1 2012-01-18 00:00:01 <etotheipi_> well if no other nodes saw any of these transactions, I should be able to just re-spend the coins... but the Satoshi client locked the TxOuts
   2 2012-01-18 00:00:18 kobier has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
   3 2012-01-18 00:00:18 nhodges has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
   4 2012-01-18 00:01:04 <gmaxwell> what version of the reference client are you running?
   5 2012-01-18 00:01:12 erle- has quit (Quit: erle-)
   6 2012-01-18 00:01:42 <gmaxwell> (very recent git or something else)?
   7 2012-01-18 00:03:02 nhodges has joined
   8 2012-01-18 00:03:34 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, 0.5.0
   9 2012-01-18 00:03:40 <gmaxwell> K.
  10 2012-01-18 00:04:49 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  11 2012-01-18 00:06:09 <etotheipi_> 0.5.0.1-beta to be more specific
  12 2012-01-18 00:06:25 pickett has joined
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  14 2012-01-18 00:07:35 <BlueMatt> we had a 0.5.0.1?
  15 2012-01-18 00:07:39 <BlueMatt> was that a luke-jr one?
  16 2012-01-18 00:08:04 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: it's fine, I just wanted to make sure you weren't running latest git an make sure there wasn't some horrible result from gavin's connectinput refacto.
  17 2012-01-18 00:08:52 theorbtwo has joined
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  19 2012-01-18 00:10:48 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: yes
  20 2012-01-18 00:11:01 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I plan to deprecate 0.5.0.x when 0.6.0 is released
  21 2012-01-18 00:11:22 <luke-jr> (in the meantime, I have no interest in building it)
  22 2012-01-18 00:11:22 <BlueMatt> mmm
  23 2012-01-18 00:13:12 <etotheipi_> so any reason why no-fee transactions would suddenly start getting stuck?  Did I just start getting unlucky?  Anyway to get the Satoshi client to unlock them so I can try a new transaction?
  24 2012-01-18 00:13:19 terrytibbs has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  25 2012-01-18 00:13:19 nhodges has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  26 2012-01-18 00:13:24 <sipa> etotheipi_: not yet
  27 2012-01-18 00:13:45 <etotheipi_> for now, I was planning to just import the keys to Armory, which I wanted to do eventually, anyway
  28 2012-01-18 00:13:49 <etotheipi_> but I can't get them out of my wallet
  29 2012-01-18 00:14:54 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: did you ever get the other txn id?
  30 2012-01-18 00:15:08 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  31 2012-01-18 00:16:01 terrytibbs has joined
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  34 2012-01-18 00:18:09 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, how was I supposed to get the ID from the client?  can I find the hash160 in the debug log?
  35 2012-01-18 00:18:34 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: it's show in the listtransactions rpc
  36 2012-01-18 00:18:38 pickett has joined
  37 2012-01-18 00:18:44 <gmaxwell> there is a way to get it from the GUI, but I'm gui clueless.
  38 2012-01-18 00:18:54 <etotheipi_> well, I'm RPC clueless
  39 2012-01-18 00:18:59 <BlueMatt> there is but only in git head
  40 2012-01-18 00:19:01 <etotheipi_> I've never used the RPC
  41 2012-01-18 00:19:10 <BlueMatt> just double click the tx, but not in any released versions
  42 2012-01-18 00:19:20 nhodges has joined
  43 2012-01-18 00:20:18 <etotheipi_> Status: 0/unconfirmed    Date: 1/16/12 18:58    To: Transfer to Armory wallet 1EFTUhNF3HbaWtqm63UtN5oQB35zTXpq8Z     Debit: -8.26198896 BTC      Net amount: -8.26198896 BTC
  44 2012-01-18 00:20:25 <etotheipi_> that's all I see when I double click
  45 2012-01-18 00:20:43 <BlueMatt> so you arent on git head
  46 2012-01-18 00:21:00 <etotheipi_> it's 0.5.0 downloaded from bitcoin.org... I've never even compiled the satoshi client
  47 2012-01-18 00:21:22 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I recently noticed the lack and added it
  48 2012-01-18 00:21:25 <BlueMatt> again its not gonna show up in any released versions
  49 2012-01-18 00:21:47 <BlueMatt> you can grab a built copy of git head at http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/ws/
  50 2012-01-18 00:21:56 <BlueMatt> well only linux and mac
  51 2012-01-18 00:21:59 <BlueMatt> s/mac/win32/
  52 2012-01-18 00:22:05 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
  53 2012-01-18 00:22:15 <etotheipi_> I'm in linux, so that's fine
  54 2012-01-18 00:22:40 <etotheipi_> bitcoin-qt ?
  55 2012-01-18 00:22:43 <BlueMatt> yep
  56 2012-01-18 00:23:41 <etotheipi_> missing libminiupnpc
  57 2012-01-18 00:23:50 <BlueMatt> so install it
  58 2012-01-18 00:23:51 eldentyrell has quit (Quit: eldentyrell)
  59 2012-01-18 00:23:57 <etotheipi_> do I need to compile to run this?
  60 2012-01-18 00:24:04 <BlueMatt> shouldnt
  61 2012-01-18 00:24:14 <BlueMatt> whats the full name of the missing lib
  62 2012-01-18 00:24:17 <etotheipi_> okay, I'll follow the dependencies a little bit
  63 2012-01-18 00:24:18 <BlueMatt> libminiupnpc.so.X
  64 2012-01-18 00:24:25 <etotheipi_> libminiupnpc.so.8
  65 2012-01-18 00:25:17 <BlueMatt> what distro?
  66 2012-01-18 00:25:24 terrytibbs has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  67 2012-01-18 00:25:24 <Joric> http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/stats/timeline The number of Bitcoin client downloads doubled that day
  68 2012-01-18 00:25:41 <BlueMatt> Joric: daaaaaammmmnn
  69 2012-01-18 00:26:01 <gmaxwell> bleh, too bad that 0.5.2 didn't beat it.
  70 2012-01-18 00:26:28 <BlueMatt> agreed
  71 2012-01-18 00:27:32 <doublec> can't you just run it with -server and then do a listtransactions?
  72 2012-01-18 00:27:41 terrytibbs has joined
  73 2012-01-18 00:27:43 <etotheipi_> oh... that might be easier
  74 2012-01-18 00:27:55 <BlueMatt> yea, probably
  75 2012-01-18 00:27:58 <etotheipi_> how do I connect like that, again?
  76 2012-01-18 00:28:04 <etotheipi_> I run bitcoind -server
  77 2012-01-18 00:28:10 <etotheipi_> err.. bitcoind is the server, right?
  78 2012-01-18 00:28:21 <doublec> bitcoind doesn't need -server, it's implicit
  79 2012-01-18 00:28:24 <doublec> so run bitcoind
  80 2012-01-18 00:28:29 <Joric> bitcoin lost 25% of the price it's currently $5.5
  81 2012-01-18 00:28:34 <doublec> then do: "bitcoind listtransactions"
  82 2012-01-18 00:28:49 <doublec> the first instance will be the server
  83 2012-01-18 00:28:58 <doublec> the second one runs as a client, contacting the server for the info
  84 2012-01-18 00:29:01 <Joric> oh 5.8 already
  85 2012-01-18 00:29:18 <etotheipi_> 6acfd032e78a94d7611b5a2b00f190bc0c970224b39817562f3b1f1a7de6c9ee
  86 2012-01-18 00:29:20 <doublec> you can also run your gui as a server
  87 2012-01-18 00:29:25 kobier has joined
  88 2012-01-18 00:29:45 <etotheipi_> that's a good trick... I always wanted to figure out how to get the txids out of the Satoshi client
  89 2012-01-18 00:29:56 marf_away has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  90 2012-01-18 00:30:19 <etotheipi_> so that 6acfd0 is the transaction that went missing
  91 2012-01-18 00:30:54 <doublec> it's not in my node logs
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  94 2012-01-18 00:34:46 <etotheipi_> So what options do I have left, and why did this happen originally?  It appears the only thing stopping me from re-sending is Satoshi client has locked it
  95 2012-01-18 00:35:05 <etotheipi_> it sounds like it constructed what it believed to be a valid tx, but was rejected by the network
  96 2012-01-18 00:41:11 BTC_Bear is now known as BTC_Bear|hbrntng
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 101 2012-01-18 00:42:29 <sipa> the satoshi client regularly resends itself
 102 2012-01-18 00:42:50 <etotheipi_> right, but I believe it's periodically resending a tx that is invalid to other nodes
 103 2012-01-18 00:43:10 <etotheipi_> not sure why no other nodes have the tx in their memory pool
 104 2012-01-18 00:43:18 <sipa> invalid? that shouldn't happen
 105 2012-01-18 00:43:25 SomeoneWeirdzzzz is now known as SomeoneWeird
 106 2012-01-18 00:43:39 <etotheipi_> what other explanation is there?  my client clearly believed it was valid... it locked the TxOuts
 107 2012-01-18 00:43:47 <etotheipi_> but no other node has any record of it
 108 2012-01-18 00:43:51 elkingrey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 109 2012-01-18 00:43:55 <etotheipi_> and the client claims it was broadcast through 102 nodes
 110 2012-01-18 00:43:56 <sipa> try -connecting directly to a miner?
 111 2012-01-18 00:44:46 <sipa> 102? that makes it unlikely
 112 2012-01-18 00:44:57 <etotheipi_> so I need a miner IP address, and then I run the client with ..?
 113 2012-01-18 00:45:16 <sipa> -connect=ip
 114 2012-01-18 00:46:24 <etotheipi_> where do I get a miner's IP?
 115 2012-01-18 00:46:35 <etotheipi_> I've never considered connecting directly
 116 2012-01-18 00:47:11 <BlueMatt> just connect to a wiki fallback nodes
 117 2012-01-18 00:47:19 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,wiki "fallback nodes"
 118 2012-01-18 00:47:20 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Fallback_Nodes | Fallback Nodes. From Bitcoin. Jump to: navigation, search. This is a list of nodes which are considered reliable. Nodes from this list which are down for more ...
 119 2012-01-18 00:48:03 <sipa> i was thinking we should maybe update the hardcoded seed ips
 120 2012-01-18 00:48:25 <BlueMatt> who was the last one to do that?
 121 2012-01-18 00:48:44 <sipa> i believe i can make bitcoin-seeder spit out a list with the highest uptime stats
 122 2012-01-18 00:48:51 <BlueMatt> nanotube
 123 2012-01-18 00:48:57 <BlueMatt> or that
 124 2012-01-18 00:49:16 <BlueMatt> actually, read the commitmsg from https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/bca179e8bd9b9d38a07c16169d70926633ab0bc9
 125 2012-01-18 00:49:33 <BlueMatt> http://dump.bitcoin.it/misc/201201/
 126 2012-01-18 00:50:21 <jine> !"/#(/(!"#... PSJ is br0ken in some way.
 127 2012-01-18 00:50:22 <gribble> Error: "/#(/(!" is not a valid command.
 128 2012-01-18 00:50:35 <jine> I'm having serious issues since about an hour back :C
 129 2012-01-18 00:51:55 elkingrey has joined
 130 2012-01-18 00:52:29 <sipa> psj?
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 148 2012-01-18 01:28:49 <TuxBlackEdo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OztVYTS_Ei8
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 155 2012-01-18 01:40:04 <BlueMatt> TuxBlackEdo: nice
 156 2012-01-18 01:41:05 <BlueMatt> wait devrandom has been here since januarg
 157 2012-01-18 01:42:55 thesheff17 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 158 2012-01-18 01:46:33 amtal has joined
 159 2012-01-18 01:54:26 <devrandom> BlueMatt: ?
