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  36 2011-11-29 02:11:22 <Diablo-D3> ;;ticker
  37 2011-11-29 02:11:23 <gribble> Best bid: 2.6917, Best ask: 2.6999, Bid-ask spread: 0.0082, Last trade: 2.6999, 24 hour volume: 64967, 24 hour low: 2.44, 24 hour high: 2.6999
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 155 2011-11-29 07:22:10 <Lolcust_Backup> Hello everyone! What is the limit on the ammount of verbiage a pool can put into coinbase nowadays ?
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 165 2011-11-29 07:48:51 <[Tycho]> Hello.
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 179 2011-11-29 08:24:52 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 180 2011-11-29 08:25:33 molecular has joined
 181 2011-11-29 08:33:40 skydrome has left ("Television is the most evil thing on our planet. Go right now to your TV and toss it out the window, or sell it and buy a better stereo.")
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 193 2011-11-29 09:10:44 <sipa> Lolcust_Backup: 100 bytes
 194 2011-11-29 09:13:49 <Lolcust_Backup> Thanks sipa
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 198 2011-11-29 09:19:49 <denisx> with the merkletreeupdater my pushpool needs 70µsec for a getwork request
 199 2011-11-29 09:21:51 alexwaters3 has joined
 200 2011-11-29 09:22:11 <alexwaters3> Anyone have any input on my Bitcoin funding initiative? https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YWcpPe-q5tNL0xbak6h8R152sy2DNgUVKsG2Lxutf_I/edit?pli=1
 201 2011-11-29 09:27:17 <alexwaters3> if you do plese feel free to comment within the doc
 202 2011-11-29 09:29:01 <SomeoneWeird> heh
 203 2011-11-29 09:29:04 <SomeoneWeird> stay away from paypal.
 204 2011-11-29 09:30:06 <wumpus> I agree with the proposal at large. But yeah, using paypal for accepting donations sounds like a recipe for disaster
 205 2011-11-29 09:30:33 <wumpus> they're not very donation friendly unless you have a registered charity, and even then they sometimes fuck up
 206 2011-11-29 09:33:23 <wumpus> using them to fund a "competitor", be prepared for a lot of drama
 207 2011-11-29 09:34:52 <wumpus> accepting donations in bitcoins would be a good start, eating our own dogfood etc :-)
 208 2011-11-29 09:35:18 <alexwaters3> i wrote it to bring up the point about attracting the people who will only donate via traditional means, how can we reach them?
 209 2011-11-29 09:35:54 <alexwaters3> is there an out of the box donation system we could use to process credit cards?
 210 2011-11-29 09:36:01 <sipa> is flattr still popular?
 211 2011-11-29 09:36:24 <wumpus> flattr is indeed a good option
 212 2011-11-29 09:40:13 <denisx> in europe it is popular
 213 2011-11-29 09:40:19 <wumpus> and at least they don't have the reputation to be "evil" like paypal
 214 2011-11-29 09:40:45 <denisx> one of the founder was also behind piratebay
 215 2011-11-29 09:40:53 <Lolcust_Backup> Well, there is also moneybookers (now rebranded into skrill)
 216 2011-11-29 09:41:16 <Lolcust_Backup> They have a "chargeback defense option" though it's probably expensive as fuck
 217 2011-11-29 09:42:28 <Lolcust_Backup> I think they also have a "accept funds only from moneybooker clients this tall" (that is, with a certain identity validation rating) option, but I might be wrong on that
 218 2011-11-29 09:45:20 <alexwaters3> on the mailing list gavin mentioned a Bitcoin not for profit, does anyone have more information on this?
 219 2011-11-29 09:45:31 <alexwaters3> i am searching the forums and can't find it
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 221 2011-11-29 09:46:58 <wumpus> I don't think there is any more than wild plans
 222 2011-11-29 09:47:38 <wumpus> Lolcust_Backup: well chargebacks are a little less of an issue when accepting donations
 223 2011-11-29 09:48:14 <Lolcust_Backup> Well, maybe, but it is still a neat feat.
 224 2011-11-29 09:49:39 <wumpus> yeah
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 266 2011-11-29 13:25:37 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rd1036b101f01b7ab79fc3e10e5199f80f478674d /: Initial directory structure.
 267 2011-11-29 13:25:37 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rfdde16681399d3e6bb65573a4caa7ff162a6b606 /: Move the banner print in the PingService until after the blockchain.
 268 2011-11-29 13:25:37 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r66321804e79ad00a619b744e1a1a5b76c690eb53 /: Enable some simple checks of transaction ordering in the block verification.
 269 2011-11-29 13:25:38 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rf97cde4c346a961400d56fb48423440b2501b1c5 /:
 270 2011-11-29 13:25:38 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Seek past garbage before the message header starts. It's unclear how this occurs but is probably an issue in the
 271 2011-11-29 13:25:38 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: official implementation (which also does this seeking).
 272 2011-11-29 13:25:38 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Print out some data from the ver message on connection.
 273 2011-11-29 13:25:39 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Refuse to connect to nodes that don't provide the block chain.
 274 2011-11-29 13:25:39 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r29e60a460d7458a227ab130e8d4af768cbe4c8ed /:
 275 2011-11-29 13:25:39 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Add a getValueSentFromMe() to complement getValueSentToMe() and some unit tests.
 276 2011-11-29 13:25:40 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: BUG=2
 277 2011-11-29 13:25:40 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rdebd034c71009f6c34fb000fbd80c5c84ca806c5 /:
 278 2011-11-29 13:25:41 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Add a serialVersionUID to other classes that were missing them. Thanks to Andreas for the report.
 279 2011-11-29 13:25:46 <TD> doh
 280 2011-11-29 13:25:48 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: BUG=4
 281 2011-11-29 13:25:48 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rc9bc430f5364c1f34879ec9fb9a9722738b07bff /: Add a wallet dumping tool, toString() on the Wallet object.
 282 2011-11-29 13:25:48 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rc40b7ce668f3664d546272a0ce0c889aefe91ecc /: Refresh JavaDocs.
 283 2011-11-29 13:25:48 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r0bacae85fb8bfd339a350c5a87027185129c12bf /: Improve JavaDocs in ECKey to try and help people understand the difference between pubkeyhashes and pubkeys. The getting started guide was also updated.
 284 2011-11-29 13:25:48 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rd58ad311fed22debbac8da399c97e8206f5e8161 /: Minor whitespace/doc changes.
 285 2011-11-29 13:25:48 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r57caa5503d0c133d02376acc038dd71cc5eeeecb /:
 286 2011-11-29 13:25:48 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Some changes to how block chain download is done:
 287 2011-11-29 13:25:52 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: - Progress is now made available
 288 2011-11-29 13:25:52 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: - Fixes bug: can now wait for downloads of chains < 500 blocks
 289 2011-11-29 13:25:52 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: - Flesh out VersionMessage parsing, send BitCoinJ name in subVer field
 290 2011-11-29 13:25:52 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * ra7015bd0d4371ca3ff1487e3c1373106f1925e0c /: Change serialVer on Block. Patch from Andreas.
 291 2011-11-29 13:25:52 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r7310e294f996a0f6a02e7035fa04e3db249a6fb9 /:
 292 2011-11-29 13:25:52 <TD> CIA is gonna get kicked
 293 2011-11-29 13:26:03 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rd2e4284930e00b9685b8832815199f3312c3b200 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Improve the block locator we send to remote peers as a temporary hack for the lack of exponential thinning. Patch from Jan. Updates issue 84.
 294 2011-11-29 13:26:04 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r65205b2655701aab2747877cb36952137636d4b8 /target/site/apidocs/ (100 files in 5 dirs): Remove javadocs from repo, they are available at javadoc.bitcoinj.org instead.
 295 2011-11-29 13:26:04 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r74aae43f439c501a52b00584882ef2e5a9b49b04 /pom.xml: Switch to JDK logging and add a simple formatter that is more concise than the default Java one.
 296 2011-11-29 13:26:05 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r00cb8a4abd7a11e94b6f6b0b9552b2001f25ecfa /src/com/google/bitcoin/core/Message.java: Make bitcoinSerialize() return a copy by default, provide an unsafeBitcoinSerialize() method for high performance applications that are willing to deal with the extra API complexity.
 297 2011-11-29 13:26:05 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Miron Cuperman (devrandom) <miron@google.com> * r0bc87e58045c425bedbb4887571835e476ef97d0 /src/com/google/bitcoin/core/Utils.java: Fix bug in Utils.copyOf
 298 2011-11-29 13:26:09 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Miron Cuperman (devrandom) <miron@google.com> * ra4a711e2df203b97275e0f619181893d8a7d9479 /src/com/google/bitcoin/core/ (5 files): Fix serialization UIDs, other cleanup
 299 2011-11-29 13:26:09 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r34fea867082bfb8210a40404ffef925298628d9f / (17 files in 2 dirs):
 300 2011-11-29 13:26:09 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: First part of Steves changes in preparation for a high performance multiplexing proxy:
 301 2011-11-29 13:26:09 <CIA-100> bitcoinj:  1) Introduce partial support for caching the underlying byte arrays during message deserialization, so re-serialization can be skipped in the case where a message is not modified.
 302 2011-11-29 13:26:09 <CIA-100> bitcoinj:  2) Add c'tors that allow a message to be configured to lazily parse on-demand.
 303 2011-11-29 13:26:09 <CIA-100> bitcoinj:  Note that the getters/setters that make lazy parsing transparent are coming in future commits.
 304 2011-11-29 13:26:10 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Miron Cuperman (devrandom) <miron@google.com> * r228f30f66374dbf24a7012d57b71b3a0df72ffcb /src/com/google/bitcoin/core/ (Block.java Message.java): Fix length and parseLazy handling. Resolves issue 92
 305 2011-11-29 13:26:17 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r99385e7aee1679a4c8eb6c733abe07a1eef111fe /src/com/google/bitcoin/store/BoundedOverheadBlockStore.java: Make a field static. Resolves comments by Miron on r194.
 306 2011-11-29 13:26:17 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r06ad3e5bb1147af007ff68c7d83f930f64cdb5c7 / (4 files in 3 dirs):
 307 2011-11-29 13:26:17 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Patch 6 from Steves lazy parsing patchset:
 308 2011-11-29 13:26:17 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Deduping related optimizations. This code will be removed later.
 309 2011-11-29 13:26:17 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r03647dbb7e13f3b2139c26072d5dff45059c93e2 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Add a getTransactions() method that returns a set of all transactions, optionally including those which are dead and inactive. Add an argument for returning dead transactions in getRecentTransactions(). Updates issue 3.
 310 2011-11-29 13:26:17 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r57077a71ae7f640d7d4dd812b06a1a335c39eb57 /src/com/google/bitcoin/core/Message.java: Minor comment reformatting, dead code elimination.
 311 2011-11-29 13:26:23 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * ree083d6fac3036b1723b8611e0e2c22a12ea0352 / (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
 312 2011-11-29 13:26:23 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Patch 9 from Steves lazy parsing patchset.
 313 2011-11-29 13:26:23 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Add UnsafeByteArrayOutputStream. ByteArrayOutputStreams are used extensively and result in a lot of short lived byte arrays.
 314 2011-11-29 13:26:23 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: This patch contains two optimizations
 315 2011-11-29 13:26:23 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: 1/ attempt to provide the final length to ByteArrayOutputStream constructor to
 316 2011-11-29 13:26:23 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: avoid constantly resizing the backing array. Default size is 32 which means
 317 2011-11-29 13:26:24 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: larger messages may require several array reallocations and almost all will
 318 2011-11-29 13:26:24 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r9549d345a7490d0072ecbeb29fa8ead9695f0db6 / (TODO tests/com/google/bitcoin/core/Manipulator.java): Delete some dead code.
