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4 2011-09-12 00:04:42 <theymos> Forum password alert emails have all been sent now. Did you all receive one?
5 2011-09-12 00:04:52 <cacheson> theymos: yes
6 2011-09-12 00:06:46 <Diablo-D3> maybe
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20 2011-09-12 00:37:09 <pointbiz> yes
21 2011-09-12 00:37:28 <diki> yup
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25 2011-09-12 00:45:13 <pointbiz> ANN bitaddress.org
26 2011-09-12 00:45:16 <pointbiz> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=43496.new#new
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28 2011-09-12 00:46:01 <pointbiz> BOUNTY of 0.1 BTC... please post on the forum if you collect the bounty
29 2011-09-12 00:49:29 <cjdelisle> that's a cool idea, thanks for putting that together
30 2011-09-12 00:49:45 <jrmithdobbs> what's the bounty for exactly? knowing how to apply the importwallet patch?
31 2011-09-12 00:50:26 <cjdelisle> can you import a single key into a wallet?
32 2011-09-12 00:50:32 <jrmithdobbs> yes
33 2011-09-12 00:50:47 <cjdelisle> is it like in the gui and easy to use?
34 2011-09-12 00:51:01 <jrmithdobbs> no
35 2011-09-12 00:51:10 <jrmithdobbs> it was supposed to be in .4
36 2011-09-12 00:51:19 <cjdelisle> IMO that's a really important feature which should make the mainline
37 2011-09-12 00:51:20 <jrmithdobbs> but gavin decided it wasn't a priority feature
38 2011-09-12 00:51:32 <jrmithdobbs> worth waiting for
39 2011-09-12 00:52:08 <cjdelisle> [ Paste private key here ] [ ] check if this key is untrusted and the money should be transferred from it
40 2011-09-12 00:52:25 <cjdelisle> also export wallet really needs to make the mainline
41 2011-09-12 00:52:48 <cjdelisle> having all of your money in a berkleydb file is a scary user experience.
42 2011-09-12 00:53:19 <cjdelisle> When I moved my money out of gox into my bitcoin engine, my first thought was "how can I get the key to that"
43 2011-09-12 00:53:35 <cjdelisle> I wanted something I could write on paper and know that I had access to it.
44 2011-09-12 00:54:10 <pointbiz> the bounty is just to verify that the JavaScript outputs proper bitcoin addresses and correct private keys
45 2011-09-12 00:54:50 <pointbiz> I'm not running the patched bitcoin with the import feature
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49 2011-09-12 00:55:13 <cjdelisle> ahh I see
50 2011-09-12 00:55:28 <cjdelisle> me neither
51 2011-09-12 00:56:27 <pointbiz> cjdelisle: thanks for the props
52 2011-09-12 00:57:22 <pointbiz> there is a level of comfort being able to see your private key outside of the berkeley DB. something you can safely store in truecrypt etc.
53 2011-09-12 00:57:40 karnac has joined
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55 2011-09-12 00:58:06 <cjdelisle> exactly
56 2011-09-12 00:58:23 <cjdelisle> that's why import/export are a pretty high priority IMO
57 2011-09-12 00:58:41 <pointbiz> I agree, I'm patiently waiting for it too
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61 2011-09-12 00:59:47 <cjdelisle> I would be willing to help make it a reality but I am not very good with the gui end.
62 2011-09-12 01:00:00 <pointbiz> I'm hoping someone else in the community with more cred than me can review the code and provide a signature of the hash...
63 2011-09-12 01:00:04 <cjdelisle> I guess it should be patched against the QT branch
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65 2011-09-12 01:00:15 <cjdelisle> oh I see
66 2011-09-12 01:00:57 <cjdelisle> unfortunately that won't do a lot of good since with javascript you have to trust the website which provides it each time
67 2011-09-12 01:01:29 <cjdelisle> if that could be turned into a gm script or *phone app then it would be different
68 2011-09-12 01:01:33 <pointbiz> that's why all the javascript is inline... so you can download the file and verify the SHA1
69 2011-09-12 01:01:57 <cjdelisle> run it from your desktop.. I suppose that makes sense
70 2011-09-12 01:02:50 <SomeoneWeird> pointbiz, link?
71 2011-09-12 01:02:55 <pointbiz> depending on a person's paranoia level
72 2011-09-12 01:04:04 <cjdelisle> http://www.bitaddress.org/bitaddress.org-v0.1-SHA1-f40e706490f3eb2be56c31ddbf4c8646cd51ef40.html
73 2011-09-12 01:04:19 <cjdelisle> well I don't like to advocate things which involve trust
74 2011-09-12 01:05:02 <cjdelisle> I mean sure you're good for it and you're not going to bate and switch, but if people start going down that path, then what? another mybitcoin?
75 2011-09-12 01:05:08 <pointbiz> good advise
76 2011-09-12 01:05:34 <SomeoneWeird> mmm
77 2011-09-12 01:05:38 <cjdelisle> That's why I don't like the bitbills, I would rather trust a process than a person
78 2011-09-12 01:05:49 <SomeoneWeird> yep
79 2011-09-12 01:06:00 <cjdelisle> SomeoneWeird you can download it to your desktop *everything* (even the logo) is in that html file
80 2011-09-12 01:06:18 <SomeoneWeird> ohk
81 2011-09-12 01:06:26 <pointbiz> im hoping others can sign the hash to add trust
82 2011-09-12 01:06:28 <SomeoneWeird> seems like a good idea
83 2011-09-12 01:07:08 <SomeoneWeird> i would but i just looked at that js and was like 0.o
84 2011-09-12 01:07:21 <pointbiz> and it's safest if you download and review the js personally
85 2011-09-12 01:07:38 <pointbiz> lol
86 2011-09-12 01:08:04 zapnap has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
87 2011-09-12 01:08:33 <SomeoneWeird> :p
88 2011-09-12 01:10:50 <cjdelisle> that's the bitch about the web, you secure the connection, not sign the content
89 2011-09-12 01:11:21 zapnap has joined
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91 2011-09-12 01:15:47 <SomeoneWeird> yes you need a ssl cert pointbiz
92 2011-09-12 01:15:52 <SomeoneWeird> at least
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95 2011-09-12 01:20:12 <b4epoche> if you run OSX you can use my app for getting QR codes for your keys
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101 2011-09-12 01:22:22 <luke-jr> anyone know about the recent bitcoind exploit?
102 2011-09-12 01:22:33 <xelister> luke-jr: which exploit?
103 2011-09-12 01:22:52 <SomeoneWeird> orly?
104 2011-09-12 01:22:56 <luke-jr> xelister: it seems someone has figured out a way to crash bitcoind 0.3.23 at least
105 2011-09-12 01:23:00 <SomeoneWeird> the one that artz used?
106 2011-09-12 01:26:02 <luke-jr> isn't artz's just block-chain related?
107 2011-09-12 01:26:30 <SomeoneWeird> probably
108 2011-09-12 01:26:37 <Disposition> then some client which ran on vps froze, but yes it's block chain related
109 2011-09-12 01:26:51 <Disposition> though it'd cost a lot of money for it to run it on bitcoin network due to transaction fees
110 2011-09-12 01:27:06 <Disposition> it only worked on solidcoin.
111 2011-09-12 01:27:25 <Disposition> though we did have a decent amount of large transactions today( 50k+)
112 2011-09-12 01:28:03 <luke-jr> unrelated then
113 2011-09-12 01:28:32 <Disposition> yar.
114 2011-09-12 01:28:38 <Disposition> if anyone is curious http://blockexplorer.com/block/00000000000007fe3e6060ec0c6ddb6790c77a8dc06eea4575a2408eebbf07d0
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118 2011-09-12 01:34:04 <pointbiz> re: bitaddress.org theoretically if you trust the addresses generated are good and do not destroy coins then to audit the code you have downloaded you only have to check the JavaScript does not make an ajax call
119 2011-09-12 01:34:07 <Joric> pointbiz, fuck someone already managed to transfer funds while i was downloading blockchain
120 2011-09-12 01:34:12 <Joric> http://blockexplorer.com/address/19ePdrxmtVCdRMZrJzCX3gf6fK6juu9yFa
121 2011-09-12 01:34:22 <Joric> pointbiz, also, http://bitcointools.appspot.com
122 2011-09-12 01:34:50 brunner has joined
123 2011-09-12 01:34:56 <Joric> i should add an ability to make rapid transfers from the site
124 2011-09-12 01:35:21 luke-jr has quit (Excess Flood)
125 2011-09-12 01:35:29 <Joric> downloading wallet.dat is not fast enough
126 2011-09-12 01:35:39 luke-jr has joined
127 2011-09-12 01:35:40 <pointbiz> :)
128 2011-09-12 01:36:08 <Joric> pointbiz, your address https://bitcointools.appspot.com/?k=3BF44F939A73052E56FC1B946A080E30B46FFD49835FD59ACDAA5ACFB15D11D2
129 2011-09-12 01:37:54 <Joric> i wouldn't even try to catch other 0.05 block downloading takes ages
130 2011-09-12 01:38:55 <Joric> like, 300 blocks in 10 minutes
131 2011-09-12 01:38:56 surikator has quit (Quit: Scientific discovery is just maximal compression of strings. Nothing more, nothing less.)
132 2011-09-12 01:39:03 SomeoneWeird_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
133 2011-09-12 01:39:06 <Joric> that's the speed i have now, with 16 connections
134 2011-09-12 01:40:49 <Joric> with all that, the disk activity is really crazy
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143 2011-09-12 01:44:40 <SomeoneWeird> stupid internetz
144 2011-09-12 01:45:04 <Joric> i have no idea how to download blocks on GAE :) probably take json ones from the blockexplorer
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147 2011-09-12 01:47:55 <Joric> it wouldn't be possible to broadcast packet without tcp sockets anyway
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151 2011-09-12 01:53:49 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Michael Bemmerl master * rc414942 / locale/de/LC_MESSAGES/bitcoin.po : Updated German translation - http://git.io/7HikMw
152 2011-09-12 01:53:49 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * r38fd861 / locale/de/LC_MESSAGES/bitcoin.po :
153 2011-09-12 01:53:49 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Merge pull request #511 from mibe/translation-de
154 2011-09-12 01:53:49 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Updated German translation - http://git.io/LK8tpg
155 2011-09-12 01:53:58 BlueMatt has joined
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157 2011-09-12 02:01:00 <Joric> hey BlueMatt
158 2011-09-12 02:01:24 <BlueMatt> hi Joric
159 2011-09-12 02:01:57 <Joric> BlueMatt is it possible to send btc if you don't have a blockchain? theoretically?
160 2011-09-12 02:02:11 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: know anything about the recent exploit?
161 2011-09-12 02:02:26 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: bitcoin exploit?
162 2011-09-12 02:02:34 <BlueMatt> or forums?
163 2011-09-12 02:02:35 <SomeoneWeird> afaik yes Joric
164 2011-09-12 02:02:37 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: bitcoind
165 2011-09-12 02:02:46 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I wasnt informed...
166 2011-09-12 02:02:47 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: for the last few days, it's been crashing a lot
167 2011-09-12 02:02:57 <SomeoneWeird> doesn't mean it's an exploit...
168 2011-09-12 02:03:01 <BlueMatt> not at all
169 2011-09-12 02:03:32 <BlueMatt> Joric: yes
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172 2011-09-12 02:03:48 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: stacktrace or it didnt happen
173 2011-09-12 02:04:06 <Joric> it would still need tcp sockets though and all that handshake stuff
174 2011-09-12 02:04:24 <SomeoneWeird> lol
175 2011-09-12 02:04:33 <Joric> since gae doesn't allow connection to the network it probably might be done via java applet
176 2011-09-12 02:04:34 <BlueMatt> Joric: ...?
177 2011-09-12 02:04:41 <SomeoneWeird> Joric; just sign the transaction and broadcast it out to the nework
178 2011-09-12 02:04:43 <SomeoneWeird> network*
179 2011-09-12 02:04:53 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it happens often
180 2011-09-12 02:05:05 <SomeoneWeird> doesn't mean bull
181 2011-09-12 02:05:06 <luke-jr> SomeoneWeird: yes it does
182 2011-09-12 02:05:20 <SomeoneWeird> pfft
183 2011-09-12 02:05:31 <luke-jr> SomeoneWeird: at least, combined with the fact that it's the same code that's been working for months, it does
184 2011-09-12 02:05:32 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: never heard of anyone but you complaining and juding by your previous statements on how heavily modified your bitcoind is...
185 2011-09-12 02:05:35 <BlueMatt> you see my point
186 2011-09-12 02:05:38 <pointbiz> is someone receiving transactions as a web service?
187 2011-09-12 02:05:45 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I've heard it from others too ;)
188 2011-09-12 02:06:18 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: why the hell are you bringing this up just to complain, it doesnt help anything
189 2011-09-12 02:06:32 <SomeoneWeird> people shouldn't be using .2
190 2011-09-12 02:06:34 <SomeoneWeird> *.23
191 2011-09-12 02:06:46 <BlueMatt> also that
192 2011-09-12 02:06:51 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: trying to find out more about it
193 2011-09-12 02:06:58 <BlueMatt> wait, luke-jr is complaining about a bug in 0.3.23???
194 2011-09-12 02:07:00 <Joric> if only bitcoin clients were using http )
195 2011-09-12 02:07:10 <luke-jr> Joric: that'd be stupid
196 2011-09-12 02:07:41 <SomeoneWeird> BlueMatt, <luke-jr> xelister: it seems someone has figured out a way to crash bitcoind 0.3.23 at least
197 2011-09-12 02:07:43 <Joric> but handy
198 2011-09-12 02:08:13 <BlueMatt> good, I hope they start crashing all the 0.3.23 nodes to get people to upgrade
199 2011-09-12 02:08:32 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: mine has the network fix cherry-picked, ofc
200 2011-09-12 02:08:40 <luke-jr> as do Gentoo users
201 2011-09-12 02:08:45 <luke-jr> (which has 0.3.20.2 stable)
202 2011-09-12 02:08:50 <BlueMatt> wtf???
203 2011-09-12 02:09:02 <BlueMatt> there are soooo many more fixes on top of that version
204 2011-09-12 02:09:09 somuchwin has joined
205 2011-09-12 02:09:09 <SomeoneWeird> 0.o
206 2011-09-12 02:09:15 <luke-jr> but it's the last version before deadlocks
207 2011-09-12 02:09:18 <luke-jr> I have hopes for 0.4 ;)
208 2011-09-12 02:09:33 <SomeoneWeird> just full on kill .23 in the .4 update
209 2011-09-12 02:09:51 <luke-jr> SomeoneWeird: after 0.4 has been tested for a while, that's my next rebase
210 2011-09-12 02:10:08 brunner has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
211 2011-09-12 02:10:08 * BlueMatt is about to go write a mod to make bitcoin refuse to run if its outdated...
212 2011-09-12 02:10:25 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I can easily strip that.
213 2011-09-12 02:10:31 <luke-jr> it'd also be utterly stupid
214 2011-09-12 02:10:31 <SomeoneWeird> luke-jr, i mean exactly what BlueMatt just said ^^ :)
215 2011-09-12 02:10:33 <BlueMatt> you can, but gentoo wont
216 2011-09-12 02:10:38 <luke-jr> will*
217 2011-09-12 02:10:44 * luke-jr happens to maintain the Gentoo ebuilds
218 2011-09-12 02:10:52 <SomeoneWeird> lol
219 2011-09-12 02:10:56 <SomeoneWeird> /fail
220 2011-09-12 02:11:11 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: this bleeding-edge-required is terrible practice
221 2011-09-12 02:11:14 <BlueMatt> wait, are the gentoo builds in the official package manager?
222 2011-09-12 02:11:20 <luke-jr> ESPECIALLY for financial software
223 2011-09-12 02:11:38 <Joric> just add 0.23 crasher to 0.4
224 2011-09-12 02:11:42 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: you don't seem to understand how Gentoo works ;)
225 2011-09-12 02:11:53 <BlueMatt> I dont, enlighten me
226 2011-09-12 02:11:56 <luke-jr> Joric: as soon as I identify the problem, I'm patching it
227 2011-09-12 02:12:25 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: everything is automatically built from source; besides core stuff, the ebuilds (instructions to build it) are stored in overlays
228 2011-09-12 02:12:43 <BlueMatt> I know that, I was asking if your ebuilds are in the official ebuild manager
229 2011-09-12 02:13:00 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: don't know what your obsession with "official" is
230 2011-09-12 02:13:36 <Joric> responsibility mb?
