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  58 2012-02-14 02:01:47 <LMLeverage> hey quick question if anyone has a sec
  59 2012-02-14 02:01:57 <LMLeverage> I'm trying to find my private key and it seems to have disappeared from my wallet.dat file
  60 2012-02-14 02:02:06 <LMLeverage> running bitcoin-qt on a mac
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  62 2012-02-14 02:02:38 <LMLeverage> dumped the file with pywallet, but still nothing related to the hex or base64 key... just my default public key and some random pool data
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  67 2012-02-14 02:11:58 <BlueMatt> a. is your wallet encrypted?
  68 2012-02-14 02:12:15 <BlueMatt> b. Im not familiar with pywallet's output format, what does bitcointools show you?
  69 2012-02-14 02:12:43 <BlueMatt> or, does pywallet usually show privkeys in its dump?
  70 2012-02-14 02:14:01 <BlueMatt> LMLeverage: ^
  71 2012-02-14 02:14:21 <LMLeverage> yes the wallet is encrypted
  72 2012-02-14 02:14:25 <BlueMatt> also, is bitcoin allowing you to spend from the privkey?
  73 2012-02-14 02:14:32 <LMLeverage> and pywallet usually does show private keys as hex
  74 2012-02-14 02:14:50 <LMLeverage> it's still "synchronizing with network"
  75 2012-02-14 02:15:02 <LMLeverage> I've verified the transaction though and confirmed I should have 52BTC, just waiting for the client to register
  76 2012-02-14 02:16:23 <LMLeverage> I assumed it might be an issue due to the encryption, but I can't seem to find a way to decrypt the wallet using bitcoin-qt
  77 2012-02-14 02:17:04 <BlueMatt> I dont think you can do it manually, unless you are sending coins
  78 2012-02-14 02:17:09 <BlueMatt> though you can via RPC
  79 2012-02-14 02:17:53 <LMLeverage> not quite sure I understand--are you saying that I have to simulate a transaction to force decryption, then dump it from memory?
  80 2012-02-14 02:18:44 <BlueMatt> the only way to make bitcoin-qt decrypt the wallet is to make a transaction
  81 2012-02-14 02:19:22 <BlueMatt> but there is no way to drop a transaction from the wallet after it has been created (unless you make sure bitcoin-qt is not connected to the network, create the tx, stop bitcoin-qt, use bitcointools/pywallet/etc to remove the tx, the restart bitcoin-qt)
  82 2012-02-14 02:19:46 <LMLeverage> and assuming my client still shows me as having 0.00 BTC?
  83 2012-02-14 02:20:13 <BlueMatt> then you wait until it thinks you have more ;)
  84 2012-02-14 02:20:18 <LMLeverage> it's taking an insanely long time to sync the block chain despite port forwarding and killing all other traffic on the network
  85 2012-02-14 02:20:21 <LMLeverage> been 3 days already
  86 2012-02-14 02:20:25 <LMLeverage> less than 25%
  87 2012-02-14 02:20:49 <BlueMatt> chain sync has little to do with your network speed
  88 2012-02-14 02:20:52 <BlueMatt> its mostly hdd speed
  89 2012-02-14 02:20:59 copumpkin has joined
  90 2012-02-14 02:21:00 <BlueMatt> (and some cpu)
  91 2012-02-14 02:21:04 <BlueMatt> you are using 0.5.3, right?
  92 2012-02-14 02:21:07 <BlueMatt> s/.3/.2/
  93 2012-02-14 02:21:16 <LMLeverage> hmm that doesn't make sense given I'm running an i7 quad core & 750GB SSD
  94 2012-02-14 02:21:25 <BlueMatt> no, that doesnt
  95 2012-02-14 02:21:25 <LMLeverage> 0.5.2-beta
  96 2012-02-14 02:21:30 <BlueMatt> yea...
  97 2012-02-14 02:21:47 <BlueMatt> what kind of cpu/disk usage is bitcoin doing?
  98 2012-02-14 02:21:57 <olp> my client syncs in like 5 hours. Good?
  99 2012-02-14 02:22:24 <LMLeverage> ~10-15% CPU with occasional spikes to 60-80%
 100 2012-02-14 02:22:25 <LMLeverage> 10 threads
 101 2012-02-14 02:22:32 <LMLeverage> 116mb ram
 102 2012-02-14 02:22:35 <BlueMatt> sounds right, what about disk usage?
 103 2012-02-14 02:22:37 <LMLeverage> not sure about disk access
 104 2012-02-14 02:22:48 <BlueMatt> also, how much free mem do you have (ie that the os will use as disk cache)?
 105 2012-02-14 02:23:20 <BlueMatt> 10-15% as in 10-15% of a core, or of all 8 cores?
 106 2012-02-14 02:23:23 <gmaxwell> I'd assume sync being that slow is sign of a failing disk really.
 107 2012-02-14 02:23:27 <LMLeverage> 5GB RAM free
 108 2012-02-14 02:23:30 <gmaxwell> or a broken filesystem
 109 2012-02-14 02:23:32 <LMLeverage> 7.9 active
 110 2012-02-14 02:23:34 <LMLeverage> shit
 111 2012-02-14 02:23:44 <BlueMatt> what os?
 112 2012-02-14 02:23:53 <LMLeverage> and I'm not sure BlueMatt, that's the number I'm getting from Activity Monitor
 113 2012-02-14 02:23:54 <LMLeverage> Lion
 114 2012-02-14 02:23:55 <BlueMatt> also, what kind of free space on the ssd?
 115 2012-02-14 02:24:02 <LMLeverage> 170GB
 116 2012-02-14 02:24:06 <BlueMatt> damn...
 117 2012-02-14 02:24:10 <gmaxwell> oh ssd.. some ssds have stupidly slow writes..
 118 2012-02-14 02:24:13 <gmaxwell> like 100kb/s.
 119 2012-02-14 02:24:30 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: no recent ssds?
 120 2012-02-14 02:24:45 <LMLeverage> ok it's been running at 113% CPU now for the past 30 seconds
 121 2012-02-14 02:24:57 <gmaxwell> Even recent ones. If you're not careful shopping you can get something that looks like a usbstick with a SATA interface. :)
 122 2012-02-14 02:25:17 <gmaxwell> though even that isn't consistent with 25%... IIRC it slows down later than that.
 123 2012-02-14 02:25:33 <LMLeverage> is 0.5.3 released?
 124 2012-02-14 02:25:49 <BlueMatt> no
 125 2012-02-14 02:25:51 <gmaxwell> 25% is 41k.. there weren't any txn there.
 126 2012-02-14 02:26:02 sacarlson has joined
 127 2012-02-14 02:26:11 <BlueMatt> what block count do you see when you hover over the bottom right icons?
 128 2012-02-14 02:26:11 <gmaxwell> LMLeverage: can you look at your debug.log and see if there is anything interesting in there?
 129 2012-02-14 02:26:22 <gmaxwell> oh good call. estimate might be off.
 130 2012-02-14 02:26:42 <BlueMatt> well, that plus its 25% since last start
 131 2012-02-14 02:26:42 sacredchao has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 132 2012-02-14 02:26:42 <LMLeverage> anything in particular I should be looking for?
 133 2012-02-14 02:27:03 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: oh 25% since last restart.. thats less crazy then.
 134 2012-02-14 02:27:31 <gmaxwell> LMLeverage: first do the mouseover. As far as the log... usually bad things are pretty obvious.
 135 2012-02-14 02:28:09 <LMLeverage> downloaded 141073
 136 2012-02-14 02:28:18 sacredchao has joined
 137 2012-02-14 02:28:30 <LMLeverage> as for the log, I've got a lot of intermittent ERRORs like this:
 138 2012-02-14 02:28:35 <LMLeverage> ERROR: ConnectInputs() : 89cd3a2bdc mapTransactions prev not found fedf104e90
 139 2012-02-14 02:28:35 <LMLeverage> ERROR: AcceptToMemoryPool() : ConnectInputs failed 89cd3a2bdc
 140 2012-02-14 02:28:54 <gmaxwell> Ok, thouse are usual while you're syncing
 141 2012-02-14 02:29:00 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,blocks
 142 2012-02-14 02:29:01 <gribble> 166705
 143 2012-02-14 02:29:20 <BlueMatt> well youre a whole lot further than 25%
 144 2012-02-14 02:29:37 <BlueMatt> but only getting 25% of the way in 24 hours...
 145 2012-02-14 02:29:41 <LMLeverage> hmm not according to the progress bar
 146 2012-02-14 02:29:43 <gmaxwell> yea. 84%
 147 2012-02-14 02:29:58 <gmaxwell> LMLeverage: It's confusing— it's telling you how much you've gone from where you started to the top.
 148 2012-02-14 02:29:59 <LMLeverage> and also that number seems to be increasing extremely slowly--around 2/minute
 149 2012-02-14 02:30:07 <LMLeverage> ahh
 150 2012-02-14 02:30:13 <BlueMatt> yea, 2/minute is broken
 151 2012-02-14 02:30:17 <gmaxwell> LMLeverage: the next version of bitcoin switches back to the absolute percentage.
 152 2012-02-14 02:30:26 <LMLeverage> excellent
 153 2012-02-14 02:31:16 <LMLeverage> thanks for the help guys, guess I just wait for this thing to finish syncing
 154 2012-02-14 02:31:40 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: think we should ask him to turn on logtimestamps=1 and restart to get some actual timings?
 155 2012-02-14 02:31:41 <BlueMatt> ooo, osx has iotop installed by default
 156 2012-02-14 02:31:55 <BlueMatt> LMLeverage: what does iotop show you (when run in terminal)?
 157 2012-02-14 02:32:05 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: I'm curious if its the validation thats slow or if he's managing to pull from a peer on the moon.
 158 2012-02-14 02:33:10 <BlueMatt> that could be useful too, LMLeverage if you feel like helping us debug your slow connection, open terminal, drag the bitcoin-qt app bundle onto terminal (it should paste the path to the bundle into the terminal window), add "/Contents/MacOS/Bitcoin-Qt -logtimestamps=1" and hit enter
 159 2012-02-14 02:33:18 <LMLeverage> 2012 Feb 13 21:25:52,  load: 1.74,  disk_r:    960 KB,  disk_w:   2892 KB
 160 2012-02-14 02:33:18 <LMLeverage>   UID    PID   PPID CMD              DEVICE  MAJ MIN D            BYTES
 161 2012-02-14 02:33:18 <LMLeverage>     0      1      0 launchd          ??       14   1 R            24576
 162 2012-02-14 02:33:19 <LMLeverage>   501    297    122 Adium            ??       14   1 W            36864
 163 2012-02-14 02:33:19 <LMLeverage>   501   4625    122 Bitcoin-Qt       ??       14   1 R            40960
 164 2012-02-14 02:33:19 <LMLeverage>   501   4625    122 Bitcoin-Qt       ??       14   1 W           315392
 165 2012-02-14 02:33:20 <LMLeverage>   501   2667    122 uTorrent         ??       14   1 R           917504
 166 2012-02-14 02:33:20 <LMLeverage>     0      0      0                  ??       14   1            1119744
 167 2012-02-14 02:33:20 <LMLeverage>     0      1      0 launchd          ??       14   1 W          2658304
 168 2012-02-14 02:34:04 <BlueMatt> wtf is launchd writing that much to disk for?
 169 2012-02-14 02:34:20 <BlueMatt> also, pid 0 writing that much???
 170 2012-02-14 02:34:38 <LMLeverage> seems a little strange--wish I knew more about what these metrics actually meant
 171 2012-02-14 02:34:48 <gmaxwell> those are probably since start?
 172 2012-02-14 02:34:52 <BlueMatt> maybe
 173 2012-02-14 02:34:52 <gmaxwell> or are they moving?
 174 2012-02-14 02:35:14 JRWR has joined
 175 2012-02-14 02:35:16 <BlueMatt> ooo, ok better option: use fs_usage instead of iotop
 176 2012-02-14 02:35:17 <Diablo-D3> blueMatt;: pid 0 is the kernel.
 177 2012-02-14 02:35:18 marf_away has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 178 2012-02-14 02:35:21 <LMLeverage> yeah they're moving
 179 2012-02-14 02:35:22 <LMLeverage> k
 180 2012-02-14 02:35:25 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: yea, so why is it writing so much?
 181 2012-02-14 02:35:34 <gmaxwell> LMLeverage: are they only going up?
 182 2012-02-14 02:35:35 <Diablo-D3> =|
 183 2012-02-14 02:35:52 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: counting writing out dirty buffers probably.
 184 2012-02-14 02:36:04 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: probably...
 185 2012-02-14 02:36:24 <BlueMatt> LMLeverage: also, if you are going to paste more then one or two lines, please use a site like pastebin.com to upload them and paste the link in here
 186 2012-02-14 02:36:33 <LMLeverage> will do
 187 2012-02-14 02:36:47 <LMLeverage> running fs_usage now, then helping debug the slow connection
 188 2012-02-14 02:37:01 BLZNGPNGN has joined
 189 2012-02-14 02:37:10 <BlueMatt> from iotop osx man page: " BYTES  total size of operations, bytes"
 190 2012-02-14 02:37:26 <BlueMatt> not very useful...
 191 2012-02-14 02:38:38 BLZNGPNGN has quit (2!~kvirc@S0106602ad0726c1f.vf.shawcable.net|Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 192 2012-02-14 02:39:12 <LMLeverage> wow copying the entire fs_usage output crashed chrome
 193 2012-02-14 02:39:35 <BlueMatt> heh, wow...
 194 2012-02-14 02:39:50 <BlueMatt> just copy lines that have particularly high numbers, or mention bitcoin
 195 2012-02-14 02:39:57 <LMLeverage> anyway it's mostly mtmd, uTorrent, Chrome, Dropbox, backups, dbfseventsd mds
 196 2012-02-14 02:39:58 <BlueMatt> (or all of it if you dont feel like parsing)
 197 2012-02-14 02:40:00 <LMLeverage> k
 198 2012-02-14 02:40:17 <BlueMatt> low bitcoin...yea maybe you are downloading from a peer on the moon...
 199 2012-02-14 02:42:17 <LMLeverage> seems like the only large #s are from Finder
 200 2012-02-14 02:42:24 <BlueMatt> ...
 201 2012-02-14 02:42:25 <LMLeverage> is there any way to run the command with a filter for anything below 1?
 202 2012-02-14 02:42:31 <BlueMatt> nfc
 203 2012-02-14 02:42:38 paraipan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 204 2012-02-14 02:42:40 <BlueMatt> Id say move to the logtimestamps option
 205 2012-02-14 02:42:43 <LMLeverage> and that: 21:29:26  select                                         1.719942 W usbmuxd
 206 2012-02-14 02:42:44 <LMLeverage> k
 207 2012-02-14 02:43:08 <BlueMatt> usbmuxd is iPod/iPhone service iirc
 208 2012-02-14 02:44:09 <LMLeverage> hmm for some reason the command doesn't seem to be working
 209 2012-02-14 02:44:15 <LMLeverage> -bash: /Applications/Bitcoin-Qt.app: is a directory
 210 2012-02-14 02:44:40 Sedra- has joined
 211 2012-02-14 02:44:42 JRWR has quit (Disconnected by services)
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 213 2012-02-14 02:45:03 paraipan has joined
 214 2012-02-14 02:45:08 <gmaxwell> damnit.
 215 2012-02-14 02:45:08 <gmaxwell> -rw-------. 1 bitcoin02 bitcoin02 4.8G Feb 13 09:58 debug.log
 216 2012-02-14 02:45:14 <BlueMatt> damn...
