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 46 2011-12-23 02:26:47 <genjix> jgarzik: in main.cpp, you should change auto_ptr to unique_ptr
 47 2011-12-23 02:27:05 <genjix> auto_ptr is deprecated. i know the miner is too, but it's a good change to make.
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 56 2011-12-23 03:19:37 <finway> Is there any WPS implemented ?
 57 2011-12-23 03:19:52 <finway> WPS- wallet protection service.
 58 2011-12-23 03:21:43 <phantomcircuit> finway, what would such a service do?
 59 2011-12-23 03:22:09 <finway> Isn't this BIP011/012/013 all about ?
 60 2011-12-23 03:22:23 [7] has quit (Disconnected by services)
 61 2011-12-23 03:22:28 <luke-jr> …
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 63 2011-12-23 03:25:01 <gmaxwell> finway: yes, they can't exist yet because the software for these things hasn't been deployed yet.
 64 2011-12-23 03:25:02 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, do you have any idea what he's talking about?
 65 2011-12-23 03:25:15 <gmaxwell> It'll be six+ months before they are viable.
 66 2011-12-23 03:25:56 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: I do— it's the idea that you could have addresses which require a signature from you and a signature from a WPS (which calls you or whatever, before signing anything for you) in order to make your bitcoin wallet 100% malware proof.
 67 2011-12-23 03:26:10 <finway> oh, i think this will make bitcoin more secure for the dummies
 68 2011-12-23 03:26:37 <gmaxwell> WPS could take the form of services, or gizmos. In any case, we don't yet have all the required software out there.
 69 2011-12-23 03:27:32 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, oh so basically 2 signer transactions
 70 2011-12-23 03:27:47 <phantomcircuit> i seem to remember that being possible with existing but disabled code
 71 2011-12-23 03:27:56 <phantomcircuit> was it decided that OP_EVAL is just cleaner?
 72 2011-12-23 03:28:07 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: not quite.
 73 2011-12-23 03:28:23 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: the problem with the existing (and not disabled, in fact) is that it's the _senders_ choice.
 74 2011-12-23 03:28:42 <gmaxwell> So I'd have to talk everyone I want to send me funds through sending to my special protected account.
 75 2011-12-23 03:28:57 <gmaxwell> If they send to me directly the malware could get it before I bounce it to the special account.
 76 2011-12-23 03:29:30 <gmaxwell> OP_EVAL makes it possible for me to just give you an address, and you don't give a @#$@#$@ about what my protection/escrow/whatever situation is.. You just pay the address I gave you.
 77 2011-12-23 03:30:00 <finway> I've got the OP_EVAL making receiver to decide how to respend idea.
 78 2011-12-23 03:31:52 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, ah
 79 2011-12-23 03:31:55 <phantomcircuit> that's sensible
 80 2011-12-23 03:31:56 <phantomcircuit> wait
 81 2011-12-23 03:32:06 <phantomcircuit> i just said a community bitcoin decision was sensible
 82 2011-12-23 03:32:09 * phantomcircuit looks in mirror
 83 2011-12-23 03:32:09 <gmaxwell> hah
 84 2011-12-23 03:32:26 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: a stopped clock is right twice a day.
 85 2011-12-23 03:32:30 <gmaxwell> :)
 86 2011-12-23 03:34:24 <finway> Can't wait to see services pop up when this BIP0011/12/13 was implemented.
 87 2011-12-23 03:35:46 <lfm> so the receiver can decide how to evealuate it? What if the receiver decides it should just goto the first personb to ask for it with a smile
 88 2011-12-23 03:36:29 <gmaxwell> lfm: then thats his call, he made up the address.
 89 2011-12-23 03:36:53 <gmaxwell> Just like you could post a private key on IRC/forums and later ask people to pay you at the matching address.
 90 2011-12-23 03:37:11 <lfm> so how does the wps enforce their role?
 91 2011-12-23 03:38:17 <gmaxwell> The reciever's chosen criteria has to be in-advance— the hash of it is their address.
 92 2011-12-23 03:38:51 <gmaxwell> so they'd write into that criteria that releasing the funds requires signatures from both them and the wps.
 93 2011-12-23 03:40:33 <gmaxwell> there will need to be some yet unspecified interface so that your local wallet can contact the WPS and say 'hey, sign this for me'. Then the wps would look up the relevant details, make phone calls, whatever.
 94 2011-12-23 03:40:44 <gmaxwell> ask you for your moms maden name, etc.
 95 2011-12-23 03:41:45 <lfm> weak
 96 2011-12-23 03:42:31 <gmaxwell> Why is this weak?
 97 2011-12-23 03:42:42 <finway> How to deal with the keys lost ricks
 98 2011-12-23 03:43:14 <gmaxwell> I mean, whatever the WPS does is between you and the WPS. I personally wouldn't use a WPS... but I might use a personal-wps.. e.g. a dumb wps app on an old smartphone.
 99 2011-12-23 03:43:25 <lfm> just maiden name is weak cuz it is a mtter of public recods
100 2011-12-23 03:43:35 <gmaxwell> yea, I was being silly because people are stupid. :)
101 2011-12-23 03:43:39 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: hey, would there be any significant overhead to using OP_EVAL addresses even for simple transfers?
102 2011-12-23 03:45:16 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: no, it's cheap. I ... think it ends up costing about ~1 byte more than doing it the other way.
