1 2012-03-12 00:00:07 <luke-jr> Ladd's paper is over my head :<
2 2012-03-12 00:00:18 <luke-jr> yellowhat: yes, those are still possible, just harder to debug
3 2012-03-12 00:00:26 <yellowhat> in 10+years of developing java i had only 1-2 serious memory leak problems due to programming errors. in c++ i had 1 per week.
4 2012-03-12 00:01:12 <luke-jr> how many years of developing C++?
5 2012-03-12 00:01:27 <luke-jr> without Java?
6 2012-03-12 00:01:34 dstien has joined
7 2012-03-12 00:01:48 <sipa> bitcoin's c++ source code has remarkably few memory leaks, imho
8 2012-03-12 00:02:32 <yellowhat> i had only about 6 months of c++ . of course experience plays a big role in that
9 2012-03-12 00:04:38 <luke-jr> yellowhat: if you only write C++ code, and have experience, you generally know to clean up properly
10 2012-03-12 00:05:00 <luke-jr> if someone writes mainly Java/etc, and never learns that properly, of course they'll make a mess :p
11 2012-03-12 00:08:01 [eval] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12 2012-03-12 00:09:03 <yellowhat> so what makes me a little scared if someone like me tried to fix an issue in bitcoin (c++) and submited a patch. wcpgw
13 2012-03-12 00:10:17 chrisb__ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
14 2012-03-12 00:10:54 JRWR has joined
15 2012-03-12 00:14:03 <andytoshi> the devs read patches before applying them ;)
16 2012-03-12 00:14:32 graingert has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
17 2012-03-12 00:16:33 <sipa> yellowhat: would you prefer that nobody could submit/view patches being submitted? :)
18 2012-03-12 00:18:54 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
19 2012-03-12 00:20:01 JRWR has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
20 2012-03-12 00:22:09 paraipan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
21 2012-03-12 00:22:58 paraipan has joined
22 2012-03-12 00:25:00 blumenkraft has joined
23 2012-03-12 00:28:28 chao has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
24 2012-03-12 00:32:38 <t7> i have 18p in btc :3
25 2012-03-12 00:34:31 TuxBlackEdo has joined
26 2012-03-12 00:34:52 <TuxBlackEdo> satoshi is adam hinkley
27 2012-03-12 00:35:22 <splatster> TuxBlackEdo: That's quite a lofty claim.
28 2012-03-12 00:35:43 <luke-jr> TuxBlackEdo: liar
29 2012-03-12 00:35:46 <TuxBlackEdo> it's true
30 2012-03-12 00:35:48 <luke-jr> no
31 2012-03-12 00:35:49 <TuxBlackEdo> i swear.
32 2012-03-12 00:35:53 <luke-jr> we already know who Satoshi is n00b
33 2012-03-12 00:35:58 <luke-jr> and it ain't him
34 2012-03-12 00:36:09 <TuxBlackEdo> whatever luke-jr
35 2012-03-12 00:36:30 <lianj> its adam curry
36 2012-03-12 00:42:09 <yellowhat> does anyone know is there anything special with block 47463 on testnet?
37 2012-03-12 00:43:01 <yellowhat> because my instance of bitcoinj always stops at that block, my bitcoinC++ goes to 49089
38 2012-03-12 00:43:29 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
39 2012-03-12 00:44:01 cande has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
40 2012-03-12 00:46:19 da2ce7 has joined
41 2012-03-12 00:46:45 danbri has joined
42 2012-03-12 00:47:59 <mcorlett> sipa: Were you able to get to the cause of why some people weren't having issues with the blockchain after the update to rc2?
43 2012-03-12 00:48:39 <sipa> mcorlett: it would have depended on the state of their block database
44 2012-03-12 00:49:08 <sipa> if they didn't ran rc1 for long, and either shut down their nodes for a while, or upgraded to rc2 quickly, it would be more likely to still have succeeded
45 2012-03-12 00:49:24 <sipa> so i don't have details, but it's reasonable that it still worked for some
46 2012-03-12 00:50:28 <mcorlett> As I understand it, the reorganization was too large to take place in some cases. Is that an accurate assessment?
47 2012-03-12 00:50:36 <sipa> Yes.
48 2012-03-12 00:51:24 <mcorlett> Ok. That explains the variance in results from the update I'm seeing on the forums.
49 2012-03-12 00:56:58 _h4ckm3 has joined
50 2012-03-12 01:00:02 <luke-jr> gruez: poke
51 2012-03-12 01:00:31 <luke-jr> sipa: did I add enough debug prints to help with the issue, do you think?
52 2012-03-12 01:01:21 * luke-jr watch [Tycho]'s Deepspam flood #bitcoin-watch
53 2012-03-12 01:01:36 <da2ce7> my blimming white nickers.... Deepbit spams alot of transactions.
54 2012-03-12 01:02:39 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: Perhaps the deepspam should get exchoed to other channels.
55 2012-03-12 01:02:48 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: it's labelled now :p
56 2012-03-12 01:03:09 <luke-jr> [Sunday, March 11, 2012] [9:01:45 PM] <ljrbot> Txn 81a0dcad4f47fbcff7dc8282dd8a1f507ad4786e53c38b7700edd5e73c0fa1ef: Deepbit 5.745 BTC, 1JEVakpQrotczGpvtV4W9J5Axn5WnSNM2c 4.67 BTC
57 2012-03-12 01:03:54 <[Tycho]> How do you know the sender ? :)
58 2012-03-12 01:04:30 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: it only shows outputs
59 2012-03-12 01:04:52 <luke-jr> for now
60 2012-03-12 01:05:07 <luke-jr> would be neat to show txn fee and priority, actually
61 2012-03-12 01:05:29 <[Tycho]> Is my green address hardcoded there ?
62 2012-03-12 01:05:35 <luke-jr> yes
63 2012-03-12 01:10:10 <[Tycho]> You can fetch my green addresses automagically, for example - a couple of times each day.
64 2012-03-12 01:11:01 _h4ckm3 has quit (Quit: changing servers)
65 2012-03-12 01:11:55 _h4ckm3 has joined
66 2012-03-12 01:15:47 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: I could, but it doesn't change, so I took a shortcut for now
67 2012-03-12 01:15:54 <[Tycho]> "26.72 BTC @ 3.12 MTGGBP == î§î§43.7î§ TBC @ 0.0020447⦠MTGGBP" - what does it means ?
68 2012-03-12 01:16:07 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: that's a trade on MtGox
69 2012-03-12 01:16:19 <[Tycho]> Especially this - 0.0020447
70 2012-03-12 01:16:32 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: price per TBC
71 2012-03-12 01:16:40 <[Tycho]> Oh, that.
72 2012-03-12 01:17:27 <luke-jr> BTC is on the left side
73 2012-03-12 01:17:33 <[Tycho]> My proposed proposal allows finding out the owners of green addresses.
74 2012-03-12 01:18:00 phantomfakeBNC has joined
75 2012-03-12 01:21:04 CaptainDDL has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
76 2012-03-12 01:22:00 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: green addresses need to die :P
77 2012-03-12 01:22:10 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
78 2012-03-12 01:22:28 <[Tycho]> You can't stop us.
79 2012-03-12 01:23:19 * da2ce7 thinks you could stop deepbit, but you will need 51% hashing power.
80 2012-03-12 01:23:22 <[Tycho]> I don't know any good ways of doing this without going out-of-blockchain.
81 2012-03-12 01:23:32 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: wanna bet on that? ;)
82 2012-03-12 01:23:49 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: limit free transactions to 1 per input address ;)
83 2012-03-12 01:23:56 <luke-jr> per block
84 2012-03-12 01:24:05 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: how can it affect me ?
85 2012-03-12 01:24:30 <da2ce7> [Tycho]: gets free transactions within his own blocks.
