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 61 2012-02-24 02:43:45 <copumpkin> is it normal for the client to be "catching up" even when it's been open for a while?
 62 2012-02-24 02:43:53 <copumpkin> it says the last block received was 54 minutes ago
 63 2012-02-24 02:43:58 <copumpkin> but it's catching up
 64 2012-02-24 02:44:21 <copumpkin> I'm supposedly connected to 8 peers
 65 2012-02-24 02:44:51 <copumpkin> oh, I guess that's when the last block was made
 66 2012-02-24 02:45:16 <tcatm> Yep. The message is a bit misleading, though.
 67 2012-02-24 02:45:30 <copumpkin> yeah, I assumed I was somehow detached from the network
 68 2012-02-24 02:45:41 <copumpkin> and that somehow it knew there was a block on its way but hadn't seen it yet
 69 2012-02-24 02:48:04 <copumpkin> damn, finally got a block and it didn't include my transaction :P
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 73 2012-02-24 02:57:56 <Joric> guys
 74 2012-02-24 02:58:18 <Joric> maybe the tx fee could be based on current difficulty?
 75 2012-02-24 02:59:05 <Joric> rather than 'sub-cents' btc/usd rates and such
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 85 2012-02-24 03:24:50 <nanotube> Joric: that has been proposed (i proposed it in fact, iirc, some time ago :) ). it has been responded that difficulty may rise due to improvement in technology, rather than any associated increase in value.
 86 2012-02-24 03:25:07 <nanotube> (e.g., if everyone gets a bunch of fpgas, with lower variable costs...
 87 2012-02-24 03:25:09 <nanotube> )
 88 2012-02-24 03:25:28 <Joric> still better than now
 89 2012-02-24 03:26:49 <nanotube> well, in the shorter term, yes, i think so. but it's not a "permanent long-term solution".
 90 2012-02-24 03:27:19 <nanotube> (the discovery of which is left as an exercise to the reader ... :P )
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 94 2012-02-24 03:31:12 <Joric> well determining the 'spam' itself is an AI task, so either difficulty or bayes and shit )
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163 2012-02-24 06:42:49 <swulf--> a bit off topic, but wondering if anyone's interested: i'm trying to devise a strategy for proof of work that maintain that each solution takes roughly the same amount of time regardless of computing power (i.e., solution is easier for end users, harder for servers), and that the difficulty of your computation isn't necessarily related to the difficulty of mine... just that both of our problems were solved in the (expected) same am
164 2012-02-24 06:42:51 <swulf--> any ideas?
165 2012-02-24 06:44:53 ahihi2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
166 2012-02-24 06:48:17 <swulf--> better yet: is there any way (mathematically) that i can have a remote node *prove* how fast his mhashing capabilities are?
167 2012-02-24 06:53:06 <gmaxwell> swulf--: its trivial to prove access to a lower bound to any desired confidence.
168 2012-02-24 06:53:13 <gmaxwell> the other way, no there is no way to do that.
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177 2012-02-24 07:19:14 <Diablo-D3> has anyone seen slush lately?
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183 2012-02-24 07:38:29 <wumpus> swulf--: it's impossible to make that resistant against sybil attacks, ie virtualizing a server into lots of "end users"
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219 2012-02-24 08:24:49 <Graet> saqw him on about 36hours ago or so Diablo-D3
220 2012-02-24 08:25:12 <Diablo-D3> well apparently his pool is breaking on DM.
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252 2012-02-24 10:20:15 <genjix> ;;later tell jgarzik your email address is broken/down
253 2012-02-24 10:20:16 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
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265 2012-02-24 10:51:44 <libcoin> from the protocol specification:
266 2012-02-24 10:51:45 <libcoin> Before 20 February 2012, the version and verack messages do not have a checksum; the payload starts 4 bytes earlier. On and after 20 February 2012, all messages have checksums.
267 2012-02-24 10:51:55 <libcoin> Does it still apply ?
268 2012-02-24 10:52:29 <Diablo-D3> yes, that has passed.
269 2012-02-24 10:52:33 <Diablo-D3> all clients now require it
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271 2012-02-24 10:53:16 <libcoin> OK - explains why I got a lot of errors like : PROCESSMESSAGE MESSAGESTART NOT FOUND, got: 37
272 2012-02-24 10:53:35 <libcoin> but I cannot find the spot in the code that changes it...
273 2012-02-24 10:53:37 <Diablo-D3> yeah, I expect a lot of third party shit broke because they didnt read the spec
274 2012-02-24 10:53:46 <Diablo-D3> this has been in the works since 0.2.9
275 2012-02-24 10:54:31 <libcoin> Yup, and I recall that I found it somewhere in the code but I cannot recall where
276 2012-02-24 10:54:47 <Diablo-D3> sipa or gavin or gmaxwell should know
277 2012-02-24 10:54:58 <MagicalTux> [19:53:29] <libcoin> but I cannot find the spot in the code that changes it... <- it's dirty
278 2012-02-24 10:55:07 <MagicalTux> the spot in the code just changes the default version from 0 to 209
279 2012-02-24 10:55:23 <libcoin> ahh then it might be in CDataStream
280 2012-02-24 10:55:27 <MagicalTux> no
281 2012-02-24 10:55:42 <libcoin> but it should involve some date
282 2012-02-24 10:55:55 <MagicalTux> net.h
283 2012-02-24 10:56:03 <libcoin> I recall that it is the version of the vRecv that does the trick
284 2012-02-24 10:56:07 <MagicalTux>         // Version 0.2 obsoletes 20 Feb 2012\nif (GetTime() > 1329696000)
285 2012-02-24 10:56:07 <libcoin> ahh thanks
286 2012-02-24 10:56:19 <MagicalTux> just grep for 1329696000
287 2012-02-24 10:57:19 <libcoin> Yup - thanks! it was the internal version of the CDataStreams that does the magic - hacking at its best :-/
288 2012-02-24 10:57:45 <MagicalTux> yea
289 2012-02-24 10:58:05 <MagicalTux> anyway you can drop this piece of code now
290 2012-02-24 10:58:10 <MagicalTux> and just apply hash to everything
291 2012-02-24 10:58:25 <MagicalTux> including version and verack
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293 2012-02-24 10:59:48 <libcoin> I already did drop it - that was the reason :) - it took me quite some effort to figure our how the protocol was implemented - and I have a check for version and verack, was lazy about the date..
