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 47 2012-01-15 10:45:42 <Eliel> luke-jr: what kind of a practical problems do you expect to happen because of BIP 16? I'm personally fine with both BIP 16 and CHV but I don't feel like I really understand your objection to BIP 16.
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 53 2012-01-15 11:00:03 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r8171ceab8535 cgminer/findnonce.c: Simplify submit_nonce loop and avoid potentially missing FOUND - 1 entry. Reported by Luke-Jr. http://tinyurl.com/8xdgybj
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 59 2012-01-15 11:29:46 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * r6a9d96c26f8e /include/bitcoin/data_helpers.hpp: Improved uncast_type. http://tinyurl.com/7regkuz
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 85 2012-01-15 13:05:08 <CIA-100> bitcoin: p2k * rc70767fc2a40 ecoinpool/ (8 files in 4 dirs): Faster Block Chain Sync; Bugfix for Encrypted Passwords http://tinyurl.com/79rk3r7
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126 2012-01-15 15:21:04 <etotheipi_> anyone in Ubuntu willing to help me test Armory? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=56424)
127 2012-01-15 15:21:26 <etotheipi_> Windows works, too, but the build process is nasty
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136 2012-01-15 15:35:39 <finway> gmaxwell: 1hour to 100k blocks, is this quick?
137 2012-01-15 15:35:48 <finway> initial download
138 2012-01-15 15:35:57 <sipa> sounds quite good
139 2012-01-15 15:36:11 <finway> i'm testing 0.5.2
140 2012-01-15 15:36:26 <finway> seems wonderful
141 2012-01-15 15:37:05 <finway> Huge improvement!
142 2012-01-15 15:38:22 <finway> sipa: When will the "blockhead downloading first, catch up later" client release?
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146 2012-01-15 15:48:40 <Diablo-D3> that was fun
147 2012-01-15 15:48:46 <Diablo-D3> I locked up my gpu
148 2012-01-15 15:48:54 <Diablo-D3> but monitor didnt switch off
149 2012-01-15 15:49:30 <occulta> finway is that betqa?
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152 2012-01-15 15:58:10 <etotheipi_> anyone know how you can search the IRC logs (such as, for this channel)?  I can get to the per-day select calendar, and individual pages, but I can't figure out how to search for text
153 2012-01-15 16:02:09 roconnor has joined
154 2012-01-15 16:06:15 <roconnor> idea: miners should be encouraged to replace all sigScripts with equivalent sigScripts containing only PUSHDATA.  Bonus points for removing unneccesary PUSHDATA.
155 2012-01-15 16:06:28 <roconnor> pros: sigScripts end up with only PUSHDATA
156 2012-01-15 16:06:43 <roconnor> cons: transaction hashes change.
157 2012-01-15 16:06:59 <roconnor> counter-argument: these people deserve to have their transaction hashes changed.
158 2012-01-15 16:07:08 <Diablo-D3> best counter argument ever
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161 2012-01-15 16:14:32 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Janne Pulkkinen master * r29b7273 / (src/qt/forms/aboutdialog.ui src/qt/forms/sendcoinsdialog.ui): *Clear all has a tooltip now *About dialog updated - http://git.io/gLiG-A https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/29b7273153c37b7c898ee058717925915f7d055b
162 2012-01-15 16:14:33 <CIA-100> bitcoin: Wladimir J. van der Laan master * r5dc0900 / (src/qt/forms/aboutdialog.ui src/qt/forms/sendcoinsdialog.ui): Merge pull request #758 from Matoking/master ... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/5dc090009ea3b943d9b474555eea04acf6b6a972
163 2012-01-15 16:23:08 <etotheipi_> anyone here willing to help me test Armory?  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=56424)
164 2012-01-15 16:24:25 <etotheipi_> I want to get an release alpha in the next week or two, but I need more testing (plus I know someone here wants offline transactions :))
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167 2012-01-15 16:29:32 <roconnor> I think I'll modify my client to add messages to sigScripts in transactions I relay (on testnet)
168 2012-01-15 16:31:13 <etotheipi_> roconnor, what will that do?  won't it just break all the tx hashes?
169 2012-01-15 16:31:21 <etotheipi_> err.. signatures
170 2012-01-15 16:31:35 <roconnor> it will encourage miners to strip them I hope
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172 2012-01-15 16:32:47 <etotheipi_> for what benefit?   did i miss an earlier discussion about miners-should-strip-off-data?
173 2012-01-15 16:33:11 <roconnor> 28 minutes ago I made the suggestion :)
174 2012-01-15 16:33:43 <etotheipi_> yeah, I saw that... but I guess I didn't understand... all the signatures will break meaning nothing can be valid
175 2012-01-15 16:34:07 <roconnor> etotheipi_: nope. Miners right now can replace any signature script with any equivalent signature script.
176 2012-01-15 16:34:29 <etotheipi_> oooh, right, because that script is removed before signign
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178 2012-01-15 16:34:36 <etotheipi_> I was thinking of the output script
179 2012-01-15 16:34:39 <roconnor> This is the "bug" pointed out by Dan at DefCon IIRC
180 2012-01-15 16:35:07 <etotheipi_> this makes a lot more sense, now
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182 2012-01-15 16:38:01 <etotheipi_> that almost seems so obvious in hindsight... is there anything stopping miners jamming arbitrary OP_DROP data into those scripts
183 2012-01-15 16:38:28 <etotheipi_> or I guess they  could put pushdatas on the bottom of the stack where it will be ignored after a equalverify/checksigverify
184 2012-01-15 16:38:29 <roconnor> if in the end, the stack isn't correct enough to validate, the transaction won't be accepted
185 2012-01-15 16:40:42 <etotheipi_> roconnor, what OS are you in?
186 2012-01-15 16:40:54 <roconnor> linux
187 2012-01-15 16:41:37 <etotheipi_> perfect.  I would be honored if you would look at Armory for me (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=56424)... I desperately need some testers
188 2012-01-15 16:41:52 <etotheipi_> and it's pretty easy to get going in Linux (at least it is in Ubuntu)
189 2012-01-15 16:41:58 <roconnor> does it work on testnet?
