1 2011-08-26 00:00:06 <fabianhjr_> Also, what size should it be per key?
   2 2011-08-26 00:00:58 <makomk> Basically unless the wallet.dat assigns a name to the key it doesn't show up in the list of your keys in the UI.
   3 2011-08-26 00:01:30 <makomk> Money sent to it should still show up as being sent to you though.
   4 2011-08-26 00:02:20 Rabbit67890_ has joined
   5 2011-08-26 00:02:52 <fabianhjr_> So, keys are about 160 bits, and 256 priv/pub right?
   6 2011-08-26 00:04:02 <makomk> Bitcoin stores a whole bunch of repeated and redundant information with each key, so it's more like several hundred bytes.
   7 2011-08-26 00:04:27 <makomk> The raw private key is 256 bits and raw public key is 512...
   8 2011-08-26 00:04:31 rafsoaken1 has quit (Quit: rafsoaken1)
   9 2011-08-26 00:05:30 Rabbit67890 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  10 2011-08-26 00:05:30 Rabbit67890_ is now known as Rabbit67890
  11 2011-08-26 00:06:15 sytse has joined
  12 2011-08-26 00:07:20 asher^ has joined
  13 2011-08-26 00:07:23 asher^ has quit (Changing host)
  14 2011-08-26 00:07:23 asher^ has joined
  15 2011-08-26 00:07:56 <makomk> fabianhjr_: the "no keys as spare addresses" warning is about the fact that you need to be very careful about how you take backup copies of your recovered wallet before making any payments from it.
  16 2011-08-26 00:08:58 TheZimm has joined
  17 2011-08-26 00:08:59 <makomk> fabianhjr_: if you make payments without backing up correctly you can lose Bitcoins quite easily.
  18 2011-08-26 00:09:22 TheZimm has quit (Client Quit)
  19 2011-08-26 00:10:39 semb has joined
  20 2011-08-26 00:11:16 theorb has joined
  21 2011-08-26 00:12:06 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  22 2011-08-26 00:12:16 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
  23 2011-08-26 00:14:38 noagenda_ has joined
  24 2011-08-26 00:20:19 noagenda_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  25 2011-08-26 00:22:41 wolfspraul has joined
  26 2011-08-26 00:22:55 Rabbit67890 has quit (Quit: Rabbit67890)
  27 2011-08-26 00:23:03 Rabbit67890 has joined
  28 2011-08-26 00:23:59 BTCTrader_ is now known as BTC_away
  29 2011-08-26 00:24:40 minimoose has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  30 2011-08-26 00:25:24 Rabbit67890 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  31 2011-08-26 00:25:30 Rabbit67890 has joined
  32 2011-08-26 00:27:04 <makomk> fabianhjr_: basically, be sure to take backup copies of the version of the recovered wallet.dat that's named wallet.dat and in your .bitcoin folder to multiple locations, after shutting down the client, before making any transactions.
  33 2011-08-26 00:27:32 <makomk> Then back it up again (after again shutting down the client) after each set of transactions.
  34 2011-08-26 00:28:06 minimoose has joined
  35 2011-08-26 00:28:50 <makomk> It's kinda hairy especially when running from LiveCD because your .bitcoin folder on LiveCDs is generally in RAM and gets lost when you shutdown.
  36 2011-08-26 00:30:01 <makomk> Also, do the same after generating an address to give to someone for them to pay you with.
  37 2011-08-26 00:30:05 vigilyn2 has joined
  38 2011-08-26 00:30:08 gjs278 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  39 2011-08-26 00:30:25 shadders has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  40 2011-08-26 00:32:18 gjs278 has joined
  41 2011-08-26 00:32:40 asher^ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  42 2011-08-26 00:33:32 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
  43 2011-08-26 00:34:07 Uri2011 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  44 2011-08-26 00:35:00 shadders has joined
  45 2011-08-26 00:37:06 magn3ts has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  46 2011-08-26 00:37:15 noagenda_ has joined
  47 2011-08-26 00:37:25 na__ has joined
  48 2011-08-26 00:37:28 na__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  49 2011-08-26 00:38:56 Rabbit67890 has quit (Quit: Rabbit67890)
  50 2011-08-26 00:39:06 hnz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  51 2011-08-26 00:39:33 denisx has joined
  52 2011-08-26 00:39:41 gjs278 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  53 2011-08-26 00:40:17 gjs278 has joined
  54 2011-08-26 00:42:22 BTCTrader has joined
  55 2011-08-26 00:42:22 BTCTrader has quit (Changing host)
  56 2011-08-26 00:42:22 BTCTrader has joined
  57 2011-08-26 00:44:10 noagendamarket has quit (Disconnected by services)
  58 2011-08-26 00:44:25 noagenda_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  59 2011-08-26 00:44:30 fabianhjr_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
  60 2011-08-26 00:44:35 noagenda_ has joined
  61 2011-08-26 00:44:39 na__ has joined
  62 2011-08-26 00:44:39 noagenda_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  63 2011-08-26 00:44:43 na__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  64 2011-08-26 00:44:50 noagenda_ has joined
  65 2011-08-26 00:44:56 na__ has joined
  66 2011-08-26 00:45:12 noagendamarket has joined
  67 2011-08-26 00:45:37 noagendamarket has quit (Disconnected by services)
  68 2011-08-26 00:45:42 na__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  69 2011-08-26 00:46:02 noagenda_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  70 2011-08-26 00:46:19 noagenda_ has joined
  71 2011-08-26 00:46:39 noagendamarket has joined
  72 2011-08-26 00:49:50 c00w has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
  73 2011-08-26 00:49:52 noagendamarket has quit (Disconnected by services)
  74 2011-08-26 00:49:54 Rabbit67890 has joined
  75 2011-08-26 00:50:27 noagenda_ has quit (Client Quit)
  76 2011-08-26 00:50:53 noagendamarket has joined
  77 2011-08-26 00:51:16 denisx has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  78 2011-08-26 00:51:25 denisx has joined
  79 2011-08-26 00:51:28 noagenda_ has joined
  80 2011-08-26 00:52:11 noagenda_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  81 2011-08-26 00:52:17 Taveren93HGK has quit ()
  82 2011-08-26 00:53:04 c00w has joined
  83 2011-08-26 00:53:20 magn3ts has joined
  84 2011-08-26 00:58:12 boatski has joined
  85 2011-08-26 00:59:16 <makomk> Anyway, I should go sleep....
  86 2011-08-26 01:12:27 c00w has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  87 2011-08-26 01:20:47 zapnap has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  88 2011-08-26 01:29:26 hypersoavp has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  89 2011-08-26 01:38:18 vigilyn2 has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  90 2011-08-26 01:39:51 hostiletnpb has joined
  91 2011-08-26 01:39:57 tynx has joined
  92 2011-08-26 01:42:29 tynx has quit (Client Quit)
  93 2011-08-26 01:43:07 sharky has joined
  94 2011-08-26 01:43:44 egecko has joined
  95 2011-08-26 01:44:47 <sharky> Hi there! anybody knows why all of my testnet blocks become orphaned after round about 130 confirmations?
  96 2011-08-26 01:45:28 <sharky> meant: somebody. (non native speaker)
  97 2011-08-26 01:45:53 someone42 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  98 2011-08-26 01:50:49 mibitcoin has joined
  99 2011-08-26 01:53:49 Backburn has quit ()
 100 2011-08-26 01:54:03 Daniel0108 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 101 2011-08-26 01:54:29 Daniel0108 has joined
 102 2011-08-26 01:55:48 <sharky> could someone pls give me a hint if it is unusual that blocks become orphans after 120+ confirmations or not?
 103 2011-08-26 01:58:08 <MagicalTux> sharky: make sure you are properly connected to a lot of peers
 104 2011-08-26 01:59:30 <sharky> thanx for the hint. bitcoind is connected to 30-40 peers (testnet). is that sufficient?
 105 2011-08-26 02:00:36 <MagicalTux> that should, I guess
 106 2011-08-26 02:03:58 semb has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 107 2011-08-26 02:05:02 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
 108 2011-08-26 02:06:09 JRWR has joined
 109 2011-08-26 02:06:09 JRWR has quit (Changing host)
 110 2011-08-26 02:06:09 JRWR has joined
 111 2011-08-26 02:06:15 JRWR has quit (Client Quit)
 112 2011-08-26 02:06:18 <sharky> hehe. ok. than i hope that i am simply to fearful and the following blocks stay mine.  but maybe you can imagine the terror this gives me while validating 'generating', 'scoring' and 'payout' for my pool.  oh man. this starts to get funny^^
 113 2011-08-26 02:07:17 JRWR has joined
 114 2011-08-26 02:09:07 Burgundy has quit (Quit: Burgundy)
 115 2011-08-26 02:09:23 Burgundy has joined
 116 2011-08-26 02:10:55 osmosis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 117 2011-08-26 02:17:18 JRWR has quit (Read error: No route to host)
 118 2011-08-26 02:18:54 JRWR has joined
 119 2011-08-26 02:18:54 JRWR has quit (Changing host)
 120 2011-08-26 02:18:54 JRWR has joined
 121 2011-08-26 02:20:41 Raccoon has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 122 2011-08-26 02:20:48 Raccoon has joined
 123 2011-08-26 02:21:45 osmosis has joined
 124 2011-08-26 02:22:17 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r3567b69e5eaa cgminer/ (ocl.c phatk110817.cl poclbm110817.cl): Remove fragile source patching for bitalign, vectors et. al and simply pass it with the compiler options.
 125 2011-08-26 02:22:18 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r91a2e7012bda cgminer/util.c: Actually check the value returned for the x-roll-ntime extension to make sure it isn't saying N.
 126 2011-08-26 02:34:29 Cablesaurus has joined
 127 2011-08-26 02:34:29 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
 128 2011-08-26 02:34:29 Cablesaurus has joined
 129 2011-08-26 02:35:56 <sacarlson> sharky: I've seen that happen on testnet,  not sure how many blocks of confirms it had when I lost it
 130 2011-08-26 02:37:12 <sacarlson> isn't there a command that limits number of connections on bitcoin?  I'm now getting 80 that is way more that I need,  I want to set max at 8 - 10
 131 2011-08-26 02:38:01 JRWR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 132 2011-08-26 02:38:37 brunner has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 133 2011-08-26 02:38:43 <sharky> afair there is only the possibillity to define peers... by this you can limit it. but that means you'll need a list of reliable peers to keep them configured in a static way
 134 2011-08-26 02:39:08 <sharky> sounds uncool somehow.
 135 2011-08-26 02:39:42 <sacarlson> sharky: sounds like the easy solution then is just to go -nolisten then
 136 2011-08-26 02:39:51 Rabbit67890 has quit (Quit: Rabbit67890)
 137 2011-08-26 02:41:52 JRWR has joined
 138 2011-08-26 02:41:53 JRWR has quit (Changing host)
 139 2011-08-26 02:41:53 JRWR has joined
 140 2011-08-26 02:43:52 Rabbit67890 has joined
 141 2011-08-26 02:43:53 JRWR has quit (Read error: No route to host)
 142 2011-08-26 02:44:31 hahuang65 has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
 143 2011-08-26 02:44:33 <forrestv> sacarlson, maxconnections=32
 144 2011-08-26 02:44:35 <sacarlson> sharky: seem when I grep max * in the source I did find a config setting -maxconnections  that defaults to 125,  it's just not in the bitcoind -?
 145 2011-08-26 02:44:58 <sacarlson> forrestv: yes I found it thanks
 146 2011-08-26 02:45:12 hahuang65 has joined
 147 2011-08-26 02:45:29 <forrestv> sacarlson, though consider just leaving it - by running an open node you're helping maintain the health of the p2p network
 148 2011-08-26 02:45:37 <forrestv> bandwidth usage should be fairly low
 149 2011-08-26 02:46:40 <sacarlson> forrestv: I also run a ISP with this network and I note it taking too much of my resources
 150 2011-08-26 02:47:04 <sharky> sacarlson, forrestv: cool, learned one more / but anyway. i'll have a nap. it just killed/orphaned round about 60 of my blocks. good night!
 151 2011-08-26 02:48:13 <forrestv> ah, ok
 152 2011-08-26 02:51:18 boatski has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 153 2011-08-26 02:53:13 Rabbit67890_ has joined
 154 2011-08-26 02:55:41 Rabbit67890 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 155 2011-08-26 02:55:41 Rabbit67890_ is now known as Rabbit67890
 156 2011-08-26 02:56:22 brunner has joined
 157 2011-08-26 02:58:56 brunner has quit (Client Quit)
 158 2011-08-26 02:59:44 TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)
 159 2011-08-26 02:59:59 [7] has joined
 160 2011-08-26 03:01:08 ChanneledDan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 161 2011-08-26 03:03:48 JRWR has joined
 162 2011-08-26 03:05:15 btcinsurerdotcom has joined
 163 2011-08-26 03:05:41 Rabbit67890 has quit (Quit: Rabbit67890)
 164 2011-08-26 03:08:45 pigeons has joined
 165 2011-08-26 03:11:28 peterpansen__ has joined
 166 2011-08-26 03:14:03 gjs278 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 167 2011-08-26 03:14:46 peterpansen_ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
 168 2011-08-26 03:14:51 gjs278 has joined
 169 2011-08-26 03:16:56 johntobey253 has joined
 170 2011-08-26 03:18:23 DontMindMe has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
 171 2011-08-26 03:25:35 flok has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 172 2011-08-26 03:30:48 flok has joined
 173 2011-08-26 03:38:07 mibitcoin has left ()
 174 2011-08-26 03:38:11 Acip has left ()
 175 2011-08-26 03:41:51 nhodges has joined
 176 2011-08-26 03:44:22 zeropointo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 177 2011-08-26 03:44:30 K_F has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 178 2011-08-26 03:45:04 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 179 2011-08-26 03:45:22 K_F has joined
 180 2011-08-26 03:45:51 jimon has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 181 2011-08-26 03:46:18 Matth1a3 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 182 2011-08-26 03:46:28 wirehead has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 183 2011-08-26 03:51:15 jimon has joined
 184 2011-08-26 03:51:18 sacredchao has joined
 185 2011-08-26 03:56:35 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Relax, its only ONES and ZEROS!)