 217 2012-02-14 02:45:32 <BlueMatt> LMLeverage: should be /Applications/Bitcoin-Qt.app/Contents/MacOS/Bitcoin-Qt -logtimestamps=1
 218 2012-02-14 02:45:45 <BlueMatt> (with no spaces between .app and /Contents)
 219 2012-02-14 02:46:22 <lianj> finder just tricks you into thinking .app's are one file
 220 2012-02-14 02:46:23 temp42123 has quit (Client Quit)
 221 2012-02-14 02:46:36 <BlueMatt> yep
 222 2012-02-14 02:46:43 <LMLeverage> ok loading up now
 223 2012-02-14 02:46:51 <LMLeverage> timestamps logged in debug.log?
 224 2012-02-14 02:47:02 <BlueMatt> yep, thats what that command does
 225 2012-02-14 02:47:15 Sedra has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 226 2012-02-14 02:47:17 <BlueMatt> (also, the restart may very well fix the slowness to begin with...)
 227 2012-02-14 02:49:41 <LMLeverage> http://pastebin.com/my18uPGQ
 228 2012-02-14 02:50:27 <LMLeverage> wow hard to believe, finally killed Chrome--only 3 tabs and it was taking up nearly 4GB of RAM
 229 2012-02-14 02:50:33 <LMLeverage> *windows not tabs
 230 2012-02-14 02:50:59 Dshells has joined
 231 2012-02-14 02:51:33 <LMLeverage> I feel like ever since I started developing Facebook apps and had 5+ windows open my computer has slowed to a crawl...must be some horrid memory leaks in their JS
 232 2012-02-14 02:51:46 <LMLeverage> honestly that's probably the reason for the abnormal disk usage
 233 2012-02-14 02:51:47 <BlueMatt> heh, probably
 234 2012-02-14 02:52:29 <BlueMatt> hmm, doesnt seem too terribly slow...
 235 2012-02-14 02:53:00 a_meteorite has joined
 236 2012-02-14 02:53:01 a_meteorite has quit (Client Quit)
 237 2012-02-14 02:53:02 <LMLeverage> maybe it's sped up a little since the restart
 238 2012-02-14 02:53:15 <BlueMatt> yea, it was possibly the peer
 239 2012-02-14 02:53:32 <BlueMatt> maybe they are behind a 24k modem...
 240 2012-02-14 02:54:01 <LMLeverage> could be me too--I'm working on a hotel network right now and they've got all kinds of weird traffic restrictions on the AP
 241 2012-02-14 02:54:08 <LMLeverage> managed to get rid of most of them but you never know...
 242 2012-02-14 02:54:15 <BlueMatt> maybe they are shaping port 8333
 243 2012-02-14 02:54:26 <BlueMatt> (you should use a vpn ;) )
 244 2012-02-14 02:54:31 <LMLeverage> was just about to say that
 245 2012-02-14 02:54:34 <LMLeverage> I tried connecting through my VPN
 246 2012-02-14 02:54:36 <LMLeverage> nothing was different
 247 2012-02-14 02:54:39 <LMLeverage> which I found strange
 248 2012-02-14 02:54:48 <LMLeverage> and it gets great throughput
 249 2012-02-14 02:54:48 <BlueMatt> now that I find strange
 250 2012-02-14 02:55:29 <LMLeverage> another random question--is Bitcoin-Qt built in Objective C or something else?
 251 2012-02-14 02:55:34 <BlueMatt> C++
 252 2012-02-14 02:55:53 <BlueMatt> not many people write cross-platform apps in objc
 253 2012-02-14 02:56:02 <BlueMatt> (not that its impossible, but its a mostly mac language)
 254 2012-02-14 02:56:08 <LMLeverage> true, it's mainly used in conjunction with the Cocoa library
 255 2012-02-14 02:56:16 <BlueMatt> yep
 256 2012-02-14 02:56:17 <LMLeverage> makes me wish I learned C first
 257 2012-02-14 02:56:44 * BlueMatt didnt know C/C++ before starting on bitcoin
 258 2012-02-14 02:57:19 <LMLeverage> easy to pick up?  Main background is in server side (PHP) & JS but I picked up Objective C reasonably well in a few months
 259 2012-02-14 02:57:23 <BlueMatt> LMLeverage: so get started, write a bitcoin patch ;)
 260 2012-02-14 02:57:33 <LMLeverage> haha I'm tempted to try
 261 2012-02-14 02:57:49 underscor has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 262 2012-02-14 02:58:11 Dumb_ has quit ()
 263 2012-02-14 02:58:22 <BlueMatt> meh, it wasnt bad for me, but my background was mostly java and scripting languages (php included)
 264 2012-02-14 02:58:30 <luke-jr> cool, we're gonna celebrate St. Valentine's feast day
 265 2012-02-14 02:58:38 <BlueMatt> we?
 266 2012-02-14 02:58:47 <luke-jr> Gavin put it on the meeting agenda
 267 2012-02-14 02:58:52 <BlueMatt> oh, heh nice
 268 2012-02-14 02:59:00 <BlueMatt> also, oh there is a metting tomorrow?
 269 2012-02-14 02:59:05 <luke-jr> see email :p
 270 2012-02-14 02:59:08 Cablesaurus has joined
 271 2012-02-14 02:59:08 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
 272 2012-02-14 02:59:08 Cablesaurus has joined
 273 2012-02-14 02:59:27 <BlueMatt> oh, hadnt scrolled down to the other workspace
 274 2012-02-14 02:59:57 MT`BNC has joined
 275 2012-02-14 03:00:28 * luke-jr begins mining a vanity addrt
 276 2012-02-14 03:00:30 <luke-jr> addr*
 277 2012-02-14 03:00:33 <BlueMatt> "Then when we're done talking tech we can all send each other bitcoins with addresses that are cute Valentine's day messages..."
 278 2012-02-14 03:00:37 <BlueMatt> whats the best vanity addr gen now?
 279 2012-02-14 03:00:48 <luke-jr> dunno, I just use an old vanitygen build
 280 2012-02-14 03:01:06 underscor has joined
 281 2012-02-14 03:01:10 <luke-jr> oh good, only 15 mins avg
 282 2012-02-14 03:01:12 <BlueMatt> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=25804.0
 283 2012-02-14 03:01:16 <BlueMatt> thats much, much faster
 284 2012-02-14 03:01:32 <luke-jr> that's vanitygen :P
 285 2012-02-14 03:01:51 <BlueMatt> oh, I thought you meant vanitygen patch that gavin wrote
 286 2012-02-14 03:01:55 <luke-jr> 415 Kk/s
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 291 2012-02-14 03:06:29 <luke-jr> http://oi56.tinypic.com/9iybsl.jpg
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 301 2012-02-14 03:13:08 <NxTitle> MagicalTux: nice internet you got there :P
 302 2012-02-14 03:13:20 <MagicalTux> NxTitle: getting out of a ddos
 303 2012-02-14 03:13:26 <NxTitle> oh, shite
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 313 2012-02-14 03:24:22 <cjd> does anyone have any decent numbers on vanitygen keys per second vs. bitcoin hashes per second for a given card?
 314 2012-02-14 03:25:17 <BlueMatt> has anyone written vanitygen for gpus?
 315 2012-02-14 03:25:25 <BlueMatt> also, seriously who the hell was that damn bored
 316 2012-02-14 03:25:56 <cjd> according to the forum post... "MD Radeon 58XX, 68XX GPUs: up to 23.5 Mkey/s."
 317 2012-02-14 03:26:18 <cjd> I don't really get it either but I am curious about performance of point addition
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 321 2012-02-14 03:31:47 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: vanitygen supports OpenCL, but it's not much faster than CPUs
 322 2012-02-14 03:32:02 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: hahah
 323 2012-02-14 03:32:08 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: you're behind the times.
 324 2012-02-14 03:32:08 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: FWIW, the guy is talking on IRC now
 325 2012-02-14 03:32:12 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: PM
 326 2012-02-14 03:32:13 <gmaxwell> It's _much_ faster now.
 327 2012-02-14 03:32:26 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: e.g. 18MH/s on a 5870.
 328 2012-02-14 03:32:34 <gmaxwell> er MK/s I guess.
 329 2012-02-14 03:32:43 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: oh
 330 2012-02-14 03:32:53 <luke-jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/earlyshare.json for testing miners
 331 2012-02-14 03:33:02 <luke-jr> will find the share within 1 second at 16 kH/s
 332 2012-02-14 03:33:44 <gmaxwell> cjd: it's not just point addition... sha256/ripemd160 and base58 conversion
 333 2012-02-14 03:33:54 <cjd> indeed
 334 2012-02-14 03:34:06 <cjd> point addition looks to be pretty fast though
 335 2012-02-14 03:35:12 <gmaxwell> fast because they can just step one at a time... doesn't mean e.g. that signature validation would be fast, alas.
 336 2012-02-14 03:36:07 <cjd> yea, I'm using 128 high bits of a key for the ipv6 address and trying to get an idea of how hard it is to bruit force
 337 2012-02-14 03:37:31 <gmaxwell> erp. This doesn't sound like a good idea.
 338 2012-02-14 03:37:57 Sedra has joined
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 340 2012-02-14 03:38:50 <gmaxwell> I am normally uneasy with using anything 'structured' as a ecdsa private key, for fear that there would be some massively faster attack if the attacker knows enough of the exact bits.
 341 2012-02-14 03:39:08 davex__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 342 2012-02-14 03:39:13 <cjd> naw, it's the hash of the public key
 343 2012-02-14 03:39:24 <cjd> otherwise you couldn't prove that it's valid traffic
 344 2012-02-14 03:40:17 <cjd> agreed though, private keys == follow the rules and understand what you can and can't expect from it
 345 2012-02-14 03:40:43 <gmaxwell> cjd: oh, what crazy thing are you doing? :)
 346 2012-02-14 03:41:00 <gmaxwell> in any case it doesn't matter what your operations are if it takes you 2^128 of the you're likely secure.
 347 2012-02-14 03:41:42 <cjd> that was my feeling, it's a routing scheme w/ crypto dervived ip addresses
 348 2012-02-14 03:41:45 splatster has joined
 349 2012-02-14 03:41:49 <BlueMatt> unless you can pack 2^127 of them in one cpu op ;)
 350 2012-02-14 03:42:08 <cjd> according to one person: the easiest ipv6 tunnel he's ever setup
 351 2012-02-14 03:42:50 <gmaxwell> cjd: IANA is gonna love you.
 352 2012-02-14 03:43:12 <cjd> http://image.bayimg.com/namekaadj.jpg <-- shot of the admin page showing nodes and links
 353 2012-02-14 03:43:14 <gmaxwell> (oh, ha, do you search to find an address with an acceptable prefix? 0_o interesting idea)
 354 2012-02-14 03:43:23 <cjd> yes
 355 2012-02-14 03:43:34 <cjd> but the prefix is 'fc' so it's a quick search
 356 2012-02-14 03:44:14 <cjd> only realized later that a last minute decision gave me 8 bits of extra strength
 357 2012-02-14 03:44:24 <cjd> was going to overwrite the first byte
 358 2012-02-14 03:44:53 <gmaxwell> well, not really.
 359 2012-02-14 03:45:39 <cjd> hmm indeed the birthday keyspace is smal but the attacks are a bit more expensive
 360 2012-02-14 03:45:42 <cjd> *small
 361 2012-02-14 03:46:43 <gmaxwell> cjd: no they aren't, really. In either case you're still trying to match 128 bits exactly. It doesn't matter if the first nibble came from the protocol or the address itself.
 362 2012-02-14 03:47:01 <gmaxwell> (and it weakens security against 'birthday' attacks)
 363 2012-02-14 03:47:14 <gmaxwell> But not smashing the whole ipv6 address space is worth a modest reduction.
 364 2012-02-14 03:47:26 <cjd> /nod
 365 2012-02-14 03:47:45 <cjd> handing us fc00::/8 was nice of them
 366 2012-02-14 03:48:05 <gmaxwell> You're aware of key recovery right?
 367 2012-02-14 03:48:23 <gmaxwell> (sounds like you're doing something that would benefit greatly from it)
 368 2012-02-14 03:48:25 <cjd> not sure what you mean by it
 369 2012-02-14 03:48:36 <cjd> so probably noy
 370 2012-02-14 03:48:39 <cjd> *not
 371 2012-02-14 03:48:42 <gmaxwell> cjd: does your system require the public key to be transmitted ever?
 372 2012-02-14 03:48:55 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 373 2012-02-14 03:49:05 <cjd> yea, it's exchanged in the handshake and when nodes do introduction
 374 2012-02-14 03:49:12 <gmaxwell> You can recover the ECDSA public key from a signature. You don't need to send the public key.
 375 2012-02-14 03:49:23 <cjd> ahh, that.
 376 2012-02-14 03:49:39 <gmaxwell> Recover it, hash it, compare to the hash. Party on.
 377 2012-02-14 03:49:43 <cjd> it's very nice but we do all ECDH
 378 2012-02-14 03:50:11 <gmaxwell> oh, you shouldn't be using the address keys for ecdh, you'll not have PFS that way. :(
 379 2012-02-14 03:50:50 <cjd> CryptoAuth handshake exchanges temp keys
 380 2012-02-14 03:51:12 <cjd> not sure if it helps a whole lot since scraping the handshake would give you the temp keys too
 381 2012-02-14 03:51:22 <gmaxwell> Yea. sounds pointless. :(
 382 2012-02-14 03:52:15 <gmaxwell> makes the long term address keys very attractive to steal, get a pair and decrypt all past and future connections, not just impersonate.
 383 2012-02-14 03:52:54 <gmaxwell> (and http://ed25519.cr.yp.to/ gives such fast signatures too)
 384 2012-02-14 03:53:18 <gmaxwell> (though it needs a minor modification for key recovery to work)
 385 2012-02-14 03:53:24 <cjd> hrm
 386 2012-02-14 03:53:31 * cjd is confusing himself
 387 2012-02-14 03:53:39 <cjd> temporary *public* keys
 388 2012-02-14 03:53:57 <gmaxwell> cjd: oh well thats fine, thats how one properly uses ECDH.
 389 2012-02-14 03:54:14 <gmaxwell> But how do you connect the address to the temporary public keys?
 390 2012-02-14 03:54:55 <cjd> when the first packet comes in you create a crypto auth connection for it
 391 2012-02-14 03:55:05 <cjd> anything which matches that connection gets fed through it
 392 2012-02-14 03:55:15 <cjd> you check the public key from that connection
 393 2012-02-14 03:55:49 <cjd> check the other end's perminent public key
 394 2012-02-14 03:56:50 <cjd> so you have memory exhaustion from starting lots of crypto connections instead
 395 2012-02-14 03:57:52 <gmaxwell> hm. you shouldn't— if you require everything needed to auth be in the first packet it can just be dropped and forgotten if not accepted... and to avoid computational attack you just rate limit accepting new connections.
 396 2012-02-14 03:58:33 <cjd> yeah, it's just +1 headache to think about
 397 2012-02-14 03:58:54 <cjd> I basicly took the "how it works" from curvecp and reimplemented it except sacrificing safety for speed.
 398 2012-02-14 03:59:19 <gmaxwell> that .. doesn't sound good.
 399 2012-02-14 03:59:33 <cjd> the first packets can also carry data so a tcp connection can still be setup in 1 2 roundtrips
 400 2012-02-14 03:59:44 <cjd> s/1//
 401 2012-02-14 03:59:57 <cjd> +wonkey mtu
 402 2012-02-14 04:01:23 <cjd> it's mostly little crap like nonces are 4 byte counters, when it rolls over it kills the connection
 403 2012-02-14 04:02:32 <gmaxwell> cjd: use a de bruijn sequence for a counter. :)
 404 2012-02-14 04:03:26 * cjd back to google
 405 2012-02-14 04:03:49 <gmaxwell> (I had a secure RTP like protocol that got at 24 bit nonce out of an 8 bit counter that way, but I never got around to coming up with a fast approach sutiable for scaling it to more realistic sizes)
 406 2012-02-14 04:04:52 <cjd> that is indeed interesting
 407 2012-02-14 04:05:22 pickett has joined
 408 2012-02-14 04:07:33 <cjd> 4 bytes are ok for most things and 2 bytes would be alignment hell - and I steal an extra bit based on whether or not "you" initiated the connection
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 410 2012-02-14 04:10:48 <gmaxwell> basically you can have a counter of n^2 size with only n.. and tolerate reordering upto ~n. IF you can come up with a fast sequence encoding and decoding scheme.
