1 2012-01-19 00:01:21 safra has joined
   2 2012-01-19 00:01:57 <elkingrey> Anybody know if I the PPA has updated to the 0.5.2 version?
   3 2012-01-19 00:02:32 <BlueMatt> has 0.5.2 been pushed to bitcoin.org?
   4 2012-01-19 00:02:43 <BlueMatt> Ill go upload that
   5 2012-01-19 00:03:26 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: just versions before 0.4.3 harm network/security ;P
   6 2012-01-19 00:03:51 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: meh, Im too lazy to reword it
   7 2012-01-19 00:03:58 <luke-jr> oh well
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  11 2012-01-19 00:08:35 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: did https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/7501d61633d707331309a8f45c9a4190229b90e0 make 0.5.2?
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  15 2012-01-19 00:10:02 <sipa> phantomcircuit: by the way, no hurries for onion support; it's not useful until ipv6 addresses are relayed anyway
  16 2012-01-19 00:11:04 <Joric> does anyone host 0.6.x win32 builds?
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  18 2012-01-19 00:12:00 <sipa> Joric: 0.6 doesn't exist yet
  19 2012-01-19 00:12:03 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: for future reference, dont change the debian changelog on new releases
  20 2012-01-19 00:12:12 <phantomcircuit> sipa, mostly true
  21 2012-01-19 00:12:12 <BlueMatt> (the name has to match the signing gpg key, ie has to be mine)
  22 2012-01-19 00:12:36 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I think so
  23 2012-01-19 00:12:41 <phantomcircuit> sipa, once ipv6 addresses are relayed i basically just have to make them routable and modify the socks4a connect code
  24 2012-01-19 00:12:49 <phantomcircuit> then shazam
  25 2012-01-19 00:12:55 <phantomcircuit> 100% darknet bitcoin
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  27 2012-01-19 00:13:04 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: it didnt afaict
  28 2012-01-19 00:13:30 <sipa> phantomcircuit: indeed
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  31 2012-01-19 00:15:08 <phantomcircuit> sipa, also i had a chat with some of the tor devs they seem vaguely ok with me adding a way to create a hidden service over the control port
  32 2012-01-19 00:15:19 <phantomcircuit> so there is the potential to make it a mostly automated process
  33 2012-01-19 00:15:26 <sipa> that'd be nice
  34 2012-01-19 00:18:38 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: 09308a3 Remove mentions on anonymity in debian folder.
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  38 2012-01-19 00:27:30 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: odd, it doesnt appear to be applied on 7de7913abdbaa30f0ef6ad1b63508d3a8441d08f (that is 0.5.2 right?)
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  43 2012-01-19 00:40:55 <BlueMatt> elkingrey: uploaded, the packages should be available for update within an hour
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  45 2012-01-19 00:41:09 <elkingrey> Cool!
  46 2012-01-19 00:42:33 BlueMatt has joined
  47 2012-01-19 00:44:55 <TD> gmaxwell: ping
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  50 2012-01-19 00:49:24 <BlueMatt> elkingrey: actually, for some reason lauchpad doesnt want to start building for another hour...anyway it shouldnt be but 10 minutes after they are built before you can grab them (see https://launchpad.net/~bitcoin/+archive/bitcoin/+packages and look at the build stats on the right side for progress)
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  53 2012-01-19 00:53:21 <TD> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Agents
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  68 2012-01-19 01:28:34 <MC1984> that agent thing sounds like the internet cube that sells itself on ebay every month
  69 2012-01-19 01:29:25 <MC1984> http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/01/23/2338257/Artwork-Re-Sells-Itself-Weekly-On-eBay weekly
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 137 2012-01-19 04:45:03 <CIA-76> bitcoin: various * rd02660..845961 cgminer/ (14 files): (6 commits) http://tinyurl.com/42nz69f
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 149 2012-01-19 05:11:19 <ThomasV> !seen theymos
 150 2012-01-19 05:11:19 <gribble> theymos was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 day, 2 hours, 6 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <theymos> I think I remember him signing the hashes.
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 158 2012-01-19 05:42:08 <nameless> !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|someone is spamming the network
 159 2012-01-19 05:42:11 <nameless> !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|somehow...
 160 2012-01-19 05:42:20 <nameless> !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|Oh, wait. I'm not scrolled down
 161 2012-01-19 05:42:33 <nameless> !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|There we go
 162 2012-01-19 05:45:52 * BlueMatt facepalm
 163 2012-01-19 05:46:58 * ThomasV facefeetpalm
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 165 2012-01-19 05:47:26 <luke-jr> nameless|: probably [Tycho]
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 167 2012-01-19 05:50:44 <nameless> !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|enquirer_ actually
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 169 2012-01-19 05:55:05 <[Tycho]> :)
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 179 2012-01-19 06:10:07 <CIA-76> bitcoin: ckolivas * r91af258e7756 cgminer/configure.ac: Add configuration option for CPU mining which will default to off. http://tinyurl.com/7mx54pl
 180 2012-01-19 06:10:09 <CIA-76> bitcoin: ckolivas * r332b3ca1e6ad cgminer/ (Makefile.am api.c configure.ac main.c): Configure out building and support of all CPU mining code unless --enable-cpumining is enabled. http://tinyurl.com/6n26p5h
 181 2012-01-19 06:10:11 <CIA-76> bitcoin: ckolivas * ra91e145ff198 cgminer/README: Update README. http://tinyurl.com/6qq3heo
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 187 2012-01-19 06:20:04 <CIA-76> bitcoin: ckolivas * r69966ffe1791 cgminer/ (api.c main.c): Update copyright dates. http://tinyurl.com/6urvu7h
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 197 2012-01-19 06:50:00 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r5dfc8b694f95 cgminer/ (Makefile.am bitforce.c configure.ac main.c miner.h): BitForce FPGA support http://tinyurl.com/7q8t7mh
 198 2012-01-19 06:50:02 <CIA-76> bitcoin: ckolivas * r52b6410fe728 cgminer/main.c: Display what support is built in. http://tinyurl.com/7ub9ad4
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 203 2012-01-19 07:03:45 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: nanotube opened pull request 768 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/768>
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 206 2012-01-19 07:07:35 <midnightmagic> does BlueMatt delete his github branches after they're merged into master?
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 208 2012-01-19 07:16:50 <ThomasV> luke-jr: what did you mean by "detect standalone bitcoin addresses" in your patch?
 209 2012-01-19 07:17:30 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 210 2012-01-19 07:17:59 <ThomasV> luke-jr: I guess it refers to detection without the bitcoin: marker, right?
 211 2012-01-19 07:18:06 <ThomasV> just to make sure
 212 2012-01-19 07:18:33 <luke-jr> ThomasV: if it sees an address, it makes a link
 213 2012-01-19 07:19:36 <ThomasV> luke-jr: ok, then you are asking for trouble
 214 2012-01-19 07:19:57 <ThomasV> better propose patches that are as harmless as possible
 215 2012-01-19 07:20:04 <luke-jr> it's harmless.
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 217 2012-01-19 07:20:37 <ThomasV> luke-jr: I don't see which line in the code does this
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 261 2012-01-19 09:34:58 <CIA-76> bitcoin: m0mchil * r4871f062c0fb poclbm/BitcoinMiner.py: strip NULLs from device name http://tinyurl.com/7o6296u
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 288 2012-01-19 11:24:22 <coderrr> any reason why 0.5.2 wasn't tagged?
