1 2011-10-26 00:00:47 <gmaxwell> graingert: I'd assumed it was for some number of 1 btc coins plus the fees, but I didn't add it up.
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  23 2011-10-26 00:41:28 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: were you going to tag rc2?
  24 2011-10-26 00:41:31 <elkingrey> Okay, so I installed bitcoind on my server so that my store will give each new customer their own bitcoin address to send payment to. I can get the server working, and subsequently the store working properly, when I go to ~/.bitcoin and issue the command bitcoind -conf=bitcoin.conf but the problem is that when I exit my shell access to my server it kills the operation of the bitcoind server and thus prevents my store from w
  25 2011-10-26 00:41:32 <elkingrey> orking. Can somebody help me fix this problem?
  26 2011-10-26 00:42:04 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: not until I get a Windows build working and update the doc/build-msw.txt file
  27 2011-10-26 00:42:16 <BlueMatt> ah
  28 2011-10-26 00:43:32 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: I'm about to give up for tonight and start fresh tomorrow, probably with a fresh AWS instance (I think I've manage to get 3 versions of mingw installed which seems to be screwing things up)
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  30 2011-10-26 00:44:03 <BlueMatt> have you taken a look at my (slightly outdated, but should still work fine) instructions?
  31 2011-10-26 00:44:41 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: I don't know-- are your instructions doc/build-msw.txt ?
  32 2011-10-26 00:45:08 <BlueMatt> no, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5851.msg86700#msg86700
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  34 2011-10-26 00:45:30 <BlueMatt> though it has wx stuff in it, but the boost stuff, etc is all relevant
  35 2011-10-26 00:45:33 elkingrey has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  36 2011-10-26 00:45:42 <BlueMatt> and qt shouldnt be hard (right?)
  37 2011-10-26 00:46:03 <BlueMatt> also, I now have a working bitcoin ppa that has 0.5 rc1+git
  38 2011-10-26 00:46:05 <gavinandresen> mmm.  I'm trying to get the same versions of everything on all platforms....
  39 2011-10-26 00:46:22 <BlueMatt> oh, well last I did anything anything higher than boost1.43 never worked
  40 2011-10-26 00:46:25 <BlueMatt> even xcompiling
  41 2011-10-26 00:46:27 <gavinandresen> (so boost 1.47, openssl1.0.0e, db4.8 ...)
  42 2011-10-26 00:46:50 <BlueMatt> db4.8 and openssl1.0.0e the instructions still work as put on there
  43 2011-10-26 00:47:26 <gavinandresen> I don't believe you. db4.8 had to modify the db.h file to workaround a typedef error....
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  45 2011-10-26 00:47:38 <BlueMatt> hm, never seen that before...
  46 2011-10-26 00:48:06 <BlueMatt> honestly, its no doubt easier to xcompile from fedora or gentoo
  47 2011-10-26 00:48:23 <BlueMatt> 99% is just what the gitian scripts that I wrote do
  48 2011-10-26 00:48:32 <gavinandresen> Maybe I'll spin up an AWS fedora instance and give cross-compiling there a try
  49 2011-10-26 00:48:47 <BlueMatt> updated as every distro has a different prefix for the mingw suite of gcc...
  50 2011-10-26 00:49:00 <BlueMatt> but s/i586-mingw32msvc-/.../ and it should work...
  51 2011-10-26 00:49:04 <gavinandresen> (unless you want my eternal gratitude and feel like taking a crack at it....)
  52 2011-10-26 00:49:22 <BlueMatt> sorry, paper due tomorrow, but if you can wait till thurs I could probably take a look...
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  54 2011-10-26 00:50:29 <BlueMatt> and as soon as launchpad feels like building, this ppa works: https://launchpad.net/~bitcoin/+archive/bitcoin
  55 2011-10-26 00:50:51 <BlueMatt> (though dont publish that anywhere as its still half-controlled by a bunch of random people who signed up to join the bitcoin team...long story)
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  72 2011-10-26 01:18:45 <graingert> !later tell BlueMatt when is a oneiric build coming out?
  73 2011-10-26 01:19:01 wolfspraul has joined
  74 2011-10-26 01:19:07 <cjdelisl1> !ping
  75 2011-10-26 01:19:10 <cjdelisl1> ;;ping
  76 2011-10-26 01:19:10 <gribble> pong
  77 2011-10-26 01:19:26 <graingert> ;;later tell BlueMatt you realise that ppa link is published on a chat log?
  78 2011-10-26 01:19:27 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
  79 2011-10-26 01:19:34 <graingert> nanotube: why doesn't ! work here?
  80 2011-10-26 01:19:41 <imsaguy> only certain functions
  81 2011-10-26 01:19:44 <graingert> I much prefer it over ;;
  82 2011-10-26 01:20:08 <rjk2> yeah it seems like the bang is disabled only in -dev
  83 2011-10-26 01:20:51 <BlueMattBot> Yippie, build fixed!
  84 2011-10-26 01:20:52 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #77: FIXED in 21 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/77/
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  99 2011-10-26 01:51:33 <graingert> BlueMattBot: "No changes."
 100 2011-10-26 01:51:33 <BlueMattBot> graingert did you mean me? Unknown command 'No changes'
 101 2011-10-26 01:51:34 <BlueMattBot> Use 'BlueMattBot: DONT SPAM the Chan help' to get help!
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 248 2011-10-26 05:30:25 <osmosis> http://bitcoin.org/   says   Full announcement (including signatures)  , but when I click the link I dont see any signatures.
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 259 2011-10-26 05:39:22 <gmaxwell> osmosis: the mailing list archive appears to be hiding them.
