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   5 2011-09-03 00:10:08 <surikator> Hi everyone. Do you know in the github of phoenix (https://github.com/jedi95/Phoenix-Miner) which file contains the algorithm for scanning the nonce space? I'm interested in knowing the order of enumeration of the space. Thanks!
   6 2011-09-03 00:11:32 <Diablo-D3> surikator: linear.
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  13 2011-09-03 00:18:51 <surikator> and it always start at the same nonce? which nonce is it?
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  15 2011-09-03 00:26:40 <andyroo> surikator: 0
  16 2011-09-03 00:26:46 <andyroo> or 1, i forget
  17 2011-09-03 00:29:31 <surikator> andyroo:  thanks! it is not important whether is 0 or 1, i get the idea.
  18 2011-09-03 00:30:56 <andyroo> you can start somewhere else, if it'd be more efficient for whatever hardware you have
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  21 2011-09-03 00:31:16 <andyroo> but cryptographically it's irrelevant - SHA is designed to change ~50% of the hash for every increment
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  25 2011-09-03 00:31:39 <copumpkin> ~50%?
  26 2011-09-03 00:31:53 <andyroo> one moment, let me check on that
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  29 2011-09-03 00:32:12 <andyroo> half the characters won't stay the same :P
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  41 2011-09-03 00:34:05 <andyroo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHA-1#Examples_and_pseudocode
  42 2011-09-03 00:34:25 <andyroo> you can see hashing "dog" and "god" has hashes with 81 of the 160 bits changed
  43 2011-09-03 00:34:45 <copumpkin> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avalanche_effect#Strict_avalanche_criterion :)
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  45 2011-09-03 00:35:40 <andyroo> bitcoin uses SHA-256 correct?
  46 2011-09-03 00:36:00 <copumpkin> and ripemd-160 for other things
  47 2011-09-03 00:36:03 <andyroo> but thanks, that is what i was referring to
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  62 2011-09-03 01:06:58 <andyroo> ;;ticker
  63 2011-09-03 01:06:59 <gribble> Best bid: 8.5122, Best ask: 8.5123, Bid-ask spread: 9.99999999998e-05, Last trade: 8.5122, 24 hour volume: 16393, 24 hour low: 8.23, 24 hour high: 8.7138
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  66 2011-09-03 01:13:39 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas adl_support * rd57cd91955a2 cgminer/ (9 files in 2 dirs):
  67 2011-09-03 01:13:39 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Implement ATI ADL support for GPU parameter monitoring now and setting later
  68 2011-09-03 01:13:39 <CIA-101> bitcoin: (temp, fan, clocks etc.). Check for the presence of the ADL header files in
  69 2011-09-03 01:13:39 <CIA-101> bitcoin: ADL_SDK. Import adl_functions.h from amd overdrive ctrl. Implement a setup
  70 2011-09-03 01:13:39 <CIA-101> bitcoin: function that tries to detect GPUs that support the ADL and link in the
  71 2011-09-03 01:13:40 <CIA-101> bitcoin: parameters into the gpus struct. Put a summary of monitoring information from
  72 2011-09-03 01:13:41 <CIA-101> bitcoin: the GPU menu.
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  91 2011-09-03 02:13:15 <copumpkin> 21:48] <@Osama-BTC-Laden> it wasnt 511
  92 2011-09-03 02:13:15 <copumpkin> [21:49] <@Osama-BTC-Laden> it was 612
  93 2011-09-03 02:13:19 <copumpkin> phantomcircuit
  94 2011-09-03 02:13:30 <phantomcircuit> he's trolling
  95 2011-09-03 02:13:33 <copumpkin> ah
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  97 2011-09-03 02:17:16 <copumpkin> I really hope he gets screwed
  98 2011-09-03 02:19:44 <phantomcircuit> we didn't even have 612 BTC in that wallet
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 116 2011-09-03 03:13:05 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas adl_support * r35ace4632517 cgminer/ (adl.c adl.h main.c miner.h): Enable changing of engine clock setting on the fly.
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 124 2011-09-03 03:38:06 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas adl_support * r3681ae84cc43 cgminer/adl.c: Implement changing memory speed and voltage on the fly.
 125 2011-09-03 03:42:20 jimon has joined
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 127 2011-09-03 03:48:14 <CIA-101> bitcoin: aldiyen * r5fc42ec3e40e Phoenix-Miner-personal/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
 128 2011-09-03 03:48:14 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Fixed bug where rejected work would cause connection errors when we tried to
 129 2011-09-03 03:48:14 <CIA-101> bitcoin: request work twice simultaneously; fixed bug where rejectReason was being passed
 130 2011-09-03 03:48:14 <CIA-101> bitcoin: to ConsoleLogger as a list rather than string; don't clear queue if work is
 131 2011-09-03 03:48:14 <CIA-101> bitcoin: rejected, only drop current work; don't report idle if we just abandoned current
 132 2011-09-03 03:48:14 <CIA-101> bitcoin: work; don't store a miningHashrate value on the client (why did I ever do
 133 2011-09-03 03:48:15 <CIA-101> bitcoin: that?); other minor code cleanup/simplification
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 150 2011-09-03 04:39:08 <luke-jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/newcc.png
 151 2011-09-03 04:39:09 Strom has joined
 152 2011-09-03 04:39:28 <forrestv> can one of the devs review https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/476 , please? it's much more useful now - it's essentially a complete alternative to the getwork call for clients that are intelligent
 153 2011-09-03 04:39:54 <forrestv> ones that compute their own generation transaction, that is..
 154 2011-09-03 04:41:02 <luke-jr> forrestv: does it support LP?
 155 2011-09-03 04:41:21 <forrestv> luke-jr, no ... and that's an excellent point
 156 2011-09-03 04:41:48 helo_ has joined
 157 2011-09-03 04:41:53 <luke-jr> forrestv: how about submitting the finished block?
 158 2011-09-03 04:41:57 <forrestv> luke-jr, it can do that
 159 2011-09-03 04:42:21 <luke-jr> k, I think that's all that pops into my mind for potential issues :P
 160 2011-09-03 04:42:25 <forrestv> it seems like it'd be hard to implement the current LP spec into bitcoind
 161 2011-09-03 04:42:34 <forrestv> s/into/in/
 162 2011-09-03 04:42:56 <forrestv> wasn't there some patch for pushpool that used a signal or a fd or something?
 163 2011-09-03 04:43:55 <luke-jr> yes
 164 2011-09-03 04:44:18 <luke-jr> forrestv: I agree, LP probably depends on threaded RPC (which I have a branch for)
 165 2011-09-03 04:47:10 BurningToad_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 166 2011-09-03 04:48:05 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas adl_support * r07b847f7e7b0 cgminer/adl.c: Implement fan speed setting.
 167 2011-09-03 04:50:28 apoelstra has joined
 168 2011-09-03 04:50:37 <apoelstra> ;;ticker
 169 2011-09-03 04:50:37 <gribble> Best bid: 8.543, Best ask: 8.61964, Bid-ask spread: 0.07664, Last trade: 8.544, 24 hour volume: 15354, 24 hour low: 8.23, 24 hour high: 8.7138
 170 2011-09-03 04:56:31 peck has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 171 2011-09-03 04:56:36 <luke-jr> ThomasV: LOL, you are such a troll :D
 172 2011-09-03 04:56:44 <ThomasV> why ?
 173 2011-09-03 04:56:49 <luke-jr> XD
 174 2011-09-03 04:56:54 twobits has joined
 175 2011-09-03 04:58:09 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas adl_support * rbf2669b83a67 cgminer/adl.c: Minor corrections to set fan speed by percentage.
 176 2011-09-03 05:01:51 cypherpunk01 has joined
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 178 2011-09-03 05:04:53 <Matth1a3> can someone recommend a label that covers documentation and messages (like echos) - maybe "Text"?
 179 2011-09-03 05:05:08 helo_ has quit (Quit: Bye)
 180 2011-09-03 05:06:39 <ThomasV> luke-jr: I was banned
 181 2011-09-03 05:06:58 <luke-jr> ThomasV: oh well, it was LOL while it lasted
 182 2011-09-03 05:07:22 <ThomasV> I should perhaps publish the log
 183 2011-09-03 05:07:34 <ThomasV> bah, not important
 184 2011-09-03 05:07:48 squeamish has joined
 185 2011-09-03 05:08:10 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas adl_support * r320a5f2a9290 cgminer/adl.c: Make sure to read off the value in RPM only.
