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  17 2011-10-09 00:36:56 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r6cd906a4606a cgminer/main.c: Properly check shares against target difficulty.
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  22 2011-10-09 00:49:58 <diki> does anybody know how to force rollntime in solo for the phoenix fork with rollntime support?
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  32 2011-10-09 01:37:01 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r5133cf5b063e cgminer/ (5 files): Add altivec 4 way support courtesy of Gilles Risch.
  33 2011-10-09 01:37:01 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * ra2072d730467 cgminer/ (5 files): Merge branch 'altivec'
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  37 2011-10-09 01:46:54 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r689f8abbaa6c cgminer/util.c: Try to use SSL if the server supports it.
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  41 2011-10-09 01:56:56 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * ra37b827e6a52 cgminer/main.c: Display the total solved blocks on exit (LOL if you're lucky).
  42 2011-10-09 01:56:57 <CIA-101> libbitcoin: genjix * rdec0da..f1c819 / (21 files in 10 dirs): (5 commits)
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  56 2011-10-09 02:16:56 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r27b05db4a504 cgminer/main.c: Use ADL activity report to tell us if a sick GPU is still busy suggesting it is hard hung and do not attempt to restart it.
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  62 2011-10-09 02:36:56 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r81418d62c7e4 cgminer/main.c: Update displayed messages.
  63 2011-10-09 02:36:57 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * rf9308f8fcab5 cgminer/main.c: Disable work division for CPU mining which can lead to repeated work being performed.
  64 2011-10-09 02:38:06 <shadders> can someone confirm this is current target in little endian?
  65 2011-10-09 02:38:07 <shadders> "target": "00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000005dee09000000000000"
  66 2011-10-09 02:39:02 <lianj> http://blockexplorer.com/q/hextarget
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  68 2011-10-09 02:40:52 <shadders> that's in BE?
  69 2011-10-09 02:41:30 <shadders> I'm fairly sure it is but it's critical I don't fuck this up.
  70 2011-10-09 02:47:18 <upb> i'd guess what you pasted is big endian :)
  71 2011-10-09 02:47:53 <upb> otherwise it'd be like 0xff^6
  72 2011-10-09 02:48:11 <shadders> oh right duh... the target is meant to be low not high...
  73 2011-10-09 02:48:15 <shadders> thx
  74 2011-10-09 02:48:25 <diki> shadders:
  75 2011-10-09 02:48:27 <diki> are you shad?
  76 2011-10-09 02:48:31 <mizerydearia> Are there any active bitcoin-geeks/enthusiasts/devs(including other bitcoin-related projects) here?
  77 2011-10-09 02:48:34 <diki> in the forums i mean
  78 2011-10-09 02:48:36 <shadders> probably just saved a few pools quite a few BTC :)
  79 2011-10-09 02:48:45 <shadders> diki: yes
  80 2011-10-09 02:48:57 <diki> can you please add the x-roll-ntime header to poolservj?
  81 2011-10-09 02:49:06 <diki> you have rollntime in the config
  82 2011-10-09 02:49:10 <diki> but no header
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  84 2011-10-09 02:49:41 <upb> nah its supposed to be a big number to be easy
  85 2011-10-09 02:49:46 <upb> and small number ot be hard :)
  86 2011-10-09 02:49:56 <upb> or not ?:P
  87 2011-10-09 02:50:09 <shadders> not really a priority... psj is handling loads fine atm without it.  I do plan to do it though.
  88 2011-10-09 02:50:10 <upb> fairly sure that makes sense
  89 2011-10-09 02:50:31 <shadders> upb: yes that makes sense...
  90 2011-10-09 02:50:42 <diki> i also heard you found a flaw in merged mining?
  91 2011-10-09 02:53:08 <shadders> not really a flaw... just a problem that all the daemons have, duplicate works... I think some of the pools have modded the JK patches to fix it now though.
  92 2011-10-09 02:53:47 <diki> duplicate works?
  93 2011-10-09 02:53:51 <diki> can you shed more light about that?
  94 2011-10-09 02:54:37 <shadders> yeah daemon can get itself in a state where it fails to update extraNonce so it only changes the work it delivers 1/sec or when it gets a new transaction
  95 2011-10-09 02:56:39 <shadders> there's a post in the PSJ thread where I talk about it...
  96 2011-10-09 02:56:58 <shadders> it's a pretty evil bug
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 105 2011-10-09 03:26:53 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * ra41db9d436aa cgminer/ (NEWS README configure.ac): Bump version to 2.0.6 and update docs.
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 243 2011-10-09 09:58:01 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * e82d3117677c r162 /poolserverj-main/src/main/java/com/shadworld/poolserver/db/shares/BlackHoleSharesDBFlushEngine.java: - add blackhole db share flush engine which does nothing. A quick work around for disabling writing shares to db.
 244 2011-10-09 09:58:01 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * 749d972a7709 r163 / (35 files in 10 dirs): just a small commit
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 255 2011-10-09 10:15:52 <diki> just to ask
 256 2011-10-09 10:16:01 <diki> but does anybody know how many addresses are currently in the blockchain?
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 271 2011-10-09 10:44:57 <diki> at the moment i think its 2,263,406 unique addresses in the blockchain
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 289 2011-10-09 11:11:49 <diki> or maybe not
 290 2011-10-09 11:12:03 <nathan7> =o
 291 2011-10-09 11:13:10 <diki> i get 151,060 unique addresses, thats not even funny
 292 2011-10-09 11:13:50 <diki> so basically, (now)>2,263,406 addresses in the chain, but this number includes dupes, while 151,060 is the unique addresses?
 293 2011-10-09 11:13:59 <diki> lolwut?
 294 2011-10-09 11:14:11 <diki> so for 2 years, just 150k addresses made?
 295 2011-10-09 11:15:02 <diki> can someone confirm this?
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 297 2011-10-09 11:17:35 <da2ce7> diki, not made, but have transactions.
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 300 2011-10-09 11:17:48 <da2ce7> many more addresses are made, but not used
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 302 2011-10-09 11:19:56 <diki> ok, that too
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 304 2011-10-09 11:20:04 <diki> but really only 150k??