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296 2012-02-24 11:02:25 <sturles> MagicalTux: When Mt.Gox get an international bank transfer from private persons, does it include the address of the sender?
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300 2012-02-24 11:05:50 <MagicalTux> [20:02:19] <sturles> MagicalTux: When Mt.Gox get an international bank transfer from private persons, does it include the address of the sender? <- include? where ?
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302 2012-02-24 11:06:21 <Diablo-D3> on the secret government forms you're using to report terrorists with
303 2012-02-24 11:06:24 <Diablo-D3> duh
304 2012-02-24 11:06:26 <sturles> Among the information you get from your bank when receiving it.  I'm asking because banks are required to keep my address in sync with the central resident registry, so it should be valid as proof of residency.  A good one as well.  I don't get any utility bills on paper.  My other alternative is to send a tax receipt.
305 2012-02-24 11:07:00 <sturles> To get a verified account.
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307 2012-02-24 11:07:06 <MagicalTux> sturles: depending on the bank, we get various info
308 2012-02-24 11:07:09 <Diablo-D3> sturles: he'd have to know where you live first
309 2012-02-24 11:07:16 <MagicalTux> our hong kong bank do not keep the address sent by the sending bank, but our japanese bank does
310 2012-02-24 11:07:30 <MagicalTux> we often get unreliable crap, however, so that doesn't exactly count as a proof of address for us
311 2012-02-24 11:08:17 <libcoin> Just update MessageParser.cpp to:         case command:
312 2012-02-24 11:08:17 <libcoin>             msg.command(_counter++, input);
313 2012-02-24 11:08:17 <libcoin>             if(_counter < 12)
314 2012-02-24 11:08:17 <libcoin>                 return indeterminate;
315 2012-02-24 11:08:17 <libcoin>             else {
316 2012-02-24 11:08:18 <libcoin>                 // Version 0.2 obsoletes 20 Feb 2012
317 2012-02-24 11:08:18 <libcoin>                 if (GetTime() > 1329696000)
318 2012-02-24 11:08:19 <libcoin>                     _checksum = true;
319 2012-02-24 11:08:19 <libcoin>                 else
320 2012-02-24 11:08:20 <libcoin>                     _checksum = (msg.command() != "version" && msg.command() != "verack");
321 2012-02-24 11:08:20 <libcoin>                 _state = messagesize;
322 2012-02-24 11:08:21 <libcoin>                 _counter = 0;
323 2012-02-24 11:08:21 <libcoin>                 return indeterminate;
324 2012-02-24 11:08:22 <libcoin> Now it runs smoothly again - thanks for the help!
325 2012-02-24 11:08:26 <Diablo-D3> damnit libcoin
326 2012-02-24 11:08:35 <sturles> I have mostly sent to your japanese bank.
327 2012-02-24 11:08:36 NxTitle has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
328 2012-02-24 11:08:45 <MagicalTux> libcoin: just drop the if (GetTime() > ...)
329 2012-02-24 11:08:51 <MagicalTux> there's no chance it'll be < to that value anymore
330 2012-02-24 11:08:59 <Diablo-D3> MagicalTux: yes there is
331 2012-02-24 11:09:08 <sturles> You can also get the information directly from the central registry if you have a legal reson for it.
332 2012-02-24 11:09:22 <libcoin> Agree... I will keep it as a rimnder for myself for a couple of days :-D
333 2012-02-24 11:09:43 <sturles> Some information in English here: http://www.skatteetaten.no/en/International-pages/Employee/working/Norwegian-employer/77885/Remember-to-report-any-change-of-address/
334 2012-02-24 11:09:46 NxTitle has joined
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337 2012-02-24 11:10:15 <MagicalTux> sturles: don't they provide you with a receipt, or stuff ?
338 2012-02-24 11:10:24 <sturles> Not on paper, no.
339 2012-02-24 11:10:29 twmz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
340 2012-02-24 11:10:35 <sturles> You can look it up electronically.
341 2012-02-24 11:10:53 <sturles> I get a tax receipt on paper.  That's about everything.
342 2012-02-24 11:11:21 Detritus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
343 2012-02-24 11:11:34 <sturles> The tax receipt includes my officially registered address directly from the source.
344 2012-02-24 11:12:20 <sturles> I think Japan has a similar system?  We also have personal identification numbers.
345 2012-02-24 11:14:14 <sturles> I can download my utility bills as PDFs from my bank, but I don't expect them to be accepted since a PDF is trivial to change.
346 2012-02-24 11:29:33 <sturles> Nevermind.  Wrong channel anyway.  Sent a support request.
347 2012-02-24 11:34:57 dvide_ has quit ()
348 2012-02-24 11:38:11 <vegard> why is the wallet flushed whenever a block is received?
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378 2012-02-24 13:45:11 <TD> is there an issue with the network at the moment?
