1 2011-10-25 00:00:44 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: heh, luke never fixed the bug in his pool
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   3 2011-10-25 00:03:08 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: what bug is this?
   4 2011-10-25 00:03:22 <Diablo-D3> high rejects
   5 2011-10-25 00:03:31 <Diablo-D3> about half a percent
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   7 2011-10-25 00:04:29 <gmaxwell> are there any major pools running with lower reject rates than that?  Eclipse has .2% but their luck has been fairly poor, which suggests to me that they're not rejecting enough.
   8 2011-10-25 00:05:22 <Diablo-D3> of course, I got really low on btcguild
   9 2011-10-25 00:05:38 <gmaxwell> Yes, and BTC guild had almost continual 'bad luck'
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  11 2011-10-25 00:05:58 * Diablo-D3 shrugs.
  12 2011-10-25 00:06:10 <gmaxwell> I really think they were just accepting shares too old to be useful in order to win the low reject rate war (though perhaps not intentionally but by happy accident)
  13 2011-10-25 00:06:38 <neofutur> I always have lower rejects on small pools, and imho its better to support small pools
  14 2011-10-25 00:06:40 <Diablo-D3> I dunno, I got paid more with btcguild than I did with eligius
  15 2011-10-25 00:06:54 * neofutur recommends nmcbit for merged mining and good luck, low stales
  16 2011-10-25 00:06:58 <gmaxwell> It's even more important for (mumble)PPS payout, since if the over acceptance reduces the pools luck it will be really obvious to all users.
  17 2011-10-25 00:07:04 <Diablo-D3> neofutur: nmcbit is fail, has fee
  18 2011-10-25 00:07:19 <gmaxwell> yea.. And whats your stale rate there?
  19 2011-10-25 00:07:21 <neofutur> i still earn more there, even with withdraw fee
  20 2011-10-25 00:07:42 <neofutur> much more that what I earned on btcguild or eligius
  21 2011-10-25 00:07:58 * gmaxwell looks at the ribbon on his wrist and remembers to not argue with people who don't understand statistics.
  22 2011-10-25 00:07:59 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: I made almost 4btc with btcguild, and I havent made even 2 on eligius and I mined twice as long on eligius
  23 2011-10-25 00:08:00 <neofutur> 0% stale for mearly 1 week
  24 2011-10-25 00:08:15 <Diablo-D3> neofutur: bullshit.
  25 2011-10-25 00:08:20 <Diablo-D3> less than 1 is not 0
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  28 2011-10-25 00:09:08 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: on a 10k share test, I got 0.12% on btcguild
  29 2011-10-25 00:09:18 <gmaxwell> 0% means they're just not rejecting, which will then materalize in lower pool luck. Worse, your healthy miners will be subsidizing broken miners that are habitually stale and thus not helping the pool.
  30 2011-10-25 00:09:48 <neofutur> in the stats i seen people with rejects
  31 2011-10-25 00:10:12 <neofutur> http://www.nmcbit.com/statistics
  32 2011-10-25 00:10:20 <neofutur> but I had none with my cpu workers
  33 2011-10-25 00:10:25 <gmaxwell> I guess if you have low enough hash rate you may not observe any stales if they're only .5% or so.
  34 2011-10-25 00:10:50 <neofutur> but the pool seems more or less down right now :p
  35 2011-10-25 00:10:55 <gmaxwell> well then!
  36 2011-10-25 00:10:58 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: I havent done a 10k test on eligius yet, but it already seems to be too high
  37 2011-10-25 00:11:24 <neofutur> yup i have low hashrate, i m a small player just using idle CPU on many servers
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  39 2011-10-25 00:12:00 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: my stale rate is .5% there considering my rtt to the pool don't think thats unreasonable at all. And as I mentioned, it's important to reject hashes which wouldn't become successful solutions if they were full difficulty.
  40 2011-10-25 00:12:26 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: yes but you're ignoring a very important part
  41 2011-10-25 00:12:27 <gmaxwell> (otherwise, the SMPPS balance will be fuxored— perpetually in the hole)
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  43 2011-10-25 00:13:49 <Diablo-D3> btcguild paid me twice as much in half the time.
  44 2011-10-25 00:13:50 <gmaxwell> So, you mined on a window when it was being lucky. Good for you. When I mined on it it was about 20% lower than expected. Some people were accusing them of stealing.
  45 2011-10-25 00:13:50 <Diablo-D3> a window?
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  48 2011-10-25 00:13:50 <Diablo-D3> what, a month long window?
  49 2011-10-25 00:13:56 <gmaxwell> It's easy to lose 1% level differences in the normal variance.
  50 2011-10-25 00:14:16 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: yes— hell, they removed the luck indicator from the site because it was so negative for so long.
  51 2011-10-25 00:14:29 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but THAT much of an increase?
  52 2011-10-25 00:14:34 <Diablo-D3> thats like 4x more btc.
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  55 2011-10-25 00:15:51 <gmaxwell> The eligius payouts are PPS. If you made more than that anywhere, except when the pool is in debt (which eligus hasn't been to any great extent except right when it switched to smpps), then its luck.
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  60 2011-10-25 00:22:04 <da2ce7> isnt' pps the only completely fair way to run a pool?
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  62 2011-10-25 00:24:40 <gmaxwell> No.
  63 2011-10-25 00:25:06 <gmaxwell> The PPLNS modes with reasonable constants are also "fair".
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  65 2011-10-25 00:25:27 <Diablo-D3> hrm.
  66 2011-10-25 00:25:40 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: so how can I tell merged mining is functioning in dm?
  67 2011-10-25 00:26:24 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: you can't— its existance is only made clear by the note in the coinbase txn.
  68 2011-10-25 00:27:30 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: so how can I tell if its not doing it right?
  69 2011-10-25 00:28:44 <gmaxwell> http://blockchain.info/tx-index/11510907/d45346e9c29d4622ab5320e64696bf8437660af1b78c0c310b53201f999a5fd0 < see you can see this MM= in this eligius solved block.
  70 2011-10-25 00:30:15 <gmaxwell> it's really the same thing with mining in general: you can tell you're submitting shares, but you can't tell if the pool is doing anything with them. Ideally the pool stats will indicate if things are healthy, but luke doesn't have automated stats for nmc yet—
  71 2011-10-25 00:30:42 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: well, arent I given a nmc work to grind?
  72 2011-10-25 00:30:55 <gmaxwell> partially because of his amnesty window thing — users that don't want the NMC will have their NMC distributed among the people who do... but luke decided to give people some time to sign up, so it's not automated yet.
  73 2011-10-25 00:31:08 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: Nope.
  74 2011-10-25 00:31:17 <gmaxwell> You're giving a header to grind.
  75 2011-10-25 00:31:24 <gmaxwell> It's both nmc and btc work at once.
  76 2011-10-25 00:31:50 <gmaxwell> http://dot-bit.org/Merged_Mining#Tell_me_how_it_works_in_easy_words.21  < this explains it best.
  77 2011-10-25 00:33:08 <gmaxwell> one awesome consequence is that pools that don't disclose their block identities could be merged mining without telling their users and keeping the nmc. :)
  78 2011-10-25 00:33:20 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: yeah but the nmc diff is much lower
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  80 2011-10-25 00:34:26 <gmaxwell> yes. And? the share diff is much lower, and pools still credit you for those!
  81 2011-10-25 00:34:38 <Diablo-D3> hrm, right, forgot about that
  82 2011-10-25 00:35:11 <freewil> can anyone tell me what the `from` param does for listtransactions exactly? i thought i had it figured out until i realized transactions are repeated as you increase the `from` value as their confirmation count increases
  83 2011-10-25 00:35:51 <gmaxwell> A result you return is at least a share.. it might be a nmc solution but not a btc solution.. or (if btc diff becomes lower) it might be a btc solution and not an NMC solution. Or it could be both.
  84 2011-10-25 00:36:28 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: but wait a second
  85 2011-10-25 00:36:28 <Diablo-D3> how can it ever be a nmc solution?
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  88 2011-10-25 00:37:39 <gmaxwell> freewil: it sets the block height to get txns from.
  89 2011-10-25 00:37:49 <gmaxwell> freewil: (I thought!)
  90 2011-10-25 00:37:58 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: the namecoin header would have to be identical
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  92 2011-10-25 00:38:41 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: no, because namecoin uses bitcoin headers for validity now but ignores the bitcoin specific stuff.
  93 2011-10-25 00:38:59 <Diablo-D3> but... the... hash would still be different...?
  94 2011-10-25 00:39:05 <gmaxwell> Nope.
  95 2011-10-25 00:39:22 <Diablo-D3> namecoin has transactions and a nonce
  96 2011-10-25 00:39:36 <Diablo-D3> and a previous block hash sig
  97 2011-10-25 00:39:38 <gmaxwell> Yep.
  98 2011-10-25 00:39:38 <Diablo-D3> and other stuff that cant be done
  99 2011-10-25 00:39:41 <gmaxwell> Nope.
 100 2011-10-25 00:39:43 <Diablo-D3> so I dont get how it can be idnetical
 101 2011-10-25 00:39:43 <gmaxwell> :)
 102 2011-10-25 00:39:47 <gmaxwell> I need a whiteboard.
 103 2011-10-25 00:39:57 <Diablo-D3> yes you do
 104 2011-10-25 00:40:05 <gmaxwell> Because the namecoin data is commited to by a hash added to the coinbase txn.
 105 2011-10-25 00:40:23 <Diablo-D3> I love how homosexual that wiki is btw
 106 2011-10-25 00:40:30 <gmaxwell> so I give you a bitcoin header, and you can see that it meets the difficulty you expect.
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 108 2011-10-25 00:40:34 <Diablo-D3> it lists phoenix
 109 2011-10-25 00:40:40 <Diablo-D3> but not diablominer
 110 2011-10-25 00:40:51 <Diablo-D3> I wonder if I should just purge phoenix from the forums and end their trolling.
 111 2011-10-25 00:40:56 <gmaxwell> Then I also give you the coinbase txn and the fragement that connects it to the bitcoin header, so you can see the coinbase is commited.
 112 2011-10-25 00:41:13 <gmaxwell> Then the coinbase contains the root of another hash tree that contains the hash of the real namecoin header.
