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  37 2012-02-13 01:41:50 <gmaxwell> can someone who uses the gui check to see if pressing "up" in the fee dialog still gets you to 1btc/1000 bytes?
  38 2012-02-13 01:42:53 <gmaxwell> also, can you see what happens if anything bad happens if you use ',' instead of a dot in the field? like 0,0005 ? does that result in 5btc paytx fee?
  39 2012-02-13 01:43:04 <BlueMatt> 2nd one: nothing bad should
  40 2012-02-13 01:43:23 <BlueMatt> the processing of numbers in guiutil fails on commas last I checked
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  42 2012-02-13 01:45:25 <BlueMatt> can someone merge https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/commit/490bef8bff62bebf5236ae271c2ac3fb4e849bbb the build warnings are really damn annoying
  43 2012-02-13 01:49:16 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yea, and it goes above 1 btc
  44 2012-02-13 01:49:41 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: doesnt let you type a comma, replaces it with a period
  45 2012-02-13 01:50:43 <gmaxwell> woot on the comma.. boo on the 1btc increments.
  46 2012-02-13 01:51:26 <BlueMatt> what, I shouldnt be allowed to put a 20 btc fee per kb if I want?
  47 2012-02-13 01:51:40 <gmaxwell> You should be allowed to, it shouldn't encourage it though.
  48 2012-02-13 01:51:57 <BlueMatt> it doesnt, it goes up by 0.001 increments
  49 2012-02-13 01:52:05 <gmaxwell> oh. good. I misunderstood you.
  50 2012-02-13 01:52:16 <gmaxwell> somenone had previously reported it going up by 1btc increments.
  51 2012-02-13 01:52:22 <BlueMatt> yea, there was a commit for that
  52 2012-02-13 01:52:58 <gmaxwell> Okay, I missed that commit.
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  57 2012-02-13 02:10:22 <luke-jr> I think I backported that one to stable
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  59 2012-02-13 02:13:55 <gmaxwell> Anyone know what the exact effect of the bug sipa fixed with wallet encryption an compressed public keys was?
  60 2012-02-13 02:15:16 <da2ce7> BlueMatt: maybe it should just compain an refuse to have a fee 1btc or larger...
  61 2012-02-13 02:15:50 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: it looked like it wasn't copying the "is compressed" flag
  62 2012-02-13 02:16:09 <luke-jr> but I didn't look into it in detail, as I didn't have to backport it
  63 2012-02-13 02:16:19 <BlueMatt> da2ce7: I disagree, but...meh
  64 2012-02-13 02:16:33 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: nah, someone may actually want to dothat.
  65 2012-02-13 02:16:48 <gmaxwell> and if you're sending 1000 BTC a 1btc isn't really a big deal
  66 2012-02-13 02:16:55 <luke-jr> one of my pullreqs has a 'maximum automatic fee' for JSON-RPC :P
  67 2012-02-13 02:16:57 <gmaxwell> er a 1btc fee.
  68 2012-02-13 02:18:04 <gmaxwell> The maximum fee it can come up with is max(100*your specified fee,100*0.0005).
  69 2012-02-13 02:18:28 <gmaxwell> The coin selection code is a pita. It's impossible to change because its so damn interwoven.
  70 2012-02-13 02:18:55 <BlueMatt> so fix it ;)
  71 2012-02-13 02:19:09 <da2ce7> since we have all the data there already...why not set it to avg fee/kb for the last 1000 blocks or somthing...
  72 2012-02-13 02:19:56 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: haha. Then I, EvilMiner, mine a bunch of my own <1k transactions with 1000 btc fees.
  73 2012-02-13 02:20:28 <gmaxwell> It's silly, there isn't today any major reason to dork around with that knob except to be generous.
  74 2012-02-13 02:20:29 <da2ce7> gmaxwell: lol
  75 2012-02-13 02:21:06 <gmaxwell> Or to get slightly faster processing when you gotta pay _now_, but in that case, we really probably don't want a per KB knob, we just want a fee value.
  76 2012-02-13 02:21:48 <gmaxwell> Anyone play around with that setmininput thing litecoin has?
  77 2012-02-13 02:23:12 <da2ce7> gmaxwell: if we were really clever we could have a dialog that shows 'alocate a fee so that based on historical outstanding transactions my tx will confirm on average in x blocks (avg x*10min)"
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  79 2012-02-13 02:23:39 <doublec> gmaxwell: namecoin has it too
  80 2012-02-13 02:23:40 <da2ce7> and users pick how quickly they want the tx to confirm on avg.
  81 2012-02-13 02:24:03 <doublec> gmaxwell: people used it to make spammed wallets usable
  82 2012-02-13 02:24:11 <doublec> other than that, not much feedback on it
  83 2012-02-13 02:24:47 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: That doesn't work so well because of the hidden factors: Miners mine their own txn for free (esp pools), Miners may insert stupid txn that distort your figures, Miners may process txn for free due to invisible external arrangements (luke/mtgox)
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  85 2012-02-13 02:25:32 <gmaxwell> doublec: any idea of where the spammed wallets were becoming unusable? Was it because of txn failing due to hitting the maximum size or just because of the first pass through subset-sum taking a long time?
  86 2012-02-13 02:26:04 <doublec> gmaxwell: hitting size afaik
  87 2012-02-13 02:26:09 <gmaxwell> If its the first, I know how to do automatic setmininput, e.g. no configure knob.
  88 2012-02-13 02:26:13 <gmaxwell> sweet.
  89 2012-02-13 02:27:34 <gmaxwell> The idea would be start with mininput of 0. If you hit the maximum size, set the mininput to be greater than the smallest input you've selected, try again. Abort if you manage to get mininput up to the size of your output and you're still over the size limit.
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  91 2012-02-13 02:28:03 <da2ce7> I think that https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/763  should maybe be counted as somewhat high priorty... it has been a issue for me b4.
  92 2012-02-13 02:28:11 <da2ce7> *why I opened it.
  93 2012-02-13 02:28:39 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: isn't it pretty obvious that it's not working?
  94 2012-02-13 02:29:06 <da2ce7> gmaxwell: no... becasue it dosn't complain that you cannot conenct to the proxy... it just silenty not works.
  95 2012-02-13 02:29:16 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: but it shows no connections, right?
  96 2012-02-13 02:29:17 <da2ce7> it could be that you have the wrong port. or anything.
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  98 2012-02-13 02:29:39 <da2ce7> or not connected to the interent... or the proxy isn't working..
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 100 2012-02-13 02:30:26 <da2ce7> sure... but you don't know if the issue is with your proxy settings... or the fact that the proxy cannot connect to the internt.
 101 2012-02-13 02:31:02 <gmaxwell> ah.
 102 2012-02-13 02:31:06 <gmaxwell> Patches accepted!
 103 2012-02-13 02:31:35 <gmaxwell> With that point, especially considering that tor can be a bit lossy, I can see the value.
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 110 2012-02-13 02:47:37 <midnightmagic> da2ce7: if a proxy is configured, does bitcoind correct itself when you stop giving it a proxy config? (so it stops using the proxy?) or does it still remember the old proxy and try to use it regardless?
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 112 2012-02-13 03:13:28 <da2ce7> midnightmagic: it trys to conenct to the proxy even if it nolonger exzists.
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 115 2012-02-13 03:16:52 <gmaxwell> thats not what midnightmagic was asking.
 116 2012-02-13 03:17:06 <gmaxwell> He's asking if it keeps trying to use it when there is no proxy configured.
 117 2012-02-13 03:18:25 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: I think you could kinda get that behavior with any setting if you use the gui: The gui stores settings in the wallet. They become defaults. The commandline overrides them. If you don't use the gui anymore its not obvious where the settings are coming from.
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 138 2012-02-13 03:55:56 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: please fix your mail server
 139 2012-02-13 03:56:11 <phantomcircuit> working on it right now
 140 2012-02-13 03:56:14 <phantomcircuit> hdd failed
 141 2012-02-13 03:56:18 <phantomcircuit> it's a mess
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 144 2012-02-13 03:56:49 <gmaxwell> damnit. qmake crap doesn't correctly cope with not having the upnp libraries.
 145 2012-02-13 03:58:28 <midnightmagic> ah, quake. what a great game..
 146 2012-02-13 03:59:24 <phantomcircuit> lold
 147 2012-02-13 04:07:36 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: USE_UPNP=-
 148 2012-02-13 04:09:50 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: yea, figured that out dumb thing says it detects it but fails to cope.
 149 2012-02-13 04:10:01 <gmaxwell> also doesn't appear to support BOOST_LIB_SUFFIX
 150 2012-02-13 04:10:13 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: works on Gentoo :P
 151 2012-02-13 04:10:14 <luke-jr> I think
 152 2012-02-13 04:10:16 <luke-jr> <.<
 153 2012-02-13 04:11:39 <gmaxwell> it also needs -lrt on Fedora 16 apparently
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 160 2012-02-13 04:31:58 <olp> ya and before you use make for bitcoin-qt you need to set the SUBLIBS variable if you wanna use custom libs.
 161 2012-02-13 04:33:00 <luke-jr> uh, no? O.o
 162 2012-02-13 04:33:44 <olp> well thats what i had to do for 0.5.1 and 0.5.2
 163 2012-02-13 04:34:20 <olp> otherwise it would put /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu in front
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 165 2012-02-13 04:34:40 <luke-jr> …
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 167 2012-02-13 04:38:34 <olp> the Makefile generated by qmake has: LIBS          = $(SUBLIBS)  -L/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu -lminiupnpc -lssl ....etc
 168 2012-02-13 04:38:56 <olp> but this is on ubuntu
 169 2012-02-13 04:38:58 <luke-jr> oh
 170 2012-02-13 04:39:03 <luke-jr> well, you have to pass the options to qmake
 171 2012-02-13 04:39:04 <luke-jr> not make
 172 2012-02-13 04:39:18 <olp> ya maybe theres other ways
 173 2012-02-13 04:44:36 <olp> see if I set OPENSSL_LIB_PATH in the qmake config file, the Makefile gives me this:
 174 2012-02-13 04:44:38 <olp> LIBS          = $(SUBLIBS)  -L/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu -lminiupnpc -L/opt/piratepack/ver-1.4-4_1/share/ssl_build/lib -lssl -lcrypto
 175 2012-02-13 04:44:55 <olp> (the piratepack is my own package)
 176 2012-02-13 04:51:05 <luke-jr> qmake has a config file?
