1 2011-09-11 00:00:55 <cjdelisle> So you end up with a wallet that works on newer versions but not on older. Since it does it silently it's a major UI issue since it seems to "eat your wallet" when it starts.
   2 2011-09-11 00:02:02 d4de has joined
   3 2011-09-11 00:02:31 <twobits> before the build docs clearly specified4.7
   4 2011-09-11 00:02:55 <cjdelisle> ahh, I don't know then
   5 2011-09-11 00:03:09 <twobits> and 4.8 already uses different formats, and is a one way ipgrade
   6 2011-09-11 00:03:11 <twobits> upgrade
   7 2011-09-11 00:03:31 <twobits> and is a lot larger the 4.7, so was curious if the upgrade was based on more then versionitis
   8 2011-09-11 00:03:39 <cjdelisle> oh so it's 4.7-4.8 not 4.8-5.0 ok I was confused
   9 2011-09-11 00:04:10 <cjdelisle> when was the patch applied?
  10 2011-09-11 00:04:17 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  11 2011-09-11 00:04:18 <twobits> yeah, 5.0 probably has some api changes.
  12 2011-09-11 00:04:41 <twobits> I don't know when it was applied, but I was looking over the 0.4.0rc stuff and its build files and noticed that.
  13 2011-09-11 00:04:41 maqr has quit (Quit: reboot)
  14 2011-09-11 00:04:59 <twobits> so sometimes between those and 0.3.34 , lol
  15 2011-09-11 00:05:15 <cjdelisle> so it's in makefile.unix?
  16 2011-09-11 00:05:27 <twobits> saw it in the makefile.mingw I think
  17 2011-09-11 00:05:59 <twobits> or maybe it was the gitian building set up files
  18 2011-09-11 00:06:45 <cjdelisle> ahh sudo apt-get install libdb4.8++-dev
  19 2011-09-11 00:07:20 cdubs has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  20 2011-09-11 00:07:59 <cjdelisle> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/b4ada906c03111404c29b115ab37afbad92f4cf1#L1L9
  21 2011-09-11 00:08:30 EskimoBob has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  22 2011-09-11 00:08:38 <Diablo-D3> bdb has few API changes btw
  23 2011-09-11 00:08:50 <Diablo-D3> every single version of bdb upgrades
  24 2011-09-11 00:08:54 <Diablo-D3> even if you open the file in read only
  25 2011-09-11 00:09:03 <twobits> ah, yeah,  comment doesnot even mention the bdb change
  26 2011-09-11 00:09:04 <Diablo-D3> so NOT upgrade databases you intend on opening in older versions
  27 2011-09-11 00:09:10 <Diablo-D3> *do
  28 2011-09-11 00:09:18 <Diablo-D3> that means only use 4.7 with bitcoin
  29 2011-09-11 00:09:19 <twobits> I am guessing no thought went into it , and it was just someone bumping it cause it was newer
  30 2011-09-11 00:09:30 <Diablo-D3> twobits: yes, idiots are idiots
  31 2011-09-11 00:09:41 <twobits> may want to tell that to whoever commitedthe build scripts then , lol
  32 2011-09-11 00:09:50 <twobits> seems 0.4.0 is going to be using 4.8
  33 2011-09-11 00:10:04 <Diablo-D3> twobits: thats okay
  34 2011-09-11 00:10:10 <Diablo-D3> 4.8 will upgrade 4.7 files
  35 2011-09-11 00:10:17 <Diablo-D3> its probably to make a uniform bdb version
  36 2011-09-11 00:10:23 <Diablo-D3> everything but OSX uses 4.7
  37 2011-09-11 00:10:25 <Diablo-D3> OSX uses 4.8
  38 2011-09-11 00:10:30 <Diablo-D3> 4.8 is API compatible with 4.7
  39 2011-09-11 00:10:39 <Diablo-D3> it just upgrades the files and you cant use them with 4.7 anymore
  40 2011-09-11 00:10:59 <twobits> I actually have been making 4.7 builds under OS X,  wound up being smaller and faster.. and let me be able to copy the files between systems.
  41 2011-09-11 00:11:24 <Diablo-D3> 4.7 historically has problems under OSX
  42 2011-09-11 00:11:26 <Diablo-D3> not sure why though
  43 2011-09-11 00:11:29 <twobits> but yeah,   seems 4.8 works, just was curious if there was now any real reaosns for the change.
  44 2011-09-11 00:11:48 <twobits> hmm.. I thinkk it did from the ports, as they messed up the dual arch stuff, worked fine build from sources though.
  45 2011-09-11 00:11:49 <Diablo-D3> well like I said, I assume its to sync the version across all OS
  46 2011-09-11 00:11:52 <cjdelisle> There's going to have to be a big warning about this if we want to upgrade
  47 2011-09-11 00:12:01 <Diablo-D3> cjdelisle: partly
  48 2011-09-11 00:12:03 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
  49 2011-09-11 00:12:08 <Diablo-D3> users should not expect to ever downgrade files
  50 2011-09-11 00:12:11 <twobits> yeah, it is also going to mess up things like multicoin.
  51 2011-09-11 00:12:22 <Diablo-D3> twobits: not at all
  52 2011-09-11 00:12:30 <Diablo-D3> any other apps would just have to rebuild their binaries
  53 2011-09-11 00:12:43 <twobits> Well, it is, since they try to support many coinbases at the same time from the same build
  54 2011-09-11 00:12:47 theorb has joined
  55 2011-09-11 00:12:57 <cjdelisle> Thing about money is if there are any surprises at all, people get really panickey.
  56 2011-09-11 00:13:00 <twobits> and unless nmc and such also upgrade it will no longer be able to work with both etc.
  57 2011-09-11 00:13:03 <Diablo-D3> other coinbases need to upgrade to 4.8
  58 2011-09-11 00:13:10 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  59 2011-09-11 00:13:10 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  60 2011-09-11 00:13:11 <Diablo-D3> they NEED to keep their bitcoin forks in sync period
  61 2011-09-11 00:13:19 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
  62 2011-09-11 00:13:29 <Diablo-D3> twobits: loading files with 4.8 upgrades the db.
  63 2011-09-11 00:13:36 copumpkin has joined
  64 2011-09-11 00:13:37 <Diablo-D3> it just screws apps where both 4.7 and 4.8 are being used concurrently
  65 2011-09-11 00:14:05 <cjdelisle> what is this about coinbases?
  66 2011-09-11 00:14:10 <Diablo-D3> like I said
  67 2011-09-11 00:14:15 <cjdelisle> they rely on db schema? o_O
  68 2011-09-11 00:14:27 <Diablo-D3> everything that isnt bitcoin that maintains a bitcoin fork needs to upgrade
  69 2011-09-11 00:14:44 <Diablo-D3> iocoin, farkcoin, whatever
  70 2011-09-11 00:14:50 <Diablo-D3> they must keep their client forks in sync period
  71 2011-09-11 00:15:08 Guest24106 has joined
  72 2011-09-11 00:15:09 <twobits> actually the won't care... since  they will just use their own db's
  73 2011-09-11 00:15:16 <cjdelisle> I don't understand what the coinbase has to do with it
  74 2011-09-11 00:15:23 <twobits> it is just tools can work on more the one chain that get messed up
  75 2011-09-11 00:16:07 <Diablo-D3> cjdelisle: bitcoin stores the entire chain in a bdb db
  76 2011-09-11 00:16:20 <cjdelisle> as long db stuff is never on the wire, it shouldn't matter what people choose to run
  77 2011-09-11 00:16:24 <Diablo-D3> if a multi coin tool accesses it with 4.8, and the bitcoind fork itself uses 4.7
  78 2011-09-11 00:16:37 <Diablo-D3> then the bitcoind fork will be unable to access it until it is upgraded to 4.8
  79 2011-09-11 00:16:49 erus` has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0.2/20110902133214])
  80 2011-09-11 00:16:54 <cjdelisle> ahh, well that's on one person's computer, it will suck but it won't break thousands of people overnight
  81 2011-09-11 00:17:04 <Diablo-D3> cjdelisle: it'll break anyone who upgrades their multi coin tool
  82 2011-09-11 00:17:08 <Diablo-D3> which is why I said what I said
  83 2011-09-11 00:17:17 <Diablo-D3> any and all changes in upstream bitcoin MUST be synced
  84 2011-09-11 00:17:19 <Diablo-D3> period
  85 2011-09-11 00:17:29 <twobits> yep, and if bitcoin switches to 4.8, they won't till be able to access it till they upgrade, but the upgrade will break it working with anything else till they also upgrade
  86 2011-09-11 00:17:35 Burgundy has joined
  87 2011-09-11 00:17:37 <Diablo-D3> iocoin, namecoin, anything
  88 2011-09-11 00:17:47 <twobits> So I was wondering if there was any technical gains at all from the upgrade
  89 2011-09-11 00:17:48 <cjdelisle> or if they just keep their data seperate or don't upgrade any of it
  90 2011-09-11 00:17:48 <Diablo-D3> which is easy as fuck since we use git
  91 2011-09-11 00:17:57 <Diablo-D3> cjdelisle: doesnt matter
  92 2011-09-11 00:18:03 <Diablo-D3> ANY bdb usage upgrades it
  93 2011-09-11 00:18:07 <Diablo-D3> even if you tell bdb to open read only
  94 2011-09-11 00:18:10 <twobits> actually building from source, has nothing to do with git.
  95 2011-09-11 00:18:17 <twobits> except for the linux build
  96 2011-09-11 00:18:27 <Diablo-D3> twobits: syncing changes across different coin chain's clients involves git
  97 2011-09-11 00:18:29 <twobits> the versions of bdb are just used as -l db_css
  98 2011-09-11 00:18:45 <twobits> so it is all dependent on what they installed that that will find
  99 2011-09-11 00:18:54 <Diablo-D3> anyhow, once everybody's shit breaks
 100 2011-09-11 00:18:56 <Diablo-D3> they will upgrade
 101 2011-09-11 00:18:58 <twobits> but which verison gets linked it does not.
 102 2011-09-11 00:19:03 <cjdelisle> still there needs to be a warning because if people think you ate their wallet they will never upgrade again.
 103 2011-09-11 00:19:18 <Diablo-D3> cjdelisle: no, not ate
 104 2011-09-11 00:19:27 <Diablo-D3> a 0.4.0 wallet cannot be loaded on pre 0.4.0
 105 2011-09-11 00:19:33 <cjdelisle> I know but they don't.
 106 2011-09-11 00:19:34 <Diablo-D3> so it'll be reverse ate.
 107 2011-09-11 00:19:49 <twobits> yes....   they will.  Just was wondering if any gains where made to make it worth forcing that upgrade ... so far all I have seen from 4.8 is a bigger footprint.
 108 2011-09-11 00:20:04 * Diablo-D3 shrugs
 109 2011-09-11 00:20:14 <Diablo-D3> I see no problem with the upgrade
 110 2011-09-11 00:20:20 <twobits> it is one good way to make sure people don't downgrade their client once they do upgrade.
 111 2011-09-11 00:20:20 <cjdelisle> also people might think it's a trick to force them not to downgrade because 0.4.0 has [insert evil feature here]
 112 2011-09-11 00:20:21 <Diablo-D3> it makes all platforms use 4.8 instead of just OSX
 113 2011-09-11 00:20:37 <Diablo-D3> cjdelisle: they can fail to exist in reality all they want
 114 2011-09-11 00:20:44 <twobits> yeah, like I said I fixed that by using 4.7 on my OSX builds.
 115 2011-09-11 00:20:51 <cjdelisle> the customer is always right
 116 2011-09-11 00:20:52 <Diablo-D3> this is a well documented and well understood problem with bdb
 117 2011-09-11 00:20:55 <twobits> found it odd that it used 4.8 and everything else 4.7 anyway.
 118 2011-09-11 00:21:05 <Diablo-D3> its a decade old+ bug.
 119 2011-09-11 00:21:50 <twobits> yeah, heck the BSD OS's stick with the 1.8 bdb, though that is mostly due to the licening I think.
 120 2011-09-11 00:22:08 <Diablo-D3> twobits: no
 121 2011-09-11 00:22:20 <Diablo-D3> BSDs do it for very specific legacy reasons
 122 2011-09-11 00:22:33 <Diablo-D3> and I think they quit doing that too
 123 2011-09-11 00:23:15 <Diablo-D3> 1.8 is like 15 years old
 124 2011-09-11 00:23:26 <Diablo-D3> and BDB itself is as old as I am
 125 2011-09-11 00:23:29 <cjdelisle> actually, the nicest thing to do would be rename the *.dat files to *.4.dat and start with a [Bitcoin is about to upgrade your wallet, after this there is no going back, you might want to backup your wallet] [ok] [cancel]
 126 2011-09-11 00:23:30 <twobits> well I was on the mailing lists when the 2.0x stuff came out, and despite Bostic trying to convince us otherwise, the choice was to fork and patch 1.8 due to the licence
 127 2011-09-11 00:23:31 <Diablo-D3> well, no, Im slightly older
 128 2011-09-11 00:23:34 <twobits> so not sure how you can say no
 129 2011-09-11 00:23:37 cdubs has joined
 130 2011-09-11 00:23:46 <twobits> and as of about a month ago, that was still what was used when I checked.