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 309 2011-10-09 11:24:06 <diki> so 2,2 million addresses used in transactions, but only 150k are unique, i am kinda surprised, at this rate..19 quindecillion is indeed far away
 310 2011-10-09 11:26:17 <tcatm> even if it was 100 million unique addresses, 19 quindecillion would be very far away
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 313 2011-10-09 11:29:45 <diki> still as the owner of bitcoincharts can you verify its indeed 150k?
 314 2011-10-09 11:30:44 <tcatm> not easily
 315 2011-10-09 11:31:12 <tcatm> how did you calculate that number?
 316 2011-10-09 11:32:02 <diki> by counting the pubkeys in my database
 317 2011-10-09 11:32:17 <diki> well, counting the unique public keys
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 320 2011-10-09 11:40:48 <tcatm> 1977193
 321 2011-10-09 11:43:03 <diki> really, you get that number?
 322 2011-10-09 11:43:12 <diki> hmm
 323 2011-10-09 11:43:18 <diki> i guess something is wrong with abe
 324 2011-10-09 11:43:27 <diki> abe is an opensource blockexplorer
 325 2011-10-09 11:43:47 <diki> but for unique keys or total used in transactions?
 326 2011-10-09 11:44:14 <tcatm> unique addresses
 327 2011-10-09 11:44:29 <diki> ok, i guess i have to redo everything...
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 333 2011-10-09 11:56:24 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * 652bf2f3611b r164 /poolserverj-main/src/main/java/com/shadworld/poolserver/ (5 files in 3 dirs):
 334 2011-10-09 11:56:24 <CIA-101> poolserverj: fix: deadlock in share submit thread
 335 2011-10-09 11:56:24 <CIA-101> poolserverj:  - other misc improvements too tired to remember what they are. Read the diff if you care.
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 388 2011-10-09 13:47:16 <diki> well i am dumbstruck
 389 2011-10-09 13:47:24 <diki> i still get 150k unique addresses
 390 2011-10-09 13:50:15 da2ce7 has joined
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 392 2011-10-09 13:52:40 <diki> and i waited an hour for my query to execute
 393 2011-10-09 13:54:29 <makomk> diki: addresses or public keys?
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 395 2011-10-09 13:55:34 <diki> its public keys converted to addresses
 396 2011-10-09 13:55:56 <diki> 1 public key should be 1 btc address(or whatever chain)
 397 2011-10-09 13:56:08 <diki> so X keys is X bitcoin addresses still
 398 2011-10-09 13:56:13 <makomk> Not all public keys for addresses in the blockchain are publicly available.
 399 2011-10-09 13:56:22 <diki> meaning?
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 401 2011-10-09 13:57:06 <makomk> Meaning you'll get a smaller number if you count the number of public keys than if you count the number of addresses including public keys converted to addresses.
 402 2011-10-09 13:57:32 <diki> uh my db has only public keys
 403 2011-10-09 13:57:38 <diki> so yeah
 404 2011-10-09 13:58:49 <makomk> You're using ABE, right?
 405 2011-10-09 13:59:02 <diki> yes
 406 2011-10-09 13:59:34 <makomk> I'm pretty sure that has a table of addresses somewhere, but I can't remember where...
 407 2011-10-09 13:59:44 <diki> i am using 0.7
 408 2011-10-09 14:00:49 <diki> abe 0.7 pre
 409 2011-10-09 14:01:12 <diki> and i've checked all 22 tables, no addresses just public keys and public key hashes
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 413 2011-10-09 14:13:26 <diki> makomk:did you remember?
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 416 2011-10-09 14:14:12 <diki> actually there is a table with a field called txout_scriptPubKey
 417 2011-10-09 14:14:24 <diki> but i cant parse that since i cant remove this script from the pubkey
 418 2011-10-09 14:14:29 zhoutong has joined
 419 2011-10-09 14:15:41 <sipa> remove the script from the pubkey?
 420 2011-10-09 14:16:10 <diki> i cant know how many characters it is
 421 2011-10-09 14:16:55 <diki> the first addresses in chain have this 4104 before the pubkey
 422 2011-10-09 14:17:08 <diki> after a few more thousand rows its 76a914
 423 2011-10-09 14:17:28 <sipa> you need to pattern-match the script to get the pubkey
 424 2011-10-09 14:17:44 <sipa> there's only a few script templates in use
 425 2011-10-09 14:17:53 <diki> a few?
 426 2011-10-09 14:17:55 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 427 2011-10-09 14:17:56 <diki> any link to them?
 428 2011-10-09 14:18:03 <diki> i'd love to str_replace them
 429 2011-10-09 14:18:17 <sipa> replace them by what?
 430 2011-10-09 14:18:28 <diki> with what or by what?
 431 2011-10-09 14:18:55 <diki> if i know what i should replace id replace it with nothing i.e it will be removed
 432 2011-10-09 14:18:55 <upb> str_replace your way out of a php spaghetty
 433 2011-10-09 14:19:05 <sipa> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script#Scripts
 434 2011-10-09 14:19:20 <sipa> only "Standard Transaction to Bitcoin address" and "Standard Generation / transaction to IP address" are used by the default client
 435 2011-10-09 14:20:41 <sipa> obviously you can't extract a pubkey from a txout script for a to-bitcoin-address transaction
 436 2011-10-09 14:20:51 <sipa> so i'd suggest to convert everything to addresses
 437 2011-10-09 14:20:53 <sipa> and then count
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 440 2011-10-09 14:21:55 <makomk> diki: public key hashes == addresses, more ore less.
