1 2012-01-29 00:02:10 <graingert> for a security app it's really bad not to have it
   2 2012-01-29 00:02:27 <luke-jr> graingert: well, you got my sig. if you want to put it on .org, you handle it
   3 2012-01-29 00:04:46 erle- has quit (Quit: erle-)
   4 2012-01-29 00:05:56 marf_away has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
   5 2012-01-29 00:06:01 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r995b6dc892ff cgminer/configure.ac: Make bitforce off not compile bitforce.c properly. http://tinyurl.com/6oh7r2p
   6 2012-01-29 00:06:24 torsthaldo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
   7 2012-01-29 00:06:37 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
   8 2012-01-29 00:07:34 <graingert> luke-jr: cool
   9 2012-01-29 00:07:47 Nicksasa has quit (Read error: No route to host)
  10 2012-01-29 00:08:37 torsthaldo has joined
  11 2012-01-29 00:09:24 theorb has joined
  12 2012-01-29 00:09:26 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  13 2012-01-29 00:09:35 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
  14 2012-01-29 00:09:55 Turingi has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  15 2012-01-29 00:10:16 graingert has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  16 2012-01-29 00:10:21 JZavala has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  17 2012-01-29 00:10:42 wasabi2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  18 2012-01-29 00:11:22 roconnor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  19 2012-01-29 00:11:39 pickett has joined
  20 2012-01-29 00:14:37 ovidiusoft has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  21 2012-01-29 00:14:38 dwon has joined
  22 2012-01-29 00:15:59 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * ra3d90f84e259 cgminer/ocl.c: Default to poclbm kernel on Tahiti (7970) since phatk does not work, even though performance is sub-standard so that at least it will mine successfully by default. http://tinyurl.com/7hbfxm4
  23 2012-01-29 00:20:34 occulta has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
  24 2012-01-29 00:23:29 traviscj has joined
  25 2012-01-29 00:25:31 titeuf_87 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  26 2012-01-29 00:26:37 <CIA-97> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * rd93ab36 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Add another exception handler due to change in Jackson - http://git.io/IqzhNg https://github.com/Diablo-D3/DiabloMiner/commit/d93ab36680e63f519c0dfb9f4403b3a522c4448e
  27 2012-01-29 00:26:38 <CIA-97> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r1805565 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Emit kernel arguments in order of use - http://git.io/JGSWyQ https://github.com/Diablo-D3/DiabloMiner/commit/180556594e873b97d662d436c1cc7affa1a7c527
  28 2012-01-29 00:34:11 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  29 2012-01-29 00:44:17 <gruez> so what do i do
  30 2012-01-29 00:44:24 <gruez> if i want to compile for windows on ubuntu?
  31 2012-01-29 00:44:55 <BlueMatt> you are going to want to use gitian (its probably the easiest)
  32 2012-01-29 00:45:21 <BlueMatt> read doc/release-process.txt under the gitian builds section
  33 2012-01-29 00:47:53 <gruez> is there any packages i should install before building?
  34 2012-01-29 00:48:07 <BlueMatt> nope, actually
  35 2012-01-29 00:48:14 <BlueMatt> gitian will build in a vm and deal with packages for you
  36 2012-01-29 00:48:28 <BlueMatt> oh, wait, no you need apt-cacher or apt-cacher-ng
  37 2012-01-29 00:48:38 <BlueMatt> and I guess ruby iirc?
  38 2012-01-29 00:48:57 <BlueMatt> I think thats what gitian is written in
  39 2012-01-29 00:53:00 Nicksasa has joined
  40 2012-01-29 00:55:05 <gruez> BlueMatt: nice, thanks!
  41 2012-01-29 00:55:35 <BlueMatt> gruez: look at https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder
  42 2012-01-29 00:55:39 <BlueMatt> for instructions on gitian
  43 2012-01-29 00:56:10 underscor has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  44 2012-01-29 00:56:36 underscor has joined
  45 2012-01-29 00:56:45 mizerydearia has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  46 2012-01-29 01:20:58 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * rae044ec31ea6 cgminer/NEWS: Update NEWS. http://tinyurl.com/7xabb5w
  47 2012-01-29 01:20:59 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r09ea6bd21a53 cgminer/ (NEWS configure.ac): Bump version number up 2.2.0 http://tinyurl.com/6wplpjc
  48 2012-01-29 01:24:15 sgstair has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  49 2012-01-29 01:27:11 sgstair has joined
  50 2012-01-29 01:29:33 _sgstair has joined
  51 2012-01-29 01:29:33 sgstair has quit (Disconnected by services)
  52 2012-01-29 01:29:34 _sgstair is now known as sgstair
  53 2012-01-29 01:35:25 booo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  54 2012-01-29 01:39:44 rdponticelli_ has joined
  55 2012-01-29 01:40:58 rdponticelli has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  56 2012-01-29 01:42:20 rdponticelli_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  57 2012-01-29 01:43:30 hexTech has joined
  58 2012-01-29 01:43:59 gruez has quit (Quit: Page closed)
  59 2012-01-29 01:44:33 rdponticelli has joined
  60 2012-01-29 01:45:44 SomeoneWeirdzzzz is now known as SomeoneWeird
  61 2012-01-29 01:46:32 <splatster> etotheipi_: trying to run on ubuntu 11.10 getting "Cpp is not defined nameerror"
  62 2012-01-29 01:49:50 <etotheipi_> splatster, was there an earlier error about failing to import CppBlockUtils?
  63 2012-01-29 01:50:02 <splatster> ya something like that
  64 2012-01-29 01:51:00 <etotheipi_> sooo, there's a cryptopp/crypto++ linking issue
  65 2012-01-29 01:51:19 <etotheipi_> it always gets the wrong library... I'm hoping I can fix this with a cmake build system
  66 2012-01-29 01:51:25 <luke-jr> except that we haven't used crypto++ in months
  67 2012-01-29 01:51:47 <luke-jr> or you mean another client?
  68 2012-01-29 01:51:48 <luke-jr> <.<
  69 2012-01-29 01:51:50 <etotheipi_> I don't why the two libraries exist and always get mixed up differently on different systems
  70 2012-01-29 01:52:19 <splatster> ok so what do i do?
  71 2012-01-29 01:52:22 <luke-jr> IIRC, libcrypto++ has a questionable license :P
  72 2012-01-29 01:52:44 <etotheipi_> instead of libcryptopp?
  73 2012-01-29 01:53:06 <luke-jr> yeah, crypto++ isn't licensed for even distribution
  74 2012-01-29 01:53:28 <splatster> etotheipi_: What is the remedy for this problem?
  75 2012-01-29 01:53:31 <etotheipi_> most of crypto<plus><plus> is public domain
  76 2012-01-29 01:53:40 <etotheipi_> splatster, I actually have 11.0 open right now in VM, too
  77 2012-01-29 01:53:50 <etotheipi_> I think there's a simple export command... hold on
  78 2012-01-29 01:54:25 <luke-jr> etotheipi_: not all
  79 2012-01-29 01:56:15 roconnor has joined
  80 2012-01-29 01:59:05 <etotheipi_> splatster, I'm not sure why there's a problem, my default 11.10 install has both libcryptopp and libcrypto++
  81 2012-01-29 01:59:11 <etotheipi_> but mine fails to load, as well
  82 2012-01-29 02:01:11 <splatster> "TheBDM = Cpp.BlockDataManager().getBDM()  NameError: name 'Cpp' is not defined"
  83 2012-01-29 02:02:12 <etotheipi_> splatster... open a python shell in the BitcoinArmory directory and type "import CppBlockUtils"
  84 2012-01-29 02:04:08 <splatster> well my vm just spazzed out
  85 2012-01-29 02:04:13 wasabi1 has joined
  86 2012-01-29 02:05:10 <splatster> ImportError
  87 2012-01-29 02:06:39 b4epoche_ has joined
  88 2012-01-29 02:06:47 <etotheipi_> splatster, I'm looking at it, now
  89 2012-01-29 02:07:38 <etotheipi_> btw, did you do the "make swig" step?
  90 2012-01-29 02:07:43 <splatster> ya
  91 2012-01-29 02:07:50 <etotheipi_> okay, just making sure :)
  92 2012-01-29 02:08:19 b4epoche has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  93 2012-01-29 02:08:19 b4epoche_ is now known as b4epoche
  94 2012-01-29 02:10:53 <etotheipi_> damnit... I can't get it to work with any library...
  95 2012-01-29 02:11:05 <etotheipi_> is sipa here?
  96 2012-01-29 02:11:05 <luke-jr> crypto++ and cryptopp are the same thing
  97 2012-01-29 02:11:30 <splatster> I have to go for a bit
  98 2012-01-29 02:11:31 <etotheipi_> luke-jr, there are two separate libararies, (don't ask me why), some systems have one some have the other
  99 2012-01-29 02:11:37 <splatster> tell me what happens
 100 2012-01-29 02:11:45 splatster is now known as splatster|away
 101 2012-01-29 02:11:46 <etotheipi_> in the past I've resolved the problem by switching to the other
 102 2012-01-29 02:12:23 <etotheipi_> and I actually see both on my 11.10 /usr/lib dir... but my compiler-fu is not strong enough to resolve this
 103 2012-01-29 02:12:37 shazooun has joined
 104 2012-01-29 02:14:43 mizerydearia has joined
 105 2012-01-29 02:21:40 <sipa> etotheipi_: now i am
 106 2012-01-29 02:34:51 dissipate_ has joined
 107 2012-01-29 02:36:24 Nicksasa has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 108 2012-01-29 02:36:57 <etotheipi_> sipa, you had run Armory, and said there was a library issue (libcryptopp/++)
 109 2012-01-29 02:37:15 <etotheipi_> I'm seeing that now, but I'm not very good with the linking/library stuff to re-figure out how to fix it
 110 2012-01-29 02:37:23 <sipa> what's the error?
 111 2012-01-29 02:37:46 <etotheipi_> loading the module, it claims "undefined symbol: ..."
 112 2012-01-29 02:37:54 Nicksasa has joined
 113 2012-01-29 02:38:01 <etotheipi_> which would normally come from, I presume, the libcryptopp.so or libcrypto++.so
 114 2012-01-29 02:38:15 <etotheipi_> but I have both in /usr/lib
 115 2012-01-29 02:38:25 <sipa> oh yes the python code simply didn't load that library
 116 2012-01-29 02:38:30 <sipa> so linking of you Cpp lib failed
 117 2012-01-29 02:38:46 <sipa> no idea how python is supposed to deal with these problems
 118 2012-01-29 02:39:01 <etotheipi_> we're talking about runtime/dynamic linking, right?
 119 2012-01-29 02:39:13 <sipa> yes
 120 2012-01-29 02:39:19 <etotheipi_> because I keep wondering if I should just statically link the library into the app
 121 2012-01-29 02:40:13 <sipa> that's a possibility
 122 2012-01-29 02:40:14 <etotheipi_> but regardless of static-vs-dynamic... you had done something to make sure it loads the right library
 123 2012-01-29 02:40:21 <etotheipi_> do you remember what it was?
 124 2012-01-29 02:41:13 <sipa> i preloaded it
 125 2012-01-29 02:41:20 <sipa> LD_PRELOAD=...
 126 2012-01-29 02:41:29 <sipa> but that definitely not the correct solution
 127 2012-01-29 02:42:49 <shazooun> http://www.google.com/trends/?q=bitcoin,napster&ctab=0&geo=all&date=ytd&sort=0
 128 2012-01-29 02:43:49 <etotheipi_> unfortunately, all this linking stuff is not my forte... that's why static linking is enticing... I know I can figure that out
 129 2012-01-29 02:47:08 <luke-jr> done something = avoid crypto++
 130 2012-01-29 02:47:32 <sipa> crypto++ is really just a bunch of public-domain source files bundles
 131 2012-01-29 02:47:44 <sipa> just take the ones you need, and put them in your source code :)
 132 2012-01-29 02:47:57 <luke-jr> so wait, is Armory Python or C? <.<
 133 2012-01-29 02:48:01 <etotheipi_> have you looked through the source code?  it's pretty... intense
 134 2012-01-29 02:48:04 <sipa> Python and C++
 135 2012-01-29 02:48:14 <luke-jr> sipa: not quite. some are straight copyright
 136 2012-01-29 02:48:23 <etotheipi_> I actually used to use a pure-python ECDSA
 137 2012-01-29 02:48:29 <etotheipi_> it worked, but WAAAY too slow
 138 2012-01-29 02:48:30 <sipa> ok, you need to check the individial files of course
 139 2012-01-29 02:48:33 <etotheipi_> luke-jr, I'm looking this up now
 140 2012-01-29 02:48:51 <etotheipi_> it's fairly explicit that the source files are public domain
 141 2012-01-29 02:48:55 <luke-jr> etotheipi_: maybe GnuTLS or libgcrypt?
 142 2012-01-29 02:49:40 <luke-jr> etotheipi_: 3way, cast, seal, des, diamond, md2, md4, md5, md5mac, rc6, rijndael, skipjack, square, safer, and twofish are PD
 143 2012-01-29 02:49:50 <luke-jr> mars is unlicensed
 144 2012-01-29 02:50:08 <luke-jr> nfc where ECDSA fits into those
 145 2012-01-29 02:50:23 <etotheipi_> luke-jr, do you have a reference?
 146 2012-01-29 02:50:27 <luke-jr> and for more fun, PD isn't legal in some countries
 147 2012-01-29 02:50:34 <luke-jr> etotheipi_: Gentoo makes licenses easy.
 148 2012-01-29 02:50:57 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas debug * r622788563777 cgminer/ (9 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into debug http://tinyurl.com/6mlsvkc
 149 2012-01-29 02:51:44 <luke-jr> http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/licenses/cryptopp?view=markup
 150 2012-01-29 02:51:44 <etotheipi_> crap... I completely forgot about crypto-algorithm export
 151 2012-01-29 02:52:08 <sipa> ?
 152 2012-01-29 02:52:20 <etotheipi_> anyone know anything about the export laws on crypto-algorithms?
 153 2012-01-29 02:52:58 <etotheipi_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptography#Export_controls
 154 2012-01-29 02:53:04 <etotheipi_> (I don't know why I ask when I can just google it)
 155 2012-01-29 02:53:52 <sipa> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_in_the_United_States#Current_status
 156 2012-01-29 02:55:13 <etotheipi_> For instance, the BIS must be notified before open-source cryptographic software is made publicly available on the Internet, though no review is required
 157 2012-01-29 02:55:38 <roconnor> luke-jr: under US law, open source licenses can be revoked after 35 years.
 158 2012-01-29 02:55:55 <roconnor> well, not just open source liecenses
 159 2012-01-29 02:55:59 <roconnor> any licenses
 160 2012-01-29 02:59:04 <luke-jr> roconnor: O.o
 161 2012-01-29 02:59:19 <luke-jr> as in, full copyright status again?
 162 2012-01-29 02:59:26 <roconnor> yep
 163 2012-01-29 02:59:27 <luke-jr> or just the copyright (and therefore copyleft) expires?
 164 2012-01-29 02:59:28 <roconnor> http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap2.html#203
 165 2012-01-29 02:59:30 <luke-jr> wtf
 166 2012-01-29 02:59:49 <roconnor> after the 35 years you have 5 years to register to reclaim your copyright
 167 2012-01-29 03:00:01 <roconnor> or something like that
 168 2012-01-29 03:00:12 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: authentication software is broadly excluded by EAR and doesn't need the ECCN dance.
 169 2012-01-29 03:00:12 <roconnor> oh, and the work has to be made after 1978
 170 2012-01-29 03:00:27 <luke-jr> roconnor: looks difficult
 171 2012-01-29 03:00:30 <roconnor> etotheipi_: Ya, I was about to say, there is no encryption in bitcoin anyways
 172 2012-01-29 03:00:49 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: so, e.g. so long as the cryptographic stuff in your commercial software was only used for authentication (as is the care for bitcoin) you wouldn't need anything even if you weren't OSS.
 173 2012-01-29 03:00:49 <luke-jr> roconnor: they have to notify each person in writing…
 174 2012-01-29 03:00:56 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r83a836765432 cgminer/adl.c: Linux's ADL uses a busnumber in descending order for devices so enumerate them in the opposite order to windows. http://tinyurl.com/6mk63jw
 175 2012-01-29 03:01:13 <roconnor> luke-jr: would notifying Sun be adequate?
 176 2012-01-29 03:01:28 <luke-jr> roconnor: hmm, I guess it would work against big companies
 177 2012-01-29 03:01:34 * luke-jr ponders
 178 2012-01-29 03:01:51 <luke-jr> whoever wrote the BSD networking stack should revoke the license from MS
 179 2012-01-29 03:01:54 <luke-jr> <.<
 180 2012-01-29 03:02:42 <gmaxwell> Microsoft includes copyright notices for the BSD stuff they include.
 181 2012-01-29 03:03:10 <roconnor> gmaxwell: that won't help with the licence is revoked
 182 2012-01-29 03:03:14 <roconnor> *when
 183 2012-01-29 03:06:26 <gmaxwell> roconnor: Nonsense, the tranfer termination doesn't apply to derivative works.
 184 2012-01-29 03:07:13 hexTech has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 185 2012-01-29 03:07:24 storrgie has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 186 2012-01-29 03:07:27 <roconnor> good point
 187 2012-01-29 03:07:42 <luke-jr> ooooooo
 188 2012-01-29 03:07:59 Sedra has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 189 2012-01-29 03:08:12 <gmaxwell> roconnor: you made me think for a second though!
 190 2012-01-29 03:08:34 josephcp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 191 2012-01-29 03:08:50 storrgie has joined
 192 2012-01-29 03:09:09 helo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 193 2012-01-29 03:09:09 phungi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 194 2012-01-29 03:09:10 josephcp has joined
 195 2012-01-29 03:09:21 <roconnor> gmaxwell: but at that the code can no longer be modified
 196 2012-01-29 03:09:31 <roconnor> BSD stack becomes frozen
 197 2012-01-29 03:09:38 Sedra has joined
 198 2012-01-29 03:09:44 <roconnor> well, the stack formally known as BSD
 199 2012-01-29 03:09:44 zeiris has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 200 2012-01-29 03:09:45 phungi has joined
 201 2012-01-29 03:09:48 helo has joined
 202 2012-01-29 03:10:17 zeiris has joined
 203 2012-01-29 03:10:19 wereHamster has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 204 2012-01-29 03:10:19 <gmaxwell> There is apparently an paper on this subject on SSRN (where most law review articles show up), that I don't remember reading: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1461859
 205 2012-01-29 03:10:54 wereHamster has joined
 206 2012-01-29 03:12:44 <roconnor> gmaxwell: actually it is a bit unclear to me
 207 2012-01-29 03:12:57 <roconnor> ``A derivative work prepared under authority of the grant before its termination may continue to be utilized under the terms of the grant after its termination
 208 2012-01-29 03:13:13 <roconnor> which I guess literally means that the derived code continues to be under the BSD
 209 2012-01-29 03:13:23 maqr has joined
 210 2012-01-29 03:13:24 maqr has quit (Changing host)
 211 2012-01-29 03:13:24 maqr has joined
 212 2012-01-29 03:13:59 <luke-jr> quick! be sure no work retains a single copyright holder for 35 years!
 213 2012-01-29 03:14:24 <roconnor> I'd like to see a court ruling to be clear
 214 2012-01-29 03:14:26 <roconnor> :P
 215 2012-01-29 03:14:57 <gmaxwell> roconnor: the paper on SSRN seemes to advocate that congress should pass a law fixing this.. though it also suggests some judicial approaches that make it a non-issue.
 216 2012-01-29 03:17:27 <etotheipi_> luke-jr, that link you sent me shows that everything in the Crypto++ library is public domain, except for maybe mars.cpp
 217 2012-01-29 03:18:21 <gmaxwell> MARS.. been a while since I heard of that.. poor AES losers.
 218 2012-01-29 03:18:31 <luke-jr> roconnor: …beginning at the end of thirty-five years __from the date of execution of the grant__…
 219 2012-01-29 03:18:47 <luke-jr> execution for free software licenses is the first time YOU copy it, right?
 220 2012-01-29 03:18:49 <gmaxwell> I liked the mixing rounds in mars a lot.
 221 2012-01-29 03:19:45 <roconnor> I don't know; is the execution the time you make the licence?
 222 2012-01-29 03:20:07 <roconnor> what is 1978 + 35 years?
 223 2012-01-29 03:20:17 <sipa> 2013
 224 2012-01-29 03:20:43 <roconnor> I need to tell my academic friends to start reverting their licences on thier academic papes
 225 2012-01-29 03:20:45 <roconnor> *papers
 226 2012-01-29 03:20:54 <roconnor> next year
 227 2012-01-29 03:21:04 <roconnor> thought I guess notices can be sent out today
 228 2012-01-29 03:22:14 <gmaxwell> It would be fun to write boiler plate notices to sending to elsevier.
 229 2012-01-29 03:22:22 <sipa> roconnor: not sure whether academic publications are  license or a transfer of copyright itself
 230 2012-01-29 03:22:39 <roconnor> sipa: it's a transfer, but the same law applies IIRC
 231 2012-01-29 03:22:42 <gmaxwell> sipa: both can be terminated, in fact. They're not works for hire, for sure.
 232 2012-01-29 03:22:58 <roconnor> In the case of any work other than a work made for hire, the exclusive or nonexclusive grant of a transfer or license of copyright or of any right under a copyright, executed by the author on or after January 1, 1978, otherwise than by will, is subject to termination under the following conditions
 233 2012-01-29 03:23:28 <gmaxwell> cool. Then we can count on elsevier to pay for the lobbying required to correct the law before it's an issue for free software.
