1 2012-01-12 00:00:44 <diki> tcatm:not in my country sadly
2 2012-01-12 00:00:52 <diki> My country is plagued by old computers
3 2012-01-12 00:00:54 <diki> thus IE6
4 2012-01-12 00:01:57 <cjdelisle> old computers are hardly a plague, to be more correct, your country is plagued by microsoft.
5 2012-01-12 00:02:51 <diki> haha
6 2012-01-12 00:02:59 <diki> true that
7 2012-01-12 00:03:05 <diki> But considering I am also on Windows
8 2012-01-12 00:04:02 <diki> If Windows never existed, we'd be running radeon 9550 GPUs and dual core pentium 4 at 90 or more nm
9 2012-01-12 00:04:34 <cjdelisle> windows is like any bad code
10 2012-01-12 00:04:55 <cjdelisle> it exists because there is a need that it fills and nobody has adaquately replaced it
11 2012-01-12 00:04:58 <cjdelisle> banks same
12 2012-01-12 00:05:01 <cjdelisle> governments same
13 2012-01-12 00:05:07 <lianj> doesn't get better, only different (apple)
14 2012-01-12 00:06:29 <cjdelisle> Ubuntu is trying to be the all around solution, and for really cheap offices it is having some measure of success
15 2012-01-12 00:06:54 <diki> I like my battlestation the way it is now
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30 2012-01-12 00:23:55 <gruez> it's just kinda lame
31 2012-01-12 00:23:59 <gruez> that mtgox blocks IE
32 2012-01-12 00:24:18 <gruez> for no apparent reason
33 2012-01-12 00:24:22 <gruez> the main site works fine on IE
34 2012-01-12 00:24:24 <gruez> but api fails
35 2012-01-12 00:24:33 <gruez> and that causes every .net appliction to fail
36 2012-01-12 00:29:31 <diki> switch to .com :D
37 2012-01-12 00:29:49 <gruez> lol
38 2012-01-12 00:38:54 <edcba> haha
39 2012-01-12 00:39:05 <edcba> what api ?
40 2012-01-12 00:39:13 <edcba> just specify some user agent i guess
41 2012-01-12 00:39:53 <gmaxwell> Perhaps there are JS driven DDOS attacks from IE browsers to the API.
42 2012-01-12 00:40:09 <gmaxwell> But â come on, if you can't change your user-agent, ...
43 2012-01-12 00:40:47 roconnor_ has joined
44 2012-01-12 00:41:02 <gmaxwell> Wikimedia blocks a lot of common web api useragents like the php http stuff, with a message telling you to switch to a useragent specific to your app so they can block just that if it goes nuts.
45 2012-01-12 00:41:15 <edcba> indeed
46 2012-01-12 00:41:27 <edcba> i think it is reasonnable
47 2012-01-12 00:43:57 <gruez> edcba: mt-gox
48 2012-01-12 00:44:03 roconnor has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
49 2012-01-12 00:44:15 <gruez> http://mtgox.com/api/0/data/ticker.php
50 2012-01-12 00:44:21 <gruez> try it with internet explorer
51 2012-01-12 00:44:39 <pierce> what does it do in IE?
52 2012-01-12 00:44:45 <gruez> nothing
53 2012-01-12 00:44:47 <gruez> it just times out
54 2012-01-12 00:44:50 <pierce> ha
55 2012-01-12 00:45:02 <gruez> they essentially "blocked" .net applications from using their api
56 2012-01-12 00:45:03 btc_novice has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
57 2012-01-12 00:45:14 <gmaxwell> gruez: Just change your useragent.
58 2012-01-12 00:45:51 <gmaxwell> gruez: if you're not able to do that you either need to 'upgrade' the http library you're using or your mad programming skills.
59 2012-01-12 00:45:55 <gmaxwell> :)
60 2012-01-12 00:48:10 kam1l has joined
61 2012-01-12 00:48:38 <kam1l> yeah luke jr,sorry about last night, decided to bugtest on my own VPS :3
62 2012-01-12 00:49:15 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
63 2012-01-12 00:49:17 <edcba> gmaxwell: http lib is .net framework
64 2012-01-12 00:49:41 JZavala has joined
65 2012-01-12 00:49:52 <kam1l> anyone know of the ports that pushpoold needs to use to communicate with bitcoind with?
66 2012-01-12 00:50:14 <gmaxwell> edcba: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=.net+framework+http+useragent
67 2012-01-12 00:50:46 <edcba> i still prefer google links as i don't have js enabled :)
68 2012-01-12 00:50:57 <tcatm> kam1l: tcp 8332 and maybe tcp 8333
69 2012-01-12 00:51:16 <edcba> gmaxwell: 2nd link you fail ! :)
70 2012-01-12 00:51:29 <edcba> gruez: do your work now
71 2012-01-12 00:51:30 <kam1l> would that be considered http json-rpc protocol?
72 2012-01-12 00:53:10 <gmaxwell> edcba: the first one sounded like what you need.
73 2012-01-12 00:53:52 <edcba> i don't need anything
74 2012-01-12 00:53:54 Gaming4JC has joined
75 2012-01-12 00:53:57 <edcba> so no ! :)
76 2012-01-12 00:53:57 <kam1l> is there a pushpool channel in her?
77 2012-01-12 00:53:59 <Gaming4JC> ;;seen Myckel
78 2012-01-12 00:53:59 <gribble> Myckel was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 36 weeks, 3 days, 12 hours, 1 minute, and 57 seconds ago: <Myckel> I mean very short term (like in next hour)
79 2012-01-12 00:54:17 <Gaming4JC> Well that explains why my ad hasn't been approved.
80 2012-01-12 00:54:24 <Gaming4JC> Operation Unfabulous ... :|
81 2012-01-12 00:54:27 vigilyn has left ("Leaving")
82 2012-01-12 00:54:45 vigilyn has joined
83 2012-01-12 00:54:58 Keefe has joined
84 2012-01-12 00:55:12 <Gaming4JC> ;;getrating Myckel
85 2012-01-12 00:55:13 <gribble> User Myckel, created on Sun Jan 2 10:54:39 2011. Cumulative rating 1, from 1 total ratings. Received ratings: 1 positive, 0 negative. Sent ratings: 1 positive, 0 negative. Details: http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=Myckel Currently not authenticated.
86 2012-01-12 00:55:23 Keefe is now known as Guest9503
87 2012-01-12 00:58:06 <Gaming4JC> http://www.bitcoinforums.net/members/biomike.61/
88 2012-01-12 00:58:07 <Gaming4JC> :|
89 2012-01-12 00:59:25 <kam1l> gmaxwell: what would a proper functioning debug.log look like?
90 2012-01-12 00:59:42 <kam1l> if it was functioning as a pool connection to the bitcoin network*
91 2012-01-12 01:00:42 <edcba> timestamped entries
92 2012-01-12 01:00:52 <kam1l> ahh kk
93 2012-01-12 01:00:54 <gmaxwell> As a pool? I don't recall any specific mining related debug log entries.
94 2012-01-12 01:00:55 <edcba> that would be a proper debug.log firstly...
95 2012-01-12 01:01:04 <kam1l> this is a proper debug.log :P
96 2012-01-12 01:01:08 <gmaxwell> you'll just see things like
97 2012-01-12 01:01:08 <kam1l> latest bitcoin download
98 2012-01-12 01:01:08 <gmaxwell> 01/12/12 00:56:22 askfor tx 8b09c790d3ad022bca49 0
99 2012-01-12 01:01:09 <gmaxwell> 01/12/12 00:56:22 sending getdata: tx 8b09c790d3ad022bca49
100 2012-01-12 01:01:20 <kam1l> what would a getwork show up as?
101 2012-01-12 01:01:20 <gmaxwell> though you won't get the timestamps unless you've enabled them.
102 2012-01-12 01:01:23 <gmaxwell> They don't.
103 2012-01-12 01:01:24 <edcba> someone added timestamps finally ?
104 2012-01-12 01:01:25 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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106 2012-01-12 01:01:39 <gmaxwell> edcba: they've been there all along, but they aren't enabled by default.
107 2012-01-12 01:01:39 devrandom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
108 2012-01-12 01:01:41 <kam1l> is there any way to tell if my pool is connected to the bitcoind?
109 2012-01-12 01:01:47 wasabi1 has joined
110 2012-01-12 01:01:49 <gmaxwell> edcba: presumably for security.
111 2012-01-12 01:01:55 <edcba> ??
112 2012-01-12 01:02:02 <gmaxwell> kam1l: your miners wouldn't be able to submit shares.
113 2012-01-12 01:02:08 <kam1l> yes, I get an upstream RPC error
114 2012-01-12 01:02:15 <gmaxwell> edcba: go around seizing nodes to get their logs to track txn back to their origin.
115 2012-01-12 01:02:18 <kam1l> I assume thats the give away :P
116 2012-01-12 01:02:28 pickett has joined
117 2012-01-12 01:02:29 <gmaxwell> kam1l: yes, so fix your RPC settings.
118 2012-01-12 01:02:30 devrandom has joined
119 2012-01-12 01:02:35 <edcba> gmaxwell: seems weak security issue
120 2012-01-12 01:02:40 <gmaxwell> kam1l: How much hash power are you mining with?
121 2012-01-12 01:02:42 <kam1l> gmaxwell: thats the hard part :P
122 2012-01-12 01:02:47 <kam1l> and to test, 198 mhash
123 2012-01-12 01:02:50 <edcba> i'd prefer reading settings of rpc server than debug.log :)
124 2012-01-12 01:02:51 <kam1l> just my shitty graphics card I have here
125 2012-01-12 01:02:57 <gruez> <gmaxwell> gruez: Just change your useragent.
126 2012-01-12 01:02:59 <gmaxwell> kam1l: oh, you're the person with the fpgas.
127 2012-01-12 01:03:00 <gruez> already did that
128 2012-01-12 01:03:05 <kam1l> yes gmax :)
129 2012-01-12 01:03:17 <kam1l> I decidded not to ddos eligius anymore with my shitty fpgas
130 2012-01-12 01:03:19 <gruez> request.UserAgent = "I had to change the user-agent because magical tux thinks it's funny to block Internet Explorer (and hence all .net applications) from using its api";
131 2012-01-12 01:03:26 <kam1l> and fuck up my own vps instead
132 2012-01-12 01:03:27 pavel has joined
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134 2012-01-12 01:04:11 <gmaxwell> meh, get your rpc permissions set correctly? are you able to getinfo your node?
135 2012-01-12 01:04:37 <kam1l> yes
136 2012-01-12 01:04:44 <kam1l> but pushpool isn't connecting to it
137 2012-01-12 01:04:57 <kam1l> theres about 60 ports in the server.json file for pushpool
138 2012-01-12 01:05:01 <gmaxwell> did you set the port to the rpcport in the pushpool config.
139 2012-01-12 01:05:03 <kam1l> and none of them have very descriptive //s
140 2012-01-12 01:05:28 <gmaxwell> er, most of the stuff there is database related IIRC
141 2012-01-12 01:05:35 <kam1l> yeah I figured
142 2012-01-12 01:05:38 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
143 2012-01-12 01:06:10 <gmaxwell> There is a walkthrough here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=10321.0
144 2012-01-12 01:06:33 <kam1l> oh I know
145 2012-01-12 01:06:41 <kam1l> its perfectly written
146 2012-01-12 01:06:44 <kam1l> till the last 10 lines or so
147 2012-01-12 01:07:08 <gmaxwell> You're running pushpool and bitcoind on the same system right?
148 2012-01-12 01:07:14 <kam1l> yeah
149 2012-01-12 01:07:21 <gmaxwell> (bitcoind will only accept localhost connections by default)
150 2012-01-12 01:07:40 <kam1l> yeah
151 2012-01-12 01:07:41 <kam1l> I know :P
152 2012-01-12 01:10:25 <kam1l> I think the best way to fix the problem is the "dicking around" solution
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156 2012-01-12 01:19:45 <amiller> roconnor_, this is the basis of how i think your haskell code would be modeled in coq https://gist.github.com/77e1c6cedf946583c9be
157 2012-01-12 01:20:08 d4de has joined
158 2012-01-12 01:22:16 <kam1l> ugh
159 2012-01-12 01:22:21 <kam1l> I shouldn't be getting any upstream errors
160 2012-01-12 01:22:28 <kam1l> I'm using default ports for both bitcoind and pushpoold
161 2012-01-12 01:23:43 <kam1l> HTTP request failed: couldn't connect to host
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166 2012-01-12 01:30:03 <amiller> roconnor_, basically the idea is to make a monad type that encapsulates the bitcoin 'state', meaning it has an error condition, and it has two-stacks that get passed around, and it has a return value you can use to make sense of it
167 2012-01-12 01:33:55 <amiller> then the OP_CODES are expressed as monadic functions with the do x <- y; notation
168 2012-01-12 01:34:27 <amiller> and there are a few modules in the user contrib with useful monad tools and lemmas, which i think would help
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175 2012-01-12 02:00:13 <kam1l> ok finally got it working
176 2012-01-12 02:01:26 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
177 2012-01-12 02:01:48 <roconnor_> amiller: nice work
178 2012-01-12 02:02:17 wasabi2 has joined
179 2012-01-12 02:02:38 <amiller> thx roconnor_ , here are two monad modules i mentioned : 1. http://coq.inria.fr/pylons/contribs/files/lc/trunk/lc.Monad.html 2. http://coq.inria.fr/pylons/contribs/files/QuicksortComplexity/trunk/monads.html
180 2012-01-12 02:02:54 <roconnor_> Definition M (A:Set) := BtcState -> option (BtcState * A). I think
181 2012-01-12 02:03:05 <roconnor_> would be the normal definition
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183 2012-01-12 02:04:45 <kam1l> what changes to the bitcoin.conf file makes the client suitable for mining? there seems to be alot of lag time involved with it
184 2012-01-12 02:05:00 <kam1l> is noirc=1 a prudent choice?
