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13 2011-10-05 00:09:09 <gmaxwell> talk in #bitcoin about anti-double-spending validation services makes me want the height>x check that luke was asking for...
14 2011-10-05 00:09:34 <BlueMatt> height>x?
15 2011-10-05 00:09:53 <gmaxwell> so you could write scripts that look like A&&(B||Height>N) which are secure against double spend until you get near N... but then they become normal.
16 2011-10-05 00:10:18 <BlueMatt> ahhhh
17 2011-10-05 00:10:23 <BlueMatt> why?
18 2011-10-05 00:10:25 <gmaxwell> so e.g. if you lock up a bunch of coin with an anti-double spending service and they go out of business and don't publish their keys, you get your coin back eventually.
19 2011-10-05 00:10:39 <BlueMatt> fair enough
20 2011-10-05 00:10:41 <gmaxwell> (or more relevantly, so they have no leverage to extort people with)
21 2011-10-05 00:11:09 <BlueMatt> though anti-double-sped services (in the form of insurance against) can operate very easily in the current network anyway
22 2011-10-05 00:11:32 <gmaxwell> Yes, I've pointed that out before... thats probably a better model too, less noise in the chain.
23 2011-10-05 00:12:01 * BlueMatt always prefers less noise in the chain to fancy multi-key txes
24 2011-10-05 00:12:13 <BlueMatt> if you cant trust anyway get over it
25 2011-10-05 00:12:19 <BlueMatt> s/anyway/anyone/
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40 2011-10-05 00:29:12 <diki> i want to know
41 2011-10-05 00:29:25 <diki> is there a more detailed information about the nonce thingies?
42 2011-10-05 00:29:34 <diki> as to why numbers and not maybe random strings?
43 2011-10-05 00:29:46 <diki> why was the l
44 2011-10-05 00:29:53 <diki> limit set to 2^32 and so on
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50 2011-10-05 00:49:23 <Faero> Hey, I've been having some problems getting pushpool talking to bitcoind... anyone around who would care to advise me on the matter? :)
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89 2011-10-05 01:55:26 <forrestv> diki, nonces are four bytes. that was determined to be "enough". you can treat it as a 32bit unsigned integer or a 4 byte string ... so it's not really either. just four random bytes
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110 2011-10-05 02:35:52 <gmaxwell> forrestv: diki was in here several months ago agressively not understanding nonces. Claiming that he was going to take over bitcoin by magically predicting correct ones and whatmore. I recommend /ignore.
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114 2011-10-05 02:43:28 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: lol
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117 2011-10-05 02:44:06 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: you are stalking me!!!!!!!!111oneoneoneelevens
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120 2011-10-05 02:56:10 <FellowTraveler> hi all.
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124 2011-10-05 02:59:44 <EvanR> !1eleventyone
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160 2011-10-05 04:10:49 <log0s> tcatm: mtgox made some api changes that are affecting bitcoincharts (eur trades converted to usd prices and showing up on the mtgoxusd charts)
161 2011-10-05 04:14:41 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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165 2011-10-05 04:27:11 <neofutur> ( eur or other currencies )
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180 2011-10-05 04:47:06 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * rac016af / (lib/blockchain.js lib/schema/block.js): Added verification of difficulty transitions. - http://git.io/g7ycXA
181 2011-10-05 04:47:06 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * ra21a081 / lib/blockchain.js : Don't attach orphans. Fixes #36. - http://git.io/x-79eg
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183 2011-10-05 04:48:38 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r99fc93c / (lib/bitcoin.js package.json): Version bump to 0.1.1. - http://git.io/9WiELA
184 2011-10-05 04:53:10 <cronopio> Great for the bitcoinjs team!!!!
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197 2011-10-05 05:14:04 <snimpy> ;;bc,index
198 2011-10-05 05:14:05 <gribble> Error: "bc,index" is not a valid command.
199 2011-10-05 05:14:23 <snimpy> ;;bc,ticker
200 2011-10-05 05:14:23 <gribble> Error: "bc,ticker" is not a valid command.
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203 2011-10-05 05:14:50 <snimpy> ;;bc,ticker
204 2011-10-05 05:14:50 <gribble> Error: "bc,ticker" is not a valid command.
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282 2011-10-05 07:34:23 butrs is now known as kish
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295 2011-10-05 07:48:55 <snimpy> ;;bc,blocks
296 2011-10-05 07:48:55 <gribble> 148131
297 2011-10-05 07:49:09 <snimpy> ;;bc,totalbc
298 2011-10-05 07:49:10 <gribble> 7406600.00000000
299 2011-10-05 07:49:55 <snimpy> ;;bc,bcm
300 2011-10-05 07:49:55 <gribble> [{"pair": "BMBTC/BMUSD", "ask": "15.5", "bid": "0.0", "time": 1317800208}, {"pair": "BMBTC/BMAUD", "ask": "0.0", "bid": "0.0", "time": 1317800208}, {"pair": "BMBTC/BMGAU", "ask": "0.0", "bid": "0.0", "time": 1317800208}, {"pair": "BMBTC/LRUSD", "ask": "0.0", "bid": "4.0", "time": 1317800208}, {"pair": "BMBTC/MBUSD", "ask": "14.95", "bid": "0.0", "time": 1317800208}, {"pair": "BMBTC/MLUSD", (1 more message)
301 2011-10-05 07:50:05 <snimpy> ;;bc,mtgox
302 2011-10-05 07:50:06 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":5.025,"low":4.88,"avg":4.957331679,"vwap":4.949377509,"vol":17919,"last_all":4.96,"last_local":4.96,"last":4.96,"buy":4.92,"sell":4.95798}}
303 2011-10-05 07:50:13 <snimpy> ;;bc,ticker
304 2011-10-05 07:50:13 <gribble> Error: "bc,ticker" is not a valid command.
305 2011-10-05 07:50:21 <snimpy> ;;bc,xau
306 2011-10-05 07:50:22 <gribble> 1 XAU = 1625.150000000000 USD = 327.651209677 BTC
307 2011-10-05 07:50:40 SomeoneWeirdBRB is now known as SomeoneWeird
308 2011-10-05 07:50:57 <snimpy> ;;bc,slushpool
309 2011-10-05 07:50:58 <gribble> 1309725000
310 2011-10-05 07:51:11 <snimpy> ;;bc,deepbit
311 2011-10-05 07:51:12 <gribble> 4558995000
312 2011-10-05 07:52:26 <snimpy> ;;bc,interval
313 2011-10-05 07:52:27 <gribble> 665
314 2011-10-05 07:52:40 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
315 2011-10-05 07:52:42 <snimpy> ;;bc, estimate
316 2011-10-05 07:52:42 <gribble> Error: "bc," is not a valid command.
317 2011-10-05 07:52:48 <snimpy> ;;bc,estimate
318 2011-10-05 07:52:49 <gribble> 1535013.48020388
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360 2011-10-05 08:54:36 <snimpy> ;;bc,avgprc
361 2011-10-05 08:54:38 <gribble> {"USD": {"7d": "4.9206", "30d": "5.5783", "24h": "4.9162"}, "GBP": {"7d": "3.1898", "30d": "3.5758", "24h": "3.2510"}, "DKK": {"30d": "35.6897"}, "CAD": {"7d": "5.1615", "30d": "5.9307", "24h": "5.3005"}, "HUF": {"30d": "1105.3481"}, "UAH": {"30d": "43.5057"}, "SEK": {"7d": "33.4466", "30d": "35.1966"}, "SGD": {"7d": "6.5771", "30d": "6.8073"}, "HKD": {"7d": "39.9175", "30d": "43.2156"}, (2 more messages)
362 2011-10-05 08:55:43 Sedra has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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393 2011-10-05 09:35:58 <gjs278> ;;bc,stats
394 2011-10-05 09:36:02 <gribble> Current Blocks: 148139 | Current Difficulty: 1689334.4045971 | Next Difficulty At Block: 149183 | Next Difficulty In: 1044 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 23 hours, 58 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1532918.30331150 | Estimated Percent Change: -9.25903721965
395 2011-10-05 09:36:08 <gjs278> lol difficulty
396 2011-10-05 09:37:12 datagutt has joined
397 2011-10-05 09:38:50 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * 64459db8dba9 r159 /poolserverj-core/src/main/java/com/shadworld/poolserver/source/merged/ (ChainGroup.java MemberDaemon.java): add chaingroup for tracking blocknumbers
398 2011-10-05 09:38:51 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * 5f86288c7806 r160 /poolserverj-main/src/main/java/com/shadworld/poolserver/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
399 2011-10-05 09:38:51 <CIA-101> poolserverj: add case sensitive worker name option (caseSensitiveWorkerNames=false)
400 2011-10-05 09:38:51 <CIA-101> poolserverj: add AnyWorkerFetchEngine that bypasses DB lookup and returns a worker with the requested name. This is for pools that do no have miner accounts and use a payout address as username. Password is set to empty String.
401 2011-10-05 09:38:51 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * 429edc179d4c r161 /poolserverj-main/src/main/java/com/shadworld/poolserver/conf/Conf.java: Hack to allow properties to return empty String instead of null - use value '~#EMPTY_STRING#~'
402 2011-10-05 09:40:34 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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408 2011-10-05 09:47:16 MT`AwAy is now known as Guest4864
409 2011-10-05 09:50:28 <snimpy> ;;bc,avgprc
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411 2011-10-05 09:50:29 <gribble> {"USD": {"7d": "4.9225", "30d": "5.5778", "24h": "4.9142"}, "GBP": {"7d": "3.1904", "30d": "3.5686", "24h": "3.2493"}, "DKK": {"30d": "35.6897"}, "CAD": {"7d": "5.1615", "30d": "5.9299", "24h": "5.3000"}, "HUF": {"30d": "1105.3481"}, "UAH": {"30d": "43.5057"}, "SEK": {"7d": "33.4466", "30d": "35.1966"}, "SGD": {"7d": "6.5771", "30d": "6.8073"}, "HKD": {"7d": "39.9175", "30d": "43.2156"}, (2 more messages)
412 2011-10-05 09:51:27 zhoutong has joined
413 2011-10-05 09:52:32 <snimpy> ;;bc,fc
414 2011-10-05 09:52:33 <gribble> Error: "bc,fc" is not a valid command.
415 2011-10-05 09:52:42 <snimpy> ;;bc,fx
416 2011-10-05 09:52:45 <gribble> 1 XAU = 0.00 USD | 1 US dollar = 0.7520 euros | 1 US dollar = 1.0556 Canadian dollars | 1 US dollar = 0.6465 British pounds sterling | 1 US dollar = 1.0479 Australian dollars | 1 US dollar = 76.6700 Japanese yen | 1 US dollar = 7.7820 Hong Kong dollars | 1 BTC = 4.9395 USD
417 2011-10-05 09:55:18 zhoutong has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
418 2011-10-05 09:55:45 <UukGoblin> so, a new humble bundle came and it still doesn't accept bitcoins :-(
419 2011-10-05 09:56:15 zhoutong has joined
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429 2011-10-05 10:21:24 <snimpy> difficulty goes down, thats good
430 2011-10-05 10:21:39 <sipa> is it?
431 2011-10-05 10:22:02 RobinPKR has joined
432 2011-10-05 10:22:05 <snimpy> the network is safe enought
433 2011-10-05 10:22:19 <snimpy> less power consumption to keep it running
434 2011-10-05 10:23:44 <sipa> agree
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440 2011-10-05 10:30:14 <snimpy> ;;bc,diffchange
441 2011-10-05 10:30:16 <gribble> Estimated percent change in difficulty this period | -9.24575159205 % based on data since last change | -12.9154469105 % based on data for last three days
442 2011-10-05 10:30:24 TuxBlackEdo has joined
443 2011-10-05 10:30:25 <TuxBlackEdo> does anyone here know about ssd recovery?
444 2011-10-05 10:31:05 zhoutong has joined
445 2011-10-05 10:31:08 <snimpy> encrypted or unencrytpted
446 2011-10-05 10:31:24 <TuxBlackEdo> unecrypted
447 2011-10-05 10:31:48 <TuxBlackEdo> it shows up in bios
448 2011-10-05 10:32:10 <snimpy> what was on it Linux or Win or both?
449 2011-10-05 10:32:15 <TuxBlackEdo> and it will start up and freeze before it gets to the splash screen
450 2011-10-05 10:32:17 <TuxBlackEdo> windows
451 2011-10-05 10:32:38 <TuxBlackEdo> i havent tried an external sata adapter yet
452 2011-10-05 10:32:46 <sipa> and the windows installation is on the SSD, or not?
453 2011-10-05 10:32:50 <TuxBlackEdo> yes
454 2011-10-05 10:32:59 <snimpy> drivers...
455 2011-10-05 10:33:14 <sipa> then it is most likely the windows installation that broke, and not the ssd
456 2011-10-05 10:33:20 <TuxBlackEdo> i tried turning on my computer with the windows 7 install cd inside, and tried to go to "reair my computer" but it cant find the ssd
457 2011-10-05 10:33:37 <TuxBlackEdo> drivers shouldnt be a problem because it has worked until now
458 2011-10-05 10:33:46 <snimpy> try too boot with f8
459 2011-10-05 10:34:02 <TuxBlackEdo> yeah i tried that
460 2011-10-05 10:34:25 <snimpy> use scanregw.exe to restore an older system checkpoint
461 2011-10-05 10:34:41 imsaguy has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
462 2011-10-05 10:34:42 <TuxBlackEdo> it just blacks out, you know how after the bios, the little line blinks in the top corner of the screen, and disappears, then it goes to the slash screen, it doesnt get to the splash screen
463 2011-10-05 10:35:06 <sipa> boot from a live cd
464 2011-10-05 10:35:11 <TuxBlackEdo> I am booted off a secondary hard drive with the broken ssd also and its not showing up
465 2011-10-05 10:35:20 <sipa> hmmm
466 2011-10-05 10:35:25 <sipa> then it may be the ssd indeed
467 2011-10-05 10:35:32 <TuxBlackEdo> it is :(
468 2011-10-05 10:35:38 <TuxBlackEdo> i am thinking of doing the ssd recovery
469 2011-10-05 10:35:45 <TuxBlackEdo> planning on spending $2000 probably
470 2011-10-05 10:36:03 <TuxBlackEdo> so if anyone here can help me without doing that I will gladly send 150btc
471 2011-10-05 10:36:05 <snimpy> make an image of the whole disk, clone it to a normlal hard drive
472 2011-10-05 10:36:07 mmoya has joined
473 2011-10-05 10:36:07 <snimpy> ide
474 2011-10-05 10:36:13 <snimpy> sata
475 2011-10-05 10:36:37 <snimpy> try too boot windows from this drive, ur data will be there
476 2011-10-05 10:36:53 <snimpy> dont try too much recovery b4 u habe a clone or backup of the hdd
477 2011-10-05 10:37:08 <TuxBlackEdo> i dont care about the ssd i just want the data
478 2011-10-05 10:37:49 <TuxBlackEdo> its not showing up in windows, shows up in the bios though
479 2011-10-05 10:37:53 <sipa> boot using a linux live cd, and try to create an image
480 2011-10-05 10:38:02 <sipa> if that succeeds, your data is most likely safe
481 2011-10-05 10:38:07 <snimpy> use pmagic-6.6
482 2011-10-05 10:38:18 <TuxBlackEdo> how do I use a live cd, once i boot up what commands do i do?
483 2011-10-05 10:38:38 <snimpy> it usable by intuition
484 2011-10-05 10:38:39 <TuxBlackEdo> parted magic
485 2011-10-05 10:38:41 <sipa> there's probably tools that are more user friendly that do the same
486 2011-10-05 10:38:49 <JFK911> dd if=/de/vrandom of=/dev/dsa
487 2011-10-05 10:38:59 <snimpy> use parted magic: pmagic-6.6.iso
488 2011-10-05 10:39:23 <JFK911> fdisk --wipeall
489 2011-10-05 10:39:27 <snimpy> clone the drive to an sata or ide drive
490 2011-10-05 10:39:50 <JFK911> theres also a nice tool called "recovery master" it's shortened to rm
491 2011-10-05 10:39:54 <snimpy> tehn boot from the sata or ide drive
492 2011-10-05 10:39:55 <TuxBlackEdo> i am going to try pmagic
493 2011-10-05 10:40:09 <sipa> TuxBlackEdo: whatever you do, don't do what JFK911 says :p
494 2011-10-05 10:40:16 <TuxBlackEdo> yeah i know
495 2011-10-05 10:40:35 <snimpy> omg
496 2011-10-05 10:40:53 <snimpy> rm is bullshit lol
497 2011-10-05 10:41:02 <JFK911> you must not be using it with the right options
498 2011-10-05 10:41:05 <JFK911> -r for recover and -f for fast
499 2011-10-05 10:41:27 <TuxBlackEdo> i was seriously just sitting there and turning the computer on and off for like 30 mins straight trying to get it to work
500 2011-10-05 10:41:45 <TuxBlackEdo> i was also thinking of putting the drive in the freezer but i heard that only works on mechanical drives
501 2011-10-05 10:42:20 <sipa> indeed
502 2011-10-05 10:42:22 <JFK911> seriously now: the freezer isnt a good idea.
503 2011-10-05 10:42:43 <JFK911> that idea should get the same reaction as the last bunch of lines i wrote here.
504 2011-10-05 10:42:50 <manveru> :)
505 2011-10-05 10:43:05 <TuxBlackEdo> i just need it to work just one more time
506 2011-10-05 10:43:15 * TuxBlackEdo is burning pmagic cd
507 2011-10-05 10:43:20 <manveru> TuxBlackEdo: you can boot from usb?
508 2011-10-05 10:43:24 <JFK911> you had an ssd fail or go corrupt?
509 2011-10-05 10:43:24 <TuxBlackEdo> yes
510 2011-10-05 10:43:37 <TuxBlackEdo> ssd controller probably :(
511 2011-10-05 10:43:42 <JFK911> does it detect?
512 2011-10-05 10:43:50 <TuxBlackEdo> bios does, windows doesn't
513 2011-10-05 10:43:58 <manveru> oh, windows
514 2011-10-05 10:43:58 <sipa> filesystem broken maybe
515 2011-10-05 10:44:08 <JFK911> yea, see if you can see a partition label
516 2011-10-05 10:44:29 <TuxBlackEdo> device manager (where drives without a filesystem show up) doesnt show my drive
517 2011-10-05 10:44:33 <manveru> well, i guess recommending grml isn't gonna be much help then :)
518 2011-10-05 10:44:33 <snimpy> ;;ticker
519 2011-10-05 10:44:33 <mizerydearia> See #bitcoin-tickers (or #bitcoin-tickers-???, replace ??? with one of aud,bgn,brl,cad,chf,eur,gbp,hkd,inr,jpy,nzd,pln,rub,sek,sgd,sll,thb,usd,zar)
520 2011-10-05 10:44:34 <gribble> Best bid: 4.9, Best ask: 4.915, Bid-ask spread: 0.015, Last trade: 4.9, 24 hour volume: 18611, 24 hour low: 4.88, 24 hour high: 5.025
521 2011-10-05 10:44:46 <JFK911> device manager is confusing. sometimes it shows volumes, not disks.
522 2011-10-05 10:44:49 <JFK911> depending on where you look.
523 2011-10-05 10:44:55 <JFK911> the best way to find it is sort by conection
524 2011-10-05 10:45:01 <JFK911> then go computer -> pci bus -> ...
525 2011-10-05 10:45:29 <JFK911> diskmgmt.msc ought to show the disk?
526 2011-10-05 10:45:58 <TuxBlackEdo> it doesnt
527 2011-10-05 10:46:43 <JFK911> creepy
528 2011-10-05 10:46:50 <TuxBlackEdo> ok brb
529 2011-10-05 10:46:55 <TuxBlackEdo> booting into pmagic
530 2011-10-05 10:47:10 <JFK911> you dont have any raid controller funk?
531 2011-10-05 10:47:12 <snimpy> take care with it
532 2011-10-05 10:47:35 <JFK911> did that thing eat his wallet?
