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 61 2012-02-19 03:21:20 <theymos> Gavin just sent the first-ever alert. :)
 62 2012-02-19 03:22:49 <gmaxwell>     "errors" : "See bitcoin.org/feb20 if you have trouble connecting after 20 February"
 63 2012-02-19 03:22:54 <gmaxwell> Indeed.
 64 2012-02-19 03:24:38 <gmaxwell> I see it even on my 0.3.19 node.
 65 2012-02-19 03:24:41 <gmaxwell> Good.
 66 2012-02-19 03:24:58 <gmaxwell> I'm surprised to not see people commenting about it on irc.
 67 2012-02-19 03:25:05 <theymos> I see it on 0.3.15, though the last half of the message is cut off.
 68 2012-02-19 03:25:17 <theymos> (In the GUI).
 69 2012-02-19 03:25:32 <gmaxwell> where does it cut off?
 70 2012-02-19 03:25:50 Nicksasa has joined
 71 2012-02-19 03:25:54 <theymos> if you have trouble connecting after...
 72 2012-02-19 03:26:06 <gmaxwell> okay. Thats not too terrible.
 73 2012-02-19 03:26:11 <theymos> Probably enough there in case of trouble, though more likely to cause panic.
 74 2012-02-19 03:26:59 <mcorlett> theymos: When was Gavin's key added?
 75 2012-02-19 03:27:12 <theymos> Satoshi's private key is shared.
 76 2012-02-19 03:28:03 <mcorlett> theymos: That's good. So it should display on every single version since the one in which the alert system was added, right?
 77 2012-02-19 03:28:16 <theymos> Yes.
 78 2012-02-19 03:28:18 <theymos> Is it OK for nRelayUntil to be only 15 minutes? Won't this prevent most people from seeing it?
 79 2012-02-19 03:28:25 gavinandresen has joined
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 81 2012-02-19 03:28:53 <mcorlett> Here he is!
 82 2012-02-19 03:29:05 <theymos> gavinandresen: Is it OK for for nRelayUntil to be only 15 minutes? Won't a lot of clients not see it? (2-day expiration also seems low.)
 83 2012-02-19 03:29:07 <gavinandresen> who, me?
 84 2012-02-19 03:30:38 <luke-jr> FWIW, some people are confusing Feb20 changes with the planned height-in-coinbase changes…
 85 2012-02-19 03:31:26 <gavinandresen> 15 minute relay:  If that's too short (newly connecting nodes get alerts from their peers, if I recall correctly) then I can re-issue.
 86 2012-02-19 03:31:33 <luke-jr> "The developers of the Bitcoin reference software are unable to find any evidence of any nodes still running software prior to 0.2.10 on the network." <-- didn't sipa report finding at least one?
 87 2012-02-19 03:31:57 <luke-jr> "This switchover has been tested and no significant disruption is expected." <-- that NAT issue could be considered significant…
 88 2012-02-19 03:32:16 <gavinandresen> theymos: I could re-send a higher priority alert for older versions with a shorter message (if you have a suggestion for one that will fit)
 89 2012-02-19 03:32:33 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: We don't expect it to impact many users, at least not based on what we know right now.
 90 2012-02-19 03:32:42 <theymos> gavinandresen: I thought alerts stopped being passed around at all after RelayUntil.
 91 2012-02-19 03:32:53 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: trying to balance length (and attention span) vs detail there.
 92 2012-02-19 03:33:04 Nick_ has joined
 93 2012-02-19 03:33:07 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: dunno, 0.1% seems like many among a large userbase
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 96 2012-02-19 03:33:41 <theymos> gavinandresen: Maybe "If Bitcoin stops working see bitcoin.org/feb20".
 97 2012-02-19 03:34:08 <theymos> Actually, that's not really better than the fragment already there.
 98 2012-02-19 03:35:51 <theymos> It's probably fine as is.
 99 2012-02-19 03:36:15 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: can you suggest some _short_ text that doesn't risk exagerating the issue (based on our current undertstanding) and also doesn't go into messyness about explaining nat?
100 2012-02-19 03:36:46 spq has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.1/20120208060813])
101 2012-02-19 03:36:57 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: I'd had a longer draft that mentioned it but it ended up being four sentences on something that will almost certantly impact <1% if not no one, so I cut it out.
102 2012-02-19 03:37:07 <gavinandresen> theymos: is there a tooltip with the full message?
103 2012-02-19 03:37:23 <theymos> No.
104 2012-02-19 03:37:47 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: ", except for some rare router bug which will have a workaround in 0.5.3"?
