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 48 2012-01-21 02:04:55 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: luke-jr opened pull request 774 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/774>
 49 2012-01-21 02:06:45 <luke-jr> I wish GitHub put the summary in those -.-
 50 2012-01-21 02:07:44 <TuxBlackEdo> luke-jr, i wrote something to the blockchain!
 51 2012-01-21 02:07:49 <TuxBlackEdo> but
 52 2012-01-21 02:07:56 <TuxBlackEdo> i didnt know it would turn the message backwards
 53 2012-01-21 02:07:57 <TuxBlackEdo> lol
 54 2012-01-21 02:08:00 <luke-jr> …
 55 2012-01-21 02:08:19 <luke-jr> that makes you a graffiti spammer
 56 2012-01-21 02:08:29 <TuxBlackEdo> http://blockchain.info/tx-index/14551557/f6707e09bcf0bd80884a7ffd40b92357144e50a7a426b6cade8fe329d71ee9f2
 57 2012-01-21 02:08:36 <TuxBlackEdo> dude you did it like a million times
 58 2012-01-21 02:08:40 <TuxBlackEdo> i wanted to do it just once
 59 2012-01-21 02:09:01 <TuxBlackEdo> i am waiting for it to confirm in the next block
 60 2012-01-21 02:09:16 <TuxBlackEdo> so i can see if it shows up using "strings -n 20 blk0001.dat"
 61 2012-01-21 02:10:29 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
 62 2012-01-21 02:11:46 <luke-jr> no, I didn't.
 63 2012-01-21 02:12:42 <TuxBlackEdo> yeah you did
 64 2012-01-21 02:16:06 wirehead` has joined
 65 2012-01-21 02:16:21 <TuxBlackEdo> lol
 66 2012-01-21 02:16:23 <TuxBlackEdo> it showed up
 67 2012-01-21 02:16:28 <lianj> paying fees, pff
 68 2012-01-21 02:16:35 <TuxBlackEdo> !ti delipmoc yllaniF
 69 2012-01-21 02:16:35 <gribble> Error: "ti" is not a valid command.
 70 2012-01-21 02:17:19 <TuxBlackEdo> # tail -c 5000
 71 2012-01-21 02:17:19 <TuxBlackEdo> !ti delipmoc yllaniF
 72 2012-01-21 02:17:20 <gribble> Error: "ti" is not a valid command.
 73 2012-01-21 02:17:20 <TuxBlackEdo> !ti delipmoc yllaniF
 74 2012-01-21 02:17:20 <gribble> Error: "ti" is not a valid command.
 75 2012-01-21 02:17:37 <TuxBlackEdo> er
 76 2012-01-21 02:17:59 <TuxBlackEdo> luke-jr, tail -c 5000 ~/.bitcoin/blk0001.dat |strings -n 20
 77 2012-01-21 02:18:20 <luke-jr> TuxBlackEdo: mine aren't graffiti though
 78 2012-01-21 02:19:14 <TuxBlackEdo> yours isn't but mine is?
 79 2012-01-21 02:19:28 <luke-jr> correct
 80 2012-01-21 02:19:32 <luke-jr> yours is transaction spam
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 82 2012-01-21 02:19:43 <luke-jr> mine are in the coinbase, which was designed for it
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 84 2012-01-21 02:20:51 <TuxBlackEdo> you used up way more data in the blockchain then i have
 85 2012-01-21 02:21:55 <TuxBlackEdo> i think i should submit a patch for the windows makefile to make it compilable
 86 2012-01-21 02:24:03 * Diablo-D3 cackles
 87 2012-01-21 02:24:05 <Diablo-D3> I thought up new idea
 88 2012-01-21 02:25:03 vragnaroda has left ("meh")
 89 2012-01-21 02:25:44 * Diablo-D3 runs off to try it
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 92 2012-01-21 02:30:15 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr watch * r3ade39605b43 supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor-personal/plugin.py: hack to announce multi-output blocks in #eligius http://tinyurl.com/7vufxkd
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123 2012-01-21 04:06:31 <CIA-76> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * rea64dff / (2 files in 2 dirs): Improve kernel mangling parser, fix accidental disabling of BFI_INT - http://git.io/E_XO3Q https://github.com/Diablo-D3/DiabloMiner/commit/ea64dff10714794ffe805b8a4d53c3ed72c4c41b
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141 2012-01-21 05:05:43 <Joric> what's the story with the 1NS17iag9jJgTHD1VXjvLCEnZuQ3rJED9L ? who's address is that?
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152 2012-01-21 05:43:03 <gmaxwell> Joric: huh, what do you mean whats the story?
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161 2012-01-21 05:53:57 <etotheipi_> the Satoshi nodes require a fee for relay/mining for large size, btc*nconf is too low, or there's a dust output... what about a tx that spends outputs with zero-confirmations?
162 2012-01-21 05:55:03 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: it's just the same formula.
163 2012-01-21 05:55:21 <gmaxwell> If the only input is zero confirm then the priority of that txn will be 0 and need a fee.
164 2012-01-21 05:55:25 <etotheipi_> so as long as there's enough other outputs to exceed 1-BTC-at-144 confirmations, it's okay
165 2012-01-21 05:55:37 <gmaxwell> if there are multiple inputs then the priority may be high enough.. right.
166 2012-01-21 05:55:56 <etotheipi_> perfect... I had this all figured out before I integrated zero-conf transactions...
167 2012-01-21 05:56:03 <gmaxwell> though it won't be forwarded or mined by any node which isn't accepting the first.
168 2012-01-21 05:56:21 <etotheipi_> what does that mean?
169 2012-01-21 05:56:24 <etotheipi_> the first what?
170 2012-01-21 05:56:42 pickett has joined
171 2012-01-21 05:56:43 <gmaxwell> (er, if that wasn't clear: the txn which is not yet confirmed must be in the memory pool of any node that would forward or mine its child)
172 2012-01-21 05:57:03 <etotheipi_> oh, right
173 2012-01-21 05:57:24 <gmaxwell> so if the not yet confirmed transaction happens to be not confirmed because it's failing the fee rules and isn't getting forwarded, the second won't forward either if it meets the rules in isolation.
174 2012-01-21 05:57:36 <gmaxwell> Of even if the composition of the two meets the rules, which is arguably a bug.
