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19 2011-09-02 00:27:58 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r5d845f2fb19f cgminer/util.c: If curl does not have sockopts, do not try to compile the json_rpc_call_sockopt_cb function, making it possible to build against older curl libraries.
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23 2011-09-02 00:47:57 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r062f937cee14 cgminer/configure.ac: Most people expect /usr/local when an unspecified prefix is used so change to that.
24 2011-09-02 00:47:58 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r063efb1996a5 cgminer/ (README main.c miner.h): Rename localgen occasions to getwork fail occasions since localgen is unrelated now.
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37 2011-09-02 01:38:21 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr bugfix_missing_GNU_SOURCE * rc9124cc010a2 pushpool-personal/util.c: Define _GNU_SOURCE in util.c, required for asprintf
38 2011-09-02 01:38:21 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr noncerange * r5a9b77252ed2 pushpool-personal/ (msg.c server.c server.h): Implement noncerange extension (DRAFT, please review)
39 2011-09-02 01:42:52 <luke-jr> jgarzik: the bugfix one there is trivial⦠might bother pulling sometime
40 2011-09-02 01:42:58 <luke-jr> jgarzik: all it does is #define _GNU_SOURCE basically
41 2011-09-02 01:43:09 <luke-jr> (I turned on -Wall -Werror)
42 2011-09-02 01:47:55 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik * ra425cf5b646e pushpool/util.c: Define _GNU_SOURCE in util.c, required for asprintf
43 2011-09-02 01:49:01 <luke-jr> :P
44 2011-09-02 01:53:02 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik noncerange * ra425cf5b646e pushpool-personal/util.c: Define _GNU_SOURCE in util.c, required for asprintf
45 2011-09-02 01:53:04 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr noncerange * r491a232178a3 pushpool-personal/ (msg.c server.c server.h): Implement noncerange extension (DRAFT, please review)
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64 2011-09-02 02:53:02 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r33c2eccbf848 cgminer/README: Update README.
65 2011-09-02 02:53:04 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * rdd78340c329b cgminer/NEWS: Update NEWS.
66 2011-09-02 02:53:05 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r65707516d3c3 cgminer/configure.ac: With no c++ code there is no point showing CXXFLAGS.
67 2011-09-02 02:53:06 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r690ab48736c2 cgminer/configure.ac: Bump version to 1.6.2.
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132 2011-09-02 05:27:51 <ThomasV> sgornick: did you see falkvinge's last article ?
133 2011-09-02 05:28:13 <ThomasV> http://falkvinge.net/2011/08/25/days-of-reckoning-fast-approaching-for-banks/
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138 2011-09-02 05:32:32 <sgornick> ThomasV: No I haven't. Will try to once I clear off my plate a couple things. Thanks.
139 2011-09-02 05:32:50 sgornick has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
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141 2011-09-02 05:36:59 <SAC> Well there is an ill wind blowing through the bitcoin community. I tell the truth about what RealSolid was up to with the SolidCoin on the bitcointalk.org and all I get or my trouble is my login disabled. Now their normal reaction to these new forks is to kill them of as soon as possible but they must have so many of them coins left they all think they actually are going to get rich killing off bitcoin like you early adopters of bitcoin supposed
142 2011-09-02 05:37:04 SAC has left ()
143 2011-09-02 05:37:57 <cacheson> ^ bizarre, reverse-psychology attempt to promote solidcoin?
144 2011-09-02 05:38:47 <doublec> sac and realsolid are having a disagreement
145 2011-09-02 05:39:00 <cacheson> doublec: yeah, I saw
146 2011-09-02 05:39:13 <cacheson> SAC's approach is just a little... incoherent
147 2011-09-02 05:39:33 <doublec> yes, it's a bit hard to follow.
148 2011-09-02 05:39:50 sgornick has joined
149 2011-09-02 05:40:09 <nanotube> what /is/ sac's approach?
150 2011-09-02 05:41:07 <cacheson> nanotube: wall-of-text rambling, I guess
151 2011-09-02 05:41:09 <doublec> as few punctuation and paragraphs as possible
152 2011-09-02 05:41:25 <nanotube> haha i see. "punctuation is for weenies (tm)" :)
153 2011-09-02 05:41:46 <copumpkin> link?
154 2011-09-02 05:42:01 <doublec> copumpkin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=40770.0
155 2011-09-02 05:42:18 <cacheson> copumpkin: also, his message here just now
156 2011-09-02 05:43:17 <doublec> I think he claims that realsolid and noagendamarket were manipulating the exchange price and causing him to lose money.
157 2011-09-02 05:44:52 <kjj_AFK> I'm still having a hard time imagining people actually buying these other coins on exchanges
158 2011-09-02 05:46:31 <cacheson> they're all taking longer to die than I expected
159 2011-09-02 05:46:40 kjj_AFK is now known as kjj
160 2011-09-02 05:47:07 <cacheson> I guess Ixcoin and I0coin got a second wind from breaking and then being fixed
161 2011-09-02 05:47:12 <kjj> yeah, but how? I can totally see mining some coins on easy mode and selling them.
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166 2011-09-02 05:47:46 <kjj> but to sell them, someone else must buy, and I have a hard time imagining a real human being that dumb
167 2011-09-02 05:48:04 <doublec> the buyers are hoping they can day trade their way to a profit
168 2011-09-02 05:48:16 <doublec> or that it'll become "the one true chain"
169 2011-09-02 05:48:18 <cacheson> kjj: I didn't have trouble believing people were dumb enough to buy
170 2011-09-02 05:48:27 <cacheson> kjj: I just figured they'd go insolvent sooner
171 2011-09-02 05:48:27 <doublec> making them an "early adopter" (tm)
172 2011-09-02 05:48:48 <doublec> i0coin is still pretty dead
173 2011-09-02 05:48:48 <cacheson> or at least get burned badly enough to scare them off
174 2011-09-02 05:48:57 <doublec> ixcoin is following thanks to the network split
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176 2011-09-02 05:49:58 <cacheson> eh, they seem to be hanging around the prices that they started at
177 2011-09-02 05:50:04 <cacheson> 001-002ish
178 2011-09-02 05:53:59 <ThomasV> solidcoins are priced higher
179 2011-09-02 05:54:11 <cacheson> ThomasV: yeah, I meant ix and i0
180 2011-09-02 05:54:57 <ThomasV> but solidcoins are more recent, the supply is being inflated very fast
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182 2011-09-02 05:55:24 <ThomasV> without new demand its price should drop soon
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184 2011-09-02 05:56:22 <cacheson> I wonder if coinhunter is propping the price up all by himself?
185 2011-09-02 05:56:37 <cacheson> he claimed that he's buying 12-15 btc worth per day or something
186 2011-09-02 05:57:03 <ThomasV> I don't believe him
187 2011-09-02 05:57:48 <cacheson> yeah, it crossed my mind that his "websites" probably don't exist
188 2011-09-02 05:58:01 <ThomasV> don't exist ?
189 2011-09-02 05:58:25 <cacheson> he said that the 12-15 btc per day is from websites that he runs
190 2011-09-02 05:58:54 <cacheson> I was going to ask about them, but I figured he'd just ignore me
191 2011-09-02 05:59:34 <ThomasV> he has the personality of a religious leader
192 2011-09-02 06:00:03 <cacheson> ha, sounds about right
193 2011-09-02 06:00:13 <ThomasV> but it might work; religion is what some people need, so he will probably find his niche
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197 2011-09-02 06:10:20 <HaltingState> SAC what did you post that they disabled your login?
198 2011-09-02 06:11:54 <gmaxwell> HaltingState: considering that they won't disable your login if you post about using bitcoin to buy babies from russia to feed into a wood mulcher, it must have been pretty bad.
199 2011-09-02 06:13:19 <andyroo> can somebody point me to some good crypto information about bitcoin's keypair generation?
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201 2011-09-02 06:13:29 <andyroo> like, pkey = EC_KEY_new_by_curve_name(NID_secp256k1);
202 2011-09-02 06:14:09 <andyroo> i am a mathematics major, so not afraid of technical information
203 2011-09-02 06:14:18 <andyroo> just not terribly familiar with crypto
204 2011-09-02 06:14:46 <cjdelisl1> it's plain old ecdsa
205 2011-09-02 06:15:10 <theymos> secp256k1 is a strange curve, though.
206 2011-09-02 06:15:24 <andyroo> why was it chosen? does it matter what curve i use?
207 2011-09-02 06:15:34 <cjdelisl1> generate a random number, that's your private key ([x,y] coordinents) point multiply it over the base point on the curve and you get your public key
208 2011-09-02 06:15:58 <gmaxwell> andyroo: because the k curves have a special form that leads to higher performance and there was a big concern about performance.
209 2011-09-02 06:16:15 <kjj> there are several good tutorials on elliptic curve on the net
210 2011-09-02 06:18:04 hahuang65 has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
211 2011-09-02 06:18:55 <Matth1a3> can someone tell me how I would disable dnsseed and irc to test the seednode list?
212 2011-09-02 06:20:34 brunner has joined
213 2011-09-02 06:20:55 <kjj> -noirc will turn off the IRC thing, but I don't think there is a switch for DNS
214 2011-09-02 06:21:12 <Matth1a3> maybe I can block it's listening port?
215 2011-09-02 06:21:36 <Matth1a3> its*
216 2011-09-02 06:21:47 <kjj> block bitcoin's listening port, or DNSs? the second one won't be easy
217 2011-09-02 06:21:55 <Matth1a3> DNSs
218 2011-09-02 06:22:05 <theymos> -nodnsseed.
219 2011-09-02 06:22:58 <Matth1a3> awesome, thanks guys
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238 2011-09-02 07:28:02 <gjs278> ;;bc,stats
239 2011-09-02 07:28:04 <gribble> Current Blocks: 143589 | Current Difficulty: 1777774.4820015 | Next Difficulty At Block: 145151 | Next Difficulty In: 1562 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 15 hours, 7 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1817064.53965830
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256 2011-09-02 07:59:15 <Matth1a3> can someone tell me how to build Berkeley DB in ubuntu?
257 2011-09-02 08:00:00 <SomeoneWeird> ./configure && make && sudo make instal
258 2011-09-02 08:00:02 <SomeoneWeird> l
259 2011-09-02 08:00:02 <SomeoneWeird> :)
260 2011-09-02 08:01:14 BitterTe1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
261 2011-09-02 08:08:47 <Matth1a3> and do I need the miniupnp to build the 3.25 repo?
262 2011-09-02 08:09:02 <SomeoneWeird> afaik yes
263 2011-09-02 08:09:07 <Matth1a3> ok thanks
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266 2011-09-02 08:15:49 <Matth1a3> and for boost - I shouldn't use MPI?
267 2011-09-02 08:16:09 <Matth1a3> sorry for the noob questions, haven't done this in a while
268 2011-09-02 08:21:31 <Matth1a3> i promise to make an instructional video for the other noobs
269 2011-09-02 08:24:07 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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271 2011-09-02 08:29:46 <SomeoneWeird> no idea
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273 2011-09-02 08:36:30 spin0 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
274 2011-09-02 08:43:38 <Matth1a3> so after all of that I try sudo make -f makefile.unix bitcoind and I get "net.cpp:48:15 pnodeLocalHost was declared extern and later static" @ net.h:476:15 and a similar error with net.cpp:51:15 hlistensocket
275 2011-09-02 08:46:16 <SomeoneWeird> no idea, havn't compiled .25
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294 2011-09-02 10:02:54 <UukGoblin> ugh... http://pastebin.com/T8yND5n0 <- these 4 trades seem wrong...
295 2011-09-02 10:03:06 <UukGoblin> same exchange rate, same amount, 4 different currencies?
296 2011-09-02 10:03:45 <ThomasV> UukGoblin: yeah, the same problem is on bitcoincharts
297 2011-09-02 10:04:05 <UukGoblin> ah, ok
298 2011-09-02 10:04:28 d33tah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
299 2011-09-02 10:04:40 <ThomasV> someone should tell b7 about it
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316 2011-09-02 11:19:06 <EskimoBob> Hi, can I export transactions to a file from a wallet? csv is fine
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319 2011-09-02 11:34:39 <SomeoneWeird> dunno, try with wallet tools or something
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418 2011-09-02 13:08:10 gavinandresen has joined
419 2011-09-02 13:09:30 <gavinandresen> Good morning everybody.
420 2011-09-02 13:09:40 <UukGoblin> good afternoon :-)
421 2011-09-02 13:10:16 <UukGoblin> someone should start an RFC to define some timezone-agnostic greetings
422 2011-09-02 13:12:04 <edcba> in fact it is always morning on irc
423 2011-09-02 13:12:15 <UukGoblin> edcba, proof?
424 2011-09-02 13:12:26 <edcba> it's already some standard
425 2011-09-02 13:12:31 <gavinandresen> I thought it was always 2AM on IRC
426 2011-09-02 13:12:33 <edcba> wait i have to find that again
427 2011-09-02 13:12:42 <gavinandresen> I guess that is morning
428 2011-09-02 13:12:56 <UukGoblin> "good 2am everybody"
429 2011-09-02 13:13:17 <gavinandresen> Anybody want to help me debug the bitcoin hard-coded-seed-node code?
430 2011-09-02 13:13:26 <edcba> http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
431 2011-09-02 13:13:34 <gavinandresen> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/484
432 2011-09-02 13:14:30 <UukGoblin> edcba, hahah, nice
433 2011-09-02 13:14:36 <UukGoblin> "Your ass will be laminated"
434 2011-09-02 13:15:21 m86 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
435 2011-09-02 13:15:37 <gavinandresen> Good morning (ugt) everyone
436 2011-09-02 13:16:40 <UukGoblin> the RFC doesn't mention what to use in the reply
437 2011-09-02 13:17:02 <rasengan> Morning Gavin
438 2011-09-02 13:17:06 <rasengan> :)
439 2011-09-02 13:17:09 Guest21171 is now known as disq
440 2011-09-02 13:17:12 <UukGoblin> I mean, if it was morning when I joined the channel, and I've been here for several weeks, is it like 6pm now, or more like 8pm?
441 2011-09-02 13:17:26 m86 has joined
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443 2011-09-02 13:17:40 <UukGoblin> gavinandresen, what kind of testing do you want to do there?
444 2011-09-02 13:17:41 disq is now known as Guest49184
445 2011-09-02 13:18:54 <gavinandresen> I'm hoping somebody more familiar with the bitcoin networking code than me, or somebody else who can read Satoshi-code, can help me figure out why it doesn't seem to be working for me.
446 2011-09-02 13:19:07 <gavinandresen> "it" being seeding via hard-coded pnSeed list
447 2011-09-02 13:19:13 <gavinandresen> (with an empty addr.dat)
448 2011-09-02 13:19:35 <UukGoblin> I tried upgrading to latest git + forrestv's getmemorypool today, but I rolled it back because I got a "*** glibc detected *** ./bitcoind: mall
449 2011-09-02 13:19:38 <UukGoblin> oc(): smallbin double linked list corrupted: 0x0000000005dad5a0 ***"
450 2011-09-02 13:19:58 <UukGoblin> gavinandresen, ah... I thought you were the main satoshi-reader here ;-]
451 2011-09-02 13:20:12 <gavinandresen> UukGoblin: always good to fly with a wing-man
452 2011-09-02 13:20:31 denisx has joined
453 2011-09-02 13:20:38 <gavinandresen> (and I try to ignore the networking stuff, but I keep getting sucked into it)
454 2011-09-02 13:21:08 <UukGoblin> there is something dodgy in the connection code indeed, I recall my friend having issues getting it to connect... starts up, gets one connection and a few blocks, then drops down to 0, sometimes goes up to 1 for a short period
455 2011-09-02 13:22:33 <UukGoblin> just a guess here, but the problem might be that the master node is dropping/refusing the connection
456 2011-09-02 13:23:09 <gavinandresen> Sure. But picking the same seed every time is wrong... question is what's the best way to fix it
457 2011-09-02 13:23:58 surikator has quit (Quit: surikator)
458 2011-09-02 13:24:03 <Matth1a3> iterate? =P jk
459 2011-09-02 13:25:19 <gavinandresen> ... I THINK the code calls AddAddress with the seed-node addresses... and I THINK it chooses which node(s) to connect to based on a priority score that is the last time they were seen... so I think setting a random "last time seen" will have the effect I want
460 2011-09-02 13:26:32 <UukGoblin> sounds... ugly
461 2011-09-02 13:31:38 <Matth1a3> anyone care to help me get set up with a build environment to test these commits? maybe I shouldn't be trying it with Ubuntu?