533 2011-10-05 10:48:02 <snimpy> i suggest to make an image b4 trying any repairs
534 2011-10-05 10:48:31 <snimpy> year, did it kill ur wallet?
535 2011-10-05 10:51:49 Habbie has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
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549 2011-10-05 11:00:45 coodod has joined
550 2011-10-05 11:00:49 <coodod> ok
551 2011-10-05 11:00:52 <coodod> so i am here
552 2011-10-05 11:01:00 <coodod> hard drive showed up in pmagic
553 2011-10-05 11:01:09 <coodod> and also smart test passed
554 2011-10-05 11:01:13 <sipa> good
555 2011-10-05 11:01:13 BurtyB has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
556 2011-10-05 11:01:17 <coodod> oh wow i think i owe someone some btc
557 2011-10-05 11:01:21 <coodod> hehe
558 2011-10-05 11:01:29 <gjs278> mount the partition
559 2011-10-05 11:01:30 <coodod> how do i back up this drive now?
560 2011-10-05 11:01:45 <coodod> yeah it is /dev/sda
561 2011-10-05 11:01:47 <gjs278> well
562 2011-10-05 11:01:54 <gjs278> how many partitions on /dev/sda are there
563 2011-10-05 11:01:57 <snimpy> u need a second hdd
564 2011-10-05 11:01:58 <gjs278> is it the only one
565 2011-10-05 11:02:05 <coodod> 1 i think
566 2011-10-05 11:02:07 <gjs278> ok
567 2011-10-05 11:02:08 <coodod> i do have a second hdd
568 2011-10-05 11:02:11 <gjs278> ok
569 2011-10-05 11:02:15 <coodod> can i burn cds or dvds
570 2011-10-05 11:02:17 <gjs278> is it /dev/sdb
571 2011-10-05 11:02:19 <gjs278> no
572 2011-10-05 11:02:19 <coodod> or even just pick files
573 2011-10-05 11:02:20 <gjs278> don't do that
574 2011-10-05 11:02:22 <gjs278> yes
575 2011-10-05 11:02:25 <gjs278> you can pick files
576 2011-10-05 11:02:32 <coodod> i can scp them?
577 2011-10-05 11:02:42 <gjs278> not from a livecd, you probably don't have inet
578 2011-10-05 11:02:52 <coodod> yes this is how i am here
579 2011-10-05 11:02:58 <coodod> it recognized my wireless card lol
580 2011-10-05 11:03:01 <gjs278> oh ok
581 2011-10-05 11:03:23 <gjs278> in a terminal, do
582 2011-10-05 11:03:23 <coodod> this os is nice
583 2011-10-05 11:03:24 <gjs278> sudo su
584 2011-10-05 11:03:29 <gjs278> then
585 2011-10-05 11:03:33 <coodod> already root
586 2011-10-05 11:03:35 <gjs278> mkdir /mnt/ssd
587 2011-10-05 11:03:41 <gjs278> mkdir /mnt/backup
588 2011-10-05 11:03:50 <gjs278> mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sda1 /mnt/ssd
589 2011-10-05 11:03:58 <gjs278> mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sdb1 /mnt/backup
590 2011-10-05 11:04:05 <coodod> wait
591 2011-10-05 11:04:18 <coodod> it just spit out the help info when i did the first mount command
592 2011-10-05 11:04:32 <coodod> oh forgot a space my bad
593 2011-10-05 11:04:36 <gjs278> oh ok
594 2011-10-05 11:04:47 <coodod> The disk contains an unclean file system (0, 0).
595 2011-10-05 11:04:47 <coodod> The file system wasn't safely closed on Windows. Fixing.
596 2011-10-05 11:04:50 <coodod> interesting
597 2011-10-05 11:05:07 <gjs278> yeah that's fine
598 2011-10-05 11:05:17 <coodod> now its hanging on that command, i wait?
599 2011-10-05 11:05:23 <gjs278> which command
600 2011-10-05 11:05:24 <gjs278> the first mount
601 2011-10-05 11:05:26 <gjs278> or second
602 2011-10-05 11:05:27 <coodod> first mount command
603 2011-10-05 11:05:45 <gjs278> just wait
604 2011-10-05 11:05:52 <coodod> normal?
605 2011-10-05 11:06:05 <gjs278> I've had it wait like a minute before
606 2011-10-05 11:06:13 <coodod> hey
607 2011-10-05 11:06:15 <coodod> it finished
608 2011-10-05 11:06:17 <gjs278> ok
609 2011-10-05 11:06:20 <coodod> let me do the second command
610 2011-10-05 11:06:23 <coodod> but wait
611 2011-10-05 11:06:28 <coodod> i need a second hd in here first
612 2011-10-05 11:06:32 <gjs278> ok
613 2011-10-05 11:06:34 <gjs278> well
614 2011-10-05 11:06:35 <gjs278> ls /mnt/ssd
615 2011-10-05 11:06:35 <coodod> right?
616 2011-10-05 11:06:37 <gjs278> see if your files are there
617 2011-10-05 11:06:47 <coodod> empty :(
618 2011-10-05 11:07:05 <gjs278> I would think the mount didn't work more than it is empty
619 2011-10-05 11:07:14 <coodod> mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sda1 /mnt/ssd
620 2011-10-05 11:07:17 <coodod> is what i am using
621 2011-10-05 11:07:23 <coodod> shouldnt i use sda0?
622 2011-10-05 11:07:31 <gjs278> nah, partitions start on 1
623 2011-10-05 11:07:43 <gjs278> it's the only partition on the drive right
624 2011-10-05 11:07:48 <coodod> yes
625 2011-10-05 11:07:54 <gjs278> yeah it would definitely be 1
626 2011-10-05 11:08:12 <gjs278> df -h
627 2011-10-05 11:08:16 <gjs278> what does it report the disk usage as
628 2011-10-05 11:08:27 <coodod> ilesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
629 2011-10-05 11:08:27 <coodod> /dev/sda1 100M 26M 75M 26% /mnt/ssd
630 2011-10-05 11:08:48 <coodod> http://pastebin.com/7ipjThGz
631 2011-10-05 11:08:48 <gjs278> dude
632 2011-10-05 11:08:50 <coodod> this is smart output
633 2011-10-05 11:08:55 <gjs278> that's your windows 7 boot partition
634 2011-10-05 11:08:57 <gjs278> the mini one
635 2011-10-05 11:08:59 <coodod> oh
636 2011-10-05 11:09:02 <coodod> my bad
637 2011-10-05 11:09:05 <gjs278> there's no way your main windows partition was 100m lol
638 2011-10-05 11:09:07 <gjs278> ok
639 2011-10-05 11:09:08 <gjs278> umount /mnt/ssd
640 2011-10-05 11:09:09 <coodod> hehe i guess i do have 2 partitions
641 2011-10-05 11:09:15 <gjs278> mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sda2 /mnt/ssd
642 2011-10-05 11:09:30 <coodod> Failed to mount '/dev/sda2': Input/output error
643 2011-10-05 11:09:30 <coodod> NTFS is either inconsistent, or there is a hardware fault, or it's a
644 2011-10-05 11:09:30 <coodod> SoftRAID/FakeRAID hardware. In the first case run chkdsk /f on Windows
645 2011-10-05 11:09:30 <coodod> then reboot into Windows twice. The usage of the /f parameter is very
646 2011-10-05 11:09:30 <coodod> important! If the device is a SoftRAID/FakeRAID then first activate
647 2011-10-05 11:09:31 <coodod> it and mount a different device under the /dev/mapper/ directory, (e.g.
648 2011-10-05 11:09:33 <coodod> /dev/mapper/nvidia_eahaabcc1). Please see the 'dmraid' documentation
649 2011-10-05 11:09:35 <coodod> for more details.
650 2011-10-05 11:09:45 <gjs278> were you by chance using a software raid on it
651 2011-10-05 11:09:54 <coodod> no..
652 2011-10-05 11:09:58 <gjs278> alright
653 2011-10-05 11:10:42 <gjs278> well, I would get the second drive in there first
654 2011-10-05 11:10:50 <gjs278> you don't want to mess with sda2 when it's spouting that back at you
655 2011-10-05 11:10:59 <coodod> can i do it without restarting?
656 2011-10-05 11:11:05 devrandom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
657 2011-10-05 11:11:06 random_cat has quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
658 2011-10-05 11:11:06 da2ce7 has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
659 2011-10-05 11:11:09 <gjs278> you can
660 2011-10-05 11:11:40 peck has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
661 2011-10-05 11:12:19 <coodod> yep
662 2011-10-05 11:12:24 <coodod> it loaded both drives
663 2011-10-05 11:12:29 <coodod> according to gsmartcontrol
664 2011-10-05 11:13:02 da2ce7 has joined
665 2011-10-05 11:13:23 <coodod> but now the first dive smart went off saying this: http://pastebin.com/KFK96a0s
666 2011-10-05 11:13:54 <gjs278> is there only one partition on disk 2
667 2011-10-05 11:13:55 zhoutong has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
668 2011-10-05 11:14:07 <coodod> 2 just like the other
669 2011-10-05 11:14:12 <gjs278> ok
670 2011-10-05 11:14:18 <gjs278> I'm guessing it is /dev/sdb2 then
671 2011-10-05 11:14:24 <coodod> yes
672 2011-10-05 11:14:28 <gjs278> mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sdb2 /mnt/backup
673 2011-10-05 11:14:44 zhoutong has joined
674 2011-10-05 11:15:10 <coodod> that worked
675 2011-10-05 11:15:13 <coodod> and showed files
676 2011-10-05 11:15:18 <gjs278> ok
677 2011-10-05 11:15:21 <gjs278> you want to do
678 2011-10-05 11:15:29 <coodod> also it did the "unclean file system" error again
679 2011-10-05 11:15:41 <gjs278> dd if=/dev/sda2 of=/mnt/backup/ssd-image.img
680 2011-10-05 11:15:51 <gjs278> that will clone your ssd partition to an image file on the second disk
681 2011-10-05 11:16:13 <coodod> root@PartedMagic:~# dd if=/dev/sda2 of=/mnt/backup/ssd-image.img
682 2011-10-05 11:16:13 <coodod> dd: reading `/dev/sda2': Input/output error
683 2011-10-05 11:16:14 <coodod> 0+0 records in
684 2011-10-05 11:16:14 <coodod> 0+0 records out
685 2011-10-05 11:16:14 <coodod> 0 bytes (0 B) copied, 0.000449127 s, 0.0 kB/s
686 2011-10-05 11:16:22 <gjs278> ow
687 2011-10-05 11:16:54 <gjs278> dd if=/dev/sda of=/mnt/backup/ssd-image.img
688 2011-10-05 11:16:55 <gjs278> try that
689 2011-10-05 11:17:10 <gjs278> I don't think it will have that much more luck though
690 2011-10-05 11:17:10 <coodod> same error
691 2011-10-05 11:17:30 <gjs278> well
692 2011-10-05 11:17:57 <gjs278> you can try disconnecting/reconnecting the ssd and then doing that again
693 2011-10-05 11:18:03 <coodod> ok
694 2011-10-05 11:18:06 <gjs278> but for right now it can't read anything off of the disk
695 2011-10-05 11:18:49 peck has joined
696 2011-10-05 11:19:51 <coodod> a restart maybe
697 2011-10-05 11:20:05 <coodod> because I can't even get /dev/sda1 to mount
698 2011-10-05 11:20:07 <coodod> brb
699 2011-10-05 11:21:20 RazielZ has joined
700 2011-10-05 11:23:10 AlexWaters has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
701 2011-10-05 11:23:40 Beremat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
702 2011-10-05 11:24:45 coodod has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
703 2011-10-05 11:25:56 zhoutong has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
704 2011-10-05 11:27:00 zhoutong has joined
705 2011-10-05 11:27:45 nfnrrhr has joined
706 2011-10-05 11:27:47 random_cat has joined
707 2011-10-05 11:27:48 <nfnrrhr> hey
708 2011-10-05 11:27:52 <nfnrrhr> what was that command again?
709 2011-10-05 11:28:16 <nfnrrhr> it's really weird but when i boot up it says "basic health check: passed"
710 2011-10-05 11:28:21 <gjs278> lol
711 2011-10-05 11:28:23 <gjs278> ok
712 2011-10-05 11:28:24 AlexWaters has joined
713 2011-10-05 11:28:26 <nfnrrhr> and it tells me the name of my hd
714 2011-10-05 11:28:31 <nfnrrhr> and everything
715 2011-10-05 11:28:35 <gjs278> mkdir /mnt/backup
716 2011-10-05 11:28:57 <gjs278> mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sdb2 /mnt/backup
717 2011-10-05 11:29:12 <gjs278> ls that and make sure it has files in it so it's definitely drive #2
718 2011-10-05 11:29:27 <nfnrrhr> yep
719 2011-10-05 11:29:41 <gjs278> ok
720 2011-10-05 11:29:54 <gjs278> dd if=/dev/sda2 of=/mnt/backup/ssd-image.img
721 2011-10-05 11:31:23 <nfnrrhr> input output error
722 2011-10-05 11:31:24 zhoutong has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
723 2011-10-05 11:31:36 <gjs278> 0 bytes?
724 2011-10-05 11:31:40 <nfnrrhr> yep
725 2011-10-05 11:31:51 <gjs278> yeah you're not going to have much luck with dd on that thing
726 2011-10-05 11:32:08 <sipa> mounting doesn't work?
727 2011-10-05 11:32:24 zhoutong has joined
728 2011-10-05 11:32:27 <gjs278> [05:58] <gjs278> mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sda2 /mnt/ssd
729 2011-10-05 11:32:28 <gjs278> [05:58] <coodod> Failed to mount '/dev/sda2': Input/output error
730 2011-10-05 11:32:41 <sipa> dd has the conv=noerror option
731 2011-10-05 11:32:45 <sipa> to skip errors
732 2011-10-05 11:33:32 TiggrBot has joined
733 2011-10-05 11:34:06 paul0 has joined
734 2011-10-05 11:34:48 Dagger3 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
735 2011-10-05 11:35:00 <nfnrrhr> whoa
736 2011-10-05 11:35:03 t3a has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
737 2011-10-05 11:35:04 <nfnrrhr> i just dd the noerror
738 2011-10-05 11:35:20 <gjs278> yeah it probably gave you over 9000 messages
739 2011-10-05 11:35:22 <nfnrrhr> and it just is stuck in a loop of "input/output error"s
740 2011-10-05 11:35:57 <nfnrrhr> brb
741 2011-10-05 11:36:03 nfnrrhr has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
742 2011-10-05 11:39:06 Dagger3 has joined
743 2011-10-05 11:39:06 ArmittK has quit ()
744 2011-10-05 11:39:18 KArmitt has joined
745 2011-10-05 11:41:19 fdassad has joined
746 2011-10-05 11:42:24 <fdassad> hmm
747 2011-10-05 11:42:28 <fdassad> i think its copying
748 2011-10-05 11:42:39 <fdassad> is the dd command not supposed to have any output?
749 2011-10-05 11:42:58 <gjs278> it has no output until it is done
750 2011-10-05 11:43:08 <fdassad> i think you saved my ass
751 2011-10-05 11:43:21 <fdassad> i will live up to my promise
752 2011-10-05 11:43:30 <fdassad> my usual nick is TuxBlackEdo
753 2011-10-05 11:43:39 <fdassad> i aint even kidding
754 2011-10-05 11:43:51 <fdassad> i think its working
755 2011-10-05 11:43:55 <sipa> you can go to another terminal
756 2011-10-05 11:43:59 <sipa> and type
757 2011-10-05 11:44:04 <sipa> killall -USR1 dd
758 2011-10-05 11:44:05 <gjs278> yeah the sigkill thing
759 2011-10-05 11:44:20 <sipa> that'll make it report its status
760 2011-10-05 11:44:39 <fdassad> i just did a ls -lh and saw the file is growing
761 2011-10-05 11:44:45 <fdassad> thats all the confirmation i need
762 2011-10-05 11:45:05 <fdassad> or should i do the killall command?
763 2011-10-05 11:45:09 <gjs278> nah
764 2011-10-05 11:45:09 <sipa> you may
765 2011-10-05 11:45:20 <fdassad> thanks guys
766 2011-10-05 11:45:22 <gjs278> you can already see the rate, you know it's 80gb
767 2011-10-05 11:45:26 <fdassad> yep
768 2011-10-05 11:45:52 <fdassad> as soon as this is done
769 2011-10-05 11:46:00 <fdassad> i am going to take the hard drive
770 2011-10-05 11:46:04 <fdassad> and run it over with my car hehe
771 2011-10-05 11:46:10 <diki> so
772 2011-10-05 11:46:13 <gjs278> dude
773 2011-10-05 11:46:14 <diki> i tried making a php script
774 2011-10-05 11:46:16 <fdassad> ssd sucks so much
775 2011-10-05 11:46:19 <gjs278> those intels that 3 year warranties
776 2011-10-05 11:46:23 <gjs278> have
777 2011-10-05 11:46:28 <fdassad> yeah x-25m ssd
778 2011-10-05 11:47:06 KArmitt has quit ()
779 2011-10-05 11:47:42 <snimpy> the question is: will it blend? a car will not do it
780 2011-10-05 11:47:57 CryptoX has joined
781 2011-10-05 11:50:13 <fdassad> i cannot express the gratitude i have right now
782 2011-10-05 11:50:14 zhoutong has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
783 2011-10-05 11:50:59 zhoutong has joined
784 2011-10-05 11:51:34 <fdassad> i have production source code files here that arent backed up anywhere else 5 years of work
785 2011-10-05 11:51:55 <gjs278> lol
786 2011-10-05 11:52:09 <sipa> you may want to consider backups
787 2011-10-05 11:52:59 <fdassad> ssd-image is 2.1gb.. 77.9 left
788 2011-10-05 11:53:17 <snimpy> backups? hasn't apple the patent od backups?
789 2011-10-05 11:53:21 <snimpy> or was it samsung?
790 2011-10-05 11:53:23 <snimpy> lol
791 2011-10-05 11:54:36 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
792 2011-10-05 11:55:21 <snimpy> i once thought ssd were much more reliable than normal hdd, because of no moving parts.
793 2011-10-05 11:55:41 <fdassad> that's what i thought
794 2011-10-05 11:55:46 <gjs278> the controllers fail
795 2011-10-05 11:56:02 <fdassad> i hope i am not just backing up a bunch of 0s
796 2011-10-05 11:56:15 <fdassad> can I tail the .img file somehow?
797 2011-10-05 11:56:17 <snimpy> well, they have no moving parts. too...
798 2011-10-05 11:56:39 <gjs278> it's creating an image file, when it's done you can mount that file. for now though, there's no good way of seeing what is inside of it
799 2011-10-05 11:56:59 <fdassad> ah ok looks like ill be waiting
800 2011-10-05 11:57:07 <gjs278> are you doing conv=noerror right now
801 2011-10-05 11:57:24 <gjs278> oh nvm you said there was no output
802 2011-10-05 11:57:26 <gjs278> so you're good then
803 2011-10-05 11:57:32 <gjs278> if there was output you'd be seeing it nonstop
804 2011-10-05 11:58:31 <fdassad> yeah i am just doing the command regular without the noerror argument
805 2011-10-05 11:58:48 <gjs278> are you backing up to like a usb drive or something
806 2011-10-05 11:58:52 <gjs278> the rate seems pretty slow
807 2011-10-05 11:59:57 t3a has joined
808 2011-10-05 12:00:05 <fdassad> to another ssd :-/
809 2011-10-05 12:00:11 <gjs278> lol
810 2011-10-05 12:00:16 <fdassad> lol
811 2011-10-05 12:00:21 <gjs278> how big is the second one
812 2011-10-05 12:00:24 <fdassad> 110gb
813 2011-10-05 12:00:27 <gjs278> ok
814 2011-10-05 12:00:32 <gjs278> you do have 80gb free though right
815 2011-10-05 12:00:42 <fdassad> not sure
816 2011-10-05 12:00:46 <gjs278> df -h
817 2011-10-05 12:00:48 <gjs278> and make sure
818 2011-10-05 12:00:55 <gjs278> otherwise the dd will run out of room eventually
819 2011-10-05 12:00:58 <fdassad> /dev/sdb2 120G 45G 75G 38% /mnt/backup
820 2011-10-05 12:01:13 <gjs278> well
821 2011-10-05 12:01:16 <gjs278> how big is the image now
822 2011-10-05 12:01:18 <gjs278> you may just cut it
823 2011-10-05 12:01:22 <fdassad> can i delete pagefile.sys?
