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 86 2011-12-04 03:16:05 <Mqrius> Does GoWest hang out on IRC?
 87 2011-12-04 03:16:42 <Mqrius> If so: His mtgox ticker is broken on his site.
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 89 2011-12-04 03:20:53 <Diablo-D3> I havent seen him, but he might use a different nick
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 94 2011-12-04 03:34:04 <nanotube> i've seen him around, but not too often.
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110 2011-12-04 04:14:29 <theymos> Does Bitcoin Block Explorer seem super slow to anyone? It seems a little slower than normal to me, but someone on Stack Exchange says that it's really slow.
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112 2011-12-04 04:16:40 <gmaxwell> theymos: pages loading <1 second for me.
113 2011-12-04 04:16:57 <gmaxwell> maybe a little slow, but not enough to complain.
114 2011-12-04 04:17:13 <theymos> OK, thanks for checking. Maybe it gets worse at peak times.
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129 2011-12-04 04:59:45 <luke-jr> FWIW, OP_EVAL Stage 1 should now be live on Eligius
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189 2011-12-04 10:12:57 <gmaxwell> https://blockexplorer.com/block/0000000000000d720626d6d3ea8f9b90b8260db2db8e8dbdaf645e7fd67dff01
190 2011-12-04 10:13:04 <gmaxwell> ^ first block with the OP_EVAL flag.
191 2011-12-04 10:13:53 <gmaxwell> I'm sad that I wasn't paid in it. :)
192 2011-12-04 10:14:06 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: congrats on the OP_EVAL implementation.
193 2011-12-04 10:21:10 <Diablo-D3> wtf is that anyhow
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200 2011-12-04 10:39:35 <gjs278> yes what is OP_EVAL
201 2011-12-04 10:40:17 <gmaxwell> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0012
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206 2011-12-04 10:53:35 <coderrr> has that miner voting strategy been standardized in anyway yet?
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209 2011-12-04 11:04:02 <[Tycho]> Hello.
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214 2011-12-04 11:41:09 <dissipate_> [Tycho], hello
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217 2011-12-04 12:01:50 <Mqrius> How many blocks do litecoin network services (ie btc-e) usually use for confirmations?
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219 2011-12-04 12:12:52 <Mqrius> Is there any services that gives a notification when block X has been reached?
220 2011-12-04 12:13:02 <Mqrius> (On the normal Bitcoin network)
221 2011-12-04 12:15:02 <Eliel> Mqrius: if not, sounds like a shell script someone needs to write. And a simple one at that.
222 2011-12-04 12:15:46 <Mqrius> Eliel: Yup. Ideally it'd notify someone's phone though. But emailing or IRC notify should also work
223 2011-12-04 12:18:06 <Eliel> here's a quick hack of a shell line that will return the latest block number:
224 2011-12-04 12:18:09 <Eliel> bitcoind getinfo |grep blocks| cut -d : -f 2- | cut -d , -f 1-1 | cut -c 2-
225 2011-12-04 12:22:14 <Mqrius> I'm on windows. Was gonna try to use python and RPC calls, but apparently I don't have jsonrpc
226 2011-12-04 12:22:47 <Mqrius> On a related note: How do I cleanly exit bitcoind? Just ctrl+c it?
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228 2011-12-04 12:24:32 <Eliel> that how I tend to do it but a normal kill should be pretty clean too.
229 2011-12-04 12:24:57 <Eliel> as long as you don't use the -KILL switch which won't give the programs any chance to do anything anymore.
230 2011-12-04 12:25:42 <Mqrius> A normal kill on windows would equate to ctrl+alt+del, and then end task, but not end process?
231 2011-12-04 12:26:58 <Eliel> hmm, I don't know how that works on windows.
232 2011-12-04 12:27:22 <Eliel> but I'd expect the end task thing to give programs a chance to do stuff before they quit.
233 2011-12-04 12:27:51 <Eliel> and if it takes too long and user then tells the system to force it dead, that will kill without any chances to do anything anymore.