 186 2011-09-03 05:16:02 squeamish has left ("Leaving")
 187 2011-09-03 05:21:50 <luke-jr> ThomasV: I got banned too
 188 2011-09-03 05:21:53 <luke-jr> I wasn't even talking
 189 2011-09-03 05:22:04 <ThomasV> oh
 190 2011-09-03 05:22:22 <ThomasV> what did they say ?
 191 2011-09-03 05:22:44 <luke-jr> nothing
 192 2011-09-03 05:22:56 <SomeoneWeird> lol
 193 2011-09-03 05:23:02 <ThomasV> :-)
 194 2011-09-03 05:23:07 <luke-jr> [01:08:11] --> Hans_ has joined this channel (cee18428@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.225.132.40).
 195 2011-09-03 05:23:08 <luke-jr> [01:13:37] *** RealSolid sets mode: +o luke-jr
 196 2011-09-03 05:23:09 <luke-jr> [01:13:43] *** RealSolid sets mode: +b *!*@2001:470:5:265:222:4dff:fe50:4c49
 197 2011-09-03 05:23:11 <luke-jr> [01:13:46] *** You have been kicked from channel #solidcoin by RealSolid (luke-jr).
 198 2011-09-03 05:23:52 <Diablo-D3> lol
 199 2011-09-03 05:24:31 <SomeoneWeird> lolwut
 200 2011-09-03 05:25:13 <lfm> I take it RealSolid is somewhat defensive about solidcoin
 201 2011-09-03 05:25:38 <luke-jr> lfm: he's slandering me, saying I'm attacking it
 202 2011-09-03 05:25:45 <SomeoneWeird> somewhat is an understatement
 203 2011-09-03 05:25:58 <ThomasV> lfm: I was banned from the channel because I wanted to short sell
 204 2011-09-03 05:26:45 <nanotube> <lfm> I take it RealSolid is somewhat defensive about solidcoin <- seems like he's not very solid eh :)
 205 2011-09-03 05:26:49 <lfm> lol, when he was here I guess he would have liked to have banned me too then!
 206 2011-09-03 05:27:07 <nanotube> i'm guessing he's feeling the pinch of the dropping sc prices. :)
 207 2011-09-03 05:27:18 <luke-jr> nanotube: http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/newcc.png
 208 2011-09-03 05:28:02 <nanotube> luke-jr: interesting concept. how about a picture with some double-spends in the mesh?
 209 2011-09-03 05:28:25 Folklore has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 210 2011-09-03 05:28:35 <SomeoneWeird> how would that work luke-jr ?
 211 2011-09-03 05:28:47 <nanotube> luke-jr: also, what if a 'good tx' builds on a tx that ends up being the losing half of a double-spend (however losing is determined)
 212 2011-09-03 05:28:49 <ThomasV> anyway, if someone wants so lend me some solidcoins, please pm me. I know it's not the right channel, but I was banned from it :-)
 213 2011-09-03 05:28:50 <luke-jr> nanotube: good question
 214 2011-09-03 05:28:55 <nanotube> does that mean that the good tx has to be re-created?
 215 2011-09-03 05:28:58 <lfm> SomeoneWeird: the question is "would that work?"
 216 2011-09-03 05:29:00 <nanotube> in order to be valid?
 217 2011-09-03 05:29:08 <SomeoneWeird> ...
 218 2011-09-03 05:30:18 Folklore has joined
 219 2011-09-03 05:30:37 <luke-jr> nanotube: perhaps the txns can "depend" on the ones preceding in a soft way?
 220 2011-09-03 05:30:40 <lfm> ThomasV: shorting solidcoin is attacking it you know?
 221 2011-09-03 05:31:07 <ThomasV> lfm: yes but I take a risk
 222 2011-09-03 05:31:55 <luke-jr> also, in case you missed it, you're only experienced if you're a Windows user, according to RealSolid
 223 2011-09-03 05:32:18 <copumpkin> damn
 224 2011-09-03 05:32:25 <lfm> oh I thought Jimmy Hedrix defined that term
 225 2011-09-03 05:32:31 <lfm> Hendrix
 226 2011-09-03 05:32:33 <luke-jr> therefore, all Bitcoin developers are inexperienced
 227 2011-09-03 05:32:36 <luke-jr> because we don't use Windows
 228 2011-09-03 05:32:41 <luke-jr> (again, RealSolid)
 229 2011-09-03 05:33:34 <ThomasV> luke-jr: actually he might have a point here. windows users are important, at least financially
 230 2011-09-03 05:34:02 <ThomasV> they should not be neglected
 231 2011-09-03 05:34:07 <lfm> I spoze it does take a lot more dedication to stick with windows.
 232 2011-09-03 05:34:10 <luke-jr> ThomasV: depends on what side of the industry you're on
 233 2011-09-03 05:34:24 <luke-jr> ThomasV: plus, you can develop stuff for Windows without ever touching it yourself
 234 2011-09-03 05:34:46 <ThomasV> testing is crucial
 235 2011-09-03 05:35:07 <nanotube> luke-jr: yea, it seems it'd introduce a lot of complexity and abmiguity into deciding which tx are valid... but on the plus side, it semes that it avoids mining :)
 236 2011-09-03 05:35:11 <luke-jr> ThomasV: I can test on *nix
 237 2011-09-03 05:35:17 <nanotube> though a node might need a bunch of gpu power just to verify the tx mesh haha
 238 2011-09-03 05:35:33 <luke-jr> nanotube: well, mining might still be needed to generate new coins
 239 2011-09-03 05:35:39 <luke-jr> nanotube: that's just a separate process now
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 244 2011-09-03 05:48:05 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas adl_support * r495adcbf5f3d cgminer/ (adl.c adl.h main.c miner.h): Implement auto fanspeed adjustment to maintain a target temperature and fanspeed below 85%, with an overheat check that will speed the fan up to 100%.
 245 2011-09-03 05:50:05 <ThomasV> hmmm, solidcoin is forking its blockchain
 246 2011-09-03 05:50:27 <ThomasV> https://scexchange.bitparking.com/main
 247 2011-09-03 05:50:32 <ThomasV> (the text in red)
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 251 2011-09-03 05:58:04 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas adl_support * rdcc97e45db28 cgminer/ (adl.c main.c miner.h): Add an --auto-fan command line option to allow all GPUs to have autofan enabled from startup.
 252 2011-09-03 05:59:46 <cjdelisle> "1.03 is out, everyone needs to hop on it to stop the spammers increasing the chain size unnecessarily.
 253 2011-09-03 06:00:44 <cjdelisle> sounds like the fee was fixed nomatter how big the tx was
 254 2011-09-03 06:01:30 <forrestv> hehe ... "consistent transaction fees, yay!"
 255 2011-09-03 06:01:41 <ThomasV> yes that is one of the features of sc
 256 2011-09-03 06:02:27 <nanotube> just wait for it. soon enough "block chain is forking to increase target block time to 10 minutes"
 257 2011-09-03 06:02:39 <nanotube> hehe
 258 2011-09-03 06:03:10 <ThomasV> lol
 259 2011-09-03 06:03:20 <nanotube> "client version 1.06 replaces all occurrences of 'solidcoin' with 'bitcoin' because it's a catchier name"
 260 2011-09-03 06:03:44 <SomeoneWeird> lol
 261 2011-09-03 06:04:03 <ThomasV> nanotube: oh but it will be based on the previous sc blockchain, to be fair with our miners
 262 2011-09-03 06:04:26 <nanotube> "client version 1.09 is an exact replica of bitcoin, just with a different genesis block and address scheme"
 263 2011-09-03 06:04:27 <nanotube> heh
 264 2011-09-03 06:04:59 <cjdelisle> more likely: forking because attacking the 400% difficulty drop turns out to be too easy
 265 2011-09-03 06:06:38 <ThomasV> MagicalTux: the maps extension is great, but it has a small bug
 266 2011-09-03 06:07:18 <ThomasV> I sometimes need to re-parse the page in order to display all the tags
 267 2011-09-03 06:07:23 * cjdelisle waits for an industrious miner to mine a few post-dated blocks so causing a difficulty retarget then mine enough easy blocks that their fork beats the official one then release their fork
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 269 2011-09-03 06:09:04 <ThomasV> cjdelisle: would it pay off at currrent prices ?
 270 2011-09-03 06:09:16 vragnaroda has joined
 271 2011-09-03 06:09:26 <cjdelisle> idk
 272 2011-09-03 06:09:54 <cjdelisle> you would need >50% of the mining power but it would make for a huge payday
 273 2011-09-03 06:10:14 <ThomasV> huge in solidcoins
 274 2011-09-03 06:10:23 <ThomasV> or in btc ?