824 2011-10-05 12:01:35 <fdassad> 4gb of extra space
825 2011-10-05 12:01:37 <gjs278> windows will recreate it
826 2011-10-05 12:01:39 <gjs278> so yeah
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828 2011-10-05 12:02:43 da2ce7 has joined
829 2011-10-05 12:03:30 <fdassad> rm -rf prog files/steam gave me some space
830 2011-10-05 12:03:40 <fdassad> 84gb now according to df -h
831 2011-10-05 12:03:45 <fdassad> should be good now
832 2011-10-05 12:04:23 <fdassad> thats with the 4.3gb file with it
833 2011-10-05 12:04:25 <gjs278> yeah you're okay then
834 2011-10-05 12:04:33 <fdassad> yep :)
835 2011-10-05 12:05:15 <fdassad> i like this is, what is it ubuntu or debian?
836 2011-10-05 12:05:54 <gjs278> not sure
837 2011-10-05 12:05:56 * fdassad is at 4.7gb
838 2011-10-05 12:06:07 robblesz has quit (Quit: .)
839 2011-10-05 12:06:47 <gjs278> that is hilariously slow for an ssd
840 2011-10-05 12:06:58 <gjs278> is the backup drive an intel
841 2011-10-05 12:07:13 <gjs278> I swear that thing has to be indilinux to be writing 4.7gb in this time
842 2011-10-05 12:07:14 <fdassad> the broken drive is the intel x-25m
843 2011-10-05 12:07:30 <gjs278> yeah what's the backup drive
844 2011-10-05 12:07:32 <fdassad> the backup drive is an ocz drive
845 2011-10-05 12:07:34 <gjs278> ok
846 2011-10-05 12:07:40 <gjs278> is it like first generation ocz
847 2011-10-05 12:07:54 <fdassad> ocz ability or something like that
848 2011-10-05 12:07:59 <gjs278> lol agility
849 2011-10-05 12:08:01 MichaelBurge has joined
850 2011-10-05 12:08:07 <fdassad> hehe
851 2011-10-05 12:09:33 <gjs278> yeah I can definitely tell why it's taking that long, it's an indilinux controller
852 2011-10-05 12:10:02 <fdassad> hey it works, hdd light blinking and all
853 2011-10-05 12:10:15 <fdassad> so i am not complaining
854 2011-10-05 12:13:24 <fdassad> 6.1gb
855 2011-10-05 12:15:46 FellowTraveler1 has joined
856 2011-10-05 12:15:52 FellowTraveler1 has quit (Client Quit)
857 2011-10-05 12:16:40 <fdassad> wow southparkstudios.com works on this os
858 2011-10-05 12:19:24 FellowTraveler has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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870 2011-10-05 12:35:15 TD[gone] is now known as TD
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886 2011-10-05 12:53:45 enquirer_ is now known as enquirer
887 2011-10-05 12:56:07 <snimpy> ;;bc,diff
888 2011-10-05 12:56:08 <gribble> 1689334.4045971
889 2011-10-05 12:56:15 Sedra has joined
890 2011-10-05 12:56:40 <snimpy> ;;bc,nethash
891 2011-10-05 12:56:40 <gribble> 10502.143616547646
892 2011-10-05 12:57:38 <snimpy> ;;bc,convert eur
893 2011-10-05 12:57:39 <gribble> 1 BTC = 4.925 US dollars = 3.7019 euros
894 2011-10-05 12:58:57 <fdassad> ;;bc,diffchange
895 2011-10-05 12:58:59 <gribble> Estimated percent change in difficulty this period | -9.37754979854 % based on data since last change | -13.1545460284 % based on data for last three days
896 2011-10-05 12:59:28 larsivi has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
897 2011-10-05 12:59:51 <fdassad> gjs278, you there?
898 2011-10-05 12:59:55 <gjs278> yeah
899 2011-10-05 13:00:03 larsivi has joined
900 2011-10-05 13:00:24 <fdassad> root@PartedMagic:~# dd if=/dev/sda2 of=/mnt/backup/ssd-image.img
901 2011-10-05 13:00:24 <fdassad> dd: reading `/dev/sda2': Input/output error
902 2011-10-05 13:00:24 <fdassad> 31831408+0 records in
903 2011-10-05 13:00:24 <fdassad> 31831408+0 records out
904 2011-10-05 13:00:24 <fdassad> 16297680896 bytes (16 GB) copied, 4202.88 s, 3.9 MB/s
905 2011-10-05 13:00:30 <fdassad> only 16gb copied
906 2011-10-05 13:00:32 shadders has joined
907 2011-10-05 13:00:36 <gjs278> ugh
908 2011-10-05 13:00:56 <fdassad> it might have been because i moved it
909 2011-10-05 13:01:03 <gjs278> what'd you move exactly
910 2011-10-05 13:01:10 <fdassad> the laptop
911 2011-10-05 13:01:14 <gjs278> eh
912 2011-10-05 13:01:15 <gjs278> probably not
913 2011-10-05 13:01:18 <fdassad> the hdds arent secured either
914 2011-10-05 13:01:23 Lykkepillen has joined
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916 2011-10-05 13:01:43 <fdassad> can i look at ssd-image.img?
917 2011-10-05 13:01:47 <fdassad> even if it only got 16gb
918 2011-10-05 13:01:51 <gjs278> you can try and mount it
919 2011-10-05 13:01:55 <gjs278> you need to do
920 2011-10-05 13:02:02 <gjs278> mkdir /mnt/mount
921 2011-10-05 13:02:20 <gjs278> mount -o loop -t ntfs /mnt/backup/ssd-image.img /mnt/mount
922 2011-10-05 13:02:32 <Lykkepillen> I'm having problems running "bitcoind" x64 on my Debian 5 server - Tells me : ./bitcoind: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: version `GLIBCXX_3.4.11' not found (required by ./bitcoind), but libstdc++.so.6 is installed
923 2011-10-05 13:02:32 <gjs278> I don't have high hopes for that working though
924 2011-10-05 13:04:02 Tamo has joined
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926 2011-10-05 13:04:29 <fdassad> gjs278, http://pastebin.com/tyKnMrME
927 2011-10-05 13:04:39 <fdassad> "Failed to read last sector (156092415): Invalid argument"
928 2011-10-05 13:04:47 <gjs278> yeah
929 2011-10-05 13:05:00 <fdassad> should i try it again and see if it goes past that part?
930 2011-10-05 13:05:01 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
931 2011-10-05 13:05:02 <fdassad> or actually
932 2011-10-05 13:05:08 <fdassad> the noerror thing should work?
933 2011-10-05 13:05:16 danbri has joined
934 2011-10-05 13:05:17 <gjs278> you can try but it's going to pickup at the very start
935 2011-10-05 13:05:53 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
936 2011-10-05 13:06:42 <gjs278> you can also try and do
937 2011-10-05 13:06:47 <gjs278> mount -t ntfs /dev/sda2 /mnt/ssd
938 2011-10-05 13:06:52 <gjs278> and see if there are any files listed in it
939 2011-10-05 13:07:02 <gjs278> just ntfs, not 3g
940 2011-10-05 13:07:10 <gjs278> and just try copying out what you need
941 2011-10-05 13:07:20 <gjs278> that's assuming it mounts at all
942 2011-10-05 13:07:22 <fdassad> ntfs-3g-mount: failed to access mountpoint /mnt/ssd: No such file or directory
943 2011-10-05 13:07:29 <gjs278> mkdir /mnt/ssd
944 2011-10-05 13:07:30 <gjs278> then do that
945 2011-10-05 13:08:58 <fdassad> input output error
946 2011-10-05 13:08:58 zhoutong has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
947 2011-10-05 13:09:31 <fdassad> wow now the dd command doesnt work either
948 2011-10-05 13:09:34 <gjs278> yeah
949 2011-10-05 13:09:37 <gjs278> the drive probably dropped
950 2011-10-05 13:09:44 <gjs278> did dd just randomly work
951 2011-10-05 13:09:48 <gjs278> after a reboot or something?
952 2011-10-05 13:09:50 zhoutong has joined
953 2011-10-05 13:10:19 <fdassad> yes
954 2011-10-05 13:10:25 <gjs278> well
955 2011-10-05 13:10:31 <fdassad> brb :)
956 2011-10-05 13:10:34 <gjs278> you can try that and just do a straight mount instead of dd
957 2011-10-05 13:10:40 <gjs278> maybe get a bunch of files at a time
958 2011-10-05 13:11:12 fdassad has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
959 2011-10-05 13:12:20 <Lykkepillen> I'm having problems running "bitcoind" x64 on my Debian 5 server - Tells me: http://pastebin.com/zcEQywkt but libstdc++.so.6 is installed. Can anyone help me? :)
960 2011-10-05 13:12:22 erle- has joined
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963 2011-10-05 13:13:09 <sipa> Lykkepillen: it's probably compiled for a newer version
964 2011-10-05 13:13:20 <sipa> Lykkepillen: you can try rebulding it yourself
965 2011-10-05 13:14:02 <Lykkepillen> I need some explanation to do that, maybe a guide if possible? Never tried something like it before :)
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975 2011-10-05 13:27:01 <lxdsfs> yeah so i did that and it didn't mount anything
976 2011-10-05 13:27:10 <lxdsfs> back to the dd?
977 2011-10-05 13:28:07 <lxdsfs> gjs278, "conv=noerror,sync" or "conv=noerror"?
978 2011-10-05 13:28:21 <snimpy> ;;calc 100 USD in EUR
979 2011-10-05 13:28:22 <gribble> 100 US dollars = 75.1654 euros
980 2011-10-05 13:29:39 <snimpy> ;;calc 500 EUR in USD
981 2011-10-05 13:29:39 <gribble> 500 euros = 667.6000 US dollars
982 2011-10-05 13:30:02 <snimpy> ;;bc,nethash
983 2011-10-05 13:30:03 <gribble> 10502.143616547646
984 2011-10-05 13:30:11 MrT has joined
985 2011-10-05 13:30:12 <snimpy> ;;ticker
986 2011-10-05 13:30:13 <mizerydearia> See #bitcoin-tickers (or #bitcoin-tickers-???, replace ??? with one of aud,bgn,brl,cad,chf,eur,gbp,hkd,inr,jpy,nzd,pln,rub,sek,sgd,sll,thb,usd,zar)
987 2011-10-05 13:30:13 <gribble> Best bid: 4.9, Best ask: 4.901, Bid-ask spread: 0.000999999999999, Last trade: 4.901, 24 hour volume: 17782, 24 hour low: 4.88, 24 hour high: 5.025
988 2011-10-05 13:30:24 MrT has quit (Client Quit)
989 2011-10-05 13:30:54 <snimpy> ;;bc,stats
990 2011-10-05 13:30:57 <gribble> Current Blocks: 148160 | Current Difficulty: 1689334.4045971 | Next Difficulty At Block: 149183 | Next Difficulty In: 1023 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 20 hours, 7 minutes, and 6 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1532309.44372516 | Estimated Percent Change: -9.29507860875
991 2011-10-05 13:31:05 AStove has joined
992 2011-10-05 13:31:09 BCBot has joined
993 2011-10-05 13:31:34 <gjs278> sync will fill the gaps
994 2011-10-05 13:31:42 <snimpy> ;;bc,slushpool
995 2011-10-05 13:31:43 <gribble> 1327102000
996 2011-10-05 13:31:46 <gjs278> if the drive drops though, they'll both be unhelpful
997 2011-10-05 13:32:00 <snimpy> ;;bc,btcguild
998 2011-10-05 13:32:02 <gribble> 1776795000
999 2011-10-05 13:32:02 <gjs278> you can try your luck with dd though
1000 2011-10-05 13:32:16 <snimpy> ;;bc,deepbit
1001 2011-10-05 13:32:17 <gribble> 4306771000
1002 2011-10-05 13:32:19 <gjs278> and hope for an 80gb stretch of the drive staying online
1003 2011-10-05 13:32:22 <lxdsfs> should i do "conv=noerror,sync" or without sync?
1004 2011-10-05 13:32:33 <Graet> ;;bc,ozcoin
1005 2011-10-05 13:32:36 <gribble> 72019000
1006 2011-10-05 13:32:38 Tamo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1007 2011-10-05 13:32:45 <lxdsfs> i decided to secure the drive now
1008 2011-10-05 13:32:50 <snimpy> ;;bc,avgprc
1009 2011-10-05 13:32:51 <gribble> {"USD": {"7d": "4.9269", "30d": "5.5750", "24h": "4.9083"}, "GBP": {"7d": "3.1974", "30d": "3.5464", "24h": "3.2465"}, "DKK": {"30d": "35.6897"}, "CAD": {"7d": "5.1615", "30d": "5.9293", "24h": "5.3168"}, "HUF": {"30d": "1105.3481"}, "UAH": {"30d": "43.5057"}, "SEK": {"7d": "33.4466", "30d": "35.1966"}, "SGD": {"7d": "6.5771", "30d": "6.8073"}, "HKD": {"7d": "39.9175", "30d": "43.2156"}, (2 more messages)
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1020 2011-10-05 13:43:21 slowbackup has joined
1021 2011-10-05 13:43:53 <slowbackup> ok it's started again hopefully this time ill get all of it
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1024 2011-10-05 13:52:54 <Lykkepillen> Anyone having luck with mining bitcoins on Debian 5 x64?
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1037 2011-10-05 14:17:03 Guest4864 is now known as MagicalTux
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1040 2011-10-05 14:19:27 c00w has joined
1041 2011-10-05 14:26:17 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr master * r3552497 / src/bitcoinrpc.cpp : Send "Connection: close" HTTP header with JSON-RPC requests (client) - http://git.io/f73j-A
1042 2011-10-05 14:26:49 g2x3k has joined
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1044 2011-10-05 14:33:59 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r9ec4fa7 / src/net.cpp :
1045 2011-10-05 14:33:59 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Merge pull request #561 from luke-jr/optimize_conn_adjtime
1046 2011-10-05 14:33:59 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Only GetAdjustedTime once for the retry loop - http://git.io/z1C55Q
1047 2011-10-05 14:34:05 slowbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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1051 2011-10-05 14:38:52 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r8bc52d0 / src/net.cpp :
1052 2011-10-05 14:38:52 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Merge pull request #558 from luke-jr/bugfix_CreateThread_ThreadSocketHandler_errReporting
1053 2011-10-05 14:38:52 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Bugfix: ThreadSocketHandler creation error - http://git.io/Emu1cA
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1065 2011-10-05 14:51:35 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * rb898c8f / (28 files in 5 dirs): Merge branch 'no-cryptopp' of https://github.com/tcatm/bitcoin - http://git.io/0C37sg
1066 2011-10-05 14:52:04 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * rff3b235 / src/db.cpp :
1067 2011-10-05 14:52:04 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Merge pull request #545 from tcatm/remove-addr.txt
1068 2011-10-05 14:52:04 <CIA-101> bitcoin: remove code that reads addr.txt in LoadAddreses() - http://git.io/rUxPXQ
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1073 2011-10-05 15:06:18 michaelmclees has joined
1074 2011-10-05 15:07:13 <michaelmclees> Hi guys, I just wanted to float an idea out there.
1075 2011-10-05 15:07:29 <michaelmclees> All I want to know is if off the cuff, a few people here think it is possible.
1076 2011-10-05 15:07:53 <michaelmclees> I am not a coder, programmer, etc.. so I don't know how these things work.
1077 2011-10-05 15:08:16 <UukGoblin> "if off the cuff"?
1078 2011-10-05 15:08:36 <michaelmclees> If you think it is possible without giving it lots of thought.
1079 2011-10-05 15:08:43 iddo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1080 2011-10-05 15:08:56 <UukGoblin> what's "if off the cuff"?
1081 2011-10-05 15:10:13 <michaelmclees> First, if I understand BTC correctly, the general parameters for payout, coin generation, etc... happens the way it does because a majority of the users agree to the rules.
1082 2011-10-05 15:10:18 iddo has joined
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1084 2011-10-05 15:11:02 <iz> because all the users agree to the rules
1085 2011-10-05 15:11:03 <michaelmclees> And if someone modified the code in a way that a majority of users found to be acceptable, from that point on, those parameters would hold.
1086 2011-10-05 15:11:12 <UukGoblin> yeah, because Satoshi implemented it this way, because it makes some sense, and because everyone accepted it
1087 2011-10-05 15:11:12 <iz> not the majority
1088 2011-10-05 15:11:18 MrTiggr is now known as MrTiggrAFK
1089 2011-10-05 15:11:27 <iz> if you don't obey the rules, you aren't part of that blockchain anymore
1090 2011-10-05 15:12:05 <michaelmclees> So you fork the chain and everyone else keeps working on the original, correct?
1091 2011-10-05 15:12:11 <iz> but yeah.. anyone can modify the code and try to make their own bitcoin
1092 2011-10-05 15:12:25 <iz> yeah, your stuff will get rejected
1093 2011-10-05 15:13:06 <michaelmclees> So any fundamental changes are best left for new chains?
1094 2011-10-05 15:13:11 <UukGoblin> (and there are different levels of rules)
1095 2011-10-05 15:13:26 rhl has joined
1096 2011-10-05 15:13:49 <iz> yeah.. there are different rules.. but the stuff having to do w/ payment or coin generation would certainly be some things that would be in that category
1097 2011-10-05 15:13:52 <UukGoblin> (some stuff like transaction fees aren't part of these rules)
1098 2011-10-05 15:14:11 <iz> fundamental changes can be made way in advance, if everyone agrees on the changes
1099 2011-10-05 15:14:19 zapnap has joined
1100 2011-10-05 15:14:43 <iz> like.. make the change in the client code, which will take effect at block #X, which is several months in the future
1101 2011-10-05 15:14:47 <michaelmclees> OK, well suppose one writes in some code so that after block X, users are able to have a kind of savings account.
1102 2011-10-05 15:14:52 Lykkepillen has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1103 2011-10-05 15:15:20 <iz> you mean like bitcoin accounts?
1104 2011-10-05 15:15:27 <michaelmclees> Which generates BTC apart from the normal generation.
1105 2011-10-05 15:15:33 <iz> oh
1106 2011-10-05 15:15:40 <nathan7> that makes no sense
1107 2011-10-05 15:15:43 <iz> well, that has nothing to do w/ the bitcoin client
1108 2011-10-05 15:15:53 <iz> there could be a bitcoin bank, that is totally seperate
1109 2011-10-05 15:16:05 <nathan7> michaelmclees: You know how interest works?
1110 2011-10-05 15:16:14 <iz> which loans bitcoins to ppl and pays intreset to ppl who give them bitcoins
1111 2011-10-05 15:16:18 <nathan7> The bank uses your cash to invest in things.
1112 2011-10-05 15:16:25 <nathan7> Such as loans and stock.
1113 2011-10-05 15:16:26 <michaelmclees> yes, I know how interest works.
1114 2011-10-05 15:16:45 <nathan7> So where is the interest supposed to come from in your thing?
1115 2011-10-05 15:16:57 <UukGoblin> extra generations, I suppose
1116 2011-10-05 15:17:03 <michaelmclees> Here's the thing, for the average consumer in a bank, they don't feel the investment part.
1117 2011-10-05 15:17:11 <nathan7> Yes..
1118 2011-10-05 15:17:24 <iz> yeah, well.. also those accounts are FDIC insured by the federal govt
1119 2011-10-05 15:17:25 <michaelmclees> So the perception is that leaving money alone increases it.
1120 2011-10-05 15:17:45 <iz> if they weren't ppl would be way more attentive to them
1121 2011-10-05 15:17:46 <nathan7> The dumb masses, eh?
1122 2011-10-05 15:17:46 <michaelmclees> This is merely making that common perception, the actual system.