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 361 2012-01-19 13:41:18 <coderrr> graingert, thx for the 28c3 recommendations
 362 2012-01-19 13:41:29 <graingert> coderrr: no problem
 363 2012-01-19 13:41:43 <graingert> did I recommend the TCP/IP one?
 364 2012-01-19 13:41:57 <coderrr> dont think so, which is that
 365 2012-01-19 13:42:02 <coderrr> black ops of ?
 366 2012-01-19 13:42:03 <graingert> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE-JB078Ax4
 367 2012-01-19 13:42:13 <graingert> this is decent for a bit, when talking about bitcoin
 368 2012-01-19 13:42:17 <graingert> but then gets a little dull
 369 2012-01-19 13:42:20 <coderrr> yea saw that one
 370 2012-01-19 13:42:29 <graingert> the presentation about Bitcoin gets a lot wrong
 371 2012-01-19 13:42:48 <graingert> but this presentation, is a much better Bitcoin presentation than the actual Bitcoin presentation
 372 2012-01-19 13:43:03 <coderrr> yea
 373 2012-01-19 13:43:10 <cjdelisle> heh he's nervous
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 405 2012-01-19 15:14:59 <luke-jr> coderrr: it is, in the stable repo
 406 2012-01-19 15:16:32 <coderrr> luke-jr, guess i missed that, where is the stable repo?
 407 2012-01-19 15:17:09 <luke-jr> http://gitorious.org/+bitcoin-stable-developers/bitcoin/bitcoind-stable
 408 2012-01-19 15:17:56 <coderrr> ic
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 419 2012-01-19 15:29:35 <roconnor> amiller: Interestingly, I was planning on using add instrumentation to my script monad in order to gather statistics, and more importantly, enforce the arbitrary limits on the scripting; (those limits that cannot be checked statically).
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 424 2012-01-19 15:37:20 <TuxBlackEdo> i can't just drop the blockchain nightly build into my .bitcoin data dir anymore?
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 426 2012-01-19 15:37:26 <TuxBlackEdo> "what(): db::open: invalid argument"
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 449 2012-01-19 16:59:38 <copumpkin> ooh, bitcoin on my coq-club
 450 2012-01-19 16:59:55 <copumpkin> amiller: very nice
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 456 2012-01-19 17:11:34 <midnightmagic> .. hrm.. what comment from amiller are you guys responding to?
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 458 2012-01-19 17:16:12 booo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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 460 2012-01-19 17:17:34 <amiller> midnightmagic, i made a post to coq-club (the main coq mailing list) summarizing my work so far with bitcoin and coq https://sympa-roc.inria.fr/wws/arc/coq-club/2012-01/msg00075.html
 461 2012-01-19 17:17:51 <luke-jr> on another note, current blockchain votes are 602 for OP_EVAL, 7 against BIP16 (none for), and 3 for CHV :P
 462 2012-01-19 17:17:53 <midnightmagic> thanks!
 463 2012-01-19 17:18:20 <amiller> basically the better i understand roconnor's approach, the more i see glimpses of it in successful coq projects (i highlighted four in the post) but i'm not sure what the effective way to do it is
 464 2012-01-19 17:20:35 * midnightmagic wants to go look for roconnor's approach now.. and should also probably read more #bitcoin-dev
 465 2012-01-19 17:20:37 NickelBot has joined
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 467 2012-01-19 17:22:06 * midnightmagic finds it on amiller's homepage.
 468 2012-01-19 17:23:55 <midnightmagic> ah, is this where the haskell conversation was coming from..
 469 2012-01-19 17:24:07 <[Tycho]> Do someone remembers what was wrong with 391d74d80fea85f905fb66403f69eec2f2d525e321eaac5d700fb9dfe1d6e7f4 ?
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 474 2012-01-19 17:46:11 <Ken`> amiller: I'm very interested in your project! Are you planning to make it an open-source effort?
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 479 2012-01-19 17:48:22 <amiller> hey Ken`, whatever i do will be open source, definitely
 480 2012-01-19 17:48:40 Nicksasa has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 481 2012-01-19 17:49:15 <amiller> i don't have very high expectations of completing it successfully, but i hope it's a helpful start
 482 2012-01-19 17:49:35 <Ken`> well I'd like to help out
 483 2012-01-19 17:49:36 <amiller> coq is awesome black magic
 484 2012-01-19 17:49:45 <Ken`> I'm a fan of Coq and Bitcoin so I can't let this pass
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 487 2012-01-19 17:53:11 <BlueMatt> ;;seen gavinandresen
 488 2012-01-19 17:53:12 <gribble> gavinandresen was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 21 hours, 16 minutes, and 1 second ago: <gavinandresen> ... and can't span scriptSig/scriptPubKey....
 489 2012-01-19 17:53:16 <BlueMatt> arg...
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 493 2012-01-19 17:59:01 <amiller> Ken`, feel free to yank/fork what you like from my work-in-progress github https://github.com/amiller/coincoq
 494 2012-01-19 17:59:12 <BlueMatt> wait, wtf, tx replacement doesnt allow the addition of more txins?
 495 2012-01-19 17:59:19 <BlueMatt> anyone have any guesses why?
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 497 2012-01-19 18:01:16 <BlueMatt> arg, why is there no one useful online atm?
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 507 2012-01-19 18:06:59 <cjdelisle> anyone know if there's a scripting trick to make a payment to the miner of a block 10 in the future?
 508 2012-01-19 18:07:17 <BlueMatt> yea, nLockTime
 509 2012-01-19 18:07:27 <cjdelisle> and it will still go into the block?
 510 2012-01-19 18:07:40 <luke-jr> if the miner accepts it
 511 2012-01-19 18:07:47 <cjdelisle> err it will go into the current block and pay out 10 blocks in the furture
 512 2012-01-19 18:07:53 <luke-jr> no
 513 2012-01-19 18:07:57 <BlueMatt> is nLockTime !IsStandard, Im pretty sure it is
 514 2012-01-19 18:08:13 <BlueMatt> no, it will go in a block that is >= nLockTime
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 516 2012-01-19 18:08:26 <cjdelisle> hmm not so usefull
 517 2012-01-19 18:08:26 <BlueMatt> (is IsStandard since its not a script that is)
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 520 2012-01-19 18:08:44 <BlueMatt> what are you trying to do?
 521 2012-01-19 18:08:50 <cjdelisle> need to "waste" bitcoin for timestamping but don't like the idea of deflating the it.
 522 2012-01-19 18:08:50 <sipa> BlueMatt: TD knows why i believe
 523 2012-01-19 18:09:01 <BlueMatt> sipa: TD[gone] is [gone], sadly
 524 2012-01-19 18:09:24 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: why?
 525 2012-01-19 18:09:38 <nanotube> cjdelisle: then why not just make a tx with a large fee? the miner will get the fee
 526 2012-01-19 18:09:42 <BlueMatt> cjdelisle: you can timestamp w/o wasting bitcoin
 527 2012-01-19 18:10:11 <cjdelisle> include the hash of the change to a peer to peer zonefile in a tx
 528 2012-01-19 18:10:14 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: I think you should write a proper timestamping program
 529 2012-01-19 18:10:34 knotwork has joined
 530 2012-01-19 18:10:34 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: you mean my Namecoin 2.0 proposal?