231 2011-09-12 02:13:39 <BlueMatt> if its unofficial, of course you can patch that out and patch bitcoin however you want, if its the officially shipped list of ebuilds, you really cant
232 2011-09-12 02:13:48 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: wrong
233 2011-09-12 02:13:58 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: Gentoo patches lots of things
234 2011-09-12 02:14:00 <luke-jr> like KDE
235 2011-09-12 02:14:01 <luke-jr> or Linux
236 2011-09-12 02:14:08 <luke-jr> Bitcoind is no exception
237 2011-09-12 02:14:13 <BlueMatt> or at least Id ask, who the hell let luke-jr maintin officially released ebuilds
238 2011-09-12 02:14:22 <luke-jr> especially when the bitcoind maintainers refuse to follow standard software practices
239 2011-09-12 02:14:29 <BlueMatt> are the eligius patches in your ebuilds?
240 2011-09-12 02:14:35 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: optional
241 2011-09-12 02:14:40 <BlueMatt> ...
242 2011-09-12 02:15:04 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: you have an authority complex.
243 2011-09-12 02:15:05 <BlueMatt> oh good, there are no official packages for bitcoin
244 2011-09-12 02:15:23 <BlueMatt> so I dont have to care wtf luke-jr breaks in bitcoin ebuilds
245 2011-09-12 02:15:26 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * 4a2652e5eb6b r52 /src/main/java/com/shadworld/poolserver/TempLogger.java: - fix: TempLogger not appending newline
246 2011-09-12 02:15:26 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * b3ccc10aaaae r53 /src/main/java/com/shadworld/poolserver/WorkerProxy.java: - fix: WorkerProxy was case sensitive. In cases where database case was different to user supplied case of worker name this would cause a cache miss and force a db query every time. Thanks to <Eleuthria> for finding.
247 2011-09-12 02:15:32 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: nothing is broken
248 2011-09-12 02:15:57 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I would be glad if bitcoind maintainers ever move to a sane release strategy
249 2011-09-12 02:16:04 <BlueMatt> like?
250 2011-09-12 02:16:13 <luke-jr> like one that involves a stable branch
251 2011-09-12 02:16:28 <BlueMatt> you mean like a update branch and unstable?
252 2011-09-12 02:16:39 <luke-jr> like one that only ever gets bugfixes
253 2011-09-12 02:16:45 <luke-jr> and remains supported for 3 years
254 2011-09-12 02:16:52 <BlueMatt> I dont disagree but...meh
255 2011-09-12 02:17:00 <BlueMatt> both ways have big disadvantages and advantages...
256 2011-09-12 02:17:01 <Joric> i remember that epic patch of nvidia driver https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee/commit/a047be85247755cdbe0acce6
257 2011-09-12 02:17:08 <Joric> not sure it was official
258 2011-09-12 02:17:13 <BlueMatt> like a /ton/ of wasted effort
259 2011-09-12 02:17:17 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: until then, distros will always have to do the patching themselves
260 2011-09-12 02:17:25 <BlueMatt> Joric: please stfu until you are remotely sort of on-topic
261 2011-09-12 02:17:33 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: maintaining a stable branch takes almost no effort, if development is done correctly.
262 2011-09-12 02:18:00 <SomeoneWeird> define: correctly
263 2011-09-12 02:18:06 <luke-jr> SomeoneWeird: daggy fixes
264 2011-09-12 02:18:08 <BlueMatt> the kernel style of rcs for weeks is great for a project with a ton of testing
265 2011-09-12 02:18:39 <BlueMatt> but Im not sure a project without many contributors could work well under a stable and branch release method
266 2011-09-12 02:18:43 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: even with all that testing, Linux still regularly does final releases with major regressions
267 2011-09-12 02:18:51 <SomeoneWeird> meh
268 2011-09-12 02:18:51 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: and distros continue to maintain stable branches
269 2011-09-12 02:19:12 <luke-jr> stable/development branching takes minimal effort, and doesn't require excessive testing
270 2011-09-12 02:19:25 <luke-jr> excessive testing is needed *because* of the *lack* of a stable branch
271 2011-09-12 02:19:27 <BlueMatt> takes more effort than you think with bitcoin...
272 2011-09-12 02:19:49 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: only because/if most bitcoin bugfixes are done wrong
273 2011-09-12 02:19:53 <BlueMatt> the lack of well-defined structures and general mess of code makes merging particularly hard
274 2011-09-12 02:20:11 <luke-jr> well, admittedly the major refactoring lately would make it more difficult
275 2011-09-12 02:20:18 <luke-jr> hopefully when that's done, it will be easier
276 2011-09-12 02:20:25 <BlueMatt> hopefully more of that will happen
277 2011-09-12 02:20:50 <luke-jr> maybe 0.5 will be sanitized enough to be supported when 0.6 is underway
278 2011-09-12 02:20:58 <BlueMatt> which means we can continue as it currently is until we are done and have a sanitized bitcoin
279 2011-09-12 02:21:15 <luke-jr> sure
280 2011-09-12 02:21:18 <BlueMatt> well Id do the grunt work if someone who could design libs good would do the lib part to make gavin happy
281 2011-09-12 02:21:36 <luke-jr> BC Consultancy is doing a lib from scratch fwiw
282 2011-09-12 02:21:36 <BlueMatt> (already have done some of the gruntwork)
283 2011-09-12 02:21:56 <BlueMatt> meh, I still think it could be finished quicker if its done from current code
284 2011-09-12 02:22:09 noagendamarket has joined
285 2011-09-12 02:23:36 <luke-jr> probably.
286 2011-09-12 02:23:54 <luke-jr> but as we all know, it's easier to write new code than to mess with old code
287 2011-09-12 02:24:08 <luke-jr> so even if the latter is quicker, people tend to do the former
288 2011-09-12 02:25:14 amtal has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
289 2011-09-12 02:32:32 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
290 2011-09-12 02:38:15 <martind> as a noob who's been browsing & lurking for a week I can't help but wonder if the Bitcoin core group isn't actually structured more like a centralised corporate model rather than a classic open source project.
291 2011-09-12 02:38:24 <martind> I loved reading this ^ debate
292 2011-09-12 02:39:03 <luke-jr> martind: there is no real "core group"; just a few guys who think they are authority
293 2011-09-12 02:39:04 <cjdelisle> martind: that's open source for ya
294 2011-09-12 02:39:23 <cjdelisle> "I want to add a feature" --> "eat shit"
295 2011-09-12 02:39:26 <luke-jr> mainly because they were early adopters
296 2011-09-12 02:39:30 <martind> I'm not surprised that there's a fair amount of culture clash, people appear to have quite different approaches
297 2011-09-12 02:39:53 <martind> luke-jr: orly. it's good to hear this :D
298 2011-09-12 02:40:11 <luke-jr> martind: as soon as someone forks it, I've got a bunch of things I'll probably submit for merging :P
299 2011-09-12 02:40:24 <martind> cjdelisle: that's not open source, that's attitude what you descirbe
300 2011-09-12 02:40:30 <luke-jr> at the very least, a GUI for the signmessage function
301 2011-09-12 02:41:26 <martind> luke-jr: are you in the US? we're planning a London meetup atm
302 2011-09-12 02:41:32 <cjdelisle> martind: what I'm saying is that kind of attitude is pretty comon if not universal throughout the open source world. People volunteer their time and don't get paid but they get the feeling of power, that's what keeps them helping and keeps the prokect going.
303 2011-09-12 02:41:46 <martind> cjdelisle: no. the common attitude is "send patches"
304 2011-09-12 02:41:46 <luke-jr> martind: Florida
305 2011-09-12 02:41:50 <martind> there's a difference
306 2011-09-12 02:41:59 <martind> luke-jr: of course :)
307 2011-09-12 02:42:24 <martind> cjdelisle: what you're describing is badly managed OSS
308 2011-09-12 02:42:41 <martind> and yes there's a fair amount of it, but it's not the norm
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311 2011-09-12 02:43:01 <phantomcircuit> i think it is the norm but most projects do a good job of hiding it
312 2011-09-12 02:43:08 <martind> heh
313 2011-09-12 02:43:09 <Cory> Can you start the default bitcoin client (not bitcoind) with the -rescan argument?
314 2011-09-12 02:43:11 [7] has quit (Disconnected by services)
315 2011-09-12 02:43:20 <phantomcircuit> Cory, yes
316 2011-09-12 02:43:29 TheSeven has joined
317 2011-09-12 02:43:30 <Cory> Awesome, thanks!
318 2011-09-12 02:43:50 <cjdelisle> You can complain and I might agree with you (I'm not part of the cabol) but the fact is, these people are doing more for this project than you or I and, for me, that is enough to make me hold my tongue.
319 2011-09-12 02:43:57 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
320 2011-09-12 02:44:21 <martind> I'm not even complaining, I'm just trying to understand this community. I'm fascinated.
321 2011-09-12 02:45:55 fnord0 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
322 2011-09-12 02:46:04 <luke-jr> martind: there's a lot of people doing alternate implementations
323 2011-09-12 02:46:04 <martind> I loved the contrast of Gavin and Amir on TWIS
324 2011-09-12 02:46:28 <luke-jr> martind: when people consider forking the original implementation, they realize what a mess it is and decide they're better off starting from scratch
325 2011-09-12 02:46:49 <luke-jr> when those projects start maturing, I expect we'll see a big change
326 2011-09-12 02:47:03 <cjdelisle> competition is good...
327 2011-09-12 02:47:09 <martind> well it just seems a pity to forego this one well-running network just because the governance structure needs sorting out
328 2011-09-12 02:47:27 <phantomcircuit> the issue is not governance
329 2011-09-12 02:47:44 <phantomcircuit> the current implementation is well tested but poorly designed
330 2011-09-12 02:47:56 <martind> yeah I've heard that on more than one occasion
331 2011-09-12 02:48:07 <phantomcircuit> and it's my understanding that the script engine actually had an exploitable flaw in it
332 2011-09-12 02:48:14 <luke-jr> martind: the alternatives use the same network
333 2011-09-12 02:48:15 <cjdelisle> if you think we're bad, join #bittorrent and start proposing changes, I'll hear the roar of laughter from my house.
334 2011-09-12 02:48:21 <martind> but that's not really what we're debating here, or did I misunderstand
335 2011-09-12 02:48:33 <martind> luke-jr: ah I see
336 2011-09-12 02:48:54 <martind> what are the biggest ones, besides libbitcoin?
337 2011-09-12 02:49:03 wboy1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
338 2011-09-12 02:49:06 <luke-jr> martind: the blockchain forks like i0coin and SolidCoin are just bad money-making scams, not real projects
339 2011-09-12 02:49:21 <martind> why am I not surprised :D
340 2011-09-12 02:49:24 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
341 2011-09-12 02:49:25 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: you still working on Python impl?
342 2011-09-12 02:49:26 <phantomcircuit> martind, bitcoinj bitcoin-alt
343 2011-09-12 02:49:30 <phantomcircuit> i dont know of any others
344 2011-09-12 02:49:35 <martind> ta :)
345 2011-09-12 02:49:35 <luke-jr> bitcoinj = Google
346 2011-09-12 02:49:38 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, no but it works kind of
347 2011-09-12 02:49:47 * luke-jr wonders if mtve is still doing the Perl one
348 2011-09-12 02:49:49 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: kind of?
349 2011-09-12 02:50:00 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: does it work good enough to integrate into Spesmilo? ;)
350 2011-09-12 02:50:01 <martind> are any of these alt devs Europeans?
351 2011-09-12 02:50:01 <phantomcircuit> it will download the blockchain and put it into a sql db
352 2011-09-12 02:50:12 <phantomcircuit> but it doesn't properly handle peers
353 2011-09-12 02:50:19 <luke-jr> martind: I think BC Consultancy is all European
354 2011-09-12 02:50:24 <martind> yep
355 2011-09-12 02:50:26 <phantomcircuit> im in poland
356 2011-09-12 02:50:26 <phantomcircuit> heh
357 2011-09-12 02:50:30 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: block chain reorgs? double spends?
358 2011-09-12 02:50:38 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, doesn't even try
359 2011-09-12 02:50:42 <luke-jr> >_<
360 2011-09-12 02:50:46 <phantomcircuit> it just data dumps
361 2011-09-12 02:50:50 <martind> "kind of", like he said :D
362 2011-09-12 02:50:51 <phantomcircuit> yeah i know
363 2011-09-12 02:51:12 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, i got to implementing OP_CHECKSIG and just stopped
364 2011-09-12 02:51:12 ThomasV has joined
365 2011-09-12 02:51:13 <phantomcircuit> hehe
366 2011-09-12 02:52:37 <luke-jr> -.-
367 2011-09-12 02:52:48 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: get genjix to pay you to finish it!
368 2011-09-12 02:52:53 <phantomcircuit> lol
369 2011-09-12 02:54:46 <martind> stupid/basic question. who maintains the bootstrap channel? afaik that's the one central bit of infrastructure?
370 2011-09-12 02:55:45 <luke-jr> channels-- there's 101 ;)
371 2011-09-12 02:55:51 <luke-jr> no idea tho
372 2011-09-12 02:56:07 <martind> ok
373 2011-09-12 02:57:01 <martind> it'll be interesting to see where the few centralised resources end up. trademark, domain, bootstrapping channel. I would hope that a community governance emerges, and not a self-appointed group
374 2011-09-12 02:57:22 <martind> *community governance model
375 2011-09-12 02:57:43 <phantomcircuit> mtgox is trying to register the trademark he has promised it will be for whoever wants to use it in relation to bitcoin
376 2011-09-12 02:57:56 <martind> that's not a good long-term plan
377 2011-09-12 02:57:59 <phantomcircuit> the bootstrap irc stuff is pretty much useless actually so meh
378 2011-09-12 02:58:04 HarryS has joined
379 2011-09-12 02:58:07 <martind> as soon as they sell their company anything is possible
380 2011-09-12 02:58:09 <Joric> phantomcircuit, there's a python implementation of OP_CHECKSIG i currently working on https://github.com/joric/brutus
381 2011-09-12 02:58:42 <phantomcircuit> Joric, if you get it working i'll integrate it into bitcoin-alt
382 2011-09-12 02:59:07 <Joric> it's a complete bitcoin client, a fork from caesure
383 2011-09-12 02:59:14 <luke-jr> looks like MtGox is shooting up up up
384 2011-09-12 02:59:40 <luke-jr> Joric: I hope you don't mean a monster like the original client
385 2011-09-12 03:00:01 <luke-jr> ie, trying to be a node, wallet, and GUI all at once
386 2011-09-12 03:00:05 <ymirhotfoot> ;;ticker
387 2011-09-12 03:00:06 <gribble> Best bid: 6.18312, Best ask: 6.2, Bid-ask spread: 0.01688, Last trade: 6.22362, 24 hour volume: 161799, 24 hour low: 4.6, 24 hour high: 7.4
388 2011-09-12 03:00:30 fnord0 has joined
389 2011-09-12 03:00:39 <phantomcircuit> # for some reason many hashes are reversed, dunno why. [this may just be block explorer?]
390 2011-09-12 03:00:40 <Joric> python core + telnet + web gui
391 2011-09-12 03:00:42 <phantomcircuit> Joric, lol...
