1 2011-09-07 00:00:04 storrgie has joined
   2 2011-09-07 00:00:20 <ymirhotfoot> I do not know much about the Bitcoin blockchain, but it seems that a shorter certicate is possible.
   3 2011-09-07 00:00:28 <genjix> much better to refactor into a cleaner/easier to understand manner, rather than just disable check X (which invalidates everything else)
   4 2011-09-07 00:00:37 <gavinandresen> I agree, I much prefer removing code than adding.  But in this case, it is a one-line change that makes downloading the chain take 6 hours instead of 24 or more
   5 2011-09-07 00:00:50 <ymirhotfoot> naturally, one must think of attacks that maw be more possible with a shorter blockchain.
   6 2011-09-07 00:01:07 <ymirhotfoot> sorter -> shorter
   7 2011-09-07 00:01:17 <genjix> gavinandresen: you can skip the body of accept block too
   8 2011-09-07 00:01:32 <genjix> the important part is near the end where it calls AddTOBlockIndex
   9 2011-09-07 00:01:49 <genjix> then it does a reorganize when calling SetBestChain
  10 2011-09-07 00:02:01 copumpkin has joined
  11 2011-09-07 00:02:10 <ymirhotfoot> Hi, copumpkin!
  12 2011-09-07 00:02:19 d4de has joined
  13 2011-09-07 00:02:23 <genjix> those parts are only what's needed. ConnectInputs really is just 1) doing checks 2) setting vSpent
  14 2011-09-07 00:02:48 <cjdelisle> settled at 181 connections. Just installed a per ip ratelimit and iptables just drops what runs over that on the outgoing, that'll slow the tcp connections down a bit
  15 2011-09-07 00:03:09 BlueMatt has joined
  16 2011-09-07 00:03:16 <cjdelisle> I really should use a random drop target..
  17 2011-09-07 00:03:24 <ymirhotfoot> Hi, BlueMatt!
  18 2011-09-07 00:03:25 <BlueMatt> ;;seen tcatm
  19 2011-09-07 00:03:25 <gribble> tcatm was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 day, 2 hours, 48 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <tcatm> TD: we're using github pages: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.github.com
  20 2011-09-07 00:03:35 <BlueMatt> ymirhotfoot: ...?
  21 2011-09-07 00:03:45 <ymirhotfoot> Is your blockchain stored here service still good?
  22 2011-09-07 00:03:47 clr_ is now known as c00w
  23 2011-09-07 00:04:31 <ymirhotfoot> When I looked at it the stored static blockchain had a date of 10 August 2011, I think.
  24 2011-09-07 00:04:58 <phantomcircuit> cjdelisle, how'd you do that i tried for https ddos protection and it was dropping with reasonable amounts of usage
  25 2011-09-07 00:05:16 <ymirhotfoot> I am just strating to study the beautiful Protocol of Satoshi, and the actual implementation.
  26 2011-09-07 00:05:40 <cjdelisle> just using iptables hackery
  27 2011-09-07 00:05:41 <BlueMatt> yea...its uhh not updating atm...thats why Im looking for tcatm
  28 2011-09-07 00:05:54 <ymirhotfoot> Ah, thanks, BlueMatt.
  29 2011-09-07 00:06:13 <ymirhotfoot> SIDEMERKLE AND SAVE!
  30 2011-09-07 00:06:20 <ymirhotfoot> catchall later
  31 2011-09-07 00:06:21 <BlueMatt> the builds are good, the blockchains are not updating...Im hoping to get it working soon
  32 2011-09-07 00:06:24 <cjdelisle> namely --limit and --hashlimit and in a minute, --statistic so I can simulate RED without all the work =]
  33 2011-09-07 00:06:27 genjix has left ()
  34 2011-09-07 00:06:36 Vladimir has quit (Quit: Page closed)
  35 2011-09-07 00:06:41 <ymirhotfoot> thanks, BlueMatt, later
  36 2011-09-07 00:06:44 ymirhotfoot has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs))
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  38 2011-09-07 00:07:02 <gavinandresen> genjix: right....   so if a user deleted blk* and re-downloaded the chain and/or restored their wallet we still need to ConnectInputs while downloading the new chain to mark transactions spent, add transactions to wallet, etc etc etc.....
  39 2011-09-07 00:07:24 <gavinandresen> genjix:  and what do you mean we can skip teh body of AcceptBlock?  That's where the blockchain lockin check is done
  40 2011-09-07 00:07:25 comboy_ is now known as comboy
  41 2011-09-07 00:08:16 <gavinandresen> grr.  genjix made me waste time doubting myself and then leaves before I can tell him why he's wrong....
  42 2011-09-07 00:08:45 <BlueMatt> hes good at that...
  43 2011-09-07 00:08:46 bitcoinbulletin has quit (Quit: bitcoinbulletin)
  44 2011-09-07 00:08:55 genjix has joined
  45 2011-09-07 00:09:03 <genjix> hey gavinandresen, i'm here :p
  46 2011-09-07 00:09:05 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r058303bcf3dd cgminer/ (adl.c miner.h): Only reset values on exiting if we've ever modified them.
  47 2011-09-07 00:09:06 <Blitzboom> skip teh body man
  48 2011-09-07 00:09:12 <wardearia> ._.
  49 2011-09-07 00:09:34 <genjix> i lurk Freenode, but this channel has too much traffic.
  50 2011-09-07 00:09:35 <gavinandresen> genjix: you see my right... so if a user deleted... comment?
  51 2011-09-07 00:09:58 <genjix> yes someone pasted to me.
  52 2011-09-07 00:10:50 <genjix> gavinandresen: i mean the checks at the beginning of AccpetBlock()
  53 2011-09-07 00:11:29 <genjix> the things below the checkpoints are the next step.
  54 2011-09-07 00:11:43 BTCTrader_ is now known as BTC_away
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  57 2011-09-07 00:12:10 <genjix> then from AddToBlockIndex it's where SetBestChain is called
  58 2011-09-07 00:12:16 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
  59 2011-09-07 00:12:37 <gavinandresen> Those checks are quick
  60 2011-09-07 00:12:55 <genjix> then ConnectBlock
  61 2011-09-07 00:13:38 <genjix> i'm simply saying that maybe it's good think of a nice way to do things :)
  62 2011-09-07 00:14:04 <gavinandresen> Small steps to a much better client is my motto
  63 2011-09-07 00:14:45 <genjix> i think the biggest slowdown is linking the transactions together
  64 2011-09-07 00:15:31 * BlueMatt got the first pull request on bitcoin's website :)
  65 2011-09-07 00:15:31 <genjix> because as the database expands you're doing this search to see what is the previous transaction
  66 2011-09-07 00:15:46 <genjix> and not all transactions are ours.
  67 2011-09-07 00:16:18 <gavinandresen> hmm?  it is a lookup by key into blkindex.dat, then a seek to the right place in blk0001.dat...
  68 2011-09-07 00:17:08 <gavinandresen> ... so assuming you're running on a system with a decent caching filesystem is aught to be pretty quick
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  71 2011-09-07 00:17:36 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, it's not because bdb is randomly calling fsync too
  72 2011-09-07 00:18:08 <phantomcircuit> constantly even when nothing is happening i might add
  73 2011-09-07 00:18:21 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: I was very tempted to experiment with DB_TXN_NOSYNC for the blkindex.dat and addr.dat....
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  75 2011-09-07 00:18:23 <xelister> I HAVE AN IDEA
  76 2011-09-07 00:18:29 <xelister> lets everyone create own -coin
  77 2011-09-07 00:18:32 bitcoinbulletin has joined
  78 2011-09-07 00:18:33 <xelister> based on our nick.
  79 2011-09-07 00:18:42 * xelister starts xelister-coins
  80 2011-09-07 00:18:52 <xelister> apparently everyone else is doing it.
  81 2011-09-07 00:18:57 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r311420db9dcd cgminer/adl.c: Flag adl as active if any card is successfully activated.
  82 2011-09-07 00:19:01 <genjix> gavinandresen: pm
  83 2011-09-07 00:19:08 <gavinandresen> ... but the right fix is headers-only-initial-download.  The don't-do-ECDSA was a one-line easy low-hanging-fruit safe fix, so I did it
  84 2011-09-07 00:21:27 <gavinandresen> I get g-coins
  85 2011-09-07 00:21:38 <gavinandresen> (logo would be g-string based of course)
  86 2011-09-07 00:21:40 zomtec has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  87 2011-09-07 00:21:55 <BlueMatt> hey, I had a thing which would allow for headers-only in like a day or two of work and you shot it down...
  88 2011-09-07 00:22:04 <xelister> ;;tickets
  89 2011-09-07 00:22:04 <gribble> Error: "tickets" is not a valid command.
  90 2011-09-07 00:22:05 <xelister> ;;ticket
  91 2011-09-07 00:22:05 <gribble> Error: "ticket" is not a valid command.
  92 2011-09-07 00:22:13 <imsaguy> ;;ticker ?
  93 2011-09-07 00:22:13 <gribble> (ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low]) -- Return pretty-printed mtgox ticker. If one of the options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations).
  94 2011-09-07 00:22:23 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: I shot it down?  That was mean of me....
  95 2011-09-07 00:22:39 Prattler has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  96 2011-09-07 00:22:59 <BlueMatt> s/shot down/thought there were better uses of time/
  97 2011-09-07 00:23:26 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt:  my latest thoughts on headers-only are here:   https://gist.github.com/1059233
  98 2011-09-07 00:24:05 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: yes, that was pretty much abstracted...
  99 2011-09-07 00:24:29 <BlueMatt> half-set of blocks fully there
 100 2011-09-07 00:24:49 <BlueMatt> fully easily done
 101 2011-09-07 00:25:43 <BlueMatt> damn gavin is getting busy...DoSprevention branch and everything
 102 2011-09-07 00:27:11 <matth1a3> that would be a really nice patch, I'm sure the mobile people would love it...
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 106 2011-09-07 00:31:00 <Blitzboom> will the QT GUI? be in the first version of 0.4?
 107 2011-09-07 00:31:50 genjix has left ()
 108 2011-09-07 00:32:04 <gavinandresen> QT GUI is planned for right after 0.4.
 109 2011-09-07 00:32:21 <gavinandresen> It is a big enough change it probably makes sense to name that release 0.5
 110 2011-09-07 00:32:35 <Blitzboom> ok, good
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 115 2011-09-07 00:38:35 <wardearia> Something that may be worthy of continuing is documenting/organizing all the latest developments related to bitcoin as I had established previously at http://bitcointalk.org/wiki/doku.php?id=repositories
 116 2011-09-07 00:39:13 <wardearia> That way as more decentralized choice exists for softwares to use for bitcoin p2p network, it will be easy to publicize or spread awareness of those developments
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 119 2011-09-07 00:49:45 <luke-jr> sweet, bitcoin 4.0 is out
 120 2011-09-07 00:51:40 c00w has joined
 121 2011-09-07 00:54:04 <wardearia> I'll just toss this out here: From http://www.ugtv.org/glenneichler.php "MTV's greatest weakness is also their greatest strength . The fact that nobody's paying very close attention, and the primary objective is to do things on the cheap, means that people are allowed to be creative, where at other networks, where there's more at stake, (i.e. money), people aren't allowed to be as creative..."
