1 2011-08-19 00:02:35 toffoo has quit ()
   2 2011-08-19 00:03:25 toffoo has joined
   3 2011-08-19 00:08:54 twobitcoins has quit (Quit: Leaving)
   4 2011-08-19 00:10:06 BlueMatt has joined
   5 2011-08-19 00:10:10 theorb has joined
   6 2011-08-19 00:10:26 asher^ has joined
   7 2011-08-19 00:10:41 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
   8 2011-08-19 00:10:53 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
   9 2011-08-19 00:12:23 Vladimir has quit (Quit: Page closed)
  10 2011-08-19 00:12:42 Kolky has quit (Quit: Bye bye!)
  11 2011-08-19 00:14:54 sacarlson has joined
  12 2011-08-19 00:14:57 shLONG has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  13 2011-08-19 00:15:15 twobitcoins has joined
  14 2011-08-19 00:15:17 shLONG has joined
  15 2011-08-19 00:16:19 Rabbit67890 has quit (Quit: Rabbit67890)
  16 2011-08-19 00:16:27 Rabbit67890 has joined
  17 2011-08-19 00:19:58 shadders has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  18 2011-08-19 00:20:58 Rabbit67890 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  19 2011-08-19 00:22:01 owowo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  20 2011-08-19 00:22:22 owowo has joined
  21 2011-08-19 00:23:06 TheZimm has joined
  22 2011-08-19 00:25:20 denisx has joined
  23 2011-08-19 00:27:53 shLONG has quit ()
  24 2011-08-19 00:29:40 Paas__ has joined
  25 2011-08-19 00:30:10 Gekz has joined
  26 2011-08-19 00:32:25 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-gui: Andrew Schaaf master * r70d23b8 / scripts/phone/index.js : support "?amount=1.23&address=" URLs [closes #1] - http://bit.ly/o4z2sa
  27 2011-08-19 00:33:21 jgarzik_ is now known as jgarzik
  28 2011-08-19 00:33:24 jgarzik has quit (Changing host)
  29 2011-08-19 00:33:24 jgarzik has joined
  30 2011-08-19 00:33:43 <jgarzik> whee, Amtrak tickets purchased
  31 2011-08-19 00:33:57 <jgarzik> next stop: Penn Station and bitconf
  32 2011-08-19 00:35:14 eoss has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  33 2011-08-19 00:36:11 shadders has joined
  34 2011-08-19 00:38:39 Paas__ has quit (Quit: Paas__)
  35 2011-08-19 00:41:19 osmosis has joined
  36 2011-08-19 00:41:32 anthropos has joined
  37 2011-08-19 00:43:40 Rabbit67890 has joined
  38 2011-08-19 00:45:03 Rabbit67890 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  39 2011-08-19 00:45:09 Paas__ has joined
  40 2011-08-19 00:45:14 Rabbit67890 has joined
  41 2011-08-19 00:46:25 asher^ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  42 2011-08-19 00:46:52 Ilidur1 has left ()
  43 2011-08-19 00:47:47 Rabbit67890 has quit (Client Quit)
  44 2011-08-19 00:49:36 anthropos has quit (Quit: anthropos)
  45 2011-08-19 00:49:40 eastender has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  46 2011-08-19 00:50:51 RickyC has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  47 2011-08-19 00:55:30 osmosis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  48 2011-08-19 00:58:41 zeropointo has joined
  49 2011-08-19 01:00:18 TheZimm has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  50 2011-08-19 01:02:48 Rabbit67890 has joined
  51 2011-08-19 01:05:05 Paas__ has quit (Quit: Paas__)
  52 2011-08-19 01:06:13 hahuang65_ has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  53 2011-08-19 01:11:40 asuk has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  54 2011-08-19 01:16:43 RickyC has joined
  55 2011-08-19 01:19:06 Ricky_C has joined
  56 2011-08-19 01:20:38 dvide has joined
  57 2011-08-19 01:21:38 RickyC has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  58 2011-08-19 01:24:30 TheZimm has joined
  59 2011-08-19 01:27:11 Superbest has quit (Quit: It's time to man up and end this)
  60 2011-08-19 01:32:03 danonura has joined
  61 2011-08-19 01:32:16 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  62 2011-08-19 01:44:29 Rabbit67890 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  63 2011-08-19 01:44:56 nefario1 has joined
  64 2011-08-19 01:45:03 Rabbit67890 has joined
  65 2011-08-19 01:45:28 denisx__ has joined
  66 2011-08-19 01:46:46 nefario has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  67 2011-08-19 01:47:43 denisx has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  68 2011-08-19 01:47:44 denisx__ is now known as denisx
  69 2011-08-19 01:51:19 Rabbit67890 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  70 2011-08-19 01:57:54 Rabbit67890 has joined
  71 2011-08-19 01:58:19 Rabbit67890 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  72 2011-08-19 01:59:26 SomeoneWeirdTAFE has quit (Quit: Page closed)
  73 2011-08-19 02:02:59 LightRider has quit ()
  74 2011-08-19 02:03:29 shLONG has joined
  75 2011-08-19 02:03:44 luke-jr_ is now known as luke-jr
  76 2011-08-19 02:03:49 owowo has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  77 2011-08-19 02:06:36 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * raaa2e19e0e08 cgminer/phatk110816.cl:
  78 2011-08-19 02:06:36 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Add one more instruction to avoid one branch point in the common path in the cl
  79 2011-08-19 02:06:36 <CIA-101> bitcoin: return code. Although this adds more ALUs overall and more branch points, the
  80 2011-08-19 02:06:36 <CIA-101> bitcoin: common path code has the same number of ALUs and one less jmp, jmps being more
  81 2011-08-19 02:06:36 <CIA-101> bitcoin: expensive.
  82 2011-08-19 02:06:59 nefario1 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  83 2011-08-19 02:15:36 <Diablo-D3> thaaaat cant be a good idea.
  84 2011-08-19 02:15:49 <Diablo-D3> seeing as branches are more expensive than jumps
  85 2011-08-19 02:15:50 Rabbit67890 has joined
  86 2011-08-19 02:18:30 Rabbit67890_ has joined
  87 2011-08-19 02:18:34 Rabbit67890 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  88 2011-08-19 02:18:34 Rabbit67890_ is now known as Rabbit67890
  89 2011-08-19 02:21:05 superman2016 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  90 2011-08-19 02:21:53 nefario has joined
  91 2011-08-19 02:23:33 WakiMiko_ has joined
  92 2011-08-19 02:23:53 TheZimm has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  93 2011-08-19 02:23:55 Rabbit67890 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  94 2011-08-19 02:24:49 storrgie has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  95 2011-08-19 02:24:56 Rabbit67890 has joined
  96 2011-08-19 02:26:01 WakiMiko has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  97 2011-08-19 02:27:05 MBS has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  98 2011-08-19 02:27:26 OneFixt_ has joined
  99 2011-08-19 02:27:40 OneFixt_ has quit (Changing host)
 100 2011-08-19 02:27:40 OneFixt_ has joined
 101 2011-08-19 02:28:09 OneFixt is now known as Guest28532
 102 2011-08-19 02:28:11 OneFixt_ is now known as OneFixt
 103 2011-08-19 02:28:48 Guest28532 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 104 2011-08-19 02:28:54 MBS has joined
 105 2011-08-19 02:29:20 MBS is now known as Guest90688
 106 2011-08-19 02:37:41 Rabbit67890 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 107 2011-08-19 02:40:56 MrTiggr is now known as MrTiggr_AFK
 108 2011-08-19 02:43:28 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 109 2011-08-19 02:44:36 Rozz has joined
 110 2011-08-19 02:49:49 Jefff has joined
 111 2011-08-19 02:51:47 coderrr`brb is now known as coderrr
 112 2011-08-19 02:53:09 Guest90688 is now known as MBS
 113 2011-08-19 02:53:14 MBS has quit (Changing host)
 114 2011-08-19 02:53:14 MBS has joined
 115 2011-08-19 02:54:39 eastender has joined
 116 2011-08-19 02:58:38 Rabbit67890 has joined
 117 2011-08-19 03:01:27 <zeropointo> anyone here ever try boost asio for cross platform development?
 118 2011-08-19 03:03:06 Rabbit67890 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 119 2011-08-19 03:03:13 Rabbit67890 has joined
 120 2011-08-19 03:06:41 Gekz_ has joined
 121 2011-08-19 03:06:52 Gekz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 122 2011-08-19 03:06:54 Rabbit67890 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 123 2011-08-19 03:07:01 Rabbit67890 has joined
 124 2011-08-19 03:11:16 Gekz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 125 2011-08-19 03:15:15 Tracker- is now known as Tracker
 126 2011-08-19 03:16:29 toffoo has quit ()
 127 2011-08-19 03:17:07 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: He who laughs last, thinks slowest)
 128 2011-08-19 03:17:23 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 129 2011-08-19 03:18:27 noagendamarket has joined
 130 2011-08-19 03:18:40 toffoo has joined
 131 2011-08-19 03:20:24 shLONG has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 132 2011-08-19 03:21:49 nhodges has joined
 133 2011-08-19 03:23:00 BlueMatt has joined
 134 2011-08-19 03:24:49 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
 135 2011-08-19 03:25:11 MrTiggr_AFK is now known as MrTiggr
 136 2011-08-19 03:26:10 Gekz has joined
 137 2011-08-19 03:26:16 Gekz has quit (Changing host)
 138 2011-08-19 03:26:16 Gekz has joined
 139 2011-08-19 03:26:47 Darnoth has joined
 140 2011-08-19 03:28:22 Rabbit67890 has quit (Quit: Rabbit67890)
 141 2011-08-19 03:32:56 Gekz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 142 2011-08-19 03:33:07 dub has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 143 2011-08-19 03:35:49 eastender has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 144 2011-08-19 03:37:17 jgarzik has quit (Quit: bitcon 2011)
 145 2011-08-19 03:37:40 dub has joined
 146 2011-08-19 03:39:07 DontMindMe2 has joined
 147 2011-08-19 03:39:21 nefario has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
 148 2011-08-19 03:39:27 DontMindMe has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 149 2011-08-19 03:40:56 eastender has joined
 150 2011-08-19 03:41:41 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 151 2011-08-19 03:43:41 eastender has left ()
 152 2011-08-19 03:45:06 gjs278 has joined
 153 2011-08-19 03:49:47 coderrr is now known as coderrr`brb
 154 2011-08-19 03:49:55 <diki> So, i want to ask. I currently have the idea of making an exchange like doublec's i.e a nmc<->bitcoin,i0coin<->bitcoin and so forth exchange. the problem is i have no idea about the algorithms. I.e how do you calculate the price etc
 155 2011-08-19 03:50:22 <diki> i know that the buy price must always be higher than the sell price even if it's just by one satoshi
 156 2011-08-19 03:50:28 <diki> but what is the algorithm?
 157 2011-08-19 03:53:17 jimon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 158 2011-08-19 03:56:14 coderrr`brb is now known as coderrr
 159 2011-08-19 03:56:19 <doublec> there is no price algorithm
 160 2011-08-19 03:56:33 <doublec> people list what they're buying at, others list what they're selling at
 161 2011-08-19 03:56:35 <diki> ofc there is
 162 2011-08-19 03:56:55 Rabbit67890 has joined
 163 2011-08-19 03:57:00 <diki> and the algorithm is what makes the price
 164 2011-08-19 03:57:02 <gjs278> there is no price algorithm
 165 2011-08-19 03:57:03 <gjs278> no
 166 2011-08-19 03:57:07 <gjs278> the people are what makes the price
 167 2011-08-19 03:57:11 <gjs278> you set your own price on mtgox
 168 2011-08-19 03:57:12 jimon has joined
 169 2011-08-19 03:57:13 coderrr is now known as coderrr`brb
 170 2011-08-19 03:57:15 <diki> and how do you calculate it based on that?
 171 2011-08-19 03:57:15 coderrr`brb is now known as coderrr
 172 2011-08-19 03:57:20 <gjs278> my head
 173 2011-08-19 03:57:27 <gjs278> I figure that coins might be worth $9
 174 2011-08-19 03:57:30 <gjs278> so I put them up for $9
 175 2011-08-19 03:57:43 <gjs278> if people enter buy orders for $9 then they buy my coins
 176 2011-08-19 03:57:50 <diki> erm, ok, i know the user can input any price
 177 2011-08-19 03:57:50 molecular has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 178 2011-08-19 03:57:55 <gjs278> yes
 179 2011-08-19 03:57:56 <doublec> the 'price' is just the price that the last buy/sell occured at
 180 2011-08-19 03:57:59 <gjs278> so what does the system have to do
 181 2011-08-19 03:58:02 <gjs278> besides record that
 182 2011-08-19 03:58:04 <gjs278> that's it
 183 2011-08-19 03:58:05 <coderrr> diki, please dont make an exchange
 184 2011-08-19 03:58:22 <diki> coderrr:thats like asking mtgox to stop trading
 185 2011-08-19 03:58:38 <gjs278> lol
 186 2011-08-19 03:58:38 <coderrr> no its liek asking u to not make an exchange
 187 2011-08-19 03:58:56 <doublec> no, it's like asking mtgox not to make nuclear power station software
 188 2011-08-19 03:59:14 molecular has joined
 189 2011-08-19 03:59:43 <doublec> diki: work out some orders, buys and sells on paper and you'll see how it works
 190 2011-08-19 04:01:15 <diki> doublec what is your fee?
 191 2011-08-19 04:01:24 <doublec> diki: fee for what?
 192 2011-08-19 04:01:25 nefario has joined
 193 2011-08-19 04:01:25 <diki> i am not asking so i can copy it
 194 2011-08-19 04:01:34 <diki> fee per trade
 195 2011-08-19 04:01:42 <doublec> diki: it's on the front page of the exchange
 196 2011-08-19 04:02:02 <diki> it says 0.2%
 197 2011-08-19 04:02:09 <diki> i honestly dont know what that is in satoshis
 198 2011-08-19 04:02:16 <doublec> it's a percentage
 199 2011-08-19 04:02:25 <doublec> therefore it's not measured in satoshis
 200 2011-08-19 04:02:38 <diki> convert it to bitcoins then
 201 2011-08-19 04:02:45 <doublec> are you trolling?
 202 2011-08-19 04:02:49 <diki> i am not
 203 2011-08-19 04:02:55 <doublec> I can't conceive of why that question would be asked
 204 2011-08-19 04:03:02 <diki> i have no idea what 0.2% of XX price is
 205 2011-08-19 04:03:16 <gjs278> diki you noob
 206 2011-08-19 04:03:21 <gjs278> I will fire a rocketlauncher at you
 207 2011-08-19 04:04:08 <diki> is 0.2% 0.002 per ?coin trade?
 208 2011-08-19 04:05:24 <diki> or is it 0.02?
 209 2011-08-19 04:05:53 <doublec> it is 0.2%
 210 2011-08-19 04:06:00 <diki> that tells me nothing really
 211 2011-08-19 04:06:11 <diki> how much ?coins are taken from the balance per trade?