 113 2011-10-25 00:41:35 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: ...
 114 2011-10-25 00:41:43 <Diablo-D3> that doesnt make any sense
 115 2011-10-25 00:42:00 <gmaxwell> **sigh**
 116 2011-10-25 00:42:13 <Diablo-D3> you give namecoind a... bitcoin header?
 117 2011-10-25 00:42:31 <diki> no, a candy bar
 118 2011-10-25 00:43:03 <gmaxwell> yes, which it ignores everything in except the merkle root.
 119 2011-10-25 00:43:27 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: but it validates it according to existing hash rules?
 120 2011-10-25 00:43:51 <gmaxwell> It doesn't validate according to bitcoin rules at all.
 121 2011-10-25 00:44:03 <Diablo-D3> then how does namecoind I sent it a valid hash?
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 124 2011-10-25 00:45:35 <gmaxwell> Okay.   Forget namecoin for a minute.  Pertend we changed bitcoin so that the header was newheader=[44 bytes of garbage][hash of real header][4 byte nonce]
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 126 2011-10-25 00:46:11 <gmaxwell> And then validation worked by making sure newheader had a high enough difficulty then applying the normal rules to [hash of real header] (without the difficulty check there).
 127 2011-10-25 00:46:21 <gmaxwell> Do you see how that, while stupid, would work just fine?
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 131 2011-10-25 00:47:21 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: yeah possibly.
 132 2011-10-25 00:47:34 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: so what stops me from fucking the chain over?
 133 2011-10-25 00:47:39 ej__ has joined
 134 2011-10-25 00:47:40 <gmaxwell> Merged mining made almost exactly that change to namecoin. The only difference instead of [hash of real header]  it's [hash of a hash of more garbage] and there was another bit of garbage (the bitcoin coinbase) that contains the hash of the real namecoin header.
 135 2011-10-25 00:47:52 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: Tell me how you'd fuck it over?
 136 2011-10-25 00:48:08 <Diablo-D3> record every interesting sha256
 137 2011-10-25 00:48:18 <Diablo-D3> and then just throw it at it
 138 2011-10-25 00:49:13 <gmaxwell> Because it would still validate the rules— it would just do an extra hash operation in order to connect the real header with the garbage.
 139 2011-10-25 00:49:31 <gmaxwell> it already has to do one to see if the difficulty of the garbage was enough to make it interesting.
 140 2011-10-25 00:49:52 <gmaxwell> So doing a second one in order to connect the header that gets rules applied isn't really a big additional burden.
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 143 2011-10-25 00:50:07 <Diablo-D3> what in the header ISNT garbage?
 144 2011-10-25 00:50:20 <gmaxwell> The hash of the real header.
 145 2011-10-25 00:50:35 <Diablo-D3> so I could, essentially, produce a nmc miner
 146 2011-10-25 00:50:41 <Diablo-D3> that would work a shitload faster
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 151 2011-10-25 00:51:12 <gmaxwell> No. But damn I wish I understood why you thought that.
 152 2011-10-25 00:51:35 <Diablo-D3> why, you want free nmc too? =P
 153 2011-10-25 00:52:19 <gmaxwell> No, because I'd have some idea how I'm failing to explain this to you.  You could make an nmc miner that had access to a lot of extra nonce space, I guess.. at the expense of not being able to get any bitcoins for its solutions.
 154 2011-10-25 00:52:40 <gmaxwell> But having a bunch of extra nonce space doesn't speed much of anything up.
 155 2011-10-25 00:52:51 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but I think it'd be searching a much wider part of the sha256 hashspace if the whole thing was just a giant nonce
 156 2011-10-25 00:52:54 <Diablo-D3> which means potentially more valids
 157 2011-10-25 00:53:30 ej__ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 158 2011-10-25 00:53:38 <gmaxwell> Nah, solution density isn't constant. Searching 'more' of the space doesn't help, moreover the space is effectively infinite so you can't meaningfully search more of it regardless.
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 161 2011-10-25 00:55:09 <gmaxwell> e.g. 32 bytes of the 80 byte header.. say you search 256^48-1 of the rest and have not found a solution. When you search the last possible spot, there is no guarentee to be a solution. In fact. even if the entire thing was nonce there would be no guarenteed solution.
 162 2011-10-25 00:55:33 <gmaxwell> There may, in fact, be no input (or at least no input of the bitcoin header size) that makes sha256x2 output all zeros, for example.
 163 2011-10-25 00:56:13 <Diablo-D3> hrm.
 164 2011-10-25 00:56:20 <gmaxwell> So the only thing you could really save yourself is some extranonce updating.. which is technically savings but ... saving a couple extra hash operations every four billion hardly counts.
 165 2011-10-25 00:57:34 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: approximately how many interesting hashes are there?
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 167 2011-10-25 00:59:14 <gmaxwell> Depends on the difficulty. A very very very very great many. e.g. if SHA-256 is really random then there should be ~26959946667150639794667015087019630673637144422540572481103610249216 difficulty 1 interesting hashes.
 168 2011-10-25 00:59:38 <gmaxwell> (and difficulty 1m there is 1/1000000th that, which is still an impossibly large number)
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 172 2011-10-25 01:00:35 * gmaxwell dinner &
 173 2011-10-25 01:00:45 <Diablo-D3> hrrrm
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 200 2011-10-25 01:31:00 <AAA_awright> Is there any library to specifically handle, what is it called, the Nakamotoian block chain, that Bitcoin-block-chain derivatives (Bitcoin, namecoin, testnet) could share?
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 225 2011-10-25 02:11:55 <lfm> aaa_awright none I know of
 226 2011-10-25 02:12:43 <AAA_awright> I would think that should be a natural progression, towards libblockchain
 227 2011-10-25 02:12:50 <AAA_awright> (or whatever
 228 2011-10-25 02:12:51 <AAA_awright> )
 229 2011-10-25 02:13:33 <gmaxwell> AAA_awright: the amount of commonality is pretty small though.. I guess only enough to handle the indirection needed for merged mining is really common.
 230 2011-10-25 02:13:57 <AAA_awright> Really? There's all that networking code
 231 2011-10-25 02:14:14 <gmaxwell> That has nothing to do with the blockchain though.
 232 2011-10-25 02:14:58 <gmaxwell> You could participate in the bitcoin blockchain without ever touching the p2p protocol. And I expect that it will be completely replaced in the not very distant future, probably incrementally but several times over. :)
 233 2011-10-25 02:15:00 <Diablo-D3> lets just rename it libdongs then
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 239 2011-10-25 02:22:28 <AAA_awright> gmaxwell: Well then a better name than libblockchain, or maybe a library on top of it since modularity is a Good Thing
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 278 2011-10-25 03:15:21 <Siegfried> Hi, is anybody online?
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 334 2011-10-25 05:21:29 <neofutur> anyone here familiar with bitcoind code and willing to develop a patch ( paid job in btc ot mtgusd )
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 357 2011-10-25 06:04:31 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * aad061a62be7 r166 / (17 files in 7 dirs):
 358 2011-10-25 06:04:31 <CIA-101> poolserverj: - rebuild block tracker to handle multiple chains with different block numbers.
 359 2011-10-25 06:04:31 <CIA-101> poolserverj: - adjust longpolling to account for additional chains. LP now fires when any
 360 2011-10-25 06:04:31 <CIA-101> poolserverj: chain finds a new block but waits until a getblocknumber has come back from each
 361 2011-10-25 06:04:31 <CIA-101> poolserverj: chain first to try and prevent double LPs. If a daemon is down it will timeout
 362 2011-10-25 06:04:32 <CIA-101> poolserverj: and fire the longpoll anyway after 1 second.
 363 2011-10-25 06:04:33 <CIA-101> poolserverj: - allow subtractive traceTargets. i.e. 'traceTargets=all,-merged' will show all traceTargets except 'merged'
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 404 2011-10-25 07:24:40 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * 7c8c3072b91c r167 / (4 files in 3 dirs): - fixes for block sync cases where sync tracking loses the plot and never fires block change.
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 460 2011-10-25 08:51:26 <mrb_> I hate slideshare.net - click next to see the next page of a pdf and nothing happens. reload the page, this time I can go to page 2 or 3, then I can't advance anymore.
 461 2011-10-25 08:51:30 <mrb_> http://www.slideshare.net/dakami/bitcoin-8776098
 462 2011-10-25 08:51:41 <mrb_> anyone has a copy of the "some thoughts on bitcoin" kaminsky pdf?
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 464 2011-10-25 08:52:47 <edcba> ask him maybe
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 469 2011-10-25 09:03:52 <T_X> I'm having this 'error: too many arguments to function ‘UPNPDev* upnpDiscover()' when trying to build bitcoin/master on a current debian unstable. ok, I could deactivate the miniupnp part in bitcoin according to the readme. but
 470 2011-10-25 09:04:12 <T_X> how should such library version incompatibilties usually be handled?
 471 2011-10-25 09:05:17 <T_X> (debian unstable has libminiupnpc-dev v1.5)
 472 2011-10-25 09:06:23 <T_X> should the bitcion developers make bitcoin compatible with both versions 1.5 and 1.6? or should the debian libminiupnpc-dev package maintainer offer both, a version 1.5 and 1.6 package?
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 477 2011-10-25 09:12:53 <T_X> and I'm having some trouble the bitcoin-qt version
 478 2011-10-25 09:13:31 <T_X> when I'm hitting a 'qmake' in src/ (as described in readme-qt.rst), then I'm just getting the Usage screen of qmake
 479 2011-10-25 09:15:23 <T_X> ah, lol, 'qmake' from the top dir
 480 2011-10-25 09:15:25 <T_X> that works better
 481 2011-10-25 09:16:54 <ThomasV> what are the 4 bytes after each tx input ? are they always equal to "ffffff" ?
 482 2011-10-25 09:19:11 <T_X> hmm, 'qmake "USE_UPNP="' seems to ignore the upnp option
 483 2011-10-25 09:20:41 <terrytibbs> T_X: slap it in the makefile instead
 484 2011-10-25 09:21:21 <T_X> terrytibbs: I found a better way, reading the readme-qt.rst 10 times
 485 2011-10-25 09:21:36 <T_X> qmake uses USE_UPNP=-, not USE_UPNP=!
 486 2011-10-25 09:21:43 <T_X> ...