105 2012-02-19 03:39:38 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
106 2012-02-19 03:40:11 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: Until we have a victim we don't know if our proposed workaround will work! :)
107 2012-02-19 03:40:16 Nicksasa has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
108 2012-02-19 03:40:25 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: how can it not? O.o
109 2012-02-19 03:40:28 wasabi2 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
110 2012-02-19 03:40:34 <luke-jr> especially the "ignore checksums on version messages" one
111 2012-02-19 03:40:48 <gmaxwell> Well that one we're not currently planning on shipping unless we have to
112 2012-02-19 03:41:16 <gavinandresen> I predict the "rare router bug" turns out to be somebody messing with ipfilter/iptables and shooting themselves in the foot
113 2012-02-19 03:41:27 <cjd> is the problem proven to be real? I mean the irc_nat thing only deals with the ip in decimal format (how it's represented in DCC messages)
114 2012-02-19 03:41:27 <luke-jr> would be nice to ship it in 0.6 with a "phone home" if it ever has to ignore…
115 2012-02-19 03:41:38 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: many consumer NATs *are* iptables
116 2012-02-19 03:42:38 <luke-jr> also, with UPnP implementations being as vulnerable as they are (you can forward ports from the WAN side in many routers), it would not surprise me in the least that at least one model has this bug
117 2012-02-19 03:43:03 <cjd> what bug?
118 2012-02-19 03:43:18 <cjd> is there a iptables module which actually does this?
119 2012-02-19 03:43:22 <cjd> *an
120 2012-02-19 03:43:24 <luke-jr> cjd: apparently some NATs are replacing the LAN IP in the version message with a WAN IP
121 2012-02-19 03:44:07 <cjd> there's an iptables module which does it with DCC messages but they are decimal representations of the ip, not binary
122 2012-02-19 03:44:14 <luke-jr> cjd: apparently p2pool has seen it in the wild
123 2012-02-19 03:44:36 <Ukto> hmm
124 2012-02-19 03:44:42 * Ukto looks up, will 5.0 be effected
125 2012-02-19 03:44:44 <Ukto> ?
126 2012-02-19 03:45:04 <luke-jr> Ukto: I don't think we need to worry about 5.0 until long after 1.0 is released
127 2012-02-19 03:45:06 <luke-jr> <.<
128 2012-02-19 03:45:38 <luke-jr> (I'm not sure what you're asking, if you mean 0.5 ;)
129 2012-02-19 03:45:45 <Ukto> hehe yeah 0.5
130 2012-02-19 03:45:50 * cjd is calling myth on this one, if there was an iptables module which did that I'd be more concerned
131 2012-02-19 03:46:34 <gmaxwell> What actually triggers bitcoin.org to update from github? is there something I need to do?
132 2012-02-19 03:46:36 <gavinandresen> theymos: Just double-checked, sending un-expired alerts is part of the version handshake, so a 15-minute relay (flood) time should be plenty.
133 2012-02-19 03:47:12 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: nope, it is automagic
134 2012-02-19 03:47:20 <gmaxwell> Great.
135 2012-02-19 03:47:29 <theymos> gavinandresen: OK. Thanks for checking.
136 2012-02-19 03:47:38 <luke-jr> if it doesn't work, there's some URI to load to force it…
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138 2012-02-19 03:56:15 <gmaxwell> cjd: we weren't able to figure out _which_ nats did this, only that there exist $some in the wild. For all we know there is only two in existance, though that seems really unlikely.
139 2012-02-19 03:59:04 <cjd> oh so it's been repeated and is known to be real
140 2012-02-19 03:59:05 <cjd> hmm
141 2012-02-19 03:59:57 <gmaxwell> cjd: kinda, it was observed (by the far nodes reporting checksum errors) hitting two p2pool nodes, p2pool uses a protocol basically the same as the post feb20 bitcoin protocol.
142 2012-02-19 04:00:32 <gmaxwell> but we never heard from the actual users, so we don't know what firewalls they had that were doing it.
143 2012-02-19 04:00:42 <forrestv> let's try and track one down :P
144 2012-02-19 04:01:04 <cjd> did anyone tcpdump it and try to make something fit the checksum?
145 2012-02-19 04:01:22 <gmaxwell> cjd: thats basically how forrestv figured it out.
146 2012-02-19 04:02:03 <gmaxwell> forrestv: I dunno if you saw, but we have a workaround in bitcoin now— we now never put a RFC1918 address in that message.
147 2012-02-19 04:02:19 <gmaxwell> We'll either put the real address (possibly getting it from upnp) or 0.0.0.0.
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149 2012-02-19 04:02:57 <forrestv> ah, okay. i heard the talk about upnp, but not about falling back to 0.0.0.0. that makes sense
150 2012-02-19 04:02:58 <k9quaint> just write the IP address in sentence format
151 2012-02-19 04:03:16 <k9quaint> "ten dot one dot one dot two-hundred and fifty four"
152 2012-02-19 04:03:50 <gmaxwell> k9quaint: you, sir, will be responsible for creating skynet with that kind of thinking.
153 2012-02-19 04:04:04 <cjd> heh
154 2012-02-19 04:04:06 <k9quaint> or worse
155 2012-02-19 04:04:09 <k9quaint> another terminator movie
156 2012-02-19 04:04:26 <cjd> 23:10 < k9quaint> "ten dot one dot one dot two-hundred and fifty four" <-- jabber
157 2012-02-19 04:05:53 <cjd> forrestv: still have the ips of the affected users?
