1 2012-03-01 00:01:47 JRWR has quit (Quit: BTC Welcome: 19QtYzmENUmqRhvjEvHsz785rqZ5RRcZG4)
   2 2012-03-01 00:04:16 theorb has joined
   3 2012-03-01 00:04:53 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
   4 2012-03-01 00:05:03 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
   5 2012-03-01 00:05:08 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
   6 2012-03-01 00:06:56 sacarlson has joined
   7 2012-03-01 00:11:33 erle- has joined
   8 2012-03-01 00:17:39 ThomasV has joined
   9 2012-03-01 00:17:44 niggahol1that has quit (Quit: asdasdasdasd)
  10 2012-03-01 00:17:45 ThomasV has quit (Changing host)
  11 2012-03-01 00:17:45 ThomasV has joined
  12 2012-03-01 00:20:15 copumpkin has joined
  13 2012-03-01 00:21:44 da2ce7 has joined
  14 2012-03-01 00:25:11 graingert has left ()
  15 2012-03-01 00:25:20 att has joined
  16 2012-03-01 00:25:55 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
  17 2012-03-01 00:26:40 erle- has quit (Quit: erle-)
  18 2012-03-01 00:27:23 occulta has joined
  19 2012-03-01 00:29:36 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  20 2012-03-01 00:30:30 occulta has quit (Client Quit)
  21 2012-03-01 00:31:11 occulta has joined
  22 2012-03-01 00:31:21 <occulta> well that was rude..
  23 2012-03-01 00:31:33 <sipa> gmaxwell: concerning hierarchical wallets... i was wondering how much sense it makes to tie the internal chains to external ones
  24 2012-03-01 00:32:04 occulta has quit (Client Quit)
  25 2012-03-01 00:32:06 <sipa> gmaxwell: maybe /[internal or external]/[chain number]/[key number] is better as derivation
  26 2012-03-01 00:32:37 <sipa> typically one would always use /internal/0/N for change, but that 0 can be configured to be something else
  27 2012-03-01 00:32:49 <gmaxwell> So long as it's reasonable easy to find all of the ones in use starting from only knowing the master chain I don't know that it matters.
  28 2012-03-01 00:32:52 <sipa> if you want nodes independently capable of spending funds
  29 2012-03-01 00:33:23 <gmaxwell> (there are schemes possible which don't tie them which make finding them hard/impossible)
  30 2012-03-01 00:33:51 <sipa> the problem with the former scheme (/[chain number]/[internal or external]/[key number]) is that it's not very useful to give someone the /[chain number]/ key
  31 2012-03-01 00:34:03 <gavinandresen> RE: uploading to sourceforge: I'm compiling the Mac release now, will start uploading rc2 binaries
  32 2012-03-01 00:34:35 <sipa> they can see all incoming payments to that account, but any spends done from the master will most likely be not meaningful, as they combine inputs from severals chains
  33 2012-03-01 00:36:14 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: nice, what is the p2sh switch time coded in rc2?
  34 2012-03-01 00:36:15 <BlueMatt> is it never?
  35 2012-03-01 00:36:37 <sipa> gmaxwell: you see what i mean?
  36 2012-03-01 00:36:52 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: April 1
  37 2012-03-01 00:37:05 <BlueMatt> oh, ok
  38 2012-03-01 00:37:11 <BlueMatt> what was the one in rc1?
  39 2012-03-01 00:37:18 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: Feb15 I think?
  40 2012-03-01 00:37:32 <BlueMatt> mmm
  41 2012-03-01 00:37:54 <gmaxwell> sipa: Yes. But I'm too tired at the moment to think of anything useful to say about that.
  42 2012-03-01 00:38:32 iocor has joined
  43 2012-03-01 00:39:15 <da2ce7> good morning, sipa, gavinandresen, BlueMatt, gmaxwell :)
  44 2012-03-01 00:39:17 pentarh has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  45 2012-03-01 00:39:31 <BlueMatt> hi da2ce7
  46 2012-03-01 00:39:39 <BlueMatt> also, morning? its 7:30
  47 2012-03-01 00:39:49 <sipa> morning? it's 1:40am here!
  48 2012-03-01 00:40:00 <da2ce7> 11:39 here...
  49 2012-03-01 00:40:03 <BlueMatt> da2ce7: in asia?
  50 2012-03-01 00:40:14 <sipa> australia
  51 2012-03-01 00:40:16 <da2ce7> yep  Aus
  52 2012-03-01 00:40:26 <BlueMatt> ah
  53 2012-03-01 00:41:34 occulta has joined
  54 2012-03-01 00:41:42 <da2ce7> I think that we should make an alert and release a bitcoin client that fixes this bug asap... I also think that it is worth the extra code to 'unlile' the blocks, before it becomes mandotory; set a changeover time.
  55 2012-03-01 00:42:06 khalahan has quit (Quit: Bye)
  56 2012-03-01 00:42:25 [\\\\\\\\] is now known as Someguy123[afk]
  57 2012-03-01 00:42:25 <da2ce7> as it minimises the risk of a hard fork.
  58 2012-03-01 00:42:34 <BlueMatt> we have to get miner support first
  59 2012-03-01 00:42:43 <BlueMatt> also, when we release, we have to do it with a new version
  60 2012-03-01 00:42:53 Tycale has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  61 2012-03-01 00:43:10 * BlueMatt thinks that is a good argument for releasing 0.6 with the new block rules (after we have confirmation that p2sh will have >50% on april 1)
  62 2012-03-01 00:43:33 <da2ce7> BlueMatt, just a hard fork?
  63 2012-03-01 00:43:37 khalahan has joined
  64 2012-03-01 00:43:45 <BlueMatt> who said anything about a hard fork?
  65 2012-03-01 00:43:50 <da2ce7> if sombody puts a block that breaks the rules.
  66 2012-03-01 00:43:55 <BlueMatt> if we have miner support for this, we wont have a hard fork
  67 2012-03-01 00:44:10 <da2ce7> but you need >> 50%
  68 2012-03-01 00:44:18 nathan7 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  69 2012-03-01 00:44:32 <BlueMatt> yea, but its a minor change, so (it is hoped) that that shouldnt be hard
  70 2012-03-01 00:44:33 darkee has quit (!~darkee@gateway/tor-sasl/darkee|Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  71 2012-03-01 00:44:57 nathan7 has joined
  72 2012-03-01 00:45:12 gfinn has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  73 2012-03-01 00:46:30 pierre` has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  74 2012-03-01 00:47:09 <sipa> i hope most pool operators will agree quickly to patch
  75 2012-03-01 00:47:09 pierre` has joined
  76 2012-03-01 00:47:40 <sipa> if there is 70% miner support, a 6-block long fork has less than 1/1000 chance
  77 2012-03-01 00:48:41 Tycale has joined
  78 2012-03-01 00:49:18 <da2ce7> sipa: do we have standard code for 'unperfer blocks that break the rule, then after x number of blocks, enforce rule'
  79 2012-03-01 00:49:25 UukGoblin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  80 2012-03-01 00:50:06 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: the code to do that is complicated and carries its own risk.
  81 2012-03-01 00:50:50 <da2ce7> oh.  so we don't have well tested generic code from the testnet :(
  82 2012-03-01 00:50:53 <gmaxwell> this fix only has a forking risk _IF_ an attack is carried out. It makes the consequences somewhat worse— should one happen and the fix be only partially deployed, but we're already in trouble of the attack happens.
  83 2012-03-01 00:51:12 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: as if it would _actually_ be well tested?
  84 2012-03-01 00:51:21 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  85 2012-03-01 00:51:36 RichardG has quit (Quit: QUIIIIIIIIIIIIIT)
  86 2012-03-01 00:51:41 <da2ce7> hmm... do a whole heap of test runs... with people trying to subvert it.
  87 2012-03-01 00:52:07 <gmaxwell> So, you'll be funding this team of dedicated testers then? :)
  88 2012-03-01 00:52:34 <gmaxwell> It's easy to wave your hands, harder to actually do it.
  89 2012-03-01 00:54:26 <da2ce7> :(  I know; everyone is busy with there own projects.
  90 2012-03-01 00:55:03 Someguy123[afk] has quit (Excess Flood)
  91 2012-03-01 00:55:10 * da2ce7 offers 10btc to somebody who make the generic 'unperfer blocks that break the rule, then after x number of blocks, enforce rule' code, with unit tests.
  92 2012-03-01 00:55:22 darkee has joined
  93 2012-03-01 00:55:29 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: well the code exists. Its a bit scarry though.
  94 2012-03-01 00:55:48 <gmaxwell> Gavin created it a while ago. Presumably we'll sometime have it as a generic mechenism.
  95 2012-03-01 00:56:09 <da2ce7> kk
  96 2012-03-01 00:56:19 <gmaxwell> Luke was generally unhappy with the behavior though, because you're likely to get orphaned if you mine while using it unless everyone also uses it.
  97 2012-03-01 00:56:33 <gmaxwell> so basically it just replaces the problem with a meta problem of the same kind. :(
  98 2012-03-01 00:56:35 RichardG has joined
  99 2012-03-01 00:57:53 Someguy1234 has joined
 100 2012-03-01 00:58:00 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 101 2012-03-01 01:00:08 Someguy1234 is now known as [\\\\\\]
 102 2012-03-01 01:00:11 <da2ce7> maybe put 10btc into the gavinandresen is great fund.
 103 2012-03-01 01:00:47 UukGoblin has joined
 104 2012-03-01 01:00:49 <BlueMatt> 10 btc is going to motivate gain to do what?
 105 2012-03-01 01:00:57 <BlueMatt> thats what, 50 usd?
 106 2012-03-01 01:01:12 <BlueMatt> and what do you think his time is actually worth? 50 usd will buy barely any time at all
 107 2012-03-01 01:01:32 <BlueMatt> realistically, bounties in oss will never have enough money in them to make it comparable to working
 108 2012-03-01 01:01:42 <BlueMatt> and at that point, you are just hiring programmers
 109 2012-03-01 01:01:55 sacarlson has joined
 110 2012-03-01 01:04:04 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: yea, thats the problem.. little amounts of money aren't very helpful— to do something you need to to have income to replace someone's dayjob for long enough spans to make it worth doing. :(
 111 2012-03-01 01:04:24 <da2ce7> BlueMatt, it isn't 'to pay for time' rarther a nice way to say 'we care about ya'
 112 2012-03-01 01:04:32 <BlueMatt> yea, not that I dont think its cool to pay oss devs, but seriously
 113 2012-03-01 01:05:02 <BlueMatt> da2ce7: yea, but the easiest way to say we care about what you are doing is to help out, not give money ;)
 114 2012-03-01 01:05:28 <da2ce7> sure, but some people are too busy;
 115 2012-03-01 01:05:45 <BlueMatt>  /nod
 116 2012-03-01 01:05:51 <Staatsfeind> s/busy/ignorant/
 117 2012-03-01 01:05:54 <BlueMatt> anyway, Ill be back later
 118 2012-03-01 01:06:20 gfinn has joined
 119 2012-03-01 01:06:29 <da2ce7> well if people think that it is rude... then I won't offer... just tryin to be a lil supportive.
 120 2012-03-01 01:08:00 Zarutian has joined
 121 2012-03-01 01:08:30 Zarutian has quit (Client Quit)
 122 2012-03-01 01:08:33 <etotheipi_> da2ce7, you can always donate to *my* crowdfunding campaign:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=64449;all
 123 2012-03-01 01:08:45 Zarutian has joined
 124 2012-03-01 01:08:45 <etotheipi_> ya know... if you feel like supporting OSS developers ;)
 125 2012-03-01 01:09:01 <etotheipi_> you get rewards, and I will go part time at my real job to work on Armory more :)
 126 2012-03-01 01:09:25 <etotheipi_> plus guarantee that Armory stays open-source
 127 2012-03-01 01:09:26 <da2ce7> :)
 128 2012-03-01 01:09:50 <etotheipi_> it's worth donating $10 just to get my encryption seminar:  "Understanding Cryptography:  Using Boring Math for Something Useful"
 129 2012-03-01 01:10:00 <da2ce7> yep... I wanna copy of that.