 212 2011-08-19 04:06:15 <diki> that is what i am asking
 213 2011-08-19 04:06:18 <doublec> 0.2%
 214 2011-08-19 04:07:28 <diki> so basically if 200 ?coins are traded, then 0.2% fee of them coins will be taken from the balance?
 215 2011-08-19 04:07:41 <diki> which means if it was 1 coin then 0.2% of that single coin>
 216 2011-08-19 04:08:03 <doublec> yes
 217 2011-08-19 04:08:25 <diki> so the higher coins per trade, the more you take, tho still 0.2%
 218 2011-08-19 04:09:04 <diki> but even if you traded in small amounts, in the long run you still take the same amount as you would with more coins per trade
 219 2011-08-19 04:10:15 <doublec> right
 220 2011-08-19 04:10:46 <diki> Ok, what would happen to an exchange if there were no fees at all. I mean apart from the exchange not earning at all, would it affect the trading in some way?
 221 2011-08-19 04:11:01 <diki> would it be abused somehow?
 222 2011-08-19 04:11:19 <doublec> there are exchanges out there with no fees
 223 2011-08-19 04:11:23 <doublec> eg. intersango.us
 224 2011-08-19 04:11:42 <diki> this intersango.us is just like britcoin
 225 2011-08-19 04:12:23 <doublec> it uses the same software
 226 2011-08-19 04:12:31 <doublec> it's open source
 227 2011-08-19 04:13:00 <diki> Ok, so how do you keep the buy price higher than the sell price?
 228 2011-08-19 04:13:11 <diki> even if it's by 0.0000001 higher than sell
 229 2011-08-19 04:13:42 <doublec> the buy won't be higher than the sell, because if it was, the sell would be sold
 230 2011-08-19 04:14:11 <diki> hmm? but on any exchange the sell price is always lower than the buy price
 231 2011-08-19 04:14:24 <diki> i.e buying a bitcoin is 10.96 but selling a bitcoin is 10.90 per coin
 232 2011-08-19 04:15:08 <doublec> perhaps our terminology is different
 233 2011-08-19 04:15:30 <noagendamarket> if theres no fee youd get bots trading
 234 2011-08-19 04:15:59 <diki> people like no fee stuff
 235 2011-08-19 04:16:22 <doublec> by "buy" i refer to 'buy orders' from exchange users
 236 2011-08-19 04:16:32 <doublec> and "sell" i refer to 'sell orders' from exchange users
 237 2011-08-19 04:16:33 <diki> oh, so your buy is actually sell
 238 2011-08-19 04:17:14 <diki> yes, this terminology  is confusing
 239 2011-08-19 04:17:24 <diki> in fact, the mtgox ticker is the same way
 240 2011-08-19 04:18:15 <doublec> your thinking of a "money exchange" i think that doesn't match orders from users
 241 2011-08-19 04:18:20 <doublec> but rather buys/sells itself
 242 2011-08-19 04:19:02 <diki> no i am not thinking of a money exchange
 243 2011-08-19 04:19:09 <diki> simply ?coin trading
 244 2011-08-19 04:19:14 <doublec> in that case the price the user buy scurrency at will be higher than that which they can sell currency at
 245 2011-08-19 04:19:18 <diki> no ?coin for <fiat> currency
 246 2011-08-19 04:20:03 DontMindMe2 has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
 247 2011-08-19 04:20:17 <diki> so if this intersango is open source, i can use it's "engine" right?
 248 2011-08-19 04:20:43 <doublec> depending on the license. I don't know what it is.
 249 2011-08-19 04:21:48 <diki> so, should i assume you've made like >100btc per 100k trades on any of the exchanges?
 250 2011-08-19 04:25:58 <doublec> nope
 251 2011-08-19 04:26:06 <doublec> the i0 exchange made 3btc
 252 2011-08-19 04:26:37 <diki> something doesnt sound right
 253 2011-08-19 04:26:44 <doublec> that would be your maths
 254 2011-08-19 04:27:14 <diki> so, if there were 100k trades, each with 10k coins, only then would you have made >3btc?
 255 2011-08-19 04:28:09 <doublec> let's say 100,000 coins are traded. At 0.003 btc per coin. That's 300 btc.
 256 2011-08-19 04:28:22 <doublec> 0.2% of that is 0.6 btc
 257 2011-08-19 04:29:05 <diki> please do share how you calculate that with the percentage
 258 2011-08-19 04:29:10 <diki> its always been a mystery to me
 259 2011-08-19 04:29:11 <doublec> I just did
 260 2011-08-19 04:29:34 <diki> i know that 50% of 100k is 50k
 261 2011-08-19 04:29:40 <diki> as for 0.2% i have no clue
 262 2011-08-19 04:30:01 <doublec> divide the percentage by 100
 263 2011-08-19 04:30:06 Gekz has joined
 264 2011-08-19 04:30:10 <doublec> so 100,000 * (50 / 100) = 50,000
 265 2011-08-19 04:30:26 <doublec> so 300 * (0.2 / 100) = 0.6
 266 2011-08-19 04:33:09 <doublec> diki: makes sense now?
 267 2011-08-19 04:33:17 <diki> well, this is what happens when you have ADD and dont pay attention in math class
 268 2011-08-19 04:33:28 <diki> add=attention deficit disorder
 269 2011-08-19 04:35:11 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 270 2011-08-19 04:35:32 agricocb has joined
 271 2011-08-19 04:37:26 <noagendamarket> please dont start an exchange if you dont know how
 272 2011-08-19 04:37:43 <diki> this is why i am learning
 273 2011-08-19 04:37:48 <diki> i believe there is a saying
 274 2011-08-19 04:37:50 <noagendamarket> weve had enough "weekend projects"
 275 2011-08-19 04:37:51 <diki> no one is born taught
 276 2011-08-19 04:38:05 <noagendamarket> mybitcoin
 277 2011-08-19 04:38:24 <diki> myb0tfailcoin is not of my concern
 278 2011-08-19 04:38:35 <diki> that guy waited for 1 confirm
 279 2011-08-19 04:38:45 SomeoneWeirdTAFE has joined
 280 2011-08-19 04:38:55 <diki> in fact, he prolly didnt even wait for a confirm(who knows)
 281 2011-08-19 04:39:49 Rabbit67890_ has joined
 282 2011-08-19 04:43:26 RazielZ has joined
 283 2011-08-19 04:43:47 Rabbit67890 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 284 2011-08-19 04:43:48 Rabbit67890_ is now known as Rabbit67890
 285 2011-08-19 04:44:21 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-gui: Stefan Thomas master * rc6040d5 / (scripts/phone/index.js stylesheets/phone/style.css): Added welcome screen. - http://bit.ly/ntkknu
 286 2011-08-19 04:46:33 cypherpunk01 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 287 2011-08-19 04:46:38 <CIA-101> libbitcoin: genjix * r9f2c3f944b09 /doc/reorganize.py: Added Python reference implementation of block chain reorganizer for postgresql_storage module.
 288 2011-08-19 04:46:39 <CIA-101> libbitcoin: genjix * rdfea87570170 / (examples/poller.cpp src/storage/postgresql_storage.cpp): BUGFIX: LOL service was calling itself recursively forever XD
 289 2011-08-19 04:52:02 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 290 2011-08-19 04:52:51 imsaguy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 291 2011-08-19 04:53:14 sgornick has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 292 2011-08-19 04:55:02 imsaguy has joined
 293 2011-08-19 04:55:02 imsaguy has quit (Changing host)
 294 2011-08-19 04:55:02 imsaguy has joined
 295 2011-08-19 04:56:58 d33tah has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 296 2011-08-19 04:57:35 ForceMajeure has joined
 297 2011-08-19 04:59:26 flok has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
 298 2011-08-19 04:59:55 flok has joined
 299 2011-08-19 05:00:58 d33tah has joined
 300 2011-08-19 05:02:30 noagendamarket has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 301 2011-08-19 05:02:53 noagendamarket has joined
 302 2011-08-19 05:04:08 c00w has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 303 2011-08-19 05:11:06 sgornick has joined
 304 2011-08-19 05:12:42 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 305 2011-08-19 05:14:16 agricocb has joined
 306 2011-08-19 05:17:52 <vsrinivas> when does a client rebroadcast a transaction?
 307 2011-08-19 05:21:14 SomeoneWeirdTAFE has quit (Disconnected by services)
 308 2011-08-19 05:21:43 nefario has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 309 2011-08-19 05:25:09 eian has joined
 310 2011-08-19 05:25:09 <sgornick> vsrinivas: it is a random interval ... can be a half hour, sometimes more even.
 311 2011-08-19 05:35:32 nefario has joined
 312 2011-08-19 05:36:35 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
 313 2011-08-19 05:37:57 Folklore has joined
 314 2011-08-19 05:38:39 brunner has joined
 315 2011-08-19 05:42:51 RazielZ has joined
 316 2011-08-19 05:44:26 rlifchitz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 317 2011-08-19 05:44:39 larsivi has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 318 2011-08-19 05:44:53 gim has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 319 2011-08-19 05:51:11 log0s has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 320 2011-08-19 05:52:13 snooplsm has quit (Quit: snooplsm)
 321 2011-08-19 05:53:15 log0s has joined
 322 2011-08-19 05:53:54 <shadders> pushpool rewrites difficulty to :7fffff0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 323 2011-08-19 05:54:42 <shadders> slush pool rewrites to : ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff00000000
 324 2011-08-19 05:55:15 <neofutur> which means one of them is easyer ?
 325 2011-08-19 05:55:21 <shadders> anyone know why slush uses a lower difficulty?
 326 2011-08-19 05:55:55 <shadders> I put slush difficulty into poolserverj because I incorrectly asssumed it was difficulty 1
 327 2011-08-19 05:56:55 <shadders> neofutur: slush's should be easier... it's a higher target, easir to get a hash below it
 328 2011-08-19 05:57:22 clr_ has joined
 329 2011-08-19 05:57:58 clr_ is now known as c00w
 330 2011-08-19 06:00:37 <neofutur> thanks for the news, interesting
 331 2011-08-19 06:01:14 <neofutur> a good column to add on https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Comparison_of_mining_pools
 332 2011-08-19 06:01:56 <neofutur> how do you find this info for other pools ?
 333 2011-08-19 06:05:11 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 334 2011-08-19 06:05:17 <shadders> send a getwork request and look at the response "target" field
 335 2011-08-19 06:06:58 <imsaguy> shadders, the lower difficulty means slower clients can still do 'shares'
 336 2011-08-19 06:07:27 <imsaguy> eventually one of the easier difficulty hashes will be enough to qualify as a current difficulty hash
 337 2011-08-19 06:08:24 abragin has joined
 338 2011-08-19 06:08:29 <shadders> it would be increasing his server load massively
 339 2011-08-19 06:08:44 <luke-jr> shadders: gosh, should you be writing a pool server when you don't know these basics? XD
 340 2011-08-19 06:08:53 gjs278 has joined
 341 2011-08-19 06:08:55 <luke-jr> but pushpool uses ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff00000000 too fwiw
 342 2011-08-19 06:09:15 <imsaguy> lol
 343 2011-08-19 06:09:22 <imsaguy> yeah, he'll be dealing with a lot of hashes
 344 2011-08-19 06:09:30 <imsaguy> but thats what allows slower machines to participate
 345 2011-08-19 06:09:45 <imsaguy> you're missing the very premise of it.
 346 2011-08-19 06:09:49 log0s has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 347 2011-08-19 06:09:59 <shadders> sorry, will go study... maybe while I'm away you can make pushpool a bit faster :p
 348 2011-08-19 06:10:32 log0s has joined
 349 2011-08-19 06:11:39 <shadders> yes I get that...  just wondering why they are diffeent...
 350 2011-08-19 06:11:56 <shadders> luke-jr: this is from pushpool: {"id":1,"error":null,"result":{"midstate":"126a76e126f390b90611962782af8a342c5796a881b23b20b59ae7f0f857c533","target":"7fffff0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000","data":"0000000113389092f6e837be3a6dc96c0cc78abffe11f9c9ff4f57a6000007010000000060ceb36a8b15b2f428d49264b6f0f8ab3739a2559044248f46579be3e3ad11404e4df8601a094a86000000000000008000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 351 2011-08-19 06:11:56 <shadders> 00000000000000000000000000000000080020000","hash1":"00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000008000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000010000"}}
 352 2011-08-19 06:12:24 <luke-jr> shadders: you misconfigured pushpool I bet then
 353 2011-08-19 06:13:16 <shadders> # rewrite returned 'target' to difficulty-1?
 354 2011-08-19 06:13:17 <shadders> 	"rpc.target.rewrite" : true,
 355 2011-08-19 06:13:54 <shadders> other than that it's stock 0.5.1 with JK's 0.99patch
 356 2011-08-19 06:15:27 <shadders> luke-jr: what have I done wrong?
 357 2011-08-19 06:16:06 <luke-jr> JoelKatz seems annoying; why can't he make proper branches and send pull reqs
 358 2011-08-19 06:16:33 <luke-jr> probably something in his patch
 359 2011-08-19 06:16:33 <shadders> sorry not with JK's patch... that was for bitcoind..
 360 2011-08-19 06:16:38 <luke-jr> o
 361 2011-08-19 06:16:48 <luke-jr> no idea what you're doing wrong then
 362 2011-08-19 06:16:58 <luke-jr> that target you're giving is basically impossibl
 363 2011-08-19 06:17:31 <shadders> that's difficulty 1
 364 2011-08-19 06:17:39 <luke-jr> nope
 365 2011-08-19 06:17:41 <shadders> according to https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Target
 366 2011-08-19 06:18:32 <luke-jr> diff1 = 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000ffff000000000000
 367 2011-08-19 06:18:33 Cablesaurus has joined
 368 2011-08-19 06:18:33 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
 369 2011-08-19 06:18:33 Cablesaurus has joined
 370 2011-08-19 06:19:00 WildSoil has joined
 371 2011-08-19 06:20:04 <shadders> sorry yr gight it was a messed up version of pp... too many versions installed, lose track of which one I'm using
 372 2011-08-19 06:21:12 Gekz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 373 2011-08-19 06:21:16 Gekz has joined
 374 2011-08-19 06:21:47 Cablesaurus has quit (Client Quit)
 375 2011-08-19 06:22:27 <shadders> no wonder I buggered up the basics when I'm learning of a wiki that's wrong!
 376 2011-08-19 06:22:51 <luke-jr> wiki isn't wrong, just big endian
 377 2011-08-19 06:23:06 <shadders> oh ffs
 378 2011-08-19 06:24:33 Cablesaurus has joined
 379 2011-08-19 06:24:33 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
 380 2011-08-19 06:24:33 Cablesaurus has joined
 381 2011-08-19 06:25:03 Cablesaurus has quit (Client Quit)
 382 2011-08-19 06:25:25 Gekz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 383 2011-08-19 06:25:28 Cablesaurus has joined
 384 2011-08-19 06:25:28 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
 385 2011-08-19 06:25:28 Cablesaurus has joined
 386 2011-08-19 06:28:47 E-sense has quit (Quit: System.exit(0);)
 387 2011-08-19 06:30:16 <shadders> so is ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff00000000
 388 2011-08-19 06:30:28 <shadders> little endian then?