158 2012-02-19 04:06:12 <forrestv> cjd, only one
159 2012-02-19 04:06:15 <cjd> like were they corporate intranet or isp and if isp then what isp...
160 2012-02-19 04:06:40 * cjd could see some_corporate_firewall doing something that dumb
161 2012-02-19 04:07:49 <forrestv> cjd, at&t. hostname ends with dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net
162 2012-02-19 04:08:04 <cjd> ahah
163 2012-02-19 04:08:19 <cjd> I know someone who had an at&t nat
164 2012-02-19 04:08:24 <cjd> 3 second latency
165 2012-02-19 04:08:27 <cjd> nothing but trouble
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171 2012-02-19 04:16:19 <gmaxwell> The automagic for updating bitcoin.org appears to be very slow.
172 2012-02-19 04:17:46 <TuxBlackEdo> Suddenly the Dungeon collapses!! - You die...
173 2012-02-19 04:17:48 <TuxBlackEdo> wtf
174 2012-02-19 04:18:08 <TuxBlackEdo> first time i ever got that
175 2012-02-19 04:18:36 <Diablo-D3> nethack?
176 2012-02-19 04:18:42 <TuxBlackEdo> no
177 2012-02-19 04:18:47 <TuxBlackEdo> i left putty alone
178 2012-02-19 04:18:58 <TuxBlackEdo> and i went to go do somehting and i came back and it said that
179 2012-02-19 04:19:11 <Diablo-D3> strange, thats largely a nethack thing
180 2012-02-19 04:19:40 <TuxBlackEdo> oh it's something to do with screen
181 2012-02-19 04:23:36 graingert has joined
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183 2012-02-19 04:28:52 <cjd> http://www.ka9q.net/Uverse/static-ip.html
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186 2012-02-19 04:29:40 <cjd> the only good thing I have to say is anyone who is broken because they use that garbage will at least be used to it
187 2012-02-19 04:29:54 <theymos> I used to use U-Verse. Working around the RG was a real pain.
188 2012-02-19 04:30:42 <cjd> according to forrestv, those are what's breaking the checksums
189 2012-02-19 04:31:03 <cjd> well... I'm assuming it's those because it's at&t address block...
190 2012-02-19 04:32:04 <theymos> There will be major problems if those RGs break Bitcoin, since all U-Verse users (even business) must use the RGs and U-Verse is pretty popular.
191 2012-02-19 04:33:37 Nicksasa has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
192 2012-02-19 04:34:02 <cjd> IMO those things are more or less like the boxes at the border of china and iran.
193 2012-02-19 04:34:22 <cjd> (the only thing that makes sense it to keep them baffled and confused)
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198 2012-02-19 04:49:45 <theymos> Interesting fact: the alert messages sent at the start of connections have no checksum.
199 2012-02-19 04:50:04 <Diablo-D3> LOLHAX
200 2012-02-19 04:50:24 <Diablo-D3> or wait, maybe you need to have 51% of the hash power to hack alert messages
201 2012-02-19 04:50:31 * Diablo-D3 snickers
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204 2012-02-19 04:51:55 <graingert> alert messages?
205 2012-02-19 04:54:49 <theymos> The network messages that relay info from the development group. You should see a message in your client right now caused by an alert.
206 2012-02-19 05:02:19 <graingert> kewl
207 2012-02-19 05:02:23 <graingert> loading it up
208 2012-02-19 05:04:20 <graingert> fancy
209 2012-02-19 05:04:24 <graingert> how do I get it to leave?
210 2012-02-19 05:04:35 <graingert> I want my percent synced with the network
211 2012-02-19 05:04:46 <theymos> Wait 2 days.
212 2012-02-19 05:04:52 <graingert> WHATRT
213 2012-02-19 05:05:02 <graingert> WHAT*
214 2012-02-19 05:05:09 <graingert> well that sucks
215 2012-02-19 05:05:24 <graingert> alert message needs moving
216 2012-02-19 05:05:32 <graingert> or the ability to acknowledge
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218 2012-02-19 05:12:30 <cjd> are version messages checksummed but not validated?
219 2012-02-19 05:12:35 <cjd> (currently)
220 2012-02-19 05:12:49 <theymos> No, there's no checksum at all.
221 2012-02-19 05:12:58 <theymos> This changes on Feb 20, though.
222 2012-02-19 05:13:16 <cjd> ic
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224 2012-02-19 05:13:54 <cjd> so can't wander the network tcpdumping for nodes which break it
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241 2012-02-19 05:37:36 <gmaxwell> so, my push to the page isn't showing up. No big deal— but it will be when we need to update it. :)
242 2012-02-19 05:37:50 <gmaxwell> (it's been an hour and a half)
243 2012-02-19 05:39:53 <theymos> I noticed a small error in the alert: Bitcoin versions 0.3.11 and 0.3.12 can receive alerts, but they understand their version numbers to be 311 and 312 respectively, which is below the alert's MinVer of 10000. PMed Gavin about it.
