1 2011-12-17 00:00:54 dan__ has quit (Quit: dan__)
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  3 2011-12-17 00:02:19 <onelineproof> any documentation for how to import/export private keys into and out of the wallet.dat using c?
  4 2011-12-17 00:03:10 slush has joined
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  8 2011-12-17 00:06:17 pumpmas is now known as copumpkin
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 10 2011-12-17 00:07:00 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr txn_block_info * r794b0d7812e0 bitcoind-personal/src/rpc.cpp: Add block_hash and block_index to transaction info http://tinyurl.com/6qq8wmg
 11 2011-12-17 00:12:29 <Diablo-D3> ;;ticker
 12 2011-12-17 00:12:30 <gribble> Best bid: 3.19241, Best ask: 3.2, Bid-ask spread: 0.00759, Last trade: 3.2, 24 hour volume: 29798, 24 hour low: 3.15, 24 hour high: 3.22
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 15 2011-12-17 00:16:58 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr txn_block_info * rcce16fdc6871 bitcoind-personal/src/rpc.cpp: Add blockhash and blockindex to transaction info http://tinyurl.com/72jzkv7
 16 2011-12-17 00:21:29 <kinlo> that last commit luke did should end up in the main client imho
 17 2011-12-17 00:21:54 <kinlo> I have it in my version too, and I guess anybody can benefit from it
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 24 2011-12-17 00:43:14 <[Tycho]> I did it ! http://blockexplorer.com/tx/4f1433d6433d3ce8a877519ba9ddc310dbee96dba939aca0dbef0176a3563436
 25 2011-12-17 00:44:59 <Diablo-D3> you did what?
 26 2011-12-17 00:45:13 <copumpkin> "it"
 27 2011-12-17 00:45:17 * copumpkin hides
 28 2011-12-17 00:45:18 <Diablo-D3> you got laid?!
 29 2011-12-17 00:45:22 <Diablo-D3> congradulations!
 30 2011-12-17 00:46:42 <[Tycho]> Heh, poor Diablo-D3 :)
 31 2011-12-17 00:46:51 BlueMatt has joined
 32 2011-12-17 00:46:56 <Diablo-D3> why poor me? I get laid frequently.
 33 2011-12-17 00:47:05 <Diablo-D3> Its quite fun actually
 34 2011-12-17 00:47:24 <BlueMatt> anyone feel like providing comments as to the how bitcoin's overall architecture *should* be
 35 2011-12-17 00:47:26 <BlueMatt> ?
 36 2011-12-17 00:47:35 <[Tycho]> Why do you think that it's worth congratulations then ? :)
 37 2011-12-17 00:48:06 <[Tycho]> BlueMatt: current system doesn't allows money to be sent safely to a non-address.
 38 2011-12-17 00:48:20 <BlueMatt> [Tycho]: I mean the code flow
 39 2011-12-17 00:48:24 <[Tycho]> May be OP_EVAL will help, but it's a bit complicated.
 40 2011-12-17 00:48:30 <BlueMatt> ie where classes should be defined
 41 2011-12-17 00:48:51 danbri has joined
 42 2011-12-17 00:48:51 <[Tycho]> The most important thing for me now is to force fixing of math operands in scripts.
 43 2011-12-17 00:50:23 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: thanks, keepnode rebased
 44 2011-12-17 00:50:32 <[Tycho]> BlueMatt: do you like my new TX ? :)
 45 2011-12-17 00:50:44 <BlueMatt> what new tx?
 46 2011-12-17 00:50:57 <[Tycho]> See link.
 47 2011-12-17 00:51:06 <BlueMatt> ...what link?
 48 2011-12-17 00:51:17 <BlueMatt> (I just joined)
 49 2011-12-17 00:51:49 <[Tycho]> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/4f1433d6433d3ce8a877519ba9ddc310dbee96dba939aca0dbef0176a3563436
 50 2011-12-17 00:52:52 <BlueMatt> [Tycho]: a password tx?
 51 2011-12-17 00:53:18 <[Tycho]> Actually an experiment with strange TXes.
 52 2011-12-17 00:53:38 <[Tycho]> Can't work as password TX really because it's vulnerable.
 53 2011-12-17 00:53:39 <BlueMatt> [Tycho]: Ive done one of those before, but getting it mined was impossible so had to double-spend it instead
 54 2011-12-17 00:53:50 <BlueMatt> (it was a challenge to see who could spend it)
 55 2011-12-17 00:54:05 <[Tycho]> And that's sad because it's fun to make transactions via non-address outputs.
