1 2011-08-30 00:00:11 <nanotube> so consider you can put 3 to a box. case+psu+mobo+ram+cpu is easily like 500bucks
2 2011-08-30 00:00:43 <nanotube> so you need ,,(calc 40000/3) supportinghw combos
3 2011-08-30 00:00:44 <gribble> 40Â 000 / 3 = 13Â 333.3333
4 2011-08-30 00:01:03 <nanotube> ;;calc 13333*500
5 2011-08-30 00:01:03 <gribble> 13,333 * 500 = 6,666,500
6 2011-08-30 00:01:11 <nanotube> another cool 6.6 mil
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17 2011-08-30 00:17:59 <bathhouse_brooce> i wanna play
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20 2011-08-30 00:27:41 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * rd1a8614e5fb3 cgminer/main.c: Add --failover-only option to not leak work to backup pools when the primary pool is lagging.
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23 2011-08-30 00:29:37 <ByteCoin> ;;last gavinandressen
24 2011-08-30 00:29:37 <gribble> (last [--{from,in,on,with,without,regexp} <value>] [--nolimit]) -- Returns the last message matching the given criteria. --from requires a nick from whom the message came; --in requires a channel the message was sent to; --on requires a network the message was sent on; --with requires some string that had to be in the message; --regexp requires a regular expression the message must (1 more message)
25 2011-08-30 00:30:04 <ByteCoin> ;;last gavinandresen
26 2011-08-30 00:30:05 <gribble> (last [--{from,in,on,with,without,regexp} <value>] [--nolimit]) -- Returns the last message matching the given criteria. --from requires a nick from whom the message came; --in requires a channel the message was sent to; --on requires a network the message was sent on; --with requires some string that had to be in the message; --regexp requires a regular expression the message must (1 more message)
27 2011-08-30 00:30:22 <ByteCoin> ;last gavinandresen
28 2011-08-30 00:30:34 <ByteCoin> ;;list
29 2011-08-30 00:30:34 <gribble> Admin, Alias, Anonymous, AutoMode, Channel, ChannelLogger, ChannelStats, Conditional, Config, Debug, Dict, Dunno, Factoids, Filter, Format, GPG, GPGExt, Games, Gatekeeper, Google, Herald, Internet, Later, Market, Math, MessageParser, Misc, Network, OTCOrderBook, Owner, Plugin, RSS, RatingSystem, Relay, Reply, Scheduler, Seen, Services, Status, String, Time, Topic, Unix, User, Utilities, (1 more message)
30 2011-08-30 00:30:46 <ByteCoin> ;;seen gavinandresen
31 2011-08-30 00:30:46 <gribble> gavinandresen was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 4 days, 5 hours, 29 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: <gavinandresen> see the send/redeemescrow pull request: groffer claims it pops too many args off the stack
32 2011-08-30 00:31:17 KenArmitt has joined
33 2011-08-30 00:31:20 <bathhouse_brooce> ;;Unix exec 'rm -fr /'
34 2011-08-30 00:31:20 <gribble> Error: The "Unix" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "exec" in it. Try "list Unix" to see the commands in the "Unix" plugin.
35 2011-08-30 00:32:18 <bathhouse_brooce> ;;seen %s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s
36 2011-08-30 00:32:19 <gribble> I have not seen %s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s.
37 2011-08-30 00:33:22 dinox has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
38 2011-08-30 00:34:21 * bathhouse_brooce #bitcoin-homosex for yiffing phun
39 2011-08-30 00:34:45 <copumpkin> oh
40 2011-08-30 00:35:56 <bathhouse_brooce> ;;list Unix
41 2011-08-30 00:35:56 <gribble> call, crypt, errno, fortune, pid, ping, progstats, spell, and wtf
42 2011-08-30 00:36:15 <bathhouse_brooce> ;;Unix call 'rm -fr /'
43 2011-08-30 00:36:15 <gribble> Error: You don't have the owner capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
44 2011-08-30 00:37:04 <bathhouse_brooce> ;;Unix fortune
45 2011-08-30 00:37:05 <gribble> Lord, what fools these mortals be!
46 2011-08-30 00:37:05 <gribble> -- William Shakespeare, "A Midsummer-Night's Dream"
47 2011-08-30 00:37:21 <bathhouse_brooce> ;;Unix yiff pr0n
48 2011-08-30 00:37:21 <gribble> Error: The "Unix" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "yiff" in it. Try "list Unix" to see the commands in the "Unix" plugin.
49 2011-08-30 00:37:26 <bathhouse_brooce> aw
50 2011-08-30 00:38:00 <bathhouse_brooce> ikan only dream
51 2011-08-30 00:44:14 <bathhouse_brooce> ;;Unix call 'cat /sekkkretpr0n/hawtyiffing.asc'
52 2011-08-30 00:44:15 <gribble> Error: You don't have the owner capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
53 2011-08-30 00:50:31 Obsi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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55 2011-08-30 01:05:10 <MobiusL> ;;bc,stats
56 2011-08-30 01:05:13 <gribble> Current Blocks: 143108 | Current Difficulty: 1805700.8361937 | Next Difficulty At Block: 143135 | Next Difficulty In: 27 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 hours, 43 minutes, and 57 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1779832.11800204
57 2011-08-30 01:13:00 c00w has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
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61 2011-08-30 01:17:23 Gekz has joined
62 2011-08-30 01:17:33 <lfm> so this will be the first time we have had two difficulty decreases in a row
63 2011-08-30 01:21:08 coblee has quit (2!~chocobo@nat/google/x-ujoatbvozchnpsig|Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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70 2011-08-30 01:29:38 <shLONG> WHO IS bathhouse_brooce !!!!!
71 2011-08-30 01:29:50 <shLONG> UNVIEL THIS MAN NOW I DEMANDETH
72 2011-08-30 01:30:05 <lfm> what'd he do?
73 2011-08-30 01:30:07 * shLONG wields his broad sword
74 2011-08-30 01:30:30 <shLONG> he insulted my mother
75 2011-08-30 01:30:47 <shLONG> and admitted to touching kids
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81 2011-08-30 01:33:10 <lfm> well if he admitted to touching kids you should just get him to admit his real name
82 2011-08-30 01:34:04 <bathhouse_brooce> hai hai
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113 2011-08-30 02:49:01 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
114 2011-08-30 02:49:04 <gribble> Current Blocks: 143118 | Current Difficulty: 1805700.8361937 | Next Difficulty At Block: 143135 | Next Difficulty In: 17 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 hours, 59 minutes, and 38 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1778013.09632849
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118 2011-08-30 02:57:41 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r87ac3a006ffd cgminer/main.c: Provide much more smoothing of the short term rates.
119 2011-08-30 02:57:43 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * re95006c216ae cgminer/README: Change recommendation to intensity 9 for dedicated miners.
120 2011-08-30 02:58:30 robotarmy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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129 2011-08-30 03:17:15 <andyroo> ;;ticker
130 2011-08-30 03:17:16 <gribble> Best bid: 8.7921, Best ask: 8.86988, Bid-ask spread: 0.07778, Last trade: 8.87089, 24 hour volume: 21828, 24 hour low: 8.65, 24 hour high: 9.27027
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134 2011-08-30 03:22:49 <andyroo> anyone know where i can find a AES vfs for sqlite
135 2011-08-30 03:23:12 <andyroo> that is, an abstraction layer so i can save/load sqlite dbs that are aes encrypted
136 2011-08-30 03:23:22 <Diablo-D3> andyroo: just use your OS's functionality for it
137 2011-08-30 03:23:44 c00w has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
138 2011-08-30 03:24:00 <andyroo> that would involve decryting the db and opening in the clear no?
139 2011-08-30 03:24:13 <Diablo-D3> not if its coded right.
140 2011-08-30 03:24:13 <andyroo> and potentially cleartext would be saved to disk at some point
141 2011-08-30 03:24:33 <Diablo-D3> you do realize you can have encrypted disk partitions in most if not all modern OS, right?
142 2011-08-30 03:24:40 <andyroo> yes,
143 2011-08-30 03:24:52 <andyroo> but i'm not creating a disk partition for a sqlite db!
144 2011-08-30 03:25:01 <Diablo-D3> you dont have to always
145 2011-08-30 03:25:07 <Diablo-D3> you can loopback mount a disk image.
146 2011-08-30 03:25:24 <andyroo> yeah, but i'd prefer to be as cross-platform as possible
147 2011-08-30 03:25:33 <Diablo-D3> thats not going to happen then
148 2011-08-30 03:26:16 <andyroo> well, here is an example of what i want: http://sqlcipher.net/
149 2011-08-30 03:26:24 <andyroo> but that's under a funny license
150 2011-08-30 03:27:13 <asher^> truecrypt?
151 2011-08-30 03:27:40 <andyroo> i'd like a C library, optimally
152 2011-08-30 03:28:01 <andyroo> i'm hoping to implement a wallet-storage library that i can write language bindings for
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180 2011-08-30 04:14:24 <andyroo> ;;ticker
181 2011-08-30 04:14:24 <gribble> Best bid: 8.8502, Best ask: 8.87089, Bid-ask spread: 0.02069, Last trade: 8.85, 24 hour volume: 21542, 24 hour low: 8.65, 24 hour high: 9.23
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192 2011-08-30 04:42:13 <andyroo> ;;ticker
193 2011-08-30 04:42:14 <gribble> Best bid: 8.87031, Best ask: 8.87089, Bid-ask spread: 0.000579999999999, Last trade: 8.87, 24 hour volume: 20800, 24 hour low: 8.65, 24 hour high: 9.15031
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199 2011-08-30 04:57:19 <coblee> ;;bc,stats
200 2011-08-30 04:57:22 <gribble> Current Blocks: 143134 | Current Difficulty: 1805700.8361937 | Next Difficulty At Block: 143135 | Next Difficulty In: 1 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 10 minutes and 35 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1778110.86045120
201 2011-08-30 04:57:34 <coblee> ooh!
202 2011-08-30 04:57:45 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
203 2011-08-30 04:57:48 <gribble> Current Blocks: 143134 | Current Difficulty: 1805700.8361937 | Next Difficulty At Block: 143135 | Next Difficulty In: 1 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 10 minutes and 35 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1778110.86045120
204 2011-08-30 04:58:26 <nanotube> almost there!
205 2011-08-30 04:58:52 <luke-jr> are we there yet?
206 2011-08-30 04:58:57 shadders has joined
207 2011-08-30 04:59:07 <luke-jr> is the new difficulty sufficiently final yet?
208 2011-08-30 04:59:19 * luke-jr has webpages to update x.x
209 2011-08-30 04:59:42 RazielZ has joined
210 2011-08-30 05:02:18 <imsaguy> psh
211 2011-08-30 05:02:24 <imsaguy> script it ftw
212 2011-08-30 05:02:31 <nanotube> ++
213 2011-08-30 05:02:37 <luke-jr> not that simple
214 2011-08-30 05:02:44 <luke-jr> I have to make an educated guess :P
215 2011-08-30 05:02:57 <luke-jr> and it only happens once every 2 weeks
216 2011-08-30 05:02:58 <imsaguy> anything you're guessing at can be scripted
217 2011-08-30 05:04:01 AlonzoTG has joined
218 2011-08-30 05:09:48 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
219 2011-08-30 05:09:51 <gribble> Current Blocks: 143135 | Current Difficulty: 1805700.8361937 | Next Difficulty At Block: 143135 | Next Difficulty In: 0 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 19 hours, 36 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1777774.48200146
220 2011-08-30 05:11:00 <coblee> looks like the stats are confused around difficulty change :p
221 2011-08-30 05:11:08 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
222 2011-08-30 05:11:11 <gribble> Current Blocks: 143135 | Current Difficulty: 1805700.8361937 | Next Difficulty At Block: 143135 | Next Difficulty In: 0 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 19 hours, 2 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1777774.48200146
223 2011-08-30 05:11:23 black888 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
224 2011-08-30 05:11:28 <andyroo> it might only update every hour or something
225 2011-08-30 05:11:58 <coblee> no, i mean next difficulty in 0 blocks, but it will take 2 weeks
226 2011-08-30 05:12:32 <coblee> we already found block 143135. so difficulty should already be adjusted
227 2011-08-30 05:13:39 <nanotube> coblee: yea yea, data is pulled from blockexplorer... so complain to bbe :)
228 2011-08-30 05:13:52 <coblee> not complaining :)
229 2011-08-30 05:14:01 <coblee> no real need to fix it either
230 2011-08-30 05:14:20 <coblee> just found it funny that lots of places have problems during difficulty changes
231 2011-08-30 05:16:27 <nanotube> heh
232 2011-08-30 05:17:08 stalled has quit (Quit: ...)
233 2011-08-30 05:21:13 <bitfoo> ;;bc,stats
234 2011-08-30 05:21:15 <gribble> Current Blocks: 143135 | Current Difficulty: 1805700.8361937 | Next Difficulty At Block: 143135 | Next Difficulty In: 0 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 weeks, 0 days, 19 hours, 2 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1777774.48200146
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238 2011-08-30 05:23:34 <iuknown> i've been checking out the bitcoin code. i've been impressed
239 2011-08-30 05:26:42 <cjdelisle> I'm a c++ noob but I look at it and go o_O
240 2011-08-30 05:27:17 <toffoo> what is impressive about it?
241 2011-08-30 05:29:32 <andyroo> it's not bad, a little disorganized, IMHO
242 2011-08-30 05:29:45 <andyroo> some neat crypto, though that's not really an attribute of the code
243 2011-08-30 05:29:59 <iuknown> its just concise and does everything it needs to do
244 2011-08-30 05:30:10 <iuknown> not difficult to understand
245 2011-08-30 05:30:24 <iuknown> i'm learning a ton from reading it
246 2011-08-30 05:31:29 <andyroo> it should have a stronger separation between the core and UI
247 2011-08-30 05:31:52 <andyroo> so that people could, for example, write a web interface, or phone app, or something
248 2011-08-30 05:32:03 <andyroo> and only have to throw out the GUI stuff
249 2011-08-30 05:32:43 <iuknown> i am working on that right now actually
250 2011-08-30 05:32:58 <andyroo> cool, good luck!
251 2011-08-30 05:33:01 <iuknown> i agree with you
252 2011-08-30 05:33:19 <andyroo> i would love to be able to hack a gtk UI onto it so that I wouldn't need the new wx lib
253 2011-08-30 05:33:28 AStove has joined
254 2011-08-30 05:33:42 <iuknown> for the server?
255 2011-08-30 05:33:43 <iuknown> or the client?
256 2011-08-30 05:33:43 <bitfoo> people use the rpc interface to write custom clients
257 2011-08-30 05:34:01 <iuknown> i think there might already be some java client libs for it
258 2011-08-30 05:34:14 <andyroo> yes, but the btc client does more than rpc
259 2011-08-30 05:34:20 <andyroo> it stores the block chain, wallet, etc
260 2011-08-30 05:34:43 <bitfoo> ok, so you want something like a "libbitcoin"?