 275 2011-09-03 06:10:43 <cjdelisle> I tend to think that it would still be profitable in btc
 276 2011-09-03 06:11:33 <ThomasV> you would need to sell them quick, before everyone realizes that it is fucked
 277 2011-09-03 06:12:33 <cjdelisle> but you'd have to test it on some solidcoind binaries and see just how they react, you could nuter their check work function so that you don't actually have to crunch the numbers, just feed them imaginary hashes with more and more 0s at the beginning
 278 2011-09-03 06:13:02 <ThomasV> huh?
 279 2011-09-03 06:13:17 <cjdelisle> method of testing the hypothesis
 280 2011-09-03 06:13:25 <ThomasV> oh ok
 281 2011-09-03 06:13:38 <nanotube> cjdelisle: well, bitcoin also has a /4 max difficulty reduction.
 282 2011-09-03 06:14:08 <ThomasV> I guess it does not have to be profitable in order to be attractive. vladimir might do it for free :-)
 283 2011-09-03 06:14:16 <cjdelisle> yea but good luck getting >50% of the btc hashing power
 284 2011-09-03 06:14:36 <nanotube> unless they ripped out ,,(bc,wiki block timestamp) checks, it shouldn't be possible to trivially mod timestamps
 285 2011-09-03 06:14:37 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_timestamp | Jan 13, 2011 ... Each block contains a Unix time timestamp. In addition to serving as a source of variation for the block hash, there are also validity checks, that ...
 286 2011-09-03 06:14:54 <nanotube> well, of course if you have >50%, you can do many things :) not just play with timestamps
 287 2011-09-03 06:15:15 <cjdelisle> if it works then start a pool since everytime the difficulty goes down, everyone gets a payday so every miner would love the idea of gaming the difficulty.
 288 2011-09-03 06:15:42 <cjdelisle> It depends on the asymmetrical difficulty algo though
 289 2011-09-03 06:17:32 SomeoneWeird has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
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 291 2011-09-03 06:18:15 <ThomasV> really, miners should not join pools that have more than 10%
 292 2011-09-03 06:18:37 tomoj has joined
 293 2011-09-03 06:19:11 <lfm> even 1% would mean youd find a block most days
 294 2011-09-03 06:19:31 <ThomasV> yes
 295 2011-09-03 06:20:24 <lfm> and if getting paid almost every day isnt enuf for you you are in sad shape
 296 2011-09-03 06:20:33 <cjdelisle> the manifestation of pools is due to a flaw in the btc design
 297 2011-09-03 06:20:58 <nanotube> you mean, due to a flaw in the design of the average human mind. :)
 298 2011-09-03 06:21:00 <lfm> huh?
 299 2011-09-03 06:21:07 <nanotube> which is too intolerant of variance
 300 2011-09-03 06:21:30 <cjdelisle> Blaming the user is generally not very effective
 301 2011-09-03 06:21:44 <nanotube> but /very/ satisfying.
 302 2011-09-03 06:21:49 <cjdelisle> heh
 303 2011-09-03 06:21:59 <lfm> cjdelisle: human nature isnt really blaming the user
 304 2011-09-03 06:22:16 <ThomasV> we are all intolerant to variance. we call it risk
 305 2011-09-03 06:22:22 <nanotube> cjdelisle: anyway, all the pebkac-ing aside... how would you design it?
 306 2011-09-03 06:22:47 <cjdelisle> p2pool has the right idea but it has scaling issues.
 307 2011-09-03 06:23:55 <nanotube> the 'scaling issues' only come up if p2pool grows to be some really significant fraction of network. in which case it can always bud into separate pools.
 308 2011-09-03 06:24:23 <cjdelisle> I thought of the right design when I was going to bed last night. Nodes are ordered in a dht type structure (nodes are connected to other nodes whose randomly chosen ids are closest) and when they hash a block, it is broadcast out a distance which is a function of the amount of work in that block.
 309 2011-09-03 06:24:55 cypherpunk01 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 310 2011-09-03 06:25:08 <lfm> and humans who were not subject to gambler's falacies would be quite different from "regular" humans. think what a different society we would have without gambling
 311 2011-09-03 06:25:12 <cjdelisle> every node builds on the block it knows of which is the highest amount of work
 312 2011-09-03 06:26:27 <cjdelisle> a block in the "micro-chain" will be rejected if it does not contain all of the transactions from the block before it (thus people doing transactions get near immediet "partial confirmation")
 313 2011-09-03 06:27:38 eoss has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 314 2011-09-03 06:27:48 <cjdelisle> by definition, a block which has a low enough hash to become the next btc block will be broadcast out across the entire dht.
 315 2011-09-03 06:28:18 <lfm> cjdelisle: it sounds like you're making many many little forks
 316 2011-09-03 06:28:25 <cjdelisle> yup
 317 2011-09-03 06:28:42 <cjdelisle> it's the only way to keep network traffic down
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 320 2011-09-03 06:30:06 <lfm> so each block would come at regular fixed intervals and whoever had the "best" proof of work block for that interval "wins"?
 321 2011-09-03 06:31:07 <lfm> by best I mean the most leading zeros or the "smallest" hash
 322 2011-09-03 06:31:17 <cjdelisle> yes
 323 2011-09-03 06:31:33 <cjdelisle> it's up to the miner how much he wants to mine before broadcasting but if he broadcasts a block with very little work then it won't be repeated very far.
 324 2011-09-03 06:31:36 <nanotube> also, how would that help with the variance? would every miniblock have a bounty?
 325 2011-09-03 06:31:59 <nanotube> and would there be any disincentive from broadcasting everything you see?
 326 2011-09-03 06:32:05 <nanotube> i mean, everything you hash?
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 329 2011-09-03 06:32:44 <cjdelisle> yea every miniblock from the last bitcoin block till now would have an accompanying payout in the coinbase transaction
 330 2011-09-03 06:33:18 <cjdelisle> you could broadcast everything you hash but the disincentive is that 99% of it would be dropped at your nearest neighbor.
 331 2011-09-03 06:33:46 <lfm> shares proportional to the best proof of work size you found for that interval?
 332 2011-09-03 06:34:27 <cjdelisle> actually all of the proofs of work which made it into the winning micro-chain
 333 2011-09-03 06:34:55 <cjdelisle> if you mine 10 blocks in the winning chain then you are paid off 10 times.
 334 2011-09-03 06:35:24 <lfm> huh? you are paid per block now!
 335 2011-09-03 06:35:27 <luke-jr> [02:25:27] <cjdelisle> you could broadcast everything you hash but the disincentive is that 99% of it would be dropped at your nearest neighbor.
 336 2011-09-03 06:35:31 <luke-jr> that's not a disincentive
 337 2011-09-03 06:36:20 <cjdelisle> Well most of the time, it's enough to keep people from sending garbage to webservers.
 338 2011-09-03 06:36:38 puhc has joined
 339 2011-09-03 06:36:49 <cjdelisle> But I'm not fixing the problem of DoS today, it's enough that it is pretty ineffective.
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 342 2011-09-03 06:40:20 <cjdelisle> When a node hears about a block, it can either mine on top of it or it can mine a competing block. Mining a competitor would be more profitable but mining on top is more likely to make the chain win. That's a function which every miner will be able to tweak in order to maximize profits.
 343 2011-09-03 06:41:34 <lfm> cjdelisle: you have those options now. and it is always better to mine a new block
 344 2011-09-03 06:42:07 <cjdelisle> paid per block but not every block makes it into the winning chain so only the "fittest" blocks are likely to be paid.
 345 2011-09-03 06:42:49 <lfm> ya but how is it different from what we already have
 346 2011-09-03 06:43:26 <cjdelisle> already have meaning like deepbit and whatnot?
 347 2011-09-03 06:43:43 <lfm> no just the block chain, like soloing
 348 2011-09-03 06:44:06 <cjdelisle> for some reason people don't like solo mining, you'd have to ask them why
 349 2011-09-03 06:44:26 <lfm> but what you're describing sounds like soloing actually
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 352 2011-09-03 06:45:35 <cjdelisle> if the average microchain has 600 blocks then you are 600 times as likely to get a block in to it as plain solo.
 353 2011-09-03 06:47:16 <lfm> so can one miner get multiple miniblocks?
 354 2011-09-03 06:47:21 <Matth1a3> jgarzik: ok to PM you?