 56 2011-12-17 00:54:06 <BlueMatt> [Tycho]: yea, no its a terrible password tx but it is a password tx...
 57 2011-12-17 00:54:30 <BlueMatt> yep
 58 2011-12-17 00:54:40 <BlueMatt> (though still necessary)
 59 2011-12-17 00:55:05 Turingi has joined
 60 2011-12-17 00:55:13 <[Tycho]> I wonder if conditional operators will work too...
 61 2011-12-17 00:55:43 <[Tycho]> Looks like almost all of those OPs are completely useless without OP_EVAL.
 62 2011-12-17 00:56:10 <BlueMatt> yea, for the most part
 63 2011-12-17 00:56:21 <BlueMatt> even with OP_EVAL they are vulnerable
 64 2011-12-17 00:56:52 <[Tycho]> I'm curious to find some use for them.
 65 2011-12-17 00:57:37 <BlueMatt> you could do like a password+sig tx, though the password is worthless against well-connected attackers...
 66 2011-12-17 00:57:40 <[Tycho]> By the way, what do you think about implementing bignumbered math OPs instead of current 4-byte ones ?
 67 2011-12-17 00:57:42 <BlueMatt> ie pools
 68 2011-12-17 00:58:06 <BlueMatt> if there is a use-case, ok...but what?
 69 2011-12-17 00:58:40 <[Tycho]> Someone suggested adding AES-encrypted private key, but that's same thing.
 70 2011-12-17 00:58:59 <[Tycho]> BlueMatt: to make them more useful.
 71 2011-12-17 00:59:17 <BlueMatt> ok, whats a usecase for them being used at all?
 72 2011-12-17 00:59:27 <[Tycho]> Not found yet.
 73 2011-12-17 00:59:32 <[Tycho]> But why they are there ?
 74 2011-12-17 00:59:38 <BlueMatt> ok, so why argue for their inclusion?
 75 2011-12-17 00:59:51 <BlueMatt> because satoshi wanted to make sure you could do anything in bitcoin scripts...
 76 2011-12-17 01:00:09 <[Tycho]> For example, PoW-keys :)
 77 2011-12-17 01:00:20 <BlueMatt> heh, oh god...
 78 2011-12-17 01:00:35 <[Tycho]> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=52378.msg626150#msg626150
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 81 2011-12-17 01:01:37 <BlueMatt> sipa: ping
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 83 2011-12-17 01:03:12 <BlueMatt> TD[gone]: ping
 84 2011-12-17 01:07:19 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 85 2011-12-17 01:07:29 <[Tycho]> As theymos said, "It could certainly be better than AES encryption if there was a script op that output a hash of the non-Script parts of transactions"
 86 2011-12-17 01:07:42 minimoose has joined
 87 2011-12-17 01:07:51 <[Tycho]> So I would like to use such OPs.
 88 2011-12-17 01:08:05 <[Tycho]> May be as "constants".
 89 2011-12-17 01:09:02 BlueMatt has joined
 90 2011-12-17 01:09:29 <BlueMatt> ok mobile internet sucks...
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 92 2011-12-17 01:10:12 <[Tycho]> As theymos said, "It could certainly be better than AES encryption if there was a script op that output a hash of the non-Script parts of transactions"
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 95 2011-12-17 01:12:45 <BlueMatt> heh, that would be useful
 96 2011-12-17 01:12:51 <[Tycho]> So I would like to use such OPs.
 97 2011-12-17 01:12:53 <[Tycho]> May be as "constants".
 98 2011-12-17 01:13:19 <BlueMatt> in any case, though many of the script ops allow cool stuff to be done, almost all of them have no practical real-world applications...
 99 2011-12-17 01:14:00 arneis has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
100 2011-12-17 01:15:46 <[Tycho]> I like cool stuff.
101 2011-12-17 01:17:05 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * rff1b96d2d4e5 / (5 files in 2 dirs): bdb size_t -> uint32_t for depth to be consistent. http://tinyurl.com/brmp3b5
102 2011-12-17 01:17:06 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * r3f48a8dfc3a8 /src/blockchain/postgresql/pq_blockchain.cpp: Remove inlining for function which can exist across multiple TUs by means of a declaration alone. http://tinyurl.com/c4p733z
103 2011-12-17 01:21:20 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: such things cannot be added without a blockchain fork
104 2011-12-17 01:21:34 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: maybe make a wiki page of things to add when we do that
105 2011-12-17 01:21:36 <[Tycho]> Why do you think so ?
106 2011-12-17 01:23:34 wasabi2 has joined
107 2011-12-17 01:29:49 <sipa> BlueMatt: pong?
