1 2012-01-27 00:00:12 <theymos> Hopefully if I break it into many small jobs I can get enthusiastic (and able) newbies to work on it for their first BTC. (Or I might end up doing almost all of it very gradually in my spare time.)
  2 2012-01-27 00:00:47 <splatster> I'll do some work
  3 2012-01-27 00:01:12 <splatster> no need for payment unless it's huge
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  5 2012-01-27 00:03:08 <theymos> splatster: Cool. If I don't end up accepting any bids for the whole project, I'll make a document containing instructions for each piece and I'll send you the link.
  6 2012-01-27 00:03:38 <splatster> cool thanks
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 13 2012-01-27 00:24:43 <kinlo> There is no tag for the 0.5.2 release of bitcoin in the git repository?
 14 2012-01-27 00:25:49 <CIA-2> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * ra3c7710d5834 eloipool/eloipool.py: Bugfix: coinbase txnid doesn't belong in merged-mining merkle-link http://tinyurl.com/6wrgvlf
 15 2012-01-27 00:31:26 <kinlo> does anyone knows from which commit the 0.5.2 release is made?
 16 2012-01-27 00:31:44 <kinlo> or how I can find that for myself?
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 22 2012-01-27 00:37:16 <sipa> kinlo: stable releases are maintained by luke on gitorious
 23 2012-01-27 00:37:28 <sipa> http://gitorious.org/bitcoin/bitcoind-stable
 24 2012-01-27 00:38:17 <kinlo> ic
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 30 2012-01-27 00:48:02 <NxTitle> hello all, is it possible to chain pushpools? i.e. I run a pool that connects to a larger pool
 31 2012-01-27 00:48:18 <NxTitle> and if not, could someone guide me on how to implement it myself?
 32 2012-01-27 00:49:56 <NxTitle> IIRC, pushpoold requires a SIGUSR1 to be sent to it in order to update the work, in order for long polling to work
 33 2012-01-27 00:50:33 <kinlo> NxTitle: yes you can chain, but as you said longpolling will be a problem
 34 2012-01-27 00:50:42 <kinlo> you could use blkmon, but that's just ugly
 35 2012-01-27 00:50:51 <NxTitle> in that case, would I be able to just make a program that long polls a pool, and sends a SIGUSR1 on update to the local pushpoold?
 36 2012-01-27 00:51:03 <kinlo> yes you could
 37 2012-01-27 00:51:34 <NxTitle> wonderful - are there any inherent problems with this strategy that you can tell?
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 39 2012-01-27 00:52:18 <kinlo> perhaps a bit added latency, but in some cases it might be a good solution, for example to do a proxy on your home network
 40 2012-01-27 00:52:46 <luke-jr> NxTitle: pushpool basically sucks
 41 2012-01-27 00:53:15 <kinlo> NxTitle: pushpool doesn't suck if you don't have a huge hashrate, you can easily do 50 GH/s
 42 2012-01-27 00:53:28 <NxTitle> luke-jr: I agree with this :P however should I use the alternative?
 43 2012-01-27 00:53:37 <NxTitle> there was one I read about that was written in java
 44 2012-01-27 00:53:39 <kinlo> there is no alternative
 45 2012-01-27 00:53:48 <kinlo> no, that one can't chain, it creates own work
 46 2012-01-27 00:53:50 <NxTitle> wasn't there some PushPoolJ or something?
 47 2012-01-27 00:53:52 <luke-jr> NxTitle: I don't know any that support proxying
 48 2012-01-27 00:54:01 <kinlo> poolserverJ
 49 2012-01-27 00:54:01 <luke-jr> other than intentional proxies
 50 2012-01-27 00:54:09 <kinlo> but the latest version makes own work
 51 2012-01-27 00:54:11 <NxTitle> yes, that was it
 52 2012-01-27 00:54:14 <kinlo> as all pool software
 53 2012-01-27 00:54:24 <kinlo> so you're stuck with pushpool
 54 2012-01-27 00:54:41 <kinlo> but pushpool is more then ok if you're not talking about huge hashrates
 55 2012-01-27 00:54:52 <NxTitle> I'm talking about 38 GH/s
 56 2012-01-27 00:54:59 <kinlo> that's fine
 57 2012-01-27 00:55:05 <NxTitle> alright
 58 2012-01-27 00:55:07 <kinlo> well
 59 2012-01-27 00:55:17 <kinlo> that's fine if that's from GPU's :)
 60 2012-01-27 00:55:49 <CIA-2> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r9e98e3e6636d eloipool/jsonrpcserver.py: JSONRPCServer: Refactor longpolling to occur within the regular thread, eliminating all locks http://tinyurl.com/839jp7d
 61 2012-01-27 00:55:50 <CIA-2> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r3525dd0c2f10 eloipool/jsonrpcserver.py: Bugfix: Fix TopLPers tool http://tinyurl.com/7aps4oz
 62 2012-01-27 00:55:55 <NxTitle> indeed it is :) though if I managed to find enough CPUs to mine 38 GH/s then... I'd question my hobbies
 63 2012-01-27 00:56:09 <kinlo> hehe
 64 2012-01-27 00:56:35 <NxTitle> anyways, thanks for the help and insight - now to read up on the bitcoind/pushpoold JSON docs :P
 65 2012-01-27 00:56:36 <kinlo> may I ask what you're trying to do?