 186 2011-08-26 03:57:03 theymos has joined
 187 2011-08-26 03:58:38 BurningToad has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 188 2011-08-26 03:58:39 Cablesaurus has joined
 189 2011-08-26 03:58:39 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
 190 2011-08-26 03:58:39 Cablesaurus has joined
 191 2011-08-26 04:09:47 c0ldaussie has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 192 2011-08-26 04:19:54 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 193 2011-08-26 04:20:12 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
 194 2011-08-26 04:22:52 llama has quit (Quit: llama)
 195 2011-08-26 04:25:04 llama has joined
 196 2011-08-26 04:25:04 llama has quit (Changing host)
 197 2011-08-26 04:25:04 llama has joined
 198 2011-08-26 04:25:20 RazielZ has joined
 199 2011-08-26 04:27:38 Matth1a3 has joined
 200 2011-08-26 04:29:44 llama has quit (Client Quit)
 201 2011-08-26 04:30:22 llama has joined
 202 2011-08-26 04:33:54 sacarlson has joined
 203 2011-08-26 04:42:00 johntobey253 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 204 2011-08-26 04:42:57 ThomasV has joined
 205 2011-08-26 04:47:18 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r882961..df1b9a cgminer/ (ChangeLog util.c NEWS configure.ac Makefile.am main.c README): (6 commits)
 206 2011-08-26 04:55:03 magn3ts has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 207 2011-08-26 05:00:38 io_error has joined
 208 2011-08-26 05:00:43 io_error has left ()
 209 2011-08-26 05:09:15 circelz has joined
 210 2011-08-26 05:10:38 gjs278 has joined
 211 2011-08-26 05:17:53 dvide_ has quit ()
 212 2011-08-26 05:18:58 magn3ts has joined
 213 2011-08-26 05:20:02 JRWR has quit ()
 214 2011-08-26 05:29:03 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 215 2011-08-26 05:29:32 <devrandom> ;;later tell BlueMatt sorry, did not get a chance to look at the gitian stuff
 216 2011-08-26 05:29:32 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
 217 2011-08-26 05:30:14 Doktor99_ has joined
 218 2011-08-26 05:30:49 Doktor99 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 219 2011-08-26 05:33:22 paul0 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 220 2011-08-26 05:33:31 paul0 has joined
 221 2011-08-26 05:42:07 random_cat has joined
 222 2011-08-26 05:43:35 upb has quit (Changing host)
 223 2011-08-26 05:43:35 upb has joined
 224 2011-08-26 05:46:48 osmosis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 225 2011-08-26 05:46:49 darkmethod has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 226 2011-08-26 05:47:08 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * 81a854e3f90b r33 /src/main/java/com/shadworld/poolserver/ (9 files in 4 dirs):
 227 2011-08-26 05:47:08 <CIA-101> poolserverj: - fix: FastEqualsSolution not serializable causing exception dumping workmap during safe restart
 228 2011-08-26 05:47:08 <CIA-101> poolserverj: - fix: nullpointer exception crashing cache cleaner thread leading to eventual OOM error.
 229 2011-08-26 05:47:08 <CIA-101> poolserverj: - added generic try catch to all threads to catch unknown exceptions and prevent
 230 2011-08-26 05:47:09 <CIA-101> poolserverj: them stopping. - need to add 'shutdownOnCriticalError' option then these errors
 231 2011-08-26 05:47:09 <CIA-101> poolserverj: can be handled by shutting down the server and a wrapper script can restart.
 232 2011-08-26 05:47:11 coderrr is now known as coderrr`brb
 233 2011-08-26 05:47:22 coderrr`brb is now known as coderrr
 234 2011-08-26 05:47:55 piotrpopieluch has joined
 235 2011-08-26 05:51:30 circelz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 236 2011-08-26 05:52:19 Matth1a3 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 237 2011-08-26 05:52:29 Obsi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 238 2011-08-26 05:55:42 BTCTrader has quit (Quit: BTCTrader)
 239 2011-08-26 05:59:39 asher^ has joined
 240 2011-08-26 06:06:02 bobke has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 241 2011-08-26 06:08:13 <cjdelisle> forrestv: I was looking at p2ppool on the wiki, I'm wondering why does it keep shares from before the last bitcoin block?
 242 2011-08-26 06:09:51 <cjdelisle> Also what happens if there are 10 transactions in the last share and I mine the next one, evicting a few of them, does my share get rejected? If it does then p2ppool can provide early confirmation for people who are too anxious to wait 10 minutes.
 243 2011-08-26 06:09:52 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 244 2011-08-26 06:11:13 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 245 2011-08-26 06:13:39 RobinPKR has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 246 2011-08-26 06:15:50 RobinPKR has joined
 247 2011-08-26 06:19:31 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: it's PPLNS. block boundaries mean nothing'
 248 2011-08-26 06:20:27 hostiletnpb has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 249 2011-08-26 06:20:29 <cjdelisle> hmm
 250 2011-08-26 06:20:50 hostiletnpb has joined
 251 2011-08-26 06:21:11 agricocb has joined
 252 2011-08-26 06:25:01 noagendamarket has joined
 253 2011-08-26 06:25:35 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 254 2011-08-26 06:26:40 brunner has joined
 255 2011-08-26 06:29:14 piotrpopieluch has quit (Quit: piotrpopieluch)
 256 2011-08-26 06:31:26 piotrpopieluch has joined
 257 2011-08-26 06:31:47 piotrpopieluch has quit (Client Quit)
 258 2011-08-26 06:36:29 magn3ts has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 259 2011-08-26 06:37:40 agricocb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 260 2011-08-26 06:43:17 BurningToad has joined
 261 2011-08-26 06:49:30 larsivi has joined
 262 2011-08-26 06:51:46 <lfm> ;;bc,stats
 263 2011-08-26 06:51:49 <gribble> Current Blocks: 142635 | Current Difficulty: 1805700.8361937 | Next Difficulty At Block: 143135 | Next Difficulty In: 500 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 7 hours, 35 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1848536.71629746
 264 2011-08-26 06:55:09 shadders has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 265 2011-08-26 07:00:57 agricocb has joined
 266 2011-08-26 07:08:39 coblee has quit (Quit: coblee)
 267 2011-08-26 07:10:26 newbie15 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 268 2011-08-26 07:10:42 mnass_ has joined
 269 2011-08-26 07:12:35 fnord0 has joined
 270 2011-08-26 07:14:00 huk has quit ()
 271 2011-08-26 07:14:20 newbie1 has joined
 272 2011-08-26 07:14:20 mnass has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 273 2011-08-26 07:15:17 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 274 2011-08-26 07:15:43 copumpkin has joined
 275 2011-08-26 07:18:09 abragin has joined
 276 2011-08-26 07:18:09 abragin has quit (Changing host)
 277 2011-08-26 07:18:10 abragin has joined
 278 2011-08-26 07:18:38 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 279 2011-08-26 07:18:47 rafsoaken1 has joined
 280 2011-08-26 07:32:38 SomeoneWeird has joined
 281 2011-08-26 07:32:58 <SomeoneWeird> Can someone help me port my bitcoin client off the main network plz?
 282 2011-08-26 07:33:09 <SomeoneWeird> And for the 500th time, no, im not making a new currency.
 283 2011-08-26 07:33:46 <cjdelisle> use multicoin?
 284 2011-08-26 07:34:07 <SomeoneWeird> trying
 285 2011-08-26 07:34:26 <SomeoneWeird> i've got a new genesis block but i can't get my client to work with the new code
 286 2011-08-26 07:39:39 AStove has joined
 287 2011-08-26 07:41:48 coblee has joined
 288 2011-08-26 07:41:58 erus` has joined
 289 2011-08-26 07:45:07 newbie1 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 290 2011-08-26 07:45:10 <asher^> what are you doing with it SomeoneWeird?
 291 2011-08-26 07:45:36 <SomeoneWeird> asher^ trying to get something working but need a different blockchain
 292 2011-08-26 07:46:00 <asher^> what are you trying to get working?
 293 2011-08-26 07:46:22 <SomeoneWeird> im gunna try and do a poc
 294 2011-08-26 07:46:45 <asher^> poc?
 295 2011-08-26 07:46:55 <SomeoneWeird> proof of concept
 296 2011-08-26 07:58:24 hahuang65 has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 297 2011-08-26 08:01:20 <sharky> good morning coins and coinesses!
 298 2011-08-26 08:02:31 gronager has joined
 299 2011-08-26 08:14:16 nr9 has joined
 300 2011-08-26 08:14:25 gronager has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 301 2011-08-26 08:21:36 zamgo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 302 2011-08-26 08:30:00 slush has joined
 303 2011-08-26 08:31:08 Wamo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 304 2011-08-26 08:31:45 blishchrot has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
 305 2011-08-26 08:33:53 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 306 2011-08-26 08:37:29 shadders has joined
 307 2011-08-26 08:38:12 danbri has joined
 308 2011-08-26 08:42:56 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 309 2011-08-26 08:44:35 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 310 2011-08-26 08:45:01 copumpkin has joined
 311 2011-08-26 08:58:37 wolfspraul has joined
 312 2011-08-26 08:58:46 altamic has joined
 313 2011-08-26 09:00:51 Clipse has joined
 314 2011-08-26 09:06:54 jaromil_ is now known as jaromil
 315 2011-08-26 09:10:44 <Keefe> does the bitcoin network protocol have some sort of multi-message format? for example, multiple addr or inv in a single packet?
 316 2011-08-26 09:10:58 <Keefe> i'm trying to understand some stuff i captured with wireshark
 317 2011-08-26 09:12:06 num1 has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
 318 2011-08-26 09:12:11 <Keefe> unless i'm missing something, what i'm seeing with wireshark isn't explained here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification
 319 2011-08-26 09:15:38 <tcatm> Keefe: IIRC it does support that
 320 2011-08-26 09:17:30 <Keefe> besides the source code, do you know of any documentation of that?
 321 2011-08-26 09:19:57 <tcatm> ArtForz's half-node has quite readable code
 322 2011-08-26 09:20:48 <tcatm> basically, msg_inv takes an array of CInv
 323 2011-08-26 09:24:24 brunner has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 324 2011-08-26 09:26:31 Joric has joined
 325 2011-08-26 09:27:55 <makomk> sharky: someone has been launching attacks on Testnet to orphan blocks after a large number of confirmations, apparently.
 326 2011-08-26 09:30:01 <sharky> wow! thank's for that info! hmm. is something known about how they achieve this and what counter measures can be taken?
 327 2011-08-26 09:30:51 <sharky> and: may i be of some help?
 328 2011-08-26 09:31:00 <makomk> Almost certainly brute force hashing power. Testnet doesn't have enough miners to be secure...
 329 2011-08-26 09:31:00 <wumpus> the testnet has very low difficulty, so  anyone with a large mining farm can pull it off
 330 2011-08-26 09:31:21 <wumpus> has been the case for very long.. the testnet sucks, it's better to use testnet in a box if you want to do reliable testing
 331 2011-08-26 09:31:23 <sharky> ah, ok. so just 'normal' betrayal -.-
 332 2011-08-26 09:31:44 <makomk> (It's one of the reasons the Bitcoin developers don't want anyone to use it for real transactions.)
 333 2011-08-26 09:33:28 <sharky> yeah, i just use it to check whether my payout logic works - and i saw the generated coins on my 'personal purse' bitcoin client before the attack. so it is fine for me (for today)
 334 2011-08-26 09:34:20 <sharky> cool. thanks for the info to you all. now the things make a little bit more sense. this saves my day :)
 335 2011-08-26 09:40:47 <MobiusL> ;;stats
 336 2011-08-26 09:40:47 <gribble> I have 20 registered users with 24 registered hostmasks; 1 owner and 0 admins.
 337 2011-08-26 09:41:26 <MobiusL> ;;help
 338 2011-08-26 09:41:26 <gribble> The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/
 339 2011-08-26 09:41:39 <MobiusL> ;;commands
 340 2011-08-26 09:41:39 <gribble> ?, about, action, add, alert, alias, announce, announce add, announce list, announce remove, any, aol, apply, apropos, asks, at, auth, author, azn, ban add, ban list, ban remove, base, bashorg, bc,24hprc, bc,avgprc, bc,bcm, bc,bitpenny, bc,blocks, bc,btceur, bc,btcgbp, bc,btcguild, bc,btcrub, bc,btcto, bc,calc, bc,calcd, bc,channels, bc,convert, bc,deepbit, bc,diff, bc,diffchange, (9 more messages)
 341 2011-08-26 09:41:51 <MobiusL> ;;more
 342 2011-08-26 09:41:51 <gribble> bc,eligius, bc,estimate, bc,exchb, bc,fx, bc,gen, bc,gend, bc,help, bc,hextarget, bc,interval, bc,mtgox, bc,mtgoxask, bc,mtgoxbid, bc,mtgoxlast, bc,nethash, bc,nexttarget, bc,ozcoin, bc,p2pool, bc,p2pooldiff, bc,p2poolnmc, bc,price, bc,prob, bc,probd, bc,slushpool, bc,spotestimate, bc,stats, bc,swepool, bc,timetonext, bc,totalbc, bc,tradehill, bc,wiki, bc,xau, bids, binary, blockmonitor, (8 more messages)
 343 2011-08-26 09:42:04 <MobiusL> ;;more
 344 2011-08-26 09:42:04 <gribble> bold, book, bot, botsnack, boturl, botweb, buy, cache, calc, call, cand, capabilities, capability add, capability list, capability remove, capability set, capability setdefault, capability unset, capitalize, ceq, change, changekey, changename, channel, channeldb, channels, channelstats, cheer, chr, cif, clearq, cmd, coin, collect, color, colorize, command, commands, concat, config, (7 more messages)
 345 2011-08-26 09:42:16 <MobiusL> ;;bc,stats
 346 2011-08-26 09:42:18 <gribble> Current Blocks: 142657 | Current Difficulty: 1805700.8361937 | Next Difficulty At Block: 143135 | Next Difficulty In: 478 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 3 hours, 1 minute, and 10 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1855756.41721717
 347 2011-08-26 09:42:39 <MobiusL> ;;bc,eligius
 348 2011-08-26 09:42:39 <UukGoblin> ;;botsnack
 349 2011-08-26 09:42:39 <gribble> Forget the snack, just send me some bitcoins at 1MgD6rah5zUgEGYZnNmdpnXMaDR3itKYzU :)
 350 2011-08-26 09:42:40 <gribble> 346288896.518
 351 2011-08-26 09:42:56 <UukGoblin> heh
 352 2011-08-26 09:42:58 <Keefe> thanks tcatm. one other question. i've been running this wireshark cap for quite a while, 76 min, and saw only one "block" msg. but my client is working on catching up with the last 10k blocks or so. shouldn't i see many "block" msgs on the wire, or is a different msg used for old blocks?
 353 2011-08-26 09:44:04 pixglen has quit (Quit: pixglen)
 354 2011-08-26 09:48:06 <tcatm> Keefe: I *think* you should see more "block" msgs but I'm not sure.
 355 2011-08-26 09:49:51 rafsoaken1 has quit (Quit: rafsoaken1)
 356 2011-08-26 09:50:20 <lfm> ;;bc,blocks
 357 2011-08-26 09:50:21 <gribble> 142657
 358 2011-08-26 09:51:00 <BitManiac> ;;bc,prob
 359 2011-08-26 09:51:00 <gribble> (bc,prob <an alias, at least 1 argument>) -- Alias for "math calc 1-exp(-$1*1000 * [seconds $*] / (2**32* [bc,diff]))".