 234 2012-01-29 03:23:32 <sipa> interesting
 235 2012-01-29 03:24:14 <roconnor> gmaxwell: the music labels will do it.  There are still a few songs that get quite a bit of play from 1978
 236 2012-01-29 03:25:12 <sipa> gmaxwell: will you and Elsevier agree on what the necessary "correction" is?
 237 2012-01-29 03:25:32 [7] has quit (Disconnected by services)
 238 2012-01-29 03:25:45 <gmaxwell> sipa: I think we can reach a compromise, yes.
 239 2012-01-29 03:26:10 TheSeven has joined
 240 2012-01-29 03:29:54 <shazooun> elsevier kickbacks to uni administrators
 241 2012-01-29 03:30:01 copumpkin is now known as Meowdog
 242 2012-01-29 03:30:12 Meowdog is now known as copumpkin
 243 2012-01-29 03:30:51 <gmaxwell> shazooun: I think if you could document that it would create controversy, considering how much universities pay for elsevier subscriptions.
 244 2012-01-29 03:31:05 <gmaxwell> (fun grass roots awareness raising: http://mako.cc/fun/overpricetags/ )
 245 2012-01-29 03:31:52 dissipate_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 246 2012-01-29 03:33:56 <shazooun> cool
 247 2012-01-29 03:36:10 JZavala has joined
 248 2012-01-29 03:37:03 <sipa> story about head of my former research group: http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/fos/newsletter/05-11-01.htm
 249 2012-01-29 03:45:28 <shazooun> Historical analysis of higher ed.: The growth in the ranks of administrators (85 percent) and associated professional staff (240 percent) has far outstripped the increase in faculty (51 percent) between 1975 and 2005.
 250 2012-01-29 03:46:06 <shazooun> administrators with budgetary authority, will naturally higher more administrators to consolidate/bolster their own power
 251 2012-01-29 03:53:37 Nicksasa has quit (Read error: No route to host)
 252 2012-01-29 03:54:45 user_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 253 2012-01-29 03:55:02 <roconnor> ;;bc,calcd 1100 8.8
 254 2012-01-29 03:55:03 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1100 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 8.8, is 9 hours, 32 minutes, and 39 seconds
 255 2012-01-29 03:55:05 Nicksasa has joined
 256 2012-01-29 04:00:49 jondoe has joined
 257 2012-01-29 04:03:18 <jondoe> I'm writing an application in Python. I'm storing values as Decimal and I want to send it with RPC to the bitcoin client
 258 2012-01-29 04:03:24 <jondoe> the problem is, I get an exception:
 259 2012-01-29 04:03:27 <jondoe> <type 'exceptions.TypeError'>, TypeError("Decimal('5') is not JSON serializable"
 260 2012-01-29 04:03:49 <jondoe> apparantly it wants the value as a real; how do I convert?
 261 2012-01-29 04:04:32 <etotheipi_> jondoe, probably something like decObj.to_integral()
 262 2012-01-29 04:05:01 <etotheipi_> wait, that rounds to an integer
 263 2012-01-29 04:05:38 <etotheipi_> jondoe,  you can just wrap it with float(decObj)
 264 2012-01-29 04:05:44 <etotheipi_> or int(decObj)
 265 2012-01-29 04:06:21 <shazooun> chillagua
 266 2012-01-29 04:06:42 <jondoe> wont I get rounding problem if I convert it to float?
 267 2012-01-29 04:09:18 <jondoe> oh, the rounding is too small?
 268 2012-01-29 04:09:25 <jondoe> for it to be a problem?
 269 2012-01-29 04:09:35 <sipa> you need to round it to a IEEE 754 double
 270 2012-01-29 04:09:44 <sipa> then you won't have precision problems
 271 2012-01-29 04:10:36 <jondoe> how do I convert it to a double?
 272 2012-01-29 04:10:46 <jondoe> i'm kind of new to python >.<
 273 2012-01-29 04:12:11 <roconnor> etotheipi_: armory doesn't appear to survive serious block reorganization
 274 2012-01-29 04:12:25 <roconnor> well it doesn't seem to behave properly
 275 2012-01-29 04:12:48 <roconnor> oh wait
 276 2012-01-29 04:12:50 <roconnor> nevermind
 277 2012-01-29 04:12:51 <etotheipi_> how so?  I have a re-rog unittest
 278 2012-01-29 04:12:56 <roconnor> my bad
 279 2012-01-29 04:13:00 <etotheipi_> it's been pretty heavily tested
 280 2012-01-29 04:13:18 <roconnor> sorry
 281 2012-01-29 04:13:32 <etotheipi_> ...though I haven't tested zero-conf transaction handling after a reorg
 282 2012-01-29 04:13:59 <etotheipi_> fwhew!
 283 2012-01-29 04:15:43 <roconnor> ;;bc,calcd 1100 0.125
 284 2012-01-29 04:15:44 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1100 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 0.125, is 8 minutes and 8 seconds
 285 2012-01-29 04:16:31 <jondoe> How large is the testnet blockchain?
 286 2012-01-29 04:16:38 <etotheipi_> about 45k blocks
 287 2012-01-29 04:16:52 <etotheipi_> ~ 30 MB
 288 2012-01-29 04:17:03 <sipa> etotheipi_: is python float a double?
 289 2012-01-29 04:17:03 <gmaxwell> takes a long time to validate though, I guess because of stupid transactions.
 290 2012-01-29 04:17:23 <etotheipi_> sipa, there is no distinction in python... though I don't know which one they use
 291 2012-01-29 04:17:33 <etotheipi_> I would have to assume, if they have one, they would pick double
 292 2012-01-29 04:18:25 Fnar has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 293 2012-01-29 04:18:33 <etotheipi_> I just checked, it's double
 294 2012-01-29 04:19:22 <etotheipi_> that's pretty cool:  sys.float_info
 295 2012-01-29 04:19:40 <etotheipi_> >>> sys.float_info
 296 2012-01-29 04:19:40 <etotheipi_> sys.floatinfo(max=1.7976931348623157e+308, max_exp=1024, max_10_exp=308, min=2.2250738585072014e-308, min_exp=-1021, min_10_exp=-307, dig=15, mant_dig=53, epsilon=2.2204460492503131e-16, radix=2, rounds=1)
 297 2012-01-29 04:19:57 <jondoe> neato
 298 2012-01-29 04:19:58 <jondoe> thanks
 299 2012-01-29 04:20:28 RobinPKR_ has joined
 300 2012-01-29 04:20:29 <jondoe> with that detailed information I might as well add an assertion as well
 301 2012-01-29 04:20:58 <shazooun> cools
 302 2012-01-29 04:21:12 <sipa> you need 52 bits of precision :)
 303 2012-01-29 04:21:22 splatster is now known as away!~splatster@unaffiliated/splatster|splatster
 304 2012-01-29 04:21:35 <etotheipi_> >>> sys.byteorder
 305 2012-01-29 04:21:35 <etotheipi_> 'little'
 306 2012-01-29 04:21:42 <etotheipi_> I love python :)
 307 2012-01-29 04:21:47 <splatster> etotheipi_: So what happened with it?
 308 2012-01-29 04:21:48 <sipa> i wonder if there is a VAX python
 309 2012-01-29 04:21:59 <sipa> and whether sys.byteorder says "braid-dead" there
 310 2012-01-29 04:22:01 <jondoe> i've never programmed python before this project, but I already love it
 311 2012-01-29 04:22:02 <shazooun> simplejson 2.1 and higher has native support for Decimal type
 312 2012-01-29 04:22:12 <sipa> *brain-dead
 313 2012-01-29 04:22:20 <jondoe> shazooun, ah nice
 314 2012-01-29 04:22:27 <etotheipi_> splatster, I might have a temp solution... but I really need to work out a better one
 315 2012-01-29 04:22:36 <etotheipi_> let me try the temp solution, so you can at least test it
 316 2012-01-29 04:22:58 <splatster> Ya, I'll test out your solution
 317 2012-01-29 04:23:01 RobinPKR has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 318 2012-01-29 04:23:01 RobinPKR_ is now known as RobinPKR
 319 2012-01-29 04:23:51 <roconnor> sipa: how come block explorer http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/b/1 claims this difficuly is 1/8th the difficulty of mainnet?
 320 2012-01-29 04:24:21 <etotheipi_> splatster
 321 2012-01-29 04:24:24 <sipa> because it is?
 322 2012-01-29 04:24:29 Fnar has joined
 323 2012-01-29 04:24:37 <splatster> etotheipi_: ya?
 324 2012-01-29 04:24:47 <etotheipi_> ack, can't copy from VM
 325 2012-01-29 04:25:04 <roconnor> sipa: but according my specs, testnet is 1/2 the difficulty of mainnet
 326 2012-01-29 04:25:08 <splatster> no, but I can type
 327 2012-01-29 04:25:16 <roconnor> oh wait
 328 2012-01-29 04:25:18 <roconnor> it is 1/8th
 329 2012-01-29 04:25:26 <splatster> hope it isn't too complicated
 330 2012-01-29 04:25:30 <etotheipi_> where you would normally type "python ArmoryQt.py --testnet", type "LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/libcrypto++.so python ArmoryQt.py --testnet
 331 2012-01-29 04:25:30 <roconnor> sorry
 332 2012-01-29 04:25:40 <etotheipi_> nope, quite easy actually
 333 2012-01-29 04:25:55 <sipa> roconnor: the difficulty scale is 1/2 (though i never found any evidence of that in the code)
 334 2012-01-29 04:26:03 <roconnor> ah
 335 2012-01-29 04:26:06 <splatster> why on testnet?
 336 2012-01-29 04:26:14 <etotheipi_> you can use regular net if you want
 337 2012-01-29 04:26:17 <roconnor> sipa: god, that is the most retarded thing ever
 338 2012-01-29 04:26:17 <sipa> roconnor: but the starting point is 1/8 now (i believe that was done when testnet was reset in 0.3.21 or so)
 339 2012-01-29 04:26:18 <etotheipi_> just remove the tag
 340 2012-01-29 04:26:24 <roconnor> oh
 341 2012-01-29 04:29:03 <splatster> It worked!
 342 2012-01-29 04:29:25 <etotheipi_> excellent... now I just gotta figure out how to prepare it to find that library automatically
 343 2012-01-29 04:29:58 <etotheipi_> maybe sipa can help:  I see these libraries in /usr/lib... in fact both libcrypto++ and libcryptopp... it works when I preload either of them
 344 2012-01-29 04:30:17 <etotheipi_> do I modify something in the make file to make this work?
 345 2012-01-29 04:31:00 <sipa> no idea, really
 346 2012-01-29 04:31:37 <etotheipi_> gah... I don't know this stuff very well
 347 2012-01-29 04:36:36 <splatster> etotheipi_: Someone needs to make an LiveCD with Armory preinstalled
 348 2012-01-29 04:37:23 <etotheipi_> splatster, I will need to implement more of the "ethereal" features... like managing wallets and addresses without ever touching the harddrive
 349 2012-01-29 04:37:53 <splatster> It's at an amazing state for an alpha build
 350 2012-01-29 04:38:01 <etotheipi_> splatster, thanks :)
 351 2012-01-29 04:39:13 <etotheipi_> indeed... it is quite usable... I've even finally convinced myself to trust the offline wallets for significant money
 352 2012-01-29 04:40:00 <etotheipi_> see the bottom of the page under the heading "I'm Scared!": http://bitcoinarmory.com/index.php/using-offline-wallets-in-armory
 353 2012-01-29 04:40:47 <splatster> Once this goes stable I'm going to make a an offline wallet using this, but I would need to be able to use armory on my Mac
 354 2012-01-29 04:41:05 <etotheipi_> right
 355 2012-01-29 04:41:33 <etotheipi_> in the near future, I'm going to make OSX a priority... but I need to find someone with an OSX machine I can hijack for a day or two
 356 2012-01-29 04:41:41 <etotheipi_> I never got OSX running in a VM
 357 2012-01-29 04:42:16 wirehead` has joined
 358 2012-01-29 04:42:24 <splatster> Maybe I can find you a copy of OS X server, which you can run in a VM.
 359 2012-01-29 04:42:53 <etotheipi_> maybe I just need a better tutorial for setting it up in a VM
 360 2012-01-29 04:43:00 <sipa> etotheipi_: you really made me ache for deterministic wallets in the satoshi client :)
 361 2012-01-29 04:43:31 <splatster> Normal OS X can't run in a VM, only OS X server.
 362 2012-01-29 04:43:45 <etotheipi_> sipa, I think I really made Armory for myself...
 363 2012-01-29 04:43:47 <splatster> (OS X Server will cost you a pretty penny.)
 364 2012-01-29 04:43:56 <etotheipi_> because there's nothing I wanted more than a solid, works-forever backup
 365 2012-01-29 04:44:03 <gmaxwell> sipa: not having them encourages people to do idiotic things like set keypool to 0 and import keys generated with stupid means.
 366 2012-01-29 04:44:03 <etotheipi_> and putting it on paper makes me even happier :)
 367 2012-01-29 04:44:17 <roconnor> what
 368 2012-01-29 04:44:22 <roconnor> what is coinbase script size?
 369 2012-01-29 04:44:28 <sipa> roconnor: 2-100 bytes
 370 2012-01-29 04:44:32 <roconnor> fuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
 371 2012-01-29 04:44:40 <roconnor> where does it say that?
 372 2012-01-29 04:45:09 <sipa>     if (IsCoinBase())
 373 2012-01-29 04:45:09 <sipa>     {
 374 2012-01-29 04:45:09 <sipa>         if (vin[0].scriptSig.size() < 2 || vin[0].scriptSig.size() > 100)
 375 2012-01-29 04:45:09 <sipa>             return DoS(100, error("CTransaction::CheckTransaction() : coinbase script size"));
 376 2012-01-29 04:45:12 <sipa>     }
 377 2012-01-29 04:45:37 <sipa> which, conveniently, also tells you the name of the class and method :)
 378 2012-01-29 04:45:53 <roconnor> can you put this in the wiki?
 379 2012-01-29 04:46:00 <roconnor> god damn it
 380 2012-01-29 04:46:29 <roconnor> oh it is there
 381 2012-01-29 04:46:32 <roconnor> damn it
 382 2012-01-29 04:46:50 <sipa> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_rules says so
 383 2012-01-29 04:46:58 <sipa> For the coinbase (first) transaction, scriptSig length must be 2-100
 384 2012-01-29 04:47:11 <etotheipi_> splatster, are you running it on the mainnet?
 385 2012-01-29 04:47:14 * roconnor cries
 386 2012-01-29 04:47:33 <splatster> etotheipi_: Ya my RAM is pretty much gone
 387 2012-01-29 04:47:37 <splatster> 4 GB
 388 2012-01-29 04:47:53 <etotheipi_> don't worry, I'm working on that soon :)
 389 2012-01-29 04:48:05 <gmaxwell> splatster: feh, buy more ram. ram is cheap.
 390 2012-01-29 04:48:26 <etotheipi_> yeah, it's amazing how cheap you can get 16 GB of RAM, nwo
 391 2012-01-29 04:48:28 <splatster> Ya I know its like $50 - $75 for 8 gigs
 392 2012-01-29 04:48:38 <etotheipi_> you can actually get 16 GB for $80
 393 2012-01-29 04:48:56 <etotheipi_> $5/GB... they might start competing with SSDs soon
 394 2012-01-29 04:49:47 <splatster> I will never trust an SSD for as long as I live after what I have gone through
 395 2012-01-29 04:50:01 <etotheipi_> splatster, what brand/model?
 396 2012-01-29 04:50:13 <splatster> OWC
 397 2012-01-29 04:50:16 <etotheipi_> there's a lot of really crappy ones out there... it's still a new technology
 398 2012-01-29 04:52:26 <etotheipi_> I've never even heard of OWC
 399 2012-01-29 04:52:50 <splatster> Other World Computing is the one I had in this mac
 400 2012-01-29 04:53:12 <splatster> it failed but good thing I had time machine so I only lost about 15 minutes worth of work
 401 2012-01-29 04:53:42 <etotheipi_> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226293
 402 2012-01-29 04:54:13 <splatster> I still use SSDs in raids as long as they have HDD backups
 403 2012-01-29 04:55:07 <gmaxwell> I recently lost data because a PSU failed and fried attached electronics. :(
 404 2012-01-29 04:55:22 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, ugh
 405 2012-01-29 04:55:36 <etotheipi_> that's why I always go "overkill" on PSUs
 406 2012-01-29 04:55:42 <gmaxwell> (it wasn't raid protected, but raid wouldn't have helped!)
 407 2012-01-29 04:55:59 <etotheipi_> because in the end it's not really overkill... the PSU is one the computer component that will take everything else with it when it fails
 408 2012-01-29 04:56:50 dissipate_ has joined
 409 2012-01-29 04:56:51 <gmaxwell> I don't think .. in a great many years of working with a great many machines, including a few working in a PC shop I can remember more than once or twice where a PSU failure has actually damaged other stuff.
 410 2012-01-29 04:57:47 <cjd> poor man's surge protector
 411 2012-01-29 04:58:15 <gmaxwell> yea, okay, perhaps some of the great many machines I'd assumed were lightning damage were actually just PSU failures with greater consequences.
 412 2012-01-29 04:58:49 <cjd> PSU failure, hastened by lightning :)
 413 2012-01-29 04:59:10 <splatster> Oh noes!  Virtual Box just crashed :(
 414 2012-01-29 05:03:09 <splatster> If there were an Armory LiveCD + an option to load a wallet.dat on an encrypted USB stick I would be all over using this for a savings wallet
 415 2012-01-29 05:03:22 <shazooun> cools
 416 2012-01-29 05:04:59 <splatster> etotheipi_: Tell me when you're ready for an OS X build (or when it's satoshi client independent) and I will try my best at making it run on macs.
 417 2012-01-29 05:05:16 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 418 2012-01-29 05:06:02 <splatster> If I made it into an Xcode project I could compile it locally and share it as well as give the user the option to compile.
 419 2012-01-29 05:07:11 <etotheipi_> oh... that reminds me, I need to implement non-app-dir wallets... I actually have it already, I just don't have a way to set/add them
 420 2012-01-29 05:07:13 <splatster> No need to do things like make and the like (as it would be part of the xocde project's build procedure).
 421 2012-01-29 05:08:10 <etotheipi_> so if I add an option to import a wallet from USB key (and keep it on USB key instead of copying to your app dir), then it would make sense
 422 2012-01-29 05:08:27 <etotheipi_> although, if you're in a live environment, it doesn't really matter what you write "to disk", because it's all RAM
 423 2012-01-29 05:08:30 <splatster> etotheipi_: Exactly.
 424 2012-01-29 05:08:55 <sipa> etotheipi_: not necessarily
 425 2012-01-29 05:09:12 <sipa> i have a USB stick with live ubuntu on, with a writable homedir
 426 2012-01-29 05:09:33 <sipa> s/writable/persistent
 427 2012-01-29 05:09:44 <etotheipi_> sipa, but that doesn't have the same benefits as "pure" live CD
 428 2012-01-29 05:10:00 <etotheipi_> which is what some people presumably want (pure) for managing BTC
 429 2012-01-29 05:10:25 <splatster> Ya keep it all in RAM
 430 2012-01-29 05:12:01 devrandom has joined
 431 2012-01-29 05:14:22 <lianj> like cold boot ram? :P
 432 2012-01-29 05:14:29 <etotheipi_> btw, I just got a Casascius 10 BTC silver round with gold-plated B....it's pretty badass
 433 2012-01-29 05:14:37 <etotheipi_> I'm very impressed
 434 2012-01-29 05:15:09 <splatster> I got a 25 BTC coin but it hasn't arived yet so I'll have to wait until monday probably
 435 2012-01-29 05:16:19 dissipate_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 436 2012-01-29 05:16:21 <etotheipi_> the 10 BTC coin actually costs 21 BTC... but now I know why!
 437 2012-01-29 05:16:45 <etotheipi_> it's solid, heavy, cold
 438 2012-01-29 05:18:23 <sipa> i'm tempted to buy one
 439 2012-01-29 05:18:25 <shazooun> ok
 440 2012-01-29 05:22:32 <splatster> Speaking of getting a 10 BTC coin, anyone have some work I can do for them?
 441 2012-01-29 05:24:01 <luke-jr> roconnor: what's wrong with 2-100 bytes?
 442 2012-01-29 05:24:41 <roconnor> just another arbitrary rule that I wasn't aware of. :(
 443 2012-01-29 05:26:09 <luke-jr> in this case, I think it's your fault ;)
 444 2012-01-29 05:26:38 <luke-jr> even if it wasn't plainly documented and mentioned fairly often, I'd think it would be obvious there must be SOME limit :P
 445 2012-01-29 05:27:38 att has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 446 2012-01-29 05:36:54 jondoe has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 447 2012-01-29 05:44:39 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 448 2012-01-29 05:45:59 <CIA-97> bitcoin: ckolivas * r5d5584f80c12 cgminer/ocl.c: Explicitly check for nvidia in opencl platform strings as well. http://tinyurl.com/747d9jh
 449 2012-01-29 05:47:37 * sipa wonders whether cgminer's CIA rumblings shouldn't go to #bitcoin-mining
 450 2012-01-29 05:53:24 rdponticelli_ has joined
 451 2012-01-29 05:54:11 rdponticelli has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 452 2012-01-29 05:56:02 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * rb8f845b4780c cgminer/ocl.c: Display information about the opencl platform with verbose enabled. http://tinyurl.com/7rucldu
 453 2012-01-29 05:57:34 <shazooun> is there a new version of clearcoin
 454 2012-01-29 06:03:02 wirehead has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 455 2012-01-29 06:04:03 freewil has joined
 456 2012-01-29 06:18:03 b4epoche_ has joined
 457 2012-01-29 06:18:45 b4epoche has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 458 2012-01-29 06:18:45 b4epoche_ is now known as b4epoche
 459 2012-01-29 06:21:19 rdponticelli_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 460 2012-01-29 06:22:56 shazooun has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 461 2012-01-29 06:25:46 <splatster> I'm going (try) to get Armory running on OS X tonight.  Anyone want to stay up and help me if I run into a wall?