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253 2012-02-19 06:12:04 <etotheipi_> is there a reason the Satoshi client would refuse a peer connection from localhost?  isn't it supposed to always trust localhost?
254 2012-02-19 06:12:31 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: it can fill up.
255 2012-02-19 06:12:38 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
256 2012-02-19 06:12:40 <gmaxwell> Also, if you're not listening—
257 2012-02-19 06:14:48 <etotheipi_> I'm trying to figure out why, under some unknown circumstances, Armory fails to complete the handshake
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259 2012-02-19 06:15:29 <gmaxwell> You can't get banned as localhost at least.
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263 2012-02-19 06:17:34 <etotheipi_> ugh
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266 2012-02-19 06:18:12 <etotheipi_> when I run satoshi and Armory both in testnet mode, it works
267 2012-02-19 06:18:18 <etotheipi_> but when run on main network... nothing
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270 2012-02-19 06:19:58 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: stop wondering about it and look at the bitcoin debug.log
271 2012-02-19 06:20:15 <gmaxwell> the software is pretty good about logging when something unusual happens.
272 2012-02-19 06:20:23 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, thanks!  I keep forgetting that exists
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279 2012-02-19 06:40:35 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, do you know if there is a timeout between when the Satoshi client sends a version message, and when it expects to receive a response?
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338 2012-02-19 09:19:03 <danieldaniel_> How do you make a bit coin fork?
339 2012-02-19 09:19:08 <danieldaniel_> Im just bored, and want to know how
340 2012-02-19 09:19:09 <danieldaniel_> lol
341 2012-02-19 09:19:56 <cjd> google: multicoin
342 2012-02-19 09:22:52 <danieldaniel_> Whats that?
343 2012-02-19 09:22:56 <danieldaniel_> multicoin.net won't load
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410 2012-02-19 11:21:01 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: laanwj opened pull request 867 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/867>
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435 2012-02-19 12:40:41 <zordilorp> hohhoho
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450 2012-02-19 13:33:15 <luke-jr> etotheipi_: localhost usually is ::1, but bitcoind only binds 127.0.0.1
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452 2012-02-19 13:42:38 <sipa> i hope to make it bind to ::1 soon :)
453 2012-02-19 13:43:10 <luke-jr> sipa: there's already a pullreq for that
454 2012-02-19 13:43:26 <luke-jr> it has known bugs, so it was removed from next-test
455 2012-02-19 13:43:39 <luke-jr> (specifically, -rpcallowip doesn't work properly with IPv4 addresses)
456 2012-02-19 13:43:46 <sipa> for rpc you mean?
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458 2012-02-19 13:44:12 <sipa> right, i meant for p2p
459 2012-02-19 13:45:46 <luke-jr> right
460 2012-02-19 13:46:20 <da2ce7> sipa: when redeming a p2sh transaction, dose the netwokr just pass arround 'unfiinshed' transactions and collect signtures and new imputs as it goes?
461 2012-02-19 13:47:07 <sipa> da2ce7: i think you misunderstand the scope of p2sh
462 2012-02-19 13:47:26 <sipa> you send to a script's hash
463 2012-02-19 13:47:45 <sipa> you rederm using that script + valid inputs to it
464 2012-02-19 13:48:24 <da2ce7> sipa: sure... but one bitcoin instance may not have all the imputs yet...
465 2012-02-19 13:48:28 <sipa> how to obtain those valid inputs is something that id yet to be sern
466 2012-02-19 13:48:39 <sipa> damn phone keyboard
467 2012-02-19 13:48:55 <sipa> da2ce7: there is a proposal, bip 10
468 2012-02-19 13:49:43 <da2ce7> so I publish an unfinished tx, then my mate's bitcoin pops up 'found tx with a script that has a p2sh that I know: shall I sign this tx (with proposed actions)' ?
469 2012-02-19 13:50:28 <sipa> rather hard, as the network will not relay such invalid transaction
470 2012-02-19 13:50:51 <da2ce7> cannot we change that?
471 2012-02-19 13:51:07 <sipa> we could add a message type, i suppose
472 2012-02-19 13:51:48 <sipa> but i'm not sure that maybe out of band negotiation isn't ylthe way to go
473 2012-02-19 13:52:18 <da2ce7> and tx 'gather' signtures as they go on... or are droped... if the tx has been waiting for ages to get mined... people can just add annother fee tx to seed things up...
474 2012-02-19 13:52:54 <da2ce7> I could even publish a tx with 0 fee, and the bitcoin client could say.... this tx has been waiting for 10h, do you want to add annother 0.001 btc as fee?
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477 2012-02-19 13:55:44 <da2ce7> and that solves the 'fee problem' I was thinking about before... publish tx with no fee, and slowly add fess over time... so that you spend the minimum on fees, and at a market rate... eg. your goal is 'confirm within 1h' you add a proportion at the start, half you intented fee at 30min, and the rest of the fee at 1h.