 131 2011-09-11 00:23:57 <cjdelisle> about to upgrade your wallet TO COSBYCOIN
 132 2011-09-11 00:24:00 <Diablo-D3> twobits: er, didnt the license for 2.x just become sleepycat?
 133 2011-09-11 00:24:12 <Diablo-D3> its 5.x that has the ugly license change
 134 2011-09-11 00:24:19 <Diablo-D3> 5.x is oracalized
 135 2011-09-11 00:24:32 <cjdelisle> heh
 136 2011-09-11 00:24:36 <twobits> yes, which the BSB folks did not want as it was more restrictived and had gpl like creep of requring source to be offered
 137 2011-09-11 00:24:44 <twobits> BSD
 138 2011-09-11 00:25:02 <twobits> I was on the mailing lists at the time, took part in the that debate
 139 2011-09-11 00:25:11 <twobits> so I still say that is was the issue
 140 2011-09-11 00:25:28 <twobits> want to hear why you say 'no'  and what you think it was?
 141 2011-09-11 00:25:54 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
 142 2011-09-11 00:26:12 <cjdelisle> upgrading is good but so are numbered files and warning dialogs
 143 2011-09-11 00:26:18 someguy has joined
 144 2011-09-11 00:26:34 <cjdelisle> hell, wallet.4.dat would break a bunch of wallet stealers which are in the wild :P
 145 2011-09-11 00:26:38 <twobits> and on that topic, is the rumor true that a lpgled dependency is going to be allowed in?
 146 2011-09-11 00:27:06 <twobits> hmm...  yeah,  just using -datadir=  would stop a lot of them!
 147 2011-09-11 00:27:45 <cjdelisle> but the UI issue of "it looks like a wallet but it doesn't work OMG" would be removed by calling it wallet.4.dat
 148 2011-09-11 00:30:13 <twobits> anwyay, have to go eat..
 149 2011-09-11 00:30:45 <twobits> but to summarize I see good reasons for the boost update, the wx update and the minupnpc update
 150 2011-09-11 00:31:17 <twobits> I question the bdb one and think it should be reconsidered it no other reason then 8 is greater then 7 is the reason for the change
 151 2011-09-11 00:31:59 <cjdelisle> I like updates but I also like showing people stability.
 152 2011-09-11 00:33:51 theymos has joined
 153 2011-09-11 00:35:11 <Joric> omg omg
 154 2011-09-11 00:35:38 twobits has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 155 2011-09-11 00:37:03 <xelister> hi theymos
 156 2011-09-11 00:37:18 <xelister> theymos:  you sold/given bitcointalk to mtgox? :{ ?
 157 2011-09-11 00:37:33 <phantomcircuit> inb4 /quit
 158 2011-09-11 00:37:50 <phantomcircuit> theymos, how did the investigation go?
 159 2011-09-11 00:39:04 <theymos> xelister: I never owned the forum...
 160 2011-09-11 00:39:10 <xelister> so who did?
 161 2011-09-11 00:39:17 <phantomcircuit> sirius
 162 2011-09-11 00:39:18 <makomk> sirius, wasn't it?
 163 2011-09-11 00:42:52 <makomk> theymos: presumably you have at least some idea what's going on though? sirius has been damn near invisible since before I started paying attention to bitcoin.
 164 2011-09-11 00:44:18 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * rfa790a4f127c cgminer/main.c: Fix a rare crash in HASH_DEL due to using different mutexes to protect the data.
 165 2011-09-11 00:45:25 <conman> ^_^ had no idea that would feed here
 166 2011-09-11 00:46:25 <theymos> makomk: Sirius and I don't have the necessary skill to handle this, and he's been wanting to stop handling the hosting, anyway. An email was sent to the core group to see if anyone wanted to manage hosting, and Mark voluntered. I think this is fine. Sirius will keep control of the domain name.
 167 2011-09-11 00:47:22 <makomk> Makes sense, though it does feel like a lot of stuff is becoming centralised at Mt Gox over time somehow...
 168 2011-09-11 00:47:26 surikator has joined
 169 2011-09-11 00:47:26 <xelister> theymos: so again, how is now mtgox/MagicalTux connected to the [almost]officiall bitcoin forum?!
 170 2011-09-11 00:47:56 <xelister> because I certainly do not like mtgox our most "competent" bitcoin company attempting to buy up everything -bitcoin
 171 2011-09-11 00:48:00 <theymos> He will (most likely) be running the server in the future, and he is doing the investigation.
 172 2011-09-11 00:48:10 <xelister> oh right
 173 2011-09-11 00:48:17 <xelister> mtgox is really good at Auditting
 174 2011-09-11 00:48:30 * makomk splutters
 175 2011-09-11 00:49:18 <xelister> how about someome competent at security runs a server?
 176 2011-09-11 00:49:35 <xelister> also, with this centralization, perhaps we should just rename project to mtgoxcoin and be done with it
 177 2011-09-11 00:49:52 <BTCTrader_> i know this is the internet and all but you dont have to be rude.
 178 2011-09-11 00:50:01 <makomk> xelister: someone competent at security? Have you forgotten that this is Bitcoin you're talking about?
 179 2011-09-11 00:50:27 <makomk> It seems to send anyone competent at security running...
 180 2011-09-11 00:51:43 <xelister> makomk: are you joking? bitcoin itself is the most secure thing
 181 2011-09-11 00:52:08 <xelister> also we have people who like, do NOT store passwords in md5 or plaintext etc
 182 2011-09-11 00:52:18 <Graet> some
 183 2011-09-11 00:52:29 <xelister> pick 2 of them, let them run forum
 184 2011-09-11 00:52:39 <makomk> Not joking. Bitcoin itself is secure, but the security risks of doing anything with it are enough to scare off anyone competent.
 185 2011-09-11 00:52:54 <xelister> like someone else then the 1 guy causing biggest bitcoin-world security disaster so far.
 186 2011-09-11 00:54:25 <c_k> xelister: isn't it a bit late for that now?
 187 2011-09-11 00:55:48 <Graet> tbqh i would rather tux was running the forums than bruce - apparently he offered to buy.......
 188 2011-09-11 00:56:04 <phantomcircuit> Graet, false dichotomy
 189 2011-09-11 00:56:08 <xelister> c_k: why?
 190 2011-09-11 00:56:17 <xelister> Graet: we have just 2 guys?
 191 2011-09-11 00:56:24 <c_k> xelister: hasn't theymos made his mind up?
 192 2011-09-11 00:56:28 <phantomcircuit> theymos, define "core group"
 193 2011-09-11 00:56:34 <Graet> um, who else stepped 7up?
 194 2011-09-11 00:56:39 <xelister> this is fucking outrage that the guys responsible for biggest bitcoin security FAILURE is taking over bitcoin almost-officiall forums!
 195 2011-09-11 00:56:44 <xelister> *guy
 196 2011-09-11 00:56:59 <Graet> so you do it xelister
 197 2011-09-11 00:57:21 <xelister> mtgox.com - biggest security fail in bitcoin ecosystem ; ( bitomat.pl - biggest admin fail ; mybitcoin - biggest scam )
 198 2011-09-11 00:57:34 <Graet> the thing i see about bitcoin is ppl talking ( a lot) and other ppl doing (a lot less ppl)
 199 2011-09-11 00:57:38 <xelister> Graet: out of time
 200 2011-09-11 00:57:45 <xelister> I bet there are many people that would step up.
 201 2011-09-11 00:57:51 <Graet> ohhh - yes that is very common
 202 2011-09-11 00:57:55 <xelister> there should be a vote
 203 2011-09-11 00:58:00 <Graet> how?
 204 2011-09-11 00:58:10 <Graet> in an irc chan?
 205 2011-09-11 00:58:15 <xelister> in any way OTHER then giving one of the 3 biggest failures the forum
 206 2011-09-11 00:58:19 <Graet> or a non-existent forum?
 207 2011-09-11 00:58:25 <xelister> I would rather give form to YOU then to mtgox
 208 2011-09-11 00:59:02 <xelister> theymos: why was our precious forum given to the ONE company/person that made biggest security mistake ever in bitcoin world?
 209 2011-09-11 00:59:04 <Graet> i dont hacve time either, running a pool, orgab\nising a conference kids to raise etc
 210 2011-09-11 00:59:43 <theymos> phantomcircuit: A dozen Bitcoiners. The same people who decided that the forum should be moved from bitcoin.org.
 211 2011-09-11 01:00:00 <theymos> xelister: He has the resources and the experience necessary.
 212 2011-09-11 01:00:07 <phantomcircuit> theymos, guess im not on the short list
 213 2011-09-11 01:00:09 <xelister> experience in fucking up security?!
 214 2011-09-11 01:00:23 <xelister> I do not want to say it looks like if he had payed someone
 215 2011-09-11 01:00:24 <makomk> Does this have anything to do with the rumoured attempt to buy-up the forums, by any chance?
 216 2011-09-11 01:00:36 <xelister> but it is either that or you want to on purpose sabotage bitcoin or what is this?
 217 2011-09-11 01:00:38 <imsaguy> Ultimately, whoever had/has control has the ability to give that control to someone else.
 218 2011-09-11 01:00:55 <phantomcircuit> makomk, that is not a rumor, someone offered 50k USD
 219 2011-09-11 01:00:58 <xelister> HE IS THE IDIOT THAT uses MD5 for passwords.  and he now runs bitcointalk ?!??!?
 220 2011-09-11 01:01:11 <TuxBlackEdo> YEAH
 221 2011-09-11 01:01:15 <c_k> xelister: I think the correct term is "used"
 222 2011-09-11 01:01:18 <makomk> Yeah, but there's an impressive lack of any kind of detail.
 223 2011-09-11 01:01:22 <xelister> this is bullshit, theymos
 224 2011-09-11 01:01:38 <xelister> c_k: ok, used
 225 2011-09-11 01:01:55 <xelister> this is not improving situation
 226 2011-09-11 01:02:11 <Graet> yes you have strongly voiced your opinion xelister - i think everyone here heard you. and no you arent
 227 2011-09-11 01:02:33 <c_k> xelister: we understand your concern, thanks for sharing
 228 2011-09-11 01:02:36 <theymos> Soemone offered 100k for the forum, actually.
 229 2011-09-11 01:02:50 <Guest24106> and it was turned down ?
 230 2011-09-11 01:03:04 <imsaguy> c_k, you speak for others?
 231 2011-09-11 01:03:09 <makomk> I heard that larger offer had the caveat that it had to be linked on bitcoin.org though.
 232 2011-09-11 01:03:30 <copumpkin> 100k usd or 100k btc?
 233 2011-09-11 01:03:45 <c_k> imsaguy: I'm not sure him yelling any more is going to be productive
 234 2011-09-11 01:03:59 <theymos> makomk: Right. copumpkin: USD
 235 2011-09-11 01:04:01 <copumpkin> ah
 236 2011-09-11 01:04:39 <Guest24106> oh
 237 2011-09-11 01:04:42 <xelister> sorry for yealing but this is just mind bloggling - forum given to the guy that  1) is proven careless and incopetent security wise, responsible for biggest securiyt fail EVER in bitcoin   2) already heaving 90% monopol on bitcoin traffic and now he gets the forum too?
 238 2011-09-11 01:04:50 <makomk> Anyway, I should sleep >.>
 239 2011-09-11 01:05:05 <mtrlt> xelister: don't try to convince others. it's useless >_>
 240 2011-09-11 01:05:21 <Graet> 1) can never change? if so why did ppl flock back to sony?
 241 2011-09-11 01:06:00 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 242 2011-09-11 01:06:04 <xelister> Graet: I will never in my life buy shit from sony.    1) can not change this is a certain mindset. You never ever ever ever even consider doing things like cleartext-passwords,  or yo do.
 243 2011-09-11 01:06:33 <xelister> you are a securit-cearing person or not.  Mtgox/MagicallTux is not
 244 2011-09-11 01:06:57 <Graet> so ikts not possible to learn and change ? ok. gunna take kids for a picnic, nothing is being achieved here
 245 2011-09-11 01:07:04 <c_k> xelister: once again, you might have the tense wrong there
 246 2011-09-11 01:07:30 <BTCTrader_> xelister is now on my ignore
 247 2011-09-11 01:07:33 <diki> just to ask
 248 2011-09-11 01:07:36 <xelister> he might have learned about sha1 vs md5...
 249 2011-09-11 01:07:38 <diki> when bitcoin pregenerates addresses
 250 2011-09-11 01:07:45 <xelister> but he knew about sha1 / sha256 for long long time
 251 2011-09-11 01:07:59 <diki> if one of those addresses was used in the blockchain(prior to pre-generating them) it will show up on the client right?