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 533 2012-01-19 18:10:44 <BlueMatt> cjdelisle: OP_DROP and sent it to eligius
 534 2012-01-19 18:10:55 <cjdelisle> I think it was like diablo's
 535 2012-01-19 18:11:02 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no -.-
 536 2012-01-19 18:11:12 <cjdelisle> needs to require some waste and needs to not get in the next block but can't pay to anyone in particular
 537 2012-01-19 18:11:44 <cjdelisle> paying to the miner of the next block encourages miners to reg lots of domains when they hit a block
 538 2012-01-19 18:11:44 <BlueMatt> cjdelisle: why do you want to waste bitcoin?
 539 2012-01-19 18:11:45 traviscj has joined
 540 2012-01-19 18:11:59 <cjdelisle> keep # of new domains non-ridiculous
 541 2012-01-19 18:12:07 <BlueMatt> wait, wtf are you trying to do?
 542 2012-01-19 18:12:19 <luke-jr> sounds like my Namecoin 2.0, but … weird
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 544 2012-01-19 18:12:42 <cjdelisle> like a zonefile which is passed around and hash of patches to the file need to be included in a tx
 545 2012-01-19 18:13:01 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: http://dot-bit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=217&view=next
 546 2012-01-19 18:14:07 <cjdelisle> "Names can be added by associating a Bitcoin output with a value of at least N with the new name." <-- I want it to not be 1 tx per name
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 548 2012-01-19 18:14:14 <cjdelisle> because I don't want to bloat the chain
 549 2012-01-19 18:14:57 <BlueMatt> why are you doing dns in the bitcoin chain anyway?
 550 2012-01-19 18:14:57 <BlueMatt> namecoin has its own chain for a reason
 551 2012-01-19 18:14:58 <cjdelisle> so if you goto a registrar and ask for 20 names, they make a patch and the hash of that patch goes into a tx
 552 2012-01-19 18:15:16 <cjdelisle> because I don't think people should have to but namecoin just to get names
 553 2012-01-19 18:15:41 <jercos> domains should be freeeeee!
 554 2012-01-19 18:15:44 <BlueMatt> so make a modified version of namecoin where names are free
 555 2012-01-19 18:15:52 <cjdelisle> heh
 556 2012-01-19 18:15:54 <BlueMatt> that would be 100x easier and less intrusive on the bitcoin chain
 557 2012-01-19 18:16:02 <jercos> Then there's no incentive to drive the chain processing.
 558 2012-01-19 18:16:15 <cjdelisle> I also don't want to maintain my own chain and fend off the bazillion attackers who will show up
 559 2012-01-19 18:16:36 <BlueMatt> meh, if its merged mined, you are fine
 560 2012-01-19 18:17:06 <cjdelisle> I also don't wanna mine calebcoins and sell them and be accused of being a scammer
 561 2012-01-19 18:17:09 <jercos> Still needs acceptance. If the coins have no value because they're a seperate chain, why would anyone bother setting up a merged miner?
 562 2012-01-19 18:17:18 <jercos> Unless of course, someone wants to attack the DNS-bearing chain.
 563 2012-01-19 18:17:28 <BlueMatt> you dont even have to have coins if you want free domains
 564 2012-01-19 18:17:50 <jercos> And now you go from almost no incentive to none whatsoever. Why would anyone set up a miner for *absolutely nothing*?
 565 2012-01-19 18:18:04 <BlueMatt> because they like the idea of free domains?
 566 2012-01-19 18:18:08 <jercos> There are a few who would, but the potential attacking power is much higher than the pure philanthropic power
 567 2012-01-19 18:18:21 <cjdelisle> so the only other idea that comes to mind is to paymulti to the miners of the last 10 blocks but that makes for big transactions
 568 2012-01-19 18:18:46 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: your version bloats the chain worse :P
 569 2012-01-19 18:18:47 <cjdelisle> which is why I was wondering if there was some scripting magic I dodn't know about which would allow a prize to become claimable in the future
 570 2012-01-19 18:18:50 <BlueMatt> all you need is one or two big bitcoin miners to merged mine and you have more power than namecoin does now anyway
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 572 2012-01-19 18:19:03 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: there's nothing in my proposal that requires 1 tx per name, other than transfers. I'm sure there's a way to fix that.
 573 2012-01-19 18:19:05 <MC1984> tycho wont even MM namecoin :<
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 575 2012-01-19 18:19:44 <cjdelisle> ok
 576 2012-01-19 18:19:52 <luke-jr> cjdelisle: my Namecoin 2.0 proposal is merged with Bitcoin, and doesn't have its own currency ;)
 577 2012-01-19 18:20:06 <cjdelisle> ^^that is desirable
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 579 2012-01-19 18:20:28 <luke-jr> just fix the transfer/unique-tx issue and you're probably good
 580 2012-01-19 18:20:39 <cjdelisle> then I guess my only issue is that validating it is highly bitcoin specific
 581 2012-01-19 18:20:50 <luke-jr> that's OK :P
 582 2012-01-19 18:20:52 <BlueMatt> please dont stuff dns stuff in bitcoin txes
 583 2012-01-19 18:21:05 <BlueMatt> thats called abuse
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 585 2012-01-19 18:21:30 <cjdelisle> with my design you just have a hash of a database diff and if the tx is in the block then it's good
 586 2012-01-19 18:22:06 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: some n00bs on stackexchange are giving me a hard time for calling btcmsg abuse
 587 2012-01-19 18:22:07 <BlueMatt> wait, so how are you securing this system?
 588 2012-01-19 18:22:13 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: link?
 589 2012-01-19 18:22:22 <jercos> BlueMatt: Oh don't get on the aboose caboose, it's not abuse if it's useful.
 590 2012-01-19 18:22:38 <cjdelisle> lol
 591 2012-01-19 18:22:43 <luke-jr> http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/2631/what-are-the-key-differences-between-different-ways-of-embedding-messages-in-the/2635#2635
 592 2012-01-19 18:22:49 <BlueMatt> jercos: please dont troll
 593 2012-01-19 18:22:51 <cjdelisle> all security can be done out of band
 594 2012-01-19 18:23:04 <BlueMatt> cjdelisle: so why do you need the bitcoin chain?
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 596 2012-01-19 18:23:27 <cjdelisle> IMO everything should be out of band except what specifically requires bitcoin, that is resolving forks and forcing people to waste some money
 597 2012-01-19 18:23:59 <BlueMatt> so if you are forcing people to waste money, why dont you go with namecoin
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 599 2012-01-19 18:24:06 <BlueMatt> also, what if invalid data is put in a tx
 600 2012-01-19 18:24:22 <BlueMatt> what if Im a miner and throw in txes where I steal all your domains?
