1 2011-12-12 00:00:17 <wladston> really ? why ? I though it would be as easy as including something like an -L parameter
   2 2011-12-12 00:00:30 <wladston> in the makefile
   3 2011-12-12 00:00:37 <BlueMatt> I thought you just tried that...
   4 2011-12-12 00:00:49 <BlueMatt> if it didnt work, well debugging problems is always a pita remote
   5 2011-12-12 00:01:05 <wladston> BlueMatt I don't know what is the right directory to -L to
   6 2011-12-12 00:01:15 <wladston> there are so many in the openssl folder ...
   7 2011-12-12 00:01:42 <BlueMatt> there should be an include/ somewhere in the openssl dir
   8 2011-12-12 00:01:47 <BlueMatt> in that should be openssl/*.h
   9 2011-12-12 00:01:57 <BlueMatt> if its not like that move *.h into an openssl and include the dir above that
  10 2011-12-12 00:01:57 bitcoinbulletin has quit (Quit: bitcoinbulletin)
  11 2011-12-12 00:02:11 <wladston> there is
  12 2011-12-12 00:02:34 <wladston> I'm trying another machine ... right now compiling libssl again
  13 2011-12-12 00:02:47 <BlueMatt> the folder you should -L is the one above openssl/*.h
  14 2011-12-12 00:03:01 <wladston> wait
  15 2011-12-12 00:03:06 <wladston> above ??
  16 2011-12-12 00:03:12 <BlueMatt> yea
  17 2011-12-12 00:03:14 <wladston> then maybe that's why it didn't work
  18 2011-12-12 00:03:17 <BlueMatt> not the openssl one
  19 2011-12-12 00:03:19 <BlueMatt> the one above that
  20 2011-12-12 00:03:26 <BlueMatt> -I that
  21 2011-12-12 00:03:37 <BlueMatt> and -L the folder containing a bunch of so's
  22 2011-12-12 00:03:47 <wladston> right
  23 2011-12-12 00:03:49 <BlueMatt> libssl
  24 2011-12-12 00:03:54 <BlueMatt> -L the folder with libssl in it
  25 2011-12-12 00:04:02 <wladston> I think this time it will work
  26 2011-12-12 00:04:05 <wladston> :)
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  29 2011-12-12 00:05:43 <wladston> bunch of .h's are on /var/tmp/openssl-1.0.0e/include/openssl, so I'll -L /var/tmp/openssl-1.0.0e/include
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  31 2011-12-12 00:05:55 <BlueMatt> no, include is just for -I
  32 2011-12-12 00:06:04 <wladston> ok
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  34 2011-12-12 00:06:12 <BlueMatt> *.h should be in (-I'd dir)/openssl/*.h
  35 2011-12-12 00:06:22 <BlueMatt> libssl should be in a dir that is -L'd
  36 2011-12-12 00:06:46 <wladston> awesome :) how can I find libssl ?
  37 2011-12-12 00:06:50 <BlueMatt> (moving files may very well be needed)
  38 2011-12-12 00:06:54 <BlueMatt> libssl and libcrypto
  39 2011-12-12 00:07:19 <BlueMatt> after building openssl you should have one of each
  40 2011-12-12 00:07:25 <BlueMatt> libssl.so
  41 2011-12-12 00:07:29 <BlueMatt> libssl.X.so
  42 2011-12-12 00:07:33 <BlueMatt> something like that
  43 2011-12-12 00:08:05 <BlueMatt> libssl.so.0.9.8 is what is on my system
  44 2011-12-12 00:08:12 <BlueMatt> youll probably have something higher if you are doing 1.0.0
  45 2011-12-12 00:08:14 <wladston> I can find that using locate too
  46 2011-12-12 00:08:27 <wladston> but not in my build folder
  47 2011-12-12 00:08:40 <wladston> locate libssl | grep tmp returns nothing
  48 2011-12-12 00:08:55 <BlueMatt> did you build openssl or just download it?
  49 2011-12-12 00:09:05 <wladston> I build it
  50 2011-12-12 00:09:20 <BlueMatt> wtf?
  51 2011-12-12 00:09:47 <wladston> I got the tar from the openssl website, untared, then made
  52 2011-12-12 00:10:05 <BlueMatt> you ./configure'd then make'd
  53 2011-12-12 00:10:22 <wladston> just make'd directly
  54 2011-12-12 00:11:03 <BlueMatt> try ./configure first?
  55 2011-12-12 00:11:10 <wladston> ok
  56 2011-12-12 00:11:12 <BlueMatt> of ./Configure  or whatever the hell it is for openssl
  57 2011-12-12 00:11:32 <wladston> it's ./config
  58 2011-12-12 00:11:36 bitcoinbulletin has joined
  59 2011-12-12 00:11:43 <wladston> now I'm make'ing again
  60 2011-12-12 00:11:53 <BlueMatt> only project that doesnt use ./configure...
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  70 2011-12-12 00:26:24 <wladston> blueMatt done. I got a libssl.pc and a libssl.a here in my folder
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  72 2011-12-12 00:26:46 <sipa> those are for linking statically
  73 2011-12-12 00:26:50 <sipa> is that what you want?
  74 2011-12-12 00:27:15 <wladston> sipa: I don't know .... I need a way for the compiler to use this openssl lib
  75 2011-12-12 00:29:18 dissipate has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  76 2011-12-12 00:29:21 <wladston> sipa: I'm getting this error when I try to compile : vanitygen.c:571: error: expected ')' before 'OPENSSL_VERSION_TEXT' and have no idea of how to fix it
  77 2011-12-12 00:29:49 <sipa> heh
  78 2011-12-12 00:29:59 <sipa> that's the first/only error you get?
  79 2011-12-12 00:30:13 <wladston> sipa: no, that's the last .... I get MANY more
  80 2011-12-12 00:30:20 <sipa> give me the first one
  81 2011-12-12 00:30:24 <wladston> vanitygen.c:26:25: error: openssl/sha.h: No such file or directory
  82 2011-12-12 00:30:38 <sipa> so your -I is wrong
  83 2011-12-12 00:31:34 <wladston> my -l is -l /var/tmp/openssl-1.0.0e/include. sha.h really isn't on /var/tmp/openssl-1.0.0e/include/openssl/
  84 2011-12-12 00:31:53 <sipa> -I is capital i
  85 2011-12-12 00:31:56 <sipa> not l
  86 2011-12-12 00:32:01 <wladston> OOOHHHHH
  87 2011-12-12 00:32:41 <wladston> sipa: thanks :)
  88 2011-12-12 00:32:48 <sipa> yw
  89 2011-12-12 00:32:48 <wladston> now the first one it gives me is /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lcrypto
  90 2011-12-12 00:33:02 <sipa> ok, that's a wrong -L :)
  91 2011-12-12 00:33:25 <wladston> sipa: any ideas how to fix it ? I have no -L
  92 2011-12-12 00:33:39 <sipa> 01:04:58 <@BlueMatt> libssl should be in a dir that is -L'd
  93 2011-12-12 00:34:22 <wladston> so -L /lib ?
  94 2011-12-12 00:34:24 <wladston> I have libssl.so.0.9.8
  95 2011-12-12 00:34:26 <wladston> ops
  96 2011-12-12 00:34:31 <wladston> /lib/libssl.so.0.9.8
  97 2011-12-12 00:34:33 <BlueMatt> no the libssl you built
  98 2011-12-12 00:34:37 <BlueMatt> not the one from your os
  99 2011-12-12 00:34:45 <wladston> BlueMatt how can I find that ?
 100 2011-12-12 00:34:46 <BlueMatt> should be /tmp/openssl...
 101 2011-12-12 00:35:13 <sipa> /lib and /use/lib are -L'd by default
 102 2011-12-12 00:35:23 <wladston> ls /var/tmp/openssl-1.0.0e/ | grep so returns nothing
 103 2011-12-12 00:35:34 <sipa> you need a .a
 104 2011-12-12 00:35:40 <wladston> ahn, ok
 105 2011-12-12 00:35:43 <sipa> .so are dynamic libraries
 106 2011-12-12 00:35:53 <wladston> so -L /var/tmp/openssl-1.0.0e/
 107 2011-12-12 00:36:01 <sipa> yes, probably
 108 2011-12-12 00:37:06 <wladston> sipa:  now my first error is /var/tmp/openssl-1.0.0e/libcrypto.a(dso_dlfcn.o): In function `dlfcn_globallookup':
 109 2011-12-12 00:37:08 <wladston> dso_dlfcn.c:(.text+0x2d): undefined reference to `dlopen'
 110 2011-12-12 00:37:22 <wladston> (there are many more that look like)
 111 2011-12-12 00:37:31 <sipa> add -ldl
 112 2011-12-12 00:38:24 <sipa> to make it link with libdl
 113 2011-12-12 00:38:47 <wladston> awesome!!! finally it worked!!!!
