1 2012-02-09 00:00:42 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
   2 2012-02-09 00:01:05 Sedra- has joined
   3 2012-02-09 00:01:23 ageis has joined
   4 2012-02-09 00:03:20 barmstrong has joined
   5 2012-02-09 00:03:30 <XMPPwocky> hey: does an inv packet usually have 500 inv_vect s?
   6 2012-02-09 00:03:49 Sedra has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
   7 2012-02-09 00:05:38 h4ckm3 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
   8 2012-02-09 00:08:01 <lianj> no
   9 2012-02-09 00:08:28 <XMPPwocky> hmm
  10 2012-02-09 00:10:08 <XMPPwocky> just random?
  11 2012-02-09 00:10:09 theorb has joined
  12 2012-02-09 00:10:35 CRichard has joined
  13 2012-02-09 00:11:02 <lianj> random? no. if you have one new tx, for example, you just send a tx inv packet with one hash
  14 2012-02-09 00:11:05 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
  15 2012-02-09 00:11:22 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  16 2012-02-09 00:11:24 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  17 2012-02-09 00:11:55 Ahimoth has joined
  18 2012-02-09 00:12:03 sacarlson has joined
  19 2012-02-09 00:13:11 blomqvist has quit (Quit: Aah IRC, where men are men, women are men)
  20 2012-02-09 00:13:35 booo has joined
  21 2012-02-09 00:16:08 <XMPPwocky> lianj: well, at connect
  22 2012-02-09 00:17:17 barmstrong has joined
  23 2012-02-09 00:17:31 abbe has joined
  24 2012-02-09 00:17:53 <lianj> you send getblocks and get a packet inv packet with some block hashes back, max 500 iirc. the spec allows a var_int size iirc though
  25 2012-02-09 00:18:10 CRichard has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  26 2012-02-09 00:20:00 <XMPPwocky> okay, yeah
  27 2012-02-09 00:21:23 <Idiot___> what exactly is a block?
  28 2012-02-09 00:21:47 <lianj> !give Idiot___ blocks
  29 2012-02-09 00:21:48 * gribble gives Idiot___ blocks
  30 2012-02-09 00:21:51 <pirateat40> lego blocks?
  31 2012-02-09 00:21:51 Phoebus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  32 2012-02-09 00:21:55 <lianj> aw
  33 2012-02-09 00:22:20 <Idiot___> i was called a blockhead once...
  34 2012-02-09 00:22:25 <Idiot___> does that have anything to do with bitcoin?
  35 2012-02-09 00:22:42 <lianj> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block
  36 2012-02-09 00:23:36 <Idiot___> ive spotted a problem
  37 2012-02-09 00:23:44 <Idiot___> there are in theory, going to be an infinite number of blocks
  38 2012-02-09 00:23:53 <Idiot___> but we havent yet invented a storage system with an infinite capacity?
  39 2012-02-09 00:24:26 <iz> yeah, but the idea is that storage capacity increases over time
  40 2012-02-09 00:24:34 smickles is now known as smickles|idle
  41 2012-02-09 00:25:06 <iz> at an exponential rate, which more than keeps up with the linear growth rate of total block chain size
  42 2012-02-09 00:25:37 <Idiot___> uh ok
  43 2012-02-09 00:26:28 <lianj> not really, 2012 seams like a bad year for disk prices
  44 2012-02-09 00:28:16 <iz> lianj: compare the cost of a 1TB drive in 2012 to the cost of a 1TB drive in 2007 (5 years prior) and i think you'll see the effect of the thailand flooding is just a local fluctuation
  45 2012-02-09 00:28:59 <lianj> im not sure its only because of the thailand thing
  46 2012-02-09 00:29:30 <Idiot___> urgh... can exponential growth really continue forever though?
  47 2012-02-09 00:29:44 <iz> also there could be blockchain pruning, as long as all of the transactions are completed in the pruned blocks
  48 2012-02-09 00:29:44 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  49 2012-02-09 00:30:01 barmstrong has joined
  50 2012-02-09 00:30:15 <lianj> but true, until the chain is 1TB big it will look different. but processing/walking that chain then will only done by a handful of services then, the rest needs to trust them
  51 2012-02-09 00:30:47 <XMPPwocky> http://pastebin.com/gSv4nWwN
  52 2012-02-09 00:30:49 <XMPPwocky> woop wop
  53 2012-02-09 00:30:52 <XMPPwocky> woop, even
  54 2012-02-09 00:31:37 smickles is now known as idle!~michael@cpe-071-070-169-083.nc.res.rr.com|smickles
  55 2012-02-09 00:32:39 <XMPPwocky> that was from actually sitting between two nodes and proxying their packets
  56 2012-02-09 00:32:57 <XMPPwocky> now I just have to stick a UI on it
  57 2012-02-09 00:33:02 <Idiot___> is that a man-in-the-middle attack?
  58 2012-02-09 00:33:14 <XMPPwocky> Idiot___: could certainly be used for one
  59 2012-02-09 00:33:25 <Idiot___> i was thinking, that term is a bit sexist
  60 2012-02-09 00:33:32 <Idiot___> shouldnt we call it person-in-the-middle attack?
  61 2012-02-09 00:34:10 <lianj> youre in troll-mode, dont you?
  62 2012-02-09 00:34:23 <Idiot___> troll mode?
  63 2012-02-09 00:35:07 <iz> similarly, linux is sexist by making you type man all the time.. it should be person
  64 2012-02-09 00:36:02 <Idiot___> so true iz, i didnt think of that
  65 2012-02-09 00:36:06 <mod6> its man for manual
  66 2012-02-09 00:36:15 <Idiot___> and theres a cat command but no dog command
  67 2012-02-09 00:36:16 <Idiot___> whats with that?
  68 2012-02-09 00:36:22 <mod6> that makes perfect sense to me, its not sexist.
  69 2012-02-09 00:36:26 <iz> person is short for personalized manual
  70 2012-02-09 00:36:47 <iz> lol
  71 2012-02-09 00:36:57 <Idiot___> yeh u would say that wouldnt you... you man :P
  72 2012-02-09 00:37:04 * Idiot___ gets a group of feminists to beat up mod6
  73 2012-02-09 00:37:12 <mod6> lol, well im like ?!?!
  74 2012-02-09 00:37:18 <iz> haha
  75 2012-02-09 00:37:21 <mod6> xD
  76 2012-02-09 00:38:47 <Idiot___> i also dont like the idea of a control panel... it sounds too domineering... how about a nurturing panel?
  77 2012-02-09 00:39:00 <luke-jr> iz: man is inclusive
  78 2012-02-09 00:39:17 <luke-jr> it can mean women too
  79 2012-02-09 00:39:50 <Idiot___> bitcoin is very sexist... wallets are owned by men not women
  80 2012-02-09 00:40:01 <Idiot___> women have purses
  81 2012-02-09 00:40:06 <iz> idk, typing man mount sound pretty gay to me..
  82 2012-02-09 00:40:12 <iz> sounds
  83 2012-02-09 00:40:33 <iz> or you mean man in the general sense
  84 2012-02-09 00:41:14 <iz> like how even female actors are called actors.. and how women are still considered part of mankind
  85 2012-02-09 00:42:10 <iz> yeah, man-in-the-middle isn't really a gendered version of "man", but the general non-gendered sense of the word that just means person
  86 2012-02-09 00:42:35 <Idiot___> women arent gonna be into bitcoin until it fixes this rampant sexism
  87 2012-02-09 00:42:37 <iz> it's not sexist b/c cryptologist use eve to describe this role :b
  88 2012-02-09 00:42:45 <Idiot___> i propose someone start an equality comission
  89 2012-02-09 00:43:24 <Idiot___> i also think ecdsa a bit sexist too... i mean, elliptic _curve_ ?
  90 2012-02-09 00:43:31 <Idiot___> why do they have to be curvy...
  91 2012-02-09 00:43:38 <BlueMatt> I propose you make up the entire committee and announce your results to the nearest cryptography mailing list
  92 2012-02-09 00:43:53 <iz> cuz if they are straight there won't be 3 points that intersect the axis :b
  93 2012-02-09 00:44:28 <iz> just 1
  94 2012-02-09 00:44:34 <iz> or all, i guess
  95 2012-02-09 00:44:35 <Idiot___> so... some of the curves are clearly lewd and disrespectful to women
  96 2012-02-09 00:44:45 <Idiot___> they should be analysed and removed from the algorithm as soon as possible
  97 2012-02-09 00:44:54 <iz> that's why ecdsa has APPROVED curves that you can use!
  98 2012-02-09 00:45:04 <BlueMatt> I propose you inform your nearest cryptography mailing list
  99 2012-02-09 00:45:14 <iz> the govt does that already for you and for the sakes of all the women out there
 100 2012-02-09 00:45:16 <Idiot___> i have half a mind to do s
 101 2012-02-09 00:45:16 <Idiot___> o
 102 2012-02-09 00:45:25 <BlueMatt> ...
 103 2012-02-09 00:46:40 <Idiot___> also i dont like the sound of blockchain...
 104 2012-02-09 00:46:44 <Idiot___> i mean, sounds a bit racist
 105 2012-02-09 00:46:51 <Idiot___> chains were used for slaves in the past
 106 2012-02-09 00:47:01 <Idiot___> cant we call it a blocklist or a blockseries?
 107 2012-02-09 00:47:31 knotwork_ is now known as knotwork
 108 2012-02-09 00:47:31 <BlueMatt> I think any wording is racist/sexist if you look hard enough
 109 2012-02-09 00:47:49 <iz> also coins were used to sell slaves.. so.. maybe we shouldn't use the word coin at all :b
 110 2012-02-09 00:48:25 <Idiot___> i think we should change the name of the project
 111 2012-02-09 00:48:39 btc_novice has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 112 2012-02-09 00:48:48 <Idiot___> what do you guys think of calling them noncents? ya kno, cos of how the hashing works...
 113 2012-02-09 00:49:05 <Idiot___> ohps guys/gals
 114 2012-02-09 00:49:59 <XMPPwocky> alright- tamper_proxy is now ready!
 115 2012-02-09 00:51:23 <XMPPwocky> put, say
 116 2012-02-09 00:51:27 <XMPPwocky> container.command = ""
 117 2012-02-09 00:51:47 <XMPPwocky> in mangle_message:bitkit/apps/tamper_proxy/mangler.py
 118 2012-02-09 00:53:38 <XMPPwocky> and ta-da, packets are tampered with on the fly
 119 2012-02-09 00:54:54 <lianj> what repo?
 120 2012-02-09 00:55:09 <XMPPwocky> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=63008
 121 2012-02-09 00:55:14 <XMPPwocky> http://xmppwocky.net/bitkit/.git
 122 2012-02-09 00:57:57 <lianj> another python projects without tests, yay
 123 2012-02-09 00:58:06 <lianj> but keep it up :)
 124 2012-02-09 00:58:38 <XMPPwocky> it's like 6 days old
 125 2012-02-09 00:58:52 <XMPPwocky> now that I have everything working, tests are my next priority
 126 2012-02-09 00:59:25 * XMPPwocky is not a fan of test-driven development
 127 2012-02-09 00:59:45 <lianj> meh, i can tell :P
 128 2012-02-09 01:00:00 <XMPPwocky> tests and docs will be forthcoming
 129 2012-02-09 01:01:01 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 130 2012-02-09 01:01:28 sacarlson has joined
 131 2012-02-09 01:02:26 <XMPPwocky> lianj: does it work for you?
 132 2012-02-09 01:03:00 s3rk0n has joined
 133 2012-02-09 01:03:17 <lianj> didnt run it, just reading some code
 134 2012-02-09 01:04:24 <XMPPwocky> all the protocol is in bitkit/protocol
 135 2012-02-09 01:04:39 <XMPPwocky> payloads for different packets are in bitkit/protocol/payload
 136 2012-02-09 01:05:01 <XMPPwocky> structures (varint, varstr, inventory vector, netaddr, etc) are in bitkit/protocol/structures
 137 2012-02-09 01:05:35 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 138 2012-02-09 01:05:59 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 139 2012-02-09 01:06:08 sacarlson has joined
 140 2012-02-09 01:06:27 <XMPPwocky> and parse_messages and build_message are in bitkit/protocol/__init__.py
 141 2012-02-09 01:06:40 <XMPPwocky> double_sha256's in bitkit/crypto/hashes
 142 2012-02-09 01:07:48 <lianj> i have seen all 400 lines :P
 143 2012-02-09 01:08:01 <XMPPwocky> cool
 144 2012-02-09 01:08:37 <s3rk0n> what's an xmppwocky
 145 2012-02-09 01:09:23 <XMPPwocky> .g XMPP protocol
 146 2012-02-09 01:09:30 CRichard has joined
 147 2012-02-09 01:09:32 <XMPPwocky> ;;g XMPP protocol
 148 2012-02-09 01:09:33 <gribble> Error: "g" is not a valid command.
 149 2012-02-09 01:09:36 <XMPPwocky> meh
 150 2012-02-09 01:09:46 <XMPPwocky> XMPP protocol + wocky
 151 2012-02-09 01:10:01 <XMPPwocky> XMPP used to be called Jabber
 152 2012-02-09 01:10:02 <XMPPwocky> so
 153 2012-02-09 01:11:02 <Idiot___> i preferred aol im
 154 2012-02-09 01:17:23 <s3rk0n> thts dum
 155 2012-02-09 01:17:58 <s3rk0n> XMPPwocky: thts dum
 156 2012-02-09 01:22:28 jamescarr has joined
 157 2012-02-09 01:23:12 <jamescarr> hey guys. I've been working through the API for one of my apps and was wondering something about bitcoind
 158 2012-02-09 01:23:28 <jamescarr> does bitcoind only show transactions that have happened on the server?
 159 2012-02-09 01:23:42 <jamescarr> or is there someway to view all the transactions for someone else's account?