379 2012-02-24 13:45:22 <TD> for some reason none of the nodes my client is trying are accepting connections/still present
380 2012-02-24 13:47:04 <TD> huh
381 2012-02-24 13:47:05 <TD> there we go
382 2012-02-24 13:47:14 <TD> there must be a lot of stale addresses in my addr.dat
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407 2012-02-24 14:38:48 <finway> i guess 17 is too long?
408 2012-02-24 14:38:48 <finway> What's the max length of rpcpassword ?
409 2012-02-24 14:39:36 graingert has joined
410 2012-02-24 14:40:23 <gmaxwell> No. 17 is not too long.
411 2012-02-24 14:40:39 <gmaxwell> Some tools have a hard time if you include some special characters however.
412 2012-02-24 14:41:46 marf_away has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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414 2012-02-24 14:42:12 <finway> gmaxwell: oh, i see
415 2012-02-24 14:46:44 <Joric> gmaxwell, what if make fee dependent of the difficulty? seems pretty fair
416 2012-02-24 14:49:07 finway has quit (Quit: Page closed)
417 2012-02-24 14:49:19 <Joric> this way bitcoin could really be divisible to 8 decimal places
418 2012-02-24 14:51:17 <sipa> fee should depend (in an economic sense) on the exchange rate of bitcoins, on how valuable the transactions done using it are
419 2012-02-24 14:51:29 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: so how long you think grabbing the last two months of blocks should take on a core2 1.7 and ssd with -connect to a semi-local host?
420 2012-02-24 14:51:40 <jrmithdobbs> if i grab .6
421 2012-02-24 14:52:06 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: I have a patch for importing a blk0001.dat file into bitcoin
422 2012-02-24 14:52:10 <wumpus> sipa: I don't think I agree -- the fee is for storage costs, so is based on the size of the transaction in bytes, not in coins
423 2012-02-24 14:52:26 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: i'm specifically interested in how performance of large downloads has gotten since .4 ;p
424 2012-02-24 14:52:49 <sipa> wumpus: You don't pay for storage costs.
425 2012-02-24 14:53:01 <sturles> The fee depends on the miners now.  There is a default value, but it is entirely up to miners what transactions go into a block.  Is there any plans to change that?
426 2012-02-24 14:53:19 <sipa> wumpus: Miners are the judges for what to store, but they are not those who do most of the storage.
427 2012-02-24 14:53:22 <wumpus> sipa: but the storage and network traffic is what is the cost factor
428 2012-02-24 14:53:24 <helo> there's no decentralized way to determine the exchange rate... don't miners just need to be able to their fee requirements easily?
429 2012-02-24 14:53:28 <sturles> Some miners take inn all transactions there is space for in the block.  One miner only take transactions with a fee.
430 2012-02-24 14:53:33 <wumpus> sipa: not the number of coins sent
431 2012-02-24 14:53:45 <helo> "to set"
432 2012-02-24 14:54:00 <wumpus> sipa: it doesn't matter for a miner for processing whether 0.01 is being sent of 1000
433 2012-02-24 14:54:06 <wumpus> or*
434 2012-02-24 14:54:17 <sturles> Miners can choose to vary their demanded fee on exchange rate.  It's up to them.
435 2012-02-24 14:54:19 <sipa> wumpus: no, but it does change the incentive for the attacker
436 2012-02-24 14:54:25 mologie has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
437 2012-02-24 14:54:35 <sipa> wumpus: and defence against that attacker is what you pay for
438 2012-02-24 14:54:47 mologie has joined
439 2012-02-24 14:55:04 <wumpus> how? if you pay less fees for a small transaction than a big one, it's easier to flood with smaller transactions
440 2012-02-24 14:55:40 <wumpus> the attack is clogging the block chain right?
441 2012-02-24 14:56:04 <sipa> sure, prevention against DOS attacks is another reason why we have fees now
442 2012-02-24 14:56:06 <sturles> Later, when miners depend more on fees, the mining power will adjust dynamically to the possible fees.  If there is a lot of fees waiting, more hashpower will get phased in to solve the block.  No fees -> miners are automatically halting mining to conserve power.
443 2012-02-24 14:57:02 <sipa> wumpus: i'm more talking about a hypothetical future were mining income is mostly based on fees, and people pay for getting their transactions included
444 2012-02-24 14:58:06 <wumpus> okay
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447 2012-02-24 14:58:38 <sipa> if i trust a received payment to not be double-spent, i don't care whether it is in the block chain or not quickly
448 2012-02-24 14:58:50 userkhg has joined
449 2012-02-24 14:58:51 <sipa> -"or not"
450 2012-02-24 15:03:28 <Joric> any thoughts how big the blockchain would be to 2013? the tentency is pretty scary http://goo.gl/kAYPK
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458 2012-02-24 15:15:54 <forrestv> Joric, be more concerned about bandwidth requirements to maintain a node; the entire blockchain can be theoretically reduced to a single merkle hash (if you trust the source of it)
459 2012-02-24 15:17:57 <sipa> The hash of the block at the top of the chain in itself is a cryptographic proof of the entire history
460 2012-02-24 15:18:03 <sipa> That doesn't mean it's usable ;)
461 2012-02-24 15:18:06 <btc_novice> forrestv: but until that's implemented, we should still be concerned about block chain size.
462 2012-02-24 15:19:24 <forrestv> btc_novice, nobody has thought of a way to greatly reduce bitcoin's bandwidth without compromising its characteristics (at least that i've heard of)
463 2012-02-24 15:19:36 wood has joined
464 2012-02-24 15:19:37 <forrestv> block chain size at least has a theoretical solution :P
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474 2012-02-24 15:50:16 <LittleDuke> fyi, got namecoind to compile on FreeBSD 7.1 (32-bit) last night, working on 8.2 (64-bit) now...