108 2011-12-17 01:30:07 <BlueMatt> sipa: see gribble
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116 2011-12-17 01:45:18 <[Tycho]> Sorry for asking again, but... what was wrong with Gavin's "hidden address" script ?
117 2011-12-17 01:48:38 eueueue has joined
118 2011-12-17 01:54:28 <[Tycho]> Oh, I remember, because of crippled OP_ADD again.
119 2011-12-17 01:57:03 denisx has joined
120 2011-12-17 01:57:06 <[Tycho]> Another reason to fix it.
121 2011-12-17 02:01:49 <eueueue> newbie question: bitcoin plataform could be used to serving aerial images like google satellite?
122 2011-12-17 02:01:49 osmosis has joined
123 2011-12-17 02:02:28 <eueueue> to a project like: http://www.openaerialmap.org/Main_Page
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130 2011-12-17 02:27:11 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * r08a32dda1b71 / (7 files in 4 dirs): cast_chunk is little endian encoding by default. http://tinyurl.com/6s5e3a6
131 2011-12-17 02:27:12 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * r6edcee4e5df6 / (7 files in 4 dirs): Merge branch 'lil' http://tinyurl.com/7s26tjd
132 2011-12-17 02:27:14 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * r8b2b6b8763f3 /development-makefile: Updated Dev Makefile unit tests for base58 and big-number http://tinyurl.com/6su62vy
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136 2011-12-17 02:32:23 <EvanR> help i need tech support
137 2011-12-17 02:33:30 <EvanR> http://codepad.org/p42dnbyk
138 2011-12-17 02:33:53 <EvanR> background, my computer froze up when it ran out of memory, hdd thrashing
139 2011-12-17 02:34:04 <EvanR> had to kill bitcoin after it refused to close after about 3 hours of waiting
140 2011-12-17 02:34:10 <EvanR> now i can restart bitcoin
141 2011-12-17 02:34:12 <EvanR> cannot
142 2011-12-17 02:34:50 <denisx> throw the db away but keep your wallet
143 2011-12-17 02:34:52 <gmaxwell> make a backup copy of your .bitcoin directory. If you runout of room you can omit the blk0001.dat /blkindex.dat
144 2011-12-17 02:35:06 <gmaxwell> after making a backup (especially of wallet.dat)
145 2011-12-17 02:35:31 <gmaxwell> delete everything in the database subdirectory (all the .log files)
146 2011-12-17 02:35:48 <gmaxwell> if that doesn't make it happy, delete everything except wallet.dat and bitcoin.conf (if you have one)
147 2011-12-17 02:36:30 <gmaxwell> once you're up and happy again you can delete the backup I told you to make above (though you should make periodic backups of your wallet.dat file)
148 2011-12-17 02:36:52 <EvanR> i have backups
149 2011-12-17 02:37:03 <EvanR> im not sure if they are recent enough though
150 2011-12-17 02:37:15 <EvanR> but i made a backup of this wallet after the fiasco
151 2011-12-17 02:37:17 <gmaxwell> thats okay, its unlikely that you'll need them here.
152 2011-12-17 02:37:44 <EvanR> alright carrying out surgery
153 2011-12-17 02:37:51 <gmaxwell> to be maximally cautious you should backup more than just the wallet while doing a recovery. There can be wallet data in the database log files.
154 2011-12-17 02:38:02 <EvanR> oh
155 2011-12-17 02:38:08 <EvanR> good to know (tm)
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159 2011-12-17 02:39:00 <EvanR> cp is running, hope my hdd will survive
160 2011-12-17 02:44:42 <EvanR> uh oh
161 2011-12-17 02:44:44 <EvanR> cp: reading `.bitcoin/addr.dat': Input/output error
162 2011-12-17 02:46:54 <EvanR> cp: reading `.bitcoin/database/log.0000000290': Input/output error
163 2011-12-17 02:47:22 <gmaxwell> oh dear.
164 2011-12-17 02:47:29 <gmaxwell> well. at least those files aren't terribly important.
165 2011-12-17 02:47:56 <gmaxwell> get a copy of wallet.dat off that disk _now_ though. sounds like you may be suffering from a disk failure.
166 2011-12-17 02:50:30 Shaded has joined
167 2011-12-17 02:52:44 <EvanR> yeah
168 2011-12-17 02:52:46 <EvanR> me too
169 2011-12-17 02:52:51 <EvanR> i send a copy to gmail
170 2011-12-17 02:53:02 <luke-jr> scary.