 114 2011-12-12 00:40:10 <wladston> but still going to take 11 years
 115 2011-12-12 00:40:56 <sipa> well worth it
 116 2011-12-12 00:41:15 <BlueMatt> dont go crazy
 117 2011-12-12 00:41:19 <BlueMatt> do 5-6 chars
 118 2011-12-12 00:41:28 <wladston> maybe if I have 11 machines I could do it :D
 119 2011-12-12 00:41:30 <BlueMatt> then it wont take too long...
 120 2011-12-12 00:41:44 <wladston> I wanted to make my nick
 121 2011-12-12 00:42:04 <BlueMatt> 8 is gonna take...a while
 122 2011-12-12 00:42:13 <BlueMatt> I settled for BMatt
 123 2011-12-12 00:42:47 <wladston> :) is it easy to install the address after it is generated ?
 124 2011-12-12 00:43:25 <sipa> i have a patch for bitcoin that allows you to import it (it will probably be merged in 0.6)
 125 2011-12-12 00:43:30 <sipa> otherwise, pywallet
 126 2011-12-12 00:43:44 <BlueMatt> it will be in the wallet generated on the comp you are using to vanitygen
 127 2011-12-12 00:43:45 <wladston> sipa: cool :) with one is easier ?
 128 2011-12-12 00:44:09 <sipa> oh, does vanitygen now import it itself?
 129 2011-12-12 00:44:19 <sipa> long since i used it
 130 2011-12-12 00:44:58 <BlueMatt> wait, is that not a mod to the vanitygen gavin originally wrote?
 131 2011-12-12 00:45:15 <BlueMatt> the one where it mods the call to addaddress or something like that?
 132 2011-12-12 00:45:29 <sipa> i don't think anyone still uses that
 133 2011-12-12 00:45:35 <sipa> vanitygen is a separate tool
 134 2011-12-12 00:45:37 <BlueMatt> ...oh
 135 2011-12-12 00:45:46 <BlueMatt> heh shows how much I pay attention anymore
 136 2011-12-12 00:45:48 <sipa> that's orders of magnitude faster
 137 2011-12-12 00:46:14 <BlueMatt> oh
 138 2011-12-12 00:47:00 arneis has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 139 2011-12-12 00:47:05 * sipa -> bed
 140 2011-12-12 00:47:19 <BlueMatt> goodnight
 141 2011-12-12 00:47:24 <wladston> sipa: thanks for the help man :) good night
 142 2011-12-12 00:48:41 <sipa> wladston: pywallet is probably easier unless you're accustomed to compiling your own bitcoind
 143 2011-12-12 00:48:58 <wladston> sipa: pywallet it is, then :) thanks once more :D
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 147 2011-12-12 01:01:45 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * r55580145f5f9 /include/bitcoin/types.hpp: hash_digest / short_hash std::hash implementations for std::*map variants. http://tinyurl.com/88n8dqq
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 160 2011-12-12 02:08:48 <amiller> hey copumpkin was it you who mentioned ATS earlier?
 161 2011-12-12 02:08:57 <copumpkin> hmm, it might have been doublec
 162 2011-12-12 02:09:01 <amiller> i'm finding this pretty fascinating http://www.ats-lang.org/EXAMPLE/
 163 2011-12-12 02:09:16 <copumpkin> doublec wrote his namecoin mining pool in ATS iirc
 164 2011-12-12 02:10:07 <amiller> this is the least crufty introduction to verified programming i've seen yet
 165 2011-12-12 02:10:12 <amiller> better than the guru book
 166 2011-12-12 02:10:23 <doublec> copumpkin: parts of it are in ATS, other parts in Ur/Web
 167 2011-12-12 02:10:39 <doublec> copumpkin: I slowly hack on a complete implementatoin in ATS
 168 2011-12-12 02:10:45 <copumpkin> cool :)
 169 2011-12-12 02:11:05 <amiller> doublec, do you prefer ATS to coq or agda? have you used the others?
 170 2011-12-12 02:11:32 <doublec> the downside of an expressive language is I spend a lot of time in changing things to try out cool features of the language
 171 2011-12-12 02:11:46 <doublec> amiller: I've only used ATS - I haven't used coq or agda
 172 2011-12-12 02:13:20 <doublec> amiller: you might like some of the papers in here http://cs-people.bu.edu/aren/workspace/paper/
 173 2011-12-12 02:13:29 <doublec> amiller: for other examples of using ATS' proof system
 174 2011-12-12 02:13:37 <doublec> they're quite approachable
 175 2011-12-12 02:18:22 <amiller> yeah this in particular resonates with me quite well, and it completes the fibonacci example i enjoyed so much http://cs-people.bu.edu/aren/workspace/paper/programmer_centric/main.pdf
 176 2011-12-12 02:18:28 <amiller> thanks
 177 2011-12-12 02:18:32 <doublec> np
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 210 2011-12-12 04:36:34 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr maintree * rcc6fc28fdef4 gentoo/licenses/md2k7-asyouwish: Merge branch 'master' into maintree http://tinyurl.com/d63ok95
 211 2011-12-12 04:40:21 <rjk2> hey luke-jr what's the latest on the BFL unicorn
 212 2011-12-12 04:40:32 <rjk2> did you get it to go any faster
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 217 2011-12-12 04:44:33 <luke-jr> rjk2: I lost my connection, so no.
 218 2011-12-12 04:44:44 <luke-jr> maybe on Monday
 219 2011-12-12 04:45:30 <luke-jr> I did refactor the code mess I made, and pushed it to Gitorious
 220 2011-12-12 04:45:47 <luke-jr> it's still not sane for merging upstream, but decently usable ;P
 221 2011-12-12 04:46:25 <rjk2> mmm refactoring
 222 2011-12-12 04:46:28 <rjk2> fun
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 236 2011-12-12 06:15:30 <BlueMatt> oh shit...my dnsseed is down
 237 2011-12-12 06:15:59 <gmaxwell> hmph. I came like .. inches from discovering that on my own a little bit ago.
 238 2011-12-12 06:16:21 <BlueMatt> heh, I was responding to your email when I found out
 239 2011-12-12 06:16:49 <BlueMatt> ...and gavin has the vm on his amazon account, so only he can reboot...
 240 2011-12-12 06:17:08 <BlueMatt> no ping, ssh, etc
 241 2011-12-12 06:20:04 EPiSKiNG- has quit ()
 242 2011-12-12 06:20:50 <BlueMatt> well...
 243 2011-12-12 06:21:51 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * r46b243181ddf / (6 files in 4 dirs): messages::block.prev_block -> messages::block.previous_block_hash http://tinyurl.com/7aj857o
 244 2011-12-12 06:21:59 <BlueMatt> well I could try to set it up on another vm tonight, or I could let it be...
 245 2011-12-12 06:22:11 <BlueMatt> and my roomate is sleeping behind me...
 246 2011-12-12 06:22:22 <gmaxwell> I wonder if thats why a few people have complained about bitcoin hanging up on start for them.
 247 2011-12-12 06:22:36 <BlueMatt> I just cname'd the record to jgarzik's dnsseed for now
 248 2011-12-12 06:22:43 <BlueMatt> to keep that from being too big a problem
 249 2011-12-12 06:27:35 <Guest13976> BlueMatt: does your stuff directly serve DNS records, or does it generate BIND zonefiles and run stock named?
 250 2011-12-12 06:27:42 <BlueMatt> bind
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 254 2011-12-12 06:28:00 <BlueMatt> its that old php crap I wrote a while back
 255 2011-12-12 06:28:51 <BlueMatt> Ill go throw one up on another server Ive got for the night
 256 2011-12-12 06:29:15 <BlueMatt> brb
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 263 2011-12-12 06:51:33 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr maintree * r4cd49c784d09 gentoo/net-p2p/ (bitcoind/Manifest wxbitcoin/Manifest): Merge branch 'master' into maintree http://tinyurl.com/cxtzhs8
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 274 2011-12-12 07:28:47 <BlueMatt> aaaand...new dnsseed up
 275 2011-12-12 07:31:01 <BlueMatt> (Ill deal with wildcarding and other crap in the morning when I get the old server back up)
 276 2011-12-12 07:31:04 <BlueMatt> goodnight all
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 278 2011-12-12 07:45:31 <[Tycho]> Hello, luke-jr ?
 279 2011-12-12 07:45:40 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: what?
 280 2011-12-12 07:46:24 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: why were your blocks' timestamps offsetted ?
 281 2011-12-12 07:47:11 <luke-jr> none of your business? :P
 282 2011-12-12 07:48:38 <[Tycho]> Looks like you are suspiciously unfriendly.
 283 2011-12-12 07:49:34 <luke-jr> do you usually ask people random questions? :P
 284 2011-12-12 07:50:33 <[Tycho]> It's not a random question.
 285 2011-12-12 07:51:23 <jgarzik> timestamps may definitely have a bearing on network and block security.
 286 2011-12-12 07:53:00 marf_away has joined
 287 2011-12-12 07:53:29 <luke-jr> my block timestamps are within normal limits.
