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  12 2012-03-10 00:36:15 * [Tycho] tried to create a /P2SH/ block
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  31 2012-03-10 01:29:37 <tomoj> suppose I have a queue of transactions with unique ids (where a 'transaction' here is just an id/address/amount tuple corresponding to a bitcoin send I need to make), and my transaction processing code will process each transaction on the queue at least once. how do I make the sends idempotent?
  32 2012-03-10 01:30:57 <tomoj> I could get an exactly once guarantee if it is inconvenient to do idempotent sends in bitcoin
  33 2012-03-10 01:30:59 <[Tycho]> You are talking about already created TXes with known hash ?
  34 2012-03-10 01:31:40 <tomoj> hmm
  35 2012-03-10 01:31:44 BlueMatt has joined
  36 2012-03-10 01:32:02 <tcatm> When using bitcoind's RPC API you can't do that.
  37 2012-03-10 01:32:10 <tomoj> right, figured
  38 2012-03-10 01:32:47 <candlepin> you can publish the same tx many times... it will only be counted once
  39 2012-03-10 01:32:48 <tomoj> I don't understand bitcoin transactions yet, guess I will read the wiki first
  40 2012-03-10 01:32:50 <[Tycho]> Hmm it successfully creates P2SH blocks and sends P2SH TXes but doesn't wants to mine them...
  41 2012-03-10 01:33:19 <candlepin> there can only be one transaction with a particular hash (bip30 notwithstanding)
  42 2012-03-10 01:34:52 <tcatm> Do we have Qt wizards in this channel?
  43 2012-03-10 01:35:16 <tomoj> so the idea is I need to put bitcoin transactions themselves on the queue, then broadcast each at-least-once..
  44 2012-03-10 01:35:46 <candlepin> yeah.. im not sure how the satoshi client, but i assume it sends the tx to a few peers
  45 2012-03-10 01:35:57 <tcatm> Depending on what you want to archieve that might not be ideal as those transactions might depend on each other.
  46 2012-03-10 01:37:04 <tomoj> that is, if one doesn't get in, the later transactions will be invalid?
  47 2012-03-10 01:38:00 <tcatm> Something like that could happen, yes.
  48 2012-03-10 01:39:49 <tomoj> for sendmany, will either all transactions succeed or none?
  49 2012-03-10 01:40:16 <tcatm> That's correct.
  50 2012-03-10 01:40:28 <BlueMatt> its one tx, so all?
  51 2012-03-10 01:40:50 <phantomcircuit> tomoj, how do you get your unique ids
  52 2012-03-10 01:41:16 <tomoj> a 'secure' random number generator
  53 2012-03-10 01:41:29 <phantomcircuit> mind if i ask what you're actually trying to do? :)
  54 2012-03-10 01:41:32 agricocb has joined
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  56 2012-03-10 01:44:06 <tomoj> just thinking about how to scale something like an exchange, no specific goal at the moment
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  60 2012-03-10 01:50:22 <dwon> Does anyone know why blockexplorer shows the height of testnet at 48079, but both bitcoind 0.5.2 and BitCoinJ 0.4 stop at 46722 ?
  61 2012-03-10 01:51:50 <BlueMatt> what version are you on?
  62 2012-03-10 01:51:54 <BlueMatt> oh...
  63 2012-03-10 01:51:59 <BlueMatt>  /smackface
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  65 2012-03-10 01:53:24 <tomoj> my 0.5.2 seems stopped at 47463
  66 2012-03-10 01:53:45 <denisx> I try to call system() from bitcoind, but the compiler says it would be ambiguous
  67 2012-03-10 01:53:49 <denisx> how can that be?
  68 2012-03-10 01:55:11 <BlueMatt> oh, bbe is probably on the new testnet diff rules
  69 2012-03-10 01:55:20 <BlueMatt> you need to upgrade to 0.6rc IIRC
  70 2012-03-10 01:55:35 <BlueMatt> (only for testnet)
  71 2012-03-10 01:56:25 <dwon> Oh.  What changed?
  72 2012-03-10 01:57:06 <BlueMatt> if blocks are taking too long, diff will readjust downward
  73 2012-03-10 01:57:10 <BlueMatt> well, just accept lower diff
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  78 2012-03-10 02:08:54 <dwon> BlueMatt: oh, heh.  That explains it.  Thanks!
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  87 2012-03-10 02:17:28 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
  88 2012-03-10 02:17:29 <gribble> Current Blocks: 170445 | Current Difficulty: 1496978.5950256 | Next Difficulty At Block: 171359 | Next Difficulty In: 914 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 5 hours, 17 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1480510.02841192 | Estimated Percent Change: -1.10012038039
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  95 2012-03-10 02:36:33 Mad7Scientist is now known as Santorum
  96 2012-03-10 02:36:44 <tomoj> what are 'comment' and 'comment-to' for in sendtoaddress?
  97 2012-03-10 02:37:11 Santorum is now known as Mad7Scientist
  98 2012-03-10 02:37:15 <BlueMatt> they are only stored locally in your wallet
  99 2012-03-10 02:37:30 <BlueMatt> (and are dispalyed in qt gui)
 100 2012-03-10 02:39:33 blumenkraft has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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 102 2012-03-10 02:43:06 <tomoj> ah, I see
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 104 2012-03-10 02:45:32 forsetifox has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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 108 2012-03-10 02:56:01 <tcatm> More sidebar work: http://188.138.99.157/stuff/qtvert4.png
 109 2012-03-10 02:56:39 <luke-jr> tcatm: I hope it's optional. I prefer the tabs.
 110 2012-03-10 02:58:01 <BlueMatt> tcatm: o lala
 111 2012-03-10 02:58:09 <BlueMatt> s/o/ooo
 112 2012-03-10 02:58:13 <BlueMatt>  /
 113 2012-03-10 02:59:22 <BlueMatt> tabbed interfaces always feel very wrong to me
 114 2012-03-10 02:59:44 <BlueMatt> just looks like someone put no effort into design and whipped something up real quick when its the main window of a program
 115 2012-03-10 03:05:36 <tcatm> Code is here. It's still messy as I didn't have any Qt experience until yesterday. https://github.com/tcatm/bitcoin/tree/new-gui
 116 2012-03-10 03:06:24 <BlueMatt> the license is an email address?
 117 2012-03-10 03:06:31 <BlueMatt> (for the bg image)
 118 2012-03-10 03:08:47 <tcatm> He's send an email to some devs a few days ago with a mockup. I asked him for the .png but didn't many any licenses yet so I figured it might be best to write down his address for now so we can do that later before merging the branch (should we decide to merge it at all).
 119 2012-03-10 03:09:31 <BlueMatt> oh, ok...ofc the person who mocksup a new ui is a @me.com
 120 2012-03-10 03:10:19 <tcatm> And the mockup looks very OS Xish, too :)
 121 2012-03-10 03:10:50 <BlueMatt> ofc
 122 2012-03-10 03:12:02 <luke-jr> (that's a bad thing… :p)
 123 2012-03-10 03:12:48 <tcatm> My idea is to only change the styles and move things around without removing/adding any features. I.e. his mockup is pretty simple and doesn't support sendmany.
 124 2012-03-10 03:13:07 <BlueMatt> mmm, yea sendmany support is nice
 125 2012-03-10 03:14:34 <tcatm> I'll probably remove the statusbar, move the status icons to the sidebar and the alert message to the central widget.
 126 2012-03-10 03:14:58 Samuel has joined
 127 2012-03-10 03:15:06 <tcatm> hey Samuel
 128 2012-03-10 03:15:12 <Samuel> Hi!
 129 2012-03-10 03:15:32 <Samuel> Great, easy talking now
 130 2012-03-10 03:15:38 <luke-jr> tcatm: so you won't see alerts unless you switch to the main page?
 131 2012-03-10 03:15:44 <BlueMatt> tcatm: /nod except for the alter message, kinda prefer an alert visible on all pages
 132 2012-03-10 03:16:17 <tcatm> It would be visible on all pages. Maybe even with a rounded, yellow box.
 133 2012-03-10 03:16:29 <BlueMatt> ok, thats fine then
 134 2012-03-10 03:16:31 <BlueMatt> sounds good
 135 2012-03-10 03:17:09 Cablesaurus has joined
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 137 2012-03-10 03:17:09 Cablesaurus has joined
 138 2012-03-10 03:17:26 <tcatm> Samuel: Yes, much better than email!
 139 2012-03-10 03:17:26 userttu has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 140 2012-03-10 03:17:44 <BlueMatt> Samuel: the mockup guy?
 141 2012-03-10 03:17:54 <Samuel> tcatm - I was thing that the balance  BTC amount should be left-aligned like the Balance text
 142 2012-03-10 03:17:56 <Samuel> Yes!
 143 2012-03-10 03:18:35 <tcatm> That's probably a good idea. I wonder how and if we should display the unconfirmed balance, too?
 144 2012-03-10 03:18:43 <BlueMatt> na, Id say not
 145 2012-03-10 03:18:49 <Samuel> Where you one of people I emailed about the mockup, Matt?
 146 2012-03-10 03:18:58 <BlueMatt> no
 147 2012-03-10 03:19:09 <Samuel> No, not for the sidebar. Save that for the overveiw tab
 148 2012-03-10 03:19:14 <Samuel> Oh
 149 2012-03-10 03:19:18 booo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 150 2012-03-10 03:19:18 <luke-jr> Samuel: why not mail the whole dev list?
 151 2012-03-10 03:19:33 <BlueMatt> having balance you cant send in the sidebar would be confusing on the send page
 152 2012-03-10 03:19:43 <Samuel> I only emailed the people under developer on bitcoin.org
 153 2012-03-10 03:19:51 paraipan has joined
 154 2012-03-10 03:19:53 <luke-jr> Samuel: that list is pretty arbitrary
 155 2012-03-10 03:20:10 <Samuel> oh...
 156 2012-03-10 03:21:03 <Samuel> SHould I email more people?
 157 2012-03-10 03:21:18 <BlueMatt> meh, we have code now
 158 2012-03-10 03:21:24 da2ce7 has joined
 159 2012-03-10 03:21:33 <Samuel> Ok
 160 2012-03-10 03:22:00 Jamesz has joined
 161 2012-03-10 03:22:05 <luke-jr> Samuel: FWIW, I'm probably going to end up a critic. I prefer the current (normal) UI.
 162 2012-03-10 03:22:46 <Samuel> Hmm... what is it you don't like about my mockup?
 163 2012-03-10 03:23:07 <tcatm> I'm currently fighting with Qt. It does strange things when resizing the window...
 164 2012-03-10 03:23:17 <luke-jr> tabs on the left that don't look like tabs, and high contrast
 165 2012-03-10 03:23:22 <Graet> I like to see my unconfirmed balance
 166 2012-03-10 03:23:36 <luke-jr> pretty much anything that makes it look different from other normal apps
 167 2012-03-10 03:23:43 <tcatm> http://188.138.99.157/stuff/qtvert4_strange.png
 168 2012-03-10 03:23:58 <BlueMatt>  /nod on the high contrast thing, maybe slightly brighter sidebar color?
 169 2012-03-10 03:24:25 * luke-jr sees no reason to hard code colours rather than use the OS-provided scheme
 170 2012-03-10 03:25:12 <Samuel> Maybe, but I like the dark noise background, but maybe a lighter background would look good too, but may look to similar to the right side of the app
 171 2012-03-10 03:25:15 <tcatm> Some OS defaults are just ugly.
 172 2012-03-10 03:25:23 <Samuel> Yeah
 173 2012-03-10 03:25:25 <luke-jr> tcatm: so then use another OS, or customize them…
 174 2012-03-10 03:25:43 <tcatm> That's what I do ;)
 175 2012-03-10 03:25:48 <luke-jr> most OS let you choose your colours
 176 2012-03-10 03:25:48 <BlueMatt> s/Some/Many/
 177 2012-03-10 03:25:57 <BlueMatt> most people dont bother
 178 2012-03-10 03:26:01 <BlueMatt> 99.9% of people dont care
 179 2012-03-10 03:26:05 <tcatm> But yeah, it should pick up user preferences wherever possible.
 180 2012-03-10 03:26:13 <Samuel> My inspiration for the design was the Twitter app for Mac
 181 2012-03-10 03:26:15 <tcatm> I.e. for highlight colors.
 182 2012-03-10 03:26:27 <luke-jr> Samuel: most people don't care for Mac
 183 2012-03-10 03:26:50 <BlueMatt> I wouldnt say that
 184 2012-03-10 03:27:06 <Samuel> Well, I was just talking about the Twitter app but I disagree
 185 2012-03-10 03:27:10 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: how many people use Safari for Windows?
 186 2012-03-10 03:27:34 <luke-jr> (I didn't choose iTunes as an example, because iTunes forces itself on iPod users)
 187 2012-03-10 03:27:35 <BlueMatt> how many people use ie:mac?
 188 2012-03-10 03:27:36 <Samuel> Mac is a growing platform, and I'm a designer so its the industry standard
 189 2012-03-10 03:28:00 <BlueMatt> ok, how many people used ie:mac when it was competing with safari and was actively developed
 190 2012-03-10 03:28:01 <tcatm> What about something like this? http://cdn.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/screen-shot-2011-11-11-at-09.42.54-500x342.jpg
 191 2012-03-10 03:28:05 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: ie:mac didn't force Windows semantics on Mac ;p
 192 2012-03-10 03:28:26 <tcatm> White sidebar, white content background.
 193 2012-03-10 03:28:50 <Samuel> It could work.
 194 2012-03-10 03:28:51 * luke-jr hates apps that don't comply with his OS styles. :p
 195 2012-03-10 03:28:52 <tcatm> When using a treeview for the sidebar we *could* add accounts to it later.
 196 2012-03-10 03:29:10 * tcatm hates apps that refuse to work with his window manager :P
 197 2012-03-10 03:29:37 * BlueMatt hates app design
 198 2012-03-10 03:29:49 <tcatm> Or apps that do not pick up my terminal's colors ;)
 199 2012-03-10 03:30:04 <BlueMatt> or apps that use terminal colors
 200 2012-03-10 03:30:50 <tcatm> Though, for Bitcoin it might be a good idea to have a consistent default look across all platforms to make it feel more stable and dependable.
 201 2012-03-10 03:31:30 <BlueMatt>  /nod
 202 2012-03-10 03:32:13 <Samuel> Yes, consistency is key.
 203 2012-03-10 03:32:27 <luke-jr> tcatm: out of place, you mean :p
 204 2012-03-10 03:32:38 <luke-jr> consistent across platforms = foreign to all (but one, at most)
 205 2012-03-10 03:32:47 <tcatm> A little out of place to make it stand out maybe.
 206 2012-03-10 03:32:52 <luke-jr> consistent *with* each platform, is what's important
 207 2012-03-10 03:33:03 <rasengan> true
 208 2012-03-10 03:33:04 <Samuel> Yep
 209 2012-03-10 03:33:47 <andytoshi> allow me to step in here, and say do NOT override OS styles
 210 2012-03-10 03:34:01 <andytoshi> that is irritating and unprofessional and idiotic
 211 2012-03-10 03:34:23 * andytoshi just came back from playing DOOM for three hours..
 212 2012-03-10 03:34:34 * BlueMatt has been playing me3 for days
 213 2012-03-10 03:35:00 <forsetifox> Ending is pretty good.
 214 2012-03-10 03:35:15 Karmaon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 215 2012-03-10 03:35:24 * BlueMatt is still playing multiplayer to get the 5000 ending
 216 2012-03-10 03:36:39 <luke-jr> anyone want to play freeciv or glob2?
 217 2012-03-10 03:37:35 <tcatm> Some apps have a setting to switch between OS style and custom style. I think we could do that, too.
 218 2012-03-10 03:37:46 <BlueMatt> that sounds like too much work...
 219 2012-03-10 03:38:03 <Samuel> Lets go with just one look
 220 2012-03-10 03:38:18 <luke-jr> Samuel: then let's stick with the current one. -.-
 221 2012-03-10 03:38:27 <tcatm> Changing styles with Qt is as simple as calling this->setStyle(foo)
 222 2012-03-10 03:38:54 <Samuel> The current one definitely works, I just think it could be more intuitive with a better design
 223 2012-03-10 03:39:11 <BlueMatt> yea, but I find apps that do the switching based on settings...wrong?
 224 2012-03-10 03:39:13 <luke-jr> maybe. I just think the proposed one is far worse :p
 225 2012-03-10 03:39:45 <tcatm> luke-jr: Did you even see the mockup?
 226 2012-03-10 03:40:08 <tcatm> Not my screenshots. I'm just trying to learn Qt and move the tabs to the left.
 227 2012-03-10 03:40:35 <luke-jr> tcatm: I saw your screenshots.
 228 2012-03-10 03:40:42 <luke-jr> he didn't send the mockup to the ML
 229 2012-03-10 03:41:01 <Samuel> ML? What would that stand for?
 230 2012-03-10 03:41:07 <BlueMatt> mailing list
 231 2012-03-10 03:41:07 <tcatm> Mailinglist
 232 2012-03-10 03:41:09 <andytoshi> mailing list
 233 2012-03-10 03:41:23 <Samuel> ohh, I see I'll get you a link
 234 2012-03-10 03:41:41 <Samuel> http://cl.ly/083F1I1e0A0k40160K44
 235 2012-03-10 03:42:16 <luke-jr> …
 236 2012-03-10 03:42:20 <Samuel> We have decided to drop the converter and drop the "My Address" thing
 237 2012-03-10 03:42:23 <luke-jr> maybe for a separate client
 238 2012-03-10 03:42:57 <luke-jr> that's basically a totally different target user IMO
 239 2012-03-10 03:43:24 <andytoshi> i agree with that statement -- it's pretty, but i'd never use it
 240 2012-03-10 03:44:39 SomeoneWeird has joined
 241 2012-03-10 03:44:40 SomeoneWeird has quit (Changing host)
 242 2012-03-10 03:44:40 SomeoneWeird has joined
 243 2012-03-10 03:44:56 <Samuel> I guess your right, it leans towards a new user. But who said a geek's software had to be all plain gray and boring?
 244 2012-03-10 03:45:40 <Samuel> SomeoneWeird... your name sounds familiar. Are you on a bitcoin forum?
 245 2012-03-10 03:45:41 <andytoshi> nobody, but the core devs here want -their- software to be plain and boring ;)
 246 2012-03-10 03:45:48 <luke-jr> lol
 247 2012-03-10 03:45:51 <SomeoneWeird> Samuel, yeah...
 248 2012-03-10 03:46:00 <Samuel> Nice
 249 2012-03-10 03:46:03 <SomeoneWeird> lol
 250 2012-03-10 03:46:39 <tcatm> Maybe we could start with thinking about what a user wants to do in each tab.
 251 2012-03-10 03:46:41 <Samuel> Well, maybe the layout should just be "re-organized" instead of "redeisgned"
 252 2012-03-10 03:47:00 <luke-jr> I like the current organization with FIRST_CLASS_MESSAGING <.<
 253 2012-03-10 03:47:31 <Samuel> I'm not sure that I understand what you mean
 254 2012-03-10 03:47:43 <tcatm> Me? Or luke-jr?
 255 2012-03-10 03:47:48 <Samuel> Luke
 256 2012-03-10 03:48:04 <luke-jr> I'm not sure I can explain it clearer.
 257 2012-03-10 03:48:26 <andytoshi> i think he just wants a definition for FIRST_CLASS_MESSAGING
 258 2012-03-10 03:48:32 <Samuel> Yes
 259 2012-03-10 03:48:43 <luke-jr> qmake FIRST_CLASS_MESSAGING=1
 260 2012-03-10 03:48:52 <luke-jr> puts Sign Message in the tab bar
 261 2012-03-10 03:49:10 <tcatm> One thing I'd like to change are all those copy&paste buttons scattered across the current GUI. An Edit Menu should work much better.
 262 2012-03-10 03:49:42 <luke-jr> excellent idea
 263 2012-03-10 03:49:43 <BlueMatt> has anyone talked to laanjw about all this?
 264 2012-03-10 03:50:15 <tcatm> I think he responded to the email.
 265 2012-03-10 03:50:21 <Samuel> That would be good. We can get rid of the buttons, maybe if you hover over an address a "copy" tooltip would popup
 266 2012-03-10 03:50:27 [7] has quit (Disconnected by services)
 267 2012-03-10 03:50:39 TheSeven has joined
 268 2012-03-10 03:50:40 <luke-jr> … >_<
 269 2012-03-10 03:50:44 <tcatm> Why not rely on basic OS defaults for copy&paste?
 270 2012-03-10 03:51:10 <tcatm> Linux users would then use middle click, Windows ctrl-v and OSX cmd-v (or whatever it is).
 271 2012-03-10 03:51:32 <Samuel> Who is laanjw? I got responses from  tcatm and Wladimir
 272 2012-03-10 03:51:45 <luke-jr> Wladimir/laanjw/wumpus
 273 2012-03-10 03:52:12 <Samuel> umm ok. I'm new to the whole Bitcoin community so yeah
 274 2012-03-10 03:53:14 <BlueMatt> yea, the whole 3 nick thing throws me...
 275 2012-03-10 03:53:55 Jamesz has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 276 2012-03-10 03:54:06 * tcatm creates a new org-mode document
 277 2012-03-10 03:54:22 <tcatm> What would a user want to do on the Overview tab?
 278 2012-03-10 03:54:22 <Samuel> I also came up with this deisgn (before the one I showed you guys) but I don't like it http://cl.ly/2Y3N3t2l1m2x1j05271n
 279 2012-03-10 03:55:25 <tcatm> Not too bad either, but I think horizontal tabs should use Icons instead of text. When using text, vertical tabs are easier to read.
 280 2012-03-10 03:55:37 <Samuel> tcatm: see an overveiw of their bitcoins, maybe a few recent transaction notifications, and possibly a graph of their Bitcoins
 281 2012-03-10 03:56:46 <Samuel> I like the other one with the sidebar more though
 282 2012-03-10 03:59:18 <Samuel> Be back soon.
 283 2012-03-10 04:00:39 <tcatm> What about a little network Status. Like "You are well connected to the bitcoin network" or "It looks like there are some problems. Try $this or $that"?
 284 2012-03-10 04:02:46 <andytoshi> off-topic: has anyone here tried working with ldc2 (a D compiler)
 285 2012-03-10 04:02:52 <andytoshi> and gotten the error "Both operands to a binary operator are not of the same type!"
 286 2012-03-10 04:03:02 <andytoshi> it's an assembler error -- it's the compiler that's broken
 287 2012-03-10 04:03:17 <tcatm> Woah, that's very offtopic!
 288 2012-03-10 04:03:42 * sipa is drunk
 289 2012-03-10 04:03:49 <andytoshi> just checking.. carry on your real conversation
 290 2012-03-10 04:04:00 <dwon> Anyone know is there anything in the output of "bitcoind listtransactions" that indicates if a transaction is a double-spend?
 291 2012-03-10 04:04:18 <BlueMatt> andytoshi: is there no #D ?
 292 2012-03-10 04:04:36 <andytoshi> heey, there is, thanks
 293 2012-03-10 04:04:59 <BlueMatt> sipa: what else would you be on a saturday at 5am?
 294 2012-03-10 04:05:00 <tcatm> We could also show the last backup time of the wallet. Or whether the last backup is still sufficient to restore all coins.
 295 2012-03-10 04:05:05 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 296 2012-03-10 04:05:06 <Samuel> I'm back
 297 2012-03-10 04:05:29 <BlueMatt> tcatm: yea, when we implement auto-backup...
 298 2012-03-10 04:05:30 <Samuel> tcatm: Time since last backup would be great
 299 2012-03-10 04:05:35 oPen_syLar has quit (Quit: https://github.com/oPensyLar)
 300 2012-03-10 04:05:46 <BlueMatt> tcatm: Id say first focus on the ui itself before we start adding new features...