 130 2012-03-01 01:10:09 <da2ce7> can you pm me a bitcoin address.
 131 2012-03-01 01:10:09 <etotheipi_> I've heard $10 is a good deal :)
 132 2012-03-01 01:10:28 <etotheipi_> it's on that link
 133 2012-03-01 01:10:45 <etotheipi_> although, as I look at that thread, I realize that the top post has gotten *really* long
 134 2012-03-01 01:10:54 <da2ce7> sure but I'm using an online wallet, so I cannot sign a message from the key it is comeing from.
 135 2012-03-01 01:11:16 <etotheipi_> oh, don't worry about signing
 136 2012-03-01 01:11:27 paraipan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 137 2012-03-01 01:11:41 <etotheipi_> that was only if there was going to be confusion about who donated...
 138 2012-03-01 01:11:44 btc_novice has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 139 2012-03-01 01:12:15 paraipan has joined
 140 2012-03-01 01:13:06 <etotheipi_> to anyone else here:  not only is the encryption seminar available for $10, but I have a very-heavy-math introduction to quantum computing
 141 2012-03-01 01:13:58 <etotheipi_> it's 85 slides, which I will similarly release for $10 (but I wouldn't do it unless you have a good math background)
 142 2012-03-01 01:14:11 <da2ce7> :)
 143 2012-03-01 01:14:13 <da2ce7> coool
 144 2012-03-01 01:14:39 * da2ce7 wishes he had time to learn quantum computing.
 145 2012-03-01 01:14:58 <da2ce7> etotheipi_: how about you do a booklet on lattice based encyption.
 146 2012-03-01 01:15:25 <etotheipi_> do you have a math background?  the QC slides are solid... at the very least you should be able to understand Grover's algorithm when you're done
 147 2012-03-01 01:15:34 <sipa> etotheipi_: hmm, tempting :)
 148 2012-03-01 01:15:46 maqr has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 149 2012-03-01 01:16:14 Joric has joined
 150 2012-03-01 01:16:17 <etotheipi_> take a pure-guessing problem where there are N possible answers, all equally likely, but only one of them is correct, the only way to find out is to guess
 151 2012-03-01 01:16:37 <etotheipi_> so on average it will take you N/2 guesses to find the right answer, O(N)
 152 2012-03-01 01:16:48 <sipa> sure :)
 153 2012-03-01 01:16:58 <gmaxwell> http://www.scottaaronson.com/thesis.html  < has a pretty good breif QC tutorial in it.
 154 2012-03-01 01:17:10 <etotheipi_> but if you can convert the guessing problem into a quantum circuit, then use qubits, you can get the answer in O(sqrt(N))
 155 2012-03-01 01:17:27 <sipa> etotheipi_: i know the result; i don't know how or why it works
 156 2012-03-01 01:18:26 <etotheipi_> sipa, not everyone may know it... and I think it's a very intriguing result to suck others into donating for the seminar :)
 157 2012-03-01 01:18:46 <gmaxwell> (well technically the 'quantum circuit' has to be a special oracle which has no waste so the cancellation works, which is actually a @#$@# pita, one of those messy things that get waved away because someone proved that you can convert anything into such an oracle with only a polynomial factor gate increase)
 158 2012-03-01 01:19:49 <etotheipi_> any classical circuit has an equivalent quantum circuit representation
 159 2012-03-01 01:20:31 <etotheipi_> and it turns out that any quantum circuit can be created from (possibly massive) numbers of just two circuits ("basis vectors" of quantum computing)
 160 2012-03-01 01:21:41 libcoin1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 161 2012-03-01 01:24:11 Joric_ has joined
 162 2012-03-01 01:24:20 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: er. No. It's not sufficient for it to _just_ be a quantum circuit. For grover to work it has to have a special form: The output must be exactly the input plus one bit (the match) and it must destroy no information in the process.
 163 2012-03-01 01:24:33 tcatm has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 164 2012-03-01 01:24:49 marf_away has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 165 2012-03-01 01:25:05 <gmaxwell> I don't know how you could have explained grover without actually making this point clear, because it's important for understanding the cancellation.
 166 2012-03-01 01:25:26 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, it's been 3 years since I studied this
 167 2012-03-01 01:25:26 paraipan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 168 2012-03-01 01:25:31 <gmaxwell> ah.
 169 2012-03-01 01:25:44 <etotheipi_> I'm actually re-reading the seminar now
 170 2012-03-01 01:26:15 paraipan has joined
 171 2012-03-01 01:26:31 <gmaxwell> In the case of functions like SHA256 where a normal implementation destroys a lot of information, the reversable form has exponential interior state growth... ends up being a ginormous circuit. I was never able to figure out if there is a way to prevent the exponential state growth.
 172 2012-03-01 01:27:22 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 173 2012-03-01 01:27:49 <gmaxwell> I suppose there must be because there is a proof that you can turn any circuit into such a form with only a polynomial increase in size but the proof wasn't the sort that was helpful (to me at least) in figuring out how.
 174 2012-03-01 01:28:16 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, it sounds like you studied Quantum computer much more than I did
 175 2012-03-01 01:28:20 Joric has joined
 176 2012-03-01 01:28:25 superjames has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 177 2012-03-01 01:28:30 <etotheipi_> I simply did a (very long) final project on it for my computational-complexity class
 178 2012-03-01 01:29:15 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 179 2012-03-01 01:29:26 <etotheipi_> spent most of the semester teaching myself on it to produce this presentation... but I never had a formal class on it
 180 2012-03-01 01:29:28 <gmaxwell> well, I sat down and wrote some programs for QCs just to understand it.
 181 2012-03-01 01:29:38 <etotheipi_> ahh, I should've done that...
 182 2012-03-01 01:29:42 Joric_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 183 2012-03-01 01:29:54 <etotheipi_> at least it's been proven that you can simulate a QC on a CC :)
 184 2012-03-01 01:30:03 barmstrong has joined
 185 2012-03-01 01:30:08 <gmaxwell> there is software to do so in fact!
 186 2012-03-01 01:31:46 superjames has joined
 187 2012-03-01 01:31:57 Joric has quit (Client Quit)
 188 2012-03-01 01:32:32 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
 189 2012-03-01 01:33:56 riush has quit (Quit: leaving)
 190 2012-03-01 01:42:24 <sipa> i believe there's a haskell package to do so :)
 191 2012-03-01 01:42:29 tcatm has joined
 192 2012-03-01 01:52:53 JRWR has joined
 193 2012-03-01 01:54:54 <gavinandresen> All righty, that Mac build was painful... but rc2 binaries are up at   https://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.6.0/test/?
 194 2012-03-01 01:55:24 diki has joined
 195 2012-03-01 01:55:32 <diki> lol, 3 fast blocks
 196 2012-03-01 01:55:57 <diki> 3 blocks in under 2 minutes
 197 2012-03-01 01:58:37 <sipa> gavinandresen: painful? how so?
 198 2012-03-01 01:58:59 <gavinandresen> macports python dependency hell.
 199 2012-03-01 01:59:08 <sipa> joy
 200 2012-03-01 01:59:20 <gavinandresen> mmm....  sigh.
 201 2012-03-01 02:00:01 <gavinandresen> My life would be easier if we stopped supporting 32-bit OSX 10.5 machines.
 202 2012-03-01 02:01:14 sacarlson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 203 2012-03-01 02:02:50 pingdrive has joined
 204 2012-03-01 02:09:18 SomeoneWeirdzzzz is now known as SomeoneWeird
 205 2012-03-01 02:10:10 maqr has joined
 206 2012-03-01 02:12:20 wasabi1 has joined
 207 2012-03-01 02:16:07 occulta has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
 208 2012-03-01 02:18:58 sacarlson has joined
 209 2012-03-01 02:21:04 jgarzik has quit (Quit: Client exiting)
 210 2012-03-01 02:23:27 pingdrive has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 211 2012-03-01 02:24:28 word_ is now known as word
 212 2012-03-01 02:24:35 word has quit (Changing host)
 213 2012-03-01 02:24:35 word has joined
 214 2012-03-01 02:26:18 user_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 215 2012-03-01 02:26:40 XMPPwock1 has joined
 216 2012-03-01 02:30:04 XMPPwocky has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
 217 2012-03-01 02:30:12 XMPPwock1 has quit (Client Quit)
 218 2012-03-01 02:30:32 XMPPwocky has joined
 219 2012-03-01 02:35:12 XMPPwocky has quit (Client Quit)
 220 2012-03-01 02:39:33 XMPPwocky has joined
 221 2012-03-01 02:43:28 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
 222 2012-03-01 02:45:32 Joric has joined
 223 2012-03-01 02:50:33 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
 224 2012-03-01 02:53:02 winterblack_ has joined
 225 2012-03-01 02:56:48 winterblack has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 226 2012-03-01 03:09:59 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 227 2012-03-01 03:11:35 rdponticelli has joined
 228 2012-03-01 03:12:39 Prayer has joined
 229 2012-03-01 03:13:39 Staatsfeind has quit (Quit: leaving)
 230 2012-03-01 03:21:02 Prayer has left ("Ex-Chat")
 231 2012-03-01 03:23:06 devrandom has quit (Quit: leaving)
 232 2012-03-01 03:24:16 Joric has quit ()
 233 2012-03-01 03:27:57 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 234 2012-03-01 03:38:55 splatster has joined
 235 2012-03-01 03:42:07 JRWR has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 236 2012-03-01 03:44:03 knotwork_ has joined
 237 2012-03-01 03:47:12 JRWR has joined
 238 2012-03-01 03:47:14 JRWR has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 239 2012-03-01 03:47:52 knotwork has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 240 2012-03-01 03:49:20 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 241 2012-03-01 03:59:54 TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)
 242 2012-03-01 04:00:18 [7] has joined
 243 2012-03-01 04:01:25 knotwork_ is now known as knotwork
 244 2012-03-01 04:02:32 barmstrong has joined
 245 2012-03-01 04:03:09  has quit (Clown|!Clown@static-87-79-93-140.netcologne.de|Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 246 2012-03-01 04:16:21 imsaguy is now known as vragnar0da
 247 2012-03-01 04:17:06 vragnar0da is now known as imsaguy
 248 2012-03-01 04:17:51 splatster is now known as vragnar0da
 249 2012-03-01 04:19:01 vragnar0da is now known as splatster
 250 2012-03-01 04:48:48 RobinPKR_ has joined
 251 2012-03-01 04:48:54 TDL__ has joined
 252 2012-03-01 04:51:21 RobinPKR has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 253 2012-03-01 04:51:21 RobinPKR_ is now known as RobinPKR
 254 2012-03-01 04:52:04  has joined
 255 2012-03-01 04:52:13 darkee has quit (!~darkee@gateway/tor-sasl/darkee|Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 256 2012-03-01 05:02:17 dr_win has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 257 2012-03-01 05:02:35 JRWR has joined
 258 2012-03-01 05:07:44 Z0rZ0rZ0r1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 259 2012-03-01 05:20:56 rdponticelli_ has joined
 260 2012-03-01 05:21:17 rdponticelli has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 261 2012-03-01 05:21:41 lyspooner has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 262 2012-03-01 05:26:56 jandd has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 263 2012-03-01 05:27:10 jandd has joined
 264 2012-03-01 05:35:16 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 265 2012-03-01 05:38:00 JRWR has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 266 2012-03-01 05:38:58 Ukyo is now known as Ukto
 267 2012-03-01 05:53:27 vigilyn has joined
 268 2012-03-01 06:00:07 twmz_ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
 269 2012-03-01 06:16:14 EPiSKiNG- has quit ()
 270 2012-03-01 06:39:13 ForceMajeure has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 271 2012-03-01 06:55:12 num1 has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
 272 2012-03-01 06:55:40 ThomasV has joined
 273 2012-03-01 07:04:41 bill_stickers has joined
 274 2012-03-01 07:05:07 tower has quit (Quit: | ReactOS - The FOSS alternative to MS Windows! | http://www.reactos.org/ | join #ReactOS |)
 275 2012-03-01 07:09:52 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 276 2012-03-01 07:31:07 Detritus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 277 2012-03-01 07:31:25 tower has joined
 278 2012-03-01 07:50:29 Detritus has joined
 279 2012-03-01 07:51:26 libcoin has joined
 280 2012-03-01 07:58:35 smickles has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 281 2012-03-01 08:11:55 copumpkin has joined
 282 2012-03-01 08:13:22 TD has joined
 283 2012-03-01 08:20:03 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
 284 2012-03-01 08:23:58 danbri has joined
 285 2012-03-01 08:27:25 OpenOcean has joined
 286 2012-03-01 08:29:29 dstien_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 287 2012-03-01 08:30:56 jrmithdobbs has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 288 2012-03-01 08:33:58 erle- has joined
 289 2012-03-01 08:35:31 jrmithdobbs has joined
 290 2012-03-01 08:38:46 danbri has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 291 2012-03-01 08:41:54 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 292 2012-03-01 08:42:20 danbri has joined
 293 2012-03-01 08:47:06 int0x27h has quit (Changing host)
 294 2012-03-01 08:47:06 int0x27h has joined
 295 2012-03-01 08:56:18 <topi`> my bitcoind produces huge amount of db logs (10 M per logfile, 300+ logs) ... how do I turn that db log off?