 360 2011-08-26 09:51:01 <lfm> Keefe: how many connections do you have?
 361 2011-08-26 09:51:11 <Keefe> 8
 362 2011-08-26 09:51:15 <lfm> k
 363 2011-08-26 09:51:27 <Keefe> and yes i am getting blocks, very slowly
 364 2011-08-26 09:51:42 <Keefe> i think i've been running for a few hours and have only received 1k
 365 2011-08-26 09:52:05 <Keefe> that prompted me to fire up wireshark and try to understand why
 366 2011-08-26 09:52:11 <Keefe> i'm using v0.3.23
 367 2011-08-26 09:52:18 <lfm> ok ya, the last blocks are slower partly cuz they are bigger bllocks with more transactions in each block
 368 2011-08-26 09:52:31 <lfm> Keefe: also 0.3.24 is faster
 369 2011-08-26 09:52:41 <Keefe> i've heard that cpu and disk io is the bottleneck, but i'm not seeing that
 370 2011-08-26 09:53:02 <lfm> there are some bugs in 0.3.23 that make the download slower
 371 2011-08-26 09:53:10 <Keefe> probably less than 2% cpu
 372 2011-08-26 09:53:47 <Keefe> mmk, i'll upgrade now
 373 2011-08-26 09:53:49 <asher^> i recently built both, .23 took about 3 hours, .24 took about 5 mins
 374 2011-08-26 09:53:57 <Keefe> nice
 375 2011-08-26 09:54:27 <asher^> and both got the chain via lan, so it wasnt a bandwidth or connection issue
 376 2011-08-26 09:54:45 <lfm> ya , by lan should be faster anyway
 377 2011-08-26 09:55:52 <Joric> why the price falls? $9.6 already
 378 2011-08-26 09:56:16 <lfm> generally cuz someone is selling off a bunch of btc
 379 2011-08-26 09:56:50 <lfm> ;;bc,mtgox
 380 2011-08-26 09:56:51 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":10.78,"low":9.1,"avg":9.818821873,"vwap":9.863979056,"vol":59140,"last":9.74,"buy":9.67,"sell":9.74}}
 381 2011-08-26 09:57:57 noagendamarket has joined
 382 2011-08-26 10:02:25 MobiusL has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 383 2011-08-26 10:04:40 MobiusL has joined
 384 2011-08-26 10:07:42 m00p has joined
 385 2011-08-26 10:09:07 Joric has quit ()
 386 2011-08-26 10:11:30 marf_away has joined
 387 2011-08-26 10:11:33 <marf_away> hello
 388 2011-08-26 10:11:39 <lfm> hi
 389 2011-08-26 10:11:39 <marf_away> 50 minits wthout block...
 390 2011-08-26 10:11:50 <lfm> ;;bc,blocks
 391 2011-08-26 10:11:51 <gribble> 142657
 392 2011-08-26 10:12:01 <marf_away> why cant we introduce something like in solidcoin to bitcoin?
 393 2011-08-26 10:12:15 <lfm> then it wouldnt be bitcoin
 394 2011-08-26 10:12:17 <marf_away> why is it bad?
 395 2011-08-26 10:12:36 <marf_away> s it unsave?
 396 2011-08-26 10:12:58 <lfm> its math, solidcoin isnt really better
 397 2011-08-26 10:13:17 <marf_away> but it feels fater
 398 2011-08-26 10:13:19 <marf_away> faster
 399 2011-08-26 10:13:30 <lfm> ya feeling arnt math either
 400 2011-08-26 10:13:36 ThomasV has joined
 401 2011-08-26 10:13:46 <UukGoblin> "constant transaction fees" "so it's easier to predict"?! duude
 402 2011-08-26 10:13:47 <marf_away> the normal user dont considers math, he fells
 403 2011-08-26 10:13:56 <marf_away> i dont want thaht
 404 2011-08-26 10:14:00 <marf_away> i want 3 minit blocks
 405 2011-08-26 10:14:08 <marf_away> and upwards max 10%
 406 2011-08-26 10:14:13 <UukGoblin> I want 10 minute blocks
 407 2011-08-26 10:14:15 <marf_away> and down *0.25
 408 2011-08-26 10:14:31 <marf_away> why?
 409 2011-08-26 10:14:32 <noagendamarket> just use solidcoin
 410 2011-08-26 10:14:36 <lfm> marf_away: go buy solidcoin then but dont come crying to us when you get scammed
 411 2011-08-26 10:14:46 <UukGoblin> marf_away, because in the future, I might not be able to cope with latency with 3 minute blocks
 412 2011-08-26 10:14:52 <marf_away> no i think bitcoin can be improved
 413 2011-08-26 10:15:08 <marf_away> than in future change it again ;D
 414 2011-08-26 10:15:12 <lfm> you and 1000s of other people who prefer feelings to math
 415 2011-08-26 10:15:30 <marf_away> we are the users, we are the kings
 416 2011-08-26 10:15:40 <lfm> so go use solidcoin
 417 2011-08-26 10:15:47 <tcatm> a 3 minute block is only about 1/3 as good as a 10 minute block and we already know that a 10 minute block is pretty unreliable
 418 2011-08-26 10:16:07 <marf_away> people dont to care it seems
 419 2011-08-26 10:16:10 <UukGoblin> "unreliable"?
 420 2011-08-26 10:16:24 <wumpus> people care as soon as they get exploited
 421 2011-08-26 10:16:29 <Blitzboom> i think the mybitcoin users cared :D
 422 2011-08-26 10:16:35 <tcatm> UukGoblin: 1-block forks/splits are common
 423 2011-08-26 10:16:37 <lfm> marf_away: its why bitcoin recomends you wait for 6 blocks. wed recomend you wait for 18 blocks on solidcoin
 424 2011-08-26 10:16:53 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 425 2011-08-26 10:17:00 <marf_away> ok
 426 2011-08-26 10:17:04 <marf_away> no 3 minit blocks
 427 2011-08-26 10:17:15 <marf_away> what about a faste difficulty adaption?
 428 2011-08-26 10:17:16 <UukGoblin> tcatm, ah, that's because our internets are slow
 429 2011-08-26 10:17:20 d1g1t4l has joined
 430 2011-08-26 10:17:48 <lfm> partly internets and partly disk drives
 431 2011-08-26 10:18:14 <marf_away> 1 houre without block
 432 2011-08-26 10:18:22 <tcatm> I'd like to see good double spend detection instead of faster blocks
 433 2011-08-26 10:18:22 <marf_away> useability = 0
 434 2011-08-26 10:18:46 <lfm> marf_away: thats odd, seems like lots of people use bitcoin.
 435 2011-08-26 10:18:47 <UukGoblin> tcatm, is current double spend detection bad?
 436 2011-08-26 10:19:01 <tcatm> UukGoblin: IIRC there's none built into the client
 437 2011-08-26 10:19:09 <marf_away> more would use it if it were more userfrendly
 438 2011-08-26 10:19:29 <lfm> double spend protection is ok, not the same as double spend detection
 439 2011-08-26 10:19:47 <marf_away> well devs a said my opinion, iam sure many others think so too, keep it in mind
 440 2011-08-26 10:19:48 <UukGoblin> tcatm, I don't understand... the whole idea of the bitcoin client is to prevent double-spending, right?
 441 2011-08-26 10:19:58 <lfm> marf_away: we answered you. now, do you have anything new to say?
 442 2011-08-26 10:20:16 <UukGoblin> oh, protection vs detection... hm
 443 2011-08-26 10:20:20 <marf_away> no
 444 2011-08-26 10:20:20 <tcatm> UukGoblin: yes, but it takes time. It would be great if we could detect double spends earlier
 445 2011-08-26 10:20:33 <UukGoblin> right, I see
 446 2011-08-26 10:20:54 <lfm> UukGoblin: ya like actually spit out that txn has a double spend decteded and this one has been honered
 447 2011-08-26 10:21:46 <UukGoblin> I'd like to have an easier option of intentional double-spend fee-increase txn
 448 2011-08-26 10:22:05 <lfm> UukGoblin: like a txn override?
 449 2011-08-26 10:22:09 <UukGoblin> yeah
 450 2011-08-26 10:22:11 <tcatm> I wonder if the (dead) subscription/channel code in net.cpp could be used to broadcast information about double spends
 451 2011-08-26 10:22:33 piuk has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 452 2011-08-26 10:22:56 <lfm> tcatm: I have a post mortem pgm that looks for evidence of double spend attempts in the block chain records
 453 2011-08-26 10:23:16 <tcatm> lfm: interesting
 454 2011-08-26 10:23:19 toffoo has quit ()
 455 2011-08-26 10:23:29 <lfm> tcatm: its not really tested yet cuz I cant find any examples
 456 2011-08-26 10:23:51 <tcatm> how does it detect them?
 457 2011-08-26 10:24:08 <tcatm> there were some double spend attempts but only one transaction made it into the chain
 458 2011-08-26 10:24:24 <lfm> it would only see one if  both txn got into different forks of the block chain.
 459 2011-08-26 10:24:44 <lfm> tcatm ya I prolly ownt see most
 460 2011-08-26 10:24:50 <lfm> wont
 461 2011-08-26 10:25:54 <lfm> there might be evidence in the debug.log too , im not sure
 462 2011-08-26 10:28:13 <lfm> perhaps we could make a system to produce a whole bunch of double spend attempts to see what tools will detect them
 463 2011-08-26 10:28:36 <tcatm> we could do that on testnet
 464 2011-08-26 10:30:30 <lfm> make a whole bunch of wallets with 0.01 in each and duplicate them then syncronously try to spend them from two places
 465 2011-08-26 10:31:04 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
 466 2011-08-26 10:35:58 wolfspraul has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 467 2011-08-26 10:36:08 wolfspraul has joined
 468 2011-08-26 10:43:44 pixglen has joined
 469 2011-08-26 10:50:58 kfj98w2398492834 has joined
 470 2011-08-26 10:51:03 zamgo has joined
 471 2011-08-26 10:51:08 <kfj98w2398492834> is this a logged channel?
 472 2011-08-26 10:51:31 Dyaheon has joined
 473 2011-08-26 10:52:00 moa7 has joined
 474 2011-08-26 10:52:37 <SomeoneWeird> yes
 475 2011-08-26 10:56:38 <UukGoblin> I log all channels I'm on...
 476 2011-08-26 10:56:53 <lfm> kfj98w2398492834: why you ask?
 477 2011-08-26 10:58:53 d1g1t4l has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 478 2011-08-26 11:01:43 DontMindMe has joined
 479 2011-08-26 11:07:03 AlonzoTG has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 480 2011-08-26 11:13:21 sabayonuser has joined
 481 2011-08-26 11:19:35 sabayonuser has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 482 2011-08-26 11:20:25 SomeoneWeird has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 483 2011-08-26 11:22:06 localhost has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 484 2011-08-26 11:22:59 AlonzoTG has joined
 485 2011-08-26 11:23:29 TheAncientGoat has joined
 486 2011-08-26 11:23:47 sabayonuser has joined
 487 2011-08-26 11:24:06 pixglen has quit (Quit: pixglen)
 488 2011-08-26 11:26:13 voot545 has joined
 489 2011-08-26 11:27:20 kfj98w2398492834 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 490 2011-08-26 11:27:55 sabayonuser2 has joined
 491 2011-08-26 11:28:23 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
 492 2011-08-26 11:28:44 sabayonuser3 has joined
 493 2011-08-26 11:29:15 baz_ has joined
 494 2011-08-26 11:29:32 sabayonuser3 has left ()
 495 2011-08-26 11:32:28 sabayonuser2 has quit (Client Quit)
 496 2011-08-26 11:32:35 sabayonuser has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 497 2011-08-26 11:32:53 baz_ has quit (Client Quit)
 498 2011-08-26 11:33:04 sharky has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 499 2011-08-26 11:33:47 baz_ has joined
 500 2011-08-26 11:34:36 KenArmitt has joined
 501 2011-08-26 11:36:44 BTCTrader has joined
 502 2011-08-26 11:36:44 BTCTrader has quit (Changing host)
 503 2011-08-26 11:36:45 BTCTrader has joined
 504 2011-08-26 11:40:28 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 505 2011-08-26 11:40:38 kish has joined
 506 2011-08-26 11:43:28 paul0 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 507 2011-08-26 11:43:36 paul0 has joined
 508 2011-08-26 11:45:13 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 509 2011-08-26 11:45:38 copumpkin has joined
 510 2011-08-26 11:45:40 vigilyn has joined
 511 2011-08-26 11:48:40 b4epoche_ has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 512 2011-08-26 11:52:28 SomeoneWeird has joined
 513 2011-08-26 11:52:44 <SomeoneWeird> Anyone around that can run me through on how to compile the client on win?
 514 2011-08-26 11:54:42 bobke has joined
 515 2011-08-26 11:59:21 hostiletnpb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 516 2011-08-26 11:59:53 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 517 2011-08-26 12:01:36 Matth1a3 has joined
 518 2011-08-26 12:02:15 MobiusL_ has joined
 519 2011-08-26 12:05:36 MobiusL has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 520 2011-08-26 12:06:02 b4epoche_ has joined
 521 2011-08-26 12:09:46 fiercecasgyr has joined
 522 2011-08-26 12:11:26 moa7 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 523 2011-08-26 12:20:56 <baz_> anyone here implemented mtgox api client in Java? I find the authentication quite confusing, haven't done this kind of signing in java before
 524 2011-08-26 12:26:09 Clipse has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 525 2011-08-26 12:26:19 Clipse has joined
 526 2011-08-26 12:29:00 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 527 2011-08-26 12:29:24 datagutt has joined
 528 2011-08-26 12:29:27 MobiusL_ is now known as MobiusL
 529 2011-08-26 12:29:59 lookdang has joined
 530 2011-08-26 12:31:02 JRWR has joined
 531 2011-08-26 12:31:03 JRWR has quit (Changing host)
 532 2011-08-26 12:31:03 JRWR has joined
 533 2011-08-26 12:31:47 voot545 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 534 2011-08-26 12:31:56 voot545 has joined
 535 2011-08-26 12:31:59 voot545 has quit (Changing host)
 536 2011-08-26 12:31:59 voot545 has joined
 537 2011-08-26 12:32:04 zamgo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 538 2011-08-26 12:36:33 BTCTrader has quit (Quit: BTCTrader)
 539 2011-08-26 12:37:08 dbosk has joined
 540 2011-08-26 12:37:53 altamic has joined
 541 2011-08-26 12:37:53 altamic has quit (Changing host)
 542 2011-08-26 12:37:53 altamic has joined
 543 2011-08-26 12:38:53 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 544 2011-08-26 12:39:41 kish has joined
 545 2011-08-26 12:40:28 larsivi has joined
 546 2011-08-26 12:40:49 hugolp has joined
 547 2011-08-26 12:47:51 cokein has joined
 548 2011-08-26 12:49:00 JRWR has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 549 2011-08-26 12:50:24 huk has joined
 550 2011-08-26 12:50:42 <Cory> doublec your exchange's down. :(
 551 2011-08-26 12:51:28 voot545 has quit ()
 552 2011-08-26 12:52:26 <doublec> Cory: which exchange
 553 2011-08-26 12:52:51 <Cory> Looks like it's working now, but people were complaining about the SC exchange.