475 2012-02-24 15:51:01 copumpkin has joined
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479 2012-02-24 16:04:21 <jgarzik> hum
480 2012-02-24 16:04:32 <gavinandresen> I was just thinking the same thing
481 2012-02-24 16:04:33 <jgarzik> wonder which email genjix is talking about
482 2012-02-24 16:04:53 <jgarzik> ---> <genjix> your email address is broken/down
483 2012-02-24 16:05:05 <jgarzik> that's a bit vague :)
484 2012-02-24 16:05:19 <gavinandresen> Oh, I was going "hum" over qtipcserver.cpp .....
485 2012-02-24 16:06:07 Zarutian has joined
486 2012-02-24 16:06:27 <gavinandresen> sipa:  do you know why ipcInit() does a little dance with message_queue::timed_receive ?
487 2012-02-24 16:07:09 <copumpkin> ;;seen roconnor
488 2012-02-24 16:07:09 <gribble> roconnor was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 week, 0 days, 0 hours, 25 minutes, and 46 seconds ago: <roconnor> Dear user n27pHgA6KioCvXUCdijzdFjeaa9kHA7kzi, Due to your violation of bitcoin TOS your asset has been frozen and your private key is being disclosed as 9afaa65b092e4c82ea752080bee6ce53398207dca480f64c82f32bdb7f85b7e5. Have a nice day, and thank you for using bitcoin.
489 2012-02-24 16:07:09 coingenuity has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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491 2012-02-24 16:09:38 <etotheipi_> hahah
492 2012-02-24 16:10:29 <sipa> gavinandresen: No idea at all.
493 2012-02-24 16:10:42 <etotheipi_> I don't see any transactions behind either of those addresses though...  I wonder how roconner got it....
494 2012-02-24 16:10:47 Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
495 2012-02-24 16:10:54 <sipa> gavinandresen: But the problem is that timed_receive?
496 2012-02-24 16:10:55 <gavinandresen> sipa: ok, thanks, I'll ask Matt
497 2012-02-24 16:11:00 <etotheipi_> (*either = trying both endiannesses of that private key)
498 2012-02-24 16:11:34 <sipa> gavinandresen: Do you know whather timed_receive itself is using 100% CPU, or whether it is immediately returning false?
499 2012-02-24 16:11:35 <gavinandresen> sipa:  yes, looks like a boost bug on Mac.  I'm thinking of replacing it with a plain-old receive
500 2012-02-24 16:12:07 <sipa> Which of both?
501 2012-02-24 16:13:00 userkhg has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
502 2012-02-24 16:13:17 <sipa> http://mrajcok.wordpress.com/2010/10/06/boost-message_queue-timed_receive-eating-100-cpu/
503 2012-02-24 16:13:29 <etotheipi_> sipa, I meant, I imported that private key by roconnor, in both endiannesses... neither one has any transactions
504 2012-02-24 16:13:47 <riush> etotheipi_: it's a testnet address
505 2012-02-24 16:14:11 <riush> http://test.bitcoin.interesthings.de/address/n27pHgA6KioCvXUCdijzdFjeaa9kHA7kzi
506 2012-02-24 16:14:45 <etotheipi_> riush, oh right... I didn't notice that part
507 2012-02-24 16:15:04 <sipa> etotheipi_: I'm kinda glad roconnor didn't do his attack on mainnet :)
508 2012-02-24 16:15:14 <etotheipi_> what was the attack?
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517 2012-02-24 16:32:17 <jgarzik> ok, figured out the problem
518 2012-02-24 16:32:22 <jgarzik> DNS service needed renewing
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521 2012-02-24 16:33:25 <copumpkin> what's the current status on the duplicate transaction id issue?
522 2012-02-24 16:33:47 <copumpkin> roconnor seems to think it's pretty serious
523 2012-02-24 16:34:53 danbri has joined
524 2012-02-24 16:35:04 <copumpkin> and should warnings be sent out to people doing API-like things about it?
525 2012-02-24 16:35:59 <gavinandresen> copumpkin: patch is being tested.  What do you mean by 'people doing API-like things?'
526 2012-02-24 16:36:43 danbri_ has joined
527 2012-02-24 16:37:13 <copumpkin> just warning people using the RPC interface for whatever that they should do their best to avoid relying on the uniqueness of transaction ids
528 2012-02-24 16:37:22 <copumpkin> not sure how much people rely on that
529 2012-02-24 16:37:24 danbri has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
530 2012-02-24 16:37:38 <copumpkin> (or the fact that transactions can be overwritten, I should say)
531 2012-02-24 16:39:16 <gavinandresen> The plan is to make duplicate transactions illegal, first with a patch that fixes the immediate problem and then with changes to make them impossible to generate.
532 2012-02-24 16:40:39 <gavinandresen> Asking people to handle different transactions with the same transaction id just isn't workable, in my humble opinion
533 2012-02-24 16:41:49 <copumpkin> oh, I don't mean that
534 2012-02-24 16:42:39 <copumpkin> I just mean warning them that there is currently an issue and that they should do their best to avoid relying on anything that could be broken
535 2012-02-24 16:45:45 <etotheipi_> so what is the plan for making them "illegal"?
536 2012-02-24 16:46:14 <etotheipi_> *how will it be enforced
537 2012-02-24 16:46:28 <libcoin> Regarding the timed_receive 100% CPU usage on Mac - it also applies to receive. The "hack" is to do a try_receive every second or so, however, it will make only little sense as the way you have implemented protocol handling only applies to windows (and perhaps linux?)  anyway. On Mac you need to listen to an event.