 296 2012-03-01 09:02:28 agricocb has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 297 2012-03-01 09:03:12 MrTiggr has joined
 298 2012-03-01 09:07:49 MrTiggr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 299 2012-03-01 09:08:58 slush has joined
 300 2012-03-01 09:26:32 clowninasack has joined
 301 2012-03-01 09:31:27 MobiusL has quit (Excess Flood)
 302 2012-03-01 09:33:01 MobiusL has joined
 303 2012-03-01 09:35:36 TDL__ is now known as darkee
 304 2012-03-01 09:44:22 <topi`> I suspect -printtoconsole does not affect those db logs
 305 2012-03-01 09:53:51 marf_away has joined
 306 2012-03-01 09:58:35 jercos has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 307 2012-03-01 09:58:52 parus has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 308 2012-03-01 10:02:23 MrTiggr has joined
 309 2012-03-01 10:06:22 MrTiggr has quit (Client Quit)
 310 2012-03-01 10:07:23 MrTiggr has joined
 311 2012-03-01 10:08:24 twmz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 312 2012-03-01 10:10:39 iocor has joined
 313 2012-03-01 10:26:11 rigasnackalope- has joined
 314 2012-03-01 10:35:18 RazielZ has joined
 315 2012-03-01 10:35:19 rigasnackalope- has quit ()
 316 2012-03-01 10:35:57 denisx has joined
 317 2012-03-01 10:36:43 Karmaon has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 318 2012-03-01 10:49:32 Karmaon has joined
 319 2012-03-01 10:53:33 gjs278 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 320 2012-03-01 10:53:41 gjs278 has joined
 321 2012-03-01 11:04:10 <Eliel> topi`: most of the logs get cleaned out if you restart bitcoind.
 322 2012-03-01 11:12:00 <topi`> Eliel: the problem is that I get too many writes to my flash filesystem
 323 2012-03-01 11:12:32 <topi`> e.g. flushing even a single line of text writes the whole block (0.5 MB or more)
 324 2012-03-01 11:20:35 agricocb has joined
 325 2012-03-01 11:21:46 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 326 2012-03-01 11:22:50 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 327 2012-03-01 11:23:44 rdponticelli has joined
 328 2012-03-01 11:24:49 rdponticelli_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 329 2012-03-01 11:29:18 <topi`> hmm, these database log files seem to be binary files
 330 2012-03-01 11:29:44 <Diablo-D3> guess what! they are!
 331 2012-03-01 11:30:07 <Diablo-D3> topi`: btw, what logs are you talking about?
 332 2012-03-01 11:30:14 <Diablo-D3> because I suspect you're talking about the database itself
 333 2012-03-01 11:30:42 <Diablo-D3> the files in ~/.bitcoin/database?
 334 2012-03-01 11:31:36 <Diablo-D3> those are part of the operation of BDB, they're not logs in the way you mean.
 335 2012-03-01 11:33:12 <topi`> aha
 336 2012-03-01 11:33:19 <topi`> damn berkeleydb
 337 2012-03-01 11:33:41 <topi`> I guess I should put the .bitcoin dir on a real hard disk.
 338 2012-03-01 11:33:45 <Diablo-D3> hey man, fail-safe data transactional integrity is nice
 339 2012-03-01 11:34:08 <Diablo-D3> most likely an incomplete write can be recovered if your box dies
 340 2012-03-01 11:37:44 iocor has joined
 341 2012-03-01 11:37:46 iocor has quit (Changing host)
 342 2012-03-01 11:37:46 iocor has joined
 343 2012-03-01 11:50:50 agricocb has joined
 344 2012-03-01 11:56:05 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 345 2012-03-01 11:56:25 molecular has joined
 346 2012-03-01 11:57:01 booo has joined
 347 2012-03-01 11:59:24 occulta has joined
 348 2012-03-01 12:00:20 [Tycho] has joined
 349 2012-03-01 12:02:11 [Tycho] has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 350 2012-03-01 12:02:51 ThomasV has joined
 351 2012-03-01 12:08:57 <phantomcircuit> topi`, mount the bitcoin directory as a tmpfs and then periodically copy your wallet to disk
 352 2012-03-01 12:09:06 <phantomcircuit> (using the rpc call)
 353 2012-03-01 12:29:38 sje has joined
 354 2012-03-01 12:36:21 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 355 2012-03-01 12:41:18 <lianj> if you have enough ram left, yes
 356 2012-03-01 12:43:25 sytse has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 357 2012-03-01 12:45:05 paraipan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 358 2012-03-01 12:45:50 paraipan has joined
 359 2012-03-01 12:46:03 sytse has joined
 360 2012-03-01 12:50:38 DaQatz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 361 2012-03-01 13:06:20 smickles has joined
 362 2012-03-01 13:10:11 <topi`> only 1 GB ram :/
 363 2012-03-01 13:12:48 <phantomcircuit> topi`, dont worry about it tmpfs will swap out
 364 2012-03-01 13:13:01 <phantomcircuit> you're effectively just disabling fsync calls
 365 2012-03-01 13:13:15 <phantomcircuit> so at worst you'll end up downloading the blocks again
 366 2012-03-01 13:13:17 <phantomcircuit> big deal
 367 2012-03-01 13:17:59 trantarigost has joined
 368 2012-03-01 13:19:15 agricocb has joined
 369 2012-03-01 13:21:22 paraipan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 370 2012-03-01 13:21:26 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 371 2012-03-01 13:22:23 paraipan has joined
 372 2012-03-01 13:24:36 Guest83611 has joined
 373 2012-03-01 13:25:26 Guest83611 has quit (Client Quit)
 374 2012-03-01 13:25:43 datagutt_ has joined
 375 2012-03-01 13:26:14 <topi`> but downloading takes *days* at worst
 376 2012-03-01 13:26:45 <topi`> somehow I thought only the blk0001.dat was important
 377 2012-03-01 13:27:09 <topi`> even the index to that file is huge. and an index could be rebuilt at every startup
 378 2012-03-01 13:33:23 TD has joined
 379 2012-03-01 13:36:07 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 380 2012-03-01 13:39:39 graingert has joined
 381 2012-03-01 13:40:14 <topi`> fuck, journal commit I/O error
 382 2012-03-01 13:42:54 AIEmpire has joined
 383 2012-03-01 13:42:57 <gmaxwell> topi`: the building the index is basically what make it take time.
 384 2012-03-01 13:44:34 <AIEmpire> Hello, not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I downloaded the new btc Mac client, the wallet is automatically encrypted, but I can't change the password, because I have no idea what the default password is.
 385 2012-03-01 13:45:03 <gmaxwell> The wallet is not automatically encrypted.
 386 2012-03-01 13:45:38 <gmaxwell> It is only encrypted if you ask it to be, an it gives you omnious warnings about not forgetting the password and makes you confirm in order to encrypt it.
 387 2012-03-01 13:45:58 topi` has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 388 2012-03-01 13:46:21 <AIEmpire> Well it is. Maybe it's a bug?
 389 2012-03-01 13:46:38 <AIEmpire> I literally just downloaded it, run it for the first time and didn't change any settings.
 390 2012-03-01 13:46:40 topi` has joined
 391 2012-03-01 13:47:16 <topi`> there it goes. funny how Ctrl-c'ing the bitcoind ends up in a massive spam of I/O errors. A reminder that one should not run from a USB stick.
 392 2012-03-01 13:48:16 <AIEmpire> Should I just delete the wallet.dat and restart the client?
 393 2012-03-01 13:49:30 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, sipa , how do you feel about something like this:  http://pastebin.com/wMzsddmE  (it's already implemented in Armory, but could be modified to be interoperable with the Satoshi client if it uses somethign different)
 394 2012-03-01 13:50:32 minimoose has joined
 395 2012-03-01 13:52:42 occulta has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
 396 2012-03-01 13:54:13 <gmaxwell> AIEmpire: move the wallet.dat to another location. If that fixes it for you, I'd like a copy of that wallet.dat
 397 2012-03-01 13:54:33 <phantomcircuit> topi`, try downloading with the database on a tmpfs you'll find it no longer takes days
 398 2012-03-01 13:54:34 <phantomcircuit> magic
 399 2012-03-01 13:54:35 <AIEmpire> Ok, I'll try it now
 400 2012-03-01 13:54:44 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: ...
 401 2012-03-01 13:55:08 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: Why don't you even bother looking at what the Satoshi client does?
 402 2012-03-01 13:56:01 Zarutian has joined
 403 2012-03-01 13:56:53 <gmaxwell> We use key recovery for the public key, so there is no reason for the signature to include it. Also your use of the "standard double-sha256-hashed" means that I can tell you to sign some junk which is effectively a transaction to spend all your coins, and you won't know any better and will do it?
 404 2012-03-01 13:58:09 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, I don't look because it's not released and I have never compiled it
 405 2012-03-01 13:58:31 <etotheipi_> plus, this only signs ASCII text... no binary
 406 2012-03-01 13:58:38 <gmaxwell> It _is_ released.
 407 2012-03-01 13:58:48 <gmaxwell> It's in 0.5.
 408 2012-03-01 13:58:58 <phantomcircuit> topi`, 47k
 409 2012-03-01 13:59:12 <etotheipi_> it is?
 410 2012-03-01 13:59:17 <etotheipi_> I thought it was being added 0.6
 411 2012-03-01 13:59:19 <gmaxwell> (the gui for it is some later addition, but the RPC has been there since 0.5)
 412 2012-03-01 13:59:29 <etotheipi_> oh, I've actually never used the Satoshi client RPC
 413 2012-03-01 13:59:47 <etotheipi_> or maybe once when I was helping you guys debug my invalid tx
 414 2012-03-01 13:59:58 <etotheipi_> err.. when you were helping me
 415 2012-03-01 14:00:17 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: so you'd fail if my name was Grég?
 416 2012-03-01 14:00:35 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, good question...