 66 2012-01-27 00:56:46 <kinlo> you don't need bitcoind to chain
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 68 2012-01-27 00:57:03 <NxTitle> well no, however I'd assume bitcoind and pushpoold are fairly similar
 69 2012-01-27 00:57:11 <kinlo> not really
 70 2012-01-27 00:57:19 <NxTitle> oh, alright
 71 2012-01-27 00:57:27 <kinlo> oh, you mean the protocol?
 72 2012-01-27 00:57:31 <NxTitle> yeah
 73 2012-01-27 00:57:40 <NxTitle> not the programs themselves :P
 74 2012-01-27 00:57:44 <kinlo> well, getwork is just one of many commands from bitcoin
 75 2012-01-27 00:57:51 <kinlo> pushpool only makes that one available
 76 2012-01-27 00:58:06 <kinlo> but the getwork from bitcoin is not as extensive
 77 2012-01-27 00:58:22 <NxTitle> ah
 78 2012-01-27 00:58:27 <NxTitle> yeah, getwork should be all I need
 79 2012-01-27 00:58:39 <kinlo> for example, bitcoind doesn't support longpolling
 80 2012-01-27 00:58:53 <kinlo> may I ask what you're trying to do?
 81 2012-01-27 00:59:54 <NxTitle> basically I just want to see if I can save bandwidth this way, if I hook all of my machines up to a local pushpool, which then connects out to another pushpool rather than a bitcoind
 82 2012-01-27 01:00:30 <NxTitle> and it's not a big deal, it's more or less to see 1) if it makes a difference, and 2) just to see if I can :P
 83 2012-01-27 01:00:58 <luke-jr> NxTitle: it certainly wouldn't save bandwidth O.o
 84 2012-01-27 01:01:06 <kinlo> 1) no, 2) dunno
 85 2012-01-27 01:01:18 <luke-jr> NxTitle: also, you'll lose 99% of your shares
 86 2012-01-27 01:01:32 <luke-jr> pushpool does 2 things:
 87 2012-01-27 01:01:33 <NxTitle> how would that happen?
 88 2012-01-27 01:01:38 <luke-jr> 1) tracks how many shares each user submitted
 89 2012-01-27 01:01:47 <luke-jr> 2) only sends ones over difficulty 256 upstream
 90 2012-01-27 01:01:55 <luke-jr> other than that, it's literally just a HTTP proxy
 91 2012-01-27 01:02:01 <kinlo> NxTitle: yes, you would need to patch out #2
 92 2012-01-27 01:02:04 <kinlo> rather important
 93 2012-01-27 01:02:20 <NxTitle> I thought #2 could be configured
 94 2012-01-27 01:02:24 <kinlo> luke-jr: not really, pushpool does more
 95 2012-01-27 01:02:25 <luke-jr> I don't think it can.
 96 2012-01-27 01:02:28 <kinlo> NxTitle: no it's hardcoded
 97 2012-01-27 01:02:29 <NxTitle> hmm
 98 2012-01-27 01:02:35 <luke-jr> kinlo: not really significant :P
 99 2012-01-27 01:02:35 <kinlo> NxTitle: I've read the code, I know :)
100 2012-01-27 01:02:36 <NxTitle> okay, must have looked at something else then
101 2012-01-27 01:02:48 <kinlo> luke-jr: it is, it is even the most important feature of pushpool
102 2012-01-27 01:02:49 <NxTitle> alright :P
103 2012-01-27 01:02:49 <luke-jr> NxTitle: if you want to save bandwidth, try an efficient miner
104 2012-01-27 01:02:56 <luke-jr> NxTitle: right now, my custom poclbm is the most efficient
105 2012-01-27 01:03:02 <luke-jr> kinlo: ?
106 2012-01-27 01:03:17 <kinlo> luke-jr: check for duplicates and validity of shares!
107 2012-01-27 01:03:30 <luke-jr> kinlo: true, but that's part of #1 ☺
108 2012-01-27 01:03:34 <NxTitle> alright, for now I'll abandon this idea
109 2012-01-27 01:03:40 <kinlo> ok :)
110 2012-01-27 01:03:41 <NxTitle> luke-jr: even more than phatk and phatk2?
111 2012-01-27 01:03:51 <luke-jr> NxTitle: that's the kernel, totally unrelated to efficiency
112 2012-01-27 01:03:57 <luke-jr> NxTitle: poclbm uses the phatk kernel IIRC
113 2012-01-27 01:04:01 <NxTitle> do you mean efficient in terms of hashrate or bandy?
114 2012-01-27 01:04:10 <luke-jr> efficient is shares per getwork
115 2012-01-27 01:04:11 <NxTitle> ah, makes sens
116 2012-01-27 01:04:26 <kinlo> NxTitle: are you on dialup?
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119 2012-01-27 01:04:39 <kinlo> NxTitle: getwork's are not that big of a deal in terms of bandwidth
120 2012-01-27 01:04:52 <NxTitle> kinlo: nope, this idea was more of an experiment than anything
121 2012-01-27 01:04:52 <luke-jr> I'm developing for cgminer now, but it seems conman is opposed to making it more efficient :/
122 2012-01-27 01:05:07 <Graet> lol
123 2012-01-27 01:05:11 <Graet> troll troll
124 2012-01-27 01:05:17 <luke-jr> Graet: no, he said so himself
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128 2012-01-27 01:05:44 <Graet> where?
