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17 2012-01-28 00:35:56 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas reorder * r3bc0583454b0 cgminer/adl.c: Iterate and change virtual device order instead of shuffling ram. http://tinyurl.com/7zxcuop
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24 2012-01-28 00:45:52 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas reorder * r059701272c75 cgminer/adl.c: Carry virtual gpu number across. http://tinyurl.com/6tobx77
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42 2012-01-28 01:35:52 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas reorder * r4bf01f012f2f cgminer/adl.c: Fix potential overflow. http://tinyurl.com/7gpvqcv
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53 2012-01-28 02:00:56 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r45e0ef71e645 eloipool/ (bitcoin/node.py eloipool.py): Use JSON-RPC getmemorypool to submit blocks to upstream bitcoind http://tinyurl.com/7vfd855
54 2012-01-28 02:00:57 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * re685a83f3832 eloipool/jsonrpcserver.py: Warn at startup if midstate Python module is missing http://tinyurl.com/7vtz37l
55 2012-01-28 02:00:58 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * rdef9c32a231c eloipool/README: Document optional midstate dependency http://tinyurl.com/77m8xw8
56 2012-01-28 02:01:00 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r1ba59e844a2e eloipool/bitcoin/node.py: Slap an ugly warning on bitcoin.node that it doesn't work reliably on mainnet http://tinyurl.com/6oqqz6a
57 2012-01-28 02:10:47 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r91470cd238d5 eloipool/merklemaker.py: Warn when coinbase data overflows (max once every 5 minutes) http://tinyurl.com/7qsgwfo
58 2012-01-28 02:10:51 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * redb805e8f388 eloipool/merklemaker.py: merkleMaker: Add isOverflowed attribute for checking even during 5 minute window http://tinyurl.com/7rrbd4r
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84 2012-01-28 03:45:55 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r0da7320f102b eloipool/jsonrpcserver.py: Handle some invalid garbage on JSONRPC sockets more gracefully http://tinyurl.com/876nybs
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112 2012-01-28 04:39:41 <splatster> Is it at all reasonable for Bitcointalk to get Yubikey support?
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115 2012-01-28 04:41:40 <theymos> OpenID will probably be supported eventually, which will allow you to use Yubikey to authenticate.
116 2012-01-28 04:41:56 <splatster> Ah ok
117 2012-01-28 04:42:00 hexTech has joined
118 2012-01-28 04:42:49 <splatster> Still haven't decided on wether you are going to split the new forum into sub-tasks?
119 2012-01-28 04:42:56 <splatster> I would be glad to get involved
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121 2012-01-28 04:44:31 <theymos> At the end of January (the deadline for bids) I'm going to review alll bids for the entire project and see if any of them are acceptable. If not, I will split the job into sub-tasks.
122 2012-01-28 04:44:59 <splatster> 4 days left
123 2012-01-28 04:46:51 <luke-jr> theymos: how about reorganizing it nicely? :P
124 2012-01-28 04:47:04 <theymos> What do you mean?
125 2012-01-28 04:47:05 <luke-jr> theymos: ie, a subforum for each development project, pool, etc
126 2012-01-28 04:47:09 <luke-jr> theymos: like Bitcoin Scene has
127 2012-01-28 04:47:32 <k9quaint> one big forum, no captcha, no moderators
128 2012-01-28 04:47:54 <luke-jr> theymos: so people don't feel like they have to make one 592835923 page long thread about cgminer and eligius
129 2012-01-28 04:48:04 <luke-jr> theymos: and I can moderate the trolls in my subforum, etc
130 2012-01-28 04:49:34 <splatster> luke-jr: sounds nice
131 2012-01-28 04:51:11 <splatster> the 50 page long threads get really annoying really fast
132 2012-01-28 04:51:56 <splatster> you could give casascius his own subform and all the pool ops their own and the websites their own and it would be nice and organized
133 2012-01-28 04:52:25 <theymos> luke-jr: Well, that could even be done with the current software. I'm not sure whether strictly hierarchical organization will work well, though. Maybe tags would be better.
134 2012-01-28 04:52:51 <luke-jr> theymos: maybe.
135 2012-01-28 04:53:41 <luke-jr> but how often does a discussion span multiple topics? if they do, they should be separate threads :P
136 2012-01-28 04:58:36 <theymos> Where things should be categorized is often subjective, which makes dealing with categorization annoying for readers (and moderators). Often things could belong in several categories, though they can only actually exist in one.
137 2012-01-28 04:58:43 <Joric> theymos, have you seen http://ogrr.com ? they implemented 'feedback transfers' i got 1 btc from them, spent it already
138 2012-01-28 04:59:24 <theymos> What's feedback transfers?
139 2012-01-28 05:00:24 sacredchao has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
140 2012-01-28 05:01:31 <Joric> you may fund someone's account using forum interface
141 2012-01-28 05:02:40 sacredchao has joined
142 2012-01-28 05:02:42 <Joric> withdrawals are not automated though looks like admin checks them himself )
143 2012-01-28 05:02:55 <theymos> Ah. That makes sense if the forum is already doing something with the money, though it seems no better than just publishing a donation address otherwise.
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149 2012-01-28 05:13:00 <shazooun> ok
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151 2012-01-28 05:15:26 <krysits> donate 4 midI file recovery [mode]
152 2012-01-28 05:16:24 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r5af40de97ce6 cgminer/ADL_SDK/readme.txt: Update ADL SDK URL. http://tinyurl.com/7vy7abh
153 2012-01-28 05:16:29 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas reorder * rf05e298e9bb8 cgminer/ADL_SDK/readme.txt: Update ADL SDK URL. http://tinyurl.com/7x95peo
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159 2012-01-28 05:26:23 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas reorder * r075ff6bf7a35 cgminer/bitforce.c: Merge branch 'master' into reorder http://tinyurl.com/7q5oxly
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163 2012-01-28 05:45:54 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas reorder * r310f55d0c95c cgminer/ocl.c: Merge branch 'master' into reorder http://tinyurl.com/6wwu6hp
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168 2012-01-28 06:25:55 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas reorder * r9566a9337265 cgminer/ocl.c: Merge branch 'master' into reorder http://tinyurl.com/7y2vedg
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178 2012-01-28 07:06:42 <shazooun> http://www.cs.rice.edu/Conferences/IPTPS02/107.pdf
179 2012-01-28 07:06:50 <shazooun> Mnemosyne: Peer-to-Peer Steganographic Storage
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181 2012-01-28 07:09:14 BTC_Bear is now known as BTC_Bear|hbrntng
182 2012-01-28 07:09:50 * gmaxwell searches bitcoin
183 2012-01-28 07:09:58 * gmaxwell thanks heaven for no hits
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188 2012-01-28 07:27:29 <Joric> gmaxwell, neat idea!
189 2012-01-28 07:27:32 <Joric> thank you
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191 2012-01-28 07:28:28 <gmaxwell> Joric: what.. combine the most inefficient storage system ever created with the second most inefficient?
192 2012-01-28 07:29:04 <Joric> don't try to convince me, i made my choice :D
193 2012-01-28 07:29:23 krysits has joined
194 2012-01-28 07:30:26 <Joric> did anyone see charts like size of the blockchain to time ?
195 2012-01-28 07:30:53 <gmaxwell> I now understand why the concept of hell was invented. At some point you get tired of telling people why this or that is a terrible ideaâ and you just give up and tell them they'll be tortured forever if they do it. simplifies things greatly.
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197 2012-01-28 07:32:23 <Joric> i just checked, june 2011 is somewhere in the first third of the blockchain
198 2012-01-28 07:33:00 <Joric> it grows expo-somehow-nentially
199 2012-01-28 07:33:01 <gmaxwell> Joric: third measured how?
200 2012-01-28 07:34:00 <Joric> i'm writting blockchain reader in c, just checked for the first occurency of my vanity address it's on 33%
201 2012-01-28 07:35:37 <Joric> didn't get to the merkle tree yet
202 2012-01-28 07:36:02 <Joric> *occurence
203 2012-01-28 07:36:11 <Joric> *rr
204 2012-01-28 07:36:44 <Joric> i may check for the timestamp as well
205 2012-01-28 07:43:52 <shazooun> limepime
206 2012-01-28 07:47:03 <Joric> here http://pastebin.com/G4BjpQYY
207 2012-01-28 07:47:43 <Joric> oh, i remember there is google charts
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212 2012-01-28 08:03:39 <Joric> something like this http://goo.gl/RT1eB
213 2012-01-28 08:04:50 <Joric> oops wrong axis let me fix that
214 2012-01-28 08:07:46 <Joric> http://goo.gl/kAYPK that's better
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221 2012-01-28 08:39:35 <Joric> wow didn't know google has this http://code.google.com/apis/ajax/playground/?type=visualization
222 2012-01-28 08:39:55 <Joric> even candlesticks
223 2012-01-28 08:40:41 <Joric> though candlesticks are way more primitive than annotated timeline
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227 2012-01-28 08:44:16 <CIA-97> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r153db88 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Added two names to the bfi_int whitelist, improved bad url detection (+5 more commits...) - http://git.io/AQhO3A https://github.com/Diablo-D3/DiabloMiner/commit/153db88b210a458d54a76e2f216e9d72dda330e2
228 2012-01-28 08:45:27 <Joric> hehe extrapolation http://goo.gl/80CSr
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236 2012-01-28 09:10:14 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr master * r2bc4fd6 / (12 files in 4 dirs): Bitcoin-Qt signmessage GUI (pull request #582) - http://git.io/jxNShw https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/2bc4fd609ca00d5a5cb0b6b3eba5f35cb334b967
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248 2012-01-28 09:38:27 <Joric> anyway, this chart is pretty much accurate http://goo.gl/9XmgB
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253 2012-01-28 09:45:22 <Joric> in june 2011 it was 400 mb, now it's 900
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262 2012-01-28 09:58:08 <Diablo-D3> https://code.google.com/p/cityhash/
263 2012-01-28 09:58:16 <Diablo-D3> fuck, another murmur competitor?
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318 2012-01-28 13:58:12 <lfm> theres a bunch of new coinbase txn that are losing their fees
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332 2012-01-28 14:48:01 <lfm> is there a new pool started jan 18 or 19?
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334 2012-01-28 14:53:47 <onelineproof> is the bitcoin 0.5.2 source now included in the binary release instead of it's own source release?
335 2012-01-28 14:54:51 user_ has joined
336 2012-01-28 14:56:39 <Joric> last time i checked source was here
337 2012-01-28 14:57:01 <onelineproof> ya it is, but thought maybe there would be a source only release
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349 2012-01-28 15:30:56 <CIA-97> bitcoin: p2k * rbc431f9425b8 ecoinpool/apps/ecoinpool/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Support for rollntime http://tinyurl.com/88e38le
350 2012-01-28 15:30:58 <CIA-97> bitcoin: p2k * rf1d1555df264 ecoinpool/apps/ecoinpool/ (10 files in 2 dirs): X-Mining-Extensions submitold midstate http://tinyurl.com/7zucjmw
351 2012-01-28 15:31:42 booo has joined
352 2012-01-28 15:40:56 <CIA-97> bitcoin: p2k * rd29239aeb00c ecoinpool/apps/ecoinpool/src/ecoinpool_rpc.erl: Added cleanup code for connections http://tinyurl.com/84nx3oe
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364 2012-01-28 16:28:35 <roconnor> I don't suppose blockexplorer recognizes compressed keys
365 2012-01-28 16:30:04 Clipse has joined
366 2012-01-28 16:38:45 gavinandresen has joined
367 2012-01-28 16:41:59 <etotheipi_> roconnor, fyi I think most Armory issues are fixed... please help test!
368 2012-01-28 16:42:21 <etotheipi_> (I didn't expect it to take 2 weeks to fix the zero-conf transactions in Armory, but it's done)
369 2012-01-28 16:42:23 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r68649be / src/main.cpp : CreateNewBlock was not adding in transaction fees. - http://git.io/iMRePQ https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/68649bef9395947f3a71e40daae053ca5c0aabca
370 2012-01-28 16:42:54 <gavinandresen> lfm: that's why you saw blocks missing fees in the reward.
371 2012-01-28 16:44:06 * luke-jr wonders if that affected BIP16 backports
372 2012-01-28 16:44:11 <gavinandresen> yes, it does
373 2012-01-28 16:44:20 <gavinandresen> ... fixing those now...
374 2012-01-28 16:44:30 <Joric> gavinandresen, what do you think about the blockchain rally http://goo.gl/9XmgB
375 2012-01-28 16:44:46 <gavinandresen> ask me later, busy right now
376 2012-01-28 16:44:52 <Joric> could you extrapolate it to 2013-2014
377 2012-01-28 16:46:09 _Fireball has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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380 2012-01-28 16:58:40 <etotheipi_> hey Joric, you wannt help test Armory? I'll send you another BTC to play with, as another donation :)
381 2012-01-28 16:58:54 <etotheipi_> (which you get to keep if Armory doesn't lose it :))
382 2012-01-28 17:01:03 <Joric> etotheipi_, new version?
383 2012-01-28 17:01:23 <etotheipi_> yup, finally resolved all the stupid memory-pool issues
384 2012-01-28 17:01:30 <splatster> etotheipi_: I would love to test Armory, but no OS X binary :(
385 2012-01-28 17:01:33 <Joric> github?
386 2012-01-28 17:01:41 <etotheipi_> I'm *finally* ready to think about alpha
387 2012-01-28 17:01:49 <etotheipi_> splatster, I've got someone looking into that for me
388 2012-01-28 17:02:14 <etotheipi_> unfortunately, I have no OSX system to test it on
389 2012-01-28 17:02:19 <splatster> I do!
390 2012-01-28 17:02:38 <etotheipi_> splatster, I meant: I probably need to do some work getting it to compile
391 2012-01-28 17:03:10 <Joric> i have osx too
392 2012-01-28 17:03:25 <Joric> wrote 12 games for the gayphone
393 2012-01-28 17:03:30 <etotheipi_> haha
394 2012-01-28 17:04:07 <Joric> didn't make a fortune
395 2012-01-28 17:04:36 <Joric> git clone git://github.com/etotheipi/BitcoinArmory.git
396 2012-01-28 17:05:02 <Joric> win7, i managed to launch it earlier, let me try
397 2012-01-28 17:05:19 <etotheipi_> Joric, make sure you switch to the qtdev branch
398 2012-01-28 17:05:41 <Joric> git checkout qtdev
399 2012-01-28 17:05:44 <etotheipi_> yup
400 2012-01-28 17:06:09 <etotheipi_> splatster, do you want to try to compile it?
