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 262 2011-10-20 07:54:17 <phantomcircuit> slush, hey i know someone who does ddos mitigation
 263 2011-10-20 07:54:36 <phantomcircuit> slush, can you give more details about the specific type of attack you're being hit with? i'll try and get him to give you a quote
 264 2011-10-20 07:55:34 <phantomcircuit> !seen slush
 265 2011-10-20 07:55:35 <spaola> phantomcircuit, slush is right here!
 266 2011-10-20 07:55:41 <phantomcircuit> that bot is useless
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 288 2011-10-20 08:36:51 <gjs278> ;;seen "a useful bot, ever"
 289 2011-10-20 08:36:51 <gribble> I have not seen a useful bot, ever.
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 385 2011-10-20 12:14:35 <fimp> why is 0.00000002 returned to the sender wallet when the amount to be sent was 1 and then 0.0005 as fee? http://blockexplorer.com/tx/b09bbe4919853a70b90e5fad5af8e0d13ce9d2103d6a888880e19d35a24601d6
 386 2011-10-20 12:16:09 <tcatm> fimp: could be a bug
 387 2011-10-20 12:17:55 <fimp> tcatm, how do we find out?
 388 2011-10-20 12:18:50 <tcatm> can you reproduce it on testnet?
 389 2011-10-20 12:20:31 <fimp> im not the one with the problem. nickname benne will probably join here later to figure it out
 390 2011-10-20 12:21:28 <gmaxwell> What version of bitcoin?
 391 2011-10-20 12:21:39 Detritus has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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 393 2011-10-20 12:24:50 <fimp> 0.4.0 bitcoind
 394 2011-10-20 12:26:53 <fimp> gmaxwell, ^
 395 2011-10-20 12:28:22 <gmaxwell> so, how sure are we that the amount sent was actually 1? I'm not looking at the code now but by my recollection its simply not possible for it to output less than you asked for.
 396 2011-10-20 12:29:13 <UukGoblin> perhaps a floating point rounding problem somewhere?
 397 2011-10-20 12:29:42 <fimp> UukGoblin, I thought bitcoin didnt use floats
 398 2011-10-20 12:29:45 <gmaxwell> (not that there isn't still a problem here— it should have given the 2e-8 up as fee instead of outputting it and paying a fee)
 399 2011-10-20 12:29:48 <UukGoblin> (not necessarily in bitcoin)
 400 2011-10-20 12:30:15 <gmaxwell> 1 is exactly representable in float anyways, however.
 401 2011-10-20 12:30:28 <UukGoblin> mhm
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 410 2011-10-20 12:41:24 <cuqa> hey, anyone has an explanation why my bitcoind needs like 10 minutes to start?
 411 2011-10-20 12:41:40 <cuqa> blockchain is up2date
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 414 2011-10-20 12:51:55 <Ycros> cuqa: what does debug.log show? I suspect what might be happening is it's loading things off disk, and your disk IO is slow
 415 2011-10-20 12:52:50 <cuqa> Loading addresses...
 416 2011-10-20 12:52:52 <cuqa> dbenv.open strLogDir=/home/btc/.bitcoin/database strErrorFile=/home/btc/.bitcoin/db.log
 417 2011-10-20 12:52:54 <cuqa> Loaded 256200 addresses
 418 2011-10-20 12:52:56 <cuqa> addresses 589193ms
 419 2011-10-20 12:52:58 <cuqa> Loading block index...
 420 2011-10-20 12:53:40 <tcatm> delete addr.dat
 421 2011-10-20 12:53:43 <Ycros> yarp
 422 2011-10-20 12:53:51 <Ycros> or improve your disk IO
 423 2011-10-20 12:53:53 <cuqa> addr.dat is 68mb, blkindex.dat is 271mb
 424 2011-10-20 12:54:08 <cuqa> blk0001.dat is 659mb
 425 2011-10-20 12:54:15 <cuqa> are those unusual sizes?
 426 2011-10-20 12:54:15 <Ycros> why bdb guys, seriously. ._.
 427 2011-10-20 12:54:27 <sipa> ask satoshi
 428 2011-10-20 12:54:46 <sipa> bdb is nice in theory, but in practice there seem to be some problems
 429 2011-10-20 12:54:49 <Ycros> kill -9 == crashed table
 430 2011-10-20 12:54:50 <Ycros> woot
 431 2011-10-20 12:55:02 <sipa> that shouldn't happen
 432 2011-10-20 12:55:08 <Ycros> except it does
 433 2011-10-20 12:55:26 <sipa> sometimes, indeed, it seems
 434 2011-10-20 12:57:12 <Ycros> is bdb prone to fragmentation? could that be what cuqa is seeing?
 435 2011-10-20 12:57:24 <Ycros> though in theory if I'm loading everything it should just scan sequentially
 436 2011-10-20 12:58:51 <Ycros> or it's just plain FS fragmentation
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 438 2011-10-20 12:59:50 <cuqa> ok addr.dat takes long to load
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 440 2011-10-20 13:00:01 <cuqa> but blkindex even longer probably?
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 442 2011-10-20 13:00:22 <sipa> we need to get rid of addr.dat
 443 2011-10-20 13:00:39 merde has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 444 2011-10-20 13:00:48 <tcatm> or just keep only a few addresses
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 447 2011-10-20 13:01:52 <sipa> yes
 448 2011-10-20 13:01:53 <cuqa> what is blkindex exactly?
 449 2011-10-20 13:02:05 <sipa> everything about blocks that is not in the block chain
 450 2011-10-20 13:02:19 <sipa> eg, which txouts are spent, and where they are on disk
 451 2011-10-20 13:02:19 <cuqa> can I delete it too or is it important?
 452 2011-10-20 13:02:24 <cuqa> oh
 453 2011-10-20 13:02:35 <sipa> you can delete it together with blk00001.dat
 454 2011-10-20 13:02:41 <sipa> it will download again :)
 455 2011-10-20 13:02:49 <cuqa> how long will it take
 456 2011-10-20 13:03:00 <sipa> there is no reason to
 457 2011-10-20 13:03:05 <sipa> unless it's corrupted
 458 2011-10-20 13:04:04 <cuqa> rm addr.dat did help
 459 2011-10-20 13:04:22 <sipa> it will help reducing the loading time of addr.dat
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 461 2011-10-20 13:05:17 <cuqa> loading block index still 51477 ms
 462 2011-10-20 13:05:39 <cuqa> but thats definitely better than 20 minutes :)
 463 2011-10-20 13:05:45 <cuqa> thx guys
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 466 2011-10-20 13:08:43 <Eliel> so... if I ever get involved with creating another bitcoind implementation, bdb should be avoided? :)
 467 2011-10-20 13:08:54 <sipa> depends
 468 2011-10-20 13:09:19 <sipa> i think bdb is fine for server environnements, which is where the current bitcoind's codebase may end up
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 471 2011-10-20 13:11:58 <Eliel> looks like block-index load on my system takes 43761ms currently.
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 490 2011-10-20 14:04:27 <Ycros> Eliel: I vote, yes.
 491 2011-10-20 14:05:39 <Ycros> Eliel: would it be in Haskell? :)
 492 2011-10-20 14:06:12 <Eliel> yes, that's probably the only one I might end up involved with. I don't see much point reimplementing it in other languages :)
 493 2011-10-20 14:07:08 <Eliel> and Haskell is the only language from the functional spectrum that I'm ... umm... not exactly fluent in but... well you get the idea :)
 494 2011-10-20 14:07:10 <sipa> i believe roconnor's implementation just keeps the entire block chain in memory
 495 2011-10-20 14:07:24 <Eliel> roconnor's implementation isn't a full client.
 496 2011-10-20 14:07:28 <sipa> no
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 498 2011-10-20 14:07:43 <Eliel> he's building a library that can be used to create bitcoin client.