 319 2011-11-29 13:26:29 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Miron Cuperman (devrandom) <miron@google.com> * rcb4067da09db411612c9715e5934391483b6d4a9 /src/com/google/bitcoin/core/ (3 files): Remove dependency on Java 1.6
 320 2011-11-29 13:26:29 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r3191d5684becfa6c10dcaa7d3cfa9d7decc34d93 / (4 files in 2 dirs): Implement a way of getting a list of transactions in the wallet, ordered by recency. This doesn't yet support pending transactions, as those can't (yet) be added to the wallet.
 321 2011-11-29 13:26:29 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r58b18fa7247757bd64b55d74767cc69678fa3bc6 /src/com/google/bitcoin/core/Transaction.java: Delete the unused/incomplete Transaction.verifyInput method.
 322 2011-11-29 13:26:29 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rba2351f5aaa32fe7fd6ba3eb7909157f59626e12 /src/com/google/bitcoin/core/EmptyMessage.java: Simplify EmptyMessage. Gets to patch 0 from Steve.
 323 2011-11-29 13:26:30 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r27b6b5ab97800e53b95535b6e222a509dcc24c62 /src/com/google/bitcoin/core/ (15 files):
 324 2011-11-29 13:26:34 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Patch 8 from Steves lazy parsing patchset.
 325 2011-11-29 13:26:34 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: More optimizations: pre-calculate or guess various array sizes to avoid needlessly re-sizing them later.
 326 2011-11-29 13:26:34 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Sha256Hash caches the hashCode.
 327 2011-11-29 13:26:34 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Message classes now track their (estimated) length even when not using deserialization-related constructors.
 328 2011-11-29 13:26:34 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r25e745688849799f055cb6f6e91a22f87c33176b /src/com/google/bitcoin/core/EmptyMessage.java: Add EmptyMessage class that was missing from previous commit.
 329 2011-11-29 13:26:34 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * ra5981325142115f75f79d3f337636c8254b74389 /: Minor formatting change.
 330 2011-11-29 13:26:35 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * reae1130a31c34e91f859dff67a8ecfd2b6ad3c4b / (2 files in 2 dirs): Make PeerGroup remember discovery sources and retry them after a while.
 331 2011-11-29 13:26:40 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r133dad7305ab8ba2153600d25323919223ed0edc /src/com/google/bitcoin/core/PeerGroup.java: Tweak PeerGroup thread priority. Resolves issue 67.
 332 2011-11-29 13:26:40 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rc3933a7773107dbc985665f7e187c5127e84bfde /:
 333 2011-11-29 13:26:40 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Make the unit tests more realistic and fix two bugs this revealed:
 334 2011-11-29 13:26:40 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: 1) Receiving coins regressed after the last optimization. Resolves issue 49.
 335 2011-11-29 13:26:40 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: 2) Reorg handling expected to be able to connect all inputs.
 336 2011-11-29 13:26:40 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Also other minor fixes and small additions.
 337 2011-11-29 13:26:41 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Miron Cuperman (devrandom) <miron@google.com> * r3a463e47999631945eed42c14689a633516f615a / (22 files in 4 dirs): Cleanup of lazy block parsing, patch from shadders
 338 2011-11-29 13:26:41 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r6491f3a048179e90abfd1a51a85c27860495015d / (pom.xml src/com/google/bitcoin/core/VersionMessage.java): Bump version to 0.4-SNAPSHOT, switch the subVer field to use genjixs BIP 14 format.
 339 2011-11-29 13:26:45 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rafef6bc0293e23f521985168a6c122da5c65913c / (27 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
 340 2011-11-29 13:26:45 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Second part of Steves lazy parsing patchset:
 341 2011-11-29 13:26:45 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: 1) Added getters and setters to many objects that lacked them.
 342 2011-11-29 13:26:45 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: 2) Introduce a parseLite method that is called even in "lazy parse" mode. This calculates the length of the message so children can be skipped when parsing a container object.
 343 2011-11-29 13:26:57 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r7a4dfd1dc24c72b75427ba9f98dbd777284c7957 /:
 344 2011-11-29 13:26:57 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Test that you can sign with the roundtrip key and verify with the original key, and vice versa.
 345 2011-11-29 13:26:57 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: See http://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/source/detail?r=51
 346 2011-11-29 13:26:57 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Patch from Thilo Planz.y
 347 2011-11-29 13:26:57 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r84f738763f02e213a581a433f3b2f15470d78fef /src/com/google/bitcoin/core/ (5 files):
 348 2011-11-29 13:26:57 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Patch 11 from Steves lazy parsing patchset.
 349 2011-11-29 13:26:58 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Cache checksum for non-empty messages.
 350 2011-11-29 13:26:58 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: VersionMessage and AddressMessage require some special handling. VersionMessage because it's never lazy parsed or cached. AddressMessage because when serializing PeerAddresses the time field is dynamic.
 351 2011-11-29 13:26:59 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Checksum byte array is currently transient so no gains for a message extracted from java serialization then bitcoinSerialized. I don't think this would ever happen in real life but if it does then it could al
 352 2011-11-29 13:27:02 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Miron Cuperman (devrandom) <miron@google.com> * r7dd1fce5aa45e27ef4683440033bc64a52c6aae3 /: Clean up Peer exception handling
 353 2011-11-29 13:27:03 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * raff7fda17d14951584cfe5622f2ee3996afd4162 /:
 354 2011-11-29 13:27:03 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Add a function/some tests for string to nanocoin conversions and vice-versa, along with a TODO to clean this whole thing up. Patch from Thilo Planz.
 355 2011-11-29 13:27:03 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Fixes issue 1.
 356 2011-11-29 13:27:03 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rf336a899846061d2abf07f66021b181c63f77db2 / (2 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
 357 2011-11-29 13:27:03 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Patch 10 from Steves lazy parsing patchset.
 358 2011-11-29 13:27:04 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Customize Sha256Hash.hashCode() method to only use first n bytes of the backing
 359 2011-11-29 13:27:04 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: array. This provides uniqueness to 256^n combinations. As hashcode is not
 360 2011-11-29 13:27:05 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: required to be guaranteed unique this fulfills the contract and reduces hashing
 361 2011-11-29 13:27:06 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: time.
 362 2011-11-29 13:27:06 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Use case is for applications that do a lot of mapping by Sha256Hash. Each put and get require several hashcode operations. Cached hashcode is already implemented in 8.patch.
 363 2011-11-29 13:27:20 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * ra32a612630150297d89b70d66eafc6fdcafdb5e5 /:
 364 2011-11-29 13:27:20 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Add DNS based discovery. Patch from John Sample. Resolves issue 18.
 365 2011-11-29 13:27:20 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Rename IRCPeers to PrintPeers, add DNS, add timing measurements.
 366 2011-11-29 13:27:20 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r63e70998c744443df2c831a81782df1066a2a487 /: Fix javadoc rule in ant. Refresh Javadocs.
 367 2011-11-29 13:27:21 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rcd10099d3f18585af1a08c86bf445917d9f071e5 /: Some small renamings in BlockChain. Log but don't throw in TransactionOutput.isMine() if the script is unparseable. Suggestions from Miron.
 368 2011-11-29 13:27:21 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rbf7b8f133c7fdde535804f4af9d4f2e978866749 /src/com/google/bitcoin/core/Script.java: Fix a minor bug in OP_PUSHDATA2 (not used). Resolves issue 80.
 369 2011-11-29 13:27:22 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r18d45f0590ed0d696bc751ce80b7d4d45b3689ce /: Update repo URLs. Patch from Gary Rowe.
 370 2011-11-29 13:27:26 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r1e2f3ae3e2c2b162eb129aa520901e35e0b70ded /: Split the BlockChain.add method out into some smaller functions.
 371 2011-11-29 13:27:27 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r3b8b0833c57628369d66b9d17e1d946374767eac /:
 372 2011-11-29 13:27:27 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Use Sha256Hash more consistently, improve the class a bit.
 373 2011-11-29 13:27:27 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Note that the endianness of the hashes is still very ad-hoc and messy. Next step is to pick an endianness and stick with it, to reduce the number of times reverseBytes is used.
 374 2011-11-29 13:27:27 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r794facc7272f8b85d2350c86d88b9122d49c6d9a /src/com/google/bitcoin/examples/PrintPeers.java: Dump out versions and chain heights in PrintPeers.
 375 2011-11-29 13:27:27 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r91fe7cdefbc398ff1c7acda8cba79f01578d5b89 /src/com/google/bitcoin/store/BoundedOverheadBlockStore.java: Use "d" mode not "s" mode, to avoid needlessly updating file metadata (we don't use it).
 376 2011-11-29 13:27:32 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rea8cbd7465266864b2933a927eaa0cf408c7a7b6 /: Don't pre-calculate the hash in the Transaction parse code. Speeds up processing of large blocks with no relevant transactions.
 377 2011-11-29 13:27:32 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Miron Cuperman (devrandom) <miron@google.com> * rf68edc80cc862c4113e4e8d9a10a157ed1112392 /: Fix bug in FetchBlock introduced by peergroup merge
 378 2011-11-29 13:27:32 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r86d7b15f8c274c6abf0f7048f1bc58090639a448 /:
 379 2011-11-29 13:27:32 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Some small protocol fixes. Correct serialization of version and address messages.
 380 2011-11-29 13:27:33 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Also require the height of the best chain to be specified when setting up a NetworkConnection. This API is getting too complicated and will be simplified soon.
 381 2011-11-29 13:27:33 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: For now these fixes resolve a bug whereby the peer would not send us new blocks discovered during a session (as it thought we already had them).
 382 2011-11-29 13:27:38 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r0953e79cb046a214afd3175acabff46acfd7ac9a /: Improve the documentation for the PingService. Patch by Gary Rowe.
 383 2011-11-29 13:27:39 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r6a049b633e2044dae502b7e3e0a5e9f0748a1dc4 /src/com/google/bitcoin/core/PeerGroup.java: Don't log stack traces for expected network problems. Clean up the logging a bit. Resolves issue 69.
 384 2011-11-29 13:27:39 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rddb1679a7858d76aac7d0db0065acbc159551d80 /src/com/google/bitcoin/ (core/Peer.java store/BoundedOverheadBlockStore.java):
 385 2011-11-29 13:27:39 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Make a couple of inner classes static for efficiency, clears some FindBugs warnings.
 386 2011-11-29 13:27:39 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Throw an exception if file delete in the block store failed, clears another warning.
 387 2011-11-29 13:27:39 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r78bdd09189ec3d7d38c64029b9742e24f2bfc143 /: Log the block chain height to debug, not info.
 388 2011-11-29 13:27:45 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r88212f6bfa5d9fe70655a74143de1000a03b5d72 /: Make BlockStore and StoredBlock public. Move StoredBlock building into the class itself.
 389 2011-11-29 13:27:45 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r653d544b536017666c7981d5135ac44914011752 /: Minor fixes.
 390 2011-11-29 13:27:45 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r6963eb0ca96524f655d662d039c7de9aed627566 /src/com/google/bitcoin/core/NetworkConnection.java: Throw a ProtocolException instead of ClassCastException if connecting to a bad peer that does not send a version message on new connections. Resolves issue 81.
 391 2011-11-29 13:27:45 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Miron Cuperman (devrandom) <miron@google.com> * rdc20212fdc7ebd7c0ea07c7d384290896748e837 / (5 files in 3 dirs): Unit tests for Peer
 392 2011-11-29 13:27:45 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r37cb9cb6e5f4041fc23cc766a4fd45f9ea1b9069 /:
 393 2011-11-29 13:27:45 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Make Base58 throw on decode if the input is not valid base58, add test.
 394 2011-11-29 13:27:50 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Add a decodeChecked method that uses the last 4 bytes as a checksum, for IRC support.
 395 2011-11-29 13:27:50 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rccef45c6c96c1bd55b043f454cc7e3d221d57af9 /: Refresh JavaDocs.
 396 2011-11-29 13:27:50 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Miron Cuperman (devrandom) <miron@google.com> * r4b268872df70ca5803ce6c2d6284338aa44db8ce /src/com/google/bitcoin/core/Utils.java: Make decodeCompactBits public, resolves issue 99.