 355 2011-09-03 06:47:26 <cjdelisle> yes
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 357 2011-09-03 06:47:47 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: I'm kinda going to sleep now, but you seem to be describing p2pool
 358 2011-09-03 06:48:04 <cjdelisle> yes, p2pool without netowrk contension
 359 2011-09-03 06:48:21 <luke-jr> also, note that it's not entirely true that Bitcoin was designed for solo mining
 360 2011-09-03 06:48:39 <luke-jr> pretty sure the original plans assumed relatively few miners, just enough to keep it secure
 361 2011-09-03 06:48:58 <luke-jr> since there was talk about cutting deals with "big miners" for bulk transactions etc
 362 2011-09-03 06:49:03 <luke-jr> and that's really only possible with pools now
 363 2011-09-03 06:49:07 <lfm> ya, Im nor sure if Satoshi forsaw pools or not
 364 2011-09-03 06:49:24 <luke-jr> pools are just "big miners" in this case
 365 2011-09-03 06:49:32 <luke-jr> admittedly, Deepbit is too big
 366 2011-09-03 06:49:36 <lfm> He maybe assumed they would not be popular due to the overhead
 367 2011-09-03 06:49:57 puhc has joined
 368 2011-09-03 06:50:00 <luke-jr> but you can't have private deals with "big miners" if there's so many miners that they're all small
 369 2011-09-03 06:50:01 <luke-jr> ;)
 370 2011-09-03 06:50:30 <apoelstra> ;;ticker
 371 2011-09-03 06:50:31 <gribble> Best bid: 8.5, Best ask: 8.594, Bid-ask spread: 0.094, Last trade: 8.5, 24 hour volume: 15067, 24 hour low: 8.25, 24 hour high: 8.7138
 372 2011-09-03 06:50:40 puhc has quit (Client Quit)
 373 2011-09-03 06:50:43 <luke-jr> and for another example, I plan to have Eligius accept proof-of-work in lieu of txn fees
 374 2011-09-03 06:51:01 <cjdelisle> since the chains in my design would naturally converge, there isn'y the normal limit from network contension, multiple blocks per second is a possibility.
 375 2011-09-03 06:51:01 <lfm> huh?
 376 2011-09-03 06:51:06 <luke-jr> ok, that's not really an example relevant here, nm
 377 2011-09-03 06:51:14 <cjdelisle> interesting idea though
 378 2011-09-03 06:51:49 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: are you describing the png I posted earlier?
 379 2011-09-03 06:51:50 <luke-jr> :p
 380 2011-09-03 06:51:59 <cjdelisle> link?
 381 2011-09-03 06:52:06 <luke-jr>  http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/newcc.png
 382 2011-09-03 06:52:18 kreal has joined
 383 2011-09-03 06:52:32 <luke-jr> srsly, going to bed now tho :P
 384 2011-09-03 06:52:37 <cjdelisle> gnight
 385 2011-09-03 06:52:38 <lfm> k bye
 386 2011-09-03 06:52:49 puhc has joined
 387 2011-09-03 06:53:24 <cjdelisle> I was confusing myself when I said "mines on top of the block with most work" it should be "mines on top of the chain with most work".
 388 2011-09-03 06:53:57 <apoelstra> how long would it be before transactions were "set in stone" though?
 389 2011-09-03 06:54:21 <cjdelisle> same 60 minutes
 390 2011-09-03 06:54:28 <apoelstra> it seems like if parts of the network didn't talk to each other, there is a risk of several chains becoming long
 391 2011-09-03 06:54:32 <cjdelisle> but you would have some assurance before that
 392 2011-09-03 06:54:36 <apoelstra> and a lot of txns becoming invalid
 393 2011-09-03 06:54:53 <cjdelisle> every time a btc block comes out, everything resets
 394 2011-09-03 06:55:17 <apoelstra> yeah, but we have 10 minutes for everyone to get the message
 395 2011-09-03 06:55:24 <lfm> apoelstra: yup, but it is pretty easy to join sub-nets back together too
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 397 2011-09-03 06:56:20 <apoelstra> wouldn't that ease allow double-spending too?
 398 2011-09-03 06:56:48 <lfm> apoelstra: so as soon as someone notices almost there will be probably obvious way to rejoin them
 399 2011-09-03 06:57:27 <lfm> apoelstra: well it may be harder than you think to isolate two groups but yes, it could allow double spending
 400 2011-09-03 06:57:47 <cjdelisle> unless people wait for at least 1 or 2 btc blocks
 401 2011-09-03 06:58:03 bobd0bb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 402 2011-09-03 06:58:25 <cjdelisle> buying a soda --> instant "semi confirmation"    buying a car --> better wait 6 full blocks
 403 2011-09-03 06:59:04 <lfm> well ya, you would need to keep them separated for the "confirmation period" whether it is 1 or 2 blocks or 6, whatever the nodes your attacking are using
 404 2011-09-03 06:59:56 <lfm> note too that when you split the net the two subnets will be finding blocks more slowly than a united net would
 405 2011-09-03 07:00:11 Daniel0108 has joined
 406 2011-09-03 07:00:25 <cjdelisle> doesn't really work since the everyone resets when a btc block is found so any attack that would work on this would work without it.
 407 2011-09-03 07:01:19 <cjdelisle> Sorry I don't have a good explaination of the whole thing, I'm trying to describe something that knd of came to me and I don't have any kind of rfc or paper on it. I realize that my description wandered a bit and I said a few things that are not quite correct.
 408 2011-09-03 07:01:46 shsmith has joined
 409 2011-09-03 07:01:58 <lfm> cjdelisle: ya, youd prolly need to write a white paper to do it justice
 410 2011-09-03 07:01:58 <apoelstra> well, i'd be happy to read a paper
 411 2011-09-03 07:01:58 shsmith has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 412 2011-09-03 07:02:20 <apoelstra> but it seems to me that just setting the btc block frequency to 30 secs
 413 2011-09-03 07:02:36 <apoelstra> and hoping the network will become powerful enough for 30 sec POW to be useful
 414 2011-09-03 07:02:40 <apoelstra> would accomplish the same end
 415 2011-09-03 07:02:41 <cjdelisle> no, actually sub 1 second
 416 2011-09-03 07:03:01 <apoelstra> well, that sounds like massive overhead
 417 2011-09-03 07:03:11 <lfm> apoelstra: he sez he wants 500-600 rewards per block
 418 2011-09-03 07:03:14 <apoelstra> there is more than one second latency just pinging around the work
 419 2011-09-03 07:03:24 <apoelstra> world*
 420 2011-09-03 07:03:45 <lfm> apoelstra: but still only 6 blocks per hour
 421 2011-09-03 07:03:46 <cjdelisle> it's ol as long as you tolerate massive forking
 422 2011-09-03 07:03:53 <cjdelisle> *ok
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 424 2011-09-03 07:04:24 <apoelstra> i don't think we can tolerate massive forking - every fork divides network power
 425 2011-09-03 07:04:34 <apoelstra> since anyone mining onto a dead chain, wastes their work
 426 2011-09-03 07:04:50 puhc has joined
 427 2011-09-03 07:05:02 <cjdelisle> actually it doesn't because everyone is mining 2 chains at the same time
 428 2011-09-03 07:05:19 <cjdelisle> they're mining the bitcoin chain and they're mining the massively forked microchain
 429 2011-09-03 07:05:32 <lfm> ok I didnt see that comming
 430 2011-09-03 07:05:59 <apoelstra> but the microchain will still be wasting tons of work on all its forks
 431 2011-09-03 07:06:00 <cjdelisle> every block in the microchain is a potentially valid bitcoin block as per p2pool
 432 2011-09-03 07:06:21 <apoelstra> so it could be overpowered by a dedicated attacker, who doesn't bother forking
 433 2011-09-03 07:06:55 <cjdelisle> then he is a solo miner
 434 2011-09-03 07:07:06 <lfm> yup, just seems like youre inventing a new massivly inneficient pool
 435 2011-09-03 07:07:42 <cjdelisle> think mreged mining
 436 2011-09-03 07:07:45 <cjdelisle> *mreged
 437 2011-09-03 07:07:48 <cjdelisle> fuck
 438 2011-09-03 07:07:54 <cjdelisle> merged
 439 2011-09-03 07:07:55 <apoelstra> :)
 440 2011-09-03 07:08:36 <cjdelisle> you can be wasting tons of power because namecoin is forked to hell but every hash is still 100% valuble as a bitcoin hash
 441 2011-09-03 07:10:57 huk has joined
 442 2011-09-03 07:11:19 <apoelstra> bitcoin hashes are sha1sums of bitcoin blocks
 443 2011-09-03 07:11:34 <lfm> apoelstra: nope, sha256
 444 2011-09-03 07:11:34 <apoelstra> so, i don't see how they can be simultaneously hashing microblocks
 445 2011-09-03 07:11:35 puhc has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 446 2011-09-03 07:11:42 <apoelstra> that's not my point
 447 2011-09-03 07:12:18 mnass_ has joined
 448 2011-09-03 07:12:31 <lfm> apoelstra: I suspect cjdelisle doesnt know how that can be either
 449 2011-09-03 07:12:40 coderrr`brb has quit (Excess Flood)
 450 2011-09-03 07:12:50 <cjdelisle> apoelstra: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Alternative_Chains
 451 2011-09-03 07:13:01 coderrr`brb has joined
 452 2011-09-03 07:13:29 <apoelstra> alternate chains do not have hashes that are useful as bitcoin hashes
 453 2011-09-03 07:13:53 <cjdelisle> I got stuff to do, chat later
 454 2011-09-03 07:14:15 <lfm> hehe ok bye
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 466 2011-09-03 07:50:17 <tomoj> just hash once, but compare to different targets, right?