401 2012-01-28 17:06:22 <splatster> I can give it a shot
402 2012-01-28 17:06:26 <etotheipi_> I do not expect anyone else to deal with it right now, but I'll send you 2 BTC if you succeed :)
403 2012-01-28 17:06:34 <splatster> ok cool
404 2012-01-28 17:07:08 <splatster> downloading repo
405 2012-01-28 17:07:38 <etotheipi_> (of course, you have to tell me what you did to get it to compile, though ;))
406 2012-01-28 17:08:13 <splatster> No, I thought I was going to compile it, show you a screenshot, and delete everything.
407 2012-01-28 17:08:41 <etotheipi_> splatster, that only gets you 1.5 BTC
408 2012-01-28 17:08:51 <Joric> preventive carpetbombing 1JoricCBkW8C5m7QUZMwoRz9rBCM6ZSy96
409 2012-01-28 17:11:55 <edcba> ;;bc,mtgox
410 2012-01-28 17:11:55 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":5.74815,"low":5.23,"avg":5.478405447,"vwap":5.489213974,"vol":95030,"last_all":5.55008,"last_local":5.55008,"last":5.55008,"buy":5.55011,"sell":5.61668}}
411 2012-01-28 17:12:28 <splatster> I am running MacPorts to download the dependencies
412 2012-01-28 17:16:04 occulta has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
413 2012-01-28 17:16:16 <Joric> hmm
414 2012-01-28 17:16:17 <etotheipi_> I don't know what that is, but it sounds cool
415 2012-01-28 17:16:44 <etotheipi_> I'll start taking notes :)
416 2012-01-28 17:16:51 <Joric> i forgot where i should get CppBlockUtils.py and _CppBlockUtils.pyd
417 2012-01-28 17:16:53 MrTiggr has joined
418 2012-01-28 17:16:54 occulta has joined
419 2012-01-28 17:17:11 <etotheipi_> cd into cppBlockUtils and "make swig"
420 2012-01-28 17:17:22 Kolky has joined
421 2012-01-28 17:17:24 <etotheipi_> (you're in linux, right?)
422 2012-01-28 17:17:29 <Joric> win7
423 2012-01-28 17:17:38 p0s has joined
424 2012-01-28 17:18:23 <Joric> trying to rebuild maybe wrong deps
425 2012-01-28 17:18:36 <Joric> shitload of warnings but compiled okay
426 2012-01-28 17:18:49 <etotheipi_> okay, since you're in Windows, you need to copy in the swigwin-2.0.4 folder
427 2012-01-28 17:18:52 <Joric> aha got it
428 2012-01-28 17:19:05 <Joric> error code from "Performing Pre-Build Event..."
429 2012-01-28 17:19:19 <etotheipi_> yeah, you're missing swig, I believe
430 2012-01-28 17:19:40 <etotheipi_> I wish I could distribute it for this purpose, but I'm pretty sure the license won't allow me
431 2012-01-28 17:19:42 <Joric> swigwin-2.0.4\swig.exe
432 2012-01-28 17:19:51 <Joric> should have this aswell
433 2012-01-28 17:20:59 <etotheipi_> Joric, double-check this: http://bitcoinarmory.com/index.php/building-armory-from-source
434 2012-01-28 17:21:23 <etotheipi_> but if you've run it before, you should be mostly setup... you just need swigwin-2.0.4 in your cppForSwig dir
435 2012-01-28 17:21:37 <Joric> yep
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437 2012-01-28 17:23:23 <splatster> etotheipi_: It's being fussy cuz I'm running xcode 4.3 which doesn't have certain things like make preinstalled
438 2012-01-28 17:23:41 <etotheipi_> splatster, hmm... I wish I knew *anything* about osx
439 2012-01-28 17:23:53 <etotheipi_> that's why I'm paying people to help me with it
440 2012-01-28 17:24:22 <etotheipi_> what *do* you have ?
441 2012-01-28 17:24:47 <splatster> My only option would be to downgrade xcode which would make many of my projects unusable
442 2012-01-28 17:25:04 <etotheipi_> yeah, don't do that...
443 2012-01-28 17:27:58 <Joric> it's alive!
444 2012-01-28 17:28:01 <Joric> starting
445 2012-01-28 17:28:36 <Joric> win7 + msvc 2008 express + python 2.7
446 2012-01-28 17:31:42 _Fireball has joined
447 2012-01-28 17:31:59 <Joric> etotheipi_, http://goo.gl/9XmgB looks like in 2012 you won't be able to load it into ram )
448 2012-01-28 17:32:13 <etotheipi_> haha, Joric I know
449 2012-01-28 17:32:25 <etotheipi_> my first priority after alpha is non-full-RAM
450 2012-01-28 17:32:45 <Joric> if it continues - blockchain will be 12 gb in 2012 and 160 gb in 2013 )
451 2012-01-28 17:33:16 <splatster> Maybe it's time for a new genesis block?
452 2012-01-28 17:33:31 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
453 2012-01-28 17:34:45 marf_away has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
454 2012-01-28 17:35:17 <Joric> what does it mean - Syncing 215uHkFHq ? )
455 2012-01-28 17:35:38 <Joric> must be the random wallet
456 2012-01-28 17:35:48 <etotheipi_> 215uHkFHq is the unique wallet ID
457 2012-01-28 17:36:06 <etotheipi_> it loads thew wallet, but then has to "sync" with the blockchain to find all the transactions
458 2012-01-28 17:37:50 <Joric> i wrote cpp loader for the blockchain, takes maybe 10 seconds to load it completely into the ram, didn't try indexing though )
459 2012-01-28 17:37:51 <etotheipi_> the issue is that I can't trust the user to create unique IDs/Names
460 2012-01-28 17:38:46 <etotheipi_> btw, I started this project in mid 2011... the blockchain was half the size at the time
461 2012-01-28 17:38:55 <etotheipi_> I didn't expect it would be so large by the time I got to the first release
462 2012-01-28 17:39:45 _Fireball has quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Chicks dig it)
463 2012-01-28 17:41:19 <Joric> okay it's compiled and loaded what's next
464 2012-01-28 17:41:28 <etotheipi_> are you running on the mainnet?
465 2012-01-28 17:41:41 <Joric> yes i suppose
466 2012-01-28 17:42:00 <etotheipi_> (you are if you you didn't use --testnet)
467 2012-01-28 17:42:06 b4epoche has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
468 2012-01-28 17:42:15 <Joric> mainnet then
469 2012-01-28 17:42:33 b4epoche has joined
470 2012-01-28 17:42:50 <etotheipi_> okay, generate an address and I'll send you a BTC
471 2012-01-28 17:43:33 <etotheipi_> it sounds like you already have a wallet
472 2012-01-28 17:44:03 traviscj has joined
473 2012-01-28 17:44:09 <etotheipi_> you can create a couple wallets, juggle money, sweep addresses, import vanitygen keys
474 2012-01-28 17:44:11 <Joric> i have a wallet, do you want me to generate a new address using armory?
475 2012-01-28 17:44:16 <etotheipi_> Joric, yes
476 2012-01-28 17:45:39 d1scordian has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
477 2012-01-28 17:45:47 d1scordian has joined
478 2012-01-28 17:45:58 <Joric> 1 sec )
479 2012-01-28 17:46:12 <etotheipi_> if you're feeling ambitious, and unsure whether you want to actually use offlien-wallets: see the section "I'm Scared" here: http://bitcoinarmory.com/index.php/using-offline-wallets-in-armory
480 2012-01-28 17:46:12 <Joric> i'm trying to screenshot it
481 2012-01-28 17:47:32 <Joric> that's how it looks http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/2783/screenshot2012012823403.jpg
482 2012-01-28 17:48:01 <etotheipi_> perfect, now just click on "Receive Bitcoins"
483 2012-01-28 17:48:03 <splatster> etotheipi_: I don't know if you have this, but you should allow the of paper wallets of which the keys are generated and immediately deleted after printing
484 2012-01-28 17:48:21 <splatster> allow the creation of*
485 2012-01-28 17:48:24 <etotheipi_> splatster, that pretty much exists
486 2012-01-28 17:48:39 <Joric> 1K7CVesRXGkwAbNKsKzWzCH12Kp7u64MJA
487 2012-01-28 17:48:41 <etotheipi_> oh, no it doesnt... whne you go to "delete" a wallet, it asks if you want to make a pepr backup before deleting
488 2012-01-28 17:49:07 <splatster> oh that's cool
489 2012-01-28 17:49:08 <etotheipi_> splatster, but there is no way, currently, to avoid having the wallet saved
490 2012-01-28 17:49:22 <etotheipi_> you could do it on an offline computer
491 2012-01-28 17:49:27 <splatster> but if you run it off a live CD then your set
492 2012-01-28 17:49:31 chmod755 has joined
493 2012-01-28 17:49:54 <Joric> http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/3893/screenshot2012012823431.jpg
494 2012-01-28 17:50:07 <etotheipi_> splatster... in the future I want to figure out, better, "ethereal" wallets
495 2012-01-28 17:50:26 <etotheipi_> kind of as you suggest.... you can plug in the paper-wallet code, and it will open it to be managed, without touchign the disk
496 2012-01-28 17:50:28 <Joric> the address is 1K7CVesRXGkwAbNKsKzWzCH12Kp7u64MJA
497 2012-01-28 17:51:27 <splatster> Make an ArmoryOS LiveCD
498 2012-01-28 17:51:50 <etotheipi_> splatster, what i've really focused on is the offline wallets
499 2012-01-28 17:52:03 <etotheipi_> I picked up a super cheap laptop with 512 MB of RAM, someone gave it to me for free at my work
500 2012-01-28 17:52:10 <etotheipi_> disabled the wifi
501 2012-01-28 17:52:23 <etotheipi_> then generated the wallet there... (printed via USB cable to printer)
502 2012-01-28 17:52:26 <Joric> etotheipi_, did you send anything? what else i can do
503 2012-01-28 17:52:31 <etotheipi_> Joric, I just sent 1 BTC
504 2012-01-28 17:52:41 <Joric> cool
505 2012-01-28 17:52:59 <Joric> now i wait!
506 2012-01-28 17:53:02 <etotheipi_> Joric, try creating a couple wallets, creating/changing encryption passphrases
507 2012-01-28 17:53:11 <etotheipi_> moving money between wallets
508 2012-01-28 17:53:12 <Joric> okay
509 2012-01-28 17:53:15 <etotheipi_> sweeping private keys
510 2012-01-28 17:53:21 <etotheipi_> generate a vanitygen address, import it
511 2012-01-28 17:53:35 <etotheipi_> look at transaction properties (double click on the tx), or change comments
512 2012-01-28 17:53:46 <etotheipi_> these are all things I tested long ago, but may have broken since then
513 2012-01-28 17:54:10 booo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
514 2012-01-28 17:54:19 <roconnor> etotheipi_: what is the commit of the version of Armory you want me to run.
515 2012-01-28 17:54:49 <etotheipi_> roconnor, 3914efd4e5f
516 2012-01-28 17:54:53 <Joric> saved private keys, just in case )
517 2012-01-28 17:54:55 <etotheipi_> it should be the latest commit to qtdev
518 2012-01-28 17:55:06 <roconnor> etotheipi_: btw, I've started getting hashlib fixed in nix; however I think you are right to run the C++ code instead for ripemd160 since there is no guarentee that it will be in hashlib.
519 2012-01-28 17:55:15 <Joric> it stutters a bit i have only 2 gb ram on this box
520 2012-01-28 17:55:18 <etotheipi_> roconnor, yeah, you helped me realize that
521 2012-01-28 17:55:42 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
522 2012-01-28 17:55:49 <etotheipi_> Joric, that doesn't surprise me... however i found that it DOES work in linux under those conditions since the OS uses less RAM than windows
523 2012-01-28 17:55:57 <etotheipi_> but you can't run much else
524 2012-01-28 17:56:15 <etotheipi_> as I said, first priority is bringing the RAM req't down to "normal"
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526 2012-01-28 17:57:15 <TuxBlackEdo> "print paper backup"
527 2012-01-28 17:57:32 <TuxBlackEdo> thats a pretty neat feature
528 2012-01-28 17:57:44 <TuxBlackEdo> that like the average person could use
529 2012-01-28 17:58:10 <etotheipi_> ...and I'm hoping the average user can re-import the paper backup, too :)
530 2012-01-28 17:58:49 <splatster> etotheipi_: I can try compiling and debugging armory on a vm
531 2012-01-28 17:58:53 nonverba has joined
532 2012-01-28 17:58:58 <TuxBlackEdo> what a sweet client
533 2012-01-28 17:58:59 <Joric> etotheipi_, i got 1 btc
534 2012-01-28 17:59:17 <nonverba> if someone here knows getwork well there's BTC in it for you to help me get my script running :D
535 2012-01-28 17:59:26 <nonverba> takers?
536 2012-01-28 17:59:29 <splatster> etotheipi_: what kind of ram/cpu does it require and does it still need the satoshi client to run?
537 2012-01-28 17:59:31 <etotheipi_> splatster, don't go to too much trouble...
538 2012-01-28 17:59:59 <etotheipi_> splatster, at the moment, since it loads the whole blockchain, more than 2GB is preferred unless you're not running anything else
539 2012-01-28 18:00:03 <splatster> It would be an ubuntu VM, I can't do anything until apple fixes up xcode
540 2012-01-28 18:00:12 <etotheipi_> (not *preferred*, probably required)
541 2012-01-28 18:01:29 <etotheipi_> splatster, perhaps it would be possible, if I can ever find an OSX machine, to figure it out myself and pre-compile OSX binaries/packages...?
542 2012-01-28 18:02:00 <etotheipi_> I won't be able to get to it right away, but I *will* do it
543 2012-01-28 18:02:08 <Joric> i was thinking about the same in the reference client but updating patches to the current version is a pita
544 2012-01-28 18:02:14 <TuxBlackEdo> bitcoin devs really need to take the AOL approach: someone needs to make a company that gets people to use bitcoins in the same easy way that AOL used to get people on the internet
545 2012-01-28 18:02:28 <etotheipi_> 1000 free hours!