171 2011-12-17 02:55:07 <EvanR> three log files total threw input output error
172 2011-12-17 02:55:10 <EvanR> so far
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191 2011-12-17 03:43:11 <EvanR> well i finished the backup
192 2011-12-17 03:43:30 <EvanR> now bitcoin is taking its sweet time booting up
193 2011-12-17 03:43:44 <EvanR> no errors yet
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198 2011-12-17 04:04:05 <diki> EvanR:redownloading the chain?
199 2011-12-17 04:04:08 <diki> that is boring
200 2011-12-17 04:04:09 sacarlson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
201 2011-12-17 04:04:45 <EvanR> no
202 2011-12-17 04:04:57 <EvanR> i have the block chain
203 2011-12-17 04:05:01 <EvanR> i dont have a working hard disk
204 2011-12-17 04:05:21 <diki> I havent fired up bitcoin in weeks
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206 2011-12-17 04:18:34 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * r42ff138a0d42 / (8 files in 4 dirs): cast_chunk is little endian encoding by default. http://tinyurl.com/6wrsxoj
207 2011-12-17 04:18:38 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * r7457075ffa59 / (development-makefile tests/merkle.cpp): Updated Dev Makefile unit tests for base58 and big-number http://tinyurl.com/8xuhlo4
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214 2011-12-17 04:27:04 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * r0692a52c03a8 / (9 files in 5 dirs): cast_chunk is little endian encoding by default. http://tinyurl.com/77svx3s
215 2011-12-17 04:27:05 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * r3d0465f57dbc / (development-makefile tests/merkle.cpp): Updated Dev Makefile unit tests for base58 and big-number http://tinyurl.com/7g7qjja
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237 2011-12-17 06:13:44 <onelineproof> anyone played with libdb? I'm trying to use it to read/write the wallet.dat, but I keep getting "undefined reference to `db_create'" on ubuntu
238 2011-12-17 06:15:05 <Diablo-D3> learn how to link libraries, dude
239 2011-12-17 06:15:42 <onelineproof> ya I used the "I" and "L" options together with -ldb
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241 2011-12-17 06:20:17 <Diablo-D3> onelineproof: are you sure you used the right ones, however?
242 2011-12-17 06:20:42 BurtyB has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
243 2011-12-17 06:22:09 <onelineproof> I downloaded the most recent libdb-5.2 from the oracle site, compiled it, and set the include and lib directories as options...so I don't know. I see similar problems on google, but no solution. Just thought maybe some people have this thing working here.
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246 2011-12-17 06:22:45 <Diablo-D3> woah woah woah
247 2011-12-17 06:22:49 <Diablo-D3> onelineproof: dont use that libdb
248 2011-12-17 06:22:53 <Diablo-D3> use 4.8
249 2011-12-17 06:22:55 <onelineproof> I'm trying to make a qr coder eventually
250 2011-12-17 06:23:06 <Diablo-D3> libdb upgrades databases one way, even when opened as read only
251 2011-12-17 06:23:21 <Diablo-D3> so if you open it in 5.x, you wont be able to open it in 4.8 ever again
252 2011-12-17 06:23:27 <Diablo-D3> which means it'll no longer work in bitcoin
253 2011-12-17 06:23:53 <onelineproof> ok ill try 4.8...
254 2011-12-17 06:24:20 wasabi1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
255 2011-12-17 06:31:27 <luke-jr> onelineproof: we already have a QR Coder
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260 2011-12-17 06:32:42 <onelineproof> I just want an easy way to export my private keys as qr codes offline, and also import them back into a wallet.dat
261 2011-12-17 06:32:52 <luke-jr> oh, private keys
262 2011-12-17 06:33:51 <onelineproof> i heard of a pywallet, but not sure if it's good, so ill see if I can do something easily with c
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264 2011-12-17 06:35:56 <luke-jr> I  use vanitygen
265 2011-12-17 06:37:00 <onelineproof> is that the javascript one?
266 2011-12-17 06:37:51 <onelineproof> o nevermind, something else
267 2011-12-17 06:37:51 <gmaxwell> onelineproof: use google.
268 2011-12-17 06:40:21 <onelineproof> i may try it but I think it's good to understand how it works, when theres potentially lots of money on the line.
269 2011-12-17 06:46:39 <luke-jr> practice.
270 2011-12-17 06:46:44 <luke-jr> use 0.01 BTC or testnet
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301 2011-12-17 09:24:56 <onelineproof> So I got the libdb working. I'm printing out the key, data pairs from the database, and it's mostly giberrish. Sometimes I see addresses as the part of the keys. But is there any specification that someone can direct me to?