190 2012-01-15 16:42:03 <etotheipi_> yes, testnet is default
191 2012-01-15 16:42:22 <etotheipi_> just make sure you have a testnet satoshi client running and sync'd already
192 2012-01-15 16:42:42 <roconnor> I probably cannot look at it until next weekend
193 2012-01-15 16:42:47 <roconnor> or maybe later this week
194 2012-01-15 16:43:10 <etotheipi_> but you can use it pretty safely on main-network, just be sure to use the print-paper-backup method and no matter how bad it crashes, you'll always have your keys
195 2012-01-15 16:44:47 <etotheipi_> (but it's pretty robust, as I've done quite a bit of testing myself, but I can't tell if I'm too nice to it... I need users doing whacky things to test its robustness)
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201 2012-01-15 17:09:15 <sipa> roconnor: i doubt any miner will touch scriptSig at all
202 2012-01-15 17:11:40 <roconnor> sipa: they will once my rogue relayer comes online
203 2012-01-15 17:12:22 <sipa> etotheipi_: large git repository!
204 2012-01-15 17:14:50 <etotheipi_> sipa, I haven't figured out how to remove some stupid exes I accidentally committed
205 2012-01-15 17:15:04 <etotheipi_> obviously I removed them from the project, but the repo is holding onto them
206 2012-01-15 17:15:17 <etotheipi_> and I'm not good enough with git to figure out how to actually remove it
207 2012-01-15 17:15:35 <sipa> i use git rebase for such things
208 2012-01-15 17:15:45 <sipa> allows you to go back to an earlier commit, and change things
209 2012-01-15 17:15:47 <etotheipi_> well, they're pretty deep in the blockchain by now
210 2012-01-15 17:15:52 <etotheipi_> err... not blockchain,
211 2012-01-15 17:15:56 <sipa> and let it rebuild the commits afterwards
212 2012-01-15 17:16:14 <etotheipi_> okay, I'll look into that, thanks
213 2012-01-15 17:16:56 <etotheipi_> won't that cause it to break for anyone currently checked out on a later commit?
214 2012-01-15 17:17:31 <sipa> yes
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216 2012-01-15 17:18:30 <etotheipi_> gah... so there's no easier way to delete the data while just keeping the dangling pointer in the tree for hash integrity?
217 2012-01-15 17:18:48 <sipa> etotheipi_: ***ERROR:  C++ block utilities not available.
218 2012-01-15 17:18:59 <sipa> (after following your instructions)
219 2012-01-15 17:19:01 <etotheipi_> did follow the build instructions on the site?
220 2012-01-15 17:19:08 <etotheipi_> are in you in ubuntu?
221 2012-01-15 17:19:13 <sipa> yes, make swig worked perfectly
222 2012-01-15 17:19:26 <etotheipi_> first test:  failed
223 2012-01-15 17:19:28 <sipa> ubuntu 11.10 amd64
224 2012-01-15 17:19:29 <etotheipi_> :(
225 2012-01-15 17:19:48 <sipa> i believe it just doesn't look in that cppForSwig directory>
226 2012-01-15 17:19:49 <sipa> ?
227 2012-01-15 17:20:06 <etotheipi_> the swig object is copied to the base directory
228 2012-01-15 17:20:13 <etotheipi_> the issue is usually some kind of missing dependency
229 2012-01-15 17:20:28 <sipa> right, but . is usually not in LD_LIBRARY_PATH
230 2012-01-15 17:20:29 <etotheipi_> but I stupidly decided to print that generic message, instead of printing the actual error that would be useful for me
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235 2012-01-15 17:22:01 <sipa> feel free to tell me what to change, etotheipi_
236 2012-01-15 17:22:14 <etotheipi_> thansk for your patience sipa, I'm investigating now
237 2012-01-15 17:23:04 <etotheipi_> in that base directory, can you open python and type "import CppBlockUtils"
238 2012-01-15 17:23:12 <etotheipi_> that will give me the error that is actually useful
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240 2012-01-15 17:24:23 <sipa> that error looks like a problem with cryptopp, which i only installed after compiling most objects
241 2012-01-15 17:24:27 <sipa> i'll rebuild first
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245 2012-01-15 17:26:05 <sipa> you don't use the cryptopp included in the source?
246 2012-01-15 17:26:13 <etotheipi_> it's a long story
247 2012-01-15 17:26:17 <etotheipi_> it's used on the windows side
248 2012-01-15 17:26:29 <etotheipi_> and I've tried it in Ubuntu, but I ran into some issues
249 2012-01-15 17:26:50 <sipa> ImportError: ./_CppBlockUtils.so: undefined symbol: _ZN8CryptoPP16IteratedHashBaseIjNS_18HashTransformationEE6UpdateEPKhm
250 2012-01-15 17:26:53 <sipa> that's the error
251 2012-01-15 17:26:59 <etotheipi_> yeah, definitely a cryptopp thing
252 2012-01-15 17:27:14 <sipa> but there is definitely something wrong
253 2012-01-15 17:27:38 <etotheipi_> I was afraid of this:  try one thing for me, please... in the makefile, just change all "cryptopp" paths/libs to "crypto++"
254 2012-01-15 17:28:39 <etotheipi_> sounds like, I need to get Ubuntu to start leveraging the included cryptopp dir
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257 2012-01-15 17:29:47 <Joric> sipa is there a patch for generating privkey / sending bitcoins from a passphrase? could be handy
258 2012-01-15 17:32:38 <sipa> etotheipi_: python simply doesn't load libcrypto++.so
259 2012-01-15 17:32:44 <sipa> when doing that import
260 2012-01-15 17:32:54 <sipa> i've forced it to preload that library and it works
261 2012-01-15 17:33:11 <etotheipi_> okay, good to know... I'll look into a more-robust solution...