1123 2011-10-05 15:17:50 <UukGoblin> michaelmclees, yes, let's suppose someone made such a change. What's the question?
1124 2011-10-05 15:18:09 <michaelmclees> The question is, is such a thing possible?
1125 2011-10-05 15:18:19 <nathan7> If you'd do that, everyone would do it
1126 2011-10-05 15:18:19 <UukGoblin> yes
1127 2011-10-05 15:18:31 <iz> is what possible? making money from nothing with 0 risk?
1128 2011-10-05 15:18:38 <UukGoblin> it's possible but it's unlikely people would just follow your chain (accept the change)
1129 2011-10-05 15:18:56 <nathan7> and bitcoins would lose value proportional to the interest.
1130 2011-10-05 15:18:58 <michaelmclees> the rules could be such that you're required to take money out of the market for X # of blocks.
1131 2011-10-05 15:19:01 <UukGoblin> although alternate chains don't stop to amaze me with popularity
1132 2011-10-05 15:19:27 <UukGoblin> michaelmclees, imho, it's possible, but pointless
1133 2011-10-05 15:19:33 <michaelmclees> as long as the interest rate were low enough, such a scheme could still be deflationary.
1134 2011-10-05 15:19:43 <iz> lol, no that's wrong
1135 2011-10-05 15:19:49 <UukGoblin> michaelmclees, if bitcoin works how it's supposed to, just leaving your bitcoins in your regular account should increase their value
1136 2011-10-05 15:20:15 <michaelmclees> This is meant as a hedge.
1137 2011-10-05 15:20:38 <michaelmclees> So far, if you think the exchange rate is going down, you exchange for cash and buy back later.
1138 2011-10-05 15:20:51 <michaelmclees> This allows you to get more later, without having to deal with an exchange.
1139 2011-10-05 15:21:17 <iz> but for that to work.. SOMEONE has to deal w/ that exchange
1140 2011-10-05 15:21:30 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * re9e7bb9 / (doc/build-osx.txt src/makefile.osx): Update mac Makefile and build instructions to use MacPorts - http://git.io/v9GI1g
1141 2011-10-05 15:21:34 <michaelmclees> If you think the value is going to go up and you want access to your coins, better not put them in the savings part of the wallet.
1142 2011-10-05 15:21:34 <iz> someone has to take the risk of losing money
1143 2011-10-05 15:22:34 <iz> so for that to work.. the "savings" part of the wallet would have to be money that special bitcoin investors have access too
1144 2011-10-05 15:22:36 <iz> to
1145 2011-10-05 15:22:47 <iz> and if they lose your money.. sorry.. too bad
1146 2011-10-05 15:22:48 <michaelmclees> no
1147 2011-10-05 15:23:12 <michaelmclees> you keep the money, but you've no access until the block you entered is reached
1148 2011-10-05 15:23:20 <iz> i don't understand how you think you can just award % interest to bitcoins that aren't being used
1149 2011-10-05 15:23:36 <UukGoblin> michaelmclees, sure you could do it
1150 2011-10-05 15:23:54 <UukGoblin> michaelmclees, but think about it, is it really needed? is it worth forking the chain just for that change?
1151 2011-10-05 15:24:02 <UukGoblin> nope.
1152 2011-10-05 15:24:34 <UukGoblin> your proposed change would also imply that the total amount of bitcoins in circulation would become unknown
1153 2011-10-05 15:24:35 <michaelmclees> well, let's see
1154 2011-10-05 15:24:38 <nathan7> michaelmclees: if you can gain coins without any work being done, they lose value proportionally to the coins gained
1155 2011-10-05 15:24:38 <iz> also, it allows bitcoin to self destruct
1156 2011-10-05 15:25:00 <michaelmclees> it allows a kind of investment without involving anyone else
1157 2011-10-05 15:25:03 <iz> and it takes bitcoins out of circulation
1158 2011-10-05 15:25:11 <michaelmclees> the value you're adding is taking them out of circulation
1159 2011-10-05 15:25:13 <iz> and then arbitrarily increases their value for no reason
1160 2011-10-05 15:25:28 <michaelmclees> increases their quantity
1161 2011-10-05 15:25:35 <iz> let's say 90% of the bitcoins go into "savings"
1162 2011-10-05 15:25:43 AlexWaters1 has joined
1163 2011-10-05 15:25:45 <michaelmclees> for the reason that you volunteered to take x amount out of hte market
1164 2011-10-05 15:25:46 AlexWaters has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1165 2011-10-05 15:25:49 <iz> because ppl want to save their bitcoin earnings and make some interest
1166 2011-10-05 15:25:58 <michaelmclees> ok
1167 2011-10-05 15:26:06 <iz> what happens next in this thought experiment?
1168 2011-10-05 15:26:21 <UukGoblin> a value of a bitcoin goes x10
1169 2011-10-05 15:26:23 <iz> when 90% of the bitcoins are locked up for the next 500 blocks?
1170 2011-10-05 15:26:24 <UukGoblin> then after a year
1171 2011-10-05 15:26:28 <UukGoblin> it goes /11
1172 2011-10-05 15:26:50 <michaelmclees> Might create a bubble, sure.
1173 2011-10-05 15:26:57 <UukGoblin> (10 plus the devaluation made by creating new coins)
1174 2011-10-05 15:28:01 <iz> i don't think you can just arbitrarily print money like that w/out destabilizing the currency terribly
1175 2011-10-05 15:28:26 <UukGoblin> such imaginary currency would be unstable enough to start with
1176 2011-10-05 15:28:27 c00w has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1177 2011-10-05 15:28:31 <nathan7> UukGoblin: at some point we hit peak coin though
1178 2011-10-05 15:29:06 <iz> maybe
1179 2011-10-05 15:29:27 <iz> if everyone keep mining that long
1180 2011-10-05 15:31:53 <michaelmclees> I guess that's the answer then I was looking for.
1181 2011-10-05 15:32:02 <michaelmclees> Possible. Probably pointless.
1182 2011-10-05 15:32:27 <michaelmclees> Certainly comes with consequences that can't be predicted.
1183 2011-10-05 15:32:45 iocor has joined
1184 2011-10-05 15:32:57 <iz> yeah, i'd agree w/ that
1185 2011-10-05 15:34:49 <luke-jr> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=46919.0
1186 2011-10-05 15:35:24 BlueMatt has joined
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1189 2011-10-05 15:36:46 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: so...whats left for 0.5?
1190 2011-10-05 15:37:33 <gavinandresen> good question; nothing major, I think
1191 2011-10-05 15:38:20 <gavinandresen> sipa's import/export keys patch isn't in, but I haven't heard that it is 100% ready
1192 2011-10-05 15:38:52 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: it's 100% ready for clueful users
1193 2011-10-05 15:39:05 <luke-jr> clueless users can still shoot themselves in the foot
1194 2011-10-05 15:39:10 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r4ffbdcc / src/makefile.unix : Auto-build dependencies - http://git.io/5Rma0Q
1195 2011-10-05 15:39:35 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: BlueMatt: wanna give me a day to get some consensus on these obvious things gavinandresen wanted consensus for?
1196 2011-10-05 15:40:16 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: Ive gotta figure out qt xcompile first so I think you are safe
1197 2011-10-05 15:41:16 <gavinandresen> consensus won't be built in a day
1198 2011-10-05 15:41:37 <gavinandresen> ... and there will be other releases....
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1200 2011-10-05 15:43:07 <BlueMatt> qt and bitcoin-qt xcompile wont be built in a day at the rate Ive got time to fiddle with obscure gcc bugs...
1201 2011-10-05 15:44:00 <gavinandresen> I can fire up my EC2 Windows instance to do a non-cross-compiled windows build if necessary
1202 2011-10-05 15:44:24 <gavinandresen> ... or maybe we can recruit somebody trustworthy to build release candidates on windows
1203 2011-10-05 15:45:00 <BlueMatt> ie you
1204 2011-10-05 15:46:28 * imsaguy2 volunteers
1205 2011-10-05 15:47:00 dvide has joined
1206 2011-10-05 15:47:25 * BlueMatt is still of the opinion that the only person trusted enough to do non-gitian builds is gavinandresen (and maybe jgarzk if he were willing)
1207 2011-10-05 15:48:54 datagutt has joined
1208 2011-10-05 15:49:11 <sipa> gavinandresen: i'll try to make the changes i planned on doing soon
1209 2011-10-05 15:49:37 <BlueMatt> wait, sipa in #bitcoin-dev, its a miracle (now what was it that I needed to ask you...)
1210 2011-10-05 15:49:48 <BlueMatt> arg
1211 2011-10-05 15:50:03 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r3a6e468 / src/bitcoinrpc.cpp : Merge branch 'listsinceblock' of https://github.com/cdhowie/bitcoin - http://git.io/NmeStg
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1220 2011-10-05 16:04:09 <gavinandresen> tcatm : ping
1221 2011-10-05 16:04:17 <tcatm> gavinandresen: pong
1222 2011-10-05 16:04:33 <gavinandresen> tcatm: I'm getting a unit test error: test/miner_tests.cpp:32: error in "sha256transform_equality": check hash == hash_reference failed
1223 2011-10-05 16:05:01 <tcatm> gavinandresen: osx?
1224 2011-10-05 16:05:06 <gavinandresen> yes
1225 2011-10-05 16:06:23 <tcatm> can you run test_bitcoin with --log_level=message ? it should output the calculated hash
1226 2011-10-05 16:07:20 <gavinandresen> tcatm: ac4a3dbd5869797c29d66aec8c4348f77b5ae25a222d46b3842014b514025b75
1227 2011-10-05 16:09:27 <tcatm> endian mismatch :/
1228 2011-10-05 16:09:46 <tcatm> is it an x86 mac?
1229 2011-10-05 16:10:12 <gavinandresen> tcatm: yes
1230 2011-10-05 16:10:30 SomeoneWeird is now known as SomeoneWeirdzzzz
1231 2011-10-05 16:12:07 <tcatm> can you undo the merge for now? This could be tricky to sort out. I'll try to get access to a mac (and a windows computer) to figure out what's wrong.
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1234 2011-10-05 16:13:44 <gavinandresen> This is part of the remove-cryptopp-dependency merge?
1235 2011-10-05 16:14:03 <gavinandresen> ... and if I don't remove it... what, getwork is likely broken?
1236 2011-10-05 16:14:28 <tcatm> midstate will be broken but miners that do not use it should work fine
1237 2011-10-05 16:14:53 wasabi2 has joined
1238 2011-10-05 16:15:18 <tcatm> yes, it's the wrapper around openssl that makes it behave like cryptopp (i.e. gives access to midstate)
1239 2011-10-05 16:15:20 <gavinandresen> Could be the unit test is broken, I get the same error on my linux box
1240 2011-10-05 16:15:38 <luke-jr> :o
1241 2011-10-05 16:15:49 <luke-jr> can you run the unit test against 0.4.0?
1242 2011-10-05 16:15:58 <gavinandresen> tcatm: different hash with --log_level, though: fc58a395f876eeef05bbdae82e1884912f5988b8cb95ffbd95f7a7a9a826c0da
1243 2011-10-05 16:16:10 <luke-jr> x.x
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1248 2011-10-05 16:18:36 <gavinandresen> tcatm: undoing the remove-cryptopp-pull will be somewhat painful, because I just committed changes to a couple of the makefiles that depend on it (auto-build dependencies, instaed of *.cpp depending on *.h)
1249 2011-10-05 16:19:32 tower has joined
1250 2011-10-05 16:20:05 <luke-jr> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=46924.0
1251 2011-10-05 16:20:24 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: first see if the test works w/ 0.4.0 IMO
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1253 2011-10-05 16:22:35 <tcatm> gavinandresen: strange. the unittest from master also fails on my computer. my remove-cryptopp branch works fine
1254 2011-10-05 16:23:32 <gavinandresen> tcatm: did you make clean? dependencies for test_bitcoin were screwed up before...
1255 2011-10-05 16:25:51 <tcatm> yes
1256 2011-10-05 16:26:03 <tcatm> looks like it calculates a different hash every time
1257 2011-10-05 16:26:08 <BlueMatt> on another note, I fucked up jenkins (hence why it didnt catch this in a second)...
1258 2011-10-05 16:26:22 <BlueMatt> (fixed now)
1259 2011-10-05 16:26:36 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoind-Sanitytest build #46: ABORTED in 5 min 55 sec: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoind-Sanitytest/46/
1260 2011-10-05 16:26:44 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin-Test build #49: FAILURE in 7.5 sec: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin-Test/49/
1261 2011-10-05 16:26:53 <BlueMatt> there we go
1262 2011-10-05 16:29:32 <BlueMatt> ...or not...Ill fix it when I get back to the dorm
1263 2011-10-05 16:29:36 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1264 2011-10-05 16:31:08 BlueMatt-mobile has joined
1265 2011-10-05 16:31:56 <tcatm> gavinandresen: can you try the no-cryptopp branch?
1266 2011-10-05 16:32:28 <gavinandresen> tcatm : one sec
1267 2011-10-05 16:34:45 <gavinandresen> tcatm: that branch is just fine. Merge error maybe?
1268 2011-10-05 16:35:51 danbri has joined
1269 2011-10-05 16:36:11 ThomasV has joined
1270 2011-10-05 16:36:14 <tcatm> likely
1271 2011-10-05 16:36:29 <tcatm> let's try out git bisect :)
1272 2011-10-05 16:36:57 <luke-jr> ♥ git bisect
1273 2011-10-05 16:37:10 <gavinandresen> afk for a while, lunch
1274 2011-10-05 16:37:33 <luke-jr> especially love how you can write a script to test it and just let it run :D
1275 2011-10-05 16:37:53 <luke-jr> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=46927.0
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1287 2011-10-05 16:45:34 <hadi> hi
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1299 2011-10-05 17:06:23 <tcatm> gavinandresen: merging listsinceblock broke it
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1302 2011-10-05 17:07:23 <luke-jr> O.o wtf
1303 2011-10-05 17:07:24 superman2016 has joined
1304 2011-10-05 17:07:28 <gavinandresen> you sure? I just did a git checkout 3a6e468 .... (the listsinceblock merge) and unit tests were OK
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1306 2011-10-05 17:08:27 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1307 2011-10-05 17:08:31 <tcatm> at least that's what git bisect told me
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1309 2011-10-05 17:09:00 <luke-jr> tcatm: the slightest human error really affects bisect results fwiw
1310 2011-10-05 17:09:06 <tcatm> 3a6e468 is okay because it does not have the unittest for SHA256Transform
1311 2011-10-05 17:09:10 <luke-jr> be sure you flag "can't test" as "can't test"
1312 2011-10-05 17:09:16 <luke-jr> lol
1313 2011-10-05 17:10:32 <tcatm> wait, now I'm a little confused
1314 2011-10-05 17:10:33 <gavinandresen> ok, now I'm very confused....
1315 2011-10-05 17:10:56 <gavinandresen> checked out master branch and no complaints ???
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1319 2011-10-05 17:11:49 <tcatm> with make clean?
1320 2011-10-05 17:12:08 <tcatm> and maybe even git reset --hard before make clean?
1321 2011-10-05 17:12:10 <gavinandresen> I'm double-checking to make sure I'm starting clean right now
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1325 2011-10-05 17:17:00 BurtyBB is now known as BurtyB
1326 2011-10-05 17:17:58 <luke-jr> diablo-d3: reports of unknown-works from current DMwtf n00b voted no on https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=46927 ? -.-
1327 2011-10-05 17:18:04 <luke-jr> yay for combined messages x.x
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1329 2011-10-05 17:18:37 <gavinandresen> tcatm: Ok, I figure out the source of my confusion. Unit test on my mac works if I compile -g, does NOT if I compile -g -O3
1330 2011-10-05 17:18:41 Sedra has joined
1331 2011-10-05 17:18:52 <gavinandresen> (does not work on my linux box compiled -O3)
1332 2011-10-05 17:18:57 <gavinandresen> Uninitialized variable maybe?
1333 2011-10-05 17:19:00 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: -O3 is generally known to break things…
1334 2011-10-05 17:19:11 <luke-jr> -O2 is the highest safe optimization for x86
1335 2011-10-05 17:19:34 <gmaxwell> Don't FUD.
1336 2011-10-05 17:19:55 <gmaxwell> If you have bugs please report them, the gcc developers are very responsive. If you need help filing them I'll help you out.
1337 2011-10-05 17:20:17 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: what FUD?
1338 2011-10-05 17:20:30 <lfm> luke-jr blaming bugs on gcc
1339 2011-10-05 17:20:44 <BlueMatt-mobile> Luke-jr did you just start a poo
1340 2011-10-05 17:20:44 <luke-jr> lfm: it's not exactly news
1341 2011-10-05 17:20:46 <asherkin> everyone knows -O3 breaks things
1342 2011-10-05 17:20:54 <gmaxwell> In current GCC O3 is reliable— now, it will tend to expose bugs in your own code more often.
1343 2011-10-05 17:20:58 <lfm> luke-jr ya its a common fud
1344 2011-10-05 17:21:05 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: what "current" GCC?
1345 2011-10-05 17:21:11 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: most people don't use bleeding edge
1346 2011-10-05 17:21:14 <lfm> 4+
1347 2011-10-05 17:21:40 <BlueMatt-mobile> Luke-jr did you just start a poll on the forum for something dev related???
1348 2011-10-05 17:21:42 <gmaxwell> 4.5.1 for example.
1349 2011-10-05 17:21:48 <luke-jr> BlueMatt-mobile: lots of them, why?
1350 2011-10-05 17:22:07 <luke-jr> BlueMatt-mobile: gavin says consensus needed to add backward-compatible JSON-RPC methods, so…
1351 2011-10-05 17:22:09 <da2ce7> lol
1352 2011-10-05 17:22:14 <BlueMatt-mobile> Number of developer reading forum : 1
1353 2011-10-05 17:22:21 <gmaxwell> The testing that goes into modern gcc is pretty impressive.
1354 2011-10-05 17:22:27 mosimo has joined
1355 2011-10-05 17:22:53 <luke-jr> BlueMatt-mobile: that's why i posted the links here
1356 2011-10-05 17:22:59 <gmaxwell> (Not that there aren't bugs— I mean, I make a point of testing on bleeding edge so I can report bugs in GCC, but the released stuff is pretty good)
1357 2011-10-05 17:23:07 <tcatm> gavinandresen: also happens with -O2 here
1358 2011-10-05 17:23:10 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: so you're saying I can build 100% of my system with -O3 and it will work?
1359 2011-10-05 17:23:20 * luke-jr notes 4.5 *just* got promoted to stable
1360 2011-10-05 17:23:27 <BlueMatt-mobile> Luke-jr we do have a mailing list...
1361 2011-10-05 17:23:29 <lfm> luke-jr if your code is bug free ya, id say so
1362 2011-10-05 17:23:33 <gmaxwell> No because your system is full of broken software, but thats not GCC's fault.
1363 2011-10-05 17:23:41 <luke-jr> BlueMatt-mobile: I sent them there first. nobody replied.
1364 2011-10-05 17:23:42 <lfm> thats what I said
1365 2011-10-05 17:24:12 <BlueMatt-mobile> Luke-jr then why do you expect a reply on the forums?
1366 2011-10-05 17:24:18 <gmaxwell> For example a ton of open source software violates the C pointer aliasing rules and this code will be compiled in surprising ways (at O2 too, but O3 is somewhat worse)
1367 2011-10-05 17:24:29 <luke-jr> BlueMatt-mobile: more developers there
1368 2011-10-05 17:24:40 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: specifically how?
1369 2011-10-05 17:24:41 <BlueMatt-mobile> Luke-jr more?
1370 2011-10-05 17:24:42 cacheson1 is now known as cacheson
1371 2011-10-05 17:24:58 <luke-jr> BlueMatt-mobile: yes, including people working on webapps and such who are the actual users of JSON-RPC
1372 2011-10-05 17:25:13 <luke-jr> BlueMatt-mobile: the question isn't about the implementation, it's about adding an API
1373 2011-10-05 17:25:29 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: What aliasing? Thou shall not have pointers with different types point to the same memory.