86 2012-03-12 01:24:34 <[Tycho]> da2ce7: mining can be evasive.
87 2012-03-12 01:24:36 <luke-jr> da2ce7: true
88 2012-03-12 01:25:29 <[Tycho]> Green addresses are cool.
89 2012-03-12 01:25:32 <da2ce7> the best way is to publicly announce what spam deepbit is doing, and ddos the pool.
90 2012-03-12 01:25:32 <[Tycho]> And green.
91 2012-03-12 01:25:51 <[Tycho]> da2ce7: do you have a pool ?
92 2012-03-12 01:26:08 <[Tycho]> Stop lying please, there is no spam.
93 2012-03-12 01:26:21 <da2ce7> ? what?
94 2012-03-12 01:26:51 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: over 25% of all Bitcoin transactions is Deepspam
95 2012-03-12 01:27:12 <[Tycho]> So what ? They are perfectly legit.
96 2012-03-12 01:27:57 <da2ce7> you could be using generation transactions. like luke-jr's pool... or send to many.
97 2012-03-12 01:28:07 <tribbler> thats why so many ppl trust deepbit
98 2012-03-12 01:28:14 <[Tycho]> Actually I'm planning to use sendmany, just didn't invented a way to abuse the rules with that yet.
99 2012-03-12 01:28:24 <gmaxwell> and yet other pools manage to generate a tiny fraction of that transaction load per user.
100 2012-03-12 01:28:32 <tribbler> instead of carrying a balance they payout reliably
101 2012-03-12 01:28:58 <gmaxwell> tribbler: this has nothing to do with when payouts happen.
102 2012-03-12 01:30:11 <tribbler> are you talking about network traffic or transactions in the block
103 2012-03-12 01:30:24 <etotheipi_> what is "wkey" in the satoshi wallet? it looks like "key" is a plaintext private key, and a "ckey" is an encrypted private key
104 2012-03-12 01:30:53 <[Tycho]> I don't think that using sendmany can make TX size less than 50% of current one.
105 2012-03-12 01:31:02 <sipa> etotheipi_: it's a "wallet key"
106 2012-03-12 01:31:08 <sipa> etotheipi_: it was never used afaik
107 2012-03-12 01:31:15 <etotheipi_> oh, so I can ignore it
108 2012-03-12 01:31:32 <sipa> no version since 0.3.19 has created such entries
109 2012-03-12 01:31:40 <sipa> (and before that, i don't know)
110 2012-03-12 01:31:47 <etotheipi_> and how do you distinguish address-pool keys?
111 2012-03-12 01:31:55 peter345978 has joined
112 2012-03-12 01:31:57 <sipa> pool keys are in the pool :)
113 2012-03-12 01:32:06 <etotheipi_> oh... I missed that entry
114 2012-03-12 01:32:08 <sipa> (have a pool entry with their pubkey)
115 2012-03-12 01:32:17 <sipa> for the rest, thet have a key or ckey entry like any other
116 2012-03-12 01:32:23 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: abuse the rules?
117 2012-03-12 01:32:31 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: (joke)
118 2012-03-12 01:32:42 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: oh, if you meant include it in your own blocks, I do have a patch for that
119 2012-03-12 01:32:56 <etotheipi_> sipa, so all keys are on the "key" or "ckey" entries, and the "pool" entries identify which ones are addr pool keys...?
120 2012-03-12 01:33:05 <sipa> etotheipi_: exactly
121 2012-03-12 01:33:08 <etotheipi_> great, thanks
122 2012-03-12 01:33:11 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: sure it canâ you avoid repeating the rather large input scriptsig which is most of the size of txn.
123 2012-03-12 01:33:36 <[Tycho]> It's not that large.
124 2012-03-12 01:33:53 a_meteorite has joined
125 2012-03-12 01:33:55 <luke-jr> â¦
126 2012-03-12 01:34:29 <[Tycho]> Did you know that I'm using pubkeys for change ?
127 2012-03-12 01:34:37 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: that makes it even worse.
128 2012-03-12 01:35:04 <sipa> not really
129 2012-03-12 01:35:07 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: no, it makes redeeming more compact.
130 2012-03-12 01:35:09 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: also, every unspent transaction has to be in the index hash table.
131 2012-03-12 01:35:22 <gmaxwell> (reduction in total inputs involved also avoids the additional input lookups while syncing the chain, which is a significant perfomrnace factor)
132 2012-03-12 01:35:22 <luke-jr> if you use sendmany, then there's 1 entry
133 2012-03-12 01:35:42 <[Tycho]> Ok, I'll think about it.
134 2012-03-12 01:35:52 <sipa> anyway, an extra txout is 34 bytes; an extra transaction is 240 bytes.
135 2012-03-12 01:36:11 <[Tycho]> Cool.
136 2012-03-12 01:37:18 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Quit: changing servers)
137 2012-03-12 01:38:18 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: cdparanoia - does a "+" mean the error was corrected, or file has errors? :/
138 2012-03-12 01:38:33 <luke-jr> sipa: reckon we should wait to hear from gruez, or just release 0.4.4?
139 2012-03-12 01:38:49 <luke-jr> (and 0.5.3)
140 2012-03-12 01:39:06 _h4ckm3 has quit (Quit: changing servers)
141 2012-03-12 01:39:10 <luke-jr> I suppose Gavin won't be here till tomorrow anyway
142 2012-03-12 01:39:14 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: plusses mean that the drive lost sync without reporting it, but cdparanoa caught it and corrected it.
143 2012-03-12 01:39:16 phantomfakeBNC has joined
144 2012-03-12 01:39:21 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: k ty
145 2012-03-12 01:39:21 _h4ckm3 has joined
146 2012-03-12 01:39:26 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: V is an actual error on output.
147 2012-03-12 01:39:27 <sipa> i'm okay with releasing 0.5.3
148 2012-03-12 01:40:27 <gmaxwell> Does 0.5.3 have the unlock duration bug caused by the change to microseconds?
149 2012-03-12 01:40:41 t7 has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356])
150 2012-03-12 01:40:42 <tribbler> gmaxwell is pm'ing me with child pron
151 2012-03-12 01:41:04 <sipa> gmaxwell: oh yes, i believe it does
152 2012-03-12 01:41:29 <sipa> there
153 2012-03-12 01:41:47 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: cool, recovered everything off the CD then :D
154 2012-03-12 01:42:04 <gmaxwell> sipa: I'm a little uneasy with just dropping the fix I have in that pull request on a link, just in case there are other bugs where something calls sleep with a huge number but really wants a short delay.
155 2012-03-12 01:42:19 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: O.o?
156 2012-03-12 01:42:21 <gmaxwell> s/on a link/in a release/
157 2012-03-12 01:42:44 * luke-jr is confused.
158 2012-03-12 01:42:58 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: sipa just merged it :p
159 2012-03-12 01:42:59 <sipa> gmaxwell: a sleep with a time more than 10 years will not have any effect until somewhere 2019
160 2012-03-12 01:43:14 <sipa> oh i see what you mean
161 2012-03-12 01:43:29 <sipa> i believe the old wallet locking code actually relied on that
162 2012-03-12 01:43:35 <sipa> i never understood why it worked
163 2012-03-12 01:44:11 <gmaxwell> sipa: right. I tested it some here... but I thought it should get some instrumentation ("WTF locked for >10years!" in the logs) and a release candidate.
164 2012-03-12 01:44:44 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: the fix is fine, I'm just concerned about droping it cold into a release because it may expose other bugs.
165 2012-03-12 01:45:09 <sipa> gmaxwell: all calls to Sleep have a constant argument, except two
166 2012-03-12 01:45:33 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
167 2012-03-12 01:45:37 <sipa> 1) the wallet locking, 2) net's Sleep(timeout.tv_usec/1000);
168 2012-03-12 01:45:45 <sipa> which should always be less than 1 million usec
169 2012-03-12 01:46:00 <luke-jr> what's the bug?