 160 2012-02-09 01:27:38 splatster_ has joined
 161 2012-02-09 01:28:10 Dshells has joined
 162 2012-02-09 01:28:21 splatster_ is now known as splatster
 163 2012-02-09 01:28:22 splatster has quit (Changing host)
 164 2012-02-09 01:28:22 splatster has joined
 165 2012-02-09 01:28:40 Dshells has quit (Quit: changing servers)
 166 2012-02-09 01:29:11 Dshell618 has joined
 167 2012-02-09 01:29:23 Dshell618 is now known as Dshells
 168 2012-02-09 01:29:51 Turingi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 169 2012-02-09 01:29:52 <iz> jamescarr: all the transactions are stored in the blockchain.. you can look through the data locally using some sort of custom tool or use http://blockexplorer.com
 170 2012-02-09 01:30:46 s3rk0n has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 171 2012-02-09 01:30:54 <Graet> blockchain.info
 172 2012-02-09 01:30:57 BNCatDIGISHELL has joined
 173 2012-02-09 01:31:04 s3rk0n has joined
 174 2012-02-09 01:33:20 phantomfake has joined
 175 2012-02-09 01:50:23 splatster has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
 176 2012-02-09 01:51:50 <Idiot___> :P
 177 2012-02-09 01:51:58 mologie has joined
 178 2012-02-09 01:54:54 dr_win has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 179 2012-02-09 01:55:54 Prattler has joined
 180 2012-02-09 01:59:26 marf_away has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 181 2012-02-09 02:00:20 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 182 2012-02-09 02:01:18 Idiot___ has quit ()
 183 2012-02-09 02:01:26 vigilyn has joined
 184 2012-02-09 02:04:15 <ThePiachu> I'm trying to install some dependencies for Bitcoin compiling on Mac and I'm having problems with miniupnpc - when I type "sudo port install", it gives me an error of "Error: Unable to execute port: could not read "/Users/appleii/Downloads/miniupnpc/Portfile": permission denied"
 185 2012-02-09 02:04:27 <ThePiachu> Any suggestions?
 186 2012-02-09 02:05:29 <Prattler> ThePiachu, in linux I just do compile with USE_UPNP= and it just skips it
 187 2012-02-09 02:05:48 <Prattler> unless.. you actually need it
 188 2012-02-09 02:06:18 <lianj> ThePiachu: how do you install things on your osx? macports, homebrew?
 189 2012-02-09 02:06:24 <lianj> (by hand)
 190 2012-02-09 02:07:55 <ThePiachu> thy usually come with a nice .dmg I guess. For Bitcoin stuff I was following the readme-qt from the github Bitcoin source
 191 2012-02-09 02:07:56 sacarlson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 192 2012-02-09 02:10:20 <lianj> hm `sudo port install boost db48 miniupnpc` should to it then
 193 2012-02-09 02:10:55 <lianj> looking for miniupnpc/Portfile in your download dir is strange though. and permission denied for root too :D
 194 2012-02-09 02:11:28 <ThePiachu> moved it there from my Dropbox, figured it might be mocking with it a bit...
 195 2012-02-09 02:12:57 da2ce7 has joined
 196 2012-02-09 02:13:08 <lianj> huh, did macports changed? you usually install macports, and it does fetch/configure and install staging for you
 197 2012-02-09 02:13:16 <lianj> -d
 198 2012-02-09 02:14:29 BTC_Bear is now known as BTC_Bear|hbrntng
 199 2012-02-09 02:20:27 vigilyn has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 200 2012-02-09 02:20:49 vigilyn has joined
 201 2012-02-09 02:21:39 da2ce7 has quit (2!~da2ce7@gateway/tor-sasl/da2ce7|Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 202 2012-02-09 02:24:55 splatster has joined
 203 2012-02-09 02:25:00 sacarlson has joined
 204 2012-02-09 02:28:55 s3rk0n is now known as s3rk2n
 205 2012-02-09 02:28:56 da2ce7 has joined
 206 2012-02-09 02:31:24 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 207 2012-02-09 02:31:44 <ThePiachu> hmm, so the command for installing seems to work, everything compiles, thanks for the help!
 208 2012-02-09 02:35:43 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Do fish get thirsty?)
 209 2012-02-09 02:35:56 MobiusL has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 210 2012-02-09 02:36:56 MobiusL has joined
 211 2012-02-09 02:38:10 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
 212 2012-02-09 02:38:52 s3rk2n has quit (Quit: leaving)
 213 2012-02-09 02:39:31 ThePiachu has quit (Quit: Quit)
 214 2012-02-09 02:42:14 barmstrong has joined
 215 2012-02-09 02:50:14 Xunie has joined
 216 2012-02-09 03:01:38 h4ckm3th32nd has joined
 217 2012-02-09 03:03:15 da2ce7 has quit (2!~da2ce7@gateway/tor-sasl/da2ce7|Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 218 2012-02-09 03:04:14 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 219 2012-02-09 03:04:17 FROTUSCI has joined
 220 2012-02-09 03:06:06 Cablesaurus has joined
 221 2012-02-09 03:06:07 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
 222 2012-02-09 03:06:07 Cablesaurus has joined
 223 2012-02-09 03:19:27 TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)
 224 2012-02-09 03:19:40 [7] has joined
 225 2012-02-09 03:20:02 knotwork_ has joined
 226 2012-02-09 03:20:56 userbh has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 227 2012-02-09 03:23:10 knotwork has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 228 2012-02-09 03:25:00 JRWR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 229 2012-02-09 03:26:08 h4ckm3th32nd has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 230 2012-02-09 03:27:51 Yarou has joined
 231 2012-02-09 03:28:54 booo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 232 2012-02-09 03:45:28 skeledrew has joined
 233 2012-02-09 03:45:57 forests has joined
 234 2012-02-09 03:46:35 skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 235 2012-02-09 03:47:08 forests has left ()
 236 2012-02-09 03:47:13 trulia has joined
 237 2012-02-09 03:48:02 btc_novice has joined
 238 2012-02-09 04:04:47 SaladBowlJoe has joined
 239 2012-02-09 04:09:56 copumpkin has joined
 240 2012-02-09 04:19:19 stalled has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 241 2012-02-09 04:22:57 RobinPKR_ has joined
 242 2012-02-09 04:24:08 sacarlson has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 243 2012-02-09 04:25:08 RobinPKR has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 244 2012-02-09 04:25:09 RobinPKR_ is now known as RobinPKR
 245 2012-02-09 04:30:52 sacarlson has joined
 246 2012-02-09 04:31:01 nx201 has joined
 247 2012-02-09 04:31:07 <gmaxwell> It's pretty impressive how fast eligius regained hashrate after defeating the DOS.
 248 2012-02-09 04:34:03 CRichard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 249 2012-02-09 04:35:25 Keefe has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 250 2012-02-09 04:37:03 Keefe has joined
 251 2012-02-09 04:37:28 Keefe is now known as Guest71968
 252 2012-02-09 04:38:23 CRichard has joined
 253 2012-02-09 04:42:44 JRWR has joined
 254 2012-02-09 04:46:18 stalled has joined
 255 2012-02-09 04:50:06 smickles is now known as smickles|idle
 256 2012-02-09 04:52:25 skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre)
 257 2012-02-09 04:53:03 skeledrew has joined
 258 2012-02-09 04:53:25 <CRichard> hi
 259 2012-02-09 04:54:15 <CRichard> wondering if anyone thinks it might be a useful project to have a Bayeux (ajax push) server written to distribute the bitblock chain to lightweight/web clients
 260 2012-02-09 04:54:21 <CRichard> or if any such thing already exists for that matter?
 261 2012-02-09 05:00:17 CRichard has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 262 2012-02-09 05:00:31 CRichard has joined
 263 2012-02-09 05:09:35 tower has quit (Disconnected by services)
 264 2012-02-09 05:09:48 tower has joined
 265 2012-02-09 05:12:15 smickles is now known as idle!~michael@cpe-071-070-169-083.nc.res.rr.com|smickles
 266 2012-02-09 05:12:37 eoss has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 267 2012-02-09 05:16:47 pingdrive has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 268 2012-02-09 05:20:34 splatster has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
 269 2012-02-09 05:23:25 splatster has joined
 270 2012-02-09 05:24:52 jamescarr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 271 2012-02-09 05:24:54 eoss has joined
 272 2012-02-09 05:26:32 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 273 2012-02-09 05:26:46 copumpkin has joined
 274 2012-02-09 05:45:22 eoss has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 275 2012-02-09 05:45:53 <BlueMatt> FUCK DUKE!!!!
 276 2012-02-09 05:46:26 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: you've been in college for how long and you're already a SPORTSFAN™?
 277 2012-02-09 05:46:36 <BlueMatt> ofc
 278 2012-02-09 05:46:52 <BlueMatt> carolina is kinda known for that...
 279 2012-02-09 05:48:02 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: oh, eligius ddos disappeared?
 280 2012-02-09 05:50:07 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: No. It's been slayed.
 281 2012-02-09 05:50:21 SaladBowlJoe has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 282 2012-02-09 05:50:33 <gmaxwell> (by directing the pool traffic to a place with a bigger pipe)
 283 2012-02-09 05:57:09 <BlueMatt> oh, ok
 284 2012-02-09 05:57:37 * BlueMatt -> oh gracious sleep
 285 2012-02-09 05:57:46 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 286 2012-02-09 06:03:44 luke-jr has quit (Excess Flood)
 287 2012-02-09 06:04:05 luke-jr has joined
 288 2012-02-09 06:05:20 JRWR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 289 2012-02-09 06:12:43 Yarou has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 290 2012-02-09 06:24:21 ThomasV has joined
 291 2012-02-09 06:24:28 ThomasV has quit (Changing host)
 292 2012-02-09 06:24:28 ThomasV has joined
 293 2012-02-09 06:29:58 MobiusL has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 294 2012-02-09 06:31:20 Yarou has joined
 295 2012-02-09 06:31:20 Yarou has quit (Changing host)
 296 2012-02-09 06:31:20 Yarou has joined
 297 2012-02-09 06:32:27 eldentyrell has joined
 298 2012-02-09 06:38:25 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 299 2012-02-09 06:40:21 eldentyrell has quit (Quit: eldentyrell)
 300 2012-02-09 06:43:34 Guest71968 is now known as Keefe
 301 2012-02-09 06:43:53 Keefe has quit (Changing host)
 302 2012-02-09 06:43:53 Keefe has joined
 303 2012-02-09 06:44:17 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 304 2012-02-09 06:44:47 copumpkin has joined
 305 2012-02-09 06:51:18 btc_novice has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 306 2012-02-09 06:59:00 MobiusL has joined
 307 2012-02-09 06:59:00 djoot has joined
 308 2012-02-09 06:59:00 RichardG has joined
 309 2012-02-09 06:59:00 TuxBlackEdo has joined
 310 2012-02-09 06:59:00 pasky has joined
 311 2012-02-09 06:59:00 comboy has joined
 312 2012-02-09 06:59:00 Cory has joined
 313 2012-02-09 06:59:00 Eliel has joined
 314 2012-02-09 06:59:00 jandd has joined
 315 2012-02-09 06:59:00 tcatm has joined
 316 2012-02-09 06:59:00 epscy has joined
 317 2012-02-09 06:59:00 BCBot has joined
 318 2012-02-09 06:59:00 random_cat has joined
 319 2012-02-09 06:59:00 egecko has joined
 320 2012-02-09 06:59:00 MBS has joined
 321 2012-02-09 06:59:00 pirateat40 has joined
 322 2012-02-09 06:59:00 Nicksasa has joined
 323 2012-02-09 06:59:00 gribble has joined
 324 2012-02-09 06:59:00 da2ce7 has joined
 325 2012-02-09 06:59:00 gfinn has joined
 326 2012-02-09 06:59:00 JimRogers has joined
 327 2012-02-09 06:59:00 underscor has joined
 328 2012-02-09 06:59:00 paraipan has joined
 329 2012-02-09 06:59:02 BTC_Bear has joined
 330 2012-02-09 07:01:31 skeledrew has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 331 2012-02-09 07:01:47 skeledrew has joined
 332 2012-02-09 07:02:38 smickles is now known as smickles|idle
 333 2012-02-09 07:13:00 Yarou_ has joined
 334 2012-02-09 07:15:41 Yarou has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 335 2012-02-09 07:16:56 Karmaon has joined
 336 2012-02-09 07:25:43 imsaguy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 337 2012-02-09 07:38:58  has quit (Clown|!Clown@static-87-79-93-140.netcologne.de|Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 338 2012-02-09 07:41:26 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 339 2012-02-09 07:42:26 ivan\ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 340 2012-02-09 07:43:12 ivan\ has joined
 341 2012-02-09 07:44:51 dikidera has joined
 342 2012-02-09 07:44:52 diki has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 343 2012-02-09 08:07:17 doublec has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 344 2012-02-09 08:09:29 Phoebus has joined
 345 2012-02-09 08:11:15 Yarou has joined
 346 2012-02-09 08:13:43 Yarou_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 347 2012-02-09 08:20:06 ThomasV has joined
 348 2012-02-09 08:20:20 glitch-mod has joined
 349 2012-02-09 08:23:06 phantomfake has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 350 2012-02-09 08:23:23 RazielZ has joined
 351 2012-02-09 08:28:30 wirehead has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 352 2012-02-09 08:35:11 <CRichard> is the reference client licensed under MIT because satoshi released it originally under that license?
 353 2012-02-09 08:35:16 cryptoxchange has joined
 354 2012-02-09 08:35:16 cryptoxchange has quit (Changing host)
 355 2012-02-09 08:35:16 cryptoxchange has joined
 356 2012-02-09 08:41:59 glitch-mod has quit (2!~xd@pool-71-190-229-236.nycmny.fios.verizon.net|Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
 357 2012-02-09 08:42:04 molecular has joined
 358 2012-02-09 08:46:35 Phoebus has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 359 2012-02-09 08:48:12 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: xanatos opened issue 811 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/811>
 360 2012-02-09 08:57:11 splatster has quit (Quit: Pistol under my pillow; I've never been a deep sleeper.)
