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 47 2012-02-25 02:28:27 * Diablo-D3 frowns
 48 2012-02-25 02:29:56 <gruez> any devs here?
 49 2012-02-25 02:30:08 <gruez> I still have a problem with bitcoin-qt
 50 2012-02-25 02:30:21 <gruez> it crashes upon rpc connection
 51 2012-02-25 02:31:08 <gruez> http://pastie.org/private/3wvhcxgkthwpgqmnb7ttg
 52 2012-02-25 02:37:04 <luke-jr> gdb works on Windows? O.o
 53 2012-02-25 02:37:31 <gruez> luke-jr: sort-of
 54 2012-02-25 02:37:52 <gruez> if i start bitcoin-qt using gdb, it crashes upon startup
 55 2012-02-25 02:38:05 <gruez> if i attach to it after it has started
 56 2012-02-25 02:38:18 <gruez> it works, but it doesn't break when it encounters an error
 57 2012-02-25 02:39:57 <BlueMatt> arg, too many random unreliably reproduceable in a debugger issues on win32...
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 61 2012-02-25 02:48:32 <BlueMatt> gruez: what did you use to build that?
 62 2012-02-25 02:48:39 <BlueMatt> is it the one I built?
 63 2012-02-25 02:51:38 <gruez> BlueMatt: yes
 64 2012-02-25 02:51:56 <gruez> SHA-1: E69181DAE234140C0EC29ACCC520BD51BDFC987E
 65 2012-02-25 02:54:54 <BlueMatt> hmm...
 66 2012-02-25 02:55:09 <BlueMatt> do you get a similar error with release versions?
 67 2012-02-25 02:55:15 <BlueMatt> or maybe the current version from jenkins?
 68 2012-02-25 02:55:28 <BlueMatt> http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/ws/
 69 2012-02-25 02:57:56 <gruez> BlueMatt: same problem with 0.5
 70 2012-02-25 02:57:59 <gruez> and 0.6 beta
 71 2012-02-25 02:58:28 <gruez> also
 72 2012-02-25 02:58:43 <gruez> is there a reason why symbols won't load in IDA?
 73 2012-02-25 02:58:59 <gruez> it's 322 MB, but all the functions are unnamed
 74 2012-02-25 02:59:15 <BlueMatt> yes, gcc produces different symbol formats from vc
 75 2012-02-25 03:00:01 <BlueMatt> dont know about function names
 76 2012-02-25 03:01:51 <gruez> so in GDB, how do i get it to break on exception?
 77 2012-02-25 03:02:01 <BlueMatt> it should by default...
 78 2012-02-25 03:02:04 <gruez> right now, when it crashes
 79 2012-02-25 03:02:11 <gruez> it shows the windows dialog box
 80 2012-02-25 03:02:16 <luke-jr> my guess, it's not an exception
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 82 2012-02-25 03:02:28 <gruez> log from earlier
 83 2012-02-25 03:02:28 <gruez> <gruez> http://pastie.org/private/3wvhcxgkthwpgqmnb7ttg
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 85 2012-02-25 03:03:31 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: dooglus opened pull request 893 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/893>
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 89 2012-02-25 03:17:51 <phantomcircuit> gruez, windows c runtime exceptions aren't exceptions
 90 2012-02-25 03:18:07 <phantomcircuit> well they are but they get caught by the c runtime to display that pretty error box
 91 2012-02-25 03:23:57 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: dooglus opened pull request 894 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/894>
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109 2012-02-25 04:25:42 <XMPPwocky> oh
110 2012-02-25 04:27:56 <XMPPwocky> send a node an addr packet filled with as many 127.0.0.1:8333 pairs as you can
111 2012-02-25 04:28:12 weather has joined
112 2012-02-25 04:28:43 <XMPPwocky> then wait for network weather to do its worj
113 2012-02-25 04:29:02 <XMPPwocky> or, just keep sending them
114 2012-02-25 04:29:13 <XMPPwocky> and watch setAddrKnown grow to new heights!
115 2012-02-25 04:30:08 <XMPPwocky> boom. node dead or really slow
116 2012-02-25 04:30:21 <XMPPwocky> hello, pool dos
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120 2012-02-25 04:49:10 <gmaxwell> XMPPwocky: are you just pulling out random shit or have you looked?
121 2012-02-25 04:50:11 <gmaxwell> my recollection of that code is (1) it's indexed by address so sending the same address won't matter, maybe 127/8 (2) it ignores all past the first 1000 from a peer  but thats just my memory and expirence trumps that.
122 2012-02-25 04:50:31 <gmaxwell> There _are_ ways to dos related to addr rumoring, which is one reason why Sipa's addrman exists.
123 2012-02-25 04:50:57 <XMPPwocky> no
124 2012-02-25 04:51:16 <XMPPwocky> first: just randkm addresses, then
125 2012-02-25 04:51:50 <gmaxwell> Okay. Please test https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/787
126 2012-02-25 04:51:53 <XMPPwocky> second: read main.cpp:2185
127 2012-02-25 04:53:21 <XMPPwocky> it is added to a set immediately after a few sanity checks
128 2012-02-25 04:53:37 <XMPPwocky> set, so yeah, need random addys /or random ports/
129 2012-02-25 04:53:46 <gmaxwell> yes. like limiting the number of addresses you get from a peer.