302 2011-12-17 09:26:21 wasabi2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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304 2011-12-17 09:28:49 <PK> I can't compile bitcoind because of: net.cpp:1476: error: 'INT64_MIN' was not declared in this scope
305 2011-12-17 09:31:10 <PK> I have errors about missing INT64_MAX and UINT64_MAX too. I compile it on 32bit linux
306 2011-12-17 09:32:26 <cjdelisle> perhaps try adding
307 2011-12-17 09:32:32 <cjdelisle> #include <stdint.h>
308 2011-12-17 09:32:36 <cjdelisle> to the top of net.cpp
309 2011-12-17 09:32:43 <cjdelisle> but it's a longshot...
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313 2011-12-17 09:45:10 <PK> cjdelisle: I tried that but it didn't help it :(
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320 2011-12-17 10:22:17 <PK> bitcoin 4.0 compiles fine and it uses INT64_MIN too
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329 2011-12-17 10:40:11 <sipa> onelineproof: what do you need to know?
330 2011-12-17 10:40:51 <sipa> both keys and values are serialized data structures from the bitcoin program
331 2011-12-17 10:41:07 <sipa> looking in db.cpp in LoadWallet() will probably tell you a lot
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346 2011-12-17 11:26:00 <sausage2> Hi. Why does the new version of bitcoin want to change something in my windows registry: /controlset001/services/BITS ?
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385 2011-12-17 14:32:20 <sacarlson> so what have I missed?
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398 2011-12-17 15:20:36 <sausage2> zone-alarm: "bitcoin-qt-somethigsneomtom.exe" wants to access/edit/write/something a registery entry: /that which I said/
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424 2011-12-17 16:38:35 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: serious (derogatory) question
425 2011-12-17 16:38:45 OneFixt has joined
426 2011-12-17 16:38:47 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: what the hell are you smoking thinking pubkeys would fit better into qr codes than addresses?
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447 2011-12-17 17:17:34 <sausage2> does anyone want a bit of fish?
448 2011-12-17 17:18:20 <Mqrius> No thanks.
449 2011-12-17 17:20:22 eoss has joined
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453 2011-12-17 17:36:14 <sausage2> So... are you single?
454 2011-12-17 17:36:21 da2ce7 has joined
455 2011-12-17 17:38:33 <Mqrius> Nope.
456 2011-12-17 17:38:42 <Mqrius> Not sure how that's related though
457 2011-12-17 17:45:54 Shaded has quit (Quit: Shaded)
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459 2011-12-17 17:51:02 <sausage2> I'm a sausage.
460 2011-12-17 17:51:11 <sausage2> And you're not.
461 2011-12-17 17:51:28 <Mqrius> Quite the marmelade, eh chap?
462 2011-12-17 17:54:05 <sausage2> yes :)
463 2011-12-17 17:55:34 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
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465 2011-12-17 17:57:11 <Mqrius> It pains me to say I am summoned to depart this pear-factory post-haste.
466 2011-12-17 17:57:50 <Mqrius> Thanks for the blue ribbon!
467 2011-12-17 17:57:51 <rjk2> haste makes waste
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483 2011-12-17 18:39:30 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: get a clue
484 2011-12-17 18:39:59 <copumpkin> lol
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509 2011-12-17 19:45:44 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: obviously an address takes less space than a full pubkey, but in a QR code is more than enough space for full pubkeys
510 2011-12-17 19:47:08 <luke-jr> sipa: overall, an pubkey-hash address takes more space than a full pubkey
511 2011-12-17 19:47:34 <sipa> because of base58 encoding, you mean?
512 2011-12-17 19:48:24 <luke-jr> no
513 2011-12-17 19:48:40 <sipa> pubkeys are 33 or 65 bytes
514 2011-12-17 19:48:48 <sipa> pubkey hashes are 20+1 bytes
515 2011-12-17 19:48:57 <luke-jr> because a pubkeyhash address adds to the block chain: hash, pubkey, signature
516 2011-12-17 19:49:02 <luke-jr> a pubkey adds: pubkey, signature
517 2011-12-17 19:49:06 <sipa> oh in the blockchain
518 2011-12-17 19:49:09 <sipa> yes of course
519 2011-12-17 19:49:14 <sipa> that's why you'd want to use a pubkey
520 2011-12-17 19:50:24 <sipa> using key recovery, that wouldn't necessarily be the case
521 2011-12-17 19:50:38 <sipa> but the current script language doesn't allow that
522 2011-12-17 19:50:55 <luke-jr> key recovery is a Bitcoin 2.0 feature ;)
523 2011-12-17 19:50:58 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
524 2011-12-17 19:51:13 <sipa> yeah :p
525 2011-12-17 19:51:14 <luke-jr> pubkeys are 33 or 65, not 33 to 65, right?