 389 2011-08-19 06:30:34 <luke-jr> no, it's big endian
 390 2011-08-19 06:30:39 <luke-jr> wait
 391 2011-08-19 06:30:50 <luke-jr> no
 392 2011-08-19 06:30:53 <luke-jr> that's little endian, right
 393 2011-08-19 06:31:18 huk has quit ()
 394 2011-08-19 06:31:19 <luke-jr> it's also the mixed-endian used in getwork requests
 395 2011-08-19 06:31:37 <shadders> you're messing with my head now... I'm gonna ask satoshi
 396 2011-08-19 06:31:45 <luke-jr> diff1 LE = 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000ffff00000000
 397 2011-08-19 06:31:54 <luke-jr> diff1 xE = 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000ffff000000000000\
 398 2011-08-19 06:32:04 <luke-jr> diff1 BE = 00000000ffff0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 399 2011-08-19 06:32:19 Akinava is now known as away!~lis@babylon.saf-14.ru|Akinava
 400 2011-08-19 06:32:21 <luke-jr> shadders: lol
 401 2011-08-19 06:32:50 <shadders> do I even wanna know.. what? x endian?
 402 2011-08-19 06:33:12 <luke-jr> miXed endian
 403 2011-08-19 06:33:15 <luke-jr> used by getworks
 404 2011-08-19 06:33:56 <luke-jr> mixed endian = …89abcdef01234567
 405 2011-08-19 06:34:43 <shadders> wtf???
 406 2011-08-19 06:35:09 Gekz has joined
 407 2011-08-19 06:35:11 <shadders> I seriously nearly gave up the psj project when I cam across all this endian shite...
 408 2011-08-19 06:35:29 <luke-jr> :D
 409 2011-08-19 06:35:50 <shadders> I still don't know what benefit there is to it...
 410 2011-08-19 06:36:09 <luke-jr> none whatsoever
 411 2011-08-19 06:36:25 <shadders> so why not pick one and stick to it?
 412 2011-08-19 06:37:52 <luke-jr> because Satoshi likes to piss people off with random crap
 413 2011-08-19 06:37:53 <erska> to make a compromise between the two, so that the other endianness does not feel rejected and lonely ;)
 414 2011-08-19 06:39:33 Rabbit67890 has quit (Quit: Rabbit67890)
 415 2011-08-19 06:40:56 <shadders> probably why he pissed off... was afraid some programmer was going to lose the plot trying to deal with endians and try to kill him.
 416 2011-08-19 06:41:27 <luke-jr> lol
 417 2011-08-19 06:41:54 <luke-jr> he probably had a nice long todo list of bugs he found and was gonna fix before doing the real thing
 418 2011-08-19 06:41:59 <luke-jr> and realized it was too late
 419 2011-08-19 06:42:41 <shadders> "Numerous other orderings, generically called middle-endian or mixed-endian, are possible. On the PDP-11 (16-bit little-endian) for example, the compiler stored 32-bit values with the 16-bit halves swapped from the expected little-endian order. This ordering is known as PDP-endian."
 420 2011-08-19 06:43:15 asuk has joined
 421 2011-08-19 06:43:48 <shadders> words fail me... ok so what's the definition of the mixed endian bitcoin uses?  or, let me guess... there's a few of them
 422 2011-08-19 06:45:19 <luke-jr> shadders: overall little-endian split into 32-bit big-endian chunks
 423 2011-08-19 06:45:39 <shadders> there should be victim support group for this
 424 2011-08-19 06:45:47 <shadders> yr it luke-jr
 425 2011-08-19 06:46:02 <luke-jr> I torture my victims.
 426 2011-08-19 06:46:12 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 427 2011-08-19 06:46:56 <cjdelisle> so 8 little endian integers which themselves are arranged in big endian order?
 428 2011-08-19 06:50:03 <shadders> so... FFAA0000 LE should be 0000FFAA or 0000AAFF in xE?
 429 2011-08-19 06:50:40 HarryS has quit (Quit: Äddi)
 430 2011-08-19 06:51:37 <luke-jr> 0000AAFF I think
 431 2011-08-19 06:51:49 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: you have the endians backward there
 432 2011-08-19 06:52:00 zamgo has joined
 433 2011-08-19 06:52:03 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: the 32-bit blocks are big-endian; they are arranged in little-endian
 434 2011-08-19 06:52:13 <cjdelisle> ahh ok
 435 2011-08-19 06:52:24 Rabbit67890 has joined
 436 2011-08-19 06:52:29 <cjdelisle> must have been because ntohl() was easy to use? o_O
 437 2011-08-19 06:52:43 Rabbit67890 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 438 2011-08-19 06:52:49 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: NFC why
 439 2011-08-19 06:52:51 Rabbit67890 has joined
 440 2011-08-19 06:52:55 <luke-jr> someone must have been drunk or something
 441 2011-08-19 06:53:00 <cjdelisle> heh
 442 2011-08-19 06:53:02 Rabbit67890_ has joined
 443 2011-08-19 06:53:12 Rabbit67890_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 444 2011-08-19 06:53:22 Rabbit67890_ has joined
 445 2011-08-19 06:55:55 <shadders> well that must be why my share validation is broken.. parsing ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff00000000 as big-endian
 446 2011-08-19 06:56:11 HarryS has joined
 447 2011-08-19 06:57:08 Rabbit67890 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 448 2011-08-19 06:57:09 Rabbit67890_ is now known as Rabbit67890
 449 2011-08-19 07:04:35 shadders has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 450 2011-08-19 07:07:42 hugolp has joined
 451 2011-08-19 07:08:55 Rabbit67890_ has joined
 452 2011-08-19 07:10:38 gwillen has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 453 2011-08-19 07:10:49 gwillen has joined
 454 2011-08-19 07:10:50 gwillen has quit (Changing host)
 455 2011-08-19 07:10:50 gwillen has joined
 456 2011-08-19 07:10:56 rlifchitz has joined
 457 2011-08-19 07:10:57 rlifchitz has quit (Changing host)
 458 2011-08-19 07:10:57 rlifchitz has joined
 459 2011-08-19 07:13:12 Rabbit67890 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 460 2011-08-19 07:13:13 Rabbit67890_ is now known as Rabbit67890
 461 2011-08-19 07:14:58 larsivi has joined
 462 2011-08-19 07:26:52 Rabbit67890 has quit (Quit: Rabbit67890)
 463 2011-08-19 07:27:14 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 464 2011-08-19 07:27:53 molecular has joined
 465 2011-08-19 07:33:32 markus_w1nner has quit (Quit: leaving)
 466 2011-08-19 07:33:38 markus_wanner has joined
 467 2011-08-19 07:36:36 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * rbd79a61c439c cgminer/ (findnonce.h poclbm110816.cl): Move poclbm to new branch optimisation as well.
 468 2011-08-19 07:36:46 SomeoneWeird has joined
 469 2011-08-19 07:37:42 c00w has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 470 2011-08-19 07:42:50 KenArmitt has joined
 471 2011-08-19 07:49:58 ThomasV has joined
 472 2011-08-19 07:52:10 zamgo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 473 2011-08-19 07:52:22 nr9 has joined
 474 2011-08-19 07:53:12 Clipse has quit (Quit: Clipse)
 475 2011-08-19 07:55:43 Clipse has joined
 476 2011-08-19 08:00:37 SomeoneWeird has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 477 2011-08-19 08:04:08 nefario has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 478 2011-08-19 08:08:14 AStove has joined
 479 2011-08-19 08:14:48 Delme has joined
 480 2011-08-19 08:17:48 shadders has joined
 481 2011-08-19 08:20:56 d1g1t4l has joined
 482 2011-08-19 08:25:32 <Delme> Anyone seen conman around?
 483 2011-08-19 08:28:20 shadders has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 484 2011-08-19 08:28:38 ephcon has joined
 485 2011-08-19 08:41:46 shadders has joined
 486 2011-08-19 08:42:18 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 487 2011-08-19 08:42:51 TheAncientGoat has joined
 488 2011-08-19 08:48:46 larsivi has joined
 489 2011-08-19 08:49:19 <Graet> Delme i do often either in -mining or #ozcoin
 490 2011-08-19 08:56:13 asher^ has joined
 491 2011-08-19 08:56:17 asher^ has quit (Changing host)
 492 2011-08-19 08:56:17 asher^ has joined
 493 2011-08-19 08:59:16 KenArmitt has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 494 2011-08-19 08:59:25 KenArmitt has joined
 495 2011-08-19 08:59:34 <shadders> luke-jr:  endian swap algo... take last n bytes put at start of new string in same order.  append previous n bytes from source string to new string etc...
 496 2011-08-19 08:59:43 <shadders> that right?
 497 2011-08-19 09:00:26 <vegard> that sounds horrible :-S
 498 2011-08-19 09:00:34 log0s has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 499 2011-08-19 09:01:07 vragnaroda has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 500 2011-08-19 09:01:23 <shadders> if so n for target is 16 bits to turn diff1 LE into diff1 BE?
 501 2011-08-19 09:01:34 <shadders> vegard: it is horrible
 502 2011-08-19 09:01:43 log0s has joined
 503 2011-08-19 09:02:19 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 504 2011-08-19 09:02:39 <shadders> I thought was supposed to be 32
 505 2011-08-19 09:04:33 zamgo has joined
 506 2011-08-19 09:10:24 toffoo has quit ()
 507 2011-08-19 09:10:29 <lfm> life the universe and everything minus 10?
 508 2011-08-19 09:10:50 <shadders> exactly...
 509 2011-08-19 09:11:29 <shadders> The only other way I can think to turn diff1 LE into diff1 BE with 32bit chunk size is:
 510 2011-08-19 09:11:53 <lfm> whats diff1?
 511 2011-08-19 09:12:30 <shadders> take last n byte, reverse and append to new string, repeat for previous n bytes etc... but you're just reversing the string
 512 2011-08-19 09:13:01 <shadders> <luke-jr> diff1 LE = 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000ffff00000000
 513 2011-08-19 09:13:01 <shadders> <luke-jr> diff1 xE = 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000ffff000000000000\
 514 2011-08-19 09:13:01 <shadders> <luke-jr> diff1 BE = 00000000ffff0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 515 2011-08-19 09:14:07 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 516 2011-08-19 09:14:15 <lfm> ya not enuf info, try a different example. what is this from? is it like the target from getwork?
 517 2011-08-19 09:14:29 <shadders> yes
 518 2011-08-19 09:15:02 <lfm> ok current traget from bitcoind getwork is :
 519 2011-08-19 09:15:04 <lfm>     "target" : "0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000864a09000000000000"
 520 2011-08-19 09:15:18 <shadders> It's an infuriating example because of the char being grouped in blocks of 4 identicals... can't see if they're reversed or not
 521 2011-08-19 09:15:37 jrmithdobbs has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 522 2011-08-19 09:16:29 <lfm> as a proper hexadecimal number it would be 00000000000094a860000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 523 2011-08-19 09:16:47 sgornick has joined
 524 2011-08-19 09:16:54 <lfm> does that help?
 525 2011-08-19 09:17:18 <shadders> yep coz now I can actually see what's changed...
 526 2011-08-19 09:17:24 <shadders> thx...
 527 2011-08-19 09:17:55 <lfm> I maybe have the wrong number of zeros there somewhere
 528 2011-08-19 09:19:05 <lfm> so ya, convert it to bytes and swap the bytes individulally end for end
 529 2011-08-19 09:20:54 <shadders> abcdef -> efcdab?
 530 2011-08-19 09:21:37 zamgo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 531 2011-08-19 09:22:05 <lfm> abcdefgh -> ghefcdab ya
 532 2011-08-19 09:22:19 <lfm> there should be an even number of bytes
 533 2011-08-19 09:23:02 <asher^> i find it easier converting to bin then just reversing and converting back
 534 2011-08-19 09:23:11 <lfm> prolly ya
 535 2011-08-19 09:23:42 <asher^> otherwise you have to write up a function to split it into 2 character chunks
 536 2011-08-19 09:24:05 <lfm> the nasty thing is there may be some different byteswap orders needed in some places, for stuff other than targets
 537 2011-08-19 09:24:11 <shadders> it look like each byte has just had it's 4bit halves swapped
 538 2011-08-19 09:24:37 <lfm> shadders: nope the bytes do not have their haves swapped. the bytes remain as is
 539 2011-08-19 09:24:48 <lfm> just the order of the bytyes changed
 540 2011-08-19 09:24:50 <asher^> i was struggling with this the other day for getworks. got some help from the guys here and eventually got it working
 541 2011-08-19 09:25:01 <shadders> #bitcoin-endian-victim-support
 542 2011-08-19 09:25:07 <lfm> hehe
 543 2011-08-19 09:25:17 <asher^> for some reason the previous hash in a block header is LE but the rest is BE
 544 2011-08-19 09:25:20 <asher^> confusing as hell
 545 2011-08-19 09:25:26 <asher^> for someone like me, anyway
 546 2011-08-19 09:25:45 <shadders> oh yeah... brain-hurt
 547 2011-08-19 09:26:15 <asher^> i was just writing a function to do a hash
 548 2011-08-19 09:26:16 <shadders> When I was in my 20s this wouldn't have been a problem.
 549 2011-08-19 09:26:22 <asher^> took me like 90 minutes
 550 2011-08-19 09:26:26 <shadders> These days brain is a bit slower
 551 2011-08-19 09:26:44 <asher^> for what is essentially bout 6 lines of code
 552 2011-08-19 09:27:06 <lfm> ya getwork does some nutty byteswapping cuz they think its helpping but its really not. It allowed some of the old sha256 to work directly with the data. most of bitcoin is littleendian but sha256 is bigendian standard.
 553 2011-08-19 09:27:19 <shadders> tell me about it... I spent the best part of day trying to turn solution string into a parseable byte array for bitcoinj
 554 2011-08-19 09:27:47 <asher^> im glad i have it done now though
 555 2011-08-19 09:28:03 <asher^> there are versions of the algorithm in a couple of languages on the board, but i was doing it in php
 556 2011-08-19 09:28:14 <shadders> In the end my solution was... Write a script to iterate through every possible variation of byte swaps, reverses, offsets etc... until one came out that matched the input string...
 557 2011-08-19 09:28:41 <asher^> its simple once you know how, as long as you dont think about it
 558 2011-08-19 09:28:50 <asher^> when you start thinking about it you get confused as hell
 559 2011-08-19 09:28:55 <lfm> hehe shadders, sorry bout that. there are a few people who have been thru this that should have been able to help you
 560 2011-08-19 09:29:23 <shadders> was before I found irc...
 561 2011-08-19 09:30:00 <shadders> is ok.. my algo found me the right algo in the end... I just had nfi why it worked, just that it did...