462 2011-09-02 13:31:39 <Matth1a3> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=40899.msg498776#msg498776
463 2011-09-02 13:34:02 PhilBert has joined
464 2011-09-02 13:35:41 <gavinandresen> Matth1a3: did you try 'make clean' ?
465 2011-09-02 13:35:58 baz_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
466 2011-09-02 13:37:38 <Matth1a3> gavinandresen: i just did, it returned - no rule to make target 'clean'. Stop.
467 2011-09-02 13:37:47 <gavinandresen> make -f makefile.unix clean
468 2011-09-02 13:39:14 <Matth1a3> so far so good. i wonder if commenting out those two definitions in net.h will mess me up though
469 2011-09-02 13:40:09 <Matth1a3> nvm same errors - just took longer
470 2011-09-02 13:40:41 <gavinandresen> you sure you're up-to-date with git head?
471 2011-09-02 13:40:47 d1g1t4l has joined
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474 2011-09-02 13:42:37 <Matth1a3> ah nope, maybe that's why - i just downloaded the bitcoin-bitcoin v0.3.24rc3-0-ge94010b.zip
475 2011-09-02 13:43:41 somuchwin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
476 2011-09-02 13:44:26 <gavinandresen> ... downloaded from where? that filename doesn't look familiar to me
477 2011-09-02 13:44:42 <Matth1a3> from github
478 2011-09-02 13:44:56 c00w has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
479 2011-09-02 13:45:01 <Matth1a3> there is a button on the upper right that says downloads on the source tab
480 2011-09-02 13:45:51 d1g1t4l has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
481 2011-09-02 13:45:55 <gavinandresen> I never poked that button on github. Cool!
482 2011-09-02 13:46:31 <Matth1a3> haha, that explains why my builds never worked like a month ago when I was really confused and gave up
483 2011-09-02 13:46:59 <Matth1a3> i think some others might be running into the same... 'issue' - should I make a ticket?
484 2011-09-02 13:47:29 <gavinandresen> yes, please
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488 2011-09-02 13:57:22 <SomeoneWeird> gavinandresen, Matth1a3 those downloads aren't normally up to date
489 2011-09-02 13:57:37 <SomeoneWeird> well, they are, but sometimes they lag behind
490 2011-09-02 13:58:03 <gavinandresen> If they don't work, we should figure out how to turn them off at github
491 2011-09-02 13:58:51 <gavinandresen> afk for a while
492 2011-09-02 13:58:56 <Matth1a3> turning them off encourages git anyways
493 2011-09-02 13:58:59 <Matth1a3> so i'm for lit
494 2011-09-02 13:59:01 <Matth1a3> it*
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502 2011-09-02 14:19:52 <makomk> Hmmmmm. IXcoin appears to be broken in a really interesting way and I'm trying to figure out if it's applicable to Bitcoin.
503 2011-09-02 14:21:09 <makomk> Its creator has managed to fork the network into two non-communicating halves by changing pchMessageStart. The older half has a longer blockchain than the newer.
504 2011-09-02 14:21:31 ForceMajeure has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
505 2011-09-02 14:21:52 <makomk> Despite the fact that the older half's longer blockchain is AFAICT considered valid by the newer client, I can't get it to propagate to the newer half.
506 2011-09-02 14:22:03 dlb76 has joined
507 2011-09-02 14:23:16 <phantomcircuit> makomk, that is adorable
508 2011-09-02 14:24:39 <SomeoneWeird> hahahaha
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513 2011-09-02 14:30:41 <makomk> Oh, and the newer client definitely considers the longer blockchain valid.
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515 2011-09-02 14:35:27 <Matth1a3> i don't understand why discussion of alternate clients is allowed in here - this is #bitcoin-dev...
516 2011-09-02 14:37:39 <Matth1a3> maybe we need #bitcoin-altdev for them, haha
517 2011-09-02 14:38:24 <Matth1a3> them as in the alternate clients, not the developers
518 2011-09-02 14:38:39 <makomk> I suspect whatever's happening might apply to Bitcoin under the right circumstances.
519 2011-09-02 14:40:06 <SomeoneWeird> yah
520 2011-09-02 14:40:14 <makomk> Just how special-cased is the inital block transfer?
521 2011-09-02 14:40:23 <SomeoneWeird> what makomk was discussing could affect bitcoin
522 2011-09-02 14:40:27 <SomeoneWeird> if im reading right
523 2011-09-02 14:42:16 <Matth1a3> what's your affiliation with ixcoin?
524 2011-09-02 14:43:35 <makomk> Don't have one, was just looking into it out of curiousity.
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526 2011-09-02 14:44:15 <Matth1a3> sorry if I come off as rude, I kind of view alternate clients as a get rich quick scheme
527 2011-09-02 14:45:25 <makomk> Think of them as a demonstration of what not to do. For example, I0coin demonstrated the importance of correct synchronization in distributed systems by using time() in its difficulty calculation and failing completely.
528 2011-09-02 14:45:25 <UukGoblin> Matth1a3, attempts at that...
529 2011-09-02 14:45:31 <UukGoblin> I hope they don't actually get that rich ;-P
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531 2011-09-02 14:46:26 <Matth1a3> haha
532 2011-09-02 14:48:11 <Matth1a3> the parallels of IXcoin are pretty funny though
533 2011-09-02 14:48:19 <Matth1a3> now that I'm looking at the site
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540 2011-09-02 14:58:10 <wumpus> Matth1a3zzzz: you mean 'alternative block chains'.. there is nothing wrong with alternative clients for the main blockchain, and those are certainly not a get rick quick scheme :p
541 2011-09-02 15:01:45 <BitterTea> I don't think there's anything wrong with alternative blockchains in general
542 2011-09-02 15:01:52 <BitterTea> for instance, Namecoin
543 2011-09-02 15:02:03 <log0s> and alternative blockchains aren't necessarily get rich quick schemes, although i'd say all of them that we've seen so far (except for namecoin) were probably created for that purpose
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545 2011-09-02 15:02:15 <gavinandresen> makomk: if you write a bridge node that relays with both the old and new messagestarts you'll probably get the longer, older block chain accepted
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550 2011-09-02 15:03:19 <UukGoblin> I'm happy to accept alternative blockchains as long as merged mining is implemented :-]
551 2011-09-02 15:03:34 <UukGoblin> (or there is a way to tie them into the main blockchain via a transaction or something)
552 2011-09-02 15:04:02 <gavinandresen> makomk: ... although actually it seems like running an old node with the longer blockchain, then upgrading it, should broadcast the longer chain, too...
553 2011-09-02 15:04:12 baggleboy has joined
554 2011-09-02 15:04:15 <makomk> gavinandresen: that's what I'd have thought, but...
555 2011-09-02 15:04:53 <gavinandresen> makomk: they changed the difficulty calculation after a certain block, right? That'll fork it
556 2011-09-02 15:05:07 <gavinandresen> (difficulty must match exactly, or you get a fork)
557 2011-09-02 15:05:31 kish has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
558 2011-09-02 15:05:35 <makomk> They will change the difficulty calculation after a certain block, but they haven't reached it yet.
559 2011-09-02 15:06:09 <makomk> (Also, difficulty matching is exact? Guess that's what sunk I0coin then...)
560 2011-09-02 15:06:51 <gavinandresen> Yes, nBits in the block header must match exactly.
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565 2011-09-02 15:10:04 <wumpus> BitterTea: agreed, there is nothing wrong in principle with them, it's just this recent madness and things like s****coin and all the childishness around them that is extrememly annoying
566 2011-09-02 15:10:07 <makomk> Hmmmm. Looks like all the nodes in my addr.dat now have the newer blockchain, anyway. (Connecting a second, clean-slate node to the first one using -addnode may have done the trick.)
567 2011-09-02 15:11:31 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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569 2011-09-02 15:13:57 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, the best solution is to run both networks in parallel and for newer clients to only accept transactions sent to both networks
570 2011-09-02 15:14:44 kish has joined
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572 2011-09-02 15:17:03 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn master * rbca179e / src/net.cpp :
573 2011-09-02 15:17:03 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Update the list of seednodes.
574 2011-09-02 15:17:03 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Nodes culled from MagicalTux's database of bitcoin nodes,
575 2011-09-02 15:17:03 <CIA-101> bitcoin: http://dump.bitcoin.it/misc/
576 2011-09-02 15:17:03 <CIA-101> bitcoin: by version and longevity, and tested for connectivity. - http://git.io/tgwLWA
577 2011-09-02 15:17:04 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r86fd7c5 / src/net.cpp : Give hard-coded seed nodes a random last-seen time, to randomize order they're tried. - http://git.io/fPXbSg
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619 2011-09-02 16:31:00 <gavinandresen> I wonder when the last time the hard-coded-seed-node was tested... it seems like it has been very broken for quite a while.
620 2011-09-02 16:31:32 <phantomcircuit> i fail to see the purpose of hard coded seed nodes
621 2011-09-02 16:31:47 <phantomcircuit> seems equally likely to get shut down as dns
622 2011-09-02 16:31:53 <phantomcircuit> maybe not
623 2011-09-02 16:32:04 <luke-jr> more likely
624 2011-09-02 16:32:07 erus` has joined
625 2011-09-02 16:32:10 <luke-jr> since IPs do change occasionally
626 2011-09-02 16:32:44 <phantomcircuit> i assume it's a static ip with a hosting provider
627 2011-09-02 16:32:49 <phantomcircuit> is it not?
628 2011-09-02 16:33:12 <luke-jr> even static IPs change every so often
629 2011-09-02 16:33:22 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * rfb45259 / src/main.cpp : Do not try to download blockchain from 0.3.23 nodes - http://git.io/RZAvIA
630 2011-09-02 16:33:22 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * rc591cc5 / src/util.cpp : If compiled -DDEBUG_LOCKORDER and run with -debug, print out every mutex lock/unlock (helpful for debugging something-is-holding-a-mutex-too-long problems) - http://git.io/2ln9XA
631 2011-09-02 16:33:23 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * rb53e277 / src/net.cpp : Stay connected to seed nodes; disconnecting causes problems if you are trying to make the initial blockchain download. - http://git.io/tOUkUA
632 2011-09-02 16:35:25 <kjj> I don't think that the hardcoded IP was ever intended as a way to fight a deliberate takedown, just as a last chance for a node that can't otherwise find a node to connect to
633 2011-09-02 16:35:27 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: the problem afaict is mostly that they run out of conn. slots, not really that they are dead (though a lot of them are)
634 2011-09-02 16:36:16 <kjj> and naturally, the problem isn't so much the nodes listed in the code today, as it is the nodes that were listed in the code a year ago
635 2011-09-02 16:36:18 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: why specifically 0.3.23, why not 0.3.20?-0.3.23?
636 2011-09-02 16:36:23 <BlueMatt> (the effected versions)
637 2011-09-02 16:37:02 agricocb has joined
638 2011-09-02 16:37:19 <gavinandresen> I thought only 0.3.23 had the problem... did I misremember?
639 2011-09-02 16:38:17 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: no, Im pretty sure the problem effects all versions with the limit code in them
640 2011-09-02 16:38:24 <BlueMatt> which is something like 0.3.20-0.3.23 iirc
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649 2011-09-02 16:45:57 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: you have a better memory than I do
650 2011-09-02 16:46:02 <gavinandresen> (and you're right)
651 2011-09-02 16:46:04 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: yes, it was introduced in 9cbae
652 2011-09-02 16:46:11 <BlueMatt> oh, I just went back to check... :)
653 2011-09-02 16:46:21 Strom has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
654 2011-09-02 16:46:23 <BlueMatt> anywho...
655 2011-09-02 16:46:55 MobiusL has joined
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657 2011-09-02 16:47:23 <gavinandresen> I'll make it: (pfrom->nVersion < 32000 || pfrom->nVersion >= 32400) &&
658 2011-09-02 16:47:34 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: what are the issues with disconnecting from seednodes?
659 2011-09-02 16:47:40 Silverpike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
660 2011-09-02 16:47:54 <BlueMatt> (I have a feeling keeping those connections and keeping people's connection slots full is not gonna be good)
661 2011-09-02 16:47:57 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: ... you connect to a seed node, then start downloading blocks.
662 2011-09-02 16:48:02 Silverpike has joined
663 2011-09-02 16:48:23 <kjj> crap. now I'm thinking of a node specailized to help with bootstrapping
664 2011-09-02 16:48:30 <gavinandresen> After you get 100 more messages, it would disconnect you, so you stop getting new blocks. And it takes a long time before the code
665 2011-09-02 16:48:38 <gavinandresen> decides to connect to somebody else to get blocks
666 2011-09-02 16:48:56 <gavinandresen> (100 more addresses, not messages)
667 2011-09-02 16:49:46 <BlueMatt> well Im not so sure its worth the minute it takes to find more addresses if you keep the connection to seednodes open?
668 2011-09-02 16:49:50 13WAAQW0I has joined
669 2011-09-02 16:50:12 64MAAGMSU has joined
670 2011-09-02 16:50:45 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, add a node type
671 2011-09-02 16:51:00 <BlueMatt> that seems overkill here
672 2011-09-02 16:51:14 <gavinandresen> Seed nodes running out of slots might have been the other bug I fixed this morning-- looks like they were always tried in the same order on everybody's machine.
673 2011-09-02 16:51:46 <BlueMatt> well its not just seednodes, its everyone
674 2011-09-02 16:51:55 <gavinandresen> what is everyone?
675 2011-09-02 16:51:59 <BlueMatt> (incl dnsseed returns, etc)
676 2011-09-02 16:52:07 <BlueMatt> the number of connectable nodes is very low
677 2011-09-02 16:52:18 <BlueMatt> and afaik its mostly because many, many people have their conn. slots full
678 2011-09-02 16:52:35 <luke-jr> in theory, we need 1/8 of nodes with open ports, right?
679 2011-09-02 16:52:41 <gavinandresen> That's a different bug...
680 2011-09-02 16:52:49 <luke-jr> OR some mechanism to ask closed-port nodes to reverse-connect
681 2011-09-02 16:53:07 <BlueMatt> but keeping connection slots open to fallback nodes could make it worse
682 2011-09-02 16:53:16 d1g1t4l has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
683 2011-09-02 16:53:31 <gavinandresen> I am seeing incoming connections from multiple nodes at either the same IP, or suspiciously-related-IPs
684 2011-09-02 16:53:37 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, 14.625:1
685 2011-09-02 16:53:40 <luke-jr> what if when a client rejects a new connection, it broadcasts a "this IP wants to connect" message to its own peers?
686 2011-09-02 16:53:45 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: well that is something else that needs fixed
687 2011-09-02 16:53:48 <phantomcircuit> 6.9%
688 2011-09-02 16:53:54 <luke-jr> and those either connect to it, or rebroadcast?
689 2011-09-02 16:54:08 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: yup
690 2011-09-02 16:54:11 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, doesn't help
691 2011-09-02 16:54:19 <luke-jr> fine. just implement IPv6 :p
692 2011-09-02 16:54:24 <phantomcircuit> you want 8 peers you choose
693 2011-09-02 16:54:47 <phantomcircuit> or at least think you chose :P
694 2011-09-02 16:54:47 <luke-jr> everyone has IPv6 by now, in theroy
695 2011-09-02 16:55:01 <phantomcircuit> almost nobody has ipv6 in practice though
696 2011-09-02 16:55:13 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: no?
697 2011-09-02 16:55:18 <luke-jr> every Windows 7 user is nobody?
698 2011-09-02 16:55:42 <phantomcircuit> lol
699 2011-09-02 16:55:57 <phantomcircuit> toredo servers get minimal traffic
700 2011-09-02 16:56:00 <BlueMatt> did we ever merge ipv6?
701 2011-09-02 16:56:14 <BlueMatt> no
702 2011-09-02 16:56:17 <BlueMatt> should we?
703 2011-09-02 16:56:25 <luke-jr> it might help
704 2011-09-02 16:56:30 <BlueMatt> though I suppose we are in feature freeze...