 397 2011-11-29 13:27:50 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Miron Cuperman (devrandom) <miron@google.com> * r381cda1ff239159b6eb5ffb3a3562253fc8d8d43 /src/com/google/bitcoin/core/Peer.java: Fixes for r165 code review
 398 2011-11-29 13:27:50 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r65b80720bd9cd7923ec5a179963129be971b9bdd /: Move the next header creation method out of BlockTest and into Block, as it is useful for other unit tests as well.
 399 2011-11-29 13:27:50 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r0cec27e5a7749e637d9cee574648263a95f9e15a / (8 files in 2 dirs):
 400 2011-11-29 13:27:55 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Some changes to PeerGroup and how we manage the download process:
 401 2011-11-29 13:27:56 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: - Have a dominant peer that is responsible for all data downloads. This eliminates the case of multiple threads fighting over download of the block chain and wasting time/bandwidth duplicating work.
 402 2011-11-29 13:27:56 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: - Make NetworkConnection an interface with two implementations: {TCP,Mock}NetworkConnection
 403 2011-11-29 13:27:56 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: - Rewrite the Peer/PeerGroup tests to use the mock connection. This simplifies testing of multiple independent peer threads within the same gro
 404 2011-11-29 13:27:56 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r2ef36efccea5ebed0c9c6ad0050fae1469382980 /AUTHORS: Add Steve to the AUTHORS file.
 405 2011-11-29 13:27:57 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r8bf12acb2b819b677878223e60fba7d231ed26d0 / (3 files in 2 dirs):
 406 2011-11-29 13:27:58 <jeremias> wtf
 407 2011-11-29 13:28:01 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Patch 7 from Steves lazy parsing patchset:
 408 2011-11-29 13:28:02 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Some changes to SpeedTest. This code can be removed later.
 409 2011-11-29 13:28:02 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * re0b11b071b720473db03a1275d5b74a60c02e3d9 /tests/com/google/bitcoin/core/PeerTest.java: Fix thinko that was causing test failure.
 410 2011-11-29 13:28:02 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rab8227882dc6d9f6e77bec5b1d27d60c82a6ade6 / (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
 411 2011-11-29 13:28:02 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Patch 5 from Steves lazy parsing patchset:
 412 2011-11-29 13:28:02 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Optimise BitcoinSerialiser for Transactions. When calculating checksum on
 413 2011-11-29 13:28:03 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: deserialize use it prepopulate the transaction's hash. Likewise on serialize
 414 2011-11-29 13:28:03 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: check if the Transaction already has a hash and use that to write checksum
 415 2011-11-29 13:28:04 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: bytes. This yields performance improvesment up to 400% by saving on a double
 416 2011-11-29 13:28:05 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: hash.
 417 2011-11-29 13:28:05 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * ra504328044768af1ed498f9c24bda2c4bf107502 /: Improve VarInt: simplify, fix some minor bugs and increase test coverage.
 418 2011-11-29 13:28:06 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rf4e54046f07f4d7e8aab5079b835277ec493d359 /src/com/google/bitcoin/store/BoundedOverheadBlockStore.java:
 419 2011-11-29 13:28:15 <jeremias> u no floodkick
 420 2011-11-29 13:28:18 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * reee6e0341696d6ef2bc53c111cd2a51704b63047 /: Fix the ant build.xml file to include SLF4J
 421 2011-11-29 13:28:19 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * ra2f0cb54a77eec255c534af038bf33c00baad30a /pom.xml: POM for 0.3 release
 422 2011-11-29 13:28:21 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r2191a9979f93924d3791bcc58ae134cb030ce4d9 /:
 423 2011-11-29 13:28:21 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Rename Block.getTime() to Block.getTimeSeconds() and note the metric used in the javadoc.
 424 2011-11-29 13:28:21 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Don't rethrow BlockStoreException as RuntimeException in BlockChain constructor. Updates issue 66.
 425 2011-11-29 13:28:22 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rbebc83f64cecefb1da309eb656e566f0714306df /:
 426 2011-11-29 13:28:22 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Improve unit tests to verify the arguments to the onDeadTransaction event. Fixed a bug revealed by this.
 427 2011-11-29 13:28:22 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Credit to miron@google.com for spotting the problem.
 428 2011-11-29 13:28:23 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rebfd7e4147d74f7e583883a08aae5ed91d70bc09 /: Refresh JavaDocs
 429 2011-11-29 13:28:24 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r675abc29743f31670ec9ea3cfa9aee9ed9ff14cc /: Remove transactions from the dead pool when they become live, and from pending when they become dead. Addresses comments from Miron.
 430 2011-11-29 13:28:27 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r892dffd732cb19494b0bbad94ecb8a9ba26efe48 /README: Update README.
 431 2011-11-29 13:28:27 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rfbb93e4c275eb7d033bd8cb849d80673d379941e / (100 files in 8 dirs): Initial checkin of BitCoinJ
 432 2011-11-29 13:28:28 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rbbe133be88b943ec1de499fbcd457f4ae642a27d / (6 files in 3 dirs):
 433 2011-11-29 13:28:28 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Make WalletEventListener an interface with a no-op implementation. Add an
 434 2011-11-29 13:28:28 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: onChange() method to the default implementation that is called by the others,
 435 2011-11-29 13:28:28 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: for cases where you don't care about what specifically changed, just that a
 436 2011-11-29 13:28:28 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: change happened.
 437 2011-11-29 13:28:29 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r53d5d7572bc4d89679b0771d36e103b96c27d184 /: Delete unused setFakeHashForTesting method.
 438 2011-11-29 13:28:32 <sipa> TD: moving to git?
 439 2011-11-29 13:28:35 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r66e596a8eb93d8e3804532c3ed953145f8d697a1 /:
 440 2011-11-29 13:28:35 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: De-Satoshize the buildMerkleTree function:
 441 2011-11-29 13:28:35 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: - Clarify the terminology in the existing explanation.
 442 2011-11-29 13:28:35 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: - Add an explanation of what the point of the structure is.
 443 2011-11-29 13:28:35 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: - Note how non-power-of-two transaction list sizes are handled.
 444 2011-11-29 13:28:36 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: - Rename variables to be more helpful than i,i2,j etc.
 445 2011-11-29 13:28:36 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: - Add a more detailed explanation of each step of the algorithm.
 446 2011-11-29 13:28:37 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r9b787659758de48d179798363735746c8f1441d8 /: Remove obsolete comment.
 447 2011-11-29 13:28:37 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rdbab159551b3d5f77428bde0742c5aed109ae760 /: (log message trimmed)
 448 2011-11-29 13:28:38 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: First part of block chain handling rework.
 449 2011-11-29 13:28:39 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: - Store the block chain using a get/put interface keyed by hash,
 450 2011-11-29 13:28:39 <CIA-100> bitcoinj:  so we can add disk storage later.
 451 2011-11-29 13:28:40 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: - Add unit tests for difficulty transitions. Move some stuff into
 452 2011-11-29 13:28:46 <TD> sipa: can you op me?
 453 2011-11-29 13:28:50 <TD> sipa: we need to kick CIA
 454 2011-11-29 13:28:51 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Simplify Block.equals
 455 2011-11-29 13:28:51 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r3d301fd1fcc49e8af44301780c94eeac440e6f69 /:
 456 2011-11-29 13:28:51 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Scan coinbase transaction outputs when receiving a block, in case generated blocks send coins to an address we have
 457 2011-11-29 13:28:51 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: in the wallet.
 458 2011-11-29 13:28:52 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Miron Cuperman (devrandom) <miron@google.com> * r8e84d71308d6fb2612c8f53946909e11fb79877f /: PeerGroup - fix copyright and text
 459 2011-11-29 13:28:52 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Miron Cuperman (devrandom) <miron@google.com> * rdff3b2b45ab3da14e384d637338b2a399674178d / (2 files in 2 dirs): Implement ReverseDwordBytes. Resolves issue 100
 460 2011-11-29 13:28:53 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r39ccbb595c04b5df5a0048c41de7e316b0c6e34a /pom.xml: Correct typo in the POM file.
 461 2011-11-29 13:28:53 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r38bf9a8a80d42fbb15ac3fa9b77354ca3521e387 /:
 462 2011-11-29 13:28:55 <sipa> TD: i don't have op
 463 2011-11-29 13:29:02 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Change how socket errors are handled in NetworkConnection and Peer. This allows for cleaner shutdown and simplifies
 464 2011-11-29 13:29:03 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: the code a bit.
 465 2011-11-29 13:29:03 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Get rid of some unchecked conversion warnings to do with getblock futures.
 466 2011-11-29 13:29:03 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r0315b3a5e6898bb504ceb60fb6474ed90a31105d / (5 files in 2 dirs):
 467 2011-11-29 13:29:03 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Add a create method to Sha256Hash.
 468 2011-11-29 13:29:03 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Don't deserialize block or tx messages that were already seen, to avoid wasting battery and causing memory spikes that can trigger OOM conditions. Updates issue 73.
 469 2011-11-29 13:29:04 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Miron Cuperman (devrandom) <miron@google.com> * r7a834cad6e5dd268b2861a030e0fdf5cfd331a78 /tests/com/google/bitcoin/core/MockNetworkConnection.java: Fix another Java-6ism
 470 2011-11-29 13:29:04 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r1fd80673222412814d6647982ac97ded46002753 /: Delete an unused method.
 471 2011-11-29 13:29:05 <devrandom> sorry about that, didn't know it was going to trigger every single commit hook
 472 2011-11-29 13:29:05 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rf6fd61a3a0f6815cfbe196ff31b22006ed8577e4 /: Add a SeedPeers class that contains a pre-compiled list of IP addresses taking part in the Bitcoin network for a long period of time, for use if IRC and DNS are unavailable. Based on a patch by Micheal Swiggs.
 473 2011-11-29 13:29:06 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * ra9d3ca45e522c72d0f8457e5c1515980f914ab96 /: Add serialVersionUID to StoredBlock
 474 2011-11-29 13:29:06 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r5fceeb7794c23e310a0e95a24e9b5e285f64a8bb /src/com/google/bitcoin/core/TCPNetworkConnection.java: Add units to the TCPNetworkConnection connectTimeout[Msec] parameter.
 475 2011-11-29 13:29:07 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rba2255a1850a3d0a63f547186d81c348ebf15b55 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Second part ... refresh timestamp when confirming a spend to the wallet.
 476 2011-11-29 13:29:07 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rbb017a5dab25a699300b9b8e3da8ee6576f46cf8 /:
 477 2011-11-29 13:29:09 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Change the order of the messages in the version handshake. This fixes
 478 2011-11-29 13:29:09 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: connections to BitCoin nodes beyond v0.30.20.2 which are "shy", that is, they do
 479 2011-11-29 13:29:09 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: not announce their version on accepting a connection. The intent of that change
 480 2011-11-29 13:29:10 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: is to make port scanning harder, though it is questionable whether this really
 481 2011-11-29 13:29:10 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: is effective.
 482 2011-11-29 13:29:22 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r5561ffcb90416bbd8e64c78426cfc76b57287557 /tests/com/google/bitcoin/core/SpeedTest.java: Remove SpeedTest as it's not generally useful to have in the test suite.
 483 2011-11-29 13:29:24 <TD> that seems like quite a stupid bug
 484 2011-11-29 13:29:26 <TD> in google code
 485 2011-11-29 13:29:27 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * ra3a4a927af4ccfa3186ea837737206df9b73dbd5 / (5 files in 2 dirs): Always pass the wallet into the event listeners on every event.
 486 2011-11-29 13:29:27 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r0d085606dfa2292e1b4dc1eadc68a4fe97e082d7 /: Fix a bogus comment in checkMerkleBranch().
 487 2011-11-29 13:29:27 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r94f36ae8ec83e9f35a684b62a4a517b31a968a0d /: Remove a java6ism (IOError)
 488 2011-11-29 13:29:27 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * ra22a0fd2bf111e73f49f0bf154b79a2768d0ee13 /src/com/google/bitcoin/core/PeerGroup.java: Remove stray import. Gotta love IDEs. Resolves issue 78.