 411 2012-02-14 04:11:33 <TuxBlackEdo> any chance you guys can fix the bitcoin client so in the transaction history it shows when the transactions were made instead of when i opened the client to receive those updated transactions
 412 2012-02-14 04:11:46 <TuxBlackEdo> u know what i am talking about?
 413 2012-02-14 04:12:30 <MagicalTux> TuxBlackEdo: you probably mean "show the associated block's timestamp instead of the date the transaction was first seen"
 414 2012-02-14 04:12:30 <cjd> yeah, drops and reordering is what's making my head spin at the moment :)
 415 2012-02-14 04:12:37 <TuxBlackEdo> yes
 416 2012-02-14 04:12:43 <TuxBlackEdo> that's exactly what i meant
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 426 2012-02-14 04:24:10 <cjd> I suppose it makes the most sense to use a sliding window, add a little state on each end and never worry about nonces again
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 542 2012-02-14 07:28:36 <[Tycho]> Wow, someone redeemed my abandoned strange TX :)
 543 2012-02-14 07:29:08 b4epoche_ has joined
 544 2012-02-14 07:29:09 <Diablo-D3> ?
 545 2012-02-14 07:29:38 <[Tycho]> I wonder who did it.
 546 2012-02-14 07:30:00 <Diablo-D3> ?
 547 2012-02-14 07:30:05 <Joric> russians!
 548 2012-02-14 07:30:33 <[Tycho]> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/8c8baf2e0529c0193ad3a583306a16fcc3e9cd271ba625e12bfd74261a46ad7c
 549 2012-02-14 07:30:42 smickles is now known as idle!~michael@cpe-071-070-169-083.nc.res.rr.com|smickles
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 552 2012-02-14 07:30:59 <Diablo-D3> Type: Strange
 553 2012-02-14 07:31:00 <Diablo-D3> lol
 554 2012-02-14 07:32:44 <[Tycho]> Isn't it ?
 555 2012-02-14 07:34:10 <[Tycho]> Joric: blockchaininfo says "Dallas"
 556 2012-02-14 07:39:17 ThomasV has joined
 557 2012-02-14 07:40:26 * Ukto is in Dallas >,>
 558 2012-02-14 07:40:42 smickles is now known as smickles|idle
 559 2012-02-14 07:41:54 zeiris has joined
 560 2012-02-14 07:41:57 * Graet slaps Ukto 
 561 2012-02-14 07:44:00 <Ukto> wha? I didnt take it
 562 2012-02-14 07:45:00 <Graet> lol
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 578 2012-02-14 08:19:35 <finway> Is what makomk said true ?  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=63701.msg746206#msg746206
 579 2012-02-14 08:19:43 <finway> BIP 16 is going to be much more disruptive than advertised
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 590 2012-02-14 08:42:25 <finway> Where is everybody
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 618 2012-02-14 09:13:32 <finway> The bank sucks.
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 623 2012-02-14 09:18:01 <Graet> they start wandering in over the next few hours and it fires up around 5hours time when usa wake up :)
 624 2012-02-14 09:18:53 <finway> oh, i forgot that
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 627 2012-02-14 09:22:22 <Graet> :)
 628 2012-02-14 09:23:01 <Graet> which is bad, all the interesting conversation happens after midnight my tz lol
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 632 2012-02-14 09:31:39 <finway> where are you ?
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 634 2012-02-14 09:32:53 <Graet> western australia
 635 2012-02-14 09:33:02 <Graet> UTC +8
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 639 2012-02-14 09:36:12 <finway> oh, same as me.   China, utc+8
 640 2012-02-14 09:36:30 <Graet> :)
 641 2012-02-14 09:37:55 <finway> but different season
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 644 2012-02-14 09:42:46 <underscor> hf
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 704 2012-02-14 11:58:57 <r3sandy> sorry for the super noobie question
 705 2012-02-14 11:59:07 <r3sandy> but if i encrypt my wallet using the bitcoin client
 706 2012-02-14 11:59:14 <r3sandy> how do you unencrypt it?
 707 2012-02-14 11:59:22 * r3sandy dons firesuit
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 710 2012-02-14 12:02:38 <r3sandy> maybe the wrong channel to ask sorry.
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 756 2012-02-14 12:37:21 <sje> gmaxwell: i did a pull request for the backup function in gui
 757 2012-02-14 12:38:41 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sje397 opened pull request 834 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/834>
 758 2012-02-14 12:48:38 <sje> grr whenever i code, i find no shares :(
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 789 2012-02-14 14:09:48 <userggv> paulo, vc é de brasilia?
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 835 2012-02-14 15:04:41 <sje> scuse my ignorance - but how does one build a gui-less bitcoin?
 836 2012-02-14 15:05:04 <sipa> cd src
 837 2012-02-14 15:05:12 <sipa> make -f makefile.unix bitcoind
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 841 2012-02-14 15:10:26 <cande> any1 know where i can get a good priced nfc reader?
 842 2012-02-14 15:11:35 <sje> thanks sipa
 843 2012-02-14 15:12:05 <sje> do you know how many times bitcoind forks? want to know for upstart job
 844 2012-02-14 15:13:01 <sipa> never
 845 2012-02-14 15:13:06 <sipa> unless you give -daemon
 846 2012-02-14 15:13:11 <sipa> in which case it forks once
 847 2012-02-14 15:13:36 <sipa> and it keeps its own pidfile
 848 2012-02-14 15:18:21 <sje> aha thanks sipa
 849 2012-02-14 15:19:23 <sipa> sje: if you write an upstart script for bitcoin, BlueMatt may be interested in it for the PPA
 850 2012-02-14 15:19:50 <gmaxwell> I want SJE's backupwallet gui in 0.6 once its tested. :)
 851 2012-02-14 15:19:57 <sipa> gmaxwell: ack
 852 2012-02-14 15:20:12 <sje> ah ok - i have one, but will let him know once it's 'tuned'
 853 2012-02-14 15:20:48 <sipa> sje: though i suppose that to do so, you'll also want a real system-wide bitcoind, with a datadir in /var/lib somewhere, and so on
 854 2012-02-14 15:21:03 <sipa> potentially running as a separate user
 855 2012-02-14 15:21:15 <sje> that's getting a bit hardcore :)
 856 2012-02-14 15:21:28 <sje> but yeah that makes sense
 857 2012-02-14 15:21:39 <sje> i have to sleep
 858 2012-02-14 15:21:42 <sje> 2am
 859 2012-02-14 15:21:48 <sipa> good night
 860 2012-02-14 15:22:03 <sje> cheers - good day/night :)
 861 2012-02-14 15:23:05 <Graet> nn sje
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 870 2012-02-14 15:36:07 <finway> gmaxwell:ping
 871 2012-02-14 15:36:24 <gmaxwell> finway: Yes?
 872 2012-02-14 15:36:31 <finway> gmaxwell:  Is what makomk said true ? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=63701.msg746206#msg746206
 873 2012-02-14 15:37:31 <gmaxwell> finway: Why are you asking me?
 874 2012-02-14 15:38:08 <finway> gmaxwell: [quote] As gmaxwell pointed out when he discovered p2pool was allowing miners to put non-standard transactions in their coinbases, IsStandard doesn't actually check that the scriptPubKey of the transaction being spent was standard at all - it only checks the scriptSigs and scriptPubKeys of the transaction being spent.   [/quote]
 875 2012-02-14 15:38:45 <gmaxwell> Yes. Thats true. I did point that out.
 876 2012-02-14 15:40:07 <sipa> now if a BIP16 spend were to use a non-push operation...
 877 2012-02-14 15:40:46 <finway> so will BIP16 be safely deployed ?
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 879 2012-02-14 15:41:28 <sipa> well, as soon as BIP16 is deployed, all other miner already have a very large incentive to upgrade
 880 2012-02-14 15:41:49 <sipa> this is just an extra (and maybe unforeseen) extra reason why
 881 2012-02-14 15:44:06 <gmaxwell> finway: This isn't really a safty thing. It just means that upgraded daemons are risk exposed to being orphaned if they don't enforce the rule when the majority of the network does.
 882 2012-02-14 15:45:11 <sipa> well, if exactly 55% of mining power is behind BIP16, it means there is a 0.8% chance that 6 successive blocks from from old miners
 883 2012-02-14 15:45:11 <gmaxwell> It means that half-deployed is less acceptable than it would have otherwise been if the transactions were non-standard.
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 885 2012-02-14 15:45:31 <sipa> which means there is a reasonable but small chance old clients will see the spending transaction as valid
 886 2012-02-14 15:45:40 <gmaxwell> sipa: yea, I do think it influences the threshold we should be using.
 887 2012-02-14 15:46:13 <sipa> indeed, i think 55% is too low anyway
 888 2012-02-14 15:46:31 <gmaxwell> ::nods::
 889 2012-02-14 15:46:43 <sipa> it's safe enough to assume a supermajority existed at some point, but not enough to know it is sustainabl
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 930 2012-02-14 16:12:48 <sipa> gmaxwell: managed to do any testing of addrman anymore?
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 935 2012-02-14 16:18:30 <gmaxwell> sipa: I started it up in valgrind and it didn't explode but nothing more than that— the node I was running it on ran out of space and shut down. (doh)
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 937 2012-02-14 16:19:58 <gmaxwell> sipa: you see the comment on the backupwallet gui re: backupwallet not taking the wallet lock?
 938 2012-02-14 16:20:19 <sipa> gmaxwell: i replied
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 941 2012-02-14 16:20:55 <gmaxwell> okay, I'm apparently suffering from time dilation.
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 943 2012-02-14 16:21:47 <sipa> i left addrman running all night, without problems; then again, i did that before and never saw any corruption of access violation either; i'd need a positive reply from luke or gavin to gain some trust the issue was fixed
 944 2012-02-14 16:22:26 <gmaxwell> sipa: well mine made it almost days before the node ran out of space (for unrelated reasons)
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 971 2012-02-14 17:35:19 <BlueMatt> meeting is in 30 min, right?
 972 2012-02-14 17:35:31 <kinlo> is the meeting going to happen tonight, or did gavin realise it's valentine's day?
 973 2012-02-14 17:35:46 <sipa> Gavin mentioned valentine in his mail, so i guess it will happen
 974 2012-02-14 17:35:52 <sipa> and it's in 3.5 hours
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 976 2012-02-14 17:36:18 <sipa> (current 17:28 UTC)
 977 2012-02-14 17:36:48 <BlueMatt> oh, no wonder I was confused, wolframalpha thinks im in pst...
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 979 2012-02-14 17:36:55 <BlueMatt> wtf wolframalpha?
 980 2012-02-14 17:37:08 <kinlo> BlueMatt: http://www.timeanddate.com
 981 2012-02-14 17:37:16 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: add a UTC clock to your screen and be done with it.
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 983 2012-02-14 17:37:26 <kinlo> I never got wolfram alpha to do anything usefull for me
 984 2012-02-14 17:37:28 <BlueMatt> kinlo: wolframalpha works just as well, unless it gets its geoip db wrong
 985 2012-02-14 17:38:13 <usertg> what is the % that already accept bip16?
 986 2012-02-14 17:38:22 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: I have a gmt one in my clock applet, but a. its not the same as utc (and for some reason there is no utc???) and b. I dont feel like converting from 12-h to 24-h and calculating offsets, so i usually just type it in wolframalpha
 987 2012-02-14 17:38:27 <BlueMatt> (which does all that for you)
 988 2012-02-14 17:39:09 <usertg> and how much is needed?
 989 2012-02-14 17:39:11 <UukGoblin> oh ffs
 990 2012-02-14 17:39:18 <UukGoblin> blockchain is down for maintenance, blockexplorer is slow
 991 2012-02-14 17:39:27 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: GMT = UTC (UTC is just TAI corrected to agree with GMT)
 992 2012-02-14 17:39:49 <kinlo> is there an overview on which version people use of the client in general?
 993 2012-02-14 17:39:55 <UukGoblin> someone should write a blockexplorer using data straight from bitcoind's database
 994 2012-02-14 17:39:59 <kinlo> not the block-generating-people
 995 2012-02-14 17:40:09 <gmaxwell> (TAI is the atomic clock tick, GMT is solar time at a particular locations, UTC get leap seconds in order to stay in agreement within a second of GMT)
 996 2012-02-14 17:40:17 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: hmm, for some reason I thought gmt had dst differences sometimes (though now that you mention it, yea ofc I was wrong...not sure how I misremembered that...)
 997 2012-02-14 17:40:52 <sipa> kinlo: http://bitcoinstatus.rowit.co.uk/
 998 2012-02-14 17:40:59 <sipa> 0.3.24 is the most-used it seems :(
 999 2012-02-14 17:41:14 <kinlo> BlueMatt: gmt has no dst differences, they use BST in .uk when they need summertime
1000 2012-02-14 17:41:20 <UukGoblin> 0.3.24 was the last "good" one ;-]
1001 2012-02-14 17:41:24 <UukGoblin> actually no
1002 2012-02-14 17:41:24 <sipa> UukGoblin: huh?
1003 2012-02-14 17:41:28 <BlueMatt> kinlo: yep
1004 2012-02-14 17:41:28 <UukGoblin> .22
1005 2012-02-14 17:41:30 <gmaxwell> sipa: did you see that there was a whole bitcoin webpage still directing people to 0.3.24 until a couple days ago? :(
1006 2012-02-14 17:41:32 <sipa> 0.3.24 was the least stable release ever imho
1007 2012-02-14 17:41:39 <UukGoblin> I think .22 was the last with .01 fee
1008 2012-02-14 17:41:44 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: you realize .22 was very broken
1009 2012-02-14 17:41:49 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: o rly?
1010 2012-02-14 17:41:55 <luke-jr> btw, my St. Valentine's day addr: 1Martyr7QedWCA6LZ53wZnkes8tkgTFiLZ
1011 2012-02-14 17:41:55 <sipa> gmaxwell: huh?
1012 2012-02-14 17:42:03 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, naah, 0.3.9 was very broken.
1013 2012-02-14 17:42:14 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: yes, bitcoin.sourceforge.net was a snapshot of bitcoin.org as of about 0.3.24.
1014 2012-02-14 17:42:16 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: in fact, .22 is the reason the topic says "*OLD VERSIONS HARM THE NETWORK AND YOUR SECURITY*"
1015 2012-02-14 17:42:22 <luke-jr> every release was broken in some way -.-
1016 2012-02-14 17:42:32 <luke-jr> this is why I maintain the stable versions
1017 2012-02-14 17:42:34 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: Martyr...
1018 2012-02-14 17:42:45 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: St. Valentine was a martyr ;)
1019 2012-02-14 17:42:47 <nanotube> ;;echo $utc
1020 2012-02-14 17:42:48 <gribble> Tue Feb 14 17:35:29 2012
1021 2012-02-14 17:43:10 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: yea, but...
1022 2012-02-14 17:43:17 <sipa> BlueMatt: do not argue with it
1023 2012-02-14 17:43:23 [Tycho] has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1024 2012-02-14 17:43:38 <gmaxwell> sipa: nanotube fixed it, but .. I found out about it when someone in #bitcoin was insisting 0.3.24 was the latest version. :(
1025 2012-02-14 17:43:46 <luke-jr> lol
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1028 2012-02-14 17:44:00 <BlueMatt> doesnt the #bitcoin topic have latest version: ...?