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235 2011-12-04 12:32:13 <Mqrius> sounds like it could be correct
236 2011-12-04 12:33:21 <Mqrius> python script to get blocks: from jsonrpc import ServiceProxy
237 2011-12-04 12:33:21 <Mqrius> access = ServiceProxy("http://user:password@127.0.0.1:8332")
238 2011-12-04 12:33:21 <Mqrius> access.getinfo()['blocks']
239 2011-12-04 12:34:14 <Eliel> that's quite a bit more readable than my hacky shell script :D
240 2011-12-04 12:37:30 <Mqrius> :)
241 2011-12-04 12:37:39 <Mqrius> Yeah, it's pretty clean
242 2011-12-04 12:37:46 <Mqrius> and easy to integrate to a notification script
243 2011-12-04 12:39:16 <Eliel> looks like the time the block reward will halve is likely to be somewhere around december 2012
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249 2011-12-04 12:54:04 <pickett> when the annunaki come back
250 2011-12-04 12:54:10 <pickett> coincidence?
251 2011-12-04 12:54:18 <pickett> who is satoshi
252 2011-12-04 12:54:20 <pickett> omg
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256 2011-12-04 13:07:37 <pickett> echo -n "12345" | sha256sum
257 2011-12-04 13:07:53 <pickett> anyone know what i type if i want to hash it say 1500 times?
258 2011-12-04 13:09:38 <cocktopus> why would you want to do that, you increase the potential for collisions
259 2011-12-04 13:11:12 <pickett> didn't know what
260 2011-12-04 13:11:16 <pickett> that
261 2011-12-04 13:16:35 <Mqrius> You slightly increase the chance of collisions, however, if you have proper salting, then the speed that can be achieved by bruteforcing is 1500 times smaller.
262 2011-12-04 13:17:10 <Mqrius> but sha256 isn't going to collide anyway, so that's not really an argument in the first place
263 2011-12-04 13:18:43 <Diablo-D3> cocktopus: well
264 2011-12-04 13:18:45 <Diablo-D3> what he really wants
265 2011-12-04 13:18:58 <Diablo-D3> is pbkdf2 type hashing
266 2011-12-04 13:19:12 <pickett> sha512 and just taking the 1st half of the output works too
267 2011-12-04 13:19:13 <Diablo-D3> sha256(x) ^ sha256(sha256(x)) etc etc etc
268 2011-12-04 13:19:21 <Diablo-D3> and do that 10k times
269 2011-12-04 13:19:43 <Diablo-D3> or really, sha512 that, and throw in a 128 bit or larger salt
270 2011-12-04 13:20:50 <pickett> you know how i'd type that into my ubuntu terminal?
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275 2011-12-04 13:44:02 <Eliel> Diablo-D3: scrypt would work too.
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277 2011-12-04 13:45:03 <Diablo-D3> pickett: pam already has a module for that
278 2011-12-04 13:45:07 <Diablo-D3> Eliel: meh
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280 2011-12-04 13:46:26 <Eliel> tarsnap project uses scrypt for creating an encryption key out of a passphrase. heavy enough scrypt that it'll take a couple of minutes to calculate it.
281 2011-12-04 13:46:54 <Eliel> that's annoying if you make a typo :D
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507 2011-12-04 15:06:11 <[Tycho]> !seen gavinandreson
508 2011-12-04 15:06:11 <gribble> I have not seen gavinandreson.
509 2011-12-04 15:06:12 <spaola> [Tycho], I don't remember seeing gavinandreson.
510 2011-12-04 15:06:30 random_cat has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
511 2011-12-04 15:06:50 <cocktopus> the 'seen' must get reset after a netsplit
512 2011-12-04 15:07:15 <[Tycho]> !seen gavinandresen
513 2011-12-04 15:07:15 <gribble> gavinandresen was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 18 hours, 15 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <gavinandresen> luke-jr: maybe another gavinsomething got it
514 2011-12-04 15:07:16 <spaola> gavinandresen (~gavinandr@unaffiliated/gavinandresen) was last seen quitting from #bitcoin-dev 18 hours, 4 minutes ago stating (Quit: gavinandresen).