705 2011-09-02 16:56:34 <luke-jr> otoh, it might make the Teredo servers a target
706 2011-09-02 16:56:40 <gavinandresen> I want to get 0.4 out before merging more new features
707 2011-09-02 16:56:41 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: i mean after 0.4
708 2011-09-02 16:56:45 <BlueMatt> hmm...well I say ipv6 goes in as soon as 0.4.1
709 2011-09-02 16:56:58 <luke-jr> I thought the versioning was being fixed
710 2011-09-02 16:57:05 <luke-jr> as in, any new features after 0.4 are part of 0.5 :p
711 2011-09-02 16:57:07 <BlueMatt> to what?
712 2011-09-02 16:57:34 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: jgarzik is too adamantly against maintaining multiple branches
713 2011-09-02 16:57:42 <gavinandresen> me too
714 2011-09-02 16:57:43 <luke-jr> lame
715 2011-09-02 16:57:55 <luke-jr> the whole point of git is that it's easier to do that
716 2011-09-02 16:58:06 <gavinandresen> ... so maintain another branch...
717 2011-09-02 16:58:09 <BlueMatt> not really...
718 2011-09-02 16:59:18 <gavinandresen> If you're not willing to maintain another branch and keep it in sync with the next-release-branch, why would you expect jgarzik and I to?
719 2011-09-02 16:59:19 <luke-jr> anyhow, labelling 0.5+ right doesn't imply 0.4 has to be maintained
720 2011-09-02 16:59:39 <helo> git makes branching easier, but that doesn't mean it is a good idea
721 2011-09-02 16:59:44 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: there's no significant work in maintaining multiple branches if development is done properly
722 2011-09-02 16:59:59 <luke-jr> if it isn't done properly, then it's not practical for anyone to do
723 2011-09-02 17:00:12 <gavinandresen> Cool, go for it. I'm busy with higher priority stuff. Like debugging the networking code....
724 2011-09-02 17:00:32 * luke-jr suspects most development currently isn't done properly :P
725 2011-09-02 17:00:45 <luke-jr> as in, fixing the bug where it was introduced
726 2011-09-02 17:01:26 <luke-jr> [12:38:16] <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: yes, it was introduced in 9cbae
727 2011-09-02 17:01:45 <luke-jr> ^ in that case, the bugfix should have had 9cbae as a parent, and been merged to the current version(s)
728 2011-09-02 17:02:00 <BlueMatt> who cares?
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732 2011-09-02 17:04:06 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * rec74e8a / src/main.cpp : Versions 0.3.20 THROUGH 0.3.23 have trouble with blockchain downloads; avoid them - http://git.io/WKGnWg
733 2011-09-02 17:04:14 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, proper use of git? lol right
734 2011-09-02 17:04:37 Clipse has joined
735 2011-09-02 17:04:48 <gavinandresen> I freely admit I'm a git newbie, best-practice suggestions welcome.
736 2011-09-02 17:05:24 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: was fSeedUsed set in the case of dnsseed?
737 2011-09-02 17:05:52 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: no
738 2011-09-02 17:06:47 <andyroo> what is the characteristic of GF(2^m)?
739 2011-09-02 17:06:51 <luke-jr> hmm, the link I had seems to have broken images now
740 2011-09-02 17:07:39 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
741 2011-09-02 17:08:59 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: mmm, well ok, Im still not so sure its a good idea to drop those connections (maybe some better checking so that they will be dropped when new connections are made instead)
742 2011-09-02 17:09:10 <BlueMatt> s/drop/keep/
743 2011-09-02 17:09:27 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: seems to be a generic enough explanation: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Creating_a_version_control_repository#The_.22Daggy.22_Fix
744 2011-09-02 17:09:47 DukeOfURL has joined
745 2011-09-02 17:10:12 <gavinandresen> "unless of course a reorganization took place"
746 2011-09-02 17:10:17 <andyroo> gavinandresen: learn the rebase tool well, don't ever rebase something you've published
747 2011-09-02 17:10:29 <andyroo> and once you've got that, you can do whatever you want and undo it
748 2011-09-02 17:11:01 <andyroo> oh, and "git reflog" will give every commit HEAD has pointed to for the last couple months
749 2011-09-02 17:11:11 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: is that standard practice for git too, or just for svn or whatever?
750 2011-09-02 17:11:15 <andyroo> so if you really get lost, use that to roll back to a known good state
751 2011-09-02 17:11:31 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: aka does kernel do it?
752 2011-09-02 17:11:35 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: pretty much standard for DVCS, since it became possible
753 2011-09-02 17:11:42 <luke-jr> I don't know Linux kernel development much
754 2011-09-02 17:11:52 <luke-jr> it wasn't practical with CVS/Svn
755 2011-09-02 17:12:10 <gavinandresen> andyroo: thanks. I actually knew that much, I'm not a total newbie (and did read a book about git, which I should read again so it sinks in more)
756 2011-09-02 17:12:16 <BlueMatt> well kernel is essentially the "official" "best-practices" thing for git...
757 2011-09-02 17:12:29 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: or just ask jgarzik when you need to ;)
758 2011-09-02 17:12:39 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: well, this is "best-practices" for development in general :p
759 2011-09-02 17:12:49 <BlueMatt> meh
760 2011-09-02 17:12:51 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: that'd require people to stop git push -f'ing every fucking branch
761 2011-09-02 17:12:53 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: ugh
762 2011-09-02 17:12:57 <andyroo> gavinandresen: book was progit? use git a bit before reading it again
763 2011-09-02 17:13:04 <andyroo> it'll make far more sense
764 2011-09-02 17:13:05 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: ?
765 2011-09-02 17:13:31 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: everything you're talking about. BlueMatt/sipa/jgarzick ... all of them, they push -f constantly to their branches breaking everything
766 2011-09-02 17:13:40 <jrmithdobbs> ;p
767 2011-09-02 17:13:45 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: thats so stuff merges right
768 2011-09-02 17:13:49 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: me too, when I'm changing a commit :p
769 2011-09-02 17:13:58 <BlueMatt> if we didnt, stuff would hit merge conflicts all over the place
770 2011-09-02 17:14:03 <BlueMatt> (as the code is so intertwined)
771 2011-09-02 17:14:07 <jrmithdobbs> not if things were done right
772 2011-09-02 17:14:17 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: I'm talking strictly about bugfixes
773 2011-09-02 17:14:19 <BlueMatt> well that would require a code restructuring
774 2011-09-02 17:14:28 <luke-jr> features should be rebased when they need changes
775 2011-09-02 17:14:58 <andyroo> gavinandresen: NEVER do push -f; merge other's changes before rebasing, so all your pushes are fast-forwards
776 2011-09-02 17:15:08 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: whats left on the todo for 0.4?
777 2011-09-02 17:15:18 jtaylor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
778 2011-09-02 17:15:23 <andyroo> like so, for master: git fetch origin; git rebase master; git push origin master;
779 2011-09-02 17:15:24 <luke-jr> andyroo: that's for main trees only, not feature-branches :P
780 2011-09-02 17:15:39 <jrmithdobbs> andyroo: i've argued this so many times
781 2011-09-02 17:15:40 <luke-jr> O.o
782 2011-09-02 17:15:45 <BlueMatt> andyroo: no one does a push -f on master
783 2011-09-02 17:15:50 <andyroo> luke-jr: oh, okay.. on my project we keep feature-branches on our own remotes
784 2011-09-02 17:15:52 <BlueMatt> on feature branches, everyone does
785 2011-09-02 17:15:57 <BlueMatt> andyroo: as do we
786 2011-09-02 17:15:58 <andyroo> since there's usually one writer, many testers
787 2011-09-02 17:16:21 <BlueMatt> andyroo: we do the same, jrmithdobbs is complaining about push -fing on personal feature branches
788 2011-09-02 17:16:30 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: bump the version number and write the release notes. I wanted to get sipa's import/export privkey patch in, but I'd rather get 0.4 out sooner
789 2011-09-02 17:17:05 <jrmithdobbs> isn't .4 just wallet crypto without sipa's import/export?
790 2011-09-02 17:17:09 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: Im available to build all weekend (assuming Im sober...first football game of the season and monday off, so that might not be often...:)
791 2011-09-02 17:17:10 <gavinandresen> I'm probably forgetting something
792 2011-09-02 17:17:13 <jrmithdobbs> import/export was the useful feature supposed to be in .4
793 2011-09-02 17:17:36 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: and a ton of smaller fixes
794 2011-09-02 17:18:00 <jrmithdobbs> i don't think it's worth pushing out without import/export
795 2011-09-02 17:18:23 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: its worth pushing out for the many minor bugfixes in it
796 2011-09-02 17:18:50 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: such as?
797 2011-09-02 17:19:00 <gavinandresen> jrmithdobbs: I don't want to pull import/export before this: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/195
798 2011-09-02 17:19:13 <gavinandresen> ... and both need a rebase and lots of testing
799 2011-09-02 17:19:28 <jrmithdobbs> i did quite extensive testing on import/export a while back
800 2011-09-02 17:19:36 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: go look at git history...
801 2011-09-02 17:19:57 <luke-jr> I've also tested import
802 2011-09-02 17:20:13 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * r712077a / (4 files in 4 dirs):
803 2011-09-02 17:20:13 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Merge pull request #486 from TheBlueMatt/translatefix
804 2011-09-02 17:20:13 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Update binary mos to latest translations. - http://git.io/5XV7fg
805 2011-09-02 17:20:45 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: why don't you want to pull import/export without that conflict detect patch?
806 2011-09-02 17:20:55 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: import/export does a complete rescan after import
807 2011-09-02 17:21:12 devon_hillard has joined
808 2011-09-02 17:23:12 <gavinandresen> jrmithdobbs: because without the conflict detect I believe you can get into weird states where you have two wallets that both think they can spend coins that they can't. I think. I'd have to think about it harder than I want to right now
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810 2011-09-02 17:23:36 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: i was unable to create such a situation in my testing
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812 2011-09-02 17:23:51 <jrmithdobbs> because of the complete rescan after import
813 2011-09-02 17:24:18 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: no, I'm pretty sure that was fixed a while ago
814 2011-09-02 17:24:24 <jrmithdobbs> it was
815 2011-09-02 17:24:43 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: the problem only arises, I think, if they're on different networks or disconnected when they spend
816 2011-09-02 17:24:58 <jrmithdobbs> which happens with or without import/export
817 2011-09-02 17:25:14 <jrmithdobbs> if you don't rescan
818 2011-09-02 17:25:30 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: ...then that means we're ready today for 0.4-rc1
819 2011-09-02 17:25:52 13WAAQW0I has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
820 2011-09-02 17:26:02 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: don't really need release notes IMO, just to start getting it out there for power user testing
821 2011-09-02 17:26:06 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: I think so
822 2011-09-02 17:26:41 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: -rc1 through final release is for wider public testing. final code and doc details can be sorted out during that period, in parallel with wider testing.
823 2011-09-02 17:26:45 <jgarzik> IMO
824 2011-09-02 17:27:07 64MAAGMSU has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
825 2011-09-02 17:27:11 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: Matt's worried about a change I made this morning RE: hard-coded seed nodes
826 2011-09-02 17:27:33 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: nod -- but I don't see that as being a -rc1 blocker
827 2011-09-02 17:27:45 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: it's a tiny detail most people will never see
828 2011-09-02 17:27:57 <BlueMatt> would technically be a regression so could be reverted during -rc phase?
829 2011-09-02 17:28:32 <gavinandresen> yup, that was my thinking.
830 2011-09-02 17:28:32 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
831 2011-09-02 17:28:32 <BlueMatt> then Im down for pushing -rc1
832 2011-09-02 17:28:32 hahuang65 has joined
833 2011-09-02 17:28:35 <BlueMatt> see what gmaxwell says about it
834 2011-09-02 17:28:47 wardearia has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
835 2011-09-02 17:28:54 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: yep, anything we don't like can be reverted during -rc1
836 2011-09-02 17:28:57 baggleboy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
837 2011-09-02 17:29:21 <jgarzik> that's the purpose of -rc window: bug fixing, hammering out final details, slowing the churn and focusing people on making the release
838 2011-09-02 17:29:27 midnightsalzba has joined
839 2011-09-02 17:29:35 <jgarzik> focusing developers on bug fixing, focusing the community on testing, ...
840 2011-09-02 17:30:17 <BlueMatt> alright, Ill spin up the pre-build stuff (thanks devrandom for making the build take very little time after pre-build stuff is done)
841 2011-09-02 17:31:16 <gavinandresen> I'll bump version numbers (following doc/release-process.txt)
842 2011-09-02 17:31:32 <Optimo> gentlemen. have a wonderful weekend ;)
843 2011-09-02 17:32:14 <Optimo> (it's also labor day weekend in case you forgot)
844 2011-09-02 17:32:22 * Optimo did
845 2011-09-02 17:32:48 <BlueMatt> ahhh, kernel panic, wtf
846 2011-09-02 17:32:51 * BlueMatt blames jgarzik
847 2011-09-02 17:33:19 TD has joined
848 2011-09-02 17:33:31 <luke-jr> jgarzik: any comments on "daggy fixes" and whether Linux development is used to it?
849 2011-09-02 17:34:01 TD has quit (Client Quit)
850 2011-09-02 17:34:09 <gjs278> the only kernel panics I get are due to xhci and usb3
851 2011-09-02 17:34:21 <luke-jr> gjs278: â¦
852 2011-09-02 17:34:49 MobiusL_ has joined
853 2011-09-02 17:35:35 <BlueMatt> gjs278: I typically never get kernel panics...
854 2011-09-02 17:35:58 <luke-jr> I only get kernel panics when I try to unbind the audio driver :/
855 2011-09-02 17:35:59 <andyroo> i haven't had any since rootless X came around
856 2011-09-02 17:36:08 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: the process I followed during your remoting was basically to do all the bits of doc/release-process.txt except the actual builds, which I left to BlueMatt and/or sipa. In particular I thought the generation of the -src.tar.gz tarball should be done directly by a dev, rather than gitian, so I did that part. gitian produced all the other upload-able build targets.
857 2011-09-02 17:36:21 <gavinandresen> what is locale/eo/ ?
858 2011-09-02 17:36:30 <luke-jr> Esperanto?
859 2011-09-02 17:36:52 <gavinandresen> (asking because locale/eo/LC_MESSAGES/bitcoin.po:"Project-Id-Version: Bitcoin 0.3.22\n" )
860 2011-09-02 17:37:57 MobiusL has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
861 2011-09-02 17:38:23 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: esperanto; project-id-version is sorta "last updated since version blah" if you choose to use it. each translation has its own style there, but I wouldn't update it, instead letting the translator update it if they wish.
862 2011-09-02 17:39:54 TheAncientGoat has joined
863 2011-09-02 17:42:10 baggleboy has joined
864 2011-09-02 17:42:17 baggleboy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
865 2011-09-02 17:43:11 [Tycho] has joined
866 2011-09-02 17:43:36 baggleboy has joined
867 2011-09-02 17:43:42 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r7464e64 / (7 files in 4 dirs): Bumped version numbers to 0.4.0rc1 - http://git.io/BD9Bew
868 2011-09-02 17:43:56 wardearia has joined
869 2011-09-02 17:45:59 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: btw, did anyone ever merge my fixes?
870 2011-09-02 17:46:12 <luke-jr> or fix the generate-doesn't-show-account-names issue?
871 2011-09-02 17:46:15 <gavinandresen> I knew I was forgetting something....
872 2011-09-02 17:46:20 <vsrinivas> gavinandresen: before 0.4.0, would it be possible to look at / merge the patch on the mailing list that defines MSG_NOSIGNAL if not present?
873 2011-09-02 17:46:29 <vsrinivas> it enables bitcoin from master to build on OpenBSD.
874 2011-09-02 17:47:17 <BlueMatt> vsrinivas: I thought that was merged?
875 2011-09-02 17:47:24 * luke-jr has made some reminder remarks at least a few times here in the last few days :P
876 2011-09-02 17:47:30 [Tycho] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
877 2011-09-02 17:47:30 <gavinandresen> vsrinivas luke-jr : pull requests at github make it much harder for stuff like that to slip between the cracks. My email box is very full these days
878 2011-09-02 17:47:43 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: you know I don't tolerate GitHub's TOS ;P
879 2011-09-02 17:48:03 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: I know, so recruit somebody to make a pull request for you
880 2011-09-02 17:48:03 <vsrinivas> BlueMatt: haven't seen that. DragonFly BSD support patches were, not this one...