526 2011-12-17 19:51:20 <sipa> or, indeed
527 2011-12-17 19:51:51 <sipa> 512 or 257 bits, actually
528 2011-12-17 19:52:03 <sipa> without the marker byte
529 2011-12-17 19:52:06 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
530 2011-12-17 19:52:16 <luke-jr> o.o
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533 2011-12-17 19:55:32 <luke-jr> sipa: is the base58 prefix '4' taken?
534 2011-12-17 19:56:03 <sipa> not used so far, afaik
535 2011-12-17 19:57:47 <luke-jr> I propose version 118 then
536 2011-12-17 19:58:02 <sipa> for?
537 2011-12-17 19:58:07 <luke-jr> for public keys
538 2011-12-17 19:58:09 <luke-jr> starts with '4' at length 33 and 65
539 2011-12-17 19:58:47 <luke-jr> actually, 116 would be slightly better
540 2011-12-17 19:58:55 <luke-jr> 116 also starts with '4'
541 2011-12-17 19:59:03 zeiris has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
542 2011-12-17 19:59:12 <luke-jr> but unlikely to ever be needed for 20-byte data
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553 2011-12-17 20:16:05 <luke-jr> oops
554 2011-12-17 20:16:08 <luke-jr> figured that wrong
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564 2011-12-17 20:42:29 <md2k7> can someone point me to an URL (or give me some search terms) on bitcoin addresses starting with a 3?
565 2011-12-17 20:42:31 amiller has joined
566 2011-12-17 20:42:57 <md2k7> (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Address says they can start with 1 or 3)
567 2011-12-17 20:44:26 Apexseals has joined
568 2011-12-17 20:44:27 <Apexseals> yeah
569 2011-12-17 20:44:29 <Apexseals> still happening
570 2011-12-17 20:44:32 <Apexseals> my 5850 wont clock up
571 2011-12-17 20:45:12 <sipa> md2k7: OP_EVAL addresses may start with a '3'
572 2011-12-17 20:45:17 <sipa> but they aren't in use yet
573 2011-12-17 20:46:39 <md2k7> sipa: I see, thanks
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584 2011-12-17 21:35:10 <onelineproof> Ill ask again: Is there more info on the encoding format / specification of wallet.dat? I'm using libdb to iterate through the database, but most of it doesn't print out in readable format.
585 2011-12-17 21:36:49 <gmaxwell> onelineproof: look at the source of bitcoin or the python wallet tools.
586 2011-12-17 21:37:07 <gmaxwell> There isn't much of anything 'printable' because there isn't much human-readable data in it.
587 2011-12-17 21:37:28 <onelineproof> I just want the private keys associated to each address. I can see the addresses.
588 2011-12-17 21:38:07 <onelineproof> I don't care about other things like transaction history
589 2011-12-17 21:38:58 <rjk2> pywallet does that right
590 2011-12-17 21:39:08 <onelineproof> But if it comes down to it, sure I can look at the source code
591 2011-12-17 21:39:23 <gmaxwell> if thats all you want just use https://github.com/gavinandresen/bitcointools to dump it.
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596 2011-12-17 21:46:59 <luke-jr> sipa: any reason not to require pubkey addresses to be compact?
597 2011-12-17 21:47:04 <luke-jr> ie, forbid 65 bytes
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615 2011-12-17 22:36:25 <Eliel> luke-jr: no need to require public key addresses to be compact, just require more fee to relay transactions with long ones :P
616 2011-12-17 22:36:47 <luke-jr> Eliel: the purpose of that was to ensure they begin with '4' ;)
617 2011-12-17 22:38:50 <Eliel> ... I don't think I'm awake enough to get this :)
618 2011-12-17 22:39:09 <luke-jr> Eliel: the only way to get a fixed base58 starting character, is for fixed-width data
619 2011-12-17 22:39:31 <Eliel> ah, makes sense now
620 2011-12-17 22:41:38 <Eliel> I see absolutely no reason to have non-compact pubkeys used in addresses. You can always calculate the full pubkey from it anyway.
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622 2011-12-17 22:46:21 <sipa> onelineproof: keys and values are both serialized data structures from the bitcoin program
623 2011-12-17 22:46:29 <sipa> onelineproof: look in db.cpp at LoadWallet
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625 2011-12-17 22:47:07 <sipa> there are ('key' + pubkey) keys whose values are OpenSSL serialized private keys
626 2011-12-17 22:47:42 <sipa> luke-jr: i hope we can move to compressed pubkeys soon
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629 2011-12-17 22:48:25 <sipa> i don't think they're remain any reason to use non-compressed ones, except for spending outputs that spend to a hash of an uncompressed one of course
630 2011-12-17 22:48:36 <sipa> except maybe legal issues...