515 2011-12-04 15:07:39 <[Tycho]> He has a tricky nickname :)
516 2011-12-04 15:07:53 <cocktopus> oh right :D
517 2011-12-04 15:09:28 <[Tycho]> I'm always expect it to be "Andersen", like the famous one.
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529 2011-12-04 15:27:02 <jrmithdobbs> whoa, did a bunch of logging get turned off by default or something?
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532 2011-12-04 15:30:32 <jrmithdobbs> ;;bc,blocks
533 2011-12-04 15:30:32 <gribble> 156011
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536 2011-12-04 15:49:49 <_Fireball> ha, Iwas always sure his last name is "Andersen" ;)
537 2011-12-04 15:51:05 <[Tycho]> _Fireball: that's because of the tales from our childhood.
538 2011-12-04 15:51:18 <_Fireball> ;)
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624 2011-12-04 20:02:06 <wonderbread> Is there a command like "listtransaction" but instead of taking an account as arg. accepts an address or is my best option to grab a lot of them and then iterate over them finding the ones related to a certain address?
625 2011-12-04 20:02:52 <tcatm> I think there a listreceived... RPCs
626 2011-12-04 20:03:46 <TD> wonderbread: why do you want a list of transactions?
627 2011-12-04 20:03:52 dan__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
628 2011-12-04 20:04:40 <wonderbread> It's for a simple payments API.
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630 2011-12-04 20:05:32 <TD> wonderbread: you should be able to query the balance of an address, i thought
631 2011-12-04 20:05:35 <wonderbread> That command specifically outputs the txid, amount and and confirmations
632 2011-12-04 20:05:43 <wonderbread> It's not just the balance I'm after
633 2011-12-04 20:06:06 <wonderbread> Rephrase my previous statement. Of what the command outputs, I'm after the txid, amount and confirmations
634 2011-12-04 20:06:48 <wonderbread> The balance is easy, that's getreceivedbyaddress
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637 2011-12-04 20:07:06 <[Tycho]> Hello, luke-jr
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655 2011-12-04 20:56:14 <cthulhuzombie> hello, an idea. just like bitcoin network is used for namecoin
656 2011-12-04 20:56:28 <cthulhuzombie> cant we use it as a CA (certificate authority)
657 2011-12-04 20:56:30 <cthulhuzombie> ?
658 2011-12-04 20:58:09 <theymos> Yeah, you could probably do that.
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662 2011-12-04 21:21:10 <gmaxwell> cthulhuzombie: namecoin uses the namecoin network not bitcoin.
663 2011-12-04 21:21:29 <graingert> well it uses some mining power from bitcoin
664 2011-12-04 21:21:38 <gmaxwell> No, it doesn't.
665 2011-12-04 21:21:42 <luke-jr> yes, it does.
666 2011-12-04 21:21:43 <graingert> due to merged mining
667 2011-12-04 21:21:46 <gmaxwell> You could equally say namecoin uses bitcoin mining power.
668 2011-12-04 21:21:55 <luke-jr> that's what he said.
669 2011-12-04 21:21:58 <graingert> that's what I said
670 2011-12-04 21:22:03 <gmaxwell> er reverse that.
671 2011-12-04 21:22:04 <gmaxwell> :)
672 2011-12-04 21:22:05 <luke-jr> lol
673 2011-12-04 21:22:11 <gmaxwell> You can equally say bitcoin uses namecoin mining power.
674 2011-12-04 21:22:22 <luke-jr> cthulhuzombie: I think CA could be added to NMC
675 2011-12-04 21:22:24 <graingert> well not quite the same
676 2011-12-04 21:22:35 <luke-jr> cthulhuzombie: in fact, IMO that would be the first *good reason* to use NMC
677 2011-12-04 21:22:35 <graingert> cthulhuzombie: it would be DNSSEC
678 2011-12-04 21:22:41 <graingert> basically
679 2011-12-04 21:22:46 <gmaxwell> graingert: it really is— other than the fact that namecoin gets the slightly overhead higher than the two.