 160 2012-01-18 01:55:29 <BlueMatt> devrandom: you showed up in git in like january
 161 2012-01-18 01:55:30 <devrandom> sipa: I slightly changed the desc locally to rm -rf $HOME/qt
 162 2012-01-18 01:55:36 <BlueMatt> or was it feb, anyway it was early
 163 2012-01-18 01:55:43 <devrandom> 2010?
 164 2012-01-18 01:55:47 <BlueMatt> 2011
 165 2012-01-18 01:55:55 <devrandom> I meant 2011...
 166 2012-01-18 01:56:04 <BlueMatt> yea
 167 2012-01-18 01:56:06 <devrandom> I'm surprised, I thought it was later
 168 2012-01-18 01:56:13 <BlueMatt> I thought I saw you in that video...
 169 2012-01-18 01:56:23 <BlueMatt> and I dont feel like looking up git commands to find out
 170 2012-01-18 01:56:52 <devrandom> video?
 171 2012-01-18 01:57:00 <BlueMatt> the one TuxBlackEdo linked
 172 2012-01-18 01:58:09 <devrandom> ah, cool
 173 2012-01-18 01:58:29 <devrandom> 1 Feb 2011
 174 2012-01-18 01:58:39 <devrandom> (git log, go to end, look backwards for devrandom)
 175 2012-01-18 01:58:39 <BlueMatt> damn
 176 2012-01-18 01:59:47 <devrandom> maybe we'll actually have people use the gitian downloader this year :-P
 177 2012-01-18 02:00:25 <BlueMatt> when I have a ton of free time, finish cblockstore, and eventually port bitcoin-win32 to use it as an auto-update mechanism...
 178 2012-01-18 02:03:51 theymos has joined
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 180 2012-01-18 02:06:24 <BlueMatt> damn, I didnt show up until March 5...
 181 2012-01-18 02:11:53 jimmy__ has joined
 182 2012-01-18 02:12:14 <jimmy__> Hey guys, is this the appropriate channel to ask about a build error when I'm trying to build bitcoind ?
 183 2012-01-18 02:12:37 <BlueMatt> Id guess so
 184 2012-01-18 02:12:58 roconnor has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 185 2012-01-18 02:13:24 <jimmy__> I'm running 64-bit CentOS on a VPS. And I've got my makefile.centos in my directory. I grabbed the Bitcoin source from git. I'm getting this error message - make: *** No rule to make target `obj/util.o', needed by `bitcoind'.  Stop.
 186 2012-01-18 02:14:01 <BlueMatt> you are using a 3rd party makefile that isnt up to date with the current git head
 187 2012-01-18 02:14:04 <BlueMatt> or so Id guess
 188 2012-01-18 02:14:36 <jimmy__> You're probably correct, is there a location I can find a newer one at
 189 2012-01-18 02:14:49 <jimmy__> The one I got is from a forums post on July 2011
 190 2012-01-18 02:14:51 <BlueMatt> use the makefile.unix provided in the source
 191 2012-01-18 02:15:14 <jimmy__> Gotcha.
 192 2012-01-18 02:15:29 <jimmy__> And do I run it within the src/ directory ? Or rather from there.
 193 2012-01-18 02:15:34 <BlueMatt> src
 194 2012-01-18 02:15:43 phantomfake has joined
 195 2012-01-18 02:17:51 <nanotube> BlueMatt: i'm working on it presently
 196 2012-01-18 02:18:19 <BlueMatt> nanotube: on win32 autoupdate via gitian?
 197 2012-01-18 02:19:07 <nanotube> BlueMatt: no seednodes update
 198 2012-01-18 02:19:18 <BlueMatt> oh, ok nice tell sipa that
 199 2012-01-18 02:20:36 <jimmy__> BlueMatt: One last question, how can I specify the DEPS folder?
 200 2012-01-18 02:21:16 <jimmy__> ie. where I've stored OpenSSL, boost, BDB, etc.
 201 2012-01-18 02:22:26 <BlueMatt> CXXFLAGS=-O2 -I/path/to/deps/include/ -L/path/to/deps/libfolder/with/lib*/in/it make -f makefile.unix
 202 2012-01-18 02:23:17 <jimmy__> Gotcha, thanks.
 203 2012-01-18 02:23:35 <BlueMatt> should work, check it
 204 2012-01-18 02:23:39 <jimmy__> Yeh
 205 2012-01-18 02:25:47 occulta has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
 206 2012-01-18 02:30:20 <BlueMatt> http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/17/2713814/elevator-source-simulator-mod-multiplayer-parody oh wow thats great
 207 2012-01-18 02:30:35 <luke-jr> nanotube: upload 0.5.2 for us?
 208 2012-01-18 02:31:07 jimmy__ has quit (Quit: leaving)
 209 2012-01-18 02:31:13 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I don't think that will work, you have the order backward
 210 2012-01-18 02:31:32 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: it will work either way, as an env var or as a make var
 211 2012-01-18 02:31:34 <luke-jr> make -f makefile.unix CXXFLAGS=-O2 BDB_INCLUDE_PATH=/usr/include/db4.8 <-- try that
 212 2012-01-18 02:31:47 <BlueMatt> he just said it worked
 213 2012-01-18 02:31:48 <luke-jr> actually, can probably leave out the CXXFLAGS
 214 2012-01-18 02:32:10 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it might work, but might also make problems for the -fstack-protector and crap
 215 2012-01-18 02:32:35 <BlueMatt> will it, i only mostly read like 1 line to see what var might work
 216 2012-01-18 02:33:13 <BlueMatt> why would it break the HARDENING stuff, that is all in CXXFLAGSx
 217 2012-01-18 02:33:20 <BlueMatt> no xCXXFLAGS
 218 2012-01-18 02:35:14 <luke-jr> I forget
 219 2012-01-18 02:37:07 <theymos> I don't think setting an environment variable like that will work, since the definition of that variable in the makefile will take precedence.
 220 2012-01-18 02:38:07 <BlueMatt> again, the guy said it worked
 221 2012-01-18 02:38:08 * luke-jr pokes nanotube
 222 2012-01-18 02:38:28 <BlueMatt> no guarantees  on any system other that that guy's
 223 2012-01-18 02:40:42 <nanotube> luke-jr: has gavin given his ok on 0.5.2?
 224 2012-01-18 02:41:04 <luke-jr> nanotube: http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2012/01/17/7
 225 2012-01-18 02:41:09 Wrz has joined
 226 2012-01-18 02:42:05 <luke-jr> nanotube: he said he'd be comfortable with it, if I could identify the cause of the differences between BlueMatt and devrandom's builds; then sipa's finished after he left, identical to devrandom's
 227 2012-01-18 02:42:25 <BlueMatt> meh, upload it
 228 2012-01-18 02:42:49 <luke-jr> nanotube: IMO, if BlueMatt ~= devrandom was good enough provided I could identify the cause of difference, devrandom == sipa should be fine
 229 2012-01-18 02:43:02 <BlueMatt> I probably used bad inputs
 230 2012-01-18 02:43:10 <nanotube> ok, where do i get fileset to upload?
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 237 2012-01-18 02:45:37 <luke-jr> nanotube: http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/bitcoin-0.5.2/
 238 2012-01-18 02:45:51 <luke-jr> nanotube: note there are hidden files: README.txt & README.bb
 239 2012-01-18 02:45:59 <luke-jr> probably don't need to upload the .bb, that's for the forum
 240 2012-01-18 02:47:02 <nanotube> yea
 241 2012-01-18 02:47:08 <useryhh> hi, translation will be updated too?
 242 2012-01-18 02:47:35 <devrandom> BlueMatt: luke-jr: I uploaded my qt build to https://gitian.org/qt-win32-4.7.4-gitian.zip
 243 2012-01-18 02:47:41 <devrandom> if that helps
 244 2012-01-18 02:47:46 <devrandom> bbl
 245 2012-01-18 02:47:47 <BlueMatt> oh, luke-jr you need to update translations before pushing that...
 246 2012-01-18 02:48:16 <luke-jr> useryhh: doubt it…
 247 2012-01-18 02:48:22 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: too late
 248 2012-01-18 02:48:35 * nanotube hangs out while you guys figure it out....
 249 2012-01-18 02:48:37 <luke-jr> if they were in master in time, they should be in 0.5.2
 250 2012-01-18 02:48:37 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: not really
 251 2012-01-18 02:48:38 <useryhh> hum
 252 2012-01-18 02:48:47 <luke-jr> nanotube: it's all ready
 253 2012-01-18 02:49:00 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: tcatm updates the translations before each release
 254 2012-01-18 02:49:13 <luke-jr> well, he didn't this time
 255 2012-01-18 02:50:19 <BlueMatt> meh, whatever but in the future ping tcatm
 256 2012-01-18 02:50:23 <BlueMatt> (please)
 257 2012-01-18 02:51:55 <luke-jr> should be added to release-process.txt …
 258 2012-01-18 02:52:07 <luke-jr> only new strings in 0.5.2 are: "Don't find peers using internet relay chat\n" and "Received from"
 259 2012-01-18 02:52:10 <BlueMatt> it isnt?
 260 2012-01-18 02:52:22 jimrandomh has joined
 261 2012-01-18 02:52:28 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: not that I saw/see
 262 2012-01-18 02:52:54 <BlueMatt> mmm, well pull request that
 263 2012-01-18 02:58:53 <luke-jr> tcatm: are you around btw?
 264 2012-01-18 02:59:10 <luke-jr> theymos: how about you?
 265 2012-01-18 02:59:40 <theymos> I am around.
 266 2012-01-18 03:00:05 <luke-jr> theymos: anything special needed to update forum? or just post?
 267 2012-01-18 03:00:22 <luke-jr> release-process.txt just says 'update forum' -.-
 268 2012-01-18 03:00:33 <BlueMatt> mmm, well that needs fixed
 269 2012-01-18 03:00:37 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: luke-jr opened pull request 764 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/764>
 270 2012-01-18 03:01:01 <theymos> The latest release is listed in the "news" section and needs to be updated. Let me know when a download link is available and I'll update it.
 271 2012-01-18 03:01:24 <luke-jr> theymos: ok, hopefully it will be tonight
 272 2012-01-18 03:01:34 <luke-jr> theymos: do we need to wait until the bitcoin.org is updated, before forum?
 273 2012-01-18 03:01:47 <theymos> No.
 274 2012-01-18 03:02:21 <BlueMatt> as long as its on sf, oh but you are gonna need gavin's pgp sig on the forum post, but I guess that can wait till after the release as well
 275 2012-01-18 03:02:33 <BlueMatt> (the sig can happen after the post)
 276 2012-01-18 03:03:00 <luke-jr> /me doesn't recall seeing Gavin's sig on any forum posts O.o
 277 2012-01-18 03:03:09 * luke-jr wonders how that got sent as "/me"
 278 2012-01-18 03:03:20 <BlueMatt> really, I thought i did, maybe Im dreaming that though
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 280 2012-01-18 03:04:17 <theymos> I think I remember him signing the hashes.