 601 2012-01-19 18:24:38 <cjdelisle> can't steal existing domains
 602 2012-01-19 18:24:46 <cjdelisle> those would have to be signed over
 603 2012-01-19 18:24:57 <cjdelisle> and that's all done in the zone file and patches
 604 2012-01-19 18:25:07 tower has joined
 605 2012-01-19 18:25:14 <cjdelisle> the only part which ever hits the chain is a hash of a zone file patch
 606 2012-01-19 18:26:25 <BlueMatt> what if two zone file patches with two claims to the same domain go in txes in the same block?
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 608 2012-01-19 18:26:49 <cjdelisle> whichever wastes more btc? or perhaps the one w/ the lower tx hash?
 609 2012-01-19 18:27:24 <cjdelisle> whichever wastes/gives the most would be best I guess
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 611 2012-01-19 18:27:48 <BlueMatt> and why dont you throw these hashes in a MM coinbase instead of txes?
 612 2012-01-19 18:28:00 RazielZ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 613 2012-01-19 18:28:18 <cjdelisle> because they need to give up some btc
 614 2012-01-19 18:28:21 Graet has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 615 2012-01-19 18:28:42 <BlueMatt> why?
 616 2012-01-19 18:28:42 <BlueMatt> I thought you wanted domains to be free?
 617 2012-01-19 18:28:51 <cjdelisle> nope, that was jercos :)
 618 2012-01-19 18:28:53 <BlueMatt> and if you dont, why dont you want domains to be free?
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 620 2012-01-19 18:29:12 <BlueMatt> why do you need to spend bitcoins to someone random, isnt that useless
 621 2012-01-19 18:29:15 <cjdelisle> because the storage space for the zone file isn't?
 622 2012-01-19 18:29:50 TD has joined
 623 2012-01-19 18:29:55 <cjdelisle> I feel like just sending them into the null address is irresponsible since it makes them nolonger usable and messes with the amount available
 624 2012-01-19 18:30:11 ski_ has joined
 625 2012-01-19 18:30:18 <ciscoftw> ..and makes your coins increase in value along the way -thats good isnt it?
 626 2012-01-19 18:31:01 <BlueMatt> TD: why can a tx not be replaced with one which adds more inputs?
 627 2012-01-19 18:31:08 <cjdelisle> I see myself as an outsider, I'm trying to figure how to do this and tread as lightly as possible
 628 2012-01-19 18:31:17 <TD> do you mean, why does the code check for that? or why does it not work after you tried it ?
 629 2012-01-19 18:31:31 <BlueMatt> why does the code check for that?
 630 2012-01-19 18:31:37 <TD> ask satoshi :)
 631 2012-01-19 18:31:39 <TD> i'll have a think about it
 632 2012-01-19 18:31:49 <BlueMatt> oh, sipa said you would know as if you had discussed it before...
 633 2012-01-19 18:31:51 <TD> probably it wasn't a part of the use cases he had in mind for that feature
 634 2012-01-19 18:32:06 <BlueMatt> thats the only usecase I can think of for tx replacement...
 635 2012-01-19 18:32:13 <BlueMatt> (increase fee, which may require additional inputs)
 636 2012-01-19 18:32:21 <TD> the inputs can't change what they're connected to
 637 2012-01-19 18:32:25 <BlueMatt> cjdelisle: the best way is namecoin...
 638 2012-01-19 18:32:26 <TD> no, tx replacement is intended for contracts
 639 2012-01-19 18:32:37 <TD> not deliberate double spends to increase fees
 640 2012-01-19 18:32:39 RazielZ has joined
 641 2012-01-19 18:32:53 <BlueMatt> TD: contracts as-in?
 642 2012-01-19 18:33:09 <BlueMatt> yea, a tx would have to have at least the same inputs to be valid for replacement
 643 2012-01-19 18:34:20 <TD> let me quote satoshi as i'm kind of tired to provide my own example right now
 644 2012-01-19 18:34:20 <TD> One use of nLockTime is high frequency trades between a set of parties.  They can keep updating a tx by unanimous agreement.  The party giving money would be the first to sign the next version.  If one party stops agreeing to changes, then the last state will be recorded at nLockTime.  If desired, a default transaction can be prepared after each version so n-1 parties can push an unresponsive party out.  Intermediate transactions do not need
 645 2012-01-19 18:34:21 <TD> broadcast.  Only the final outcome gets recorded by the network.  Just before nLockTime, the parties and a few witness nodes broadcast the highest sequence tx they saw.
 646 2012-01-19 18:37:07 <BlueMatt> mmm, though I could see a use-case for additional txins in that case as well...
 647 2012-01-19 18:38:08 <BlueMatt> currently, afaict, you can remove a txin but not add one...
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 655 2012-01-19 19:00:35 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gavinandresen opened pull request 769 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/769>
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 665 2012-01-19 19:26:48 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * raacefd2 / (src/bitcoinrpc.cpp src/main.cpp src/main.h): Merge branch 'getmemorypool_blockflagstime' of https://github.com/forrestv/bitcoin - http://git.io/yUssdQ https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/aacefd279549c4b524def6e46f4a004bf8bb92bf
 666 2012-01-19 19:32:19 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: wtf did you do that for?
 667 2012-01-19 19:34:24 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * rc55fd06 / (4 files in 3 dirs): Merge branch 'tabs-to-space' of https://github.com/larsr/bitcoin - http://git.io/MK8_Qg https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/c55fd06b990df44df88775d3333d43ad740d726f
 668 2012-01-19 19:34:24 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r7012b12 / src/net.cpp : Merge branch 'updateseednodes' of https://github.com/nanotube/bitcoin - http://git.io/Zd4ecA https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/7012b124bc7bbd80f7219c8122f06143c1c6c32f
 669 2012-01-19 19:35:32 <CIA-76> bitcoin: various next-test * rf0bfc7..8366d4 bitcoind-personal/ (35 files in 7 dirs): (18 commits) http://tinyurl.com/7vr93zh
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 672 2012-01-19 19:37:05 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: wtf did you do that for?
 673 2012-01-19 19:37:50 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r1240a1b / src/json/json_spirit_reader_template.h : Back out spacing changes to json spirit code - http://git.io/PjpqKw https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/1240a1b0a82e0e944a6fdcf6ff26001e1bd68904
 674 2012-01-19 19:39:50 b4epoche_ has joined
 675 2012-01-19 19:40:18 <gmaxwell> nanotube: why does the new seed node list not have a single address in common with the old one?
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 678 2012-01-19 19:40:41 b4epoche_ is now known as b4epoche
 679 2012-01-19 19:40:54 <gmaxwell> nanotube: I find that somewhat concerning.
 680 2012-01-19 19:41:26 Graet has joined
 681 2012-01-19 19:41:32 shadders has joined
 682 2012-01-19 19:41:46 p2k has joined
 683 2012-01-19 19:41:47 <gmaxwell> (I'm not suggesting you're up to funny business, of course, but thats what funny business would look like— so procedurally, as someone who audits commits, I've gotta ask why. :) )
 684 2012-01-19 19:41:55 <nanotube> gmaxwell: maybe old seednodes haven't upgraded? old nodes were supposed to be 0.3.24, this time cutoff is 0.4.0
 685 2012-01-19 19:42:00 <p2k> yes! https://trac.macports.org/ticket/31354#comment:3 :D
 686 2012-01-19 19:42:22 <nanotube> gmaxwell: that's a good question though :)
 687 2012-01-19 19:42:28 <gmaxwell> nanotube: ah. That would explain a lot of it!  Though .. none? oy.