 301 2012-03-10 04:07:14 sacarlson has joined
 302 2012-03-10 04:07:35 <sipa> BlueMatt: often, not drunk, and awake
 303 2012-03-10 04:07:42 Karmaon has joined
 304 2012-03-10 04:08:16 stalled has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 305 2012-03-10 04:08:18 <tcatm> BlueMatt: I don't want to add them yet. Just have an idea what each tabs purpose will be someday.
 306 2012-03-10 04:09:21 <tcatm> Recent transactions could show transactions that have occured since the client was last started instead of latest 3.
 307 2012-03-10 04:09:22 <BlueMatt> tcatm: meh, we have that day to consider the tabs purpose
 308 2012-03-10 04:09:32 <BlueMatt> sipa: meh...
 309 2012-03-10 04:10:01 <tcatm> Sure, but if we add too much to the overview tab now there won't be any space for that kind of information.
 310 2012-03-10 04:13:25 <Samuel> Yeah, could be too much. I allways think of an overview pannel like a dashboard where you see a little bit of all information
 311 2012-03-10 04:13:55 <tcatm> Not just "a little bit" but the information you most likely want to see.
 312 2012-03-10 04:14:05 <Samuel> and then then the tabs would go more into more detail
 313 2012-03-10 04:14:08 <Samuel> Yes
 314 2012-03-10 04:16:25 <sipa> BlueMatt: Inaba told me his pool recent mined block 170411, with mostly git head code
 315 2012-03-10 04:17:27 <sipa> BlueMatt: have a look at its coinbase tx: https://blockchain.info/tx-index/3201764/167e38edcec40ccef73e30fb36b7606becf7f3904ada992e6a066dd12a25dbdd
 316 2012-03-10 04:17:29 <tcatm> I'd like to switch form labeling adresses to labeling transactions and remove the address book, too.
 317 2012-03-10 04:17:31 <sipa> it's garbage
 318 2012-03-10 04:18:09 <BlueMatt> anyone else mine on git head?
 319 2012-03-10 04:18:12 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: maybe
 320 2012-03-10 04:18:28 <sipa> you can see the timestamp (04737c5a4f), the extranonce (0104), and 44 bytes of weird looking shit 2c4d4d3d3db346b703e4e0b55c3938850067c850f3102eb576d52c8e2ebbd973607c008e560100000000000000
 321 2012-03-10 04:18:41 <Samuel> I don't know what that is... I'm a newbie...
 322 2012-03-10 04:18:51 <sipa> instead of the garbage, there should be /P2SH/
 323 2012-03-10 04:18:55 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: wonked.
 324 2012-03-10 04:19:11 <gmaxwell> I mine on git head, w/ getmemorypool however.
 325 2012-03-10 04:19:18 <sipa> I've asked him to send me the full code he's using
 326 2012-03-10 04:19:32 <gmaxwell> that particular thing isn't git head either though..
 327 2012-03-10 04:19:39 <gmaxwell> "MM=="
 328 2012-03-10 04:19:50 <sipa> yes, there are mm patches
 329 2012-03-10 04:20:07 <sipa> maybe those interfered with the COINBASE_FLAGS handling
 330 2012-03-10 04:20:10 <gmaxwell> it's either MM interaction or a getmemorypool miner that parses the flags wrong.
 331 2012-03-10 04:20:21 <sipa> i'll check it out when i get his full code
 332 2012-03-10 04:21:01 <gmaxwell> I'm concerned with the inability to reorg that jrmithdobbs reported— at least one (and probably two) other person(s) have reported it. I've been trying to reproduce it but can't.
 333 2012-03-10 04:21:14 <sipa> gmaxwell: me too
 334 2012-03-10 04:21:36 <sipa> wasn't there some reported issue with having a stuck blockchain database that was never resolved?
 335 2012-03-10 04:21:51 <gmaxwell> In particular, there is a potential class of bug we may be exposed to: what if there are BDB bugs that only show up at high scale. Can't see it on testnet, ..and it could cause a split.
 336 2012-03-10 04:21:53 <sipa> if you would have downloaded the latest block, but not connected it to the best chain
 337 2012-03-10 04:21:56 forsetifox has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 338 2012-03-10 04:22:03 <Diablo-D3> man
 339 2012-03-10 04:22:10 <Diablo-D3> that asus directcu II
 340 2012-03-10 04:22:11 <tcatm> sipa: Stuck blockchain? I think I have a coredump of such a thing somewhere...
 341 2012-03-10 04:22:19 <Diablo-D3> that would never fit in my case ;_;
 342 2012-03-10 04:22:27 <gmaxwell> I tried recreating it here by taking the real chain, modifying bitcoin to tolerate diff 1, then making reorgs on top of it.. but no luck.
 343 2012-03-10 04:22:31 Joric has joined
 344 2012-03-10 04:22:31 Joric has quit (Changing host)
 345 2012-03-10 04:22:31 Joric has joined
 346 2012-03-10 04:22:44 <Diablo-D3> AND WHY THE FUCK ARE ALL THE 7970S STILL OUT OF STOCK EXCEPT THE SHIT ONES
 347 2012-03-10 04:22:53 <Joric> etotheipi_, are you here?
 348 2012-03-10 04:22:59 <sipa> Diablo-D3: it's a sign of god
 349 2012-03-10 04:23:04 <sipa> "mine FPGA..."
 350 2012-03-10 04:23:14 <Diablo-D3> I mean, AMD completed their end of the deal here
 351 2012-03-10 04:23:16 <Diablo-D3> 12.2 is out
 352 2012-03-10 04:23:21 <Diablo-D3> its verified to work without -na
 353 2012-03-10 04:23:25 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: i'm an ass for not having made a snapshot of that
 354 2012-03-10 04:23:34 <jrmithdobbs> didn't even think about it at the time
 355 2012-03-10 04:23:34 <andytoshi> the other day my bitcoind had gone into safemode
 356 2012-03-10 04:23:42 <andytoshi> because it thought the last few hundred blocks were invalid
 357 2012-03-10 04:23:50 <sipa> andytoshi: did it stick there?
 358 2012-03-10 04:23:57 <andytoshi> yep
 359 2012-03-10 04:23:57 <gmaxwell> andytoshi: I'm assuming you were on rc1.
 360 2012-03-10 04:24:00 <sipa> or did it at some point did find the real chain
 361 2012-03-10 04:24:03 <Diablo-D3> okay so guys
 362 2012-03-10 04:24:04 <andytoshi> nope, git head
 363 2012-03-10 04:24:04 <Diablo-D3> the ref design
 364 2012-03-10 04:24:12 <gmaxwell> andytoshi: git head as of when?
 365 2012-03-10 04:24:14 <Diablo-D3> it sucks air in through the fan, and all of that air exits the case?
 366 2012-03-10 04:24:19 <andytoshi> it got stuck on feb 19 git head, and when i upgraded to mar 8, it was still stuck
 367 2012-03-10 04:24:28 <jrmithdobbs> andytoshi: do you still have the broken blockchain/index?
 368 2012-03-10 04:24:28 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: wait, WAT?
 369 2012-03-10 04:24:30 <gmaxwell> andytoshi: what unstuck it?
 370 2012-03-10 04:24:38 <Diablo-D3> blueMatt: what
 371 2012-03-10 04:24:43 <andytoshi> jrmithdobbs: yes, i have a copy of the blockchain
 372 2012-03-10 04:24:47 <Diablo-D3> Im trying to figure out how one fan at the end is supposed to work
 373 2012-03-10 04:24:51 <Diablo-D3> Ive never owned a ref card
 374 2012-03-10 04:24:54 <andytoshi> it unstuck when i moved it out of the way and redownloaded the whole thing
 375 2012-03-10 04:24:55 <jrmithdobbs> andytoshi: both blk001.dat and blkindex.dat?
 376 2012-03-10 04:24:58 <andytoshi> yes
 377 2012-03-10 04:25:00 <tcatm> I have this in my debug.log: ERROR: ConnectInputs() : 6a26d2ecb6 VerifySignature failed
 378 2012-03-10 04:25:11 <jrmithdobbs> andytoshi: can you compress and get that somewhere we can get to it?
 379 2012-03-10 04:25:13 <tcatm> After that it rejected all following blocks.
 380 2012-03-10 04:25:29 <jrmithdobbs> andytoshi: i did get it to continue and do a proper reorg
 381 2012-03-10 04:25:34 <andytoshi> jrmithdobbs: sure, i'll get on that
 382 2012-03-10 04:25:36 <jrmithdobbs> andytoshi: but not in a good way.
 383 2012-03-10 04:26:17 <tcatm> http://blockexplorer.com/t/52KGag5X7c
 384 2012-03-10 04:26:18 <andytoshi> i'm compressing it now, i'll throw it on my webserver when it's done..
 385 2012-03-10 04:26:43 <Graet> ref coolers have a fan in one end and a shroud that exhausts hot air out back of case
 386 2012-03-10 04:26:44 <Diablo-D3> hey guys
 387 2012-03-10 04:26:52 <Diablo-D3> Graet: okay good, thats what I thought
 388 2012-03-10 04:26:56 <Graet> :)
 389 2012-03-10 04:26:58 <Diablo-D3> whats that other brand of fan that doesnt suck
 390 2012-03-10 04:27:10 stalled has joined
 391 2012-03-10 04:27:11 <Diablo-D3> not delta afb1212 but the other one
 392 2012-03-10 04:27:24 <Graet> dunno - i dont use ref cards
 393 2012-03-10 04:27:33 <Graet> i like my 3 fan gigabytes
 394 2012-03-10 04:27:51 <Diablo-D3> yeah I never seem to buy ref cards either
 395 2012-03-10 04:27:54 <Graet> but they dont exhaust from case, just fill it with hot air
 396 2012-03-10 04:28:09 <Graet> but then i dont use cases lol
 397 2012-03-10 04:28:17 <Diablo-D3> heh, mine exhausts out of the case no matter what
 398 2012-03-10 04:28:26 <Diablo-D3> positive pressure air cooling
 399 2012-03-10 04:28:32 <Diablo-D3> it exits the case no matter if it wants to or not
 400 2012-03-10 04:28:38 <Graet> heh
 401 2012-03-10 04:29:09 <Graet> but the non ref circulate that hot air back thru the case, where ref pump it straigh out ;)
 402 2012-03-10 04:29:15 <Samuel>  I got to go. (I don't even understand all this mining stuff anyway.) See ya guys later!
 403 2012-03-10 04:29:22 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 404 2012-03-10 04:29:37 <andytoshi> seeya, have fun with your designs :)
 405 2012-03-10 04:29:50 <Samuel> yeah...
 406 2012-03-10 04:29:51 <Samuel> ok
 407 2012-03-10 04:30:09 Samuel has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 408 2012-03-10 04:31:06 forsetifox has joined
 409 2012-03-10 04:35:46 Jamesz has joined
 410 2012-03-10 04:42:01 <Diablo-D3> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127652
 411 2012-03-10 04:42:06 <Diablo-D3> I guess this is my only option
 412 2012-03-10 04:44:20 MrTiggr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 413 2012-03-10 04:44:21 <Diablo-D3> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150591
 414 2012-03-10 04:44:23 <Diablo-D3> I missed that
 415 2012-03-10 04:45:17 <[Tycho]> Just one DVI connector :
 416 2012-03-10 04:45:18 <[Tycho]> (
 417 2012-03-10 04:45:33 <Diablo-D3> who cares, only need one
 418 2012-03-10 04:46:17 MrTiggr has joined
 419 2012-03-10 04:46:47 <Diablo-D3> goddamnit those jews
 420 2012-03-10 04:47:00 <forsetifox> >.>
 421 2012-03-10 04:47:07 <Diablo-D3> xfx's doesnt come with a 6->8 adapter
 422 2012-03-10 04:47:17 <Jamesz> HAH
 423 2012-03-10 04:47:21 <Jamesz> fucking 570 bucks
 424 2012-03-10 04:47:22 <Jamesz> lol
 425 2012-03-10 04:47:37 <Jamesz> what an outrageous price for a graphic card.
 426 2012-03-10 04:47:50 <Jamesz> one that isnt for rendering or anything other than playing games.
 427 2012-03-10 04:47:55 <Jamesz> or bitcoin mining
 428 2012-03-10 04:48:25 <Diablo-D3> Jamesz: well
 429 2012-03-10 04:48:30 <Diablo-D3> the community has decreed
 430 2012-03-10 04:48:32 <Diablo-D3> that I must have one
 431 2012-03-10 04:48:35 <Jamesz> lol
 432 2012-03-10 04:48:42 <Jamesz> for coding/
 433 2012-03-10 04:48:44 <Jamesz> ?
 434 2012-03-10 04:48:47 <Diablo-D3> FOR CODING!
 435 2012-03-10 04:48:52 <Jamesz> or whatever
 436 2012-03-10 04:49:01 <Jamesz> making something that works efficiently on it
 437 2012-03-10 04:49:06 <Jamesz> so that more people can reason to buy one
 438 2012-03-10 04:49:08 <Diablo-D3> that was the plan, yes.
 439 2012-03-10 04:49:10 abracadabra has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 440 2012-03-10 04:49:16 <Jamesz> and then bitch when nvidia releases their cards
 441 2012-03-10 04:49:22 <Jamesz> and the 7970's drop to 400
 442 2012-03-10 04:49:25 <Diablo-D3> man
 443 2012-03-10 04:49:28 <Jamesz> because they'll have to
 444 2012-03-10 04:49:29 <Jamesz> or lower
 445 2012-03-10 04:49:31 <Diablo-D3> I should just order the community to send me like
 446 2012-03-10 04:49:32 <Jamesz> probably 350
 447 2012-03-10 04:49:36 <Diablo-D3> 25 btc
 448 2012-03-10 04:49:38 abracadabra has joined
 449 2012-03-10 04:49:39 abracadabra has quit (Changing host)
 450 2012-03-10 04:49:39 abracadabra has joined
 451 2012-03-10 04:49:44 <Jamesz> i could send you 25btc
 452 2012-03-10 04:49:47 <Jamesz> but then i'd be broke.
 453 2012-03-10 04:49:51 <Jamesz> in terms of btc.
 454 2012-03-10 04:49:58 <Diablo-D3> well its not like you're using them
 455 2012-03-10 04:50:02 <Jamesz> as i only have 34.5
 456 2012-03-10 04:50:09 <Jamesz> no but i'd like to
 457 2012-03-10 04:50:11 <Jamesz> eventually
 458 2012-03-10 04:50:51 <[Tycho]> luke-jr:
 459 2012-03-10 04:50:56 <luke-jr> .
 460 2012-03-10 04:51:13 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: 9ab59e2d4be16c470160eb9b9a9d9799eaf29af0461aea131e748659d806fa1a
 461 2012-03-10 04:51:44 <luke-jr> I have it, but not accepted.
 462 2012-03-10 04:52:04 <[Tycho]> Dendrograms on blockchain.info detect this as version 0 address :)
 463 2012-03-10 04:52:15 ThomasV has joined
 464 2012-03-10 04:52:23 <Diablo-D3> Jamesz: I had to sell my last 10 btc to get this card
 465 2012-03-10 04:52:43 <Diablo-D3> because rapidly falling BTC prices wiped out like 15% of the donations
 466 2012-03-10 04:52:45 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: so can you redeem that ? :)
 467 2012-03-10 04:52:53 <Jamesz> lol
 468 2012-03-10 04:52:58 <Jamesz> whats btc at now
 469 2012-03-10 04:53:04 <Diablo-D3> a little below $5
 470 2012-03-10 04:53:09 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: maybe if I cared to take the time
 471 2012-03-10 04:53:13 <Jamesz> eh, thats not bad
 472 2012-03-10 04:53:25 <Jamesz> i'm gonna keep grinding till the difficulty goes up one or two more times
 473 2012-03-10 04:53:26 <Diablo-D3> it was above $6 at the time
 474 2012-03-10 04:53:39 <Jamesz> it was almost 7 at one time
 475 2012-03-10 04:53:56 <luke-jr> 30*
 476 2012-03-10 04:54:00 <Diablo-D3> dude it was over $31 at one point
 477 2012-03-10 04:54:12 <Jamesz> i mean recently
 478 2012-03-10 04:54:30 <Diablo-D3> I mean, seriously, what the fuck is this shit
 479 2012-03-10 04:54:34 <Diablo-D3> all the cards I want to buy
 480 2012-03-10 04:54:36 <Diablo-D3> are out of stock
 481 2012-03-10 04:54:40 <Diablo-D3> all the nice and cheap ones
 482 2012-03-10 04:54:49 <Jamesz> you try um...
 483 2012-03-10 04:54:53 <Jamesz> tigerdirect?
 484 2012-03-10 04:55:11 forsetifox has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 485 2012-03-10 04:55:29 <Diablo-D3> I will never EVER buy from them
 486 2012-03-10 04:55:34 <Jamesz> why
 487 2012-03-10 04:55:41 <Diablo-D3> because they constantly fuck up orders
 488 2012-03-10 04:58:11 <Jamesz> http://www.jr.com/xfx/pe/XFX_FX797ATNFC/
 489 2012-03-10 05:00:14 <Diablo-D3> http://www.provantage.com/xfx-fx797atnbc~7PINE0QK.htm
 490 2012-03-10 05:02:05 <Diablo-D3> meh, the fucked up part is, I can get 7950s
 491 2012-03-10 05:02:35 <Jamesz> why not just get a 7950
 492 2012-03-10 05:02:41 <Jamesz> or make a post somewhere asking for donations
 493 2012-03-10 05:03:16 <Diablo-D3> dude, I already DID a post asking for donations
 494 2012-03-10 05:03:22 <Diablo-D3> I ended up with almost enough to buy a 7970
 495 2012-03-10 05:04:10 <Jamesz> how much are you short
 496 2012-03-10 05:04:26 _sgstair has joined
 497 2012-03-10 05:04:26 sgstair has quit (Disconnected by services)
 498 2012-03-10 05:04:27 _sgstair is now known as sgstair
 499 2012-03-10 05:05:00 <Diablo-D3> hrm, roughly 10 btcs worth I think
 500 2012-03-10 05:06:08 <Jamesz> well i suppose i could donate 13btc
 501 2012-03-10 05:06:21 <Jamesz> thats about what
 502 2012-03-10 05:06:27 <Jamesz> 52/60usd?
 503 2012-03-10 05:06:37 <Diablo-D3> something like that
 504 2012-03-10 05:06:41 <Diablo-D3> 1DbeWKCxnVCt3sRaSAmZLoboqr8pVyFzP1
 505 2012-03-10 05:06:51 <Diablo-D3> its enough that I can replace my case's front fan too
 506 2012-03-10 05:06:56 <Diablo-D3> which is clicking and wont shut up
 507 2012-03-10 05:07:01 <Diablo-D3> just die already
 508 2012-03-10 05:07:52 <Jamesz> sent 14
 509 2012-03-10 05:08:05 forsetifox has joined
 510 2012-03-10 05:08:39 <Jamesz> you receive?
 511 2012-03-10 05:09:18 <Diablo-D3> yeah I saw the tx
 512 2012-03-10 05:09:21 <Diablo-D3> thanks
 513 2012-03-10 05:09:25 <Jamesz> yep
 514 2012-03-10 05:10:46 <Diablo-D3> actually, I wonder if its the gpu fan thats clicking
 515 2012-03-10 05:11:07 <Diablo-D3> I hope not
 516 2012-03-10 05:11:11 <Diablo-D3> I wanted to sell this thing
 517 2012-03-10 05:16:09 <Jamesz> lol
 518 2012-03-10 05:16:13 <Jamesz> buy a fan on ebay
 519 2012-03-10 05:16:17 <Jamesz> all over on there
 520 2012-03-10 05:17:41 <Diablo-D3> no, going to get a delta afb1212hhe
 521 2012-03-10 05:17:48 <Diablo-D3> superior cooling is superior
 522 2012-03-10 05:18:10 <Jamesz> lol
 523 2012-03-10 05:20:15 minimoose has joined
 524 2012-03-10 05:21:54 <Joric> http://bitsutoa.com is it really 'a better way to manager your bitcoin transactions'? i doubt so :D
 525 2012-03-10 05:22:07 <tomoj> with the original client, if you want to share your block data across multiple datadirs, what do you need to symlink in? blk0001.dat, blkindex.dat..
 526 2012-03-10 05:22:16 <tomoj> database/ and __db* ?
 527 2012-03-10 05:22:22 <Jamesz> so diablo
 528 2012-03-10 05:22:24 <Jamesz> did yah buy it yet
 529 2012-03-10 05:22:25 <Jamesz> lol
 530 2012-03-10 05:22:37 <Diablo-D3> lol no
 531 2012-03-10 05:22:44 <Jamesz> i just bought a new mobo and mem
 532 2012-03-10 05:22:50 <Jamesz> msi big bang
 533 2012-03-10 05:23:04 <Jamesz> and i'm replacing my geil mem
 534 2012-03-10 05:23:04 <Diablo-D3> I have to wait for the tx to actually enter a block, for one
 535 2012-03-10 05:23:08 <Diablo-D3> and then wait an hour for that
 536 2012-03-10 05:23:09 <Jamesz> ahh
 537 2012-03-10 05:23:17 <Diablo-D3> then send it to mtgox
 538 2012-03-10 05:23:20 <Diablo-D3> and wait an hour for that
 539 2012-03-10 05:23:21 <Diablo-D3> then sell it
 540 2012-03-10 05:23:24 <Diablo-D3> THEN
 541 2012-03-10 05:23:25 <Jamesz> lol yeesh
 542 2012-03-10 05:23:27 <Diablo-D3> wait 23q05498230523509 days
 543 2012-03-10 05:23:28 <Diablo-D3> for
 544 2012-03-10 05:23:30 <Diablo-D3> dwolla to send it to me
 545 2012-03-10 05:23:38 <Jamesz> that sucks
 546 2012-03-10 05:23:47 <Jamesz> i could buy a 7970 in cash right now.
 547 2012-03-10 05:23:51 <Jamesz> lol
 548 2012-03-10 05:23:52 <Diablo-D3> so sometime in 2013
 549 2012-03-10 05:23:53 <sipa> tomoj: only blkindex.dat and blk0001.dat
 550 2012-03-10 05:23:57 <Diablo-D3> I will have what I want
 551 2012-03-10 05:24:06 <Jamesz> and when my tax return comes in
 552 2012-03-10 05:24:08 <sipa> tomoj: and don't run two bitcoind's simultaneously
 553 2012-03-10 05:24:10 <Joric> tomoj, blk0001.dat is just a binary concatenation of blocks, blkindex.dat is blk0001.dat index by transactions, you need both
 554 2012-03-10 05:24:15 <tomoj> thanks
 555 2012-03-10 05:24:24 <Jamesz> which is supposed to be in the neighborhood of 3600
 556 2012-03-10 05:24:33 <Jamesz> not too bad, but not too much
 557 2012-03-10 05:24:39 <Jamesz> i make about 2100/mo though
 558 2012-03-10 05:24:47 <Diablo-D3> Jamesz: heh
 559 2012-03-10 05:24:50 <Jamesz> wish i made more
 560 2012-03-10 05:25:15 <Jamesz> hopefully i can score a job paying 16/hr when i finish my second year of school
 561 2012-03-10 05:25:27 <Jamesz> and then move to milwaukee
 562 2012-03-10 05:25:35 <Jamesz> and take online courses for mechanical engineering
 563 2012-03-10 05:25:41 <Jamesz> mmmmm mechanical engineering
 564 2012-03-10 05:26:09 <Jamesz> i sit at work(where i am now), while i'm doing mindless labor
 565 2012-03-10 05:26:17 <tomoj> hmm, I get this error https://gist.github.com/838e85b66942b33b5d43
 566 2012-03-10 05:26:23 <Jamesz> thinking of ways to automate the way i'm doing something
 567 2012-03-10 05:26:24 <Joric> sipa, right? blkindex.dat is an index by tx hashes, there are no other indexes atm? e.g. by h160
 568 2012-03-10 05:26:42 <tomoj> copying over bitcoin.conf, and blk0001.dat, blkindex.dat only
 569 2012-03-10 05:26:58 <Jamesz> welp, time for top gear
 570 2012-03-10 05:27:27 <sipa> Joric: indeed
 571 2012-03-10 05:27:41 <sipa> bdb keeps indexes internally though
 572 2012-03-10 05:28:32 <tomoj> if I copy over database/ and __db* as well, it seems to work fine
 573 2012-03-10 05:29:01 <tomoj> and DB_CONFIG
 574 2012-03-10 05:29:11 <tomoj> (incidentally db.log and debug.log, doubt those matter)
 575 2012-03-10 05:29:33 <sipa> you only need blkindex.dat and blk0001.dat
 576 2012-03-10 05:29:49 <sipa> the rest won't harm though
 577 2012-03-10 05:33:47 <tomoj> then is this a bug? https://gist.github.com/98fbc9544eb372efeca7
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 581 2012-03-10 05:35:49 <sipa> tomoj: did you copy the files while bitcoin was running?