 489 2011-11-29 13:29:27 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r320933bb70a038eca01a8ae09f4dd121ff894a34 /: Add more info to the Wallet.toString() output.
 490 2011-11-29 13:29:27 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r513eff26f9aaab69f01af6dc5a8c8d3756e9d895 /: Don't serialize the block hash, recalculate on demand using getHash()
 491 2011-11-29 13:29:33 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Miron Cuperman (devrandom) <miron@google.com> * r2ce328aa0be6be98e7c234c078f48a78f9ad42c4 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Use RandomAccessFile in DiskBlockStore to fix corruption. Resolves issue 76
 492 2011-11-29 13:29:33 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r20adfd9965cd12bc904e91bfdcbda29d37cc4876 /: Propagate BlockStoreException in BlockChain.setChainHead
 493 2011-11-29 13:29:33 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rfe8afb46f754d941d5b2f47a5816541d768664ea /: Add SLF4J to the unit test classpath. Fixes issue 21.
 494 2011-11-29 13:29:33 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Miron Cuperman (devrandom) <miron@google.com> * r098671ffbaf962c27e9498ae50134630225d828f / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix key array handling in importing/exporting private keys. Resolves issue 48.
 495 2011-11-29 13:29:33 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r525d5e8d556f530de31a92c6ed7aca04ebde6499 /src/com/google/bitcoin/ (utils/BriefLogFormatter.java examples/PingService.java): Switch to JDK logging and add a simple formatter that is more concise than the default Java one.
 496 2011-11-29 13:29:39 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r617c31dd6f7b8e387dd1c5649dba131553550831 /: Remove some Java 6isms.
 497 2011-11-29 13:29:39 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r99d155e0fe8f46953d584ee105c0438db5a29965 /: Control API logging using the bitcoinj.logging global property.
 498 2011-11-29 13:29:39 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r037d99770d55cc56c0b48eb9236a05275fdfc988 /: Bump version number to 0.3-SNAPSHOT
 499 2011-11-29 13:29:39 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rec4b53a973eeab86333ff8c28f7638a0588bf86b /: Lower priority for peer threads to avoid competing with UI threads. Resolves issue 67.
 500 2011-11-29 13:29:39 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r61488d88d6ccf9c3391112014bb43992b8530e05 /: Add dnsseed.bluematt.me to the DNS discovery list.
 501 2011-11-29 13:29:39 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r845224c8d59a573d47e9cbbb7d4c43516a5e841d /: Eliminate some warnings from IntelliJ inspections. There are still quite a few but they are all harmless.
 502 2011-11-29 13:29:43 <shadders> TD: sipa:  this is kinda fun... it's like bitcoinj's life is flashing before my eyes
 503 2011-11-29 13:29:44 <TD> we need more ops
 504 2011-11-29 13:30:03 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * r6a4d0e866ff265644c20bdb1218d8e0459ea6266 /: Fix an assertion in Wallet to use the correct type.
 505 2011-11-29 13:30:03 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Mike Hearn <hearn@google.com> * rd37723afbf6d7dfe5f7f39ecc828043331707a75 /:
 506 2011-11-29 13:30:03 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: Optimize Block.cloneAsHeader() which was taking about 25% of the CPU during
 507 2011-11-29 13:30:03 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: chain download on Android. The previous implementation was lazy (serialize and
 508 2011-11-29 13:30:03 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: deserialize), the new implementation is much faster and not much more complex.
 509 2011-11-29 13:30:03 <CIA-100> bitcoinj: The profiles are now dominated by checking difficulty transitions.
 510 2011-11-29 13:30:04 <TD> at least some euro ops
 511 2011-11-29 13:30:38 Burgundy has joined
 512 2011-11-29 13:30:41 <sipa> are we finished?
 513 2011-11-29 13:30:49 <TD> don't know
 514 2011-11-29 13:30:54 <TD> maybe some kind of CIA protection kicked in
 515 2011-11-29 13:31:05 <TD> I wrote the first version of CIA and it had flood control then, but maybe it's different now
 516 2011-11-29 13:31:11 <TD> that wasn't the first commit by any measn
 517 2011-11-29 13:31:15 <TD> there are hundreds of revisions in that repo
 518 2011-11-29 13:31:17 <shadders> my CIA cuts out after 10 commits
 519 2011-11-29 13:31:28 <sipa> oh CIA is google's?
 520 2011-11-29 13:31:31 <TD> no
 521 2011-11-29 13:31:41 <TD> it was just a side project i did with some friends years ago
 522 2011-11-29 13:31:47 <sipa> cool
 523 2011-11-29 13:32:02 <TD> i didn't actually write CIA. i suggested it be generalized from its project and wrote the CVS integration. back when CVS was cool :)
 524 2011-11-29 13:32:12 <TD> i disconnected the project from CIA as well, so maybe that's the reason it stopped
 525 2011-11-29 13:32:28 <shadders> TD: can you start it again?  I wanna see the rest
 526 2011-11-29 13:33:13 <shadders> I'm a keen historian
 527 2011-11-29 13:33:46 <TD> heh
 528 2011-11-29 13:33:50 <TD> http://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/source/list
 529 2011-11-29 13:34:22 <shadders> that's like watching a concert on VHS :p
 530 2011-11-29 13:35:24 <devrandom> okay, we have git for both the source and wiki
 531 2011-11-29 13:35:52 <TD> great
 532 2011-11-29 13:35:56 <TD> let me try checking it out
 533 2011-11-29 13:36:55 <TD> seems to have worked
 534 2011-11-29 13:37:01 <TD> now the question is, working style
 535 2011-11-29 13:37:07 <devrandom> very good
 536 2011-11-29 13:37:26 <TD> should i create a clone for myself and push to that, then just do pulls into the mainline client? or just push work in directly as before
 537 2011-11-29 13:37:32 <TD> seems simpler to stick with the latter
 538 2011-11-29 13:37:50 <devrandom> the github way is to clone, and create a branch for every patch
 539 2011-11-29 13:37:57 <devrandom> then merge after code review
 540 2011-11-29 13:38:15 <shadders> devrandom: is that you miron?
 541 2011-11-29 13:38:25 <devrandom> shadders: yes
 542 2011-11-29 13:40:37 <TD> i guess this will break the jenkins and such
 543 2011-11-29 13:40:41 <TD> though it seems disabled anyway
 544 2011-11-29 13:40:47 <TD> no matter. i'm sure gary will fix it up
 545 2011-11-29 13:40:57 <TD> devrandom: if you still can't sleep i have a pending txns patch for you to review
 546 2011-11-29 13:41:48 <sipa> gary rowe?
 547 2011-11-29 13:41:55 <TD> yeah
 548 2011-11-29 13:42:11 <sipa> ah, met him in prague last weekend
 549 2011-11-29 13:42:29 da2ce7 has joined
 550 2011-11-29 13:42:48 <sipa> hello da2ce7!
 551 2011-11-29 13:43:03 <da2ce7> hey sipa, it was great to see you at the confrence :)
 552 2011-11-29 13:43:11 <sipa> likewise :D
 553 2011-11-29 13:43:16 <TD> how was it?
 554 2011-11-29 13:43:19 <TD> good talks?
 555 2011-11-29 13:43:23 <da2ce7> ya
 556 2011-11-29 13:43:29 <TD> i read the mobile payments thing at the restaurant did not work :-(
 557 2011-11-29 13:43:36 <sipa> wifi troubles, indeed
 558 2011-11-29 13:43:39 <da2ce7> yeah, sucky wifi.
 559 2011-11-29 13:43:50 <sipa> nonetheless, people did pay with bitcoin :)
 560 2011-11-29 13:43:55 <TD> ah, wifi issues
 561 2011-11-29 13:44:07 <da2ce7> we really need a voucher based system, so people can do offline transactions...
 562 2011-11-29 13:44:10 <sipa> da2ce7: by the way, i fear the bloom filter idea won't help to reduce database writes
 563 2011-11-29 13:44:14 <TD> a nice addition to the mobile clients, would be a bluetooth broadcast network
 564 2011-11-29 13:44:20 <da2ce7> sipa: why so?
 565 2011-11-29 13:44:47 <TD> i'm sure sombody there had a local non-wifi data connection
 566 2011-11-29 13:44:48 <sipa> da2ce7: a tx comes in, gets verified, and processed; its bits are set, and nothing is written to the database
 567 2011-11-29 13:44:55 <TD> or you can just cache the transactions and assume no double spend, if you trust the spender
 568 2011-11-29 13:45:13 <sipa> da2ce7: now an attempted double spend comes in - you get the bits and they are all set, meaning "probably spent"
 569 2011-11-29 13:45:31 <sipa> there is however no way to be sure, as there is no definite information in the database
 570 2011-11-29 13:45:46 <sipa> s/get/check/
 571 2011-11-29 13:46:18 <sipa> or am i missing something?
 572 2011-11-29 13:46:45 <da2ce7> yeah... if the bits are set, we can do the extra work to work out for certan if it is a doubble spend or not...
 573 2011-11-29 13:46:54 ThomasV has joined
 574 2011-11-29 13:47:04 <da2ce7> however if the bits are not set, we can sure that it is NOT a doubble spend.
 575 2011-11-29 13:47:11 <sipa> yes, i know
 576 2011-11-29 13:47:14 SomeoneWeird is now known as SomeoneWeirdzzzz
 577 2011-11-29 13:47:19 <sipa> so it does help to verify transactions
 578 2011-11-29 13:47:23 <devrandom> TD: I think I better try to sleep again
 579 2011-11-29 13:47:29 <sipa> it can very quickly guarantee that it is not a double spend
 580 2011-11-29 13:47:35 <TD> devrandom: ok, good night
 581 2011-11-29 13:47:48 <sipa> da2ce7: but it does still require each spending to be written to the database as well
 582 2011-11-29 13:48:07 <sipa> since there is no way of guaranteeing spentness afterwards
 583 2011-11-29 13:49:21 <sipa> and just not requiring data to be read, which still needs to be written to afterwards, won't help much i believe (only maybe for miners that won
 584 2011-11-29 13:49:31 alanp_ has joined
 585 2011-11-29 13:49:32 <sipa> want to verify incoming transactions very quickly
 586 2011-11-29 13:49:43 <da2ce7> tx comes in, we need to first check if or the imputs are valid, checking the inputs requres that the we lookup the old outputs (to get the ammounts).
 587 2011-11-29 13:49:52 <sipa> yes
 588 2011-11-29 13:50:24 alanp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 589 2011-11-29 13:50:39 <sipa> 1) syntactic validity 2) bloom check to verify prevouts are not spend 3) read prevouts and verify scripts 4) update bloom filter and spendness in db
 590 2011-11-29 13:50:43 <gmaxwell> you could use a bloom filter on the old outputs to quickly exclude junk transactions where that would fail.
 591 2011-11-29 13:50:44 <sipa> that's the best you can do
 592 2011-11-29 13:51:01 <gmaxwell> And if you use a counting filter, you could remove txn as they are spent rather than recomputing it.
 593 2011-11-29 13:51:18 <gmaxwell> (though usually the cost of counting is high enough that it's better to just periodically recompute)
 594 2011-11-29 13:52:02 <gmaxwell> it would be useful if people were conducting DOS attacks that involved flooding nodes with syntatically valid transactions that use fantasy inputs.
 595 2011-11-29 13:52:06 <sipa> da2ce7: my point is that the idea of not needing to do any db write while processing transactions is not possible
 596 2011-11-29 13:52:16 <gmaxwell> but otherwise…
 597 2011-11-29 13:52:25 <makomk> The thing I've been thinking about bloom filters for is fast IsMine filtering on deeply embedded lightweight clients, actually.
 598 2011-11-29 13:53:15 <sipa> makomk: not sure if you gain that much compared to just a hashset
 599 2011-11-29 13:53:28 <makomk> Perhaps not, no.