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 261 2011-10-26 05:39:46 <gmaxwell> osmosis: if you go get the identical message posted to the forums you'll see the signatures on the bottom and you can attempt to validate them.
 262 2011-10-26 05:40:01 <gmaxwell> Though they're signed by gavin's key and I'm unable to find a link to his key from mine.
 263 2011-10-26 05:40:05 <Diablo-D3> "Seriously, five ancient sages of bitchdom all gathered together one day on the peaks of Mount Bitch to proclaim your birth, and a hundred years later, when all the bitch stars had aligned, you were born and made everybody's life around you a living hell because you are such a bitch!"
 264 2011-10-26 05:40:11 <gmaxwell> (much less a reasonably short one)
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 267 2011-10-26 05:42:25 <osmosis> gmaxwell, i see some keys included in the archive in the gitian dir
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 273 2011-10-26 05:51:50 <gmaxwell> osmosis: but the guy replacing the binary as you download it is replacing those too!
 274 2011-10-26 05:52:17 <osmosis> gmaxwell, right
 275 2011-10-26 05:52:46 <Diablo-D3> I should make that my forum sig
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 285 2011-10-26 06:19:41 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * 629f0f222c1d r169 /poolserverj-main/src/main/java/com/shadworld/poolserver/ (6 files in 3 dirs):
 286 2011-10-26 06:19:41 <CIA-101> poolserverj: support for partially stale shares. Where a single chain has advanced to the
 287 2011-10-26 06:19:41 <CIA-101> poolserverj: next block old work may still be valid for the other blocks. This patch checks
 288 2011-10-26 06:19:41 <CIA-101> poolserverj: that the work is valid for at least one block giving three possible outcomes.
 289 2011-10-26 06:19:41 <CIA-101> poolserverj: accepted, accepted partial-stale, stale
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 333 2011-10-26 07:12:13 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * 8e167caa2acd r170 /poolserverj-main/src/main/java/com/shadworld/poolserver/ (4 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
 334 2011-10-26 07:12:13 <CIA-101> poolserverj: longpoll passthru. To address the double longpoll issue.
 335 2011-10-26 07:12:13 <CIA-101> poolserverj: There is a fundamental design clash between longpolling and merged mining.
 336 2011-10-26 07:12:13 <CIA-101> poolserverj: Basically it works like this: When there is a double block change (i.e. btc and
 337 2011-10-26 07:12:14 <CIA-101> poolserverj: nmc solved by one solution) the daemons won't see the new block at exactly the
 338 2011-10-26 07:12:14 <CIA-101> poolserverj: same time. From what I've seen a delay of around a 1-2 seconds is not unusual.
 339 2011-10-26 07:12:14 <CIA-101> poolserverj: What happens then is that one chain advances to the next block. PSJ checks the
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 426 2011-10-26 09:24:07 <shadders> Is there any particular reason the diff target needs to be in coinbase?  Or the 04 prefix... or the length prefix for extraNonce?
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 431 2011-10-26 09:43:30 <nanotube> ;;later tell graingert ok ! works now in -dev. don't remember why i changed that for -dev in the first place. heh.
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 502 2011-10-26 11:13:35 <jav__> why do exchange APIs, like Tradehill's or the new API version from Mt.Gox, return price information and such as strings? .. is this accepted best practice? what's wrong with the JSON number type?
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 505 2011-10-26 11:17:47 <jav__> I see, the JSON specification doesn't specify the exact type of a JSON number... I guess that could be considered problematic
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 513 2011-10-26 11:28:39 <CIA-101> poolserverj: shadders * 44d705f11bc2 r171 /poolserverj-main/src/main/java/com/shadworld/poolserver/LongpollHandler.java: added trace message to indicate longpoll passthru has started/stopped
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 518 2011-10-26 11:38:16 <edcba> jav__: it's a javascript number afaik
 519 2011-10-26 11:39:58 <edcba> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSON#Data_types.2C_syntax_and_example
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 522 2011-10-26 11:40:56 <edcba> and since it's floating point it's very bad for money handling :)
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 525 2011-10-26 11:46:56 <jav__> edcba: If the objection is to floating point, then I'm not sure how a floating point number pretty-printed as a String changes much
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 529 2011-10-26 11:54:02 <upb> it changes because the client can choose how to interpret it
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 542 2011-10-26 12:12:01 <edcba> jav__: how do you know it's a floating point pretty printed ? :)
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 552 2011-10-26 12:23:47 <Eliel> I think we should identify these for bitcoin http://falkvinge.net/2011/03/22/the-swarms-activation-ladder/
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 558 2011-10-26 12:29:20 <CIA-101> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r254 /trunk/target: Remove javadocs from repo, they are available at javadoc.bitcoinj.org instead.
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 631 2011-10-26 14:46:58 <graingert> !later tell BlueMatt it might be better to have
 632 2011-10-26 14:46:58 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
 633 2011-10-26 14:47:02 <graingert> arse
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 635 2011-10-26 14:51:55 <graingert> !later tell BlueMatt it might be better to have a dev and release channel on https://launchpad.net/~bitcoin/+archive/bitcoin a little like the chrome PPA
 636 2011-10-26 14:51:56 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
 637 2011-10-26 14:52:50 <imsaguy2> I think !later needs an undo
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 639 2011-10-26 14:53:25 * graingert thinks it would be good if !arse was a alias for this undo command
 640 2011-10-26 14:53:50 * graingert thinks it would be good if !arse was an* alias for this undo command
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 687 2011-10-26 16:16:00 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: you know, I think I figured out what eligius problem is
 688 2011-10-26 16:16:07 <Diablo-D3> its deleting active works
 689 2011-10-26 16:16:22 <Diablo-D3> instead of doing it 120 seconds after being issued, it does it when the client gets another one
 690 2011-10-26 16:16:34 surikator has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 691 2011-10-26 16:16:37 <Diablo-D3> which is insane when clients frequently hold multiple works
 692 2011-10-26 16:17:09 <Diablo-D3> so, I think I can now conclude luke is a lying motherfucker and will rot in hell according to his own pedophiliac beliefs.