103 2011-12-23 03:46:05 <finway> BIP13 status is Draft, will not implemented in 0.6 ?
104 2011-12-23 03:46:56 <luke-jr> ironically, BIP14 status is Accepted, and 0.6 will (at the current rate) violate it
105 2011-12-23 03:47:22 <BlueMatt> funny luke
106 2011-12-23 03:47:43 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I disagree on it being so funny.
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109 2011-12-23 03:53:32 <finway> luke-jr: "Implement BIP 14 (separate protocol from client version)"  I think garvin merged it ?
110 2011-12-23 03:54:07 <luke-jr> finway: that one violates the spec
111 2011-12-23 03:54:26 <luke-jr> finway: it sends "bitcoin-qt" for bitcoind
112 2011-12-23 03:54:44 <BlueMatt> finway: luke interprets the spec differently from pretty much everyone and thus claims bitcoin violates the spec
113 2011-12-23 03:55:12 <BlueMatt> (I dont think anyone agrees with him)
114 2011-12-23 03:55:27 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it's only obvious
115 2011-12-23 03:55:43 <BlueMatt> ok
116 2011-12-23 03:55:54 <luke-jr> when the sole purpose is for statistics, providing a value that ruins any statistical value is violation
117 2011-12-23 03:56:05 <BlueMatt> ok
118 2011-12-23 03:56:32 <BlueMatt> If the sole purpose is statistics, I would argue it should be reverted from accepted to rejected
119 2011-12-23 03:57:00 <luke-jr> why?
120 2011-12-23 03:57:15 <luke-jr> it was accepted
121 2011-12-23 03:57:24 <BlueMatt> meh, so what?
122 2011-12-23 03:57:49 <luke-jr> it was accepted with the specification that the user agent field was only useful for statistics
123 2011-12-23 03:58:04 <luke-jr> "User agent: simple informational tool. Protocol should not be modified depending on user agent."
124 2011-12-23 03:58:34 <BlueMatt> meh, if the spec sucks, why do we have to implement it?
125 2011-12-23 03:58:40 <luke-jr> the spec doesn't suck
126 2011-12-23 03:58:46 <luke-jr> the violation in bitcoind does.
127 2011-12-23 03:58:48 <BlueMatt> yea it does
128 2011-12-23 03:59:13 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: if you think so, you should have said why when it was being discussed and drafted, not after everyone agreed on it
129 2011-12-23 03:59:28 <BlueMatt> meh, I didnt have time to read it when people were discussing it
130 2011-12-23 04:00:20 <gmaxwell> as has been pointed out to you, almost no one agrees with your interpertation of the text.
131 2011-12-23 04:00:35 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: there's no other reasonable interpretation
132 2011-12-23 04:00:41 <gmaxwell> I sure as hell would have loudly rejected something that said you MUST give out details of your local configuration.
133 2011-12-23 04:01:13 <gmaxwell> Nonsense, it never says you must output particular strings.
134 2011-12-23 04:01:47 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I never said you MUST give out details
135 2011-12-23 04:01:59 <luke-jr> I said that if details are given out, they MUST be correct, not leis
136 2011-12-23 04:02:01 <luke-jr> lies*
137 2011-12-23 04:02:07 <gmaxwell> there is no logical end to your interpertation, if you must tell if the user is using the GUI interface vs the rpc one— must you also give their openssl version? (which would have a much greater influence on the network behavior of the software)
138 2011-12-23 04:02:49 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: again, I never said any information was required.
139 2011-12-23 04:02:55 <luke-jr> only that it shouldn't lie.
140 2011-12-23 04:02:56 <gmaxwell> It's not a lie, it outputs what it outputs. No other software outputs that string.
141 2011-12-23 04:03:04 <luke-jr> Bitcoin-Qt does.
142 2011-12-23 04:03:12 <gmaxwell> We're talking about bitcoin-qt.
143 2011-12-23 04:03:22 <gmaxwell> bitcoind is part of bitcoinqt. It's the same program.
144 2011-12-23 04:03:34 <luke-jr> no, it isn't.
145 2011-12-23 04:03:50 <gmaxwell> You are, I believe, the only person with that position.
146 2011-12-23 04:03:59 <BlueMatt> ok, can we give up on this discussion
147 2011-12-23 04:04:03 <BlueMatt> its really not worth having
148 2011-12-23 04:04:17 <finway> BlueMatt: I got it.
149 2011-12-23 04:04:33 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: bitcoind is the same program as Bitcoin-Qt in the same way that bitcoind is the same program as Spesmilo
150 2011-12-23 04:05:13 <BlueMatt> can anyone confirm https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/722 in the release of 0.5.1?
151 2011-12-23 04:05:36 <luke-jr> I recall seeing a commit recently fixing that.
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153 2011-12-23 04:05:59 <gmaxwell> The purpose of the BIP was to seperate the client and protocol version so that non-protocol impacting changes wouldn't bump the protocol and make compatiblity harder for varrious programs.
154 2011-12-23 04:06:13 <gmaxwell> Thats how _I_ and lots of other people understood it.
155 2011-12-23 04:06:56 <gmaxwell> And the way the BIP is written it sounds to me that the developers are free to write whatever they want in those fields including intentionally misleanding information if they like.
