1 2012-02-29 00:00:05 <BlueMatt> heh, like he has a chance at getting elected anyway...
   2 2012-02-29 00:00:27 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: he's getting a surprising number of delegates ...
   3 2012-02-29 00:00:31 <jrmithdobbs> it's scarey.
   4 2012-02-29 00:00:42 Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
   5 2012-02-29 00:00:42 <BlueMatt> though I have to admit, its kinda a shame that there is no real everyday use for the word santorum for straight people, why do the gays get to have all the fun slipping santorum subtly into everyday conversation?
   6 2012-02-29 00:00:58 <jrmithdobbs> you just need more gay friends
   7 2012-02-29 00:01:02 <BlueMatt> its not like I have any legitimate reasons to say "there was a ton of santorum last night when I fucked my boyfriend"
   8 2012-02-29 00:01:02 <jrmithdobbs> obviously
   9 2012-02-29 00:01:23 <BlueMatt> he may get the nomination, but none of the rep contenders have a remote chance against obama...
  10 2012-02-29 00:02:18 <jrmithdobbs> considering his record they should
  11 2012-02-29 00:02:24 <jrmithdobbs> but first they'd need to run a non-joke candidate
  12 2012-02-29 00:02:27 <jrmithdobbs> which they refused to this cycle
  13 2012-02-29 00:02:27 <BlueMatt> should != do
  14 2012-02-29 00:02:38 <BlueMatt> they generally refuse to...
  15 2012-02-29 00:02:51 <jrmithdobbs> you have to admit, this was a particularly rotten crop
  16 2012-02-29 00:02:57 <BlueMatt> thats true
  17 2012-02-29 00:03:33 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  18 2012-02-29 00:03:33 <luke-jr> Alan Keyes maybe
  19 2012-02-29 00:03:51 <jrmithdobbs> weee, this code works on openbsd now! hoorah http://pastebin.com/Jp1SeU4G
  20 2012-02-29 00:04:04 <BlueMatt> and that code is...?
  21 2012-02-29 00:04:13 copumpkin has joined
  22 2012-02-29 00:04:32 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: key storage stuff i'm playing with
  23 2012-02-29 00:04:45 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: its kinda sad that the only decent republican candidates are so far behind they are hardly reported on in the media...
  24 2012-02-29 00:04:54 <FaktioNN> Any Ron Paul supporters out there?
  25 2012-02-29 00:05:06 <BlueMatt> (I refuse to use the words "mainstream media" together, its just too overused as of late)
  26 2012-02-29 00:05:07 <jrmithdobbs> need to fix my yubikey code to handle hw timeouts and retry, but ya, it actually builds and can query the usb devs on linux/freebsd/openbsd/osx now ;p
  27 2012-02-29 00:05:10 <JFK911> ron paul will put bitcoins on the gold standard
  28 2012-02-29 00:05:20 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I'm not sure there are any?
  29 2012-02-29 00:05:24 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  30 2012-02-29 00:05:42 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: also, the only decent Democrat candidate also gets no media time
  31 2012-02-29 00:05:56 chrisb__ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  32 2012-02-29 00:06:31 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: no, but there were some fairly socially-liberal candidates (ie liberal on things like gay marriage, abortion, etc) that had a remote chance
  33 2012-02-29 00:06:32 <FaktioNN> I think in terms of a "bitcoin friendly" government....Paul would probably be the safest choice.
  34 2012-02-29 00:06:36 <BlueMatt> (but ofc they got killed early)
  35 2012-02-29 00:06:49 <sipa> #bitcoin-politics?
  36 2012-02-29 00:06:51 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: liberal is a *bad* thing
  37 2012-02-29 00:07:12 sacarlson has joined
  38 2012-02-29 00:07:20 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: liberal for a republican just means slightly less conservative, not liberal...
  39 2012-02-29 00:07:24 <BlueMatt> sipa: ok, good point
  40 2012-02-29 00:07:31 kakobrekla has left ()
  41 2012-02-29 00:07:34 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: Republicans are liberals
  42 2012-02-29 00:07:43 <BlueMatt> wait, wtf why is #bitcoin-politics invite only?
  43 2012-02-29 00:07:51 <luke-jr> because vrag sucks
  44 2012-02-29 00:07:57 <JFK911> because democracy is gang rape
  45 2012-02-29 00:08:00 <BlueMatt> ...wtf...
  46 2012-02-29 00:08:06 <JFK911> and people who believe in things like the bible start telling others what to do
  47 2012-02-29 00:08:09 <FaktioNN> That sort of defeats the purpose.
  48 2012-02-29 00:08:16 <JFK911> so it should be an exclusive club
  49 2012-02-29 00:08:19 s\some\guy\123\n is now known as [\\\\\\\\]
  50 2012-02-29 00:08:46 theorbtwo has joined
  51 2012-02-29 00:08:46 <BlueMatt> monarchy ftw!!!
  52 2012-02-29 00:08:53 <BlueMatt> s/monarchy/dictatorship/
  53 2012-02-29 00:09:01 * sipa lives in a constitutional monarchy
  54 2012-02-29 00:09:08 <JFK911> as long as the dictator isn't evil
  55 2012-02-29 00:09:13 <sipa> (read: king doesn't have anything to say)
  56 2012-02-29 00:09:13 <luke-jr> sipa: there's actually one of those for real somewhere? :P
  57 2012-02-29 00:09:21 <luke-jr> that's no monarchy -.-
  58 2012-02-29 00:09:25 <FaktioNN> England
  59 2012-02-29 00:09:30 <BlueMatt> FaktioNN: no
  60 2012-02-29 00:09:46 <sipa> luke-jr: no, it's a constitutional monarchy :p
  61 2012-02-29 00:09:58 <BlueMatt> netherlands iirc
  62 2012-02-29 00:10:01 Dyaheon has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  63 2012-02-29 00:10:12 <JFK911> yeah they loved their new princess
  64 2012-02-29 00:10:12 <luke-jr> sipa: it's not a monarchy at all :p
  65 2012-02-29 00:10:16 <FaktioNN> BlueMatt, Wiki confirms. "non-devolved state within a constitutional monarchy"
  66 2012-02-29 00:10:19 <sipa> belgium here, but the netherlands is one as well
  67 2012-02-29 00:10:25 <BlueMatt> oh, sorry
  68 2012-02-29 00:10:31 <BlueMatt> sipa: not that I know anything about your govt, but isnt it effectively more of a democracy?
  69 2012-02-29 00:10:56 <sipa> BlueMatt: yes
  70 2012-02-29 00:11:05 <sipa> we only have 6 governments
  71 2012-02-29 00:11:33 * BlueMatt loves belgium's govt
  72 2012-02-29 00:12:05 <BlueMatt> its such a wonderful country, they had no govt for like what, a year, and the country's social services ran better than ever?
  73 2012-02-29 00:12:12 <BlueMatt> (from what little I know of the issue)
  74 2012-02-29 00:12:50 Dyaheon has joined
  75 2012-02-29 00:12:51 <sipa> BlueMatt: sure, but much longer without a government would have been problematic; people are now already doing strikes because they'll have to keep on working longer
  76 2012-02-29 00:13:13 <sipa> a federal one, a flemish one, a brussel-region's one, a walloon-area one, a fresh-language one, and a german-language one
  77 2012-02-29 00:14:17 <BlueMatt> sipa: still, the fact that your government was so deadlocked it stopped working for a year is great (I honestly do wish the us govt would do that from time to time)
  78 2012-02-29 00:15:18 <FaktioNN> Yeah, I tend to also think if it shut down for a while it would be a good thing. Will save tons of money too.
  79 2012-02-29 00:15:35 <sipa> BlueMatt: what would happen, do you think, if the US federal government would stop functioning and is only allowed to handle "current issues" and emergencies, not allowed to enforce new policies (which is basically what our "no government" meant)
  80 2012-02-29 00:16:14 <BlueMatt> sipa: Im not saying actually shut down, Im saying stop going crazy every once in a while
  81 2012-02-29 00:16:27 <sipa> My guess is you wouldn't notice
  82 2012-02-29 00:16:41 * BlueMatt is strongly of the opinion (at least in the us) that an even split govt is the way to go
  83 2012-02-29 00:16:53 <FaktioNN> Split govt how?
  84 2012-02-29 00:17:04 <BlueMatt> 50% democrat 50% republican, let them spend all their time arguing and not go crazy all the time
  85 2012-02-29 00:17:15 <BlueMatt> (like both the republicans and democrats do when they have too much power)
  86 2012-02-29 00:17:21 <JFK911> that is fail
  87 2012-02-29 00:17:27 <JFK911> two interests divvied up in any fashion is fail
  88 2012-02-29 00:17:51 <sipa> A two-party system is such a strange thing to me.
  89 2012-02-29 00:17:58 <JFK911> there should be at least four
  90 2012-02-29 00:18:01 <BlueMatt> sipa: agreed 1000%
  91 2012-02-29 00:18:12 <BlueMatt> but if we only have 2, 50/50 split is the way to go
  92 2012-02-29 00:18:14 <FaktioNN> George W was kinda against them.
  93 2012-02-29 00:18:20 <FaktioNN> But of course...they happened.
  94 2012-02-29 00:18:24 <sipa> FaktioNN: here preferred to only have one?
  95 2012-02-29 00:18:26 <sipa> *he
  96 2012-02-29 00:18:40 <BlueMatt> FaktioNN: s/kinda/very/
  97 2012-02-29 00:18:46 Cablesaurus has joined
  98 2012-02-29 00:18:46 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
  99 2012-02-29 00:18:46 Cablesaurus has joined
 100 2012-02-29 00:18:55 <luke-jr> nonsense
 101 2012-02-29 00:19:01 <luke-jr> there should be a single party
 102 2012-02-29 00:19:07 <luke-jr> if people disagree, split the country up
 103 2012-02-29 00:19:11 <luke-jr> and move where you want
 104 2012-02-29 00:19:15 <sipa> haha :D
 105 2012-02-29 00:19:20 <FaktioNN> Ah okay.
 106 2012-02-29 00:19:23 <luke-jr> not like there's any shortage of landmass
 107 2012-02-29 00:19:30 <FaktioNN> How about we return to the Northern US and the Confed. States of America?
 108 2012-02-29 00:20:28 <BlueMatt> damn santorum is nuts: jon stewart caught him saying that Kennedy's speech on how the us' freedom of religion is important almost made santorum throw up
 109 2012-02-29 00:20:34 <BlueMatt> seriously, WTF???????
 110 2012-02-29 00:20:55 <BlueMatt> how can someone who is explicitly against freedom of religion running for president
 111 2012-02-29 00:20:56 <sipa> "WTF???????" is rarely serious
 112 2012-02-29 00:21:09 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: why not?
 113 2012-02-29 00:21:16 lyspooner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111220165912])
 114 2012-02-29 00:21:39 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: because it goes against what the country was founded on and what the country, as a collective, has believed in for as long as it has existed?
 115 2012-02-29 00:21:46 <BlueMatt> sipa: sadly, santorum was...