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 125 2011-09-07 00:59:08 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r3997f308a068 cgminer/ (adl.c adl.h main.c miner.h): Add a thermal cutoff option as well and set it to 95 degrees by default.
 126 2011-09-07 00:59:09 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r4628db5bfdf4 cgminer/adl.c: Change the fan speed by only 5% if it's over the target temperature but less than the hysteresis value to minimise overshoot down in temperature.
 127 2011-09-07 01:01:11 <wardearia> Reposted at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=41963
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 135 2011-09-07 01:09:17 <bx_> lookign for skilled web devs exp with js (ajax), php, mysql, etc PM me ... pay and equity in large bitcoin products along with Contract-by-contract for small biz clients.
 136 2011-09-07 01:11:00 nhodges has joined
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 138 2011-09-07 01:19:04 <CIA-92> bitcoin: aldiyen * rcfa5f830811e Phoenix-Miner-personal/ (ConsoleLogger.py minerutil/MMPProtocol.py): when redrawing status, only erase once rather than three times. maybe this'll break phoenix for someone, but it seems unlikely
 139 2011-09-07 01:20:06 shLONG has joined
 140 2011-09-07 01:20:08 <WakiMiko> luke-jr: is it?
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 142 2011-09-07 01:23:07 <luke-jr> WakiMiko: mocking the guy who just posted to the ML
 143 2011-09-07 01:23:34 <WakiMiko> oh, i see
 144 2011-09-07 01:25:36 soap is now known as soap_
 145 2011-09-07 01:28:27 <WakiMiko> the new bitcoin website looks nice
 146 2011-09-07 01:28:49 <WakiMiko> wouldnt have looked at it if it werent for you luke-jr
 147 2011-09-07 01:28:57 <CIA-92> bitcoin: aldiyen * r40fac365a24b Phoenix-Miner-personal/Miner.py: Increment version to 0.2.3
 148 2011-09-07 01:31:04 <luke-jr> "#bitcoin-market (Live quotes from markets)" should be replaced with #bitcoin-watch :P
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 150 2011-09-07 01:35:32 <imsaguy> luke-jr, the different views are nice.
 151 2011-09-07 01:35:49 <imsaguy> yours can almost be too much
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 172 2011-09-07 02:15:06 <cjdelisle> hrm
 173 2011-09-07 02:15:22 <cjdelisle> no nxstack and stack canaries flags
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 182 2011-09-07 02:32:47 <copumpkin> jgarzik, nameless|: you around?
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 196 2011-09-07 02:55:35 <diki> im around
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 198 2011-09-07 02:56:24 <copumpkin> gmaxwell would work too
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 200 2011-09-07 02:56:44 <gmaxwell> Wha?
 201 2011-09-07 02:56:49 * diki slaps gmaxwell around a bit with a large trout
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 203 2011-09-07 02:57:16 <copumpkin> gmaxwell: think you could kill the annoying spambot in #bitcoin? it PMs people for petty reasons :)
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 231 2011-09-07 04:08:52 <CIA-92> bitcoin: aldiyen * r7424dd005368 Phoenix-Miner-personal/WorkQueue.py: Log abandon work message as debug
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 244 2011-09-07 04:18:52 <CIA-92> bitcoin: aldiyen * r1a28a109c070 Phoenix-Miner-personal/WorkQueue.py: Forget that we abandoned work next time a range is fetched, even if there was already work to be had
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 251 2011-09-07 04:28:55 <CIA-92> bitcoin: aldiyen * rc9a9cd2e8068 Phoenix-Miner-personal/Miner.py: Set version to v0.2.4
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 267 2011-09-07 04:47:31 <bittwist> SolidCoin: fixing the 51% attack flaw in bitcoin
 268 2011-09-07 04:47:35 <bittwist> details at 11
 269 2011-09-07 04:49:37 <ymirhotfoot> Yes.  By a subtle cryptographic analogue of the New US Senate Rules, a 60% majority, beyond the old 50%+ majority is required for certification of SOLIDCOIN WARRANTS.
 270 2011-09-07 04:56:39 Stove has joined
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 272 2011-09-07 05:00:12 <ymirhotfoot> Perhaps of interest, a gathering 10-12 September 2011 in new York City:
 273 2011-09-07 05:00:15 <ymirhotfoot> http://openvideoconference.org/2011/08/building-a-new-payment-standard-on-the-web/
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 281 2011-09-07 05:26:03 <nameless> !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|copumpkin: what's up?
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 416 2011-09-07 10:29:00 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r26d1264c005a cgminer/README: FAQ updates.
 417 2011-09-07 10:39:01 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r01a0d0a7452b cgminer/main.c: Add a --no-adl option to disable ADL monitoring and GPU settings.
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 438 2011-09-07 11:38:56 <shadders> Question for the protocol experts:
 439 2011-09-07 11:39:49 <MrSam> ACK
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 441 2011-09-07 11:40:27 <D0han> timeout, RST
 442 2011-09-07 11:40:52 <shadders> If I send a tx to bitcoind because I've received it but can't verify it myself (because I'm a dumb node).  I don't want to wait for bitcoind until it feels like repropogating the tx.. If I calculate the hash myself then I can send a getdata requesting the specific tx...
 443 2011-09-07 11:41:16 <shadders> if the tx is valid presumably bitcoind will return it...
 444 2011-09-07 11:41:27 <shadders> if it's not then will it simply not respond?
 445 2011-09-07 11:42:03 <shadders> or can I rely on bitcoind to immediately rebroadcast the tx once it's verified?
 446 2011-09-07 11:42:37 <bespike> hello, could anyone tell me how to make my own coins, like bitcoins and soldcoins?
 447 2011-09-07 11:42:58 <shadders> you need a blacksmith
 448 2011-09-07 11:43:17 <tcatm> shadders: I don't think you should assume the bitcoind will respond to INV(TX) or broadcast it immediately.
 449 2011-09-07 11:43:17 <bespike> very funny
 450 2011-09-07 11:43:55 <shadders> are new tx's not considered high priority for relaying?
 451 2011-09-07 11:43:55 <tcatm> bespike: change all "magic values", change the port, genesis block and remove the checkpoints
 452 2011-09-07 11:44:26 <bespike> thank you tcatm :)
 453 2011-09-07 11:44:57 <tcatm> oh and change the address version, too
 454 2011-09-07 11:45:12 <bespike> ok :)
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 456 2011-09-07 11:47:18 <tcatm> shadders: not exactly. the code will do that but that might change. it would be better to ask it for everything you need to verfiy the transaction yourself
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 461 2011-09-07 11:50:59 <shadders> verifying tx is not an attractive option for the scenario... the 'dumb node' is a proxy in front of bitcoind taking network load off it.  But in some case like 'receive new tx' you want to repropogate as quick as possible.  But don't want propogate until the tx is validated... which is bitcoind's job..
 462 2011-09-07 11:51:09 <shadders> it's a bit of a square peg, round hole problem...
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 465 2011-09-07 11:54:18 <tcatm> shadders: is that the proxy mentioned on the mailing list?
 466 2011-09-07 11:54:53 <shadders> yep
 467 2011-09-07 11:56:35 <tcatm> in that case you should just send it to bitcoind and relay it once you get it back
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 469 2011-09-07 12:00:17 <shadders> I suppose the delay is no more than you'd have from a normal bitcoind node in that case...
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 471 2011-09-07 12:01:48 <shadders> I also suspect I'm going to have to maintain 2 connections to the bitcoind.  I'm guessing it won't bother to relay the tx back through the connection it came from... So the 2nd connection should fool it into thinking it's a different node and it should come back through that connection
 472 2011-09-07 12:02:19 <tcatm> the code in main.cpp does relay it just after verification within the same thread
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 474 2011-09-07 12:04:12 <shadders> ahh... does it exclude the incoming connection from the relay?
 475 2011-09-07 12:04:45 <shadders> sorry, handicapped.. no c++ here...
 476 2011-09-07 12:05:15 <tcatm> I'm not sure but I can't find any code that prevents it from sending it back.
 477 2011-09-07 12:06:04 <shadders> ok... will test it... but probably shouldn't assume it always will send back on originating conn...
 478 2011-09-07 12:06:53 <tcatm> I think it would be okay to tweak the protocol a little to make proxying easier if needed.
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 481 2011-09-07 12:14:17 <shadders> hmm... The trickiest bit is how to deal with request/response exchanges... For bitcoind the response route is obvious because it's the connection the request came from...
 482 2011-09-07 12:15:03 <shadders> introducing sequence id's would be a big pain the arse on the bitcoind side...
 483 2011-09-07 12:15:31 <tcatm> requests are stateless, aren't they?
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 488 2011-09-07 12:17:41 <shadders> the only way I can think to attack it is to generate a unique key from the request that can regenerated from the expected response... e.g. getdate: request_type + hashes... this won't necessarily be unique to clients but that's ok because if two identical requests come in the same response can be fed back to both...
 489 2011-09-07 12:17:53 <shadders> getdate=getdata
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 491 2011-09-07 12:18:29 <shadders> tcatm: stateless yes but a stateless request still implies you know who to send the response to...
 492 2011-09-07 12:18:48 <shadders> bitcoind won't because it see's all requests coming from one node
 493 2011-09-07 12:20:04 <tcatm> you could keep a small map in the proxy. i.e. "client 2 requested tx with hash XYZ". then you request that tx from bitcoind (or from your local cache) and forward it to client 2
 494 2011-09-07 12:21:30 <shadders> yeah that's what I was thinking with the unique key that can be generated off both the request and the response... butt ugly compared to a sequence id but it does allow for reuse of responses to identical requests from remote nodes
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 496 2011-09-07 12:23:19 <shadders> really depends how intelligent you want to get... and where I'm having trouble working out where to draw the line... e.g. with getdata you could even cache all the blocks individually.. if a new getdata comes in check if you've got all the requested blocks in cache if not send bitcoind a getdata for the missing ones otherwise just build the response and send it...
 497 2011-09-07 12:24:07 <shadders> but if you take it to the nth degree you'll just end up building a new bitcoind node ;0
 498 2011-09-07 12:24:14 <tcatm> a solid cache framework is the most important part of such a proxy
 499 2011-09-07 12:24:47 <tcatm> or maybe just use memcached
 500 2011-09-07 12:24:58 <shadders> tell me about it... poolserverj's got caches coming out it's arse...