 693 2011-10-26 16:19:40 dbe has joined
 694 2011-10-26 16:19:48 <nejon> :D
 695 2011-10-26 16:21:29 <UukGoblin> what's this Scrypt and why is it faster on CPU than GPU?
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 699 2011-10-26 16:24:35 <necrodearia> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=41456.msg594335#msg594335
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 701 2011-10-26 16:25:10 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: No, it's not doing that— if it did that I'd have enormous reject rates on my cgminers with 12 threads.
 702 2011-10-26 16:25:12 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: it's a key deriv function that uses several (varying number of) rounds of salsa20/8 and some other fun stuff
 703 2011-10-26 16:25:36 <tcatm> necrodearia: see about page...
 704 2011-10-26 16:25:51 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: it uses a lot of ram and the work isn't parallizable, hence, gpus not very useful
 705 2011-10-26 16:26:06 <UukGoblin> jrmithdobbs, interesting, got a link or something?
 706 2011-10-26 16:26:25 <necrodearia> mm
 707 2011-10-26 16:26:27 <jrmithdobbs> http://www.tarsnap.com/scrypt.html
 708 2011-10-26 16:26:30 <UukGoblin> thanks
 709 2011-10-26 16:26:37 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: it certantly does it when clients get a long poll and have to switch work. It would be insane to award credit against old blocks.
 710 2011-10-26 16:26:40 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: basically it's bcrypt for the 21st century
 711 2011-10-26 16:27:10 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: though it's GPU hardness depends on it actually being configured to use enough memory to be hard on a gpu.
 712 2011-10-26 16:27:35 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: in part, salsa20 also isn't optimized on them
 713 2011-10-26 16:28:15 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: yes, but thats just a lack of engineering, not a practical limit AFAIK. You could have said the same thing about SHA256 a year ago. :)
 714 2011-10-26 16:28:31 <imsaguy2> gmaxwell, why are you running 12 threads?
 715 2011-10-26 16:28:36 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: fair enough ;p
 716 2011-10-26 16:28:56 <gmaxwell> imsaguy2: six gpus, two threads each.
 717 2011-10-26 16:29:02 <imsaguy2> ah, gotcha
 718 2011-10-26 16:29:18 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: but there's also no ready-made salsa20 circuits for asics either which there have been for sha2 for a while
 719 2011-10-26 16:29:28 <jrmithdobbs> but ya, still a matter of engineering
 720 2011-10-26 16:29:32 <tcatm> necrodearia: we have no easy way to credit those who help with translations since we are now using transifex. maybe you could figure out how to do that?
 721 2011-10-26 16:30:20 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: i'd have to go read the salsa20 paper again but i think there's some other things that make it unparallizable
 722 2011-10-26 16:30:24 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: indeed, but none of the ones for sha256 are all that exciting for mining.
 723 2011-10-26 16:30:28 <jrmithdobbs> or at least, hard to do
 724 2011-10-26 16:30:34 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: sha256 is also unparallizable.
 725 2011-10-26 16:31:03 <UukGoblin> yeah, it's just the case of needing to compute a lot of them
 726 2011-10-26 16:31:05 <gmaxwell> But for mining (or cracking) you create a pipeline and do 128 at once.
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 728 2011-10-26 16:31:19 <gmaxwell> But each instance is completely serial.
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 730 2011-10-26 16:31:24 <jrmithdobbs> right
 731 2011-10-26 16:31:35 <jrmithdobbs> and for mining you're only doing two rounds
 732 2011-10-26 16:32:05 <gmaxwell> You can't do that for scrypt because each instance needs a lot of fast memory attached... well, it does if you choose to use scrypt with a lot of memory.
 733 2011-10-26 16:32:30 <jrmithdobbs> even using the defaults in his provided utilities it slows it down to some extant
 734 2011-10-26 16:32:51 <jrmithdobbs> it uses between 256K-20M
 735 2011-10-26 16:32:53 storrgie has joined
 736 2011-10-26 16:33:21 <jrmithdobbs> (depending on availability in the generating system)
 737 2011-10-26 16:33:33 <gmaxwell> (I'm pointing out the memory thing because that claimed-gpu-hostile cryptocurency uses a rather small amount of memory in their scrypt IIRC way less than the scrypt defaults... perhaps it doesn't work well on current GPUs, but I'm skeptical that you couldn't still get nice speedups with e.g. fpgas)
 738 2011-10-26 16:33:58 <jrmithdobbs> there's a claimed gpu-hostile cryptocurrency?
 739 2011-10-26 16:34:24 <tcatm> necrodearia: oh and you can create pull requests for bitcoin.org. I think a page that explains how people can contribute (translations, code, help users, improve website) to the project with a section for credits might be useful.
 740 2011-10-26 16:34:30 <necrodearia> hmm?
 741 2011-10-26 16:34:52 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: hey if it leads to some nice fast salsa20 hw implementations that sounds great to me whether their tech choices re: mem size/etc are valid or not ;p
 742 2011-10-26 16:35:25 <necrodearia> tcatm, thanks for pointing out the about page.  I didn't notice it until after you pointed it out.  clumsy me...