 417 2012-03-01 14:01:32 <phantomcircuit> topace, 86k
 418 2012-03-01 14:02:00 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, this is a first cut at implementing a message signing interface... if there are ways to improve it, I will
 419 2012-03-01 14:02:09 luke-jr_ has joined
 420 2012-03-01 14:02:17 luke-jr has quit (otg!~luke-jr@2001:470:5:265:222:4dff:fe50:4c49|Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
 421 2012-03-01 14:02:31 <etotheipi_> and with regards to the public key:  I said it in the pastebin:  I don't have it implemented yet, but the format supports it
 422 2012-03-01 14:02:48 luke-jr has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 423 2012-03-01 14:02:55 <etotheipi_> you can just add your extra byte to the sig and leave the public key off (it's just that,at the moment, Armory can't support it)
 424 2012-03-01 14:04:13 paraipan_ has joined
 425 2012-03-01 14:04:17 luke-jr has joined
 426 2012-03-01 14:04:25 paraipan has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
 427 2012-03-01 14:04:37 paraipan_ has quit (Client Quit)
 428 2012-03-01 14:05:09 <phantomcircuit> topi`, 113k
 429 2012-03-01 14:05:19 paraipan has joined
 430 2012-03-01 14:05:50 JRWR has joined
 431 2012-03-01 14:09:03 <AIEmpire> gmaxwell: Yes, that fixed it. Not sure why the first wallet.dat was encrypted by default, but here are the files (there was a wallet.dat.rewrite as well).
 432 2012-03-01 14:09:06 <AIEmpire> http://www.mediafire.com/?nqbklt8b5f8cp1h,nh1b898p518hibt
 433 2012-03-01 14:09:53 <etotheipi_> so gmaxwell, how can I find out what the Satoshi client does/creates?  What RPC commands do I use to sign a message?
 434 2012-03-01 14:10:02 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: signmessage
 435 2012-03-01 14:11:38 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: What bitcoin actually signs is H("Bitcoin Signed Message:\n"+message) to avoid that.
 436 2012-03-01 14:12:04 <gmaxwell> It takes an address and message and returns a base64 encoded signature with the extra key recovery bits.
 437 2012-03-01 14:12:15 <phantomcircuit> topi`, 125k
 438 2012-03-01 14:13:05 <etotheipi_> ahh, that's a good idea to force extra characters into the message.  It can be made transparent, too
 439 2012-03-01 14:13:33 <etotheipi_> I thought about your concern, and assumed that the lack of being able to use binary in the interface was good enough
 440 2012-03-01 14:13:50 imsaguy2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 441 2012-03-01 14:13:57 imsaguy2 has joined
 442 2012-03-01 14:14:28 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: er, unless I misunderstand you, I don't see why making it transparent is helpful. The prefix is there to basically to convert the hash function into a different hash function.
 443 2012-03-01 14:14:30 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, in general you dont want to be signing random shit people give you
 444 2012-03-01 14:14:54 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: in general, sure— but it sure shouldn't be possible to spend your coins that way.
 445 2012-03-01 14:14:55 <phantomcircuit> that should probably be a random prefix which then is passed as part of the signature... but whatever
 446 2012-03-01 14:15:19 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: That was discussed and bytecoin was strongly opposed to it.
 447 2012-03-01 14:15:34 <phantomcircuit> bytecoin?
 448 2012-03-01 14:15:40 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, you're right, it would convert it to a different hash function:  all I need to do is add *anything* to the message before signing it, and remove it after the verification
 449 2012-03-01 14:15:42 <gmaxwell> (because of some theoretical attack)
 450 2012-03-01 14:16:01 <phantomcircuit> strongly opposed to using random data as opposed to a fixed prefix?
 451 2012-03-01 14:16:02 <phantomcircuit> wat
 452 2012-03-01 14:16:46 <sipa> phantomcircuit: the signer decides the random data, not the verifier
 453 2012-03-01 14:16:52 <sipa> the verifier can't know it's random
 454 2012-03-01 14:17:10 <sipa> or the other way around, if it's part of the challenge
 455 2012-03-01 14:17:11 <phantomcircuit> sipa, yeah so?
 456 2012-03-01 14:17:23 <sipa> theoretical attacks are theoretical :)
 457 2012-03-01 14:17:23 <phantomcircuit> you both provide some random data
 458 2012-03-01 14:17:24 <gmaxwell> E.g. I could have chosen the random data to make the hash function collide.
 459 2012-03-01 14:17:54 <phantomcircuit> the standard is always that both parties provide random data when signing in challenge response
 460 2012-03-01 14:18:10 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: then you can do that in the message text.
 461 2012-03-01 14:18:26 <etotheipi_> it depends why we are signing:  if it's challenge-response, then the verifier is creating the nonce
 462 2012-03-01 14:18:58 <etotheipi_> but in the case of, say, sending someone your delivery address, or distributing the correct hash of your newly-released binaries, it's sufficient for the owner to create the msg themself
 463 2012-03-01 14:19:06 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, right but the signer should also be using random data
 464 2012-03-01 14:19:07 <phantomcircuit> but
 465 2012-03-01 14:19:09 <phantomcircuit> whatevah
 466 2012-03-01 14:19:36 <phantomcircuit> etotheipi_, i suggest you read a lot more about practical cryptography
 467 2012-03-01 14:20:14 <phantomcircuit> challenge response protocols in which both ends do not provide entropy are bad designs
 468 2012-03-01 14:20:22 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: in any case, the code for key recovery is reasonably small.
 469 2012-03-01 14:20:31 <etotheipi_> phantomcircuit, I agree
 470 2012-03-01 14:20:54 <etotheipi_> that's why I decided not to "support" challenge-response with my interface
 471 2012-03-01 14:21:41 <sipa> anyone an idea what Ben Reeves claims the proposed patch still allows blockchain corruption?
 472 2012-03-01 14:21:41 <etotheipi_> I am promoting it as a way to sign messages, say for sending money and then giving your delivery address
 473 2012-03-01 14:21:42 <phantomcircuit> it's pretty easy
 474 2012-03-01 14:22:05 <etotheipi_> I'm starting small, and adding as I go
 475 2012-03-01 14:22:20 cosurgi has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 476 2012-03-01 14:22:57 <phantomcircuit> challenger sends nonce, verifier generates nonce, hashes both, signs hash (or if it's a shared key calculates an hmac) then sends back both nonces the hash and the signed hash (or hmac)
 477 2012-03-01 14:23:23 cosurgi has joined
 478 2012-03-01 14:24:01 <gmaxwell> sipa: I read that and was completely confused by that.
 479 2012-03-01 14:26:47 jav__ has joined
 480 2012-03-01 14:28:59 <gmaxwell> AIEmpire: do you have any idea why you wouldn't have ended up in the same situation after deleting the wallet?
 481 2012-03-01 14:29:25 att has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 482 2012-03-01 14:29:34 <gmaxwell> AIEmpire: the software creates a wallet when there is none in the same way regardless of if you just deleted it or just installed.
 483 2012-03-01 14:29:45 <gmaxwell> AIEmpire: where did you get the copy of the software you installed?
 484 2012-03-01 14:30:00 <gmaxwell> (is it possible someone is distributing an installer that contains a wallet?)
 485 2012-03-01 14:30:21 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, RPC is telling me to enter my passphrase:  at what point/how do I enter it ?
 486 2012-03-01 14:30:53 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: walletpassphrase
 487 2012-03-01 14:31:14 erle- has quit (Quit: erle-)
 488 2012-03-01 14:32:56 <AIEmpire> gmaxwell: Not sure. The only thing that I can think of, is that I had an older version of the client installed in the past, but subsequently removed it. Though, I can't remember encrypting it and the timestamp says the file was created today. Downloaded it from the official site. http://bitcoin.org/
 489 2012-03-01 14:35:14 <gmaxwell> an old wallet would do it— if it was encrypted. I'll check the mac installer to make sure it's not including a wallet file, just to be sure.
 490 2012-03-01 14:35:25 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 491 2012-03-01 14:36:50 <jav__> what's the current situation regarding really large wallets? .. this is still a problem, right, with the client not really being optimized to handle that?
 492 2012-03-01 14:38:21 <gmaxwell> jav__: I have no clue what you're talking about. Define really large. Define 'still a problem'.
 493 2012-03-01 14:38:49 diki has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 494 2012-03-01 14:39:05 Guest47434 has joined
 495 2012-03-01 14:41:49 att has joined
 496 2012-03-01 14:42:22 <jav__> gmaxwell: let's say 100 MB ... still a problem as in RPC commands run for several seconds and produce high CPU spikes
 497 2012-03-01 14:42:42 <jav__> gmaxwell: 100 MB wallet size, that is
 498 2012-03-01 14:43:12 <phantomcircuit> jav__, typically that has nothing to do with size but with number of potential inputs
 499 2012-03-01 14:43:31 <phantomcircuit> try sending yourself largeish blocks of your coins regularly
 500 2012-03-01 14:44:06 <gmaxwell> jav__: The coin selection is something like exptime in the number of unconfirmed self transactions.
 501 2012-03-01 14:44:20 <gmaxwell> This should only be a problem if you're trying to DOS attack the network. :)
 502 2012-03-01 14:44:23 <jav__> phantomcircuit: how about things like 'getaccountbalance' ? I don't think that helps there
 503 2012-03-01 14:44:24 <sipa> gmaxwell: isn't the current algorithm linear?
 504 2012-03-01 14:44:37 <sipa> jav__: yeah, account balanced should be cached...
 505 2012-03-01 14:44:51 <phantomcircuit> is it cached?
 506 2012-03-01 14:44:54 <sipa> no
 507 2012-03-01 14:45:02 <phantomcircuit> it's a linear tabulation
 508 2012-03-01 14:45:32 <sipa> anyone have an email address for eclipsemc?
 509 2012-03-01 14:45:38 <gmaxwell> sipa: no, the coin selection itself is— but it checks every unconfirmed input to see if its inputs are all confirmed.
 510 2012-03-01 14:46:00 <gmaxwell> sipa: and for each of those that are unconfirmed and from you it checks all their inputs to see if they are all confirmed and so on.
 511 2012-03-01 14:46:35 cryptoxchange has joined
 512 2012-03-01 14:46:40 <gmaxwell> sipa: so if you attempt to DOS attack and end up with a long chain of unconfirmed txn, by the time you get to 40 or so it's taking 5 seconds to run.
 513 2012-03-01 14:46:46 <sipa> gmaxwell: oh, isee
 514 2012-03-01 14:46:50 <sipa> yes, indeed
 515 2012-03-01 14:49:53 <sipa> DrHaribo: any contact email address for bitminter.com?
 516 2012-03-01 14:51:01 <gmaxwell> (likewise getinfo / getaccountbalance etc suffers in the same situation for the same reason)
 517 2012-03-01 14:51:13 <phantomcircuit> topi`, 145k
 518 2012-03-01 14:51:25 <gmaxwell> jav__: what exactly are you doing?
 519 2012-03-01 14:51:43 <jav__> gmaxwell: I run Instawallet
 520 2012-03-01 14:51:50 <gmaxwell> Ah.
 521 2012-03-01 14:52:16 <jav__> gmaxwell: and because it was originally just a 'quick thing on the side' it relies on 'getaccountbalance' to display your balance
 522 2012-03-01 14:52:34 <phantomcircuit> jav__, it's entirely possible to have multiple bitcoind instances and only have a single database
 523 2012-03-01 14:52:43 <phantomcircuit> jav__, oh that's bad
 524 2012-03-01 14:52:54 <phantomcircuit> yeah there's probably no reasonable way to scale that :(
 525 2012-03-01 14:53:26 <gmaxwell> jav__: ah, there is some chance that you're hitting the 'long chain of unconfirmed self txn' behavior then.