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 502 2011-09-07 12:26:18 <TuxBlackEdo> i am selling dirt 3 keys for 1btc
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 505 2011-09-07 12:30:01 <Eliel> MagicalTux: I was looking at this graph http://pi.uk.com/bitcoin/charts/n-transactions and started wondering how big portion of those are transfer initiated or received by mtgox. Is there any chance you might be willing to publish that data?
 506 2011-09-07 12:31:25 <MagicalTux> hm
 507 2011-09-07 12:31:28 <MagicalTux> not that much
 508 2011-09-07 12:31:37 <MagicalTux> most of the traffic is coming from money laundering
 509 2011-09-07 12:32:30 * xelister convicts MagicalTux for crimes
 510 2011-09-07 12:32:50 <ThomasV> huh?
 511 2011-09-07 12:32:53 * xelister also arrests everyone with penis and DVD recorder for reapes and distribution of illegal porn
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 513 2011-09-07 12:33:09 <xelister> ThomasV: Im just wondering what if entire world would be more like usa
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 516 2011-09-07 12:33:37 <ThomasV> xelister: np, I was reacting to MagicalTux's statement
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 518 2011-09-07 12:36:01 <Eliel> MagicalTux: money laundering... as in, just moving bitcoins between different addresses a few times?
 519 2011-09-07 12:36:53 <ThomasV> moving coins is not sufficient to launder money
 520 2011-09-07 12:37:08 <ThomasV> you need to mix your coins with someone elses's coins
 521 2011-09-07 12:40:44 <MagicalTux> that's what's happening every day on the blockchain
 522 2011-09-07 12:45:07 <phantomcircuit> Eliel, people seem to think that obscures the origin
 523 2011-09-07 12:45:09 <phantomcircuit> but
 524 2011-09-07 12:45:11 <phantomcircuit> it really doesn't
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 539 2011-09-07 13:14:25 <WildSoil> ;;bc,stats
 540 2011-09-07 13:14:27 <gribble> Current Blocks: 144353 | Current Difficulty: 1777774.4820015 | Next Difficulty At Block: 145151 | Next Difficulty In: 798 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 13 hours, 26 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1807327.39582545
 541 2011-09-07 13:14:28 <xelister> Eliel: you can make money more private by moving
 542 2011-09-07 13:14:30 <xelister> in the chain
 543 2011-09-07 13:14:45 <xelister> but yea using exchange it could be another protection
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 583 2011-09-07 14:29:15 <ThomasV> gavinandresen: hi, did you find the deadlock ?
 584 2011-09-07 14:29:30 <gavinandresen> yup
 585 2011-09-07 14:29:40 <gavinandresen> wait, no, I lied-- sipa found the deadlock
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 587 2011-09-07 14:30:12 <gavinandresen> I'll pull the patch as soon as I finish writing an email in that other window.
 588 2011-09-07 14:30:28 <ThomasV> I just compiled from git. I noticed that when I do "getinfo", the response time is highly variable. could it be that it is waiting for an event on the network before it answers rpc ?
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 590 2011-09-07 14:32:01 <gavinandresen> if it is busy processing events from the network the getinfo will have to wait...
 591 2011-09-07 14:32:25 <ThomasV> it is downloading blocks
 592 2011-09-07 14:32:38 <gavinandresen> ... that'll do it
 593 2011-09-07 14:33:11 <gavinandresen> I kind of used a sledgehammer to fix a whole slew of deadlock issues with RPC calls--
 594 2011-09-07 14:33:40 <ThomasV> a sledgehammer ?
 595 2011-09-07 14:33:45 <gavinandresen> Each RPC call used to be responsible for obtaining the locks it needed to do its thing.  Now the RPC handler obtains the cs_main and cs_wallet locks before calling the RPC method
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 597 2011-09-07 14:34:23 <ThomasV> oh, is that the reason why I see this delay ?
 598 2011-09-07 14:34:25 <gavinandresen> That way the RPC code can't screw up and obtain them in the wrong order.  It does make RPC calls that don't really do much (like getinfo) slower.
 599 2011-09-07 14:34:40 <ThomasV> ok
 600 2011-09-07 14:37:35 <gavinandresen> There's more reworking of locks to be done, but that's a job for another release/refactoring.
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 602 2011-09-07 14:37:47 <UukGoblin> gavinandresen, ah, running a full day on -noirc now, it's still alive(tm)
 603 2011-09-07 14:38:03 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r9406696 / src/net.cpp : Fix AddAddress cs_mapaddresses/db transaction deadlock - http://git.io/2mGiHg
 604 2011-09-07 14:38:03 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * rf92f022 / src/net.cpp :
 605 2011-09-07 14:38:03 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Merge pull request #500 from gavinandresen/txndeadlock
 606 2011-09-07 14:38:03 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Fix AddAddress cs_mapaddresses/db transaction deadlock - http://git.io/yy1GxA
 607 2011-09-07 14:39:36 <gavinandresen> I've been running with the deadlock fix all night no problems (with irc)
 608 2011-09-07 14:40:26 <ThomasV> is this tx spam ? http://blockexplorer.com/tx/e9f5520572e4657417ae58abae736fb4d7b4dac23ed5d471c6ac2063551a9acd
 609 2011-09-07 14:40:51 <ThomasV> it is the end of a long series of tx sending 0.0000001 btc
 610 2011-09-07 14:41:05 <ThomasV> each hasa a 0.005 fee
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 613 2011-09-07 14:45:03 <gavinandresen> There have been a lot of tiny, spammy transactions added to the block-chain recently.  Somebody is being antisocial and trying to see if they can break bitcoin in a similar way to the way ArtForz (accidently) half-broke solidcoin
 614 2011-09-07 14:46:04 asher^ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 615 2011-09-07 14:46:05 <ThomasV> this is older though
 616 2011-09-07 14:48:26 <gavinandresen> ... huh, right you are.  Do the addresses decode into ASCII?  Could be somebody copying Dan Kaminsky's hack to get content into the block-chain.
 617 2011-09-07 14:49:19 <ThomasV> I did not check
 618 2011-09-07 14:49:27 ocharles has joined
 619 2011-09-07 14:50:13 <ThomasV> I have been running a script to see where allinvain's stolen bitcoins have been going, and I found this very long chain of transactions
 620 2011-09-07 14:50:55 nr9 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 621 2011-09-07 14:51:04 <martind> I hope people don't mind that I post this here, #bitcoin seems to be more focused on mining/trading-related activities: https://bitcoin.org.uk/forums/topic/210-call-for-contributions-bitcoin-weekend-at-the-london-hackspace-2425-sept-2011/ we're planning a Bitcoin event at the London Hackspace on 24/25 Sept and are looking for people interested in giving talks, holding workshops, or contributing in
 622 2011-09-07 14:51:04 <martind>  other ways.
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 625 2011-09-07 14:53:03 <ThomasV> martind: is that the same as what genjix organises ?
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 634 2011-09-07 15:04:07 <BurtyB> martind, you're having 2 days of talks?
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 638 2011-09-07 15:12:31 * cjdelisle hates threads
 639 2011-09-07 15:12:40 <phantomcircuit> cjdelisle, lol
 640 2011-09-07 15:12:53 <cjdelisle> really
 641 2011-09-07 15:13:34 <cjdelisle> if you don't have a lot of processor demand (generally bitcoin doesn't) just use event programming and one thread.
 642 2011-09-07 15:13:37 <cjdelisle> no more lockd
 643 2011-09-07 15:13:40 <cjdelisle> *locks
 644 2011-09-07 15:13:55 TD has joined
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 646 2011-09-07 15:14:26 <cjdelisle> if you have a ton of processor demand and you really need to exploit multicore, spawn another process to do a single job and pipe the data to it.
 647 2011-09-07 15:15:18 <cjdelisle> I can't see threads really exploiting the power of a multicore processor if they are constantly grabbing locks.
 648 2011-09-07 15:15:39 <cjdelisle> let alone a multi socket machine
 649 2011-09-07 15:15:55 <edcba> depends on how much time they hold the lock
 650 2011-09-07 15:16:52 <cjdelisle> Every time you grab a lock, you need to use the buss between the sockets to make sure nobody else is holding that lock
 651 2011-09-07 15:16:57 <cjdelisle> (that is the worst case)
 652 2011-09-07 15:17:58 <cjdelisle> if there are cores that don't have the lock in their cache then they can be skipped....
 653 2011-09-07 15:18:15 <cjdelisle> threads == endless PITA
 654 2011-09-07 15:18:50 <log0s> i think the bitcoin code really just needs a total rewrite...obviously the developers disagree, or they'd have done it already
 655 2011-09-07 15:18:59 <edcba> i agree
 656 2011-09-07 15:19:06 <edcba> but i'm too lazy to do it
 657 2011-09-07 15:19:43 <jgarzik> oh, obviously
 658 2011-09-07 15:19:47 <edcba> ;;bc,mtgox
 659 2011-09-07 15:19:47 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.59916,"low":6.402,"avg":6.837939745,"vwap":6.898355101,"vol":50716,"last":6.86103,"buy":6.86103,"sell":6.86282}}
 660 2011-09-07 15:19:52 <edcba> ouch
 661 2011-09-07 15:20:07 <jgarzik> the world needs a rewrite.  but obviously people don't care, or they would have done it already.
 662 2011-09-07 15:20:14 <cjdelisle> ^ :)
 663 2011-09-07 15:20:14 <BlueMatt> log0s: total rewrite is never the right solution, piece-by-piece rewrite is the way to go...
 664 2011-09-07 15:20:32 <cjdelisle> yup, modularize and swap
 665 2011-09-07 15:20:33 <BlueMatt> log0s: also, rewriting is a shitton of work and should always be a last resort
 666 2011-09-07 15:21:12 <helo> i feel like this is #python discussing threads :)
 667 2011-09-07 15:21:19 <cjdelisle> has anyone tried building with nxstack and stack canaries?
 668 2011-09-07 15:21:20 <edcba> log0s: you know there is bitcoinj ? :)
 669 2011-09-07 15:21:46 <jrmithdobbs> also libbitcoin
 670 2011-09-07 15:21:51 <log0s> BlueMatt: took me only a few weeks worth of work spread out over a month to write my own java bitcoin library (no json-rpc or gui)
 671 2011-09-07 15:21:54 * helo bets cjdelisle is a python user
 672 2011-09-07 15:21:55 <gavinandresen> cjdelisle: will nxstack catch something that valgrind won't?
 673 2011-09-07 15:22:16 <cjdelisle> nxstack is just important to preventing stack smashing attacks
 674 2011-09-07 15:22:40 <cjdelisle> If there's a buffer overflow, setting the nx bit on the stack pages will make some blackhat very sad
 675 2011-09-07 15:22:48 <edcba> or not
 676 2011-09-07 15:22:50 <log0s> i'll finally get around to testing my networking code one of these days soon, as that's the most recent part i've written
 677 2011-09-07 15:22:54 <BlueMatt> log0s: yes, and when your devs are all volunteers and have day-jobs that takes a long time and is a lot of work that could be put into doing something more useful...