538 2012-02-24 16:46:32 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: https://github.com/gavinandresen/bitcoin-git/tree/discourageblocks
539 2012-02-24 16:46:50 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: ... and sipa has a patch that fixes the immediate problem
540 2012-02-24 16:47:24 <luke-jr> IMO something should probably be merged for 0.6
541 2012-02-24 16:47:28 <libcoin> And btw - it is not a boost bug - if you look at the code it is just a fall back solution for some platforms
542 2012-02-24 16:47:49 <luke-jr> it's too easy to exploit
543 2012-02-24 16:48:03 <sipa> luke-jr: if you have cooperation from a large pool, yes
544 2012-02-24 16:48:04 <gavinandresen> sipa's patch will be merged as soon as he tells me it is ready for merging.
545 2012-02-24 16:48:13 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen, I'm not fluent enough in bitcoinC++ to figure out what "discourage" means... is that simply "don't accept and don't forward?"
546 2012-02-24 16:48:18 <sipa> gavinandresen: that implies we decide on a date
547 2012-02-24 16:48:32 <sipa> etotheipi_: accept but don't forward
548 2012-02-24 16:48:42 <luke-jr> sipa: you just need to generate 2 blocks over an unlimited time period; doesn't need a pool
549 2012-02-24 16:48:46 <sipa> and don't mine on top of it
550 2012-02-24 16:48:59 <etotheipi_> sipa, that doesn't make sense... it sounds like it wouldn't be accepted
551 2012-02-24 16:49:03 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: no, to exploit it you need to force a re-org, which is not easy
552 2012-02-24 16:49:10 <etotheipi_> if it's "accepted", it seems you would automatically be mining off of it
553 2012-02-24 16:49:21 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: it's not hard eithert
554 2012-02-24 16:49:32 <gavinandresen> ... if you have a big pool with lots of hashing power
555 2012-02-24 16:49:42 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: you just need to connect to a large number of peers, and as soon as you see someone else announce a block, you announce yours
556 2012-02-24 16:50:12 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: "as soon as you see" is probably too late to force a re-org
557 2012-02-24 16:50:14 <luke-jr> if you're careful to announce the other person's block to the big pools, you can almost guarantee yours is orphaned
558 2012-02-24 16:50:36 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: if you connect to almost all the nodes, you will see it before it gets flooded much
559 2012-02-24 16:51:08 <luke-jr> I suspect the attacker could get 90% nodes with a reorg
560 2012-02-24 16:51:18 <gavinandresen> well, in any case, we need to fix it "with all due haste"
561 2012-02-24 16:51:45 <sipa> also, the attack can only be used on transactions that depend entirely on a duplicated coinbases, which you can see 120 blocks in advance
562 2012-02-24 16:51:55 <sipa> and there is no financial gain to the attacker
563 2012-02-24 16:51:59 <gavinandresen> ... but I don't want people to think there is any reason to panic.  This is not like the overflow bug
564 2012-02-24 16:52:11 <luke-jr> sipa: I'm just talking without a txn
565 2012-02-24 16:52:27 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: no reason to panic; it's fixed with a redownload
566 2012-02-24 16:53:07 <luke-jr> unless someone does the more complicated txn-based attack anyhow
567 2012-02-24 16:53:27 <sipa> "talking without a txn" ?
568 2012-02-24 16:53:43 <luke-jr> sipa: ie, just 2 blocks
569 2012-02-24 16:53:55 <sipa> ?
570 2012-02-24 16:53:58 <libcoin> do you have a description of the attack somewhere - I can't figure out the (cheap) generation of tx with same hash ?
571 2012-02-24 16:54:16 <sipa> http://r6.ca/blog/20120206T005236Z.html
572 2012-02-24 16:54:23 <etotheipi_> offtopic:  if I shutoff networking entirely, then turn it on (such as a smartphone going to sleep), how quickly do you think I can acquire connections to 3-5 peers
573 2012-02-24 16:54:34 <luke-jr> sipa: mine 1 block, <any length of time>, mine 2nd block and ensure it's orphaned (as explained above), then spend the coinbase
574 2012-02-24 16:54:46 <jrmithdobbs> etotheipi_: seconds assuming latency/packet loss isn't too bad
575 2012-02-24 16:54:50 <libcoin> sipa: thanks
576 2012-02-24 16:55:04 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
577 2012-02-24 16:55:10 <etotheipi_> jrmithdobbs, perfect... that's what I was hoping for, but I don't have any experience yet, to know for sure
578 2012-02-24 16:55:27 <sipa> luke-jr: yup, block chain split
579 2012-02-24 16:55:39 <jrmithdobbs> etotheipi_: worse case you'll cycle through some dead/stale peers in addr.dat before finding some still listening
580 2012-02-24 16:56:08 <etotheipi_> jrmithdobbs, what about if I don't have any existing peers?  perhaps I want to make sure I get a different crowd every time?