 252 2011-09-11 01:08:07 <copumpkin> xelister: don't hold back! tell us how you really feel
 253 2011-09-11 01:08:17 <imsaguy> yeah diki
 254 2011-09-11 01:08:19 <xelister> so this is not question of learning new security technique (10 years too late anyway), it is imo the attitude towards secuirty, and that does not change usually -- c_k
 255 2011-09-11 01:08:20 <mtrlt> diki: yea you'll get access to the money stored in there.
 256 2011-09-11 01:08:24 <imsaguy> but the chances of that happening are approach 0
 257 2011-09-11 01:08:26 <mtrlt> cool, huh?
 258 2011-09-11 01:08:31 <imsaguy> -are
 259 2011-09-11 01:08:46 <mtrlt> chances of that happening actually approach 1, given enough time ;-)
 260 2011-09-11 01:08:58 <imsaguy> mtrlt, by then, we'd be on a new standard
 261 2011-09-11 01:08:59 <mtrlt> fortunately (according to current knowledge), the universe will not have enough time.
 262 2011-09-11 01:09:25 SomeoneWeird has joined
 263 2011-09-11 01:09:33 <mtrlt> oh but i forgot that all addresses will never be used at the same time
 264 2011-09-11 01:09:35 <diki> mtrlt:and does bitcoin check if there are any dupe addresses when its pregenerating?
 265 2011-09-11 01:09:45 <mtrlt> diki: no, how would it?
 266 2011-09-11 01:09:58 <diki> well, if it pregenerates 100 bitcoin addresses on a new wallet
 267 2011-09-11 01:10:02 <c_k> xelister: I tend to agree somewhat, but you're making statements that are assumptions or mere observations of end results without knowing the processes going on that you do not hear about
 268 2011-09-11 01:10:04 <mtrlt> diki: if you and i generate the same address but we don't use it instantly..
 269 2011-09-11 01:10:16 <diki> no you misunderstand
 270 2011-09-11 01:10:33 <mtrlt> pregenerates?
 271 2011-09-11 01:10:35 <mtrlt> what is that
 272 2011-09-11 01:10:38 <diki> keypool
 273 2011-09-11 01:10:44 <mtrlt> em yeah
 274 2011-09-11 01:10:47 <mtrlt> sorry, misread >_>
 275 2011-09-11 01:10:50 <diki> #Pre-generate this many public/private key pairs, so wallet backups will be valid for
 276 2011-09-11 01:10:50 <diki> #both prior transactions and several dozen future transactions.
 277 2011-09-11 01:10:50 <diki> keypool=138600
 278 2011-09-11 01:10:53 <mtrlt> read it as "pregenerates 100 bitcoins"
 279 2011-09-11 01:11:02 <xelister> c_k: facts: DID did the biggest security failure in bitcoin.  they ARE the monopol (90% exchange).   And now they also grab the forum.  Seems very anti-decentralisation to me.
 280 2011-09-11 01:11:10 <xelister> *they DID
 281 2011-09-11 01:11:16 duck1123 has joined
 282 2011-09-11 01:11:23 Cablesaurus has joined
 283 2011-09-11 01:11:23 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
 284 2011-09-11 01:11:23 Cablesaurus has joined
 285 2011-09-11 01:11:25 <mtrlt> xelister: so, what are you gonna do about decentralizing bitcoin?
 286 2011-09-11 01:11:35 <diki> point is, when bitcoin makes 100 new addresses does it check if a dupe is already in the wallet?
 287 2011-09-11 01:11:50 <mtrlt> diki: i'd assume no, because it is next to impossible.
 288 2011-09-11 01:11:57 <mtrlt> but i don't know.
 289 2011-09-11 01:12:03 <xelister> mtrlt: forum should be given to other party then the monopol
 290 2011-09-11 01:12:06 <diki> what would happen if two addresses exist within the same wallet?
 291 2011-09-11 01:12:08 <mtrlt> i mean having a dupe is next to impossible
 292 2011-09-11 01:12:17 <mtrlt> xelister: free market
 293 2011-09-11 01:12:31 <mtrlt> diki: try it :P
 294 2011-09-11 01:12:33 <xelister> mtrlt: I understand the forum was just "given"
 295 2011-09-11 01:12:42 <diki> mtrlt:my wallet is already 88 megabytes...
 296 2011-09-11 01:12:46 <diki> cant take anymore hehe :D
 297 2011-09-11 01:12:48 <mtrlt> diki: testnet
 298 2011-09-11 01:12:54 <imsaguy> xelister, are you trying to say 'conflict of interest'?
 299 2011-09-11 01:12:54 <mtrlt> and generate a new wallet there :p
 300 2011-09-11 01:13:01 <xelister> theymos: was the forum http://bitcointalk.org/ given or sold for something to mtgox?
 301 2011-09-11 01:13:09 <theymos> xelister: No.
 302 2011-09-11 01:13:15 <theymos> xelister: Given, I mean.
 303 2011-09-11 01:13:22 <mtrlt> not given or given?
 304 2011-09-11 01:13:22 <xelister> just given for free?
 305 2011-09-11 01:13:24 <diki> theymos:what language is BA written in?
 306 2011-09-11 01:13:24 <mtrlt> :p
 307 2011-09-11 01:13:31 <diki> *BE
 308 2011-09-11 01:13:37 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
 309 2011-09-11 01:13:38 <diki> be=blockexplorer
 310 2011-09-11 01:13:46 <xelister> theymos: who was owning the bitcointalk.org ?
 311 2011-09-11 01:13:50 <theymos> diki: PHP. I'm currently rewriting the backend in C++, though.
 312 2011-09-11 01:13:56 <copumpkin> :O
 313 2011-09-11 01:13:57 <theymos> xelister: Sirius
 314 2011-09-11 01:14:01 <copumpkin> C++
 315 2011-09-11 01:14:02 <diki> theymos:i tried opening the wallet myself with dba
 316 2011-09-11 01:14:06 <xelister> sirius: hi?
 317 2011-09-11 01:14:07 <diki> but i got tons of errors
 318 2011-09-11 01:14:14 <xelister> and who now owns the domain?
 319 2011-09-11 01:14:14 <diki> any ideas what i am missing?
 320 2011-09-11 01:14:27 <diki> i used dba4 handler
 321 2011-09-11 01:14:39 <copumpkin> dba?
 322 2011-09-11 01:14:57 <copumpkin> it's bdb
 323 2011-09-11 01:15:01 SomeoneWeird has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 324 2011-09-11 01:15:02 minimoose has joined
 325 2011-09-11 01:15:06 <theymos> diki: BBE works using using the getblockbycount patch, and my new version works by talking to Bitcoin over the network. I'm not familiar with the databse.
 326 2011-09-11 01:15:18 <diki> oh so you use getworks?
 327 2011-09-11 01:15:26 <theymos> No, getblockbycount.
 328 2011-09-11 01:15:33 <diki> no i mean getworks in general
 329 2011-09-11 01:15:35 dinox has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 330 2011-09-11 01:15:43 <diki> i.e communicating over the rpc
 331 2011-09-11 01:15:56 <theymos> Yeah, though I wouldn't call that "getworks"...
 332 2011-09-11 01:16:14 <diki> then how do you search for...addresses and such?
 333 2011-09-11 01:16:16 denisx has joined
 334 2011-09-11 01:16:25 <diki> getblock patches?
 335 2011-09-11 01:16:36 <c_k> xelister: who owns the domain? A: http://www.who.is/whois/bitcointalk.org/
 336 2011-09-11 01:16:53 semb has joined
 337 2011-09-11 01:17:07 <denisx> why has the bit coin chart page another difficulty than the block explorer page?
 338 2011-09-11 01:17:11 <semb> Anyone here understand transaction updates?
 339 2011-09-11 01:17:40 <imsaguy> c_k, that page is useless
 340 2011-09-11 01:17:46 <imsaguy> the info is privacy listed
 341 2011-09-11 01:18:11 Titeuf_87 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 342 2011-09-11 01:18:22 <c_k> imsaguy: the domain is technically owned by Register4Less Privacy Advocate
 343 2011-09-11 01:18:29 <c_k> no-one else
 344 2011-09-11 01:18:38 <diki> theymos:if it isnt much trouble for you, can you link me to all the patches you use? I've been dying to make myself a small blockexplorer for personal use
 345 2011-09-11 01:19:24 <c_k> diki: what about ABE?
 346 2011-09-11 01:19:30 <diki> abe?
 347 2011-09-11 01:19:36 <c_k> diki: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Abe
 348 2011-09-11 01:20:19 <diki> will check it out
 349 2011-09-11 01:20:20 <xelister> c_k: this whois does not seem to resolve to any guy identificable on irc... do you know who it is
 350 2011-09-11 01:20:35 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
 351 2011-09-11 01:20:49 <xelister> right, I ment is sirius or mtgox controling bitcointalk.org domain?
 352 2011-09-11 01:20:59 minimoose has joined
 353 2011-09-11 01:21:04 <nanotube> afaik, theymos is the head honcho of bitcoin forums
 354 2011-09-11 01:21:15 <xelister> honcho?
 355 2011-09-11 01:21:32 <theymos> diki: This is the patch I use: http://pastebin.com/G5X40CNu . It's slightly modified from jgarzik's version. In particular, it has some redundant data and values are returned as strings instead of doubles.
 356 2011-09-11 01:22:02 <c_k> xelister: the guy who is doing it now is merely involved with MtGox, that doesn't mean MtGox is involved at all.
 357 2011-09-11 01:22:15 <nanotube> theymos: what did i miss, is mtux taking over the hosting of bitcoin forums?
 358 2011-09-11 01:22:16 <diki> theymos:thanks mate
 359 2011-09-11 01:22:22 <theymos> nanotube: Yes.
 360 2011-09-11 01:22:36 <diki> Also, i havent been reading much about the forums
 361 2011-09-11 01:22:41 <diki> but why are they down?
 362 2011-09-11 01:22:46 <nanotube> theymos: hm, interesting.
 363 2011-09-11 01:23:20 <xelister> nanotube: well do something... this is an outrage
 364 2011-09-11 01:23:37 <xelister> in moments like this even I start to loose confidence in this goxcoin project.
 365 2011-09-11 01:23:55 <nanotube> xelister: haha, well, i have no desire to manage bitcointalk.org either. do you? (and do you have the time and expertise to back it up?)
 366 2011-09-11 01:24:00 <xelister> 3 hacks destroy trust in bitcoin project... and then the first responsible guy grabs the main forum! awesome.... wtf
 367 2011-09-11 01:24:08 <imsaguy> lets face it
 368 2011-09-11 01:24:11 <imsaguy> the forums suck anyway
 369 2011-09-11 01:24:14 <imsaguy> too many trolls
 370 2011-09-11 01:24:38 zagitta has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 371 2011-09-11 01:25:16 <xelister> forum is still forum
 372 2011-09-11 01:25:21 <xelister> the "almost" officiall one
 373 2011-09-11 01:26:08 <c_k> bitcointalk.org it is now simply the most popular bitcoin forum, nothing more.
 374 2011-09-11 01:26:10 <xelister> if you think bitcoin will do well with 1 company owning everything semi-officiall about it... then something went very wrong on your libertarian/p2p/distributed-projects education ;)
 375 2011-09-11 01:26:40 <xelister> right, 1 company owning most officiall forum (90% taffic) and 90% of exchange volume
 376 2011-09-11 01:26:45 <theymos> Bitcoin Block Explorer is also usually hosted by MtGox. ;)
 377 2011-09-11 01:26:53 <nanotube> xelister: well, if you can find someone else who's trustworthy and has the experience/desire to do it, you're more than welcome to throw his candidacy into the ring
 378 2011-09-11 01:27:02 <xelister> but expeerience in what?
 379 2011-09-11 01:27:05 <xelister> in getting owned?
 380 2011-09-11 01:27:29 <xelister> in using secuirty messures that 17 years old with IT training would stay away from?
 381 2011-09-11 01:27:50 <xelister> mtgox is the worst possible person ever to hold forum
 382 2011-09-11 01:28:16 <xelister> given hacking and monopol
 383 2011-09-11 01:28:29 <kinlo> at least they're trying to help the community
 384 2011-09-11 01:28:31 <nanotube> well, i don't see you jumping at the chance to manage the forums :)
 385 2011-09-11 01:28:47 <xelister> kinlo: they are earning 100,000 USD per month, of course they try to "help"
 386 2011-09-11 01:28:52 <WakiMiko> i sold all my coins because the forums got hacekd xd
 387 2011-09-11 01:29:02 <WakiMiko> x to the d
 388 2011-09-11 01:29:31 <kinlo> xelister: feel free to start your own exchange
 389 2011-09-11 01:30:04 <xelister> kinlo: how this will fix mtgox security failure from owning the forum every new users things is the officiall forum
 390 2011-09-11 01:30:13 <xelister> thinks
 391 2011-09-11 01:30:37 <kinlo> xelister: it won't but as long as nobody else steps forward to host it...
 392 2011-09-11 01:30:51 <xelister> what is wrong with previous host?