175 2012-01-21 05:58:34 <etotheipi_> so then, it should be easy enough to request the first tx from the node, to determine if it has it in the memory pool
176 2012-01-21 05:58:47 <etotheipi_> then send your tx if it does
177 2012-01-21 06:01:27 <etotheipi_> and I'm sooo glad I lost my SelectCoins unit-test... ugh
178 2012-01-21 06:01:42 <gmaxwell> cute idea. (the probe idea)
179 2012-01-21 06:02:20 <etotheipi_> I know you don't like it, but for now I'm basically relying entirely on the localhost bitcoind to tell me that I did things right
180 2012-01-21 06:02:44 <etotheipi_> so before I add a tx to my own memory pool, I'm probing bitcoind to see if the tx is in its memory pool
181 2012-01-21 06:03:32 <etotheipi_> one day, I will cut the umbilical cord, and have independent networking, but right now it's pretty convenient to have bitcoin-qt/bitcoind between me and the network
182 2012-01-21 06:03:57 <etotheipi_> prob better for the network too.. since everyone who uses Armory will have to maintain the full-validation node in the background
183 2012-01-21 06:08:46 <etotheipi_> my understanding is, implementing full-validation is going to be a nightmare
184 2012-01-21 06:10:17 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r9a0bcc889084 cgminer/ (main.c miner.h): Bugfix: Iterate over devices rather than threads for watchdog (and ADL) http://tinyurl.com/74xd5h6
185 2012-01-21 06:10:18 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r1b0b7e4a7ca6 cgminer/ (main.c miner.h): Merge pull request #78 from luke-jr/bugfix_adl http://tinyurl.com/77snr6z
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187 2012-01-21 06:27:25 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: I don't dislike it, as much as it makes me sad because we really do need independant implementations of full validation.
188 2012-01-21 06:28:54 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, I agree with you in concept, but I feel I can add tremendously more value to Bitcoin (in general) by expanding functionality
189 2012-01-21 06:30:03 <gmaxwell> We don't agree, but thats okay. I think that value is added by there being different perspectives on what adds value to bitcoin.
190 2012-01-21 06:30:16 <etotheipi_> one day, I probably will do full-validation... but for now I believe that offline wallets, paper backups, and eventually multi-sig... all will help people use the network, which is what I think is needed
191 2012-01-21 06:30:57 <gmaxwell> (mostly my non-aggreement is that it so much easier and fun to make features in the context of 'toy' software rather than the full production code, we'll probably see lots of features made in systems like yours but not become easily accessible to most users)
192 2012-01-21 06:31:06 <etotheipi_> right now I see a big black hole with regards to security for companies that plan to handle LOTS of money... offline wallets solve that
193 2012-01-21 06:32:16 <etotheipi_> Armory is in no way toy software... I recognize that a lot of projects out there are more like experiments
194 2012-01-21 06:32:59 <etotheipi_> but it is production quality (or will be), and I have plans to bring system requirements down to "normal"... there's a reason I have separated "Standard" and "Advanced" usermodes (and "Developer"
195 2012-01-21 06:33:02 <gmaxwell> The fact that you have to use it on top of a full node and that it has resources requirements _in excess_ of a full node on its own greatly reduces its usability. I think in some ways this degrades it to toy status.
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197 2012-01-21 06:33:29 <etotheipi_> my goal was never to require it to suck lots of memory and require the full-node
198 2012-01-21 06:33:35 <etotheipi_> this is transient
199 2012-01-21 06:33:41 <gmaxwell> (the difficulty of running a full node is already a major usability problem in bitcoin)
200 2012-01-21 06:33:49 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: Okay, fine enough.
201 2012-01-21 06:34:10 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: I also still think your offline proposal has the wrong security properties.
202 2012-01-21 06:34:13 <etotheipi_> I totally agree with you if I thought regular uses would use it, as is
203 2012-01-21 06:34:52 <etotheipi_> but the fact is, I believe offline wallets are critical, and that people with shitloads of money won't care about buying a decent computer to do it... the fact is there is no other way to do it
204 2012-01-21 06:35:03 <gmaxwell> If a comprimised interface node can fake out the value of the transaction in order to bankrupt the offline wallet, in an undetectable way, I think you might as well not have an offline wallet.
205 2012-01-21 06:35:06 <etotheipi_> and eventually more people will have access when I switch
206 2012-01-21 06:35:40 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, you're focusing on the wrong part of it... this is not a problem so much as it is a precaution
207 2012-01-21 06:35:52 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: I say the same to you! :)
208 2012-01-21 06:36:06 <gmaxwell> I've hacked your interface node. This is the risk you worried about which is why your private keys are offline.
209 2012-01-21 06:36:07 <etotheipi_> it's like saying, don't use prime numbers, P whose P-1 has lots of small factors when picking RSA numbers
210 2012-01-21 06:36:43 <gmaxwell> I wait for you to do a transaction from it and I swap out the inputs so that you instead give away all your coins as fees.
211 2012-01-21 06:36:45 <etotheipi_> just because some prime numbers are insecure doesn't mean the whole system is broken, you just implement additional safeguards to make sure you don't "fall" for it
212 2012-01-21 06:36:48 <gmaxwell> You process it never the wisers.
213 2012-01-21 06:37:00 <gmaxwell> s/wisers/wiser/   until its too late.
214 2012-01-21 06:37:39 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: offline wallets that only provide highly speculative security improvements seem kind of worthless to me.
215 2012-01-21 06:38:20 <gmaxwell> With minor modification the offline system could independantly confirm the value and target of the transaction for confirmation. Then a compromise requires hacking the interface system and carelessness on the part of the offline node's operator.
216 2012-01-21 06:38:54 <gmaxwell> And by doing so would close real vulnerabilties.
217 2012-01-21 06:38:59 <etotheipi_> you're talking about complete subsets of existing problems with online wallets
218 2012-01-21 06:39:04 <gmaxwell> Not just speculative warm fuzzies.
219 2012-01-21 06:39:27 <etotheipi_> there's one to two orders of magnitude less risk with offline wallets than online wallets:  sure there's still attack vectors, but there's only a fraction of them
220 2012-01-21 06:40:15 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * rf634b68e7c93 cgminer/main.c: Bugfix: Only show each device once in exit summary http://tinyurl.com/84mu33e
221 2012-01-21 06:40:19 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r9bf2028d9bfc cgminer/main.c: Merge pull request #79 from luke-jr/bugfix_summary http://tinyurl.com/7xwzwtu
222 2012-01-21 06:40:19 <gmaxwell> No. I don't believe that you're correct. The interesting attack vector with online wallets which isn't closed by wallet encryption is that a hostile party gains control of the online wallet system. What other attacks are you concerned with?
223 2012-01-21 06:40:50 <etotheipi_> any attack that compromises the offline wallet also compromises an online wallet
224 2012-01-21 06:40:54 <_W_> etotheipi_, what is the average time a system stays infected undetected, once it has a virus or trojan?
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226 2012-01-21 06:41:53 <etotheipi_> this is one reason I do, eventually, want to make it even more secure, perhaps switch to purely-QR codes
227 2012-01-21 06:42:08 <etotheipi_> but just like everything else in the world, you have to start somewhere and evolve...
228 2012-01-21 06:42:33 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: Thats true, but misleading.  If every realistic attack that compromises the online(encrypted) wallet also compromises the offline one because the offline scheme is weak, then the offline system only added complexity. This complexity creates risks on its own, and as such your "strict subset of vulnerabilities" may actually be worse for users.