 688 2012-01-19 19:42:56 <gmaxwell> (maybe an effort should be made to test the old ones— there may be some old ones that just got missed)
 689 2012-01-19 19:43:00 <gmaxwell> bbl
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 691 2012-01-19 19:43:30 <p2k> bitcoin devs: you can now remove contrib/miniupnpc/Portfile
 692 2012-01-19 19:43:58 <gavinandresen> p2k: right now, or should we wait until it percolates through the macports release process?
 693 2012-01-19 19:44:15 Nicksasa has quit (Read error: No route to host)
 694 2012-01-19 19:44:28 <p2k> read the ticket again, it _has_ gone through the macports release process
 695 2012-01-19 19:44:34 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: why did you just intentionally break coinbaser by merging a hacked in substitute? -.-
 696 2012-01-19 19:44:52 <gavinandresen> p2k:  nifty
 697 2012-01-19 19:44:55 <p2k> -> https://trac.macports.org/changeset/89116
 698 2012-01-19 19:45:23 Nicksasa has joined
 699 2012-01-19 19:45:27 <nanotube> gmaxwell: yea dunno. i grab the datadump from mtux, filter it by version and longevity, then run an "is it up check" on whatever remains, and include ones that are up. i guess if someone felt up to it, he could check the old seednode list to see if there's a subset of them that is up and has version > 0.4.0. if there's a significant number, then it's something to look into...
 700 2012-01-19 19:45:58 <p2k> gavinandresen: Mac OS X build instructions have to be modified then
 701 2012-01-19 19:46:43 <p2k> shall I do that and send a pull request on github?
 702 2012-01-19 19:46:53 <gavinandresen> p2k: what's the best way for me to test?  port upgrade miniupnpc   to get the official macport?
 703 2012-01-19 19:47:25 <p2k> maybe uninstall it first and reinstall it after a "port selfupdate"
 704 2012-01-19 19:48:12 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: why are you against forward progress?
 705 2012-01-19 19:49:35 <gavinandresen> p2k: a pull request would be great, thanks
 706 2012-01-19 19:50:07 <p2k> ok, it's about time I clean up my github account. I'll just delete the falsely linked repositories and fork freshly
 707 2012-01-19 19:50:30 <p2k> archiving my local copies
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 711 2012-01-19 19:55:40 <p2k> gavinandresen: should I keep that somewhere or delete it as well? https://github.com/p2k/bitcoin-qt/wiki
 712 2012-01-19 19:56:00 <p2k> some information and the headlines are outdated
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 714 2012-01-19 19:57:43 <gavinandresen> p2k: I don't have a strong opinion
 715 2012-01-19 19:58:38 <p2k> then what's your weak opinion?
 716 2012-01-19 19:58:43 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 717 2012-01-19 20:00:10 <gavinandresen> weak opinion is it'd be nice to have a "getting started page" with that information somewhere on bitcoin.org.... but I'm not motivated to make that happen
 718 2012-01-19 20:00:18 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Forrest Voight coinbaser * r52a3d2635c41 bitcoind-personal/src/ (bitcoinrpc.cpp main.cpp main.h): Separated COINBASE_FLAGS out into main.h and made RPC getmemorypool return it http://tinyurl.com/79cqezu
 719 2012-01-19 20:00:20 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Forrest Voight coinbaser * rab845122587e bitcoind-personal/src/bitcoinrpc.cpp: Added mintime and curtime to RPC getmemorypool http://tinyurl.com/7zngenf
 720 2012-01-19 20:00:22 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen coinbaser * raacefd279549 bitcoind-personal/src/ (bitcoinrpc.cpp main.cpp main.h): Merge branch 'getmemorypool_blockflagstime' of https://github.com/forrestv/bitcoin http://tinyurl.com/6og5dum
 721 2012-01-19 20:00:23 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr coinbaser * r0ab0b69cfeda bitcoind-personal/src/ (10 files in 3 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into coinbaser http://tinyurl.com/7ugspse
 722 2012-01-19 20:01:08 <p2k> well ok, since bitcoin is so easy to install on os x, I think we don't really need this
 723 2012-01-19 20:01:31 <p2k> I'm also not so motivated to make new screenshots
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 725 2012-01-19 20:02:07 <p2k> repo deleted
 726 2012-01-19 20:02:50 <p2k> and new fork ready
 727 2012-01-19 20:03:23 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: next time, if you intend to merge a feature that depends on coinbaser functionality, please merge coinbaser first rather than a hacky stub that breaks clean merging
 728 2012-01-19 20:04:57 <nathan7> hi earthlings
 729 2012-01-19 20:07:14 <luke-jr> ;;echo gavinandresen: next time, if you intend to merge a feature that depends on coinbaser functionality, please merge coinbaser first rather than a hacky stub that breaks clean merging
 730 2012-01-19 20:07:14 <gribble> gavinandresen: next time, if you intend to merge a feature that depends on coinbaser functionality, please merge coinbaser first rather than a hacky stub that breaks clean merging
 731 2012-01-19 20:07:30 <helo> nice
 732 2012-01-19 20:08:13 <gavinandresen> gribble:  tell luke-jr I'm too pissed at him to listen to him right now.  Call back next week, maybe.
 733 2012-01-19 20:09:50 <luke-jr> … tempting: ;;echo gavinandresen: no u
 734 2012-01-19 20:09:51 <luke-jr> :p
 735 2012-01-19 20:10:19 <userhh> Gavin x Luke-jr. good for bitcoin?
 736 2012-01-19 20:10:28 <userhh> kidding
 737 2012-01-19 20:11:54 <p2k> gavinandresen: would also be about time to include the new macdeployqtplus
 738 2012-01-19 20:12:12 <gavinandresen> p2k: Good Idea.  Can you submit a patch with that, too?
 739 2012-01-19 20:12:18 <p2k> yep
 740 2012-01-19 20:12:23 <p2k> while I'm at it
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 745 2012-01-19 20:22:04 <p2k> gavinandresen: erm.. is miniupnpc enabled by default i.e. should I add it to "sudo port install boost db48" ?
 746 2012-01-19 20:22:20 <gavinandresen> p2k: yes
 747 2012-01-19 20:22:23 <p2k> ok
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 753 2012-01-19 20:27:52 <p2k> gavinandresen: release-process.txt states your patched macdeployqt. the new macdeployqtplus doesn't use this.
 754 2012-01-19 20:27:58 h4ckm3 has joined
 755 2012-01-19 20:28:21 <p2k> should I add a note in that section?