 361 2012-02-09 08:59:49 Phoebus has joined
 362 2012-02-09 09:00:33 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: If you think nobody cares, try missing a few payments)
 363 2012-02-09 09:02:38 Xunie has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 364 2012-02-09 09:03:07 MrTiggr has joined
 365 2012-02-09 09:05:50 ovidiusoft has joined
 366 2012-02-09 09:11:23 MrTiggr has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 367 2012-02-09 09:31:10 ultra_ has left ()
 368 2012-02-09 09:39:31 Yarou_ has joined
 369 2012-02-09 09:40:43 Cablesaurus has joined
 370 2012-02-09 09:40:43 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
 371 2012-02-09 09:40:43 Cablesaurus has joined
 372 2012-02-09 09:41:00 mod6_ has joined
 373 2012-02-09 09:42:30 mod6 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 374 2012-02-09 09:42:47 Yarou has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 375 2012-02-09 09:42:57 andrew12 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 376 2012-02-09 09:44:53 andrew12 has joined
 377 2012-02-09 09:47:35 CRichard has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 378 2012-02-09 09:51:03 pierre` has joined
 379 2012-02-09 09:57:32 wirehead has joined
 380 2012-02-09 10:02:25 doublec has joined
 381 2012-02-09 10:02:51 doublec has quit (Changing host)
 382 2012-02-09 10:02:51 doublec has joined
 383 2012-02-09 10:13:49 Clipse has joined
 384 2012-02-09 10:16:58 iocor has joined
 385 2012-02-09 10:23:49 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 386 2012-02-09 10:24:31 copumpkin has joined
 387 2012-02-09 10:27:59 booo has joined
 388 2012-02-09 10:38:41 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 389 2012-02-09 10:38:41 sje has joined
 390 2012-02-09 10:38:41 sje has quit (Changing host)
 391 2012-02-09 10:38:41 sje has joined
 392 2012-02-09 10:39:45 molecular has joined
 393 2012-02-09 10:40:56 MrTiggr has joined
 394 2012-02-09 10:45:06 erle- has joined
 395 2012-02-09 10:46:52 TD has joined
 396 2012-02-09 10:51:49 Idiot___ has joined
 397 2012-02-09 11:08:47 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: dooglus opened issue 812 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/812>
 398 2012-02-09 11:08:50 dr_win has joined
 399 2012-02-09 11:10:18 paul0 has joined
 400 2012-02-09 11:11:24 phantomfake has joined
 401 2012-02-09 11:12:14 SomeoneWeird is now known as SomeoneWeirdzzzz
 402 2012-02-09 11:14:13 skeledrew has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 403 2012-02-09 11:14:17 skeledrew has joined
 404 2012-02-09 11:18:35 booo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 405 2012-02-09 11:18:40 <Idiot___> hi ppl
 406 2012-02-09 11:21:16 dikidera has left ()
 407 2012-02-09 11:23:14 diki has joined
 408 2012-02-09 11:36:27 Clipse has quit (Quit: Clipse)
 409 2012-02-09 11:37:34 Clipse has joined
 410 2012-02-09 11:38:49 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 411 2012-02-09 11:47:49 dlb76 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 412 2012-02-09 11:59:33 marf_away has joined
 413 2012-02-09 12:11:01 CRichard has joined
 414 2012-02-09 12:25:30 b4epoche_ has joined
 415 2012-02-09 12:26:11 b4epoche has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 416 2012-02-09 12:26:11 b4epoche_ is now known as b4epoche
 417 2012-02-09 12:45:19 T_X has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 418 2012-02-09 12:45:34 MrTiggr has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 419 2012-02-09 12:52:04 Clipse has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 420 2012-02-09 12:52:31 T_X has joined
 421 2012-02-09 12:52:32 T_X has quit (Changing host)
 422 2012-02-09 12:52:32 T_X has joined
 423 2012-02-09 13:00:23 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 424 2012-02-09 13:04:15 user_ has joined
 425 2012-02-09 13:06:04 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 426 2012-02-09 13:06:10 MrTiggr has joined
 427 2012-02-09 13:08:59 pingdrive has joined
 428 2012-02-09 13:12:04 dr_win has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 429 2012-02-09 13:16:32 pingdrive has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 430 2012-02-09 13:21:44 agricocb has joined
 431 2012-02-09 13:33:33 riush_ has quit (Quit: leaving)
 432 2012-02-09 13:34:11 datagutt_ has joined
 433 2012-02-09 13:34:53 danbri has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 434 2012-02-09 13:35:59 imsaguy has joined
 435 2012-02-09 13:37:42 danbri has joined
 436 2012-02-09 13:38:39 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: dooglus opened pull request 813 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/813>
 437 2012-02-09 13:43:00 riush has joined
 438 2012-02-09 13:43:00 riush has quit (Changing host)
 439 2012-02-09 13:43:00 riush has joined
 440 2012-02-09 13:51:29 datagutt_ is now known as daagutt
 441 2012-02-09 13:56:03 daagutt is now known as datagutt_
 442 2012-02-09 14:07:56 sje has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 443 2012-02-09 14:21:30 Keefe has quit (Quit: leaving)
 444 2012-02-09 14:21:39 JRWR has joined
 445 2012-02-09 14:26:42  has joined
 446 2012-02-09 14:29:18 JRWR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 447 2012-02-09 14:33:08 copumpkin has joined
 448 2012-02-09 14:33:38 Keefe has joined
 449 2012-02-09 14:33:53 Keefe has quit (Changing host)
 450 2012-02-09 14:33:53 Keefe has joined
 451 2012-02-09 14:34:22 JRWR has joined
 452 2012-02-09 14:36:57 wumpus has quit ()
 453 2012-02-09 14:37:10 wumpus has joined
 454 2012-02-09 14:37:15 lolcat} has joined
 455 2012-02-09 14:37:28 gavinandresen has joined
 456 2012-02-09 14:37:58 rcorreia_ has joined
 457 2012-02-09 14:38:51 nhodges has joined
 458 2012-02-09 14:40:08 JRWR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 459 2012-02-09 14:40:34 iocor has joined
 460 2012-02-09 14:46:39 Clipse has joined
 461 2012-02-09 14:48:05 diki has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 462 2012-02-09 14:48:06 vigilyn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 463 2012-02-09 14:48:43 vigilyn has joined
 464 2012-02-09 14:50:16 diki has joined
 465 2012-02-09 14:51:21 Diablo-D3 has joined
 466 2012-02-09 14:53:45 m3rde has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 467 2012-02-09 14:55:16 dr_win has joined
 468 2012-02-09 14:55:42 Nicksasa has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 469 2012-02-09 14:57:35 CRichard has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 470 2012-02-09 14:57:53 datagutt_ is now known as datagutt
 471 2012-02-09 14:57:55 Phoebus has joined
 472 2012-02-09 14:57:56 merde has joined
 473 2012-02-09 14:59:34 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gavinandresen opened issue 815 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/815>
 474 2012-02-09 14:59:35 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gavinandresen opened issue 814 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/814>
 475 2012-02-09 15:04:22 Nicksasa has joined
 476 2012-02-09 15:04:56 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 477 2012-02-09 15:06:43 iocor has joined
 478 2012-02-09 15:18:09 diki has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 479 2012-02-09 15:28:31 iocor has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 480 2012-02-09 15:36:14 Phoebus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 481 2012-02-09 15:41:25 iocor has joined
 482 2012-02-09 15:43:18 graingert has joined
 483 2012-02-09 16:00:35 booo has joined
 484 2012-02-09 16:01:25 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
 485 2012-02-09 16:02:25 smickles is now known as idle!~michael@cpe-071-070-169-083.nc.res.rr.com|smickles
 486 2012-02-09 16:05:08 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 487 2012-02-09 16:05:09 Nicksasa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 488 2012-02-09 16:07:50 Prattler has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 489 2012-02-09 16:08:12 [eval] has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 490 2012-02-09 16:08:15 booo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 491 2012-02-09 16:09:58 Nicksasa has joined
 492 2012-02-09 16:11:34 MrTiggr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 493 2012-02-09 16:15:15 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 494 2012-02-09 16:18:14 marf_away has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
 495 2012-02-09 16:21:39 iocor has joined
 496 2012-02-09 16:24:09 splatster has joined
 497 2012-02-09 16:27:26 erle- has quit (Quit: erle-)
 498 2012-02-09 16:27:31 <copumpkin> are there plans in bitcoin-qt to let you micromanage which addresses you spend from and to?
 499 2012-02-09 16:27:54 <copumpkin> well, from
 500 2012-02-09 16:28:01 <copumpkin> since you should have good control over the to :)
 501 2012-02-09 16:28:31 MC1984 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 502 2012-02-09 16:28:54 Turingi has joined
 503 2012-02-09 16:28:54 Turingi has quit (Changing host)
 504 2012-02-09 16:28:54 Turingi has joined
 505 2012-02-09 16:28:58 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 506 2012-02-09 16:30:21 MC1984 has joined
 507 2012-02-09 16:33:40 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
 508 2012-02-09 16:35:09 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 509 2012-02-09 16:35:31 Lolcust- has joined
 510 2012-02-09 16:35:56 btc_novice has joined
 511 2012-02-09 16:36:12 Lolcust has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 512 2012-02-09 16:36:22 Lolcust- has quit (Client Quit)
 513 2012-02-09 16:36:59 Lolcust has joined
 514 2012-02-09 16:37:07 b4epoche_ has joined
 515 2012-02-09 16:38:03 b4epoche has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 516 2012-02-09 16:38:03 b4epoche_ is now known as b4epoche
 517 2012-02-09 16:40:22 JRWR has joined
 518 2012-02-09 16:41:48 splatster has quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
 519 2012-02-09 16:50:12 Nicksasa has quit (Read error: No route to host)
 520 2012-02-09 16:50:27 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
 521 2012-02-09 16:50:44 <luke-jr> copumpkin: there's been a pullreq for a long time. one of the many that isn't being pulled for 0.6
 522 2012-02-09 16:50:53 <copumpkin> :(
 523 2012-02-09 16:51:17 Nicksasa has joined
 524 2012-02-09 16:52:34 <luke-jr> copumpkin: it's also not in next-test due to it needing rebasing
 525 2012-02-09 16:53:19 <gmaxwell> It's a pretty non-trivial change though.
 526 2012-02-09 16:53:30 <copumpkin> yeah
 527 2012-02-09 16:53:36 <imsaguy2> I was gonna say, I knew gmaxwell had some saved coins
 528 2012-02-09 16:53:57 <copumpkin> I just think an "advanced mode" for carefully managing your source addresses (and seeing what's on each of them) would be very helpful for more privacy-minded people
 529 2012-02-09 16:54:15 <imsaguy2> that and for better fee management
 530 2012-02-09 16:54:45 <copumpkin> it won't magically make you anonymous, but the ability to not associate addresses as sources would be a big help
 531 2012-02-09 16:55:11 <imsaguy2> yes, identical timestamped sends are a giveaway
 532 2012-02-09 16:55:15 booo has joined
 533 2012-02-09 16:55:28 <copumpkin> well, they're actually associated in the transaction
 534 2012-02-09 16:55:38 <copumpkin> it'll say there are multiple sources and they'll all be in your wallet
 535 2012-02-09 16:55:57 <gmaxwell> imsaguy2: I split out some addresses out of my wallet for that purpose.
 536 2012-02-09 16:56:02 <copumpkin> I don't think there's currently a way for that to happen without the keys being in the same wallet
 537 2012-02-09 16:56:32 <copumpkin> the 2/3 escrow accounts and stuff will complicate the notion of ownership I think
 538 2012-02-09 16:56:41 <copumpkin> but fine-grained control still seems important
 539 2012-02-09 16:56:53 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: It would also be good for the regular automatic coin selection to avoid mixing unconnected addresses where it can.
 540 2012-02-09 16:57:26 <gmaxwell> I'd like to implement that— but first there needs to be code to measure the connectedness.
 541 2012-02-09 16:57:43 <copumpkin> yeah
 542 2012-02-09 16:58:04 <copumpkin> well, you could even arrange to never have multiple sources, it seems
 543 2012-02-09 16:58:08 <gmaxwell> one fundimental limit is that it can't tell all the times when they were connected it.
 544 2012-02-09 16:58:25 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: no, not really— if you that you won't be able to spend all your coin.
 545 2012-02-09 16:58:34 <gmaxwell> (Especially since change is constantly being generated.
 546 2012-02-09 16:58:35 <gmaxwell> )
 547 2012-02-09 16:58:41 <copumpkin> oh, I don't mean about change
 548 2012-02-09 16:58:54 <copumpkin> well, I just meant generate an address, then take each of the sources you were going to use and make a txn to send to that address
 549 2012-02-09 16:58:58 <copumpkin> then spend from that address and keep the change
 550 2012-02-09 16:59:03 <copumpkin> you'd want to spread out the time a bit
 551 2012-02-09 16:59:10 <gmaxwell> ugh.
 552 2012-02-09 16:59:12 <copumpkin> :)
 553 2012-02-09 16:59:12 <copumpkin> yeah
 554 2012-02-09 16:59:51 <gmaxwell> Yea, I'm not of the opinion that we should have direct support for things that achieve greater privacy at the expense of usability or chain bloat.  ... but if we can have greater privacy for ~free... great.
 555 2012-02-09 17:00:06 <copumpkin> yeah, I agree
 556 2012-02-09 17:00:23 <copumpkin> especially the timing issues with the approach I suggested
 557 2012-02-09 17:00:34 <copumpkin> that seems unnecessary to load into the client
 558 2012-02-09 17:00:56 <copumpkin> there could be some dedicated "wallet jumbler" software that does stuff like that slowly over time
 559 2012-02-09 17:01:12 <copumpkin> and by "wallet jumbler", I mean "coin laundry" :)
 560 2012-02-09 17:01:45 <imsaguy2> whatcha trying to hide copumpkin? going rogue?
 561 2012-02-09 17:01:49 <copumpkin> lol no
 562 2012-02-09 17:01:55 <copumpkin> I'm the least anonymous guy ever
 563 2012-02-09 17:02:00 <copumpkin> just thought it'd be neat
 564 2012-02-09 17:02:03 <gmaxwell> sure. And I have pretty much negative interest in that. Especially since there are so many important usability things to do first.
 565 2012-02-09 17:02:23 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: heh. Neat would be having coin selection that made some effort to avoid fees.
 566 2012-02-09 17:02:30 <copumpkin> yeah
 567 2012-02-09 17:04:56 <gmaxwell> hm. a simple hack of a way of doing that would be to add initial select pass with the conf threshold set to min(14400,max(144/amount,6)).
 568 2012-02-09 17:05:15 <gmaxwell> That would only select among the coins where any mixture would be high priority.
 569 2012-02-09 17:05:42 <gmaxwell> (or pretty close to that)
 570 2012-02-09 17:06:21 <luke-jr> copumpkin: If I were writing a new GUI client from scratch, I'd display each output/coin as a variable-sized visual coin, and have money bags to put them in :D
 571 2012-02-09 17:06:30 <copumpkin> lol
 572 2012-02-09 17:06:35 <copumpkin> that'd be kind of cute, actually
 573 2012-02-09 17:06:40 <luke-jr> then to spend, you take em out and melt them in a pot
 574 2012-02-09 17:06:43 <copumpkin> to be able to have sub-"identities" within your wallet
 575 2012-02-09 17:06:50 <copumpkin> where you don't mind about coins in a certain identity mingling as sources
 576 2012-02-09 17:06:56 <imsaguy2> if the ui looked like that, I would stop using it.
 577 2012-02-09 17:07:09 <copumpkin> but it should really avoid cross-identity source pollution
 578 2012-02-09 17:07:09 <luke-jr> imsaguy2: not everyone has to use the same GUI
 579 2012-02-09 17:07:24 <copumpkin> and if it does end up needing that, it could move coins across the identities
 580 2012-02-09 17:07:29 <gmaxwell> I wouldn't use that gui, but it sounds like the sort of thing that would be useful to people.