1374 2011-10-05 17:25:33 <tcatm> gavinandresen: main.cpp compiled with -O2/3 is fine. test_bitcoin.cpp compiled with -O2/3 causes the unit test to fail
1375 2011-10-05 17:25:50 <gmaxwell> (excepting char* and unions)
1376 2011-10-05 17:26:07 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: um, how is that not standard C?
1377 2011-10-05 17:26:15 <luke-jr> especially considering void*
1378 2011-10-05 17:26:35 <gmaxwell> You're allowed to do is so long as you don't dereference them. :)
1379 2011-10-05 17:26:39 <BlueMatt-mobile> Luke-jr heh well ok, but I would really be careful calling most of the people on the forum "developers"
1380 2011-10-05 17:26:39 <luke-jr> it's also used in POSIX for networking
1381 2011-10-05 17:26:40 <tcatm> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/test/miner_tests.cpp so this code breaks with -O2
1382 2011-10-05 17:27:04 <lfm> POSIX doesnt have code, its only a standard.
1383 2011-10-05 17:27:10 BlueMatt has joined
1384 2011-10-05 17:27:15 <luke-jr> lfm: the standard says to mix pointer types
1385 2011-10-05 17:27:23 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/98650/what-is-the-strict-aliasing-rule < an example discussion.
1386 2011-10-05 17:27:28 <luke-jr> sockaddr, specifically
1387 2011-10-05 17:27:54 <lfm> using unions? thats allowed
1388 2011-10-05 17:28:28 BlueMatt-mobile has quit (Quit: BlueMatt)
1389 2011-10-05 17:29:08 <luke-jr> you allocate a sockaddr_in, and pass it as a sockaddr*
1390 2011-10-05 17:29:42 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: you create an address union.
1391 2011-10-05 17:29:53 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I'd say there's more JSON-RPC-using developers on the forums than the ML
1392 2011-10-05 17:30:04 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: that's not what the POSIX spec is
1393 2011-10-05 17:30:17 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I would disagree but it really doesnt matter...
1394 2011-10-05 17:30:44 <gmaxwell> The posix spec doesn't say anything about what you do with your code, it only gives you the function interfaces.
1395 2011-10-05 17:30:48 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1429645/how-to-cast-sockaddr-storage-and-avoid-breaking-strict-aliasing-rules
1396 2011-10-05 17:31:47 <gmaxwell> Regardless, the C spec has said this since time immortal (or 1990 at least). And it's an important feature that makes it possible for the compiler to optimize loops without constantly checking that the data in registers weren't changed out from under them.
1397 2011-10-05 17:32:53 <gmaxwell> And code that violates the rull will break at _-O2_ though more frequently at O3 (owing to vectorization and stronger loop optimizations), but its the code thats broken not the compiler.
1398 2011-10-05 17:33:31 whiteman has joined
1399 2011-10-05 17:33:46 <da2ce7> gmaxwell, shouldn't the compiler catch the strict alising violations at complile time then?
1400 2011-10-05 17:34:14 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: it can sometimes. But it can't always tell, because the aliasing is often not obvious from within the context of a compilation unit.
1401 2011-10-05 17:35:04 <da2ce7> hmmm, maybe we should be putting bitcoin throogh some tighter static analyisis tools then.
1402 2011-10-05 17:35:11 <gmaxwell> With -Wall and -O2 you get -Wstrict-aliasing=3 which will warn prett much only in cases where the compiler is _sure_ something bad will happen... but thats only when all the activity is within a single function.
1403 2011-10-05 17:36:38 <lfm> and there are no tools which would catch all cases
1404 2011-10-05 17:37:04 <gmaxwell> Well, you can reduce it to the halting problem.
1405 2011-10-05 17:37:40 <gmaxwell> and you can write code that looks like if(solve NP complete problem){commit violation}. :)
1406 2011-10-05 17:38:04 <whiteman> How do I unencrypt the wallet for a send via RPC?
1407 2011-10-05 17:38:06 <gmaxwell> -Wstrict-aliasing=1 is pretty good but it also warns on a lot of stuff thats okay.
1408 2011-10-05 17:38:18 <gmaxwell> whiteman: unlock
1409 2011-10-05 17:38:25 <whiteman> kthx
1410 2011-10-05 17:38:40 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin-Test build #50: STILL FAILING in 9 min 43 sec: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin-Test/50/
1411 2011-10-05 17:39:01 <cuqa> i have heard that you can send bitcoins without an added fee by waiting a specific amount of confirmations prior to sending
1412 2011-10-05 17:39:13 <gmaxwell> Someone should ask bitcoin to be added to the coverity open source scans.
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1414 2011-10-05 17:39:32 <gmaxwell> cuqa: sure, almost all transactions are like that.
1415 2011-10-05 17:39:35 <cuqa> is this true, and if yes are you able to tell bitcoin that it should only feeless bitcoins?
1416 2011-10-05 17:39:43 <BlueMatt> there we go, now its actually failing...:)
1417 2011-10-05 17:39:46 <cuqa> only use
1418 2011-10-05 17:40:09 <gmaxwell> cuqa: It will avoid paying a fee if it can. In the GUI client if it must it will ask for your approval.
1419 2011-10-05 17:40:14 <gmaxwell> cuqa: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees
1420 2011-10-05 17:40:20 <luke-jr> cuqa: wxBitcoin and Bitcoin-Qt prompt you before sending with a fee
1421 2011-10-05 17:40:39 <gmaxwell> Well, technically the coin selection algorithim isn't sufficient to avoid fees in all cases when it's possible
1422 2011-10-05 17:40:39 <luke-jr> cuqa: Monday, I submitted a pull request to make JSON-RPC abort if there's a forced fee
1423 2011-10-05 17:40:39 <cuqa> but not in the linux client
1424 2011-10-05 17:40:42 <gmaxwell> Someone should fix that.
1425 2011-10-05 17:40:44 <luke-jr> cuqa: yes, even on LInux
1426 2011-10-05 17:40:52 <gmaxwell> cuqa: you mean the cli/daemon?
1427 2011-10-05 17:40:59 <cuqa> headless, yes
1428 2011-10-05 17:41:03 <cuqa> bitcoind
1429 2011-10-05 17:41:06 <luke-jr> cuqa: bitcoind is not an end-user client, it's for webapps
1430 2011-10-05 17:41:16 <luke-jr> cuqa: anyhow, you can merge my branch to get an error instead
1431 2011-10-05 17:41:24 <lfm> cuqa but you're right it will add fees at rather unexpected times and there isnt any way to really stop it.
1432 2011-10-05 17:41:30 <luke-jr> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/557
1433 2011-10-05 17:41:30 <gmaxwell> Yea, the RPC doesn't ask you... sounds like a good feature request...
1434 2011-10-05 17:41:34 <cuqa> so far I deduct the fee from the withdrawal
1435 2011-10-05 17:41:38 <cuqa> but some ppl cry about that :p
1436 2011-10-05 17:41:45 <luke-jr> cuqa: that's broken by design, fwiw
1437 2011-10-05 17:41:56 <luke-jr> cuqa: since the person withdrawing is not necessarily responsible for the fees
1438 2011-10-05 17:42:03 superman2016 has joined
1439 2011-10-05 17:42:04 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: what about making your patch check to see if the pay-fee is negative?
1440 2011-10-05 17:42:16 <cuqa> when they want their money, they gotta pay the fee
1441 2011-10-05 17:42:21 <cuqa> thats my principle ;)
1442 2011-10-05 17:42:23 <luke-jr> cuqa: the standard practice seems to be charging a flat fee and splitting the "profits" among users
1443 2011-10-05 17:42:26 <gmaxwell> cuqa: if you don't run an input starved wallet you should be able to avoid fees always.
1444 2011-10-05 17:42:40 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: negative zero?
1445 2011-10-05 17:42:48 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: well, not always
1446 2011-10-05 17:43:06 <whiteman> I cant get the RPC "unlock" to work. I'm getting a 404 on that.
1447 2011-10-05 17:43:20 <luke-jr> whiteman: you mean for encryption? that's new in 0.4.0
1448 2011-10-05 17:43:22 <whiteman> I found something that says it's called "walletpassphrase". I get a 500 on that.
1449 2011-10-05 17:43:28 <lfm> wth is "input starved" anyway?
1450 2011-10-05 17:43:42 <BlueMatt> <gmaxwell> Someone should ask bitcoin to be added to the coverity open source scans. <-- not a bad idea, does gavinandresen want to do that?
1451 2011-10-05 17:43:44 <whiteman> luke-jr: Yes, for 0.4.0. I need to unlock the wallet so I can do a send.
1452 2011-10-05 17:43:47 ThomasV has joined
1453 2011-10-05 17:43:58 <whiteman> via RPC
1454 2011-10-05 17:44:03 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1455 2011-10-05 17:44:08 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: perhaps -1 means pay up to 1 BTC in silent rpc fees. So if you want zero you set it to -1e-8 ? meh. I guess thats kinda ugly.
1456 2011-10-05 17:44:44 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: BlueMatt: be forewarned the coverity open source people are pretty unresponsive.. it might take a long time to get added.
1457 2011-10-05 17:44:45 BlueMatt has joined
1458 2011-10-05 17:44:53 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: BlueMatt: be forewarned the coverity open source people are pretty unresponsive.. it might take a long time to get added.
1459 2011-10-05 17:45:21 <gavinandresen> why me? I don't know nuthin about coverity
1460 2011-10-05 17:45:23 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: well, 0 is 0 in that case
1461 2011-10-05 17:45:28 superman2016 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1462 2011-10-05 17:45:31 <gmaxwell> But the coverity reports are generally pretty excellent. Clang is kinda close, but has more false positives and doesn't have the good tracking interface.
1463 2011-10-05 17:45:32 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: because you are development-lead
1464 2011-10-05 17:45:32 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: not a bad idea
1465 2011-10-05 17:45:41 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: comment on the pull req, so I remember? :D
1466 2011-10-05 17:46:05 <gavinandresen> sounds more like a testing thing to me... maybe Alex could recruit somebody to do it
1467 2011-10-05 17:46:19 <BlueMatt> ...or AlexWaters1 could do it
1468 2011-10-05 17:46:20 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: how much of a consensus do these backward-compatible JSON-RPC changes need? coinbaser's got 5 for vs 1 against right now
1469 2011-10-05 17:48:02 * luke-jr observes a total of 3 people supporting getmemorypool
1470 2011-10-05 17:48:03 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: polls with votes that might be nothing but sock puppets count for very little... comments like "I've' been running this on InstaWallet with no problems for the last three weeks" do
1471 2011-10-05 17:48:09 superman2016 has joined
1472 2011-10-05 17:48:21 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: I already said Eligius has been using it for about 6 months
1473 2011-10-05 17:48:35 <whiteman> Can someone check this real quick and tell me if this is a valid example of how to unlock an encrypted wallet for an RPC send? https://gist.github.com/1260606
1474 2011-10-05 17:48:41 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: under heavy load, even
1475 2011-10-05 17:48:52 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: okey doke.
1476 2011-10-05 17:49:16 <luke-jr> (I very much agree about comments being useful, though-- would LOVE to hear why someone voted against it)
1477 2011-10-05 17:49:19 ska_ has joined
1478 2011-10-05 17:49:20 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: ... in other words, 'it works for me!'
1479 2011-10-05 17:49:29 <ska_> hi
1480 2011-10-05 17:49:45 ska_ has quit (Client Quit)
1481 2011-10-05 17:49:54 <da2ce7> lol
1482 2011-10-05 17:49:59 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: at the very least, it needs rebasing before being pulled
1483 2011-10-05 17:50:04 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: again? O.o
1484 2011-10-05 17:50:08 <luke-jr> I *just* rebased it Monday
1485 2011-10-05 17:50:59 <luke-jr> argh
1486 2011-10-05 17:51:04 <gavinandresen> tcatm: I'm stumped on why miner tests are failing -O2 -O3 .....
1487 2011-10-05 17:52:28 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: try a compile with -O2 -fno-strict-aliasing
1488 2011-10-05 17:53:34 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: fails
1489 2011-10-05 17:54:04 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: rebased. how do I update the pullreq?
1490 2011-10-05 17:54:05 <gmaxwell> Cool, one issue down. Run your test in valgrind.
1491 2011-10-05 17:54:23 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: .... yeah, doing that, have to recompile openssl with -DPURIFY....
1492 2011-10-05 17:54:35 <gavinandresen> (grrrr)
1493 2011-10-05 17:54:42 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: I just recommend keeping openssl like that all the time.
1494 2011-10-05 17:55:41 <luke-jr> do I just submit a NEW pullreq?
1495 2011-10-05 17:55:41 <gmaxwell> The use of uninit memory for randomness is a stupid paranoid security feature which almost never does any good and can't hope to offset the loss of valgrind as a debugging tool.
1496 2011-10-05 17:56:21 <gmaxwell> wow, bitcoin passes clang's static analysis with no reports.
1497 2011-10-05 17:56:56 <luke-jr> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/569
1498 2011-10-05 17:58:44 shLONG has joined
1499 2011-10-05 18:00:44 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: you could possibly add a #ifdef valgrind to bitcoin that adds a VALGRIND_MAKE_MEM_DEFINED() (see memcheck.h) to all buffers returned by the openssl RNG. I haven't checked to see if this is sufficent for openssl... it's probably not but that plus some normal valgrind suppression rules should be enough.
1500 2011-10-05 18:01:03 yeah has joined
1501 2011-10-05 18:01:30 <CIA-101> bitcoin: various coinbaser * r25e023..5b2f35 bitcoind-personal/ (41 files in 8 dirs): (24 commits)
1502 2011-10-05 18:01:31 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: it's not THAT hard to recompile, just one of those annoyances that make me grump....
1503 2011-10-05 18:02:00 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: right, but it's a bigger issue e.g. if a user has an issue that you can't reproduce and you'd like them to run valgrind on their own setup.
1504 2011-10-05 18:02:11 <gmaxwell> asking them to recompile their openssl is a bit burdensome.
1505 2011-10-05 18:02:43 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: true...
1506 2011-10-05 18:03:49 <whiteman> Once the wallet passphrase expires, why doesn't the wallet relock itself?
1507 2011-10-05 18:03:59 <gmaxwell> whiteman: it does.
1508 2011-10-05 18:04:19 <whiteman> But subsequent calls to walletpassphrase say it is still unlocked
1509 2011-10-05 18:04:20 <gmaxwell> There is a timer that will tell you when it will lock in getinfo.
1510 2011-10-05 18:04:34 <whiteman> Is there a minimum hardcoded timeout?
1511 2011-10-05 18:04:46 <whiteman> I did a timeout of 1 and it didn't seem like it was relocking.
1512 2011-10-05 18:04:50 <gmaxwell> There wasn't when I tested it, dunno about now.
1513 2011-10-05 18:04:59 <gmaxwell> whiteman: was it already unlocked?
1514 2011-10-05 18:05:01 <whiteman> Hold on, let me test this again.
1515 2011-10-05 18:05:32 <gmaxwell> You can't decrease the lock time for a subtle but good reason.
1516 2011-10-05 18:05:54 <gmaxwell> E.g. you have two processes calling it ... one _needs_ 60 second windows. The other needs 2 second windows. You don't want the second to step on the first.
1517 2011-10-05 18:06:18 <gmaxwell> So if it's already open until time X then you can't make it lock at <X with a second unlock call.
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1520 2011-10-05 18:08:57 <whiteman> Ok, here is what I'm getting. I first walletlock just to be sure, then I walletpassphrase mypass 1, which should be 1 second, then I wait 10 seconds and i send walletpassphrase again. It gives me an error that it is still unlocked.
1521 2011-10-05 18:09:54 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: iirc that behavior was changed due to some argument I dont remember
1522 2011-10-05 18:10:10 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: now the second call to walletpassphrase just refuses to do anything and gives an error
1523 2011-10-05 18:10:33 <BlueMatt> whiteman: are you using bitcoind or bitcoin-gui and if gui are you doing anything in the gui at the same time?
1524 2011-10-05 18:11:16 <whiteman> bitcoind on windows from a cmd shell. bitcoin-gui is just chillin.
1525 2011-10-05 18:11:38 <gavinandresen> tcatm gmaxwell : valgrind on the failing unit test has 0 errors... curiouser and curiouser
1526 2011-10-05 18:11:44 <BlueMatt> so you are using bitcoin-gui but not accessing gui and then bitcoind to interface with it?
1527 2011-10-05 18:11:52 denisx has joined
1528 2011-10-05 18:14:19 <whiteman> BlueMatt: Yes. I restarted the gui to check again, but I'm getting the same result.
1529 2011-10-05 18:14:24 <whiteman> The wallet is not relocking
1530 2011-10-05 18:14:45 <whiteman> The unlocked_until time has passed
1531 2011-10-05 18:14:54 random_cat has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1532 2011-10-05 18:15:28 <gmaxwell> whiteman: how are you telling that it's not relocking?
1533 2011-10-05 18:15:53 <whiteman> I send another walletpassphrase and it tells me that it's still unlocked.
1534 2011-10-05 18:16:38 <gmaxwell> Well, I make no promises about code that was changed since I tested it! ;)
1535 2011-10-05 18:17:03 <whiteman> I'll write up some basic steps to reproduce.
1536 2011-10-05 18:17:19 <BlueMatt> is this 0.4?
1537 2011-10-05 18:17:34 <whiteman> Yes, 0.4.0
1538 2011-10-05 18:18:45 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: is e9e7bb968b31cd49d1fdcb46cb1fdb6489280fe8 a bugfix?
1539 2011-10-05 18:19:30 Moonies has quit (Quit: quack)
1540 2011-10-05 18:19:37 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: basically. The mac build instructions were outdated
1541 2011-10-05 18:20:03 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: why?
1542 2011-10-05 18:20:22 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: for stable
1543 2011-10-05 18:21:07 <luke-jr> seems to include non-fix changes to the makefile :|
1544 2011-10-05 18:21:29 <luke-jr> guess I'll have to queue it for a Mac stable dev
1545 2011-10-05 18:22:16 <BlueMatt> whiteman: hmmm...working for me
1546 2011-10-05 18:23:40 <whiteman> BlueMatt: Are you on Windows?
1547 2011-10-05 18:23:45 <BlueMatt> no
1548 2011-10-05 18:23:50 <BlueMatt> same codebase though...
1549 2011-10-05 18:23:57 <whiteman> Well, maybe it's a Windows thing. I don't know.
1550 2011-10-05 18:24:04 <whiteman> Here are my results: http://pastebin.com/kg0eLVh1
1551 2011-10-05 18:25:59 <whiteman> It consistently does not relock for me.
1552 2011-10-05 18:26:27 Burgundy has joined
1553 2011-10-05 18:27:10 <whiteman> It is still definitely unlocked. I can sendtoaddress.
1554 2011-10-05 18:28:41 lyspooner has joined
1555 2011-10-05 18:29:01 <tcatm> gavinandresen: I think I got a fix... :)
1556 2011-10-05 18:29:20 <gavinandresen> tcatm: great! Figure out what the problem was, or just figure out a workaround?
1557 2011-10-05 18:30:46 <tcatm> basically I'm initializing pinput as a uint256 now instead of char pinput[32]
1558 2011-10-05 18:31:03 <BlueMatt> whiteman: hmmm...still not doing it for me on linux gui
1559 2011-10-05 18:31:39 <whiteman> Well, boot into Windows then.
1560 2011-10-05 18:31:50 <BlueMatt> now thats a pita...
1561 2011-10-05 18:32:16 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: nothing Eligius-specific about coinbaser fyi
1562 2011-10-05 18:32:17 SuprTiggr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1563 2011-10-05 18:32:30 <whiteman> And wtf is wrong with the buttons in Windows? http://i.imgur.com/UKLms.png
1564 2011-10-05 18:32:46 <BlueMatt> ...wx
1565 2011-10-05 18:33:06 SuprTiggr has joined
1566 2011-10-05 18:34:20 <whiteman> Yeah, but the last version wasn't like this.