546 2012-01-28 18:02:32 <TuxBlackEdo> hehe
547 2012-01-28 18:02:40 <etotheipi_> 1000 free Satoshis!
548 2012-01-28 18:02:43 <TuxBlackEdo> without AOL there wouldn't be half as many internet users today (don't quote me on that)
549 2012-01-28 18:03:00 <TuxBlackEdo> don't even know how true that is actually
550 2012-01-28 18:03:27 <nonverba> if anyone wants to help with a script, there is some bounty in it... 2BTC for not a lot of time, just a little modification help
551 2012-01-28 18:03:46 <splatster> nonverba: what's needed?
552 2012-01-28 18:03:48 <Joric> etotheipi_, how does it work? why do you need satoshi's client?
553 2012-01-28 18:03:56 XX01XX has joined
554 2012-01-28 18:05:00 <nonverba> i'm adapting a tcl script to submit work, i need to make sure it's sending in the right format, currently it's getting all rejects
555 2012-01-28 18:05:11 <etotheipi_> Joric, it's because I didn't want to try reimplementing a full-verification node
556 2012-01-28 18:05:14 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
557 2012-01-28 18:05:21 <etotheipi_> the networking is a pain in the ass to implement
558 2012-01-28 18:05:31 <etotheipi_> I will probably do it eventually, but I'll never get it "right"
559 2012-01-28 18:05:58 <roconnor> etotheipi_: what does sweep address do?
560 2012-01-28 18:05:59 <etotheipi_> for now, I can handle 100% of the networking by hiding behind the Satoshi client... which will do all the verification, tx/block forwarding, peer rejection, etc
561 2012-01-28 18:06:04 <Joric> etotheipi_, check out the glitches, something wrong with the layout
562 2012-01-28 18:06:06 <Joric> http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/7438/screenshot2012012823591.jpg
563 2012-01-28 18:06:14 traviscj has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
564 2012-01-28 18:06:16 <etotheipi_> roconnor, it moves all money from the addr to another addr
565 2012-01-28 18:06:51 <etotheipi_> Joric, yeah, I still haven't found out a robust way to do the tableview layouts/sizes in PyQt
566 2012-01-28 18:07:36 <etotheipi_> I probably should've designed the layouts on a small screen first...
567 2012-01-28 18:07:39 <Joric> looks like the list's width is fixed
568 2012-01-28 18:08:10 <Joric> the list won't resize at all
569 2012-01-28 18:08:13 <etotheipi_> I'll revisit this table in particular, because it was oneo f the first ones I made, and I definitely could do it right
570 2012-01-28 18:08:19 <etotheipi_> *better
571 2012-01-28 18:08:23 <roconnor> etotheipi_: http://hpaste.org/raw/57116
572 2012-01-28 18:08:30 <roconnor> is the error I get when I try to sweep address
573 2012-01-28 18:08:41 <etotheipi_> is the wallet encrypted?
574 2012-01-28 18:08:41 traviscj has joined
575 2012-01-28 18:08:44 <roconnor> yes
576 2012-01-28 18:08:56 <etotheipi_> did it not ask you to unlock it?
577 2012-01-28 18:09:06 <roconnor> swee address under address information under wallet details
578 2012-01-28 18:09:09 <roconnor> no
579 2012-01-28 18:09:50 <etotheipi_> hmm... I just swept an address from one of my encrypted wallets and it asked for the passphrase
580 2012-01-28 18:10:11 <etotheipi_> are there any other errors printed before that?
581 2012-01-28 18:11:01 <roconnor> nope
582 2012-01-28 18:11:02 <etotheipi_> hehe, I could see how a ripemd160 error would cause that
583 2012-01-28 18:11:13 <roconnor> I still don't have ripemd160
584 2012-01-28 18:11:17 <roconnor> in python
585 2012-01-28 18:11:31 <etotheipi_> roconnor, that's fine... I thought I moved all the calls to the built-in C++ libraries
586 2012-01-28 18:11:53 <Joric> it's in the hashlib, idk why gavin used pycrypto for that
587 2012-01-28 18:12:42 <roconnor> Joric: its only in hashlib if python is built in the presence of openssl
588 2012-01-28 18:13:07 <roconnor> etotheipi_: how do I make a "watch-only" wallet?
589 2012-01-28 18:13:27 <etotheipi_> in the wallet properties, there's a button on the right for "Create Watching-Only Copy"
590 2012-01-28 18:14:59 <etotheipi_> or you can choose "remove/delete" and choose to delete only private keys (converting to watching-only)
591 2012-01-28 18:15:46 <Joric> i just tried paper copy ) oh my this is one big qr code, version 28 or something )
592 2012-01-28 18:15:50 <roconnor> how could I, for instance, turn my satoshi wallet into an armory watch-only wallet?
593 2012-01-28 18:16:17 <etotheipi_> right now, you can't
594 2012-01-28 18:17:00 <etotheipi_> I'm intentionally not implementing conversion utilities... because of issues that will occur when people import addresses into both Satoshi and Armory
595 2012-01-28 18:17:08 <roconnor> okay
596 2012-01-28 18:17:24 <etotheipi_> watching-only might be okay... but I don't have a way to to convert a non-Armory wallet into watching-only Armory
597 2012-01-28 18:18:01 <etotheipi_> Joric, I used the QR code that has 30% error correction
598 2012-01-28 18:18:51 <sipa> etotheipi_: is your determinstic wallet format "fixed" already?
599 2012-01-28 18:19:04 <etotheipi_> all these questions about where things are make me realize I need to implemenet all the menus
600 2012-01-28 18:19:09 <etotheipi_> sipa, what was I fixing?
601 2012-01-28 18:19:17 <etotheipi_> some format thing? or deterministic calculation thing?
602 2012-01-28 18:19:30 <sipa> etotheipi_: not fixed as in repaired, fixed as in not changing anymore :)
603 2012-01-28 18:19:32 <etotheipi_> (sorry, I'm up to my eyeballs debugging quadruply-nested loops)
604 2012-01-28 18:20:02 <etotheipi_> sipa, the wallet format hasn't changed in a while, and I don't plan to
605 2012-01-28 18:20:03 <etotheipi_> http://bitcoinarmory.com/index.php/armory-wallet-files
606 2012-01-28 18:20:07 <sipa> ok
607 2012-01-28 18:20:09 <etotheipi_> but it is documented!
608 2012-01-28 18:20:35 <luke-jr> Armory is deterministic?
609 2012-01-28 18:20:36 <etotheipi_> however, I do need to update BIP 0010, and update the client to handle the updated tx packets for offline tx
610 2012-01-28 18:20:40 onelineproof has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
611 2012-01-28 18:20:44 <etotheipi_> luke-jr, yes
612 2012-01-28 18:20:47 <luke-jr> cool
613 2012-01-28 18:20:50 <sipa> etotheipi_: maybe you were interested in a trick that is used in Ed25519: they use a 256-bit secret, but it is piped through SHA512 to derive two "independent" 256 secrets
614 2012-01-28 18:20:53 <etotheipi_> hence the print-paper-backup
615 2012-01-28 18:21:10 <luke-jr> sipa: any idea: if I delete the private keys in bdb, will bitcoind continue to work so long as I don't spend from it?
616 2012-01-28 18:21:37 <sipa> luke-jr: should work, but it's hard to have control over that, right?
617 2012-01-28 18:21:47 <sipa> luke-jr: i have a removeprivkey patch if you like
618 2012-01-28 18:21:56 <sipa> but it can mess up account balances
619 2012-01-28 18:23:01 <etotheipi_> sipa, what do I do with those two, 256-bit secrets?
620 2012-01-28 18:23:11 <sipa> etotheipi_: EC secret and chain code
621 2012-01-28 18:23:37 <sipa> etotheipi_: it's not like you have 512-bit security anyway :)
622 2012-01-28 18:23:38 <etotheipi_> sipa, the reason for the random chain-code is to avoid someone using a simple private key and then colliding with others using the same private key
623 2012-01-28 18:23:42 marf_away has joined
624 2012-01-28 18:24:03 <roconnor> etotheipi_: I imported an external address with "import only" selected, but the listed balance is incorrectly listed as 0.
625 2012-01-28 18:24:03 <etotheipi_> s/private/root private/g
626 2012-01-28 18:24:18 <etotheipi_> roconnor, actually, close the wallet props, and reopen it
627 2012-01-28 18:24:20 <etotheipi_> that's somethign I have to fix
628 2012-01-28 18:24:32 <sipa> etotheipi_: i don't see the problem you're addressing with that
629 2012-01-28 18:24:50 <sipa> if someone generates the same (root key, chain code), the same problem exists, right?
630 2012-01-28 18:25:10 <luke-jr> sipa: well, I don't want to mess with listtxns
631 2012-01-28 18:25:14 <sipa> so you're hoping that because you have more input bits, people will be less likely to generate identical ones?
632 2012-01-28 18:25:16 <roconnor> etotheipi_: okay, restarting armory fixed it
633 2012-01-28 18:25:33 <Diablo-D3> you know what Im thinking?
634 2012-01-28 18:25:40 <Diablo-D3> we're going to see wheatley again
635 2012-01-28 18:25:42 <etotheipi_> sipa, it's not all that important at-the-moment, it was more there to accommodate a future where there might be issues with people using sha256('Satoshi Nakamoto') for their root key
636 2012-01-28 18:25:56 <etotheipi_> roconnor, you shouldn't have to restart Armory, only close the wallet properties and reopen
637 2012-01-28 18:26:02 <etotheipi_> if that's not true, I'll have to look into it
638 2012-01-28 18:26:02 * roconnor needs a new secret key now
639 2012-01-28 18:26:22 <sipa> etotheipi_: imho that is not different from a future where people use [rootkey,chaincode ] = sha512("Satoshi Nakamoto")
640 2012-01-28 18:26:23 <roconnor> etotheipi_: I don't thikn closing the wallet properties was sufficent
641 2012-01-28 18:26:43 <etotheipi_> sipa... at the moment, you have to enter both, but I was planning at some point, to allow the user to enter one
642 2012-01-28 18:26:59 <sipa> etotheipi_: anyway, i don't mean to say you should change things, just wanted to let you know of a trick that reduced the required entropy without reducing security
643 2012-01-28 18:27:22 mcorlett has joined
644 2012-01-28 18:27:24 <etotheipi_> sipa, I completely understand, I just wanted to say that It was intentionally meant to provide extra entropy *in case* it was ever needed
645 2012-01-28 18:27:44 <etotheipi_> right now I don't think it's needed, but in the future I might decide I need it, and then I don't have to rewrite my wallet format
646 2012-01-28 18:28:05 <etotheipi_> I was even thinking I might change it to something like you suggest, so the user only needs the root key and chaincode will be deterministic
647 2012-01-28 18:28:48 <etotheipi_> and I can do that without changing the wallet format... just changing the way Armory calculates chaincode if oen is not supplied
648 2012-01-28 18:34:44 nonverba has quit (Quit: Page closed)
649 2012-01-28 18:35:12 Transformer has joined
650 2012-01-28 18:37:18 nonverba has joined
651 2012-01-28 18:38:02 Transformer has left ()
652 2012-01-28 18:38:25 <nonverba> alright, BTC to whoever helps me make "Open-Source-FPGA-Bitcoin-Miner"s script *not* send data that all gets rejected. pm me :) thanks!
653 2012-01-28 18:39:01 <roconnor> nonverba: is it okay if the script only pays me?
654 2012-01-28 18:39:49 <roconnor> etotheipi_: I restarted armory and sweeping still fails :(
655 2012-01-28 18:40:17 <etotheipi_> roconnor, I can't reproduce the issues you're seeing
656 2012-01-28 18:40:25 <roconnor> :(
657 2012-01-28 18:40:40 <etotheipi_> I'm trying tothink what would cause it...
658 2012-01-28 18:41:18 <luke-jr> nonverba: rather, get some support for extensions: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Getwork_support
659 2012-01-28 18:41:31 <etotheipi_> I just tried sending 10 BTC (testnet) to an imported address... deleting it... restarted armory and imported it into a diff wallet
660 2012-01-28 18:41:46 <etotheipi_> and to my surprise it actually showed up 10 BTC right away!
661 2012-01-28 18:41:46 iocor has joined
662 2012-01-28 18:42:21 Joric_ has joined
663 2012-01-28 18:42:23 <etotheipi_> oh, roconnor, this looks related
664 2012-01-28 18:42:40 <etotheipi_> I just realized, that both instances, it was supposed to pop up a password box
665 2012-01-28 18:42:54 diki has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
666 2012-01-28 18:42:55 <nonverba> i'm looking for someone to help me for pay because I have to work on other aspects of development that I'm not bad at :) i'm terrilbe with scripting
667 2012-01-28 18:43:20 <etotheipi_> for some reason, your password dialog is failing, and then the program skips right to the "can't do this while locked" error
668 2012-01-28 18:43:28 <lianj> what other part?