881 2011-09-02 17:48:08 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: unwillingness to join GitHub is by far not an excuse
882 2011-09-02 17:48:23 <vsrinivas> sorry, didn't use github; thought patches to mailing list were okay.
883 2011-09-02 17:48:31 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: sorry, I don't have unlimited $ to commit to their unreasonable terms
884 2011-09-02 17:48:33 d33tah has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
885 2011-09-02 17:48:36 <BlueMatt> vsrinivas: they typically are...
886 2011-09-02 17:48:45 <gavinandresen> afk for a while, gotta eat lunch before a phone meeting....
887 2011-09-02 17:48:58 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: wanna make GitHub PULLs for some of mine? ;p
888 2011-09-02 17:50:07 <luke-jr> git://gitorious.org/~Luke-Jr/bitcoin/luke-jr-bitcoin.git base58_liberal_parsing bugfix_getwork_newblk_race rpc_keepalive bugfix_CreateThread_leak gitignore getwork_dedupe
889 2011-09-02 17:50:28 <luke-jr> maybe also txinfo
890 2011-09-02 17:53:20 malaimo_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
891 2011-09-02 17:53:20 malaimo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
892 2011-09-02 17:53:45 <copumpkin> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=40934.0
893 2011-09-02 17:53:48 <copumpkin> that is fucked
894 2011-09-02 17:53:52 <copumpkin> anyone know what channel it was in?
895 2011-09-02 17:54:29 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: you spammer! :P
896 2011-09-02 17:54:57 <BlueMatt> hahahaha
897 2011-09-02 17:55:02 <copumpkin> that Geebus guy is pissing me off almost more than BenDavis
898 2011-09-02 17:55:26 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, ?
899 2011-09-02 17:55:43 <copumpkin> phantomcircuit: what channel was that?
900 2011-09-02 17:55:55 <phantomcircuit> bitcoinpool
901 2011-09-02 17:56:07 <phantomcircuit> im fairly certain the operator of bitcoinpool is the guys friend
902 2011-09-02 17:56:11 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: 512 transactions is spam :P
903 2011-09-02 17:56:20 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, oh lol
904 2011-09-02 17:56:25 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: also, your statements are wrong AFAIK
905 2011-09-02 17:56:27 <phantomcircuit> yeah it cost like 1 BTC in fees to sent too
906 2011-09-02 17:56:34 <luke-jr> [04:52] <phantomcircuit> BenDavis, just an fyi spending funds which were erroneously sent to you is legally the same as simple theft
907 2011-09-02 17:56:55 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, it is i can even tell you the relevant code in the oregon penal code
908 2011-09-02 17:57:04 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: IANAL, but I'm pretty sure you have no legal obligation to return something you were sent
909 2011-09-02 17:57:21 <luke-jr> at least with tangible items, if someone sends you it accidentally, you can legally just keep it
910 2011-09-02 17:58:04 <luke-jr> Geebus is in Oregon?
911 2011-09-02 17:58:28 <phantomcircuit> yes
912 2011-09-02 17:58:37 <phantomcircuit> bitcoinpool.com is hosted on a residential ISP
913 2011-09-02 17:58:47 <luke-jr> I don't see him saying he spent them either, so I wouldn't be so quick to accuse him
914 2011-09-02 17:58:56 <phantomcircuit> he did spend them
915 2011-09-02 17:59:00 <phantomcircuit> he sold them on mtgox
916 2011-09-02 17:59:14 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vtmiMvqow4UJ:www.leg.state.or.us/ors/164.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a
917 2011-09-02 17:59:26 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: tl;dr
918 2011-09-02 17:59:30 <luke-jr> which part?
919 2011-09-02 17:59:30 <phantomcircuit> 164.015 ÂTheft described. A person commits theft when, with intent to deprive another of property or to appropriate property to the person or to a third person, the person:
920 2011-09-02 17:59:31 <phantomcircuit> (2) Commits theft of property lost, mislaid or delivered by mistake as provided in ORS 164.065;
921 2011-09-02 17:59:32 midnightsalzba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
922 2011-09-02 17:59:51 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: you fucked up, get over it
923 2011-09-02 18:00:03 <copumpkin> o.O
924 2011-09-02 18:00:04 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, no
925 2011-09-02 18:00:07 pusle has joined
926 2011-09-02 18:00:38 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: I concur with your interpretation.
927 2011-09-02 18:00:50 <copumpkin> it's common sense
928 2011-09-02 18:01:01 <luke-jr> 164.065 Theft of lost, mislaid property. A person who comes into control of property of another that the person knows or has good reason to know to have been lost, mislaid or delivered under a mistake as to the nature or amount of the property or the identity of the recipient, commits theft if, with intent to deprive the owner thereof, the person fails to take reasonable measures to restore the property to the owner. [1971 c.743
929 2011-09-02 18:01:02 <copumpkin> all this "bitcoin isn't a recognized currency and thus has no value" stuff people keep spewing is bullshit
930 2011-09-02 18:01:02 <luke-jr> §126]
931 2011-09-02 18:01:03 <luke-jr> fwiw
932 2011-09-02 18:01:06 <copumpkin> if someone steals bitcoins, it's theft
933 2011-09-02 18:01:10 <copumpkin> it may not be currency, but it's still theft
934 2011-09-02 18:01:23 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: so you sent someone btc accidentally and you want him to return it?
935 2011-09-02 18:01:39 <copumpkin> BlueMatt: I'm amazed you think that's unreasaonble
936 2011-09-02 18:01:45 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, due to a technical error he was over paid
937 2011-09-02 18:01:54 <phantomcircuit> he knew where it came from
938 2011-09-02 18:01:57 <BlueMatt> legally, phantomcircuit is right, reasonably get over it
939 2011-09-02 18:01:57 <phantomcircuit> he knew it wasn't his
940 2011-09-02 18:02:06 <Diablo-D3> copumpkin: except Ive been saying that since day one
941 2011-09-02 18:02:09 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: 511 BTC is a lot
942 2011-09-02 18:02:11 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, no
943 2011-09-02 18:02:22 <phantomcircuit> im not going to just get over it
944 2011-09-02 18:02:32 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: I presume you've talked to MagicalTux?
945 2011-09-02 18:02:37 <copumpkin> http://www.austinchronicle.com/columns/2005-12-02/315676/
946 2011-09-02 18:02:49 <copumpkin> and inform the sender that you reserve the right to keep the merchandise if they fail to respond in that time period.
947 2011-09-02 18:02:54 DukeOfURL has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0.1/20110830092941])
948 2011-09-02 18:02:57 <copumpkin> "failing to notify the sender or the intended customer could make you liable for criminal or civil theft. Criminal theft can cost you fines and/or jail time, depending on the value of the property"
949 2011-09-02 18:03:00 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: 511 BTC is enough that it could warrant a lawsuit
950 2011-09-02 18:03:10 <copumpkin> that's some fairly substantial money
951 2011-09-02 18:03:17 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, yes he wasn't able to help with stopping him but he does have records of where the funds went
952 2011-09-02 18:03:18 <copumpkin> if it were a handful of btc
953 2011-09-02 18:03:24 <copumpkin> or even the 20 btc I got scammed out of the other day
954 2011-09-02 18:03:26 <copumpkin> I'd say fuck it
955 2011-09-02 18:03:28 <BlueMatt> 4000$ for an exchange
956 2011-09-02 18:03:32 <BlueMatt> that should be nothing
957 2011-09-02 18:03:38 <copumpkin> BlueMatt: you're naive?
958 2011-09-02 18:03:42 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, we dont have any feels
959 2011-09-02 18:03:45 <phantomcircuit> fees*
960 2011-09-02 18:03:48 <copumpkin> the only exchanges that make any money here are mtgox and tradehill
961 2011-09-02 18:03:59 <BlueMatt> ah, well than thats your fault...
962 2011-09-02 18:04:04 <phantomcircuit> ...
963 2011-09-02 18:04:06 <copumpkin> wtf
964 2011-09-02 18:04:30 Gekz has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
965 2011-09-02 18:04:33 <BlueMatt> you dont make money, great running charity is good for bitcoin, thanks
966 2011-09-02 18:04:43 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: did you threaten to sue, and mention that legal costs may double his liability?
967 2011-09-02 18:04:51 Gekz has joined
968 2011-09-02 18:04:59 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, he clearly has no intention to give them back
969 2011-09-02 18:05:15 <phantomcircuit> he's under the mistaken impression that since they are bitcoins he cannot be liable
970 2011-09-02 18:05:34 <copumpkin> phantomcircuit: do you know his identity at all?
971 2011-09-02 18:05:34 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: bet he'd chicken out if he got a letter from a lawyer
972 2011-09-02 18:05:44 <phantomcircuit> i know who he is exactly
973 2011-09-02 18:05:44 <copumpkin> is BenDavis a real name?
974 2011-09-02 18:05:46 <copumpkin> ah
975 2011-09-02 18:05:50 <copumpkin> then I say set a legal precedent :P
976 2011-09-02 18:05:59 <copumpkin> it'd shut the pseudolawyers up around here
977 2011-09-02 18:06:03 <luke-jr> ^
978 2011-09-02 18:06:11 <phantomcircuit> im going to give him another few hours before contacting local police
979 2011-09-02 18:06:16 <luke-jr> if you know he has the funds to pay up, skip the threat and sue :P
980 2011-09-02 18:06:24 <BlueMatt> legally you can sue him, realistically, you coded the site wrong which is your fault, whether the law disagrees or now
981 2011-09-02 18:06:30 <phantomcircuit> i was giving him a chance
982 2011-09-02 18:06:40 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: the legal precedence is worth the lawsuit IMO
983 2011-09-02 18:06:51 <cjdelisle> +1
984 2011-09-02 18:06:52 <phantomcircuit> he's chosen to be unreasonable
985 2011-09-02 18:06:57 <luke-jr> legal precedence at a theft's expense = nice
986 2011-09-02 18:07:07 <luke-jr> theif's*
987 2011-09-02 18:07:24 <BlueMatt> unreasonable? if someone accidentally sends you bitcoin because you cant code, thats not stealing by my definition
988 2011-09-02 18:07:37 pumpkin has joined
989 2011-09-02 18:07:42 pumpkin has quit (Changing host)
990 2011-09-02 18:07:42 pumpkin has joined
991 2011-09-02 18:07:44 <pumpkin> I really preferred BlueMatt before reading this conversation. Pity I can't unread
992 2011-09-02 18:07:52 * luke-jr will gladly write poor code for donations :P
993 2011-09-02 18:07:59 huk has joined
994 2011-09-02 18:08:00 pumpkin is now known as copumpkin_
995 2011-09-02 18:08:28 <luke-jr> copumpkin_: would you really prefer to remain ignorant anyway?
996 2011-09-02 18:08:50 <copumpkin_> no, I just wish he hadn't turned out to be like this :P
997 2011-09-02 18:08:55 <BlueMatt> morally, yea he should send it back, but if he chooses not to, thats still your fault, you sent him money
998 2011-09-02 18:09:05 <cjdelisle> Realisticly, telling the police is a coin toss. They might care, they might not. Shopping around for a lawyer is probably a much better deal.
999 2011-09-02 18:09:24 copumpkin has quit (Disconnected by services)
1000 2011-09-02 18:09:27 copumpkin_ is now known as copumpkin
1001 2011-09-02 18:09:35 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: worst case they don't care, and you get a lawyer then?
1002 2011-09-02 18:09:48 <cjdelisle> makes enough sense
1003 2011-09-02 18:09:59 gothicwomong has joined
1004 2011-09-02 18:10:57 <BlueMatt> also, I have no sympathy here, people always complaining about mtgox's poor coding get whats coming if they miscode
1005 2011-09-02 18:11:23 kish has quit (Quit: leaving)
1006 2011-09-02 18:11:46 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I'm sure MtGox will be pursuing legal action when/if they find the thief
1007 2011-09-02 18:12:00 <BlueMatt> quite possibly, I have no illusions that most people would here
1008 2011-09-02 18:12:23 kish has joined
1009 2011-09-02 18:13:16 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, <phantomcircuit> [13:28:40] MagicalTux, lol i think i'll be a little bit easier on everybody else from now on....
1010 2011-09-02 18:13:19 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, kthx
1011 2011-09-02 18:13:58 BitterTea has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1012 2011-09-02 18:14:07 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: wrt what?
1013 2011-09-02 18:15:30 Quetzalcoatl_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1014 2011-09-02 18:16:00 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, from a little while ago
1015 2011-09-02 18:16:10 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: he said that wrt what?
1016 2011-09-02 18:16:36 <phantomcircuit> i said that
1017 2011-09-02 18:17:48 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: he said that wrt your miscoding?
1018 2011-09-02 18:17:58 <phantomcircuit> facepalm
1019 2011-09-02 18:18:15 <jgarzik> facepalm of the day: p2pool does not include transactions in the blocks it builds
1020 2011-09-02 18:18:27 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: what?
1021 2011-09-02 18:18:28 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, i said that too him
1022 2011-09-02 18:18:40 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: Im sorry, I cant read
1023 2011-09-02 18:18:49 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: p2pool works on a coinbase, and that's it. -never- are any user created transactions included in p2pool's generated blocks.
1024 2011-09-02 18:19:08 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ...wow
1025 2011-09-02 18:19:15 <vsrinivas> hrm, really? wow.
1026 2011-09-02 18:19:15 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: well fair enough
1027 2011-09-02 18:19:27 AStove has joined
1028 2011-09-02 18:20:55 <luke-jr> wtf
1029 2011-09-02 18:21:23 <midnightmagic> phantomcircuit: wow dude what channel was that log in?
1030 2011-09-02 18:21:57 <luke-jr> jgarzik: I guess the only thing worse would be accepting the fee'd transactions and discarding the fees entirely
1031 2011-09-02 18:22:21 <phantomcircuit> midnightmagic, what?
1032 2011-09-02 18:22:29 <phantomcircuit> oh
1033 2011-09-02 18:22:32 <phantomcircuit> #bitcoinpool
1034 2011-09-02 18:22:59 <midnightmagic> is that a real pool? he is an owner or sysop of that pool?
1035 2011-09-02 18:23:00 <phantomcircuit> the operator of which geebus appears to be affiliated with this bendavis guy although he denies it
1036 2011-09-02 18:23:17 <phantomcircuit> bendavis was +o in there at some point
1037 2011-09-02 18:23:26 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
1038 2011-09-02 18:23:47 <cjdelisle> I would say that phantom was negligent and in cases involving negligence where the victim suffers embarassement and damage to reputation, this is probably just. Note that USA v. Spitler & Auernheimer disagrees. In this case there is significant losses of a fungibal asset which is much more serious than mere reputational damage.
1039 2011-09-02 18:23:48 Guest55762 is now known as disq
1040 2011-09-02 18:24:17 disq is now known as Guest17156
1041 2011-09-02 18:24:36 <phantomcircuit> cjdelisle, i have no doubt that we are in the right legally
1042 2011-09-02 18:24:38 <phantomcircuit> none
1043 2011-09-02 18:25:19 <cjdelisle> Unfortunately your name not being AT&T may limit the FBI's interest in the matter since they are busy protecting their own reputation against Anonymous.
1044 2011-09-02 18:25:40 <midnightmagic> amazing.. just amazing. honestly i am of the opinion that it is straight up theft..
1045 2011-09-02 18:27:45 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1046 2011-09-02 18:28:44 <midnightmagic> it is clear some people might still be sore about the way you arrived in here many months ago (mocking satoshi's bad code)
1047 2011-09-02 18:29:13 TheAncientGoat has joined
1048 2011-09-02 18:29:30 <phantomcircuit> midnightmagic, yeah well
1049 2011-09-02 18:29:35 <phantomcircuit> call it like i see it
1050 2011-09-02 18:29:37 kish has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
1051 2011-09-02 18:29:52 <midnightmagic> i just have one suggestion for you phantomcircuit: no more threats of physical violence or barratry
1052 2011-09-02 18:30:08 <phantomcircuit> i made no threat
1053 2011-09-02 18:30:18 <phantomcircuit> *none*
1054 2011-09-02 18:30:49 <midnightmagic> you were talking about showing up at his door. there's an implied threat there, especially when you're talking about dude's kids
1055 2011-09-02 18:31:22 <midnightmagic> that's not cool. always leave someone's kids out of it real or not.