185 2012-01-12 02:05:22 <sipa> kam1l: don't mine with the client
186 2012-01-12 02:05:40 <kam1l> I mine iwth a pool sipa
187 2012-01-12 02:05:45 <kam1l> my own pool
188 2012-01-12 02:05:48 <kam1l> I'm testing it
189 2012-01-12 02:06:01 <kam1l> it seems slow network side
190 2012-01-12 02:06:18 <doublec> kam1l: the json rpc server in the client is single threaded and block iirc
191 2012-01-12 02:06:22 ivan` has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
192 2012-01-12 02:06:25 <doublec> kam1l: which can cause issues under high load
193 2012-01-12 02:07:06 <doublec> kam1l: there's a bunch of third party patches that are often used to address this and other things to improve pools
194 2012-01-12 02:08:16 <kam1l> and now I get to go google hunting eh? :P
195 2012-01-12 02:08:34 <doublec> kam1l: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=22585.msg384157#msg384157
196 2012-01-12 02:08:40 <gmaxwell> kam1l: or switch to aggregation software that does its own internal work generation.
197 2012-01-12 02:08:47 <doublec> right
198 2012-01-12 02:08:51 <gmaxwell> (e.g. not pushpool)
199 2012-01-12 02:09:06 <doublec> I think kam1l is writing their own pool?
200 2012-01-12 02:09:11 <kam1l> nope
201 2012-01-12 02:09:13 <kam1l> its pushpool :P
202 2012-01-12 02:09:15 <gmaxwell> kam1l apparently has some farm of hundreds of slow fpgas.
203 2012-01-12 02:09:18 <doublec> ah ok
204 2012-01-12 02:09:23 <kam1l> that don't function properly
205 2012-01-12 02:09:26 <kam1l> ^^
206 2012-01-12 02:09:27 <gmaxwell> And tried using eligius and managed to DOS it.
207 2012-01-12 02:09:41 <kam1l> trying to economize them
208 2012-01-12 02:09:49 <kam1l> and I don't think luke-jr wants me back ahaha
209 2012-01-12 02:09:52 <doublec> how'd it DOS eligius?
210 2012-01-12 02:09:59 <kam1l> great question
211 2012-01-12 02:10:00 <doublec> no longpolls?
212 2012-01-12 02:10:12 <gmaxwell> doublec: getwork flood.
213 2012-01-12 02:10:35 <gmaxwell> but yea, dunno why that caused problems.
214 2012-01-12 02:10:39 <kam1l> whats the best way to deal with that gmaxwell?
215 2012-01-12 02:10:45 <kam1l> serverside*
216 2012-01-12 02:11:04 <doublec> kam1l: are you using longpoll?
217 2012-01-12 02:11:05 sacarlson has joined
218 2012-01-12 02:11:11 <kam1l> yes
219 2012-01-12 02:11:29 <kam1l> actually wait, no I'm not*
220 2012-01-12 02:11:30 <doublec> how many hundreds of machines is it?
221 2012-01-12 02:11:31 <kam1l> had to check aha
222 2012-01-12 02:11:36 <kam1l> 200 give or take
223 2012-01-12 02:11:43 <doublec> ah, that'll make a difference if you're not longpolling
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225 2012-01-12 02:11:53 <kam1l> longpolling kills servers?
226 2012-01-12 02:11:57 <doublec> 200 requests every few seconds vs every minute
227 2012-01-12 02:12:00 <kam1l> non longpooling*
228 2012-01-12 02:12:03 <kam1l> ah
229 2012-01-12 02:12:08 <kam1l> I guess I know what to edit then :P
230 2012-01-12 02:12:09 <doublec> increases load x20-30
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232 2012-01-12 02:14:18 <osmosis> "getnewaddress [account] Returns a new bitcoin address for receiving payments. If [account] is specified (recommended), it is added to the address book so payments received with the address will be credited to [account]."
233 2012-01-12 02:14:28 <osmosis> so does that mean that 'accounts' are the same as the address labels the gui uses?
234 2012-01-12 02:14:34 <osmosis> and if I want an address I create with getnetaddress to have a label when viewed from the gui, then I should put that in the <account> field ?
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237 2012-01-12 02:21:59 <lfm> nope, you can group addresses into accounts and when you pay out from accounts it doesnt really mean the same coins are used
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245 2012-01-12 02:56:34 <nanotube> osmosis: accounts is a separate layer
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247 2012-01-12 02:56:38 <nanotube> ;;bc,wiki accounts explained
248 2012-01-12 02:56:39 b4epoche_ is now known as b4epoche
249 2012-01-12 02:56:39 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Accounts_explained | Nov 8, 2011 ... Bitcoin allows accounts too. Each account owns a bunch of addresses. Taking our earlier analogy, you can imagine separate accounts as ...
250 2012-01-12 02:56:47 <nanotube> more details ^ here osmosis
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286 2012-01-12 04:49:20 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * r512c21629d9e supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/OTCWebsite/jsonifyorderbook.py: OTCWebsite: add an orderbook jsonifier script. http://tinyurl.com/6wplrh4
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294 2012-01-12 05:06:32 <osmosis> does bitcoin rpc support adding labels visible in the gui?
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296 2012-01-12 05:27:43 <nanotube> osmosis: according to https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Original_Bitcoin_client/API_Calls_list it seems it doesn't
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451 2012-01-12 13:51:58 <UukGoblin> who runs blockchain.info? It's displaying erroneous data about p2pool
452 2012-01-12 13:52:08 ageis has joined
453 2012-01-12 13:53:44 <UukGoblin> looks like it's piuk, I'll post on the forums
454 2012-01-12 13:54:25 <tcatm> It might be faster to send him an email.
455 2012-01-12 13:54:55 <UukGoblin> ok, thanks, will do that instead
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473 2012-01-12 14:35:50 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r3f64fa1 / (src/init.cpp src/main.cpp): Merge pull request #743 from gavinandresen/blocknotify ... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/3f64fa1369bde45034e451c4093e0852e59a1cdf
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481 2012-01-12 15:06:31 <gavinandresen> sipa: ping
482 2012-01-12 15:06:46 datagutt_ is now known as datagutt
483 2012-01-12 15:06:58 <sipa> gavinandresen: pong
484 2012-01-12 15:07:20 <gavinandresen> Have you started implementing base58-encoding of compressed/uncompressed public keys?
485 2012-01-12 15:07:46 <sipa> no, but i assume that's trivial?
486 2012-01-12 15:08:01 <gavinandresen> Yes, just wanted to avoid some work....
487 2012-01-12 15:08:25 <sipa> just base58 encoding GetPubKey(), or feeding base58-decoded input to SetPubKey should work
488 2012-01-12 15:08:41 <sipa> so i don't think you need any changes at all
489 2012-01-12 15:09:11 <gavinandresen> You proposed a checksum, too, that'll need to get checked
490 2012-01-12 15:09:28 denisx has joined
491 2012-01-12 15:10:18 <sipa> sure you're not referring to the base58 format for private keys?
492 2012-01-12 15:10:35 <gavinandresen> I could be confusing myself
493 2012-01-12 15:10:48 wasabi1 has joined
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495 2012-01-12 15:11:17 <gavinandresen> So, here's why I'm asking:
496 2012-01-12 15:11:42 <sipa> the base58 format for public keys is only used for addmultiaddress or what is it called, and there it does not have a checksum, and simply encodes the serialized pubkey -- that should work for both compressed and uncompressed keys
497 2012-01-12 15:11:43 <gavinandresen> the p2sh branch extends validateaddress to spit out full public keys (if known) in hex and base58
498 2012-01-12 15:11:49 <nanobyte> Is there a place I can see upcoming features for new versions, or some sort of roadmap of sorts? Thanks
499 2012-01-12 15:12:10 <gavinandresen> nanotube: nope. Want to volunteer to maintain a roadmap?
500 2012-01-12 15:12:21 <sipa> s/nanotube/nanobyte/
501 2012-01-12 15:12:31 <sipa> gavinandresen: i don't think any work at all is required there - it's simply 33 bytes instead of 65 that are encoded
502 2012-01-12 15:12:39 scoots has quit (Quit: Bah)
503 2012-01-12 15:13:09 <sipa> and calling CKey::SetPubKey() with a 33-byte pubkey automatically puts it in compressed mode
504 2012-01-12 15:13:19 <gavinandresen> sipa: well, a little work was required on the 'addmultisigaddress' RPC call because hex is a subset of base58....
505 2012-01-12 15:13:51 <sipa> i mean no work in addition to what you already did to make it work for non-compressed keys
506 2012-01-12 15:14:18 sneak has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
507 2012-01-12 15:14:41 <nanobyte> gavinandresen perhaps in the future, right now I am still working towards understanding bitcoin as a whole
508 2012-01-12 15:14:46 <gavinandresen> Right. So I'm mis-remembering and there's been no proposal to come up with an error-checked encoding of public keys?
509 2012-01-12 15:14:47 <nanotube> omg it's a nanotube impersonator! :)
510 2012-01-12 15:15:00 <nanobyte> Heh
511 2012-01-12 15:15:17 <sipa> gavinandresen: oh, you mean luke's proposed format?
512 2012-01-12 15:15:24 <sipa> right, that uses a version byte and a checksum
513 2012-01-12 15:15:32 <gavinandresen> Maybe, I'm terrible at remembering who proposed what
514 2012-01-12 15:15:56 <sipa> let me search
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518 2012-01-12 15:16:45 <gavinandresen> Found it
519 2012-01-12 15:16:58 <gavinandresen> Discussion on bitcoin-development from middle of December
520 2012-01-12 15:17:04 <sipa> this? http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=28523237
521 2012-01-12 15:17:23 <gavinandresen> Yes, that too
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523 2012-01-12 15:19:00 <gavinandresen> A checksum and version on base58-encoded public keys seems like the right way to go
524 2012-01-12 15:19:10 <gavinandresen> ... if we think people might be copying/pasting them
525 2012-01-12 15:19:21 Keefe has joined
526 2012-01-12 15:19:23 <nanobyte> Alright thanks guys
527 2012-01-12 15:19:39 <sipa> gavinandresen: ok, shouldn't be hard to implement
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529 2012-01-12 15:19:55 <edcba> now i don't know if the way it is encoded is the right way
530 2012-01-12 15:20:28 <edcba> don't remember the specifics but seemed weird the first time i saw how
531 2012-01-12 15:20:42 <sipa> now they are encoded in base58 without any version byte or checksum
532 2012-01-12 15:21:17 <edcba> ok maybe we don't talk the same keys then
533 2012-01-12 15:21:22 * edcba scrolls up
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538 2012-01-12 15:25:06 <gavinandresen> sipa: I'm worried about feature creep; I think I'll remove base58 support from the p2sh branch and just have validateaddress spit out the hex version of the pubkey, and have addmultisigaddress take just hex. Support for base58-encoded pubkeys could then be a separate feature/patch
539 2012-01-12 15:27:09 <sipa> gavinandresen: fine by me
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542 2012-01-12 15:31:49 <sipa> gavinandresen: it could be part of a larger add-support-for-pubkey-addresses patch, that also allows them in other RPC commands
543 2012-01-12 15:32:35 <gavinandresen> Yes; the real feature creep would be to teach send() and the GUI to recognize them and create <pubkey> CHECKSIG transactions instead of DUP HASH ...
544 2012-01-12 15:35:05 copumpkin has joined
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546 2012-01-12 15:37:38 <CIA-100> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r14fb9dd / (2 files in 2 dirs): Added 1onevvolf's idea for shuffle+vstore to -vs - http://git.io/vSZg0w https://github.com/Diablo-D3/DiabloMiner/commit/14fb9dde9a2774f88fcab436f45d42bdfa4ea09b
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549 2012-01-12 15:51:09 <dikidera> why in the world is this gitshit so hard?
550 2012-01-12 15:51:16 <dikidera> I have to do a ton of stuff to comit...