478 2012-02-19 13:56:09 <da2ce7> you may get lucky and get the tx confirmed in the next block for 0btc fee :)
479 2012-02-19 13:56:10 <da2ce7> or not.
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523 2012-02-19 15:36:46 <zordilorp> bri]
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537 2012-02-19 15:54:04 diki has joined
538 2012-02-19 15:54:05 <diki> Pinging bitcointalk.org [50.97.137.52] with 32 bytes of data:
539 2012-02-19 15:54:05 <diki> Reply from 50.97.137.52: Destination port unreachable.
540 2012-02-19 15:55:24 <mcorlett> diki: From bitcointalk.org (50.97.137.52) icmp_seq=1 Destination Port Unreachable
541 2012-02-19 15:56:03 <Graet> ;;isitdown bitcointalk.org
542 2012-02-19 15:56:04 <gribble> http://bitcointalk.org Is Up -> Check if your website is up or down?
543 2012-02-19 15:58:47 <xHire> how can I test localization? I have properly set up system locale, but bitcoin-qt still runs untranslated, i.e. in english (with wxbitcoin I didn't have such problem ;c)).
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568 2012-02-19 17:29:04 <wumpus> xHire: if you build from git you can use command line arguments, for example: -lang de_DE  
569 2012-02-19 17:29:26 <wumpus> this was only introduced yesterday, though
570 2012-02-19 17:34:30 <xHire> wumpus: -lang=de works. :c) thank you!
571 2012-02-19 17:35:32 <wumpus> though it's strange that it doesn't detect your system locale -- I'm not sure how qt does that, but seems to work for most people
572 2012-02-19 17:37:19 <sipa> wumpus: is #821 fixed?
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575 2012-02-19 17:41:13 <wumpus> sipa: depends on your definition of fixed :-)
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579 2012-02-19 17:46:50 <xHire> wumpus: however it doesn't work with my TS file.. I must be doing something wrong
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581 2012-02-19 17:48:25 <xHire> what I did: `lupdate -ts src/qt/locale/bitcoin_cs.ts -target-language cs -pro bitcoin-qt.pro` and then in Qt Linguist translated. build with `qmake && make`
582 2012-02-19 17:48:25 <wumpus> xHire: to have it included you need to add it to both bitcoin-qt.pro and the resource file bitcoin.qrc
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584 2012-02-19 17:48:59 <wumpus> the first will make sure it builds, the second includes it in the executable
585 2012-02-19 17:50:38 <xHire> works! thank you :c)
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591 2012-02-19 17:59:20 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sipa opened pull request 868 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/868>
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595 2012-02-19 18:04:22 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sipa reopened issue 642 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/642>
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600 2012-02-19 18:19:30 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sipa opened pull request 869 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/869>
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602 2012-02-19 18:24:32 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sipa opened pull request 870 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/870>
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607 2012-02-19 18:38:50 <gmaxwell> tcatm_: Is the bitcoin.org website push broken?  I updated feb20.html last night and its still not on the site.
608 2012-02-19 18:39:48 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sipa opened pull request 871 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/871>
609 2012-02-19 18:40:48 <gmaxwell> meh. I just wasted a bunch of time reading and thinking about "BTC-like cryptocurrency with arbitrary tradeable computation in proofs of work" only to eventually conclude that it's a useless proposal. It would have been nice if the author was actually upfront about its weaknesses rather than leaving me to waste an hour being excited about it before figuring it out for myself.
610 2012-02-19 18:41:21 <tcatm_> gmaxwell: Did you edit it using github's webinterface?
611 2012-02-19 18:41:45 <gmaxwell> No. I was not aware of github's webinterface.
612 2012-02-19 18:41:56 <tcatm_> Hrm strange.
613 2012-02-19 18:42:07 <gmaxwell> I cloned it via ssh, then pushed.
614 2012-02-19 18:42:23 <gmaxwell> I see the commit, but the bot didn't run.
615 2012-02-19 18:46:29 <sipa> can someone try to cause a reorg on testnet? :)
616 2012-02-19 18:51:45 Graet has joined
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618 2012-02-19 18:52:30 Guest82896 is now known as Graet
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624 2012-02-19 18:55:06 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sipa opened pull request 872 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/872>
625 2012-02-19 18:58:10 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
626 2012-02-19 18:58:35 <gmaxwell> sipa: can you also please report their identities?
627 2012-02-19 18:58:57 <gmaxwell> sipa: I can cause one for you in a few minutes.
628 2012-02-19 18:59:12 <gmaxwell> (need to start a current testnet node, don't have one at the moment)
629 2012-02-19 19:00:40 <sipa> gmaxwell: identities?
630 2012-02-19 19:01:02 <gmaxwell> sipa: hashes.
631 2012-02-19 19:01:44 <sipa> Hmm, that could cause excessive debug output; is this interesting enough?
632 2012-02-19 19:01:58 <gmaxwell> The prior best would be good enough.
