1 2012-01-07 00:00:08 comboy has joined
2 2012-01-07 00:01:12 <GMP> multimap for tx<->tx, and multimap for address<->tx, local blockexplorer functionality
3 2012-01-07 00:03:26 <cjdelisle> neat
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9 2012-01-07 00:08:11 <GMP> im using memory mapping for concurent access, and i found some strange performance cliff which happened recently, on 32bit, when i updated blk0001.dat from 750MB to current 870MB. full index build time was 45 sec, now 150
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11 2012-01-07 00:09:08 <vsrinivas> the access pattern was exactly the same?
12 2012-01-07 00:09:14 <GMP> yes
13 2012-01-07 00:09:25 <vsrinivas> on Linux?
14 2012-01-07 00:09:38 <GMP> windows
15 2012-01-07 00:09:48 <BlueMatt> well theres your problem
16 2012-01-07 00:09:49 <BlueMatt> ;)
17 2012-01-07 00:09:51 <vsrinivas> oh, hm. windows is a 2g/2g split?
18 2012-01-07 00:09:53 <GMP> :)
19 2012-01-07 00:10:03 <vsrinivas> 800mb mappings are really dicey with that much UVA, i imagine
20 2012-01-07 00:10:17 <GMP> exe built without 3G
21 2012-01-07 00:10:26 <GMP> eun on x64 win
22 2012-01-07 00:11:34 <GMP> the amount of mapped data is about 1370MB
23 2012-01-07 00:11:50 <GMP> i think that might be a problem for windows
24 2012-01-07 00:12:06 <BlueMatt> yep, windows is your problem
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30 2012-01-07 00:20:13 <GMP> it looks like memory mapping is broken in windows, task manager shows changing numbers for Working Set(memory), in 990-1200MB range, while actual mapped data should steady grow to 1370
31 2012-01-07 00:20:45 <vsrinivas> does working set display the sum of mapped size? or mapped and active size?
32 2012-01-07 00:20:48 <GMP> cant cache that much i guess
33 2012-01-07 00:20:49 <vsrinivas> (VSZ vs RSS)
34 2012-01-07 00:21:28 <vsrinivas> one possible reason for the performance cliff is that you may have crossed a threshold where parts of the blockchain index are not in physical mem despite being mapped.
35 2012-01-07 00:21:30 <GMP> it supposed to show mapped size
36 2012-01-07 00:21:47 <vsrinivas> see if you can whatever-the-equivalent-of-mlock()-is the index?
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38 2012-01-07 00:21:57 <vsrinivas> if that removes the cliff....
39 2012-01-07 00:23:52 <BlueMatt> VirtualLock
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41 2012-01-07 00:24:04 <GMP> thx, ill check locking
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52 2012-01-07 00:58:47 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gavinandresen opened pull request 748 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/748>
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58 2012-01-07 01:11:09 <GMP> never mind about task manager mem working set changing numbers, i forgot that i actually unmap/map to gradually increase arrays
59 2012-01-07 01:11:45 <GMP> so its just cache i guess
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64 2012-01-07 01:14:19 <JFK911> windoze memory management sure is strange if you are used to unices
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69 2012-01-07 01:21:29 <copumpkin> JFK911: how so?
70 2012-01-07 01:24:19 <BlueMatt> s/unices/unixes/
71 2012-01-07 01:24:22 <BlueMatt> ?
72 2012-01-07 01:26:07 <GMP> i think its possible that windows might do something stupid, like trash pages on UnmapViewOfFile()
73 2012-01-07 01:28:06 toffoo has quit ()
74 2012-01-07 01:28:21 <GMP> or flush
75 2012-01-07 01:29:24 gruez has joined
76 2012-01-07 01:29:39 <gruez> how do i get bitcoin-qt working with visual studio?
77 2012-01-07 01:29:49 <gruez> i need my intelisense to code :(
78 2012-01-07 01:32:31 <BlueMatt> dont think that will work
79 2012-01-07 01:33:10 <JFK911> copumpkin: go free something that lives in the swap file
80 2012-01-07 01:33:12 <JFK911> for instance
81 2012-01-07 01:33:54 <copumpkin> what happens?
82 2012-01-07 01:34:32 <JFK911> it has to page it all back in
83 2012-01-07 01:34:59 <JFK911> since it was paged out, something else wanted the core of course, so room must be made ...
84 2012-01-07 01:35:27 <JFK911> seems other systems are WHATEVER ITS ALL FREE NOW
85 2012-01-07 01:36:39 <JFK911> then in windows i/o cache seems to be more important than memory for applications
86 2012-01-07 01:37:02 <copumpkin> lol
87 2012-01-07 01:37:32 copumpkin is now known as epictroll
88 2012-01-07 01:37:34 <vsrinivas> well, 'memory for applications'.... see there's this concept called the page cache...
89 2012-01-07 01:37:34 <gruez> <@BlueMatt> dont think that will work
90 2012-01-07 01:37:38 epictroll is now known as copumpkin
91 2012-01-07 01:37:46 <gruez> so is there a IDE that has auto completion that i can use?
92 2012-01-07 01:38:03 <JFK911> you can make emacs do it
93 2012-01-07 01:38:46 <BlueMatt> something not on windows -> probably, on windows -> nfc
94 2012-01-07 01:39:03 <JFK911> eclipse runs on the doze
95 2012-01-07 01:39:08 <wumpus> qt creator
96 2012-01-07 01:39:31 <wumpus> which is, conveniently, part of the qt sdk...
97 2012-01-07 01:39:32 <BlueMatt> can I ask why you would want to code on windows?
98 2012-01-07 01:40:02 <gruez> BlueMatt: because it's easy?
99 2012-01-07 01:40:20 <gruez> visual studio: create project -> type in code -> press f5 to debug
100 2012-01-07 01:40:25 * cjdelisle snickers at easy + asking for advice
101 2012-01-07 01:40:25 <gruez> can't get easier than that
102 2012-01-07 01:40:28 <BlueMatt> ???
103 2012-01-07 01:40:38 <gruez> am i missing something?
104 2012-01-07 01:40:56 <BlueMatt> dont think its valid english to have windows and easy in the same sentence...
105 2012-01-07 01:41:17 <gruez> BlueMatt: so you're saying that deving on linux is easier?
106 2012-01-07 01:41:25 <BlueMatt> absolutely
107 2012-01-07 01:42:10 <MC1984> anyone know about ntfs junctions?
108 2012-01-07 01:42:30 <gruez> BlueMatt: in what way?
109 2012-01-07 01:43:13 <BlueMatt> its better supported?
110 2012-01-07 01:44:38 <gruez> that's it?
111 2012-01-07 01:44:48 <BlueMatt> underlying os structure makes more logical sense
112 2012-01-07 01:44:55 <BlueMatt> which makes it 100x easier to debug problems?
113 2012-01-07 01:45:09 <BlueMatt> and is more accessible
114 2012-01-07 01:45:14 <BlueMatt> by a shitton
115 2012-01-07 01:45:20 <gruez> ._.
116 2012-01-07 01:45:20 zooko has joined
117 2012-01-07 01:45:31 <gruez> drives make more sense to me than mounts
118 2012-01-07 01:45:48 <BlueMatt> but much less useful
119 2012-01-07 01:45:50 <gruez> or is it just years of windows use?
120 2012-01-07 01:46:06 <BlueMatt> can you mount a tmpfs as your bitcoin dir?
121 2012-01-07 01:46:17 <BlueMatt> can you mount a tmpfs at all?
122 2012-01-07 01:46:20 <gruez> lolwut
123 2012-01-07 01:46:25 <gruez> whats tmpfs?
124 2012-01-07 01:46:37 <BlueMatt> memory-backed storage
125 2012-01-07 01:46:47 <BlueMatt> ie really, really great for debugging
126 2012-01-07 01:46:50 <BlueMatt> makes things run quick
127 2012-01-07 01:47:36 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: yes, you can mount a "tmpfs" in Windows as your bitcoin dir
128 2012-01-07 01:47:41 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: but it's difficult as heck
129 2012-01-07 01:47:46 <BlueMatt> ok, and thats my point
130 2012-01-07 01:47:59 <luke-jr> probably only way from the CLI is to make a ramdisk then subst it
131 2012-01-07 01:48:07 <luke-jr> but you coudl do it in Windows 98 even
132 2012-01-07 01:48:30 <BlueMatt> its one command in linux, one fairly simple command
133 2012-01-07 01:48:45 <luke-jr> gruez: Windows is designed with the idea that most users just RUN programs, not debug them
134 2012-01-07 01:48:53 <luke-jr> gruez: Linux is designed with the idea that most users ARE programmers
135 2012-01-07 01:49:09 <BlueMatt> not good for end-users but soooo nice for developers
136 2012-01-07 01:49:16 <gruez> lol
137 2012-01-07 01:49:31 <luke-jr> and since most developers use Linux, doing development on Windows gets even harder
138 2012-01-07 01:49:45 <luke-jr> because nobody wants to do dev on Windows
139 2012-01-07 01:49:56 zooko has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
140 2012-01-07 01:50:04 <luke-jr> gruez: Bitcoin-Qt for Windows is 100% developed on Linux
141 2012-01-07 01:50:14 <luke-jr> someone *might* boot Windows to test it, but that's it
142 2012-01-07 01:50:30 <BlueMatt> even the windows builds are made on linux
143 2012-01-07 01:50:34 <luke-jr> ^
144 2012-01-07 01:50:49 <luke-jr> and this isn't just Bitcoin eitherâ¦
145 2012-01-07 01:51:01 <luke-jr> almost every project I've worked on lately that supports Windows, does the builds on Linux
146 2012-01-07 01:51:06 <gruez> wait, why do you need so much debugging facilities?
147 2012-01-07 01:51:21 <cjdelisle> also getting a linux app to run on windows is a whole lot easier than porting an app born in windowsland to run on anything else
148 2012-01-07 01:51:22 <gruez> visual studio: place breakpoints, check all the variables
149 2012-01-07 01:51:29 <gruez> what else could you ask for?
150 2012-01-07 01:51:35 <luke-jr> â¦
151 2012-01-07 01:51:45 Ahimoth_ is now known as Ahimoth
152 2012-01-07 01:51:59 <k9quaint> someone should 51% attack gruez's neural net and rewrite his blockchain
153 2012-01-07 01:52:04 <luke-jr> lol
154 2012-01-07 01:52:08 <gruez> lolwut
155 2012-01-07 01:52:13 <cjdelisle> lol done
156 2012-01-07 01:52:38 <gruez> also, getting things to compile = fffffuuuu
157 2012-01-07 01:52:44 <luke-jr> gruez: on Windows, yes
158 2012-01-07 01:52:46 <BlueMatt> (on windows)
159 2012-01-07 01:53:04 <gruez> luke-jr: what about linux?
160 2012-01-07 01:53:05 <luke-jr> actually, I imagine wumpus's suggestion of Qt Creator should 'just work'
161 2012-01-07 01:53:12 <gruez> i tried to compile pooler's scrypt miner
162 2012-01-07 01:53:12 <cjdelisle> developing on windows is like developing webapps on IE, as long as you're content with it *never* running on anything else, you're fine.
163 2012-01-07 01:53:22 <luke-jr> gruez: what does that have to do with Bitcoin?
164 2012-01-07 01:53:29 <gruez> and i gave up once i couldn't figure out how to install libcurl
165 2012-01-07 01:53:35 <luke-jr> gruez: â¦
166 2012-01-07 01:53:39 <k9quaint> developing on windows is like developing a mobile app on an iPhone
167 2012-01-07 01:53:42 <gruez> something to do with dependencies
168 2012-01-07 01:53:50 <cjdelisle> heh
169 2012-01-07 01:53:57 <luke-jr> gruez: I don't know how you manage to fail to install libcurl
170 2012-01-07 01:54:12 <luke-jr> for me, it's just "emerge curl" voila done
171 2012-01-07 01:54:13 <cjdelisle> apt-get install libcurl
172 2012-01-07 01:54:19 <BlueMatt> oh, yea deps are soooo damn easy on linux
173 2012-01-07 01:54:21 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: *buntu n00b
174 2012-01-07 01:54:22 <gruez> it was on fedora 13, which was apparently the recommended distrio for compling it
175 2012-01-07 01:54:30 <k9quaint> yum install libcurl
176 2012-01-07 01:54:33 <luke-jr> gruez: erm, Fedora is recommended by who?
177 2012-01-07 01:54:36 xenland has joined
178 2012-01-07 01:54:39 <luke-jr> and what k9quaint said
179 2012-01-07 01:54:41 <cjdelisle> luke-jr: debian noob actuelley
180 2012-01-07 01:54:50 <gruez> Basic WIN32 build instructions (on Fedora 13; requires mingw32):
181 2012-01-07 01:54:50 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: Debian switched to aptitude a while ago
182 2012-01-07 01:54:50 <k9quaint> luke-jr: he should use a larger font for what I said
183 2012-01-07 01:55:09 <cjdelisle> apt-get is still included
184 2012-01-07 01:55:18 <cjdelisle> but aptitude is nice for the search function
185 2012-01-07 01:55:24 <luke-jr> gruez: I see that nowhere.
186 2012-01-07 01:55:32 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: aptitude is nice for everything.