 554 2011-08-26 12:53:02 <doublec> looks up to me
 555 2011-08-26 12:53:09 <SomeoneWeird> lol
 556 2011-08-26 12:53:16 <Cory> Yup, about 10 minutes ago I guess it was down. :P
 557 2011-08-26 12:53:25 b4epoche_ has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
 558 2011-08-26 12:56:22 dvide has joined
 559 2011-08-26 12:56:23 datagutt has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 560 2011-08-26 13:02:55 JRWR has joined
 561 2011-08-26 13:05:22 <Cory> I bet you're aware of the order book, doublec.
 562 2011-08-26 13:05:29 BTCTrader has joined
 563 2011-08-26 13:06:08 datagutt has joined
 564 2011-08-26 13:06:52 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 565 2011-08-26 13:07:17 copumpkin has joined
 566 2011-08-26 13:07:58 KenArmitt has quit ()
 567 2011-08-26 13:11:46 sytse_ has joined
 568 2011-08-26 13:11:52 Dagger4 has joined
 569 2011-08-26 13:12:42 npouilla1d has joined
 570 2011-08-26 13:14:47 MT`AwAy has joined
 571 2011-08-26 13:14:55 altamic_ has joined
 572 2011-08-26 13:14:59 MT`AwAy has quit (Changing host)
 573 2011-08-26 13:14:59 MT`AwAy has joined
 574 2011-08-26 13:15:24 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 575 2011-08-26 13:15:25 altamic_ is now known as altamic
 576 2011-08-26 13:15:33 altamic has quit (Client Quit)
 577 2011-08-26 13:15:47 paul0 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 578 2011-08-26 13:15:53 paul0_ has joined
 579 2011-08-26 13:16:12 zapnap has joined
 580 2011-08-26 13:19:16 hugolp has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
 581 2011-08-26 13:19:33 fahadsadah_ has joined
 582 2011-08-26 13:19:41 Dagger4 is now known as Dagger3
 583 2011-08-26 13:20:12 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 584 2011-08-26 13:21:14 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 585 2011-08-26 13:21:38 JRWR has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 586 2011-08-26 13:22:40 kjj_AFK is now known as kjj
 587 2011-08-26 13:22:41 JRWR has joined
 588 2011-08-26 13:22:41 JRWR has quit (Changing host)
 589 2011-08-26 13:22:41 JRWR has joined
 590 2011-08-26 13:22:59 jackmcbarn has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 591 2011-08-26 13:25:16 lookdang has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 592 2011-08-26 13:26:18 jackmcbarn has joined
 593 2011-08-26 13:27:45 WakiMiko_ has joined
 594 2011-08-26 13:29:39 Clipse has joined
 595 2011-08-26 13:29:53 MT`AwAy is now known as MagicalTux
 596 2011-08-26 13:30:40 WakiMiko has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 597 2011-08-26 13:33:47 somuchwin has joined
 598 2011-08-26 13:33:57 somuchwin2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 599 2011-08-26 13:36:49 fiercecasgyr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 600 2011-08-26 13:37:20 eianpsego has joined
 601 2011-08-26 13:38:11 Baksch has joined
 602 2011-08-26 13:38:28 fiercecasgyr has joined
 603 2011-08-26 13:38:53 brunner has joined
 604 2011-08-26 13:48:14 <b4epoche> is there a conversion (I know it would be very rough) flops to hash/s?
 605 2011-08-26 13:48:55 <b4epoche> I'm just trying to get a rough estimate of how many hashes/s a supercomputer might be able to perform
 606 2011-08-26 13:49:14 <Zoiah> b4epoche: no.
 607 2011-08-26 13:49:28 <kjj> you can find various figures around, but they are all meaningless
 608 2011-08-26 13:49:29 <Zoiah> b4epoche: this is dependant on the instructionset.
 609 2011-08-26 13:49:38 <SomeoneWeird> b4epoche, the answer is not very many
 610 2011-08-26 13:49:54 <kjj> the problem is that hashing isn't done in floating point
 611 2011-08-26 13:49:58 <b4epoche> I know it's going to be very rough and processor dependent, etc...
 612 2011-08-26 13:50:04 <b4epoche> kjj:  I know
 613 2011-08-26 13:50:16 Clipse has quit (Quit: Clipse)
 614 2011-08-26 13:50:23 <b4epoche> this is not something that needs to be very accurate
 615 2011-08-26 13:50:33 <kjj> what people usually do is look at the hashing rate of a CPU, and then look at how many FLOPS it could do if it was doing them
 616 2011-08-26 13:51:10 <kjj> but that is nonsense from start to finish, and it gets worse when you compare something like the global hash rate to the ratio for some particular CPU
 617 2011-08-26 13:51:17 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 618 2011-08-26 13:51:48 <Zoiah> b4epoche: the difference can massive. Just look at the performance between ATi and NVIDIA even though the FLOPS is not too differing.
 619 2011-08-26 13:52:22 <b4epoche> hmm…  maybe instead of making a comparison to supercomputers I can make comparisons to number of GPUs
 620 2011-08-26 13:52:35 zamgo has joined
 621 2011-08-26 13:52:42 <SomeoneWeird> would be better/easier
 622 2011-08-26 13:52:53 <b4epoche> I'm just trying to demonstrate how hard it would be overrun block chain
 623 2011-08-26 13:53:04 <SomeoneWeird> hard
 624 2011-08-26 13:53:20 <b4epoche> yes, that's pretty obvious
 625 2011-08-26 13:53:48 <Zoiah> b4epoche: Radeon 6970, theorectical GFLOPS: 2703. Hashing: 375. ~7GFLOP per Mhash
 626 2011-08-26 13:53:52 Baksch has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 627 2011-08-26 13:54:46 <Zoiah> b4epoche: GTX 580, theoretical GFLOPS: 1581. Hashing: 140. ~11GLOP per Mhash.
 628 2011-08-26 13:55:30 p0s has joined
 629 2011-08-26 13:55:39 <Zoiah> b4epoche: Core i7 2600k. GFLOPS: 108. Hashing: 4. ~27GFLOP per Mhash.
 630 2011-08-26 13:55:52 <b4epoche> I was trying to get a very rough estimate of the hash rate of a 8 TFLOPS supercomputer (current fastest)
 631 2011-08-26 13:56:24 <b4epoche> oops 8 PetaFLOPS
 632 2011-08-26 13:56:27 <Zoiah> Yeah.
 633 2011-08-26 13:56:29 <Zoiah> I figured. ;)
 634 2011-08-26 13:57:07 <kjj> it still doesn't make sense.  CPUs aren't atomic things, they have parts
 635 2011-08-26 13:57:09 <Zoiah> If it's as efficient as the Core i7, 8000000 / 27 = 296296Mhash/s
 636 2011-08-26 13:58:18 <b4epoche> kjj:  I know it doesn't make sense but it should be an order of magnitude estimate
 637 2011-08-26 13:58:20 <kjj> the integer unit and the floating point unit are totally different things.  this is obscured by the fact that they aren't sold as distinct packages
 638 2011-08-26 13:58:39 egecko has quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
 639 2011-08-26 13:58:41 <Zoiah> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/
 640 2011-08-26 13:58:58 TheAncientGoat has joined
 641 2011-08-26 13:58:59 TheAncientGoat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 642 2011-08-26 13:59:01 <b4epoche> 68544 SPARC64 VIIIfx CPUs
 643 2011-08-26 13:59:26 <Zoiah> Network is currently doing 150Thash/s.
 644 2011-08-26 13:59:34 <kjj> 15, not 150
 645 2011-08-26 13:59:43 <Zoiah> Right, sorry, 15Thash/s
 646 2011-08-26 14:00:06 <Zoiah> The supercomputer would be doing 0.296Thash/s
 647 2011-08-26 14:00:11 CydeWeys has joined
 648 2011-08-26 14:00:20 dbosk has quit (Quit: leaving)
 649 2011-08-26 14:00:24 <b4epoche> yep...
 650 2011-08-26 14:00:36 <kjj> if you want this to be meaningful at all, you need to look at the CPUs, and find the performance of their integer units
 651 2011-08-26 14:00:43 <Zoiah> But the assumptions could be way off.
 652 2011-08-26 14:01:19 <b4epoche> ^^ is the cpu the in that supercomputer
 653 2011-08-26 14:01:41 <Zoiah> Doesn't seem to be any performance figures for mining on Sparc.
 654 2011-08-26 14:01:49 <b4epoche> okay…  gotta go teach class.  ttyl.
 655 2011-08-26 14:01:51 <Zoiah> Ttyl.
 656 2011-08-26 14:02:06 <Rozz> hmmz
 657 2011-08-26 14:02:11 <b4epoche> yea, I was surprised.  Didn't know anyone was still using that architecture
 658 2011-08-26 14:02:17 <Zoiah> sun fire v120 (sun4u), sparcv9 650 MHz - 109.6 Khash/s
 659 2011-08-26 14:02:18 <Zoiah> sun netra t2000 (sun4v), sparcv9 1.2 GHz - 117.4 Khash/s (strange)
 660 2011-08-26 14:03:20 vigilyn2 has joined
 661 2011-08-26 14:03:29 <Zoiah> Sparc architecture seems to be horrible for hashing.
 662 2011-08-26 14:04:03 Katapult has joined
 663 2011-08-26 14:04:05 <kjj> the CPUs picked for HPC are usually picked for their floating point performance.
 664 2011-08-26 14:04:22 <Zoiah> Let's assume it scales linearly with MHz with the best case Sparc.
 665 2011-08-26 14:04:44 zeta-51b` has joined
 666 2011-08-26 14:04:44 <Zoiah> So that's be 327Khash per Sparc core.
 667 2011-08-26 14:05:07 <Zoiah> 68544 SPARC CPUs, 548352 SPARC core.
 668 2011-08-26 14:05:18 <Zoiah> 179311104 Khash/sec
 669 2011-08-26 14:05:22 <Zoiah> 179311 Mhash/sec
 670 2011-08-26 14:05:26 <Zoiah> 179 Ghash/sec
 671 2011-08-26 14:05:32 <kjj> as far as I know, the last superscalar integer development outside of ATI was Intel's MMX.  after that, it has all been floating point.
 672 2011-08-26 14:05:55 bobke_ has joined
 673 2011-08-26 14:05:56 <Zoiah> That's actually not too far off based on the FLOP/Hash ratio.
 674 2011-08-26 14:06:06 <Zoiah> 179 Ghash/s vs. 296Ghash/s.
 675 2011-08-26 14:06:13 Kissat has joined
 676 2011-08-26 14:06:40 <Zoiah> Either way, wouldn't dent the mining graph.
 677 2011-08-26 14:06:54 jmeller has joined
 678 2011-08-26 14:07:48 ferrousw1eel has joined
 679 2011-08-26 14:08:05 mabus_ has joined
 680 2011-08-26 14:08:08 btcinsurerdotcom has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 681 2011-08-26 14:08:19 Crshman has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 682 2011-08-26 14:08:21 dooglus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 683 2011-08-26 14:08:25 dooglus has joined
 684 2011-08-26 14:08:27 dooglus has quit (Changing host)
 685 2011-08-26 14:08:27 dooglus has joined
 686 2011-08-26 14:08:44 btcinsurerdotcom has joined
 687 2011-08-26 14:08:45 BGL has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 688 2011-08-26 14:08:54 Katapult_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 689 2011-08-26 14:08:55 WildSoil has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 690 2011-08-26 14:08:55 GMP has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 691 2011-08-26 14:08:55 phantomcircuit has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 692 2011-08-26 14:08:55 bobke has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
 693 2011-08-26 14:08:55 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 694 2011-08-26 14:08:55 terracotta has quit (Quit: lol)
 695 2011-08-26 14:08:55 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 696 2011-08-26 14:08:55 Rozz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 697 2011-08-26 14:08:55 knotwork has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 698 2011-08-26 14:08:55 cacheson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 699 2011-08-26 14:08:56 mabus has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 700 2011-08-26 14:08:56 ferrouswheel has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 701 2011-08-26 14:08:56 nullrouten has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 702 2011-08-26 14:08:57 zeta-51b has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 703 2011-08-26 14:08:59 Rozz has joined
 704 2011-08-26 14:09:08 underscor has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 705 2011-08-26 14:09:14 Acip has joined
 706 2011-08-26 14:09:23 underscor has joined
 707 2011-08-26 14:09:32 nexes has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 708 2011-08-26 14:09:32 Rennex has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 709 2011-08-26 14:10:00 twobitcoins__ has joined
 710 2011-08-26 14:10:03 gjs278 has joined
 711 2011-08-26 14:10:29 knotwork has joined
 712 2011-08-26 14:10:30 TheAncientGoat has joined
 713 2011-08-26 14:10:31 cacheson has joined
 714 2011-08-26 14:10:33 epscy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 715 2011-08-26 14:10:33 tomat has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 716 2011-08-26 14:10:33 parus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 717 2011-08-26 14:10:34 HardDisk_WP has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 718 2011-08-26 14:10:34 asherkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 719 2011-08-26 14:10:34 phedny_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 720 2011-08-26 14:10:34 nexes has joined
 721 2011-08-26 14:10:36 epscylonb has joined
 722 2011-08-26 14:10:40 asherkin_ has joined
 723 2011-08-26 14:10:44 twobitcoins_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 724 2011-08-26 14:10:48 parus has joined
 725 2011-08-26 14:10:53 asherkin_ is now known as asherkin
 726 2011-08-26 14:11:03 Crshman has joined
 727 2011-08-26 14:11:05 baz_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 728 2011-08-26 14:11:56 `2Fast2BCn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 729 2011-08-26 14:12:07 tomat has joined
 730 2011-08-26 14:14:20 Dyaheon has left ()
 731 2011-08-26 14:14:57 phantomcircuit_ has joined
 732 2011-08-26 14:15:55 `2Fast2BCn has joined
 733 2011-08-26 14:15:59 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 734 2011-08-26 14:16:24 TheAncientGoat has joined
 735 2011-08-26 14:17:56 Wack0 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 736 2011-08-26 14:18:18 nullrouten has joined
 737 2011-08-26 14:18:20 Wack0 has joined
 738 2011-08-26 14:19:17 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 739 2011-08-26 14:19:39 Rennex has joined
 740 2011-08-26 14:20:00 normanrichards has joined
 741 2011-08-26 14:20:40 phedny has joined
 742 2011-08-26 14:20:50 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 743 2011-08-26 14:20:50 gp5st has joined
 744 2011-08-26 14:21:13 bobke_ is now known as bobke
 745 2011-08-26 14:26:14 DontMindMe has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
 746 2011-08-26 14:29:07 BGL has joined
 747 2011-08-26 14:30:39 enki_ is now known as enki
 748 2011-08-26 14:30:43 enki has quit (Changing host)
 749 2011-08-26 14:30:43 enki has joined
 750 2011-08-26 14:30:45 peck has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 751 2011-08-26 14:31:56 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 752 2011-08-26 14:33:10 nr9 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 753 2011-08-26 14:35:04 lianj_ has joined
 754 2011-08-26 14:35:24 peck has joined
 755 2011-08-26 14:39:01 Guest39969 has joined
 756 2011-08-26 14:40:13 HarryS_ has joined
 757 2011-08-26 14:40:18 Habbie_ has joined
 758 2011-08-26 14:41:31 jandd_ has joined
 759 2011-08-26 14:43:41 npouillard has joined
 760 2011-08-26 14:44:44 wereHamster has joined
 761 2011-08-26 14:44:44 kinlo has joined
 762 2011-08-26 14:44:44 BlueMattBot has joined
 763 2011-08-26 14:46:57 mologie has joined
 764 2011-08-26 14:46:57 mac-mini has joined
 765 2011-08-26 14:51:04 fahadsadah has joined
 766 2011-08-26 14:52:50 <SomeoneWeird> Anyone around that can run me through on how to compile the client on win?