 116 2012-02-29 00:21:52 <FaktioNN> I think we are much better off if we stuck with the constitution. It is a shame that it is kind of put on the backburner these days...
 117 2012-02-29 00:22:09 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: founded on, perhaps, but not what there has been any consensus on
 118 2012-02-29 00:22:30 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: furthermore, it is overstepping the jurisdiction of government
 119 2012-02-29 00:22:57 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: wait, what? freedom of religion and separation of church and state are oversteping the jurisdiction of the govt???????
 120 2012-02-29 00:23:00 <RedEmerald> freedom of religion is overstepping the jurisdiction of the govt? what?
 121 2012-02-29 00:23:01 <BlueMatt> what the hell are you smoking
 122 2012-02-29 00:23:05 <BlueMatt> (because I kinda want some)
 123 2012-02-29 00:23:22 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: yes, the State is subject to the Church and bound to recognize the true religion
 124 2012-02-29 00:23:34 <BlueMatt> ok, Im done with this
 125 2012-02-29 00:24:57 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: all Im gonna say is that is the most unamerican statement Ive ever seen (even if it is your belief that govt should be tied to religion)
 126 2012-02-29 00:25:16 <graingert> luke-jr: stick to the whirlpool
 127 2012-02-29 00:25:17 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: fine
 128 2012-02-29 00:25:34 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 129 2012-02-29 00:25:44 <graingert> if god wants to make changes, I'm sure he will
 130 2012-02-29 00:25:45 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I'm not going to pretend America's foundations were anything but evil, just because I live here
 131 2012-02-29 00:25:53 JRWR has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 132 2012-02-29 00:25:58 <graingert> till then separation of Church and state
 133 2012-02-29 00:26:11 <FaktioNN> I think if the government was run properly, this issue wouldn't have come up. The whole birth control issue between church and gov forcing healthcare requirements wouldn't have happened if they let the private sector be.
 134 2012-02-29 00:26:33 <graingert> let the private sector do what they want
 135 2012-02-29 00:26:36 <graingert> great
 136 2012-02-29 00:26:46 <BlueMatt> see: china
 137 2012-02-29 00:26:59 <luke-jr> FaktioNN: birth control should be completely illegal
 138 2012-02-29 00:27:04 <FaktioNN> With some minimal regulations, a free private sector can be very successful.
 139 2012-02-29 00:27:40 <graingert> luke-jr: and so should masturbation and anal?
 140 2012-02-29 00:27:48 <luke-jr> graingert: ofc
 141 2012-02-29 00:27:49 <RedEmerald> isn't it your god's job to punish people for using birth control, not the governments?
 142 2012-02-29 00:27:56 <graingert> luke-jr: oral?
 143 2012-02-29 00:28:10 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ear?
 144 2012-02-29 00:28:16 <FaktioNN> The problem in the US's past with big business was what I like to call crony capitalism.
 145 2012-02-29 00:28:20 <graingert> the rhythm method
 146 2012-02-29 00:28:21 <luke-jr> RedEmerald: it's the government's job to assist the Church and family in bringing people closer to God
 147 2012-02-29 00:28:28 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: eye-sex?
 148 2012-02-29 00:28:33 <graingert> that's what nasa is for, luke-jr
 149 2012-02-29 00:28:35 <BlueMatt> (for those who have no eyes)
 150 2012-02-29 00:28:36 <sipa> graingert: obviously any sexual intercourse without the intent of procreation is blasphemy
 151 2012-02-29 00:28:42 <graingert> stick you all in a rocket
 152 2012-02-29 00:28:48 <graingert> and send you to heaven
 153 2012-02-29 00:28:59 <luke-jr> graingert: I'd be OK with moving to the moon.
 154 2012-02-29 00:29:01 p0s has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 155 2012-02-29 00:29:02 <graingert> me too
 156 2012-02-29 00:29:09 <graingert> (with you moving to the moon)
 157 2012-02-29 00:29:17 att has joined
 158 2012-02-29 00:29:25 <graingert> just watch out you don't get punished like the Babylonians
 159 2012-02-29 00:30:05 <FaktioNN> luke-jr: Sounds good on paper, but the job of morality should belong to the people. The people have a right to choose who to worship, and how to act as long as it doesn't harm others in the process. Religion is a private thing (and always should be) - moral issues like that are private matters between people/church/God.
 160 2012-02-29 00:30:26 <luke-jr> FaktioNN: no, they don't.
 161 2012-02-29 00:30:38 <luke-jr> morality is decided by God alone.
 162 2012-02-29 00:30:49 <luke-jr> God has a right to be worshipped by His creation.
 163 2012-02-29 00:30:52 <graingert> luke-jr: if god wants to intervene he can be my guest
 164 2012-02-29 00:30:57 <graingert> but he doesn't bother
 165 2012-02-29 00:31:08 <FaktioNN> Great. No government has to enforce the act of worship.
 166 2012-02-29 00:31:19 <phrontist> luke-jr: are you familiar with the history of Rome?
 167 2012-02-29 00:31:34 <graingert> luke-jr: take solace in the fact we all burn
 168 2012-02-29 00:31:37 <luke-jr> FaktioNN: true
 169 2012-02-29 00:31:41 <graingert> luke-jr: just let us be in the real world
 170 2012-02-29 00:31:52 <sipa> can you please move this to #bitcoin-religion ?
 171 2012-02-29 00:31:55 <sipa> or something
 172 2012-02-29 00:32:03 <phrontist> sipa: isn't that redundant? :-)
 173 2012-02-29 00:32:06 <luke-jr> only if sipa joins
 174 2012-02-29 00:32:07 <luke-jr> :p
 175 2012-02-29 00:32:13 <sipa> luke-jr: ok, i will
 176 2012-02-29 00:32:16 <luke-jr> lol
 177 2012-02-29 00:32:33 <sipa> (nothing prevents me from ignoring * there, though)
 178 2012-02-29 00:32:50 <luke-jr> more on topic, anyone read over that gmp BIP draft?
 179 2012-02-29 00:33:09 <graingert> luke-jr: not the time.
 180 2012-02-29 00:34:20 <sipa> luke-jr: how is it different from the current implementation?
 181 2012-02-29 00:35:01 <luke-jr> sipa: it's more flexible, so pools can supply work with it
 182 2012-02-29 00:35:22 <luke-jr> able to compete with p2pool without the p2p
 183 2012-02-29 00:40:55 <BlueMatt> heh, thats great, you get niel degrass tyson on the daily show and he has to point out that the earthspinning animation in the intro is spinning the wrong way...
 184 2012-02-29 00:41:34 <BlueMatt> who wants to bet it will be spinning the other way tomorrow?
 185 2012-02-29 00:43:43 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 186 2012-02-29 00:45:17 cyberdo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 187 2012-02-29 00:47:54 cyberdo has joined
 188 2012-02-29 00:51:19 <graingert> luke-jr: ಠ_ಠ
 189 2012-02-29 00:51:26 <luke-jr> graingert: ?
 190 2012-02-29 00:51:33 <graingert> they do, is not an argument
 191 2012-02-29 00:51:38 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 192 2012-02-29 00:51:49 <sipa> etotheipi_: by the way, you have any better name for "chain code" ?
 193 2012-02-29 00:52:42 <sipa> (or others?)
 194 2012-02-29 00:52:42 <etotheipi_> actually, I originally meant it for "chaining private keys together", but I guess you could still refer to the "branches" as "address chains" so I think it's still appropriate
 195 2012-02-29 00:53:32 <sipa> It's not really a chain in the sense that they are not derived from eachother, but only from a common parent.
 196 2012-02-29 00:53:59 <sipa> My best description would be "derivation salt", i think.
 197 2012-02-29 00:54:00 <etotheipi_> well it's still a sequence of addresses with a clear order
 198 2012-02-29 00:54:15 <etotheipi_> even if they don't require computing the previous value
 199 2012-02-29 00:55:48 <etotheipi_> heh, I like how we've switched positions on this one:  I originally suggested the name of it could be changed, and you guys didn't think it was important
 200 2012-02-29 00:55:58 <etotheipi_> or maybe you were just dealing with other things at the time
 201 2012-02-29 00:56:08 <etotheipi_> and now I think it's a plenty-appropriate name for it
 202 2012-02-29 00:56:28 <sipa> haha
 203 2012-02-29 00:56:33 <sipa> I don't really care.
 204 2012-02-29 00:56:48 B0g4r7_ has joined
 205 2012-02-29 00:58:14 tower has quit (Disconnected by services)
 206 2012-02-29 00:58:27 tower has joined
 207 2012-02-29 00:58:43 <da2ce7> sipa HDW
 208 2012-02-29 00:58:51 <da2ce7> we can call the HD-Wallets
 209 2012-02-29 00:58:53 <da2ce7> :)
 210 2012-02-29 00:58:56 <da2ce7> good marketing.
 211 2012-02-29 00:59:03 <sipa> oooh, buzzword compliancy
 212 2012-02-29 00:59:05 <sipa> i like
 213 2012-02-29 00:59:06 <etotheipi_> haha
 214 2012-02-29 00:59:56 <BlueMatt> if you are gonna go down that route, there are a ton more buzzwords to add...
 215 2012-02-29 01:00:23 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 216 2012-02-29 01:00:23 B0g4r7_ is now known as B0g4r7
 217 2012-02-29 01:00:44 <sipa> BlueMatt: as it allows parallelization of key generation, it can be considered a scalable enterprise solution
 218 2012-02-29 01:01:06 <BlueMatt> there we go, now thats the kind of buzzword thinking we need around here
 219 2012-02-29 01:01:19 <BlueMatt> HD Enterprise Wallets
 220 2012-02-29 01:01:35 <sipa> furthermore, as single-chain pubkey codes do not reveal any private information, they can safely be uploaded to the Cloud(tm)
 221 2012-02-29 01:01:44 <da2ce7> lol
 222 2012-02-29 01:01:46 <BlueMatt> great, lets keep it going
 223 2012-02-29 01:01:54 <BlueMatt> HD Enterprise Cloud Wallets
 224 2012-02-29 01:02:01 <etotheipi_> you know I never noticed that the secp256k1 curve has super-simple coefficients.... in x^3 + ax + b,  a=0 and b=7
 225 2012-02-29 01:02:15 <etotheipi_> so it's really just y^2 = x^3 + 7
 226 2012-02-29 01:02:20 <BlueMatt> really? damn
 227 2012-02-29 01:02:43 <sipa> etotheipi_: Hal feared secp256k1 because its simplicity
 228 2012-02-29 01:02:59 <etotheipi_> I would've expected full 32-byte coefficients
 229 2012-02-29 01:03:26 <sipa> secp256r1 does have such coefficients, and is apparently considered more safe because of it
 230 2012-02-29 01:03:28 <etotheipi_> well, I guess modular arithmatic is powerful enough that such complexities are unnecessary
 231 2012-02-29 01:03:40 <sipa> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2699.0
 232 2012-02-29 01:03:40 <da2ce7> sipa: why only a 32-byte root seed?