 393 2011-09-11 01:31:04 <xelister> just someone forgot to upgrade the scripts to patched version that is all
 394 2011-09-11 01:31:35 <WakiMiko> do we know anything about how the forumes got hacked? was it a smf security issue?
 395 2011-09-11 01:31:49 <xelister> nanotube: ok, if I (or rather my friends, can't work 6 shifts...) step up with competent server and administration, will you then let us host the forum?
 396 2011-09-11 01:31:57 <someguy> https://bitcoin.org.uk/forums/topic/244-confirmed-bitcointalk-hack-rumour-sirius-to-resign-mtgox-will-take-over-management-of-bitcointalk-forum/page__view__findpost__p__1420
 397 2011-09-11 01:32:30 <xelister> forum would be as it is, very open, no topics deleted - at worst moved to offtopic (ok except totally illegall posts)
 398 2011-09-11 01:32:46 noagendamarket has joined
 399 2011-09-11 01:32:53 <nanotube> xelister: well, i have to say in it... you'd have to talk it over with theymos and sirius and mtux . i as far as forums go, i'm "just another user"
 400 2011-09-11 01:33:15 <xelister> well, theymos^ ?
 401 2011-09-11 01:33:23 * xelister pokes sirius with a sharp stick
 402 2011-09-11 01:34:39 dinox has joined
 403 2011-09-11 01:35:32 abstinence has joined
 404 2011-09-11 01:35:39 Cusipzzz has joined
 405 2011-09-11 01:36:20 <xelister> theymos: I think we should have a community of known people togeather responsible for the forum; they would select administrators and ways to fund forum maintaince/hosting
 406 2011-09-11 01:36:50 <theymos> xelister: This is essentially how it is now.
 407 2011-09-11 01:36:50 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * cacc806776e7 r48 /src/main/java/com/shadworld/poolserver/ (3 files in 3 dirs): - updates to longpolling system. Prevent double counting of LP connections on LP expire. Prevent double sending to LP clients. Re-use work for next client if failed to send for any reason.
 408 2011-09-11 01:37:12 <xelister> theymos: but you also said mtgox now owns the forum...
 409 2011-09-11 01:37:24 <xelister> theymos: how about a summary/statement what exactly goes on here
 410 2011-09-11 01:37:27 <theymos> xelister: No. MtGox now *hosts* the forum.
 411 2011-09-11 01:37:40 <xelister> just provides the LAMP account?
 412 2011-09-11 01:37:56 <xelister> btw, so now mtgox has access ALSO to the FORUM database?  *faaaacepalm*
 413 2011-09-11 01:38:23 * xelister wonders when forum users DB will get 'audited' too.
 414 2011-09-11 01:38:26 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
 415 2011-09-11 01:38:30 <someguy> does not hosts includes having acces to all the data, databases PM's etc... ?
 416 2011-09-11 01:38:35 <abstinence> lol
 417 2011-09-11 01:38:46 <abstinence> yes indeed xelister
 418 2011-09-11 01:38:49 minimoose has joined
 419 2011-09-11 01:38:50 <xelister> neat now mtgox can check who was talking bad about his goxxings
 420 2011-09-11 01:39:08 <xelister> presenting mtgox, the Microsoft of bitcoin. Big incopetent monopol grabbing everything
 421 2011-09-11 01:39:09 <someguy> we are all goxed now, big time
 422 2011-09-11 01:39:29 <AnnihilaT> ill host the forums
 423 2011-09-11 01:39:31 <AnnihilaT> for free
 424 2011-09-11 01:39:32 johnj__ has joined
 425 2011-09-11 01:39:37 <AnnihilaT> if its not a done deal
 426 2011-09-11 01:39:39 <AnnihilaT> with gox
 427 2011-09-11 01:39:45 <xelister> theymos: who the hell decided to give our private data to the /retard/ that allowed to use md5 passwords in money handling
 428 2011-09-11 01:39:45 <AnnihilaT> just throwing out the offer
 429 2011-09-11 01:39:49 <AnnihilaT> officially
 430 2011-09-11 01:39:54 <AnnihilaT> for the record
 431 2011-09-11 01:39:58 <xelister> and got his bank-administrating computer troyaned
 432 2011-09-11 01:40:34 <someguy> congrafuckinlations!
 433 2011-09-11 01:41:03 <c_k> don't forget humans generally learn from mistakes
 434 2011-09-11 01:41:11 <abstinence> these are school boy errors
 435 2011-09-11 01:41:13 <c_k> so maybe MagicalTux is the best guy to do it
 436 2011-09-11 01:41:26 <c_k> sure, there will always be someone else who is a better fit
 437 2011-09-11 01:41:38 <c_k> but he has the resources to do so
 438 2011-09-11 01:41:53 <xelister> bitcoin may be rotting.. first the ecosystem did stupid things.. "lost" wallets etc.. but now also the core developers just give away (for free?) most important parts of bitcoin Project to the ones responsible for previous failure
 439 2011-09-11 01:42:28 <xelister> c_k: learn by mistakes? all other people learned 10 years ago to not use md5. Apparently something very wrong with his learning
 440 2011-09-11 01:42:29 <noagendamarket> next thing mt gox will own bitcoin.org
 441 2011-09-11 01:42:33 <WakiMiko> damn u core devs why u give away my shis
 442 2011-09-11 01:42:36 <WakiMiko> t
 443 2011-09-11 01:42:50 <c_k> my only concern is that he already has so many other things to concentrate on
 444 2011-09-11 01:42:53 <copumpkin> xelister: the issue with the mtgox leak had nothing to do with md5
 445 2011-09-11 01:43:17 <copumpkin> or md5's weaknesses
 446 2011-09-11 01:43:21 <someguy> they were warned in mail discussions to take care of private data of forum members and not to give it to mtgox
 447 2011-09-11 01:43:26 <someguy> it was ignored
 448 2011-09-11 01:43:47 <c_k> xelister: so what? surely he learned from the mistake, no-one is perfect
 449 2011-09-11 01:43:59 <xelister> copumpkin: yes, "just" with the fact that they had bank-administrating computer owned by troyan. Excelent. And md5 helped to attack it even more and get people passwords
 450 2011-09-11 01:44:23 <copumpkin> no, md5's weaknesses didn't help the attack/leak at all
 451 2011-09-11 01:44:30 <copumpkin> it was just the wrong tool for the job
 452 2011-09-11 01:44:42 <MagicalTux> yeah, bsd-md5, which is still used by most linux distros
 453 2011-09-11 01:44:58 <xelister> c_k: if a doctor amputates patients left leg,  instead of ripping his right upper 7th teeth, then he is not doing a mistake, he is an idiot
 454 2011-09-11 01:45:20 <WakiMiko> i still have both of my legs
 455 2011-09-11 01:45:37 <xelister> if someone uses md5 in website doing anything related to security in 2010/2011, then he have no clue what he is doing
 456 2011-09-11 01:46:07 <copumpkin> if someone lambastes someone else for doing security wrong for using md5 without knowing what weaknesses are in md5, same conclusion
 457 2011-09-11 01:46:12 <copumpkin> :)
 458 2011-09-11 01:46:26 <xelister> copumpkin: md5 was a sign of incopetence,
 459 2011-09-11 01:46:30 <copumpkin> I can use md5 just fine (although it'd be a bit silly) to build a hashtable
 460 2011-09-11 01:46:31 <xelister> and a way to recover user's passwords
 461 2011-09-11 01:46:33 <copumpkin> or a bloom filter
 462 2011-09-11 01:46:40 <copumpkin> xelister: what would you have used?
 463 2011-09-11 01:46:42 <xelister> computer troyan was the main way of break-in
 464 2011-09-11 01:46:50 <xelister> and sql-injections where prestent too
 465 2011-09-11 01:47:05 <xelister> everyone makest mistakes but this is just totally wrong approach
 466 2011-09-11 01:47:40 <xelister> copumpkin: at least sha256 obviously, but better this bcrypt. and salted
 467 2011-09-11 01:47:51 <copumpkin> sha256 would have made absolutely 0 difference
 468 2011-09-11 01:47:55 <xelister> I want bitcointalk.org hosted
 469 2011-09-11 01:48:16 <xelister> 1) by people that do not get their most important, money-handling, computers troyaned
 470 2011-09-11 01:48:24 <xelister> 2) by people that would always use sha* in situation like this
 471 2011-09-11 01:48:28 <xelister> simple. can we do this, theymos
 472 2011-09-11 01:48:32 <copumpkin> crypt is the correct answer :) or pbkdf2 or something like that
 473 2011-09-11 01:48:34 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * 730ebcf503ea r49 /src/main/java/com/shadworld/poolserver/BlockChainTracker.java: - checking longpollUnregeisteredWaitlocks set was for wrong type.
 474 2011-09-11 01:49:06 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
 475 2011-09-11 01:49:36 <xelister> MagicalTux: you do realize by owning so much of bitcoin-everything you are killing the project / turning it into paypal2 ?
 476 2011-09-11 01:49:46 <theymos> xelister: He's already had access to the database for a while now, so there's no point in giving someone *else* with less resources and experience access, as well.
 477 2011-09-11 01:49:53 <xelister> initiall goxxing was first huge negative signall
 478 2011-09-11 01:49:58 <xelister> then other hacks
 479 2011-09-11 01:50:11 Joric has quit ()
 480 2011-09-11 01:50:12 <c_k> xelister: pay attention to the details, he's only hosting it :)
 481 2011-09-11 01:50:14 <xelister> and today... forums owned.. and then forums transffered to mtgox even worse
 482 2011-09-11 01:50:28 <xelister> c_k: only hosting == has access to DB. Perhaps another "audit" anyone?
 483 2011-09-11 01:50:29 * copumpkin wipes some of the froth off xelister's mouth
 484 2011-09-11 01:51:15 <xelister> theymos: at least for me it is a signall to stay away from this forum
 485 2011-09-11 01:51:26 <c_k> xelister: take your hands off the keyboard, read what theymos just said and think for a minute
 486 2011-09-11 01:51:53 <xelister> yeap after considering already our DB leaked to mtgox, I am extra sure to not continue putting new data in it
 487 2011-09-11 01:52:56 <xelister> since 90% of trade and 90% of information is controlled by 1 organization, how exactly is now bitcoin decentralized for a typical user (that needs exchanges, forums, and does not have time to exstra look for alterntives)?
 488 2011-09-11 01:53:31 <c_k> I, for one, welcome our new MtGox overlords
 489 2011-09-11 01:53:59 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
 490 2011-09-11 01:54:20 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * rebae03..d5fe2c cgminer/ (adl.c miner.h main.c): (5 commits)
 491 2011-09-11 01:57:17 <xelister> c_k: cool and I welcome our paypal overlord, but how is this decentralization?
 492 2011-09-11 02:02:07 someguy has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 493 2011-09-11 02:02:38 OneMINER has joined
 494 2011-09-11 02:02:40 <c_k> xelister: you are either a troll or not being rational, MtGox is currently only 75.89% of the exchange market
 495 2011-09-11 02:03:28 <xelister> clearly a monopol still
 496 2011-09-11 02:03:34 <c_k> ah, I'm wrong, what ever, goodbye
 497 2011-09-11 02:03:39 someguy has joined
 498 2011-09-11 02:04:11 <xelister> speaking of >50%, also big pools represent some problem... how is p2pool comming along?
 499 2011-09-11 02:04:12 <copumpkin> xelister's crusade!
 500 2011-09-11 02:04:40 <xelister> yeap crusade against centralizing our wonderfull decentralized payments
 501 2011-09-11 02:06:41 <c_k> 76.5% is the correct number
 502 2011-09-11 02:06:59 <imsaguy> "super majority"
 503 2011-09-11 02:07:03 <c_k> that used to be higher
 504 2011-09-11 02:07:09 <c_k> what brought it down?
 505 2011-09-11 02:07:12 <c_k> competition
 506 2011-09-11 02:07:23 <imsaguy> nah
 507 2011-09-11 02:07:26 <imsaguy> all the altcoins
 508 2011-09-11 02:07:43 normanrichards has joined
 509 2011-09-11 02:07:58 <c_k> I'm only comparing bitcoin exchanges listed on the front page of bitcoinwatch.com
 510 2011-09-11 02:09:03 <imsaguy> did you consolidate the multiple currencies?
 511 2011-09-11 02:09:11 <c_k> yeah
 512 2011-09-11 02:09:15 <imsaguy> ok
 513 2011-09-11 02:09:32 Maged has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0.2/20110902133214])
 514 2011-09-11 02:10:47 <c_k> initially I didn't, so the difference of 0.61% was the currencies other than USD for MtGox
 515 2011-09-11 02:10:55 <c_k> I think this is all a bit OT for bitcoin-dev anyway :S
 516 2011-09-11 02:11:13 kgo has joined
 517 2011-09-11 02:11:39 <imsaguy> c_k, what other channel would you propose? plain old #bitcoin?
 518 2011-09-11 02:11:53 <kgo> I just filled up an Amazon ec2 partition because .bitcoin/database is 3.5 GB.  Is this normal?  Is there a way to safely prune this directory?