 562 2011-08-19 09:30:02 log0s has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 563 2011-08-19 09:31:17 <asher^> yeah same here
 564 2011-08-19 09:31:28 <asher^> i still dont understand why the stuff is swapped how it is
 565 2011-08-19 09:31:30 jrmithdobbs has joined
 566 2011-08-19 09:32:24 <lfm> asher^ do you know how sha256 internals use 32 bit adds? It uses the data in big endian order. Thats kinda the orginal reason
 567 2011-08-19 09:32:52 <asher^> yeah i figured it was to do with that
 568 2011-08-19 09:33:15 <asher^> but the chopping up of the 32b parts of the block header and reversing the parts confused me
 569 2011-08-19 09:33:32 slush has joined
 570 2011-08-19 09:34:19 <lfm> asher^ then you do about 6 months of open source people optimizing the miner in bitcoind and you get a stripped down sha256 that tries to avoid some of the byte swapping since it does 2 sha256 ops, you get the picture?
 571 2011-08-19 09:35:22 <lfm> ie you don't really have much hope of ever following all the rationalization ...
 572 2011-08-19 09:35:32 <asher^> yeah i just accept it :)
 573 2011-08-19 09:36:01 <shadders> lfm how well document is the bitcoin code?  never had more than passing glance since I'm not a C programmer
 574 2011-08-19 09:36:42 <lfm> well even C programmers have been known to throw up their hands at the code since it does a LOT of C++ stuuf! grin
 575 2011-08-19 09:36:56 gjs278 has joined
 576 2011-08-19 09:37:05 log0s has joined
 577 2011-08-19 09:37:14 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 578 2011-08-19 09:37:54 sgornick has joined
 579 2011-08-19 09:38:18 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 580 2011-08-19 09:38:23 <lfm> seriously tho, it could still be a lot worse. there is someplaces where you follow it thru and are amazed the Satoshi figured it out 2.5 years ago or more and its still working rather well really
 581 2011-08-19 09:45:31 <lfm> shadders: so Id say the code is not really very well documented but the code itself is generally quite good and clear that you can read it if you are pretty well up to speed with C and C++ (not just C)
 582 2011-08-19 09:50:34 <UukGoblin> more importantly, it works
 583 2011-08-19 09:50:53 <UukGoblin> after a year without much of satoshi's intervention
 584 2011-08-19 09:51:56 <lfm> I think that that has not been generally accepted as a sole arbiter of good code since the "structured programming" paradyme was adopted back in the '70s
 585 2011-08-19 09:52:59 <UukGoblin> oh, you're talking about the code itself... sorry I kinda jumped on the discussion
 586 2011-08-19 09:53:29 <UukGoblin> shadders, read up about self-documenting code ;-]
 587 2011-08-19 09:54:00 <lfm> true the fact that we are still working with his base code and havn't just thrown it out for a new start is a testament to the quality of the orginal
 588 2011-08-19 09:54:22 <UukGoblin> quality or complexity, actually
 589 2011-08-19 09:54:27 <cacheson> lfm: not necessarily
 590 2011-08-19 09:54:30 <lfm> both maybe
 591 2011-08-19 09:54:42 <shadders> UukGoblin that's why java identifiers are usually half a page long.
 592 2011-08-19 09:54:51 <UukGoblin> genjix for instance decided to start from scratch
 593 2011-08-19 09:55:04 <cacheson> lfm: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html
 594 2011-08-19 09:55:16 <cacheson> tl;dr: never start over
 595 2011-08-19 09:55:28 malaimo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 596 2011-08-19 09:55:40 <lfm> ya there are projects to start over fresh but they are not central yet Id say
 597 2011-08-19 09:55:53 <someone42> part of genjix' motivation may have been to avoid centralisation
 598 2011-08-19 09:55:54 <UukGoblin> shadders, yes; however, I don't believe longer is better ;-]
 599 2011-08-19 09:56:27 <lfm> I gotta go, till later, bye
 600 2011-08-19 09:56:30 <shadders> I know, some (most) go way overboard...
 601 2011-08-19 09:56:34 <shadders> cya
 602 2011-08-19 09:57:28 <shadders> it is easy to read as long as you've got 2 24" widescreens and split yr IDE across both
 603 2011-08-19 10:02:20 datagutt has joined
 604 2011-08-19 10:03:33 xelister has joined
 605 2011-08-19 10:08:09 <xelister> how many hashes it takes avg. to find block at difficulty 1?
 606 2011-08-19 10:10:01 <xelister> 2^48/65535 = 4295032833?
 607 2011-08-19 10:10:16 <UukGoblin> xelister, yup, that's correct
 608 2011-08-19 10:10:34 hugolp has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 609 2011-08-19 10:10:49 <UukGoblin> xelister, I've just looked up my scratchpad notes, and the way to get there was different, but the result is the same
 610 2011-08-19 10:11:00 <xelister> k
 611 2011-08-19 10:11:33 hugolp has joined
 612 2011-08-19 10:22:40 <shadders> still muddled...
 613 2011-08-19 10:22:51 <shadders> diff 1 is: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000ffff00000000
 614 2011-08-19 10:22:55 <shadders> little endian...
 615 2011-08-19 10:23:12 <xelister> shadders: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Difficulty
 616 2011-08-19 10:23:12 <shadders> pool target is: ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff00000000
 617 2011-08-19 10:23:32 <shadders> in theory because diff 1 is too hard for slow miners...
 618 2011-08-19 10:24:01 <shadders> but as I calculate it the pool target is diff: 0.9999847412109375
 619 2011-08-19 10:24:21 <asher^> that sounds about right
 620 2011-08-19 10:24:51 <asher^> theres little difference between the two
 621 2011-08-19 10:24:53 <shadders> so how can we then say that slow miners are going to get more shares...
 622 2011-08-19 10:25:15 <shadders> slightly more... a fraction of a percent...
 623 2011-08-19 10:25:25 <asher^> its a tiny difference
 624 2011-08-19 10:25:29 <shadders> but not so anyone would notice...
 625 2011-08-19 10:25:33 <asher^> why do you want to change it?>
 626 2011-08-19 10:27:17 <shadders> I don't but I was told before that it actually makes a difference... I think I was mistold...
 627 2011-08-19 10:27:54 <shadders> unless I've messed up the calc somehow...
 628 2011-08-19 10:28:09 <asher^> you could make it easier if you wanted, but it would just up the server load
 629 2011-08-19 10:28:49 <shadders> don't want to change it... just trying understand why the pools changed it from diff 1 in the first place
 630 2011-08-19 10:32:06 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
 631 2011-08-19 10:33:15 <UukGoblin> at least 6MW is being spent for bitcoin mining... hrm...
 632 2011-08-19 10:35:35 <shadders> about 20,000 australian homes worth...
 633 2011-08-19 10:35:53 <shadders> mind you we do suck a lot of juice...
 634 2011-08-19 10:36:17 <UukGoblin> 0.3kW per home?
 635 2011-08-19 10:36:26 * UukGoblin was using ~1kW before starting to mine
 636 2011-08-19 10:37:13 AStove has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 637 2011-08-19 10:38:18 <shadders> I use about 50kwhrs/day but my bills are twice the average...
 638 2011-08-19 10:38:34 <shadders> so 1kw/home... 6000 homes
 639 2011-08-19 10:38:56 hugolp has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 640 2011-08-19 10:39:34 <UukGoblin> kWh/day... I don't like that unit ;-P that's ~2kW
 641 2011-08-19 10:40:07 <kakobrekla> 6000 homes.. not that much
 642 2011-08-19 10:40:41 hugolp has joined
 643 2011-08-19 10:40:53 AStove has joined
 644 2011-08-19 10:40:58 <shadders> apologies if my unit offended you :p  was calculating backwards from my power bill $ figure
 645 2011-08-19 10:42:31 <UukGoblin> lol no offense taken ;-]
 646 2011-08-19 10:43:03 gjs278 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 647 2011-08-19 10:43:48 <hugolp> What does it mean a negative amount of bitcoins in one account of my wallet?
 648 2011-08-19 10:44:28 <UukGoblin> hugolp, a bug?
 649 2011-08-19 10:44:39 <shadders> delete the wallet.. bankruptcy without the bad credit rating :D
 650 2011-08-19 10:45:12 <cacheson> hugolp: you moved more coins out of the account than it actually had
 651 2011-08-19 10:45:23 <cacheson> the total wallet balance should still be non-negative
 652 2011-08-19 10:45:40 <hugolp> cacheson: the balance of the wallet is 0 indeed
 653 2011-08-19 10:46:03 <hugolp> but I did not move intentionally coins from one account to another, I just sent the coins with sendcoins
 654 2011-08-19 10:46:06 <hugolp> http://pastebin.com/GYUS2EsL
 655 2011-08-19 10:46:24 <UukGoblin> oh, that's stuff is buggy indeed
 656 2011-08-19 10:46:29 <UukGoblin> I had that happen to me
 657 2011-08-19 10:47:03 <cacheson> hugolp: not sure, never done that myself
 658 2011-08-19 10:47:12 <UukGoblin> it's misreported, you don't really have a negative balance
 659 2011-08-19 10:47:53 <hugolp> I should mention that I was sending coins from to an address in the other account in the same wallet
 660 2011-08-19 10:47:59 <hugolp> *to
 661 2011-08-19 10:49:07 <UukGoblin> I was using sendmany in ~0.3.21
 662 2011-08-19 10:49:29 <UukGoblin> don't remember exactly what I did, but I had similar issues
 663 2011-08-19 10:51:22 <doublec> if you use sendtoaddress then the "" account will be reduced by the amount
 664 2011-08-19 10:51:27 <doublec> and can end up with a negative balance
 665 2011-08-19 10:56:00 <diki> i've been having this question for a while. But is it possible due to precision errors or stuff like that, a hash <target to be discarded by Phoenix cause it decided it didnt match the difficulty?
 666 2011-08-19 10:58:00 <diki> or maybe the other way around, a hash which was pretty close to meeting the current diff, but wasnt <target due to rounding, phoenix to decide it does match the diff
 667 2011-08-19 10:58:21 <diki> and send it ?coind thus being rejected by ?coind
 668 2011-08-19 10:58:47 hugolp has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 669 2011-08-19 10:58:57 <cacheson> diki: there's no rounding, it's all integer operations
 670 2011-08-19 10:59:43 <diki> but if you look at the diff it's 1805700.8361937 i.e with a bit more precision
 671 2011-08-19 10:59:52 <diki> or does this precision not matter
 672 2011-08-19 11:00:04 <cacheson> pretty sure that's fixed-point, not floating point
 673 2011-08-19 11:00:43 <diki> uh, define fixed-point
 674 2011-08-19 11:00:53 <cacheson> internally represented as an integer
 675 2011-08-19 11:01:20 <cacheson> you just put a decimal place at a certain position when showing the number to humans
 676 2011-08-19 11:02:11 <zeropointo> "Thank you for providing photo identification. Dwolla support will review the identification for account verification. You will receive an email after a customer service representative has reviewed the account.This process is typically complete within 24 hours."
 677 2011-08-19 11:02:32 <zeropointo> hope the person reviewing it doesn't know who peewee herman is lol
 678 2011-08-19 11:03:05 Akinava has quit (Quit: Akinava)
 679 2011-08-19 11:03:49 pickett has quit (Read error: No route to host)
 680 2011-08-19 11:04:14 pickett has joined
 681 2011-08-19 11:04:19 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 682 2011-08-19 11:04:32 <diki> providing fake info?
 683 2011-08-19 11:04:37 <diki> goodbye to your money then
 684 2011-08-19 11:05:04 <zeropointo> havn't given them any
 685 2011-08-19 11:05:19 pickett has joined
 686 2011-08-19 11:05:53 <zeropointo> like they're going to come to my house at some point and look me in the face? the photo is stupid.
 687 2011-08-19 11:06:25 <JFK911> why did dwolla come after you for ID zeropointo ?
 688 2011-08-19 11:06:39 <zeropointo> just signing up for an account.
 689 2011-08-19 11:06:46 <zeropointo> no idea
 690 2011-08-19 11:06:51 <JFK911> oh
 691 2011-08-19 11:13:29 minimoose has joined
 692 2011-08-19 11:19:29 <diki> phoenix's askrate is broken
 693 2011-08-19 11:19:38 <diki> no matter what you set it at, it always asks for work every 11 seconds
 694 2011-08-19 11:19:46 <diki> rarely 12 and 13
 695 2011-08-19 11:19:51 <diki> but never what you set it at
 696 2011-08-19 11:21:03 <diki> just to point out, i even modified the code of phoenix
 697 2011-08-19 11:21:08 <diki> it still asks every 11 seconds
 698 2011-08-19 11:21:13 <diki> not 10, 11
 699 2011-08-19 11:22:17 hugolp has joined
 700 2011-08-19 11:22:55 <diki> "The power of python"....bogus
 701 2011-08-19 11:23:21 <hugolp> back, so then definitively is not a problem that one account has a negative balance, right?
 702 2011-08-19 11:23:44 <doublec> right
 703 2011-08-19 11:24:18 <hugolp> ok, thanks
 704 2011-08-19 11:25:18 <hugolp> another thing, is it posible that the oficial client (with GUI) leaks? After some days the computer it runs on becomes very slow because it has to use the swap disk a lot since there is no memory left
 705 2011-08-19 11:25:33 <hugolp> when I close the bitcoin client it gets solved
 706 2011-08-19 11:25:37 <hugolp> "solved"
 707 2011-08-19 11:26:15 <doublec> it uses a lot of memory
 708 2011-08-19 11:26:22 <doublec> depending on the number of connections it has
 709 2011-08-19 11:26:27 <doublec> number of transactions kept in memory, etc
 710 2011-08-19 11:26:39 <doublec> mine sits aroung 1GB
 711 2011-08-19 11:26:43 <hugolp> ahh
 712 2011-08-19 11:26:57 <hugolp> that computer has 1GB RAM so that explains a lot
 713 2011-08-19 11:27:22 <hugolp> does bitcoind needs so much RAM as well?
 714 2011-08-19 11:27:26 <doublec> yes
 715 2011-08-19 11:29:18 <diki> i'd be happy if someone told me why
 716 2011-08-19 11:29:35 <diki> Crysis 1 (2007) uses less ram
 717 2011-08-19 11:29:50 <diki> and it's a game i.e much complex
 718 2011-08-19 11:33:36 mmoya has joined
 719 2011-08-19 11:35:38 peck has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 720 2011-08-19 11:35:44 <hugolp> I want to know why Crysis has become a standard for hardware peformance
 721 2011-08-19 11:35:59 <hugolp> But indeed 1GB of RAM for the bitcoin client seems a bit much
 722 2011-08-19 11:36:25 <diki> blame it on the coder(s)
 723 2011-08-19 11:36:32 <diki> rather, blame it on satoshi
 724 2011-08-19 11:36:36 <diki> or there is a memory leak
 725 2011-08-19 11:36:49 <kreal-> there is a memory leak
 726 2011-08-19 11:37:05 <kreal-> has to allocate 8GB for my bitcoind
 727 2011-08-19 11:37:08 <kreal-> had*
 728 2011-08-19 11:37:54 <diki> then i dont think wallet encryption or updating to a newer upnpc is the main concern
 729 2011-08-19 11:42:27 <hugolp> btw, I just paid for my cat's food in bitcoins. Feels good.
 730 2011-08-19 11:44:57 <edcba> who sold you cat's food in bitcoins ??
 731 2011-08-19 11:48:05 gjs278 has joined
 732 2011-08-19 11:48:37 <hugolp> edcba: there is a internet shop in my country that sells cat and dog food for bitcoins.