187 2012-01-07 01:55:37 <gruez> i got an ipod, so that's the only unix exposure i get
188 2012-01-07 01:55:37 <gruez> :/
189 2012-01-07 01:55:44 <gruez> https://github.com/pooler/cpuminer
190 2012-01-07 01:55:45 <luke-jr> gruez: ipod has nothing to do with unix
191 2012-01-07 01:55:47 <gruez> readme
192 2012-01-07 01:55:52 <gruez> luke-jr: the console does
193 2012-01-07 01:55:54 <gruez> lol
194 2012-01-07 01:55:58 <luke-jr> gruez: again, WTF does that have to do with Bitcoin?
195 2012-01-07 01:56:08 <gruez> developing on linux?
196 2012-01-07 01:56:26 <gruez> although i got bitcoin-qt to compile properly
197 2012-01-07 01:56:38 <gruez> with some minor adjustments to miniupnp
198 2012-01-07 01:56:57 <luke-jr> â¦
199 2012-01-07 01:58:17 * cjdelisle wonders what interesting problems are in store for gruez for being the first person to build w/o gcc
200 2012-01-07 01:58:31 <BlueMatt> cjdelisle: hes not
201 2012-01-07 01:58:35 <BlueMatt> just the first in a loooong time
202 2012-01-07 01:58:41 <cjdelisle> ahh
203 2012-01-07 01:58:45 <k9quaint> as long as it makes him type less, I am in favor
204 2012-01-07 01:58:54 <cjdelisle> lol
205 2012-01-07 01:58:54 <gruez> i was using that qt ide
206 2012-01-07 01:59:07 <BlueMatt> there was a pull request to make stuff work with msvc a couple months ago
207 2012-01-07 01:59:10 <BlueMatt> (like 6 or more)
208 2012-01-07 01:59:58 <gruez> what happened?
209 2012-01-07 02:00:27 <gruez> and i find makefile.vc to be misleading, considering i can't build with it at all
210 2012-01-07 02:00:38 <gruez> a vcproj file would be awesome
211 2012-01-07 02:03:23 zooko has joined
212 2012-01-07 02:04:52 <BlueMatt> patches welcome
213 2012-01-07 02:07:33 <luke-jr> gruez: so long as not a single developer uses Windows, you can expect the status quo. if you want to be that developer who cleans it up and maintains it, feel free.
214 2012-01-07 02:08:22 <gruez> on a related note, how easy is working with qt?
215 2012-01-07 02:08:31 <BlueMatt> pretty easy
216 2012-01-07 02:08:38 <gruez> as easy as windows forms?
217 2012-01-07 02:09:00 <gruez> drag & drop elements
218 2012-01-07 02:09:10 <gruez> double click to create handler functions?
219 2012-01-07 02:09:10 <BlueMatt> never used windows forms, but qtcreator is pretty quick
220 2012-01-07 02:09:40 <gruez> the current ui is simply horrible imo
221 2012-01-07 02:09:42 <GMP> IDA 6 have qt interface btw, along with old one
222 2012-01-07 02:09:47 <GMP> on win
223 2012-01-07 02:10:01 <luke-jr> gruez: you NEED Qt Creator if you want drag and drop :P
224 2012-01-07 02:11:14 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * rbb574d6ce8d8 cgminer/NEWS: Update NEWS. http://tinyurl.com/6nju4v7
225 2012-01-07 02:11:15 <CIA-100> bitcoin: p2k * r50e418c4f945 ecoinpool/apps/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Bugfixes http://tinyurl.com/89trv4c
226 2012-01-07 02:11:15 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * rd3b4a6f307c8 cgminer/configure.ac: Bump version to 2.1.2 http://tinyurl.com/7rydfbe
227 2012-01-07 02:11:16 <CIA-100> bitcoin: p2k * r3dad0782d0e7 ecoinpool/apps/ecoinpool/src/ (btc_coindaemon.erl scrypt_coindaemon.erl): Evil Bugfix http://tinyurl.com/8aawq6s
228 2012-01-07 02:11:17 <CIA-100> bitcoin: p2k * re47d4ec6b074 ecoinpool/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Smaller Bugfix http://tinyurl.com/6lvw99c
229 2012-01-07 02:11:22 <luke-jr> O.O
230 2012-01-07 02:11:44 <gruez> lolwut
231 2012-01-07 02:14:32 magn3ts_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
232 2012-01-07 02:16:01 <gruez> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=56868.0
233 2012-01-07 02:16:08 <gruez> easy 5 btc people
234 2012-01-07 02:17:05 <luke-jr> â¦
235 2012-01-07 02:17:11 <luke-jr> why the *)%&#)% are you using 0.5.1rc2?
236 2012-01-07 02:17:30 <BlueMatt> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/743
237 2012-01-07 02:17:46 <luke-jr> ^
238 2012-01-07 02:18:08 <GMP> first callback in bitcoind API :)
239 2012-01-07 02:18:37 wizkid057 is now known as afk!~wizkid057@c-71-226-219-178.hsd1.nj.comcast.net|wizkid057
240 2012-01-07 02:20:08 <luke-jr> gruez: do I win?
241 2012-01-07 02:20:41 <gruez> lo
242 2012-01-07 02:20:42 <gruez> lol
243 2012-01-07 02:20:46 <gruez> that's not mine
244 2012-01-07 02:20:53 <gruez> it's someone else's
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249 2012-01-07 02:45:39 <gruez> >>Latest version: 0.5.1 *OLD VERSIONS HARM THE NETWORK AND YOUR SECURITY*
250 2012-01-07 02:45:41 <gruez> uh
251 2012-01-07 02:45:48 <gruez> what if i hate the new interface?
252 2012-01-07 02:45:57 <gruez> i like to know how much connections i have
253 2012-01-07 02:46:07 <BlueMatt> 0.4.2
254 2012-01-07 02:46:07 <gruez> without hovering over for 3 seconds
255 2012-01-07 02:46:22 <gruez> where to get?
256 2012-01-07 02:46:32 <BlueMatt> ask luke-jr
257 2012-01-07 02:46:34 <BlueMatt> prob sf
258 2012-01-07 02:47:15 <luke-jr> gruez: if you hate Bitcoin-Qt, then you need to step up to maintain the old wxBitcoin
259 2012-01-07 02:47:32 <gruez> fffffuuuuuuuu
260 2012-01-07 02:47:35 <gruez> :(
261 2012-01-07 02:47:41 <luke-jr> gruez: BlueMatt is about to build 0.4.2 as the first 0.4.x without a GUI client
262 2012-01-07 02:47:44 <luke-jr> :p
263 2012-01-07 02:48:14 <gruez> what's the latest wx version i can get?
264 2012-01-07 02:48:26 <gruez> i'm on 4.0-beta
265 2012-01-07 02:48:30 <luke-jr> 0.4.1
266 2012-01-07 02:48:40 <luke-jr> with known bugs
267 2012-01-07 02:48:41 <BlueMatt> oh, oops I forgot about that
268 2012-01-07 02:48:50 <gruez> luke-jr: any serious ones?
269 2012-01-07 02:49:07 <BlueMatt> there is a very serious performance one
270 2012-01-07 02:49:21 <BlueMatt> doesnt effect security, but...
271 2012-01-07 02:49:32 gfinn has joined
272 2012-01-07 02:49:56 <BlueMatt> and there are probably security ones I dont remember
273 2012-01-07 02:50:04 <gruez> BlueMatt: explain?
274 2012-01-07 02:50:16 <luke-jr> some deadlocks too
275 2012-01-07 02:50:25 <luke-jr> gruez: it's slow and might hang
276 2012-01-07 02:50:35 <gruez> that's all?
277 2012-01-07 02:50:43 <luke-jr> so far
278 2012-01-07 02:50:47 <gruez> honestly, who here actually likes bitcoin-qt?
279 2012-01-07 02:50:52 <luke-jr> everyone?
280 2012-01-07 02:50:57 <gruez> seriously?
281 2012-01-07 02:51:01 <luke-jr> â¦
282 2012-01-07 02:51:02 <vsrinivas> bitcoin-qt is maintained.
283 2012-01-07 02:51:10 <luke-jr> everyone hates wxBitcoin at least
284 2012-01-07 02:51:44 <BlueMatt> no one wanted to maintain the wx client
285 2012-01-07 02:51:52 <BlueMatt> there are several people willing to maintain the qt one
286 2012-01-07 02:52:06 <gruez> my gripes about bitcoin-qt:
287 2012-01-07 02:52:12 <gruez> the overview tab is retarded
288 2012-01-07 02:52:29 <gruez> and i don't want to hover over to see how many connections/blocks i have
289 2012-01-07 02:52:40 <gruez> fix those, and i will love qt
290 2012-01-07 02:52:44 <gmaxwell> bitcoin-qt is easy to build.
291 2012-01-07 02:52:45 <vsrinivas> gruez: there are many valid criticisms of the qt interface; just that there're people willing and able to work on it.
292 2012-01-07 02:52:46 <luke-jr> gruez: you fix them. :p
293 2012-01-07 02:53:00 <vsrinivas> patches and commentary are welcome and will even get some attention.
294 2012-01-07 02:53:00 <gruez> luke-jr: well
295 2012-01-07 02:53:01 <gmaxwell> gruez: you should give it a try... and even if you find you can't at least file issues.
296 2012-01-07 02:53:18 <gruez> gmaxwell: will do
297 2012-01-07 02:53:26 <gruez> is it recommended to dev on windows?
298 2012-01-07 02:53:31 <luke-jr> no
299 2012-01-07 02:53:33 <gruez> it's just for qt
300 2012-01-07 02:53:36 <luke-jr> nobody does itâ¦
301 2012-01-07 02:53:42 <gmaxwell> The percentage things for blocks really does seem to be a bad idea, it creates a lot of irritated confusion.
302 2012-01-07 02:53:52 <gruez> gmaxwell: yep
303 2012-01-07 02:54:05 <gruez> middle of block chain download, shuts down node
304 2012-01-07 02:54:06 <gmaxwell> gruez: do whatever makes you happy you may have more trouble on windows, but we'd probably benefit from having more developers on windows.
305 2012-01-07 02:54:19 <gruez> when it starts back up, it goes back to 0%
306 2012-01-07 02:54:31 <gmaxwell> gruez: err. that.. doesn't sound righ.
307 2012-01-07 02:54:33 <BlueMatt> you can probably build on windows, its not ideal nor supported, but feel free
308 2012-01-07 02:54:33 <gmaxwell> er right.
309 2012-01-07 02:54:34 <gruez> new users are probably going to go "WTF IT DOESN'T SAVE???"
310 2012-01-07 02:54:52 <gmaxwell> does it really show zero at every start? 0_o
311 2012-01-07 02:54:53 <gruez> gmaxwell: due to how it calculates the percentage
312 2012-01-07 02:54:59 <gruez> gmaxwell: yes sir
313 2012-01-07 02:55:06 <gmaxwell> wow, I didn't know that... no wonder people freak out.
314 2012-01-07 02:55:09 <BlueMatt> it is progress since last open
315 2012-01-07 02:55:31 <gruez> BlueMatt: seriously?
316 2012-01-07 02:55:37 <gruez> let me check again
317 2012-01-07 02:55:38 <gmaxwell> In any case, an ETA would probably be better. (along with the absolute count, since we use that all over the bitcoin community)
318 2012-01-07 02:55:46 <BlueMatt> progress since where it was at last close, sorry
319 2012-01-07 02:55:53 <BlueMatt> or last open as in the last time it was opened
320 2012-01-07 02:56:19 <gruez> afaik, it resets to 0% whenever it closes
321 2012-01-07 02:56:24 <BlueMatt> yea
322 2012-01-07 02:56:26 <gruez> as in, shuts down completely
323 2012-01-07 02:56:36 <BlueMatt> as in its progress since the last time you opened it (the most recent one)
324 2012-01-07 02:56:40 <gruez> yeah
325 2012-01-07 02:57:01 <gruez> uh...
326 2012-01-07 02:57:02 <gruez> bitcoin-0.4.1-win32
327 2012-01-07 02:57:13 <gruez> bitcoin-0.4.1rc7-win32
328 2012-01-07 02:57:17 <gruez> what's the difference?
329 2012-01-07 02:57:26 <BlueMatt> one is a release candidate
330 2012-01-07 02:57:29 <BlueMatt> one is the final version
331 2012-01-07 02:57:35 <gruez> which one should i use?
332 2012-01-07 02:58:04 <BlueMatt> the final one?
333 2012-01-07 02:58:07 <gruez> ok
334 2012-01-07 03:02:18 <gruez> which branch should i use?
335 2012-01-07 03:02:25 <gruez> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin
336 2012-01-07 03:02:26 <gruez> ?
337 2012-01-07 03:07:14 <MC1984> qt is fine, just some questionable ui elements
338 2012-01-07 03:07:23 <MC1984> and it never remembers window size or position
339 2012-01-07 03:07:44 <MC1984> but they say never make a programmer into a ui designer
340 2012-01-07 03:07:45 <gruez> MC1984: +1 to that
341 2012-01-07 03:08:04 <MC1984> gmaxwell will you
342 2012-01-07 03:08:19 <gruez> sending/receiving symbol = retarded
343 2012-01-07 03:08:25 <MC1984> your magic download patch be in soon?