551 2012-01-12 15:51:37 <Diablo-D3> git commit -a
552 2012-01-12 15:51:39 <Diablo-D3> git push
553 2012-01-12 15:51:40 <Diablo-D3> done.
554 2012-01-12 15:51:48 <copumpkin> lol
555 2012-01-12 15:51:49 * dikidera facepalm
556 2012-01-12 15:52:12 <dikidera> >implies Windows
557 2012-01-12 15:52:25 <Diablo-D3> git doesnt work on windows, problem solved
558 2012-01-12 15:52:32 <lianj> :>
559 2012-01-12 15:52:37 <dikidera> There are various git programs for windows
560 2012-01-12 15:53:22 <Diablo-D3> linus claims any compatibility with windows is an accidental bug and will be fixed in a future version
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572 2012-01-12 16:11:43 <nanobyte> Heh, yeah linus is a big fan of Windows
573 2012-01-12 16:12:53 <dikidera> damn it
574 2012-01-12 16:13:01 <dikidera> invalid revision, invalid revision
575 2012-01-12 16:13:08 <dikidera> that is all I am getting when creating a branch
576 2012-01-12 16:13:27 <nanobyte> Not having compadibility with an operating system that hundreds of millions of people use sounds self destructive to me though ;)
577 2012-01-12 16:13:35 d4de has joined
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579 2012-01-12 16:15:30 <nanobyte> Even if that operating system is kinda blah, and not as cool as linux
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587 2012-01-12 16:27:15 <k9quaint> git isn't for users, its for developers
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589 2012-01-12 16:30:42 <nanobyte> Ahh, woops missed the git part :)
590 2012-01-12 16:31:12 <luke-jr> http://solidcointalk.org/topic/500-more-news/page__st__20__p__5118#entry5118
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592 2012-01-12 16:31:23 <luke-jr> SolidCoin "pool" is planned to somehow "attack" Bitcoin
593 2012-01-12 16:32:41 <copumpkin> wtf
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595 2012-01-12 16:33:04 <copumpkin> he must be delusional to see it as a war
596 2012-01-12 16:33:12 <copumpkin> as if most of the bitcoin devs or users give a fuck about solidcoin
597 2012-01-12 16:33:22 <copumpkin> enough to even try to undermine it
598 2012-01-12 16:33:38 <nanobyte> I never even heard of solidcoin hehe
599 2012-01-12 16:33:49 <nanobyte> Only bitcoin and namecoin oh and litecoin
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601 2012-01-12 16:35:33 <luke-jr> copumpkin: I've taken legal action
602 2012-01-12 16:36:06 <copumpkin> luke-jr: I know, but even that is a comparatively minor action, and it was on your own behalf
603 2012-01-12 16:36:12 <copumpkin> you aren't acting for the community
604 2012-01-12 16:36:15 <Ahimoth> luke-jr: didn't see the word "attack" anywhere in there, just "offensive" and "retaliation"
605 2012-01-12 16:36:42 <copumpkin> Ahimoth the channel had "war room" in the topic and RealSolid has made it quite clear he sees it as a fight :P
606 2012-01-12 16:36:51 <luke-jr> "offense" is usually (always?) an attack
607 2012-01-12 16:36:53 <copumpkin> luke-jr: they've portrayed it as you being the bitcoin dev henchman etc.
608 2012-01-12 16:36:55 <Ahimoth> yes, byt luke quoted "attack"
609 2012-01-12 16:37:18 <Ahimoth> so if I fart, is that an attack?
610 2012-01-12 16:37:26 <Ahimoth> attack on your senses maybe
611 2012-01-12 16:37:27 <diki> lol
612 2012-01-12 16:37:42 <copumpkin> Ahimoth: offensive vs. defensive contrasted to offensive vs. inoffensive
613 2012-01-12 16:37:45 <copumpkin> the meaning is clearly the former
614 2012-01-12 16:37:47 <copumpkin> which means attack
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616 2012-01-12 16:37:59 <copumpkin> you're using it as the latter to trivialize it
617 2012-01-12 16:38:07 <Ahimoth> I guess
618 2012-01-12 16:38:17 <Ahimoth> you might laugh wehn you find out what it is
619 2012-01-12 16:38:20 <copumpkin> RealSolid seems like a bit of a loose cannon
620 2012-01-12 16:38:29 <copumpkin> more of a liability to the solidcoin community than an asset :P
621 2012-01-12 16:38:39 <copumpkin> polarizing them to see it as a battle between currencies, etc.
622 2012-01-12 16:38:53 <diki> I say we team up and find the creator of git
623 2012-01-12 16:38:55 <copumpkin> and as if the dark evil bitcoin-dev cabal is trying to undermine their efforts
624 2012-01-12 16:39:00 <diki> I'll hold him, you guys beat him up
625 2012-01-12 16:39:08 <Ahimoth> copumpkin: they aren't?
626 2012-01-12 16:39:15 <copumpkin> luke-jr might be
627 2012-01-12 16:39:22 <copumpkin> but otherwise I haven't heard a peep about solidcoin in here or anywhere else
628 2012-01-12 16:39:25 <nanobyte> "If we want to win this war we need to start using better tactics. I'm not running or behind this pool but I support the people behind it. "
629 2012-01-12 16:39:37 <Ahimoth> admittedly I haven't heard a peep out of anyone other than luke and gav
630 2012-01-12 16:39:41 <Ahimoth> so you may be right
631 2012-01-12 16:39:42 <copumpkin> Ahimoth: and everyone knows that luke-jr has um "different" views on many things than most people around here
632 2012-01-12 16:39:43 <nanobyte> Not sure how anything they do would effect the bitcoin community
633 2012-01-12 16:39:58 <nanobyte> Guess I don't understand the protocols well enough yet
634 2012-01-12 16:40:14 ThomasV is now known as ThomasV_afk
635 2012-01-12 16:40:28 <helo> diki: do you realize linus torvalds created git? :)
636 2012-01-12 16:42:41 <jgarzik> doubtful
637 2012-01-12 16:43:40 Nicksasa has joined
638 2012-01-12 16:44:11 Herbert has joined
639 2012-01-12 16:44:57 <diki> helo:dont know, dont care
640 2012-01-12 16:45:48 <diki> If I ever meet him, getting new glassess will be least of his problems
641 2012-01-12 16:46:12 <nanobyte> Sounds unpleasant :(
642 2012-01-12 16:46:25 <k9quaint> why is there solidcoin drivel in here :(
643 2012-01-12 16:46:29 <k9quaint> didn't we just spray for that?
644 2012-01-12 16:46:37 <diki> there git drivel here
645 2012-01-12 16:46:45 <nanobyte> I think linus is a pretty guy though, probably best to avoid confrontation ;)
646 2012-01-12 16:46:49 <diki> I've realized that thing needs to be destroyed
647 2012-01-12 16:46:53 <k9quaint> no, thats windows
648 2012-01-12 16:47:03 <k9quaint> git requires a modern OS
649 2012-01-12 16:47:09 <edcba> modern ?
650 2012-01-12 16:47:10 <k9quaint> something from after 1994
651 2012-01-12 16:47:45 <k9quaint> I wonder how well git runs on OS X
652 2012-01-12 16:48:09 <nanobyte> I meant pretty big guy rather, alrighty, time to pull my foot out my mouth and go make some coffee
653 2012-01-12 16:48:10 <diki> if linux was the only os, people would bankrupt
654 2012-01-12 16:48:24 <diki> *go bankrupt
655 2012-01-12 16:48:43 <k9quaint> diki: thats why we have windows, for the drool cup consumers to transfer their money to us digerati
656 2012-01-12 16:48:51 <luke-jr> Ahimoth is a SC dev, no?
657 2012-01-12 16:48:59 <diki> digerati=degenerates?
658 2012-01-12 16:49:17 <k9quaint> diki: digerati = illuminati + digital
659 2012-01-12 16:49:31 <luke-jr> Ahimoth: I don't think the MIT license terms are unreasonable.
660 2012-01-12 16:49:44 <helo> diki: do you think there may be some compelling reasons that has caused git to become so popular?
661 2012-01-12 16:49:55 <k9quaint> luke-jr: diff solidcoin bitcoin | wc -l
662 2012-01-12 16:50:08 <luke-jr> k9quaint: relevance?
663 2012-01-12 16:50:08 <k9quaint> result > 12?
664 2012-01-12 16:50:21 <luke-jr> um, of course
665 2012-01-12 16:50:28 <diki> helo:Not enough testosterone?
666 2012-01-12 16:50:50 <helo> probably :)
667 2012-01-12 16:51:26 <copumpkin> Ahimoth: yeah, regardless of how unpleasant the takedown was, it actually takes effort to not comply with the MIT license. It's pretty much the most liberal of all licenses above public domain
668 2012-01-12 16:51:30 wasabi1 has joined
669 2012-01-12 16:51:52 <k9quaint> all MIT asks for is credit
670 2012-01-12 16:52:00 <luke-jr> k9quaint: and leaving the license intact
671 2012-01-12 16:52:18 <k9quaint> luke-jr: either can be viewed as a side effect of the other
672 2012-01-12 16:52:19 <luke-jr> k9quaint: they've revised it give credit, but it still strips the license out
673 2012-01-12 16:52:28 <Ahimoth> luke-jr: yes, I have been contributing to the solidcoin source
674 2012-01-12 16:52:41 <Ahimoth> btw, have you looked at the source recently?
675 2012-01-12 16:52:47 <Ahimoth> for a license?
676 2012-01-12 16:52:50 <luke-jr> Ahimoth: no, I don't look at non-free source out of principle.
677 2012-01-12 16:53:03 <copumpkin> lol
678 2012-01-12 16:53:05 <luke-jr> Ahimoth: I did grep for the license terms in 203
679 2012-01-12 16:53:24 <luke-jr> and found it was still missing.
680 2012-01-12 16:53:27 <Ahimoth> you don't take a hint do you
681 2012-01-12 16:53:45 <k9quaint> oh wow, github took SC down
682 2012-01-12 16:53:46 <Ahimoth> so you completely missed license.txt?
683 2012-01-12 16:53:55 <luke-jr> Ahimoth: license.txt does not contain the MIT license.
684 2012-01-12 16:54:19 <Ahimoth> true, not the full MIT text
685 2012-01-12 16:54:23 <luke-jr> that's required.
686 2012-01-12 16:54:50 <copumpkin> it's also considered odd to remove the license from individual files, I think
687 2012-01-12 16:55:05 <k9quaint> odd indeed
688 2012-01-12 16:55:32 <copumpkin> that's what I mean by it actually takes effort to break the MIT license
689 2012-01-12 16:55:38 <copumpkin> you have to go through the files and take it out, if it was in there
690 2012-01-12 16:55:43 <k9quaint> it takes intent
691 2012-01-12 16:56:04 <luke-jr> copumpkin: yes, but I'd have a hard time using that for takedowns :/
692 2012-01-12 16:56:22 toffoo has joined
693 2012-01-12 16:56:54 <copumpkin> luke-jr: oh, my goal isn't necessarily a takedown :) I'm just trying to point out how realsolid is a liability to the solidcoin community (giving them the benefit of the doubt as far as all the "scamcoin" accusations run)
694 2012-01-12 16:57:09 <k9quaint> stripping out MIT and replacing it with proprietary license terms is usually not accidental
695 2012-01-12 16:57:13 <CIA-100> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r51857ea / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Switch back to 3 threads, helps double DMA chips like 69xx and 79xx - http://git.io/9stS3Q https://github.com/Diablo-D3/DiabloMiner/commit/51857ea0110793d4babe68e36850f7e28c43f1e9
696 2012-01-12 16:57:28 <copumpkin> k9quaint: granted, it could just be ignorance of the legalities of open-source software
697 2012-01-12 16:57:32 <copumpkin> as many people are indeed ignorant
698 2012-01-12 16:57:35 <copumpkin> but still
699 2012-01-12 16:57:39 <UukGoblin> he'll probably just put the license back in
700 2012-01-12 16:57:40 <copumpkin> liability if you act on that ignorance :)
701 2012-01-12 16:57:50 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: unfortunately
702 2012-01-12 16:57:57 <luke-jr> however
703 2012-01-12 16:58:03 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: a while back RS was proposing adding DDOS functionality to the SC software 'to protect solidcoin', know if they ended up doing that?
704 2012-01-12 16:58:04 <luke-jr> here's an interesting twist to it all:
705 2012-01-12 16:58:10 <gmaxwell> (to their credit: it was at least controversial)
706 2012-01-12 16:58:34 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: no, I don't know
707 2012-01-12 16:58:38 <luke-jr> anyhow, twist:
708 2012-01-12 16:58:58 <luke-jr> compliance doesn't mean you suddenly get your license back
709 2012-01-12 16:59:03 <k9quaint> copumpkin: no, I actually had a conversation with Realsolid about license issues
710 2012-01-12 16:59:09 <copumpkin> oh
711 2012-01-12 16:59:11 <luke-jr> that is, once you violate it, you lose the license
712 2012-01-12 16:59:13 <k9quaint> he didn't seem to think it was a big deal
713 2012-01-12 16:59:19 <luke-jr> you can't just "unviolate" it
714 2012-01-12 16:59:38 <UukGoblin> luke-jr, oh... interesting... that's not in the license itself...