 582 2012-03-10 05:35:57 <tomoj> no
 583 2012-03-10 05:35:59 <sipa> or ran two bitcoind simultaneously?
 584 2012-03-10 05:36:27 <tomoj> lsof shows no trace of bitcoind
 585 2012-03-10 05:36:36 <tomoj> neither pgrep
 586 2012-03-10 05:37:23 <sipa> try using an absolute path
 587 2012-03-10 05:38:01 <tomoj> ok, but.. relative path works when I copy over those other files too
 588 2012-03-10 05:38:42 <Joric> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sKx6lhxM_8 'The story of Bitcoin: how the world's most famous peer to peer currency went through a gold rush, a bubble, and a crash in only a few months.'
 589 2012-03-10 05:39:16 <tomoj> https://gist.github.com/9e09af5a7d0d6a9d09b4
 590 2012-03-10 05:39:20 <Joric> yeah, crash
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 592 2012-03-10 05:40:16 <Joric> and then through a gold rush again )
 593 2012-03-10 05:40:18 <sipa> write permission in that dir?
 594 2012-03-10 05:41:22 <tomoj> .bitcoin.new was 775, trying now with 700
 595 2012-03-10 05:41:37 <tomoj> everything in .bitcoin is 600
 596 2012-03-10 05:44:01 <Joric> 03:00 'bitcoin was actually evaluated by Dan Kaminsky who is a top internet security analyst, and he looked at the code and said - that was written by a world class programmer!'
 597 2012-03-10 05:44:13 <Joric> keep up good work guys )
 598 2012-03-10 05:44:59 <sipa> Joric: his talk about bitcoin is nice
 599 2012-03-10 05:45:10 <sipa> it's somewhere on youtube
 600 2012-03-10 05:45:43 <Joric> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RifYnSKSkvk probably that one
 601 2012-03-10 05:46:07 <sipa> btw, that's not exactly what he said; iirc, he said that most software looks well designed, but when you look carefully, it's very buggy; for bitcoin it's the opposite, and entire classes of bugs were totally missing
 602 2012-03-10 05:46:39 <sipa> it's definitely not well designed though :D
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 604 2012-03-10 05:47:40 <tomoj> looks like database/ is the extra part needed to avoid that error
 605 2012-03-10 05:48:40 <sipa> if you had an unclean shutdown, yes
 606 2012-03-10 05:49:02 <tomoj> ah
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 609 2012-03-10 05:54:45 <Joric> 'i got bitcoins and i stored them at website called mybitcoin (...) then like 4 days later i went to mybitcoin to check on my bitcoins again an the whole website was gone' :D
 610 2012-03-10 05:55:26 <splatster> F-F-F-FAIL!
 611 2012-03-10 05:56:39 <Joric> the elusive bitcoin
 612 2012-03-10 05:56:57 <splatster> Who you gonna call? GHOST BUSTERS!
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 659 2012-03-10 09:45:57 <finway> Hi, are we under attack?  So many dark pool made 1 txes blocks!
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 698 2012-03-10 11:26:30 <sacarlson> has anyone setup a data feed and trade interface to use marketcetera to do automated trading of bitcoin yet?
 699 2012-03-10 11:28:02 archo47 has joined
 700 2012-03-10 11:30:49 <Joric> sacarlson, it takes 30 minutes to write a trading bot and host him on a google app engine
 701 2012-03-10 11:31:25 <sacarlson> Joric: but this does cool backtesting and a group of develpers working on new algorithms
 702 2012-03-10 11:31:58 <sacarlson> joric: and it's all free
 703 2012-03-10 11:35:17 <sacarlson> joric: and in one of my favorite languages ruby, but also java.  with pregenerated libs of tools to setup stuf,  I already found a ruby interface to trade on mtgox so that's done just need the data feed and past data interface
 704 2012-03-10 11:36:27 <Graet> theres more bots trading on gox than ppl already
 705 2012-03-10 11:37:35 <sacarlson> Graet: so why don't they use this cool tool I just found or are they already?
 706 2012-03-10 11:38:06 <Graet> most have written thier own
 707 2012-03-10 11:38:22 <Graet> its a pretty tech savvy audience eh
 708 2012-03-10 11:38:32 <sacarlson> Graet: I just want the back testing part, I don't want to write that myself
 709 2012-03-10 11:38:45 <Graet> fair enough
 710 2012-03-10 11:40:25 <sacarlson> plus all the nice graphic tools to view  your posible gains or loses over past historic data, who want to write that if it's already done
 711 2012-03-10 11:42:54 <Graet> i'm not saying dont do it, i'm saying be aware theres lots of bots already
 712 2012-03-10 11:43:21 <Graet> to the extent ppl are now writing bots to trick and exploit the market bots lol
 713 2012-03-10 11:44:22 <sacarlson> Graet: even the big equity and derivitive markets are trading over 80% by bots now, why wouldn't bitcoin
 714 2012-03-10 11:45:07 finway has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 715 2012-03-10 11:45:37 <Graet> indeed, it is...
 716 2012-03-10 11:46:00 <Graet> to the extent ppl are now writing bots to trick dumber ones :)
 717 2012-03-10 11:46:20 <Graet> quite amusing to watch actually ;)
 718 2012-03-10 11:47:03 <Joric> i wish
 719 2012-03-10 11:47:06 <sacarlson> sure why not write stupid bots and release them on google apps and force them to make money until people put more trust in them and then crash that bot and take it all
 720 2012-03-10 11:48:10 <Joric> my bot made ~1000 trades, lost hundred bucks and died a few seconds after launch
 721 2012-03-10 11:48:27 <Eliel> sounds like a buggy bot.
 722 2012-03-10 11:49:08 <Joric> he's a good boy i'm still proud of him
 723 2012-03-10 11:49:33 <sacarlson> joric: I write bots that play in fake money first, another tool provided in marketcetera
 724 2012-03-10 11:49:41 TD has joined
 725 2012-03-10 11:53:31 <Joric> here's an example of bot trading http://i.imgur.com/JcN4O.jpg
 726 2012-03-10 11:56:05 <sacarlson> Joric: I don't know how to read that graph
 727 2012-03-10 11:56:43 <Joric> it's the famous order-of-two bot
 728 2012-03-10 11:56:55 <Joric> has been noticed a few times
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 738 2012-03-10 12:52:08 <Joric> etotheipi_!! did you get rid of loading entire blockchain into memory yet
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 740 2012-03-10 12:54:35 <Joric> maybe it's worth to write a class that would load blockchain by portions not sure it would be faster than normal parsing though
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 743 2012-03-10 12:55:33 <finway> OK, any devs here?
 744 2012-03-10 12:55:47 <finway> Does the 1 txes blocks bother you?
 745 2012-03-10 12:56:12 <finway> Today, there are 15 1-txes blocks in 90 total blocks.
 746 2012-03-10 12:56:38 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 747 2012-03-10 12:57:13 <Joric> yeah someone said it was some kind of attack
 748 2012-03-10 12:57:41 <Joric> we're looking into it
 749 2012-03-10 12:57:44 <btctrader22> same ip ?
 750 2012-03-10 12:58:12 <finway> The ip doesn't matter, because you'll never know there real ip on the p2p network if they ban you.
 751 2012-03-10 12:58:38 <finway> Joric: so, what's the plan?
 752 2012-03-10 12:59:03 <btctrader22> blockain.info has been tracking blocks "first seen IP". If they're all the same ...
 753 2012-03-10 12:59:06 <Joric> well it seems normal so far
 754 2012-03-10 12:59:24 <Joric> some of them came from deepbit
 755 2012-03-10 12:59:50 <finway> Joric: Most of them are from the static ip.
 756 2012-03-10 12:59:52 <btctrader22> deepbit usually pushes block with more tx than avg
 757 2012-03-10 13:00:06 <finway> and the static ip has almost 2T hash/s
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 762 2012-03-10 13:03:51 <finway> It makes people remembering artfortz
 763 2012-03-10 13:04:18 <finway> mine
 764 2012-03-10 13:04:19 <finway> when he dig 1/3 coins everyday.
 765 2012-03-10 13:04:23 antix has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 766 2012-03-10 13:04:28 <finway> 1/3 of 7200 coins everyday
 767 2012-03-10 13:08:35 <finway> ;;seen roconnor
 768 2012-03-10 13:08:36 <gribble> roconnor was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 3 weeks, 0 days, 21 hours, 27 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: <roconnor> Dear user n27pHgA6KioCvXUCdijzdFjeaa9kHA7kzi, Due to your violation of bitcoin TOS your asset has been frozen and your private key is being disclosed as 9afaa65b092e4c82ea752080bee6ce53398207dca480f64c82f32bdb7f85b7e5. Have a nice day, and thank you for using bitcoin.
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 771 2012-03-10 13:09:29 <finway> Where did roconnor go ?
 772 2012-03-10 13:09:52 <finway> He stalls OP_EVAL and then disappeared.
 773 2012-03-10 13:10:07 <finway> stopped
 774 2012-03-10 13:10:17 <finway> Interesting.
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 780 2012-03-10 13:22:04 <Joric> finway, check out 'relayed by ip' and the location here http://blockchain.info/tx-index/3213882/5246b35bf68882f3606a0e310fb7c7d3516f4a84b2332d0219a65138d8939318
 781 2012-03-10 13:22:19 <Joric> it looks like a secret island in the middle of the ocean
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 783 2012-03-10 13:22:52 finway has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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 785 2012-03-10 13:23:46 <DrHaribo> It's a secret boat mining operation. Powered by waves.
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 789 2012-03-10 13:32:21 <DrHaribo> Hmm, -paytoscripthashtime=1333238400 not helping on testnet? I still get "you may need to upgrade" with v0.6.0rc2
 790 2012-03-10 13:34:58 <diki> then perhaps
 791 2012-03-10 13:35:04 <diki> you may REALLY need to upgrade
 792 2012-03-10 13:36:17 t7 has joined
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 794 2012-03-10 13:42:15 <[Tycho]> DrHaribo: it's for new difficulty adjustment mode, not because of P2SH
 795 2012-03-10 13:43:14 ubnutustudent has joined
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 797 2012-03-10 13:43:31 <DrHaribo> [Tycho]: What version should I run on testnet then?
 798 2012-03-10 13:43:40 <[Tycho]> Try 0.6
 799 2012-03-10 13:43:44 Dagger2 has joined
 800 2012-03-10 13:44:07 fahadsadah has joined
 801 2012-03-10 13:44:40 <[Tycho]> Check the updates on github, it should be visible.
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 810 2012-03-10 13:54:48 <Eliel> finway: roconnor has vanished from here but he seems to still frequent #haskell
 811 2012-03-10 13:55:08 <finway> Eliel, glad to hear.
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 814 2012-03-10 14:11:03 <TD> ugh
 815 2012-03-10 14:11:07 <t7> wow the client looks nicer now :)
 816 2012-03-10 14:11:14 <TD> i got stuck at the BIP16 block
 817 2012-03-10 14:12:14 <TD> now bitcoin won't shut down properly either
 818 2012-03-10 14:12:16 <TD> <sigh>
 819 2012-03-10 14:12:31 <finway> 0.6 rc1 ?
 820 2012-03-10 14:13:02 <TD> it was. i upgraded to rc2 (i think .... mac version does not show rc numbers) and it still happened
 821 2012-03-10 14:13:07 <TD> i think i'll need to set the flag
 822 2012-03-10 14:13:09 <t7> has anyone set up cmake for bitcoin?
 823 2012-03-10 14:14:00 <TD> though somebody on the forum said rc2 doesn't fix it
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 825 2012-03-10 14:16:03 <TD> bip16--
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 827 2012-03-10 14:16:53 <TD> maybe if i force a rescan too
 828 2012-03-10 14:17:55 <finway> is SIGHASH_ANYONECANPAY  real ?
 829 2012-03-10 14:18:33 <finway> I didn't find it in Scripts, but in Contracts
 830 2012-03-10 14:20:15 <TD> yes it's real. check the code.
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 834 2012-03-10 14:22:19 <finway> thanks.
 835 2012-03-10 14:24:23 erle- has quit (Quit: erle-)
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 837 2012-03-10 14:30:15 <sipa> TD: do you have the backup wallet menu entry?
 838 2012-03-10 14:30:56 <sipa> or for bitcoind, does getblock report hashnext or nextblockhash?
 839 2012-03-10 14:31:58 <[Tycho]> Hello.
 840 2012-03-10 14:33:19 zz_bitcoinsarefu has left ("Leaving")
 841 2012-03-10 14:35:49 <sipa> TD: a rescan won't help, that only adds missing transactions to the.wallet
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 844 2012-03-10 14:44:58 <t7> is Dimitri Kaparis in here?
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 847 2012-03-10 14:46:45 <t7> why not split the daemon, client and gui client into different projects
 848 2012-03-10 14:46:55 <DrHaribo> I'm stuck at height 47972 on testnet. Anyone past that, and which bitcoind version are you running?
 849 2012-03-10 14:46:58 <t7> the code seems like a bit of a monolith
 850 2012-03-10 14:47:07 <t7> and you guys just keep adding to it
 851 2012-03-10 14:47:17 <BlueMatt> or we could just fix the code...
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 853 2012-03-10 14:49:14 <t7> start again :)
 854 2012-03-10 14:51:06 <sipa> t7: several people have started reimplementing bitcoin from scratch
 855 2012-03-10 14:52:02 <luke-jr> t7: work needs to be done on a standard wallet protocol before that's feasable
 856 2012-03-10 14:52:22 <luke-jr> t7: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Wallet_protocol is a few months old, probably needs rethinking
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 861 2012-03-10 15:09:26 <yellowhat> hi, what is the proper way to get some testnet coins?
 862 2012-03-10 15:09:35 <sipa> yellowhat: faucet, or mining
 863 2012-03-10 15:09:47 <sipa> andytoshi: did you manage to get your blockchain database uploaded somewhere?
 864 2012-03-10 15:09:48 <yellowhat> for my tests, i need about 1000. fauchet is dried up
 865 2012-03-10 15:09:59 <yellowhat> has anyone some to spare? mmd5mp8rAirGXXaDDgu7j4PUY4CnnoxVh7 :)
 866 2012-03-10 15:12:05 <pickett> tihnk you can buy them somewhere
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 869 2012-03-10 15:17:23 <DrHaribo> I have lots of coins, but testnet isn't working for me
 870 2012-03-10 15:18:38 <DrHaribo> In the logs I see "invalid" chains up to height 48316. Highest on testnet block explorer seems to be 48079. And my bitcoind is stuck at 47972.
 871 2012-03-10 15:19:28 <sturles> DrHaribo: I had this problem yesterday.  Solution was to increase the number of database locks and lockers in db.cpp.
 872 2012-03-10 15:19:48 <sturles> Reorganization fails due to lack of locks.
 873 2012-03-10 15:21:12 <DrHaribo> dbenv.set_lk_max_locks(10000); and dbenv.set_lk_max_objects(10000); ?
 874 2012-03-10 15:21:12 <sturles> Do you get DB errors about beeing out of memory (which you aren't)?
 875 2012-03-10 15:21:41 <sturles> Add dbenv.set_lk_max_lockers as well.  I added a 0 to that number.
 876 2012-03-10 15:22:11 <DrHaribo> No, I don't get any out of memory errors
 877 2012-03-10 15:22:16 <sturles> Hmm.
 878 2012-03-10 15:22:22 <sturles> Anything in db.log?
 879 2012-03-10 15:22:36 <sturles> May be a different error then.
 880 2012-03-10 15:22:39 <DrHaribo> received block 00000000176286ab7378 ERROR: AcceptBlock() : incorrect proof of work ERROR: ProcessBlock() : AcceptBlock FAILED
 881 2012-03-10 15:22:55 <t7> how do i build the qt client on linux
 882 2012-03-10 15:22:59 <t7> the makefile.unix only makes bitcoind
 883 2012-03-10 15:23:11 <sipa> t7: qmake
 884 2012-03-10 15:23:16 <sipa> not in src
 885 2012-03-10 15:24:00 <DrHaribo> I see from version messages in the logs many other 0.6 nodes stuck on 47972 just like myself
 886 2012-03-10 15:24:53 <yellowhat> im stuck on 47471 with 0.5.2-beta
 887 2012-03-10 15:26:13 finway has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 888 2012-03-10 15:26:13 <DrHaribo> Looks like Mike Hearn is stuck on the production network also, still after rc2 upgrade. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=63165.40
 889 2012-03-10 15:26:32 <t7> cmake would be nice :3
 890 2012-03-10 15:27:13 <sipa> t7: contributions *very* welcome there
 891 2012-03-10 15:27:40 <sipa> if you can make a build system that works for both bitcoin-qt and bitcoind, is portable, works, and is maintained
 892 2012-03-10 15:28:46 <yellowhat> so, essentially there is no working testnet at the moment?
 893 2012-03-10 15:29:23 <sipa> i'll put some work in extending the new best valid chain
 894 2012-03-10 15:32:35 JRWR has joined
 895 2012-03-10 15:33:08 <DrHaribo> What height is testnet supposed to be right now?
 896 2012-03-10 15:34:02 <sipa> my current best is 47826
 897 2012-03-10 15:34:30 <sipa> 47827
 898 2012-03-10 15:34:47 <DrHaribo> I have 47972 but I see others have up to 48316.
 899 2012-03-10 15:35:04 <sipa> they have an invalid chain
 900 2012-03-10 15:35:10 <sipa> (according to the 0.6.0 rules)
 901 2012-03-10 15:35:14 <t7> it works :D
 902 2012-03-10 15:35:21 <DrHaribo> Am I also on an invalid chain then?
 903 2012-03-10 15:35:26 Joric_ has joined
 904 2012-03-10 15:35:34 <sipa> DrHaribo: no idea
 905 2012-03-10 15:35:49 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 906 2012-03-10 15:35:50 <sipa> 47828
 907 2012-03-10 15:36:03 <sipa> i'll catch up quickly enough (mining testnet at 200MH/s now)
 908 2012-03-10 15:37:07 <DrHaribo> Cool. I guess my node will switch once you are past 47972.
 909 2012-03-10 15:40:19 <sipa> ;;bc,calcd 206900000 7.26984055
 910 2012-03-10 15:40:19 <gribble> Error: '0.150912176617' is not a valid integer.
 911 2012-03-10 15:40:31 <sipa> ;;bc,calcd 7.26984055 206900000
 912 2012-03-10 15:40:31 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 7.26984055 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 206900000, is 3876045 years, 10 weeks, 1 day, 22 hours, 6 minutes, and 40 seconds
 913 2012-03-10 15:40:47 <sipa> ;;bc,calcd 206900000 7
 914 2012-03-10 15:40:48 <gribble> Error: '0.145310638337' is not a valid integer.
 915 2012-03-10 15:41:02 <sipa> ;;bc,calcd 206900 7
 916 2012-03-10 15:41:02 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 206900 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 7, is 2 minutes and 25 seconds
 917 2012-03-10 15:41:09 <sipa> ;;bc,calcd 206900 7.26984055
 918 2012-03-10 15:41:09 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 206900 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 7.26984055, is 2 minutes and 30 seconds
 919 2012-03-10 15:41:42 <DrHaribo> Hm, that will take a long time.
 920 2012-03-10 15:42:20 <DrHaribo> If I got blocks in my chain that are now considered invalid, is there a way to back up without deleting all chain data and starting over?
 921 2012-03-10 15:42:37 <sipa> ;;calc 2.5*(48317-47831)
 922 2012-03-10 15:42:37 <gribble> 1215
 923 2012-03-10 15:42:44 <sipa> hmm, a day :(
 924 2012-03-10 15:42:58 <DrHaribo> Will -rescan remove blocks that are now considered invalid?
 925 2012-03-10 15:43:02 d4de has joined
 926 2012-03-10 15:43:02 d4de has quit (Changing host)
 927 2012-03-10 15:43:02 d4de has joined
 928 2012-03-10 15:43:09 <sipa> -rescan has nothing to do with the block database
 929 2012-03-10 15:43:31 <sipa> DrHaribo: i have a loadblocks patch that allows one to import a blk0001.dat file
 930 2012-03-10 15:43:58 <sipa> it's almost as slow as redownloading though
 931 2012-03-10 15:44:26 <DrHaribo> I guess I will try redownloading
 932 2012-03-10 15:44:46 booo has joined
 933 2012-03-10 15:46:55 <Joric_> sipa, how so? what's the bottleneck? rechecking signatures?
 934 2012-03-10 15:47:08 Joric_ is now known as Joric
 935 2012-03-10 15:47:35 <sipa> Joric: and database stuff
 936 2012-03-10 15:47:40 <sipa> disk I/O
 937 2012-03-10 15:49:58 darkee has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 938 2012-03-10 15:49:58 <sipa> DrHaribo: 835 already
 939 2012-03-10 15:50:52 darkee has joined
 940 2012-03-10 15:52:04 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 941 2012-03-10 15:52:38 gavinandresen has joined
 942 2012-03-10 15:53:11 archo47 has quit ()
 943 2012-03-10 15:53:23 archo47 has joined
 944 2012-03-10 15:53:28 <sipa> gmaxwell: want to put some hash power on testnet (and make sure you're connected to me) to make the current git head accepted chain 'win' ?
 945 2012-03-10 15:54:11 <gavinandresen> sipa:  disconnecting version < 0.6 nodes would also be a possible fix
 946 2012-03-10 15:54:18 <gavinandresen> ... as would a testnet reset
 947 2012-03-10 15:54:40 <yellowhat> i can point 250 mhash anywhere if you tell me how :)
 948 2012-03-10 15:55:10 skeledrew has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 949 2012-03-10 15:55:19 skeledrew has joined
 950 2012-03-10 15:55:35 <sipa> gavinandresen: true, but this could fix it (at least for upgraded people) within a few hours
 951 2012-03-10 15:56:02 <gavinandresen> true
 952 2012-03-10 15:56:10 <Graet> i can help on testnet with ~1ghash if needed/wanted
 953 2012-03-10 15:57:00 <sipa> yellowhat: bitcoind -daemon -testnet -addnode=80.200.11.178; point miner to http://localhost:8332
 954 2012-03-10 15:57:38 <sipa> with a 0.6.0rc2 or later bitcoind
 955 2012-03-10 15:58:42 <sipa> gavinandresen: it seems the PoW check happens in AcceptBlock, and not in CheckBlock
 956 2012-03-10 15:58:51 <sipa> gavinandresen: so that isn't done during loading
 957 2012-03-10 15:58:59 <TD> yeah
 958 2012-03-10 15:59:05 <TD> i saw the out of locks/out of memory errors too
 959 2012-03-10 15:59:13 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 960 2012-03-10 15:59:15 <TD> sipa: yes i have the backup wallet menu entry
 961 2012-03-10 15:59:18 <yellowhat> just to make sure: would it be ok to overwrite my current install of 0.5 with this version (~10 real coins) in it?