680 2011-12-04 21:22:48 <luke-jr> cthulhuzombie: because it wouldn't be a CA you need, it'd be a keyhash
681 2011-12-04 21:22:57 <graingert> ala DNSSEC
682 2011-12-04 21:23:04 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: iirc key signatures for namecoin are already well defined.
683 2011-12-04 21:23:19 <Eliel> by the way, how would a CA implemented in blockchain work?
684 2011-12-04 21:23:29 <gmaxwell> Eliel: name way naming works.
685 2011-12-04 21:23:44 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: so you can already use a self-signed cert for a NMC domain, and get the same security level regular DNS needs a CA for?
686 2011-12-04 21:23:45 <gmaxwell> The downside is that namecoin can't provide a low/no trust light resolver yet.
687 2011-12-04 21:23:47 <graingert> well it would be based on name coin, as well as registering a ZONE you register a list of certs
688 2011-12-04 21:23:56 <luke-jr> Eliel: the browser would need to be aware of NMC ofc
689 2011-12-04 21:24:33 <Eliel> I mean, what would it provide that you can't currently get by using self-signed certificates?
690 2011-12-04 21:24:49 <graingert> you can insure that the page is the page of the domain
691 2011-12-04 21:24:56 <graingert> which you get with DNSSEC anyway
692 2011-12-04 21:25:19 <theymos> You'll know that the certificate you get is correct because you got it (or a hash of it) form DNS, which you know is reliable.
693 2011-12-04 21:25:24 <graingert> and if you set an HSTS record you can prevent ssl stripping
694 2011-12-04 21:25:27 <gmaxwell> http://dot-bit.org/Domain_names#Value_field
695 2011-12-04 21:25:29 <luke-jr> Eliel: with straight self-signed certs, you don't know if it's the original self-signed, or if it's a new MITM self-signed
696 2011-12-04 21:25:38 <gmaxwell> http://dot-bit.org/Domain_names#TLS_support
697 2011-12-04 21:26:13 <Eliel> ah, so with NMC support for certificates, you can tell if someone is MITMing you.
698 2011-12-04 21:26:14 <gmaxwell> Eliel: in any case, it can only do first come first serve CA.. but thats all real CAs really do anyways.
699 2011-12-04 21:26:22 <gmaxwell> Eliel: what! no!
700 2011-12-04 21:26:25 <luke-jr> Eliel: yes, you no longer need the CA at all
701 2011-12-04 21:26:40 <luke-jr> the whole purpose of the CA is to sign off that the person making the key is authentic
702 2011-12-04 21:26:45 <gmaxwell> Eliel: you can tell because you'll get a cert with a fingerprint that matches the one in the name lookup.
703 2011-12-04 21:27:00 <graingert> how does transferring work
704 2011-12-04 21:27:04 <graingert> and changing the records
705 2011-12-04 21:27:22 <gmaxwell> graingert: namecoin has transaction types to change records.
706 2011-12-04 21:27:33 <Eliel> so, it could potentially remove the need for asking the user separately for every site that has a self-signed certificate.
707 2011-12-04 21:28:08 <luke-jr> graingert: you basically send the domain to yourself, like when you transfer Bitcoins
708 2011-12-04 21:28:12 <gmaxwell> Eliel: it would just authenticate that the name was the real namecoin name. There would be no reason to prompt the user. The identity is validated.
709 2011-12-04 21:28:24 <graingert> luke-jr: I see, that makes sense then
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711 2011-12-04 21:30:40 <Eliel> I think namecoin could benefit quite a bit from including a merkle tree of the state of all domains in every block.
712 2011-12-04 21:31:09 <Eliel> would allow lite-clients to verify they're not being spoofed.
713 2011-12-04 21:31:46 Herbert has quit (2!~kvirc@ppp-93-104-149-109.dynamic.mnet-online.de|Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
714 2011-12-04 21:31:53 <graingert> bitcoin could do that was well
715 2011-12-04 21:31:59 <gmaxwell> Eliel: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=21995.0
716 2011-12-04 21:32:04 <graingert> a current state of all outputs
717 2011-12-04 21:32:05 <gmaxwell> graingert: doesn't provide as much value for bitcoin.