631 2011-12-17 22:50:02 <sipa> s/they're/there will/
632 2011-12-17 22:53:16 <gmaxwell> Why would you want to use pubkey addresses?
633 2011-12-17 22:53:36 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: to save block chain space, when long addresses aren't a problem
634 2011-12-17 22:53:42 <luke-jr> ie, QR codes
635 2011-12-17 22:53:49 <gmaxwell> sipa: sadly I don't know of any good early citations for the point compressed form even though its pretty trivial.
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637 2011-12-17 22:54:36 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: the input scripts are super prunable, space in input scripts isn't so exciting... and they aren't smaller in output scripts which matter more.
638 2011-12-17 22:55:10 <sipa> gmaxwell: read this: http://cr.yp.to/patents/us/6141420.html
639 2011-12-17 22:55:19 <gmaxwell> They also have different security properties: if people start to become able to break ecdsa they can't even begin to attack a never-spent-from-address.
640 2011-12-17 22:55:24 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: they're not?
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642 2011-12-17 22:55:56 <sipa> gmaxwell: but pruning isn't available right now, and it's not entirely clear to me how it will become available
643 2011-12-17 22:56:00 <gmaxwell> sipa: (dunno if you know about it but the classic reference for safe ecc is  https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6090 )
644 2011-12-17 22:56:29 <gmaxwell> sipa: then we should be pushing for key recovery, which is smaller than payments to pubkeys.
645 2011-12-17 22:57:15 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: pay to pubkey is only smaller if you consider output+input equally, and only smaller if the input can't use key recovery.
646 2011-12-17 22:58:13 <gmaxwell> The argument against doing key recovery w/ op-eval was IIRC that the input script size didn't really matter that much because of its superprunablity.
647 2011-12-17 22:58:17 <sipa> still, using a pubkey's hash instead of the full key when you have it anyway, seems wasteful to me
648 2011-12-17 22:58:43 <luke-jr> the only reason not to do key recovery, is if it breaks compatibility
649 2011-12-17 22:59:07 <gmaxwell> sipa: it conceals the pubkey, which slows down attacking it. ::shrugs:: I don't know if anyone really cares.
650 2011-12-17 22:59:21 <gmaxwell> It could be done without breaking compatiblity by using it inside op-eval.
651 2011-12-17 22:59:25 <sipa> i know, that is an advantage, but not one we should depend on
652 2011-12-17 22:59:39 <sipa> if ECDSA is broken, bitcoin should be considered broken
653 2011-12-17 22:59:46 <gmaxwell> sipa: not depend on, sure. Not have? ::shrugs::
654 2011-12-17 23:00:31 <gmaxwell> Of course ECDSA probably doesn't go from unbroken to broken over night. I can break RSA512 but it takes me a day (or two, longer if you don't let me use EC2 :) )).
655 2011-12-17 23:00:42 <sipa> haha
656 2011-12-17 23:01:44 <gmaxwell> (well, not just can, I _have_ in two days using about 160 bucks of ec2 time back before they got the cheaper spot pricing, </tangent>)
657 2011-12-17 23:02:15 <gmaxwell> sipa: in any case, really if you care about input script size key recovery is much better than send to pubkey.
658 2011-12-17 23:02:26 <sipa> of course it is
659 2011-12-17 23:03:11 <sipa> but send-to-base58-string-representing-a-full-pubkey is almost trivial to implement right now
660 2011-12-17 23:03:22 <sipa> while rolling out a new script language takes time
661 2011-12-17 23:04:16 <gmaxwell> Rolling out client that can pay to that also takes time. ::shrugs:: and we're going to end up with more fatter never-in-all-history-prunable outputs. ::shrugs:: I'm not impressed.
662 2011-12-17 23:05:35 <sipa> hmm, true, didn't consider that
663 2011-12-17 23:06:04 <gmaxwell> The size difference between normal and send to pubkey isn't all that great either. If all txn became that tomorrow, how much could we expect to save in the — say — year it took to roll out support for op_eval+key_recovery? And of course the vast majority wouldn't be switched even in a year.