 581 2012-02-09 17:07:30 <imsaguy2> your right, but we shouldn't be focused on gui's for first graders
 582 2012-02-09 17:07:41 <imsaguy2> you're*
 583 2012-02-09 17:07:52 <luke-jr> imsaguy2: we don't all have the same goals ;)
 584 2012-02-09 17:07:58 <luke-jr> my main audience *are* first graders
 585 2012-02-09 17:08:07 <imsaguy2> blahblahblah*tonal*blahblahblah
 586 2012-02-09 17:08:11 <copumpkin> lol
 587 2012-02-09 17:08:18 <copumpkin> even apart from the coins and money bags
 588 2012-02-09 17:08:29 <copumpkin> I think having the ability to split up your wallet would be cool
 589 2012-02-09 17:08:33 <copumpkin> within the same UI
 590 2012-02-09 17:08:38 <imsaguy2> copumpkin: you do in bitcoind
 591 2012-02-09 17:08:44 <imsaguy2> the concept of accounts
 592 2012-02-09 17:08:52 <imsaguy2> just teh gui doesn't present it well
 593 2012-02-09 17:08:54 <copumpkin> ah, okay
 594 2012-02-09 17:09:00 <imsaguy2> and by well, I mean at all
 595 2012-02-09 17:09:10 <luke-jr> imsaguy2: no
 596 2012-02-09 17:09:16 <luke-jr> accounts don't split up the wallet
 597 2012-02-09 17:09:20 <luke-jr> it's pure abstraction
 598 2012-02-09 17:09:31 <imsaguy2> that's the first step towards splitting
 599 2012-02-09 17:09:39 <imsaguy2> letting users see differences
 600 2012-02-09 17:09:55 <luke-jr> when you send 5 BTC, the coins used are not at all influenced by what account you're sending from
 601 2012-02-09 17:10:07 <imsaguy2> two part problem
 602 2012-02-09 17:10:17 <imsaguy2> the first is the abstraction, the second is the input selection
 603 2012-02-09 17:10:24 <imsaguy2> everyone agrees teh selection arleady sucks
 604 2012-02-09 17:10:28 <imsaguy2> already*
 605 2012-02-09 17:11:31 <imsaguy2> hell, even having eht filters show a sum would be a plus
 606 2012-02-09 17:12:35 <josephcp> if you want to split identities, write a script to juggle multiple wallet files and call it a day, you're not going to be able to do it reliably otherwise
 607 2012-02-09 17:12:44 <josephcp> coin selection for average users sounds like a UI nightmare
 608 2012-02-09 17:13:18 <imsaguy2> copumpkin did say 'advanced mode'
 609 2012-02-09 17:13:40 <copumpkin> josephcp: I also think there are good abstractions that could be provided
 610 2012-02-09 17:13:48 <copumpkin> to make it intuitive even for regular users
 611 2012-02-09 17:13:55 smickles has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 612 2012-02-09 17:14:08 <josephcp> no, i could understand arguing for it in RPC, but the potential for a user not knowing what they're doing and screwing up is guaranteed
 613 2012-02-09 17:14:21 <copumpkin> but the main thing I'd want at first is just to be able to select sources
 614 2012-02-09 17:14:32 smickles has joined
 615 2012-02-09 17:14:34 <copumpkin> josephcp: what could you screw up?
 616 2012-02-09 17:14:41 booo has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 617 2012-02-09 17:15:51 <imsaguy2> you have a toggle that alternates between auto select and manual select
 618 2012-02-09 17:15:54 <josephcp> people aren't careful they'll send from the default address sooner or later
 619 2012-02-09 17:16:01 <josephcp> default account
 620 2012-02-09 17:16:08 <imsaguy2> the worst that can happen is they choose inefficient addresses
 621 2012-02-09 17:16:13 <copumpkin> I mean, that kind of thing is trivial to warn against in the UI
 622 2012-02-09 17:16:24 <copumpkin> I don't see why you're just rejecting the idea categorically
 623 2012-02-09 17:16:33 <josephcp> they'll combine stuff sooner or later, the privacy gain from making it easy to split up coins is a lot smaller than you think
 624 2012-02-09 17:16:43 <copumpkin> how so?
 625 2012-02-09 17:16:46 <imsaguy2> you'd be surprised.
 626 2012-02-09 17:16:48 <copumpkin> associating source addresses is huge
 627 2012-02-09 17:16:51 <josephcp> whereas if it's physically hard from a UI perspective they won't screw up
 628 2012-02-09 17:17:19 <josephcp> you're solving a UI problem, the end result is it's easier to mix up addresses
 629 2012-02-09 17:17:24 <josephcp> creating a false sense of security
 630 2012-02-09 17:17:29 <copumpkin> meh
 631 2012-02-09 17:18:02 <josephcp> i would like an RPC call, but not for anonymization purposes...
 632 2012-02-09 17:20:32 <cjd> if people globed together transactions using out-of-band communication, collecting together outputs then adding inputs with ANYONECANPAY, it would be pretty trickey figuring out who paid who
 633 2012-02-09 17:21:03 <cjd> obviously if everyone used 1 in, 2 out transactions, it would be easy to take apart but other than that it would be a mess
 634 2012-02-09 17:21:43 <cjd> but alas, anonymous payment tends to bring around the people with the wrong sort of intentions
 635 2012-02-09 17:22:37 <copumpkin> do you think users' intentions should really be a concern of the developers?
 636 2012-02-09 17:22:57 p0s has joined
 637 2012-02-09 17:23:00 <copumpkin> beyond prioritizing feature work, it seems weird to try to actively discourage certain kinds of behavior unless they're technically detrimental
 638 2012-02-09 17:23:47 <cjd> if bitcoin is seen as a criminal enterprise then it does hurt development
 639 2012-02-09 17:24:38 <copumpkin> but I don't think any feature is inherently criminal
 640 2012-02-09 17:24:51 <copumpkin> legitimate users can strive for anonymity or untraceable transactions as well
 641 2012-02-09 17:24:56 <cjd> but it's a toss-up, sometimes anonymity is needed for completely valid reasons, which is why I bothered to mention the idea ;)
 642 2012-02-09 17:25:05 <copumpkin> otherwise, it's basically applying the "if you have nothing to hide…" argument
 643 2012-02-09 17:25:09 <copumpkin> which is kind of gross :P
 644 2012-02-09 17:25:54 * cjd doesn't dispute that
 645 2012-02-09 17:26:52 <luke-jr> copumpkin: hiding the source of funds is a crime (laundry), so that feature is inherently criminal
 646 2012-02-09 17:27:03 <copumpkin> why?
 647 2012-02-09 17:27:12 <luke-jr> I just said why
 648 2012-02-09 17:27:40 <copumpkin> "Money laundering refers to the process of concealing the source of illegally obtained money."
 649 2012-02-09 17:27:51 <luke-jr> not just illegally obtained
 650 2012-02-09 17:28:01 <cjd> as developers, we have the power to shape reality, it's important that we use that power to make a reality where people are better off.
 651 2012-02-09 17:29:44 helo has quit (Quit: leaving)
 652 2012-02-09 17:30:08 helo has joined
 653 2012-02-09 17:30:47 <Idiot___> cjd: why not make it worse off?
 654 2012-02-09 17:30:59 Varan has joined
 655 2012-02-09 17:31:24 <josephcp> forewarning, Idiot___ is a troll
 656 2012-02-09 17:31:32 <Varan> Is there a way to get historic trade data from Tradehill where you can also see if the trade is a buy or a sell?
 657 2012-02-09 17:31:46 <Idiot___> no josephcp, Moron__ was a troll, but ive taken care of him ;)
 658 2012-02-09 17:32:25 <cjd> hahaha
 659 2012-02-09 17:33:13 <gmaxwell> 09:15 < copumpkin> do you think users' intentions should really be a concern of the developers?
 660 2012-02-09 17:33:37 <gmaxwell> I don't want to waste my time writing or reviewing functionality which is mostly or exclusively useful for criminal purposes.
 661 2012-02-09 17:33:46 <copumpkin> oh yeah
 662 2012-02-09 17:33:50 <copumpkin> that's what I meant about prioritizing
 663 2012-02-09 17:33:53 <gmaxwell> But I don't think thats generally relevant here. Privacy feaures are more important for non-criminals.
 664 2012-02-09 17:33:56 <copumpkin> also legality isn't a universal thing
 665 2012-02-09 17:34:03 <copumpkin> and yeah
 666 2012-02-09 17:34:15 <gmaxwell> (criminals can presumably take care of themselves, or they won't stay criminals for long)
 667 2012-02-09 17:34:16 <copumpkin> that's what I meant about the "if you have nothing to hide" type of argument
 668 2012-02-09 17:34:33 pusle has joined
 669 2012-02-09 17:35:17 iocor has joined
 670 2012-02-09 17:36:31 <helo> with normal money there's a difference between hiding your identity from the general populace, and hiding your identity from law enforcement or government
 671 2012-02-09 17:36:34 <helo> with bitcoin it's the same thing
 672 2012-02-09 17:36:45 BlueMatt has joined
 673 2012-02-09 17:36:46 <gmaxwell> helo: No .. not quite.
 674 2012-02-09 17:37:03 <gmaxwell> For example, in the former case you can freely use exchanges in the later case you can not.
 675 2012-02-09 17:37:08 <Idiot___> im not really a criminal, but i dont like following laws
 676 2012-02-09 17:37:19 <Idiot___> whats wrong with that?
 677 2012-02-09 17:37:58 <gmaxwell> helo: likewise, the general public is not likely to be applying especially powerful analytic tools— or massively monitoring the internet, so weaker measures are required.
 678 2012-02-09 17:41:36 lolcat} has quit (Changing host)
 679 2012-02-09 17:41:37 lolcat} has joined
 680 2012-02-09 17:42:09 <helo> i guess i was overly broad... many of the same techniques for obfuscating bitcoin ownership apply to both
 681 2012-02-09 17:42:54 <Idiot___> is it possible to get tor on a mobile phone?
 682 2012-02-09 17:43:34 <helo> for example, if you ran a service where you held a lot of bitcoin at a particular address, you would have a lot of incentive to protect your identity as much as possible to deter thieves, many of which could use some of the same powerful analytical techniques as law enforcement
 683 2012-02-09 17:44:20 <helo> so would using those techniques be considered money laundering, if they serve practical safety goals?
 684 2012-02-09 17:44:25 ThomasV has joined
 685 2012-02-09 17:44:30 ThomasV has quit (Changing host)
 686 2012-02-09 17:44:30 ThomasV has joined
 687 2012-02-09 17:45:04 wasabi3 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 688 2012-02-09 17:46:08 <helo> with normal money systems balance information is not available in any way to the general public, so there is no obfuscation required in the name of safety
 689 2012-02-09 17:46:25 <BTC_Bear> helo: Thank you, so many point to criminal activity when there are legitimate reasons. But the powers that be would rather send the innocent to jail rather than let anybody go. :(
 690 2012-02-09 17:47:11 <wumpus> Idiot___: yes, at least for android
 691 2012-02-09 17:47:14 <Idiot___> innocent people are in jail?
 692 2012-02-09 17:48:09 <wumpus> https://www.torproject.org/docs/android.html.en
 693 2012-02-09 17:48:57 <Idiot___> that seems sad
 694 2012-02-09 17:49:07 <Idiot___> do you think one day bitcoins will help innocent people escape from jail?
 695 2012-02-09 17:49:17 <ThomasV> Idiot___: you too are in jail
 696 2012-02-09 17:49:27 <ThomasV> you just don't know it
 697 2012-02-09 17:49:34 <Idiot___> ? How?
 698 2012-02-09 17:49:40 <wumpus> we're all inside the panopticon
 699 2012-02-09 17:50:34 egecko has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 700 2012-02-09 17:50:42 molecular has joined
 701 2012-02-09 17:52:29 <Idiot___> so if you had to commit one crime, what would it be?
 702 2012-02-09 17:52:30 m3rde has joined
 703 2012-02-09 17:52:40 <NxTitle> copyright infringement
 704 2012-02-09 17:52:45 <NxTitle> criminal
 705 2012-02-09 17:52:48 <NxTitle> copyright infringement
 706 2012-02-09 17:52:54 <Idiot___> anyone else?
 707 2012-02-09 17:52:58 <NxTitle> because apparently criminal copyright infringement is a thing
 708 2012-02-09 17:53:40 <helo> bitcoin will help innocent people get out of jail just as easily as guilty people, afaict
 709 2012-02-09 17:54:23 wasabi1 has joined
 710 2012-02-09 17:54:28 merde has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 711 2012-02-09 17:55:57 <Idiot___> cool helo :)
 712 2012-02-09 17:56:47 <Idiot___> whats the best strategy for getting out of jail helo?
 713 2012-02-09 17:57:24 <NxTitle> hacksaw
 714 2012-02-09 17:57:37 <NxTitle> unfortunately you can't usually bring those in with you
 715 2012-02-09 17:57:38 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 716 2012-02-09 17:58:01 molecular has joined
 717 2012-02-09 17:58:37 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not too sure.)
 718 2012-02-09 17:59:23 <edcba> door key
 719 2012-02-09 17:59:24 <helo> dunno, using money/bitcoin probably something involving bribes to security people
 720 2012-02-09 17:59:50 <Idiot___> oh do you think that might be made easier with bitcoin?
 721 2012-02-09 17:59:59 <Idiot___> because theres a few crimes i wanna commit and i dont wanna be stuck in a cell for too long
 722 2012-02-09 18:00:01 <FROTUSCI> tell them you work at a bank
 723 2012-02-09 18:00:07 <josephcp> can you move this to #bitcoin ?
 724 2012-02-09 18:00:19 <nanotube> no don't. move this to #notbitcoin.