344 2012-01-07 03:08:38 wasabi3 has joined
345 2012-01-07 03:08:41 <gruez> rows that are higher than the text it contains = retarded
346 2012-01-07 03:08:46 <BlueMatt> its already in master + 0.5.2
347 2012-01-07 03:08:48 <BlueMatt> MC1984:
348 2012-01-07 03:09:09 <gruez> a export function as a huge button = retarded
349 2012-01-07 03:09:43 <gruez> no menu option to perform basic tasks (rescan, backup) = ???
350 2012-01-07 03:10:02 <MC1984> eta on 052?
351 2012-01-07 03:10:06 <BlueMatt> rescan isnt a basic task
352 2012-01-07 03:10:13 <BlueMatt> in fact, there is no real reason to use rescan
353 2012-01-07 03:10:20 <gruez> BlueMatt: really?
354 2012-01-07 03:10:22 <BlueMatt> (except if your wallet is broken
355 2012-01-07 03:10:23 <BlueMatt> )
356 2012-01-07 03:10:28 <gruez> oh :/
357 2012-01-07 03:10:38 <BlueMatt> like really broken and you removed txes manually
358 2012-01-07 03:10:51 wasabi2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
359 2012-01-07 03:11:20 <gruez> so is there a reason why the block chain download is blazingly fast for the first few thousand blocks
360 2012-01-07 03:11:23 danbri has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
361 2012-01-07 03:11:27 <gruez> and painfully slow for the last ones?
362 2012-01-07 03:11:32 <BlueMatt> there are no txes in those blocks
363 2012-01-07 03:11:46 <gruez> oh, i thought it was due to checkpoints
364 2012-01-07 03:11:58 <gruez> checkpoints = no need to check
365 2012-01-07 03:12:05 <BlueMatt> not true at all
366 2012-01-07 03:12:11 <BlueMatt> checkpoints == an extra check
367 2012-01-07 03:12:33 toffoo has joined
368 2012-01-07 03:13:06 <luke-jr> MC1984: 0.5.2rc1 is ready for Linux + Windows
369 2012-01-07 03:13:13 <luke-jr> no update from gavin on Mac
370 2012-01-07 03:13:13 <gruez> for current block chain downloading, why not request a dump of all known blocks
371 2012-01-07 03:13:24 <gruez> and process them async?
372 2012-01-07 03:13:35 <gruez> instead of
373 2012-01-07 03:13:40 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: before the last checkpoint, clients skip ECDSA checks
374 2012-01-07 03:13:41 <gruez> request -> process -> request
375 2012-01-07 03:13:49 toffoo has quit (Client Quit)
376 2012-01-07 03:13:56 <luke-jr> gruez: wtf?
377 2012-01-07 03:14:00 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: oh, how did I not know that?
378 2012-01-07 03:14:02 <MC1984> nice
379 2012-01-07 03:14:10 <luke-jr> MC1984: Windows @ http://dl.dropbox.com/u/29653426/bitcoin-0.5.2rc1-win32.tar.bz2
380 2012-01-07 03:14:14 toffoo has joined
381 2012-01-07 03:14:20 <BlueMatt> gruez: because blocks have to be downloaded in order
382 2012-01-07 03:14:25 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: gavin did it a couple months ago.
383 2012-01-07 03:14:30 <MC1984> the 14 hour initiation phase is what tuns alot of people away imo
384 2012-01-07 03:14:30 <BlueMatt> well, checked in order
385 2012-01-07 03:14:39 <gruez> BlueMatt: just download ALL the blocks
386 2012-01-07 03:14:40 zooko has joined
387 2012-01-07 03:14:45 <gruez> then check them
388 2012-01-07 03:14:47 <luke-jr> MC1984: try 0.5.2rc1 and tell us how long for oyu
389 2012-01-07 03:14:57 <gmaxwell> MC1984: please ^
390 2012-01-07 03:15:01 <gruez> instead of stop->go->stop->go->stop->go
391 2012-01-07 03:15:11 <MC1984> ok lets do this shit
392 2012-01-07 03:15:19 <k9quaint> gruez: how would you know you downloaded all the blocks?
393 2012-01-07 03:15:38 <gruez> k9quaint: you dont
394 2012-01-07 03:15:41 <MC1984> will this take over my regular profile directory
395 2012-01-07 03:15:44 <gmaxwell> gruez: it can hit 1000 blocks a second when its not loaded down processing things. ::shrugs::
396 2012-01-07 03:15:55 <gruez> just ask how much blocks they have
397 2012-01-07 03:16:02 <k9quaint> since you don't know if you have all the blocks, you can't ever "download them all first" ;)
398 2012-01-07 03:16:11 <gruez> k9quaint: :/
399 2012-01-07 03:16:39 <luke-jr> MC1984: yes
400 2012-01-07 03:16:43 <luke-jr> MC1984: backup & delete blk*.dat
401 2012-01-07 03:17:25 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: FYI, #Eligius's channel troll doesn't trust your builds
402 2012-01-07 03:17:49 <BlueMatt> thats why we use gitian
403 2012-01-07 03:17:54 <BlueMatt> tell him to reproduce my builds
404 2012-01-07 03:17:57 <luke-jr> you expect a troll to understand that?
405 2012-01-07 03:18:08 <gruez> luke-jr: i heard you 51% attacked coil coin
406 2012-01-07 03:18:11 <BlueMatt> I would also ask that others reproduce my builds, not just me, before release...
407 2012-01-07 03:18:22 <luke-jr> gruez: depends on what you mean by 51% attack
408 2012-01-07 03:18:23 <k9quaint> bluematts builds are always twice the size of everyone elses, coincidence? Yep.
409 2012-01-07 03:18:31 <gmaxwell> I think there is actually a modest performance improvement available there. The askdata/get/validate are all serialized.
410 2012-01-07 03:18:46 <BlueMatt> k9quaint: thats why we use gitian, everyone's builds are identical, to the sha256 hash
411 2012-01-07 03:18:54 <gruez> luke-jr: denial-of-blocks-and-transactions attack
412 2012-01-07 03:18:56 <gruez> :p
413 2012-01-07 03:19:04 <k9quaint> BlueMatt: your builds are inexplicably fat
414 2012-01-07 03:19:13 <BlueMatt> ok
415 2012-01-07 03:19:24 <gmaxwell> Fat as in majorly cool? :)
416 2012-01-07 03:19:26 <luke-jr> gruez: I just mined it a lot with a 100 CLC txn fee, and didn't pay attention to others' blocks
417 2012-01-07 03:19:32 <BlueMatt> k9quaint: thats just the "steal your coins and send them to me" code
418 2012-01-07 03:19:33 <gruez> lol
419 2012-01-07 03:19:45 <k9quaint> gmaxwell: fat as in cheetos found within the folds fat ;)
420 2012-01-07 03:19:46 <luke-jr> k9quaint: BlueMatt's Win build has 2 copies of everything at least
421 2012-01-07 03:20:00 <luke-jr> the stuff that gets ZIP'd, and the installer
422 2012-01-07 03:20:10 <k9quaint> luke-jr: it has an extra 50% so he can leap out and attack altcoins ;)
423 2012-01-07 03:20:13 <BlueMatt> (that has been there since 0.3.23 when I stared doing bitcoin release builds...)
424 2012-01-07 03:20:15 <MC1984> i can just run the binary yes
425 2012-01-07 03:20:17 <MC1984> cba to install
426 2012-01-07 03:20:22 <luke-jr> MC1984: sure
427 2012-01-07 03:20:27 <gruez> so how does mailing lists work?
428 2012-01-07 03:20:32 <gruez> is it like a forum?
429 2012-01-07 03:20:39 <luke-jr> MC1984: btw, nobody's actually tested this yet. so you better have made that backup
430 2012-01-07 03:20:49 <luke-jr> gruez: forum with automatic email spam
431 2012-01-07 03:20:55 <gmaxwell> well, they've tested the codeâ but not the windows builds.
432 2012-01-07 03:20:56 <MC1984> yeah all backed up
433 2012-01-07 03:21:11 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: it's ok, better to make him ultra-paranoid for something like this :P
434 2012-01-07 03:21:14 <gruez> luke-jr: any advantages to using it instead of bitcointalk.org?
435 2012-01-07 03:21:15 <MC1984> ok wallet loaded
436 2012-01-07 03:21:23 <luke-jr> gruez: no
437 2012-01-07 03:21:34 <luke-jr> gruez: except that nobody reads bitcointalk.org
438 2012-01-07 03:21:42 <luke-jr> MC1984: block chain download done already?
439 2012-01-07 03:21:47 <MC1984> about 100 bloks a second
440 2012-01-07 03:21:52 <luke-jr> â¦
441 2012-01-07 03:22:05 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: possible it makes no difference on Windows? :o
442 2012-01-07 03:22:08 <gmaxwell> MC1984: any idea what you were seeing before.
443 2012-01-07 03:22:15 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: yea, it's possible!
444 2012-01-07 03:22:16 <MC1984> about the same
445 2012-01-07 03:22:29 <luke-jr> oh well
446 2012-01-07 03:22:37 <luke-jr> Bitcoin becomes the killer feature of Linuxâ¦
447 2012-01-07 03:22:53 <MC1984> goddamit
448 2012-01-07 03:23:00 <k9quaint> not being windows is the killer feature of linux
449 2012-01-07 03:23:07 <gmaxwell> if its 100 blocks a second initially it shouldn't take 14 hours though.
450 2012-01-07 03:23:24 <gmaxwell> at 100 blocks/s initially I'd wagstimate about an hour and change.
451 2012-01-07 03:23:25 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: those are early blocks
452 2012-01-07 03:23:31 <gmaxwell> yes, I know.
453 2012-01-07 03:23:37 zooko has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
454 2012-01-07 03:23:51 <luke-jr> BlueMatt hacked 0.5.2rc1 to connect to CLC instead of Bitcoin, too
455 2012-01-07 03:24:00 <gruez> <luke-jr> gruez: except that nobody reads bitcointalk.org
456 2012-01-07 03:24:02 <gruez> why not?
457 2012-01-07 03:24:04 <gmaxwell> but I get those at like 1000/second, it slows down to 10 eventually or so.
458 2012-01-07 03:24:06 <MC1984> right im gonna try this on my other machine which has an ssd
459 2012-01-07 03:24:23 <luke-jr> gruez: because it's not spammy enough
460 2012-01-07 03:24:25 <gmaxwell> MC1984: some ssds have really slow write.
461 2012-01-07 03:24:55 <k9quaint> he might be sawing his HD in half
462 2012-01-07 03:25:53 <k9quaint> swap + fragment + plus lots of little writes might add up to lots of latency
463 2012-01-07 03:26:09 <gmaxwell> need to fix the write volumen next I think.
464 2012-01-07 03:27:20 <gmaxwell> oh well, it's not just us:
465 2012-01-07 03:27:24 <gmaxwell> "Thanks to telemetry we now know that some users experience tragic startup speeds ranging from 30seconds to 34hours"
466 2012-01-07 03:27:27 <gmaxwell> https://blog.mozilla.com/tglek/2012/01/05/snappy-jan-5/
467 2012-01-07 03:27:58 <k9quaint> they need a superlative for a 34hour startup speed
468 2012-01-07 03:28:03 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I so experience that on Linux
469 2012-01-07 03:28:11 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: when I start Firefox, my system basically freezes for half an hour
470 2012-01-07 03:28:12 <k9quaint> "tragic" doesn't quite get there
471 2012-01-07 03:28:36 <gmaxwell> weird. I run nightly and don't seem to have issues.
472 2012-01-07 03:28:58 <k9quaint> I use chrome, but when I do start firefox, it appears instantly and does my bidding without making any eye contact
473 2012-01-07 03:29:02 <gruez> <gmaxwell> "Thanks to telemetry we now know that some users experience tragic startup speeds ranging from 30seconds to 34hours"
474 2012-01-07 03:29:03 <BlueMatt> you run a nightly browser???
475 2012-01-07 03:29:13 <gruez> on a related note, why does bitcoin-qt take forever to shutdown?
476 2012-01-07 03:29:19 <gruez> it's gone from the taskbar
477 2012-01-07 03:29:23 <MC1984> i thought the main thing with blockchain is the random reads
478 2012-01-07 03:29:26 <gruez> but it's still alive as a process
479 2012-01-07 03:29:28 <MC1984> hence ssd should be really good
480 2012-01-07 03:29:33 <doublec> I run nightly too - how else do you get cool features and fixes fast
481 2012-01-07 03:29:41 <gruez> and it stays there for a good 30 seconds before dissapearing
482 2012-01-07 03:29:44 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: yes. It's been pretty stable for me. Three crashes in the last 9 months or so.
483 2012-01-07 03:29:57 <lianj> MC1984: or do tmpfs
484 2012-01-07 03:29:58 <BlueMatt> ...
485 2012-01-07 03:29:58 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: you call that stable?
486 2012-01-07 03:30:03 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: and when I whine at moz people about features and fixes they'll just tell me to run nightly anyways.
487 2012-01-07 03:30:09 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: have you ever heard of something called security?
488 2012-01-07 03:30:18 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: Firefox? secure? LOL
489 2012-01-07 03:30:18 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: on autocompiled nightly development builds?
490 2012-01-07 03:30:26 <MC1984> ok tryin this again
491 2012-01-07 03:30:31 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: a browser secure? it's not like this computer has bitcoin on itâ
492 2012-01-07 03:30:35 <gmaxwell> or even development stuff.