 441 2011-10-09 14:22:44 <diki> right, and i have 150k unique, tcatm said 1.9 million
 442 2011-10-09 14:22:57 <diki> so i basically have 150k unique public keys
 443 2011-10-09 14:24:03 <diki> sipa, i dont need transactions, i just need the bitcoin address
 444 2011-10-09 14:24:21 <diki> and i mean ALL of them(but the unique ones, no dupes)
 445 2011-10-09 14:28:09 <diki> well, i have a very very small amount of bitcoins, but if someone can help me with this, i'd be willing to pay him
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 471 2011-10-09 15:43:05 <lfm> diki 4104 is a "length coded constant
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 476 2011-10-09 15:47:20 <lfm> diki actually the 41 is code for a 21 byte constant and the 04 is a standard prefix for the pub key hash
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 479 2011-10-09 15:58:29 <lfm> diki actually the 41 is code for a 65 byte constant and the 04 is a standard prefix for the pub key hash
 480 2011-10-09 16:00:48 <lfm> and script code from 1 to 75 is a code for a constant of that length. opcode 76 means thje next byte is a length code and opcode 77 means a two byte length code, 78 is a 3 byte length code and 79 is a 4 byte length code so you can have constants of any size up to 4gb
 481 2011-10-09 16:01:40 <lfm> the 75 byte constant is a 04 byte which never changes for pub keys and 64 bytes of pub key
 482 2011-10-09 16:02:10 <lfm> 75 -> 65
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 525 2011-10-09 17:07:00 <ThomasV> if somebody uses an e-wallet and send me some bitcoins, in which case can I use their sending address in order to refund them?
 526 2011-10-09 17:07:30 <ThomasV> I guess never, but I want to be sure
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 529 2011-10-09 17:09:22 <lfm> well you could always do that but you should tell them to watch for the refund
 530 2011-10-09 17:09:38 <imsaguy> no
 531 2011-10-09 17:09:40 zhoutong has joined
 532 2011-10-09 17:09:55 <imsaguy> Many e-wallet's don't use outgoing addresses that match with incoming.
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 536 2011-10-09 17:10:13 <lfm> the outgoing will still work as an incomming
 537 2011-10-09 17:10:18 <imsaguy> yes
 538 2011-10-09 17:10:25 <imsaguy> but the ewallet may never credit the person
 539 2011-10-09 17:10:32 <lfm> the right person will get the coins
 540 2011-10-09 17:10:35 <imsaguy> the ewallet provider would get the coins
 541 2011-10-09 17:10:36 abragin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 542 2011-10-09 17:10:38 <ThomasV> yes thats the point
 543 2011-10-09 17:10:55 brunner has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 544 2011-10-09 17:10:58 <lfm> oh ya, if they use a bank then it could be a problem
 545 2011-10-09 17:11:17 <ThomasV> but this seems to be a limitation of the bitcoin daemon, not of the protocol itself
 546 2011-10-09 17:11:40 <lfm> but if theyre running their own bitcoin or bitcoind it will work
 547 2011-10-09 17:12:04 <ThomasV> lfm: sure, but that's not my question :-)
 548 2011-10-09 17:12:11 <Cusipzzz> the ewallet service would get the coins, but if the coins may be credited to someone else or not credited at all depending on the output used
 549 2011-10-09 17:12:13 <imsaguy> not even a limitation of the bitcoin daemon
 550 2011-10-09 17:12:16 brunner has joined
 551 2011-10-09 17:12:29 <imsaguy> the ewallet provider uses different outputs, so that the coins are aged
 552 2011-10-09 17:12:34 <lfm> ya ok if you dont know if they're using a bank or not then you need to ask them for a new refund address
 553 2011-10-09 17:12:34 <imsaguy> it helps avoid transaction fees
 554 2011-10-09 17:13:26 <ThomasV> imsaguy: huh? what does it have to do with tx fees?
 555 2011-10-09 17:13:50 <lfm> the bank can avoid fees by "aging" coins in certain ways
 556 2011-10-09 17:14:16 <ThomasV> why?
 557 2011-10-09 17:14:23 <imsaguy> the more confirmations a coin has, the higher their 'score' when sent.
 558 2011-10-09 17:14:34 <ThomasV> oh ok
 559 2011-10-09 17:14:34 <imsaguy> its a fundamental of bitcoin
 560 2011-10-09 17:14:54 <lfm> cuz there are fees accessed for circulating the coins too quicl;y. it is a smap throttle tecnique
 561 2011-10-09 17:14:56 <imsaguy> so by using 'older' coins to send, they're more likely to go through
 562 2011-10-09 17:15:03 <lfm> spam
 563 2011-10-09 17:15:13 <ThomasV> it's a miners policy
 564 2011-10-09 17:15:14 <imsaguy> because* assessed*
 565 2011-10-09 17:15:24 <imsaguy> ThomasV, its part of the daemon
 566 2011-10-09 17:15:37 <lfm> not really fundamental. ita a policy level rather than protocol level thing
 567 2011-10-09 17:15:51 <ThomasV> yes, but miners could decide to tinker with that
 568 2011-10-09 17:15:58 <imsaguy> only the pools that do that
 569 2011-10-09 17:16:02 <imsaguy> self miners won't
 570 2011-10-09 17:16:03 <lfm> ya they could and some do.
 571 2011-10-09 17:16:26 <imsaguy> AFAIK, luke-jr's the only bigger pool that does
 572 2011-10-09 17:17:23 <makomk> That reminds me...
 573 2011-10-09 17:17:24 <lfm> imsaguy self miners sometimes fiddle with those policies too. the thing is the standard bitcoin kinda enforces it pre-emptivley so people without good knowledge of the source code prolly cant change it.
 574 2011-10-09 17:17:35 <ThomasV> what's the policy of luke's pool?
 575 2011-10-09 17:18:12 <lfm> I think luke includes pretty nearly any legal transaction
 576 2011-10-09 17:18:49 <imsaguy> no
 577 2011-10-09 17:18:52 <imsaguy> they charge by size
 578 2011-10-09 17:20:06 <imsaguy> "Will only include transactions in its blocks if the sender pays a fee of at least 0.1 TBC (0.00004096 BTC) per 512 bytes"
 579 2011-10-09 17:20:25 <imsaguy> in most cases, not an issue
 580 2011-10-09 17:20:49 <imsaguy> and what they don't pick up, slush/deepbit will
 581 2011-10-09 17:20:56 <ThomasV> I am interested in the "return to sender" issue because it would allow to implement a street performer protocol service
 582 2011-10-09 17:21:24 <imsaguy> it requires the ewallet provider to adapt their software
 583 2011-10-09 17:21:33 <lfm> you pretty much gotta ask for a return address of unknown senders
 584 2011-10-09 17:21:40 <imsaguy> yep
 585 2011-10-09 17:22:02 <ThomasV> yes, but that makes it more complicated
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 587 2011-10-09 17:22:21 <lfm> ya, well I guess it is more complicated then. sorry
 588 2011-10-09 17:22:55 <ThomasV> maybe I can just issue a big fat warning for people using ewallets
 589 2011-10-09 17:23:00 <lfm> why would a street performer/begger return donations anyway?