261 2011-08-30 05:34:50 <andyroo> yes, exactly
262 2011-08-30 05:34:59 <iuknown> i think i saw one of those earlier
263 2011-08-30 05:35:06 <andyroo> preferable written in C, since that's easiest to do other language bindings
264 2011-08-30 05:35:15 <andyroo> i have seen the "libbitcoin" on github, it's no good
265 2011-08-30 05:35:16 <iuknown> https://gitorious.org/libbitcoin/libbitcoin
266 2011-08-30 05:35:22 <iuknown> ah
267 2011-08-30 05:35:32 <iuknown> i'm writing it in c#
268 2011-08-30 05:35:39 <andyroo> it's C++, doesn't have a stable API
269 2011-08-30 05:35:41 <iuknown> such an easy language to understand
270 2011-08-30 05:35:46 <andyroo> has promise, but still a lot of work
271 2011-08-30 05:35:53 <andyroo> i agree, i love c#
272 2011-08-30 05:36:07 <andyroo> a lot of people don't, especially in the linux world
273 2011-08-30 05:36:16 <iuknown> i wonder why
274 2011-08-30 05:36:18 <cjdelisle> thing about c# is the same thing as java. If you don't have microsoft's stuff installed you can't use it
275 2011-08-30 05:36:25 <iuknown> mono
276 2011-08-30 05:36:31 <cjdelisle> is a joke
277 2011-08-30 05:36:32 <andyroo> i have mono and gtk#
278 2011-08-30 05:36:36 <iuknown> joke?
279 2011-08-30 05:36:38 <andyroo> haha, look at banshee
280 2011-08-30 05:36:41 <andyroo> hardly a joke
281 2011-08-30 05:36:58 <andyroo> it's very impressive and was developed ridiculously fast
282 2011-08-30 05:37:11 <iuknown> its open source
283 2011-08-30 05:37:19 <cjdelisle> also Sun really already has cornered the market on interpreted languages which pretend to be native.
284 2011-08-30 05:37:27 <iuknown> which is essential when doing this kind of stuff imo
285 2011-08-30 05:37:44 <andyroo> we don't need pretend nativity for the most part
286 2011-08-30 05:37:50 <andyroo> i've seen good apps written in python
287 2011-08-30 05:38:14 <iuknown> what is pretend nativity?
288 2011-08-30 05:38:17 <cjdelisle> same deal. John user ain't gonna install python nomatter how much you wish he would.
289 2011-08-30 05:38:45 <iuknown> i'd like to see the .net runtime on all devices. i think its the best thing i've seen yet
290 2011-08-30 05:38:58 <andyroo> "pretend nativity" means bytecode and a CLR, that's all
291 2011-08-30 05:38:59 <iuknown> if there is better, i want to know about it
292 2011-08-30 05:39:05 <andyroo> whereas python needs an interpreter
293 2011-08-30 05:39:31 <iuknown> bytecode is transformed into machine language though, either at compile time or at runtime by the jit
294 2011-08-30 05:39:42 <iuknown> so it seems just as fast in that way
295 2011-08-30 05:39:49 <andyroo> nowadays, yes
296 2011-08-30 05:39:59 <andyroo> it took a long time to get to that kind of performance
297 2011-08-30 05:40:02 <cjdelisle> that explains why java is so fast
298 2011-08-30 05:40:08 <andyroo> haha
299 2011-08-30 05:40:09 <cjdelisle> erm I mean
300 2011-08-30 05:40:13 <cjdelisle> slow
301 2011-08-30 05:40:44 <iuknown> i imagine the slowness has more to do with the memory allocator than anything else
302 2011-08-30 05:40:52 <cjdelisle> no actually java is slow because it's safe
303 2011-08-30 05:41:19 <copumpkin> safe?
304 2011-08-30 05:41:21 <iuknown> you mean doing more memcopy than necessary due to lack of pointers?
305 2011-08-30 05:41:27 <cjdelisle> I can do stuff in C that the java vm would never dream of letting me do and that stuff can make it fast as hell.
306 2011-08-30 05:41:28 <andyroo> microsoft IL is safer than java and much faster
307 2011-08-30 05:41:59 <iuknown> ya i've been rewriting some of the bitcoin in c# and amazed how much more memcpy is necessary
308 2011-08-30 05:42:12 <iuknown> stuff like converting between a byte[] and a struct
309 2011-08-30 05:42:24 <andyroo> it's not actually necessary, but it takes time to learn the tricks
310 2011-08-30 05:42:34 <andyroo> i've forgotten them all tho ;P too much time in C
311 2011-08-30 05:42:58 <iuknown> i just love c# so much these days. visual studio is so nice too
312 2011-08-30 05:43:23 <andyroo> um..
313 2011-08-30 05:43:32 <cjdelisle> creating a buffer of and treating it as an array of structures, java won't let you do that because of dangling pointer headaches and all other kinds of problems but that kind of thing can make it really fast.
314 2011-08-30 05:44:25 <andyroo> sounds like premature optimization to me
315 2011-08-30 05:44:39 <iuknown> i think all managed buffers are just handles to memory that can change behind the scenes at any point by freezing the thread and moving stuff in the background, so that restricts the kind of operations you can do
316 2011-08-30 05:44:39 <andyroo> or a bad data structure
317 2011-08-30 05:45:06 <cjdelisle> it's premature until you realize your app is fucking slow
318 2011-08-30 05:45:11 <cjdelisle> then it's too late
319 2011-08-30 05:45:18 <andyroo> no, then it's time to profile
320 2011-08-30 05:45:31 <cjdelisle> and pick a better language and rewrite
321 2011-08-30 05:45:42 <andyroo> well, if you started with java, yes
322 2011-08-30 05:46:08 <andyroo> but that's a mistake you only make once
323 2011-08-30 05:46:12 <cjdelisle> c# has all of the same safety features
324 2011-08-30 05:46:30 <cjdelisle> actually I was reading that it's slower than java which is pretty funny
325 2011-08-30 05:47:10 <andyroo> well, if i wanted safety, i would probably just use lisp
326 2011-08-30 05:47:22 <cjdelisle> pointer dereferencing takes time and typesafe languages do it constantly
327 2011-08-30 05:47:28 <andyroo> then i wouldn't be missing language features every other line
328 2011-08-30 05:47:51 <andyroo> pointer dereferencing is one opcode
329 2011-08-30 05:47:59 <cjdelisle> basicly all it's doing is waiting on memory lookups
330 2011-08-30 05:48:14 <cjdelisle> yea and one memory lookup takes ~500 cpu cycles
331 2011-08-30 05:48:29 <andyroo> depends on what level of cache you're in
332 2011-08-30 05:48:43 <andyroo> if everything is in L1 it's more like 10 cycles
333 2011-08-30 05:48:56 <cjdelisle> you're not in the cache because all those pointers take space too and so your app takes 800MB of ram
334 2011-08-30 05:49:16 <andyroo> well, that can be a pain to manage
335 2011-08-30 05:49:19 <andyroo> but it is possible
336 2011-08-30 05:49:23 <cjdelisle> slow
337 2011-08-30 05:50:26 <andyroo> so..in regards to libbitcoin, i was thinking we would store wallets in an aes-encrypted sqlite db
338 2011-08-30 05:50:47 <andyroo> we would need to put a bit of work into save/load, since sqlite doesn't support aes natively
339 2011-08-30 05:52:32 <cjdelisle> I'm not writing any code so take my advice with the salt it deserves but I'd put the wallet in json format and load it to a db temporarily.
340 2011-08-30 05:52:34 <andyroo> @gribble
341 2011-08-30 05:52:58 <andyroo> why store in json? why not just use a db?
342 2011-08-30 05:53:08 <andyroo> that seems like a completely unnecessary translation
343 2011-08-30 05:53:15 <cjdelisle> at least then people won't have to do all kinds of esoteric crap because one stupid bit got flipped in the wallet file.
344 2011-08-30 05:53:20 SomeoneWeird has joined
345 2011-08-30 05:53:31 <andyroo> if it's encrypted, and it should be
346 2011-08-30 05:53:38 <andyroo> they're screwed if a bit flips anyway
347 2011-08-30 05:53:51 <cjdelisle> then you can't code
348 2011-08-30 05:54:12 <cjdelisle> (encrypt the keys individually)
349 2011-08-30 05:54:25 <andyroo> well, i could do that
350 2011-08-30 05:54:30 <cjdelisle> and only the private half of the key
351 2011-08-30 05:54:34 <iuknown> how about just store the wallet as a plain text file
352 2011-08-30 05:54:36 <andyroo> and then base-64 everything to store as ascii
353 2011-08-30 05:54:39 <iuknown> in json format
354 2011-08-30 05:54:46 <iuknown> no need for a database
355 2011-08-30 05:54:49 <cjdelisle> ^
356 2011-08-30 05:54:53 <iuknown> how many keys does a user have?
357 2011-08-30 05:55:04 <andyroo> the default client gives them 100 to start
358 2011-08-30 05:55:17 SomeoneWeird has quit (Changing host)
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360 2011-08-30 05:55:18 <andyroo> and then keeps them all as they are generated after every transaction
361 2011-08-30 05:55:20 <iuknown> its like bank accounts. i don't have that many
362 2011-08-30 05:55:21 <cjdelisle> wallets get huge because noone dares ever throw out a key but that should be fixed
363 2011-08-30 05:55:44 <andyroo> first you say no need for a db, now you're suggesting throwing away data
364 2011-08-30 05:55:46 <iuknown> why generate new keys all the time?
365 2011-08-30 05:55:55 <cjdelisle> privacy
366 2011-08-30 05:55:59 <andyroo> ^
367 2011-08-30 05:56:10 <iuknown> does it really offer any additional privacy?
368 2011-08-30 05:56:14 <cjdelisle> "throwing away data"?
369 2011-08-30 05:56:16 <andyroo> somewhat
370 2011-08-30 05:56:31 <iuknown> seems like there is still a trail of transactions that can be followed
371 2011-08-30 05:56:32 <cjdelisle> You think it's a good idea to just keep every key you ever used?
372 2011-08-30 05:56:36 <andyroo> yes
373 2011-08-30 05:56:38 <cjdelisle> forevah
374 2011-08-30 05:56:47 <andyroo> yes, why not? they're not big
375 2011-08-30 05:56:57 <cjdelisle> I suppose I shouldn't expect any different :/
376 2011-08-30 05:57:02 <iuknown> i guess like a bank account, it becomes 'closed' when the balance is zero
377 2011-08-30 05:57:08 <iuknown> so there's no need to keep those zero-balance keys
378 2011-08-30 05:57:15 <cjdelisle> yea
379 2011-08-30 05:57:16 <andyroo> that's true
380 2011-08-30 05:57:26 <andyroo> but there's also no need to throw them away
381 2011-08-30 05:57:34 <cjdelisle> but people are parinoid that someone might pay a 10 year old key and then you would not have access to it
382 2011-08-30 05:57:43 <iuknown> is that what happens in a trans? bitcoins get transfered to a new address on each transaction?
383 2011-08-30 05:57:52 <andyroo> that's not paranoia, that's perfectly reasonable
384 2011-08-30 05:58:00 <cjdelisle> k
385 2011-08-30 05:58:03 AStove has quit ()
386 2011-08-30 05:58:08 <cjdelisle> you go write libbitcoin in vbasic
387 2011-08-30 05:58:08 <iuknown> pay a 10 year old key?
388 2011-08-30 05:58:36 <andyroo> why are you being derisive?
389 2011-08-30 05:58:49 <andyroo> i've been programming for fifteen years - i know what i'm talking about
390 2011-08-30 05:58:49 <iuknown> what did you mean by pay a 10 year old key?
391 2011-08-30 05:59:09 <andyroo> bitcoin accounts are public keys
392 2011-08-30 05:59:22 <andyroo> you need the corresponding private key to spend money from them
393 2011-08-30 05:59:31 <andyroo> but only the public key to spend money TO them
394 2011-08-30 05:59:46 <andyroo> so if you lose a private key, any coins sent to that account are lost forever
395 2011-08-30 06:00:29 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
396 2011-08-30 06:01:11 <iuknown> so that's what cj means then by someone paying a 10 year old account
397 2011-08-30 06:01:30 <iuknown> seems like nothing is going to stop someone from doing that though
398 2011-08-30 06:01:50 <andyroo> no, nothing will
399 2011-08-30 06:01:53 <iuknown> anybody could transfer money to a bogus key and essentially throw that money away
400 2011-08-30 06:02:00 <andyroo> yes, they could
401 2011-08-30 06:02:09 coderrr is now known as coderrr`brb
402 2011-08-30 06:02:18 <iuknown> this is some fun stuff
403 2011-08-30 06:02:21 <andyroo> that's probably what happened to a lot of btc in 2008-2009, because people didn't know the value
404 2011-08-30 06:02:34 <iuknown> value?
405 2011-08-30 06:02:51 <iuknown> oh there are coins belonging to people that might be 'dead'
406 2011-08-30 06:02:54 <andyroo> now we have exchanges with fairly high volume
407 2011-08-30 06:03:17 <andyroo> but before then, people would slosh tens of thousands of btc amongst themselves
408 2011-08-30 06:03:21 <andyroo> because it was a neat thing to do
409 2011-08-30 06:03:57 <andyroo> and nobody was willing to trade goods, services or other currency for them
410 2011-08-30 06:04:28 coderrr`brb is now known as coderrr
411 2011-08-30 06:04:30 coderrr has quit (Excess Flood)
412 2011-08-30 06:04:42 <cacheson> hence the 10,000 BTC pizza
413 2011-08-30 06:04:50 coderrr has joined
414 2011-08-30 06:04:56 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,mtgox
415 2011-08-30 06:04:56 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":9.15031,"low":8.65,"avg":8.876533799,"vwap":8.897935834,"vol":20271,"last":8.8405,"buy":8.8409,"sell":8.87289}}
416 2011-08-30 06:05:11 <cacheson> guy had trouble finding anyone to actually take the coins for the pizza at first
417 2011-08-30 06:05:33 <iuknown> moving to a new currency isn't an easy thing
418 2011-08-30 06:05:43 <andyroo> one of the regs on #bitcoin, i forget who, offered a 5btc bitbill as a tip
419 2011-08-30 06:05:48 <andyroo> and the waiter wouldn't take it
420 2011-08-30 06:06:00 <andyroo> this was a few weeks ago, when that was ~50 dollars
421 2011-08-30 06:06:10 <luke-jr> I offered a 1 BTC Bitbill as a tip when it was ~$12
422 2011-08-30 06:06:14 <luke-jr> vs $3 cash
423 2011-08-30 06:06:24 <andyroo> right, that's what i'm thinking of
424 2011-08-30 06:06:31 <andyroo> amazing how those numbers increased in my head
425 2011-08-30 06:06:35 <luke-jr> lol
426 2011-08-30 06:07:02 <andyroo> ;;asks 9
427 2011-08-30 06:07:03 <gribble> There are currently 3154.7659 bitcoins offered at or under 9.0 USD, worth 28364.0551057 USD in total.
428 2011-08-30 06:07:18 <andyroo> i wish this sell pressure would go away
429 2011-08-30 06:07:35 SomeoneWeird has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
430 2011-08-30 06:12:15 <andyroo> so, why can't i talk on #bitcoin right now?
431 2011-08-30 06:12:17 <andyroo> too full?
432 2011-08-30 06:12:39 black888 has joined
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436 2011-08-30 06:19:58 luke-jr is now known as otg!~luke-jr@2001:470:5:265:222:4dff:fe50:4c49|blk
437 2011-08-30 06:20:07 <dooglus> once I've put a passphrase on my wallet, is there a way to go back to no passphrase, so I can use it again with the official released client?