 281 2012-01-18 03:05:34 <luke-jr> theymos: but the forum post? O.o
 282 2012-01-18 03:06:21 <Diablo-D3> meh
 283 2012-01-18 03:06:26 <Diablo-D3> I need to quit using midstate
 284 2012-01-18 03:06:35 <Diablo-D3> but I need to go remember what order I have to call shit in
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 288 2012-01-18 03:08:58 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: especially since midstate is deprecated
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 292 2012-01-18 03:09:30 <Diablo-D3> well, I have a function named, I think, sharound
 293 2012-01-18 03:09:33 <Diablo-D3> which has a very obvious usage
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 301 2012-01-18 03:10:10 <Diablo-D3> either I or someone else just has to put the right ones in the right order
 302 2012-01-18 03:10:16 <Diablo-D3> and produce the midstate normally
 303 2012-01-18 03:11:01 <k9quaint> well, realsolid finally got around to banning me from his channel
 304 2012-01-18 03:11:09 <k9quaint> (after I was idle in it for 7 days)
 305 2012-01-18 03:15:00 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * rebe21db3dc4a cgminer/util.c: Advertise that we can make our own midstate, so the pool can skip generating it for us http://tinyurl.com/6opvp23
 306 2012-01-18 03:15:01 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * rc077eea29ee7 cgminer/util.c: Merge pull request #72 from luke-jr/adv_midstate http://tinyurl.com/7hkah3a
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 311 2012-01-18 03:23:59 <BlueMatt> heh, big bang theory fucked up, raj pulled the jenga block twice in a row
 312 2012-01-18 03:24:20 <Diablo-D3> ...
 313 2012-01-18 03:24:25 * Diablo-D3 smacks bluematt
 314 2012-01-18 03:24:32 <BlueMatt> dont like the big bang theory?
 315 2012-01-18 03:24:39 <BlueMatt> Ill admit Im pretty damn bored...
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 317 2012-01-18 03:26:16 <Diablo-D3> its a horrid fucking show
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 319 2012-01-18 03:26:40 <BlueMatt> meh its not /that/ bad
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 322 2012-01-18 03:42:54 <Diablo-D3> okay so
 323 2012-01-18 03:43:01 <Diablo-D3> Im trying to turn windows into useful
 324 2012-01-18 03:43:08 <TuxBlackEdo> doors?
 325 2012-01-18 03:43:16 <Diablo-D3> I have jdk, kernel analyzer, sdk 2.6
 326 2012-01-18 03:43:36 <Diablo-D3> I need to figure out what Im going to do about git
 327 2012-01-18 03:44:22 <luke-jr> [21:10:57] <forrestv> there are p2pool nodes at both 85.247.9.10 and 127.247.9.10…
 328 2012-01-18 03:44:24 <luke-jr> lol
 329 2012-01-18 03:44:48 <Folklore> luke-jr
 330 2012-01-18 03:44:51 <Folklore> fight sopa man
 331 2012-01-18 03:44:57 <luke-jr> Folklore: no. shoo.
 332 2012-01-18 03:45:00 <Diablo-D3> so what else should I do?
 333 2012-01-18 03:45:13 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: google git windows
 334 2012-01-18 03:45:14 <Folklore> oh forgot you're all about the dmca
 335 2012-01-18 03:45:24 <Diablo-D3> blueMatt: but I need a command line
 336 2012-01-18 03:45:27 <luke-jr> nanotube: how's it coming?
 337 2012-01-18 03:45:40 <Diablo-D3> mingw+msys maybe?
 338 2012-01-18 03:45:55 <Diablo-D3> and then I need to see if I can get some working vim on windows
 339 2012-01-18 03:45:59 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: install Gentoo GNU/Windows
 340 2012-01-18 03:46:03 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: maybe, never bothered to use windows for development, seriously wtf would you want to do that?
 341 2012-01-18 03:46:19 <Diablo-D3> bluematt: cant get kernel analyzer working right in linux
 342 2012-01-18 03:46:36 <forrestv> luke-jr, stop quoting me, i was tired :P
 343 2012-01-18 03:48:07 <luke-jr> forrestv: but it's funny!
 344 2012-01-18 03:48:24 <Diablo-D3> [10:39:34] <luke-jr> [21:10:57] <forrestv> there are p2pool nodes at both 85.247.9.10 and 127.247.9.10…
 345 2012-01-18 03:48:30 <Diablo-D3> home sweet home
 346 2012-01-18 03:48:33 <Folklore> anyone have stats on linux users downloads for bitcoin client?
 347 2012-01-18 03:48:42 <luke-jr> Folklore: SourceForge does
 348 2012-01-18 03:48:51 <luke-jr> Folklore: doubled after The Good Wife
 349 2012-01-18 03:48:55 <BlueMatt> <Diablo-D3> [10:39:34] <luke-jr> [21:10:57] <forrestv> there are p2pool nodes at both 85.247.9.10 and 127.247.9.10…
 350 2012-01-18 03:49:05 <BlueMatt> lets just tag everyone in one pointless message
 351 2012-01-18 03:49:10 <luke-jr> [22:44:07] <BlueMatt> <Diablo-D3> [10:39:34] <luke-jr> [21:10:57] <forrestv> there are p2pool nodes at both 85.247.9.10 and 127.247.9.10…
 352 2012-01-18 03:49:21 <Diablo-D3> [10:44:22] <luke-jr> [22:44:07] <BlueMatt> <Diablo-D3> [10:39:34] <luke-jr> [21:10:57] <forrestv> there are p2pool nodes at both 85.247.9.10 and 127.247.9.10…
 353 2012-01-18 03:49:34 <Diablo-D3> AHAHAHA
 354 2012-01-18 03:49:35 <Diablo-D3> HOLY SHIT
 355 2012-01-18 03:49:42 <Diablo-D3> windows thinks diablominer is potentially harmful!
 356 2012-01-18 03:50:02 <luke-jr> it is
 357 2012-01-18 03:50:28 <BlueMatt> windows thinks everything is harmful (except viruses, those just get around the "protection")
 358 2012-01-18 03:50:35 <Diablo-D3> Program:Win32/BitCOinMiner
 359 2012-01-18 03:50:44 <Diablo-D3> Program:MacOS_X/BitCoinMiner
 360 2012-01-18 03:50:49 <Diablo-D3> Program:Linux/BitCoinMiner
 361 2012-01-18 03:50:56 <Diablo-D3> Program:Solaris/BitCoinMiner
 362 2012-01-18 03:50:58 <Diablo-D3> lololol
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 364 2012-01-18 03:53:42 <Diablo-D3> I think Im going to send a DMCA to Microsoft
 365 2012-01-18 03:53:47 <TuxBlackEdo> Diablo-D3,
 366 2012-01-18 03:53:52 <TuxBlackEdo> bitcoin miner?
 367 2012-01-18 03:53:53 <BlueMatt> heh, sue their ass
 368 2012-01-18 03:53:56 <TuxBlackEdo> are you kidding me
 369 2012-01-18 03:54:03 <TuxBlackEdo> it's all about realcoin nowadays
 370 2012-01-18 03:54:04 <Diablo-D3> and by DMCA, I mean luke them.
 371 2012-01-18 03:55:10 <cjdelisle> Luke 'em
 372 2012-01-18 03:56:09 <luke-jr> TuxBlackEdo: are you onboard for takedown of Realcoin?
 373 2012-01-18 03:56:23 <[Tycho]> What is Realcoin ?
 374 2012-01-18 03:56:36 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: latest scamcoin
 375 2012-01-18 03:56:37 <BlueMatt> is it merged-mined?
 376 2012-01-18 03:56:41 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no
 377 2012-01-18 03:56:49 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: which means it'd be expensive if I did it alone
 378 2012-01-18 03:56:54 <Folklore> wikipedia about to write article on solidcoin, tried to give link about lukes dmca stuff
 379 2012-01-18 03:56:55 <BlueMatt> heh, ofc not the scamcoins keep getting worse...
 380 2012-01-18 03:56:56 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it's also closed source
 381 2012-01-18 03:57:00 <Folklore> but has some weird guy singing anti-sopa stuff
 382 2012-01-18 03:57:01 <[Tycho]> Some new coin spawned and died when I was sleeping again ? :)
 383 2012-01-18 03:57:08 <TuxBlackEdo> yes luke-jr
 384 2012-01-18 03:57:14 <TuxBlackEdo> i am onboard to take realcoin down
 385 2012-01-18 03:57:15 <luke-jr> Folklore: Solidcoin isn't notable.
 386 2012-01-18 03:57:20 <Folklore> I think bitcoin and similar is healthy, helps grow the ecosystem
 387 2012-01-18 03:57:26 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: it's scheduled to spawn in a week or so
 388 2012-01-18 03:58:15 <[Tycho]> Actually I don't really care about altcoins at all. Especially about useless ones. I'm not even using merged mining.
 389 2012-01-18 03:58:40 <[Tycho]> May be the namecoin is the one not so useless :)
 390 2012-01-18 03:58:51 <Folklore> if you think about it, bitcoins an alt as well
 391 2012-01-18 03:58:59 <Folklore> since the original author and his direction left a long time ago
 392 2012-01-18 03:59:09 <Folklore> so rather silly putting down other projects
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 394 2012-01-18 04:02:34 <TuxBlackEdo> Folklore, stfu
 395 2012-01-18 04:04:15 <Folklore> it's true my friend
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 402 2012-01-18 04:14:30 <MC1984> [Tycho] why dont you MM?
 403 2012-01-18 04:15:57 <[Tycho]> It would require code modification, but doesn't gets me any profit from this.
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 405 2012-01-18 04:20:24 <MC1984> nmc is worth money?
 406 2012-01-18 04:20:59 <BlueMatt> barely
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 569 2012-01-18 07:16:21 <Diablo-D3> FINALLY
 570 2012-01-18 07:16:25 <Diablo-D3> I got app profiler to work
 571 2012-01-18 07:16:26 <Diablo-D3> lawlz
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 673 2012-01-18 13:24:03 <sipa> nanotube: how do you mean, no seednodes update?
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 736 2012-01-18 16:38:31 <finway> Really? genjix start a scamcoin? Realcoin?
 737 2012-01-18 16:39:03 <finway> because of what? sopa?
 738 2012-01-18 16:39:07 danbri has joined
 739 2012-01-18 16:39:39 <finway> And Tycho is against Gavin?
 740 2012-01-18 16:39:55 <finway> What a mess
 741 2012-01-18 16:39:58 <luke-jr> finway: genjix wrote code for pay. nothing more.
 742 2012-01-18 16:40:07 <luke-jr> finway: interested in the takedown? I can't do this one alone
 743 2012-01-18 16:40:19 <finway> not interested.
 744 2012-01-18 16:40:44 <finway> your pool looks unstable.
 745 2012-01-18 16:41:13 <luke-jr> it's under attack again.
 746 2012-01-18 16:41:23 <finway> As this coin is not mm, are you using users power?
 747 2012-01-18 16:41:24 <luke-jr> #eligius for the latest
 748 2012-01-18 16:41:34 <luke-jr> finway: I'm looking for volunteers to assist.
 749 2012-01-18 16:43:35 <finway> I dont like this situation, we should move on, not stuck by some nonsense "special case" issue.
 750 2012-01-18 16:43:54 <finway> especially pools vs dev
 751 2012-01-18 16:44:33 <finway> That's not cool
 752 2012-01-18 16:44:34 <finway> especially "centralized" pool vs dev
 753 2012-01-18 16:45:40 p0s has joined
 754 2012-01-18 16:46:52 <finway> I think when p2pool grow big, i'll move to that,  at least , i can support Gavin.
 755 2012-01-18 16:46:56 <luke-jr> finway: I agree, but Gavin insists on ignoring solutions and pushing forward with flawed designs
 756 2012-01-18 16:47:54 booo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 757 2012-01-18 16:47:58 <finway> I don't know, OP_EVAL is too good, P2SH is too bad, and CHV is just fine?