 233 2012-02-29 01:03:45 <sipa> da2ce7: why more?
 234 2012-02-29 01:03:59 <sipa> we don't over more than 128-bit security anyway
 235 2012-02-29 01:04:13 <graingert> would it not be better to define the key type in the address
 236 2012-02-29 01:04:14 <da2ce7> hmm; ok.
 237 2012-02-29 01:04:22 <graingert> or pubkey
 238 2012-02-29 01:04:39 <sipa> graingert: not sure what you mean; addresses have not yet come into the picture
 239 2012-02-29 01:04:52 <graingert> sorry pubkey
 240 2012-02-29 01:05:04 <sipa> what would the "key type" be?
 241 2012-02-29 01:05:05 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 242 2012-02-29 01:05:09 <graingert> hash(pubkey + "sep" + enc type)
 243 2012-02-29 01:05:10 <sipa> Ah, you mean secp256k1?
 244 2012-02-29 01:05:24 <graingert> could extend to rsa
 245 2012-02-29 01:05:25 <sipa> No need, there is a version byte for such things.
 246 2012-02-29 01:05:27 <graingert> or rot13
 247 2012-02-29 01:05:37 * sipa prefers triple-rot13
 248 2012-02-29 01:06:06 <sipa> But adding a new signature scheme would imply a hardfork, so...
 249 2012-02-29 01:06:10 <sipa> ... wait, it doesn't
 250 2012-02-29 01:06:25 sacarlson has joined
 251 2012-02-29 01:06:36 <BlueMatt> sipa: tripple? thats weak quad-rot13 is the way to go
 252 2012-02-29 01:07:11 <da2ce7> sipa: we should also define a standard for 'easly human rememberable wallets' aka... Wallet Name:  UserName: Passphase: that is all hashed to create a key.
 253 2012-02-29 01:07:40 <da2ce7> so the wallet name, username, and password are all hashed together to make the seed.
 254 2012-02-29 01:07:42 <etotheipi_> da2ce7, this has been talked about a lot:  there's a ton of risk of people sharing wallets when they use overly-simple passphrases
 255 2012-02-29 01:07:44 Staatsfeind has joined
 256 2012-02-29 01:07:50 <sipa> da2ce7: I don't like that, I prefer randomly generated masterkeys, which can be written on paper.
 257 2012-02-29 01:07:52 <BlueMatt> da2ce7: I still really prefer the printable computer-generated ones
 258 2012-02-29 01:08:24 <etotheipi_> if someone knows your wallet name and username... they can too easily guess your password... you *really* need that full 32-bytes of entropy in the master key
 259 2012-02-29 01:08:24 <da2ce7> BlueMatt: sure, but if the risks are clearly explained... it would be super handy, for example when traveling.
 260 2012-02-29 01:08:49 <BlueMatt> da2ce7: ever heard of a flash drive?
 261 2012-02-29 01:08:57 <BlueMatt> I hear you can encrypt those...
 262 2012-02-29 01:09:02 <sipa> da2ce7: I don't approve of using the block chain as your wallet (though for simple usage it may be possible).
 263 2012-02-29 01:10:14 <da2ce7> hmm... I think that it would be usefull... I would use my credit card number as one of the feilds... there is no problem in carrying a credit card over any boarder; then ill also remember a phase.
 264 2012-02-29 01:10:38 <sipa> etotheipi_: well, casascius' first generation coins have only 123 bits of entropy.
 265 2012-02-29 01:12:19 <da2ce7> sipa: how dose the HDW handel Encryption?  are you going to include that in the standard?
 266 2012-02-29 01:12:43 <BlueMatt> da2ce7: get it right, its (at least) HDEC Wallets
 267 2012-02-29 01:13:39 <da2ce7> HDEC Wallets... hmm but do we really need to specify that it is EC cypto?
 268 2012-02-29 01:13:48 <sipa> da2ce7: actually, no
 269 2012-02-29 01:13:49 <BlueMatt> HE-Enterprise-Cloud Wallets
 270 2012-02-29 01:14:22 <sipa> da2ce7: you can store [P(s),Encrypt(s),c]
 271 2012-02-29 01:16:06 <da2ce7> yep.  hmm... well if we can make this into a flat-file.txt format.  including an standard way of handeling encyption; then bitcoin-qit, bitcoinj, armory, multibit et'all could all impment the same format.
 272 2012-02-29 01:17:32 <da2ce7> bitcoin-walletchain:(P(s)....)  io handeler for links.
 273 2012-02-29 01:17:57 <da2ce7> so mtgox could give you a private key pair, to sweep coins from, to withdraw.
 274 2012-02-29 01:18:02 <da2ce7> *chain
 275 2012-02-29 01:18:44 <da2ce7> and send to a differnt address every time you withdraw... no need to load up bitocoin to generate 'yet annother' address.
 276 2012-02-29 01:19:55 <etotheipi_> sipa, actually I didn't mean to suggest that they need the full 256-bits of entropy... but they need way more entropy that a user-generated passphrase alone
 277 2012-02-29 01:20:03 vigilyn has joined
 278 2012-02-29 01:20:10 <sipa> etotheipi_: i completely agree
 279 2012-02-29 01:20:33 <etotheipi_> because no matter what warnings you give, people will use their first name as their password, and then post about all their coins getting stolen, creating FUD fodder for opponents of bitcoin
 280 2012-02-29 01:20:41 <etotheipi_> and of course they'll never admit they used a weak passphrase
 281 2012-02-29 01:21:18 <sipa> How do you mean "bitcoin" is not a good password? I don't think many peope would think of that!
 282 2012-02-29 01:21:38 * BlueMatt goes to change his password on bitcointalk.org
 283 2012-02-29 01:22:09 <da2ce7> etotheipi_: yep... maybe have a option for people to include a passphase in the key generation.  So we give them a 'write this code down, and optionaly supply a password'
 284 2012-02-29 01:22:22 <da2ce7> *seed
 285 2012-02-29 01:23:28 <da2ce7> so they print out their qrcode/random base58 string... and also have a phasephase for the seed. :P
 286 2012-02-29 01:27:11 <graingert> BlueMatt: why?
 287 2012-02-29 01:28:19 <BlueMatt> why what?
 288 2012-02-29 01:28:29 <da2ce7> graingert: it was ''Bitcoin'
 289 2012-02-29 01:28:43 <BlueMatt> Im not that stupid, it was B1tcoin ;)_
 290 2012-02-29 01:28:58 <BlueMatt> (actually, in reality, it was a randomly generated string just like all my passwords)
 291 2012-02-29 01:29:52 <da2ce7> gpg -a --gen-random 3 32
 292 2012-02-29 01:29:55 <da2ce7> *no
 293 2012-02-29 01:30:12 <BlueMatt> actually keepassx
 294 2012-02-29 01:30:24 <da2ce7> gpg -a --gen-random 1 32
 295 2012-02-29 01:30:25 <da2ce7> :)
 296 2012-02-29 01:30:40 <da2ce7> that is what I use... very handy... and gpg is installed everywhere.
 297 2012-02-29 01:30:54 <da2ce7> produces something like; f6RHYZ30X0OCysz7s7ADjcAQCNd6V2hizCRF8wX7QBE=
 298 2012-02-29 01:30:54 <BlueMatt> but doesnt have a built-in password manager
 299 2012-02-29 01:31:14 <BlueMatt> also, I can easily customize for broken websites which wont let you use special character x or y
 300 2012-02-29 01:31:43 <da2ce7> BlueMatt that is why you pass it throogh gpg -e -a and email the result to yourself.
 301 2012-02-29 01:32:00 <da2ce7> BlueMatt lawl.
 302 2012-02-29 01:32:09 <BlueMatt> thats a pita compared to a program built for password management
 303 2012-02-29 01:32:26 b4epoche_ has joined
 304 2012-02-29 01:33:25 b4epoche has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 305 2012-02-29 01:33:25 b4epoche_ is now known as b4epoche
 306 2012-02-29 01:34:32 <BlueMatt> also, I can load my password db on android, or really any computer, and there are good flash-drive versions too
 307 2012-02-29 01:34:44 <BlueMatt> so, even if its not as ubiquitous as gpg, its pretty damn good
 308 2012-02-29 01:35:00 <graingert> lastpass is cool too
 309 2012-02-29 01:35:29 <BlueMatt>  /nod, but even if it is awesome, I still prefer a local version
 310 2012-02-29 01:35:44 <sipa> you can create a backup yourself
 311 2012-02-29 01:36:00 <sipa> though it's quite manual
 312 2012-02-29 01:36:14 <BlueMatt> yea, but I sync it to my phone and server in germany anyway, so...
 313 2012-02-29 01:36:21 <BlueMatt> (automatically)
 314 2012-02-29 01:36:27 <BlueMatt> (in addition to bitcoin wallet, etc)
 315 2012-02-29 01:36:47 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 316 2012-02-29 01:37:59 da2ce7 has joined
 317 2012-02-29 01:41:41 <graingert> KeePassX or KeePass2 ?
 318 2012-02-29 01:41:47 <graingert> BlueMatt ^
 319 2012-02-29 01:41:58 <BlueMatt> X, did they finally make a linux version for version2?
 320 2012-02-29 01:42:09 <graingert> yup
 321 2012-02-29 01:42:13 <graingert> in ubuntu
 322 2012-02-29 01:42:16 <BlueMatt> android too?
 323 2012-02-29 01:42:27 <graingert> yep
 324 2012-02-29 01:42:34 <graingert> keepassdroid
 325 2012-02-29 01:42:42 <graingert> http://www.androlib.com/android.application.com-android-keepass-qtw.aspx
 326 2012-02-29 01:42:52 <graingert> which should I get?
 327 2012-02-29 01:43:28 <BlueMatt> nfc, when I started there was no Keepass version 2 in ubuntu
 328 2012-02-29 01:43:32 <BlueMatt> x was the only option
 329 2012-02-29 01:43:52 <BlueMatt> might upgrade sometime though
 330 2012-02-29 01:45:10 <da2ce7> ok... there is something that I really want to have... a p2sh.  where there is two sets of output, 1.  output if both key A and B sign.  2. if key C is used you can only send the coins to address X
 331 2012-02-29 01:45:28 splatster has joined
 332 2012-02-29 01:45:51 <luke-jr> da2ce7: I think you mean a multisig :P
 333 2012-02-29 01:46:15 <luke-jr> unfortunately, scriptPubKey has no access to information from the spender's scriptPubKey
 334 2012-02-29 01:47:15 <da2ce7> if A & B both agree, the coins can be send to any address... however A || B can send the coins to a pre-definded address.
 335 2012-02-29 01:47:27 <da2ce7> (say the address of an court)
 336 2012-02-29 01:47:32 <da2ce7> *a
 337 2012-02-29 01:47:42 <da2ce7> and that address is pre-defined in the script.
 338 2012-02-29 01:47:45 <luke-jr> da2ce7: not possible
 339 2012-02-29 01:48:05 <da2ce7> what modifications would be needed to the scripting engine to make it possible.