 590 2011-10-09 17:23:24 <ThomasV> lfm: google street performer protocol
 591 2011-10-09 17:23:36 <ThomasV> it works with a threshold
 592 2011-10-09 17:23:39 <lfm> I dunno what that is
 593 2011-10-09 17:23:52 <lfm> bah, just keep the excess
 594 2011-10-09 17:24:26 <ThomasV> no, it works like this: if the threshold is not reached, everyone gets refunded
 595 2011-10-09 17:25:01 <Cusipzzz> just ask for return address on the donation form or w/e
 596 2011-10-09 17:25:12 <lfm> ok well you gotta ask for a refund address then. if the doner decines then have a default forward to a designated charity
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 600 2011-10-09 17:27:02 <ThomasV> no, I will make the refund address optional, for those who care
 601 2011-10-09 17:27:55 <ThomasV> lets keep it simple for those who do not use ewallets
 602 2011-10-09 17:28:02 <lfm> ya if the doner declines then forward it to a default donation address, some other charity or something
 603 2011-10-09 17:28:25 <ThomasV> lfm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threshold_pledge_system
 604 2011-10-09 17:28:37 <lfm> Oh, if they leave it blank and use a bank, then the bank will prolly get it
 605 2011-10-09 17:30:00 <lfm> ThomasV:  you know how to verify an address for validity? ie chech the checksum?
 606 2011-10-09 17:30:12 <ThomasV> hmm, how many ewallets have implemented signmessage ? lol
 607 2011-10-09 17:30:39 <ThomasV> lfm: sure, why?
 608 2011-10-09 17:31:07 <lfm> ok, youll need to do that I guess
 609 2011-10-09 17:31:20 <ThomasV> to do what?
 610 2011-10-09 17:31:31 <lfm> check the address checksum
 611 2011-10-09 17:31:34 <ThomasV> to verify that the address is valid ?
 612 2011-10-09 17:31:52 <lfm> cuz you might not be using it right away
 613 2011-10-09 17:31:56 <ThomasV> you cannot send to an invalid address
 614 2011-10-09 17:32:06 <lfm> right
 615 2011-10-09 17:32:53 <ThomasV> lfm: I use abe, it has a function that checks that. but I would love to have it in javascript
 616 2011-10-09 17:33:18 <lfm> you cant verify the address by sending to it tho. you need to verify it when it is entered
 617 2011-10-09 17:35:07 <ThomasV> lfm: abe has a decode_check_address() function, fyi
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 620 2011-10-09 17:35:32 <lfm> ok that could work, I dont know abe
 621 2011-10-09 17:35:58 <ThomasV> well, it does that and also little bobby tables
 622 2011-10-09 17:36:20 <ThomasV> because addresses cannot contain quotes
 623 2011-10-09 17:36:22 <ThomasV> :-)
 624 2011-10-09 17:36:40 aga has joined
 625 2011-10-09 17:36:44 <lfm> ok, I never heard of a bobby table either
 626 2011-10-09 17:36:59 <ThomasV> lol
 627 2011-10-09 17:37:17 <ThomasV> you must be from another planet
 628 2011-10-09 17:37:21 <lfm> ya addresses are pure alphanumeric, no special chars at all
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 630 2011-10-09 17:37:46 <ThomasV> lfm: http://xkcd.com/327/
 631 2011-10-09 17:38:37 <terrytibbs> lol
 632 2011-10-09 17:38:52 <CIA-101> bitcoin: globalcitizen  * r7b465b6 / doc/build-unix.txt : Collate generic dependency information. Segregate distribution-specific (Ubuntu/Debian) information. Add Gentoo information. - http://git.io/iazBmQ
 633 2011-10-09 17:38:53 <CIA-101> bitcoin: globalcitizen  * rc60aec9 / doc/build-unix.txt : Fix extraneous directory specifier, beautify bash syntax $VAR -> ${VAR} - http://git.io/XF9Yow
 634 2011-10-09 17:38:53 <CIA-101> bitcoin: globalcitizen  * r4adf78b / doc/build-unix.txt : Improved Gentoo instructions. - http://git.io/dSr0hg
 635 2011-10-09 17:38:53 <CIA-101> bitcoin: globalcitizen  * rbdf2f7e / doc/build-unix.txt : Fix typo. Improve Gentoo instructions. - http://git.io/dZCilA
 636 2011-10-09 17:38:54 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen  * rddd9b39 / doc/build-unix.txt :
 637 2011-10-09 17:38:54 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Merge pull request #575 from globalcitizen/master
 638 2011-10-09 17:38:54 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Unix build documentation improvements - http://git.io/Rxzegg
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 643 2011-10-09 17:41:45 <lfm> xkcd IS another planet. they have real skinny limbs there.
 644 2011-10-09 17:42:43 <ThomasV> not like in the usa
 645 2011-10-09 17:43:13 <lfm> ya, more like ethiopia but hi tech
 646 2011-10-09 17:43:18 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: those Gentoo instructions suck :p
 647 2011-10-09 17:43:33 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: patches welcome
 648 2011-10-09 17:43:36 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: is it supposed to be "install from source" instructions, or simple "install" instructions?
 649 2011-10-09 17:43:42 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen  * r4db9705 / src/bitcoinrpc.cpp :
 650 2011-10-09 17:43:42 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Merge pull request #573 from luke-jr/bugfix_bits_string
 651 2011-10-09 17:43:42 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Bugfix: getmemorypool "bits" should be a hex-string - http://git.io/eHXvMw
 652 2011-10-09 17:43:55 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: for the latter, it's "layman -a bitcoin && emerge bitcoind"
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 654 2011-10-09 17:44:18 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: ... but talk to the committer before submitting a competing patch, please
 655 2011-10-09 17:44:30 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: never heard of him
 656 2011-10-09 17:44:45 <luke-jr> he's not involved in #Bitcoin-Gentoo afaik
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 658 2011-10-09 17:48:12 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: would you merge a patch to make makefile.unix dynamic-like by default, but allow 'make LINK=static'?