 767 2011-08-26 14:53:26 Habbie_ is now known as Habbie
 768 2011-08-26 14:56:03 superman2016 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 769 2011-08-26 14:56:51 JRWR has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 770 2011-08-26 14:58:07 superman2016 has joined
 771 2011-08-26 15:00:02 <abragin> SomeoneWeird - with GUI, or commandline version?
 772 2011-08-26 15:00:12 <SomeoneWeird> gui
 773 2011-08-26 15:00:27 <abragin> a bit harder due to QT (iirc)
 774 2011-08-26 15:00:31 <abragin> I compiled only cui
 775 2011-08-26 15:00:49 Burgundy has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
 776 2011-08-26 15:00:49 <abragin> and it was rather straightforward, you just need to get/build all dependances
 777 2011-08-26 15:00:50 <SomeoneWeird> well, daemon would suffice for now but in the longrun i'd like gui compiled aswell
 778 2011-08-26 15:01:01 <SomeoneWeird> heh
 779 2011-08-26 15:01:11 <SomeoneWeird> did you follow a tut or something?
 780 2011-08-26 15:01:35 <abragin> nope, alas there were no tutorial, so just try-and-error
 781 2011-08-26 15:01:36 nemesis51 is now known as away!~nemesis@178-25-127-144-dynip.superkabel.de|nemesis51
 782 2011-08-26 15:01:43 <SomeoneWeird> >.<
 783 2011-08-26 15:01:45 <SomeoneWeird> ok
 784 2011-08-26 15:02:09 Clipse has joined
 785 2011-08-26 15:02:29 copumpkin has joined
 786 2011-08-26 15:02:32 <abragin> well, I created a vc project for that
 787 2011-08-26 15:02:41 <abragin> visual studio I mean
 788 2011-08-26 15:03:53 <abragin> additional lib dirs: D:\BitCoin\Libs\boost_1_43_0\bin.v2\libs\filesystem\build\msvc-10.0\debug\link-static\threading-multi;D:\BitCoin\Libs\boost_1_43_0\bin.v2\libs\system\build\msvc-10.0\debug\link-static\threading-multi;D:\BitCoin\Libs\boost_1_43_0\bin.v2\libs\thread\build\msvc-10.0\debug\link-static\threading-multi\;D:\BitCoin\Libs\boost_1_43_0\bin.v2\libs\date_time\build\msvc-10.0\deb
 789 2011-08-26 15:03:53 <abragin> ug\link-static\threading-multi;D:\BitCoin\Libs\boost_1_43_0\bin.v2\libs\program_options\build\msvc-10.0\debug\link-static\threading-multi;D:\BitCoin\Libs\boost_1_43_0\bin.v2\libs\regex\build\msvc-10.0\debug\link-static\threading-multi;D:\BitCoin\Libs\openssl-1.0.0d\out32;D:\BitCoin\Libs\db-4.7.25\build_windows\Debug;
 790 2011-08-26 15:04:20 <abragin> you may see what libs are used from that
 791 2011-08-26 15:05:52 <SomeoneWeird> hrm ok thanks
 792 2011-08-26 15:09:47 fnord0 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 793 2011-08-26 15:10:44 devon_hillard has joined
 794 2011-08-26 15:10:45 devon_hillard has quit (Changing host)
 795 2011-08-26 15:10:45 devon_hillard has joined
 796 2011-08-26 15:11:55 d1g1t4l has joined
 797 2011-08-26 15:12:45 fnord0 has joined
 798 2011-08-26 15:14:30 mnass_ is now known as mnass
 799 2011-08-26 15:14:48 BlueMatt has joined
 800 2011-08-26 15:15:26 SomeoneWeird is now known as SomeoneWeirdAFK
 801 2011-08-26 15:15:37 rlifchitz has joined
 802 2011-08-26 15:15:37 rlifchitz has quit (Changing host)
 803 2011-08-26 15:15:37 rlifchitz has joined
 804 2011-08-26 15:22:47 cloudier has joined
 805 2011-08-26 15:22:48 magn3ts has joined
 806 2011-08-26 15:24:20 Lopuz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 807 2011-08-26 15:25:45 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 808 2011-08-26 15:26:32 aldiyen_ has joined
 809 2011-08-26 15:28:34 Matth1a3 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 810 2011-08-26 15:29:08 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 811 2011-08-26 15:31:38 Cherothald has joined
 812 2011-08-26 15:37:46 m00p has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 813 2011-08-26 15:38:10 coderrr has quit (Excess Flood)
 814 2011-08-26 15:38:26 hahuang65 has joined
 815 2011-08-26 15:38:29 coderrr has joined
 816 2011-08-26 15:39:11 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 817 2011-08-26 15:41:04 BTCTrader has quit (Quit: BTCTrader)
 818 2011-08-26 15:41:06 erus` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 819 2011-08-26 15:41:48 TheAncientGoat has joined
 820 2011-08-26 15:41:51 TheAncientGoat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 821 2011-08-26 15:45:15 <forrestv> cjdelisle, no, the share won't be rejected. included transactions aren't checked against anything
 822 2011-08-26 15:45:31 <cjdelisle> thanks
 823 2011-08-26 15:48:34 Incitatus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 824 2011-08-26 15:54:03 BTC_away is now known as BTCTrader
 825 2011-08-26 15:54:34 nhodges has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 826 2011-08-26 15:54:56 wolfspraul has joined
 827 2011-08-26 15:56:51 paul0 has joined
 828 2011-08-26 15:57:21 BlueMattBot has quit ()
 829 2011-08-26 15:58:10 BlueMattBot has joined
 830 2011-08-26 16:02:14 skraps has joined
 831 2011-08-26 16:02:20 <skraps> help get SSL options for everyone for free on pastebin like this page on face book http://pastebin.com/f4e0diQP
 832 2011-08-26 16:04:21 black888 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 833 2011-08-26 16:04:26 skraps has quit (Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.)))
 834 2011-08-26 16:05:03 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 835 2011-08-26 16:05:34 <UukGoblin> does someone keep historical trade data of all exchanges (like the real-time one provided by bitcoincharts)?
 836 2011-08-26 16:06:34 <tcatm> bitcoincharts does
 837 2011-08-26 16:07:28 zamgo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 838 2011-08-26 16:07:29 mabus_ is now known as mabus
 839 2011-08-26 16:10:42 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 840 2011-08-26 16:13:06 slush has joined
 841 2011-08-26 16:13:10 Zarutian has joined
 842 2011-08-26 16:13:50 nhodges has joined
 843 2011-08-26 16:16:27 Titeuf_87 has joined
 844 2011-08-26 16:17:32 Burgundy has joined
 845 2011-08-26 16:18:22 lookdang has joined
 846 2011-08-26 16:18:37 bk128 has joined
 847 2011-08-26 16:19:08 brunner has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 848 2011-08-26 16:20:21 brunner has joined
 849 2011-08-26 16:23:20 copumpkin has joined
 850 2011-08-26 16:23:57 BlueMatt has joined
 851 2011-08-26 16:28:03 Baksch has joined
 852 2011-08-26 16:31:39 semb has joined
 853 2011-08-26 16:34:44 erus` has joined
 854 2011-08-26 16:35:22 sytse_ is now known as sytse
 855 2011-08-26 16:43:44 hugolp has joined
 856 2011-08-26 16:46:27 black888 has joined
 857 2011-08-26 16:48:03 cokein has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 858 2011-08-26 16:48:56 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: I cna ytpe 300 wrods pre mniuet!!!)
 859 2011-08-26 16:52:58 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
 860 2011-08-26 16:53:51 Workbench has joined
 861 2011-08-26 16:58:08 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 862 2011-08-26 17:01:51 darkmethod has joined
 863 2011-08-26 17:01:56 piotrpopieluch has joined
 864 2011-08-26 17:04:10 wolfspraul has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 865 2011-08-26 17:04:24 Incitatus has joined
 866 2011-08-26 17:06:24 wolfspraul has joined
 867 2011-08-26 17:06:25 piotrpopieluch has left ()
 868 2011-08-26 17:09:02 d1g1t4l has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 869 2011-08-26 17:11:07 asher^ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 870 2011-08-26 17:14:29 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 871 2011-08-26 17:14:43 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
 872 2011-08-26 17:17:42 pickett has joined
 873 2011-08-26 17:17:42 eianpsego has quit ()
 874 2011-08-26 17:17:50 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 875 2011-08-26 17:18:27 mosimo has joined
 876 2011-08-26 17:18:50 pickett has joined
 877 2011-08-26 17:20:26 SomeoneWeirdAFK has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 878 2011-08-26 17:20:33 LightRider has quit ()
 879 2011-08-26 17:26:48 lookdang has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 880 2011-08-26 17:28:59 larsivi has joined
 881 2011-08-26 17:29:00 larsivi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 882 2011-08-26 17:30:59 Baksch has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 883 2011-08-26 17:31:32 wardearia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 884 2011-08-26 17:32:32 larsivi has joined
 885 2011-08-26 17:34:43 sytse has quit (Read error: No route to host)
 886 2011-08-26 17:34:51 sytse has joined
 887 2011-08-26 17:35:20 Lopuz has joined
 888 2011-08-26 17:39:38 hugolp has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
 889 2011-08-26 17:41:52 JRWR has joined
 890 2011-08-26 17:42:00 JRWR has quit (Changing host)
 891 2011-08-26 17:42:00 JRWR has joined
 892 2011-08-26 17:42:26 kisom_dev has joined
 893 2011-08-26 17:42:52 kisom_dev is now known as Guest92703
 894 2011-08-26 17:43:03 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 895 2011-08-26 17:43:10 Guest92703 is now known as kisom__
 896 2011-08-26 17:45:54 fiercecasgyr has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 897 2011-08-26 17:47:54 wardearia has joined
 898 2011-08-26 17:53:23 ArdaXi has joined
 899 2011-08-26 17:53:23 ArdaXi has quit (Changing host)
 900 2011-08-26 17:53:23 ArdaXi has joined
 901 2011-08-26 17:56:32 entrapmrag has joined
 902 2011-08-26 17:56:57 TheAncientGoat has joined
 903 2011-08-26 18:00:40 cokein has joined
 904 2011-08-26 18:04:23 bk128 has joined
 905 2011-08-26 18:04:30 nhodges has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 906 2011-08-26 18:10:53 zeropointo has joined
 907 2011-08-26 18:11:20 joeschmoe has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 908 2011-08-26 18:11:36 joeschmoe has joined
 909 2011-08-26 18:11:45 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 910 2011-08-26 18:12:31 molecular has joined
 911 2011-08-26 18:26:02 Clipse has joined
 912 2011-08-26 18:26:06 Obsi has joined
 913 2011-08-26 18:27:07 abragin has quit ()
 914 2011-08-26 18:29:58 Lethe_ has joined
 915 2011-08-26 18:31:38 zamgo has joined
 916 2011-08-26 18:31:56 ThomasV has joined
 917 2011-08-26 18:31:59 ThomasV has quit (Changing host)
 918 2011-08-26 18:31:59 ThomasV has joined
 919 2011-08-26 18:33:03 Lethe has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
 920 2011-08-26 18:33:24 ByronJohnson has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 921 2011-08-26 18:33:35 ArdaXi has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
 922 2011-08-26 18:35:56 Lethe_ is now known as Lethe
 923 2011-08-26 18:38:06 BTCTrader has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 924 2011-08-26 18:38:19 p0s has joined
 925 2011-08-26 18:38:34 BTCTrader has joined
 926 2011-08-26 18:38:43 BTCTrader has quit (Changing host)
 927 2011-08-26 18:38:43 BTCTrader has joined
 928 2011-08-26 18:39:42 Lethe_ has joined
 929 2011-08-26 18:39:54 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 930 2011-08-26 18:41:40 TheAncientGoat has joined
 931 2011-08-26 18:41:50 Lethe has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 932 2011-08-26 18:44:59 Obsi has quit (Quit: *PooF*)
 933 2011-08-26 18:47:42 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 934 2011-08-26 18:47:53 Obsi has joined
 935 2011-08-26 18:47:54 Obsi has quit (Changing host)
 936 2011-08-26 18:47:54 Obsi has joined
 937 2011-08-26 18:48:21 entrapmrag has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 938 2011-08-26 18:51:20 entrapmrag has joined
 939 2011-08-26 18:52:43 random_cat has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 940 2011-08-26 18:54:58 <UukGoblin> heh, "create your own altchain" option in bitcoin would be nice
 941 2011-08-26 18:55:34 <UukGoblin> you just enter some values in a special config file, like the coin-per-block, avg-time-to-find-block, etc - and bam! you've got your own altchain
 942 2011-08-26 18:55:57 <UukGoblin> it'd perhaps show people how silly ixcoin and the like are
 943 2011-08-26 18:57:04 kish is now known as BUY
 944 2011-08-26 18:57:11 Raccoon is now known as SELL
 945 2011-08-26 18:57:31 urs has joined
 946 2011-08-26 18:57:41 ThomasV is now known as SELLMORE
 947 2011-08-26 18:58:43 SELLMORE is now known as ThomasV
 948 2011-08-26 18:58:47 BUY is now known as kish
 949 2011-08-26 18:59:03 SELL is now known as SELL_SELL_SELL
 950 2011-08-26 18:59:32 SELL_SELL_SELL is now known as Raccoon
 951 2011-08-26 19:02:00 sshc has joined
 952 2011-08-26 19:04:39 <UukGoblin> 195650 <+amphipod> Aug26 18:57:48 b7           1.6200 @     8.60       USD
 953 2011-08-26 19:04:58 <UukGoblin> heh, looks like b7's clock (or something) is about a minute in the future
 954 2011-08-26 19:05:06 Diablo-D3 has joined
 955 2011-08-26 19:05:12 <UukGoblin> more
 956 2011-08-26 19:05:48 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
 957 2011-08-26 19:08:09 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 958 2011-08-26 19:10:56 btcserve has joined
 959 2011-08-26 19:11:17 iocor has joined
 960 2011-08-26 19:11:26 <iocor> is it the case that you can reverse a wallet public key from an address?