1567 2011-10-05 18:34:32 random_cat has joined
1568 2011-10-05 18:34:33 <gavinandresen> whiteman: ... and the next version won't be, either
1569 2011-10-05 18:34:44 <BlueMatt> whiteman: it wasnt?
1570 2011-10-05 18:35:01 <luke-jr> lol
1571 2011-10-05 18:35:01 <whiteman> No, it wasn't.
1572 2011-10-05 18:35:22 <BlueMatt> odd, dont think that code was touched...
1573 2011-10-05 18:35:26 <luke-jr> I love how Bitcoin-Qt replaces it with a sendmany-capable screen
1574 2011-10-05 18:35:27 <BlueMatt> or it shouldnt have ben
1575 2011-10-05 18:36:15 <whiteman> This should not be released publicly, even as beta, without a "stable" option.
1576 2011-10-05 18:37:03 <luke-jr> whiteman: wtf? because your buttons are squished?
1577 2011-10-05 18:37:10 <luke-jr> whiteman: on an OS nobody serious uses?
1578 2011-10-05 18:37:24 <whiteman> luke-jr: No one uses windows? Are you kidding?
1579 2011-10-05 18:37:33 <whiteman> You're starting to sound like RealSolid.
1580 2011-10-05 18:37:38 <BlueMatt> whiteman: ignore luke
1581 2011-10-05 18:38:14 <BlueMatt> whiteman: also, Im sorry you found a bug...but insulting people making the software doesnt help anything get done
1582 2011-10-05 18:38:29 <BlueMatt> also, Ive got other shit to do, go fix it yourself whiteman
1583 2011-10-05 18:38:56 <gavinandresen> ... especially when we've already fixed the bug, and there really aren't enough of us to backport fixes to 'stable'
1584 2011-10-05 18:39:04 <luke-jr> whiteman: nobody with a clue seems to
1585 2011-10-05 18:39:51 <luke-jr> it seems every program with a Windows port has moved to MingW cross-compile only
1586 2011-10-05 18:40:01 <luke-jr> because none of the developers use it
1587 2011-10-05 18:40:17 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: Ive only heard of bitcoin...
1588 2011-10-05 18:40:22 <tcatm> gavinandresen: It was a stupid mistake by me. pinput should be 64 byte, not 32 and thus -O2 likely assumed the missing 32 bytes where random
1589 2011-10-05 18:40:39 <whiteman> gavinandresen: I have thoundsands of dollars invested in Bitcoin. I want this to be successful. I think you have to agree though, you can't be rushing things to release without serious testing. Bugs, even if purely cosmetic, will hurt the reputation of Bitcoin. The community needs widespread adoption from everyone, not just developers.
1590 2011-10-05 18:40:48 <gavinandresen> tcatm: phew-- good. Wonder why valgrind didn't get upset....
1591 2011-10-05 18:41:02 <jrmithdobbs> anyone noticed anything nasty going on on the p2p network?
1592 2011-10-05 18:41:15 <luke-jr> whiteman: do you want to maintain wxBitcoin 0.4.x? :p
1593 2011-10-05 18:41:15 <tcatm> gavinandresen: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=gAC7E25v can you verify this fixes it?
1594 2011-10-05 18:41:26 <BlueMatt> whiteman: buttons squished doesnt mean no one tested it - it means no one bothered to fix it and most likely no one here uses windows
1595 2011-10-05 18:41:36 <gavinandresen> whiteman: squished buttons is not a show-stopper bug. ANd you shouldn't invest money that you can't afford to lose in an experiment
1596 2011-10-05 18:41:47 <jrmithdobbs> I'm getting a whole lot of "TCP: Peer <ip>:<remoteport>/8333 unexpectedly shrunk window <right size>:<wrong size>" in my kmesg on my public node
1597 2011-10-05 18:41:50 <jrmithdobbs> the last few days
1598 2011-10-05 18:41:53 <jrmithdobbs> a *whole* lot
1599 2011-10-05 18:42:52 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1600 2011-10-05 18:43:22 shLONG has quit ()
1601 2011-10-05 18:44:38 <jrmithdobbs> actually it was about a week ago, stupid kernel timestamps
1602 2011-10-05 18:44:51 <jrmithdobbs> but it was quite repetitive from a small group of peers
1603 2011-10-05 18:44:53 <gavinandresen> tcatm: fixed it
1604 2011-10-05 18:44:53 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r9e5322d / src/test/miner_tests.cpp : Fix miner_test unit test bug - http://git.io/1vvPEQ
1605 2011-10-05 18:45:30 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
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1607 2011-10-05 18:47:43 zhoutong has joined
1608 2011-10-05 18:53:56 <whiteman> gavinandresen: Regarding a "stable" release: I was not suggesting that you backport fixes. I am suggesting that v0.3.24 be kept as the primary download until v0.4.0 was out of beta.
1609 2011-10-05 18:54:20 <BlueMatt> 0.3.24 is also beta
1610 2011-10-05 18:54:32 <whiteman> Yeah I guess they are all beta.
1611 2011-10-05 18:54:33 <gavinandresen> there has not been a non-beta bitcoin release
1612 2011-10-05 18:55:12 <gavinandresen> I'd be curious to know what you think bitcoin needs before we call it "1.0" not beta ....
1613 2011-10-05 18:55:20 <gavinandresen> (I've got my own list)
1614 2011-10-05 18:57:02 Backburn has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1615 2011-10-05 18:57:02 <whiteman> I'm sure your list is much better than anything I can give you off the top of my head. But one thing that may not be on your list is the cosmetic issues. It might seem silly, but the perseption of the client by everyday people matters.
1616 2011-10-05 18:57:41 ByteCoin has joined
1617 2011-10-05 18:58:22 <BlueMatt> thats why we moved to qt
1618 2011-10-05 18:58:28 <BlueMatt> and had the whole ui redesigned...
1619 2011-10-05 18:58:53 <whiteman> Great, then that hasn't been overlooked.
1620 2011-10-05 18:58:57 <ByteCoin> gavinandresen: ping?
1621 2011-10-05 18:59:02 <gavinandresen> pong
1622 2011-10-05 18:59:38 <ByteCoin> gavinandresen: Just read your reply with regard to signatures not being part of the hash for the transaction
1623 2011-10-05 19:00:00 <gavinandresen> ByteCoin: yes, maybe I misunderstood....
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1625 2011-10-05 19:00:08 <ByteCoin> Different transactions will have different inputs and scriptpubkeys
1626 2011-10-05 19:00:26 <gavinandresen> but the inputs are identified by transaction hash
1627 2011-10-05 19:00:32 <ByteCoin> yup
1628 2011-10-05 19:00:44 <ByteCoin> so....
1629 2011-10-05 19:01:03 <gavinandresen> ... and the scriptpubkeys are not unique
1630 2011-10-05 19:01:12 <gavinandresen> (if you re-use your addresses)
1631 2011-10-05 19:01:34 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen optimize_http_status * r9e5322d23aec bitcoind-personal/src/test/miner_tests.cpp: Fix miner_test unit test bug
1632 2011-10-05 19:01:37 <CIA-101> bitcoin: David Joel Schwartz optimize_http_status * rae81b82fb826 bitcoind-personal/src/bitcoinrpc.cpp: Use C's const char* for status strings rather than C++'s std::string, which is slower
1633 2011-10-05 19:01:45 <gavinandresen> ... so I think you could end up with a transaction that has the same hash as a transaction that was already signed, and you could steal that other transaction's signature
1634 2011-10-05 19:01:56 <ByteCoin> So inputs are identified by the transaction hash. So that makes them unique
1635 2011-10-05 19:02:19 <ByteCoin> If the coinbases are unique then transactions spending them are unique
1636 2011-10-05 19:02:32 <gavinandresen> ... but coinbases aren't necessarily unique
1637 2011-10-05 19:02:37 Sedra- has joined
1638 2011-10-05 19:02:42 <gavinandresen> (probably a bug, but one we have to live with now)
1639 2011-10-05 19:02:56 <ByteCoin> Yeah but we pretend they are and the non unique ones are unspendable
1640 2011-10-05 19:03:00 <gavinandresen> (since there are two in the block chain)
1641 2011-10-05 19:03:30 <ByteCoin> Ok so given presumed unique coinbases with different hashes how do you get two different transactions with the same hash?
1642 2011-10-05 19:03:48 <gavinandresen> given unique coinbases, I think you're correct
1643 2011-10-05 19:04:10 <ByteCoin> Well that's effectively the situation we have then...
1644 2011-10-05 19:04:14 <ByteCoin> I'm confused.
1645 2011-10-05 19:04:30 Sedra has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1646 2011-10-05 19:04:48 <ByteCoin> Have you changed your mind then or am I missing something?
1647 2011-10-05 19:05:07 <phantomcircuit> ByteCoin, you dont necessarily have a unique transaction
1648 2011-10-05 19:05:30 <ByteCoin> Ok perhaps I'm being dim but you're going to have to explain that one to me
1649 2011-10-05 19:06:53 <phantomcircuit> you *should* have unique coinbase transactions
1650 2011-10-05 19:06:56 <ByteCoin> Just to clarify my position. I'm saying that the ECDSA signature(s) in the scriptSig should not be part of the transaction hash
1651 2011-10-05 19:07:30 <ByteCoin> phantomcircuit: I remember arguing that point with theymos. I took your side. Theymos didn't agree
1652 2011-10-05 19:08:00 <phantomcircuit> basically every other form of transaction is guaranteed to have a unique hash (within the constraints of sha256)
1653 2011-10-05 19:08:14 <phantomcircuit> the problem with coinbase transactions is that they dont have transaction inputs
1654 2011-10-05 19:08:22 <phantomcircuit> so they can technically not be unique
1655 2011-10-05 19:08:23 <ByteCoin> In fact I might go further and say that nothing in the scriptSig should contribute to the transaction hash
1656 2011-10-05 19:08:28 zomtec has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1657 2011-10-05 19:09:12 zomtec has joined
1658 2011-10-05 19:09:12 <ByteCoin> phantomcircuit: As I explained and as Gavin is well aware. Coinbases with duplicate hashes are unspendable
1659 2011-10-05 19:09:22 Etlase2 has joined
1660 2011-10-05 19:09:47 <gavinandresen> ByteCoin: theoretically, I think I agree with you. Practically.... I worry. I worry that the existing non-unique transactions in the chain could be enough to mount an attack of some sort
1661 2011-10-05 19:10:15 <gavinandresen> and I worry about how to transition from the transaction hashes we have now to some new definition of tx hashes
1662 2011-10-05 19:10:53 Etlase has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1663 2011-10-05 19:10:58 <ByteCoin> gavin: I presume the only existing non-unique ones are the 2 coinbases. I agree that the details would have to be looked at carefully.
1664 2011-10-05 19:11:42 <ByteCoin> If there were other non-unique transactions or would be if my scheme were adopted then that would be interesting
1665 2011-10-05 19:11:49 <lfm> There are two pairs of non-unique coinbases actually.
1666 2011-10-05 19:11:51 <gavinandresen> Then again, the only really worrisome thing uncovered by Dan Kaminsky's review of bitcoin was the fact that miners could decide to change transaction hashes as they put transactions in blocks
1667 2011-10-05 19:12:16 <gavinandresen> ... which might be even more susceptible to subtle attacks
1668 2011-10-05 19:12:20 BTCTrader has joined
1669 2011-10-05 19:12:33 BTCTrader has quit (Client Quit)
1670 2011-10-05 19:12:41 <ByteCoin> Uh, Is that info public? I haven't seen it.
1671 2011-10-05 19:12:55 BTCTrader has joined
1672 2011-10-05 19:13:01 <ByteCoin> If it's public, give me a reference or outlien
1673 2011-10-05 19:13:10 BTCTrader has quit (Changing host)
1674 2011-10-05 19:13:10 BTCTrader has joined
1675 2011-10-05 19:13:18 <gavinandresen> I'll pm you details...
1676 2011-10-05 19:13:55 c00w has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1677 2011-10-05 19:15:02 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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1680 2011-10-05 19:18:07 <ByteCoin> gavin: I agree about the worries of transitioning in general. We need to be careful with anything which breaks old clients.
1681 2011-10-05 19:18:12 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, i had forgotten about that entirely
1682 2011-10-05 19:18:47 <diki> when bitcoin receives a getwork request
1683 2011-10-05 19:18:49 <diki> how does it respond?
1684 2011-10-05 19:18:50 OneMINER has left ()
1685 2011-10-05 19:18:56 <diki> does it send the getwork via a header response?
1686 2011-10-05 19:19:38 <ByteCoin> phantomcircuit: Do you remember anything about it?
1687 2011-10-05 19:20:05 <lfm> diki you can see what it does by just doing "bitcoind getwork"
1688 2011-10-05 19:20:31 <diki> that just returns a json encoded getwork
1689 2011-10-05 19:20:41 <diki> i wrote a php server socket which listens on a port
1690 2011-10-05 19:20:46 <lfm> diki, ya, thats what it does.
1691 2011-10-05 19:20:56 <diki> however how does it send that to a miner
1692 2011-10-05 19:21:08 <diki> all the miners seem to read the header responses
1693 2011-10-05 19:21:22 <diki> i send with the header as well
1694 2011-10-05 19:21:25 <diki> but nothing happens
1695 2011-10-05 19:22:27 <lfm> you mean like when you find a block and send the response?
1696 2011-10-05 19:23:02 <diki> uh no
1697 2011-10-05 19:23:25 <ByteCoin> gavin: I've just read Dan Kaminsky's slides.. so I know what you're talking about
1698 2011-10-05 19:23:28 <diki> i wish to write a small php script which gets work from bitcoin or elsewhere and returns to the miner
1699 2011-10-05 19:24:25 <lfm> diki php is an odd choice for that
1700 2011-10-05 19:24:28 <gavinandresen> ByteCoin: ... I couldn't think of a way to exploit it, but it worries me as the kind of thing that might be exploitable.
1701 2011-10-05 19:24:44 <diki> lfm:not like i know any other language
1702 2011-10-05 19:24:59 <lfm> diki thats sad
1703 2011-10-05 19:25:36 DaQatz has quit (Read error: No route to host)
1704 2011-10-05 19:27:15 <lfm> ganin there is also the malformed output scripts in 3 other transactions which are afaik unredemable which would require some sort of serios hack to unlock.
1705 2011-10-05 19:27:44 <gavinandresen> lfm: the gazillions-of-OP_CHECKSIG ones? Those don't worry me
1706 2011-10-05 19:27:48 <ByteCoin> gavin: If what he says is true then a malicious miner could screw up a contract agreement. Not a problem at the moment though. I think it could be forbidden relatively easily.
1707 2011-10-05 19:28:03 yeah has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1708 2011-10-05 19:28:16 <lfm> gavinandresen: no, I mean the 3 with a missing prefix byte on the key
1709 2011-10-05 19:28:32 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr force_send * r63afa1e3ed75 bitcoind-personal/src/ (bitcoinrpc.cpp main.cpp main.h noui.h wallet.cpp wallet.h): don't automatically include fees via JSON-RPC, and (with undocumented -nosafefees option) allow forcing them to send with under the 'minimum'
1710 2011-10-05 19:28:36 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr force_send_0.4.x * r42243cf5ab65 bitcoind-personal/src/ (main.cpp main.h noui.h rpc.cpp wallet.cpp wallet.h): don't automatically include fees via JSON-RPC, and (with undocumented -nosafefees option) allow forcing them to send with under the 'minimum'
1711 2011-10-05 19:28:36 <CIA-101> bitcoin: David Joel Schwartz optimize_http_status_0.4.x * r8407215df0c7 bitcoind-personal/src/rpc.cpp: Use C's const char* for status strings rather than C++'s std::string, which is slower
1712 2011-10-05 19:28:39 EskimoBob_afk is now known as EskimoBob
1713 2011-10-05 19:29:00 <lfm> oops, just 2
1714 2011-10-05 19:29:11 <gavinandresen> lfm: what blocks?
1715 2011-10-05 19:30:26 <AlexWaters1> BlueMatt: you need me to recruit a coverity dev?
1716 2011-10-05 19:30:32 <CIA-101> bitcoin: David Joel Schwartz master * rae81b82 / src/bitcoinrpc.cpp : Use C's const char* for status strings rather than C++'s std::string, which is slower - http://git.io/wIUAWA
1717 2011-10-05 19:30:33 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * re653578 / src/bitcoinrpc.cpp :
1718 2011-10-05 19:30:33 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Merge pull request #566 from luke-jr/optimize_http_status
1719 2011-10-05 19:30:33 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Optimize HTTP status messages - http://git.io/ZM2lqw
1720 2011-10-05 19:30:40 <lfm> #140921 and #141461
1721 2011-10-05 19:30:48 <lfm> #140921 and #141460 I mean
1722 2011-10-05 19:30:49 enquirer has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1723 2011-10-05 19:31:16 <BlueMatt> AlexWaters1: I dont need anything, I just though gmaxwell's suggestion of someone reaching out to coverity and trying to get bitcoin on the test site would be nice
1724 2011-10-05 19:31:30 <lfm> the very last txn of #141460 is prolly easiest to find
1725 2011-10-05 19:31:33 <BlueMatt> AlexWaters1: and I dont think it would be that much work that you couldnt do it...but then again I have no idea
1726 2011-10-05 19:31:54 <AlexWaters1> BlueMatt: ok I can get the ball rolling with that - np
1727 2011-10-05 19:32:25 <gavinandresen> lfm: unredeemable ScriptPubKeys don't worry me
1728 2011-10-05 19:32:43 soap_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1729 2011-10-05 19:32:45 [Tycho\ has joined
1730 2011-10-05 19:32:57 <lfm> ok, they seem to me to be in the same category as the duplicat txn hashes
1731 2011-10-05 19:33:50 [Tycho] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1732 2011-10-05 19:34:11 c00w has joined
1733 2011-10-05 19:34:21 AlexWaters1 is now known as alexwaters
1734 2011-10-05 19:34:34 <alexwaters> gmaxwell: are you available for PM?
1735 2011-10-05 19:34:59 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, there could be an internal change such that the database constrint for uniqueness of transaction hashes is block hash + transaction hash
1736 2011-10-05 19:35:17 <phantomcircuit> but i dont know anything about bdb so i wouldn't even know where to start with that
1737 2011-10-05 19:35:49 <phantomcircuit> constraint*
1738 2011-10-05 19:35:59 <ByteCoin> gavin: One way of coping with block chain splits would be to start a new block chain on the new rules which does "merged mining" with the old chain and allows people to transfer coins over to the new chain but not the reverse.
1739 2011-10-05 19:36:26 <CIA-101> bitcoin: David Joel Schwartz optimize_ToHex_0.4.x * rf2d32ac03a26 bitcoind-personal/src/ (rpc.cpp util.cpp util.h): Optimized binary-to-hex converter (ToHex)
1740 2011-10-05 19:36:27 <CIA-101> bitcoin: David Joel Schwartz optimize_ToHex * r26e973c2b217 bitcoind-personal/src/ (bitcoinrpc.cpp util.cpp util.h): Optimized binary-to-hex converter (ToHex)
1741 2011-10-05 19:36:39 Firefly007 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1742 2011-10-05 19:37:14 <lfm> ByteCoin: how would you prevent people from spending them on the new chain then again on the old chain?
1743 2011-10-05 19:37:56 [Tycho\ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1744 2011-10-05 19:37:58 <ByteCoin> lfm: They would only be spendable on the new chain after a transaction sending them to /dev/null went confirmed on the old chain
1745 2011-10-05 19:39:21 <gavinandresen> I'm liking the idea of hiding upgrades inside OP_EVAL / OP_EVAL2 / OP_EVAL3 ... etc and never having to split the blockchain at all
1746 2011-10-05 19:39:56 <ByteCoin> You're trusting the miners to upgrade and not screw over the new client users.
1747 2011-10-05 19:40:15 <gavinandresen> yes, 50+% of hashing power has to be convinced first
1748 2011-10-05 19:40:20 p0s has joined
1749 2011-10-05 19:40:39 <gavinandresen> ... but if the change is clearly beneficial, then that shouldn't be hard
1750 2011-10-05 19:41:01 <ByteCoin> You appreciate that the miners would have the opportunity to screw the new client users if they wanted to be malicious
1751 2011-10-05 19:41:19 <gavinandresen> e.g. if quantum computing was about to break ECDSA then hiding a quantum-secure signature scheme inside an OP_EVAL6 would work....