129 2012-01-27 01:05:51 <luke-jr> [Tuesday, January 24, 2012] [8:57:24 PM] <conman> luke-jr continuously tries to commit patches to cgminer to make eligius not work so hard and I do exactly the opposite
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131 2012-01-27 01:06:34 <Graet> well thats about a pool specific patch for your pool. doesnt say anything about efficiency
132 2012-01-27 01:06:58 <NxTitle> kinlo: is latency a big deal in pools? i.e. if I have 500-1000ms lag will I have problems?
133 2012-01-27 01:06:58 sacarlson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
134 2012-01-27 01:07:17 <kinlo> NxTitle: there is a block on average every 10 minutes
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136 2012-01-27 01:07:43 <kinlo> so if you have let's say 10 seconds of latency, you will loose 10/600
137 2012-01-27 01:07:44 <luke-jr> Graet: no, it isn't.
138 2012-01-27 01:07:50 <luke-jr> Graet: none of my patches are Eligius-specific
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140 2012-01-27 01:08:05 <NxTitle> kinlo: perfect, thanks for your help
141 2012-01-27 01:08:40 <kinlo> NxTitle: you will see that in your pool as "stales"
142 2012-01-27 01:08:52 <NxTitle> ah, I see
143 2012-01-27 01:09:01 <Graet> it's ok luke-jr i know you put a different interpretation on most things to most ppl
144 2012-01-27 01:09:11 <NxTitle> I was playing around with p2pool and ~22% of my shares are stales
145 2012-01-27 01:09:12 <luke-jr> Graet: tell me which patch is Eligius-specific
146 2012-01-27 01:09:14 <Graet> got better to do than listen tom your fud
147 2012-01-27 01:09:19 <NxTitle> even with the forrest mod
148 2012-01-27 01:09:39 <Graet> l8rs
149 2012-01-27 01:09:39 <kinlo> NxTitle: do not compare p2pool to shares on a real pool
150 2012-01-27 01:09:46 <kinlo> p2pool is different
151 2012-01-27 01:09:55 <luke-jr> p2pool tells you relative stales too IIRC
152 2012-01-27 01:10:07 <luke-jr> relative stales are more or less equivalent
153 2012-01-27 01:10:16 <NxTitle> 2012-01-26 20:02:13.590152 Pool: 143GH/s in 17366 shares (17118/17370 verified) Recent: 9.93% >14241MH/s Shares: 330 (20 orphan, 49 dead) Peers: 10
154 2012-01-27 01:10:17 <kinlo> also, p2pool has a "block" every 10 seconds
155 2012-01-27 01:10:19 <NxTitle> 2012-01-26 20:02:13.590271 Average time between blocks: 0.45 days
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157 2012-01-27 01:10:21 <NxTitle> 2012-01-26 20:02:13.590428 Pool stales: 11% Own: 21?4% Own efficiency: 89?5%
158 2012-01-27 01:10:30 <kinlo> so latency is much more dangerous
159 2012-01-27 01:10:36 <NxTitle> ah, I see
160 2012-01-27 01:11:29 <luke-jr> NxTitle: what's with all those questionamrks
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162 2012-01-27 01:11:58 <kinlo> I'm off, bye
163 2012-01-27 01:12:37 <NxTitle> luke-jr: I think they're supposed to be periods, but I honestly have no idea - I assume it's to do with unicode
164 2012-01-27 01:12:43 <NxTitle> kinlo: thanks for you help
165 2012-01-27 01:12:48 <NxTitle> s/you/&r/
166 2012-01-27 01:12:51 <luke-jr> i c
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172 2012-01-27 01:34:38 <Auctus> is there a reason the client has no option to move the data directory?
173 2012-01-27 01:34:55 <Auctus> I try to keep my non-system things on a drive other than C
174 2012-01-27 01:36:20 <luke-jr> Auctus: I just set HOME before I run bitcoind ;)
175 2012-01-27 01:37:03 <luke-jr> though it would be trivial to patch in an option
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178 2012-01-27 01:37:47 <Auctus> yeah, the average end-user is not going to know how to do anything outside the client, i think it'd be a good idea, even if you can't change it from the client, at least ask at install time
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181 2012-01-27 01:40:48 <CIA-2> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * ra9f222702d02 eloipool/merklemaker.py: Track lowest merkleroot volumes seen http://tinyurl.com/6msntzm
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183 2012-01-27 01:42:05 <sipa> Auctus: what about -datadir= ?
184 2012-01-27 01:43:58 <luke-jr> sipa: does that work? I didn't see it in the code O.o
185 2012-01-27 01:44:54 <sipa> sure it works
186 2012-01-27 01:45:11 <sipa> it's how testnet-in-a-box works, eg
187 2012-01-27 01:45:37 <gmaxwell> I use datadir all the time.. only sane way to run a bunch of copies of bitcoin.
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189 2012-01-27 01:48:25 <sipa> nice trick: symlink blkindex.dat and blk0001.dat in all bitcoin dirs to the same place
190 2012-01-27 01:50:03 <gmaxwell> sipa: I tried using btrfs cow on blk0001.dat to split one node into several without wasting space .. but bitcoin is obviously much slower on btrfs so it wasn't worth it.
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195 2012-01-27 01:50:37 <luke-jr> sipa: that works? O.o
196 2012-01-27 01:51:00 <luke-jr> I'd expect the nodes to conflict
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198 2012-01-27 01:51:21 <sipa> conflict?