 733 2011-08-19 11:49:04 <edcba> internet shop selling cat food
 734 2011-08-19 11:49:09 <hugolp> My country being in south of Europe under France and next to Portugal (I dont want to give too many clues to not reveal my location...)
 735 2011-08-19 11:49:26 <edcba> andorre !
 736 2011-08-19 11:49:39 <hugolp> http://www.telepienso.com/
 737 2011-08-19 11:49:47 <vegard> < hugolp> My country being in south of Europe under France and next to Portugal (I dont want to give too many clues to not reveal my location...) <-- LOL
 738 2011-08-19 11:49:56 <hugolp> andorre is next to Portugal? They have expanded a lot lately then...
 739 2011-08-19 11:50:29 <hugolp> ^thats the shop
 740 2011-08-19 11:50:52 <kreal-> hugolp I know what you did last summer!
 741 2011-08-19 11:54:32 <hugolp> kreal-: for real?
 742 2011-08-19 11:55:48 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 743 2011-08-19 11:57:30 zeropointo has quit (Quit: leaving)
 744 2011-08-19 11:57:38 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 745 2011-08-19 11:57:51 gjs278 has joined
 746 2011-08-19 11:58:36 <kreal-> no.
 747 2011-08-19 11:58:42 <kreal-> but I know where you live!
 748 2011-08-19 11:59:29 erus` has joined
 749 2011-08-19 12:01:25 ThomasV has joined
 750 2011-08-19 12:02:52 zamgo has joined
 751 2011-08-19 12:06:41 hugolp has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
 752 2011-08-19 12:13:27 Joric has joined
 753 2011-08-19 12:16:00 Shuro has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 754 2011-08-19 12:16:05 Shuro has joined
 755 2011-08-19 12:16:10 bonsaikitten has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 756 2011-08-19 12:16:15 bonsaikitten has joined
 757 2011-08-19 12:16:18 bonsaikitten has quit (Changing host)
 758 2011-08-19 12:16:18 bonsaikitten has joined
 759 2011-08-19 12:21:03 DukeOfURL has joined
 760 2011-08-19 12:21:12 huk has joined
 761 2011-08-19 12:21:31 wardearia has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 762 2011-08-19 12:21:39 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 763 2011-08-19 12:30:38 pixglen has quit (Quit: pixglen)
 764 2011-08-19 12:35:16 Incitatus has joined
 765 2011-08-19 12:38:16 wardearia has joined
 766 2011-08-19 12:41:44 zamgo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 767 2011-08-19 12:47:11 Folklore has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 768 2011-08-19 12:58:31 eian has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 769 2011-08-19 13:02:19 imsaguy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 770 2011-08-19 13:13:08 b4epoche_ has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 771 2011-08-19 13:16:11 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 772 2011-08-19 13:19:20 sprash has joined
 773 2011-08-19 13:20:37 snooplsm has joined
 774 2011-08-19 13:25:02 RickyC has joined
 775 2011-08-19 13:27:31 Ricky_C has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 776 2011-08-19 13:31:30 b4epoche_ has joined
 777 2011-08-19 13:32:52 larsig has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 778 2011-08-19 13:37:20 d4de has joined
 779 2011-08-19 13:40:52 aldiyen has joined
 780 2011-08-19 13:41:27 bitcoin has joined
 781 2011-08-19 13:46:57 larsig has joined
 782 2011-08-19 13:54:43 gp5st1 has joined
 783 2011-08-19 13:54:46 superman2016 has joined
 784 2011-08-19 13:58:22 zamgo has joined
 785 2011-08-19 14:02:01 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 786 2011-08-19 14:02:04 p0s has joined
 787 2011-08-19 14:08:52 <asif> hi
 788 2011-08-19 14:10:53 danonura has left ()
 789 2011-08-19 14:16:54 coderrr is now known as coderrr`brb
 790 2011-08-19 14:16:54 coderrr`brb is now known as coderrr
 791 2011-08-19 14:17:01 xelister has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 792 2011-08-19 14:18:34 shLONG has joined
 793 2011-08-19 14:20:41 shLONG has quit (Client Quit)
 794 2011-08-19 14:21:15 gp5st1 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 795 2011-08-19 14:23:25 Superbest has joined
 796 2011-08-19 14:25:34 Superbest has left ()
 797 2011-08-19 14:35:20 gp5st has joined
 798 2011-08-19 14:39:22 zapnap has joined
 799 2011-08-19 14:39:56 TheSeven has joined
 800 2011-08-19 14:47:10 KenArmitt has quit ()
 801 2011-08-19 14:49:58 <zamgo> how interesting, there is a graphic in the bicoin-testnet chain
 802 2011-08-19 14:50:22 <ThomasV> a graphic ? in ascii ?
 803 2011-08-19 14:51:19 <zamgo> strings -n 20 testnet/blk0001.dat
 804 2011-08-19 14:51:33 <zamgo> XMP tiff
 805 2011-08-19 14:51:36 <zamgo> maytbe
 806 2011-08-19 14:53:06 copumpkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 807 2011-08-19 14:53:31 copumpkin has joined
 808 2011-08-19 14:53:41 <asher^> any of you guys have .24 working with joelkatz patches?
 809 2011-08-19 14:54:15 <jrmithdobbs> what patches are those
 810 2011-08-19 14:55:06 nr9 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 811 2011-08-19 14:56:53 <asher^> patches for pool stuff
 812 2011-08-19 14:58:59 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 813 2011-08-19 15:01:01 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 814 2011-08-19 15:01:25 skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.1a1pre)
 815 2011-08-19 15:01:29 pixglen has joined
 816 2011-08-19 15:01:36 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r09510add01b6 gentoo/net-p2p/ (4 files in 3 dirs): net-p2p/bitcoind and net-p2p/wxbitcoin: fix boost autodetection for older versions
 817 2011-08-19 15:01:47 <Nicksasa> i'm trying to run a 2nd instance of bitcoind so i run it under a diffrent user and change rpcport= & port=
 818 2011-08-19 15:01:53 <Nicksasa> but connections stays at 0
 819 2011-08-19 15:02:30 <Nicksasa> nevermind, strangely it's downloading the blockchain but "connections" isn't updating, ohwell
 820 2011-08-19 15:02:56 skeledrew has joined
 821 2011-08-19 15:04:59 Delme has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 822 2011-08-19 15:07:26 Rabbit67890 has joined
 823 2011-08-19 15:18:26 coderrr is now known as coderrr`brb
 824 2011-08-19 15:19:17 DukeOfURL has joined
 825 2011-08-19 15:19:45 Daniel0108 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 826 2011-08-19 15:20:26 Rabbit67890 has quit (Quit: Rabbit67890)
 827 2011-08-19 15:21:14 mmoya has joined
 828 2011-08-19 15:22:29 d33tah has quit (Disconnected by services)
 829 2011-08-19 15:29:17 ephcon has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 830 2011-08-19 15:32:44 * luke-jr wonders when/if someone is going to fix bitcoind to build with boost 1.46+
 831 2011-08-19 15:33:35 <erus`> luke-jr we are moving to haskell
 832 2011-08-19 15:33:45 <erus`> so dont worry too much about implementation details
 833 2011-08-19 15:35:00 <DukeOfURL> does anyone have a java equivalent of the mtgox_query function in php?
 834 2011-08-19 15:35:00 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Why is the alphabet in that order?   Is it because of that song?)
 835 2011-08-19 15:35:11 Daniel0108 has joined
 836 2011-08-19 15:35:25 <DukeOfURL> does anyone have a java equivalent of the mtgox_query php function?
 837 2011-08-19 15:37:11 gp5st has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 838 2011-08-19 15:37:25 <erus`> DukeOfURL: using which library?
 839 2011-08-19 15:37:29 bitter has joined
 840 2011-08-19 15:37:37 <DukeOfURL> android java
 841 2011-08-19 15:37:54 <DukeOfURL> i would like to use the mtgox web service from the phone
 842 2011-08-19 15:40:42 erus` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 843 2011-08-19 15:41:06 fejiro has joined
 844 2011-08-19 15:41:12 fejiro has left ()
 845 2011-08-19 15:42:17 nhodges has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 846 2011-08-19 15:42:34 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 847 2011-08-19 15:42:36 <asif> hey
 848 2011-08-19 15:43:18 <Eliel> DukeOfURL: just use the mobile application mtgox is offering
 849 2011-08-19 15:43:21 fejiro has joined
 850 2011-08-19 15:43:28 fejiro has left ()
 851 2011-08-19 15:44:07 <DukeOfURL> Eliel: i have used that.  i need an mtgox interface in the app I'm writing.
 852 2011-08-19 15:44:23 <Eliel> oh
 853 2011-08-19 15:44:57 <DukeOfURL> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/MtGox/API
 854 2011-08-19 15:46:24 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 855 2011-08-19 15:46:41 <DukeOfURL> i'd like to use mtgox as the ewallet.  is there a better alternative?
 856 2011-08-19 15:50:33 <luke-jr> DukeOfURL: no, that's the best option right now
 857 2011-08-19 15:50:41 <luke-jr> for security, at least
 858 2011-08-19 15:50:47 <luke-jr> for functionality, WalletBit is nice
 859 2011-08-19 15:50:53 bitter has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 860 2011-08-19 15:53:12 gp5st1 has joined
 861 2011-08-19 15:53:16 coderrr`brb is now known as coderrr
 862 2011-08-19 15:54:52 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 863 2011-08-19 15:55:14 wardearia has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 864 2011-08-19 15:56:35 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * re17497c60689 gentoo/net-p2p/wxbitcoin/ (7 files): net-p2p/wxbitcoin: Need to use || with specific boost slot dependencies, just in case the user has 1.40 and 1.46 :/
 865 2011-08-19 15:58:46 <luke-jr> fwiw, the boost 1.46+ issue affects bitcoin-qt as well
 866 2011-08-19 15:58:50 <AlonzoTG> Are there any useful IDEs on Linux these days?
 867 2011-08-19 15:59:52 <JFK911> yeah use vbox and run visual studio inside that
 868 2011-08-19 16:00:17 <AlonzoTG> That's what I thought. =(
 869 2011-08-19 16:00:27 <JFK911> i dont like eclipse either
 870 2011-08-19 16:00:31 <JFK911> some people do
 871 2011-08-19 16:00:39 <AlonzoTG> I don't get eclipse at all.
 872 2011-08-19 16:00:40 <JFK911> you can use emacs if you are good
 873 2011-08-19 16:00:48 <JFK911> maybe you need more memory heheh
 874 2011-08-19 16:00:52 <AlonzoTG> it has a bunch of garbage that gets in your way and is poor interface design from every perspective.
 875 2011-08-19 16:01:13 <luke-jr> AlonzoTG: Qt Creator isn't too bad I think?
 876 2011-08-19 16:01:18 <JFK911> if you use svn, emacs picks up on it
 877 2011-08-19 16:01:23 <luke-jr> I personally use Kate :p
 878 2011-08-19 16:01:24 <JFK911> helps a little
 879 2011-08-19 16:01:24 <AlonzoTG> And Kdevelop 4 tries to emulate that interface.
 880 2011-08-19 16:01:29 <luke-jr> JFK911: who uses svn?
 881 2011-08-19 16:01:31 <AlonzoTG> Kdevelop 3 was quite good.
 882 2011-08-19 16:01:51 <JFK911> luke-jr: people who want to call their coworker on the telephone and say something liek "Check out revision twelve fifty two"
 883 2011-08-19 16:02:05 <luke-jr> JFK911: haha
 884 2011-08-19 16:02:12 <luke-jr> JFK911: Bazaar works fine tho ;)
 885 2011-08-19 16:02:17 <cacheson> telephone?  what's that?
 886 2011-08-19 16:02:25 nhodges has joined
 887 2011-08-19 16:02:26 <luke-jr> cacheson: yeah, we use IM :P
 888 2011-08-19 16:03:05 <luke-jr> JFK911: in fact, I'll use Bazaar even if my client has a Subversion repository
 889 2011-08-19 16:03:24 <luke-jr> it pretty much just works
 890 2011-08-19 16:03:25 <JFK911> how do you talk about git though? "Look what I did just after lunchtime"
 891 2011-08-19 16:03:43 <luke-jr> JFK911: you copy and paste commit hashes? :/
 892 2011-08-19 16:03:55 <luke-jr> notably, Bazaar has (limited) support for git repos too
 893 2011-08-19 16:04:03 <luke-jr> so you *could* use the revno assigned by bzr
 894 2011-08-19 16:04:17 superman2016 has quit (Quit: Quiting)
 895 2011-08-19 16:04:38 <JFK911> im kinda set in my ways tho, im pretty old
 896 2011-08-19 16:04:47 <luke-jr> admittedly, Svn does have some killer features
 897 2011-08-19 16:05:01 <luke-jr> like copies, metadata, and cherry picking
 898 2011-08-19 16:05:01 <JFK911> its alright.  seems light and stable
 899 2011-08-19 16:05:37 <JFK911> i see that being connected all the time is a problem for some people
 900 2011-08-19 16:05:56 <luke-jr> Bazaar mostly works fine for me if upstream is Svn :P
 901 2011-08-19 16:05:59 <luke-jr> including for offline dev
 902 2011-08-19 16:06:07 <cjdelisle> git > svn > cvs > hammer and chisel
 903 2011-08-19 16:06:16 <JFK911> sccs
 904 2011-08-19 16:06:19 <JFK911> heheh
 905 2011-08-19 16:06:28 <JFK911> never forget what att gave us
 906 2011-08-19 16:06:34 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * re529359e62de gentoo/net-p2p/bitcoin-qt/ (Manifest bitcoin-qt-9999.ebuild): net-p2p/bitcoin-qt: Need to use || with specific boost slot dependencies, just in case the user has 1.40 and 1.46 :/
 907 2011-08-19 16:06:48 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: bzr, git, and svn all have advantages
 908 2011-08-19 16:07:02 <luke-jr> bzr is surprisingly overlooked
 909 2011-08-19 16:07:03 <JFK911> people should use whats best for them
 910 2011-08-19 16:07:13 <luke-jr> JFK911: that's pretty much bzr's attitude
 911 2011-08-19 16:07:17 <cjdelisle> advantage of svn is noone will ever fork your project... ever
 912 2011-08-19 16:07:18 <JFK911> i just have a stash for personal projects
 913 2011-08-19 16:07:22 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: why not?