 725 2012-02-09 18:00:20 <Idiot___> oh ok josephcp
 726 2012-02-09 18:00:30 <josephcp> lol
 727 2012-02-09 18:00:42 <BlueMatt> isnt there a #bitcoin-offtopic
 728 2012-02-09 18:00:51 <UukGoblin> #bitcoin-otc. ;-)
 729 2012-02-09 18:00:57 <UukGoblin> (sorry, couldn't stop it)
 730 2012-02-09 18:01:15 <nanotube> ​;;kban UukGoblin *wrath*
 731 2012-02-09 18:01:16 <nanotube> :)
 732 2012-02-09 18:01:32 <UukGoblin> ;-)
 733 2012-02-09 18:01:49 <nanotube> BlueMatt: there is, actually
 734 2012-02-09 18:28:05 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 735 2012-02-09 18:32:11 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 736 2012-02-09 18:34:27 Joric has joined
 737 2012-02-09 18:34:31 Joric has quit (Changing host)
 738 2012-02-09 18:34:31 Joric has joined
 739 2012-02-09 18:40:31 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 740 2012-02-09 18:41:58 barmstrong has joined
 741 2012-02-09 18:42:40 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 742 2012-02-09 18:44:21 pingdrive has joined
 743 2012-02-09 18:44:39 Cablesaurus has joined
 744 2012-02-09 18:44:39 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
 745 2012-02-09 18:44:39 Cablesaurus has joined
 746 2012-02-09 18:45:36 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 747 2012-02-09 18:49:57 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 748 2012-02-09 18:50:13 _Fireball has joined
 749 2012-02-09 18:50:47 Joric has joined
 750 2012-02-09 18:50:48 Joric has quit (Changing host)
 751 2012-02-09 18:50:48 Joric has joined
 752 2012-02-09 18:52:20 Yarou_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 753 2012-02-09 18:53:37 chrisb__ has joined
 754 2012-02-09 18:55:49 smickles is now known as smickles|idle
 755 2012-02-09 19:00:04 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 756 2012-02-09 19:02:53 smickles is now known as idle!~michael@cpe-071-070-169-083.nc.res.rr.com|smickles
 757 2012-02-09 19:03:52 Joric has joined
 758 2012-02-09 19:03:53 Joric has quit (Changing host)
 759 2012-02-09 19:03:53 Joric has joined
 760 2012-02-09 19:04:32 splatster has joined
 761 2012-02-09 19:08:46 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 762 2012-02-09 19:09:53 FROTUSCI has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 763 2012-02-09 19:12:47 Joric has joined
 764 2012-02-09 19:19:04 agricocb has joined
 765 2012-02-09 19:19:29 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 766 2012-02-09 19:24:15 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 767 2012-02-09 19:26:17 JStoker has quit (Excess Flood)
 768 2012-02-09 19:28:19 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 769 2012-02-09 19:29:33 <Diablo-D3> hey gmaxwell
 770 2012-02-09 19:29:38 <Diablo-D3> how do I build bitcoin without pnp?
 771 2012-02-09 19:30:35 <cjd> make -f makefile.unix USE_UPNP=
 772 2012-02-09 19:30:37 <cjd> iirc
 773 2012-02-09 19:30:41 <cjd> unless it changed...
 774 2012-02-09 19:31:16 <Diablo-D3> why the hell does bitcoin use an obscure lib anyhow
 775 2012-02-09 19:31:17 <Diablo-D3> its nuts
 776 2012-02-09 19:32:51 <cjd> I used cmake for my project and used ExternalProject.cmake which allows the build process to download, build, and static link dependencies
 777 2012-02-09 19:33:20 <cjd> very nice if people don't know how to ./configure && make && make install libevent2
 778 2012-02-09 19:33:40 cande has joined
 779 2012-02-09 19:34:21 iocor has joined
 780 2012-02-09 19:34:31 iocor has quit (Changing host)
 781 2012-02-09 19:34:32 iocor has joined
 782 2012-02-09 19:34:34 pingdrive has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 783 2012-02-09 19:34:40 <Idiot___> why does diablo use an obscure head?
 784 2012-02-09 19:34:54 <Idiot___> ohps
 785 2012-02-09 19:37:02 JStoker has joined
 786 2012-02-09 19:37:07 <midnightmagic> unfortunately, USE_UPNP is right there in the makefile as USE_UPNP:=0 . You have to comment that out entirely to undefine USE_UPNP.
 787 2012-02-09 19:37:46 <midnightmagic> (and thereby DROP that code entirely from the codebase.)
 788 2012-02-09 19:38:26 sacarlson has joined
 789 2012-02-09 19:40:15 <Diablo-D3> In file included from protocol.cpp:7:0:
 790 2012-02-09 19:40:16 <Diablo-D3> util.h:760:8: error: 'uint32_t' does not name a type
 791 2012-02-09 19:40:17 <Diablo-D3> derp srsly?
 792 2012-02-09 19:42:14 <cjd> find ./ -name '*.h' -exec grep 'stdint.h' {} \; -print
 793 2012-02-09 19:43:17 <Diablo-D3> this is on uclibc, btw
 794 2012-02-09 19:43:50 <Diablo-D3> #define __STDC_LIMIT_MACROS // to enable UINT64_MAX from stdint.h
 795 2012-02-09 19:43:51 <Diablo-D3> ./headers.h
 796 2012-02-09 19:43:51 <Diablo-D3> #include <boost/cstdint.hpp>
 797 2012-02-09 19:43:51 <Diablo-D3> ./json/json_spirit_value.h
 798 2012-02-09 19:44:39 <cjd> hahaha
 799 2012-02-09 19:44:49 <cjd> headers doesn't have stdint.h in it
 800 2012-02-09 19:44:55 <cjd> sounds like a pull request
 801 2012-02-09 19:45:13 <Diablo-D3> Im not using git, Im using 0.5.2 release =P
 802 2012-02-09 19:45:17 <Idiot___> i pulled diablos mom last night ;)
 803 2012-02-09 19:45:39 <Diablo-D3> I might as well perform that locally, just a sec
 804 2012-02-09 19:47:06 <Idiot___> she had very good mouth skills ;)
 805 2012-02-09 19:47:25 a_meteorite has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 806 2012-02-09 19:48:01 <Diablo-D3> cjd: did you know I have not previously fork bitcoin on github?
 807 2012-02-09 19:48:03 <Diablo-D3> this surprises me
 808 2012-02-09 19:48:48 <Idiot___> no its true :)
 809 2012-02-09 19:49:19 <cjd> heh
 810 2012-02-09 19:51:58 <Diablo-D3> huh
 811 2012-02-09 19:52:00 <Diablo-D3> cjd: this is weird
 812 2012-02-09 19:52:11 <Diablo-D3> adding that doesnt fix it
 813 2012-02-09 19:52:33 midnightmagic has quit (Excess Flood)
 814 2012-02-09 19:52:38 <cjd> I gather util.h pulls in headers.h
 815 2012-02-09 19:52:41 <cjd> correct?
 816 2012-02-09 19:52:58 <Diablo-D3> oh goddamnit
 817 2012-02-09 19:52:59 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt.
 818 2012-02-09 19:53:07 midnightmagic has joined
 819 2012-02-09 19:53:08 midnightmagic has quit (Excess Flood)
 820 2012-02-09 19:53:23 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: no, you don't
 821 2012-02-09 19:53:29 <Diablo-D3> protocol.c is include protocol.h and util.h...
 822 2012-02-09 19:53:33 <gmaxwell> make bitcoind USE_UPNP= works fine
 823 2012-02-09 19:53:37 midnightmagic has joined
 824 2012-02-09 19:53:38 midnightmagic has quit (Excess Flood)
 825 2012-02-09 19:53:55 Nicksasa has quit (Read error: No route to host)
 826 2012-02-09 19:53:59 <Diablo-D3> protocol.h is serialize.h string uint256.h....
 827 2012-02-09 19:54:07 midnightmagic has joined
 828 2012-02-09 19:54:08 midnightmagic has quit (Excess Flood)
 829 2012-02-09 19:54:13 <gmaxwell> damnit.
 830 2012-02-09 19:54:16 <Diablo-D3> serialize.h is nothing useful
 831 2012-02-09 19:54:30 <Diablo-D3> and uint256.h is nothing useful
 832 2012-02-09 19:54:37 midnightmagic has joined
 833 2012-02-09 19:54:37 <cjd> make sure util.h #includes headers.h
 834 2012-02-09 19:54:38 midnightmagic has quit (Excess Flood)
 835 2012-02-09 19:54:47 <Diablo-D3> yeah I should
 836 2012-02-09 19:55:00 <cjd> haha midnightmagic decided to paste debug.log to irc again :P
 837 2012-02-09 19:55:08 midnightmagic has joined
 838 2012-02-09 19:55:08 midnightmagic has quit (Excess Flood)
 839 2012-02-09 19:55:38 midnightmagic has joined
 840 2012-02-09 19:55:39 <Diablo-D3> cjd: THATS A BAD IDEA
 841 2012-02-09 19:55:48 a_meteorite has joined
 842 2012-02-09 19:55:59 <Diablo-D3> it goes apeshit on c++ bullshit
 843 2012-02-09 19:56:10 <Diablo-D3> I can just add stdint.h
 844 2012-02-09 19:56:30 phantomfake has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 845 2012-02-09 19:57:08 Nicksasa has joined
 846 2012-02-09 19:58:50 <Diablo-D3> ffs
 847 2012-02-09 19:58:55 <Diablo-D3> this is the fucking shittiest code ever
 848 2012-02-09 19:59:04 phantomfake has joined
 849 2012-02-09 19:59:18 <Diablo-D3> bitcoinrpc.cpp: In function 'json_spirit::Value getmemorypool(const Array&, bool)':
 850 2012-02-09 19:59:18 <Diablo-D3> bitcoinrpc.cpp:1770:30: error: expected primary-expression before '(' token
 851 2012-02-09 19:59:18 <Diablo-D3> bitcoinrpc.cpp:1770:49: error: reference to 'int64_t' is ambiguous
 852 2012-02-09 19:59:18 <Diablo-D3> /usr/include/sys/types.h:198:1: error: candidates are: typedef long int int64_t
 853 2012-02-09 19:59:18 <Diablo-D3> /usr/include/boost/cstdint.hpp:308:50: error:                 typedef boost::long_long_type boost::int64_t
 854 2012-02-09 19:59:20 <Diablo-D3> bitcoinrpc.cpp:1771:30: error: expected primary-expression before '(' token
 855 2012-02-09 19:59:22 <Diablo-D3> bitcoinrpc.cpp:1771:40: error: reference to 'int64_t' is ambiguous
 856 2012-02-09 19:59:24 <Diablo-D3> /usr/include/sys/types.h:198:1: error: candidates are: typedef long int int64_t
 857 2012-02-09 19:59:26 <Diablo-D3> /usr/include/boost/cstdint.hpp:308:50: error:                 typedef boost::long_long_type boost::int64_t
 858 2012-02-09 19:59:29 <Diablo-D3> make: *** [obj/nogui/bitcoinrpc.o] Error 1
 859 2012-02-09 19:59:32 <Idiot___> flooder
 860 2012-02-09 19:59:48 chrisb__ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 861 2012-02-09 20:00:27 <cjd> boost?
 862 2012-02-09 20:00:32 <cjd> why do you have to suck?
 863 2012-02-09 20:01:00 <Diablo-D3> I have boost installed, so I dont think its that
 864 2012-02-09 20:02:17 <cjd> typedef boost::long_long_type  boost::int64_t <-- that's what I was referring to
 865 2012-02-09 20:03:07 <Diablo-D3> fucking c++
 866 2012-02-09 20:03:40 <cjd> hmm
 867 2012-02-09 20:03:50 <cjd> where is cstdint.hpp pulled in?
 868 2012-02-09 20:03:54 savage has joined
 869 2012-02-09 20:04:09 <cjd> try adding that to headers.h instead of stdint.h
 870 2012-02-09 20:04:47 <cjd> C++ ~ attack of the computer science graduates
 871 2012-02-09 20:05:30 <XMPPwocky> C++: At least it's not Java!
 872 2012-02-09 20:05:33 splatster has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
 873 2012-02-09 20:05:58 <cjd> maintainability, portibility and performance be damned, we want it to *look* nice
 874 2012-02-09 20:06:47 <savage> Hey, does the nonce always start at 0 when mining?
 875 2012-02-09 20:07:01 _Fireball has quit (Quit:  HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Chicks dig it)
 876 2012-02-09 20:07:01 <XMPPwocky> IBitcoinBlockHasherFactory
 877 2012-02-09 20:07:04 <XMPPwocky> savage: nope
 878 2012-02-09 20:07:08 <XMPPwocky> that'd be stupid
 879 2012-02-09 20:07:25 <savage> yeah I thought it was weird..
 880 2012-02-09 20:07:40 <savage> it says so on this page: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_hashing_algorithm
 881 2012-02-09 20:07:44 <XMPPwocky> if the nonce starts at zero, your miner is dumb.
 882 2012-02-09 20:08:41 <savage> How often should I imagine the merkle root is updated on a miner?
 883 2012-02-09 20:09:14 <XMPPwocky> savage: presumably, whenever a new TX is accepted
 884 2012-02-09 20:09:33 <savage> so how often would that be in practice?
 885 2012-02-09 20:09:53 <XMPPwocky> look in blockexplorer
 886 2012-02-09 20:10:24 <Diablo-D3> c++ was designed by people too stupid to use c.
 887 2012-02-09 20:10:43 Varan has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 888 2012-02-09 20:11:22 <lianj> and java by their childs
 889 2012-02-09 20:11:34 <Diablo-D3> lianj: you know
 890 2012-02-09 20:11:34 <savage> wow only 50 transactions in a block?
 891 2012-02-09 20:11:36 <Diablo-D3> I dont get that
 892 2012-02-09 20:11:43 <Diablo-D3> why do people keep saying java and C++ is related
 893 2012-02-09 20:11:45 <Diablo-D3> they're not
 894 2012-02-09 20:12:24 <Diablo-D3> json/json_spirit_value.h:#include <boost/cstdint.hpp>
 895 2012-02-09 20:12:25 <Diablo-D3> huh.
 896 2012-02-09 20:14:15 [7] has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 897 2012-02-09 20:14:41 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: are you fixed now?
 898 2012-02-09 20:14:47 <gmaxwell> 11:46 < gmaxwell> midnightmagic: no, you don't
 899 2012-02-09 20:14:50 <gmaxwell> 11:46 < gmaxwell> make bitcoind USE_UPNP= works fine
 900 2012-02-09 20:14:57 <lianj> Diablo-D3: related by awkwardness
 901 2012-02-09 20:15:07 <Diablo-D3> heh
 902 2012-02-09 20:15:08 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: and is documented clearly in doc/build-unix.txt
 903 2012-02-09 20:15:37 <JimRogers> savage
 904 2012-02-09 20:15:44 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: Fixed as in my momentary attempt to run multiple clients behind my idiotic shitty bouncer?
 905 2012-02-09 20:15:51 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
 906 2012-02-09 20:16:21 <savage> So let me get this straight... each time a block is found in the longest chain, or a new TX is accepted, the miner's block header changes?
 907 2012-02-09 20:16:32 <savage> And the nonce is just random?
 908 2012-02-09 20:16:52 <savage> yes JimRogers ?
 909 2012-02-09 20:17:46 <Diablo-D3> cjd: no, adding that to headers.h doesnt fix it
 910 2012-02-09 20:18:28 <cjd> you removed stdint.h?