 756 2012-01-19 20:28:34 <gavinandresen> p2k: just update it to the way it aught to be
 757 2012-01-19 20:29:01 <gavinandresen> (and we'll follow that process for the 0.6 mac builds, and change it again if it needs tweaking)
 758 2012-01-19 20:29:16 enquirer has joined
 759 2012-01-19 20:29:31 <p2k> just call me if you need anything
 760 2012-01-19 20:29:47 <p2k> or feel free to study my python based macdeployqt
 761 2012-01-19 20:30:22 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr coinbaser * rcdf279..b56e73 bitcoind-personal/src/ (bitcoinrpc.cpp init.cpp main.h main.cpp): (6 commits) http://tinyurl.com/3lrgdkn
 762 2012-01-19 20:32:17 GMP has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 763 2012-01-19 20:33:11 <p2k> also note that any Qt installation is now supported through the new macdeployqtplus (framework, non-framework, with macports, without macports)
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 766 2012-01-19 20:34:45 <gavinandresen> p2k: does creating "pretty" .dmg images work for you?  That was flaky on my machine with the old tools, it seemed very hard to get the background image to "stick"
 767 2012-01-19 20:34:51 pusle has joined
 768 2012-01-19 20:35:06 <p2k> testing it all now
 769 2012-01-19 20:36:11 <p2k> works like a charm
 770 2012-01-19 20:36:57 <p2k> starting the app just to make sure...
 771 2012-01-19 20:38:44 <p2k> crashes.. wtf?
 772 2012-01-19 20:40:28 <p2k> trying to debug
 773 2012-01-19 20:41:13 <gavinandresen> ... I sympathize....  did some of that when I was figuring out why the C macdeployqt created a .App that crashed....
 774 2012-01-19 20:42:01 <p2k> that should not be related to macdeployqt
 775 2012-01-19 20:42:13 <p2k> bitcoin starts and displays the splashscreen
 776 2012-01-19 20:42:21 <p2k> then crashes before showing the wallet
 777 2012-01-19 20:42:29 <gavinandresen> p2k: yeah, then different bug.
 778 2012-01-19 20:42:35 <p2k> after the blockchain was loaded
 779 2012-01-19 20:42:40 <p2k> *-index
 780 2012-01-19 20:43:27 <p2k> lolz...
 781 2012-01-19 20:43:35 <p2k> bind: Address already in use
 782 2012-01-19 20:43:42 <gavinandresen> lol
 783 2012-01-19 20:44:02 * p2k turns off the already running bitcoind in shame...
 784 2012-01-19 20:44:36 <p2k> ok everytings fine
 785 2012-01-19 20:44:44 <p2k> nice new icons
 786 2012-01-19 20:49:16 gfinn has quit (Quit: gfinn)
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 788 2012-01-19 20:50:56 <p2k> committing, pushing, sending...
 789 2012-01-19 20:51:13 diki has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 790 2012-01-19 20:51:38 <p2k> lol there's a typo in commit title... le fail :)
 791 2012-01-19 20:51:49 m00p has joined
 792 2012-01-19 20:53:39 <p2k> -> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/770
 793 2012-01-19 20:57:22 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: p2k opened pull request 770 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/770>
 794 2012-01-19 20:57:37 <p2k> ah ok, didn't know that goes automatically
 795 2012-01-19 21:03:27 <nanotube> ;;pet
 796 2012-01-19 21:03:27 <gribble> *purrrrrrrr*
 797 2012-01-19 21:03:52 <luke-jr> ;;botsnack
 798 2012-01-19 21:03:52 <gribble> Forget the snack, just send me some bitcoins at 1MgD6rah5zUgEGYZnNmdpnXMaDR3itKYzU :)
 799 2012-01-19 21:03:53 <p2k> jeez...
 800 2012-01-19 21:03:58 <luke-jr> gribble: ungrateful bot!
 801 2012-01-19 21:03:59 BlueMatt has joined
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 803 2012-01-19 21:07:35 <nanotube> lol
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 809 2012-01-19 21:20:07 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r9e40e87a1ed1 cgminer/ (AUTHORS README main.c): Update documentation http://tinyurl.com/6qqne4h
 810 2012-01-19 21:20:08 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r418c452eccd7 cgminer/ (AUTHORS README main.c): Merge pull request #74 from luke-jr/doc_update http://tinyurl.com/7tcuycp
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 814 2012-01-19 21:23:46 <Raccoon> Are there DLLs with exportable functions for the Windows Bitcoin client?
 815 2012-01-19 21:23:50 maqr has joined
 816 2012-01-19 21:23:55 <BlueMatt> no
 817 2012-01-19 21:24:02 <Raccoon> allowing for external processes/scripts to utilize bitcoin
 818 2012-01-19 21:24:11 <BlueMatt> the bitcoin client has no functions that anyone should use to communicate with bitcoin
 819 2012-01-19 21:24:18 <Raccoon> 'should'?
 820 2012-01-19 21:24:47 <BlueMatt> in theory you could hack around and communicate with any running process using its own functions (assuming you know the right function pointers)
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 822 2012-01-19 21:25:07 <Raccoon> but why is it discouraged to develop around the client?
 823 2012-01-19 21:25:13 <BlueMatt> use rpc
 824 2012-01-19 21:25:25 <BlueMatt> its not discouraged, but no one has stepped up to make an api
 825 2012-01-19 21:25:26 <Raccoon> RPC?
 826 2012-01-19 21:25:34 <BlueMatt> the regular bitcoind communication method
 827 2012-01-19 21:25:49 <BlueMatt> what are you trying to do?
 828 2012-01-19 21:25:55 <Raccoon> you mean 'write your own client'
 829 2012-01-19 21:25:59 <BlueMatt> no
 830 2012-01-19 21:26:35 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,wiki "API reference (JSON-RPC)"
 831 2012-01-19 21:26:36 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/API_reference_(JSON-RPC) | Sep 7, 2011 ... You can control it via the command-line or by HTTP JSON-RPC commands. You must create a bitcoin.conf configuration file setting an rpcuser ...
 832 2012-01-19 21:26:39 <Raccoon> i want to create an IRC bot that generates addresses, can detect received funds, can send out funds, and tracking thereof
 833 2012-01-19 21:26:39 <BlueMatt> that
 834 2012-01-19 21:26:47 <BlueMatt> yea, you want that page
 835 2012-01-19 21:27:00 <Raccoon> ;;bc,wiki "API reference (JSON-RPC)"
 836 2012-01-19 21:27:01 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/API_reference_(JSON-RPC) | Sep 7, 2011 ... You can control it via the command-line or by HTTP JSON-RPC commands. You must create a bitcoin.conf configuration file setting an rpcuser ...
 837 2012-01-19 21:27:22 <Raccoon> hmm
 838 2012-01-19 21:27:29 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: can you explain how sigops are counted with OP_EVAL?
 839 2012-01-19 21:27:35 <Raccoon> ah, there it is
 840 2012-01-19 21:30:53 agricocb has joined
 841 2012-01-19 21:30:59 <BlueMatt> ;;seen gavinandresen
 842 2012-01-19 21:30:59 <gribble> gavinandresen was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 47 minutes and 16 seconds ago: <gavinandresen> lol
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 844 2012-01-19 21:34:20 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: you mean p2sh?
 845 2012-01-19 21:34:24 <BlueMatt> oh, yea
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 847 2012-01-19 21:35:37 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: specifically, why are you adding the scriptpubkey of the input's tx to the calculation of sigops?
 848 2012-01-19 21:35:39 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: I hope the explanation in BIP 16 is good... basically, CHECKSIGs count as 1, MULTISIGS as 20, if they're not 'hidden' inside a p2sh
 849 2012-01-19 21:36:00 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: because that's the way the old code did it.
 850 2012-01-19 21:36:14 <BlueMatt> oh
 851 2012-01-19 21:36:26 <BlueMatt> hmmm...