669 2012-01-28 18:43:50 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
670 2012-01-28 18:43:54 Joric_ is now known as Joric
671 2012-01-28 18:43:56 <roconnor> etotheipi_: http://hpaste.org/raw/57118
672 2012-01-28 18:44:10 <roconnor> here is the error I get when I try to send some money
673 2012-01-28 18:44:14 <etotheipi_> roconnor, haha, someone else just gave me that error
674 2012-01-28 18:44:21 <etotheipi_> let me commit the fix for that
675 2012-01-28 18:44:29 <etotheipi_> (but it wasn't breaking their ability to send)
676 2012-01-28 18:44:32 <roconnor> etotheipi_: if only you had a type system ... :P
677 2012-01-28 18:45:02 <roconnor> etotheipi_: You're making me pretty happy I don't program in Python :D
678 2012-01-28 18:45:15 <etotheipi_> roconnor, you don't know what you're missing :)
679 2012-01-28 18:45:33 <roconnor> OTOH, I'd never even get a dialog box working in Haskell ^_^
680 2012-01-28 18:45:43 <lianj> ^^
681 2012-01-28 18:45:44 <etotheipi_> I spend all day in C++ at work... doing the client in python is abs delightful
682 2012-01-28 18:46:43 <Joric> i fucking hate c++ always fall back to c
683 2012-01-28 18:47:08 <lianj> yea
684 2012-01-28 18:47:48 <etotheipi_> I much prefer C++ over C... but I have enough experience with strongly-typed languages that I feel safe without the "handrails" around python
685 2012-01-28 18:48:04 <etotheipi_> I don't mind spending an hour fixing a type-issue problem... because I already saved 3 hours elsewhere
686 2012-01-28 18:48:21 <sipa> if you're going for a language that allows you to shoot in the foot, at least go all the way, and allow yourself to overload the assignment operator :)
687 2012-01-28 18:48:40 <etotheipi_> roconnor, I just pushed a fix to that error you referenced
688 2012-01-28 18:48:47 <etotheipi_> do a git pull (no need to recompile)
689 2012-01-28 18:49:14 <Joric> just wrote a blockchain parser in plain c, stuck at reindexing i guess i have to use hashmap/trees for that )
690 2012-01-28 18:49:49 <etotheipi_> data structures are my specialty
691 2012-01-28 18:50:16 <etotheipi_> I love figuring out how to organize massive amounts of data in the most efficient configuration using pointers, STL and homegrown structures...yes I'm sick :)
692 2012-01-28 18:50:20 <Joric> etotheipi_ probably wrote his own index on python )
693 2012-01-28 18:50:51 <Joric> why are you reading the whole blockchain into memory
694 2012-01-28 18:51:08 <etotheipi_> Joric, because my original goal was to create the absolute fastest blockchain scanner, EVER
695 2012-01-28 18:51:36 <Joric> get rid of python )
696 2012-01-28 18:51:51 <etotheipi_> then I eventually decided I could use it to write a client... I knew it would heavy, but didn't expect the blockchain to grow 2x before I got done with the first release
697 2012-01-28 18:52:07 <etotheipi_> Joric... the python is only for the top layer, all the super-fast blockchain stuff is in C++
698 2012-01-28 18:52:27 <lianj> "fastest blockchain scanner ever, only works why 10_000 blocks"
699 2012-01-28 18:52:59 <etotheipi_> and I don't think it's possible to get it any faster.... you'll notice whne you plug in a random address to sweep, it immediately shows it's balance
700 2012-01-28 18:53:52 <lianj> fast maybe, but is it not unusable already?
701 2012-01-28 18:54:01 <etotheipi_> lianj, shortly
702 2012-01-28 18:54:24 <Joric> that super fastest scanner - does it build an index of transactions?
703 2012-01-28 18:54:50 <etotheipi_> part of the startup procedure is simply processing all headers and txs into maps based on hash
704 2012-01-28 18:55:09 <etotheipi_> and only stores pointers to that data in global RAM, no copying is done except the initial RAM copy
705 2012-01-28 18:55:17 <etotheipi_> err.. HDD copy
706 2012-01-28 18:55:49 [Tycho] has joined
707 2012-01-28 18:56:05 <etotheipi_> when I switch to non-full-RAM, I'll probably have to start creating/saving an index...
708 2012-01-28 18:56:25 <etotheipi_> although, sweeping an address from RAM still only takes about 10-20s, even if the entire blockchain is on disk
709 2012-01-28 18:56:59 <etotheipi_> err.. from cold boot, Armory will still pull out all unspent txOut for an address in 10-20s from disk
710 2012-01-28 18:57:16 <etotheipi_> okay, i'm talking too much :) back to dev
711 2012-01-28 18:58:11 <etotheipi_> roconnor, let me know if that push fixed your sweeping issue... I'm curious why the unlock dialog doesn't work on your system
712 2012-01-28 18:59:15 marf_away has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
713 2012-01-28 19:01:20 XX01XX has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
714 2012-01-28 19:06:58 genjix has joined
715 2012-01-28 19:07:34 <genjix> when will the blockchain be examined. is it still feb 1st?
716 2012-01-28 19:07:39 <genjix> or has the date been moved back?
717 2012-01-28 19:08:59 <BlueMatt> youd have to ask gavin, ie wait till monday
718 2012-01-28 19:09:11 <sipa> i believe the date will be pushed back
719 2012-01-28 19:09:47 <roconnor> etotheipi_: I had to unlock it twice, but sweeping seems to have worked
720 2012-01-28 19:10:05 <BlueMatt> or it will be examined on monday, and we will realize we are far short of 50% and check again later
721 2012-01-28 19:10:05 <etotheipi_> roconnor, that's an improvement!
722 2012-01-28 19:10:06 <genjix> k thanks
723 2012-01-28 19:11:51 <CIA-97> bitcoin: various checkhashverify * re413aa..2bc4fd bitcoind-personal/ (19 files in 5 dirs): (5 commits) http://tinyurl.com/7jsufre
724 2012-01-28 19:14:17 hexTech has quit (Quit: -)
725 2012-01-28 19:14:33 <roconnor> hmm
726 2012-01-28 19:14:46 <roconnor> etotheipi_: I getting some strange 0 confirmation transactions
727 2012-01-28 19:15:07 <etotheipi_> roconnor, how so?
728 2012-01-28 19:15:53 <etotheipi_> roconnor, have you recompiled the SWIG module since you pulled today ?
729 2012-01-28 19:16:38 <etotheipi_> the stuff I committed in the last hour didn't require recompiling... but it needed a "make swig" from the cppForSWIG directory
730 2012-01-28 19:16:53 <etotheipi_> err.. needed that to grab the major update committed a couple hours ago
731 2012-01-28 19:16:54 <roconnor> etotheipi_: I recompile everything from scratch automatically
732 2012-01-28 19:17:34 <roconnor> in a sandboxed environment
733 2012-01-28 19:17:40 <roconnor> well, not quite sandboxed
734 2012-01-28 19:18:02 <etotheipi_> roconnor, okay... because "weird zero-conf transactions" sound like the exact problem I spent 5 hours in a debugger fixing last night and this morning
735 2012-01-28 19:18:09 <roconnor> ya it does
736 2012-01-28 19:18:58 <roconnor> I did a sweep
737 2012-01-28 19:19:15 <etotheipi_> well if you can isolate what kind of tx you did... possibly if you swept an address with zero-conf change outputs...?
738 2012-01-28 19:19:18 <roconnor> and it seems to have added a second incorrect transaction
739 2012-01-28 19:19:34 <roconnor> I'm trying to figureout what it is
740 2012-01-28 19:20:04 <etotheipi_> okay, I'm going to keep myself on the armory-dev channel, to avoid bloating this channel anymore with Armory discussion
741 2012-01-28 19:20:29 <nonverba> still nobody for fixing a mining helper script? I'll make it worth your while...
742 2012-01-28 19:20:44 <etotheipi_> roconnor, please let me know if you figure out what it is
743 2012-01-28 19:21:03 <roconnor> etotheipi_: being able to cut and paste addresses from the transaction info box would be nice :D
744 2012-01-28 19:21:35 paraipan has joined
745 2012-01-28 19:21:38 <etotheipi_> roconnor, that's on my list of "30 tiny polishing" updates before alpha-release
746 2012-01-28 19:21:41 <etotheipi_> :)
747 2012-01-28 19:21:56 <lfm> is there a new pool started jan 18 or 19?
748 2012-01-28 19:22:51 jandd has quit (Quit: leaving)
749 2012-01-28 19:23:38 <etotheipi_> roconnor, are you still on testnet?
750 2012-01-28 19:23:45 <roconnor> etotheipi_: oh this ghost transaction is almost identical to the inital transaction I sent to my armory wallet that I seeded it with
751 2012-01-28 19:24:52 <etotheipi_> roconnor, how does the tx appear in the Satoshi client?
752 2012-01-28 19:25:16 <roconnor> ah that explains it
753 2012-01-28 19:25:27 <roconnor> I have two transactions in the satoshi client
754 2012-01-28 19:25:45 <etotheipi_> stuck?
755 2012-01-28 19:25:48 <roconnor> ya
756 2012-01-28 19:25:55 <etotheipi_> haha, not my problem!
757 2012-01-28 19:25:58 <roconnor> It was from my rogue relayer days
758 2012-01-28 19:26:05 <etotheipi_> oh wait it is.... I still have 8.2 BTC stuck in the Satoshi client, too
759 2012-01-28 19:26:14 <roconnor> well it isn't stuck
760 2012-01-28 19:26:23 <roconnor> it is an double spend transaction
761 2012-01-28 19:26:30 <etotheipi_> oh...
762 2012-01-28 19:26:39 <roconnor> you and satoshi both could benefit from hiding double spent transactions
763 2012-01-28 19:26:48 <roconnor> or droping them entirely
764 2012-01-28 19:26:49 <etotheipi_> roconnor, this is interesting
765 2012-01-28 19:27:02 <etotheipi_> while I'm using the Satoshi client, I'm expecting it to follow normal Satoshi client rules
766 2012-01-28 19:27:07 <etotheipi_> like not forwarding invalid transactions
767 2012-01-28 19:27:21 <etotheipi_> this is why I didn't bother doing any validation in Armory (yet)
768 2012-01-28 19:27:40 <etotheipi_> but if you have modified the Satoshi client, that might cause some problems
769 2012-01-28 19:28:10 <etotheipi_> I'm actually leaning towards trying to turn the satoshi networking engine into a permanent interface to the BTC network for me...
770 2012-01-28 19:28:35 <lfm> does anyone know who is putting out the blocks where they are dropping all the fees?
771 2012-01-28 19:29:04 <roconnor> IIUC satoshi will forward invalid transaction that it generates ... or something like that
772 2012-01-28 19:29:51 <BlueMatt> lfm: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/68649bef9395947f3a71e40daae053ca5c0aabca
773 2012-01-28 19:30:08 <etotheipi_> roconnor, but that's because it doesn't know they are invalid
774 2012-01-28 19:30:26 <etotheipi_> hence my case... I tried to send myself 8.2 BTC... but somehow the client generated an invalid tx
775 2012-01-28 19:30:44 <etotheipi_> now it just sits there with the TxOuts locked, at zero-conf.... re-broadcasting it every 30 min or so
776 2012-01-28 19:30:54 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr force_send * r8dfda4693a02 bitcoind-personal/src/ (bitcoinrpc.cpp main.cpp main.h noui.h wallet.cpp wallet.h): Don't automatically include fees via JSON-RPC, and (with undocumented -nosafefees option) allow forcing them to send with under the 'minimum' http://tinyurl.com/7ugvm3v
777 2012-01-28 19:30:56 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr force_send * r9e90948a5d44 bitcoind-personal/src/ (bitcoinrpc.cpp db.cpp init.cpp main.cpp main.h noui.h): Accept automatic fees up to new "maxtxfee" parameter http://tinyurl.com/73gn2cd
778 2012-01-28 19:30:57 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr force_send * r52380074ec58 bitcoind-personal/src/main.cpp: Accept any transaction (fee-free or even non-standard) from myself http://tinyurl.com/7f9ofeo
779 2012-01-28 19:30:58 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr force_send * r832a8260f2f5 bitcoind-personal/src/ (bitcoinrpc.cpp wallet.cpp wallet.h): Refactor maxtxfee and -nosafefees slightly to work together http://tinyurl.com/7xk6rc4
780 2012-01-28 19:31:18 <etotheipi_> which means Armory shows the zero-conf tx, too... I tried clearing the memory pool, but it just comes back
781 2012-01-28 19:32:44 <lfm> bleumatt: so it was standard bitcoind (still is) doing that?
782 2012-01-28 19:33:48 barmstrong has joined
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784 2012-01-28 19:36:42 paraipan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
785 2012-01-28 19:36:57 <BlueMatt> BlueMatt: lfm nfc I just saw the commit msg you will have to ask gavin or do some research as to when the bug was introduced
786 2012-01-28 19:37:58 <lfm> bluematt ok, I just noticed the odd blocks in the block chain. another 5 btc or so dropped in the bit bucket
787 2012-01-28 19:38:19 <BlueMatt> mmm
788 2012-01-28 19:38:58 <roconnor> lfm: how many coins are lost due to duplicate mining?
789 2012-01-28 19:39:02 <lfm> spread over 130+ blocks
790 2012-01-28 19:39:35 <lfm> rconner no way for me to find that out afain
791 2012-01-28 19:40:18 <lfm> afaik
792 2012-01-28 19:41:24 <etotheipi_> roconnor, I'm heading out for a bit... if you find anything else that looks like an Armory issue, please mention it on the #armory-dev channel
793 2012-01-28 19:41:50 <etotheipi_> I'm going to try to stop hijacking this channel with Armory discussion
794 2012-01-28 19:41:56 <lfm> rconner unless you mean the old pairs of identical coinbase txn, there has only ever been two pair so it was like 100btc
795 2012-01-28 19:41:57 <roconnor> etotheipi_: it isn't hijacking
796 2012-01-28 19:42:08 <roconnor> lfm: that is what I mean
797 2012-01-28 19:42:25 <roconnor> etotheipi_: armory is on-topic here AFAIU
798 2012-01-28 19:43:32 paraipan has joined
799 2012-01-28 19:45:41 <etotheipi_> roconnor, how do you feel about (the concept of) picking out the networking engine of the Satoshi client, and using it as a "plugin" for third-party clients
800 2012-01-28 19:45:43 [Tycho] has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
801 2012-01-28 19:46:14 <etotheipi_> I'm starting to realize that I could spend months on networking, and not get it right... yet I'm find now that it's actually easy to just put the satoshi client between me and the network, and everything seems to work great
802 2012-01-28 19:46:16 <roconnor> I have no feelings about it
803 2012-01-28 19:46:24 <etotheipi_> plus it supports the network...
804 2012-01-28 19:46:47 <etotheipi_> it means that all Armory users still run full-veriifcation nodes
805 2012-01-28 19:46:53 <roconnor> my test program talks with localhost too
806 2012-01-28 19:47:05 <lfm> etotheipi_ isnt that essentially what is done by running bitcoind with alternative front ends
807 2012-01-28 19:47:17 <etotheipi_> lfm, I believe so
808 2012-01-28 19:47:53 <etotheipi_> up til now ,I feel like it's more of a hobbyist/script-kiddie kind of usage of the Satoshi client... but I'm wondering about basing a real client on that (i.e. Armory)
809 2012-01-28 19:48:12 meed has joined
810 2012-01-28 19:48:50 <etotheipi_> I think gmaxwell is of the opinion that we should have more implementations of full-validation nodes... but I'm not seeing the benefit... especially when the devs seem to be so focused on security/networking fixes instead of upgrading the interface
811 2012-01-28 19:48:54 <lfm> ya, that should be fine. I think more alternatives are good to have
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819 2012-01-28 19:57:23 <etotheipi_> so if I read the MIT license correctly, it looks like I can pick out pieces of the Satoshi client of include them in my software, even if I make it closed source, as long as I provide attribution
820 2012-01-28 19:58:24 <luke-jr> etotheipi_: you need to include the license text too
821 2012-01-28 19:59:05 <etotheipi_> luke-jr, how do you feel about third-party software using the "reference client" for this purpose?