 462 2012-01-29 06:26:32 <splatster> I'm dual installing Xcode so I can get the command line tools like make without crippling all my newer projects.
 463 2012-01-29 06:26:53 <splatster> etotheipi_: I sure hope this works.
 464 2012-01-29 06:30:12 <etotheipi_> haha, splatster... I'll send you a few BTC if it works
 465 2012-01-29 06:30:14 <etotheipi_> but I can't stay up
 466 2012-01-29 06:30:34 <splatster> Ok I hope I can at least give you something by tomorrow
 467 2012-01-29 06:30:50 <etotheipi_> just remember, you have no obligation to make my code work :)
 468 2012-01-29 06:31:04 <splatster> Ya but I think it's worth it.
 469 2012-01-29 06:31:14 <etotheipi_> cool, well carry on :)
 470 2012-01-29 06:31:14 <splatster> Your client would be a lifesaver for me
 471 2012-01-29 06:31:39 <splatster> If everyone could help debug OS X specific problems, then we all get the benefit.
 472 2012-01-29 06:31:55 <etotheipi_> yeah, unfortunately, I've never touched an OSX machine
 473 2012-01-29 06:32:01 <splatster> It will be an ugly install procedure though.
 474 2012-01-29 06:32:20 <splatster> The user will need Xcode and MacPorts and all of that shit no one likes
 475 2012-01-29 06:32:50 <etotheipi_> splatster, if you get me a VM that runs OSX (or tell me the best way to do it), I might spend some time on it tomorrow
 476 2012-01-29 06:33:02 <etotheipi_> (unless you figure it out)
 477 2012-01-29 06:33:14 <splatster> You will have to sink $50 into mac os x server
 478 2012-01-29 06:33:24 <splatster> But that's if I can't get it to work
 479 2012-01-29 06:33:41 <splatster> Which (hopefully) won't happen
 480 2012-01-29 06:33:43 <etotheipi_> well I've got a friend who uses a mac, at work... perhaps I can hijack his computer for a couple hours
 481 2012-01-29 06:34:07 <splatster> Xcode 4.3 installed; Xcode 4.2.1 95% done installing
 482 2012-01-29 06:34:40 <splatster> You know, I have a Mac OS X paid developer certificate
 483 2012-01-29 06:34:52 <etotheipi_> although, I am quite excited to get a day to just polish this thing...
 484 2012-01-29 06:35:01 <splatster> I could put Armory on the Mac App Store if it were approved
 485 2012-01-29 06:35:22 <etotheipi_> I've spent like two weeks fixing zero-conf-tx/memory-pool stuff... and just got it workign 99%+ today
 486 2012-01-29 06:37:43 <splatster> MacPorts already failed
 487 2012-01-29 06:37:49 Joric has joined
 488 2012-01-29 06:37:49 Joric has quit (Changing host)
 489 2012-01-29 06:37:49 Joric has joined
 490 2012-01-29 06:37:51 <splatster> OpenSSL is the culprit
 491 2012-01-29 06:39:52 underscor has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 492 2012-01-29 06:40:16 eoss has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 493 2012-01-29 06:43:11 underscor has joined
 494 2012-01-29 06:44:54 d1scordian_ has joined
 495 2012-01-29 06:45:57 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r53095da3269b cgminer/main.c: Make --ndevs display verbose opencl information as well to make debugging version information easier. http://tinyurl.com/6tcowne
 496 2012-01-29 06:45:59 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * rd4f5851a455d eloipool/util.py: Bugfix: ScheduleDict heap rebuilding was broken http://tinyurl.com/7c86fgc
 497 2012-01-29 06:46:03 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r99bcde230dfc eloipool/jsonrpcserver.py: Bound methods generate new objects every time you reference them, so store them if we might want to remove the scheduled task later. http://tinyurl.com/7jrdtev
 498 2012-01-29 06:46:40 <splatster> So many goddamn dependencies on the dependencies on the dependencies of Armory
 499 2012-01-29 06:47:25 <splatster> Why the fuck should I have to reinstall the llvm compiler?
 500 2012-01-29 06:47:39 <splatster> and that's to install clang
 501 2012-01-29 06:47:44 <etotheipi_> haha... well hopefully it at least has python already...
 502 2012-01-29 06:47:48 <splatster> and I have to reinstall clang for openssl
 503 2012-01-29 06:48:00 <splatster> and i have to openssl for Armory
 504 2012-01-29 06:48:00 <etotheipi_> splatster, do you know what openssl is used for?
 505 2012-01-29 06:48:09 <etotheipi_> I have included cryptopp sources in the project
 506 2012-01-29 06:48:11 d1scordian has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 507 2012-01-29 06:48:11 d1scordian_ is now known as d1scordian
 508 2012-01-29 06:48:16 <etotheipi_> it could be statically linked
 509 2012-01-29 06:48:41 <etotheipi_> oooh, perhaps python-hashlib needs openssl...?
 510 2012-01-29 06:49:02 <splatster> Hopefully most of these libraries could be included in a compiled build for the less adventurous of users
 511 2012-01-29 06:49:24 <splatster> "--->  Attempting to fetch llvm-3.0.tar.gz from http://distfiles.macports.org/llvm-3.0" WHY!!??
 512 2012-01-29 06:49:33 <etotheipi_> well, I'll definitely be distributing binaries for Windows
 513 2012-01-29 06:50:50 eoss has joined
 514 2012-01-29 06:50:51 eoss has quit (Changing host)
 515 2012-01-29 06:50:51 eoss has joined
 516 2012-01-29 06:50:56 <splatster> I can compile you a click to launch Armory.app for OS X
 517 2012-01-29 06:51:50 <splatster> --->  Computing dependencies for clang-2.9
 518 2012-01-29 06:51:50 <splatster> --->  Dependencies to be installed: clang_select ld64 libunwind-headers llvm-3.0 libffi llvm_select llvm-2.9
 519 2012-01-29 06:52:12 <splatster> I already have llvm
 520 2012-01-29 06:52:15 <splatster> damnit
 521 2012-01-29 06:52:47 <etotheipi_> unfortunately, this is where I have to leave you
 522 2012-01-29 06:53:00 <splatster> Ok hopefully this works out
 523 2012-01-29 06:55:38 * splatster steps away from his computer while llvm (a so-called super fast compiler) compiles.
 524 2012-01-29 06:55:47 <splatster> *facepalm*
 525 2012-01-29 06:57:51 Cablesaurus has joined
 526 2012-01-29 06:57:52 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
 527 2012-01-29 06:57:52 Cablesaurus has joined
 528 2012-01-29 06:59:12 <splatster> It's been compiling for 12 minutes.
 529 2012-01-29 06:59:14 <splatster> UHG!
 530 2012-01-29 07:00:06 <splatster> there are 4 different make processes running
 531 2012-01-29 07:01:48 jgarzik has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 532 2012-01-29 07:03:20 d1scordian_ has joined
 533 2012-01-29 07:03:21 d1scordian_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 534 2012-01-29 07:03:29 d1scordian_ has joined
 535 2012-01-29 07:04:46 <splatster> llvm 3 is STILL compiling!
 536 2012-01-29 07:05:11 <splatster> 131 KB build log
 537 2012-01-29 07:05:17 <splatster> and counting
 538 2012-01-29 07:06:00 wirehead` has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 539 2012-01-29 07:06:03 shazooun has joined
 540 2012-01-29 07:06:57 <splatster> 168 KB
 541 2012-01-29 07:07:12 d1scordian has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 542 2012-01-29 07:07:13 d1scordian_ is now known as d1scordian
 543 2012-01-29 07:08:28 <splatster> HOLY SHIT!!! it finished building
 544 2012-01-29 07:08:36 <etotheipi_> splatster, are you sure you need openssl?
 545 2012-01-29 07:08:41 <splatster> now it is staging into destroot
 546 2012-01-29 07:08:50 <etotheipi_> you have python don't you?
 547 2012-01-29 07:08:54 <splatster> ya
 548 2012-01-29 07:09:14 <splatster> I'm not going to leave anything out
 549 2012-01-29 07:09:44 <etotheipi_> go into python and see if you can do "import hashlib" then "hashlib.new('sha256', "My name is Splatster!").digest()"
 550 2012-01-29 07:10:28 <splatster> \xec&\xe2P\xa9K\xbc]5\xae\x8a\xfd\x7f\xb0\x9f\x96E\xde\xce\xc0\xa93\xeab\x02\xbd\xc9\xbf\x1f\x9c\xdb\xca
 551 2012-01-29 07:10:32 <etotheipi_> if so, I believe there should not be a dependency on openssl
 552 2012-01-29 07:10:39 <etotheipi_> looks like it worked
 553 2012-01-29 07:11:08 <splatster> Well Open SSL is a dependency on something else you need
 554 2012-01-29 07:11:25 <splatster> im basically working off of the ubuntu installation instructions
 555 2012-01-29 07:11:33 <etotheipi_> ohh
 556 2012-01-29 07:11:34 <splatster> only Mac-ifying it
 557 2012-01-29 07:11:39 <etotheipi_> right... sub-dependencies
 558 2012-01-29 07:11:40 <etotheipi_> nm
 559 2012-01-29 07:11:44 <etotheipi_> okay, bedtime!
 560 2012-01-29 07:11:53 <splatster> Dependency-ception
 561 2012-01-29 07:11:56 <etotheipi_> good luck!
 562 2012-01-29 07:12:04 <splatster> Thanks
 563 2012-01-29 07:12:59 <splatster> hey now it's on llvm 2.9!
 564 2012-01-29 07:13:35 dissipate_ has joined
 565 2012-01-29 07:13:35 <splatster> Now all I have to do is wait another 20 minutes and then it can start with the next dependency
 566 2012-01-29 07:28:38 BTC_Bear is now known as BTC_Bear|hbrntng
 567 2012-01-29 07:36:54 <shazooun> smoke korm
 568 2012-01-29 07:38:02 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 569 2012-01-29 07:39:07 <splatster> still installing llvm 2.9
 570 2012-01-29 08:06:26 wasabi1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 571 2012-01-29 08:17:28 RazielZ has joined
 572 2012-01-29 08:24:51 eoss has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 573 2012-01-29 08:28:23 dr_win has joined
 574 2012-01-29 08:33:14 wasabi1 has joined
 575 2012-01-29 08:35:19 <splatster> OpenSSL staging (FINALLY)
 576 2012-01-29 08:36:54 <splatster> Now it's on sqlite3
 577 2012-01-29 08:37:54 <splatster> sqlite and python27 done!
 578 2012-01-29 08:38:14 <splatster> This is one hell of a monologue
 579 2012-01-29 08:41:41 <splatster> Perl? I thought I already had that.
 580 2012-01-29 08:50:06 <splatster> Did perl twice, then curl, and now libidn
 581 2012-01-29 08:52:27 <splatster> xz and glib2
 582 2012-01-29 08:53:38 <gmaxwell> If anyone wants a laugh— solidcoin's latest new difficulty code is all floating point. It'll be pretty exciting when x86 and x86_64 (SSE2 instead of x87 with 80 bits of intermediate precision) nodes split to form seperate blockchains.
 583 2012-01-29 08:54:53 <splatster> s/solidcoin/scamcoin/
 584 2012-01-29 08:55:21 <splatster> gmaxwell: Wait, why the fuck did they do that?
 585 2012-01-29 08:55:25 <gmaxwell> I'm sort of torn about pointing out that kind of stupidity in public. If you don't know to avoid this sort of thing you've got not business making an altcoin.
 586 2012-01-29 08:55:46 <gmaxwell> splatster: Here is the code https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=61400.msg717973#msg717973
 587 2012-01-29 08:56:55 <sipa> gmaxwell: pow() isn't well-defined either
 588 2012-01-29 08:57:01 <splatster> *facepalm*
 589 2012-01-29 08:57:19 <splatster> I am slightly ashamed to be a programmer right now.
 590 2012-01-29 08:57:50 <phantomcircuit> splatster, why realsolid isn't a programmer
 591 2012-01-29 08:57:52 <gmaxwell> -ffast-math or similar options will reorder things too.. Though you don't even need that. At least on x86 w/ GCC you don't get full IEEE correct behavior due to x87's excess precision.
 592 2012-01-29 08:57:55 <phantomcircuit> he's a code monkey
 593 2012-01-29 08:58:10 <splatster> Code monkey is a good way to put it
 594 2012-01-29 08:58:24 <splatster> IDK if he's even a primate
 595 2012-01-29 08:58:24 <gmaxwell> Before mentioning it in here I commented in #solidcoin ...
 596 2012-01-29 08:58:24 <gmaxwell> 00:51 <RealSolid> i dont think that applies to small decimal double math
 597 2012-01-29 08:58:44 <gmaxwell> I'm not going to argue with him (or waste my time searching for a point where they'll differ).
 598 2012-01-29 08:59:09 <gmaxwell> Maybe by some extreme luck they never will, but that .. seems unlikely to me.
 599 2012-01-29 08:59:49 <cjd> if you can get away with timestamp schenanigans then you should have no problem making a fool out of him
 600 2012-01-29 09:00:18 <cjd> that is ofc a big if since he apparently put some fancy time stuff
 601 2012-01-29 09:00:22 <cjd> NTP
 602 2012-01-29 09:00:25 <cjd> that's the word
 603 2012-01-29 09:01:29 <splatster> glib2 done; pkgconfig done; curl installing (again)
 604 2012-01-29 09:03:28 <splatster> building curl again, it isn't even a direct dependency of armory
 605 2012-01-29 09:05:55 iocor has joined
 606 2012-01-29 09:12:44 <splatster> Any ideas? MacPorts errors with "Error: Port build-essential not found"
 607 2012-01-29 09:12:50 Guest21379 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 608 2012-01-29 09:14:55 wirehead has joined
 609 2012-01-29 09:16:52 sacarlson has joined
 610 2012-01-29 09:18:30  has joined
 611 2012-01-29 09:19:18 <splatster> nvm
 612 2012-01-29 09:22:20 <gmaxwell> sipa: okay, it did take me like .. 4 minutes to make a shim that made it give different results for 32 and 64 bit.
 613 2012-01-29 09:23:52 <gmaxwell> (even does with GCC O0)
 614 2012-01-29 09:24:39 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 615 2012-01-29 09:24:54 <sipa> gmaxwell: what's the order of the difference?
 616 2012-01-29 09:24:59 <sipa> relatively?
 617 2012-01-29 09:25:01 <splatster> Solidcoin will become less altchain and more alttree
 618 2012-01-29 09:25:30 molecular has joined
 619 2012-01-29 09:25:41 <sipa> haha
 620 2012-01-29 09:28:08 <splatster> Wait... how will any transaction on a ditched branch ever get more confirms in SC?
 621 2012-01-29 09:28:14 <wirehead> solidcoin is still kicking? wow
 622 2012-01-29 09:28:36 <sipa> splatster: *each* branch will have some miners :)
 623 2012-01-29 09:28:52 <sipa> or do they still have those supernodes which must validate every second block?
 624 2012-01-29 09:29:51 <splatster> I don't get it anymore
 625 2012-01-29 09:30:02 <gmaxwell> Yes.
 626 2012-01-29 09:30:03 <splatster> It's just a complicated open source scam
 627 2012-01-29 09:30:17 nameless has quit (!~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|Remote host closed the connection)
 628 2012-01-29 09:31:13 <splatster> I have to spend a bunch of time finding the Mac alternatives for all these ubuntu repos
 629 2012-01-29 09:31:21 <splatster> Armory better work
 630 2012-01-29 09:35:08 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 631 2012-01-29 09:35:38 <josephcp> do you use macports or homebrew?
 632 2012-01-29 09:36:01 <splatster> FUUUCK!!!
 633 2012-01-29 09:36:04 <splatster> macports
 634 2012-01-29 09:36:05 <josephcp> LOL
 635 2012-01-29 09:36:09 <splatster> BUT FUUUCK!
 636 2012-01-29 09:36:19 <josephcp> yeah, it's just sudo port install packagename
 637 2012-01-29 09:36:25 <splatster> $ make swig
 638 2012-01-29 09:36:26 <splatster> g++  -c -march=native -O2 -pipe  -I/usr/include/crypto++ -fPIC -DUSE_CRYPTOPP -D__STDC_LIMIT_MACROS  -lcrypto++ -lpthread UniversalTimer.cpp
 639 2012-01-29 09:36:26 <splatster> UniversalTimer.cpp:1: error: bad value (native) for -march= switch
 640 2012-01-29 09:36:26 <splatster> UniversalTimer.cpp:1: error: bad value (native) for -mtune= switch
 641 2012-01-29 09:36:26 <splatster> make: *** [UniversalTimer.o] Error 1
 642 2012-01-29 09:36:42 <josephcp> and it'll compile dependancies for you
 643 2012-01-29 09:36:50 <splatster> FUUUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!
 644 2012-01-29 09:36:58 <splatster> I know macports
 645 2012-01-29 09:37:02 <splatster> I use it all the time
 646 2012-01-29 09:37:20 <josephcp> hrm did you update? let me try
 647 2012-01-29 09:37:30 <sipa> splatster: then look up what the valid options are for march
 648 2012-01-29 09:38:08 marf_away has joined
 649 2012-01-29 09:40:56 <josephcp> swig 2.0.4 isntalls fine on homebrew fyi
 650 2012-01-29 09:46:41 <splatster> I'm done for the night
 651 2012-01-29 09:46:46 <splatster> I'll think about it
 652 2012-01-29 09:47:03 <splatster> i think it's just using linux specific compiler opts
 653 2012-01-29 09:47:24 <splatster> I'll figure out its OS X equivalent.
 654 2012-01-29 09:47:33 <sipa> is march= the problem?
 655 2012-01-29 09:47:38 <sipa> try =march=nocona
 656 2012-01-29 09:47:50 <splatster> ok
 657 2012-01-29 09:47:56 <Diablo-D3> heh, or just use native
 658 2012-01-29 09:48:03 <Diablo-D3> compiles it for your cpu, detected
 659 2012-01-29 09:48:07 <sipa> 10:30:37 < splatster> UniversalTimer.cpp:1: error: bad value (native) for -march= switch
 660 2012-01-29 09:48:11 <Diablo-D3> oh
 661 2012-01-29 09:48:15 <Diablo-D3> your gcc is too out of date
 662 2012-01-29 09:48:16 <Diablo-D3> upgrade
 663 2012-01-29 09:48:18 <sipa> no
 664 2012-01-29 09:48:20 <sipa> mac shit
 665 2012-01-29 09:48:26 <Diablo-D3> isnt that what I said?
 666 2012-01-29 09:48:32 <sipa> :)
 667 2012-01-29 09:50:01 <splatster> sipa: it's a little better
 668 2012-01-29 09:50:04 <splatster> In file included from BinaryData.cpp:9:
 669 2012-01-29 09:50:04 <splatster> BinaryData.h:46:22: error: cryptlib.h: No such file or directory
 670 2012-01-29 09:50:04 <splatster> BinaryData.h:47:19: error: osrng.h: No such file or directory
 671 2012-01-29 09:50:42 <sipa> good luck with those :)
 672 2012-01-29 09:51:29 <splatster> Well I'm done
 673 2012-01-29 09:51:34 <splatster> night all
 674 2012-01-29 09:51:41 <josephcp> just compiled swig using both macports and homebrew, what's wrong? is there a reason why you're compiling by hand
 675 2012-01-29 09:52:00 <splatster> damnit
 676 2012-01-29 09:52:07 <splatster> I need to go to bed at some point
 677 2012-01-29 09:52:25 <splatster> josephcp: Give compiling Armory a shot
 678 2012-01-29 09:52:28 <josephcp> are you using xcode 4.3? Most people stay with 4.2 because 4.3 is broken
 679 2012-01-29 09:52:35 <splatster> using 4.2.1
 680 2012-01-29 09:52:36 graingert has joined
 681 2012-01-29 09:52:41 <josephcp> ok
 682 2012-01-29 09:52:49 <josephcp> yeah 4.2.1
 683 2012-01-29 09:53:16 <splatster> give it a shot, etotheipi was going to donate to anyone who could get it on OS X
 684 2012-01-29 09:53:22 <splatster> guess it wont be me
 685 2012-01-29 09:53:49 <splatster> But better to have it on OS X and not get the reward than not have it on OS X at all
 686 2012-01-29 09:54:00 <splatster> Gnight
 687 2012-01-29 09:54:01 <josephcp> kindof curious why it isn't working for you, did you do sudo port selfupdate?