 758 2012-01-18 16:48:06 <luke-jr> hopefully when his vote date comes and goes without support, he'll reconsider
 759 2012-01-18 16:48:16 <luke-jr> CHV seems to be the best so far
 760 2012-01-18 16:48:27 <luke-jr> piuk has some ideas, but I'm not sure anything usable yet
 761 2012-01-18 16:48:55 <finway> Gavin dont think so.
 762 2012-01-18 16:48:58 <helo> who on earth would want to attack luke-jr?
 763 2012-01-18 16:49:44 <helo> maybe satan...
 764 2012-01-18 16:49:52 <luke-jr> finway: Gavin isn't perfect, nor unbiased.
 765 2012-01-18 16:50:38 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 766 2012-01-18 16:50:41 <finway> I thought P2SH is supported by majority of core devs
 767 2012-01-18 16:51:14 <finway> but Tycho with "his" biggest pool reject it.
 768 2012-01-18 16:51:27 <finway> It's not cool, pool vs dev
 769 2012-01-18 16:51:54 <finway> Pool should act Decentralized.
 770 2012-01-18 16:52:05 <finway> not monoply
 771 2012-01-18 16:53:06 <alexwaters1> luke-jr: vote date for Gavin? what is that?
 772 2012-01-18 16:53:20 <alexwaters1> who thinks they can do better?
 773 2012-01-18 16:54:39 <luke-jr> finway: while there might be a majority of devs who will support BIP16, most of them also agree CHV (which is also P2SH) is better
 774 2012-01-18 16:55:08 <luke-jr> alexwaters1: Gavin is having miners vote on BIP16 mid-February
 775 2012-01-18 16:55:15 <luke-jr> I forget which day
 776 2012-01-18 16:55:26 WakiMiko has joined
 777 2012-01-18 16:55:34 <finway> I think old clients don't verify CHV txes?  at least P2SH does.
 778 2012-01-18 16:55:56 <luke-jr> thankfully, I have confirmed a significant amount of hashrate will not be supporting BIP16
 779 2012-01-18 16:55:57 <alexwaters1> luke-jrt: thanks I thought you were talking about something completely different
 780 2012-01-18 16:56:04 <finway> That's one think why P2SH is better than OP_EVAL
 781 2012-01-18 16:56:08 <luke-jr> finway: old clients don't verify any P2SH transactions
 782 2012-01-18 16:56:31 <luke-jr> finway: OP_EVAL and BIP16 do a basic check that the provided code is correct, but they don't do the actual verification in it
 783 2012-01-18 16:56:51 <luke-jr> finway: there is no significant improvement by this check
 784 2012-01-18 16:57:22 <luke-jr> the only vulnerability is if you have an old client and accept zero-confirmation transactions
 785 2012-01-18 16:57:26 <luke-jr> which has never been recommended
 786 2012-01-18 16:57:43 <luke-jr> also, since old clients can't receive these transactions anyway, it's not even plausable
 787 2012-01-18 16:58:42 <luke-jr> there's a VERY remote possibility a 1-confirmed transaction might get reversed for an old client, but that's already possible with orphans
 788 2012-01-18 16:59:00 <luke-jr> (in fact, the chance of an orphan reversal is greater than this chance)
 789 2012-01-18 16:59:09 <finway> Then why Gavin leave for a few days, and still don't suport CHV?
 790 2012-01-18 16:59:27 <luke-jr> he seems to think he has majority hashpower behind BIP16, so doesn't care about anything else
 791 2012-01-18 16:59:32 <luke-jr> no idea where he got that idea
 792 2012-01-18 16:59:57 <CIA-76> bitcoin: m0mchil * raee208751d97 poclbm/ (BitcoinMiner.py HttpTransport.py Transport.py): fixed problem with referencing non-existent 'failure' method http://tinyurl.com/7wjwz53
 793 2012-01-18 16:59:58 <CIA-76> bitcoin: m0mchil * r7bddecbe9531 poclbm/ (Transport.py poclbm.py): unsuccessfully trying to parse server strings with urlsplit http://tinyurl.com/7s2zefw
 794 2012-01-18 17:00:00 <CIA-76> bitcoin: m0mchil * r5e994e7af4ae poclbm/ (HttpTransport.py Transport.py poclbm.py socks.py): proxy support http://tinyurl.com/72wvm2k
 795 2012-01-18 17:00:01 <CIA-76> bitcoin: m0mchil * r425639c5ad4c poclbm/BitcoinMiner.py: BFI_INT patch only specific devices http://tinyurl.com/89jqx9d
 796 2012-01-18 17:00:15 * Eliel wonders why Gavin feels to be in so much of a hurry to push this one out.
 797 2012-01-18 17:01:11 <gmaxwell> Eliel: because we've been working on this since october, it isn't a hurry. And because there will be a 6-9 month delay once its out before it's safely usable by most users.
 798 2012-01-18 17:01:15 marf_away has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 799 2012-01-18 17:01:59 <gmaxwell> Eliel: It's not gavins fault that people started caring months after the code was written and people who'd been around considered it more or less settled.
 800 2012-01-18 17:02:08 <gmaxwell> (not that it's really anyone elses fault either, it just is)
 801 2012-01-18 17:02:22 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: if it was settled on OP_EVAL, it'd be fine with me…
 802 2012-01-18 17:02:48 <gmaxwell> guess what! more people need to be happy than you! :)
 803 2012-01-18 17:02:53 <luke-jr> :P
 804 2012-01-18 17:02:57 <finway> I just dont' see a big difference between P2SH and CHV, Gavin compromised on OP_EVAL, so you can't compromise on CHV?
 805 2012-01-18 17:02:58 <luke-jr> CHV makes everyone happy I think
 806 2012-01-18 17:03:07 <finway> at least, he's the core dev
 807 2012-01-18 17:03:22 <helo> "nobody cared before, they have no right to care now!" - SOPA Supporters
 808 2012-01-18 17:03:33 <luke-jr> finway: that doesn't really make sense
 809 2012-01-18 17:03:42 <k9quaint> I was hoping SOPA would pass, and the internet would leave the US
 810 2012-01-18 17:04:08 <k9quaint> it would be painful for a few years, but afterwards probably much more stable
 811 2012-01-18 17:04:13 <luke-jr> finway: BIP16 breaks the Bitcoin protocol
 812 2012-01-18 17:04:30 <luke-jr> finway: also, please stop confusing P2SH (which describes OP_EVAL, BIP16, and CHV) with BIP16 :p
 813 2012-01-18 17:04:33 <alexwaters1> lol, nothing changes...
 814 2012-01-18 17:04:43 <luke-jr> it doesn't help the conversation progress to guess which one people mean
 815 2012-01-18 17:04:58 <finway> I know i know /P2SH/
 816 2012-01-18 17:05:17 <luke-jr> most people here have settled on 'BIP16'
 817 2012-01-18 17:05:34 larsivi has joined
 818 2012-01-18 17:05:50 <gmaxwell> helo: I wasn't discounting the complaints.
 819 2012-01-18 17:05:53 BlueMatt has joined
 820 2012-01-18 17:06:21 <helo> yeah i know... just reminded me of the crappy argument for SOPA
 821 2012-01-18 17:06:47 <luke-jr> what Gavin doesn't realize, is that by ignoring other solutions, he's just delaying P2SH further since BIP16 won't get the miner voting support
 822 2012-01-18 17:06:52 <helo> today is "bring up sopa hate" day :)
 823 2012-01-18 17:07:02 * luke-jr should see if Tycho would back CHV
 824 2012-01-18 17:07:06 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: ping? :P
 825 2012-01-18 17:07:16 <[Tycho]> Hello.
 826 2012-01-18 17:07:40 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: have you read up CHV yet?
 827 2012-01-18 17:08:02 <[Tycho]> Yes, but I can't remember what it was about.
 828 2012-01-18 17:08:50 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: basically, a new opcode that simply checks the hash of the end of scriptSig matches the one on the stack
 829 2012-01-18 17:09:00 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: no evaluation, special-casing, or any other funny business
 830 2012-01-18 17:09:18 <[Tycho]> Scripts are cool, but as I said, I don't like the fact that those things will require out-of-blockchain communication between sender and receiver.
 831 2012-01-18 17:09:57 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: why woudl they?
 832 2012-01-18 17:10:01 <finway> OMG
 833 2012-01-18 17:10:25 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 834 2012-01-18 17:10:33 <[Tycho]> I see some conflict there and people are supporting Gavin, so I'm thinking that it may be better to wait until problem solves itself.
 835 2012-01-18 17:11:05 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: the problem won't solve itself. can you elaborate on this OOB communication?
 836 2012-01-18 17:11:25 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: the whole point of P2SH in general (ie, all 3 BIPs) is to avoid OOB communciation
 837 2012-01-18 17:11:29 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: how would the receiver know that this TX is sending money to him ?
 838 2012-01-18 17:11:44 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: the receiver knows his own addresses, just like now…
 839 2012-01-18 17:11:56 <makomk> [Tycho]: all the solutions require pretty much the same kinds of OOB communication, I think.
 840 2012-01-18 17:12:23 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: but the sending TX doesn't contains it ?
 841 2012-01-18 17:12:44 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: the sending tx contains the scripthash required to redeem it
 842 2012-01-18 17:13:02 <[Tycho]> Ok, but the receiver don't knows the script.
 843 2012-01-18 17:13:10 <luke-jr> the receiver created the script initially
 844 2012-01-18 17:13:17 <luke-jr> part of getnewaddress (or equivalent)
 845 2012-01-18 17:13:24 <[Tycho]> Oh, that.
 846 2012-01-18 17:13:46 <luke-jr> 'getnewaddress' creates a script, hashes it, and tells the user the address
 847 2012-01-18 17:13:53 <luke-jr> that user communicates the address to another user, just like now
 848 2012-01-18 17:13:54 gavinandresen has joined
 849 2012-01-18 17:13:58 <luke-jr> the other user pays to the address
 850 2012-01-18 17:14:27 <[Tycho]> It generates this script as multisig for his wallet and his second device, right ?
 851 2012-01-18 17:14:43 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: that's one possibility, yes
 852 2012-01-18 17:14:45 <helo> so if the script is a 2-of-3... only 1 of 3 will know the contents of the script?
 853 2012-01-18 17:14:58 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: how the receiver wants his redemption script to be, is up to him and his client
 854 2012-01-18 17:16:25 <[Tycho]> I'm worried a bit because your poll at the forum shows that most users are supporting P2SH. I know that they don't understand it and they aren't miners at all, but I don't like to oppose the majority.
 855 2012-01-18 17:16:32 <Eliel> what problems would OP_EVAL have left if the recursion depth was restricted to just one level?
 856 2012-01-18 17:17:02 occulta has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
 857 2012-01-18 17:17:25 <[Tycho]> Also I think that recursion depth and script limits should be hardcoded in a unavoidable way, not by static analysis.
 858 2012-01-18 17:17:48 <gavinandresen> Hey [Tycho] -- are you still thinking about p2sh ?
 859 2012-01-18 17:18:09 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: don't worry about the poll, it's clearly messed up based on the two control options
 860 2012-01-18 17:18:20 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: options 1 and 2 are fairly absurd, yet have lots of votes
 861 2012-01-18 17:18:31 <[Tycho]> gavinandresen: I don't like P2SH because it adds a special case, not covered by opcodes.
 862 2012-01-18 17:18:32 Folklore has joined
 863 2012-01-18 17:18:42 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: no, they aren't.
 864 2012-01-18 17:18:57 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: using complete long addresses is not absurd.
 865 2012-01-18 17:19:07 <[Tycho]> I can understand this option.
 866 2012-01-18 17:19:22 <Folklore> you know what I see around the internet today?