822 2012-01-28 19:59:19 <etotheipi_> or do you believe there should be multiple implementations of full-validation?
823 2012-01-28 19:59:39 <luke-jr> etotheipi_: I strongly think we need more full-validation clients
824 2012-01-28 20:00:02 <luke-jr> ideally not reusing Satoshi code tho
825 2012-01-28 20:00:08 <lianj> :D
826 2012-01-28 20:00:14 <roconnor> etotheipi_: even if we should have more full-vaidation clients; it isn't your responsiblity to make them.
827 2012-01-28 20:00:36 <etotheipi_> luke-jr, I'm conflicted though... I'm a good person to do it, but I feel like I will spend many months implementing and testing
828 2012-01-28 20:00:50 <luke-jr> etotheipi_: probably.
829 2012-01-28 20:00:54 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr accept_nonstdtxn * rf772002158a0 bitcoind-personal/src/ (init.cpp main.cpp): -acceptnonstdtxn option to skip "non-standard transaction" checks http://tinyurl.com/8yaovao
830 2012-01-28 20:00:59 <roconnor> etotheipi_: making a fully validating client is a stupid amount of work :D
831 2012-01-28 20:01:02 <luke-jr> etotheipi_: in the end, you decide what you spend your time doing
832 2012-01-28 20:01:11 <luke-jr> roconnor: that's why you're doing it? :P
833 2012-01-28 20:01:18 <roconnor> yep
834 2012-01-28 20:01:56 <etotheipi_> hmph
835 2012-01-28 20:02:22 <roconnor> I'm still not done yet
836 2012-01-28 20:02:35 <etotheipi_> okay, I'll ponder this while I work on reduced-RAM-Armory
837 2012-01-28 20:02:54 <roconnor> I need to filter signatures out before verifictation, I don't think I handle OP_CODESEPARATOR right yet, and I have to disallow duplicate coinbase spending.
838 2012-01-28 20:03:23 <etotheipi_> btw, is anyone currently using testnet? I'm mining right now, but would like to send my miner back to main-net
839 2012-01-28 20:03:42 <roconnor> etotheipi_: if I need mining on testnet I'll let gmaxwell know.
840 2012-01-28 20:03:49 <lianj> "filter signatures out before verifictation" ?
841 2012-01-28 20:04:40 <roconnor> // Drop the signature, since there's no way for a signature to sign itself
842 2012-01-28 20:04:41 <roconnor> scriptCode.FindAndDelete(CScript(vchSig));
843 2012-01-28 20:04:45 <roconnor> ^^ from script.cpp
844 2012-01-28 20:05:03 <etotheipi_> I never understood that, was it an error on the original description of OPCHECKSIG?
845 2012-01-28 20:05:31 <roconnor> etotheipi_: I presume it predates OP_CODESEPARATOR
846 2012-01-28 20:05:48 <roconnor> it isn't used in standard transactions
847 2012-01-28 20:05:57 <roconnor> I went out of my way to build a transaction on testnet that requires it
848 2012-01-28 20:06:07 <lianj> aw ok, i dont support OP_CODESEPARATOR too
849 2012-01-28 20:06:35 meed has quit (Quit: Leaving)
850 2012-01-28 20:07:21 <roconnor> http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/tx/2a303a4a64da5bf6a44e6f4de98e13b8f4f6bbdba66d6f9168f2daf72d60610c#i288614
851 2012-01-28 20:07:37 <roconnor> ^^ this transaction requires drop signature support to validate
852 2012-01-28 20:07:49 <roconnor> hmm, I should make one for OP_CHECKMULTISIG too
853 2012-01-28 20:08:59 <roconnor> etotheipi_: actually I'd prefer you stop mining testnet to help lower difficulty :D
854 2012-01-28 20:09:33 <etotheipi_> roconnor, haha i just realized that, as I see how many blocks I just mined in the last 3 hrs
855 2012-01-28 20:10:04 <etotheipi_> I set agression to 2, but it's a 6950, so it was still producing them pretty fast
856 2012-01-28 20:11:45 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr accept_nonstdtxn * rc65713fb8cb4 bitcoind-personal/src/ (init.cpp main.cpp): -acceptnonstdtxn option to skip "non-standard transaction" checks http://tinyurl.com/7jacduh
857 2012-01-28 20:11:55 jandd has joined
858 2012-01-28 20:13:16 gruez has joined
859 2012-01-28 20:13:37 <gruez> what's the most painless way to build for windows?
860 2012-01-28 20:14:21 dissipate_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
861 2012-01-28 20:14:43 <BlueMatt> get ubuntu, install mingw
862 2012-01-28 20:14:52 <BlueMatt> or get ubuntu, run it in gitian
863 2012-01-28 20:15:03 <BlueMatt> dont even try to do it on windows
864 2012-01-28 20:15:44 <gruez> BlueMatt: linux can build for windows?
865 2012-01-28 20:15:51 <BlueMatt> yep
866 2012-01-28 20:15:54 <BlueMatt> cross compile
867 2012-01-28 20:16:05 <BlueMatt> the windows releases of bitcoin are built on ubuntu
868 2012-01-28 20:17:33 <graingert> "Bitcoin client 0.5.2 for windows runs OK (on Wine)!"
869 2012-01-28 20:17:51 <gruez> lol
870 2012-01-28 20:18:06 <gruez> I'm trying to build on windows, but i'm missing some headers
871 2012-01-28 20:18:08 <gruez> inttypes.h
872 2012-01-28 20:18:09 <BlueMatt> meh, we have a linux build for a reason though...
873 2012-01-28 20:18:17 <gruez> and unistd.h
874 2012-01-28 20:18:25 <graingert> that's the thing with game theory
875 2012-01-28 20:18:32 <graingert> it allways assumes rational self interest
876 2012-01-28 20:18:33 <gruez> is there a reason why they're missing from visual studio?
877 2012-01-28 20:18:48 <BlueMatt> seriously, get ubuntu
878 2012-01-28 20:19:05 <gruez> :(
879 2012-01-28 20:19:14 <graingert> it would be good to get it to build on wind
880 2012-01-28 20:19:24 <BlueMatt> its possible, some people have
881 2012-01-28 20:19:33 <BlueMatt> its just >9000x easier on ubuntu
882 2012-01-28 20:19:41 * roconnor hates it when all build advice is "install some other distro/os/whatever".
883 2012-01-28 20:19:41 <gruez> gavin said:
884 2012-01-28 20:19:42 <gruez> We need more Windows developers, by the way; if you know a lot about developing in C++ on Windows and want to (for example) create a Visual Studio project or resurrect makefile.vc or fix the build instructions if they're not right that'd be spiffy.
885 2012-01-28 20:19:43 <BlueMatt> (I have before, just not on bitcoin-qt)
886 2012-01-28 20:19:55 <lfm> gruez unistd is the unix standard functions. they would be missing from visula studio cuz microsoft hates unix
887 2012-01-28 20:20:02 <BlueMatt> if you really want to, work at it its possible on windows
888 2012-01-28 20:20:05 <gruez> lfm: :/
889 2012-01-28 20:20:06 <BlueMatt> take a look on the forum
890 2012-01-28 20:20:13 <luke-jr> [15:12:47] <gruez> is there a reason why they're missing from visual studio? <-- cuz it sucks
891 2012-01-28 20:20:14 <BlueMatt> (you have to do mingw on windows)
892 2012-01-28 20:20:18 <gruez> i tried stealing the files from mingw
893 2012-01-28 20:20:25 <BlueMatt> get mingw+msys on windows
894 2012-01-28 20:20:33 <gruez> but it turns out that depends on some other shit from mingw
895 2012-01-28 20:20:34 <Joric> mingw is actually included into qt
896 2012-01-28 20:20:36 <gruez> so i gave up
897 2012-01-28 20:20:41 <Joric> i use qt's mingw
898 2012-01-28 20:20:42 <BlueMatt> so install qt creator
899 2012-01-28 20:20:47 <graingert> we going to port to qt5?
900 2012-01-28 20:20:54 <gruez> BlueMatt: i did
901 2012-01-28 20:20:56 <gruez> then i got this:
902 2012-01-28 20:20:57 <gruez> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=61543.msg718964;boardseen#new
903 2012-01-28 20:20:58 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr next-test * ra78110..9437c1 bitcoind-personal/ (22 files in 4 dirs): (11 commits) http://tinyurl.com/7vr93zh
904 2012-01-28 20:21:11 <gruez> that's after fixing the error with boost
905 2012-01-28 20:21:13 <lfm> also cuz microsoft hates any standard (like posix) that they cant control
906 2012-01-28 20:21:22 <gruez> what's with all the MS hate?
907 2012-01-28 20:21:35 <Joric> also it's much easier to copy all deps to mingw/lib/include rather than setting all paths
908 2012-01-28 20:21:36 <gruez> i've never seen this much MS hate, ever
909 2012-01-28 20:21:38 <BlueMatt> its much easier to code on linux
910 2012-01-28 20:21:45 splatster has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
911 2012-01-28 20:21:46 <lfm> gruez its mutual
912 2012-01-28 20:22:20 <gruez> also, if i make a C# application
913 2012-01-28 20:22:23 <gruez> will it run on mono?
914 2012-01-28 20:22:32 <graingert> nope
915 2012-01-28 20:22:33 <lfm> gruez maybe
916 2012-01-28 20:22:37 <Joric> well, i have a few linuxes too, and a couple of macoses
917 2012-01-28 20:22:51 <gruez> graingert: then how can i make it run on mono?
918 2012-01-28 20:23:01 <gruez> it also uses a few dllimports
919 2012-01-28 20:23:07 <graingert> with great difficulty
920 2012-01-28 20:23:09 <gruez> so i guess i'm screwed?
921 2012-01-28 20:23:28 <Joric> sadly i can't check if bitcoin-qt supports BE machines i don't have one
922 2012-01-28 20:23:33 <gruez> uh, what about with wine?
923 2012-01-28 20:23:38 <lfm> gruez if you have bought into the ms crack then you may indeed be screwed
924 2012-01-28 20:23:46 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
925 2012-01-28 20:23:52 <gruez> lfm: ms crack?
926 2012-01-28 20:24:01 <gruez> what crack
927 2012-01-28 20:24:17 <lfm> adictive ms lock in
928 2012-01-28 20:24:50 <k9quaint> there is no guessing
929 2012-01-28 20:24:53 <gruez> lfm: i do agree, visual studio is quite addictive
930 2012-01-28 20:24:57 <k9quaint> you are running windows, you are 100% screwed
931 2012-01-28 20:25:03 <gruez> tried QT creator
932 2012-01-28 20:25:09 <gruez> raqequit within 15 minutes
933 2012-01-28 20:25:26 <gruez> i wanted to edit the function of a button
934 2012-01-28 20:25:30 <gruez> double click, nothing
935 2012-01-28 20:25:41 osmosis has joined
936 2012-01-28 20:25:51 <graingert> gruez: there is also monodevelop
937 2012-01-28 20:26:25 <gruez> so after i install ubuntu
938 2012-01-28 20:26:31 <gruez> what's the list of packages i should install?
939 2012-01-28 20:26:43 <nonverba> anyone in here interested in a few BTC to help me get the miner script for an FPGA miner working? currently 100% rejects...
940 2012-01-28 20:27:03 <Joric> which FPGA miner?
941 2012-01-28 20:28:00 <nonverba> progranism's
942 2012-01-28 20:28:16 <nonverba> not the spartan one taht people made *for* mining
943 2012-01-28 20:28:22 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
944 2012-01-28 20:28:26 <nonverba> i'm using a Terasic dev board
945 2012-01-28 20:28:30 <nonverba> (Altera)
946 2012-01-28 20:31:43 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r53388c86ba4f eloipool/ (11 files in 2 dirs): License Eloipool under the AGPLv3 http://tinyurl.com/6qrnhjm
947 2012-01-28 20:31:46 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r732d325a9441 eloipool/ (11 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'AGPL' http://tinyurl.com/7v4gz4s
948 2012-01-28 20:31:47 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r6254f0ddbae5 eloipool/README: Document name & license in README http://tinyurl.com/7b6lwla
949 2012-01-28 20:32:50 pickett has joined
950 2012-01-28 20:33:32 <nonverba> well, if anyone's interested pm me, i'll make it worth your while. if it's something simple I'm missing even better, then it's fixed sooner, and I'll still pay :)
951 2012-01-28 20:41:13 paraipan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
952 2012-01-28 20:42:00 nonverba has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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959 2012-01-28 20:53:32 <gmaxwell> Any idea how many total fees were burned by the bug?
960 2012-01-28 20:54:43 <BlueMatt> <lfm> bluematt ok, I just noticed the odd blocks in the block chain. another 5 btc or so dropped in the bit bucket
961 2012-01-28 20:54:55 <gmaxwell> Ah, missed that.
962 2012-01-28 20:55:10 <gmaxwell> I feel kinda stupid having lookeed at several of these blocksâ I even linked to one here that _I_ produced which was clearly burning fees.
963 2012-01-28 20:55:14 <gmaxwell> doh.
964 2012-01-28 20:55:50 <BlueMatt> thats such a common feeling around here its scary
965 2012-01-28 20:56:02 dr_win_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
966 2012-01-28 21:00:02 * luke-jr notes BIP 17 has much less potential to break random stuff like this
967 2012-01-28 21:00:03 <luke-jr> bbl
968 2012-01-28 21:02:33 chmod755 has left ("Leaving.")
969 2012-01-28 21:03:42 BTC_Bear has joined
970 2012-01-28 21:07:01 <occulta> hey
971 2012-01-28 21:07:11 <occulta> isnt this default? paytxfee=0.00
972 2012-01-28 21:07:22 <gmaxwell> Yes.
973 2012-01-28 21:08:16 <occulta> so if i dont put that in .conf, that is the value? does that mean it can set the fee to 0.005 ?