715 2012-01-12 16:59:45 <luke-jr> so, RealSolid needs to ask all the Bitcoin contributors for a new license ;)
716 2012-01-12 16:59:58 <JFK911> lol
717 2012-01-12 16:59:59 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: no, that's standard copyright law
718 2012-01-12 17:00:02 <UukGoblin> ah.
719 2012-01-12 17:00:05 <UukGoblin> fun!
720 2012-01-12 17:00:17 <roconnor> luke-jr: I don't beleive you.
721 2012-01-12 17:00:18 <UukGoblin> it might not apply to Nigeria though ;-[
722 2012-01-12 17:00:20 <JFK911> professional lawyer?
723 2012-01-12 17:00:41 <JFK911> i heard if you move into compliance, issue is moot
724 2012-01-12 17:00:45 <JFK911> don't think you've got any damages.
725 2012-01-12 17:00:49 <luke-jr> roconnor: it hasn't been tested in court afaik, but it's certainly recognized as a valid interpretation
726 2012-01-12 17:00:50 imsaguy2 is now known as charity
727 2012-01-12 17:00:58 charity is now known as acharity
728 2012-01-12 17:01:00 <roconnor> luke-jr: though I do believe you could continute to purse a civil suit based on the previous violation
729 2012-01-12 17:01:35 <luke-jr> GPLv3 intentionally added a "cure" clause because of that
730 2012-01-12 17:01:44 acharity is now known as imsaguy2
731 2012-01-12 17:01:48 <luke-jr> ie, it laid out how to get the license automatically reinstated
732 2012-01-12 17:02:03 <roconnor> oh
733 2012-01-12 17:02:10 <gmaxwell> JFK911: if you go through the minor trouble of registering the copyright you're entitled to statutory damages, even if you can't show any actual ones.
734 2012-01-12 17:02:13 <k9quaint> well, they could just make a whole "new project" that is compliant
735 2012-01-12 17:02:23 <makomk> luke-jr: the GPL 2 had an explicit termination clause though.
736 2012-01-12 17:02:23 <JFK911> gmaxwell: $1?
737 2012-01-12 17:02:28 <gmaxwell> haha
738 2012-01-12 17:02:37 <JFK911> how do you get damages on something that's free
739 2012-01-12 17:02:50 <k9quaint> actually, copyright violations in the US now carry criminal charges and jail terms
740 2012-01-12 17:03:05 <k9quaint> (and a plane flight to gitmo)
741 2012-01-12 17:03:11 <gmaxwell> JFK911: $750-$30000 per copy at the courts whim, iirc
742 2012-01-12 17:03:12 <JFK911> im sure not always
743 2012-01-12 17:03:12 <edcba> JFK911: you can profit from something free
744 2012-01-12 17:03:23 <luke-jr> makomk: ?
745 2012-01-12 17:03:42 <luke-jr> k9quaint: since when?
746 2012-01-12 17:04:05 <JFK911> gmaxwell: well if the adversary doesn't show up, yes, the judge will probably sign off on any ridiculous remedies you request, sure.
747 2012-01-12 17:04:08 <luke-jr> JFK911: I don't think it's hard to make a case for damages against SC
748 2012-01-12 17:04:36 <nanobyte> luke-jr: Soon as the protect ip act is made into law i'd imagine
749 2012-01-12 17:04:37 <luke-jr> SC takes away users from BC, and damages BC's reputation
750 2012-01-12 17:04:47 <nanobyte> I believe that's what it's called
751 2012-01-12 17:04:49 <JFK911> i'd love to see realsolid ruined.
752 2012-01-12 17:04:50 <k9quaint> luke-jr: google "Bryan McCarthy" and "criminal copyright"
753 2012-01-12 17:05:04 <gmaxwell> I suggest we move this all into #bitcoin ?
754 2012-01-12 17:05:05 <JFK911> you should merge mine him, identity thief him, or egg his house.
755 2012-01-12 17:05:27 <luke-jr> JFK911: I won't do anything illegal.
756 2012-01-12 17:05:49 <gavinandresen> I think solidcoin is doing a nice job of making themselves irrelevant and we should ignore them.
757 2012-01-12 17:06:05 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen++ (as usual)
758 2012-01-12 17:06:21 <sipa> I wasn't aware they were still alive.
759 2012-01-12 17:06:26 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: yeah, I just figured it couldn't hurt to enforce our copyrights :p
760 2012-01-12 17:06:45 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: if it blows up into a big press story then it'll do more harm than good
761 2012-01-12 17:06:48 <k9quaint> gmaxwell: gavin was a pointer to satoshi, NICE job clobbering it :|
762 2012-01-12 17:06:57 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: all press is good for Bitcoin right now :p
763 2012-01-12 17:07:03 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: meh, it legitimizes their drama. I don't know if that rises to 'hurt' but I don't think you can say it can't hurt
764 2012-01-12 17:07:15 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: press saying "Bitcoin tries to stop scammers from abusing it" is even better
765 2012-01-12 17:07:28 <k9quaint> the only thing to be had from solidcoin drama is schadenfreude
766 2012-01-12 17:07:40 <gavinandresen> wow, big word!
767 2012-01-12 17:07:55 <gavinandresen> "a big vocabulary is neat"
768 2012-01-12 17:08:18 <luke-jr> lol
769 2012-01-12 17:08:19 <sipa> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9B-ZoS0wvU
770 2012-01-12 17:08:20 <k9quaint> gavin is making fun of me ;(
771 2012-01-12 17:08:27 <k9quaint> my day started off so well too
772 2012-01-12 17:08:41 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: btw, 0.5.2 is just waiting on your Mac buildâ¦
773 2012-01-12 17:08:49 <k9quaint> supermodel dream iteration #12,876
774 2012-01-12 17:08:52 <gmaxwell> well, it's the right word.
775 2012-01-12 17:08:57 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: and uploads to SF
776 2012-01-12 17:09:06 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: oh, yeah, I forgot, I uploaded a mac build last night to sourceforge. Where are the repackaged linux/pc builds?
777 2012-01-12 17:09:18 <gavinandresen> ... and did anybody reproduce Matt's gitian builds?
778 2012-01-12 17:09:20 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: you want me to repkg them?
779 2012-01-12 17:09:23 <luke-jr> not afaik
780 2012-01-12 17:09:24 <gavinandresen> (my gitian machine is having networking issues)
781 2012-01-12 17:09:28 <luke-jr> I trust BlueMatt <.<
782 2012-01-12 17:10:06 <gavinandresen> I trust that BlueMatt is honest, but when it comes to binary releases I think it is good to be paranoid
783 2012-01-12 17:10:37 <k9quaint> that depends on how fast you can monetize trojan code :P
784 2012-01-12 17:10:37 <gavinandresen> (I'd much rather somebody double-checked my builds so make sure I haven't unknowingly been infected with some malicious malware)
785 2012-01-12 17:10:53 <luke-jr> k9quaint: wanna build them? :P
786 2012-01-12 17:11:00 <k9quaint> luke-jr: not in the slightest
787 2012-01-12 17:11:17 <nanobyte> As a new user i'm happy to read that gavinandresen, thank you for that
788 2012-01-12 17:11:35 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: if you could upload http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/bitcoind-0.4.3/ while I repkg 0.5.2, that'd help too
789 2012-01-12 17:11:53 <k9quaint> nanobyte: he is only saying it for your benefit, as soon as you leave, he will revert to normal
790 2012-01-12 17:12:08 <nanobyte> Heheh
791 2012-01-12 17:12:15 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: sorry, I'm not going to spend the time on new-old releases
792 2012-01-12 17:12:16 <devrandom> gavinandresen: I can build... which version?
793 2012-01-12 17:12:42 <gavinandresen> devrandom: luke-jr's 0.5.2rc1 gitorious branch.
794 2012-01-12 17:12:44 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: not even just uploading so it doesn't waste my bw?
795 2012-01-12 17:12:50 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: 0.5.2 final⦠O.o
796 2012-01-12 17:13:23 <devrandom> ok, didn't realize that BlueMatt was building the stable branch
797 2012-01-12 17:13:27 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: no, sorry, it is a pain in my ass to download and then upload everything.
798 2012-01-12 17:13:47 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: don't suppose you want to add me to SF for uploading?
799 2012-01-12 17:14:11 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: sorry, I don't trust you that much.
800 2012-01-12 17:14:23 <k9quaint> luke-jr: did you really swear under penalty of perjury?
801 2012-01-12 17:14:52 hexTech has joined
802 2012-01-12 17:14:56 <luke-jr> k9quaint: sure, why not?
803 2012-01-12 17:14:57 user has joined
804 2012-01-12 17:15:01 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: who else can upload?
805 2012-01-12 17:15:26 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: 0.5.2 Linux bin @ http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/bitcoind-0.5.2
806 2012-01-12 17:15:27 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: let me check...
807 2012-01-12 17:15:28 <luke-jr> err
808 2012-01-12 17:15:30 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: 0.5.2 Linux bin @ http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/bitcoin-0.5.2
809 2012-01-12 17:16:56 <devrandom> luke-jr: where is your repo?
810 2012-01-12 17:17:01 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: jgarzik and laszlo and nanotube and Satoshi and sirius-m have Release permission
811 2012-01-12 17:17:32 <luke-jr> devrandom: git://gitorious.org/+bitcoin-stable-developers/bitcoin/bitcoind-stable.git
812 2012-01-12 17:17:50 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: k
813 2012-01-12 17:17:51 Nicksasa has quit (Read error: No route to host)
814 2012-01-12 17:18:11 slush has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
815 2012-01-12 17:20:02 user has quit (Quit: Leaving)
816 2012-01-12 17:20:16 Joric has quit ()
817 2012-01-12 17:21:07 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: btw, the Linux bin 0.5.2 just finished upload
818 2012-01-12 17:21:23 <luke-jr> in case you already started that dl, you might want to verify it completed correct
819 2012-01-12 17:23:51 <devrandom> luke-jr: are stable version #s distinct from main version #s? i.e. will there never be a main 0.5.2?
820 2012-01-12 17:24:06 <luke-jr> devrandom: next `master' version is 0.6
821 2012-01-12 17:24:40 <devrandom> ok... just trying to figure out if I should append -stable when I release my gitian signature
822 2012-01-12 17:24:47 <luke-jr> no
823 2012-01-12 17:24:57 hexTech has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
824 2012-01-12 17:25:30 Nicksasa has joined
825 2012-01-12 17:26:07 hexTech has joined
826 2012-01-12 17:26:50 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: 0.5.2 Win32 Setup is done
827 2012-01-12 17:27:18 <luke-jr> and ZIP too
828 2012-01-12 17:27:23 caedes_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
829 2012-01-12 17:27:37 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: there *is* a README.txt in that dir, but Apache doesn't list it
830 2012-01-12 17:30:39 <nanobyte> Laughs at the idea that RealSolid maybe in here incognito, spying and stealing all of bitcoins design ideas
831 2012-01-12 17:30:42 <nanobyte> =P
832 2012-01-12 17:31:02 <sipa> nanobyte: he can
833 2012-01-12 17:31:31 <luke-jr> nanotube: oh, you're here too? :P
834 2012-01-12 17:31:37 <nanotube> it is foss after all, nanobyte :)
835 2012-01-12 17:31:42 <nanotube> luke-jr: yes, i'm everywhere! P
836 2012-01-12 17:31:45 <nanotube> :P
837 2012-01-12 17:31:58 <nanotube> gavinandresen: what's this i hear about uploading 0.4.3?
838 2012-01-12 17:31:59 <luke-jr> nanotube: read backscroll 20 mins ago
839 2012-01-12 17:34:17 <nanotube> luke-jr: yea i see. just want to get gavin's official "ok to upload this to sf.net frs"
840 2012-01-12 17:34:32 <nanotube> luke-jr: also, the sha1sums references a readme.txt - but it's not on your site
841 2012-01-12 17:34:46 <nanotube> ah, apache
842 2012-01-12 17:34:47 <nanotube> heh
843 2012-01-12 17:34:54 <luke-jr> nanotube: it's SHA256, should it be SHA1?
844 2012-01-12 17:35:17 <nanotube> luke-jr: well, call it sha2sums or sha256sums
845 2012-01-12 17:35:28 <nanotube> usually said sums files let you know what they are via file name
846 2012-01-12 17:35:42 <nanotube> i'm so used to it that i called yours sha1sums when it's actually shasums heh
847 2012-01-12 17:35:56 <luke-jr> nanotube: renamed
848 2012-01-12 17:36:11 <luke-jr> (I called it SHASUMS cuz that's what was on old releasesâ¦)
849 2012-01-12 17:36:22 <nanotube> but anyway, how would i get the readme?