 519 2011-09-11 02:13:33 <xelister> kgo: I have 1.4 G on mining node
 520 2011-09-11 02:13:41 <xelister> of entire ~/.bitcoin
 521 2011-09-11 02:14:00 <kgo> My normal bitcoin client is also like 1.1 G.
 522 2011-09-11 02:14:01 <Graet> http://forum.bitcoin.com.au/index.php  a forum thats up - only couple of days old
 523 2011-09-11 02:14:12 <kgo> Even 1.4 G would be better than 3.5.
 524 2011-09-11 02:14:23 <xelister> this seems a bit wrong..
 525 2011-09-11 02:16:55 <kgo> On my normal client, the database/ dir has files starting with log.0000000299 and going up to 314.
 526 2011-09-11 02:17:19 <kgo> On the ec2 instance, it goes from 1 to 369
 527 2011-09-11 02:19:11 <xelister> not sure..
 528 2011-09-11 02:19:27 <xelister> kgo: try waiting for other devels to reply
 529 2011-09-11 02:19:41 <kgo> Yeah, I tried killing the bitcoin process and restarting, because my 'real' wallet goes up and down.  that did nothing.
 530 2011-09-11 02:19:42 grubles has joined
 531 2011-09-11 02:19:56 <kgo> Anyway, thanks for the input.  I'll go back into lurker mode.
 532 2011-09-11 02:20:12 <cjdelisle> kgo did you build that client on the ec2 node?
 533 2011-09-11 02:20:36 <kgo> No, I just downloaded the binary.  It's still .23.  Maybe I should see what an upgrade does.
 534 2011-09-11 02:21:05 <kgo> I freed up some other space, so I'm not dead now.  Just figured I better run yum update after the last round of hack attacks.
 535 2011-09-11 02:21:12 <cjdelisle> if they were different versions than that might explain the difference in the database
 536 2011-09-11 02:21:41 <kgo> Yeah, I'll give an upgrade a try.
 537 2011-09-11 02:21:55 <cjdelisle> or compile it yourself
 538 2011-09-11 02:22:22 <cjdelisle> with hardening flags to make it difficult/impossible to exploit even if a vuln is found in bitcoind ;)
 539 2011-09-11 02:22:31 <xelister> MagicalTux: btw, might I inquery, that guy working with/for you, that got his computer hacked and leaked all mtgox users and almost allowes 500,000 usd theft.. what OS was that?
 540 2011-09-11 02:22:33 <kgo> eh, If I'm already out of disk space, I'm reluctant to install the whole build chain onto this instance.
 541 2011-09-11 02:22:34 <cjdelisle> https://github.com/cjdelisle/bitcoin/blob/948177cc9978ff6bf34a5a8a0f828e1b7f114ca2/src/makefile.unix#L39
 542 2011-09-11 02:22:42 <cjdelisle> that's cool
 543 2011-09-11 02:22:48 <cjdelisle> *fine
 544 2011-09-11 02:22:54 <kgo> But I'll keep that in mind for another day.
 545 2011-09-11 02:23:13 <MagicalTux> xelister: "that guy" is Jed, go ask him yourself
 546 2011-09-11 02:24:56 gummy has joined
 547 2011-09-11 02:25:07 <cjdelisle> kgo: http://wiki.debian.org/mmap_min_addr <-- that's why fedora/centos gets a bad name, I think you can set it to 4096 as it should be though.
 548 2011-09-11 02:25:15 KArmitt has joined
 549 2011-09-11 02:26:05 <xelister> cjdelisle: huh? how that should affect size of files created by bitcoind??
 550 2011-09-11 02:26:13 <diki> well i am trying this abe (blockexplorer in python) but
 551 2011-09-11 02:26:18 <diki> it says it cant connect to mysql...
 552 2011-09-11 02:26:38 <cjdelisle> xelister:  he was just talking about hardening, that's an easy trick and it foils a ton of rootkits
 553 2011-09-11 02:26:47 <xelister> ah. yes
 554 2011-09-11 02:26:51 <xelister> cjdelisle: also grsecurity
 555 2011-09-11 02:26:55 <cjdelisle> indeed
 556 2011-09-11 02:27:03 <xelister> there's even freesite mirror of it's manuall
 557 2011-09-11 02:27:18 <xelister> if one day usa home of the brave declares it weapon or something hehe
 558 2011-09-11 02:28:10 <kgo> Note to sourceforge, it'd be really nice if your download links worked iwth curl.
 559 2011-09-11 02:28:34 <cjdelisle> grsec is like the only security package I can stand behind, selinux and app armor are bad jokes
 560 2011-09-11 02:29:17 CaptainDDL has joined
 561 2011-09-11 02:29:24 <cjdelisle> I remember reading exploit code where they were like: "turn off selinux but make it look like it's on so the retards will think it's working"
 562 2011-09-11 02:30:04 <phantomcircuit> grsec is hardcore
 563 2011-09-11 02:30:10 <phantomcircuit> but setting it up right is a bitch
 564 2011-09-11 02:30:29 <phantomcircuit> i've never seen a properly setup selinux box either
 565 2011-09-11 02:30:38 <phantomcircuit> they're always in permissive mode
 566 2011-09-11 02:31:07 <cjdelisle> that's what happens after the first "oh fuck this" moment
 567 2011-09-11 02:31:38 <phantomcircuit> lol
 568 2011-09-11 02:31:39 <forrestv> xelister, p2pool is improving ... a big hurdle right now is getting https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/476 into a release so people don't have to patch their bitcoind
 569 2011-09-11 02:31:50 <phantomcircuit> redhat comes with selinux on by default in permissive mode
 570 2011-09-11 02:32:02 <phantomcircuit> nobody ever knows enough about it to realize that it's 100% uselss like that
 571 2011-09-11 02:32:08 <cjdelisle> grsec does some neat stuff to prevent attacks though like blocking a program from forking after a fork has died of a "stack smashing detected" error.
 572 2011-09-11 02:32:34 <cjdelisle> blocks it for 30 seconds to prevent brute forcing the canary value
 573 2011-09-11 02:32:54 <xelister> grsec own
 574 2011-09-11 02:32:56 <xelister> owns
 575 2011-09-11 02:33:01 <cjdelisle> that will actually save you, locking down files so root can't edit them won't.
 576 2011-09-11 02:33:04 <xelister> I wish kernel would include it finally
 577 2011-09-11 02:33:42 <kgo> Regarding my problem, it seems kill -HUP does a better job cleaning up than kill -9 ;-)
 578 2011-09-11 02:34:15 <cjdelisle> oh yea, bitcoind tries to clean up when it gets a sigterm
 579 2011-09-11 02:34:18 twobits has joined
 580 2011-09-11 02:34:36 <kgo> I actally don't think I've ever killed it at all on this server before.
 581 2011-09-11 02:35:10 Burgundy has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 582 2011-09-11 02:35:27 <cjdelisle> as a general rule, kill9 should never be used unless that's all that's left.
 583 2011-09-11 02:36:28 <kgo> Yeah, I was just being lazy, of course.  I realized that when I close the gui client, it takes forever to shut down.  Didn't take long to put 2 and 2 together.
 584 2011-09-11 02:36:40 <kgo> In my head I think of -HUP as restarting some forking server.
 585 2011-09-11 02:36:46 <kgo> Which I know is wrong.
 586 2011-09-11 02:37:31 <cjdelisle> it takes a long time because it basicly sets fShutdown to TRUE and waits for all of the threads to encounter an if(fShutdown)
 587 2011-09-11 02:38:20 <cjdelisle> but it's safer than freeing the memory out from under a program which manages a database which is, afterall, your wallet.
 588 2011-09-11 02:38:22 <kgo> Sorry, I'm not complaining.  I knew it was doing a bunch of stuff that kill -9 wouldn't is all.
 589 2011-09-11 02:39:00 <cjdelisle> No, not at all. I was just sharing what I know from reading the source in the last few days.
 590 2011-09-11 02:39:45 <phantomcircuit> it also deadlocks sometimes though
 591 2011-09-11 02:39:46 <phantomcircuit> so
 592 2011-09-11 02:39:48 <phantomcircuit> keep that in mind
 593 2011-09-11 02:40:09 * cjdelisle hate threads
 594 2011-09-11 02:44:21 TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)
 595 2011-09-11 02:44:24 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * rb4009adaaca7 cgminer/adl.c: Remove redundant check.
 596 2011-09-11 02:44:26 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r88eb514cd1d5 cgminer/adl.c: Only display supported values from fanspeed on change settings.
 597 2011-09-11 02:44:30 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * rd42211f09a1e cgminer/main.c: Missing bracket from output.
 598 2011-09-11 02:44:30 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r863488e3d0db cgminer/main.c: Display fan percentage on devices that only support reporting percent and not RPM.
 599 2011-09-11 02:44:38 [7] has joined
 600 2011-09-11 02:45:51 someguy has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 601 2011-09-11 02:48:32 <xelister> tcatm: why was ganji removed from devels list
 602 2011-09-11 02:52:01 brunner has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 603 2011-09-11 02:52:51 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * bdf5a3d4dcc6 r50 /src/main/java/com/shadworld/poolserver/ (source/WorkSource.java servlet/MgmtInterfaceServlet.java): (log message trimmed)
 604 2011-09-11 02:52:51 <CIA-101> poolserverj: - new mgmt interface methods:
 605 2011-09-11 02:52:51 <CIA-101> poolserverj: ?method=setCacheSize&source=<mySourceName>&value=<value>
 606 2011-09-11 02:52:51 <CIA-101> poolserverj: ?method=setMaxConcurrentDl&source=<mySourceName>&value=<value>
 607 2011-09-11 02:52:51 <CIA-101> poolserverj: ?method=setMaxWorkAgeToFlush&source=<mySourceName>&value=<value>
 608 2011-09-11 02:52:51 <CIA-101> poolserverj: ?method=setAllCacheSize&value=<value>
 609 2011-09-11 02:52:52 <CIA-101> poolserverj: ?method=setAllMaxConcurrentDl&value=<value>
 610 2011-09-11 02:55:21 brunner has joined
 611 2011-09-11 02:56:11 surikator has quit (Quit: Computer is sleeping. I'm probably not.)
 612 2011-09-11 02:56:22 <luke-jr> erm
 613 2011-09-11 02:56:28 <luke-jr> I thought CIA was trimming msgs?
 614 2011-09-11 02:58:32 ThomasV has joined
 615 2011-09-11 03:00:10 kish has quit (Quit: leaving)
 616 2011-09-11 03:01:30 Obsi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 617 2011-09-11 03:03:25 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * 6fd9e4fac02d r51 /src/main/java/com/shadworld/poolserver/source/WorkSource.java:
 618 2011-09-11 03:03:25 <CIA-101> poolserverj: - force cache to be trimmed if shrinking cache size. If left untrimmed this can
 619 2011-09-11 03:03:25 <CIA-101> poolserverj: result in a lag when all the work expires. Normally as work is request it will
 620 2011-09-11 03:03:25 <CIA-101> poolserverj: open up a slot for fresh work to be fetched. However due to cache being
 621 2011-09-11 03:03:25 <CIA-101> poolserverj: oversized this doesn't happen. It's possible for the entire to end up getting
 622 2011-09-11 03:03:26 <CIA-101> poolserverj: purged so the server has to catch up filling the cache from daemon while
 623 2011-09-11 03:03:26 <CIA-101> poolserverj: servicing requests.
 624 2011-09-11 03:14:53 try has joined
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 626 2011-09-11 03:20:33 <noagendamarket> http://meta.bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/124/who-should-control-the-bitcoin-discussion
 627 2011-09-11 03:20:47 <Gekz> me
 628 2011-09-11 03:20:47 <noagendamarket> Started a discussion about the forum on stack exchange
 629 2011-09-11 03:20:48 <Gekz> I should
 630 2011-09-11 03:20:54 <noagendamarket> lol
 631 2011-09-11 03:21:03 <Gekz> I decide to ban the use of the word
 632 2011-09-11 03:21:05 <Gekz> "currency"
 633 2011-09-11 03:21:07 <Gekz> on the forum
 634 2011-09-11 03:21:15 <Gekz> also "gold standard" and "anonymous"
 635 2011-09-11 03:21:22 <Gekz> oh, and "untraceable"
 636 2011-09-11 03:21:31 <MagicalTux> Gekz: how about stopping to be a troll ?
 637 2011-09-11 03:21:40 <Gekz> I did stop to be a troll
 638 2011-09-11 03:23:24 <Gekz> on a more serious note
 639 2011-09-11 03:23:35 <Gekz> what constitutes "the bitcoin discussion"
 640 2011-09-11 03:23:48 <Gekz> does this mean the forum linked to from the bitcoin.org site?
 641 2011-09-11 03:23:49 <Gekz> or what
 642 2011-09-11 03:24:25 <Gekz> because ultimately, if MagicalTux hosts a forum that links from that page and decides he's gonna be all fascist and fuck shit up for people, that link wont last long and people will migrate elsewhere
 643 2011-09-11 03:24:40 <Gekz> realistically there should be a technical forum link on the bitcoin.org page only
 644 2011-09-11 03:24:41 <MagicalTux> am I fascist ?