170 2012-03-12 01:46:28 <sipa> wallet lock times >2 million seconds would fail
171 2012-03-12 01:46:32 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: Our Sleep() would return instantly if called with a time that spanned past the year 2038.
172 2012-03-12 01:46:53 <sipa> and that ^
173 2012-03-12 01:47:06 beetpig has joined
174 2012-03-12 01:47:17 <gmaxwell> I fixed the first, better exposing the second... then fixed the second.
175 2012-03-12 01:47:38 _h4ckm3 has quit (Quit: changing servers)
176 2012-03-12 01:47:44 <luke-jr> i c
177 2012-03-12 01:47:47 <gmaxwell> But making long sleeps work may have exposed a third.. but it looks like Sipa's grepping says no.
178 2012-03-12 01:48:25 StewieMcFluffy_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
179 2012-03-12 01:48:26 <gmaxwell> Yea, I confirm no other variable sleeps.
180 2012-03-12 01:49:18 marf_away has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
181 2012-03-12 01:49:38 <luke-jr> why not split the sleep up into 10 year periods, and use a for loop or smth?
182 2012-03-12 01:49:50 <sipa> won't work
183 2012-03-12 01:49:51 <luke-jr> ie, sleep (10 yrs + 5 days) becomes sleep(10 yrs); sleep(5 days);
184 2012-03-12 01:49:58 <sipa> it's passing the 2038 barrier that is impossible
185 2012-03-12 01:50:15 <sipa> however
186 2012-03-12 01:50:18 <sipa> however long/short it is
187 2012-03-12 01:51:31 da2ce7 has joined
188 2012-03-12 01:52:46 <luke-jr> i c
189 2012-03-12 01:54:09 Samuel has joined
190 2012-03-12 01:54:16 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
191 2012-03-12 01:54:21 <Samuel> Hello
192 2012-03-12 01:54:29 eps has quit (Disconnected by services)
193 2012-03-12 01:55:01 <sipa> Samuel: did I correctly read you are 14?
194 2012-03-12 01:55:04 zeiris has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
195 2012-03-12 01:55:04 epscy has joined
196 2012-03-12 01:55:17 <Samuel> sipa: umm why?
197 2012-03-12 01:55:44 <Samuel> sipa: Yes I'm 14
198 2012-03-12 01:55:48 <luke-jr> sipa: interfaces aren't copyrightable IIRC
199 2012-03-12 01:55:48 <sipa> I didn't expect it :)
200 2012-03-12 01:56:06 <sipa> Don't worry, you're welcome :)
201 2012-03-12 01:56:07 <sipa> luke-jr: ?
202 2012-03-12 01:56:11 <luke-jr> (at least, when I heard he was 14, the thing that popped into my mind was "whose permission do we need?" :P)
203 2012-03-12 01:56:28 <sipa> easy enough, we don't know!
204 2012-03-12 01:56:36 zeiris has joined
205 2012-03-12 01:56:48 <Samuel> sipa: Oh, thanks!
206 2012-03-12 01:57:42 SomeoneWeirdzzzz is now known as SomeoneWeird
207 2012-03-12 01:58:02 <peter345978> Anyone interested in test-driving a "block explorer"-type site I've made, please PM me. I want to let someone else try it for like the first time.
208 2012-03-12 01:58:02 <Samuel> Yeah, you can see my portfolio here if you want: http://samuelanderson.tk
209 2012-03-12 01:58:08 beetpig has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
210 2012-03-12 01:58:10 da2ce7 has quit (2!~da2ce7@gateway/tor-sasl/da2ce7|Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
211 2012-03-12 01:58:12 JRWR has joined
212 2012-03-12 01:58:21 da2ce7 has joined
213 2012-03-12 01:58:21 forsetifox_ has joined
214 2012-03-12 01:58:43 <da2ce7> bbback! Stupid mobile interenet!
215 2012-03-12 02:00:50 forsetifox has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
216 2012-03-12 02:01:52 sacarlson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
217 2012-03-12 02:03:54 <peter345978> So it's all new code. Trying to be pretty HTML5. Does interactive network diagrams of transactions (interactive SVG)⦠see it first ⦠no takers?
218 2012-03-12 02:04:32 <peter345978> Does both testnet and main; in-memory search of whole tree, all pubkeys, transactions...
219 2012-03-12 02:12:10 tribbler has quit (Quit: /usr/bin/sleep)
220 2012-03-12 02:13:42 <luke-jr> sipa: gmaxwell: how about I roll a rc4 with this, and we plan to rename it to final on Mon/Tue?
221 2012-03-12 02:14:01 <luke-jr> nanotube: are you up for putting an rc4 on SourceForge to get the exposure Gavin wants pre-final?
222 2012-03-12 02:14:19 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: That sounds okay to me. (though my concerns are now a bit more relaxed then they were a few minutes ago)
223 2012-03-12 02:14:36 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: well, I'm thinking Gavin will demand such testing anyway
224 2012-03-12 02:14:43 <luke-jr> so let's try to get it over with fast
225 2012-03-12 02:15:33 <luke-jr> or if that bug was not a big deal, we could just decide to final rc3 ignorign itâ¦
226 2012-03-12 02:15:53 <luke-jr> worst case, the wallet immediately relocks, right?
227 2012-03-12 02:16:26 ayurveda has joined
228 2012-03-12 02:16:29 <sipa> you mean release rc3 without this locking fix?
229 2012-03-12 02:16:32 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: noâ worse case we get random hangs. except that worst case doesn't seems to be possible unless grep is being deceptive.
230 2012-03-12 02:16:49 <gmaxwell> I don't think we should do an RC3 without the locking fix.
231 2012-03-12 02:16:54 <sipa> indeed
232 2012-03-12 02:16:58 <gmaxwell> I think we should do it with.
233 2012-03-12 02:18:52 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I mean worst case *without* your patch
234 2012-03-12 02:19:09 <luke-jr> also, rc3 is already released; we're talking rc4 or not
235 2012-03-12 02:19:20 sacarlson has joined
236 2012-03-12 02:19:24 <gmaxwell> if we're to do another RC we should take the patch.
237 2012-03-12 02:19:37 <sipa> i'd say do an rc4
238 2012-03-12 02:19:44 <luke-jr> right⦠I mean is the patch important enough to make another RC, or should we just go final without it?
239 2012-03-12 02:19:52 <luke-jr> ok
240 2012-03-12 02:19:59 <gmaxwell> Otherwise you can't unlock longer than 27 days, which is a functionality regressionâ and goes against what we were recommending to reduce linnode-event exposure.
241 2012-03-12 02:20:13 <sipa> i can do a gitian build
242 2012-03-12 02:20:15 <luke-jr> oh, that short >_<
243 2012-03-12 02:20:24 <luke-jr> OK, I'll tag rc4 in a min, 1 sec
244 2012-03-12 02:22:30 <luke-jr> OK, pushed
245 2012-03-12 02:22:33 <gmaxwell> The BIP30 cutpoint is the 15th right? So yea.. a tuesday release would be okay.
246 2012-03-12 02:22:37 <luke-jr> * [new tag] v0.4.4rc4 -> v0.4.4rc4
247 2012-03-12 02:22:39 <luke-jr> * [new tag] v0.5.0.4rc4 -> v0.5.0.4rc4
248 2012-03-12 02:22:40 <luke-jr> * [new tag] v0.5.3rc4 -> v0.5.3rc4
249 2012-03-12 02:23:05 <etotheipi_> another question about the Satoshi wallet: is it reasonable for anyone to currently hold a wallet with a mix of encrypted and unencrypted keys? it's all one or the other, right?