850 2012-01-12 17:36:26 <nanotube> just edit url?
851 2012-01-12 17:36:28 <luke-jr> nanotube: type it in the URI? :P
852 2012-01-12 17:36:37 <nanotube> ah yep it works :)
853 2012-01-12 17:37:12 <nanotube> care to make the readme a gpg-clearsigned file? ;)
854 2012-01-12 17:37:27 <luke-jr> it has never been before⦠:P
855 2012-01-12 17:37:31 <nanotube> or maybe the shasums one
856 2012-01-12 17:37:35 <luke-jr> okâ¦
857 2012-01-12 17:38:37 <luke-jr> done
858 2012-01-12 17:40:44 <epscy> luke-jr: yandere
859 2012-01-12 17:42:19 <gavinandresen> nanotube: I think uploading "new old" releases to sourceforge is a bad idea. What do you think?
860 2012-01-12 17:42:27 Nicksasa has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
861 2012-01-12 17:43:05 * luke-jr thinks of them as "new stable"
862 2012-01-12 17:43:36 <gavinandresen> Well, I think it is failed experiment: bitcoin0.4.1 has a grand total of 274 downloads.
863 2012-01-12 17:44:04 <gavinandresen> ... as opposed to bitcoin-0.5.1 which has 37,0000
864 2012-01-12 17:44:22 <luke-jr> hmm
865 2012-01-12 17:45:00 egecko has joined
866 2012-01-12 17:45:03 <gavinandresen> Not worth the time or risk to upload/support anything besides latest-release-candidate and, maybe, latest-bugfixed-previous
867 2012-01-12 17:46:08 <nanotube> gavinandresen: i figure if people want them, they can have them. as long as the site clearly states which is the latest officially supported release?
868 2012-01-12 17:46:25 Joric has joined
869 2012-01-12 17:46:57 <gavinandresen> nanotube: okey doke, but I'm not going to spend time auditing or gpg signing them.
870 2012-01-12 17:46:59 <nanotube> that said, given the low number of users, probably not that important either way. so whatever you say goes.
871 2012-01-12 17:47:32 <nanotube> well, it seems that luke is pretty much the sole auditor ?
872 2012-01-12 17:47:46 <luke-jr> I'd honestly almost figure stick to just git tags, but Win/Mac users "need" binaries
873 2012-01-12 17:48:01 <nanotube> should win/mac users even be using those? :)
874 2012-01-12 17:48:13 <luke-jr> nanotube: only for servers :p
875 2012-01-12 17:48:34 <nanotube> luke-jr: as i said, should win/mac users be using those? haha
876 2012-01-12 17:49:07 <luke-jr> nanotube: better than them using 0.4.1 or (0.5.x when they don't need its features) :p
877 2012-01-12 17:49:19 <luke-jr> 137 of them apparently
878 2012-01-12 17:49:40 <nanotube> 137 is for all packages, not just win/mac. let's see ...
879 2012-01-12 17:49:48 <luke-jr> nanotube: no, I counted Windows there :P
880 2012-01-12 17:50:05 <luke-jr> I figure so long as someone's willing to provide binaries, can't hurt to make them available
881 2012-01-12 17:50:14 <devrandom> luke-jr: gitorious is being slow, I will check on my build later
882 2012-01-12 17:50:19 <luke-jr> I'll let BlueMatt decide if 137 Windows users justifies continuing them
883 2012-01-12 17:50:30 <luke-jr> for now, he did make 0.4.3 bins
884 2012-01-12 17:51:33 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: anyhow, on 0.5.2, you built rc1 for some reason⦠can that just be renamed or no?
885 2012-01-12 17:51:42 <luke-jr> dunno how DMGs work inside :P
886 2012-01-12 17:51:58 <nanotube> luke-jr: i see.
887 2012-01-12 17:52:10 <Backburn> uh we just mined a block with a 86.46790938 reward :O
888 2012-01-12 17:52:22 <Backburn> thats alot of tx fees
889 2012-01-12 17:52:27 <nanotube> gavinandresen: so i guess the question is, are you ok with luke-signed and luke-audited binaries on bitcoin sf.net frs? :)
890 2012-01-12 17:52:28 <luke-jr> Backburn: :o
891 2012-01-12 17:52:37 <nanotube> Backburn: nice!
892 2012-01-12 17:52:39 <gavinandresen> nanotube: no, I'm not
893 2012-01-12 17:53:05 <gavinandresen> nanotube: I'm not ok with any release that is signed/audited by one person
894 2012-01-12 17:53:07 <nanotube> gavinandresen: well, then that answers the question of whether i should be uploading them, doesn't it? ;)
895 2012-01-12 17:53:26 * luke-jr notes 100% of the commits in 0.4.3 are audited as part of master already
896 2012-01-12 17:53:37 <gmaxwell> 09:48 < gavinandresen> nanotube: I'm not ok with any release that is signed/audited by one person
897 2012-01-12 17:53:40 <gmaxwell> *1000
898 2012-01-12 17:53:48 <gmaxwell> It's not a matter of trust, your machine could be compromised.
899 2012-01-12 17:54:03 <sipa> or the gpg key could be
900 2012-01-12 17:54:15 <gavinandresen> ... and this whole discussion makes me wonder if we should be removing old releases from sourceforge, or somehow marking them as "we haven't looked at these in a long time, no guarantees that they haven't been messed with, double-check signatures and beware"
901 2012-01-12 17:54:15 <luke-jr> nanotube: also, BlueMatt built 0.4.3, not me, and IIRC devrandom is building it now
902 2012-01-12 17:54:57 <devrandom> I'm building 0.5.2
903 2012-01-12 17:55:01 <luke-jr> devrandom: ah, ok
904 2012-01-12 17:55:01 <devrandom> should I be building 0.4.3?
905 2012-01-12 17:55:07 <luke-jr> devrandom: 0.5.2 is more important
906 2012-01-12 17:55:16 <gavinandresen> The risk is that somebody manages to corrupt/replace a seldom-downloaded binary at sourceforge, and it isn't noticed because almost nobody is looking.
907 2012-01-12 17:55:27 <nanotube> luke-jr: ah i see. gavinandresen if the git repos are checked and releases are signed off by bluematt and/or devrandom, does that work?
908 2012-01-12 17:55:30 <devrandom> I'll do both
909 2012-01-12 17:55:33 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: maybe move them to an archive dir?
910 2012-01-12 17:55:35 <nanotube> gavinandresen: well, the shasums files are signed.
911 2012-01-12 17:55:37 <devrandom> once gitorious is unwedged
912 2012-01-12 17:55:53 <gmaxwell> nanotube: but ~no one checks the signatures
913 2012-01-12 17:56:00 <nanotube> gmaxwell: i always do.
914 2012-01-12 17:56:03 <gavinandresen> nanotube: yup, but most people who download will rely on the early-adopting geeks who actually check the signatures to make sure they're OK
915 2012-01-12 17:56:20 <nanotube> gavinandresen: those people should be downloading the latest and greatest by default, anyway
916 2012-01-12 17:56:27 <gmaxwell> nanotube: Want to take a bet that if we put up an old binary with an invalid sig that no one will report it?
917 2012-01-12 17:56:31 <nanotube> only the 'geeks' should be getting the old releases.
918 2012-01-12 17:56:38 <luke-jr> total of 48 downloads of SHASUMS.asc for 0.5.1 :p
919 2012-01-12 17:56:47 <gmaxwell> ^ see
920 2012-01-12 17:56:47 <nanotube> one of them is mine :D
921 2012-01-12 17:57:07 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: what percentage is that?
922 2012-01-12 17:57:17 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: 0? :P
923 2012-01-12 17:57:27 <nanotube> i both checked the gpg sig on the shasums, and the shasum of the archive
924 2012-01-12 17:57:34 slush has joined
925 2012-01-12 17:57:39 <gmaxwell> nanotube: you're also not downloading long ago released old files.
926 2012-01-12 17:57:44 <nanotube> gmaxwell: true. :)
927 2012-01-12 17:58:05 <nanotube> horse, water, drink....
928 2012-01-12 17:58:18 <gmaxwell> I have some confidence that the process works for recent releases. I check them too. (thats why I'd whined about not being able to validate gavin's key)
929 2012-01-12 17:58:24 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: anyhow, on 0.5.2, you built rc1 for some reason⦠can that just be renamed or not so simple?
930 2012-01-12 17:58:35 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: there were no code changes
931 2012-01-12 17:58:58 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: Yes, it can be renamed
932 2012-01-12 17:59:03 <devrandom> with the gitian downloader end-user don't have to manually check sigs...
933 2012-01-12 17:59:30 <nanotube> speaking of validation... should bitcoin-qt maybe contain an (optional!) automatic updater, that does check sigs?
934 2012-01-12 18:00:06 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: OK, I guess ping me and https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/pull/13 when the uploads for 0.5.2 are done then
935 2012-01-12 18:00:12 <imsaguy2> mmm, autoupdate
936 2012-01-12 18:00:17 <imsaguy2> +1 nanotube
937 2012-01-12 18:00:22 <gmaxwell> nanotube: -1
938 2012-01-12 18:00:30 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: do you want me to pastebin the forum release announcement, so you can post it, or just post it myself?
939 2012-01-12 18:00:46 <gmaxwell> Well, if the gitian stuff gets the naks stuff then perhaps. :)
940 2012-01-12 18:00:54 <luke-jr> nanotube: I'd rather see it have a backup function
941 2012-01-12 18:01:16 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: how can 0.5.2 be a final release if there were no release candidate binaries released?
942 2012-01-12 18:01:57 <devrandom> gmaxwell: ok :)
943 2012-01-12 18:02:16 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: there were, just not uploaded :p
944 2012-01-12 18:02:20 <luke-jr> and not Mac
945 2012-01-12 18:02:43 <gavinandresen> if they weren't uploaded then how were they tested?
946 2012-01-12 18:03:24 <luke-jr> random people on IRC
947 2012-01-12 18:04:03 <gavinandresen> I'm not comfortable announcing a new release unless it's had at least a week of testing AFTER rc binaries are available and announced
948 2012-01-12 18:04:37 <gavinandresen> Like I said, when it comes to releasing binaries I'm paranoid.
949 2012-01-12 18:04:39 * luke-jr notes the original plan was to release 0.5.2 without any RCs at all.. O.o
950 2012-01-12 18:04:54 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: meh, lets just get this announced then
951 2012-01-12 18:05:12 abragin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
952 2012-01-12 18:05:17 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: ?
953 2012-01-12 18:05:28 user has joined
954 2012-01-12 18:05:51 <gmaxwell> I mean, there is no point arguing about it. A wide announcement of an RC is almost as good as a full release announcement.
955 2012-01-12 18:06:01 Nicksasa has joined
956 2012-01-12 18:06:39 <luke-jr> 33 files changed, 231 insertions(+), 135 deletions(-)
957 2012-01-12 18:06:44 <luke-jr> ^ mostly typo and version bumping :p
958 2012-01-12 18:06:52 <gmaxwell> There are some p2pool users who were seeing deadlocks in 0.5.1 that don't appear to happen in githead. I'd like to get them to try 0.5.2(rc) but I didn't care to link people to a @#$@ dropbox url.
959 2012-01-12 18:07:09 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I'd agree, but 0.5.2 is already tagged for a few days now anyway
960 2012-01-12 18:07:10 TD_ has joined
961 2012-01-12 18:07:13 <imsaguy2> then use megaupload :p
962 2012-01-12 18:07:19 <luke-jr> imsaguy2: even worse :P
963 2012-01-12 18:07:22 * gmaxwell slaps imsaguy2 with a trout
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967 2012-01-12 18:07:26 <imsaguy2> I know, I was joking
968 2012-01-12 18:07:50 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: maybe upload them all to 'test' dir then?
969 2012-01-12 18:08:09 <imsaguy2> devrandom: its nice to have a 'name' to a 'nick'
970 2012-01-12 18:08:12 <luke-jr> and move them/update bitcoin.org after you're happy with the length of testing
971 2012-01-12 18:08:29 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: they need to be renamed 'rc1' and the tar needs to be repackaged....
972 2012-01-12 18:09:03 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: you can't assume that there will not be a rc2 after more testing
973 2012-01-12 18:09:26 <gavinandresen> (well, I suppose you COULD assume, but you shouldn't)
974 2012-01-12 18:09:27 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: there has already been v0.5.2 final for days now.
975 2012-01-12 18:10:16 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: the original plan when we discussed it days ago was to do v0.5.2 without any RCs, but I wanted to at least give it a few days testing so I slapped a rc1 on it firstâ¦
976 2012-01-12 18:10:30 <gavinandresen> who is "we" ?
977 2012-01-12 18:10:34 TD has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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979 2012-01-12 18:10:40 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: everyone discussing it at the time, I think you were there?