 852 2012-01-19 21:36:34 <BlueMatt> well clients cant check that
 853 2012-01-19 21:36:50 <gavinandresen> what do you mean?
 854 2012-01-19 21:37:11 <BlueMatt> clients dont have the previous txes to pull the scriptpubkey checksig count from...
 855 2012-01-19 21:37:20 <gavinandresen> oh, you mean lightweight clients
 856 2012-01-19 21:37:22 <BlueMatt> yea
 857 2012-01-19 21:37:26 CaptDDL has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 858 2012-01-19 21:37:36 <BlueMatt> sorry, just doing some refactoring and I got confused...
 859 2012-01-19 21:37:56 <gavinandresen> no problem
 860 2012-01-19 21:39:31 <BlueMatt> actually, for some reason I dont see the old code doing it that way
 861 2012-01-19 21:39:57 <BlueMatt> (also it makes no sense to do it that way imo)
 862 2012-01-19 21:40:06 <BlueMatt> (but that is irrelevant)
 863 2012-01-19 21:40:17 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #180: FAILURE in 1 hr 32 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/180/
 864 2012-01-19 21:40:18 <BlueMattBot> * Lars.Rasmusson: Replace tabs with four spaces to comply with coding standard in doc/coding.txt
 865 2012-01-19 21:40:18 <BlueMattBot> * nanotube: Update seednodes, pick long-uptime nodes with version >= 0.4.0
 866 2012-01-19 21:40:19 <BlueMattBot> * gavinandresen: Back out spacing changes to json spirit code
 867 2012-01-19 21:40:25 <BlueMatt> ???
 868 2012-01-19 21:40:45 <BlueMatt> "i586-mingw32msvc-g++: Internal error: Killed (program cc1plus)"
 869 2012-01-19 21:40:46 <BlueMatt> wtf?
 870 2012-01-19 21:41:10 <BlueMatt> meh, Ill run it again
 871 2012-01-19 21:42:44 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: in the old code there is no checking of sigops in ConnectInputs
 872 2012-01-19 21:43:09 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: GetSigOpCount() in main.h from (for example) 0.4.0 loops through all the scriptSigs and scriptPubKeys calling CTransaction::GetSigOpCount
 873 2012-01-19 21:44:05 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: yea, but with p2sh in ConnectInputs you check the prevout's scriptPubKey's sigops, not the tx itself
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 876 2012-01-19 21:44:31 <BlueMatt> in previous version (afaict) no sigops in previous txes are calculated as a part of the sigop count
 877 2012-01-19 21:44:46 <nanotube> <BlueMattBot> Oh no! You're suspected of having broken Bitcoin: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/180/ <- hehe nice
 878 2012-01-19 21:44:47 <BlueMatt> (the nSigOpRet was added with p2sh/op_eval)
 879 2012-01-19 21:45:11 <BlueMatt> nanotube: yea, it even guesses irc nicks automatically based on (well tbh, I have no idea how it does that...)
 880 2012-01-19 21:45:18 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: Yes, sigops are calculated two different ways, the old way and a new way that doesn't always charge CHECKMULTISIG operations 20 sigops
 881 2012-01-19 21:45:38 <nanotube> BlueMatt: well, my github nick is the same as irc... so that one was easy
 882 2012-01-19 21:45:46 <BlueMatt> so back to my question, can you explain the new way and why its necessary?
 883 2012-01-19 21:46:17 <BlueMatt> (sorry if Im being really dense here)
 884 2012-01-19 21:46:24 <BlueMatt> nanotube: yea, probably that
 885 2012-01-19 21:47:23 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: sure....  let me gather my thoughts
 886 2012-01-19 21:47:39 <BlueMatt> np
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 893 2012-01-19 21:52:42 <Joric_> did anyone of you receive 20 bitcents recently?
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 895 2012-01-19 21:53:24 <gavinandresen> The critical code is the sigop counting code in CheckBlock/ConnectBlock; CheckBlock makes sure the block is compatible with old clients by counting the old way.
 896 2012-01-19 21:54:29 <gavinandresen> The "new" way is to look at the transaction's inputs and the scriptPubKeys that they are spending and get a count of how many sigops are actually required to validate the transaction (ignoring IFs)
 897 2012-01-19 21:54:56 <gavinandresen> (and ignoring the fact that a 1 .... 3 CHECKMULTISIG might take anywhere from 1 to 3 signature checks to validate)
 898 2012-01-19 21:55:02 <gavinandresen> (it'll always count as 3)
 899 2012-01-19 21:55:47 <gavinandresen> As to why bother:  to prevent possible signature-check-denial-of-service attacks
 900 2012-01-19 21:56:11 <BlueMatt> well my question is why bother to do both together
 901 2012-01-19 21:56:17 <BlueMatt> they are both counted already?
 902 2012-01-19 21:57:04 <gavinandresen> we have to count the old way to avoid a possible hard blockchain split with old clients
 903 2012-01-19 21:57:17 <gavinandresen> we want to count the new way to prevent possible p2sh-based denial-of-service attacks
 904 2012-01-19 21:57:53 <BlueMatt> I understand the old way and that is fine, but Im still fuzzy on the attack vector that the new way prevents
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 906 2012-01-19 21:58:26 <gavinandresen> I create a transaction with a "zero-sigops" p2sh scriptPubKey.  It gets into the blockchain.
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 908 2012-01-19 21:59:19 <BlueMatt> and?
 909 2012-01-19 21:59:25 <gavinandresen> Now I spend it, with some crazy-expensive script that is 400 bytes long and does as many ECDSA signature checks as possible in 400 bytes
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 911 2012-01-19 21:59:58 <gavinandresen> Or, much worse, I create 10,000 of those zero-sigops scripts and then mine a block that spends them all.
 912 2012-01-19 22:00:23 <gavinandresen> ... making the other miners spend a bunch of CPU time trying to validate all those signatures.
 913 2012-01-19 22:00:23 <BlueMatt> yea, so you check the sigop count in the serialized script before executing
 914 2012-01-19 22:00:40 <BlueMatt> why do you add the sigop count from the previous tx's sigpubkey?
 915 2012-01-19 22:01:10 <gavinandresen> Because when you validate a transaction those are the pubkeys you're validating signatures against.
 916 2012-01-19 22:01:42 <BlueMatt> but the scriptpubkey of the previous tx always has 0 sigops
 917 2012-01-19 22:02:05 <BlueMatt> (for a p2sh tx)
 918 2012-01-19 22:02:15 <gavinandresen> In the p2sh case?  Yes...
 919 2012-01-19 22:02:16 <BlueMatt> (otherwise let the old of counting way deal with it)
 920 2012-01-19 22:02:57 <gavinandresen> Got it.
 921 2012-01-19 22:03:22 <gavinandresen> Counting the sigops you're actually performing seems like a good "belt and suspenders" check
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 923 2012-01-19 22:03:54 <BlueMatt> but clients cant do it, so clients now might accept a block that full nodes will reject
 924 2012-01-19 22:04:16 <BlueMatt> also, now new nodes might reject blocks that old nodes would accept
 925 2012-01-19 22:04:22 <gavinandresen> Lightweight clients can't validate signatures, either....