 867 2012-01-18 17:19:32 <gavinandresen> [Tycho]: is that just an "it doesn't feel right" concern, or do you see some problem that I don't?
 868 2012-01-18 17:19:35 <[Tycho]> Other thing I don't like is serialized script form.
 869 2012-01-18 17:19:37 <Folklore> a global protest, google, wikipedia,craigslist, and thousands of others
 870 2012-01-18 17:19:42 <Folklore> you know what I don't see?
 871 2012-01-18 17:19:50 <Folklore> bitcoin.org nor bitcoin talk doing anythig
 872 2012-01-18 17:19:55 <Folklore> way to represent guys
 873 2012-01-18 17:20:24 <Folklore> keep in mind congress mentioned namecoin by name and are full aware of bitcoin, and if these bills passed bitcoin could easily go bye bye
 874 2012-01-18 17:20:52 <Eliel> won't go by by, that's for sure.
 875 2012-01-18 17:21:11 <[Tycho]> gavinandresen: we should either have normal scripts or set of special cases, not a mix of both.
 876 2012-01-18 17:21:36 <luke-jr> IMO, normal scripts or a single "special case"
 877 2012-01-18 17:22:00 <gavinandresen> [Tycho]: would you support a patch that "discouraged" building on top of blocks that contained non-standard transactions?
 878 2012-01-18 17:22:00 <Folklore> Eliel if US makes it illegal, bitcoin use will dwindle into obscurity
 879 2012-01-18 17:22:17 <Folklore> I was really expecting bitcoin to have a link, something to anti-sopa etc...
 880 2012-01-18 17:22:24 <Eliel> Folklore: no, I think you're wrong.
 881 2012-01-18 17:22:25 <[Tycho]> "discouraged" in what sense ?
 882 2012-01-18 17:22:49 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: that would be evil
 883 2012-01-18 17:23:00 <[Tycho]> Something tells me you are trying to make a fork in a hard way.
 884 2012-01-18 17:23:01 <gavinandresen> [Tycho]: "discourage" in the sense that you pretend you never see the initial new block announcement-- you don't relay it, you don't build on top of it.  But if it gets to be part of the longest chain, you accept it.
 885 2012-01-18 17:23:09 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: "discouraged" is the term for "try to orphan"
 886 2012-01-18 17:23:52 <finway> OMG
 887 2012-01-18 17:23:53 <[Tycho]> gavinandresen: does it means that with this patch all P2SH adopters will be left in the orphan branch ?
 888 2012-01-18 17:24:33 <finway> OMG
 889 2012-01-18 17:24:37 <gavinandresen> No, not if P2SH were the majority-- then the non-P2SH would be left in the orphan branch
 890 2012-01-18 17:25:09 <gavinandresen> I'm just asking, I'm not proposing anything.  Reacting to "there should be either ONLY standard transactions OR anything, not a mix of both"
 891 2012-01-18 17:25:29 <[Tycho]> Since P2SH is in minority now, I think it's safe enough already.
 892 2012-01-18 17:25:42 <gavinandresen> I'm pretty sure P2SH will have a majority by Feb 1
 893 2012-01-18 17:25:57 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: I'm pretty sure it won't.
 894 2012-01-18 17:26:14 <luke-jr> after having discussed it with multiple major pools
 895 2012-01-18 17:26:19 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: why are you against forward progress?
 896 2012-01-18 17:26:20 <finway> Let's start the campaign
 897 2012-01-18 17:26:25 <finway> p2pool campaign
 898 2012-01-18 17:26:30 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: I'm not. BIP16 is broken.
 899 2012-01-18 17:26:39 <gavinandresen> How is BIP 16 broken, specifically?
 900 2012-01-18 17:26:46 <finway> i don't like monoply pools.
 901 2012-01-18 17:27:12 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: it makes a magic special case, or "standard transaction" part of the protocol
 902 2012-01-18 17:27:12 <Eliel> finway: there's one ongoing, people donating extra coins to p2pool miners.
 903 2012-01-18 17:27:28 <finway> it's 90G now?
 904 2012-01-18 17:27:34 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: as gmaxwell said, ALL of the proposals have some magic/special cases
 905 2012-01-18 17:27:35 <[Tycho]> gavinandresen: may be we'll try to make the adoption more smooth ? Let's introduce plain open multisigs and long multisign addresses first, to support 2F auth.
 906 2012-01-18 17:27:53 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: only BIP16 AFAICS
 907 2012-01-18 17:28:17 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: OP_EVAL had a special case to check to make sure if it was evaluated as a NO-OP it would validate...
 908 2012-01-18 17:28:42 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: your proposal has a special case that requires passing extra information between the scritpSig and the scriptPubKey
 909 2012-01-18 17:29:22 <gavinandresen> [Tycho]: you willing to write up a BIP proposing a long multisig address?
 910 2012-01-18 17:29:33 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: that's not a special case (for CHV)
 911 2012-01-18 17:29:45 <luke-jr> that's just a new feature for the scripting system
 912 2012-01-18 17:29:51 <gavinandresen> It IS a special case-- CHV does nothing if put into the scriptSig
 913 2012-01-18 17:29:59 <gavinandresen> That is going outside the scripting system
 914 2012-01-18 17:30:01 <luke-jr> it does, just nothing useful
 915 2012-01-18 17:30:06 <gavinandresen> What does it do?
 916 2012-01-18 17:30:16 <luke-jr> hashes a null string and compares that
 917 2012-01-18 17:30:20 <[Tycho]> Also, may be we need to consider multisigs as "standard" TXes too.
 918 2012-01-18 17:30:50 graingert has joined
 919 2012-01-18 17:30:52 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: Ok, if it does that then I'm pretty sure I can exploit that to split the blockchain for old clients.
 920 2012-01-18 17:31:08 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: I'm pretty sure that's impossible.
 921 2012-01-18 17:31:36 <Eliel> [Tycho]: from usability standpoint, it's best to have as few addresses as possible. all the P2SH suggestions share this feature that all types from then on could have the same type of addresses.
 922 2012-01-18 17:31:40 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: What does a scriptSig that has just a  single CHV in it do on old and new clients?
 923 2012-01-18 17:31:48 <Eliel> *as few address types as possible.
 924 2012-01-18 17:31:59 <[Tycho]> Eliel: why ?
 925 2012-01-18 17:32:05 TD has joined
 926 2012-01-18 17:32:20 <Folklore> I guess luke and gavin run bitcoin now,since luke all about dmca no wonder your guys site did nothin to fight sopa or pipa, lame. If you don't stand for something, you stand for nothing, and the community was counting on bitcoin devs to do something
 927 2012-01-18 17:32:21 <Eliel> [Tycho]: easier for users to tell if they're looking at a bitcoin address or not.
 928 2012-01-18 17:32:24 Folklore has left ()
 929 2012-01-18 17:32:57 <MC1984> does p2pool support merge mine
 930 2012-01-18 17:33:02 <graingert> what did Folklore expect? People to stop mining today to protest sopa?
 931 2012-01-18 17:33:17 <graingert> MC1984: I believe you can merge mine and p2pool mine
 932 2012-01-18 17:33:18 <[Tycho]> Eliel: depends on many things. Remember that it's possible to use strings completely not resembling anything bitcoin-related to send funds.
 933 2012-01-18 17:33:29 <graingert> MC1984: but I don't think it's supported natively
 934 2012-01-18 17:33:37 TD has quit (Client Quit)
 935 2012-01-18 17:33:41 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: ping?  What does:    scriptSig:  OP_CODEHASHCHECK   do on new and old clients?
 936 2012-01-18 17:33:44 <finway> SOPA is nothing, come to see China's GreatFireWall...
 937 2012-01-18 17:33:52 <graingert> MC1984: the best way to do it would be to create a p2pool for namecoin etc and join those as well
 938 2012-01-18 17:34:02 <forrestv> graingert, in that when you're merged mining on p2pool you're only solo mining the merged chains
 939 2012-01-18 17:34:10 <forrestv> that's the plan :p
 940 2012-01-18 17:34:15 <graingert> yes
 941 2012-01-18 17:34:18 <graingert> basically
 942 2012-01-18 17:34:29 <graingert> but you can still pool mine
 943 2012-01-18 17:34:45 <finway> forrestv: do you support P2SH?
 944 2012-01-18 17:34:53 <graingert> that allows you to submit shares wraped in bitcoin data
 945 2012-01-18 17:35:12 <[Tycho]> The only bad thing about long addresses is more complicated QR-code. No one is going to type in many bitcoin addresses by hand anyway.
 946 2012-01-18 17:35:15 <finway> forrestv: i guess it depends on  bitcoind?
 947 2012-01-18 17:35:48 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: makes the transaction spending it fail
 948 2012-01-18 17:35:52 <luke-jr> on new
 949 2012-01-18 17:35:52 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 950 2012-01-18 17:36:05 <luke-jr> nothing, on old
 951 2012-01-18 17:36:06 pusle has joined
 952 2012-01-18 17:36:19 Diablo-D3 has joined
 953 2012-01-18 17:36:49 <helo> anyone who knows about bitcoin or accesses any of its sites knows SOPA is bad
 954 2012-01-18 17:37:17 <forrestv> finway, i have a pull req that would make p2pool's blocks reflect bitcoind's opinion: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/759
 955 2012-01-18 17:37:24 <forrestv> for now, all blocks have no flags at all
 956 2012-01-18 17:38:11 <finway> forrestv: That's great! you just give the voting power back to miner, wonderful job.
 957 2012-01-18 17:39:22 <finway> forrestv: i think p2pool is the best thing happened to bitoin in 2011.
 958 2012-01-18 17:39:34 <MC1984> yeah
 959 2012-01-18 17:39:35 <helo> hasn't really "happened" yet :)
 960 2012-01-18 17:39:49 <MC1984> the pools were a necessary step but their time is now passing
 961 2012-01-18 17:40:16 <helo> it's still much easier to just point your miners to eligius or a pre-established pool
 962 2012-01-18 17:40:38 <helo> people have to care about bitcoin's principles more than they care about the additional time required to set up p2pool
 963 2012-01-18 17:41:13 <finway> how about combine bitcoin client & p2pool ?
 964 2012-01-18 17:41:21 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: thinking out loud... what if an attacker decided to insert a CHV onto the front of the scriptSig for every transaction they see/relay....
 965 2012-01-18 17:41:24 <Eliel> finway: or p2pool and miner?
 966 2012-01-18 17:41:38 <Diablo-D3> meh
 967 2012-01-18 17:41:40 <finway> it's time to get mining option back to the client.
 968 2012-01-18 17:41:43 <Diablo-D3> dont violate the unix way
 969 2012-01-18 17:41:49 <Diablo-D3> one app that does one thing well
 970 2012-01-18 17:42:14 <finway> Eliel: that's fine too.
 971 2012-01-18 17:42:17 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: they shouldn't be capable of doing that…
 972 2012-01-18 17:42:18 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
 973 2012-01-18 17:42:21 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: they are.
 974 2012-01-18 17:42:31 * luke-jr frowns
 975 2012-01-18 17:42:38 <luke-jr> they could do a lot of damage in general then
 976 2012-01-18 17:42:59 <luke-jr> what stops them from inserting any OP_*VERIFY that fails?
 977 2012-01-18 17:43:08 <Eliel> unless the rhing roconner is advocating happens. He's advocating trimming extra crap out of scriptSigs
 978 2012-01-18 17:43:09 <helo> since p2pool requires a full node, and the bitcoin client is a full node, it makes sense to allow them to use their bitcoin client as the full node, right?
 979 2012-01-18 17:43:17 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: the next node that gets the transaction will reject it as invalid, and miners won't mine it.