 962 2012-03-10 15:59:19 <TD> what does that mean? rf
 963 2012-03-10 15:59:29 <sipa> TD: that means you have 0.6.0rc2
 964 2012-03-10 15:59:47 <TD> sipa: ok. upgrading to rc2 does not fix the problem with the chain download stopping due to the BIP16 stuff
 965 2012-03-10 15:59:54 <TD> sipa: that seems like a release blocking bug to me :)
 966 2012-03-10 15:59:54 <sipa> yellowhat: always have a backup, but upgrading to 0.6.0rc2 should be safe
 967 2012-03-10 16:00:04 <TD> unless it's only an issue for people who used rc1
 968 2012-03-10 16:00:09 <sipa> TD: agree; can you put the blockchain somewhere?
 969 2012-03-10 16:00:26 <TD> you want blk0001.dat?
 970 2012-03-10 16:00:32 <sipa> blkindex.dat
 971 2012-03-10 16:00:40 <Graet> fi8refox
 972 2012-03-10 16:00:44 <Graet> oopd
 973 2012-03-10 16:00:47 <TD> uploading
 974 2012-03-10 16:01:12 <sipa> Graet: change your password :)
 975 2012-03-10 16:01:47 <yellowhat> sipa: started mining according to your instructions
 976 2012-03-10 16:01:47 <Graet> lol
 977 2012-03-10 16:02:23 <sipa> yellowhat: is your current height 47837 ?
 978 2012-03-10 16:02:53 <yellowhat> nope, i started the wrong client one moment
 979 2012-03-10 16:03:05 <yellowhat> now it is
 980 2012-03-10 16:03:54 <yellowhat> hmm 0.6.0-beta is not ok, is it?
 981 2012-03-10 16:04:06 <sipa> it may be
 982 2012-03-10 16:04:18 <yellowhat> i downloaded from http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.6.0/test/
 983 2012-03-10 16:04:36 <yellowhat> 47837 is my block count
 984 2012-03-10 16:05:01 <sipa> yellowhat: you're fine
 985 2012-03-10 16:05:25 <sipa> now 47838?
 986 2012-03-10 16:05:41 <yellowhat> great, while helping you i get my needed test coins . thats synergy. yes, 47838
 987 2012-03-10 16:06:26 mrsy has quit (Quit: leaving)
 988 2012-03-10 16:06:56 <sipa> TD: actually, blk0001.dat as well would be easier to test with
 989 2012-03-10 16:07:05 <TD> that's going to take a long time to upload
 990 2012-03-10 16:07:11 <TD> do you actually just need the last part?
 991 2012-03-10 16:07:45 <sipa> i'll try with just blkindex.dat
 992 2012-03-10 16:08:16 <TD> as far as i can tell it never even tries to download the next block again
 993 2012-03-10 16:08:49 <sipa> that's clear: because it already has it
 994 2012-03-10 16:09:04 <sipa> the question is why it doesn't reconnect
 995 2012-03-10 16:09:22 <yellowhat> nice, mined my first block with 51.4141 test bitcoins
 996 2012-03-10 16:09:36 <DrHaribo> 47841 looks like I'm up to date now too
 997 2012-03-10 16:09:45 <sipa> DrHaribo: ack
 998 2012-03-10 16:09:49 <sipa> 42 now
 999 2012-03-10 16:10:28 <DrHaribo> yep got 42 too.. will add some hash power now
1000 2012-03-10 16:11:23 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1001 2012-03-10 16:12:43 <sipa> actually, i think this is the exact behaviour: if a block that belongs to the actual best chain is downloaded and stored in the database, but not marked part of the best chain, the system is stuck
1002 2012-03-10 16:16:00 <TD> ah
1003 2012-03-10 16:16:19 <TD> it shouldn't be stored if it's not valid, right
1004 2012-03-10 16:17:27 <sipa> hmm, indeed; if checkblock fails, it shouldn't have been stored at all
1005 2012-03-10 16:18:17 <yellowhat> not it crashed
1006 2012-03-10 16:18:25 <yellowhat> my bitcoind crashed while mining
1007 2012-03-10 16:18:32 <sipa> yellowhat: which OS?
1008 2012-03-10 16:18:37 <gavinandresen> By the way: I'm 4% into uploading a signed-good blockchain snapshot to sourceforge, in case the answer for recovering is "download a known-good copy of blk*.dat"
1009 2012-03-10 16:18:37 <yellowhat> windows 7
1010 2012-03-10 16:19:29 <yellowhat> problem, unable to restart it :(
1011 2012-03-10 16:19:38 <sipa> which error?
1012 2012-03-10 16:19:52 <yellowhat> welkl, windows terminates it
1013 2012-03-10 16:20:02 <sipa> can you check debug.log?
1014 2012-03-10 16:20:06 <yellowhat> sure
1015 2012-03-10 16:20:13 <sipa> APPDATA/bitcoin/testnet/debug.log
1016 2012-03-10 16:21:31 <TD> sipa: http://plan99.net/~mike/blkindex.dat
1017 2012-03-10 16:22:21 <TD> does this mean if people upgrade to 0.6, then mining power behind BIP16 falls somehow, there is a risk that everyones client  will break?
1018 2012-03-10 16:22:39 tcatm has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
1019 2012-03-10 16:22:45 <yellowhat> sent you a PM to avoid spamming
1020 2012-03-10 16:23:24 tcatm has joined
1021 2012-03-10 16:23:55 <sipa> TD: think i got it; your rc1 considered the bad chain invalid,
1022 2012-03-10 16:24:05 <sipa> eh, the long chain
1023 2012-03-10 16:24:31 <sipa> but its blocks were only failing when trying to be connected
1024 2012-03-10 16:24:51 <sipa> which apparently happens after storing them to the block index
1025 2012-03-10 16:25:16 <sipa> i.e. they are known to your node's database, but not part of the best chain, and are never redownloaded
1026 2012-03-10 16:25:16 rebroad has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1027 2012-03-10 16:25:39 <sipa> i still don't understand why a reorganisation doesn't occur when that (previously invalid) chain is extended
1028 2012-03-10 16:26:09 <TD> i think it's trying
1029 2012-03-10 16:26:14 <TD> but it fails for some reason
1030 2012-03-10 16:26:33 <TD> EXCEPTION: 11DbException
1031 2012-03-10 16:26:33 <TD> Db::put: Cannot allocate memory
1032 2012-03-10 16:26:33 <TD> bitcoin in ProcessMessage()
1033 2012-03-10 16:26:33 <TD> ProcessMessage(block, 5798 bytes) FAILED
1034 2012-03-10 16:26:33 <TD> received block 00000000000001c0a13e
1035 2012-03-10 16:26:34 <TD> REORGANIZE
1036 2012-03-10 16:26:40 <TD> i see such messages over and over again in the logs
1037 2012-03-10 16:26:53 <TD> i don't know why bdb thinks it ran out of memory. i suspect it's being asked to process an enormous transaction
1038 2012-03-10 16:26:57 <sipa> aah, that is the issue
1039 2012-03-10 16:26:59 <DrHaribo> set more locks like sturles said?
1040 2012-03-10 16:27:00 <TD> perhaps the re-org code has a previously unknown scalability limit
1041 2012-03-10 16:27:04 <sipa> indeed
1042 2012-03-10 16:27:08 <gavinandresen> sigh
1043 2012-03-10 16:27:35 <sipa> TD: i heard about that problem before, didn't realize it was related
1044 2012-03-10 16:27:38 <TD> DrHaribo: i saw an error about locks much earlier but now i only see messages about RAM
1045 2012-03-10 16:28:40 <sipa> gavinandresen: jrmithdobbs found that yesterday, increasing the maximum number of locks and lockers seems to help
1046 2012-03-10 16:28:55 <DrHaribo> sturles said he got out of memory errors without being out of memory, and that adding locks and lockers fixed it
1047 2012-03-10 16:29:03 <sipa> indeed
1048 2012-03-10 16:29:10 <gavinandresen> sipa: was that a recompile-bdb-thing or set some flags when opening the db env thing?
1049 2012-03-10 16:29:18 <sipa> gavinandresen: the latter
1050 2012-03-10 16:29:26 <gavinandresen> good
1051 2012-03-10 16:30:25 <TD> i wonder how big a re-organize can be before it dies
1052 2012-03-10 16:30:46 <DrHaribo> I got a 40/42 block reorg on testnet.. on height 48344 now
1053 2012-03-10 16:31:10 <TD> ah yes
1054 2012-03-10 16:31:17 <TD> sipa: the error about locks appears in db.log
1055 2012-03-10 16:31:18 <sipa> DrHaribo: sure you're running rc2?
1056 2012-03-10 16:32:48 <DrHaribo> yeah, git checkout v0.6.0rc2 and make
1057 2012-03-10 16:34:08 <TD> "Note that transactions accumulate locks over the transaction lifetime, and the lock objects required by a single transaction is the total lock objects required by all of the database operations in the transaction. "
1058 2012-03-10 16:34:21 <TD> the current max locks setting is already 10x the default
1059 2012-03-10 16:34:38 <TD> but i guess a multi- day re-org is a pretty huge db operation
1060 2012-03-10 16:34:43 <TD> i'll try making it 100x the default
1061 2012-03-10 16:35:14 <sipa> TD: jrmithdobbs set objects and lockers to 1000000
1062 2012-03-10 16:35:23 <sipa> not sure if he tried lower values
1063 2012-03-10 16:37:42 <jine> Does anyone know wtf this is? http://x.jine.se/irc.png
1064 2012-03-10 16:38:33 <Graet> wow started mining testnet and got bloock under 1 minute
1065 2012-03-10 16:38:47 <Graet> oops another
1066 2012-03-10 16:39:05 <Graet> better not do this long :P)
1067 2012-03-10 16:39:10 <DrHaribo> Which height are you at, Graet ?
1068 2012-03-10 16:39:30 <Graet> 48348
1069 2012-03-10 16:39:39 <sipa> Graet: i believe you are on the wrong chain
1070 2012-03-10 16:39:46 <DrHaribo> I'm also on 48348
1071 2012-03-10 16:39:47 * Graet stops
1072 2012-03-10 16:39:50 <sipa> are you sure you have 0.6.0rc2 or later?
1073 2012-03-10 16:39:57 <Graet> yes fresh install
1074 2012-03-10 16:40:13 <Graet> 0.6.0rc2
1075 2012-03-10 16:40:20 <Graet> downloaded windows exe
1076 2012-03-10 16:40:21 <sipa> can you start your node with -checkblocks ?
1077 2012-03-10 16:40:26 <Graet> yes
1078 2012-03-10 16:41:00 <sipa> i see a chain of length 48351 that gets rejected by my node
1079 2012-03-10 16:41:25 <DrHaribo> 48351 is what I have now - I stopped generating though
1080 2012-03-10 16:41:51 <DrHaribo> I deleted blk* and ran only 0.6.0rc2 since then
1081 2012-03-10 16:41:59 ThomasV has joined
1082 2012-03-10 16:42:25 <sipa> this is strange
1083 2012-03-10 16:42:57 rebroad has joined
1084 2012-03-10 16:44:00 <sipa> jine: you should report that
1085 2012-03-10 16:44:32 <yellowhat> so i backed up and deleted my bitcoin/testnet directory, restarted with bitcoin-qt -daemon -testnet -addnode=80.200.11.178 -checkblocks and it still crashes. so i'm unable to connect to any testnet now
1086 2012-03-10 16:44:49 <jine> sipa: Seems like some kind of UTF-x bug... this is what i get when i copy'n'paste it in the console; http://jine.be/irc.txt
1087 2012-03-10 16:45:21 <sipa> yellowhat: you deleted the entire directory?
1088 2012-03-10 16:45:28 <sipa> and it still crashes?
1089 2012-03-10 16:45:29 <yellowhat> yes
1090 2012-03-10 16:45:55 <yellowhat> i kept the parent directory of course with the real coins
1091 2012-03-10 16:46:08 <sipa> glad you did
1092 2012-03-10 16:46:17 <sipa> gavinandresen: sounds like a serious bug, see above
1093 2012-03-10 16:46:25 <yellowhat> plus i have versioned backups :)
1094 2012-03-10 16:46:25 iocor has joined
1095 2012-03-10 16:49:29 <Graet> 48352 after restart/ resync sipa
1096 2012-03-10 16:49:46 <DrHaribo> 48352 here too
1097 2012-03-10 16:50:09 <sipa> i get it
1098 2012-03-10 16:50:18 <sipa> i am running git head, you're running rc2?
1099 2012-03-10 16:50:23 <DrHaribo> yep
1100 2012-03-10 16:50:27 <sipa> my node has the BIP30 patch applied
1101 2012-03-10 16:50:55 <sipa> and roconnor and i did an experiment some time ago to see whether his attack still worked after BIP30
1102 2012-03-10 16:51:41 <Graet> i downloaded and executed windows exe from sourceforge, made conf and ran it
1103 2012-03-10 16:52:38 <DrHaribo> rc2 makes blocks considered invalid by head?
1104 2012-03-10 16:53:07 <sipa> DrHaribo: yes, BIP30
1105 2012-03-10 16:53:20 <DrHaribo> ah, the duplicate tx thing
1106 2012-03-10 16:53:45 <sipa> though i believe our test was before februari 20, and git head enables BIP30 on testnet after februari 20 only
1107 2012-03-10 16:54:35 <yellowhat> not it seems it no longer crashes instantly for some reason
1108 2012-03-10 16:54:41 <yellowhat> not -> now
1109 2012-03-10 16:54:46 splatster_ is now known as splatster
1110 2012-03-10 16:54:47 splatster has quit (Changing host)
1111 2012-03-10 16:54:47 splatster has joined
1112 2012-03-10 16:54:49 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: i tried 50000 and 100000 iirc before saying fuck it and bumping them to 1mil
1113 2012-03-10 16:55:11 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: want to pull request that?
1114 2012-03-10 16:55:17 userjhg has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1115 2012-03-10 16:55:28 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: it causes like 300M extra mem usage
1116 2012-03-10 16:55:34 <sipa> oh wow
1117 2012-03-10 16:55:36 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: i don't think it's the "right" fix
1118 2012-03-10 16:55:41 <sipa> no indeed
1119 2012-03-10 16:56:50 userhdd has joined
1120 2012-03-10 16:57:58 <yellowhat> i think i got it. my client crashes as soon as i point my guiminer to localhost
1121 2012-03-10 16:58:04 <yellowhat> that is the reason
1122 2012-03-10 16:58:25 <yellowhat> it crashed instantly before, because the guiminer was still running in background
1123 2012-03-10 16:59:02 <TD> ok, let's see
1124 2012-03-10 16:59:06 <TD> it's trying the big reorg now
1125 2012-03-10 17:00:05 <sipa> gavinandresen: i think we'll need a 0.6.0rc3 with BIP30 in it soon
1126 2012-03-10 17:00:15 <gavinandresen> sipa: yes
1127 2012-03-10 17:00:30 booo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1128 2012-03-10 17:00:30 <sipa> also a final 0.5.3, for solo miners that want to run stable
1129 2012-03-10 17:00:40 <TD> jrmithdobbs: at least for me, a 10x increase got me past the bad block
1130 2012-03-10 17:00:49 <Graet> 48370, smashing thru the blocks - am i on right chain?
1131 2012-03-10 17:00:53 <TD> it took a while but it worked
1132 2012-03-10 17:01:16 <jrmithdobbs> TD: at 100k it still choked and started throwing bdb messages to db.log
1133 2012-03-10 17:01:18 <jrmithdobbs> for me
1134 2012-03-10 17:01:23 <TD> odd
1135 2012-03-10 17:01:25 <TD> i wonder why it's different
1136 2012-03-10 17:01:35 <sipa> Graet: no, i found it; my experiment was on februari 23, but BIP 30 is activated on testnet since februari 20 on testnet
1137 2012-03-10 17:01:38 <jrmithdobbs> i386 vs x86_64 maybe?
1138 2012-03-10 17:01:49 <jrmithdobbs> this was a linux i386 box
1139 2012-03-10 17:01:50 <TD> maybe. i'm on amd64
1140 2012-03-10 17:01:53 <TD> macos
1141 2012-03-10 17:01:56 <Graet> so i'll stop
1142 2012-03-10 17:01:57 <sipa> Graet: so your chain is not valid according to git head now
1143 2012-03-10 17:02:05 <Graet> k
1144 2012-03-10 17:02:42 <gavinandresen> Ok, so for the TD / rc1 issue I think a new command-line arg to set that param is the right thing to do for now.
1145 2012-03-10 17:02:54 <Graet> 0.6.0rc2 wont work atm without patching?
1146 2012-03-10 17:02:59 <TD> what's the risk of it happening again
1147 2012-03-10 17:03:05 <sipa> Graet: not on testnet; on realnet you're safe with it
1148 2012-03-10 17:03:08 <sipa> for npw
1149 2012-03-10 17:03:11 <Graet> ok ty
1150 2012-03-10 17:03:16 <TD> if mining support for BIP16 falls and such a tx makes it into the chain, everyone will stop?
1151 2012-03-10 17:03:16 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: i think it needs a --force-reverify or similar to go along with it
1152 2012-03-10 17:03:26 <Graet> i only put it on pare machine to do osm testnet
1153 2012-03-10 17:03:27 <gavinandresen> We should figure out what the real problem is, because it might happen again with short chains as blocks get fuller
1154 2012-03-10 17:03:32 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: so that the repair isn't "twiddle these numbers and wait for it automagically try a reorg"
1155 2012-03-10 17:03:51 <gavinandresen> jrmithdobbs: seems like -checkblocks aught to do whatever -force-reverify would do
1156 2012-03-10 17:04:17 <sipa> gavinandresen: indeed, i think some checks from acceptblock need to be part of what -checkblocks does
1157 2012-03-10 17:04:41 <sipa> but that will only fix the testnet issue
1158 2012-03-10 17:04:44 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: aye
1159 2012-03-10 17:04:48 <sipa> checkblocks does verify scripts
1160 2012-03-10 17:05:10 <TD> the bdb docs aren't useful
1161 2012-03-10 17:05:12 <sipa> the point is that your current best chain in your database was valid after upgrading from rc1 to rc2
1162 2012-03-10 17:05:19 <TD> they just say "every app is different, figure out what works for you"
1163 2012-03-10 17:05:23 <jrmithdobbs> ugh, we need the stupid wiki mirrored somewhere. tux's shit ddos prevention makes convergence have a fuckin fit
1164 2012-03-10 17:05:45 Zarutian has joined
1165 2012-03-10 17:05:48 <sipa> and you cannot expect the node to retry every possible chain split in the database at startup
1166 2012-03-10 17:05:56 <sipa> so no, i think waiting for a reorg is the right thing to do
1167 2012-03-10 17:06:00 <jrmithdobbs> half my connections there or the forums seem to get an immediately disconnected
1168 2012-03-10 17:06:46 <sipa> Graet: you could delete your testnet blk*, and -connect to me
1169 2012-03-10 17:07:05 <sipa> -connect -nolisten
1170 2012-03-10 17:07:16 <Graet> -addnode=80.200.11.178 ?
1171 2012-03-10 17:07:32 <sipa> -connect=80.200.11.178
1172 2012-03-10 17:07:37 <Graet> ty
1173 2012-03-10 17:07:41 <machine2> http://www.beta.facefox.com/index.php?do=/invite/
1174 2012-03-10 17:07:54 <sipa> (-connect overrides the entire open connection logic, and replaces it with a static "connect to only these nodes")
1175 2012-03-10 17:08:03 <Graet> yep
1176 2012-03-10 17:08:14 <sipa> machine2: what is that?
1177 2012-03-10 17:09:26 <sipa> Graet: i'm at 47887
1178 2012-03-10 17:10:25 <Graet> kk
1179 2012-03-10 17:10:39 <sipa> gavinandresen: a command-line switch for that sounds like the right thing to do
1180 2012-03-10 17:11:01 <sipa> in normal operation such large reorganisations shouldn't occur
1181 2012-03-10 17:11:24 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1182 2012-03-10 17:11:44 pklaus has joined
1183 2012-03-10 17:12:07 <sipa> but maybe it is not necessary to run the actual entire reorg in a single db transaction
1184 2012-03-10 17:13:03 <Graet> syncing now sipa
1185 2012-03-10 17:13:13 <Graet> migh grab coffe or something while it does ;)
1186 2012-03-10 17:13:14 <sipa> TD: have you kept a backup of your faulty database?
1187 2012-03-10 17:13:31 <TD> i have the one i uploaded to the server
1188 2012-03-10 17:13:33 <TD> blkindex.dat
1189 2012-03-10 17:13:36 <TD> not blk00001.dat
1190 2012-03-10 17:13:42 pklaus_ has joined
1191 2012-03-10 17:14:51 StewieMcFluffy_ has joined
1192 2012-03-10 17:15:07 Stewie__ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1193 2012-03-10 17:15:18 pklaus has quit (Client Quit)
1194 2012-03-10 17:15:19 pklaus_ is now known as pklaus
1195 2012-03-10 17:17:28 <sipa> help me think: during a reorganisation, is there any reason why db committing after disconnecting or reconnecting some block would be a problem?
1196 2012-03-10 17:18:50 rebroad has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1197 2012-03-10 17:18:52 darkee has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1198 2012-03-10 17:19:16 <sipa> after the initial checks, which are cheap, the only possible errors that can occur are bdb errors
1199 2012-03-10 17:19:47 <sipa> or failing to connect, hmmm
1200 2012-03-10 17:20:05 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: i think it's just the over agressive locking
1201 2012-03-10 17:20:15 <sipa> hmm?
1202 2012-03-10 17:20:58 paraipan has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1203 2012-03-10 17:21:16 <TD> i wonder why bitcoin takes so long to shut down these days
1204 2012-03-10 17:22:21 <sipa> no, in case the new longest chain contains a double spend, you would only detect this during reorganisation, so you want the database to roll back to before the entire reorg in that case
1205 2012-03-10 17:22:48 <sipa> so i suppose a command-line option for the in-normal-operation very unlikely situation of a huge reorg
1206 2012-03-10 17:22:58 <sipa> is the best solution for now
1207 2012-03-10 17:23:35 darkee has joined
1208 2012-03-10 17:23:47 eoss has joined
1209 2012-03-10 17:23:48 eoss has quit (Changing host)
1210 2012-03-10 17:23:48 eoss has joined
1211 2012-03-10 17:24:23 <Graet> 47896 synced up
1212 2012-03-10 17:24:27 * Graet tries to mine again
1213 2012-03-10 17:25:26 <jrmithdobbs> Graet: back up the chain before you try ;p
1214 2012-03-10 17:25:36 <jrmithdobbs> will make things much easier
1215 2012-03-10 17:25:54 <DrHaribo> redownloaded blocks with git head.. stopped at 47895
1216 2012-03-10 17:25:56 RedEmerald has quit (Excess Flood)
1217 2012-03-10 17:26:04 <Graet> its only terstnet on mining rig, no big deal jrmithdobbs  :)
1218 2012-03-10 17:26:05 <DrHaribo> seeing a longer and invalid chain
1219 2012-03-10 17:26:17 <sipa> DrHaribo: 899 now, no?
1220 2012-03-10 17:26:28 <Graet> i'm @ 899
1221 2012-03-10 17:26:31 <sipa> me too
1222 2012-03-10 17:26:38 <jrmithdobbs> Graet: ya just quicker to recover next time it messes up, heh
1223 2012-03-10 17:26:43 <TD> sipa: what i worry about is that the only abnormal thing here, is the date of BIP16 enforcement was wrong
1224 2012-03-10 17:26:49 <Graet> heh tru
1225 2012-03-10 17:26:58 RedEmerald has joined
1226 2012-03-10 17:27:10 <TD> sipa: what happens if 0.6 is deployed to lots of users, then for whatever reason tycho decides to stop enforcing it? potentially every user could stop and need this bizarre hack
1227 2012-03-10 17:27:26 BlueMatt has joined
1228 2012-03-10 17:27:33 <jrmithdobbs> TD: that's exactly my worry
1229 2012-03-10 17:27:53 <jrmithdobbs> maybe not even for bip16 but for any future change
1230 2012-03-10 17:27:59 <[Tycho]> That's what I was asking Gavin about.