 688 2012-01-29 09:54:04 <josephcp> ok night
 689 2012-01-29 09:54:14 <splatster> i did do a selfupdate
 690 2012-01-29 09:54:28 <josephcp> oh weird, this is why i advocate homebrew over macports
 691 2012-01-29 09:54:30 <splatster> So outdated packages are not the problem
 692 2012-01-29 09:54:32 <josephcp> macports is weird as hell sometimes
 693 2012-01-29 09:54:52 <splatster> Ok get it to work, I can't wait to have armory on OS X
 694 2012-01-29 09:54:57 <josephcp> homebrew plays it more dangerous and uses the libraries that come with the mac ;-)
 695 2012-01-29 09:55:06 <josephcp> like you don't need to recompile ncurses and crap on homebrew
 696 2012-01-29 09:55:08 dissipate_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 697 2012-01-29 09:55:45 shazooun has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 698 2012-01-29 09:59:43 splatster has quit (Quit: I ball so hard motherfuckers wanna fine me.)
 699 2012-01-29 10:05:00 iocor has joined
 700 2012-01-29 10:14:26 Lolcust has joined
 701 2012-01-29 10:15:27 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 702 2012-01-29 10:15:53 copumpkin has joined
 703 2012-01-29 10:16:01 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * ra8e46a074e0b cgminer/adl.c: Add extensive ADL based device info in debug mode. http://tinyurl.com/787d73v
 704 2012-01-29 10:16:02 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * ra4b67f030fc0 cgminer/ (adl.c main.c miner.h ocl.c util.c): Fix various harmless warnings. http://tinyurl.com/7ooywxk
 705 2012-01-29 10:24:58 ovidiusoft has joined
 706 2012-01-29 10:25:06 dr_win has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 707 2012-01-29 10:25:25 dr_win has joined
 708 2012-01-29 10:30:06 b4epoche_ has joined
 709 2012-01-29 10:31:20 b4epoche has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 710 2012-01-29 10:31:20 b4epoche_ is now known as b4epoche
 711 2012-01-29 10:35:58 MrTiggr has joined
 712 2012-01-29 10:50:55 booo has joined
 713 2012-01-29 10:54:19 iocor has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
 714 2012-01-29 10:58:14 sacredchao has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 715 2012-01-29 10:58:20 sacredchao has joined
 716 2012-01-29 11:07:24 datagutt has joined
 717 2012-01-29 11:08:10 wizkid057_ has joined
 718 2012-01-29 11:11:17 wizkid057m has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 719 2012-01-29 11:12:50 baz has joined
 720 2012-01-29 11:39:33 BLZNGPNGN has joined
 721 2012-01-29 11:52:40 marf_away2 has joined
 722 2012-01-29 11:52:54 marf_away has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 723 2012-01-29 11:56:28 maqr has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 724 2012-01-29 12:03:09 erle- has joined
 725 2012-01-29 12:16:02 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r82af288e6943 cgminer/ (adl.c main.c miner.h ocl.c util.c): Revert "Fix various harmless warnings." http://tinyurl.com/878nxeg
 726 2012-01-29 12:22:23 manifold_ has joined
 727 2012-01-29 12:30:35 graingert has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 728 2012-01-29 12:36:10 manifold_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 729 2012-01-29 12:47:58 baz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 730 2012-01-29 12:49:19 marf_away2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 731 2012-01-29 12:56:46 occulta has joined
 732 2012-01-29 13:02:19 a_meteorite has quit (Quit: http://bzfx.net/)
 733 2012-01-29 13:17:22 Lexa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 734 2012-01-29 13:18:52 <CIA-97> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r4bfda61 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Use kernel enqueue global work offset on OpenCL >= 1.1 - http://git.io/y_V_lw https://github.com/Diablo-D3/DiabloMiner/commit/4bfda61c4e57a4fc0f923f7e12598555dceb500b
 735 2012-01-29 13:30:00 Clipse has joined
 736 2012-01-29 13:37:28 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 737 2012-01-29 13:52:04 a_meteorite has joined
 738 2012-01-29 13:58:49 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 739 2012-01-29 14:02:53 pickett has joined
 740 2012-01-29 14:21:22 SomeoneWeird is now known as SomeoneWeirdzzzz
 741 2012-01-29 14:21:33 user_ has joined
 742 2012-01-29 14:24:18 MrTiggr has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 743 2012-01-29 14:26:32 MrTiggr has joined
 744 2012-01-29 14:27:49 wasabi1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 745 2012-01-29 14:41:06 b4epoche_ has joined
 746 2012-01-29 14:41:49 b4epoche has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 747 2012-01-29 14:41:49 b4epoche_ is now known as b4epoche
 748 2012-01-29 14:44:02 vigilyn has joined
 749 2012-01-29 14:50:54 JZavala has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 750 2012-01-29 14:50:59 marf_away has joined
 751 2012-01-29 14:51:25 JZavala has joined
 752 2012-01-29 14:55:43 rdponticelli has joined
 753 2012-01-29 15:00:51 booo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 754 2012-01-29 15:04:00 p0s has joined
 755 2012-01-29 15:09:30 cande has joined
 756 2012-01-29 15:09:50 JZavala has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 757 2012-01-29 15:10:29 JZavala has joined
 758 2012-01-29 15:10:41 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
 759 2012-01-29 15:11:22 JZavala has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 760 2012-01-29 15:12:20 pusle has joined
 761 2012-01-29 15:12:35 JZavala has joined
 762 2012-01-29 15:12:43 user__ has joined
 763 2012-01-29 15:13:03 user_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 764 2012-01-29 15:15:59 marf_away has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 765 2012-01-29 15:17:58 Clipse has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 766 2012-01-29 15:37:10 Yojiro has joined
 767 2012-01-29 15:43:29 JZavala has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 768 2012-01-29 15:43:36 occulta has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 769 2012-01-29 15:44:13 JZavala has joined
 770 2012-01-29 15:44:15 <etotheipi_> so it sounds like compiling Armory on OSX is a real PITA, so I'll offer 6 BTC for someone who does it, and can give me decent instructions for how they did it
 771 2012-01-29 15:44:58 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 772 2012-01-29 15:47:09 wasabi1 has joined
 773 2012-01-29 15:47:31 jgarzik has joined
 774 2012-01-29 15:47:36 jgarzik has quit (Changing host)
 775 2012-01-29 15:47:36 jgarzik has joined
 776 2012-01-29 15:53:48 dr_win has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 777 2012-01-29 15:54:53 occulta has joined
 778 2012-01-29 16:04:00 <Joric> etotheipi_, let me try
 779 2012-01-29 16:04:10 <Joric> etotheipi_, won't take long for 6 btc )
 780 2012-01-29 16:05:28 <Joric> -> 1JoricCBkW8C5m7QUZMwoRz9rBCM6ZSy96
 781 2012-01-29 16:05:47 <etotheipi_> haha Joric, I'll wait for you to finish it
 782 2012-01-29 16:06:19 <Joric> fair enough
 783 2012-01-29 16:07:38 <Joric> piece of cake
 784 2012-01-29 16:08:06 <Joric> i'm rebooting to osx
 785 2012-01-29 16:08:08 Joric has quit ()
 786 2012-01-29 16:13:20 Joric has joined
 787 2012-01-29 16:19:08 marf_away has joined
 788 2012-01-29 16:19:58 eoss has joined
 789 2012-01-29 16:19:58 <Joric> etotheipi_: will it suit you? http://i40.tinypic.com/14y66fr.png it's basically macbook air 1, i made all final appstore builds on that machine
 790 2012-01-29 16:19:59 eoss has quit (Changing host)
 791 2012-01-29 16:19:59 eoss has joined
 792 2012-01-29 16:20:34 <etotheipi_> Joric, unfortunately I know nothing about OSX... so I don't know what I'm even looking at
 793 2012-01-29 16:20:49 <Joric> mostly used windows though, developing on osx sucks
 794 2012-01-29 16:20:51 <etotheipi_> though I know from splatster that he was using xcode 4.2 (whatever that is)
 795 2012-01-29 16:21:45 <roconnor> etotheipi_: armory appears to incorrectly claim that my generated coin is spendable even though 100 confirmations haven't been placed on it.
 796 2012-01-29 16:21:46 <etotheipi_> if the solution helps others shortcut the build process on their own (different version of) OSX, it's still worth it
 797 2012-01-29 16:21:53 <roconnor> etotheipi_: I haven't tried spending it though
 798 2012-01-29 16:22:10 <Joric> either that or 3.2 if you don't want problems with older software
 799 2012-01-29 16:22:19 <etotheipi_> roconnor, that is an excellent point!  I forgot to put special restrictions on coinbase coins
 800 2012-01-29 16:22:41 cdecker has joined
 801 2012-01-29 16:22:53 <etotheipi_> roconnor, I didn't even consider that, because *I* only know how to generate coins in the satoshi client, which enforces that restriction
 802 2012-01-29 16:22:56 <Joric> etotheipi_: did you consider providing binaries for all platforms for download/testing?
 803 2012-01-29 16:23:36 <etotheipi_> Joric, I will definitely be providing binaries for Windows
 804 2012-01-29 16:23:42 <etotheipi_> sounds like OSX will need it too
 805 2012-01-29 16:23:50 <roconnor> etotheipi_: this is an imported wallet
 806 2012-01-29 16:24:15 <etotheipi_> I'm not worrying too much about linux yet, since the build instructions are fairly straightforward
 807 2012-01-29 16:24:21 iocor has joined
 808 2012-01-29 16:25:04 pingdrive has joined
 809 2012-01-29 16:25:26 <Joric> i hate osx it's all like a fat grey ugly browser
 810 2012-01-29 16:25:39 <Joric> let me see what i can do
 811 2012-01-29 16:26:10 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 812 2012-01-29 16:26:22 <etotheipi_> roconnor, I bet you get an error if you try to spend those coins
 813 2012-01-29 16:26:23 <Joric> frankly i think even linux has better ui now
 814 2012-01-29 16:26:30 <roconnor> I can try
 815 2012-01-29 16:26:35 <roconnor> I'm sure I do
 816 2012-01-29 16:26:36 <etotheipi_> try it, you can see if my error box pops up as I expect
 817 2012-01-29 16:28:11 pingdrive has quit (Client Quit)
 818 2012-01-29 16:29:30 <roconnor> etotheipi_: after I send it
 819 2012-01-29 16:29:31 <roconnor> I get
 820 2012-01-29 16:29:34 <roconnor> "The transaction that you just executed, does not appear to have been accepted by the Bitcoin network. This sometimes happens with legitimate transactions when a fee is not included but was required. Or it can be due to a bug in the Armory software.
 821 2012-01-29 16:29:53 pickett has joined
 822 2012-01-29 16:29:58 <roconnor> do you want the failedtx.bin ?
 823 2012-01-29 16:30:18 <roconnor> it is pretty clear to me why it failed :D
 824 2012-01-29 16:31:38 hexx has joined
 825 2012-01-29 16:37:50 <etotheipi_> roconnor, haha
 826 2012-01-29 16:37:59 <etotheipi_> okay, well the error worked
 827 2012-01-29 16:38:10 Clipse has joined
 828 2012-01-29 16:38:13 <etotheipi_> again, I'm leveraging the validation code in the Satoshi client to help me...
 829 2012-01-29 16:38:34 <etotheipi_> I send the tx to the satoshi client, and then 3s later I send an inv msg to get that tx back
 830 2012-01-29 16:38:52 <etotheipi_> if it doesn't have it, I know that it thoguht it was invalid
 831 2012-01-29 16:40:54 <etotheipi_> again, this is all born out of the fact that my original blockchain tools were for scanning the blockchain and collecting statistics... not doing any kind of validation
 832 2012-01-29 16:41:27 <etotheipi_> I just forgot to include coinbase maturity checks in my isUnconfirmed/isSpendable method
 833 2012-01-29 16:44:14 Moron__ has joined
 834 2012-01-29 16:46:25 a_meteorite has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 835 2012-01-29 16:47:21 <roconnor> etotheipi_: I was trying to think who else could be effected; but anyone using pools who payout by coinbase transactions would be affected.
 836 2012-01-29 16:47:41 <roconnor> *affected
 837 2012-01-29 16:48:06 <etotheipi_> roconnor, if I just update the C++ code to use different criteria for coinbase tx... do you think I need anything else?
 838 2012-01-29 16:48:34 <etotheipi_> I mean, the underly scanning code is what decides isFinal/isSpendable/isUnconfirmed and I use the same criteria for all
 839 2012-01-29 16:48:54 <etotheipi_> I'll just branch based on isCoinbase and apply the 120 blocks
 840 2012-01-29 16:49:13 <etotheipi_> and I'll add an icon for coinbase tx
 841 2012-01-29 16:49:38 <Joric> says error: bad value (native) for -march= switch i removed march for a while
 842 2012-01-29 16:49:59 <etotheipi_> Joric, there was some discussion in this thread around 4am about that
 843 2012-01-29 16:50:02 <etotheipi_> check the logs
 844 2012-01-29 16:50:23 <Joric> don't have them on that machine what it was about
 845 2012-01-29 16:50:45 <etotheipi_> it was about that exact error
 846 2012-01-29 16:51:13 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 847 2012-01-29 16:51:15 <Joric> google says it could be replaced to -m32 -march=core2 -mfpmath=sse depending of the machine
 848 2012-01-29 16:51:29 <Joric> more specific, http://betterlogic.com/roger/2011/04/page/4/
 849 2012-01-29 16:51:33 splatster has joined
 850 2012-01-29 16:52:14 <splatster> Did anyone manage to get Armory running on OS X last night?
 851 2012-01-29 16:52:31 <Joric> i'm trying it now
 852 2012-01-29 16:52:44 <Joric> stuck at cryptopp probably should add paths
 853 2012-01-29 16:53:09 <splatster> I know josephcp was going to try...
 854 2012-01-29 16:53:47 <splatster> I spent like 4 hours I think on this and nothing.
 855 2012-01-29 16:53:57 <splatster> etotheipi_: Sorry, man
 856 2012-01-29 16:53:57 <Joric> on what exactly?
 857 2012-01-29 16:54:25 <splatster> I couldn't make swig
 858 2012-01-29 16:59:55 cande has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
 859 2012-01-29 17:01:24 <roconnor> etotheipi_: does the Filter reset automatically to My Wallets after a period of time, or am I going insane?
 860 2012-01-29 17:02:03 <etotheipi_> roconnor, ack, I bet you're right
 861 2012-01-29 17:02:06 <etotheipi_> hold on
 862 2012-01-29 17:02:43 <etotheipi_> I have on my list I need to fix an issue with heartbeat clearing the ledger selection... I bet it also resets that (unintentionally)
 863 2012-01-29 17:02:57 <etotheipi_> yeah, you're right
 864 2012-01-29 17:03:02 <etotheipi_> SOB
 865 2012-01-29 17:03:17 <etotheipi_> (not you... I'm annoyed that I didn't figure out how to get that to go away, yet)
 866 2012-01-29 17:03:34 MrTiggr has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 867 2012-01-29 17:03:40 <roconnor> etotheipi_: as long as a I'm not going insane, I'm happy
 868 2012-01-29 17:04:24 <etotheipi_> nope, I just recreated it here... I'll make that a top priority for today, it really shouldn't be that hard to fix...
 869 2012-01-29 17:06:16 <Joric> i'm trying to build cryptopp it takes ages
 870 2012-01-29 17:09:25 eoss_ has joined
 871 2012-01-29 17:13:37 eoss_ has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
 872 2012-01-29 17:16:56 eoss_ has joined
 873 2012-01-29 17:17:29 genjix has joined
 874 2012-01-29 17:17:41 genjix has left ()
 875 2012-01-29 17:19:06 iocor has joined
 876 2012-01-29 17:19:43 eoss_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 877 2012-01-29 17:21:09 occulta has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
 878 2012-01-29 17:27:05 <splatster> If anyone can get it compile all the way through, we should put this on MacPorts or into an Xcode project.
 879 2012-01-29 17:27:37 <splatster> If we do it in an xcode project then we can get it support tricky things like custom URLs and Icons and click to launch
 880 2012-01-29 17:28:31 <splatster> etotheipi_: do you have a 512 x 512 rendering of the armory Icon?  I can make it into an icns file so it can be used in an OS X app bundle
 881 2012-01-29 17:29:58 <josephcp> are you guys still having trouble with compiling?
 882 2012-01-29 17:30:03 <splatster> ya
 883 2012-01-29 17:30:08 <josephcp> what's giving you trouble?
 884 2012-01-29 17:30:13 <josephcp> wait. you all are on lion, right?
 885 2012-01-29 17:30:22 <splatster> I've given up but if anyone can give me a procedure I'll do it
 886 2012-01-29 17:30:26 <splatster> yes im on lion
 887 2012-01-29 17:30:29 <splatster> 10.7.2
 888 2012-01-29 17:30:33 <josephcp> ok
 889 2012-01-29 17:30:42 <josephcp> what package is failing fo ryou
 890 2012-01-29 17:30:49 <splatster> make swig
 891 2012-01-29 17:30:59 <josephcp> you're using macports to build?
 892 2012-01-29 17:31:24 <splatster> Already finished getting all the dependencies
 893 2012-01-29 17:33:24 <josephcp> is macports trying to build 2.0.4?
 894 2012-01-29 17:33:28 <josephcp> of swig
 895 2012-01-29 17:34:07 <splatster> the problem is when i run "make swig" inside the "cppForSwrig" folder
 896 2012-01-29 17:36:14 <etotheipi_> splatster, amusingly I do have such an icon
 897 2012-01-29 17:36:20 <etotheipi_> it's actually 518x518
 898 2012-01-29 17:36:29 <splatster> ok I can work with that
 899 2012-01-29 17:36:35 <etotheipi_> and it should already be checked in, in the img directory:  img/armory_icon_fullres.png
 900 2012-01-29 17:36:45 <etotheipi_> oh wait, 480x480
 901 2012-01-29 17:37:24 <splatster> where is this img directory?
 902 2012-01-29 17:39:35 <etotheipi_> just checkout armory, switch to qtdev branch
 903 2012-01-29 17:39:39 <etotheipi_> there will be an img dir
 904 2012-01-29 17:40:17 <splatster> ok found it
 905 2012-01-29 17:40:48 occulta has joined
 906 2012-01-29 17:41:48 <roconnor> what is the current estimated total network hashrate?
 907 2012-01-29 17:42:08 <etotheipi_> for reference, I actually got the logo made at 99designs:  I'm really impressed with that process
 908 2012-01-29 17:42:52 <splatster> etotheipi_: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3533940/Armory.icns
 909 2012-01-29 17:43:14 <splatster> And I can use that for an os x bundle icon
 910 2012-01-29 17:43:51 <Joric> whats with macports folks
 911 2012-01-29 17:44:11 <splatster> Joric: htttp://macports.org/
 912 2012-01-29 17:44:26 <Joric> i can't link to cryptopp there's a ton of unresolved externals
 913 2012-01-29 17:44:26 <splatster> oops
 914 2012-01-29 17:44:31 <splatster> Joric: http://macports.org/
 915 2012-01-29 17:44:44 <Joric> macsports!
 916 2012-01-29 17:44:46 <etotheipi_> Joric, linking during compile or running?
 917 2012-01-29 17:45:03 <Joric> during linking )
 918 2012-01-29 17:45:24 <josephcp> are you trying to build 5.6.1_0 from macports?
 919 2012-01-29 17:45:40 <Joric> 5.6.1 cryptopp?
 920 2012-01-29 17:45:42 <josephcp> because i built it fone last night...
 921 2012-01-29 17:45:43 <josephcp> yeah
 922 2012-01-29 17:45:46 <josephcp> fine
 923 2012-01-29 17:45:56 <Joric> i thought there's a source in git along with the armory
 924 2012-01-29 17:45:57 <josephcp> libcryptopp
 925 2012-01-29 17:46:20 <Joric> i actually built something but it gives unresolved externals
 926 2012-01-29 17:46:29 <Joric> curl -O http://www.cryptopp.com/cryptopp561.zip
 927 2012-01-29 17:46:37 <Joric> make -j4 make -j4 libcryptopp.a
 928 2012-01-29 17:46:44 <splatster> Ok starting from scratch I clone armory git, I checkout qtdev, cd into cppForSwig, run make swig, and make swig fails
 929 2012-01-29 17:47:13 <josephcp> sudo port install libcryptopp (after running sudo port selfupdate)
 930 2012-01-29 17:47:28 <Joric> single make without j4 works too
 931 2012-01-29 17:47:34 <Joric> )
 932 2012-01-29 17:47:43 <josephcp> macports often patches the makefile for you..
 933 2012-01-29 17:49:48 <josephcp> for example here's the macports patch for libcryptopp: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=yAnAH23m
 934 2012-01-29 17:50:16 <Joric> trying sudo port install libcryptopp
 935 2012-01-29 17:50:38 <Joric> josephcp: are you on mac all the time?
 936 2012-01-29 17:50:54 <josephcp> copied from yeah
 937 2012-01-29 17:50:56 <josephcp> whoops
 938 2012-01-29 17:51:02 <josephcp> was typing something else
 939 2012-01-29 17:51:03 <josephcp> yeah
 940 2012-01-29 17:51:07 <josephcp> i am on mac
 941 2012-01-29 17:51:08 <Joric> i only use it for building crappy games for the appstore
 942 2012-01-29 17:51:25 <josephcp> hehe, i prefer the mac :-P servers are linux though
 943 2012-01-29 17:52:19 <josephcp> but yeah it's pretty much impossible to build stuff by hand on the mac, you HAVE to use macports or homebrew
 944 2012-01-29 17:52:21 <Joric> maybe macports are really an option
 945 2012-01-29 17:52:40 <Joric> i tried to build everything from source
 946 2012-01-29 17:52:41 Xunie has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 947 2012-01-29 17:53:06 <Joric> finds out there's no pyqt4 aswell have no idea where to get it
 948 2012-01-29 17:54:16 <josephcp> it's pretty much impossible, i think most packages won't run without macports
 949 2012-01-29 17:54:17 <Joric> thought it comes with xcode
 950 2012-01-29 17:54:22 <josephcp> port search py | grep qt
 951 2012-01-29 17:54:51 <josephcp> xcode is only good for appstore and building cocoa/carbon guis. anything else is a bad idea
 952 2012-01-29 17:55:08 jondoe has joined
 953 2012-01-29 17:57:26 <splatster> Has anyone gotten armory to open and run on OS X yet?