392 2011-09-12 03:01:13 skeledrew has joined
393 2011-09-12 03:01:44 <luke-jr> Joric: >_<
394 2011-09-12 03:01:54 <luke-jr> Joric: how about just JSON-RPC so it works with Spesmilo? ;)
395 2011-09-12 03:02:14 <Joric> i hate spesmilo
396 2011-09-12 03:02:24 <luke-jr> -.-
397 2011-09-12 03:02:39 <phantomcircuit> ahahah
398 2011-09-12 03:03:10 <phantomcircuit> Joric, fyi i used the same style of decoding network messages but it isn't the best way to do it
399 2011-09-12 03:03:16 <martind> "send patches" :D
400 2011-09-12 03:03:18 <phantomcircuit> since you end up double buffering a lot of stuff
401 2011-09-12 03:03:49 <luke-jr> martind: exactly
402 2011-09-12 03:03:50 <Joric> it's 99.9 not mine check out the origin i forked )
403 2011-09-12 03:04:05 <Joric> i just made it work with testnet-in-a-box
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410 2011-09-12 03:10:52 <Joric> Sam Rushing made a big job, i thought the only alternative implementation was jbitcoin
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412 2011-09-12 03:11:32 <Joric> *bitcoinj, sorry )
413 2011-09-12 03:14:50 <Joric> pointbiz, i managed to snatch those 0.05, may i keep them?
414 2011-09-12 03:16:24 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
415 2011-09-12 03:18:59 <luke-jr> I hope MagicalTux releases his QBitcoin core (which I presume is the same one powering MtGox now) soon :P
416 2011-09-12 03:23:32 <phantomcircuit> he is using multiple bitcoind instances
417 2011-09-12 03:23:46 <phantomcircuit> i seriously doubt he is using a custom client
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428 2011-09-12 03:38:53 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: he is
429 2011-09-12 03:39:33 <jrmithdobbs> more NIH
430 2011-09-12 03:39:38 <jrmithdobbs> mtgox quality
431 2011-09-12 03:40:04 amtal has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
432 2011-09-12 03:41:29 amtal has joined
433 2011-09-12 03:41:43 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: everyone knows bitcoind sucks ;)
434 2011-09-12 03:41:53 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: and QBitcoin has been in the works since before MT bought MtGox
435 2011-09-12 03:42:00 <jrmithdobbs> everyone knows tux's code sucks more, he keeps proving it
436 2011-09-12 03:42:12 brunner has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
437 2011-09-12 03:42:13 <jrmithdobbs> and the guy before tux's code sucked even more, so you're not helping
438 2011-09-12 03:42:15 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: FUD
439 2011-09-12 03:42:27 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: really? then why's the orderbook still fucked 12+ hours later?
440 2011-09-12 03:42:35 <luke-jr> looks fine to me
441 2011-09-12 03:42:41 <luke-jr> has ever since he deployed his code
442 2011-09-12 03:42:51 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: it's still saying it hit 12+ when it didn't
443 2011-09-12 03:43:02 <jrmithdobbs> and there are still bad trades going across the websocket according to reports by several
444 2011-09-12 03:43:22 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, there were significant trading issues early on too which were rolled back
445 2011-09-12 03:43:34 <jrmithdobbs> some were rolled back, silently
446 2011-09-12 03:43:42 <phantomcircuit> no i mean months ago
447 2011-09-12 03:43:47 <jrmithdobbs> oh
448 2011-09-12 03:43:48 <phantomcircuit> or i guess 1 month ago
449 2011-09-12 03:43:50 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: never noticed.
450 2011-09-12 03:43:55 <jrmithdobbs> ya forgot about those
451 2011-09-12 03:43:59 <phantomcircuit> most people didn't
452 2011-09-12 03:44:18 Workbench has joined
453 2011-09-12 03:44:21 <jrmithdobbs> he wrote his own mysql DAO and says prepared statements are bad
454 2011-09-12 03:44:26 <jrmithdobbs> he's just an assclown
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458 2011-09-12 03:51:12 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: you also keep implying that i have some incentive to create FUD against tux instead of just restate is constant stupidity, i have nothing invested in any competitor/etc, despite rumors to the contrary, you know this right?
459 2011-09-12 03:51:20 <jrmithdobbs> just throwing that out there.
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465 2011-09-12 03:59:25 <martind> jrmithdobbs: I don't blame him. I usually treat blatant disparagement with the same scepticism. there aren't many good reasons to do that in public.
466 2011-09-12 04:00:28 <jrmithdobbs> martind: eh, tux has repeatedly shown his incompetentence and willingness to lie to his customers. he doesn't even deserve common curtesy, imho
467 2011-09-12 04:00:42 <martind> :)
468 2011-09-12 04:00:56 <jrmithdobbs> but point taken ;p
469 2011-09-12 04:01:32 BlueMatt has joined
470 2011-09-12 04:01:38 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: nonsense
471 2011-09-12 04:01:54 <luke-jr> admittedly, some of the early announced info when MtGox got attacked was wrong
472 2011-09-12 04:02:01 num1 has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
473 2011-09-12 04:02:08 <luke-jr> but when he finally released the final report, it made sense how he was confused earlier
474 2011-09-12 04:06:05 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: he left out the parts where people were screaming the truth at him to make himself look more competent, but i digress, you've got a business relationship with the man and a vested financial interest in defending him
475 2011-09-12 04:06:32 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
476 2011-09-12 04:06:44 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: he left out things he couldn't confirm
477 2011-09-12 04:06:51 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: so if anything, my comments aren't FUD, *yours* are propaganda
478 2011-09-12 04:07:04 <luke-jr> nope
479 2011-09-12 04:07:06 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: he left out that he was notified of exactly what he said in the end within 72 hours
480 2011-09-12 04:07:12 <BlueMatt> not relevant to this chan
481 2011-09-12 04:07:43 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: I highly doubt that.
482 2011-09-12 04:07:55 <luke-jr> BlueMatt's point is valid
483 2011-09-12 04:08:04 <luke-jr> take it back to #bitcoinconsultancy :p
484 2011-09-12 04:08:14 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: it's archived on the f-d archives with his support email cc'ed so doubt all you like
485 2011-09-12 04:08:39 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: fair enough.
486 2011-09-12 04:08:43 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: the only way someone could have notified him was if they were the one responsible
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495 2011-09-12 04:16:56 <Cory> Does --rescan work "backwards"?
496 2011-09-12 04:17:10 <Cory> (scanning from the newest to the oldest blockes)
497 2011-09-12 04:17:23 <cande> is it possible to calculate the sum of all fees beeing payed during a time "t"
498 2011-09-12 04:18:07 <jrmithdobbs> Cory: no it starts at the genesis block and goes forward
499 2011-09-12 04:18:11 <Disposition> Cory: no
500 2011-09-12 04:18:19 knotwork has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
501 2011-09-12 04:19:38 <Cory> Hrm, does that only take a few seconds?
502 2011-09-12 04:20:10 <Cory> A payment to an imported key showed up pretty quickly.
503 2011-09-12 04:20:15 <imsaguy> you dont need to do a --rescan anymore
504 2011-09-12 04:20:22 <Cory> Oh?
505 2011-09-12 04:21:02 <imsaguy> <+pigeons> you can swap wallets without rescan now
506 2011-09-12 04:21:37 <Cory> How does that work?
507 2011-09-12 04:21:55 <Disposition> after 3.21 the client has a stored index of last scanned block in the wallet, so it'll rescan block after stored index, and add transactions accordingly.
508 2011-09-12 04:22:09 KenArmitt has joined
509 2011-09-12 04:23:01 <imsaguy> basically a shortcut
510 2011-09-12 04:23:04 <Cory> So I could import an address to which a payment was sent in the first few thousand blocks, and it would show up in seconds?
511 2011-09-12 04:23:05 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
512 2011-09-12 04:23:30 <phantomcircuit> Cory, you should still do it to be certain
513 2011-09-12 04:23:32 JackStorm has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
514 2011-09-12 04:23:42 <Disposition> Cory: how are you importing it?
515 2011-09-12 04:23:52 <Disposition> iirc sipa's branch does some updating
516 2011-09-12 04:24:04 <Disposition> but if you are modifying the wallet directly I dunno
517 2011-09-12 04:24:06 <phantomcircuit> the index is stored as an index
518 2011-09-12 04:24:18 <phantomcircuit> if the block reorg happens then it will be wrong
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520 2011-09-12 04:24:56 <Disposition> try it and let us know :)
521 2011-09-12 04:25:25 <Cory> I don't have the privkey to an early address, unfortunately.
522 2011-09-12 04:25:34 JackStorm has joined
523 2011-09-12 04:25:43 <Cory> I would import it with pywallet.
524 2011-09-12 04:25:55 <Cory> So I'd be modifying wallet.dat directly.
525 2011-09-12 04:26:19 <Disposition> ask the pywallet dev then
526 2011-09-12 04:28:14 <Joric> you should do -rescan to import modified wallet, wallet cannot force rescan itself
527 2011-09-12 04:29:49 <Cory> I did import an address to which BTC was sent in the previous block, and it showed up in seconds after I opened the client with the --rescan argument.
528 2011-09-12 04:30:19 <Cory> Was that only because it was in the last block, and it wouldn't have been that quick if it were in earlier blocks?
529 2011-09-12 04:30:28 <Joric> it's fast
530 2011-09-12 04:30:38 <Cory> How fast? :P
531 2011-09-12 04:31:01 brunner has joined
532 2011-09-12 04:31:13 <Joric> i don't know, a couple of minutes
533 2011-09-12 04:32:21 <Cory> Thanks! :D
534 2011-09-12 04:32:32 RazielZ has joined
535 2011-09-12 04:33:12 <Joric> unless blockchain file is 'hot' already, i.e. cached by os
536 2011-09-12 04:33:29 <Joric> maybe even faster )
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566 2011-09-12 06:10:21 <d33tah> hi, i'd like to report i've found a solution to N5boost16exception_detail10clone_implINS0_19error_info_injectorINS_6system12system_errorEEEEE error
567 2011-09-12 06:10:46 <d33tah> just in case it gets found by some bot, indexed and would help some random buddy:
568 2011-09-12 06:11:33 <d33tah> it's about setting rpcport to, say, 8333. it can't be done in 0.3.24, because the port is going to be registered for bitcoind anyway. that, and the lack of proper validation, causes this error
569 2011-09-12 06:11:46 <d33tah> hope the devs would fix it somehow in the future
570 2011-09-12 06:12:53 <luke-jr> d33tah: what?
571 2011-09-12 06:12:58 <luke-jr> what's the problem>?
572 2011-09-12 06:13:08 <d33tah> i just tried to run bitcoind on my server
573 2011-09-12 06:13:15 <d33tah> and i set rpcport to 8333
574 2011-09-12 06:13:17 <luke-jr> â¦
575 2011-09-12 06:13:18 <d33tah> see what happens yourself
576 2011-09-12 06:13:23 <luke-jr> do stupid things, get stupid results
577 2011-09-12 06:13:25 <d33tah> took me some time to figure out what's wrong :p
578 2011-09-12 06:13:25 <luke-jr> duh
579 2011-09-12 06:13:33 <luke-jr> notabug
580 2011-09-12 06:13:36 <d33tah> never knew it's reserved aswell
581 2011-09-12 06:13:57 <d33tah> i just tried some security by obscurity thingy, changing the default port
582 2011-09-12 06:14:00 <d33tah> and that's what I got
583 2011-09-12 06:14:11 <d33tah> at least a warning would be useful :p
584 2011-09-12 06:14:29 <luke-jr> changing port to anything other than 8333 also doesn't work really ;)
585 2011-09-12 06:14:49 <d33tah> what do you mean?
586 2011-09-12 06:15:43 <cjdelisle> rpc port is 8332 isn't it?
587 2011-09-12 06:15:54 <d33tah> i was trying to change it :p
588 2011-09-12 06:16:00 <d33tah> in the config file
589 2011-09-12 06:16:14 <d33tah> it was never documented that i'd get this error
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591 2011-09-12 06:17:24 <cjdelisle> so you set the rpc port to the traditional p2p port, peers connected to you and you got an error?
592 2011-09-12 06:17:52 <d33tah> i just didn't know it's reserved for p2p
593 2011-09-12 06:18:00 <d33tah> that's pretty much how I found out
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595 2011-09-12 06:18:34 <cjdelisle> and your rpc port is open to the world
596 2011-09-12 06:18:36 <cjdelisle> mkay
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598 2011-09-12 06:19:17 <SomeoneWeird> lawl
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611 2011-09-12 07:03:07 <theorbtwo> FWIW, it doesn't seem like it should be a problem to me. If the port is half-hardcoded, and half changeable with a config option, it's a bug, plain and simple.
612 2011-09-12 07:03:21 <theorbtwo> Either the configuration option should be removed if it doesn't work, or it should be made to work.
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614 2011-09-12 07:04:19 <phantomcircuit> theorbtwo, you can configure the ports, just not to be the same
615 2011-09-12 07:06:55 <theorbtwo> Hm. From the way others were talking, it sounded like it didn't work to reconfigure the ports at all.
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654 2011-09-12 08:09:22 <Rahar> Hi everyone! One question, where can I find best documentation on bitcoin system and protocol?
655 2011-09-12 08:13:12 <cjdelisle> the wiki is the best documentation I could find.
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659 2011-09-12 08:20:17 <SomeoneWeird> yep, wiki is best Rahar
660 2011-09-12 08:20:19 <SomeoneWeird> bitcoin.it
661 2011-09-12 08:23:27 <Rahar> thanks!
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689 2011-09-12 10:04:44 <noagendamarket> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/kcxdk/if_reddit_accepts_bitcoin_for_reddit_gold_i_will/
690 2011-09-12 10:06:57 d33tah has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
691 2011-09-12 10:08:26 <UukGoblin> is bitcoinica on bitcoincharts yet?
692 2011-09-12 10:08:33 d33tah has joined
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694 2011-09-12 10:22:11 <phantomcircuit> UukGoblin, they provide no api
695 2011-09-12 10:22:35 <UukGoblin> :-<
696 2011-09-12 10:23:02 <phantomcircuit> oh they do
697 2011-09-12 10:24:42 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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700 2011-09-12 10:26:28 <phantomcircuit> UukGoblin, they provide no way to get the depth
701 2011-09-12 10:26:39 <phantomcircuit> so im guessing they will never be listed because that's bullshit
702 2011-09-12 10:27:02 <UukGoblin> I'm only interested in trades as reported by amphipod
703 2011-09-12 10:27:09 devon_hillard has joined
704 2011-09-12 10:27:50 <phantomcircuit> UukGoblin, what is that
705 2011-09-12 10:28:03 <UukGoblin> the stuff that goes on #bitcoin-market
706 2011-09-12 10:28:17 <phantomcircuit> also i suspect that they are just straight up lying
707 2011-09-12 10:28:33 <phantomcircuit> Last 24 Hours
708 2011-09-12 10:28:33 <phantomcircuit> 19660.7 BTC Traded
709 2011-09-12 10:28:35 <phantomcircuit> yeah right
710 2011-09-12 10:28:54 <UukGoblin> interesting
711 2011-09-12 10:29:00 <phantomcircuit> they had almost the same volume as mtgox?
712 2011-09-12 10:29:02 <phantomcircuit> bull
713 2011-09-12 10:29:03 <phantomcircuit> shit
714 2011-09-12 10:30:57 pickett__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
715 2011-09-12 10:31:20 <UukGoblin> "SECURITY
716 2011-09-12 10:31:21 <UukGoblin> We don't operate a Bitcoin wallet. All our funds are stored in Mt. Gox and our bank accounts."
717 2011-09-12 10:31:24 <UukGoblin> lol?
718 2011-09-12 10:31:36 iddo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
719 2011-09-12 10:31:44 <UukGoblin> that's, indeed, secure, considering how mtgox got pwn3d
720 2011-09-12 10:33:23 <phantomcircuit> We have kind of avoided the possibility of unlawful Bitcoin transactions, simply because we don't deliver Bitcoins. Bitcoinica is a trading platform for Internet commodities. Bitcoin makes money laundering and illegal transactions possible, but Bitcoinica doesn't have any intention or mechanism to facilitate these transactions.
721 2011-09-12 10:33:24 <UukGoblin> all accounts are by default margin accounts, which means you can trade more than you deposit - maybe that's the reason for high volume?