 487 2011-10-25 09:23:27 * T_X votes for removign USE_UPNP=0, and making 'USE_UPNP='/'USE_UPNP=-' the default behaviour, until it's not ensured to build with that on most, common linux distros
 488 2011-10-25 09:23:32 <T_X> *removing
 489 2011-10-25 09:25:17 <T_X> s/until it's not/until it's/
 490 2011-10-25 09:26:29 <T_X> urgh
 491 2011-10-25 09:26:30 <T_X> ./bitcoin-qt                                                                                                 <─(Tue,Oct25)─┘
 492 2011-10-25 09:26:34 <T_X> zsh: segmentation fault  ./bitcoin-qt
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 496 2011-10-25 09:39:18 <T_X> wow, awesome, and bitcoin-qt has a millionaire feature :) - μBTC!
 497 2011-10-25 09:39:34 <T_X> (somehow when starting it with gdb, then it doesn't crash...)
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 499 2011-10-25 09:42:32 <T_X> the mouse over for the "Recent Transactions" in "Overview" seems to be broke too
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 501 2011-10-25 09:42:54 <T_X> looks like random pixels stuff from some video buffers
 502 2011-10-25 09:45:56 <T_X> "Balance:" in "Send Coins" does not change it's unit when applying it in the settings - I'm no back to "BTC", however the Balance there still shows it in "μBTC"
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 512 2011-10-25 09:58:06 <T_X> hmm, stupid race conditions... ./bitcoin-qt crashes all the time on start up, however running it with gdb or valgrind does not...
 513 2011-10-25 10:03:19 <ThomasV> heisenbug ?
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 515 2011-10-25 10:11:53 <T_X> ThomasV: yep, looks like :)
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 518 2011-10-25 10:16:42 <T_X> it crashed about two or three messages after the "loading block index", I think. but can't say for sure, it was too quick
 519 2011-10-25 10:17:07 <T_X> I guess then some classic couts would be next, I guess
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 538 2011-10-25 11:23:05 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * d2a36b35cff6 r168 / (5 files in 5 dirs): - added support for SCrypt as a proof of work hashing algorithm.
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 540 2011-10-25 11:23:17 <anddam> hello
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 544 2011-10-25 11:33:11 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: hi, you there?
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 585 2011-10-25 13:02:12 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Chris Moore master * r6c33ec4 / doc/readme-qt.rst : Warn about the qt-at-spi bug in Ubuntu 11.10. - http://git.io/1FFYag
 586 2011-10-25 13:02:12 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r20601f3 / doc/readme-qt.rst :
 587 2011-10-25 13:02:12 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Merge pull request #592 from dooglus/qt-at-spi-bug
 588 2011-10-25 13:02:12 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Warn about the qt-at-spi bug in Ubuntu 11.10. - http://git.io/tge8DA
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 606 2011-10-25 13:23:29 <CIA-101> libbitcoin: genjix * ra4c72e202507 / (7 files in 4 dirs): Deleted extraneous code. About to be replaced by better code.
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 669 2011-10-25 15:12:14 <ryannathansSLEEP> i came blood
 670 2011-10-25 15:12:34 <MagicalTux> ryannathansSLEEP: go to the hospital
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 672 2011-10-25 15:13:29 <ryannathansSLEEP> naww
 673 2011-10-25 15:13:36 * ryannathansSLEEP runs to hospital 
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 694 2011-10-25 15:53:49 <ThomasV> gavinandresen: you have a minute to help me?
 695 2011-10-25 15:54:04 <gavinandresen> with what?
 696 2011-10-25 15:54:20 <ThomasV> I am trying to create a tx, but it does not work
 697 2011-10-25 15:54:22 <gavinandresen> (busy trying to get a 0.5rc2 built...)
 698 2011-10-25 15:55:05 <terrytibbs> When was the switch from rpc to bitcoinrpc made?!
 699 2011-10-25 15:55:17 <copumpkin> casascius: dude, not cool
 700 2011-10-25 15:55:18 <ThomasV> perhaps you are expert enough to parse it with your eyes
 701 2011-10-25 15:55:33 <gavinandresen> ThomasV: not even close, sorry don't have time to debug hex txns....
 702 2011-10-25 15:55:44 <ThomasV> ok:-)
 703 2011-10-25 15:56:12 <gavinandresen> terrytibbs: 0.5 release the rename happened... some incompatibility with some qt thing
 704 2011-10-25 15:56:28 <ThomasV> gavinandresen: is there a debug tool that could help me ?
 705 2011-10-25 15:57:12 <terrytibbs> Gah. Makes my biznatch a whole lot more difficult. Guess I'll have to adapt
 706 2011-10-25 15:57:16 larsivi has joined
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 708 2011-10-25 15:58:07 <gavinandresen> ThomasV: what are you trying to do?
 709 2011-10-25 15:58:14 gjs278 has joined
 710 2011-10-25 15:58:25 <ThomasV> I'd like to know why it is not accepted by the network
 711 2011-10-25 16:00:30 <gavinandresen> ... and you created it how?
 712 2011-10-25 16:00:36 ej__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 713 2011-10-25 16:00:40 <ThomasV> myself, with a python script
 714 2011-10-25 16:00:54 <ThomasV> I am trying to write a thin client
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 716 2011-10-25 16:02:05 <ThomasV> my script can verify the sig of existing valid transactions, but for some reason its own transactions seem to be invalid
 717 2011-10-25 16:02:07 <gavinandresen> So I'd fire up a bitcoind under gdb and then put a breakpoint where it checks transaction validation.  Or use one of the other up-and-coming implementations and but a breakpoint in their txn-validation code....
 718 2011-10-25 16:02:56 <ThomasV> ok, so in other words, there's no existing debug tool for that
 719 2011-10-25 16:02:58 <gavinandresen> I don't have any check-a-transaction-for-validity tools handy, maybe somebody else does
 720 2011-10-25 16:03:24 <ThomasV> ok
 721 2011-10-25 16:03:28 <casascius> i saw my name and "not cool"
 722 2011-10-25 16:05:00 <casascius> copumpkin: ??
 723 2011-10-25 16:07:17 <copumpkin> casascius: I just got an email from you ;)
 724 2011-10-25 16:07:22 erus` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 725 2011-10-25 16:07:39 <copumpkin> having never given you my email address...
 726 2011-10-25 16:07:43 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
 727 2011-10-25 16:07:53 <casascius> What did I purportedly say?
 728 2011-10-25 16:08:06 <copumpkin> an email address which is available in a public leak of mtgox user data :)
 729 2011-10-25 16:08:22 <casascius> I'm not in the midst of sending any e-mail so...
 730 2011-10-25 16:08:24 <copumpkin> http://snapplr.com/3z5k
 731 2011-10-25 16:08:27 <casascius> I'm interested to know
 732 2011-10-25 16:08:35 <copumpkin> maybe not you?
 733 2011-10-25 16:08:48 <casascius> Oh, someone has set up a phishing site.
 734 2011-10-25 16:09:03 <copumpkin> oh okay :)
 735 2011-10-25 16:09:20 <copumpkin> well then, let's replace the "not cool" to you, with "not cool" to them
 736 2011-10-25 16:10:32 <terrytibbs> Not cool
 737 2011-10-25 16:11:49 agricocb has joined
 738 2011-10-25 16:12:09 <terrytibbs> copumpkin: Are you the pumpkin i remember from iphone-dev?
 739 2011-10-25 16:12:18 <copumpkin> yep
 740 2011-10-25 16:12:33 <terrytibbs> neat
 741 2011-10-25 16:12:48 <ThomasV> no, he's an imposter!
 742 2011-10-25 16:12:56 <ThomasV> I am the pumpkin
 743 2011-10-25 16:13:00 <copumpkin> lol
 744 2011-10-25 16:13:07 <rjk2> no you are a train
 745 2011-10-25 16:13:17 <ThomasV> that too
 746 2011-10-25 16:15:04 <UukGoblin> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/24/ssl_dos_tool_released/
 747 2011-10-25 16:17:29 * rjk2 tests his server
 748 2011-10-25 16:18:34 machine2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 749 2011-10-25 16:19:55 <copumpkin> :o
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 756 2011-10-25 16:29:42 <rjk2> kool, i'm safe from the run-of-the-mill skript kiddies then
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 759 2011-10-25 16:30:06 <rjk2> although ones that can code can also cause chaos
 760 2011-10-25 16:30:14 zhoutong has joined
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 762 2011-10-25 16:33:34 <UukGoblin> hrm
 763 2011-10-25 16:33:38 <UukGoblin> ssl reneg is disabled here
 764 2011-10-25 16:33:56 <UukGoblin> "ERROR: Target has disabled renegotiations.\n" "Use your own skills to modify the source to test/attack\n" "the target [hint: TCP reconnect for every handshake].\n"
 765 2011-10-25 16:34:15 <UukGoblin> do you know if someone's already done that, or should I spend some time on it?
 766 2011-10-25 16:34:54 <rjk2> according to the readme/source you should be able to get a modded bin from them my asking in an email
 767 2011-10-25 16:34:56 Daniel0108 has joined
 768 2011-10-25 16:34:57 <rjk2> not tried though
 769 2011-10-25 16:36:23 <rjk2> "Ask THC (members@thc.org) for the private release of this tool to test/attack the target."
 770 2011-10-25 16:38:58 devrandom has joined
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 772 2011-10-25 16:39:12 <UukGoblin> I don't want a bin, I want a diff.
 773 2011-10-25 16:39:26 <rjk2> need moar skillz
 774 2011-10-25 16:39:35 <rjk2> (i don't have them lol)
 775 2011-10-25 16:39:36 <UukGoblin> well like my workmate pointed out
 776 2011-10-25 16:39:41 <UukGoblin> even if it works with reneg disabled
 777 2011-10-25 16:39:47 <UukGoblin> it's not like there's a fix available :-p
 778 2011-10-25 16:40:16 <casascius> so, someone has duplicated my physical bitcoins site at a new domain.  i don't suppose there is a whole lot i can do about it... any obvious ideas i should be pursuing?