 743 2011-10-26 16:35:54 `2Fast2BCn has quit (Excess Flood)
 744 2011-10-26 16:36:04 <necrodearia> although, that is a good idea. ^_^
 745 2011-10-26 16:36:07 pickett has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 746 2011-10-26 16:36:14 <tcatm> necrodearia: discussing "developers  vs. contributors" isn't going to get us anywhere, while pull requests that can easily be reviewed and merged if there is consensus will
 747 2011-10-26 16:36:21 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: what "other" currency are you referring to so I can go see how they're using scrypt exactly ;p
 748 2011-10-26 16:36:37 <epscy> tenebrix?
 749 2011-10-26 16:36:59 <gmaxwell> That.
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 752 2011-10-26 16:37:31 <gmaxwell> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49888.0  < someone posted on the forum complaining that they're losing inbound connections when their IP changes... another argument for UPNP renewals.
 753 2011-10-26 16:37:57 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: the upnp code doesn't renew?
 754 2011-10-26 16:38:06 <da2ce7> !topci
 755 2011-10-26 16:38:07 <gribble> Error: "topci" is not a valid command.
 756 2011-10-26 16:38:12 <da2ce7> !topic
 757 2011-10-26 16:38:12 <gribble> Main: http://bitcoin.org/ | Wiki: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/ | Latest version: 0.4 *OLD VERSIONS HARM THE NETWORK AND YOUR SECURITY* | Bitcoin Development - We're here to help develop the Bitcoin system. All related discussions are welcome. | If you have a question, simply ask and wait for a reply. | Main support/discussion chan #bitcoin | Public channel logs: bit.ly/iPFi3X
 758 2011-10-26 16:38:18 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: no. not ever.
 759 2011-10-26 16:38:39 <jrmithdobbs> interesting
 760 2011-10-26 16:38:45 <jrmithdobbs> never looked at the upnp code
 761 2011-10-26 16:38:57 <tcatm> gmaxwell: we debugged that problem last year and found it is caused by faulty routers; though reducing some timeouts within bitcoin might help
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 767 2011-10-26 16:44:03 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: so did art just s/SHA256/scrypt/g basically?
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 769 2011-10-26 16:47:59 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: ah, interesting, only in the POW stuff
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 797 2011-10-26 17:23:47 <BlueMatt> can I get a few testnet coins: mkzNHRa1eUjWXkJzzo7gvc2jexprFsSbzU ?
 798 2011-10-26 17:24:34 <rjk2> BlueMatt: https://testnet.freebitcoins.appspot.com/ will give you 500
 799 2011-10-26 17:24:41 storrgie has joined
 800 2011-10-26 17:24:54 <BlueMatt> yea, I just did that 1 sec after I wrote that...
 801 2011-10-26 17:24:58 <BlueMatt> damn forgetful me
 802 2011-10-26 17:25:49 <BlueMatt> although the faucet lags...
 803 2011-10-26 17:26:53 <rjk2> am I right when i say that theoretically you could run your own copy of blockexplorer (say on a local machine) just by having a good copy of the blockchain?
 804 2011-10-26 17:27:03 surikator has quit (Quit: Scientific discovery is just maximal compression of strings. Nothing more, nothing less.)
 805 2011-10-26 17:27:21 <BlueMatt> yes
 806 2011-10-26 17:27:40 <rjk2> are there any guides or any such somewhere?
 807 2011-10-26 17:27:42 <BlueMatt> in fact, iirc a few such programs exist
 808 2011-10-26 17:27:53 <rjk2> haven't been able to find much
 809 2011-10-26 17:28:00 <Eliel> I think we should identify these for bitcoin http://falkvinge.net/2011/03/22/the-swarms-activation-ladder/
 810 2011-10-26 17:28:07 <BlueMatt> bitcoin-js has one irrc
 811 2011-10-26 17:28:23 <BlueMatt> node-bitcoin-explorer
 812 2011-10-26 17:28:52 <Eliel> that is, to analyse what are the steps for becoming involved and what could be done to make them easier
 813 2011-10-26 17:29:17 <BlueMatt> arg testnet coins arent coming in, someone want to testnet mine for me?
 814 2011-10-26 17:29:32 <BlueMatt> (and maybe send again)
 815 2011-10-26 17:29:50 * nathan7 hops around
 816 2011-10-26 17:29:53 <nathan7> Hi, earthlings!
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 820 2011-10-26 17:46:58 <diki> Tbh, if bitcoin did not have the possibility of some attacks such as 51% etc...maybe it would have gotten more attention(ok, my true words would be succeeded)
 821 2011-10-26 17:47:18 <diki> I mean, once i know that weaknesses exist, it gets harder for me to accept something
 822 2011-10-26 17:47:34 <nathan7> That weakness can not be prevented.
 823 2011-10-26 17:47:52 <nathan7> But it is near-impossible to abuse.
 824 2011-10-26 17:47:55 <diki> Its bad that it can
 825 2011-10-26 17:48:01 <diki> but the point here is its possible
 826 2011-10-26 17:48:25 <[Tycho]> Everything has weaknesses.
 827 2011-10-26 17:48:43 <diki> Sure, but bitcoin is money
 828 2011-10-26 17:48:45 <[Tycho]> Paper money can be forged.
 829 2011-10-26 17:48:59 <diki> paper money can be forged, but there is no possible 51% attack
 830 2011-10-26 17:49:20 <diki> where suddently my paper money is just that...paper..wothless paper
 831 2011-10-26 17:49:31 <rjk2> oh really?
 832 2011-10-26 17:49:34 <[Tycho]> Actually it's possible.
 833 2011-10-26 17:49:39 <rjk2> see zimbabwew for an example
 834 2011-10-26 17:49:43 <[Tycho]> Happened many times.
 835 2011-10-26 17:49:43 <rjk2> zimbabwe*
 836 2011-10-26 17:49:52 <nathan7> diki: The 51% is the bank here.
 837 2011-10-26 17:50:04 <nathan7> And it's way over 51%.