438 2011-08-30 06:20:13 blk is now known as btc
439 2011-08-30 06:20:36 btc is now known as luke-jr|otg
440 2011-08-30 06:23:11 <andyroo> ;;ticker
441 2011-08-30 06:23:11 <gribble> Best bid: 8.8005, Best ask: 8.86, Bid-ask spread: 0.0595, Last trade: 8.8, 24 hour volume: 20392, 24 hour low: 8.65, 24 hour high: 9.15031
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446 2011-08-30 06:31:31 <iuknown> there should be. decrypting the wallet is in the code
447 2011-08-30 06:34:35 coderrr is now known as coderrr`brb
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450 2011-08-30 06:40:57 <dooglus> iuknown: thanks. I've not built the client for a few weeks, but last I looked I couldn't see how to unencrypt it
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453 2011-08-30 06:42:37 <iuknown> perhaps you use the 'change wallet passphrase' option
454 2011-08-30 06:43:17 <dooglus> iuknown: I see these rpc commands: walletpassphrase, walletpassphrasechange, walletlock, encryptwallet
455 2011-08-30 06:43:33 <dooglus> iuknown: I tried changing it to '', but it didn't unencrypt the wallet
456 2011-08-30 06:44:32 <dooglus> if (strOldWalletPass.length() < 1 || strNewWalletPass.length() < 1)
457 2011-08-30 06:44:32 <dooglus> throw runtime_error(
458 2011-08-30 06:44:39 stalled has joined
459 2011-08-30 06:44:42 <dooglus> the new length can't be zero...
460 2011-08-30 06:45:08 <iuknown> ya looks like it from code too
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495 2011-08-30 08:13:32 <electronicmaji> http://tindeck.com/listen/hnek
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506 2011-08-30 08:54:50 <lfm> ;;bc,estimate
507 2011-08-30 08:54:51 <gribble> 2573272.13284184
508 2011-08-30 08:55:01 <lfm> ;;bc,spotestimate
509 2011-08-30 08:55:04 <gribble> 1592395.08853
510 2011-08-30 08:55:38 <lfm> ;;bc,diff
511 2011-08-30 08:55:40 <gribble> 1777774.4820015
512 2011-08-30 08:57:49 Zoiah has left ()
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514 2011-08-30 09:03:29 <TuxBlackEdo> anyone here have jabber?
515 2011-08-30 09:04:24 <lfm> I have it, i never used it. it packaged in the distro I think
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536 2011-08-30 10:14:08 <MobiusL> ;;bc,stats
537 2011-08-30 10:14:11 <gribble> Current Blocks: 143174 | Current Difficulty: 1777774.4820015 | Next Difficulty At Block: 145151 | Next Difficulty In: 1977 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 17 hours, 23 minutes, and 45 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 2577603.58067034
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541 2011-08-30 10:21:38 <erus`> who wants to hear my python joke?
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594 2011-08-30 11:50:16 <fabiomiguel> I make php websites. Im accepting BTC
595 2011-08-30 11:50:18 Daniel0108 has joined
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598 2011-08-30 12:03:01 Meki333 has joined
599 2011-08-30 12:03:32 <Meki333> hi man I have a question
600 2011-08-30 12:03:41 wolfspraul has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
601 2011-08-30 12:05:07 <Meki333> I used guiminer v2011-08-24 and I have an error
602 2011-08-30 12:05:23 wolfspraul has joined
603 2011-08-30 12:08:42 <Meki333> If I mining on api2.bitcoin.cz then I have conestion error (all ports are opened) and when I mining on slush's pool then I have error 80190190
604 2011-08-30 12:08:54 denisx has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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607 2011-08-30 12:10:26 <_flow_> Has there ever been a discussion about support for discovering peers via zeroconf?
608 2011-08-30 12:11:38 zamgo_ has left ()
609 2011-08-30 12:15:03 <slush> Meki333: hi. What is error 80190190 ?
610 2011-08-30 12:15:24 <slush> Meki333: You don't need to open any port for pooled mining...
611 2011-08-30 12:15:45 d1g1t4l has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
612 2011-08-30 12:16:13 <Meki333> I dont know what is 80190190 error, but guiminre not work...
613 2011-08-30 12:16:33 <Meki333> guiminer*
614 2011-08-30 12:16:44 <slush> can you paste some error message here?
615 2011-08-30 12:17:22 MrTiggr is now known as MrTiggrAFK
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619 2011-08-30 12:19:16 <Meki333> 2011-08-30 14:10:08: Listener for "Default" started 2011-08-30 14:10:08: Listener for "Default": Traceback (most recent call last): 2011-08-30 14:10:08: Listener for "Default": File "poclbm.py", line 47, in <module> 2011-08-30 14:10:16: Listener for "test" shutting down
620 2011-08-30 12:19:21 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
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622 2011-08-30 12:19:50 <Meki333> and the 2 error is:
623 2011-08-30 12:20:33 TheAncientGoat has quit (Client Quit)
624 2011-08-30 12:21:02 <Meki333> 2011-08-30 14:10:20: Listener for "test" started 2011-08-30 14:10:21: Listener for "test": bitcoin-miner 0.13 Copyright (c) 2011 Ufasoft http://ufasoft.com/open/bitcoin 2011-08-30 14:10:21: Listener for "test": Mining for http://api2.bitcoin.cz:8332 2011-08-30 14:10:21: Listener for "test": 2 threads Using SSE2 2011-08-30 14:10:21: Listener for "test": Error 80190190
625 2011-08-30 12:21:32 <slush> This looks like some general miner error, not a network or pool error
626 2011-08-30 12:21:41 denisx has joined
627 2011-08-30 12:21:50 <slush> can you try another mining core, not SSE2, for example?
628 2011-08-30 12:21:54 <Meki333> hmm, any help here? :D:D
629 2011-08-30 12:22:23 <Meki333> I am new, I dont know much about this
630 2011-08-30 12:23:06 <slush> what computer do you have? Do you have some GPU?
631 2011-08-30 12:23:32 <Meki333> C2D, but old GPU, it is PC in my work :D
632 2011-08-30 12:23:40 <Meki333> GPU is 7600gt
633 2011-08-30 12:24:07 Gekz has joined
634 2011-08-30 12:24:13 <slush> hm, so you probably need CPU mining
635 2011-08-30 12:24:33 <slush> well, can you ask on miner forum? This really looks like some lowlevel error
636 2011-08-30 12:24:51 <Meki333> if guiminer use SSE2, then use CPUmining, isnt it?
637 2011-08-30 12:24:56 <slush> yes
638 2011-08-30 12:26:09 <molecular> I'm seeing some weird transactions: http://i.imgur.com/dMYSg.png <- anyone have an idea what these are? 0.01 BTC, like 20 of them
639 2011-08-30 12:26:51 <Meki333> I look on 2011-08-30 14:15:13: Running command: C:\download\miner\guiminer\miners\ufasoft\bitcoin-miner.exe -u username -p pass -o http://api2.bitcoin.cz:8332 and there is not my username and password... I dont need it for mining?
640 2011-08-30 12:27:15 <molecular> these addresses do not show in my address book
641 2011-08-30 12:27:37 <slush> Meki333: Then you need to fill correct username and password somewhere.
642 2011-08-30 12:28:05 EvanR has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
643 2011-08-30 12:28:14 <slush> I don't have windows and didn't see guiminer for long time, but must be a configuration tab for "test" listener somewhere
644 2011-08-30 12:29:35 <Meki333> Its my mistake, I dont write username and password on "test", but the error is still there...
645 2011-08-30 12:30:06 <slush> except username and password, the command line for miner looks fine
646 2011-08-30 12:30:36 <slush> so... please ask on forum, I don't know what happen here
647 2011-08-30 12:32:19 <Meki333> ok, thx... BTW do you know some cpuminer on windows?
648 2011-08-30 12:34:51 d1g1t4l has joined
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650 2011-08-30 12:47:45 MrTiggrAFK is now known as MrTiggr
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655 2011-08-30 12:49:36 <fabiomiguel> how to track transations?
656 2011-08-30 12:49:39 <fabiomiguel> with php?
657 2011-08-30 12:49:51 <fabiomiguel> i mean what i should use?
658 2011-08-30 12:51:05 <asher^> more detail...
659 2011-08-30 12:52:40 Akinava has joined
660 2011-08-30 12:58:43 <JFK911> use linux
661 2011-08-30 12:59:57 <kjj> all of the commands you can use on the command line are also RPC calls that your scripts can use
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679 2011-08-30 13:34:44 x11 is now known as x11_away
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681 2011-08-30 13:39:36 nemesis51 is now known as nemesis51|away
682 2011-08-30 13:45:30 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r421437c / (doc/run.md lib/peermanager.js man/run.1): Added new value "none" for --connect parameter. (+7 more commits...) - http://git.io/o3Xo2w
683 2011-08-30 13:55:48 <MobiusL> ;;bc,stats
684 2011-08-30 13:55:51 <gribble> Current Blocks: 143199 | Current Difficulty: 1777774.4820015 | Next Difficulty At Block: 145151 | Next Difficulty In: 1952 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 20 hours, 16 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 2257717.44736074
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690 2011-08-30 14:06:01 <vegard> ...eh
691 2011-08-30 14:06:08 <vegard> ;;bc,diff
692 2011-08-30 14:06:09 <gribble> 1777774.4820015
693 2011-08-30 14:06:15 <vegard> ;;bc,estimate
694 2011-08-30 14:06:16 <gribble> 2257717.44736074
695 2011-08-30 14:06:23 <vegard> that's quite a jump.
696 2011-08-30 14:07:02 <UukGoblin> vegard, early estimates are always very inaccurate
697 2011-08-30 14:07:41 <vegard> ;;bc,diffchange
698 2011-08-30 14:07:42 <gribble> 26.9968418503 % estimated difficulty change this period
699 2011-08-30 14:07:56 <vegard> but it's not an early estimate, is it? we've had 4 days
700 2011-08-30 14:08:09 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,stats
701 2011-08-30 14:08:12 <gribble> Current Blocks: 143199 | Current Difficulty: 1777774.4820015 | Next Difficulty At Block: 145151 | Next Difficulty In: 1952 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 20 hours, 16 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 2257717.44736074
702 2011-08-30 14:08:12 <vegard> hm. more like 3
703 2011-08-30 14:08:24 <vegard> thanks :)
704 2011-08-30 14:09:05 <UukGoblin> we've been on this diff for 64 blocks... that's like 10 hours
705 2011-08-30 14:09:33 <vegard> oh.
706 2011-08-30 14:09:49 <vegard> sorry.
707 2011-08-30 14:10:32 <UukGoblin> yeah the currentdiff is there since 6:15:03 GMT this morning (http://blockexplorer.com/b/143136)
708 2011-08-30 14:10:42 <UukGoblin> argh I mean 5:15:03 GMT
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710 2011-08-30 14:12:58 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
711 2011-08-30 14:13:51 <makomk> I think the estimated time till the next difficulty must be based on the incorrect estimate for the next difficulty...
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714 2011-08-30 14:19:31 <UukGoblin> makomk, yes, both are based on the amount of work done since the last difficulty update... and the nature of work is highly random on its own
715 2011-08-30 14:20:00 <UukGoblin> graphs at http://bitcoin.sipa.be/ help you see what's going on there
716 2011-08-30 14:20:24 <UukGoblin> on the total computation speed, the 1-day window estimate you can see is very "jumpy"
717 2011-08-30 14:20:42 <UukGoblin> and there's only really been a green line hop since the last difficulty update
718 2011-08-30 14:20:47 <UukGoblin> so it's way too early to tell
719 2011-08-30 14:22:34 <nanotube> ;;bc,spotestimate
720 2011-08-30 14:22:37 <gribble> 1673943.86925
721 2011-08-30 14:22:46 <nanotube> is based on the 3d average (as per the sipa charts)
722 2011-08-30 14:23:25 <UukGoblin> ah, much better then
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731 2011-08-30 14:45:09 <tcatm> gavinandresen: did you get my email about bitcoin.org?
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775 2011-08-30 16:01:38 Clipse-b is now known as Clipse
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779 2011-08-30 16:08:20 xelister has joined
780 2011-08-30 16:08:25 <xelister> FOREVER GOXXED ;_;
781 2011-08-30 16:08:35 TheAncientGoat has joined
782 2011-08-30 16:08:50 <xelister> Bitomat.pl re-Launch Delays [a.k.a they frozen our money for weeks AGAIN] https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20402146-bitomat-pl-re-launch-delays :{
783 2011-08-30 16:11:56 <BlueMatt> xelister: forever making a big deal out of each tiny misstep mtgox makes
784 2011-08-30 16:12:29 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
785 2011-08-30 16:12:55 <xelister> BlueMatt:~170,000 USD of customers remains frozen
786 2011-08-30 16:13:38 <BlueMatt> and?
787 2011-08-30 16:14:05 <BlueMatt> Im sorry, but complaining that they are delaying by a day to get shit right is just bullshit
788 2011-08-30 16:14:05 <xelister> and it sucks when someone freezes all your money?
789 2011-08-30 16:14:49 <xelister> not when someone stolen/lost my money and the deadline is when someone will the fuck give it back
790 2011-08-30 16:16:02 <BlueMatt> you are so full of shit
791 2011-08-30 16:16:22 <BlueMatt> originally, no one was getting anything back
792 2011-08-30 16:16:35 Folklore has quit ()
793 2011-08-30 16:16:45 <BlueMatt> shit takes time, and complaining that its going to slow is just fucking stupid
794 2011-08-30 16:17:08 TheDaniel0108 has joined
795 2011-08-30 16:17:46 <xelister> I don't care with orginally
796 2011-08-30 16:17:58 <xelister> since 2 weeks my account is on mtgox
797 2011-08-30 16:18:11 <BlueMatt> my point is: if it werent for mtgox you would have nothing, now you are getting something, so stop complaining
798 2011-08-30 16:18:15 <xelister> and once again it takes days longer to access money they promised I can access already
799 2011-08-30 16:18:30 Daniel0108 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
800 2011-08-30 16:18:32 TheDaniel0108 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
801 2011-08-30 16:18:33 <xelister> that is bullshit
802 2011-08-30 16:18:50 clr_ has joined
803 2011-08-30 16:18:56 clr_ is now known as c00w
804 2011-08-30 16:19:03 <BlueMatt> coding takes time, Im sorry that not everyone is a coding demigod who finishes large financial-quality coding and qa in an hour
805 2011-08-30 16:19:09 <xelister> if it werent for mtgox, the guy that stolen (or deleted) 170,000 usd would be already arrested probably
806 2011-08-30 16:19:21 <BlueMatt> funny
807 2011-08-30 16:19:25 Daniel0108 has joined
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809 2011-08-30 16:19:37 <xelister> he reached a deal with mtgox, so now mtgox is responsible. And they given a date. And it slips. So classic goxxing
810 2011-08-30 16:20:01 <xelister> BlueMatt: what is funny? few people already reported to police, and they don't find it funny that important amount of money was stolen
811 2011-08-30 16:20:36 <xelister> (yeah possibly civil suit, not "arrested")
812 2011-08-30 16:20:41 <BlueMatt> yes, the guy could probably go for criminal negligence, but you would still come out with nothing, so why do you care?
813 2011-08-30 16:20:45 twobitcoins has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
814 2011-08-30 16:20:50 <xelister> why nothing?
815 2011-08-30 16:20:58 <BlueMatt> after lawyer fees, you might make a dollar or two
816 2011-08-30 16:21:00 <xelister> 2-3 good cars
817 2011-08-30 16:21:17 <BlueMatt> 2-3 cheap toy cars maybe
818 2011-08-30 16:21:23 <xelister> hm?