1056 2011-09-02 18:31:24 Daniel0108 has joined
1057 2011-09-02 18:31:36 <phantomcircuit> i merely was making it clear i knew who he was
1058 2011-09-02 18:31:48 <phantomcircuit> there's like 50 ben johnson's in that part of oregon
1059 2011-09-02 18:32:25 <phantomcircuit> if i was threatening him i would have made that very explicit
1060 2011-09-02 18:32:49 <midnightmagic> just saying judge's don't like to rule in favour of people who say stuff like that
1061 2011-09-02 18:33:20 <midnightmagic> anyway i hope you get your btc back, that's a damn raw deal man
1062 2011-09-02 18:34:29 <midnightmagic> and i'll tell you one thing, i'll never do any business with anyone who has admitted they'd keep the coins after a mistake like that
1063 2011-09-02 18:36:36 <makomk> jgarzik: including transactions in blocks is quite expensive from what I can tell; I'd imagine that skipping them makes mining a lot more efficient.
1064 2011-09-02 18:36:54 <jgarzik> makomk: define "expensive"?
1065 2011-09-02 18:36:57 <phantomcircuit> lold
1066 2011-09-02 18:37:07 <jgarzik> makomk: I'm not sure you know how mining works
1067 2011-09-02 18:37:13 <makomk> Requires quite a lot of computation.
1068 2011-09-02 18:37:27 <jgarzik> makomk: computation is the same regardless of block size, in the mining process
1069 2011-09-02 18:37:41 <jgarzik> makomk: miners mine 80-byte block header, over and over again
1070 2011-09-02 18:37:43 <luke-jr> makomk: it's not that bad
1071 2011-09-02 18:37:49 <makomk> jgarzik: *in the mining process*, which is GPU accelerated.
1072 2011-09-02 18:37:58 <vsrinivas> remember what is being hashed in mining;
1073 2011-09-02 18:38:00 <jgarzik> makomk: read what I just wrote
1074 2011-09-02 18:38:10 <luke-jr> makomk: the one time it matters-- when prevblock changes-- there are generally no transactions to include
1075 2011-09-02 18:39:25 <makomk> If I remember how p2pool works correctly, it essentially creates a difficulty-1 blockchain of some kind of its own?
1076 2011-09-02 18:40:07 <luke-jr> makomk: no
1077 2011-09-02 18:41:01 <luke-jr> if anyone wants, I'd appreciate reviews of http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/w/pushpool/luke-jr.git/commitdiff/491a232178a3de087b4d516d1050cb4d4dca1835
1078 2011-09-02 18:41:05 clr_ has joined
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1080 2011-09-02 18:41:28 <makomk> I'm pretty sure I'm right; every time a miner in the p2pool pool creates a share every other miner has to start work on a new block.
1081 2011-09-02 18:41:37 <upb> lol @ fuckup
1082 2011-09-02 18:42:35 <luke-jr> makomk: you don't work on blocks
1083 2011-09-02 18:42:38 <luke-jr> makomk: you find them
1084 2011-09-02 18:42:49 <luke-jr> makomk: you're checking a "new block" millions of times every second
1085 2011-09-02 18:44:14 <makomk> luke-jr: you know what I mean; every time a miner in p2pool finds a share, the other miners have to generate a new merkle tree and start looking for a valid share based on that tree.
1086 2011-09-02 18:44:56 <luke-jr> makomk: afaik it tolerates a delay in updating
1087 2011-09-02 18:45:02 <luke-jr> so it has no practical problem
1088 2011-09-02 18:45:06 <luke-jr> p2pool's real problems are different :p
1089 2011-09-02 18:45:12 <gmaxwell> updating the coinbase is dirt cheap.
1090 2011-09-02 18:45:31 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: it could be cheaper. :p
1091 2011-09-02 18:45:36 <makomk> gmaxwell: really? Last time I looked the client appeared to recompute the entire Merkle tree every time.
1092 2011-09-02 18:45:39 <luke-jr> but it doesn't matter here
1093 2011-09-02 18:45:53 <gmaxwell> makomk: which is dirt cheap, and it doesn't have to do that.
1094 2011-09-02 18:46:02 <gmaxwell> There is no time limit on it.
1095 2011-09-02 18:46:38 <gmaxwell> You could keep a GPU going with a PDP-11 so long as the miner fetched one work unit ahead
1096 2011-09-02 18:46:54 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: generating new merkle trees is slow enough to take seconds making LP work
1097 2011-09-02 18:46:57 <makomk> You'd get a lot of stales doing that.
1098 2011-09-02 18:47:06 <gmaxwell> makomk: no you wouldn't.
1099 2011-09-02 18:47:08 <luke-jr> makomk: no, because the old ones aren't stale
1100 2011-09-02 18:47:27 <makomk> Ah, p2pool doesn't have stale shares then?
1101 2011-09-02 18:47:38 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1102 2011-09-02 18:47:58 <forrestv> makomk, p2pool does have stale shares
1103 2011-09-02 18:48:11 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: I've long suspected there is some interesting bug there. I can do something like 1M SHA256/s with plain basic C code, there is no reason the tree update should take as long as it does.
1104 2011-09-02 18:48:22 Gekz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1105 2011-09-02 18:48:26 <forrestv> and you're right - the coinbase transaction and merkle tree is recomputed upon every new share
1106 2011-09-02 18:49:43 <forrestv> jgarzik, 'p2pool does not include transactions in the blocks it builds' was true four days ago, but no longer is
1107 2011-09-02 18:50:10 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: my approach has been to avoid getwork altogheter :P
1108 2011-09-02 18:50:27 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1109 2011-09-02 18:50:28 <jgarzik> forrestv: and that change is deployed to all participants?
1110 2011-09-02 18:50:59 <forrestv> jgarzik, only the ones that have upgraded and patched their bitcoind
1111 2011-09-02 18:51:04 <forrestv> which is the majority of the hashpower on p2pool
1112 2011-09-02 18:51:56 <andyroo> what linker flags do i need for i2d_ECPrivateKey and friends?
1113 2011-09-02 18:52:03 c00w has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1114 2011-09-02 18:56:34 wtfman has joined
1115 2011-09-02 18:57:10 <wtfman> hey, my pool is still at block 143667, but blockexplorer.com is already at 143770
1116 2011-09-02 18:57:31 <wtfman> what can that issue be? oO
1117 2011-09-02 18:58:43 <kinlo> you're not patient enough?
1118 2011-09-02 18:58:57 <kinlo> it can take 10-20 min for just a few 100 blocks to come in
1119 2011-09-02 18:58:58 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1120 2011-09-02 19:04:58 <jgarzik> forrestv: if blocks are truly including transactions, then yes, that resolves my objection
1121 2011-09-02 19:08:44 c00w has joined
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1123 2011-09-02 19:11:31 Gekz has quit (Changing host)
1124 2011-09-02 19:11:31 Gekz has joined
1125 2011-09-02 19:15:36 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1126 2011-09-02 19:16:23 BTCTrader is now known as BTC_away
1127 2011-09-02 19:20:53 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1128 2011-09-02 19:21:19 Quetzalcoatl_ has joined
1129 2011-09-02 19:21:52 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1130 2011-09-02 19:21:52 <lfm> wtfman: What version bitcoin(d) do you have? how many connections do you have?
1131 2011-09-02 19:23:13 pusle has quit ()
1132 2011-09-02 19:23:37 <wtfman> version 0.3.24 with ~140 connections
1133 2011-09-02 19:23:37 <lfm> ;;bc,blocks
1134 2011-09-02 19:23:37 <gribble> 143672
1135 2011-09-02 19:24:02 <lfm> wtfman block explorer lied to you?
1136 2011-09-02 19:24:12 <wtfman> no :>
1137 2011-09-02 19:24:16 <lfm> ok
1138 2011-09-02 19:24:20 <wtfman> i dont know. my server somehow lost track
1139 2011-09-02 19:24:33 <lfm> how long has it been lost?
1140 2011-09-02 19:24:44 <wtfman> only a couple of mins till i noticed
1141 2011-09-02 19:24:54 <wtfman> also ppl had connection issues, but not all
1142 2011-09-02 19:25:17 <lfm> if it isnt straightened out in 30 min then do a restart, if that doesnt fix it then worry
1143 2011-09-02 19:25:24 Guest17156 is now known as disq
1144 2011-09-02 19:25:33 <wtfman> i restarted already, now it works again, but lets see for how long
1145 2011-09-02 19:25:37 <gavinandresen> I'm thinking this: http://pastebin.com/ZfcT7jV2 ... might be a really good idea. Makes downloading the block-chain up to the last checkpoint much, much faster
1146 2011-09-02 19:25:42 <wtfman> maybe it couldnt handle the load .. not sure
1147 2011-09-02 19:25:54 disq is now known as Guest7156
1148 2011-09-02 19:26:29 <lfm> wtfman: Ya I had torouble with about 150 connections too. I started using -maxconnect 50
1149 2011-09-02 19:26:51 <lfm> -maxconnections=50
1150 2011-09-02 19:27:24 [DusT]1 has joined
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1163 2011-09-02 20:00:45 Xunie` has joined
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1165 2011-09-02 20:07:23 ThomasV has joined
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1167 2011-09-02 20:13:11 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: A day without sunshine is like .... night)
1168 2011-09-02 20:14:34 <copumpkin> phantomcircuit: any news from the asshole?
1169 2011-09-02 20:14:47 <phantomcircuit> none
1170 2011-09-02 20:15:02 <phantomcircuit> also it's labor day so i doubt contacting the police at this time will have any effect
1171 2011-09-02 20:15:44 <ThomasV> copumpkin: who's that ?
1172 2011-09-02 20:19:45 Xunie` has joined
1173 2011-09-02 20:20:28 <phantomcircuit> copumpkin, he finally realized i had friended him with a fake account and posted on his wall
1174 2011-09-02 20:20:36 Gekz has joined
1175 2011-09-02 20:20:41 <copumpkin> lol nice
1176 2011-09-02 20:20:45 <copumpkin> what'd you post?
1177 2011-09-02 20:21:04 <copumpkin> does he have a twitter account?
1178 2011-09-02 20:21:18 <copumpkin> we could try shaming him there
1179 2011-09-02 20:21:19 <phantomcircuit> he had posted that he legally earned 4000$ in 15 minutes
1180 2011-09-02 20:21:24 <phantomcircuit> i made it clear that he had not
1181 2011-09-02 20:21:35 <copumpkin> wow
1182 2011-09-02 20:21:38 <copumpkin> so he openly admits it
1183 2011-09-02 20:21:38 <phantomcircuit> yeah trying to shame him
1184 2011-09-02 20:21:44 <phantomcircuit> i doubt it'll work though
1185 2011-09-02 20:21:47 <copumpkin> any twitter?
1186 2011-09-02 20:21:54 <phantomcircuit> not one that he uses
1187 2011-09-02 20:21:58 <phantomcircuit> yeah he thinks it's legal because it's bitcoins
1188 2011-09-02 20:22:02 <phantomcircuit> he's delusional
1189 2011-09-02 20:22:47 <copumpkin> the fact that he had ops in the channel
1190 2011-09-02 20:22:53 <copumpkin> probably meant that he was friends with the other ashsole
1191 2011-09-02 20:23:02 <gmaxwell> Whats the story here?
1192 2011-09-02 20:23:16 <copumpkin> gmaxwell: phantomcircuit accidentally sent 511 coins to this guy, who ran off and sold them all
1193 2011-09-02 20:23:21 <copumpkin> and then preached about how it was legal to do that
1194 2011-09-02 20:23:26 <gmaxwell> 0_o
1195 2011-09-02 20:23:34 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: how'd you manage that?
1196 2011-09-02 20:23:40 <phantomcircuit> broken script
1197 2011-09-02 20:23:54 <copumpkin> phantomcircuit: you could get mtgox to bail you out :)
1198 2011-09-02 20:24:32 <phantomcircuit> actually he tried to help but couldn't
1199 2011-09-02 20:24:37 <phantomcircuit> well he helped some
1200 2011-09-02 20:24:37 <gmaxwell> well you certantly should tell the relevant exchanges that you intend to take legal action against the asshole, see if they'll freeze the account.
1201 2011-09-02 20:24:48 <phantomcircuit> the guy definitely sold them using mtgox and send them out via dwolla
1202 2011-09-02 20:24:54 <copumpkin> his name is Ben Davis?
1203 2011-09-02 20:25:01 <phantomcircuit> his name is ben johnson
1204 2011-09-02 20:25:11 <phantomcircuit> possibly by marriage??
1205 2011-09-02 20:25:14 <gmaxwell> Where does he live?
1206 2011-09-02 20:25:18 <phantomcircuit> oregon
1207 2011-09-02 20:25:41 <copumpkin> I guess you should avoid giving out all the info you have about him in public
1208 2011-09-02 20:25:49 <copumpkin> but I'd be curious to see it in private
1209 2011-09-02 20:25:53 <copumpkin> :P
1210 2011-09-02 20:26:13 <gmaxwell> If it wasn't >3000 mi away I'd offer to go knock on his door.
1211 2011-09-02 20:26:37 <phantomcircuit> i wouldn't suggest that either way
1212 2011-09-02 20:26:43 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1213 2011-09-02 20:26:47 <phantomcircuit> he has 2 handguns and a .22 mp5
1214 2011-09-02 20:26:48 <copumpkin> yeah, you don't want him turning around and saying you're harassing him
1215 2011-09-02 20:26:51 <copumpkin> lol wtf
1216 2011-09-02 20:26:51 <phantomcircuit> and is clearly irrational
1217 2011-09-02 20:26:56 Guest7156 is now known as disq
1218 2011-09-02 20:27:26 disq is now known as Guest2171
1219 2011-09-02 20:27:36 <copumpkin> was the pseudolegal bullshit op dude in the log the guy who runs the pool?
1220 2011-09-02 20:27:59 <copumpkin> Geebus
1221 2011-09-02 20:28:00 <copumpkin> I guess so
1222 2011-09-02 20:28:02 <phantomcircuit> yes
1223 2011-09-02 20:28:07 <gmaxwell> I didn't think rifels were legal in oregon.
1224 2011-09-02 20:30:14 <copumpkin> does he have an OTC account?
1225 2011-09-02 20:30:32 <b4epoche> contact the bitcoin police ;-)
1226 2011-09-02 20:30:43 Gekz has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
1227 2011-09-02 20:30:51 <b4epoche> they seem to be a crack team of investigators
1228 2011-09-02 20:35:50 <gmaxwell> note: crack team and crack headed team are not the same thing.
1229 2011-09-02 20:36:14 <copumpkin> I wish I could help somehow
1230 2011-09-02 20:36:26 <copumpkin> this thing almost pisses me off more than the guy who scammed me
1231 2011-09-02 20:36:46 c00w has joined
1232 2011-09-02 20:38:42 <luke-jr> 0.4rc1 got a tgz yet?
1233 2011-09-02 20:38:45 da2ce7 has quit ()
1234 2011-09-02 20:38:54 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i dont believe so
1235 2011-09-02 20:39:06 * b4epoche wonders if the bitcoin police has any muscle working for them
1236 2011-09-02 20:39:16 Quetzalcoatl_ has left ("Leaving")
1237 2011-09-02 20:39:19 <copumpkin> we definitely need baseball bats for btc hire
1238 2011-09-02 20:39:52 <phantomcircuit> no no
1239 2011-09-02 20:40:07 <copumpkin> :)
1240 2011-09-02 20:40:10 <copumpkin> I know, I know
1241 2011-09-02 20:40:12 <phantomcircuit> the only harm that should come to this asshole is hard time
1242 2011-09-02 20:40:14 coblee has quit (Quit: coblee)
1243 2011-09-02 20:40:22 <b4epoche> maybe a DDoS bat?
1244 2011-09-02 20:40:22 Gekz has joined
1245 2011-09-02 20:40:30 <helo> heh
1246 2011-09-02 20:40:36 <copumpkin> I don't think vigilantism is a good idea, really :P
1247 2011-09-02 20:40:43 <copumpkin> especially if you do have his real identity
1248 2011-09-02 20:40:47 <phantomcircuit> interesting
1249 2011-09-02 20:40:48 <copumpkin> just send the real law after him
1250 2011-09-02 20:40:48 <b4epoche> where's that botnet dude when you need him?