 779 2011-10-25 16:40:28 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r383ad8b / contrib/gitian-descriptors/README : Add notes on getting gitian builds going (+14 more commits...) - http://git.io/oWZvAg
 780 2011-10-25 16:40:31 <rjk2> lol sux2be me, i can't dos my server but i can dos my router
 781 2011-10-25 16:40:46 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen blockheaders * rb24aa4a / src/main.cpp : Saving work... (+534 more commits...) - http://git.io/ixUk3w
 782 2011-10-25 16:41:22 <rjk2> casascius: what new domain?
 783 2011-10-25 16:41:33 <casascius> fake domain: casascius.net  real: https://www.casascius.com
 784 2011-10-25 16:41:37 topace has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 785 2011-10-25 16:41:39 <neofutur> casascius: contact the whois abuse email
 786 2011-10-25 16:41:47 <UukGoblin> casascius, report it as scam/fraudulent to firewall/antivirus companies
 787 2011-10-25 16:41:50 <gavinandresen> casascius: I bet there's good suggestions on the Anti Phishing Working Group's site
 788 2011-10-25 16:41:52 <neofutur> most hostings will manage this
 789 2011-10-25 16:42:05 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
 790 2011-10-25 16:42:05 <UukGoblin> casascius, I like your physcoins btw. got 2 ;-)
 791 2011-10-25 16:42:14 TheDaniel0108 has joined
 792 2011-10-25 16:42:15 <neofutur> and shutdown the site/server or give 24 hours to the owner to fix it
 793 2011-10-25 16:42:28 <casascius> i suppose it will end up going to some other TLD after not too much longer, but i will definitely pursue it
 794 2011-10-25 16:42:37 <neofutur> casascius: url ?
 795 2011-10-25 16:42:56 <casascius> fake: http://casascius.net  real: https://www.casascius.com
 796 2011-10-25 16:42:58 <gmaxwell> casascius: a bunch of people are talking about your coins now as a result of that email— I've warned people in two non-bitcoin channels that just started talking about them a few minutes ago.
 797 2011-10-25 16:43:13 <casascius> i wonder if i should be spamming the list with a phishing warning
 798 2011-10-25 16:43:52 <ThomasV> hmm I can imagine the media titles: "bitcoin scammers try to sell you worthless brass coins"
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 803 2011-10-25 16:44:03 Daniel0107 is now known as Daniel0108
 804 2011-10-25 16:44:09 <neofutur> whois in bahamas, hosting in russia :p
 805 2011-10-25 16:44:10 <casascius> i have seen an uptick in real orders this morning as well
 806 2011-10-25 16:44:11 <neofutur> wont be easy
 807 2011-10-25 16:45:31 <rjk2> registrar is http://internetbs.net/ and they have an "emergency hotline" button lawl
 808 2011-10-25 16:45:52 <rjk2> probably goes to call center in the middle of nowhere
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 815 2011-10-25 16:59:37 <Ramen> ;;bc,stats
 816 2011-10-25 16:59:40 <gribble> Current Blocks: 150601 | Current Difficulty: 1468195.4272208 | Next Difficulty At Block: 151199 | Next Difficulty In: 598 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 0 hours, 55 minutes, and 44 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1244004.65082283 | Estimated Percent Change: -15.2698184616
 817 2011-10-25 16:59:46 Ramen has left ()
 818 2011-10-25 17:00:05 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #76: FAILURE in 15 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/76/
 819 2011-10-25 17:00:05 <BlueMattBot> * gavinandresen: Update qt readme to indicate Qt is now the primary GUI.
 820 2011-10-25 17:00:06 <BlueMattBot> * gavinandresen: Only define __STDC_LIMIT_MACROS if not already defined.
 821 2011-10-25 17:00:06 <BlueMattBot> * gavinandresen: Add -Wno-strict-aliasing because boost breaks that too much.
 822 2011-10-25 17:00:07 <BlueMattBot> * gavinandresen: Add returns to avoid annoying compile-time warnings.
 823 2011-10-25 17:00:07 <BlueMattBot> * gavinandresen: Add option to specify a different suffix for boost_thread.
 824 2011-10-25 17:00:08 <BlueMattBot> * gavinandresen: Add BOOST_THREAD_USE_LIB define.
 825 2011-10-25 17:00:09 <BlueMattBot> * gavinandresen: Optionally include additional QT plugins when required to build.
 826 2011-10-25 17:00:09 <BlueMattBot> * gavinandresen: Allow miniupnpc include path specificaiton and fix link on Win32.
 827 2011-10-25 17:00:09 <BlueMattBot> * gavinandresen: Update Linux gitian descriptor for bitcoin-qt.
 828 2011-10-25 17:00:10 <BlueMattBot> * gavinandresen: Remove wxWidgets gitian descriptors.
 829 2011-10-25 17:00:11 <BlueMattBot> * gavinandresen: Decrease number of installed packages for Linux Gitian build.
 830 2011-10-25 17:00:11 <BlueMattBot> * gavinandresen: Update setup.nsi for bitcoin-qt.
 831 2011-10-25 17:00:12 <BlueMattBot> * gavinandresen: Update openssl to 1.0.0e.
 832 2011-10-25 17:00:12 <BlueMattBot> * gavinandresen: Update documentation to reflect reality (no win32 gitian builds, new Mac process)
 833 2011-10-25 17:00:12 <BlueMattBot> * gavinandresen: Add notes on getting gitian builds going
 834 2011-10-25 17:00:41 <gmaxwell> casascius: that form always gives me 1GHRsryckBsSfKgv6zbun5egbxq8GCT8f1  doesn't look like they've gotten any coins yet.
 835 2011-10-25 17:01:56 <ThomasV> perhaps they are really selling casascius coins
 836 2011-10-25 17:02:52 <gmaxwell> ThomasV: might be hard with a determinstic payment address. how would they know who paid? :)
 837 2011-10-25 17:03:14 <casascius> where would they get the casascius coins?
 838 2011-10-25 17:03:22 <ThomasV> casascius: from you
 839 2011-10-25 17:03:32 <casascius> they're not...it's a fraud
 840 2011-10-25 17:04:08 <ThomasV> they buy coins from you, read the private key, replace the hologram, and resell them :-)
 841 2011-10-25 17:04:28 <rjk2> ...and why would they bother
 842 2011-10-25 17:04:29 <ThomasV> months after they spend the key
 843 2011-10-25 17:04:33 <gmaxwell> ThomasV: the coins resist that.
 844 2011-10-25 17:04:53 <gmaxwell> and yea.. why bother. Get btc now.
 845 2011-10-25 17:05:00 <casascius> guess only time will tell whether people get fake casascius coins, or no casascius coins
 846 2011-10-25 17:05:07 <casascius> i would venture to say no coins
 847 2011-10-25 17:05:21 <ThomasV> yeah, it's more likely
 848 2011-10-25 17:05:34 <ThomasV> just trying to imagine a cool scenario
 849 2011-10-25 17:05:52 <gmaxwell> "Movie plot threat"
 850 2011-10-25 17:06:21 <gmaxwell> "They've really loaded the coins with a secret virus engineered by the CIA that makes people hate bitcoin!"
 851 2011-10-25 17:06:39 <ThomasV> oh nice ^^
 852 2011-10-25 17:07:04 <casascius> gmaxwell: I have been getting the same static address
 853 2011-10-25 17:07:34 gjs278 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 854 2011-10-25 17:07:46 <gmaxwell> well, I suppose you should report it to the exchanges and ask that if they see anything redeemed via it that they contact law enforcement.
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 862 2011-10-25 17:23:31 <CIA-101> libbitcoin: genjix * red6c26378fe8 / (8 files in 5 dirs): Proper getblocks cycle.
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 872 2011-10-25 17:38:44 <casascius> I am emailing the mtgox list with a phishing warning.
 873 2011-10-25 17:38:49 <casascius> Ironically, now I feel like a spammer myself
 874 2011-10-25 17:38:58 <copumpkin> casascius++
 875 2011-10-25 17:39:39 <casascius> And hope that I don't get in trouble with my ISP - or my IP blacklisted - for blowing out thousands of e-mails.  (It's not somehting I normally do)
 876 2011-10-25 17:40:17 <terrytibbs> You go gi.. dude!
 877 2011-10-25 17:41:05 <terrytibbs> Just got your mail, but not the phishing one.
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 882 2011-10-25 17:46:30 <casascius> I honestly didn't get the phishing one either, though it may have been filtered
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 884 2011-10-25 17:47:10 <nanotube> casascius: some guy just asked on -otc-foyer about that email
 885 2011-10-25 17:47:22 <nanotube> so it's important to get awareness out there
 886 2011-10-25 17:48:24 <casascius> for the amount of "spam" i'm getting, the replies are all "thanks for letting me know", more so than anything
 887 2011-10-25 17:48:27 <casascius> *getting -> sending
 888 2011-10-25 17:48:45 <nanotube> hehe yea
 889 2011-10-25 17:49:07 machine2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 890 2011-10-25 17:49:11 <nanotube> casascius: btw, if you wanna try to 'authenticate' your site, you could try the gpg identity protocol, using your otc reg
 891 2011-10-25 17:49:25 <nanotube> at the very least, the .net guys won't be able to duplicate that bit
 892 2011-10-25 17:49:38 dedeibel has joined
 893 2011-10-25 17:49:44 <nanotube> no telling how many people would actually check the sig :)
 894 2011-10-25 17:49:45 <nanotube> but it's something
 895 2011-10-25 17:49:53 <casascius> how does that work?  i would prpobably think to do EV-SSL which is joe-friendly ( just expensive)
 896 2011-10-25 17:50:27 <nanotube> well, as far as noobs go, they won't check the cert just as much as they won't check the gpg sig :)
 897 2011-10-25 17:50:43 <casascius> I don't get an enormous number of orders anyway, but i don't market that aggressively
 898 2011-10-25 17:50:46 <nanotube> http://wiki.bitcoin-otc.com/wiki/GPG_Identity_Protocol <- casascius
 899 2011-10-25 17:51:08 <casascius> the only fear is that scammer might go out and do some marketing
 900 2011-10-25 17:51:11 <nanotube> i should probably make a nice friendly picture for this :)
 901 2011-10-25 17:51:20 <casascius> at that rate, he might as well just sell legit coins and make some BTC rather than scamming people
 902 2011-10-25 17:51:47 <nanotube> haha true. though he'd make more money by having 100% profit margin (scamming) than having a 10% profit margin or whatnot (selling real coins)
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 908 2011-10-25 17:52:51 <casascius> i suppose i could do the same but people would wise up to it
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 912 2011-10-25 17:59:14 <nanotube> well, it's a question of whether you think long term or short term
 913 2011-10-25 17:59:22 <nanotube> unfortunately, scammers fall into the latter category :)
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 918 2011-10-25 18:05:20 <nanotube> casascius: btw, good news, .net is not responding
 919 2011-10-25 18:05:39 <rjk2> nice
 920 2011-10-25 18:06:17 <copumpkin> you hate microsoft, eh
 921 2011-10-25 18:06:38 <rjk2> ?