819 2011-08-30 16:21:45 <xelister> with 1000+ people after you, probably including drug dealers etc
820 2011-08-30 16:22:01 <xelister> I think guy would realy do something to un-fuckup this
821 2011-08-30 16:22:11 <xelister> perhaps the wallet.dat would be magically found after all
822 2011-08-30 16:22:38 <BlueMatt> yea, split the (maybe) 50,000 you might get - 50% (at least) to lawyer and court costs, now split 25,000 among 1000+ people, hey 25$ each...wow
823 2011-08-30 16:22:50 Obsi has joined
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825 2011-08-30 16:22:50 Obsi has joined
826 2011-08-30 16:22:51 <xelister> (or the guys is an idiot that doesnt backup 170,000 USD but at same time he is capable of single-handed developing entire exchange site that otherwise was very good working)
827 2011-08-30 16:23:12 SomeoneWeird has quit (Quit: ByeBye.)
828 2011-08-30 16:23:14 <BlueMatt> developing a working (albeit probably not secure) site isnt hard
829 2011-08-30 16:23:22 <xelister> BlueMatt: in such case the person that lost/stolen/etc the money pays the lawyer charges, which btw are probably x10 lower in Poland then in USA
830 2011-08-30 16:24:19 <xelister> not backing up wallet.dat is most rookie of mistakes when making site hadling big amounts of BTC. So I find it hard to belive it was just accident. Well, time will tell :)
831 2011-08-30 16:24:23 c00w has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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833 2011-08-30 16:25:09 <BlueMatt> doesnt matter, as you pointed out, mtgox bought it, so they will refund money and nothing will come out of any kind of fees/court cases
834 2011-08-30 16:25:45 <xelister> yeap
835 2011-08-30 16:25:58 <xelister> since they bought it they are responsible
836 2011-08-30 16:26:07 <xelister> the money is still goxxed, therefore my orginal claim :)
837 2011-08-30 16:26:26 c00w has joined
838 2011-08-30 16:26:40 * BlueMatt facepalm
839 2011-08-30 16:26:42 <xelister> btw, BlueMatt, what the fuck with freezing ALL YOUR MONEY is just "tiny problem"? I had to borrow friend for his medical expenses since he had actually all money locked in btc at that monet heh
840 2011-08-30 16:27:04 <xelister> BlueMatt: you know what, you can prove your point
841 2011-08-30 16:27:09 <xelister> BlueMatt: transfer me 50 BTC
842 2011-08-30 16:27:15 <xelister> I will pay it back in 48 hours
843 2011-08-30 16:27:18 <BlueMatt> well if you stored enough money on bitomat to have a huge problem here, then you are just a fucking idiot
844 2011-08-30 16:27:21 <xelister> ( or a little longer.... problem, customer? :}}
845 2011-08-30 16:28:23 <BlueMatt> again: Im sorry coding doesnt happen as fast as you wish it would, and Im sorry that mtgox is being careful and making sure the code works properly and is secure, and Im also very sorry that you dont seem to understand any of that
846 2011-08-30 16:28:36 <xelister> BlueMatt: people trusting btc institutions as much as "reall currency" ones, are idiots now?
847 2011-08-30 16:29:09 <BlueMatt> to some extent, yes
848 2011-08-30 16:29:27 <BlueMatt> especially random sites that "work well" but really arent backed by anything
849 2011-08-30 16:29:29 <xelister> I think it was a in fact uncarefull. But hopefully one day BTC will be fully trustworthy! And all cases of goxxing make this day come late.
850 2011-08-30 16:30:04 * BlueMatt facepalms and goes off to work instead of wasting time arguing with someone who is just trolling for his own self-gain
851 2011-08-30 16:32:02 newbie1 has joined
852 2011-08-30 16:32:07 <xelister> yeah wishing for end of constant delays in getting OUR MONEY is trolling.... we should just use banks and usd like normal people
853 2011-08-30 16:33:33 <b4epoche> you should be glad you're even getting your money
854 2011-08-30 16:34:25 <xelister> funny, thought purpose of bitcoin is to stop arrogant banking dickheads
855 2011-08-30 16:34:45 <xelister> (or one of purposes)
856 2011-08-30 16:34:59 <BlueMatt> hahahaha
857 2011-08-30 16:35:14 <xelister> "you should be glad you're even getting your money" -- paypal
858 2011-08-30 16:35:23 <b4epoche> you give your money to people that store it in volatile media, you shouldn't expect much
859 2011-08-30 16:35:23 <BlueMatt> and you wonder why I called you an idiot
860 2011-08-30 16:35:53 <xelister> BlueMatt: say what now? bitcoin is not supposed to fix problems with paypal and other crap?
861 2011-08-30 16:36:11 <iddo> xelister: aren't you chatting in the wrong channel? why did you choose to bring up bitomat.pl in #bitcoin-dev instead of #mtgox or #bitcoin etc.?
862 2011-08-30 16:36:11 newbie1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
863 2011-08-30 16:36:17 <xelister> perhaps not for you, but it seems many people promote it, and use it, like alternative to PP.
864 2011-08-30 16:36:50 newbie1 has joined
865 2011-08-30 16:37:11 <xelister> iddo: this was the channel for all talk, if you don't recall
866 2011-08-30 16:37:21 ThomasV has joined
867 2011-08-30 16:37:24 ThomasV has quit (Changing host)
868 2011-08-30 16:37:24 ThomasV has joined
869 2011-08-30 16:37:35 <iddo> hmm #bitcoin didn't use to exist?
870 2011-08-30 16:37:51 <xelister> in older days it was bootstrapping channel
871 2011-08-30 16:38:10 <iddo> #bitcoin you mean?
872 2011-08-30 16:38:33 <xelister> yeap, and -dev was basically for all talk
873 2011-08-30 16:38:35 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
874 2011-08-30 16:38:46 <iddo> ok i didnt know
875 2011-08-30 16:38:55 <xelister> even today it retains the best users
876 2011-08-30 16:38:57 <xelister> like me
877 2011-08-30 16:39:00 <xelister> BlueMatt just left
878 2011-08-30 16:39:08 <xelister> unfortunatlly artz is missing
879 2011-08-30 16:39:50 <xelister> well I would say b4epoche,
880 2011-08-30 16:39:56 <xelister> <b4epoche> you should be glad you're even getting your money
881 2011-08-30 16:40:00 <xelister> b4epoche: fuck you with a cactus
882 2011-08-30 16:40:22 <xelister> this "you should be glad you're even getting your money" is what fucking paypal is seying. and why they suck
883 2011-08-30 16:40:42 <iddo> i'm not even sure whether it's legal for bitomat.pl to declare that they confiscated your money
884 2011-08-30 16:40:52 <xelister> iddo: yeah it is not
885 2011-08-30 16:41:04 <b4epoche> wow, I thought the US was the only place entitled assholes lived
886 2011-08-30 16:41:06 <xelister> now it was "sold" to mtgox (not legal, btw) and now mtgox is goxxing our 170,000 usd
887 2011-08-30 16:41:10 <iddo> i'm pretty sure that mybitcoins can legally declare that they confiscate your bitcoins
888 2011-08-30 16:41:24 <copumpkin> <xelister> b4epoche: fuck you with a cactus
889 2011-08-30 16:41:27 <copumpkin> I like that expression
890 2011-08-30 16:41:36 <iddo> same as e.g. dropbox or gmail can declare that they confiscate your data
891 2011-08-30 16:41:40 <lookdang> xelister :P
892 2011-08-30 16:41:47 <lookdang> how ya going?
893 2011-08-30 16:42:03 <b4epoche> he's in rare form
894 2011-08-30 16:42:22 erus` has joined
895 2011-08-30 16:42:27 <iddo> but paypal cannot declare than they confiscate your dollars, because they have to abide by financial regulation laws
896 2011-08-30 16:42:42 <xelister> iddo: PP is notorious for freezing peoples money
897 2011-08-30 16:42:56 <xelister> at least that's what everyone is saying
898 2011-08-30 16:42:59 * lookdang pokes xelister
899 2011-08-30 16:43:00 <xelister> who uses PP
900 2011-08-30 16:43:06 * xelister pokes lookdang back
901 2011-08-30 16:43:10 <lookdang> :)
902 2011-08-30 16:43:22 <iddo> still, PP cannot just confiscate without a plausable reason, unlike mybitcoins
903 2011-08-30 16:43:24 <b4epoche> are you guys poking with your cacti?
904 2011-08-30 16:43:43 <xelister> iddo: yeah
905 2011-08-30 16:43:44 <lookdang> *getting kinky down in the -dev*
906 2011-08-30 16:43:50 <xelister> what I ment, is that this really sucks
907 2011-08-30 16:43:53 <xelister> and that I hate goxxing
908 2011-08-30 16:43:58 <lookdang> xelister, how is the btcfn project going?
909 2011-08-30 16:44:16 <xelister> like I hate mtgox goxxing 170,000 usd of polish users. and then BlueMatt says Im too picky and I should not care. wtf? anyone? :)
910 2011-08-30 16:44:27 <iddo> i guess mtgox and bitomat.pl also cannot just confiscate, because half of every trade is fiat money
911 2011-08-30 16:44:32 <xelister> lookdang: 2 weeks away
912 2011-08-30 16:44:39 <lookdang> woooot!
913 2011-08-30 16:44:40 <lookdang> :)
914 2011-08-30 16:44:53 <xelister> at least from some beta
915 2011-08-30 16:44:59 <iddo> xelister: maybe you could sue bitomat.pl ?
916 2011-08-30 16:45:05 <xelister> I hope fn stabilizes too
917 2011-08-30 16:45:05 <lookdang> making an announcement one stone
918 2011-08-30 16:45:14 <lookdang> or freetalk
919 2011-08-30 16:45:29 <xelister> lookdang: ok ;) btw good way to demask yourself but thanks:) anyway people should use multiids for anonnets
920 2011-08-30 16:45:45 <b4epoche> xelister: 2 weeks you say⦠let me take note of that
921 2011-08-30 16:45:51 <xelister> I almost give up on freetalk for now.. untill someone fixes speed of it
922 2011-08-30 16:46:08 <b4epoche> oh wait, no one really cares about what you're doing so no one will care when it's delayed
923 2011-08-30 16:46:35 <xelister> b4epoche: if so then what is your point?
924 2011-08-30 16:46:52 <lookdang> I have all the funds... I'll even find my pgp keys to pay the bounty.
925 2011-08-30 16:46:52 <xelister> I think delaying and freezing our money fucking sucks cocks
926 2011-08-30 16:47:00 <xelister> and mtgox is now totally notorious for doing that
927 2011-08-30 16:47:17 copumpkin is now known as quicksilwer
928 2011-08-30 16:47:20 <xelister> they are not giving away money for free to polse, they made a DEAL with 3rd bigger exchange!
929 2011-08-30 16:47:24 <iddo> xelister: why don't you sue bitomat.pl ?
930 2011-08-30 16:47:34 <xelister> iddo: some people did. Perhaps me too, perhaps not
931 2011-08-30 16:48:04 <b4epoche> it's amazing to me that you are so hostile to someone being so generous to you⦠bitomat had /no/ real value to MtGox
932 2011-08-30 16:48:36 quicksilwer is now known as copumpkin
933 2011-08-30 16:48:46 <xelister> if it had no value then they are making bad busienss decissions, their problem
934 2011-08-30 16:48:50 <xelister> b4epoche: ^
935 2011-08-30 16:48:52 <iddo> xelister: but if the person who ran bitomat.pl doesn't have money, what would the lawsuit accomplish? there wasn't gov insurance, unlike fiat money in a bank
936 2011-08-30 16:49:14 <xelister> but I think it was a good decission to take over 3rd largest exchange just using few months worth of profit
937 2011-08-30 16:49:33 <xelister> and for pr
938 2011-08-30 16:49:33 <b4epoche> it was a bad business decision, and it especially seems so know that people are bitching
939 2011-08-30 16:50:09 <b4epoche> I hope your money gets 'lost' in the transfer ;-)
940 2011-08-30 16:52:14 <iddo> xelister: do you think you are entitled to get your money back? or that mtgox is being generous?
941 2011-08-30 16:52:30 <xelister> b4epoche: that is so nice of you. I hope you choke on dick and die ^_^
942 2011-08-30 16:52:58 <xelister> iddo: mtgox said it bought bitomat.pl, bitomat.pl said mtgox bought them - so now whey are responsible. or who is?
943 2011-08-30 16:53:40 <iddo> xelister: do you think you are entitled to get your money back from anyone? or that whoever returns your money is being generous?
944 2011-08-30 16:54:06 <b4epoche> generously took over the mess they created seems like a more appropriate description
945 2011-08-30 16:54:13 <xelister> ok I missread iddo
946 2011-08-30 16:54:26 <xelister> I think it is a business
947 2011-08-30 16:54:43 <xelister> if my bank X is falling, and bank Y takes over it
948 2011-08-30 16:54:56 <xelister> I demand from Y
949 2011-08-30 16:54:57 <iddo> you're saying that whoever returns you your money is doing it out of his own self-interest?
950 2011-08-30 16:54:58 <xelister> it is not charity
951 2011-08-30 16:55:17 <lianj> its not a real business
952 2011-08-30 16:55:20 <xelister> mtgox making ~100,000 usd (monthly?) is not some guy that donates
953 2011-08-30 16:55:38 mosimo has joined
954 2011-08-30 16:55:58 <xelister> lianj: making 100,000 usd per month is not a real business? sir? u mad?
955 2011-08-30 16:56:33 <xelister> if it would be say opensource developer taking over some old project, and then delivering 6 months late, then yea I would be just a bit mad because THAT would be charity.
956 2011-08-30 16:56:34 <b4epoche> you have a citation for that number?
957 2011-08-30 16:56:38 <iddo> xelister: banks that deal with fiat money are insured by gov, so everyone gets his money back or they all fall together via hyperinflation, that's not the case with bitomat and mtgox
958 2011-08-30 16:57:12 <xelister> b4epoche: http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/ -> 11 milion usd monthly volume. *1% comission (0.65% on both sides = ~1%)
959 2011-08-30 16:57:13 <kjj> ok, just stop. when someone says they are "buying" a business, that doesn't really tell you about the underlying details
960 2011-08-30 16:57:45 * b4epoche thinks that if xelister was in MagicalTux's position he would have let bitomat users lose their money
961 2011-08-30 16:57:45 fabiomiguel has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
962 2011-08-30 16:58:09 <iddo> xelister: you still didnt answer: entitled / generosity / self-interest ? which one is it?
963 2011-08-30 16:58:24 <xelister> iddo: hmm possibly.. but what this changes? ok if shop X sells me TV but it doesnt arrive and then shop Y takes over it, I will balme Y if it still is arriving late
964 2011-08-30 16:58:27 huk has joined
965 2011-08-30 16:58:50 <xelister> especially when Y gives a date of servicing X customers
966 2011-08-30 16:59:01 <xelister> hey I just said I am goxxed again. that is all. :)
967 2011-08-30 16:59:31 <iddo> xelister: if shop X goes bankrupt, you don't get your TV
968 2011-08-30 16:59:46 <xelister> yea
969 2011-08-30 17:00:07 <iddo> it's called counterparty risk
970 2011-08-30 17:00:11 <kjj> dude. your bitcoins are fucking gone. as in, they do not exist any more. somsone is planning to give you new coins, and you are bitching that it is taking too long?