633 2012-02-19 19:01:58 <sipa> Maybe report the last block that was both in the old and the new best chain?
634 2012-02-19 19:02:20 <gmaxwell> (from the prior best you could walk back to get all of them)
635 2012-02-19 19:02:58 <gmaxwell> hm. Well I guess you can always fuddle the prior best out from the old chain.
636 2012-02-19 19:03:01 <gmaxwell> er old logs
637 2012-02-19 19:03:50 <gmaxwell> I've previously used blockchain.info to investigate forks. But other than being able to find them, I think we basically have everything I need to do so built in now.
638 2012-02-19 19:11:57 <sipa> gmaxwell: ok, updated
639 2012-02-19 19:12:04 <sipa> my current testnet best is 000000006c9e4c230b79
640 2012-02-19 19:12:16 <sipa> and my node is running with the pullreq patch
641 2012-02-19 19:16:45 <gmaxwell> heh. yea... perhaps we should do something about testnet bootstrapping....
642 2012-02-19 19:17:39 <gmaxwell> I've been up a couple of minutes now and don't have a connection yet.
643 2012-02-19 19:17:49 theymos has joined
644 2012-02-19 19:18:33 <sipa> gmaxwell: -irc
645 2012-02-19 19:19:02 <gmaxwell> sure sure.
646 2012-02-19 19:19:35 <gmaxwell> I kinda wanted to see if it would make it up without it.. but I didn't realize I didn't have an old addr.dat either.
647 2012-02-19 19:20:24 marf_away has joined
648 2012-02-19 19:23:20 <sipa> is there any optimized cpu miner that supports difficulty<1 ?
649 2012-02-19 19:24:23 zeiris has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
650 2012-02-19 19:24:37 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
651 2012-02-19 19:27:04 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Clap on! , Clap off! Clap@#&$NO CARRIER)
652 2012-02-19 19:29:40 <DBordello> Is there a patch floating around that allows one to determien the transaction details?  Such as what addresses the funds were sent from (when receiving).
653 2012-02-19 19:30:06 <sipa> DBordello: why do you need that information?
654 2012-02-19 19:30:20 <DBordello> sipa, I wouldn't mind identifying green address transactions
655 2012-02-19 19:30:51 <gmaxwell> DBordello: I responded to you on the forum just now.
656 2012-02-19 19:30:59 <gmaxwell> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=64547.0
657 2012-02-19 19:31:10 <DBordello> gmaxwell, wow, that must have been just now
658 2012-02-19 19:31:13 <DBordello> i just looked :)
659 2012-02-19 19:32:50 <DBordello> gmaxwell, 1) Whoops, you quoted a stupid typo of mine
660 2012-02-19 19:32:55 <sipa> gmaxwell: nice answer
661 2012-02-19 19:33:02 <sipa> ;;bc,calcd 4000 0.062
662 2012-02-19 19:33:03 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 4000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 0.062, is 1 minute and 6 seconds
663 2012-02-19 19:33:37 Karmaon has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
664 2012-02-19 19:33:47 <DBordello> Is presenting the user with the source of the funds a bad thing?
665 2012-02-19 19:34:17 <theymos> Yeah, because then they might try to refund to that address, which is wrong.
666 2012-02-19 19:34:17 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i think the solution intersango is now using substantially solves all of those problems
667 2012-02-19 19:34:23 <gmaxwell> DBordello: kinda. Because of how address management works its not uncommon for _all_ of the involved addresses to be something the sender has never seen before.
668 2012-02-19 19:34:31 <sipa> DBordello: as such no, but a) it encourages bad behaviour (using from addresses to convey information) and b) bitcoin transaction do not technically have a from address
669 2012-02-19 19:34:34 <gmaxwell> oh and what theymos says too.
670 2012-02-19 19:34:55 <phantomcircuit> transactions are assigned a nonce and the user is shown the nonce (as a link)
671 2012-02-19 19:35:07 <phantomcircuit> anybody with the nonce can verify the transaction was sent by intersango
672 2012-02-19 19:35:10 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: and then anyone else can check the nonce?
673 2012-02-19 19:35:13 <sipa> and theymos's reason is probably the best one - people often ask "how to do refunds", and the real answer is: ask the customer
674 2012-02-19 19:35:32 <DBordello> That is true....
675 2012-02-19 19:35:39 <sipa> gmaxwell: i added 5 blocks myself now, how is a reorg coming along?
676 2012-02-19 19:35:59 <DBordello> alright, I see green addresses are not looked upon favorably here.  And the information I require to verify them also isn't.
677 2012-02-19 19:36:14 <DBordello> And you guys have thought it out more than I have.
678 2012-02-19 19:36:20 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: Yes, thats good. You could extend it a little further by using signmessage— so that someone who has seen the verification link can prove to another person that intersango lied.
679 2012-02-19 19:36:21 <theymos> I don't think green addresses are a bad idea.