262 2012-01-15 17:33:38 <sipa> Joric: you generate a privkey by requesting a new address
263 2012-01-15 17:33:51 <sipa> Joric: and you can send coins using sendtoaddress?
264 2012-01-15 17:33:58 <hltv> shadders:you there?
265 2012-01-15 17:34:06 <sipa> possibly unlocking the wallet using walletpassphrase
266 2012-01-15 17:34:25 <Joric> sipa i mean generating privkey from passphrase
267 2012-01-15 17:36:52 <sipa> you mean determinstic keys? that's not implemented
268 2012-01-15 17:36:59 <sipa> etotheipi_: how does your key derivation work?
269 2012-01-15 17:37:12 <sipa> i'm impressed, by the way!
270 2012-01-15 17:38:06 <etotheipi_>  it's the KDFRomix algorithm described in the scrypt-paper: http://www.tarsnap.com/scrypt/scrypt.pdf
271 2012-01-15 17:38:47 <sipa> oh, i don't mean how derivation from passphrase works; i know scrypt
272 2012-01-15 17:39:00 <sipa> but you have the ability to print the wallet to paper
273 2012-01-15 17:39:14 <sipa> how are keypairs derived from the information on that pahe?
274 2012-01-15 17:39:16 <etotheipi_> so it doesn't have quite the same flexibility as scrypt itself, but it's simpler than mashing together lots of different crypto algorithms
275 2012-01-15 17:39:17 <etotheipi_> ooh
276 2012-01-15 17:39:17 <etotheipi_> that
277 2012-01-15 17:39:20 <sipa> root key / chain code
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284 2012-01-15 17:40:27 <etotheipi_> root key is a BTC address private key... chaincode is 32-bytes of entropy....   C = hash256(pubKey) XOR chaincode;  PrivKey[i+1] = PrivKey[i[]*C mod N
285 2012-01-15 17:40:58 <etotheipi_> which is the gmaxwell-type-2 algorithm, meaning it can be applied with the public key alone, and that's how I enable watching-only wallets
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287 2012-01-15 17:41:15 <sipa> aha, nice!
288 2012-01-15 17:41:31 Joric_ is now known as Joric
289 2012-01-15 17:41:32 <etotheipi_> and hence the magic behind offline-wallets :)
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292 2012-01-15 17:44:35 <etotheipi_> so I've tested the wallets a lot... but if you plan to use real money ( --mainnet), please print off the paper wallet so that you can't lose any of it
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294 2012-01-15 17:46:17 <sipa> etotheipi_: do you have support for compressed pubkeys?
295 2012-01-15 17:46:42 <sipa> (bitcoind 0.6 will use them)
296 2012-01-15 17:46:55 <etotheipi_> crap... no I don't
297 2012-01-15 17:47:12 <sipa> i've mailed some info to the mailinglist about them
298 2012-01-15 17:47:35 <etotheipi_> okay, I'll look into that...
299 2012-01-15 17:48:20 <sipa> etotheipi_: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=20111121114819.GB7261%40ulyssis.org&forum_name=bitcoin-development
300 2012-01-15 17:48:26 <etotheipi_> given that I can already do ECC math in my C++ code, how much effort do you think it is to add code to identify and compute the public key?
301 2012-01-15 17:48:39 <sipa> and http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=CAPg%2BsBhDFCjAn1tRRQhaudtqwsh4vcVbxzm%2BAA2OuFxN71fwUA%40mail.gmail.com&forum_name=bitcoin-development
302 2012-01-15 17:49:11 <sipa> they are 33 bytes, and start with 0x02 or 0x03
303 2012-01-15 17:49:20 <sipa> instead of 65 bytes, and starting with 0x04
304 2012-01-15 17:49:59 <sipa> they are derived from identical private keys, but need some boolean flag in software to mark them as compressed, since they pubkey and hence address are difference
305 2012-01-15 17:50:02 <etotheipi_> ooh, so this has to go into the private-to-public ECC algorithm?
306 2012-01-15 17:50:07 <sipa> yes
307 2012-01-15 17:50:23 <sipa> you cannot tell whether an address corresponds to a compressed pubkey or not
308 2012-01-15 17:51:00 <sipa> and the base58 format for private key contains a marker 0x01 after the 32-byte secret to identify the corresponding pubkey to be compressed
309 2012-01-15 17:51:45 <etotheipi_> mathematically, how do I derive both keys:   if private key is a, then public key is a*G (where G is the generator point)
310 2012-01-15 17:51:56 <etotheipi_> what is the other key?
311 2012-01-15 17:52:03 <sipa> a public key is a point
312 2012-01-15 17:52:13 <sipa> compressed public keys are not different
313 2012-01-15 17:52:13 <etotheipi_> I meant, what is the other point
314 2012-01-15 17:52:18 <sipa> the same point
315 2012-01-15 17:52:22 <sipa> just a shorter serialization
316 2012-01-15 17:52:36 <mtrlt> compressed public keys only have the x coordinate and a bit to indicate which y coordinate is used right?
317 2012-01-15 17:52:36 viscienzo has joined
318 2012-01-15 17:52:38 <etotheipi_> ooh, it's the same X-value, but there's two possible Y values?
319 2012-01-15 17:52:42 <sipa> indeed
320 2012-01-15 17:52:44 <etotheipi_> gotcha
321 2012-01-15 17:52:56 <sipa> take bytes 1-33 of the normal pubkey, and prefix 0x02 if the y value is even, 0x03 if it is odd
322 2012-01-15 17:52:57 viscienzo has left ()
323 2012-01-15 17:53:44 <etotheipi_> so I am replacing the y-value in the public key with 1-byte to identify which of the two possibilities it is
324 2012-01-15 17:53:52 srpg has joined
325 2012-01-15 17:53:59 <sipa> that's a possibility
326 2012-01-15 17:54:15 Nesetalis has quit (Quit: <+shponka> how does one scissor with four people <+shponka> hypercube tribadism)
327 2012-01-15 17:54:16 <etotheipi_> I'm just making sure I understand... and meant to add a '?' after that
328 2012-01-15 17:54:40 <etotheipi_> right now we have [0x04 | PubXBE(32) | PubYBE(32)]
329 2012-01-15 17:55:21 <etotheipi_> that is now becoming [0x02 | PubXBE(32)]    or     [0x03 | PubXBE(32)] .. ?