 526 2012-03-01 14:54:12 <jav__> I actually wrote a caching mechanism at one point which helped for a while: https://github.com/javgh/bitcoin/tree/balancecache
 527 2012-03-01 14:54:19 booo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 528 2012-03-01 14:54:31 libcoin has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 529 2012-03-01 14:54:39 <jav__> basically instead of doing 'getaccountbalance' when the balance is needed, it does it whenever a block comes in
 530 2012-03-01 14:54:47 <phantomcircuit> jav__, lol believe me any system in which bitcoind is directly interfaced with the httpd is bound to fail
 531 2012-03-01 14:55:13 <phantomcircuit> jav__, check the vibanko source for a system which scales very well
 532 2012-03-01 14:55:46 <jav__> it still calculates it each time from scratch though, because I wasn't comfortable with getting a running-tally version right
 533 2012-03-01 14:56:06 <jav__> phantomcircuit: yes, I looked that .. and obviously I would do it like that if I would start from scratch
 534 2012-03-01 14:56:37 <phantomcircuit> it's probably possible to upgrade
 535 2012-03-01 14:56:45 <jav__> since I'm still running an older version, my question was basically, if anything changed lately that would somehow magically solve the problem ... I didn't think so, but just wanted to make sure
 536 2012-03-01 14:57:35 <gmaxwell> There have been some performance improvements, but I'm not aware of them magically solving it— then again I don't actually know what your specific problem is here.
 537 2012-03-01 14:57:50 <gmaxwell> being large alone isn't enough—
 538 2012-03-01 14:58:18 <gmaxwell> a while back I modified the client to think all transactions were its own and rescaned—  I had all the bitcoin in my wallet and the software was still usable.
 539 2012-03-01 14:58:52 <gmaxwell> (well, I think it was still somewhat slow—)
 540 2012-03-01 14:59:31 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, lol
 541 2012-03-01 14:59:39 <phantomcircuit> ALL THE BITCOINS ARE MINE!
 542 2012-03-01 15:00:04 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 543 2012-03-01 15:03:22 occulta has joined
 544 2012-03-01 15:06:22 agricocb has joined
 545 2012-03-01 15:07:22 cryptoxchange has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 546 2012-03-01 15:08:49 cryptoxchange has joined
 547 2012-03-01 15:13:22 gavinandresen has joined
 548 2012-03-01 15:15:02 p0s has joined
 549 2012-03-01 15:19:50 <topi`> phantomcircuit: what is 125k?
 550 2012-03-01 15:20:31 Clipse has joined
 551 2012-03-01 15:23:16 <phantomcircuit> topi`, i was counting up the number of blocks
 552 2012-03-01 15:28:31 cryptoxchange has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 553 2012-03-01 15:29:00 SomeoneWeird is now known as SomeoneWeirdzzzz
 554 2012-03-01 15:30:44 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 555 2012-03-01 15:31:08 Guest10574 has joined
 556 2012-03-01 15:32:38 <phantomcircuit> jav__, btw you still link to tradehill
 557 2012-03-01 15:37:52 imsaguy2 is now known as [\\\]
 558 2012-03-01 15:46:07 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 559 2012-03-01 15:46:38 safra has joined
 560 2012-03-01 15:47:08 <topi`> phantomcircuit: ok cool :)
 561 2012-03-01 15:47:32 <topi`> phantomcircuit: I did as you adviced, the  .bitcoin now points to a dir in tmpfs ... it's already downloaded 27k blocks
 562 2012-03-01 15:47:35 <topi`> that's blazing fast!
 563 2012-03-01 15:48:17 <topi`> also, bitcoind takes 60% of cpu, which is kind of a record. usually it only consumes 2-3% while downloading new blocks
 564 2012-03-01 15:52:35 <topi`> ok, bitcoind died :(
 565 2012-03-01 15:52:36 <topi`> Bitcoin: Warning: Disk space is low
 566 2012-03-01 15:52:36 <topi`> ERROR: AcceptBlock() : out of disk space
 567 2012-03-01 15:52:36 <topi`> ERROR: ProcessBlock() : AcceptBlock FAILED
 568 2012-03-01 15:53:03 <topi`> do I need some special opts for tmpfs so that it grows beyond 200MB?
 569 2012-03-01 15:53:54 <sipa> mount -t tmpfs -o size=2G tmpfs /some/tmp/dir
 570 2012-03-01 15:54:16 <helo> just put it into /dev/shm/
 571 2012-03-01 15:54:25 copumpkin has joined
 572 2012-03-01 15:54:26 <gmaxwell> helo: no. Do not do that.
 573 2012-03-01 15:54:44 <gmaxwell> helo: /dev/shm will have the same default site limit.
 574 2012-03-01 15:54:55 <gmaxwell> (and god knows, you'll break your X when you fill it up or something like that)
 575 2012-03-01 15:55:10 <helo> orly... i must have a different default size limit
 576 2012-03-01 15:55:20 <gmaxwell> helo: it's half physical memory by default.
 577 2012-03-01 15:55:32 <helo> i see... my mistake
 578 2012-03-01 15:55:35 booo has joined
 579 2012-03-01 15:56:10 <gmaxwell> Also, I'm not sure that 2G is enough for the initial sync due to the creation of dblog, it'll be close.
 580 2012-03-01 15:57:32 agricocb has joined
 581 2012-03-01 16:07:29 trantarigost has quit (Read error: No route to host)
 582 2012-03-01 16:07:32 trantarigost- has joined
 583 2012-03-01 16:08:17 <gavinandresen> sipa: ping
 584 2012-03-01 16:08:37 devrandom has joined
 585 2012-03-01 16:09:15 bill_stickers has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
 586 2012-03-01 16:11:07 bill_stickers has joined
 587 2012-03-01 16:13:17 DaQatz has joined
 588 2012-03-01 16:14:38 <sipa> gavinandresen: pong
 589 2012-03-01 16:15:03 <gavinandresen> sipa:  I'm trying to figure out what to say in the rc2 announcement about wallet.dat backwards compatiblity
 590 2012-03-01 16:15:23 <gavinandresen> I think the right answer is: backup your wallet before running 0.6 in case you want to go back
 591 2012-03-01 16:16:07 <gavinandresen> ... although if you don't happen to generate any new keys with 0.6 it'll be compatible, right?
 592 2012-03-01 16:16:30 <gmaxwell> I'd suggest making it not generate compressed addresses for another version— but we already take periodic wallet incompatiblities from bdb upgrades.
 593 2012-03-01 16:16:55 <sipa> gavinandresen: indeed
 594 2012-03-01 16:16:57 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: people don't know if they have or haven't.. their keypool may not have been full.
 595 2012-03-01 16:17:08 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: that just kicks the problem down the road, when we'll hopefully have more people using bitcoin....
 596 2012-03-01 16:17:28 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: no, not really! it could accept but not generate them.
 597 2012-03-01 16:17:39 <gmaxwell> so e.g. 0.6.1 can go back to 0.6 but not before.
 598 2012-03-01 16:17:42 DaQatz has quit (Client Quit)
 599 2012-03-01 16:17:53 <sipa> hmm?
 600 2012-03-01 16:18:05 <sipa> ah, i see
 601 2012-03-01 16:18:05 DaQatz has joined
 602 2012-03-01 16:18:36 <gmaxwell> (though I don't know if its worth it)
 603 2012-03-01 16:18:38 <gavinandresen> hmmm....
 604 2012-03-01 16:18:51 <sipa> that's just changing fCompressed in MakeNewKey to false
 605 2012-03-01 16:19:17 <gmaxwell> esp since people who have run the RCs still can't downgrade.
 606 2012-03-01 16:19:45 <gavinandresen> brand-new wallets we want compressed by default, right?
 607 2012-03-01 16:22:32 <gmaxwell> I don't know. That would further complicate the 'who can downgrade' rules.
 608 2012-03-01 16:22:32 <gavinandresen> Ok, I think the rc2 release notes should just have a blanket "backup your wallet".  Final 0.6 release maybe old wallets should default to creating uncompressed keys
 609 2012-03-01 16:23:26 <gavinandresen> The advantages of compressed keys for network bandwidth, block chain size, etc are pretty big.  I think it's worth downgrade pain to get them sooner rather than later
 610 2012-03-01 16:23:57 <gmaxwell> I'm certantly leaning that way— I only mentioned the alternative because there is on, not because I prefer it.
 611 2012-03-01 16:24:02 <gmaxwell> s/on/one/
 612 2012-03-01 16:24:16 <sipa> by the way, i mailed some 15 pool operators about the dupe transactions issue
 613 2012-03-01 16:24:20 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: ok, it is good to think through the possibilities
 614 2012-03-01 16:24:33 <gavinandresen> sipa:  lemme guess, you got two responses so far....
 615 2012-03-01 16:24:51 <sipa> one
 616 2012-03-01 16:24:59 <gavinandresen> damn off-by-one errors....
 617 2012-03-01 16:25:45 * Graet checks email
 618 2012-03-01 16:26:12 <sipa> though i don't expected many answers within 45 minutes
 619 2012-03-01 16:27:14 manifold_ has joined
 620 2012-03-01 16:27:18 <gavinandresen> I'm being cynical, you'll probably get 5 in the next 24 hours
 621 2012-03-01 16:28:22 att has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 622 2012-03-01 16:30:09 <sipa> gavinandresen: if those 5 include deepbit, that's fine :)
 623 2012-03-01 16:30:17 Guest47434 is now known as diki
 624 2012-03-01 16:30:42 <diki> gavinandresen:Is it possible for you to add a controllable difficulty when in testnet?
 625 2012-03-01 16:30:55 <topi`> I still don't understand how it loads the blocks so fast now. Did anything happen between 0.3.x and 0.5.99?
 626 2012-03-01 16:30:57 <diki> but it should only work with local peers
 627 2012-03-01 16:31:42 <sipa> topi`: yes
 628 2012-03-01 16:31:55 <sipa> diki: use testnet in a box
 629 2012-03-01 16:32:12 <topi`> downloading the blocks happens now at a rate of 2.5M/s
 630 2012-03-01 16:32:20 <sipa> gavinandresen: two!
 631 2012-03-01 16:32:34 <topi`> if an average block is 25K, then it could in theory download 100 blocks per second
 632 2012-03-01 16:32:59 <diki> sipa:I am
 633 2012-03-01 16:33:05 <diki> but the difficulty is low
 634 2012-03-01 16:33:13 <diki> like 0.125 and I need it higher
 635 2012-03-01 16:33:18 <topi`> I think I'm getting 200-300 blocks per second
 636 2012-03-01 16:33:57 <sipa> topi`: download speed mainly depends on your peer's network connections, but downloading was never the problem (except around 0.3.23)
 637 2012-03-01 16:34:01 <diki> topi`:if you are downloading the blockchain right now, it will get slower as more txes appear
 638 2012-03-01 16:34:15 <topi`> right
 639 2012-03-01 16:34:32 <topi`> diki: my net connection is 100Mbps
 640 2012-03-01 16:34:46 <topi`> (it's my server in a colocation site)
 641 2012-03-01 16:35:21 <gavinandresen> diki:  change this line of code in main.cpp:  bnProofOfWorkLimit = CBigNum(~uint256(0) >> 28);
 642 2012-03-01 16:35:40 <topi`> woohoo, bitcoind consumes the other core entirely :)
 643 2012-03-01 16:35:58 <gavinandresen> diki:  >>32 is main net 1.0 difficulty, if you want it twice as hard use >>33
 644 2012-03-01 16:36:10 <diki> gavinandresen:sadly, I do not have the ability to compile bitcoin atm
 645 2012-03-01 16:36:49 <diki> Guess I will have to mine 2016 blocks
 646 2012-03-01 16:37:00 <gavinandresen> diki: real testnet difficulty was something like 8 last time I checked
 647 2012-03-01 16:37:53 <gavinandresen> Somebody should create a bunch of testnets-in-a-box at different difficulties....