 922 2011-10-25 18:06:42 <copumpkin> .NET
 923 2011-10-25 18:06:47 <copumpkin> dumb joke, sorry
 924 2011-10-25 18:06:47 osmosis has joined
 925 2011-10-25 18:07:08 * rjk2 cannot believe he didn't get it the first time
 926 2011-10-25 18:07:09 <rjk2> sorry
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 928 2011-10-25 18:09:48 <casascius> .net responded to me just now =(
 929 2011-10-25 18:10:07 <casascius> unless it got taken down at DNS level and it's just cached for me
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 932 2011-10-25 18:15:29 <terrytibbs> I like the little bit of text he added to the page: "Visit ebay for buy bitcoin for card or paypal."
 933 2011-10-25 18:16:13 zhoutong has joined
 934 2011-10-25 18:17:27 <neofutur> (19:38) < casascius> the only fear is that scammer might go out and do some marketing
 935 2011-10-25 18:17:44 <neofutur> you should watch news on #bc-news + a highlight on casascius
 936 2011-10-25 18:17:44 <rjk2> hmmm so perhaps he is the same guy that is selling BTC for hugely inflated prices on eBay?
 937 2011-10-25 18:17:59 <neofutur> wouldnt be the first scam i see in tweets or other
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 942 2011-10-25 18:28:15 <nanotube> casascius: ah, i tried https, http still works. sucks.
 943 2011-10-25 18:28:23 <nanotube> on the plus side, i did get your spam :)
 944 2011-10-25 18:28:40 <casascius> assuming spam is a plus =)
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 949 2011-10-25 18:41:44 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: idea: can we get an "official" ppa for bitcoin and commit the debian/ directory into bitcoin src tree so that we can have real ubuntu/debian packages the way most people expect us to?
 950 2011-10-25 18:42:00 <nanotube> casascius: haha well yea
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 952 2011-10-25 18:42:25 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: what is a ppa?
 953 2011-10-25 18:42:40 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: personal package archive, ie a repo of binary deb packages
 954 2011-10-25 18:42:43 <nanotube> personal package archive
 955 2011-10-25 18:42:47 <nanotube> bah
 956 2011-10-25 18:42:47 <nanotube> heh
 957 2011-10-25 18:42:55 <gavinandresen> I don't know nuthin about packaging software for linux....
 958 2011-10-25 18:42:57 <BlueMatt> (the way most debian/ubuntu software is distributed aside from official channels)
 959 2011-10-25 18:42:57 <nanotube> a private apt repository
 960 2011-10-25 18:43:12 <BlueMatt> and since official channels are still on 0.3.24 and only bitcoind...
 961 2011-10-25 18:43:33 <gavinandresen> (and who is "we" ?)
 962 2011-10-25 18:43:34 <nanotube> as an ubuntu user, i think it's a great idea, BlueMatt
 963 2011-10-25 18:43:55 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: probably me...
 964 2011-10-25 18:44:09 <BlueMatt> btw we already have a "team" and ppa, they just arent used
 965 2011-10-25 18:44:19 <BlueMatt> mostly Im asking if you would commit the debian/ dir to src tree
 966 2011-10-25 18:44:23 <nanotube> gavinandresen: plus side of apt repos: they're gpg signed
 967 2011-10-25 18:44:26 <BlueMatt> (its a dir with build instructions)
 968 2011-10-25 18:45:08 <gavinandresen> jgarzik knows about distributing software on linux, I'd let him figure out if it is a good idea
 969 2011-10-25 18:45:34 * BlueMatt hasnt seen jgarzik in months...
 970 2011-10-25 18:45:37 <BlueMatt> ;;seen jgarzik
 971 2011-10-25 18:45:38 <gribble> jgarzik was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 23 hours, 58 minutes, and 14 seconds ago: <jgarzik> tcatm: sure we do...  we don't merge new features during -rc, making the merge window !rc
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 974 2011-10-25 18:48:24 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: in general, I'm all for anything to make the release process more secure or easier.
 975 2011-10-25 18:48:54 <BlueMatt> more secure: kind of, building takes place on canonical-controlled servers, easier -> yes especially very much easier for users
 976 2011-10-25 18:50:32 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: successfully built gitian-linux today, by the way.  Working on an AWS mingw build... (downloading and compiling boost 1.47 right now)
 977 2011-10-25 18:50:46 <BlueMatt> nice
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 988 2011-10-25 19:03:47 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: I'm pretty much always on
 989 2011-10-25 19:03:57 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: though high latency is normal
 990 2011-10-25 19:04:17 dbe has joined
 991 2011-10-25 19:04:47 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I know, I was just commenting that Im never on when you are
 992 2011-10-25 19:04:58 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: yeah that's for sure :)
 993 2011-10-25 19:05:25 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: my normal work zone is 12 noon EST - 4 am EST, which tends to be opposite just about anyone in EU
 994 2011-10-25 19:05:43 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: keep in mind Im in Chapel Hill now...
 995 2011-10-25 19:06:53 <jgarzik> BlueMatt / gavinandresen: I don't think making $distro-specific packages should be in the realm of the Official Bitcoin Team.  Distribute the load to trusted community members, who are interested in distro X or distro Y
 996 2011-10-25 19:07:18 <jgarzik> from working with Fedora and Debian, I can tell you it's a huge pain to follow the moving target of X packaging technologies
 997 2011-10-25 19:07:35 TD_ has joined
 998 2011-10-25 19:07:45 <TD_> it's good to have an upstream provided package imho
 999 2011-10-25 19:07:50 <TD_> even it's just a generic rpm/deb
1000 2011-10-25 19:07:55 TD has quit (Disconnected by services)
1001 2011-10-25 19:07:55 TD_ is now known as TD
1002 2011-10-25 19:08:08 <TD> distro specific packages inevitably get months or even years behind
1003 2011-10-25 19:08:16 <TD> security updates can be easily botched
1004 2011-10-25 19:08:31 <BlueMatt> I would argue for upstream ppa, many linux applications do that, virtualbox (ok, maybe not a good example...)
1005 2011-10-25 19:08:31 <TD> sometimes people come up with creative ways of packaging things that can break the software, etc, etc
1006 2011-10-25 19:09:40 <jgarzik> TD: where are the resource for all that work, though?  All I argue is that there is no driving need for the core team to work on deploying for N linux platforms, for each release.  The Bitcoin Debian Team can handle that.
1007 2011-10-25 19:10:06 <jgarzik> TD: in a perfect world, I agree, there Should Be People To Do That :)
1008 2011-10-25 19:10:56 <jgarzik> or rather, I disagree that 0.5 and future bitcoin releases should be blocked, waiting for fedora + debian packages
1009 2011-10-25 19:11:05 <jgarzik> specifically
1010 2011-10-25 19:11:16 <BlueMatt> the bitcoin debian team currently is jonas who (afaik) never has any contact with bitcoin core team...thats not the way to do packaging...also he hasnt done bitcoin-qt packages yet (not that I blame him, but he did do bitcoin 0.5)
1011 2011-10-25 19:11:17 <jgarzik> or ubuntu or whatever
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1013 2011-10-25 19:11:29 <BlueMatt> I dont think thats a blocker, packages can be delayed till after "release"
1014 2011-10-25 19:11:37 <TD> linux binaries are already compiled
1015 2011-10-25 19:11:39 <TD> it's not really much more work
1016 2011-10-25 19:11:39 <BlueMatt> we already do releases, why not do proper releases the way people expect
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1018 2011-10-25 19:12:37 <jgarzik> In Linux people get the vast majority of their software through Established OS Channels (i.e. the distros themselves).  That is proper releases the way people expect.
1019 2011-10-25 19:13:21 <BlueMatt> for many smaller projects that move quick the way people expect is to add a ppa
1020 2011-10-25 19:14:26 <nanotube> BlueMatt: could we just have bitcoin-deb and bitcoin-rpm (and whatever else) forks, where the people in charge of the packaging will be managing the packaging-related files, and nothing else?
1021 2011-10-25 19:14:36 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: Nobody is stopping you or anybody from doing that.  I just argue against any core team mandate or hard/blocker connection between bitcoin source release and packages for Ubuntu/Fedora/Debian/...
1022 2011-10-25 19:14:44 <nanotube> so just get someone who's interested in that to make a -deb fork on github
1023 2011-10-25 19:14:47 <jgarzik> distribute the work.  that is the open source way.
1024 2011-10-25 19:14:50 <nanotube> and stuff the debian directory in there
1025 2011-10-25 19:15:08 <jgarzik> he who needs and wants this stuff, will make this stuff happen.  :)
1026 2011-10-25 19:15:43 <jgarzik> Linus Torvalds doesn't personally generate Fedora and Debian kernel rpms, neither should Gavin have to bother with such specificity.
1027 2011-10-25 19:16:08 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: Im arguing for not changing much of anything and doing debian releases the way gitian ones are done, scripts are pretty much updated by me and run by whoever feels like it, the releases happen whether the build scripts work or not, then when the release happens the scripts are updated and stuff is built
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1029 2011-10-25 19:18:06 <jgarzik> I actually don't think Gavin should bother with binary releases on Linux at all.  Just release a tarball + win build + osx build.  Then various linux build teams may take over from there.
1030 2011-10-25 19:18:24 <jgarzik> It doesn't scale to require core bitcoin release management to block on distro-specific details, IMO.