 288 2011-12-12 07:53:48 <luke-jr> (if they weren't, they'd be orphans)
 289 2011-12-12 07:55:46 <[Tycho]> Hmm, checked last ones and they seem to be normal.
 290 2011-12-12 08:04:23 Burgundy has joined
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 292 2011-12-12 08:08:37 <[Tycho]> What is the "Toasty" miner in blockchain.info stats ?
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 303 2011-12-12 08:31:51 <c_k> [Tycho]: where do you see that? I don't see it in the "pools" stats
 304 2011-12-12 08:32:17 <[Tycho]> I see it at least in the "orphaned blocks" list.
 305 2011-12-12 08:32:34 <[Tycho]> There is also some "Virtulex" miner.
 306 2011-12-12 08:32:44 <c_k> http://blockchain.info/blocks ahh I see it there
 307 2011-12-12 08:32:58 <c_k> Vircurex? isn't that a virtual currency exchange?
 308 2011-12-12 08:33:26 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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 310 2011-12-12 08:34:39 <c_k> [Tycho]: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=40264.msg556425#msg556425
 311 2011-12-12 08:35:11 <c_k> [Tycho]: an explanation of why Eligius time is intentionally not "normal"
 312 2011-12-12 08:35:52 <[Tycho]> Yes, that link points to an exchange. But their mining share looks big enough.
 313 2011-12-12 08:36:03 <[Tycho]> More than most of small pools (each).
 314 2011-12-12 08:41:38 <c_k> I was wondering the same thing
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 326 2011-12-12 10:01:40 <ThomasV> what is 1VayNert3x1KzbpzMGt2qdqrAThiRovi8 ?
 327 2011-12-12 10:01:48 <ThomasV> a spammer?
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 345 2011-12-12 11:20:20 <[Tycho]> Someone found my VayNert again :)
 346 2011-12-12 11:23:10 <ThomasV> [Tycho]: are you doing this?
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 361 2011-12-12 12:07:35 <[Tycho]> ThomasV: Yes, why ?
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 380 2011-12-12 12:56:18 <ThomasV> [Tycho]: what is your goal?
 381 2011-12-12 12:58:30 <[Tycho]> My goal is to promote Bitcoin, mostly.
 382 2011-12-12 12:58:34 datagutt has joined
 383 2011-12-12 12:58:41 <[Tycho]> If you are asking globally.
 384 2011-12-12 13:00:28 <ThomasV> [Tycho]: I am asking what is the point of all these 1VayNert3x1KzbpzMGt2qdqrAThiRovi8 transactions?
 385 2011-12-12 13:00:43 <ThomasV> are you stress-testing the memory pool?
 386 2011-12-12 13:01:26 cryptoxchange has joined
 387 2011-12-12 13:05:50 darkskiez_ has joined
 388 2011-12-12 13:05:51 <[Tycho]> ThomasV: Hmm. Do you know how many users I need to pay daily ?
 389 2011-12-12 13:05:52 <ThomasV> oh I see, I found the relevant forum thread
 390 2011-12-12 13:06:11 darkskiez has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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 392 2011-12-12 13:06:14 <ThomasV> [Tycho]: thank you for your relevant explanations, that was very helpful
 393 2011-12-12 13:06:41 <[Tycho]> Looks like sarcasm.
 394 2011-12-12 13:06:51 <[Tycho]> No one likes my work :(
 395 2011-12-12 13:07:09 <ThomasV> it is always very nice to have a constructive communication with someone who answers your questions
 396 2011-12-12 13:07:37 <Eliel_> [Tycho]: I'd beg to differ. Look at the number of miners mining through your pool.
 397 2011-12-12 13:09:21 <[Tycho]> ThomasV: these transactions are clearly not spam, they are big enough, not relay-restricted, with matured coins and to different people.
 398 2011-12-12 13:09:40 <[Tycho]> Eliel_: everything is fine with number of people.
 399 2011-12-12 13:09:41 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 400 2011-12-12 13:09:45 <[Tycho]> Slightly more today.
 401 2011-12-12 13:11:25 <ThomasV> [Tycho]: I know, I found the forum thread. perhaps one day you will understand that not everybody knows you are deepbit, and that the kind of answers you gave above are not really helpful
 402 2011-12-12 13:11:49 <[Tycho]> ThomasV: sorry.
 403 2011-12-12 13:11:51 <slush> [Tycho]: Hi, I joined in the middle of the discussion, so sorry if it was answered already, but why not sendmany?
 404 2011-12-12 13:12:11 <ThomasV> slush: it's explained in the thread
 405 2011-12-12 13:12:24 iocor has joined
 406 2011-12-12 13:12:24 <slush> ok
 407 2011-12-12 13:12:24 <ThomasV> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53892.0
 408 2011-12-12 13:12:37 <[Tycho]> slush: actually I can't remember. I had some really important reason to do this, something related to network's future.
 409 2011-12-12 13:13:05 <[Tycho]> slush: but now I'm already preparing to use it.
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 413 2011-12-12 13:14:01 <[Tycho]> slush: why the blockchain.info says that they can't detect your pool's network share ?
 414 2011-12-12 13:14:17 <slush> [Tycho]: don't know
 415 2011-12-12 13:14:36 <slush> they're not using website stats, but p2p analysis
 416 2011-12-12 13:14:46 <slush> and they probably cannot identify my IPs or whatever
 417 2011-12-12 13:15:09 <slush> and those stats are extremely inaccurate. I don't see a point in such wrong stats anyway :)
 418 2011-12-12 13:15:13 <[Tycho]> Also I wonder where that Vircurex got such share.
 419 2011-12-12 13:16:03 <[Tycho]> At least they are (possibly) based on number of blocks instead of pool's returned hashrate.
 420 2011-12-12 13:16:18 <doublec> I thought vircurex was an exchange, not a pool
 421 2011-12-12 13:16:56 <slush> [Tycho]: yes, but it is far less accurate than fetching website stats. And pool operator cannot lie *so much* with his hashrate
 422 2011-12-12 13:17:40 <[Tycho]> slush: fetching website stats is bad because they compare hashrate with block numbers. Like apples to oranges.
 423 2011-12-12 13:18:43 da2ce7 has joined
 424 2011-12-12 13:19:17 <slush> well, pool report hashrate AND block numbers. Even if you pick only block numbers, you'll make much better graph than by analyzing just a p2p traffic
 425 2011-12-12 13:20:32 <[Tycho]> slush: I mean that they are calculating network's total from total number of blocks generated.
 426 2011-12-12 13:20:49 <[Tycho]> doublec: me too. Actually I discovered them only today.
 427 2011-12-12 13:21:18 <doublec> odd
 428 2011-12-12 13:21:50 <[Tycho]> May be they are relaying.
 429 2011-12-12 13:21:55 <[Tycho]> Or he knows something.
 430 2011-12-12 13:22:40 <[Tycho]> If my payments are stressing the network, then what stress it will be after widespread adoption :)
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 432 2011-12-12 13:32:29 <Eliel_> wasn't there some performance issues with handling transactions with huge numbers of inputs and/or outputs?
 433 2011-12-12 13:37:26 <[Tycho]> May be. I'm limiting the maximum numbers.
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 487 2011-12-12 16:47:29 <luke-jr> oh, [Tycho] is a spammer? :P
 488 2011-12-12 16:47:44 <[Tycho]> No, you ! :)
 489 2011-12-12 16:48:57 <copumpkin> you might be interested in http://fgiesen.wordpress.com/2011/11/21/buffer-centric-io/
 490 2011-12-12 16:49:15 <copumpkin> it's a neat pattern, and closely reflects a similar pattern I use quite a bit in certain other languages
 491 2011-12-12 16:50:20 BlueMatt has joined
 492 2011-12-12 16:53:48 <sipa> copumpkin: right channel?
 493 2011-12-12 16:54:02 <copumpkin> yeah
 494 2011-12-12 16:54:05 <copumpkin> :P
 495 2011-12-12 16:54:10 <copumpkin> cause you guys use C++ and do stream processing
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 498 2011-12-12 17:02:12 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: ok...so we need more dnsseeds...
 499 2011-12-12 17:02:51 <gavinandresen> yup
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 501 2011-12-12 17:03:27 <gavinandresen> Easy-to-follow instructions for how to set up a dnsseed would help (are there somewhere?)
 502 2011-12-12 17:03:52 <BlueMatt> Im gonna write an email to the dev list with some later
 503 2011-12-12 17:04:39 <gavinandresen> I was thinking in the shower this morning that people might be willing to run paid EC2 instances to support bitcoin
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 507 2011-12-12 17:05:06 <BlueMatt> maybe it would be a good idea to build a minimalist dnsseed instance that people could clone...
 508 2011-12-12 17:05:24 <gavinandresen> Yes, that would be great.
 509 2011-12-12 17:05:50 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: good idea
 510 2011-12-12 17:06:22 <BlueMatt> well I might be able to delete some stuff from the one I whipped together last night and tweak it and just release that...