1251 2011-09-02 20:40:51 <phantomcircuit> he posted
1252 2011-09-02 20:40:55 <copumpkin> oh?
1253 2011-09-02 20:41:10 <phantomcircuit> "FAKE!!!!!!" on this fake facebook profiles wall
1254 2011-09-02 20:41:16 <phantomcircuit> and has since deleted it
1255 2011-09-02 20:41:28 <copumpkin> lol
1256 2011-09-02 20:41:28 coblee has joined
1257 2011-09-02 20:41:34 <phantomcircuit> maybe one of his more intelligent friends warned him that what he's doing actually is a crime
1258 2011-09-02 20:41:39 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1259 2011-09-02 20:41:40 <copumpkin> he sounds like a really bright dude
1260 2011-09-02 20:41:58 <copumpkin> phantomcircuit: are you in the US?
1261 2011-09-02 20:42:08 <phantomcircuit> not at the moment
1262 2011-09-02 20:42:11 <copumpkin> it might be more of a pain to report a crime from outside
1263 2011-09-02 20:42:15 <copumpkin> ah
1264 2011-09-02 20:42:15 <phantomcircuit> it's going to massively complicate reporting it
1265 2011-09-02 20:42:18 <phantomcircuit> yeah
1266 2011-09-02 20:42:26 <b4epoche> http://gawker.com/5836484/police-now-consulting-urban-dictionary-to-get-inside-heads-of-perps-who-want-to-murk-them
1267 2011-09-02 20:42:33 <kjj> honestly, it looks like the guy that got the coins could be facing jail time if the pool operator calls the local cops
1268 2011-09-02 20:42:40 <b4epoche> is he that stupid?
1269 2011-09-02 20:42:42 <copumpkin> kjj: the pool operator won't
1270 2011-09-02 20:42:47 <copumpkin> did you see his crap?
1271 2011-09-02 20:42:50 <copumpkin> I think they might be friends
1272 2011-09-02 20:42:52 <luke-jr> kjj: that would be a good precedent
1273 2011-09-02 20:43:00 <luke-jr> copumpkin: it doesn't have to be the poolop
1274 2011-09-02 20:43:05 <copumpkin> oh I know
1275 2011-09-02 20:43:07 <kjj> the internet lawyers have silly ideas
1276 2011-09-02 20:43:12 <copumpkin> I just meant that the pool operator won't do it
1277 2011-09-02 20:43:21 <copumpkin> because he's got some rather questionable legal opinions himself
1278 2011-09-02 20:43:47 <kjj> the courts really don't care what was stolen. they just care that it was
1279 2011-09-02 20:44:19 <kjj> the county attorney would argue that it was a bank error, which you can't keep. the defense would argue that it was unsolicited mail, which you can
1280 2011-09-02 20:44:33 <copumpkin> you could steal a random piece of paraphernalia that has zero market value but deep sentimental value to the victim
1281 2011-09-02 20:44:37 <copumpkin> it's still a crime :)
1282 2011-09-02 20:44:48 <b4epoche> haven't police investigated Second Life, et al. thefts?
1283 2011-09-02 20:44:49 <kjj> I'm pretty sure that a judge or jury would call it a bank error, and not junk mail
1284 2011-09-02 20:44:59 Gekz has quit (Client Quit)
1285 2011-09-02 20:45:13 <copumpkin> even as far as erroneous mail goes
1286 2011-09-02 20:45:16 <phantomcircuit> copumpkin, yes but not a serious one
1287 2011-09-02 20:45:18 <copumpkin> you're not screwed
1288 2011-09-02 20:45:38 <copumpkin> I linked an article earlier that explained what happens if you accidentally mail something to the wrong person
1289 2011-09-02 20:45:40 <phantomcircuit> sentimental value is explicitly not countable in court
1290 2011-09-02 20:46:24 <copumpkin> that still doesn't mean you get to go stealing my whole collection of women's panties
1291 2011-09-02 20:46:32 <copumpkin> oh, whoops
1292 2011-09-02 20:46:34 <copumpkin> did I say that?
1293 2011-09-02 20:46:36 <kjj> keep in mind that this isn't something with sentimental value, it is an ownership interest in an asset with an exchange value of over $4,000
1294 2011-09-02 20:46:38 * copumpkin looks shifty-eyed
1295 2011-09-02 20:47:20 <kjj> in most places, that is felony grand theft, complete with state prison, loss of civil rights, etc
1296 2011-09-02 20:47:21 <phantomcircuit> kjj, precisely
1297 2011-09-02 20:47:23 <lfm> kjj bitcoins?
1298 2011-09-02 20:47:55 <phantomcircuit> according to my obviously non lawyer opinion the sentencing guidelines for this crime is minimum 30 months
1299 2011-09-02 20:48:25 <kjj> if I was the recipient, I would send it back, like yesterday. having a local deputy show up at your door for it would mean a very bad day
1300 2011-09-02 20:48:37 <phantomcircuit> i gave him the benefit of the doubt (in emails sent previously)
1301 2011-09-02 20:48:42 <phantomcircuit> i even told him it was a crime
1302 2011-09-02 20:48:43 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: jgarzik: 0.4 source.tar.gz?
1303 2011-09-02 20:48:54 <phantomcircuit> but he clearly has no interest in returning it
1304 2011-09-02 20:49:03 <phantomcircuit> so i think it's time to throw the book at him
1305 2011-09-02 20:49:05 <kjj> oh, and it totally looks like the pool operator was acting like a tool. doesn't matter much if it hits court, but still
1306 2011-09-02 20:49:06 <phantomcircuit> (not literally)
1307 2011-09-02 20:49:36 <phantomcircuit> kjj, the ip of bitcoinpool.com traces back to the same area as ben johnson's
1308 2011-09-02 20:51:12 x11 has quit ()
1309 2011-09-02 20:51:31 x11 has joined
1310 2011-09-02 20:52:29 <copumpkin> phantomcircuit: how did BenDavis even get ops?
1311 2011-09-02 20:52:42 <kjj> I really don't like it that every fuckup in bitcoin is now assumed to be a scam
1312 2011-09-02 20:53:04 x11 has quit (Client Quit)
1313 2011-09-02 20:53:04 <phantomcircuit> copumpkin, im not sure he had them when i joined
1314 2011-09-02 20:54:07 <kjj> you know what's really funny? the pool operator doesn't need to pursue it. the state has an interest in prosecuting grand theft that doesn't depend on whether or not the victim wants justice
1315 2011-09-02 20:55:02 andyroo has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5)
1316 2011-09-02 20:56:12 x11 has joined
1317 2011-09-02 20:58:21 <phantomcircuit> kjj, funds were not stolen from the pool operator
1318 2011-09-02 20:58:30 <phantomcircuit> kjj, but from me and company
1319 2011-09-02 20:58:47 <phantomcircuit> he was merely commenting on past experience (which i suspect was actualyl a series of lies)
1320 2011-09-02 20:58:50 <kjj> I'll be honest, I haven't been following it in detail
1321 2011-09-02 20:59:28 <kjj> but if you know where he lives, and have reasonably good evidence that he had them in his wallet at some time, make the call
1322 2011-09-02 21:00:26 <kjj> unless the local PD is really tiny, they will have an investigator that does computer stuff, or they are part of a multijurisdiction group that includes one
1323 2011-09-02 21:00:31 <wtfman> Geebus has 500 bitcoins?
1324 2011-09-02 21:01:59 <phantomcircuit> kjj, i would but it's labor day weekend and i seriously doubt they would give a shit
1325 2011-09-02 21:02:13 <kjj> oh, yeah. not today. Tuesday
1326 2011-09-02 21:02:18 <phantomcircuit> but i definitely will be doing so
1327 2011-09-02 21:02:35 Xunie` has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1328 2011-09-02 21:02:36 <wtfman> Geebus runs bitcoinpool.com
1329 2011-09-02 21:02:53 <phantomcircuit> yes he does
1330 2011-09-02 21:03:06 <wtfman> that fits to my opinion about that pool :p
1331 2011-09-02 21:03:26 <kjj> today, you are trying to get your WOW gold back and no one cares. on Tuesday, it is felony grand theft.
1332 2011-09-02 21:03:37 <kjj> in their eyes, anyway
1333 2011-09-02 21:04:02 Strom- has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1334 2011-09-02 21:04:09 <phantomcircuit> kjj, pretty much
1335 2011-09-02 21:04:15 <copumpkin> anyone in #bitcoinpool?
1336 2011-09-02 21:04:33 EskimoBob has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1337 2011-09-02 21:04:38 <phantomcircuit> yes
1338 2011-09-02 21:04:45 <phantomcircuit> 34 users
1339 2011-09-02 21:04:47 <phantomcircuit> and me
1340 2011-09-02 21:04:54 <phantomcircuit> in disguise
1341 2011-09-02 21:04:56 <phantomcircuit> ish
1342 2011-09-02 21:05:22 sytse has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1343 2011-09-02 21:05:52 <wtfman> now in it too
1344 2011-09-02 21:06:54 <wtfman> i think geebus is also a girl
1345 2011-09-02 21:07:29 <phantomcircuit> oh
1346 2011-09-02 21:07:32 <copumpkin> geebus is also from portland
1347 2011-09-02 21:07:34 <phantomcircuit> i bet i know who it is too
1348 2011-09-02 21:07:35 brisket is now known as donmai-
1349 2011-09-02 21:07:35 <copumpkin> or their IP is
1350 2011-09-02 21:07:44 donmai- is now known as currynrice
1351 2011-09-02 21:07:50 <wtfman> the ops are married or something, or a couple
1352 2011-09-02 21:07:53 <phantomcircuit> one of his friends sent threatening private messages on facebook
1353 2011-09-02 21:08:01 <copumpkin> oh?
1354 2011-09-02 21:08:04 <phantomcircuit> yeah
1355 2011-09-02 21:08:05 <copumpkin> you should save those
1356 2011-09-02 21:08:07 <wtfman> they have the pool running at home broadband connection
1357 2011-09-02 21:08:08 <copumpkin> and report them to facebook
1358 2011-09-02 21:08:09 <phantomcircuit> let me find the screenshot
1359 2011-09-02 21:08:23 <kjj> yeah, save them. but don't get dragged into it
1360 2011-09-02 21:08:40 <copumpkin> wtfman: what makes you think it's a female, by the way?
1361 2011-09-02 21:08:45 <kjj> just focus on the felony charges first.
1362 2011-09-02 21:08:55 iocor has joined
1363 2011-09-02 21:09:05 <luke-jr> just mine on Eligius ;)
1364 2011-09-02 21:09:07 <wtfman> afai remeber the pool operators are married or a couple
1365 2011-09-02 21:09:13 <wtfman> so one of them I assume is female
1366 2011-09-02 21:09:15 <copumpkin> nooooo
1367 2011-09-02 21:09:19 <copumpkin> then you're signing prayers!! ;)
1368 2011-09-02 21:09:26 <copumpkin> it's condoning catholicism!!
1369 2011-09-02 21:09:54 <wtfman> as long as they are only prayers
1370 2011-09-02 21:10:05 <luke-jr> copumpkin: no trolling allowed
1371 2011-09-02 21:10:06 <wtfman> imagine they would be hands that touch you naughty
1372 2011-09-02 21:10:09 <phantomcircuit> "Hide behind your fb all you want you will be found and eliminated"
1373 2011-09-02 21:10:14 <phantomcircuit> yeah i think that constitutes a threat
1374 2011-09-02 21:10:17 <copumpkin> luke-jr: I'm just mocking the people making a big deal about it :)
1375 2011-09-02 21:10:21 <luke-jr> copumpkin: :P
1376 2011-09-02 21:10:34 <imsaguy> jebus
1377 2011-09-02 21:10:35 <luke-jr> copumpkin: people might think you're serious without more :Ps
1378 2011-09-02 21:10:39 <copumpkin> oh, sorry
1379 2011-09-02 21:10:42 <lfm> luke-jr seems you are the one trolling the block chain
1380 2011-09-02 21:10:47 <imsaguy> lol
1381 2011-09-02 21:10:52 <imsaguy> trololol
1382 2011-09-02 21:10:54 <copumpkin> I don't mean about half of what I say
1383 2011-09-02 21:10:55 <luke-jr> lfm: no u
1384 2011-09-02 21:10:55 <copumpkin> on IRC
1385 2011-09-02 21:11:13 <imsaguy> winning!
1386 2011-09-02 21:11:17 <luke-jr> lfm: quit crying because I mail paychecks with Christian stamps
1387 2011-09-02 21:11:31 <imsaguy> not Christian
1388 2011-09-02 21:11:32 <lfm> not crying, laughing
1389 2011-09-02 21:11:34 <imsaguy> Catholic.
1390 2011-09-02 21:11:53 <luke-jr> imsaguy: no difference
1391 2011-09-02 21:11:53 sytse has joined
1392 2011-09-02 21:11:58 <imsaguy> slightly
1393 2011-09-02 21:12:01 <luke-jr> none :P
1394 2011-09-02 21:12:11 <imsaguy> when a person says Christian, people tend to think more watered down.
1395 2011-09-02 21:12:17 <lfm> imsaguy don't you know? there is only one true church
1396 2011-09-02 21:12:20 <luke-jr> imsaguy: generally, no
1397 2011-09-02 21:12:24 <imsaguy> says you
1398 2011-09-02 21:12:28 <copumpkin> anyway
1399 2011-09-02 21:12:32 roconnor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1400 2011-09-02 21:12:35 <imsaguy> lfm, duh
1401 2011-09-02 21:12:36 <copumpkin> sorry to have gotten us into this convo
1402 2011-09-02 21:12:37 <luke-jr> imsaguy: admittedly, more ignorant people tend to assume it INCLUDES watered down
1403 2011-09-02 21:12:42 <copumpkin> we were talking about phantomcircuit's situation
1404 2011-09-02 21:12:46 <Namegduf> Haha
1405 2011-09-02 21:12:47 <luke-jr> but certainly not exclusively watered down
1406 2011-09-02 21:12:56 <luke-jr> copumpkin: why? this is -dev
1407 2011-09-02 21:13:03 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit's stuff should be in -police :P
1408 2011-09-02 21:13:08 <copumpkin> oh, true
1409 2011-09-02 21:13:08 <imsaguy> it is quasi related to bitcoin
1410 2011-09-02 21:13:13 <copumpkin> -dev is for religion only!
1411 2011-09-02 21:13:15 <copumpkin> :D
1412 2011-09-02 21:13:16 <luke-jr> imsaguy: but this isn't #bitcoin
1413 2011-09-02 21:13:18 <imsaguy> lol
1414 2011-09-02 21:13:19 <luke-jr> it's #bitcoin-dev
1415 2011-09-02 21:13:27 <luke-jr> I don't see how phantomcircuit's problem is dev
1416 2011-09-02 21:13:34 <imsaguy> well then we should write better code to prevent trolls
1417 2011-09-02 21:13:34 <Namegduf> To say something should be in -police suggests that -police is anything but a terrible joke
1418 2011-09-02 21:13:40 <lfm> ya, as a bitcoin question, do we want spam in coinbase txn?
1419 2011-09-02 21:13:44 <Namegduf> I feel I should clarify this matter
1420 2011-09-02 21:13:46 <imsaguy> now its all magically better luke-jr :p
1421 2011-09-02 21:13:50 <luke-jr> Namegduf: well, no reaosn to talk about it anymore IMO
1422 2011-09-02 21:14:00 <luke-jr> lfm: it's not spam, it's designed for text
1423 2011-09-02 21:14:11 <imsaguy> so is email, doesn't mean it doesn't have spam
1424 2011-09-02 21:14:30 <lfm> one person's spam is anothers prayers
1425 2011-09-02 21:14:39 <luke-jr> lfm: anyhow, liek I said, quit trolling
1426 2011-09-02 21:14:48 <imsaguy> one persons viagra is another persons fortune from south africa
1427 2011-09-02 21:15:12 <lfm> so, as a bitcoin question, do we want spam in coinbase txn?