 177 2012-02-13 04:51:27 <olp> bitcoin-qt.pro
 178 2012-02-13 04:52:04 <luke-jr> that's not a config file -.-
 179 2012-02-13 04:52:10 <luke-jr> qmake option=foo
 180 2012-02-13 04:52:30 <gmaxwell> Hm. -checkblocks only took 96 seconds on a system with a spinning disk with cold caches. I think we should put that in its own thread and run it in the background at every startup.
 181 2012-02-13 04:52:53 <gmaxwell> It would solve the issues with corrupted blockchains that have cropped up here and there and reduce the riskyness of using blockchain dumps.
 182 2012-02-13 04:53:12 <olp> when your run qmake to compile bitcoin-qt, it reads that file Im assuming
 183 2012-02-13 04:53:43 <gmaxwell> (right now the blockchain dumps are extremely risky if miners use them— should a bit error creep in, the network will split based on who has a copy of that error)
 184 2012-02-13 05:00:14 <k9quaint> gmaxwell: remember that guy who wanted to use a CDN to distribute blockchain dump images?
 185 2012-02-13 05:05:34 <gmaxwell> k9quaint: What name should I remember him under? FROTUSCI? trigliu? jiles-? nazguls? panujan? wistiu?  Or any of dozens of other ones?
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 230 2012-02-13 06:53:57 <finway> Hello, i just submitted an issue.
 231 2012-02-13 06:54:04 <finway> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/830
 232 2012-02-13 06:54:33 <gmaxwell> finway: is your cpu usage high?
 233 2012-02-13 06:55:07 <finway> yes, 50%
 234 2012-02-13 06:55:13 <finway> 15%
 235 2012-02-13 06:55:21 <finway> 11%
 236 2012-02-13 06:55:22 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: finway-china opened issue 830 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/830>
 237 2012-02-13 06:56:16 <finway> now it's not
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 239 2012-02-13 06:58:59 <finway> 0%, but still stuck
 240 2012-02-13 06:59:31 <gmaxwell> anything more appear in the debug log?
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 243 2012-02-13 07:01:26 <finway> updated!
 244 2012-02-13 07:01:38 <finway> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/830
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 248 2012-02-13 07:01:59 <gmaxwell> is it still stuck?
 249 2012-02-13 07:02:09 <finway> yeah, still stuck
 250 2012-02-13 07:02:21 <finway> updated here :   https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/830
 251 2012-02-13 07:04:44 <finway> ;;seen roconnor
 252 2012-02-13 07:04:44 <gribble> roconnor was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 week, 0 days, 16 hours, 12 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: <roconnor> sipa, gmaxwell: I think I know how to turn 1000 confirmation coins back into 1 confirmation coins using duplicate transactions.
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 386 2012-02-13 11:36:57 <sipa> gmaxwell: the bug i fixed: encrypting a wallet with compressed keys in it would cause one to get a 'wallet corrupted' error after restarting
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 397 2012-02-13 12:03:05 <sje> sory if this is an old one....why are mined transactions not shown in the 'unconfirmed' balance when they are unconfirmed?
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 404 2012-02-13 12:35:20 <sje> how do i verify a signed message?
 405 2012-02-13 12:36:09 <Dumb-_> does p2pool charge a fee?
 406 2012-02-13 12:36:49 <sje> Dumb-_: p2pool gives a 'finders fee' of 0.25 btc to the person that finds the block
 407 2012-02-13 12:37:19 <Dumb-_> what stops that person stealing the entire block?
 408 2012-02-13 12:37:19 <sje> subtracted from all other miners proportional to their shares i believe
 409 2012-02-13 12:37:39 <sje> the miners work on signing a block that has payouts to everyone
 410 2012-02-13 12:37:52 <sje> other miners won't help you on a block that only goes to you :)
 411 2012-02-13 12:38:38 <cjd> sje: perhaps a mined transaction shows up as unconfirmed for 100 blocks because it is not spendable for that amount of time?
 412 2012-02-13 12:38:38 SuprTiggr has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 413 2012-02-13 12:38:52 <cjd> I don't really know myself but it sounds plausible
 414 2012-02-13 12:38:56 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 415 2012-02-13 12:39:30 <sje> cjd - yeah no worries, but i'm wondering why it doesn't show in the 'unconfirmed balance' in the wallet section of the overview page
 416 2012-02-13 12:39:47 SuprTiggr has joined
 417 2012-02-13 12:44:08 <Graet> until the block matures and the coins are "generated" here is no balance to be unconfirmed :)
 418 2012-02-13 12:45:55 <sje> Great: ty, i knew it would be something like that... :( now I need to add an 'immature mined' field to my client
 419 2012-02-13 12:46:06 <Graet> :)
 420 2012-02-13 12:46:08 <sje> and understand the rest of the bloody source code
 421 2012-02-13 12:46:15 <Graet> heh gl man :)
 422 2012-02-13 12:46:27 * Graet steps back into the shadows about now :P
 423 2012-02-13 12:49:18 paul0 has joined
 424 2012-02-13 12:49:40 <sje> ok i got a good code question: wallet.cpp line 779 (latest github) - why is the conditional inverted, so
 425 2012-02-13 12:49:42 <sje> if (!pcoin->IsFinal() || !pcoin->IsConfirmed())
 426 2012-02-13 12:49:42 <sje>                 continue;
 427 2012-02-13 12:49:48 <sje> why do that?!?
 428 2012-02-13 12:50:49 <sje> (ha I guess  that means I can't be satoshi huh? :P )
 429 2012-02-13 12:51:14 <sje> srsly, is there a reason for that?
 430 2012-02-13 12:51:25 <cjd> the only difference between you and satoshi is a "did I"
 431 2012-02-13 12:52:52 <sje> ha
 432 2012-02-13 12:53:07 <sje> i wonder if there is some tricky magic hacker reason
 433 2012-02-13 12:53:19 <sje> 'cause it looks dumb :)
 434 2012-02-13 12:53:30 <Dumb-_> hey!
 435 2012-02-13 12:55:45 splatster has quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
 436 2012-02-13 12:56:30 <sje> sry ;)
 437 2012-02-13 12:59:06 <edcba> what do you mean inverted ?
 438 2012-02-13 12:59:56 <edcba> also if there is some trick it's a bad trick
 439 2012-02-13 13:01:06 <sje> i mean why say 'if !a or !b continue; do x'
 440 2012-02-13 13:01:16 <sje> instead of the simpler 'if a and b do x'
 441 2012-02-13 13:01:35 <sje> edcba
 442 2012-02-13 13:02:15 Joric has joined
 443 2012-02-13 13:06:30 <Dumb-_> edcba?
 444 2012-02-13 13:07:52 <edcba> ok
 445 2012-02-13 13:08:11 <edcba> because doing if (a & b) requires a new level of indentation i guess :)
 446 2012-02-13 13:09:44 <Joric> speaking of indentation, i hate tabs so much
 447 2012-02-13 13:11:18 <Dumb-_> yeh someone should invent a language without indentation
 448 2012-02-13 13:11:24 <Joric> it's all because of python, i guess
 449 2012-02-13 13:11:49 iocor has joined
 450 2012-02-13 13:11:52 <Joric> it's almost unbearable since i turned on 'display whitespace characters'
 451 2012-02-13 13:12:06 tower has quit (Quit: | ReactOS - The FOSS alternative to MS Windows! | http://www.reactos.org/ | join #ReactOS |)
 452 2012-02-13 13:12:33 <Joric> now i'm finding tabs everywhere and replacing them with 4 spaces
 453 2012-02-13 13:12:45 <Dumb-_> why 4?
 454 2012-02-13 13:13:22 <Joric> PEP8, and it looks good
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 460 2012-02-13 13:14:45 <sje> yes, i LOVE tabs
 461 2012-02-13 13:14:49 * sje ducks
 462 2012-02-13 13:15:21 <sje> edcba - the continue is indented
 463 2012-02-13 13:16:02 <edcba> no i mean
 464 2012-02-13 13:16:12 <edcba> if (!a || !b) continue;
 465 2012-02-13 13:16:14 <edcba> bla();
 466 2012-02-13 13:16:15 <edcba> foo();
 467 2012-02-13 13:16:25 <edcba> the other way is
 468 2012-02-13 13:16:31 <edcba> if (a & b) {
 469 2012-02-13 13:16:34 <edcba>   bla();
 470 2012-02-13 13:16:36 <edcba>   foo();
 471 2012-02-13 13:16:37 <edcba> }
 472 2012-02-13 13:16:41 <sje> yep gotcha
 473 2012-02-13 13:17:08 <sje> i think it kinda deserves the indent :)
 474 2012-02-13 13:17:26 <sje> conditional blocks are normally indented, after all
 475 2012-02-13 13:18:26 <upb> i like to return early too
 476 2012-02-13 13:18:37 <edcba> if you don't use the continue thing you end up having a cascade of if
 477 2012-02-13 13:19:12 <sje> hm...yeah ok that's a point
 478 2012-02-13 13:20:21 <Joric> threre's even a policy demanding { } for every conditional block
 479 2012-02-13 13:20:41 <Joric> in java, i guess
 480 2012-02-13 13:20:44 <Dumb-_> what does continue do in that context?
 481 2012-02-13 13:20:51 <edcba> usually i do that if i don't put it in one line
 482 2012-02-13 13:21:04 <edcba> continue jumps to }
 483 2012-02-13 13:21:22 <Dumb-_> i thought that was just for loops?
 484 2012-02-13 13:22:34 <upb> do {
 485 2012-02-13 13:22:35 <upb> .....
 486 2012-02-13 13:22:42 <upb> } while (0);
 487 2012-02-13 13:22:44 <upb> megahack
 488 2012-02-13 13:23:00 <Dumb-_> doesnt that cause indentation anyway
 489 2012-02-13 13:23:22 <upb> just one level :)
 490 2012-02-13 13:23:28 <edcba> hmm
 491 2012-02-13 13:23:31 * edcba checks the code
 492 2012-02-13 13:23:53 <upb> if you have n conditions and you can check each condition after some additional operations
 493 2012-02-13 13:24:29 <upb> essentially its the same stuff thats used in lunux kernal with goto end;
 494 2012-02-13 13:24:34 <upb> or out or whaever it was
 495 2012-02-13 13:24:51 <edcba> ok it is in a BOOST_FOREACH
 496 2012-02-13 13:25:09 <edcba> wait...