980 2012-01-12 18:11:50 <gavinandresen> I remember saying I wanted to spend as little time as possible on a 0.5.2 release, but I'd be happy to create a mac build.
981 2012-01-12 18:12:03 <gavinandresen> (I PERSONALLY wanted to spend as little time as possible)
982 2012-01-12 18:12:32 <gavinandresen> I don't remember ever agreeing to short-cutting the release process.
983 2012-01-12 18:12:40 <luke-jr> looks like there was no mention of RCs until I mentioned tagging it and I got a 'wait, are these rcs or stables?' from BlueMatt :P
984 2012-01-12 18:13:02 <luke-jr> doc/release-process.txt doesn't document anything relating to RCs ;)
985 2012-01-12 18:13:02 riush has joined
986 2012-01-12 18:14:03 <luke-jr> I suppose we could upload rc1, and simply never upload 0.5.2 if there's a major problem
987 2012-01-12 18:14:15 <luke-jr> that seems like more work in the probable "no problem" case though
988 2012-01-12 18:15:12 <gmaxwell> every moment spent discussing this is another moment people won't be testing the software. :)
989 2012-01-12 18:15:54 p0s has joined
990 2012-01-12 18:15:58 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell++
991 2012-01-12 18:17:40 Kolky has joined
992 2012-01-12 18:17:43 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: re-zipping everything as 'rc1' takes time
993 2012-01-12 18:17:51 <luke-jr> as does re-uploading it
994 2012-01-12 18:18:05 <luke-jr> progress @ http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/bitcoin-0.5.2rc1/
995 2012-01-12 18:18:18 <nanobyte> Feel like i'm a part of history, watching it go down before a big release that thousands to ten of thousands of people may start using :)
996 2012-01-12 18:19:55 jacobwg has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
997 2012-01-12 18:20:07 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: rc1 linux done
998 2012-01-12 18:20:19 <nanotube> luke-jr: well... i guess you just get to keep the 0.4.x releases on your server. or create a separate project on sourceforge to house them, if you're concerned about bandwidth.
999 2012-01-12 18:20:44 <luke-jr> nanotube: devrandom will be a second signer soon
1000 2012-01-12 18:21:01 <nanotube> ah well we'll revisit with gavin then. :)
1001 2012-01-12 18:21:49 dvide_ has joined
1002 2012-01-12 18:22:05 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: to your .4 builds include the gui too?
1003 2012-01-12 18:22:20 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: there's a GUI binary in them, but completely unsupported
1004 2012-01-12 18:22:27 <gmaxwell> if so then we have something to point people who whine about -qt at. :)
1005 2012-01-12 18:22:36 toffoo has quit ()
1006 2012-01-12 18:22:53 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: there was like 50 unresolved wxBitcoin bugs closed by the switch to Qt ;)
1007 2012-01-12 18:23:32 dvide has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1008 2012-01-12 18:26:54 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: BlueMatt + devrandom good enough for 0.4.3 that under 300 people will download? :P
1009 2012-01-12 18:27:19 <diki> well...64bit cgminer is working...
1010 2012-01-12 18:27:34 <diki> with the exception that it crashes
1011 2012-01-12 18:27:40 <diki> reason is localtime_r
1012 2012-01-12 18:31:43 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/bitcoin-0.5.2rc1/ is now complete
1013 2012-01-12 18:31:57 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: obviously you should be able to skip the Mac build you did
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1015 2012-01-12 18:37:41 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: downloading now, will upload to SF when done. Can you upload the release announcement as README.txt ?
1016 2012-01-12 18:38:13 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: README.txt exists, but Apache hides it in the index for some reason; I have a separate one for the forum post, formatted with forum-markupâ¦
1017 2012-01-12 18:38:39 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: ok, got the README.txt
1018 2012-01-12 18:38:45 m00p has joined
1019 2012-01-12 18:38:55 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: README.bb uploaded
1020 2012-01-12 18:39:03 <luke-jr> Apache is hiding it as well
1021 2012-01-12 18:39:06 <luke-jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/bitcoin-0.5.2rc1/README.bb
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1040 2012-01-12 19:41:14 <amiller> this is my favorite paper of the day http://www.cs.ru.nl/~wouters/Publications/HoareLogicStateMonad.pdf roconnor
1041 2012-01-12 19:42:39 b4epoche_ has joined
1042 2012-01-12 19:42:43 <roconnor> amiller: I'm glad you are creating formal semantics for bitcoin
1043 2012-01-12 19:43:05 m00p has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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1046 2012-01-12 19:46:06 <copumpkin> me too!
1047 2012-01-12 19:46:23 <copumpkin> feel free to run ideas by me
1048 2012-01-12 19:46:31 <copumpkin> not that I'll necessarily have much to add :P
1049 2012-01-12 19:46:37 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
1050 2012-01-12 19:46:48 enquirer has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1051 2012-01-12 19:47:03 <amiller> well thank you, to be honest i can't fairly say i'm expecting to get too far... but i feel like i may be approaching a proof of concept that could help explain why it's a good idea and what could be gained from it though.
1052 2012-01-12 19:47:20 enquirer has joined
1053 2012-01-12 19:47:35 <copumpkin> yeah
1054 2012-01-12 19:47:53 <copumpkin> realistically, I'd expect formalizing the language to be a lot easier for now than trying to talk about the security of the system
1055 2012-01-12 19:47:59 <copumpkin> for all the reasons I've outlined in here before :P
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1057 2012-01-12 19:55:31 PK is now known as Dinner!~PK@pdpc/supporter/active/pk|PK
1058 2012-01-12 19:55:31 <CIA-100> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r4ff56b8 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Add -dt argument for debug timer, quits after 1 min - http://git.io/u2W7Fw https://github.com/Diablo-D3/DiabloMiner/commit/4ff56b84418adf1cf7783e4a4dbbff1762f85c8f
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1063 2012-01-12 20:15:05 <roconnor> amiller: In particular I'm happy you are getting some leverage out of my haskell code, which was sort of meant as a first step to formalization.
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1075 2012-01-12 20:39:32 <CIA-100> bitcoin: various coinbaser * r214c1a..d237f6 bitcoind-personal/src/ (bitcoinrpc.cpp init.cpp main.h main.cpp): (7 commits) http://tinyurl.com/3lrgdkn
1076 2012-01-12 20:42:55 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1077 2012-01-12 20:44:11 <luke-jr> ^ rebased coinbaser and cleaned it up a little in safe ways
1078 2012-01-12 20:44:27 <luke-jr> (really only 5 commits now)
1079 2012-01-12 20:45:28 RazielZ has joined
1080 2012-01-12 20:45:43 <edcba> ;;bc,mtgox
1081 2012-01-12 20:45:44 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":6.997,"low":6.337,"avg":6.747029723,"vwap":6.741597432,"vol":128779,"last_all":6.7757,"last_local":6.7757,"last":6.7757,"buy":6.70632,"sell":6.76963}}
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1085 2012-01-12 20:57:26 <riush> in a multisig script, is the order of signatures relevant? or, when i run the script, can i know which sig belongs to which key?
1086 2012-01-12 20:59:48 paraipan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1087 2012-01-12 21:00:06 <riush> or do i have to try all combinations and see if one is valid?
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1097 2012-01-12 21:05:13 <CIA-100> bitcoin: various next-test * r64346a..6af708 bitcoind-personal/ (13 files in 3 dirs): (12 commits) http://tinyurl.com/7vr93zh
1098 2012-01-12 21:14:51 <CIA-100> bitcoin: various next-test * r3b70dd..9a93c4 bitcoind-personal/ (31 files in 6 dirs): (15 commits) http://tinyurl.com/7vr93zh
1099 2012-01-12 21:15:00 <sipa> riush: the order is important, yes
1100 2012-01-12 21:16:09 <gavinandresen> riush: the order of signatures must match the order of the public keys.
1101 2012-01-12 21:16:15 jacobwg has joined
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1103 2012-01-12 21:16:43 <riush> ah okay, thank you
1104 2012-01-12 21:17:54 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: did you post README.bb somewhere? or were you waiting for me to do it? (or somethign else?)
1105 2012-01-12 21:19:29 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: I didn't post README.bb anywhere-- but I'm not waiting for anything, I'm not spearheading the release.....
1106 2012-01-12 21:20:36 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: OK, I just wanted to be sure I didn't step on your toes or anything; I'll post it then
1107 2012-01-12 21:21:01 <luke-jr> do RCs usually go on Dev or Discussion?
1108 2012-01-12 21:21:13 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: dev
1109 2012-01-12 21:21:46 <gavinandresen> ... then watch the download stats on sourceforge (are they visible to everybody?)
1110 2012-01-12 21:22:34 <gavinandresen> And assuming you get a reasonable number of downloads over the weekend and no reports of "it is worse than before" then it can go final
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1112 2012-01-12 21:25:06 <luke-jr> aha, that's the problem with "random people on IRC" testing - no headcount
1113 2012-01-12 21:26:10 <gmaxwell> I just asked people in #p2pool to deploy the rc.
1114 2012-01-12 21:26:28 <midnightmagic> is there a reason other than testing to deploy rc?
1115 2012-01-12 21:26:31 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
1116 2012-01-12 21:26:39 <sipa> luke-jr: in coinbaser, when the command fails, you resize the coinbase to length 1?
1117 2012-01-12 21:27:00 <luke-jr> sipa: no? returning should be an error code thereâ¦
1118 2012-01-12 21:27:16 <luke-jr> oh, that
1119 2012-01-12 21:27:27 <luke-jr> yes, if anything fails, there is 1 vout for the coinbase
1120 2012-01-12 21:27:29 <sipa> if (rv) { ... ->resize(1); }
1121 2012-01-12 21:27:38 <sipa> oh, of course
1122 2012-01-12 21:28:01 <luke-jr> I'm super-paranoid about making invalid blocks ;)
1123 2012-01-12 21:28:16 <sipa> you should be
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1125 2012-01-12 21:29:24 <luke-jr> sipa: and yes, just about every error condition has been tested at some point with Eligius ;)
1126 2012-01-12 21:29:39 <luke-jr> I think I even have a real-world block out there in some cases
1127 2012-01-12 21:30:04 <gavinandresen> Do you'all keep random .cpp files in your bitcoin/src directory? I'm tempted to replace the explicit list of .cpp files in the makefiles with a $(wildcard *.cpp)
1128 2012-01-12 21:31:06 <sipa> luke-jr: for TCP coinbaser, you still use pclose() ?
1129 2012-01-12 21:32:13 <sipa> gavinandresen: i often have old/new .cpp files remaining there yes - a wildcard would break compiles then
1130 2012-01-12 21:32:28 <sipa> but maybe that's a sign then that i should clean up my source tree
1131 2012-01-12 21:32:30 occulta has joined
1132 2012-01-12 21:33:12 <gavinandresen> sipa: I guess there is a very small risk of putting an extra .cpp on a build machine and having extra code end up in the binary....
1133 2012-01-12 21:33:38 <gavinandresen> the HEADERS definition in the makefiles is no longer used, I'll get rid of it.
1134 2012-01-12 21:33:46 <occulta> hey, can anyone tell me how much BW the daemon uses daily ?
1135 2012-01-12 21:34:31 <luke-jr> sipa: hmm, I'm not sure why that works⦠I should probably not do it that way.
1136 2012-01-12 21:35:13 <sipa> luke-jr: i believe on many systems pclose and fclose are the same, but i wouldn't count on it
1137 2012-01-12 21:35:23 <luke-jr> k, I'll fix thatâ¦
1138 2012-01-12 21:35:39 <luke-jr> I'll check if Windows needs something special too
1139 2012-01-12 21:36:12 <gavinandresen> Speaking of windows... anybody know if makefile.vc actually works? I'm tempted to remove it unless somebody volunteers to maintain it
1140 2012-01-12 21:36:25 paraipan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1142 2012-01-12 21:38:12 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: I think it doesn't.
1143 2012-01-12 21:38:21 osearth has joined
1144 2012-01-12 21:38:22 <luke-jr> someone here complained the other day IIRC
1145 2012-01-12 21:38:34 <sipa> gavinandresen: i didn't add key.o, netbase.o or rpcdump.o to it recently
1146 2012-01-12 21:38:46 <sipa> so at least for 0.5.99 it never worked
1147 2012-01-12 21:39:02 <gavinandresen> I'll remove it, and when somebody complains that somebody can volunteer to fix/maintain it
1148 2012-01-12 21:39:27 osearth_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1149 2012-01-12 21:39:35 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr getmininginfo * r39fcc89a3c16 bitcoind-personal/src/bitcoinrpc.cpp: Remove 'generate', 'genproclimit', and 'hashespersec' from 'getinfo' entirely http://tinyurl.com/7c6bren
1150 2012-01-12 21:39:51 <makomk> Maybe older than that? SolidCoin is the only user of VC++ I can think of, and they appear to have dumped it. (Also they're a fork and don't care what Bitcoin does but it's an indicator...)