722 2011-09-12 10:33:35 <phantomcircuit> i like how what they are doing is a heavily regulated activity
723 2011-09-12 10:33:43 <phantomcircuit> and yet they're trying to pretend like it's ok
724 2011-09-12 10:33:56 pickett__ has joined
725 2011-09-12 10:34:06 <UukGoblin> huh
726 2011-09-12 10:34:32 <phantomcircuit> margin trading (even for commodities!) is a HEAVILY regulated activity
727 2011-09-12 10:34:59 <phantomcircuit> even if you're offering people margin on Ben's Magical Beans(tm) you are engaged in a heavily regulated activity
728 2011-09-12 10:35:07 <phantomcircuit> im pretty sure they're not properly licensed
729 2011-09-12 10:35:31 <UukGoblin> well
730 2011-09-12 10:35:35 <phantomcircuit> We're in the process of preparing our Terms of Service. Please come back later.
731 2011-09-12 10:35:36 <phantomcircuit> lol wat
732 2011-09-12 10:35:37 <UukGoblin> it's internet
733 2011-09-12 10:35:44 <UukGoblin> it's kind of a gray area isn't it?
734 2011-09-12 10:35:59 <phantomcircuit> i dont think it is really
735 2011-09-12 10:36:19 <phantomcircuit> lol they're in singapore
736 2011-09-12 10:36:20 <phantomcircuit> nice
737 2011-09-12 10:36:36 <noagendamarket> well hes 17
738 2011-09-12 10:36:39 <noagendamarket> lol
739 2011-09-12 10:36:39 <UukGoblin> if a bunch of anarchist placed a bitcoin margin-trading platform on tor, no country could really claim regulation over it
740 2011-09-12 10:36:56 <phantomcircuit> https://github.com/zhoutong
741 2011-09-12 10:36:56 <noagendamarket> its like a 5 year old running it
742 2011-09-12 10:36:58 <phantomcircuit> zhoutong ((Ryan) Zhou Tong)
743 2011-09-12 10:37:01 <phantomcircuit> facepalm
744 2011-09-12 10:37:03 <phantomcircuit> inb4jail
745 2011-09-12 10:37:09 <noagendamarket> hes still a minor
746 2011-09-12 10:37:32 <phantomcircuit> UukGoblin, that's correct except he is using mtgox so he has put himself in a jurisdiction
747 2011-09-12 10:38:09 <UukGoblin> well yeah
748 2011-09-12 10:38:23 <UukGoblin> not saying bitcoinica is one
749 2011-09-12 10:38:51 iddo has joined
750 2011-09-12 10:39:22 <UukGoblin> well to implement margin trading and whatnot features you want, you could really just write a piece of software that uses mtgox api
751 2011-09-12 10:39:32 <UukGoblin> assuming their api is good enough
752 2011-09-12 10:40:00 <phantomcircuit> you can only do it if you have the capital to cover trades
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756 2011-09-12 10:40:19 <UukGoblin> ah yes, true
757 2011-09-12 10:40:26 <phantomcircuit> my guess is that he is simply covering trades with his clients capital
758 2011-09-12 10:40:30 <phantomcircuit> which is lol illegal
759 2011-09-12 10:40:54 <UukGoblin> yeah
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771 2011-09-12 11:03:43 <phantomcircuit> UukGoblin, lol this shit is hilariously incompetent
772 2011-09-12 11:03:47 <phantomcircuit> Withdraw by Mt. Gox Code
773 2011-09-12 11:03:47 <phantomcircuit> Congratulations! This is your code:
774 2011-09-12 11:03:47 <phantomcircuit> Insufficient balance.
775 2011-09-12 11:04:02 <xelister> phantomcircuit: mtgox quality
776 2011-09-12 11:04:15 <phantomcircuit> bitcoinica
777 2011-09-12 11:04:25 <phantomcircuit> the site claims they have as much volume as mtgox
778 2011-09-12 11:04:25 <UukGoblin> lol
779 2011-09-12 11:04:31 <phantomcircuit> ME THINKS HES LYING
780 2011-09-12 11:05:04 <UukGoblin> ok, don't add it on bitcoincharts then
781 2011-09-12 11:05:07 <UukGoblin> he doesn't deserve it
782 2011-09-12 11:05:20 <SomeoneWeird> lolwut phantomcircuit
783 2011-09-12 11:05:21 <SomeoneWeird> where
784 2011-09-12 11:05:21 * UukGoblin just noticed a new exchange and went ooh!
785 2011-09-12 11:06:22 <phantomcircuit> SomeoneWeird, https://www.bitcoinica.com/
786 2011-09-12 11:06:27 <SomeoneWeird> ahright
787 2011-09-12 11:06:27 <phantomcircuit> Last 24 Hours
788 2011-09-12 11:06:28 <phantomcircuit> 19670.82 BTC Traded
789 2011-09-12 11:06:37 <phantomcircuit> bulllllssssshhhiiiiittttttt
790 2011-09-12 11:13:11 acdb has joined
791 2011-09-12 11:13:29 <xelister> oh someone else is failing too?
792 2011-09-12 11:13:38 <xelister> oh man. So what is the story with bitcoinica
793 2011-09-12 11:13:47 <AnnihilaT> who is failing?
794 2011-09-12 11:13:59 <AnnihilaT> (just joined my bnc)
795 2011-09-12 11:14:19 <xelister> AnnihilaT: I just joined too. phantomcircuit was talking
796 2011-09-12 11:14:24 <xelister> btw: <upb> https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20433652-resolved-outage-11804-unexecuted-trades <- looks like a bunch of FUD. how does 'unathorized access' lead to 'invalid order matching'
797 2011-09-12 11:15:19 <xelister> "(https://bitcointalk.org/ - independent of Mt.Gox)" there is a lie roght htere
798 2011-09-12 11:17:07 <xelister> also they blame the users and urge them to use strong passwords
799 2011-09-12 11:17:23 <xelister> as if this would be the cause for their plaform showing canceled orders as executed orders... wtf.
800 2011-09-12 11:17:24 <AnnihilaT> hmmm
801 2011-09-12 11:19:34 <cande> where in the code is the next difficult adjustment calculated ?
802 2011-09-12 11:20:23 <upb> the bitcoinica is actually a great idea
803 2011-09-12 11:20:51 <upb> because otherwise its near impossible to get new users or big market share
804 2011-09-12 11:21:29 <upb> the more users they get, the more the trades are matched between them shifting the volume from mtgox to itself
805 2011-09-12 11:22:42 Sedra has quit (Quit: ( IRC :: Quit ))
806 2011-09-12 11:27:45 <phantomcircuit> upb, yeah except it's pretty clear they're lying about volume
807 2011-09-12 11:27:55 <phantomcircuit> there is no fucking way they have the same volume as mtgox
808 2011-09-12 11:28:00 <phantomcircuit> that's just ridiculous
809 2011-09-12 11:28:26 <phantomcircuit> i mean shit if you're going to lie at least make it reasonable
810 2011-09-12 11:28:43 <upb> why do you think theyre lieing
811 2011-09-12 11:28:58 <upb> they are hedging their users trades on gox
812 2011-09-12 11:29:15 <phantomcircuit> the site is amateurish
813 2011-09-12 11:29:28 <upb> only one offering margin trading
814 2011-09-12 11:32:20 <someone42> cande: i think https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L639 has it
815 2011-09-12 11:33:16 <cande> thnx someone
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820 2011-09-12 11:45:10 <upb> phantomcircuit: btw, do you think theyre amateurish because they use AR not plain sql queries ?:P
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822 2011-09-12 11:46:01 <phantomcircuit> upb, no because they're using ruby on rails with a single controller
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824 2011-09-12 11:47:02 <phantomcircuit> upb, they're using that twitter css shit
825 2011-09-12 11:47:26 <phantomcircuit> and they're using a prebuilt user authentication module
826 2011-09-12 11:47:40 <phantomcircuit> which probably means plaintext passwords because all the ones available for ror are shit
827 2011-09-12 11:47:53 <epscy> phantomcircuit: hate rails much?
828 2011-09-12 11:48:11 <phantomcircuit> yes i really do
829 2011-09-12 11:48:14 <epscy> phantomcircuit: that isn't true anyway, check out devise
830 2011-09-12 11:48:23 <phantomcircuit> honestly the fundamental design is awesome
831 2011-09-12 11:48:32 <phantomcircuit> shit the implementation isn't even bad
832 2011-09-12 11:48:33 Incitatus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
833 2011-09-12 11:48:40 <phantomcircuit> but ruby itself is terrible
834 2011-09-12 11:48:46 WakiMiko_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
835 2011-09-12 11:48:53 <phantomcircuit> and the rate at which ror deprecates things is ridiculous
836 2011-09-12 11:49:02 <phantomcircuit> and when they deprecate them they're gone in like a week
837 2011-09-12 11:50:37 <upb> oh ok
838 2011-09-12 11:50:51 <upb> so all projects based on RoR are amateurish :)
839 2011-09-12 11:51:01 <phantomcircuit> yes?
840 2011-09-12 11:52:21 <epscy> phantomcircuit: you have a point, there are a lot of half finished stuff
841 2011-09-12 11:53:07 <phantomcircuit> who wants to see if i can hack them?
842 2011-09-12 11:53:10 <phantomcircuit> should be fun
843 2011-09-12 11:54:19 <epscy> phantomcircuit: i think rails isn't quite as bad as you think
844 2011-09-12 11:54:26 <epscy> it attracts newbie developers
845 2011-09-12 11:54:44 <UukGoblin> its marketing attract newbie developers
846 2011-09-12 11:54:48 <UukGoblin> and wannabe project managers
847 2011-09-12 11:54:54 <phantomcircuit> epscy, i've actually used rails on a project
848 2011-09-12 11:55:00 <epscy> so the signal to noise ratio is lower than say python or perl
849 2011-09-12 11:55:08 <phantomcircuit> it's nice if you're just doing a simple page display
850 2011-09-12 11:55:19 <phantomcircuit> and ruby isn't half bad if you learn all of it's ins and outs
851 2011-09-12 11:55:26 <cande> phantomcircuit: why not help me hack a code that calculates the sum of payed fees during the last bitcoin difficultyperiod
852 2011-09-12 11:55:28 <UukGoblin> yeah, as soon as you start needing something custom...
853 2011-09-12 11:55:45 <epscy> good rails developers can handle that though
854 2011-09-12 11:55:55 <epscy> the ones that actually understand their stack
855 2011-09-12 11:56:04 <epscy> and the same is true of any framework
856 2011-09-12 11:56:18 Rahar has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
857 2011-09-12 11:56:28 <epscy> rails just has some of the most egregious examples
858 2011-09-12 11:56:44 <epscy> phantomcircuit: so have you seen the bitcoinica source code?
859 2011-09-12 11:58:45 <tcatm> phantomcircuit: thanks for reminding me why I decided not to use ror ever again (deprecation policy) :)
860 2011-09-12 11:59:15 <phantomcircuit> lol
861 2011-09-12 11:59:26 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, im also pretty sure i can modify other users settings
862 2011-09-12 11:59:26 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
863 2011-09-12 11:59:29 <phantomcircuit> lets give this a try
864 2011-09-12 11:59:39 <phantomcircuit> ill register 2 accounts of course
865 2011-09-12 12:00:15 <phantomcircuit> he only has 536 registered users
866 2011-09-12 12:00:24 <phantomcircuit> there is NO WAY he has 20k BTC in volume
867 2011-09-12 12:01:06 enquirer has quit (Quit: back soon)
868 2011-09-12 12:01:15 <marf_away> well
869 2011-09-12 12:01:29 <marf_away> you borrow 4/5 of the btc
870 2011-09-12 12:01:44 <marf_away> much volume possible that way
871 2011-09-12 12:01:56 <phantomcircuit> mtgox is > 60k users
872 2011-09-12 12:02:13 <phantomcircuit> even at 10:1 he still isn't likely to have that much volume
873 2011-09-12 12:03:18 <upb> youre just jealous that he surpassed your exchanges :P
874 2011-09-12 12:04:33 <tcatm> it's not even an exchange
875 2011-09-12 12:04:36 <tcatm> just a gambling site
876 2011-09-12 12:04:41 <upb> basically yep
877 2011-09-12 12:05:23 <marf_away> its something like a cfd broker
878 2011-09-12 12:05:48 <tcatm> cfd brokers are also gambling sites ;)
879 2011-09-12 12:06:11 <marf_away> they are fun
880 2011-09-12 12:06:12 <marf_away> ;)
881 2011-09-12 12:06:15 <tcatm> yep
882 2011-09-12 12:07:23 erle- has joined
883 2011-09-12 12:08:36 log0s has joined
884 2011-09-12 12:09:24 <phantomcircuit> so first im going to try and change my other users settings
885 2011-09-12 12:09:30 <phantomcircuit> and then im going to try something hilarious
886 2011-09-12 12:10:55 <cande> :) amusing
887 2011-09-12 12:13:25 <phantomcircuit> rofl
888 2011-09-12 12:13:30 <phantomcircuit> i can change arbitrary users emails
889 2011-09-12 12:14:20 <phantomcircuit> yup
890 2011-09-12 12:14:25 <phantomcircuit> i can change anybodies email
891 2011-09-12 12:14:30 <phantomcircuit> and then reset their password
892 2011-09-12 12:14:40 <phantomcircuit> now for the hilarious part!
893 2011-09-12 12:15:09 <zamgo> you make bitcoinica go boom?
894 2011-09-12 12:15:24 <phantomcircuit> yes
895 2011-09-12 12:15:32 <phantomcircuit> AMATEUR HOUR ALL AROUND!
896 2011-09-12 12:15:41 <phantomcircuit> it's like a bad fucking joke
897 2011-09-12 12:16:15 <cande> hey, i create an account and you change my email?
898 2011-09-12 12:16:33 <tcatm> phantomcircuit: try changing my email :)
899 2011-09-12 12:16:58 <marf_away> by chanhing e-mail you can get pw of other accounts??
900 2011-09-12 12:17:13 <cande> yes he can
901 2011-09-12 12:17:15 <cande> password reset
902 2011-09-12 12:17:50 <epscy> phantomcircuit: how did you do it?, share the info!
903 2011-09-12 12:17:57 <cande> okey, phantomcircuit change my email
904 2011-09-12 12:18:01 <cande> user: cande
905 2011-09-12 12:18:17 karnac has joined
906 2011-09-12 12:18:42 <phantomcircuit> i dont think i can target users
907 2011-09-12 12:18:45 <phantomcircuit> i need the user id
908 2011-09-12 12:18:52 <zamgo> 1,2,3,4,5,...
909 2011-09-12 12:18:58 <cande> i just registerd
910 2011-09-12 12:19:02 <cande> take the latest user id
911 2011-09-12 12:19:18 <cande> and let me know it's email if it's mine
912 2011-09-12 12:19:20 <tcatm> phantomcircuit: how do I find out what ma id is?
913 2011-09-12 12:19:40 <phantomcircuit> i cant
914 2011-09-12 12:19:45 <phantomcircuit> oh
915 2011-09-12 12:19:55 <phantomcircuit> i cant tell you that without telling you how to do it
916 2011-09-12 12:19:56 <phantomcircuit> :(
917 2011-09-12 12:20:06 <phantomcircuit> let me check something
918 2011-09-12 12:20:11 <cande> are you just bullshiting us?
919 2011-09-12 12:20:29 <epscy> the user id will be in the url no?
920 2011-09-12 12:20:40 <epscy> so go to your user settings page
921 2011-09-12 12:20:43 <phantomcircuit> lol i've actually just said enough to figure it out
922 2011-09-12 12:20:46 <epscy> and look at the url
923 2011-09-12 12:20:48 * phantomcircuit shuts up
924 2011-09-12 12:21:00 <epscy> i don't have a bitcoinica account, so i am just guessing
925 2011-09-12 12:21:08 <cande> epscy: no
926 2011-09-12 12:21:17 <epscy> phantomcircuit: dude maybe you should tell the guy his site is insecure?
927 2011-09-12 12:21:53 <phantomcircuit> yeah i guess i should
928 2011-09-12 12:21:56 <tcatm> phantomcircuit: id 466
929 2011-09-12 12:21:56 <epscy> cande: phantomcircuit: are you going to make me sign up and figure out what is wrong myself?
930 2011-09-12 12:22:00 <phantomcircuit> what time is it in singapore?