 497 2012-02-13 13:25:11 <sje> yes with only that one condition for the 'continue'
 498 2012-02-13 13:25:21 <sje> no BOOST_FOREACH
 499 2012-02-13 13:25:30 <edcba> no it is in a for()
 500 2012-02-13 13:25:36 <sje> just const iterator in a CRITICAL_BLOCK
 501 2012-02-13 13:25:41 <sje> yes, just a for loop
 502 2012-02-13 13:25:50 <edcba> just for one line...
 503 2012-02-13 13:25:56 <edcba> indeed seems backward
 504 2012-02-13 13:26:00 <sje> so you could haev
 505 2012-02-13 13:26:01 <sje> if (pcoin->IsFinal() && pcoin->IsConfirmed())
 506 2012-02-13 13:26:01 <sje>                 nTotal += pcoin->GetAvailableCredit();
 507 2012-02-13 13:26:08 <sje> reads better :)
 508 2012-02-13 13:26:27 <sje> but, it makes the following function almost as ugly :)
 509 2012-02-13 13:26:29 <edcba> especially with the next function
 510 2012-02-13 13:26:49 <edcba> if (!pcoin->IsFinal() || !pcoin->IsConfirmed())
 511 2012-02-13 13:26:50 <sje> ha
 512 2012-02-13 13:26:54 <edcba> if (pcoin->IsFinal() && pcoin->IsConfirmed())
 513 2012-02-13 13:27:01 <edcba> nice...
 514 2012-02-13 13:27:28 <sje> demorgan's law
 515 2012-02-13 13:27:55 <edcba> i guess you could factorize those functions a bit...
 516 2012-02-13 13:28:38 <Dumb-_> urgh why so complex?
 517 2012-02-13 13:29:03 <Dumb-_> this aint a quadratic equation
 518 2012-02-13 13:29:19 <edcba> because less code, less bugs
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 524 2012-02-13 13:31:46 datagutt_ has joined
 525 2012-02-13 13:32:57 <sje> THERE ARE GOTOS IN LINUX KERNEL?!?!
 526 2012-02-13 13:33:35 * sje goes to get more vodka
 527 2012-02-13 13:33:50 <Joric> http://thorinoakenshield.net/the-hobbit-photo-gallery awesome
 528 2012-02-13 13:34:08 agricocb has joined
 529 2012-02-13 13:34:15 <lianj> sje: gotos within a function are not evil..
 530 2012-02-13 13:34:48 <Joric> i hate fantasy, i like robots more but it's pretty cool
 531 2012-02-13 13:35:38 <cjd> gotos are not necessary in any code so generally if you see them, the code is a mess
 532 2012-02-13 13:35:57 <lianj> cjd: not true
 533 2012-02-13 13:36:40 <Dumb-_> can you do gotos between functions?
 534 2012-02-13 13:36:51 <sipa> there are use cases for them imho, but they are few
 535 2012-02-13 13:36:52 <sje> in cpp they're possibly worse than in c
 536 2012-02-13 13:37:06 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 537 2012-02-13 13:37:08 <sje> e.g. invoking destructors if jumping out of a block
 538 2012-02-13 13:37:18 <sje> too dangerous :)
 539 2012-02-13 13:37:41 <lianj> sipa: yea, and in the kernel they are no mess or lower its quality
 540 2012-02-13 13:38:06 * cjd has seen a lot of "leet" spaghetti code
 541 2012-02-13 13:38:47 <sje> yes, there's an exception to every rule...but that's a pretty damn good rule
 542 2012-02-13 13:38:48 <cjd> it was written by masters of the art, yes. but it is unmaintainable at best and contains buffer overflow vulns at worst
 543 2012-02-13 13:39:12 <lianj> goto cleanup, if done right is totally valid
 544 2012-02-13 13:39:16 <Joric> i'm supporting unmaintable and unexpandable game code since 2006
 545 2012-02-13 13:39:44 <sje> lianj - will that support exceptions?
 546 2012-02-13 13:40:09 <lianj> in C? :P
 547 2012-02-13 13:40:27 <sje> yes - in c it's safer
 548 2012-02-13 13:40:34 <sje> but this is bitcoin-dev :)
 549 2012-02-13 13:40:51 <lianj> i dont care about c++ anw :D
 550 2012-02-13 13:40:59 <sje> :)
 551 2012-02-13 13:41:03 <makomk> Hmmmm. A thought - if transactions spending BIP 16 P2SH outputs pass IsStandard in older nodes and are forwarded by them, what stops the older nodes including them in blocks?
 552 2012-02-13 13:41:05 <Joric> some companies still want me to make branding/port some even buy the source
 553 2012-02-13 13:41:33 iocor has joined
 554 2012-02-13 13:41:46 <Joric> it's absolutely terrifying and the most awful thing i wrote it myself
 555 2012-02-13 13:42:03 <Joric> that's what happening when you have nothing but deadlines
 556 2012-02-13 13:42:27 <cjd> yeap, deadlines ruin good practice
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 558 2012-02-13 13:46:16 <sje> what's wrong with this for my 'GetImmatureBalance' function?
 559 2012-02-13 13:46:18 <sje> if (pcoin->GetBlocksToMaturity() > 0)
 560 2012-02-13 13:46:18 <sje>                 nTotal += pcoin->GetCredit();
 561 2012-02-13 13:46:33 <sje> doesn't work :(
 562 2012-02-13 13:49:00 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 563 2012-02-13 13:49:31 * cjd looks @ that and thinks "arrrrgg why must functions be capitalized?!"
 564 2012-02-13 13:50:11 <sje> hm...it seems 'GetCredit' will only give my 0 if it's immature...arg
 565 2012-02-13 13:51:04 <cjd> C > C++
 566 2012-02-13 13:51:39 <cjd> (but only for one value of C)
 567 2012-02-13 13:51:52 JRWR has joined
 568 2012-02-13 13:52:24 <Dumb-_> i think C++ > C
 569 2012-02-13 13:52:36 <Dumb-_> for example... 5 > 4
 570 2012-02-13 13:52:53 <Joric> by all means, captain
 571 2012-02-13 13:52:57 <Joric> except purity
 572 2012-02-13 13:53:02 <cjd> nerp, ++C > C for all but 1 value :P
 573 2012-02-13 13:53:18 <Dumb-_> what value is that?
 574 2012-02-13 13:53:44 <cjd> UINT32_MAX if C is a uint32_t
 575 2012-02-13 13:54:44 <cjd> actually iirc there's some weirdness in how those rules are interpreted so in some cases it can even depend on the compiler
 576 2012-02-13 13:55:01 <Dumb-_> hmm
 577 2012-02-13 13:55:06 <Dumb-_> i was thinking for a float
 578 2012-02-13 13:55:22 <Joric> i want bitcoin engine in plain c
 579 2012-02-13 13:56:03 <Joric> that would be the real libcoin not all those deviations
 580 2012-02-13 13:56:28 iocor has joined
 581 2012-02-13 13:56:42 <cjd> I support bitcoinC
 582 2012-02-13 13:57:26 <Dumb-_> i support antidisestablishmentarianism
 583 2012-02-13 13:57:32 <Joric> never heard of bitcoinc
 584 2012-02-13 13:57:45 * cjd just invented it now
 585 2012-02-13 13:58:37 <cjd> no threads, C++, no goto -- then it stands half a chance of not having broken patches included by incompetent coders
 586 2012-02-13 13:59:21  has joined
 587 2012-02-13 14:00:08 <Dumb-_> your welcome to start the project yourself
 588 2012-02-13 14:00:17 <Dumb-_> just replace all the clases with struct's n it should be good to go
 589 2012-02-13 14:00:22 <Joric> http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/linus
 590 2012-02-13 14:01:25 <sje> haha 400 BTC immature...better check the outputs are mine, huh? :)
 591 2012-02-13 14:02:16 <cjd> haha
 592 2012-02-13 14:05:26 <Dumb-_> immature?
 593 2012-02-13 14:05:28 <Dumb-_> what does that mean?
 594 2012-02-13 14:07:23 <sje> mined but not deep enough in the block chain to be absolutely certain
 595 2012-02-13 14:07:33 <Dumb-_> ohh
 596 2012-02-13 14:08:14 <sje> mined coins need a longer confirmation period, because they don't have any inputs to check against (i guess)
 597 2012-02-13 14:08:41 <Dumb-_> how long?
 598 2012-02-13 14:08:48 <sje> 120 blocks
 599 2012-02-13 14:09:16 <Dumb-_> 20 hours!!!
 600 2012-02-13 14:09:26 <Dumb-_> i did not know this
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 602 2012-02-13 14:10:53 <sje> my client now shows immature :) woohoo
 603 2012-02-13 14:11:13 <sje> i might make it invisible if immature == 0 and do a pull request :)
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 609 2012-02-13 14:22:38 <makomk> gmaxwell: looks like you were right the first time, IsStandard doesn't validate that the outputs being spent by the transaction are standard at all, at least not in non-P2SH versions of Bitcoin.
 610 2012-02-13 14:23:02 <makomk> gmaxwell: BIP 16 is probably going to be a lot more disruptive than advertisd.
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 623 2012-02-13 14:36:31 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sje397 opened pull request 831 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/831>
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 627 2012-02-13 14:41:58 <gmaxwell> sje: whats with the no-op logic changes to GetUnconfirmedBalance()/GetBalance()?
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 630 2012-02-13 14:43:16 <sje> um...i did it before i thought i was going to do a pull request, and then left them in 'cause i liked them :)
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 632 2012-02-13 14:43:30 <sje> more readable
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 636 2012-02-13 14:48:27 <gmaxwell> sje: I don't see where you changed which transactions the GUI displays.
 637 2012-02-13 14:48:40 <sje> i didn't change that
 638 2012-02-13 14:49:13 <sje> the gui displays 'immature' mined 'transactions' already
 639 2012-02-13 14:49:18 <sje> in the transaction list
 640 2012-02-13 14:49:29 <sje> i only added that label to the overview
 641 2012-02-13 14:49:31 <gmaxwell> Right, then I think you misunderstood me on the pull request. I believe the case right now is that the GUI displays immature transactions only after they're two deep.
 642 2012-02-13 14:49:38 <makomk> gmaxwell: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=63701.0
 643 2012-02-13 14:49:45 <sje> i edited my comment there :)
 644 2012-02-13 14:49:49 <makomk> BIP 16 is going to be interesting.