1752 2011-10-05 19:41:21 DaQatz has joined
1753 2011-10-05 19:41:29 <BlueMattBot> Yippie, build fixed!
1754 2011-10-05 19:41:29 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin-Test build #51: FIXED in 14 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin-Test/51/
1755 2011-10-05 19:41:30 <BlueMattBot> gavinandresen: Fix miner_test unit test bug
1756 2011-10-05 19:42:04 [Tycho] has joined
1757 2011-10-05 19:42:05 <gavinandresen> ByteCoin: but if they are in the minority then they won't be able to be malicious. And they'll lose blocks if they try
1758 2011-10-05 19:42:49 <ByteCoin> If they're in the minortiy fine...
1759 2011-10-05 19:43:04 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: rebased everything else fwiw
1760 2011-10-05 19:43:34 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: cool. Now let me rename bitcoinrpc.cpp again just to piss you off....
1761 2011-10-05 19:43:36 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: the block chain needs to split *eventually*, at least for block size limit
1762 2011-10-05 19:43:44 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: that doesn't hurt git ;)
1763 2011-10-05 19:44:17 <lfm> what block size limit? 1mb?
1764 2011-10-05 19:44:25 marf_away has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1765 2011-10-05 19:44:46 <luke-jr> lfm: yes
1766 2011-10-05 19:44:49 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: good point RE: MAX_BLOCK
1767 2011-10-05 19:44:55 <ByteCoin> gavin: During normal operation there are limits to the abuses you can perpetrate even if you have >50% of the hashing power. With the introduction of OP_EVAL if miners choose not to adopt then they can run away with a lot of the new client's transactions.
1768 2011-10-05 19:45:11 <ByteCoin> It breaks one of the guarantees
1769 2011-10-05 19:45:32 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: I don't think it should be for at least a year though
1770 2011-10-05 19:45:33 <ByteCoin> Just as long as you're aware of the risk
1771 2011-10-05 19:46:04 [Tycho] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1772 2011-10-05 19:46:05 <luke-jr> ByteCoin: new clients won't use OP_EVAL until it's enabled
1773 2011-10-05 19:46:18 <luke-jr> ByteCoin: which requires among other things, 50% of miners to support it
1774 2011-10-05 19:46:26 <ByteCoin> luke-jr: And how will that be assured?
1775 2011-10-05 19:46:38 <CIA-101> bitcoin: David Joel Schwartz optimize_FastGetWork * r9e33fabb5ca4 bitcoind-personal/src/bitcoinrpc.cpp: Detect typical 'getwork' calls and accelerate them. Bypass the JSON request parser, and the JSON reply builder.
1776 2011-10-05 19:46:38 <CIA-101> bitcoin: David Joel Schwartz optimize_FastGetWork_0.4.x * r459f93ce7c70 bitcoind-personal/src/rpc.cpp: Detect typical 'getwork' calls and accelerate them. Bypass the JSON request parser, and the JSON reply builder.
1777 2011-10-05 19:46:43 <ByteCoin> How can you tell in a way that miners can't fake?
1778 2011-10-05 19:46:43 <luke-jr> ByteCoin: <7>"OP_EVAL" in coinbases by miners who support it
1779 2011-10-05 19:46:47 <gavinandresen> ByteCoin: risks and benefits.... I'm convinced mining pools don't have incentives to monkey around with transactions. They'll lose all their customers if they do
1780 2011-10-05 19:46:51 <luke-jr> it doesn't matter if miners fake it
1781 2011-10-05 19:47:26 <ByteCoin> gavin: Ok. As I said, I'm happy with it as long as you know the risk is there/
1782 2011-10-05 19:47:34 [Tycho] has joined
1783 2011-10-05 19:47:36 <luke-jr> once it's enabled, upgraded clients won't accept blocks using it as a NOP
1784 2011-10-05 19:47:51 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, i propose all mining pools add random jokes to transactions
1785 2011-10-05 19:47:55 <phantomcircuit> seems like a good idea
1786 2011-10-05 19:48:08 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: care to suggest any? my coinbase content queue ran dry weeks ago
1787 2011-10-05 19:48:16 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, lulz
1788 2011-10-05 19:48:30 <phantomcircuit> "FFFFFFFFFFRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM"
1789 2011-10-05 19:48:33 <luke-jr> …
1790 2011-10-05 19:48:59 <luke-jr> way too long fyi
1791 2011-10-05 19:49:03 <helo> joke indeed hah
1792 2011-10-05 19:49:32 <ByteCoin> gavin: I suggest that before bitcoin goes to 1.0 we frbid crud, purge the blockchain of all previous transactions, perhaps keep the balances(!) and start a new chain with no crud in it.
1793 2011-10-05 19:49:55 <alexwaters> ByteCoin: that sounds scary
1794 2011-10-05 19:49:58 <phantomcircuit> yeah no
1795 2011-10-05 19:50:01 datagutt has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1796 2011-10-05 19:50:05 <gavinandresen> one man's crud is another man's... something.....
1797 2011-10-05 19:50:09 <luke-jr> ByteCoin: I already do what I can to filter txn spam
1798 2011-10-05 19:50:17 <phantomcircuit> definitely before a 1.0 release headers only needs to be supported
1799 2011-10-05 19:50:26 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: agreed
1800 2011-10-05 19:51:34 <gavinandresen> my list for 1.0 is: pleasant first-time-user experience. Secure wallet, with option for off-device secure backup and confirmation.
1801 2011-10-05 19:51:48 E-sense has joined
1802 2011-10-05 19:52:08 <gavinandresen> ... and I think that's all. I still waffle on whether or not I would call bitcoin anything other than experimental before we hit the first block reward decrease.
1803 2011-10-05 19:52:25 <phantomcircuit> pleasant first time user experience definitely requires headers only mode of operation
1804 2011-10-05 19:52:41 <noagendamarket> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=46945.0
1805 2011-10-05 19:52:54 <noagendamarket> puddin pops for everypne lol
1806 2011-10-05 19:53:10 <phantomcircuit> iirc the big stumbling block ( from a design perspective ) is how to request previous transactions without being obvious about which ones you want
1807 2011-10-05 19:53:15 <phantomcircuit> or something like that
1808 2011-10-05 19:53:27 <luke-jr> "we hit the first block reward decrease." <-- probably a good idea to schedule a block chain fork for that time, since it's pretty likely we'll hit a HUGE hashrate decrease and need to fix the difficulty calculations :/
1809 2011-10-05 19:53:48 <ByteCoin> phantomcircuit: Because the transactions you ask for reveal your addresses?
1810 2011-10-05 19:53:51 <CaptainDDL> You might also work on decreasing the blockchain download time for new installs, it can seemingly take hours at the beginning when you're excited to try bitcoin out
1811 2011-10-05 19:53:53 * BlueMatt is about to kill builds and make jenkins get really pissed...
1812 2011-10-05 19:53:57 <BlueMatt> ignore this:
1813 2011-10-05 19:53:58 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoind-Sanitytest build #48: ABORTED in 12 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoind-Sanitytest/48/
1814 2011-10-05 19:54:08 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #55: ABORTED in 9.7 sec: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/55/
1815 2011-10-05 19:54:09 <BlueMattBot> luke-jr+git: Use C's const char* for status strings rather than C++'s std::string, which is slower
1816 2011-10-05 19:54:11 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: if you have an empty wallet, you don't care about previous transactions (we're talking about headers-only, right?)
1817 2011-10-05 19:54:46 [Tycho] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1818 2011-10-05 19:54:47 <lfm> and why worry about revealing what txn you are interested in?
1819 2011-10-05 19:54:53 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: ignore it srsly? or did I do a no-no?
1820 2011-10-05 19:55:02 <ByteCoin> lfm: Anonymity I presume
1821 2011-10-05 19:55:16 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: " ABORTED" as in I clicked cancel, not FAILED
1822 2011-10-05 19:55:19 <luke-jr> i c
1823 2011-10-05 19:55:40 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, yeah i meant for when you have previous transactions of course
1824 2011-10-05 19:55:49 <luke-jr> CaptainDDL: I think gavinandresen recently optimized the download (after 0.4.0)
1825 2011-10-05 19:55:57 [Tycho] has joined
1826 2011-10-05 19:56:00 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, the issue being as ByteCoin said that it reveals which addresses are you (or rather which transactions you care about)
1827 2011-10-05 19:56:17 <phantomcircuit> the only way I can think to avoid this is to use something like tor hidden services for all nodes
1828 2011-10-05 19:56:20 <luke-jr> guys, this simple change needs attention :P https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=46924.0
1829 2011-10-05 19:56:43 <phantomcircuit> and i honestly have no idea what a sane way to set that up would be (or if there even is one)
1830 2011-10-05 19:57:10 <luke-jr> whiteman: you still here?
1831 2011-10-05 19:57:15 BlueMattBot has quit ()
1832 2011-10-05 19:57:37 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: you would have to abstract and rewrite the entirety of the netcode
1833 2011-10-05 19:57:42 <ByteCoin> phantomcircuit: The easiest way with the current architecture to do it anonymously is to ask for all. With "balance sheets" however it's not a problem anymore
1834 2011-10-05 19:57:52 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: and it'd break all the boostrapping stuff so that'd have to be redone as well
1835 2011-10-05 19:58:00 BlueMattBot has joined
1836 2011-10-05 19:58:02 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, yes im aware if only someone was working on something like that... ;)
1837 2011-10-05 19:58:05 <jrmithdobbs> tho, i think dns seeding could be fixed pretty easily
1838 2011-10-05 19:58:14 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: it's broken?
1839 2011-10-05 19:58:25 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: fixed to work with onion addresses instead of ip addresses
1840 2011-10-05 19:58:28 <ByteCoin> Satoshi didn't code it right to make light clients anonymous
1841 2011-10-05 19:58:58 <luke-jr> ByteCoin: Bitcoin is not supposed to be anonymous. Get over it.
1842 2011-10-05 19:59:01 <jrmithdobbs> basically the dns seed would change so that it was a PTR lookup that return the onion address instead of an A lookup that return an ip
1843 2011-10-05 19:59:20 <jrmithdobbs> that's actually probably the easiest part of the changes
1844 2011-10-05 19:59:28 <ByteCoin> luke-jr: So why do we not re-use addresses?
1845 2011-10-05 19:59:46 topace has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1846 2011-10-05 20:00:03 <jrmithdobbs> ByteCoin: tbqh, satoshi wanted it to be anonymous
1847 2011-10-05 20:00:07 <jrmithdobbs> he just failed in that aspect
1848 2011-10-05 20:00:15 <jrmithdobbs> at least, that's how it appears to me
1849 2011-10-05 20:00:23 <ByteCoin> We can fix it.
1850 2011-10-05 20:00:29 <jrmithdobbs> but there are other reasons not to reuse addresses
1851 2011-10-05 20:00:40 mmoya has joined
1852 2011-10-05 20:00:54 <ByteCoin> jrmithdobbs: Don't keep me hanging like that...
1853 2011-10-05 20:01:00 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, correlating transaction with ip requires access to a link between transaction and ip, although someone using tor would be protected from that
1854 2011-10-05 20:01:24 <jrmithdobbs> ByteCoin: iirc with the curve we're using given a signature and a public key it gets a little easier to derive the priv key
1855 2011-10-05 20:01:24 <phantomcircuit> the major issue is that bitcoins are recombined to form new transactions
1856 2011-10-05 20:01:28 <jrmithdobbs> ByteCoin: was one of them
1857 2011-10-05 20:01:28 <ByteCoin> luke-jr: Still waiting for an explanation why addresses are not reused if the goal is not anonymity
1858 2011-10-05 20:01:30 TD[gone] is now known as TD
1859 2011-10-05 20:01:38 <phantomcircuit> however this is 100% necessary to prevent total fragmentation of the network
1860 2011-10-05 20:01:52 <jrmithdobbs> ByteCoin: i forget the others right this moment, sorry to leave you hanging ;p
1861 2011-10-05 20:01:58 <phantomcircuit> ByteCoin, you dont reuse addresses because it makes accounting harder
1862 2011-10-05 20:02:10 <ByteCoin> jrmithdobbs: If satoshi thought that, he was more wrong than I thought
1863 2011-10-05 20:02:12 <phantomcircuit> if you have 2 people who owe you 10 btc which on paid you?
1864 2011-10-05 20:02:15 BlueMattBot has quit (Client Quit)
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1868 2011-10-05 20:03:03 <jrmithdobbs> ByteCoin: satoshi's crypto knowledge was not fantastic, eg, he partially picked ecdsa because he said it couldn't be used as a block cipher, when obviously it can be used in the key deriv func for any block cipher
1869 2011-10-05 20:03:12 <jrmithdobbs> (mostly for size, though)
1870 2011-10-05 20:03:17 <luke-jr> ByteCoin: we don't reuse addresses because right now there's no way to tell what a payment was for, other than making it address-based
1871 2011-10-05 20:03:18 [Tycho] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1872 2011-10-05 20:03:24 <luke-jr> ByteCoin: with signmessage, we CAN reuse addresses
1873 2011-10-05 20:03:51 <jrmithdobbs> ByteCoin: also, reusing addresses lengthens the time an attacker has to attempt a bruteforce attack
1874 2011-10-05 20:04:10 <jrmithdobbs> ByteCoin: if the keys coins are assigned to change regularly it's just like password and other auth rotation schemes
1875 2011-10-05 20:04:28 [Tycho] has joined
1876 2011-10-05 20:05:18 <TD> g'day [Tycho]
1877 2011-10-05 20:05:20 <ByteCoin> Ok. I take your collective points about using different addresses to work out who paid you.
1878 2011-10-05 20:05:37 <ByteCoin> It's not the "right" way of doing it of course!
1879 2011-10-05 20:05:40 shadders has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1880 2011-10-05 20:05:45 <BlueMatt> its gonna happen again:
1881 2011-10-05 20:05:50 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoind-Sanitytest build #49: ABORTED in 3 min 17 sec: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoind-Sanitytest/49/
1882 2011-10-05 20:05:55 <ByteCoin> But until the right way is avaiable
1883 2011-10-05 20:06:00 <ByteCoin> ...
1884 2011-10-05 20:06:04 <phantomcircuit> ByteCoin, unfortunately it's the only reasonable way to do it
1885 2011-10-05 20:06:06 <sipa> gavinandresen, ByteCoin: if you think my proposal goes too far, it's possible to just add the new operations (or some of them), and not make then pass IsStandard for now, and not make OP_SWITCH implicit
1886 2011-10-05 20:06:33 casascius has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1887 2011-10-05 20:07:32 <ByteCoin> sipa: I certainly like the ability to pay for a signature of a hashed message. That's part of your proposal isn't it?
1888 2011-10-05 20:07:34 Mad7Scientist has joined
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1892 2011-10-05 20:08:33 <sipa> ByteCoin: i haven't though it through completely, but having a signature verification operation that gets its message to sign explicitly, should allow it
1893 2011-10-05 20:08:36 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
1894 2011-10-05 20:09:24 <ByteCoin> sipa: What do you think of an op that pushes the transaction hash on the stack?
1895 2011-10-05 20:09:24 [Tycho] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1896 2011-10-05 20:09:33 <sipa> ByteCoin: OP_TXHASH
1897 2011-10-05 20:09:43 <sipa> read my proposal :)
1898 2011-10-05 20:10:26 <phantomcircuit> sipa, i've always wondered why OP_CHECKSIG is a single opcode instead of 2
1899 2011-10-05 20:10:34 <ByteCoin> Ok. You're ahead of me!
1900 2011-10-05 20:10:36 <phantomcircuit> OP_TXHASH and OP_CHECKSIG as 2 different operations
1901 2011-10-05 20:10:55 <phantomcircuit> i wonder if there is actually a reason or if it was simply simpler
1902 2011-10-05 20:12:08 <sipa> maybe satoshi didn't saw a reason for signing anything but transactions
1903 2011-10-05 20:12:11 <sipa> see
1904 2011-10-05 20:12:36 <sipa> initially
1905 2011-10-05 20:13:07 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1906 2011-10-05 20:13:40 [Tycho] has joined
1907 2011-10-05 20:13:58 <TD> i suspect script evolved out of a previous implementation that did not have it
1908 2011-10-05 20:14:02 Beremat has joined
1909 2011-10-05 20:14:09 <TD> so the simplest place to start was turning all the existing logic into a single opcode and working from there
1910 2011-10-05 20:14:30 <TD> later, he realized people would want to send coins to nodes that were offline, and that'd require writeable addresses, so implemented the hashing thing with new opcodes
1911 2011-10-05 20:14:48 <sipa> sounds possible
1912 2011-10-05 20:14:51 <ByteCoin> sipa: Part of the reason I haven't commented on your proposal is that it's quite far reaching. If we're considering such changes then there's a large space of potential changes of that size to be made. It's not clear to me where we actually want to be going with this.
1913 2011-10-05 20:15:01 <sipa> ByteCoin: i agree
1914 2011-10-05 20:15:21 <sipa> but i like thinking about possibilities :)
1915 2011-10-05 20:15:38 <ByteCoin> The OP_CODESEPARATOR stuff was obviously meant to do *something* as well!
1916 2011-10-05 20:16:11 <sipa> (though i believe that changing the signature algorithm, or how transactions are hashed, is still a degree further away then changing script semantics)
1917 2011-10-05 20:16:21 ThomasV has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1918 2011-10-05 20:16:51 <ByteCoin> further away in which direction ( bigger change or smaller?)
1919 2011-10-05 20:17:01 <sipa> larger change
1920 2011-10-05 20:17:48 <ByteCoin> I agree. But opcodes are more obviously a signal of intent rather than just an implementation detail. Regardless of the size of the change
1921 2011-10-05 20:18:18 <gavinandresen> ... so the date on the Bernstein "High-speed high-security signatures" paper is 2011-07-05 ........... that scares me quite a lot.
1922 2011-10-05 20:18:19 c00w has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1923 2011-10-05 20:18:47 <gavinandresen> (although the signature scheme sounds really awesome)
1924 2011-10-05 20:18:48 <ByteCoin> gavin: Let me check.... there are a number of papers with similar titles
1925 2011-10-05 20:18:53 <sipa> it's based on that 25519 curve, that is older
1926 2011-10-05 20:19:03 iocor has joined
1927 2011-10-05 20:19:08 <gavinandresen> I'm looking at http://ed25519.cr.yp.to/ed25519-20110705.pdf
1928 2011-10-05 20:19:19 <sipa> the Ed25519 algorithm is an adaptation of ECDSA for that curve, if i understand correctly
1929 2011-10-05 20:19:26 <sipa> but it looks all very recent indeed
1930 2011-10-05 20:20:41 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: luckily for us, in terms of bitcoin making an attack on how we do the sigs is pretty much rediculous as long as the sigs are valid (there is one correct sig per data+privkey, right?)
1931 2011-10-05 20:20:54 <BlueMatt> eg timing attacks on bitcoin's tx signing, wtf?
1932 2011-10-05 20:21:22 <BlueMatt> maybe power attacks, but that is still pretty rediculous unless you can control when the signing happens
1933 2011-10-05 20:21:50 <ByteCoin> Bluematt: Incorrect, off the top of my head there are as many valid signatures for a given data+ privkey as the size of the curve
1934 2011-10-05 20:22:06 [Tycho] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1935 2011-10-05 20:22:14 <sipa> the message hash is 256 bits, the signature is 512 bits
1936 2011-10-05 20:22:24 BlueMatt_ has joined
1937 2011-10-05 20:22:26 <sipa> so i believe ByteCoin is right
1938 2011-10-05 20:22:57 [Tycho] has joined
1939 2011-10-05 20:22:58 <sipa> oh, and the signing algorithm uses a 256-bit random number
1940 2011-10-05 20:22:59 BlueMattBot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1941 2011-10-05 20:23:15 <BlueMatt_> ah...well look at me being retarded
1942 2011-10-05 20:23:22 <ByteCoin> The "random" k value is the soruce of the difference
1943 2011-10-05 20:23:40 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, you might want to change the ticker symbol for https://www.interbitcoins.com/ "global" is kind of confusing
1944 2011-10-05 20:23:41 <TD> gavinandresen: nice find
1945 2011-10-05 20:23:50 <BlueMatt_> well then in that case I would argue for sticking with openssl unless the new one produces the same results for a given random k
1946 2011-10-05 20:24:03 osmosis has joined
1947 2011-10-05 20:24:14 <whiteman> luke-jr: You called? I'm in and out.