1031 2011-10-25 19:19:20 <BlueMatt> I would say its not gavins job to do any binaries, but the job of anyone who has the time...gavin (up until recently) did tarballs and builds were handled by others
1032 2011-10-25 19:19:28 <BlueMatt> so yea, I largely agree
1033 2011-10-25 19:19:40 <BlueMatt> but Im just asking for an official link to a bitcoin ppa
1034 2011-10-25 19:19:44 <nanotube> fwiw, /me uses the official linux binaries
1035 2011-10-25 19:19:44 <jgarzik> High Value projects such as mysql, etc. make source releases, then the distros integrate that.  security updates are fast-tracked, major version releases are slotted into the appropriate OS Distro channels.  "enterprise" distros update to major version releases less frequently (RHEL, debian stable).
1036 2011-10-25 19:19:47 <helo> isn't bitcoin too much of a moving target for distro packages for stable releases to be a good idea?
1037 2011-10-25 19:20:01 <nanotube> helo: hence BlueMatt's talk about a ppa
1038 2011-10-25 19:20:08 <helo> yeah, ppa...
1039 2011-10-25 19:20:16 <jgarzik> helo: plenty of people run 0.3.19 and don't plan on upgrading
1040 2011-10-25 19:20:31 copumpkin is now known as amphitheater
1041 2011-10-25 19:20:33 <gavinandresen> speaking of binary releases... what is the secret to compiling a mingw boost?
1042 2011-10-25 19:20:35 <jgarzik> helo: bitcoin has been designed to behave in a forward-and-backward compatible manner
1043 2011-10-25 19:20:39 <gavinandresen> (on windows)
1044 2011-10-25 19:20:52 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: use an old version iirc...
1045 2011-10-25 19:21:06 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: imo just steal the binaries from the already-built fedora copy
1046 2011-10-25 19:21:07 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: sigh...
1047 2011-10-25 19:21:17 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: fresh, updated boost headers and DLLs
1048 2011-10-25 19:21:49 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: okey dokey.  Where do I get an already-built fedora copy from?
1049 2011-10-25 19:21:57 amphitheater is now known as copumpkin
1050 2011-10-25 19:23:35 <jgarzik> mingw32-boost-debuginfo.noarch : Debug information for package mingw32-boost
1051 2011-10-25 19:23:35 <jgarzik> mingw32-boost.noarch : MinGW Windows port of Boost C++ Libraries
1052 2011-10-25 19:23:36 <jgarzik> mingw32-boost-static.noarch : Static version of the MinGW Windows Boost C++
1053 2011-10-25 19:24:14 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: install Fedora + 'yum install <the packages just pasted>' + copy files from list generated from 'rpm -ql <a package name>'
1054 2011-10-25 19:24:17 <gavinandresen> Okey dokey.  So I'm at a MSYS prompt on my AWS windows instance....    how do I get those ?
1055 2011-10-25 19:24:37 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: + zip them up, and unzip in AWS windows instance
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1057 2011-10-25 19:25:07 <gavinandresen> Anybody want to volunteer to upload a zip so I don't have to install Fedora?
1058 2011-10-25 19:25:12 djdexter has joined
1059 2011-10-25 19:25:30 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: I can do that real quick
1060 2011-10-25 19:25:34 <gavinandresen> Thanks!
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1066 2011-10-25 19:34:02 <graingert> is there any plan for a version 1>?
1067 2011-10-25 19:34:05 <graingert> ?
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1069 2011-10-25 19:34:26 <graingert> and what qualities would be needed before bitcoin is considered "released"
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1074 2011-10-25 19:34:56 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: http://yyz.us/bitcoin/mingw32-boost-fedora.zip  ... but I am having second thoughts.  That might only work for mingw-linux :/
1075 2011-10-25 19:35:15 <jgarzik> older mingw-fedora releases used .dll, but this uses .dll.a
1076 2011-10-25 19:35:29 <jgarzik> even though it is 100% ms-win32 binary code
1077 2011-10-25 19:36:20 <gavinandresen> .dll.a ?  is that static or dynamic?
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1080 2011-10-25 19:37:01 <gavinandresen> (I'd really rather not add more dlls to the setup.exe installer)
1081 2011-10-25 19:37:08 NickelBot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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1084 2011-10-25 19:38:42 <terrytibbs> gavinandresen: dll.a is for import libraries
1085 2011-10-25 19:40:02 <graingert> BlueMatt ubuntu oneiric includes bitcoind now
1086 2011-10-25 19:40:06 <graingert> in universe I think
1087 2011-10-25 19:41:08 <BlueMatt> yep, 0.3.24 though
1088 2011-10-25 19:41:22 <graingert> 0.3.24~dfsg-1
1089 2011-10-25 19:41:36 <graingert> !google dfsg
1090 2011-10-25 19:42:01 <graingert> fine I'll do it my self
1091 2011-10-25 19:42:08 <BlueMatt> already doing it...
1092 2011-10-25 19:42:16 <BlueMatt> (debian has 0.5 rc1 in unstable already)
1093 2011-10-25 19:42:36 <nanotube> graingert: try ;; :)
1094 2011-10-25 19:42:52 <terrytibbs> ;;google dfsg
1095 2011-10-25 19:42:53 <gribble> Debian Social Contract: <http://www.debian.org/social_contract>; Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG) and Software License FAQ: <http://people.debian.org/~bap/dfsg-faq.html>; DFSGLicenses - Debian Wiki: <http://wiki.debian.org/DFSGLicenses>
1096 2011-10-25 19:43:11 <graingert> oh is bang not usuable in -dev?
1097 2011-10-25 19:43:57 <graingert> gavinandresen: how does the setup.exe handle QT deps?
1098 2011-10-25 19:44:10 NickelBot has joined
1099 2011-10-25 19:44:14 <graingert> if I have a bunch of QT apps installed do I get a copy of QT for each
1100 2011-10-25 19:44:15 <BlueMatt> there are no qt deps
1101 2011-10-25 19:44:21 <BlueMatt> its static linked
1102 2011-10-25 19:44:22 <graingert> BlueMatt: oh rly?
1103 2011-10-25 19:44:25 <graingert> OH GOD
1104 2011-10-25 19:44:35 <BlueMatt> of course, its windows
1105 2011-10-25 19:44:36 <gavinandresen> disk space is cheap....
1106 2011-10-25 19:44:39 <BlueMatt> everything is static...
1107 2011-10-25 19:44:41 <graingert> meh sucks2windows I guess
1108 2011-10-25 19:45:17 <BlueMatt> static is the standard on win32...
1109 2011-10-25 19:45:19 <BlueMatt> (sadly)
1110 2011-10-25 19:47:38 <gavinandresen> Anybody know the secret to compiling db4.8 ?  I'm getting this:  http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2j4ul2v&s=7   following the doc/build-msw.txt instructions
1111 2011-10-25 19:48:06 <graingert> that pic isn't loading for me
1112 2011-10-25 19:48:46 <cjdelisl1> enable script
1113 2011-10-25 19:51:51 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: that fedora zip is boost 1.46... I was kinda hoping to use 1.47 for all the releases.
1114 2011-10-25 19:53:19 <graingert> http://imgur.com/IFiMq
1115 2011-10-25 19:53:26 <CIA-101> libbitcoin: genjix * r808f0e1138c0 /src/transaction.cpp: I prefer this way of iterating.
1116 2011-10-25 19:54:08 <graingert> (for those having trouble with that tinypic)
1117 2011-10-25 19:54:35 <graingert> gavinandresen: http://code.google.com/p/mintty/
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1120 2011-10-25 20:04:56 <gavinandresen> whaddya know, there's a forum thread with the magic how-to-build-db-4.8 sauce:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=45507.0
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1126 2011-10-25 20:18:08 <imsaguy> so bitchange.pl is closing evidently
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1128 2011-10-25 20:18:15 <imsaguy> "Another subject, however, also be taken into account when deciding to develop the Bitcoin, and its official client. Bitcoin Development does not have the dynamics to which we had hoped, and the same client version 0.4.0 runs extremely slowly, which would require redesign of the exchange mechanisms."
1129 2011-10-25 20:18:28 <imsaguy> https://bitchange.pl/informacje/Zamkni%C4%99cie-gie%C5%82dy
1130 2011-10-25 20:18:57 <gmaxwell> I wonder what insane thing they were doing.
1131 2011-10-25 20:19:13 <imsaguy> I dunno.
1132 2011-10-25 20:19:31 <gavinandresen> bitcoind isn't optimized for gazillions of wallets
1133 2011-10-25 20:19:32 <imsaguy> It might not hurt to contact them and ask.
1134 2011-10-25 20:19:38 <gavinandresen> ... or lots of sends...
1135 2011-10-25 20:19:40 <gmaxwell> Perhaps the core developers need to put out a call to invite people to participate— it's weird that people have issues and expect them to just be resolved without bringing them up.
1136 2011-10-25 20:20:12 <gmaxwell> Yea, I could _speculate_ they're hitting that corner case with lots of self-inputs making the IsConfirmed,IsMine stuff go really slow in coin selection, but thats just a guess.
1137 2011-10-25 20:20:33 <gavinandresen> If they're doing lots of listtransactions that'll get slow quickly, too
1138 2011-10-25 20:21:03 <gavinandresen> I'm OK with exchanges closing if they're not willing to hire developers to improve their infrastructure, frankly.
1139 2011-10-25 20:21:16 <imsaguy> its crazy to try to run everything off a single instance anyway
1140 2011-10-25 20:21:21 <gmaxwell> It can be avoided by using sendmany, and by not having a wallet where a single ginormous input is used over and over again to pay people... too.
1141 2011-10-25 20:21:33 <imsaguy> if anything you store your transactions in a db and a cron spool sit off to a series of bitcoind's
1142 2011-10-25 20:21:57 <gmaxwell> imsaguy: well, I dunno that I want people that are unwilling/unable to improve bitcoind to start writing their own either.
1143 2011-10-25 20:22:16 <gmaxwell> oh you said series, I can't read today.
1144 2011-10-25 20:22:17 <gmaxwell> Sure.
1145 2011-10-25 20:25:35 hippich has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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1149 2011-10-25 20:27:58 <gavinandresen> Should we start a betting pool as to when the Bitcoin Foundation thread I just started in the forums reaches 200 posts?  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49841
1150 2011-10-25 20:29:03 tac-tics has joined
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1153 2011-10-25 20:32:12 <imsaguy> my bet is that by the time you get the pool setup, it'll have already hit 200 posts
1154 2011-10-25 20:32:15 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: Tor's org is well managed, though they have the need and advatnage of recieving large governemnt grants. Something which I don't see in bitcoin foundation's immediate future. Sounds perfectly reasonable regardless.