 645 2012-02-13 14:50:01 <sje> they're still not available until they are 120 deep
 646 2012-02-13 14:50:20 <sje> so for all that time, you have these numbers shown that are not in the overview
 647 2012-02-13 14:51:01 <sje> are you saying that the balance shown on the label I added should require the transaction to be 2 deep?
 648 2012-02-13 14:51:17 <sje> 'cause that's a pretty easy change
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 650 2012-02-13 14:51:17 <gmaxwell> sje: Thats not what I'm talking about. I'm saying I don't believe they are shown at _all_ until they are two blocks deep, and now you're going to have a number in the overview which is inconsistent with whats shown in the transactions.
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 654 2012-02-13 14:51:51 <gmaxwell> sje: I'm saying they should match. I'm not actually sure what the gui behavior is— but I'm pretty sure it shows nothing when the block is completely fresh.
 655 2012-02-13 14:52:36 <sje> i'll double check it...i tend to get notification as a systray popup at pretty much the same time p2pool announces a block, so I *think* it's immediate
 656 2012-02-13 14:52:53 <gmaxwell> (I don't use the GUI myself, but I know that other p2pool miners who do don't see their freshly mined blocks until they are a couple deep. This has come up every few days in #p2pool.)
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 658 2012-02-13 14:54:14 <sje> gmaxwell: you're correct, of course :) line 22 in transactionrecord.cpp
 659 2012-02-13 14:54:23 <sje> i'll modify my code to match - it's a 1 char change
 660 2012-02-13 14:55:10 <sje> actually a bit more
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 662 2012-02-13 14:56:40 <gmaxwell> sje: Cool. That was the only complaint I had.
 663 2012-02-13 14:57:03 <sje> yeah sorry i missed your point
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 666 2012-02-13 14:59:14 <gmaxwell> sje: If you're mining with the gui.. you ought to add a gui interface to the backupwallet function. You don't want to have to shut down your mining in order to backup your wallet, do you? :) (I'm always eager to suggest work for people who like working on the GUI...)
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 668 2012-02-13 14:59:49 <sje> haha - i'm mining on a different instance than the one with my wallet :)
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 670 2012-02-13 15:00:17 <sje> but i'll consider doing that, certainly
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 672 2012-02-13 15:01:47 <sje> i'm kinda keen to add a GUI interface to validate signed messages - it's kinda lopsided atm
 673 2012-02-13 15:03:35 <gmaxwell> oh, the signmessage gui doesn't validate? luke-jr tisk tisk.
 674 2012-02-13 15:04:44 <gmaxwell> sje: I only mentioned the absense of backup because it seems so easy (file dialog plus existing code), and its the only real gui omission that bugs me. (not being a gui user myself... I mostly only care about omissions that make people show up crying)
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 679 2012-02-13 15:06:24 <sje> gmaxwell: 2am, so not tonight...but i'll try later, if no-one beats me to it
 680 2012-02-13 15:07:31 <gmaxwell> Very cool. We certantly need more people hacking on the GUI around here.
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 810 2012-02-13 19:14:40 <Dumb_> i was just banned from #bitcoin for no reason
 811 2012-02-13 19:14:50 <Dumb_> by phantomcircuit
 812 2012-02-13 19:15:12 <Diablo-D3> because you ban evaded.
 813 2012-02-13 19:15:28 <Dumb_> no i never
 814 2012-02-13 19:15:45 <Graet> when? i couldnt find it in my scroll back
 815 2012-02-13 19:15:56 <Dumb_> just a second ago Graet
 816 2012-02-13 19:16:11 <Graet> um no when were you banned that u eveaded...
 817 2012-02-13 19:16:39 <Diablo-D3> hes been banned for trolling before
 818 2012-02-13 19:16:44 <Dumb_> i donno, he claims I was some person called Idiot
 819 2012-02-13 19:16:53 <Diablo-D3> you are idiot and moron
 820 2012-02-13 19:17:00 <Diablo-D3> your nicks, they fit a theme
 821 2012-02-13 19:17:02 btc_novice has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 822 2012-02-13 19:17:03 <Diablo-D3> very self depreciating
 823 2012-02-13 19:17:09 <Dumb_> no, i just picked this name randomly
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 827 2012-02-13 19:18:03 <Dumb_> im a bit disappointed that I just got banned, i wanted to contribute to the discussion
 828 2012-02-13 19:18:12 <Dumb_> n hes not responding to my pms anymore
 829 2012-02-13 19:18:13 <Diablo-D3> okay, so why is your hostname the same as his? ;)
 830 2012-02-13 19:18:17 * cjd nominates diablo to weild the ban hammer
 831 2012-02-13 19:18:29 random_cat has joined
 832 2012-02-13 19:18:36 <Dumb_> what, bt internet?
 833 2012-02-13 19:18:44 <Dumb_> its a uk isp
 834 2012-02-13 19:19:13 <Dumb_> if you guys wanted me to use a different name, you could have said so
 835 2012-02-13 19:19:47 <pingdrive> well i guess its in your interest to find Idiot to absolve yourself then?
 836 2012-02-13 19:20:08 <Dumb_> who is this idiot ?
 837 2012-02-13 19:20:13 <Dumb_> can you give me his info?
 838 2012-02-13 19:20:24 <pingdrive> i dont have it
 839 2012-02-13 19:20:27 <pingdrive> sorry
 840 2012-02-13 19:20:52 <Dumb_> im so upset
 841 2012-02-13 19:21:20 <Dumb_> now i gotta find some guy i dont know to get unbanned?
 842 2012-02-13 19:21:37 <pingdrive> bingo
 843 2012-02-13 19:21:45 BlueMatt_ has joined
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 845 2012-02-13 19:22:05 phantomfakeBNC has joined
 846 2012-02-13 19:22:12 <pingdrive> proves how badly you want it
 847 2012-02-13 19:22:31 <Dumb_> i just am interested in bitcoin
 848 2012-02-13 19:22:36 <Graet> <gribble> idiot__ was last seen in #bitcoin 4 days, 21 hours, 34 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <Idiot__> i prefer salmon
 849 2012-02-13 19:22:38 <Dumb_> n i dont like being accused of doing things that i havent done
 850 2012-02-13 19:22:47 <Graet> banned 4 days ago and rebanned now?
 851 2012-02-13 19:23:29 <BlueMatt_> wow, write to disk, wait about 1 minute, computer crash, and the file is gone...???
 852 2012-02-13 19:23:33 <Graet> slow reaction time phantomcircuit this guys been in irc a couple of days....
 853 2012-02-13 19:23:36 <BlueMatt_> thats some huge lag time there
 854 2012-02-13 19:23:55 BlueMatt_ is now known as BlueMatt
 855 2012-02-13 19:24:18 <Dumb_> is there anyone i can complain to?
 856 2012-02-13 19:24:22 <BlueMatt> no
 857 2012-02-13 19:24:27 <phantomcircuit> Graet, i banned him yesterday
 858 2012-02-13 19:24:37 <pingdrive> the complaint department of bitcoin
 859 2012-02-13 19:24:52 <pingdrive> #bitcoin-complaints
 860 2012-02-13 19:24:57 <BlueMatt> please file a formal complain with your local /dev/null
 861 2012-02-13 19:25:15 <BlueMatt> minimum 10 pages, single spaced, 12 pt times new roman
 862 2012-02-13 19:25:21 <BlueMatt> in ms word 1995 format
 863 2012-02-13 19:25:25 <lianj> padded with /dev/zero
 864 2012-02-13 19:25:29 <Dumb_> theres no one there pingdrive
 865 2012-02-13 19:25:44 <Dumb_> BlueMatt: thats not nice :(
 866 2012-02-13 19:25:47 <pingdrive> you have to keep waiting
 867 2012-02-13 19:25:50 <pingdrive> someone will join
 868 2012-02-13 19:25:56 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 869 2012-02-13 19:26:03 <pingdrive> i paged the right people, they said they are coming
 870 2012-02-13 19:26:04 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Client Quit)
 871 2012-02-13 19:26:07 <Dumb_> you guys seem to be making fun of me
 872 2012-02-13 19:26:08 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 873 2012-02-13 19:26:10 h4ckm3 has quit (Quit: changing servers)
 874 2012-02-13 19:26:16 <Dumb_> is this how u treat people?
 875 2012-02-13 19:26:16 smoothie has quit (Quit: changing servers)
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 877 2012-02-13 19:26:46 <Graet> unfortunately some do Dumb_
 878 2012-02-13 19:26:51 <pingdrive> okay here we go again, not people only trolls
 879 2012-02-13 19:27:05 <Dumb_> im not a troll
 880 2012-02-13 19:27:11 <lianj> is this your first complain/argument on the internets?
 881 2012-02-13 19:27:21 <Graet> he wasnt doing anything wrong,was engaging in conversation and was banned out of the blue...
 882 2012-02-13 19:27:22 <pingdrive> lol
 883 2012-02-13 19:27:24 <pingdrive> i knew youd say that
 884 2012-02-13 19:27:39 <pingdrive> i hope its fun for the both of us
 885 2012-02-13 19:27:45 <Dumb_> yeh Graet thank you
 886 2012-02-13 19:27:55 <pingdrive> but seriously #bitcoin-complaints is your only hope now
 887 2012-02-13 19:28:07 <Dumb_> the channel is empty
 888 2012-02-13 19:28:12 smoothie has joined
 889 2012-02-13 19:28:35 <Dumb_> grr the guy who ddosed me is there
 890 2012-02-13 19:28:40 <pingdrive> just keep waiting
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 892 2012-02-13 19:28:51 <BlueMatt> people join there when they feel like taking complaints, just wait
 893 2012-02-13 19:28:54 <Dumb_> banned him
 894 2012-02-13 19:29:08 <pingdrive> whoever's coming will take care of the guy to
 895 2012-02-13 19:29:13 <pingdrive> dont worry
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 897 2012-02-13 19:29:24 <pingdrive> you're covered
 898 2012-02-13 19:29:36 <Dumb_> oh
 899 2012-02-13 19:29:47 <Dumb_> phantomcircuit said im banned forever too
 900 2012-02-13 19:29:49 Diablo-D3 has joined
 901 2012-02-13 19:29:50 <Dumb_> isnt that a bit steep?
 902 2012-02-13 19:30:00 <Dumb_> why permanent ban?
 903 2012-02-13 19:30:06 <jercos> Breaking a promise is the fastest way to lose a friend
 904 2012-02-13 19:30:10 <jercos> FOREVER
 905 2012-02-13 19:30:42 <Dumb_> can i complain to a freenode staffer?