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230 2012-01-21 06:43:13 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: I don't understand why you don't just make it possible for the offline wallet to confirm the real values: Include the input transactions. It can hash them and confirm the values.
231 2012-01-21 06:43:21 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, one thing we agree on for sure is that the lack of being able to verify tx-inputs in an offline transaction is bad
232 2012-01-21 06:43:45 <gmaxwell> The the offline system can simply say "I'm going to sign this thing which spends 5 btc to X and pays 0 in fees. Are you sure?"
233 2012-01-21 06:43:52 <etotheipi_> if you ahve a recommendation for a way to securely do that, I'd love to hear it, but I haven't thought of a way yet
234 2012-01-21 06:43:57 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: !
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236 2012-01-21 06:44:14 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: sillyness. If the inputs aren't valid they just won't work. This isn't hard at all.
237 2012-01-21 06:44:42 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: send a copy of the input transactions. Thats it.  A dishonest interface node could DOS, but they couldn't make you burn coin.
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239 2012-01-21 06:45:04 <etotheipi_> I already include the tx-input values, but of course those could be manipulated, and the signed transaction will still be valid
240 2012-01-21 06:45:17 <k9quaint> I think at some fundamental level, offline confirmations are add odds with a web of trust model
241 2012-01-21 06:45:19 <etotheipi_> unfortunately, those values are not part of the signed message, which is what's killing me
242 2012-01-21 06:45:22 <gmaxwell> You need to include the whole input transactions so the offline node can compute the hashes themselves.
243 2012-01-21 06:45:43 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, that's a fine idea
244 2012-01-21 06:45:55 <gmaxwell> The outputs are part of the txn id of the inputs! :) yea. it should JustWork™
245 2012-01-21 06:46:14 <etotheipi_> I was leaning towards a less-bloaty way to do it... but at least I have that which works
246 2012-01-21 06:46:52 <gmaxwell> Yea, I don't think there is a less bloaty way. Sadly. You could have it remember the inputs, so they might already be there, but you still have to get them there.
247 2012-01-21 06:47:16 <gmaxwell>  but hey, a typical transaction is like.. what 250 bytes or so.. it's not that terrible.
248 2012-01-21 06:47:25 <etotheipi_> well if there's a dozen inputs...
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250 2012-01-21 06:47:38 <etotheipi_> that won't be fitting in a QR code
251 2012-01-21 06:47:58 <gmaxwell> there are QR codes that can contain 200k IIRC
252 2012-01-21 06:48:06 <etotheipi_> and there you have it... after all this my time spent on offlien transactions may not have been a waste
253 2012-01-21 06:48:45 <etotheipi_> I just don't like the attitude that you'll just critisize my first shot at it as if it's all set in stone and I refuse to improve it...
254 2012-01-21 06:49:02 <gmaxwell> if QR falls down you could use sound.. some 1200 baud FSK modem could easily be made to work over open air.  :)
255 2012-01-21 06:49:20 <etotheipi_> IR tx/rx could work well
256 2012-01-21 06:49:31 <_W_> Data Matrix barcodes are infinitely expandable. The limit would be what the device supported
257 2012-01-21 06:49:35 <gmaxwell> or just RS232.
258 2012-01-21 06:49:58 <etotheipi_> in fact, a lot of laptops already have IR tx/rx hardware
259 2012-01-21 06:50:02 <k9quaint> why don't you just print circuits out of conductive ink, and hook your paper up to the internet
260 2012-01-21 06:50:09 <gmaxwell> (I mean, you can't really say RS232 is less secure than IR.. just because there is no 'wire' doesn't really matter)
261 2012-01-21 06:50:21 <gmaxwell> but sure, existing hardware is nice
262 2012-01-21 06:51:55 <gmaxwell> ideally you'd want to be able to have some harded secure hardware that looks like a tamagotchi. :) stores a determinstic wallet seed in encrypted form. you IRDA over the txn, it asks for a confirmation then asks you to punch in the decrpytion key, then it IRDAs back the signed transaction.
263 2012-01-21 06:52:23 <etotheipi_> well I'll keep in mind the idea of including full tx... I had glossed over it in my head before, but for some reason figured I'd need the full chain of tx, not just the most recent ones
264 2012-01-21 06:52:55 <etotheipi_> probably nothing as fancy as you suggest, though :)
265 2012-01-21 06:53:15 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
266 2012-01-21 06:53:45 <etotheipi_> and for now, it's time for bed
267 2012-01-21 06:53:50 <etotheipi_> thanks gmaxwell
268 2012-01-21 06:53:51 <gmaxwell> goodnight!
269 2012-01-21 06:54:00 <gmaxwell> Thanks for listening to me rant. :)
270 2012-01-21 06:54:13 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: hate 2.6 so goddamned much
271 2012-01-21 06:56:34 <k9quaint> Diablo-D3: you should have a flag to print out the device list
272 2012-01-21 06:57:15 <Diablo-D3> k9quaint: it does it on startup anyhow
273 2012-01-21 06:58:05 <k9quaint> thats if you want to run everything at the same time
274 2012-01-21 06:58:25 <Diablo-D3> it lists it in order
275 2012-01-21 06:58:37 da2ce7 has quit (2!~da2ce7@gateway/tor-sasl/da2ce7|Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
276 2012-01-21 06:59:04 <k9quaint> if I just want to run a single device in isolation, I gotta run aticonfig and add 1 :P
277 2012-01-21 06:59:40 <Diablo-D3> no you dont
278 2012-01-21 06:59:43 <Diablo-D3> you look at the list and count.
279 2012-01-21 06:59:49 <Diablo-D3> FOUND 5850
280 2012-01-21 06:59:49 <Diablo-D3> FOUND 5850
281 2012-01-21 06:59:50 <Diablo-D3> FOUND 5850
282 2012-01-21 06:59:50 <Diablo-D3> FOUND 5850
283 2012-01-21 06:59:54 <Diablo-D3> well, I want the third 5850
284 2012-01-21 06:59:57 <Diablo-D3> so -D 3
285 2012-01-21 07:00:37 <k9quaint> like I said, I have to run everything first
286 2012-01-21 07:00:37 <Mad7Scientist> bitcoin is locked up again on I/O to ~/.bitcoin/
287 2012-01-21 07:00:56 <Mad7Scientist> blank window. Miner disconnected.
288 2012-01-21 07:01:15 <gmaxwell> Mad7Scientist: Yes, mr. NFS man. Include backtraces with your complaints. :)
289 2012-01-21 07:01:17 <Mad7Scientist> the longer I leave bitcoin open the worse this gets
290 2012-01-21 07:02:16 <gmaxwell> (otherwise you're asking me to spent the time to setup a slow low memory NFS client on a slow network.. just to try to reproduce what you're already reproducing)
291 2012-01-21 07:02:40 <Mad7Scientist> You probably have enough disk cache to not see this problem as well as most bitcoin users
292 2012-01-21 07:02:41 <k9quaint> gmaxwell: well, typing on IRC is just going to slow you down, go reproduce it!