 648 2012-03-01 16:39:05 OneMiner has left ()
 649 2012-03-01 16:42:27 MrTiggr has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 650 2012-03-01 16:42:49 hsy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 651 2012-03-01 16:43:18 hsy has joined
 652 2012-03-01 16:44:15 [eval] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 653 2012-03-01 16:44:36 datagutt_ is now known as datagutt
 654 2012-03-01 16:46:05 libcoin has joined
 655 2012-03-01 16:46:37 JRWR has quit (Disconnected by services)
 656 2012-03-01 16:46:49 JRWR has joined
 657 2012-03-01 16:49:46 <gmaxwell> topi`: you're running in tmpfs now.
 658 2012-03-01 16:50:40 [eval] has joined
 659 2012-03-01 16:53:38 <jav__> phantomcircuit: thx, removed the remaining TradeHill links now as well
 660 2012-03-01 16:54:34 Joric has joined
 661 2012-03-01 16:54:34 Joric has quit (Changing host)
 662 2012-03-01 16:54:34 Joric has joined
 663 2012-03-01 16:55:26 occulta has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
 664 2012-03-01 17:01:46 vigilyn2 has joined
 665 2012-03-01 17:03:29 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 666 2012-03-01 17:03:36 <DrHaribo> sipa: operator@bitminter.com
 667 2012-03-01 17:04:49 <Graet> sipa reading and discussing with the crew :)
 668 2012-03-01 17:04:56 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 669 2012-03-01 17:09:45 <nanotube> gavinandresen: btw, bitcoin 0.5.2 doesn't have any way to verify integrity.  0.5.1 had sha1sums.asc, at least. would you care to upload a sha1sums.asc for 0.5.2?
 670 2012-03-01 17:10:25 <nanotube> i mean, the releases on sf.net
 671 2012-03-01 17:11:57 att has joined
 672 2012-03-01 17:13:04 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 673 2012-03-01 17:16:00 Neskia has joined
 674 2012-03-01 17:16:33 <gavinandresen> nanotube: will do later this afternoon
 675 2012-03-01 17:17:09 <nanotube> gavinandresen: thank you :)
 676 2012-03-01 17:18:10 <nanotube> also, fyi, there have been a total of 74k downloads of 0.5.2. :)
 677 2012-03-01 17:18:25 [eval] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 678 2012-03-01 17:18:41 Nesetalis has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 679 2012-03-01 17:19:43 AIEmpire has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 680 2012-03-01 17:23:37 darkee has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 681 2012-03-01 17:27:31 darkee has joined
 682 2012-03-01 17:35:19 darkee has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 683 2012-03-01 17:35:21 manifold_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 684 2012-03-01 17:39:41 <helo> i have an idea that i need shot down ;)
 685 2012-03-01 17:40:19 BlueMatt has joined
 686 2012-03-01 17:40:34 <helo> firstly, can bitcoin's ecdsa public/private keypairs be used for encryption/decryption?
 687 2012-03-01 17:44:16 <gmaxwell> helo: You could use them for key agreement for encryption, yes.
 688 2012-03-01 17:44:29 <BlueMatt> not directly using ecdsa
 689 2012-03-01 17:44:30 <helo> err right
 690 2012-03-01 17:44:32 <gmaxwell> (not addresses, mind you— but public keys)
 691 2012-03-01 17:44:41 <gmaxwell> You'd use ECDH.
 692 2012-03-01 17:45:07 <helo> if miners included IP addresses of full nodes they control in their coinbases, would that create a reliable list of full nodes to use?
 693 2012-03-01 17:45:36 <gmaxwell> Why should you trust miners?
 694 2012-03-01 17:46:27 <gmaxwell> (or their ISPs, for that matter)
 695 2012-03-01 17:46:28 <helo> just following the idea of full nodes becoming expensive to run, it seems that miners will be the most likely to have enough resources to run one
 696 2012-03-01 17:46:38 <gmaxwell> Miners must run one, in fact.
 697 2012-03-01 17:46:43 <gmaxwell> Can't mine without one.
 698 2012-03-01 17:46:48 <Graet> yep
 699 2012-03-01 17:47:20 <gmaxwell> but you could ask any node to prove it had access to a full node just by asking it random history questions.
 700 2012-03-01 17:47:26 <helo> well the identity of the full node could be verified via some kind of public/private key handshake (thus the encryption question)
 701 2012-03-01 17:47:47 <helo> so you wouldn't have to trust the ISP
 702 2012-03-01 17:48:07 darkee has joined
 703 2012-03-01 17:48:35 ivan\ has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
 704 2012-03-01 17:50:31 <helo> is trusting miner-ran full nodes (in aggregate) the same as trusting the majority of the network?
 705 2012-03-01 17:51:15 <BlueMatt> what does putting ip addresses in blocks give you?
 706 2012-03-01 17:51:27 <BlueMatt> by the time you have blocks you have already bootstrapped
 707 2012-03-01 17:51:32 <BlueMatt> so why do you need to at that point?
 708 2012-03-01 17:51:38 <helo> i guess centralizing a directory of full nodes via the blockchain isn't nearly as important as centralizing an official set of transactions
 709 2012-03-01 17:51:52 <BlueMatt> why do you want a directory of full nodes?
 710 2012-03-01 17:51:56 <BlueMatt> there is no reason to have that
 711 2012-03-01 17:53:02 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 712 2012-03-01 17:53:03 <topi`> Rescanning last 29101 blocks (from block 103673)...
 713 2012-03-01 17:53:12 <topi`> why does the bitcoind need to rescan x blocks?
 714 2012-03-01 17:53:28 <topi`> (i'm assuming it has to do with the "out of disk space...bitcoind exiting"
 715 2012-03-01 17:53:39 <BlueMatt> your wallet keeps a setting that is "last block this wallet was uptodate with"
 716 2012-03-01 17:53:54 <topi`> hm, interesting. but 29k blocks is quite a lot.
 717 2012-03-01 17:54:05 <BlueMatt> and if you have more blocks than that and open a wallet, it has to scan to make sure it didnt miss transactions
 718 2012-03-01 17:54:12 <gmaxwell> helo: in bitcoin you only trust the majority of the network to be honest about the mutual ordering of transactions.
 719 2012-03-01 17:54:16 <topi`> right
 720 2012-03-01 17:54:25 <gmaxwell> helo: everything else you verify for yourself.
 721 2012-03-01 17:54:33 ivan\ has joined
 722 2012-03-01 17:57:12 <helo> i suppose a miner wouldn't really want a ton of people connecting directly to their full nodes either, as opposed to through the p2p network
 723 2012-03-01 17:59:21 Turingi has joined
 724 2012-03-01 17:59:53 pusle has joined
 725 2012-03-01 18:00:03 <helo> putting the IP address of full nodes in the blockchain would be pretty sub-optimal vs getting full nodes from the p2p network i guess, even if full nodes are so expensive that only miners can afford to run them
 726 2012-03-01 18:00:52 <BlueMatt> the network already has a method of relaying info about full nodes to each other, I really see no reason why we need to put thought into adding another method
 727 2012-03-01 18:01:48 <helo> shot down indeed... thank you :)
 728 2012-03-01 18:03:43 <Joric> help fbi put ip's into the blockchain :D
 729 2012-03-01 18:07:43 sacarlson has joined
 730 2012-03-01 18:08:33 [\\\] is now known as [\\\\\\\\\\\\\\]
 731 2012-03-01 18:09:23 [\\\\\\\\\\\\\\] is now known as imsaguy2
 732 2012-03-01 18:09:43 imsaguy2 is now known as comingsoon
 733 2012-03-01 18:10:12 comingsoon is now known as imsaguy2
 734 2012-03-01 18:10:26 smickles has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 735 2012-03-01 18:10:38 CaptainDDL has joined
 736 2012-03-01 18:12:43 booo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 737 2012-03-01 18:12:55 Lolcust has quit (Quit: Nap time)
 738 2012-03-01 18:15:04 ThomasV has joined
 739 2012-03-01 18:15:49 Ahimoth has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 740 2012-03-01 18:21:44 Ahimoth has joined
 741 2012-03-01 18:24:42 vigilyn2 is now known as vigilyn
 742 2012-03-01 18:26:31 Insti has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 743 2012-03-01 18:30:48 ovidiusoft has joined
 744 2012-03-01 18:34:59 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 745 2012-03-01 18:35:08 Ahimoth has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 746 2012-03-01 18:37:20 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 747 2012-03-01 18:37:59 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
 748 2012-03-01 18:38:43 Lolcust has joined
 749 2012-03-01 18:41:16 bodom has joined
 750 2012-03-01 18:43:00 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
 751 2012-03-01 18:43:05 iocor has joined
 752 2012-03-01 18:43:58 freewil has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 753 2012-03-01 18:46:16 trantarigost- has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 754 2012-03-01 18:46:35 freewil has joined
 755 2012-03-01 18:47:12 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 756 2012-03-01 18:48:03 ThomasV has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 757 2012-03-01 18:50:11 topi` has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 758 2012-03-01 18:50:42 freewil has quit (Client Quit)
 759 2012-03-01 18:50:54 freewil has joined
 760 2012-03-01 18:52:52 localhost has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 761 2012-03-01 18:53:09 barmstrong has joined
 762 2012-03-01 18:56:31 localhost has joined
 763 2012-03-01 18:56:32 Ahimoth has joined
 764 2012-03-01 18:57:27 smickles has joined
 765 2012-03-01 18:57:47 Wack0 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 766 2012-03-01 18:58:15 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 767 2012-03-01 18:58:32 RichardG has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 768 2012-03-01 18:59:11 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
 769 2012-03-01 18:59:20 bodom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 770 2012-03-01 19:00:25 topi` has joined
 771 2012-03-01 19:01:25 dvide has joined
 772 2012-03-01 19:08:02 BlueMatt has joined
 773 2012-03-01 19:10:35 agricocb has joined
 774 2012-03-01 19:11:12 sacarlson has joined
 775 2012-03-01 19:11:55 imsaguy2 is now known as nan0tube
 776 2012-03-01 19:12:58 nan0tube is now known as imsaguy2
 777 2012-03-01 19:13:28 <BlueMatt> sipa: whats the status on asking miners for bip 30 support?
 778 2012-03-01 19:13:58 <BlueMatt> seems to have consensus on mailing list
 779 2012-03-01 19:22:50 <sipa> BlueMatt: two have agreed
 780 2012-03-01 19:23:14 <sipa> i mailed them a few hours ago
 781 2012-03-01 19:23:47 <BlueMatt> nice
 782 2012-03-01 19:24:24 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 783 2012-03-01 19:24:57 <BlueMatt> so I guess we are going with "ship this as a part of 0.6 and make it active a day or two after the target ship date of 0.6 as we get closer to release"?
 784 2012-03-01 19:25:15 <BlueMatt> or do you want to get miners to switch on a set date independent of that?