 906 2012-02-13 19:30:55 <pingdrive> of course
 907 2012-02-13 19:31:13 <luke-jr> Dumb_: they won't care
 908 2012-02-13 19:31:17 <Dumb_> whats the complaint email?
 909 2012-02-13 19:31:27 <pingdrive> complaint@freenode.net
 910 2012-02-13 19:31:31 <Dumb_> why not luke-jr?
 911 2012-02-13 19:31:43 <luke-jr> Dumb_: Freenode staff don't have any permissions on #Bitcoin
 912 2012-02-13 19:31:53 <BlueMatt> pingdrive: oh, dont send them to freenode staff
 913 2012-02-13 19:32:11 <BlueMatt> freenode staff dont have time to deal with this shit
 914 2012-02-13 19:32:31 <Dumb_> this shit? i just got banned for no reason?
 915 2012-02-13 19:32:38 <lianj> m( waaaaa
 916 2012-02-13 19:32:38 <jercos> Time, or domain. Freenode staff are also explicitly cut off from mucking around in channel issues that don't pertain to the network at large.
 917 2012-02-13 19:32:41 <pingdrive> oh werd, Dumb_ scratch that, #bitcoin-complaints
 918 2012-02-13 19:32:42 <luke-jr> Dumb_: phantomcircuit doesn't need a reason
 919 2012-02-13 19:32:43 <BlueMatt> ok, thats not freenode's problem
 920 2012-02-13 19:32:44 <pingdrive> instead
 921 2012-02-13 19:32:56 <jercos> Dumb_: Nobody cares, you don't have a "right" to be in a channel, grow up, get a life.
 922 2012-02-13 19:32:58 <Dumb_> what about gavin, can he do anything?
 923 2012-02-13 19:33:06 <BlueMatt> no
 924 2012-02-13 19:33:35 <Dumb_> jercos: yeh but I have a _right_ not to be accused of doing stuff I never did
 925 2012-02-13 19:33:43 <luke-jr> I think he can, but I don't think I've ever seen him *in* #bitcoin let alone moderate it
 926 2012-02-13 19:34:13 smoothie has quit (Quit: changing servers)
 927 2012-02-13 19:34:19 <luke-jr> Dumb_: then sue phantomcircuit for libel.
 928 2012-02-13 19:34:27 <luke-jr> doesn't mean you get back into #bitcoin
 929 2012-02-13 19:34:30 <jercos> Dumb_: Absolutely, that's slander. That doesn't mean you get to be in a channel, it means now you can sue someone for slander, because they attacked you in a manner of speaking.
 930 2012-02-13 19:34:43 <jercos> Or libel yes, I guess this is a "print media" being text.
 931 2012-02-13 19:34:55 theymos has joined
 932 2012-02-13 19:35:08 <sipa> Dumb_: you claim you are not Idiot___ ?
 933 2012-02-13 19:35:11 <Dumb_> no because if he didnt go around accusing random people of stuff, i wouldnt be banned
 934 2012-02-13 19:35:14 <Dumb_> he could ban any of you guys next
 935 2012-02-13 19:35:17 <sipa> or however many underscores after it?
 936 2012-02-13 19:35:21 <jercos> But since that's a waste of your resources, I'd suggest just sucking it up and growing a pair, like everyone else.
 937 2012-02-13 19:35:24 h4ckm3 has quit (Quit: changing servers)
 938 2012-02-13 19:35:39 <jercos> Dumb_: So? Anyone with ops in a channel can ban anyone they want.
 939 2012-02-13 19:36:03 <Dumb_> so, this is a public project... there should be some accountability
 940 2012-02-13 19:36:10 nameless1 is now known as nameless|
 941 2012-02-13 19:36:12 h4ckm3 has joined
 942 2012-02-13 19:36:22 <jercos> Case in point.
 943 2012-02-13 19:36:54 smoothie has joined
 944 2012-02-13 19:36:54 <jercos> Dumb_: I'm not sure what part of this is a public project. Bitcoin itself? certainly not.
 945 2012-02-13 19:37:22 <Dumb_> oh its a privately owned project now?
 946 2012-02-13 19:37:34 <jercos> Sure. Satoshi has always owned it.
 947 2012-02-13 19:37:52 <sipa> you're free to fork it, or implement an own client, though
 948 2012-02-13 19:37:53 <Dumb_> in that case none of you have the right to do anything without asking him
 949 2012-02-13 19:37:57 <sipa> or build services around it
 950 2012-02-13 19:38:10 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 951 2012-02-13 19:38:19 <jeremias> no one has right to anything
 952 2012-02-13 19:38:22 <luke-jr> Bitcoin is a public protocol
 953 2012-02-13 19:38:25 <luke-jr> not a project
 954 2012-02-13 19:38:28 <jercos> Dumb_: Incorrect. You seem to have a rather black and white viewpoint on a brown issue. Are you perhaps, a privaleged white american?
 955 2012-02-13 19:38:28 denisx has joined
 956 2012-02-13 19:38:48 <Dumb_> look at my hostname, im from the uk
 957 2012-02-13 19:38:51 <Dumb_> as ive mentioned before
 958 2012-02-13 19:38:58 BlueMatt has joined
 959 2012-02-13 19:38:59 <jercos> Your hostname is slicehost. You can be where you want.
 960 2012-02-13 19:39:12 <jercos> Erm ah never mind.
 961 2012-02-13 19:39:22 <jercos> I'm confusing you with someone else who acts like you :p
 962 2012-02-13 19:39:26 <Dumb_> i disagree jeremias
 963 2012-02-13 19:39:30 <Dumb_> i think everyone has basic rights
 964 2012-02-13 19:39:41 <Dumb_> and just because i choose to stand up for myself you guys seem to be criticising and mocking me
 965 2012-02-13 19:39:42 <luke-jr> Dumb_: those don't include IRC
 966 2012-02-13 19:39:47 <Graet> <jercos> I'm confusing you with someone else who acts like you :p  <, i think this is part of the problem
 967 2012-02-13 19:39:52 <jercos> Dumb_: You think. So um, you make up rights, and so you get them?
 968 2012-02-13 19:39:58 * luke-jr looks at BlueMatt funny
 969 2012-02-13 19:39:58 Dumb_ has joined
 970 2012-02-13 19:40:11 <Dumb_> and now i get kicked too
 971 2012-02-13 19:40:13 <jercos> Dammit.
 972 2012-02-13 19:40:16 <jercos> Dumb_: You think. So um, you make up rights, and so you get them?
 973 2012-02-13 19:40:17 <Graet> sigh
 974 2012-02-13 19:40:20 <BlueMatt> is it odd that i saw myself ping timeout? shouldnt I not see that since ive already lost connection?
 975 2012-02-13 19:40:35 <jercos> BlueMatt: Not if you miss a ping, but retain connection.
 976 2012-02-13 19:40:39 <Dumb_> jercos: the right to life, liberty and the persuit of happyness, to dignity and respect, theres lots
 977 2012-02-13 19:40:45 <jercos> The server still sends an ERROR to the dead link before dropping it.
 978 2012-02-13 19:40:49 <sipa> Dumb_: and with good reason; if i were op here, and you did nothing but complain about being banned in #bitcoin, i'd ban you here as well
 979 2012-02-13 19:40:50 <luke-jr> Dumb_: that's American bs
 980 2012-02-13 19:41:03 sacarlson has joined
 981 2012-02-13 19:41:12 <jercos> Dumb_: Sounding more american by the minute. who are those rights, and not say, my right to a solid gold brick?
 982 2012-02-13 19:41:13 <Dumb_> theres a universal declaration of human rights too
 983 2012-02-13 19:41:22 <jercos> erm, why those rights*
 984 2012-02-13 19:41:22 <luke-jr> Dumb_: there's a right to life, but none of that other stuff
 985 2012-02-13 19:41:50 <jercos> BlueMatt: Awww, you're no fun. i was leading up to that >.>
 986 2012-02-13 19:42:16 <BlueMatt> meh, why waste disk space on him in logs?
 987 2012-02-13 19:42:50 <jercos> Why waste disk space logging #bitcoin-dev period? ;)
 988 2012-02-13 19:43:12 <jercos> (because I have terabytes left on my log array)
 989 2012-02-13 19:43:20 * luke-jr needs to find a way to stop logging #bitcoin-watch
 990 2012-02-13 19:45:14 p0s has joined
 991 2012-02-13 19:48:02 Dumb_ has joined
 992 2012-02-13 19:48:14 <Dumb_> that was not nice
 993 2012-02-13 19:48:35 <sipa> Dumb_: maybe not, but if you keep complaining about it, it will happen again
 994 2012-02-13 19:49:32 <luke-jr> Dumb_: there's a right to life, but none of that other stuff
 995 2012-02-13 19:49:40 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: please stop
 996 2012-02-13 19:50:22 <Dumb_> O_o
 997 2012-02-13 19:50:29 <lianj> http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png
 998 2012-02-13 19:50:46 pingdrive has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 999 2012-02-13 19:53:30 <theymos> Is it true that IsStandard won't block BIP 16 enough to protect old miners? ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=63701.0 ) This seems false to me.