 600 2011-11-29 13:53:36 <sipa> provided you're able to keep the set in memory
 601 2011-11-29 13:53:56 <sipa> if you're watching millions of addresses, and they are kept in a db on disk, a bloom filter would definitely help
 602 2011-11-29 13:56:06 <da2ce7> the best optimization is a way to qucikly verify most tx, and the unlucky ones we can spend a bit more time on....
 603 2011-11-29 13:56:48 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: but you can't quickly verify, you could only quickly exclude.
 604 2011-11-29 13:56:49 <da2ce7> however I don't know any other way of doing it other than having a bloom-map for standard tx and their ammounts.
 605 2011-11-29 13:57:10 darkee has joined
 606 2011-11-29 13:57:13 <sipa> da2ce7: even that would not avoid db writes for each spent txout
 607 2011-11-29 13:57:33 <sipa> and i assume most txs are valid, not invalid (in which case a quick bail-out would help)
 608 2011-11-29 13:57:49 [eval] has joined
 609 2011-11-29 13:58:13 <da2ce7> sipa: we can have a large bloom filter, then only commit the tx hash if it it a conflit in the filter...
 610 2011-11-29 13:58:23 <sipa> da2ce7: you don't get it
 611 2011-11-29 13:58:30 <gmaxwell> ...
 612 2011-11-29 13:58:32 <sipa> look at my example
 613 2011-11-29 13:58:33 <da2ce7> filter + modifcations...
 614 2011-11-29 13:58:46 <sipa> you cannot detect "conflicts"
 615 2011-11-29 13:59:07 <sipa> every spending puts the bloom filter for those prevouts in the "probably spent" state\
 616 2011-11-29 14:00:39 <da2ce7> so, maybe I missunderstand bloom filters... bit if I'm about to write a bit that is already set, can I tell that it is set, and say "bloom filter + these extra hashes"
 617 2011-11-29 14:01:02 <sipa> ok, step by step
 618 2011-11-29 14:01:05 <sipa> a valid tx comes in
 619 2011-11-29 14:01:13 <da2ce7> ya.
 620 2011-11-29 14:01:18 <sipa> for each of its inputs, we check the bloom filter
 621 2011-11-29 14:01:36 <sipa> in the best case, not all its bits are set
 622 2011-11-29 14:01:51 <sipa> so we have a guaranteed unspent prevout
 623 2011-11-29 14:02:07 <sipa> we lookup the prevout itself, and verify amounts and scripts; good
 624 2011-11-29 14:02:17 <sipa> everything went fine, this transaction is valid
 625 2011-11-29 14:02:24 <sipa> so what do we do?
 626 2011-11-29 14:03:20 <da2ce7> write the outputs to the bloom filter once it is in a block, I guess.
 627 2011-11-29 14:03:40 <sipa> indeed, mark the prevout's hash bits in the bloom filter
 628 2011-11-29 14:03:50 <TD> hmm
 629 2011-11-29 14:03:52 <TD> any git experts here?
 630 2011-11-29 14:04:08 <sipa> not expert, but i manage to use it
 631 2011-11-29 14:04:11 <da2ce7> if any of the outputs (unlikely) conflict with an exzisting hash bits, we log that hash to a 'also excluded' list.
 632 2011-11-29 14:04:30 <TD> i have cloned the main repo of bitcoinj to my local disk. now i'd like to switch to a clone of my personal clone instead.
 633 2011-11-29 14:04:32 <wereHamster> TD: <-
 634 2011-11-29 14:04:37 <sipa> da2ce7: but the point is that you must prevent *future* conflicts, that you do not know yet
 635 2011-11-29 14:04:39 <TD> is there a way to switch my local clone to a different remote repository?
 636 2011-11-29 14:04:59 <TD> i can do it just by recloning my remote repository then using patch/diff/mv :)
 637 2011-11-29 14:05:00 <da2ce7> sipa: how, we are only checking a list we already know...
 638 2011-11-29 14:05:06 <TD> might as well check if there's a magic command first
 639 2011-11-29 14:05:13 <wereHamster> TD: git remote add td <url of your personal repository>; git fetch td; git checkout ...
 640 2011-11-29 14:05:18 <da2ce7> we already know every hash in the bloom filter, we can check if there is any conflitcts or not.
 641 2011-11-29 14:05:31 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: I generate a new transaction which conflicts with your last one. You've never seen this transaction.
 642 2011-11-29 14:05:44 <wereHamster> TD: of if you want to permanently change the remote url: git remote set-url origin <some other url>
 643 2011-11-29 14:05:50 <sipa> da2ce7: ok, so let's continue; this was a hash that itself didn't conflict, we actually changed bits from zero to one in the bloom filter
 644 2011-11-29 14:06:03 <sipa> da2ce7: now a double spend arrives
 645 2011-11-29 14:06:05 <TD> wereHamster: ok i did the second command
 646 2011-11-29 14:06:16 <TD> wereHamster: i don't need to do anything to make it resync with server-side stuff?
 647 2011-11-29 14:06:17 <sipa> da2ce7: we again check its prevouts in the bloomfilter
 648 2011-11-29 14:06:27 <wereHamster> TD: git fetch origin
 649 2011-11-29 14:06:39 <sipa> da2ce7: problem... all bits are set
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 651 2011-11-29 14:06:50 <TD> hmm, ok, thanks
 652 2011-11-29 14:06:51 <sipa> da2ce7: what now?
 653 2011-11-29 14:07:15 <sipa> how do we verify whether this is a double spend, or an accidental collision in the bloom filter?
 654 2011-11-29 14:07:45 <wereHamster> TD: nice to see you again. Last time we met was quite a long time ago :) Do you work in zurich now?
 655 2011-11-29 14:08:12 <da2ce7> since we know that those bits corispond to a single output, or we would have listed both hashes in the 'also spent' list, we check it aganst the bits, and the 'also spent' if it conflitcs we know it is spent.
 656 2011-11-29 14:08:19 <TD> yep
 657 2011-11-29 14:08:21 <TD> i do indeed
 658 2011-11-29 14:08:34 <da2ce7> becasue as we made the bloom filter, we checked for conflitcts.
 659 2011-11-29 14:08:40 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: so you just throw out the transaction because its a hit in the filter?
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 661 2011-11-29 14:08:48 <gmaxwell> great. keep that pattern in mind.
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 666 2011-11-29 14:09:16 <TD> wereHamster: wine, right?
 667 2011-11-29 14:09:23 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: Now I generate a new completely valid transaction. But it just so happens by chance to have the same bits as a spent one. But you've never seen my transaction before.
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 669 2011-11-29 14:09:51 <da2ce7> ok, I've just worked out the problem.... ;)
 670 2011-11-29 14:09:53 <gmaxwell> So .. you do what you just said.. you check the bits (they match)... then you drop the transaction.
 671 2011-11-29 14:09:56 * da2ce7 is slow today.
 672 2011-11-29 14:09:59 <gmaxwell> okay. :)
 673 2011-11-29 14:10:06 OneFixt has joined
 674 2011-11-29 14:10:08 <gmaxwell> We all have our slow days.
 675 2011-11-29 14:10:21 <sipa> ok, glad i didn't make a mistake in my reasoning
 676 2011-11-29 14:10:26 <wereHamster> TD: yeah :)
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 679 2011-11-29 14:10:56 <da2ce7> what happens if we have a list of 'good tx' aka a list of hashes that we know conflit with the spent tx filter, however are not spent yet.
 680 2011-11-29 14:11:10 <da2ce7> so you have 'spent filter' + whitelist.
 681 2011-11-29 14:11:48 <gmaxwell> why bother with the spent filter at all. Just have the whitelist and remove things from it as they're spent?  But this still doen't save you... alas.
 682 2011-11-29 14:12:04 <gmaxwell> Because you'll still have to store/lookup to get the values to validate.
 683 2011-11-29 14:12:09 <sipa> to construct that, you need to iterate the entire set of unspent txouts after marking bits in the filter
 684 2011-11-29 14:12:25 <da2ce7> ya
 685 2011-11-29 14:12:30 <da2ce7> very expencive to make.
 686 2011-11-29 14:12:51 <sipa> O(n) times more expensive than just looking it up in the db
 687 2011-11-29 14:13:17 <gmaxwell> sure but after n transactions you get it back. ;)
 688 2011-11-29 14:13:34 <gmaxwell> (er, I mean you're even again ;) )
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 690 2011-11-29 14:16:17 <da2ce7> lol, you just have a large filter, and make the tx have to include more fees if they are spending an output that conflicts with the filter...
 691 2011-11-29 14:17:04 <sipa> that still requires you to keep a non-probabilistic data structure with all non-spend txouts
 692 2011-11-29 14:17:57 <gmaxwell> The key reason the lossy structure do not work here is that almost all requests will be valid.
 693 2011-11-29 14:18:24 <gmaxwell> They only save you time in the cases which should almost never happen.
 694 2011-11-29 14:18:48 <Diablo-D3> well guess fucking what
 695 2011-11-29 14:18:54 <Diablo-D3> the rich people have no decided to steal more of my money
 696 2011-11-29 14:19:03 <gmaxwell> And you can't flip it around because the space of invalid transactions is morally infinite... any reasonable bloom filter of invalid txn would have all its bits set. :)
 697 2011-11-29 14:19:06 <Diablo-D3> american airlines has filed for bankruptcy, and this headline is not a repeat from the 70s.
 698 2011-11-29 14:19:16 <Diablo-D3> lets bring on the fucking bailouts, you fucking fags
 699 2011-11-29 14:19:22 <Diablo-D3> I fucking double dog dare you
 700 2011-11-29 14:19:40 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: #AA is over -> there.
 701 2011-11-29 14:19:51 <sipa> one possibility is to not use hash functions, but an invertible mapping between the bits and the txouts
 702 2011-11-29 14:20:12 <sipa> so every time you mark bits in the filter, you can easily iterate possible conflicts with it
 703 2011-11-29 14:20:29 <sipa> but even if that's possible, it won't gain you anything
 704 2011-11-29 14:20:31 bitcoinbulletin has joined
 705 2011-11-29 14:21:30 <Diablo-D3> Im just tired of this shit
 706 2011-11-29 14:21:34 <Diablo-D3> I know a bailout is coming
 707 2011-11-29 14:21:41 <Diablo-D3> we bailed those fuckers out before, and we'll do it again
 708 2011-11-29 14:21:52 <Diablo-D3> the fucking sheeple will demand that their corporate overlords "fix' it
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 710 2011-11-29 14:23:00 <da2ce7> use a filter for only standard tx, where you map the ammount to the bit, then you can quickly validate a tx without random reads...
 711 2011-11-29 14:23:21 <da2ce7> in the case there are not any bit-hits.
 712 2011-11-29 14:23:25 <sipa> da2ce7: but you still need a write
 713 2011-11-29 14:23:26 <gmaxwell> sipa: I still think a minimal perfect hash for finding txouts in an 'archived-and-locked' blockchain would be useful and interesting. E.g. O(1) lookup on that? not there? must be invalid or more recent then do a logN lookup on more recent txn...
 714 2011-11-29 14:23:38 * Diablo-D3 just goes to bed
 715 2011-11-29 14:23:39 <Diablo-D3> night all
 716 2011-11-29 14:23:46 <sipa> gmaxwell: for archived stuff, sure
 717 2011-11-29 14:24:15 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: the amounts in non-standard txn aren't any different.
 718 2011-11-29 14:24:38 <da2ce7> we we can work out for certan if the tx are NOT in a block older than X
 719 2011-11-29 14:25:17 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: and you can't do that .. if there are two inputs and >=5 btc out....  how do you know the value of the inputs to do the lookup?
 720 2011-11-29 14:25:46 <gmaxwell> I1 + I2 >= 5 is the only invariant you know must be true.
 721 2011-11-29 14:25:58 <gmaxwell> But the inputs could be 0.1 and 20. (big fees)
 722 2011-11-29 14:26:34 <da2ce7> :(
 723 2011-11-29 14:27:16 <da2ce7> I guess, bitcoin isn't suited for probbalistic data structures...