 980 2012-01-18 17:43:24 <Ferroh> How do you add an IP so that bitcoind can download the blockchain, if it is stuck?
 981 2012-01-18 17:43:36 <graingert> finway: also p2pool needs to be split into multiple p2pools
 982 2012-01-18 17:43:46 <graingert> in case one becomes too highly spammed
 983 2012-01-18 17:44:50 <gmaxwell> helo: thats what p2pool users do.
 984 2012-01-18 17:44:51 <Diablo-D3> the only thing I want p2pool to do
 985 2012-01-18 17:44:51 <finway> graingert: what's the split line?  1Thash?
 986 2012-01-18 17:44:53 <forrestv> graingert, "highly spammed"?
 987 2012-01-18 17:44:54 <Diablo-D3> just one tiny change
 988 2012-01-18 17:44:56 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: actually, I take it back-- the IsPushOnly check for inputs would fail, so assuming most people aren't relaying/mining nonstandard transactions it'd be ok
 989 2012-01-18 17:45:08 <graingert> finway: no idea
 990 2012-01-18 17:45:10 <Diablo-D3> is if I supply no rpcuser/pass, read the local .bitcoin/bitcoin.conf
 991 2012-01-18 17:45:13 <Diablo-D3> and connect
 992 2012-01-18 17:45:17 zeiris has joined
 993 2012-01-18 17:45:21 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: yea, thats a no brainer.
 994 2012-01-18 17:45:34 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: BUT:  this is exactly why I like p2sh better than OP_EVAL/CHV, fewer potential gotchas
 995 2012-01-18 17:45:36 <Diablo-D3> it'd be a nicety
 996 2012-01-18 17:45:43 <gmaxwell> helo: (well not all p2pool users, I don't do that— but I think most don't use a dedicated node for it)
 997 2012-01-18 17:45:51 <Eliel> Diablo-D3: it's open source, go make a patch :)
 998 2012-01-18 17:45:59 iocor has joined
 999 2012-01-18 17:46:13 <helo> ahh
1000 2012-01-18 17:46:21 <gmaxwell> I would have patched it (hey, I've submitted a patch to p2pool) but .. its easier to type the password yourself.
1001 2012-01-18 17:46:34 <gmaxwell> (then fix it for everyone :) )
1002 2012-01-18 17:46:48 <Diablo-D3> too busy fighting amd's tools
1003 2012-01-18 17:47:05 <Diablo-D3> btw, I hate banks
1004 2012-01-18 17:47:29 <luke-jr> [12:38:26] <gavinandresen> luke-jr: the next node that gets the transaction will reject it as invalid, and miners won't mine it.
1005 2012-01-18 17:47:35 <luke-jr> same for CHV due to isStandard
1006 2012-01-18 17:47:36 <Diablo-D3> there seems to be no way to pay a credit card now and have it for next month's statement
1007 2012-01-18 17:48:00 <Diablo-D3> so if I pay them like $9001 dollars today, I still have to pay the min next month, where next month might be only 3-4 days away
1008 2012-01-18 17:48:18 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: I would support making any relay-mutable area OP_PUSH only in the protocol, FWIW
1009 2012-01-18 17:49:04 <Eliel> Diablo-D3: only if you're $9002+ dollars in credit.
1010 2012-01-18 17:49:36 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: ... so special case everything before the first OP_CODESEPARATOR in the scriptSig as push-only?
1011 2012-01-18 17:49:42 <Diablo-D3> Eliel: you know what I mean though
1012 2012-01-18 17:49:56 devrandom has joined
1013 2012-01-18 17:50:01 <Eliel> Diablo-D3: yes, I do.
1014 2012-01-18 17:50:22 <Diablo-D3> and now I have to fucking wait for shit to fsck
1015 2012-01-18 17:50:32 <finway> special-case argument is nonsense.
1016 2012-01-18 17:50:42 <Eliel> I'd just enter a delayed payment in my netbank and forget about it.
1017 2012-01-18 17:50:50 <finway> If it works, it's fine.
1018 2012-01-18 17:51:01 <finway> If it's broken, then invent a new script system, like OP_EVAL
1019 2012-01-18 17:53:29 <finway> time to go to bed, 88
1020 2012-01-18 17:53:29 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0017
1021 2012-01-18 17:53:32 <luke-jr> finway: ^
1022 2012-01-18 17:54:07 <Eliel> I think luke's argument is not that special case is wrong. He's saying that either make it fully special cased or fully generically scriptable.
1023 2012-01-18 17:54:29 <Diablo-D3> Im not comfortable with op_eval in the chain at all
1024 2012-01-18 17:54:33 <luke-jr> Eliel: at the protocol level, at least
1025 2012-01-18 17:54:35 BlueMatt has joined
1026 2012-01-18 17:54:36 <Diablo-D3> it was a mistake and I said it was a mistake
1027 2012-01-18 17:54:38 <finway> perfect is the enemy of good.
1028 2012-01-18 17:55:05 <finway> if it works, and if it's safe, it's fine.
1029 2012-01-18 17:55:31 <Eliel> so, if it was changed so that anything other than the P2SH type and the original transaction type are not allowed, it'd be consistent enough for luke.
1030 2012-01-18 17:56:06 <finway> That's ridiculous.
1031 2012-01-18 17:56:14 <luke-jr> Eliel: not quite.
1032 2012-01-18 17:56:19 <finway> I think IsStandard() is a special case.
1033 2012-01-18 17:56:31 <luke-jr> Eliel: original transaction types shouldn't be "allowed" either.
1034 2012-01-18 17:56:32 <finway> It's not  perfect.
1035 2012-01-18 17:56:41 <luke-jr> Eliel: but the full scripting system needs to remain functional for compatibility
1036 2012-01-18 17:56:47 <finway> We should remove it.
1037 2012-01-18 17:56:50 <Diablo-D3> finway: nope, that is not how security works
1038 2012-01-18 17:56:59 <Diablo-D3> finway: if it is attacker controllable, it is a security risk
1039 2012-01-18 17:56:59 <luke-jr> finway: BIP16 moves IsStandard to the protocol, making it never removable
1040 2012-01-18 17:58:11 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: btw, after you left, sipa's build finished with the same Win32 Bitcoin-Qt as devrandom; so http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/bitcoin-0.5.2/* should be ready for uploading
1041 2012-01-18 17:58:51 <finway> But we need IsStandard(), don't we? It's not a perfect world.
1042 2012-01-18 17:58:58 * helo ignores sipa in protest of sopa
1043 2012-01-18 17:59:12 <finway> SOPA is nothing, if you've saw GFW in China.
1044 2012-01-18 17:59:57 <luke-jr> finway: no, we don't.
1045 2012-01-18 18:00:18 <luke-jr> finway: Eligius does not check IsStandard, for example, and never has
1046 2012-01-18 18:06:25 <finway> luke-jr: yeah, Eligius can survive without IsStandard() , but the bitcoin p2p network need it to survive.
1047 2012-01-18 18:06:28 abragin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1048 2012-01-18 18:06:42 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: "You don't have permission to access /programs/bitcoin/files/bitcoin-0.5.2/bitcoin-0.5.2-win32-setup.exe"
1049 2012-01-18 18:06:43 <luke-jr> finway: that doesn't really make sense… :/
1050 2012-01-18 18:07:03 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: fixed
1051 2012-01-18 18:07:30 abragin has joined
1052 2012-01-18 18:07:58 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: also, reminder there is a hidden README.txt in there
1053 2012-01-18 18:08:40 <MC1984> wait why must p2pool be split up
1054 2012-01-18 18:09:37 <luke-jr> MC1984: it doesn't scale
1055 2012-01-18 18:10:40 <MC1984> wat
1056 2012-01-18 18:10:59 <luke-jr> that's what she said
1057 2012-01-18 18:11:11 <luke-jr> <.<
1058 2012-01-18 18:11:24 <MC1984> doesnt that defeat the point
1059 2012-01-18 18:11:31 <jgarzik> sipa: I'm gonna start poking on IPv6 some more, soon
1060 2012-01-18 18:11:49 <jgarzik> sipa: trying to get bitcoin network up on IPv6 for world IPv6 day (June 6, 2012)
1061 2012-01-18 18:11:53 <luke-jr> MC1984: not entirely, no
1062 2012-01-18 18:12:18 <jgarzik> would be nice to see bitcoin[talk].org with AAAA address by then
1063 2012-01-18 18:12:37 <ciscoftw> can you embed a url into a transaction -viewable via the raw blockchain?
1064 2012-01-18 18:12:47 <luke-jr> ciscoftw: don't do it. -.-
1065 2012-01-18 18:14:30 <ciscoftw> seems cool, so this is entirly possible then?
1066 2012-01-18 18:14:48 <MC1984> MFW in 5 years half the blockchain is goldenpalace.com
1067 2012-01-18 18:14:56 <luke-jr> ciscoftw: there is a right way, and a wrong way
1068 2012-01-18 18:15:07 <ciscoftw> ASCII embedding into blockchain ftw
1069 2012-01-18 18:15:28 <luke-jr> ciscoftw: using a transaction is the wrong way
1070 2012-01-18 18:15:41 <ciscoftw> ummmm, i understand
1071 2012-01-18 18:19:01 <finway> luke-jr: what's wrong with your pool?
1072 2012-01-18 18:20:59 <finway> luke-jr: are you stealing shares?
1073 2012-01-18 18:22:32 <finway> luke-jr: speed drops, but cgminer keep submitting shares to your pool.
1074 2012-01-18 18:22:50 <luke-jr> finway: no.
1075 2012-01-18 18:22:58 <luke-jr> finway: someone is DoSing us
1076 2012-01-18 18:23:19 <finway> No, dossing should cgminer switch pool.
1077 2012-01-18 18:23:21 <luke-jr> finway: got a security expert who'd be willing to dig through a 1.3 GB packet capture?
1078 2012-01-18 18:23:30 <luke-jr> finway: well, I'm resisting it obviously
1079 2012-01-18 18:23:59 <finway> cgminer is submitting shares perfectly.
1080 2012-01-18 18:24:21 <luke-jr> great.
1081 2012-01-18 18:24:24 <finway> and dont' switch
1082 2012-01-18 18:26:11 <luke-jr> if only all miners were that tolerant
1083 2012-01-18 18:26:13 <finway> merge_mining is fine, but defeat realcoin by stealing miners' share?  that's not cool.
1084 2012-01-18 18:27:10 <luke-jr> finway: please stop spreading FUD lies
1085 2012-01-18 18:27:14 b4epoche_ has joined
1086 2012-01-18 18:27:52 <[Tycho]> I wonder if ABCPool DDoS and sudden disappearance of poolhoppers from deepbit are connected somehow...
1087 2012-01-18 18:28:07 b4epoche has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1088 2012-01-18 18:28:07 b4epoche_ is now known as b4epoche
1089 2012-01-18 18:28:21 <BlueMatt> oh, wow getmininginfo was really poorly done
1090 2012-01-18 18:28:29 <BlueMatt> like we needed more damn globals
1091 2012-01-18 18:28:57 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: ++
1092 2012-01-18 18:29:10 <phantomcircuit> lold
1093 2012-01-18 18:29:15 <phantomcircuit> GLOBAL ALL THE THINGS
1094 2012-01-18 18:29:19 <phantomcircuit> also
1095 2012-01-18 18:29:41 JimRogers has left ()
1096 2012-01-18 18:29:42 <phantomcircuit> i need a base32 decoder
1097 2012-01-18 18:29:43 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: have you seen cblockstore?