293 2012-01-21 07:02:46 <Mad7Scientist> I don't think it's related to NFS
294 2012-01-21 07:03:09 <Mad7Scientist> 12MB/sec is not slow
295 2012-01-21 07:03:16 <gmaxwell> Mad7Scientist: I believe your problem is real. I also believe it requires low cache _and_ some kind of slowish media.
296 2012-01-21 07:03:18 da2ce7 has joined
297 2012-01-21 07:03:22 <gmaxwell> It's slow compared to anything I normally run.
298 2012-01-21 07:03:38 <gmaxwell> I'm not discounting your problem at all. I think it's very important.
299 2012-01-21 07:03:46 <k9quaint> I can write faster left-handed on 3M stick notes
300 2012-01-21 07:04:07 <gmaxwell> But I can't easily reproduce it.  Sooo.. it would be super useful if you could identify what code paths are causing it to get stuck most often.
301 2012-01-21 07:04:10 <Mad7Scientist> There is one thread that is "D" in top
302 2012-01-21 07:04:16 <Mad7Scientist> and it has been that way for 5 minutes
303 2012-01-21 07:04:18 Nicksasa has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
304 2012-01-21 07:04:20 <gmaxwell> Mad7Scientist: great, attack to it with gdb and get a backtrace.
305 2012-01-21 07:04:27 <gmaxwell> er attach.
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307 2012-01-21 07:04:43 <Mad7Scientist> I might try later this week
308 2012-01-21 07:04:56 <Mad7Scientist> I hope the default binary has debugging enabled
309 2012-01-21 07:05:04 <Mad7Scientist> well it just unfroze
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311 2012-01-21 07:05:12 <gmaxwell> OK, please do. With a backtrace the problem should be super obvious.
312 2012-01-21 07:05:38 <gmaxwell> Mad7Scientist: I believe it has symbols.
313 2012-01-21 07:05:54 <gmaxwell> (er, well I think it has good odds of being obvious at least.)
314 2012-01-21 07:05:55 <cjdelisle> love when it trashes the stack and it's like:  well... it was a memcpy() :)
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322 2012-01-21 08:15:25 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r3cad815e0f58 cgminer/README: Fanspeed faq. http://tinyurl.com/7mkzv2g
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333 2012-01-21 08:42:30 <helo> ssh bitcoin pubkey authentication?
334 2012-01-21 08:45:22 <cjdelisle> shhh
335 2012-01-21 08:46:58 <gmaxwell> helo: I don't think that makes much useful sense.
336 2012-01-21 08:47:23 <gmaxwell> Going to extract a bitcoin private key to feed to your ssh client? why bother. Just use regular ssh keys.
337 2012-01-21 08:48:11 <gmaxwell> If you have some inner hatred of RSA and want to use some other crypto, ... just because, then you want http://ed25519.cr.yp.to/
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339 2012-01-21 08:59:17 <cjdelisle> <3 djb
340 2012-01-21 08:59:30 <cjdelisle> I saved one processor cycle today, #winning
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390 2012-01-21 11:50:01 <sh69dow> how do I bitcoin mine to make monies?
391 2012-01-21 11:50:31 <nathan7> First you buy a €1000 mining rig
392 2012-01-21 11:50:37 <nathan7> *or* find yourself a time machine
393 2012-01-21 11:50:40 <nathan7> and start mining
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398 2012-01-21 12:01:19 <sh69dow> nathan7: I want to mine bro
399 2012-01-21 12:01:50 <nathan7> Then get a proper mining rig, will run you around €600 to €1000
400 2012-01-21 12:03:32 <nathan7> I wish the market would swing up and down so much
401 2012-01-21 12:04:12 booo has joined
402 2012-01-21 12:05:47 <sh69dow> ok, I have a atom motherboard with 525 cpu
403 2012-01-21 12:05:53 <sh69dow> That good for mining?
404 2012-01-21 12:06:16 <nathan7> No.
405 2012-01-21 12:06:33 <nathan7> Well, you can give it a try and feed the bot the number of Mhash/s
406 2012-01-21 12:06:43 <nathan7> and it'll tell you how many years it'll take you to generate a block
407 2012-01-21 12:06:54 <nathan7> note that this is an average - if you're lucky, you could get a block right away
408 2012-01-21 12:07:00 <nathan7> or get a block after 100 years
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449 2012-01-21 14:30:14 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Kano * r0eb5d5ecae36 cgminer/api-example.c: Fix send() for JSON strings http://tinyurl.com/6rp8pl4
450 2012-01-21 14:30:16 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Kano * rb2e15e493e92 cgminer/linux-usb-cgminer: Include HDD install details and related changes http://tinyurl.com/7omxkcv
451 2012-01-21 14:30:17 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Kano * r8e275d9f23e6 cgminer/api.c: Make all CPU code compile time optional - off by default http://tinyurl.com/772woa2
452 2012-01-21 14:30:18 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r6ab1f1c39546 cgminer/ (api-example.c api.c linux-usb-cgminer): Merge pull request #80 from kanoi/master http://tinyurl.com/7pocoj5
453 2012-01-21 14:35:18 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r0e5b6583f16b cgminer/main.c: qd_lock initialisation got dropped. Fix it. http://tinyurl.com/72cnlro
454 2012-01-21 14:35:19 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * rdd4597081395 cgminer/ (api-example.c api.c linux-usb-cgminer): Merge branch 'master' of github.com:ckolivas/cgminer http://tinyurl.com/7bcqhdu
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457 2012-01-21 14:55:18 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r2d5bbc7756d9 cgminer/miner.h: Provide nanosleep() equivalent for windows. http://tinyurl.com/6n633hq
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485 2012-01-21 16:55:18 <CIA-76> bitcoin: p2k * rbde6c5196c56 ecoinpool/ (18 files in 3 dirs): Share Logging Framework; Extended Shares Logging http://tinyurl.com/7zcxexy
486 2012-01-21 16:55:19 <CIA-76> bitcoin: p2k * r246b3572ee94 ecoinpool/apps/ecoinpool/src/ (4 files): Share Logging Framework http://tinyurl.com/6rmcub8
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501 2012-01-21 17:22:33 <kinlo> is there some kind of UML of the bitcoin source?
502 2012-01-21 17:30:34 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Oops. My brain just hit a bad sector)
503 2012-01-21 17:31:07 <BlueMatt> heh yea right
504 2012-01-21 17:32:41 <sipa> there is doxygen documentation
505 2012-01-21 17:32:47 <kinlo> BlueMatt: it would help :)
506 2012-01-21 17:32:56 <kinlo> sipa: on a public url?