330 2012-01-15 17:55:42 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
331 2012-01-15 17:55:48 <sipa> yes
332 2012-01-15 17:56:03 <etotheipi_> what is hashed for the address?
333 2012-01-15 17:56:12 <sipa> same formula
334 2012-01-15 17:56:13 <etotheipi_> err.. I guess that's hashed for the address
335 2012-01-15 17:56:19 <sipa> ripemd160(sha256(pubkey))
336 2012-01-15 17:56:30 <sipa> etotheipi_: the second link i gave links to a mail with some test vectors
337 2012-01-15 17:56:37 <etotheipi_> okay, thanks
338 2012-01-15 17:57:07 <etotheipi_> oh, I missed the seecond link
339 2012-01-15 17:57:12 <etotheipi_> that makes more sense
340 2012-01-15 17:57:27 Mad7Scientist has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
341 2012-01-15 17:59:42 <etotheipi_> how much time do you think I have before I'm going to have to support that?
342 2012-01-15 18:00:05 <etotheipi_> I'm scrambling to get stuff together for my client release... but clearly I'm going to have to push it back and rerun a bunch of unittests to support this
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346 2012-01-15 18:00:31 <etotheipi_> (I've been so consumed by development, I haven't really paid much attention to mailing lists, etc)
347 2012-01-15 18:00:33 <sipa> i took me at most a few hours to get it running and tested in bitcoind
348 2012-01-15 18:00:44 <etotheipi_> oh, that's not bad
349 2012-01-15 18:01:03 <sipa> tested on mainnet, even
350 2012-01-15 18:01:14 <etotheipi_> are there compressed keys on mainnet right now?
351 2012-01-15 18:01:20 <sipa> yes
352 2012-01-15 18:01:24 <sipa> a few
353 2012-01-15 18:01:34 <etotheipi_> ugh... I bet they're all tucked away in my non-std-tx-map
354 2012-01-15 18:01:35 <sipa> i could find the txid if you like
355 2012-01-15 18:01:39 Nesetalis has joined
356 2012-01-15 18:02:50 <etotheipi_> my problem will be updating my std-tx-detector to make sure they are caught and handled correctly... it sounds like actually doing the computation isn't hard
357 2012-01-15 18:03:20 <sipa> most openssl-based bitcoin code already supported them transparently
358 2012-01-15 18:03:34 <sipa> that's how they got accepted on mainnet
359 2012-01-15 18:03:36 <etotheipi_> unfortunately, I'm not using openssl... something I've come very close to switching too
360 2012-01-15 18:03:44 <etotheipi_> but I got kinda deep with cryptopp
361 2012-01-15 18:03:56 <sipa> i'm not very impressed by openssl
362 2012-01-15 18:04:18 <etotheipi_> well cryptopp isn't particularly fast... but I have liked using it (once you get over the learning curve)
363 2012-01-15 18:04:33 <sipa> i even had to implement creation of keys from a 32-byte secret myself
364 2012-01-15 18:04:49 <sipa> how long does a signature verification take you?
365 2012-01-15 18:04:53 <sipa> on what kind of hardware?
366 2012-01-15 18:05:54 <etotheipi_> I think I do about 150 sig-verifies per sec
367 2012-01-15 18:05:54 _Fireball has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
368 2012-01-15 18:06:15 <etotheipi_> actually, I have a unit test that does the timing... I should run it again
369 2012-01-15 18:06:16 <sipa> ok, about 10x as slow as openssl
370 2012-01-15 18:06:24 <sipa> unless your cpu is ancient
371 2012-01-15 18:06:26 <etotheipi_> well there's some overhead with mine
372 2012-01-15 18:06:37 _Fireball has joined
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376 2012-01-15 18:07:30 <etotheipi_> I mean, casting/copying data around... I never intended to do blockchain validation, so it didn't matter
377 2012-01-15 18:08:03 abragin has left ()
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379 2012-01-15 18:10:38 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: Kamil Domanski * r3e2c03e87873 / (2 files in 2 dirs): discovery: add handlers, move nick and channel name to class fields http://tinyurl.com/7o3h8x9
380 2012-01-15 18:10:39 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: Kamil Domanski * r6b7020336c3e / (3 files in 3 dirs): discovery: return present clients with handler http://tinyurl.com/7o59jpb
381 2012-01-15 18:10:46 bodom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
382 2012-01-15 18:11:12 <etotheipi_> OTOH, blockchain scanning was intended to be fast
383 2012-01-15 18:11:37 <etotheipi_> I got a full rescan of a wallet to 0.75s if the blockchain is in RAM
384 2012-01-15 18:11:56 <etotheipi_> about 10-15s if it has to be read from disk
385 2012-01-15 18:15:36 <etotheipi_> but you are enticing me to switch... it wouldn't hurt to use openssl, given that it's both faster, and more widely-suppoted
386 2012-01-15 18:19:36 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
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394 2012-01-15 18:35:51 <hltv> etotheipi_:and how did you put the blockchain in the ram exactly?
395 2012-01-15 18:37:25 egecko has quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
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397 2012-01-15 18:44:21 <etotheipi_> hltv, you obviously have to have the RAM to begin wiht
398 2012-01-15 18:44:50 <etotheipi_> a future Armory release won't require it... but until then, Armory does a bulk copy from disk to RAM, then rescans all your wallets before startup
399 2012-01-15 18:45:35 <etotheipi_> there's no dependence on index files or anything of the sort... if you have the blockchain, loading Armory will rescan the blockchain for all your BTC
400 2012-01-15 18:45:41 egecko has joined
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402 2012-01-15 18:56:51 <hltv> hltv:how much ram are we talking about here?