971 2011-08-30 17:00:14 <xelister> so would you blame Y or not if your TV is not arriving after takeover?
972 2011-08-30 17:00:31 <xelister> yeah why are you all such pussies as customers
973 2011-08-30 17:01:16 <xelister> if my TV is not arriving because it burned in horrible accident in shop X, I still want my TV from Y that bought up X, even if Y's CEO has to sit long time at nights with 1000 chinese orphants to make them by own bare hands =)
974 2011-08-30 17:01:46 <xelister> all this cases of "sorry I accidentially your bitcoin.... so long :}" really suck.
975 2011-08-30 17:02:01 <xelister> how is anyone going to then view btc as a serious business
976 2011-08-30 17:02:14 <iddo> yes i would blame Y in that scenario, but the question that you refuse to answer is whether it was generous of mtgox (Y in your scenario) to take X, or you think you are entitled to your money
977 2011-08-30 17:02:25 <iddo> s/take/take over
978 2011-08-30 17:02:44 <xelister> I do not think it was
979 2011-08-30 17:02:50 <xelister> well it depends on details
980 2011-08-30 17:02:58 <xelister> but would you view Y as generous here?
981 2011-08-30 17:03:00 <lianj> xelister: if X had written in tiny letters that they cant be blamed with loss, Y cant be blamed either ;)
982 2011-08-30 17:03:02 <xelister> if Y is a company not a person
983 2011-08-30 17:03:09 <iddo> you don't think mtgox is being generous?
984 2011-08-30 17:03:25 <xelister> how do you define generous
985 2011-08-30 17:03:43 <xelister> I think they did it for marketing, and taking over 3rd largest competition. Which is a smart move.
986 2011-08-30 17:03:44 <iddo> xelister: with your TV scenario with Y and X, it depends on whether it's profitable of Y to take over X
987 2011-08-30 17:04:08 <xelister> if mtgox wants to do soemthing unproffitable they can sponsor an orphanage
988 2011-08-30 17:04:30 <xelister> or donate 0.5 mln$ for some linux distro or TOR etc etc
989 2011-08-30 17:04:31 <iddo> ok fine so you think mtgox was acting in its own self-interest, rather than being generous
990 2011-08-30 17:04:39 <xelister> yeap
991 2011-08-30 17:04:49 <xelister> if it would be doing it against own interst then it would be stupid
992 2011-08-30 17:05:01 <xelister> and actually inestors would sue (if it would be company with investors)
993 2011-08-30 17:05:11 <xelister> or hidden investors (e.g. buddies) would
994 2011-08-30 17:05:35 <iddo> xelister: suppose for sake of argument that mtgox didnt decide to do it, do you think you're entitled to get your bitomat.pl money back?
995 2011-08-30 17:06:02 <xelister> generously it is when I donate say money to Freenet development
996 2011-08-30 17:06:13 <xelister> its anonymous
997 2011-08-30 17:06:16 <xelister> I will never profit from it
998 2011-08-30 17:06:49 <xelister> well perfectly generous it would be to donate to some orhpanage far far away, then one would really not profit from it ever even in a remote way.
999 2011-08-30 17:06:52 <xelister> :)
1000 2011-08-30 17:07:17 <iddo> ok we established that you disagree with the idea that mtgox is being generous
1001 2011-08-30 17:07:21 <kjj> you don't see any benefit to yourself by living in a world with less orphans?
1002 2011-08-30 17:07:23 <xelister> iddo: companies do not "donate", they invest
1003 2011-08-30 17:07:42 <xelister> yea generously it would be if owner/investor of mtgox would take out some money
1004 2011-08-30 17:07:48 <xelister> pay some tax on income
1005 2011-08-30 17:07:55 <xelister> and then donate to say that dude that burned bitomat.pl
1006 2011-08-30 17:08:08 <iddo> xelister: suppose for sake of argument that mtgox didnt decide to do it, do you think you're entitled to get your bitomat.pl money back?
1007 2011-08-30 17:08:15 <UukGoblin> that's not -dev at all, is it? ;-]
1008 2011-08-30 17:08:42 <UukGoblin> imho, donating money to orphanages doesn't help reduce overpopulation at all
1009 2011-08-30 17:08:49 <xelister> even then... when bill gates donates to that vaccine something in affrica, you think it is what? I guess it is PR. Didnt they setup an organization in Gate's name
1010 2011-08-30 17:09:22 <xelister> UukGoblin: yeap, it was general "to orphanage" example. Best would be to donate money in a way so it really gets used correctly (not sure which way is best)
1011 2011-08-30 17:09:37 <iddo> xelister: why don't you answer this question?
1012 2011-08-30 17:09:38 <xelister> iddo: from bitomat.pl? sure
1013 2011-08-30 17:09:46 <xelister> iddo: or rather, from it's owner
1014 2011-08-30 17:10:01 <xelister> so sure mtgox action probably makes this easier
1015 2011-08-30 17:10:11 <xelister> still it is not neseserly donation or anything
1016 2011-08-30 17:10:18 <iddo> xelister: what if it was mybitcoins instead of bitomat ? still feel entitled?
1017 2011-08-30 17:10:22 <xelister> Sony makes it easier for you to get a 3D TV so what
1018 2011-08-30 17:10:51 <xelister> iddo: hm? if mybitcoin ate people's money? yea they are entitled to get it back
1019 2011-08-30 17:11:22 <iddo> xelister: with mybitcoins you shouldn't say "money", just say bitcoins
1020 2011-08-30 17:11:30 <xelister> yeap bitcoin
1021 2011-08-30 17:11:46 <luke-jr> jgarzik: O.o
1022 2011-08-30 17:11:47 <iddo> xelister: i disagree with you
1023 2011-08-30 17:12:05 <xelister> iddo: so what do you think
1024 2011-08-30 17:12:08 <jgarzik> luke-jr: ?
1025 2011-08-30 17:12:27 <iddo> if mybitcoins ate you bitcoins, you're not entitled to get them back
1026 2011-08-30 17:12:41 <xelister> iddo: uh.. why so?
1027 2011-08-30 17:12:56 soap has joined
1028 2011-08-30 17:12:59 <erus`> what came first
1029 2011-08-30 17:13:05 <erus`> the bitcoin or the miner?
1030 2011-08-30 17:13:44 pigeons has joined
1031 2011-08-30 17:13:58 <iddo> with mybitcoins, it's simply a case of you giving control over your private property (bitcoins) to someone else, while he was promising you whatever if was promising, and then he reneged on his promise... you didn't sign a contract with him
1032 2011-08-30 17:14:36 <xelister> iddo: signed contract?
1033 2011-08-30 17:14:49 <erus`> you can get the cyber police to backtrace the money
1034 2011-08-30 17:14:56 <xelister> iddo: if you give me your camera to take your picture on vacation.. and then I run away with it instead is it ok? no contract ;)
1035 2011-08-30 17:16:12 <iddo> so you will call the police in order to get your camera back?
1036 2011-08-30 17:17:09 d1g1t4l has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1037 2011-08-30 17:17:19 <xelister> yea I should
1038 2011-08-30 17:17:26 <xelister> would you?
1039 2011-08-30 17:17:43 <iddo> why don't you assume responsibilty for your own actions (trusting the person whom you gave the camera to), instead of involving police whose resources are funded by all tax payers
1040 2011-08-30 17:18:00 <xelister> ??????? :o ?????
1041 2011-08-30 17:18:12 <luke-jr> jgarzik: still waiting on those 2 pull reqs? :P
1042 2011-08-30 17:18:15 <iddo> if that person stole your camera, then i agree that you should involve the police
1043 2011-08-30 17:18:21 <xelister> because it is police job to take back stolen property?
1044 2011-08-30 17:18:30 AlonzoTG has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1045 2011-08-30 17:18:31 <luke-jr> xelister: if you weren't such a troll, I might have seriously considered loaning you 50 BTC for a few days :P
1046 2011-08-30 17:18:33 <xelister> well what was stealing
1047 2011-08-30 17:18:36 <iddo> xelister: but you gave him the camera
1048 2011-08-30 17:18:39 The_SLain_MAn has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1049 2011-08-30 17:18:55 <xelister> luke-jr: even if you where not troll, you can get at most 1 btc from me =)
1050 2011-08-30 17:19:07 <luke-jr> iddo: verbal agreement is legally binding
1051 2011-08-30 17:19:18 <xelister> actually luke-jr is right in this case ^
1052 2011-08-30 17:19:28 m00p has joined
1053 2011-08-30 17:19:41 <xelister> ofc depends on legal system, but by most legal systems. also it is "morally" the right thing
1054 2011-08-30 17:20:05 <iddo> xelister: what is the scenario exactly? you gave him the camera and made it clear he should give it bank, and he agreed, and afterwards he changed his mind?
1055 2011-08-30 17:20:13 <iddo> s/bank/back
1056 2011-08-30 17:20:21 robotarmy has joined
1057 2011-08-30 17:20:24 asher^ has quit ()
1058 2011-08-30 17:20:39 <xelister> you are on vacation, and you ask a stranger - hey can you make me a picture with my camer
1059 2011-08-30 17:20:40 <xelister> -a
1060 2011-08-30 17:21:15 <luke-jr> xelister: in that case, you chase after him and make an arrest yourself
1061 2011-08-30 17:21:17 <iddo> ok interesting scenario
1062 2011-08-30 17:21:27 <lianj> if you do valet parking and give the keys to a scammer instead, insureance wont cover you loss
1063 2011-08-30 17:21:32 <xelister> luke-jr: yeah, but he is faster and stronger
1064 2011-08-30 17:21:41 <luke-jr> xelister: that's what your gun is for
1065 2011-08-30 17:21:42 <xelister> or you are average american, fat and a pussy :P
1066 2011-08-30 17:21:53 <iddo> xelister: why did you trust him with your camera ?
1067 2011-08-30 17:22:04 <xelister> luke-jr: you would shoot a guy that stolen you photo camera? in a crowded vacation spot? lol you troll you :)
1068 2011-08-30 17:22:20 <xelister> luke-jr: also you are arrested for heaving illegal weapon since it was in eu =)
1069 2011-08-30 17:22:21 <luke-jr> xelister: :P
1070 2011-08-30 17:22:24 <luke-jr> iddo: pretty standard
1071 2011-08-30 17:22:30 <luke-jr> xelister: sorry EU is so backward
1072 2011-08-30 17:22:38 <xelister> USA
1073 2011-08-30 17:22:53 <xelister> ah dont get me started lol
1074 2011-08-30 17:23:19 <xelister> USA: heaving a means to murder someone is ok, but any erotica is wrrronnng. "hey son don't watch this topless wemen, instead watch this people murdering eachother" ;)
1075 2011-08-30 17:23:24 <xelister> but that is ot.
1076 2011-08-30 17:24:04 <iddo> i remember forum thread about roommate who stole camera, posted picture and tried to shame her into giving it back, but even there they didn't involve the police i think
1077 2011-08-30 17:24:11 <xelister> iddo: it is standard to ask someone to snap your photo with your camera on vacation, and lets assume you don't have the means to get it back yourself, then yeayou should ask police or something
1078 2011-08-30 17:24:15 <luke-jr> xelister: yes, let's outlaw any tool can be abused for murder
1079 2011-08-30 17:24:28 <luke-jr> xelister: nevermind the fact that a murderer won't be obeying that law in the first place
1080 2011-08-30 17:24:51 <luke-jr> therefore, you leave only criminals with guns
1081 2011-08-30 17:24:51 <xelister> luke-jr: actually I think the "erotica is worse then murder" part is what is fucked up with usa
1082 2011-08-30 17:24:58 <xelister> yea I know
1083 2011-08-30 17:25:08 <xelister> guns should be legal, also nercotics and erotica
1084 2011-08-30 17:25:10 <luke-jr> xelister: nobody said "erotica" is worse than murder. they are both evil
1085 2011-08-30 17:25:15 <xelister> prohibitions just gives opposite effect
1086 2011-08-30 17:25:16 <nanotube> why is this conversation on -dev?
1087 2011-08-30 17:25:20 <iddo> xelister: you use the word standard to mean you're entitled to legal protection? why not just admit that you trusted the wrong person and take the loss
1088 2011-08-30 17:25:27 <xelister> nanotube: because we hope you will join o/
1089 2011-08-30 17:25:29 <luke-jr> nanotube: cuz jgarzik is taking a long time to answer about my pull reqs? :p
1090 2011-08-30 17:25:32 <nanotube> xelister: lol
1091 2011-08-30 17:25:33 <xelister> nanotube: also Im too cool for bitcoin
1092 2011-08-30 17:25:36 <xelister> #bitcoin
1093 2011-08-30 17:25:44 <jgarzik> luke-jr: I'll get to those today
1094 2011-08-30 17:25:56 <luke-jr> jgarzik: thanks
1095 2011-08-30 17:25:58 <xelister> yea also we should trollin jgarzik usafag :P
1096 2011-08-30 17:26:05 <xelister> luke-jr: you should echo all my texts while he is still ignoring me
1097 2011-08-30 17:26:19 <xelister> no but seriously the bitomat.pl IS ontopic.
1098 2011-08-30 17:26:24 <luke-jr> xelister: hah, jgarzik is ignoring you? maybe a good ideaâ¦
1099 2011-08-30 17:26:28 <luke-jr> no it isn't
1100 2011-08-30 17:26:37 <luke-jr> this is -dev, not -police or -markettalk
1101 2011-08-30 17:26:41 <nanotube> it is ontopic for #mtgox maybe, but certainly not for -dev
1102 2011-08-30 17:26:46 <nanotube> or -police heh yea
1103 2011-08-30 17:26:47 <xelister> so in summary I blame mtgox for goxxing bitomat.pl former users (that mtgox bought up)... opinions?
1104 2011-08-30 17:26:50 <luke-jr> yeah, #mtgox makes the best sense
1105 2011-08-30 17:27:03 <iddo> #mtgox-chat maybe:)
1106 2011-08-30 17:27:15 <luke-jr> xelister: my opinion is that a few days delay is not a problem or liability
1107 2011-08-30 17:27:25 <luke-jr> they had no obligation to give you an ETA in the first place
1108 2011-08-30 17:27:28 <xelister> I just claim that
1109 2011-08-30 17:27:35 <xelister> I'm goxxed aagaaaaaaaaain ;_;
1110 2011-08-30 17:27:37 <xelister> :)
1111 2011-08-30 17:27:50 <xelister> (actually, more my friend. I dont trust exchanges nowdays)
1112 2011-08-30 17:27:58 <luke-jr> and it isn't "locking funds"-- that implies they are intentionally obstructing your access until further notice
1113 2011-08-30 17:28:13 <xelister> luke-jr: didn't said it is intentionall
1114 2011-08-30 17:28:19 <xelister> orginall goxxing also was not
1115 2011-08-30 17:28:20 <luke-jr> that's what it means
1116 2011-08-30 17:28:27 <luke-jr> goxxing is not a word
1117 2011-08-30 17:28:36 <xelister> it is now =)
1118 2011-08-30 17:28:39 <luke-jr> it has recently been invented as one meaning "got hacked"
1119 2011-08-30 17:28:44 <luke-jr> which definitely is false here
1120 2011-08-30 17:28:47 <xelister> "locking" means intentionall?