 511 2011-12-12 17:08:19 <gavinandresen> Make sure it restarts itself on reboot...
 512 2011-12-12 17:08:30 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: whatever OS is used, make sure it automatically installs nightly software updates
 513 2011-12-12 17:08:31 <BlueMatt> yea...
 514 2011-12-12 17:08:38 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: good point
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 519 2011-12-12 17:14:11 <sipa> BlueMatt: i upgraded my VPS recently; how hard is it to set up a dns seed?
 520 2011-12-12 17:14:32 <BlueMatt> its not too bad, but it does require php-cli and bind
 521 2011-12-12 17:14:38 <sipa> if it doesn't consume too much ram, i can run one
 522 2011-12-12 17:15:00 <sipa> how hard would it be to write a custom dns server extension to bitcoind?
 523 2011-12-12 17:15:14 <sipa> i've never looked at the details, but the dns protocol can't be hard
 524 2011-12-12 17:15:40 <BlueMatt> I mean the dnsseed software I run is crap, so running it in an environment with <256m is not much of an option...
 525 2011-12-12 17:15:46 <BlueMatt> but it works
 526 2011-12-12 17:16:04 <gmaxwell> You'd only need a fairly limited subset of dns for that... but right now bitcoind doesn't e.g. have code to track nodes which are actually good.
 527 2011-12-12 17:16:27 <gmaxwell> We don't want dnsseed just repeating the addr rumoring, because the vast majority of rumored nodes are unreachable.
 528 2011-12-12 17:16:43 <sipa> agree
 529 2011-12-12 17:16:55 <sipa> maybe the priority should be to fix the addr handling :)
 530 2011-12-12 17:18:55 <sipa> what about: track addresses per /16 (and per configured "ip range group" for ipv6), in each set maintain a fixed maximum number of addresses (like 256), normally only forward incoming addresses to one or two random peers, but if a succeefull connection is made, forward its ip to all peers
 531 2011-12-12 17:19:14 <sipa> and just keep the 256 most recent ones in each set
 532 2011-12-12 17:19:41 ThomasV_ has joined
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 534 2011-12-12 17:20:03 <BlueMatt> heh ""North Korea warned South Korea on Sunday of 'unexpected consequences' if Seoul displays Christmas lights near the tense border"
 535 2011-12-12 17:20:04 <BlueMatt> wtf?
 536 2011-12-12 17:20:14 <gmaxwell> sipa: yea, I proposed something in that family before. E.g. hash buckets by prefix and having buckets by confidence.
 537 2011-12-12 17:20:31 <sipa> gmaxwell: i remember the conversion vaguely, yes
 538 2011-12-12 17:20:46 <sipa> (it's definitely not entirely my own idea)
 539 2011-12-12 17:20:54 <gmaxwell> sipa: there are more than two confidence sets though, e.g. I've never connected / I've connected but not recently / I've recently connected.
 540 2011-12-12 17:21:35 <gmaxwell> but, whatever, almost anything would be better than what we have now.
 541 2011-12-12 17:22:27 <sipa> would you give preference to addresse you've tried yourself already?
 542 2011-12-12 17:23:17 <sipa> maybe we also need separate confidence levels for addresses you hear about from nodes you've connected to yourself, vs. from nodes that connected to you
 543 2011-12-12 17:23:19 <gmaxwell> I don't know so much about connection preference but I think you'd want to retain them for longer. (e.g. never allow a flood of addresses you haven't connected to to cause ones you know work to expire)
 544 2011-12-12 17:23:37 <sipa> very good point
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 546 2011-12-12 17:24:09 <sipa> just keeping separate sets for recently-connected-to-ourselves vs the rest would be a good idea, then
 547 2011-12-12 17:24:36 <BlueMatt> sipa: for the record, a dnsseed running my crap will probably need ~200m
 548 2011-12-12 17:24:48 <gmaxwell> I was thinking that you could have nodes tell you their own confidences, and you subtract one level for peers you connected to, two levels for peers that connected to you.  Perhaps zero levels for keepnoded peers.
 549 2011-12-12 17:25:54 <gmaxwell> And promote/demote things based on how recently you've connected to them / failed to connect to them.. but all that orthorgonal to who you select to connect to.
 550 2011-12-12 17:26:12 <sipa> let's keep things simple for now :)
 551 2011-12-12 17:26:58 <gmaxwell> I think who you select to connect to should be based on how many peers you have up. E.g. preference for most-likely-to-connect for the first two or so, then random, and perhaps least recently tested for the last position. or something vaguely in that class.
 552 2011-12-12 17:27:54 <gmaxwell> (In general, the peer selection should avoid having exploitable structure)
 553 2011-12-12 17:28:42 <sipa> well, what about just having a probability set for the choice known good / unknown peer, and have that probility change based on the number of current connections
 554 2011-12-12 17:30:05 <gmaxwell> Right, it's really important to get a working peer up when you have none/few. But after that we should prefer to not introduce structure in the decisions, so that an attacker can't exploit that structure to gather more of your connections cheaply.
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 562 2011-12-12 17:45:46 <ohzer0> has anyone been experiencing timeouts during API calls? I'm getting spikes of high disk IO that cause my API calls to timeout
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 588 2011-12-12 19:03:23 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: is there any indication on aws as to how long jenkins/dnsseed was down?
 589 2011-12-12 19:03:58 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: the problem was triggered by a scheduled reboot... I'll forward you the email
 590 2011-12-12 19:04:20 <imsaguy2> they're still doing those forced reboots?
 591 2011-12-12 19:04:30 <BlueMatt> yea, kinda poor if you ask me...
 592 2011-12-12 19:04:38 <imsaguy2> that was like a week ago when they start that
 593 2011-12-12 19:04:42 <imsaguy2> started*
 594 2011-12-12 19:04:54 <BlueMatt> the question is when the dnsseed actually went down...
 595 2011-12-12 19:04:56 <imsaguy2> at least fail people over to other machines
 596 2011-12-12 19:05:03 <BlueMatt> mostly I ask
 597 2011-12-12 19:05:09 <BlueMatt> ...
 598 2011-12-12 19:05:16 <gavinandresen> I don't know why the jenkins instance didn't come back up, didn't bother to ask Amazon
 599 2011-12-12 19:05:41 <BlueMatt> mostly I ask because when I scraped together another dnsseed last night, I now notice that it and the old one have almost entirely different databases
 600 2011-12-12 19:05:51 <BlueMatt> which is an interesting result to say the least...
 601 2011-12-12 19:07:03 <BlueMatt> and since it appears the dnsseed was only down very briefly, ie its data isnt just stale, well...
 602 2011-12-12 19:07:43 <BlueMatt> or maybe turnover is just that ridiculously fast...
 603 2011-12-12 19:08:04 <sipa> or you have a bug? ;)
 604 2011-12-12 19:08:17 <BlueMatt> a bug in my software, impossible
 605 2011-12-12 19:08:38 <BlueMatt> :)
 606 2011-12-12 19:09:20 <gmaxwell> or the network is partitioned and you ended up in another partition? :)
 607 2011-12-12 19:09:27 <BlueMatt> since the total accepting nodes is converging together on the two seeds (Im merging the dbs) Im assuming its turnover
 608 2011-12-12 19:09:41 <BlueMatt> but its either that or partitioning is worse than I suspected
 609 2011-12-12 19:10:06 <BlueMatt> (which I kind of doubt because afaik there arent that many complaints about block download lag?)
 610 2011-12-12 19:10:08 <gmaxwell> the irc behavior is very pro-partition formation.
 611 2011-12-12 19:10:47 <BlueMatt> true...
 612 2011-12-12 19:11:03 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: unless the partitions are bridged for blocks but not bridged for addr rumoring, somehow. (perhaps some side effect of how the rumoring works, I dunno)
 613 2011-12-12 19:11:25 <BlueMatt> that is also entirely possible
 614 2011-12-12 19:11:49 <BlueMatt> in any case an interesting data point in case someone wants to do network research (would be really nice if someone had the free time to do that...)
 615 2011-12-12 19:12:26 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: I forget...  from where does your php stuff get bitcoin address data?  direct from bitcoind db?  via special RPC query?  remotely over network?
 616 2011-12-12 19:14:34 <sipa> BlueMatt: btw, how many nodes does the db contain?
 617 2011-12-12 19:14:53 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: traverses the network
 618 2011-12-12 19:15:18 <BlueMatt> sipa: it drops non-connectable nodes so that number is fairly unreliable, but connectable nodes tends to hover around 1500
 619 2011-12-12 19:15:19 <sipa> so it speaks bitcoin p2p?
 620 2011-12-12 19:15:22 <BlueMatt> yea
 621 2011-12-12 19:15:33 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: yea, it would be interesting to startup a couple instances of your traverser with different start points and make sure they converge.
 622 2011-12-12 19:15:45 <gmaxwell> If they don't.. thats bad.
 623 2011-12-12 19:16:31 <gmaxwell> If .. I wanted to sit down and calculate I could figure out how fast they should converge if nothing is broken/being exploited.