493 2012-01-07 03:30:41 <BlueMatt> still...
494 2012-01-07 03:30:42 <gmaxwell> my laptop is an xterminal with a browser.
495 2012-01-07 03:30:53 <BlueMatt> still...
496 2012-01-07 03:31:04 <doublec> one could argue non-nightlies are less secure
497 2012-01-07 03:31:17 <doublec> since nightly has the security fixes immediately
498 2012-01-07 03:31:22 <doublec> in some cases
499 2012-01-07 03:31:27 <MC1984> 140700 is that the checkpoint
500 2012-01-07 03:31:29 <luke-jr> doublec: nightly stable branch maybe
501 2012-01-07 03:31:31 <gmaxwell> doublec: well, nightlies could get some code slipped in by someone malicious.. though thats also the case for binaries in general.
502 2012-01-07 03:31:33 TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)
503 2012-01-07 03:31:42 <gmaxwell> MC1984: hah yes, notice it slow down there?
504 2012-01-07 03:31:45 [7] has joined
505 2012-01-07 03:32:06 <MC1984> nope thats just what it says before it has any connections
506 2012-01-07 03:32:16 <gmaxwell> ah okay.
507 2012-01-07 03:32:38 <MC1984> ok
508 2012-01-07 03:32:50 <MC1984> 8 connections, slower than the hdd machine ://////////////////////
509 2012-01-07 03:33:07 <gruez> just wondering, for the devs
510 2012-01-07 03:33:11 <MC1984> what the dickens is going on here
511 2012-01-07 03:33:12 <gmaxwell> MC1984: whats the hdd machine up to now?
512 2012-01-07 03:33:16 <gruez> has the dynamic ip bug been fixed yet?
513 2012-01-07 03:33:27 <gmaxwell> gruez: ... what dynamic ip bug?
514 2012-01-07 03:33:34 <gruez> where if your ip changed, your connections will drop back to 8
515 2012-01-07 03:33:41 <gruez> because your irc nick doesn't update
516 2012-01-07 03:33:41 <MC1984> oh i stopped it
517 2012-01-07 03:34:16 <MC1984> 26 kiloblocks still rolling at 100 a second
518 2012-01-07 03:34:33 <gmaxwell> MC1984: bleh, it would still be useful to have an objective number if you're not in a hurry. if you put logtimestamps=1 in the bitcoin.conf you can pull the time out of the logs when you check later.
519 2012-01-07 03:35:06 <MC1984> can i do that while its running & halfway through download
520 2012-01-07 03:35:17 danbri has joined
521 2012-01-07 03:35:24 <gmaxwell> sadly, no. you'd have to start over.
522 2012-01-07 03:35:30 <k9quaint> at 100 blocks per second, it would take ~1600 seconds to get the whole chain
523 2012-01-07 03:35:32 <MC1984> ok
524 2012-01-07 03:35:44 <gmaxwell> k9quaint: yea, it won't maintain that speed.
525 2012-01-07 03:35:48 <gruez> k9quaint: or half an hour
526 2012-01-07 03:35:48 <gruez> :p
527 2012-01-07 03:36:11 <MC1984> ok where is the conf file
528 2012-01-07 03:36:11 <gmaxwell> k9quaint: here is a whole chain download speed chart (over time, I should probaby do one over block numbers)
529 2012-01-07 03:36:14 <gmaxwell> http://people.xiph.org/~greg/bitcoin-sync-speed.png
530 2012-01-07 03:36:30 <gmaxwell> MC1984: same place the blockchain is. if you don't have one, just create it with notepad
531 2012-01-07 03:36:33 <k9quaint> gmaxwell: are there boobs in the picture?
532 2012-01-07 03:36:41 <gmaxwell> logtimestamps=1
533 2012-01-07 03:36:44 <gmaxwell> k9quaint: ... no.
534 2012-01-07 03:37:19 <gruez> <gmaxwell> gruez: ... what dynamic ip bug?
535 2012-01-07 03:37:20 <k9quaint> nice, your stupid graph ate my chrome browser :(
536 2012-01-07 03:37:23 <gruez> your ip changes, but the your nickname (and therefore the ip that people tries to connect to) doesn't update. so your connections goes down to 8
537 2012-01-07 03:37:38 <gmaxwell> k9quaint: your chrome can't handle a boring png?
538 2012-01-07 03:37:40 <BlueMatt> fix: disable irc completely
539 2012-01-07 03:37:53 <gruez> then how would i get more connections?
540 2012-01-07 03:38:01 <gmaxwell> gruez: I suspect that you're actually mistaken about the behaivor there. IRC isn't needed to have connections at all.
541 2012-01-07 03:38:05 <gmaxwell> gruez: are you using UPNP?
542 2012-01-07 03:38:11 <gruez> gmaxwell: yes
543 2012-01-07 03:38:16 <k9quaint> gmaxwell: if it was my chrome, I would have successfully executed a 51% attack on Google's stock
544 2012-01-07 03:38:19 <gmaxwell> Thats actually the problem then, not IRC.
545 2012-01-07 03:38:27 <gruez> if my ip changes
546 2012-01-07 03:38:33 <gruez> connections drop down to 8
547 2012-01-07 03:38:35 <gruez> i restart
548 2012-01-07 03:38:38 <MC1984> bitcoin.conf works on windows yes
549 2012-01-07 03:38:38 <gruez> it goes back to 60
550 2012-01-07 03:38:43 <gmaxwell> gruez: yes because of UPNP, not because of IRC.
551 2012-01-07 03:38:51 <gmaxwell> MC1984: yep.
552 2012-01-07 03:38:53 <MC1984> i know those conf files are a linux thing
553 2012-01-07 03:38:56 <gruez> gmaxwell: so i disable upnp?
554 2012-01-07 03:39:00 <gruez> and forward manually?
555 2012-01-07 03:39:20 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: arg..."block index 334535ms" off of tmpfs...
556 2012-01-07 03:39:22 <gmaxwell> gruez: yes that would work around that problem.
557 2012-01-07 03:39:25 <BlueMatt> callgrind is soooo damn slow
558 2012-01-07 03:39:31 <MC1984> ok ill run it through on my hdd machine but not the ssd, to preserve lifespan
559 2012-01-07 03:39:37 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: also, upnp doesnt work after a couple minutes
560 2012-01-07 03:39:38 <MC1984> hdd seems faster anyway
561 2012-01-07 03:40:00 <MC1984> where are the timestamps logged
562 2012-01-07 03:40:04 <gmaxwell> MC1984: you'll get entries like this,
563 2012-01-07 03:40:04 <gmaxwell> 01/03/12 19:09:21 Bitcoin version 0.5.99-beta
564 2012-01-07 03:40:08 <gmaxwell> in a file called debug log
565 2012-01-07 03:40:31 <MC1984> ok ill clear a fresh debug log too
566 2012-01-07 03:40:36 <gmaxwell> Great.
567 2012-01-07 03:40:43 pickett_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
568 2012-01-07 03:40:47 <k9quaint> gmaxwell: I wonder if that graph changes at all if you paused the download of blocks
569 2012-01-07 03:41:16 <gmaxwell> k9quaint: it ... would get holes in it?
570 2012-01-07 03:42:40 <k9quaint> gmaxwell: yes, but if the problem is bad write perf, you would see blocks/sec go back up
571 2012-01-07 03:42:58 <gmaxwell> k9quaint: problem with write perf is sync writes not throughput.
572 2012-01-07 03:43:07 <gmaxwell> the actual io load is normally pretty low.
573 2012-01-07 03:43:36 <k9quaint> yes, subject to buffering/journaling
574 2012-01-07 03:43:54 <gmaxwell> (also random reads, but we can't really do that much about those short of keeping open txn in ram)
575 2012-01-07 03:45:02 <k9quaint> an interesting test would be to run on a ramfs volume
576 2012-01-07 03:45:38 <MC1984> why does this work in linux but not in windoes then
577 2012-01-07 03:46:05 <jrmithdobbs> k9quaint: blumatt just did 21:35 <@BlueMatt> gmaxwell: arg..."block index 334535ms" off of tmpfs...
578 2012-01-07 03:46:07 <k9quaint> because bill gates hates cryptocurrencies
579 2012-01-07 03:46:17 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: no, thats under valgrind
580 2012-01-07 03:46:18 <jrmithdobbs> k9quaint: so no, not interesting at all
581 2012-01-07 03:46:21 <jrmithdobbs> oh
582 2012-01-07 03:46:23 <BlueMatt> so, way, way, way artifically slow
583 2012-01-07 03:49:24 <gruez> aww shit
584 2012-01-07 03:49:25 <k9quaint> gmaxwell: what were the system specs (OS, etc) for the tests that generated the data for that graph?
585 2012-01-07 03:49:31 <gruez> installed qt sdk
586 2012-01-07 03:49:40 <gruez> and now my file associations are messed up
587 2012-01-07 03:50:20 <gmaxwell> k9quaint: AMD Phenom(tm) II X6 1055T Processor, 4gb ram, 2.6.35.14-106.fc14.x86_64
588 2012-01-07 03:50:42 <k9quaint> SSD? or HD, SAS or SATA?
589 2012-01-07 03:51:27 <gmaxwell> sata 6g (same as sas now, I guess), intel ssd.
590 2012-01-07 03:52:19 <k9quaint> the intel 510 series?
591 2012-01-07 03:52:56 <gmaxwell> Yea.
592 2012-01-07 03:54:46 <k9quaint> here is an interesting graph: http://www.guru3d.com/article/intel-510-ssd-review/10
593 2012-01-07 03:55:02 <k9quaint> it looks like that series is bad at the "many small writes" use case
594 2012-01-07 03:58:16 <MC1984> 50 kiloblocks, slowing down slightly i think
595 2012-01-07 03:58:26 <MC1984> its hard to tell with this UI hint
596 2012-01-07 04:00:15 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
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610 2012-01-07 04:39:15 <BlueMatt_> jgarzik: my sata driver just freaked the fuck out... ofc I blame you
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620 2012-01-07 05:18:50 xenland has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
621 2012-01-07 05:20:28 <amiller> or feel free to redirect me to a mailing list or something if there is one...
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625 2012-01-07 05:26:52 <amiller> hey roconnor
626 2012-01-07 05:27:25 <amiller> i want to know more about your Purecoin project, which seems to be a bitcoin library / miner written in haskell
627 2012-01-07 05:27:46 <amiller> do you have a mailing list or a bitcoin forum post or wiki or something like that i should read on first?
628 2012-01-07 05:28:29 <roconnor> amiller: sorry, I don't. I can answer questions though
629 2012-01-07 05:29:15 <amiller> kk
630 2012-01-07 05:29:21 <amiller> should i paste your darcs repository?
631 2012-01-07 05:29:32 <roconnor> you can
632 2012-01-07 05:29:33 <amiller> i'm trying to figure out some of your goals in the project
633 2012-01-07 05:29:39 <amiller> i have a bunch of ideas of what the advantages are of using haskell
634 2012-01-07 05:29:45 <roconnor> :)
635 2012-01-07 05:29:46 <amiller> you may just be trying to build a higher performance miner or something
636 2012-01-07 05:29:56 <roconnor> I have no interest in mining
637 2012-01-07 05:29:57 <amiller> i'm personally interested in looking at a formal semantics analysis of bitcoin
638 2012-01-07 05:30:05 <amiller> i would have started with Coq...
639 2012-01-07 05:30:06 <roconnor> that's more like what I'm interested in
640 2012-01-07 05:30:38 <amiller> you might like #concatenative
641 2012-01-07 05:31:26 <amiller> the bitcoin stack language is of course a pretty odd decision
642 2012-01-07 05:31:54 <amiller> one of the advantages of a 'concatenative' language like that is it should be easier to analyze formally
643 2012-01-07 05:32:06 <amiller> so like, there is a C 'interpreter' for the script in the satoshi client
644 2012-01-07 05:33:30 <roconnor> amiller: I'm not sure I understand the question; the standard client has an interpreter for the scripting language, and my code has one, there may be a few other implementations too.
645 2012-01-07 05:35:15 <amiller> ah sorry i got stuck misusing darcs
646 2012-01-07 05:35:39 <amiller> i hope it's alright just to put this pastebin here https://gist.github.com/1573898#L470
647 2012-01-07 05:36:10 <amiller> so first of all that's a really concise expression of the script interpreter
648 2012-01-07 05:36:31 <amiller> it's easier to follow than the C code
649 2012-01-07 05:37:04 <roconnor> amiller: I have an extended version that isn't posted yet. More operations implemented.
650 2012-01-07 05:37:23 <amiller> but what i'm thinking is that the main advantage to this approach is that you get a lot of information from the type system
651 2012-01-07 05:37:33 WakiMiko_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
652 2012-01-07 05:37:46 <amiller> i'll try to hurry up to a question since my ramble isn't going so well
653 2012-01-07 05:37:50 <amiller> what are you trying to get out of the type system here
654 2012-01-07 05:38:04 <roconnor> in doScript?
655 2012-01-07 05:38:18 <amiller> yeah
656 2012-01-07 05:38:46 <roconnor> The type describes the entirety of the state that is manipulated by the scripting language.