 499 2011-10-20 14:07:49 <sipa> uhu
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 502 2011-10-20 14:08:24 <Ycros> Eliel: I've been reading over the haskell lib
 503 2011-10-20 14:08:27 marf_away has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 504 2011-10-20 14:08:29 <Ycros> it's good stuff, very clear code
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 506 2011-10-20 14:08:41 <Ycros> then again, it's haskell :P
 507 2011-10-20 14:08:43 <Eliel> yes, I liked it too, mostly :)
 508 2011-10-20 14:08:52 <Eliel> but I haven't read the latest version :)
 509 2011-10-20 14:09:29 <Ycros> it seem the hard stuff is mostly done
 510 2011-10-20 14:09:41 <Eliel> Yes, I love how Haskell implicitly enforces readable code. :)
 511 2011-10-20 14:09:48 <sipa> i was surprised by the compactness of the ecdsa implementation
 512 2011-10-20 14:09:54 <Ycros> from here, it's mainly network protocols
 513 2011-10-20 14:10:00 <Ycros> and persistence
 514 2011-10-20 14:10:12 <Ycros> well, actually, the serialization stuff is done too
 515 2011-10-20 14:10:17 <Ycros> so it's only really the network handling
 516 2011-10-20 14:10:19 <Eliel> unreadable code will end up exponentially piling up the unreadability so fast that even the author can't manage it soon :)
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 518 2011-10-20 14:14:22 <gmaxwell> Eliel: I never found other people's haskell to be to oreadable! :)
 519 2011-10-20 14:14:35 <gmaxwell> But I don't know haskell, alas.
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 521 2011-10-20 14:15:40 <Eliel> gmaxwell: it takes a while to get used to :)
 522 2011-10-20 14:15:55 <Eliel> a looong while :)
 523 2011-10-20 14:16:21 cosurgi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 524 2011-10-20 14:16:39 <Eliel> I'd say it's worth it though :)
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 527 2011-10-20 14:21:17 <gmaxwell> Eliel: One thing that worries me about haskell that contributes to me not learning it is this negative expirence I have with python— where writing fast/memory efficient code requires a lot of specialized skill vs boring code. (and also results in code which is less readable)
 528 2011-10-20 14:21:45 p0s has joined
 529 2011-10-20 14:22:07 <gmaxwell> For a while I had this view "my time is valuable, cpu time is cheap" and wrote a bunch of stuff in python figuring I could just throw more cpu at it.  ... only to find it was slow and when I recoded it in C I could get things like a 2000x speedup. :-/
 530 2011-10-20 14:22:29 <gmaxwell> (to be fair, I know nothing about writing fast python code— and I know a bunch about writing fast C code)
 531 2011-10-20 14:22:34 <Eliel> gmaxwell: if getting every possible ounce of performance out of the code is a top priority, Haskell is probably not the tool you need.
 532 2011-10-20 14:23:09 <gmaxwell> Sure, every ounce wasn't my concern.. but 2000x is a long way from every ounce.
 533 2011-10-20 14:23:15 <Eliel> Haskell specializes in generating correct code.
 534 2011-10-20 14:23:24 <Eliel> the compilers are also improving fast.
 535 2011-10-20 14:23:44 <Eliel> and yes, the things to pay attention to if you want fast code are different
 536 2011-10-20 14:24:02 <Eliel> although, pretty often, prettier code also runs faster
 537 2011-10-20 14:24:32 <Eliel> because prettier usually means simpler and that means the compiler is better able to optimize it
 538 2011-10-20 14:25:13 <gmaxwell> How hard is it to completely know Haskell? e.g. could most expirenced haskell developers write a working (if horribly slow and inefficient) compiler for it?
 539 2011-10-20 14:25:41 <Eliel> anyway, the reason I'm recommending learning Haskell, though, isn't necessarily so you'd write Haskell in the future. It's mostly the thinking patterns needed to code Haskell that I consider useful thing to understand.
 540 2011-10-20 14:26:21 <doublec> somone is writing a haskell bitcoin library?
 541 2011-10-20 14:26:30 <Eliel> I can't really answer that for sure.
 542 2011-10-20 14:26:32 <Eliel> doublec: yes
 543 2011-10-20 14:26:34 <gmaxwell> doublec: there is a haskell implementation, I thought.
 544 2011-10-20 14:26:36 <Eliel> roconnor
 545 2011-10-20 14:26:51 <gmaxwell> It does chain validation correctly, IIRC.
 546 2011-10-20 14:27:09 <doublec> nice
 547 2011-10-20 14:27:32 <Eliel> gmaxwell: but haskell syntax is reasonably simple. Most of the complexities are syntactic sugar that is first simplified before compilation.
 548 2011-10-20 14:28:20 <Eliel> I'm not sure what kind of tricks one would need to do to write a working haskell compiler though.
 549 2011-10-20 14:28:32 Aexoden has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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 551 2011-10-20 14:29:16 <Eliel> yes, as far as I can see, the Purecoin library roconnor is writing has everything needed to validate the chain.
 552 2011-10-20 14:30:16 <Eliel> gmaxwell: I wouldn't call myself experienced Haskell developer :)
 553 2011-10-20 14:31:21 <iddo> gmaxwell: regarding speed, comparing to python isn't the same, because haskell can be faster than C for distributed computation: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/benchmark.php?test=threadring&lang=all
 554 2011-10-20 14:32:01 <gmaxwell> iddo: the shootout isn't useful. Go look at the code. It's not code anyone would _normally_ write for many languages. It's all hyper-tuned.
 555 2011-10-20 14:32:37 <doublec> especially for haskell. they rarely use idiomatic haskell code iirc.
 556 2011-10-20 14:32:55 <gmaxwell> (and unreadable in many cases— even in languages that are normally pretty readable)
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 558 2011-10-20 14:33:28 <sipa> gmaxwell: completely knowing Haskell: there are quite some features i know how they behave semantically, but i have no idea how to implement them
 559 2011-10-20 14:33:54 <sipa> type inference in the presence of many type system extensions is definitely not trivial, e.g.
 560 2011-10-20 14:34:11 <gmaxwell> hm. yea..
 561 2011-10-20 14:34:14 <sipa> even if you know how it behaves
 562 2011-10-20 14:35:12 <Eliel> gmaxwell: the haskell code for that particular benchmark is remarkably simple and readable :)
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 564 2011-10-20 14:35:53 <Eliel> of  course, provided you know the libraries it's using
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 566 2011-10-20 14:36:17 <Eliel> those are pretty standard ones though
 567 2011-10-20 14:38:02 <gmaxwell> Is there a logic programming / constraint solver library people commonly use with haskell?
 568 2011-10-20 14:38:58 <Ycros> gmaxwell: Parsing is one thing that's fantastically easy in Haskell
 569 2011-10-20 14:39:06 <Ycros> first thing I ever did in haskell was write a parser
 570 2011-10-20 14:39:11 <Ycros> (who needs Hello World?)
 571 2011-10-20 14:39:15 <Eliel> gmaxwell: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Logic_programming_example this what you mean?
 572 2011-10-20 14:39:50 <doublec> there are gecode wrappers
 573 2011-10-20 14:39:53 <Ycros> gmaxwell: Understanding Haskell will make you a better programmer, if you use it or not.
 574 2011-10-20 14:40:02 <sipa> gmaxwell: my PhD involved an EDSL for constraint solving in haskell
 575 2011-10-20 14:40:21 <sipa> (it used Gecode as a backend, but it's not very usable yet)
 576 2011-10-20 14:41:01 <Eliel> also for constraint solving, I found this blog article (didn't read it, obviously) http://overtond.blogspot.com/2008/07/pre.html
 577 2011-10-20 14:41:32 <sipa> yes, i used that solver too, but that's not usable for real problems
 578 2011-10-20 14:41:39 <doublec> sipa: is that the 'monadic constraint programming' stuff?
 579 2011-10-20 14:41:43 <sipa> doublec: yes
 580 2011-10-20 14:41:55 <doublec> nifty
 581 2011-10-20 14:42:30 <Ycros> gmaxwell: btw, I consider myself a totally pragmatic and "real world" programmer, when I hear someone like sipa talking about Phd stuff like my eyes glaze over
 582 2011-10-20 14:42:32 <Ycros> I still like Haskell.
 583 2011-10-20 14:42:40 <gmaxwell> sipa: Cool. I use gecode.  I actually like minion a lot but often run into limitations with it, so I've been kinda looking for something to replace minion in my toolbelt.
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 597 2011-10-20 15:10:59 <fimp> gmaxwell, UukGoblin, tcatm, turned out to be a bug in 3rd party software
 598 2011-10-20 15:11:33 <UukGoblin> told'ya ;-]
 599 2011-10-20 15:13:56 <tcatm> fimp: which? :)
 600 2011-10-20 15:14:35 <fimp> tcatm, I asked a question earlier...