156 2011-12-23 04:07:07 <gmaxwell> Though it makes some suggestions about how they should be used.
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161 2011-12-23 04:11:16 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: no, it goes into detail on the content of the User Agent field, specifically to prevent the need of misleading information
162 2011-12-23 04:11:40 <luke-jr> eg, by forbidding its use for "tweaks", and requiring a specific format
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164 2011-12-23 04:12:27 <gmaxwell> I'm not going to argue anymore, I'm going to simply propose changing it.
165 2011-12-23 04:12:39 <gmaxwell> Because I'm fairly confident that no one actually wants the behavior you're describing.
166 2011-12-23 04:12:51 <luke-jr> it's the only useful behaviour
167 2011-12-23 04:13:02 <gmaxwell> also, I'm concerned about your lying here.
168 2011-12-23 04:13:04 <luke-jr> if it's going to be blatently wrong, the field might as well not exist at all
169 2011-12-23 04:13:20 <gmaxwell> I mean really, your above comments are reprehensible considering the actual text.
170 2011-12-23 04:13:23 <luke-jr> no lies from me.
171 2011-12-23 04:13:24 <gmaxwell> For example, "The version numbers are not defined to any strict format"
172 2011-12-23 04:13:41 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I never said they were.
173 2011-12-23 04:13:41 <gmaxwell> How is that at all consistent with what you've been saying here?
174 2011-12-23 04:13:57 <gmaxwell> " and requiring a specific format"
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176 2011-12-23 04:14:19 <luke-jr> /NAME:VERSION(COMMENTS)/[…/]
177 2011-12-23 04:14:21 <luke-jr> that format
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210 2011-12-23 06:37:16 <genjix> wumpus: are you John?
211 2011-12-23 06:37:47 <genjix> john smith
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219 2011-12-23 06:56:12 <lfm> ;;seen wumpus
220 2011-12-23 06:56:13 <gribble> wumpus was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 20 hours, 56 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <wumpus> yeah, do send a pull :)
221 2011-12-23 06:58:59 <genjix> ;;later tell wumpus if you are john smith and made bitcoin-qt, then nice work. i was digging around it earlier and i think it is well written.
222 2011-12-23 06:59:00 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
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227 2011-12-23 07:45:12 <wumpus> genjix: yes I've written that, thanks!
228 2011-12-23 07:45:37 <genjix> wumpus: no worries :)
229 2011-12-23 07:55:24 <wumpus> I've tried to keep it as modular as possible and loosely coupled from the satoshi core, especially in the beginning it wasn't quite sure it would become the official UI
230 2011-12-23 07:56:13 <wumpus> as far as you can speak of 'official' in a decentralized project of course
231 2011-12-23 07:58:29 * cjdelisle is reminded of The Fools - First Annual Official Unofficial April Fools Day Live Bootleg
232 2011-12-23 07:58:54 <wumpus> hehe
233 2011-12-23 07:58:55 <genjix> wumpus: yep i noticed.
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235 2011-12-23 08:00:17 <genjix> it reminds me of when i was travelling in russia. nobody spoke english and everything was chaos. then i crossed the border to estonia and suddenly everyone was speaking english, i had internet and unchaotic.
236 2011-12-23 08:00:56 <genjix> cd qt
237 2011-12-23 08:01:19 <cjdelisle> heh
238 2011-12-23 08:01:40 <genjix> blast of fresh air
239 2011-12-23 08:05:42 <wumpus> efforts are underway to organize the rest too, but it's a slow and careful process
240 2011-12-23 08:06:46 <wumpus> how's libbitcoin doing?
241 2011-12-23 08:07:16 <genjix> my checklist: https://bitcoinconsultancy.com/wiki/index.php?title=Libbitcoin
242 2011-12-23 08:07:33 <genjix> i have to make a memory pool for txs next
243 2011-12-23 08:11:27 <wumpus> so it seems that it is approaching bitcoinj functionality-wise now?  it can connect to the network, exchange messages and send transactions, but not mining and forwarding?
244 2011-12-23 08:12:26 <genjix> it verifies blocks for both bdb and postgres and you can forward txs if you wish
245 2011-12-23 08:12:31 <genjix> but txs arent validated yet
246 2011-12-23 08:16:47 <wumpus> okay, yes that's a really hairy part
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250 2011-12-23 08:17:47 <Diablo-D3> "Great news, Guys! The stock market crisis is over, I just saw a rabbit masturbating to The Economist!"
251 2011-12-23 08:20:05 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
252 2011-12-23 08:23:06 <BlueMatt> why do we let Diablo-D3 talk?
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254 2011-12-23 08:23:40 <wumpus> genjix: when do you expect the API to stablize enough to be able to use it in projects?
255 2011-12-23 08:23:54 <wumpus> btw, why does that wiki page link to https://github.com/neerajdotname/admin_data/ ?
256 2011-12-23 08:24:24 <SomeoneWeird> lmao BlueMatt
257 2011-12-23 08:25:02 <wumpus> BlueMatt: he's the channel-clown
258 2011-12-23 08:25:52 <genjix> wumpus: 3 months
259 2011-12-23 08:26:46 <genjix> and probably first i'll work on supporting the electrum server with it.
260 2011-12-23 08:27:28 <BlueMatt> wumpus: heh, true...