 954 2012-01-29 17:57:39 <Joric> nope
 955 2012-01-29 17:57:53 <josephcp> i may try later
 956 2012-01-29 17:58:13 <Joric> i'm rebuilding cryptopp, again )
 957 2012-01-29 17:58:30 <Joric> oh it's installing
 958 2012-01-29 17:58:37 <josephcp> you guys should get the bounty for it ;-)
 959 2012-01-29 17:58:42 <etotheipi_> anyway willing to discuss BIP 0010 with me?  https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0010
 960 2012-01-29 17:59:10 <Joric> josephcp: you won't beleive... )
 961 2012-01-29 17:59:30 <Joric> *ie
 962 2012-01-29 17:59:33 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell identified that someone could manipulate the online computer (if they gain control), to create your offline tx in such a way that it *appears* to only spend X BTC, but it actually dumps your wallet into tx fee
 963 2012-01-29 18:00:05 <etotheipi_> not the most useful attack for someone trying to steal your BTC (unless they have a couple hundred GH/s mining power), but it's still a risk (albeit a small one)
 964 2012-01-29 18:00:15 <josephcp> that's a risk for any lightweight client
 965 2012-01-29 18:01:09 <etotheipi_> the heart of the issue is that the offline computer is signing the tx, and the part that is signed includes recipients and output values, but the only input information is an OutPoint to the txouts being spent
 966 2012-01-29 18:01:25 eoss has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 967 2012-01-29 18:01:30 <josephcp> well if you include the prior tx it's better
 968 2012-01-29 18:02:12 <etotheipi_> it's actually kind of frustrating that the protocol is extremely explicit about just about everything, except for including the input amounts, or specifying the tx fee
 969 2012-01-29 18:02:19 <josephcp> that way you can verify that you'll be spending the correct amount (but not verified that the tx has not already been spent, but that's a problem on the receiving end)
 970 2012-01-29 18:02:35 <etotheipi_> if I had either one, I wouldn't have to address this problem... but josephcp is right, you can include the prev txs
 971 2012-01-29 18:02:39 <etotheipi_> it just bloats it a lot
 972 2012-01-29 18:02:52 <josephcp> i think you *have* to do it if you dont want that risk though
 973 2012-01-29 18:03:22 <josephcp> you can deem it an acceptable risk, but i dunno, it sounds a lot safer
 974 2012-01-29 18:04:03 <etotheipi_> josephcp, I agree on all counts... it seems like a really small risk (since the attacker has to be set on "destruction" instead of "theft")
 975 2012-01-29 18:04:14 <josephcp> but then again who knows, i don't see many situations this cropping up <shrug>
 976 2012-01-29 18:04:18 <etotheipi_> but why not fix it if I can?  basically because I like the compactness of BIP 0010 packets
 977 2012-01-29 18:04:52 <josephcp> add in an optional section throw in a SHOULD"
 978 2012-01-29 18:04:54 <josephcp> "
 979 2012-01-29 18:04:59 <josephcp> if you want to hedge your bets :-P
 980 2012-01-29 18:05:18 <etotheipi_> so I'm thinking... in the "header" of BIP 0010 packet, I include the serialized tx to be signed with input scripts replaced by output scripts to be spent (already part of BIP 0010)
 981 2012-01-29 18:05:41 <etotheipi_> and then I include any extra, supporting, serialized tx's for verification of input amounts
 982 2012-01-29 18:05:47 <etotheipi_> just string them all together
 983 2012-01-29 18:06:21 <etotheipi_> so the header is actually a list of txs -- the first one is the specially-prepared tx, the rest are just the raw txs from the blockchain containing the OutPoints being spent
 984 2012-01-29 18:06:29 <josephcp> so question: is there a reason why you're not just dumping the straight hex transaction?
 985 2012-01-29 18:06:35 <josephcp> for the pending transaction i mean
 986 2012-01-29 18:06:50 <josephcp> with all the _TXINPUT or whatever
 987 2012-01-29 18:07:22 <etotheipi_> josephcp, the header includes the tx being created/signed with the input scripts replaced with the output scripts being spent (which needs to be done anyway, for signing)
 988 2012-01-29 18:07:52 iocor has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
 989 2012-01-29 18:07:53 <etotheipi_> and I like the fact that at the bottom of the ascii-serialized packet you can visually identify which signatures are present
 990 2012-01-29 18:08:05 <josephcp> wouldn't it be fine just to leave a blank txin or whatever and let the client sign it?
 991 2012-01-29 18:08:27 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not too sure.)
 992 2012-01-29 18:08:33 <etotheipi_> josephcp, it's because the signing device would need the blockchain in order to do this
 993 2012-01-29 18:09:13 <etotheipi_> by including the output scripts as I described, the signing device can actually sign it without needing the blockchain --> thus the signing device only needs ECDSA ops
 994 2012-01-29 18:09:32 <josephcp> no i mean why not just have a straight hex transaction with the txins blanked out for the device to sign
 995 2012-01-29 18:09:57 pingdrive has joined
 996 2012-01-29 18:10:05 <etotheipi_> josephcp, because in order to properly sign a tx, you need to sign for each input by blanking all txin scripts, and replace them the with txOut scripts being spent
 997 2012-01-29 18:10:21 <josephcp> the reason why i think that's preferable is it requires less code for other clients to adopt
 998 2012-01-29 18:10:23 <etotheipi_> which requires the device to find those OutPoints in the blockchain and grab the txOut script to put in there
 999 2012-01-29 18:10:46 Turingi has joined
1000 2012-01-29 18:10:47 Turingi has quit (Changing host)
1001 2012-01-29 18:10:47 Turingi has joined
1002 2012-01-29 18:11:18 <josephcp> it just seems like the client would be able to figure it out and handle that
1003 2012-01-29 18:11:22 <gmaxwell> josephcp> that's a risk for any lightweight client   < you're totally misunderstanding that risk
1004 2012-01-29 18:11:40 <gmaxwell> Thats _not_ a risk for a lightweight client, the lightweight client knows the inputs its using
1005 2012-01-29 18:11:47 <etotheipi_> josephcp, if I don't do it, then both preparation agent AND signing device need the blockchain
1006 2012-01-29 18:11:58 <josephcp> gmaxwell: mmmm i think i understand, i corrected myself later
1007 2012-01-29 18:12:08 <josephcp> :-P
1008 2012-01-29 18:12:12 <gmaxwell> ah okay
1009 2012-01-29 18:12:13 <etotheipi_> this way, only the preparation device needs the blockchain, the signing device only needs ECDSA ops
1010 2012-01-29 18:12:57 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: the preparation device doesn't need the blockchain— it could be a SPV node, for example. It needs the relevant transactions..
1011 2012-01-29 18:13:02 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, since you're here... I'm proposing to update the BIP 0010 so that instead of just the specially-prepared tx to be signed, that it's actually a list of txs...
1012 2012-01-29 18:13:29 <etotheipi_> the first one is always the specially-prepared txs, the rest are the supporting txs (if they are there) to help verify inputs
1013 2012-01-29 18:13:47 <josephcp> i think receiving bitcoins from a lightweight client is a more intractiable/interesting security problem though, gmaxwell ;-)
1014 2012-01-29 18:13:57 <etotheipi_> the signing device interface can identify if the inputs are verified (if the txs are there), or unverified (if not included)
1015 2012-01-29 18:14:24 <etotheipi_> this way BIP 0010 can use either method:  bloated for super-extra security, or lite for 99% of that security
1016 2012-01-29 18:14:39 <etotheipi_> (I still believe that the risk you identified, while technically feasible, is ludicrously unlikely)
1017 2012-01-29 18:14:49 <josephcp> while i think the example you said about having the hash tree the miners use is a good long term solution
1018 2012-01-29 18:15:02 iocor has joined
1019 2012-01-29 18:15:09 <etotheipi_> (it's a lot of work to not actually steal the coins)
1020 2012-01-29 18:15:17 <josephcp> i think we might be a ways away from that, but what do i know
1021 2012-01-29 18:15:39 <josephcp> etotheipi_: unless it's a malicious miner with a lot of hasing power ;-)
1022 2012-01-29 18:15:42 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: I don't know why you're opposed to just completely closing a hole that can be easily closed.
1023 2012-01-29 18:15:57 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: if you make "lite" an option the compromised requesting node will always send lite data.
1024 2012-01-29 18:16:10 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, for the same reason we're having a discussion on the mailing list about long addresses
1025 2012-01-29 18:16:26 <etotheipi_> the compactness of BIP 0010 makes it easy to move data around copy&paste
1026 2012-01-29 18:16:34 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: even a stubed out transaction is already way longer than anything that can be easily copied and pasted.
1027 2012-01-29 18:17:00 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, but the signing device can identify if the supporting transactions are not included and simply identify which inputs couldn't be verified
1028 2012-01-29 18:17:37 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: thats failing from a human factors perspective. It's an extra step which will get ignored.
1029 2012-01-29 18:17:44 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, fair enough
1030 2012-01-29 18:17:58 <etotheipi_> well, kinda... it's up to the developer to decide how to do it... not hte user
1031 2012-01-29 18:18:27 <Joric> etotheipi_: looks like you can't combine $(library_opts) with the -c option
1032 2012-01-29 18:18:28 <josephcp> just throw prior transactions it in the specs, call it a SHOULD
1033 2012-01-29 18:18:36 <gmaxwell> josephcp: "i think receiving bitcoins from a lightweight client is a more intractiable/interesting" < what are you refering to it.
1034 2012-01-29 18:18:41 <Joric> it leads to linker input file unused since linking not done
1035 2012-01-29 18:18:54 <etotheipi_> Joric, I have no idea what you're talking about
1036 2012-01-29 18:19:03 <gmaxwell> josephcp: if it's not mandatory it's not effective because the attacker will force downgrade.
1037 2012-01-29 18:19:04 <Joric> swig makefile
1038 2012-01-29 18:19:11 <etotheipi_> Joric, haha... I really am not all that savvy with makefiles and linking, etc
1039 2012-01-29 18:19:27 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, the attacker can't downgrade the offline computer
1040 2012-01-29 18:19:33 <josephcp> gmaxwell: if you have a lightweight client is more difficult to prove receiving coins is all
1041 2012-01-29 18:19:41 <etotheipi_> if they have the offline computer (via USB virus or something), all bets are off anyway
1042 2012-01-29 18:19:50 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: no but the offline computer can't tell if you've switched to a host that simply doesn't support (SHOULD) sending them.
1043 2012-01-29 18:20:44 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, hahah I was just about to say "well it's up to the user to decide if they want to risk signing a tx without inputs verified" but then you already addressed that in a way I agree with :)
1044 2012-01-29 18:20:47 <gmaxwell> josephcp: it's not, you give them the tree fragments connecting them to the bitcoin headers. They only trust them if they're burried a bit. It's proven though not with the same security properties as a full node.
1045 2012-01-29 18:21:00 <josephcp> no, i'm saying the prior txs should be sent, it's up to the offline computer on what to do with it
1046 2012-01-29 18:21:43 dr_win has joined
1047 2012-01-29 18:21:44 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: in addition to the simple human factors, it's a security risk that the user couldn't reason about (I mean, we had to have a fair amount of discussion before it came up, joe user will be rightfully clueless)
1048 2012-01-29 18:22:02 <etotheipi_> and to be fair... the tx are serialized to be ASCII-armored like PGP... they are copy&pastable most of the time... easily fit into a small section of the screen
1049 2012-01-29 18:22:09 <gmaxwell> josephcp: ... If they're sent you've now taken 99.999999% of the cost related to that.
1050 2012-01-29 18:22:31 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, in the end, you are right...
1051 2012-01-29 18:22:47 <josephcp> gmaxwell: oh i don't disagree here
1052 2012-01-29 18:23:10 <etotheipi_> perhaps I just wanted to avoid having to upgrade my offline computer which is already happily being used to store/manage lots of Bitcoins :)
1053 2012-01-29 18:23:52 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: this is perhaps the first time I've ever thought "perhaps a developer shouldn't be using their own software due to the conflict of interest it creates"!
1054 2012-01-29 18:24:27 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, I'm only kidding, of course, I wouldn't sacrifice security just because I'm slightly inconvenienced by it
1055 2012-01-29 18:25:11 <etotheipi_> I guess, I was more concerned about breaking the "elegance" of the current BIP 0010... but I think it will still be fine, even with the full transacitons included... unless they are huge tx
1056 2012-01-29 18:25:28 <etotheipi_> and even then, most people are saving them to file on USB, not copy&pasting
1057 2012-01-29 18:26:38 <josephcp> i still think you should seriously consider using standard hex transactions with empty txins instead of a new format, it'll be easier to adopt, i also like JSON more for organizing multiple transactions, but that's just me :-P
1058 2012-01-29 18:26:53 <splatster> $ make swig
1059 2012-01-29 18:26:54 <splatster> g++  -c -march=native -O2 -pipe  -I/usr/include/cryptopp -Icryptopp -fPIC -DUSE_CRYPTOPP -D__STDC_LIMIT_MACROS  -lcryptopp -lpthread UniversalTimer.cpp
1060 2012-01-29 18:26:54 <splatster> UniversalTimer.cpp:1: error: bad value (native) for -march= switch
1061 2012-01-29 18:26:58 <splatster> UniversalTimer.cpp:1: error: bad value (native) for -mtune= switch
1062 2012-01-29 18:26:59 <splatster> make: *** [UniversalTimer.o] Error 1
1063 2012-01-29 18:27:00 <splatster> Any ideas?
1064 2012-01-29 18:27:08 <etotheipi_> josephcp, then how do you avoid requring the offline device from storing blockchain/tx data ?
1065 2012-01-29 18:27:36 <etotheipi_> (gmaxwell is right, you don't need the full blockchain, but it still requires storing somethign on the device from the blockchain)
1066 2012-01-29 18:27:47 <josephcp> you only need to send the transaction that was not yet sent to the bitcoin network..
1067 2012-01-29 18:28:03 <splatster> Can anyone help me?
1068 2012-01-29 18:28:17 <etotheipi_> splatster, I wish I could...
1069 2012-01-29 18:28:49 <splatster> josephcp: Got any ideas on fixing this one?
1070 2012-01-29 18:28:58 <Joric> splatster: just get rid of it macos has no such option
1071 2012-01-29 18:29:09 <splatster> ok...
1072 2012-01-29 18:29:36 <josephcp> use homebrew if macports gives you trouble (but i compiled fine on macports)
1073 2012-01-29 18:29:47 <Joric> on macos you have to set platform dependent options by hand, -sse etc.
1074 2012-01-29 18:29:54 <etotheipi_> josephcp, in the end, the special version of the tx is a timesaver for the developer
1075 2012-01-29 18:30:26 <etotheipi_> and not difficult to produce, yet it dramatically reduces the complexity of the signing device software
1076 2012-01-29 18:30:45 <josephcp> etotheipi_: it's trivial for me to read a hex transaction, and to insert a pubkey, it would require work for read a new format
1077 2012-01-29 18:31:03 <etotheipi_> josephcp, you can't just sign a raw tx:  it has to be prepared with data from the outputs being spent
1078 2012-01-29 18:31:39 <splatster> I get a bunch of things like this:
1079 2012-01-29 18:31:42 <splatster> i686-apple-darwin11-llvm-g++-4.2: -lcryptopp: linker input file unused because linking not done
1080 2012-01-29 18:31:47 <josephcp> yeah i know, but you can get all the data from the hex transaction..
1081 2012-01-29 18:31:52 XX01XX has joined
1082 2012-01-29 18:32:09 <etotheipi_> oh crap.... you're right.... since we're now *requiring* the transactions to be there... those scripts must be present
1083 2012-01-29 18:32:22 <etotheipi_> err... those scripts will be available in the other tx data
1084 2012-01-29 18:32:37 Yojiro has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1085 2012-01-29 18:33:50 <etotheipi_> well this is why I wanted to have this discussion
1086 2012-01-29 18:34:24 <Joric> splatster: that's because -l was specified along with -c you can't link libraries while compiling ^)
1087 2012-01-29 18:34:30 <etotheipi_> although this changes my TxDP code quite a bit, I might just wait until after alpha to update this...
1088 2012-01-29 18:34:33 <Joric> the whole makefile has to be rewritten
1089 2012-01-29 18:34:41 <josephcp> hehe, yeah i like conventions of a hex transaction simply because it would lower switching costs :-P
1090 2012-01-29 18:34:44 <splatster> Oh, any progress on that?
1091 2012-01-29 18:34:57 <josephcp> haha ok, just ideas!
1092 2012-01-29 18:35:04 <Joric> splatster: yes, i'll make it work today
1093 2012-01-29 18:35:16 <splatster> Ok cool!
1094 2012-01-29 18:35:22 <etotheipi_> josephcp, I totally agree... it's just that the first version of BIP 0010 addressed the blockchain-data problem with this special-tx-serialization... I thought it was super-elegant
1095 2012-01-29 18:35:34 <josephcp> i still don't see why you are having so much trouble when simply using macports or homebrew will make everything work
1096 2012-01-29 18:35:38 <etotheipi_> but if I'm updating it to include the prev tx anyway.... then you're absolutely right
1097 2012-01-29 18:35:51 <splatster> You want me to fork this on github so you can make changes?
1098 2012-01-29 18:36:00 <splatster> and then Joric can pull it
1099 2012-01-29 18:36:10 <splatster> We just need to make a "Makefile.OSX"
1100 2012-01-29 18:36:16 <Joric> josephcp: 'simply using' lol
1101 2012-01-29 18:36:28 <josephcp> Joric: ;-)
1102 2012-01-29 18:36:30 <etotheipi_> geez guys... and I thought building in Windows was challenging...
1103 2012-01-29 18:37:19 <Joric> it's building half of gnu here
1104 2012-01-29 18:37:23 <etotheipi_> lol
1105 2012-01-29 18:37:31 <Joric> i was asking for swig it's building ncurses
1106 2012-01-29 18:38:39 <Joric> btw i'd love ncurses version of bitcoin
1107 2012-01-29 18:39:03 <josephcp> macports is crazy stupid that way, that's why a lot of people use homebrew (but homebrew is a lot harder to search, because it has a lot of weird names for packages like pyqt4 is pyqt)
1108 2012-01-29 18:39:33 <Joric> everything is better with ncurses!
1109 2012-01-29 18:39:47 <Joric> atleast rtorrent
1110 2012-01-29 18:39:48 <josephcp> macports works that way because they don't trust the ncurses that Apple packages with their OS
1111 2012-01-29 18:40:00 <josephcp> homebrew uses Apple provided libs wherever possible
1112 2012-01-29 18:40:12 <josephcp> there's advantages and disadvantages to each
1113 2012-01-29 18:40:18 <etotheipi_> sounds like this bounty might be split up...
1114 2012-01-29 18:40:30 <josephcp> nah just give it to them :-P they put more work into it
1115 2012-01-29 18:41:02 <josephcp> i need to head out for brunch right now, later guys, msg me if macports/homebrew gives you any trouble
1116 2012-01-29 18:41:06 Joric_ has joined
1117 2012-01-29 18:41:06 Joric_ has quit (Changing host)
1118 2012-01-29 18:41:06 Joric_ has joined
1119 2012-01-29 18:42:10 <Joric_> how so? i'm doing all the job here )
1120 2012-01-29 18:42:42 graingert has joined
1121 2012-01-29 18:43:09 <graingert> BlueMatt: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification#alert does someone have the private key for this?
1122 2012-01-29 18:43:15 Yojiro has joined
1123 2012-01-29 18:43:22 <graingert> BlueMatt: the downloads should probably be signed with that
1124 2012-01-29 18:44:20 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1125 2012-01-29 18:44:20 Joric_ is now known as Joric
1126 2012-01-29 18:46:14 Karmaon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1127 2012-01-29 18:48:29 JZavala has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1128 2012-01-29 18:53:08 b4epoche has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1129 2012-01-29 18:53:12 b4epoche_ has joined
1130 2012-01-29 18:54:46 graingert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1131 2012-01-29 18:57:40 graingert has joined
1132 2012-01-29 18:58:01 <gmaxwell> graingert: yes.
1133 2012-01-29 18:58:10 <graingert> awesome
1134 2012-01-29 19:00:56 random_cat has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1135 2012-01-29 19:00:56 MobiusL has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1136 2012-01-29 19:00:56 darkee has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1137 2012-01-29 19:00:57 devrandom has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
1138 2012-01-29 19:00:57 Yojiro has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
1139 2012-01-29 19:02:32 darkee has joined
1140 2012-01-29 19:03:14 random_cat has joined
1141 2012-01-29 19:04:09 Yojiro has joined
1142 2012-01-29 19:05:36 MobiusL has joined
1143 2012-01-29 19:06:17 <BlueMatt> graingert: the alert key is held by gavin, satoshi, and theymos
1144 2012-01-29 19:06:33 <BlueMatt> graingert: but its a bitcoin key, not a pgp key
1145 2012-01-29 19:06:48 <BlueMatt> you could use the raw bytes of the key to make a pgp key, but that wouldnt be worth much
1146 2012-01-29 19:07:08 devrandom has joined
1147 2012-01-29 19:07:32 Yojiro has left ()
1148 2012-01-29 19:10:03 <splatster> Joric: Making progress?