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 484 2011-09-03 08:47:59 <cjdelisle> Hey look, September third!  Christmas is just around the corner.
 485 2011-09-03 08:49:58 <cjdelisle> tomoj: if you're asking about my proposal, correct.
 486 2011-09-03 08:50:47 <cjdelisle> You're comparing to the microchain target but if by luck it is way way above the microshain target, it wins the bitcoin target and it becomes the next official block.
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 493 2011-09-03 09:12:14 <cuqa> hey, can you somehow filter the list of transactions not only by account, but also by type of transaction .. e.g. send, generate, immature, receive
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 518 2011-09-03 10:35:28 <UukGoblin> huhu, 0.4.0 is coming
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 527 2011-09-03 11:07:42 <ThomasV> UukGoblin: huhu, Solidcoin 1.04 is coming too :-)
 528 2011-09-03 11:08:05 <ThomasV> well, according to https://scexchange.bitparking.com/main
 529 2011-09-03 11:09:03 <UukGoblin> ThomasV, what's their current difficulty?
 530 2011-09-03 11:09:12 <ThomasV> no idea
 531 2011-09-03 11:09:19 <doublec> ThomasV: I don't know if it's coming, but I'm waiting for it
 532 2011-09-03 11:09:32 <UukGoblin> lol, a compulsory bugfix, how apt
 533 2011-09-03 11:09:44 <doublec> UukGoblin: 16010 is difficulty
 534 2011-09-03 11:09:44 <ThomasV> doublec: can you unban me from #solidcoin ? please ?
 535 2011-09-03 11:10:02 <doublec> ThomasV: let me see if I can work out how (n00b at channels)
 536 2011-09-03 11:10:12 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,altprofit 32 0.00950000 16010
 537 2011-09-03 11:10:13 <gribble> The other chain, with 32 coins per block, price of 0.00950000 BTC per coin, and supplied difficulty of 16010, is 0.675132345444 times as profitable as mining bitcoin directly, which is currently at 50 BTC per block and difficulty of 1777774.4820015 .
 538 2011-09-03 11:14:55 MrTiggrAFK is now known as MrTiggr
 539 2011-09-03 11:18:15 <SomeoneWeird> doublec, /mode <#chan> -b <user>
 540 2011-09-03 11:18:51 fnord0 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 541 2011-09-03 11:22:02 <doublec> ThomasV: done
 542 2011-09-03 11:22:04 <doublec> thanks SomeoneWeird
 543 2011-09-03 11:22:13 <ThomasV> thank you so much
 544 2011-09-03 11:22:54 <doublec> np
 545 2011-09-03 11:25:42 <cjdelisle> Also in most irc clients you can do /unban nick
 546 2011-09-03 11:25:50 <cjdelisle> or /unban *
 547 2011-09-03 11:26:10 <ThomasV> oh that would unban luke-jr too :-)
 548 2011-09-03 11:27:06 <cjdelisle> Yea, I figure it makes sense to flush bans every so often since people forgive and forget, ircds remember forever.
 549 2011-09-03 11:29:10 MrTiggr is now known as MrTiggrAFK
 550 2011-09-03 11:29:26 <ThomasV> I hope they forgave me
 551 2011-09-03 11:31:00 <UukGoblin> lol what did you guys do to deserve a ban on such a reputable channel? ;-)
 552 2011-09-03 11:31:30 fnord0 has joined
 553 2011-09-03 11:31:48 <ThomasV> I tried to borrow some solidcoins
 554 2011-09-03 11:33:24 <ThomasV> I reckon that this was not appropriate
 555 2011-09-03 11:34:05 <UukGoblin> huh
 556 2011-09-03 11:38:18 <ThomasV> UukGoblin: http://pastebin.com/TSqvFLzD
 557 2011-09-03 11:39:11 x11_away is now known as x11
 558 2011-09-03 11:40:26 <UukGoblin> lol wth is it with people accusing everyone of trolls
 559 2011-09-03 11:40:31 <UukGoblin> looks like it's some new trend
 560 2011-09-03 11:40:40 <UukGoblin> he asked a question! he's a troll!
 561 2011-09-03 11:43:35 WakiMiko_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 562 2011-09-03 11:44:37 <ThomasV> oh I like Art: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=41113.msg501363#msg501363
 563 2011-09-03 11:45:06 WakiMiko has joined
 564 2011-09-03 11:46:35 <UukGoblin> hahah pwn
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 566 2011-09-03 11:54:05 <noagendamarket> Art does have a point. He told him about it ages ago
 567 2011-09-03 11:55:01 <cjdelisle> Nice post
 568 2011-09-03 11:55:20 <cjdelisle> "Bitcoin is buggy as hell." and "hopefully karma works it out." in one post. Congrats.
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 572 2011-09-03 12:01:07 <edcba> buggy as hell ?
 573 2011-09-03 12:01:47 <cjdelisle> it's messy as hell but if it was buggy then I think people would be having fun with it and they aren't so far.
 574 2011-09-03 12:02:08 <edcba> what is solidcoin ?
 575 2011-09-03 12:03:44 <cjdelisle> it's a fork with a different difficulty metric
 576 2011-09-03 12:04:15 Lopuz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 577 2011-09-03 12:04:20 <cjdelisle> and fixed transaction fees
 578 2011-09-03 12:04:27 <cjdelisle> and unlimited size transactions
 579 2011-09-03 12:04:29 <cjdelisle> lulz
 580 2011-09-03 12:05:15 <edcba> 3 minutes block ?
 581 2011-09-03 12:05:21 <edcba> damn still too long lol
 582 2011-09-03 12:09:34 <ThomasV> hmm sorry I trolled again
 583 2011-09-03 12:10:08 <UukGoblin> hahah
 584 2011-09-03 12:10:30 phungus has joined
 585 2011-09-03 12:11:15 <ThomasV> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=41127.msg501394#msg501394
 586 2011-09-03 12:11:43 <ThomasV> wow, I was banned almost instantly from their channel ; I dod not even write to it
 587 2011-09-03 12:14:43 <UukGoblin> ThomasV, rotfl
 588 2011-09-03 12:16:42 <SomeoneWeird> lawl
 589 2011-09-03 12:16:44 <UukGoblin> they were inserting pre-mined blocks in the chain?
 590 2011-09-03 12:16:49 <ThomasV> omg! solidcoin prices are going down!
 591 2011-09-03 12:16:55 <SomeoneWeird> ThomasV, you didn't write that post?
 592 2011-09-03 12:17:20 <ThomasV> SomeoneWeird: I'm afraid I did
 593 2011-09-03 12:17:41 <SomeoneWeird> ok
 594 2011-09-03 12:17:48 <SomeoneWeird> whyd you say you didn't then?
 595 2011-09-03 12:17:48 <SomeoneWeird> -.-
 596 2011-09-03 12:17:52 asher^ has joined
 597 2011-09-03 12:17:59 <cjdelisle> lolz
 598 2011-09-03 12:18:15 <ThomasV> SomeoneWeird: huh? I did say it
 599 2011-09-03 12:18:25 <SomeoneWeird> "I dod not even write to it"
 600 2011-09-03 12:19:15 <ThomasV> oh, no, that was about their irc channel. realsolid banned me again, even though I did not write to the channel
 601 2011-09-03 12:19:16 <phungus> write to it
 602 2011-09-03 12:19:24 <phungus> "I dod not even write to it"
 603 2011-09-03 12:21:05 Lopuz has joined
 604 2011-09-03 12:21:57 <UukGoblin> I think the message is clear: he doesn't like you
 605 2011-09-03 12:22:46 <ThomasV> my last forum posts are very much pro-solidcoin, however
 606 2011-09-03 12:22:47 <UukGoblin> I'd risk a guess that he doesn't like anyone who tries to undermine his project
 607 2011-09-03 12:23:57 <cjdelisle> undermine is a unfriendly word. Let's call it stress testing :)
 608 2011-09-03 12:24:18 <ThomasV> UukGoblin: re bounties: "30000 SolidCoins were mined prior to public release so that bounties could be provided to encourage developers to work with SolidCoins."