507 2012-01-21 17:33:15 <sipa> i believe so, wumpus maintains (maintained?) it
508 2012-01-21 17:33:33 <kinlo> lxr should be usefull too I guess
509 2012-01-21 17:34:03 <BlueMatt> having better code would also be useful
510 2012-01-21 17:34:42 <sipa> slowly getting there :)
511 2012-01-21 17:34:54 <kinlo> bitcoin is difficult to read :/
512 2012-01-21 17:35:50 <BlueMatt> oh, having comments would also be useful
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520 2012-01-21 17:41:36 <diki> 40k blocks left
521 2012-01-21 17:42:10 danbri has joined
522 2012-01-21 17:42:22 <roconnor> what happens in 40k blocks?
523 2012-01-21 17:44:47 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
524 2012-01-21 17:44:47 <gribble> 163241
525 2012-01-21 17:45:03 <sipa> no idea?
526 2012-01-21 17:45:28 <roconnor> oh maybe diki is downloading the blockchain
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531 2012-01-21 18:09:06 <diki> no
532 2012-01-21 18:09:12 <diki> I am importing it into mysql
533 2012-01-21 18:09:21 <diki> its going to take a couple of days
534 2012-01-21 18:11:28 foggyb has joined
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536 2012-01-21 18:17:59 <diki> but in 40k from current block count, the block reward is halved
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538 2012-01-21 18:22:21 <TuxBlackEdo> ;;bc,halfreward
539 2012-01-21 18:22:22 <gribble> Estimated time of bitcoin block reward halving: Tue Dec 11 02:57:00 2012 | Time remaining: 46 weeks, 2 days, 16 hours, 40 minutes, and 0 seconds
540 2012-01-21 18:22:33 <TuxBlackEdo> ;;help bc,halfreward
541 2012-01-21 18:22:33 <gribble> (bc,halfreward <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "echo Estimated time of bitcoin block reward halving: [ctime [math calc [at [time]] + [bc,sectohalve]]] | Time remaining: [elapsed [bc,sectohalve]]".
542 2012-01-21 18:22:47 <TuxBlackEdo> ;;help bc,sectohalve
543 2012-01-21 18:22:47 <gribble> (bc,sectohalve <an alias, 0 arguments>) -- Alias for "math calc (210000 - [bc,blocks])*60*10".
544 2012-01-21 18:22:58 <TuxBlackEdo> ;;calc 210000 - [bc,blocks]
545 2012-01-21 18:22:59 <gribble> 46756
546 2012-01-21 18:23:13 <TuxBlackEdo> 46756 blocks left, diki, not 40k
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557 2012-01-21 18:44:04 <diki> TuxBlackEdo:I was not specific. One thing people should know about me, if I write an exat number, no 41,65460856 then that means I always mean approximately
558 2012-01-21 18:44:13 <diki> *exact
559 2012-01-21 18:47:17 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
560 2012-01-21 18:51:21 <luke-jr> 46756 isn't even approximately 40k
561 2012-01-21 18:52:07 <k9quaint> so we should also not pay attention when you type numbers (in addition to letters)
562 2012-01-21 18:52:19 <k9quaint> what about special and non-printable characters?
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578 2012-01-21 19:30:41 <Diablo-D3> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3494323
579 2012-01-21 19:30:48 <Diablo-D3> calling all HN users: time to mod that up
580 2012-01-21 19:31:16 Mango-chan has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
581 2012-01-21 19:32:07 <BlueMatt> what are you even referring to?
582 2012-01-21 19:33:26  has joined
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586 2012-01-21 19:35:12 <Diablo-D3> bluematt: hrm?
587 2012-01-21 19:35:44 <BlueMatt> I think everyone reading hn who doesnt live under a rock has heard of bitcoin, what is that gonna do?
588 2012-01-21 19:36:04 <Diablo-D3> HN has an ongoing war against bitcoin
589 2012-01-21 19:36:15 <Diablo-D3> but if pro bitcoin commnets get highly moderated, they cant deny it
590 2012-01-21 19:37:03 <k9quaint> Diablo-D3: butterfly labs, my prediction is if the niners win, it is not for real
591 2012-01-21 19:37:14 <k9quaint> if the giants win, those FPGAs are good as gold
592 2012-01-21 19:37:22 user__ has joined
593 2012-01-21 19:37:44 <Diablo-D3> who?
594 2012-01-21 19:37:48 <Diablo-D3> are those sports teams?
595 2012-01-21 19:37:49 <BlueMatt> heh, conditional predictions
596 2012-01-21 19:37:57 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: hes referring to the super bowl...
597 2012-01-21 19:38:00 <Diablo-D3> k9quaint: I dont care if its real or not
598 2012-01-21 19:38:00 <BlueMatt> (football)
599 2012-01-21 19:38:04 <BlueMatt> (american football)
600 2012-01-21 19:38:14 <Diablo-D3> I just need to kick people periodically to keep the flame wars down
601 2012-01-21 19:38:21 <Diablo-D3> as in, with my foot
602 2012-01-21 19:39:44 <k9quaint> Diablo-D3: I think goat likes you
603 2012-01-21 19:42:23 graingert has joined
604 2012-01-21 19:44:36 DaQatz is now known as pibot
605 2012-01-21 19:45:39 pibot is now known as DaQatz
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616 2012-01-21 20:10:34 <hexx> Hi guys, does anyone have any advices for developing exchange? I plan to write one in .NET, I will make it open source.
617 2012-01-21 20:10:52 <BlueMatt> dont use floats
618 2012-01-21 20:11:21 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
619 2012-01-21 20:11:47 <hexx> yea I know that
620 2012-01-21 20:11:56 <hexx> But I havent desided what to use
621 2012-01-21 20:12:02 <hexx> decimal or int/long ?
622 2012-01-21 20:12:09 kjj has joined
623 2012-01-21 20:12:14 <hexx> any pros/cons ?
624 2012-01-21 20:12:26 <BlueMatt> Id go int, but meh
625 2012-01-21 20:12:33 <BlueMatt> s/int/long/
626 2012-01-21 20:13:47 <hexx> is that how bitcoin internaly works ?
627 2012-01-21 20:14:25 graingert has joined
628 2012-01-21 20:16:06 <hexx> also does anyone have any security advices ?  I plan to have offline wallet. Also strict DB security. All interaction over stored procedures.
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631 2012-01-21 20:20:23 <sipa> hexx: bitcoin internally uses 64-bit integer multiples of 0.00000001 BTC
632 2012-01-21 20:21:26 DaQatz is now known as PiBot
633 2012-01-21 20:22:30 PiBot is now known as DaQatz
634 2012-01-21 20:22:55 <Diablo-D3> k9quaint: meh, goats very lucky he isnt banned
635 2012-01-21 20:24:05 <hexx> then I will use that
636 2012-01-21 20:24:08 <sipa> hexx: note that nothing prevents your exchange from doing calculations and keeping balances at higher accuracy
637 2012-01-21 20:24:27 <Diablo-D3> SIPA lawlz
638 2012-01-21 20:25:00 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
639 2012-01-21 20:25:18 [\\\] is now known as imsaguy
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641 2012-01-21 20:26:18 <hexx> Why would I need that ?