1149 2012-01-29 19:10:35 <Joric> lots of unresolved externals with swig
1150 2012-01-29 19:10:43 <Joric> undefined symbols "_PyObject_Str"
1151 2012-01-29 19:11:15 <Joric> probably wrong arch not sure yet
1152 2012-01-29 19:11:16 <etotheipi_> Joric, isn't there a pre-built swig for OSX?
1153 2012-01-29 19:11:46 <Joric> swig is working now i'm trying to build your module
1154 2012-01-29 19:12:11 Karmaon has joined
1155 2012-01-29 19:12:29 <etotheipi_> oh... so swig produces the CppBlockUtils_wrap.cxx but you can't compile it?
1156 2012-01-29 19:12:47 <Joric> yes
1157 2012-01-29 19:15:14 Xunie has joined
1158 2012-01-29 19:15:18 Turingi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1159 2012-01-29 19:15:24 wirehead` has joined
1160 2012-01-29 19:16:01 Turingi has joined
1161 2012-01-29 19:16:17 Turingi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1162 2012-01-29 19:16:56 Turingi has joined
1163 2012-01-29 19:20:16 <etotheipi_> roconnor, it sounds like you've been testing Armory a bit... do you have any recommendations for my alpha release?
1164 2012-01-29 19:20:25 <etotheipi_> (besides handling coinbase tx)(
1165 2012-01-29 19:21:58 <splatster> etotheipi_: my only comment right now is that some of the dialogs are too long
1166 2012-01-29 19:22:19 <splatster> there's a certain point where people wont read
1167 2012-01-29 19:22:21 <etotheipi_> splatster, I definitely erred on giving too much information
1168 2012-01-29 19:22:51 <etotheipi_> for offline tx, I will leave it alone (because I think people need the directions), but I will look at shortening some of the other ones
1169 2012-01-29 19:24:42 <etotheipi_> right now, I'm working on polishing stupid stuff... like not popping up a wallet-select dialog when you only have one wallet, etc
1170 2012-01-29 19:24:51 redMBA has joined
1171 2012-01-29 19:26:17 <splatster> I wold rather you work on being Satoshi client independent and less RAM intensive before you work on shortening the text of dialog boxes
1172 2012-01-29 19:26:39 <etotheipi_> splatster, I'm conflicted on networking-independent.... but the RAM issue is number one priority
1173 2012-01-29 19:27:32 <etotheipi_> and I think I have a good way to do it, but I have to do some testing to see if it's still usable (i.e. if it takes 3 minutes to scan the blockchain from cold boot, I'll need to do some more drastic changes)
1174 2012-01-29 19:27:48 <splatster> First: RAM/Satoshi Client fixes.  Second: RAM only on a live CD.  Third: everything else
1175 2012-01-29 19:28:39 redMBA has quit (Client Quit)
1176 2012-01-29 19:29:07 <etotheipi_> I think I might keep Satoshi client between Armory and the network... though I might, in the future, cannibalize the Satoshi client and just use the networking engine
1177 2012-01-29 19:29:11 Turingi is now known as TuringisArduino
1178 2012-01-29 19:29:27 user__ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1179 2012-01-29 19:29:39 TuringisArduino is now known as Turingi
1180 2012-01-29 19:29:39 <splatster> But the satoshi client is why you need all that ram, right?
1181 2012-01-29 19:29:42 <etotheipi_> right now, there's a tremendous amount of complexity in doing validation, peer finding/spam-detection, complicated script stuff
1182 2012-01-29 19:29:46 <etotheipi_> splatster, negative
1183 2012-01-29 19:30:04 <etotheipi_> the RAM usage is from storing the blockchain in RAM
1184 2012-01-29 19:30:27 <etotheipi_> but I think I can switch to mmap for that (but it will probably require OS-dependent code branches)
1185 2012-01-29 19:30:28 <splatster> So why not use the satoshi source to do block validation and connections and the like?
1186 2012-01-29 19:30:45 <etotheipi_> splatster, that's exaclty what I'm doing right now... that's why you have to have the Satoshi client open :)
1187 2012-01-29 19:31:05 <etotheipi_> oh... the source... well yes, I might do that in the future, but it will probably be a lot of work
1188 2012-01-29 19:31:06 <splatster> So eventually the satoshi source will just be built in?
1189 2012-01-29 19:31:19 <etotheipi_> my understanding is that the satoshi client is not easily broken into pieces
1190 2012-01-29 19:31:30 <splatster> Run bitcoind as a background proccess
1191 2012-01-29 19:31:54 <etotheipi_> splatster, right now that's low priority, but I am thinking about all these things
1192 2012-01-29 19:32:22 <etotheipi_> including the sources does have the problem that I have to re-distribute the app every time the Satoshi client is updated
1193 2012-01-29 19:32:40 <etotheipi_> and that also means, potentially, re-dissecting the Satoshi source code
1194 2012-01-29 19:32:49 <etotheipi_> so bitcoind is a nice thought...
1195 2012-01-29 19:33:41 lyspooner has joined
1196 2012-01-29 19:34:23 <etotheipi_> RAM is top priority... I know it can be done, and I know it must be done before I start advertising Armory on any wider scale
1197 2012-01-29 19:34:52 lyspooner has quit (Changing host)
1198 2012-01-29 19:34:52 lyspooner has joined
1199 2012-01-29 19:46:37 <splatster> Does anyone have a job for me?  I'm still shit broke after spending so much on my casascius order
1200 2012-01-29 19:47:11 <etotheipi_> splatster, haha
1201 2012-01-29 19:47:20 <etotheipi_> I just spent a bit of money on that, too
1202 2012-01-29 19:47:31 <splatster> I want a 10 BTC coin now
1203 2012-01-29 19:47:49 <splatster> but I don't even have 0.5 BTC in my wallet right now
1204 2012-01-29 19:47:59 <splatster> and the coin costs 21 BTC
1205 2012-01-29 19:48:12 <etotheipi_> well I'll send you 0.5 BTC to spending so much time on compiling :)
1206 2012-01-29 19:48:25 <etotheipi_> doesn't matter that you didn't succeed, I appreciate the effort
1207 2012-01-29 19:48:44 <splatster> Lets say it was for the icon file :)
1208 2012-01-29 19:49:07 <Moron__> aww ill send you 0.1337 coints for being such a cool dude
1209 2012-01-29 19:49:09 <Moron__> j/k
1210 2012-01-29 19:49:19 <splatster> that's mean...
1211 2012-01-29 19:49:20 <etotheipi_> give me an address
1212 2012-01-29 19:49:28 <splatster> 1PAiD5ACB37FHmLaapxU2Tj2mQCxoVvn4j is my donation address
1213 2012-01-29 19:50:01 <Moron__> oh ill start a whos the best dev competition :) who thinks theyre the best developer/coder here? provide proof/testimonies
1214 2012-01-29 19:50:18 <etotheipi_> splatster, did you see my awesome new donation address?
1215 2012-01-29 19:50:27 <etotheipi_> (I'm quite proud of it, obviously :))
1216 2012-01-29 19:50:28 <splatster> hmm no
1217 2012-01-29 19:50:37 <splatster> what is it?
1218 2012-01-29 19:50:39 <etotheipi_> 1QBDLYTDFHHZAABYSKGKPWKLSXZWCCJQBX
1219 2012-01-29 19:50:55 <splatster> woah
1220 2012-01-29 19:51:01 <Moron__> splatster: your address has "Paid" in the front... is that a vanity address?
1221 2012-01-29 19:51:01 <splatster> all caps no numbers?
1222 2012-01-29 19:51:01 <graingert> ALL CAPZ
1223 2012-01-29 19:51:09 <etotheipi_> and no numbers
1224 2012-01-29 19:51:12 <splatster> Moron__: Yep
1225 2012-01-29 19:51:17 <etotheipi_> thank you vanity gen!
1226 2012-01-29 19:51:27 <Moron__> cool, how long did that take to generate?
1227 2012-01-29 19:51:33 <splatster> but my address's firstbits are 1Paid6a
1228 2012-01-29 19:51:43 <etotheipi_> a week or two with 3 CPUs
1229 2012-01-29 19:51:44 <splatster> excuse me 1paid5a
1230 2012-01-29 19:51:48 <etotheipi_> I think I got lucky
1231 2012-01-29 19:51:56 <etotheipi_> it probably should've taken a bit longer
1232 2012-01-29 19:52:23 <splatster> Ya it took me somewhere around a day on this mac's shitty nvidia GPUs
1233 2012-01-29 19:52:42 <etotheipi_> unfortunately, I had to use regex, so I had to do it on CPU
1234 2012-01-29 19:52:54 <Moron__> How long would it take for 1Moron ?
1235 2012-01-29 19:53:08 <etotheipi_> not long
1236 2012-01-29 19:53:15 <etotheipi_> 5 characters should be pretty quick
1237 2012-01-29 19:53:20 <splatster> It depends on your hardware
1238 2012-01-29 19:53:22 <graingert> a minute
1239 2012-01-29 19:53:25 <graingert> on my cpu
1240 2012-01-29 19:53:30 <Moron__> arent vanity addresses easier to brute force teh private keys for?
1241 2012-01-29 19:53:34 <graingert> nope
1242 2012-01-29 19:53:41 <etotheipi_> Moron__, no
1243 2012-01-29 19:53:46 <graingert> as they generate a privkey, then they increment that
1244 2012-01-29 19:53:52 <etotheipi_> other people could easily create 1Moron* addresses, but they won't be the same addresses
1245 2012-01-29 19:53:55 <gmaxwell> Moron__: no, but they might encourage moronic behavior.
1246 2012-01-29 19:53:58 <Moron__> oh i see
1247 2012-01-29 19:54:11 <gmaxwell> E.g. I could also create a 1Moron address, and someone might believe it was yours.
1248 2012-01-29 19:54:16 <etotheipi_> (unless they had the exact same random num generation as you)
1249 2012-01-29 19:54:16 <graingert> 1MoRonSXNTMMJnJdxDDSnBdjh4mNEEr739
1250 2012-01-29 19:54:47 <Moron__> i wanted a lower case R
1251 2012-01-29 19:54:53 <gmaxwell> the vanityness of it encourages someone comparing addresses to only check the sensible part.
1252 2012-01-29 19:55:02 <splatster> new macbook pros 15 inch come with an ATI 6770M
1253 2012-01-29 19:55:20 <Joric> i spend 4 hours already :[
1254 2012-01-29 19:55:38 <splatster> Joric: What's your current problem?
1255 2012-01-29 19:55:54 <splatster> Maybe we can all put some work into debugging this
1256 2012-01-29 19:56:11 <Moron__> i wanna use my bitcoins but i think i have a trojan on my pc
1257 2012-01-29 19:56:19 <Moron__> windows keep saying something about virus checking
1258 2012-01-29 19:56:21 <Joric> well i got to some stl-related problem
1259 2012-01-29 19:56:22 <Moron__> and wanting me to enable it
1260 2012-01-29 19:56:26 <graingert> 1MoronfoWYGZgiz1kf4ktPEnwf2zCAtkpc
1261 2012-01-29 19:56:31 <Moron__> because of a threat?
1262 2012-01-29 19:56:39 <Moron__> ohh thanks graingert, whats the private key of that?
1263 2012-01-29 19:56:41 <Joric> is not a member of swig::traits and such
1264 2012-01-29 19:57:05 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: will you support BIP 17 now that Gavin has kindly solved the 1000-input limit? :p
1265 2012-01-29 19:57:07 <Joric> removed ports trying homebrew
1266 2012-01-29 19:57:25 <Joric> probably i have to add more dependencies
1267 2012-01-29 19:57:33 XX01XX has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1268 2012-01-29 19:58:19 <Moron__> Hey
1269 2012-01-29 19:58:20 <graingert> Moron__: you know that I know the private key?
1270 2012-01-29 19:58:26 <graingert> right?
1271 2012-01-29 19:58:33 <Moron__> is it possible to use M-OF-N transactions to create democratic funds...
1272 2012-01-29 19:58:37 <Joric> moron is not a very good nick imho
1273 2012-01-29 19:58:47 <Moron__> ie, give everyone in the irc channel a key... to a wallet with some funds in
1274 2012-01-29 19:58:53 <Moron__> and only allow it to be spent if 2/3rd agree>?
1275 2012-01-29 19:59:03 <marf_away> demcracy yeah
1276 2012-01-29 19:59:22 <gmaxwell> Joric: it's only a bad nick because its not being used by a more deserving party.
1277 2012-01-29 19:59:29 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: maybe!
1278 2012-01-29 19:59:38 <graingert> yeah, but the resultant bitcoin address will be will not be vanity
1279 2012-01-29 19:59:49 <Moron__> oh
1280 2012-01-29 19:59:50 <luke-jr> I suppose I need to actually implement it… hmm
1281 2012-01-29 19:59:53 * luke-jr ponders
1282 2012-01-29 19:59:54 <Moron__> it doesnt have to be graingert
1283 2012-01-29 20:00:01 <graingert> IC
1284 2012-01-29 20:00:26 <Moron__> democratic funds could be really useful in large open source projects
1285 2012-01-29 20:00:37 <graingert> I wonder how blockchain.info deals with two people owning the same privkey
1286 2012-01-29 20:00:39 <Moron__> if people want a feature implemented, they could vote with their keys
1287 2012-01-29 20:01:24 <etotheipi_> Moron__, see https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts #3
1288 2012-01-29 20:01:25 <gmaxwell> graingert: what do you mean deals with?
1289 2012-01-29 20:01:40 <graingert> gmaxwell: yes, I was assuming it would have no extra logic
1290 2012-01-29 20:01:44 <graingert> whereas mtgox does
1291 2012-01-29 20:01:46 <etotheipi_> it's not exactly democracy, but it's an elegant way to establish weighted "voting"
1292 2012-01-29 20:01:54 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1293 2012-01-29 20:02:16 <graingert> gmaxwell: I'm talking about blockchain.info/wallet
1294 2012-01-29 20:02:23 <graingert> not just the explorer
1295 2012-01-29 20:03:26 <gmaxwell> wow, genjix's "The Truth behind BIP 16 and 17" on the form has reduced my respect for him.
1296 2012-01-29 20:03:41 <etotheipi_> he's a pretty polarized/polarizing kind of guy
1297 2012-01-29 20:03:57 <gmaxwell> He's a piece of shit.
1298 2012-01-29 20:04:00 <gmaxwell> "
1299 2012-01-29 20:04:01 <gmaxwell> Other developers disagree with giving this information away "
1300 2012-01-29 20:04:08 <Moron__> hmm
1301 2012-01-29 20:04:13 <Moron__> whats he trying to propose gmaxwell?
1302 2012-01-29 20:04:14 <gmaxwell> Thats a lot of BS there.
1303 2012-01-29 20:04:15 <splatster> I see the tx you sent me in blockchain.info but not in my client
1304 2012-01-29 20:04:19 <graingert> it's on the wiki
1305 2012-01-29 20:04:22 <graingert> and in IRC
1306 2012-01-29 20:04:29 <etotheipi_> splatster, the 0.5 I sent you?
1307 2012-01-29 20:04:30 <graingert> at the minimum
1308 2012-01-29 20:04:35 <splatster> etotheipi_: ya
1309 2012-01-29 20:04:53 <etotheipi_> splatster, it looks to me it's still got zero confirmations
1310 2012-01-29 20:04:57 <etotheipi_> are you looking for it through Armory?
1311 2012-01-29 20:05:13 <splatster> but it isn't even showing up as unconfirmed in bitcoin client
1312 2012-01-29 20:06:07 <splatster> I have to go for a bit
1313 2012-01-29 20:06:20 <splatster> cyall later
1314 2012-01-29 20:06:29 splatster is now known as splatster|away
1315 2012-01-29 20:08:01 <graingert> !seen gavinanderson
1316 2012-01-29 20:08:01 <gribble> I have not seen gavinanderson.
1317 2012-01-29 20:08:12 <graingert> am I spelling that wrong
1318 2012-01-29 20:08:15 <graingert> like a numpty
1319 2012-01-29 20:08:15 <BlueMatt> ;;seen gavinandresen
1320 2012-01-29 20:08:16 <gribble> gavinandresen was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 day, 3 hours, 23 minutes, and 23 seconds ago: <gavinandresen> ask me later, busy right now
1321 2012-01-29 20:08:30 <graingert> I'm a numpty
1322 2012-01-29 20:08:43 <BlueMatt> mr anderson
1323 2012-01-29 20:09:02 <graingert> and that's how I was pronouncing it also
1324 2012-01-29 20:09:04 <graingert> :<
1325 2012-01-29 20:09:19 <BlueMatt> meh, took me a while to notice the difference too
1326 2012-01-29 20:10:17 <graingert> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XooISvoZ_rs
1327 2012-01-29 20:10:50 <BlueMatt> gavin == mr. anderson
1328 2012-01-29 20:10:55 <BlueMatt> gavin is the one
1329 2012-01-29 20:11:00 <graingert> okay
1330 2012-01-29 20:11:10 <graingert> 1btc to someone who repurposes that video
1331 2012-01-29 20:11:17 <BlueMatt> heh
1332 2012-01-29 20:11:23 <graingert> to say andreson every-time it's anderson
1333 2012-01-29 20:11:35 <graingert> neo->gavin
1334 2012-01-29 20:12:02 <graingert> morpheus -> satoshi
1335 2012-01-29 20:12:10 <BlueMatt> heh
1336 2012-01-29 20:13:25 <Joric> http://i.imgur.com/WHKKw.jpg
1337 2012-01-29 20:13:36 <BlueMatt> bullshit
1338 2012-01-29 20:13:39 <BlueMatt> that is so wrong
1339 2012-01-29 20:13:51 <BlueMatt> chuck norris could kick all their asses
1340 2012-01-29 20:14:16 <graingert> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pnFg0Sp2Xw
1341 2012-01-29 20:14:18 <Joric> phew /usr/local/Cellar/swig/2.0.4: 593 files, 6.3M, built in 4.1 minutes
1342 2012-01-29 20:14:46 <Joric> try 2
1343 2012-01-29 20:15:04 <BlueMatt> graingert: I refuse to believe that is chuck norris
1344 2012-01-29 20:16:05 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
1345 2012-01-29 20:16:44 <graingert> BlueMatt: that's a little hypocritical
1346 2012-01-29 20:17:10 <BlueMatt> graingert: dont mess with chuck norris
1347 2012-01-29 20:17:16 <Joric> he's talking about chuck norris religion
1348 2012-01-29 20:17:25 lfm has quit (Quit: bye)
1349 2012-01-29 20:17:37 <lyspooner> chuck norris supports BIP16
1350 2012-01-29 20:17:49 <graingert> well it just shows that even chuck norris can destroy chuck norris
1351 2012-01-29 20:18:30 <BlueMatt> s/even/only/
1352 2012-01-29 20:18:37 <graingert> yes
1353 2012-01-29 20:19:09 <graingert> if chuck norris can defeat anything, can he defeat chuck norris. answer: yes
1354 2012-01-29 20:22:08 <luke-jr> can OP_IF/NOTIF be nested?
1355 2012-01-29 20:22:49 <Joric> just make two battle robots named bip16 and bip17 and let them fight each other
1356 2012-01-29 20:23:05 <luke-jr> Joric: BIP 17 has basically won IMO
1357 2012-01-29 20:23:13 <BlueMatt> are you kidding me?
1358 2012-01-29 20:23:35 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: there is no winner here. this is like atomic war. The only winner is the roaches.
1359 2012-01-29 20:23:38 <luke-jr> BIP 16's demonstrated how easy it is for it to break things in new and unexpected ways, and Gavin solved the one real concern with BIP 17 earlier
1360 2012-01-29 20:24:09 <BlueMatt> god at this point we should just kill p2sh and move on with life
1361 2012-01-29 20:24:24 <luke-jr> …
1362 2012-01-29 20:24:36 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: I'm probably going to just give up on bitcoin as a result of this, I haven't been this stressed out and unhappy in months.
1363 2012-01-29 20:24:36 <luke-jr> so anyhow, nesting OP_IFs?
1364 2012-01-29 20:24:37 theymos has joined
1365 2012-01-29 20:24:39 <BlueMatt> this whole luke-jr vs gavin crap where luke-jr pretends hes god and gavin tries to reason with an ignorant prick is getting old
1366 2012-01-29 20:25:06 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: troll
1367 2012-01-29 20:25:16 devrandom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1368 2012-01-29 20:25:18 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: I dont blame you, hence why Ive been mostly keeping out of p2sh
1369 2012-01-29 20:25:18 <luke-jr> Gavin is the one arguing with authority, and I the one with logic
1370 2012-01-29 20:25:34 wasabi1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1371 2012-01-29 20:25:35 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: you're mostly using a really painful form of dogmatism.
1372 2012-01-29 20:25:44 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: many of your arguments have been pretty obviously over the top.
1373 2012-01-29 20:25:56 <gmaxwell> It detracts from their merits and makes people not want to work with you.
1374 2012-01-29 20:26:13 <gmaxwell> e.g. saying that BIP16 destroys bitcoin.
1375 2012-01-29 20:27:03 devrandom has joined
1376 2012-01-29 20:27:10 <gmaxwell> And those comments have fuled people like genjix who are using them to further generate hysteria, to god knows what end. I hope you're proud. :(
1377 2012-01-29 20:27:33 <luke-jr> my time is better spent implementing over-1000-inputs multisig than arguing
1378 2012-01-29 20:27:34 <Moron__> nobody can defeat a true jedi BlueMatt!