 659 2011-10-09 17:49:30 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: also, I think Boost 1.41 is the minimum these days for bitcoind
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 661 2011-10-09 17:49:37 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: yes, as long as you update doc/release-process.txt to remind us to build LINK=static so we don't accidently send out a broken, doesn't-include-dynamic-libraries relase
 662 2011-10-09 17:50:24 <gavinandresen> I'm figuring out how to ship a Mac bitcoin-qt that has all the dynamic dependencies in it right now....
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 669 2011-10-09 18:00:17 <ThomasV> gavinandresen: is the menubar of bitcoin-qt in its final version? I don't see the point of what's in the 'File' menu. if it's keyboard access, why not use tabs?
 670 2011-10-09 18:00:54 <gavinandresen> ThomasV: "final" ?   All of bitcoin is beta software....
 671 2011-10-09 18:01:09 <ThomasV> I mean, for 0.5
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 673 2011-10-09 18:02:01 <gavinandresen> Probably.  I'm concentrating on build- and release-process stuff, I'd rather not include any more major functional changes
 674 2011-10-09 18:02:38 <terrytibbs> "Beta" as in "Google-Beta"...
 675 2011-10-09 18:02:57 <ThomasV> but do you agree with me on the weirdness of this menu?
 676 2011-10-09 18:03:12 <gavinandresen> No opinion, frankly I hardly ever run the GUI
 677 2011-10-09 18:03:23 <gavinandresen> (I'm a command-line kind of guy)
 678 2011-10-09 18:03:24 <ThomasV> well, that's a problem
 679 2011-10-09 18:03:42 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: don't forget coinbaser
 680 2011-10-09 18:03:55 <gavinandresen> coinbaser isn't going into 0.5
 681 2011-10-09 18:04:06 <imsaguy> lol
 682 2011-10-09 18:04:23 <gavinandresen> ... at least not the -coinbaser <cmd> part of it...
 683 2011-10-09 18:04:36 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: why not?
 684 2011-10-09 18:04:52 <luke-jr> you had *no* objection to that when I originally submitted it
 685 2011-10-09 18:04:53 <gavinandresen> ... and probably not the setauxwork part of it, either.  Those are major functional changes, and I just said why I don't want to include any more of those
 686 2011-10-09 18:05:06 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: they were ready and tested and had support BEFORE you said that
 687 2011-10-09 18:05:14 <gavinandresen> okey doke
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 691 2011-10-09 18:05:49 <gavinandresen> I apologize for not putting the "no more changes" stick in the ground explicitly earlier
 692 2011-10-09 18:06:09 <gavinandresen> ... but I want to get the new GUI out the door.  I did announce the release schedule a couple of weeks ago
 693 2011-10-09 18:06:28 <luke-jr> they were ready/tested/etc before you merged other major changes
 694 2011-10-09 18:06:32 <freewil> gavinandresen, where can one find the release schedule
 695 2011-10-09 18:06:38 <luke-jr> anyhow, like I said, I'm unlikely to maintain it for a 0.6
 696 2011-10-09 18:06:42 <luke-jr> so take it or lose it
 697 2011-10-09 18:06:46 <ThomasV> and everybody's gonna laugh about the 'File' menu of the gui
 698 2011-10-09 18:06:47 <luke-jr> only hurts your users, not me
 699 2011-10-09 18:06:52 <gavinandresen> freewil: subscribe to the bitcoin-dev mailing list
 700 2011-10-09 18:07:03 <gavinandresen> ThomasV: take it up with laanwj
 701 2011-10-09 18:07:26 <ThomasV> gavinandresen: never saw him. is he on irc?
 702 2011-10-09 18:07:39 <gavinandresen> ThomasV: he's on github
 703 2011-10-09 18:07:49 <ThomasV> yeah, for sure, but I am not
 704 2011-10-09 18:07:52 <gavinandresen> ThomasV: ... and I believe he reads the forums
 705 2011-10-09 18:08:00 <ThomasV> lol
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 707 2011-10-09 18:08:28 <ThomasV> and am I really the only one who finds that the menu is weird ?
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 709 2011-10-09 18:08:53 <ThomasV> (silence)
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 712 2011-10-09 18:13:47 <ThomasV> in memory of steve jobs, please take the time to launch the GUI and ask yourself the following question: what's the point of the 'File' menu?
 713 2011-10-09 18:14:08 <noagendamarket> lol
 714 2011-10-09 18:14:30 <noagendamarket> I stopped and restarted bitcoin to see if it would work properly
 715 2011-10-09 18:15:51 <ThomasV> this menubar is the sign of an unfinished product. Steve would have died earlier if he had lived long enough to see it... err... forget about the logic
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 722 2011-10-09 18:19:40 <wumpus> ThomasV: bitcoin is an unfinished product, it's not at 1.0 yet
 723 2011-10-09 18:20:03 <ThomasV> yeah
 724 2011-10-09 18:20:33 <JFK911> ThomasV: Thanks for making the case that this software is too late
 725 2011-10-09 18:21:17 <ThomasV> too late, as in "should have been released earlier" ?
 726 2011-10-09 18:21:22 <wumpus> and yes the file menu makes no sense, feel free to submit a patch
 727 2011-10-09 18:22:12 <ThomasV> wumpus: I feel free enough to say it without submitting a patch
 728 2011-10-09 18:22:39 <wumpus> yes, but your complaint will get fixed a lot sooner if you can submit a patch
 729 2011-10-09 18:23:13 <ThomasV> it's not a complaint about a bug that needs to be fixed. it's about a poor decision that needs to be questionned
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 731 2011-10-09 18:23:27 <freewil> it probably wasnt even a decision
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 733 2011-10-09 18:23:37 <wumpus> it is a leftover from before the ui was tabbed
 734 2011-10-09 18:23:38 <freewil> it probably was just whatever works
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 736 2011-10-09 18:24:19 <ThomasV> it is not tabbed ; it it was tabbed, it would be possible to navigate between tabs with keyboard
 737 2011-10-09 18:24:34 <ThomasV> it would be much better if it was tabbed, btw
 738 2011-10-09 18:24:34 <wumpus> I'm not sure that we should have a file menu at all, then again, it will be neccesary again when we want to add/remove loading external wallets
 739 2011-10-09 18:24:57 <wumpus> so what keyboard shortcuts for that?