 724 2011-11-29 14:27:30 <gmaxwell> (and that fact .. actually kinda sucks in terms of using fees as evidence for anti-ddos... since you'll have to lookup to know the fees.)
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 726 2011-11-29 14:30:31 <da2ce7> we need a non-probilistic lookup for every non-spent tx output, with it's script and ammount...
 727 2011-11-29 14:30:37 <da2ce7> and that is what we have already.
 728 2011-11-29 14:31:10 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: all you have to do is start attacking bitcoin with txn that have bogus inputs, then your filtering idea will have a purpose. :-/
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 733 2011-11-29 14:33:40 <da2ce7> gmaxwell: how large is the very good dertmerisitic data strurture for all the non-spent outputs and their scripts and ammounts?
 734 2011-11-29 14:33:57 <da2ce7> we are looking like 500mb now rite?
 735 2011-11-29 14:34:25 <gmaxwell> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom_filter#Probability_of_false_positives
 736 2011-11-29 14:34:36 <sipa> http://pastebin.com/7iKJkuqh
 737 2011-11-29 14:35:19 <sipa> da2ce7: current txouts compress to 126Mb
 738 2011-11-29 14:35:51 <da2ce7> so a little more that we would be happy to store all in ram...
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 742 2011-11-29 14:38:52 <da2ce7> well my other idea, well primarly designed for namecoin, was to include a Merkle tree of every block root-hash in the coinbase of every block.
 743 2011-11-29 14:39:56 <da2ce7> so by downloading the latest 100 blocks (or so, with a few sanity check), people can just download the list of every block hash. and be able to compute there isn't any errors in the list.
 744 2011-11-29 14:40:31 <da2ce7> thus allowing 'tx dns' systems, where we can lookup any tx just by finding it's merkle path.
 745 2011-11-29 14:41:04 <da2ce7> it should fit into one DNS sized packet :)
 746 2011-11-29 14:41:10 <UukGoblin> da2ce7, well, the root-hashes are relatively small
 747 2011-11-29 14:41:47 <UukGoblin> 10 years worth of blocks' hashes would be about 40MB
 748 2011-11-29 14:42:26 <da2ce7> sure, but to verifiy the list atm, I need to download every past block.
 749 2011-11-29 14:42:53 <UukGoblin> downloading just the block headers is what should happen, imho
 750 2011-11-29 14:43:03 <UukGoblin> and then look up txns via merkle branches like you said
 751 2011-11-29 14:43:21 <UukGoblin> (I'm no expert though)
 752 2011-11-29 14:43:24 <da2ce7> if the latest blocks included the a merkle root, I would be able to check if the block headers are valid or not.
 753 2011-11-29 14:44:24 <UukGoblin> ah, I see
 754 2011-11-29 14:44:29 <UukGoblin> (roughly)
 755 2011-11-29 14:46:10 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: I haxor your dns.
 756 2011-11-29 14:46:14 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: here is how:
 757 2011-11-29 14:46:20 <da2ce7> that is what I wanted the bloom filter originaly for; if we were using a large one, all you care about is if the tx is spent or not... so people build their own filter, and keep nothing more
 758 2011-11-29 14:46:29 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: I get a name. It gets mined in block 10.
 759 2011-11-29 14:46:47 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: then .. later it changes ownership to you... in block 10000000
 760 2011-11-29 14:47:04 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: I answer queries using block 10 as the result.
 761 2011-11-29 14:47:13 <da2ce7> yep, so the block 10 one is marked of in my bloom filter... and reject your queries...
 762 2011-11-29 14:47:14 <gmaxwell> (okay they expire, but same deal)
 763 2011-11-29 14:47:37 <da2ce7> and I don't care about the rare case of false positive.
 764 2011-11-29 14:47:43 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: ah you're assuming the client has been watching the whole network?
 765 2011-11-29 14:47:52 <gmaxwell> I have something better for you anyways.
 766 2011-11-29 14:47:58 <gmaxwell> Just commit all the open names.
 767 2011-11-29 14:48:23 <gmaxwell> then when you query a helpful node gives you the tree fragment connecting the name to the root of the a recent block.
 768 2011-11-29 14:48:33 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=21995.0
 769 2011-11-29 14:49:06 <da2ce7> hmmm
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 771 2011-11-29 14:50:13 <gmaxwell> You can even arrange the tree so that there can only be one location.. so someone couldn't fake a NXDOMAIN, they could only refuse to reply.
 772 2011-11-29 14:50:37 <gmaxwell> Though I suspect there may be stupid attacks that arise out of people intentionally choosing names that collide the hash.
 773 2011-11-29 14:51:42 <da2ce7> yeah... well I though that if you have a standard bloom filters, people would choose not to transfer the domain to a hash that conflits with a the bloom filter...
 774 2011-11-29 14:51:53 <da2ce7> otherwise nobody would accept the lookups.
 775 2011-11-29 14:52:08 <da2ce7> it is only on their own dissavantage.
 776 2011-11-29 14:52:50 <da2ce7> but you have the attack that people will see a tranfer, thne rush in a tx that has a higher-fee that conflits with it in the filter.
 777 2011-11-29 14:53:14 <gmaxwell> I suppose thats how you solve the problem I'm suggesting... limit the tree depth... some names would become unregisterable but its highly unlikely an honest user would ever encounter such a name.
 778 2011-11-29 14:55:42 <da2ce7> hmm...
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 789 2011-11-29 14:59:22 <da2ce7> well I've gotta prepare to go to london tonight...
 790 2011-11-29 14:59:25 <da2ce7> have a good one all...
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 792 2011-11-29 14:59:46 <UukGoblin> da2ce7, going for a beer? :-)
 793 2011-11-29 15:00:26 <da2ce7> :) UukGoblin maybe, when you going out? I'm in prauge atm... I'll be arriving in at arround 11pm
 794 2011-11-29 15:00:42 <UukGoblin> all pubs are closed at 11pm ;-[
 795 2011-11-29 15:00:48 <UukGoblin> perhaps thursday ;-)
 796 2011-11-29 15:00:56 <da2ce7> oh yeah, I'm so used to european times...
 797 2011-11-29 15:01:31 <wereHamster> is there a conference in prague right now?
 798 2011-11-29 15:01:40 <da2ce7> wereHamster: no, it is over...
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 800 2011-11-29 15:01:53 <wereHamster> was it any good for the bitcoin community?
 801 2011-11-29 15:01:55 <UukGoblin> how many people attended?
 802 2011-11-29 15:01:57 <UukGoblin> ;-]
 803 2011-11-29 15:02:02 <da2ce7> about 120
 804 2011-11-29 15:02:31 <da2ce7> I quite enjoyed it... I spent my entire time talking about Open Transctions tho.
 805 2011-11-29 15:02:53 <UukGoblin> :-)
 806 2011-11-29 15:03:55 * da2ce7 needs to find a hostel in london... hmmm...
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 808 2011-11-29 15:06:09 <UukGoblin> hrm, can't actually recommend any :-S
 809 2011-11-29 15:06:12 <sipa> really 120? :o
 810 2011-11-29 15:07:31 <da2ce7> sipa: I think so... that is what I beleve michael was saying it was arround.
 811 2011-11-29 15:08:52 <sipa> da2ce7: too bad your talk was cut off, by the way
 812 2011-11-29 15:09:15 <da2ce7> :S yeah, it was a little annoying. But I think that I got the gist across.
 813 2011-11-29 15:09:31 <sipa> i'm afraid many people don't grasp the concept
 814 2011-11-29 15:09:58 <da2ce7> well you cannot expect them to grasp bitcoin after one presentation either...
 815 2011-11-29 15:10:19 <da2ce7> all you can do is hopefully peak their intrest so they will spend the time to learn it for themselves.
 816 2011-11-29 15:10:31 <wereHamster> will there be any videos of the talks?
 817 2011-11-29 15:10:34 <da2ce7> yep
 818 2011-11-29 15:10:48 <da2ce7> they are going to eventualy put them up on youtube
 819 2011-11-29 15:11:01 <wereHamster> great. I forgot to send my grandma to take notes, she lives in prague :P
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 821 2011-11-29 15:11:44 <da2ce7> Ok, I'm going now... chat later guys.
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 873 2011-11-29 17:03:12 <gmaxwell> So— during an initial syncup.. bitcoin creates a whole pile of transaction log files.. which it deletes at the next startup.
 874 2011-11-29 17:03:27 <gmaxwell> Anyone know if it keeps file descriptors open for each of them?
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 877 2011-11-29 17:08:52 <sipa> gmaxwell: for the log files, no idea
 878 2011-11-29 17:09:27 <sipa> it seems to create a db transaction for each block processed, as it relies on being able to cancel that transaction when things go wrong
 879 2011-11-29 17:09:33 <gmaxwell> someone in #bitcoin had it crash during initial synchup with db::open() returning invalid argument .. which seems quite suspect.
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 898 2011-11-29 17:46:03 <casacius> Hey all, just wanted to throw out an idea and see if it had merit.
 899 2011-11-29 17:46:07 <gmaxwell> No.
 900 2011-11-29 17:46:11 <gmaxwell> (that was easy)
 901 2011-11-29 17:46:30 <casacius> I am new to the idea that you can take an EC point, "add" something to it, and get a new EC point, where the private key is the privkey of the first point plus whatever you added to it.
 902 2011-11-29 17:46:49 <sipa> casacius: it's pretty much just like numbers
 903 2011-11-29 17:47:08 <casacius> I don't understand the math well enough to know that's airtight, but I do see a lot of practical applications for that if that turns out to be the case.
 904 2011-11-29 17:47:09 <sipa> a private key is a number N, a public key is N times the generator point
 905 2011-11-29 17:47:44 <casacius> Here would be just one little application.  Right now we have wallet encryption.  And the keypool can only be topped up on an unencrypted wallet, right?
 906 2011-11-29 17:47:59 <sipa> if P1 is N1*G, and P2 is N2*G, then (P1+P2) = (N1+N2)*G
 907 2011-11-29 17:48:12 <sipa> thus P1+P2 is the pubkey corresponding to the private key N1+N2
 908 2011-11-29 17:48:18 <sipa> casacius: right
 909 2011-11-29 17:48:23 <gmaxwell> Yes, what you're thinking could be done. But thats a really narrow improvement, and potentially not worth the testing/qa burden.
 910 2011-11-29 17:48:27 <casacius> What if an encrypted wallet kept a point unencrypted (but kept the N encrypted), it would be possible to add keys to the wallet.
 911 2011-11-29 17:48:38 <casacius> gmaxwell: Yeah, I'm with you, I believe you are right on that point.
 912 2011-11-29 17:48:40 <sipa> casacius: it does
 913 2011-11-29 17:48:47 <sipa> casacius: only N is stored encrypted
 914 2011-11-29 17:48:47 <casacius> (re: why bother, too difficult)
 915 2011-11-29 17:48:50 <makomk> This was actually considered when wallet encryption was first implemented IIRC.
 916 2011-11-29 17:49:06 <gmaxwell> But, yes, your understanding sounds fine. That could be done.
 917 2011-11-29 17:49:10 Kiba` is now known as kiba
 918 2011-11-29 17:49:19 <casacius> but given that... why don't I just start a two-factor wallet production service now, where I create N1, and deliver an open source program so users can generate N2
 919 2011-11-29 17:49:37 <casacius> and I give them N1*G
 920 2011-11-29 17:49:41 <casacius> and then sign their transactions
 921 2011-11-29 17:49:50 <gmaxwell> Because you can't spend without having both N1/N2 in your hot little hands when you sign the tn.
 922 2011-11-29 17:49:51 <casacius> and then send them a backup CD containing N1 in the mail (so it's out of band)
 923 2011-11-29 17:50:19 <gmaxwell> ah you can do that.. but why?
 924 2011-11-29 17:50:32 <casacius> OK, so I need both N1 and N2...somewhat limiting I suppose.... i don't imagine there is a way to create a signature with N2, and "add" something from N1 to it?