1098 2012-01-18 18:29:45 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: as if there's a better way?
1099 2012-01-18 18:29:45 <phantomcircuit> and encoder
1100 2012-01-18 18:29:55 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: yes there always is
1101 2012-01-18 18:30:00 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: no, what's cblockstore?
1102 2012-01-18 18:30:07 <luke-jr> I mean, short of refactoring the whole block creation into an OO paradigm…
1103 2012-01-18 18:34:01 traviscj has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1104 2012-01-18 18:41:19 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: is there a reason nPooledTx exists?
1105 2012-01-18 18:41:25 <BlueMatt> should mapTransactions.size() not work?
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1107 2012-01-18 18:45:08 <finway> wow, p2pool passed 100Gh/s
1108 2012-01-18 18:45:57 <forrestv> finway, actually, we're experiencing some problems that threw that off a bit..
1109 2012-01-18 18:46:15 <forrestv> still about 90, i think
1110 2012-01-18 18:47:24 <finway> forrestv: that's not bad.
1111 2012-01-18 18:47:45 <MC1984> it whould just be in the client as downloaded
1112 2012-01-18 18:47:56 <MC1984> it shouldnt even have a name, it should just be part of bitcoin.......
1113 2012-01-18 18:48:14 <MC1984> seeing as the block schedule cant be changed
1114 2012-01-18 18:48:41 <finway> forrestv: you should consider make pps mode viable before next hash power down trend.
1115 2012-01-18 18:49:16 <luke-jr> PPS mode?
1116 2012-01-18 18:49:25 <luke-jr> don't think that's even possible with p2pool
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1118 2012-01-18 18:49:50 <finway> forrestv: what's the top hashing speed of p2pool ?
1119 2012-01-18 18:50:14 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1120 2012-01-18 18:54:13 <forrestv> finway, you mean highest of all time? around what it is now
1121 2012-01-18 18:54:17 finway has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1122 2012-01-18 18:55:07 <Mango-chan> STOP SOAP AND PIPE!!
1123 2012-01-18 18:57:04 <gavinandresen> Anybody feeling awake enough to help me think through the pull request I just made?  https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/765
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1127 2012-01-18 18:58:39 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gavinandresen opened pull request 765 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/765>
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1137 2012-01-18 19:10:34 <sjums__> Hey bot, thanks for the notice
1138 2012-01-18 19:13:48 <gavinandresen> Everybody too sleepy to think hard about orphan transactions?  Here's what I want help thinking through:   could there ever be a case where forgetting invalid transactions (e.g. transactions with out-of-range prevout.n) is the wrong thing to do?  E.g. an attack where the attacker keeps sending an invalid transaction hash to you and you keep requesting the transaction data and then finding out the transaction is bad....
1139 2012-01-18 19:14:50 wasabi3 has joined
1140 2012-01-18 19:15:53 <jgarzik> I think we should forget all transactions that do not make it into a block within 24-48 hours of reception
1141 2012-01-18 19:16:25 <jgarzik> proper clients will retransmit, and this helps keep the memory pool reasonable
1142 2012-01-18 19:16:55 <jgarzik> sweep out the orphans, weirdos, and any other garbage
1143 2012-01-18 19:16:59 wasabi1 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1144 2012-01-18 19:18:48 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: Good Idea, too, I think...  although I worry about network dynamics if all the new clients forgot about some transactions and then an attacker made them all request the data for the transaction they forgot all over again.
1145 2012-01-18 19:19:50 <sjums__> Where can i find the best documentation on how the BTC network works?
1146 2012-01-18 19:20:20 <gavinandresen> sjums__: there is a sticky in the Dev&Tech forum (Satoshi Client Operations or something like that)
1147 2012-01-18 19:21:18 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: I think just limiting the size of the orphan map and ejecting large/old transactions if it fills up might be a better approach
1148 2012-01-18 19:22:11 <Diablo-D3> so
1149 2012-01-18 19:22:24 <Diablo-D3> dm runs with amd profiler
1150 2012-01-18 19:22:26 <Diablo-D3> in windows
1151 2012-01-18 19:22:45 <Diablo-D3> but locks up all CL using threads (but not non-CL threads, strangely) when on profiler on linux
1152 2012-01-18 19:22:58 <sjums__> from the preface, it looks like what i want :D Thanks..
1153 2012-01-18 19:26:30 PK has joined
1154 2012-01-18 19:28:43 Cherothald has joined
1155 2012-01-18 19:35:29 <ciscoftw> "FFS Luke-Jr leave the blockchain alone!"
1156 2012-01-18 19:35:48 <ciscoftw> "there's a right and wrong way" ...huh
1157 2012-01-18 19:36:08 <MC1984> yeah.....
1158 2012-01-18 19:36:14 marf_away has joined
1159 2012-01-18 19:36:39 <ciscoftw> so am i a douche if i embed?
1160 2012-01-18 19:37:10 sjums__ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1161 2012-01-18 19:37:17 <MC1984> yes, even more if its the bible
1162 2012-01-18 19:37:19 <sipa> jgarzik: IPv6 is in principle ready; what is still missing is a few lines of code
1163 2012-01-18 19:37:51 <sipa> jgarzik: but i'm currently working on reworking how ip addresses are maintained
1164 2012-01-18 19:38:14 <sipa> jgarzik: since just opening up ipv6 allows for a very nice dos attack where you just fill someone's addr.dat
1165 2012-01-18 19:38:48 <ciscoftw> "/Stack is innocent/" isnt completely tasteless
1166 2012-01-18 19:39:04 <helo> tastes like... ?
1167 2012-01-18 19:39:06 <Joric> i believe the coinbase could be modified only by the pool owner? more specifically EligiusJ ,?mmB?E????u5?x?+
1168 2012-01-18 19:39:14 <MC1984> the bitlen and Stack embeds are the only cool ones imo
1169 2012-01-18 19:39:19 cronopio has joined
1170 2012-01-18 19:39:31 <Joric> block 00000000000001c34b2c76e47138220243d644d7ec1cf9b22391fd072e58dcb2
1171 2012-01-18 19:39:45 <ciscoftw> hLUKE-JR IS A PEDOPHILE! HAHAHAHAAHHA
1172 2012-01-18 19:40:21 <helo> that was pretty lame in the show... it was just a "hey look, it couldn't have been me!" "oh but look, it could have been you!"
1173 2012-01-18 19:40:56 <luke-jr> ciscoftw: yes
1174 2012-01-18 19:41:00 <MC1984> meh, i didnt see the twist coming
1175 2012-01-18 19:41:08 <Joric> most of those messages are in the coinbase except 20 char ones
1176 2012-01-18 19:41:17 <ciscoftw> didnt think the show was that horrible, i mean i wont watch it again -but not as shitty as i was thinking it was going to be
1177 2012-01-18 19:41:18 <MC1984> it never occured to me that bitcoin devs could work so well together.....
1178 2012-01-18 19:41:21 <luke-jr> sipa: is addr.dat even used?
1179 2012-01-18 19:42:05 <sipa> luke-jr: sure
1180 2012-01-18 19:42:22 <phantomcircuit> if someone writes a base32 encode/decode routine i'd have most of the tor stuff working... ish
1181 2012-01-18 19:42:35 <sipa> gavinandresen: #765 looks sane to me
1182 2012-01-18 19:42:40 [eval] has joined
1183 2012-01-18 19:42:52 <gavinandresen> sipa: thanks
1184 2012-01-18 19:43:02 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: repurpose the hex one
1185 2012-01-18 19:43:13 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: no reason it can't do any base with an array or two
1186 2012-01-18 19:43:20 graingert has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1187 2012-01-18 19:43:30 <phantomcircuit> sounds like actual work
1188 2012-01-18 19:43:43 <sipa> shouldn't be hard
1189 2012-01-18 19:43:58 <helo> i was happy it didn't go all "you bitshift the stack registers and wah-lah, money!"
1190 2012-01-18 19:44:04 <gavinandresen> sipa: while I have your attention:  I'm thinking that before we ship multisig we should do something to discourage people from stuffing the now-500-byte-scriptSigs with crap
1191 2012-01-18 19:44:45 <phantomcircuit> the 500 byte script sig is in the input of the transaction right?
1192 2012-01-18 19:44:53 <phantomcircuit> if it's crap you'll drop the transaction anyways
1193 2012-01-18 19:44:53 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: right
1194 2012-01-18 19:45:02 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: not if it is at the front
1195 2012-01-18 19:45:14 <phantomcircuit> you mean OP_DROP style
1196 2012-01-18 19:45:20 <sipa> gavinandresen: discourage transactions with superfluous pushes?
1197 2012-01-18 19:45:35 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: No, you can push a bunch of bytes on the stack and that doesn't affect the signature
1198 2012-01-18 19:45:41 <gavinandresen> sipa: that's what I'm thinking
1199 2012-01-18 19:45:47 <phantomcircuit> oh
1200 2012-01-18 19:46:06 <Joric> i wasn't able to get OP_DROP into the block since june 2011
1201 2012-01-18 19:46:09 <sipa> gavinandresen: i.e. those that result in a non-singleton stack after evaluation of both scripts
1202 2012-01-18 19:46:18 <gavinandresen> sipa: more aggressive alternative is to remove the extra stuff before relaying....
1203 2012-01-18 19:46:39 <sipa> i'd rather drop than modify
1204 2012-01-18 19:46:47 <gavinandresen> sipa: ... but we'll regret that if we ever do something like OP_EVAL, I think
1205 2012-01-18 19:46:52 <gavinandresen> (regret removing)
1206 2012-01-18 19:47:08 <makomk> Diablo-D3: I was actually tempted to create a pushpoold variant that could read config files for Bitcoin and multiple MM chains.
1207 2012-01-18 19:47:15 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: btw, did you see the website selling embedding messages in the blockchain? ;)
1208 2012-01-18 19:47:22 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: yup.
1209 2012-01-18 19:47:27 <sipa> bah
1210 2012-01-18 19:47:38 <Joric> it was so clever... not
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1214 2012-01-18 19:48:13 <gavinandresen> sipa: and while on the subject of discouraging wacky transactions... how easy would it be to discourage transactions with non-canonically-encoded signatures?
1215 2012-01-18 19:48:14 * [Tycho] used OP_DROP recently, and I liked it.
1216 2012-01-18 19:48:25 <makomk> gavinandresen: also, obvious optimisations may be unsafe in the face of odd BIP 016-like changes to script interpretation, right?
1217 2012-01-18 19:49:02 <gavinandresen> makomk: not unsafe, just, maybe, unwise
1218 2012-01-18 19:49:20 <Diablo-D3> makomk: that'd be neat
1219 2012-01-18 19:51:16 <gavinandresen> [Tycho]: if I wasn't spending so much time on the p2sh controversy I'd be working on the headers-only branch and faster initial blockchain download... with the goal to eventually allow all non-standard transactions
1220 2012-01-18 19:52:07 <[Tycho]> Light clients are nice and future.
1221 2012-01-18 19:52:25 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: 0.5.2 Linux build still not up?
1222 2012-01-18 19:53:44 <gavinandresen> Speaking of 0.5.2.... anybody care that stable builds are hosted at gitorious not github?
1223 2012-01-18 19:53:59 gp5st has left ()
1224 2012-01-18 19:54:13 <luke-jr> builds are hosted at SourceForge :p
1225 2012-01-18 19:54:23 <gavinandresen> fine, stable source
1226 2012-01-18 19:55:16 <luke-jr> should move the main tree there too ;)
1227 2012-01-18 19:57:53 traviscj has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1228 2012-01-18 19:58:01 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: also, nLastBlockSize isnt even right
1229 2012-01-18 19:58:04 <BlueMatt> its approximate
1230 2012-01-18 19:58:35 alexwaters has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1231 2012-01-18 19:58:43 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
1232 2012-01-18 19:59:03 <BlueMatt> can we just revert 340f0876eabcabefa77588585f7c8f29954dcb48 and move on?