657 2012-01-07 05:39:16 WakiMiko has joined
658 2012-01-07 05:39:17 <amiller> so this is a pure function, no side effects or additional context to understand
659 2012-01-07 05:39:27 <roconnor> amiller: as is every function in Haskell
660 2012-01-07 05:41:15 <amiller> um well i was also going to ask about the OP_RETURN i'm curious how you would do that
661 2012-01-07 05:41:16 <roconnor> The state monad here is useful because the scripting langauge is stateful.
662 2012-01-07 05:41:16 B0g4r7_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
663 2012-01-07 05:41:26 <amiller> well nevermind verify is there
664 2012-01-07 05:41:36 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
665 2012-01-07 05:41:48 <roconnor> amiller: the Maybe monad is used because the scripting language can fail early and abort
666 2012-01-07 05:42:10 <roconnor> go OP_RETURN = fail "OP_RETURN called"
667 2012-01-07 05:42:31 <amiller> you also have go (Right OP_VERIFY) = do {t <- pop; guard (t == true)}
668 2012-01-07 05:42:45 <amiller> where 'guard' is imported from the Monad package
669 2012-01-07 05:42:57 <roconnor> In the end the string isn't used anywhere, so it isn't strictly needed, but I like annotating error message anywhere, even if the compiler just tosses it away.
670 2012-01-07 05:43:33 <roconnor> amiller: ya, guard will fail (ie produce Nothing) if the condition isn't True.
671 2012-01-07 05:44:20 <roconnor> amiller: acutally that code you quoted is a little broken; It is fixed on my computer
672 2012-01-07 05:44:58 <roconnor> I'll go ahead and upload a new version right now
673 2012-01-07 05:45:17 <amiller> ok
674 2012-01-07 05:45:20 <roconnor> done
675 2012-01-07 05:45:27 <roconnor> I've been working on the scripting engine
676 2012-01-07 05:45:36 <roconnor> It isn't quite complete yet, but it is getting there.
677 2012-01-07 05:46:53 <roconnor> amiller: BTW, there is nothing secret about this project. I just don't go around advertising incomplete and probably incompatible bitcoin libraries. No one like vapourware ;)
678 2012-01-07 05:47:19 <roconnor> amiller: I should add an MIT licence file to the project.
679 2012-01-07 05:47:47 <amiller> yeah fair enough :p
680 2012-01-07 05:47:56 <amiller> sorry for putting you on the spot by the way :p
681 2012-01-07 05:48:14 <roconnor> no problem. I like talking about my work
682 2012-01-07 05:48:15 <amiller> i just think it's an interesting effort, and if i'm curious maybe there's something to learn for others too
683 2012-01-07 05:48:17 dissipate has joined
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687 2012-01-07 05:48:45 <roconnor> I hope so. The scripting language as it is implemented has many many very bizzare corners.
688 2012-01-07 05:48:47 <amiller> could always go to another irc channel too if it gets boring or off topic here
689 2012-01-07 05:49:08 <roconnor> As I understand it is on topic for this channel
690 2012-01-07 05:49:16 <amiller> yeah so i have been looking at other 'academic' concatenative script languages to understand this better
691 2012-01-07 05:49:31 <amiller> i think the scripting language is a very peculiar part of bitcoin that's worth some more attention
692 2012-01-07 05:49:35 <roconnor> I must admit I'm not so familiar with concatenative langauges.
693 2012-01-07 05:49:43 <amiller> why a forthlike stack language, is it just because it's more efficient engineering?
694 2012-01-07 05:49:55 <amiller> and why all that genericity when there are only a few standard transaction types
695 2012-01-07 05:50:04 <roconnor> amiller: interestingly there are only 2 operations that do not statically alter the size of the stack.
696 2012-01-07 05:50:15 <amiller> what witchcraft would you want to perform with the crazy dup2 rearragnements and such
697 2012-01-07 05:51:04 <amiller> roconnor, i don't _quite_ follow, could you rephrase that
698 2012-01-07 05:51:23 <roconnor> OP_DUP always increases the stack size by 1
699 2012-01-07 05:51:29 [Tycho] has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
700 2012-01-07 05:51:37 <roconnor> OP_VERIFY always decreases the stack size by 1
701 2012-01-07 05:51:58 <roconnor> OP_HASH160 always keeps the stack size the same
702 2012-01-07 05:52:33 <roconnor> and so forth
703 2012-01-07 05:52:57 <roconnor> except for OP_IFDUP which is this crazy function that I have no idea what it would be used for
704 2012-01-07 05:53:19 <roconnor> and OP_CHECKMULTISIG (and I guess OP_CHECKMULTISIGVERIFY too)
705 2012-01-07 05:54:05 <roconnor> OP_CHECKMULTISIG reads n and m from the stack and pops that many more or less.
706 2012-01-07 05:54:29 <roconnor> which is a mistake in my opinion. n and m should have been parameters to the OPCODE.
707 2012-01-07 05:54:41 <roconnor> and OP_IFDUP should be thrown away.
708 2012-01-07 05:55:19 <roconnor> if that happened you could know the stack size at any point in time in the script for when run in any context.
709 2012-01-07 05:55:28 <roconnor> which seems like a neat property.
710 2012-01-07 05:55:46 <amiller> i've been trying to come up with a good way of expressing just what's desirable about this sort of static analysis
711 2012-01-07 05:55:51 <roconnor> well
712 2012-01-07 05:55:54 <roconnor> OP_IF as well
713 2012-01-07 05:55:58 <amiller> basically we are talking about doing formalized static analysis, not unit testing or something
714 2012-01-07 05:55:58 <roconnor> screws that up
715 2012-01-07 05:56:11 <roconnor> a little
716 2012-01-07 05:56:18 <amiller> where we'd be able to assert things about families of scripts or something
717 2012-01-07 05:56:46 <doublec> IFDUP does seem odd
718 2012-01-07 05:56:49 <amiller> but basically you could figure out exactly what the stack would look like ahead of time, without having to actually execute the script
719 2012-01-07 05:57:19 <amiller> so something that i've learned from reading about concatenative languages the past couple days
720 2012-01-07 05:57:27 <amiller> and it should also be familiar within haskell,
721 2012-01-07 05:57:44 <amiller> is that all of the stack things are 'combinators'
722 2012-01-07 05:58:00 <roconnor> amiller: is this a property that concatenative langauges often have?
723 2012-01-07 05:58:04 <amiller> which are just purely logical things that act on opaque values
724 2012-01-07 05:58:09 <roconnor> amiller: being able to staticly predict the stack size.
725 2012-01-07 05:58:26 <amiller> yeah it is
726 2012-01-07 05:58:32 <doublec> roconnor: it is for some
727 2012-01-07 05:58:37 <doublec> roconnor: eg. Factor requires it
728 2012-01-07 05:58:42 <doublec> roconnor: but Joy does not
729 2012-01-07 05:58:46 <roconnor> pity that bitcoin doesn't quite have it. It easily could have.
730 2012-01-07 05:59:10 <amiller> so an easy question is, are all of the stack operations in bitcoin necessary?
731 2012-01-07 05:59:15 <amiller> or could you create them from a smaller set
732 2012-01-07 05:59:24 <roconnor> amiller: clearly you could create them from a smaller set
733 2012-01-07 05:59:25 <amiller> and in general you only need two operations to derive all the others
734 2012-01-07 05:59:32 <amiller> 's and k combinators'
735 2012-01-07 05:59:38 <amiller> although there are other pairs
736 2012-01-07 05:59:44 <amiller> but basically that's the answer, you can do it with two.
737 2012-01-07 05:59:45 <roconnor> amiller: the scripting language isn't turing complete
738 2012-01-07 05:59:49 <roconnor> amiller: nor should it be
739 2012-01-07 06:00:18 <amiller> if anyone wants to be quickly talked out of turing complete languages, listen to this 28c3 talk The Science of Insecurity http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kEfedtQVOY
740 2012-01-07 06:00:43 <roconnor> amiller: oh is it good. I need to talk some people out of it
741 2012-01-07 06:01:02 <amiller> i'm not absolutely certain whether Joy Factor etc are turing complete languages...
742 2012-01-07 06:01:13 <amiller> but i think this should be an elementary question
743 2012-01-07 06:01:17 <amiller> i'm going to guess 'no, they are not'
744 2012-01-07 06:01:24 <amiller> doublec is that right?
745 2012-01-07 06:01:27 <gmaxwell> hopefully the 23c talk on that is better than the bitcoin onesâ¦
746 2012-01-07 06:01:42 <roconnor> poor Len :(
747 2012-01-07 06:03:58 <doublec> Factor for sure is turning complete
748 2012-01-07 06:04:09 <doublec> I have a website written in it :)
749 2012-01-07 06:04:16 <doublec> s/turning/turing
750 2012-01-07 06:04:26 <amiller> is it the case that if you can construct a y combinator, then your language is turing complete?
751 2012-01-07 06:05:07 <doublec> I'm not an expert on the theory of whether minimal concatenative languages are turning complete or not
752 2012-01-07 06:05:10 <doublec> sorry
753 2012-01-07 06:05:14 <amiller> hm
754 2012-01-07 06:05:33 <roconnor> amiller: y combinator isn't sufficent I don't think
755 2012-01-07 06:06:24 <amiller> so the bitcoin script i think is even simpler, because it doesn't have quoting
756 2012-01-07 06:06:35 <roconnor> amiller: thank goodness
757 2012-01-07 06:07:03 <amiller> i think that makes it on a simpler level even than a minimalistic concatenative language like Joy
758 2012-01-07 06:07:27 <amiller> so if anything that should make it easier to formally model...
759 2012-01-07 06:07:37 <amiller> at the same time that may mean there isn't as much to gain anyway
760 2012-01-07 06:08:38 <amiller> this topic is also relevant to me as it pertains to opentransactions, although that angle may knock this off topic for bitcoin
761 2012-01-07 06:10:40 <amiller> basically if you create smart contracts that are a bit more complex than bitcoin script, for example allowing recursive op_eval, you'd still really benefit from using a concatenative language that resembles bitcoin, in order to do this analysis
762 2012-01-07 06:11:57 <roconnor> I don't think allowing contracts to be specified by arbitrary computable functions is a good idea.
763 2012-01-07 06:12:29 <roconnor> whether or not an airline fare for a given route is acceptable or not is already undecidable
764 2012-01-07 06:12:35 <roconnor> we don't need more of that.
765 2012-01-07 06:12:53 <amiller> well consider this scenario
766 2012-01-07 06:13:07 <amiller> the airline gives you the contract and it has a jumble of terms
767 2012-01-07 06:13:25 <amiller> but you have a client program that has a list of properties that it demands to check
768 2012-01-07 06:13:37 <amiller> for example that no matter what you're liable for a maximum amount
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770 2012-01-07 06:14:00 <amiller> well frankly it's difficult for me to come up with really compelling things you'd want a complicated contract for
771 2012-01-07 06:14:11 <amiller> but the idea is you get to understand the contract from a bunch of assertions
772 2012-01-07 06:14:25 <gmaxwell> roconnor: certantly we what more expressive than a couple fixed rules. How expressive is expressive enough? turing complete clearly is... reasoning about the middleground is harder.
773 2012-01-07 06:14:53 <amiller> and you get to check using your own simple client checker (or anyone else could) that the details of the contract actually are Consistent with those assertions
774 2012-01-07 06:15:00 <roconnor> gmaxwell: poly-time computable would be a good first stab.
775 2012-01-07 06:15:42 <roconnor> amiller: or your checker runs forever
776 2012-01-07 06:15:43 <gmaxwell> (and I'm not trying to suggest that turing complete is good or needed, etc. only that its clearly 'enough'â the size limits mostly make turing completeness itself useless)
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778 2012-01-07 06:16:19 <amiller> roconnor, the awesome quality of the proof checker (in Coq and in Agda for example) is that it never runs for ever
779 2012-01-07 06:16:22 <amiller> the proof language is itself decidable
780 2012-01-07 06:16:34 <amiller> even if the proofs are reasoned about a model of a turing complete language
781 2012-01-07 06:16:38 <roconnor> amiller: and not turing complete
782 2012-01-07 06:16:52 <roconnor> yes
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786 2012-01-07 06:17:14 <amiller> so EVEN if the contract language were turing complete, you could still validate proofs about it with a non-turing-complete proof checker
787 2012-01-07 06:17:21 <doublec> IFDUP can be used to avoid having an ELSE clause in if's I guess. psuedo code: x ifdup if consume-x endif, vs: x dup if consume-x else drop endif
788 2012-01-07 06:17:25 <roconnor> amiller: yes
789 2012-01-07 06:17:30 <amiller> you could even be convinced that the particular script in the turing-complete language in your contract DOES complete
790 2012-01-07 06:17:42 <roconnor> amiller: but you cannot generate such a proof.
791 2012-01-07 06:17:46 <roconnor> in all cases
792 2012-01-07 06:17:58 <roconnor> amiller: so who is going to provide the proof?
793 2012-01-07 06:17:59 <amiller> that's right, the proofs would need to be provided by whoever made the contract
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797 2012-01-07 06:20:49 <roconnor> I still think it would be better if whether or not a contract was fullfilled was decidable.
798 2012-01-07 06:21:12 <roconnor> it might have provably have all the properties you want
799 2012-01-07 06:21:29 <roconnor> but still be undecidable what exactly the terms say
800 2012-01-07 06:21:43 <amiller> sure
801 2012-01-07 06:21:57 <amiller> okay so what cool things can be done with non turing cmplete languages?