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979 2012-01-28 21:12:24 <graingert> we should really have the md5sum of the apps on the download page
980 2012-01-28 21:13:00 <BlueMatt> thats worth...nothing
981 2012-01-28 21:13:17 <graingert> obv they need to be signed
982 2012-01-28 21:13:20 darkee has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
983 2012-01-28 21:13:27 <graingert> perhaps the sha then :p
984 2012-01-28 21:13:30 <BlueMatt> still worth nothing if its md5
985 2012-01-28 21:13:37 <BlueMatt> signed sha would be worth something
986 2012-01-28 21:14:10 pickett has joined
987 2012-01-28 21:15:56 darkee is now known as !~darkee@gateway/tor-sasl/darkee|darkee
988 2012-01-28 21:17:39 <graingert> signed sha is probably neccessary
989 2012-01-28 21:17:55 <graingert> I don't know why it isn't included on the release notes
990 2012-01-28 21:18:46 <roconnor> gmaxwell: what's the bug?
991 2012-01-28 21:18:48 <BlueMatt> gavin does publish them, but yea they should be more available
992 2012-01-28 21:20:25 <graingert> this page should have them for each release
993 2012-01-28 21:20:28 <graingert> http://bitcoin.org/releases/2012/01/09/v0.5.2.html
994 2012-01-28 21:21:04 <BlueMatt> bitcoin.org is opensource
995 2012-01-28 21:21:14 <BlueMatt> feel free to pull request the changes
996 2012-01-28 21:22:02 <gmaxwell> roconnor: aliasing a local variable preventing an accumuliator from accumulating, probably as a result of code copy and past.
997 2012-01-28 21:22:13 <roconnor> is it BIP 16 related?
998 2012-01-28 21:23:02 <gmaxwell> It was probably introduced as a result of good practice (copying acceptance code between block generation and validation) in BIP16 development, but it's not bip16 related.
999 2012-01-28 21:23:35 <gmaxwell> s/past/paste/
1000 2012-01-28 21:23:58 <roconnor> >_>
1001 2012-01-28 21:24:32 <BlueMatt> this would never have happened if we deprecated getwork ;)
1002 2012-01-28 21:25:12 <graingert> BlueMatt: I can't send a pull request to include a signature I can't create
1003 2012-01-28 21:25:23 <BlueMatt> gavin publishes the sigs, they are out there
1004 2012-01-28 21:26:22 <graingert> do you have a link?
1005 2012-01-28 21:26:35 <BlueMatt> on the forum release announcements
1006 2012-01-28 21:26:45 <BlueMatt> dont have a link, sorry
1007 2012-01-28 21:26:58 <splatster> Will bitcoin-qt version 0.6 be ready for a release candidate any time soon?
1008 2012-01-28 21:27:20 <BlueMatt> heh
1009 2012-01-28 21:30:08 <graingert> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/issues/15
1010 2012-01-28 21:30:12 <graingert> tadare
1011 2012-01-28 21:31:29 <BlueMatt> fair enough
1012 2012-01-28 21:31:57 <graingert> I could only find version 0.4 though
1013 2012-01-28 21:32:07 <BlueMatt> hmm, well maybe gavin forgot once of twice
1014 2012-01-28 21:32:19 <BlueMatt> we'll see what happens
1015 2012-01-28 21:32:57 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: graingert opened issue 15 on bitcoin/bitcoin.org <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/issues/15>
1016 2012-01-28 21:34:51 <occulta> my question about paytxfee
1017 2012-01-28 21:35:07 <occulta> do i need to set it to 0.0000000 for no fees?
1018 2012-01-28 21:35:15 <occulta> default seems to charge 0.005
1019 2012-01-28 21:35:48 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,wiki "Transaction Fees"
1020 2012-01-28 21:35:50 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees | Dec 24, 2011 ... Transaction fees may be included with any transfer of bitcoins from one address to another. At the moment, many transactions are typically ...
1021 2012-01-28 21:36:03 <BlueMatt> occulta: read that, it should answer all your questions :)
1022 2012-01-28 21:36:44 graingert has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1023 2012-01-28 21:37:01 <occulta> no not really :P
1024 2012-01-28 21:37:06 <occulta> i thought minimum fee was 0.00000000
1025 2012-01-28 21:37:12 <occulta> nothing
1026 2012-01-28 21:37:16 <genjix> gmaxwell, roconnor: i'm putting this out tomorrow if you want to give some thoughts on this: http://privatepaste.com/c8b40edb00
1027 2012-01-28 21:37:21 <occulta> also that wiki is very old, relating to client 0.3 *
1028 2012-01-28 21:37:26 <BlueMatt> "minimum TX fee for new transactions reduced to 0.0005 BTC."
1029 2012-01-28 21:37:29 <BlueMatt> its still true
1030 2012-01-28 21:37:35 <genjix> whether it captures the entirety of the EVAL, P2SH, CHV discussion
1031 2012-01-28 21:37:55 <gmaxwell> genjix: ugh. that makes me feel sick. Representing it as a vote is simply misleading.
1032 2012-01-28 21:38:04 <gmaxwell> It's not that kind of 'vote'.
1033 2012-01-28 21:38:25 <genjix> what would you call it then?
1034 2012-01-28 21:38:39 <gmaxwell> I give up.
1035 2012-01-28 21:38:45 <genjix> it basically is, and this is informing the voters to ensure they make a better decision
1036 2012-01-28 21:38:47 <gmaxwell> This process is all broken.
1037 2012-01-28 21:38:54 <gmaxwell> No, it's pissing all over the walls.
1038 2012-01-28 21:39:52 <gmaxwell> genjix: The reason for the coinbase tags is _NOT_ to conduct a vote (if it were, I suppose the software would also tally the result) but simply because there needs to be a hash power measurement because the new rules are only safe if the majority of all future hashpower enforces them.
1039 2012-01-28 21:40:42 <gmaxwell> genjix: there is also no way this is going active on Feb 15th now. So the representation of that is creating false urgency. Though I suppose its up to gavin to announce moving that back.
1040 2012-01-28 21:40:59 <gmaxwell> genjix: you're also characterizing this as gavin vs luke, which is a complete load of rubbish.
1041 2012-01-28 21:41:22 <Joric> are there any pure-python parsers for berkeley db? my google skills are failing me
1042 2012-01-28 21:41:40 <Joric> or at least format documentation
1043 2012-01-28 21:41:55 <BlueMatt> bdb parsers are impossibly hard to find
1044 2012-01-28 21:42:03 <genjix> i asked for feedback to write a better article and you're simply attacking me
1045 2012-01-28 21:42:06 <Joric> yeah )
1046 2012-01-28 21:42:07 <BlueMatt> there may be a bdb wrapper
1047 2012-01-28 21:42:10 <genjix> Joric: pybsbdb
1048 2012-01-28 21:42:18 <Joric> want to get rid of bsddb dependency, gae doesn't have it
1049 2012-01-28 21:42:22 <genjix> it is a good bdb wrapper
1050 2012-01-28 21:42:29 <BlueMatt> genjix: his feedback is that there should be no article
1051 2012-01-28 21:42:39 <BlueMatt> (and I agree)
1052 2012-01-28 21:43:07 <genjix> yes let the mere users fester in ignorance
1053 2012-01-28 21:43:10 <gmaxwell> genjix: sorry. This whole "dispute" thing has basically pushed my interest in contributing to bitcoin technically negative.
1054 2012-01-28 21:43:26 <Joric> etotheipi_, do you need pure python bdb parser aswell?
1055 2012-01-28 21:43:32 graingert has joined
1056 2012-01-28 21:43:42 <genjix> i'm only trying to inform people how bitcoin works (if you look at my past articles)
1057 2012-01-28 21:43:49 <gmaxwell> And I'm irate because I feel like I've invested time in something that now has net negative return (it stresses me out). I shouldn't be taking that out on you.
1058 2012-01-28 21:43:57 <Diablo-D3> [04:35:13] <gmaxwell> genjix: you're also characterizing this as gavin vs luke, which is a complete load of rubbish.
1059 2012-01-28 21:43:58 <Diablo-D3> yes really
1060 2012-01-28 21:44:06 <Diablo-D3> because if there was some sort of cage match between the two
1061 2012-01-28 21:44:12 <Diablo-D3> gavin would be going in dry.
1062 2012-01-28 21:44:30 * BlueMatt suggests you leave authors out of the article
1063 2012-01-28 21:44:36 <gmaxwell> genjix: explaining what the P2SH stuff does is fantastic. People seemed to like it when I explained it in #bitcoin-mining the other day.
1064 2012-01-28 21:44:39 <BlueMatt> (as its irrelevant)
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1067 2012-01-28 21:45:09 Ahimoth_ is now known as Ahimoth
1068 2012-01-28 21:45:14 <gmaxwell> genjix: inviting people into taking positions over technical minutia which they won't be qualified to really have an opinion on without a lot more understanding than you can put into the article... meh.
1069 2012-01-28 21:45:52 <BlueMatt> esp when their opinion wont have any effect on the outcome aside from making the pissing match bigger
1070 2012-01-28 21:46:08 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: exactly.
1071 2012-01-28 21:46:09 <BlueMatt> (kinda doubt any will switch pools)
1072 2012-01-28 21:46:33 wirehead has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1073 2012-01-28 21:46:50 <gmaxwell> The solution to this needs to be consensus of the interested and compentent. Not a bigger dispute decided by whomever can convince more people to come to their side.
1074 2012-01-28 21:46:55 <genjix> i'd rather people have a say in the matter even if it makes life tougher for developers to explain their decisions.
1075 2012-01-28 21:46:57 erle- has joined
1076 2012-01-28 21:47:04 <gmaxwell> The latter case has no winners.
1077 2012-01-28 21:47:17 <genjix> these kinds of decisions should always be deliberately difficult and hard
1078 2012-01-28 21:47:28 <BlueMatt> what?
1079 2012-01-28 21:47:39 <BlueMatt> we should make all of our decisions harder?
1080 2012-01-28 21:47:55 <genjix> no big decisions to the protocol or system
1081 2012-01-28 21:48:09 <genjix> implementation decisions - fine.
1082 2012-01-28 21:48:28 <BlueMatt> but we should make the big decisions harder on ourselves?
1083 2012-01-28 21:48:35 <gmaxwell> genjix: So what, some statemen with a prominant website gets people all upset over their half understandings of some technical details and they go against the decisions of the people who are actually spending time to work on the software? You know what the outcome of that is? The people working on it _leave_, and the only people left to make additions are the people who are either too clueless or lazy to contribute now, and luke.
1084 2012-01-28 21:48:48 <BlueMatt> by making the decisions into huge pissing matches where politics takes on more importance than technical arguments?
1085 2012-01-28 21:49:06 <genjix> umm hello?
1086 2012-01-28 21:49:28 <genjix> it's already that way
1087 2012-01-28 21:49:36 <gmaxwell> genjix: when we had the discussion about what would become BIP16 the discussion ended without anyone objecting to that decision. (except luke, who'd left early)
1088 2012-01-28 21:50:17 <genjix> sure. but i feel a bit apprehensive about telling our users this is how it will be, you have no say and then giving them the finger
1089 2012-01-28 21:50:33 <BlueMatt> if they feel like really getting involved, great
1090 2012-01-28 21:50:42 <BlueMatt> they can come in here and chat, and post on the forum
1091 2012-01-28 21:50:54 <BlueMatt> s/forum/mailing list/
1092 2012-01-28 21:51:01 <gmaxwell> genjix: your article is also full of factual errors. For example, the maximum recusion depth was always part of OP_EVAL. roconnor's important contribution was realizing that the implementation was buggy and the limit didn't work.
1093 2012-01-28 21:51:06 <BlueMatt> (freudian slip)
1094 2012-01-28 21:51:44 <gmaxwell> genjix: I don't think any user would be opposed to P2SH as it isâ when I explained it in bitcoin-mining the other day people were very excited about it.
1095 2012-01-28 21:52:11 <gmaxwell> genjix: the reason to oppose it is just the risk of unknown bugsâ a very important concern, but not one that causual users are qualified to reason about, unfortunately.
1096 2012-01-28 21:52:59 graingert has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1097 2012-01-28 21:53:03 <gmaxwell> genjix: if you think this needs to be delayed in order to address that, then greatâ but where is the plan that converts extra time into extra software quality?
1098 2012-01-28 21:53:16 <genjix> i dont have a viewpoint on this.
1099 2012-01-28 21:53:35 <genjix> if p2sh, chv or none comes along then i'll implement them.
1100 2012-01-28 21:53:37 <BlueMatt> so why are you encouraging others to make one?
1101 2012-01-28 21:53:56 b4epoche_ has joined
1102 2012-01-28 21:54:00 <genjix> my experience is in software architecture not protocols, so i'm not commenting
1103 2012-01-28 21:54:25 b4epoche has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1104 2012-01-28 21:54:25 b4epoche_ is now known as b4epoche
1105 2012-01-28 21:54:28 <genjix> BlueMatt: because i like people to have choice and freedom
1106 2012-01-28 21:54:45 <genjix> it is not harmful to give people choice or information
1107 2012-01-28 21:54:47 <BlueMatt> they do, if they actually want to come and reason about the issues, there is always someone here to discuss with
1108 2012-01-28 21:54:53 <BlueMatt> but they dont have choice
1109 2012-01-28 21:55:18 <BlueMatt> and unless they all switch to p2pool overnight, they wont get one
1110 2012-01-28 21:56:27 shazooun has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1111 2012-01-28 21:56:33 <gmaxwell> genjix: there can't be choice and freedom without understanding. People don't bother even switching pools when their pools cost them money.
1112 2012-01-28 21:56:55 shazooun has joined
1113 2012-01-28 21:57:11 <genjix> my worry is someday bitcoin becomes corrupted. see this extra scrutiny as an opportunity to build a culture of openness
1114 2012-01-28 21:57:17 <genjix> it is not at all bad.
1115 2012-01-28 21:57:22 <tcatm> it's not so much about having a choice but discovering "the best" way to implement more complex transactions types...
1116 2012-01-28 21:57:24 <gmaxwell> genjix: if you're concerned about the ecosystem why aren't you out there figuring out why people are paying 110%-115% PPS for secret mining projects? and telling the people who are contributing who don't currently know where their hash power is going.