1000 2012-02-13 19:54:02 JRWR has quit (Disconnected by services)
1001 2012-02-13 19:54:15 JRWR has joined
1002 2012-02-13 19:55:21 JRWR has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1003 2012-02-13 19:55:35 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1004 2012-02-13 19:55:59 ThomasV has joined
1005 2012-02-13 19:56:05 <luke-jr> theymos: makomk seems to usually know what he's talking about in this area
1006 2012-02-13 19:56:10 paul0 has quit (Quit: paul0)
1007 2012-02-13 19:56:29 <luke-jr> it sounds logical
1008 2012-02-13 19:56:44 <luke-jr> also sounds like a non-issue practically
1009 2012-02-13 19:57:05 <luke-jr> when BIP 16/17 get adopted, the remaining miners will probably upgrade quickly
1010 2012-02-13 19:57:17 <sipa> of course it is true
1011 2012-02-13 19:57:30 <Dumb_> i dont think its true
1012 2012-02-13 19:57:34 <luke-jr> however, I do wonder if BIP 16-related chnages might be responsible for the reported high CPU usage in 0.6rc1
1013 2012-02-13 19:57:49 <sipa> if BIP16 is deployed after having a supermajority, any miner that doesn't upgrade is vulnerable to creating blocks that the rest won't accept
1014 2012-02-13 19:57:58 JRWR has joined
1015 2012-02-13 19:58:11 <luke-jr> sipa: well, before there was a claim that IsStandard would protect against that in practice
1016 2012-02-13 19:58:28 <sipa> ah, true
1017 2012-02-13 19:58:32 <sipa> i think makomk is correct here, though
1018 2012-02-13 19:58:47 <sipa> BIP16 inputs are standard
1019 2012-02-13 19:58:51 <sipa> only the outputs aren't
1020 2012-02-13 19:59:05 <luke-jr> BIP 17 inputs are not standard, BUT an attacker doesn't need to use valid inputs for this :/
1021 2012-02-13 19:59:38 <sipa> right, it's not even relevant
1022 2012-02-13 20:00:57 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1023 2012-02-13 20:01:00 <luke-jr> if we had AreInputsStandard in older versions, it'd probably be immune
1024 2012-02-13 20:01:03 Dumb_ is now known as Dumb-_
1025 2012-02-13 20:01:14 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1026 2012-02-13 20:01:22 BlueMatt has joined
1027 2012-02-13 20:01:35 <Dumb-_> wb BlueMatt
1028 2012-02-13 20:02:00 <sipa> luke-jr: we do (though not by that name), it tests whether the scriptSig only has pushes
1029 2012-02-13 20:02:01 <theymos> So the problem is that IsStandard doesn't look at full script pairs?
1030 2012-02-13 20:02:07 <luke-jr> does anyone have a tool to measure flags in the last 1000 blocks?
1031 2012-02-13 20:02:16 <BlueMatt> fun, apparently if you try to put a chart in a csv in libreoffice, it overwrites the original file with crap (or deletes it) and crashes my display driver...seriously WTF????
1032 2012-02-13 20:02:18 <luke-jr> sipa: that doesn't check inputs
1033 2012-02-13 20:02:50 <sipa> luke-jr: oh right, i see what you mean
1034 2012-02-13 20:02:59 <luke-jr> sipa: AIUI, AreInputsStandard looks at the input txns and makes sure their scriptPubKeys are std
1035 2012-02-13 20:03:30 <sipa> yes, you are right
1036 2012-02-13 20:04:07 <luke-jr> anyhow, does anyone have a tool to measure flags in the last 1000 blocks? <.<
1037 2012-02-13 20:05:25 <sipa> gavin has, afaik
1038 2012-02-13 20:06:15 malkauns has joined
1039 2012-02-13 20:07:04 malkauns has quit (Client Quit)
1040 2012-02-13 20:07:09 malkauns has joined
1041 2012-02-13 20:07:19 malkauns has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1042 2012-02-13 20:08:14 ThomasV has joined
1043 2012-02-13 20:08:18 malkauns has joined
1044 2012-02-13 20:10:30 Dumb-_ is now known as Dumb2
1045 2012-02-13 20:11:57 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1046 2012-02-13 20:13:12 chmod755 is now known as Idiot_Sucks
1047 2012-02-13 20:15:03 <luke-jr> hmm, 2% supporting BIP 17, 0% opposed
1048 2012-02-13 20:15:33 <cjd> lol
1049 2012-02-13 20:15:57 <luke-jr> Eligius is not the full 2%
1050 2012-02-13 20:17:06 Dumb2 is now known as Dumb-
1051 2012-02-13 20:17:32 <luke-jr> 22% supporting BIP 16; 1.8% opposed
1052 2012-02-13 20:17:46 Dumb- has quit ()
1053 2012-02-13 20:18:01 <luke-jr> I think Deepbit is failing to express opposition to both :P
1054 2012-02-13 20:18:06 Dumb_ has joined
1055 2012-02-13 20:18:20 Idiot_Sucks has quit (Quit: RAGEQUIT: FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU)
1056 2012-02-13 20:18:35 <BlueMatt> heh
1057 2012-02-13 20:18:35 larsivi has joined
1058 2012-02-13 20:18:49 <gmaxwell> hm. Is makomk really correct? any script that could spend a BIP16 output would have a script pubkey that looks like spending a pay to hash.
1059 2012-02-13 20:18:52 chmod755 has joined
1060 2012-02-13 20:18:55 <gmaxwell> Those aren't standard.
1061 2012-02-13 20:18:57 chmod755 has quit (Changing host)
1062 2012-02-13 20:18:57 chmod755 has joined
1063 2012-02-13 20:19:15 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1064 2012-02-13 20:19:24 <sipa> gmaxwell: old code only verifies whether an input only has pushes
1065 2012-02-13 20:19:30 <sipa> to check standardness
1066 2012-02-13 20:19:42 <gmaxwell> oh right. duh.
1067 2012-02-13 20:20:01 <gmaxwell> I don't know why I keep getting confused about this. I had it right before.
1068 2012-02-13 20:20:36 <luke-jr> lol
1069 2012-02-13 20:21:33 olp has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1070 2012-02-13 20:21:33 <luke-jr> I don't think BIP 17 has to die yet, but I don't have the time nor reputation to do it justice… so unless someone else steps forward to be the new champion, I expect I will probably withdraw it this week
1071 2012-02-13 20:22:31 <luke-jr> I still consider BIP 16's success to be a tragedy, but I need to move on to more important things
1072 2012-02-13 20:22:51 Dumb- has joined
1073 2012-02-13 20:23:50 Dumb- has quit (Client Quit)
1074 2012-02-13 20:24:00 Dumb_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1075 2012-02-13 20:24:06 Dumb_ has joined
1076 2012-02-13 20:24:18 <TD> i never cease to be amazed at what a hash the java community has made of logging
1077 2012-02-13 20:24:22 olp has joined
1078 2012-02-13 20:24:35 <cjd> haha
1079 2012-02-13 20:24:48 <Diablo-D3> FUCKING JAVA LOGGING
1080 2012-02-13 20:24:52 <sipa> TD: i never got past using System.out.println...
1081 2012-02-13 20:25:18 <Diablo-D3> sipa: heh, thats what I did
1082 2012-02-13 20:25:19 <Diablo-D3> I was like
1083 2012-02-13 20:25:29 <Diablo-D3> slf4j. but thats too big for DM. jul? no.
1084 2012-02-13 20:25:33 <Diablo-D3> FUCK IT, PRINTF TIME
1085 2012-02-13 20:25:39 <Diablo-D3> OLD SCHOOL NIGGERS!
1086 2012-02-13 20:25:51 <Dumb_> racist :P
1087 2012-02-13 20:26:04 <Diablo-D3> yes you are, Dumb_.
1088 2012-02-13 20:26:48 <cjd> the more I do java, the more excited I am about javascript
1089 2012-02-13 20:26:49 <TD> yeah, i am >< this close to just writing my own SLF4J backend
1090 2012-02-13 20:26:58 <Diablo-D3> td: see, thats the great part
1091 2012-02-13 20:27:03 <Diablo-D3> slf4j lets you write your OWN backend.
1092 2012-02-13 20:27:12 <Diablo-D3> which solves the whole logging issue forever
1093 2012-02-13 20:27:17 <Diablo-D3> one universal logging framework.
1094 2012-02-13 20:27:36 datagutt_ has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1095 2012-02-13 20:27:49 twmz_ is now known as twmz__
1096 2012-02-13 20:28:03 twmz__ is now known as twmz___
1097 2012-02-13 20:28:13 twmz___ is now known as twmz_
1098 2012-02-13 20:28:25 <theymos> I'm taking a mandatory Java course now. Strikes me as a lot less elegant than C++ (especially the lack of RAII).
1099 2012-02-13 20:28:44 <Dumb_> rati?
1100 2012-02-13 20:28:50 <gmaxwell> theymos: Java is actually pretty smart. They took away the sharp edges.
1101 2012-02-13 20:28:52 <Dumb_> raii?
1102 2012-02-13 20:29:10 <Diablo-D3> fucking RAII
1103 2012-02-13 20:29:18 <Diablo-D3> I hate that goddamned shit.
1104 2012-02-13 20:29:21 <Diablo-D3> just use C, morons
1105 2012-02-13 20:29:49 <Diablo-D3> people were using RAII-like techniques in C long before C++ ever existed
1106 2012-02-13 20:30:44 sacarlson has joined
1107 2012-02-13 20:31:03 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: yea, ... with GOTO. ;)
1108 2012-02-13 20:31:24 <Diablo-D3> hurrr.
1109 2012-02-13 20:31:44 <sipa> there is one thing i really consider an improvement in C++ over C: destructors
1110 2012-02-13 20:31:52 <Diablo-D3> sipa: C has those.
1111 2012-02-13 20:32:00 malkauns has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1112 2012-02-13 20:32:01 <Dumb_> C does?
1113 2012-02-13 20:32:04 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: yes, it's calll "goto".
1114 2012-02-13 20:32:24 <gmaxwell> (actually, C99 var arrays do reduce the need for that sort of thing but ::shrugs::)
1115 2012-02-13 20:32:33 <gmaxwell> s/calll/called/
1116 2012-02-13 20:32:44 <Diablo-D3> sipa: its called TypedeffedStruct_Free() or _Close() or whatever appropriate verbage.
1117 2012-02-13 20:32:45 <phantomcircuit> goto err1;
1118 2012-02-13 20:33:02 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: and no, I dont need to "catch" "exceptions" with goto
1119 2012-02-13 20:33:03 <phantomcircuit> that's how openssl works
1120 2012-02-13 20:33:07 <Diablo-D3> shit coded right will never need that.
1121 2012-02-13 20:33:34 <TD> theymos: good c++ > bad java. however it's easy to write bad c++
1122 2012-02-13 20:33:49 <gmaxwell> what TD says.
1123 2012-02-13 20:33:50 <Diablo-D3> good > bad in any language vs any other language
1124 2012-02-13 20:33:52 * cjd looks up RAII
1125 2012-02-13 20:33:54 <TD> the problem isn't really the language
1126 2012-02-13 20:34:00 <TD> though it has some annoying design decisions
1127 2012-02-13 20:34:03 <Diablo-D3> the problem is the fucking coder
1128 2012-02-13 20:34:03 <TD> it's more the frameworks that grow around it
1129 2012-02-13 20:34:07 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: C++ is full of sharp edges.
1130 2012-02-13 20:34:12 <Diablo-D3> TD: YES
1131 2012-02-13 20:34:14 <Diablo-D3> EXACTLY
1132 2012-02-13 20:34:14 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: yea, well you can't always pick super ninjas.