250 2012-03-12 02:23:17 <sipa> etotheipi_: it's always one or the other
251 2012-03-12 02:23:47 <etotheipi_> so every key is either in 'key', or there is an 'mkey' and a list of 'ckey's
252 2012-03-12 02:23:54 <sipa> etotheipi_: indeed
253 2012-03-12 02:24:02 <etotheipi_> perfect, thanks
254 2012-03-12 02:24:35 <sipa> i hope to get confirmation from slush about BIP30 soon
255 2012-03-12 02:24:52 <sipa> and [Tycho] said he would deploy soon as well
256 2012-03-12 02:27:15 _h4ckm3 has joined
257 2012-03-12 02:28:52 <gmaxwell> We should also cut a new 0.6.0rc with the BIP30 fix in it tooâ
258 2012-03-12 02:29:16 <gmaxwell> so we can tell miners on 0.6rc to go to that, miners on 0.5 to go to 0.5.3, and anyone else to take the bip30 patches.
259 2012-03-12 02:29:50 <luke-jr> FWIW, I requested a CVE for the BIP30 issue
260 2012-03-12 02:30:01 <luke-jr> and Gentoo has a security bug open on it waiting for 0.5.3
261 2012-03-12 02:32:18 eoss has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
262 2012-03-12 02:32:34 <luke-jr> rc4 rolled out to Gentoo overlay users
263 2012-03-12 02:33:52 <luke-jr> booting gitian VM to try buildingâ¦
264 2012-03-12 02:35:58 Samuel has quit (Quit: Page closed)
265 2012-03-12 02:36:22 hahuang65 has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
266 2012-03-12 02:36:59 <luke-jr> sipa: gmaxwell: want to mirror the tags to github?
267 2012-03-12 02:39:55 <etotheipi_> sipa, what is "defaultkey"?
268 2012-03-12 02:41:30 Diablo-D3 has joined
269 2012-03-12 02:41:39 <sipa> luke-jr: we should, i think
270 2012-03-12 02:41:44 <sipa> etotheipi_: ignore
271 2012-03-12 02:41:50 <etotheipi_> thanks
272 2012-03-12 02:41:59 <sipa> doesn't exist anymore since the transition to bitcoin-qt
273 2012-03-12 02:42:12 <luke-jr> sipa: I'm not sure which stable tags are missing, probably a lot. But at least rc4s.
274 2012-03-12 02:46:12 <sipa> luke-jr: i just pushed 0.5.3rc4 now
275 2012-03-12 02:49:31 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
276 2012-03-12 02:52:15 da2ce7 has joined
277 2012-03-12 02:58:28 JRWR has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
278 2012-03-12 02:59:47 <sipa> luke-jr: 5ee66e1ad3cda3fb1877c500d89dfd860c0ce4b922c99684a24a1d5e81b06b1e bin/64/bitcoin-qt
279 2012-03-12 03:02:22 <luke-jr> gitian is so slow
280 2012-03-12 03:07:39 <etotheipi_> why is the 'mkey' entry in the Satoshi wallet 48 bytes? I assume this is the master encryption key for the wallet, which should be 32 bytes
281 2012-03-12 03:07:54 <sipa> there's more information in it
282 2012-03-12 03:08:10 <ayurveda> its got extra bytes
283 2012-03-12 03:08:12 <etotheipi_> what more information do you need than salt, IV and master key?
284 2012-03-12 03:08:36 <ayurveda> extra bytes.. just to be safe
285 2012-03-12 03:08:52 <etotheipi_> it looks like the salt is a separate field, and the decryption key and iv are created from the passphrase
286 2012-03-12 03:09:05 <sipa> etotheipi_: let me look it up
287 2012-03-12 03:09:34 <ayurveda> the padding is there just in case
288 2012-03-12 03:09:40 <etotheipi_> I'm looking at pywallet, but it looks like he's just plugging in all 48 bytes into AES... which doesn't make sense to me, unless it's truncating the last 16 bytes
289 2012-03-12 03:10:23 <sipa> etotheipi_: cryptedmasterkey, salt, nDerivationMethod, nDeriveIterations, vchOtherDerivationParameters
290 2012-03-12 03:10:31 <JFK911> i like turkeys.
291 2012-03-12 03:10:55 <ayurveda> more bytes = more protection against bit theft
292 2012-03-12 03:11:12 <sipa> ayurveda: do you have anything useful to add as well?
293 2012-03-12 03:11:32 <sipa> etotheipi_: method is always 0 for now, EVP_SHA512, indeed to derive key and IV
294 2012-03-12 03:12:29 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
295 2012-03-12 03:13:05 <ayurveda> gots to have the bytes
296 2012-03-12 03:14:33 Cablesaurus has joined
297 2012-03-12 03:14:33 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
298 2012-03-12 03:14:33 Cablesaurus has joined
299 2012-03-12 03:17:21 <luke-jr> sipa: was that a SHA512 btw?
300 2012-03-12 03:20:40 <sipa> i suppose; it's what it put in the report file
301 2012-03-12 03:21:27 <nanotube> luke-jr: what's that about rc4
302 2012-03-12 03:22:27 <luke-jr> nanotube: 0.4.4, 0.5.0.4, and 0.5.3 need to be final-released by the 15th
303 2012-03-12 03:22:53 <luke-jr> nanotube: Gavin likes a minimum of X downloads before doing a final, so if you can upload rc4 to SourceForge to track it, that'd help get it done in time
304 2012-03-12 03:23:04 <sipa> my builds are ready
305 2012-03-12 03:23:05 <nanotube> 0.5.0.4 ? are we now tracking 3 branches?
306 2012-03-12 03:23:16 <sipa> i only care about 0.5.3 right now
307 2012-03-12 03:23:16 <luke-jr> nanotube: I am. I expect only 0.5.3 actually needs to be on SF tho
308 2012-03-12 03:23:28 <luke-jr> nanotube: when 0.6 is final, I'm going to drop 0.5.0.x
309 2012-03-12 03:24:04 <sipa> what files do you need for a release?
310 2012-03-12 03:24:04 <luke-jr> sipa: do you know how to repackage them into release zips?
311 2012-03-12 03:24:10 <sipa> no
312 2012-03-12 03:24:44 <luke-jr> doc/release-notes.txt says
313 2012-03-12 03:24:49 <luke-jr> release-process.txt*
314 2012-03-12 03:25:45 <luke-jr> I'll work on the release notes etc
315 2012-03-12 03:26:38 <luke-jr> actually, I already did that for rc3, so no big dela for rc4
316 2012-03-12 03:26:39 <luke-jr> deal*
317 2012-03-12 03:26:46 <nanotube> well... if someone can give me the standard filesets for the rc4 releases, including 6 files (readme, shasums.asc, zip, exe, dmg, and tar.gz), i can push them up in the appropriate directories on sf.net frs.
318 2012-03-12 03:26:57 <nanotube> assuming there's concensus that the rc4 is ready for release
319 2012-03-12 03:27:04 <nanotube> consensus that is.
320 2012-03-12 03:27:37 <luke-jr> nanotube: I think only Gavin can build DMG, so that one won't be ready tonight
321 2012-03-12 03:27:57 smtmnyz_ has joined
322 2012-03-12 03:28:22 smtmnyz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
323 2012-03-12 03:28:46 <sipa> bah, gitian cleans its output directory
324 2012-03-12 03:29:01 <nanotube> well sans dmg would be fine too
325 2012-03-12 03:29:03 <sipa> so i'll need to rebuild
326 2012-03-12 03:31:09 BlueMatt has joined
327 2012-03-12 03:32:41 TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)
328 2012-03-12 03:32:43 <luke-jr> :|
329 2012-03-12 03:32:54 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: wanna make the 3rd build of 0.5.3rc4?
330 2012-03-12 03:32:56 [7] has joined
331 2012-03-12 03:33:22 <BlueMatt> sure give me a sec
332 2012-03-12 03:34:05 ayurveda has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
333 2012-03-12 03:44:08 <sipa> gmaxwell: had a chance to look at #930?