1029 2012-02-14 17:44:07 <wumpus> no one reads the topic
1030 2012-02-14 17:44:14 <kinlo> I still think bitcoin should alert when there is a newer version
1031 2012-02-14 17:44:14 <BlueMatt> oh, guess someone got rid of that...
1032 2012-02-14 17:44:14 <wumpus> weird, but true
1033 2012-02-14 17:44:24 <luke-jr> did anyone test stable rc2s btw?
1034 2012-02-14 17:44:24 * nanotube reads topic just to prove wumpus wrong. :)
1035 2012-02-14 17:44:28 <UukGoblin> and it doesn't
1036 2012-02-14 17:44:47 <UukGoblin> (contain the latest ver in the topic)
1037 2012-02-14 17:44:52 <sipa> luke-jr: which version?
1038 2012-02-14 17:44:55 <UukGoblin> what's the latest on this BIP16/BIP17 war?
1039 2012-02-14 17:45:04 <UukGoblin> cease-fired yet?
1040 2012-02-14 17:45:06 <wumpus> nanotube :p
1041 2012-02-14 17:45:27 <luke-jr> wumpus: bitcoin-qt doesn't update its receiving addr list when I import my privkey
1042 2012-02-14 17:45:34 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: is now.
1043 2012-02-14 17:45:54 <luke-jr> sipa: 0.4.4, 0.5.0.4, 0.5.3
1044 2012-02-14 17:45:56 <BlueMatt> yea, only -dev does for some reason...
1045 2012-02-14 17:45:56 <BlueMatt> I know #bitcoin used to...
1046 2012-02-14 17:45:58 <wumpus> kinlo: yes, I guess the alert messages could be used for that
1047 2012-02-14 17:46:10 <gmaxwell> It would be helpful if more people than me would test the backup wallet gui feature. I'd like to squeeke that into 0.6.
1048 2012-02-14 17:46:15 <luke-jr> wumpus: bitcoin-qt doesn't update its receiving addr list when I import my privkey … until I restart it
1049 2012-02-14 17:46:20 <sipa> gmaxwell: i tested it
1050 2012-02-14 17:46:27 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I didn't know it existed
1051 2012-02-14 17:46:37 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: does it support full encryption?
1052 2012-02-14 17:46:41 <kinlo> wumpus: for example...
1053 2012-02-14 17:46:41 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/834
1054 2012-02-14 17:46:51 <wumpus> luke-jr: that's weird...
1055 2012-02-14 17:46:52 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: it's just an interface on the same code as backupwallet rpc.
1056 2012-02-14 17:46:52 <sipa> luke-jr: it is just a GUI frontend for the backupwallet RPC call
1057 2012-02-14 17:46:59 <luke-jr> i c
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1061 2012-02-14 17:47:56 <luke-jr> oh well, at least a step forward ;)
1062 2012-02-14 17:48:07 <gmaxwell> Also, anyone made any progress on the reported 0.6 deadlocks?  I think we had two people (?) reporting deadlockish behavior on MacOS?
1063 2012-02-14 17:48:10 BeTep has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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1065 2012-02-14 17:48:30 <sipa> gmaxwell: been running a 0.6.0 bitcoin-qt all day, no problems...
1066 2012-02-14 17:48:32 Jamesz has joined
1067 2012-02-14 17:48:33 <sipa> 0.6.0rc1
1068 2012-02-14 17:48:37 <wumpus> see also https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/820 , many people with RPC crashes, seems like some kind of race condition(?)
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1079 2012-02-14 17:49:22 <luke-jr> O.o
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1081 2012-02-14 17:49:28 <BlueMatt> usually happens with p2pool
1082 2012-02-14 17:49:30 <sipa> "runtime error" that's very informative
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1084 2012-02-14 17:49:32 <gmaxwell> wumpus: p2pool users have been reporting it for a while, so far I believe all reports have been on windows.
1085 2012-02-14 17:49:39 <BlueMatt> (or atleast when Ive seen complaints)
1086 2012-02-14 17:49:50 <wumpus> luke-jr: can you file an issue with the steps required to reproduce the key import/address list doesn't update problem?
1087 2012-02-14 17:49:59 devrandom has joined
1088 2012-02-14 17:50:08 <gmaxwell> (trying to reproduce is why I was compiling the gui the other day, but I can't test on windows)
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1098 2012-02-14 17:52:53 <BlueMatt> anyone have a windows box with a debugger that they can debug bitcoin on with p2pool?
1099 2012-02-14 17:52:53 <BlueMatt> wumpus: afaik you are the only one who has ever built bitcoin-qt on windows here...
1100 2012-02-14 17:53:30 <gmaxwell> 12:47 < splatster> profiling didn't reveal shit
1101 2012-02-14 17:53:50 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1102 2012-02-14 17:53:53 <wumpus> yes I could build it in qt creator on xp... haven't tried for a while, don't know if the deps still work...
1103 2012-02-14 17:53:58 <gmaxwell> When splatster comes back we need to get him to attach to every thread and get a backtrace from it to find out where its spinning.
1104 2012-02-14 17:54:17 BlueMatt has joined
1105 2012-02-14 17:54:38 <gmaxwell> (sounds like he is software development clueful, so that shouldn't be too hard)
1106 2012-02-14 17:54:43 <BlueMatt> anyone have a windows box with a debugger that they can debug bitcoin on with p2pool?
1107 2012-02-14 17:54:45 <BlueMatt> wumpus: afaik you are the only one who has ever built bitcoin-qt on windows here...
1108 2012-02-14 17:54:45 <wumpus> BlueMatt: yes I could build it in qt creator on xp... haven't tried for a while, don't know if the deps still work...
1109 2012-02-14 17:55:01 * sipa has a deja vu
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1112 2012-02-14 17:55:14 <wumpus> development on windows sucks...
1113 2012-02-14 17:55:23 <BlueMatt> yep
1114 2012-02-14 17:55:32 <mod6> for sure.
1115 2012-02-14 17:55:36 <mod6> doing it now
1116 2012-02-14 17:55:42 * mod6 stabs himself in the face.
1117 2012-02-14 17:56:08 <BlueMatt> also, when will wpa_supplicant finally get its act together and work on any large-scale wifi networks?
1118 2012-02-14 17:56:24 <BlueMatt> seriously, Ive never seen it work properly on any network with more than one ap, on any wifi card...
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1121 2012-02-14 17:57:44 <wumpus> luke-jr: thanks
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1124 2012-02-14 18:03:12 <BlueMatt> wow, big netsplit...
1125 2012-02-14 18:03:29 <Graet> been a few last 12 hours :/
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1135 2012-02-14 18:04:12 <BlueMatt> seems like freenode has been off the past week or so...
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1137 2012-02-14 18:04:23 <btc_novice> "kinlo: is there an overview on which version people use of the client in general?"  -- I've been collecting data for a while now (similar to http://bitcoinstatus.rowit.co.uk/) and here's what I have for version being run: http://i.imgur.com/JJN6b.png
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1188 2012-02-14 18:39:46 <luke-jr> BlueMatt_: might possibly be that DDoSer pissed off he can't take Eligius down ;/
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1190 2012-02-14 18:40:59 <BlueMatt_> luke-jr: for some reason I kinda doubt that...
1191 2012-02-14 18:41:05 <BlueMatt_> though I suppose its possible...
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1193 2012-02-14 18:42:16 <cjd> :D  +1 resiliancy
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1196 2012-02-14 18:44:41 <BlueMatt_> luke-jr: how did you come back, or did the ddos just slow down?
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1199 2012-02-14 18:45:55 <smickles> BlueMatt_: the power of prayer ;D
1200 2012-02-14 18:46:39 <luke-jr> BlueMatt_: Amazon EC2 proxy
1201 2012-02-14 18:46:50 <luke-jr> Amazon is handlign the DDoS while the FBI investigates
1202 2012-02-14 18:47:16 <cjd> nice solution
1203 2012-02-14 18:47:30 <cjd> amazon can do persistent connections?
1204 2012-02-14 18:47:35 <cjd> (for long poll)
1205 2012-02-14 18:47:54 <phantomcircuit> hmm
1206 2012-02-14 18:48:04 <phantomcircuit> possibly there should be a bitcoin freenode node
1207 2012-02-14 18:48:16 <BlueMatt_> heh nice
1208 2012-02-14 18:48:27 <phantomcircuit> i'll propose one to them
1209 2012-02-14 18:48:42 <cjd> phantom, you mean running an ircd?
1210 2012-02-14 18:49:12 <Graet> we should make bitnode and have our own irc :P
1211 2012-02-14 18:49:23 <BlueMatt_> Graet: we do...
1212 2012-02-14 18:49:35 <phantomcircuit> cjd, yes
1213 2012-02-14 18:49:37 <Graet> why do we use freenodde?
1214 2012-02-14 18:49:39 * cjd would not run an ircd unless it was like private
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1218 2012-02-14 18:50:08 <wumpus> way too much hassle to run an irc network
1219 2012-02-14 18:50:12 <cjd> efnet won't even let you link unless you have a multihomed connection
1220 2012-02-14 18:50:14 <phantomcircuit> cjd, i have experience running public irc servers
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1224 2012-02-14 18:50:25 <BlueMatt_> because there is no reason to use lfnet if more devs are already on freenode
1225 2012-02-14 18:50:29 <BlueMatt_> wumpus: we already run one...
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1227 2012-02-14 18:51:09 <cjd> phantomcircuit: how big? I mean there are a billion micro irc networks that noone cares about, drama == ddos on the order of 10Gb
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1229 2012-02-14 18:52:02 <phantomcircuit> cjd, we got ddos'd about twice a week
1230 2012-02-14 18:52:29 <cjd> what kind of server stuff were you running on?
1231 2012-02-14 18:52:34 <sipa> i used to manage our university's student irc network
1232 2012-02-14 18:53:15 <phantomcircuit> cjd, was a pretty shitty server actually
1233 2012-02-14 18:53:51 <phantomcircuit> we had 2 10g connections and 1 100mbps for admin
1234 2012-02-14 18:53:57 <BlueMatt_> sipa: your uni had its own irc net for students...?
1235 2012-02-14 18:54:04 <phantomcircuit> mostly a hw firewall handled the ddos
1236 2012-02-14 18:54:16 <sipa> BlueMatt_: no, but the students did :)
1237 2012-02-14 18:54:17 <cjd> 2x10g is respectable
1238 2012-02-14 18:54:34 <phantomcircuit> cjd, yeah it just ate 99% of attacks
1239 2012-02-14 18:54:41 paraipan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1240 2012-02-14 18:54:42 <BlueMatt_> sipa: oh...still...
1241 2012-02-14 18:55:08 <sipa> BlueMatt_: currently 95 users connected
1242 2012-02-14 18:55:12 <sipa> ;)
1243 2012-02-14 18:55:13 <BlueMatt_> heh
1244 2012-02-14 18:55:21 <sipa> kinda died out over the years
1245 2012-02-14 18:55:35 paraipan has joined
1246 2012-02-14 18:55:36 <phantomcircuit> cjd, the only attack that succeeded was someone who managed to get ~10m bots to connect all at once
1247 2012-02-14 18:55:39 <BlueMatt_> yea, irc isnt exactly very popular any more...
1248 2012-02-14 18:55:50 <phantomcircuit> the actual server wasn't super fast so it couldn't handle them all
1249 2012-02-14 18:55:55 <cjd> heh
1250 2012-02-14 18:55:57 <cjd> TOR?
1251 2012-02-14 18:56:03 <phantomcircuit> nfc
1252 2012-02-14 18:57:20 <cjd> how's momento going?
1253 2012-02-14 18:57:36 <BlueMatt_> wtf happened to tradehill?
1254 2012-02-14 18:57:37 <BlueMatt_> http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/14/2797034/bitcoin-tradehill-suspends-trading-returns-money
1255 2012-02-14 18:57:37 <BlueMatt_> if mainstream tech media is reporting it it must be old...
1256 2012-02-14 18:58:18 <phantomcircuit> that's pretty old
1257 2012-02-14 18:58:27 <phantomcircuit> i've known that was going to happen since the day they opened
1258 2012-02-14 18:58:29 * phantomcircuit runs
1259 2012-02-14 18:58:35 <cjd> heh
1260 2012-02-14 18:59:06 <BlueMatt_> heh, still it pretty clearly states that mc/banks are unwilling to do business with people who do business with people who deal in bitcoin...
1261 2012-02-14 18:59:09 <BlueMatt_> which is pretty nasty
1262 2012-02-14 18:59:46 <cjd> otoh it shows they're scared ;)
1263 2012-02-14 18:59:58 smickles is now known as smickles|idle
1264 2012-02-14 19:00:54 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt_, th's problem is pretty clear to me
1265 2012-02-14 19:01:02 <BlueMatt_> wait, tradehill owns bitcoin.com?...
1266 2012-02-14 19:01:07 <phantomcircuit> yeah they do
1267 2012-02-14 19:01:08 <BlueMatt_> how did that happen?
1268 2012-02-14 19:01:11 <phantomcircuit> that's not gonna end well
1269 2012-02-14 19:01:14 <phantomcircuit> months ago
1270 2012-02-14 19:01:28 <BlueMatt_> yea, but how did no one bother to buy bitcoin.com like 2 years ago?
1271 2012-02-14 19:01:48 <phantomcircuit> they bought it from someone
1272 2012-02-14 19:01:49 <wumpus> it was owned by some other company, and not (openly) for sale
1273 2012-02-14 19:01:59 <phantomcircuit> i heard it through the grape vine they paid 6 figures
1274 2012-02-14 19:02:03 <BlueMatt_> damn
1275 2012-02-14 19:02:12 <wumpus> ...wow
1276 2012-02-14 19:02:15 <BlueMatt_> well I suppose tradehill is better than some random company, but still...
1277 2012-02-14 19:02:28 * BlueMatt_ -> class
1278 2012-02-14 19:02:29 BlueMatt_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1279 2012-02-14 19:02:29 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt_: well, perhaps not anymore. They don't have a reputation to protect now.
1280 2012-02-14 19:03:05 <wumpus> well yes it could be worse, as long as they're not going to offer trojaned downloads I'm happy really...
1281 2012-02-14 19:03:20 ivan\ has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
1282 2012-02-14 19:04:02 smickles is now known as idle!~michael@cpe-071-070-169-083.nc.res.rr.com|smickles
1283 2012-02-14 19:04:29 <wumpus> also they're the first bitcoin "bank" shutting down that actually returns the money
1284 2012-02-14 19:04:52 ivan\ has joined
1285 2012-02-14 19:05:03 lianj_ is now known as lianj
1286 2012-02-14 19:05:18 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1287 2012-02-14 19:05:40 <phantomcircuit> wumpus, that's incorrect, exchb was the first to shutdown and return all client funds
1288 2012-02-14 19:05:57 <wumpus> exchb? never even heard of them...
1289 2012-02-14 19:10:47 lalarou has joined
1290 2012-02-14 19:13:08 erle- has joined
1291 2012-02-14 19:15:09 <luke-jr> wumpus: supposedly. I don't see my money yet
1292 2012-02-14 19:15:20 <luke-jr> sorry, spoke too soon
1293 2012-02-14 19:15:24 <luke-jr> I missed the popup ;)
1294 2012-02-14 19:15:31 <luke-jr> I did receive my 33 BTC from them
1295 2012-02-14 19:15:35 <luke-jr> no idea if I'll get the USD check
1296 2012-02-14 19:15:51 <luke-jr> I presume my Euros and AUD are forfeit since I don't have any accounts that can receive them
1297 2012-02-14 19:16:13 <mod6> :(
1298 2012-02-14 19:16:57 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=63762.20
1299 2012-02-14 19:17:33 <gavinandresen> ... your mileage may vary, this link carries no warranty, express or implied....