 740 2011-10-09 18:25:51 <ThomasV> depends on your window manager. on my box I switch tabs with ctrl-pageUp/Down
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 742 2011-10-09 18:26:05 <wumpus> I don't understand
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 744 2011-10-09 18:26:28 <wumpus> tabs are something within the application, the window manager has nothing to do with it
 745 2011-10-09 18:26:32 <ThomasV> are you asking how to navigate between tabs ?
 746 2011-10-09 18:26:46 <wumpus> I mean like firefox tabs
 747 2011-10-09 18:27:03 <ThomasV> oh, I am not sure, I think you can change that with gnome, but I might be wrong
 748 2011-10-09 18:27:27 <ThomasV> with FF I switch with ctrl-PageUp/Down
 749 2011-10-09 18:27:27 <wumpus> alt-1 .. alt-<N>  would work I guess
 750 2011-10-09 18:27:33 <wumpus> like gnome-terminal
 751 2011-10-09 18:27:58 <ThomasV> oh yes that works too in FF; I did not know that one
 752 2011-10-09 18:28:04 <wumpus> anyway, it's something that needs to be explicitly added to an application, it's not like you get that for free from the window manager or something
 753 2011-10-09 18:28:15 <ThomasV> anyway, the fact is that bitcion-qt is NOT using tabs atm
 754 2011-10-09 18:28:29 <wumpus> well it is using tabs, but navigation is mouse-only
 755 2011-10-09 18:28:50 <ThomasV> wumpus: I suspect you get it for free from qt
 756 2011-10-09 18:28:59 <ThomasV> if you use proper tabs
 757 2011-10-09 18:29:08 <wumpus> sigh, no you don't
 758 2011-10-09 18:29:26 <wumpus> do it yourself if you know it better
 759 2011-10-09 18:29:35 <ThomasV> no time
 760 2011-10-09 18:29:55 Fuehrer is now known as abragin
 761 2011-10-09 18:30:12 <wumpus> you seem to have a lot of time to chat here
 762 2011-10-09 18:30:22 <ThomasV> yes
 763 2011-10-09 18:30:30 <wumpus> so that's no excuse
 764 2011-10-09 18:31:16 <ThomasV> heh, I am taking time pr provide feedback, so please try to be constructive
 765 2011-10-09 18:32:00 <ThomasV> and you agree that the file menu is silly
 766 2011-10-09 18:32:35 <wumpus> it's great that you provide feedback, but I don't like the way that you do it.. if you want keyboard navigation just ask for it, don't come with nonsense like 'it is not tabbed!!!'
 767 2011-10-09 18:32:58 <wumpus> it's a project in development and keyboard nav is on my todo list
 768 2011-10-09 18:33:29 <ThomasV> ok, fair enough, but I was thinking that keyboard navigation comes automatically with qt
 769 2011-10-09 18:33:33 <ThomasV> sorry for that
 770 2011-10-09 18:34:02 <wumpus> yes you can set keyboard shortcuts for any action, but I haven't configured them for everything
 771 2011-10-09 18:34:08 <wumpus> ok np
 772 2011-10-09 18:36:10 <ThomasV> note that with gnome-terminal, you can change tabs with alt-<n> and ctrl-PageUp/Down too ; I just checked
 773 2011-10-09 18:37:01 <wumpus> ok, makes sense to use that too, then
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 775 2011-10-09 18:37:27 <luke-jr> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/576
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 777 2011-10-09 18:38:38 <ThomasV> wumpus: btw, if you allow me another remark, it is very uncommon to use the letter E for the File->Exit menu. In general, the 'x' of Exit is the shortcut
 778 2011-10-09 18:39:09 <wumpus> so, what do you propose doing with the file menu?
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 780 2011-10-09 18:39:44 <ThomasV> remove the radio buttons, keep exit but change the shortcut to x
 781 2011-10-09 18:39:58 <wumpus> I don't think nuking it completely is a good idea either, but having only Exit makes no sense either
 782 2011-10-09 18:40:06 <ThomasV> or if you don't like 'exit', use 'quit'
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 784 2011-10-09 18:40:41 <wumpus> yes it seems qt applications generlaly use 'quit' (Ctrl-Q)
 785 2011-10-09 18:41:04 <ThomasV> well, 'help' too has only one item ; you can merge them if you don't like singletons
 786 2011-10-09 18:41:20 <ThomasV> for me singletons are fine
 787 2011-10-09 18:41:30 <wumpus> singletons suck :P
 788 2011-10-09 18:41:48 <CIA-101> bitcoin: various bitcoind_build_improvements * rb4d058..903a25 bitcoind-personal/ (36 files in 20 dirs): (9 commits)
 789 2011-10-09 18:42:04 <ThomasV> as you said earlier, you expect new menu items to be merged later, so they will not remain singletons
 790 2011-10-09 18:42:08 <wumpus> then again, bitcoin might add file-related options later, so I'll keep it in
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 794 2011-10-09 18:46:15 <wumpus> interesting, Chromium doesn't even have Quit in its file menu
 795 2011-10-09 18:46:33 <wumpus> Firefox has Ctrl-Q/Quit
 796 2011-10-09 18:47:53 <wumpus> Qt Creator has Ctrl-Q/Exit
 797 2011-10-09 18:47:55 <wumpus> lol
 798 2011-10-09 18:47:56 <ThomasV> chromium sucks
 799 2011-10-09 18:48:24 <wumpus> no browser wars please
 800 2011-10-09 18:48:28 <ThomasV> ok
 801 2011-10-09 18:48:32 <ThomasV> :-)
 802 2011-10-09 18:48:54 <cjdelisle> chromium sucks but at least it sucks quickly
 803 2011-10-09 18:49:06 <lianj> haha
 804 2011-10-09 18:49:10 <cjdelisle> firefox sucks and it takes an insultingly long time to do it
 805 2011-10-09 18:50:02 <wumpus> I mean, if you want a browser that sucks get IE6 :-)
 806 2011-10-09 18:50:23 <ThomasV> btw, please allow me another remark/complaint/rant/whatever you think it should be called. why does the daemon have a 'stop' command and no 'start' command that would spawn a daemon?