334 2012-03-12 03:44:24 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
335 2012-03-12 03:44:33 gruez has quit (Quit: Page closed)
336 2012-03-12 03:44:45 dissipate has joined
337 2012-03-12 03:45:01 <etotheipi_> sipa, my question isn't really answered
338 2012-03-12 03:45:54 <sipa> did you ever use the wx gui?
339 2012-03-12 03:45:56 <etotheipi_> the master key is encrypted... I plug in passphrase, salt and IV to decrypt it: this decrypts to 48 bytes... then this master key is used to decrypt all the other private keys in the wallet
340 2012-03-12 03:46:09 <sipa> eh no
341 2012-03-12 03:46:23 <etotheipi_> okay, then I misunderstood how it works
342 2012-03-12 03:46:48 <etotheipi_> er... passphrase gives me an IV and decryption key, used to decrypt the master key
343 2012-03-12 03:46:49 <sipa> you have the passphrase, you use the derivation method n times to produce a key and and IV
344 2012-03-12 03:47:00 <sipa> those key and IV encrypt a 32-byte master key
345 2012-03-12 03:47:43 <etotheipi_> sipa, right, but the master key in the database is actually 48 bytes
346 2012-03-12 03:48:21 <sipa> is it?
347 2012-03-12 03:48:50 <sipa> 04:09:59 < sipa> etotheipi_: cryptedmasterkey, salt, nDerivationMethod, nDeriveIterations, vchOtherDerivationParameters
348 2012-03-12 03:49:00 <sipa> isn't all those together that are 48 bytes?
349 2012-03-12 03:51:46 <etotheipi_> sipa, the mkey entry actually has [cryptedmasterkey(48), salt(8), method(4), numIter(4), other(?)]
350 2012-03-12 03:52:33 <etotheipi_> I wonder if there's 16 bytes of zeros to confirm that you used the proper passphrase...?
351 2012-03-12 03:53:03 <sipa> what?
352 2012-03-12 03:53:06 <sipa> this shouldn't be
353 2012-03-12 03:54:00 <etotheipi_> well method is usually 0, which would be 4 consecutive zero bytes
354 2012-03-12 03:54:10 <etotheipi_> but my crypted key is : "952780440ebb9fedc1edeed680aef20d19a010338db8bbe2210788cec3008af7423d4645523ae93e2cc072517241d7ab"
355 2012-03-12 03:54:50 <etotheipi_> hold on, let me try to actually decrypt it
356 2012-03-12 03:56:09 <etotheipi_> well, I don't even know if my decryption algorithm is set up correctly... that's what I'm trying to do right now
357 2012-03-12 03:58:44 <etotheipi_> sipa, looks like I was ...right? decrypted key has sixteen 0x10 bytes at the end
358 2012-03-12 03:58:55 <etotheipi_> (and it turns out I did setup decryption correctly)
359 2012-03-12 03:59:07 <BlueMatt> decrypted which key, mkey or ckey?
360 2012-03-12 03:59:19 <etotheipi_> mkey
361 2012-03-12 03:59:29 <BlueMatt> wtf?
362 2012-03-12 04:00:56 <sipa> BlueMatt:
363 2012-03-12 04:00:58 <sipa> // max ciphertext len for a n bytes of plaintext is
364 2012-03-12 04:00:59 <sipa> // n + AES_BLOCK_SIZE - 1 bytes
365 2012-03-12 04:00:59 <sipa> int nLen = vchPlaintext.size();
366 2012-03-12 04:00:59 <sipa> int nCLen = nLen + AES_BLOCK_SIZE, nFLen = 0;
367 2012-03-12 04:01:01 <sipa> vchCiphertext = std::vector<unsigned char> (nCLen);
368 2012-03-12 04:01:16 <sipa> why is AES_BLOCK_SIZE added there? :p
369 2012-03-12 04:01:27 <BlueMatt> I didnt write that comment
370 2012-03-12 04:01:39 <BlueMatt> I copied it from (IIRC) jgarzik's original crypter thing
371 2012-03-12 04:01:47 <sipa> it explains a lot :)
372 2012-03-12 04:01:55 <etotheipi_> okay, so I'm not going crazy
373 2012-03-12 04:02:17 <BlueMatt> so is it using those 0x10 bytes in the key, or just ignoring them?
374 2012-03-12 04:02:29 <sipa> just ignoring them, i suppose
375 2012-03-12 04:02:36 <etotheipi_> yeah, they must just be truncated off
376 2012-03-12 04:02:43 <BlueMatt> hmm, odd
377 2012-03-12 04:03:27 <sipa> we should test that
378 2012-03-12 04:03:39 <sipa> however, it means we lost one part of security of the wallet (not one we relied one, but still)
379 2012-03-12 04:03:57 <etotheipi_> sipa, what do you mean?
380 2012-03-12 04:04:02 <sipa> it was intended that an attacker would need an EC multiply to check whether a passphrase was correct
381 2012-03-12 04:04:03 * BlueMatt is too tired to be thinking through any of this...
382 2012-03-12 04:04:14 <etotheipi_> btw, I have a hunch why it might be done
383 2012-03-12 04:04:14 <sipa> now he can just check for those extra 16 bytes
384 2012-03-12 04:04:23 <sipa> me too; see the code above
385 2012-03-12 04:04:39 splatster is now known as BobSagget
386 2012-03-12 04:04:58 a_meteorite has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
387 2012-03-12 04:05:06 <etotheipi_> oh, I thought it might have to do with the AES mode
388 2012-03-12 04:05:13 a_meteorite has joined
389 2012-03-12 04:05:18 <etotheipi_> sometimes the first encrypted block is "unprotected" by the IV
390 2012-03-12 04:05:21 <sipa> it shoud be (nLen + AES_BLOCK_SIZE - 1) / AES_BLOCKSIZE * AES_BLOCK_SIZE
391 2012-03-12 04:05:30 <luke-jr> How's this look: http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/bitcoin-0.5.3/test/rc4/README.txt
392 2012-03-12 04:05:51 <etotheipi_> although that is the last AES block...
393 2012-03-12 04:06:13 BobSagget is now known as splatster
394 2012-03-12 04:06:23 <BlueMatt> luke-jr "based on 0.5.1"
395 2012-03-12 04:06:26 <BlueMatt> you mean 0.5.2?
396 2012-03-12 04:06:45 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I mean 0.5.1, the branch point from master.
397 2012-03-12 04:06:51 <BlueMatt> oh, ok
398 2012-03-12 04:07:00 <luke-jr> not sure if there's a better way to say that
399 2012-03-12 04:07:05 <BlueMatt> the gitorious link is wrong, but I guess that has to wait for 0.5.3 anyway
400 2012-03-12 04:07:07 <devrandom> sipa: sorry about that (gitian cleaning output)
401 2012-03-12 04:07:27 <nanotube> luke-jr: based on 0.5.1, or based on 0.5.2 ?
402 2012-03-12 04:07:30 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: ah, good find
403 2012-03-12 04:07:39 <luke-jr> nanotube: 0.5.1 was the last non-bugfix version
404 2012-03-12 04:07:52 <sipa> devrandom: i wouldn't now what the better option would be, actually
405 2012-03-12 04:07:53 <nanotube> heh i see i'm too late and bluematt beat me to the question anyway haha
406 2012-03-12 04:07:58 <luke-jr> :D
407 2012-03-12 04:08:05 <sipa> devrandom: maybe let the output dir depend on a release name?
408 2012-03-12 04:08:27 <luke-jr> any ideas how to rephrase it to not prompt that question?
409 2012-03-12 04:08:36 <devrandom> sipa: either that, or ask for confirm...