 678 2011-09-07 15:23:22 <cjdelisle> but there is some annoying stuff that requires executable stack like some trickery used in mplayer so sometimes it just doesn't work.
 679 2011-09-07 15:23:51 <edcba> but bitcoin doesn't use trickeries like that
 680 2011-09-07 15:25:36 <log0s> edcba: yes, i know of bitcoinj. i looked at bitcoinj's and openssl's code to see how expanding and compacting the target worked when i was working on my library
 681 2011-09-07 15:26:25 <BlueMatt> log0s: also, why are you writing another java bitcoin library? bitcoinj is very well done and well commented and I know TD is always looking for more people to contribute
 682 2011-09-07 15:26:41 <gavinandresen> cjdelisle: setting the nx bit on machines that support it sounds like a very good idea. Don't know if anybody has tried it.
 683 2011-09-07 15:26:53 <cjdelisle> trying a build now
 684 2011-09-07 15:27:13 * BlueMatt was told gcc does that by default
 685 2011-09-07 15:27:22 <BlueMatt> (on ubuntu/debian aka bitcoin's releases)
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 687 2011-09-07 15:29:07 <cjdelisle> -pie -fPIE -fstack-protector-all -Wstack-protector -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 -Wa,--noexecstack -Wl,-z,relro -Wl,-z,now -Wl,-z,noexecstack
 688 2011-09-07 15:30:10 <cjdelisle> not likeing PIE, I think it's because I didn't build wx with fPIC
 689 2011-09-07 15:30:16 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: since you're around again i'd like to bring this one back up as well: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/202
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 691 2011-09-07 15:31:52 <jrmithdobbs> if nxstack is worth considering to protect against possible future issues, so is that ;p
 692 2011-09-07 15:32:17 <BlueMatt> nxstack doesnt require setting a suid bit on bitcoin
 693 2011-09-07 15:32:23 <gavinandresen> jrmithdobbs: i don't know nuthin about linux capabilities bounding set support. Doesn't seem to be a lot of enthusiasm
 694 2011-09-07 15:32:29 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: neither does that
 695 2011-09-07 15:32:41 <phantomcircuit> you dont need to suid bitcoin to use capabilities...
 696 2011-09-07 15:32:44 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: thats what you told me
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 700 2011-09-07 15:32:59 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: no that's what you selectively remembered of the 3 ways to make that work
 701 2011-09-07 15:33:00 <BlueMatt> or...sorry that you have to add other similar bits...
 702 2011-09-07 15:33:12 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: iirc the other ones werent much of an option?
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 704 2011-09-07 15:34:01 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: one is starting it as root, one is setuid root ... both of those are horrible ideas, the correct way to do it is to use filesystem capabilities to give it *one* capability that only allows it to set the processes capabilities which it uses to drop all capabilities first thing in main()
 705 2011-09-07 15:34:23 <jrmithdobbs> and set the bounding set so that they can't be renabled
 706 2011-09-07 15:34:32 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: problem is, you are setting odd bits on the bitcoin exe, which I see as a problem as we dont currently have an installer
 707 2011-09-07 15:34:35 <cjdelisle> +#ifdef __cplusplus
 708 2011-09-07 15:34:36 <cjdelisle> +extern "C" {
 709 2011-09-07 15:34:38 <cjdelisle> sold
 710 2011-09-07 15:35:10 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: doesn't matter, it's a build time option and the code does nothing at all if it doesn't have the perms to do it
 711 2011-09-07 15:36:18 <log0s> BlueMatt: bitcoinj, like bitcoind, does not provide the modularity and flexibility that i want...libbitcoin is much closer to what i want in those respects, but i have my reasons for not adopting that as well
 712 2011-09-07 15:36:29 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: meh, Im on the fence here, I dont honestly see it as adding much to bitcoin at all...it could protect the rest of the system from further exploitation, but thats not up to the program to do...I would prefer things like apparmour or selinux rules for bitcoin
 713 2011-09-07 15:36:37 <jrmithdobbs> log0s: i argued with him so hard not to make that gplv3 ;p
 714 2011-09-07 15:36:39 <phantomcircuit> log0s, be interesting to know what those are?
 715 2011-09-07 15:36:56 <jrmithdobbs> at least, i'm guessing it's the gplv3 thing
 716 2011-09-07 15:37:35 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: apparmor/selinux actually don't provide this same protection
 717 2011-09-07 15:37:39 <BlueMatt> log0s: how much modularity do you need
 718 2011-09-07 15:37:50 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: chroot jail then
 719 2011-09-07 15:37:56 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: that doesn't either
 720 2011-09-07 15:38:45 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: it's something different just like nxstack is
 721 2011-09-07 15:38:51 <BlueMatt> if you have no way of getting root it does
 722 2011-09-07 15:38:54 <jrmithdobbs> (though nx is at the hw level)
 723 2011-09-07 15:42:05 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: there are some obscure cases where that's not entirely true
 724 2011-09-07 15:42:17 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: but the same arguments you just made could be used against wallet crypto and you're fine with that. :)
 725 2011-09-07 15:42:38 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: sorry you can't read English
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 727 2011-09-07 15:42:55 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ?
 728 2011-09-07 15:43:03 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: I dont think wallet crypto is worth anything, the reason it gets merged (IMO) is that its good for pr
 729 2011-09-07 15:43:14 <BlueMatt> setting bounding capability set...not so much
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 731 2011-09-07 15:43:27 <d33tah> i heard bitcoin devs work on switching from wx to qt. is that true?
 732 2011-09-07 15:43:52 <BlueMatt> d33tah: someone wrote qt version, and it will probably be merged and transitioned to after 0.4, maybe as early as 0.4.1
 733 2011-09-07 15:43:53 <gavinandresen> wallet crypto is good to prevent casual my-little-brother-spent-my-coins-on-porn attacks. and to protect backups.
 734 2011-09-07 15:44:16 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: you get what i'm saying, though, i obviously understand the pr aspects ;p
 735 2011-09-07 15:44:24 <jrmithdobbs> it's just a precautionary measure
 736 2011-09-07 15:44:34 <wardearia> BlueMatt, I would imagine a lot of modulously modular modulism including extra modulistic modulosity
 737 2011-09-07 15:44:54 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: the difference is wallet crypto protects bitcoin, bounding set protects the rest of the system from bitcoin failing
 738 2011-09-07 15:44:54 kish has joined
 739 2011-09-07 15:44:55 <jrmithdobbs> i just thought I'd bring it up again because the reasons it was closed out were because the person who closed it out doesn't understand what the code does and didn't bother reading the documentation that was clearly referenced in the request
 740 2011-09-07 15:44:58 <d33tah> i had an idea recently
 741 2011-09-07 15:45:30 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: Im pretty sure jgarzk understands how linux works
 742 2011-09-07 15:45:38 <BlueMatt> pretty damn well Id say
 743 2011-09-07 15:45:41 <d33tah> do you think it would be possible to create an opensource 'paranoid bitcoin token' thingy, that would store the private keys of user's money and would never send them to computer?
 744 2011-09-07 15:45:51 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: his statements in that thread of that pull request demonstrates he does not know how that portion works
 745 2011-09-07 15:45:57 <d33tah> when a transaction is made, it would generate it itself and just pass the encrypted data
 746 2011-09-07 15:46:04 <MacRohard> d33tah, it's called a smart card
 747 2011-09-07 15:46:16 <d33tah> kind of, but open source
 748 2011-09-07 15:46:18 <BlueMatt> d33tah: its been brought up many times, yes its possible, there are several projects which have never gone anywhere, but a ecdsa smart card could do it
 749 2011-09-07 15:46:22 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: or that it's been part of the kernel for a decade (sans bounding set which is a trivial extension to it)
 750 2011-09-07 15:46:24 <manveru> d33tah: try yubikey
 751 2011-09-07 15:46:27 <d33tah> some atmega thingy
 752 2011-09-07 15:46:41 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: or that lots of very well established software does in fact use it
 753 2011-09-07 15:46:47 <d33tah> manveru: i'll have a look
 754 2011-09-07 15:46:59 <jrmithdobbs> but sure other than not understanding it at all i guess he seems to understand it perfectly?!
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 756 2011-09-07 15:47:08 * jrmithdobbs </facetious>
 757 2011-09-07 15:47:11 <wardearia> jrmithdobbs, of course!  don't you understand?
 758 2011-09-07 15:47:22 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: like?
 759 2011-09-07 15:47:26 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: bind
 760 2011-09-07 15:47:35 <d33tah> nah, i don't like the yubikey idea
 761 2011-09-07 15:47:36 <BlueMatt> mmm
 762 2011-09-07 15:47:38 <wardearia> Prepare for the mothingness
 763 2011-09-07 15:47:38 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: the kernel internals itself
 764 2011-09-07 15:47:52 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: go read the thread in that pull request i already answered these questions :(
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 766 2011-09-07 15:48:04 <jrmithdobbs> and clarified the misconceptions
 767 2011-09-07 15:48:24 <jrmithdobbs> and i have to clean my damned keyboard now because something is stuck under one of my shift keys
 768 2011-09-07 15:48:29 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: "this has nothing to do with guarding against running as root" oh really, what does it do then?
 769 2011-09-07 15:48:31 <d33tah> d33tah@deetah-laptop:~/bitcoin-qt/src$ LC_ALL=C make -f makefile.unix
 770 2011-09-07 15:48:31 <d33tah> make: *** No rule to make target `obj/crypter.o', needed by `bitcoin'.  Stop.
 771 2011-09-07 15:48:34 <d33tah> wtf?
 772 2011-09-07 15:48:36 <BlueMatt> prevents getting root access
 773 2011-09-07 15:48:54 <d33tah> ah, qmake
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 775 2011-09-07 15:49:41 <gavinandresen> jrmithdobbs: if jgarzik doesn't get it, then there is little hope that lots of other people will.  So there's likely to be a lot of "what the heck is THIS doing in bitcoin???" questions.  Which wastes everybody's time, all for a "shutting the barn door after the cows have come home" feature.   In my opinion.
 776 2011-09-07 15:50:11 <gavinandresen> (sorry for the mixed metaphor, I meant shutting the barn door after your chickens have come home to roost)
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 779 2011-09-07 15:52:38 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: which is why I contributed it as a build-time option turned off by default that's completely segregated code, people who do "get it" can turn it on and people who don't will never see it
 780 2011-09-07 15:53:07 <BlueMatt> then you get even more questions from people trying to build asking "should i turn this on or not and what does it do?"
 781 2011-09-07 15:53:20 <phantomcircuit> lol
 782 2011-09-07 15:53:30 <phantomcircuit> just turn it off by default
 783 2011-09-07 15:53:35 <phantomcircuit> 99% of people wont notice
 784 2011-09-07 15:53:40 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: jgarzik was saying the point was to prevent people from running bitcoind as root at all, that's a side effect but not the intent, the intent is to prevent other bad things happening if bitcoin is compromised in some way
 785 2011-09-07 15:54:02 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: you mean like how every single person who builds it doesn't understand the broke use of USE_UPNP?