1133 2012-02-13 20:34:15 <TD> the java logging API is the most over-engineered piece of garbage i've seen for a long time
1134 2012-02-13 20:34:17 <Diablo-D3> THE FUCKING COMMUNITY
1135 2012-02-13 20:34:21 * cjd realizes he implemented it in cjdmemory Allocator onFree()
1136 2012-02-13 20:34:38 <sipa> Diablo-D3: ok, i'll rephrase: i consider automatically invoked destructors an improvement of C++ over C
1137 2012-02-13 20:34:48 <phantomcircuit> TD, then clearly you haven't seen the python logging api
1138 2012-02-13 20:34:52 <Diablo-D3> sipa: I dont cosider constructors a good language feature.
1139 2012-02-13 20:34:54 <TD> hah. i have not, it is true
1140 2012-02-13 20:34:54 <phantomcircuit> i believe it's a clone plus some shit
1141 2012-02-13 20:34:59 <Diablo-D3> they only make sense for objects
1142 2012-02-13 20:35:08 <Diablo-D3> not all APIs will have objects
1143 2012-02-13 20:35:13 <Diablo-D3> it wont make sense for them too
1144 2012-02-13 20:35:14 <Diablo-D3> *to
1145 2012-02-13 20:35:25 * TD gives up and makes everything log at the same level
1146 2012-02-13 20:35:28 <Diablo-D3> td: you know why DiabloMiner is my first and last Java program?
1147 2012-02-13 20:35:35 <TD> shock me
1148 2012-02-13 20:35:38 torsthaldo has joined
1149 2012-02-13 20:35:50 <Diablo-D3> because of the fucking community
1150 2012-02-13 20:35:58 <Diablo-D3> there is so much goddamned fucking broken shit in the javaverse
1151 2012-02-13 20:36:05 <Diablo-D3> and you cant fix it because other shit depends on that broken shit
1152 2012-02-13 20:36:09 <sipa> i believe there is a lot of broken stuff for any language
1153 2012-02-13 20:36:12 <Diablo-D3> but if you go write your own you're wasting time
1154 2012-02-13 20:36:24 <Diablo-D3> no, see, like, C HAS NO COMMUNITY
1155 2012-02-13 20:36:24 erle- has joined
1156 2012-02-13 20:36:25 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: dude, just use a LoggerFactoryFactory and give it the argument for simple logging. Done.
1157 2012-02-13 20:36:35 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: thats TD's issue
1158 2012-02-13 20:36:57 <sipa> lol @ FactoryFactory
1159 2012-02-13 20:37:05 <TD> sipa: yeah the problem is the broken stuff in java is all industry standard and used by everything :)
1160 2012-02-13 20:37:14 <Diablo-D3> td: theres no maven, theres make. jsut one make, not maven and ant and eclipse's shit and shit, its just make.
1161 2012-02-13 20:37:23 <Diablo-D3> td: theres no 3000 libraries for httpd shit
1162 2012-02-13 20:37:25 <TD> gmaxwell: did you mean: an AbstractLoggerFactoryBuilder?
1163 2012-02-13 20:37:27 <Diablo-D3> theres not 20 xml parsers
1164 2012-02-13 20:37:30 <Diablo-D3> there isnt 4 json parsers
1165 2012-02-13 20:37:35 <TD> Diablo-D3: in fairness, make sucks as well, just in different ways
1166 2012-02-13 20:37:37 <cjd> LOL
1167 2012-02-13 20:37:41 <Diablo-D3> no, see
1168 2012-02-13 20:37:43 <Diablo-D3> make doesnt suck
1169 2012-02-13 20:37:49 <Diablo-D3> make has flaws which are 100% documented and known
1170 2012-02-13 20:37:54 <makomk> Actually, I think there probably are about 4 JSON parsers for C, all of which suck in different ways
1171 2012-02-13 20:37:56 <gmaxwell> All I can say is: Not knowing shit about java and wading into someone elses java code is only slightly painful. Doing similar with C++ is pretty much pure pain.
1172 2012-02-13 20:37:56 <Diablo-D3> maven has FUCK YOU OF THE WEEK
1173 2012-02-13 20:38:07 <sipa> and there are 100 extensions to make which may or may not resolve those issues
1174 2012-02-13 20:38:18 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: I never had that problem, and I suck at java
1175 2012-02-13 20:38:23 <Diablo-D3> its python that does that
1176 2012-02-13 20:38:27 <Diablo-D3> nothing in python makes sense
1177 2012-02-13 20:38:40 <Diablo-D3> the syntax is retarded, the code generally leads to being nondescriptive
1178 2012-02-13 20:38:47 <Diablo-D3> python should just be banned off the internet
1179 2012-02-13 20:39:05 <gmaxwell> Shit, I tracked down and diagnosed a JVM bug with about 12 total hours java expirence. ... I think I'll never be able tell if I've screwed up or there is a compiler bug in C++ even in another 20 years of programming.
1180 2012-02-13 20:39:24 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: thats another thing
1181 2012-02-13 20:39:30 <Diablo-D3> I thought having a universal VM was great
1182 2012-02-13 20:39:32 <sipa> gmaxwell: http://abstrusegoose.com/249
1183 2012-02-13 20:39:33 <Diablo-D3> I WAS WRONG
1184 2012-02-13 20:39:38 <gmaxwell> I think python's syntax is fine. :: <3 list comprehensions ::
1185 2012-02-13 20:39:58 wasabi1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1186 2012-02-13 20:40:09 <TD> there are some very nice libraries in java
1187 2012-02-13 20:40:19 <Diablo-D3> IT JUST MAKES IT WORSE
1188 2012-02-13 20:40:23 <TD> joptsimple is pretty straightforward
1189 2012-02-13 20:41:03 <Eliel> Diablo-D3: I think the problem with java was that it was artificially pushed all over the place before it was really finished. Now it's too late to fix.
1190 2012-02-13 20:41:30 <TD> microsoft has evolved C# pretty well
1191 2012-02-13 20:41:36 <TD> C# is what java should have been, imo
1192 2012-02-13 20:41:37 userlkhk has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1193 2012-02-13 20:41:52 <gmaxwell> TD: I get that impression too, except the "controlled by msft" part. ;)
1194 2012-02-13 20:41:55 <sipa> TD: yes, they learned from Java's inconveniences well, imho
1195 2012-02-13 20:42:08 JRWR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1196 2012-02-13 20:42:08 <gmaxwell> yea, second gen > first gen. duh.
1197 2012-02-13 20:42:23 <cjd> there was this promise made in the 90's, use java now and we'll make your application fast later with jit magic etc..
1198 2012-02-13 20:42:43 BlueMatt has joined
1199 2012-02-13 20:42:57 <cjd> and now we have silly things like a boolean or a byte taking up 4 (or 8) bytes
1200 2012-02-13 20:43:14 <Diablo-D3> seriously, I should just fucking recode DiabloMiner in C
1201 2012-02-13 20:43:14 <Diablo-D3> and tell the windows users to go fuck off
1202 2012-02-13 20:43:14 <Diablo-D3> if they want it they can compile it themselves
1203 2012-02-13 20:43:14 Diablo-D3 has quit (Excess Flood)
1204 2012-02-13 20:43:26 <sipa> Dumb_: you mean cgminer? *ducks*
1205 2012-02-13 20:43:29 <sipa> eh
1206 2012-02-13 20:43:31 <chmod755> boolean.....4 bytes?????
1207 2012-02-13 20:43:34 <chmod755> lol?
1208 2012-02-13 20:43:40 <cjd> yes
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1210 2012-02-13 20:43:48 <chmod755> boolean == 1 bit
1211 2012-02-13 20:43:50 <cjd> or 8 bytes depending on whether the vm is 64 bit
1212 2012-02-13 20:43:53 <sipa> cjd: that's an implementation issue, no?
1213 2012-02-13 20:43:55 <chmod755> LMAO
1214 2012-02-13 20:44:00 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1215 2012-02-13 20:44:10 <BlueMatt> chmod755: name one language that actually uses 1 bit for a boolean
1216 2012-02-13 20:44:20 <cjd> yeah implementation issue but the point is sunoracle just dosen't care
1217 2012-02-13 20:44:24 <chmod755> BlueMatt: errr.... assembly?
1218 2012-02-13 20:44:28 <BlueMatt> nope
1219 2012-02-13 20:44:29 <sipa> C's bitfields
1220 2012-02-13 20:44:30 <copumpkin> chmod755: depends where
1221 2012-02-13 20:44:36 <cjd> and yes ram might be cheap but processor cache space is not
1222 2012-02-13 20:44:48 <copumpkin> BlueMatt: certain kinds of Haskell arrays pack arrays of booleans
1223 2012-02-13 20:44:55 <Diablo-D3> fucking faggots at freeode
1224 2012-02-13 20:44:57 <copumpkin> but it depends what you want from them
1225 2012-02-13 20:45:05 <copumpkin> sometimes it's faster to use unpacked ones
1226 2012-02-13 20:45:06 <sipa> STL's vector<bool> uses 1 bit per element, iirc
1227 2012-02-13 20:45:07 <BlueMatt> sipa: ok, but thats not really one boolean per bit, since you are doing 8 booleans per byte
1228 2012-02-13 20:45:07 <helo> they do love the cock
1229 2012-02-13 20:45:25 <BlueMatt> sipa: ok, stl vector wins there then
1230 2012-02-13 20:45:34 <Diablo-D3> anyhow, as I was saying
1231 2012-02-13 20:45:41 <Diablo-D3> java is dead to me
1232 2012-02-13 20:45:44 <BlueMatt> still, I dont think there are any languages that actually have 1 bit/boolean if you arent packing many booleans
1233 2012-02-13 20:45:47 <Diablo-D3> I just cant deal with all the stupid people that use it
1234 2012-02-13 20:46:01 <copumpkin> BlueMatt: well, considering it's not possible to address single bits on most architectures, that doesn't surprise me :)
1235 2012-02-13 20:46:09 <sipa> BlueMatt: you can't or you lose alignment
1236 2012-02-13 20:46:26 <copumpkin> BlueMatt: however, in many assemblies, you might consider status bits as having one bit per boolean
1237 2012-02-13 20:46:33 <copumpkin> something like the overflow bit
1238 2012-02-13 20:46:33 <BlueMatt> copumpkin: exactly, so complaining about bit = 4 bytes and saying "boolean == 1 bit" is invalid
1239 2012-02-13 20:46:36 <BlueMatt> (is my entire point)
1240 2012-02-13 20:46:47 <copumpkin> yeah
1241 2012-02-13 20:46:51 <cjd> once you start doing list.sort(function(a,b) { return a.val - b.val });  it's really hard to keep on liking the "everything is an object" java world
1242 2012-02-13 20:46:53 <Diablo-D3> erm
1243 2012-02-13 20:46:59 <Diablo-D3> boolean == 32 bits. clearly.