1948 2011-10-05 20:24:17 <TD> batched verification is something i wondered about for a while, as verifying a block is a batch of sigs
1949 2011-10-05 20:24:20 <sipa> ByteCoin: "the new one" ?
1950 2011-10-05 20:24:23 <TD> but iirc it's probabilistic. might not be an issue
1951 2011-10-05 20:24:42 <TD> not really needed anyway imho. a single large (by todays standards) machine can verify huge numbers of transactions per second
1952 2011-10-05 20:24:48 <sipa> Ed25519 uses a Hash(privkey+message) as random source
1953 2011-10-05 20:24:54 <sipa> instead of real random number
1954 2011-10-05 20:25:08 <gavinandresen> TD: ByteCoin deserves the credit for pointing to "Bernstein signatures" ...
1955 2011-10-05 20:25:16 <ByteCoin> sipa: "the new one" was Matt
1956 2011-10-05 20:25:31 <ByteCoin> sipa: Deterministic k is better
1957 2011-10-05 20:25:32 <sipa> i've heard it being mentioned here a few months ago, tbh
1958 2011-10-05 20:25:39 <sipa> not sure who brought it up back then
1959 2011-10-05 20:25:43 BlueMatt_ has left ()
1960 2011-10-05 20:25:45 <gavinandresen> ... and I agree, we're years away from "needing" to ugprade the signature scheme
1961 2011-10-05 20:25:56 <TD> ah, i'd have thought a bernstein signature would be curve25519 based
1962 2011-10-05 20:26:03 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1963 2011-10-05 20:26:05 <sipa> TD: it is
1964 2011-10-05 20:26:32 <ByteCoin> To be clear, the fast signature system of Bernstein I had in mind was a different one!
1965 2011-10-05 20:26:39 <sipa> oh, excuse me
1966 2011-10-05 20:26:40 <ByteCoin> But all his stuff is good
1967 2011-10-05 20:27:08 <tcatm> phantomcircuit: I think global is fine. They even call themself Global Bitcoin Exchange
1968 2011-10-05 20:27:22 [Tycho] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1969 2011-10-05 20:27:30 <lfm> a small machine by todays standards can verify huge numbers of txn/sec
1970 2011-10-05 20:27:30 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, it's fairly confusing
1971 2011-10-05 20:27:38 <phantomcircuit> but maybe im just weird
1972 2011-10-05 20:27:39 <tcatm> better suggestion? :)
1973 2011-10-05 20:27:58 ThomasV has joined
1974 2011-10-05 20:28:01 <whiteman> Are there any protocol changes planned that would break block chain compatibility? I'm talking about one that would require a new block chain to be created, similar to what is being done with Solidcoin?
1975 2011-10-05 20:28:24 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, sadly no since they've clearly chosen generic names such as to be generic
1976 2011-10-05 20:28:25 <TD> lots have been proposed. afaik none are planned.
1977 2011-10-05 20:28:39 <lfm> except solidcoin
1978 2011-10-05 20:28:47 <tcatm> phantomcircuit: gbex?
1979 2011-10-05 20:28:59 <phantomcircuit> that would be better
1980 2011-10-05 20:29:10 <phantomcircuit> global seems to imply that it is some kind of "global" ticker
1981 2011-10-05 20:29:24 [Tycho] has joined
1982 2011-10-05 20:29:29 <whiteman> TD: Are there any notable proposals that I can read about somewhere, like the bug base?
1983 2011-10-05 20:29:30 <luke-jr> whiteman: you have a way to compile for Windows?
1984 2011-10-05 20:29:36 <TD> don't think so
1985 2011-10-05 20:30:12 <luke-jr> whiteman: Bitcoin block chain changes are likely to be "after block N, the new rules apply", so old coins will be preserved
1986 2011-10-05 20:30:13 <whiteman> luke-jr: Not currently. I need to redo my entire dev environment.
1987 2011-10-05 20:31:16 <gavinandresen> ... and we're just starting to figure out how to decide to make big changes: see https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0001
1988 2011-10-05 20:31:30 <gavinandresen> (speaking of which, there was very little feedback on that...)
1989 2011-10-05 20:31:33 wasabi1 has joined
1990 2011-10-05 20:32:06 Kohree is now known as Cory
1991 2011-10-05 20:32:11 Cory has quit (Changing host)
1992 2011-10-05 20:32:11 Cory has joined
1993 2011-10-05 20:32:11 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, was it advertised on the mailing list?
1994 2011-10-05 20:32:20 wasabi2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1995 2011-10-05 20:32:29 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: yes, I think genjix posted about it on the list.
1996 2011-10-05 20:32:45 BlueMatt has joined
1997 2011-10-05 20:32:58 <BlueMatt> how can a univeristy have shitty internet???
1998 2011-10-05 20:32:58 <whiteman> luke-jr: Do you know if any of the active developers are using Code::Blocks to compile on Windows? That just happens to be my favorite IDE.
1999 2011-10-05 20:33:11 <sipa> BlueMatt: ever considered running your irc client on a shell server somewhere? :)
2000 2011-10-05 20:33:14 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: anything odd going on w/ the jenkins vm?
2001 2011-10-05 20:33:22 <BlueMatt> sipa: never got around to setting one up...
2002 2011-10-05 20:33:26 <BlueMatt> sipa: what bouncer do you use?
2003 2011-10-05 20:33:32 <BlueMatt> or irc and screen?
2004 2011-10-05 20:33:32 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: not that I know of... lemme check
2005 2011-10-05 20:33:33 <lfm> the average block size seems to have peaked and in falling.
2006 2011-10-05 20:33:36 <sipa> irssi in screen
2007 2011-10-05 20:33:40 <BlueMatt> ah
2008 2011-10-05 20:33:48 <BlueMatt> then I would have to learn how to use irssi...
2009 2011-10-05 20:33:49 <lfm> is falling
2010 2011-10-05 20:33:55 <sipa> it's not hard :)
2011 2011-10-05 20:34:05 <BlueMatt> meh
2012 2011-10-05 20:34:38 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: it was under very high load (a bunch of jobs running) then it just crapped out...no responses to anything (http, ssh, etc)
2013 2011-10-05 20:34:38 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: EC2 says the jenkins machine is running. Does it need a reboot?
2014 2011-10-05 20:34:49 <phantomcircuit> whiteman, i dont think any of the active developers use windows at all
2015 2011-10-05 20:34:55 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: doesnt a reboot mean stuff gets cleared
2016 2011-10-05 20:35:13 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, just setup znc
2017 2011-10-05 20:35:16 <phantomcircuit> it's pretty easy
2018 2011-10-05 20:35:31 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: no, it is an EBS-backed instance...
2019 2011-10-05 20:35:43 <gavinandresen> ... so rebooting should preserve everything but swap
2020 2011-10-05 20:35:46 <BlueMatt> then yea, a reboot sounds good
2021 2011-10-05 20:36:06 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: rebooting
2022 2011-10-05 20:36:36 marf_away has joined
2023 2011-10-05 20:36:45 <BlueMatt> thanks
2024 2011-10-05 20:36:52 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, probably ram out of virtual memory
2025 2011-10-05 20:36:54 <whiteman> BlueMatt: When you mentioned QT earlier, is that replacing WX, or side by side with WX?
2026 2011-10-05 20:36:56 <phantomcircuit> g++ loves memory
2027 2011-10-05 20:37:04 <phantomcircuit> MEMORIES
2028 2011-10-05 20:37:04 <BlueMatt> whiteman: replacing
2029 2011-10-05 20:37:20 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: could be...but I think max was like 5-6 g++ threads which shouldnt kill it that bad...
2030 2011-10-05 20:37:43 <lfm> he ment the compiler?
2031 2011-10-05 20:37:44 <BlueMatt> ok maybe it could...
2032 2011-10-05 20:38:10 <BlueMatt> but the suddenness of the crash suprised me, it had been going at similar load for the past 2+ hours...
2033 2011-10-05 20:38:13 <whiteman> BlueMatt: Is that a proposed replacement, or a firm decision at this point? (The move to QT.)
2034 2011-10-05 20:38:19 MobiusL has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2035 2011-10-05 20:38:20 <BlueMatt> whiteman: its already in git head
2036 2011-10-05 20:38:23 <luke-jr> whiteman: I don't think any of the active developers use Windows.
2037 2011-10-05 20:38:35 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, 5-6 g++ threads can use 5-6 gb of memory
2038 2011-10-05 20:38:51 <BlueMatt> yea but those same threads/same compile jobs had been running for hours
2039 2011-10-05 20:39:02 <BlueMatt> (xcompiling qt w/ -j4 and bitcoin w/ -j2)
2040 2011-10-05 20:39:05 <phantomcircuit> they spike memory usage
2041 2011-10-05 20:39:10 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: rebooted, should be able to login now or very soon
2042 2011-10-05 20:39:11 <BlueMatt> so yea, possibly ran out but still...
2043 2011-10-05 20:39:17 <luke-jr> whiteman: (nor do any of the active developers know or care about wxWidgets)
2044 2011-10-05 20:39:17 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: thanks
2045 2011-10-05 20:39:28 <phantomcircuit> so it's only an issue when the spikes line up
2046 2011-10-05 20:39:32 <phantomcircuit> so they'll run fine and then bam oom kiler
2047 2011-10-05 20:39:37 MobiusL has joined
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2049 2011-10-05 20:39:37 MobiusL has joined
2050 2011-10-05 20:39:44 <BlueMatt> yea, but this time...no oom killer
2051 2011-10-05 20:39:45 eumesmo has joined
2052 2011-10-05 20:39:57 <phantomcircuit> also vm's often will have page faults lead to oom killer when you're not actually out of memory
2053 2011-10-05 20:40:11 <phantomcircuit> simply because the latency of page allocation is too high
2054 2011-10-05 20:40:15 <BlueMatt> well in any case
2055 2011-10-05 20:40:23 <phantomcircuit> autovps has that a lot
2056 2011-10-05 20:40:32 <phantomcircuit> if you rapidly change the memory usage it gets screwed up
2057 2011-10-05 20:40:34 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: what kind of VM tech is that?
2058 2011-10-05 20:40:47 <BlueMatt> maybe autovps just sucks?
2059 2011-10-05 20:40:51 <luke-jr> ^
2060 2011-10-05 20:40:51 <phantomcircuit> i have no idea honestly
2061 2011-10-05 20:40:59 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, the same thing happens on other vms
2062 2011-10-05 20:41:07 <luke-jr> sounds like "we oversell our resources a ton, and add swap files as needed!"
2063 2011-10-05 20:41:12 <phantomcircuit> basically any vm that has burstable memory allocation falls for it
2064 2011-10-05 20:41:13 BlueMattBot has joined
2065 2011-10-05 20:41:27 <BlueMatt> oh autovps is the MagicalTux one
2066 2011-10-05 20:41:31 <phantomcircuit> yeah
2067 2011-10-05 20:41:45 <phantomcircuit> it also does suck but has unmetered bandwidth afaikt
2068 2011-10-05 20:43:25 <BlueMatt> mmmm unmetered bw
2069 2011-10-05 20:45:18 <luke-jr> hmm, I suppose there's no good reason not to support TCP coinbaser on Windows at least
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2075 2011-10-05 20:58:23 <ByteCoin> gavin: Ping?
2076 2011-10-05 21:01:19 zhoutong has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2078 2011-10-05 21:02:34 <ByteCoin> You were looking at signature schemes by Bernstein with fast verification. The 2011 paper is too new to implement but the one I had in mind was "A secure public-key signature system with extremely fast verification" from August 2000.
2079 2011-10-05 21:03:21 Daniel0108 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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2081 2011-10-05 21:05:53 <BlueMatt> ByteCoin: can we not implement something that isnt in wide use? something that was created in 1900 isnt any more secure than something that was created yesterday if no one bothered to look at it
2082 2011-10-05 21:07:38 t3a has joined
2083 2011-10-05 21:07:39 <jrmithdobbs> ByteCoin: why not the nacl paper from 2006ish that dnscurve is based on?
2084 2011-10-05 21:11:20 ThomasV has joined
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2088 2011-10-05 21:17:52 <ByteCoin> BlueMatt: It's a Rabin-Williams signature! You'd be hard-pressed to find a signature that's had more scrutiny!
2089 2011-10-05 21:18:52 <BlueMatt> oh, ok sorry, I didnt read it ;)
2090 2011-10-05 21:19:14 luke-jr has quit (Excess Flood)
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2092 2011-10-05 21:19:40 <ByteCoin> jrsmithdobbs: When you say dnscurve I presume you're referring to what I'd call curve25519. I'm a great fan but it's maths on an elliptic curve and hence can't possibly be as fast as the paper I quoted.
2093 2011-10-05 21:21:55 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2099 2011-10-05 21:34:39 <jrmithdobbs> ByteCoin: no i'm referring to dnscurve. but yes it uses curve25519
2100 2011-10-05 21:35:13 <jrmithdobbs> ByteCoin: if it's fast enough to be used to dynamically sign and serve dns requests is more than fast enough for bitcoin
2101 2011-10-05 21:36:18 <ByteCoin> agreed
2102 2011-10-05 21:42:15 noagendamarket has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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2106 2011-10-05 21:52:46 RobinPKR has quit (Quit: RobinPKR)
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2108 2011-10-05 21:53:23 <eumesmo> Hi, The Bitcoin design allow lock a key to not be able to spend btc of this key?
2109 2011-10-05 21:54:16 <da2ce7> eumesmo, I'm not sure what you are tring to aks, can you please re-phase your question.
2110 2011-10-05 21:54:28 RobinPKR has joined
2111 2011-10-05 21:55:03 <sipa> the key is the lock
2112 2011-10-05 21:55:22 cacheson has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2113 2011-10-05 21:56:03 <eumesmo> Sorry, was a stupid question
2114 2011-10-05 21:56:50 <sipa> if you want to lock the key itself, sure - encrypt your wallet, or export the key in an encrypted form
2115 2011-10-05 21:56:59 <sipa> but that doesn't really have anything to do with bitcoin's design
2116 2011-10-05 21:57:07 <sipa> a key is just a series of 32 bytes
2117 2011-10-05 21:58:06 <w00ly> i'm trying to use GLBSE but when i try to generate a deposit address, the cursor moves over like it made one, but there's no text and i cant select the field. Anyone know how to fix this?
2118 2011-10-05 21:58:23 <eumesmo> thanks sipa
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2129 2011-10-05 22:14:12 <diki> can i get more info on what this "time travel exploit" is?
2130 2011-10-05 22:16:43 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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2137 2011-10-05 22:31:07 <luke-jr> yay, coinbaser ported to Windows :P
2138 2011-10-05 22:32:28 gjs278 has joined
2139 2011-10-05 22:32:30 <diki> what is that?
2140 2011-10-05 22:36:27 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen coinbaser * re653578db3cb bitcoind-personal/src/bitcoinrpc.cpp: Merge pull request #566 from luke-jr/optimize_http_status
2141 2011-10-05 22:36:28 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr coinbaser * r16416fd60a99 bitcoind-personal/src/ (bitcoinrpc.cpp init.cpp main.cpp main.h): Merge branch 'coinbaser_0.4.x' into coinbaser
2142 2011-10-05 22:37:32 copumpkin has joined
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2145 2011-10-05 22:39:33 <diki> also
2146 2011-10-05 22:39:43 <diki> i have noticed bitcoin in daemon mode doesnt seem to work under windows
2147 2011-10-05 22:39:49 <diki> the command prompt is still active
2148 2011-10-05 22:39:52 <imsaguy> yeah
2149 2011-10-05 22:39:55 <imsaguy> it doesn't fork right
2150 2011-10-05 22:44:34 <tcatm> windows does not support forking at all
2151 2011-10-05 22:46:43 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2161 2011-10-05 23:02:12 <luke-jr> tcatm: it does support always-fork-this-EXE-at-startup
2162 2011-10-05 23:02:18 <luke-jr> as a flag on the EXE file
2163 2011-10-05 23:04:08 <tcatm> luke-jr: yes. I know. but that's not fork() but rather "runs this as a background service"-flag
2164 2011-10-05 23:04:22 <luke-jr> tcatm: which arguably should be set on bitcoind
2165 2011-10-05 23:04:46 <tcatm> nope. it would break the included rpc client
2166 2011-10-05 23:05:00 <luke-jr> hmm
2167 2011-10-05 23:05:15 <tcatm> once that's a seperate executable setting that flag would make sense, though
2168 2011-10-05 23:05:16 <luke-jr> "let's break the primary function, so that we don't break the test tool"? :P
2169 2011-10-05 23:05:32 Nicksasa has joined
2170 2011-10-05 23:05:36 <luke-jr> actually, I think there's some "Run" command to do it for you
2171 2011-10-05 23:05:42 <luke-jr> run /?
2172 2011-10-05 23:05:56 <diki> luke-jr:does your pool do rollntime?
2173 2011-10-05 23:06:01 <luke-jr> diki: sometimes.
2174 2011-10-05 23:06:19 <tcatm> I don't think you can trust windows enough to store a wallet safely anyway ;)
2175 2011-10-05 23:06:31 <diki> so
2176 2011-10-05 23:06:44 <diki> do miners get the work via an http response header?
2177 2011-10-05 23:06:52 <diki> i.e how does bitcoin send the work?
2178 2011-10-05 23:08:27 ByronJohnson has joined
2179 2011-10-05 23:09:03 <tcatm> diki: JSON-RPC
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2181 2011-10-05 23:11:28 <diki> i know the data is json encoded
2182 2011-10-05 23:11:37 <diki> the question is how does it send it to the miner
2183 2011-10-05 23:11:38 <diki> via what
2184 2011-10-05 23:11:40 <diki> http,tcp?
2185 2011-10-05 23:11:57 <terrytibbs> rpc
2186 2011-10-05 23:12:18 <terrytibbs> via http i believe
2187 2011-10-05 23:12:45 <diki> well i did that
2188 2011-10-05 23:12:59 <diki> i returned a header with json encoded work
2189 2011-10-05 23:13:04 <diki> but the miner failed to get it
2190 2011-10-05 23:13:07 <tcatm> json-rpc works over http
2191 2011-10-05 23:13:08 <diki> so i thought something is missing
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2196 2011-10-05 23:23:51 <diki> anywho, i dont understand what else the miner wants
2197 2011-10-05 23:24:02 <diki> it requests work, i send it via the header...and nothing
2198 2011-10-05 23:24:05 <diki> it is still waiting
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2215 2011-10-05 23:48:39 <doublec> what do you mean by "send it via the header"
2216 2011-10-05 23:48:52 <doublec> I suspect that's where you're going wrong
2217 2011-10-05 23:49:08 <Diablo-D3> [07:20:25] <diki> Diablo-D3:since you have a miner can you tell me why even though i am sending a header response with the getwork, the miner doesnt receive it?
2218 2011-10-05 23:49:08 <Diablo-D3> [07:33:26] <Diablo-D3> diki: needs more context
2219 2011-10-05 23:49:44 <Diablo-D3> I mean, it could be a pool hopping proxy in the way, or the miner just doesnt understand that header
2220 2011-10-05 23:51:05 <Diablo-D3> doublec: I have concluded diki doesnt understand HTTP.
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2227 2011-10-05 23:56:56 <doublec> Diablo-D3: I concur
2228 2011-10-05 23:57:33 rdponticelli has joined
2229 2011-10-05 23:57:50 <Diablo-D3> Steve Jobs is dead: http://www.apple.com/stevejobs/
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