 961 2011-08-26 19:11:59 <tcatm> iocor: not without breaking the hashing function
 962 2011-08-26 19:12:12 <btcserve> what is the best service (easy to configure and secure) to host bitcoind along with a python json-rpc app?
 963 2011-08-26 19:12:35 <tcatm> btcserve: IIRC there is none yet. maybe you should start one?
 964 2011-08-26 19:12:54 <btcserve> drat
 965 2011-08-26 19:13:27 <zamgo> also add to your list:   'best secure service'
 966 2011-08-26 19:13:33 <zamgo> also, none yet
 967 2011-08-26 19:13:37 <btcserve> is there a hardened vm image i could use with a cloud service?
 968 2011-08-26 19:14:58 <tcatm> setting up that vm is easy. coming up with a good backup plan is not that easy
 969 2011-08-26 19:16:01 <zamgo> and that's why poland has 1 less exchange
 970 2011-08-26 19:17:38 zamgo has quit (Disconnected by services)
 971 2011-08-26 19:17:51 <btcserve> backup plan in case it gets hacked?
 972 2011-08-26 19:18:10 zamgo has joined
 973 2011-08-26 19:18:46 semb has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 974 2011-08-26 19:19:08 cokein has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 975 2011-08-26 19:23:28 entrapmrag has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 976 2011-08-26 19:24:52 entrapmrag has joined
 977 2011-08-26 19:27:43 erus` has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 978 2011-08-26 19:35:41 dvide_ has joined
 979 2011-08-26 19:36:45 dvide has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 980 2011-08-26 19:37:25 Cokein has joined
 981 2011-08-26 19:42:52 <imsaguy> ;;seen BlueMattBot
 982 2011-08-26 19:42:53 <gribble> BlueMattBot was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 day, 19 hours, 15 minutes, and 10 seconds ago: <BlueMattBot> phantomcircuit: yummy! I just love penis!
 983 2011-08-26 19:44:54 <imsaguy> heh
 984 2011-08-26 19:44:56 btcserve has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 985 2011-08-26 19:45:06 <imsaguy> I don't even remember what I had told gribble to tell BlueMatt
 986 2011-08-26 19:45:16 zeropointo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 987 2011-08-26 19:49:02 gut4 has joined
 988 2011-08-26 19:49:30 fathead has joined
 989 2011-08-26 19:52:03 shadders has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 990 2011-08-26 19:53:49 piotrp has joined
 991 2011-08-26 20:04:07 gut4 has quit (Quit: gut4)
 992 2011-08-26 20:07:19 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-lib: Stefan Thomas master * r1df76fd / (4 files in 2 dirs): Add tests. - http://git.io/W6Ce9g
 993 2011-08-26 20:07:21 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-lib: Stefan Thomas master * r0f42456 / src/ecdsa.js :
 994 2011-08-26 20:07:21 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-lib: Added more ECDSA function and some fixes.
 995 2011-08-26 20:07:21 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-lib: decodeFrom is no longer destructive with it's inputs.
 996 2011-08-26 20:07:21 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-lib: Added isOnCurve().
 997 2011-08-26 20:07:22 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-lib: Added validate().
 998 2011-08-26 20:07:22 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-lib: Fixed formatting.
 999 2011-08-26 20:07:22 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-lib: Factored out new functions serializeSig and parseSig. - http://git.io/Z-DyEg
1000 2011-08-26 20:15:55 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1001 2011-08-26 20:21:55 markus_wanner has quit (Quit: leaving)
1002 2011-08-26 20:29:28 vsrinivas has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1003 2011-08-26 20:38:55 Matth1a3 has joined
1004 2011-08-26 20:42:00 iocor has joined
1005 2011-08-26 20:43:57 <lfm> ;bc,mtgox
1006 2011-08-26 20:47:59 ByronJohnson has joined
1007 2011-08-26 20:48:50 gronager has joined
1008 2011-08-26 20:48:58 <imsaguy> lfm, two ;;
1009 2011-08-26 20:51:57 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1010 2011-08-26 20:52:19 ByronJohnson has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1011 2011-08-26 20:56:16 datagutt has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1012 2011-08-26 20:58:26 zamgo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1013 2011-08-26 21:00:14 ThomasV has joined
1014 2011-08-26 21:00:17 bk128 has joined
1015 2011-08-26 21:02:22 JRWR has quit ()
1016 2011-08-26 21:04:42 brunner has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1017 2011-08-26 21:05:05 brunner has joined
1018 2011-08-26 21:11:14 abragin has joined
1019 2011-08-26 21:11:14 abragin has quit (Changing host)
1020 2011-08-26 21:11:14 abragin has joined
1021 2011-08-26 21:17:37 zomtec has joined
1022 2011-08-26 21:22:41 darkmethod has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1023 2011-08-26 21:23:29 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1024 2011-08-26 21:29:54 * Eliel wonders if this would be useful for bitcoin in some way http://www1.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/tresor
1025 2011-08-26 21:30:13 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1026 2011-08-26 21:30:58 <Eliel> ... oh wait, it's a kernel patch... :P
1027 2011-08-26 21:31:11 <Eliel> well, could be used if it ends up in the mainstream kernel :)
1028 2011-08-26 21:31:16 <nanotube> Eliel: once you're worrying about people reading your data off ram... you're better off just going with multi-factor auth.
1029 2011-08-26 21:32:16 erus` has joined
1030 2011-08-26 21:33:41 ThomasV has joined
1031 2011-08-26 21:34:07 pickett has joined
1032 2011-08-26 21:39:29 <Eliel> I was wondering, for wallet backups, if it might be useful format to contain only keys (and perhaps 99% random unused keys mixed in with the real ones in random order) encrypted with a passphrase.
1033 2011-08-26 21:39:41 <Eliel> keys as in private keys
1034 2011-08-26 21:40:09 <Eliel> the idea is to be very much pain in the ass, if not impossible to brute force.
1035 2011-08-26 21:41:03 <Eliel> if there's no predictable data in the file, the only way to check if a key is valid is to see if the it's public address has any bitcoins.
1036 2011-08-26 21:43:22 <imsaguy> Eliel, so then how does the client know which are the keys to use?
1037 2011-08-26 21:43:45 <imsaguy> whatever method you use to indicate to the client is the same way someone could extract them
1038 2011-08-26 21:43:59 <Eliel> imsaguy: it's a backup, you're suppose to know the passphrase.
1039 2011-08-26 21:44:18 <Eliel> so the client then checks all of them.
1040 2011-08-26 21:44:28 <Eliel> for the given passphrase.
1041 2011-08-26 21:45:01 <makomk> Eliel: it'd end in people thinking the backup was bad and they'd lost all their bitcoins because they typo'd the passphrase...
1042 2011-08-26 21:45:46 <Eliel> makomk: only if they're not warned of how easy that's to do. (ie, if the UI design is bad)
1043 2011-08-26 21:45:58 <ThomasV> nanotube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bc7Z6pCvRO0
1044 2011-08-26 21:46:19 <makomk> I'm not sure how many users would pay attention to such a warning.
1045 2011-08-26 21:46:42 ByronJohnson has joined
1046 2011-08-26 21:46:43 <Eliel> makomk: even when it's their money at stake? seriously?
1047 2011-08-26 21:46:52 <makomk> Seriously.
1048 2011-08-26 21:46:59 <mtrlt> Eliel: yes.
1049 2011-08-26 21:47:06 <mtrlt> they don't understand that they actually do own their money
1050 2011-08-26 21:47:12 <mtrlt> and there's no-one to help if they screw up
1051 2011-08-26 21:47:47 b4epoche_ has joined
1052 2011-08-26 21:48:21 <Eliel> well, the recovery process could have a check at the end that notes the possibility in the same message that says 0BTC found.
1053 2011-08-26 21:48:29 <makomk> Mostly because it's unexpected behaviour; most stuff tells users when they've entered their password wrong.
1054 2011-08-26 21:48:36 <makomk> That could work... maybe.
1055 2011-08-26 21:50:00 <Eliel> well, with bitcoins, people are going to have to wise up to there actually not being others to help if they do screw up :P
1056 2011-08-26 21:50:41 <mtrlt> it'll take time
1057 2011-08-26 21:50:59 ahbritto has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1058 2011-08-26 21:51:13 marf_away has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1059 2011-08-26 21:51:25 <b4epoche_> OT but interesting:  http://www.businessweek.com/technology/how-software-is-harming-science-engineering-08252011.html
1060 2011-08-26 21:52:53 m00p has joined
1061 2011-08-26 21:53:29 Bwild has quit (Quit: leaving)
1062 2011-08-26 21:53:48 <Eliel> b4epoche_: I'm laughing out loud here reading that article :D
1063 2011-08-26 21:54:06 * b4epoche_ thinks its basically true
1064 2011-08-26 21:55:10 <Eliel> well, he's got some points there but I think he misunderstands the point he was criticizing.
1065 2011-08-26 21:55:45 <Eliel> software is going to be a part of virtually any advancement on any other field.
1066 2011-08-26 21:55:48 <b4epoche_> which you think is what?
1067 2011-08-26 21:55:58 marf_away has joined
1068 2011-08-26 21:56:12 <nanotube> ThomasV: nice :)
1069 2011-08-26 21:56:22 <b4epoche_> like, like an advance in welding
1070 2011-08-26 21:56:53 <Eliel> b4epoche_: very likely to involve software somehow.
1071 2011-08-26 21:57:05 <Eliel> if not in actual practical use, in the design.
1072 2011-08-26 21:57:14 <Eliel> and testing
1073 2011-08-26 21:57:14 <b4epoche_> and any advance is very likely to involve welding ;-)
1074 2011-08-26 21:58:12 m00p has quit (Read error: No route to host)
1075 2011-08-26 21:58:24 <nanotube> welding is taking over the world!
1076 2011-08-26 21:58:32 <Eliel> basically, the writer of this article you linked to misunderstands the "poised to take over broad swathes of the economy"
1077 2011-08-26 21:58:37 <b4epoche_> it's a dirty job that no one wants
1078 2011-08-26 21:58:44 <ThomasV> nanotube: it has display + pin number + rfid
1079 2011-08-26 21:58:45 m00p has joined
1080 2011-08-26 21:59:17 <nanotube> neat.
1081 2011-08-26 21:59:37 <ThomasV> nanotube: http://www.smartdisplayer.com/page_01_a.html#05
1082 2011-08-26 22:00:02 <ThomasV> I love it
1083 2011-08-26 22:00:11 <Eliel> b4epoche_: it doesn't mean software will be in the flashlights. It just means there will be software in everything. Hence, very profitable to be in software.
1084 2011-08-26 22:00:25 <nanotube> ThomasV: cool, so are you going to make these for bitcoin? :)
1085 2011-08-26 22:00:43 <ThomasV> nanotube: maybe; I need to check if the chip can do ecdsa
1086 2011-08-26 22:00:46 piotrp has quit (Quit: piotrp)
1087 2011-08-26 22:00:48 phantomcircuit_ is now known as phantomcircuit
1088 2011-08-26 22:00:58 <nanotube> mm
1089 2011-08-26 22:01:05 <b4epoche_> but I think it's going to be very not-profitable to be in software, unless you live in India or China
1090 2011-08-26 22:01:33 <sytse> wallet.cpp line 803:     if (nTotalLower == nTargetValue || nTotalLower == nTargetValue + CENT)
1091 2011-08-26 22:01:55 <sytse> shouldn't that be, (nTotalLower >= nTargetValue || nTotalLower <= nTargetValue + CENT)?
1092 2011-08-26 22:02:39 <Eliel> b4epoche_: I don't think you realize the magnitude of difference between the average programmer and even just good programmers.
1093 2011-08-26 22:02:41 <ThomasV> nanotube: the problem with rfid is that merchants do not have readers ; they typically have smart card readers for cards with chip
1094 2011-08-26 22:03:16 <ThomasV> (where you insert the card)
1095 2011-08-26 22:03:17 <b4epoche_> eliel:  and there aren't good programmers amoung the 1 billion Indians?
1096 2011-08-26 22:03:18 <nanotube> the other problem with rfid is that it leaks data, doesn't it? (I.e., anyone can ninja-read your rfid?)
1097 2011-08-26 22:03:26 <Eliel> pushing everything to india/china means you get average programmers cheap
1098 2011-08-26 22:03:40 <Eliel> because there's just too much demand for programmers from there.
1099 2011-08-26 22:03:41 <ThomasV> nanotube: no, not if you confirm with pin on your card
1100 2011-08-26 22:03:52 <Eliel> there's the occasional good one of course.
1101 2011-08-26 22:03:55 <Eliel> but not enough
1102 2011-08-26 22:04:21 <ThomasV> these cards have a keypad and a display
1103 2011-08-26 22:04:29 <nanotube> mmm
1104 2011-08-26 22:04:31 <b4epoche_> but that's the problem…  most innovations just need average programmers
1105 2011-08-26 22:05:07 <b4epoche_> the software in my refrigerator need not be written by a good programmer
1106 2011-08-26 22:05:22 <Eliel> b4epoche_: it's not what you can build with average programmers vs good programmers. You can usually get the job done even with average programmers too.
1107 2011-08-26 22:05:38 <Eliel> good programmers get the same job done faster and with less bugs
1108 2011-08-26 22:05:44 * b4epoche_ thinks there will be a day, in the not too distant future, in which programming is viewed as a trade (like welding)
1109 2011-08-26 22:06:04 <sytse> b4epoche_: that day is 1970
1110 2011-08-26 22:06:08 <mtrlt> um what is it viewed as currently?
1111 2011-08-26 22:06:14 <ThomasV> I do not know how much they cost, though
1112 2011-08-26 22:06:26 <sytse> mtrlt: as something you pick some losers from the street for
1113 2011-08-26 22:06:27 m00p has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1114 2011-08-26 22:06:31 <sytse> mtrlt: as long as they do what you tell them to
1115 2011-08-26 22:06:49 <mtrlt> i've not seen that attitude in practice :P
1116 2011-08-26 22:06:52 <sytse> because IT projects fail anyway, everybody knows that, that's nobody's fault right?