 786 2011-09-07 15:54:13 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: yep, exactly
 787 2011-09-07 15:54:26 * BlueMatt still blames luke-jr for USE_UPNP, hes the one who came up with that idea
 788 2011-09-07 15:54:42 <luke-jr> s/blames/credits/
 789 2011-09-07 15:54:50 <BlueMatt> call it as you like
 790 2011-09-07 15:55:37 <luke-jr> the problem is the build system not being the standard ./configure etc people are used to
 791 2011-09-07 15:55:45 <BlueMatt> true
 792 2011-09-07 15:56:40 <gavinandresen> patches welcome
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 794 2011-09-07 15:56:53 <gavinandresen> (but I don't know nuthin about autotools)
 795 2011-09-07 15:57:35 * BlueMatt remembers jgarzik offering to write it a while back...
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 802 2011-09-07 16:10:50 <martind> ThomasV: yes, the same thing
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 804 2011-09-07 16:10:58 <martind> BurtyB: one day talks, one day workshops
 805 2011-09-07 16:11:11 <martind> (roughly)
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 819 2011-09-07 16:19:54 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: patches welcome? jaromil had a fully functional autotools that was tested and working 90%+ cases and it never got merged so fell behind to the point where it'd almost have to be redone?!
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 822 2011-09-07 16:21:05 <gavinandresen> jrmithdobbs: i didn't follow the debate around jaromil's patch.  Like I said, I don't know nuthin about autotools.
 823 2011-09-07 16:21:52 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: jaromil had a functional for ubuntu autotools that was tested and known to not work on many platforms and it never got merged so fell behind when jaromil failed to update with patches that were sent to him
 824 2011-09-07 16:22:18 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: and from what Ive been told (by people who know better than me) his autotools was kinda hacked together
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 827 2011-09-07 16:24:00 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: iirc they were patches to things he couldn't test, it should have been merged when it was working for most cases (which it was outside of win32) so that the issues could be sorted out by a wider audience
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 829 2011-09-07 16:25:08 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: also, how do I need to change that >2G log patch on 32bit linux to get it merged? That's a bugfix. Tell me how to get it merged. The current patch has less race conditions than the original code did. (which was jgarzik's objection)
 830 2011-09-07 16:25:57 <gavinandresen> jrmithdobbs: bottleneck is testing, but that should be getting better as alex gets up to speed
 831 2011-09-07 16:26:26 <gavinandresen> jrmithdobbs: recuit some people to help q/a and that'd be a big help in getting patches accepted or rejected quicker
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 833 2011-09-07 16:26:53 <gavinandresen> (writing a test-plan for the >2G log would be good, too)
 834 2011-09-07 16:27:02 <gavinandresen> (how WILL that get tested???)
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 837 2011-09-07 16:27:31 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: what needs to be tested specifically on that >2GB log patch? I tested that it would continue appending to the log beyond 2GB and removed the auto-trucating behaviour completely so I'm not sure what else needs testing
 838 2011-09-07 16:27:57 <gavinandresen> developers should never test their own code.  Me included.
 839 2011-09-07 16:28:02 <jrmithdobbs> I think the build options might need to be slightly different on *bsd/solaris/etc vs linux
 840 2011-09-07 16:28:11 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: I agree, I'm just saying what needs to be tested?
 841 2011-09-07 16:28:57 <gavinandresen> I dunno, haven't looked at that pull request in a while, there are much higher priorities
 842 2011-09-07 16:29:00 <jrmithdobbs> I mean, the test plan for that is pretty straight forward: dd if=/dev/zero of=debug.log; tail -f debug.log & bitcoind -daemon; and make sure there's logs getting appended
 843 2011-09-07 16:29:25 <gavinandresen> jrmithdobbs: cool, so put that in the pull request and add it to alex's queue.
 844 2011-09-07 16:29:34 <jrmithdobbs> how do I do the latter?
 845 2011-09-07 16:29:43 <gavinandresen> alex posted to the bitcoin-dev mailing list
 846 2011-09-07 16:29:53 <alexwaters> :)
 847 2011-09-07 16:30:00 <jrmithdobbs> oh, and it has to be done on a 32bit machine/build, of course
 848 2011-09-07 16:30:27 erus` has joined
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 850 2011-09-07 16:32:27 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: what was the subject? I don't recall that message
 851 2011-09-07 16:32:51 <Matth1a3> http://bit.ly/qWosyB
 852 2011-09-07 16:33:12 <Matth1a3> jrmithdobbs: that link
 853 2011-09-07 16:34:41 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
 854 2011-09-07 16:35:19 BTC_away is now known as BTCTrader
 855 2011-09-07 16:35:30 forloop has joined
 856 2011-09-07 16:36:02 <tcatm> http://eu1.bitcoincharts.com/blockchain/ daily signed blockchain snapshots
 857 2011-09-07 16:36:09 <jrmithdobbs> alexwaters: there you go.
 858 2011-09-07 16:36:32 <alexwaters> thank you, awesome
 859 2011-09-07 16:37:31 minimoose has joined
 860 2011-09-07 16:38:28 <jrmithdobbs> alexwaters: it probably needs to be tested on *bsd/solaris/etc like i said, because the defines might be a bit different for different libcs
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 863 2011-09-07 16:39:56 <alexwaters> ok
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 873 2011-09-07 16:48:14 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, are you aware that bcc was down sporadically today?
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 881 2011-09-07 16:53:45 <tcatm> phantomcircuit: yes. the server is a little busy with all those new markets (15 mtgox currencies and 16 from ruxum)
 882 2011-09-07 16:54:47 <phantomcircuit> they have almost no activity though
 883 2011-09-07 16:55:59 <tcatm> The way I store the market depth is a little inefficient. I'm working on that
 884 2011-09-07 17:00:00 BlueMatt has joined
 885 2011-09-07 17:00:13 <ymirhotfoot> Bloom filters
 886 2011-09-07 17:00:29 <ymirhotfoot> More Bloom filters and more Merkle trees
 887 2011-09-07 17:00:42 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, i can help you with that for a fee
 888 2011-09-07 17:01:41 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 889 2011-09-07 17:01:55 <tcatm> phantomcircuit: how much?
 890 2011-09-07 17:02:15 <phantomcircuit> depends on how screwy your current setup is
 891 2011-09-07 17:02:23 <tcatm> very screwy ;)
 892 2011-09-07 17:02:33 <phantomcircuit> lol
 893 2011-09-07 17:03:18 <phantomcircuit> well im going to add PLN to intersango.com tonight but after that my schedule is only completely filled
 894 2011-09-07 17:03:21 <phantomcircuit> so
 895 2011-09-07 17:03:26 <phantomcircuit> name a price
 896 2011-09-07 17:04:40 <phantomcircuit> using mysql?
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 901 2011-09-07 17:06:26 <tcatm> yes, but I've changed the database layout already and wrote wrappers. Only migrating the old code to use the new data format is not done yet. I think I'm going to write that tomorrow.
 902 2011-09-07 17:06:44 <phantomcircuit> ah
 903 2011-09-07 17:06:47 <phantomcircuit> new database fast enough?
 904 2011-09-07 17:07:07 <tcatm> yes
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 906 2011-09-07 17:09:14 <phantomcircuit> you'll probably be fine them
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 927 2011-09-07 17:40:40 <unclemanti> i have bitcoind running as daemon'
 928 2011-09-07 17:40:51 <unclemanti> i am trying to get the current block and i am getting this error
 929 2011-09-07 17:40:54 zamgo has left ()
 930 2011-09-07 17:41:11 <unclemanti> unclemantis@li291-14:~/bitcoin/src$ ./bitcoind -dns
 931 2011-09-07 17:41:12 <unclemanti> Bitcoin: Cannot obtain a lock on data directory /home/msheldon/.bitcoin.  Bitcoin is probably already running.
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 934 2011-09-07 17:45:07 <ymirhotfoot> ps aux | grep itco
 935 2011-09-07 17:45:16 <ymirhotfoot> I think that will work.
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 938 2011-09-07 17:50:53 <unclemanti> do what?
 939 2011-09-07 17:50:55 JRWR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 940 2011-09-07 17:51:46 <ymirhotfoot> type command at shell prompt; look for line with name of program in it
 941 2011-09-07 17:52:07 <ymirhotfoot> if there is such a line the thing is running; might not be running right though
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 946 2011-09-07 18:00:44 <unclemanti> all i want to do is to ask the deamon waht the current block i
 947 2011-09-07 18:00:45 <unclemanti> is
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 962 2011-09-07 18:26:34 <bx_> lookign for skilled web devs exp with js (ajax), php, mysql, etc PM me ... pay and equity in large bitcoin products along with Contract-by-contract for small biz clients. PM me ! :)
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 968 2011-09-07 18:37:23 <Joric> i made this using ajax! http://ragecoins.appspot.com
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 973 2011-09-07 18:45:00 <BlueMatt> ;;seen gavinandresen
 974 2011-09-07 18:45:00 <gribble> gavinandresen was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 2 hours, 15 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <gavinandresen> alex posted to the bitcoin-dev mailing list
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 978 2011-09-07 18:48:46 <tcatm> BlueMatt: http://eu1.bitcoincharts.com/blockchain/ is now signed with http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0x0120DFFD0E10F0EE
 979 2011-09-07 18:48:51 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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 981 2011-09-07 18:49:27 <BlueMatt> tcatm: just saw that, Ill deal with links in a couple minutes...
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 984 2011-09-07 18:53:08 <cjdelisle> there's a lotta [connection reset by peer] in the #bitcoin* channels on lfnet
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 988 2011-09-07 18:59:32 <Eliel> Joric: an idea, you could let people play it for free too.
 989 2011-09-07 19:01:05 BurtyB has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 990 2011-09-07 19:01:20 <Matth1a3> anyone able to answer some of my questions about how to test https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/505 ?
 991 2011-09-07 19:02:01 <Matth1a3> like, how many blocks should I generate (currently have about 20), and is there an easy way to check them against eachother in order to verify that the txids are unique?
 992 2011-09-07 19:04:07 <Joric> how would you rate the damage caused by that mybitcoin affair
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 996 2011-09-07 19:06:33 SexChange is now known as Slighty_Less_Tha
 997 2011-09-07 19:06:37 <Eliel> Joric: well, the exchange rate plunged quite a bit so... severe?
 998 2011-09-07 19:06:39 Slighty_Less_Tha is now known as SoftCoin
 999 2011-09-07 19:07:21 BurtyB has joined
1000 2011-09-07 19:08:04 <SoftCoin> Mmmm, no new version of Bitcoin for over 2 months
1001 2011-09-07 19:08:08 <SoftCoin> stagnant.