1155 2011-10-25 20:32:32 <gmaxwell> (saving my post for the 200th...)
1156 2011-10-25 20:33:45 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, we looked into it, doing so in the netherlands at least is prohibitively expensive
1157 2011-10-25 20:34:13 tac-tics has left ()
1158 2011-10-25 20:34:52 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: good to know, thanks
1159 2011-10-25 20:34:54 <Eliel> ah, excellent, that was one of the first things I wondered about when I found out about bitcoin on 29th of May this year :)
1160 2011-10-25 20:34:59 <Eliel> that is, why is there no foundation
1161 2011-10-25 20:36:31 ej_ has joined
1162 2011-10-25 20:36:43 <gmaxwell> One hazard is that the foundation will be conflated with bitcoin itself.
1163 2011-10-25 20:37:06 <gmaxwell> So say the foundation gets in trouble for embezzling (woo for worst case thinking) ... "BITCOIN EMBEZZLES MONEY!!" would be a terrible headline.
1164 2011-10-25 20:38:04 <Eliel> well, one option is to make that very difficulty through extreme transparency.
1165 2011-10-25 20:38:13 chmod755 has joined
1166 2011-10-25 20:38:23 <gmaxwell> There is no way to stem all possible scandals.
1167 2011-10-25 20:39:00 <gmaxwell> for the same reasons the foundation is a good idea— that the greater world can't cope with decenteralized things— it has risks too.
1168 2011-10-25 20:39:03 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, the filling fee in the US is based on expected donations, less than 5000 USD and it's free, [5000,10000) is 400 USD, 10k USD and above is 850 USD
1169 2011-10-25 20:39:21 ej__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1170 2011-10-25 20:39:36 <nanotube> phantomcircuit: those fees are essentially negligible
1171 2011-10-25 20:39:41 <Eliel> huh? expected donations? how does that work?
1172 2011-10-25 20:39:48 <gmaxwell> (e.g. that the world couldn't understand how someone important at the bitcoin foundation could be convicted of a crime, but have that not materially impact bitcoin at all)
1173 2011-10-25 20:39:48 <phantomcircuit> nanotube, only if you've already got the money ;)
1174 2011-10-25 20:40:07 <phantomcircuit> although i suspect you can basically always start the non profit saying you expect very little donations
1175 2011-10-25 20:40:12 <phantomcircuit> and then be happily surprised
1176 2011-10-25 20:40:39 <nanotube> phantomcircuit: hell, i'd be happy to kick in the 850usd myself, if it came to that. peanuts.
1177 2011-10-25 20:40:39 [Tycho] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1178 2011-10-25 20:40:43 <nanotube> it's not like it's 85kusd :)
1179 2011-10-25 20:41:02 <nanotube> but yes, can always start small and be pleasantly surprised
1180 2011-10-25 20:41:26 <Eliel> gmaxwell: that's true, but I do think the benefits outweigh the negatives.
1181 2011-10-25 20:41:29 <cjdelisl1> IMO pretty much any press bitcoin can get would be good
1182 2011-10-25 20:41:46 <phantomcircuit> nanotube, well to put it in perspective in nl it was 10k EUR
1183 2011-10-25 20:41:48 <phantomcircuit> so...
1184 2011-10-25 20:41:48 <phantomcircuit> yeah
1185 2011-10-25 20:42:34 <Eliel> gmaxwell: besides, there will be lots of people who do get how things work.
1186 2011-10-25 20:42:44 <gmaxwell> Eliel: Right, I wasn't trying to suggest otherwises. Just pointing out some of the factors.
1187 2011-10-25 20:43:00 [Tycho] has joined
1188 2011-10-25 20:43:02 <cjdelisl1> it might sound laughable but I wouldn't be surprised to see government funding a bitcoin 501c*
1189 2011-10-25 20:43:09 <osmosis> The Apache Software Foundation seems to be working well. I like how they have a list of projects they work on. I'd like to see better communication and coordination with other bitcoin related projects. bitcoinj, bitcoin wallet, etc.
1190 2011-10-25 20:43:15 <Eliel> cjdelisl1: how come?
1191 2011-10-25 20:43:47 <cjdelisl1> because it's interesting, disruptive, if it can hurt them it can hurt their enemies more
1192 2011-10-25 20:44:30 <cjdelisl1> similar reasons to funding tor
1193 2011-10-25 20:44:45 <cjdelisl1> without the part about using it for the military ;)
1194 2011-10-25 20:44:46 <phantomcircuit> i doubt we're going to convince DARPA to fund bitcoin :P
1195 2011-10-25 20:44:52 <phantomcircuit> but it's worth a shot :P
1196 2011-10-25 20:45:03 <cjdelisl1> naw, they will or they won't, what we do has little effect
1197 2011-10-25 20:45:56 <cjdelisl1> bitcoin is also an interesting information transfer medium
1198 2011-10-25 20:46:14 <cjdelisl1> kind of like irc except more decentalized
1199 2011-10-25 20:46:37 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1200 2011-10-25 20:47:57 <gmaxwell> cjdelisl1: the only problem with getting government funding is finding the secret formula.
1201 2011-10-25 20:48:13 <graingert> ...
1202 2011-10-25 20:48:24 <gmaxwell> cjdelisl1: e.g. Tor knows how to get government funding.. but it's very hard if you haven't figured out the right places to ask and the right story to tel.
1203 2011-10-25 20:48:27 <gmaxwell> er tell.
1204 2011-10-25 20:49:34 <nanotube> phantomcircuit: indeed
1205 2011-10-25 20:49:41 <gmaxwell> For a nice comparison, Wikimedia has never been able to get a dollar of funding from the US federal government. Kinda funny compared to the millions tor has pulled in.
1206 2011-10-25 20:49:53 <nanotube> osmosis: indeed, the foundation would not necessarily be tied to any particular client implementation.
1207 2011-10-25 20:50:14 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: a 501c(6) organization was created a month or two ago, there just hasn't been anybody who actually knows about forming Foundations to make it happen.  It is happening now because we found somebody who will help who DOES know about creating Foundations....
1208 2011-10-25 20:50:58 <cjdelisl1> gmaxwell: you and I both know why tor is so much loved
1209 2011-10-25 20:51:26 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, ah well if that was the problem i could have found someone
1210 2011-10-25 20:51:29 <gmaxwell> Well, ideed, but a good part of that is that tor knew the right people to ask for money and the right story to tell them.
1211 2011-10-25 20:51:54 <phantomcircuit> although they would mostly know about 501c3's
1212 2011-10-25 20:52:11 <cjdelisl1> gmaxwell: http://www.reddit.com/comments/e8410/significance_of_sidebar_pic/
1213 2011-10-25 20:52:16 <phantomcircuit> er
1214 2011-10-25 20:52:22 <gmaxwell> If the bitcoin foundation can find a supporter in the CIA and convince them that they can use bitcoin to destabalize dictatorships they'd give bitcoin millions too. ;)
1215 2011-10-25 20:52:33 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: don't tempt me...
1216 2011-10-25 20:53:09 <gavinandresen> (to everybody else:  KIDDING!  I don't want another 200+ gavin-and-the-cia thread on the forums...)
1217 2011-10-25 20:53:15 <gmaxwell> Well, tor has used this big tent story with amazing effectiveness. I think it applies to bitcoin too, and we totally should use it.
1218 2011-10-25 20:53:32 <cjdelisl1> /nod
1219 2011-10-25 20:53:46 <gmaxwell> For tor they point out that an anonymity system with only one kind of user is useless.  E.g. "I don't know who you are, but since you're coming from fed-net I'm not letting you see my goods"
1220 2011-10-25 20:54:15 <cjdelisl1> or because you're *going* to fednet I know you're a fed
1221 2011-10-25 20:54:19 <gmaxwell> So it's important for all tor users that there are as many kinds of tor users as possible, you want your enemies to use tor too (though you hope you're much more effective in your use of it)
1222 2011-10-25 20:55:00 <gmaxwell> So you can draw some of the same kinds of parallels with bitcoin. Different parties get different things out of it, and you don't want to be left behind.
1223 2011-10-25 20:56:26 t3a has joined
1224 2011-10-25 20:56:40 <cjdelisl1> also depends on whether or not bitcoin is secure
1225 2011-10-25 20:57:23 <cjdelisl1> when the fbi backdoors show up the darpa people wander off whistling innocently
1226 2011-10-25 20:57:36 <gmaxwell> Well, I think bitcoin is far too small to make the too big to fail argument yet. But if it grows then presumably a failure of bitcoin would be economically disruptive and worth avoiding even to parties that don't like bitcoin much.
1227 2011-10-25 20:58:30 <gmaxwell> cjdelisl1: fortunately a good contact knows that you're not going to add backdoors for them.  They're satisfied if you teach them about the 'weaknesses' and common user failures that you can't fix.
1228 2011-10-25 20:58:45 wasabi1 has joined
1229 2011-10-25 20:59:03 * cjdelisl1 recalls the fbi/ipsec scandal
1230 2011-10-25 20:59:18 <cjdelisl1> but then the fbi was never that good at subtlety
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1234 2011-10-25 21:02:29 <gmaxwell> yea, domestic law enforcement is crass and full of hotheads.
1235 2011-10-25 21:05:25 <chmod755> https://www.diasporafoundation.org/donate << I like the Bitcoin tab here :)
1236 2011-10-25 21:05:41 <cjdelisl1> cia likes tracking money
1237 2011-10-25 21:05:48 <cjdelisl1> bitcoin allows that
1238 2011-10-25 21:05:55 <cjdelisl1> *coin may not
1239 2011-10-25 21:06:26 <BlueMatt> chmod755: Ive seen a couple nice bitcoin donation tabs on various websites (none of which are fully legal, but...)
1240 2011-10-25 21:07:18 <cjdelisl1> why not legal? are you talking about it as a charitable contribution or a gift?