 624 2011-12-12 19:16:52 <BlueMatt> I have a feeling they would, but the question is how quickly, ie is the net partitioned slightly with bridges in between, or is it fairly unpartitioned
 625 2011-12-12 19:18:17 <gmaxwell> right, but you can answer that question by doing a bunch of polls and measuring how fast it converges.
 626 2011-12-12 19:18:25 <BlueMatt> yep
 627 2011-12-12 19:18:40 <sipa> BlueMatt: what priviliges would you need to run it on my vps?
 628 2011-12-12 19:18:52 <sipa> just bind listening, i suppose?
 629 2011-12-12 19:19:05 * BlueMatt just isnt particularly comfortable with how little we actually know about the stability and functioning of the network in the real world
 630 2011-12-12 19:19:37 <BlueMatt> sipa: yea pretty much...I think the only thing that needs half-root is the ability to SIGHUP bind when the zonefile changes
 631 2011-12-12 19:19:42 darkskiez_ has joined
 632 2011-12-12 19:19:48 ByteCoin has joined
 633 2011-12-12 19:20:05 <BlueMatt> which means root or some variation thereon
 634 2011-12-12 19:20:15 <BlueMatt> ie visudo rule, etc
 635 2011-12-12 19:20:20 <BlueMatt> s/visudo/sudoers/
 636 2011-12-12 19:20:24 <sipa> right
 637 2011-12-12 19:22:03 * sipa ponders writing a network-traversing C program that functions as a DNS server
 638 2011-12-12 19:22:37 <BlueMatt> would be cool
 639 2011-12-12 19:22:59 <BlueMatt> especially if it could actually download a few blocks to check the other node is good
 640 2011-12-12 19:23:07 <BlueMatt> (mine only checks version number)
 641 2011-12-12 19:23:21 btc_novice has joined
 642 2011-12-12 19:23:35 imsaguy2 is now known as btc_n00b
 643 2011-12-12 19:24:02 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: perhaps validate the highest current checkpoint or something.
 644 2011-12-12 19:25:51 <BlueMatt> sadly MagicalTux's php node implementation doesnt support that and I dont have the time this week to write that support in
 645 2011-12-12 19:25:56 <BlueMatt> (exams and such...)
 646 2011-12-12 19:25:58 <luke-jr> constantly add peers, and when it gets a DNS request, disconnect from 2-4 and return those ;)
 647 2011-12-12 19:26:45 <gmaxwell> ha, thats interesting, then you know they have open sockets.
 648 2011-12-12 19:27:07 <gmaxwell> a bit wasteful though, alas.
 649 2011-12-12 19:28:05 btc_n00b is now known as imsaguy2
 650 2011-12-12 19:31:07 rdponticelli has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 651 2011-12-12 19:32:19 ByteCoin has left ()
 652 2011-12-12 19:34:04 ThomasV_ has joined
 653 2011-12-12 19:34:21 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * rca287d6 / src/net.cpp : Merge pull request #694 from luke-jr/restore_old_miniupnp_compat ... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/ca287d66f2f12ae3006daef831fbf00a4723e46d
 654 2011-12-12 19:34:22 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr master * r94b9704 / src/net.cpp : Restore compatibility with miniupnpc 1.5 (without breaking miniupnp 1.6) - http://git.io/Uti8Ag https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/94b97046fdd7466564f77f1f6631d50a8521cf10
 655 2011-12-12 19:34:52 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r93e92d3 / (2 files): Merge pull request #687 from TheBlueMatt/gitianssl ... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/93e92d3f44cbb4ac96c394871090e8f2b32c0f8e
 656 2011-12-12 19:35:35 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: in any case, the same distrust about the network is why I think keepnode is important. A lot of spookyness goes away with a few manually configured trusted nodes.
 657 2011-12-12 19:35:49 <BlueMatt> agreed
 658 2011-12-12 19:36:00 <sipa> BlueMatt: where does your dns seed live?
 659 2011-12-12 19:36:10 <BlueMatt> the jenkins server...
 660 2011-12-12 19:36:16 <BlueMatt> (AWS)
 661 2011-12-12 19:36:43 <sipa> what host name i mean
 662 2011-12-12 19:36:49 <BlueMatt> dnsseedns.bluematt.me
 663 2011-12-12 19:36:50 <sipa> (not on my own computer right now)
 664 2011-12-12 19:39:55 <luke-jr> * a225351 Re-enable RPCSSL in gitian builds.
 665 2011-12-12 19:39:59 <luke-jr> ^ is this a bugfix?
 666 2011-12-12 19:40:17 <BlueMatt> yea
 667 2011-12-12 19:40:20 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: I think so— it wasn't intentionally turned off, and people using it have complained.
 668 2011-12-12 19:40:37 <BlueMatt> (might not be applicable to 0.4 though)
 669 2011-12-12 19:41:31 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no, but it is for 0.5.x
 670 2011-12-12 19:41:37 <BlueMatt> true
 671 2011-12-12 19:41:51 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr 0.5.x * r12c69167e367 bitcoind-stable/src/net.cpp: Merge branch '0.4.x' into 0.5.x http://tinyurl.com/cy3x57k
 672 2011-12-12 19:41:53 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Matt Corallo 0.5.x * r9a7f4948c6e6 bitcoind-stable/contrib/gitian-descriptors/ (gitian-win32.yml gitian.yml): Re-enable RPCSSL in gitian builds. http://tinyurl.com/brlqd3b
 673 2011-12-12 19:44:17 rdponticelli has joined
 674 2011-12-12 19:44:50 <luke-jr> fwiw, there are currently about 11,000 lines of code different between 0.5.x and master right now
 675 2011-12-12 19:45:12 <luke-jr> (8,000 of which are locale)
 676 2011-12-12 19:45:48 <luke-jr> (1,700 are Doxyfile)
 677 2011-12-12 19:46:17 <helo> 1.3k line changes is a ton...
 678 2011-12-12 19:46:34 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r75e50ce91669 gentoo/net-p2p/ (4 files in 2 dirs): net-p2p/bitcoin{-qt,d}: 9999 works with any miniupnpc version again http://tinyurl.com/cedct8o
 679 2011-12-12 19:46:42 <luke-jr> hence why I think master should just go ahead with 0.6 and leave 0.5.1 for a stable release :P
 680 2011-12-12 19:46:56 <BlueMatt> no way we have that many changes?
 681 2011-12-12 19:47:56 <luke-jr> 1,545 line diff after stripping out locales and Doxyfile
 682 2011-12-12 19:48:10 <luke-jr> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/519884/
 683 2011-12-12 19:48:22 <sipa> ok, DNS protocol seems easy enough to implement
 684 2011-12-12 19:48:36 <sipa> surprises me that i never looked up how it worked
 685 2011-12-12 19:48:53 <jgarzik> sipa: it is, but there are a lot of gotchas
 686 2011-12-12 19:49:11 <sipa> i hope that for a dns seed, many of them can be ignored
 687 2011-12-12 19:49:12 <CIA-100> DiabloMiner: Forrest Voight master * r8bf49df / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Gracefully handle H != 0 targets - http://git.io/aOKsKQ https://github.com/Diablo-D3/DiabloMiner/commit/8bf49df4d963212d957270ff83f02fe43a9153fe
 688 2011-12-12 19:49:13 <CIA-100> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r675498c / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Merge pull request #34 from forrestv/all_targets ... https://github.com/Diablo-D3/DiabloMiner/commit/675498c72cda9c5f89320ec7e0a0df43a0aeda88
 689 2011-12-12 19:49:15 <luke-jr> otoh, SecureString changes *might* qualify as a bugfix for Bitcoin-Qt… it didn't make any practical security improvement for bitcoind, but might for the GUI
 690 2011-12-12 19:50:00 <sipa> jgarzik: like just looking at the first question record (or even not at all), ignoring things like authorativity, ...
 691 2011-12-12 19:50:01 <gavinandresen> tcatm: ping
 692 2011-12-12 19:50:04 <jgarzik> sipa: resolvers and servers expect certain things.  it is -very- easy to have overflow/corruption bugs.  djb's "tinydns" is a great example to read.  you should not return more than 512 bytes without special considerations
 693 2011-12-12 19:50:05 <tcatm> gavinandresen: pong
 694 2011-12-12 19:50:29 <luke-jr> SecureString is only 285 lines though
 695 2011-12-12 19:50:29 <gavinandresen> tcatm:  Are there more translations ready to go into a 0.5.0.1 release?
 696 2011-12-12 19:50:33 <jgarzik> sipa: yep, standard is one (1) question
 697 2011-12-12 19:50:44 <jgarzik> anymore, and some software pukes
 698 2011-12-12 19:50:53 <tcatm> gavinandresen: I think so. just a moment
 699 2011-12-12 19:51:01 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: it makes no sense at all to make a 0.5.0.1 from master…
 700 2011-12-12 19:51:11 <luke-jr> 0.5.1 maybe, but not 0.5.0.1
 701 2011-12-12 19:51:17 * sipa says 0.5.1
 702 2011-12-12 19:51:40 * jgarzik nods noddingly
 703 2011-12-12 19:51:42 <BlueMatt> we really have no new features though, so 0.6 doesnt make much sense to me...