1300 2012-02-14 19:17:43 <wumpus> heh
1301 2012-02-14 19:18:01 * vragnaroda infers a warranty from that link.
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1325 2012-02-14 20:00:26 <forrestv> does anyone have a debug build of bitcoin-qt for windows..?
1326 2012-02-14 20:01:04 cryptoxchange has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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1328 2012-02-14 20:08:38 <luke-jr> thx gavinandresen
1329 2012-02-14 20:08:49 Lolcust has joined
1330 2012-02-14 20:11:02 [Tycho] has joined
1331 2012-02-14 20:14:23 <denisx> yeah, my bitcoin 0.5.2 joel cohn patch did found a block
1332 2012-02-14 20:14:40 <luke-jr> O.o
1333 2012-02-14 20:14:43 <denisx> last proof I needed
1334 2012-02-14 20:14:53 <luke-jr> so when is the meeting anyhow?
1335 2012-02-14 20:15:00 <sipa> in an hour
1336 2012-02-14 20:15:03 <luke-jr> ok
1337 2012-02-14 20:15:08 <sipa> ;;echo $utc
1338 2012-02-14 20:15:08 <gribble> Tue Feb 14 20:07:50 2012
1339 2012-02-14 20:15:09 <luke-jr> I might not be able to be here :<
1340 2012-02-14 20:15:10 <denisx> aeh, joel katz, not cohn
1341 2012-02-14 20:15:19 <luke-jr> denisx: I wasn't aware he did a 0.5.2 patch
1342 2012-02-14 20:15:31 <denisx> luke-jr: he didn't
1343 2012-02-14 20:15:33 <denisx> I dit
1344 2012-02-14 20:15:34 <luke-jr> ..
1345 2012-02-14 20:15:34 <denisx> did
1346 2012-02-14 20:15:39 <luke-jr> seems redundant :P
1347 2012-02-14 20:15:58 <luke-jr> I've been maintaining each of his 4diff changes as a git branch
1348 2012-02-14 20:17:09 <denisx> I used the 0.3.24 patch until last week
1349 2012-02-14 20:17:52 dr_win has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1350 2012-02-14 20:18:39 <luke-jr> denisx: some of it is in next-test
1351 2012-02-14 20:18:58 <denisx> next-test?
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1374 2012-02-14 21:01:53 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: so whats the point of you having a fancy MaRTyR address if you post the privkey?
1375 2012-02-14 21:02:47 <BlueMatt> also, if the meeting is in 4 minutes, where is everyone?
1376 2012-02-14 21:03:01 <gavinandresen> yeah, where is everybody?
1377 2012-02-14 21:03:24 RazielZ has joined
1378 2012-02-14 21:03:25 <gavinandresen> and who the hell thought it was a good idea to schedule a meeting on Valentine's day.....
1379 2012-02-14 21:03:52 * sipa is here
1380 2012-02-14 21:03:53 <gmaxwell> ♥
1381 2012-02-14 21:04:02 <jim618> Happy Valentine's Day!
1382 2012-02-14 21:04:33 <sipa> hmm, how are you supposed to bootstrap a testnet node?
1383 2012-02-14 21:04:47 <sipa> no dns seeds, no seedlist, and by default no irc :)
1384 2012-02-14 21:04:48 <gmaxwell> sipa: I turn IRC on, of course.
1385 2012-02-14 21:05:25 <gmaxwell> man, I know I thought of that before. I guess I didn't say something? :(  I didn't expect us to turn it off so quickly until we did. :)
1386 2012-02-14 21:05:34 <gavinandresen> sipa:  good bug, I'm too used to testing with my already-bootstrapped nodes....
1387 2012-02-14 21:06:03 <gmaxwell> Well, at least I tested mainnet cleanly bootstrapping without it.
1388 2012-02-14 21:07:15 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: the example was a different address
1389 2012-02-14 21:07:22 <cjd> has anyone done testing on a node which is bootstrapped from knowing the address of only one other node?
1390 2012-02-14 21:07:41 <cjd> aka no irc, no dns, no hardcoded nodes...
1391 2012-02-14 21:08:02 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: oh, so you took the time to make 2 valentines day addresses?
1392 2012-02-14 21:08:02 <theymos> I've done that before, though not with recent versions.
1393 2012-02-14 21:08:29 <gmaxwell> cjd: IRC is now disabled by default. I've tested with no dns.  I also test nodes behind connect all the time and their addr.dat fills up like normal.
1394 2012-02-14 21:08:37 <BlueMatt> its 21:01 UTC: "Status of BIP 16 support (progress towards 50% hashing power)."
1395 2012-02-14 21:08:46 <cjd> cool
1396 2012-02-14 21:09:06 <BlueMatt> anyone have numbers?
1397 2012-02-14 21:09:14 <gavinandresen> When I checked this morning, BIP 16 support was at 33%
1398 2012-02-14 21:09:22 <sipa> in the last 1000 blocks?
1399 2012-02-14 21:09:31 <gavinandresen> ... last 100 and 200 blocks
1400 2012-02-14 21:09:49 <sipa> 33% is pretty good, but far from what we need
1401 2012-02-14 21:09:58 <BlueMatt> is [Tycho] around?
1402 2012-02-14 21:10:04 <sipa> gavinandresen: you saw https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=63701.0?
1403 2012-02-14 21:10:24 <gavinandresen> sipa: yep, didn't have anything to add to what you said.
1404 2012-02-14 21:10:40 <gavinandresen> ... and what we'll discuss here now.
1405 2012-02-14 21:12:00 <gavinandresen> Anybody have current stats on Tycho's mining power?
1406 2012-02-14 21:12:18 twobitcoins has joined
1407 2012-02-14 21:12:30 <BlueMatt> blockchain.info is down atm...
1408 2012-02-14 21:12:34 <sipa> ;;calc [bc,deepbit]/[bc,nethash]*100/1000000
1409 2012-02-14 21:12:40 <gribble> 32.5577041935
1410 2012-02-14 21:12:47 <sipa> 32.55%
1411 2012-02-14 21:12:47 <gavinandresen> Cool, 32% ?
1412 2012-02-14 21:13:24 <gavinandresen> ... so if Tycho switches that'd be 65%, and that seems like a good place to flip the deadline switch and tell the remaining miners "upgrade or risk being orphaned"
1413 2012-02-14 21:13:33 <BlueMatt>  /nod
1414 2012-02-14 21:13:36 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I left it running overnight. I got like 30
1415 2012-02-14 21:13:43 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: heh
1416 2012-02-14 21:13:51 smickles is now known as smickles|idle
1417 2012-02-14 21:14:00 <BlueMatt> (also, tycho mentioned that he would enable it when >50% of other miners enabled it, which is roughly where it is)
1418 2012-02-14 21:14:13 <luke-jr> BIP 17 support is at like 2%, and I don't have time to promote it properly, so I expect to withdraw it this week unless somethign changes for the better
1419 2012-02-14 21:14:13 <BlueMatt> so, he should be turning it on now...
1420 2012-02-14 21:14:28 <luke-jr> fwiw
1421 2012-02-14 21:14:34 <gavinandresen> I should count to see how many of the top-10 mining pools are supporting, I'm pretty sure it's more than 5
1422 2012-02-14 21:14:56 TD has joined
1423 2012-02-14 21:15:02 <BlueMatt> TD: you're late
1424 2012-02-14 21:15:14 <gavinandresen> yeah, we already divvied up the cash
1425 2012-02-14 21:15:22 <sipa> switching at an apparent 65% of mining power will mean at least 60% of mining power is behind it (given some variance), which means still one in 244 times 6 consecutive blocks will be miner by old miners
1426 2012-02-14 21:15:56 <luke-jr> sipa: I think he means making the deadline fixed?
1427 2012-02-14 21:16:04 <luke-jr> so that 65% should hit nearly 100% by then
1428 2012-02-14 21:16:29 <gavinandresen> sipa: yes, and I don't really care if the deadline is two weeks or four, just that there IS a deadline so we make progress
1429 2012-02-14 21:16:43 <sipa> yes, having a deadline will surely help there
1430 2012-02-14 21:17:03 * BlueMatt votes for the 1st
1431 2012-02-14 21:17:19 <BlueMatt> ~2 weeks
1432 2012-02-14 21:17:31 * luke-jr doesn't care, so long as P2SH (ideally BIP 17) can get over with so he can focus on other stuff
1433 2012-02-14 21:17:35 p0s has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1434 2012-02-14 21:17:43 tret has joined
1435 2012-02-14 21:18:02 <gavinandresen> No, that's too soon.  We need to convince Tycho to upgrade, go through the process of counting as described in BIP 16, etc
1436 2012-02-14 21:18:48 <gavinandresen> ... unless you mean the 1'st as the date when we do the count, and March 15'th as the potential switchover date
1437 2012-02-14 21:18:56 <BlueMatt> yea, that was my goal
1438 2012-02-14 21:19:03 <BlueMatt> s/goal/uh, whatever word fits/
1439 2012-02-14 21:19:12 <sipa> intent?
1440 2012-02-14 21:19:13 <BlueMatt> ie shift all of bip 16 up a month
1441 2012-02-14 21:19:16 <BlueMatt> sipa: sure
1442 2012-02-14 21:19:17 <gavinandresen> okey doke, cool.
1443 2012-02-14 21:19:34 sneak has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1444 2012-02-14 21:20:10 <gavinandresen> Agenda item 2?   Protocol change that's coming up Feb 20'th....
1445 2012-02-14 21:20:29 <BlueMatt> I vote for gmaxwell's original ideas
1446 2012-02-14 21:20:31 sneak has joined
1447 2012-02-14 21:20:34 <sipa> BlueMatt: being?
1448 2012-02-14 21:20:38 <BlueMatt> 1. network notification 24-hours before
1449 2012-02-14 21:20:46 <BlueMatt> pointing people to bitcoin.org/feb20...
1450 2012-02-14 21:20:53 <BlueMatt> which can be updated with the latest info
1451 2012-02-14 21:20:58 <BlueMatt> 2. 0.5.3 before then
1452 2012-02-14 21:21:07 <sipa> i still haven't found any evidence online about routers changing payload data of unknown protocols
1453 2012-02-14 21:21:11 <BlueMatt> something weakly worded
1454 2012-02-14 21:21:14 <TD> BlueMatt: ah, i wasn't attempting to join actually, sorry :) but now i'm here anyway ....
1455 2012-02-14 21:21:27 <gavinandresen> Yes, I'm still wondering if this is a case of urban internet legend
1456 2012-02-14 21:21:42 <sipa> well, those two p2pool users seemed to experience it
1457 2012-02-14 21:21:47 <TD> sipa: what was the issue?
1458 2012-02-14 21:21:51 <sipa> forrestv or gmaxwell: you know more?
1459 2012-02-14 21:21:54 <theymos> Is there a problem with the Feb 20 change? Why is an alert necessary?
1460 2012-02-14 21:22:00 <BlueMatt> TD: some nats apparently replace ips in data streams
1461 2012-02-14 21:22:15 <sipa> TD: NAT routers changing the addrFrom inside the "version" packet to the WAN IP
1462 2012-02-14 21:22:15 <BlueMatt> which could cause clients to fail to connect with version messages are checksummed
1463 2012-02-14 21:22:22 topace has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1464 2012-02-14 21:22:47 [Tycho] has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1465 2012-02-14 21:22:50 <TD> wifi hotspot routers are so badly programmed i'll believe anything about them, but that i didn't hear of before
1466 2012-02-14 21:22:59 <BlueMatt> notification similar to: "several network-wide rules will be changing at midnight on february 20th, and some users may have problems connecting.  Please see bitcoin.org/feb20 for the latest news"
1467 2012-02-14 21:23:02 elombrozo has joined
1468 2012-02-14 21:23:21 <sipa> it should only affect a small percentage of users
1469 2012-02-14 21:23:28 <gavinandresen> that's too many characters for a notification, I believe....
1470 2012-02-14 21:23:38 <BlueMatt> ok, so a shorter version of that...
1471 2012-02-14 21:23:56 <BlueMatt> others will likely see connection problems at midnight due to clock skews
1472 2012-02-14 21:24:03 <BlueMatt> (so I think a notification may help)
1473 2012-02-14 21:24:05 <TD> "Network instability may occur on Feb 20th, learn more at bitcoin.org"
1474 2012-02-14 21:24:19 <theymos> Existing connections won't be broken AFAIK, so I don't think problems are very likely at the time.
1475 2012-02-14 21:24:33 <sipa> theymos: indeed, already tested
1476 2012-02-14 21:24:41 PK has joined
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1479 2012-02-14 21:24:46 PK has quit (Changing host)
1480 2012-02-14 21:24:46 PK has joined
1481 2012-02-14 21:24:47 <sipa> it's the time of version message that matters
1482 2012-02-14 21:24:50 <BlueMatt> theymos: yea, but there may be people starting nodes at midnight...
1483 2012-02-14 21:25:00 <sipa> if it is before feb20 for one end, but after for the other, you have a problem
1484 2012-02-14 21:25:14 smickles is now known as idle!~michael@cpe-071-070-169-083.nc.res.rr.com|smickles
1485 2012-02-14 21:25:28 <elombrozo> I apologize - just got here. could someone sumarize what's special about feb 20 in a few words?
1486 2012-02-14 21:25:43 Xunie` has joined
1487 2012-02-14 21:25:43 <luke-jr> has anyone tested 0.5.2rc2?
1488 2012-02-14 21:25:45 <BlueMatt> elombrozo: version messages will get checksums like other messages currently do
1489 2012-02-14 21:25:50 <luke-jr> or built it?
1490 2012-02-14 21:25:52 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: you mean .3?
1491 2012-02-14 21:25:54 <luke-jr> yeah
1492 2012-02-14 21:25:57 <luke-jr> 0.5.3rc2*
1493 2012-02-14 21:26:04 * BlueMatt was planning on building today
1494 2012-02-14 21:26:24 nhodges has joined
1495 2012-02-14 21:26:45 <elombrozo> but there will still be compatibility with older clients, right?
1496 2012-02-14 21:26:51 <luke-jr> elombrozo: no
1497 2012-02-14 21:26:54 <gavinandresen> We should have modified the code a few months ago to make the switch earlier if fTestNet
1498 2012-02-14 21:26:59 <luke-jr> elombrozo: but all supported clients have this switch
1499 2012-02-14 21:27:05 <sipa> elombrozo: all clients since 0.2.9 have the rule that the protocol changes on feb 20 2012
1500 2012-02-14 21:27:06 elektriks has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1501 2012-02-14 21:27:08 <BlueMatt> elombrozo: the rule has been there for a long, long time
1502 2012-02-14 21:27:22 <luke-jr> clients over 2 years old will break
1503 2012-02-14 21:27:50 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: yea, but the % of people who will have problems is probably low enough that we wouldnt see it on testnet... but, yea
1504 2012-02-14 21:28:17 <sipa> i don't worry about people with a wrong clock too much, their problem will be at most temporarily
1505 2012-02-14 21:28:23 <elombrozo> are there statistics on usage by version?