718 2011-12-04 21:32:22 <Eliel> gmaxwell: yes, I've read that :)
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720 2011-12-04 21:33:02 <Eliel> gmaxwell: how's it more valuable for namecoin?
721 2011-12-04 21:33:35 <gmaxwell> Eliel: because you don't need to know if a txn is still open in bitcoin— the txn you care about are yours and you know if you've spent them or not without asking the network.
722 2011-12-04 21:34:04 <gmaxwell> a lite bitcoin node just needs to see proof that txn paying them were mined at some point, and the existing system can provide that to lite nodes.
723 2011-12-04 21:34:11 <Eliel> ah yes, NMC domains you do care about everyone's records.
724 2011-12-04 21:35:16 <gmaxwell> Right. In the NMC case you want neighbors to prove to you that a NMC transaction is still current as of a recent point on the chain.  Otherwise they can lie to you and give you NXDOMAIN or old responses that don't work.
725 2011-12-04 21:35:46 <gmaxwell> I dunno if there is any plan of doing this, however. It wouldn't be hard though.
726 2011-12-04 21:36:40 <gmaxwell> well, releatively— there are some things to work out like how do you prevent people from attacking the tree to make long branches.
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728 2011-12-04 21:37:54 <luke-jr> so anyhow
729 2011-12-04 21:37:57 <luke-jr> anyone want to test my theory?
730 2011-12-04 21:38:05 <luke-jr> I think the current bitcoind release has a bug:
731 2011-12-04 21:38:09 <graingert> you mean hypothosis
732 2011-12-04 21:38:18 <luke-jr> it will accept 0.0001 BTC instead of 0.0005 BTC for fees
733 2011-12-04 21:38:24 <graingert> Hypothesis*
734 2011-12-04 21:38:30 <luke-jr> graingert: no, I mean theory.
735 2011-12-04 21:38:42 <Eliel> why not test yourself?
736 2011-12-04 21:38:47 <luke-jr> Eliel: too lazy
737 2011-12-04 21:39:04 <graingert> if it's not tested, it's a hypothesis
738 2011-12-04 21:41:40 <Eliel> luke-jr: you mean, nodes will rebroadcast transactions that have 0.0001 as the fee?
739 2011-12-04 21:42:02 <luke-jr> Eliel: I mean, they will put it in blocks
740 2011-12-04 21:42:08 <luke-jr> graingert: I disagree.
741 2011-12-04 21:42:30 <graingert> luke-jr: well you're wrong
742 2011-12-04 21:43:06 <luke-jr> graingert: no u
743 2011-12-04 21:43:16 <Eliel> there was also this thing called theorem, no?
744 2011-12-04 21:43:20 <luke-jr> the dictionary agrees with me
745 2011-12-04 21:43:34 <luke-jr> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theory
746 2011-12-04 21:44:04 <graingert> People refer to a trial solution to a problem as a hypothesis, often called an "educated guess"[7][8] because it provides a suggested solution based on the evidence. Experimenters may test and reject several hypotheses before solving the problem.
747 2011-12-04 21:44:34 <graingert> 6 a: a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation
748 2011-12-04 21:45:00 * [7] throws a toilet plunger at graingert
749 2011-12-04 21:45:43 <graingert> appeal to violence, nice one
750 2011-12-04 21:46:35 <Eliel> graingert: I think the difference between theory and hypothesis is the scale.
751 2011-12-04 21:47:34 <graingert> no it doesn'
752 2011-12-04 21:47:34 <luke-jr> graingert: that agrees with me
753 2011-12-04 21:47:38 <graingert> doesn't*
754 2011-12-04 21:47:52 <luke-jr> yes
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756 2011-12-04 21:48:58 <luke-jr> 1: the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another
757 2011-12-04 21:49:10 <luke-jr> 2: abstract thought : speculation
758 2011-12-04 21:49:41 Burgundy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
759 2011-12-04 21:50:05 <luke-jr> 6b : an unproved assumption : conjecture
760 2011-12-04 21:50:09 <Eliel> hypothesis doesn't tend to get used much by general public, it's more scientist vocabulary. Theory however, is reasonably common word in common speech.
