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 33 2011-11-30 01:37:31 <AlexWaters> does anyone know who I would talk to in order to get a username change on the bitcointalk.org forums?
 34 2011-11-30 01:37:44 <sipa> theymos
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 37 2011-11-30 01:38:07 <AlexWaters> sipa: thanks
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 41 2011-11-30 01:56:00 <graingert> tcatm: why doesn't wiki.bitcoin.org point to bitcoin.it ?
 42 2011-11-30 01:56:07 <graingert> and forums.bitcoin.org etv
 43 2011-11-30 01:56:09 <graingert> etc*
 44 2011-11-30 01:56:22 <graingert> is it that they are not endorsed?
 45 2011-11-30 01:57:09 <luke-jr> graingert: because bitcoin.org has an "official" ring to it, and the lack of centralization is important
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 47 2011-11-30 01:57:24 <luke-jr> better to stress that there is no central Bitcoin organization/site
 48 2011-11-30 01:57:31 <luke-jr> by having them all diverse
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 51 2011-11-30 01:58:47 <graingert> the wiki isn't even linked off the page
 52 2011-11-30 01:58:52 <graingert> seems a little odd
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 55 2011-11-30 01:59:49 <luke-jr> it's not? o.O
 56 2011-11-30 01:59:54 <luke-jr> yes it is…
 57 2011-11-30 02:00:06 <graingert> ah I was reading comminity
 58 2011-11-30 02:00:10 <graingert> community*
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 75 2011-11-30 02:45:59 <CIA-100> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r8203651 / benchmark/getter.js : Added benchmark for getters/setters. - http://git.io/O5ez4A
 76 2011-11-30 02:46:00 <CIA-100> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * rb1a3fcf / (7 files in 4 dirs): Switch from bigint to bignum. - http://git.io/wCU0iQ
 77 2011-11-30 02:46:02 <CIA-100> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r1d12e1a / lib/util.js : Use bitwise shift instead of multiplication when decoding diffbits. - http://git.io/0_3rcw
 78 2011-11-30 02:46:03 <CIA-100> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r93c3881 / test/script.js : Fixed test cases, new behavior is actually correct. - http://git.io/J3GIUw
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123 2011-11-30 06:29:24 <Diablo-D3> ;;ticker
124 2011-11-30 06:29:25 <gribble> Best bid: 2.7853, Best ask: 2.78852, Bid-ask spread: 0.00322, Last trade: 2.78852, 24 hour volume: 112068, 24 hour low: 2.6512, 24 hour high: 2.981
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137 2011-11-30 07:16:08 <Raccoon> http://www.ustream.tv/occupyoakland
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160 2011-11-30 09:07:11 <tcatm> sipa, jgarzik, gavinandresen: do we want to link to contributors' github profiles on bitcoin.org/about.html? ( https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/pull/10 )
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167 2011-11-30 09:26:32 <Raccoon> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/occupylacivicengagement
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198 2011-11-30 11:12:17 <Raccoon> /box Mayor of L.A. press statement, soon. http://www.ustream.tv/occupyoakland
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219 2011-11-30 12:03:04 <Mqrius> Can someone remind me why bitcoin uses the hash of the public key as an address, and not just the public key itself? I'm sure there was a use besides the public key being rather long...
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221 2011-11-30 12:03:57 <kinlo> you're answering your question yourself
222 2011-11-30 12:04:14 <kinlo> the bitcoin addresses must be short
223 2011-11-30 12:04:30 <kinlo> the entire public key would be too large to use as an addres
224 2011-11-30 12:05:35 <Mqrius> Is there any other use?
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227 2011-11-30 12:10:59 <sipa> Mqrius: yes, security
228 2011-11-30 12:11:11 <Mqrius> sipa: How does it add security?
229 2011-11-30 12:11:30 <sipa> if i know your public key, i "only" need to crack ECDSA to find your private key
230 2011-11-30 12:12:05 <sipa> if i know its hash, it would require both constructing a public key that hashes to the given value, and cracking ecdsa
231 2011-11-30 12:12:40 <sipa> that's of course quite theoretical, but e.g. ECC is vulnerable to quantum computing, while SHA isn't (or at least far less so)
232 2011-11-30 12:12:49 <Mqrius> Hmm. Bit of a hypothetical situation though, indeed.
233 2011-11-30 12:12:54 <Mqrius> Is it? Didn't know
234 2011-11-30 12:13:23 <Mqrius> (Ah right, thanks wikipedia :))
235 2011-11-30 12:14:12 <lianj> also you have to provide your public key to use coins you own
236 2011-11-30 12:14:26 <Mqrius> (I wonder if they're going to get any shor's algorithm implemented soon that does anything else than factoring 15 in a precompiled algorithm.)