199 2012-01-27 01:51:41 <sipa> luke-jr: oh, not for multiple copies at the same time
200 2012-01-27 01:52:07 <luke-jr> :/
201 2012-01-27 01:52:18 <gmaxwell> (yea, what I did worked for multiple copies at the same time— except for btrfs being slow)
202 2012-01-27 01:53:01 <gmaxwell> I was thinking perhaps if I moved the file size cap down I'd get a blk0002.dat and blk0001.dat could just be symlinked.. but I didn't bother actually looking into that.
203 2012-01-27 01:59:15 <forrestv> NxTitle, luke-jr, they're ±'s
204 2012-01-27 01:59:53 <forrestv> NxTitle, want come to #p2pool ? the high amount of dead shares would indicate that your miner is misconfigured
205 2012-01-27 02:00:25 <NxTitle> sure
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215 2012-01-27 02:56:36 <wirehead> \
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217 2012-01-27 03:05:03 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: Have you tried it on MurderFS?
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223 2012-01-27 03:30:50 <sipa> midnightmagic: you mean reiserfs?
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245 2012-01-27 04:24:58 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat
246 2012-01-27 04:25:36 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: wat?
247 2012-01-27 04:25:40 <Diablo-D3> wat.
248 2012-01-27 04:25:45 <BlueMatt> what?
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250 2012-01-27 04:26:38 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sipa opened pull request 787 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/787>
251 2012-01-27 04:27:10 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: wtf???
252 2012-01-27 04:27:37 <Diablo-D3> blueMatt: wat!
253 2012-01-27 04:27:57 <BlueMatt> javascript...oh god :O
254 2012-01-27 04:28:20 <Diablo-D3> the last one is the best one
255 2012-01-27 04:29:21 <BlueMatt> WATMAN
256 2012-01-27 04:29:30 <BlueMatt> that was pretty good
257 2012-01-27 04:32:05 <k9quaint> nananana :)
258 2012-01-27 04:32:43 <k9quaint> the fact that most of the web is written in javascript is proof that there is a god
259 2012-01-27 04:32:52 <k9quaint> because I died and went to hell
260 2012-01-27 04:33:02 <k9quaint> and here I am, surrounded by javascript :(
261 2012-01-27 04:33:34 <k9quaint> which makes you guys either my tormentors, or also dead and cast down into hell
262 2012-01-27 04:33:51 <gmaxwell> sipa: whats the capacity like with the bias against duplication?
263 2012-01-27 04:33:53 dissipate_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
264 2012-01-27 04:34:38 <BlueMatt> k9quaint: considering I gave up trying to use javascript years ago, Id say Im not in hell
265 2012-01-27 04:34:42 <BlueMatt> so I guess tormentors?
266 2012-01-27 04:34:59 <BlueMatt> though boost is pretty shitty sometimes too...
267 2012-01-27 04:37:04 <sipa> gmaxwell: i have a node running now for some time, with currently 35 connections; i have 9000 addresses
268 2012-01-27 04:37:37 <sipa> though for a non-reachable node it make take quite some more time to reach that number, as the number of sources is limited
269 2012-01-27 04:37:53 <sipa> oh, IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAND
270 2012-01-27 04:38:01 <gmaxwell> hah
271 2012-01-27 04:38:10 <gmaxwell> What was Diablo-D3's line.
272 2012-01-27 04:38:15 <gmaxwell> er, That was.
273 2012-01-27 04:38:20 <k9quaint> wat
274 2012-01-27 04:38:43 <gmaxwell> sipa: what are you using for the source info on the addr.dat imports?
275 2012-01-27 04:39:07 <phantomcircuit> sipa, did you just import your changes to what is considered a good address to store?
276 2012-01-27 04:39:23 <sipa> gmaxwell: 127.0.0.1
277 2012-01-27 04:39:45 <sipa> phantomcircuit: hmm?
278 2012-01-27 04:40:02 <phantomcircuit> yeah
279 2012-01-27 04:40:05 <phantomcircuit> 787
280 2012-01-27 04:40:27 <phantomcircuit> Keep the address tables in-memory, and asynchronously dump the entire to able in addr.dat.
281 2012-01-27 04:40:28 <phantomcircuit> hehe
282 2012-01-27 04:40:29 <phantomcircuit> typo
283 2012-01-27 04:40:29 <BlueMatt> good conversation: "hmm?" "yeah" "787"
284 2012-01-27 04:41:24 <splatster> Diablo-D3: is that video with a real crowd
285 2012-01-27 04:41:29 JRWR has joined
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287 2012-01-27 04:42:11 <phantomcircuit> if (nTime > nNow + 10*60) // came in a flying DeLorean
288 2012-01-27 04:42:13 <phantomcircuit> lollll
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291 2012-01-27 04:42:43 <BlueMatt> we need more similar comments like that in bitcoin
292 2012-01-27 04:42:45 <Diablo-D3> splatster: yes
293 2012-01-27 04:42:53 <splatster> this is great
294 2012-01-27 04:45:26 <sipa> please test :)
295 2012-01-27 04:46:44 <marf_away> no
296 2012-01-27 04:46:47 <marf_away> the comment is bad
297 2012-01-27 04:46:55 <marf_away> i dont understand it
298 2012-01-27 04:47:02 <marf_away> delorean fast or slow?