1506 2012-02-14 21:28:35 * helo makes a note to encode IP addresses in data so NATs won't be tempted to meddle
1507 2012-02-14 21:28:43 <sipa> but the routers changing the addrFrom is problematic if true
1508 2012-02-14 21:29:00 * TD shrug
1509 2012-02-14 21:29:05 * gmaxwell reads scrollback
1510 2012-02-14 21:29:09 <TD> just release a new version that doesn't set addrFrom
1511 2012-02-14 21:29:13 b4epoche_ has joined
1512 2012-02-14 21:29:18 <BlueMatt> sipa: agreed, I was pointing it out as an additional very minor reason why a notification is warranted
1513 2012-02-14 21:29:25 <BlueMatt> TD: its in the process
1514 2012-02-14 21:29:28 <luke-jr> TD: that's the rush for 0.5.3 ;)
1515 2012-02-14 21:29:53 b4epoche has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1516 2012-02-14 21:29:53 b4epoche_ is now known as b4epoche
1517 2012-02-14 21:30:49 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: building
1518 2012-02-14 21:31:24 <gavinandresen> Rushing a release for a problem that we kinda sorta think might affect a small percentage of users seems like a bad idea to me
1519 2012-02-14 21:31:25 <sipa> a node implementing my patch (which ignores the version checksum) may have a chance at sybilling nodes behing such evil NATs
1520 2012-02-14 21:31:36 <gmaxwell> I'm in favor of a notice, simply because iff there is some problem for unforseen reasons we will be unable to communicate with the impacted users.
1521 2012-02-14 21:32:09 <gmaxwell> So better to have told people in advance that there is a status page they can visit if they have problems.
1522 2012-02-14 21:32:22 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: I see little reason to rush beyond getting it out by the 20th (which is about what the usual timeframe is for a release if no bugs popup)
1523 2012-02-14 21:32:48 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: (assuming we get rc2 out today for testing)
1524 2012-02-14 21:32:54 <theymos> I agree. Set the expiration a few weeks in a future, but send a cancellation a couple of days after the 20th. Affected users won't get the cancellation.
1525 2012-02-14 21:32:56 <BlueMatt> (or tomorrow...)
1526 2012-02-14 21:33:10 <BlueMatt> theymos: nice
1527 2012-02-14 21:33:48 <sipa> they also won't get the warning if they only try to connect afterwards
1528 2012-02-14 21:34:00 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: wrt rushing a release. I believe (someone correct me) that the _only_ patch we're carrying for 0.5.3 is the from address behavior changing patch.
1529 2012-02-14 21:34:15 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: no there are a few others backported
1530 2012-02-14 21:34:29 <BlueMatt> (but not many)
1531 2012-02-14 21:34:36 <gmaxwell> :-/
1532 2012-02-14 21:35:00 <cjd> oooooooo   see if you're affected:  <script src="test.bitcoin.org:8333"></script>
1533 2012-02-14 21:35:05 <gmaxwell> That makes things more complicated, esp since we have reports of deadlocking on .6rc1.
1534 2012-02-14 21:35:48 marf_away has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1535 2012-02-14 21:35:53 <cjd> hmm scripts can only send http headers so that might not work but it sounded good
1536 2012-02-14 21:36:04 <gmaxwell> cjd: not very interesting. I full expect that the rate of impacted users is fairly low.. 0-1% kind of stuff. The alert shouldn't be for the nat behavior, but rather because of the risk of unforseen issues.
1537 2012-02-14 21:36:24 <cjd> mm indeed
1538 2012-02-14 21:36:36 <sipa> so, who's up for creating a bitcoin.org/feb20 ?
1539 2012-02-14 21:36:46 <gmaxwell> I can create it.
1540 2012-02-14 21:37:23 <theymos> gmaxwell: Emphasize that nothing important (money supply, etc.) is being changed.
1541 2012-02-14 21:37:35 <gmaxwell> Yes. I'm very sensitive to that already. :)
1542 2012-02-14 21:37:38 <BlueMatt> is there a way to list the commits that have occurred between two given tags?
1543 2012-02-14 21:37:45 <sipa> BlueMatt: shortlog
1544 2012-02-14 21:37:53 <BlueMatt> oh, ofc, knew there was
1545 2012-02-14 21:37:59 <sipa> git shortlog v0.5.2..v0.5.3rc2
1546 2012-02-14 21:38:16 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: if any of the other commits on 0.5.3 could even possibly be causing those deadlocks reported on rc1 then I feel much less easy about it.
1547 2012-02-14 21:38:45 <BlueMatt> commitlist: http://pastebin.com/KspzGpZX
1548 2012-02-14 21:39:21 <BlueMatt> oh, has anyone fixed the upnp unchecks itself after restart bug?
1549 2012-02-14 21:39:29 <sipa> no afaik
1550 2012-02-14 21:39:40 <BlueMatt> (that may have been a side effect of " Allow -upnp to override setting in wallet (and simplify logic a bit)"
1551 2012-02-14 21:39:59 <BlueMatt> or maybe the bigger -arg handling one
1552 2012-02-14 21:40:42 <sipa> gmaxwell: imho, the non-bugfix changes in 0.6 are much more likely to have caused that deadlock, but it's hard to tell for sure
1553 2012-02-14 21:41:01 <gavinandresen> yup, probably.  The command-line/wallet/gui/bitcoin.conf interactions are yucky
1554 2012-02-14 21:41:03 <BlueMatt> do we want a 0.5.2.1 that just has the addrMe stuff?
1555 2012-02-14 21:41:14 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: very...
1556 2012-02-14 21:41:23 <sipa> BlueMatt: if that deadlock isn't found, i'd say yes
1557 2012-02-14 21:41:28 <gmaxwell> sipa++
1558 2012-02-14 21:41:47 <BlueMatt> anyone want to volunteer to deal with making that happen then?
1559 2012-02-14 21:41:54 <gmaxwell> I don't want to risk encouraging people who are already having trouble onto a version that deadlocks.
1560 2012-02-14 21:41:56 phantomfakeBNC has joined
1561 2012-02-14 21:42:29 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1562 2012-02-14 21:43:03 m0mchil has joined
1563 2012-02-14 21:43:33 <sipa> btw: in an unrelated note,  can i get some an extra ack on https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/828 ?
1564 2012-02-14 21:44:53 phantomfakeBNC has joined
1565 2012-02-14 21:45:08 <gavinandresen> Ok, so TODO list for Feb 20:  gmaxwell will create a bitcoin.org/feb20 page.  I will send out a testnet alert tomorrow to make sure it'll work, and then send an alert on the main net... when?
1566 2012-02-14 21:45:34 <gmaxwell> sipa: I didn't ack before because the gymnastics required to avoid holding the lock while sleeping made the diff a little harder to read.
1567 2012-02-14 21:45:39 * BlueMatt votes for 24-hours before, but you have to be careful...
1568 2012-02-14 21:45:46 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: exactly 24 hours before the switch?
1569 2012-02-14 21:45:49 agricocb has joined
1570 2012-02-14 21:46:04 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1571 2012-02-14 21:46:08 <sipa> gmaxwell: yes i know, you should just compare the full old and new code side-by-side
1572 2012-02-14 21:46:08 <theymos> I say early Friday. Then more people will see it.
1573 2012-02-14 21:46:19 <sipa> we need to have 0.5.2.1 out by then
1574 2012-02-14 21:46:40 <sipa> with only a single patch, that should be doable
1575 2012-02-14 21:46:53 smoothie has quit (Quit: changing servers)
1576 2012-02-14 21:47:13 <gavinandresen> I also hate releasing code that we think fixes a problem that we can't reproduce... ah well
1577 2012-02-14 21:47:13 <gmaxwell> theymos: the reason I suggested 24 hours exactly was because it would make the time of the change more obvious, but I guess thats dumb because the alert won't only be seen at that instant so saying "24 hours from now" would be confusing.
1578 2012-02-14 21:47:26 h4ckm3 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1579 2012-02-14 21:47:48 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: The behavior is superior regardless: We shouldn't be leaking private addresses to the outside world. This is part of what makes me comfortable with it.
1580 2012-02-14 21:48:01 <sipa> gmaxwell: indeed
1581 2012-02-14 21:48:05 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: OK, if it is better all around then great.
1582 2012-02-14 21:48:13 <gmaxwell> (and the fact that the reference software at least (1) already sends zeros there when we're in proxy mode, and (2) never reads that field)
1583 2012-02-14 21:48:41 h4ckm3th32nd has joined
1584 2012-02-14 21:49:06 <sipa> gmaxwell: addrman does use that field, by the way
1585 2012-02-14 21:49:11 h4ckm3th32nd has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1586 2012-02-14 21:49:20 <gmaxwell> sipa: Thats good too. :)
1587 2012-02-14 21:49:32 <sipa> and multilocal uses the other one
1588 2012-02-14 21:49:39 <gavinandresen> Exact wording of alert?  I don't want to use words like "network instability"   How about   "See bitcoin.org/feb20 if you have connection problems after Feb. 20"
1589 2012-02-14 21:49:48 <gmaxwell> sipa: Yea.. I know why it's useful, otherwise I'd say make it always zeros.
1590 2012-02-14 21:50:09 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: looks good to me
1591 2012-02-14 21:50:17 smoothie has joined
1592 2012-02-14 21:50:18 <sipa> "Minor connectivity problems expected around Feb 20th 0:00 UTC"
1593 2012-02-14 21:50:29 <sipa> s/expected/possible/
1594 2012-02-14 21:50:40 <theymos> gavinandresen: Might be nice to put short text in other popular languages (Russian especially) after the English version.
1595 2012-02-14 21:51:33 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1596 2012-02-14 21:51:38 <BlueMatt> theymos: the link should work, we cant reasonably stuff 200 versions in one alert...
1597 2012-02-14 21:51:49 <gmaxwell> I like gavinandresen's approach better. One reason is that part of the feb. Feb20 story is that really old nodes need to be upgraded. We can't send an alert to those nodes, but presumably if any remain their owners also run newer versions too.
1598 2012-02-14 21:52:15 <gavinandresen> The really old versions don't show alerts, by the way....
1599 2012-02-14 21:52:33 <gavinandresen> ... and neither does the first Bitcoin-Qt release, if I recall correctly.
1600 2012-02-14 21:52:36 <gmaxwell> I know. thus the " also run newer versions too".
1601 2012-02-14 21:52:42 <sipa> when was that fixed in -qt?
1602 2012-02-14 21:52:52 <sipa> don't say in 0.6's window...
1603 2012-02-14 21:52:53 <gavinandresen> darn good question.  I don't remember
1604 2012-02-14 21:53:04 <gavinandresen> Hence the testnet test....
1605 2012-02-14 21:53:31 <sipa> pullreq #700
1606 2012-02-14 21:54:02 <sipa> yes, that was after 0.5.0
1607 2012-02-14 21:54:09 h4ckm3th32nd has joined
1608 2012-02-14 21:54:17 sacarlson has joined
1609 2012-02-14 21:54:28 <BlueMatt> damn...
1610 2012-02-14 21:54:39 <sipa> it was fixed in 0.5.1
1611 2012-02-14 21:54:48 <gmaxwell> sipa: does your collector report _any_ <=0.2.9 nodes listening?
1612 2012-02-14 21:54:55 h4ckm3th32nd is now known as h4ckm3
1613 2012-02-14 21:55:23 <sipa> gmaxwell: i ignore nodes before 0.3.19, i think
1614 2012-02-14 21:55:27 <sipa> but i could make it spit out a warning
1615 2012-02-14 21:56:02 <gmaxwell> sipa: could you? It would be interesting to be able to say we scanned and found N of them.
1616 2012-02-14 21:56:26 * BlueMatt will have them...
1617 2012-02-14 21:56:32 <theymos> Does the IRC nick contain version info? If so, #bitcoin logs could be analyzed.
1618 2012-02-14 21:56:46 <BlueMatt> lowest I have seen is 0.3.17
1619 2012-02-14 21:56:53 <gavinandresen> No, just IP/port in the nick, if I recall
1620 2012-02-14 21:57:33 <gavinandresen> Ready for agenda item number 3?  This is the fun one....
1621 2012-02-14 21:57:57 <sipa> gmaxwell: done, but those nodes could already be banned for a long time
1622 2012-02-14 21:58:01 <sipa> i'll clear my bans
1623 2012-02-14 21:58:29 <gmaxwell> sipa: thanks.
1624 2012-02-14 21:59:28 <gavinandresen> Last agenda item is dealing with duplicate coinbases.  I really like ByteCoin's/gmaxwell's idea to put the block height in the coinbase
1625 2012-02-14 21:59:41 <gavinandresen> ... and I've implemented that:  https://github.com/gavinandresen/bitcoin-git/tree/discourageblocks
1626 2012-02-14 22:00:26 <gavinandresen> But rolling it out needs thought
1627 2012-02-14 22:00:49 <theymos> Seems like a good, stateless solution. Wish I'd thought of it (or remembered it from my argument with ByteCoin).
1628 2012-02-14 22:01:51 <gmaxwell> I think we consider rolling out adding the height in 0.6. Simply adding it is safe, it will take adoption time because the mining severs need to be updated to cope with it.
1629 2012-02-14 22:02:01 <gavinandresen> Simplest rollout would be to just release code that adds the height to the coinbase, and then start discouraging blocks once X% of the previous-Y-blocks have upgraded.
1630 2012-02-14 22:02:05 <gmaxwell> The discouraging is tricker and needs careful testing.
1631 2012-02-14 22:02:38 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: commit says 80%, I would argue for more
1632 2012-02-14 22:02:51 <BlueMatt> like 85-90
1633 2012-02-14 22:03:06 <sipa> i liked luke's idea of first only discouraging when there is a conflict
1634 2012-02-14 22:03:16 <theymos> Why is discouraging necessary? Can't they just be rejected outright after 95% of miners are doing it?
1635 2012-02-14 22:03:55 <sipa> because you can start doing that right away, and if that gets deployed, other miners know that their discouragements will be accepted by others
1636 2012-02-14 22:04:58 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1637 2012-02-14 22:05:18 <gmaxwell> Conflict checking is cheap now (since we're not pruined). If it makes people more comfortable then we should do that.
1638 2012-02-14 22:06:06 <gavinandresen> "conflict checking" being "let the discouraged test resolve block race situations" ?
1639 2012-02-14 22:06:43 <sipa> gmaxwell: indeed: when a block is received that is of equal height to the current best, but is not discouraged, while the other one is, let it win
1640 2012-02-14 22:07:16 <gavinandresen> The only reason I don't like that is it means more code for a situation that very rarely happens (anybody have stats on how often block races occur?)
1641 2012-02-14 22:07:30 <gmaxwell> Every day.
1642 2012-02-14 22:07:39 agricocb has joined
1643 2012-02-14 22:07:42 <sipa> it *will* happen once actual discouragment is done
1644 2012-02-14 22:07:45 <gmaxwell> IIRC blockchain.info is down right now but they have a list.
1645 2012-02-14 22:08:13 <gmaxwell> Well, we could check for duplicate coinbases and discourage only on that.
1646 2012-02-14 22:08:52 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: yes, I was thinking that might be the right thing to do.  If X% have upgraded, and you see a block with a dup coinbase, discourage it
1647 2012-02-14 22:08:58 <gavinandresen> ... where X > 50%
1648 2012-02-14 22:09:38 <gavinandresen> And maybe:  if 100% have upgraded and you see a block without the height, discourage
1649 2012-02-14 22:09:49 <gmaxwell> Then later, when it's close to we take out that code and add code that says when 100% of the last 2016 have the height make it a protocol rule forever?
1650 2012-02-14 22:10:03 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: yes, something like that
1651 2012-02-14 22:10:16 PK has quit ()
1652 2012-02-14 22:10:17 <gmaxwell> s/when it's close to/when it's close to 100%/
1653 2012-02-14 22:10:31 <luke-jr> was there actually a fix in 0.5.3 that could cause problems?
1654 2012-02-14 22:10:42 * Raccoon has no idea what's being discussed, but it looks interesting.
1655 2012-02-14 22:10:47 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: we don't know whats causing the 0.6rc1 problems.
1656 2012-02-14 22:10:50 m00p has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1657 2012-02-14 22:11:07 <Raccoon> anything that can be exploited for gain?
1658 2012-02-14 22:11:13 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: okay, yea I'm of the view that height in coinbase should eventually become a protocol rule, but the timeframe on that should be something like 1 year or so.