 838 2011-10-26 17:50:12 <rjk2> 100%
 839 2011-10-26 17:50:32 <diki> while its possible paper money to go worthless, i dont like the idea of looking someday at my client and seeing everything invalidated
 840 2011-10-26 17:51:12 <[Tycho]> diki, you didn't read the wiki page about attacks.
 841 2011-10-26 17:51:36 <[Tycho]> No one can invalidate YOUR money. 51% attack mostly allows the attacker to reverse HIS transactions.
 842 2011-10-26 17:51:46 <[Tycho]> He can't control other people's wallets.
 843 2011-10-26 17:52:41 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: I threw a little hashing power at the testnet (70mhash), but will probably take an hour or two to find a block...
 844 2011-10-26 17:53:13 pwrcycle has joined
 845 2011-10-26 17:53:25 <[Tycho]> Oh, I'll need testcoins soon :))
 846 2011-10-26 17:53:51 <[Tycho]> But it will be easier to mine myself, I think.
 847 2011-10-26 17:55:23 <diki> why do you need testnet coins?
 848 2011-10-26 17:55:32 <diki> you've got a pool to get the real stuff from :D
 849 2011-10-26 17:56:09 <[Tycho]> Testcoins are needed for experiments and testing new funny stuff.
 850 2011-10-26 17:56:17 <rjk2> because he doesn't want to test with real money
 851 2011-10-26 17:56:45 ThomasV has joined
 852 2011-10-26 17:56:57 <[Tycho]> Otherwise I can either lose some money or make lots of people go "what the hell it was in the blockchain right now ?!"
 853 2011-10-26 17:57:04 <rjk2> makes me wonder though, how hard could it be to temporarily merged-mine on the testnet chain whenever you need a few confirmations
 854 2011-10-26 17:57:18 <diki> rjk2:bad
 855 2011-10-26 17:57:29 <rjk2> wat
 856 2011-10-26 17:57:37 <rjk2> just for like 10 minutes
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 858 2011-10-26 17:59:44 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: thanks, though for some reason I still dont see the faucet tx...
 859 2011-10-26 18:00:03 <BlueMatt> (though I was synced and on network at send time...)
 860 2011-10-26 18:00:15 <BlueMatt> (or does bitcoin-qt now not show unconfirmed txes?)
 861 2011-10-26 18:00:23 Disposition has joined
 862 2011-10-26 18:01:06 <gavinandresen> It should show unconfirmed transactions if you're caught up with the block-chain
 863 2011-10-26 18:01:15 <BlueMatt> odd...I am
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 865 2011-10-26 18:01:40 <BlueMatt> ah, bitcoin-qt doesnt think its caught up because the last block is hours ago
 866 2011-10-26 18:01:54 <gavinandresen> If somebody was messing with the testnet block chain it could've broken the faucet's wallet... I'll check
 867 2011-10-26 18:01:55 <BlueMatt> (still showing the syncing icon)
 868 2011-10-26 18:04:47 <gavinandresen> The testnet faucet has a bunch of 0-confirmation transactions: probably your transaction is part of the change for another 0-conf txn...
 869 2011-10-26 18:05:06 <gavinandresen> ... which your bitcoind didn't see, so it is an orphan (and orphans aren't shown)
 870 2011-10-26 18:05:19 <Eliel> rjk2: if testnet mode was changed to running with the namecoin modifications, it ought to be possible to mergemine it just the same as namecoin... at least that's how I see it.
 871 2011-10-26 18:06:25 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: m, makes sense
 872 2011-10-26 18:06:28 <rjk2> Eliel: yeah that's what I was thinking
 873 2011-10-26 18:06:42 <rjk2> so a pool oper could have a tickbox when he wanted a few confirms
 874 2011-10-26 18:06:47 <rjk2> but not leave it on too long
 875 2011-10-26 18:06:55 <rjk2> so it screws the difficulty
 876 2011-10-26 18:07:34 <Eliel> if you used the type of merged mining setup used at eligius, you could easily start/stop merged mining without affecting regular mining at all.
 877 2011-10-26 18:09:38 <ThomasV> is the wiki still down ?
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 879 2011-10-26 18:13:17 <gavinandresen> ThomasV: is for me
 880 2011-10-26 18:13:23 <ThomasV> hi gavin
 881 2011-10-26 18:13:25 <diki> very interesting
 882 2011-10-26 18:13:36 <diki> i launched bitcoin a few minutes ago and it is still not downloading blocks
 883 2011-10-26 18:13:44 zhoutong has joined
 884 2011-10-26 18:13:55 <diki> ...speak of the devil, i hate it when i take my time to write this and it starts downloading blocks
 885 2011-10-26 18:14:28 <diki> no wait, its not..i confused myself with the ixcoin client
 886 2011-10-26 18:15:17 <ThomasV> gavinandresen: I have another question. I figured out my keypairs are not working. if I import keypairs from my wallet, my transaction signing script works. if I use keypairs generated by myself, it does not work, even though the pubkeys seem to generate valid bitcoin addresses. any idea ?
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 888 2011-10-26 18:15:41 <gavinandresen> ThomasV: no idea.
 889 2011-10-26 18:16:31 <ThomasV> gavinandresen: are there special requirements on private keys, other than using secp256k1 ?
 890 2011-10-26 18:17:16 <gavinandresen> ThomasV: none that I know of.
 891 2011-10-26 18:17:24 <ThomasV> :-(
 892 2011-10-26 18:17:35 <gavinandresen> ... but I'm not an ECDSA expert by any stretch of the imagination
 893 2011-10-26 18:17:57 <ThomasV> is there someone else I should ask ?