 807 2011-10-09 18:50:44 <ThomasV> hmm I think this is for gavin but he left
 808 2011-10-09 18:51:06 <wumpus> because you can only send commands to it if it is already started
 809 2011-10-09 18:51:27 <wumpus> sending a start command would be pointless (unless you want self-replicating daemons0
 810 2011-10-09 18:51:49 <ThomasV> no, most daemons are spawned with a start command
 811 2011-10-09 18:52:08 <wumpus> though it would be fun to add a start command and just ignore it :-)
 812 2011-10-09 18:52:16 <wumpus> no no no , you're confused with /etc/init.d scripts
 813 2011-10-09 18:52:34 <wumpus> those have start and stop
 814 2011-10-09 18:52:45 <wumpus> and are a launcher construct around the daemon itself
 815 2011-10-09 18:52:49 <ThomasV> yes, but why is it different?
 816 2011-10-09 18:53:08 <wumpus> because it is. Look at apached command line arguments for example.
 817 2011-10-09 18:53:38 <wumpus> you know what's the problem and why you're confused?
 818 2011-10-09 18:53:47 <wumpus> because bitcoind is *both* rpc client and daemon
 819 2011-10-09 18:53:48 <ThomasV> no?
 820 2011-10-09 18:53:48 <wumpus> :-)
 821 2011-10-09 18:54:04 <ThomasV> I don't get it
 822 2011-10-09 18:54:13 <wumpus> that's the problem
 823 2011-10-09 18:54:39 <wumpus> most servers have a daemon executable and a process to send it commands
 824 2011-10-09 18:55:06 <wumpus> bitcoin combines them ,and is a client or server dependent on the command line arguments
 825 2011-10-09 18:55:07 <ThomasV> yes, like apache2ctl
 826 2011-10-09 18:55:10 <wumpus> right
 827 2011-10-09 18:55:31 <wumpus> bitcoind is apached *and* apache2ctl
 828 2011-10-09 18:55:55 <wumpus> I've already complained about that on the mailing list one time, but it's kept like this to not break compatibility
 829 2011-10-09 18:55:59 <ThomasV> I understand that, but that does not explain why it would be bad to use a 'start' syntax
 830 2011-10-09 18:56:20 <wumpus> I actually had to convince people that it's not a good idea to make bitcoin-qt work as command-line RPC client :')
 831 2011-10-09 18:57:09 <ThomasV> oh, because some devs wanted to have a server + a client in separate processes ?
 832 2011-10-09 18:57:26 <wumpus> adding start syntax would be weird because adding a  command to the command line means send it to the RPC service
 833 2011-10-09 18:57:44 <wumpus> otherwie you have to parse some commands on the command line and if no match send it to the RPC service
 834 2011-10-09 18:57:55 <ThomasV> well, it would be an exception
 835 2011-10-09 18:58:00 <wumpus> that's even more confused than it is now
 836 2011-10-09 18:58:05 <wumpus> please let's not go that way
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 838 2011-10-09 18:58:42 <ThomasV> have you ever used python's daemon library ?
 839 2011-10-09 18:58:44 <wumpus> let's clean up the source and separate concerns instead of conflating them even more
 840 2011-10-09 18:58:59 <freewil> you just have to understand that when you send a command like 'stop' you are sending a rpc command, thus the dameon must already be started
 841 2011-10-09 18:59:00 <wumpus> no
 842 2011-10-09 18:59:00 <ThomasV> heh
 843 2011-10-09 18:59:07 <wumpus> freewil: +1
 844 2011-10-09 19:00:26 <ThomasV> and RPC shall remain pure!
 845 2011-10-09 19:00:40 <wumpus> freewil: it's another mental step though
 846 2011-10-09 19:00:57 <freewil> what is
 847 2011-10-09 19:01:41 <wumpus> freewil: that it sometimes launches a new daemon and sometimes send a command to a running daemon 
 848 2011-10-09 19:02:19 <freewil> im confused, im not saying we should add start to bitcoind as a command
 849 2011-10-09 19:02:43 <wumpus> I know, I'm just talking about the current state
 850 2011-10-09 19:02:46 <ThomasV> well, it's not so important
 851 2011-10-09 19:02:52 <wumpus> which is why ThomasV got confused
 852 2011-10-09 19:03:32 <freewil> it is rather confusing
 853 2011-10-09 19:03:36 <wumpus> it would be better if it were separate commands
 854 2011-10-09 19:03:42 <freewil> agreed
 855 2011-10-09 19:03:50 <ThomasV> no it would not
 856 2011-10-09 19:03:55 <freewil> separate files/processes
 857 2011-10-09 19:04:23 <freewil> bitcoind acts both as a rpc client and a rpc server
 858 2011-10-09 19:04:29 <wumpus> bitcoin-rpc-client <host:port> <command> <args...>
 859 2011-10-09 19:04:31 <wumpus> or something like that
 860 2011-10-09 19:04:59 <ThomasV> well, keep it as is, please, no two commands
 861 2011-10-09 19:05:21 <JFK911> i have a need for the rpc commands to be localized
 862 2011-10-09 19:05:33 <JFK911> my partner doesn't program in english
 863 2011-10-09 19:05:37 <ThomasV> lol
 864 2011-10-09 19:05:38 <wumpus> rpc client is something entirely conceptually different from the daemon
 865 2011-10-09 19:05:41 <JFK911> is there unicode support?