802 2012-01-07 06:22:06 <amiller> you can still have loops for example, they just have to have like static bounds
803 2012-01-07 06:22:16 <amiller> 'primitive recursion' its called
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807 2012-01-07 06:22:54 <amiller> this is already on the frontier horizon of me knowing wtf i'm talking about...
808 2012-01-07 06:22:57 <roconnor> amiller: for every total computable function there is some non-turing complete language that contains it.
809 2012-01-07 06:23:06 <amiller> i wonder if there's a chess game validator written in non-turing-complete language
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811 2012-01-07 06:23:25 <roconnor> amiller: sure that would be easy to do
812 2012-01-07 06:23:47 <roconnor> amiller: you can basically write any practicle program in Coq except for an Coq interpreter.
813 2012-01-07 06:23:51 <roconnor> *practical
814 2012-01-07 06:24:32 <amiller> ah right
815 2012-01-07 06:24:46 <amiller> so typically when you extract a program from a Coq proof, you are sure that it terminates
816 2012-01-07 06:25:04 <roconnor> modulo some issues, yes
817 2012-01-07 06:29:26 * roconnor =<< sleep
818 2012-01-07 06:29:36 <amiller> cheers, thanks for the chat and the code to look at :]
819 2012-01-07 06:29:41 <roconnor> any time
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822 2012-01-07 06:35:51 <phantomcircuit> sipa, what's the status of your patch to change the internal addresses to ipv6?
823 2012-01-07 06:36:49 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/tree/addrman
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908 2012-01-07 11:12:53 <edcba> ;;bc,mtgox
909 2012-01-07 11:12:54 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.165,"low":6.1261,"avg":6.632159178,"vwap":6.631024289,"vol":115370,"last_all":6.84818,"last_local":6.84818,"last":6.84818,"buy":6.7849,"sell":6.846}}
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921 2012-01-07 11:46:36 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
922 2012-01-07 11:46:38 <gribble> Current Blocks: 161060 | Current Difficulty: 1159929.4972244 | Next Difficulty At Block: 161279 | Next Difficulty In: 219 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 8 hours, 58 minutes, and 18 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1236752.06864202 | Estimated Percent Change: 6.62303800376
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958 2012-01-07 14:01:19 <sipa> gmaxwell: that's the address manager i'm working on
959 2012-01-07 14:01:29 booo has joined
960 2012-01-07 14:01:42 <sipa> phantomcircuit: the one that changes internal addresses to IPv6 is netbase, pull #735
961 2012-01-07 14:02:22 <phantomcircuit> sipa, yeah i commented on it
962 2012-01-07 14:02:26 <phantomcircuit> looks good to be
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967 2012-01-07 14:20:50 <phantomcircuit> sipa, more or less as soon as that is merged i will add support for tor hidden services
968 2012-01-07 14:21:40 <sipa> phantomcircuit: i have code +- ready for full IPv6 support, for when this and addrman are merged
969 2012-01-07 14:22:15 <phantomcircuit> neat
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971 2012-01-07 14:22:37 <phantomcircuit> i just need the ipv6 CAddress support
972 2012-01-07 14:22:46 <sipa> but i guess you won't need to change much except for ConnectSocket()
973 2012-01-07 14:22:54 [Tycho] has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
974 2012-01-07 14:22:55 <sipa> and maybe some detection/setting of addrLocal
975 2012-01-07 14:23:01 <sipa> addrLocalhost
976 2012-01-07 14:23:18 <phantomcircuit> yeah
977 2012-01-07 14:23:36 <phantomcircuit> have to set addrLocalhost to the onion-mapped-ipv6 address
978 2012-01-07 14:23:50 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Pieter Wuille master * r67a42f9 / (21 files in 4 dirs): Network stack refactor ... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/67a42f929b1434f647c63922fd02dc2b93b28060
979 2012-01-07 14:23:55 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Pieter Wuille master * r1684f98 / (21 files in 4 dirs): Merge pull request #735 from sipa/netbase ... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/1684f98b27de9323d24ee4489af54dd84083956a
980 2012-01-07 14:24:06 <phantomcircuit> also change to listen on 127.0.0.1 (or maybe ::1) instead of not listening at all
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982 2012-01-07 14:24:30 <phantomcircuit> actually as it stands you can setup tor but it wont be able to tell anybody about your hidden service address
983 2012-01-07 14:24:39 <phantomcircuit> so you'd have to manually disseminate that information
984 2012-01-07 14:24:47 <sipa> how do connections back work?
985 2012-01-07 14:24:50 <phantomcircuit> also i will probably have to screw with the socks4a stuff a bit
986 2012-01-07 14:25:03 <sipa> assume we're both running a tor node and a patched bitcoind
987 2012-01-07 14:25:09 <phantomcircuit> you setup tor to foreward connections
988 2012-01-07 14:25:17 <sipa> how will bitcoind get a connection from you, if i tell you my hidden service address?
989 2012-01-07 14:25:28 <sipa> ok
990 2012-01-07 14:25:32 <phantomcircuit> afaikt there isn't a way to do so automatically without having read permissions to the tor directory
991 2012-01-07 14:26:19 <phantomcircuit> the tor control protocol has no method of listing hidden service addresses and their port mappings
992 2012-01-07 14:26:22 <phantomcircuit> which is kind of annoying
993 2012-01-07 14:27:34 <sipa> you'll probably also want to modify Lookup to support .onion addresses specially
994 2012-01-07 14:27:49 <sipa> so they are "resolved" into their onioncat-mapped ipv6 address
995 2012-01-07 14:30:56 zooko` has joined
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998 2012-01-07 14:33:00 <sipa> phantomcircuit: note that current bitcoind will not even forward non-IPv4 addresses
999 2012-01-07 14:33:12 Guest12024 is now known as OneFixt
1000 2012-01-07 14:33:21 <sipa> so it'll probably take a while before direct tor connections are useful
1001 2012-01-07 14:33:28 <phantomcircuit> sipa, yeah im aware
1002 2012-01-07 14:33:49 <phantomcircuit> that just restricts the rate of initial adoption
1003 2012-01-07 14:33:54 zooko` is now known as zooko
1004 2012-01-07 14:34:21 <phantomcircuit> it's a fairly compelling feature though
1005 2012-01-07 14:34:27 <sipa> yes it is :)
1006 2012-01-07 14:39:59 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1007 2012-01-07 14:43:24 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: the socks4a code in socat works great ;p
1008 2012-01-07 14:43:40 <jrmithdobbs> if you need a starting point, i haven't actually looked at it
1009 2012-01-07 14:44:22 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, i wrote a socks5 proxy because i couldn't find a good one
1010 2012-01-07 14:44:25 <phantomcircuit> i think im ok
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1015 2012-01-07 14:59:31 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: i just meant the clientside code, it's exactly how i('ve heard of people ;p) connect(ing) to hidden services running random tcp services (ssh)
1016 2012-01-07 15:00:00 <phantomcircuit> yeah socks4/5 are both very simple
1017 2012-01-07 15:01:14 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: basically, you add an option to pass namelookups to the socks proxy in bitcoind then bitcoind would need to pass/store hostnames and addresses instead of just addresses and if using tor or a socks proxy you pass all the resolution to it
1018 2012-01-07 15:01:33 <jrmithdobbs> that's what needed for hidden service bitcoind
1019 2012-01-07 15:01:38 <jrmithdobbs> pretty big change
1020 2012-01-07 15:02:52 <jrmithdobbs> $ ssh uqceze5g3wzsttpy.onion
1021 2012-01-07 15:02:55 <jrmithdobbs> X11 forwarding request failed on channel 0
1022 2012-01-07 15:02:58 <jrmithdobbs> Last login: Sat Jan 7 08:53:06 2012
1023 2012-01-07 15:03:00 <jrmithdobbs> <user redacted>@<hostname redacted>:~$
1024 2012-01-07 15:03:14 <jrmithdobbs> (X forwarding fails when you try and forward the creds that box already has, haha)
1025 2012-01-07 15:04:52 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: .onion addresses can be encapsulated in an ipv6 address
1026 2012-01-07 15:05:12 <sipa> there even exists an informal standard for that, employed by onioncat
1027 2012-01-07 15:05:57 <sipa> so when trying to connect to such an ipv6 address, bitcoind would need to translate it to its corresponding .onion address, and pass that to the tor proxy
1028 2012-01-07 15:06:10 <jrmithdobbs> yes
1029 2012-01-07 15:06:18 <sipa> no need to pass around hostnames inside bitcoin
1030 2012-01-07 15:06:29 <jrmithdobbs> you still are
1031 2012-01-07 15:06:48 <sipa> in a way, yes, but encapsulated in an ipv6 address
1032 2012-01-07 15:07:06 <jrmithdobbs> ya, you have to do some kind of resolution though it's just how they work
1033 2012-01-07 15:08:59 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: forgot about the onioncat stuff, that saves a lot of work for bitcoind since it means the big showstopper is ipv6 peer sharing
1034 2012-01-07 15:11:17 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, no you pass the .onion directly through the socks4a
1035 2012-01-07 15:11:39 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: it's still a special case
1036 2012-01-07 15:12:14 <jrmithdobbs> your code doesn't "do" the resolution but it has to be aware of the fact that it needs to pass it to the socks server
1037 2012-01-07 15:12:28 <phantomcircuit> yeah it requires a base32 encode added to the networking code as well as a couple lines of code in connect
1038 2012-01-07 15:13:44 <phantomcircuit> it's actually a fairly straight forward thing to do once ipv6 support is added to the address class
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1045 2012-01-07 15:22:44 <slush> is here any experienced PHP programmer?
1046 2012-01-07 15:23:05 <slush> I have one problem which I cannot solve by myself...
1047 2012-01-07 15:23:58 <slush> I need to implement class which will act as a variable
1048 2012-01-07 15:24:09 <tcatm> rm `which php5-cgi` should help :)
1049 2012-01-07 15:24:12 <slush> I expected that there are some magic methods which will handle such scenario, but I'm not sure
1050 2012-01-07 15:24:18 <slush> lol, yes
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1052 2012-01-07 15:27:42 <jrmithdobbs> you mean you want a singleton?
1053 2012-01-07 15:27:57 <slush> jrmithdobbs: no
1054 2012-01-07 15:28:07 <slush> something like $variable = new MyObject(parameters)
1055 2012-01-07 15:28:17 <slush> and then echo $variable should call some magical method
1056 2012-01-07 15:28:32 <jrmithdobbs> sounds like you want duck typing in php
1057 2012-01-07 15:28:35 <jrmithdobbs> good luck with that ;p
1058 2012-01-07 15:28:58 <tcatm> in python there is a @property decorator
1059 2012-01-07 15:29:09 <tcatm> does that do what you are looking for?
1060 2012-01-07 15:29:11 <slush> tcatm: that's slightly different
1061 2012-01-07 15:29:41 <slush> usually that $variable is the result of some RPC call
1062 2012-01-07 15:29:58 <slush> but when RPC call fails, I want to provide lazy object which will trigger the exception on the first access to the result
1063 2012-01-07 15:30:28 <slush> oh, maybe __toString will work
1064 2012-01-07 15:30:46 <slush> not sure how it will handle non-string operations, like 1+$variable
1065 2012-01-07 15:30:59 <jrmithdobbs> you're trying to make php act like a sane oo environment
1066 2012-01-07 15:31:03 <jrmithdobbs> there be dragons
1067 2012-01-07 15:31:03 <jrmithdobbs> etc
1068 2012-01-07 15:31:10 <slush> hehe
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1070 2012-01-07 15:31:30 <slush> looks like __invoke will be better solution. I will just press users to use $result() instead of $result
1071 2012-01-07 15:32:16 <tcatm> can't you force them to call a method?
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1073 2012-01-07 15:33:10 <slush> tcatm: yes, I'm considering that the result will be method returning variable or raise an exception
1074 2012-01-07 15:33:35 <slush> but it cannot be just a method, becuase I need to store some state inside. So in fact I'll return instance of object, which will act as a function :-)
1075 2012-01-07 15:35:26 <tcatm> why don't you use a sane language?
1076 2012-01-07 15:35:47 <slush> tcatm: because I'm writing php binding :-D
1077 2012-01-07 15:35:52 <slush> for Stratum
1078 2012-01-07 15:35:59 <slush> which is in python
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1080 2012-01-07 15:38:35 <jrmithdobbs> why would you provide bindings for such a broken language
1081 2012-01-07 15:38:36 <jrmithdobbs> heh
1082 2012-01-07 15:39:41 <slush> jrmithdobbs: because there are still a lot of developers who choose red pill
1083 2012-01-07 15:39:41 <tcatm> preparations for the next big bitcoin loss when someone runs it with register_globals or something :)
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1090 2012-01-07 15:50:47 <slush> tcatm: ok, I found that $result->get() would be the best choice. Maybe it can be achieved with the php somehow, but I don't want to implement some obscure method
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1131 2012-01-07 17:10:48 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Lohoris opened issue 749 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/749>
1132 2012-01-07 17:13:25 pickett has joined
1133 2012-01-07 17:15:35 <roconnor> Meredith's 28c3 talk does so far sounds kinda like a direct argument against OP_EVAL: specifically the "Shotgun Parser" slide which calls checking for input validity scattered throughout the program and mixed with processing logic a ubiquitous deadly design pattern.