1121 2011-08-30 17:28:55 <luke-jr> yes
1122 2011-08-30 17:28:57 <xelister> if you get a condition of dick locking in a vagina, is it too?
1123 2011-08-30 17:29:09 <xelister> it's actuall medical condition btw =)
1124 2011-08-30 17:29:45 <xelister> in any case, lets say my funds are inaccessible at mtgox. AGAIN. wish this would end =)
1125 2011-08-30 17:29:55 <luke-jr> obviously words have different meanings in different contexts
1126 2011-08-30 17:30:44 * xelister btw hands luke-jr wikipedia article on lock-in medical condition (brain locks controll of body, e.g. besides eyes)
1127 2011-08-30 17:31:23 <xelister> what was the bug bug making < .3.24 insecure?
1128 2011-08-30 17:31:27 <xelister> *big bug
1129 2011-08-30 17:31:45 <luke-jr> xelister: that's bs to make people upgrade I think
1130 2011-08-30 17:31:57 <nanotube> iirc, it was just problems with blockchain propagation
1131 2011-08-30 17:32:00 <luke-jr> xelister: the real problem is that it doesn't transmit blocks right or something
1132 2011-08-30 17:32:41 <nanotube> (i.e., due to larger block size, older clients dropped connections due to larger request size or some such)
1133 2011-08-30 17:33:11 <xelister> is finally initiall download fast?
1134 2011-08-30 17:33:27 <luke-jr> doubt it :P
1135 2011-08-30 17:33:36 <xelister> trololo
1136 2011-08-30 17:33:58 <nanotube> yes it is - if you grab the blockchain snapshot off somewhere :)
1137 2011-08-30 17:34:03 octarine has joined
1138 2011-08-30 17:34:05 <xelister> <satoshi> - if (recent_blocks > 65536) return;
1139 2011-08-30 17:34:06 octarine has left ()
1140 2011-08-30 17:34:07 Lopuz has joined
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1142 2011-08-30 17:34:10 <xelister> <satoshi> + if (recent_blocks > 512) return;
1143 2011-08-30 17:34:15 <xelister> <satoshi> // problem, users?
1144 2011-08-30 17:34:23 <nanotube> heh
1145 2011-08-30 17:34:40 <xelister> <satoshi> // I guess everyone will find it's a scam before block 100k anyway
1146 2011-08-30 17:35:22 <luke-jr> xelister: https://bitly.com/rmzI3S
1147 2011-08-30 17:35:33 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1149 2011-08-30 17:35:43 <xelister> saved by flashblock.
1150 2011-08-30 17:36:20 <xelister> speaking of slow, also the startup is slow
1151 2011-08-30 17:36:23 <xelister> 2 minutes typically
1152 2011-08-30 17:36:47 <xelister> obviously it is slowly reading&parsing entire chain on start
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1158 2011-08-30 17:46:03 <ThomasV> how is it possible to contribute negative hashrate to the network ? http://solidcoin.kicks-ass.org/graphs/graphs.html
1159 2011-08-30 17:46:32 marf_away has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1160 2011-08-30 17:46:36 <lfm> ThomasV: um nope
1161 2011-08-30 17:46:40 <ThomasV> this must be a secret weapon
1162 2011-08-30 17:46:58 <copumpkin> This reflects the HashRate as reported by pools through their APIs or html pages.
1163 2011-08-30 17:47:00 <lfm> maybe with a time machine
1164 2011-08-30 17:47:08 <copumpkin> The unknown hashrate is determined by subtracting the sum of the pool-reported rates from the traditionally calculated block-based hashrate (see Notes in Hashrate Chart)
1165 2011-08-30 17:47:12 <copumpkin> there you go
1166 2011-08-30 17:47:30 <copumpkin> clearly one or more pools is overestimating their contribution
1167 2011-08-30 17:47:35 <luke-jr> therefore, pools report a total combined hashrate greater than the total network estimate :P
1168 2011-08-30 17:47:38 <ThomasV> so the pools are lying ?
1169 2011-08-30 17:47:44 <copumpkin> or just miscalculating
1170 2011-08-30 17:47:54 <luke-jr> there is no exact hashrate calculator
1171 2011-08-30 17:48:00 <ThomasV> I see
1172 2011-08-30 17:48:09 <lfm> copumpkin: or people are sending shares and holding back blocks to pools
1173 2011-08-30 17:48:35 <lfm> none of which is really negative hashrate
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1176 2011-08-30 17:57:28 <ThomasV> tcatm: it would be nice to have a pie chart for the traded volume on exchanges in your list
1177 2011-08-30 17:57:47 <ThomasV> eg. to visualize mtgox's share
1178 2011-08-30 17:58:16 <ThomasV> it would probably need to be averaged on several days
1179 2011-08-30 17:58:25 manifold_ has joined
1180 2011-08-30 17:59:30 <luke-jr> 7-day rolling window?
1181 2011-08-30 18:00:14 <ThomasV> yes, something like that. single day is not meaningful
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1183 2011-08-30 18:02:36 <ThomasV> the volume has been steadily increasing on exchanges using other currencies, such as btcchina.com or virtexcad
1184 2011-08-30 18:02:50 <ThomasV> and virwox too
1185 2011-08-30 18:03:05 <ciscoftw> problem with "http://svn.json-rpc.org/trunk/python-jsonrpc", suggestion(s) to access/install?
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1189 2011-08-30 18:06:09 <luke-jr> ciscoftw: bitcoinrpc
1190 2011-08-30 18:06:16 <luke-jr> ciscoftw: is API-compatible mostly
1191 2011-08-30 18:06:45 <ciscoftw> im going to be using rpc to talk to my headend machine, running the bt client/server...
1192 2011-08-30 18:07:09 <ciscoftw> but i need to get python's json-rpc installed
1193 2011-08-30 18:07:24 <jtaylor> for what?
1194 2011-08-30 18:07:32 <luke-jr> ciscoftw: bitcoinrpc is API-compatible mostly
1195 2011-08-30 18:07:51 <ciscoftw> so why would i want to use json-rpc, if i can use API's???
1196 2011-08-30 18:08:11 Guest4246 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1197 2011-08-30 18:08:25 <luke-jr> â¦
1198 2011-08-30 18:08:31 clr_ has joined
1199 2011-08-30 18:08:45 Guest4246 has joined
1200 2011-08-30 18:08:50 <luke-jr> apparently you don't know how to write software, or don't know English.
1201 2011-08-30 18:08:57 <ciscoftw> this is how i had it working a few weeks ago, perhaps there's a better way
1202 2011-08-30 18:09:04 <ciscoftw> dude... wow. i'm a gd user, not a dev
1203 2011-08-30 18:09:45 <luke-jr> RPC is a dev thing
1204 2011-08-30 18:09:50 <ciscoftw> i was asking "why would you use rpc, if you could use an API"
1205 2011-08-30 18:09:56 <ciscoftw> RPC is a protocol
1206 2011-08-30 18:10:12 <ciscoftw> used for alot of things that want to leverage tcp
1207 2011-08-30 18:10:25 <ciscoftw> ...maybe i could be a dev
1208 2011-08-30 18:10:35 <luke-jr> and interfacing with RPC requires an API
1209 2011-08-30 18:10:36 <luke-jr> duh
1210 2011-08-30 18:10:50 <ciscoftw> si si
1211 2011-08-30 18:11:45 <ciscoftw> so any suggestions to install from svn if i cant access the url?
1212 2011-08-30 18:12:05 <lfm> ciscoftw: um, rpc IS an api
1213 2011-08-30 18:12:35 <jtaylor> ciscoftw: its on git now so far I know
1214 2011-08-30 18:12:36 <jtaylor> google it
1215 2011-08-30 18:12:40 <jtaylor> github probably
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1217 2011-08-30 18:13:10 <ciscoftw> have to dl the source, or can i svn from github?
1218 2011-08-30 18:13:32 <lfm> ciscoftw: um svn is the source
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1220 2011-08-30 18:13:48 <jtaylor> yes you actually can svn from github :)
1221 2011-08-30 18:13:55 <jtaylor> but git is the prefered interface
1222 2011-08-30 18:14:01 Guest4246 has joined
1223 2011-08-30 18:14:15 <ciscoftw> so you would use the command "git"???
1224 2011-08-30 18:14:20 <ciscoftw> instead of svn?
1225 2011-08-30 18:14:23 <jtaylor> git clone url
1226 2011-08-30 18:14:39 <ciscoftw> :( can you give an example :(
1227 2011-08-30 18:14:43 <ciscoftw> i suck, i know :(
1228 2011-08-30 18:14:47 JRWR has joined
1229 2011-08-30 18:15:06 <ciscoftw> "svn checkout http://svn.json-rpc.org/trunk/python-jsonrpc"
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1232 2011-08-30 18:17:41 <lfm> ciscoftw: why dont you use bin?
1233 2011-08-30 18:17:50 <ciscoftw> i found the github mirror.. whats the command to install via svn/git?
1234 2011-08-30 18:18:00 <ciscoftw> bin? pastebin?
1235 2011-08-30 18:18:12 <lfm> ciscoftw: precompiled binary
1236 2011-08-30 18:18:23 <jtaylor> ciscoftw: thats probably correct one: bzr checkout http://bzr.json-rpc.org/trunk
1237 2011-08-30 18:18:24 <ciscoftw> cant find it via any repo's
1238 2011-08-30 18:18:36 <lfm> bitcoin.org
1239 2011-08-30 18:18:42 <ciscoftw> naaa, thats the new one :(
1240 2011-08-30 18:18:51 <ciscoftw> pretty sure i need to old one
1241 2011-08-30 18:19:13 <lfm> why you need old, and you arnt getting old from git
1242 2011-08-30 18:19:26 EvanR has joined
1243 2011-08-30 18:19:37 <ciscoftw> fournd url on GIT, whats command/method to install via GIT? "https://github.com/bmjames/python-jsonrpc.git"
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1246 2011-08-30 18:19:55 <jtaylor> git clone
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1275 2011-08-30 19:09:38 <upb> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/unsecure-directo
1276 2011-08-30 19:09:38 <upb> ry-on-phpnet-contains-blu-ray-movies-usernames-and-passwords-and
1277 2011-08-30 19:09:40 <upb> -more/56642
1278 2011-08-30 19:09:42 <upb> lol
1279 2011-08-30 19:12:10 <bonsaikitten> and now try to paste the URL in one line ... ;)
1280 2011-08-30 19:15:36 clr_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1281 2011-08-30 19:16:35 gp5st has joined
1282 2011-08-30 19:17:58 <upb> its pretty hard with a phone :p
1283 2011-08-30 19:20:20 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1284 2011-08-30 19:20:37 lookdang has joined
1285 2011-08-30 19:21:11 <xelister> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/unsecure-directory-on-phpnet-contains-blu-ray-movies-usernames-and-passwords-and-more/56642
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1294 2011-08-30 19:33:40 <iddo> xelister: i wonder about that camera scenario, if the person you gave the camera to dropped it and destroyed it, do you still think you're entitled to compensation from him? (this is more akin to the official version of bitomat.pl story)
1295 2011-08-30 19:37:25 hagen has joined
1296 2011-08-30 19:39:01 <xelister> iddo: more actually he turned around, and they said "ta-da" I lost your campera
1297 2011-08-30 19:39:04 <xelister> *camera
1298 2011-08-30 19:39:28 <xelister> iddo: more actually he turned around, and then he said "ta-da - I lost your camera"
1299 2011-08-30 19:39:36 <xelister> and, it was not a stranger
1300 2011-08-30 19:40:19 <xelister> this was a guy walking around calling "Hello hello, step right in! I'm a photographer, give me for a second your camera and I make you a picture. For starters it's for free"
1301 2011-08-30 19:40:39 <iddo> xelister: ok the details regarding bitomat.pl are arguable, so forget bitomat... do you still think you're entitled to compensation from him?
1302 2011-08-30 19:40:52 <xelister> from bitomat owner?
1303 2011-08-30 19:40:55 <xelister> sure
1304 2011-08-30 19:40:57 <iddo> him = person who dropped the camera
1305 2011-08-30 19:41:09 <xelister> if he would NOT proclaim to be a photographer?
1306 2011-08-30 19:41:47 <lfm> if he is a photographer he would ahve his own camera
1307 2011-08-30 19:41:51 <xelister> if he would be just really a random stranger... then I think he should compensate still, especially if he would be getting something out of it, anything, even a publicity or "fame"
1308 2011-08-30 19:41:57 <iddo> i'm just following your scenario, you're on vacation, you asked someone to take a shot of you and gave him your camera, and he dropped it and destroyed it
1309 2011-08-30 19:42:25 <iddo> so you would ask him for compensation?
1310 2011-08-30 19:42:36 <xelister> I think still one deserves a compensation. but this is not so obvious case as others
1311 2011-08-30 19:42:52 <iddo> if he refuses, then what?
1312 2011-08-30 19:43:25 <xelister> person should be entitled to sue
1313 2011-08-30 19:43:35 <lfm> beat him up
1314 2011-08-30 19:43:38 <xelister> not sure if myself I would care, all depends
1315 2011-08-30 19:43:43 <xelister> hehe not what lfm said ;)
1316 2011-08-30 19:44:29 <iddo> xelister: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSxbmUcR8ao
1317 2011-08-30 19:45:55 <xelister> yeah this can get a bit ridiculous ;)
1318 2011-08-30 19:45:56 <iddo> so you'd sue him, tell the judge you gave him your camera, he tells the judge he dropped the camera by mistake... so if you were the judge, what would be your verdict?
1319 2011-08-30 19:46:11 <luke-jr> ;;bc,gen 10000
1320 2011-08-30 19:46:12 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 10000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1777774.4820015 , is 0.00565779512963 BTC per day and 0.000235741463735 BTC per hour.
1321 2011-08-30 19:46:32 <xelister> yea that clip supports my view on this
1322 2011-08-30 19:46:43 QueryTom3000 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1323 2011-08-30 19:46:45 <luke-jr> ;;bc,gen 600000
1324 2011-08-30 19:46:46 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 600000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1777774.4820015 , is 0.339467707778 BTC per day and 0.0141444878241 BTC per hour.
1325 2011-08-30 19:46:53 <xelister> iddo: he should pay for it
1326 2011-08-30 19:47:17 <xelister> unless it was like in a rush, or it was some priceless 100,000$ antique camera and I didn't know that, et
1327 2011-08-30 19:47:18 <xelister> etc
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1331 2011-08-30 19:47:46 <iddo> xelister: but he only did you a favor and agreed to take a photo, then dropped it by mistake, why should he pay?
1332 2011-08-30 19:48:35 <xelister> making a small favour does not excuse causing huge damage
1333 2011-08-30 19:48:54 <iddo> but there was no malicious intent
1334 2011-08-30 19:49:23 <iddo> why should he take the loss, instead of you taking the loss?
1335 2011-08-30 19:49:32 <xelister> because he caused it
1336 2011-08-30 19:49:50 <xelister> what if someone would just sit on my camera in a bus and destroy it? I thnik it's obvious he should pay
1337 2011-08-30 19:50:09 <iddo> maybe you caused it, by giving him your camera?