 601 2011-10-20 15:16:14 <tcatm> yes, but which 3rd party software has that bug?
 602 2011-10-20 15:19:16 <gmaxwell> grep 'float' *.[ch]
 603 2011-10-20 15:26:28 <UukGoblin> gmaxwell, you want *.cpp ;-]
 604 2011-10-20 15:26:36 <UukGoblin> serialize.h contains it ;-]
 605 2011-10-20 15:26:53 <UukGoblin> and yeah, bitcoin itself is fine, but things that talk to it via rpc might get confused
 606 2011-10-20 15:26:56 <gmaxwell> No, _I_ don't want *.cpp. ;)
 607 2011-10-20 15:30:44 <UukGoblin> <flame>cpp is superior by two pluses!</flame>
 608 2011-10-20 15:31:12 <sipa> it's a post-increment
 609 2011-10-20 15:31:19 <sipa> so c == c++ ;)
 610 2011-10-20 15:31:26 <UukGoblin> lulz
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 613 2011-10-20 15:47:43 <Diablo-D3> >mrb post on HN
 614 2011-10-20 15:47:50 <Diablo-D3> now where did that flag link go....
 615 2011-10-20 15:48:03 <Diablo-D3> jk
 616 2011-10-20 15:49:18 <Diablo-D3> argh!
 617 2011-10-20 15:49:21 <Diablo-D3> mrb's karma is more than mine!
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 620 2011-10-20 15:53:08 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * b3e1ce2468dc r165 / (25 files in 12 dirs): Been a while since I committed and not sure exactly state it's in ATM but some people want to play so pushing to public repo.
 621 2011-10-20 15:53:29 <Diablo-D3> bad shadders!
 622 2011-10-20 15:53:36 <Diablo-D3> commit frequently!
 623 2011-10-20 15:54:16 <shadders> it was a fucking mess there for a while... no one would've been able to make sense of it...
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 633 2011-10-20 16:12:55 <CIA-101> libbitcoin: genjix * r6d86ae044920 / (include/bitcoin/validate.hpp src/validate.cpp): Supposed to count *SIG operations, not all operations for CheckBlock sigops check.
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 641 2011-10-20 16:30:39 <cuqa> can I get the target from a winning hash?
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 643 2011-10-20 16:32:12 <Eliel> cuqa: no, you can only get an upper bound for the target from a winning hash.
 644 2011-10-20 16:32:47 <Eliel> it's entirely possible for the winning hash to be a few orders of magnitude higher than the target though.
 645 2011-10-20 16:32:50 <Eliel> even if that's rare.
 646 2011-10-20 16:33:38 <Eliel> or is it more accurate to say lower? ... well, I guess you got the idea anyway :)
 647 2011-10-20 16:42:00 <Eliel> gmaxwell: did you look at the links I gave you about logic programming and constraint solving?
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 659 2011-10-20 17:00:35 <pascal> Is there no way to validate that I'm getting the real bitcoin release? There is no https on the website and no md5sum of the releases.
 660 2011-10-20 17:00:55 <gmaxwell> the release announcements are signed and have hashes.
 661 2011-10-20 17:01:00 <pascal> How can I know that I'm not being man-in-the-middle'd?
 662 2011-10-20 17:01:44 Lopuz has joined
 663 2011-10-20 17:01:56 <Diablo-D3> pascal: errrr
 664 2011-10-20 17:02:00 <Diablo-D3> sf.net supports https
 665 2011-10-20 17:02:11 <imsaguy2> pascal, then download the source and compile yourself
 666 2011-10-20 17:02:26 rdponticelli_ has joined
 667 2011-10-20 17:02:40 <Ycros> pascal: you can ask us for a hash
 668 2011-10-20 17:02:46 <Ycros> but then, we might all be bots anyway
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 672 2011-10-20 17:04:06 <pascal> I'm finding no hash of the file in the release announcement - which btw doesn't support https: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=28132490
 673 2011-10-20 17:04:30 rdponticelli has joined
 674 2011-10-20 17:04:38 <pascal> Ycros: I don't know who you are..
 675 2011-10-20 17:05:05 <pascal> imsaguy2: I don't have the ressources and skills to read through it all.
 676 2011-10-20 17:06:12 zapnap has joined
 677 2011-10-20 17:07:32 <Ycros> yeah that's a bug
 678 2011-10-20 17:07:42 <pascal> How can I know I'm not downloading a file that criminals has altered?
 679 2011-10-20 17:08:14 <Ycros> http://bitcoin.org/2011/09/23/v0.4.0.html states it contains signatures, but it doesn't.
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 682 2011-10-20 17:11:59 <pascal> Ycros: and it's written on non-https. which any man-in-the-middle could change
 683 2011-10-20 17:14:05 <Ycros> how about github? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/downloads
 684 2011-10-20 17:21:24 <gmaxwell> pascal: the mail archive appears to have hidden the signature.
 685 2011-10-20 17:21:30 <pascal> Ycros: the only way I know about that repo is because you (who I don't know) are writing it to me in a non-encrypted forum
 686 2011-10-20 17:22:22 <Ycros> none of this is real!
 687 2011-10-20 17:22:40 <gmaxwell> pascal: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=printpage;topic=45410.0
 688 2011-10-20 17:22:55 <pascal> gmaxwell: It's still problematic if I can't get verify who's giving me the hash
 689 2011-10-20 17:23:01 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 690 2011-10-20 17:23:14 <gmaxwell> pascal: ITS SIGNED. Use the web of trust to verify the identity of the signer.
 691 2011-10-20 17:23:21 <pascal> Ycros: so many got hacked lately and it's a lot of money
 692 2011-10-20 17:24:26 <gmaxwell> pascal: Hm? what are you talking about?
 693 2011-10-20 17:24:39 <Ycros> PGP sigs, looks good to me.
 694 2011-10-20 17:25:43 <pascal> There is a lot of money in doing a man-in-the-middle for bitcoin.org. Imagine controling somebody's client.
 695 2011-10-20 17:27:19 <gmaxwell> pascal: No one has done that.
 696 2011-10-20 17:27:22 <pascal> Problem is I'm not so much into PGP... So I don't really know how to do this.
 697 2011-10-20 17:27:24 <pascal> yet
 698 2011-10-20 17:27:32 <gmaxwell> pascal: then how could you be helped at all?
 699 2011-10-20 17:27:32 <pascal> perhaps
 700 2011-10-20 17:27:52 <pascal> https on bitcoin.org with a HASH. That would help me a lot!
 701 2011-10-20 17:28:41 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: Your pgp key isn't a member of the web-of-trust strong set. Thats unfortunate. You should fix that— get debian developers to sign your key at the next free software related event you end up near.
 702 2011-10-20 17:29:21 rdponticelli has joined
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 704 2011-10-20 17:32:01 <gmaxwell> pascal: thats not especially secure— because the SSL certificate must be online (of course) it means that anyone who hacks the webserver can update those hashes undetectably.
 705 2011-10-20 17:32:30 <gmaxwell> the pgp signature is better because the signing key doesn't need to be kept online unencrypted all the time.
 706 2011-10-20 17:32:54 <gmaxwell> Though … you're right that bitcoin.org should be using https.. there was some snafu with domain ownership that might still be impeading that.
 707 2011-10-20 17:32:55 <Ycros> PGP is the best method I know to verify something's authenticity
 708 2011-10-20 17:33:57 <pascal> Yes - but at least you have to hack the webserver.  Also I don't see why you should remove PGP. just because I don't use it..
 709 2011-10-20 17:34:35 <gmaxwell> pascal: The false sense of security isn't great, but fair enough.
 710 2011-10-20 17:36:29 <pascal> Having a https connection would greatly reduce the risk for me and a lot of other people. Having a PGP signature helps as well.
 711 2011-10-20 17:39:00 <gmaxwell> Almost no one will check the hashes at all.
 712 2011-10-20 17:39:18 <gmaxwell> Of those that will, most will check the pgp signatures (which is the gold standard)
 713 2011-10-20 17:39:31 <gmaxwell> I'm not opposing https there by any means, just pointing out that its not that big of an improvement.