403 2012-01-15 18:57:34 diki has joined
404 2012-01-15 18:59:49 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * rc99f4f425793 / (2 files in 2 dirs): fetch_block_depth(hash) http://tinyurl.com/7kcvbul
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411 2012-01-15 19:19:44 <gmaxwell> So in my test, during syncup we cause 5.8 million writes to the media, writing 23 GiB in the process.
412 2012-01-15 19:21:36 <gmaxwell> Writing the blocks themselves are nice and neat, but before measuring it, I hadn't considered all the amplification we'd get from updating the index, but it makes perfect sense.
413 2012-01-15 19:21:39 unicron has joined
414 2012-01-15 19:25:08 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: I was thinking, cblockstore would make delaying commitblock announcements till after the blocks were written to disk pretty easy...
415 2012-01-15 19:25:21 <BlueMatt> and you could do batch block writes
416 2012-01-15 19:26:47 <sipa> BlueMatt: not with the current mechanism
417 2012-01-15 19:27:33 <gmaxwell> Batch index writes appear to be the thing needed most— though I haven't checked if bdb will actually conserve effort if you do a bunch of index updates in one transaction.
418 2012-01-15 19:28:04 srpg has quit (Quit: Page closed)
419 2012-01-15 19:28:26 <gmaxwell> (writing the blocks is almost certantly only about a GiB of that overall)
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441 2012-01-15 20:01:44 <gmaxwell> I wonder why gavin just disabled the signature checking before the checkpoint rather than making it only validate the hash tree. That would cut down on a lot of IO.
442 2012-01-15 20:02:08 <sipa> the hash tree?
443 2012-01-15 20:02:41 <gmaxwell> the transaction hashes and merkle root
444 2012-01-15 20:03:29 <sipa> well, you still need to update the transaction index
445 2012-01-15 20:03:32 <sipa> that is most of the work
446 2012-01-15 20:04:09 <gmaxwell> Indeed. I don't know any way out of that.
447 2012-01-15 20:04:47 <gmaxwell> That think was mostly inspired by the fact that we've had a few incidents of people with corrupted chains on disk, and the only way to fix it is to erase it, because we don't have any hash validating rescan option.
448 2012-01-15 20:04:50 safra has quit (Quit: Leaving)
449 2012-01-15 20:05:20 genjix has joined
450 2012-01-15 20:06:21 <genjix> hey my bitcoind is getting spammed with lots of orphan txs
451 2012-01-15 20:06:46 <genjix> weird huh
452 2012-01-15 20:08:39 <gmaxwell> I don't see them.
453 2012-01-15 20:08:44 <gmaxwell> have an ID number for one?
454 2012-01-15 20:09:11 <gmaxwell> oh maybe I do have some.
455 2012-01-15 20:10:24 user_ has joined
456 2012-01-15 20:11:30 <genjix> ok it stopped now
457 2012-01-15 20:11:41 <sipa> were you synced?
458 2012-01-15 20:11:47 <genjix> yep
459 2012-01-15 20:12:02 <gmaxwell> genjix: can you give me one of their IDs so I can see if I got them?
460 2012-01-15 20:12:18 <gmaxwell> perhaps someone joined an altchain to the bitcoin network. :)
461 2012-01-15 20:13:31 torsthaldo has joined
462 2012-01-15 20:13:36 <genjix> sure
463 2012-01-15 20:13:37 <genjix> one sec
464 2012-01-15 20:15:32 <genjix> gmaxwell: my node is always up and the first thing i checked was block count which was in sync with bitcoinwatch, http://privatepaste.com/download/97c5d51958
465 2012-01-15 20:15:53 <genjix> there's 2 more pages of this here
466 2012-01-15 20:16:18 <gmaxwell> 01/15/12 20:00:16 askfor tx 09030d4c6be1404661c1   0
467 2012-01-15 20:16:18 <gmaxwell> 01/15/12 20:00:16 sending getdata: tx 09030d4c6be1404661c1
468 2012-01-15 20:16:18 <gmaxwell> 01/15/12 20:00:16 AcceptToMemoryPool(): accepted 09030d4c6b
469 2012-01-15 20:16:52 <sipa> genjix: maybe it depended on another transaction which you don't have yet
470 2012-01-15 20:17:02 <sipa> just because it is downloaded in a different order
471 2012-01-15 20:17:14 <genjix> AcceptToMemoryPool(): accepted 621563b158
472 2012-01-15 20:17:14 <genjix> AddAddress(2.92.41.254:8333)
473 2012-01-15 20:17:14 <genjix> askfor tx 291aa74b1102b6350af6   0
474 2012-01-15 20:17:19 <genjix> yep probably
475 2012-01-15 20:17:37 <genjix> that above tx was before them.
476 2012-01-15 20:19:52 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * r970f0351c616 /include/bitcoin/utility/subscriber.hpp: BUGFIX: add to subscribe queue while inside function call causes infinite loop so make copy of queue before calling functions. http://tinyurl.com/86s6b36
477 2012-01-15 20:22:45 occulta has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
478 2012-01-15 20:26:07 <genjix> soo.... anybody watching the good wife? :)
479 2012-01-15 20:26:16 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
480 2012-01-15 20:26:55 <gmaxwell> genjix: isn't it not on until later?
481 2012-01-15 20:27:12 etotheipi_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
482 2012-01-15 20:27:14 <diki> is there a reason
483 2012-01-15 20:27:19 <diki> poolservj crashes bitcoin-qt?
484 2012-01-15 20:27:46 <genjix> gmaxwell: ah dunno.