261 2011-12-23 08:27:46 <genjix> wumpus: oh that link is because it's a web viewer for sql, and i have an sql plugin
262 2011-12-23 08:28:01 <genjix> web sql viewer + sql blockchain = instant block explorer
263 2011-12-23 08:28:35 <wumpus> genjix: right, it's good to have a concrete application in mind to test api ideas against
264 2011-12-23 08:29:12 <wumpus> hehe, I somehow expected a link to the libbitcoin repository itself, so was surprised
265 2011-12-23 08:29:23 <Diablo-D3> blueMatt: what, not a fan of fredo and pidjin?
266 2011-12-23 08:31:06 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: ...
267 2011-12-23 08:33:44 <Diablo-D3> what?
268 2011-12-23 08:34:04 Ken` has quit (Quit: leaving)
269 2011-12-23 08:34:16 <BlueMatt> cant say I usually read it
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271 2011-12-23 08:44:02 <Diablo-D3> its one of the rare funny comics
272 2011-12-23 08:44:53 <genjix> what are the bitcoin community hang-outs apart from irc, facebook page, reddit, twitter and the forums?
273 2011-12-23 08:45:07 <Diablo-D3> genjix: you forgot "the internet"
274 2011-12-23 08:45:27 <BlueMatt> why on earth would you want to hang out with the bitcoin community?
275 2011-12-23 08:45:48 <Diablo-D3> beats me, I'd rather hang out with people who actually have money
276 2011-12-23 08:45:51 <Diablo-D3> dohohohohohohoho
277 2011-12-23 08:46:07 <BlueMatt> and sane people...
278 2011-12-23 08:46:33 <Diablo-D3> sane is boring
279 2011-12-23 08:46:43 <BlueMatt> heh, that is true...
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281 2011-12-23 08:56:05 <BitMark> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/722
282 2011-12-23 08:56:14 <wumpus> sanity is overrated
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284 2011-12-23 09:00:51 <BlueMatt> did anyone confirm that on the released binaries yet?
285 2011-12-23 09:01:09 <BlueMatt> ppa or gitian?
286 2011-12-23 09:04:57 <genjix> oh i forgot that developers should not intermingle with the plebs
287 2011-12-23 09:05:43 <BlueMatt> heh, more like if the forums were a reasonable place to get work done, we would still use them as such
288 2011-12-23 09:05:54 <BlueMatt> but, alas, they arent
289 2011-12-23 09:06:00 <genjix> that is true. they are full of nubs
290 2011-12-23 09:06:03 <wumpus> I used to frequent the forums,  but got sick of the bullies and trolls
291 2011-12-23 09:06:28 <genjix> Topic: Bitcoin *needs* to change
292 2011-12-23 09:06:36 <wumpus> hehe
293 2011-12-23 09:06:44 <BlueMatt> nubs arent a problem, no one has problems with nubs, but trolls and bullshit is all over the place on those forums
294 2011-12-23 09:06:45 <genjix> "guys i just discovered bitcoin yesterday. the block time is far too high. it should be 10 seconds"
295 2011-12-23 09:07:37 <wumpus> yeah all the same discussions over and over
296 2011-12-23 09:07:48 <genjix> yeah that gets to me a bit too
297 2011-12-23 09:07:51 <BlueMatt> we have the same discussions over and over on here too...
298 2011-12-23 09:08:12 <genjix> like a broken record singing the same tunes
299 2011-12-23 09:08:15 <wumpus> well it helps it's mostly the same people, so there is some kind of memory
300 2011-12-23 09:08:37 <BlueMatt> heh, true
301 2011-12-23 09:08:42 <wumpus> genjix: exactly
302 2011-12-23 09:11:36 <BlueMatt> did gavin build with the wrong gitian descriptors?
303 2011-12-23 09:13:14 <wumpus> I don't know
304 2011-12-23 09:14:16 <BlueMatt> I dont see how the release got that unless gavin used an out-of-date descriptor...
305 2011-12-23 09:14:30 <BlueMatt> but then, I got the same results IIRC...
306 2011-12-23 09:15:11 <wumpus> but you'd expect so, as it was somehow compiled without USE_SSL
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310 2011-12-23 09:20:32 <wumpus> we all built and signed the windows release but not the linux one
311 2011-12-23 09:20:51 <BlueMatt> I think you are the only one who missed the linux one...
312 2011-12-23 09:21:02 <BlueMatt> (I think only me you and gavin built any of them)
313 2011-12-23 09:22:34 <wumpus> ok.. so if two people built it they both used the wrong gitian descriptor, or something else is wrong
314 2011-12-23 09:23:07 <BlueMatt> no, the hash on the gitian descriptors that were signed were the current ones...
315 2011-12-23 09:25:22 <wumpus> anyway, I've reproduced it too, but the gitian descriptors define USE_SSL everywhere, so I'm spooked
316 2011-12-23 09:26:12 <BlueMatt> same, Im running it to check the logs, but seriously wtf?
317 2011-12-23 09:31:02 <sipa> genjix: re communities: stackexchange
318 2011-12-23 09:31:56 <genjix> ah yes, thanks.
319 2011-12-23 09:32:32 AStove has joined
320 2011-12-23 09:32:56 <wumpus> ah yes the stack exchange is pretty nice
321 2011-12-23 09:35:11 * BlueMatt never uses the stack exchange because every time he goes there to read questions to answer them they have already been answered by sipa or wumpus...