931 2011-09-12 12:22:17 <cande> epscy: i have no clue what's wrong
932 2011-09-12 12:22:26 <tcatm> no idea but I've just got an email from him a few minutes ago so he is likely online
933 2011-09-12 12:22:30 <epscy> phantomcircuit: email him and say "you have 2 hours, after that i will tell everyone on irc what the exploit is"
934 2011-09-12 12:22:37 <cande> tcatm: how did you get your user id?
935 2011-09-12 12:22:51 <tcatm> cande: grep
936 2011-09-12 12:22:51 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, check your settings page
937 2011-09-12 12:23:02 twobits has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
938 2011-09-12 12:23:28 <tcatm> it still shows my correct email address
939 2011-09-12 12:23:55 Baksch has joined
940 2011-09-12 12:23:59 <phantomcircuit> lol maybe i switched the cookies
941 2011-09-12 12:24:28 <epscy> i would be surprised if you could do that, rails isn't that insecure out of the box
942 2011-09-12 12:24:37 <tcatm> phantomcircuit: try again :)
943 2011-09-12 12:24:40 <epscy> but what do i know
944 2011-09-12 12:25:00 asher^ has joined
945 2011-09-12 12:25:43 <lianj> which is the site in question?
946 2011-09-12 12:26:11 <tcatm> bitcoinica
947 2011-09-12 12:26:26 <lianj> ah, hihi
948 2011-09-12 12:26:28 <cande> tcatm: what did you "grep" ?
949 2011-09-12 12:26:58 <cande> tcatm: ok,.. found it :)
950 2011-09-12 12:27:19 <cande> phantomcircuit: i have id 546
951 2011-09-12 12:28:09 <epscy> 547
952 2011-09-12 12:28:15 <epscy> i just signed up
953 2011-09-12 12:28:24 <epscy> feel free to change my email address
954 2011-09-12 12:28:32 <cande> haha yes, one number after me
955 2011-09-12 12:28:33 b4epoche has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
956 2011-09-12 12:28:34 <Tamo> h0h0
957 2011-09-12 12:28:34 <Tamo> I got it
958 2011-09-12 12:29:27 <phantomcircuit> oh boo i mixed up the cookies
959 2011-09-12 12:29:28 <epscy> phantomcircuit: i don't get how you can change other peoples passwords, you need to post their password at the same time no?
960 2011-09-12 12:29:29 <phantomcircuit> lol
961 2011-09-12 12:29:38 <epscy> sorry change other peoples emails
962 2011-09-12 12:29:42 <phantomcircuit> well not exactly
963 2011-09-12 12:29:47 <phantomcircuit> i had a session cookie
964 2011-09-12 12:29:49 <phantomcircuit> logged out
965 2011-09-12 12:30:06 dvide has quit ()
966 2011-09-12 12:30:07 <phantomcircuit> and was still able to change stuff for the account after being logged out using the session cookies but logged in as another user
967 2011-09-12 12:30:09 <phantomcircuit> which is
968 2011-09-12 12:30:11 <phantomcircuit> weird
969 2011-09-12 12:30:25 <cande> phantomcircuit: ah..
970 2011-09-12 12:30:40 agricocb has joined
971 2011-09-12 12:30:42 <phantomcircuit> so uh exploitable exploit?
972 2011-09-12 12:30:43 <phantomcircuit> lol wat
973 2011-09-12 12:30:54 <cande> maybe
974 2011-09-12 12:31:18 <cande> nice catch
975 2011-09-12 12:31:30 <epscy> that is still bad
976 2011-09-12 12:31:42 <epscy> in that you can see other peoples account details
977 2011-09-12 12:32:09 <epscy> but really you shouldn't be doing stuff with bitcoin on a shared computer
978 2011-09-12 12:32:20 <epscy> so all in all i have to say 'meh;
979 2011-09-12 12:34:32 agricocb has quit (Client Quit)
980 2011-09-12 12:34:54 datagutt has joined
981 2011-09-12 12:34:56 iddo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
982 2011-09-12 12:37:58 <phantomcircuit> i will give them this
983 2011-09-12 12:38:13 <phantomcircuit> they detected the insane market move on mtgox and didn't move their spot in unison
984 2011-09-12 12:38:55 normanrichards has quit (Quit: normanrichards)
985 2011-09-12 12:41:38 p0s has joined
986 2011-09-12 12:41:40 caedes has joined
987 2011-09-12 12:46:59 Leo_II has joined
988 2011-09-12 12:48:38 <Leo_II> anybody here responsible for bitcointalk? Theymos anybody? Stating "email me if you have trouble" but not revealing his mail address is a bit annoying. can't login and recovery does not work neither.
989 2011-09-12 12:49:17 caedes has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
990 2011-09-12 12:51:23 noagendamarket has quit (Quit: Leaving)
991 2011-09-12 12:53:10 <epscy> phantomcircuit: i imagine the dude is guarding against stuff like that, cos i assume he could potentially lose in a big way from such a fuck up
992 2011-09-12 12:57:26 <phantomcircuit> never underestimate the stupidity of people
993 2011-09-12 12:57:28 <phantomcircuit> ever
994 2011-09-12 12:58:07 <UukGoblin> yeah what happened there on mtgox?
995 2011-09-12 12:58:16 <UukGoblin> it kinda jumped from 5 to 7 on sunday, right?
996 2011-09-12 12:58:23 <alexwaters> kinda
997 2011-09-12 12:58:52 <phantomcircuit> and then 16
998 2011-09-12 12:58:55 <phantomcircuit> but then not 16
999 2011-09-12 12:58:58 <phantomcircuit> and then 12
1000 2011-09-12 12:59:00 <phantomcircuit> and still 12
1001 2011-09-12 12:59:04 <alexwaters> definitely sketchy, because people's sell orders didn't get filled
1002 2011-09-12 12:59:05 <phantomcircuit> but not *really* 12
1003 2011-09-12 12:59:23 <alexwaters> so people think they either did something weird, or their reporting was somehow on the fritz
1004 2011-09-12 12:59:49 <UukGoblin> ah
1005 2011-09-12 12:59:52 <UukGoblin> like, again
1006 2011-09-12 13:00:22 <alexwaters> like I had a sell at 11 that didn't get filled...
1007 2011-09-12 13:02:48 <UukGoblin> weird indeed
1008 2011-09-12 13:02:48 b4epoche has joined
1009 2011-09-12 13:04:01 b4epoche_ has joined
1010 2011-09-12 13:04:41 cande has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1011 2011-09-12 13:05:02 glitch-mod has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1012 2011-09-12 13:06:25 <alexwaters> so when the src builds, does it create the .bitcoin folder? or does that happen when the client is started/
1013 2011-09-12 13:07:06 <SomeoneWeird> when the client is started
1014 2011-09-12 13:07:27 <alexwaters> ok cool - and the blockchain is stored in the __db files I guess?
1015 2011-09-12 13:07:46 <log0s> 30 minutes ago: <@MagicalTux> xbayrockx: major issues include some bugs in the trade engine which allowed outside of spread order execution, and implementation of stop/market/iceberg
1016 2011-09-12 13:08:21 <alexwaters> i'm trying to reset the blockchain download...
1017 2011-09-12 13:08:28 <alexwaters> to start at the beginning
1018 2011-09-12 13:09:21 <SomeoneWeird> alexwaters, delete blkindex.dat and blk0001.dat
1019 2011-09-12 13:09:26 <SomeoneWeird> backup wallet.dat first though
1020 2011-09-12 13:09:29 <SomeoneWeird> just to be safe
1021 2011-09-12 13:09:30 <SomeoneWeird> :)
1022 2011-09-12 13:09:31 <alexwaters> ok excellent - thanks
1023 2011-09-12 13:09:39 <phantomcircuit> ...
1024 2011-09-12 13:09:43 <alexwaters> i don't need it, just deleted everything =P
1025 2011-09-12 13:09:44 <phantomcircuit> dont delete wallet.dat
1026 2011-09-12 13:09:57 <alexwaters> haha, it's on a VM - just doing tests
1027 2011-09-12 13:10:05 MUILTFN has joined
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1029 2011-09-12 13:10:27 slush has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1030 2011-09-12 13:12:06 Titeuf_87 has joined
1031 2011-09-12 13:12:10 drazak has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1032 2011-09-12 13:12:19 <SomeoneWeird> you just deleted all your coins then alexwaters :p
1033 2011-09-12 13:12:21 agricocb has joined
1034 2011-09-12 13:12:52 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r503770f / (lib/connection.js lib/schema/transaction.js lib/settings.js):
1035 2011-09-12 13:12:52 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Database schema for txin/txout simplified.
1036 2011-09-12 13:12:52 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Major database space savings.
1037 2011-09-12 13:12:52 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Fixes #32. - http://git.io/xH2C0g
1038 2011-09-12 13:13:07 drazak has joined
1039 2011-09-12 13:13:13 lfm has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1040 2011-09-12 13:14:46 lfm has joined
1041 2011-09-12 13:16:30 piuk has joined
1042 2011-09-12 13:17:27 Tim7 has quit ()
1043 2011-09-12 13:17:54 ThomasV_ has joined
1044 2011-09-12 13:19:36 gavinandresen has joined
1045 2011-09-12 13:19:47 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
1046 2011-09-12 13:19:48 <piuk> If the protocol description a version message is stated as having addresses 26 bytes each. But it the "Network address" section addresses are listed as 30 bytes? Anyone know which is correct?
1047 2011-09-12 13:21:57 erle- has quit (Quit: CETERVMÂAVTEMÂCENSEOÂCVTTENBERCÂESSEÂDELENDVM)
1048 2011-09-12 13:26:53 huk has quit ()
1049 2011-09-12 13:27:06 normanrichards has joined
1050 2011-09-12 13:28:56 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1051 2011-09-12 13:29:26 <piuk> A client is sending me a version number of 32400 but is not prefixing the the address with a 4 byte time
1052 2011-09-12 13:30:45 <lianj> thats right
1053 2011-09-12 13:30:58 <log0s> piuk: addresses are not prefixed with a timestamp in the version message
1054 2011-09-12 13:31:41 <piuk> ok, thanks, that should be clarified on the wiki page
1055 2011-09-12 13:32:13 <gavinandresen> ... you mean, "I'll go clarify that on the wiki page." ?
1056 2011-09-12 13:32:25 <lianj> you can see it in the hexdump of version pkt on that page
1057 2011-09-12 13:33:21 <phantomcircuit> lol
1058 2011-09-12 13:33:30 <phantomcircuit> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=43480.0;all
1059 2011-09-12 13:33:35 <phantomcircuit> anybody care to weigh in on this?
1060 2011-09-12 13:33:37 MUILTFN has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1061 2011-09-12 13:36:05 b4epoche has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1062 2011-09-12 13:36:05 b4epoche_ is now known as b4epoche
1063 2011-09-12 13:36:38 karnac has joined
1064 2011-09-12 13:37:11 BitterTea has joined
1065 2011-09-12 13:37:50 <BitterTea> Any bitcoinj contributors around?
1066 2011-09-12 13:38:43 <BitterTea> I'm wondering how I can contribute improvements
1067 2011-09-12 13:39:34 MUILTFN has joined
1068 2011-09-12 13:40:07 <epscy> phantomcircuit: i think this guy seems to know what he is doing...
1069 2011-09-12 13:40:08 pickett__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1070 2011-09-12 13:40:09 <alexwaters> gavinandresen: ok I tested the original client to 99k (1h:15m) - and this one is up to 70k(30m). There's definitely a substantial speed improvement. At 30m it's a 10% gain
1071 2011-09-12 13:40:46 <alexwaters> the 70k-99k blocks are much heavier apparently...
1072 2011-09-12 13:40:52 <gavinandresen> alexwaters: yup, they are
1073 2011-09-12 13:43:28 <phantomcircuit> ephcon, "My registered agent didn't mention anything about age requirement, mainly because registration in Delaware is anonymous."
1074 2011-09-12 13:43:32 <alexwaters> gavinandresen: is network variance a concern if this whole time i've had over 1mbs bandwidth, and consistent latency?
1075 2011-09-12 13:43:38 <phantomcircuit> epscy, i believe that to be false
1076 2011-09-12 13:43:53 glitch-mod has joined
1077 2011-09-12 13:43:58 <phantomcircuit> no it is possible nvm
1078 2011-09-12 13:46:46 b4epoche_ has joined
1079 2011-09-12 13:46:49 <gavinandresen> alexwaters: do you know if you're downloading from the same peer every test? It is THEIR connection that would add variance
1080 2011-09-12 13:47:26 <alexwaters> i don't know - i'll retest
1081 2011-09-12 13:48:12 <gavinandresen> sorry, I should've followed my own rules and given a thumnail test plan in the pull....
1082 2011-09-12 13:48:24 glitch-mod has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1083 2011-09-12 13:48:31 Leo_II has left ()
1084 2011-09-12 13:48:46 <alexwaters> gavinandresen: no problem - there might be something to gain from seeing the effect of the network variance in general
1085 2011-09-12 13:48:58 <gavinandresen> true
1086 2011-09-12 13:49:08 TheAncientGoat has joined
1087 2011-09-12 13:49:56 b4epoche_ has quit (Client Quit)
1088 2011-09-12 13:52:15 <log0s> phantomcircuit: last i knew delaware and nevada are both pretty popular u.s. states to create businesses in, one of the reasons being that they don't require much information about the person creating the business
1089 2011-09-12 13:52:48 <phantomcircuit> delaware is popular because they have like 0 corporate tax
1090 2011-09-12 13:55:17 zeiris has joined
1091 2011-09-12 13:55:46 <kjj> Nevada is also zero corporate tax
1092 2011-09-12 13:55:58 <alexwaters> phantomcircuit: definitely research that. Depending on the type of corporation your are opening, that advantage may not still exist. Many states have reformed their tax laws so that those benefits no longer exist if your corporation does business in their state. In NY, it might actually cost you more money to register your LLC elsewhere. Definitely check with a lawyer...
1093 2011-09-12 13:56:28 <phantomcircuit> yeah im aware
1094 2011-09-12 13:56:57 <alexwaters> but yeah, delaware - nevada - and florida were the popular ones afaik. Maybe for S/C corps you can still get away with that
1095 2011-09-12 13:57:02 <kjj> for online stuff, Nevada is the way to go. you just need to make sure that your nexus is well established
1096 2011-09-12 13:57:32 TheAncientGoat has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
1097 2011-09-12 13:57:50 TheAncientGoat has joined
1098 2011-09-12 13:58:29 <epscy> so the creator of bitcoinica is in singapore and he created a business in delaware?
1099 2011-09-12 13:58:48 <phantomcircuit> yes
1100 2011-09-12 13:58:52 m00p has joined
1101 2011-09-12 13:58:58 <kjj> that reminds me. I need to do my corporate filing in the next few weeks
1102 2011-09-12 13:59:04 <phantomcircuit> and has as much volume as mtgox with ~550 users apparently
1103 2011-09-12 13:59:08 * phantomcircuit rolls eyes
1104 2011-09-12 13:59:17 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1105 2011-09-12 13:59:27 <alexwaters> phantomcircuit: lol yeah - I think it smells a little fishy
1106 2011-09-12 13:59:35 amtal has joined
1107 2011-09-12 13:59:39 egecko has quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
1108 2011-09-12 13:59:43 copumpkin has joined
1109 2011-09-12 13:59:49 <epscy> phantomcircuit: he is probably just incrementing a random value somewhere by mistake
1110 2011-09-12 13:59:51 <alexwaters> phantomcircuit: if I had 10,000 bitcoins, I could keep trading it between my accounts to have "the most volume"
1111 2011-09-12 13:59:51 <kjj> Delaware is popular with foreign operations. I don't remember why
1112 2011-09-12 14:00:00 bstation has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1113 2011-09-12 14:00:17 <phantomcircuit> alexwaters, i could trivially make britcoin the largest exchange by volume
1114 2011-09-12 14:00:32 <phantomcircuit> i have 1 BTC and 1 GBP for testing (which are actually mine btw!)