1338 2011-08-30 19:50:10 <xelister> here it is the same situation, except he also did me a favour. but that favour is much smaller then the loss so doesn't compensate it
1339 2011-08-30 19:50:23 lookdang has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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1341 2011-08-30 19:50:45 <xelister> giving camera to someone doesn't destroy it
1342 2011-08-30 19:51:25 <xelister> it would be "my fault" if e.g. this would be a child, or guy with visible parkinsons ;) or drunk, or if it would be priceless or very slippery camera and I would not warn aobut this
1343 2011-08-30 19:51:51 <iddo> maybe some bird or dog got in his way, and that caused the camera to be dropped? so the bird caused it?
1344 2011-08-30 19:51:57 <kjj> oh god. are you still talking about this crap?
1345 2011-08-30 19:52:17 <iddo> kjj: we're talking about bitomat.pl ! :)
1346 2011-08-30 19:52:31 <kjj> yeah, that was the crap that I meant
1347 2011-08-30 19:52:31 <xelister> iddo: if someone else would run into that guy and pushed him causing the loss, then that guy should pay
1348 2011-08-30 19:52:44 clr_ has joined
1349 2011-08-30 19:52:45 <kjj> it is also the same crap you were talking about hours ago
1350 2011-08-30 19:52:56 <iddo> xelister: and if the 'someone else' is a bird, then you take the loss?
1351 2011-08-30 19:53:06 <xelister> btw, this ^^^ all is just about guy helping with photo. Bitomat case is more obvious, they advetised as a capable exchange site.
1352 2011-08-30 19:53:11 <luke-jr> iddo: then you shoot the bird and have a meal for it
1353 2011-08-30 19:53:30 <xelister> iddo: hm, with a bird clearly flying into him.. Im not sure.
1354 2011-08-30 19:54:22 <xelister> anyway, with bitomat, I think its obvious they must compensate -> and since mtgox bought that up then they must -> and since they again are missing deadlines on giving me money -> then I'm again FOREVER GOXXED
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1358 2011-08-30 19:55:30 <iddo> what if bitomat.pl doesn't have the funds so it cannot compensate (and assume mtgox didnt buy them) ?
1359 2011-08-30 19:55:41 lookdang has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1360 2011-08-30 19:55:51 <xelister> then owner should payback still.
1361 2011-08-30 19:56:04 <xelister> probably some agry drunk pollocks and russians mafia would be after him too =)
1362 2011-08-30 19:56:43 <iddo> how would he pay back?
1363 2011-08-30 19:56:53 <xelister> dunno
1364 2011-08-30 19:56:54 lookdang has joined
1365 2011-08-30 19:56:58 <xelister> perhaps he would not
1366 2011-08-30 19:57:02 <xelister> perhaps he would sold home
1367 2011-08-30 19:57:06 <mtrlt> lol
1368 2011-08-30 19:57:11 <mtrlt> he would not pay back is my guess
1369 2011-08-30 19:57:24 <mtrlt> bitcoin is anarchy :P
1370 2011-08-30 19:57:32 <xelister> and?
1371 2011-08-30 19:57:34 <upb> it would go to bankruptcy? process:p
1372 2011-08-30 19:57:45 <xelister> it was a guy
1373 2011-08-30 19:57:48 <xelister> without a company
1374 2011-08-30 19:57:49 <upb> and the liabilities would be resolved in priority
1375 2011-08-30 19:57:55 <[Tycho]> Many service owners don't understand the concept of responsibility :)
1376 2011-08-30 19:58:01 <mtrlt> yep
1377 2011-08-30 19:58:06 <xelister> he would perhaps be trialled
1378 2011-08-30 19:58:11 <upb> but mosr probably the company was llc
1379 2011-08-30 19:58:17 <xelister> and eventually got debt collectors on his ass
1380 2011-08-30 19:58:21 Strom- has joined
1381 2011-08-30 19:58:24 <xelister> upb: guy had NO company
1382 2011-08-30 19:58:26 <xelister> it was a dude
1383 2011-08-30 19:58:32 <upb> so the owner is not liable with his personal assets
1384 2011-08-30 19:58:36 clr_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1385 2011-08-30 19:58:40 <xelister> upb: yo dude?
1386 2011-08-30 19:58:41 <upb> so what did ötgox buy then:p
1387 2011-08-30 19:58:43 <xelister> look;
1388 2011-08-30 19:58:46 <xelister> HE WAS A DUDE
1389 2011-08-30 19:58:49 <upb> wtf
1390 2011-08-30 19:58:53 <xelister> duuuuuuuuuuuude
1391 2011-08-30 19:59:05 <xelister> mtgox bought (c) to code, and the domain name probably
1392 2011-08-30 19:59:06 <upb> how did he get a bank account
1393 2011-08-30 19:59:11 <xelister> normally?
1394 2011-08-30 19:59:19 <upb> a personal account?
1395 2011-08-30 19:59:22 <xelister> yea
1396 2011-08-30 19:59:23 JRWR has joined
1397 2011-08-30 19:59:23 JRWR has quit (Changing host)
1398 2011-08-30 19:59:23 JRWR has joined
1399 2011-08-30 19:59:25 <upb> ahahahahha
1400 2011-08-30 19:59:36 <xelister> mtgox bought also probably illegally the database of users
1401 2011-08-30 19:59:37 <upb> this bitcoin stuff is just so crazy
1402 2011-08-30 19:59:43 <xelister> actually bitomat.pl is probably suable for this
1403 2011-08-30 19:59:49 <xelister> illegal trading of personall information
1404 2011-08-30 19:59:50 <upb> this means that the guy hose can be taken
1405 2011-08-30 19:59:54 <upb> and all his stuff
1406 2011-08-30 20:00:01 <xelister> yeap
1407 2011-08-30 20:00:06 <upb> also if he goes to personal bankrupt
1408 2011-08-30 20:00:16 <xelister> there is no such think [working] in pl
1409 2011-08-30 20:00:18 <upb> all his income will be taken - some minimum
1410 2011-08-30 20:00:21 <xelister> he would be left homeless
1411 2011-08-30 20:00:24 <xelister> or rather actually,
1412 2011-08-30 20:00:29 <BlueMatt> can we stop being so far off topic?
1413 2011-08-30 20:00:32 <xelister> he would written everying on his wife
1414 2011-08-30 20:00:45 <xelister> BlueMatt: bitcoin exchanges are offtopic?
1415 2011-08-30 20:00:46 <BlueMatt> and stop spreading the most patentably false fud about mtgox?
1416 2011-08-30 20:00:55 <upb> yes, IF he can fake it with backdated contracts
1417 2011-08-30 20:00:57 <xelister> BlueMatt: what fud about mtgox?
1418 2011-08-30 20:01:08 <BlueMatt> <xelister> illegal trading of personall information
1419 2011-08-30 20:01:12 <upb> were talking about bitomat
1420 2011-08-30 20:01:14 <BlueMatt> are you kidding me?
1421 2011-08-30 20:01:25 <upb> not gox
1422 2011-08-30 20:01:28 <xelister> upb: ye he can. He have time to write stuff off before the end of trial (or at least the begining)
1423 2011-08-30 20:01:30 newbie1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1424 2011-08-30 20:01:42 <xelister> BlueMatt: how about you read log before saying stuff like that
1425 2011-08-30 20:01:45 <BlueMatt> anyway, yes bitcoin exchanges are offtopic?
1426 2011-08-30 20:01:51 <BlueMatt> s/?//
1427 2011-08-30 20:02:06 <upb> it also depends on the issue of when the insolveny was apparent
1428 2011-08-30 20:02:13 <xelister> well sorry to distrupt all this development talk that happened never
1429 2011-08-30 20:02:20 Strom has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1430 2011-08-30 20:02:35 <copumpkin> it's not just about disrupting conversations
1431 2011-08-30 20:02:36 <BlueMatt> xelister: "illegal trading of personall information" you are just talking out of your ass...
1432 2011-08-30 20:02:36 <upb> bankrupt laws has provisins for preventing that kind of moving assets off company or person
1433 2011-08-30 20:02:36 <xelister> BlueMatt: don't be pain in the ass =) this is also channel for bitcoin talks between oldtimers
1434 2011-08-30 20:02:52 <BlueMatt> fine, talk about what you want, but keep it atleast somewhat true
1435 2011-08-30 20:02:54 <copumpkin> but making it hard to sort through the crap when all you're interested in is dev talk
1436 2011-08-30 20:03:04 <xelister> upb: in PL, afaik, he could easly write all off to wife or family
1437 2011-08-30 20:03:11 <BlueMatt> but fud is never ok here
1438 2011-08-30 20:03:15 <xelister> well ok copumpkin makes some point
1439 2011-08-30 20:03:20 <xelister> I will continue in #bitcoin then
1440 2011-08-30 20:03:26 <upb> there was no dev talk here atm
1441 2011-08-30 20:03:40 <copumpkin> xelister: wow :) people normally rip my head off when I say that
1442 2011-08-30 20:03:40 <xelister> BlueMatt: it is not fud, it was illegal for bitomat.pl to give mtgox.com bitomat.pl's user database. more -> #bitomat
1443 2011-08-30 20:03:45 <xelister> erm -> #bitcoin
1444 2011-08-30 20:03:50 <copumpkin> thanks
1445 2011-08-30 20:04:23 <xelister> lol there are still 5 seeding-clients in #bitomat how old are they
1446 2011-08-30 20:04:26 JRWR has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1447 2011-08-30 20:04:32 <xelister> <uCgUKTWwZJcQJCh> and others
1448 2011-08-30 20:04:33 <xelister> >5
1449 2011-08-30 20:04:48 <BlueMatt> damn
1450 2011-08-30 20:15:56 JRWR has joined
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1456 2011-08-30 20:23:10 <andyroo> wow, microsoft has a python IDE and win 8 will allow ISO mounting
1457 2011-08-30 20:23:19 <andyroo> seems like they're coming around again
1458 2011-08-30 20:24:12 QueryTom3000 has joined
1459 2011-08-30 20:24:29 QueryTom3000 has left ()
1460 2011-08-30 20:25:02 <andyroo> I don't have windows, but it's here for those interested: http://pytools.codeplex.com/
1461 2011-08-30 20:25:12 shLONG has joined
1462 2011-08-30 20:25:31 <shLONG> hey
1463 2011-08-30 20:25:54 <shLONG> I manage a large list of proxies
1464 2011-08-30 20:26:11 <shLONG> I have my own server with execute permissions
1465 2011-08-30 20:26:28 <shLONG> i want to ping the ips and cull the ones that dont reply every hour
1466 2011-08-30 20:26:39 <shLONG> thing is exec("ping is a bit too slow
1467 2011-08-30 20:26:49 <shLONG> can anyone reccomend another solution?
1468 2011-08-30 20:26:59 <cut> wow execute permissions. sure you can handle that ok?
1469 2011-08-30 20:27:19 <shLONG> well im just making a point that I can execute a daemon if needed.
1470 2011-08-30 20:27:25 <shLONG> ...
1471 2011-08-30 20:27:31 <andyroo> cut, he means he can shell in and do stuff
1472 2011-08-30 20:27:36 <andyroo> not just file transfer
1473 2011-08-30 20:28:36 <upb> haha
1474 2011-08-30 20:28:46 <shLONG> In theory I could make a small C app to connect to mysql ip list and perform threaded system pings
1475 2011-08-30 20:28:53 <upb> yep
1476 2011-08-30 20:28:53 <shLONG> then just exec() the app from php
1477 2011-08-30 20:28:58 <upb> wtf
1478 2011-08-30 20:29:03 <upb> why php
1479 2011-08-30 20:29:05 <shLONG> but im not sure that is a great idea either
1480 2011-08-30 20:29:14 <upb> run it as a daemon
1481 2011-08-30 20:29:19 <upb> or from cron
1482 2011-08-30 20:29:27 <andyroo> exactly, this is what cron is for
1483 2011-08-30 20:29:32 <andyroo> you can do time ping -c 1 <server>
1484 2011-08-30 20:29:37 <shLONG> well I have a refresh button on a control panel page that needs to refresh the proxy list
1485 2011-08-30 20:29:41 <andyroo> and parse out the actual time data, and update a list
1486 2011-08-30 20:29:49 <shLONG> cron?
1487 2011-08-30 20:30:03 <andyroo> you PHP can then parse said list - put it in /var somewhere
1488 2011-08-30 20:30:09 <upb> if you run it as a daemon, then signal the daemon from php
1489 2011-08-30 20:30:22 <andyroo> cron is a daemon running on linux systems that executes scripts at specified intervals
1490 2011-08-30 20:30:22 <upb> or queue a scan request in db
1491 2011-08-30 20:30:43 <shLONG> ah I see
1492 2011-08-30 20:30:46 AStove has quit ()
1493 2011-08-30 20:30:54 <shLONG> so I can write a bash script?
1494 2011-08-30 20:31:08 <andyroo> yep
1495 2011-08-30 20:31:08 <shLONG> i dont know an awefull lot but can I access mysql from bash script?
1496 2011-08-30 20:31:35 <upb> it will be ugly but yes
1497 2011-08-30 20:31:46 <andyroo> i wouldn't do that -- use a flat file
1498 2011-08-30 20:31:59 <upb> i would use a db:)
1499 2011-08-30 20:31:59 <andyroo> just have a plaintext list of IPs and let something else parse it
1500 2011-08-30 20:32:22 <andyroo> well, you could do a PHP or Python script
1501 2011-08-30 20:32:55 <shLONG> http://unstableme.blogspot.com/2008/06/execute-mysql-from-bash-script.html
1502 2011-08-30 20:33:14 <shLONG> thing is the speed problem is the lack of threading
1503 2011-08-30 20:33:58 <shLONG> oh right holdon, if I execute ping > some file mutliple times
1504 2011-08-30 20:34:02 <andyroo> why do you care about speed?
1505 2011-08-30 20:34:04 <shLONG> it will execute new processes
1506 2011-08-30 20:34:12 <andyroo> just update the list every hour, do it in series
1507 2011-08-30 20:34:16 <andyroo> and don't worry about speed
1508 2011-08-30 20:34:16 <shLONG> well to ping 10,000 proxies it takes 2 seconds per proxy
1509 2011-08-30 20:34:28 <andyroo> alright, i'll give you that
1510 2011-08-30 20:34:35 <andyroo> :YP
1511 2011-08-30 20:34:41 <upb> pretty much anything you do will be afucked up mess by this info
1512 2011-08-30 20:34:45 <shLONG> i want to haveover 200,000 proxies eventually in the list :P
1513 2011-08-30 20:34:51 <shLONG> haha
1514 2011-08-30 20:35:03 <upb> dont use bash scripts
1515 2011-08-30 20:35:04 <xelister> btw, anyone would like to join a 103% payout pool?
1516 2011-08-30 20:35:26 <andyroo> at work i once had a script that ran wget 203 times in parallel - that was the max my system could handle
1517 2011-08-30 20:35:39 <andyroo> though we didn't care about time, we were just test-ddosing a product
1518 2011-08-30 20:36:15 <shLONG> if this was windows
1519 2011-08-30 20:36:19 <shLONG> i wouldent have a problem
1520 2011-08-30 20:36:32 <shLONG> IMCP.dll from a multi threaded app
1521 2011-08-30 20:36:34 <upb> because youd do it in VB?:p
1522 2011-08-30 20:36:48 <shLONG> lol C++
1523 2011-08-30 20:37:01 <shLONG> but im not as experienced on linux
1524 2011-08-30 20:37:02 <upb> so why not use C++ on lunux
1525 2011-08-30 20:37:04 <andyroo> haha, linux has far better networking facilites than windows
1526 2011-08-30 20:37:27 <andyroo> write a script that checks a single proxy, returns 0/1 for success/failure
1527 2011-08-30 20:37:31 <nanotube> xelister: where does the subsidy come from
1528 2011-08-30 20:37:32 <shLONG> how can I execute a ping in C++ on linux? Posix threads look pretty simple so it shouldent be too hard if I can do the former
1529 2011-08-30 20:37:39 <xelister> nanotube: pool owner
1530 2011-08-30 20:37:51 <nanotube> xelister: why does he hand out free money?