299 2012-01-27 04:47:14 <BlueMatt> stop trolling
300 2012-01-27 04:47:24 <sipa> marf_away: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096874/
301 2012-01-27 04:47:34 <marf_away> i know the movi
302 2012-01-27 04:47:41 <marf_away> but is it slow or fast?
303 2012-01-27 04:47:59 <BlueMatt> its a time-traveling car, does it matter how fast it goes?
304 2012-01-27 04:48:01 <marf_away> he needed a steamtrain = slow
305 2012-01-27 04:48:28 graingert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
306 2012-01-27 04:48:35 <marf_away> ok now i understand
307 2012-01-27 04:48:45 <marf_away> its from the future...
308 2012-01-27 04:48:56 <BlueMatt> ...
309 2012-01-27 04:48:59 <marf_away> connection from the future
310 2012-01-27 04:49:16 <marf_away> ok :P comment is funny but bad
311 2012-01-27 04:49:17 <marf_away> :P
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320 2012-01-27 05:27:16 <phantomcircuit> sipa, seems a bit... randomly organized :)
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328 2012-01-27 06:10:50 <CIA-2> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r9af60344fe75 eloipool/jsonrpcserver.py: Disable early longpoll headers for PhoenixMiner < 2.8.1 http://tinyurl.com/829l3zn
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347 2012-01-27 07:30:18 splatster has quit (Quit: You know what this is.  It's a celebration, bitches!)
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353 2012-01-27 07:50:47 <CIA-2> bitcoin: jedi95 * rc1bf824af77d Phoenix-Miner/minerutil/RPCProtocol.py: Fix small mistake in x-roll-ntime RPC code. Not worth a version bump since this functionality isn't used just yet. http://tinyurl.com/7bt2b4k
354 2012-01-27 07:50:48 ovidiusoft2 has joined
355 2012-01-27 07:56:11 <Hunterbunter> what would be the most effective language to code a site like mtgox in?
356 2012-01-27 07:56:14 dr_win has joined
357 2012-01-27 07:56:35 TD has joined
358 2012-01-27 07:56:36 <Hunterbunter> I'n not really a web programmer, more c++ etc, but it's all very interesting
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363 2012-01-27 08:11:03 <CIA-2> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r4bc3c011eaad eloipool/ (bitcoin/node.py eloipool.py merklemaker.py): Make BitcoinNode more robust, and use checksum on ver message http://tinyurl.com/7zvyyga
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399 2012-01-27 10:07:26 <weex> can the timestamp of a transaction be trusted not to change(i.e. is it encoded in the transaction message)?
400 2012-01-27 10:08:07 <cjd> in general, never ever trust timestamps
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402 2012-01-27 10:08:18 <josephcp> the timestamp is encoded as part of the hash so it can't be edited by other parties, however, its accuracy isn't guaranteed, from what I understand
403 2012-01-27 10:08:53 <weex> ok, i'll not use the timestamp then :)
404 2012-01-27 10:09:11 <cjd> mm if it's hashed into the tx then it's probably accurate to within about 2 hours IIRC
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454 2012-01-27 13:28:34 <BCBot>  Stats: http://bit.ly/bitcoin-irc-stats
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547 2012-01-27 17:11:10 <luke-jr> makomk: ping
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554 2012-01-27 17:35:53 <CIA-2> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r68ca277f4259 eloipool/ (bitcoin/node.py eloipool.py): Dump block payload to log, and store it in an unbounded array just in case http://tinyurl.com/85xes2r
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561 2012-01-27 17:51:30 <makomk> luke-jr: hmmmmm?
562 2012-01-27 17:52:16 <luke-jr> makomk: interested in reinventing CoiledCoin? :P
563 2012-01-27 17:52:26 BlueMatt has joined
564 2012-01-27 17:52:26 <makomk> Not particularly, no.
565 2012-01-27 17:52:40 <luke-jr> oh
566 2012-01-27 17:52:53 <luke-jr> I was thinking it might make sense for BIP 16 & 17 :p
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570 2012-01-27 18:09:39 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: ping
571 2012-01-27 18:09:53 <luke-jr> BIP 16 states "The rules for validating these outpoints when relaying transactions or considering them for inclusion in a new block are as follows:"
572 2012-01-27 18:10:06 <luke-jr> does that mean the blocks themselves are valid if they contain transactions violating these rules?
573 2012-01-27 18:10:20 <gavinandresen> ... after the switchover date, yes.  Not before.
574 2012-01-27 18:10:37 <luke-jr> err, you mean the inverse of that? O.o
575 2012-01-27 18:10:45 <luke-jr> they're valid before, not after?
576 2012-01-27 18:10:48 <gavinandresen> "These same rules shall be applied when validating transactions in blocks with timestamps after February 15, 2012"
577 2012-01-27 18:10:59 <luke-jr> OK
578 2012-01-27 18:11:14 <luke-jr> what if there's a backward timestamp BTW? <.<
579 2012-01-27 18:11:40 <gavinandresen> If the backwards timestamp is before the switchover time then the rules do not apply to that block
580 2012-01-27 18:11:58 <luke-jr> interesting
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584 2012-01-27 18:15:45 <BlueMatt> so in other words dont use p2sh txes until a day or two after the switchover date
585 2012-01-27 18:18:10 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: back to the sigop count stuff: why even bother with legacy/p2sh differentiation, why not just change GetSigOpCount to count p2sh sigops and not bother changing anything else?
586 2012-01-27 18:18:54 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: month or two after
587 2012-01-27 18:19:08 <gavinandresen> Yes, I'd wait at least a week or three.