1002 2011-09-07 19:08:28 <BlueMatt> clogged pipe with so many new features more like
1003 2011-09-07 19:08:32 <BlueMatt> plus 0.4 is in rc now
1004 2011-09-07 19:10:14 <SoftCoin> lol
1005 2011-09-07 19:10:20 <SoftCoin> so many new features?
1006 2011-09-07 19:11:23 <diki> you know
1007 2011-09-07 19:11:32 <diki> i hope these features are not just under the hood
1008 2011-09-07 19:11:41 <diki> i want to feel them
1009 2011-09-07 19:13:11 <SoftCoin> hehe
1010 2011-09-07 19:13:19 <SoftCoin> wallet stealer trojan released
1011 2011-09-07 19:13:28 <SoftCoin> 6 months later, wallet encryption!
1012 2011-09-07 19:13:40 <BlueMatt> diki: sadly...not really
1013 2011-09-07 19:13:50 Firefly007 has joined
1014 2011-09-07 19:13:57 <SoftCoin> ___b___i__t____c____o____i_____n___@"
1015 2011-09-07 19:14:11 <BlueMatt> SoftCoin: you want buggy releases of financial software?
1016 2011-09-07 19:14:24 <SoftCoin> no
1017 2011-09-07 19:14:42 <SoftCoin> just any realeases
1018 2011-09-07 19:14:42 <BlueMatt> also, gavin was gone for a while and stuff moved even slower, but now hes paid (as of like two weeks ago) and stuff is moving quick
1019 2011-09-07 19:15:06 <ThomasV_> BlueMatt: paid by whom ?
1020 2011-09-07 19:15:10 <noagendamarket> wart
1021 2011-09-07 19:15:12 <BlueMatt> trucoin
1022 2011-09-07 19:15:14 <b4epoche> the man
1023 2011-09-07 19:15:18 <BlueMatt> the cia
1024 2011-09-07 19:15:25 <BlueMatt> oh wait, I already answered...damn
1025 2011-09-07 19:15:28 <ThomasV_> huh?
1026 2011-09-07 19:15:30 <noagendamarket> lol
1027 2011-09-07 19:15:33 <b4epoche> the clan?
1028 2011-09-07 19:15:43 <BlueMatt> http://www.trucoin.com/
1029 2011-09-07 19:15:44 <b4epoche> oh, that's an 'i'
1030 2011-09-07 19:15:52 <noagendamarket> he hets [paid cheese pizza ?
1031 2011-09-07 19:16:31 <alexwaters> bluematt, any chance you have 2 minutes to help me with something?
1032 2011-09-07 19:16:36 <BlueMatt> not sure how to interpret that, but Im assuming hes probably paid for his lunch breaks and thats about it...
1033 2011-09-07 19:16:37 <b4epoche> does he have 'another' job?
1034 2011-09-07 19:16:42 <BlueMatt> b4epoche: no
1035 2011-09-07 19:16:53 <BlueMatt> never did afaik, though his wife works
1036 2011-09-07 19:16:58 <BlueMatt> some uni something or other iirc
1037 2011-09-07 19:17:06 <BlueMatt> alexwaters: uhh...sure
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1039 2011-09-07 19:17:31 <BlueMatt> trucoin also pays (paid?) stefan to work on bitcoinjs
1040 2011-09-07 19:17:49 <ThomasV_> who owns trucoin?
1041 2011-09-07 19:17:59 <BlueMatt> http://www.trucoin.com/?page_id=6
1042 2011-09-07 19:18:17 <imsaguy2> I find it interesting the marketing guy doesnt have an email address.
1043 2011-09-07 19:18:24 <BlueMatt> heh, funny
1044 2011-09-07 19:18:35 <b4epoche> imsaguy:  and a PhD
1045 2011-09-07 19:18:58 <imsaguy2> that just means he spent more money on school than some.
1046 2011-09-07 19:19:23 <ThomasV_> hmm, how old is gavin?
1047 2011-09-07 19:19:49 erle- has joined
1048 2011-09-07 19:20:15 <BlueMatt> now this is getting creepy...
1049 2011-09-07 19:20:25 <b4epoche> not sure what gets you a PhD in marketing…  mastering BS?
1050 2011-09-07 19:20:57 <imsaguy2> who said the phd was in marketing?
1051 2011-09-07 19:21:02 <BlueMatt> hehe, probably phyc major or something
1052 2011-09-07 19:21:11 <BlueMatt> psyc*
1053 2011-09-07 19:21:21 <imsaguy2> PSYCH!!!!!
1054 2011-09-07 19:21:26 <BlueMatt> fu
1055 2011-09-07 19:21:29 <imsaguy2> ah, the flashbacks
1056 2011-09-07 19:21:32 <b4epoche> I never did…  just wondering
1057 2011-09-07 19:21:54 <imsaguy2> BlueMatt, that wasn't a dig at you, just an old school reference
1058 2011-09-07 19:21:59 <BlueMatt> oh, ok
1059 2011-09-07 19:22:06 <imsaguy2> derp
1060 2011-09-07 19:22:10 <BlueMatt> my uni uses psyc, not psych
1061 2011-09-07 19:22:31 <b4epoche> why do you even know that?
1062 2011-09-07 19:22:46 <imsaguy2> back in the day, they used to say it, but I have no clue as to the 'proper' spelling of it
1063 2011-09-07 19:22:55 <BlueMatt> b4epoche: too much time looking at class lists
1064 2011-09-07 19:23:14 <imsaguy2> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=psych
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1066 2011-09-07 19:23:37 <b4epoche> imsaguy2:  you must be my age
1067 2011-09-07 19:23:42 <imsaguy2> or not.
1068 2011-09-07 19:24:30 <imsaguy2> historical knowledge doesn't necessarily prove age
1069 2011-09-07 19:24:42 <mabus> sike!
1070 2011-09-07 19:24:55 <mabus> [sic]
1071 2011-09-07 19:25:18 <b4epoche> imsaguy2:  you used to say it, I can tell
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1086 2011-09-07 19:38:37 <Matth1a3> http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/ is now public, FYI
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1112 2011-09-07 20:16:02 <DiabolicalGamer> Good Afternoon friends
1113 2011-09-07 20:16:47 <DiabolicalGamer> Quick question... Working on using ExchB's trade API and am having issues posting my username and password to 'getFunds'.
1114 2011-09-07 20:16:56 <DiabolicalGamer> Any tips on how to do this correctly in PHP?
1115 2011-09-07 20:16:58 rafsoaken1 has joined
1116 2011-09-07 20:19:22 DiabolicalGamer_ has joined
1117 2011-09-07 20:19:51 <DiabolicalGamer_> Sorry, got disconnected. Anyone out there?
1118 2011-09-07 20:20:39 cosurgi has joined
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1120 2011-09-07 20:23:38 <neofutur> DiabolicalGamer_:
1121 2011-09-07 20:23:45 <neofutur> try #exchb
1122 2011-09-07 20:24:02 <DiabolicalGamer_> ah didn't realize they had their own channel. Thanks
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1126 2011-09-07 20:37:48 <cjdelisle> found an awesome way to get connection #s up :D
1127 2011-09-07 20:38:12 <cjdelisle> when I started bitcoind I spotted my node getting online and copied it's nick
1128 2011-09-07 20:38:33 <cjdelisle> when I want more connections, /nick <my node's nick>  /join #bitcoin
1129 2011-09-07 20:38:41 b4epoche_ has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
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1131 2011-09-07 20:39:41 <twobits> how would that work?   the clients dont use freenode, and they don't use the #bitcoin channel
1132 2011-09-07 20:39:56 <cjdelisle> it works because I connected to lfnet
1133 2011-09-07 20:40:10 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1134 2011-09-07 20:40:27 <twobits> ok,  what about the latter?
1135 2011-09-07 20:40:45 <cjdelisle> and apparently they do use the #bitcoin channel, I was a bit confused but it looks like the joining of "bitcoin" . rand() idea was scrapped
1136 2011-09-07 20:41:06 <twobits> hmmm....  not in the source code I saw....
1137 2011-09-07 20:41:13 <cjdelisle> I'm running the git checkout from yesterday and although there are still numbered channels, #bitcoin has like 4000 members
1138 2011-09-07 20:41:25 <twobits> maybe it is some clones that don't
1139 2011-09-07 20:41:39 <twobits> I know some config files I saw for multicoin dont use the channel # idea
1140 2011-09-07 20:41:53 <cjdelisle> *shrug*
1141 2011-09-07 20:41:58 clr_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1142 2011-09-07 20:42:02 <twobits> oh, didn't that get added semi recently
1143 2011-09-07 20:42:11 <twobits> I net it is the older clients, they suggest you don't connect with!
1144 2011-09-07 20:42:17 <cjdelisle> I immedietly hit my connection limit when I did that trick so I'm pretty sure it works
1145 2011-09-07 20:43:21 <cjdelisle> nah because I was watching in #bitcoin and "my node" joined it. Also the source is pretty clear that it's not doing that (anymore?)
1146 2011-09-07 20:43:55 <twobits> what  version of the client are you running?
1147 2011-09-07 20:44:20 <cjdelisle> I pulled from git yesterday
1148 2011-09-07 20:45:21 <cjdelisle> need bigger toobs
1149 2011-09-07 20:45:29 <cjdelisle> to 1024 and beyond!
1150 2011-09-07 20:46:10 <twobits> http://pastebin.com/0SMw1yiP
1151 2011-09-07 20:46:16 <twobits> is what I am seeing from git, so odd.
1152 2011-09-07 20:46:26 <cjdelisle> there's only like 4000 people in the swarm total IIRC, I could get all of them to connect to me :D
1153 2011-09-07 20:47:34 <imsaguy> nah
1154 2011-09-07 20:47:39 <twobits> I would have thought with an open incoming port you would get plenty of connections.   I am always stuck at eight ,  I should get around to opening the port up
1155 2011-09-07 20:47:43 <imsaguy> it takes 10mb of ram per connection (or so I'm told)
1156 2011-09-07 20:48:16 <cjdelisle> hrm you're right
1157 2011-09-07 20:48:24 <cjdelisle> what the hell did I check out?!
1158 2011-09-07 20:48:24 <bx_> lookign for skilled web devs exp with js (ajax), php, mysql, etc PM me ...  Also looking for Mobile devs (android/iphone) pay and equity in large bitcoin products & games, along with Contract-by-contract for small biz clients. PM me, Thanks ! :)
1159 2011-09-07 20:48:30 <gmaxwell> cjdelisle: there are more like 40k nodes in total.
1160 2011-09-07 20:48:40 <cjdelisle> ahh ok
1161 2011-09-07 20:48:42 <gmaxwell> There are only about 4k nodes that listen.
1162 2011-09-07 20:48:53 <cjdelisle> wow that's sad
1163 2011-09-07 20:48:58 <jrmithdobbs> very
1164 2011-09-07 20:48:59 <gmaxwell> (very roughly, it's hard to tell because a lot of listening nodes are full)
1165 2011-09-07 20:49:07 <twobits> maybe a version that uses udp could be used so more nodes could be supported connectionless.