 340 2012-02-29 01:48:26 <luke-jr> something like BIP 17, but more flexible
 341 2012-02-29 01:48:52 <sipa> I'd add such things as soon as we replace the script language completely :)
 342 2012-02-29 01:48:55 <luke-jr> ^
 343 2012-02-29 01:49:30 <da2ce7> :(
 344 2012-02-29 01:49:47 <da2ce7> it is a really important use-case
 345 2012-02-29 01:49:48 marf_away has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 346 2012-02-29 01:50:02 <sipa> it's also a very fundament change that is required
 347 2012-02-29 01:50:21 <luke-jr> da2ce7: could just as well make it 2-of-A,B,court
 348 2012-02-29 01:50:23 <luke-jr> :p
 349 2012-02-29 01:52:06 <da2ce7> luke-jr: sure, but then one of the partys need to contact the court first; and the court can steal the coins at anytime.  maybe...
 350 2012-02-29 01:52:25 <luke-jr> da2ce7: huh? no
 351 2012-02-29 01:52:55 <da2ce7> hmm...
 352 2012-02-29 01:53:28 <da2ce7> the other thing.. is that we could nest p2sh... so the court address. could define a script.
 353 2012-02-29 02:01:17 sacarlson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 354 2012-02-29 02:07:32 gp5st has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 355 2012-02-29 02:09:54 graingert has left ()
 356 2012-02-29 02:11:42 da2ce7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 357 2012-02-29 02:14:02 SomeoneWeirdzzzz is now known as SomeoneWeird
 358 2012-02-29 02:14:12 da2ce7 has joined
 359 2012-02-29 02:14:49 Turingi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 360 2012-02-29 02:16:09 user has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 361 2012-02-29 02:17:14 cryptoxchange has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 362 2012-02-29 02:18:49 sacarlson has joined
 363 2012-02-29 02:23:01 CryptoX has joined
 364 2012-02-29 02:23:25 CryptoX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 365 2012-02-29 02:25:49 CryptoX has joined
 366 2012-02-29 02:41:01 bitcoinsarefun is now known as zz_bitcoinsarefu
 367 2012-02-29 02:41:29 da2ce7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 368 2012-02-29 02:45:41 zz_bitcoinsarefu has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
 369 2012-02-29 02:52:31 da2ce7 has joined
 370 2012-02-29 02:55:43 <da2ce7> etotheipi_: with your client... there is no problem on windows with always using as much ram as you like... just set it to low priority memory, and windows will automcaticly swap it out for you.
 371 2012-02-29 02:56:24 <etotheipi_> da2ce7, ehhh... that's not suffiicent
 372 2012-02-29 02:56:33 <etotheipi_> I don't want to allocate that much RAM at all
 373 2012-02-29 02:56:55 <etotheipi_> I originally wrote it the way I did to prove how freakin' fast it can be to scan the blockchain... didn't realize I'd later use it to build a client
 374 2012-02-29 02:56:58 <sipa> you're not allocating RAM, you're allocating virtual memory </pedantic>
 375 2012-02-29 02:57:57 <da2ce7> windows itself uses that for superfetch; the fast loading of programs.  it is designed for alication of low-priority data
 376 2012-02-29 02:58:26 <da2ce7> it will not slow down winodws, and will run on computers with less than 2gb of ram.
 377 2012-02-29 02:58:44 <etotheipi_> except I want a better solution, anyway, without using swap
 378 2012-02-29 02:59:50 <da2ce7> as 'everything' will take higher preference than it... but you get caching for free. At the kernel level.
 379 2012-02-29 03:00:46 <sipa> but you do not want that
 380 2012-02-29 03:00:59 <sipa> you want the data to resize in your database file
 381 2012-02-29 03:01:07 <sipa> not in swap, however low priority it is
 382 2012-02-29 03:01:13 <sipa> *reside
 383 2012-02-29 03:01:24 <etotheipi_> well, I will be taking a compromise approach, at least originally:  mmap
 384 2012-02-29 03:01:29 <etotheipi_> and the equivalent on windows
 385 2012-02-29 03:01:50 <sipa> i was about to suggest that :)
 386 2012-02-29 03:01:51 <etotheipi_> it looks like much of what I've already done works beautifully with mmap without changing much
 387 2012-02-29 03:02:08 <etotheipi_> except for all those operations that used to take a fraction of a second but now take 20s
 388 2012-02-29 03:02:14 <etotheipi_> so I have to re-arrange some calculations...
 389 2012-02-29 03:02:30 <da2ce7> sipa: isn't that what it is designed for... low prioirty temporary apllication data, that can be sored in ram if the ram is spare?
 390 2012-02-29 03:02:53 <sipa> da2ce7: except the block chain is not temporary data :)
 391 2012-02-29 03:03:13 <etotheipi_> basically, mmap does exactly what you're saying, but doesn't use swap... it uses the disk space already occupied by the blockchain
 392 2012-02-29 03:03:17 TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)
 393 2012-02-29 03:03:43 [7] has joined
 394 2012-02-29 03:03:55 <da2ce7> sipa: the block chain 'working set' should be generated from the chain on disk, on load.
 395 2012-02-29 03:04:04 <etotheipi_> AND, as you said... if you have the RAM, it will cache it, and work just as well as the full-RAM implementation
 396 2012-02-29 03:04:10 <da2ce7> and be built up as needed.
 397 2012-02-29 03:04:12 <sipa> da2ce7: which is exactly what mmap does
 398 2012-02-29 03:04:37 <da2ce7> :S
 399 2012-02-29 03:05:14 <etotheipi_> if the blockchain wasn't on disk already, I'd be with you... but there's no reason for it to get copied to swap (just another part of the disk) and consume the swap space that might be needed by the user
 400 2012-02-29 03:06:08 <etotheipi_> speaking of this...  is there any push to start expanding blockchain into blk0002.dat, blk0003.dat?
 401 2012-02-29 03:06:23 <sipa> etotheipi_: yes, they are limited to 1 GiB
 402 2012-02-29 03:06:25 <etotheipi_> I mean, shouldn't we be concerned about blockchain size getting too big?
 403 2012-02-29 03:06:35 <etotheipi_> oh shit... so that's automatic?
 404 2012-02-29 03:06:38 <sipa> yes
 405 2012-02-29 03:06:53 <etotheipi_> that means Armory will stop working shortly...
 406 2012-02-29 03:07:06 <sipa> i think you still have time :)
 407 2012-02-29 03:07:15 <luke-jr> Armory shares blk* with bitcoind?
 408 2012-02-29 03:07:17 <etotheipi_> not much, last I checked we were approaching quickly
 409 2012-02-29 03:07:25 <etotheipi_> luke-jr, it's read-only
 410 2012-02-29 03:07:32 <luke-jr> hm
 411 2012-02-29 03:07:34 <da2ce7> sipa: has sombody made a stupid number of testnet tx to test the splitting yet?
 412 2012-02-29 03:07:43 <sipa> ?
 413 2012-02-29 03:07:58 lvella has quit (Quit: Saindo)
 414 2012-02-29 03:08:37 <da2ce7> have we tested the code that splits blk000x > blk000xyz
 415 2012-02-29 03:09:34 <sipa> da2ce7: transactions won't help for that; orphans/memory pool transactions are not saved to disk
 416 2012-02-29 03:09:36 m00p has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 417 2012-02-29 03:10:47 <da2ce7> shure but couldn't somebody fillup 20K testnet blocks at 50kb each?
 418 2012-02-29 03:11:11 <luke-jr> … or just reduce their file size to 10 KB :p
 419 2012-02-29 03:11:24 <sipa> i assume/hope satoshi tested it that way
 420 2012-02-29 03:11:35 <da2ce7> :O
 421 2012-02-29 03:11:45 * da2ce7 goes over to the corner and feels stupid again
 422 2012-02-29 03:13:43 <sipa> seems we still have some time
 423 2012-02-29 03:13:50 <sipa> etotheipi_: 0x7F000000 is the max size per block file
 424 2012-02-29 03:14:10 <sipa> 2.13 GB
 425 2012-02-29 03:14:14 <luke-jr> …
 426 2012-02-29 03:14:17 <luke-jr> that should be reduced
 427 2012-02-29 03:14:18 <etotheipi_> ooh, then I got quite a bit of time
 428 2012-02-29 03:14:25 <luke-jr> FAT32 maxes out at 2 GB
 429 2012-02-29 03:14:43 <da2ce7> I thought 4gb
 430 2012-02-29 03:14:45 <sipa> luke-jr: no, it maxes out at 2 GiB
 431 2012-02-29 03:14:54 <da2ce7> ahh
 432 2012-02-29 03:15:01 <luke-jr> GB*
 433 2012-02-29 03:15:05 <etotheipi_> but it will be an easy fix for me... I just gotta scan the bitcoin dir for all blkxxxx.dat files
 434 2012-02-29 03:16:23 <etotheipi_> is there a C++-platform independent way of doing that?
 435 2012-02-29 03:16:43 <etotheipi_> I forgot I always branched it in my code at work ,but it seemed inelegant
 436 2012-02-29 03:17:20 <luke-jr> glob!
 437 2012-02-29 03:17:28 <luke-jr> <.<
 438 2012-02-29 03:17:58 MobiusL has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 439 2012-02-29 03:17:59 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 440 2012-02-29 03:18:51 MobiusL has joined
 441 2012-02-29 03:27:15 `Jaka has joined
 442 2012-02-29 03:27:56 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 443 2012-02-29 03:30:02 Mango-chan has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 444 2012-02-29 03:30:18 finway has joined
 445 2012-02-29 03:30:27 <finway> ;;seen roconnor
 446 2012-02-29 03:30:27 <gribble> roconnor was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 week, 4 days, 11 hours, 49 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <roconnor> Dear user n27pHgA6KioCvXUCdijzdFjeaa9kHA7kzi, Due to your violation of bitcoin TOS your asset has been frozen and your private key is being disclosed as 9afaa65b092e4c82ea752080bee6ce53398207dca480f64c82f32bdb7f85b7e5. Have a nice day, and thank you for using bitcoin.
 447 2012-02-29 03:30:31 CryptoX has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 448 2012-02-29 03:31:42 `Jaka has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 449 2012-02-29 03:31:52 <luke-jr> hi finway
 450 2012-02-29 03:32:00 <finway> hi,luke
 451 2012-02-29 03:32:57 <finway> What's that mean?
 452 2012-02-29 03:33:04 <finway> private key is being disclosed
 453 2012-02-29 03:33:04 Mango-chan has joined
 454 2012-02-29 03:33:05 Mango-chan has quit (Changing host)
 455 2012-02-29 03:33:05 Mango-chan has joined
 456 2012-02-29 03:33:08 <finway> a new bug ?
 457 2012-02-29 03:33:19 <luke-jr> finway: nah, I think that was a troll
 458 2012-02-29 03:33:56 <finway> the address seems  BIP16 ?
 459 2012-02-29 03:33:58 <luke-jr> n27… is a namecoin addr anyhow
 460 2012-02-29 03:34:05 <luke-jr> BIP16/17 begin with 3…
 461 2012-02-29 03:34:07 <finway> oh
 462 2012-02-29 03:34:32 <finway> so blockexplorer.com/testnet can explore namecoin ?