581 2012-02-24 16:56:32 <jrmithdobbs> etotheipi_: dns seeds should give you known good peers so not an issue
582 2012-02-24 16:56:33 <luke-jr> correction to my statement above: I meant 90% of *online* nodes
583 2012-02-24 16:56:54 <etotheipi_> jrmithdobbs, is it still the same order-of-magnitude? (in terms of time to collect peers)
584 2012-02-24 16:57:05 <sipa> luke-jr: but that is not fixed with an update to the client, as those would risk to be orphaned even more easily
585 2012-02-24 16:57:24 <jrmithdobbs> etotheipi_: ya, you'll still find good peers in seconds
586 2012-02-24 16:57:52 <jrmithdobbs> etotheipi_: sometimes faster since if you're using cached peers you'll cycle through more dead ones where the dns seeds filter those out fairly effectively
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592 2012-02-24 17:11:21 <jrmithdobbs> curl -L -o - http://bitcoin.sipa.be/seeds.txt 2>/dev/null </dev/null | egrep -n "$(echo -n '^('; ifconfig -a | egrep -o '(addr:|inet )[0-9]+[.][0-9]+[.][0-9]+[.][0-9]+' | cut -d: -f2 | cut -d\  -f2 | sed 's,[.],[.],g' | tr '\n' '|'; echo -n '# )')"
593 2012-02-24 17:11:31 dikidera has joined
594 2012-02-24 17:12:08 <jrmithdobbs> easy way to check for a node in sipa's seeds/uptime list so long as the public address is actually assigned on the box
595 2012-02-24 17:12:23 swulf-- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
596 2012-02-24 17:12:27 swulf--2 has joined
597 2012-02-24 17:12:28 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: xHire opened pull request 891 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/891>
598 2012-02-24 17:12:46 diki has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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614 2012-02-24 17:50:18 <jine> jrmithdobbs: What does that seed/uptime list show actually? Cause it's not correct imo.
615 2012-02-24 17:50:32 <jine> This is our bitcoind (at pool.bitlc.net):
616 2012-02-24 17:50:33 <jine> 46.253.195.51:833311.26%30.93%29.07%6.86%1.71%60000 "/bitcoin-qt:0.5.99/"
617 2012-02-24 17:50:52 <jine> 46.253.195.51:8333    11.26%     30.93%     29.07%     6.86%      1.71%      60000 "/bitcoin-qt:0.5.99/"
618 2012-02-24 17:51:08 <jine> 11-30% uptime in the past days? :P
619 2012-02-24 17:51:10 <jrmithdobbs> jine: the "uptime" is based on connectability, not running
620 2012-02-24 17:51:34 <jrmithdobbs> jine: so if sipa's monitor could successfully connect and get a version it's up, if it couldn't connect, it's not
621 2012-02-24 17:51:48 <jrmithdobbs> jine: and default connection limit is 128
622 2012-02-24 17:52:09 <jine> Ah, i see. It has to be the connection limit in that case.
623 2012-02-24 17:52:44 <jrmithdobbs> it also doesn't actually have a full 30 days of stats yet sipa was saying
624 2012-02-24 17:56:33 danbri_ is now known as danbri
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646 2012-02-24 18:47:25 [Tycho] has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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648 2012-02-24 18:57:29 TD has joined
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650 2012-02-24 19:02:07 slush has joined
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652 2012-02-24 19:02:54 <copumpkin> badluck: not cool
653 2012-02-24 19:03:20 jaypetermm_ has joined
654 2012-02-24 19:08:06 <copumpkin> badluck: you have anything better to do?
655 2012-02-24 19:09:45 jaypetermm_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
656 2012-02-24 19:12:38 slush has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
657 2012-02-24 19:20:34 <riush> http://blockchain.info/pools now that looks scary :)
658 2012-02-24 19:20:53 hexTech has quit (Quit: -)
659 2012-02-24 19:21:41 <luke-jr> riush: wtf?
660 2012-02-24 19:22:00 <luke-jr> I think it is wrong
661 2012-02-24 19:22:05 <riush> seems to be a bug in the chart, yes
662 2012-02-24 19:22:19 npouilla1d has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
663 2012-02-24 19:22:21 <riush> the block list looks ok
664 2012-02-24 19:22:37 Z0rZ0rZ0r has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
665 2012-02-24 19:22:47 mndrix has joined
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669 2012-02-24 19:22:48 mndrix has joined
670 2012-02-24 19:22:51 <forrestv> Unknown Blocks. Relayed By 0.0.0.0 - 97
671 2012-02-24 19:24:20 Z0rZ0rZ0r has joined
672 2012-02-24 19:26:47 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
673 2012-02-24 19:27:32 <luke-jr> O.o
674 2012-02-24 19:37:31 Cablesaurus has joined
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676 2012-02-24 19:37:31 Cablesaurus has joined
677 2012-02-24 19:38:20 BlueMatt has joined
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680 2012-02-24 19:45:47 <LittleDuke> fyi namecoind successfully ported to FreeBSD 8.2 (64-bit)
681 2012-02-24 19:46:52 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: the way osx deals with uris is such that we wont have to use ipc to deal with uris in osx, so the best thing (IMO) is to just skip all the ipc/uri stuff on osx
682 2012-02-24 19:47:14 <luke-jr> O.o
683 2012-02-24 19:47:20 <luke-jr> how do you do that without IPC?
684 2012-02-24 19:47:38 <BlueMatt> osx sends url open commands to running processes first before starting new ones
685 2012-02-24 19:47:51 <BlueMatt> (and never calls the url in command-line args, it sends it in its own special library)
686 2012-02-24 19:48:00 <luke-jr> … isn't that IPC? o.O
687 2012-02-24 19:48:06 <BlueMatt> no
688 2012-02-24 19:48:15 <BlueMatt> well sort of
689 2012-02-24 19:48:22 <BlueMatt> but not ipc we have to code, osx deals with it for us
690 2012-02-24 19:48:30 <luke-jr> i c
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725 2012-02-24 21:19:34 Cablesaurus has joined
726 2012-02-24 21:25:42 Herodes has joined
727 2012-02-24 21:27:32 <Herodes> What would be the best way to fetch mtGox prices frequently ? I see there's something called API 0, API 1 and the Streaming API. If I wanted to check the USD/BTC price every 20 seconds, what would be the best option ?