761 2011-12-04 21:50:11 <graingert> 1. Theory, hypothesis  are used in non-technical contexts to mean an untested idea or opinion. A theory  in technical use is a more or less verified or established explanation accounting for known facts or phenomena: the theory of relativity.  A hypothesis  is a conjecture put forth as a possible explanation of phenomena or relations, which serves as a basis of argument or experimentation to reach the truth: This idea is only a hypothesis
762 2011-12-04 21:50:13 <graingert> .
763 2011-12-04 21:50:29 <graingert> #bitcoin-dev is technical
764 2011-12-04 21:50:41 <gmaxwell> 13:37 < luke-jr> it will accept 0.0001 BTC instead of 0.0005 BTC for fees
765 2011-12-04 21:50:44 <gmaxwell> ^ by design
766 2011-12-04 21:50:53 <luke-jr> graingert: sorry you can't speak regular English
767 2011-12-04 21:51:03 <gmaxwell> The idea was that we'd get ahead of lowering the fees by accepting less than we impose.
768 2011-12-04 21:51:14 <graingert> I don't speak non-technical English in a technical channel
769 2011-12-04 21:51:18 <luke-jr> graingert: in any case, my theory, while untested, is not without basis for belief
770 2011-12-04 21:51:23 <gmaxwell> so that a new version could be switched to 0.0001 without waiting for a network rollout.
771 2011-12-04 21:51:25 <luke-jr> graingert: English is English
772 2011-12-04 21:51:43 <gmaxwell> But this was done back when bitcoin was at $20 heading to $30.
773 2011-12-04 21:51:48 <graingert> you've got to investigate the cultural context
774 2011-12-04 21:52:03 <graingert> surely you should know about that ;)
775 2011-12-04 21:52:17 <gmaxwell> It would probably be undone now... except for the fact that there hasn't been obvious attacks abusing the fees being too low.
776 2011-12-04 21:52:55 <gmaxwell> I guess it might make sense in .6 to go ahead and drop the UI imposed fees to 0.0001 just so attackers don't pay less fees than regular users.
777 2011-12-04 21:54:28 <luke-jr> or fix it so .0005 is required for blocoks
778 2011-12-04 21:54:31 <luke-jr> like it was supposed to be
779 2011-12-04 21:55:04 <graingert> what a load of blocoks
780 2011-12-04 21:58:51 Turingi has quit (Quit: Leaving)
781 2011-12-04 22:02:24 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: It is how it was supposted to be.
782 2011-12-04 22:02:35 <gmaxwell> Go look for the message where jgarzik announced the change.
783 2011-12-04 22:02:56 <gmaxwell> But, sure, changing it to 0.0005 would also work.
784 2011-12-04 22:03:24 Turingi has joined
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786 2011-12-04 22:08:59 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I saw no such announcement.
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789 2011-12-04 22:13:59 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=printpage;topic=16553.0
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792 2011-12-04 22:15:10 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: that concurs with what I thought it was supposed to be, not what it actually is now in code
793 2011-12-04 22:15:23 <gmaxwell> oh! you're saying it will relay _and_ mine.
794 2011-12-04 22:15:32 <gmaxwell> oh, indeed, I think thats a bug. I'm sorry.
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798 2011-12-04 22:19:57 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: right
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800 2011-12-04 22:20:45 <cthulhuzombie> thanks guys for the info about  CA (certificate authority) with bitcoin/nmc
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808 2011-12-04 22:38:15 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: Is there any progress on the listtrasactions bug ?
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822 2011-12-04 23:02:58 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: not that I know of.
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828 2011-12-04 23:08:35 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: so sad.
829 2011-12-04 23:09:36 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: I imagine Gavin doesn't work on the weekend.
830 2011-12-04 23:09:54 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: oh, he did confirm it didn't affect the 0.3.23 backport tho
831 2011-12-04 23:10:03 <[Tycho]> Oh, It's weekend there...
832 2011-12-04 23:10:25 <[Tycho]> Why it didn't affect the backport ?
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839 2011-12-04 23:13:20 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: I don't know, I didn't look into the bug beyond confirming who to blame.
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