1241 2011-10-25 21:07:26 <BlueMatt> torrent sites
1242 2011-10-25 21:07:31 <cjdelisl1> oh haha
1243 2011-10-25 21:07:51 <cjdelisl1> bt is legal technology
1244 2011-10-25 21:08:00 <chmod755> does silkroad accept donations? lol
1245 2011-10-25 21:08:22 <cjdelisl1> to blame bittorrent for copyright violations would be like blaming bitcoin for drugs
1246 2011-10-25 21:08:30 * neofutur donate to diaspora
1247 2011-10-25 21:09:05 <BlueMatt> cjdelisl1: ok torrent sites specifically geared to illegal activities, happy?
1248 2011-10-25 21:09:08 <cjdelisl1> an interesting analogy on a few levels since sharing information is little more dangerous than smoking weed.
1249 2011-10-25 21:12:07 <rasengan> tokyotosho has a bitcoin donate too on the donate page ;o
1250 2011-10-25 21:13:22 <gmaxwell> I was talking to someone from the FSF earlier, and they recently had someone ask for a reciept for a bitcoin donation. (they're not setup for that — they use a single drop account, and have a notice that they can't provide receipts)
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1262 2011-10-25 21:19:40 Levino has joined
1263 2011-10-25 21:19:44 <Levino> hi guys
1264 2011-10-25 21:20:07 <Levino> i have a problem on ubuntu 11.10: when i start bitcoind it starts, but the terminal is hung up
1265 2011-10-25 21:20:10 nathan7 has joined
1266 2011-10-25 21:20:20 <Levino> i can kill with ctrl+c or log off but bitcoind dies
1267 2011-10-25 21:20:28 <Levino> wanted to run it as a daemon
1268 2011-10-25 21:21:19 <btc_buddy> used -daemon ?
1269 2011-10-25 21:21:54 <Levino> yes
1270 2011-10-25 21:21:56 <Levino> does not change
1271 2011-10-25 21:22:22 <Levino> oh
1272 2011-10-25 21:22:27 <Levino> maybe i had a typo
1273 2011-10-25 21:22:30 <Levino> seems to be working now
1274 2011-10-25 21:22:33 <Levino> :)
1275 2011-10-25 21:22:34 <Levino> thx
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1280 2011-10-25 21:24:57 <gmaxwell> darn -daemon key.. miss it every time. ;)
1281 2011-10-25 21:26:23 <Levino> hm
1282 2011-10-25 21:26:32 <Levino> is there a goog init.d/script?
1283 2011-10-25 21:26:34 <Levino> good
1284 2011-10-25 21:26:43 <Levino> the one i've got seems to have issues
1285 2011-10-25 21:31:27 iocor has joined
1286 2011-10-25 21:37:16 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1287 2011-10-25 21:38:17 <neofutur> Levino: in the gentoo overlay for bitcoin there is everything includint a good init.d script ;)
1288 2011-10-25 21:38:22 <neofutur> bitcoin is easy on gentoo
1289 2011-10-25 21:38:32 <neofutur> thanks again luke-jr|otg
1290 2011-10-25 21:38:50 djdexter has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1291 2011-10-25 21:38:58 <neofutur> ( https://gitorious.org/bitcoin/gentoo )
1292 2011-10-25 21:39:06 tower has joined
1293 2011-10-25 21:40:32 TheZimm has joined
1294 2011-10-25 21:40:58 <neofutur> https://gitorious.org/bitcoin/gentoo/blobs/master/net-p2p/bitcoind/files/bitcoin.initd
1295 2011-10-25 21:46:35 <Levino> neofutur can i just use this under ubuntu?
1296 2011-10-25 21:46:40 erus` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1297 2011-10-25 21:48:34 copumpki_ has joined
1298 2011-10-25 21:48:55 <neofutur> probably not as is
1299 2011-10-25 21:49:05 <Levino> kk
1300 2011-10-25 21:49:07 Beremat has joined
1301 2011-10-25 21:49:11 <Levino> going to check this out tomorrow
1302 2011-10-25 21:49:12 <Levino> thx
1303 2011-10-25 21:49:35 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
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1305 2011-10-25 21:51:33 <graingert> ;;later tell Levino ubuntu is all about upstart these days
1306 2011-10-25 21:51:33 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
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1317 2011-10-25 22:26:59 <[Tycho]> Oh, casascius' spam is a disappointment.
1318 2011-10-25 22:27:36 <rjk2> not really
1319 2011-10-25 22:28:15 <rjk2> assume someone stole your pool's identity and created a fake website in your name, what would you do?
1320 2011-10-25 22:28:26 <gjs278> not draw attention to it
1321 2011-10-25 22:28:33 <gjs278> post a notice on my site saying to ignore it
1322 2011-10-25 22:28:40 <gjs278> one of those two
1323 2011-10-25 22:29:28 <rjk2> even though the perp has been emailing everyone with the fake site?
1324 2011-10-25 22:30:32 ThomasV has joined
1325 2011-10-25 22:33:15 <gjs278> I didn't get the original emial
1326 2011-10-25 22:33:32 <gjs278> so all I got was something warning me about this email I never received and then told me I should buy some coins
1327 2011-10-25 22:33:39 topace has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1328 2011-10-25 22:33:47 <[Tycho]> I have HTTPS, so users can always see if it's original site or not.
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1332 2011-10-25 22:35:06 <rjk2> hm ok i didn't get it and didn't know it had a prompt to buy coins
1333 2011-10-25 22:35:12 <rjk2> thats part isnt cool
1334 2011-10-25 22:35:28 <gjs278> http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/5297/screenshotis.png
1335 2011-10-25 22:35:37 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1337 2011-10-25 22:36:33 <gjs278> it's half warning, half hey I bet you never knew you could buy these physical coins
1338 2011-10-25 22:36:50 <rjk2> not really but whatever
1339 2011-10-25 22:37:12 <gmaxwell> huh? it's not.
1340 2011-10-25 22:37:17 <gmaxwell> Did you see the phishing email?
1341 2011-10-25 22:37:22 <gjs278> no
1342 2011-10-25 22:37:25 <gjs278> I didnt get it
1343 2011-10-25 22:37:27 <gmaxwell> I don't see what else he really could have said there.
1344 2011-10-25 22:37:31 <gjs278> nothing
1345 2011-10-25 22:37:32 <cjdelisl1> I guess there was a real phishing mail, chmod pasted it
1346 2011-10-25 22:37:48 <[Tycho]> I got two of those warnings for each hacked mtgox accounts.
1347 2011-10-25 22:38:10 <cjdelisl1> that said, it's a surprisingly effective way to spam
1348 2011-10-25 22:38:57 <gmaxwell> yes, lots of people got it. Here is a screenshot of it http://snapplr.com/3z5k
1349 2011-10-25 22:39:26 tomat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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1351 2011-10-25 22:39:32 <cjdelisl1> hmm
1352 2011-10-25 22:39:41 <cjdelisl1> spam by phishing yourself?
1353 2011-10-25 22:39:47 <cjdelisl1> sounds effective
1354 2011-10-25 22:40:00 <gjs278> heh
1355 2011-10-25 22:40:17 <rjk2> >phishing yourself ... wtf sounds like tinfoil
1356 2011-10-25 22:40:26 <cjdelisl1> and if you catch anyone, you get orders THAT YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO FILL
1357 2011-10-25 22:41:27 <gmaxwell> Btw, the phising has claimed 33.64 BTC. :(
1358 2011-10-25 22:41:49 <gmaxwell> https://blockexplorer.com/address/1GHRsryckBsSfKgv6zbun5egbxq8GCT8f1
1359 2011-10-25 22:46:02 <cjdelisl1> casacus.net is hosted in russia
1360 2011-10-25 22:46:15 <cjdelisl1> cactuses.com is hosted on a comcast business line
1361 2011-10-25 22:46:28 <upb> that domain doesnt even eist
1362 2011-10-25 22:46:31 <upb> casacus.net
1363 2011-10-25 22:47:07 <upb> hmm ?
1364 2011-10-25 22:47:11 <upb> 101.35.87.208.in-addr.arpa      name = 208-87-35-101.securehost.com.
1365 2011-10-25 22:47:36 <cjdelisl1> http://casascius.net/
1366 2011-10-25 22:47:46 <cjdelisl1> ^phishing site
1367 2011-10-25 22:47:49 <gmaxwell> cjdelisl1: gah, don't share the url without breaking it!
1368 2011-10-25 22:47:55 <rjk2> oh snap!
1369 2011-10-25 22:48:07 <cjdelisl1> you can help me do my buisness well even if donate some penny. Thanks!
1370 2011-10-25 22:48:12 <cjdelisl1> cmon guys
1371 2011-10-25 22:48:34 <gmaxwell> cjdelisl1: no one has paid that, but someone did pay the address it gives you if you make an order.
1372 2011-10-25 22:48:44 <cjdelisl1> plz look for bad english when doing business with people who claim to be American.
1373 2011-10-25 22:49:12 <CIA-101> libbitcoin: genjix * rd27a75c6681b / (6 files in 4 dirs): get_balance of a bitcoin address.
1374 2011-10-25 22:49:23 <gmaxwell> cjdelisl1: hey, who says americans are competent with english??
1375 2011-10-25 22:50:25 tomat has joined
1376 2011-10-25 22:52:53 <cjdelisl1> I was talking abut spam earlier
1377 2011-10-25 22:53:01 <cjdelisl1> and the reason why spam persists
1378 2011-10-25 22:53:27 <cjdelisl1> because people continue to click on links in unsolicited email
1379 2011-10-25 22:54:32 <gmaxwell> Heck, I wouldn't have known that email was unsolicited... since I quite possibly would have signed up for news from his site.
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1382 2011-10-25 22:58:31 <cjdelisl1> haha that's cute
1383 2011-10-25 22:58:45 <cjdelisl1> no ajax request at all
1384 2011-10-25 22:58:59 <cjdelisl1> it just makes up a random number and it's like "here's your order number"
1385 2011-10-25 22:59:13 <gmaxwell> hah
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1410 2011-10-25 23:54:00 <graingert> gmaxwell: probably the guy accidentally used his address to receive coins
1411 2011-10-25 23:55:15 <gmaxwell> hm? the bad guy? I don't think it was an accident that he got someone to send him coins!
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1413 2011-10-25 23:56:13 <graingert> gmaxwell: why isn't it for an amount used on the site?