485 2012-01-15 20:29:37 davout has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
486 2012-01-15 20:29:59 <genjix> i wish g++ had colours in its output
487 2012-01-15 20:30:19 davout has joined
488 2012-01-15 20:30:21 <genjix> but the g++ devs refuse to add colours because they are old schol
489 2012-01-15 20:30:49 <sipa> not the compiler's task, imho
490 2012-01-15 20:30:55 <sipa> you can write a colorizer if you want one
491 2012-01-15 20:30:59 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
492 2012-01-15 20:31:47 <genjix> yeah that's what they say
493 2012-01-15 20:33:30 <genjix> however distro developers say it is a g++ problem and it should provide colourisation... kind of agree since most tools come with an internal colouriser today.
494 2012-01-15 20:35:27 RazielZ has joined
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503 2012-01-15 21:02:25 <midnightmagic> i was thinking graph colorizer, but you are talking about error highlighting and stuff aren't you
504 2012-01-15 21:03:08 <gmaxwell> hah. yes. like clang
505 2012-01-15 21:03:28 <gmaxwell> My solution: Avoid languages with 40 page error messages that you need colorization to read.
506 2012-01-15 21:04:57 <CIA-100> libbitcoin: genjix * rc3e0738c2ba7 / (4 files in 2 dirs): fetch_spend(output_point) -> input_point http://tinyurl.com/77sorcr
507 2012-01-15 21:09:42 safra has joined
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509 2012-01-15 21:20:21 <genjix> anybody wanna play with my bot
510 2012-01-15 21:20:51 <sipa> ieeuw
511 2012-01-15 21:21:43 <genjix> grrr one sec
512 2012-01-15 21:22:29 block-exploiter has joined
513 2012-01-15 21:22:34 <genjix> @last_block_depth
514 2012-01-15 21:22:34 <block-exploiter> malformed command: Invalid command specified
515 2012-01-15 21:22:40 <genjix> @last_depth
516 2012-01-15 21:22:40 <block-exploiter> 768
517 2012-01-15 21:23:05 <genjix> @fetch_block_depth(100)[hash, transactions, nonce, transactions(0)[hash]]
518 2012-01-15 21:23:05 <block-exploiter> malformed command: Invalid command specified
519 2012-01-15 21:23:13 <genjix> @block_depth(100)[hash, transactions, nonce, transactions(0)[hash]]
520 2012-01-15 21:23:13 <block-exploiter> hash=000000007bc154e0fa7ea32218a72fe2c1bb9f86cf8c9ebf9a715ed27fdb229a  transactions=1  nonce=1573057331  transactions(0)[hash]=[hash=2d05f0c9c3e1c226e63b5fac240137687544cf631cd616fd34fd188fc9020866  ]
521 2012-01-15 21:23:50 <genjix> @tx(2d05f0c9c3e1c226e63b5fac240137687544cf631cd616fd34fd188fc9020866)[outputs(0)[value], hash, locktime]
522 2012-01-15 21:23:50 <block-exploiter> outputs(0)[value]=[value=5000000000  ]  hash=2d05f0c9c3e1c226e63b5fac240137687544cf631cd616fd34fd188fc9020866  locktime=0
523 2012-01-15 21:24:06 <genjix> just a little experiment
524 2012-01-15 21:25:21 <genjix> irc block explorer
525 2012-01-15 21:27:44 <andyroo> @help
526 2012-01-15 21:27:44 <block-exploiter> malformed command: Invalid command specified
527 2012-01-15 21:28:31 <genjix> :p didn't do that yet. commands are last_depth, block_depth, block_hash, transaction/tx
528 2012-01-15 21:28:49 <genjix> stuff in ()s is arguments and stuff [] is what to show
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533 2012-01-15 21:41:05 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sipa opened issue 760 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/760>
534 2012-01-15 21:41:26 Wizzleby has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
535 2012-01-15 21:44:50 <CIA-100> bitcoin: p2k * r532fbcc1acd0 ecoinpool/apps/ecoinpool/src/ (3 files): MySQL Share Logger http://tinyurl.com/6qtzerc
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542 2012-01-15 22:02:09 <sipa> how hard is it to generate/choose a .onion address?
543 2012-01-15 22:02:20 <sipa> just generating a new public key, i assume?
544 2012-01-15 22:04:39 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
545 2012-01-15 22:05:34 <andyroo> yep
546 2012-01-15 22:06:04 <andyroo> i don't know exactly how, but presumably deleting the existing one would do
547 2012-01-15 22:06:12 <andyroo> in /var/lib/tor/whatever
548 2012-01-15 22:10:50 safra has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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550 2012-01-15 22:12:35 <gmaxwell> sipa: it's an RSA public key.. but thats it.
551 2012-01-15 22:12:47 <gmaxwell> sipa: there are vanity onion generating tools.
552 2012-01-15 22:13:18 <gmaxwell> (well the address itself is an 80 bit hash of an rsa public key, of course)
553 2012-01-15 22:13:40 <sipa> gmaxwell: i was wondering whether the entire onioncat ipv6 range should be considered equal to a /16 on ipv4, or that each single onion address should be considered a group
554 2012-01-15 22:13:45 ThomasV has joined
555 2012-01-15 22:13:57 <sipa> if it is easy to choose an onion address, i assume the first option is best
556 2012-01-15 22:14:43 <gmaxwell> Yes, the first option is what I was thinking of there.
557 2012-01-15 22:14:52 <sipa> actually, it must be the first option; otherwise you can pollute someone's the entire table by just generating enough onion addresses
558 2012-01-15 22:14:58 <sipa> -the
559 2012-01-15 22:15:14 <gmaxwell> Also for the source-groups for unknown addresses, I think IRC-sourced should be a single group.
560 2012-01-15 22:16:19 <sipa> and DNS, built-in peers, and configfile?
561 2012-01-15 22:17:00 <gmaxwell> built in peers, single group..   I don't now about config files.  For DNS I'd think it would be one group per domain. (or even apply the /16 source rule as if the domains were nodes)
562 2012-01-15 22:17:58 <gmaxwell> (oh, you probably don't know the NS record.. so you can't do the /16 source rule :) )
563 2012-01-15 22:18:06 <sipa> indeed
564 2012-01-15 22:18:44 <sipa> but this is a good idea
565 2012-01-15 22:19:48 <BlueMatt> sipa: well, no, not now, but having a nicer api there to modify makes it easier
566 2012-01-15 22:20:20 <gmaxwell> Bloop?