 463 2012-02-29 03:35:04 eoss has joined
 464 2012-02-29 03:35:04 eoss has quit (Changing host)
 465 2012-02-29 03:35:04 eoss has joined
 466 2012-02-29 03:35:15 <luke-jr> finway: no?
 467 2012-02-29 03:37:29 <sipa> finway: it's just a testnet address
 468 2012-02-29 03:39:22 <finway> http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/address/n27pHgA6KioCvXUCdijzdFjeaa9kHA7kzi
 469 2012-02-29 03:39:24 <finway> oh, i see
 470 2012-02-29 03:39:53 <finway> Does Nefario live in China ?
 471 2012-02-29 03:43:47 JRWR has joined
 472 2012-02-29 03:44:44 finway has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 473 2012-02-29 03:47:54 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: I cna ytpe 300 wrods pre mniuet!!!)
 474 2012-02-29 03:53:00 stalled has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 475 2012-02-29 03:55:14 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 476 2012-02-29 03:56:01 m00p has joined
 477 2012-02-29 03:59:11 [7] has quit (Disconnected by services)
 478 2012-02-29 03:59:19 TheSeven has joined
 479 2012-02-29 04:00:08 barmstrong has joined
 480 2012-02-29 04:03:52 rdponticelli_ has joined
 481 2012-02-29 04:04:50 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 482 2012-02-29 04:08:19 eoss has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 483 2012-02-29 04:13:07 Cablesaurus has joined
 484 2012-02-29 04:13:07 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
 485 2012-02-29 04:13:07 Cablesaurus has joined
 486 2012-02-29 04:23:56 <etotheipi_> is there something special about block 47329 on testnet?  none of my testnet clients seem to be able to catch up
 487 2012-02-29 04:31:07 FaktioNN has quit ()
 488 2012-02-29 04:38:50 num1 has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
 489 2012-02-29 04:39:01 num1 has joined
 490 2012-02-29 04:43:43 noagendamarket has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 491 2012-02-29 04:46:01 noagendamarket has joined
 492 2012-02-29 04:46:10 <etotheipi_> rather... I have 2 testnet clients running, and both are stuck at that block
 493 2012-02-29 04:46:24 <etotheipi_> anyone else see this?
 494 2012-02-29 04:50:17 MobiusL has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 495 2012-02-29 04:50:37 RobinPKR_ has joined
 496 2012-02-29 04:51:14 MobiusL has joined
 497 2012-02-29 04:53:05 RobinPKR has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 498 2012-02-29 04:53:05 RobinPKR_ is now known as RobinPKR
 499 2012-02-29 05:04:15 Kiba has joined
 500 2012-02-29 05:04:22 <Kiba> howdy howdy
 501 2012-02-29 05:06:33 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 502 2012-02-29 05:07:59 CaptainDDL has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 503 2012-02-29 05:27:14 localhost has joined
 504 2012-02-29 05:44:12 localhost has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 505 2012-02-29 05:45:25 b4epoche_ has joined
 506 2012-02-29 05:46:09 b4epoche has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 507 2012-02-29 05:46:09 b4epoche_ is now known as b4epoche
 508 2012-02-29 05:51:50 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: On the other hand, you have different fingers.)
 509 2012-02-29 05:54:30 Cablesaurus has joined
 510 2012-02-29 05:54:30 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
 511 2012-02-29 05:54:30 Cablesaurus has joined
 512 2012-02-29 05:56:23 jav__ has joined
 513 2012-02-29 06:01:07 localhost has joined
 514 2012-02-29 06:05:23 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 515 2012-02-29 06:07:41 sacarlson has joined
 516 2012-02-29 06:09:31 zooko has joined
 517 2012-02-29 06:10:56 da2ce7 has joined
 518 2012-02-29 06:14:03 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 519 2012-02-29 06:19:46 JRWR has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 520 2012-02-29 06:19:49 graingert has joined
 521 2012-02-29 06:20:12 m00p has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 522 2012-02-29 06:48:38 RazielZ has joined
 523 2012-02-29 06:55:17 graingert has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 524 2012-02-29 06:56:56 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 525 2012-02-29 06:58:15 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Few women admit their age.  Few men act theirs.)
 526 2012-02-29 07:05:38 SomeoneWeird is now known as SomeoneWeird1
 527 2012-02-29 07:09:58 Staatsfeind has quit (Quit: leaving)
 528 2012-02-29 07:19:46 word_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 529 2012-02-29 07:20:29 word_ has joined
 530 2012-02-29 07:24:29 word_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 531 2012-02-29 07:25:15 word_ has joined
 532 2012-02-29 07:26:30 zooko has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 533 2012-02-29 07:31:26 Cablesaurus has joined
 534 2012-02-29 07:31:26 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
 535 2012-02-29 07:31:26 Cablesaurus has joined
 536 2012-02-29 07:40:17 SomeoneWeird1 is now known as SomeoneWeird
 537 2012-02-29 07:46:38 danbri has joined
 538 2012-02-29 07:54:18 MrTiggr has joined
 539 2012-02-29 07:55:44 stalled has joined
 540 2012-02-29 08:03:20 splatster has quit (Quit: I'm a "people person," just not a "stupid people person.")
 541 2012-02-29 08:06:53 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 542 2012-02-29 08:09:42 tower has joined
 543 2012-02-29 08:10:37 da2ce7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 544 2012-02-29 08:11:57 da2ce7 has joined
 545 2012-02-29 08:18:04 copumpkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 546 2012-02-29 08:18:05 pumpkin has joined
 547 2012-02-29 08:18:07 pumpkin is now known as copumpkin
 548 2012-02-29 08:19:08 random_cat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 549 2012-02-29 08:19:47 pickett has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 550 2012-02-29 08:21:03 pickett has joined
 551 2012-02-29 08:22:42 random_cat has joined
 552 2012-02-29 08:25:23 Habbie has quit (Quit: upgrades)
 553 2012-02-29 08:27:43 Habbie has joined
 554 2012-02-29 08:29:11 maqr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 555 2012-02-29 08:35:02 maqr has joined
 556 2012-02-29 08:46:38 OneMiner has joined
 557 2012-02-29 08:46:57 <OneMiner> Hey guys I think I have an error to report.
 558 2012-02-29 08:47:58 <OneMiner> Client version 0.5.1-beta prevents Windows 7 64bit from completing a commanded time sync with the internet. When the client is closed time sync works well.
 559 2012-02-29 09:01:28 jav__ has quit (Quit: Verlassend)
 560 2012-02-29 09:05:55 TD has joined
 561 2012-02-29 09:09:14 da2ce7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 562 2012-02-29 09:10:38 da2ce7 has joined
 563 2012-02-29 09:22:11 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 564 2012-02-29 09:31:10 ThomasV has joined
 565 2012-02-29 09:31:30 ThomasV has quit (Client Quit)
 566 2012-02-29 09:33:15 marf_away has joined
 567 2012-02-29 09:47:36 erle- has joined
 568 2012-02-29 09:50:35 [Tycho] has joined
 569 2012-02-29 09:56:20 b4epoche_ has joined
 570 2012-02-29 09:57:08 b4epoche has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 571 2012-02-29 09:57:08 b4epoche_ is now known as b4epoche
 572 2012-02-29 10:05:05 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 573 2012-02-29 10:07:32 sacarlson has joined
 574 2012-02-29 10:15:30 da2ce7 has joined
 575 2012-02-29 10:20:50 [Tycho] has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 576 2012-02-29 10:22:00 RazielZ has quit ()
 577 2012-02-29 10:42:42 cande has joined
 578 2012-02-29 10:42:51 iocor has joined
 579 2012-02-29 10:59:26 danbri has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 580 2012-02-29 11:00:20 danbri has joined
 581 2012-02-29 11:06:15 cande has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
 582 2012-02-29 11:15:53 RazielZ has joined
 583 2012-02-29 11:16:40 Clipse has joined
 584 2012-02-29 11:18:06 molecular has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 585 2012-02-29 11:24:04 larsivi has joined
 586 2012-02-29 11:32:25 molecular has joined
 587 2012-02-29 11:45:50 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 588 2012-02-29 11:51:31 devrandom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 589 2012-02-29 11:51:52 devrandom has joined
 590 2012-02-29 11:56:10 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 591 2012-02-29 11:59:50 molecular has joined
 592 2012-02-29 12:23:56 rdponticelli_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 593 2012-02-29 12:24:43 rdponticelli has joined
 594 2012-02-29 12:33:58 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 595 2012-02-29 12:41:41 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 596 2012-02-29 12:45:38 Pasha has joined
 597 2012-02-29 12:45:41 Cory has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 598 2012-02-29 12:45:45 Pasha is now known as Cory
 599 2012-02-29 12:45:51 Cory has quit (Changing host)
 600 2012-02-29 12:45:51 Cory has joined
 601 2012-02-29 12:46:11 chrisb__ has joined
 602 2012-02-29 12:56:46 B0g4r7_ has joined
 603 2012-02-29 13:00:36 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 604 2012-02-29 13:00:36 B0g4r7_ is now known as B0g4r7
 605 2012-02-29 13:05:18 shlnvxaca has joined
 606 2012-02-29 13:10:03 minimoose has joined
 607 2012-02-29 13:10:45 rdponticelli has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 608 2012-02-29 13:13:03 rdponticelli has joined
 609 2012-02-29 13:15:29 Snapman`420 is now known as Snapman
 610 2012-02-29 13:20:05 da2ce7 has joined
 611 2012-02-29 13:24:24 Diablo-D3 has joined
 612 2012-02-29 13:28:53 pingdrive has joined
 613 2012-02-29 13:31:19 pingdrive has quit (Client Quit)
 614 2012-02-29 13:39:00 kish has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 615 2012-02-29 13:40:02 gp5st has joined
 616 2012-02-29 13:44:39 agricocb has joined
 617 2012-02-29 13:46:46 [eval] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 618 2012-02-29 14:01:54 [\\\\] is now known as imsaguy2
 619 2012-02-29 14:02:49 sje has quit (Quit: sje)
 620 2012-02-29 14:03:03 sje has joined
 621 2012-02-29 14:03:03 sje has quit (Client Quit)
 622 2012-02-29 14:03:28 JRWR has joined
 623 2012-02-29 14:04:57 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 624 2012-02-29 14:07:04 b4epoche_ has joined
 625 2012-02-29 14:07:19 danbri has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 626 2012-02-29 14:08:51 b4epoche has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 627 2012-02-29 14:08:51 b4epoche_ is now known as b4epoche
 628 2012-02-29 14:09:57 datagutt has joined
 629 2012-02-29 14:10:04 datagutt has quit (Changing host)
 630 2012-02-29 14:10:05 datagutt has joined
 631 2012-02-29 14:11:27 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 632 2012-02-29 14:13:49 [eval] has joined
 633 2012-02-29 14:18:21 JRWR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 634 2012-02-29 14:18:50 JRWR has joined
 635 2012-02-29 14:20:13 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 636 2012-02-29 14:21:08 JRWR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 637 2012-02-29 14:21:32 JRWR has joined