 914 2011-08-19 16:07:23 <JFK911> not a large group of people
 915 2011-08-19 16:07:30 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: bzr can fork svn upstream no problem
 916 2011-08-19 16:07:39 <JFK911> yeah why not?  worked between my intern and i
 917 2011-08-19 16:07:44 <luke-jr> bzr branch svn://… <-- makes a complete clone, including history
 918 2011-08-19 16:07:45 <JFK911> now he didnt LIKE it
 919 2011-08-19 16:07:48 <cjdelisle> I don't know bzr but I understand it is better than cvsvn
 920 2011-08-19 16:07:53 voot545 has joined
 921 2011-08-19 16:07:56 <JFK911> but that helped him learn about teamwork
 922 2011-08-19 16:08:16 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: bzr can treat svn as just another DVCS branch
 923 2011-08-19 16:08:28 Incitatus has joined
 924 2011-08-19 16:09:09 Synix has quit ()
 925 2011-08-19 16:09:09 * luke-jr often makes a bzr branch of some svn repo just for backup
 926 2011-08-19 16:10:28 superman2016 has joined
 927 2011-08-19 16:10:36 wardearia has joined
 928 2011-08-19 16:11:22 Cherothald has joined
 929 2011-08-19 16:12:11 brunner has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 930 2011-08-19 16:12:29 larsig has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 931 2011-08-19 16:12:48 hahuang65_ has joined
 932 2011-08-19 16:13:23 shLONG has joined
 933 2011-08-19 16:14:48 zamgo has left ()
 934 2011-08-19 16:17:14 Runnigan has joined
 935 2011-08-19 16:19:32 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 936 2011-08-19 16:22:12 erus` has joined
 937 2011-08-19 16:23:13 sprash has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 938 2011-08-19 16:32:43 bobke has quit (Read error: No route to host)
 939 2011-08-19 16:32:55 bobke has joined
 940 2011-08-19 16:36:00 abragin has quit ()
 941 2011-08-19 16:36:40 b4epoche_ has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 942 2011-08-19 16:39:02 peck has joined
 943 2011-08-19 16:46:13 Runnigan has left ()
 944 2011-08-19 16:47:09 superman2016 has quit (Quit: Quiting)
 945 2011-08-19 16:50:32 ThomasV has joined
 946 2011-08-19 16:54:26 he1kki has left ()
 947 2011-08-19 16:54:39 b4epoche_ has joined
 948 2011-08-19 16:56:27 DukeOfURL has joined
 949 2011-08-19 16:58:37 <diki> was going to ask
 950 2011-08-19 16:58:55 <diki> but can two bitcoin addresses which are identical exist, but their private keys to be different?
 951 2011-08-19 16:59:04 mosi has joined
 952 2011-08-19 17:00:20 <diki> basically, since it is possible to make custom addresses, what is stopping people from making identical addresses as another person's wallet addr?
 953 2011-08-19 17:00:36 <edcba> lolll
 954 2011-08-19 17:01:19 <diki> what is so funny?
 955 2011-08-19 17:01:50 Incitatus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 956 2011-08-19 17:01:55 SISUbtcX has quit (Quit: SISUbtcX)
 957 2011-08-19 17:02:07 <edcba> not that easy
 958 2011-08-19 17:02:14 <diki> not that easy what?
 959 2011-08-19 17:02:18 <log0s> diki: it's possible (due to hash collisions) but extremely unlikely
 960 2011-08-19 17:02:40 <diki> so can two addresses which are identical exist but have different private keys?
 961 2011-08-19 17:03:01 <ThomasV> diki: in theory yes. in practice, NO
 962 2011-08-19 17:03:03 <log0s> diki: they *can*, but in practice it will probably never happen
 963 2011-08-19 17:03:28 <diki> so you are saying if someone right now either by luck or by large processing power generated the same address as X person
 964 2011-08-19 17:03:44 <diki> they can basically receive anything that addr receives?
 965 2011-08-19 17:04:14 <ThomasV> by luck ?
 966 2011-08-19 17:04:19 <Eliel> yes, if they happen to generate the same address, they can use the coins how they please.
 967 2011-08-19 17:04:30 <diki> "Vanitygen uses the OpenSSL random number generator.  "
 968 2011-08-19 17:04:34 <diki> i.e its all random
 969 2011-08-19 17:04:58 <diki> so i thought that there is a fair amount of luck in this
 970 2011-08-19 17:05:39 <luke-jr> diki: you're more likely to have a block hash collision
 971 2011-08-19 17:05:48 <ThomasV> diki: the chances that you die from a meteor are way higher
 972 2011-08-19 17:05:52 <luke-jr> which would basically destroy Bitcoin
 973 2011-08-19 17:06:07 <Eliel> luke-jr: you sure?
 974 2011-08-19 17:06:18 <luke-jr> Eliel: ?
 975 2011-08-19 17:07:15 <Eliel> I mean, are you sure it would be a problem if two block hashes happened to coincide?
 976 2011-08-19 17:07:28 <log0s> a single block hash collision will not destroy bitcoin...someone finding a flaw in sha256 making it easy to find collisions could destroy bitcoin
 977 2011-08-19 17:07:32 <phantomcircuit> Eliel, yes it would b3e
 978 2011-08-19 17:07:52 <phantomcircuit> a single block hash collision would cause the block chain to be a circle
 979 2011-08-19 17:08:31 <Eliel> phantomcircuit: that sounds like an easy to prevent situation. Simply reject new blocks with the same hash as an older one.
 980 2011-08-19 17:08:34 maikmerten has joined
 981 2011-08-19 17:08:59 <phantomcircuit> Eliel, it's so unlikely to happen
 982 2011-08-19 17:09:06 <phantomcircuit> like
 983 2011-08-19 17:09:14 <phantomcircuit> heat death of the universe unlikely
 984 2011-08-19 17:09:17 <kreal-> Rate My Bitcoin Rig: http://opencode.dk/
 985 2011-08-19 17:09:36 Astrohacker has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 986 2011-08-19 17:10:23 MetaVolutioN has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 987 2011-08-19 17:10:40 <Eliel> phantomcircuit: so, what's the average time between the network finding two blocks with the same hash?
 988 2011-08-19 17:10:42 agricocb has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 989 2011-08-19 17:10:59 <phantomcircuit> Eliel, a number approximating infinity
 990 2011-08-19 17:11:13 <Eliel> phantomcircuit: there is no number approximating infinity
 991 2011-08-19 17:11:27 <phantomcircuit> a number which approximates infinity on a human time scale
 992 2011-08-19 17:11:34 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r5133ba9dfbbe gentoo/net-p2p/wxbitcoin/ (8 files in 2 dirs): net-p2p/wxbitcoin: Apply boost fs v3 patch to support newer boost versions
 993 2011-08-19 17:11:46 <phantomcircuit> Eliel, blocks are hashed with sha256
 994 2011-08-19 17:11:52 <phantomcircuit> so there are 2^256 possible block hashes
 995 2011-08-19 17:11:56 <ThomasV> Eliel: is there enough matter in the universe to store the blockchain until that happens ?
 996 2011-08-19 17:12:00 <Dagger3> presumably it's something like 2^256 * 10 minutes
 997 2011-08-19 17:12:03 Astrohacker has joined
 998 2011-08-19 17:12:22 <phantomcircuit> so yeah Dagger3 is right
 999 2011-08-19 17:12:29 <Eliel> Dagger3: more like 2^128 * 10 minutes ... although the difficulty reduces it too.
1000 2011-08-19 17:13:41 <Dagger3> even with 2^128 it's still 10^41 seconds
1001 2011-08-19 17:13:41 <diki> so does ocl vanity gen have some kind of protection against finding collisions?
1002 2011-08-19 17:13:57 <phantomcircuit> Eliel, it's 2^255 * 10 minutes
1003 2011-08-19 17:13:59 <Dagger3> when the age of the universe is 10^17 seconds, it's not worth worrying about
1004 2011-08-19 17:14:08 superman2016 has joined
1005 2011-08-19 17:14:13 <phantomcircuit> diki, no it's just absurdly unlikely
1006 2011-08-19 17:14:33 <phantomcircuit> Eliel, 1.10079248 × 10^69 millenia good enough for you?
1007 2011-08-19 17:14:33 hahuang65_ has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
1008 2011-08-19 17:14:35 <diki> by unlikely u mean it would take so much time that there'd be no point trying
1009 2011-08-19 17:14:48 <diki> but otherwise it's 100% possible?
1010 2011-08-19 17:14:56 <phantomcircuit> facepalm
1011 2011-08-19 17:15:02 <phantomcircuit> diki, lrn2crypto
1012 2011-08-19 17:15:02 <Eliel> diki: well, by all intents and purposes, every miner is already trying.
1013 2011-08-19 17:15:19 <diki> i am not talking about the stupid blocks
1014 2011-08-19 17:15:26 <diki> i was talking about the addresses
1015 2011-08-19 17:15:31 <diki> wallet addr
1016 2011-08-19 17:15:39 <ThomasV> diki: itz da same
1017 2011-08-19 17:16:12 <Eliel> diki: google birthday attack.
1018 2011-08-19 17:19:11 hahuang65_ has joined
1019 2011-08-19 17:19:28 MetaVolutioN has joined
1020 2011-08-19 17:19:52 <log0s> for addresses it would require finding a private key which has a public key that when hashed by sha256, and then hashed by ripemd160, creates a collision with the ripemd160 hash of the sha256 hash of the public key of a different private key...
1021 2011-08-19 17:19:55 <diki> how i understand the word unlikely is that it can happen, but it will take so much time it isnt even worth trying
1022 2011-08-19 17:20:04 markus_wanner has quit (Quit: leaving)
1023 2011-08-19 17:20:07 <diki> thus making you use the word unlikely
1024 2011-08-19 17:20:30 <Eliel> diki: it's that unlikely, basically.
1025 2011-08-19 17:23:20 d1g1t4l has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1026 2011-08-19 17:23:59 <diki> log0s:so it's not as simple as just entering the address you want in ocl vanity gen and even if a priv key is generated there are other things that need to match in order for this to work?
1027 2011-08-19 17:24:06 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1028 2011-08-19 17:24:37 enquirer has joined
1029 2011-08-19 17:24:41 <mtrlt> no, all you need is the private key
1030 2011-08-19 17:24:52 <diki> then why did log0s even post all that
1031 2011-08-19 17:25:11 <mtrlt> the private key that results in the address you want.
1032 2011-08-19 17:25:47 <diki> then isnt it time to ban vanity gen?
1033 2011-08-19 17:25:53 <mtrlt> how do you ban it
1034 2011-08-19 17:26:04 <diki> that i dont know
1035 2011-08-19 17:26:07 <cacheson> you need a hash collision in order to get a different private key but the same bitcoin address
1036 2011-08-19 17:26:07 <mtrlt> if finding a collision was that easy, bitcoin would be inherently broken
1037 2011-08-19 17:26:10 <diki> why did gaving even write that
1038 2011-08-19 17:26:32 <cacheson> I'd guess you're more likely to just generate the same private key as someone else
1039 2011-08-19 17:26:36 <mtrlt> finding a collision like that with a specific address would take like 2^160 trie
1040 2011-08-19 17:26:36 <mtrlt> s
1041 2011-08-19 17:26:37 <mtrlt> or so
1042 2011-08-19 17:26:41 <cacheson> and that is... "unlikely"
1043 2011-08-19 17:26:47 <mtrlt> cacheson: no
1044 2011-08-19 17:26:55 <mtrlt> cacheson: there are 2^256 private keys but 2^160 addresses.
1045 2011-08-19 17:27:04 <mtrlt> on average, there are 2^96 private keys for each address
1046 2011-08-19 17:27:16 <enquirer> couldn't block chain be used for any type of important timestamping, not only money?
1047 2011-08-19 17:27:46 <cacheson> mtrlt: ah
1048 2011-08-19 17:27:56 <enquirer> contracts for example
1049 2011-08-19 17:28:17 asher^ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1050 2011-08-19 17:28:35 <mtrlt> yep there can be lots of creative uses of the block chain :p
1051 2011-08-19 17:28:49 <diki> so, the way vanity gen works, is it possible for people to make pools to generate addresses?
1052 2011-08-19 17:28:59 <log0s> enquirer: it *could* be, but the bitcoin developers want the blockchain to be as useless as possible
1053 2011-08-19 17:28:59 <mtrlt> yes of course
1054 2011-08-19 17:29:16 <mtrlt> but it won't generate a collision before the universe is dead
1055 2011-08-19 17:29:19 <mtrlt> a single one.
1056 2011-08-19 17:29:48 <diki> by 2100 there will be 9-10 billion people on earth
1057 2011-08-19 17:29:54 <diki> thus more people with PCs
1058 2011-08-19 17:29:57 <diki> thus more GPUs
1059 2011-08-19 17:29:58 <mtrlt> and?
1060 2011-08-19 17:30:33 <luke-jr> that sounds like a low estimate.
1061 2011-08-19 17:30:52 <mtrlt> i doubt we'll have GPUs in 2100 :P
1062 2011-08-19 17:31:18 <diki> sure
1063 2011-08-19 17:31:24 <diki> its possible for them to be replaced
1064 2011-08-19 17:31:33 <mtrlt> but assuming moore's law.
1065 2011-08-19 17:32:25 <diki> by 2100 the max 450/70 mh/s a card can do right now will prolly be a laughable amount in the future
1066 2011-08-19 17:32:52 <luke-jr> by 2100, Bitcoin as we know it will be dead
1067 2011-08-19 17:33:23 <enquirer> maybe it turns out p=np by 2100
1068 2011-08-19 17:34:04 <enquirer> and all cryptography goes down the drain
1069 2011-08-19 17:36:54 agricocb has joined
1070 2011-08-19 17:37:19 <asif> hi
1071 2011-08-19 17:37:23 <luke-jr> o hai
1072 2011-08-19 17:37:32 <mtrlt> enquirer: all?
1073 2011-08-19 17:37:37 <diki> wanna be friends?
1074 2011-08-19 17:38:17 <diki> so i use around 2-3 fingers when typing
1075 2011-08-19 17:38:23 <diki> how do i use all 10?
1076 2011-08-19 17:39:06 <diki> the qwerty keyboard should allow people to use at least 10, but i cant
1077 2011-08-19 17:39:12 <diki> i can only use 4 max
1078 2011-08-19 17:41:23 <log0s> interesting: http://packetstormsecurity.org/news/view/19719/AES-Crypto-Compromised-By-Groundbreaking-Attack.html
1079 2011-08-19 17:41:32 superman2016 has quit (Quit: Quiting)
1080 2011-08-19 17:41:37 <log0s> the encrypted wallets should still be fine, though
1081 2011-08-19 17:42:01 superman2016 has joined
1082 2011-08-19 17:42:34 <diki> heheheheheh
1083 2011-08-19 17:42:40 <luke-jr> diki: are you stupid?
1084 2011-08-19 17:42:40 <diki> seems people are one step closer
1085 2011-08-19 17:42:53 <diki> luke-jr:i expect you to take those words back
1086 2011-08-19 17:43:04 <luke-jr> diki: QWERTY was designed for one purpose: to make typing more difficult
1087 2011-08-19 17:43:14 <log0s> trillions of years to crack a key is still a long time
1088 2011-08-19 17:43:43 <diki> luke-jr:so?
1089 2011-08-19 17:43:49 <diki> my question was totally different
1090 2011-08-19 17:44:56 CShar837005589 has joined
1091 2011-08-19 17:45:12 <asif> hi
1092 2011-08-19 17:45:21 CShar837005589 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1093 2011-08-19 17:45:22 <diki> ciao
1094 2011-08-19 17:46:02 CShar762386974 has joined
1095 2011-08-19 17:46:10 CShar762386974 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1096 2011-08-19 17:46:58 dvide has quit ()
1097 2011-08-19 17:49:32 clr_ has joined
1098 2011-08-19 17:51:26 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1099 2011-08-19 17:51:43 larsivi has joined
1100 2011-08-19 17:55:55 <luke-jr> so who's gonna redo wallet encryption with PGP? :P
1101 2011-08-19 17:56:46 <D0han> person with key
1102 2011-08-19 17:57:25 marf_away has joined
1103 2011-08-19 17:57:29 <samr7> luke-jr, will it be better off with pgp?