588 2012-01-27 18:19:32 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: the latest code makes the sigopcount Legacy+p2sh
589 2012-01-27 18:19:49 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: why write code for both?
590 2012-01-27 18:19:49 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: ... which is the most conservative way to avoid potential chain splits
591 2012-01-27 18:19:53 BTC_Bear is now known as BTC_Bear|hbrntng
592 2012-01-27 18:19:54 <BlueMatt> why not just add them together
593 2012-01-27 18:19:59 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: p2sh is only secure if it has a forever majority, that won't be completely sure until lots of clients are updated.
594 2012-01-27 18:20:01 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: that's what the code does now
595 2012-01-27 18:20:30 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: true, but I was just commenting on the backwards timestamp issue
596 2012-01-27 18:20:33 <makomk> I presume the older version of the code never made it out there onto mining pools?
597 2012-01-27 18:20:35 occulta has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
598 2012-01-27 18:20:43 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: but yea, shouldnt be used for longer than that anyway
599 2012-01-27 18:20:59 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: the code now has GetLegacySigOpCount and GetP2SHSigOpCount, why both?
600 2012-01-27 18:21:13 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: why not just GetSigOpCount the way it used to be and add in p2sh ops there?
601 2012-01-27 18:22:21 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: because it is somewhat expensive to fetch transaction inputs, and there's an 'early out' in CheckBlock if the block has an out-of-bounds number of legacy sigops.  Seemed wise to keep that check there for DoS prevention.
602 2012-01-27 18:23:09 <BlueMatt> I suppose you cant do it without fetching the prevouts?
603 2012-01-27 18:23:17 <gavinandresen> Nope.
604 2012-01-27 18:23:27 lianj has joined
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607 2012-01-27 18:24:32 <BlueMatt> you cant blindly guess if the last string on the scriptSig is unserializeable and count it even if the prevout doesnt make it a p2sh tx?
608 2012-01-27 18:24:59 <BlueMatt> or is that too ugly?
609 2012-01-27 18:25:24 * BlueMatt -> class leave interesting messages with gribble
610 2012-01-27 18:25:27 <gavinandresen> Uhhh.....     that seems like a good way for somebody to craft a signature that DOES look like code and get a blockchain split to happen....
611 2012-01-27 18:25:27 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
612 2012-01-27 18:30:40 <Eliel> gavinandresen: what mechanism is used to do the coordinated activation of the new rules?
613 2012-01-27 18:31:15 <Eliel> does every pool have to activate them themselves or is there some kind of automation?
614 2012-01-27 18:31:32 <gavinandresen> Eliel: miners all run with the same -paytoscripthashtime= argument.  Feb 15'th is compiled into the code right now, but that'll probably get pushed
615 2012-01-27 18:32:13 <gavinandresen> Eliel: miners have a very strong incentive not to be the only ones doing the extra validation...  since if they mess up it is THEIR blocks that will be orphaned.
616 2012-01-27 18:35:56 storrgie has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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618 2012-01-27 18:37:39 <Eliel> ah, ok, so there's no code that tracks the voting result and activates the new code once the past 2016 blocks show sufficient support.
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626 2012-01-27 18:39:18 <gmaxwell> Fedora updated their openssl, I've thrown up new F16 RPMS (for anyone who cares): http://people.xiph.org/~greg/openssl/
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630 2012-01-27 18:46:59 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: btw, -paytoscripthashtime= is broken for both BIP 16 and 17 implementations right now
631 2012-01-27 18:47:26 <gavinandresen> how so?  There was a missing dash.....
632 2012-01-27 18:47:38 <gavinandresen> ... but that's fixed.
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636 2012-01-27 18:49:40 <roconnor__> what appears in debug.log when BitcoinMiner finds a block?
637 2012-01-27 18:49:42 Ahimoth has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
638 2012-01-27 18:49:44 roconnor__ is now known as roconnor
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640 2012-01-27 18:50:05 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: oh, you fixed that? nm
641 2012-01-27 18:50:50 <gavinandresen> btcmine just found a minor bug in the pre-0.4 backports, too...
642 2012-01-27 18:53:44 barmstrong has joined
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644 2012-01-27 18:55:59 <CIA-97> libbitcoin: genjix * rbf2c3734458b / (5 files in 4 dirs): Huge readability win in exchange for drop in speed during rare corner case. http://tinyurl.com/79nxnca
645 2012-01-27 18:57:03 inlikeflynn has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
646 2012-01-27 18:58:23 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: the backports are one major advantage of BIP 17 when it comes to implementation IMO
647 2012-01-27 18:58:31 <luke-jr> BIP 16's backport is 10 times more invasive
648 2012-01-27 18:58:36 <luke-jr> (in LOC)
649 2012-01-27 18:59:19 <CIA-97> bips: genjix master * r8230665 / bip-0017.md : BIP 0017 - http://git.io/IjZEoA https://github.com/genjix/bips/commit/823066539702dcf9af226527454281919c3d8265
650 2012-01-27 18:59:20 <CIA-97> bips: genjix master * r0455253 / bip-0001.md : BIP 0001 is Active - http://git.io/jDQSxA https://github.com/genjix/bips/commit/0455253e4e74b85d21e461c528521acfc26c4247
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665 2012-01-27 19:53:30 <gmaxwell> I need faster ECDSA code darnit. down to 5.5 minutes to sync 0-140,000 but going all the way to current takes almost another 15 minutes.