 638 2012-02-29 14:22:34 JRWR has quit (Client Quit)
 639 2012-02-29 14:22:52 sje has joined
 640 2012-02-29 14:22:52 sje has quit (Changing host)
 641 2012-02-29 14:22:52 sje has joined
 642 2012-02-29 14:26:53 kish has joined
 643 2012-02-29 14:28:51 danbri has joined
 644 2012-02-29 14:33:18 da2ce7 has joined
 645 2012-02-29 14:33:40 kish has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 646 2012-02-29 14:33:45 iocor has joined
 647 2012-02-29 14:37:17 Zarutian has joined
 648 2012-02-29 14:39:30 Enrico_ has joined
 649 2012-02-29 14:40:08 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 650 2012-02-29 14:41:43 Enrico_ has quit (Client Quit)
 651 2012-02-29 14:49:26 zooko has joined
 652 2012-02-29 14:50:06 denisx has joined
 653 2012-02-29 14:57:36 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 654 2012-02-29 14:59:41 iocor has joined
 655 2012-02-29 15:03:56 vigilyn has joined
 656 2012-02-29 15:07:28 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 657 2012-02-29 15:10:29 zz_bitcoinsarefu has joined
 658 2012-02-29 15:10:31 zz_bitcoinsarefu is now known as bitcoinsarefun
 659 2012-02-29 15:13:56 Joric has joined
 660 2012-02-29 15:28:23 gavinandresen has joined
 661 2012-02-29 15:30:05 sje has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 662 2012-02-29 15:35:14 zooko has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 663 2012-02-29 15:41:30 btc_novice has joined
 664 2012-02-29 15:44:06 att has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 665 2012-02-29 15:45:43 imsaguy2 is now known as [\\\\\\\\\\\\\\]
 666 2012-02-29 15:45:46 kish has joined
 667 2012-02-29 15:46:48 SomeoneWeird is now known as SomeoneWeirdzzzz
 668 2012-02-29 15:58:28 copumpkin has joined
 669 2012-02-29 16:05:04 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
 670 2012-02-29 16:11:03 Mad7Scientist has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 671 2012-02-29 16:13:29 [Tycho] has joined
 672 2012-02-29 16:17:27 zooko has joined
 673 2012-02-29 16:18:29 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
 674 2012-02-29 16:23:39 gavinandresen has joined
 675 2012-02-29 16:30:32 twmz_ has joined
 676 2012-02-29 16:36:35 att has joined
 677 2012-02-29 16:37:09 Davincij15 has quit ()
 678 2012-02-29 16:37:32 zooko has left ("#tahoe-lafs")
 679 2012-02-29 16:44:37 chrisb__ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 680 2012-02-29 16:48:03 [\\\\\\\\\\\\\\] is now known as imsaguy2
 681 2012-02-29 16:48:55 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gavinandresen opened pull request 911 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/911>
 682 2012-02-29 16:49:24 MrTiggr has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 683 2012-02-29 16:50:48 erle- has quit (Quit: erle-)
 684 2012-02-29 16:53:26 gavinandresen has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 685 2012-02-29 16:54:37 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 686 2012-02-29 16:58:29 Ahimoth has joined
 687 2012-02-29 17:02:07 Sedra has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 688 2012-02-29 17:04:29 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
 689 2012-02-29 17:08:56 TD has joined
 690 2012-02-29 17:13:53 iocor has joined
 691 2012-02-29 17:15:13 rcorreia_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 692 2012-02-29 17:15:14 shlnvxaca has quit ()
 693 2012-02-29 17:15:19 [Tycho] has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 694 2012-02-29 17:18:17 rcorreia_ has joined
 695 2012-02-29 17:22:46 rcorreia_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 696 2012-02-29 17:24:29 rcorreia_ has joined
 697 2012-02-29 17:25:16 rcorreia_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 698 2012-02-29 17:25:31 coblee has quit (Quit: coblee)
 699 2012-02-29 17:25:36 Sedra has joined
 700 2012-02-29 17:26:29 barmstrong has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 701 2012-02-29 17:26:42 coblee has joined
 702 2012-02-29 17:28:31 rcorreia_ has joined
 703 2012-02-29 17:29:52 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 704 2012-02-29 17:31:21 larsivi has joined
 705 2012-02-29 17:31:43 larsivi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 706 2012-02-29 17:33:48 larsivi has joined
 707 2012-02-29 17:35:16 rcorreia_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 708 2012-02-29 17:36:43 rcorreia_ has joined
 709 2012-02-29 17:37:11 rcorreia_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 710 2012-02-29 17:37:41 Davincij15 has joined
 711 2012-02-29 17:39:33 rdponticelli has joined
 712 2012-02-29 17:41:48 pusle has joined
 713 2012-02-29 17:42:08 rcorreia_ has joined
 714 2012-02-29 17:42:30 p0s has joined
 715 2012-02-29 17:52:30 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
 716 2012-02-29 17:52:44 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 717 2012-02-29 17:57:37 b4epoche has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
 718 2012-02-29 18:04:39 Kiba has left ("ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)")
 719 2012-02-29 18:05:18 Snapman has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
 720 2012-02-29 18:08:05 sacarlson has joined
 721 2012-02-29 18:08:29 localhost has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 722 2012-02-29 18:24:48 gavinandresen has joined
 723 2012-02-29 18:28:51 att has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 724 2012-02-29 18:32:26 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 725 2012-02-29 18:35:28 BlueMatt has joined
 726 2012-02-29 18:40:07 erle- has joined
 727 2012-02-29 18:40:14 barmstrong has joined
 728 2012-02-29 18:42:45 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: are there not better ways to delete a random orphan than just picking a random one?
 729 2012-02-29 18:42:53 <BlueMatt> (oldest one, shortest orphan chain, etc)
 730 2012-02-29 18:43:04 <BlueMatt> (not sure which can be done quickly, but...)
 731 2012-02-29 18:43:27 <gavinandresen> My reasoning for random is:  If there is a particular policy, then it is easy for an attacker to try to workaround that policy
 732 2012-02-29 18:44:07 <gmaxwell> I thought the random decision was a good one.
 733 2012-02-29 18:44:17 <gavinandresen> I don't like oldest, because then an attacker can flood you with orphans and get legitimate orphans out of your pool
 734 2012-02-29 18:44:42 <gavinandresen> ... newest is bad because attacker can fill up your pool with orphans that never go away....
 735 2012-02-29 18:45:04 <BlueMatt> but with random the orphan pool is half-worthless because you often delete orphans that are in the middle of an orphan chain
 736 2012-02-29 18:45:18 <BlueMatt> and then the download from orphan root logic is half-broken
 737 2012-02-29 18:46:04 <BlueMatt> maybe highest-work orphan chain
 738 2012-02-29 18:46:08 <gavinandresen> Again, if the policy is something more complicated it just makes it easier for an attacker to make sure their orphans are preferred....
 739 2012-02-29 18:46:26 <gavinandresen> (there's no work in orphan TRANSACTIONS)
 740 2012-02-29 18:47:19 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: you could write a lot of code to do optimal subgraph dropping. E.g. make the orphans into graphs, then drop a subgraph at random— but to me that sounds like a way to create a DOS attack. :)
 741 2012-02-29 18:48:03 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yea, but I think more thought should be given instead of just drop random...
 742 2012-02-29 18:48:28 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: transactions...uh...oh
 743 2012-02-29 18:48:33 <BlueMatt> nevermind
 744 2012-02-29 18:48:36 <BlueMatt> Ignore all of that
 745 2012-02-29 18:49:19 <gmaxwell> ah, you thought this was about blocks.
 746 2012-02-29 18:49:26 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: :)
 747 2012-02-29 18:49:28 <BlueMatt> yea, somehow...
 748 2012-02-29 18:49:57 Joric has quit ()
 749 2012-02-29 18:50:29 <gmaxwell> The graph code needed to do things like make joint mining decisions (e.g. "I'll mine this txn because there is a dependency with a good fee") could be used to drop orphan txn more smartly— but normally txn aren't orphaned by more than one deep.
 750 2012-02-29 18:51:00 <BlueMatt>  /nod
 751 2012-02-29 18:51:31 <BlueMatt> if its orphaned its not a big deal anyway, since it will be rebroadcasted  eventually if its dropped anyway
 752 2012-02-29 18:51:50 <BlueMatt> if it is valid the owner will make sure it eventually gets in a block
 753 2012-02-29 18:53:12 localhost has joined
 754 2012-02-29 18:53:14 <gavinandresen> yes, for 0.7 turning mapOrphans into a more complicated data structure and evicting old orphans (and maybe dropping peers that send you lots of orphans that never get into blocks) is probably the way to go
 755 2012-02-29 18:53:28 <gavinandresen> for 0.6 just fixing the vulnerability is good enough for now
 756 2012-02-29 18:54:31 <BlueMatt> meh, there is little reason to make it much more complicated (there are more important issues to address) though dropping peers who send too many orphans might be useful
 757 2012-02-29 18:55:13 <jrmithdobbs> that would add the framework to drop peers sending bogus blocks and such too
 758 2012-02-29 18:55:17 <jrmithdobbs> so probably worth the effort
 759 2012-02-29 18:55:18 <gavinandresen> I keep thinking that maybe DoS prevention code at the send/receive messages/bytes might be worthwhile... disconnect any peer that is sending you an unreasonable number of ANY message
 760 2012-02-29 18:55:58 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: just got to keep in mind the problems the last bad dos prevention code caused
 761 2012-02-29 18:56:15 <gavinandresen> jrmithdobbs: yup, gotta be very careful...
 762 2012-02-29 18:56:37 <gavinandresen> jrmithdobbs: (although which one are you talking about?  The latest few DoS patches haven't caused any problems at all)
 763 2012-02-29 18:56:56 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: the original one that caused the painful initial download issues
 764 2012-02-29 18:57:09 <jrmithdobbs> because of too low a threshold
 765 2012-02-29 18:57:27 erle- has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 766 2012-02-29 18:57:29 <gavinandresen> jrmithdobbs: that's what I thought you were talking about...yep, gotta be careful...
 767 2012-02-29 18:57:48 <gavinandresen> jrmithdobbs: there's already a framework for dropping peers sending bogus blocks and such
 768 2012-02-29 18:57:49 Joric has joined
 769 2012-02-29 18:57:50 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: we have a general framework for dropping peers that send bogus stuff. But— we can't drop for anything an innocent peer might relay.
 770 2012-02-29 18:58:02 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: that all was added since you were list digging in the code.
 771 2012-02-29 18:58:19 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: right of course (to your "but ...")