1115 2011-09-12 14:00:39 glitch-mod has joined
1116 2011-09-12 14:00:46 <phantomcircuit> could trivially trade them back and forth
1117 2011-09-12 14:00:57 <phantomcircuit> although it could only be once per minute
1118 2011-09-12 14:01:55 <phantomcircuit> but yeah it's silly
1119 2011-09-12 14:02:30 <phantomcircuit> kjj, most client services businesses do delaware by default because they're setup for it
1120 2011-09-12 14:02:31 <epscy> ok so it could just be him trying to inflate his stats
1121 2011-09-12 14:02:47 <epscy> perhaps a little unethical
1122 2011-09-12 14:02:53 <phantomcircuit> im pretty sure it is
1123 2011-09-12 14:02:55 <epscy> but hardly a major crime
1124 2011-09-12 14:02:56 zamgo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1125 2011-09-12 14:03:13 <phantomcircuit> no but reason enough not to trust him
1126 2011-09-12 14:03:23 <imsaguy2> technically speaking, if you are transfering 2 coins back and forth, that is volume.
1127 2011-09-12 14:03:57 malaimo has joined
1128 2011-09-12 14:04:09 <xelister> phantomcircuit: except you pay for commision
1129 2011-09-12 14:04:31 <phantomcircuit> xelister, ?
1130 2011-09-12 14:05:08 <xelister> phantomcircuit: when trading 1 btc back and forth on an exchange to fake volume
1131 2011-09-12 14:05:48 <phantomcircuit> there is no commission on britcoin
1132 2011-09-12 14:05:51 <alexwaters> xelister: not when you own the exchange... you just pay the transaction fee. which is probable negligible if you own an exchange
1133 2011-09-12 14:06:17 <phantomcircuit> lol the UK banks are broken
1134 2011-09-12 14:06:17 <xelister> oh
1135 2011-09-12 14:06:20 <xelister> well yra
1136 2011-09-12 14:06:22 <xelister> yea
1137 2011-09-12 14:06:58 <phantomcircuit> we've been seeing massive delays on transfers that usually take 20 minutes
1138 2011-09-12 14:08:47 flok has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1139 2011-09-12 14:09:22 sytse has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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1141 2011-09-12 14:17:54 flok has joined
1142 2011-09-12 14:20:13 <ThomasV_> anyone familiar with pywallet here ? or python-ecdsa ?
1143 2011-09-12 14:20:46 x11 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1144 2011-09-12 14:20:52 x11 has joined
1145 2011-09-12 14:25:33 ephcon has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1146 2011-09-12 14:26:16 sytse has joined
1147 2011-09-12 14:26:23 <ThomasV_> how do I convert a public key into a point(x,y) used by ecdsa ?
1148 2011-09-12 14:27:09 <ThomasV_> gavinandresen: perhaps you know ? ^^
1149 2011-09-12 14:27:47 <edcba> maths
1150 2011-09-12 14:28:03 <gavinandresen> I dunno. Un-DER-encode it, which I think means just stripping off the first byte. But I'm probably mis-remembering
1151 2011-09-12 14:28:25 <gavinandresen> (assuming you mean public key, not bitcoin address)
1152 2011-09-12 14:28:32 <ThomasV_> I mean public key
1153 2011-09-12 14:28:37 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
1154 2011-09-12 14:29:00 <gavinandresen> afk a while
1155 2011-09-12 14:29:23 karnac has joined
1156 2011-09-12 14:30:06 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1157 2011-09-12 14:30:29 <MagicalTux> ThomasV_: the corrdinates are the two 32 bytes value after the 0x04
1158 2011-09-12 14:30:45 <ThomasV_> 32 bytes ?
1159 2011-09-12 14:30:54 <upb> get a der-asn1 decoder ?:P
1160 2011-09-12 14:31:07 <ThomasV_> oh bytes not bits :-)
1161 2011-09-12 14:31:34 <MagicalTux> ThomasV_: yep, bytes
1162 2011-09-12 14:31:40 <MagicalTux> that's 256bits
1163 2011-09-12 14:31:54 <MagicalTux> hence the "ECDSA 256bits"
1164 2011-09-12 14:32:08 <ThomasV_> ok let me try
1165 2011-09-12 14:35:04 Joric has joined
1166 2011-09-12 14:36:42 <ThomasV_> MagicalTux: thanks, it works!
1167 2011-09-12 14:37:09 <MagicalTux> np
1168 2011-09-12 14:37:27 <MagicalTux> I had to fight this a bit when I implemented QBitcoin (I'll finish it, one day, probably in 2011)
1169 2011-09-12 14:38:06 <jgarzik> MagicalTux: bitcoin-qt is ready for merging, FWIW
1170 2011-09-12 14:38:22 <MagicalTux> jgarzik: bitcoin-qt is only a change in gui, not much in backend
1171 2011-09-12 14:38:27 <jgarzik> MagicalTux: nod
1172 2011-09-12 14:38:51 Baksch has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1173 2011-09-12 14:38:53 <MagicalTux> it's still good to have a Qt frontend, it'll be easier to use and hopefully a bit more portable
1174 2011-09-12 14:39:00 <epscy> i am still waiting for the lisp implementation of bitcoin
1175 2011-09-12 14:41:52 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: where are we at with release engineering 0.4 rc 2 ? I put up an OSX .dmg image on github as an experiment... (happy with experiment so far)
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1185 2011-09-12 14:59:18 <k9quaint> epscy: I toyed with the idea of implementing bitcoin in lisp
1186 2011-09-12 14:59:43 <k9quaint> but I hate re-implementing things that don't need to be
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1197 2011-09-12 15:07:19 <AnnihilaT> Table './bitcoin/smf_sessions' is marked as crashed and should be repaired
1198 2011-09-12 15:07:32 <AnnihilaT> MagicalTux: yer forum is down
1199 2011-09-12 15:07:56 <AnnihilaT> again
1200 2011-09-12 15:08:48 <Graet> he knows
1201 2011-09-12 15:08:55 <Graet> its being worked on
1202 2011-09-12 15:09:07 <Graet> and its not actually "his"
1203 2011-09-12 15:09:49 Akinava is now known as Akinava|away
1204 2011-09-12 15:11:18 <MagicalTux> AnnihilaT: it's already fixed
1205 2011-09-12 15:11:41 Akinava has quit (away!~lis@pff.eltel.net|Quit: Akinava|away)
1206 2011-09-12 15:11:55 <MagicalTux> looks like someone managed to get the VPS to run out of ram by attacking the forums in some way, I've increased ram and will urge the ddos protection to be ready faster
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1209 2011-09-12 15:12:46 <phantomcircuit> MagicalTux, lol move sessions out of mysql
1210 2011-09-12 15:12:50 <phantomcircuit> that's just fucktarded
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1212 2011-09-12 15:13:07 <MagicalTux> phantomcircuit: I'm not responsible for the software used by bitcointalk, ask theymos
1213 2011-09-12 15:13:09 <MagicalTux> or sirius
1214 2011-09-12 15:13:24 <MagicalTux> I admin the VPS and ensure it works
1215 2011-09-12 15:16:01 <phantomcircuit> cool beans
1216 2011-09-12 15:16:51 <MagicalTux> and when it doesn't, I fix it
1217 2011-09-12 15:17:01 <kinlo> MagicalTux: is bitcointalk also behind the ddos protection?
1218 2011-09-12 15:17:13 <MagicalTux> kinlo: soon, I'm waiting for them to set it up
1219 2011-09-12 15:17:37 <kinlo> ic
1220 2011-09-12 15:19:31 <kinlo> MagicalTux: how much does it cost, if I may ask such a question? :)
1221 2011-09-12 15:19:57 <MagicalTux> kinlo: a bit more than $10k/month
1222 2011-09-12 15:20:14 <SomeoneWeird> 0.o
1223 2011-09-12 15:20:19 <kinlo> MagicalTux: but you can host multiple sites under the same contract I presume?
1224 2011-09-12 15:20:25 <MagicalTux> kinlo: yep
1225 2011-09-12 15:21:07 <phantomcircuit> 10k/month buys a fucking shit ton of servers...
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1227 2011-09-12 15:21:19 <ThomasV_> MagicalTux: is it also common practice to encode the signature similarly? 0x04 + r + s ?
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1229 2011-09-12 15:21:48 <kinlo> phantomcircuit: yeah, butdon't forget 10K/month doesn't buy you that much.... you need maintenance etc, you need them acros the globe....
1230 2011-09-12 15:21:49 <MagicalTux> ThomasV: yep
1231 2011-09-12 15:22:00 <kinlo> I don't think $10K is that much for such a service
1232 2011-09-12 15:22:20 <MagicalTux> phantomcircuit: 10k/month don't buy many servers that can handle 150Gbps of synflood (with the uplink too)
1233 2011-09-12 15:22:21 wardearia has joined
1234 2011-09-12 15:22:58 <phantomcircuit> MagicalTux, lol you were getting 150 gbps syn floods?
1235 2011-09-12 15:23:02 <phantomcircuit> that's fucking hilarious
1236 2011-09-12 15:23:09 <kinlo> you need a lot of infrastructure to handle that crap :)
1237 2011-09-12 15:23:11 <phantomcircuit> some mad russians
1238 2011-09-12 15:23:19 <MagicalTux> phantomcircuit: nope, but we were starting to get attacks at a point our provider didn't want to cover
1239 2011-09-12 15:23:24 <MagicalTux> (ie. over 10Gbps)
1240 2011-09-12 15:23:33 <kinlo> phantomcircuit: the point is, such a service protects you :)
1241 2011-09-12 15:23:50 <phantomcircuit> yes im aware i know people who do ddos protection for a living
1242 2011-09-12 15:24:00 <phantomcircuit> and they're better at it than prolexic lol
1243 2011-09-12 15:24:29 <MagicalTux> phantomcircuit: I tried different alternatives
1244 2011-09-12 15:24:46 <phantomcircuit> the secret sauce is to distribute the application so that you can simply scale out more web servers
1245 2011-09-12 15:24:48 <MagicalTux> one I didn't try is verisign, because they kept spamming me each time "mtgox" and "ddos" triggered a google alert
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1247 2011-09-12 15:24:53 <phantomcircuit> worst case they kill one ip
1248 2011-09-12 15:25:07 <MagicalTux> cloudflare rejected us even before we could install anything
1249 2011-09-12 15:25:08 <phantomcircuit> hell they kill a dozen
1250 2011-09-12 15:25:10 <phantomcircuit> who cares
1251 2011-09-12 15:25:33 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: that requires a functional site design that doesn't rely on a monolithic mysql db
1252 2011-09-12 15:25:36 <jrmithdobbs> ;p
1253 2011-09-12 15:25:52 <phantomcircuit> you can do it with a monolithic db if you're careful
1254 2011-09-12 15:26:26 <alexwaters> http://www.coralcdn.org/ might be able to help
1255 2011-09-12 15:26:31 <phantomcircuit> hell i saw someone accidentally lauch a 10 GB/s ddos before
1256 2011-09-12 15:26:33 <alexwaters> with the DDOS stuff
1257 2011-09-12 15:26:36 <phantomcircuit> (yeah that's not a typo)
1258 2011-09-12 15:27:01 <MagicalTux> actually mtgox is made to be able to work with multiple frontends. The tricky part may be the locking of wallets to avoid a single user from withdrawing the same funds multiple times at the same time
1259 2011-09-12 15:27:10 <AnnihilaT> [17:03] <MagicalTux> looks like someone managed to get the VPS to run out of ram by attacking the forums in some way
1260 2011-09-12 15:27:12 <AnnihilaT> er
1261 2011-09-12 15:27:21 <AnnihilaT> what makes you assume its an attack ?
1262 2011-09-12 15:27:26 <AnnihilaT> maybe they just got busy ?
1263 2011-09-12 15:27:34 <jrmithdobbs> MagicalTux: so it's designed to work with multiple frontends except the parts that would be hand to do with multiple frontends
1264 2011-09-12 15:27:40 <MagicalTux> AnnihilaT: the anormal suddent load peak, maybe
1265 2011-09-12 15:27:40 <jrmithdobbs> s/hand/hard/
1266 2011-09-12 15:27:43 <AnnihilaT> why does everyone always start yelling attack whenever they run a busy web service
1267 2011-09-12 15:27:51 <MagicalTux> jrmithdobbs: yep, until I can find a solution for those parts
1268 2011-09-12 15:27:53 <AnnihilaT> ahh ok
1269 2011-09-12 15:28:01 <phantomcircuit> lol
1270 2011-09-12 15:28:02 <MagicalTux> been working on this in my spare time
1271 2011-09-12 15:28:03 <jrmithdobbs> MagicalTux: your sarcasm detector is broken fyi
1272 2011-09-12 15:28:15 <phantomcircuit> intersango.com can scale horizontally to match load
1273 2011-09-12 15:28:19 <phantomcircuit> like a boss
1274 2011-09-12 15:28:24 <phantomcircuit> :P
1275 2011-09-12 15:28:37 * phantomcircuit continues exchange-measuring contest
1276 2011-09-12 15:29:00 <AnnihilaT> anyone looked at the inside of bitcoinica yet ?
1277 2011-09-12 15:29:11 <AnnihilaT> does it look secure and is it worth checking out ?
1278 2011-09-12 15:29:17 <phantomcircuit> it's a RoR application with 1 controller named home
1279 2011-09-12 15:29:23 <AnnihilaT> heh
1280 2011-09-12 15:31:04 <AnnihilaT> and thats all there is to say about it ?
1281 2011-09-12 15:32:04 <phantomcircuit> it's the kind of thing that im sure is insecure but cant figure out why
1282 2011-09-12 15:32:19 <phantomcircuit> although im sure someone who has a more indepth knowledge of ror will be able to exploit something
1283 2011-09-12 15:32:41 <jrmithdobbs> ror's defaults are actually pretty sane/secure so long as nothing is fucked up horribly
1284 2011-09-12 15:33:06 <xelister> btw
1285 2011-09-12 15:33:16 <xelister> friends are making a new exchange
1286 2011-09-12 15:33:24 <xelister> oriented for security
1287 2011-09-12 15:33:35 <xelister> what would you like most in an btc exchange?
1288 2011-09-12 15:33:54 <phantomcircuit> pretty colors
1289 2011-09-12 15:33:57 <phantomcircuit> and lots of flash
1290 2011-09-12 15:34:01 <phantomcircuit> hehe
1291 2011-09-12 15:34:04 <edcba> and ajax
1292 2011-09-12 15:34:08 <ThomasV_> cosby
1293 2011-09-12 15:34:17 <jrmithdobbs> ^
1294 2011-09-12 15:34:33 <xelister> ok that is most of the lists of things to avoid =)
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1296 2011-09-12 15:34:45 <xelister> any request of feautures that would be really important but are missing from others?
1297 2011-09-12 15:34:50 <edcba> in fact everything that would make a nightmare security-wise
1298 2011-09-12 15:34:56 <imsaguy2> I personally enjoy xss vulnerabilities in my exchanges
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1302 2011-09-12 15:35:05 <jrmithdobbs> imsaguy2: needs more csrf
1303 2011-09-12 15:35:15 * xelister audits imsaguy2
1304 2011-09-12 15:35:19 <jrmithdobbs> so that we can easily trade through other's accounts!
1305 2011-09-12 15:35:21 <xelister> with a cactus
1306 2011-09-12 15:35:27 <imsaguy2> jrmithdobbs, its cheaper that way
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1308 2011-09-12 15:35:39 <jrmithdobbs> yes exactly
1309 2011-09-12 15:35:43 <edcba> oh yes i like when my password is limited to 4 chars
1310 2011-09-12 15:35:57 <edcba> digits only
1311 2011-09-12 15:36:05 <edcba> as secure as my credit card !
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1313 2011-09-12 15:36:27 <imsaguy2> edcba, I think its better if you just pick heads or tails
1314 2011-09-12 15:36:40 <imsaguy2> no one ever guesses tails
1315 2011-09-12 15:37:14 <da2ce7> xelister, I think that a sexy extange would use pgp certifcates for deposits.
1316 2011-09-12 15:37:25 <da2ce7> and give you singed responces for any trade.