 645 2011-09-11 03:24:48 <Gekz> and all other discussion to be googled
 646 2011-09-11 03:25:02 <Gekz> MagicalTux: no, but it's a decision you could choose to make in the future :P
 647 2011-09-11 03:25:11 <Gekz> or your moderators
 648 2011-09-11 03:25:13 <Gekz> or your uses
 649 2011-09-11 03:25:15 <Gekz> users*
 650 2011-09-11 03:25:34 <MagicalTux> except it's not my moderators
 651 2011-09-11 03:25:46 vrs has joined
 652 2011-09-11 03:25:46 vrs has quit (Changing host)
 653 2011-09-11 03:25:46 vrs has joined
 654 2011-09-11 03:25:49 <MagicalTux> I only provide the technical part
 655 2011-09-11 03:26:12 <Gekz> I don't know the situation, I was going entirely by what was written on the link I read
 656 2011-09-11 03:26:24 <Gekz> but if you're simply hosting it, I don't see what the issue could be
 657 2011-09-11 03:26:29 <MagicalTux> which is someone else's point of view
 658 2011-09-11 03:26:54 <MagicalTux> not only I'm only hosting it, but japanese laws on discussion forums and free speech are quite strong
 659 2011-09-11 03:27:09 semb has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 660 2011-09-11 03:27:14 <MagicalTux> I think people are afraid because we decided at some point on the wiki's official list of trading sites to not list drug sites
 661 2011-09-11 03:27:51 <Gekz> I think it's reasonable to not include anything on WTO's prohibited trade list
 662 2011-09-11 03:28:07 Guest24106 has left ()
 663 2011-09-11 03:28:24 <MagicalTux> anyway the forum is a forum where people represent themselves and post under their name, while the wiki show content which is not explicitely coming from someone
 664 2011-09-11 03:28:27 <MagicalTux> it's not the same context
 665 2011-09-11 03:29:13 <shadders> MagicalTux: Can you put up an info page on the domain?  It's a really bad look just having a dead url
 666 2011-09-11 03:29:29 <twobits> lol, well I created an account  to post a reply to that link, and it says I need a rep of 5 to do so,  but how do I get rep if I cant post?
 667 2011-09-11 03:30:17 <cjdelisle> you should put up a picture of Bill Cosby and a message that the forum will be back soon to show that we have a sense of humor about it ;)
 668 2011-09-11 03:30:45 clr_ has joined
 669 2011-09-11 03:31:41 <MagicalTux> there should be the forum back with an official announcement within a few hours
 670 2011-09-11 03:32:20 <BTCTrader_> fwiw i'm confident on MagicalTux doing the right thing with the forum.
 671 2011-09-11 03:32:39 <upb> whats the problem with the forum anyways
 672 2011-09-11 03:33:25 <MagicalTux> they were showing cosby flash/coins/etc
 673 2011-09-11 03:33:55 <MagicalTux> http://i.imgur.com/HxHl6.png <- example
 674 2011-09-11 03:34:14 <BTCTrader_> upb a flash/javascript exploit
 675 2011-09-11 03:34:18 <noagendamarket> You should have to buy  a forum account with cosbycoins
 676 2011-09-11 03:34:36 <noagendamarket> mtgox should have a fake cosby exchange
 677 2011-09-11 03:34:46 <upb> ah
 678 2011-09-11 03:34:55 <noagendamarket> which converts your bitcoins to cosbies
 679 2011-09-11 03:35:05 <MagicalTux> the included javascript was also replacing all occurences of "bitcoin" with cosbycoin"
 680 2011-09-11 03:35:12 <noagendamarket> lol
 681 2011-09-11 03:35:15 <upb> clever Ö=
 682 2011-09-11 03:35:24 <shadders> Any particular reason not to just leave it like that?  Cosby is kinda cool...
 683 2011-09-11 03:35:51 <noagendamarket> Is there a page on the wiki yet ?
 684 2011-09-11 03:35:53 <BTCTrader_> MT, is there evidence the user database was compromised to the hackers?
 685 2011-09-11 03:35:55 <noagendamarket> lol
 686 2011-09-11 03:37:39 <MagicalTux> BTCTrader_: the people in charge of the forum are writing the announcements right now, you should have all your answers soon
 687 2011-09-11 03:38:05 <BTCTrader_> ok
 688 2011-09-11 03:42:22 chuck has quit (Excess Flood)
 689 2011-09-11 03:42:25 DontMindMe has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 690 2011-09-11 03:43:41 chuck has joined
 691 2011-09-11 03:43:53 <johnj__> From my experience, that means "Yes, but they're going to deal with the flood, not me"
 692 2011-09-11 03:44:05 <phantomcircuit> ?
 693 2011-09-11 03:44:16 <johnj__> the announcement
 694 2011-09-11 03:45:09 <phantomcircuit> oh
 695 2011-09-11 03:45:31 <phantomcircuit> MagicalTux, it seems unlikely that it was a minor penetration given the location of the script include
 696 2011-09-11 03:45:41 <ThomasV> it was not the first cosby attack, I remember having some popups a while ago
 697 2011-09-11 03:46:29 <jrmithdobbs> MagicalTux: so dissent on the quality of your service will be allowed there unlike your irc channel? because I find that hard to believe.
 698 2011-09-11 03:47:58 <ThomasV> dissent will be allowed to everybody who exploit the vulnerabilities
 699 2011-09-11 03:53:46 leetcharmer has joined
 700 2011-09-11 03:56:23 pointbiz has joined
 701 2011-09-11 03:58:04 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 702 2011-09-11 03:58:05 <johnj__> However, I truely hope nothing important was compromised, waiting 24+ hours to let users know they've been compromised is dirty
 703 2011-09-11 03:59:36 <cjdelisle> unless your browser is exploitable by any website you visit or you used your forum password for everything else, you have nothing to worry about no matter how bad the break was.
 704 2011-09-11 03:59:40 <jrmithdobbs> MagicalTux: no comment on the important questions, as usual, I see.
 705 2011-09-11 04:00:50 <MagicalTux> jrmithdobbs: I already replied to this
 706 2011-09-11 04:01:17 <jrmithdobbs> no you replied to a more vague general question that is related
 707 2011-09-11 04:01:26 <jrmithdobbs> not to that direct question which I notice you're now avoiding answering.
 708 2011-09-11 04:02:18 ymirhotfoot has joined
 709 2011-09-11 04:02:27 <MagicalTux> jrmithdobbs: actually, your previous message was not a question
 710 2011-09-11 04:02:39 <MagicalTux> well
 711 2011-09-11 04:02:41 <MagicalTux> if you want a reply
 712 2011-09-11 04:02:43 <MagicalTux> yes
 713 2011-09-11 04:02:45 <MagicalTux> they will be allowed
 714 2011-09-11 04:02:49 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: it was a question :P
 715 2011-09-11 04:02:58 <MagicalTux> luke-jr: yep, I'm tired
 716 2011-09-11 04:03:04 <jrmithdobbs> 22:37 < jrmithdobbs> MagicalTux: so dissent on the quality of your service will be allowed there unlike your irc channel? because I find that hard to believe.
 717 2011-09-11 04:03:09 <jrmithdobbs> sure looks like a question to me
 718 2011-09-11 04:03:11 <MagicalTux> unless they break rules defined by the moderators of the forums, on who I have no control
 719 2011-09-11 04:03:34 <MagicalTux> the bitcoin forum is independent of mtgox, we only supply hosting and some technical help
 720 2011-09-11 04:04:10 grubles has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 721 2011-09-11 04:04:11 <ymirhotfoot> Ah, but Cosby has seized bitcointalk.
 722 2011-09-11 04:04:35 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 723 2011-09-11 04:04:39 <ymirhotfoot> As was pointed out by another last evening, Cosby is funny
 724 2011-09-11 04:04:48 <ymirhotfoot> both funny and cunning.
 725 2011-09-11 04:05:24 Clipse has joined
 726 2011-09-11 04:07:13 <jrmithdobbs> ymirhotfoot: http://cosbycoin.com
 727 2011-09-11 04:07:46 <ymirhotfoot> Thanks, jrmithdobbs!
 728 2011-09-11 04:08:02 <freewil> lulz
 729 2011-09-11 04:08:37 <freewil> bitcoin at this point is like socialism
 730 2011-09-11 04:08:45 <freewil> other people's mistakes fuck you
 731 2011-09-11 04:09:41 KArmitt has quit ()
 732 2011-09-11 04:09:53 <ymirhotfoot> I understand.
 733 2011-09-11 04:10:01 mrb_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 734 2011-09-11 04:10:07 <ymirhotfoot> Satoshi is Cosby!
 735 2011-09-11 04:10:47 <copumpkin> sacosby
 736 2011-09-11 04:11:03 <ymirhotfoot> Ah, freewil, also like ah, I dislike the word, for the confusions, conflations, and lies, capitalism.
 737 2011-09-11 04:11:38 <ymirhotfoot> pumpkin^co yes, like ybsocas!
 738 2011-09-11 04:12:21 <ymirhotfoot> sacosby is subtle.
 739 2011-09-11 04:12:42 <ymirhotfoot> Two arguments: 1. the scripting part of Bitcoin
 740 2011-09-11 04:13:00 <ymirhotfoot> 2. He can reveal himself, and all the world just laughs.
 741 2011-09-11 04:13:10 <ymirhotfoot> There are further arguments.
 742 2011-09-11 04:14:31 grubles has joined
 743 2011-09-11 04:15:11 <mabus> it is a lot like socialism
 744 2011-09-11 04:15:17 <mabus> people have no fucking idea about it
 745 2011-09-11 04:15:29 <ymirhotfoot> Yes.  If you wish any cooperation is like socialism.
 746 2011-09-11 04:15:41 <ymirhotfoot> Also like capitalism, and like
 747 2011-09-11 04:15:46 <cjdelisle> wut is like socialism?
 748 2011-09-11 04:15:52 <ymirhotfoot> COSBYISM
 749 2011-09-11 04:15:59 <cjdelisle> o
 750 2011-09-11 04:16:02 <ymirhotfoot> any cooperation, if you like.
 751 2011-09-11 04:16:02 <mabus> ancient aliens
 752 2011-09-11 04:16:09 <mabus> are like socialism
 753 2011-09-11 04:16:21 <mabus> they built everything for the people
 754 2011-09-11 04:16:22 <ymirhotfoot> mabus this is an open channel
 755 2011-09-11 04:16:42 <cjdelisle> mk
 756 2011-09-11 04:16:54 <ymirhotfoot> We the Inetrenet cbal did it all for you and us,
 757 2011-09-11 04:16:56 <ymirhotfoot> the people
 758 2011-09-11 04:17:00 <ymirhotfoot> TINC
 759 2011-09-11 04:17:16 <ymirhotfoot> Internet Cabal
 760 2011-09-11 04:17:51 <freewil> a cooperation isnt socialism because its done voluntarily
 761 2011-09-11 04:18:11 <ymirhotfoot> freewil, not everything Fox News is entirely the truth
 762 2011-09-11 04:18:17 <freewil> lulz
 763 2011-09-11 04:18:17 <ymirhotfoot> fox News says
 764 2011-09-11 04:18:37 devrandom has joined
 765 2011-09-11 04:18:43 <cjdelisle> How many kilocalories of energy does it take to turn a few hundred tons of concrete into an upside down mushroom cloud of dust?
 766 2011-09-11 04:18:46 <freewil> i dont watch corporate media
 767 2011-09-11 04:18:59 <ymirhotfoot> Mr. Cosby, why did you spend years inventing Bitcoin?
 768 2011-09-11 04:19:11 <ymirhotfoot> Mr Cosby answers: For the lulz.
 769 2011-09-11 04:20:03 <ymirhotfoot> Ah, freewil, good.
 770 2011-09-11 04:20:54 <freewil> its funny when you have to watch iranian or russian state tv to get truth
 771 2011-09-11 04:21:18 <cjdelisle> happy boxcutters day btw
 772 2011-09-11 04:21:24 <phantomcircuit> cjdelisle, a bakers dozen of deep friend twinkies worth
 773 2011-09-11 04:21:51 <cjdelisle> deep fried twinkies must be worth a lot of energy
 774 2011-09-11 04:22:25 <freewil> twinkiecoins could be very valuable in the event of a nuclear accident
 775 2011-09-11 04:22:51 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 776 2011-09-11 04:24:30 <cjdelisle> we were talking earlier about using bitcoin for property title transfer
 777 2011-09-11 04:25:05 <freewil> any kind of contract i think
 778 2011-09-11 04:25:49 <freewil> cjdelisle, is it possible to embed a contract or contract hash in a block header?