410 2012-03-12 04:09:00 <luke-jr> btw, my Win32 builds are done
411 2012-03-12 04:09:56 <luke-jr> 2a2877ccbbe4233287d66088e4d1e37032d2057426bb4dbed096bd9b8c24ec2b bitcoin-0.5.3rc4-win32-setup.exe
412 2012-03-12 04:10:55 <sipa> luke-jr: ACK
413 2012-03-12 04:11:04 <luke-jr> sipa: ACK on README or win32?
414 2012-03-12 04:11:05 <sipa> same here (already pushed to gitian sigs)
415 2012-03-12 04:11:10 <luke-jr> k
416 2012-03-12 04:11:21 <BlueMatt> pushed my sigs for 0.5.3rc4 linux
417 2012-03-12 04:11:23 <BlueMatt> matched sipas
418 2012-03-12 04:11:25 BeTep has quit (Disconnected by services)
419 2012-03-12 04:11:29 Ahimoth_ has joined
420 2012-03-12 04:11:30 Ahimoth_ has quit (Changing host)
421 2012-03-12 04:11:30 Ahimoth_ has joined
422 2012-03-12 04:11:44 <luke-jr> either of you post Linux build? :P
423 2012-03-12 04:11:45 weather has joined
424 2012-03-12 04:11:52 <BlueMatt> oh, do you need that?
425 2012-03-12 04:11:52 Ahimoth has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
426 2012-03-12 04:11:55 <BlueMatt> I just overwrote it...
427 2012-03-12 04:11:58 <luke-jr> to upload it -.-
428 2012-03-12 04:12:09 <luke-jr> I guess I can wait for mine to finish
429 2012-03-12 04:12:09 <BlueMatt> I thought you were gitian building now too?
430 2012-03-12 04:12:17 <luke-jr> yeah, just SLOW
431 2012-03-12 04:12:31 <luke-jr> I should see about letting my gitian VM use 2 cores
432 2012-03-12 04:12:34 <sipa> hmm, my win setup exe has no rc4 in its name
433 2012-03-12 04:12:41 <sipa> did you rename afterwards, luke-jr?
434 2012-03-12 04:12:41 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: just add -j2
435 2012-03-12 04:12:44 <luke-jr> sipa: yeah
436 2012-03-12 04:12:52 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no, I mean the VM I run gitian inside
437 2012-03-12 04:13:04 <BlueMatt> yea, gitian handles that just call it with -j2
438 2012-03-12 04:13:09 <luke-jr> ⦠:p
439 2012-03-12 04:13:12 <BlueMatt> (call gbuild)
440 2012-03-12 04:13:17 a_meteor has joined
441 2012-03-12 04:13:23 <BlueMatt> or use -j4
442 2012-03-12 04:13:24 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: qemu-system-x86_64 gitian.hdi -m 1500 -ctrl-grab -cpu host,+vmx &
443 2012-03-12 04:13:32 <luke-jr> ^ that one
444 2012-03-12 04:13:39 <BlueMatt> what gitian are you using?
445 2012-03-12 04:13:51 <luke-jr> gitian.hdi is a qemu image with Ubuntu
446 2012-03-12 04:13:54 a_meteorite has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
447 2012-03-12 04:13:55 a_meteor is now known as a_meteorite
448 2012-03-12 04:14:02 <BlueMatt> wtf are you running on?
449 2012-03-12 04:14:04 <etotheipi_> sipa, btw it looks like the encrypted keys (ckeys) are also 48 bytes and have the same sixteen bytes of 0x10
450 2012-03-12 04:14:15 <BlueMatt> why dont you just use the gitian scripts that are already written???
451 2012-03-12 04:14:39 <etotheipi_> (and it looks like my Satoshi-wallet-decryption is working :))
452 2012-03-12 04:14:46 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: gitian only works on Ubuntu
453 2012-03-12 04:14:49 <sipa> etotheipi_: nice!
454 2012-03-12 04:14:56 skeledrew has joined
455 2012-03-12 04:14:57 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: so I have an Ubuntu qemu VM, that I installed gitian inside
456 2012-03-12 04:15:00 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: aside from the make-base-vm stuff, it shuld work anywhere
457 2012-03-12 04:15:18 <BlueMatt> just get the base vm from an ubuntu box
458 2012-03-12 04:15:19 <sipa> that explains the speed :)
459 2012-03-12 04:15:19 <etotheipi_> sipa, I'm curious why it is 0x10... does it always use that byte
460 2012-03-12 04:15:35 weather is now known as BeTep
461 2012-03-12 04:15:36 <luke-jr> sipa: VMX not as effective as I assumed? :P
462 2012-03-12 04:15:41 <BlueMatt> so if we drop the 0x10 will old clients still decrypt properly?
463 2012-03-12 04:15:51 <sipa> BlueMatt: i assume so
464 2012-03-12 04:15:54 <etotheipi_> I mean, if I was trying to guess someone's encryption key, can I always just check for trailing 0x10 bytes?
465 2012-03-12 04:16:03 <BlueMatt> so, anyone want to volunteer to fix it then?
466 2012-03-12 04:16:03 <sipa> etotheipi_: indeed
467 2012-03-12 04:16:03 JRWR has joined
468 2012-03-12 04:16:18 <sipa> not at this hour
469 2012-03-12 04:16:33 <etotheipi_> I'm intrigued as to why this didn't crop up anywhere else
470 2012-03-12 04:16:41 <BlueMatt> same here (damn long days of flying...)
471 2012-03-12 04:16:42 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: ever see Inception?
472 2012-03-12 04:16:50 <etotheipi_> in my case, it's because Crypto++ refuses non-32-byte encryption/decryption keys
473 2012-03-12 04:16:52 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: yes, and that has to do with anything how?
474 2012-03-12 04:16:54 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: that's what I'm doing, except with VMs instead of dreams.
475 2012-03-12 04:17:02 <BlueMatt> oh...
476 2012-03-12 04:17:20 <sipa> they get slower, instead of faster though :p
477 2012-03-12 04:17:26 <sipa> nanotube: how to create shasums.asc ?
478 2012-03-12 04:17:31 JRWR has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
479 2012-03-12 04:17:32 <luke-jr> sipa: gpg
480 2012-03-12 04:17:40 <BlueMatt> sipa: depends on how you define faster in inception...
481 2012-03-12 04:17:40 <sipa> luke-jr: thank you, that is helpful :)
482 2012-03-12 04:17:42 <luke-jr> sipa: I usually sign the stable releases
483 2012-03-12 04:17:48 <BlueMatt> seriously, spin up an ubuntu vm, call the make-base-vm stuff, and the rest should work fine outside of ubuntu
484 2012-03-12 04:17:56 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it still needs Ruby
485 2012-03-12 04:18:00 <BlueMatt> and?
486 2012-03-12 04:18:07 <luke-jr> I'd rather not install it on my real system.
487 2012-03-12 04:18:18 <luke-jr> Ubuntu VM works. Just not as fast as I'd expected.
488 2012-03-12 04:18:22 <BlueMatt> why not install ruby in its own directory, not like you have to install it in /usr or whatever
489 2012-03-12 04:18:40 <nanotube> sipa: it's a clearsigned message. gpg --clearsign
490 2012-03-12 04:19:48 <captain^k> bitcointools gives me 'ERROR:root:Couldn't open wallet.dat/main. Try quitting Bitcoin and running this again.' ;(
491 2012-03-12 04:19:51 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: better question IMO is why gitian not a chroot-based Python script so it works everywhere? :P
492 2012-03-12 04:20:19 <luke-jr> nanotube: if you want to start early, http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/bitcoin-0.5.3/test/rc4/README.txt and Win32 bins at http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/bitcoin-0.5.3/test/rc4/ look good to go
493 2012-03-12 04:20:35 <sipa> luke-jr: i doubt chroot suffices
494 2012-03-12 04:20:49 <BlueMatt> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/933
495 2012-03-12 04:20:51 <etotheipi_> sipa, I meant, is it always going to be 0x10? Is that actually in the bitcoin code? or is it an artifact from somewhere else?