 925 2011-11-29 17:50:45 <casacius> gmaxwell: you are asking why I would do which?
 926 2011-11-29 17:51:02 <sipa> multisignature allows you to do the same thing, without needing both keys in the same hands at the same time
 927 2011-11-29 17:51:18 <gmaxwell> You could generate a half wallet, but it's useless without the other half in your hands at the same time. I was wondering why you'd do that.
 928 2011-11-29 17:51:20 <casacius> Even if I need N1 and N2, at the very least, the user's exposure is limited ot the balance of the single address that N2 encumbers...rather than his whole wallet.
 929 2011-11-29 17:51:24 cosurgi has joined
 930 2011-11-29 17:51:44 <sipa> casacius: love your coins, by the way - got myself a 1BTC one at the prague conference :)
 931 2011-11-29 17:51:45 <gmaxwell> The whole motivation for the multisig stuff / op_eval etc/ is to make the objective there possible.
 932 2011-11-29 17:51:50 <casacius> gmaxwell: someone could get a 100% secure paper wallet, simply by combining two half-wallets from two sources
 933 2011-11-29 17:52:08 <casacius> sipa: awesome, thanks
 934 2011-11-29 17:52:25 <sipa> casacius: the general idea is: yes, you can do transfer funds by passing private keys around (partial ones, full ones, ...) instead of using the scripts in transactions
 935 2011-11-29 17:52:26 <gmaxwell> Yes, they could have that. But they couldn't spend from it without putting both halves on one computer.
 936 2011-11-29 17:52:28 <casacius> i agree on the multisig and op_eval, but i'm surprised to know that i could do something like this right now with what we have
 937 2011-11-29 17:52:44 <sipa> but doing it through scripts allows you to do it with less trust
 938 2011-11-29 17:52:56 <casacius> Agreed they would have to put both halves on one computer, their exposure wouldn't be zero but it would be grossly minimized
 939 2011-11-29 17:53:15 <gmaxwell> casacius: well, except you cant... without multisig both private keys need to make their way to a single trusted machine to spend, unfortunately.
 940 2011-11-29 17:53:26 <gavinandresen> casacius: see the discussion here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=19080.80
 941 2011-11-29 17:53:42 <casacius> here is another application I thought of.  I could sell 1000 BTC gold bars, but people get suspicious that I could burn them.  As an option...
 942 2011-11-29 17:53:51 <gmaxwell> "minimized" depends on the threat model, e.g. under the assumption that the computer has malware which autosteals keys.. it's not good.
 943 2011-11-29 17:54:07 <gmaxwell> casacius: yes, key splitting for you would be quite good I think.
 944 2011-11-29 17:54:08 <gavinandresen> ... it probably IS possible to split one ECDSA key into two parts, and then generate a valid signature using each of the two parts independently.   But it is tricky.
 945 2011-11-29 17:54:21 <casacius> they could send me G * sha256(passphrase), call that N1, and I could send the funds to the bitcoin address derived from their N1 plus my N2.
 946 2011-11-29 17:54:31 casacius is now known as casascius
 947 2011-11-29 17:54:38 <casascius> not sure why i mistyped my own name =)
 948 2011-11-29 17:54:52 <gmaxwell> casascius: yes sir. That would work fine.
 949 2011-11-29 17:55:08 <casascius> If I did that, one could buy my gold bars without any threat that I could steal their money
 950 2011-11-29 17:55:23 <casascius> people don't worry about 1 BTC coins, but high value bars, makes people think about it more
 951 2011-11-29 17:55:55 <gmaxwell> though they couldn't sell the bar to someone else without taking a risk.
 952 2011-11-29 17:56:04 <gmaxwell> (er without that person taking a risk)
 953 2011-11-29 17:56:34 <casascius> gmaxwell: If I laser etched on the bar a hash of g * sha256(passphrase), they could prove they properly conveyed passphrase by allowing their buyer to recompute it
 954 2011-11-29 17:56:41 <casascius> (I just got a laser etching/cutting table a couple weeks ago....way sweet)
 955 2011-11-29 17:56:56 <gmaxwell> casascius: yes, but the seller could steal the coins out from under them
 956 2011-11-29 17:57:14 <casascius> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53203.msg634255#msg634255
 957 2011-11-29 17:57:24 <casascius> gmaxwell: how would the seller steal?  tehy would need to compromise my hologram to compute N2
 958 2011-11-29 17:57:47 <gmaxwell> ah .. so you'd use those on the bar too? okay.
 959 2011-11-29 17:57:58 <gmaxwell> Then you could conspire with the seller. ;) (but yes, there you go)
 960 2011-11-29 17:58:33 <casascius> presumably, i'd want to conspire with someone to create some kickass secure bars...i provide n1, they provide n2, perhaps on a bar that holds 2 holograms
 961 2011-11-29 17:58:55 <gmaxwell> You don't print g * sha256(passphrase) .. you print N2 and the address.. and they see if they can compute the address themselves.
 962 2011-11-29 17:58:58 <casascius> i wouldn't bother with this for a 1 btc coin, but 100+ or 1000+ it's actually not a bad idea
 963 2011-11-29 17:59:51 <casascius> somehow I imagined that the passphrase should be etched on the bar, so the bar itself is the full bearer item, it's just not available to me as the manufacturer and potential knower of the number under the hologram
 964 2011-11-29 18:00:40 <casascius> so i suppose what to etch on the bar would be up to the person who did it, based on their security needs, hoping that it would be enough to prove to their buyer that the passphrase was good without needing to reveal N2
 965 2011-11-29 18:00:52 <[Tycho]> casascius: do you use some kind of powder or paste to etch metals ?
 966 2011-11-29 18:01:00 <gmaxwell> Wortks either way but you already need to print the address to make it easy to look up the balance.
 967 2011-11-29 18:01:15 <casascius> the only thing that sucks, is I'm the one that owns the etcher =) so someone else would need to have some sort of expensive investment to add their secret to the bar (unless they used a simple sticker)
 968 2011-11-29 18:01:26 <gmaxwell> casascius: also, only giving N2 + address would make someone trying to bruteforce the password do more work.
 969 2011-11-29 18:01:40 <gmaxwell> oh you mean putting the cleartext on it.
 970 2011-11-29 18:01:45 <casascius> [tycho]: I have a spray (expensive - $75/can) that creates a reactive layer on the metal, and then I can laser that.  WIthout that layer, the laser I have has no effect on the metal
 971 2011-11-29 18:02:04 <gmaxwell> Obviously you need a bigger laser.
 972 2011-11-29 18:02:05 <gmaxwell> ;)
 973 2011-11-29 18:02:13 <sipa> mounted an a shark
 974 2011-11-29 18:02:15 <casascius> i just need to make more money selling bitcoins and then maybe it will happen
 975 2011-11-29 18:02:29 <casascius> bitcoin money bought this machine
 976 2011-11-29 18:02:41 <gmaxwell> casascius: you could make a place to affix a sticker at least.
 977 2011-11-29 18:02:54 <[Tycho]> What's happened with l0ss site ? Those graphs were so nice...
 978 2011-11-29 18:03:03 <casascius> The bottom of the bar is flat and bare, a sticker would fit there.  (it would be unsightly, but then again it's the bottom)
 979 2011-11-29 18:03:41 eueueue has joined
 980 2011-11-29 18:03:48 <gmaxwell> casascius: perhaps you could come up with a less unsightly sticker design that the buyer could print without having sharks and lasers? e.g. a transparent sticker.
 981 2011-11-29 18:03:50 rdponticelli_ is now known as rdponticelli
 982 2011-11-29 18:04:29 <casascius> gmaxwell: yeah, they have clear labels at officemax....they also have inkjet printable "gold foil" (but it's not real gold, and looks pretty fake when stuck on a gold plated bar)
 983 2011-11-29 18:04:53 <casascius> what would be really sweet is if some other company made some of these (e.g. Bitbills), and we secured each others products
 984 2011-11-29 18:04:57 <gmaxwell> e.g. could you get some better goild foil stickers made and just send them with the bar?
 985 2011-11-29 18:05:11 <gmaxwell> yes, thats a possibility too.
 986 2011-11-29 18:05:37 <casascius> for example, if bitbills or someone got the same 1" round stickers as I did, and I had gold bars made with 2 receptacles...they add one, I add one, and I laser-etch the resulting bitcoin address onto the bar
 987 2011-11-29 18:06:08 <sipa> a receptacle... is that english, or a hybrid between a tentacle and a receptable?
 988 2011-11-29 18:06:11 <casascius> (though I don't know about bitbills, they seem alive but not producing anything)
 989 2011-11-29 18:06:14 <gmaxwell> why stop at two. ;)
 990 2011-11-29 18:07:11 <casascius> gmaxwell: I suppose the more you get, the more inconvenient the redemption (and the greater chance that one of the codes is missing or corrupt and the balance unredeemable)... a balance between need for security
 991 2011-11-29 18:08:18 <casascius> A half-wallet might also be valuable for creating a MyBitcoin-like service
 992 2011-11-29 18:08:33 <casascius> Haven't really thought it through,
 993 2011-11-29 18:08:53 <casascius> but it seems like it would allow a user to control the funds, while enjoying the convenience of a web based wallet
 994 2011-11-29 18:10:41 Kolky has joined
 995 2011-11-29 18:12:36 <casascius> So here might be a very safe way to produce a paper wallet.  Consider Bitaddress.org, which prints a perfectly good paper wallet, but is vulnerable if the machine has (for example) a screen capture trojan.
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 997 2011-11-29 18:13:16 <casascius> Suppose I release an iPhone app that allows someone to type in a passphrase, and it computes G * sha256(passphrase) and e-mails it to the user.
 998 2011-11-29 18:13:38 <casascius> (or I create a web service that does the same thing, but they send me their passphrase via SMS, so it is out-of-band with respect to the potentially compromised computer that will be doing the printing).
 999 2011-11-29 18:13:57 <casascius> They go to Bitaddress.org and paste in an ASCII-armored G*sha256(passphrase).
1000 2011-11-29 18:14:26 <casascius> They get a paper wallet, whose private keys can only be redeemed in conjunction with the passphrase.
1001 2011-11-29 18:14:50 <casascius> The paper wallet might have a blank space where they are instructed to write the passphrase so their wallet will be complete.
1002 2011-11-29 18:15:13 <casascius> Tada, 100% secure paper wallet for dummies.
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1006 2011-11-29 18:16:46 <casascius> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/receptacle - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/receptacle
1007 2011-11-29 18:16:49 <casascius> oops
1008 2011-11-29 18:17:13 <casascius> : one that receives and contains something : CONTAINER
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1012 2011-11-29 18:26:36 <imsaguy2> nice job with git
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1024 2011-11-29 19:14:20 <Eliel> casascius: something more to consider. rather than using a simple sha256 for transforming the users passphrase to the other part, consider using an algorithm that'll do that but take a minute or two to calculate.
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1062 2011-11-29 19:45:12 <klawd> hi!
1063 2011-11-29 19:45:24 <klawd> im searching for noodles skute
1064 2011-11-29 19:45:26 <klawd> anyone seen him?
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1070 2011-11-29 20:00:16 <sipa> who?
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1073 2011-11-29 20:07:30 <jgarzik> sipa: [Noodles]
1074 2011-11-29 20:07:33 <jgarzik> iirc
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1246 2011-11-29 21:03:12 hoijui has joined
1247 2011-11-29 21:04:47 <hoijui> i tired compiling git(hub) master on latest ubuntu (11.10), and it seems to fail cause the version of libdb required to build (4.8) is not in repo anymore, and the ones in repo seems to be incompatible
1248 2011-11-29 21:05:04 <lolcat> hoijui: Oh noes
1249 2011-11-29 21:05:07 <hoijui> are there plans to move to a newer version, or support multiple versions of the lib?