1134 2012-01-07 17:16:26 <makomk> roconnor: I think that describes Bitcoin in general actually...
1135 2012-01-07 17:18:07 kiba` has joined
1136 2012-01-07 17:19:58 <roconnor> makomk: that's true; that's how the standard client is implemented; but at least it doesn't have to be that way.
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1141 2012-01-07 17:21:52 <BlueMatt> oh, its not /that/ bad when you really get down to it
1142 2012-01-07 17:22:20 <Ahimoth> its a mess
1143 2012-01-07 17:22:35 <Ahimoth> and ui update code sprinkled all over the place
1144 2012-01-07 17:23:46 <BlueMatt> its not clean, but the specific problem of having input validity checks all over the place isnt really entirely true
1145 2012-01-07 17:24:00 <BlueMatt> input validity checks are fairly well confined to main.[h|cpp\
1146 2012-01-07 17:24:02 <BlueMatt> ]
1147 2012-01-07 17:24:19 <BlueMatt> not that that is good enough, but its not /that/ bad
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1155 2012-01-07 17:32:26 <roconnor> slide 61 is especially relevent: Do not mistake complexity for functionality.
1156 2012-01-07 17:32:56 <BlueMatt> dont know where we do that
1157 2012-01-07 17:33:07 <BlueMatt> that is one of the problems I would argue we actually have less of
1158 2012-01-07 17:33:21 <roconnor> BlueMatt: I'm talking about the former OP_EVAL proposal.
1159 2012-01-07 17:33:32 <BlueMatt> oh, well yea that is relevant
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1161 2012-01-07 17:34:10 * BlueMatt hopes google+facebook+yahoo+others will shut down their websites in protest of sopa
1162 2012-01-07 17:35:02 <Joric> forever
1163 2012-01-07 17:35:24 <BlueMatt> I would like to see them shutdown their sites until sopa is blocked completely
1164 2012-01-07 17:36:32 <cjdelisle> isn't sopa dead?
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1166 2012-01-07 17:36:37 <BlueMatt> not at all
1167 2012-01-07 17:36:39 <BlueMatt> far from it
1168 2012-01-07 17:37:07 <cjdelisle> did they re-open hearings?
1169 2012-01-07 17:37:39 <BlueMatt> not yet, but there are no indications that hearings wont continue and the judiciary subcommittee pass the bill
1170 2012-01-07 17:37:52 <BlueMatt> (hearings were put on hold during the holiday break)
1171 2012-01-07 17:37:56 <cjdelisle> +1 for vigilence
1172 2012-01-07 17:38:16 <cjdelisle> but I myself don't think it's going anywhere at this point
1173 2012-01-07 17:39:46 theorb has joined
1174 2012-01-07 17:39:57 <cjdelisle> In fact, I suspect the more "they" push this bill, the more it will benefit ron paul because big tech companies will see him as a scortched earth tactic to neuter the federal government so this kind of thing can't happen again.
1175 2012-01-07 17:40:22 <BlueMatt> heh, if you think ron paul has a shot you are kidding yourself
1176 2012-01-07 17:40:30 <BlueMatt> none of the republican candidates have a shot
1177 2012-01-07 17:40:34 <BlueMatt> let alone ron paul
1178 2012-01-07 17:40:47 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1179 2012-01-07 17:40:47 <cjdelisle> oh so who will the democrats be running?
1180 2012-01-07 17:40:52 <BlueMatt> obama
1181 2012-01-07 17:40:56 * cjdelisle snickers
1182 2012-01-07 17:41:06 <cjdelisle> on what platform?
1183 2012-01-07 17:41:30 <BlueMatt> platforms never matter in the us...
1184 2012-01-07 17:41:41 <cjdelisle> his platform was "I'm not Bush", now that's irrelivent.
1185 2012-01-07 17:42:00 booo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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1187 2012-01-07 17:43:40 <BlueMatt> name one republican candidate who is a good speaker
1188 2012-01-07 17:44:46 theorb has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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1193 2012-01-07 17:48:25 <cjdelisle> none, they're all truthless used car salesmen but .. they're not obummer
1194 2012-01-07 17:48:35 roconnor_ has joined
1195 2012-01-07 17:48:43 <BlueMatt> and yet obama is a good speaker
1196 2012-01-07 17:49:01 <BlueMatt> and in the us, that is all that matters
1197 2012-01-07 17:49:37 <cjdelisle> myabe
1198 2012-01-07 17:50:03 <cjdelisle> kinda doubt it though
1199 2012-01-07 17:50:33 <cjdelisle> good speaker gets him 1 term, at this point I imagine a lot of people will vote for anyone just to get him out
1200 2012-01-07 17:51:03 <cjdelisle> not to mention the tech industry which he essentially tried to kill
1201 2012-01-07 17:51:05 <BlueMatt> heh, and yet all the republican candidates not only are bad speakers, but generally have no political skills
1202 2012-01-07 17:51:16 <BlueMatt> obama isnt the one who wrote sopa...
1203 2012-01-07 17:51:55 <cjdelisle> look at his friends, cabinet, doners. It's his bill.
1204 2012-01-07 17:52:09 <cjdelisle> he's got hollywood written all over him
1205 2012-01-07 17:52:46 <BlueMatt> and yet hes still not the one who wrote it
1206 2012-01-07 17:52:53 roconnor has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1207 2012-01-07 17:53:09 <cjdelisle> your point being?
1208 2012-01-07 17:53:20 <BlueMatt> hes not gonna get shit for it
1209 2012-01-07 17:53:42 <cjdelisle> not from the masses, but google certainly knows where this came from
1210 2012-01-07 17:54:07 <BlueMatt> heh, well we'll wait and see what happens no way to know until the end of the year
1211 2012-01-07 17:54:15 <cjdelisle> /nod
1212 2012-01-07 17:54:59 <cjdelisle> the repub lineup is lols, only group of people imaginable who could make romney look like a decent guy.
1213 2012-01-07 17:55:07 theorbtwo has joined
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1215 2012-01-07 17:55:30 <cjdelisle> he looks like such a slippery weazle, it's pretty amazing
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1219 2012-01-07 17:57:25 <luke-jr> on the bright side, SOPA = death to SolidCoin :P
1220 2012-01-07 17:58:08 <cjdelisle> IMO the problem with the tech industry is it has all this money and no idea how to turn that into political influence.
1221 2012-01-07 17:58:11 <cjdelisle> Growing pains
1222 2012-01-07 17:58:37 <[Tycho]> Isn't it dead already ?
1223 2012-01-07 17:59:00 <cjdelisle> IMO yes but others think not.. still +1 for vigilence
1224 2012-01-07 17:59:16 <BlueMatt> [Tycho]: not even close
1225 2012-01-07 17:59:35 <[Tycho]> BlueMatt: why ?
1226 2012-01-07 17:59:43 <BlueMatt> its probably gonna get through the judiciary subcommittee and pipa is gonna hit the house floor soon
1227 2012-01-07 18:00:08 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: it's struggling
1228 2012-01-07 18:00:26 <luke-jr> I filed a DMCA takedown with GitHub on SolidCoin's repo
1229 2012-01-07 18:00:34 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: why?
1230 2012-01-07 18:00:42 <[Tycho]> BlueMatt: I was talking about SolidCoin.
1231 2012-01-07 18:00:43 <luke-jr> they're resisting. I think that means they lose their immunity
1232 2012-01-07 18:00:48 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: copyright infringement
1233 2012-01-07 18:01:00 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: they can't even comply with the 1 simple requirement of the MIT license
1234 2012-01-07 18:01:05 b4epoche has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1235 2012-01-07 18:01:18 b4epoche has joined
1236 2012-01-07 18:01:47 <BlueMatt> [Tycho]: oh...
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1243 2012-01-07 18:13:26 <JFK911> goodjob
1244 2012-01-07 18:13:26 <JFK911> heh
1245 2012-01-07 18:15:29 wasabi5 has joined
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1250 2012-01-07 18:43:25 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: TheBlueMatt opened pull request 750 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/750>
1251 2012-01-07 18:43:29 theorbtwo has joined
1252 2012-01-07 18:48:14 gruez has joined
1253 2012-01-07 18:49:19 <gruez> X:\bitcoin-qt-build-desktop-Qt_4_7_4_for_Desktop_-_MinGW_4_4__Qt_SDK__Debug\..\bitcoin\src\net.cpp:18: error: miniupnpc/miniwget.h: No such file or directory
1254 2012-01-07 18:50:49 <gruez> X:\bitcoin-qt-build-desktop-Qt_4_7_4_for_Desktop_-_MinGW_4_4__Qt_SDK__Debug\..\bitcoin\src\checkpoints.cpp:5: error: boost/assign/list_of.hpp: No such file or directory
1255 2012-01-07 18:50:55 <gruez> where can i get that file?
1256 2012-01-07 18:51:07 <BlueMatt> first one - miniupnpc
1257 2012-01-07 18:51:14 <BlueMatt> second one - boost
1258 2012-01-07 18:51:42 user_ has joined
1259 2012-01-07 18:51:43 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: check with gribble when you get the chance
1260 2012-01-07 18:52:07 <gruez> BlueMatt:
1261 2012-01-07 18:52:16 <gruez> do i just copy paste boost files?
1262 2012-01-07 18:52:47 <BlueMatt> no, you need to install boost and add its include directories to the bitcoin include
1263 2012-01-07 18:53:19 danbri has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1264 2012-01-07 18:54:00 danbri has joined
1265 2012-01-07 18:55:11 Edward_Black has joined
1266 2012-01-07 18:55:23 Edward_Black has left ("Once you know what it is you want to be true, instinct is a very useful device for enabling you to know that it is")
1267 2012-01-07 18:59:05 booo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1268 2012-01-07 18:59:46 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
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1271 2012-01-07 19:02:15 <gruez> how can i use winapi functions in bitcoin?
1272 2012-01-07 19:02:33 <gruez> i want to use messageboxA for debugging purposes
1273 2012-01-07 19:02:44 <sipa> by importing the required header file
1274 2012-01-07 19:02:49 <sipa> *including
1275 2012-01-07 19:03:28 <sipa> (none of the bitcoin core devs are very much into windows development, i'm afraid, so you'll have to search for the details)
1276 2012-01-07 19:05:58 <k9quaint> gruez: you should rewrite bitcoind into Lisp, then it will be much easier to run on windows & linux ;)
1277 2012-01-07 19:06:03 abragin has left ()
1278 2012-01-07 19:06:39 <gruez> k9quaint: why not c#?
1279 2012-01-07 19:06:40 <gruez> :3
1280 2012-01-07 19:07:14 <gruez> is there a way to speed up builds?
1281 2012-01-07 19:07:19 <gruez> i comment out one line
1282 2012-01-07 19:07:27 <gruez> it it has to recompile everything
1283 2012-01-07 19:07:32 <cjdelisle> make -j7
1284 2012-01-07 19:07:54 <kinlo> gruez: how long does it take to compile it?
1285 2012-01-07 19:08:09 bahk has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1286 2012-01-07 19:08:35 <gruez> 3 minutes?
1287 2012-01-07 19:08:48 rdponticelli_ has joined
1288 2012-01-07 19:09:04 <kinlo> perhaps you should get a more beefier computer then :)
1289 2012-01-07 19:09:20 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1290 2012-01-07 19:09:35 <gruez> wtf
1291 2012-01-07 19:09:40 <gruez> X:\bitcoin-qt-build-desktop-Qt_4_7_4_for_Desktop_-_MinGW_4_4__Qt_SDK__Debug\..\bitcoin\src\init.cpp:577: error: undefined reference to `CoInitialize@4'
1292 2012-01-07 19:23:04 gruez has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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1328 2012-01-07 20:57:30 <roconnor_> luke-jr: if you find yourself with an hour to spare, you should watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kEfedtQVOY
1329 2012-01-07 20:57:51 imsaguy is now known as imsapirateat40
1330 2012-01-07 20:58:05 imsapirateat40 is now known as imsaguy
1331 2012-01-07 20:58:51 imsaguy is now known as [\\\]
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1336 2012-01-07 21:10:06 <diki> what is this of a new address format I read about?
1337 2012-01-07 21:11:15 eoss has joined
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1339 2012-01-07 21:11:16 eoss has joined
1340 2012-01-07 21:17:35 <luke-jr> â¦
1341 2012-01-07 21:17:36 user_ has joined
1342 2012-01-07 21:17:39 <luke-jr> diki: you're only months late
1343 2012-01-07 21:20:27 bobke has quit (Read error: No route to host)
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1348 2012-01-07 21:38:14 <Joric> never heard of a new address format
1349 2012-01-07 21:38:49 <Joric> wiki says some older addresses are shorter maybe because they didn't use padding
1350 2012-01-07 21:39:41 <luke-jr> â¦
1351 2012-01-07 21:39:45 <luke-jr> addresses have never used padding
1352 2012-01-07 21:39:58 <sipa> and the format never changed
1353 2012-01-07 21:40:05 <Joric> it's written there
1354 2012-01-07 21:40:10 <luke-jr> Joric: addresses beginning with 3, are the new ones
1355 2012-01-07 21:40:15 <luke-jr> no, it isn't..
1356 2012-01-07 21:40:20 <sipa> Joric: link?