 911 2012-02-09 20:18:32 TheSeven has joined
 912 2012-02-09 20:18:57 nx201 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 913 2012-02-09 20:21:05 <gmaxwell> savage: its whatever it wants it to be. It doesn't matter what it is.
 914 2012-02-09 20:21:11 <Diablo-D3> I love how main.cpp isnt the last file compiled
 915 2012-02-09 20:21:32 <cjd> because it depends on everything else?
 916 2012-02-09 20:21:42 <Diablo-D3> because its tradition
 917 2012-02-09 20:21:55 <Diablo-D3> and yes, I made sure, stdint.h isnt in headers.h, yours is
 918 2012-02-09 20:21:58 <Diablo-D3> still doesnt work
 919 2012-02-09 20:22:20 <savage> gmaxwell: so it wouldn't matter if it always started at 0 then, true?
 920 2012-02-09 20:22:36 <gmaxwell> savage: most RPC miners do start it at zero, in fact.
 921 2012-02-09 20:22:46 <Diablo-D3> DM starts at 0
 922 2012-02-09 20:23:12 <Diablo-D3> goddamn fucking boost, it can suck my dick
 923 2012-02-09 20:23:29 <gmaxwell> savage: Why are you asking?
 924 2012-02-09 20:23:44 <savage> I'm just trying to understand bitcoin a little better :)
 925 2012-02-09 20:24:06 <gmaxwell> savage: ah, I asked because I'm trying to make sure you're not suffering any of several related common misconceptions in this area.
 926 2012-02-09 20:24:06 <savage> but I understand now.. it can always start at 0 because each person has a unique merkle root
 927 2012-02-09 20:24:28 <gmaxwell> savage: Correct. Their root will be different by virtue of paying to themselves, if for no other reason.
 928 2012-02-09 20:24:40 <Diablo-D3> savage: an average GPU can complete the entire nonce range in about 15-20 seconds.
 929 2012-02-09 20:24:57 <savage> Wow !
 930 2012-02-09 20:25:06 <Diablo-D3> mhash = million hashes per second
 931 2012-02-09 20:25:31 <Diablo-D3> hash is a 32 bit int, which is 4 billion something
 932 2012-02-09 20:25:33 <savage> so then you change the timestamp and try again?
 933 2012-02-09 20:25:33 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: ah, it's not an override in makefile.unix.. so the cli arg takes precedence. I was temporarily under the illusion that you could set a shell var that way, and it wouldn't show up as an argv..
 934 2012-02-09 20:25:36 <Diablo-D3> er, nonce is
 935 2012-02-09 20:25:39 <gmaxwell> 2^32h / 350mh/s = 12 seconds.
 936 2012-02-09 20:25:52 <Diablo-D3> savage: if you rollntime you can change the time field
 937 2012-02-09 20:25:55 <savage> if no other new information has reached you by then
 938 2012-02-09 20:26:02 <savage> yeah exactly
 939 2012-02-09 20:26:07 <Diablo-D3> not all pools support it
 940 2012-02-09 20:26:27 <gmaxwell> savage: normally you change it as the time changes. You may also change it to expand the space available to you to avoid recalculating the root.
 941 2012-02-09 20:26:33 marf_away has joined
 942 2012-02-09 20:27:06 <savage> yeah so the nonce can just keep wrapping around, it never even has to reset to 0...
 943 2012-02-09 20:27:14 <gmaxwell> with remote rpc miners they can't recalculate the hash tree.. so to get more work once they've done the whole nonce range their only options are to fudge the time or contact the server.
 944 2012-02-09 20:27:21 <Diablo-D3> it can wrap around, but it doesnt matter
 945 2012-02-09 20:27:30 <Diablo-D3> reseting to 0 makes early getwork fetch due to saturation easier
 946 2012-02-09 20:27:33 <savage> since it just doesn't matter, as long as you don't do the same exact block header twice
 947 2012-02-09 20:28:02 <gmaxwell> Right. Though you can't make the time too far off or your block won't be accepted.
 948 2012-02-09 20:28:03 cande has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 949 2012-02-09 20:28:10 <Diablo-D3> Ive actually been considering counting backwards
 950 2012-02-09 20:28:13 <gmaxwell> You can only go 2 hours into the future. (actually somewhat less)
 951 2012-02-09 20:28:19 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: thats really dangerous. Do not do that.
 952 2012-02-09 20:28:22 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 953 2012-02-09 20:28:29 <Diablo-D3> what, the nonce?
 954 2012-02-09 20:28:34 <savage> and I guess the first transaction in the block will always be there due to transaction fees, even if generation reward eventually reaches 0
 955 2012-02-09 20:28:35 <gmaxwell> oh the nonce, I thought you meant time.
 956 2012-02-09 20:28:38 <gmaxwell> nonce is fine.
 957 2012-02-09 20:28:46 <Diablo-D3> oh hell no, time backwards usually ends up with paradoxes.
 958 2012-02-09 20:28:46 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 959 2012-02-09 20:29:07 <gmaxwell> savage: yes. And you can add extra randomness to it— this is how pools give distinct work to seperate users even though all pay the same place.
 960 2012-02-09 20:29:20 <gmaxwell> 'randomness' .. well just a counter in the coinbase txn.
 961 2012-02-09 20:31:21 <savage> very interesting
 962 2012-02-09 20:31:30 <Diablo-D3> welp, I guess I wont be running bitcoin on my vps.
 963 2012-02-09 20:31:41 mod6_ is now known as mod6
 964 2012-02-09 20:32:57 <savage> so how does the transaction-creator know what the transaction fee will be?
 965 2012-02-09 20:33:22 <gmaxwell> savage: (fwiw, a _lot_ of people make the mistake of thinking that they've lost effort when a new block arrives and makes you change things in the header)
 966 2012-02-09 20:33:28 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: refresh my memory: two getwork coming in within a microsecond of one another will have different outputs by virtue of.. what?
 967 2012-02-09 20:33:36 BTC_Bear is now known as BTC_Bear|hbrntng
 968 2012-02-09 20:33:44 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: extranonce incrementing.
 969 2012-02-09 20:33:50 <midnightmagic> right!
 970 2012-02-09 20:33:55 <midnightmagic> right..  thanks.
 971 2012-02-09 20:34:10 molecular has joined
 972 2012-02-09 20:34:19 <gmaxwell> savage: They know by virtue of nodes implementing similar rules today.
 973 2012-02-09 20:34:41 <gmaxwell> savage: which is not very useful, but its workable at the moment because txn fees are really only used for anti-ddos purposes.
 974 2012-02-09 20:34:58 <gmaxwell> Average fees per block are only 0.02 or so.
 975 2012-02-09 20:35:33 <savage> i see... but in theory it could be anything?
 976 2012-02-09 20:35:41 <gmaxwell> (basically txn's which can't be objectively distinguished from a ddos attack won't be forwarded without a fee, and your own node applies the same test before making a transaction)
 977 2012-02-09 20:35:42 <savage> or is there a treshold in what fees the network will accept?
 978 2012-02-09 20:35:59 <gmaxwell> savage: not as a rule of the protocol, there is just a norm in the existing software.
 979 2012-02-09 20:36:10 <midnightmagic> I saw fees upwards of 18BTC a few hundred blocks ago
 980 2012-02-09 20:36:23 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: yes, there are some people doing funny things from time to time.
 981 2012-02-09 20:37:07 <savage> the lost effort mistake is a mistake because...?
 982 2012-02-09 20:37:14 <gmaxwell> Either broken custom software, user error with the tx fee dialog ("1,000"), moronic attempts at money laundering, or intentionally very generous option settings.
 983 2012-02-09 20:37:44 <savage> every block header is equally likely to be a good solution, whether the nonce changes or another part of it?
 984 2012-02-09 20:37:55 <gmaxwell> savage: because mining is independantly likely to succeed. Doesn't matter what fields you change.
 985 2012-02-09 20:37:58 <gmaxwell> right.
 986 2012-02-09 20:38:01 <savage> yeah ok
 987 2012-02-09 20:38:33 <savage> you are very helpful, thanks :)
 988 2012-02-09 20:38:59 <gmaxwell> yea, a lot of people think they're searching a meaningfully finite space (it isn't) and that they are sure to find a solution if they search enough of it (they aren't), and that changing blocks changes the space they're looking in (not really) invalidating their prior work (there was nothing conserved in the first place).
 989 2012-02-09 20:39:43 <cjd> haha
 990 2012-02-09 20:39:44 <savage> yes I can see how that would be hard to comprehend if you are not familiar with hash functions
 991 2012-02-09 20:40:07 <gmaxwell> we use confusing words like "search" sometimes.
 992 2012-02-09 20:40:21 <Diablo-D3> search isnt confusing
 993 2012-02-09 20:40:41 <Diablo-D3> its the word find that most people have problems with
 994 2012-02-09 20:40:51 <savage> how many bytes is the block header?
 995 2012-02-09 20:40:54 <gmaxwell> savage: 80.
 996 2012-02-09 20:41:05 <Diablo-D3> find is a concurrent state along side search
 997 2012-02-09 20:41:26 <midnightmagic> It's the idea of a keyspace or a cipher bruteforce that people are confusing with a hash target.
 998 2012-02-09 20:41:30 <Diablo-D3> one can find things without searching, and searching can both either not end in a find or not end with a find
 999 2012-02-09 20:42:02 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: the hash is not a permutation.
1000 2012-02-09 20:42:08 <gmaxwell> (er, I was agreeing there)
1001 2012-02-09 20:42:12 <midnightmagic> :)
1002 2012-02-09 20:42:16 <gmaxwell> (somehow the "yea," got dropped)
1003 2012-02-09 20:42:23 <Diablo-D3> yet people smoke joints
1004 2012-02-09 20:42:30 <midnightmagic> Maybe you have a KVM like mine. Never buy Aten. :(
1005 2012-02-09 20:42:33 <Diablo-D3> so an iteration maybe?
1006 2012-02-09 20:42:39 <savage> but 80 bits is a finite space, right?
1007 2012-02-09 20:42:52 <cjd> byte != bit
1008 2012-02-09 20:42:53 <gmaxwell> savage: 80 bytes not bits.
1009 2012-02-09 20:42:54 <Diablo-D3> 80 bytes
1010 2012-02-09 20:43:03 <savage> oh right :)
1011 2012-02-09 20:43:03 <gmaxwell> And it's technically finite, but it's not meaningfully finite.
1012 2012-02-09 20:43:22 <Diablo-D3> the entire search space for every block ever: 2**256.
1013 2012-02-09 20:43:29 <Diablo-D3> and even thats wrong
1014 2012-02-09 20:43:32 <Diablo-D3> its bigger
1015 2012-02-09 20:43:36 <gmaxwell> It's like— I tell you there is a needle located someplace in the whole universe with equal probability. You search half your living room and then I teleport you to china. Have you lost any effort? :)
1016 2012-02-09 20:43:55 <savage> Haha that's a great way to put it :)
1017 2012-02-09 20:43:59 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: DUDE WE NEED TO GET CHINA TO MINE
1018 2012-02-09 20:44:10 <Diablo-D3> \o/
1019 2012-02-09 20:44:16 <savage> although I suspect mining would be easier in Korea
1020 2012-02-09 20:44:24 <savage> due to cultural acceptance
1021 2012-02-09 20:44:27 <midnightmagic> It's near the possibility range of extremely unlikely things happening.. like suddenly sinking down through the chair you're sitting on and stuff.
1022 2012-02-09 20:44:40 Zarutian has joined
1023 2012-02-09 20:44:41 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: dude, Ive heard some drugs can do that
1024 2012-02-09 20:44:50 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: I wouldn't know!
1025 2012-02-09 20:45:05 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: But.. which ones?
1026 2012-02-09 20:45:16 <Diablo-D3> lets try ALL the drugs \o/
1027 2012-02-09 20:45:24 <midnightmagic> Together then!
1028 2012-02-09 20:45:36 <savage> It's funny you mention that... because bitcoin has enabled places like Silk Road to exist
1029 2012-02-09 20:45:39 * Diablo-D3 hops off to silkroad
1030 2012-02-09 20:45:51 <Diablo-D3> aaaand we all race to the silkroad punchline
1031 2012-02-09 20:45:57 <midnightmagic> sweet.
1032 2012-02-09 20:46:11 <savage> I didnt realize :p
1033 2012-02-09 20:46:16 <savage> but I can imagine it gets old
1034 2012-02-09 20:46:21 <midnightmagic> savage: Cash is similarly effective. Send your cash in the mail, buy drugs, same thing, only less traceable.
1035 2012-02-09 20:46:40 <midnightmagic> savage: It's the other possibilities that are worse.
1036 2012-02-09 20:46:47 <midnightmagic> savage: Things that haven't come online yet..
1037 2012-02-09 20:46:54 <savage> I don't see SR as a terrible place at all
1038 2012-02-09 20:47:07 <midnightmagic> savage: The fact that it uses bitcoin is terrible.
1039 2012-02-09 20:47:25 <savage> I can see how it is for bitcoin...
1040 2012-02-09 20:47:37 <midnightmagic> Yes, apologies: that's how I meant it.
1041 2012-02-09 20:49:05 <savage> But I agree TOR+Bitcoin are very powerful... almost TOO powerful. The sky is literally the limit, and governments can't do a thing. It's unprecedented...
1042 2012-02-09 20:49:09 <savage> But I digress
1043 2012-02-09 20:49:20 <midnightmagic> *Some* things Bitcoin might enable are truly frightening. It's only through mere lack of imagination that those Washington, D.C. cretins haven't seized on us like wolves yet.
1044 2012-02-09 20:49:20 <Diablo-D3> okay, lets say Im the government
1045 2012-02-09 20:49:23 * Diablo-D3 shoots savage 
1046 2012-02-09 20:49:31 <gmaxwell> okay we're off topic for #bitcoin-dev now.
1047 2012-02-09 20:49:33 <Diablo-D3> tor didnt help you there.
1048 2012-02-09 20:49:34 <midnightmagic> That's not true that governments can do nothing.
1049 2012-02-09 20:49:35 b4epoche_ has joined
1050 2012-02-09 20:49:54 <gmaxwell> take the government vs bitcoin debate to #bitcoin. ;0
1051 2012-02-09 20:50:13 <midnightmagic> :P
1052 2012-02-09 20:50:18 <savage> So why is the key space 2**256?