1250 2011-11-29 21:05:52 <hoijui> just asking cause.. it is usually good to be easily compilable on ubuntu, to get lots of testers and such
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1253 2011-11-29 21:07:16 <hoijui> sudo apt-get install libdb4.8++-dev
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1255 2011-11-29 21:07:19 <hoijui> E: Package 'libdb4.8++-dev' has no installation candidate
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1259 2011-11-29 21:07:56 <hoijui> current ubuntu version is: libdb5.1-dev
1260 2011-11-29 21:08:19 <lolcat> ahh
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1263 2011-11-29 21:08:35 <lolcat> hoijui: download a deb and do dpkg -i --force-all blah.deb
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1266 2011-11-29 21:09:31 <hoijui> lolcat, ok
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1268 2011-11-29 21:09:35 <sipa> hoijui: just use 5.1
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1270 2011-11-29 21:09:37 <sipa> it will work
1271 2011-11-29 21:09:44 <hoijui> sipa, does not so for me
1272 2011-11-29 21:09:50 <sipa> what's the problem?
1273 2011-11-29 21:09:59 <hoijui> first, there is no db_cxx.h header in 5.1
1274 2011-11-29 21:09:59 <sipa> (i compile it on 11.10 myself)
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1277 2011-11-29 21:10:13 <hoijui> and if
1278 2011-11-29 21:10:26 <sipa> you need libdb5.1++-dev
1279 2011-11-29 21:10:40 <sipa> don't forget the ++
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1284 2011-11-29 21:11:44 <hoijui> ahh
1285 2011-11-29 21:11:55 <hoijui> i only installed libdb-dev
1286 2011-11-29 21:13:31 <hoijui> ahh.. there is also libdb++-dev.. ok :D sorry then!
1287 2011-11-29 21:13:39 <sipa> np
1288 2011-11-29 21:14:23 <hoijui> would it make sense to replace the libdb4.8++-dev with libdb++-dev
1289 2011-11-29 21:14:28 <hoijui> in the install instructions?
1290 2011-11-29 21:14:48 <hoijui> (for compiling)\
1291 2011-11-29 21:14:48 <sipa> the problem is that bdb libraries are not backward compatible
1292 2011-11-29 21:14:58 <hoijui> ahh
1293 2011-11-29 21:15:10 <sipa> if you compile bitcoin against 5.1, it will create files that will not work anymore on 4.8
1294 2011-11-29 21:15:13 <hoijui> so for people with default versions older then that..
1295 2011-11-29 21:15:19 <hoijui> ah ok
1296 2011-11-29 21:18:35 genjix has joined
1297 2011-11-29 21:19:11 <casascius> You know what this private key adding thing means?  I could go and probably make "bitcoin bills" for pennies
1298 2011-11-29 21:19:21 <genjix> hey casascius
1299 2011-11-29 21:19:30 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1300 2011-11-29 21:19:32 <genjix> i got a coin. was very brilliant and shiny
1301 2011-11-29 21:19:35 <casascius> I could go hire some company to produce high quality cheap bitcoin bills, like lottery tickets, and not care if they keep the private keys, because they'll need a "control number" on them which i will just overprint
1302 2011-11-29 21:19:51 <genjix> it's darkened a lot now from either my handling it or oxidisation :)
1303 2011-11-29 21:20:01 <genjix> but it's super being able to hold a bitcoin
1304 2011-11-29 21:20:02 <casascius> genjix: cool!  i am glad they are getting around!
1305 2011-11-29 21:20:16 <casascius> I believe that diluted brass polish will restore it...
1306 2011-11-29 21:20:32 <genjix> yeah they were crowd drawers for people that had some
1307 2011-11-29 21:20:35 <casascius> I have not tested it against the labels, but I have tested it against the coins, and it restores it within minutes
1308 2011-11-29 21:20:40 <genjix> everyone (including me) wanted to touch one
1309 2011-11-29 21:21:01 <genjix> molecula r gave me one as a present
1310 2011-11-29 21:21:14 <casascius> I assume they would have sold well if someone were there selling them.... there just aren't that many cause they are hard to make.  but this whole thing about being able to add two private keys together...means i could probably completely outsource the production and have them made cheaply in bulk
1311 2011-11-29 21:21:23 <genjix> i dont think i ever got a better present in many years
1312 2011-11-29 21:21:31 <sipa> casascius: don't add them together - multiply
1313 2011-11-29 21:21:33 <genjix> you should promote them that way :) as presents
1314 2011-11-29 21:21:47 <casascius> sipa: gotcha...=)
1315 2011-11-29 21:21:54 <sipa> otherwise if someone had two of your coins, they could subtract the keys and get your private key out of ot
1316 2011-11-29 21:22:17 <sipa> wait that's not entirely correct
1317 2011-11-29 21:22:21 <sipa> anyway, multiply!
1318 2011-11-29 21:22:28 <casascius> when the time comes i will probably help with the math...though...i anticipate using unique keys for both halves
1319 2011-11-29 21:22:36 <casascius> by "adding" I just mean conceptually, not mathematically
1320 2011-11-29 21:22:37 <sipa> EC point division is computationally infeasible
1321 2011-11-29 21:22:47 <casascius> how about "marrying"
1322 2011-11-29 21:22:52 <casascius> that might make better sense
1323 2011-11-29 21:23:16 <casascius> anyway I'm going to call a lotto printing company right now
1324 2011-11-29 21:23:25 <sipa> wait, just a second
1325 2011-11-29 21:23:28 <gmaxwell> sipa: it is adding. The private key is multipled with the generator, of course.
1326 2011-11-29 21:23:30 <sipa> what exactly do you plan?
1327 2011-11-29 21:23:57 <casascius> i plan on getting scratchoff tickets made by a manufacturer who puts a half paper wallet under the scratchoff
1328 2011-11-29 21:24:00 <casascius> and i overprint the other half on the exterior of the ticket
1329 2011-11-29 21:24:11 <casascius> i haven't figured out the math, but am interested in at least asking about pricing
1330 2011-11-29 21:25:07 <gmaxwell> Pub3 = Pub1 (Sec1*g) + Pub2 (Sec2*g) ; Sec3 = Sec1+Sec2;
1331 2011-11-29 21:27:19 <genjix> casascius: although i'd prefer the esperanto "forteco per nombroj" over the latin "vires in numeris"
1332 2011-11-29 21:27:22 <genjix> :)
1333 2011-11-29 21:27:48 * sipa likes the latin
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1335 2011-11-29 21:28:17 <genjix> otherwise they're very well done.
1336 2011-11-29 21:28:33 <casascius> thanks
1337 2011-11-29 21:28:33 <genjix> i fidget/play around with it a lot
1338 2011-11-29 21:28:35 <casascius> :)
1339 2011-11-29 21:28:59 <genjix> someone played a trick though at the conference
1340 2011-11-29 21:29:28 <genjix> they had redeemed the coin, and someone was saying how they would accept cascasius coins as payment (not worried about forged coins)
1341 2011-11-29 21:29:38 <sipa> yeah
1342 2011-11-29 21:29:42 <sipa> it was visible though
1343 2011-11-29 21:29:44 <genjix> the guy asked if he'd take this coin (it looked legit at first glance)
1344 2011-11-29 21:29:45 <sipa> but not very visible
1345 2011-11-29 21:29:53 <genjix> yep sipa was there too
1346 2011-11-29 21:31:07 <sipa> i didn't realize the pun in "vires in numeris" until some line ago here, though :$
1347 2011-11-29 21:31:30 <genjix> what is the pun? i googled it and it means "strength in numbers"
1348 2011-11-29 21:31:32 Sedra- has joined
1349 2011-11-29 21:32:05 <sipa> yes, i knew the latin saying, but only interpreted it in the original meaning (where numbers stands for "many")
1350 2011-11-29 21:32:17 <sipa> not as in maths
1351 2011-11-29 21:32:28 <genjix> ahhhhhhh
1352 2011-11-29 21:32:39 * genjix *something went off*
1353 2011-11-29 21:33:09 <sipa> it's genius :p
1354 2011-11-29 21:33:52 <helo> i wonder if "numeris" can be interpreted as "numerous" or "numerals"
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1356 2011-11-29 21:34:12 <helo> as "numbers" can
1357 2011-11-29 21:34:16 <genjix> "strength in mathematics"
1358 2011-11-29 21:34:22 <genjix> i think that's the pun
1359 2011-11-29 21:34:58 <genjix> hmm true. in esperanto they have nombroj (amount) and numeroj (numerals)
1360 2011-11-29 21:39:16 <helo> i suppose "strength in amount" still works, as the amount of keyspace is the real strength
1361 2011-11-29 21:40:17 <sipa> a keyspace of 2^80 would work as well
1362 2011-11-29 21:40:36 <sipa> the strength comes from the use of cryptography in general
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1364 2011-11-29 21:41:37 <graingert> why does the installer exe extract a load of src files
1365 2011-11-29 21:41:43 <graingert> cpp/h
1366 2011-11-29 21:41:48 <graingert> (windows)
1367 2011-11-29 21:42:29 <phantomcircuit> it's the full source iirc
1368 2011-11-29 21:42:33 <phantomcircuit> or it was at some point
1369 2011-11-29 21:42:54 <graingert> the wallet needed to be rewritten dialogue
1370 2011-11-29 21:42:58 <graingert> makes a very bad sound
1371 2011-11-29 21:43:03 <graingert> and uses the wrong icon
1372 2011-11-29 21:43:09 <graingert> for something that isn't an issue
1373 2011-11-29 21:43:20 <graingert> ie error dialogue, should have been info
1374 2011-11-29 21:44:06 <graingert> yes it does seem to install the src
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1383 2011-11-29 22:15:41 <hoijui> i had to install package libminiupnpc-dev to get header miniupnpc/miniwget.h
1384 2011-11-29 22:15:56 <hoijui> libminiupnpc-dev_1.5-2ubuntu2_i386.deb
1385 2011-11-29 22:16:04 <hoijui> then it failed to compile with:
1386 2011-11-29 22:16:19 <hoijui> http://pastebin.com/gRaFQyqM
1387 2011-11-29 22:18:50 <rdponticelli> hoijui: You can install without upnp, if you don't need it...
1388 2011-11-29 22:19:02 <rdponticelli> Just pass USE_UPNP=
1389 2011-11-29 22:19:10 <hoijui> ok :-)
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1392 2011-11-29 22:20:25 <sipa> k
1393 2011-11-29 22:20:39 <hoijui> i use that as argument to qmake?
1394 2011-11-29 22:20:50 Detritus has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1395 2011-11-29 22:20:52 <hoijui> ... it still prints: Project MESSAGE: Building with UPNP support
1396 2011-11-29 22:21:29 <hoijui> ahh
1397 2011-11-29 22:21:47 <hoijui> make USE_UPNP=0
1398 2011-11-29 22:21:52 <hoijui> .. nope, neither that
1399 2011-11-29 22:22:11 <rdponticelli> No, the last one builds it, but make it not to use by default
1400 2011-11-29 22:22:30 <hoijui> ah ok
1401 2011-11-29 22:22:51 <rdponticelli> Try compile with the first one, I think there's a bug in the notification?
1402 2011-11-29 22:22:59 <hoijui> qmake -set USE_UPNP 0
1403 2011-11-29 22:23:03 <rdponticelli> Or try USE_UPNP=-
1404 2011-11-29 22:23:21 <hoijui> hmm strange
1405 2011-11-29 22:23:37 <sipa> try USE_UPNP=-
1406 2011-11-29 22:23:39 <hoijui> to qmake?
1407 2011-11-29 22:23:43 <sipa> it will say it builds with and without
1408 2011-11-29 22:23:49 <sipa> but it actually builds without
1409 2011-11-29 22:24:06 <hoijui> ahh k :D yeap it does
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1415 2011-11-29 22:35:36 <hoijui> yeahh.. build finnished :-)
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1418 2011-11-29 22:36:06 <hoijui> so there are these two problems for ubuntu 11.10 users
1419 2011-11-29 22:36:26 <hoijui> also runs..
1420 2011-11-29 22:36:39 <hoijui> will try it out an other day.. thanks for the help :-)
1421 2011-11-29 22:36:43 <hoijui> bye!
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