642 2012-01-21 20:26:44 <hexx> that is allready much more then enough precision
643 2012-01-21 20:30:46 <sipa> rounding errors will be in the order of 0.00000001 BTC then, which is visible
644 2012-01-21 20:32:21 <TuxBlackEdo> ;;calc 1024/20
645 2012-01-21 20:32:21 <gribble> 51.2
646 2012-01-21 20:32:27 <TuxBlackEdo> ;;calc 1024/20*0.03
647 2012-01-21 20:32:27 <gribble> 1.536
648 2012-01-21 20:33:23 <TuxBlackEdo> ;;calc 1024/20*0.0031
649 2012-01-21 20:33:24 <gribble> 0.15872
650 2012-01-21 20:33:34 <TuxBlackEdo> ;;calc 0.15872*1024
651 2012-01-21 20:33:34 <gribble> 162.52928
652 2012-01-21 20:33:46 <TuxBlackEdo> 162.52928/0.03
653 2012-01-21 20:33:50 <TuxBlackEdo> ;;calc 162.52928/0.03
654 2012-01-21 20:33:50 <gribble> 5417.64266667
655 2012-01-21 20:34:20 <TuxBlackEdo> ;;calc [ticker --last]*0.00050001
656 2012-01-21 20:34:20 <gribble> 0.00312771
657 2012-01-21 20:34:37 iocor has joined
658 2012-01-21 20:34:43 <TuxBlackEdo> ;;calc (1024/20)*0.00050001
659 2012-01-21 20:34:43 <gribble> 0.0256
660 2012-01-21 20:34:53 <TuxBlackEdo> ;;calc 0.0256*1024
661 2012-01-21 20:34:54 <gribble> 26.2144
662 2012-01-21 20:35:18 <hexx> And does anybody know what could be possible attacking vectors beside SQL injection and XSS ?
663 2012-01-21 20:35:44 foggyb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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667 2012-01-21 20:48:41 <BlueMatt> anyone want to guess as to the most common lock which blocks a bitcoin thread while downloading blocks?
668 2012-01-21 20:48:54 <BlueMatt> s/as to/what/
669 2012-01-21 20:49:05 <BlueMatt> s/?/is ?/
670 2012-01-21 20:50:39 <sipa> tell me
671 2012-01-21 20:50:46 hexx has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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673 2012-01-21 20:51:08 <sipa> most common as in most often locking, or as in being most of the time locked?
674 2012-01-21 20:51:37 <BlueMatt> most common lock which has to be waited for
675 2012-01-21 20:52:02 <BlueMatt> cs_wallet if you have txes in the blocks or cs_vNodes
676 2012-01-21 20:53:46 <sipa> vNodes... that shouldn't happen
677 2012-01-21 20:53:57 <sipa> is this in master or in cblockstore?
678 2012-01-21 20:54:01 <BlueMatt> master
679 2012-01-21 20:54:13 <BlueMatt> not blocking block download, but its the only lock that really ever gets waited on
680 2012-01-21 20:54:44 <BlueMatt> its master + https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/commit/938ab33aaeaaac50c4d33e39842f4bef49540875
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690 2012-01-21 21:15:27 <CIA-76> bitcoin: jedi95 * r8263f658c835 Phoenix-Miner/ (7 files in 5 dirs): Add X-Work-Identifier support to RPC for better compatibility with P2Pool. Tweaked kernel worksize validation. Bump version to 1.7.4 http://tinyurl.com/7yot6kt
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696 2012-01-21 21:27:16 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: TheBlueMatt opened pull request 775 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/775>
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731 2012-01-21 22:36:35 <diki> damn
732 2012-01-21 22:36:39 <diki> I need to rebuild the db now...
733 2012-01-21 22:36:41 <diki> cool....
734 2012-01-21 22:37:01 <diki> It took me over 2 days to get to blk 130k, now I have to do it all over again
735 2012-01-21 22:40:41 eldentyrell has joined
736 2012-01-21 22:41:43 <Joric> i'm playing with multibit (multibit.org) how come the whole bitcoinj blockchain is 17 megs and downloading in 30 seconds?
737 2012-01-21 22:42:00 <sipa> because it is not the entire block chain
738 2012-01-21 22:42:04 <sipa> only headers
739 2012-01-21 22:42:20 ras_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
740 2012-01-21 22:42:25 <Joric> how do they send transactions then if they don't know inputs
741 2012-01-21 22:42:35 <sipa> you always know your own inputs
742 2012-01-21 22:42:50 <sipa> but you can't verify anything happening on the network
743 2012-01-21 22:43:08 <sipa> only trust that the chain with the highest work amount is legitimate
744 2012-01-21 22:44:12 <diki> which is rather unlikely to not be bitcoin so...
745 2012-01-21 22:45:19 <CIA-76> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * re15d57d729c8 cgminer/ (README main.c miner.h util.c): Implement socks4 proxy support. http://tinyurl.com/7rz8n7q
746 2012-01-21 22:45:53 <Joric> why they even need blocks then
747 2012-01-21 22:46:10 <sipa> because even bitcoinj downloads blocks
748 2012-01-21 22:46:17 <sipa> to know payments to yourself
749 2012-01-21 22:46:22 <sipa> it just doesn't store them
750 2012-01-21 22:47:35 <roconnor> where can I find amoury?
751 2012-01-21 22:47:40 <roconnor> etotheipi_: ^^
752 2012-01-21 22:47:51 <sipa> roconnor: see the forum
753 2012-01-21 22:48:05 <roconnor> the forum? >_>
754 2012-01-21 22:48:12 <sipa> bitcointalk.org
755 2012-01-21 22:48:23 <sipa> in the dev section, under alternative clients
756 2012-01-21 22:49:48 <diki> slush:I sent you a PM, but since the PM system is a bit wonky, I will ask you here as well. Can you upload a mysql dump of Abe, because I got the duplicate entry error, and the torrent has no seeds
757 2012-01-21 22:51:05 datagutt has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
758 2012-01-21 22:51:07 <slush> diki: torrent has the seed again, sorry, mistake on my side
759 2012-01-21 22:51:51 <diki> thanks :)
760 2012-01-21 22:52:24 <slush> hm, but there was one seed on my webserver running all the time
761 2012-01-21 22:52:44 <sipa> a seed "running"?
762 2012-01-21 22:53:58 <diki> just a quickie. When I import the dump, will abe be able to continue, or will it ask for a rebuild?
763 2012-01-21 22:54:42 <slush> diki: read the abe forum thread, there's some variable which need to be reset
764 2012-01-21 22:55:02 <slush> then you can start abe and it will continue without any hacking
765 2012-01-21 22:55:06 slush1 has joined
766 2012-01-21 22:55:35 <slush> well, there will be one more seed in few minutes, downloading will be much faster then
767 2012-01-21 22:56:51 <slush> diki: how many seeds do you see?