 609 2011-09-03 12:24:59 <ThomasV> this is from http://www.solidcoin.info/bounties.php
 610 2011-09-03 12:25:03 <doublec> UukGoblin: quite a few have been given out
 611 2011-09-03 12:25:18 <UukGoblin> ThomasV, oh, that nicely contradicts the original statement that mining has started 5 minutes after official release
 612 2011-09-03 12:25:25 <ThomasV> doublec: I was banned again :-(
 613 2011-09-03 12:25:46 <ThomasV> UukGoblin: no! do not troll!!!
 614 2011-09-03 12:25:46 <doublec> ThomasV: yeah I saw, sorry
 615 2011-09-03 12:26:07 <doublec> UukGoblin: he's been very open about the pre-mined bounties
 616 2011-09-03 12:26:20 <doublec> UukGoblin: and they're all held in an address that's been made public
 617 2011-09-03 12:26:37 <UukGoblin> yeah, I recall something about them, I just didn't read up about it
 618 2011-09-03 12:26:38 <ThomasV> yes, there is mining and pre-mining. these are different things
 619 2011-09-03 12:26:48 <ThomasV> very different.
 620 2011-09-03 12:28:16 <tcatm> I wonder why people pre-mine when they could just "hardcode" those initial coins.
 621 2011-09-03 12:28:16 <Blitzboom> ethically maybe
 622 2011-09-03 12:28:20 <Blitzboom> result is the same
 623 2011-09-03 12:29:30 <ThomasV> anyway, so long for solidcoin..
 624 2011-09-03 12:31:38 Gekz has joined
 625 2011-09-03 12:33:06 <tcatm> ;;later tell BlueMatt no need to mirror the chain, you can just link to them as the server has enough bandwidth. the cronjob runs at midnight UTC. could you tell me how you signed the archives? I think it's best if the server would sign the archives, probably with an easily revocable key in case something goes wrong...
 626 2011-09-03 12:33:06 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
 627 2011-09-03 12:34:54 <edcba> i doubt solidcoins will catch up
 628 2011-09-03 12:35:31 <edcba> even if right now it's a bit better than bitcoin
 629 2011-09-03 12:37:14 <ThomasV> it is not decentralized
 630 2011-09-03 12:39:56 <ThomasV> ok, let me ask again, just in case: does someone know about a clothing shop that accepts bitcoin, located in florida iirc. I mean a real shop, not an online shop. I saw it somewhere, but it is not listed on the trade page.
 631 2011-09-03 12:40:03 <ThomasV> I want to add it to the map
 632 2011-09-03 12:40:28 <ThomasV> I saw it a few weeks ago
 633 2011-09-03 12:43:02 Phoebus has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 634 2011-09-03 12:46:25 bittwist_ has joined
 635 2011-09-03 12:48:05 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas adl_support * re9b5885ebed1 cgminer/ (adl.c main.c miner.h): Add a gpu autotune option which adjusts GPU speed to maintain a target temperature within the bounds of the default GPU speed and any overclocking set.
 636 2011-09-03 12:49:42 bittwist has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 637 2011-09-03 12:54:17 davex__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 638 2011-09-03 12:55:14 <phungus> Ron Jon's Surf Shop
 639 2011-09-03 12:55:23 <phungus> go talk em into taking bitcoins
 640 2011-09-03 12:59:11 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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 644 2011-09-03 13:02:30 Titeuf_87 has joined
 645 2011-09-03 13:04:35 <soap> that's a name I haven't heard for decades.
 646 2011-09-03 13:06:35 <soap> is RJSS still around and still an independent company?
 647 2011-09-03 13:06:44 <soap> looked it up.  Yes and yes.
 648 2011-09-03 13:08:33 sytse_ is now known as sytse
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 657 2011-09-03 13:25:15 <phungus> was last time I drove along the southern coast
 658 2011-09-03 13:25:18 <phungus> yah
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 673 2011-09-03 13:49:10 <doublec> any C++ devs able to check an oddness in bitcoin I'm stumbling across?
 674 2011-09-03 13:49:10 shirtwalk has joined
 675 2011-09-03 13:49:55 <doublec> CreateTransaction in wallet.cpp has the following code about 'limiting size':
 676 2011-09-03 13:50:20 <doublec> ::GetSerializeSize(*(CTransaction*)&wtxNew, SER_NETWORK)
 677 2011-09-03 13:50:31 <doublec> this is used in size/priority calculations
 678 2011-09-03 13:50:36 <doublec> wtxNew is a CWalletTxn
 679 2011-09-03 13:50:55 <doublec> it looks to me the intent is to use the size of the transaction, without the additional size of the extra stuff used in the wallet
 680 2011-09-03 13:50:58 <doublec> (from the casting)
 681 2011-09-03 13:51:03 <doublec> but this casting does nothing, right?
 682 2011-09-03 13:51:11 <doublec> It will still pass a reference to the most derived class
 683 2011-09-03 13:51:16 <doublec> The CWalletTxn
 684 2011-09-03 13:51:21 <doublec> so it's using the wrong size in the calculation?
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 688 2011-09-03 13:54:27 <doublec> This line specifically: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/wallet.cpp#L979
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 696 2011-09-03 14:04:55 <doublec> n/m emailed the developer list about it
 697 2011-09-03 14:05:45 Matth1a3 has joined
 698 2011-09-03 14:08:07 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r1898d851e57b cgminer/main.c: Avoid a dereference if the longpoll thread doesn't exist.
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 702 2011-09-03 14:14:56 <upb> doublec: but it will invoke GetSerializeSize that is specialized to the first argument being a CTransaction
 703 2011-09-03 14:15:13 <upb> that is the point imo
 704 2011-09-03 14:15:16 <doublec> upb: it doesn't, it calls the most derived class version
 705 2011-09-03 14:15:21 <doublec> that cast doesn't actually do anything
 706 2011-09-03 14:15:26 <upb> hmmmm?
 707 2011-09-03 14:15:29 <upb> let me test
 708 2011-09-03 14:15:33 <doublec> upb: http://pastebin.com/JBsTBGxx
 709 2011-09-03 14:15:38 <doublec> what does the 2nd mydoit do?
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 714 2011-09-03 14:18:04 <edcba> i think it does it
 715 2011-09-03 14:18:13 <doublec> heh
 716 2011-09-03 14:18:22 <doublec> I suck at test function names ;)
 717 2011-09-03 14:18:23 <upb> no i think you are wrong i just tested it
 718 2011-09-03 14:18:34 <upb>  ./derieveTest
 719 2011-09-03 14:18:34 <upb> P
 720 2011-09-03 14:18:48 <doublec> it prints derived in both "mydoit" calls in my test
 721 2011-09-03 14:19:01 <upb> http://pastebin.com/1J27BxRD
 722 2011-09-03 14:20:34 erus` has joined
 723 2011-09-03 14:21:19 <doublec> aha, good catch, thanks. The difference I didn't notice is that GetSerializeSize isn't virtual
 724 2011-09-03 14:22:14 <doublec> which is why my pastebin shows the answer it does
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 729 2011-09-03 14:28:06 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas adl_support * rfc36e13d5b8c cgminer/main.c: Merge branch 'master' into adl_support
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 734 2011-09-03 14:29:44 <doublec> obviously I've spent too much time using Java and its friends - assuming everything is virtual
 735 2011-09-03 14:30:56 <sytse> I hope you don't think your girlfriend is virtual
 736 2011-09-03 14:32:40 <doublec> hehe
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 742 2011-09-03 14:37:18 <upb> heh that case doesnt have anything to do with virtual/nonvirtual
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 747 2011-09-03 14:44:48 <doublec> my example did
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 749 2011-09-03 14:45:09 <doublec> upb: this models the code http://pastebin.com/JBsTBGxx
 750 2011-09-03 14:45:16 <doublec> upb: buy I'd made 'doit' virtual
 751 2011-09-03 14:45:19 shLONG has quit ()
 752 2011-09-03 14:45:24 <doublec> s/buy/but
 753 2011-09-03 14:45:58 <doublec> 'doit' being what 'GetSerializeSize' is in bitcoin
 754 2011-09-03 14:46:10 Matth1a3 has joined
 755 2011-09-03 14:46:25 <doublec> and 'mydoit' being the global template 'GetSerializeSize'
 756 2011-09-03 14:47:36 buddhvfg has joined
 757 2011-09-03 14:48:05 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas adl_support * r9b7262ec716a cgminer/ (adl.c adl.h main.c): Clean up by setting performance profiles and fan settings to startup levels on exit.