1104 2011-08-19 17:57:39 <luke-jr> samr7: afaik PGP isn't broken
1105 2011-08-19 17:57:49 ciscoftw_l33t has left ()
1106 2011-08-19 17:58:00 CShar1863263828 has joined
1107 2011-08-19 17:58:00 <samr7> luke-jr, what's wrong with the current impl?
1108 2011-08-19 17:58:09 <luke-jr> it uses AES
1109 2011-08-19 17:58:16 <luke-jr> which was just broken
1110 2011-08-19 17:58:16 CShar1863263828 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1111 2011-08-19 17:58:35 <samr7> so somebody figures out a 3x improvement
1112 2011-08-19 17:58:36 CShar682252776 has joined
1113 2011-08-19 17:58:41 <samr7> that's not breaking
1114 2011-08-19 17:58:44 <luke-jr> yes it is
1115 2011-08-19 17:58:48 CShar682252776 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1116 2011-08-19 17:58:59 <samr7> breaking is a sub-exponential improvement
1117 2011-08-19 17:59:10 <riush> 2**126 still takes /some/ time...
1118 2011-08-19 17:59:19 <luke-jr> broken tends to snowball
1119 2011-08-19 17:59:21 CShar874182119 has joined
1120 2011-08-19 17:59:24 <cacheson> “However, it doesn't compromise AES in any practical way.”
1121 2011-08-19 17:59:27 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/232#issuecomment-1395236
1122 2011-08-19 17:59:32 <luke-jr> using AES now is like playing with fire :P
1123 2011-08-19 17:59:47 <samr7> luke-jr, actually AES256 that they use is a bit broken, there was a published attack a while back
1124 2011-08-19 17:59:49 <phantomcircuit> for the lulz
1125 2011-08-19 18:00:14 <phantomcircuit> AES256 is LESS secure than 128
1126 2011-08-19 18:00:23 <samr7> ^^ indeed!
1127 2011-08-19 18:00:26 <phantomcircuit> they use a slightly different key schedule
1128 2011-08-19 18:00:43 <phantomcircuit> i tried to warn people about that when the wallet crypto was being implemented
1129 2011-08-19 18:00:46 <phantomcircuit> but people ignored me
1130 2011-08-19 18:00:48 <samr7> the wallet encryption also uses PKCS#5 1.5
1131 2011-08-19 18:00:49 <marf_away> doees it help at mining?
1132 2011-08-19 18:00:50 <phantomcircuit> meh
1133 2011-08-19 18:00:55 <copumpkin> marf_away: no
1134 2011-08-19 18:01:26 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: what's more fun, is that the 1) passphrase isn't mlock'd, 2) mlock fails on any standard Linux install, and 3) bitcoind ignores the mlock failure and goes on as if it was fine
1135 2011-08-19 18:01:47 <luke-jr> marf_away: mining is SHA-256
1136 2011-08-19 18:01:53 <vegard> phantomcircuit> AES256 is LESS secure than 128 ?
1137 2011-08-19 18:01:54 <luke-jr> marf_away: if that is broken, Bitcoin falls apart completely
1138 2011-08-19 18:02:08 AStove has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1139 2011-08-19 18:02:37 <samr7> luke-jr, so there's a slim chance of sensitive information being leaked to swap
1140 2011-08-19 18:02:45 <phantomcircuit> vegard, correct
1141 2011-08-19 18:02:46 <luke-jr> samr7: yep
1142 2011-08-19 18:03:00 <luke-jr> samr7: most important IMO is the false sense of security people have thinking it's mlock'd when it isn't
1143 2011-08-19 18:03:13 <phantomcircuit> vegard, they are *not* the same algorithm they are merely very similar algorithms
1144 2011-08-19 18:03:19 abragin has joined
1145 2011-08-19 18:04:08 <samr7> luke-jr, people here = who?
1146 2011-08-19 18:04:22 Raccoon` has joined
1147 2011-08-19 18:04:31 <vegard> phantomcircuit: doesn't it have twice as many bits in the key?
1148 2011-08-19 18:04:31 <luke-jr> samr7: anyone who glances at the code and sees mlock
1149 2011-08-19 18:05:13 <phantomcircuit> vegard, yes but the actual algorithm used by aes 128 is less secure than the one used by aes 256
1150 2011-08-19 18:05:19 <phantomcircuit> it is not merely a question of key length
1151 2011-08-19 18:05:49 <vegard> this is not about the recently published attack, is it?
1152 2011-08-19 18:05:55 <phantomcircuit> no it's not
1153 2011-08-19 18:06:01 <samr7> luke-jr, so should they get rid of mlock, or fix the behavior?
1154 2011-08-19 18:06:06 cronopio has joined
1155 2011-08-19 18:06:10 <phantomcircuit> it has been known for a long time that aes 128 is more secure than aes 256
1156 2011-08-19 18:06:16 <luke-jr> samr7: either use mlock or don't, but don't have it in there doing nothing
1157 2011-08-19 18:06:19 <vegard> so how many bits of security for each of them?
1158 2011-08-19 18:06:40 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1159 2011-08-19 18:06:43 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1160 2011-08-19 18:06:56 molecular has joined
1161 2011-08-19 18:07:25 Raccoon has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1162 2011-08-19 18:07:26 Raccoon` is now known as Raccoon
1163 2011-08-19 18:07:35 BGL has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1164 2011-08-19 18:08:36 CShar874182119 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1165 2011-08-19 18:09:13 <vegard> “On July 1, 2009, Bruce Schneier blogged[15] about a related-key attack on the 192-bit and 256-bit versions of AES, discovered by Alex Biryukov and Dmitry Khovratovich,[16] which exploits AES's somewhat simple key schedule and has a complexity of 2119”
1166 2011-08-19 18:09:15 jav__ has joined
1167 2011-08-19 18:09:23 <vegard> wikipedia. I assume that's it?
1168 2011-08-19 18:09:49 QueryTom3000 has joined
1169 2011-08-19 18:11:44 Lethe has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1170 2011-08-19 18:11:50 <samr7> luke-jr, I agree, the implementation of that does look kinda messy
1171 2011-08-19 18:12:11 <samr7> it has caveats all over the place about other ways that passwords can be leaked to swap
1172 2011-08-19 18:12:28 robotarmy has joined
1173 2011-08-19 18:12:48 Maged has joined
1174 2011-08-19 18:13:12 DontMindMe has joined
1175 2011-08-19 18:13:34 <iddo> vegard: ECDSA that bitcoin uses for signing txns doesn't have more than 128 bits of security, so you can argue that aes128 is enough
1176 2011-08-19 18:13:37 <samr7> I can't see it helping an attacker other than maybe a law enforcement guy who is clever enough to look at the swap on a seized machine
1177 2011-08-19 18:14:03 eao has joined
1178 2011-08-19 18:14:23 <iddo> anyway the aes256 practical attacks are related-key attacks, not relevant when using single key to encrypt wallet
1179 2011-08-19 18:14:50 nhodges has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1180 2011-08-19 18:14:56 robotarmy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1181 2011-08-19 18:15:03 robotarmy has joined
1182 2011-08-19 18:15:04 sytse has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1183 2011-08-19 18:15:57 <vegard> samr7: virtual machines maybe
1184 2011-08-19 18:16:39 <samr7> vegard, true!
1185 2011-08-19 18:21:36 erus` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1186 2011-08-19 18:25:15 E-sense has joined
1187 2011-08-19 18:25:25 <Eliel> iddo: huh? I thought the ECDSA used was 256 bit?
1188 2011-08-19 18:26:15 <samr7> Eliel, it is, but EC methods are considered to provide N/2 "bits" of equivalent security to a secret key
1189 2011-08-19 18:26:27 <iddo> public key is 256 bit
1190 2011-08-19 18:29:14 CShar95289025 has joined
1191 2011-08-19 18:29:38 <asif> hi
1192 2011-08-19 18:30:52 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1193 2011-08-19 18:31:48 marf_away has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
1194 2011-08-19 18:32:54 MrTiggr is now known as MrTiggrAFK
1195 2011-08-19 18:36:16 Ricky_C has joined
1196 2011-08-19 18:36:21 yellowhat has joined
1197 2011-08-19 18:36:41 skeledrew1 has joined
1198 2011-08-19 18:36:54 TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)
1199 2011-08-19 18:36:55 Workbench_ has joined
1200 2011-08-19 18:37:08 [7] has joined
1201 2011-08-19 18:37:27 gribble has quit (Disconnected by services)
1202 2011-08-19 18:37:35 CShar95289025 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1203 2011-08-19 18:37:43 _Burgundy has joined
1204 2011-08-19 18:38:01 superman2016 has quit (Quit: Quiting)
1205 2011-08-19 18:38:15 asherkin_ has joined
1206 2011-08-19 18:38:30 ForceMajeure_ has joined
1207 2011-08-19 18:39:06 agricocb1 has joined
1208 2011-08-19 18:39:09 niekie_ has joined
1209 2011-08-19 18:39:26 _IO- has joined
1210 2011-08-19 18:39:35 fpgaminer has joined
1211 2011-08-19 18:39:43 gribble has joined
1212 2011-08-19 18:39:55 fpgaminer has left ()
1213 2011-08-19 18:40:06 Ken`_ has joined
1214 2011-08-19 18:40:10 codemojo_ has joined
1215 2011-08-19 18:40:17 upb__ has joined
1216 2011-08-19 18:40:21 enki_ has joined
1217 2011-08-19 18:40:37 megu_ has joined
1218 2011-08-19 18:40:45 slush has joined
1219 2011-08-19 18:40:52 Gekz_ has joined
1220 2011-08-19 18:40:52 Gekz_ has quit (Changing host)
1221 2011-08-19 18:40:52 Gekz_ has joined
1222 2011-08-19 18:41:00 tcatm_ has joined
1223 2011-08-19 18:41:04 upb has quit (Disconnected by services)
1224 2011-08-19 18:41:07 upb__ is now known as upb
1225 2011-08-19 18:41:17 upb has quit (Changing host)
1226 2011-08-19 18:41:17 upb has joined
1227 2011-08-19 18:41:54 superman2016 has joined
1228 2011-08-19 18:42:28 thoughtpolice_ has joined
1229 2011-08-19 18:42:36 BGL has joined
1230 2011-08-19 18:42:56 <asif> hi
1231 2011-08-19 18:44:17 PPilate has joined
1232 2011-08-19 18:44:38 snooplsm_ has joined
1233 2011-08-19 18:44:50 snooplsm_ has quit (Client Quit)
1234 2011-08-19 18:44:53 MrTiggrAFK is now known as MrTiggr
1235 2011-08-19 18:45:02 asherkin_ is now known as asherkin
1236 2011-08-19 18:45:25 denisx has joined
1237 2011-08-19 18:48:20 Backburn has joined
1238 2011-08-19 18:48:20 Rozz has joined
1239 2011-08-19 18:48:20 zapnap has joined
1240 2011-08-19 18:48:20 manveru has joined
1241 2011-08-19 18:48:20 RichardG has joined
1242 2011-08-19 18:48:56 arcatan has joined
1243 2011-08-19 18:50:12 superman2016 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1244 2011-08-19 18:51:02 ahihi2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1245 2011-08-19 18:51:04 superman2016 has joined
1246 2011-08-19 18:51:09 <asif> hi
1247 2011-08-19 18:51:50 HaltingState has joined
1248 2011-08-19 18:51:56 sytse has joined
1249 2011-08-19 18:52:32 yellowhat has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330])
1250 2011-08-19 18:52:36 gp5st has joined
1251 2011-08-19 18:52:37 superman2016 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1252 2011-08-19 18:53:20 TuxBlackEdo has joined
1253 2011-08-19 18:53:20 HaltingState has joined
1254 2011-08-19 18:53:20 freewil has joined
1255 2011-08-19 18:53:20 epscy has joined
1256 2011-08-19 18:53:20 E-sense has joined
1257 2011-08-19 18:53:32 HaltingState has left ()
1258 2011-08-19 18:54:21 Bwild has joined
1259 2011-08-19 18:54:36 <enquirer> does mlock work on windoze?
1260 2011-08-19 18:55:28 superman2016 has joined
1261 2011-08-19 18:55:31 <asif> hello
1262 2011-08-19 18:55:40 ahihi2 has joined
1263 2011-08-19 18:56:07 superman2016 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1264 2011-08-19 18:58:16 Joric has quit ()
1265 2011-08-19 18:58:56 superman2016 has joined
1266 2011-08-19 18:58:59 samr7 has joined
1267 2011-08-19 19:01:41 Daniel0108 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1268 2011-08-19 19:03:50 welterde has joined
1269 2011-08-19 19:04:12 gjs278 has joined
1270 2011-08-19 19:04:21 Daniel0108 has joined
1271 2011-08-19 19:04:49 QueryTom3000 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1272 2011-08-19 19:06:23 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1273 2011-08-19 19:07:30 superman2016 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1274 2011-08-19 19:09:30 eao has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1275 2011-08-19 19:11:11 Daniel0108 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1276 2011-08-19 19:13:44 superman2016 has joined
1277 2011-08-19 19:14:23 <asif> hi
1278 2011-08-19 19:14:43 denisx has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1279 2011-08-19 19:15:05 denisx has joined
1280 2011-08-19 19:16:21 bitcoin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1281 2011-08-19 19:16:23 <asif> what is asyn
1282 2011-08-19 19:17:14 Daniel0108 has joined
1283 2011-08-19 19:17:23 denisx_ has joined
1284 2011-08-19 19:17:28 jav__ has joined
1285 2011-08-19 19:17:58 denisx_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1286 2011-08-19 19:18:04 denisx_ has joined
1287 2011-08-19 19:19:12 bitcoin has joined
1288 2011-08-19 19:19:23 ForceMajeure_ is now known as ForceMajeure
1289 2011-08-19 19:19:26 denisx has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1290 2011-08-19 19:21:43 maikmerten has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1291 2011-08-19 19:22:12 denisx has joined
1292 2011-08-19 19:22:31 denisx_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1293 2011-08-19 19:25:15 bittwist_ has joined
1294 2011-08-19 19:25:40 devon_hillard has joined
1295 2011-08-19 19:29:05 bittwist has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1296 2011-08-19 19:29:53 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
1297 2011-08-19 19:30:55 AStove has joined
1298 2011-08-19 19:38:50 gp5st has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1299 2011-08-19 19:41:11 jav__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1300 2011-08-19 19:44:19 <diki> what was the number of possible bitcoin addresses?
1301 2011-08-19 19:44:31 <diki> i know it was _quite_ big
1302 2011-08-19 19:44:33 theymos has joined
1303 2011-08-19 19:44:44 <theymos> Where's that site that shows who mined all of the blocks?