 714 2011-10-20 17:44:30 <pascal> I do. Perhaps I'm a middle segment. The release announcement which is linked to from the unsigned webpage there is no PGP signature as stated.
 715 2011-10-20 17:49:23 * nathan7 gnaws on pascal's ear
 716 2011-10-20 17:49:56 <pascal> :-)
 717 2011-10-20 17:50:00 zooko has joined
 718 2011-10-20 17:50:29 <nathan7> Hi zooko!
 719 2011-10-20 17:50:46 <nathan7> (look at me, I'm all important)
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 729 2011-10-20 18:09:30 <pascal> gmaxwell: is it something you guys could look at?
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 744 2011-10-20 18:38:57 <diki> terrytibbs:why are you banned from the forums and labeled as scammer?
 745 2011-10-20 18:40:08 <Diablo-D3> isnt that sort of self-evident?
 746 2011-10-20 18:40:25 <diki> so it was you
 747 2011-10-20 18:40:34 <Diablo-D3> huh?
 748 2011-10-20 18:40:38 <Diablo-D3> I cant ban people, remember?
 749 2011-10-20 18:40:38 <diki> So what he do?
 750 2011-10-20 18:40:43 <Diablo-D3> formus wont let me take out the garbage.
 751 2011-10-20 18:40:47 <diki> Diablo-D3:how would i remember?
 752 2011-10-20 18:40:59 <Diablo-D3> diki: Ive repeatedly said theymos wont let me have the banhammer
 753 2011-10-20 18:41:06 <Diablo-D3> I say this pretty much on a bidaily basis
 754 2011-10-20 18:41:54 <diki> so..notch will soon start cleaning out the bugs
 755 2011-10-20 18:42:04 b4epoche has joined
 756 2011-10-20 18:42:05 <diki> and maybe just maybe have a bug-free Minecraft
 757 2011-10-20 18:42:07 <diki> with better performance
 758 2011-10-20 18:42:12 <Diablo-D3> bwhahaha
 759 2011-10-20 18:42:13 <Diablo-D3> I doubt it
 760 2011-10-20 18:42:20 <diki> He's very good at Java
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 762 2011-10-20 18:43:00 TheDaniel0108 is now known as Daniel0108
 763 2011-10-20 18:43:01 <Diablo-D3> bwhahahahaha
 764 2011-10-20 18:43:03 <Diablo-D3> the fuck he is
 765 2011-10-20 18:43:04 <gjs278> bugfree performance
 766 2011-10-20 18:43:06 <gjs278> are you kidding me
 767 2011-10-20 18:43:17 zooko has left ("ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)")
 768 2011-10-20 18:43:18 <gjs278> he's added way too much stuff for him to bugfree it
 769 2011-10-20 18:43:22 <Diablo-D3> the only bugfree performance is in my pants! and its huge in your mom!
 770 2011-10-20 18:43:22 <diki> i said that with sarcasm
 771 2011-10-20 18:43:38 <diki> Diablo-D3:nice to see you have a sense of humor
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 775 2011-10-20 18:45:30 <diki> I do agree thought that the game's changed in terms of gameplay
 776 2011-10-20 18:45:39 <diki> potions do make minecraft a bit...dungeony
 777 2011-10-20 18:46:32 <diki> once dragons are released, i doubt anything will stop me from calling the game "Dungeons&Dragons"
 778 2011-10-20 18:46:36 <nathan7> lol
 779 2011-10-20 18:46:48 <nathan7> java.. bugfree..
 780 2011-10-20 18:46:49 <gjs278> I'm going straight to the end as soon as they are in smp
 781 2011-10-20 18:47:06 <diki> the end as in...the ender world?
 782 2011-10-20 18:47:14 <gjs278> yes
 783 2011-10-20 18:47:29 <diki> nathan7:you are implying diablo's miner is buggy
 784 2011-10-20 18:47:44 <gjs278> it spawns nothing but endermen and enderdragon
 785 2011-10-20 18:47:48 <nathan7> diki: Totally.
 786 2011-10-20 18:47:50 <gjs278> and there ar eno resources
 787 2011-10-20 18:48:06 <diki> i hope it doesnt die like the nether
 788 2011-10-20 18:48:21 <diki> i've simply no need to go to the nether
 789 2011-10-20 18:48:30 <gjs278> there are a lot of reasons
 790 2011-10-20 18:48:32 <gjs278> the blocks
 791 2011-10-20 18:48:33 <gjs278> are good
 792 2011-10-20 18:48:39 <gjs278> zombie pigmen and gold ore
 793 2011-10-20 18:48:55 <diki> ugh...there is no gold ore in the nether
 794 2011-10-20 18:48:59 <gjs278> yes there is
 795 2011-10-20 18:49:03 <gjs278> you kill pigmen
 796 2011-10-20 18:49:05 <gjs278> and they drop it
 797 2011-10-20 18:49:06 <diki> just that light source
 798 2011-10-20 18:49:43 <diki> What i need is wooden bucket
 799 2011-10-20 18:49:56 <gjs278> enjoy picking up lava in a wooden bucket
 800 2011-10-20 18:50:05 <diki> that is where the iron bucket comes in
 801 2011-10-20 18:50:23 <diki> i literally have water 10 blocks away from me...and i cant fucking pick it up
 802 2011-10-20 18:50:46 <gjs278> what
 803 2011-10-20 18:50:49 <gjs278> get 9 iron
 804 2011-10-20 18:50:54 <gjs278> and enjoy your buckets
 805 2011-10-20 18:50:57 <diki> as if iron is easy to get
 806 2011-10-20 18:50:58 <gjs278> iron is everywhere
 807 2011-10-20 18:51:01 <diki> wood on the other hand is
 808 2011-10-20 18:51:08 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 809 2011-10-20 18:51:50 <diki> i will suggest this in the forums
 810 2011-10-20 18:52:48 <gjs278> it's feature freeze now though
 811 2011-10-20 18:53:14 <diki> code..code freeze
 812 2011-10-20 18:53:28 <gjs278> it's not a code freeze
 813 2011-10-20 18:53:37 <gjs278> if it's a code freeze he couldnt fix bugs
 814 2011-10-20 18:53:44 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 815 2011-10-20 18:53:46 <diki> http://www.minecraftforum.net/news/275-minecraft-code-freeze-in-effect/
 816 2011-10-20 18:54:03 <gjs278> notch is wrong then
 817 2011-10-20 18:54:05 merde has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 818 2011-10-20 18:54:12 <gjs278> oh
 819 2011-10-20 18:54:14 <gjs278> wait
 820 2011-10-20 18:54:16 <gjs278> notch is right
 821 2011-10-20 18:54:18 <gjs278> Feature freeze! The boss fight is technically in the game. The fact that it sucks can be considered a bug, right? =D (right?)
 822 2011-10-20 18:54:18 merde has joined
 823 2011-10-20 18:54:19 <gjs278> right there
 824 2011-10-20 18:54:21 <gjs278> click the link
 825 2011-10-20 18:54:28 <gjs278> http://twitter.com/#!/notch/status/126319345054924800
 826 2011-10-20 18:54:31 <gjs278> nice code freeze
 827 2011-10-20 18:55:18 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 828 2011-10-20 18:57:57 <CIA-101> libbitcoin: genjix * r573aacef1aba /src/ (kernel.cpp storage/postgresql_storage.cpp): Shouldn't send getdata with 0 inventories.
 829 2011-10-20 18:57:58 <CIA-101> libbitcoin: genjix * rb63a34405242 /src/storage/postgresql_storage.cpp: Faster way to find maximum depth for best chain for creating block locator.
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 844 2011-10-20 19:18:00 <diki> On a side note, while i am no coder and should not be criticizing other people's work which i've gotten for free NOR endorse the author to stop coding it, but i've been looking at pushpoold and more specifically minerd aka the original cpu miner by jgarzik and have to say that there is just too much code for not so much stuff to be done..it feels like he has added unnecesary code in there
 845 2011-10-20 19:18:40 zhoutong has joined
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 849 2011-10-20 19:22:18 <diki> Even btcguild's pool operator has confirmed that pushpoold should be much faster than it is, where the java pool backend poolserverj is much faster
 850 2011-10-20 19:23:02 marf_away has joined
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 856 2011-10-20 19:27:59 <diki> I agree that a lot of people probably do not use gcc's switches to further optimize the program, but they help and are available in the GCC documentation
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 877 2011-10-20 20:16:46 <gorgon> sup brodogs
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 908 2011-10-20 21:58:18 <Davincij15> Ok someone better take me seriously cuz I am sell all my BTC right now.. I WAS ABLE TO DOUBLE SPEND!