1231 2012-03-10 17:28:22 <[Tycho]> He says that everything will be fine, but I really doubt
1232 2012-03-10 17:29:06 <BlueMatt> worst case: you get some crazy chain split fireworks
1233 2012-03-10 17:29:19 <sipa> such a transition to new rules will always be dangerous, but i do not think bitcoin is in a stat where we can say that we won't be needing any changes anymore
1234 2012-03-10 17:29:20 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: ya but they cause the clients to be unrecoverable
1235 2012-03-10 17:29:21 <BlueMatt> but over time, as more people upgrade, it would work itself out
1236 2012-03-10 17:29:26 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: is what we're talking about
1237 2012-03-10 17:29:30 <BlueMatt> it would get really ugly for a while, but it would eventually work
1238 2012-03-10 17:29:48 <BlueMatt> how would clients be unrecoverable?
1239 2012-03-10 17:29:53 <sipa> BlueMatt: read up
1240 2012-03-10 17:29:57 <sipa> oh, you just joined
1241 2012-03-10 17:30:00 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: that issue i saw the other day was not isolated
1242 2012-03-10 17:30:10 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: with bdb and lock ceilings
1243 2012-03-10 17:30:45 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: apparently most people just upgraded and deleted/redownloaded the chain
1244 2012-03-10 17:30:47 <sipa> DrHaribo: 907 now
1245 2012-03-10 17:31:19 <BlueMatt> oh, bdb crap...damn
1246 2012-03-10 17:31:24 <DrHaribo> sipa: I will try to restart with -nolisten.. I just see lots of failed reorgs with the bad chain in my log
1247 2012-03-10 17:31:44 <sipa> DrHaribo: yes, expected; wait till our chain is longer
1248 2012-03-10 17:32:11 <TD> the whole BIP16 thing gets more risky all the time, it seems
1249 2012-03-10 17:32:21 <TD> sigh
1250 2012-03-10 17:32:56 <BlueMatt> yea...
1251 2012-03-10 17:32:57 <TD> i'd be tempted to push the activation 6 months out
1252 2012-03-10 17:33:01 <DrHaribo> sipa: Got 909 now :)
1253 2012-03-10 17:33:03 <TD> rather than constantly setting deadlines that are then missed
1254 2012-03-10 17:33:13 <sipa> TD: will that help?
1255 2012-03-10 17:33:13 <TD> heck make it 12 months. BIP16 is not required for multisig transactions
1256 2012-03-10 17:33:32 <sipa> i fear it will just means 5.7 months of no progress
1257 2012-03-10 17:33:37 <TD> it reduces the risk. hopefully by that point more mining will be on p2pool so an individual rollback has less effect, any issues will have been discovered
1258 2012-03-10 17:33:59 <TD> that assumes you feel BIP16 is progress. i just see it as an optimization, nothing more. add an address type that contains a script, done
1259 2012-03-10 17:34:11 <TD> people can still have multi-factor wallets, which in any event AFAIK nobody is building yet
1260 2012-03-10 17:34:24 <sipa> i see it as an evolution towards moving the scripts to inputs
1261 2012-03-10 17:34:44 <[Tycho]> Scripts should belong to outputs :
1262 2012-03-10 17:34:45 <[Tycho]> )
1263 2012-03-10 17:34:56 <TD> attempting such a fundamental design change == huge risk
1264 2012-03-10 17:35:04 <TD> as this set of bugs is revealing. apparently nobody tested big re-orgs before
1265 2012-03-10 17:35:15 <TD> i don't perceive any value in moving scripts around
1266 2012-03-10 17:35:20 <TD> but i do see a lot of risk
1267 2012-03-10 17:35:30 <TD> the ship has sailed, etc, gavin is committed to this course
1268 2012-03-10 17:35:31 <sipa> actually, artforz once reorganized a few days of testnet before
1269 2012-03-10 17:35:37 <TD> but at least we can try and reduce the risk completely
1270 2012-03-10 17:35:38 <[Tycho]> This WHOLE BIP16/17 thing is caused by a couple of disabled script opcodes.
1271 2012-03-10 17:35:45 <TD> sipa: huge as in number of transactions not blocks
1272 2012-03-10 17:35:54 <sipa> TD: that is the issue, indeed
1273 2012-03-10 17:35:57 <TD> i suspect a testnet re-org is a lot less taxing
1274 2012-03-10 17:36:01 rebroad has joined
1275 2012-03-10 17:36:10 rebroad has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1276 2012-03-10 17:36:37 <sipa> [Tycho]: BIP13 cannot be achieved by just enabling disabled opcodes
1277 2012-03-10 17:37:20 <[Tycho]> sipa: compact multisigs can be achieved by it.
1278 2012-03-10 17:38:02 <sipa> using EC trickery, you mean?
1279 2012-03-10 17:38:27 <[Tycho]> Using string concatenation, to hash all the pubkeys together.
1280 2012-03-10 17:38:48 <sipa> true, that's possible
1281 2012-03-10 17:39:08 <[Tycho]> Concatenation and math opcodes would be so cool...
1282 2012-03-10 17:39:18 agricocb has joined
1283 2012-03-10 17:39:32 <[Tycho]> Without any dirty hacks like BIP16
1284 2012-03-10 17:39:33 <sipa> but enabling disabled opcodes is something that requires a much higher degree of consensus
1285 2012-03-10 17:39:43 <[Tycho]> I would be consent.
1286 2012-03-10 17:39:46 <gmaxwell> [Tycho] just wants to print himself a billion bitcoins.
1287 2012-03-10 17:39:46 <jrmithdobbs> seems like same degree
1288 2012-03-10 17:40:14 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: no, that cannot be done using backward compatibility
1289 2012-03-10 17:40:32 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: you need to upgrade the entire network for that, which takes 2 years or so
1290 2012-03-10 17:40:57 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: it would be a complete flag day, all old nodes would stop working (you've used forbidden opcodes oh no!)
1291 2012-03-10 17:41:41 <jrmithdobbs> well then lets get it scheduled
1292 2012-03-10 17:41:53 <gmaxwell> And the ability to cat and hash is _not_ a replacement for p2sh.  It still fails to allow the recipent of funds to specify scripts in a compact way, generally.
1293 2012-03-10 17:42:00 <luke-jr> hmm, this is interesting.
1294 2012-03-10 17:42:04 <sipa> [Tycho]: as soon as i started thinking about BIP16 as "special code that signifies the actual script is moved to the input", i find it rather beautiful
1295 2012-03-10 17:42:15 <kinlo> to be compatible with bip16/17, what o I need to do, just upgrade to 0.6 once it comes out?
1296 2012-03-10 17:42:18 <Zarutian> p2sh? acronym expansion required, please
1297 2012-03-10 17:42:24 <gmaxwell> kinlo: compatible how?
1298 2012-03-10 17:42:25 <luke-jr> Most developers are more active on the weekend. Except Gavin, and his activity inverses the norm in overall statistics. :p
1299 2012-03-10 17:42:40 RedEmerald has quit (Changing host)
1300 2012-03-10 17:42:40 RedEmerald has joined
1301 2012-03-10 17:42:49 <luke-jr> sipa: but that's not what BIP16 is :p
1302 2012-03-10 17:43:06 <kinlo> gmaxwell: bip16/17 is about getting majority of the hashpower to play, I want to be part of the majority and not be someone creating orphan chains
1303 2012-03-10 17:43:09 <sipa> luke-jr: you choose to see it whatever way you like; i will do the same
1304 2012-03-10 17:43:10 <[Tycho]> sipa: for me it looks like a printf("file.c"); which actually does #include "file.c", pretty confusing and just wrong.
1305 2012-03-10 17:43:14 <kinlo> ie: I want to keep mining
1306 2012-03-10 17:43:41 <gmaxwell> kinlo: with respect to mining, you just upgrade to 0.6 or apply one of the backport patches to older versions. Of course, this only matters if you're solo/p2pool mining.
1307 2012-03-10 17:43:57 <gmaxwell> (If you're RPC mining with a pool you don't have to do anything)
1308 2012-03-10 17:43:58 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: kinlo runs TripleMining
1309 2012-03-10 17:44:10 <kinlo> I'm a seperated case
1310 2012-03-10 17:44:34 <kinlo> I'm just looking into upgrading the pool, but I can't run 0.5.2 in a few days it seems
1311 2012-03-10 17:44:34 <sipa> kinlo: how much GH/s do you have?
1312 2012-03-10 17:44:44 <kinlo> about 70
1313 2012-03-10 17:44:56 <luke-jr> kinlo: 0.5.3
1314 2012-03-10 17:45:01 <sipa> [Tycho]: i understand some people see it that way
1315 2012-03-10 17:45:15 <kinlo> luke-jr: that isn't released yet I asume?
1316 2012-03-10 17:45:18 <TD> for some use cases you just end up having to provide the script out of band anyway
1317 2012-03-10 17:45:23 <luke-jr> kinlo: there's rc3
1318 2012-03-10 17:45:28 <TD> many things involving contracts, for instance (see oracle transactions for an example)
1319 2012-03-10 17:45:35 <sipa> TD: i hope in the future, most cases
1320 2012-03-10 17:45:54 <kinlo> luke-jr: that will be a starting point to remake my patches ontop of, I guess I can find it at the usual location?
1321 2012-03-10 17:46:13 <Zarutian> multisigs, arent those just <hash1> <pubkey1> CHECK_SIG <hash2> <pubkey2> CHECK_SIG AND  kind of transaction script?
1322 2012-03-10 17:46:14 <TD> well, whatever. i dislike the whole thing. too much risk for little/no benefit. but that's the last i'll say for now.
1323 2012-03-10 17:46:31 <luke-jr> kinlo: it's in the stable repo
1324 2012-03-10 17:46:33 <sipa> Zarutian: yes
1325 2012-03-10 17:46:42 <luke-jr> kinlo: it's only bugfixes, so it should merge cleanly with whatever you have
1326 2012-03-10 17:46:44 <sipa> Zarutian: that's one way to do them
1327 2012-03-10 17:47:15 <luke-jr> Zarutian: BIP 16 does some extra ugly hacks to make it slightly more readable
1328 2012-03-10 17:48:41 <luke-jr> Zarutian: I've been pushing for BIP 17+19 instead, which just extends the current system sensibly, but if [Tycho] adopts BIP 16, I'll have to give up on it.
1329 2012-03-10 17:48:43 <BlueMatt> in theory it was a simple, easy upgrade to offer a slight improvement, but in practice, its kinda become a mess...
1330 2012-03-10 17:48:44 <sipa> i think that is exactly one thing BIP16 does not do
1331 2012-03-10 17:48:48 <BlueMatt> oh well, at least its nearly over
1332 2012-03-10 17:48:49 <DrHaribo> Hm, I think I may have submitted a duplicate tx to my bitcoind on testnet. Now it's stuck with "you may need to upgrade" :P
1333 2012-03-10 17:49:38 <DrHaribo> getmemorypool really should return the height, in case you need the correct one to ensure a unique coinbase
1334 2012-03-10 17:50:04 <TD> btw during the transition period network speed might drop a lot, right?
1335 2012-03-10 17:50:10 <DrHaribo> Getting the height with a separate JSON-RPC call means you have a race condition.
1336 2012-03-10 17:50:16 <BlueMatt> TD: true...
1337 2012-03-10 17:50:17 <luke-jr> TD: only if people try to steal
1338 2012-03-10 17:50:26 <TD> if 60% of hash power supports, and somebody starts submitting lots of bad BIP16 transactions, it takes out 40% of hash power
1339 2012-03-10 17:50:30 <TD> potentially ~halving network security
1340 2012-03-10 17:50:32 <sipa> TD: indeed
1341 2012-03-10 17:50:34 <TD> and allowing them to outrun the chain
1342 2012-03-10 17:50:36 <BlueMatt> Im sure some idiot will make a semi-valid bip16 tx to netsplit
1343 2012-03-10 17:50:41 <TD> well it already happened
1344 2012-03-10 17:50:45 <TD> that's why my client got stuck
1345 2012-03-10 17:50:47 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1346 2012-03-10 17:50:58 <luke-jr> DrHaribo: I've considered that it might be useful to have JSON-RPC calls to "lock best chain"
1347 2012-03-10 17:51:19 <TD> we have to assume it will be happening constantly post flag-day
1348 2012-03-10 17:51:21 <BlueMatt> well, Im sure it will happen again on the actual split date
1349 2012-03-10 17:51:25 <sipa> the effect of one such block is not too large though, as it would be caught up after approximate two blocks anyway
1350 2012-03-10 17:51:53 phantomfakeBNC has joined
1351 2012-03-10 17:51:55 <sipa> if someone produces bad BIP16 transactions constantly, and get them to non-upgraded miners, yes...
1352 2012-03-10 17:52:00 <DrHaribo> luke-jr: Yeah, that also might be a good idea
1353 2012-03-10 17:53:00 * luke-jr notes as clients upgrade, invalid P2SH txns will be harder to get to miners
1354 2012-03-10 17:53:08 <sipa> indeed
1355 2012-03-10 17:53:21 <sipa> that is why it is not only miner adoption that counts
1356 2012-03-10 17:53:45 <DrHaribo> Hm, after I submit a duplicate tx with getmemorypool, my bitcoind is broken until I rm blk* and redownload blocks?
1357 2012-03-10 17:54:06 <luke-jr> DrHaribo: sounds like a bug
1358 2012-03-10 17:54:10 <sipa> it is
1359 2012-03-10 17:54:23 <sipa> DrHaribo: you're running git head or rc2 now?
1360 2012-03-10 17:54:32 <DrHaribo> Running git head since last time I rm blk*
1361 2012-03-10 17:54:43 <sipa> no duplicate tx should be accepted?
1362 2012-03-10 17:54:48 <kinlo> luke-jr: it's pretty easy to get something to a miner, it's easy to get a miner's ip and transmit a tx to it...
1363 2012-03-10 17:54:59 <luke-jr> kinlo: I suppose
1364 2012-03-10 17:55:00 <DrHaribo> I tried restarting and no go. I look in debug.log and it keeps getting new blocks from the network. But it still tells me "you may need to upgrade"
1365 2012-03-10 17:55:05 <DrHaribo> It's stuck in this error state
1366 2012-03-10 17:55:20 <sipa> DrHaribo: what is your current height?
1367 2012-03-10 17:55:31 <DrHaribo> 47954
1368 2012-03-10 17:55:35 <sipa> no problem then
1369 2012-03-10 17:55:50 <sipa> the invalid chain is of course longer, we're trying to outrun it
1370 2012-03-10 17:56:00 <DrHaribo> ah now it fixed itself
1371 2012-03-10 17:56:03 <luke-jr> lol
1372 2012-03-10 17:56:06 <DrHaribo> I can "getbalance" again
1373 2012-03-10 17:59:48 <gavinandresen> TD:  I'm about to start yelling as loudly as I can to solo miners / pools "if you don't upgrade you'll almost certainly waste time hashing invalid blocks beginning April 1"
1374 2012-03-10 18:00:42 <gavinandresen> TD: ... so I think the danger of going under 50% BIP16 support after April 1 will be very small.
1375 2012-03-10 18:01:54 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: do it. :p
1376 2012-03-10 18:02:19 <sipa> luke-jr, gavinandresen: any reason not release 0.5.3 as-is, now?
1377 2012-03-10 18:02:20 <luke-jr> (disclaimer: I expect to see at least some kind of pro-BIP17 reaction from that)
1378 2012-03-10 18:02:35 <luke-jr> sipa: I'd like to confirm that guy's issue is indeed a corrupt privkey, if possible
1379 2012-03-10 18:03:28 pklaus has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1380 2012-03-10 18:03:36 <luke-jr> sipa: unless you're pretty certain?
1381 2012-03-10 18:03:38 <[Tycho]> It's not good that after 01.04 a failure of just one pool can lead to catastrophe.
1382 2012-03-10 18:04:01 <gavinandresen> How would a failure of one pool lead to catastrophe?
1383 2012-03-10 18:04:05 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: I don't think it will
1384 2012-03-10 18:04:06 <sipa> luke-jr: it certainly looks like it
1385 2012-03-10 18:04:18 <sipa> (a corrupt privkey)
1386 2012-03-10 18:04:19 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: well, if there was barely a majority, and someone DDoS'd deepbit for 2 hours…
1387 2012-03-10 18:04:38 pklaus has joined
1388 2012-03-10 18:04:44 <gavinandresen> But we won't have a bare majority... as soon as Tycho switches all of his bitcoind's we'll be at... what, 70% support?
1389 2012-03-10 18:04:47 p0s has joined
1390 2012-03-10 18:05:01 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: 75%, since I'm switching Eligius if that happens
1391 2012-03-10 18:05:33 <[Tycho]> 70%, but it can drop to 35% in case of failure
1392 2012-03-10 18:06:06 <gavinandresen> 70 of 100 before.  30 of 60 after if 40 drops out...
1393 2012-03-10 18:06:17 <[Tycho]> Oh, that.
1394 2012-03-10 18:06:50 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1395 2012-03-10 18:07:00 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: unless you're considering support BIP 17, just go ahead with 16…
1396 2012-03-10 18:07:02 <[Tycho]> May be it won't be a catastrophe then.
1397 2012-03-10 18:07:09 <sipa> [Tycho]: you have around 36%, if we have 75% support, and you drop out, it's 39%/64% = 60% left
1398 2012-03-10 18:07:31 denisx has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1399 2012-03-10 18:07:35 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: do you expect to pull anything this weekend?
1400 2012-03-10 18:07:40 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: I'm considering BIP16 not because its better, but because its widely supported.
1401 2012-03-10 18:07:45 denisx has joined
1402 2012-03-10 18:08:20 <[Tycho]> I'm going to deploy it in 1-2 days after fixing the issue.
1403 2012-03-10 18:09:03 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1404 2012-03-10 18:09:09 <luke-jr> there's another issue?
1405 2012-03-10 18:09:41 <[Tycho]> Not sure if you are talking about the same issue or not.
1406 2012-03-10 18:10:13 <luke-jr> I don't recall any issue right now.
1407 2012-03-10 18:10:35 <[Tycho]> It accepts P2SH TXes into the memorypool, but doesn't includes them into mined block somehow.
1408 2012-03-10 18:10:47 <[Tycho]> Don't know the cause of this yet.
1409 2012-03-10 18:10:49 <luke-jr> O.o
1410 2012-03-10 18:11:14 <[Tycho]> May be its not related to Gavin's patch, but I still want to resolve this.
1411 2012-03-10 18:12:01 candlepin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1412 2012-03-10 18:12:23 <sipa> [Tycho]: that doesn't sound too strange
1413 2012-03-10 18:12:34 <gavinandresen> [Tycho]: remember that multisig transactions are larger than singlesig, so they might just end up with a low priority....
1414 2012-03-10 18:12:49 <sipa> gavinandresen: is that intended behaviour or not?
1415 2012-03-10 18:12:57 <[Tycho]> I tried adding fee too, will run more tests today.
1416 2012-03-10 18:13:05 <sipa> BIP16 transactions technically don't exist until the switchover date
1417 2012-03-10 18:13:17 <sipa> but they may be considered standard before
1418 2012-03-10 18:13:20 <[Tycho]> gavinandresen: sending to P2SH is not much larger.
1419 2012-03-10 18:13:21 <gavinandresen> Sure, bigger transactions are more expensive, so it is appropriate that they're lower priority / require bigger fee
1420 2012-03-10 18:13:29 <gavinandresen> [Tycho]: true
1421 2012-03-10 18:13:57 <[Tycho]> Most of my P2SH TXes were mined by BTCguild, even with fees.
1422 2012-03-10 18:13:59 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: krishKM opened issue 923 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/923>
1423 2012-03-10 18:14:24 graingert has joined
1424 2012-03-10 18:15:00 <[Tycho]> As of this moment I didn't managed to mine at least one myself.
1425 2012-03-10 18:17:41 <[Tycho]> gavinandresen: those weren't multisigs, just P2SH
1426 2012-03-10 18:17:52 <[Tycho]> Example: http://blockexplorer.com/tx/d0636198ea55fadee5b4ccc07c85012db7d07c2d25790b3aec770c86617801c0
1427 2012-03-10 18:19:08 <gavinandresen> [Tycho]: ok.  How'd you get a plain-old OP_CHECKSIG in output 0 ?
1428 2012-03-10 18:19:27 paraipan has joined
1429 2012-03-10 18:19:36 <gavinandresen> ahh... your 'send change to a fixed address' patch...
1430 2012-03-10 18:19:41 <[Tycho]> gavinandresen: yes
1431 2012-03-10 18:19:49 <[Tycho]> But it's the same without the change.
1432 2012-03-10 18:20:17 <sipa> [Tycho]: and that transaction was created by you, but.mined by btcguild?
1433 2012-03-10 18:20:19 <[Tycho]> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/658fc92061f1c4125d5cd1034eb8a1f09bfebd32a988d855eb7ee63689759a21
1434 2012-03-10 18:20:24 <[Tycho]> sipa: yes.
1435 2012-03-10 18:21:36 eoss has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1436 2012-03-10 18:21:45 <[Tycho]> Wow, looks like it mined one just now.
1437 2012-03-10 18:21:53 <[Tycho]> Took about one day.
1438 2012-03-10 18:21:58 eoss has joined
1439 2012-03-10 18:21:58 eoss has quit (Changing host)
1440 2012-03-10 18:21:58 eoss has joined
1441 2012-03-10 18:22:39 <[Tycho]> http://blockchain.info/tx-index/3226479/510b5a44935109e249a704c2900aa9d8303166062e81d2ac852c965b6266dcee
1442 2012-03-10 18:23:07 <[Tycho]> Funny thing it wasn't relayed to anyone, even blockchain.info, so it has no way to slip out.
1443 2012-03-10 18:23:45 <gavinandresen> And it was mined in the middle of the ocean off the coast of Africa.... very odd
1444 2012-03-10 18:23:57 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: I'd like to know if you intend to merge any pullreqs this weekend, so I can decide whether to build a BIP16 next-test (and Eligius) now, or wait on it until Mon/Tue.
1445 2012-03-10 18:24:02 <gmaxwell> By that evil 0.0.0.0 IPed miner!
1446 2012-03-10 18:24:07 <Graet> quite a feww blocks show up there gavinandresen ;)
1447 2012-03-10 18:24:12 <[Tycho]> That's my secret underwater testing grounds.
1448 2012-03-10 18:24:17 <luke-jr> lol
1449 2012-03-10 18:24:31 <gmaxwell> [Tycho] is IP 0.0.0.0! mystery solved
1450 2012-03-10 18:24:44 <Graet> thank goodness
1451 2012-03-10 18:24:48 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: I dont' see any critical pullreqs, but if fixes for critical bugs come in then I might pull them.  I'm not the only person able to pull, either....
1452 2012-03-10 18:25:00 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: OK.
1453 2012-03-10 18:25:02 <[Tycho]> Actually I think that it shows 0.0.0.0 because it discovered this transaction only in the blockchain and never received it via p2p
1454 2012-03-10 18:25:17 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: you're the only one who pulls/develops more on weekdays than weekends
1455 2012-03-10 18:25:56 <[Tycho]> I wonder what will happen if I'll try to redeem it in the wrong way :)
1456 2012-03-10 18:26:05 <sipa> gavinandresen: maybe the reorg issue
1457 2012-03-10 18:27:07 <gavinandresen> sipa:  yes, or if somebody figures out the windows RPC crashing issue(s)
1458 2012-03-10 18:27:31 <[Tycho]> If someone forget to push strictbip16date it can produce fireworks in the blockchain :)
1459 2012-03-10 18:27:37 gp5st1 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1460 2012-03-10 18:28:19 dvide has joined
1461 2012-03-10 18:29:14 <gavinandresen> unfortunately, a couple of somebodies did....