 785 2012-03-01 19:25:38 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 786 2012-03-01 19:27:42 sacarlson has joined
 787 2012-03-01 19:27:46 smickles has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 788 2012-03-01 19:28:26 MobiusL has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 789 2012-03-01 19:28:43 smickles has joined
 790 2012-03-01 19:29:53 MobiusL has joined
 791 2012-03-01 19:38:34 <sipa> BlueMatt: i askedhow fast they could deploy when a date was decided; i'll try to get some 70% support, and then pick a date reasonable to them
 792 2012-03-01 19:39:05 <BlueMatt> sipa: ok, sounds good then
 793 2012-03-01 19:40:25 btc_novice has joined
 794 2012-03-01 19:42:20 squirgly has joined
 795 2012-03-01 19:42:44 smickles has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 796 2012-03-01 19:44:14 smickles has joined
 797 2012-03-01 19:44:15 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 798 2012-03-01 19:47:05 orbiting has joined
 799 2012-03-01 19:47:08 orbiting_ has joined
 800 2012-03-01 19:47:19 orbiting_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 801 2012-03-01 19:48:12 sacarlson has joined
 802 2012-03-01 19:50:05 safra has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 803 2012-03-01 19:51:20 bill_stickers has quit (Quit: leaving)
 804 2012-03-01 19:52:38 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 805 2012-03-01 19:58:24 datagutt has quit (Quit: Ping Timeout (1))
 806 2012-03-01 20:01:41 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 807 2012-03-01 20:08:15 sacarlson has joined
 808 2012-03-01 20:09:51 usergffh has joined
 809 2012-03-01 20:12:26 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 810 2012-03-01 20:12:58 sacarlson has joined
 811 2012-03-01 20:14:35 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 812 2012-03-01 20:19:39 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 813 2012-03-01 20:20:32 RazielZ has joined
 814 2012-03-01 20:22:26 gp5st has joined
 815 2012-03-01 20:24:55 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 816 2012-03-01 20:25:20 zz_bitcoinsarefu is now known as bitcoinsarefun
 817 2012-03-01 20:25:21 Lolcust has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 818 2012-03-01 20:26:14 sacarlson has joined
 819 2012-03-01 20:26:15 ovidiusoft has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 820 2012-03-01 20:26:20 Lolcust has joined
 821 2012-03-01 20:32:08 SomeoneWeirdzzzz is now known as SomeoneWeird
 822 2012-03-01 20:32:39 Insti has joined
 823 2012-03-01 20:32:39 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 824 2012-03-01 20:38:01 sacarlson has joined
 825 2012-03-01 20:38:28 BlueMatt has joined
 826 2012-03-01 20:43:05 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 827 2012-03-01 20:44:04 ivan` has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
 828 2012-03-01 20:44:23 <sipa> 16% support for BIP30 :)
 829 2012-03-01 20:44:56 <slush> sipa: how did you get this?
 830 2012-03-01 20:45:13 <sipa> slush: you, bitlc, mtred
 831 2012-03-01 20:45:57 <sipa> update: 50%
 832 2012-03-01 20:45:59 <slush> oh so
 833 2012-03-01 20:46:10 sacarlson has joined
 834 2012-03-01 20:46:37 <BlueMatt> sipa: got deepbit?
 835 2012-03-01 20:46:41 <DrHaribo> BitMinter will of course support bip30. Can deploy on a day's notice.
 836 2012-03-01 20:46:49 ivan` has joined
 837 2012-03-01 20:46:50 <sipa> BlueMatt: yes
 838 2012-03-01 20:46:52 <BlueMatt> nice
 839 2012-03-01 20:46:55 <sipa> DrHaribo: thanks
 840 2012-03-01 20:47:39 <jine> :)
 841 2012-03-01 20:48:15 squirgly has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 842 2012-03-01 20:54:01 <Joric> Eric Schmidt saying 'bitcoin' http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4DKLSO8wYzk#t=2074s
 843 2012-03-01 20:54:11 <sipa> Ben (piuk) claims that CheckBlock() will fail on a block whose coinbase was erased from the txdb... I don't see how.
 844 2012-03-01 20:54:58 <Joric> lol from what i heard he just said 'bitcoin is nuts'
 845 2012-03-01 20:55:03 iocor has joined
 846 2012-03-01 20:55:51 iocor has quit (Client Quit)
 847 2012-03-01 20:56:13 dvide has quit ()
 848 2012-03-01 20:57:16 <edcba> but he pushed for some p2p money ?
 849 2012-03-01 20:57:27 <edcba> from what i read in the internets
 850 2012-03-01 20:57:42 <edcba> but did give up cause "laws"
 851 2012-03-01 20:58:37 iocor has joined
 852 2012-03-01 20:58:38 <edcba> so maybe that bitcoin java client was/is endorsed by eric schmidt himself !
 853 2012-03-01 20:58:49 <DrHaribo> sounds like they gave up on "google bucks" because of peer-to-peer money being problematic with regard to money laundering
 854 2012-03-01 20:59:13 <edcba> i don't see how it's more problematic than cash
 855 2012-03-01 20:59:22 libcoin1 has joined
 856 2012-03-01 20:59:36 libcoin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 857 2012-03-01 20:59:45 <hsy> google is already into too much, and their checkout doesn't do well, so why bother with this when there is bitcoin :)
 858 2012-03-01 21:03:15 <Joric> maybe they will adopt bitcoin with a tiny modification allowing more government control
 859 2012-03-01 21:03:27 <sipa> i seriously doubt that
 860 2012-03-01 21:04:48 <edcba> wow are you familiar with bitcoin lol
 861 2012-03-01 21:04:50 <Joric> heard mr solidcoin added some central authority allowing him arbitrarily change any and everything in the chain
 862 2012-03-01 21:05:06 <edcba> seems he really knows that
 863 2012-03-01 21:05:07 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 864 2012-03-01 21:05:19 <DrHaribo> That's solid. For real. :P
 865 2012-03-01 21:06:10 <edcba> anyway as a company i doubt google could do much
 866 2012-03-01 21:07:20 <edcba> better let bitcoin develop illegally(?) and then legalize it somehow
 867 2012-03-01 21:07:23 <edcba> like paypal
 868 2012-03-01 21:07:25 <edcba> and google :)
 869 2012-03-01 21:09:04 gavinandresen has joined
 870 2012-03-01 21:09:32 titeuf_87 has joined
 871 2012-03-01 21:10:23 <gavinandresen> Linode hacked:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=66916.0
 872 2012-03-01 21:10:45 <gavinandresen> THIS is why we need multisignature six months ago...
 873 2012-03-01 21:12:37 sgornick has joined
 874 2012-03-01 21:12:55 sacarlson has joined
 875 2012-03-01 21:14:18 pentarh has joined
 876 2012-03-01 21:15:00 <gmaxwell> oy boy.
 877 2012-03-01 21:15:08 <Joric> oh gawd faucet was hacked
 878 2012-03-01 21:15:22 <doublec> given that the pool needs to do payouts, and the software would need to access both wallets if multisig was used, how would multisig help?
 879 2012-03-01 21:15:51 <sipa> doublec: i was about to type the same thing
 880 2012-03-01 21:16:30 <gavinandresen> You'd half-sign transactions on one machine, then send them to another machine for finalization.  That other machine would look for suspicious activity, and NOT sign if there were signs of a hack (like sending 3,000 coins to one address)
 881 2012-03-01 21:17:15 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 882 2012-03-01 21:17:35 <gavinandresen> In the case of the Faucet, it'd half sign payouts and then the policy for the other machine would be pretty simple to prevent hackers from stealing more than 0.005 bitcoins at a time
 883 2012-03-01 21:17:47 <doublec> how is that different from just doing all payments form that other machine?
 884 2012-03-01 21:17:57 <gavinandresen> What if that OTHER machine gets hacked?
 885 2012-03-01 21:18:09 <gavinandresen> You have to hack both at the same time to steal with multisig
 886 2012-03-01 21:18:30 <doublec> not really since hacking the other machine still allows them to steal all half signed transactions
 887 2012-03-01 21:18:48 <gavinandresen> No, you can't modify the half-signed transaction
 888 2012-03-01 21:18:56 <gavinandresen> That would invalidate all the existing signatures
 889 2012-03-01 21:19:24 <DrHaribo> Linode really needs to give up on trying to cover this up
 890 2012-03-01 21:19:54 Diablo-D3 has joined
 891 2012-03-01 21:20:01 Joric_ has joined
 892 2012-03-01 21:20:01 Joric_ has quit (Changing host)
 893 2012-03-01 21:20:01 Joric_ has joined
 894 2012-03-01 21:20:02 * helo wonders what kind of access law enforcement gets to places like linode
 895 2012-03-01 21:20:05 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Relax, its only ONES and ZEROS!)
 896 2012-03-01 21:20:24 <gmaxwell> gavin deserves credit for his forsight in not keeping all the faucet coins online.
 897 2012-03-01 21:20:26 <DrHaribo> Wouldn't it be possible for a block explorer like service to mark these coins as stolen, and any transactions they go to? So legit exchanges can refuse them?
 898 2012-03-01 21:20:34 <gmaxwell> foresight*
 899 2012-03-01 21:20:50 <sipa> DrHaribo: i'm not sure i'd like that evolution
 900 2012-03-01 21:20:59 <gmaxwell> DrHaribo: thats a crappy idea— I'd just find people who don't know to refuse them and pass them off, then innocent people get screwed.
 901 2012-03-01 21:21:29 <gmaxwell> The exchanges should be on the lookout for them, in case the theif is dumb enough to hand them directly off... yes.. but thats not the same as autoblacklisting them.
 902 2012-03-01 21:21:41 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: hey
 903 2012-03-01 21:21:47 <Diablo-D3> why the fuck cant bitcoin load faster
 904 2012-03-01 21:21:52 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 905 2012-03-01 21:22:02 <Diablo-D3> it just sits there for like 24901832409349142094 seconds saying loading block index
 906 2012-03-01 21:22:11 Joric_ is now known as Joric
 907 2012-03-01 21:22:11 <DrHaribo> Well, yeah, as long as you can push them onto some innocent guy... at that point one of the good guys lost.
 908 2012-03-01 21:22:59 <doublec> DrHaribo: the problem is then all bitcoin transfers become risky
 909 2012-03-01 21:23:07 <doublec> DrHaribo: since any trade you do could leave you with 'bad' coins
 910 2012-03-01 21:23:13 <gmaxwell> DrHaribo: it would require a centeralized bad coin service to distribute bad lists— and that would really kind of moot the decenteralization of bitcoin.
 911 2012-03-01 21:23:14 sacarlson has joined
 912 2012-03-01 21:23:18 <doublec> as a merchant, why would you take that risk
 913 2012-03-01 21:24:12 <DrHaribo> What do they do "irl" when a bank is robbed and they have the serial number of all the bills?
 914 2012-03-01 21:24:44 <gmaxwell> DrHaribo: watch out for them and investigate when they show up.
 915 2012-03-01 21:25:12 <Diablo-D3> DrHaribo: they dont really do it that way anymore
 916 2012-03-01 21:25:39 <Diablo-D3> they just load the sack with ink pellets and look for anyone that florescences UV.
 917 2012-03-01 21:26:01 * Diablo-D3 thinks he used too many letters
 918 2012-03-01 21:26:04 <DrHaribo> Ok, then what do they do when they find the marked bills :)
 919 2012-03-01 21:26:14 <Diablo-D3> well, by then, its too late
 920 2012-03-01 21:26:28 <Diablo-D3> they want to recover the money BEFORE its spent
 921 2012-03-01 21:26:42 <sipa> I assume that if bitcoin would be common, justice departments and law encforcement would be accustomed to following coins and blacklisting them themselves
 922 2012-03-01 21:26:52 <Joric> it's about time for writting thief tracking software to track those 3094 btc from slush
 923 2012-03-01 21:27:04 <Diablo-D3> sipa: "blacklisting coins"
 924 2012-03-01 21:27:05 <Diablo-D3> lololol
 925 2012-03-01 21:27:10 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin doesnt work that way
 926 2012-03-01 21:27:15 <gmaxwell> Joric: you mean the 5k stolen so far? :-/
 927 2012-03-01 21:27:24 <gmaxwell> go look at the address that recieved those coins.