 772 2012-02-29 18:59:04 erle- has joined
 773 2012-02-29 19:03:41 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 774 2012-02-29 19:05:15 barmstrong has joined
 775 2012-02-29 19:05:50 erle- has quit (Quit: erle-)
 776 2012-02-29 19:07:28 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 777 2012-02-29 19:15:52 ThomasV has joined
 778 2012-02-29 19:24:23 Staatsfeind has joined
 779 2012-02-29 19:29:57 bitcoinsarefun is now known as zz_bitcoinsarefu
 780 2012-02-29 19:31:54 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 781 2012-02-29 19:39:59 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: If you think nobody cares, try missing a few payments)
 782 2012-02-29 19:47:49 MobiusL has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 783 2012-02-29 19:48:17 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 784 2012-02-29 19:52:16 MobiusL has joined
 785 2012-02-29 19:52:49 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 786 2012-02-29 19:59:10 datagutt is now known as Pele[BBB]
 787 2012-02-29 19:59:23 Pele[BBB] is now known as Pele[ROFL]
 788 2012-02-29 19:59:47 Pele[ROFL] is now known as Pele[ABC]
 789 2012-02-29 20:00:18 Pele[ABC] is now known as datagutt
 790 2012-02-29 20:00:20 rdponticelli has joined
 791 2012-02-29 20:00:21 <BlueMatt> sipa: are you actually using the term HDW in code?
 792 2012-02-29 20:00:51 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: whats the status on getting an 0.6.0rc2 tag?
 793 2012-02-29 20:01:20 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: I'm gitian-building git head now, if it compiles nicely I'll tag it
 794 2012-02-29 20:01:30 <BlueMatt> ok, nice
 795 2012-02-29 20:02:02 <BlueMatt> mind double-building to double-check the determinism?
 796 2012-02-29 20:02:39 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: sure, I can do that.  Takes a while for my gitian machine to do a build, though
 797 2012-02-29 20:04:43 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 798 2012-02-29 20:05:45 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
 799 2012-02-29 20:07:04 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 800 2012-02-29 20:07:30 agricocb has joined
 801 2012-02-29 20:07:30 sacarlson has joined
 802 2012-02-29 20:08:21 barmstrong has joined
 803 2012-02-29 20:11:48 BlueMatt-mobile has joined
 804 2012-02-29 20:12:11 <BlueMatt-mobile> Meh, dont bother then, ill just build whe  i get back
 805 2012-02-29 20:28:22 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt-mobile: build finished
 806 2012-02-29 20:31:25 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt-mobile: how do I get the final gitian-built hash?
 807 2012-02-29 20:33:00 BlueMatt-mobile has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 808 2012-02-29 20:35:51 copumpkin is now known as mircea_pupesco
 809 2012-02-29 20:36:14 mircea_pupesco is now known as copumpkin
 810 2012-02-29 20:36:15 lyspooner has joined
 811 2012-02-29 20:36:18 <Diablo-D3> woah
 812 2012-02-29 20:36:30 <Diablo-D3> soemone sent me a nearly 4 btc donation
 813 2012-02-29 20:36:50 BlueMatt has joined
 814 2012-02-29 20:37:35 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: there is no such thing, just do the gsign stuff and put it in the gitian.sigs repo
 815 2012-02-29 20:37:43 <BlueMatt> (it just finds hashes for individual files)
 816 2012-02-29 20:40:13 user_ has joined
 817 2012-02-29 20:42:49 superjames has joined
 818 2012-02-29 20:44:18 <superjames> hey, is there a way to get the time of the last received block via json api? or other means
 819 2012-02-29 20:45:10 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 820 2012-02-29 20:45:28 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: ... but don't I remember pasting a shasum for... the gitian-sigs.zip file?  ... to compare different people's builds?
 821 2012-02-29 20:46:35 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: if the output is one single file, sure you can do that
 822 2012-02-29 20:46:44 <BlueMatt> but for win32/linux actual bitcoin builds they are many files
 823 2012-02-29 20:46:48 darkskiez2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 824 2012-02-29 20:47:33 darkskiez has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 825 2012-02-29 20:48:33 Lexa has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 826 2012-02-29 20:55:03 RazielZ has joined
 827 2012-02-29 20:58:38 darkskiez has joined
 828 2012-02-29 20:59:35 darsk1ez has joined
 829 2012-02-29 21:01:51 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: my win32 sigs: https://github.com/bitcoin/gitian.sigs/tree/master/0.6.0rc2-win32/bluematt
 830 2012-02-29 21:04:17 graingert has joined
 831 2012-02-29 21:05:03 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 832 2012-02-29 21:06:01 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: I built the linux release twice, got the same results.  Tagged v0.6.0rc2.  And pushed gitian.sigs/0.6rc2/gavinandresen@gmail.com
 833 2012-02-29 21:06:11 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: building win32 now
 834 2012-02-29 21:06:48 MobiusL has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 835 2012-02-29 21:07:17 sacarlson has joined
 836 2012-02-29 21:07:29 DaQatz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 837 2012-02-29 21:07:59 DaQatz has joined
 838 2012-02-29 21:08:15 Cablesaurus has joined
 839 2012-02-29 21:08:15 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
 840 2012-02-29 21:08:15 Cablesaurus has joined
 841 2012-02-29 21:08:49 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: check that directory matches tag (missing .0) and that signer matches user in contrib/gitian-downloader/win32-download-config (without @gmail.com)
 842 2012-02-29 21:08:54 bitcoinbulletin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 843 2012-02-29 21:09:02 <BlueMatt> the first one isnt a big deal
 844 2012-02-29 21:09:14 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: I'm missing bitcoin-deps-0.0.3.zip
 845 2012-02-29 21:09:29 <BlueMatt> but the second one would break gitian-downloader (when someone (ok, probably me) eventually gets around to writing win32 auto-update using gitian)
 846 2012-02-29 21:09:55 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: build contrib/gitian-descriptors/deps-win32.tml and copy build/out/* to inputs (in gitian-builder dir)
 847 2012-02-29 21:10:01 <BlueMatt> s/tml/yml/
 848 2012-02-29 21:10:27 <BlueMatt> did I forget to add that to release-process?
 849 2012-02-29 21:10:33 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: ok.  release-process.txt needs updating, it says cp build/out/bitcoin-deps-0.0.1.tbz2 inputs/
 850 2012-02-29 21:10:46 <BlueMatt> yep, ok will do
 851 2012-02-29 21:11:54 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: ... and libpng-1.5.9.tar.gz ....
 852 2012-02-29 21:12:13 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: (never mind, that's ok in release-process.txt)
 853 2012-02-29 21:13:17 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen:
 854 2012-02-29 21:13:18 <BlueMatt> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/912
 855 2012-02-29 21:13:26 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: thanks
 856 2012-02-29 21:15:12 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: TheBlueMatt opened pull request 912 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/912>
 857 2012-02-29 21:20:18 bitcoinbulletin has joined
 858 2012-02-29 21:22:24 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 859 2012-02-29 21:22:26 int0x27h has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 860 2012-02-29 21:23:15 zeiris has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 861 2012-02-29 21:24:04 zeiris has joined
 862 2012-02-29 21:24:27 int0x27h has joined
 863 2012-02-29 21:26:57 graingert has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 864 2012-02-29 21:30:33 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gavinandresen opened issue 913 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/913>
 865 2012-02-29 21:32:30 Joric has quit ()
 866 2012-02-29 21:33:03 graingert has joined
 867 2012-02-29 21:35:22 <sipa> BlueMatt: re: HDW in code, not sure yet
 868 2012-02-29 21:35:41 <BlueMatt> heh, ok
 869 2012-02-29 21:36:00 <sipa> BlueMatt: did you see my update to detwallet maybe?
 870 2012-02-29 21:36:20 <BlueMatt> I saw a list of commits, one of who's commitmsg's mentioned HDW, I havent had time to actually look yet
 871 2012-02-29 21:36:31 swulf-- has joined
 872 2012-02-29 21:36:38 * BlueMatt watches everything you do, like the creeper he is...
 873 2012-02-29 21:36:50 <jercos> SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
 874 2012-02-29 21:36:52 <jercos> *boom*
 875 2012-02-29 21:37:04 <sipa> BlueMatt: just implemented the key derivation + unit tests for it
 876 2012-02-29 21:37:16 <BlueMatt> fuck, now I have to walk all the way back out there, damn I hope my stuff is still there
 877 2012-02-29 21:37:24 <BlueMatt> sipa: nice
 878 2012-02-29 21:37:31 swulf--1 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 879 2012-02-29 21:39:04 <sipa> i read something about a determinism check; do i need to run a gitian build?
 880 2012-02-29 21:39:14 <BlueMatt> gavin tagged 0.6rc2
 881 2012-02-29 21:39:20 <BlueMatt> so its always nice to get more sigs ;)
 882 2012-02-29 21:39:23 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: I just pushed gitian.sigs/0.6.0rc2-win32/gavinandresen/
 883 2012-02-29 21:40:45 <sipa> no need to rebuild win32-deps, boost or qt?
 884 2012-02-29 21:40:50 <BlueMatt> no
 885 2012-02-29 21:41:10 MobiusL has joined
 886 2012-02-29 21:42:31 <sipa> building
 887 2012-02-29 21:45:33 barmstrong has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 888 2012-02-29 21:45:44 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: uh, oops the fact that you called gsign with 0.6rc2 for linux and I called gsign with 0.6.0rc2 for win32 (without the -win32) means they dont match...so gsign must be run again (you dont have to build again as long as you havent built anything in between...)
 889 2012-02-29 21:45:53 <BlueMatt> so in other words, uh...oops
 890 2012-02-29 21:47:09 <gavinandresen> Ok, I saved the linux build directory before building windows, I'll re-sign
 891 2012-02-29 21:47:22 barmstrong has joined
 892 2012-02-29 21:49:19 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: re-signed and pushed
 893 2012-02-29 21:50:14 <sipa> thanks for putting a '-' between those two syllables
 894 2012-02-29 21:50:37 pusle has quit ()
 895 2012-02-29 21:51:08 swulf--1 has joined
 896 2012-02-29 21:51:21 <sipa> dd626ee01ba9574729d521c7d4f6fae5f97f5d2ad09a13afb6f976b94f40c725
 897 2012-02-29 21:51:26 <sipa> dd626ee01ba9574729d521c7d4f6fae5f97f5d2ad09a13afb6f976b94f40c725  bitcoin-qt.exe
 898 2012-02-29 21:53:36 swulf-- has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 899 2012-02-29 21:54:17 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: hang on, I think I screwed up the windows build somehow....
 900 2012-02-29 21:55:52 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: you also have to save var/base-lucid-*.manifest
 901 2012-02-29 21:56:02 <BlueMatt> (but that doesnt matter much, since gitian wont complain if you dont)
 902 2012-02-29 21:56:46 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: no, screwed up much more fundamentally:  built the deps, but then signed them as if they were the complete windows build....
 903 2012-02-29 21:56:54 <BlueMatt> oh...
 904 2012-02-29 21:57:17 <gavinandresen> (trying to parallel process, lost my place in what I was building....)
 905 2012-02-29 21:57:30 swulf--1 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 906 2012-02-29 21:57:47 <sipa> my win32 build matches BlueMatt's
 907 2012-02-29 21:58:57 <sipa> is there any way for forcing bitcoin-qt to not start up minimized?