 909 2011-10-20 21:58:34 <Davincij15> I run nmcbit.com
 910 2011-10-20 21:59:09 <cjdelisl1> do you have the transaction ids?
 911 2011-10-20 21:59:13 <cjdelisl1> and the blocks?
 912 2011-10-20 22:00:39 <Davincij15> Yes I will give them to you one sec but first off who are you?
 913 2011-10-20 22:00:49 <Davincij15> are you a bitcoin developer?
 914 2011-10-20 22:00:59 <diki> Davincij15:does it matter?
 915 2011-10-20 22:01:38 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
 916 2011-10-20 22:01:58 <Davincij15> ok guess not but I would like some answers as I dead serious about this.
 917 2011-10-20 22:02:14 <gmaxwell> Well we'd need to see the transactions in order to start answering anything.
 918 2011-10-20 22:02:28 <diki> sounds fake..
 919 2011-10-20 22:02:46 santzes has joined
 920 2011-10-20 22:03:10 <Davincij15> "fc2c54cfe0baa718f335ebf0274d2da0ee629f55f32fbcd95f20084b0a9466e0"
 921 2011-10-20 22:03:19 <gmaxwell> And?
 922 2011-10-20 22:03:20 <Davincij15> "b9ae43be271acb94658307720ebca086bb8933eabceec82a3cdea12612ff5254"
 923 2011-10-20 22:03:26 <rjk2> could be possible since slush has been offline for a day, he had over 1thsh on it and removing that suddenly could screw things up
 924 2011-10-20 22:03:39 <gmaxwell> rjk2: .... no thats nonsense. Be quiet.
 925 2011-10-20 22:04:01 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 926 2011-10-20 22:04:10 <Davincij15> "eb5e1defca6d2413bc00a750d9f67e15f99753cff0476130647cd2ee9f4e6c74"
 927 2011-10-20 22:06:27 <gmaxwell> Davincij15: okay, I see these three transactions they were mined in blocks 150004, 150040, and 150040 respectively.
 928 2011-10-20 22:06:31 tower has joined
 929 2011-10-20 22:06:33 <gmaxwell> None of them have an input in common.
 930 2011-10-20 22:06:41 <gmaxwell> Why do you believe they were a double spend?
 931 2011-10-20 22:08:06 <gjs278> lol namecoins
 932 2011-10-20 22:08:31 <Davincij15> You can see in my transaction list...
 933 2011-10-20 22:08:46 <Davincij15> the transactions are the same up to a point in both computers
 934 2011-10-20 22:08:56 <Davincij15> (I have 2 with the same wallet)
 935 2011-10-20 22:09:06 <Davincij15> Then they go out of sync
 936 2011-10-20 22:09:20 <Davincij15> And one wallet had the money spent the other did notl
 937 2011-10-20 22:09:33 <gjs278> have you actually tried to spend the money from the other wallet yet
 938 2011-10-20 22:09:47 <gmaxwell> Yes, that happens when you put one wallet on multiple computer and their keypools eventually get out of wack.
 939 2011-10-20 22:09:49 <Ycros> I don't see it either
 940 2011-10-20 22:10:00 <gmaxwell> s/computer/computers/
 941 2011-10-20 22:11:33 <cjdelisl1> Also actually double spending is not really possible with the vanilla client, you'd have to hack it up pretty good.
 942 2011-10-20 22:11:33 zhoutong has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 943 2011-10-20 22:11:44 <gmaxwell> cjdelisl1: he's using two clients.
 944 2011-10-20 22:11:50 <gmaxwell> You can try to double spend that way.
 945 2011-10-20 22:12:01 <gmaxwell> But it won't actually work.
 946 2011-10-20 22:12:17 <gmaxwell> And there isn't any evidence here of actual double spending.
 947 2011-10-20 22:12:29 <Davincij15> I will put all tx in her that diverge  starting with computer 1
 948 2011-10-20 22:12:42 <gmaxwell> Davincij15: Diverging isn't interesting.
 949 2011-10-20 22:12:54 <cjdelisl1> I would transfer all of the money on both into another wallet
 950 2011-10-20 22:12:55 zhoutong has joined
 951 2011-10-20 22:13:01 <gmaxwell> Davincij15: How long have you been spending money from both copies of this wallet?
 952 2011-10-20 22:13:09 <gmaxwell> cjdelisl1: I was about to suggest exactly the same thing.
 953 2011-10-20 22:13:15 <Ycros> yeaaaah. What is the correct method for dealing with it?
 954 2011-10-20 22:13:21 <cjdelisl1> it will get things back in sync
 955 2011-10-20 22:13:33 ThomasV has joined
 956 2011-10-20 22:13:38 <Ycros> won't trying to move everything from both potentially break things?
 957 2011-10-20 22:13:50 <gmaxwell> Davincij15: you should not run the same wallet on multiple computers because you will confuse yourself when they eventually go out of sync, which is the expected, necessary, and harmless behavior.
 958 2011-10-20 22:14:26 <gmaxwell> Ycros: you'll double spend and it won't be successful. :)  But what you should do is send all from one to the new wallet.. wait a bit, then send all from the other.
 959 2011-10-20 22:14:33 <gmaxwell> And make sure both are current with the blockchain before you send.
 960 2011-10-20 22:15:00 <Davincij15> well lets see if there is something wrong here or not..
 961 2011-10-20 22:15:09 <cjdelisl1> I think when you pay one, the other will freak out and be like "oh I don't have that much money after all"
 962 2011-10-20 22:15:37 <gmaxwell> cjdelisl1: well, if they've really diverged then that won't quite happen.
 963 2011-10-20 22:16:13 <gmaxwell> cjdelisl1: when A spends... B will see those txn eventually.. and remove those inputs which have been spent. But if B has inputs A doesn't have because the keypools diverged, then B will still have a balance.
 964 2011-10-20 22:16:54 <gmaxwell> cjdelisl1: so to unscrew yourself you need to get current with the block chain, send all funds from one... then let the other get current (so it sees any of the overlapping inputs go away) then send all its funds.
 965 2011-10-20 22:18:28 <cjdelisl1> oh, you I was assuming you'd wait for it to download the block
 966 2011-10-20 22:18:29 <neofutur> -resacan can also help in this event ?
 967 2011-10-20 22:18:34 <neofutur> -rescan
 968 2011-10-20 22:19:05 <Ycros> it'd be nice to have a method to export/import/sync keys
 969 2011-10-20 22:19:12 <neofutur> it happened to me once, and it was fixed after a -rescan
 970 2011-10-20 22:19:29 <nathan7> it's my birth*day*!
 971 2011-10-20 22:19:30 <nathan7> :D
 972 2011-10-20 22:19:38 <diki> congrats
 973 2011-10-20 22:20:36 <Davincij15> one sec putting it all together
 974 2011-10-20 22:20:47 TheZimm has joined
 975 2011-10-20 22:20:56 <gmaxwell> cjdelisl1: if things aren't broken you should see the txn before it gets mined.
 976 2011-10-20 22:21:06 <gmaxwell> neofutur: no.
 977 2011-10-20 22:21:14 <gmaxwell> neofutur: it shouldn't.
 978 2011-10-20 22:21:31 * nathan7 is a big human now
 979 2011-10-20 22:21:40 <cjdelisl1> yeap
 980 2011-10-20 22:22:19 <cjdelisl1> tx everything, wait for a confirmation, tx everything from other box, wait for a confirmation, see what it looks like
 981 2011-10-20 22:22:22 <gmaxwell> Ycros: really you'd want a determinstic wallet if you wanted multiple wallets in-sync otherwise there will always be risk and confusion.
 982 2011-10-20 22:22:29 <gmaxwell> (or some kind of active syncing protocol)
 983 2011-10-20 22:23:21 <Ycros> some form of simple export/sync would solve the problem now, deterministic wallet is a redesign.