 928 2012-03-01 21:27:51 <sipa> Diablo-D3: i call "unspent transaction outputs" coins
 929 2012-03-01 21:28:15 <DrHaribo> What about the way blockchain.info tracks the IP addresses new blocks come from? Could you track new transactions the same way?
 930 2012-03-01 21:28:24 <sipa> DrHaribo: doesn't it?
 931 2012-03-01 21:28:27 <BlueMatt> it does
 932 2012-03-01 21:28:34 <DrHaribo> Ah, I never checked
 933 2012-03-01 21:28:35 <gmaxwell> it does, but the figures are largely bs.
 934 2012-03-01 21:29:01 <gmaxwell> Backtracking from exchanges is probably a more reliable investigation tool.
 935 2012-03-01 21:29:14 <DrHaribo> I suppose the hacker would just send his transactions out from a hacked computer anyway.
 936 2012-03-01 21:29:19 <gmaxwell> Tor
 937 2012-03-01 21:29:24 <DrHaribo> Yeah, or that
 938 2012-03-01 21:29:33 <gavinandresen> I wonder if I'd encrypted the wallet, then unlocked with a 10-years-from-now expiration, if that would've stopped the hack.....  I suspect the copied the wallet.dat
 939 2012-03-01 21:30:09 <BlueMatt> what hack?
 940 2012-03-01 21:30:18 <Joric> gavinandresen, faucet wasn't encrypted?
 941 2012-03-01 21:30:38 <gavinandresen> Joric: no, I never bothered.
 942 2012-03-01 21:30:45 <sipa> [Tycho] will "think tomorrow" about how soon he can deploy BIP30
 943 2012-03-01 21:30:52 <sipa> the guy needs a day for that?
 944 2012-03-01 21:31:08 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: "Our investigation has revealed a customer support interface was used to access your account."   the Faucet and slush's linodes got hacked
 945 2012-03-01 21:31:10 <BlueMatt> its [Tycho] he likes to take his time
 946 2012-03-01 21:31:21 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: oh...wtf?
 947 2012-03-01 21:31:25 <DrHaribo> If the wallet is encrypted your service can't boot without you typing a password. Isn't that a bit of a pain?
 948 2012-03-01 21:31:39 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=66916.0  for the full story
 949 2012-03-01 21:31:50 <Joric> looks like BlueMatt's encryption wasn't that useless after all )
 950 2012-03-01 21:32:08 <BlueMatt> no one ever said it would stop a determined attacker
 951 2012-03-01 21:32:53 <gavinandresen> DrHaribo:  yes.  Although the Faucet linode wasn't setup to start bitcoind automatically, so in my particular case it would only be one more rpc call whenever the server was rebooted.
 952 2012-03-01 21:33:17 <gmaxwell> and the faucet isn't exactly so mission criticial that it couldn't be down for a bit.
 953 2012-03-01 21:33:41 <gavinandresen> yup. And because I never kept more than 20 bitcoins on it I didn't worry much about wallet security.
 954 2012-03-01 21:34:15 <gavinandresen> One of the big reasons I shut down ClearCoin was because that wallet WAS getting big enough that I'd have to worry a lot more than I wanted to about security....
 955 2012-03-01 21:37:37 <sipa> anyone thinks what Ben (piuk) says on the mailinglist makes sense?
 956 2012-03-01 21:37:58 <sipa> afaics, CheckBlock() does not do any database reads at all
 957 2012-03-01 21:38:04 <doublec> It'll be interesting to see if any other linode based services are hacked
 958 2012-03-01 21:38:23 <doublec> I wonder if they went through the known node addresses looking for linode ones and targeted them
 959 2012-03-01 21:38:36 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 960 2012-03-01 21:38:54 <doublec> that would identify nodes on non web-facing machines
 961 2012-03-01 21:39:22 <doublec> I have a node on a linode with no web facing client and it hasn't been hacked though
 962 2012-03-01 21:41:04 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: what version of bdb does your PPA use?
 963 2012-03-01 21:41:12 <edcba> damn hackers really like bitcoins lol
 964 2012-03-01 21:41:21 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: 4.8, same as others...
 965 2012-03-01 21:41:30 <doublec> wow, so linode admitted it was their end
 966 2012-03-01 21:41:41 <BlueMatt> now will they refund them?
 967 2012-03-01 21:42:17 <sipa> BlueMatt: i'd be surprised about that
 968 2012-03-01 21:42:22 sacarlson has joined
 969 2012-03-01 21:42:33 <_W_> not without a lawsuit at least
 970 2012-03-01 21:42:36 <BlueMatt> if they admitted it was on their end...
 971 2012-03-01 21:42:42 <sipa> that would cost them more than losing slush as a customer
 972 2012-03-01 21:42:48 <BlueMatt> but yea, I doubt it too
 973 2012-03-01 21:42:53 <doublec> their tos protects them
 974 2012-03-01 21:42:57 <Joric> bitcoins are so geeky hackers just can't stand stealing them
 975 2012-03-01 21:42:58 <doublec> "Subscriber further acknowledges that Linode.com's liability for its own negligence may not in any event exceed an amount equivalent to charges payable by subscriber for services during the period damages occurred"
 976 2012-03-01 21:43:35 <_W_> doublec, depends, really. A ToS doesn't supercede law
 977 2012-03-01 21:43:55 <_W_> but I agree chances of winning a suit are slim
 978 2012-03-01 21:45:31 Cablesaurus has joined
 979 2012-03-01 21:45:31 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
 980 2012-03-01 21:45:31 Cablesaurus has joined
 981 2012-03-01 21:46:09 <edcba> he can earn back $5 !
 982 2012-03-01 21:46:21 <edcba> about 1 whole BTC
 983 2012-03-01 21:47:02 <edcba> every hoster should have a bitcoin node
 984 2012-03-01 21:47:10 <edcba> just to have an incentive for hackers
 985 2012-03-01 21:47:27 <edcba> so the one having the better funded node would be the most secure !
 986 2012-03-01 21:48:11 orbiting has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 987 2012-03-01 21:48:55 <Joric> 4588 btc @ 5.00 just arrived on mtgox )
 988 2012-03-01 21:49:17 <Diablo-D3> what a dumbass
 989 2012-03-01 21:49:24 <Diablo-D3> doesnt the thief know about predictinator?
 990 2012-03-01 21:49:35 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 991 2012-03-01 21:49:50 <edcba> doesn't the thief know about high trackability of bitcoin ?
 992 2012-03-01 21:50:28 <gmaxwell> edcba: whats better ... having 0 bitcoins or having 5000 bitcoins that are dirty which you must run through gpumax by buying mining first?
 993 2012-03-01 21:50:51 <gmaxwell> even paying out 200% pps thats still ~2500 BTC free and clear.
 994 2012-03-01 21:51:01 <edcba> dirty bitcoins spent on dirty internet services
 995 2012-03-01 21:53:12 agricocb has joined
 996 2012-03-01 21:55:32 JRWR has quit (Quit: BTC Welcome: 19QtYzmENUmqRhvjEvHsz785rqZ5RRcZG4)
 997 2012-03-01 21:56:21 swulf--1 has joined
 998 2012-03-01 21:57:41 sacarlson has joined
 999 2012-03-01 21:57:56 swulf-- has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1000 2012-03-01 22:00:06 att has quit (Read error: No route to host)
1001 2012-03-01 22:00:58 pusle has quit ()
1002 2012-03-01 22:01:08 orbiting has joined
1003 2012-03-01 22:02:27 booo has joined
1004 2012-03-01 22:06:00 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1005 2012-03-01 22:06:24 sacarlson has joined
1006 2012-03-01 22:09:22 AIEmpire has joined
1007 2012-03-01 22:12:59 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1008 2012-03-01 22:14:17 <sipa> fok, piuk was wrong about the CheckBlock() issue, but he found another one: running CBlock::DisconnectBlock() on two blocks with identical coinbase will fail, as the second time EraseTxIndex fails
1009 2012-03-01 22:14:27 <sipa> it's trivial to fix though
1010 2012-03-01 22:17:25 sacarlson has joined
1011 2012-03-01 22:21:19 swulf-- has joined
1012 2012-03-01 22:24:24 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1013 2012-03-01 22:24:35 swulf--1 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1014 2012-03-01 22:25:45 sacarlson has joined
1015 2012-03-01 22:27:04 RedEmerald has quit (Changing host)
1016 2012-03-01 22:27:04 RedEmerald has joined
1017 2012-03-01 22:30:31 imsaguy is now known as [\\\]
1018 2012-03-01 22:31:07 [\\\] is now known as [\\\\\\\\\\\\\\]
1019 2012-03-01 22:32:48 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1020 2012-03-01 22:33:51 barmstrong has joined
1021 2012-03-01 22:34:20 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1022 2012-03-01 22:34:21 barmstrong has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1023 2012-03-01 22:34:32 barmstrong has joined
1024 2012-03-01 22:37:39 sacarlson has joined
1025 2012-03-01 22:42:56 lyspooner has joined
1026 2012-03-01 22:43:41 jav__ has quit (Quit: Verlassend)
1027 2012-03-01 22:43:52 lyspooner has quit (Changing host)
1028 2012-03-01 22:43:52 lyspooner has joined
1029 2012-03-01 22:44:10 dbe has joined
1030 2012-03-01 22:44:23 dbe has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1031 2012-03-01 22:44:35 dbe has joined
1032 2012-03-01 22:47:13 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1033 2012-03-01 22:50:41 <copumpkin> zomg: http://www.pds.ewi.tudelft.nl/~victor/bitcoin.html
1034 2012-03-01 22:58:53 <gmaxwell> This person should be embarassed that their writing makes it sound like they haven't read to the same references they linked to.
1035 2012-03-01 22:59:30 viscienzo64 has joined
1036 2012-03-01 22:59:35 <gmaxwell> Oh I've seen this idiots page before.
1037 2012-03-01 23:00:24 <copumpkin> it's better than another victor on the internet
1038 2012-03-01 23:00:37 <copumpkin> http://portonvictor.org/
1039 2012-03-01 23:03:35 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1040 2012-03-01 23:04:28 da2ce7 has joined
1041 2012-03-01 23:05:15 viscienzo64 has left ()
1042 2012-03-01 23:09:25 <edcba> http://motivationalgenerator.com/unmoderated-motivational-posters/58375
1043 2012-03-01 23:10:52 att has joined
1044 2012-03-01 23:11:50 ThomasV has joined
1045 2012-03-01 23:13:08 lyspooner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111220165912])
1046 2012-03-01 23:13:47 sacarlson has joined
1047 2012-03-01 23:14:20 Tuxavant has quit (Quit: Disconnecting from stoned server.)
1048 2012-03-01 23:15:11 Tuxavant has joined
1049 2012-03-01 23:19:13 ThomasV has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1050 2012-03-01 23:21:17 TD has joined
1051 2012-03-01 23:22:51 titeuf_87 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1052 2012-03-01 23:25:15 TD has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1053 2012-03-01 23:25:49 blishchrot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1054 2012-03-01 23:26:55 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1055 2012-03-01 23:27:40 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1056 2012-03-01 23:32:48 sacarlson has joined
1057 2012-03-01 23:38:10 JRWR has joined
1058 2012-03-01 23:39:14 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1059 2012-03-01 23:39:43 Rebroad has joined
1060 2012-03-01 23:41:10 sacarlson has joined
1061 2012-03-01 23:47:27 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1062 2012-03-01 23:48:20 usergffh has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1063 2012-03-01 23:55:03 booo has quit (Quit: Verlassend)
1064 2012-03-01 23:57:48 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
1065 2012-03-01 23:58:55 Rebroad has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
1066 2012-03-01 23:58:57 Turingi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1067 2012-03-01 23:59:29 jacobwg has joined
1068 2012-03-01 23:59:32 Rebroad has joined
1069 2012-03-01 23:59:45 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)