680 2012-02-19 19:36:50 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, not really my concern :)
681 2012-02-19 19:37:15 <gmaxwell> sipa: sorry, had to wait for it to sync up, I didn't have the chain.
682 2012-02-19 19:37:25 <DBordello> green addresses seemed like a good solution.
683 2012-02-19 19:37:53 <sipa> theymos: they are an easy solution for the fast transaction problem now, but i believe there will be better solutions in the future
684 2012-02-19 19:39:02 <DBordello> So, do you guys recommend 1) Don't trust green addresses as a service, or 2) just don't ask the client for help
685 2012-02-19 19:39:23 <gmaxwell> DBordello: they really fit poorly within the overall system: They pretty much entirely break the only source of privacy bitcoin has. (the anonymity of addresses)
686 2012-02-19 19:39:27 <theymos> sipa: What better solution do you have in mind? Blind signing? Script/nLockTime magic?
687 2012-02-19 19:39:33 <phantomcircuit> DBordello, i wouldn't suggest asking the client for help
688 2012-02-19 19:40:21 <gmaxwell> theymos: er, "Script/nLockTime magic?"  do we have a disconnect on what green addresses do?
689 2012-02-19 19:40:33 <gmaxwell> theymos: green addresses are just a way to sign transactions with a well known key.
690 2012-02-19 19:40:49 <DBordello> gmaxwell, they are generally optional.  Also, they are going to be "from MtGox" or some other big service.  It is still pretty private
691 2012-02-19 19:40:58 sacarlson has joined
692 2012-02-19 19:41:00 <gmaxwell> Unfortunately they do it in a pretty inefficient way that also degrades privacy.
693 2012-02-19 19:41:05 <sipa> theymos: signmessage of transaction id, which is passed along in an out-of-band communication (which obviously requires such a system to exist, but i believe it will, in the long term)
694 2012-02-19 19:41:16 <DBordello> I like the inband nature of it
695 2012-02-19 19:41:36 <gmaxwell> DBordello: sure, in that very narrow use case it's not horrific, but it's basically something that only a couple of the very biggest services can use without degrading privacy horribly. And it's still bad for downstream users
696 2012-02-19 19:41:50 <sipa> the bitcoin network is the trivial choice for conveying information along bitcoin-using partners, but it's really not the best one
697 2012-02-19 19:42:07 <gmaxwell> We could also do inband without putting things in the blockchain. Though thats still bad for privacy though a little less so.
698 2012-02-19 19:42:13 <theymos> gmaxwell: You can do safe instant transfers using complex scripts.
699 2012-02-19 19:42:30 <sipa> it shouldn't be used for anything that is not necessary for the world to verify your transaction's validness
700 2012-02-19 19:43:06 <theymos> sipa: Yeah, that'd probably be better. (I was just interested in what you had in mind.)
701 2012-02-19 19:43:56 zeiris has joined
702 2012-02-19 19:43:57 <sipa> gmaxwell: you have specific code for causing reorgs laying around?
703 2012-02-19 19:44:06 <gmaxwell> sipa: yes.
704 2012-02-19 19:44:14 <gmaxwell> sort of.
705 2012-02-19 19:44:33 Cablesaurus has joined
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708 2012-02-19 19:44:56 <sipa> i should probably try to cause it myself for testing purposes, but at this point, asking you is easier ;)
709 2012-02-19 19:45:04 <gmaxwell> DBordello: what I mean for downstream users is this:   Say I donate to the communist party via bitcoins. The Man has compromised the party and wants to track down their donors. I didn't pay them via a mtgox green address... but someone who paid me did.. or someone who paid someone who paid me did. So The Man can instantly detect that and look for me starting only one or two hops away.
710 2012-02-19 19:45:28 <DBordello> true
711 2012-02-19 19:50:16 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
712 2012-02-19 19:50:42 <gmaxwell> sipa: what testnet height do you see?
713 2012-02-19 19:50:42 Karmaon has joined
714 2012-02-19 19:51:38 <sipa> gmaxwell: 46790 (git head)
715 2012-02-19 19:51:45 underscor has joined
716 2012-02-19 19:51:58 <gmaxwell> damnit.
717 2012-02-19 19:52:15 <gmaxwell> I started my fork back at 46722 because thats as far as I was getting.
718 2012-02-19 19:53:11 <sipa> gmaxwell: i'm at 80.200.12.7
719 2012-02-19 19:54:19 <gmaxwell> sorry, I should have asked first
720 2012-02-19 19:54:40 <sipa> no, you don't even have to do this in the first place :)
721 2012-02-19 19:54:57 echelon has left ()
722 2012-02-19 19:57:20 <sipa> gmaxwell: currently at 0000000019a6fcd60ef7  height=46794
723 2012-02-19 20:02:45 <gmaxwell> sipa: where are you now? 796 or so?
724 2012-02-19 20:03:21 <sipa> 46797
725 2012-02-19 20:03:36 <sipa> 000000001b07f33c785b  height=46797
726 2012-02-19 20:04:53 <gmaxwell> you should make a backup of your chain now.. then you'll be able to get reorgs much as you want by reconnecting.