1304 2011-08-19 19:44:44 gp5st has joined
1305 2011-08-19 19:45:26 <diki> nice try theymos
1306 2011-08-19 19:45:42 <diki> i think instead of posting sarcasm crap, you should focus on some CSS
1307 2011-08-19 19:46:09 <theymos> There's a site that uses pool APIs to show who mined almost all blocks. They are listed and color-coded. I can't find it, though.
1308 2011-08-19 19:46:48 <theymos> I was thinking it was called "who mined the blocks" or something.
1309 2011-08-19 19:46:59 <nanotube> theymos: i know what you're talking about, i've seen it too... but can't recall what it is either
1310 2011-08-19 19:47:39 <Eliel> diki: 2 raised to 160 and you get the number of possible bitcoin addresses
1311 2011-08-19 19:47:48 <diki> 2^160?
1312 2011-08-19 19:47:53 <Eliel> yes
1313 2011-08-19 19:47:55 <Eliel> 1461501637330902918203684832716283019655932542976
1314 2011-08-19 19:48:26 <Eliel> but in practise, if we ever reach even 0.1% usage rate of those, it's likely to cause problems.
1315 2011-08-19 19:48:35 <mtrlt> we can't
1316 2011-08-19 19:48:50 <mtrlt> there will be only 21M bitcoins
1317 2011-08-19 19:48:53 <mtrlt> or so
1318 2011-08-19 19:49:14 <Eliel> times 10 to 8th.
1319 2011-08-19 19:49:20 <diki> which is..
1320 2011-08-19 19:49:22 <diki> wait for it...
1321 2011-08-19 19:49:29 <mtrlt> so around 2^51 addresses can be used simultaneously
1322 2011-08-19 19:49:38 <mtrlt> far from 2^160 :p
1323 2011-08-19 19:49:43 <Eliel> yes, true
1324 2011-08-19 19:49:48 <diki> one quindecillion ,four hundred sixty one quattuordecillion ,five hundred one tredecillion ,six hundred thirty seven duodecillion ,three hundred thirty undecillion ,nine hundred two decillion ,nine hundred eighteen nonillion ,two hundred three octillion ,six hundred eighty four septillion ,eight hundred thirty two sextillion ,seven hundred sixteen quintillion ,two hundred eighty three
1325 2011-08-19 19:49:48 <diki> quadrillion ,nineteen trillion ,six hundred fifty five billion ,nine hundred thirty two million ,five hundred forty two thousand ,nine hundred seventy six
1326 2011-08-19 19:49:49 <Eliel> far enough :)
1327 2011-08-19 19:50:11 <Eliel> hey, I just realized that this is also the theoretical limit on blockchain size... if we prune it that is.
1328 2011-08-19 19:50:18 <theymos> If there ever was a problem, it would be really trivial to up the address version and use SHA-256 for the hashes.
1329 2011-08-19 19:50:25 <Eliel> ... well, actually no
1330 2011-08-19 19:50:46 <theymos> It's the max number of unspent transactions.
1331 2011-08-19 19:51:24 <Eliel> oh and in that case, each transaction would be one input and one output
1332 2011-08-19 19:51:47 <Eliel> ... oh, not necessarily
1333 2011-08-19 19:52:23 <Eliel> might be multiple outputs and multiple inputs but outputs would be equal or fewer than inputs.
1334 2011-08-19 19:52:38 <diki> how many priv keys can be imported in a bitcoin wallet?
1335 2011-08-19 19:52:50 <theymos> Actually, it's the max number of unspent outputs. You could have more unspent transactions than that if you consider a transaction unspent when it is only partially spent.
1336 2011-08-19 19:53:04 <Eliel> diki: I don't think there's a limit.
1337 2011-08-19 19:53:35 <Eliel> partially sent transaction?
1338 2011-08-19 19:53:37 <someone42> theymos: is this it?: http://digbtc.com/index.php
1339 2011-08-19 19:53:52 <theymos> Yes, thanks a lot!
1340 2011-08-19 19:53:59 <Eliel> there's also pident
1341 2011-08-19 19:54:11 <Eliel> http://pident.artefact2.com/
1342 2011-08-19 19:56:50 clr_ is now known as c0w
1343 2011-08-19 19:57:38 <Eliel> hmh... ok, theoretical maximum space taken by unspent transactions 546000 terabytes. Assuming average transaction size of 260 bytes.
1344 2011-08-19 19:58:24 <theymos> Not an impossible amount of space, at least.
1345 2011-08-19 20:00:18 <Eliel> yes, 18 doublings in the hard drive capacity and it could fit in one.
1346 2011-08-19 20:00:33 <mtrlt> or nine quadruplings
1347 2011-08-19 20:01:06 <Eliel> ok, so, how many years?
1348 2011-08-19 20:01:12 <Eliel> 18 years? 30?
1349 2011-08-19 20:01:41 <mtrlt> how fast has hd capacity grown lately anyway?
1350 2011-08-19 20:02:20 <Eliel> I think we were at around 120GB per drive somewhere around 2002
1351 2011-08-19 20:02:57 <Eliel> so, 4 doublings since then ... oh wait, the price has come down since then
1352 2011-08-19 20:03:02 <Eliel> too
1353 2011-08-19 20:03:10 <Eliel> that's an additional factor of 3
1354 2011-08-19 20:03:37 <jrmithdobbs> ya it's not an issue
1355 2011-08-19 20:03:49 <Eliel> so doubles every 2 years is close enough estimate
1356 2011-08-19 20:04:09 BurtyB has left ()
1357 2011-08-19 20:04:12 <mtrlt> the biggest hds are 3TB
1358 2011-08-19 20:04:12 <jrmithdobbs> but the cost halves or MORE every year in addition
1359 2011-08-19 20:04:23 <jrmithdobbs> so ya, not an issue.
1360 2011-08-19 20:04:24 <mtrlt> at least the biggest i can find :p
1361 2011-08-19 20:05:09 <Eliel> anyway, let's make some reasonable estimate instead of the max :P
1362 2011-08-19 20:05:19 <Eliel> 10 billion people
1363 2011-08-19 20:05:38 <Eliel> I guess reasonable average might be 1000 active addresses per person at a time
1364 2011-08-19 20:06:20 <Eliel> 2600 terabytes
1365 2011-08-19 20:07:27 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
1366 2011-08-19 20:09:11 Titeuf_87 has joined
1367 2011-08-19 20:12:02 zooko has joined
1368 2011-08-19 20:12:10 Lethe has joined
1369 2011-08-19 20:12:10 <zooko> Hey folks, you might be interested in this mailing list discussion: http://lists.zooko.com/pipermail/p2p-hackers/2011-August/002979.html
1370 2011-08-19 20:12:27 owowo has joined
1371 2011-08-19 20:15:44 p0s has joined
1372 2011-08-19 20:17:53 c0w has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1373 2011-08-19 20:17:58 picgla has left ()
1374 2011-08-19 20:18:04 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1375 2011-08-19 20:19:54 cronopio has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1376 2011-08-19 20:20:38 cronopio has joined
1377 2011-08-19 20:25:43 JRWR has joined
1378 2011-08-19 20:25:44 JRWR has quit (Changing host)
1379 2011-08-19 20:25:44 JRWR has joined
1380 2011-08-19 20:37:48 dbosk has quit (Quit: leaving)
1381 2011-08-19 20:38:39 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1382 2011-08-19 20:39:03 JRWR has quit (Read error: No route to host)
1383 2011-08-19 20:40:54 somuchwin has joined
1384 2011-08-19 20:40:54 voot545 has quit ()
1385 2011-08-19 20:40:58 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1386 2011-08-19 20:43:39 paul0 has joined
1387 2011-08-19 20:46:50 abragin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1388 2011-08-19 20:47:33 abragin has joined
1389 2011-08-19 20:47:33 abragin has quit (Changing host)
1390 2011-08-19 20:47:33 abragin has joined
1391 2011-08-19 20:48:17 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1392 2011-08-19 20:49:15 kish has joined
1393 2011-08-19 20:58:24 gp5st has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1394 2011-08-19 20:58:45 c0w has joined
1395 2011-08-19 21:05:05 Diablo-D3 has joined
1396 2011-08-19 21:07:03 <Diablo-D3> so I heard theres a bitcoin conference going on
1397 2011-08-19 21:11:21 <diki> was wondering if i generated a few megabytes worth of addresses and imported them into my wallet, would the wallet increase by roughly the same size?
1398 2011-08-19 21:13:02 gp5st has joined
1399 2011-08-19 21:13:41 robotarmy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1400 2011-08-19 21:18:43 raijin has joined
1401 2011-08-19 21:19:02 raijin__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1402 2011-08-19 21:25:56 samr7 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1403 2011-08-19 21:34:58 b4epoche_ has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1404 2011-08-19 21:36:54 <b4epoche> eh, kinda depends on how you measure 'a few megabytes worth of addresses', no?
1405 2011-08-19 21:37:05 c0w has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1406 2011-08-19 21:38:59 denisx has joined
1407 2011-08-19 21:42:43 <diki> ok, privkeys
1408 2011-08-19 21:43:52 <makomk> diki: your wallet would increase in size by more than you might expect.
1409 2011-08-19 21:44:25 <makomk> The format Bitcoin uses to store private keys in its wallet is a lot less compact than the one generally used for inport and export.
1410 2011-08-19 21:44:32 zooko has left ("##p2p-hackers")
1411 2011-08-19 21:47:02 samr7 has joined
1412 2011-08-19 21:47:11 Incitatus has joined
1413 2011-08-19 21:47:26 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1414 2011-08-19 21:49:32 c0w has joined
1415 2011-08-19 21:50:40 b4epoche_ has joined
1416 2011-08-19 21:51:00 <neofutur> Diablo-D3: conf agenda : http://goo.gl/A5DqZ
1417 2011-08-19 21:51:10 <neofutur> http://bitcoinme.com/index.php/bitcon-2011/
1418 2011-08-19 21:54:58 cronopio has quit (Quit: leaving)
1419 2011-08-19 21:59:46 Ten98 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1420 2011-08-19 22:00:50 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1421 2011-08-19 22:01:06 kish has joined
1422 2011-08-19 22:01:40 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1423 2011-08-19 22:02:59 Joric has joined
1424 2011-08-19 22:04:02 datagutt has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1425 2011-08-19 22:04:20 gp5st has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1426 2011-08-19 22:06:04 paul0 has quit (Quit: paul0)
1427 2011-08-19 22:06:06 kish has joined
1428 2011-08-19 22:08:36 Ten-Nine-Eight has joined
1429 2011-08-19 22:09:39 eao has joined
1430 2011-08-19 22:10:45 erus` has joined
1431 2011-08-19 22:13:58 <upb> lol @ bitcon
1432 2011-08-19 22:14:21 gut4 has joined
1433 2011-08-19 22:17:48 ewal-otg has joined
1434 2011-08-19 22:26:22 eao has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1435 2011-08-19 22:29:33 ewal-otg has quit (Quit: ewal-otg)
1436 2011-08-19 22:32:47 freewil has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1437 2011-08-19 22:33:05 superman2016 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1438 2011-08-19 22:33:54 temporalcause has joined
1439 2011-08-19 22:34:15 asif has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1440 2011-08-19 22:42:07 c0w is now known as c00w
1441 2011-08-19 22:43:29 gut4 has quit (Quit: gut4)
1442 2011-08-19 22:46:35 MBS has joined
1443 2011-08-19 22:49:04 pumpkin has joined
1444 2011-08-19 22:50:08 copumpkin has quit (Disconnected by services)
1445 2011-08-19 22:50:11 pumpkin is now known as copumpkin
1446 2011-08-19 22:54:48 Vladimir has joined
1447 2011-08-19 22:55:05 <Vladimir> https://bitcoin.org.uk/ daily roll:
1448 2011-08-19 22:55:14 <Vladimir> ;;dice 1d90
1449 2011-08-19 22:55:15 <gribble> 21
1450 2011-08-19 22:55:28 <Ten-Nine-Eight> ooh is it me
1451 2011-08-19 22:55:31 <Ten-Nine-Eight> ;D
1452 2011-08-19 22:56:09 <Vladimir> CryptoCommodity
1453 2011-08-19 22:56:52 <Ten-Nine-Eight> aw
1454 2011-08-19 22:58:22 Rabbit67890 has joined
1455 2011-08-19 23:09:25 MobiusL_ has joined
1456 2011-08-19 23:10:12 Rabbit67890 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1457 2011-08-19 23:10:12 mosi has quit (out!~mos@hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooge.dongs.dtegaming.com|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1458 2011-08-19 23:10:24 Rabbit67890 has joined
1459 2011-08-19 23:10:43 Rabbit67890_ has joined
1460 2011-08-19 23:10:55 MobiusL has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1461 2011-08-19 23:11:34 MobiusL_ has quit (Client Quit)
1462 2011-08-19 23:12:03 MobiusL has joined
1463 2011-08-19 23:14:35 tcoppi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1464 2011-08-19 23:14:37 Rabbit67890 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1465 2011-08-19 23:14:38 Rabbit67890_ is now known as Rabbit67890
1466 2011-08-19 23:15:08 abragin has quit ()
1467 2011-08-19 23:18:52 cypherpunk01 has joined
1468 2011-08-19 23:24:17 owowo is now known as DonGiro
1469 2011-08-19 23:24:42 ahbritto has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1470 2011-08-19 23:24:51 DonGiro has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1471 2011-08-19 23:25:59 tcoppi has joined
1472 2011-08-19 23:26:59 ShKoDrAnI has joined
1473 2011-08-19 23:28:17 darkskiez has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1474 2011-08-19 23:31:23 ShKoDrAnI_ has joined
1475 2011-08-19 23:31:32 darkskiez has joined
1476 2011-08-19 23:32:23 Cusipzzz has joined
1477 2011-08-19 23:32:35 ShKoDrAnI has quit (Disconnected by services)
1478 2011-08-19 23:32:47 ShKoDrAnI_ is now known as ShKoDrAnI
1479 2011-08-19 23:32:54 ShKoDrAnI has quit (Changing host)
1480 2011-08-19 23:32:54 ShKoDrAnI has joined
1481 2011-08-19 23:33:06 tcoppi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1482 2011-08-19 23:33:10 Joric has quit ()
1483 2011-08-19 23:35:29 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1484 2011-08-19 23:36:43 ahbritto has joined
1485 2011-08-19 23:39:34 tcoppi has joined
1486 2011-08-19 23:41:19 shawn-p has joined
1487 2011-08-19 23:42:37 Titeuf_87 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1488 2011-08-19 23:47:06 tcoppi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1489 2011-08-19 23:47:16 smtmnyz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1490 2011-08-19 23:48:01 tcoppi has joined
1491 2011-08-19 23:50:34 jjjrmy has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1492 2011-08-19 23:53:52 AStove has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1493 2011-08-19 23:55:29 c00w has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1494 2011-08-19 23:57:20 Gekz_ is now known as Gekz
1495 2011-08-19 23:59:21 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1496 2011-08-19 23:59:43 Optimo_ has quit (Read error: No route to host)
1497 2011-08-19 23:59:54 BurningToad has joined