768 2012-01-21 22:57:07 <etotheipi_> roconnor, http://bitcoinarmory.com/
769 2012-01-21 22:58:04 <diki> slush:1(1)
770 2012-01-21 22:58:16 <diki> ok speed jumped to 200 kilobytes/s
771 2012-01-21 22:59:57 <slush> diki: if you can, add manual seed from palatinus.cz:10001 . For some reason this client cannot connect to tracker.
772 2012-01-21 23:00:38 <BlueMatt> etotheipi_: does armory use satoshi client code or all from the ground up (or another client?)
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775 2012-01-21 23:02:03 <diki> slush:added, however still no dice
776 2012-01-21 23:03:22 <etotheipi_> BlueMatt, it's all from the ground up
777 2012-01-21 23:03:31 <etotheipi_> it only uses the Satoshi client as an interface to the BTC network
778 2012-01-21 23:03:44 <sipa> why do you still need that?
779 2012-01-21 23:04:29 <gmaxwell> sipa: because it only implements a fraction of the validation logic.
780 2012-01-21 23:04:30 graingert1 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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782 2012-01-21 23:05:01 <sipa> well, as long as it only trusts the best chain, it's no less secure than a lightweight client
783 2012-01-21 23:05:41 <etotheipi_> though my top priority after Armory-alpha, is "normal" RAM req'ts and independent networking
784 2012-01-21 23:07:40 <Joric> does it use boost? )
785 2012-01-21 23:09:40 <BlueMatt> etotheipi_: the interface with the network is what, just the net code or the net code and block/tx verification or what?
786 2012-01-21 23:10:13 <etotheipi_> I use the Satoshi client to get zero-conf tx, and broadcast transactions
787 2012-01-21 23:10:43 <etotheipi_> Armory is just a very dumb node/peer on localhost with only those two functions... it dramatically simplifies the networking :)
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790 2012-01-21 23:12:25 <BlueMatt> mmm
791 2012-01-21 23:14:03 shadders has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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796 2012-01-21 23:15:23 <jjjrmy> "Runtime Error! Program C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\bitcoin-qt.exe This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in a unusual way."
797 2012-01-21 23:15:25 <jjjrmy> please help
798 2012-01-21 23:15:28 <jjjrmy> "Runtime Error! Program C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\bitcoin-qt.exe This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in a unusual way."
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804 2012-01-21 23:22:00 <BlueMatt> last line in debug.log?
805 2012-01-21 23:23:37 <diki> slush:Don't know what you did, but the speed upped to 1.1mb/s
806 2012-01-21 23:23:50 <diki> and rising
807 2012-01-21 23:24:07 <slush> diki: you finally connected to my server :)
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813 2012-01-21 23:29:21 <diki> ok got it
814 2012-01-21 23:29:36 <slush> can you seed it for some time, please?
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816 2012-01-21 23:30:51 <diki> sure
817 2012-01-21 23:31:21 <diki> I've seeded torrents for less than 10 seconds after download time
818 2012-01-21 23:31:29 <diki> and i've seeded torrents for well over a year
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827 2012-01-21 23:40:21 <roconnor> ah crap, the transaction that my rogue relayer relayed; turns out I mined it myself :(
828 2012-01-21 23:40:42 <BlueMatt> heh
829 2012-01-21 23:40:48 <roconnor> I should have noticed
830 2012-01-21 23:41:03 <BlueMatt> does your miner mine anything the regular client wouldnt have?
831 2012-01-21 23:41:14 <roconnor> yep
832 2012-01-21 23:41:18 <BlueMatt> how so?
833 2012-01-21 23:41:31 <roconnor> my rogue relayer is simply a modified standard client
834 2012-01-21 23:41:36 <BlueMatt> IsStandard() { return true; }
835 2012-01-21 23:41:45 <roconnor> on testnet, IsStandard is ignored
836 2012-01-21 23:42:00 <sipa> on testnet, IsStandard() always returned true already, no?
837 2012-01-21 23:42:07 <BlueMatt> I was asking what modifications you made?
838 2012-01-21 23:42:15 colin_ has joined
839 2012-01-21 23:42:16 <BlueMatt> ie do you just ignore isstandard, or what?
840 2012-01-21 23:42:25 colin_ is now known as clr_
841 2012-01-21 23:42:44 <BlueMatt> sipa: I know IsStandard isnt called on testnet, dont know what it returns though (havent looked at that code in a long time)
842 2012-01-21 23:42:51 <roconnor> I've modified CTransaction::AcceptToMemoryPool
843 2012-01-21 23:42:57 clr_ is now known as c00w
844 2012-01-21 23:43:00 <BlueMatt> roconnor: with what?
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846 2012-01-21 23:43:02 <roconnor>     for (int i = 0; i < vin.size(); i++)
847 2012-01-21 23:43:03 <roconnor>     {
848 2012-01-21 23:43:05 <roconnor>         const char* latin = "Stack is innocent";
849 2012-01-21 23:43:06 <roconnor>         vin[i].scriptSig = CScript(vector<unsigned char>((const unsigned char*)latin, (const unsigned char*)latin + strlen(latin))) + vin[i].scriptSig;
850 2012-01-21 23:43:08 <roconnor>     }
851 2012-01-21 23:43:09 <roconnor> is added
852 2012-01-21 23:43:42 <Eliel> :D
853 2012-01-21 23:43:52 <BlueMatt> so in other words it doesnt mine anything that the regular client wouldnt
854 2012-01-21 23:43:59 <BlueMatt> (at least in terms of checks)
855 2012-01-21 23:44:16 <roconnor> BlueMatt: ya sorry I wasn't clear due to the negative of your question.
856 2012-01-21 23:44:18 <BlueMatt> is that addition before or after all the checks?
857 2012-01-21 23:44:26 <a_meteorite> That Bitcoin Armory client looks interesting
858 2012-01-21 23:44:31 <gmaxwell> well, it does— his rogue relayer may not be successful without his own mining simply because it'll be late.
859 2012-01-21 23:44:41 <a_meteorite> etotheipi_: are you the developer on it?
860 2012-01-21 23:44:56 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: unless you are ie the first one who gets it
861 2012-01-21 23:45:00 <roconnor> BlueMatt: it is before most checks, but after the non-excecuted IsStandard and after not sigop_counting
862 2012-01-21 23:45:13 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: or something like that.
863 2012-01-21 23:45:17 <Eliel> a_meteorite: he is.
864 2012-01-21 23:45:28 <BlueMatt> wait, you did this on testnet, I thought it was on mainnet?
865 2012-01-21 23:45:33 <gmaxwell> (you don't have to be _first_ strictly)
866 2012-01-21 23:45:44 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: well yea, just early
867 2012-01-21 23:45:44 * Diablo-D3 DOES SCIENCE!