 704 2011-12-12 19:51:53 <sipa> it's only bugfixes, so 0.5.1
 705 2011-12-12 19:51:54 <luke-jr> if you guys do 0.5.1 from the current master, I will rename 0.5.x to 0.5.0.x, and probably not support it for long
 706 2011-12-12 19:51:57 <BlueMatt> 0.5.0.1 is a bit much...
 707 2011-12-12 19:52:09 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: there are a bunch of features already ACK'd for 0.6 that could be merged in a day
 708 2011-12-12 19:52:21 <sipa> luke-jr: i would suggest that you "take over" old branches as soon as the next major release is out
 709 2011-12-12 19:52:39 <luke-jr> sipa: sure, 0.5.x is a draft branch right now
 710 2011-12-12 19:52:53 <sipa> as in, maybe do a backported 0.5.2 based on 0.5.1 + 0.6 bugfixes, after 0.6 is out
 711 2011-12-12 19:52:54 <luke-jr> sipa: if the next release from master turns out to be 0.5.1, it gets renamed :P
 712 2011-12-12 19:53:16 <luke-jr> ok
 713 2011-12-12 19:53:26 <sipa> if that's fine by you, of course
 714 2011-12-12 19:53:40 <gavinandresen> Ok, so 0.5.1...   as soon as all the translations are pulled, I'll start creating a rc1 from master.
 715 2011-12-12 19:53:42 <luke-jr> easier to apply the fixes to a branch as they're applied to master IMO, but for practical (ie, release) purposes, sounds fine
 716 2011-12-12 19:54:45 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: ... and what is the status of reproducible builds?  Windows still not reproducible?
 717 2011-12-12 19:55:22 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: should be afaik, I know me and wumpus got the same builds pre-0.5, but the 0.5-release ones I could not reproduce iirc
 718 2011-12-12 19:55:38 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: though i kinda forgot about that and never followed up...
 719 2011-12-12 19:56:03 * luke-jr renames 0.5.x to 0.5.0.x for now
 720 2011-12-12 19:56:11 <gavinandresen> More dns seeds would be higher priority
 721 2011-12-12 19:56:25 <sipa> jgarzik: 512 bytes response only? that would limit it to like 10 IP addresses
 722 2011-12-12 19:56:32 <BlueMatt> I think 2-3 dynamic ones should be in the next release...
 723 2011-12-12 19:56:34 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: speaking of which, did the DNS seed fix get merged?
 724 2011-12-12 19:56:39 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: yes
 725 2011-12-12 19:56:45 <sipa> that should be enough, actually
 726 2011-12-12 19:56:46 <luke-jr> oh good
 727 2011-12-12 19:56:57 <BlueMatt> (currently we have 2, and one is a static list)
 728 2011-12-12 19:57:35 <jgarzik> sipa: 512 bytes is what is widely supported.  Look into "EDNS" for details on longer packets.
 729 2011-12-12 19:57:44 <sipa> nah, no need for now
 730 2011-12-12 19:57:52 <jgarzik> sipa: you cannot unconditionally send back anything more than 512 bytes total
 731 2011-12-12 19:58:02 <sipa> ok, good to know
 732 2011-12-12 19:58:17 <luke-jr> sipa: are you working on a replacement for base58 btw?
 733 2011-12-12 19:58:34 <sipa> luke-jr: no, i've given up, actually
 734 2011-12-12 19:58:39 <jgarzik> sipa: also there is dispute as to whether or not omitting a copy of the question, in the answer, causes problems
 735 2011-12-12 19:58:54 <sipa> i'll just stick to keeping it
 736 2011-12-12 19:58:55 <jgarzik> ...which is another factor possibly limiting your response
 737 2011-12-12 19:58:55 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: pull 585 might be considered a bugfix
 738 2011-12-12 19:59:23 <jgarzik> DNS is the most complex "simple" protocol known to man ;-)
 739 2011-12-12 19:59:26 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Nils Schneider master * r7ad4ca9 / (4 files): updated translations: es es_CL nb ru - http://git.io/Z8HWtg https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/7ad4ca9c17696ad3cc573093f45faf39bae890c0
 740 2011-12-12 19:59:27 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Nils Schneider master * r1d8b4cd / (3 files in 2 dirs): added translations: pt_BR zh_CN - http://git.io/eZOveg https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/1d8b4cd544018814a064730ca62e9169f8456ccd
 741 2011-12-12 19:59:30 <tcatm> gavinandresen: done
 742 2011-12-12 19:59:42 <luke-jr> sipa: so do we just give up on trying to make a spec for version numbers, and choose them arbitrarily?
 743 2011-12-12 19:59:45 <gavinandresen> tcatm: thanks
 744 2011-12-12 20:00:12 <luke-jr> maybe pull 673 too
 745 2011-12-12 20:00:45 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: I'll cherry-pick just the caps-lock check/warning from 585
 746 2011-12-12 20:00:52 <sipa> luke-jr: the OP_EVAL proposal is the first to need a new version number byte, since any discussion about them started
 747 2011-12-12 20:01:07 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: I think you can git merge just the relevant commit, too
 748 2011-12-12 20:01:09 <tcatm> it might be a good idea to ask for help with translations in the next release notes again. there are a few translations that are almost complete
 749 2011-12-12 20:01:30 <helo> are many miners indicating support for OP_EVAL yet?
 750 2011-12-12 20:01:38 <sipa> luke-jr: currently gavin uses 2/109, according to "my" proposal, with new 'version' field
 751 2011-12-12 20:01:47 <gavinandresen> tcatm: ok, if you want specific wording (or help with particular translations) send me email with suggested text
 752 2011-12-12 20:01:52 <luke-jr> sipa: yes, which falls short of end user requirements
 753 2011-12-12 20:01:52 <sipa> luke-jr: however, i agree that is actually requires a new data class instead of a new version
 754 2011-12-12 20:02:01 <CIA-100> bitcoin: various 0.5.0.x * r9a7f49..aaa1c3 bitcoind-stable/ (554 files in 73 dirs): (559 commits) http://tinyurl.com/7anqaem
 755 2011-12-12 20:02:34 <sipa> luke-jr: agree, byte 2 is really the worst choice there is
 756 2011-12-12 20:02:57 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: I think we should wait until 0.6 to pull 673
 757 2011-12-12 20:02:57 <luke-jr> 1 is worse :P
 758 2011-12-12 20:03:31 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: k, I have no preference, just throwing out ideas
 759 2011-12-12 20:04:11 <luke-jr> and yes, 'git merge 7298ebb' should work for JUST the CapsLock bit
 760 2011-12-12 20:04:39 <luke-jr> might edit the commit message to make it look pretty if you want ;P
 761 2011-12-12 20:05:04 <sipa> luke-jr: i'm afraid that any standard we try to make up will only be followed by us ourselves
 762 2011-12-12 20:05:36 <gavinandresen> tcatm: RCC: Error in 'src/qt/bitcoin.qrc': Cannot find file 'locale/bitcoin_pt_BR.qm'
 763 2011-12-12 20:05:37 <luke-jr> sipa: I don't think it's possible to make a standard that suits the end-user requirement of aesthetics, and still using base58
 764 2011-12-12 20:06:06 <gavinandresen> tcatm: the .ts file is there....
 765 2011-12-12 20:06:12 <tcatm> gavinandresen: run qmake
 766 2011-12-12 20:06:24 <sipa> luke-jr: agree, plus hopefully end users will hopefully not see much base58 anyway in the future, so it's "only for now"
 767 2011-12-12 20:06:30 <gavinandresen> tcatm: ah, thanks
 768 2011-12-12 20:06:49 <[Tycho]> Make good version numbers :)
 769 2011-12-12 20:07:42 <luke-jr> sipa: in that case, I propose OP_EVAL use versions 3 and 115 ;)
 770 2011-12-12 20:08:01 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r5491c31 / (3 files in 2 dirs): Merge commit '7298ebb' - http://git.io/qB65Vg https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/5491c310a6c70220e32c123ba7b8ce3da3e26126
 771 2011-12-12 20:08:01 <luke-jr> which means they begin with '2' and 'o'
 772 2011-12-12 20:09:50 <sipa> luke-jr: under your last proposal, it would become 4/5 and 196/197
 773 2011-12-12 20:09:54 <sipa> right?
 774 2011-12-12 20:10:51 <[Tycho]> Why 'o' ?
 775 2011-12-12 20:12:57 <luke-jr> sipa: 5 and 196, yes
 776 2011-12-12 20:13:10 <luke-jr> sipa: '3' and '2'
 777 2011-12-12 20:13:36 <luke-jr> sipa: think we should just use that proposal so long as we're dealing with 20-byte content?