1659 2012-02-14 22:11:33 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: the only thing I see that could *remotely* be a problem is the new UPnP code
1660 2012-02-14 22:11:45 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: agreed.  I do think it is important to start discouraging dup coinbases ASAP, though.
1661 2012-02-14 22:11:51 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1662 2012-02-14 22:12:03 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: I haven't looked yet, can you see if the diff has _any_ obvious changes in locking behavior?
1663 2012-02-14 22:12:51 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: yes. Unfortunately the short term improvements aren't zero risk. (well other than getting the heights in, which only lubricates real fixes down the road)
1664 2012-02-14 22:13:08 <gavinandresen> nothing is zero risk....
1665 2012-02-14 22:13:10 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: git diff v0.5.2..v0.5.3rc2 | grep -i 'mutex\|[^b]lock\|critical\|section' <-- no results
1666 2012-02-14 22:13:45 sacarlson has joined
1667 2012-02-14 22:13:46 <luke-jr> otoh, compared to master there are lots
1668 2012-02-14 22:14:16 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: Thats comforting at least. (not proof, it could be missing one where its needed)
1669 2012-02-14 22:15:20 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: I just wish we had a mechanism that was a little simpler.
1670 2012-02-14 22:16:35 <gmaxwell> In any case. So— whats the timeframe here? Do we think we can do something discourage-related in 0.6?
1671 2012-02-14 22:16:49 <gmaxwell> I _do_ think we can get the height deployed _now_ and we should start doing that.
1672 2012-02-14 22:17:28 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: yes, putting height in the coinbase can happen for 0.6, that is pretty easy (gotta figure out how that is exposed in getmemorypool....)
1673 2012-02-14 22:17:50 <gmaxwell> change the spec so that flags goes on the front?
1674 2012-02-14 22:18:03 <gmaxwell> Or add a pre-flags field. :-/
1675 2012-02-14 22:18:10 <gavinandresen> I don't think it matters WHERE in the coinbase the height goes
1676 2012-02-14 22:18:19 topace has joined
1677 2012-02-14 22:18:20 <sipa> does any flag-based behaviour depend on where it is placed?
1678 2012-02-14 22:18:27 <sipa> i think not
1679 2012-02-14 22:18:42 denisx has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1680 2012-02-14 22:18:48 <gmaxwell> So, right now it would be reasonable for an implementation to truncate the flags if it had other stuff to add. It's _not_ reasonable to truncate the height.
1681 2012-02-14 22:18:49 denisx has joined
1682 2012-02-14 22:18:55 <luke-jr> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/551099/ <-- actual code changes (858 lines)
1683 2012-02-14 22:19:18 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: see https://github.com/gavinandresen/bitcoin-git/commit/498c25a6cc39d92206556257e829587d6205ada1
1684 2012-02-14 22:19:32 RazielZ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1685 2012-02-14 22:19:37 <gavinandresen> ... for a first cut.  Puts height in the coinbaseflags but also adds height to fields
1686 2012-02-14 22:20:46 <gmaxwell> Perhaps the right thing to do for getmemorypool is to just add the height and tell implementors they must put it in.
1687 2012-02-14 22:20:57 <gmaxwell> Seems like something that could be deployed in /days/ basically.
1688 2012-02-14 22:20:58 <gavinandresen> Mmm.  That's what I'm wondering
1689 2012-02-14 22:21:20 <gmaxwell> forrestv: luke-jr: any opinions?
1690 2012-02-14 22:21:35 p0s has joined
1691 2012-02-14 22:21:50 <gmaxwell> Well, absent complaints from users of getmemorypool I think thats the way to go.
1692 2012-02-14 22:22:07 <luke-jr> fwiw, there is a pending replacement to getmemorypool's coinbaseflags (ACK'd by forrestv)
1693 2012-02-14 22:22:40 <gmaxwell> hm?
1694 2012-02-14 22:22:48 <BlueMatt> link?
1695 2012-02-14 22:22:57 <luke-jr> Coinbaser makes it a JSON Object with key:hexvalue pairs
1696 2012-02-14 22:23:09 <luke-jr> could have a special identifier for prefix vs suffix
1697 2012-02-14 22:23:13 <luke-jr> req vs optional too maybe
1698 2012-02-14 22:23:14 <gmaxwell> ah, okay, yea, more reason this shouldn't be a coinbase flag.
1699 2012-02-14 22:23:44 <gmaxwell> It's really retconning the coinbase field's meaning, not a flag. It will eventually be a protocol rule.
1700 2012-02-14 22:23:44 <luke-jr> if it's going to be a protocol rule, I'd just assume add a height to the top-level object
1701 2012-02-14 22:24:13 <gmaxwell> Do we really want the syntax to be as push opcode than the integer? or should it just be the integer directly?
1702 2012-02-14 22:24:23 <luke-jr> integer directly IMO
1703 2012-02-14 22:24:38 <gmaxwell> Seems wasteful to burn a byte there forever.
1704 2012-02-14 22:24:47 <sipa> aren't there problems with putting non-valid scripts in the coinbase?
1705 2012-02-14 22:24:53 <luke-jr> sipa: not that I've seen
1706 2012-02-14 22:25:09 <gmaxwell> hmph.
1707 2012-02-14 22:25:32 <luke-jr> otoh, I wasn't following the merged mining protocol strictly for a while and it still worked <.<
1708 2012-02-14 22:25:46 <Diablo-D3> lol?
1709 2012-02-14 22:26:11 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: how big is the opcode?
1710 2012-02-14 22:26:11 <gmaxwell> Thats a good question.
1711 2012-02-14 22:26:15 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: a byte.
1712 2012-02-14 22:26:23 <Diablo-D3> and luke wants to push an entire int?!
1713 2012-02-14 22:26:29 <luke-jr> …
1714 2012-02-14 22:26:44 <luke-jr> it's opcode+int vs int only
1715 2012-02-14 22:26:50 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: no no, the opcode that signals pushing the int32 is a byte.
1716 2012-02-14 22:26:57 <gmaxwell> As luke-jr says.
1717 2012-02-14 22:27:18 <gmaxwell> My preference is the int only. It's a weak one that goes away if there is any problem with existing software there.
1718 2012-02-14 22:27:27 <gavinandresen> I don't really care, except that consistency with existing bitcoin code would be push opcode+int
1719 2012-02-14 22:27:30 <Diablo-D3> how would you push it?
1720 2012-02-14 22:27:34 <gmaxwell> But I think not, because people have been just happily stuffing all kinds of garbage there.
1721 2012-02-14 22:27:34 <Diablo-D3> it'd require int24
1722 2012-02-14 22:27:53 <gavinandresen> (I think bitcointools did break at one point because it was trying to decode coinbase scriptsigs)
1723 2012-02-14 22:28:36 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: I think the consistency is resolved by this eventually becoming a protocol rule. Does the resident consistency nazi agree?
1724 2012-02-14 22:28:55 dub has quit (Changing host)
1725 2012-02-14 22:28:55 dub has joined
1726 2012-02-14 22:29:05 <gavinandresen> "First four bytes of coinbase are the block height, encoded in mumble-endian"
1727 2012-02-14 22:29:11 <twobitcoins> If the height is allowed to go anywhere in the coinbase, the same coinbase may contain multiple heights, so the height check alone doesn't guarantee uniqueness.
1728 2012-02-14 22:29:17 <twobitcoins> Even if the height is forced to be at the beginning, it may not guarantee uniqueness: some old coinbase may have something looking like a future height at the beginning.
1729 2012-02-14 22:29:18 <Diablo-D3> mumble-endian?!
1730 2012-02-14 22:29:52 <gmaxwell> twobitcoins: it's not allowed to go anywhere.
1731 2012-02-14 22:31:16 <twobitcoins> Unless we carefully study past coinbases, it seems that checking actual hashes is necessary anyway to be completely sure that uniqueness is enforced.
1732 2012-02-14 22:31:54 <luke-jr> twobitcoins has a good point
1733 2012-02-14 22:32:07 <luke-jr> let's leave off the opcode, since old blocks are almost all using opcodes <.<
1734 2012-02-14 22:32:21 <gavinandresen> okey doke, good points.
1735 2012-02-14 22:32:36 <gmaxwell> twobitcoins: Thats still a finite set, but it's a good point— though we could try to solve it.
1736 2012-02-14 22:32:58 <gmaxwell> It's very likely that there are many bytes which have not been used in the first position.
1737 2012-02-14 22:33:04 <luke-jr> can we scan the existing blockchain for potentially-problematic coinbases easily?
1738 2012-02-14 22:33:11 <gavinandresen> Sure
1739 2012-02-14 22:33:38 <gmaxwell> So we could have, e.g. 0xFF,height. And be successful so long as a grifer doesn't get a block out before this is fully deployed.
1740 2012-02-14 22:33:48 <gavinandresen> ... just look for blocks where the first four bytes can be interpreted as a reasonable block height
1741 2012-02-14 22:33:55 <gmaxwell> Otherwise, we could still just carry around a finite table of troublemaker hashes.
1742 2012-02-14 22:34:24 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1743 2012-02-14 22:35:02 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: 0x00 would be more forward-compatible
1744 2012-02-14 22:35:03 <josephcp> what about existing duplicates? e.g. https://blockexplorer.com/b/91880
1745 2012-02-14 22:35:22 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1746 2012-02-14 22:35:42 <gmaxwell> josephcp: They aren't an issue under the concern issue of concern.
1747 2012-02-14 22:35:48 JRWR has joined
1748 2012-02-14 22:36:00 <josephcp> ok
1749 2012-02-14 22:36:29 <gmaxwell> (there might be some other problem related to them that I'm currently unaware of, but right now the only trouble pattern involves 'mine spend minedupe')
1750 2012-02-14 22:36:36 <josephcp> just concerned that they can still be spent in the future i think?
1751 2012-02-14 22:36:57 <gmaxwell> josephcp: That should not be an issue.
1752 2012-02-14 22:36:57 <josephcp> yeah, preventing any more is a more current concern
1753 2012-02-14 22:37:07 <gmaxwell> josephcp: no no.
1754 2012-02-14 22:37:40 <josephcp> sorry i just looked mid-conversation
1755 2012-02-14 22:37:41 <gmaxwell> josephcp: The problematic pattern involves spending during or inbetween the duplication. dupes 'in a row' are okay unless there are more issues.
1756 2012-02-14 22:37:59 clark_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1757 2012-02-14 22:38:06 <josephcp> oh i see
1758 2012-02-14 22:39:03 useryjy has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1759 2012-02-14 22:39:10 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: 0x00 seemed pretty likely to me.
1760 2012-02-14 22:39:26 <gavinandresen> Ok, I'll put looking at previous coinbases on my TODO list, if anybody feels like tackling that it aught to be a fun little project
1761 2012-02-14 22:39:28 <josephcp> gotcha, if you can prevent another dupe in the future it'll solve it
1762 2012-02-14 22:39:28 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: luke-jr opened issue 836 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/836>
1763 2012-02-14 22:39:32 <forrestv> for getmemorypool: some new field like "required_coinbase_prefix" is probably the best course, so implementors don't have to worry about blockchain-specific rules as much
1764 2012-02-14 22:39:56 <gavinandresen> forrestv: hex-encoded I assume?
1765 2012-02-14 22:40:11 <forrestv> yes
1766 2012-02-14 22:40:13 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: if not, then it will be fine already using BE order.
1767 2012-02-14 22:40:21 <sipa> gmaxwell: not true
1768 2012-02-14 22:40:30 <sipa> wait
1769 2012-02-14 22:40:52 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: can you publish whatever code you have to analyze blocks?
1770 2012-02-14 22:40:54 <sipa> gmaxwell: generate-(fork-generate-reorg)-spend is a problem
1771 2012-02-14 22:41:21 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: https://github.com/gavinandresen/bitcointools
1772 2012-02-14 22:41:26 <luke-jr> ty]
1773 2012-02-14 22:41:40 <gmaxwell> sipa: Yes. Or:  generate spend generate spend-dupe .. and then do the above with the duplicated non-generate txn.
1774 2012-02-14 22:42:15 <luke-jr> we could always set a time limit on the pre-height coinbases ;)
1775 2012-02-14 22:42:39 ovidiusoft has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1776 2012-02-14 22:42:43 <luke-jr> "by block X, we will see a potential duplicate, so at that point all coinbases before block Y are invalid unless spent"
1777 2012-02-14 22:42:51 <luke-jr> assuming X is years away
1778 2012-02-14 22:43:23 phantomcircuit has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1779 2012-02-14 22:43:32 smickles is now known as smickles|idle
1780 2012-02-14 22:43:47 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: blah, too disruptive. Better to just carry a list of height emulating values. Which may be zero if no blocks begin with \0x00
1781 2012-02-14 22:43:54 <gavinandresen> OK, I'm going to declare the meeting over unless there's anything else pressing
1782 2012-02-14 22:43:58 <gmaxwell> (or if they do but we add an additional prefix byte).
1783 2012-02-14 22:44:07 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: the St. Valentines exchanging!
1784 2012-02-14 22:44:23 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: yea, what happened to exchanging st. Valentines-themed addresses?
1785 2012-02-14 22:44:25 <gavinandresen> Right!  Lets all spam testnet with meaningless drivel!
1786 2012-02-14 22:44:36 <luke-jr> but I generated mine on mainnet :<
1787 2012-02-14 22:44:57 <luke-jr> 1Martyr7QedWCA6LZ53wZnkes8tkgTFiLZ
1788 2012-02-14 22:45:12 <gavinandresen> What kind of valentine's day message is Qed?
1789 2012-02-14 22:45:24 <luke-jr> "Martyr" silly
1790 2012-02-14 22:45:26 * BlueMatt went with a more traditional 1Va1enHuGm7YrBgTGeuC3CiLYVi7f1Tmi (the HuG was a happy accident :) )
1791 2012-02-14 22:45:28 <gavinandresen> :)
1792 2012-02-14 22:45:53 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I think you mean less traditional :p
1793 2012-02-14 22:46:01 <BlueMatt> sure
1794 2012-02-14 22:46:40 xorrbit has joined
1795 2012-02-14 22:46:45 <xorrbit> hi
1796 2012-02-14 22:46:47 jim618 has left ()
1797 2012-02-14 22:46:48 <BlueMatt> anyway, meeting over sounds good
1798 2012-02-14 22:46:52 <xorrbit> where are protocol changes documented?
1799 2012-02-14 22:47:09 * luke-jr sends BlueMatt 1 TBC :P
1800 2012-02-14 22:47:19 <luke-jr> xorrbit: new ones or old ones?
1801 2012-02-14 22:47:30 smickles is now known as idle!~michael@cpe-071-070-169-083.nc.res.rr.com|smickles
1802 2012-02-14 22:47:35 <xorrbit> new ones I suppose
1803 2012-02-14 22:47:39 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
1804 2012-02-14 22:47:41 <luke-jr> see the BIP process
1805 2012-02-14 22:47:49 <xorrbit> or no old ones
1806 2012-02-14 22:47:56 <xorrbit> 0.5.1 -> 0.5.2 specifically
1807 2012-02-14 22:48:19 <luke-jr> no protocol changes there afaik
1808 2012-02-14 22:48:21 <sipa> xorrbit: there have not been any protocol changes ever, afaik
1809 2012-02-14 22:48:26 * BlueMatt reciprocates with some dust (since apparently no one else bothered to come up with the required valentines-themed addresses...)