1244 2012-02-13 20:47:00 <copumpkin> you could store it in 1 byte, but then you lose alignment for some things
1245 2012-02-13 20:47:10 <copumpkin> so most people just throw it in a native word
1246 2012-02-13 20:47:12 <BlueMatt> yea
1247 2012-02-13 20:47:19 <luke-jr> [15:38:28] <Diablo-D3> java is dead to me
1248 2012-02-13 20:47:21 <luke-jr> troll?
1249 2012-02-13 20:47:43 <theymos> [19/08/2010 02:19:36] <Diablo-D3> aceat64: well, it'd be nice if bitcoin was rewritten in java
1250 2012-02-13 20:47:44 <theymos> :D
1251 2012-02-13 20:47:51 <chmod755> LOL
1252 2012-02-13 20:48:01 <helo> wow nice logfu
1253 2012-02-13 20:48:01 <BlueMatt> heh
1254 2012-02-13 20:48:02 <Diablo-D3> theymos: yeah, and now I no longer give a fuck about java
1255 2012-02-13 20:48:02 <copumpkin> haskell's clearly where it's at
1256 2012-02-13 20:48:07 <Diablo-D3> I just cant deal with it anymore
1257 2012-02-13 20:48:12 <Diablo-D3> the language itself is great
1258 2012-02-13 20:48:16 * copumpkin coughs
1259 2012-02-13 20:48:27 <Diablo-D3> but Im sure as fuck not going to write everything want myself so I can avoid importing stupidity
1260 2012-02-13 20:48:36 <Diablo-D3> if Im going to do that, Ill rewrite everything in C
1261 2012-02-13 20:48:37 <cjd> hahaha
1262 2012-02-13 20:48:48 <helo> we should all aspire to judge languages not based on their merits
1263 2012-02-13 20:49:10 <Diablo-D3> helo: yeah, like coding in a vacuum ever helped anyone
1264 2012-02-13 20:49:14 <Diablo-D3> [03:41:18] <s3rk0n> ii kik u now baibai
1265 2012-02-13 20:49:22 <Diablo-D3> [03:41:30] --- [s3rk0n] (~serkon@gateway/tor-sasl/s3rk0n) : serkon
1266 2012-02-13 20:49:22 <Diablo-D3> [03:41:30] --- [s3rk0n] asimov.freenode.net :TX, USA
1267 2012-02-13 20:49:22 <Diablo-D3> [03:41:30] --- [s3rk0n] is logged in as s3rk0n
1268 2012-02-13 20:49:22 <Diablo-D3> [03:41:30] --- [s3rk0n] End of WHOIS list.
1269 2012-02-13 20:49:40 <Diablo-D3> [03:41:36] <Diablo-D3> dude, no one believes you.
1270 2012-02-13 20:49:40 <Diablo-D3> privmsg is wonderful
1271 2012-02-13 20:49:58 <cjd> for my project in C I wrote everything myself
1272 2012-02-13 20:50:06 <cjd> so it all sucks but my bugs are mine :)
1273 2012-02-13 20:50:39 <chmod755> cjd: develop your own bugs?
1274 2012-02-13 20:50:51 <cjd> yes, and very carefully
1275 2012-02-13 20:51:13 <TD> lol theymos wins
1276 2012-02-13 20:51:56 <cjd> IMO C++'s constructor/destructor consept is kind of broken and garbage collection can never be smart enough to be fast
1277 2012-02-13 20:52:14 <cjd> C's memory leaking pattern is obviously broken
1278 2012-02-13 20:52:29 <BlueMatt> lets face it, every language is broken
1279 2012-02-13 20:52:35 <BlueMatt> we should all go back to punch cards
1280 2012-02-13 20:52:35 <TD> GC can be fast
1281 2012-02-13 20:52:43 <TD> unreal engine uses it for its core (C++) heap
1282 2012-02-13 20:52:53 <TD> does a mark/sweep GC fast enough to keep a stable 60fps
1283 2012-02-13 20:53:03 <cjd> if you could tell GC what you meant to so then it could be much faster
1284 2012-02-13 20:53:03 <TD> of course that takes care and recognition that objects aren't free
1285 2012-02-13 20:53:07 <luke-jr> GC is a joke
1286 2012-02-13 20:53:09 <luke-jr> just free properly
1287 2012-02-13 20:53:24 <TD> "just free properly" is the cause of some truly wonderous hacks over the years
1288 2012-02-13 20:53:38 * TD is very glad bitcoin is written in c++
1289 2012-02-13 20:54:07 m00p has joined
1290 2012-02-13 20:54:15 <sipa> i'm quite amazed that bitcoin manages to have so little memory management problems
1291 2012-02-13 20:54:56 <TD> modern c++ manages to avoid most of them. the biggest problems we have at work tend to be about uninitialized variables
1292 2012-02-13 20:55:16 <TD> when memory leaks/corruptions occur it's almost always due to questionable combining of multi-threading and cross-thread callbacks
1293 2012-02-13 20:55:16 <sipa> yup!
1294 2012-02-13 20:55:22 <helo> python when programmer time is important, c/c++ when execution time is important... run like hell when memory usage is important
1295 2012-02-13 20:55:39 <cjd> my solution is an allocator structure, allocators can allocate, fork off child allocators and free, when an allocator is freed, all of it's memory, all of it's children and all of their memory are freed.
1296 2012-02-13 20:55:39 <TD> python is a win for programmer time when the project/teams are small
1297 2012-02-13 20:55:58 <TD> once it gets large it gets too hard for new people to understand pieces of code in isolation and you begin to write python as if it was c++ to combat that
1298 2012-02-13 20:56:00 <cjd> s/are/is/
1299 2012-02-13 20:56:11 * TD had to debug some giant python contraptions before, c++ was much easier
1300 2012-02-13 20:56:21 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1301 2012-02-13 20:56:23 <TD> cjd: yeah that's quite common. objective-c relies on that
1302 2012-02-13 20:56:47 <cjd> I don't see much use for either garbage collection or destructors
1303 2012-02-13 20:57:08 <cjd> it actually makes C quite friendly in my experience
1304 2012-02-13 20:57:14 <TD> GC simplifies a lot of things. especially when threads are involved
1305 2012-02-13 20:57:27 <TD> i much prefer GCd to not, but it's nice to have RAII too. as usual D hits a great balance
1306 2012-02-13 20:57:32 <TD> i just wish D[2] was actually usable
1307 2012-02-13 20:57:36 <cjd> oh also you can hook functions to the allocator's free operation
1308 2012-02-13 20:57:40 <TD> it'd be my perfect language if the toolchain and libraries weren't so flaky
1309 2012-02-13 20:58:06 <gmaxwell> TD: D^3 perhaps.
1310 2012-02-13 20:58:29 <cjd> so I have libevent timeouts and stuff which are cancelled onFree()
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1312 2012-02-13 20:59:39 <cjd> the only bug I have right now it my total memory consumption meter which is in the root allocator seems to be dropping until it becomes negative :/
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1327 2012-02-13 21:18:10 <helo> self optimizing, nice
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1352 2012-02-13 21:54:35 <Diablo-D3> well
1353 2012-02-13 21:54:37 <Diablo-D3> that was fun
1354 2012-02-13 21:56:51 <Diablo-D3> man fucking ISP
1355 2012-02-13 21:57:02 booo has joined
1356 2012-02-13 21:57:21 <Diablo-D3> I missed out on trolling that douchebag
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1366 2012-02-13 22:13:08 <BlueMatt> wtf? apparently bitcoin is causing a segfault in libQtGui.so which kills my Xserv...
1367 2012-02-13 22:13:27 <Diablo-D3> lolqt
1368 2012-02-13 22:15:01 <luke-jr> wtf
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1370 2012-02-13 22:15:20 <BlueMatt> well half-killing x, it doesnt actually die, mouse still moves, but nothing else works
1371 2012-02-13 22:15:32 <BlueMatt> no clicking no window refresh, etc
1372 2012-02-13 22:15:45 <BlueMatt> also, cntl-alt-f1-6 doesnt open a terminal when that happens...
1373 2012-02-13 22:15:55 <BlueMatt> so, maybe its not x, but kernel?
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1375 2012-02-13 22:16:04 <Diablo-D3> hrm
1376 2012-02-13 22:16:08 tower has joined
1377 2012-02-13 22:16:11 <Diablo-D3> dunno, it shouldnt do that
1378 2012-02-13 22:16:17 <BlueMatt> or maybe the qt segfault is a result of some other underlying cause
1379 2012-02-13 22:16:32 <BlueMatt> (probably more likely, but then what is the cause that doesnt print to syslog?)
1380 2012-02-13 22:17:21 <luke-jr> is X eating CPU?
1381 2012-02-13 22:17:28 <BlueMatt> no way to tell after it happens
1382 2012-02-13 22:17:33 <BlueMatt> all I can do is REISUB
1383 2012-02-13 22:18:17 <Diablo-D3> ssh in
1384 2012-02-13 22:18:27 <BlueMatt> from a computer I dont have
1385 2012-02-13 22:18:49 <BlueMatt> also, its pretty erratic, not something that I can reproduce...
1386 2012-02-13 22:19:01 pickett has joined
1387 2012-02-13 22:19:02 <BlueMatt> though Ive only seen it when benchmarking bitcoin on tmpfs
1388 2012-02-13 22:19:45 _Fireball has quit (Quit:  HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Like it?  Visit #hydrairc on EFNet)
1389 2012-02-13 22:20:37 <BlueMatt> (could obv be a coincidence from high cpu <-> ram activity)
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1393 2012-02-13 22:29:11 <BlueMatt_> ffs
1394 2012-02-13 22:29:15 <BlueMatt_> I guess I can no longer benchmark bitcoin...
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1398 2012-02-13 22:30:27 * BlueMatt goes to run memtest86 for a few hours...
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1413 2012-02-13 23:05:39 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gavinandresen opened issue 832 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/832>
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1418 2012-02-13 23:10:43 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gavinandresen opened issue 833 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/833>
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