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1152 2012-01-12 21:44:23 <occulta> anyone here doing projects?
1153 2012-01-12 21:44:29 <occulta> offering dev services etc?
1154 2012-01-12 21:45:05 <sipa> occulta: want to pay for something? :)
1155 2012-01-12 21:45:19 <nanotube> occulta: a bunch of people are working on stuff. if you have anything you want done, post an offer. :)
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1161 2012-01-12 21:51:46 <luke-jr> sipa: fixed
1162 2012-01-12 21:51:55 <luke-jr> sipa: Windows *did* need some extra cleanup too!
1163 2012-01-12 21:52:50 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: someone in #bitcoin wants a PowerPC Mac build; can you do that?
1164 2012-01-12 21:52:59 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: nope
1165 2012-01-12 21:53:10 <gavinandresen> ppc is the wrong endian
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1167 2012-01-12 21:53:43 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: ouch
1168 2012-01-12 21:53:45 Visalleras has quit (Quit: http://driedleaves.no-ip.org)
1169 2012-01-12 21:53:48 <sipa> luke-jr: according to the documentation (at least on my ubuntu system) of fdopen(), fclose() will close the file descriptor as well
1170 2012-01-12 21:53:56 * luke-jr thought PPC was one of those that could change endian on demand :o
1171 2012-01-12 21:54:12 <sipa> but the extra closesocket call won't harm, and is perhaps needed on windows
1172 2012-01-12 21:54:12 <luke-jr> sipa: yes, but Windows has some extra work to fdopen a socket
1173 2012-01-12 21:54:21 <luke-jr> closesocket is a Windows-only thing
1174 2012-01-12 21:54:32 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr coinbaser * r24b5b5..785dfc bitcoind-personal/src/ (bitcoinrpc.cpp init.cpp main.h main.cpp): (5 commits) http://tinyurl.com/3lrgdkn
1175 2012-01-12 21:54:44 nanobyte has joined
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1182 2012-01-12 22:00:47 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r025d495 / (5 files): Remove broken Visual C++ makefile.vc, and removed annoying HEADERS= list from other makefiles - http://git.io/MxltWg https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/025d495481f2313a1550d8d101415ff3e3a6b89f
1183 2012-01-12 22:02:02 safra has quit (Client Quit)
1184 2012-01-12 22:08:50 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
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1186 2012-01-12 22:18:21 <luke-jr> FWIW, Mac user confirms 0.5.2 has a performance improvemnet loading on Mac
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1192 2012-01-12 22:30:28 <gmaxwell> \0/
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1198 2012-01-12 22:34:03 <occulta> hey, can someone link me to a good resource for running the daemon on a server? ie, things like should i create a specific new UNIX user expecially for it?
1199 2012-01-12 22:36:01 <freewil> occulta, yes run it as it's own user
1200 2012-01-12 22:36:16 <freewil> here's some security-related suggestions: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/1358/business-grade-bitcoind-implementation
1201 2012-01-12 22:36:44 <occulta> thanks alot
1202 2012-01-12 22:46:59 jacobwg has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
1203 2012-01-12 22:48:11 <occulta> freewil: does that mean i need to SSH in as that user to start the daemon?
1204 2012-01-12 22:48:44 <sipa> su will suffice
1205 2012-01-12 22:48:58 <occulta> ah ok
1206 2012-01-12 22:49:13 <freewil> i think youd end up doing sudo su -u username
1207 2012-01-12 22:49:17 <occulta> any more references around? all i know what to do is ./bitcoind, and i am assuming that is not enough
1208 2012-01-12 22:49:30 <luke-jr> freewil: that's: sudo -u username
1209 2012-01-12 22:49:33 <occulta> ive checked the wiki, not much there really
1210 2012-01-12 22:49:50 <luke-jr> probably want -H too
1211 2012-01-12 22:50:01 <luke-jr> occulta: if you have a proper install, no ./
1212 2012-01-12 22:50:22 <occulta> proper install? of?
1213 2012-01-12 22:50:24 riush_ has joined
1214 2012-01-12 22:50:24 <luke-jr> bitcoind
1215 2012-01-12 22:50:33 <occulta> ah, i dont know
1216 2012-01-12 22:50:35 <occulta> i dont have anything atm :P
1217 2012-01-12 22:50:37 <luke-jr> ie, not built from source yourself
1218 2012-01-12 22:50:44 <pierce> probably ./bitcoind -daemon
1219 2012-01-12 22:50:44 <gmaxwell> sudo .. weird. Normally I'd just use su to run as a user.
1220 2012-01-12 22:50:58 <occulta> hmm, i was just going to download from bitcoin.org ?
1221 2012-01-12 22:51:07 <pierce> nono, sudo ./bitcoind :-D
1222 2012-01-12 22:51:09 <luke-jr> occulta: that's not the Linux way :p
1223 2012-01-12 22:51:21 <luke-jr> occulta: what OS?
1224 2012-01-12 22:51:28 <occulta> server is ubuntu
1225 2012-01-12 22:51:37 <luke-jr> occulta: the website has a link to Ubuntu PPA
1226 2012-01-12 22:51:50 <luke-jr> occulta: install bitcoind from that
1227 2012-01-12 22:51:56 <luke-jr> then just add a user and do
1228 2012-01-12 22:51:56 <occulta> no i think i will use the linux source? thats what i used on my local ubuntu install ?
1229 2012-01-12 22:52:04 <luke-jr> sudo -u YOURNEWUSER -H bitcoind -daemon
1230 2012-01-12 22:52:15 <luke-jr> occulta: you're not supposed to install from source
1231 2012-01-12 22:52:24 <occulta> o right
1232 2012-01-12 22:52:27 <luke-jr> source is for development :P
1233 2012-01-12 22:52:31 <occulta> erm
1234 2012-01-12 22:52:44 <occulta> im pretty sure i just downloaded the linux tarbell
1235 2012-01-12 22:52:48 <luke-jr> â¦
1236 2012-01-12 22:52:51 <luke-jr> well, then you did it wrong :P
1237 2012-01-12 22:52:54 <occulta> and do ./bin/64/bitcoin-qt
1238 2012-01-12 22:52:55 <occulta> locally
1239 2012-01-12 22:53:03 <occulta> is that bad?
1240 2012-01-12 22:53:12 <luke-jr> could be worse, but it's not the "right way"
1241 2012-01-12 22:53:14 <occulta> for the client that is
1242 2012-01-12 22:53:27 <luke-jr> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:bitcoin/bitcoin
1243 2012-01-12 22:53:29 <luke-jr> sudo apt-get update
1244 2012-01-12 22:53:33 <luke-jr> sudo apt-get install bitcoind
1245 2012-01-12 22:53:42 <luke-jr> useradd -m YOURNEWUSER
1246 2012-01-12 22:53:43 <luke-jr> sudo -u YOURNEWUSER -H bitcoind -daemon
1247 2012-01-12 22:53:54 <occulta> spooooon :)
1248 2012-01-12 22:54:08 <luke-jr> HOWEVER
1249 2012-01-12 22:54:13 <occulta> !
1250 2012-01-12 22:54:16 <luke-jr> it may be better to run bitcoind offline
1251 2012-01-12 22:54:22 <luke-jr> and just upload a .txt file of addresses to your server
1252 2012-01-12 22:54:31 <luke-jr> that way, if some hacker gets in, they don't rob you
1253 2012-01-12 22:54:47 <occulta> that sounds good, but im confused enough as it is lol
1254 2012-01-12 22:54:49 <luke-jr> depends what you need to be able to do
1255 2012-01-12 22:55:06 <occulta> i need to be able to accept BTC payments to an account based on my website
1256 2012-01-12 22:55:10 <occulta> and also withdrawals
1257 2012-01-12 22:55:15 <pierce> any given webapp is going to need getnewaddress etc
1258 2012-01-12 22:55:18 <occulta> also money only clears on teh website account when its confirmed
1259 2012-01-12 22:56:02 <luke-jr> pierce: if you just accept payments, you can make a database with addresses, and pull them out of there
1260 2012-01-12 22:56:10 <luke-jr> pierce: and refill the db from a secure location
1261 2012-01-12 22:56:26 <luke-jr> occulta: sounds like you need a full bitcoind local then
1262 2012-01-12 22:56:36 <occulta> so follow your steps ?
1263 2012-01-12 22:56:37 <luke-jr> occulta: but you also sound like you're not qualified to admin such an operation
1264 2012-01-12 22:56:42 <pierce> that added complexity would probably add more security issues than they would be addressing :-)
1265 2012-01-12 22:56:43 <luke-jr> occulta: so I suggest hiring someone
1266 2012-01-12 22:57:00 <occulta> well, i setup the VPS myself from ssh only
1267 2012-01-12 22:57:12 <luke-jr> pierce: impossible ;)
1268 2012-01-12 22:57:13 <occulta> no idea about the daemon though
1269 2012-01-12 22:57:27 <occulta> got ssl and such
1270 2012-01-12 22:57:28 <pierce> occulta: /ignore luke-jr
1271 2012-01-12 22:57:35 <occulta> i think ill be ok :)
1272 2012-01-12 22:57:43 <occulta> im not coding the site
1273 2012-01-12 22:57:45 <luke-jr> occulta: if you have a bitcoind running on your server (and it sounds like the service you want to provide requires itâ¦), you WILL be the target of crackers trying to break in
1274 2012-01-12 22:57:46 <occulta> hiring for that
1275 2012-01-12 22:57:56 <luke-jr> occulta: your #1 concern should be security
1276 2012-01-12 22:57:57 <occulta> yes, i love webappsec
1277 2012-01-12 22:58:00 <occulta> it is
1278 2012-01-12 22:58:02 <occulta> its my hobby :)
1279 2012-01-12 22:58:10 <luke-jr> occulta: you don't have the qualifications to secure it
1280 2012-01-12 22:58:16 <pierce> occulta: you real lcamtuf's new book :-D
1281 2012-01-12 22:58:19 <pierce> fun times
1282 2012-01-12 22:58:20 <occulta> hmm
1283 2012-01-12 22:58:25 <occulta> i dnot agree :)
1284 2012-01-12 22:58:47 <gmaxwell> if you think you're qualified, thats the first sign you're probably not. ;)
1285 2012-01-12 22:58:48 <occulta> got my iptables setup, fail2ban for BFs, mod_sec for apache, and mod_evasive
1286 2012-01-12 22:58:50 <luke-jr> occulta: if you need to ask how to install bitcoind as a new user, there's NO WAY you're qualified for the security required to run this
1287 2012-01-12 22:58:52 <occulta> alot of other bitrs
1288 2012-01-12 22:59:06 <pierce> phh apache
1289 2012-01-12 22:59:08 <occulta> why luke-jr because ive never read about it before, means im stupid at everything else?
1290 2012-01-12 22:59:12 <pierce> take a ride on the nginx train
1291 2012-01-12 22:59:21 <luke-jr> occulta: because installing stuff is the #1 most basic thing about using any OS
1292 2012-01-12 22:59:28 <sipa> occulta: no, but you clearly have some things to learn about unix system administration
1293 2012-01-12 22:59:37 <sipa> it has nothing to do with being stupid
1294 2012-01-12 22:59:40 <occulta> ive looked at engineX, stick with what i know
1295 2012-01-12 22:59:51 <pierce> nginx
1296 2012-01-12 22:59:54 * luke-jr facepalms
1297 2012-01-12 23:00:01 <occulta> lol
1298 2012-01-12 23:00:04 <occulta> way to annoy you :)
1299 2012-01-12 23:00:12 <luke-jr> occulta: what's this website you're going to setup?
1300 2012-01-12 23:00:16 <luke-jr> called?
1301 2012-01-12 23:00:21 <occulta> mysteriouswebsite.com
1302 2012-01-12 23:00:25 <luke-jr> no, really.
1303 2012-01-12 23:00:28 <occulta> :O
1304 2012-01-12 23:00:37 <pierce> occulta: also, just set it up, fix it later :-D learn by doing
1305 2012-01-12 23:00:56 <occulta> yes im just backing up and i will play, thought i would ask first
1306 2012-01-12 23:01:01 <occulta> seemed the right thing to do ;)
1307 2012-01-12 23:01:09 <luke-jr> pierce: if you thought MtGox and MyBitcoin problems were bad, you've no idea what you're encouragingâ¦
1308 2012-01-12 23:01:24 <pierce> I sell bitcoins through my website, and my friend runs a pool
1309 2012-01-12 23:01:28 <pierce> we've seen plenty :-)
1310 2012-01-12 23:01:57 <occulta> and sipa im quite happy running the daemon as another user,, and i assumed so
1311 2012-01-12 23:02:01 <luke-jr> occulta: if you can hire a web developer, you can hire a security expert.
1312 2012-01-12 23:02:13 <occulta> luke-jr: what security measure do i need to take
1313 2012-01-12 23:02:22 <luke-jr> occulta: I am not qualified as a security expert.