567 2012-01-15 22:20:55 <BlueMatt> (from much, much earlier)
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569 2012-01-15 22:21:41 <sipa> BlueMatt: what is that a reply to?
570 2012-01-15 22:23:11 <BlueMatt> <sipa> BlueMatt: not with the current mechanism
571 2012-01-15 22:23:23 <BlueMatt> (cblockstore disk writes
572 2012-01-15 22:23:23 <BlueMatt> )
573 2012-01-15 22:23:49 <sipa> right; the current verification mechanism depends on a db transaction around all block operations, in order to be able to revert afterwards
574 2012-01-15 22:24:15 <sipa> so you need a db commit per block, unless that mechanism is changed (and that would be a good thing, imho)
575 2012-01-15 22:25:11 <BlueMatt> well my point was just that a nicer api could allow us to do disk writes apart from verification and not have to spend as much time looking at stuff not in main.cpp
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582 2012-01-15 22:33:27 <BlueMatt> jgarzik...
583 2012-01-15 22:33:51 <BlueMatt> oh, OneFixit this time
584 2012-01-15 22:33:58 <BlueMatt> oh, OneFixt this time
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605 2012-01-15 23:10:50 <etotheipi_> can someone clarify some Satoshi client behavior for me?  If I send a tx with too much input, I get a change output back to myself, but that output will have zero-conf and thus should appear "unconfirmed".  But the Satoshi client checks whether that txout was sent-to-self and allows it to be considered "confirmed" to be spent immediately.  And miners will process such zero-conf outputs as long as they received the first tx and c
606 2012-01-15 23:10:50 <etotheipi_> an include both tx in the same block?   Is this correct?
607 2012-01-15 23:12:09 <etotheipi_> or does the zero-conf tx have to wait a block to be included?  if it's included in the same block, is it guaranteed to have an index higher than the one it is spending?
608 2012-01-15 23:12:34 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: there is no wait required.
609 2012-01-15 23:12:49 <gmaxwell> You can have a block that includes transactions which spend the output of transactions in that block.
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611 2012-01-15 23:13:16 <sipa> the satosi client indeed allows 0-conf outputs to be spend, if tey come from self
612 2012-01-15 23:13:23 <gmaxwell> The reason the client prefers confirmed outputs is not due to spendability, but to reduce risk/disruption due to forks.
613 2012-01-15 23:13:42 <sipa> seems my  key is broken
614 2012-01-15 23:14:33 <etotheipi_> I understand the risks involved... I'm more trying to figure out what is acceptable behavior for my client with regards to zero-conf tx... following Satoshi client on this one is probably preferred
615 2012-01-15 23:15:04 <gmaxwell> Yes, as far as what miners will do— the 0-confirm using transaction will end up with a low priority most likely.
616 2012-01-15 23:16:13 <etotheipi_> finally, can I always expect the tx index to be higher than the tx being spent?
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619 2012-01-15 23:17:29 <sipa> etotheipi_: if you are sure tat an output will not be attempted to be spent by anoter transaction, you can allow 0-conf
620 2012-01-15 23:18:04 <sipa> if it is your own, you can ave suc confidence
621 2012-01-15 23:18:20 <etotheipi_> sipa, you mean, as long as the person isn't running two clients at once and tries to spend at the same time?
622 2012-01-15 23:18:21 <gmaxwell> sipa: use 4 instead? :)
623 2012-01-15 23:18:40 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: no, as long as you won't be victized by someone else.
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625 2012-01-15 23:19:06 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: say someone sends you 0.01 btc but decides to try to rip you off, and concurrently spends the 0.01 btc elsewhere.
626 2012-01-15 23:19:17 <etotheipi_> I'm not sure why there's a difference there... if you have a zero-conf txout from yourself vs someone else, you are still the only person that can spend it
627 2012-01-15 23:19:25 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: meanwhile you're paying your rent and you use that unconfirmed 0.01 btc as an input.
628 2012-01-15 23:19:28 <etotheipi_> oh... double-broadcast
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632 2012-01-15 23:20:06 <gmaxwell> The reason it accepts self-txn is that presumably you trust yourself to not cheat. But it wants txn from other people to be confirmed, because you don't trust them.
633 2012-01-15 23:20:53 <etotheipi_> okay, this makes perfect sense
634 2012-01-15 23:21:25 <etotheipi_> in fact I even have a double-broadcast detector built into my networking, but I'd have to become networking-independent to use it (I'm filtering everything through the Satoshi client)
635 2012-01-15 23:21:42 <etotheipi_> but that's a different story
636 2012-01-15 23:22:28 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: well you can't really detect them well, even if you weren't behind a single node.
637 2012-01-15 23:22:41 <etotheipi_> well it detects the obvious ones
638 2012-01-15 23:22:47 <gmaxwell> simply because the network doesn't propagate them
639 2012-01-15 23:22:52 <etotheipi_> if the person attempting to double-broadcast has a separate network
640 2012-01-15 23:22:55 <sipa> etotheipi_: you're only connecting to it via te p2p port, rigt?
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642 2012-01-15 23:24:05 <etotheipi_> I'm thinking that anyone could modify their client such that whenever they send a tx, they only send to half their peers, and immediately send a conflicting tx to themselves, to the other half, hoping that it gets half the network looking at each
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644 2012-01-15 23:24:50 <etotheipi_> and my node, will accept one and reject the other... but if the scammer did it right, and the network is connected enough, I would *see* the other transaction
645 2012-01-15 23:24:54 <gruez> how do i tag an issue with a label?
646 2012-01-15 23:24:54 <etotheipi_> even if it's rejected
647 2012-01-15 23:25:04 <roconnor> where are client errors logged?