666 2012-01-27 19:54:11 userlkj has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
667 2012-01-27 19:55:04 <gmaxwell> s/15/25/
668 2012-01-27 19:55:09 <Joric> i wonder what does vanitygen use
669 2012-01-27 19:55:18 <gmaxwell> Joric: gpu code!
670 2012-01-27 19:55:51 <gmaxwell> but it takes something like three of those point multiplies to validate where generating a public key only takes one.
671 2012-01-27 19:56:10 <Joric> it has to perform ecdsa every time
672 2012-01-27 19:56:37 <Joric> maybe he optimized it somehow made it incremental i didn't see the code
673 2012-01-27 19:56:44 <gmaxwell> No it doesn't.
674 2012-01-27 19:57:06 <gmaxwell> It does a single point multiply to generate the public key, but it doesn't have to do a validation, which is harder.
675 2012-01-27 19:57:25 <gmaxwell> oh thats right and the point multiplies are cheaper because they do incremental updates. :(
676 2012-01-27 19:57:28 <gmaxwell> darn.
677 2012-01-27 20:02:20 traviscj has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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679 2012-01-27 20:07:21 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: what are you optimizing?
680 2012-01-27 20:07:48 userlkj has joined
681 2012-01-27 20:07:57 <forrestv> gmaxwell, i remember something about bulk-ecdsa validations that could give a result for whether a list of signatures were valid
682 2012-01-27 20:08:51 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: ... or:  are you optimizing user experience?  You could just assume validation will succeed, throw the work into a buffer, and run a thread to validate at leisure (and do... something... if the thread finds out something does NOT validate)
683 2012-01-27 20:09:20 <gmaxwell> forrestv: yes, the ed25519 software does that.. its only a very modest speedup.
684 2012-01-27 20:09:32 <gmaxwell> (well, 2x while doing 64 validations at once)
685 2012-01-27 20:10:19 Joric has quit ()
686 2012-01-27 20:10:43 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: dorking around with some of the fetching logic. But this is all running on effectively ramdisk. User expirence on normal setups is still IO bound. I'm hoping matt's block validation reorg will make batch writes more reasonsable.
687 2012-01-27 20:12:29 <forrestv> ah
688 2012-01-27 20:12:36 <forrestv> didn't know it was actually in use :P
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699 2012-01-27 20:41:21 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: re:<gavinandresen> Too ugly to assume that the last item in the scriptSig is/isn't a script if it unserializable; that seems like a good way for an attacker to make a blockchain split
700 2012-01-27 20:41:36 <BlueMatt> meh, its so easy for an attacker to make a chain split when you add p2sh anyway...
701 2012-01-27 20:42:03 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: No, I mean a chain split after 100% of the network supports p2sh
702 2012-01-27 20:42:22 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: ... if there was ever an implementation that did NOT do the ugly hack, it could get split off
703 2012-01-27 20:42:32 <BlueMatt> well then make the hack part of the spec ;)
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705 2012-01-27 20:42:44 <BlueMatt> its already ugly
706 2012-01-27 20:42:55 <BlueMatt> you have to look up prevouts
707 2012-01-27 20:43:03 <BlueMatt> (which clients cant do and just looks ugly to me)
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710 2012-01-27 20:43:54 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: then you have weird crap like having to sniff for things which looklight checksigs in things which are not.
711 2012-01-27 20:43:58 <gavinandresen> okey doke.  I think it is ugly you can create a block right now that has zero sigops but takes a ton of sigops to validate....
712 2012-01-27 20:44:09 <gavinandresen> (that COUNTS as zero sigops....)
713 2012-01-27 20:44:39 <BlueMatt> though I see the point, they were already counted so I kinda disagree with that...
714 2012-01-27 20:45:03 <gavinandresen> Counted in previous blocks, yes, where they shouldn't have been because those previous blocks didn't have to do the validation.
715 2012-01-27 20:45:41 <BlueMatt> true...
716 2012-01-27 20:45:52 <gavinandresen> In other words: counting sigops in the outputs is broken.  A patient attacker can plant lots of very expensive transactions in lots of previous blocks and then combine them all into one killer block
717 2012-01-27 20:45:56 <CIA-97> bitcoin: various namecoin_mmm * r8f3f29..ffb5ff bitcoind-personal/ (9 files in 3 dirs): (16 commits) http://tinyurl.com/84zt6e5
718 2012-01-27 20:46:00 <BlueMatt> but then clients have yet another check that full nodes do that clients cant do
719 2012-01-27 20:46:31 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: if clients aren't fetching inputs and validating transactions then they have no reason to care about sigop count
720 2012-01-27 20:46:49 <gavinandresen> ... if they are, then they can count....
721 2012-01-27 20:48:02 <BlueMatt> meh, sigop count is also a network block-verification rule, not just a dos prevention (though the reason for the rule is dos prevention)
722 2012-01-27 20:49:39 <BlueMatt> meh, I guess its fine...I was just hoping there was an easier way to check sigops without needing inputs...
723 2012-01-27 20:49:47 <BlueMatt> no way to do it that is much better
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726 2012-01-27 20:55:55 * diki prefers C, but one day he will NEED to use C++...