1379 2012-01-29 20:27:40 <Moron__> ohps scrolled to wrong position
1380 2012-01-29 20:27:42 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: but no seriously, just let p2sh go let it deal with itself
1381 2012-01-29 20:27:43 <luke-jr> code looks like nested OP_IF is OK
1382 2012-01-29 20:28:17 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: I suck at that. :( also, .. what about the next thing?
1383 2012-01-29 20:28:27 <Joric> check out my charting skills http://goo.gl/1DQYM
1384 2012-01-29 20:28:31 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: let the next thing that gets overly political deal with itself
1385 2012-01-29 20:28:41 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: do stuff that people wont argue with you about
1386 2012-01-29 20:28:58 <gmaxwell> Will I post some update to IRC behavior and end up with genjix posting "The Truth behind the IRC changes ... what the developers don't want you to know!"
1387 2012-01-29 20:28:59 <luke-jr> like deterministic keys! <.<
1388 2012-01-29 20:29:18 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: dude, p2sh is about the least political thing possible! if that was politized anything could be!
1389 2012-01-29 20:29:23 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: to be fair, he did say *some* developers, not all
1390 2012-01-29 20:29:24 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: it's uber technical minutia.
1391 2012-01-29 20:29:30 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1392 2012-01-29 20:29:49 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: the next thing that gets political, nothing is political to begin with, it just goes that way
1393 2012-01-29 20:29:54 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: I know he's refering to me specifically because I flamed him for his proposed writup, saying that it would create confusion.
1394 2012-01-29 20:30:13 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I didn't get that impression at all.
1395 2012-01-29 20:30:16 NxTitle has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1396 2012-01-29 20:30:20 <theymos> His article's technical explanation is very confusing...
1397 2012-01-29 20:30:24 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: (though I _do_ want people to know about it— and I pointed him to my description in #bitcoin-mining that explained it factually without making it sound like a big controversy)
1398 2012-01-29 20:30:42 <BlueMatt> where the hell did genjix post that?
1399 2012-01-29 20:30:51 <Joric> if it'll continue to grow it would be atleast 4-5 gigs in 2013
1400 2012-01-29 20:30:54 <gmaxwell> theymos: I think he doesn't quite understand it very well himself, based on the posts he made to the devlist last night.
1401 2012-01-29 20:31:05 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=61705.0
1402 2012-01-29 20:31:24 TD has joined
1403 2012-01-29 20:31:50 <luke-jr> can anyone build better scripts than these? http://pastebin.com/uKAkQvLm
1404 2012-01-29 20:32:16 <BlueMatt> wow just the first like 3 lines of that article are bullshit
1405 2012-01-29 20:32:19 <luke-jr> Good read, genjix, albeit I didn't understand half of it. <-- LOL
1406 2012-01-29 20:32:22 <BlueMatt> telling people to go vote
1407 2012-01-29 20:32:42 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: yes, it was pointed out to him that this was bogus.
1408 2012-01-29 20:33:08 <BlueMatt> thats what half the discussion yesterday was
1409 2012-01-29 20:33:32 <theymos> He also seems to not be so familiar with English -- the article was full of very odd phrasing. For example: "Barging the script data allows the usage of specialised bitcoin addresses using BIP 0013."
1410 2012-01-29 20:33:44 RazielZ has joined
1411 2012-01-29 20:34:53 <Joric> it's British
1412 2012-01-29 20:35:20 <k9quaint> allowing laypeople to vote on concept in which they have no real understanding is a flawed prospect to begin with
1413 2012-01-29 20:35:36 <k9quaint> *concepts
1414 2012-01-29 20:36:01 <BlueMatt> we had this discussion with genjix yesterday
1415 2012-01-29 20:36:11 baz has joined
1416 2012-01-29 20:36:20 <BlueMatt> we all went on and on about how he shouldnt be posting crap like that and he posted it anyway...
1417 2012-01-29 20:36:21 <luke-jr> k9quaint: I think genjix was *trying* to get laypeople to understand
1418 2012-01-29 20:36:45 <k9quaint> luke-jr: a noble effort, as is all forms of education ;)
1419 2012-01-29 20:37:36 <k9quaint> BlueMatt: had he should have done so without the political angle, leave the entire "vote" subplot on the cutting room floor and just focus on an explanation
1420 2012-01-29 20:37:48 <k9quaint> jesus did I butcher that thought
1421 2012-01-29 20:37:54 <k9quaint> afk coffee :|
1422 2012-01-29 20:37:54 <gmaxwell> I did also point him to my description of the technicalities which I thought was less politically loaded.. but he stuck with the politically loaded description, and even cranked it up a few notches. :(
1423 2012-01-29 20:37:56 <BlueMatt> k9quaint: thats another part of the discussion yesterday
1424 2012-01-29 20:38:04 <BlueMatt> k9quaint: normal users dont have a vote, thats the way it is
1425 2012-01-29 20:38:05 <theymos> Joric: Is it? I've never heard that before, and I didn't see that usage in the dictionaries I checked at the time.
1426 2012-01-29 20:38:09 <gmaxwell> k9quaint: yea. Glad to hear you a gree. :(
1427 2012-01-29 20:38:10 <BlueMatt> k9quaint: but genjix doesnt care
1428 2012-01-29 20:38:27 <k9quaint> gmaxwell: you call me a gree?
1429 2012-01-29 20:38:33 <k9quaint> you wanna step outside sir?
1430 2012-01-29 20:38:47 <k9quaint> yo mamma's a gree
1431 2012-01-29 20:38:50 <gmaxwell> maybe he thought he had to hype that in order to get the attention of joe-blow who otherwise wouldn't care about technical minutia?
1432 2012-01-29 20:39:13 <gmaxwell> k9quaint: hah. "Gree Electric Appliances Inc. is a Chinese white goods manufacturer located in Zhuha"
1433 2012-01-29 20:39:14 TD_ has joined
1434 2012-01-29 20:39:19 <gmaxwell> ... Not sure if thats a compliment or not.
1435 2012-01-29 20:40:44 <k9quaint> you are just jealous of my white goods
1436 2012-01-29 20:42:09 <luke-jr> so back to actual development… can anyone check out my first draft? http://pastebin.com/uKAkQvLm
1437 2012-01-29 20:42:40 <k9quaint> Gree: The Gree were a species of tentacled gray cephalopods from the planet Gree. Each Gree had six tentacles and an over-sized head, in comparison to baseline and near-human body proportions, and stood between 0.8 and 1.2 meters tall.
1438 2012-01-29 20:42:40 TD has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1439 2012-01-29 20:42:41 TD_ is now known as TD
1440 2012-01-29 20:43:40 eoss has joined
1441 2012-01-29 20:44:27 <theymos> Instead of doing the BIP 16 behavior upon matching a scriptPubKey, what do you guys think about doing it when nLockTime==1. I think using nLockTime as a flag like this would be safe, and then you don't need to use an extra byte in the script for a flag.
1442 2012-01-29 20:45:09 <theymos> (With the goal of getting more elegance over the current BIP 16 proposal, I mean.)
1443 2012-01-29 20:45:43 eoss has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1444 2012-01-29 20:45:47 d1scordian_ has joined
1445 2012-01-29 20:45:55 d1scordian_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1446 2012-01-29 20:45:57 nameless has joined
1447 2012-01-29 20:46:03 d1scordian_ has joined
1448 2012-01-29 20:48:49 d1scordian has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1449 2012-01-29 20:48:50 d1scordian_ is now known as d1scordian
1450 2012-01-29 20:51:16 piuk has joined
1451 2012-01-29 20:53:15 maqr has joined
1452 2012-01-29 20:54:35 <piuk> Evening, can anyone see a problem with the following transaction or know why it won't pass IsStandard()
1453 2012-01-29 20:54:36 <piuk> 1 04cc71eb30d653c0c3163990c47b976f3fb3f37cccdcbedb169a1dfef58bbfbfaff7d8a473e7e2e6d317b87bafe8bde97e3cf8f065dec022b51d11fcdd0d348ac4 04cc71eb30d653c0c3163990c47b976f3fb3f37cccdcbedb169a1dfef58bbfbfaff7d8a473e7e2e6d317b87bafe8bde97e3cf8f065dec022b51d11fcdd0d348ac4 2 OP_CHECKMULTISIG
1454 2012-01-29 20:54:42 _Fireball has joined
1455 2012-01-29 20:55:05 <piuk> *txOut i means
1456 2012-01-29 20:55:15 <BlueMatt> when were CHECKMULTISIG txes added to IsStandard()?
1457 2012-01-29 20:56:00 <luke-jr> when OP_EVAL was merged
1458 2012-01-29 20:56:06 <piuk> Solver() has a template mTemplates.insert(make_pair(TX_MULTISIG, CScript() << OP_SMALLINTEGER << OP_PUBKEYS << OP_SMALLINTEGER << OP_CHECKMULTISIG)); in the latest git
1459 2012-01-29 20:57:32 <lianj> 1 is OP_TRUE (opcode 81) and not the number 1
1460 2012-01-29 20:58:10 <piuk> Ah Thank you that makes sense
1461 2012-01-29 20:58:57 <piuk> and OP_2 for n?
1462 2012-01-29 20:59:19 TD_ has joined
1463 2012-01-29 21:02:33 torsthaldo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1464 2012-01-29 21:03:57 splatster is now known as away!~splatster@unaffiliated/splatster|splatster
1465 2012-01-29 21:04:05 TD has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1466 2012-01-29 21:04:05 TD_ is now known as TD
1467 2012-01-29 21:04:17 <piuk> 81 04cc71eb30d653c0c3163990c47b976f3fb3f37cccdcbedb169a1dfef58bbfbfaff7d8a473e7e2e6d317b87bafe8bde97e3cf8f065dec022b51d11fcdd0d348ac4 0461cbdcc5409fb4b4d42b51d33381354d80e550078cb532a34bfa2fcfdeb7d76519aecc62770f5b0e4ef8551946d8a540911abe3e7854a26f39f58b25c15342af 2 OP_CHECKMULTISIG
1468 2012-01-29 21:04:25 <piuk> gets rejectected also
1469 2012-01-29 21:04:28 <piuk> *rejected
1470 2012-01-29 21:04:41 <piuk> and 81 04cc71eb30d653c0c3163990c47b976f3fb3f37cccdcbedb169a1dfef58bbfbfaff7d8a473e7e2e6d317b87bafe8bde97e3cf8f065dec022b51d11fcdd0d348ac4 0461cbdcc5409fb4b4d42b51d33381354d80e550078cb532a34bfa2fcfdeb7d76519aecc62770f5b0e4ef8551946d8a540911abe3e7854a26f39f58b25c15342af 82 OP_CHECKMULTISIG
1471 2012-01-29 21:04:47 torsthaldo has joined
1472 2012-01-29 21:04:56 <lianj> sure
1473 2012-01-29 21:05:01 <piuk> ignore that - my mistake
1474 2012-01-29 21:05:07 <etotheipi_> btw, on the topic of multisig... are non-standard hashcodes (on signatures) simply "non-standard?"  or completely disabled?
1475 2012-01-29 21:06:34 <lianj> piuk: i think 1-of-2 will not work anyway
1476 2012-01-29 21:06:37 <TD> AFAIK SIGHASH codes are not checked as part of the IsStandard checks
1477 2012-01-29 21:06:42 <TD> but i never tried it to find out for sure
1478 2012-01-29 21:07:07 <etotheipi_> TD, does that mean they might work, already?
1479 2012-01-29 21:07:12 <TD> perhaps
1480 2012-01-29 21:07:18 <TD> try it out on a testnet and see
1481 2012-01-29 21:07:33 <etotheipi_> yeah, I'm kinda busy right now (and don't have them handled in my client, yet)
1482 2012-01-29 21:07:40 <TD> right
1483 2012-01-29 21:07:42 <etotheipi_> I just wanted to know if it's something I can start integrating, because I have some use for them
1484 2012-01-29 21:07:52 <TD> what are you going to do with them?
1485 2012-01-29 21:08:12 <TD> i put some uses on the contracts page, but there's a lot of work to do before those examples get deployed in reality
1486 2012-01-29 21:08:14 <etotheipi_> buyer-seller escrow agreement without a third-party
1487 2012-01-29 21:08:28 <TD> so burn-the-coins on dispute then?
1488 2012-01-29 21:08:39 <splatster> Joric: you need any help?
1489 2012-01-29 21:08:47 <etotheipi_> oh wait... I"m getting my contracts mixed up
1490 2012-01-29 21:08:59 <etotheipi_> so I plan to do two-factor-authentication without a third-party
1491 2012-01-29 21:09:07 <Joric> looks like swig is too new i'm trying 1.2.25
1492 2012-01-29 21:09:15 <TD> most of the designs i've seen for that require CHECKMULTISIG or an equivalent
1493 2012-01-29 21:09:46 <etotheipi_> but for buyer/seller escrow, there will be a third party... but in order to actually create the escrow, I need an easy way for both parties to create the initial transaction
1494 2012-01-29 21:10:20 <etotheipi_> if buyer is purchasing something for X BTC, then buyer and seller will have to include a deposit of each 0.1*X, to be returned at the end of the trx
1495 2012-01-29 21:10:24 <splatster> Joric: So swig isn't compatible with other dependencies?
1496 2012-01-29 21:10:41 <Joric> i guess it's gcc
1497 2012-01-29 21:10:51 <etotheipi_> but to seed such an agreement, buyer and seller both need to contribute their money in the same 2-of-3 tx
1498 2012-01-29 21:11:19 <etotheipi_> without hashcodes, it would require a protocol for one person to specify an address and a change address, so that the other person can prepare the tx
1499 2012-01-29 21:11:58 <etotheipi_> it's a lot simpler if they can just agree on the terms beforehand, use hashcodes to sign individually, and then party A doesn't have to worry about which addresses party B will be using
1500 2012-01-29 21:12:29 <TD> i don't think multi-step protocols are anything to fear
1501 2012-01-29 21:12:33 <TD> most interesting contracts seem to require them
1502 2012-01-29 21:13:03 <TD> bear in mind if you sign with SIGHASH_NONE then the money can be stolen from you. you aren't signing for what happens with the value
1503 2012-01-29 21:13:19 <TD> true zero-trust protocols tend to need multiple exchanges, i think
1504 2012-01-29 21:14:37 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1505 2012-01-29 21:16:04 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r09744a288f63 eloipool/jsonrpcserver.py: Bugfix: if there is still data to write to the socket, defer socket close until that's done http://tinyurl.com/839axlp
1506 2012-01-29 21:17:12 kobier has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1507 2012-01-29 21:18:43 <etotheipi_> TD, the point is there's a hashcode specifically for it
1508 2012-01-29 21:18:58 <etotheipi_> why complicate a protocol when a simpler function is already built in
1509 2012-01-29 21:19:27 <etotheipi_> but I do agree, multi-step protocols will be part of the future of Bitcoin... it's just that minimizing the number of steps make it easier for both users and develoeprs
1510 2012-01-29 21:19:28 <TD> if you can do it in a zero-trust manner without any extra steps, that's great
1511 2012-01-29 21:19:49 kobier has joined
1512 2012-01-29 21:19:52 <etotheipi_> TD, both parties know in advance how much is going into the 2-of-3 tx
1513 2012-01-29 21:19:57 Clown has joined
1514 2012-01-29 21:19:58 <etotheipi_> they don't need SIGHASH_NONE
1515 2012-01-29 21:20:09 <TD> ok
1516 2012-01-29 21:20:14 <TD> i don't really understand the protocol being proposed
1517 2012-01-29 21:20:18 <TD> maybe write it up on the forum?
1518 2012-01-29 21:20:23 Clown is now known as Guest76802
1519 2012-01-29 21:20:26 <etotheipi_> it's been discussed quite a few times
1520 2012-01-29 21:20:57 <TD> then either i missed those discussions or i'm not sure which protocol you are referring toi
1521 2012-01-29 21:20:58 <etotheipi_> it's just the buyer/seller escrow, except that both buyer and seller add an extra X% to the tx in order to give both parties (more) incentive to complete the tx
1522 2012-01-29 21:21:03 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r4ae0aad11345 cgminer/adl.c: Revert "Set iSize for thermal device enum first." http://tinyurl.com/86p5tq9
1523 2012-01-29 21:21:04 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r430a19543ede cgminer/ (adl.c miner.h): Revert "Read off lpThermalControllerInfo from each ADL device." http://tinyurl.com/7jutyqs
1524 2012-01-29 21:21:05 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * rcdcaaba630e8 cgminer/adl.c: Revert "Add ADL_Overdrive5_ThermalDevices_Enum interface." http://tinyurl.com/7qj57wc
1525 2012-01-29 21:21:07 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r5747b070de14 cgminer/main.c: Fix unused warning. http://tinyurl.com/74nls4l
1526 2012-01-29 21:21:51  has quit (Clown|!~clown@static-87-79-93-140.netcologne.de|Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1527 2012-01-29 21:22:04 TheCoolGuy_ has joined
1528 2012-01-29 21:22:08 <TD> alright. but as part of setting up an escrow/mediated transaction you have to exchange keys anyway
1529 2012-01-29 21:22:18 TheCoolGuy_ has quit (Client Quit)
1530 2012-01-29 21:22:32 <TD> and the seller has to challenge the mediator with one of those keys to prove ownership
1531 2012-01-29 21:23:09 <TD> at least in the protocol i put on the contracts page
1532 2012-01-29 21:23:25 <etotheipi_> okay, I'll add something when I get around to considering it more rigorously
1533 2012-01-29 21:23:27 <TD> you could add another output to the contract going back to yourself and then send more value to the merchants key
1534 2012-01-29 21:23:42 <TD> that would indeed provide additional incentive to complete the trade, though i guess both sides are already incentivized to do that
1535 2012-01-29 21:23:43 <etotheipi_> I really just wanted to know if the other hashcodes were available, so I know whether to even think about it
1536 2012-01-29 21:23:50 <TD> i think they probably are
1537 2012-01-29 21:23:52 <TD> but i never tested it
1538 2012-01-29 21:25:15 <lianj> piuk: sorry, looks like 1-of-2 works
1539 2012-01-29 21:25:30 booo has joined
1540 2012-01-29 21:28:11 <BlueMatt> is it sad when your phone loses 6% battery power in like 20 minutes while plugged in?
1541 2012-01-29 21:28:47 <TD> what's it doing ?
1542 2012-01-29 21:29:00 <gmaxwell> mining!
1543 2012-01-29 21:29:02 <BlueMatt> 3g + 4g in a cement room where signal is like 1%
1544 2012-01-29 21:29:11 <BlueMatt> data kills battery
1545 2012-01-29 21:31:05 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * rf0746f0b4c19 cgminer/adl.c: Display error codes should ADL not return ADL_OK in the more critical function calls. http://tinyurl.com/7yk4363
1546 2012-01-29 21:34:25 devrandom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1547 2012-01-29 21:35:02 devrandom has joined
1548 2012-01-29 21:36:21 baz has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1549 2012-01-29 21:38:36 baz has joined
1550 2012-01-29 21:39:29 sgstair has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1551 2012-01-29 21:40:37 sgstair has joined
1552 2012-01-29 21:40:52 poiuh has joined
1553 2012-01-29 21:41:03 ThomasV_ has joined
1554 2012-01-29 21:43:53 <graingert> BlueMatt: get yourself a 3g repeater
1555 2012-01-29 21:44:44 <BlueMatt> graingert: meh, it works just loses battery
1556 2012-01-29 21:46:15 <graingert> yeah, so get a repeater
1557 2012-01-29 21:46:28 <graingert> and then it wont
1558 2012-01-29 21:46:59 <BlueMatt> meh, if I dont use it the battery goes back up, so its not a big deal
1559 2012-01-29 21:47:00 <etotheipi_> doesn't someone here know whether non-std hashcodes are disabled or not?
1560 2012-01-29 21:47:01 wirehead` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1561 2012-01-29 21:47:01 <graingert> or have it disable 3g/4g based on GPS
1562 2012-01-29 21:47:02 <splatster> etotheipi_: Casascius sent you that silver 10 BTC for free?!
1563 2012-01-29 21:47:14 <etotheipi_> splatster, yes, he did
1564 2012-01-29 21:47:24 <etotheipi_> he has a $500 bounty for the private-key import/sweep functionality
1565 2012-01-29 21:47:29 <splatster> Jealousy
1566 2012-01-29 21:47:37 <etotheipi_> I'll probably get the rest of it if I fix the RAM issue
1567 2012-01-29 21:47:42 <etotheipi_> (hopefully :))
1568 2012-01-29 21:48:01 <Joric> etotheipi_: can't compile i continue tomorrow :( looks like swig cxx is incompatible with gcc i tried swig 1.2.25 1.3.31 2.0.0 2.0.4 they
1569 2012-01-29 21:48:11 <Joric> are all produce different results
1570 2012-01-29 21:48:46 <etotheipi_> ugh...