664 2011-12-17 23:06:50 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: the goal right now is to ONLY add support for paying to it
665 2011-12-17 23:07:17 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: the receiving end can be done later
666 2011-12-17 23:07:34 <sipa> somehow i still consider pruning a theoretical thing, and all data in the block chain semi-permanent
667 2011-12-17 23:09:25 <sipa> that's far from optimal, but if nodes that prune are not able to function as full nodes anymore (as they can't give a cryptographic proof that a missing input was in fact already redeemed), i don't see it becoming supporting quickly
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671 2011-12-17 23:12:18 <sipa> luke-jr: but if you can't assume your payer's software supports the address format, it's quite useless too
672 2011-12-17 23:12:20 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * rb5c8c6e74991 /src/blockchain/ (6 files in 2 dirs): bdb: Ability to reorganise. http://tinyurl.com/ctycz8o
673 2011-12-17 23:12:50 <sipa> so it's true that rolling out support for send-to-pubkey-addresses takes time as well
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676 2011-12-17 23:25:11 <luke-jr> sipa: that's why we should add it now, so in 2013 we can start using it
677 2011-12-17 23:25:29 <luke-jr> the paying side, not the receiving side
678 2011-12-17 23:25:44 <sipa> the receiving side already exists...
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682 2011-12-17 23:28:45 <luke-jr> sipa: not for compact sigs
683 2011-12-17 23:28:55 <luke-jr> sipa: and not generating addresses
684 2011-12-17 23:29:17 <sipa> oh, you were talking about compact sigs, not pay-to-pubkey?
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686 2011-12-17 23:31:20 <luke-jr> pay-to-pubkey's receving end only needs compact afaik
687 2011-12-17 23:32:40 <sipa> there are three separate possible improvements: compressed pubkeys, compact signature, and key recovery
688 2011-12-17 23:32:46 <sipa> which are you talking about?
689 2011-12-17 23:35:13 <gmaxwell> certantly pay to compressed pubkey doesn't make any sense. It doesn't have any grand theoretical legal improvement, it requires upgraded software to accept and it produces larger transactions than key recovery.
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691 2011-12-17 23:42:12 <luke-jr> sipa: compressed pubkeys I guess
692 2011-12-17 23:42:25 <luke-jr> sipa: and how it relates to pubkey addresses
693 2011-12-17 23:42:43 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: except key recovery is impossible
694 2011-12-17 23:42:55 <luke-jr> unless OP_EVAL enables it
695 2011-12-17 23:43:10 <sipa> it won't, but OP_EVAL2 may ;)
696 2011-12-17 23:43:38 <luke-jr> if it can, why not?
697 2011-12-17 23:43:55 <luke-jr> in any case, pubkey addresses CAN be done
698 2011-12-17 23:44:20 <sipa> luke-jr: compressed pubkeys doesn't require any change at all beyond pull #649
699 2011-12-17 23:45:48 <luke-jr> sipa: great
700 2011-12-17 23:46:09 <luke-jr> sipa: in any case, that's unrelated to SENDING TO them :P
701 2011-12-17 23:46:21 <luke-jr> ie, without a hash
702 2011-12-17 23:46:30 <sipa> right
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704 2011-12-17 23:46:59 <sipa> gmaxwell has a point though, that if we want to roll out something, key recovery is a better bet than send-to-pubkey
705 2011-12-17 23:47:56 <sipa> send-to-pubkey is a lot easier, but leaves us with more legacy that may be superceded
706 2011-12-17 23:48:15 <luke-jr> except we *can't* just roll out key recovery
707 2011-12-17 23:48:28 <gmaxwell> We can, and could have.
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709 2011-12-17 23:49:30 <gmaxwell> It was originally part of the OP_EVAL discussion but got dropped because of 'input script size doesn't matter'. It could be shoved back in. (or has code with op_eval validation actually been released yet)
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711 2011-12-17 23:55:44 <luke-jr> well that's a bogus reason to drop it
712 2011-12-17 23:55:57 <luke-jr> even if it were true, minimizing input script size is OK
713 2011-12-17 23:56:20 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: Eligius is doing OP_EVAL validation, but not rejecting invalid ones yet
714 2011-12-17 23:57:26 <gmaxwell> I've been clued in that my memory was incorrect and that it was mostly dropped in order to get OP_EVAL out quicker.
715 2011-12-17 23:58:22 <gmaxwell> But, in any case, pay to address (or pay to script hash) has the smallest output size. Key recovery has the smallest input size.
716 2011-12-17 23:59:08 <gmaxwell> Pay to pubkey bloats the output size (a lot for the non-compressed case) in exchange for reducing the input script size some. (assuming no recovery)
717 2011-12-17 23:59:43 <sipa> and for the total: send-to-recovered-pubkey-with-hash < send-to-compressed-pubkeys-hash < send-to-pubkey < send-to-pubkeys-hash