322 2011-12-23 09:35:21 abragin has joined
323 2011-12-23 09:35:41 <genjix> they're camping the stack exchange
324 2011-12-23 09:35:49 <BlueMatt> damn campers
325 2011-12-23 09:37:33 <SomeoneWeird> lol
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343 2011-12-23 10:30:02 <BlueMatt> wumpus: BitMark https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/723
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350 2011-12-23 10:53:00 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Wladimir J. van der Laan master * r96b1e08 / (13 files in 7 dirs): Merge pull request #629 from sje397/master ... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/96b1e085c345f9d89288e1c7dfb37fcdbc09c083
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357 2011-12-23 11:23:33 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Wladimir J. van der Laan master * rc75abc9 / (3 files): Comments update - http://git.io/duL7FA https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/c75abc9f7e84dd16c9f748802fd82ab2c49ec558
358 2011-12-23 11:23:33 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Wladimir J. van der Laan master * re073457 / (5 files): Move HtmlEscape (escape for qt rich text controls) to qt gui utilities - http://git.io/QpTt7A https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/e0734571912736356839fde75fd10993b0df81d5
359 2011-12-23 11:23:34 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Wladimir J. van der Laan master * rc4a4a4b / (src/qt/addressbookpage.cpp src/qt/addressbookpage.h): Add context menu for address book page (implements part 1 of issue #648) - http://git.io/fF81pQ https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/c4a4a4b886b3bd8933cf96c0d66d647a2b32a68b
360 2011-12-23 11:23:34 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Wladimir J. van der Laan master * rc58e7d4 / (4 files): Copy amount to clipboard (implements #657) ... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/c58e7d4e013f21e38fb1501d896d32e8407a9c3c
361 2011-12-23 11:23:34 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Wladimir J. van der Laan master * r3a6ede1 / (11 files): Merge pull request #683 from laanwj/ui_copy_amount ... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/3a6ede13f8ee2dd5084af87f2ef34adb1451bca6
362 2011-12-23 11:25:58 ovidiusoft has joined
363 2011-12-23 11:28:02 FellowTraveler has joined
364 2011-12-23 11:28:05 <FellowTraveler> hi all.
365 2011-12-23 11:33:40 <wumpus> hey
366 2011-12-23 11:38:52 <FellowTraveler> FYI for anyone who's planning to use OT, there is a channel  #opentransactions and you can get support there
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371 2011-12-23 11:53:38 <MC1984> stop pimping your fucking pretty yellow metal website
372 2011-12-23 11:54:47 <FellowTraveler> No one can hear you, they're all on my channel now.
373 2011-12-23 11:56:01 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Wladimir J. van der Laan master * r5ad2ca0 / contrib/gitian-descriptors/gitian.yml : Merge pull request #723 from TheBlueMatt/gitianfix ... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/5ad2ca011eaee4f07c71458bb475224608132b25
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414 2011-12-23 14:32:34 <CIA-100> bitcoin: mtve broken * r0ead1dcc01fb bitcoin-pl/ (ecdsa.pm test/ecdsa): compressed ec point for http://blockexplorer.com/t/6doQ7eyoAc http://tinyurl.com/7j8tf9h
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424 2011-12-23 15:12:45 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr 0.5.x * r961cf14ab3e0 bitcoind-stable/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch '0.5.0.x' into 0.5.x http://tinyurl.com/6q6x5vu
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427 2011-12-23 15:22:37 <CIA-100> bitcoin: various signmessage_gui * r65f7a8..bde280 bitcoind-personal/ (79 files in 8 dirs): (12 commits) http://tinyurl.com/3py2g44
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430 2011-12-23 15:32:26 <luke-jr> wumpus: ^ rebased
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434 2011-12-23 15:47:50 <BitMark> BlueMatt: thanks
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454 2011-12-23 16:41:30 <blacken> Does anyone have any ideas on hosting BTC-related services in a way that would be safe from takedown or seizure by authorities?
455 2011-12-23 16:42:04 aBraGin25 has left ()
456 2011-12-23 16:42:22 <rjk2> blacken: no one here is going to help you evade the law
457 2011-12-23 16:42:25 <rjk2> you are on your own
458 2011-12-23 16:42:34 <blacken> (This question is about availability of the service and protecting trust, not about offering anything that would be considered shady.)
459 2011-12-23 16:43:04 <blacken> rjk2, not asking for help in evading the law (see above)
460 2011-12-23 16:43:27 <EvanR> blacken: actually ill help you evade the law
461 2011-12-23 16:43:38 <rjk2> well then, why would the authorities be interested in you then?
462 2011-12-23 16:43:40 <EvanR> since the law sucks
463 2011-12-23 16:43:44 <blacken> EvanR "ill"?
464 2011-12-23 16:43:53 <EvanR> lol
465 2011-12-23 16:43:55 <blacken> EvanR, haha, I get it, thanks
466 2011-12-23 16:44:15 <blacken> rjk2, one word "bitcoin"
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468 2011-12-23 16:44:28 <rjk2> bitcoin is not anonymous, and not illegal
469 2011-12-23 16:44:51 <gjs278> I love lawbreaking
470 2011-12-23 16:44:52 <SomeoneWeird> ^^
471 2011-12-23 16:45:00 <blacken> rjk2, I know it's not anonymous, as far as whether it's illegal, you are not law enforcement or a judge (though I wish you were)
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473 2011-12-23 16:45:10 <gjs278> bitcoin is anonymous enough
474 2011-12-23 16:45:12 <blacken> so anyone?