 866 2011-10-09 19:05:43 <luke-jr> JFK911: that's his problem
 867 2011-10-09 19:05:46 <wumpus> lol JFK911
 868 2011-10-09 19:05:49 <luke-jr> JFK911: programming is English
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 870 2011-10-09 19:06:02 <JFK911> it's lisp
 871 2011-10-09 19:06:07 <wumpus> yes there is unicode support
 872 2011-10-09 19:06:16 <wumpus> if your terminal supports it
 873 2011-10-09 19:06:19 <wumpus> :P
 874 2011-10-09 19:06:40 <wumpus> but localizing API commands, lol
 875 2011-10-09 19:06:45 <wumpus> I think that'd be a first
 876 2011-10-09 19:06:51 <ThomasV> heh
 877 2011-10-09 19:07:29 <ThomasV> in german verbs have separable particles, that could be fun
 878 2011-10-09 19:07:38 <JFK911> someone probably already did that with preprocessor
 879 2011-10-09 19:07:50 <wumpus> just define constants in your favourite language that map to the english commands... 
 880 2011-10-09 19:07:52 <JFK911> ThomasV: well all the programming ive seen in german uses infinitive form verbs
 881 2011-10-09 19:08:35 <ThomasV> JFK911: that's a pity!
 882 2011-10-09 19:08:37 <JFK911> eg. a process might be called muschi_lecken
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 891 2011-10-09 19:19:04 <wumpus> ThomasV: https://github.com/laanwj/bitcoin-qt/commit/d934e7e3ddd7d919e58f76705439cdb15c745951
 892 2011-10-09 19:19:38 <ThomasV> nice
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 894 2011-10-09 19:20:07 * ThomasV pulls
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 904 2011-10-09 19:36:50 <ThomasV> wumpus: btw, are you planning to provide a gui frontend to signmessage/verifymessage ?
 905 2011-10-09 19:36:58 zhoutong has joined
 906 2011-10-09 19:37:22 <wumpus> I don't know
 907 2011-10-09 19:37:39 <ThomasV> I think it would be useful
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 909 2011-10-09 19:38:20 <wumpus> so it's kind of PGP cleartext signing but using the bitcoin private keys?
 910 2011-10-09 19:38:34 <ThomasV> yes
 911 2011-10-09 19:38:46 <wumpus> it sounds dangerous somehow.. what if someone makes you sign a valid transaction?
 912 2011-10-09 19:39:00 <gmaxwell> They can't. That risk was thought of. :)
 913 2011-10-09 19:39:25 <wumpus> how is that prevented?
 914 2011-10-09 19:39:43 <gmaxwell> And extra run of the hash function.
 915 2011-10-09 19:40:16 <wumpus> cool
 916 2011-10-09 19:40:21 <ThomasV> nice
 917 2011-10-09 19:41:31 <wumpus> I have no problem with the feature itself then
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 920 2011-10-09 19:46:09 <AlexWaters> coderrr: pong
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 944 2011-10-09 20:40:19 * makomk mucks with getwork a bit... this seems like an obvious idea, wonder what I'm missing.
 945 2011-10-09 20:44:07 Etlase2 is now known as Etlase
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 956 2011-10-09 21:00:06 <FellowTraveler> hi all.
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 972 2011-10-09 21:33:19 <odysseus654> okay, trying another random channel.  is this the place to ask for cmdline parameters for using db_dump for wallet.dat recovery?
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 982 2011-10-09 21:40:01 <odysseus654> ok, pretty quiet in here.  I really don't want to have to yank BitCoin into a debugger to figure out what's going on here :-( oh well
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1013 2011-10-09 22:21:02 <diki> ;seen
1014 2011-10-09 22:21:09 <diki> ,,seen
1015 2011-10-09 22:21:09 <gribble> (seen [<channel>] <nick>) -- Returns the last time <nick> was seen and what <nick> was last seen saying. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. <nick> may contain * as a wildcard.
1016 2011-10-09 22:21:13 <diki> ,,seen conman
1017 2011-10-09 22:21:14 <gribble> (seen [<channel>] <nick>) -- Returns the last time <nick> was seen and what <nick> was last seen saying. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. <nick> may contain * as a wildcard.
1018 2011-10-09 22:21:22 <diki> ,,seen #bitcoin-mining conman
1019 2011-10-09 22:21:23 <gribble> (seen [<channel>] <nick>) -- Returns the last time <nick> was seen and what <nick> was last seen saying. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. <nick> may contain * as a wildcard.
1020 2011-10-09 22:21:23 zhoutong has joined
1021 2011-10-09 22:21:28 <diki> ,,seen bitcoin-mining conman
1022 2011-10-09 22:21:28 <gribble> (seen [<channel>] <nick>) -- Returns the last time <nick> was seen and what <nick> was last seen saying. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. <nick> may contain * as a wildcard.
1023 2011-10-09 22:21:33 <diki> wtf work
1024 2011-10-09 22:21:44 <diki> ,,seen [bitcoin-mining] conman
1025 2011-10-09 22:21:44 <gribble> (seen [<channel>] <nick>) -- Returns the last time <nick> was seen and what <nick> was last seen saying. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. <nick> may contain * as a wildcard.
1026 2011-10-09 22:21:50 <diki> ,,seen [#bitcoin-mining] conman
1027 2011-10-09 22:21:50 <gribble> (seen [<channel>] <nick>) -- Returns the last time <nick> was seen and what <nick> was last seen saying. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. <nick> may contain * as a wildcard.
1028 2011-10-09 22:26:42 <TuxBlackEdo> wtf
1029 2011-10-09 22:27:00 <TuxBlackEdo> ,,seen #bitcoin-mining conman
1030 2011-10-09 22:27:00 <gribble> (seen [<channel>] <nick>) -- Returns the last time <nick> was seen and what <nick> was last seen saying. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. <nick> may contain * as a wildcard.
1031 2011-10-09 22:27:08 <TuxBlackEdo> ,,seen bitcoin-mining conman
1032 2011-10-09 22:27:09 <gribble> (seen [<channel>] <nick>) -- Returns the last time <nick> was seen and what <nick> was last seen saying. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. <nick> may contain * as a wildcard.
1033 2011-10-09 22:30:42 <gmaxwell> ...
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1080 2011-10-09 23:47:57 <nanotube> TuxBlackEdo: try ;;
1081 2011-10-09 23:48:09 <nanotube> TuxBlackEdo: the double-comma is for one-word inline commands. so that's only picking up the 'seen'
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