 984 2011-10-20 22:23:28 <cjdelisl1> heh I can see people like this getting bitten easily if the rules were changed so miners got to keep doublespends
 985 2011-10-20 22:23:46 <lfm> Davincij15: make sure you wait for at least a couple new blocks bewteen switching locations
 986 2011-10-20 22:24:47 zapnap has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 987 2011-10-20 22:24:48 <Diablo-D3> man
 988 2011-10-20 22:24:54 <Diablo-D3> ron paul has raised over $2m in 24 hours
 989 2011-10-20 22:25:02 <Diablo-D3> the rest of the republican canidates have zero chance
 990 2011-10-20 22:25:06 <OneFixt> \o/
 991 2011-10-20 22:25:13 <neofutur> gmaxwell: i took one wallet offline, and did -rescan on the other and after some hours I had the good balance . . .
 992 2011-10-20 22:25:16 <Diablo-D3> they simply _cant afford it_
 993 2011-10-20 22:25:31 <lfm> Diablo-D3: so you think romney's lead will evaporate?
 994 2011-10-20 22:25:31 <OneFixt> Diablo-D3: we still have to fix the voting machines though or else it's all meaningless
 995 2011-10-20 22:25:37 <gmaxwell> Ycros: a fairly modest redesign of the cwallet code.. it's all isolated. Simple export/sync doesn't really solve the problem.
 996 2011-10-20 22:25:43 <Diablo-D3> lfm: he doesnt have one
 997 2011-10-20 22:25:43 <OneFixt> or... unfix
 998 2011-10-20 22:26:02 <neofutur> Diablo-D3: offtopic, but http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2011/10/ron-paul-media-blackout-confirmed/43747/
 999 2011-10-20 22:26:05 <lfm> Diablo-D3: Seemed he had one yesterday
1000 2011-10-20 22:26:15 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: I think at this point ron paul is so far ahead in the real world that he'll just run with or without the support of his party
1001 2011-10-20 22:26:22 <OneFixt> #bitcoin-ronpaul btw for refernce
1002 2011-10-20 22:26:55 <Diablo-D3> the problem with romney is he cant stop being a fucking moron
1003 2011-10-20 22:27:12 <Diablo-D3> the polling thats been done is utterly useless
1004 2011-10-20 22:27:22 <Diablo-D3> the only thing that matters is cash.
1005 2011-10-20 22:27:44 <Diablo-D3> and romney has around $20m, ron paul has more than that, Im not sure how much
1006 2011-10-20 22:27:54 <lfm> Diablo-D3: since when has being a moron disqualified one for president?
1007 2011-10-20 22:28:00 <Diablo-D3> in july it was 18 vs 13, but ron paul has gotten about $7m since then
1008 2011-10-20 22:28:07 <Diablo-D3> lfm: that isnt it
1009 2011-10-20 22:28:25 <Diablo-D3> him, santorum, and rick perry are all fighting with each other over the same segment of the republican party
1010 2011-10-20 22:28:31 <neofutur> gmaxwell: you re 100 % sure -rescan should not be useful to fix things ?
1011 2011-10-20 22:28:37 <Diablo-D3> and they keep fucking each other during debates
1012 2011-10-20 22:28:52 <lfm> neofutur: it is usefull but not foolproof
1013 2011-10-20 22:29:15 <gmaxwell> neofutur: Seems you've proven it.. but thats surprising, it should have only mattered if you'd been swapping wallets out from under the client.
1014 2011-10-20 22:29:30 <neofutur> ok, worked in my case but i just had one receive transaction not showing one one of the wallets
1015 2011-10-20 22:29:38 <gmaxwell> If it changes things and you haven't been swapping wallets, then that suggests a bug.
1016 2011-10-20 22:29:40 <gjs278> if the republican party runs ron paul, some democrats will vote for him, all republicans will vote for him, he will win
1017 2011-10-20 22:29:49 <Davincij15> OK...
1018 2011-10-20 22:29:50 <Diablo-D3> notice they havent been able to usefully attack cain or bachmann
1019 2011-10-20 22:29:53 <Davincij15>         "category" : "send",
1020 2011-10-20 22:29:53 <Davincij15>         "amount" : -1.27323698,
1021 2011-10-20 22:29:53 <Davincij15>         "fee" : -0.00050000,
1022 2011-10-20 22:29:53 <Davincij15>         "confirmations" : 303,
1023 2011-10-20 22:29:53 <Davincij15>         "txid" : "9dfc633faa11c0407fae468c0d2f56b2fa7fcaf45b1f452740e160163143f0e7",
1024 2011-10-20 22:29:53 Davincij15 has quit (Excess Flood)
1025 2011-10-20 22:29:55 <Diablo-D3> and bachmann has zero support
1026 2011-10-20 22:30:07 Davincij15 has joined
1027 2011-10-20 22:30:18 <Diablo-D3> as I see it, the real poll numbers are closer to cain, paul, rick rontorum, and then bachmann
1028 2011-10-20 22:30:20 <Davincij15> flood
1029 2011-10-20 22:30:22 <Davincij15> :)
1030 2011-10-20 22:30:40 <gjs278> cain = token black man = no chance
1031 2011-10-20 22:30:45 <Diablo-D3> and paul has this huge libertarian and independent following
1032 2011-10-20 22:30:49 <neofutur> gmaxwell: i did not swap wallets afaik, just had the same wallet running on 2 different computers when I received coins
1033 2011-10-20 22:30:50 <Diablo-D3> which destroys any of cain's lead
1034 2011-10-20 22:30:56 <Davincij15> ok lets do dat again
1035 2011-10-20 22:30:58 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: dunno man, hes been polling pretty favorable
1036 2011-10-20 22:31:00 <gjs278> paul will leech liberal votes like none other
1037 2011-10-20 22:31:02 <neofutur> one seen the received coins, the other not
1038 2011-10-20 22:31:02 <Davincij15>         "txid" : "89924ddb846284559de37f4964abcb9ceb18f8e2688d329e6895daf97fc4ddc7",
1039 2011-10-20 22:31:02 <Davincij15>         "amount" : 50.04210000,
1040 2011-10-20 22:31:02 <Davincij15>         "txid" : "9811453912e7595fc19c862598e1e1a9dd83ce84e8cf4edcaad117c2d6245a73",
1041 2011-10-20 22:31:02 <Davincij15>         "amount" : 100.00000000,
1042 2011-10-20 22:31:02 <Davincij15>         "confirmations" : 82,
1043 2011-10-20 22:31:02 <Davincij15>         "txid" : "53e7135b14a2f7dabbe119b668e22fb38eb5c32cc6d4f29dce6827e43687c19f",
1044 2011-10-20 22:31:02 <Davincij15>         "amount" : -3.32013773,
1045 2011-10-20 22:31:03 <Davincij15>         "txid" : "68fd7aa950e9be6c03f95462149204062ede684c8bd1cbfe5e6ad5e7c865fe92",
1046 2011-10-20 22:31:05 <Ycros> blah blah blah blah politics blah blah blah
1047 2011-10-20 22:31:11 <gjs278> that is because republicans dont want to be racist
1048 2011-10-20 22:31:14 <gjs278> so they are trying really hard
1049 2011-10-20 22:31:16 <neofutur> took offline one and rescanned on the other
1050 2011-10-20 22:31:17 <gjs278> to make cain a frontrunner
1051 2011-10-20 22:31:21 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: there is a strong black republican segment
1052 2011-10-20 22:31:23 <Eliel> Davincij15: use pastebin please
1053 2011-10-20 22:31:25 <Davincij15>         "amount" : -46.71535227,
1054 2011-10-20 22:31:25 <Davincij15>         "txid" : "68fd7aa950e9be6c03f95462149204062ede684c8bd1cbfe5e6ad5e7c865fe92",
1055 2011-10-20 22:31:25 <Davincij15>         "amount" : -0.25961552,
1056 2011-10-20 22:31:25 <Davincij15>         "txid" : "f458a7686b20ce527d75ba4b147464086185b6b573cc6a977e6dc301ba40a9e9",
1057 2011-10-20 22:31:25 <Davincij15>         "amount" : -0.01315667,
1058 2011-10-20 22:31:25 <Davincij15>         "txid" : "f458a7686b20ce527d75ba4b147464086185b6b573cc6a977e6dc301ba40a9e9",
1059 2011-10-20 22:31:25 <Davincij15>         "category" : "immature",
1060 2011-10-20 22:31:26 <Ycros> blah blah bleh blah blah politics blah blah bleh blah
1061 2011-10-20 22:31:26 <Davincij15>         "amount" : 50.07950000,
1062 2011-10-20 22:31:26 <Davincij15>         "txid" : "00c2ccad6d1ffff3759a27c99c196242f96fd73aeaa54d098657e1363604f66a",
1063 2011-10-20 22:31:29 <Diablo-D3> which is bizzare since republicans, quote unquote, hate niggers
1064 2011-10-20 22:31:32 <gjs278> yes
1065 2011-10-20 22:31:36 <gjs278> they do in fact hate negroes
1066 2011-10-20 22:31:42 <Davincij15>         "amount" : -1.80310835,
1067 2011-10-20 22:31:42 <Davincij15>         "txid" : "2b240ada9eb0498c8f9f478911852313b12719ddae45770871aa7781dafadf2d",
1068 2011-10-20 22:31:42 <Davincij15>         "amount" : -98.19688165,
1069 2011-10-20 22:31:42 <Davincij15>         "txid" : "2b240ada9eb0498c8f9f478911852313b12719ddae45770871aa7781dafadf2d",
1070 2011-10-20 22:31:42 <Davincij15>         "amount" : -2.27601392,
1071 2011-10-20 22:31:42 <Davincij15>         "txid" : "fc2c54cfe0baa718f335ebf0274d2da0ee629f55f32fbcd95f20084b0a9466e0",
1072 2011-10-20 22:31:42 <Davincij15>         "amount" : -47.80247608,
1073 2011-10-20 22:31:43 <Davincij15>         "txid" : "fc2c54cfe0baa718f335ebf0274d2da0ee629f55f32fbcd95f20084b0a9466e0",
1074 2011-10-20 22:31:43 <Davincij15>         "amount" : -8.74000000,
1075 2011-10-20 22:31:49 <Diablo-D3> why the hell would any black person be a republican
1076 2011-10-20 22:31:50 <Diablo-D3> its nuts
1077 2011-10-20 22:32:07 <gjs278> they enjoy being the black version of "edgy"
1078 2011-10-20 22:32:31 <Diablo-D3> edgy? how about "house negroey"
1079 2011-10-20 22:32:34 <neofutur> Diablo-D3: why not /join #bitcoin-ronpaul or #bitcoin-politics ?