1117 2012-01-28 21:57:48 <genjix> gmaxwell: i am writing an article on that
1118 2012-01-28 21:57:56 <gmaxwell> Oh. :)
1119 2012-01-28 21:58:05 <roconnor> genjix: s/Both BIP 0017 and BIP 0018 are/Both BIP 0016 and BIP 0017 are/
1120 2012-01-28 21:58:13 <genjix> but i have never mined a block so a lot of this is news to me.
1121 2012-01-28 21:58:39 <roconnor> PPS?
1122 2012-01-28 21:58:42 <genjix> like proportional mining being a scam and understanding the various statistical measures.
1123 2012-01-28 21:58:47 <gmaxwell> roconnor: pay per share.
1124 2012-01-28 21:58:48 <genjix> pay per share
1125 2012-01-28 21:59:20 <genjix> thanks roconnor
1126 2012-01-28 21:59:43 <gmaxwell> roconnor: people are being given a signficant premium on mining above the expected rewards, with ~zero payout variance.
1127 2012-01-28 22:00:17 <roconnor> gmaxwell: paid it bitcoin?
1128 2012-01-28 22:00:20 <roconnor> *in
1129 2012-01-28 22:00:31 <gmaxwell> roconnor: yes. If it were paid in USD it would be completely sensible.
1130 2012-01-28 22:00:44 <gmaxwell> roconnor: paid in bitcoin daily too.
1131 2012-01-28 22:00:47 <roconnor> that doesn't sound sustainable
1132 2012-01-28 22:01:24 <gmaxwell> roconnor: if it were being used to promote a new mining pool, for example, it would also be sensible... but this is for private projects with no published hash rates, so it doesn't have promotional value.
1133 2012-01-28 22:01:48 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: link?
1134 2012-01-28 22:02:13 <gmaxwell> My best theory is that they're doing something useful with merged mining, next best is that they've got some idiot money laundering scheme (e.g. give miners dirty silkroad coins), worst outcome is that it's for some idiot attack. :(
1135 2012-01-28 22:02:57 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54467.0
1136 2012-01-28 22:03:02 <gmaxwell> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=61117.0
1137 2012-01-28 22:03:20 <gmaxwell> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=55819.0 (A meta service to aggregate these offers into a bidding market)
1138 2012-01-28 22:03:25 <gmaxwell> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=61570.0
1139 2012-01-28 22:03:50 <BlueMatt> now thats just weird
1140 2012-01-28 22:03:50 <gmaxwell> There are more... there are at least a half dozen people doing this all of a sudden.
1141 2012-01-28 22:04:15 wirehead has joined
1142 2012-01-28 22:04:40 <roconnor> gmaxwell: I don't really see how it could be used to launder money
1143 2012-01-28 22:04:51 <gmaxwell> roconnor: I said idiot for a reason! :)
1144 2012-01-28 22:04:59 <roconnor> ah
1145 2012-01-28 22:05:04 <BTC_Bear> gmaxwell: quick question as to this:
1146 2012-01-28 22:05:06 <BTC_Bear> the checkpoints are there to keep from overtaking the blockchain, or at least it is a side benefit. gmaxwell would know more than I. But I believe, I am correct.
1147 2012-01-28 22:05:49 <roconnor> BTC_Bear: it is there to stop DOS attacks by sending you long but low work chains.
1148 2012-01-28 22:05:55 <gmaxwell> BTC_Bear: nah, not reallyâ the checkpoints do that as a side effect but they're so far back that you couldn't realistically overtake even with a good multiple of the hash power for a short window.
1149 2012-01-28 22:05:58 <CIA-97> bitcoin: jedi95 * rec8af03cfdf7 Phoenix-Miner/minerutil/RPCProtocol.py: Fixed expire= for X-Roll-Ntime http://tinyurl.com/7xwchtb
1150 2012-01-28 22:06:08 <BTC_Bear> thanx
1151 2012-01-28 22:06:11 <gmaxwell> what roconnor said, they avoid some stupid DOS attacks.
1152 2012-01-28 22:06:16 <JFK911> where can I get 115%
1153 2012-01-28 22:07:01 <gmaxwell> I guess the risk of a new checkpoint being set does discourage someone from working in secret on a very long overtaking fork, but thats also some speculative side benefit.
1154 2012-01-28 22:07:43 <BlueMatt> as a sidenote, we need a new checkpoint for 0.6
1155 2012-01-28 22:07:49 <BlueMatt> s/for/before/
1156 2012-01-28 22:10:33 dr_win has joined
1157 2012-01-28 22:12:10 <roconnor> genjix: gavin knew about the looping behaviour in OP_EVAL well before december.
1158 2012-01-28 22:12:43 <roconnor> genjix: the maximum iteration code was there from the beginning
1159 2012-01-28 22:12:44 <genjix> roconnor: i've corrected that
1160 2012-01-28 22:13:27 <occulta> there is a min TX fee?
1161 2012-01-28 22:13:38 <occulta> so how is that 'free' ?
1162 2012-01-28 22:13:48 marf_away has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1163 2012-01-28 22:13:52 <roconnor> occulta: not really; the miners decide whether to accept a transaction for mining or not
1164 2012-01-28 22:13:59 <roconnor> some will do it for free
1165 2012-01-28 22:14:53 <occulta> huh
1166 2012-01-28 22:15:02 <occulta> miners set the fees?
1167 2012-01-28 22:15:17 <occulta> so what happens when all blocks are mined?
1168 2012-01-28 22:15:31 <roconnor> then the miners only get fees
1169 2012-01-28 22:15:38 <gmaxwell> occulta: All blocks are never mined. You're misunderstanding what mining means.
1170 2012-01-28 22:15:46 <occulta> yes i am
1171 2012-01-28 22:15:56 <occulta> i was thinking about this the other day
1172 2012-01-28 22:16:00 <occulta> but still, free transaction means no fee
1173 2012-01-28 22:16:06 <occulta> how can you sugar coat this?
1174 2012-01-28 22:16:08 paraipan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1175 2012-01-28 22:16:20 <Joric> wow a pool with 115% payout )
1176 2012-01-28 22:16:37 <roconnor> occulta: bitcoin is usually advertised as low-fee rather than no-fee
1177 2012-01-28 22:16:52 <gmaxwell> occulta: Mining is the process of adding blocks to bitcoin's distributed transaction log. As a side effect and a way of introducting coins, the system gives the miner some newly created coins, they also recieve fees. The amount of newly created coins goes down geometrically over time.
1178 2012-01-28 22:16:56 <roconnor> (though I don't know how honest that is)
1179 2012-01-28 22:16:57 <occulta> na, i see no fees in wikis and suxch
1180 2012-01-28 22:16:58 <occulta> so why is there fees again?
1181 2012-01-28 22:17:03 paraipan has joined
1182 2012-01-28 22:17:13 <occulta> yes i understand that
1183 2012-01-28 22:17:20 <occulta> so what happens when they are all mined?
1184 2012-01-28 22:17:27 <gmaxwell> When all what are mined/
1185 2012-01-28 22:17:29 <gmaxwell> ?
1186 2012-01-28 22:17:30 <occulta> i was under the impression there is a limit
1187 2012-01-28 22:17:40 <gmaxwell> There isn't a limit to the number of blocks. The blocks go on forever.
1188 2012-01-28 22:17:40 <occulta> coins/blocks?
1189 2012-01-28 22:17:41 <roconnor> blocks are produced at an average of once every 10 minutes forever.
1190 2012-01-28 22:17:43 genjix has left ()
1191 2012-01-28 22:17:55 <roconnor> there is a limit to the number of coins distriubted
1192 2012-01-28 22:17:57 <occulta> says who roconnor? doesnt that depend if people are mining ?
1193 2012-01-28 22:18:00 <BlueMatt> occulta: anywhere that says bitcoin is no-fee is wrong
1194 2012-01-28 22:18:11 <gmaxwell> The limit of 21million arises as the consequence of the geometric decline. We'd have it even if the newly created coins were never zero.
1195 2012-01-28 22:18:16 <occulta> who is going to mine, when there are no coins left exactly ?
1196 2012-01-28 22:18:22 <roconnor> as time goes on the number of new coins distributed in blocks dwindles to 0, but the blocks keep coming.
1197 2012-01-28 22:18:32 <occulta> who would mine these?
1198 2012-01-28 22:18:34 <roconnor> occulta: miners get the transaction fees
1199 2012-01-28 22:18:35 <BlueMatt> occulta: people who are getting fees
1200 2012-01-28 22:18:39 <occulta> im guessing no transactions can happen wthout blocks
1201 2012-01-28 22:18:44 <occulta> ah wow thats stupid
1202 2012-01-28 22:18:47 <occulta> i missed this.
1203 2012-01-28 22:18:48 <occulta> lol
1204 2012-01-28 22:18:49 <occulta> !
1205 2012-01-28 22:18:58 <occulta> so in 140 years
1206 2012-01-28 22:18:59 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1207 2012-01-28 22:19:01 <occulta> people will be charging 1btc for a transaction
1208 2012-01-28 22:19:02 <occulta> sweet
1209 2012-01-28 22:19:06 <roconnor> possibly
1210 2012-01-28 22:19:09 traviscj has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1211 2012-01-28 22:19:13 <occulta> man thats stupid
1212 2012-01-28 22:19:15 <occulta> like an early PP
1213 2012-01-28 22:19:18 <roconnor> it's hard to say for sure
1214 2012-01-28 22:19:28 <gmaxwell> occulta: 1 BTC sounds super unlikely if bitcoin were still used 140 years from now.
1215 2012-01-28 22:19:34 <BlueMatt> there is another argument that fees spiral downwards to 0
1216 2012-01-28 22:19:43 <roconnor> right
1217 2012-01-28 22:19:52 <occulta> so why can i pay 0 fee with my client ?
1218 2012-01-28 22:19:57 <occulta> rather
1219 2012-01-28 22:20:11 <occulta> the default for paytxfee is 0.00
1220 2012-01-28 22:20:15 <gmaxwell> Sure.
1221 2012-01-28 22:20:15 <occulta> so i need to change this to 0.00000000 >?
1222 2012-01-28 22:20:24 <gmaxwell> no.
1223 2012-01-28 22:20:34 Clipse has joined
1224 2012-01-28 22:20:35 <occulta> 0.0005 isnt 0
1225 2012-01-28 22:20:40 <occulta> i dont care how little it is
1226 2012-01-28 22:20:43 <gmaxwell> occulta: we use fees for another purpose todayâ they're used to get your transactions to work when the fail the automatic anti-DDOS rules.
1227 2012-01-28 22:21:18 <gmaxwell> occulta: So if your node knows that other nodes wouldn't forward your transaction because it objectively looks like a DOS attack, it adds a tiny fee to prove otherwise.
1228 2012-01-28 22:21:20 <occulta> someone needs to change the weusecoins.com video then
1229 2012-01-28 22:21:20 <occulta> 'no fees'
1230 2012-01-28 22:21:20 <occulta> lies
1231 2012-01-28 22:21:30 <gmaxwell> The weusecoins video is accurate.
1232 2012-01-28 22:21:39 <occulta> pretty sure its not
1233 2012-01-28 22:21:41 <gmaxwell> It does not say no fees.
1234 2012-01-28 22:21:55 <occulta> pf
1235 2012-01-28 22:22:04 <roconnor> gmaxwell: yes it does
1236 2012-01-28 22:22:39 <occulta> im checkjing
1237 2012-01-28 22:22:47 <gmaxwell> I'll take bets on it.
1238 2012-01-28 22:22:51 <occulta> im 99% sure
1239 2012-01-28 22:22:52 <riush> can't we agree on 'practically' free? i mean are people really upset about fractions of cents?
1240 2012-01-28 22:22:52 <gmaxwell> Who's game?
1241 2012-01-28 22:23:07 <gmaxwell> riush: some people are, yes.
1242 2012-01-28 22:23:21 <occulta> 1:31
1243 2012-01-28 22:23:22 <gmaxwell> riush: it's fractions of a cent which are only applied rarely, in fact.
1244 2012-01-28 22:23:30 <occulta> gmaxwell: 1:31
1245 2012-01-28 22:23:38 <gmaxwell> :17 "this means that fees are much lower""
1246 2012-01-28 22:23:40 <occulta> what does that say?
1247 2012-01-28 22:23:45 <occulta> no
1248 2012-01-28 22:23:47 <occulta> check my time
1249 2012-01-28 22:24:07 <gmaxwell> occulta: there are no fees to the _reciever_ of coins.
1250 2012-01-28 22:24:08 Joric has quit ()
1251 2012-01-28 22:24:18 <occulta> lmao
1252 2012-01-28 22:24:20 <occulta> im sorry
1253 2012-01-28 22:24:21 <roconnor> ah
1254 2012-01-28 22:24:25 <occulta> but im all for btc
1255 2012-01-28 22:24:28 <occulta> but thats fkin stupid
1256 2012-01-28 22:24:30 <gmaxwell> occulta: which is that it's talking about at that point. At :17 it's talking about sending.
1257 2012-01-28 22:24:30 <roconnor> see, you are both right
1258 2012-01-28 22:24:48 <gmaxwell> occulta: I agree, thats kind of unfortunate there.
1259 2012-01-28 22:25:07 <occulta> im disappointed
1260 2012-01-28 22:25:10 <occulta> may need to sell off my 10k btc :)
1261 2012-01-28 22:25:23 <gmaxwell> (the point at :17 even shows at 0.01 BTC fee. :) )
1262 2012-01-28 22:25:37 <gmaxwell> (and scratches out the paypal fee structure)
1263 2012-01-28 22:25:38 <occulta> i dont mine a tiny fee
1264 2012-01-28 22:25:39 <roconnor> occulta: probably a good idea
1265 2012-01-28 22:25:48 <occulta> but the possibility of people charging whatever they want in the future
1266 2012-01-28 22:25:54 <occulta> is against everything i like BTC for
1267 2012-01-28 22:26:05 <roconnor> occulta: you can optionally mine blocks yourself.
1268 2012-01-28 22:26:06 <gmaxwell> occulta: if you don't like the fees people are charging, then mine your own block.
1269 2012-01-28 22:26:14 <occulta> no
1270 2012-01-28 22:26:15 mcorlett has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1271 2012-01-28 22:26:18 <occulta> .