1571 2012-01-29 21:48:58 <etotheipi_> I've heard that swig doesn't play nice with OSX
1572 2012-01-29 21:49:09 <etotheipi_> didn't expect it to be this much of a mess
1573 2012-01-29 21:49:56 <poiuh> brofalo
1574 2012-01-29 21:51:01 Joric has quit (Quit: Joric)
1575 2012-01-29 21:54:00 poiuh has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1576 2012-01-29 21:54:02 barmstrong has joined
1577 2012-01-29 21:54:21 barmstrong has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1578 2012-01-29 21:54:28 barmstrong has joined
1579 2012-01-29 22:00:08 MrMister1981 has joined
1580 2012-01-29 22:00:37 <MrMister1981> Hello
1581 2012-01-29 22:01:01 MrMister1981 has quit (Client Quit)
1582 2012-01-29 22:13:24 Diablo-D3 has joined
1583 2012-01-29 22:23:28 lyspooner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 8.0.1/20111120135848])
1584 2012-01-29 22:25:32 h4ckm3 has joined
1585 2012-01-29 22:31:02 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r891960389e90 cgminer/adl.c: Don't fail in the case the number of ADL and OpenCL devices do not match, and do ... http://tinyurl.com/7gj9bug
1586 2012-01-29 22:32:38 pusle has quit ()
1587 2012-01-29 22:42:15 d1scordian_ has joined
1588 2012-01-29 22:42:47 user_ has joined
1589 2012-01-29 22:44:40 d1scordian has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1590 2012-01-29 22:44:40 d1scordian_ is now known as d1scordian
1591 2012-01-29 22:50:27 ThomasV_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1592 2012-01-29 23:01:03 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * r176bbcbc797f cgminer/adl.c: Display GPU ordering remapping in verbose mode. http://tinyurl.com/8x3aey8
1593 2012-01-29 23:06:09 b4epoche has joined
1594 2012-01-29 23:06:50 b4epoche_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1595 2012-01-29 23:08:09 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1596 2012-01-29 23:08:56 user_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1597 2012-01-29 23:11:06 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r0f81e91c6f9f eloipool/jsonrpcserver.py: Ignore read data on "closed" sockets http://tinyurl.com/6w3me7o
1598 2012-01-29 23:11:07 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r0b9a9cc72dfe eloipool/jsonrpcserver.py: Bugfix: Don't error trying to write to peer-closed sockets http://tinyurl.com/7bhv3dq
1599 2012-01-29 23:11:13 a_meteorite has joined
1600 2012-01-29 23:12:32 theorbtwo has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1601 2012-01-29 23:12:34 _Fireball has quit (Quit:  HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- s0 d4Mn l33t |t'z 5c4rY!)
1602 2012-01-29 23:13:52 wasabi1 has joined
1603 2012-01-29 23:14:20 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1604 2012-01-29 23:15:40 rdponticelli_ has joined
1605 2012-01-29 23:15:42 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1606 2012-01-29 23:21:04 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Con Kolivas * ra73156ac763f cgminer/adl.c: Display GPU number and device name when ADL is successfully enabled on it. http://tinyurl.com/7dcaeyj
1607 2012-01-29 23:26:43 genjix has joined
1608 2012-01-29 23:26:50 <genjix> BlueMatt: hey
1609 2012-01-29 23:27:16 <genjix> every BIP needs a champion who defends the BIP. would you be willing to be the owner of BIP 21?
1610 2012-01-29 23:28:11 <gmaxwell> I'd like to ask everyone here to ignore genjix until he complies with my request on the forum to undo the misleading bolding of my comments.
1611 2012-01-29 23:29:21 <genjix> gmaxwell: check your forum PM.
1612 2012-01-29 23:29:59 <tcatm> Can you give me a link to the post(s)?
1613 2012-01-29 23:30:17 <gmaxwell> tcatm: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=61705.msg721050#msg721050
1614 2012-01-29 23:30:29 <genjix> tcatm: sure https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=61705.msg721050#msg721050
1615 2012-01-29 23:30:48 <genjix> that post is my last involvement in the drama
1616 2012-01-29 23:31:07 <tcatm> Oh, still BIP16/17 :)
1617 2012-01-29 23:31:23 <gmaxwell> genjix: I think your behavior here is reprehensible. I said as much previously. I'm really unhappy with you attempting to paint my position as being opposed to informing people, especially I've expended considerable effort to do so.
1618 2012-01-29 23:31:45 <gmaxwell> genjix: and I think that if you can't see why I'd be unhappy about that, then there is simply something wrong with you, to be frank.
1619 2012-01-29 23:31:46 <lianj> BIP 23 is the BIP to remove the BIP system
1620 2012-01-29 23:32:33 <genjix> gmaxwell: i am not attempting to say any such thing.
1621 2012-01-29 23:32:47 <genjix> can you check your forum PM?
1622 2012-01-29 23:33:34 <genjix> i invited you to write a bitcoin media article challenging my assertions. also you are the one who accused me on the forums of trying to deliberately mislead people.
1623 2012-01-29 23:33:43 <gmaxwell> Oh? It looks like that to me. Especially in the context of "The Truth behind BIP 16 and 17 [...] Other developers disagree with giving this information away"
1624 2012-01-29 23:34:06 piuk has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1625 2012-01-29 23:34:11 <genjix> yes i was attacked for writing that article.
1626 2012-01-29 23:34:21 <genjix> it's even happening now.
1627 2012-01-29 23:35:14 <gmaxwell> genjix: Several people in here told you that the presentation of this simply as a vote is misleading. You ignored them. You didn't even point out that people are saying this is not a vote in the article. The claim that you were intentionally misleading appears to be supported by the facts.
1628 2012-01-29 23:35:28 <tcatm> Take it down, rewrite/fix it and put it back up :)
1629 2012-01-29 23:36:33 <genjix> gmaxwell: nope. i got approval by email from justmoon who told me it was excellent
1630 2012-01-29 23:36:36 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: it is a vote. vote does not imply mere ballots.
1631 2012-01-29 23:36:40 <genjix> and he gave me many suggestions
1632 2012-01-29 23:36:58 <gmaxwell> genjix: Nope what?
1633 2012-01-29 23:37:06 <genjix> you did shit. only criticised me in a very petty and silly manner. i've tried to make amends and extend olive branches
1634 2012-01-29 23:37:22 <genjix> you just want drama and i am not going to participate in this. this is my last comment.
1635 2012-01-29 23:37:29 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: so what happens if you put CHV in your coinbase but run code enforcing BIP16 instead... Oh shit, CHV is deployed but the chain gets split and lots of people get robbed.
1636 2012-01-29 23:37:39 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: irrelevant.
1637 2012-01-29 23:37:43 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: the coinbase tokens are a measure to determine the safty of this. It's not a vote.
1638 2012-01-29 23:37:56 <gmaxwell> We need the support of the community to change bitcoin— not just miners.
1639 2012-01-29 23:37:59 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: it's a vote by merging support.
1640 2012-01-29 23:38:08 <sipa> it is a vote of deployment
1641 2012-01-29 23:38:14 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: yes, and I helped clarify that voting required applying patches, not just coinbase
1642 2012-01-29 23:38:23 <sipa> not a vote of coibase trings
1643 2012-01-29 23:38:32 <luke-jr> the original article draft said "just add to coinbase"; the final does not
1644 2012-01-29 23:38:33 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: perhaps because you're in charge of 400GH of other people's hash power you're happy to say that a coinbase tally is the right way to determine support, but I don't think thats good for bitcoin.
1645 2012-01-29 23:38:39 <luke-jr> the final says "to vote, apply the patches"
1646 2012-01-29 23:38:39 d1scordian_ has joined
1647 2012-01-29 23:38:53 theymos has joined
1648 2012-01-29 23:39:32 [Tycho] has joined
1649 2012-01-29 23:40:08 <gmaxwell> If miners were to force this by simple majority of hashing power, but the community opposed it — we'd call that a 50% attack.
1650 2012-01-29 23:40:27 MrTiggr has joined
1651 2012-01-29 23:40:36 <gmaxwell> genjix: You're being yelled at because you're promoting dispute where understanding should be promoted instead.
1652 2012-01-29 23:41:02 d1scordian has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1653 2012-01-29 23:41:03 d1scordian_ is now known as d1scordian
1654 2012-01-29 23:41:05 <CIA-97> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * rd0bfb43d8f9e eloipool/jsonrpcserver.py: Bugfix: Refactor JSONRPCHandler.cleanupLP to remove scheduled wakeLongpoll even if it's not part of the LPClients dict anymore (due to having been LP'd) http://tinyurl.com/7n9w76o
1655 2012-01-29 23:41:05 <gmaxwell> genjix: yes, people who enjoy the dispute or profit from it, are thankfor for that no doubt. But that isn't good for the bitcoin community. We need understanding and consensus.
1656 2012-01-29 23:41:29 [Tycho] has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1657 2012-01-29 23:42:03 <gmaxwell> Your post hasn't shed light on things, it sheds darkness. It results in uninformed responses like "the pressure was created by Gavin and Luke, in the first place, with not so accurate statements, personal attacks and a close deadline ahead. Now you only see the waves coming back."
1658 2012-01-29 23:42:23 <gmaxwell> people think these things, in the complete absense of information, because thats how you presented it.
1659 2012-01-29 23:42:24 <genjix> hey did you check my forum PM?
1660 2012-01-29 23:42:29 <genjix> write a response
1661 2012-01-29 23:42:34 <genjix> ill post it on bitcoin media
1662 2012-01-29 23:42:59 <genjix> *you post it rather
1663 2012-01-29 23:43:21 <gmaxwell> I wrote a nice explination of P2SH before your post. You ignored it. You ignored the other p2sh advantages as "technical minutia".
1664 2012-01-29 23:44:03 <gmaxwell> I will never write something bot "bitcoin media"— I won't legitimize your pulpit, since you've already demonstrated that you'll abuse it.
1665 2012-01-29 23:44:10 <genjix> you know, and i know, and you know that i know they are very minor points that are basically just more specific phrasing of the points already listed.
1666 2012-01-29 23:44:19 <genjix> ok good luck then
1667 2012-01-29 23:45:10 <gmaxwell> s/bot/for/
1668 2012-01-29 23:45:22 <gmaxwell> genjix: please go remove or equalize that bolding in your post.
1669 2012-01-29 23:45:38 <genjix> delete your post and ill delete mine.
1670 2012-01-29 23:45:40 <gmaxwell> Thats all I was demanding— I don't want equal time on your press.
1671 2012-01-29 23:45:41 <Moron__> looks like bitcoin is having alot of problems over this p2sh stuff
1672 2012-01-29 23:46:12 <tcatm> People are creating problems related to p2sh stuff ;)
1673 2012-01-29 23:46:14 <k9quaint> bitcoin is flypaper for hyperconservatives, and those types hate change
1674 2012-01-29 23:46:17 <gmaxwell> genjix: What did I say that you're unhappy with or think is unfair?
1675 2012-01-29 23:46:51 <genjix> im not playing this game. go away.
1676 2012-01-29 23:46:54 <gmaxwell> k9quaint: large groups tend to hyperconservativness. ... the status quo is the easiest thing to get a big group to agree to, alas.
1677 2012-01-29 23:46:56 <genjix> no drama.
1678 2012-01-29 23:47:23 <k9quaint> gmaxwell: that is another dynamic, except during/after periods of crisis
1679 2012-01-29 23:47:31 <theymos> You guys think it would be a good idea to put "Please do not post anything about P2SH/BIP16/ BIP17 unless you *really* understand the Bitcoin protocol deeply" in the forum news? Or would that make the situation worse?
1680 2012-01-29 23:47:43 <gmaxwell> genjix: If I've wronged you, I'll right it.
1681 2012-01-29 23:48:07 <k9quaint> theymos: make a CAPTCHA test, but instead of letters & words, make them answer questions about the protocol
1682 2012-01-29 23:48:16 <gmaxwell> theymos: *sigh* if you do something like that it should be stated more like "unless you want to take the time to really understand the bitcoin protocol"
1683 2012-01-29 23:48:38 wirehead has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1684 2012-01-29 23:48:41 <gmaxwell> theymos: since anyone who wants to take the time _can_, you shouldn't tell people who haven't yet to go away. I guess.
1685 2012-01-29 23:48:52 <genjix> gmaxwell: why don't you write your own explanations of the standards and post them somewhere?
1686 2012-01-29 23:49:09 <tcatm> theymos: I don't think that would help... there are a lot of other things that pepole don't know much about but still post unhelpful comments.
1687 2012-01-29 23:49:10 <genjix> i think that;s a good idea. ill put a link at the top of mine.
1688 2012-01-29 23:49:15 <gmaxwell> genjix: I _did_ and I encouraged you to pick up my #bitcoin-mining one.
1689 2012-01-29 23:49:20 <BlueMatt> ok, fuck it, lets do a 0.6 rc1 tomorrow that enables bip 16 and let miners figure the rest out
1690 2012-01-29 23:49:35 <genjix> gmaxwell: link?
1691 2012-01-29 23:49:46 <BlueMatt> they can make as many non-bip16 blocks as they want but they will be invalidated when people upgrade to 0.6
1692 2012-01-29 23:49:49 <sipa> i think the last thing we want is more forum drama over the polarization between two things where most do not understand the differences between
1693 2012-01-29 23:50:05 <BlueMatt> hence, fuck it
1694 2012-01-29 23:50:27 * gmaxwell cries
1695 2012-01-29 23:50:37 <roconnor> etotheipi_: what sort of recommendations are you looking for?
1696 2012-01-29 23:50:38 <tcatm> We should take all development talk to the mailing lists. It just doesn't work when the forum is involved.
1697 2012-01-29 23:50:48 <k9quaint> do two releases, a & b, have them fight inside Deepbit for supremacy
1698 2012-01-29 23:50:51 <Moron__> im a bit confused... do we really want transactions with addresses having thousands of digits?
1699 2012-01-29 23:50:56 <Diablo-D3> lol
1700 2012-01-29 23:50:56 <sipa> BlueMatt: 0.6 cannot be deployed before bip16 is enforced by 50% of mining power
1701 2012-01-29 23:51:00 <genjix> gmaxwell: give me the link? im about to leave in a second, but ill put it in bold at the top
1702 2012-01-29 23:51:03 <BlueMatt> it hasnt worked on the forum forever, I dont know who the fuck brought stuff to the forum to begin with
1703 2012-01-29 23:51:09 <Diablo-D3> someone just told me diapolo has a C array now
1704 2012-01-29 23:51:11 <Diablo-D3> for constants
1705 2012-01-29 23:51:11 <BlueMatt> sipa: shouldnt
1706 2012-01-29 23:51:17 <Diablo-D3> (to go with the K array)
1707 2012-01-29 23:51:19 <Diablo-D3> I just got rid of both
1708 2012-01-29 23:51:20 <Diablo-D3> bwhahaha
1709 2012-01-29 23:51:23 <gmaxwell> sipa: sure it can. just don't mine any BIP16 transactions and watch the split fireworks.
1710 2012-01-29 23:51:26 <gmaxwell> :-/
1711 2012-01-29 23:51:27 <Diablo-D3> he copies me in time for him to be out of date
1712 2012-01-29 23:51:29 <Diablo-D3> thats hilarious
1713 2012-01-29 23:51:40 <theymos> If you want to have a serious discussion about it on the forum, you can say in the OP that insignificant/ignorant comments should be deleted and the forum moderators will do it.
1714 2012-01-29 23:51:41 <sipa> ...
1715 2012-01-29 23:51:43 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: bitcoind by default wont accept either, right?
1716 2012-01-29 23:52:03 <Diablo-D3> AHAHAH
1717 2012-01-29 23:52:04 <Diablo-D3> oh wow
1718 2012-01-29 23:52:08 <Diablo-D3> I just downloaded diapolo's kernel
1719 2012-01-29 23:52:16 <Diablo-D3> lookin kinda dm there
1720 2012-01-29 23:52:21 <gmaxwell> sipa: miners would have to adopt it or risk being split, or convince users to not run the new software. I mean, I don't think this is a good idea. But apparently the miners that think they get a free veto by vitue of running a big pool aren't right in thinking this.
1721 2012-01-29 23:52:27 * BlueMatt votes that Diablo-D3 starts banning everyone who mentions bip 16/17 on the forums
1722 2012-01-29 23:52:29 <BlueMatt> :)
1723 2012-01-29 23:52:32 <BlueMatt> problem solved
1724 2012-01-29 23:52:35 <Diablo-D3> bluematt: cant ban
1725 2012-01-29 23:52:42 <tcatm> theymos: Make that default for Bitcoin Discussion and Dev&Tech Discussion ;)
1726 2012-01-29 23:52:47 <Diablo-D3> theymos only lets me ridicule people
1727 2012-01-29 23:52:49 <BlueMatt> oh, Diablo-D3 doesnt have a banhammer? shame
1728 2012-01-29 23:53:03 <etotheipi_> roconnor, I'm just interested to hear what you think should be in an alpha release that I don't have... I have to prioritize or else I'll never release it
1729 2012-01-29 23:53:06 <Diablo-D3> he gets bitchy when I delete posts
1730 2012-01-29 23:53:08 <gmaxwell> can someone who is a mod in the dev form please split the last couple posts on the bip17 thread?  I'm sorry for taking it offtopic.
1731 2012-01-29 23:53:11 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: abusing a 100% monopoly over clients is far worse than a 51% pool monopoly
1732 2012-01-29 23:53:31 <luke-jr> someone shoudl combine all the BIP 16/17 threads too
1733 2012-01-29 23:53:36 <luke-jr> no idea why Gavin had to make so many
1734 2012-01-29 23:53:36 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: you fucking up the process of bitcoin for I dont even know why the hell you are doing this is worse than anything else
1735 2012-01-29 23:53:39 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: we have as many client alternatives as pool ones!
1736 2012-01-29 23:53:41 <roconnor> etotheipi_: I am not yet aware of any features that are required that are missing
1737 2012-01-29 23:53:42 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no u
1738 2012-01-29 23:53:46 <k9quaint> make a dev subforum that is subject to severe moderation and post permissions are by invitation only
1739 2012-01-29 23:53:49 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: not practical, no
1740 2012-01-29 23:53:59 <roconnor> etotheipi_: but honestly I haven't used armory that much
1741 2012-01-29 23:54:01 <etotheipi_> roconnor, I guess not so much features, as much as little quirks/bugs/annoyances that I should make special effort to fix
1742 2012-01-29 23:54:10 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: at least 99% of users use Bitcoin-Qt or bitcoind
1743 2012-01-29 23:54:23 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: otherwise, BlueMatt's client-51% attack wouldn't work
1744 2012-01-29 23:54:24 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: almost! (but yes, its a little better.. there are about 8 pratical pools, and about three pratical clients)
1745 2012-01-29 23:54:33 <Moron__> cant we just settle these things with a wrestling match?
1746 2012-01-29 23:54:34 <Diablo-D3> [06:47:16] <gmaxwell> can someone who is a mod in the dev form please split the last couple posts on the bip17 thread?  I'm sorry for taking it offtopic.
1747 2012-01-29 23:54:36 <Diablo-D3> url?
1748 2012-01-29 23:54:40 <Diablo-D3> because Ill just delete the whole thread
1749 2012-01-29 23:54:45 <roconnor> etotheipi_: all bugs that I've pointed out should be fixed :)
1750 2012-01-29 23:54:45 <Diablo-D3> its offtopic for the forum
1751 2012-01-29 23:54:55 <etotheipi_> roconnor, haha fair enough
1752 2012-01-29 23:55:02 <roconnor> etotheipi_: and preferably all the bugs I haven't pointed out too
1753 2012-01-29 23:55:10 <BlueMatt> bip 16/17 is offtopic for the forum
1754 2012-01-29 23:55:16 <BlueMatt> maybe Diablo-D3 should delete all mentions of it?
1755 2012-01-29 23:55:16 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1756 2012-01-29 23:55:36 <Diablo-D3> theymos should just give me the ban hammer
1757 2012-01-29 23:55:37 <sipa> that will cause more outcry than you want imho
1758 2012-01-29 23:55:39 <etotheipi_> roconnor, I guess I'm looking more, for stuff like being able to right-click-context-menu copy stuff from the Tx info dialog... that's a really good suggestion
1759 2012-01-29 23:55:45 <Diablo-D3> Ill write a perl script that bans anyone who mentions bip
1760 2012-01-29 23:55:46 <Diablo-D3> or bfl
1761 2012-01-29 23:55:50 <etotheipi_> but I really need to lock down a version soon
1762 2012-01-29 23:55:55 <roconnor> etotheipi_: ya, that would be a nice feature, but isn't urgent
1763 2012-01-29 23:56:00 <k9quaint> Diablo-D3: b1p-sexteen
1764 2012-01-29 23:56:04 <k9quaint> CIRCUMVENTED
1765 2012-01-29 23:56:09 <Diablo-D3> and k9's isp.
1766 2012-01-29 23:56:14 * k9quaint cries
1767 2012-01-29 23:56:59 <roconnor> etotheipi_: even this stupid heartbeat resenting the ledger that is driving me crazy isn't urgent. :P
1768 2012-01-29 23:57:04 <roconnor> *reseting
1769 2012-01-29 23:57:59 <etotheipi_> I think that one is actually pretty important... a very visible convenience feature is broken
1770 2012-01-29 23:58:13 <Diablo-D3> man
1771 2012-01-29 23:58:18 <Diablo-D3> I have the sudden urge to play ff5
1772 2012-01-29 23:58:20 <BlueMatt> genjix: what ever happened to those tuesday meetings btw?
1773 2012-01-29 23:58:35 * Diablo-D3 was just humming a medly of every ff fight theme
1774 2012-01-29 23:59:17 <Moron__> so... who really controls the power in bitcoin... the miners... the pools... the clients... or the devs... ?
1775 2012-01-29 23:59:40 <luke-jr> Moron__: Bitcoin requires a consensus
1776 2012-01-29 23:59:50 <BlueMatt> apparently dumbasses who feel like turning complicated technical issues political
1777 2012-01-29 23:59:56 <luke-jr> Moron__: which is why there's an argument now: no one person is succeeding in forcing their solution