1080 2011-10-20 22:32:42 <Davincij15> when I noticed it was up to tx fc2c54cfe0baa718f335ebf0274d2da0ee629f55f32fbcd95f20084b0a9466e0
1081 2011-10-20 22:32:43 <Diablo-D3> neofutur: because we need less channels not more
1082 2011-10-20 22:32:43 <OneFixt> Diablo-D3: because an actual republican (ron paul) would tread them as equal humans and not people who need a handout
1083 2011-10-20 22:32:48 <neofutur> we re trying to talk of something bitcoin related
1084 2011-10-20 22:32:52 <Ycros> this is a dev channel
1085 2011-10-20 22:32:58 <Diablo-D3> OneFixt: yes, but then you join the libertarian party and support him
1086 2011-10-20 22:33:02 <Ycros> not a politics channel, and certainly not a US politics channel
1087 2011-10-20 22:33:04 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1088 2011-10-20 22:33:04 <Eliel> Davincij15: please use pastebin for the data.
1089 2011-10-20 22:33:05 <Diablo-D3> Ycros: yes, and I predate all of you.
1090 2011-10-20 22:33:07 <OneFixt> Diablo-D3: let's continue in the other channel
1091 2011-10-20 22:33:09 <lfm> Diablo-D3: the rich blacks are conflicted
1092 2011-10-20 22:33:15 <Diablo-D3> rich blacks? where?
1093 2011-10-20 22:33:22 <lfm> cain
1094 2011-10-20 22:33:29 <Diablo-D3> all 4 of them?
1095 2011-10-20 22:33:32 <lfm> ya
1096 2011-10-20 22:33:32 <Eliel> take the politics elsewhere please.
1097 2011-10-20 22:33:36 <neofutur> +1
1098 2011-10-20 22:33:39 <Davincij15> Ok
1099 2011-10-20 22:33:55 <Diablo-D3> Eliel: why do you hate America?
1100 2011-10-20 22:34:08 <Eliel> this channel is not the place for politics.
1101 2011-10-20 22:34:15 <lianj> woa, are these pastebin sites dead
1102 2011-10-20 22:34:17 <gmaxwell> Davincij15: okay, I see a whole bunch of transactions there.
1103 2011-10-20 22:35:06 <Eliel> the main thing I notice of the pasted transactions is that most of them have no confirmations.
1104 2011-10-20 22:35:37 <Davincij15> http://pastebin.com/LLVhSg0E
1105 2011-10-20 22:35:41 <Davincij15> and
1106 2011-10-20 22:35:46 <gjs278> lol
1107 2011-10-20 22:35:52 <gjs278> chris rock has a skit
1108 2011-10-20 22:35:55 <gjs278> about rich blacks
1109 2011-10-20 22:36:08 <gjs278> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53hXBg-U-ac
1110 2011-10-20 22:36:26 <neofutur> (00:20) < Diablo-D3> neofutur: because we need less channels not more
1111 2011-10-20 22:36:37 <neofutur> we dont need less channels, just need more ops to kick you :p
1112 2011-10-20 22:36:44 <Davincij15> http://pastebin.com/9NkrCMTe
1113 2011-10-20 22:37:01 <Davincij15> But I think I see the problem
1114 2011-10-20 22:37:49 <Diablo-D3> neofutur: lol, ops kicking me
1115 2011-10-20 22:37:51 <Diablo-D3> lololol
1116 2011-10-20 22:37:56 <Davincij15> the transactions where split up into many but with the same tx IDs that's why I could not find the transfer amounts in my records
1117 2011-10-20 22:38:03 <Diablo-D3> yes, lets see ops kick me when I was here long before they were
1118 2011-10-20 22:38:18 <neofutur> also s/america/USA/ please
1119 2011-10-20 22:38:34 <cjdelisl1> haha you're canadian?
1120 2011-10-20 22:38:39 <gmaxwell> Davincij15: yes, send many txn look like multiple txn, but they are really a single txn.
1121 2011-10-20 22:38:52 gjs278 is now known as gjs278-ronaldfuc
1122 2011-10-20 22:38:56 <neofutur> living is south america
1123 2011-10-20 22:39:03 <Davincij15> I think that's what messed me up
1124 2011-10-20 22:39:18 gjs278-ronaldfuc is now known as ronaldfuKKingpau
1125 2011-10-20 22:39:23 <cjdelisl1> oh I see, and here I was thinking only canadians beat the "America is not USA" dead horse
1126 2011-10-20 22:39:23 <Davincij15> but still something is not right
1127 2011-10-20 22:39:25 ronaldfuKKingpau is now known as ronaldfuKingpaul
1128 2011-10-20 22:39:27 noagendamarket has joined
1129 2011-10-20 22:41:22 <Davincij15> for example:
1130 2011-10-20 22:41:27 <Davincij15>         "amount" : -2.27601392,
1131 2011-10-20 22:41:27 <Davincij15>         "txid" : "fc2c54cfe0baa718f335ebf0274d2da0ee629f55f32fbcd95f20084b0a9466e0",
1132 2011-10-20 22:41:27 <Davincij15>         "amount" : -47.80247608,
1133 2011-10-20 22:41:27 <Davincij15>         "txid" : "fc2c54cfe0baa718f335ebf0274d2da0ee629f55f32fbcd95f20084b0a9466e0",
1134 2011-10-20 22:41:40 <Davincij15> those two transactions have the same id
1135 2011-10-20 22:42:03 <Davincij15> but my records show only the first one as occuring.
1136 2011-10-20 22:42:06 <lfm> they are one txn then
1137 2011-10-20 22:42:37 <lfm> txn can have multiple inputs and multiple outputs
1138 2011-10-20 22:42:43 <Ycros> part of that is change
1139 2011-10-20 22:43:33 <neofutur> cjdelisl1: because there are more canadians speaking english so you can hear them ;) but south america is also america ;)
1140 2011-10-20 22:44:25 <cjdelisl1> Also canadians are right up the road so I hear them more
1141 2011-10-20 22:44:44 <gmaxwell> Davincij15: what is happening there is that you see the change.