 894 2011-10-26 18:18:14 <jrmithdobbs> ThomasV: how are you genn'ing the keys?
 895 2011-10-26 18:18:27 <jrmithdobbs> ThomasV: i'd bet you've got an endian issue
 896 2011-10-26 18:18:42 <jrmithdobbs> eg, flipping them when you shouldn't
 897 2011-10-26 18:18:48 <ThomasV> jrmithdobbs: I use python-ecdsa
 898 2011-10-26 18:18:55 <jrmithdobbs> ThomasV: link to code?
 899 2011-10-26 18:19:32 <ThomasV> jrmithdobbs: my script works well with keypairs that I import from an existing wallet, so I don't think it's an endian issue
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 901 2011-10-26 18:20:04 <jrmithdobbs> ThomasV: it could be on the generation step since that code wont get hit on import
 902 2011-10-26 18:20:10 <ThomasV> I can paste my code in pastebin if you are interested, one sec
 903 2011-10-26 18:20:25 <jrmithdobbs> ThomasV: are you importing both public and private keys? what happens if you rearrange your code so it only imports the private key and re-gens the pubkey?
 904 2011-10-26 18:20:26 <ThomasV> jrmithdobbs: yes that's what I suspect
 905 2011-10-26 18:21:02 <jrmithdobbs> ThomasV: i bet you're flipping the pubkey after generation or flipping the privkey before or similar
 906 2011-10-26 18:21:16 <jrmithdobbs> i had headaches with that shit and openssl, i know
 907 2011-10-26 18:21:16 <ThomasV> how so ?
 908 2011-10-26 18:21:32 <ThomasV> moment..
 909 2011-10-26 18:21:38 <jrmithdobbs> ThomasV: paste the code somewhere ;p
 910 2011-10-26 18:21:48 <jrmithdobbs> ThomasV: i suck re: python though
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 912 2011-10-26 18:23:51 <ThomasV> you want the whole file, or just the part the generates the keys ?
 913 2011-10-26 18:24:49 * jgarzik wonders how phantomcircuit's alt client is coming along
 914 2011-10-26 18:25:10 * jgarzik was thinking a mining-specific client would be fun
 915 2011-10-26 18:25:25 <ThomasV> jrmithdobbs: http://pastebin.com/gmyEhyqL
 916 2011-10-26 18:25:28 <jrmithdobbs> ThomasV: the import and generating code should be enough
 917 2011-10-26 18:25:51 <ThomasV> oh the import was me copy pasting keys from pywallet --dump
 918 2011-10-26 18:26:50 <jrmithdobbs> ThomasV: what are the use or whatever statements for the libraries that uses?
 919 2011-10-26 18:27:08 <ThomasV> it uses python-ecdsa
 920 2011-10-26 18:28:02 <ThomasV> and pywallet too, byt that is mostly for debugging; I don't really need it
 921 2011-10-26 18:28:14 <ThomasV> *but*
 922 2011-10-26 18:28:24 <jrmithdobbs> ThomasV: what's SecretToASecret?
 923 2011-10-26 18:29:33 <ThomasV> it's in pywallet, it converts to base58
 924 2011-10-26 18:30:04 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 925 2011-10-26 18:30:29 <ThomasV> in that piece of code I generate the bitcoin address from secexp, and I save sec and the address
 926 2011-10-26 18:30:36 <jrmithdobbs> ThomasV: my first guess is that pywallet.public_key_to_bc_address is the culprit
 927 2011-10-26 18:30:40 urstroyer has left ()
 928 2011-10-26 18:31:05 <ThomasV> huh?
 929 2011-10-26 18:31:11 <jrmithdobbs> ThomasV: can you check whether that's swapping endianness? I bet it's expecting a LE value when it's already BE
 930 2011-10-26 18:31:49 <jrmithdobbs> as in, you're genning a valid address, it just doesn't relate to the key you think it does
 931 2011-10-26 18:33:14 <ThomasV> yes I understand what you mean, but I don't think it's trhe case
 932 2011-10-26 18:33:47 <jrmithdobbs> ThomasV: see if it works if you reverse the string you generate in that call
 933 2011-10-26 18:34:05 <jrmithdobbs> easy enough to test ;p
 934 2011-10-26 18:34:54 <jrmithdobbs> because your usage of python-ecdsa looks correct afaict
 935 2011-10-26 18:34:54 <ThomasV> I have several instances of     assert addr == pywallet.public_key_to_bc_address( chr(4) + public_key.to_string() )
 936 2011-10-26 18:35:08 <ThomasV> and they all pass
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 938 2011-10-26 18:35:29 <ThomasV> but let me add one at the generation step...
 939 2011-10-26 18:36:02 <jrmithdobbs> ThomasV: that code's too simple for it to really be anything else but something reversing order you're not expecting
 940 2011-10-26 18:40:33 <jrmithdobbs> ThomasV: i see the problem
 941 2011-10-26 18:40:39 <ThomasV> yes?
 942 2011-10-26 18:40:43 <jrmithdobbs> ThomasV: you know pywallet isn't expecting a hex string, right?
 943 2011-10-26 18:40:51 <ThomasV> for what?
 944 2011-10-26 18:40:55 <jrmithdobbs> it's actually expecting an unsigned char array
 945 2011-10-26 18:41:04 <jrmithdobbs> for public_key_to_bc_address()
 946 2011-10-26 18:41:19 <jrmithdobbs> and hash_160() and b58encode()
 947 2011-10-26 18:41:46 <ThomasV> I didn't know
 948 2011-10-26 18:41:57 <jrmithdobbs> ya that's going to be the problem
 949 2011-10-26 18:42:10 <jrmithdobbs> you're giving it an ascii hex string when it's expecting binary values
 950 2011-10-26 18:42:17 <ThomasV> hmm, thanks
 951 2011-10-26 18:42:30 <jrmithdobbs> look at line 338ish of https://github.com/jackjack-jj/pywallet/blob/master/pywallet.py
 952 2011-10-26 18:42:40 <jrmithdobbs> the pywallet code pretty clearly says what it's expecting
 953 2011-10-26 18:42:59 <jrmithdobbs> """ encode v, which is a string of bytes, to base58.