237 2011-11-30 12:14:31 <sipa> lianj: in practice, yes; in theory, no :)
238 2011-11-30 12:15:03 <lianj> great generic answer :>
239 2011-11-30 12:15:13 <Mqrius> In practice you supply your private key, and the software does the rest
240 2011-11-30 12:15:26 <da2ce7> :)
241 2011-11-30 12:15:43 <sipa> No, I was referring to a technique called "key recovery", which allows you to reconstruct a public key based on the message and the signature
242 2011-11-30 12:16:07 <sipa> so you use the private key to create the signature, and the verifying reconstructs your public key, and checks that it hashes to the given address
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244 2011-11-30 12:16:17 <sipa> of course, that's currently not possible in bitcoin scripts
245 2011-11-30 12:16:30 <lianj> ok, then you would still know the public key
246 2011-11-30 12:16:56 <sipa> yes, once you spent funds that were sent to a given address, its public key is revealed
247 2011-11-30 12:17:01 <sipa> *spend
248 2011-11-30 12:17:53 <lianj> yea, so it cant be a security feature that pubkeys should be unkown
249 2011-11-30 12:20:21 <Mqrius> lianj: It is if you never use the same address twice.
250 2011-11-30 12:20:47 <lianj> ah, good point
251 2011-11-30 12:22:07 <sipa> it's still a concern - miners could collude to prevent your tx from ending up in the block chain, and try to crack ECDSA in the mean time
252 2011-11-30 12:22:18 <sipa> but that's even more hypothetical
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254 2011-11-30 12:24:17 <lianj> or crack ecdsa of ever 50btc from a found block
255 2011-11-30 12:25:01 <sipa> good point
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274 2011-11-30 13:28:12 <Raccoon> Interesting.  Free Practical Cryptography Course presented by Professor Dan Boneh and Stanford University.  Includes video lectures, quizzes and light programming assignments.  Everybody should sign up; Class begins Jan 2012.  http://www.crypto-class.org/
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283 2011-11-30 13:47:20 <UukGoblin> Raccoon, nice
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309 2011-11-30 15:10:51 <jgarzik> tcatm: <shrug>
310 2011-11-30 15:11:22 <jgarzik> tcatm: while I don't see anything wrong with linking to github profiles, I personally don't see much value or point
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331 2011-11-30 16:23:50 <graingert> tcatm: hellooo
332 2011-11-30 16:23:55 <graingert> added gravatars
333 2011-11-30 16:23:58 <graingert> (woot)
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336 2011-11-30 16:31:51 <tcatm> graingert: img tags use src=, not href=
337 2011-11-30 16:32:05 <graingert> durp
338 2011-11-30 16:32:12 <graingert> I know that
339 2011-11-30 16:32:20 <graingert> sigh
340 2011-11-30 16:32:23 <graingert> one second
341 2011-11-30 16:33:41 <graingert> fixed
342 2011-11-30 16:34:05 <graingert> I'm too used to a shiney IDE that tells me these things
343 2011-11-30 16:34:18 <graingert> but thought "hey it's only two lines what could go wrong"
344 2011-11-30 16:34:38 <graingert> "I'll do it in the github editor to save time"
345 2011-11-30 16:37:31 <graingert> tcatm: ^
346 2011-11-30 16:38:42 <tcatm> works now
347 2011-11-30 16:39:55 <graingert> awesome
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351 2011-11-30 16:59:49 <ajf> Wow
352 2011-11-30 16:59:57 <ajf> 0.5 looks so much better than 0.3.22
353 2011-11-30 16:59:59 <ajf> :)
354 2011-11-30 17:00:13 <ajf> gotta give you guys credit for that :)
355 2011-11-30 17:02:05 <sipa> the new interface was mostly wumpus' work
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357 2011-11-30 17:03:55 <ajf> well, thank you wumpus :)
358 2011-11-30 17:04:07 <ajf> I was going to help myself, actually, and I downloaded the source
359 2011-11-30 17:04:12 <ajf> but dependencies are so painful D:
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368 2011-11-30 17:15:34 <graingert> tabs tabs tabs
369 2011-11-30 17:15:43 <graingert> why do tabs = toolbar
370 2011-11-30 17:15:48 <graingert> whayyy?
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372 2011-11-30 17:19:41 <sipa> ?