 778 2011-12-12 20:13:54 <sipa> except it breaks testnet
 779 2011-12-12 20:14:04 <luke-jr> sipa: ?
 780 2011-12-12 20:14:22 <sipa> your proposal breaks testnet version bytes, right?
 781 2011-12-12 20:14:26 <luke-jr> it changes it
 782 2011-12-12 20:14:36 <luke-jr> and it's going to be restarted Jan 1 anyway
 783 2011-12-12 20:14:40 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 784 2011-12-12 20:15:16 <sipa> gavinandresen: would you consider changing the op_eval version codes to 5 and 196, and testnet to 192 after reset?
 785 2011-12-12 20:15:40 <gavinandresen> sure
 786 2011-12-12 20:16:36 <sipa> ok, that'll at least give recognizable addresses
 787 2011-12-12 20:16:38 <[Tycho]> What initial characters will it produce ?
 788 2011-12-12 20:16:53 dvide has joined
 789 2011-12-12 20:17:01 nhodges has joined
 790 2011-12-12 20:17:04 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
 791 2011-12-12 20:17:53 <sipa> ah, it also changes private keys
 792 2011-12-12 20:18:21 <sipa> hmm, wonder if that means we'd need a compatibility mode (e.g. for tools like vanitygen that generate private keys in the old format)
 793 2011-12-12 20:19:30 rdponticelli has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 794 2011-12-12 20:20:46 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: '3' for mainnet, '2' for testnet
 795 2011-12-12 20:21:22 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: testnet addresses, whether pubkey or OP_EVAL, will always be '2' this way
 796 2011-12-12 20:21:23 <BlueMatt> wait you are changing the bits for mainnet addresses?
 797 2011-12-12 20:21:34 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: mainnet will be '1' for pubkey, and '3' for OP_EVAL
 798 2011-12-12 20:21:47 <BlueMatt> mmm
 799 2011-12-12 20:22:12 <sipa> luke-jr: so privkeys will use 13 "6..."
 800 2011-12-12 20:22:17 <BlueMatt> still, why are we so drastically overhauling these numbers...
 801 2011-12-12 20:22:32 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: cool.
 802 2011-12-12 20:22:35 <luke-jr> sipa: right
 803 2011-12-12 20:22:37 <BlueMatt> human readability/identifyability is nice, but not worth it...
 804 2011-12-12 20:22:38 <sipa> and 204 "2..."
 805 2011-12-12 20:22:48 <[Tycho]> BlueMatt: worth it.
 806 2011-12-12 20:22:49 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it's arguably the most important factor
 807 2011-12-12 20:23:04 <luke-jr> sipa: wait, no
 808 2011-12-12 20:23:04 <sipa> the only thing i don't like is that we need to break testnet and privkeys, but that's the only downside
 809 2011-12-12 20:23:07 <BlueMatt> except that now you have to change testnet addresses, privkey prefixes
 810 2011-12-12 20:23:10 <luke-jr> sipa: because private keys aren't length 20
 811 2011-12-12 20:23:11 <BlueMatt> and namecoin, right?
 812 2011-12-12 20:23:17 <sipa> luke-jr: oh, right
 813 2011-12-12 20:23:28 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: latest proposal is namecoin-compatible
 814 2011-12-12 20:23:36 <BlueMatt> mmm, well I guess thats a plus
 815 2011-12-12 20:23:44 <sipa> and privkeys were never merged
 816 2011-12-12 20:23:58 <luke-jr> sipa: non-length-20 has no reason to follow any of my proposals.
 817 2011-12-12 20:24:16 <luke-jr> sipa: if possible, it would make sense to use one of the length-20-unusable version numbers
 818 2011-12-12 20:24:17 <sipa> luke-jr: sure, could you check what characters result for length 32?
 819 2011-12-12 20:24:18 <luke-jr> what is it now?
 820 2011-12-12 20:24:22 <luke-jr> yes
 821 2011-12-12 20:24:35 <sipa> 128 and 239
 822 2011-12-12 20:25:28 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: so you are doing an 0.5.1 in the next couple days?
 823 2011-12-12 20:25:29 <luke-jr> mmm, 128 is at least redundant for 20-byte…
 824 2011-12-12 20:25:35 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: sounds like right now
 825 2011-12-12 20:25:49 <luke-jr> sipa: 32-byte is looking worse than 20-byte
 826 2011-12-12 20:26:08 <luke-jr> are priv keys really 32-byte?
 827 2011-12-12 20:26:21 <sipa> yes
 828 2011-12-12 20:26:33 <luke-jr> every version starting with 30 is yielding '2' so far
 829 2011-12-12 20:26:53 <luke-jr> I assume there's a checksum still?
 830 2011-12-12 20:26:56 <sipa> yes
 831 2011-12-12 20:26:58 <BlueMatt> in that case, sipa can you commit a dns name for a dnsseed, and worry about getting the seed running later?
 832 2011-12-12 20:27:03 <luke-jr> ah, it moved on to '3'
 833 2011-12-12 20:27:11 <BlueMatt> (CNAME it to your fallback node for now, or something)
 834 2011-12-12 20:27:37 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: yes, 0.5.1 as soon as I figure out why my gitian machine's ethernet connection isn't working....
 835 2011-12-12 20:27:58 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: if you want to add dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org., I can CNAME that to one of your dnsseeds until I have something going
 836 2011-12-12 20:28:18 <BlueMatt> either way, just someone add another dnsseed
 837 2011-12-12 20:28:31 <sipa> BlueMatt: adding CNAME
 838 2011-12-12 20:28:35 <luke-jr> just tell me where to CNAME it for now
 839 2011-12-12 20:28:41 <BlueMatt> 2 more is better than 1 too
 840 2011-12-12 20:28:58 <BlueMatt> mine is at dnsseed.bluematt.me though Im not sure its better to have the addresses added twice...
 841 2011-12-12 20:29:24 <BlueMatt> maybe just cname it to a fallback node, or maybe just make it not have an A record
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 843 2011-12-12 20:30:27 <luke-jr> dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org. 60  IN  CNAME   bitseed.xf2.org.
 844 2011-12-12 20:30:43 <BlueMatt> works for me
 845 2011-12-12 20:30:52 <luke-jr> I'll setup something better later
 846 2011-12-12 20:31:10 <[Tycho]> Do someone knows why bitcoind generates data in getwork longer than 80 bytes ? I mean, why the other part is concatenated with block header ?
 847 2011-12-12 20:31:12 <diki> very centralized...this dns seed
 848 2011-12-12 20:31:25 <BlueMatt> diki: less than irc
 849 2011-12-12 20:31:36 <luke-jr> diki: that's why we're adding more
 850 2011-12-12 20:31:52 <diki> you'd need to add a few thousand more
 851 2011-12-12 20:32:19 <BlueMatt> if someone can come up with a decentralized bootstrap mechanism you will be regarded as the most brilliant computer scientist ever
 852 2011-12-12 20:32:30 <sipa> seed.bitcoin.sipa.be.	43200	IN	CNAME	bitcoin.sipa.be.
 853 2011-12-12 20:32:39 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I did that a while ago. It's just not practical yet. ;P
 854 2011-12-12 20:32:46 <luke-jr> anycast or multicast
 855 2011-12-12 20:32:50 <BlueMatt> heh
 856 2011-12-12 20:33:15 <diki> luke-jr:you will give me a bit credit, right :D
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 858 2011-12-12 20:33:46 <luke-jr> diki: no
 859 2011-12-12 20:34:22 <luke-jr> sipa: http://pastebin.com/4cUWhiN8
 860 2011-12-12 20:34:27 <BlueMatt> sipa: want to commit them to the repo?
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 862 2011-12-12 20:35:05 <luke-jr> sipa: fine by me to leave the privkey version at 128 :P
 863 2011-12-12 20:35:06 <jgarzik> sipa: that's the host, or the DNS server?
 864 2011-12-12 20:35:15 <BlueMatt> (as long as luke doesnt start statically adding eligius relays to his dnsseed)
 865 2011-12-12 20:35:39 <sipa> jgarzik: for now it's a CNAME, i'll change it to an NS later as soon as an nameserver is running there
 866 2011-12-12 20:35:56 <jgarzik> FWIW my DNS seed is a static list of fallback nodes
 867 2011-12-12 20:35:57 <jgarzik> i.e. lame
 868 2011-12-12 20:36:09 <luke-jr> LOL
 869 2011-12-12 20:36:13 <sipa> mine is a static list of one node
 870 2011-12-12 20:36:16 <sipa> i.e. pathetic
 871 2011-12-12 20:36:21 <jgarzik> :)
 872 2011-12-12 20:36:24 <diki> jgarzik:static is so..90s
 873 2011-12-12 20:36:24 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: last I heard those were usually all overloaded ;)
 874 2011-12-12 20:36:31 <luke-jr> jgarzik: I think you're the only DNS seed left…
 875 2011-12-12 20:36:38 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: mine is back up
 876 2011-12-12 20:36:47 <luke-jr> ah
 877 2011-12-12 20:36:52 <BlueMatt> (has been since last night, I think it was only down a couple hours)
 878 2011-12-12 20:37:30 <jgarzik> does anyone offer AWS access w/ bitcoin payments?