1166 2011-09-07 20:49:16 <cjdelisle> we need the little red light like bittorrent that says "FIX YUR FIREWALL"
1167 2011-09-07 20:49:20 <gmaxwell> it could support more with tcp too....
1168 2011-09-07 20:49:26 <gmaxwell> but thats not good for the topology.
1169 2011-09-07 20:49:46 <gmaxwell> For filtered flooding to be efficient we should be as close to randomly wired as possible.
1170 2011-09-07 20:49:53 <jrmithdobbs> cjdelisle: can't though because the code doesn't know it's not reachable except that there are no active inbound connections ;p
1171 2011-09-07 20:50:27 <cjdelisle> jrmithdobbs: yes you can, you just have to call a node and ask them to have another node call you
1172 2011-09-07 20:50:37 <twobits> maybe  a multicast version would be interesting
1173 2011-09-07 20:50:40 <cjdelisle> or you use a central service
1174 2011-09-07 20:50:50 <jrmithdobbs> cjdelisle: can't with current protocol
1175 2011-09-07 20:50:52 <jrmithdobbs> is what I meant
1176 2011-09-07 20:51:00 <jrmithdobbs> several solutions have been proposed :)
1177 2011-09-07 20:51:04 <cjdelisle> actually you don't need 2 of them
1178 2011-09-07 20:51:38 <cjdelisle> just call a node and that node calls you back when you give it a ver message and if you are not listening then it gives you a clue message
1179 2011-09-07 20:51:54 <twobits> thing is calling the node can open up the connection
1180 2011-09-07 20:52:05 <cjdelisle> or just send an http request to a portscanme server...
1181 2011-09-07 20:52:20 <cjdelisle> twobits: different source port
1182 2011-09-07 20:52:20 <jrmithdobbs> that's not very decentralized
1183 2011-09-07 20:52:27 <cjdelisle> but it's a start
1184 2011-09-07 20:52:40 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
1185 2011-09-07 20:52:54 <gmaxwell> well, forget that. You add a protocol message "try connecting to me"
1186 2011-09-07 20:52:57 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1187 2011-09-07 20:53:14 <jrmithdobbs> ya that's been proposed a few times
1188 2011-09-07 20:53:19 <gmaxwell> and nodes which have been up for 24 hours and haven't had an inbound use it. against a few peers.
1189 2011-09-07 20:53:33 <jrmithdobbs> aoeuaoeu
1190 2011-09-07 20:53:37 <cjdelisle> How do nodes flood out messages without the same nodes getting the same messages over and over again?
1191 2011-09-07 20:53:38 <gmaxwell> If they get a bunch of "nopes" they give up.
1192 2011-09-07 20:54:29 b4epoche_ has joined
1193 2011-09-07 20:54:30 <twobits> I am guessing a lot of the nodes in the irc channel are not connectably to?
1194 2011-09-07 20:55:14 clr_ has joined
1195 2011-09-07 20:55:55 <cjdelisle> oh haha I accidently pulled gaven's fork instead of the mainline
1196 2011-09-07 20:56:06 <cjdelisle> that's why the weird behavior with irc
1197 2011-09-07 20:56:48 <cjdelisle> apparently the "#bitcoin0-99" patch never made it in to his fork
1198 2011-09-07 20:57:24 <gmaxwell> twobits: very very few.
1199 2011-09-07 20:58:24 <b4epoche_> okay, the wxclient is now hogging all cpu power…  i.e. the bug I've seen before
1200 2011-09-07 20:59:16 <gmaxwell> twobits: worse, stable listening nodes tend to stay connected... but what you're connected you only learn about nodes when they join.
1201 2011-09-07 20:59:25 <gmaxwell> so mostly you learn about the not listening nodes.
1202 2011-09-07 20:59:49 <gmaxwell> s/what/when/
1203 2011-09-07 21:00:03 <cjdelisle> In a randomly organized group where messages are broadcast to every node, don't nodes get a ton of repeats of the same message?
1204 2011-09-07 21:00:10 <twobits> hmm... yeah,   what are the ideas for other ways of client discovery?  I guess the dnsseeds is the current other best one?
1205 2011-09-07 21:00:31 <b4epoche_> I'm tracing the function calls and it looks like         CRITICAL_BLOCK(cs_mapAddresses) in void ThreadOpenConnections2(void* parg) is one of the culprits
1206 2011-09-07 21:00:43 <gmaxwell> cjdelisle: no, because it's filtered broadcast. The only repeats are of the fairly short INV messages. And if the average order (number of connections) is low then there won't be that many repeats of those.
1207 2011-09-07 21:01:09 <gmaxwell> twobits: Well, seperate initial discovery from discovery.
1208 2011-09-07 21:01:23 <cjdelisle> hmm I guess I will have to read that too..
1209 2011-09-07 21:01:36 <twobits> ok,  I would have thought discovery would be able to be done p2p after the initial discovery?
1210 2011-09-07 21:01:39 <gmaxwell> dnsseed is good for initial discovery (bootstrapping), but once you're up you might as well learn nodes from your peers.
1211 2011-09-07 21:01:45 <gmaxwell> Right.
1212 2011-09-07 21:01:47 <gmaxwell> And it does that.
1213 2011-09-07 21:01:59 <cjdelisle> not well
1214 2011-09-07 21:02:00 <twobits> so irc should not be needed after initial discovery either?
1215 2011-09-07 21:02:02 <gmaxwell> though addr.dat is completely pooluted with garbage.
1216 2011-09-07 21:02:18 <cjdelisle> because my connection count drops slowly after the innitial connection
1217 2011-09-07 21:02:19 <gmaxwell> Because nodes keep repeating non-listening nodes they hear about from IRC.
1218 2011-09-07 21:02:29 Daniel0108 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1219 2011-09-07 21:02:34 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: well, so long as all nodes behave nicely, anyways
1220 2011-09-07 21:02:35 <twobits> Ah....
1221 2011-09-07 21:02:42 <b4epoche_> the other bad boy seems to be CRITICAL_BLOCK(cs_mapAddresses) in AddAddress
1222 2011-09-07 21:02:50 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: a malicious node could start actually broadcasting txns and they get re-processed over and over again
1223 2011-09-07 21:02:58 <twobits> yeah, nodes need to flag nodes they connect to and only progate those
1224 2011-09-07 21:03:00 <jrmithdobbs> but it'd only affect people they're directly connected to
1225 2011-09-07 21:03:13 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: easy enough to defend against.
1226 2011-09-07 21:03:38 <jrmithdobbs> ya just saying with the current code that's how it operates
1227 2011-09-07 21:03:39 <gmaxwell> (just per peer ratelimiting plus rejecting txn you didn't get is probably enough)
1228 2011-09-07 21:03:55 <cjdelisle> I hear about broadcasting and I immedietly think DHT since then nodes are ordered and you can, with reasonable certanty, know who has already gotten a given message.
1229 2011-09-07 21:04:10 <jrmithdobbs> dht isn't a fit for this
1230 2011-09-07 21:04:22 <gmaxwell> cjdelisle: it's not, we need _everyone_ to get the messages.
1231 2011-09-07 21:04:41 <twobits> I think I am going to change to noirc , seems it causes more issues then it solves....  anyone know off hand the config file option for that?
1232 2011-09-07 21:04:50 <gmaxwell> DHT doesn't do anything helpful there, and in fact creates huge vulnerabilities because it makes particular nodes have targetable subsets.
1233 2011-09-07 21:04:59 <gmaxwell> twobits: noirc=1
1234 2011-09-07 21:05:09 <twobits> gmaxwell: thx
1235 2011-09-07 21:05:29 <cjdelisle> I'm not talking about using the storage properties of the DHT, I'm more interested in the fact that you know, from where a message came, who you don't need to bother forwarding it to.
1236 2011-09-07 21:05:48 <gmaxwell> cjdelisle: the bandwidth usage of a full node with max connections is only about 10kbit/sec on a 24 hour average or something small like that.
1237 2011-09-07 21:06:08 <jrmithdobbs> even with 512 connections it's negligible
1238 2011-09-07 21:06:21 <cjdelisle> hehe I had to add rate limit rules to iptables to keep my node from flattening my line
1239 2011-09-07 21:06:23 <b4epoche_> this (http://snapplr.com/h9tk) mean anything to anyone?
1240 2011-09-07 21:06:28 <gmaxwell> cjdelisle: what happens when someone claims varrious DHT identities and forwards messages in order to blind chosen subnodes?
1241 2011-09-07 21:06:45 iocor has joined
1242 2011-09-07 21:06:58 <cjdelisle> Yes, people using chosen identites breaks every guarantee a dht has to offer.
1243 2011-09-07 21:07:01 <gmaxwell> cjdelisle: it shoudl only use a lot during blockchain syncup. (where it downloads 500mb of data as fast as it can)
1244 2011-09-07 21:07:04 <b4epoche_> I'll save the trace but I gotta kill this wxbitcoin process, the laptops getting pretty damn hot
1245 2011-09-07 21:07:10 <jrmithdobbs> cjdelisle: which will happen
1246 2011-09-07 21:07:18 <gmaxwell> cjdelisle: they break nothing in a randomly wired flooding network.
1247 2011-09-07 21:07:55 <cjdelisle> down to 485 connections
1248 2011-09-07 21:08:08 <cjdelisle> the p2p discovery thing doesn't seem to work
1249 2011-09-07 21:08:32 <gmaxwell> cjdelisle: part of the reason it goes down is old nodes (esp .21) tend to hang up due to broken anti-flooding logic.
1250 2011-09-07 21:08:50 <cjdelisle> I see
1251 2011-09-07 21:09:00 <gmaxwell> Plus if you don't frequently rejoin IRC nodes don't have you at the top of their connect list.
1252 2011-09-07 21:09:23 <cjdelisle> unfortunately with a number like that to bootstrap, it should be always increasing until it hits it's limit
1253 2011-09-07 21:09:40 <gmaxwell> (because every time a node joins it gets its last seen bumped to 2 hours in the past, so they end up with a higher attempt priority than you)
1254 2011-09-07 21:10:11 <b4epoche_> no ideas on this runaway client issue?
1255 2011-09-07 21:10:17 <gmaxwell> nodes with noirc don't have that stupid behavior.
1256 2011-09-07 21:10:31 <cjdelisle> I only have 500 connections because I am fooling around with irssi on lfnet
1257 2011-09-07 21:10:50 <gmaxwell> cjdelisle: careful you don't run out of FDs.
1258 2011-09-07 21:11:00 <cjdelisle> good thinking
1259 2011-09-07 21:11:07 <cjdelisle> I'm limited to 512 connections
1260 2011-09-07 21:11:26 <gmaxwell> it reacts very poorly to that.. BDB blows up
1261 2011-09-07 21:11:33 <gmaxwell> b4epoche_: whats your issue?