 908 2012-02-29 21:59:22 <sipa> (at least, that's what i assumed happened, since i see no window, but it's running fine)
 909 2012-02-29 21:59:28 <gavinandresen> sipa: that's an option if I remember
 910 2012-02-29 21:59:36 <BlueMatt> sipa: mind pushing to the gitian.sigs repo?
 911 2012-02-29 21:59:50 <sipa> BlueMatt: yes, as soon as the linux build is done
 912 2012-02-29 21:59:55 graingert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 913 2012-02-29 22:00:01 graingert has joined
 914 2012-02-29 22:00:30 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: our linux builds match
 915 2012-02-29 22:00:45 <gavinandresen> nifty keen
 916 2012-02-29 22:02:09 <luke-jr> does rc2 have the dupe txn fix?
 917 2012-02-29 22:02:15 <BlueMatt> no
 918 2012-02-29 22:05:02 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 919 2012-02-29 22:06:33 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 920 2012-02-29 22:06:37 barmstrong has joined
 921 2012-02-29 22:07:25 sacarlson has joined
 922 2012-02-29 22:08:38 Ahimoth has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 923 2012-02-29 22:11:27 * sipa wished that apt-get could do parallel installs
 924 2012-02-29 22:11:54 <sipa> the "Installing additional packages" takes much longer than "Running build script"
 925 2012-02-29 22:12:01 TD has joined
 926 2012-02-29 22:12:14 Ahimoth has joined
 927 2012-02-29 22:12:15 danbri has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 928 2012-02-29 22:12:24 danbri has joined
 929 2012-02-29 22:12:25 * BlueMatt did some gitian make-base-vm modifications so that he only has to do that step once
 930 2012-02-29 22:12:40 * sipa is lazier than BlueMatt
 931 2012-02-29 22:12:42 <BlueMatt> (or you could use the -i option to gbuild)
 932 2012-02-29 22:14:05 <gavinandresen> I got: 059149dfa0d7f706ceb8fc12d528b9b27d004cff991e204043a6fb0b0b48ddee  bitcoin-qt.exe
 933 2012-02-29 22:14:36 <BlueMatt> can you upload the sigs anyway so we can compare inputs?
 934 2012-02-29 22:15:52 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: done
 935 2012-02-29 22:16:42 Eliel has quit (Quit: migrating.)
 936 2012-02-29 22:18:37 <sipa> BlueMatt: matches; pushed
 937 2012-02-29 22:18:39 <BlueMatt> a. oops I build master instead of 0.6.0rc2 because release-process is 7aa...
 938 2012-02-29 22:18:51 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: we have different qt-win32 and bitcoin-deps
 939 2012-02-29 22:19:07 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: bitcoin-deps I dont understand, can you upload yours, qt-win32 you should grab from skypaint.com/bitcoin
 940 2012-02-29 22:21:07 <gavinandresen> bitcoin-deps-0.0.3.zip uploaded to skypaint.com/bitcoin
 941 2012-02-29 22:21:09 <BlueMatt> sipa: thanks, Ill get mine to match in a sec
 942 2012-02-29 22:21:13 swulf-- has joined
 943 2012-02-29 22:23:00 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: argggg...only the zips differ not the files...wtf???
 944 2012-02-29 22:23:44 <gavinandresen> different version of zip?
 945 2012-02-29 22:23:51 <gavinandresen> gremlins?
 946 2012-02-29 22:23:55 <gavinandresen> cosmic rays?
 947 2012-02-29 22:23:57 <sipa> phase of the moon?
 948 2012-02-29 22:24:03 * BlueMatt bets on gremlins
 949 2012-02-29 22:24:08 <gavinandresen> Ah, I know, it's leap day.
 950 2012-02-29 22:24:13 <BlueMatt> oh, that must be it
 951 2012-02-29 22:24:57 <sipa> gavinandresen: you built the dependencies right now?
 952 2012-02-29 22:25:25 <gavinandresen> bitcoin-deps-0.0.3 yes.
 953 2012-02-29 22:25:32 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: you dont happen to have a zip*.deb in any of your var/*.manifest files in gitiab-builder do you?
 954 2012-02-29 22:26:55 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: http://pastebin.com/WmpzgeE3
 955 2012-02-29 22:27:24 <BlueMatt> hmm, sadly not, want to run the deps-win32 build again?
 956 2012-02-29 22:27:33 <BlueMatt> also, what -j and -m flags did you build deps-win32 with?
 957 2012-02-29 22:27:48 <gavinandresen> I followed release-process.txt....
 958 2012-02-29 22:28:04 <sipa> I used -j5 -m2000, and had the same result as BlueMatt
 959 2012-02-29 22:28:15 <sipa> at least after he fixed the sorting order input to zip
 960 2012-02-29 22:28:15 * BlueMatt usually uses -j4 -m4096
 961 2012-02-29 22:28:29 <BlueMatt> but in theory that shouldnt matter
 962 2012-02-29 22:28:38 <BlueMatt> also, it appears the diffs between me and gavin are (again) soring order...
 963 2012-02-29 22:29:09 <BlueMatt> at least in qrencode
 964 2012-02-29 22:29:44 <BlueMatt> how can sort produce different results???
 965 2012-02-29 22:30:19 <sipa> sort is deterministic
 966 2012-02-29 22:30:36 <BlueMatt> one would hope so
 967 2012-02-29 22:30:58 <BlueMatt> so I guess zip doesnt always add in cli order
 968 2012-02-29 22:32:22 <gavinandresen> Rebuilding windows with qt-win32 from skypaint....
 969 2012-02-29 22:32:51 <BlueMatt> should result in the same output exe, but gitian wont accept it because it has different inputs...
 970 2012-02-29 22:32:57 <BlueMatt> mind rerunning the deps one?
 971 2012-02-29 22:34:08 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 972 2012-02-29 22:34:29 <BlueMatt> sipa: your gsign is 0.6.0rc2-win2 instead of win32
 973 2012-02-29 22:34:37 <sipa> dang
 974 2012-02-29 22:34:41 <BlueMatt> (just sign again if you havent run a build in between)
 975 2012-02-29 22:35:01 <sipa> i did
 976 2012-02-29 22:35:18 barmstrong has joined
 977 2012-02-29 22:37:05 <gavinandresen> I wonder how long it will take the alterna-chains to apply the 0.6 DoS fixes....
 978 2012-02-29 22:37:38 <doublec> gavinandresen: the alt chains I've looked at don't have the DoS code
 979 2012-02-29 22:39:09 dr_win has joined
 980 2012-02-29 22:40:01 <BlueMatt> ouch
 981 2012-02-29 22:40:28 gp5st has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 982 2012-02-29 22:41:42 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 983 2012-02-29 22:44:11 tower has quit (Disconnected by services)
 984 2012-02-29 22:44:28 tower has joined
 985 2012-02-29 22:49:46 <gavinandresen> dd626ee01ba9574729d521c7d4f6fae5f97f5d2ad09a13afb6f976b94f40c725  bitcoin-qt.exe
 986 2012-02-29 22:49:54 <gavinandresen> yay!
 987 2012-02-29 22:50:58 <sipa> BlueMatt: updated
 988 2012-02-29 22:50:58 <sipa> and matches again
 989 2012-02-29 22:51:01 <sipa> gavinandresen: what changed this time?
 990 2012-02-29 22:51:24 <gavinandresen> downloaded qt-win32-blah from skypaint
 991 2012-02-29 22:51:48 <gavinandresen> gotta run, back in an hour or three
 992 2012-02-29 22:52:26 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 993 2012-02-29 22:53:17 <BlueMatt> sipa: uh, I get an OK for gavin's build, but MISMATCH for yours
 994 2012-02-29 22:53:39 JRWR has joined
 995 2012-02-29 22:53:46 <sipa> uh-oh
 996 2012-02-29 22:53:46 <sipa> diff?
 997 2012-02-29 22:53:59 <BlueMatt> no, still the win2 vs win32 thing
 998 2012-02-29 22:54:16 <BlueMatt> did gavin overwrite your push?
 999 2012-02-29 22:55:00 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: nevermind, though our inputs are different, gitian actually doesnt care about inputs on the verification
1000 2012-02-29 22:55:18 <BlueMatt> bugs me that the zips are diff, but if gitian doesnt care, neither do i
1001 2012-02-29 22:59:17 lady_awk has joined
1002 2012-02-29 22:59:38 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1003 2012-02-29 22:59:56 <sipa> BlueMatt: better now?
1004 2012-02-29 23:00:01 <sipa> i don't really understand what happened
1005 2012-02-29 23:00:13 <sipa> but my internet connection is quite flaky, maybe my push failed or timed out
1006 2012-02-29 23:00:14 lady_awk has quit (Client Quit)
1007 2012-02-29 23:01:36 <BlueMatt> sipa: looks good now
1008 2012-02-29 23:01:37 <BlueMatt> thanks
1009 2012-02-29 23:01:48 <BlueMatt> all sigs match
1010 2012-02-29 23:02:16 <sipa> who can push them to sf?
1011 2012-02-29 23:02:23 Eliel has joined
1012 2012-02-29 23:02:30 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: jgarzik
1013 2012-02-29 23:02:40 <BlueMatt> maybe others
1014 2012-02-29 23:02:55 pentarh has joined
1015 2012-02-29 23:04:12 <pentarh> block chain in 3d :) Block tree in DIANNA :) http://dianna-project.org/wiki/DIANNA_Block_Chain
1016 2012-02-29 23:09:14 <BlueMatt> dont you mean 2-d (instead of the bitcoin 1-d)
1017 2012-02-29 23:10:17 <pentarh> well, yeah )
1018 2012-02-29 23:10:38 <BlueMatt> :)
1019 2012-02-29 23:10:54 <pentarh> but 3D is fashionable )
1020 2012-02-29 23:11:04 <BlueMatt> good point, in that case, make it HD
1021 2012-02-29 23:11:42 * sipa patents HD Enterprise Cloud Wallets
1022 2012-02-29 23:12:52 <pentarh> dianna will make some things to be hd )
1023 2012-02-29 23:13:19 <pentarh> i2p surfing for example
1024 2012-02-29 23:15:41 Snapman has joined
1025 2012-02-29 23:20:43 Snapman has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
1026 2012-02-29 23:21:07 JRWR has quit (Disconnected by services)
1027 2012-02-29 23:21:18 JRWR has joined
1028 2012-02-29 23:21:22 pingdrive has joined
1029 2012-02-29 23:24:11 Snapman has joined
1030 2012-02-29 23:24:29 Snapman has quit (Changing host)
1031 2012-02-29 23:24:30 Snapman has joined
1032 2012-02-29 23:36:07 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
1033 2012-02-29 23:42:17 pingdrive has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1034 2012-02-29 23:49:43 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1035 2012-02-29 23:54:44 Z0rZ0rZ0r1 has joined
1036 2012-02-29 23:56:58 Z0rZ0rZ0r has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1037 2012-02-29 23:57:11 minimoose has joined