1428 2011-09-02 21:15:40 Incitatus has joined
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1430 2011-09-02 21:16:54 <lfm> if we condone (thru lack of action) Lukes spam/prayers, we will have little basis for any other uses of coinbase
1431 2011-09-02 21:17:33 <luke-jr> lfm: I don't spam
1432 2011-09-02 21:17:42 <luke-jr> lfm: don't slander me
1433 2011-09-02 21:17:51 <lfm> yes, I know, you prefer to call them prayers or some such
1434 2011-09-02 21:18:07 <luke-jr> lfm: coinbases were already condoned long before I put prayers in
1435 2011-09-02 21:18:22 <lfm> oh? how long before?
1436 2011-09-02 21:18:26 <luke-jr> Block 1
1437 2011-09-02 21:18:30 <luke-jr> or 0, if you start at 0
1438 2011-09-02 21:18:52 <lfm> that was a cryptological time stamp
1439 2011-09-02 21:18:56 <luke-jr> nonsense
1440 2011-09-02 21:19:40 datagutt has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1441 2011-09-02 21:19:40 <Namegduf> What does "cryptological" mean?
1442 2011-09-02 21:19:49 <Namegduf> Anything to do with "cryptographic"? :P
1443 2011-09-02 21:19:56 <imsaguy> oh man
1444 2011-09-02 21:20:02 <imsaguy> perhaps this is better for -politics
1445 2011-09-02 21:20:10 <lfm> Namegduf: sorry ya.
1446 2011-09-02 21:20:15 <imsaguy> this channel is publicly logged
1447 2011-09-02 21:21:10 <luke-jr> imsaguy: no worries, I'm not going to respond to his troll anymore
1448 2011-09-02 21:21:12 <lfm> Im just asking, would/should we put any restrictions on what we accept in the coinbase "text" fields?
1449 2011-09-02 21:21:24 <Namegduf> lfm: The question you should be asking is "can"
1450 2011-09-02 21:21:28 <Namegduf> And the answer is "no"
1451 2011-09-02 21:21:58 <lfm> Namegduf: Actually it owuld be pretty easy to add code to restrict for instance the size of those fields
1452 2011-09-02 21:22:15 <Namegduf> lfm: At which point you would become incompatible with the rest of the bitcoin network
1453 2011-09-02 21:22:26 <luke-jr> lfm: the size is already restricted
1454 2011-09-02 21:22:32 <luke-jr> it's quite small
1455 2011-09-02 21:22:49 <luke-jr> wait, responding again
1456 2011-09-02 21:22:51 <lfm> if the majority of the clients/miners agree, it would be pretty hard to buck the trend really
1457 2011-09-02 21:22:52 * luke-jr changes tab
1458 2011-09-02 21:23:17 EskimoBob has joined
1459 2011-09-02 21:23:19 Strom has joined
1460 2011-09-02 21:23:25 <Namegduf> lfm: Yes, you can do that to replace the existing bitcoin standard with a new, incompatible one.
1461 2011-09-02 21:23:38 <lfm> luke-jr it is restricted? SOrry, I didn't know that. what size is the limit at?
1462 2011-09-02 21:23:50 <luke-jr> Namegduf: we should do that someday, to improve things :p
1463 2011-09-02 21:24:23 <Namegduf> It's very likely to happen. But that lets you do anything. It doesn't let you apply restrictions within bitcoin.
1464 2011-09-02 21:24:34 <Namegduf> The only way you can do it is by entirely redefining what bitcoin is.
1465 2011-09-02 21:24:51 <Namegduf> To permit people to do something technically and then to deride them for it being stupid
1466 2011-09-02 21:25:24 <lfm> Namegduf: huh? there are lots of restriction already on arbitrary sizes and whatnot, this would seem to be a minor one
1467 2011-09-02 21:25:33 <imsaguy> luke-jr, I agree with forking
1468 2011-09-02 21:25:37 <imsaguy> but perhaps sporking instead
1469 2011-09-02 21:25:54 <Namegduf> lfm: Firstly, you said "restrict", which implies "in some meaningful, not already done way"
1470 2011-09-02 21:26:06 hugolp has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
1471 2011-09-02 21:26:10 <lfm> imsaguy sporking? spork was a sister product to spam wasn't it?
1472 2011-09-02 21:26:15 <imsaguy> no
1473 2011-09-02 21:26:20 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
1474 2011-09-02 21:26:24 <imsaguy> a spork is a combination fork/spoon
1475 2011-09-02 21:26:31 <luke-jr> lol
1476 2011-09-02 21:26:42 <luke-jr> imsaguy: don't feed the troll
1477 2011-09-02 21:26:46 <Namegduf> lfm: Secondly, minor or not, it is *not already present in bitcoin, and the protocol provides no way to add such without breaking compatibility*
1478 2011-09-02 21:26:50 <imsaguy> rather than change everything at once, you do micro changes
1479 2011-09-02 21:26:57 <imsaguy> so people can remain compatible for a time
1480 2011-09-02 21:27:01 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1481 2011-09-02 21:27:06 <Namegduf> That's not how protocols work.
1482 2011-09-02 21:27:17 <imsaguy> especially considering you're talking about 'money'
1483 2011-09-02 21:27:37 <Namegduf> Incompatibility has relatively little to do with "size" of changes.
1484 2011-09-02 21:27:51 karnac has joined
1485 2011-09-02 21:27:54 <luke-jr> imsaguy: erm, that's backward
1486 2011-09-02 21:27:55 <Namegduf> Larger tends to make it harder to *regain* compatibility
1487 2011-09-02 21:28:01 <imsaguy> lol
1488 2011-09-02 21:28:03 <luke-jr> imsaguy: *any* change to this area breaks compatibility
1489 2011-09-02 21:28:10 <luke-jr> imsaguy: best to change as much as possible at once
1490 2011-09-02 21:28:17 <imsaguy> thats the first mistake
1491 2011-09-02 21:28:24 <Namegduf> No, that's how protocols generally work.
1492 2011-09-02 21:28:29 <Namegduf> At least fairly often.
1493 2011-09-02 21:28:39 Guest2171 is now known as disq
1494 2011-09-02 21:28:52 <imsaguy> actually, protocals can be extended/fail back gracefully
1495 2011-09-02 21:28:56 <imsaguy> it doesn't have to be a hard break
1496 2011-09-02 21:28:57 <Namegduf> SOME can be.
1497 2011-09-02 21:28:57 <lfm> Namegduf: Well, I spoze we can just agree to continue to allow just anything in there. That is one option. Not sure it is the best option
1498 2011-09-02 21:28:58 aldiyen has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1499 2011-09-02 21:29:00 <Namegduf> SOME.
1500 2011-09-02 21:29:03 <imsaguy> fine
1501 2011-09-02 21:29:09 disq is now known as Guest21293
1502 2011-09-02 21:29:12 <Namegduf> Specifically, those that have been *designed to permit it*.
1503 2011-09-02 21:29:14 <Namegduf> Bitcoin has not.
1504 2011-09-02 21:29:19 <imsaguy> but you started out with "<Namegduf> That's not how protocols work."
1505 2011-09-02 21:29:32 <Namegduf> And that's still correct.
1506 2011-09-02 21:29:34 <imsaguy> so your statement should have said SOME
1507 2011-09-02 21:29:36 aldiyen has joined
1508 2011-09-02 21:29:40 <Namegduf> Those that support fallback still don't care about the size of changes.
1509 2011-09-02 21:29:44 <Namegduf> They care about whether the fallback works.
1510 2011-09-02 21:29:52 <imsaguy> Some don't fallback to origin
1511 2011-09-02 21:29:55 <luke-jr> due to Bitcoin's nature, I don't think this kind of change *could* be done that way
1512 2011-09-02 21:29:56 <imsaguy> they have sliding windows
1513 2011-09-02 21:30:02 <lfm> Namegduf: for instance you know there was a response in the block chain to lukes prayers already which could be construed as defamation.
1514 2011-09-02 21:30:13 <luke-jr> lfm: that was real spam
1515 2011-09-02 21:30:27 <lfm> luke-jr and you think we should allow it?
1516 2011-09-02 21:30:39 <luke-jr> lfm: no choice, to an extent
1517 2011-09-02 21:30:44 <Namegduf> lfm: Bitcoin does not provide a mechanism to agree/disagree on censorship in this area, is my point. That messages COULD be included could hardly have escaped the designers, seeing as they added the first
1518 2011-09-02 21:30:50 <lfm> not with present policies
1519 2011-09-02 21:30:55 <Namegduf> lfm: So they, certainly, chose to do nothing about that their protocol did not permit it.
1520 2011-09-02 21:31:22 <imsaguy> or perhaps it was just an oversite
1521 2011-09-02 21:31:25 <imsaguy> sight*
1522 2011-09-02 21:31:40 <Namegduf> I believe I pointed out a reasonable reason to believe it wasn't.
1523 2011-09-02 21:31:45 <lfm> Namegduf: they chose to do nothing AT THAT TIME. doesn't mean they wished it never be done
1524 2011-09-02 21:31:47 [DusT]1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1525 2011-09-02 21:32:14 <Namegduf> lfm: That's pretty speculative. Given they didn't leave any kind of negotiation for that in, either.
1526 2011-09-02 21:32:31 <Namegduf> imsaguy: The first block, the genesis block, includes a written message in the same manner.
1527 2011-09-02 21:32:41 <lfm> Namegduf: they left nothing either way as I see it.
1528 2011-09-02 21:32:56 <Namegduf> lfm: They left nothing to restrict it, and knew it was possible.
1529 2011-09-02 21:33:19 <Namegduf> lfm: That is not neutral; it indicates they did not believe it was a problem.
1530 2011-09-02 21:33:37 <lfm> And I say they knew it was possible and may be desirable to add restrictions at a lter date.
1531 2011-09-02 21:33:56 Cablesaurus has joined
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1533 2011-09-02 21:33:56 Cablesaurus has joined
1534 2011-09-02 21:33:58 <Namegduf> That is a subset of "did not believe it to be a problem"
1535 2011-09-02 21:34:04 <lfm> at that time
1536 2011-09-02 21:34:05 [DusT] has joined
1537 2011-09-02 21:34:12 <Namegduf> Just a completely moronic one in a protocol which can't be changed without losing backwards compatibility.
1538 2011-09-02 21:34:34 <Namegduf> It has a size cap.
1539 2011-09-02 21:34:40 <Namegduf> It's not a security vulnerability.
1540 2011-09-02 21:35:07 <lfm> we have precident for losing compatibility with old versions and even deliberatly causeing block chain forks.
1541 2011-09-02 21:35:13 <Namegduf> *causing
1542 2011-09-02 21:35:39 <lfm> I bo to your superior spelling abilities
1543 2011-09-02 21:35:42 <lfm> bow
1544 2011-09-02 21:36:04 <phantomcircuit> removing transactions with messages in them you do not agree with is entirely possible if transaction pruning was added to the client
1545 2011-09-02 21:36:16 <phantomcircuit> possibly there wasa reliance on that?
1546 2011-09-02 21:36:29 <phantomcircuit> actually
1547 2011-09-02 21:36:31 <Namegduf> Only if all outputs are spent
1548 2011-09-02 21:36:33 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: it'd fork the block chain, to remove unspent transactions as a whole
1549 2011-09-02 21:36:45 <phantomcircuit> after you have verified a transaction there is no reason to keep the coin base transactions script
1550 2011-09-02 21:36:45 <luke-jr> Namegduf: coinbases can be pruned immediately, actually
1551 2011-09-02 21:36:51 <Namegduf> Huh, okay.
1552 2011-09-02 21:37:00 brunner has joined
1553 2011-09-02 21:37:02 <lfm> Im not sure we want or need to remove the old messages. but I think we could consider puting some restictions on them, such as size
1554 2011-09-02 21:37:05 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, can they?
1555 2011-09-02 21:37:09 <Namegduf> They already have size limits
1556 2011-09-02 21:37:11 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, would it?
1557 2011-09-02 21:37:30 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: ?
1558 2011-09-02 21:37:30 <phantomcircuit> you just need the txid for calculating the merkle root
1559 2011-09-02 21:37:38 <lfm> Namegduf: what size is that. I mean like Smaller size limits
1560 2011-09-02 21:37:42 <phantomcircuit> so i think you could prune any spent transaction
1561 2011-09-02 21:37:59 <luke-jr> for practical purposes, space for text content in my coinbase is 82 bytes
1562 2011-09-02 21:38:04 <phantomcircuit> or users could specify which transactions specifically they do not wish to have on disk
1563 2011-09-02 21:38:12 <luke-jr> when I add merged mining, that drops by about 25
1564 2011-09-02 21:38:50 <Namegduf> lfm: How small are you thinking, to stop people putting spam in?
1565 2011-09-02 21:39:21 <Namegduf> Or, rather, unwanted messages?
1566 2011-09-02 21:39:25 <lfm> I cant see any need for more than 16 bytes.
1567 2011-09-02 21:39:42 <Namegduf> Pretty sure 16 characters is enough to be offensive.
1568 2011-09-02 21:39:47 <luke-jr> lfm just eliminated the possibility for ever doing merged mining
1569 2011-09-02 21:40:03 <lfm> what is merged mining?
1570 2011-09-02 21:40:15 <luke-jr> lfm: mining both Bitcoin and Namecoin at the same time
1571 2011-09-02 21:41:07 <Namegduf> lfm: At any rate, my original point was that the bitcoin protocol as originally designed does not, by design, include restrictions on something they certainly knew was possible. They did not, at the time, feel the ability to include arbitrary textual messages was a problem.
1572 2011-09-02 21:41:13 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1573 2011-09-02 21:41:40 <Namegduf> And at the present time, the bitcoin protocol does not include a way to restrict messages that disturb the large stick up people's asses.
1574 2011-09-02 21:42:41 <Namegduf> So I don't feel it's an interesting debate. Yes, it's that way, it's how it was designed. And it can't hurt anything.
1575 2011-09-02 21:42:43 <lfm> Namegduf: well, I see you feel quite strongly about this.
1576 2011-09-02 21:43:24 <Namegduf> lfm: I'm an agnostic FWIW, I just think the drama is ridiculously purile
1577 2011-09-02 21:43:46 <Namegduf> It's an arbitrary data field, people can put whatever they like it in, it's just arbitrary noise to the protocol
1578 2011-09-02 21:44:07 erle- has quit (Quit: CETERVMÂAVTEMÂCENSEOÂCVTTENBERCÂESSEÂDELENDVM)
1579 2011-09-02 21:44:07 gothicwomong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1580 2011-09-02 21:44:10 <Namegduf> It doesn't hurt or affect anything and the protocol was not designed with any way to influence it (because that'd be stupid)
1581 2011-09-02 21:45:01 <Namegduf> You'd be better served to modify your client to shield your innocent eyes from the text
1582 2011-09-02 21:45:06 <lfm> Namegduf: its not clear to me that the size is actually resticted. I suspect it actually could be VERY large, up to the block size limit of a magabyte.
1583 2011-09-02 21:45:39 <luke-jr> troll
1584 2011-09-02 21:45:55 Baksch has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1585 2011-09-02 21:46:12 <imsaguy> nom nom nom
1586 2011-09-02 21:46:16 <luke-jr> actually, IIRC I only found the size my trial and error
1587 2011-09-02 21:46:20 <luke-jr> so maybe not so much of a troll
1588 2011-09-02 21:46:29 <luke-jr> by*
1589 2011-09-02 21:46:44 <Namegduf> lfm: Even if that was true, block people have the ability to include as many junk transactions as they like
1590 2011-09-02 21:47:28 <Namegduf> lfm: So if there's a vulnerability due to size, it's open in plenty of other ways that would also need to be solved.
1591 2011-09-02 21:47:33 <lfm> So, a megabyte could put the whole new testament in a block, or some images if you are hung up on the idea of text.
1592 2011-09-02 21:47:47 <Namegduf> And?
1593 2011-09-02 21:48:17 <Namegduf> It could also put transactions passing BTC back and forth between two addresses doing nothing.
1594 2011-09-02 21:48:17 <luke-jr> main.cpp line 330
1595 2011-09-02 21:48:22 <luke-jr> if (vin[0].scriptSig.size() < 2 || vin[0].scriptSig.size() > 100)
1596 2011-09-02 21:48:32 aga has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1597 2011-09-02 21:48:39 <Namegduf> It'd be the same effect, technically.