1142 2011-10-20 22:45:29 <Davincij15> gmaxwell: I don't know what you mean the change?
1143 2011-10-20 22:45:34 <gmaxwell> Davincij15: so wallet A sent 2.27601392 BTC and got 47.80247608 btc in change.  wallet B didn't know about the change address but saw the txn and though it was just another payment location.
1144 2011-10-20 22:46:10 <lfm> if you receive 10 btc then spend 2, you get chenage of 8
1145 2011-10-20 22:46:46 erus` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1146 2011-10-20 22:46:59 <gmaxwell> Davincij15: The bitcoin network doesn't maintain/track balances. You can think of the the transactions themselves as "coins"
1147 2011-10-20 22:47:11 BTCTrader has joined
1148 2011-10-20 22:47:12 <Davincij15> OH I see
1149 2011-10-20 22:47:18 <gmaxwell> Davincij15: when you send bitcoin your client takes some of the coins you've previously recieved and bundles them up into a new txn.
1150 2011-10-20 22:47:33 <gmaxwell> If the sum of those inputs is greater than what you wanted to send, you need to get change back.
1151 2011-10-20 22:47:42 BTCTrader is now known as Guest6698
1152 2011-10-20 22:47:43 <gmaxwell> For privacy reasons the client makes up a NEW address to get the change.
1153 2011-10-20 22:47:51 <lfm> or takes a large txn as input and splits it up for small txn
1154 2011-10-20 22:48:07 <Davincij15> I see now.
1155 2011-10-20 22:48:14 <gmaxwell> Because your wallets have been seperate for a while they've diverged and don't know about each others change addresses.
1156 2011-10-20 22:48:48 <gmaxwell> The change is _normally_ hidden so that it doesn't confuse you. But because your other wallet doesn't know about it, its showing you, and now we have the resulting confusion.
1157 2011-10-20 22:49:21 <Davincij15> It's all clear now and I though someone hacked in and stole the 47 btc!
1158 2011-10-20 22:49:58 <Davincij15> it was the change left over when the other wallet sent the 2.27
1159 2011-10-20 22:50:06 <gmaxwell> Right.
1160 2011-10-20 22:50:13 ThomasV has joined
1161 2011-10-20 22:50:16 <gmaxwell> Thats why they have the same txn ID.
1162 2011-10-20 22:50:17 <Davincij15> it sent it back and thats why it had the right balance and the others did not
1163 2011-10-20 22:50:43 <gmaxwell> https://blockexplorer.com/tx/fc2c54cfe0baa718f335ebf0274d2da0ee629f55f32fbcd95f20084b0a9466e0 < is the txn in block explorer.
1164 2011-10-20 22:50:56 <gmaxwell> Not only did you not lose that 47btc... but you've since used it in other transactions.
1165 2011-10-20 22:51:47 <Davincij15> Yeah I transfered out he BTC when I saw it in the wellet and thought it was wrong
1166 2011-10-20 22:52:12 <lfm> if you can transfer it then you have it
1167 2011-10-20 22:52:17 <Davincij15> That's why I thought I dubble spent
1168 2011-10-20 22:52:25 <Davincij15> double spent
1169 2011-10-20 22:52:35 <Davincij15> ok I get it now
1170 2011-10-20 22:52:37 <lfm> we see why you were confused
1171 2011-10-20 22:52:41 <Davincij15> sorry for all the panic
1172 2011-10-20 22:53:35 <gmaxwell> No problem.
1173 2011-10-20 22:54:06 <gmaxwell> Besides, we all were busily becoming rich from the bitcoin crash you just caused. ;)
1174 2011-10-20 22:54:30 <Davincij15> lol
1175 2011-10-20 22:55:18 wolfspraul has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1176 2011-10-20 22:56:36 <Davincij15> I was thinking of panic selling my 2000 BTC but good thing neofutur told me to ask you guys.
1177 2011-10-20 22:56:43 <Davincij15> glad I did.
1178 2011-10-20 22:57:28 <lfm> Davincij15: we don't know any more than anyone else about future prices really
1179 2011-10-20 22:58:10 <Davincij15> well back to work on nmcbit.com need to undo and the damage I did because miss read the data.
1180 2011-10-20 23:00:39 <neofutur> and because using the same wallet on more than one computer
1181 2011-10-20 23:00:48 <neofutur> the urgent thing you have to fix ;)
1182 2011-10-20 23:01:15 * neofutur is using nmcbit.com , good pool
1183 2011-10-20 23:01:33 <neofutur> but you need to thind a better solution than using the same wallet on more than one server
1184 2011-10-20 23:01:36 <gmaxwell> neofutur: well, other than causing confusion it doesn't create any danger to have desynced wallets on multiple computers.
1185 2011-10-20 23:02:12 <neofutur> but no easy way to resync them
1186 2011-10-20 23:02:39 <neofutur> if you tell me -rescan is not full proof , you ll reach problems when you need to send from computer 1 when balance is on computer 2 ?
1187 2011-10-20 23:02:56 <neofutur> ( and even -rescan takes hours )
1188 2011-10-20 23:03:12 <gmaxwell> rescan has nothing to do with this case.
1189 2011-10-20 23:03:21 <gmaxwell> Here the wallets actually have different keys in them.
1190 2011-10-20 23:03:54 AnnihilaT is now known as AnniGONE
1191 2011-10-20 23:03:58 <gmaxwell> If they continue long enough and no one is actively sending funds to the old keys (which they won't because its used for mining) then it will actually become two seperate wallets on its own in another time.
1192 2011-10-20 23:04:08 <gmaxwell> With the balance sort of randomly split between them.
1193 2011-10-20 23:04:19 <gmaxwell> s/another/enough/
1194 2011-10-20 23:09:21 Beremat has joined
1195 2011-10-20 23:10:01 <neofutur> ok
1196 2011-10-20 23:11:36 AnniGONE has left ()
1197 2011-10-20 23:16:08 <Davincij15> Hey can there be duplicate tx numbers for blocks found?
1198 2011-10-20 23:16:41 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: were you here earlier when I updated the pool list?
1199 2011-10-20 23:17:09 <gmaxwell> Davincij15: no ... oh boy, did you manage to reuse a coinbase?
1200 2011-10-20 23:17:19 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: theres a namecoin pool now in the list =P
1201 2011-10-20 23:18:04 <Davincij15> I change the wallet and found a block but I can insert it into DB because it says its a duplicate Tx
1202 2011-10-20 23:18:48 <gmaxwell> Davincij15: if both copies of the wallet had the same key in it then you'd see the block in both places.
1203 2011-10-20 23:18:59 <gmaxwell> but its not a duplicate, its just the same block.
1204 2011-10-20 23:19:08 <Diablo-D3> and now I think its back out of the list
1205 2011-10-20 23:19:24 <Davincij15> Ok maybe I screwed it all up I will check.
1206 2011-10-20 23:19:47 <Diablo-D3> oh wait, Davincij15 owns that pool
1207 2011-10-20 23:21:13 <Davincij15> Yeah - I did ok thanks need to stop using the same wallet for mining and payouts.
1208 2011-10-20 23:27:07 TheZimm has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
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1215 2011-10-20 23:36:53 <Diablo-D3> Davincij15: you're back out again, btw
1216 2011-10-20 23:40:37 clr_ has joined
1217 2011-10-20 23:42:08 <Diablo-D3> its now deepbit, btc guild, slush, ars, bitcoin.lc, bitclockers, abcpool, mt red, btcmine, emc
1218 2011-10-20 23:44:17 <Davincij15> Ok cool I di not know I was in the list.
1219 2011-10-20 23:44:19 <Davincij15> lol
1220 2011-10-20 23:44:46 <[Tycho]> Top10 list ?
1221 2011-10-20 23:44:59 <Diablo-D3> Davincij15: dont you subscribe to your own thread?
1222 2011-10-20 23:45:08 <Davincij15> yes
1223 2011-10-20 23:45:22 <Davincij15> I say but i am busy trying to fix the site
1224 2011-10-20 23:45:25 <Diablo-D3> well I put a message on it
1225 2011-10-20 23:46:11 <Davincij15> so many problems need speed up payouts, worker shares are not being updated fast enough etc.
1226 2011-10-20 23:46:30 <Diablo-D3> heh
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