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 771 2011-09-03 15:13:46 <luke-jr> doublec: you forgot to unban me :|
 772 2011-09-03 15:14:43 <ThomasV> luke-jr: I was rebanned
 773 2011-09-03 15:15:08 <luke-jr> I guess this is what happens when a cryptocurrency gets an appointed king
 774 2011-09-03 15:15:17 <luke-jr> w/king/dictator/
 775 2011-09-03 15:15:20 <luke-jr> s*
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 777 2011-09-03 15:15:50 <luke-jr> isn't SC the one that requires a license to mine anyway?
 778 2011-09-03 15:15:58 <doublec> no
 779 2011-09-03 15:16:06 <luke-jr> oh
 780 2011-09-03 15:16:08 <luke-jr> which one was that
 781 2011-09-03 15:16:09 Matth1a3 has joined
 782 2011-09-03 15:16:09 <doublec> you're thinking of sacarlson's chains
 783 2011-09-03 15:16:34 <luke-jr> doublec: anyhow, I don't appreciate being banned
 784 2011-09-03 15:16:46 <doublec> I'm sure RealSolid would be keen on the idea however
 785 2011-09-03 15:16:56 <doublec> luke-jr: I didn't ban you
 786 2011-09-03 15:17:04 <luke-jr> doublec: RealSolid did. with no reason.
 787 2011-09-03 15:17:13 <doublec> luke-jr: if I unban you, he'll just ban you again
 788 2011-09-03 15:17:22 <luke-jr> [01:08:11] --> Hans_ has joined this channel (cee18428@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.225.132.40).
 789 2011-09-03 15:17:24 <luke-jr> [01:13:43] ⁂ RealSolid sets mode: +b *!*@2001:470:5:265:222:4dff:fe50:4c49
 790 2011-09-03 15:17:25 <ThomasV> not necessarily
 791 2011-09-03 15:17:45 <luke-jr> absolutely nothing at all for 5 mins prior to my ban -.-
 792 2011-09-03 15:17:51 <ThomasV> I was banned again because I posted something in the forum
 793 2011-09-03 15:17:53 Silverpike has joined
 794 2011-09-03 15:17:53 <luke-jr> (though he did op me immediately before banning)
 795 2011-09-03 15:17:53 <doublec> who is Hans_
 796 2011-09-03 15:18:05 <luke-jr> doublec: no idea, I pasted it for timestamp
 797 2011-09-03 15:18:17 <ThomasV> if you do not opst in the forum, you might not get banned
 798 2011-09-03 15:18:22 <ThomasV> *post
 799 2011-09-03 15:18:46 <ThomasV> it's worth trying
 800 2011-09-03 15:19:28 <ThomasV> luke-jr: this is how I got banned again: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=41127.msg501394#msg501394
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 810 2011-09-03 15:32:14 <Eliel> is there any python code out there that can sign/verify individual transactions?
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 813 2011-09-03 15:38:14 <CIA-101> bitcoin: various boost_fs3 * ra687d4..2f8f51 bitcoind-personal/ (49 files in 13 dirs): (51 commits)
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 816 2011-09-03 15:40:07 gavinandresen has joined
 817 2011-09-03 15:40:32 <gavinandresen> Good morning (ugt) everybody
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 821 2011-09-03 15:44:42 <ThomasV> hi gavinandresen
 822 2011-09-03 15:44:44 <Eliel> good morning :)
 823 2011-09-03 15:45:09 <Eliel> do you know of any python code that can do transaction signature verification and/or signing?
 824 2011-09-03 15:45:22 Matth1a3 has joined
 825 2011-09-03 15:46:32 * Eliel is trying to build a prototype offline wallet system.
 826 2011-09-03 15:48:28 <ThomasV> Eliel: did you try bitcointools ?
 827 2011-09-03 15:48:46 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: ASCII a stupid question, get a stupid ANSI!)
 828 2011-09-03 15:48:54 <ThomasV> not sure what it does
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 833 2011-09-03 15:55:10 <Eliel> ThomasV: I didnt look at that directly. I did look at pywallet thoug, it didnt have it.
 834 2011-09-03 15:55:35 <ThomasV> https://github.com/gavinandresen/bitcointools
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 837 2011-09-03 15:58:21 <Eliel> ThomasV: doesn't look like it does
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 841 2011-09-03 16:01:05 <UukGoblin> my latest bitcoind just locked up...
 842 2011-09-03 16:01:12 <UukGoblin> doesn't use CPU but can't contact it via RPC
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 844 2011-09-03 16:01:28 <gavinandresen> Latest from top-of-git?
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 847 2011-09-03 16:01:41 <UukGoblin> gavinandresen, yes, with a getmemorypool patch, actually
 848 2011-09-03 16:02:02 <UukGoblin> 7464e6 + the getmemorypool
 849 2011-09-03 16:02:20 <UukGoblin> 0.3.24 has been dying with p2pool earlier, but I didn't see a lockup like that before
 850 2011-09-03 16:02:27 <gavinandresen> Recompile with -DDEBUG_LOCKORDER  and then if it happens again send me the debug.log
 851 2011-09-03 16:02:36 <tcatm> gavinandresen: did you contact sirius yet for changing the DNS of bitcoin.org? if not I'm going to email him now.
 852 2011-09-03 16:02:36 <UukGoblin> ok
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 856 2011-09-03 16:02:51 <gavinandresen> tcatm: go for it
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 858 2011-09-03 16:05:26 <ThomasV> UukGoblin, gavinandresen : my bitcoind too :-/
 859 2011-09-03 16:05:51 <ThomasV> I started it 4 days ago
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 861 2011-09-03 16:06:40 <gavinandresen> UukGoblin ThomasV : what are your bitcoind's being used for-- what type of RPC calls are they getting?  I can setup stress tests if I know what to test for...
 862 2011-09-03 16:07:06 <ThomasV> gavinandresen: for nothing
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 864 2011-09-03 16:07:37 <ThomasV> it was idle
 865 2011-09-03 16:07:52 <UukGoblin> gavinandresen, regular getworks from diablominer, also getmemorypool/getworks from p2pool, and getinfo from my console every now and then
 866 2011-09-03 16:07:54 <gavinandresen> hrmmmm....   "run for four days and RPC dies" is going to be hard to test....
 867 2011-09-03 16:08:05 <gavinandresen> UukGoblin: thanks
 868 2011-09-03 16:08:11 <UukGoblin> gavinandresen, bitcoind was dying with p2pool earlier (0.3.24) as well, without the getmemorypool patch applied
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 870 2011-09-03 16:08:23 <ThomasV> I might have sent one tx on the first day
 871 2011-09-03 16:08:39 <ThomasV> not sure if it was restarted after that
 872 2011-09-03 16:09:37 <ThomasV> gavinandresen: it used to die way earlier with the previous version
 873 2011-09-03 16:09:56 <gavinandresen> ThomasV: what OS?
 874 2011-09-03 16:10:01 <ThomasV> ubuntu
 875 2011-09-03 16:10:09 <ThomasV> 11.04
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 877 2011-09-03 16:12:43 <ThomasV> oh, and I compiled without upnp
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 879 2011-09-03 16:13:51 <UukGoblin> yeah I had upnp defined as USE_UPNP= as well
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 908 2011-09-03 16:48:03 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Devon Badman * rc26134..67a8bd pycoin/network.py: (5 commits)
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 923 2011-09-03 17:05:42 <prax> quick question on email headers.. I just want to be 100%
 924 2011-09-03 17:05:47 <prax> If as part of an email header I got "Received: from unknown (XX.XXX.90.177)", I can be sure this is the senders IP right?
 925 2011-09-03 17:06:17 <prax> or.. If I think it is the same person as I already have the same IP for and it matches I can be sure it is really then right
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 927 2011-09-03 17:06:34 <prax> (I know you can fake them otehrwise) I think this guy just doesn;t realize I can line things up
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 929 2011-09-03 17:07:45 <Eliel> prax: the ip being different doesn't prove anything but if the ip is the same, that's quite unlikely to happen for two different people unless they use the same computer.