1272 2012-01-28 22:26:18 <gmaxwell> Okay.
1273 2012-01-28 22:26:24 <gmaxwell> Then don't?
1274 2012-01-28 22:26:36 <occulta> no i wont lol
1275 2012-01-28 22:26:45 <occulta> i want to use it as a currency
1276 2012-01-28 22:26:55 <occulta> i shouldnt have to dig the gold myself, to use the gold
1277 2012-01-28 22:27:23 * roconnor doesn't think currency's should be used as a store of value.
1278 2012-01-28 22:27:26 <gmaxwell> occulta: You shouldn't have to process transactions yourself in order to have your transactions processed for free?
1279 2012-01-28 22:27:27 <roconnor> *currencies
1280 2012-01-28 22:27:48 <occulta> gmaxwell: now we are talking about processing my transactions
1281 2012-01-28 22:27:53 <occulta> ive never heard of this before
1282 2012-01-28 22:27:55 <occulta> im sorry
1283 2012-01-28 22:28:02 <occulta> im neive, but i believe videos and articles
1284 2012-01-28 22:28:10 <roconnor> mining a block is primarily the processing of transactions
1285 2012-01-28 22:28:13 <gmaxwell> occulta: thats .. what mining does. It secures transactions against reversal.
1286 2012-01-28 22:28:14 <occulta> if everyone missed out the transactions fees, i cant be to blame
1287 2012-01-28 22:28:26 <occulta> then, its not a long term currency is it
1288 2012-01-28 22:28:30 <gmaxwell> If you and your recipents don't care about the txn being secured against reversal you don't have to have them mined... I suppose.
1289 2012-01-28 22:28:30 <roconnor> occulta: I agree the media is somewhat misleading
1290 2012-01-28 22:28:39 <occulta> people mine coins to make money
1291 2012-01-28 22:28:44 <occulta> not for love
1292 2012-01-28 22:28:44 <occulta> cmon
1293 2012-01-28 22:28:49 <gmaxwell> I mine for love.
1294 2012-01-28 22:28:59 <occulta> ppl are getting 50btc for a block
1295 2012-01-28 22:29:18 <occulta> you think ppl will charge 0.0005 btc for that block in 50years?
1296 2012-01-28 22:29:19 <occulta> whatever lol
1297 2012-01-28 22:29:46 <roconnor> occulta: if there are 100000 transaction per block, then probably
1298 2012-01-28 22:29:51 <occulta> rather 140years or however long it is
1299 2012-01-28 22:29:52 <gmaxwell> occulta: if 0.0005 BTC is worth a lot then, then they'll charge much less. Depends on how much competition there is for space in blocks.
1300 2012-01-28 22:30:15 <occulta> excuse my attitude, im slightly annoyed :P
1301 2012-01-28 22:30:29 <occulta> so, how can i send btc from my client with 0.00000 fees
1302 2012-01-28 22:30:34 <gmaxwell> A year ago the anti-DOS fee was 0.01 BTC, it was lowered to the current level.
1303 2012-01-28 22:30:36 <occulta> because i am atm
1304 2012-01-28 22:30:38 <roconnor> it's understandable; I agree with you.
1305 2012-01-28 22:30:53 <occulta> i know its no 9% like PP
1306 2012-01-28 22:30:57 <gmaxwell> occulta: Yes, most transactions have zero fees.
1307 2012-01-28 22:31:08 <occulta> so what about my daemon ?
1308 2012-01-28 22:31:17 <occulta> set the variable like i said?
1309 2012-01-28 22:31:24 <gmaxwell> The only time the software will automatically add a fee is when other nodes wouldn't forward your transaction because it looks objectively like a DOS attack.
1310 2012-01-28 22:31:32 <occulta> for example, i am testing some functionatlity of my payment system,
1311 2012-01-28 22:31:37 <occulta> sending btc to and fro
1312 2012-01-28 22:31:39 <occulta> i dont want to pay for it each time ...
1313 2012-01-28 22:31:45 <gmaxwell> occulta: then use testnet.
1314 2012-01-28 22:31:56 <gmaxwell> You should be using testnet for testing.
1315 2012-01-28 22:31:58 graingert has joined
1316 2012-01-28 22:32:07 <occulta> never heard of it
1317 2012-01-28 22:32:32 <roconnor> O_o
1318 2012-01-28 22:32:35 <gmaxwell> occulta: also, to avoid fees you should just work with wallets that have a bunch of older inputs. Then your activity will not look like a DOS attack.
1319 2012-01-28 22:32:58 <gmaxwell> (and if it doesn't look like a dos attack the client won't automagically add fees.
1320 2012-01-28 22:33:01 <gmaxwell> )
1321 2012-01-28 22:33:14 titeuf_87 has joined
1322 2012-01-28 22:33:34 <occulta> maybe ill just deal with it
1323 2012-01-28 22:33:34 <occulta> so the default paytxfee setting, is the lowest?
1324 2012-01-28 22:34:39 <gmaxwell> Yes, the default is 0. That means it won't pay any fees unless it believes the network will misidentify the txn as a dos attack, in which case it will add a small fee.
1325 2012-01-28 22:34:53 <occulta> right, so i got done :P
1326 2012-01-28 22:35:04 <occulta> if i put a few 100 btc in the wallet would that help ?
1327 2012-01-28 22:35:59 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas reorder * r5c8829c17bc0 cgminer/main.c: Fix misdefine. http://tinyurl.com/78b42wc
1328 2012-01-28 22:36:11 <gmaxwell> Yes, it should. if your input is more than 144 btc then it should be respendable without a fee when it just has 1 confirm.
1329 2012-01-28 22:36:32 <gmaxwell> occulta: ooorr.. you should use testnet.
1330 2012-01-28 22:36:34 <occulta> ok gmaxwell thanks
1331 2012-01-28 22:36:42 <occulta> i am reading :)
1332 2012-01-28 22:37:01 <occulta> so far its going well
1333 2012-01-28 22:37:09 <occulta> ive got the script taking deposits in BTC
1334 2012-01-28 22:37:14 <occulta> and almost withdrawls too
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1349 2012-01-28 23:02:00 <graingert> tcatm: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/issues/15
1350 2012-01-28 23:02:16 <graingert> tcatm: you think gavin stopped sigining release notices?
1351 2012-01-28 23:02:23 <graingert> signing*
1352 2012-01-28 23:02:52 <tcatm> yes. Well, I only copy those announcements when I get signed emails.
1353 2012-01-28 23:03:53 <graingert> well people should check the client against those hashes
1354 2012-01-28 23:03:58 <graingert> if they can
1355 2012-01-28 23:04:20 <graingert> and currently the hashes are not visible or signed
1356 2012-01-28 23:08:36 datagutt has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1357 2012-01-28 23:11:50 <luke-jr> graingert: Gavin didn't participate (as much) in the latest stable releases (0.4.x and 0.5.2)
1358 2012-01-28 23:11:59 <luke-jr> graingert: I think I signed them though?
1359 2012-01-28 23:13:05 <gruez> ok, i got ubuntu running
1360 2012-01-28 23:13:07 wirehead has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1361 2012-01-28 23:13:08 <BlueMatt> no offense luke but the sigs should always be coming form the same person
1362 2012-01-28 23:13:16 <gruez> what are the packages i should install?
1363 2012-01-28 23:13:17 <BlueMatt> s/person/key/
1364 2012-01-28 23:13:51 <graingert> well it needs the gitian sigs
1365 2012-01-28 23:13:57 <graingert> does that work yet?
1366 2012-01-28 23:14:09 <graingert> is that the main build process?
1367 2012-01-28 23:14:13 <BlueMatt> what needs the gitian sigs?
1368 2012-01-28 23:14:26 <BlueMatt> yea, but no one downloads using gitian (yet)
1369 2012-01-28 23:14:34 <BlueMatt> thats next on my todo
1370 2012-01-28 23:14:49 <BlueMatt> (after cblockstore, getting win32 clients to autoupdate using gitian)
1371 2012-01-28 23:15:50 <graingert> well it should have a bunch of sigs preferably
1372 2012-01-28 23:16:16 <BlueMatt> gitian doesnt sign the tars, it signs the individual files
1373 2012-01-28 23:16:40 <graingert> it would be useful if it also signs the tars and exe's
1374 2012-01-28 23:16:48 <BlueMatt> gitian doesnt make tars
1375 2012-01-28 23:17:14 <graingert> is tar production deterministic?
1376 2012-01-28 23:17:25 <BlueMatt> it has timestamps, at least...
1377 2012-01-28 23:17:30 <BlueMatt> but thats not hard to fix
1378 2012-01-28 23:18:11 <graingert> luke-jr: can you add your signature to a fork of bitcoin.org and send a pull request?
1379 2012-01-28 23:18:21 <graingert> or paste it and I'll handle it
1380 2012-01-28 23:18:25 <graingert> so we can see how it looks
1381 2012-01-28 23:18:56 <BlueMatt> the sigs all need to come from one key if they are gonna be published on bitcoin.org
1382 2012-01-28 23:19:03 <graingert> not really
1383 2012-01-28 23:19:06 <BlueMatt> that will just confuse people if they start coming from one of 10 people
1384 2012-01-28 23:19:09 <graingert> as long as they are all in the web of trust
1385 2012-01-28 23:19:13 <BlueMatt> people dont want to keep up with all the list of devs
1386 2012-01-28 23:19:23 <BlueMatt> nor do they want to sit down and figure out who signed who or what
1387 2012-01-28 23:19:50 <BlueMatt> also, afaik luke didnt build as he hates gitian
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1392 2012-01-28 23:20:57 <graingert> BlueMatt: tbh the bitcoin.org site should be avail over ssl
1393 2012-01-28 23:21:21 <BlueMatt> its possible but the url you have to use is something_odd.github.com
1394 2012-01-28 23:21:28 <BlueMatt> but yea it should
1395 2012-01-28 23:21:33 <BlueMatt> do you want to pay for the bw?
1396 2012-01-28 23:22:07 <graingert> ah it's a github site
1397 2012-01-28 23:22:14 <graingert> dang
1398 2012-01-28 23:22:19 <BlueMatt> iirc tcatm has talked to the github people about ssl
1399 2012-01-28 23:22:28 dr_win has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1400 2012-01-28 23:23:03 <graingert> I see
1401 2012-01-28 23:23:32 <tcatm> I haven't. I think gavin did but that was concerning download urls and I think we are still using sf because of that.
1402 2012-01-28 23:23:45 dr_win has joined
1403 2012-01-28 23:23:52 <BlueMatt> does sf have ssl dls?
1404 2012-01-28 23:24:12 <BlueMatt> answer: no
1405 2012-01-28 23:24:32 <BlueMatt> anyway, someone has talked to the github people about ssl I thought
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1408 2012-01-28 23:32:22 <graingert> !later tell gavinanderson it would be useful to have the tar/installer signatures on the bitcoin.org website
1409 2012-01-28 23:32:22 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
1410 2012-01-28 23:43:30 <gruez> Package libdb4.8++-dev is not available, but is referred to by another package. This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source E: Package 'libdb4.8++-dev' has no installation candidate
1411 2012-01-28 23:43:33 <gruez> what do i do?
1412 2012-01-28 23:43:41 <gruez> on ubuntu 64 bit
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1414 2012-01-28 23:44:45 <graingert> gruez: hmm, what's the command you ran?
1415 2012-01-28 23:45:01 <graingert> are you trying to load off of bluematt's repo, and what version of ubuntu are you on?
1416 2012-01-28 23:45:20 <gruez> graingert: was following instructions
1417 2012-01-28 23:45:27 <BlueMatt> gruez: apt-add-repository ppa:bitcoin/bitcoin
1418 2012-01-28 23:45:37 <BlueMatt> gruez: then apt-get update; apt-get install libdb4.8++-dev
1419 2012-01-28 23:45:42 <gruez> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/readme-qt.rst
1420 2012-01-28 23:45:43 <gruez> ok
1421 2012-01-28 23:45:45 <gruez> thanks
1422 2012-01-28 23:45:50 <BlueMatt> actually you dont need that if you are just compiling for win32
1423 2012-01-28 23:45:55 <BlueMatt> if you are compiling for linux you need that
1424 2012-01-28 23:45:57 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r1865a01a2bbd cgminer/configure.ac: Make bitforce support default to disabled. http://tinyurl.com/6ohtup9
1425 2012-01-28 23:46:01 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r49e35799d227 cgminer/README: README updates. http://tinyurl.com/6nq4v4e
1426 2012-01-28 23:48:01 <luke-jr> graingert: huh? sign what?
1427 2012-01-28 23:48:02 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1428 2012-01-28 23:48:31 <BlueMatt> the released tar.gzs
1429 2012-01-28 23:48:36 <BlueMatt> and zips and exes, etc
1430 2012-01-28 23:49:37 <luke-jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/bitcoin-0.5.2/SHA256SUMS.asc
1431 2012-01-28 23:49:57 <luke-jr> (no, I didn't build them, but I trust BlueMatt+devrandom and Gavin who did)
1432 2012-01-28 23:50:16 <BlueMatt> the point is graingert wants the sigs on the main page of bitcoin.org
1433 2012-01-28 23:50:20 <BlueMatt> (which is a valid point)
1434 2012-01-28 23:50:40 <BlueMatt> my point was that all the versions should be signed by the same key
1435 2012-01-28 23:51:08 <luke-jr> shrug
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1437 2012-01-28 23:51:21 <luke-jr> that's up to Gavin then, if he wants to sign it
1438 2012-01-28 23:51:31 <BlueMatt> I could have sworn he did...
1439 2012-01-28 23:51:33 <BlueMatt> oh well
1440 2012-01-28 23:51:48 <luke-jr> he never bothered to before
1441 2012-01-28 23:51:55 <BlueMatt> maybe it was 0.5.1 that he forgot and did it later
1442 2012-01-28 23:51:59 <BlueMatt> he normally does
1443 2012-01-28 23:52:08 <BlueMatt> ie did on all releases pre-0.4 iirc
1444 2012-01-28 23:52:26 <luke-jr> only when they're from git master I think
1445 2012-01-28 23:52:43 <BlueMatt> yea, but isnt 0.5.2 the only one that was the latest version not on git master?
1446 2012-01-28 23:52:55 wirehead has joined
1447 2012-01-28 23:53:09 <luke-jr> yeah, mostly by accident I think