 926 2012-01-19 22:04:30 <BlueMatt> and, sigops in scriptpubkeys are getting counted twice
 927 2012-01-19 22:05:04 <BlueMatt> and lastly, I dont feel like figuring out what code I need to change to rebase on the new counting method
 928 2012-01-19 22:06:09 <gavinandresen> With p2sh new nodes might reject blocks that old nodes would accept in any case
 929 2012-01-19 22:06:19 <gavinandresen> (that's why 50+% support is needed)
 930 2012-01-19 22:07:14 <BlueMatt> well mostly I dont see the reason for counting them twice
 931 2012-01-19 22:07:42 <gavinandresen> The way they're counted now is... just wrong.
 932 2012-01-19 22:07:50 <BlueMatt> why?
 933 2012-01-19 22:08:27 <BlueMatt> the way theyre counted now is simpler
 934 2012-01-19 22:08:29 <gavinandresen> E.g.  a transaction spending 1,000  1-of-20 CHECKMULTISIG to a single output that just a CHECKSIG would be counted as 1 sigop
 935 2012-01-19 22:08:34 <BlueMatt> and makes more sense
 936 2012-01-19 22:08:43 <gavinandresen> ... but it actually could take 20,000 sigops to process
 937 2012-01-19 22:09:24 <BlueMatt> yes, but now you inadvertently created an undependable tx because you forgot to add up your sigopcount in addition to all the other crap you have to deal with
 938 2012-01-19 22:09:26 <gavinandresen> Each of the 1,000 inputs would be counted as 20 sigops, but they were counted at the wrong time
 939 2012-01-19 22:09:46 <gavinandresen> who forgot to add up?
 940 2012-01-19 22:09:58 <gavinandresen> You mean a client generating the transaction?
 941 2012-01-19 22:10:25 <BlueMatt> lets say Im writing a custom script with sigops in the outputs and whats required to sign
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 943 2012-01-19 22:10:29 <gavinandresen> If the client is generating the transaction then it must know the inputs (because it has to sign them)
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 945 2012-01-19 22:11:38 <BlueMatt> I just dont think it should be counting sigops towards a block that arent in a block
 946 2012-01-19 22:11:55 <BlueMatt> (and have already been counted in a previous block)(
 947 2012-01-19 22:12:05 <gavinandresen> counted in a different way....
 948 2012-01-19 22:12:14 <BlueMatt> counted just the same
 949 2012-01-19 22:12:23 <BlueMatt> finally, the new counting method should have a block lockin
 950 2012-01-19 22:12:46 <gavinandresen> The problem is a patient attacker can, at very low cost, insert a bunch of 'poison' transactions into the block-chain.
 951 2012-01-19 22:12:49 <BlueMatt> (in case some poolop thinks hes funny and makes a nice block which fails the new counting method before 0.6)
 952 2012-01-19 22:13:04 <gavinandresen> And then create a killer transaction that gathers them all up and is EXTREMELY expensive to validate
 953 2012-01-19 22:13:39 <gavinandresen> (you're right about the block lockin, that's a bug)
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 955 2012-01-19 22:14:00 <BlueMatt> mmm, thats fair...plus I just went ahead with my rebase so do as you wish
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 959 2012-01-19 22:20:06 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r67376ca0e1d9 cgminer/README: Update README + FAQ. http://tinyurl.com/7nynpra
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 964 2012-01-19 22:25:39 <BlueMatt> oh goddamit gavin, I wasnt done yet
 965 2012-01-19 22:27:46 <BlueMatt> ;;later tell gavinandresen ok, I think Im reading this wrong (or I hope I am), but the way I read this there are two ways sigops are added the old way (sigops in the tx) and the new way (ONLY sigops in scriptpubkeys of prevouts, not the ones in the current tx) that cant be right?
 966 2012-01-19 22:27:46 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
 967 2012-01-19 22:30:08 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * rc487383cf4bd cgminer/ (README main.c): Allow CPU mining explicitly enable only if other mining support is built in. http://tinyurl.com/79ayl8s
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 973 2012-01-19 22:38:21 <BlueMattBot> Yippie, build fixed!
 974 2012-01-19 22:38:22 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #181: FIXED in 57 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/181/
 975 2012-01-19 22:38:35 <BlueMatt> odd, oh well
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 992 2012-01-19 23:00:37 <TuxBlackEdo> is this a picture of the bitcoin devs? http://i.imgur.com/VhlQK.gif
 993 2012-01-19 23:01:00 <sipa> no, Satoshi
 994 2012-01-19 23:05:03 <BlueMatt> sipa, gmaxwell: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/771
 995 2012-01-19 23:05:22 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: TheBlueMatt opened pull request 771 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/771>
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1001 2012-01-19 23:15:08 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r15672b52a6cb cgminer/main.c: Allow invalid values to be in the configuration file, just skipping over them provided the rest of the file is valid JSON. This will allow older configuration files with options no longer existing to still be portable. http://tinyurl.com/7pymmqd
1002 2012-01-19 23:15:45 <luke-jr> http://bitcoinstats.org/ <-- useful
1003 2012-01-19 23:16:06 <BlueMatt> had you never seen that site?
1004 2012-01-19 23:16:37 <luke-jr> nope
1005 2012-01-19 23:16:42 <BlueMatt> dont know where they get their node count though
1006 2012-01-19 23:16:45 <luke-jr> too bad the Versions page is about to become useless :/
1007 2012-01-19 23:16:48 <BlueMatt> because thats just plain wrong
1008 2012-01-19 23:17:03 <BlueMatt> about to, as in?
1009 2012-01-19 23:17:12 <luke-jr> as in, the non-compliance with BIP 11
1010 2012-01-19 23:17:24 <BlueMatt> heh, like they are gonna care
1011 2012-01-19 23:17:25 <luke-jr> and the old versions being 60000 always
1012 2012-01-19 23:17:35 <BlueMatt> oh, yea
1013 2012-01-19 23:17:44 <BlueMatt> anyway, Im pretty sure that page is also very wrong
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1018 2012-01-19 23:26:37 <TuxBlackEdo> i don't know if this is the right channel to ask for help, but I am trying to run 0.5.2 on xp and it keeps crashing, and I am thinking it got to do with initial block download
1019 2012-01-19 23:26:44 <TuxBlackEdo> can i send someone my debug.log?
1020 2012-01-19 23:27:54 <BlueMatt> pastebin it
1021 2012-01-19 23:28:56 <sipa> BlueMatt: is CBlockStore functionally complete?
1022 2012-01-19 23:29:14 <BlueMatt> sipa: yes
1023 2012-01-19 23:29:22 <BlueMatt> aside from the perf issues
1024 2012-01-19 23:29:30 <BlueMatt> and spv mode isnt
1025 2012-01-19 23:29:33 <BlueMatt> (not even close)
1026 2012-01-19 23:29:33 <sipa> have you run it with DEBUG_LOCKORDER ?
1027 2012-01-19 23:29:36 <BlueMatt> yes
1028 2012-01-19 23:29:47 <sipa> i'm already impressed :)
1029 2012-01-19 23:29:56 <BlueMatt> and even a DEBUG_LOCKCONTENTION that prints when locks have to wait that I wrote :)
1030 2012-01-19 23:30:26 <BlueMatt> sipa: thanks
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