1233 2012-01-18 19:59:13 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no reason to troll
1234 2012-01-18 19:59:27 <sipa> gavinandresen: make IsStandard() fail for non-DER signatures?
1235 2012-01-18 19:59:33 <BlueMatt> I wasnt, I seriously think we should revert the second half of getmininginfo
1236 2012-01-18 19:59:47 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: if it isn't right, then there's a bug in the part calculating it, not the part letting people see it
1237 2012-01-18 19:59:50 <gavinandresen> sipa: yes.  Is that easy?
1238 2012-01-18 19:59:56 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: and reverting it helps nobody
1239 2012-01-18 20:00:24 <sipa> gavinandresen: exactly... hard, i think, since you don't "know" what push in a scriptSig is a signature
1240 2012-01-18 20:00:29 traviscj has joined
1241 2012-01-18 20:00:34 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: no, its approximate because it doesnt need to be exact, but if you are giving it to people, that becomes stupid
1242 2012-01-18 20:00:54 <BlueMatt> reverting it keeps the bitcoin codebase from getting even worse in its structure
1243 2012-01-18 20:01:03 <gavinandresen> sipa: For the standard transaction types you know exactly what is what in the scriptSig
1244 2012-01-18 20:01:04 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: humans need exact even less than the code
1245 2012-01-18 20:01:08 <BlueMatt> just because it wasnt written well to begin with, desnt mean we have to make it worse
1246 2012-01-18 20:01:18 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: RPC != useful for humans
1247 2012-01-18 20:01:20 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it doesn't get worse, it just remains the same
1248 2012-01-18 20:01:39 <sipa> gavinandresen: right, of course, except that currently IsStandard() doesn't even check for that for inputs
1249 2012-01-18 20:01:39 <BlueMatt> in fact, there is no reason anyone even needs nPooledTx, nLastBlock{Size, Tx}
1250 2012-01-18 20:01:53 <gavinandresen> sipa: .... it'd be the new AreInputsStandard() ....
1251 2012-01-18 20:02:15 <sipa> gavinandresen: you'd need something like "ExtractSigScriptTemplateFromPubKeyScript()"
1252 2012-01-18 20:02:32 <sipa> and then match that template with the input, where you can handle signatures specially
1253 2012-01-18 20:02:55 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: adding yet more globals for no reason is crap, that should never have been merged
1254 2012-01-18 20:02:58 <gavinandresen> sipa: AreInputsStandard already does basically that (had to, to avoid potential DoS with P2SH)
1255 2012-01-18 20:04:04 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I'm not going to waste time arguing over something stupid like this. It's better now than it was before. If you want to improve on it, go ahead. If not, that's no excuse to complain it's imperfect.
1256 2012-01-18 20:04:05 <sipa> gavinandresen: the IsStandard check now requires a call to EvalScript?
1257 2012-01-18 20:04:32 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: TheBlueMatt opened pull request 766 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/766>
1258 2012-01-18 20:04:41 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: theres your improvement
1259 2012-01-18 20:05:09 <gavinandresen> sipa: no, it does the match-the-opcodes thing (Solver())
1260 2012-01-18 20:05:30 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: troll
1261 2012-01-18 20:05:30 <sipa> gavinandresen: i see a call to EvalScript there...
1262 2012-01-18 20:05:43 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: again, Im serious about that
1263 2012-01-18 20:06:44 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: halting improvement until the code it touches is perfect is a sure way to stagnate any project.
1264 2012-01-18 20:07:15 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: no, I never said that, I said you shouldnt make it worse that it was
1265 2012-01-18 20:07:28 <luke-jr> which I didn't. end of discussion.
1266 2012-01-18 20:07:39 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: add another field to CBlock and store the most recently returned block pointer in bitcoinrpc.cpp its not hard, just do it right
1267 2012-01-18 20:07:55 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1268 2012-01-18 20:08:04 <gavinandresen> sipa: the assumption with the EvalScript in AreInputsStandard is that the scriptSig is push-only.....  lemme see....
1269 2012-01-18 20:08:11 alexwaters has joined
1270 2012-01-18 20:08:37 <gavinandresen> sipa: ... and the normal CTransaction::IsStandard() checks for that, and is called before fetching inputs/ calling AreInputsStandard
1271 2012-01-18 20:09:36 <sipa> gavinandresen: right, and it is just to turn the scrpt of pushes into a list of what it pushes
1272 2012-01-18 20:09:47 <luke-jr> tcatm: ping
1273 2012-01-18 20:09:48 <gavinandresen> sipa: yes
1274 2012-01-18 20:12:15 <tcatm> luke-jr: pong
1275 2012-01-18 20:12:49 Visalleras has quit (Quit: http://driedleaves.no-ip.org)
1276 2012-01-18 20:14:27 <luke-jr> tcatm: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/pull/13 is ready to go
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1281 2012-01-18 20:17:37 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: have you thought about possible attacks to CHV based on the CHECKSIGS in the scriptSig signing the scriptPubKey?
1282 2012-01-18 20:18:06 <sipa> gavinandresen: so, it would boil down to a) adding extra cases to the test in AreInputsStandard(), which verify that things that ought to be signatures because of the txout script, are signatures (and canonical ones), and b) doing a recursive call at the end in the case of a /P2SH/ transaction
1283 2012-01-18 20:18:29 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
1284 2012-01-18 20:18:41 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: I'm not sure I understand, so probably not.
1285 2012-01-18 20:19:25 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: Just thinking about an attacker prepending stuff in the scriptSig.  E.g. taking a transaction that is:    <sig> <pubkey> CODESEP OP_CHECKSIG  for the scriptSig and a CHV scriptPubKey....
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1287 2012-01-18 20:19:54 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: the scriptPubKey would need to represent just OP_CHECKSIG in that case
1288 2012-01-18 20:19:56 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: ... if they want to be an asshole they could duplicate the <sig> <pubkey> OP_CHECKSIG a couple of times at the front of the scriptSig and the transaction would still verify
1289 2012-01-18 20:20:19 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: what do you mean "the scriptPubKey would need to represent...."
1290 2012-01-18 20:20:43 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: for <sig> <pubkey> CODESEP OP_CHECKSIG, the scripthash would be just OP_CHECKSIG
1291 2012-01-18 20:21:01 <luke-jr> so sending to that address would be more or less a free-for-all
1292 2012-01-18 20:21:20 <gavinandresen> Fine, fine, move the <pubkey> after the CODESEP
1293 2012-01-18 20:21:45 <luke-jr> couldn't they already duplicate the checksig a few times in the scriptSig?
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1295 2012-01-18 20:22:42 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: yes, that's why I'm thinking of tigtening up the IsStandard checks along with making the number of bytes allowed for standard transactions in scriptSig bigger
1296 2012-01-18 20:22:50 <tcatm> luke-jr: merged
1297 2012-01-18 20:23:14 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: CHV is fully compatible with IsStandard AFAIK
1298 2012-01-18 20:23:39 <luke-jr> tcatm: is there some other step to make it visible to bitcoin.org?
1299 2012-01-18 20:24:15 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: BTW, did you see the BIP?
1300 2012-01-18 20:24:16 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ok, readded nPooledTx and nLastBlockTx in a reasonable way.
1301 2012-01-18 20:24:30 <tcatm> Hrm. Looks like the github hook isn't triggered when merging using the web interface.
1302 2012-01-18 20:24:36 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: happy now?
1303 2012-01-18 20:25:11 Lolcust has joined
1304 2012-01-18 20:25:17 <tcatm> luke-jr: You can trigger it manually by GET'ing http://eu1.bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin.org/cgi-bin/update.sh
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1306 2012-01-18 20:25:26 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: yes, I read it.  There's some cruft leftover from BIP 16 in it, like counting OP_CHECKMULTISIG transacitons
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1308 2012-01-18 20:26:17 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: I left that because it didn't make sense in BIP 16 either, but should be the same concept for CHV
1309 2012-01-18 20:26:19 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: ... speaking of which... p2sh should allow about 10 times as many multisig transactions in our current block limits as chv
1310 2012-01-18 20:26:42 <luke-jr> is that good?
1311 2012-01-18 20:26:58 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: not the same concept at all-- since chv puts the OP_CHECKMULTISIGs unserialized in the scriptSig old clients will already, today, count them as 20 sigops
1312 2012-01-18 20:27:15 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: p2sh "hides" them from old clients, so they can be counted accurately
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1314 2012-01-18 20:27:49 <luke-jr> so that means the +22 example is invalid, correct?
1315 2012-01-18 20:28:01 <luke-jr> oh, I think I understand it now
1316 2012-01-18 20:28:37 <gavinandresen> the +3 signature operations example is invalid, it has to be +20 to avoid a blockchain split
1317 2012-01-18 20:29:41 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: my intent was to avoid redefining any current rules; better now?
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1321 2012-01-18 20:32:23 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: I still don't like it; a scriptSig like this:      <sig> CODESEP <pubkey> CHECKSIG <sig2> CODESEP <pubkey2>  CHECKSIG   .... has strange semantics.
1322 2012-01-18 20:33:16 <gavinandresen> ... because OP_CHECKSIG signs whatever is in the scriptPubKey, and there's no guarantee with CHV that the CHECKSIGS in the scriptSig have any relation to what's in scriptPubKey.
1323 2012-01-18 20:33:21 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: it already has strange semantics. CHV just lets the scriptPubKey confirm a specific code *did* execute last.
1324 2012-01-18 20:34:30 <sipa> how does IF/THEN/ELSE interact with codesep?
1325 2012-01-18 20:34:35 <sipa> is it allowed to span?
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1327 2012-01-18 20:36:03 <sipa> for example, what about an input script "OP_1 OP_0 OP_IF OP_CODESEP <real script>" ?
1328 2012-01-18 20:36:42 <gavinandresen> sipa: unclosed IFs fail validation
1329 2012-01-18 20:36:54 <sipa> ok, right
1330 2012-01-18 20:36:55 <sipa> good
1331 2012-01-18 20:37:05 <gavinandresen> ... and can't span scriptSig/scriptPubKey....
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1342 2012-01-18 21:00:01 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr explicit_p2sh * re0bda5416956 bitcoind-personal/src/main.cpp: Don't vote for /P2SH/ unless -p2sh specified (and vote against if -p2sh=0) http://tinyurl.com/7mr723g
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1356 2012-01-18 21:18:15 <Ferroh> putting bots in control like that,
1357 2012-01-18 21:18:23 <Ferroh> brings us just one step closer to the robot apocalypse.
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1359 2012-01-18 21:20:43 <helo> the human apocalypse, that is :)
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1369 2012-01-18 21:32:13 <ThomasV> !seen theymos
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1393 2012-01-18 21:56:29 <BlueMatt> heh gribble flooded the chan
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1444 2012-01-18 22:39:32 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gavinandresen opened issue 767 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/767>
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1453 2012-01-18 22:50:05 <CIA-76> bitcoin: ckolivas * r86d6073ee031 cgminer/main.c: Allow parsed values to be zero which will allow 0 values in the config file to work. http://tinyurl.com/7l4mqme
1454 2012-01-18 22:50:06 <CIA-76> bitcoin: ckolivas * rb312bd4845ba cgminer/example.conf: Update example conf with 1% donation. http://tinyurl.com/75ufkx7
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