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 938 2011-09-03 17:18:14 <prax> Right Eliel thanks. There's also some online things to parse it, spit out the pertinent IP and geolocate and it matched up, just wanted to ask.
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 940 2011-09-03 17:18:45 <prax> Now I just need to write up an epic trainwreck post because this guy deserves it
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 960 2011-09-03 17:40:44 <andyroo> ;;ticker
 961 2011-09-03 17:40:45 <gribble> Best bid: 8.52, Best ask: 8.53, Bid-ask spread: 0.01, Last trade: 8.52, 24 hour volume: 12547, 24 hour low: 8.36307, 24 hour high: 8.7138
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 983 2011-09-03 18:08:07 <CIA-101> bitcoin: aldiyen * r70558ccd3fc8 Phoenix-Miner-personal/ (ConsoleLogger.py Miner.py WorkQueue.py phoenix.py): New status format; new option to disable erasing and erdrawing when outputting status; track getworks, displaying a count and efficiency % when verbose (new status format only)
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1008 2011-09-03 18:46:02 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-lib: Stefan Thomas master * re8fba13 / (test/index.html test/test.js): Added more tests. - http://git.io/KJYASQ
1009 2011-09-03 18:46:02 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-lib: Stefan Thomas master * r77debc1 / (4 files in 2 dirs): Added Paillier and ECDSA split signing demo. - http://git.io/QR0KSg
1010 2011-09-03 18:46:02 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-lib: Stefan Thomas master * r50b13d2 / (4 files in 3 dirs): More work on split key protocol. - http://git.io/e7aM_g
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1050 2011-09-03 19:32:40 <diki> in which file was the block amount set?
1051 2011-09-03 19:32:47 <diki> in the bitcoin source
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1057 2011-09-03 19:40:15 <diki> someone???
1058 2011-09-03 19:40:48 <lianj> whats the block amount?
1059 2011-09-03 19:40:52 <lianj> maybe grep knows
1060 2011-09-03 19:40:57 <diki> reward per block
1061 2011-09-03 19:41:11 <lianj> grep for it
1062 2011-09-03 19:41:17 <diki> i use windows
1063 2011-09-03 19:41:23 <diki> plus, its in satoshis
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1066 2011-09-03 19:43:39 <gavinandresen> main.cpp:    int64 nSubsidy = 50 * COIN;
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1068 2011-09-03 19:44:40 <diki> shouldnt you guys move that to the top of main.cpp?
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1105 2011-09-03 20:37:23 <yebyen> ;;bc,calc 2900
1106 2011-09-03 20:37:24 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2900 Khps, given current difficulty of 1777774.4820015 , is 83 years, 25 weeks, 3 days, 16 hours, 7 minutes, and 42 seconds
1107 2011-09-03 20:37:34 <yebyen> ;;bc,calc 2900000
1108 2011-09-03 20:37:35 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2900000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1777774.4820015 , is 4 weeks, 2 days, 11 hours, 22 minutes, and 5 seconds
1109 2011-09-03 20:37:52 <yebyen> hmm
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1111 2011-09-03 20:38:05 <yebyen> time to make an investment
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1159 2011-09-03 21:28:10 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas adl_support * r847adf689bcd cgminer/adl.c: Add a small amount of hysteresis before lowering clock speed.
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1167 2011-09-03 21:34:29 <andyroo> ;;ticker
1168 2011-09-03 21:34:30 <gribble> Best bid: 8.432, Best ask: 8.45635, Bid-ask spread: 0.02435, Last trade: 8.45635, 24 hour volume: 11256, 24 hour low: 8.36307, 24 hour high: 8.7138
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1173 2011-09-03 21:38:08 <CIA-101> bitcoin: aldiyen * r92e830de4c4d Phoenix-Miner-personal/ConsoleLogger.py: Fixed bug with reported reject rate
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1185 2011-09-03 21:48:07 <CIA-101> bitcoin: aldiyen * r1871d611f42e Phoenix-Miner-personal/Miner.py: Increment version to 0.2.1
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1187 2011-09-03 21:49:34 <nexes> Does anyone happen to know of a bitcoin branch someone may have created which allows a user to sign a transaction outside client, then submit it to the client via RPC to be processed?
1188 2011-09-03 21:51:44 <ThomasV> nexes: no, but I would be interested
1189 2011-09-03 21:52:53 <makomk> nanotube: by the way, the clever thing about ArtForz's timestamp attack on SolidCoin seems that after artificially increasing the time between blocks (resulting in a timestamp too far  into the future to be accepted) you can decrease the fake time between blocks to 1s and difficulty will adjust up much slower than it adjusts down.
1190 2011-09-03 21:53:07 <Eliel> nexes: I'm actually working on proof of concept for that right now.
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1192 2011-09-03 21:53:24 <nexes> Eliel: That would be excellent. :)
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1194 2011-09-03 21:53:59 <nexes> I have Java code to build and sign transactions, but I can't just submit them via RPC to the official client.
1195 2011-09-03 21:54:05 <Sthebig> eading now
1196 2011-09-03 21:54:07 <Eliel> nexes: I hadn't thought of submitting it through RPC though, but that would be trivial addition.
1197 2011-09-03 21:54:15 <Sthebig> finally managed to pull it up on the phone
1198 2011-09-03 21:54:25 <nexes> I think I could modify bitcoinj for that purpose, but I'm not sure how I feel about using that as a server, as it's only using simple verification..
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1200 2011-09-03 21:54:34 <Sthebig> What the heck? sorry, wrong channel..
1201 2011-09-03 21:54:45 <nexes> Eliel: What were you working on then?
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1204 2011-09-03 21:55:08 <makomk> So a 51% attacker can mine blocks with timestamps until (say) 4 days into the future over a period of 1 day, then mine a whole bunch more blocks with artificially *reduced* delays, and due to the asymetry in SolidCoin's difficulty adjustment they'd end up with far more blocks than they otherwise would once the timestamps become acceptable.
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1206 2011-09-03 21:55:10 <Eliel> nexes: wallet software for offline use.
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1208 2011-09-03 21:55:41 <nexes> Eliel: Ah, okay.
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1211 2011-09-03 21:56:20 <nexes> Eliel: Maybe I should look into working on a branch to do that myself then. Unfortunately, I've never done any C++ dev. :x
1212 2011-09-03 21:57:23 <Eliel> nexes: I was planning on doing it with python but I hit a small snag since there's no code for signing transactions with python. So, I'm reading the 0.4rc1 code that does the signing now :)
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1222 2011-09-03 22:00:18 <nexes> Eliel: Ah. If code to do it in Java would be useful, let me know and I can send it along. If you put up a branch with an rpc call for taking signed transactions though, I'd definitely be interested.
1223 2011-09-03 22:01:34 <Eliel> nexes: but, do you really need RPC call for that? Couldn't you do a "hit&run" on the p2p port, emulate a node for long enough to push the transaction in?
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1226 2011-09-03 22:03:23 <nexes> Eliel: That's an interesting idea, which I suppose would work. I already require a bitcoind to be running for other tasks though, so it seems like less complication to have it all being handled by an actual node.
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1229 2011-09-03 22:04:57 <Eliel> but... if you're creating the transaction through bitcoinj, can't you use that to connect to the network and push the transaction out?
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1232 2011-09-03 22:06:29 <nexes> Eliel: I'm actually not using bitcoinj at the moment, but I suppose I could. I already have a bitcoind running for other things though, so I was hoping to avoid having two nodes running.
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1234 2011-09-03 22:07:56 <bx_> ello
1235 2011-09-03 22:07:58 <bx_> guys
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1237 2011-09-03 22:08:34 <andyroo> heya
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1244 2011-09-03 22:12:55 <nexes> Eliel: I take it back. The bitcoinj source has some examples that have convinced me that the overhead should be pretty negligible. I can just run a simple service which maintains the blockchain and accepts transactions.
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1263 2011-09-03 22:37:16 <iocor> I am building a graph of every bitcoin transaction
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1270 2011-09-03 22:47:27 <lfm> iocor cool. kinda big grapg tho
1271 2011-09-03 22:47:35 <lfm> graph
1272 2011-09-03 22:47:47 <iocor> lfm: I don't know yet
1273 2011-09-03 22:47:50 <iocor> :)
1274 2011-09-03 22:48:12 <lfm> theres been like a million transactions so far
1275 2011-09-03 22:48:38 <lfm> Total number of transactions: 1434790
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1302 2011-09-03 23:42:12 <nanotube> makomk: heh interesting
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