728 2012-02-24 21:28:04 <BlueMatt> ask on #mtgox?
729 2012-02-24 21:28:26 <Herodes> isn't it here the devs are e ?
730 2012-02-24 21:28:29 <Herodes> :.)
731 2012-02-24 21:28:39 <BlueMatt> devs of bitcoin, not mtgox...
732 2012-02-24 21:28:47 <Herodes> ok
733 2012-02-24 21:28:59 <phantomcircuit> lold
734 2012-02-24 21:29:06 Nicksasa has joined
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736 2012-02-24 21:29:06 Nicksasa has joined
737 2012-02-24 21:31:55 <Herodes> phantomcircuit, I sincerely hope I meet you in person some day, then we'll see if you lol just as much to my face. :)
738 2012-02-24 21:32:02 Herodes has left ()
739 2012-02-24 21:32:08 libcoin has joined
740 2012-02-24 21:32:15 <BlueMatt> ...wow
741 2012-02-24 21:32:39 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: i think you're getting internet tough guyed, watch out
742 2012-02-24 21:33:00 <dikidera> just encountered a youtube crash
743 2012-02-24 21:33:13 <gmaxwell> Whats with the extremely unpleasent people in the bitcoin channels lately?
744 2012-02-24 21:33:17 <dikidera> havent had that one in a long time, and I got their error encrypted key or whatever
745 2012-02-24 21:33:23 <BlueMatt> dikidera: did they dispatch the trained monkeys?
746 2012-02-24 21:33:26 <dikidera> yup
747 2012-02-24 21:33:37 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: welcome to the internet?
748 2012-02-24 21:33:43 <dikidera> what enryption mechanism do they use?
749 2012-02-24 21:33:49 <dikidera> it looks a bit like double pgp
750 2012-02-24 21:34:03 <Zarutian> gmaxwell: hmm? been lurking a  lot so I havent paied much in attention.
751 2012-02-24 21:34:57 <Joric> does github support dynamic sites? sourcefourge provides full-blown php hosting
752 2012-02-24 21:35:51 <dikidera> wow...second 500 internal server error
753 2012-02-24 21:36:04 <dikidera> someone is going to get fired...or hired
754 2012-02-24 21:36:17 <Joric> looks like no it doesnt :[ bummer
755 2012-02-24 21:39:39 <dikidera> yup, yt is broken now
756 2012-02-24 21:39:53 <dikidera> the site loads ok, but when trying to open a video, 500 server error
757 2012-02-24 21:39:58 <dikidera> ...or 502
758 2012-02-24 21:40:08 graingert has joined
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760 2012-02-24 21:40:49 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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764 2012-02-24 21:47:20 dump_ has joined
765 2012-02-24 21:47:26 <dump_> yo
766 2012-02-24 21:47:42 <BlueMatt> ...hi
767 2012-02-24 21:48:01 <dump_> Anything going on?
768 2012-02-24 21:48:13 <BlueMatt> no
769 2012-02-24 21:49:08 erle- has quit (Quit: erle-)
770 2012-02-24 21:49:15 <dump_> meh
771 2012-02-24 21:49:35 BCBot has joined
772 2012-02-24 21:50:24 <dump_> Where all the drunk bitches?
773 2012-02-24 21:50:38 <helo> they passed out hours ago :(
774 2012-02-24 21:51:12 ThomasV has joined
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784 2012-02-24 22:09:10 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, ahah oh wow
785 2012-02-24 22:09:36 <phantomcircuit> he's from norway
786 2012-02-24 22:09:48 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: huh?
787 2012-02-24 22:09:54 <phantomcircuit> internet tough guy
788 2012-02-24 22:10:04 <phantomcircuit> hard to take a tough guy norweign seriously
789 2012-02-24 22:10:13 <jrmithdobbs> that's like a tough guy ukranian
790 2012-02-24 22:10:20 <jrmithdobbs> what they gonna do? bleed on you?
791 2012-02-24 22:12:58 <Zarutian> what is it about internet tough guys? What do most of think they could do?
792 2012-02-24 22:13:36 <BlueMatt> they just have really small realpeen, so they have to pretend they have big epeen
793 2012-02-24 22:14:15 <coingenuity> my reelpeen is tiny :( like a tic-tac
794 2012-02-24 22:14:23 <BlueMatt> ...
795 2012-02-24 22:14:23 <coingenuity> that is why i threaten j00 on irc.
796 2012-02-24 22:14:30 <coingenuity> ill kick ur azz BlueMatt:D
797 2012-02-24 22:14:39 <coingenuity> and you too phantom!
798 2012-02-24 22:14:41 <coingenuity> :P
799 2012-02-24 22:14:46 <BlueMatt> I will pwn ur a$$
800 2012-02-24 22:15:03 <coingenuity> nah i am 8 feet tall and 900 pounds of muscle
801 2012-02-24 22:15:12 <BlueMatt> Im sure
802 2012-02-24 22:15:19 <coingenuity> i also have fusts made of sledgehammers
803 2012-02-24 22:15:24 <coingenuity> fists*
804 2012-02-24 22:15:30 <coingenuity> and lazer-eyes
805 2012-02-24 22:15:37 <BlueMatt> (my realpeen is 9 foot long and 500 pounds of muscle...)
806 2012-02-24 22:15:41 <coingenuity> XFD
807 2012-02-24 22:15:43 <Zarutian> BlueMatt: yeah, is it that similar to the guys who soup up honda civic hummers with kits, lights and kello kitty stickers?