1117 2011-08-26 22:06:59 <b4epoche_> i.e. a trade instead of a profession
1118 2011-08-26 22:07:01 <mtrlt> but it might very well exist
1119 2011-08-26 22:07:05 <Eliel> b4epoche_: basically, it'll be cheaper to pay a few good programmers the money a dozen average ones would need and get a better result, faster.
1120 2011-08-26 22:07:32 <sytse> Eliel: yes, but tell that to a manager
1121 2011-08-26 22:07:50 <Eliel> sytse: managers will learn, eventually.
1122 2011-08-26 22:08:09 * b4epoche_ will be a member of Coders Local 354
1123 2011-08-26 22:08:38 * b4epoche_ is guess age(sytse) >> age(Eliel)
1124 2011-08-26 22:09:26 m00p has joined
1125 2011-08-26 22:10:44 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1126 2011-08-26 22:10:49 <Eliel> anyway, the number of managers that realize that is not too high but they exist.
1127 2011-08-26 22:11:28 ahbritto has joined
1128 2011-08-26 22:11:36 gp5st has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1129 2011-08-26 22:11:40 Bwild has joined
1130 2011-08-26 22:12:29 <b4epoche_> but more on-topic…  I think bitcoin is (could be) a counter example of an innovation build entirely from software
1131 2011-08-26 22:14:58 <sytse> b4epoche_: nah, I'm still young and relatively uninitiated in the world of business
1132 2011-08-26 22:15:14 * sytse has no more than 2 years of work experience now
1133 2011-08-26 22:15:31 <sytse> 26 yo
1134 2011-08-26 22:16:29 fnord0 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1135 2011-08-26 22:20:50 ocharles has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1136 2011-08-26 22:20:59 Kobier_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1137 2011-08-26 22:20:59 chinaskibit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1138 2011-08-26 22:21:11 * sytse wonders how many nice, clean, untraceable 50BTC reward transactions he should keep for sentimental reasons
1139 2011-08-26 22:21:30 m00p has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1140 2011-08-26 22:21:33 <imsaguy> sytse, as many as you can
1141 2011-08-26 22:21:38 <imsaguy> they'll be worth something someday
1142 2011-08-26 22:21:57 <sytse> maybe keep it a clean number, like 100
1143 2011-08-26 22:22:34 <sytse> imsaguy: do you really think so? :)
1144 2011-08-26 22:23:32 <imsaguy> yeah
1145 2011-08-26 22:23:40 <imsaguy> kinda like an unused quarter
1146 2011-08-26 22:23:53 denisx has joined
1147 2011-08-26 22:24:03 <sytse> I'd only be able to sell them for more than the normal price if I kept them off my tax returns though I suppose, which would entail never selling them anywhere but on the black market
1148 2011-08-26 22:24:07 <sytse> which is risky
1149 2011-08-26 22:24:24 fpgaminer has joined
1150 2011-08-26 22:24:57 marf_away has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1151 2011-08-26 22:25:03 <BitManiac> just file the taxes man
1152 2011-08-26 22:25:07 <BitManiac> better in the long run
1153 2011-08-26 22:25:08 <sytse> exactly
1154 2011-08-26 22:25:12 <sytse> I will
1155 2011-08-26 22:25:38 <sytse> imsaguy: or do you think some dumb people will actually be willing to pay more for a clean 50 BTC because they think it makes them look cool?
1156 2011-08-26 22:25:49 <BitManiac> dumb people will pay for anything
1157 2011-08-26 22:25:53 <sytse> heh
1158 2011-08-26 22:25:55 <sytse> that's true
1159 2011-08-26 22:25:58 <sytse> even bitcoins
1160 2011-08-26 22:26:00 <sytse> *ahem*
1161 2011-08-26 22:26:00 <sytse> wait
1162 2011-08-26 22:26:03 <sytse> I didn't say that
1163 2011-08-26 22:26:07 <BitManiac> I saw someone on bitcointalk the other day
1164 2011-08-26 22:26:09 <sytse> ;-)
1165 2011-08-26 22:26:25 <BitManiac> offering 1.15BTC for any bitcoins that were mined on his son's birthday
1166 2011-08-26 22:26:30 <sytse> rofl
1167 2011-08-26 22:26:37 <BitManiac> because he wants to keep them for him when he grows up
1168 2011-08-26 22:26:44 <BitManiac> most retarded shit I ever heard
1169 2011-08-26 22:27:00 <BitManiac> "here you go son, a 256 bit hash key"
1170 2011-08-26 22:27:04 <BitManiac> "happy birthday!!!"
1171 2011-08-26 22:27:19 <sytse> a 256 bit hash key that might be worth $100000 by then btw
1172 2011-08-26 22:27:24 <BitManiac> yeah
1173 2011-08-26 22:27:26 <BitManiac> or 0.01c
1174 2011-08-26 22:27:33 <sytse> sure
1175 2011-08-26 22:27:50 <BitManiac> something like 75% of all bitcoins are hoarded
1176 2011-08-26 22:28:15 <BitManiac> for them to escalate in value that much they need to start flowing around a little more
1177 2011-08-26 22:28:19 <BitManiac> or a LOT more
1178 2011-08-26 22:28:38 <sytse> it would need to become a common thing
1179 2011-08-26 22:28:40 <sytse> not as common as gold
1180 2011-08-26 22:28:42 <sytse> but still common
1181 2011-08-26 22:29:44 <lfm> BitManiac: are you haveing trouble buying as many bitcoin as you would like to buy?
1182 2011-08-26 22:30:17 <BitManiac> no
1183 2011-08-26 22:30:20 <imsaguy> sytse, the thing about selling 'clean' btc is
1184 2011-08-26 22:30:20 <BitManiac> Britcoin is back up :)
1185 2011-08-26 22:30:26 <imsaguy> once you transfer it, its not clean anymore
1186 2011-08-26 22:30:31 <sytse> imsaguy: yep
1187 2011-08-26 22:30:31 <imsaguy> there's a transaction :p
1188 2011-08-26 22:30:33 <sytse> I know
1189 2011-08-26 22:30:43 <imsaguy> so buying a clean bitcoin to be cool wouldn't hold
1190 2011-08-26 22:30:55 <imsaguy> but someone might
1191 2011-08-26 22:31:47 <pigeons> you can trade the private key, but how do you know the seller didn't keep a copy?
1192 2011-08-26 22:32:21 <log0s> you can have a miner put your bitcoin address in the coingen tx instead of their own
1193 2011-08-26 22:32:44 <pigeons> i think the more transactions the coin has been involved would be "cooler" than none
1194 2011-08-26 22:32:47 <log0s> i think luke-jr has done that for people before, and charged a premium
1195 2011-08-26 22:33:21 <Eliel> yes, and any fees paid on transactions become "clean" BTC as well.
1196 2011-08-26 22:33:44 <imsaguy> well
1197 2011-08-26 22:33:51 <Eliel> they're basically mixed in with the generated BTC in the block.
1198 2011-08-26 22:33:52 <imsaguy> to say coin is a bit deceptive
1199 2011-08-26 22:34:04 <imsaguy> because they are split and merged all the time
1200 2011-08-26 22:34:13 <imsaguy> so its hard to say which is which after the first merge
1201 2011-08-26 22:34:16 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1202 2011-08-26 22:34:34 <Eliel> imsaguy: there are no coins, really :P only transactions :)
1203 2011-08-26 22:35:05 <Eliel> so, it's just handy to use the word "coin" for a single outpoint, be it whatever size it is.
1204 2011-08-26 22:35:40 <lfm> ya, and trnsactions dont really have datestamps, only the block headers have datestamps
1205 2011-08-26 22:36:09 <imsaguy> so to say you have a 'coin' with many transactions really doesn't mean anything
1206 2011-08-26 22:40:07 RandomMinds has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1207 2011-08-26 22:42:13 <sytse> BitManiac: hmmm, btw, the total number of bitcoins will be 21 million, so if bitcoin were to become 1/1000th as interesting as gold (ie, if the total amount of bitcoins were worth 1/1000th of the total amount of gold), 1 BTC would be worth $500
1208 2011-08-26 22:42:31 <sytse> so $100000 per BTC would be ridiculous indeed
1209 2011-08-26 22:43:58 <b4epoche_> sytse:  use the amount of USD in circulation...
1210 2011-08-26 22:44:09 <b4epoche_> the numbers get pretty ridiculous
1211 2011-08-26 22:45:15 <sytse> of course, but that's only ever going to happen if bitcoin manages to become a common payment method
1212 2011-08-26 22:48:04 <sytse> which I hold to be fairly unlikely
1213 2011-08-26 22:49:13 <nanotube> if it remains cheaper to accept than credit cards, it is imo quite likely. since easy pnp merchant solutions will inevitably develop.
1214 2011-08-26 22:49:31 <b4epoche_> but even if you take a very small percentage it's still surprisingly high
1215 2011-08-26 22:50:00 <nanotube> well, credit cards take about 3%
1216 2011-08-26 22:50:14 <b4epoche_> nanotube:  that wasn't for you
1217 2011-08-26 22:50:15 <nanotube> plus there's the expected loss of P(chargeback)*avg(chargebackamount)
1218 2011-08-26 22:50:28 <b4epoche_> yea, cc do take about 3%
1219 2011-08-26 22:50:34 <nanotube> ah :)
1220 2011-08-26 22:50:52 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1221 2011-08-26 22:51:04 <nanotube> bitcoin automagically eliminates the latter, and as long as the processor takes less than 3%, bitcoin remains financially attractive.
1222 2011-08-26 22:51:10 <b4epoche_> but I was talking about (usd in circulation)/(21M btc)*(small fraction) = (big number)
1223 2011-08-26 22:51:20 <nanotube> though i wonder if a processor is not required by law to allow buyers to chargeback....
1224 2011-08-26 22:51:40 <nanotube> (prob depends on jurisdiction...)
1225 2011-08-26 22:51:51 <nanotube> b4epoche_: aah ic what you meant by small percentage ;)
1226 2011-08-26 22:51:57 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r829e217 / (4 files in 2 dirs): CHECKMULTISIG unit tests. - http://git.io/lr3rnA
1227 2011-08-26 22:52:05 <nanotube> ooo multisig!
1228 2011-08-26 22:52:57 * b4epoche_ wonders about chargeback laws too…
1229 2011-08-26 22:53:12 <b4epoche_> seems fundamentally flawed to have them but so many laws are
1230 2011-08-26 22:53:32 <nanotube> well, it's not really flawed... ultimately, /someone/ has to bear the risk of fraud.
1231 2011-08-26 22:53:56 <phantomcircuit> b4epoche, it's supposed to be consumer protection, but that fails to take account of p2p business
1232 2011-08-26 22:54:11 <b4epoche_> nanotube:  that's not what I'm talking about
1233 2011-08-26 22:54:28 <b4epoche_> paying with a cc should be no different than paying with cash
1234 2011-08-26 22:54:49 <b4epoche_> if you want you're money back you go beat the shit out of the dude that sold you crap and take it back
1235 2011-08-26 22:54:50 <lfm> why
1236 2011-08-26 22:55:03 <nanotube> paying with a cc frequently happens over large distances
1237 2011-08-26 22:55:20 <nanotube> will you take a trip to texas to beat up a guy who failed to ship you a $30 doodad?
1238 2011-08-26 22:55:50 <phantomcircuit> worse the guy in texas could charge you $50
1239 2011-08-26 22:55:54 <nanotube> lol
1240 2011-08-26 22:55:54 <phantomcircuit> and then send it to you
1241 2011-08-26 22:55:56 <b4epoche_> well, no, but in Tx I'm sure someone close by would take $10 to do the job for me
1242 2011-08-26 22:56:12 <phantomcircuit> credit cards are just stupidly designed
1243 2011-08-26 22:56:18 <phantomcircuit> they trust everybody in the entire system
1244 2011-08-26 22:56:30 <lfm> do you put the $10 on your cc?
1245 2011-08-26 22:56:30 <nanotube> it is not unreasonable to suggest, that most individuals would find it a negative-EV proposition to expend resources to pursue a small fraud
1246 2011-08-26 22:56:39 <nanotube> while a fraudster will find in profitable to conduct a lot of them
1247 2011-08-26 22:56:55 <nanotube> so putting the risk on the business discourages seller-fraud.
1248 2011-08-26 22:57:41 <b4epoche_> when I was getting a business set up to accept credit cards (many years ago) I was informed that restaurants had high fees because a lot of patrons would chargeback the 'meal' if they didn't like it
1249 2011-08-26 22:57:45 <nanotube> it encourages buyer-fraud, on the other hand. however, since in case of seller-fraud, you end up with liquid cash, while in case of buyer-fraud you end up with $doodad... large-scale buyer fraud is generally less likely, and less profitable.
1250 2011-08-26 22:58:01 <nanotube> yea, buyer fraud.
1251 2011-08-26 22:58:04 <lfm> suposedly they also do it to "encourage" the retailers to check signatures and stuff too, never worked tho
1252 2011-08-26 22:58:41 <nanotube> anyway, not that i support chargebacks :) but just saying that there's a logic to it.
1253 2011-08-26 22:59:16 <b4epoche_> http://ag.ca.gov/consumers/general/credit_card_chargeback_rights.php
1254 2011-08-26 22:59:16 <nanotube> in the world of paying by bitcoin over the internet, i'd certainly want to at least use escrow, before i deal with a random business i haven't dealt with before.
1255 2011-08-26 22:59:38 <luke-jr> b4epoche_: you mean high prices?
1256 2011-08-26 22:59:46 <sytse> b4epoche_: so the weird thing is, bitcoin price is so ridiculously high at the moment, that the total amount of bitcoins is still worth more than 1/200000'th of the total US money stock (according to the 'M2' measure of http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/hist/h6hist7.htm )
1257 2011-08-26 22:59:48 <nanotube> i.e., how do i know if bitmunchies will send me the chips, or just take my coins? well, every bitcoiner knows about bitmunchies. but once we get to the point when we have 100s of thousands of little businesses?
1258 2011-08-26 23:00:06 <luke-jr> sytse: erm, Bitcoin prices are ridiculously *low*
1259 2011-08-26 23:00:16 <b4epoche_> luke-jr, sytse :  eh?
1260 2011-08-26 23:00:20 <luke-jr> who is starting this "high" FUD?