130 2012-02-25 04:53:53 <XMPPwocky> gmaxwell: np
131 2012-02-25 04:54:03 <gmaxwell> I'm not saying its not an issue— it is, thus that pull request. But it's not news.
132 2012-02-25 04:54:12 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs and I were whining about that a year ago.
133 2012-02-25 04:54:27 <gmaxwell> sipa only got aroudn to doing the non-trivial work to improve it lately.
134 2012-02-25 04:54:29 <XMPPwocky> alright, k
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136 2012-02-25 04:56:42 <gmaxwell> XMPPwocky: please do give the addrman stuff the same kind of critical thinking though!
137 2012-02-25 04:57:34 <XMPPwocky> don't think that miht solve it
138 2012-02-25 04:57:53 <XMPPwocky> it's pfrom->AddAddressKnown
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141 2012-02-25 04:58:31 <XMPPwocky> from my cursory look that just deals with addr.dat
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151 2012-02-25 05:08:07 <devrandom> XMPPwocky: if you like XMPP, you might like https://guardianproject.info/apps/gibber/
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153 2012-02-25 05:12:20 <luke-jr> why would he like XMPP?
154 2012-02-25 05:12:45 <gmaxwell> because having to link a 10mb xml library in order to send an IM is _FANTASTIC_
155 2012-02-25 05:12:53 <XMPPwocky> the name's a subtle pun
156 2012-02-25 05:13:33 <gmaxwell> hah I got that before but had forgotten it.
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164 2012-02-25 05:19:04 <wizkid057> been meaning to buy the valve complete pack
165 2012-02-25 05:19:10 <wizkid057> er, wrong channel :P
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170 2012-02-25 05:57:16 <freewil> what effects does settxfee have
171 2012-02-25 06:01:13 <gmaxwell> freewil: it sets a fee (per kb of txn size) which is always added to transactions.
172 2012-02-25 06:01:28 <freewil> ah
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174 2012-02-25 06:01:59 <freewil> gmaxwell, how would you estimate the kb size (and therefore the fee) before sending coins?
175 2012-02-25 06:02:18 <freewil> it is zero by default?
176 2012-02-25 06:03:09 <gmaxwell> It's zero by default. Estimating the KB sizes isn't trivial, since you need to know all the payments available for spending in your wallet— though the software attempts to minimize the size.
177 2012-02-25 06:04:37 <freewil> ok so if it's zero by default i wouldnt have to worry about any potential exploits by small transactions generating large fees?
178 2012-02-25 06:04:47 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: vaguely. it doesn't do a good job of minimizing it.
179 2012-02-25 06:04:54 <freewil> do you know if there are any plans to make fee estimate easier in the future
180 2012-02-25 06:05:01 <luke-jr> freewil: bitcoind will automatically send a fee if it thinks you'll need it
181 2012-02-25 06:05:10 <freewil> luke-jr, via the api?
182 2012-02-25 06:05:17 <luke-jr> freewil: that's how you access bitcoind..
183 2012-02-25 06:05:33 <luke-jr> if you don't want it to do that, you need to merge one of my branches
184 2012-02-25 06:05:40 <luke-jr> that gives you more control over it
185 2012-02-25 06:05:41 <gmaxwell> The automatic, required fees can not in any case be larger than 0.05 BTC. (normally they are only 0.0005 BTC in the few cases where they are required at all)
186 2012-02-25 06:05:55 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I don't see that in code…
187 2012-02-25 06:06:17 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: Then you shouldn't be telling people to run forks where you've changed the logic. :)
188 2012-02-25 06:06:31 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: it's a constraint that arises because of the size check.
189 2012-02-25 06:06:53 <luke-jr> so.. entirely unrelated to the fee logic? :p
190 2012-02-25 06:07:06 <gmaxwell> No, it's in the same code that applies the fees in the coin selection.
191 2012-02-25 06:07:18 <gmaxwell> Basically it won't create a txn which is over 100k.
192 2012-02-25 06:07:37 JRWR has joined
193 2012-02-25 06:07:53 <gmaxwell> (it's not obvious — I agree, that whole code isn't obvious, which is why I'm mostly scared to publish patches against it!)
194 2012-02-25 06:08:12 <freewil> i think my solution will be to just charge at least 0.05BTC per withdraw
195 2012-02-25 06:08:25 <gmaxwell> freewil: thats a little silly.
196 2012-02-25 06:08:49 <freewil> im not hearing a better solution
197 2012-02-25 06:09:02 <gmaxwell> Charge 0.01 instead— you'll find it to be very profitable.
198 2012-02-25 06:09:13 <gmaxwell> and you won't be accused of being a ripoff.
199 2012-02-25 06:10:12 <freewil> is that based on a guestimated probability of fees being generated?