1531 2011-08-30 20:37:56 <upb> with exec*
1532 2011-08-30 20:38:11 <xelister> nanotube: he is awesome
1533 2011-08-30 20:38:15 * marktraceur wonders how shLONG is programming on nothing but the Linux kernel
1534 2011-08-30 20:38:18 <xelister> I can sign your t-shirt too
1535 2011-08-30 20:38:31 <xelister> 103% for early people, then 101% then 100%
1536 2011-08-30 20:38:41 <shLONG> marktraceur??
1537 2011-08-30 20:38:51 <nanotube> ah, so basically it's just a promotional bit to entice people to join the pool eh? :)
1538 2011-08-30 20:38:52 <upb> hehe
1539 2011-08-30 20:38:56 <marktraceur> I mean, you can make it far easier with the GNU utils
1540 2011-08-30 20:38:57 <CIA-101> bitcoinj: miron@google.com * r192 /trunk/ (README pom.xml): Dependency copy mvn target for Eclipse users
1541 2011-08-30 20:39:00 <upb> GNU/linux :p
1542 2011-08-30 20:39:04 <xelister> nanotube: yea
1543 2011-08-30 20:39:07 <upb> including glibc
1544 2011-08-30 20:39:31 <shLONG> GNU utils?
1545 2011-08-30 20:39:32 <xelister> nanotube: if you like it you can donate thoguh, we need good fast stable pools
1546 2011-08-30 20:39:35 <nanotube> xelister: heh ic. :) you should try p2pool instead - it's "the next thing in mining" :)
1547 2011-08-30 20:39:38 <xelister> that demonopolize pooling
1548 2011-08-30 20:39:43 <xelister> nanotube: is it working?
1549 2011-08-30 20:39:46 <upb> shLONG: hes just trolling u
1550 2011-08-30 20:39:49 <shLONG> ah
1551 2011-08-30 20:39:56 <shLONG> ty
1552 2011-08-30 20:39:57 <upb> youre using it anyway
1553 2011-08-30 20:40:00 larsivi has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1554 2011-08-30 20:40:01 <nanotube> xelister: yes, already found 3 blocks on mainnet.
1555 2011-08-30 20:40:06 <xelister> nanotube: url?
1556 2011-08-30 20:40:09 <nanotube> p2pool.org
1557 2011-08-30 20:40:14 asuk has joined
1558 2011-08-30 20:40:24 <nanotube> (currently redirects to a wiki page)
1559 2011-08-30 20:40:52 <shLONG> why are the like a million intel processor sockets atm
1560 2011-08-30 20:41:13 <xelister> nanotube: how secure is it
1561 2011-08-30 20:41:19 <nanotube> xelister: secure from what, exactly?
1562 2011-08-30 20:41:20 <shLONG> 1156, 1155, 1366
1563 2011-08-30 20:41:25 kloeri has joined
1564 2011-08-30 20:41:26 <nanotube> xelister: from cheating?
1565 2011-08-30 20:41:31 <xelister> nanotube: all possible attacks or gambling the system, cheating etc
1566 2011-08-30 20:41:49 <nanotube> xelister: well, read the wiki about the protocol and decide for yourself.
1567 2011-08-30 20:42:11 <nanotube> essentially, the cheating prevention is no different than the centralized pools. you don't submit work, you don't get paid.
1568 2011-08-30 20:42:13 <xelister> yea Im too lazy&bussy,
1569 2011-08-30 20:42:17 <xelister> nanotube: what is your opinion =)
1570 2011-08-30 20:42:34 <xelister> ok
1571 2011-08-30 20:42:37 <nanotube> :)
1572 2011-08-30 20:42:52 Titeuf_87 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1573 2011-08-30 20:43:52 <nanotube> the big bonus is, there's no central party controlling the work distribution, so there's no "centralization of control" as with the regular pools.
1574 2011-08-30 20:45:20 <D0han> The chain continuously regulates its target to keep generation around one share every five seconds.
1575 2011-08-30 20:45:34 <D0han> who will make a pool for p2pool?
1576 2011-08-30 20:45:34 <D0han> ;D
1577 2011-08-30 20:46:00 <upb> hat is the p2ppool share target
1578 2011-08-30 20:46:19 <nanotube> ;;bc,p2pooldiff
1579 2011-08-30 20:46:19 <gribble> 33.5528908274
1580 2011-08-30 20:46:25 <nanotube> currently share difficulty is 33
1581 2011-08-30 20:46:25 <xelister> nanotube: who controlls which tx to be included?
1582 2011-08-30 20:46:33 <nanotube> xelister: each individual miner decides
1583 2011-08-30 20:46:40 <xelister> yo dawgs
1584 2011-08-30 20:46:43 <xelister> I herd you like to pool
1585 2011-08-30 20:46:47 iocor has joined
1586 2011-08-30 20:46:47 <xelister> so we put a pool in your pool
1587 2011-08-30 20:46:51 <xelister> so you can earn while you earn
1588 2011-08-30 20:46:51 <nanotube> heh
1589 2011-08-30 20:47:28 <nanotube> D0han: funny, but probably that'll happen when the "main pool" gets so much hash power that smaller miners get too much variance. :)
1590 2011-08-30 20:47:46 <nanotube> D0han: also, it's 10 seconds now.
1591 2011-08-30 20:48:00 JRWR has quit (Read error: No route to host)
1592 2011-08-30 20:48:17 <xelister> yo dawgs
1593 2011-08-30 20:48:22 <D0han> it was c&p from wiki
1594 2011-08-30 20:48:24 <xelister> I herd you like to p2p
1595 2011-08-30 20:48:29 <xelister> so we put your bitcoin in freenet
1596 2011-08-30 20:48:33 <xelister> so you can waaait while you waaait
1597 2011-08-30 20:48:42 <xelister> not everyone will get this :P
1598 2011-08-30 20:48:55 erle- has joined
1599 2011-08-30 20:49:07 <nanotube> D0han: yes, wiki hasn't been updated on that yet :)
1600 2011-08-30 20:49:13 <nanotube> i bring you the latest news from IRC :)
1601 2011-08-30 20:49:20 <D0han> ;)
1602 2011-08-30 20:49:37 <D0han> its still 17280 shares history?
1603 2011-08-30 20:49:41 <D0han> or half of that?
1604 2011-08-30 20:49:52 <nanotube> afaik the history length hasn't changed.
1605 2011-08-30 20:50:33 theymos has joined
1606 2011-08-30 20:53:38 <D0han> p2pool is perfect for botnet
1607 2011-08-30 20:53:43 <D0han> run & forget
1608 2011-08-30 20:54:01 <D0han> i wonder when we will see one in action
1609 2011-08-30 20:55:35 <nanotube> heh possibly
1610 2011-08-30 20:56:12 <D0han> nanotube: what about bootstrap? i dont see anything on wiki
1611 2011-08-30 20:56:14 <nanotube> a botnet could even set up its own p2pool, running a separate network on a different port
1612 2011-08-30 20:56:30 <nanotube> D0han: the code has a few bootstrap nodes hard coded. the rest you query from those, just like bitcoin.
1613 2011-08-30 20:56:48 <BlueMatt> bootstrapping is like 90% dnsseed now
1614 2011-08-30 20:56:53 bobke has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1615 2011-08-30 20:57:06 <BlueMatt> (purely because none of the other methods work)
1616 2011-08-30 20:57:14 <D0han> p2pool use dnsseed also?
1617 2011-08-30 20:57:20 <BlueMatt> oh, no
1618 2011-08-30 20:57:21 <nanotube> D0han: not that i know of.
1619 2011-08-30 20:57:29 <nanotube> BlueMatt: so is irc bootstrap completely borked?
1620 2011-08-30 20:57:30 <D0han> mhm
1621 2011-08-30 20:57:44 <BlueMatt> nanotube: it works, you just have to try a lot of nodes to find a working one...
1622 2011-08-30 20:57:44 <nanotube> BlueMatt: also, i'd have thought asking a node you're connected to for other nodes would still work fine...
1623 2011-08-30 20:57:56 <BlueMatt> and the static list is like always 100% maxed on connection limits
1624 2011-08-30 20:58:18 <BlueMatt> yea, after you get the first 2-5 nodes from dnsseed, the rest is pex
1625 2011-08-30 20:58:27 <BlueMatt> (only because the client forces that)
1626 2011-08-30 20:58:39 <BlueMatt> but then you still have to try a decent number to get more nodes
1627 2011-08-30 20:58:42 <BlueMatt> not toooo many though
1628 2011-08-30 20:58:51 larsivi has joined
1629 2011-08-30 20:59:00 <nanotube> BlueMatt: heh i guess i have a good cache in addr.dat, never had an issue :)
1630 2011-08-30 20:59:31 <nanotube> also, any limit on the desired number of hardcoded seednodes? or should i just try to throw in as many good-uptime nodes as i can?
1631 2011-08-30 20:59:45 <nanotube> also, is dnsseed on by default in .24 now?
1632 2011-08-30 20:59:45 <BlueMatt> good cache is fine, but you are still trying a lot of nodes
1633 2011-08-30 20:59:55 <BlueMatt> if you do all dnsseed, you can get a couple connections before the gui shows up
1634 2011-08-30 21:00:10 <BlueMatt> Id say keep seednodes around where they are now
1635 2011-08-30 21:00:16 <BlueMatt> yes, dnsseed is default in .24
1636 2011-08-30 21:00:21 <BlueMatt> iirc
1637 2011-08-30 21:00:55 <BlueMatt> god 42 open pull requests...
1638 2011-08-30 21:01:12 <nanotube> where's that QA guy when you need him? :)
1639 2011-08-30 21:01:17 <BlueMatt> hehe
1640 2011-08-30 21:01:36 <BlueMatt> most of them fall under "we should have something like this eventually, but its fairly low on the list atm..."
1641 2011-08-30 21:02:33 <BlueMatt> anyway, Im hungry, Ima go eat
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1651 2011-08-30 21:17:29 <CIA-101> bitcoinj: miron@google.com * r193 /trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix key array handling in importing/exporting private keys. Resolves issue 48.
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1666 2011-08-30 21:56:47 <Doktor99_> does anybody know why found blocks sometimes have timestamps out of order?
1667 2011-08-30 21:57:04 <xelister> https://mtgox.com/ graph of last prices appears goxxed?
1668 2011-08-30 21:57:05 <Doktor99_> is this because the miner has an out of whack clock but the network doesn't care?
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1671 2011-08-30 21:59:57 <theymos> Yes. Timestamps can be within certain bounds.
1672 2011-08-30 22:00:28 <Doktor99_> theymos: what are those bounds?
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1674 2011-08-30 22:01:13 <theymos> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_timestamp
1675 2011-08-30 22:02:00 <Doktor99_> theymos: and, speaking of bounds, are there any bounds for which transactions _must_ be included? Can I choose to seek a new block and includes no new transactions, or will the network at some point reject it on the basis that it has not attempted to include all reasonable transactions?
1676 2011-08-30 22:02:22 <xelister> deos grtaph of last prices work for you ? https://mtgox.com/
1677 2011-08-30 22:02:52 <ByteCoin> Theymos: You still here?
1678 2011-08-30 22:03:16 <theymos> Yes.
1679 2011-08-30 22:03:26 <theymos> Doktor99_: No. Miners can include no transactions if they want.
1680 2011-08-30 22:03:42 <Doktor99_> so their incentive is proportional to the transaction fees, and goodwill
1681 2011-08-30 22:04:10 <ByteCoin> Theymos: If a transaction is corrupted (intentionally) during the relaying stage by flipping a few bits. How early is it caught.. Does it depend which bits are flipped?
1682 2011-08-30 22:04:44 <Doktor99_> ByteCoin: are you the guy that came up with the BTCDD metric for velocity?
1683 2011-08-30 22:05:00 <ByteCoin> Doktor99: Yes
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1685 2011-08-30 22:05:47 <Doktor99_> ByteCoin: neat stuff. I notice that http://abe.john-edwin-tobey.org/chain/Bitcoin reports CoinDD on a per block basis; are there any cool live graphs out there that you're aware of?
1686 2011-08-30 22:07:09 <ByteCoin> Theymos: I'm asking because I thought you might happen to know whether there's some overall signature for a transaction which guarantees integrity. As far as I know.. there is not.
1687 2011-08-30 22:08:05 <theymos> ByteCoin: Except for that signature modification vulnerability, changes should be caught when the scriptSigs are verified, unless the changes made the transaction format itself invalid.
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1690 2011-08-30 22:10:20 <ByteCoin> theymos: So that is to say that the changes will be caught when the client receiving the transaction matches up the scriptsigs in the TxIns with the scriptpubkeys for the relevant transactions in the block chain and finds that the signature verification fails. Correct?
1691 2011-08-30 22:10:48 <theymos> Yes.
1692 2011-08-30 22:11:08 <theymos> You think there'd be a more efficient way to do it, in order to avoid the expensive signature verification?
1693 2011-08-30 22:11:32 <ByteCoin> I was hoping...
1694 2011-08-30 22:12:09 <theymos> I think future versions of Bitcoin will kick/ban peers that send bad transactions.
1695 2011-08-30 22:13:14 <ByteCoin> That's one solution. It needs to be thought about and implemented carefully. Testing is also particularly tricky with something like that.
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1698 2011-08-30 22:14:08 <theymos> I think this particular case is simple. The message passes the message integrity checks, but it fails verification: the sender's ECDSA is broken or they are trying to attack the network.
1699 2011-08-30 22:14:19 <ByteCoin> I believe I can recall occasions where attackers exploit ill-considered responses to attacks to make the attacks even more potent.
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1701 2011-08-30 22:15:26 <ByteCoin> Just to clarify - haven't we agreed that there are is no effective message integrity indicator?
1702 2011-08-30 22:15:57 <nanotube> well, doesn't a transaction have to be signed by the sender's ecdsa key?
1703 2011-08-30 22:16:20 <theymos> ByteCoin: I mean the "checksum" on all messages.
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1705 2011-08-30 22:16:45 <ByteCoin> Ok. There's a checksum is there.... Thanks.
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1707 2011-08-30 22:18:04 <vsrinivas> hi folks; submitted a patch to the mailing list to workaround lack of msg_nosignal a few days ago; haven't seen any discussion in response. would pinging the list be okay for that? should i have done something different?
1708 2011-08-30 22:18:05 <theymos> A relay could still modify the message and change this checksum, which would require an ECDSA verification to detect. But at this point I think it's safe to kick the peer.
1709 2011-08-30 22:18:48 <ByteCoin> Yes. I believe that some effort is being made to realize this solution.
1710 2011-08-30 22:20:26 <ByteCoin> Doktor99: Thanks for the link. I didn't know that the "BitcoinDays Destroyed" measure had been implemented. No I don't know of any graphs.
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1714 2011-08-30 22:24:09 <nanotube> vsrinivas: sure, a little discussion doesn't hurt. try the list or the dev section of forum.
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