 954 2011-10-26 18:43:20 <jrmithdobbs> implying that things up the call stack are probably expecting the same, the docs are a bit lacking there, heh
 955 2011-10-26 18:44:02 <ThomasV> indeed :-)
 956 2011-10-26 18:44:33 molecular has joined
 957 2011-10-26 18:44:59 <ThomasV> heh, I lost 1 bitcent that I sent to that address :-)
 958 2011-10-26 18:48:35 <Diablo-D3> [12:13:48] <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: it certantly does it when clients get a long poll and have to switch work. It would be insane to award credit against old blocks.
 959 2011-10-26 18:48:37 <Diablo-D3> nope, its not that
 960 2011-10-26 18:48:54 <Diablo-D3> DM dosent send works in on dead works, infact LP explicitly empties the queue
 961 2011-10-26 18:49:01 <Diablo-D3> only ones already in process would slip through
 962 2011-10-26 18:49:19 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: but thus far 6322 good, 63 bad
 963 2011-10-26 18:49:38 <Diablo-D3> or 0.67%
 964 2011-10-26 18:49:41 <Diablo-D3> which is insane
 965 2011-10-26 18:50:50 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: hell, its rejected shares from works less than a second old and no LP has happened
 966 2011-10-26 18:51:19 <ThomasV> jrmithdobbs: no, it's not that
 967 2011-10-26 18:51:21 <Diablo-D3> if its not doing what I said, its just forgetting to record works
 968 2011-10-26 18:51:23 <Diablo-D3> which is just as bad
 969 2011-10-26 18:51:29 <Diablo-D3> Im going to bed, night all
 970 2011-10-26 18:51:40 <jrmithdobbs> ThomasV: oh ya?
 971 2011-10-26 18:51:45 <ThomasV> jrmithdobbs: the assert statement would fail
 972 2011-10-26 18:52:00 <ThomasV> I check that I get the same address back from the priv key
 973 2011-10-26 18:52:30 <jrmithdobbs> what's the assert?
 974 2011-10-26 18:53:03 <ThomasV> assert original_address == pywallet.public_key_to_bc_address( chr(4) + public_key.to_string() )
 975 2011-10-26 18:53:27 <ThomasV> where public_key is derived from private key
 976 2011-10-26 18:53:49 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: does a LP happen shortly after?
 977 2011-10-26 18:54:31 <jrmithdobbs> ThomasV: what's original_address derived from?
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 979 2011-10-26 18:55:23 <ThomasV> in the case of imported keys, it is derived from the bitcoin wallet with pywallet --dump
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 981 2011-10-26 18:55:40 <jrmithdobbs> ThomasV: because if you're setting original_address the same way as in the generation code they'll still match
 982 2011-10-26 18:55:42 <ThomasV> the assert passes with both my keys and the imported keys
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 984 2011-10-26 18:55:57 <ThomasV> yes, but it passes both
 985 2011-10-26 18:56:01 <jrmithdobbs> ah
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 987 2011-10-26 18:56:53 <jrmithdobbs> ThomasV: debugger time tbqh
 988 2011-10-26 18:57:03 <ThomasV> heh
 989 2011-10-26 18:57:06 <ThomasV> thanks anyway
 990 2011-10-26 18:57:47 <jrmithdobbs> ThomasV: i'd still see what happens if you plug one of the imported private keys into the generation code and just skip the random number step and see if it generates the expected public key
 991 2011-10-26 18:58:22 <ThomasV> that's exactly what I did with the assert
 992 2011-10-26 18:59:51 <ThomasV> jrmithdobbs: http://pastebin.com/DcgrMA6E
 993 2011-10-26 18:59:52 Sedra has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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 995 2011-10-26 19:01:00 <jrmithdobbs> ThomasV: crazy
 996 2011-10-26 19:01:09 merde has joined
 997 2011-10-26 19:01:49 <ThomasV> jrmithdobbs: I thought that there was some other constraint on the secret number, that I missed
 998 2011-10-26 19:02:04 halmug has quit ()
 999 2011-10-26 19:02:15 <jrmithdobbs> ThomasV: no all the weirdness is in the encoding for storage/display
1000 2011-10-26 19:02:32 <ThomasV> ok
1001 2011-10-26 19:02:51 <jrmithdobbs> i'm intriguied but can't be arsed to install python 2.7.2
1002 2011-10-26 19:02:53 <jrmithdobbs> heh
1003 2011-10-26 19:05:38 wasabi has joined
1004 2011-10-26 19:06:12 <diki> w00t bitcoin's got 80 connections
1005 2011-10-26 19:06:14 <diki> me like
1006 2011-10-26 19:07:46 Clipse has joined
1007 2011-10-26 19:08:09 <jrmithdobbs> pansy
1008 2011-10-26 19:08:11 <jrmithdobbs>     "connections" : 512,
1009 2011-10-26 19:08:17 <ThomasV> anyway, time to eat
1010 2011-10-26 19:08:19 <ThomasV> bbl
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1016 2011-10-26 19:10:54 BlueMatt has joined
1017 2011-10-26 19:11:09 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: I need rc2 so that I can properly name my debian packages...
1018 2011-10-26 19:11:35 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: also, it looks like Ive got pretty solid packages, will you link to the ppa when 0.5 comes out (and maybe link in 0.5rc2 release announcement for testing?)