727 2012-02-19 20:05:16 <gmaxwell> I'm up to 799 now, so well me when you're ready and I'll release my reorg back to 790
728 2012-02-19 20:05:48 <sipa> good idea, backupped
729 2012-02-19 20:05:53 <gmaxwell> okay.
730 2012-02-19 20:06:10 <sipa> REORGANIZE: Disconnected 11 blocks; 0000000236cea9d517ec..000000001b07f33c785b
731 2012-02-19 20:06:13 <sipa> REORGANIZE: Connected 10 blocks; 0000000236cea9d517ec..000000000d726a10901f
732 2012-02-19 20:08:55 datagutt has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
733 2012-02-19 20:09:17 <sipa> gmaxwell: that looks like expected?
734 2012-02-19 20:09:29 Guest61234 is now known as diki
735 2012-02-19 20:09:59 <gmaxwell> Yep
736 2012-02-19 20:10:44 GMP has joined
737 2012-02-19 20:11:02 <cjd> that reorganize stuff is one reason why I do not feel qualified to offer patches :|
738 2012-02-19 20:12:00 <cjd> I looked at the latest source, nice to see more comments and easier to follow code than 9 months ago.
739 2012-02-19 20:12:28 graingert has joined
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742 2012-02-19 20:23:03 <gmaxwell> so.. if we used public keys for payments instead of addresses: we could have a inband-broadcast but still private 'green address' system like this:
743 2012-02-19 20:23:06 <gmaxwell> Given a TXN(Me->You), I compute ECDH(Me_priv,You_pub)=Ek,
744 2012-02-19 20:23:08 <gmaxwell> Sign(green,TXID)=SigA, Enc(En,SigA)=E_Siga, Sign(Me,TXID||E_Siga)=SigB
745 2012-02-19 20:23:11 <gmaxwell> and broadcast {TXID,E_Siga,Sigb}.
746 2012-02-19 20:23:13 <gmaxwell> Nodes relay if TXID is a recent txn with sufficient fees which has
747 2012-02-19 20:23:16 <gmaxwell> had no other messages of this type and sigb is a valid signature
748 2012-02-19 20:23:18 <gmaxwell> from an address on that transaction.
749 2012-02-19 20:23:21 <gmaxwell> The RX side could compute the same shared secret for every txn they
750 2012-02-19 20:23:23 <gmaxwell> recieve and use it to decrypt any incoming messages.
751 2012-02-19 20:23:26 <gmaxwell> But we cant do this with our current addresses because we don't know
752 2012-02-19 20:23:28 <gmaxwell> the public key. :(
753 2012-02-19 20:24:46 <gmaxwell> We could make this possible by making a new address type that allows you to specify a public key to be used for secret messages just appended to the address.
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788 2012-02-19 22:17:56 diki has joined
789 2012-02-19 22:18:21 diki is now known as Guest86123
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791 2012-02-19 22:21:03 mcorlett is now known as redditcoin
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795 2012-02-19 22:38:10 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Quitte)
796 2012-02-19 22:48:44 joeosophy has joined
797 2012-02-19 22:52:05 <sipa> in main.cpp:ScanHash_CryptoPP:
798 2012-02-19 22:52:09 <sipa> if (((unsigned short*)phash)[14] == 0)
799 2012-02-19 22:52:16 <sipa> why 14 and not 15?
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805 2012-02-19 23:05:40 <sipa> BlueMatt: what do you think about #864 ?
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826 2012-02-19 23:27:54 <gmaxwell> T minus 40 minutes.
827 2012-02-19 23:28:04 mrsy has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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836 2012-02-19 23:51:44 <graingert> gmaxwell: ooh countdown to hashed versions
837 2012-02-19 23:53:31 <sipa> gmaxwell: no, to the scheduled transition to protocol version 209
838 2012-02-19 23:53:38 <sipa> eh, graingert
839 2012-02-19 23:54:09 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Quitte)
840 2012-02-19 23:55:13 mcorlett has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
841 2012-02-19 23:57:23 DBordello has quit (Quit: Leaving)
842 2012-02-19 23:57:49 <gmaxwell> T minus 10 minutes.
843 2012-02-19 23:58:32 <Raccoon> what happens on feb20?
844 2012-02-19 23:59:00 <theymos> Every Bitcoin mining rig will explode.
845 2012-02-19 23:59:17 <gmaxwell> Raccoon: didn't you see the notice?
846 2012-02-19 23:59:18 <nanotube> and bitcoins will shoot up to $1000
847 2012-02-19 23:59:18 <Raccoon> EEEP!
848 2012-02-19 23:59:29 <Raccoon> gmaxwell: i only just happened to start bitcoin.exe just now
849 2012-02-19 23:59:36 <Raccoon> and noticed the statusbar
850 2012-02-19 23:59:51 <nanotube> wel,l statusbar gives you a link