1462 2012-03-10 18:30:28 <[Tycho]> Oh, so that's what caused the orphans branch recently ?
1463 2012-03-10 18:30:38 <sipa> yes
1464 2012-03-10 18:30:44 <sipa> rc1 nodes
1465 2012-03-10 18:30:44 <[Tycho]> Cool.
1466 2012-03-10 18:30:49 <sipa> not.cool
1467 2012-03-10 18:31:03 <[Tycho]> Yes, that's what I wanted to say.
1468 2012-03-10 18:31:08 * Zarutian doesnt see the problem with http://pastebin.com/muncSbiA 
1469 2012-03-10 18:31:19 <gavinandresen> Well, look on the bright side, now we know there's an issue with really big re-orgs....
1470 2012-03-10 18:31:53 <luke-jr> Zarutian: you mean BIP 19
1471 2012-03-10 18:32:00 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0019
1472 2012-03-10 18:32:05 <sipa> Zarutian: there is no problem at all with that
1473 2012-03-10 18:32:08 <[Tycho]> EclipseMC, BTCguild and simplecoins ?
1474 2012-03-10 18:32:21 <[Tycho]> gavinandresen: what was the issue ?
1475 2012-03-10 18:32:28 <sipa> but it is not what BIP13 aims for
1476 2012-03-10 18:32:39 <gmaxwell> Zarutian: but thats orthorgonal to what we're talking about, — go read BIP13.
1477 2012-03-10 18:33:02 <gavinandresen> [Tycho]: a big re-org can fail because bdb runs out of locks
1478 2012-03-10 18:33:46 <[Tycho]> I don't see P2SH TXes here... http://blockchain.info/block-index/189533/00000000000003745ea053453caab1f51d7d342416ef8c9731b4cec4c857a29a
1479 2012-03-10 18:34:12 <sipa> why would there be any?
1480 2012-03-10 18:34:33 <[Tycho]> sipa: what caused that forking then ?
1481 2012-03-10 18:35:07 <gavinandresen> Invalid spend of a P2SH input
1482 2012-03-10 18:36:26 <[Tycho]> Do you know the hash of that TX with P2SH input ?
1483 2012-03-10 18:37:22 <sipa> [Tycho]: i expect the forking.tx.to be. in the main chain
1484 2012-03-10 18:37:29 <sipa> not in the forked one
1485 2012-03-10 18:37:33 <gavinandresen> http://blockchain.info/tx-index/3115497/6a26d2ecb67f27d1fa5524763b49029d7106e91e3cc05743073461a719776192
1486 2012-03-10 18:37:39 <Zarutian> gmaxwell: if I understand BIP13 correctly it essentially just does the same as (| delmits the splice between sigScript and pubkeyScript): <script> | DUP HASH160 <hash of script> EQUALVERIFY EVAL
1487 2012-03-10 18:37:54 <gavinandresen> in block 170060 in the main chain'
1488 2012-03-10 18:38:17 <gmaxwell> Zarutian: don't worry about the mechenism, thats provided by BIP16
1489 2012-03-10 18:39:03 <sipa> Zarutian: bip13 is having a single short address that denotes a.spend-scipt-hash
1490 2012-03-10 18:39:04 <gmaxwell> Zarutian: the point is that the recipent of the funds specifies the what the script will be compatctly (by specifiying the hash of the script)
1491 2012-03-10 18:39:07 <Zarutian> gmaxwell: I guess it is a simple opcode that replaces the ops in that psuedo-script.
1492 2012-03-10 18:40:26 <Zarutian> gmaxwell: but the <script> will be provided by the recipiant when those coins are remitted, no?
1493 2012-03-10 18:41:17 <sipa> Zarutian: that is the point yes, moving the actual script to the input
1494 2012-03-10 18:41:20 swulf--1 has joined
1495 2012-03-10 18:41:25 <gmaxwell> Zarutian: correct.
1496 2012-03-10 18:41:47 swulf-- has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1497 2012-03-10 18:42:15 <gmaxwell> There are technically many different ways of actually accomplishing that, BIP16 describes the way we're currently using.
1498 2012-03-10 18:42:38 <sipa> bip12 and bip17 are alternatives
1499 2012-03-10 18:42:49 <[Tycho]> gavinandresen: thanks
1500 2012-03-10 18:43:22 <gavinandresen> [Tycho]: easier to follow at  http://blockexplorer.com/tx/6a26d2ecb67f27d1fa5524763b49029d7106e91e3cc05743073461a719776192
1501 2012-03-10 18:43:46 <gavinandresen> [Tycho]: "they" just included the <script> without the <signatures> ....
1502 2012-03-10 18:43:51 <Zarutian> so, if one can mount a preimage attack on the hash by makeing two <script>s that hash to the same value (using <nonce> DROP in both to nudge the hashes in the right directions)
1503 2012-03-10 18:43:53 <[Tycho]> May be I should create my own blockexplorer too :)
1504 2012-03-10 18:44:08 <Zarutian> then escrow and such wont work.
1505 2012-03-10 18:44:31 <sipa> Zarutian: we assume no preimage attack on ripemd160+sha256
1506 2012-03-10 18:44:42 <[Tycho]> I was expecting to see some mysterious text message in the input script
1507 2012-03-10 18:45:43 <Zarutian> sipa: just a very remote possibility I wanted to point out.
1508 2012-03-10 18:45:52 <gavinandresen> ... if it was a gpg-signed message from Satoshi that said "Gavin sucks" that'd be really cool
1509 2012-03-10 18:46:11 <gmaxwell> Zarutian: if you can mount preimage attacks on sha256 then the signatures themselves are insecure.
1510 2012-03-10 18:46:12 forsetifox has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1511 2012-03-10 18:46:41 <[Tycho]> Yesterday luke-jr told me that he can redeem/intercept my P2SH Txes somehow, but I don't see a way to do this.
1512 2012-03-10 18:47:02 <gmaxwell> Zarutian: so should an issue like that arise we would need to upgrade the cryptosystems regardless. But yes, it was already noticed that p2sh has more inputs available for things like that.
1513 2012-03-10 18:47:14 <BlueMatt> [Tycho]: until they are enforced, miners can do that, yes
1514 2012-03-10 18:47:28 <sipa> [Tycho]: the point is that they *are* not bip16 transactions, since they are mined before the switchover
1515 2012-03-10 18:47:32 <gavinandresen> [Tycho]: he can-- as soon as you public <sig> <script>  to redeem them he can create a new transaction that leaves off the <sig> and just uses the <script>
1516 2012-03-10 18:47:34 <[Tycho]> Unless he was talking about trying to outhash me after the first redeeming
1517 2012-03-10 18:48:36 <gavinandresen> [Tycho]: so either mine the redeeming transactions yourself or wait until after April 1 if you want to make sure they don't get stolen.
1518 2012-03-10 18:48:56 <[Tycho]> BTW, after some weeks or months someone redeemed my test password TX
1519 2012-03-10 18:48:59 <[Tycho]> :)
1520 2012-03-10 18:49:12 <gavinandresen> Was the password "Gavin sucks" ?
1521 2012-03-10 18:49:13 <[Tycho]> I don't even know who
1522 2012-03-10 18:49:24 <gavinandresen> :)
1523 2012-03-10 18:49:37 <[Tycho]> gavinandresen: no, they used the password from my previous spending.
1524 2012-03-10 18:49:54 <Zarutian> gmaxwell: finding two values that hash to the same hash is a bit easier than finding a value that hashes to the same hash as one already given. Cant recall the name of this distinction though. Also I am no cryptography mathematican.
1525 2012-03-10 18:49:54 <gavinandresen> Oh, well that's cheating then
1526 2012-03-10 18:50:19 <sipa> Zarutian: collision vs preimage
1527 2012-03-10 18:50:32 <sipa> Zarutian: but you need the latter here
1528 2012-03-10 18:52:38 <[Tycho]> This was the redeeming: http://blockexplorer.com/tx/81b0bb7be25a496cb12ed5acf834cbaebb8e5dfaffc9c996f33fe24f0f54c883#i4326728
1529 2012-03-10 18:53:08 <[Tycho]> Took them 2 months :
1530 2012-03-10 18:53:09 <[Tycho]> )
1531 2012-03-10 18:55:28 <Zarutian> BIP16 is relies on ugly hack-ism. That is requiring recognisition of the special script form used.
1532 2012-03-10 18:55:47 <[Tycho]> Sadly there are no strange ways to safely send to non-bitcoin addresses :(
1533 2012-03-10 18:56:14 <sipa> gavinandresen: i'm beginning to think it would make sense to put rc version numbers in releases
1534 2012-03-10 18:56:54 <gmaxwell> Zarutian: not actually relevant in this case— when I ask you to payme, I control a fair amount of the data that goes into that signature. Say you have a 1000 BTC coin. I ask you to pay 1btc to an address. If the hash is weak I could select the address such that there is some other txn which pays me more of that coin which has the same hash.
1535 2012-03-10 18:57:42 <sipa> Zarutian: i thought so at first too, but when i started to think about it as "code that says: actual script will be in input", it's rather nice
1536 2012-03-10 18:57:48 <gmaxwell> In the case of a p2sh theft you only control the spending side, which is much harder.
1537 2012-03-10 18:58:28 <sipa> Zarutian: the fact that it is also a valid script to older nodes who can do half-validation is a nice side effect
1538 2012-03-10 18:59:01 <luke-jr> Zarutian: read BIP 17. solves the same problems in a clean way.
1539 2012-03-10 18:59:16 <gmaxwell> (you have to find an arbitrary collission in order to spend someone elses money— though right you could do silly things with an escrow where you do in theory control both— but it would require a weird looking 'real' txn, which presumably your partners wouldn't accept)
1540 2012-03-10 19:00:53 <sipa> but BIP17 doesn't have that half validation, and needs a workaround for checkmultisig instead of being able to fix its sigop counting
1541 2012-03-10 19:00:53 <Zarutian> sipa: I rather have something like OP_PUSH_SIGSCRIPT that pushes the sigscript onto the stack rather than some strange recognition system. Heck it could be the last op of the sigscript to support BIP13 pay2scripthash kind of scriptPubkeys
1542 2012-03-10 19:01:41 <gmaxwell> Zarutian: yea, great, congrats you just reintroduced the OP_RETURN bug. :)
1543 2012-03-10 19:01:55 <luke-jr> Zarutian: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0017
1544 2012-03-10 19:02:21 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: no, it sounds more like BIP 17 before the backward compatibility considerations
1545 2012-03-10 19:02:27 <Zarutian> gmaxwell: howso?
1546 2012-03-10 19:02:42 <sipa> Zarutian: bip12, 16 and 17 are far from the only proposals ever made
1547 2012-03-10 19:03:15 <sipa> there are reasons many others didn't make it into a.bip
1548 2012-03-10 19:03:35 <gmaxwell> Zarutian: if the scriptsig provided script can return true before ever getting to the scriptpubkey then you can spend anything.
1549 2012-03-10 19:03:57 <sipa> and my spacebar is too small on this tablet
1550 2012-03-10 19:04:04 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: which it can't…
1551 2012-03-10 19:04:39 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: right, but if I correctly understood what he was saying above, it could— I know you specifically address that (through 'omg special case hacks')
1552 2012-03-10 19:04:58 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: no, no hacks are needed for BIP 17
1553 2012-03-10 19:05:15 <luke-jr> the problem just never comes up
1554 2012-03-10 19:05:23 <luke-jr> (same goes for the version he just suggesteD)
1555 2012-03-10 19:05:42 <Zarutian> gmaxwell: the only thing OP_PUSH_SIGSCRIPT would do is taking the whole sigScript and push it onto the stack as data, nothing else.
1556 2012-03-10 19:06:07 <gmaxwell> Zarutian: and then how do you run it?
1557 2012-03-10 19:06:11 <luke-jr> …
1558 2012-03-10 19:06:21 <luke-jr> scriptSig runs prior to scriptPubKey always
1559 2012-03-10 19:06:28 <Zarutian> gmaxwell: like all bitcoin txn scripts
1560 2012-03-10 19:07:20 <gmaxwell> Zarutian: Oh you mean like BIP17. yes, fine.
1561 2012-03-10 19:07:29 JRWR has quit (Disconnected by services)
1562 2012-03-10 19:07:34 <gmaxwell> (I thought you were suggesting the BIP12 style opaque script push)
1563 2012-03-10 19:07:41 JRWR has joined
1564 2012-03-10 19:07:45 <sipa> Zarutian: you never want to hash the entire scriptSig
1565 2012-03-10 19:07:59 t7 has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356])
1566 2012-03-10 19:08:17 <luke-jr> sipa: actually, I think there are cases where you really do. :p
1567 2012-03-10 19:08:22 <sipa> maybe
1568 2012-03-10 19:08:23 <Zarutian> sipa: why not?
1569 2012-03-10 19:08:23 <gmaxwell> I'm getting tired of the constant repetition around here.
1570 2012-03-10 19:08:43 <sipa> Zarutian: because the actual script still has.inputs
1571 2012-03-10 19:08:51 <sipa> that are.unknown to the sender
1572 2012-03-10 19:09:14 <luke-jr> hmm
1573 2012-03-10 19:09:18 <sipa> those need to be.inputs to the hashed part of the.script
1574 2012-03-10 19:09:36 <luke-jr> new reason to push BIP 17 over 16… BIP 17 possibly enables sending to specific transactions
1575 2012-03-10 19:09:44 <luke-jr> so you can say "the spender can do X or Y with this"
1576 2012-03-10 19:09:46 <Zarutian> sipa: isnt there a OP_SUBSET_STRING? Why not enable that too?
1577 2012-03-10 19:09:59 <sipa> Zarutian: we cannot enable opcodes
1578 2012-03-10 19:10:07 <sipa> that requires.a.full network upgrade
1579 2012-03-10 19:10:35 <Graet> 48211  are we winning yet sipa ?
1580 2012-03-10 19:10:56 <Graet> oops 12 just mined another ;)
1581 2012-03-10 19:10:58 <DrHaribo> I think the bad guys are over 48300 ?
1582 2012-03-10 19:11:12 <sipa> Zarutian: what would your scriptsig and scriptpubkey look like exactly?
1583 2012-03-10 19:11:20 <Graet> kk getting there then :)
1584 2012-03-10 19:11:41 <luke-jr> would be nice if we could merged-mine testnet <.<
1585 2012-03-10 19:12:03 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: would make it impossible for joe random to do testing with custom mining
1586 2012-03-10 19:12:10 <gmaxwell> because the difficulty would be a million or so.
1587 2012-03-10 19:12:23 <jrmithdobbs> and reverting the whole thing would suck
1588 2012-03-10 19:12:24 <gmaxwell> (would also require a bunch of testnet specific code)
1589 2012-03-10 19:12:38 <jrmithdobbs> and leave crap in the blockchain that shouldn't be there
1590 2012-03-10 19:13:06 <Zarutian> sipa: example scriptPubkey would look like: HASH160 <hash of expected scriptsig> EQUAL like in BIP16
1591 2012-03-10 19:13:16 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: nah, merged mining is generally fine.
1592 2012-03-10 19:13:36 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I'd use TNIAB for that anyhow
1593 2012-03-10 19:13:40 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: but if testnet were reverted it'd still leave remnants
1594 2012-03-10 19:13:45 <sipa> Zarutian: ok, what is the scriptSig?
1595 2012-03-10 19:13:49 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: no, it wouldn't.
1596 2012-03-10 19:13:49 <jrmithdobbs> s/reverted/restarted/
1597 2012-03-10 19:14:50 <sipa> Zarutian: whatever you want to push using a special push, i see, and i create another transaction that just pushes that.normally,.without executing
1598 2012-03-10 19:15:12 <Zarutian> sipa: I see
1599 2012-03-10 19:15:13 gp5st has joined
1600 2012-03-10 19:15:15 <sipa> and i broadcast that transaction to my 3000 connected nodes
1601 2012-03-10 19:15:33 <Zarutian> the old pay to password hash problem
1602 2012-03-10 19:15:38 <sipa> indeed
1603 2012-03-10 19:15:53 <luke-jr> Zarutian: if you solve all the problems, you eventually get BIP 17
1604 2012-03-10 19:16:08 <sipa> you need a.special behaviour in the.scriptpubkey that can refer back to scriptsig
1605 2012-03-10 19:16:24 <sipa> either.an.extra.opcode,.or a.special.sequence
1606 2012-03-10 19:16:59 smtmnyz has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
1607 2012-03-10 19:17:01 * sipa -> keyboard
1608 2012-03-10 19:17:07 smtmnyz_ has joined
1609 2012-03-10 19:18:06 <Zarutian> sipa: humm..
1610 2012-03-10 19:18:27 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Why is the alphabet in that order?   Is it because of that song?)
1611 2012-03-10 19:19:16 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1612 2012-03-10 19:20:49 <sipa> Zarutian: hum?
1613 2012-03-10 19:20:58 <Zarutian> sipa: you have convinced me. BIP17 solves the problem in this particular usage.
1614 2012-03-10 19:21:13 <sipa> it does, it is one of the solutions
1615 2012-03-10 19:23:21 <Zarutian> but it does require that scriptsig hashes to be in a sperate ?number/name?-space from the usual bitcoin addresses.
1616 2012-03-10 19:23:34 <sipa> of course
1617 2012-03-10 19:23:51 <sipa> as BIP13 specifies
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1621 2012-03-10 19:30:35 <Zarutian> hmm.. so any kind of sigscript can be supported (for example "<hashOfpasscode> HASH256 <pubkey> CHECKSIG" for passcode locked coins)
1622 2012-03-10 19:30:44 <Zarutian> BIP17 gets my vote
1623 2012-03-10 19:31:21 <Zarutian> s/HASH256/HASH256 EQUAL/
1624 2012-03-10 19:31:43 <luke-jr> Zarutian: got significant hashpower by any chance? :p
1625 2012-03-10 19:31:47 copumpkin has joined
1626 2012-03-10 19:31:51 <Zarutian> EQUALVERIFY was it supposed to be
1627 2012-03-10 19:37:19 graingert has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1628 2012-03-10 19:39:31 Cablesaurus has joined
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1630 2012-03-10 19:39:31 Cablesaurus has joined
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1633 2012-03-10 19:49:26 localhost has joined
1634 2012-03-10 19:49:59 <sipa> Graet, DrHaribo: we already outran the other chain, but let's continue until 48400, ok?
1635 2012-03-10 19:50:21 <DrHaribo> ok
1636 2012-03-10 19:52:09 <Graet> ok
1637 2012-03-10 19:52:35 * Graet hopes he isnt raising difficulty too much
1638 2012-03-10 19:52:47 * Graet got impatient and sent another ghash a while ago
1639 2012-03-10 19:54:19 <DrHaribo> wow, I even merged mined a namecoin testnet block :P
1640 2012-03-10 19:54:35 <DrHaribo> (difficulty 1144)
1641 2012-03-10 19:54:36 <Graet> dont break it now!!!! :P
1642 2012-03-10 19:54:45 <DrHaribo> hehe
1643 2012-03-10 19:57:59 <luke-jr> sipa: BIP30 is now live on Eligius
1644 2012-03-10 19:58:15 <luke-jr> namecoin has a testnet? O.o
1645 2012-03-10 19:58:56 <DrHaribo> Well, a pretty useless testnet with 1144 difficulty
1646 2012-03-10 19:59:02 <sipa> luke-jr: good, i heard it was fully deployed on btcguild as well
1647 2012-03-10 19:59:40 <DrHaribo> Is there an RC or something with BIP30, or do you run git head?
1648 2012-03-10 19:59:56 <luke-jr> DrHaribo: I run an older next-test derivative.
1649 2012-03-10 20:00:03 <luke-jr> DrHaribo: BIP30 is also part of 0.4.4rc3 and 0.5.3rc3
1650 2012-03-10 20:00:04 <sipa> DrHaribo: 0.5.3rc3 has BIP30
1651 2012-03-10 20:00:18 <sipa> luke-jr: how many GH/s does eligius have now?
1652 2012-03-10 20:00:24 <luke-jr> sipa: about 350 GH/s
1653 2012-03-10 20:01:28 <sipa> ok, around 26% effective support
1654 2012-03-10 20:01:43 <sipa> though deepbit's is only temporary
1655 2012-03-10 20:01:49 <denisx> sipa: my pool has it with 160GH/s
1656 2012-03-10 20:01:56 <sipa> denisx: what is it called?
1657 2012-03-10 20:01:56 <luke-jr> 26% includes BTCG and Deepbit? O.o
1658 2012-03-10 20:02:06 <denisx> btcmp.com
1659 2012-03-10 20:02:07 <sipa> luke-jr: btcg and 1/4 of deepbit
1660 2012-03-10 20:02:58 <sipa> denisx: thanks; i've listed you on the forum
1661 2012-03-10 20:03:06 <sipa> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67738.msg788481#msg788481
1662 2012-03-10 20:05:04 candlepin has joined
1663 2012-03-10 20:05:19 splatster has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
1664 2012-03-10 20:07:37 <denisx> thanks
1665 2012-03-10 20:11:37 <Graet> 48416 sipa
1666 2012-03-10 20:11:54 <Graet> might go back to realnet now i've got n10k + testnet coins lol
1667 2012-03-10 20:12:07 <sipa> same here
1668 2012-03-10 20:12:18 <vegard> how could there ever be a "permanent fork"? wouldn't any clients still using the old version switch to the new chain when they upgraded?
1669 2012-03-10 20:12:19 <sipa> thanks for the hash power!
1670 2012-03-10 20:12:27 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: luke-jr opened issue 924 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/924>
1671 2012-03-10 20:12:29 <Graet> no probs mjan
1672 2012-03-10 20:12:30 <sipa> vegard: yes
1673 2012-03-10 20:12:43 <Graet> you know where to find me if you need it another time ;)
1674 2012-03-10 20:12:48 <sipa> permanent in the sense of non-conferging
1675 2012-03-10 20:12:53 <sipa> *converging
1676 2012-03-10 20:12:57 <DrHaribo> Time to try switching off -nolisten ;)
1677 2012-03-10 20:13:02 <sipa> it will converge again if people upgrade of course
1678 2012-03-10 20:15:11 userhdd has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1679 2012-03-10 20:15:12 <denisx> has anybody an idea why I can't use the system() call in bitcoind?
1680 2012-03-10 20:16:32 <BlueMatt> use the boost equivalent, I know that works
1681 2012-03-10 20:16:36 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1682 2012-03-10 20:16:38 <BlueMatt> as to your question, I have nfc
1683 2012-03-10 20:16:52 <sipa> denisx: what are you trying to do?
1684 2012-03-10 20:17:01 danbri has joined
1685 2012-03-10 20:17:11 <denisx> sipa: system("killall -USR1 pushpoold");
1686 2012-03-10 20:17:12 <denisx> ;)
1687 2012-03-10 20:17:27 <sipa> which OS?
1688 2012-03-10 20:17:34 <denisx> FreeBSD
1689 2012-03-10 20:18:06 <denisx> the compiler says the system() would be ambiguous
1690 2012-03-10 20:18:21 <sipa> try ::system(), maybe
1691 2012-03-10 20:19:32 <denisx> yeah, that did the trick
1692 2012-03-10 20:19:34 <denisx> cool
1693 2012-03-10 20:21:54 <yellowhat> is any action required if i run bitcoinj 0.4 as a client in regards to BIP30 ?
1694 2012-03-10 20:22:34 <sipa> bitcoinj does not verify blocks, afaik
1695 2012-03-10 20:23:08 userjgg has joined
1696 2012-03-10 20:26:03 <luke-jr> denisx: -blocknotify='killall -USR1 pushpoold'
1697 2012-03-10 20:27:24 <denisx> duh, really?
1698 2012-03-10 20:27:28 <denisx> is that new?