1053 2012-02-09 20:50:25 b4epoche has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1054 2012-02-09 20:50:25 b4epoche_ is now known as b4epoche
1055 2012-02-09 20:50:40 Bwild has quit (Quit: leaving)
1056 2012-02-09 20:50:56 <gmaxwell> savage: well, there are internal bottlenecks (e.g. the width of the hash function's state)
1057 2012-02-09 20:51:35 BlueMatt has joined
1058 2012-02-09 20:51:51 <savage> Yeah so 80 bytes is 640 bits, but some fields are limited
1059 2012-02-09 20:51:56 * midnightmagic will have to remember to steer the devs back on-topic when they veer..
1060 2012-02-09 20:52:18 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: fuck it
1061 2012-02-09 20:52:21 <Diablo-D3> porn is king
1062 2012-02-09 20:52:29 <midnightmagic> lol
1063 2012-02-09 20:53:28 <savage> Version number, difficulty field, timestamp... those are 96 bits total but probably with much less then 2**96 possible values.
1064 2012-02-09 20:53:49 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: my goal is (1) encourage more bitcoin talk in #bitcoin, (2) keep debates which will be more social/political than directly technical away from here.
1065 2012-02-09 20:54:15 <gmaxwell> savage: you control the 256 bit hash root. And you can control at least 100 bytes of data going into that hash.
1066 2012-02-09 20:54:16 smoothie has joined
1067 2012-02-09 20:54:30 splatster has joined
1068 2012-02-09 20:54:31 splatster has quit (Changing host)
1069 2012-02-09 20:54:31 splatster has joined
1070 2012-02-09 20:54:37 <smoothie> savage, just ask it in #bitcoin
1071 2012-02-09 20:54:48 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: #bitcoin is a cesspool.. intelligent discussion is difficult there.
1072 2012-02-09 20:54:57 <Diablo-D3> its /b/.
1073 2012-02-09 20:55:06 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: Yes, we don't fix that by having intelligent discussion everywhere else.
1074 2012-02-09 20:55:12 * Diablo-D3 STARTS BITCOINCHAN
1075 2012-02-09 20:55:17 * Diablo-D3 POSTS GOATPORN!
1076 2012-02-09 20:55:31 <smoothie> lol Diablo-D3, I'm sure that want intelligent...
1077 2012-02-09 20:55:31 <gmaxwell> And I'll gladly kick people who disrupting an active bitcoin conversation with offtopic stuff.
1078 2012-02-09 20:55:38 <Diablo-D3> smoothie: right over your head.
1079 2012-02-09 20:55:45 * savage waves to Diablo-D3 
1080 2012-02-09 20:55:59 * smoothie is thinking something intelligent
1081 2012-02-09 20:56:15 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: I think bitcoin-related discussion, as long as it is civil, should be okay here. As soon as it starts getting heated.. boot. But the problems in #bitcoin are not really solveable without locking it down the way we did #bitcoin-otc.
1082 2012-02-09 20:56:47 <smoothie> isn't this dev?
1083 2012-02-09 20:56:53 <smoothie> not discussion?
1084 2012-02-09 20:57:08 <midnightmagic> check /topic, and -dev histories.
1085 2012-02-09 20:57:19 <midnightmagic> devs talk politics in here all the time.
1086 2012-02-09 20:57:23 <BlueMatt> topc: "Bitcoin Development" " Main support/discussion chan #bitcoin | Commitstream: #bitcoin-commits | Public channe"
1087 2012-02-09 20:57:38 <midnightmagic> " All related discussions are welcome. "
1088 2012-02-09 20:57:48 <smoothie> Main support/discussion chan #bitcoin
1089 2012-02-09 20:57:50 marf_away has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1090 2012-02-09 20:58:01 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: we have, at times, real problems talking about near term pratical technical things of consequence because of speculation about things legal/economic/political without technical impact.
1091 2012-02-09 20:58:04 <midnightmagic> "Main". As in, for plebes and average jack-offs.
1092 2012-02-09 20:58:05 devrandom has joined
1093 2012-02-09 20:58:26 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: If I were convinced that I had to take a flamethrower to #bitcoin I would.
1094 2012-02-09 20:58:44 <smoothie> the ban hammer?
1095 2012-02-09 20:58:52 <savage> I feel like I'm in #bitcoin-irc-policies
1096 2012-02-09 20:59:05 <midnightmagic> Meh, whatever. -dev is where clueful discussion happens. I wouldn't send people back to the pits when there's nothing else happening in -dev.
1097 2012-02-09 20:59:07 <gmaxwell> sorry, we have a bitcoin-dev-meta but midnightmagic isn't in there.
1098 2012-02-09 20:59:24 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: the most active people in here are also in #bitcoin.
1099 2012-02-09 20:59:31 <gmaxwell> (including myself, bluematt, and sipa)
1100 2012-02-09 20:59:39 JRWR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1101 2012-02-09 21:00:47 <BlueMatt> heh, its been a while since virtually every file on https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/tree/master/src had  the same most recent commit
1102 2012-02-09 21:00:48 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: We are interrupted in clue+ discussions there by plebes and regular jack-offs. I don't know about you, but there's only so many times I can explain to someone what a hash is in a day. I don't know how Diablo-D3 does it. :-(
1103 2012-02-09 21:01:03 <Diablo-D3> I dont.
1104 2012-02-09 21:01:07 <Diablo-D3> Im not the nice guy you think I am
1105 2012-02-09 21:01:09 <savage> :)
1106 2012-02-09 21:01:10 * Diablo-D3 eats babies and everything
1107 2012-02-09 21:01:14 <savage> Yeah he shot me :\
1108 2012-02-09 21:01:15 <BlueMatt> you think Diablo-D3 is nice?
1109 2012-02-09 21:01:42 <BlueMatt> hes a java dev for christ sake
1110 2012-02-09 21:01:50 splatster has quit (Quit: brb)
1111 2012-02-09 21:01:55 <Diablo-D3> one java program and everyone thinks Im a java dev
1112 2012-02-09 21:02:02 <BlueMatt> ok, java lover
1113 2012-02-09 21:02:08 <Diablo-D3> 15 years of C damnit! Ive written shit that'd blow your mind!
1114 2012-02-09 21:02:23 splatster has joined
1115 2012-02-09 21:02:27 <savage> I can see how that would... change.. someone.
1116 2012-02-09 21:02:27 <Diablo-D3> java lover? still inaccurate
1117 2012-02-09 21:02:30 <Diablo-D3> I like java as a language
1118 2012-02-09 21:02:32 <BlueMatt> my point was more along the lines that you love and voraciously defend java
1119 2012-02-09 21:02:35 <Diablo-D3> I fucking hate the community
1120 2012-02-09 21:02:43 trulia has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1121 2012-02-09 21:02:47 <Diablo-D3> DM is my first and last Java program
1122 2012-02-09 21:03:13 <BlueMatt> damn
1123 2012-02-09 21:03:31 <Diablo-D3> Ill defend Java against obvious bullshit
1124 2012-02-09 21:03:33 JRWR has joined
1125 2012-02-09 21:03:46 <Diablo-D3> like, people keep repeating the myth that java is slow
1126 2012-02-09 21:04:08 <Diablo-D3> if java was so slow, why can I write heavy math code that is just as fast in java as it is in C
1127 2012-02-09 21:04:25 <Diablo-D3> java is a lot of things, but slow isnt one of them
1128 2012-02-09 21:04:31 <savage> What about the myth that Java windowing libraries suck?
1129 2012-02-09 21:04:40 <BlueMatt> myth?
1130 2012-02-09 21:04:42 <savage> ;)
1131 2012-02-09 21:04:43 <Diablo-D3> savage: ALL ui toolkits suck.
1132 2012-02-09 21:04:51 <BlueMatt> ok, now that is true
1133 2012-02-09 21:04:53 <Diablo-D3> name one that doesnt
1134 2012-02-09 21:04:55 <Diablo-D3> seriously
1135 2012-02-09 21:05:17 <savage> For simple Windows only programs C# does a hell of a job...
1136 2012-02-09 21:05:22 <Diablo-D3> no it doesnt.
1137 2012-02-09 21:05:29 <BlueMatt> who writes windows-only programs?
1138 2012-02-09 21:05:35 <Diablo-D3> and C# is just a variant of Java anyhow
1139 2012-02-09 21:05:39 <BlueMatt> s/who/what decent dev/
1140 2012-02-09 21:05:44 <savage> Agreed Diablo-D3
1141 2012-02-09 21:05:46 <Diablo-D3> and it really sucks you cant run C# on the JVM
1142 2012-02-09 21:05:56 <Diablo-D3> both .net's vm and mono are fucking piles of shit
1143 2012-02-09 21:06:10 <Diablo-D3> and it doesnt help microsoft refuses to stand down with their patent warchest
1144 2012-02-09 21:06:17 <savage> But I wrote some Windows programs in C# and it was much less painful than in Java.
1145 2012-02-09 21:06:17 <Diablo-D3> C# could have actually been decent, Microsoft killed it
1146 2012-02-09 21:06:22 <Diablo-D3> same way Oracle is trying to kill Java
1147 2012-02-09 21:06:33 <Diablo-D3> savage: then you're doing it extra wrong
1148 2012-02-09 21:06:46 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: You're a big squishie at heart. And you might swear a lot and call people faggots, but you're as far as I can tell the oldest #bitcoin*'er to still be explaining stuff in great detail to newbs.
1149 2012-02-09 21:06:54 JRWR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1150 2012-02-09 21:07:02 <midnightmagic> at least.. in the volume you are.
1151 2012-02-09 21:07:02 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: /me shrugs
1152 2012-02-09 21:07:32 <Diablo-D3> savage: java is exceedingly easy to dev in, it may have not always been that way, but it is that way now
1153 2012-02-09 21:07:33 <savage> You can't seriously pick Swing/AWT over C# which makes things actually look decent!
1154 2012-02-09 21:07:43 <gmaxwell> 12:55 < Diablo-D3> 15 years of C damnit! Ive written shit that'd blow your mind!
1155 2012-02-09 21:07:45 <savage> I agree, I love Java for that.
1156 2012-02-09 21:07:49 <gmaxwell> "I've C-een things you people wouldn't believe. Negative arrays offset into the redzone... I watched pointers glitter in the dark near realloced linked lists. All those moments will be lost in time... segments in the stack frame... Time to return"
1157 2012-02-09 21:07:55 <Diablo-D3> no, but I can use eclipse's SWT
1158 2012-02-09 21:08:03 <Diablo-D3> which wraps native toolkits
1159 2012-02-09 21:08:26 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: What IDE do you use, if any/
1160 2012-02-09 21:08:46 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: meh, I tried eclipse for about a year
1161 2012-02-09 21:08:47 paul0 has quit (Quit: paul0)
1162 2012-02-09 21:08:49 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Quitte)
1163 2012-02-09 21:08:50 <Diablo-D3> its just still not as good as vim
1164 2012-02-09 21:08:55 <ageis> <3 vim
1165 2012-02-09 21:09:03 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: lawlz
1166 2012-02-09 21:09:05 <smoothie> vim for programming that?
1167 2012-02-09 21:09:10 <smoothie> lawl
1168 2012-02-09 21:09:22 Rabbit67890 has joined
1169 2012-02-09 21:09:26 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: heh
1170 2012-02-09 21:09:35 <savage> Have you ever used SWT?
1171 2012-02-09 21:09:38 <Diablo-D3> savage: and its not like swing is ugly
1172 2012-02-09 21:09:41 <Diablo-D3> its just non-native
1173 2012-02-09 21:09:44 <Diablo-D3> it has its own unique look
1174 2012-02-09 21:09:50 RedEmerald has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1175 2012-02-09 21:09:56 <BlueMatt> github slow/downish for anyone else
1176 2012-02-09 21:10:06 <Diablo-D3> bluematt: nein
1177 2012-02-09 21:10:11 <BlueMatt> :(
1178 2012-02-09 21:10:24 <smoothie> nein!
1179 2012-02-09 21:10:32 <Diablo-D3> savage: Ive used SWT
1180 2012-02-09 21:10:35 <BlueMatt> heh, chrome restart and it works
1181 2012-02-09 21:10:37 <BlueMatt> wtf chrome?
1182 2012-02-09 21:10:39 <Diablo-D3> I dont care for how you have to package it though
1183 2012-02-09 21:11:01 <Diablo-D3> you cant ship the binary blobs for each of the platforms in the same zip
1184 2012-02-09 21:11:07 <savage> I'm interested to see how it would hold up against C#, esp on different windows versions...
1185 2012-02-09 21:11:13 <Diablo-D3> (which is why eclipse, a 100% java program, has OS specific zips)
1186 2012-02-09 21:11:24 <Diablo-D3> savage: it works on windowses c# doesnt
1187 2012-02-09 21:12:13 <savage> Of all the major languages I like C++ the least
1188 2012-02-09 21:12:22 RedEmerald has joined
1189 2012-02-09 21:12:31 <Diablo-D3> C++ is at the top of my shitlist
1190 2012-02-09 21:12:40 <Diablo-D3> then C#, then crap like ruby and python
1191 2012-02-09 21:12:50 <savage> C++ templates make me sick to my stomach
1192 2012-02-09 21:13:01 <midnightmagic> I like C++, but I would like it more if I understood the guts of it as well as I do C.
1193 2012-02-09 21:13:14 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: thats largely the problem
1194 2012-02-09 21:13:33 <savage> I'm not a huge python fan but it has its purposes
1195 2012-02-09 21:13:43 <midnightmagic> Sometimes there are interactions between weird language constructs that.. make no sense to me whatsoever, and require so much testing to get to the bottom of, that by the end of it, my own tests confuse me.
1196 2012-02-09 21:13:43 <Diablo-D3> C++ is the only language that has a spec interpretation committee
1197 2012-02-09 21:13:56 <midnightmagic> awesome, really?
1198 2012-02-09 21:13:57 * ageis still in love with perl
1199 2012-02-09 21:13:59 <Diablo-D3> infact, there is no such thing as a fully compliant c++ compiler
1200 2012-02-09 21:14:01 <Diablo-D3> it just doesnt exist
1201 2012-02-09 21:14:05 <savage> Very useful in penetration testing and 'hacking', python
1202 2012-02-09 21:14:08 <midnightmagic> that's..  scary.
1203 2012-02-09 21:14:15 <Diablo-D3> even gcc, in its eternal shitastic glory, cant handle it all
1204 2012-02-09 21:14:41 <Diablo-D3> it should be impossible to write shit that can cause your compiler to output legitimately interpreted code and still be wrong.
1205 2012-02-09 21:14:49 <Diablo-D3> C++ is the only language where this can happen regularly
1206 2012-02-09 21:14:59 <midnightmagic> g++ was late to the c++ "standard" compiler game anyway..
1207 2012-02-09 21:15:04 <savage> Try to write a program in C or Java that will send custom crafted network packets... it won't be pretty.