868 2012-01-21 23:45:47 <BlueMatt> (and better peered)
869 2012-01-21 23:46:01 <roconnor> BlueMatt: I'm told messing around on mainnet is frowned upon
870 2012-01-21 23:46:04 <a_meteorite> Do you know if anyone else works (or uses) on it? Using an alternative client does make me a bit concerned with security
871 2012-01-21 23:46:17 <roconnor> a_meteorite: it is in beta, or pre-beta
872 2012-01-21 23:46:18 <BlueMatt> roconnor: no, better that you did on testnet, I just thought it was main
873 2012-01-21 23:46:46 <BlueMatt> (the original satoshi client is also in beta for the record...)
874 2012-01-21 23:47:01 <sipa> a_meteorite: armory depends on the satoshi client
875 2012-01-21 23:47:10 <sipa> for now
876 2012-01-21 23:47:27 <a_meteorite> sipa: so it's more of a frontend?
877 2012-01-21 23:47:32 <sipa> no
878 2012-01-21 23:47:43 <sipa> but it connects with the network through bitcoind
879 2012-01-21 23:47:49 <a_meteorite> ah
880 2012-01-21 23:47:57 <BlueMatt> its a full client, but it puts a satoshi client in front of itself
881 2012-01-21 23:48:06 <BlueMatt> (well full -networking)
882 2012-01-21 23:49:53 <a_meteorite> heh, full blockchain in RAM
883 2012-01-21 23:49:57 <Joric> it needs original client running side by side
884 2012-01-21 23:49:58 <a_meteorite> glad I got 8GB :)
885 2012-01-21 23:50:05 <Joric> just tried to launch it
886 2012-01-21 23:50:11 pumpkin has joined
887 2012-01-21 23:50:13 * BlueMatt runs bitcoin with ~/.bitcoin mounted on tmpfs
888 2012-01-21 23:50:22 <BlueMatt> (and often multiple datadirs)
889 2012-01-21 23:51:46 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
890 2012-01-21 23:51:46 pumpkin is now known as copumpkin
891 2012-01-21 23:52:28 <etotheipi_> a_meteorite, I'm the Armory developer
892 2012-01-21 23:53:16 <roconnor> does Armory really hold everything in memory?
893 2012-01-21 23:53:24 <etotheipi_> yeah, there's some caveats with armory, which I hope to remove when I go from alpha to beta... for now I decided that since the functionality works and is useful, I should make it avail to users that can run it
894 2012-01-21 23:53:26 <roconnor> I mean the whole blockchain
895 2012-01-21 23:53:35 <etotheipi_> roconnor, it does hold the whole blockchain in ram
896 2012-01-21 23:53:36 <roconnor> ie, should I turn on swap?
897 2012-01-21 23:53:54 wirehead has joined
898 2012-01-21 23:53:56 <etotheipi_> which is why it's so damned fast:  I can scan a fresh set of addresses in 0.75s to get balances and unspent outputs
899 2012-01-21 23:53:57 <Joric> 'loading blockchain please wait'
900 2012-01-21 23:54:04 <Joric> i only have 2gb
901 2012-01-21 23:54:09 <a_meteorite> the sweeping and offline stuff looks killer
902 2012-01-21 23:54:19 <roconnor> oh wait, I just want to run it on testnet
903 2012-01-21 23:54:20 <etotheipi_> 2 GB is a stretch...
904 2012-01-21 23:54:22 <roconnor> so that is fine
905 2012-01-21 23:54:31 <etotheipi_> testnet can be run on any system
906 2012-01-21 23:54:35 <a_meteorite> I just get a slight antsy with my wallet in the hands of less-tested code
907 2012-01-21 23:54:55 <etotheipi_> a_meteorite, that's why it's not even alpha yet... though I've managed a lot of transactions so far and there's not a hint of a problem
908 2012-01-21 23:55:07 <a_meteorite> cool
909 2012-01-21 23:55:09 <etotheipi_> thoroughly tested myself, but I'm waiting for more users to test before I release alpha
910 2012-01-21 23:55:27 <Eliel> a_meteorite: you might want to use a new wallet and do remember to keep a backup if you put bitcoins in there :)
911 2012-01-21 23:55:36 <a_meteorite> I can test on OS X and Windows (don't use Linux much on desktops)
912 2012-01-21 23:55:49 <etotheipi_> however, if you use it on an offline computer, it doesn't load any blockchain so there's virtually no mem reqts
913 2012-01-21 23:55:51 <a_meteorite> though my wallet is on my Windows partition, would have to see about moving it over to OS X
914 2012-01-21 23:56:12 <etotheipi_> I actually just adopted an old system with 512 MB of RAM just for keeping an offline wallet
915 2012-01-21 23:56:41 <etotheipi_> a_meteorite, I currently don't know a thing about OSX or developing/compiling for it... I actually really need someone to help
916 2012-01-21 23:56:45 <a_meteorite> That offline bit is just awesome
917 2012-01-21 23:57:17 <etotheipi_> the offline wallets were my holy grail feature that inspired the whole project
918 2012-01-21 23:57:20 <a_meteorite> etotheipi_: I could help, but I'd need a little shove in the direction of moving my (pretty outdated) blockchain and wallet from Windows to OS X
919 2012-01-21 23:57:36 <a_meteorite> Though I'm set-up for compiling and can give it a go
920 2012-01-21 23:57:38 <etotheipi_> a_meteorite, I recommend not moving anything yet
921 2012-01-21 23:57:54 <etotheipi_> make a new wallet, print a paper backup, and transfer some coins in
922 2012-01-21 23:57:54 <sipa> etotheipi_: so, we could make you pretty pissed by adding that to the satoshi client? ;)
923 2012-01-21 23:57:59 <a_meteorite> k
924 2012-01-21 23:58:12 toffoo has joined
925 2012-01-21 23:58:18 <roconnor> a_meteorite: print on acid-free thesis paper
926 2012-01-21 23:58:37 <roconnor> a_meteorite: and while you are at it, put it in your thesis, that way no one will ever find it.
927 2012-01-21 23:59:08 <etotheipi_> sipa, I wouldn't be pissed... if anything I'd be glad to see the Satoshi client implement some of this stuff since it will maintain "monopoly" in the BTC world, I'd like to think I influenced the addition by adding competition :)
928 2012-01-21 23:59:09 <a_meteorite> Just got some acid free heavy (not cardstock) paper with a laser printer
929 2012-01-21 23:59:19 * roconnor realizes that most people here are probably not academics ...
930 2012-01-21 23:59:36 <a_meteorite> I will be in a few years, but only Master's
931 2012-01-21 23:59:36 <sipa> roconnor: those that are in #haskell as well may be :)
932 2012-01-21 23:59:51 <etotheipi_> paper backups are also a holy-grail feature... I *hate* backing up to USB keys, because I never know if they're going to work when I plug them in 6 months later... so I have to keep multiple keys
933 2012-01-21 23:59:53 <a_meteorite> I really don't want a CS PhD :)