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650 2012-01-15 23:26:02 <etotheipi_> the Satoshi client just drops the second tx... but in my client I check to see if that second tx spends any outputs that are spent in another tx in the memory pool
651 2012-01-15 23:26:49 <etotheipi_> certainly not fail proof, but the more-successful the scammer is (i.e. getting half the network to accept each tx), the more likely it is I'll see both
652 2012-01-15 23:27:35 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: eeehhhh.. not really. He'd just make sure your peers are one 'half'.
653 2012-01-15 23:28:01 <gmaxwell> Connect to lots of nodes. Give you a transaction. Measure the time every node tells him about that transaction.
654 2012-01-15 23:28:26 <roconnor> etotheipi_: this is works nice with my code i'm writing to broadcast double spendish transactions automatically.
655 2012-01-15 23:28:29 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: when it spends he announces to you, and to a bunch of nodes that were far from you.
656 2012-01-15 23:28:50 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, you're ignoring the fact that the type of attack I am specifying is zero-cost, zero-effort... there are ways for a determined, targeting attacker to do what you're saying
657 2012-01-15 23:29:04 <etotheipi_> but it requires time, and focusing on that person
658 2012-01-15 23:29:16 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: what I'm describing is just code too. And you're sending a transaction to a particular person.
659 2012-01-15 23:29:35 <etotheipi_> but the attack I specified could be used by anyone on any tx without knowing anything about them, and have a non-negligible chance of success
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661 2012-01-15 23:29:58 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: meh, just don't over advertise the sensitivity of your detection. It sounds like a fine thing, but over advertised it becomes snake oil.
662 2012-01-15 23:30:19 <etotheipi_> well, you'll noticed I never even mentioned it in my client release thread
663 2012-01-15 23:30:43 <etotheipi_> I agree it's not going to catch a ton, I just think that the "obvious" attacks could be flagged
664 2012-01-15 23:30:57 <gruez> in github, how do i tag an issue with a label?
665 2012-01-15 23:31:24 <gmaxwell> did you see where this was discussed on the dev list, and the idea of broadcasting doublespend notifications was suggested?
666 2012-01-15 23:31:34 <etotheipi_> no, I never saw that
667 2012-01-15 23:32:05 <etotheipi_> and I'm not arguing about code... I'm arguing about how "targeted" the attack is... I can do the double-broadcast against anyone, instantaneously (as I described it)
668 2012-01-15 23:32:15 <etotheipi_> but if I know your node in advance and can do some testing on it, you're right
669 2012-01-15 23:33:57 <etotheipi_> roconnor, are you saying you're writing code to do this, specifically?
670 2012-01-15 23:34:02 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: if we're engaging in the kind of interaction where I might expect you to accept an unconfirmed transaction I can almost always easily identify your node.
671 2012-01-15 23:34:17 <roconnor> etotheipi_: well not double spend per se
672 2012-01-15 23:34:34 <gmaxwell> (because I have a communication channel up with you)
673 2012-01-15 23:34:39 <roconnor> etotheipi_: I'm writing a rogue relayer that puts messages into scriptSigs before relaying
674 2012-01-15 23:34:56 <roconnor> etotheipi_: it should look like a double spending attempt
675 2012-01-15 23:35:05 <roconnor> or at least a little like one
676 2012-01-15 23:35:13 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: Here is the thread. http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=1312550081.12447.3.camel%40BMThinkPad.lan.bluematt.me&forum_name=bitcoin-development
677 2012-01-15 23:36:37 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, thanks I'll look into that thread
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679 2012-01-15 23:37:42 <roconnor> gmaxwell: that attack seems weaker thatn the finney(sp?) attack
680 2012-01-15 23:38:13 <sipa> spelled (spelt?) correctly
681 2012-01-15 23:38:53 <gmaxwell> roconnor: it is, but finney assumes you have hashpower enough to perform the attack in your lifetime. :)
682 2012-01-15 23:38:59 <roconnor> oh
683 2012-01-15 23:39:01 <roconnor> good point
684 2012-01-15 23:39:30 <gmaxwell> "hurray, I can steal gum a couple times a month!"
685 2012-01-15 23:39:59 <gmaxwell> It would be neat if the p2pool shares listed the transactions included (perhaps just w/ fee only) and p2pool reached consensus on including them.
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687 2012-01-15 23:40:29 <gmaxwell> Then you could look to the 10 second p2pshare chain for compelling evidence that a txn will be mined (assuming p2pool was much of the hash power)
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690 2012-01-15 23:44:43 <doublec> roconnor: how does "putting messages into scriptSigs" work? I would have thought changing that would make the transaction invalid.
691 2012-01-15 23:45:02 <gmaxwell> see the incidents page.
692 2012-01-15 23:45:02 <doublec> otherwise I'm surprised the blockchain isn't even more full of advertising.
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694 2012-01-15 23:46:40 <doublec> interesting
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702 2012-01-15 23:56:43 <genjix> slush: !
703 2012-01-15 23:56:53 <genjix> you're not in your own channel :p
704 2012-01-15 23:57:30 <roconnor> doublec: I think miners should replace all sigScripts with only relevent PushData operations.
705 2012-01-15 23:58:00 <gmaxwell> roconnor: a grooming patch wouldn't be too hard, but it would create confusion because it would change txn ids.
706 2012-01-15 23:58:13 <doublec> roconnor: what's the advantage of that?
707 2012-01-15 23:58:16 <roconnor> gmaxwell: it only chagnes txn ids for badly made txns
708 2012-01-15 23:58:32 <roconnor> doublec: fewer advertisements.
709 2012-01-15 23:58:39 <gmaxwell> roconnor: good point, we could also discourage blocks with ungroomed txn after the grooming code is widely deployed.
710 2012-01-15 23:58:46 <roconnor> yes
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716 2012-01-15 23:59:36 <sipa> aren't non-pus operations in sigScript non-standard?
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