1314 2012-01-12 23:02:26 <occulta> i think im nearly covered
1315 2012-01-12 23:02:44 <occulta> ive tested the script i am using locally
1316 2012-01-12 23:02:56 <gmaxwell> haha
1317 2012-01-12 23:02:59 <occulta> i have nessus pro feed, and ive done 2 days of manual testing also
1318 2012-01-12 23:03:19 <pierce> nonono .. nessus..
1319 2012-01-12 23:03:20 <occulta> i have someone who can spend longer on it if needed
1320 2012-01-12 23:03:22 <gmaxwell> "But I tested it" ... all good compromise stories begin with this.
1321 2012-01-12 23:03:24 <occulta> thanks for your concern
1322 2012-01-12 23:03:28 <luke-jr> occulta: tell me where your site is and give me permission to attempt to break in, and I'll see about that⦠(do this at least once BEFORE you have money on it)
1323 2012-01-12 23:03:40 <occulta> i can do that myself luke-jr, thanks though
1324 2012-01-12 23:03:54 <gmaxwell> No, actually you can't. Thats the point.
1325 2012-01-12 23:03:57 <luke-jr> occulta: ever hear of Metasploit?
1326 2012-01-12 23:04:03 <occulta> yes
1327 2012-01-12 23:04:05 <gmaxwell> You're blind to the vulnerabilties you created.
1328 2012-01-12 23:04:13 <occulta> lol ok
1329 2012-01-12 23:04:16 <luke-jr> occulta: before I mentioned it just now?
1330 2012-01-12 23:04:17 <occulta> you know me so well :)
1331 2012-01-12 23:04:21 <occulta> rapid7
1332 2012-01-12 23:04:22 <occulta> ?
1333 2012-01-12 23:04:25 <riush_> everybody can build a security system that he cannot exploit himself
1334 2012-01-12 23:04:29 <occulta> they own it i think
1335 2012-01-12 23:04:33 <pierce> ya
1336 2012-01-12 23:04:37 <occulta> but im stupid
1337 2012-01-12 23:04:37 <pierce> well, they hired hdm :-)
1338 2012-01-12 23:04:45 <occulta> i hate him :)
1339 2012-01-12 23:04:54 <pierce> he's a nice guy
1340 2012-01-12 23:04:59 <occulta> sometimes lol
1341 2012-01-12 23:05:03 <pierce> total twitter troll though
1342 2012-01-12 23:05:03 <pierce> ha
1343 2012-01-12 23:05:14 <luke-jr> occulta: ok, all I want to know now is what this site you plan to run will be called
1344 2012-01-12 23:05:20 <luke-jr> so I can note it on my "never use" list
1345 2012-01-12 23:05:20 <egecko> question.
1346 2012-01-12 23:05:26 <occulta> i know you do, but its not 'live'
1347 2012-01-12 23:05:27 <occulta> so im not posting it :)
1348 2012-01-12 23:05:33 <pierce> luke-jr: you must sign NDA first
1349 2012-01-12 23:05:35 <luke-jr> I don't care if it's live or not.
1350 2012-01-12 23:05:35 <occulta> ill PM you when it is
1351 2012-01-12 23:05:38 <occulta> and i feel its secure enough
1352 2012-01-12 23:05:39 <egecko> say transaction volume suddenly spiked
1353 2012-01-12 23:05:41 <occulta> well i do
1354 2012-01-12 23:05:43 <pierce> luke-jr: it's probably a billion dollar idea
1355 2012-01-12 23:05:44 <occulta> deal with it :)
1356 2012-01-12 23:05:48 <egecko> what are the ramifications of that?
1357 2012-01-12 23:06:11 <occulta> no pierce lol
1358 2012-01-12 23:06:20 <egecko> should it take longer to discover a block?
1359 2012-01-12 23:06:28 <pierce> occulta: don't worry so much about security. you might get owned a couple times, but that's all part of learning
1360 2012-01-12 23:06:40 random_cat has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1361 2012-01-12 23:06:46 <occulta> im not :)
1362 2012-01-12 23:06:55 <occulta> i only asked how to run the daemon, its something ive never done
1363 2012-01-12 23:07:10 <pierce> ya, bitcoind -daemon
1364 2012-01-12 23:07:10 <occulta> i sorted of expected to be flamed
1365 2012-01-12 23:07:24 <pierce> that stackexchange is really good to, did you bookmark that?
1366 2012-01-12 23:07:25 <luke-jr> egecko: no affect
1367 2012-01-12 23:07:29 <luke-jr> effect*
1368 2012-01-12 23:07:44 <occulta> yes i did bookmark, and i will make sure all points are satisfied
1369 2012-01-12 23:07:51 <MacRohard> putting like 10000 keys into a database and refilling them later seems like a pretty good idea
1370 2012-01-12 23:07:53 <occulta> or at least try :)
1371 2012-01-12 23:08:00 Xunie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1372 2012-01-12 23:08:10 <gmaxwell> occulta: why did you 'expect to be flamed'?
1373 2012-01-12 23:08:13 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I want to cry.
1374 2012-01-12 23:08:32 <occulta> well, i read on the wiki ./bitcoind , seems a little simple
1375 2012-01-12 23:08:48 <occulta> i will read more, before asking more questions
1376 2012-01-12 23:08:56 <pierce> it was designed to be simple :-)
1377 2012-01-12 23:09:09 <pierce> a hell of a lot more simple than running a credit card processing gateway
1378 2012-01-12 23:09:41 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: oh well, at least he's not running a gambling site that is based on http geting its random numbers.
1379 2012-01-12 23:09:51 <pierce> other than that, you just need to set a user/pass in the bitcoin.conf
1380 2012-01-12 23:09:53 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: we don't know that yet
1381 2012-01-12 23:10:10 <occulta> yes piece i read about the .conf and thats why i was curious
1382 2012-01-12 23:10:15 <occulta> many settings there
1383 2012-01-12 23:10:18 random_cat has joined
1384 2012-01-12 23:10:21 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: heh I was half waiting for a < occulta> wait. Whats wrong with that?
1385 2012-01-12 23:11:05 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: he's an expert, remember. he'll dismiss your implication without a question
1386 2012-01-12 23:11:14 <pierce> ya, the best way to get random numbers is in javascript getting a bunch of timestamps and xoring them together
1387 2012-01-12 23:11:29 * luke-jr glares at the missing BlueMatt for claiming he fixed his bugs when he didn't. -.-
1388 2012-01-12 23:11:31 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
1389 2012-01-12 23:11:40 <gmaxwell> pierce: ... do you happen to run a gambling site?
1390 2012-01-12 23:11:44 <pierce> ha
1391 2012-01-12 23:11:51 <pierce> I run btclotto.net :-D
1392 2012-01-12 23:11:54 <gmaxwell> if so, I expect to get rich pretty fast.
1393 2012-01-12 23:12:02 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I think pierce is setting occulta up so pierce can exploit his siteâ¦
1394 2012-01-12 23:12:11 <occulta> truly thanks for the concern luke-jr :) next time i need someone to run metasploit ill holla ;)
1395 2012-01-12 23:12:22 <pierce> luke-jr: shh
1396 2012-01-12 23:12:32 <occulta> its secret... im not supposed to know!
1397 2012-01-12 23:12:36 BurtyBB has joined
1398 2012-01-12 23:12:41 <pierce> occulta: metasploit isn't going to help
1399 2012-01-12 23:12:50 <pierce> occulta: unless you have some other serious issues
1400 2012-01-12 23:12:52 bitcoinbulletin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1401 2012-01-12 23:12:54 <occulta> pierce: it was sarcasm lol
1402 2012-01-12 23:12:59 <luke-jr> pierce: I bet he does.
1403 2012-01-12 23:13:33 <pierce> occulta: for webapp security, things like burp tend to work pretty well
1404 2012-01-12 23:13:46 <occulta> i have burp pro suite
1405 2012-01-12 23:13:50 gribble has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1406 2012-01-12 23:13:52 <occulta> and other licenses
1407 2012-01-12 23:14:02 nanotube has quit (Quit: Something is wrong...)
1408 2012-01-12 23:14:12 <gmaxwell> pierce: there is no replacement for being aware of the risks and being paranoid.
1409 2012-01-12 23:14:31 gribble has joined
1410 2012-01-12 23:14:32 <pierce> good good, learn how to use burp, it's damn powerful
1411 2012-01-12 23:14:34 <occulta> their book is not too bad, the 1st edition anywho
1412 2012-01-12 23:14:53 <occulta> im familiar :)
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1417 2012-01-12 23:18:39 <gmaxwell> pierce: you're not .. really.. xoring a bunch of timestamps are you?
1418 2012-01-12 23:18:44 paraipan has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1419 2012-01-12 23:19:02 <pierce> gmaxwell: in javascript :-D
1420 2012-01-12 23:19:11 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: it's OK, he sleeps a random number of seconds between the samples
1421 2012-01-12 23:19:15 <pierce> no, but it's fun to recommend it to others :-)
1422 2012-01-12 23:19:28 TD has joined
1423 2012-01-12 23:19:49 <pierce> xor, also known as the one time pad, is very useful in crypto
1424 2012-01-12 23:19:59 Cryo has joined
1425 2012-01-12 23:20:23 Cryo is now known as Guest47664
1426 2012-01-12 23:20:59 Gnaffel has joined
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1428 2012-01-12 23:21:21 <gmaxwell> pierce: meh, if you're going to make weaksauce suggestions at least give ones that make people waste money rather than be insecure.
1429 2012-01-12 23:21:30 <gmaxwell> e.g. http://www.entropykey.co.uk/
1430 2012-01-12 23:21:38 <pierce> haha
1431 2012-01-12 23:22:02 <pierce> gmaxwell: I have one of those :-D not as useful as advertised
1432 2012-01-12 23:22:31 <gmaxwell> well, it should be useful just because the linux kernel sucks: the entropy pool is tiny and almost nothing adds entropy to it
1433 2012-01-12 23:23:03 <gmaxwell> but it's not like /dev/urandom is inadequate for ... well.. just about anything.
1434 2012-01-12 23:23:16 <sipa> how large is the pool?
1435 2012-01-12 23:23:18 <pierce> ya, last place I worked built entropy devices for datacenters
1436 2012-01-12 23:23:22 m00p has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1437 2012-01-12 23:23:43 <gmaxwell> sipa: 4096 bits
1438 2012-01-12 23:23:52 <luke-jr> I sure hope Bitcoin doesn't use urandom
1439 2012-01-12 23:24:00 <gmaxwell> sipa: and on many systems you only get 100 bits/s added (from the timer interupt)
1440 2012-01-12 23:24:18 <gmaxwell> (though it depends on your nic, some still add entropy some don't)
1441 2012-01-12 23:24:34 bitcoinbulletin has joined
1442 2012-01-12 23:25:25 <sipa> gmaxwell: then go make a linux-highentropy fork!
1443 2012-01-12 23:25:28 localhost has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1444 2012-01-12 23:25:28 <gmaxwell> sipa: you used to be able to resize itâ but there was an exploit related to the sysctl (â½) so they took that out.
1445 2012-01-12 23:25:47 <gmaxwell> but that was back when everything under the sun added to the pool, so the small pool wasn't much of an issue
1446 2012-01-12 23:27:48 <gmaxwell> I had a damn confusing issue with a host (a ssl webserver) where ssh was randomly taking >1 second to connect.
1447 2012-01-12 23:27:56 <gmaxwell> turned out to be the system running out of entropy
1448 2012-01-12 23:28:18 <gmaxwell> and because the pool is so small, userspace entropy fillers don't work so well.
1449 2012-01-12 23:28:33 <gmaxwell> (most are just busted: they dump 100k of entropy on the pool at once, which does no good)
1450 2012-01-12 23:29:07 localhost has joined
1451 2012-01-12 23:29:21 <gmaxwell> http://www.irisa.fr/caps/projects/hipsor/ < is good however, and solved my problem
1452 2012-01-12 23:31:02 usergg has joined
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1454 2012-01-12 23:45:31 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, just be warned havege isn't useful in many vm environments
1455 2012-01-12 23:48:34 da2ce7 has joined
1456 2012-01-12 23:48:44 <da2ce7> hello everyone!
1457 2012-01-12 23:48:44 <da2ce7> :)
1458 2012-01-12 23:51:24 theymos has joined
1459 2012-01-12 23:52:13 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: not that I care, but define 'isn't useful' ... I mean if it just gets less entropy then it thinks it does then I don't care.
1460 2012-01-12 23:52:34 <gmaxwell> The cryptographic prng is overkill in any case, if it's getting any entropy at all it's going to be secure for most purposes.
1461 2012-01-12 23:54:34 da2ce7 has joined
1462 2012-01-12 23:54:37 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, true
1463 2012-01-12 23:54:56 b4epoche_ has joined
1464 2012-01-12 23:55:52 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: personally I'd just modify the kernel to keep /dev/random from blocking, or all software to use urandom but running non-standard software has its own costs.
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