475 2011-12-23 16:45:18 <rjk2> gjs278: nope it isnt
476 2011-12-23 16:45:20 <gjs278> yes it is
477 2011-12-23 16:45:22 <EvanR> why would the existence of bitcoin be illegal
478 2011-12-23 16:45:26 <rjk2> not on its own
479 2011-12-23 16:45:58 <blacken> (but offering BTC related services ~might~ be in ~some~ jurisdictions...)
480 2011-12-23 16:46:07 <blacken> So now that we have that settled... cough cough
481 2011-12-23 16:46:18 <blacken> I'd be grateful for someone's thoughts...
482 2011-12-23 16:46:31 <rjk2> blacken: there are any number of offshore hosting services that are shady, but you will need to do your own digging around and research
483 2011-12-23 16:46:33 <SomeoneWeird> you need to give more info if you want informed help, just saying
484 2011-12-23 16:46:43 <gjs278> what illegal things do you want to do
485 2011-12-23 16:46:45 <gjs278> gambling
486 2011-12-23 16:46:52 <gjs278> phishing
487 2011-12-23 16:46:55 <blacken> no gambling
488 2011-12-23 16:46:59 <blacken> just transactions
489 2011-12-23 16:47:14 <blacken> really nothing most of us would find illegal
490 2011-12-23 16:47:26 <gavinandresen> blacken: Locate yourself in a jurisdiction that is likely to be bitcoin-friendly.  Or do the really hard work of keeping yourself anonymous.  But if you're anonymous you'll have trouble establishing trust/reputation.....
491 2011-12-23 16:47:58 <blacken> gavinandresen, thanks for the serious answer (nice to be taken seriously)  that's exactly my question in most of its dimensions
492 2011-12-23 16:48:38 <blacken> which jurisdictions are considered BTC friendly?
493 2011-12-23 16:48:46 <gavinandresen> There's no easy answer.  Although if you can arrange your service so it doesn't require trust (never holds users' bitcoins, for example) then it will be much easier
494 2011-12-23 16:49:07 <blacken> What's the best way of keeping anonymous (to evade problems and maintain availability of the service)?
495 2011-12-23 16:49:28 <gjs278> not tell anyone who you are
496 2011-12-23 16:49:32 <gavinandresen> blacken:  really hard to say-- my best guess is jurisdictions with good banking privacy laws/reputations are likely to be more bitcoin-friendly, but I'm not an expert.
497 2011-12-23 16:50:05 <blacken> anyone know how to go about finding this info?
498 2011-12-23 16:50:31 <gavinandresen> Tor and I2P are all about being anonymous.
499 2011-12-23 16:50:43 <luke-jr> blacken: I'm unaware of any reason Bitcoins would be illegal in the US.
500 2011-12-23 16:50:43 <blacken> yes, I've thought about that too
501 2011-12-23 16:50:45 <blacken> good ideas
502 2011-12-23 16:51:18 <gavinandresen> And see https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Anonymity   for the bitcoin-related issues
503 2011-12-23 16:51:22 <blacken> luke-jr, I know, I know, but you and I are not in law enforcement or a judge of a high court (though I wish you were)
504 2011-12-23 16:51:40 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: (different topic) so, in short, that forceresend patch doesn't work? :|
505 2011-12-23 16:51:55 <blacken> also, taking this a step further
506 2011-12-23 16:52:05 <luke-jr> blacken: perhaps, but there's no defense against uber-paranoia
507 2011-12-23 16:52:13 <blacken> say we're established safely and anonymously
508 2011-12-23 16:52:40 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: I bet it doesn't-- I was starting to tweak it myself then decided I was spending too much time fixing it
509 2011-12-23 16:52:49 <blacken> who in the BTC community would be willing to act as "trust broker" for a good cause?
510 2011-12-23 16:52:53 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: that's a shame
511 2011-12-23 16:53:04 <mcorlett> blacken: See #bitcoin-escrow
512 2011-12-23 16:53:05 <SomeoneWeird> not alot blacken
513 2011-12-23 16:53:14 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: feel free to fix/test, shouldn't be more than an hour or so of work....
514 2011-12-23 16:53:15 * luke-jr moves it from "needs review" to "needs writing"
515 2011-12-23 16:53:29 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: I don't really understand the resend logic, unfortunately :<
516 2011-12-23 16:53:29 <blacken> SomeoneWeird, "not alot" what?
517 2011-12-23 16:53:38 <gavinandresen> (hard part is testing, creating transactions that don't confirm immediately....)
518 2011-12-23 16:53:42 <SomeoneWeird> of people, blacken
519 2011-12-23 16:53:54 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: and I have enough branches ready for merging, that I'd prefer to see in before I spend any more time
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521 2011-12-23 16:54:03 <blacken> SomeoneWeird, no idea how many, but I'll start with one good person
522 2011-12-23 16:54:09 <blacken> any ideas where too start?