1261 2011-08-26 23:00:27 <sytse> me
1262 2011-08-26 23:00:37 blishchrot has joined
1263 2011-08-26 23:00:43 <b4epoche_> luke-jr:  read the discussion carefully
1264 2011-08-26 23:01:46 <nanotube> sytse: 5e-6 is a pretty small fraction of anything :P
1265 2011-08-26 23:01:51 <sytse> luke-jr: well, maybe my point is just that the average bitcoin user is much richer than the average US citizen
1266 2011-08-26 23:01:59 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1267 2011-08-26 23:02:03 <luke-jr> sytse: that should be obvious
1268 2011-08-26 23:02:10 <luke-jr> sytse: Bitcoin requires internet
1269 2011-08-26 23:02:15 <sytse> lol
1270 2011-08-26 23:02:24 <lfm> sytse: if the price is too low no one will want to mine and the whole thing will fall apart
1271 2011-08-26 23:02:26 <nanotube> and a computer, and spare cash to risk on a startup currency
1272 2011-08-26 23:02:32 <luke-jr> ^
1273 2011-08-26 23:02:33 <sytse> lfm: true
1274 2011-08-26 23:02:35 <sytse> lfm: well
1275 2011-08-26 23:02:50 <sytse> lfm: *less* people will want to mine
1276 2011-08-26 23:02:57 <sytse> because when less people mine
1277 2011-08-26 23:02:59 <sytse> they get more money
1278 2011-08-26 23:03:02 <b4epoche_> weird:  see #2 under "However, unlike billing errors, you must meet four additional conditions:" on that web site I posted
1279 2011-08-26 23:03:36 <sytse> so the amount of miners should naturally follow the value of bitcoins
1280 2011-08-26 23:03:49 <cjdelisle> I find it interesting that if every miner was using mrb's whitepixel setup (which is really efficient) then the amount of money in hardware would be around 20 million USD
1281 2011-08-26 23:03:57 <b4epoche_> sytse:  kinda…  but what else you gonna do with that mining rig?
1282 2011-08-26 23:04:10 <sytse> cjdelisle: whut? Really?
1283 2011-08-26 23:04:34 <b4epoche_> link to mrb's whitepixel setup?
1284 2011-08-26 23:04:42 <sytse> b4epoche_: well, it's like farming: when there are too many, ultimately competition is going to be so tough that some people have to drop out, and it will hurt them
1285 2011-08-26 23:04:47 <sytse> but that's economy
1286 2011-08-26 23:05:08 <b4epoche_> sytse:  what?
1287 2011-08-26 23:05:22 <b4epoche_> why you telling me that?
1288 2011-08-26 23:05:24 <nanotube> sytse: also, consider that if the 'average bitcoin user' has maybe 100btc or so... he's not really "much richer" than everyone else in the devolped world.
1289 2011-08-26 23:05:28 <sytse> too much supply => prices too low
1290 2011-08-26 23:05:47 <luke-jr> nanotube: he said average, not median
1291 2011-08-26 23:06:06 <cjdelisle> hangon I have a paste somewhere with all the math
1292 2011-08-26 23:06:09 <nanotube> which is not unlikely, there are 7million coins... maybe 50k-100k "users"...
1293 2011-08-26 23:06:40 <sytse> so a million dollars per user
1294 2011-08-26 23:06:43 <nanotube> luke-jr: meh, not that relevant to the overall point.
1295 2011-08-26 23:06:51 <nanotube> sytse: no, 7mil / 100k is 70
1296 2011-08-26 23:06:54 <nanotube> 70 coins is ... 700 bucks
1297 2011-08-26 23:07:01 <sytse> uh indeed
1298 2011-08-26 23:07:06 <sytse> a thousand coins per user
1299 2011-08-26 23:07:09 <sytse> *dollars
1300 2011-08-26 23:07:14 <sytse> I'm not thinking straight =]
1301 2011-08-26 23:07:43 <luke-jr> average American probably has less :P
1302 2011-08-26 23:07:43 <nanotube> i wish i had a million dollars... haha
1303 2011-08-26 23:07:51 <sytse> luke-jr: rofl
1304 2011-08-26 23:07:58 sacredchao has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1305 2011-08-26 23:08:01 <nanotube> hehe, once you net out the debt, possibly so
1306 2011-08-26 23:08:02 <sytse> nanotube: yeah, me too..
1307 2011-08-26 23:08:25 Titeuf_87 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1308 2011-08-26 23:08:34 <luke-jr> most Americans live paycheck to paycheck, I think
1309 2011-08-26 23:08:44 sacredchao has joined
1310 2011-08-26 23:08:52 Pinion has joined
1311 2011-08-26 23:09:00 <BitManiac> taking credit card is a lot more espensive than 3%
1312 2011-08-26 23:09:08 <BitManiac> 3% is just transaction fees
1313 2011-08-26 23:09:12 <nanotube> so iow, the current bitcoin price is "in the realm of reasonable" at worst, or quite undervalued at best. imo.
1314 2011-08-26 23:09:27 <nanotube> luke-jr: what paycheck? :P
1315 2011-08-26 23:09:30 <BitManiac> you've also got to have an account with a merchant bank
1316 2011-08-26 23:09:37 <BitManiac> then there's chargeback costs
1317 2011-08-26 23:09:45 <BitManiac> and if you want to avoid those, fraud prevention costs
1318 2011-08-26 23:09:45 <sytse> but I doubt there are 50k bitcoin users with at least as many bitcoins as they have money in their bank accounts plus savings accounts
1319 2011-08-26 23:09:53 <b4epoche_> http://www.visualeconomics.com/the-value-of-united-states-currency-in-circulation/
1320 2011-08-26 23:09:54 <sytse> plus cash
1321 2011-08-26 23:09:56 <edcba> ;;bc,mtgox
1322 2011-08-26 23:09:57 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":9.889,"low":7.642,"avg":8.890382398,"vwap":8.684594559,"vol":82906,"last":8,"buy":7.999,"sell":8}}
1323 2011-08-26 23:10:04 <BitManiac> it's more like between 5-10%, depending on the size of the compant
1324 2011-08-26 23:10:05 <BitManiac> y
1325 2011-08-26 23:10:38 <BitManiac> it's also a complete PITA to administer a payment gateway
1326 2011-08-26 23:10:38 <nanotube> sytse: well, chances are people with bitcoins tend to have rather more spare cash than those without, on average.
1327 2011-08-26 23:10:46 <BitManiac> so most companies outsource their checkout
1328 2011-08-26 23:10:47 <b4epoche_> BitManiac:  yes, it does add up
1329 2011-08-26 23:10:49 <BitManiac> so have to pay for that too
1330 2011-08-26 23:10:49 <nanotube> BitManiac: well, that's good news for bitcoin :)
1331 2011-08-26 23:11:10 <BitManiac> sure
1332 2011-08-26 23:11:13 <b4epoche_> BitManiac:  and it is a PITA even without a gateway
1333 2011-08-26 23:11:15 <sytse> so my point was, not many people or businesses have a significant amount of their liquid or semi-liquid (savings account) currency in bitcoins
1334 2011-08-26 23:11:58 <sytse> which makes me wonder how bitcoins could really be worth $8
1335 2011-08-26 23:12:11 <sytse> it's extremely hard to make a comparison though
1336 2011-08-26 23:12:12 <BitManiac> same as how a peice of gold is worth $1800
1337 2011-08-26 23:12:18 <BitManiac> people are prepared to pay it
1338 2011-08-26 23:12:22 <nanotube> sytse: oh, that's clearly due to speculative activity, pricing in expectations for the future.
1339 2011-08-26 23:12:37 <nanotube> it's not due to sitting in float accounts of various businesses
1340 2011-08-26 23:13:00 <BitManiac> yeah you're treating bitcoin like a Fiat currency
1341 2011-08-26 23:13:09 <BitManiac> there is no dollar reserve backing it up
1342 2011-08-26 23:13:11 <BitManiac> it is what it is
1343 2011-08-26 23:13:26 <sytse> BitManiac: oh, and of course stocks plus everything else material (like houses) people own and plan to sell one day is worth lots more than the total circulation
1344 2011-08-26 23:13:29 normanrichards has quit (Quit: normanrichards)
1345 2011-08-26 23:13:46 <BitManiac> sure
1346 2011-08-26 23:13:53 RandomMinds has joined
1347 2011-08-26 23:13:54 <sytse> so that would mean the total bitcoin value is manageable to keep up by the economy, because houses and stocks do so as well
1348 2011-08-26 23:13:58 <BitManiac> "worth" is only an idea someone has in their head
1349 2011-08-26 23:14:01 <BitManiac> it's meaningless really
1350 2011-08-26 23:14:05 <BitManiac> when you break it down
1351 2011-08-26 23:14:09 <nanotube> sytse: anyway.... feel free to borrow some coins and short them, or buy some put options, if you want to put your money where your mouth is. :)
1352 2011-08-26 23:14:11 <BitManiac> we've just become lazy in our thinking
1353 2011-08-26 23:14:17 <sytse> nanotube: nah
1354 2011-08-26 23:14:23 <BitManiac> conditioned by the banks and corporations to assume that prices are prices
1355 2011-08-26 23:14:30 <sytse> nanotube: I think over the next 6 months, prices will rise above $20 again
1356 2011-08-26 23:14:41 <BitManiac> and they only change a tiny amount, not worth worrying about really
1357 2011-08-26 23:14:41 <nanotube> mm :)
1358 2011-08-26 23:14:52 <BitManiac> but actually
1359 2011-08-26 23:15:01 <BitManiac> when gas prices can rise 200% in a few years
1360 2011-08-26 23:15:07 <BitManiac> people start to question the value of money
1361 2011-08-26 23:15:29 <sytse> nanotube: because of all the fancy new things bitcoin businesses are planning to introduce over the next few months
1362 2011-08-26 23:15:40 <nanotube> heh
1363 2011-08-26 23:15:46 <lfm> gas prices rise 20% in 2 minutes
1364 2011-08-26 23:15:57 <BitManiac> yeah
1365 2011-08-26 23:16:04 <BitManiac> price of crude goes up: gas goes up
1366 2011-08-26 23:16:11 <BitManiac> price of crude stays the same: gas goes up
1367 2011-08-26 23:16:18 <BitManiac> price of crude goes down: gas goes up
1368 2011-08-26 23:16:20 <BitManiac> nice one.
1369 2011-08-26 23:16:27 <BitManiac> thanks, big oil companies! :D
1370 2011-08-26 23:16:39 <BitManiac> without you I'd have far too much spare money just sitting around
1371 2011-08-26 23:16:42 <BitManiac> making me sad
1372 2011-08-26 23:16:46 <BitManiac> thanks for heling me spend it
1373 2011-08-26 23:16:51 <sytse> (but according to both btctrading.wordpress.com and bitcoinwatch.com, the current bearish trend is not set to change at all in the short term, which I would agree with, so I guess we'll see it drop below $5 within the next few weeks)
1374 2011-08-26 23:17:13 * b4epoche_ walks to work
1375 2011-08-26 23:17:15 <BitManiac> neither of those websites can see the future
1376 2011-08-26 23:17:22 <BitManiac> you can spend your life sitting looking at graphs
1377 2011-08-26 23:17:27 <sytse> BitManiac: btw, gas prices rose less where I live
1378 2011-08-26 23:17:35 <BitManiac> you have as much chance as guessing the market as anyone else
1379 2011-08-26 23:17:42 <sytse> because the taxes are phenomenal here
1380 2011-08-26 23:18:24 <BitManiac> sweden?
1381 2011-08-26 23:19:15 <sytse> the netherlands
1382 2011-08-26 23:19:28 <BitManiac> fair one
1383 2011-08-26 23:19:40 <BitManiac> nobody pays more for gas in europe than us in the UK though I don't think
1384 2011-08-26 23:20:05 <BitManiac> we have 85% tax rate or something stupid like that
1385 2011-08-26 23:20:13 fathead has quit (Quit: leaving)
1386 2011-08-26 23:22:27 noagendamarket has joined
1387 2011-08-26 23:22:52 Pinion has quit (Quit: Has quit)
1388 2011-08-26 23:23:10 <sytse> BitManiac: I pay € 1.60 per liter, which is $8.781/gal
1389 2011-08-26 23:23:14 <sytse> oh
1390 2011-08-26 23:23:16 <sytse> UK
1391 2011-08-26 23:23:46 <sytse> £1.417/l
1392 2011-08-26 23:23:54 <sytse> is what I'd pay BitManiac
1393 2011-08-26 23:24:01 <sytse> here across the street anyway
1394 2011-08-26 23:24:48 <sytse> ahem
1395 2011-08-26 23:24:58 <sytse> ridiculous indeed, when I look back at the prices in 2008
1396 2011-08-26 23:25:06 <sytse> (I didn't have a car back then)
1397 2011-08-26 23:28:02 erus` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1398 2011-08-26 23:30:15 copumpkin has joined
1399 2011-08-26 23:33:37 mosimo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1400 2011-08-26 23:34:37 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1401 2011-08-26 23:36:08 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
1402 2011-08-26 23:40:41 Pinion has joined
1403 2011-08-26 23:42:53 gut4 has joined
1404 2011-08-26 23:44:14 gut4 has quit (Client Quit)
1405 2011-08-26 23:44:25 gut4 has joined
1406 2011-08-26 23:49:46 <cjdelisle> sytse: http://bitcoinanalisys.pastebay.com/136608
1407 2011-08-26 23:50:31 <cjdelisle> 20,035,650 dollars worth of mining equipment
1408 2011-08-26 23:51:14 <cjdelisle> 18,450 kilowatts and each minted coin requires 18,450 / 300 or 61.5 kilowatthours
1409 2011-08-26 23:51:26 Pinion has quit (Quit: Has quit)
1410 2011-08-26 23:51:38 <luke-jr> on average*
1411 2011-08-26 23:51:59 <cjdelisle> yea, those are all bastardavrigizations
1412 2011-08-26 23:52:02 <phantomcircuit> cjdelisle, shockingly the profit involed in mining has dropped to almost nothing
1413 2011-08-26 23:52:05 <phantomcircuit> who would have guessed
1414 2011-08-26 23:52:20 <cjdelisle> I never got in to mining because I predicted this
1415 2011-08-26 23:52:37 <sytse> cjdelisle: damn
1416 2011-08-26 23:52:44 <cjdelisle> need a wpa for btc site
1417 2011-08-26 23:52:56 <cjdelisle> so people can mine something else...
1418 2011-08-26 23:53:34 <cjdelisle> not necessarily wpa, there are pharmapsutical companies, financials, etc who might have raw data they want crunched on an opencl army
1419 2011-08-26 23:54:01 normanrichards has joined
1420 2011-08-26 23:54:29 GMP has joined
1421 2011-08-26 23:55:07 <cjdelisle> eventially all mining will be done by botnets and mining rigs will generally be unprofitable
1422 2011-08-26 23:55:47 <cjdelisle> also botnets are the other ? factor, how much of that $20M is involuntary?
1423 2011-08-26 23:58:52 RandomMinds has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)