1317 2011-09-12 15:37:30 <xelister> da2ce7: you know it bro
1318 2011-09-12 15:37:34 <da2ce7> *just sanying*
1319 2011-09-12 15:37:35 <xelister> it's obvious for me :)
1320 2011-09-12 15:38:01 <edcba> da2ce7: maybe we could have a special software to communicate with that exchange !
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1322 2011-09-12 15:38:12 <edcba> and the software would act as a wallet
1323 2011-09-12 15:38:22 <xelister> edcba: ok we could call it say
1324 2011-09-12 15:38:22 <AnnihilaT> are there any actual bitcoin devs alive ?
1325 2011-09-12 15:38:26 <xelister> "open transactions"
1326 2011-09-12 15:38:29 <xelister> edcba: good idea?
1327 2011-09-12 15:38:34 <edcba> yes !
1328 2011-09-12 15:38:35 <da2ce7> edcba, sure... everyone would like have their own server that communcates with every other server...
1329 2011-09-12 15:38:41 <xelister> da2ce7: I like edcba idea :}
1330 2011-09-12 15:38:44 * xelister trolo
1331 2011-09-12 15:38:44 <da2ce7> awww
1332 2011-09-12 15:39:06 <xelister> edcba: hint, google this name :)
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1334 2011-09-12 15:39:29 <AnnihilaT> why does the daemon never try to reconnect a peer it loses which is specified in its conf file unless you restart the daemon, and furthur why does it die when you send it a SIGHUP ?
1335 2011-09-12 15:39:53 <AnnihilaT> either ignore it
1336 2011-09-12 15:39:57 <AnnihilaT> or honor it properly
1337 2011-09-12 15:40:01 <AnnihilaT> but dont just fucking die!
1338 2011-09-12 15:40:03 <AnnihilaT> geez!
1339 2011-09-12 15:40:04 <da2ce7> lol
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1346 2011-09-12 15:46:45 <da2ce7> xelister have you seen the pgp login system that I have commisoned (thanks to chris): https://github.com/chrisacheson/djangpg
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1352 2011-09-12 15:52:16 <xelister> I did not yet
1353 2011-09-12 15:52:28 * xelister adds to TODO
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1393 2011-09-12 17:00:20 <epscy> ;;bc;stats
1394 2011-09-12 17:00:20 <gribble> Error: "bc;stats" is not a valid command.
1395 2011-09-12 17:03:04 <epscy> ;;bc,stats
1396 2011-09-12 17:03:06 <gribble> Current Blocks: 145051 | Current Difficulty: 1777774.4820015 | Next Difficulty At Block: 145151 | Next Difficulty In: 100 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 17 hours, 15 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1754506.52666718
1397 2011-09-12 17:03:20 <epscy> difficulty drop again
1398 2011-09-12 17:03:23 <epscy> interesting
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1425 2011-09-12 17:45:03 <semb> does anyone know about transactions with future locktimes and updates?
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1430 2011-09-12 17:47:06 <semb> if i have a pending transaction with a future locktime, does it prevent the input being double spent? (I assume not)?
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1432 2011-09-12 17:49:34 <Diablo-D3> LOL
1433 2011-09-12 17:49:39 <Diablo-D3> someone just tried to phish me on mtgox
1434 2011-09-12 17:49:40 <Diablo-D3> LOL
1435 2011-09-12 17:49:55 <BlueMatt> Ive seen another couple of those...
1436 2011-09-12 17:50:04 <da2ce7> Diablo-D3, did you need to reset you passowrd ?
1437 2011-09-12 17:50:11 <da2ce7> lol
1438 2011-09-12 17:51:35 <Diablo-D3> da2ce7: no.
1439 2011-09-12 17:51:38 <Diablo-D3> I reset it anyhow though
1440 2011-09-12 17:51:52 <Diablo-D3> dunno if mtgox has had another db leak
1441 2011-09-12 17:52:12 <Diablo-D3> huh
1442 2011-09-12 17:52:17 <da2ce7> ahh... I got one of those ybisi key things
1443 2011-09-12 17:52:19 <Diablo-D3> there seems to be a break in
1444 2011-09-12 17:52:26 <Diablo-D3> someone go wake MagicalTux
1445 2011-09-12 17:52:54 <neofutur> ?
1446 2011-09-12 17:52:56 <da2ce7> Diablo-D3, prob just an you email from a old leak.
1447 2011-09-12 17:53:14 <Diablo-D3> someone just used my account to buy btc and widthdraw them to a foreign address
1448 2011-09-12 17:53:28 <edcba> lol
1449 2011-09-12 17:53:44 <Diablo-D3> why the fuck cant MagicalTux keep his shit secure?
1450 2011-09-12 17:53:55 <edcba> because he is a noob ?
1451 2011-09-12 17:53:58 <gjs278> he's a nigg0r
1452 2011-09-12 17:54:06 <da2ce7> Diablo-D3, just now?
1453 2011-09-12 17:54:07 <cjdelisle> O_O
1454 2011-09-12 17:54:07 marf_away has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1455 2011-09-12 17:54:12 <Diablo-D3> IP: 46.250.12.63
1456 2011-09-12 17:54:12 <edcba> because he didn't clean his box after first incident ?
1457 2011-09-12 17:54:23 <neofutur> Diablo-D3: youclicked the link in the phishing email ?
1458 2011-09-12 17:54:25 <Diablo-D3> whoever that is, feel free to rape him
1459 2011-09-12 17:54:29 <Diablo-D3> neofutur: nope
1460 2011-09-12 17:54:36 <Diablo-D3> infact I was about to forward it to magictux
1461 2011-09-12 17:54:48 <neofutur> "blocked account" phishing email ?
1462 2011-09-12 17:54:48 <edcba> ukraine ip
1463 2011-09-12 17:54:54 <Diablo-D3> neofutur: yup
1464 2011-09-12 17:55:06 <neofutur> many peoiple received it, its known
1465 2011-09-12 17:55:20 <neofutur> but theres no known security problem on mtgoxright now afaik
1466 2011-09-12 17:55:28 <Diablo-D3> neofutur: well there is now.
1467 2011-09-12 17:55:37 <Diablo-D3> and MagicalTux better fix it.
1468 2011-09-12 17:55:43 <neofutur> well, not if youre the only one . . .
1469 2011-09-12 17:55:48 <edcba> did you change your password recently ?
1470 2011-09-12 17:56:02 <neofutur> and for now youare
1471 2011-09-12 17:56:04 <edcba> do you share your password with another service ?
1472 2011-09-12 17:56:10 <edcba> is your computer secure ? :)
1473 2011-09-12 17:56:20 <Diablo-D3> edcba: your questions are nonsensical.
1474 2011-09-12 17:56:27 <edcba> really ?
1475 2011-09-12 17:56:36 <Diablo-D3> [01:47:19] <edcba> do you share your password with another service ?
1476 2011-09-12 17:56:39 <neofutur> Diablo-D3: edcba questions are intelligent
1477 2011-09-12 17:56:41 <Diablo-D3> how do you share passwords?
1478 2011-09-12 17:56:47 <neofutur> same password as on the forums ?
1479 2011-09-12 17:56:55 <edcba> the same way you share files
1480 2011-09-12 17:57:05 <Diablo-D3> its not a password if other services use it, now is it?
1481 2011-09-12 17:57:18 <da2ce7> Diablo-D3, your computer is secure, you use strong differernt passwords for every user account?
1482 2011-09-12 17:57:23 <Diablo-D3> silly noob.
1483 2011-09-12 17:57:42 <Diablo-D3> da2ce7: my computer doesnt get any more secure.
1484 2011-09-12 17:58:20 <da2ce7> Well... as the passwords are now hashed... your account dosn't seem like a first choice.
1485 2011-09-12 17:58:40 <Diablo-D3> da2ce7: it does because Im a bitcoin developer.
1486 2011-09-12 17:58:49 <Cokein> Diablo-D3: after bitcointalk hacking is possible that your password was broken ?!
1487 2011-09-12 17:59:02 <da2ce7> unless it is some other random attack... well then we are not seeing large volume on gox so not _that_ much USD is being sold.
1488 2011-09-12 17:59:03 <Cokein> they also got email address
1489 2011-09-12 17:59:11 <Cokein> the can login into mtgox with your password
1490 2011-09-12 17:59:29 <Cokein> if was the same or similar
1491 2011-09-12 17:59:47 <Diablo-D3> Cokein: sure, on the forum.
1492 2011-09-12 17:59:55 <Cokein> i have changed ALL the password with 125bit entropy random pass
1493 2011-09-12 18:00:06 <Diablo-D3> but you do realize I use high entropy passwords, right?
1494 2011-09-12 18:00:18 <Cokein> so
1495 2011-09-12 18:00:31 <Cokein> if the password was similar, STILL the same
1496 2011-09-12 18:00:42 <Cokein> maybe the hashing was poorer than we are aware of
1497 2011-09-12 18:00:44 <Diablo-D3> Cokein: you fail at reading comprehension
1498 2011-09-12 18:00:54 <cjdelisle> I think this warrants a little bit of investigation. I would chock it up to torjan/phishing/passwd-reuse but Diablo-D3 does not strike me as a guy to fall for something like that. If I were at on gox mountain, I'd be watching logs scroll real closely right now.
1499 2011-09-12 18:00:54 <da2ce7> Cokein, I use 5 to 6 words that are easy to remember, In case I need to get into the account without using copy-paste.
1500 2011-09-12 18:01:29 <da2ce7> ya
1501 2011-09-12 18:01:33 <da2ce7> +1 cjdelisle
1502 2011-09-12 18:01:37 <Cokein> Diablo-D3: until they not hack my account, i FAIL nothing ;)
1503 2011-09-12 18:01:49 <Cokein> sorry bro :)
1504 2011-09-12 18:02:09 <Diablo-D3> Cokein: high entropy does not mean "use the same password everywhere"
1505 2011-09-12 18:02:46 <Cokein> indee. i told you IF the two password was similar
1506 2011-09-12 18:03:01 <Cokein> if not, so another problem
1507 2011-09-12 18:03:01 <Diablo-D3> you said that after I said I use high entropy passwords.
1508 2011-09-12 18:03:16 <phantomcircuit> this shit is fucking comical
1509 2011-09-12 18:03:35 <Cokein> Cokein the can login into mtgox with your password
1510 2011-09-12 18:03:35 <phantomcircuit> just an fyi
1511 2011-09-12 18:03:36 <Cokein> Cokein if was the same or similar
1512 2011-09-12 18:03:38 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: if you think its comical, then YOU replace the $60.
1513 2011-09-12 18:03:38 <Cokein> Diablo-D3 Cokein: sure, on the forum.
1514 2011-09-12 18:03:39 <Cokein> Cokein i have changed ALL the password with 125bit entropy random pass
1515 2011-09-12 18:03:41 <Cokein> Diablo-D3 but you do realize I use high entropy passwords, right?
1516 2011-09-12 18:03:41 <phantomcircuit> 46.250.12.63 is ukraine
1517 2011-09-12 18:03:52 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, lol it's almost funny enough
1518 2011-09-12 18:04:05 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, the fuck you have money on mtgox anyways?
1519 2011-09-12 18:04:26 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: didnt transfer it out yet because Im waiting for dwolla to do my account
1520 2011-09-12 18:04:33 <Cokein> Diablo-D3: luckly that bitcoin had so poor value.. :)
1521 2011-09-12 18:04:38 <phantomcircuit> i think i have 1 satoshi from the days of floating points
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1527 2011-09-12 18:09:00 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, i'll take your word for it that there is an issue
1528 2011-09-12 18:12:38 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, sadly that ip appears to be part of a botnet with pptp installed
1529 2011-09-12 18:12:46 <phantomcircuit> sophisticated attackers...
1530 2011-09-12 18:14:16 <Diablo-D3> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=43678.0
1531 2011-09-12 18:14:35 <BlueMatt> anyone an expert on pe binary format specifically the resources section?
1532 2011-09-12 18:14:47 <Diablo-D3> lolwindows
1533 2011-09-12 18:15:12 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, do you mind if i post the ip there?
1534 2011-09-12 18:15:35 <gjs278> it's just a number
1535 2011-09-12 18:15:42 <gjs278> I would have guessed the ip eventually
1536 2011-09-12 18:15:47 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: go ahead.
1537 2011-09-12 18:17:05 <Diablo-D3> anyhow, I expect tux to have fixed this by the time I get up
1538 2011-09-12 18:17:06 <Diablo-D3> night all
1539 2011-09-12 18:17:39 <neofutur> you emailed the support at least ?
1540 2011-09-12 18:18:01 <neofutur> nothing to fix as long as you are the only one
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1542 2011-09-12 18:20:43 <makomk> Diablo-D3: there was a Linux bitcoin user claiming to have gotten a trojan on his machine actually...
1543 2011-09-12 18:20:57 <makomk> Well, rootkit actually, so nastier.
1544 2011-09-12 18:21:15 <makomk> (I suspect he may have been mistaken but still..)
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1555 2011-09-12 18:40:45 <Joric> implemented 22-char mini key checking https://bitcointools.appspot.com/?k=S4b3N3oGqDqR5jNuxEvDwf :]
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1582 2011-09-12 19:27:55 <sytse> hmm
1583 2011-09-12 19:27:58 <sytse> never thought about this
1584 2011-09-12 19:28:11 rdponticelli has joined
1585 2011-09-12 19:29:07 <sytse> but it's actually quite mean that technically, if you buy someone an especially worthy birthday present, you need to pay one hell of a lot of money to the state to be allowed to do so...
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1610 2011-09-12 19:38:53 <BlueMatt> best comment to explain a magic number ever: "// magic numbers are great" - nsis source
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1614 2011-09-12 19:42:45 <Joric> just read bitcoinica made by 17 yo in a week, amazing
1615 2011-09-12 19:43:10 <Joric> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2973301
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1619 2011-09-12 19:45:36 <BTCTrader> not amazing joric, nerdy
1620 2011-09-12 19:45:48 <midnightmagic> yeah great, i'm gonna trust a 17y-o with that
1621 2011-09-12 19:45:50 <dikidera> question about merged mining
1622 2011-09-12 19:46:07 <dikidera> which client will be issuing the getworks exactly?
1623 2011-09-12 19:46:13 <midnightmagic> both
1624 2011-09-12 19:46:17 <dikidera> how?
1625 2011-09-12 19:46:23 <midnightmagic> and to do it you need a patched bitcoind
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1627 2011-09-12 19:46:24 <dikidera> miners must be modified for this
1628 2011-09-12 19:46:28 <midnightmagic> no
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1630 2011-09-12 19:46:40 <midnightmagic> you run a proxy that combines the work
1631 2011-09-12 19:46:49 <dikidera> combining work?
1632 2011-09-12 19:46:52 <midnightmagic> and point your miners at the proxy
1633 2011-09-12 19:47:06 <dikidera> i thought that every bitcoind issues unique for itself work
1634 2011-09-12 19:47:16 <Disposition> it does.
1635 2011-09-12 19:47:17 <dikidera> so even if you request work from srv1 you cant send it to srv2
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1637 2011-09-12 19:47:39 <midnightmagic> it does but you need to do a few special things to accommodate the aux chain (namecoin in this case)
1638 2011-09-12 19:48:16 <midnightmagic> so the merged mining proxy does a getwork from both namecoin and bitcoin..
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1641 2011-09-12 19:48:33 <midnightmagic> actually getworkaux i think
1642 2011-09-12 19:48:43 <dikidera> so it combines them in one getwork or
1643 2011-09-12 19:49:01 <midnightmagic> one for the miners to work on yah
1644 2011-09-12 19:49:05 <dikidera> wow
1645 2011-09-12 19:49:16 <dikidera> never knew such a feat was possible
1646 2011-09-12 19:49:24 <Disposition> well technically it assumes whichever has the highest diffculty
1647 2011-09-12 19:49:29 <midnightmagic> and you insta presto chango, you get double the work for almost no cost
1648 2011-09-12 19:49:31 BTCTrader is now known as BTC_away
1649 2011-09-12 19:49:33 <Disposition> or assumes the main chain as the higher diffculty
1650 2011-09-12 19:50:08 <midnightmagic> the proxy submits work to both don't it?