 879 2011-12-12 20:37:55 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: that's a good idea...  I think AWS allows resellers.
 880 2011-12-12 20:38:11 localhost has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 881 2011-12-12 20:39:00 <luke-jr> sipa: after all, in the current proposal, 128 is reserved
 882 2011-12-12 20:39:01 <BlueMatt> (someone who runs a bitcoin vps service asked me a while back on instructions on how to set up a dnsseed...)
 883 2011-12-12 20:40:09 <diki> BlueMatt:tbh, you are the fastest learner i've ever seen
 884 2011-12-12 20:40:15 <BlueMatt> ???
 885 2011-12-12 20:40:27 <diki> you seem to grasp things from the first try
 886 2011-12-12 20:40:32 <BlueMatt> heh, I wish
 887 2011-12-12 20:40:35 <BlueMatt> Ive met much faster...
 888 2011-12-12 20:40:36 Kolky has joined
 889 2011-12-12 20:41:10 * BlueMatt usually googles before asking questions, it makes him seem smarter ;)
 890 2011-12-12 20:41:42 localhost has joined
 891 2011-12-12 20:45:49 <BlueMatt> yay free food in compsci building for undergrads paid for by google :)
 892 2011-12-12 20:46:05 <BlueMatt> thanks google and your ridiculous quantities of cash
 893 2011-12-12 20:49:20 <sipa> luke-jr: i really hate how every testnet thing will end up having first character '2'
 894 2011-12-12 20:49:43 Eliel_ is now known as Eliel
 895 2011-12-12 20:50:19 <luke-jr> sipa: saves more characters for real networks :D
 896 2011-12-12 20:50:20 <[Tycho]> Testnet addresses will start with the same char as mainnet ?
 897 2011-12-12 20:50:30 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: no, ONLY testnet will start with '2'
 898 2011-12-12 20:50:47 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: but BOTH testnet pubkey and testnet OP_EVAL
 899 2011-12-12 20:50:59 <luke-jr> sipa: also, recall that this proposal is only valid for 20 byte data
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 909 2011-12-12 21:16:24 <diki> Hmm
 910 2011-12-12 21:16:41 <diki> I think that monitors should have USB ports
 911 2011-12-12 21:16:52 <diki> and via HDMI or other cable communicate with the motherboard
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 913 2011-12-12 21:20:09 <BlueMatt> usb hubs on monitors was popular for a while
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 916 2011-12-12 21:21:53 <diki> I could've also used an HDMI cable if they werent so expensive
 917 2011-12-12 21:21:56 <diki> ...and short
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 924 2011-12-12 21:49:27 <[Tycho]> diki: some HDMI cables aren't short.
 925 2011-12-12 21:50:21 <cjdelisle> hdmi needs to die
 926 2011-12-12 21:50:43 <[Tycho]> But there is nothing to replace it.
 927 2011-12-12 21:51:16 * cjdelisle uses VGA to connect DVI compatible video cards to DVI compatible monitors
 928 2011-12-12 21:52:33 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: yes there is.
 929 2011-12-12 21:53:16 <luke-jr> DisplayPort and/or HDBaseT
 930 2011-12-12 21:54:36 <BlueMatt> DP also needs to die
 931 2011-12-12 21:54:49 <BlueMatt> the licensing costs make even DP cables expensive compared to hdmi/dvi
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 933 2011-12-12 21:59:03 <luke-jr> :o
 934 2011-12-12 21:59:09 <luke-jr> wtf are you licensing?
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 937 2011-12-12 22:01:01 <BlueMatt> ok, so I assumed that was true, but dp cabes always tend to be more expensive and can sometimes be waay more expensive...
 938 2011-12-12 22:01:19 <BlueMatt> no way they dont have ridiculous licensing costs
 939 2011-12-12 22:01:26 <luke-jr> to license what?
 940 2011-12-12 22:01:34 <luke-jr> mere cables are pure interface.
 941 2011-12-12 22:01:39 <luke-jr> interfaces cannot be copyrighted.
 942 2011-12-12 22:01:48 <BlueMatt> heh
 943 2011-12-12 22:01:52 <BlueMatt> and yet they are...
 944 2011-12-12 22:01:59 <luke-jr> says who?
 945 2011-12-12 22:02:07 <gmaxwell> Rambus. ;)
 946 2011-12-12 22:02:11 * gmaxwell badaboom
 947 2011-12-12 22:02:14 <BlueMatt> apple
 948 2011-12-12 22:02:19 <BlueMatt> go try to make one of their power cables
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 950 2011-12-12 22:02:45 <cjdelisle> gotta love how there's no law and yet someone says there's a law and people act like there's a law and everything behaves asif there was :/
 951 2011-12-12 22:03:09 <BlueMatt> when it comes to copyright it often works out that way...
 952 2011-12-12 22:03:18 <BlueMatt> fair use, bullshit no such thing
 953 2011-12-12 22:03:32 <cjdelisle> /nod
 954 2011-12-12 22:04:07 <cjdelisle> mixing copyright, patent, license agreement, and legal fiction together to make the legal environment they want
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 958 2011-12-12 22:05:19 <BlueMatt> yep
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 967 2011-12-12 22:28:13 <CIA-100> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r13d436e / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Moving 3 threads per device to 2, AMD fixed CPU use bug - http://git.io/f_-rFA https://github.com/Diablo-D3/DiabloMiner/commit/13d436e6f33689f68fa2f0038d5ef3f3230df36b
 968 2011-12-12 22:28:14 <CIA-100> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r8d8e4f2 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Merge branch 'master' of github.com:Diablo-D3/DiabloMiner - http://git.io/Ac1Mbw https://github.com/Diablo-D3/DiabloMiner/commit/8d8e4f23a7dd44b83df4f7a60d3a0197e2c30258
 969 2011-12-12 22:28:15 <CIA-100> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r6138aeb / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Reduce FPS management aggression - http://git.io/I8MgEw https://github.com/Diablo-D3/DiabloMiner/commit/6138aeb7e183f5dbdf1f967d2f84b292f0af8ec1
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 974 2011-12-12 23:00:21 <the_batman> alright, I figured out the first real world application of bitcoin
 975 2011-12-12 23:00:22 <the_batman> :D
 976 2011-12-12 23:00:40 <the_batman> I wanna go non-profit on this one. Is there a team I could or should hook up with?
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 978 2011-12-12 23:01:37 <helo> write it and release it, or you won't be able to build much of a team
 979 2011-12-12 23:04:31 <BlueMatt> care to share?
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 981 2011-12-12 23:06:52 <Eliel> the_batman: if you want to go non-profit with it, I think it's best to share the idea with as many people as possible to see what people think.
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 994 2011-12-12 23:40:31 <jgarzik> when I hear "non-profit", my brain usually translates it into "unsustainable without continued donations"
 995 2011-12-12 23:41:14 <BlueMatt> heh
 996 2011-12-12 23:42:06 <cjdelisle> when I hear not-for-profit, I think of not-for-paying-taxes
 997 2011-12-12 23:42:28 <cjdelisle> *cough* NPR
 998 2011-12-12 23:44:07 <luke-jr> when I hear "non-profit", I think "employees take home all the profit"
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1000 2011-12-12 23:47:24 <copumpkin> you should get your ears checked
1001 2011-12-12 23:47:33 <copumpkin> those don't sound alike at all
1002 2011-12-12 23:48:13 <Eliel> :D
1003 2011-12-12 23:50:32 <luke-jr> copumpkin: that's the reality of it in the USA :P
1004 2011-12-12 23:51:23 <copumpkin> man, I should work for a non-profit
1005 2011-12-12 23:51:59 <luke-jr> lol
1006 2011-12-12 23:54:12 kjj has joined
1007 2011-12-12 23:54:59 <copumpkin> that way I can sound like less of a sellout, and still make good money
1008 2011-12-12 23:54:59 * BlueMatt believes in a bitcoin non-profit which just randomly sends bitcoins to anyone who says stuff in #bitcoin-dev :)
1009 2011-12-12 23:55:15 <copumpkin> BlueMatt: sounds like that puts incentives in all the right places
1010 2011-12-12 23:57:09 <cjdelisle> a charity to help poor developers... sounds like a plan!
1011 2011-12-12 23:57:34 <BlueMatt> copumpkin: fine we can do it by git commits, but that means I actually have to work...
1012 2011-12-12 23:57:42 <BlueMatt> (or split my commits up into 1-char diffs)
1013 2011-12-12 23:58:44 <copumpkin> yeah, incentives are good there too
1014 2011-12-12 23:59:12 <BlueMatt> commit, revert, commit, revert, commit, revert...PROFIT
1015 2011-12-12 23:59:35 <cjdelisle> heh
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