 779 2011-09-11 04:25:57 <cjdelisle> like you pay 1 satoshi to an address which has 0 money and you say "when *this* satoshi is paid back to me, it is redeamable for a gram of gold or a gox dollar or whatever"
 780 2011-09-11 04:26:11 skeledrew has joined
 781 2011-09-11 04:26:49 <freewil> interesting
 782 2011-09-11 04:26:59 <cjdelisle> if more money is put into that address to confuse things, you just honer the first payment out of that address as having moved the "golden satoshi"
 783 2011-09-11 04:29:13 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r9d84e915600c cgminer/configure.ac: Properly substitute DLOPEN flags to build with ADL support when -ldl is needed and not when opencl is not found.
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 785 2011-09-11 04:33:21 <pointbiz> did something happen to bitbills?
 786 2011-09-11 04:34:02 <cjdelisle> idk but I wouldn't trust them since the people who make them know the private key
 787 2011-09-11 04:34:16 <cjdelisle> also they would get pwnd by an mri
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 790 2011-09-11 04:35:22 <pointbiz> true
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 794 2011-09-11 04:41:07 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: no, the people who make them don't know the private key.
 795 2011-09-11 04:41:16 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: and IIRC they've been tested against MRI
 796 2011-09-11 04:41:20 <gmaxwell> I know someone with access to MRI time, if someone wanted to try.. though I expect xray would work better.
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 799 2011-09-11 04:41:49 <cjdelisle> they *knew* the private key and they promise that they forgot it...
 800 2011-09-11 04:42:00 <ymirhotfoot> Bitcoin, fraudulent Mason money, is
 801 2011-09-11 04:42:18 <ymirhotfoot> in its own self proof against any dishonesty.
 802 2011-09-11 04:42:52 <ymirhotfoot> Because the bitbill maker knows all the private keys,
 803 2011-09-11 04:43:07 <ymirhotfoot> that demonstartes the powerful moral effect of Bitcoin.
 804 2011-09-11 04:43:24 <ymirhotfoot> Because the bitbill maker uses Bitcoin, it is morally impossible
 805 2011-09-11 04:43:33 <ymirhotfoot> for the maker to spend the bitcoins.
 806 2011-09-11 04:43:58 <ymirhotfoot> I meant to say: Bitcoin, unlike fraudulent Mason money, is
 807 2011-09-11 04:44:35 <ymirhotfoot> Another maker of Bitcoin ATMs, if I have understood his plan of business,
 808 2011-09-11 04:44:51 <cjdelisle> typofail, I have been doing that a lot myself lately
 809 2011-09-11 04:45:10 <ymirhotfoot> would also know the private keys in the Bitcoin wallet the ATM makes for you
 810 2011-09-11 04:45:22 <ymirhotfoot> when you put a US twenty dollar bill in.
 811 2011-09-11 04:46:00 <ymirhotfoot> But because Bitcoin is inherently proof against fraud, the ATM business will never those bitcoins.
 812 2011-09-11 04:46:09 <ymirhotfoot> THAT IS HOW STRONG BITCOIN IS.
 813 2011-09-11 04:46:24 <ymirhotfoot> never spend those bitcoins, I meant.
 814 2011-09-11 04:46:40 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: xray fails to break bitbills
 815 2011-09-11 04:47:04 <pointbiz> yeah, bitbills has something on their site that says xrays dont break it
 816 2011-09-11 04:47:13 <luke-jr> mine has been xrayed
 817 2011-09-11 04:47:20 <ymirhotfoot> cjdelisle: they *knew* the private key and they promise that they forget it, . Yes exactly.  Bitcoins, by their very being, force straight dealing.
 818 2011-09-11 04:48:34 <ymirhotfoot> This central fact is not yet understood,
 819 2011-09-11 04:48:43 <ymirhotfoot> except by True Bitcoiners.
 820 2011-09-11 04:48:57 <theymos> The forum is back up now.
 821 2011-09-11 04:49:06 <ymirhotfoot> Thanks theymos!
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 823 2011-09-11 04:49:36 <pointbiz> so if they *knew* the private key... can you trust they've forgotten if the money isn't spent after a certain time?
 824 2011-09-11 04:49:48 <theymos> Thanks to MagicalTux for doing most of the investigation and hosting the forum.
 825 2011-09-11 04:53:22 <pointbiz> yeah on the forum!! good work tux
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 827 2011-09-11 04:56:05 <cjdelisle> ;;later tell BlueMatt re b4ada906c03111404c29b115ab37afbad92f4cf1 upgrading libdb is going to upgrade wallets so they are unreadable by older versions, was that intentional?
 828 2011-09-11 04:56:05 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
 829 2011-09-11 04:56:26 <jrmithdobbs> theymos: so it was exactly what we discussed last night :(
 830 2011-09-11 04:56:31 leetcharmer has joined
 831 2011-09-11 04:56:34 <jrmithdobbs> theymos: with more details on which mod it was
 832 2011-09-11 04:56:46 <jrmithdobbs> theymos: please tell me the doc root isn't writable any more.
 833 2011-09-11 04:57:23 <theymos> jrmithdobbs: It wasn't a mod. That flash thing was a total rumor.
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 835 2011-09-11 04:58:10 <jrmithdobbs> theymos: ? we weren't talking about flash
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 840 2011-09-11 05:03:10 <MagicalTux> jrmithdobbs: the problem came from a core feature of SMF
 841 2011-09-11 05:03:30 <MagicalTux> I'm trying to get in touch with SMF so they can fix that
 842 2011-09-11 05:03:41 <MagicalTux> before it's disclosed
 843 2011-09-11 05:07:12 BurtyBB has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 844 2011-09-11 05:09:11 <noagendamarket> MagicalTux in the forum profile section where you can choose to add a pic from an actor there is no bill cosby one
 845 2011-09-11 05:09:12 <noagendamarket> lol
 846 2011-09-11 05:11:24 BurtyB has joined
 847 2011-09-11 05:11:27 <MagicalTux> noagendamarket: tell this to theymos
 848 2011-09-11 05:11:47 <MagicalTux> I used the "Report a security issue with Simple Machines software" to let SMF know about the problem
 849 2011-09-11 05:11:52 <noagendamarket> theymos^^^
 850 2011-09-11 05:12:08 <theymos> Find me a good image and I'll add it.
 851 2011-09-11 05:12:18 * noagendamarket sees that Bil Cosby just joined the forum
 852 2011-09-11 05:12:29 <noagendamarket> :p
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 854 2011-09-11 05:14:44 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: is there any evidence the attacker may have intercepted cleartext passwords as people logged in?
 855 2011-09-11 05:14:54 <MagicalTux> luke-jr: none
 856 2011-09-11 05:14:59 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: forum thread suggests SMF fixed the bug a long time ago FYI
 857 2011-09-11 05:15:00 <MagicalTux> there was no such mod in the code
 858 2011-09-11 05:15:14 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: no relevant timestamps recent?
 859 2011-09-11 05:15:14 <MagicalTux> luke-jr: I confirm the bug is found in SMF 1.1.14 vanilla
 860 2011-09-11 05:15:24 <MagicalTux> I checked all recently modified php files
 861 2011-09-11 05:15:27 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: the forum thread suggests 1.1 is obsolete
 862 2011-09-11 05:15:35 <MagicalTux> and did a diff between the installed smf adn a vanilla smf
 863 2011-09-11 05:15:43 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: were any of the recently modified files relevant to login?
 864 2011-09-11 05:15:46 <MagicalTux> yep, 1.1 is likely obsolete, however it's still supported for security
 865 2011-09-11 05:15:48 <luke-jr> ie, could they have changed it back?
 866 2011-09-11 05:15:52 <MagicalTux> none
 867 2011-09-11 05:16:08 <luke-jr> why is SHA-1 with a unique (username) salt so bad?
 868 2011-09-11 05:16:49 <MagicalTux> I cannot however be 100% sure as there is a php function to change the timestamp of a file
 869 2011-09-11 05:16:53 <MagicalTux> to an arbitrary value
 870 2011-09-11 05:17:13 <theymos> SMF 1.1.14 is officially supported by SMF.
 871 2011-09-11 05:22:51 <Diablo-D3> - Less than 9 characters, lowercase+uppercase+numbers
 872 2011-09-11 05:22:54 <Diablo-D3> lol
 873 2011-09-11 05:23:00 <Diablo-D3> I'll never has to change my password at that rate
 874 2011-09-11 05:23:42 <Diablo-D3> theymos: btw, captaineemo is right
 875 2011-09-11 05:23:45 <BTCTrader_> in this day and age any password < 15 characters is easily cracked
 876 2011-09-11 05:23:51 <Diablo-D3> why the fuck are you using such an ancient SMF branch
 877 2011-09-11 05:24:01 <theymos> Upgrading would be difficult.
 878 2011-09-11 05:24:07 <Diablo-D3> BTCTrader_: shit dude, for any basic hash type, anything below 32 has already been rainbow tabled
 879 2011-09-11 05:24:33 <copumpkin> BTCTrader_: depends on the alphabet
 880 2011-09-11 05:24:39 <BTCTrader_> nods
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 882 2011-09-11 05:24:45 <copumpkin> for any reasonably large alphabet
 883 2011-09-11 05:24:46 <luke-jr> you can't rainbow-table salted hashes
 884 2011-09-11 05:24:50 <theymos> BTCTrader: I assumed in those calculations that the attacker could do 10 trillion hashes per second, which I think is reasonable. Passwords are salted, so rainbow tables can't be easily used.
 885 2011-09-11 05:24:53 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: HAHAHAHAHAHAH
 886 2011-09-11 05:24:55 <Diablo-D3> hahahahahaha
 887 2011-09-11 05:24:55 <copumpkin> you can't even dream of cracking it
 888 2011-09-11 05:24:56 <Diablo-D3> oh wow
 889 2011-09-11 05:24:59 <Diablo-D3> I lol'd
 890 2011-09-11 05:25:24 <BTCTrader_> the passwords i care about are > 30 :D
 891 2011-09-11 05:25:31 <copumpkin> BTCTrader_: the growth is exponential (and a large base) for every additional character
 892 2011-09-11 05:25:48 <copumpkin> even the entire bitcoin network couldn't crack an alphanum+10 symbols of 15 characters
 893 2011-09-11 05:25:52 <copumpkin> in any reasonable amount of time
 894 2011-09-11 05:26:00 <BTCTrader_> nods
 895 2011-09-11 05:26:26 <BTCTrader_> but who uses "alphanum+10 symbols of 15 characters"
 896 2011-09-11 05:26:29 <copumpkin> just felt like making that point :P I've heard a lot of bitcoiners say things like "meh, we hash all the time with our mining rigs. we can crack all passwords"
 897 2011-09-11 05:26:41 <Diablo-D3> copumpkin: of what?
 898 2011-09-11 05:26:42 <copumpkin> BTCTrader_: I have upper,lower,numbers,and symbols
 899 2011-09-11 05:26:55 <copumpkin> Diablo-D3: of what?
 900 2011-09-11 05:27:09 <Diablo-D3> copumpkin: I can crack any simple md5 or sha256 in very short time.
 901 2011-09-11 05:27:12 <Diablo-D3> salt or not.
 902 2011-09-11 05:27:17 <copumpkin> I'm talking about the alphabet
 903 2011-09-11 05:27:27 <Diablo-D3> I think you misunderstood
 904 2011-09-11 05:27:37 <Diablo-D3> you can put unicode in there, Im still raping you.
 905 2011-09-11 05:27:48 <copumpkin> show me
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 907 2011-09-11 05:27:59 <copumpkin> 62^15
 908 2011-09-11 05:29:02 <copumpkin> you must do a lot of hashes per second
 909 2011-09-11 05:29:09 <BTCTrader_> are you suggesting the forum should basically add two factor authentication?
 910 2011-09-11 05:29:21 <copumpkin> I'm saying you want a strengthened hash function
 911 2011-09-11 05:29:21 <Diablo-D3> BTCTrader_: not at all
 912 2011-09-11 05:29:25 <copumpkin> pbkdf2
 913 2011-09-11 05:29:26 <copumpkin> or crypt
 914 2011-09-11 05:29:30 <Diablo-D3> the forum should stop leaking the goddamned db
 915 2011-09-11 05:29:36 <copumpkin> that too :)
 916 2011-09-11 05:29:37 <BTCTrader_> i wouldnt be opposed to OTP
 917 2011-09-11 05:30:05 <BTCTrader_> well, pft. yea tell that to any LAMP forum package
 918 2011-09-11 05:30:46 <Diablo-D3> pkdf2 with sha256 with a 128 bit high entropy salt ran for 1m+ variable number of runs works for me
 919 2011-09-11 05:30:51 <Diablo-D3> anything less is not secure
 920 2011-09-11 05:31:25 <BTCTrader_> lol.  Diablo-D3 you are a paranoid dude.  i like you already.
 921 2011-09-11 05:31:57 <Diablo-D3> er, I meant sha512
 922 2011-09-11 05:32:07 <BTCTrader_> lol
 923 2011-09-11 05:32:12 <Diablo-D3> although a lot of people are suggesting 256 or greater high entropy salts now
 924 2011-09-11 05:33:06 MrTiggrZzzzzz is now known as MrTiggr
 925 2011-09-11 05:33:29 <copumpkin> :)
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 927 2011-09-11 05:39:29 <k9quaint> I just use 8 asterisks as my password, no hacker would ever suspect it!