523 2011-12-23 16:54:16 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: well, with force_send, that's easy
524 2011-12-23 17:12:46 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr blknotify * rda5f0902e815 bitcoind-personal/src/ (init.cpp main.cpp): Execute a command when best block changes (-blocknotify=<cmd>) http://tinyurl.com/82kawxx
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533 2011-12-23 17:47:33 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr maintree * r464ad795f844 gentoo/net-p2p/ (8 files in 3 dirs): Clean out some older versions http://tinyurl.com/c2pst35
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535 2011-12-23 17:57:41 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr maintree * re04f84fa0a41 gentoo/net-p2p/ (9 files in 4 dirs): Update files dirs http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/w/gentoo_ebuild.git/commitdiff/e04f84fa0a41f1f4d5cafc0d9da7aa0daf101349
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547 2011-12-23 18:47:33 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr maintree * r6e423700a335 gentoo/net-p2p/bitcoind/ (Manifest bitcoind-0.5.1.ebuild): Merge branch 'master' into maintree http://tinyurl.com/6samqok
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553 2011-12-23 19:20:11 <gavinandresen> Anybody have time for a quick code review?  https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/726
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555 2011-12-23 19:28:44 <nanotube> gavinandresen: wait, am i understanding correctly, that some settings (such as proxy) are stored /in the wallet.dat/ ?
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557 2011-12-23 19:30:15 <nanotube> if so... that seems weird, isn't that what the .conf is for?
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560 2011-12-23 19:36:13 <sipa> nanotube: all settings that are configurable from within the application are stored in wallet.dat
561 2011-12-23 19:37:01 <rjk2> 0o
562 2011-12-23 19:37:12 <gavinandresen> moving them to bitcoin.conf is probably a good idea, although people might be surprised if their bitcoin.conf changed if they poked a button in the GUI....
563 2011-12-23 19:37:49 <gavinandresen> .... and rewriting a file that the user might have carefully hand-crafted makes me nervous....
564 2011-12-23 19:38:10 <gavinandresen> Anyway, that's a bigger change than I'm going to tackle today.
565 2011-12-23 19:39:16 <rjk2> what i would do is move them to another file that does not yet exist, and allow the bitcoin.conf to contain settings that override those stored in the alternate file
566 2011-12-23 19:40:13 <nanotube> well, just because people would be surprised, doesn't mean they should be
567 2011-12-23 19:40:28 <nanotube> if you look at most programs with .conf files
568 2011-12-23 19:40:41 <nanotube> they are modifiable both by hand and by gui if such exists
569 2011-12-23 19:41:00 <rjk2> yea
570 2011-12-23 19:41:34 <nanotube> if you carefully hand craft the conf, then go around changing settings via gui, in what world would you expect the gui changes not to be reflected in your conf file? :P
571 2011-12-23 19:42:02 <nanotube> yes, not saying it's necessarily the thing to do right now, to change this, but certainly it seems that the separation of client config from wallet would be a desirable goal
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580 2011-12-23 20:09:07 <gavinandresen> nanotube:  could you update the list of hardcoded seed nodes again sometime in the next couple of weeks?
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584 2011-12-23 20:10:14 <CaptainDDL> Does anyone know how to take a PGP key-id and get a certificate - or encrypt a message with the key-id? or is that a one way hash? :x
585 2011-12-23 20:11:07 <cjdelisle> yea the id is just a hash
586 2011-12-23 20:11:18 <cjdelisle> but you can ask a keyserver for the key with that id
587 2011-12-23 20:11:57 <makomk> Errm... is it just me or does the "Skip ECDSA signature verification when connecting blocks (fBlock=true) during initial download (before the last blockchain checkpoint)." not actually do what it says it does?
588 2011-12-23 20:12:34 <gavinandresen> Just you.  I hope.
589 2011-12-23 20:12:43 <makomk> It actually appears to skip signature verification during the initial block download whether or not it's before the last blockchain checkpoint.
590 2011-12-23 20:13:03 <nanotube> gavinandresen: sure can do.
591 2011-12-23 20:14:49 <makomk> The actual criteria seems to be that it must be before the last checkpoint *or* it must have a timestamp more than 24 hours in the past and the previous block must have been received more than 10 seconds ago.
592 2011-12-23 20:15:02 <makomk> Less than 10 seconds ago, even.
593 2011-12-23 20:15:31 <gavinandresen> makomk: yup, you're right.  Comment should be fixed.
594 2011-12-23 20:15:37 erska has joined
595 2011-12-23 20:23:40 <makomk> gavinandresen: hmmmm. Could a 51% attacker exploit this to spend someone else's coins? Say by setting the timestamps on all their attack blocks to the time at the start of the attack and running it for over 24 hours before releasing them?
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601 2011-12-23 20:27:35 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr maintree * rb47d8a07f4c1 gentoo/net-p2p/ (18 files in 4 dirs): Remove unmaintained versions http://tinyurl.com/c86neub
602 2011-12-23 20:27:37 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Anthony G. Basile maintree * rcf1599fd6c03 gentoo/net-p2p/ (9 files in 2 dirs): Import to Gentoo portage tree http://tinyurl.com/cfg6u6j
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607 2011-12-23 20:42:44 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * rf4d657ee7f1f cgminer/adl.c: Only adjust gpu engine speed in autotune mode if the gpu is currently at the performance level of that being adjusted. http://tinyurl.com/83fmpo7
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614 2011-12-23 21:03:59 <gavinandresen> makomk: (was afk)   I don't see how that could work.... are you imagining an attacker that has also managed to isolate a node so it is ONLY getting the attacker's version of the block chain?