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374 2011-11-30 17:21:00 <TD> i'm considering a tx confidence levels api for bitcoinj
375 2011-11-30 17:21:11 <TD> users of the library wish to know about changes in the confidence of a transaction
376 2011-11-30 17:21:25 <TD> eg, mobile clients want to render them differently when they go from pending to appearing in a block
377 2011-11-30 17:21:31 <TD> but there's actually a more general design possible
378 2011-11-30 17:21:45 <TD> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/bitcoinj/BkACnPiBOwA
379 2011-11-30 17:22:47 <TD> in particular, i'm thinking that the "right" api (not necessarily the easiest though) is to consider chain depth in terms of terahashes of work done
380 2011-11-30 17:23:05 <TD> rather than blocks
381 2011-11-30 17:23:16 <phantomcircuit> TD, they're the same
382 2011-11-30 17:23:17 <phantomcircuit> ;)
383 2011-11-30 17:23:56 <TD> no they aren't
384 2011-11-30 17:24:21 <TD> if you configure your app to say "i want 3 blocks worth of security", then network speed halves, your confidence halved too. you just didn't realize that.
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388 2011-11-30 17:25:10 <makomk> It doesn't quite, actually.
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429 2011-11-30 19:20:00 <BlueMatt> sipa: so whats the joke?
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438 2011-11-30 19:49:33 <sipa> BlueMatt: jgarzik once told i could put my phd thesis in a git commit message :)
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440 2011-11-30 19:54:35 <graingert> what's the char limit on git?
441 2011-11-30 19:54:38 <graingert> is there one?
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445 2011-11-30 19:55:58 <lianj> prolly not
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447 2011-11-30 20:00:13 <graingert> !ticker
448 2011-11-30 20:00:13 <gribble> Best bid: 2.92002, Best ask: 2.93009, Bid-ask spread: 0.01007, Last trade: 2.93991, 24 hour volume: 82389, 24 hour low: 2.71404, 24 hour high: 2.959
449 2011-11-30 20:02:31 Snapman is now known as Snapman[afkers]
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453 2011-11-30 20:08:10 <lyspooner> in the topic section of this room it reads that "OLD VERSIONS HARM THE NETWORK...".  is this true for 0.3.xx?
454 2011-11-30 20:12:06 <copumpkin> that kind of topic makes it sound like bitcoin is vulnerable to (even inadvertent) DOS
455 2011-11-30 20:12:12 <copumpkin> which may or may not be a good message to send
456 2011-11-30 20:13:40 <makomk> Bitcoin's P2P. Of course it's vulnerable to DOS if enough nodes misbehave.
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458 2011-11-30 20:13:59 <Eliel> copumpkin: well, at least versions previous to 0.3.24 do harm the network pretty literally. However, if there's few enough, it's not a big deal.
459 2011-11-30 20:14:08 <copumpkin> sure, but it might pay to qualify the statement
460 2011-11-30 20:14:38 <copumpkin> so newcomers don't get the impression that grandma running a bitcoin client can bring down the network :P
461 2011-11-30 20:14:50 Lolcust_Backup has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
462 2011-11-30 20:15:03 <Eliel> no client has been so bad as to cause the network to go down yet :)
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464 2011-11-30 20:18:39 <lyspooner> what does 0.3.23 do to harm the network?
465 2011-11-30 20:18:50 danbri has joined
466 2011-11-30 20:19:11 <sipa> it has a bug that causes it to disconnect when sending too much data... and that occurs when sending the block chain
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468 2011-11-30 20:21:02 <lyspooner> i think you should put the word CAN in between OLD VERSIONS and HARM.  i haven't visited in a while, and i got all scared.  up to you
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470 2011-11-30 20:21:34 <sipa> it's just a good practice in general to keep your client updated
471 2011-11-30 20:21:40 <BlueMatt> sipa: Im assuming that isnt an entire phd thesis...
472 2011-11-30 20:21:45 <sipa> BlueMatt: it is
473 2011-11-30 20:22:11 <BlueMatt> heh
474 2011-11-30 20:22:20 <BlueMatt> is there a reason it is encrypted then?
475 2011-11-30 20:22:26 <sipa> it's not
476 2011-11-30 20:22:34 <BlueMatt> oh, just compressed?
477 2011-11-30 20:22:41 <sipa> not even, just base64 encoded
478 2011-11-30 20:22:44 <BlueMatt> oh, heh
479 2011-11-30 20:22:58 <sipa> pdf is already quite compact
480 2011-11-30 20:24:11 <BlueMatt> heh
481 2011-11-30 20:25:05 <BlueMatt> nice
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507 2011-11-30 21:40:21 <luke-jr> lyspooner: no, an unpatched 0.3.23 DOES harm the network
508 2011-11-30 21:41:20 <luke-jr> lyspooner: if you want to run that old version, grab the patches I apply for Gentoo
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