 928 2011-09-11 05:40:27 <BTCTrader_> k9quaint, let me introduce you to http://hashcat.net no hacker needs to suspect it
 929 2011-09-11 05:41:25 <k9quaint> those programs never check for asterisks!
 930 2011-09-11 05:41:44 <copumpkin> lol
 931 2011-09-11 05:44:22 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * rd3ac27940aa4 cgminer/NEWS: Update NEWS.
 932 2011-09-11 05:44:24 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r84a3ee45fd54 cgminer/configure.ac: Bump version to 2.0.2.
 933 2011-09-11 05:45:14 <theymos> What do you guys think of this email that I will send to all forum users? See any errors? http://pastebin.com/H4aAhr3d
 934 2011-09-11 05:48:29 <noagendamarket> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Forums#General_Bitcoin_Discussion   Can the forum lin k on bitcoin.org be changed to that ?
 935 2011-09-11 05:49:24 <noagendamarket> "unnoficial bitcoin forum" is rather misleading
 936 2011-09-11 05:49:47 <noagendamarket> "Bitcoin Discussion" linking to the wiki forum page is much better
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 949 2011-09-11 06:38:45 <CIA-101> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * ra29054a / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Improve performance until AMD fixes CPU use bug - http://git.io/trUj-Q
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 951 2011-09-11 06:45:16 <CIA-101> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r7043ae8 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Cut network failure sleep in half - http://git.io/X45_tA
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 966 2011-09-11 07:50:41 <deego`> Last 2-3 days, the network seems very fragmented (I know I don't know what that means.) Most of my attempts to send stay at 0 confirmations for hours. Anyone know if the "network is fragmented?"
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 974 2011-09-11 08:09:59 <lfm> deego how many connections do you have?
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 982 2011-09-11 08:25:02 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,mtgox
 983 2011-09-11 08:25:03 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":5.26052,"low":4.6001,"avg":4.896985223,"vwap":4.89283945,"vol":30883,"last":4.90405,"buy":4.90405,"sell":4.91697}}
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1003 2011-09-11 09:19:24 <ThomasV> apparently, I still have deadlocks in the deadlock free version
1004 2011-09-11 09:23:17 wboy1 has joined
1005 2011-09-11 09:24:18 <wboy1>  Hi guys,anyone is here? would love if you check out our new designed wallet at: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Safebit/285842344765241#!/pages/Safebit/285842344765241 ,http://www.safeb.it would love for your feedbacks!
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1008 2011-09-11 09:36:11 <Eliel> wboy1: from the screenshots, looks like it's got some nice ideas in it.
1009 2011-09-11 09:37:49 <wboy1> thanks,we are about to release early version later on today:)
1010 2011-09-11 09:41:36 <marf_away> i want a block
1011 2011-09-11 09:41:38 <marf_away> now
1012 2011-09-11 09:41:40 <marf_away> !!!
1013 2011-09-11 09:41:41 <marf_away> ;D
1014 2011-09-11 09:41:52 TiagoTiago has quit (Quit: "need sleep --____-- ")
1015 2011-09-11 09:42:43 <tcatm> marf_away: just wait 10 minutes and the network will send you a new one :)
1016 2011-09-11 09:42:53 <Graet> lol
1017 2011-09-11 09:43:04 <marf_away> i did wait for 70 minits
1018 2011-09-11 09:43:19 <Graet> i'm looking as hard as i can ;)
1019 2011-09-11 09:43:50 <marf_away> try glasses
1020 2011-09-11 09:43:59 <marf_away> just 4 blocks last 2 h
1021 2011-09-11 09:44:10 <Graet> i have glasses, my gpus do better job tho
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1025 2011-09-11 10:14:28 <makomk> Wow, that's a nasty *facepalm* security vulnerability in vanilla SMF, and no mistake.
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1032 2011-09-11 10:35:45 <tcatm> makomk: ?
1033 2011-09-11 10:36:16 <makomk> tcatm: re. the security hole bitcointalk.org got hacked through.
1034 2011-09-11 10:44:10 <ThomasV> is there someone here who knows how to use pywallet ?
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1051 2011-09-11 11:37:16 <xelister> makomk: is there url describing the vuln?
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1054 2011-09-11 11:38:34 <makomk> xelister: nope, other than the description in Theymos's post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=42572.0
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1078 2011-09-11 12:48:19 <Raccoon`> 9/11 speech live - http://www.ustream.tv/news
1079 2011-09-11 12:49:24 <cjdelisle> all the 9 year olds are like WTF are you old farts all going on about?!
1080 2011-09-11 12:54:29 <lfm> I think even 9 year olds have seen the film of the towers falling
1081 2011-09-11 12:55:10 <cjdelisle> and they probably think we (you) are still old and care about shit that doesn't matter
1082 2011-09-11 12:55:57 <lfm> maybe if they are brain damaged 9 year olds
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1084 2011-09-11 12:58:02 <cjdelisle> I was there at perl harbor and I saw it all, it was horrible there were planes everywhere, hey, where are you going, this is really important, you are the most disrespectfull grandson....
1085 2011-09-11 12:58:31 <lfm> I suspect even 9 year olds in the Amazon jungle can understand why people care about 9/11
1086 2011-09-11 13:00:27 <cjdelisle> every 2 and a half days, 3000 people die of smoking cigaretts, where's their memorial?
1087 2011-09-11 13:01:27 <lfm> their memorial is "why didn't they stop smoking?"
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1107 2011-09-11 13:37:10 <deego> lfm: 8
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1128 2011-09-11 14:16:53 <manveru> 30000 people died from the tsnuami in japan, are we all living on hills yet?
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1162 2011-09-11 15:35:33 <Mad7Scientist> When bitcoin gets hung up for a while finding blocks or on a slow system the miners get disconnected and don't reconnect again until I restart bitcoin
1163 2011-09-11 15:35:48 <Mad7Scientist> I mean getting blocks
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1168 2011-09-11 15:58:02 <bstation> hi! someone here who will testride my pool? it is currently on testnet and i need load from up to 10 gpu for now. someone who is willing to play around with the front-end is welcome, too!
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1171 2011-09-11 16:04:55 <bstation> if you like to support me on my testnet-approval, please sign up to & use https://bitcoin-station.com
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1183 2011-09-11 16:37:35 <jgarzik> tcatm: bitcoinwatch's last-price and high/low seem to disagree with the numbers seen when logging into mtgox.com
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1187 2011-09-11 16:43:39 <lfm> ;;ticker
1188 2011-09-11 16:43:40 <gribble> Best bid: 5.90001, Best ask: 6.0911, Bid-ask spread: 0.19109, Last trade: 6.13984, 24 hour volume: 89633, 24 hour low: 4, 24 hour high: 12.50028
1189 2011-09-11 16:44:15 <lfm> wow, someone is buying
1190 2011-09-11 16:44:57 <manveru> bstation: blue text with black links is quite... confusing
1191 2011-09-11 16:45:11 <lfm> I cant get to bitcoincharts at all
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1193 2011-09-11 16:46:12 <manveru> bstation: why do you limit passwords to alphanumeric?
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1195 2011-09-11 16:46:51 <lfm> manveru: harder to inject spq?
1196 2011-09-11 16:46:58 <lfm> sql
1197 2011-09-11 16:47:06 <manveru> uh
1198 2011-09-11 16:47:13 <manveru> why would he store the passwords in plaintext?
1199 2011-09-11 16:47:45 <lfm> whats that got to do with it? but I dont know anything about it really
1200 2011-09-11 16:47:46 <manveru> that's what bcrypt is for
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1203 2011-09-11 16:49:40 <lfm> ;;ticker --high
1204 2011-09-11 16:49:41 <gribble> 12.50028
1205 2011-09-11 16:49:54 <lfm> is that just a glitch or something real I wonder?
1206 2011-09-11 16:50:14 <bstation> hehe. no. the limitation is just a relic. simply an old validator
1207 2011-09-11 16:50:32 <xelister> lfm: it was glitch caused by mtgox canceling some trades&accounts as in above 30 lines backlog
1208 2011-09-11 16:50:41 <xelister> on #mtgox
1209 2011-09-11 16:50:52 <xelister> he suspects people to be hackers so he cancels they orders
1210 2011-09-11 16:50:55 <Joric> '-0.446846081122 % estimated difficulty change this period' oh yes
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1212 2011-09-11 16:54:28 <lfm> ;;bc,estimate
1213 2011-09-11 16:54:29 <gribble> 1769830.56639672
1214 2011-09-11 16:54:41 <lfm> ;;bc,spotestimate
1215 2011-09-11 16:54:45 <gribble> 1717912.35344
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1217 2011-09-11 16:55:23 <iddo> what is bc,spotestimate ?
1218 2011-09-11 16:55:52 <lfm> I feel like the man with two clocks who never knows what time it is any more. two estimates just make it less certain! :-)
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1220 2011-09-11 16:56:22 <lfm> iddo spot est is based on last 3 days instead of since last diff change
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1223 2011-09-11 16:58:00 <iddo> hmm
1224 2011-09-11 16:58:02 <lfm> iddo mainly cuz regular est goes wild right after diff change
1225 2011-09-11 16:58:53 <iddo> regular est does average of 3 weeks?
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1229 2011-09-11 16:59:58 <iddo> ah i see, it does average since last difficulty change
1230 2011-09-11 17:00:16 <iddo> and spot est always does 3 days average
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1232 2011-09-11 17:01:57 <iddo> so spot is probably more accurate now too, even though the real difficulty change will be according to regular est?
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1234 2011-09-11 17:03:34 <lfm> iddo right
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1236 2011-09-11 17:06:13 <iddo> how to translate difficulty to terahash/s ?
1237 2011-09-11 17:06:47 <lfm> to translate diff to hash per sec multiply by 2^32 then divide by 600
1238 2011-09-11 17:07:19 <lfm> terahash / s is then div 1e12?
1239 2011-09-11 17:07:55 <lfm> ;;calc [bc,diff] * (2^32) / 600 / 1e12
1240 2011-09-11 17:07:57 <gribble> ((1,777,774.4820015 * (2^32)) / 600) / 1e12 = 12.7258054
1241 2011-09-11 17:08:11 <iddo> nice
1242 2011-09-11 17:08:11 <imsaguy> I thought hash/s were base 10?
1243 2011-09-11 17:08:32 <lfm> imsaguy its all base 10, huh?
1244 2011-09-11 17:08:48 <imsaguy> oh, nm, you were figuring in diff
1245 2011-09-11 17:08:51 <imsaguy> miss that bit
1246 2011-09-11 17:08:58 <imsaguy> missed*
1247 2011-09-11 17:09:35 <lfm> the 600 is seconds per 10 min nominal block time
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1249 2011-09-11 17:12:57 <lfm> can use :
1250 2011-09-11 17:13:07 <lfm> ;;calc [bc,spotestimate] * (2^32) / 600 / 1e12
1251 2011-09-11 17:13:08 <gribble> ((1,717,912.35344 * (2^32)) / 600) / 1e12 = 12.2972956
1252 2011-09-11 17:13:14 <lfm> instead if you prefer
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1300 2011-09-11 18:42:24 <ThomasV> gavinandresen: hi, are you sure there are no more deadlocks ?
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1305 2011-09-11 18:57:45 <jgarzik> ThomasV: no one is ever -sure-
1306 2011-09-11 18:58:20 <jgarzik> ThomasV: good engineers avoid phrases like "always" and "never", preferring to use them only when there is provable, mathematic certainty
1307 2011-09-11 18:58:45 <jgarzik> ThomasV: the deadlock checking is very good, but we rely on paths being exercised
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1309 2011-09-11 19:01:56 <ThomasV> jgarzik: I am not "sure" that I have a rpc deadlock but it looks like one
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1362 2011-09-11 20:42:35 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r1addb3b / lib/blockchain.js : Better log message for database connecting. - http://git.io/aLDzzw
1363 2011-09-11 20:42:35 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r7fbc610 / daemon/welcome.js : Updated launch message. Removed ASCII art. - http://git.io/NxonTA
1364 2011-09-11 20:42:35 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * rd23a1c0 / lib/checkpoints.js : Add latest checkpoint and change API for future inclusion of other networks. - http://git.io/j8Pd_w
1365 2011-09-11 20:42:35 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * reac460f / (lib/blockchain.js lib/node.js lib/settings.js): Ignore incoming memory transactions while block chain is still small. - http://git.io/-XgbNA
1366 2011-09-11 20:42:36 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * rd8ff570 / .npmignore : Need to npmignore my local settings file, derp. See #31. - http://git.io/Z9PJCg
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1375 2011-09-11 20:59:27 <BlueMatt> cjdelisle: re "upgrading libdb is going to upgrade wallets so they are unreadable by older versions, was that intentional?" yes, it was
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1445 2011-09-11 23:16:36 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * rd151719 / daemon/init.js : Fixed incorrect settings filename in help message. - http://git.io/sgoA1w
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