727 2012-01-27 20:56:10 <diki> damn, the maps,templates,vectors,static/dynamic_cast
728 2012-01-27 20:56:36 <diki> namespaces, all that nonsense
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733 2012-01-27 21:05:52 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r230cdc71bf7e eloipool/eloipool.py: Bugfix: Skip coinbaser if CoinbaserCmd is None http://tinyurl.com/7wuj6ly
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745 2012-01-27 21:25:50 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r574ed88c8aaa eloipool/interactivemode.py: interactivemode: Add exit() function to SIGTERM the entire process http://tinyurl.com/7uoy7c3
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757 2012-01-27 22:23:13 chaligo has joined
758 2012-01-27 22:23:14 <chaligo> sup bros
759 2012-01-27 22:24:24 iocor has joined
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761 2012-01-27 22:25:44 <BlueMatt> bros?
762 2012-01-27 22:26:43 <amiller> hey bra
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764 2012-01-27 22:29:06 <DrHaribo> How do I get the bitcoind 0.5.2 sources? The git repo doesn't seem to have a 0.5.2 tag?
765 2012-01-27 22:29:23 diki has joined
766 2012-01-27 22:29:27 <gmaxwell> DrHaribo: 0.5.2 is in the stable repo maintained by luke, not the main repo.
767 2012-01-27 22:29:53 <BlueMatt> we really need to put that in the topic or something...
768 2012-01-27 22:30:07 <DrHaribo> gmaxwell: Thank you
769 2012-01-27 22:30:22 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: on the github page perhaps.
770 2012-01-27 22:30:37 <diki> how many blocks are there including the ones from split chains?
771 2012-01-27 22:30:46 <BlueMatt> sipa: want to do that?
772 2012-01-27 22:40:13 datagutt has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
773 2012-01-27 22:40:39 * luke-jr wonders if it would make sense to mirror the stable branches in github/bitcoin/bitcoin
774 2012-01-27 22:40:54 <luke-jr> (and tags ofc)
775 2012-01-27 22:40:58 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr checkhashverify * r78ef2cd15653 bitcoind-personal/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'checkhashverify_backport' into checkhashverify http://tinyurl.com/7wbjehg
776 2012-01-27 22:40:59 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr checkhashverify * r09ff1903b999 bitcoind-personal/src/ (script.cpp test/rpc_tests.cpp test/script_P2SH_tests.cpp): Support for receiving and redeeming BIP 17 transactions http://tinyurl.com/8a28ndk
777 2012-01-27 22:41:29 <BlueMatt> probably
778 2012-01-27 22:41:56 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
779 2012-01-27 22:42:02 <luke-jr> I'm sure Gavin will say no to me doing it, and no to him doing it… maybe he can OK sipa doing it :P
780 2012-01-27 22:42:21 <BlueMatt> I dont see why anyone would complain adding another repo to github/bitcoin
781 2012-01-27 22:42:30 <BlueMatt> github/bitcoin/stable-releases or smth
782 2012-01-27 22:42:43 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: why another repo? git supports multiple branches :p
783 2012-01-27 22:42:55 <luke-jr> unless another repo would let me have access w/o affective the main one
784 2012-01-27 22:43:05 <luke-jr> but IIRC github won't let you have multiple clones of the same repo under the same user :/
785 2012-01-27 22:43:07 <BlueMatt> thats the point
786 2012-01-27 22:43:21 <BlueMatt> you cant mark it as a clone, but that doesnt mean you cant have the same content
787 2012-01-27 22:44:10 <luke-jr> dunno, I suspect people would still ask
788 2012-01-27 22:44:35 <luke-jr> point of mirroring to github in the first place is so they can see/get the tags from the repo they already pull from IMO
789 2012-01-27 22:45:33 <DrHaribo> A stable branch sounds nice
790 2012-01-27 22:45:49 <BlueMatt> there is one
791 2012-01-27 22:45:51 <BlueMatt> well multiple
792 2012-01-27 22:47:13 <DrHaribo> bitcoin.org front page links to https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin which has no stable branch with a v0.5.2
793 2012-01-27 22:47:28 <BlueMatt> its in another place
794 2012-01-27 22:47:30 <BlueMatt> gitorious
795 2012-01-27 22:47:58 <DrHaribo> Yeah I know that now... I would have found it more intuitive if it was just a branch at the mentioned URL, but no big deal
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803 2012-01-27 23:10:54 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas debug * r761ff5e6d1cc cgminer/ (adl.c main.c miner.h util.c): Merge branch 'master' into debug http://tinyurl.com/6vnvx4l
804 2012-01-27 23:10:55 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas debug * r37e5ca8cd8e6 cgminer/adl.c: For unique entries. http://tinyurl.com/6st73te
805 2012-01-27 23:10:56 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas debug * rbed75ac25715 cgminer/adl.c: Debug device output. http://tinyurl.com/7jo4mrd
806 2012-01-27 23:11:00 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas reorder * r5a0b4f62d096 cgminer/ (adl.c adl.h miner.h): Map GPU devices to virtual devices in their true physical order based on BusNumber. http://tinyurl.com/7aoyr87
807 2012-01-27 23:11:04 <CIA-97> bitcoin: various luke * r7db294..e5e1ec cgminer/ (util.c main.c): (5 commits) http://tinyurl.com/7ueqvnh
808 2012-01-27 23:11:06 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas reorder * r371e5f688a2b cgminer/ (adl.c adl.h main.c): Reorder displayed devices to map to physical locations and initialise according to logical location instead. http://tinyurl.com/7my6xgx
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