1810 2012-02-14 22:48:29 <luke-jr> sipa: Feb20
1811 2012-02-14 22:48:31 <BlueMatt> (except luke)
1812 2012-02-14 22:48:33 pickett has joined
1813 2012-02-14 22:48:36 <sipa> luke-jr: that's in the future :)
1814 2012-02-14 22:48:39 <xorrbit> okay well I'm seeing some weird behaviour
1815 2012-02-14 22:48:54 <xorrbit> I'll run it past you lot, see if you can make sense of it
1816 2012-02-14 22:48:58 <BlueMatt> well unless your clock is off by days, its not because of feb20th
1817 2012-02-14 22:49:03 <luke-jr> xorrbit: O.o
1818 2012-02-14 22:49:42 <xorrbit> I'm seeing an extra 4 bytes of data coming from *some* clients (0.5.2) when doing a getaddr, right after the count and right before the first addr structure (timestamp, ip, etc)
1819 2012-02-14 22:50:00 <luke-jr> xorrbit: those clients apparently have their clocks way off
1820 2012-02-14 22:50:08 <luke-jr> it has nothing to do with 0.5.2 tho
1821 2012-02-14 22:50:13 <xorrbit> oh okay
1822 2012-02-14 22:50:29 <xorrbit> what do you mean though
1823 2012-02-14 22:50:34 smickles has quit (Quit: rage quit)
1824 2012-02-14 22:50:38 <luke-jr> it's been part of every client for the last 2 years
1825 2012-02-14 22:50:44 <gmaxwell> xorrbit: those are clients in the future..
1826 2012-02-14 22:50:48 <luke-jr> on Feb 20, they start including checksums with version messages
1827 2012-02-14 22:50:48 smickles has joined
1828 2012-02-14 22:50:55 <gmaxwell> 6 days in the future or more.
1829 2012-02-14 22:50:57 <xorrbit> ohh
1830 2012-02-14 22:50:57 <btc_novice> you're seeing this in the addr message that is returned?
1831 2012-02-14 22:50:58 smickles has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1833 2012-02-14 22:51:07 <xorrbit> yeah seeing this in getaddr
1834 2012-02-14 22:51:10 <xorrbit> right now
1835 2012-02-14 22:51:20 <btc_novice> what do you mean in getaddr?
1836 2012-02-14 22:51:22 * BlueMatt ponders a patch to outright block any freestanding txes which are non-sendmulti and from 1VayNert...
1837 2012-02-14 22:51:27 <btc_novice> In addr or what message?
1838 2012-02-14 22:51:47 <elombrozo> who is 1VayNert?
1839 2012-02-14 22:51:53 <gmaxwell> elombrozo: deepbit.
1840 2012-02-14 22:51:53 <sipa> elombrozo: deepbit
1841 2012-02-14 22:52:03 <elombrozo> ah, that explains a lot :)
1842 2012-02-14 22:52:03 <xorrbit> like I do a getaddr request and in the response I get the header and stuff that should end with the count, but instead has 4 extra bytes, then gives all the addr blocks
1843 2012-02-14 22:52:10 <gmaxwell> elombrozo: through the lack of use of sendmulti it's about 27% of the transactions recently.
1844 2012-02-14 22:52:24 <sipa> xorrbit: you send getaddr before verack?
1845 2012-02-14 22:52:24 dsgalsald has quit ()
1846 2012-02-14 22:52:28 <btc_novice> xorrbit: okay, that's the "addr" message
1847 2012-02-14 22:52:30 <sipa> (you shouldn't)
1848 2012-02-14 22:52:58 <xorrbit> nono, this is after verack
1849 2012-02-14 22:52:59 <xorrbit> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification#getaddr
1850 2012-02-14 22:53:20 <luke-jr> sipa: somehow clients seem to
1851 2012-02-14 22:53:46 <btc_novice> xorrbit: are you taking into account that the "count" is a variable-sized int?
1852 2012-02-14 22:53:54 <xorrbit> no
1853 2012-02-14 22:54:04 <sipa> xorrbit: after receiving verack?
1854 2012-02-14 22:54:05 <btc_novice> there you go then.
1855 2012-02-14 22:54:10 <xorrbit> hmm
1856 2012-02-14 22:54:15 <BlueMatt> oh, actually, we should get Con Kolivas to ban connections to deepbit from new versions of cgminer until he switches
1857 2012-02-14 22:54:18 <xorrbit> ah
1858 2012-02-14 22:54:19 <BlueMatt> and Diablo-D3
1859 2012-02-14 22:54:19 <xorrbit> I see
1860 2012-02-14 22:54:24 <xorrbit> fucking varint
1861 2012-02-14 22:54:25 <btc_novice> xorrbit: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification#Variable_length_integer
1862 2012-02-14 22:54:28 <Diablo-D3> huh?
1863 2012-02-14 22:54:29 <xorrbit> man I'm dumb sometimes
1864 2012-02-14 22:54:33 <xorrbit> thanks a lot for the help
1865 2012-02-14 22:54:34 <btc_novice> it can be 1 to 9 bytes
1866 2012-02-14 22:54:34 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: ban connections to deepbit in DM
1867 2012-02-14 22:54:38 <Diablo-D3> why?
1868 2012-02-14 22:54:42 <Diablo-D3> and how much are you paying me to do it?
1869 2012-02-14 22:54:42 JRWR has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1870 2012-02-14 22:54:46 <btc_novice> np xorrbit
1871 2012-02-14 22:54:50 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: to make [Tycho] switch to sendmulti
1872 2012-02-14 22:54:54 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: 1 BTC sound good?
1873 2012-02-14 22:55:10 _h4ckm3 has joined
1874 2012-02-14 22:55:15 <Diablo-D3> dude, why dont I just make DM only work on p2pool.
1875 2012-02-14 22:55:18 <Diablo-D3> should solve all the issues.
1876 2012-02-14 22:55:22 <BlueMatt> actually, that sounds better
1877 2012-02-14 22:55:23 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: how about a patch that adds a red "SPAM" in the GUI to those transactions. :)
1878 2012-02-14 22:55:32 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: oh, that one is good
1879 2012-02-14 22:55:41 <BlueMatt> (and easily doable)
1880 2012-02-14 22:55:48 <Diablo-D3> why the fuck dont all pools just use gen tx?
1881 2012-02-14 22:55:54 <Diablo-D3> makes shit so much easier
1882 2012-02-14 22:55:55 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: I contemplated making code to read a textfile which has a pattern matching rule, and displays flags like that.
1883 2012-02-14 22:56:02 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: because deepbit is poorly coded
1884 2012-02-14 22:56:07 <Diablo-D3> so what
1885 2012-02-14 22:56:14 <Diablo-D3> he can just proxy p2pool then
1886 2012-02-14 22:56:15 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: block height should be varint!
1887 2012-02-14 22:56:26 copumpkin has joined
1888 2012-02-14 22:56:30 <xorrbit> okay but what about this feb 20th thing
1889 2012-02-14 22:56:35 <xorrbit> is that documented somewhere
1890 2012-02-14 22:56:43 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: because [Tycho] is lazy and doesnt want to properly code deepbit?
1891 2012-02-14 22:56:46 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification
1892 2012-02-14 22:56:47 <xorrbit> I have a feeling that's going to bite me in...6 days :P
1893 2012-02-14 22:56:54 <Diablo-D3> I should start a new pool
1894 2012-02-14 22:56:57 <Diablo-D3> for the epic lulzery
1895 2012-02-14 22:56:57 <btc_novice> xorrbit: on feb 20 version and verack message will start including the checksum.
1896 2012-02-14 22:57:04 <Diablo-D3> a pool to beat all pools
1897 2012-02-14 22:57:15 <BlueMatt> because, seriously, implementing a tx queue to do sendmulti or put it in coinbase is so little effort, there is no way in hell I would ever mine on a pool where the owner is too lazy to do that...
1898 2012-02-14 22:57:16 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: even p2pool?
1899 2012-02-14 22:57:23 <denisx> my pool is running on 0.5.2 nicely since some days now
1900 2012-02-14 22:57:25 <Diablo-D3> EVEN P2POOL!
1901 2012-02-14 22:57:37 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it's only little effort when someone pulls Coinbaser
1902 2012-02-14 22:57:47 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: well thats only true of the second
1903 2012-02-14 22:57:54 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: tx queue for sendmulti is easier
1904 2012-02-14 22:58:00 <luke-jr> I suppose
1905 2012-02-14 22:58:06 <Diablo-D3> sendmulti still fees.
1906 2012-02-14 22:58:13 <luke-jr> true
1907 2012-02-14 22:58:19 <luke-jr> need my force_send branch :p
1908 2012-02-14 22:58:21 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: not if you are a miner
1909 2012-02-14 22:58:27 <BlueMatt> (and feel like hacking a bit)
1910 2012-02-14 22:58:36 <Diablo-D3> you missed the point.
1911 2012-02-14 22:58:39 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: this is back to "little effort"
1912 2012-02-14 22:58:46 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: he already doesnt pay fees
1913 2012-02-14 22:58:47 <Diablo-D3> pools should only use gen tx spam
1914 2012-02-14 22:58:49 <BlueMatt> (on dust txes)
1915 2012-02-14 22:59:06 <sipa> i was planning to implement a "preparetransaction" RPC call, which would create a tx, and mark its inputs used, but not actually send out the transaction yes
1916 2012-02-14 22:59:18 <BlueMatt> iirc gmaxwell said he was already doing that
1917 2012-02-14 22:59:19 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: so get on the Coinbaser pullreq and troll like you do best
1918 2012-02-14 22:59:22 <sipa> so you could inspect it, and possible cancel that
1919 2012-02-14 22:59:26 <denisx> miners will flee from a nonworking pool faster than you think
1920 2012-02-14 22:59:31 <sipa> now combine that with auto-sendmany'ing...
1921 2012-02-14 22:59:46 <Diablo-D3> no, Ill just make a better pool
1922 2012-02-14 22:59:47 <luke-jr> denisx: no, they won't.
1923 2012-02-14 22:59:52 <Diablo-D3> one that requires no login
1924 2012-02-14 22:59:52 <BlueMatt> denisx: so we should ddos deepbit to death?
1925 2012-02-14 23:00:00 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: sounds like Eligius
1926 2012-02-14 23:00:00 <xorrbit> thanks
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1929 2012-02-14 23:00:07 <luke-jr> bbl
1930 2012-02-14 23:00:07 <Diablo-D3> one that has working graphs
1931 2012-02-14 23:00:10 * BlueMatt has 100mbps he can donate to the cause (probably more if he puts some nice ddosing code on other people's laptops)
1932 2012-02-14 23:00:16 <Diablo-D3> and one that is doing 300 ghash out of the box or something
1933 2012-02-14 23:00:42 <doublec> bitcoind developers talking about ddosing pools is not a good look...
1934 2012-02-14 23:00:54 <BlueMatt> doublec: Im not a developer, so I dont count :)
1935 2012-02-14 23:01:01 <sipa> BlueMatt: sure you are
1936 2012-02-14 23:01:02 <denisx> I never said ddos
1937 2012-02-14 23:01:11 <doublec> denisx: referring to BlueMatt
1938 2012-02-14 23:01:12 <BlueMatt> doublec: also, its to the point where something should really be done...
1939 2012-02-14 23:01:16 <BlueMatt> sipa: not officially :)
1940 2012-02-14 23:01:18 <gmaxwell> man, I look away ... and this is what I find?
1941 2012-02-14 23:01:26 * gmaxwell wags his finger
1942 2012-02-14 23:01:30 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: #bitcoin*, what did you expect?
1943 2012-02-14 23:01:34 <sipa> i hope nobody seriously considers ddos'ing
1944 2012-02-14 23:01:41 <Diablo-D3> well
1945 2012-02-14 23:01:44 <Diablo-D3> what we could all do
1946 2012-02-14 23:01:47 <Diablo-D3> is hop on deepbit
1947 2012-02-14 23:01:49 <Diablo-D3> and all mine on it
1948 2012-02-14 23:01:52 <Diablo-D3> thus ddosing his server
1949 2012-02-14 23:01:53 <gmaxwell> It was obviously joking, but still.
1950 2012-02-14 23:01:55 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: and that helps how???
1951 2012-02-14 23:01:56 <Diablo-D3> since it cant handle 8TH
1952 2012-02-14 23:01:56 <gmaxwell> Stop.
1953 2012-02-14 23:02:03 MC1984 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1954 2012-02-14 23:02:15 <BlueMatt> anyway...
1955 2012-02-14 23:02:18 MC1984 has joined
1956 2012-02-14 23:02:34 <sipa> really, you can encourage Tycho to upgrade, or you can make deepbit's problem known to its users
1957 2012-02-14 23:02:43 <sipa> but there's nothing else you should do
1958 2012-02-14 23:02:48 <denisx> Diablo-D3: its not the submit of proofs which is expensive, it is the request of work!
1959 2012-02-14 23:03:14 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: Why not try approaching him and offer to do any required coding?
1960 2012-02-14 23:03:26 <denisx> maybe you should promote clean pools more
1961 2012-02-14 23:03:27 <BlueMatt> sipa: yea, whoever runs bitcointalk should put up a permanent banner saying "dont mine on deepbit"
1962 2012-02-14 23:03:40 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: I would absolutely do the coding
1963 2012-02-14 23:03:53 <BlueMatt> (doubt he would let me touch his servers though, rightfully so)
1964 2012-02-14 23:03:56 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: I'm just curious, why are you suddenly more concerned then you were previously?
1965 2012-02-14 23:03:57 <Diablo-D3> denisx: ooh! disable rollntime on deepbit
1966 2012-02-14 23:04:00 <BlueMatt> (in fact, if he did let me touch his servers...)
1967 2012-02-14 23:04:01 <Diablo-D3> and make it pull ten times faster
1968 2012-02-14 23:04:10 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: Ive always been concerned, but rarely get on the topic
1969 2012-02-14 23:05:52 MagicalTux has quit (Excess Flood)
1970 2012-02-14 23:06:18 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: well, email him and offer at least.
1971 2012-02-14 23:07:34 <BlueMatt> ;;later tell [Tycho] if you are too lazy to implement sendmulti, how about this: you give me the necessary resources and Ill implement it for you.
1972 2012-02-14 23:07:35 <gribble> Error: "Tycho" is not a valid command.
1973 2012-02-14 23:07:43 <BlueMatt> ;;later tell "[Tycho]" if you are too lazy to implement sendmulti, how about this: you give me the necessary resources and Ill implement it for you.
1974 2012-02-14 23:07:44 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
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1990 2012-02-14 23:30:02 <copumpkin> wow, did you guys see the "break" of RSA?
1991 2012-02-14 23:30:33 <cjd> link?
1992 2012-02-14 23:30:43 <copumpkin> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/15/technology/researchers-find-flaw-in-an-online-encryption-method.html?hp
1993 2012-02-14 23:30:47 <copumpkin> pop CS
1994 2012-02-14 23:30:51 <copumpkin> but I haven't looked carefully yet
1995 2012-02-14 23:30:59 <copumpkin> but apparently they just took all the pubkeys they could find and ran pairwise GCDs
1996 2012-02-14 23:31:09 <copumpkin> (of the moduli)
1997 2012-02-14 23:31:18 <copumpkin> if any of them weren't 1, then whoops
1998 2012-02-14 23:31:29 <copumpkin> and it turns out 0.2% of them weren't
1999 2012-02-14 23:38:56 <BlueMatt> damn
2000 2012-02-14 23:39:05 <BlueMatt> paper: http://eprint.iacr.org/2012/064.pdf
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2010 2012-02-14 23:49:53 <sipa> gmaxwell: just saw a 0.3.0 and a 0.3.15
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2012 2012-02-14 23:51:02 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: bad rng's in something I guess, enh?
2013 2012-02-14 23:51:08 <copumpkin> yeah
2014 2012-02-14 23:51:18 <copumpkin> well, that's what I'd assume
2015 2012-02-14 23:51:23 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2016 2012-02-14 23:51:40 <gmaxwell> or common broken software.
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2018 2012-02-14 23:52:11 <gmaxwell> I wonder if anyone has tried taking small primes against that dataset... I bet some people are using RSA with primes that aren't.
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