808 2012-02-24 22:15:48 <coingenuity> hahahasha
809 2012-02-24 22:15:53 <coingenuity> BlueMatt++
810 2012-02-24 22:15:54 <BlueMatt> Zarutian: yea, something like that
811 2012-02-24 22:16:42 <phantomcircuit> lol so im reading dmesg trying to identify the source of timing info
812 2012-02-24 22:16:51 <phantomcircuit> and i realize i actually understand most of this now
813 2012-02-24 22:16:52 <phantomcircuit> lol
814 2012-02-24 22:17:40 luke-jr has joined
815 2012-02-24 22:18:04 <egecko> hrm... this is taking a long time to catch up to 300 blocks
816 2012-02-24 22:18:44 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i have 2 processes one calls gettimeofday() and sends the result to the other one which calls gettimeofday itself and prints the difference
817 2012-02-24 22:18:50 <phantomcircuit> messages are coming from the future
818 2012-02-24 22:18:52 <phantomcircuit> what the fuck
819 2012-02-24 22:19:25 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: does it call gettimeofday() before or after read()?
820 2012-02-24 22:19:31 <jrmithdobbs> (receiving end)
821 2012-02-24 22:19:35 <phantomcircuit> before
822 2012-02-24 22:19:37 <phantomcircuit> no
823 2012-02-24 22:19:48 <phantomcircuit> it receives the published time
824 2012-02-24 22:19:53 <phantomcircuit> calls gettimeofday
825 2012-02-24 22:19:55 <jrmithdobbs> if it's before i think you answered your own question
826 2012-02-24 22:19:57 <phantomcircuit> calculates the difference
827 2012-02-24 22:20:00 <phantomcircuit> prints the result
828 2012-02-24 22:20:10 <phantomcircuit> read your question wrong
829 2012-02-24 22:20:19 <jrmithdobbs> well that's interesting then
830 2012-02-24 22:21:41 JRWR has joined
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832 2012-02-24 22:22:45 * Zarutian thought that it was forbidden to use thiotimoline based conductors in computers now days.
833 2012-02-24 22:27:12 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
834 2012-02-24 22:27:27 zeiris has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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837 2012-02-24 22:34:51 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: dooglus opened pull request 892 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/892>
838 2012-02-24 22:36:33 olp has joined
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841 2012-02-24 22:39:37 zeiris has joined
842 2012-02-24 22:42:33 <DrHaribo> Hm, Satoshi seems to have a sick fetish for mixing up endianness.
843 2012-02-24 22:42:59 <BlueMatt> or just doesnt care about rare architectures...
844 2012-02-24 22:43:04 <BlueMatt> (or semirare)
845 2012-02-24 22:48:11 agricocb has joined
846 2012-02-24 22:48:13 <dikidera> the first sounds reasonable
847 2012-02-24 22:49:02 graingert has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
848 2012-02-24 22:50:13 splatster has joined
849 2012-02-24 22:50:25 <phantomcircuit> lol
850 2012-02-24 22:50:32 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, it's just a fucking floating point bug
851 2012-02-24 22:50:37 <phantomcircuit> time.time() in python is a float
852 2012-02-24 22:50:44 <jrmithdobbs> wtf, why?
853 2012-02-24 22:50:53 <jrmithdobbs> there's no reason for that to be a float
854 2012-02-24 22:50:54 <BlueMatt> wait, what???
855 2012-02-24 22:51:10 <BlueMatt> thats like sending floats for balances in financial software
856 2012-02-24 22:51:14 <BlueMatt> ...oh, wait...
857 2012-02-24 22:51:16 <phantomcircuit> :)
858 2012-02-24 22:52:20 darsk1ez has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
859 2012-02-24 22:54:23 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: nicely played, sir
860 2012-02-24 22:54:35 <etotheipi_> I use long(time.time()) all the time!
861 2012-02-24 22:54:54 <etotheipi_> the float thing has thrown me off a bit... but supposendly it has microsecond precision
862 2012-02-24 22:55:05 <etotheipi_> where as long(time.time()) gives you only integer seconds
863 2012-02-24 22:55:30 <jrmithdobbs> still shouldn't be a float
864 2012-02-24 22:55:52 <etotheipi_> jrmithdobbs, then what should it be, for people who need more resolution than 1s?
865 2012-02-24 22:56:13 <jrmithdobbs> etotheipi_: two ints in a struct is hard now?
866 2012-02-24 22:56:54 <etotheipi_> seems unnecessarily complex when you can just repr the exact values as a single double with human-understandable meaning
867 2012-02-24 22:58:04 <etotheipi_> (not that either form is particularly complex)
868 2012-02-24 23:01:52 <jrmithdobbs> etotheipi_: it seems unnecessarily complex right up to the moment you need to manipulate everything < or > 1s
869 2012-02-24 23:02:02 <jrmithdobbs> which is a pretty damned common use case
870 2012-02-24 23:03:03 eoss has joined
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873 2012-02-24 23:04:51 <phantomcircuit> lol
874 2012-02-24 23:04:56 <phantomcircuit> so tcp connection
875 2012-02-24 23:05:22 aga has joined
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878 2012-02-24 23:06:46 <phantomcircuit> s.send(str(datetime.datetime.now()))
879 2012-02-24 23:12:19 <phantomcircuit> lol it takes like 200 usec to parse the date string
880 2012-02-24 23:14:21 <sipa> lolwut?
881 2012-02-24 23:15:47 aga_ has joined
882 2012-02-24 23:15:51 <phantomcircuit> sipa, lolol yeah
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