1598 2011-09-02 21:48:48 <lfm> images which could be used to send anyone with a copy of the block chain to jail (eg kiddy porn) in at least some countries
1599 2011-09-02 21:48:52 <imsaguy> <Namegduf> It could also put transactions passing BTC back and forth between two addresses doing nothing. <-- That's the potential for real spam
1600 2011-09-02 21:49:02 <Namegduf> imsaguy: For no fees, too!
1601 2011-09-02 21:49:06 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1602 2011-09-02 21:49:09 <imsaguy> that's spam
1603 2011-09-02 21:49:13 <luke-jr> lfm: if you find a way to determine the colour of bits, I'd be glad to filter them on Eligius
1604 2011-09-02 21:49:26 <imsaguy> luke-jr, put your glasses on first
1605 2011-09-02 21:49:39 <luke-jr> are those 1s and 0s red or green?
1606 2011-09-02 21:49:45 <luke-jr> I'm colour blind, I can't tell.
1607 2011-09-02 21:49:46 <imsaguy> depends on the glasses
1608 2011-09-02 21:49:58 <lfm> luke-jr a jpeg can be embeded pretty easily if it allows that size of a set of bits
1609 2011-09-02 21:50:28 <Namegduf> lfm: I guess that's why there is a size limit.
1610 2011-09-02 21:50:33 <luke-jr> lfm: how do you know it's a JPEG? Could just as well be a SHA512
1611 2011-09-02 21:50:51 <imsaguy> acsi text FTW
1612 2011-09-02 21:51:00 <lfm> how do we know its catholic text?
1613 2011-09-02 21:51:12 <luke-jr> bits are bits, they only have meaning when you give it to them
1614 2011-09-02 21:51:24 <Namegduf> lfm: You have a point that being able to include unlimited size arbitrary data could be a problem worth actual debate
1615 2011-09-02 21:51:45 <lfm> same applies to any file. argue it with a cop that that jpg file wasnt meant to be a picture
1616 2011-09-02 21:53:28 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
1617 2011-09-02 21:54:03 <lfm> Namegduf: ok now that we agree on the principle, we just have to figure out what is a reasonable limit for that particular field
1618 2011-09-02 21:54:13 * luke-jr thinks someone should make software that encodes an image in a way that sounds audibly pleasing when decoded as a MP3
1619 2011-09-02 21:54:31 gotuvp has joined
1620 2011-09-02 21:54:34 <Namegduf> I wonder if you can do that.
1621 2011-09-02 21:54:36 <luke-jr> lfm: no, we don't. the limit was decided a long time ago
1622 2011-09-02 21:54:44 <Namegduf> You can do something like that with a lot of formats.
1623 2011-09-02 21:54:51 <luke-jr> Namegduf: I'm sure there's some combination of audio/image that would be possible
1624 2011-09-02 21:54:53 <Namegduf> A lot of formats look for headers and ignore things outside of them
1625 2011-09-02 21:55:02 <Namegduf> And thus can be almost just concatenated
1626 2011-09-02 21:55:03 <luke-jr> Namegduf: no, it'd have to be the same data ;)
1627 2011-09-02 21:55:25 <luke-jr> there's lots of ways to encode both image and audio
1628 2011-09-02 21:55:39 <lfm> Namegduf: yup, and if a cop figures out how you are hiding the image for instance then there is no use argueing it isn't what it looks like
1629 2011-09-02 21:55:41 <luke-jr> I'm sure it's possible to look for the most cooperative combination for any particular data
1630 2011-09-02 21:55:50 <luke-jr> I choose image/audio cuz they can be done lossy
1631 2011-09-02 21:56:01 <Namegduf> lfm: I didn't say otherwise.
1632 2011-09-02 21:57:15 <lfm> luke-jr I think it would be a matter of encpsulating one within the other. both mp3 and jpg have unique id codes at the start.
1633 2011-09-02 22:01:00 <imsaguy> .jp3
1634 2011-09-02 22:01:50 <lfm> or mp4 which is a video format with sound
1635 2011-09-02 22:03:38 Titeuf_87 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1636 2011-09-02 22:04:38 <imsaguy> yeah, but mp4 already has a specification
1637 2011-09-02 22:10:32 <copumpkin> phantomcircuit: this is some seriously heavy intellect in here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=40934.msg500057#msg500057
1638 2011-09-02 22:10:40 <copumpkin> "His freedom. "
1639 2011-09-02 22:10:44 <copumpkin> zomg you threatened his freedom
1640 2011-09-02 22:11:09 <bittwist> *eagle soars overheard*
1641 2011-09-02 22:11:26 * copumpkin starts playing his cornet
1642 2011-09-02 22:11:27 andyroo has joined
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1644 2011-09-02 22:12:59 da2ce7 has quit ()
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1647 2011-09-02 22:14:37 <phantomcircuit> copumpkin, the best part is that he is threatening his own freedom
1648 2011-09-02 22:14:42 <copumpkin> yeah
1649 2011-09-02 22:14:48 <copumpkin> I kind of wish I had a forum account
1650 2011-09-02 22:15:00 <copumpkin> but I don't want to go through the pain of getting one and permission to post
1651 2011-09-02 22:15:14 <copumpkin> it's pretty trivial to refute each of the https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=40934.msg500025#msg500025 "points"
1652 2011-09-02 22:15:17 <phantomcircuit> it's in the newbies section
1653 2011-09-02 22:15:22 <phantomcircuit> you can post immediately
1654 2011-09-02 22:15:26 <copumpkin> he clearly seems to think he's in the right
1655 2011-09-02 22:15:32 <copumpkin> ah
1656 2011-09-02 22:15:35 <copumpkin> meh :)
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1659 2011-09-02 22:19:44 Matth1a3zzzz is now known as Matth1a3
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1663 2011-09-02 22:22:12 <copumpkin> there, I responded
1664 2011-09-02 22:25:30 <copumpkin> this guy is hilarious
1665 2011-09-02 22:25:49 Guest80120 is now known as BTCTrader_
1666 2011-09-02 22:26:54 <Blitzboom> phantomcircuit: iâm starting to question the use of a currency which mainly benefits scammers, hackers and thieves
1667 2011-09-02 22:27:03 <copumpkin> phantomcircuit: can you give me a link to that OR law quote you had earlier?
1668 2011-09-02 22:27:22 <Blitzboom> phantomcircuit: itâs like redistribution of wealth to them, inherent in bitcoin
1669 2011-09-02 22:27:36 <Blitzboom> ever since mtgox
1670 2011-09-02 22:27:46 <phantomcircuit> copumpkin, http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/164.html
1671 2011-09-02 22:27:54 <phantomcircuit> 164.015
1672 2011-09-02 22:28:30 <phantomcircuit> 164.055 Theft in the first degree
1673 2011-09-02 22:28:43 <phantomcircuit> visa vi sentencing guidelines in oregon
1674 2011-09-02 22:29:06 <phantomcircuit> from 2003 (the latest available) the guidlines place theft of $4000 at classification 3
1675 2011-09-02 22:29:14 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: please don't cut him any deals
1676 2011-09-02 22:29:17 <luke-jr> Blitzboom's point is good
1677 2011-09-02 22:29:18 <phantomcircuit> which if i read their grid thing right is 30 to 60 months
1678 2011-09-02 22:29:22 <luke-jr> we need to see some real justice served
1679 2011-09-02 22:29:35 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, at this point i have no intention to
1680 2011-09-02 22:29:41 <Blitzboom> luke-jr: if bitcoin does honest people net more damage then good, then it is to be questioned imo
1681 2011-09-02 22:29:46 <Blitzboom> than*
1682 2011-09-02 22:30:12 Guest21293 is now known as disq
1683 2011-09-02 22:30:17 <luke-jr> a judgement ruling the stolen Bitcoins need to be paid back (probably in USD, but oh well) would help
1684 2011-09-02 22:30:24 <luke-jr> bet the price goes up again :D
1685 2011-09-02 22:30:41 disq is now known as Guest36393
1686 2011-09-02 22:31:18 Daniel0108 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1687 2011-09-02 22:31:26 <luke-jr> (which means phantomcircuit better buy those bitcoins FAST when the ruling is decided)
1688 2011-09-02 22:31:36 <copumpkin> phantomcircuit: you're a US citizen, right?
1689 2011-09-02 22:31:46 <phantomcircuit> copumpkin, correct
1690 2011-09-02 22:32:04 <Matth1a3> anyone bored want to help a noob? http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/474/
1691 2011-09-02 22:32:18 <Matth1a3> bitcoind is telling me command not found in ubuntu
1692 2011-09-02 22:32:33 <phantomcircuit> you need to login now to view questions?
1693 2011-09-02 22:32:34 <phantomcircuit> wat
1694 2011-09-02 22:32:43 <wtfman> is there internet in wyoming?
1695 2011-09-02 22:32:44 <Matth1a3> really? that's lame
1696 2011-09-02 22:32:48 hahuang65 has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
1697 2011-09-02 22:32:50 <Matth1a3> maybe because it's in beta
1698 2011-09-02 22:32:59 <wtfman> I never ever had a visit on my site from wyoming according to analytics :>
1699 2011-09-02 22:33:09 <phantomcircuit> lol
1700 2011-09-02 22:33:15 <Matth1a3> haha. nic
1701 2011-09-02 22:33:16 <Matth1a3> nice
1702 2011-09-02 22:33:21 <phantomcircuit> WeÂll be open to the public
1703 2011-09-02 22:33:22 <phantomcircuit> in 3 days
1704 2011-09-02 22:33:22 <phantomcircuit> Come back then!
1705 2011-09-02 22:33:22 gotuvp has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1706 2011-09-02 22:33:24 <phantomcircuit> booooo
1707 2011-09-02 22:33:41 <Matth1a3> When I do: cd src bitcoind -daemon I get the error: bitcoind: command not found
1708 2011-09-02 22:33:51 <Matth1a3> bitcoin is built on my desktop in ubuntu
1709 2011-09-02 22:34:18 <luke-jr> â¦
1710 2011-09-02 22:34:22 <luke-jr> ./
1711 2011-09-02 22:34:28 <phantomcircuit> copumpkin, i believe he thinks since we're in europe he has nothing to fear
1712 2011-09-02 22:34:36 <copumpkin> I've addressed all those points :P
1713 2011-09-02 22:34:37 <copumpkin> I hope
1714 2011-09-02 22:34:37 <Matth1a3> i tried that it says no such file or directory
1715 2011-09-02 22:34:54 Backburn has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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1717 2011-09-02 22:35:38 <Matth1a3> oh snap - is it because of my rpc password?
1718 2011-09-02 22:35:45 <luke-jr> no
1719 2011-09-02 22:35:46 <copumpkin> I hope he's getting scared now
1720 2011-09-02 22:35:58 <luke-jr> Matth1a3: it's because you don't know how to use Ubuntu
1721 2011-09-02 22:36:04 <Matth1a3> yes
1722 2011-09-02 22:36:50 <Matth1a3> yes as in i don't
1723 2011-09-02 22:36:52 <Matth1a3> new to it
1724 2011-09-02 22:37:20 <phantomcircuit> copumpkin, i get the feeling he thinks he's some kind of bad ass
1725 2011-09-02 22:37:37 <phantomcircuit> there's forum posts where he's going on and on about how someones a bitch for "not having done time"
1726 2011-09-02 22:37:45 <copumpkin> he's definitely in oregon, right?
1727 2011-09-02 22:37:49 <phantomcircuit> yes
1728 2011-09-02 22:37:54 <phantomcircuit> im certain of the town he is in
1729 2011-09-02 22:38:23 <copumpkin> he's ignoring my points
1730 2011-09-02 22:38:49 <phantomcircuit> of course he is
1731 2011-09-02 22:39:29 <phantomcircuit> "You really seem to think the law is going to get involved? What law lmfao WE LIVE IN DIFFERENT COUNTRIES."
1732 2011-09-02 22:39:34 <phantomcircuit> facepalm worthy to the max
1733 2011-09-02 22:41:05 <phantomcircuit> copumpkin, dont bother he's clearly not interested
1734 2011-09-02 22:41:08 <kjj> fuck. 17 new posts while I was typing what was really a fairly short reply
1735 2011-09-02 22:41:10 <phantomcircuit> he believes the law cant touch him
1736 2011-09-02 22:43:05 <copumpkin> "but feel free to keep acting like a badass online"
1737 2011-09-02 22:43:06 <copumpkin> :)
1738 2011-09-02 22:43:49 gothicmeaqbj has joined
1739 2011-09-02 22:45:08 <copumpkin> lolwtf: http://www.bitcoinpool.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=780
1740 2011-09-02 22:45:15 <copumpkin> phantomcircuit: did you just pay for 10 video cards? :P
1741 2011-09-02 22:45:43 c00w has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1742 2011-09-02 22:46:31 <phantomcircuit> copumpkin, >.>
1743 2011-09-02 22:47:14 <copumpkin> http://www.reverbnation.com/dlowdaog
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1745 2011-09-02 22:52:36 <andyroo> ;;ticker
1746 2011-09-02 22:52:36 <gribble> Best bid: 8.58246, Best ask: 8.59998, Bid-ask spread: 0.01752, Last trade: 8.6, 24 hour volume: 15129, 24 hour low: 8.20921, 24 hour high: 8.7138
1747 2011-09-02 22:52:44 <andyroo> hey, cool, when did that happen?
1748 2011-09-02 22:53:50 <andyroo> goxlive says 5 minutes ago
1749 2011-09-02 22:56:43 <TuxBlackEdo> ;;bc,price
1750 2011-09-02 22:56:43 <gribble> Next Price Estimate: 10.25424 | Next Price In About 2 days, 15 hours, 49 minutes, and 4 seconds
1751 2011-09-02 22:56:44 <EPiSKiNG-> yay!
1752 2011-09-02 22:56:47 <TuxBlackEdo> yep
1753 2011-09-02 23:00:55 <copumpkin> wow, he actually said "I see where you are going with this. Good point."
1754 2011-09-02 23:00:58 <copumpkin> not to me though
1755 2011-09-02 23:01:01 <copumpkin> so who knows if he's coming around
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1757 2011-09-02 23:03:36 <luke-jr> copumpkin: let's all make posts on their forum pointing out that they're bought with stolen moneys
1758 2011-09-02 23:03:40 <luke-jr> taking turns being banned ofc
1759 2011-09-02 23:04:11 <copumpkin> lol
1760 2011-09-02 23:04:11 <copumpkin> yeah
1761 2011-09-02 23:05:16 MobiusL_ is now known as ifthen
1762 2011-09-02 23:05:24 <phantomcircuit> copumpkin, ask him if it was a felony conviction
1763 2011-09-02 23:05:30 ifthen is now known as MobiusL
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1765 2011-09-02 23:08:56 <copumpkin> man, I'm excited now
1766 2011-09-02 23:09:36 <copumpkin> people are logging that channel, right?
1767 2011-09-02 23:10:03 nullrouten has quit (Quit: leaving)
1768 2011-09-02 23:11:50 <phantomcircuit> yes
1769 2011-09-02 23:11:53 AStove has quit ()
1770 2011-09-02 23:12:46 <copumpkin> anyway, I'm gonna walk home
1771 2011-09-02 23:12:48 <Matth1a3> anyone know if a public user can reopen an issue with a commit message?
1772 2011-09-02 23:12:52 <Matth1a3> in github?
1773 2011-09-02 23:13:07 <copumpkin> phantomcircuit: let me know if you need any help with anything (if you need someone do to something for you in the US, for example)
1774 2011-09-02 23:13:25 <phantomcircuit> copumpkin, will do
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1793 2011-09-02 23:33:37 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, dont bother
1794 2011-09-02 23:33:45 <phantomcircuit> this will only be resolves with lawyers and police
1795 2011-09-02 23:35:23 <andyroo> Matth1a3: github generally works on the pull-request model
1796 2011-09-02 23:35:45 <andyroo> so, you clone a github repo, make your changes in your own github repo,
1797 2011-09-02 23:35:59 <andyroo> then ask the original devs to pull in your changes
1798 2011-09-02 23:36:24 <andyroo> TuxBlackEdo: how does bc,price work?
1799 2011-09-02 23:38:49 copumpkin has joined
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1805 2011-09-02 23:55:34 <TuxBlackEdo> i know you want me
1806 2011-09-02 23:55:40 <TuxBlackEdo> i know i want cha
1807 2011-09-02 23:55:58 <Joric> did you know that with a great power comes great power bill?
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