496 2012-03-12 04:20:54 <luke-jr> sipa: I doubt it doesn't.
497 2012-03-12 04:21:02 <sipa> luke-jr: be my guest then
498 2012-03-12 04:21:06 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: because not everyone uses pythong?
499 2012-03-12 04:21:11 h4ckm3 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
500 2012-03-12 04:21:18 <BlueMatt> etotheipi_: ^ sipa
501 2012-03-12 04:21:20 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it's not really possible to run a system w/o Python anymore :P
502 2012-03-12 04:21:40 <sipa> where is the time when everything was still perl :p
503 2012-03-12 04:21:41 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: TheBlueMatt opened issue 933 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/933>
504 2012-03-12 04:21:53 <captain^k> when running 'C:\Apps\PC\BitCoin\gavinandresen-bitcointools-b59f7ef>c:\Python27\python.exe dbdump.py --wallet --datadir=c:\apps\pc\bitcoin\data-main'
505 2012-03-12 04:21:55 <luke-jr> sipa: I know, I wish it still was :<
506 2012-03-12 04:22:05 <captain^k> with just wallet.dat in there
507 2012-03-12 04:22:23 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: most people use it, but some people dont...so what?
508 2012-03-12 04:22:33 <BlueMatt> its a dev tool, devs can be expected to install deps
509 2012-03-12 04:22:33 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: most people don't use Ruby.
510 2012-03-12 04:22:41 <BlueMatt> (thats why gitian-downloader is python)
511 2012-03-12 04:22:49 <luke-jr> O.o
512 2012-03-12 04:23:00 <sipa> luke-jr: i hope that "most people don't use it" is not a reason not to use it
513 2012-03-12 04:23:15 <luke-jr> sipa: when there's no good reason to deviate from the norm, it is for me ;p
514 2012-03-12 04:23:24 <BlueMatt> most people dont use bitcoin, so now luke-jr wont
515 2012-03-12 04:23:27 <sipa> the joy of statism
516 2012-03-12 04:23:36 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: there's a good reason to, though!
517 2012-03-12 04:23:40 <BlueMatt> oh?
518 2012-03-12 04:23:47 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: can't do tonal with USD
519 2012-03-12 04:24:12 <captain^k> most people don't use tonal, so we shouldn't support that
520 2012-03-12 04:24:13 <captain^k> hehe
521 2012-03-12 04:24:15 word has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
522 2012-03-12 04:24:29 <etotheipi_> luke-jr, you can't use tonal in BTC, either
523 2012-03-12 04:24:37 <luke-jr> etotheipi_: can with Bitcoin
524 2012-03-12 04:25:01 <sipa> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
525 2012-03-12 04:25:01 <sipa> Hash: SHA512
526 2012-03-12 04:25:06 <etotheipi_> not if you want to trade your BTC with anyone else...
527 2012-03-12 04:25:20 <sipa> did some tool put that "Hash: SHA512" there, or was it added manually?
528 2012-03-12 04:25:22 word has joined
529 2012-03-12 04:25:23 word has quit (Changing host)
530 2012-03-12 04:25:23 word has joined
531 2012-03-12 04:25:32 <nanotube> sipa: gpg --clearsign puts the hash algo there automagically
532 2012-03-12 04:25:43 <sipa> heh
533 2012-03-12 04:26:40 <sipa> oh, it is gpg's hash function, it has nothing to do with the checksums
534 2012-03-12 04:26:45 <luke-jr> ;;later tell gavinandresen when you get a chance, please build 0.5.3rc4 for Mac?
535 2012-03-12 04:26:46 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
536 2012-03-12 04:28:05 <nanotube> sipa: yes :)
537 2012-03-12 04:28:17 <sipa> nanotube: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/builds/0.5.3rc4/
538 2012-03-12 04:28:18 * luke-jr wonders what % of Macs sold only exist for targetting Mac/iPhone
539 2012-03-12 04:28:44 <sipa> luke-jr: surprisingly few, i think
540 2012-03-12 04:28:44 <luke-jr> Connecting to bitcoin.sipa.be|2a02:348:5e:5a29::1|:80⦠failed: Connection refused.
541 2012-03-12 04:29:04 <BlueMatt> sipa: has bad ipv6...shame on you
542 2012-03-12 04:30:47 <sipa> hmm, ok, restarted webserver after making it listen on :80, but now it says port is in use
543 2012-03-12 04:30:53 <sipa> wait a minute
544 2012-03-12 04:31:05 <sipa> eh, after making it listen on ipv6
545 2012-03-12 04:31:53 <luke-jr> now it's down on v4 too :p
546 2012-03-12 04:32:07 <sipa> yes, i know
547 2012-03-12 04:32:13 <sipa> that's what i said
548 2012-03-12 04:32:20 * BlueMatt votes no-confidence in sipa being server admin
549 2012-03-12 04:32:30 <sipa> haha
550 2012-03-12 04:32:52 stochastic_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
551 2012-03-12 04:33:21 <sipa> lighttpd fail
552 2012-03-12 04:33:30 <BlueMatt> aww, I like lighttpd
553 2012-03-12 04:33:34 <sipa> that ipv6 script doesn't work
554 2012-03-12 04:33:42 larsivi has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
555 2012-03-12 04:33:46 larsivi has joined
556 2012-03-12 04:33:56 <BlueMatt> oh, yea IIRC its ipv6 stuff is backwards as hell
557 2012-03-12 04:34:15 <luke-jr> nanotube: anyhow, complete (except for Mac): http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/bitcoin-0.5.3/test/rc4/
558 2012-03-12 04:34:29 <Dagger2> try just asking it to listen on v6? if you have net.ipv6.bindv6only turned off it should then work on v4 too
559 2012-03-12 04:35:20 <luke-jr> Eloipool only support IPv6, but gets IPv4 connections anyway :D
560 2012-03-12 04:35:32 <sipa> sure, that's how you do it
561 2012-03-12 04:35:50 <sipa> not sure how to tell lighttpd to listen on ipv6
562 2012-03-12 04:35:58 <nanotube> luke-jr: sipa: your win32.zips are different.
563 2012-03-12 04:36:06 <nanotube> the linux tar.gz and win setup.exe are the same
564 2012-03-12 04:36:08 <luke-jr> nanotube: the contents aren't, I think
565 2012-03-12 04:36:35 <sipa> aha, got it
566 2012-03-12 04:36:35 <BlueMatt> nanotube: always check releases against github.com/bitcoin/gitian.sigs
567 2012-03-12 04:36:40 <sipa> server.bind = "[::]"
568 2012-03-12 04:36:46 <sipa> luke-jr: try again
569 2012-03-12 04:37:41 <sipa> nanotube: use gverify, i guess
570 2012-03-12 04:37:52 <BlueMatt> yea
571 2012-03-12 04:38:34 <luke-jr> is there a reason gitian-win32 doesn't do the zipping for us?
572 2012-03-12 04:39:15 <BlueMatt> convenience for when we use gitian-downloader later, mostly
573 2012-03-12 04:39:53 <Dagger2> sipa: working now
574 2012-03-12 04:40:04 <nanotube> ok i haven't really used gitian, anyone care to tell me where i find this 'gverify' and how the whole process works? or point me to some docs?
575 2012-03-12 04:40:26 <nanotube> (would have been so much simpler if the win32 zips just matched :P )
576 2012-03-12 04:40:28 <BlueMatt> my win32 sigs match sipas
577 2012-03-12 04:41:27 <luke-jr> oh
578 2012-03-12 04:41:35 <luke-jr> sipa/bluematt: did you make a dir for the zip?