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617 2011-12-23 21:12:43 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r400cb21d8baa cgminer/adl.c: Off by one error in performance level. http://tinyurl.com/cgd89ht
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623 2011-12-23 21:37:08 <devrandom> gavinandresen: I was not able to reproduce non-determinism in qt-win32 gitian build
624 2011-12-23 21:39:15 <gavinandresen> devrandom: did you try two builds more than 24 hours apart?
625 2011-12-23 21:41:53 <makomk> gavinandresen: that'd be the other way, but I'm imagining them building up a 51+% attack with fiddled timestamps over the course of 24+ hours, convincing nodes to move to their longer chain, then sending *another* block less than 10 seconds later that spent coins they didn't own.
626 2011-12-23 21:43:13 <gavinandresen> ... but that won't work because you can't manipulate timestamps that much
627 2011-12-23 21:43:39 <gavinandresen> You need a top-of-chain with a timestamp more than 24 hours old.
628 2011-12-23 21:43:47 <makomk> Why?
629 2011-12-23 21:44:16 <gavinandresen> Why do you need a top-of-chain with a timestamp more than 24 hours old?  Because  pindexBest->GetBlockTime() < GetTime() - 24 * 60 * 60
630 2011-12-23 21:44:43 <makomk> You can't go *backwards* in time compared to previous blocks in that version of the chain, but you don't have to.
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632 2011-12-23 21:45:16 <makomk> Just freeze the timestamps at the start of the attack. Makes it quite expensive.
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634 2011-12-23 21:50:41 <makomk> So if I had enough power I could start building my version of the block chain in secret now, set the timestamp on each block to 1 more than its parent, then at whatever point 24+ hours later I got ahead by enough blocks I could build one final block spending Mt Gox's reserves, release the previous blocks in my attack, and because they're all old it should trigger that code and make nodes then accept the final one.
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638 2011-12-23 21:53:06 <gavinandresen> makomk: I think you're right, I think that would work.
639 2011-12-23 21:53:49 <gavinandresen> makomk: IsInitialBlockDownload should be more conservative...
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642 2011-12-23 21:54:47 <gavinandresen> makomk: ... although worrying about 51% attacks isn't high on my priority list
643 2011-12-23 21:54:58 <gavinandresen> (since we know we're vulnerable anyway)
644 2011-12-23 21:57:06 <makomk> True, I guess.
645 2011-12-23 21:57:25 <gavinandresen> makomk: "discouraging" blocks announced-out-of-the-blue that have out-of-bounds block times is, I think, a good idea.
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647 2011-12-23 21:57:46 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * re75c8ec8de20 cgminer/main.c: Fix for non-adl configuration files. http://tinyurl.com/85f53em
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651 2011-12-23 21:59:22 <makomk> gavinandresen: Probably. Don't think it'd protect against this attack though. (On the other hand, the SolidCoin devs would quite like a non-hacky way of doing that ;-) )
652 2011-12-23 21:59:43 <gavinandresen> well that's a good reason not to do it, then....
653 2011-12-23 22:00:36 <makomk> Heh.
654 2011-12-23 22:00:54 <Rabbit67890> LOL ShitCoin
655 2011-12-23 22:01:30 <Rabbit67890> He solves attackers with DDOS. His idiotic ways of doing things is that bad.
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662 2011-12-23 22:16:54 <devrandom> gavinandresen: yes, three days apart
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667 2011-12-23 22:19:25 <gavinandresen> devrandom: if I recall correctly, the problem was building the ... qt? ... input
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669 2011-12-23 22:23:33 <devrandom> gavinandresen: yes, I'm building the qt-win32-4.7.4-gitian.zip input
670 2011-12-23 22:26:13 <gavinandresen> devrandom: I'm about to quit for today, or I'd see what I get-- did you fix something, or can you just not reproduce the problem at all?
671 2011-12-23 22:30:31 <devrandom> gavinandresen: I can't reproduce, no changes made
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675 2011-12-23 22:37:42 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r78c89dc7ba34 cgminer/main.c: Move longpoll with changes to current active pool, selecting most suitable ... http://tinyurl.com/ctdud6y
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680 2011-12-23 22:47:40 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r9d36ee9b4003 cgminer/main.c: Do not add blank lines when there are less cpu threads enabled than processors. http://tinyurl.com/d74hrt7
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703 2011-12-23 23:41:29 <BlueMatt> wumpus: wait, whats the point of the qrencode stuff if it only shows stuff in your address book (ie addresses which arent yours)?
704 2011-12-23 23:42:19 <BlueMatt> ;;seen wumpus
705 2011-12-23 23:42:20 <gribble> wumpus was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 12 hours, 8 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <wumpus> hey
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707 2011-12-23 23:46:59 <BlueMatt> nvm
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710 2011-12-23 23:52:40 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Kano * rd80e0ef4cef1 cgminer/main.c: Cleanup API thread if it exits early http://tinyurl.com/7z3frke
711 2011-12-23 23:52:42 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r19d5a1976100 cgminer/main.c: Merge pull request #62 from kanoi/master http://tinyurl.com/7a5p37f
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