1699 2012-03-10 20:27:39 * gmaxwell must resist urge to respond "if you have 50k btc and know this little about the system you really ought to sell them now"
1700 2012-03-10 20:28:31 <denisx> I don't have 50k btc
1701 2012-03-10 20:28:35 <denisx> ,)
1702 2012-03-10 20:28:37 <denisx> ;)
1703 2012-03-10 20:28:55 <gmaxwell> I'm speaking of https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/923#issuecomment-4433777
1704 2012-03-10 20:29:19 <BlueMatt> ...wow
1705 2012-03-10 20:29:24 <sipa> gmaxwell: please so do
1706 2012-03-10 20:30:19 <Graet> lol
1707 2012-03-10 20:31:10 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1708 2012-03-10 20:31:37 <gmaxwell> Done.
1709 2012-03-10 20:32:41 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gavinandresen opened issue 925 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/925>
1710 2012-03-10 20:34:30 <Graet> good work gmaxwell
1711 2012-03-10 20:34:31 <Graet> :)
1712 2012-03-10 20:34:31 <denisx> luke-jr: ok, that is not part of any official client
1713 2012-03-10 20:35:02 <sipa> denisx: it's oin 0.6.0
1714 2012-03-10 20:35:13 <denisx> sipa: its not official out, right? ;)
1715 2012-03-10 20:35:19 <sipa> no
1716 2012-03-10 20:35:33 <sipa> i reformulate; it will be in 0.6.0
1717 2012-03-10 20:35:45 <denisx> ;)
1718 2012-03-10 20:36:38 <luke-jr> denisx: there is no such thing as official
1719 2012-03-10 20:37:28 <denisx> maybe, but I don't want to run beta releases on my pool
1720 2012-03-10 20:39:04 <sipa> all bitcoin releases have been beta so far ;)
1721 2012-03-10 20:39:14 <denisx> damn, you got me
1722 2012-03-10 20:39:23 <BlueMatt> funny, arent release candidates technically after beta?
1723 2012-03-10 20:39:47 <sipa> yes, the -beta in the version number confused me at first too
1724 2012-03-10 20:40:40 <[Tycho]> sipa: how big was the blockchain part saved to disk for reorg ?
1725 2012-03-10 20:40:55 <sipa> ?
1726 2012-03-10 20:41:12 <gmaxwell> denisx: the 0.6 release has been basically delayed for the bip16 transition.
1727 2012-03-10 20:41:12 <gavinandresen> I think we'll be out of beta when I can tell my Mom to run bitcoin and not worry about her losing her coins, and when we've passed the 50->25 BTC reward milestone
1728 2012-03-10 20:41:18 <[Tycho]> sipa: see issue 925
1729 2012-03-10 20:42:04 <sipa> gavinandresen: i found a way to make reorgs smaller db transactions in this particular case
1730 2012-03-10 20:42:13 <gavinandresen> sipa: nice!
1731 2012-03-10 20:42:32 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: sounds good, looks like we have a target date for 1.0 ;)
1732 2012-03-10 20:43:21 <sipa> during re-adding blocks, you can check whether you are *now* passed the previous best chain, and if so, commit the db transactions, and do all further addings as normal acceptblocks again
1733 2012-03-10 20:43:30 <sipa> each in a seperate db tx
1734 2012-03-10 20:44:11 <sipa> in this case, were there is basically a split of 1, 2 blocks suffices for making it the new longest chain
1735 2012-03-10 20:44:16 <gmaxwell> sipa: sounds like that could still be a risk if the split is long enough.
1736 2012-03-10 20:44:46 <sipa> yes, it's very specific
1737 2012-03-10 20:45:06 <sipa> for normally occurring reorganisations, this doesn't help (but those are normally not large either)
1738 2012-03-10 20:45:14 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
1739 2012-03-10 20:45:14 <gribble> 170571
1740 2012-03-10 20:45:28 <sipa> TD had a reorg of over 500 realnet blocks
1741 2012-03-10 20:45:53 <sipa> but only the first 1-2 of them were really "reorg"
1742 2012-03-10 20:46:15 <denisx> is there an estimation when the 50->25 bitchoin change will happen?
1743 2012-03-10 20:46:40 <sipa> denisx: december
1744 2012-03-10 20:47:30 <denisx> sipa: sure, we were mostly always faster than 2 weeks, so it should have moved a little
1745 2012-03-10 20:49:38 paraipan has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1746 2012-03-10 20:50:44 paraipan has joined
1747 2012-03-10 20:50:50 <[Tycho]> sipa: I was talking about that reorg caused by bad P2SH TX
1748 2012-03-10 20:51:04 <sipa> [Tycho]: yes, around 500 blocks
1749 2012-03-10 20:51:11 <sipa> from the bad tx until now
1750 2012-03-10 20:51:47 <[Tycho]> What caused the reorg ? Update of the client or death of bad branch ?
1751 2012-03-10 20:52:07 <sipa> update of client
1752 2012-03-10 20:52:23 <sipa> newly received block was suddenly in the new best valid chain
1753 2012-03-10 20:52:33 <sipa> even though there was only a fork of 1 block
1754 2012-03-10 20:53:04 <gmaxwell> (that fork is now longer than 1 block, but yea, it was still failing when it was only 1)
1755 2012-03-10 20:53:28 * Eliel thinks it'd make much more sense to have the BIP16 code read the support "votes" from the blockchain rather than having a hardcoded activation date.
1756 2012-03-10 20:53:53 <sipa> Eliel: no deadline == no progress :)
1757 2012-03-10 20:56:16 <gavinandresen> Well, I know I've learned a lot of lessons from this process.  When the dust settles I'll write them all down so we make different mistakes next time
1758 2012-03-10 20:58:41 <sipa> does anyway still have a buggy blk0001.dat/blkindex.dat from rc1?
1759 2012-03-10 21:00:14 splatster has joined
1760 2012-03-10 21:01:34 <candlepin> allow arbitrary data in the script so that new transaction capabilities dont require mass client updates
1761 2012-03-10 21:01:59 <sipa> candlepin: data in scripts is not the problem
1762 2012-03-10 21:02:06 <sipa> they need to be verified
1763 2012-03-10 21:02:24 skeledrew has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1764 2012-03-10 21:03:12 skeledrew has joined
1765 2012-03-10 21:03:12 <candlepin> old clients just wont recognize the ticket until they upgrade - graceful degradation
1766 2012-03-10 21:04:14 <sipa> how is that different from what we do now?
1767 2012-03-10 21:05:08 <candlepin> well old clients are rejecting the whole sub-chain if they an unknown op for instance
1768 2012-03-10 21:05:39 <sipa> no, exactly not!
1769 2012-03-10 21:05:56 <sipa> read how BIP12 worked
1770 2012-03-10 21:06:07 <sipa> and BIP17
1771 2012-03-10 21:06:23 <sipa> tehy rely on the fact that unknown opcodes evaluate to true for old clients
1772 2012-03-10 21:06:47 <sipa> if that wasn't the case, no opcodes could be added without a full network upgrade
1773 2012-03-10 21:07:26 <candlepin> yeah OP_NOP has limited extensibility. what if your new script isn't even based on the traditional stack semantics?
1774 2012-03-10 21:07:36 <forsetifox> Anyone elses bitcoin client in the "cathing up" mode?
1775 2012-03-10 21:07:41 <sipa> candlepin: then you need a full network upgrade
1776 2012-03-10 21:07:42 <forsetifox> Make that catching up.
1777 2012-03-10 21:08:10 <gavinandresen> Huh?  We could define OP_NOP4 to take the top item on the stack and interpret it as a Lisp expression.....
1778 2012-03-10 21:08:14 <candlepin> well you could encode your script as data on the stack potentially
1779 2012-03-10 21:08:21 <candlepin> yeah
1780 2012-03-10 21:08:27 <sipa> yes, sure, using the BIP12 trick, sure
1781 2012-03-10 21:08:47 <sipa> as long as you can hide it behind the semantics of an operation that is currently allowed (OP_NOPx)
1782 2012-03-10 21:09:13 <gavinandresen> Exactly the same issues about when there are enough miners supporting it to actually rely on it to be verified instead of treated as a no-op by most of the network, though
1783 2012-03-10 21:09:52 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: fwiw, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/926
1784 2012-03-10 21:09:54 <candlepin> people may want to do private scripts, an unlimited variety of them, without upgrading the network. so that might be something for a future BIP: an op for some kind of extensible script that's opaque to clients
1785 2012-03-10 21:10:22 <candlepin> OP_WHATEVER
1786 2012-03-10 21:11:07 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: is it just my C++ cluelessness or does the invocation of the CleanWalletPassphrase thread have a really small memory leak?
1787 2012-03-10 21:11:41 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: still, I thought sipa fixed that...
1788 2012-03-10 21:11:46 <sipa> gmaxwell: if it has one, it is my fault
1789 2012-03-10 21:12:13 <gmaxwell> sipa: the int passed to it is new int but I don't see a matching delete anywhere.
1790 2012-03-10 21:12:20 <sipa> gmaxwell: last line
1791 2012-03-10 21:12:29 <sipa> delete (int*)parg;
1792 2012-03-10 21:12:41 <gavinandresen> I commented on the issue:  couldn't it be walletpassphrase "foo"  <64-bit-integer-timeout>
1793 2012-03-10 21:12:44 <gmaxwell> durr.
1794 2012-03-10 21:12:53 <sipa> gmaxwell: it should be moved to the second line, actually
1795 2012-03-10 21:13:14 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: since the timeout is in seconds there isn't any real need for it to be 64 bits, I think.
1796 2012-03-10 21:13:24 <gavinandresen> It'd make the code simpler.
1797 2012-03-10 21:13:33 <forsetifox> I this bad? "ERROR: ConnectInputs() : c94795182c mapTransactions prev not found 1b7a2e909d ERROR: AcceptToMemoryPool() : ConnectInputs failed c94795182c"
1798 2012-03-10 21:13:34 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gmaxwell opened pull request 926 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/926>
1799 2012-03-10 21:13:36 <gavinandresen> (that double-cast gives me the willies)
1800 2012-03-10 21:14:06 <gmaxwell> Fine enough.
1801 2012-03-10 21:14:54 <BlueMatt> btw, you can run bitcoin-qt.exe in valgrind in wine and get (somewhat) useful messages if anyone has the time to debug rpc issues
1802 2012-03-10 21:15:36 <sipa> valgrind + wine :o
1803 2012-03-10 21:15:51 <gavinandresen> ... that gives me the willies, too....
1804 2012-03-10 21:15:55 <sipa> let's try it!
1805 2012-03-10 21:16:02 <BlueMatt> http://wiki.winehq.org/Wine_and_Valgrind
1806 2012-03-10 21:16:28 <BlueMatt> it gives quite a few wine issues, but at least bitcoin-qt is debugged...
1807 2012-03-10 21:16:35 <gmaxwell> Thats like mixing booze and valium! danger! danger!
1808 2012-03-10 21:17:05 Diablo-D3 has joined
1809 2012-03-10 21:17:49 <BlueMatt> which one's which?
1810 2012-03-10 21:18:03 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1811 2012-03-10 21:18:25 <sipa> obviously wine counts as booze
1812 2012-03-10 21:18:33 <BlueMatt> heh, ok
1813 2012-03-10 21:18:37 <sipa> i mean
1814 2012-03-10 21:18:44 <sipa> it's called wine for some reason
1815 2012-03-10 21:19:13 <BlueMatt> oh, well then obviously...
1816 2012-03-10 21:20:01 denisx has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1817 2012-03-10 21:20:01 <sipa> and valium is a medicine, medicines fight bugs in your body
1818 2012-03-10 21:20:24 <BlueMatt> well in that case, valium would have to be valgrind...
1819 2012-03-10 21:20:48 <sipa> there you go!
1820 2012-03-10 21:23:41 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: luke-jr opened issue 927 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/927>
1821 2012-03-10 21:24:18 diki has quit ()
1822 2012-03-10 21:25:19 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
1823 2012-03-10 21:27:17 <[Tycho]> Oh, tonal again :(
1824 2012-03-10 21:27:43 <BlueMatt> nope
1825 2012-03-10 21:27:50 <BlueMatt> mBTC, etc
1826 2012-03-10 21:27:53 <luke-jr> technically yep
1827 2012-03-10 21:28:01 <luke-jr> I'm finding bugs while developing the tbc branch :p
1828 2012-03-10 21:28:19 <BlueMatt> well, ok but it effects mBTC too
1829 2012-03-10 21:28:29 <luke-jr> that's why it's a bug, and not part of my branch ;)
1830 2012-03-10 21:31:43 <Eliel> that looks like a very simple bug to write patch for.
1831 2012-03-10 21:31:57 * BlueMatt thinks Eliel just signed himself up :)
1832 2012-03-10 21:34:20 <yellowhat> im confused..  tbc (tonal) is bitcoin in hexadecimal notation? why not just call it hexadecimal?
1833 2012-03-10 21:34:29 <luke-jr> yellowhat: tonal is hexadecimal++
1834 2012-03-10 21:34:52 <luke-jr> yellowhat: hexadecimal is an incomplete system hacking letters on as high-bit digits; tonal has actual numeric digits, units, time, dates, etc
1835 2012-03-10 21:35:17 Samuel has joined
1836 2012-03-10 21:35:19 <luke-jr> ie, fit for daily use
1837 2012-03-10 21:35:22 <Samuel> Hello, Sam here
1838 2012-03-10 21:35:56 mcorlett is now known as mircea_popescu
1839 2012-03-10 21:36:08 <BlueMatt> hi Samuel
1840 2012-03-10 21:36:24 <Samuel> Hey Matt, guess what? Another mockup: http://cl.ly/3l3V321y3d0z3S2H2x1e
1841 2012-03-10 21:37:55 <luke-jr> that does actually look nice IMO
1842 2012-03-10 21:38:10 <Samuel> Oh hey luke, I thought you would like this one!
1843 2012-03-10 21:38:34 <BlueMatt> nice
1844 2012-03-10 21:38:42 <BlueMatt> looks cool...
1845 2012-03-10 21:38:47 <Samuel> Thanks
1846 2012-03-10 21:39:56 <Samuel> I thought the Wiki article links and resource links would be helpful to starters or frequent visitors
1847 2012-03-10 21:40:21 SomeoneWeirdzzz is now known as SomeoneWeird
1848 2012-03-10 21:40:35 <luke-jr> might add an Exchange tab too
1849 2012-03-10 21:40:51 <luke-jr> but that requires some kind of standard for installing exchanges <.<
1850 2012-03-10 21:40:58 <luke-jr> so maybe save it for the future
1851 2012-03-10 21:41:24 <Samuel> yeah, possibly in the prefrences you could choose your preferable exchange
1852 2012-03-10 21:42:17 coingenuity has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1853 2012-03-10 21:42:27 <Samuel> Although this design isn't as "sleek" I think its more practical.
1854 2012-03-10 21:43:08 mircea_popescu is now known as mcorlett
1855 2012-03-10 21:44:07 <Samuel> brb
1856 2012-03-10 21:45:51 <Samuel> back
1857 2012-03-10 21:48:33 <gmaxwell> sipa: got some weird twilight zone behavior, unlocking with 999999999999999  then killing (TERM) gets me "terminate called after throwing an instance of 'boost::interprocess::lock_exception'\n what():  boost::interprocess::lock_exception" pretty reliably
1858 2012-03-10 21:48:55 <gmaxwell> 99999999999999 (dropping a 9) never does.
1859 2012-03-10 21:49:15 <gmaxwell> both should fit just fine even when scaled to microseconds, and the getinfo results look normal either way.
1860 2012-03-10 21:50:05 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1861 2012-03-10 21:50:47 <tcatm> Samuel: Looks pretty good!
1862 2012-03-10 21:51:52 <tcatm> Should be easier to do with Qt as well.
1863 2012-03-10 21:52:02 pklaus_ has joined
1864 2012-03-10 21:52:13 <tcatm> Can you send me the icons (with license details if possible)?
1865 2012-03-10 21:52:20 <gmaxwell> sipa: (I'm guessing that Sleep has some bug if you ask for too much and its busylooping in the locking code?)
1866 2012-03-10 21:52:55 pklaus has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1867 2012-03-10 21:52:55 pklaus_ is now known as pklaus
1868 2012-03-10 21:53:20 <Samuel> Oh hey Nils
1869 2012-03-10 21:53:50 <Samuel> Sorry, what are license details?
1870 2012-03-10 21:53:53 <sipa> gmaxwell: meh
1871 2012-03-10 21:54:08 <sipa> Samuel: GPL, CC, BSD, ...
1872 2012-03-10 21:54:17 <Samuel> They are just default icons for mac OS
1873 2012-03-10 21:54:54 <gmaxwell> sipa: yep. must be it... I stuck a printf in there and in the 999999999999999 case the printf is firing thousands of times per second. :(
1874 2012-03-10 21:55:49 <tcatm> Samuel: We need open/free icons with very permissive licenses.
1875 2012-03-10 21:56:26 <luke-jr> Samuel: you can't just use someone's icons
1876 2012-03-10 21:56:43 <Samuel> Yeah, for the mockup I used the finder window ones. I know you can't just use someones icons
1877 2012-03-10 21:56:57 <userjgg> Samuel: will you develop this new interface?
1878 2012-03-10 21:57:14 <tcatm> Samuel: What are the start/end colors of the highlight gradient?
1879 2012-03-10 21:57:21 <gmaxwell> sipa: I could make the wallet code clamp the sleeptime there... but I'm now concerned that some of our other sleeps might not work right.. (though I can't think of why any would sleep for 7.6e8 years)
1880 2012-03-10 21:57:30 <Samuel> I'll get that for you once sec
1881 2012-03-10 21:58:04 <Samuel> userjgg: tcatm and I are trying to make something out of my mockups
1882 2012-03-10 21:58:16 Turingi has joined
1883 2012-03-10 21:58:25 devrandom has joined
1884 2012-03-10 21:58:32 <userjgg> Samuel: good to know
1885 2012-03-10 21:59:04 <Samuel> tcatm: BBC4D5 to 9DAAC4
1886 2012-03-10 21:59:26 <sipa> gmaxwell: i suppose a limit of 100 years is safe :)
1887 2012-03-10 21:59:29 <gmaxwell> sipa: I'm guessing the boost sleep turns the time into nanoseconds and fails when the wake time crosses 2^63 nanoseconds since the epoch, probably safe to clamp the sleep time in that thread...
1888 2012-03-10 21:59:47 <tcatm> Samuel: Thanks. Background and textcolors?
1889 2012-03-10 21:59:53 denisx has joined
1890 2012-03-10 22:00:22 <Samuel> tcatm: I'm going to look for a set of royalty free icons that fit our needs. I'll get that info one sec.
1891 2012-03-10 22:00:32 pklaus has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1892 2012-03-10 22:01:15 <sipa> gmaxwell: that will make it fail in 2262
1893 2012-03-10 22:01:18 <Samuel> tcatm: Sidebar fill dfe4eb
1894 2012-03-10 22:01:53 <Samuel> tcatm: Main gray part fill is ededed
1895 2012-03-10 22:02:48 <Samuel> Text colors coming up
1896 2012-03-10 22:03:05 <sipa> gmaxwell: i refactored some code to limit reorganize's db impact
1897 2012-03-10 22:03:10 <sipa> any idea how to test it?
1898 2012-03-10 22:03:58 <coderrr> hey has anyone discussed broadcasting an ordered list of tx-hashes along w block headers and any extra data rather than full blocks as a way to reduce network traffic?
1899 2012-03-10 22:04:08 <Samuel> tcatm: For the headers above the rounded boxes the text is 414141 with a subtle white drop shodow
1900 2012-03-10 22:05:02 <Samuel> tcatm: the text inside the rounded boxes is 9e9e9e
1901 2012-03-10 22:05:09 <sipa> coderrr: i've thought about that, yes
1902 2012-03-10 22:05:33 <coderrr> sipa, cool, yea i figured that wasn't news
1903 2012-03-10 22:05:45 <sipa> most of your peers already know the transactions already anyway
1904 2012-03-10 22:05:51 <coderrr> right
1905 2012-03-10 22:06:18 <coderrr> and you coudl probly get away with only a small  # of bytes of each of the tx hashes
1906 2012-03-10 22:06:35 <sipa> i wouldn't shrink those further
1907 2012-03-10 22:06:40 <coderrr> maybe useful when more ppl actually use btc
1908 2012-03-10 22:07:42 <Samuel> tcatm: The tab names inside the sidebar are black and the "MY BITCOIN" is 707e8c with a subtle white drop shadow (But i'm not sure if we even need that text.)
1909 2012-03-10 22:07:42 <coderrr> sipa, even if some were ambiguous because some new txs snuck in after the block info was sent out, a client could try all possibilies until one matched the block hash
1910 2012-03-10 22:07:58 <coderrr> of course i guess that could be used to dos ppl, but a client could always fall back on requestin ga full block
1911 2012-03-10 22:08:16 <Samuel> tcatm: Are you getting all this?
1912 2012-03-10 22:08:29 <coderrr> but yea maybe that savings is pointless anyway
1913 2012-03-10 22:08:52 <tcatm> Yep. What's the text color for the "tabs" (Overview, Send, Receive,...)?
1914 2012-03-10 22:09:13 smtmnyz_ has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
1915 2012-03-10 22:09:18 smtmnyz has joined
1916 2012-03-10 22:09:51 <Samuel> Black. (With a subtle white drop shadow.) When the tab is selected the text is white with a 434c5f dropshadow
1917 2012-03-10 22:10:33 <tcatm> I don't think we can do dropshadows easily in Qt :/
1918 2012-03-10 22:10:56 <sipa> Samuel: keep going; bitcoin-qt 0.7.0 will look awesome :p
1919 2012-03-10 22:11:14 <sipa> tcatm: you too
1920 2012-03-10 22:11:41 <Samuel> Hmm. the drop shadows would really be a nice addition, it gives the app depth, so it doesn't look so flat
1921 2012-03-10 22:11:48 <tcatm> Samuel: What's the padding around the tab items?
1922 2012-03-10 22:12:02 <Samuel> sipa: thanks I hope the next bitcoin will be awesome
1923 2012-03-10 22:13:27 <tcatm> Also, how should the tabs look when the user hovers them?
1924 2012-03-10 22:13:37 <Samuel> tcatm: 8px spacing between the tabs, and 22px from the left are the icons
1925 2012-03-10 22:14:26 <Samuel> Either the text turns blue or just plain nothing, can't be anything too harsh of a change
1926 2012-03-10 22:15:17 <userjgg> 0.7 will download only header until full bockchain is downloaded on background?
1927 2012-03-10 22:15:42 <BlueMatt> if someone has the time to code it, maybe
1928 2012-03-10 22:16:10 <userjgg> ok
1929 2012-03-10 22:16:35 <Samuel> tcatm: Maybe the text turns 1c4081 on hover
1930 2012-03-10 22:16:36 <sipa> i hope to have in 0.7: addrman, ipv6, determinstic wallets :p
1931 2012-03-10 22:17:08 pklaus has joined
1932 2012-03-10 22:17:59 * BlueMatt has been considering writing what userjgg just said based on cblockstore for 0.7
1933 2012-03-10 22:18:02 <Samuel> Wouldn't the next version be 0.6 not 0.7?
1934 2012-03-10 22:18:02 <BlueMatt> (if he finds the time)
1935 2012-03-10 22:18:14 <BlueMatt> 0.6 is already feature-freeze and is due out pretty soon
1936 2012-03-10 22:18:19 <BlueMatt> well, with bip16
1937 2012-03-10 22:18:37 <tcatm> Samuel: Looks good.
1938 2012-03-10 22:18:43 <Samuel> So is there a 0.6 out there I don't have?
1939 2012-03-10 22:18:51 <Samuel> tcatm: Screenshot?