1019 2011-10-26 19:12:20 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: grumble grumble... I really wanted the how-to-build-on-windows-and-mac instructions to be correct for rc2...
1020 2011-10-26 19:12:26 pumpkin has joined
1021 2011-10-26 19:12:37 <BlueMatt> heh, I was just complaining
1022 2011-10-26 19:12:45 <BlueMatt> you dont have to, it really can wait
1023 2011-10-26 19:13:36 <gavinandresen> RE: linking to the ppa:  I don't know nuthin about ppa's, but if you write up something and it's ok with jgarzik I have no problem including it in release notes.
1024 2011-10-26 19:14:01 <BlueMatt> all that would need be done is (maybe) link to https://launchpad.net/~bitcoin/+archive/bitcoin and tell people to execute: sudo apt-add-repository ppa:bitcoin/bitcoin
1025 2011-10-26 19:14:26 <BlueMatt> (though bitcoin package is currently broken until I can reupload...)
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1027 2011-10-26 19:14:44 <gavinandresen> What is the trust model for that?  Have to trust the ppa package maintainers and whoever controls launchpad.net?
1028 2011-10-26 19:14:53 <BlueMatt> yes and yes
1029 2011-10-26 19:15:03 <BlueMatt> 1st being me (and others if they are added to the team)
1030 2011-10-26 19:15:06 <gavinandresen> Ok, thanks.
1031 2011-10-26 19:15:14 <gavinandresen> (I trust you, by the way...)
1032 2011-10-26 19:15:15 <BlueMatt> launchpad being canonical (the makers of ubuntu)
1033 2011-10-26 19:15:52 <BlueMatt> so Id say theve got a good level of trust... (not that it wouldnt be better to do gitian-style stuff, but os-standard is the way to go IMO)
1034 2011-10-26 19:15:56 pumpkin is now known as copumpkin
1035 2011-10-26 19:16:13 <BlueMatt> (that said, Id of course like to see bitcoin released on win32 via gitian, and updated the same)
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1037 2011-10-26 19:16:32 <BlueMatt> (osx, maybe you could submit to app store, not like it would get accepted, but its worth a shot...)
1038 2011-10-26 19:16:53 <gavinandresen> agreed.  By the way:  I was very close to successfully building in a Windows AWS instance, but ran into a pthread issue compiling bitcoin that stumped me
1039 2011-10-26 19:17:08 <diki> gavinandresen:amazon ec2?
1040 2011-10-26 19:18:03 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: and, for the record, I would prefer to have you at least control the group and launchpad account, even if you dont have the time/effort to do the actual package uploads
1041 2011-10-26 19:18:22 <gavinandresen> diki: yes
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1059 2011-10-26 20:09:00 <diki> the windows instance is expensive
1060 2011-10-26 20:09:13 <diki> and considering you want to setup a build environment
1061 2011-10-26 20:10:23 amiller has joined
1062 2011-10-26 20:11:24 <diki> My VS Studio environment is somehow screwed
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1064 2011-10-26 20:11:33 <diki> I was able to compile curl once, now i get tons of errors
1065 2011-10-26 20:11:36 <rjk2> get a linux instance, install virtualbox, install windows ??? profit :P
1066 2011-10-26 20:11:36 iocor has joined
1067 2011-10-26 20:11:44 <rjk2> although slow as hell
1068 2011-10-26 20:11:47 agricocb has joined
1069 2011-10-26 20:11:50 <diki> isnt that...a hassle>
1070 2011-10-26 20:11:59 <rjk2> </sarcasm>
1071 2011-10-26 20:12:00 copumpkin is now known as controversipumpk
1072 2011-10-26 20:12:00 <diki> cause initially you need to ssh to the machine
1073 2011-10-26 20:12:08 controversipumpk is now known as copumpkin
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1075 2011-10-26 20:13:53 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, BlueMatt: that sounds like a good ppa setup
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1078 2011-10-26 20:18:07 <diki> jgarzik
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1080 2011-10-26 20:18:39 <diki> Can you tell me in your 4way algo in minerd, where exactly is the nonce increased..i saw no ++ variable or +=X or something
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1085 2011-10-26 20:33:52 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-exit: Stefan Thomas master * r85d860c / package.json : Added buffertools to package.json. - http://git.io/jnVFbg
1086 2011-10-26 20:35:30 <CIA-101> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-exit: Stefan Thomas master * r0fe2369 / package.json : Added "extend" dependency to package.json. - http://git.io/p-iMZw
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1115 2011-10-26 21:50:03 <ThomasV> jrmithdobbs: the problem is not caused by my key generation...
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1125 2011-10-26 22:23:30 <CIA-101> libbitcoin: genjix * r5a5abb36f86b / (7 files in 5 dirs): base58_encode/decode(...). Borried heavily from bitcointools and Satoshi bitcoin (thanks)
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1155 2011-10-26 23:24:34 <Davincij15> Hello? Is anyone here I have a question about the bitcoin.conf file...
1156 2011-10-26 23:24:48 ThomasV has joined
1157 2011-10-26 23:24:48 <Davincij15> Is there away to use connect=dnsname.com
1158 2011-10-26 23:25:06 <Davincij15> Instead of an IP?
1159 2011-10-26 23:27:33 marf_away has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1160 2011-10-26 23:28:09 <tcatm> Davincij15: yes, there's a -dns switch
1161 2011-10-26 23:31:00 <diki> the bitcoin wiki is down
1162 2011-10-26 23:31:15 <rjk2> been down all day
1163 2011-10-26 23:31:19 <rjk2> wonder whats up
1164 2011-10-26 23:36:58 <diki> hope it gets fixed soon
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