1357 2012-01-07 21:40:25 <luke-jr> 'pad' is not on the wiki page
1358 2012-01-07 21:40:29 <Joric> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Address "Some Bitcoin addresses can be shorter than 34 characters - these are completely valid. A significant percentage of Bitcoin addresses are only 33 characters, and some older addresses may be even shorter."
1359 2012-01-07 21:40:31 <Joric> true story
1360 2012-01-07 21:40:47 <luke-jr> Joric: it doesn't say anything about padding
1361 2012-01-07 21:40:52 <Joric> i know
1362 2012-01-07 21:41:11 <luke-jr> and 'older' there refers to the ones used by 0.5 and earlier
1363 2012-01-07 21:41:13 <Joric> why it mentions older addresses
1364 2012-01-07 21:41:28 <sipa> not sure why it says that
1365 2012-01-07 21:41:33 <luke-jr> the page is slightly ahead of the clients :p
1366 2012-01-07 21:41:45 <sipa> who put it there, and when?
1367 2012-01-07 21:41:50 <luke-jr> sipa: 3⦠addresses can't be that short anymore
1368 2012-01-07 21:42:23 <sipa> i know
1369 2012-01-07 21:42:33 <sipa> but they are still 34 characters, right?
1370 2012-01-07 21:43:02 <luke-jr> â¦
1371 2012-01-07 21:43:08 <Joric> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Address "A Bitcoin address, or simply address, is an identifier of approximately 34 alphanumeric characters, beginning with the number 1 or 3" wow
1372 2012-01-07 21:43:13 <luke-jr> sipa: read it again
1373 2012-01-07 21:43:45 <Joric> why did you add 3?
1374 2012-01-07 21:44:01 <luke-jr> Joric: 3 is new addresses
1375 2012-01-07 21:44:09 <luke-jr> uses different tech under the hood
1376 2012-01-07 21:44:34 <sipa> luke-jr: if it says that older addresses may be shorter, that implies that newer addresses cannot be shorter
1377 2012-01-07 21:44:39 <sipa> that is definitely not true
1378 2012-01-07 21:44:55 <luke-jr> sipa: the newer ones cannot be
1379 2012-01-07 21:45:08 <luke-jr> the older ones only could because the first octet (version) was 0
1380 2012-01-07 21:45:20 <sipa> you're talking about type of addresses
1381 2012-01-07 21:45:24 <diki> does this mean that addresses starting with 3 would be faster to generate?
1382 2012-01-07 21:45:26 <sipa> i'm talking about creation time
1383 2012-01-07 21:45:28 <diki> I read something like that on the forum
1384 2012-01-07 21:45:30 <sipa> diki: no
1385 2012-01-07 21:45:43 <luke-jr> sipa: rephrase it then
1386 2012-01-07 21:45:58 <luke-jr> sipa: in the long run, they're the same thing
1387 2012-01-07 21:46:34 <sipa> depends on whether everything is going to be using pay-to-script-hash or not
1388 2012-01-07 21:47:00 <diki> where can I read more about PTS?
1389 2012-01-07 21:47:10 <diki> PTSH*
1390 2012-01-07 21:47:24 <luke-jr> sipa: that's implied by BIP 16
1391 2012-01-07 21:47:37 <luke-jr> and its deprecation of scriptPubKey as a script
1392 2012-01-07 21:48:25 <sipa> that is a possible evolution, yes
1393 2012-01-07 21:48:46 <luke-jr> it IS BIP 16 :p
1394 2012-01-07 21:48:49 <Joric> is there a forum link about those new addresses? i cant find anything
1395 2012-01-07 21:49:06 <luke-jr> BIP 16 effectively deprecates scriptPubKey in a backward-compatible way
1396 2012-01-07 21:49:08 <sipa> Joric: enough mailing list discussions about it
1397 2012-01-07 21:49:22 <sipa> luke-jr: i don't read that (though i only skimmed over it now)
1398 2012-01-07 21:49:38 <luke-jr> sipa: that's the only legitimate reason to special-case a magic script
1399 2012-01-07 21:49:58 <sipa> you may consider that to be the case, but that is not what it says
1400 2012-01-07 21:50:18 <sipa> i read it defines _a_ new standard transaction type, one which allows moving the checking script from output to input
1401 2012-01-07 21:50:31 <luke-jr> then it should be Status: Rejected
1402 2012-01-07 21:50:54 <sipa> i'm not discussing its validity or your opinion about it, only how you read it
1403 2012-01-07 21:53:17 minimoose has joined
1404 2012-01-07 21:53:46 <Joric> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=20111121114819.GB7261%40ulyssis.org&forum_name=bitcoin-development
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1406 2012-01-07 21:53:55 <Joric> They only contain the X coordinate of the point,
1407 2012-01-07 21:53:55 <Joric> while the value of the Y-coordinate is reconstructed upon use.
1408 2012-01-07 21:53:57 <Joric> is that it?
1409 2012-01-07 21:54:20 <sipa> no, those are compressed pubkeys
1410 2012-01-07 21:54:33 <sipa> we're talking about pay-to-script-hash addresses
1411 2012-01-07 21:56:04 <luke-jr> Joric: if "script to check signatures" happens to match "just check the provided data matches this specific hash" exactly, then it also executes the provided data as a script
1412 2012-01-07 21:58:23 <Joric> that should be it https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0013
1413 2012-01-07 21:58:56 <sipa> Joric: yup, that defines the address type
1414 2012-01-07 21:59:03 <sipa> bip 16 defines the transaction behing it
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1416 2012-01-07 22:01:11 <luke-jr> sipa: if BIP 16 is not explicit about deprecating scriptPubKey, then I will continue to push for its rejection
1417 2012-01-07 22:01:46 <sipa> *sogh*
1418 2012-01-07 22:01:49 <sipa> *sigh*
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1421 2012-01-07 22:10:29 Folklore has joined
1422 2012-01-07 22:11:15 <Folklore> why does coingenuity have admin in #bitcoin?
1423 2012-01-07 22:11:42 <Folklore> myself and others were shocked to see this
1424 2012-01-07 22:12:24 <cjdelisle> who are the others?
1425 2012-01-07 22:13:12 b4epoche_ has joined
1426 2012-01-07 22:13:25 <Folklore> if you've read logs of him in the past, you'd understand why, now he's abusing his power on me
1427 2012-01-07 22:13:48 <cjdelisle> do you have any logs handy?
1428 2012-01-07 22:13:59 <Folklore> i believe it was tux, idk, when I listed channel access a few days ago, many were shocked to see his name on the list
1429 2012-01-07 22:14:07 <Folklore> i'm happy thysmos was added cause he's aweosme, but coingenuity doesn't have the temperment for it,imho
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1432 2012-01-07 22:14:13 <Folklore> unfortunately I don't log, ugh
1433 2012-01-07 22:14:15 <Folklore> i'll see if anyone does
1434 2012-01-07 22:14:45 <cjdelisle> ok, make sure to let me know if you find anything
1435 2012-01-07 22:15:58 iocor has joined
1436 2012-01-07 22:16:08 <Folklore> I guess i'll just have to start logging, thanks for your time
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1442 2012-01-07 22:28:22 <graingert> Folklore: there is a web log
1443 2012-01-07 22:29:33 <Folklore> I found the log but see no point in sharing it, was only 1 person who was shocked beside my anyway, I thought was more
1444 2012-01-07 22:29:56 <Folklore> i'll just work on trying to be kinder and hope I don't get kicked, banned etc...
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1448 2012-01-07 22:42:19 <MC1984> gmaxwell
1449 2012-01-07 22:42:51 <MC1984> sync is done, about 18 hours eh....
1450 2012-01-07 22:42:57 <MC1984> this log file is 64mb........
1451 2012-01-07 22:45:50 <Folklore> i'd be tempted to compress it, see how small I could get it :)
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1453 2012-01-07 22:48:23 <marf_away> and he has ore trust i think
1454 2012-01-07 22:48:24 <marf_away> ;D
1455 2012-01-07 22:48:31 <marf_away> ups
1456 2012-01-07 22:48:33 <marf_away> ;D
1457 2012-01-07 22:50:26 user_ has joined
1458 2012-01-07 22:50:53 <sipa> marf_away: are you the one at our table in Prague, friday evening?
1459 2012-01-07 22:51:49 <marf_away> iam invited?
1460 2012-01-07 22:51:50 <marf_away> ;D
1461 2012-01-07 22:51:56 <gmaxwell> MC1984: it should compress fine.
1462 2012-01-07 22:52:16 <gmaxwell> marf_away: invited to the past.
1463 2012-01-07 22:52:43 <marf_away> ok
1464 2012-01-07 22:52:44 <marf_away> no
1465 2012-01-07 22:52:47 <marf_away> ;D
1466 2012-01-07 22:53:24 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: we need some transistion time.
1467 2012-01-07 22:53:46 <sipa> marf_away: *were
1468 2012-01-07 22:53:49 mcorlett has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1469 2012-01-07 22:53:56 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: deprecating shouldn't begin until the replacement is deployed.
1470 2012-01-07 22:54:09 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: erm, the replacement *is* the deprecation
1471 2012-01-07 22:54:19 <luke-jr> deprecate != break/remove
1472 2012-01-07 22:54:43 <luke-jr> deprecate = stop using this for new code
1473 2012-01-07 22:56:25 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: okay then I should have been more specific, there shouldn't be any processing delays/rejection until after the replacement is mature.
1474 2012-01-07 22:57:32 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: fine
1475 2012-01-07 23:00:09 <graingert> #bitcoin seems a little dirty atm
1476 2012-01-07 23:00:28 <sipa> it's been months since i was there
1477 2012-01-07 23:00:37 <sipa> doesn't seem to have become a nicer place
1478 2012-01-07 23:00:47 <graingert> http://pastebin.com/dZkctpB7
1479 2012-01-07 23:04:56 <gmaxwell> graingert: it had gotten better for a bit, more down hill recently. :(
1480 2012-01-07 23:05:22 <graingert> do you want to kick some people
1481 2012-01-07 23:12:07 <MC1984> gmaxwell can you take rars
1482 2012-01-07 23:12:26 <gmaxwell> yes.
1483 2012-01-07 23:12:56 ushiu has quit (Quit: http://driedleaves.no-ip.org)
1484 2012-01-07 23:13:04 mcorlett has joined
1485 2012-01-07 23:13:49 <MC1984> ah it compressed 90% how pleasant
1486 2012-01-07 23:14:57 <MC1984> ok gmaxwell you want to dcc this?
1487 2012-01-07 23:15:11 <gmaxwell> that would work.
1488 2012-01-07 23:15:39 <MC1984> ok ive never successfuly done a dcc before lol
1489 2012-01-07 23:15:53 <gmaxwell> Or it might not. They'll work for me. :)
1490 2012-01-07 23:15:54 <Folklore> if gmaxwell sends the dcc request
1491 2012-01-07 23:15:58 <Folklore> then you connect to him
1492 2012-01-07 23:16:06 <Folklore> better to just dropbox it
1493 2012-01-07 23:16:38 <MC1984> ok it says offering file to gmaxwell
1494 2012-01-07 23:17:22 safra has joined
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1496 2012-01-07 23:19:30 <MC1984> ok it timed out
1497 2012-01-07 23:19:44 <gmaxwell> MC1984: sorry. lemme try bringing up a ctcp with you first.
1498 2012-01-07 23:20:50 Folklore has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1499 2012-01-07 23:20:55 <MC1984> ok its says recieved ctcp connect
1500 2012-01-07 23:21:16 Folklore has joined
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1502 2012-01-07 23:21:44 <MC1984> ok now what
1503 2012-01-07 23:22:53 <MC1984> what the hell is dcc chat anyway
1504 2012-01-07 23:28:05 Folklore23 has joined
1505 2012-01-07 23:29:18 <MC1984> so irc file stransfer works like classic FTP does it
1506 2012-01-07 23:29:25 <MC1984> ie damn nightmare
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1508 2012-01-07 23:31:14 Folklore has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1509 2012-01-07 23:32:09 Folklore23 is now known as Folklore
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1513 2012-01-07 23:42:20 <gmaxwell> MC1984: how much ram does this system have?
1514 2012-01-07 23:42:41 <MC1984> 1024mb
1515 2012-01-07 23:43:18 <MC1984> well theres shared gfx so its like 900 odd mb really
1516 2012-01-07 23:43:36 <gmaxwell> hm. That might be part of it... not enough memory to keep all this in cache.
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1519 2012-01-07 23:44:42 <MC1984> well the other machine i tried it on was 2GB and SSD
1520 2012-01-07 23:44:54 <MC1984> and it was slower lol
1521 2012-01-07 23:45:20 <MC1984> but i will concede that this laptop is frequently out of ram and its pissing me off tbh
1522 2012-01-07 23:46:25 <gmaxwell> MC1984: what ssd though? a lot of them are really quite slow for writing.
1523 2012-01-07 23:47:27 <MC1984> lokkin it up
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1526 2012-01-07 23:50:57 <MC1984> http://www.supertalent.com/datasheets/6_180.pdf ok its an eeepc with this ssd module in it
1527 2012-01-07 23:51:09 <MC1984> 64gb MLC
1528 2012-01-07 23:51:15 <MC1984> data sheet says 100mbs write
1529 2012-01-07 23:55:56 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1530 2012-01-07 23:56:55 <k9quaint> the MB/s isn't what matters, it is the write-ops/s that matter
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1535 2012-01-07 23:58:50 <MC1984> how do i find that out