1940 2012-03-10 22:18:56 <BlueMatt> 0.6rc
1941 2012-03-10 22:19:00 <BlueMatt> 0.6rc2 is out
1942 2012-03-10 22:19:02 <userjgg> Samuel: i think the B icon should be orange when the balance isnot zero
1943 2012-03-10 22:19:11 pklaus has quit (Client Quit)
1944 2012-03-10 22:19:16 forsetifox has left ()
1945 2012-03-10 22:19:19 <Samuel> userjgg: agreed
1946 2012-03-10 22:19:33 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
1947 2012-03-10 22:19:33 <gribble> 170582
1948 2012-03-10 22:22:10 <gmaxwell> sipa: actually, it looks like the boost sleep misbehaves with delays as short as 816066250 seconds. :-/
1949 2012-03-10 22:22:49 <tcatm> http://188.138.99.157/stuff/qtvert5.png
1950 2012-03-10 22:23:57 <Samuel> Nice! Sidebar is almost complete
1951 2012-03-10 22:24:35 <Samuel> Their should be 8px of padding above the first tab, maybe
1952 2012-03-10 22:24:35 <sipa> gmaxwell: how accurate is that number?
1953 2012-03-10 22:24:51 <gmaxwell> sipa: it's not exact, I just bisected a bit.
1954 2012-03-10 22:25:05 <gmaxwell> pass: 816064375 fail: 816066250
1955 2012-03-10 22:25:22 _h4ckm3 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1956 2012-03-10 22:25:28 <sipa> gmaxwell: ok, that means it fails when the target time is after 2^31s after epoch
1957 2012-03-10 22:25:33 <sipa> boost fail
1958 2012-03-10 22:25:37 <userjgg> the icons on samuel screenshot make a big good diference
1959 2012-03-10 22:26:19 <Samuel> Yeah, but they are the Finder ones from apple so we can't use them.
1960 2012-03-10 22:26:23 <sipa> gmaxwell: i hope the current boost version won't be around anymore in 2038
1961 2012-03-10 22:26:47 <Samuel> Those blue ones are ugly in my opinion
1962 2012-03-10 22:27:25 <userjgg> me too
1963 2012-03-10 22:27:28 <gmaxwell> Yea... but people asking for longer sleeps makes sense now— should we change our sleep wrapper to sleep for no more than 10 years and hope boost is fixed by 2028?
1964 2012-03-10 22:28:06 <sipa> i suppose 10 years is reasonable
1965 2012-03-10 22:28:20 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Quit: changing servers)
1966 2012-03-10 22:28:30 <gmaxwell> well if we make Sleep() itself clamp to 10 years, things that call it can still wait longer.. e.g. the wallet unlock will just sleep again.
1967 2012-03-10 22:28:47 <luke-jr> wtf does C++ cast (uint64_t)100000000.000000 to 99999999 ? -.-
1968 2012-03-10 22:29:11 <gmaxwell> because "100000000.000000" is a double.
1969 2012-03-10 22:29:23 <sipa> luke-jr: 100000000.000000 is probably less than the integer 100000000
1970 2012-03-10 22:29:33 <luke-jr> sipa: then why does printf round it to 100000000?
1971 2012-03-10 22:29:38 <sipa> because printf is smart
1972 2012-03-10 22:29:47 <gmaxwell> and floor((double)100000000.000000) is 99999999
1973 2012-03-10 22:30:00 <userjgg> Samuel: i don't like the font on tcatm screenshot
1974 2012-03-10 22:30:06 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: REALITY.SYS Corrupted: Re-boot universe? (Y/N/Q))
1975 2012-03-10 22:30:19 <sipa> Some programmers when faces with a problem think "I'll use floating point". Now they have 1.9999999999999997 problems
1976 2012-03-10 22:30:28 <kish> ************************
1977 2012-03-10 22:30:28 <kish> EXCEPTION: 11DbException
1978 2012-03-10 22:30:28 <kish> Db::put: Cannot allocate memory
1979 2012-03-10 22:30:29 <kish> bitcoin in ProcessMessage()
1980 2012-03-10 22:30:35 <kish> seeing that repeated many times
1981 2012-03-10 22:30:38 <sipa> kish: 0.6.0rc2 ?
1982 2012-03-10 22:30:38 edcba has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1983 2012-03-10 22:30:57 <sipa> kish: can please stop bitcoind, and make a backup of blkindex.dat and blk0001.dat now?
1984 2012-03-10 22:30:57 <Samuel> userjgg: I also agree on that, the font is really weirdly spaced. Use Helvetica
1985 2012-03-10 22:31:19 <gmaxwell> sipa: hah, testing problem solved!
1986 2012-03-10 22:31:26 <tcatm> Qt won't let me add a gap before the first item :/
1987 2012-03-10 22:31:29 <sipa> gmaxwell: ?
1988 2012-03-10 22:32:09 <userjgg> Samuel: as i can see the propose is your screenshot. thst one is good in my opinion
1989 2012-03-10 22:32:21 <kish> sipa, okay, now what?
1990 2012-03-10 22:32:25 <Samuel> Hmm, can you change the font to Helvetica, thats the only font that will be used in the app
1991 2012-03-10 22:32:48 <sipa> kish: it's a problem we've seen reported many times today, and i believe i implemented a fix for it, but most people already deleted their faulty databases to test it
1992 2012-03-10 22:32:52 <sipa> kish: which OS?
1993 2012-03-10 22:33:00 <tcatm> I'm pretty sure my system does not have Helvetica installed.
1994 2012-03-10 22:33:02 <kish> sipa, ubuntu
1995 2012-03-10 22:33:18 <sipa> kish: do you compile from source yourself, or do you need a binary?
1996 2012-03-10 22:33:23 <kish> i compile
1997 2012-03-10 22:33:25 <Samuel> userjgg: that was just made in photoshop so were tring to make the accuall program as similar as possible
1998 2012-03-10 22:33:34 <kish> tell me what to do sipa
1999 2012-03-10 22:33:36 <sipa> kish: ok, can you build my minireorg branch?
2000 2012-03-10 22:33:48 <kish> sipa, what's the git address
2001 2012-03-10 22:33:49 <sipa> https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/tree/minireorg
2002 2012-03-10 22:34:00 <kish> how is it different?
2003 2012-03-10 22:34:04 <Samuel> tcatm: What about the text above the tab names? Is that possible?
2004 2012-03-10 22:34:15 <tcatm> Yes.
2005 2012-03-10 22:34:27 <kish> btw, sipa, the faulty message happens on 0.3x too
2006 2012-03-10 22:34:34 <sipa> kish: git clone git://github.com/sipa/bitcoin.git; git checkout minireorg
2007 2012-03-10 22:34:42 <sipa> kish: that's possible
2008 2012-03-10 22:34:56 <sipa> the fact is that the code is trying to do a huge reorganisation
2009 2012-03-10 22:35:03 <sipa> and this exceeds some bdb limits
2010 2012-03-10 22:35:27 <luke-jr> so how can I printf the real value? -.-
2011 2012-03-10 22:35:29 <sipa> my branch has a patch that limits the reorgnisation to a smaller set of blocks
2012 2012-03-10 22:35:41 <sipa> luke-jr: use %.18g or so
2013 2012-03-10 22:35:48 <Samuel> tcatm: if you add that text then the space above the tabs shouldn't be a problem, right?
2014 2012-03-10 22:36:17 <phantomcircuit> sipa, lolololol
2015 2012-03-10 22:36:34 <sipa> phantomcircuit: funny?
2016 2012-03-10 22:36:59 <kish> sipa, fatal: Not a git repository (or any of the parent directories): .git
2017 2012-03-10 22:37:12 <tcatm> Samuel: Let's try it :)
2018 2012-03-10 22:37:13 <phantomcircuit> I GOT 98.99999999999999999999999997 PROBLEMS BUT A DECIMAL LIBRARY AINT ONE
2019 2012-03-10 22:37:15 <Samuel> tcatm: can the corners of the app window have 5px rounded corners?
2020 2012-03-10 22:38:02 <sipa> kish: exact command line?
2021 2012-03-10 22:38:14 <sipa> kish: oh wait
2022 2012-03-10 22:38:22 <kish> violet% git clone git://github.com/sipa/bitcoin.git; git checkout minireorg
2023 2012-03-10 22:38:24 <sipa> there should be a "cd bitcoin" in between, of course
2024 2012-03-10 22:38:36 <sipa> so do cd bitcoin; git checkout minireorg
2025 2012-03-10 22:39:01 <userjgg> Samuel: I dont know if i like the box like top wiki.. resources on overview tab
2026 2012-03-10 22:39:07 <kish> okay it worked
2027 2012-03-10 22:39:22 <kish> building it.
2028 2012-03-10 22:39:27 <sipa> kish: do git show if you want to see the patch first
2029 2012-03-10 22:39:29 <kish> am i the first to test this new code?
2030 2012-03-10 22:39:35 ThomasV has joined
2031 2012-03-10 22:39:40 <userjgg> samuel: i think could be on a new menu like help
2032 2012-03-10 22:39:54 <sipa> kish: yes, so do not run it with a live wallet
2033 2012-03-10 22:40:05 <Samuel> userjgg: That was just an idea i had for quick access to  those sites, i didn't know what else to fill that area with
2034 2012-03-10 22:40:19 dissipate has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2035 2012-03-10 22:40:22 <tcatm> http://188.138.99.157/stuff/qtvert6.png
2036 2012-03-10 22:40:24 <userjgg> samuel: ok
2037 2012-03-10 22:40:28 <Samuel> userjgg: that could be good too
2038 2012-03-10 22:40:50 <sipa> kish: my miner is running this code as well for half an hour now, if that gives some confidence :)
2039 2012-03-10 22:41:12 <Samuel> tcatm: Perfect! Only things that could make it better is drop shaddows and better icons
2040 2012-03-10 22:42:13 <kish> i get this and i dont know why:
2041 2012-03-10 22:42:15 <kish>     "errors" : "WARNING: Displayed transactions may not be correct!  You may need to upgrade, or other nodes may need to upgrade."
2042 2012-03-10 22:42:49 <tcatm> Samuel: What size are the icons in your mockup?
2043 2012-03-10 22:43:12 <gmaxwell> sipa: K, well I clamped sleep and pushed a new version.. If you could ack again when you get a chance to review that would be good.
2044 2012-03-10 22:43:25 <userjgg> tcatm: the box window background be white
2045 2012-03-10 22:43:28 <sipa> kish: that's expected; don't worry
2046 2012-03-10 22:43:39 <sipa> kish: you should wait until a new block arrives on that network
2047 2012-03-10 22:43:55 <sipa> at that point, if all goes well, it will reorganize to the good chain
2048 2012-03-10 22:44:12 <sipa> to confirm, your current best height is 170059?
2049 2012-03-10 22:44:24 <tcatm> userjgg: I've only got one keyboard :)
2050 2012-03-10 22:44:25 <sipa> (or a little higher, maybe)
2051 2012-03-10 22:44:28 <Samuel> tcatm: I think they are 18px by 18px
2052 2012-03-10 22:44:51 <userjgg> tcatm: the box corner not square
2053 2012-03-10 22:45:06 <userjgg> sorry my english
2054 2012-03-10 22:45:08 <tcatm> userjgg: We're focusing on the sidebar for now :)
2055 2012-03-10 22:45:13 <Samuel> Right now were just working on the sidebar
2056 2012-03-10 22:45:18 <userjgg> ok, sorry
2057 2012-03-10 22:45:27 <Samuel> yeah no problem
2058 2012-03-10 22:45:39 <kish> shame bitcoin wasn't coded in c
2059 2012-03-10 22:46:07 <tcatm> C++ is pretty close to c.
2060 2012-03-10 22:46:10 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
2061 2012-03-10 22:46:10 <gribble> 170590
2062 2012-03-10 22:46:17 <sipa> kish: what's your current height?
2063 2012-03-10 22:46:35 <tcatm> Samuel: Can you send me the icons so we could see what it would look like?
2064 2012-03-10 22:46:43 <Samuel> yeah
2065 2012-03-10 22:47:13 <kish> sipa, umm height
2066 2012-03-10 22:47:15 <kish> ?
2067 2012-03-10 22:47:20 datagutt has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2068 2012-03-10 22:47:22 h4ckm3 has joined
2069 2012-03-10 22:47:32 <sipa> kish: bitcoin-qt or bitcoind?
2070 2012-03-10 22:47:40 <Samuel> tcatm: ok
2071 2012-03-10 22:47:45 <kish> sipa, bitcoind
2072 2012-03-10 22:48:10 archo47 has quit ()
2073 2012-03-10 22:48:12 <sipa> kish: ./bitcoind getblockcount
2074 2012-03-10 22:48:38 <kish> 170059
2075 2012-03-10 22:48:49 <sipa> good
2076 2012-03-10 22:49:04 <sipa> can you watch your debug.log for "REORGANIZE", and see if the error still occurs?
2077 2012-03-10 22:49:20 <sipa> it could take some minutes before that happens (new block discovered)
2078 2012-03-10 22:50:41 <kish> it's not stopping ;(
2079 2012-03-10 22:50:52 <kish> and im not running your patched version
2080 2012-03-10 22:50:58 <kish> but what i usually run won't stop
2081 2012-03-10 22:51:11 <sipa> oh
2082 2012-03-10 22:51:17 <sipa> how do you mean, won't stop?
2083 2012-03-10 22:51:19 <sipa> ./bitcoind stop
2084 2012-03-10 22:51:22 <sipa> that should stop it
2085 2012-03-10 22:51:38 <kish> it doesn't
2086 2012-03-10 22:51:42 <kish> ThreadRPCServer method=stop
2087 2012-03-10 22:51:46 <kish> that's it
2088 2012-03-10 22:51:48 h4ckm3 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2089 2012-03-10 22:51:53 <kish> but bitcoind won't stop
2090 2012-03-10 22:52:04 <sipa> you have a valuable wallet in it?
2091 2012-03-10 22:52:09 <kish> nope
2092 2012-03-10 22:52:15 <sipa> ok, just kill bitcoind then
2093 2012-03-10 22:52:16 <kish> 0.0000000
2094 2012-03-10 22:52:28 <sipa> killall bitcoind
2095 2012-03-10 22:52:31 <kish> oh, can killing it mess up your wallet?
2096 2012-03-10 22:52:40 <sipa> it shouldn't, but it may
2097 2012-03-10 22:52:59 <sipa> if your wallet is valuable, i'd try running backupwallet first
2098 2012-03-10 22:53:03 <sipa> but that may fail as well
2099 2012-03-10 22:54:04 <Samuel> tcatm: Emailed the icons to you
2100 2012-03-10 22:54:30 <kish> running your patched up bitcoind sipa
2101 2012-03-10 22:54:35 <sipa> ok, height now?
2102 2012-03-10 22:54:53 <kish> 170059
2103 2012-03-10 22:54:58 <sipa> good
2104 2012-03-10 22:54:59 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
2105 2012-03-10 22:55:00 <gribble> 170590
2106 2012-03-10 22:55:13 <sipa> when 170591 is found, your node should switch to it
2107 2012-03-10 22:56:28 phantomfakeBNC has joined
2108 2012-03-10 22:56:45 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
2109 2012-03-10 22:56:45 <gribble> 170591
2110 2012-03-10 22:56:53 <sipa> kish: what happens in debug.log?
2111 2012-03-10 22:57:08 <kish> askfor tx ba7f7acc8316859c8566   1331420426000000
2112 2012-03-10 22:57:08 <kish> ERROR: FetchInputs() : ba7f7acc83 mapTransactions prev not found 24db37a4d6
2113 2012-03-10 22:57:08 <kish> ERROR: AcceptToMemoryPool() : FetchInputs failed ba7f7acc83
2114 2012-03-10 22:57:08 <kish> storing orphan tx ba7f7acc83
2115 2012-03-10 22:57:28 <sipa> ignore everything about transactions
2116 2012-03-10 22:57:49 <sipa> did it reorganize?
2117 2012-03-10 22:58:00 <kish> how should i know?
2118 2012-03-10 22:58:07 <sipa> it should say REORGANIZE
2119 2012-03-10 22:58:39 <kish> i'm not seeing that
2120 2012-03-10 22:59:01 <sipa> can you paste the last few pages of debug.log somewhere?
2121 2012-03-10 22:59:38 <mcorlett> sipa: Hey, I messaged you on the forums, but it might be easier to troubleshoot over here. Let me know if you'd like me to perform anything in particular.
2122 2012-03-10 22:59:40 <tcatm> Samuel: http://188.138.99.157/stuff/qtvert7.png
2123 2012-03-10 23:00:33 <sipa> mcorlett: kish is already doing the same
2124 2012-03-10 23:00:34 <BlueMatt> tcatm: oooo, looking awesome
2125 2012-03-10 23:00:34 <kish> http://pastie.org/3567170
2126 2012-03-10 23:00:34 <Samuel> tcatm: Looks nice.
2127 2012-03-10 23:00:34 <sipa> mcorlett: at least, can you stop your current bitcoin, and make a backup of blkindex.dat and blk0001.dat somewhere already?
2128 2012-03-10 23:00:48 <mcorlett> On it.
2129 2012-03-10 23:00:50 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2130 2012-03-10 23:00:51 <sipa> kish: more
2131 2012-03-10 23:01:05 <kish> more what
2132 2012-03-10 23:01:16 <sipa> paste somewhat more :)
2133 2012-03-10 23:01:17 <tcatm> So we need OSS icons now :)
2134 2012-03-10 23:01:50 <BlueMatt> what icons are those?
2135 2012-03-10 23:01:52 <BlueMatt> osx ones?
2136 2012-03-10 23:02:02 <Samuel> tcatm: one more thing, the selected text is bold
2137 2012-03-10 23:02:06 <Samuel> Yes they are OSX
2138 2012-03-10 23:02:18 <kish> http://pastie.org/3567184
2139 2012-03-10 23:02:23 <BlueMatt> :(
2140 2012-03-10 23:03:11 <Samuel> We obviously wont be using those icons because they apple would probably get mad at us
2141 2012-03-10 23:03:38 <BlueMatt> heh, yea...
2142 2012-03-10 23:03:42 <Samuel> I'm looking for a similar royalty free set
2143 2012-03-10 23:03:51 ThomasV has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2144 2012-03-10 23:03:51 Nicksasa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2145 2012-03-10 23:04:02 <Samuel> I got to go right now, I'll be back later
2146 2012-03-10 23:04:07 <Samuel> see ya!
2147 2012-03-10 23:04:14 <BlueMatt> see ya
2148 2012-03-10 23:04:25 Samuel has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2149 2012-03-10 23:05:38 <tcatm> Qt is quite inflexible sometimes :/ When making the text bold it'll be cutoff in some places.
2150 2012-03-10 23:06:11 pusle has quit ()
2151 2012-03-10 23:06:17 eoss has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2152 2012-03-10 23:07:14 <sipa> kish: hmm, strange; it stored 170591 as an orphan
2153 2012-03-10 23:07:21 <sipa> let's wait for 170592
2154 2012-03-10 23:07:37 <sipa> mcorlett: can you compile a bitcoind from source?
2155 2012-03-10 23:07:41 <sipa> or do you need binaries?
2156 2012-03-10 23:08:00 <mcorlett> sipa: On a Linux box, no problem. Windows, not so much.
2157 2012-03-10 23:08:11 <sipa> mcorlett: the one you have those files on
2158 2012-03-10 23:08:29 <mcorlett> That's Windows, so that's negative.
2159 2012-03-10 23:08:37 <mcorlett> Will the bug persist if I move the blockchain over?
2160 2012-03-10 23:08:45 <sipa> it should, yes
2161 2012-03-10 23:08:56 <mcorlett> Hold on, then.
2162 2012-03-10 23:09:07 <sipa> (verify that it does persist first)
2163 2012-03-10 23:09:24 h4ckm3 has joined
2164 2012-03-10 23:12:28 Z0rZ0rZ0r1 has joined
2165 2012-03-10 23:13:29 <mcorlett> sipa: Will the daemon suffice?
2166 2012-03-10 23:14:57 <sipa> yes
2167 2012-03-10 23:15:24 Z0rZ0rZ0r has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2168 2012-03-10 23:16:22 <mcorlett> sipa: Alright, 8 connections, still stuck.
2169 2012-03-10 23:17:50 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
2170 2012-03-10 23:17:50 <gribble> 170593
2171 2012-03-10 23:18:01 splatster has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2172 2012-03-10 23:18:21 <sipa> mcorlett: wait for 170594, and tell me what happens in debug.log
2173 2012-03-10 23:18:47 dissipate has joined
2174 2012-03-10 23:19:14 <sipa> kish: nothing changed for you?
2175 2012-03-10 23:20:02 * BlueMatt -> bed (early flight tomorrow)
2176 2012-03-10 23:20:16 <sipa> gnight
2177 2012-03-10 23:20:34 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2178 2012-03-10 23:22:23 occulta has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2179 2012-03-10 23:25:31 num1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2180 2012-03-10 23:26:09 Turingi has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2181 2012-03-10 23:26:49 <kish> no im still at the old block
2182 2012-03-10 23:27:02 <kish> 170059
2183 2012-03-10 23:27:10 <kish> why am i still at 170059?
2184 2012-03-10 23:28:19 <sipa> either my code buggy, or there is some other problem here as well
2185 2012-03-10 23:28:36 <sipa> or maybe both
2186 2012-03-10 23:29:05 <sipa> kish: can you restart your node with -checkblocks ?
2187 2012-03-10 23:29:48 <kish> i just enter that at the commandline starting bitcoind?
2188 2012-03-10 23:30:12 <kish> running
2189 2012-03-10 23:30:17 <sipa> yes
2190 2012-03-10 23:31:47 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: jojkaart opened pull request 928 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/928>
2191 2012-03-10 23:31:59 <Eliel> luke-jr: there, I fixed it :)
2192 2012-03-10 23:33:19 machine2 has quit (Quit: : http://www.beta.facefox.com/index.php?do=/user/register/)
2193 2012-03-10 23:34:15 <mcorlett> sipa: Incoming block!
2194 2012-03-10 23:35:17 <sipa> mcorlett: do you see a bdb out of memory error in debug.log?
2195 2012-03-10 23:35:31 <mcorlett> Don't think so.
2196 2012-03-10 23:35:41 <mcorlett> http://pastebin.com/TwdEAPdz
2197 2012-03-10 23:36:01 dbitcoin has joined
2198 2012-03-10 23:36:21 <sipa> ok
2199 2012-03-10 23:36:31 <sipa> kish: same for you?
2200 2012-03-10 23:37:07 <mcorlett> sipa: That's negative, no results when greping for bdb.
2201 2012-03-10 23:37:26 <sipa> mcorlett: no you get the same thing as kish
2202 2012-03-10 23:39:28 <sipa> which at least means i didn't introduce that problem
2203 2012-03-10 23:40:15 <mcorlett> sipa: Would you like me to run -checkblocks?
2204 2012-03-10 23:40:40 <sipa> you can try, but i doubt it will help
2205 2012-03-10 23:43:02 dbitcoin has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2206 2012-03-10 23:47:20 <mcorlett> sipa: No luck.
2207 2012-03-10 23:49:02 <kish> no i am not seeing that message anymore sipa
2208 2012-03-10 23:49:08 <kish> but my blockcount is old
2209 2012-03-10 23:49:18 <kish> if it won't update i don't know what to do
2210 2012-03-10 23:49:31 <kish> i need an up to date block count to mine and such
2211 2012-03-10 23:49:37 <kish> not that i am mining right now anywya
2212 2012-03-10 23:52:39 JRWR has quit (Quit: BTC Welcome: 19QtYzmENUmqRhvjEvHsz785rqZ5RRcZG4)
2213 2012-03-10 23:53:12 <sipa> kish: can you send your entire debug.log to me? (paste, or mail)
2214 2012-03-10 23:54:20 candlepin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2215 2012-03-10 23:55:24 num1 has joined
2216 2012-03-10 23:57:28 <kish> give me the instructions on where to email it in pm
2217 2012-03-10 23:57:34 <kish> brb