200 2012-02-25 06:10:42 <gmaxwell> 0.01 is already something like >200x the expected fees you'll be be having if you don't keep an empty wallet.
201 2012-02-25 06:11:43 <freewil> so does less transactions in the wallet actually increase the probability of having more fees since there is less inputs to select from?
202 2012-02-25 06:12:26 <gmaxwell> It's not so much a "guestimated probability": Getting a transaction up to a fee of 0.01 would take something like 300 hundreds of inputs. — the software won't do that unless it has no other option.
203 2012-02-25 06:12:57 <gmaxwell> freewil: yes, generally. More is helpful if they're reasonable sized—  having a bunch of very tiny inputs doesn't help.
204 2012-02-25 06:13:17 <gmaxwell> er s/300 hundreds/300/
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206 2012-02-25 06:15:28 <freewil> alright thanks gmaxwell
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208 2012-02-25 06:18:49 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: 0.01 BTC will be enough for accusations, from what I've seen
209 2012-02-25 06:19:26 <gmaxwell> Hm. everyone seems to leave doublec alone about his exchange.
210 2012-02-25 06:20:59 <phantomcircuit> freewil, i think we've paid on the order of 0.11 USD in bitcoin fees operating intersango
211 2012-02-25 06:21:09 <k9quaint> gmaxwell: which exchange does he run?
212 2012-02-25 06:21:12 <phantomcircuit> which is probably orders of magnitude more than most people
213 2012-02-25 06:21:23 <phantomcircuit> so
214 2012-02-25 06:21:25 <phantomcircuit> yeah
215 2012-02-25 06:21:30 <gmaxwell> k9quaint: bitparking
216 2012-02-25 06:21:53 <phantomcircuit> it's all altcoin
217 2012-02-25 06:21:55 <phantomcircuit> who cares
218 2012-02-25 06:21:56 <phantomcircuit> :)
219 2012-02-25 06:22:37 <freewil> phantomcircuit, do you use any sort of techniques to prevent many small deposit/withdraw potential exploits
220 2012-02-25 06:22:47 <phantomcircuit> yes
221 2012-02-25 06:23:53 <freewil> care to name any?
222 2012-02-25 06:25:10 <phantomcircuit> no :)
223 2012-02-25 06:25:28 <freewil> meh ok
224 2012-02-25 06:25:48 <phantomcircuit> you're weakpoint is going to be a sybil attack
225 2012-02-25 06:25:52 <phantomcircuit> so watch out for that
226 2012-02-25 06:26:11 <phantomcircuit> other than that it's pretty easy
227 2012-02-25 06:26:58 * freewil reads bitcoin wiki
228 2012-02-25 06:27:53 <freewil> is that just where you have a potential attacker flood your client with clients under their control, creating a walled off network?
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231 2012-02-25 06:32:25 <phantomcircuit> freewil, read the wikipedia entry
232 2012-02-25 06:32:32 <phantomcircuit> it's not an attack specific to bitcoin
233 2012-02-25 06:33:13 <phantomcircuit> im off to bed
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235 2012-02-25 06:36:14 <freewil> yeah its an interesting issue
236 2012-02-25 06:36:17 <freewil> all things bitcoin are
237 2012-02-25 06:39:50 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: people were ranting about blockchain.info's ewallet
238 2012-02-25 06:40:06 <luke-jr> for its 0.01 BTC fees
239 2012-02-25 07:03:15 <doublec> gmaxwell: leave me along about what?
240 2012-02-25 07:03:24 <doublec> s/along/alone
241 2012-02-25 07:04:04 <doublec> ah right, fees
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256 2012-02-25 08:12:35 <ThomasV> 'unknown' are going to succeed in their 51% attack
257 2012-02-25 08:13:44 <freewil> background info?
258 2012-02-25 08:14:09 <ThomasV> http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/
259 2012-02-25 08:15:17 <freewil> those bastards
260 2012-02-25 08:15:30 <freewil> we must stop this unknown
261 2012-02-25 08:15:34 word_ has joined
262 2012-02-25 08:15:38 <Graet> lol
263 2012-02-25 08:15:52 <Graet> blockchain.info is a bit messed up
264 2012-02-25 08:15:57 <ThomasV> I think it's a covert name for anonymous
265 2012-02-25 08:15:59 <Graet> more info here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=66194.0 :)
266 2012-02-25 08:16:00 <Karmaon> LOL, YOUR MONEY IS PROTECTED BY UNKNOWN
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271 2012-02-25 08:17:13 <freewil> even worse is that unknown is teaming up with other known i heard
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273 2012-02-25 08:17:41 <wumpus> don't fear the unknown!
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286 2012-02-25 09:03:34 <ThomasV> what is the longest time interval ever between two blocks?
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376 2012-02-25 13:39:36 <makomk> Oh bugger.
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378 2012-02-25 13:42:04 <makomk> I just realised how I could in theory quite easily create a very effective partition of the Bitcoin network. Whoops.
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385 2012-02-25 13:44:34 <badluck> makomk: how?
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