1651 2011-09-12 19:50:41 <dikidera> one more question
1652 2011-09-12 19:50:49 <Disposition> while the concept is good, it as multiple value implications that resulting in the likelyhood of this being adopted to be low.
1653 2011-09-12 19:50:56 <dikidera> in the getworks, in one of the keys which is data
1654 2011-09-12 19:51:01 <Disposition> at least I don't support it because of it
1655 2011-09-12 19:51:04 <dikidera> the last few bytes contain the current diff
1656 2011-09-12 19:51:10 <dikidera> how will that work in the new merge?
1657 2011-09-12 19:51:26 <Disposition> dikidera: that you'll need to look at the code
1658 2011-09-12 19:51:37 <Disposition> iirc it's already written as oppose to like a proposal somewhere
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1660 2011-09-12 19:52:07 <helo> this is good... multiple proof-of-work systems can all work together to increase one-another's hashing power, rather than competing
1661 2011-09-12 19:52:25 <dikidera> looks like nmc 's price will fall then
1662 2011-09-12 19:52:28 <Disposition> it's good in that regard
1663 2011-09-12 19:52:33 <Disposition> but all values will drop.
1664 2011-09-12 19:52:37 <Disposition> dikidera: bitcoin too.
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1666 2011-09-12 19:53:51 <Disposition> this was discussed over the nyc conference and that's one of it's major problems
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1668 2011-09-12 19:54:31 <Disposition> if merge mining does happen, you'll effectively get more "coins" of any type by doing the same work: reducing the coins worth
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1670 2011-09-12 19:54:52 <dikidera> how far away is it?
1671 2011-09-12 19:54:53 <midnightmagic> no
1672 2011-09-12 19:55:01 <dikidera> merged mining i mean
1673 2011-09-12 19:55:04 <midnightmagic> difficultu will scale up and you won't
1674 2011-09-12 19:55:18 <Disposition> midnightmagic: you still will.
1675 2011-09-12 19:55:20 <midnightmagic> in fact it will likely
1676 2011-09-12 19:55:22 <dikidera> yup
1677 2011-09-12 19:55:26 <Disposition> diffculty doesn't even matter in this.
1678 2011-09-12 19:55:28 <dikidera> if nmc diff is 1,7 mill
1679 2011-09-12 19:55:29 <midnightmagic> err.. it will likely push value uo
1680 2011-09-12 19:55:45 <helo> increasing network hash power is most important
1681 2011-09-12 19:56:47 <midnightmagic> difficulty doesn't matter?! maybe for the first two diffoculty increments lol and then suddwnly namecoins can't be solo'd anymore and nobody can get their hands on any :-D
1682 2011-09-12 19:57:06 <Disposition> so?
1683 2011-09-12 19:57:27 <midnightmagic> so people have .bit that need updates!
1684 2011-09-12 19:57:59 <tcatm> did anything wx related change recently? I get "error: âclass wxStringâ has no member named âToStdStringâ"
1685 2011-09-12 19:58:04 <Disposition> pound for pound or rather gh/s for gh/s when diffculty do even out, you are still getting double or w/e amount of aux chain coins
1686 2011-09-12 19:58:18 <Disposition> for the same amount of work
1687 2011-09-12 19:58:18 <midnightmagic> there's a use in there for namecoins.. either the use will wither as namecoins grow scarce, or namecoins will grow more valuable
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1689 2011-09-12 19:58:36 <Disposition> in the long run, the value of primary and aux chain's coin value will decrease
1690 2011-09-12 19:58:43 <Disposition> simply because it's easier to get them
1691 2011-09-12 19:58:45 <helo> the value is based off of supply and demand... the supply over time is fixed regardless of hashing power, so unless merged mining decreases demand, how would the value go down?
1692 2011-09-12 19:58:57 <midnightmagic> it won't be easier to get bitcoins
1693 2011-09-12 19:59:25 <Disposition> helo: supply will go up, right now there's a bunch of people mining bitcoins as oppose to say namecoins
1694 2011-09-12 19:59:29 <Disposition> when merge mining happens...
1695 2011-09-12 19:59:36 <midnightmagic> meh i'ma get a shower and wash off this work dirt. think what you like.
1696 2011-09-12 20:00:02 <helo> the supply will still be +300/hr
1697 2011-09-12 20:00:34 <midnightmagic> helo: it'll be very very spread out with the bigger hashrate :-(
1698 2011-09-12 20:00:57 <Disposition> of course; economically it'll impact the current exchange rate
1699 2011-09-12 20:01:04 <midnightmagic> i'm contemplating switching over and mining nmc rather than bitcoins in anticipation ;-(
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1701 2011-09-12 20:02:36 <midnightmagic> helo: also, right now hashrate is a tiny fraction of difficilty so actually each block is taking closer to 2 hrs
1702 2011-09-12 20:03:34 <zamgo> nmc block 19100 - threatened attack to begin. nmc block 19200 - merged mining to begin.
1703 2011-09-12 20:03:58 <Disposition> zamgo: "threatened attack"?
1704 2011-09-12 20:04:23 <zamgo> yup
1705 2011-09-12 20:05:34 <midnightmagic> ah so that's why 19100 has the lock-in placeholder?
1706 2011-09-12 20:05:50 <Disposition> zamgo: what is the threatened attack rather.
1707 2011-09-12 20:05:59 <midnightmagic> zamgo: i would dearly love some more detail about that
1708 2011-09-12 20:06:37 <zamgo> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=43465.msg521136#msg521136
1709 2011-09-12 20:07:00 <zamgo> same msg was posted to namecoin forum also
1710 2011-09-12 20:07:23 <midnightmagic> tnx
1711 2011-09-12 20:08:42 <Disposition> can some one linked me the  ArtForz Geist Geld exploit?
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1716 2011-09-12 20:15:38 <Lolcust> It's in the Geist Geld thread here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=42417.msg517020#msg517020
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1719 2011-09-12 20:18:57 <doublec> What is the "Gavins patch will not work for exchanges" referring to in that post?
1720 2011-09-12 20:19:23 <Lolcust> Gavin posted a link to a patch if I recall correctly...
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1722 2011-09-12 20:19:50 <Lolcust> And there is another run-in in progress on Geist, lol. Test chain is so being tested ...
1723 2011-09-12 20:20:01 <zamgo> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/195
1724 2011-09-12 20:20:41 <zamgo> for use in recovering wallets
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1726 2011-09-12 20:21:38 <doublec> oh right
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1733 2011-09-12 20:27:42 <Disposition> yeah that patch still relays on the blockchain, and since this method is to overwrite and destroy existing blockchain, depends on how far they rewrite, the whole exchange maybe out of coins and all funds returning to their generated addresses
1734 2011-09-12 20:27:55 <Disposition> also that patch is since been merged into the showwallet branch iirc.
1735 2011-09-12 20:33:21 HarryS has joined
1736 2011-09-12 20:33:42 <doublec> I thought artforz's geist geld exploit to mine faster wouldn't work on namecoin
1737 2011-09-12 20:33:55 <doublec> doesn't that rely on the fact that geist uses the times in blocks for difficulty adjustment?
1738 2011-09-12 20:34:03 dinox has joined
1739 2011-09-12 20:34:21 <doublec> so the exploiter adjusts the times in the blocks they submit to force difficulty to stay low
1740 2011-09-12 20:34:30 <doublec> whereas namecoin doesn't take this approach
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1742 2011-09-12 20:35:36 <zamgo> namecoin is vanilla bitcoin difficulty adjustment, yes?
1743 2011-09-12 20:36:08 <midnightmagic> yah
1744 2011-09-12 20:36:15 <midnightmagic> symmetrical
1745 2011-09-12 20:38:38 <zamgo> sigh
1746 2011-09-12 20:38:44 <zamgo> "The bottom line is, with enough hashing power it is now possible to do anything you want with block chain. Currently we have over 800 GH/s of people committed to the Hit Pool."
1747 2011-09-12 20:38:48 <Disposition> actually if you have 51, you might able to change more rules.
1748 2011-09-12 20:41:29 <Lolcust> doublec I might be wrong (I am in general easily confused lol ;-) ) but it seems to me that Bitcoin, too, relies on timestamps
1749 2011-09-12 20:41:40 LK- has joined
1750 2011-09-12 20:41:54 <Lolcust> Also, Artzforz has just taken a look at the dump of Express's run-in
1751 2011-09-12 20:42:51 <Lolcust> And according to him, anyone with at least 51 should be able to do that to any chain that doesn't have its hashrate in the terahashes
1752 2011-09-12 20:43:21 <Disposition> pretty much, you would create and validate rules on the fly
1753 2011-09-12 20:43:47 E-sense has joined
1754 2011-09-12 20:44:05 <Disposition> so now every large pool operator holds even more power.
1755 2011-09-12 20:44:34 <Disposition> they can effectively proxy switch to destroy any alt bchain lol
1756 2011-09-12 20:45:18 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1757 2011-09-12 20:46:35 <midnightmagic> meh
1758 2011-09-12 20:46:37 <midnightmagic> boring
1759 2011-09-12 20:47:25 <Lolcust> Disposition according to Artz, some clever trickery is still involved in how the 51 attacker handles timestamps, as evidenced by Geist run-in
1760 2011-09-12 20:48:26 <Lolcust> Interested folks can probably take a look at a dump of Geist's blockchain (though it's being pwnt again as we speak)
1761 2011-09-12 20:48:53 <Lolcust> But I haz backuped it just for this case lol
1762 2011-09-12 20:51:38 <Disposition> Lolcust: where can I find this backup?
1763 2011-09-12 20:51:59 <Lolcust> Uno momento, uploading (lol Belarus internet suxxxxx)
1764 2011-09-12 20:52:51 <Disposition> yeah, I'll throw up some mirrors for you after
1765 2011-09-12 20:53:29 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: should have -rc2 tonight. kernel.org security explosion + unexpected family medical stuff took priority unfortunately.
1766 2011-09-12 20:53:32 <Disposition> also some what related https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2358.0
1767 2011-09-12 20:54:02 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: no worries; hope everything settles down
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1771 2011-09-12 20:55:45 <Lolcust> Disposition I think I might reset anyways, maybe even with licensed mining on, to keep down 51 crap (lol everyone and his dog can 51 a humble little fork)
1772 2011-09-12 20:56:33 <gavinandresen> how does licensed mining work?
1773 2011-09-12 20:56:35 <Disposition> Lolcust: that's your call, but I don't think it matters, for every fork I see it as a testbed
1774 2011-09-12 20:56:38 Jefff has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1775 2011-09-12 20:57:18 <Disposition> I would like to know about liscensed mining as well.
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1777 2011-09-12 20:58:43 <Lolcust> Disposition Licensed mining is a feat in Multicoin that allows a central authority structure (lol Great King Lolcust) decide who is worthy of mining a chain, as far as I understand
1778 2011-09-12 20:59:00 <Lolcust> Sucks because you have to distribute and manage keys, and that's hard
1779 2011-09-12 20:59:18 <Disposition> ah so it's key based.
1780 2011-09-12 20:59:22 <phantomcircuit> well there is an easy solution!
1781 2011-09-12 20:59:22 <gavinandresen> ... but how does it define "who" ? I can think of ways of keeping an attacker from mining coins that they can spend....
1782 2011-09-12 20:59:26 <phantomcircuit> give everybody the keys!
1783 2011-09-12 20:59:40 Guest47626 is now known as MBS
1784 2011-09-12 20:59:46 * phantomcircuit goes away
1785 2011-09-12 20:59:46 <gavinandresen> ... but if the attacker doesn't care that they're generating coins that somebody ELSE can spend, what stops them from impersonating a licensed miner?
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1788 2011-09-12 21:00:51 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, not having the key?
1789 2011-09-12 21:00:57 <gavinandresen> what key?
1790 2011-09-12 21:01:07 <phantomcircuit> it's trivial to implement a keying system
1791 2011-09-12 21:01:10 <Lolcust> Methinks that I am best to link to the git with multicoin-exp since intricacies of implementation are 1) out of my depth 2) not something I looked into deeply, since I generally loathe the idea of manually giving people keys
1792 2011-09-12 21:01:29 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Copywight 2007 Elmer Fudd. All wights wesewved.)
1793 2011-09-12 21:01:49 <phantomcircuit> just give miners signed tokens which include the previous blocks hash
1794 2011-09-12 21:01:50 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: sure.... so you sign something in the coinbase saying "I'm licensed to generate this block" ?
1795 2011-09-12 21:01:59 <zamgo> re: licensed miners: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=24209.msg347203#msg347203
1796 2011-09-12 21:02:04 <phantomcircuit> shazam unless they give them out to other people then you've got licensed mining
1797 2011-09-12 21:02:15 <Lolcust> Disposition I explicitly intend Geist to be a testbed with wide public access, but 51 ing is mildly grating, due to its, well, scientific paucity.
1798 2011-09-12 21:02:27 <phantomcircuit> the correct solution is to leach off of bitcoin though
1799 2011-09-12 21:03:06 <erus`> what happened to MR.moon?
1800 2011-09-12 21:03:13 <gavinandresen> zamgo: thanks.
1801 2011-09-12 21:04:11 <Disposition> Lolcust: then you might as well call the current chain testnet for Geist.
1802 2011-09-12 21:04:20 <Lolcust> LOL
1803 2011-09-12 21:04:40 <Disposition> make sense no?
1804 2011-09-12 21:04:44 <Lolcust> Disposition http://www.mediafire.com/?ufyx3tk4bsg0pg5 <-dump of Geist's data folder sans wallet.dat, after second (express) run-in, but before current one
1805 2011-09-12 21:05:10 <Disposition> thanks, much appreciated.
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1807 2011-09-12 21:06:04 <Lolcust> According to Artz, some cunning stuff is going on there
1808 2011-09-12 21:06:19 <Lolcust> 4 Science !
1809 2011-09-12 21:07:44 <Disposition> well looks like I have to bump my standalone blockchain reader module up in the prority list
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1812 2011-09-12 21:08:59 Disposition is now known as Dispose_away
1813 2011-09-12 21:10:24 <Lolcust> erus` Mr . Moon has resurrected AFAIK.
1814 2011-09-12 21:12:17 <Lolcust> Disposition it might be worthwhile to send that dump to the namecoin guys
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1817 2011-09-12 21:15:53 <Dispose_away> Lolcust: yeah I'm mirroring it up now, talk to vinced.
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1835 2011-09-12 21:40:14 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r671bb8f / lib/transactionstore.js : Fixed orphan transactions being requested multiple times. - http://git.io/xe9_MQ
1836 2011-09-12 21:40:14 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r8366251 / lib/blockchainmanager.js : Possible fix for "multiple block downloads started at once" bug. See #33. - http://git.io/w-ErOw
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1847 2011-09-12 21:51:05 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r4c6dfc3 / lib/peermanager.js : Fixed regression where --connect would not behave correctly. - http://git.io/tj3jNg
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1887 2011-09-12 22:45:10 <alexwaters> ;seen gavinandresen
1888 2011-09-12 22:46:12 <phantomcircuit> ;;seen gavinandresen
1889 2011-09-12 22:46:12 <gribble> gavinandresen was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 hour, 42 minutes, and 58 seconds ago: <gavinandresen> zamgo: thanks.
1890 2011-09-12 22:59:41 AnnihilaT is now known as AnniGONE
1891 2011-09-12 23:01:19 <AnniGONE> ;seen diabolo-3d
1892 2011-09-12 23:01:38 <AnniGONE> ;seen diablo-3d
1893 2011-09-12 23:01:58 <phantomcircuit> are you for real
1894 2011-09-12 23:02:03 <phantomcircuit> ;;seen diablo-d3
1895 2011-09-12 23:02:04 <gribble> diablo-d3 was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 4 hours, 44 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <Diablo-D3> night all
1896 2011-09-12 23:02:19 <AnniGONE> nope im fake
1897 2011-09-12 23:02:20 <AnniGONE> thanks
1898 2011-09-12 23:02:31 <phantomcircuit> lol i just did it for someone else too
1899 2011-09-12 23:02:46 <AnniGONE> any more news from him ?
1900 2011-09-12 23:02:59 <AnniGONE> about his goxxation ?
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1915 2011-09-12 23:28:39 <shadders> !sen conman
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