1262 2011-09-07 21:11:51 <b4epoche_> client using 200% CPU
1263 2011-09-07 21:12:16 <b4epoche_> it's happened to me before but I was able to trace it this time
1264 2011-09-07 21:12:30 <cjdelisle> livelock
1265 2011-09-07 21:12:51 huk has quit ()
1266 2011-09-07 21:12:56 * cjdelisle hates threads
1267 2011-09-07 21:13:04 <gmaxwell> yea, sounds like a livelock. I'm clueless about lock debugging in bitcoin. Where are each of the threads looping?
1268 2011-09-07 21:13:06 <twobits> hmmm... I would have thought bdb would have opened what it needed at the start.
1269 2011-09-07 21:13:20 <gmaxwell> twobits: apparently not, it opens and closes files perioically.
1270 2011-09-07 21:13:53 <twobits> the log file when it grows past a certain size I know,  but that should just reuse the same fd
1271 2011-09-07 21:14:08 <twobits> guess somehow that is not protected and the peer thread sometimes grabs the fd
1272 2011-09-07 21:14:41 clr_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1273 2011-09-07 21:14:41 <gmaxwell> it dies pretty fast, so it's not a difficult race whatever it is.
1274 2011-09-07 21:14:42 <b4epoche_> looks like ThreadOpenConnections and ThreadMessageHandler are the culprits
1275 2011-09-07 21:14:53 <cjdelisle> can you attach gdb and stop it when it freezed then step through it?
1276 2011-09-07 21:14:56 <gmaxwell> can you see which lock they're contending for?
1277 2011-09-07 21:15:15 <twobits> should be fixable though.
1278 2011-09-07 21:15:19 <b4epoche_> I think so….
1279 2011-09-07 21:15:28 <gmaxwell> b4epoche_: each thread will be moving in a cycle if you step it, get the cycle for each and point someone whos been working on locking at it.
1280 2011-09-07 21:15:32 <cjdelisle> yea... by switching from threads to events :P
1281 2011-09-07 21:16:35 wtfman[away] is now known as wtfman
1282 2011-09-07 21:17:06 <b4epoche_> http://snapplr.com/3457
1283 2011-09-07 21:17:44 <b4epoche_> http://snapplr.com/r40q
1284 2011-09-07 21:17:49 <cjdelisle> what is it? a visual stacktrace?
1285 2011-09-07 21:18:10 <b4epoche_> looks like ThreadOpenConnections2 and AddAddress are fighting
1286 2011-09-07 21:18:19 <b4epoche_> cjdelisle:  yes
1287 2011-09-07 21:18:30 <imsaguy> you can bypass the logfile and output everything to console
1288 2011-09-07 21:18:38 <cjdelisle> ^
1289 2011-09-07 21:18:58 <cjdelisle> or I mean cn you get the text version of that trace?
1290 2011-09-07 21:19:09 JRWR has joined
1291 2011-09-07 21:20:06 <b4epoche_> I think...
1292 2011-09-07 21:20:23 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
1293 2011-09-07 21:21:22 <b4epoche_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1041468/Time%20Profiler%20-%20WxBitcoin_Run1.csv
1294 2011-09-07 21:24:52 <b4epoche_> much less detail:  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1041468/Time%20Profiler%20-%20WxBitcoin_Run1c.csv
1295 2011-09-07 21:25:47 <cjdelisle> profiler info isn't too helpful
1296 2011-09-07 21:25:50 <cjdelisle> IMO
1297 2011-09-07 21:26:13 <jrmithdobbs> b4epoche_: how's your cocoa gui coming anyways?
1298 2011-09-07 21:26:20 <b4epoche_> basically done
1299 2011-09-07 21:26:38 <b4epoche_> just need to update for wallet encryption
1300 2011-09-07 21:27:02 TiggrBot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1301 2011-09-07 21:27:10 <b4epoche_> cjdelisle:  suggestions for tracking the issue down?
1302 2011-09-07 21:27:21 <cjdelisle> I'd be using gdb
1303 2011-09-07 21:27:40 <cjdelisle> read up on it, I think there's a way to pause the program when it starts misbehaving
1304 2011-09-07 21:28:34 <b4epoche_> pause on the 1000th call to function x?
1305 2011-09-07 21:28:47 K_F has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1306 2011-09-07 21:29:00 <b4epoche_> I think I may have figured out how to reproduce the issue…  that will make things easier
1307 2011-09-07 21:29:59 K_F has joined
1308 2011-09-07 21:30:06 <cjdelisle> I think you can send a signal which will make it pause then you can step through the code
1309 2011-09-07 21:30:15 <cjdelisle> for me to suggest and you to read up on ;)
1310 2011-09-07 21:30:45 <b4epoche_> yea, I know...
1311 2011-09-07 21:31:12 <b4epoche_> but it's probably something like what I said…  as 'misbehaving' is kinda vague
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1333 2011-09-07 22:02:27 <hugolp> Hey, I dont know who changed the bitcoin.org CSS but its wrong in Chromium (Ubuntu) and looks very unprofesional
1334 2011-09-07 22:02:39 <hugolp> some text overlaps other text and you can not read it
1335 2011-09-07 22:03:04 <imsaguy> what page?
1336 2011-09-07 22:03:16 <imsaguy> it seems to look fine in google chrome
1337 2011-09-07 22:03:52 <hugolp> bitcoin.org
1338 2011-09-07 22:03:57 <cjdelisle> it's because you have noscript
1339 2011-09-07 22:04:15 <cjdelisle> and when you disable javascript, the terrorists win
1340 2011-09-07 22:04:20 <luke-jr> looks fine in Chromium 13.0.782.107
1341 2011-09-07 22:04:25 <imsaguy> don't be scared of the javascript
1342 2011-09-07 22:04:26 <hugolp> Using chromium 12.0
1343 2011-09-07 22:04:35 <luke-jr> and Konqueror 4.6.5
1344 2011-09-07 22:04:42 <luke-jr> hugolp: then upgrade
1345 2011-09-07 22:04:45 <hugolp> cjdelisle: as far as I know I have javascript allowed
1346 2011-09-07 22:04:47 <tcatm> hugolp: does F5 fix it?
1347 2011-09-07 22:05:00 minimoose has joined
1348 2011-09-07 22:05:05 <luke-jr> he's got an old version of Chromium :p
1349 2011-09-07 22:05:26 <hugolp> luke-jr: Im using the officially un-oficial ubuntu chromium repository
1350 2011-09-07 22:05:32 <hugolp> I actually actuallized this morning
1351 2011-09-07 22:05:35 <luke-jr> so bs
1352 2011-09-07 22:06:21 <hugolp> tcatm: it actually did
1353 2011-09-07 22:06:27 <hugolp> what was going on?
1354 2011-09-07 22:07:06 <cjdelisle> haha still broken for people who don't have javascript
1355 2011-09-07 22:07:07 <cjdelisle> lolz
1356 2011-09-07 22:07:12 normanrichards has quit (Quit: normanrichards)
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1359 2011-09-07 22:07:59 <tcatm> the CSS is generated by a javascript and it looks like chrome has some trouble with anchor tags and the reset stylesheet being generated that way.
1360 2011-09-07 22:08:08 <cjdelisle> When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail
1361 2011-09-07 22:08:31 <cjdelisle> and when all you know is js, <a href> looks so uncool :P
1362 2011-09-07 22:08:52 EPiSKiNG- has quit ()
1363 2011-09-07 22:09:01 <tcatm> it would be great to have jekyll create a static CSS but I haven't figured out how to do that yet
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1366 2011-09-07 22:09:21 <hugolp> tcatm: why was the CSS changed?
1367 2011-09-07 22:09:34 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
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1369 2011-09-07 22:09:47 <tcatm> the complete website was changed (and moved to github)
1370 2011-09-07 22:10:26 <hugolp> oh, well, the page looks bad again
1371 2011-09-07 22:10:42 <hugolp> Chromium does not like the changes
1372 2011-09-07 22:10:58 <hugolp> tcatm: but what was the intention behind the change?
1373 2011-09-07 22:13:10 <tcatm> making it easier to change the site (previously it wasn't clear who should do such changes). we can now change the site using pull requests and track changes. the goal is to make it more useful for both users and developers.
1374 2011-09-07 22:15:11 <hugolp> tcatm: well, I just wanted you to know that the new design looks good if your intention is to have a page for the open source project, but its much less wellcoming for "normal" users
1375 2011-09-07 22:15:56 <cjdelisle> and it looks really slick
1376 2011-09-07 22:16:00 <cjdelisle> if you have js on :)
1377 2011-09-07 22:16:34 toffoo has joined
1378 2011-09-07 22:17:08 <hugolp> btw, I have asked some people for opinion on the changes and they had the same opinion.
1379 2011-09-07 22:17:19 <tcatm> do you have suggestions for making it better for normal users?
1380 2011-09-07 22:20:05 SISUbtc has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
1381 2011-09-07 22:20:29 <hugolp> tcatm: im no designer. I dont know what to tell you and if I tried it would end up worse. Im just telling you my and others impression. The old design looks more wellcoming for "normal" people. This new design looks more like a page of an open source project, a page for programmers.
1382 2011-09-07 22:20:54 <hugolp> Thats why I asked you what was the intention behind the change. Maybe that was exactly your intention.
1383 2011-09-07 22:21:46 ThomasV_ has joined
1384 2011-09-07 22:23:31 <tcatm> I see. So we should figure out what a "normal user" would expect to see on bitcoin.org
1385 2011-09-07 22:27:47 <hugolp> tcatm: It depends on what you want from bitcoin.org. Im just telling you the impression the new design gives.
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1389 2011-09-07 22:32:04 <jgarzik> tcatm: IMO:  bitcoin.org should (a) briefly describe the attributes of this new "startup currency, currently in the bootstrap phase" and (b) provide links to relevant open source projects like the Satoshi Client
1390 2011-09-07 22:33:55 b4epoche_ has joined
1391 2011-09-07 22:34:07 <tcatm> currently it's the home of the satoshi client. should we change that?
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1416 2011-09-07 23:02:26 <freewil> why does bitcoind return html for a 401 unauthorized?
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1426 2011-09-07 23:16:18 <gjs278> I was arguing for the site to be on github a long time ago
1427 2011-09-07 23:16:26 <gjs278> everyone told me to go start my own bitcoin website instead
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1450 2011-09-07 23:50:33 Vladimir has joined
1451 2011-09-07 23:50:59 <Vladimir> bitcoin.org.uk daily roll
1452 2011-09-07 23:51:06 <Vladimir> ;;dice 1d20
1453 2011-09-07 23:51:06 <gribble> 6
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1455 2011-09-07 23:56:34 <wtfman> ;;dice 1d20
1456 2011-09-07 23:56:34 <gribble> 13
1457 2011-09-07 23:56:44 <wtfman> PWNED
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