1208 2012-02-09 21:15:16 <Diablo-D3> savage: you can do it in C easily
1209 2012-02-09 21:15:17 <savage> In Python it is a couple of easy lines
1210 2012-02-09 21:15:20 <Diablo-D3> you just need to be root
1211 2012-02-09 21:15:24 <gmaxwell> savage: it's quite straight forward in C.
1212 2012-02-09 21:15:56 <savage> I tried to do some network stuff in C once, but it was not very pleasant
1213 2012-02-09 21:15:57 <midnightmagic> C custom packets is trivial.
1214 2012-02-09 21:16:10 <Diablo-D3> savage: you just suck at C
1215 2012-02-09 21:16:18 <smoothie> what about in brainfuck? (or whatever it was called)
1216 2012-02-09 21:16:25 <midnightmagic> savage: sockets programming in C is a lot easier if you have the Stevenson books handy..
1217 2012-02-09 21:16:43 <savage> That is also true Diablo-D3
1218 2012-02-09 21:17:06 <savage> But I spent the same amount of effort with python and scapy, and I was able to do anything I could imagine easily
1219 2012-02-09 21:17:12 <Diablo-D3> sockets programming in C is a lot easier if you understand the damned header
1220 2012-02-09 21:17:31 <savage> So I'm sure I could do it in ASM too, but I just suck at ASM :(
1221 2012-02-09 21:17:43 <Diablo-D3> you cant usefully do it in asm
1222 2012-02-09 21:17:54 <smoothie> what about other languages?
1223 2012-02-09 21:17:55 <midnightmagic> savage: Pay no attention to his insults. He's like the Panda from Kung-Fu Panda. If you hug him he goes "aw shucks" and everything. :)
1224 2012-02-09 21:18:03 <pusle> F#
1225 2012-02-09 21:18:13 <savage> No offense taken
1226 2012-02-09 21:18:13 <Diablo-D3> you'll have to do standard system calls, which is largely a pita in assembly
1227 2012-02-09 21:18:24 <Diablo-D3> btw, why the fuck did microsoft name f# _f_#?
1228 2012-02-09 21:18:47 <savage> My point is just that you can say Python is shit, but there is a reason it is the #1 network security language
1229 2012-02-09 21:18:53 <Diablo-D3> its objective caml.
1230 2012-02-09 21:19:17 <Diablo-D3> for languages that start with f, a language whos name does not contain f does not jump to the top of the list
1231 2012-02-09 21:19:20 <smoothie> lol Obj C
1232 2012-02-09 21:19:28 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1233 2012-02-09 21:19:30 <Diablo-D3> smoothie: no
1234 2012-02-09 21:19:36 <Diablo-D3> objc is objective c
1235 2012-02-09 21:19:41 <Diablo-D3> ocaml is ocaml
1236 2012-02-09 21:20:02 <midnightmagic> ocaml rules, esp. now their licensing terms are fixed.
1237 2012-02-09 21:20:37 <Diablo-D3> ocaml is an impure functional language
1238 2012-02-09 21:20:45 <Diablo-D3> its off in the lisp/haskell side of the bizzaroverse
1239 2012-02-09 21:20:50 barmstrong has joined
1240 2012-02-09 21:20:57 <gmaxwell> The fftw codelet generator stuff is all ocaml .. kinda mindblowing code.
1241 2012-02-09 21:21:30 <savage> I did a project once where we had to optimize TeX
1242 2012-02-09 21:21:32 <gmaxwell> Complicated special purpose searches over algebraic simplifications of an input.. in like three lines of code.
1243 2012-02-09 21:21:35 <savage> talk about mindblowing code...
1244 2012-02-09 21:21:44 <mod6> heh
1245 2012-02-09 21:21:45 <midnightmagic> OCaml makes my heart soar like an eagle..
1246 2012-02-09 21:21:51 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: jesus fuck
1247 2012-02-09 21:21:51 <savage> (The project failed)
1248 2012-02-09 21:22:11 <Diablo-D3> >optimize TeX
1249 2012-02-09 21:22:12 <Diablo-D3> >Tex
1250 2012-02-09 21:22:31 <Diablo-D3> >optimize code _written by donald motherfucking knuth_
1251 2012-02-09 21:22:36 <Diablo-D3> damn fucking straight it failed
1252 2012-02-09 21:22:36 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: an eagle... piloting a blimp?
1253 2012-02-09 21:23:06 <savage> It was a retarded proposition to start with... we did get the points by writing a report about WHY it failed
1254 2012-02-09 21:23:36 <Diablo-D3> savage: yeah see
1255 2012-02-09 21:23:42 <smoothie> like an eagle, piloting a blimp.
1256 2012-02-09 21:23:48 <Diablo-D3> in programming, its not the journey that matters
1257 2012-02-09 21:23:55 <savage> I had no idea at the time... I was a Donald Knuth virgin
1258 2012-02-09 21:24:03 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: TeX is written in some crazy language called WEB which is like a crazy version of pascal... which is machine translated into C.
1259 2012-02-09 21:24:17 <Diablo-D3> its understanding why your family died of dysentery while fording the river that mattered
1260 2012-02-09 21:24:44 <savage> Now I have an open-source beard and I visit bitcoin IRC channels
1261 2012-02-09 21:24:49 <savage> Oh how things have changed...
1262 2012-02-09 21:25:18 <Diablo-D3> unix beard, damnit, its called a unix beard
1263 2012-02-09 21:25:22 * Diablo-D3 strokes his unix beard
1264 2012-02-09 21:26:13 <mod6> :D
1265 2012-02-09 21:26:31 <savage> I heard a rumor today about TOR and shipping companies.
1266 2012-02-09 21:26:57 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KEueJnsu80
1267 2012-02-09 21:27:10 <savage> The rumor was that using TOR to access the track-and-trace page of a package will increase the risk of it being inspected/ceased
1268 2012-02-09 21:27:21 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: FUCK YEAH
1269 2012-02-09 21:27:30 <Diablo-D3> savage: OH REALLY
1270 2012-02-09 21:27:34 <savage> Pretty cool rumor, I wonder if its true
1271 2012-02-09 21:27:42 <Diablo-D3> I HOPE ITS TRUE
1272 2012-02-09 21:27:50 <Diablo-D3> TIME TO DDOS THE UPS WEBSITE!
1273 2012-02-09 21:28:08 <Diablo-D3> Im in ur tracking site, randomly generating viable tracking numbers
1274 2012-02-09 21:28:10 dr_win has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1275 2012-02-09 21:28:16 <savage> Haha :p
1276 2012-02-09 21:28:41 <savage> It is not entirely unplausible
1277 2012-02-09 21:28:54 m3rde has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1278 2012-02-09 21:29:31 <savage> and generating viable tracking numbers would probably be infeasible
1279 2012-02-09 21:29:36 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: thats the old trailer
1280 2012-02-09 21:29:44 <Diablo-D3> savage: nope, totally feasable
1281 2012-02-09 21:29:50 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1282 2012-02-09 21:29:57 <Diablo-D3> they start with a semi-known string and progress sequentually
1283 2012-02-09 21:30:09 <Diablo-D3> as far as I can tell, they do not contain any hashed elements of WHAT is is tracking
1284 2012-02-09 21:30:21 sacarlson has joined
1285 2012-02-09 21:30:41 <savage> That would be interesting to figure out...
1286 2012-02-09 21:30:54 iocor has joined
1287 2012-02-09 21:31:11 <savage> It would involve sending a lot of packages from a lot of places to a lot of places
1288 2012-02-09 21:31:18 <savage> RLDDOS!
1289 2012-02-09 21:31:49 Bwild has joined
1290 2012-02-09 21:32:57 <Diablo-D3> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py_IndUbcxc
1291 2012-02-09 21:33:09 <iz> savage: http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/21224/Calculating-the-UPS-Tracking-Number-Check-Digit
1292 2012-02-09 21:33:44 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
1293 2012-02-09 21:33:56 <Diablo-D3> iz: GLORIOUS
1294 2012-02-09 21:34:18 BTC_Bear is now known as BTC_Bear|hbrntng
1295 2012-02-09 21:34:29 merde has joined
1296 2012-02-09 21:34:30 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1297 2012-02-09 21:34:46 <savage> hahaha that's class
1298 2012-02-09 21:34:59 <savage> This movie... seriously
1299 2012-02-09 21:35:10 <Diablo-D3> Ive been waiting YEARS for thi
1300 2012-02-09 21:35:11 <Diablo-D3> *this
1301 2012-02-09 21:35:20 sacarlson has joined
1302 2012-02-09 21:35:22 <savage> I suppose there is only a finite amount of different movies you can make before you enter the realm of ridiculous
1303 2012-02-09 21:35:32 <savage> I'm afraid we've reached that point...
1304 2012-02-09 21:35:34 agricocb has joined
1305 2012-02-09 21:37:33 <savage> Same category: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EjQZaLO9ao
1306 2012-02-09 21:40:05 erle- has joined
1307 2012-02-09 21:40:46 bob12321_ has joined
1308 2012-02-09 21:42:25 bob12321 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1309 2012-02-09 21:43:05 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1310 2012-02-09 21:45:02 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: :)  http://www.ironsky.net/site/press/videos/
1311 2012-02-09 21:46:01 <Diablo-D3> >motion poster
1312 2012-02-09 21:46:02 <Diablo-D3> wat
1313 2012-02-09 21:46:26 mps has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1314 2012-02-09 21:51:30 onelineproof has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1315 2012-02-09 21:51:36 onelineproof has joined
1316 2012-02-09 21:52:14 onelineproof has quit (Client Quit)
1317 2012-02-09 21:52:35 olp has joined
1318 2012-02-09 21:53:31 dr_win has joined
1319 2012-02-09 21:53:56 pusle has quit ()
1320 2012-02-09 21:55:33 <midnightmagic> http://www.wreckamovie.com/tasks/show/2431  you can record a voice and get it into the movie
1321 2012-02-09 21:55:40 dr_win has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1322 2012-02-09 21:56:36 barmstrong has joined
1323 2012-02-09 21:57:13 erle- has quit (Quit: erle-)
1324 2012-02-09 22:02:55 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1325 2012-02-09 22:03:34 NxTitle has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1326 2012-02-09 22:03:53 NxTitle has joined
1327 2012-02-09 22:04:31 NxTitle is now known as Guest42753
1328 2012-02-09 22:07:37 barmstrong has joined
1329 2012-02-09 22:09:32 danbri has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1330 2012-02-09 22:11:06 Clipse has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1331 2012-02-09 22:18:40 Guest42753 has quit (Quit: leaving)
1332 2012-02-09 22:21:43 h4ckm3th32nd has joined
1333 2012-02-09 22:26:50 Rabbit67890 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1334 2012-02-09 22:29:35 danbri has joined
1335 2012-02-09 22:41:31 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1336 2012-02-09 22:41:55 eoss has joined
1337 2012-02-09 22:41:55 eoss has quit (Changing host)
1338 2012-02-09 22:41:55 eoss has joined
1339 2012-02-09 22:42:32 sacarlson has joined
1340 2012-02-09 22:46:54 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1341 2012-02-09 22:47:15 malaimo_ has joined
1342 2012-02-09 22:48:27 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1343 2012-02-09 22:49:54 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1344 2012-02-09 22:55:43 mps has joined
1345 2012-02-09 23:05:43 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
1346 2012-02-09 23:06:11 agricocb has joined
1347 2012-02-09 23:07:01 Joric has joined
1348 2012-02-09 23:11:19 phantomfake has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1349 2012-02-09 23:12:08 btc_novice has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1350 2012-02-09 23:12:36 dr_win has joined
1351 2012-02-09 23:15:02 btc_novice has joined
1352 2012-02-09 23:16:24 TD has joined
1353 2012-02-09 23:18:31 Raccoon has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1354 2012-02-09 23:21:02 T_X has joined
1355 2012-02-09 23:21:03 T_X has quit (Changing host)
1356 2012-02-09 23:21:03 T_X has joined
1357 2012-02-09 23:23:11 h4ckm3th33rd has joined
1358 2012-02-09 23:23:38 iocor has joined
1359 2012-02-09 23:23:52 btc_novice has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1360 2012-02-09 23:24:52 btc_novice has joined
1361 2012-02-09 23:25:06 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1362 2012-02-09 23:25:44 btc_novice has quit (Client Quit)
1363 2012-02-09 23:26:07 h4ckm3th32nd has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1364 2012-02-09 23:29:07 h4ckm3th33rd has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1365 2012-02-09 23:30:48 Turingi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1366 2012-02-09 23:30:58 Joric has joined
1367 2012-02-09 23:30:58 Joric has quit (Changing host)
1368 2012-02-09 23:30:58 Joric has joined
1369 2012-02-09 23:31:13 phantomfake has joined
1370 2012-02-09 23:32:13 <sipa> hmm, using compressed pubkeys, and moving back to an older version of the client may cause problems
1371 2012-02-09 23:32:39 rreshow has joined
1372 2012-02-09 23:35:12 <midnightmagic> sipa: What kind of problems?
1373 2012-02-09 23:36:45 <BlueMatt> great caption of a laptop sitting on a desk (from a compsci book): "A desktop computer"
1374 2012-02-09 23:37:15 Lexa has joined
1375 2012-02-09 23:38:20 <sipa> midnightmagic: it will not recognize the corresponding addresses as your own, so i guess the ledger view will miss things
1376 2012-02-09 23:38:27 <sipa> it won't create invalid transactions
1377 2012-02-09 23:39:58 <sipa> but change may go to addresses corresponding to the non-compressed pubkey
1378 2012-02-09 23:40:22 <sipa> which again won't be recognized by newer clients
1379 2012-02-09 23:42:19 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1380 2012-02-09 23:42:29 <Joric> wolfram alpha just rolled out a pro version, free trial for 14 days
1381 2012-02-09 23:43:07 <Joric> image/data analysis etc
1382 2012-02-09 23:43:09 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not too sure.)
1383 2012-02-09 23:47:07 dr_win has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1384 2012-02-09 23:50:31 dr_win has joined
1385 2012-02-09 23:51:48 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1386 2012-02-09 23:55:00 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1387 2012-02-09 23:55:36 bob12321_ is now known as bob12321
1388 2012-02-09 23:56:54 <sipa> BlueMatt: haha
1389 2012-02-09 23:57:39 <BlueMatt> that wasnt delayed or anything
1390 2012-02-09 23:58:20 Cablesaurus has joined
1391 2012-02-09 23:58:41 <sipa> not at all
1392 2012-02-09 23:59:12 <sipa> BlueMatt: when was minversion introduced in the wallet format?
1393 2012-02-09 23:59:46 <BlueMatt> dont remember