579 2012-03-12 04:41:56 <BlueMatt> just my sigs (ie the zip's contents) not the zip
580 2012-03-12 04:42:00 <BlueMatt> I didnt make a zip
581 2012-03-12 04:42:29 <sipa> luke-jr: i just did what release-doc sayd
582 2012-03-12 04:42:31 <sipa> said
583 2012-03-12 04:42:37 <luke-jr> :D
584 2012-03-12 04:44:39 <luke-jr> with VERSION=0.5.3 or 0.5.3rc4?
585 2012-03-12 04:45:01 <BlueMatt> nanotube: git clone https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder.git; cd gitian-builder; mkdir -p build/out; cd build/out; unzip something.zip; cd ../..; ./bin/gverify -r "v0.X.XrcX[-win32]" -d ../gitian.sigs/; ../bitcoin/contrib/gitian-descriptors/gitian[-win32].yml
586 2012-03-12 04:45:05 <devrandom> BlueMatt: here's a good way to shasum a directory:
587 2012-03-12 04:45:17 <BlueMatt> nanotube: with a git clone https://github.com/bitcoin/gitian.sigs first
588 2012-03-12 04:45:23 <devrandom> find . -name .git -prune -o -name .svn -prune -o -type f -print0 | sort -z | xargs -0 -n 10 sha256sum
589 2012-03-12 04:45:47 <sipa> luke-jr: 0.5.3rc4
590 2012-03-12 04:45:57 <BlueMatt> devrandom: nice...
591 2012-03-12 04:45:59 * BlueMatt -> bed
592 2012-03-12 04:46:22 <devrandom> but yeah, gverify is good for the official sigs
593 2012-03-12 04:46:24 <luke-jr> sipa: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/934
594 2012-03-12 04:46:31 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
595 2012-03-12 04:46:45 <[Tycho]> Wow, my new strange TXes are finally mined :)
596 2012-03-12 04:47:13 <luke-jr> http://blockchain.info/tx-index/3272656/c0b69d1e5ed13732dbd704604f7c08bc96549cc556c464aa42cc7525b3897987
597 2012-03-12 04:47:17 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: thanks
598 2012-03-12 04:47:35 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: luke-jr opened pull request 934 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/934>
599 2012-03-12 04:47:50 olp has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
600 2012-03-12 04:47:55 <[Tycho]> This was a test for that address thing.
601 2012-03-12 04:48:09 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: my script noticed it :P
602 2012-03-12 04:48:30 <[Tycho]> Do you parse all the TXes to find free ones ?
603 2012-03-12 04:49:03 <luke-jr> yes
604 2012-03-12 04:50:26 <freewil> are you guys maintaining a changelog for the release candidates?
605 2012-03-12 04:50:28 <luke-jr> nanotube: verified the contents of the ZIPs are identical
606 2012-03-12 04:50:34 <luke-jr> freewil: ?
607 2012-03-12 04:50:41 <[Tycho]> Actually I can still redeem it before you :)
608 2012-03-12 04:50:47 <luke-jr> freewil: http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/bitcoin-0.5.3/test/rc4/README.txt
609 2012-03-12 04:50:49 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: perhaps.
610 2012-03-12 04:51:01 <freewil> luke-jr, thank you much
611 2012-03-12 04:51:13 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: unfortunately for you, my redemption script is standard. ;)
612 2012-03-12 04:51:20 <luke-jr> so probably you won't.
613 2012-03-12 04:51:36 <[Tycho]> Blockchaininfo doesn't shows your tx
614 2012-03-12 04:51:57 <luke-jr> o rly
615 2012-03-12 04:51:59 <luke-jr> interesting
616 2012-03-12 04:52:11 <[Tycho]> And their wallet doesn't detects multisigs and that TX too...
617 2012-03-12 04:52:13 <[Tycho]> Strange
618 2012-03-12 04:52:28 <nanotube> luke-jr: working on gitian :)
619 2012-03-12 04:52:39 <nanotube> luke-jr: btw, have you figured out why the zips themselves are not identical?
620 2012-03-12 04:53:00 <luke-jr> nanotube: maybe different versions of ZIP ;p
621 2012-03-12 04:53:19 <luke-jr> This is Zip 3.0 (July 5th 2008), by Info-ZIP.
622 2012-03-12 04:54:59 <[Tycho]> BBE still shows multisigs as "Strange"...
623 2012-03-12 04:55:18 <luke-jr> fwiw, confirmed sipa's Linux bins here
624 2012-03-12 04:56:01 <luke-jr> nanotube: I'm fine with just copying sipa's zip if that makes it easier :P
625 2012-03-12 04:56:11 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Man who run behind car get exhausted)
626 2012-03-12 04:57:21 <luke-jr> there, my dir just has his ZIP now
627 2012-03-12 04:59:19 Flargles has joined
628 2012-03-12 04:59:21 <nanotube> just curious. :) i have gotten gitian to run and check sigs now. just need to get bluematt's key.... :)
629 2012-03-12 05:06:19 splatster has left ("Linkinus - http://linkinus.com")
630 2012-03-12 05:06:21 splatster has joined
631 2012-03-12 05:07:58 Flargles has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
632 2012-03-12 05:10:39 ThomasV has joined
633 2012-03-12 05:10:47 <nanotube> yea contents of both you and sipa verified. as the same. \o/
634 2012-03-12 05:11:40 captain^k has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
635 2012-03-12 05:12:35 splatster has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
636 2012-03-12 05:12:38 * luke-jr just unzipped them and used diff <.<
637 2012-03-12 05:13:11 olp has joined
638 2012-03-12 05:21:49 forsetifox_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
639 2012-03-12 05:22:45 andytoshi has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
640 2012-03-12 05:24:23 <nanotube> 053rc4 is up on sf.net frs
641 2012-03-12 05:27:06 Flargles_ has joined
642 2012-03-12 05:32:05 <Raccoon> hey nanotube
643 2012-03-12 05:34:23 <nanotube> sup Raccoon
644 2012-03-12 05:35:52 <Raccoon> any way to allow gribble to do channel managment in ##coders?
645 2012-03-12 05:36:17 <nanotube> what's in ##coders, and what kind of 'channel management' are we talking about :)
646 2012-03-12 05:37:18 <Raccoon> well, gribble's in ##coders :) just op/voice/ban/kick type commands. does he do those?
647 2012-03-12 05:40:24 <Raccoon> topic ##coders General programming help - Any language - Ask for examples if you want - Ask someone to write it for you if you must - RTFM is a 4 letter word here - Freelance coders welcome!
648 2012-03-12 05:42:29 <luke-jr> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=68339.0
649 2012-03-12 05:42:33 splatster has joined
650 2012-03-12 05:45:43 RazielZ has joined
651 2012-03-12 05:48:16 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
652 2012-03-12 06:00:30 localhost has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
653 2012-03-12 06:04:11 localhost has joined
654 2012-03-12 06:10:11 <nanotube> Raccoon: if you have chanop, you automatically have op capabilities and can use kick/kban commands
655 2012-03-12 06:10:37 Cablesaurus has joined
656 2012-03-12 06:10:37 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
657 2012-03-12 06:10:37 Cablesaurus has joined
658 2012-03-12 06:14:14 <Raccoon> indeed.
659 2012-03-12 06:14:35 <nanotube> Raccoon: be sure to check out the 'help kban' (most useful command ever :) ), and 'help kick'. also a few other things in 'list channel'
660 2012-03-12 06:14:48 <Raccoon> i was just wondering if i could deligate through gribble and not have to give users flags on the chan
661 2012-03-12 06:15:07 <Raccoon> oh, you do mean through gribble
662 2012-03-12 06:15:24 <nanotube> yes
663 2012-03-12 06:15:35 <Raccoon> but i would have to be opped up?
664 2012-03-12 06:15:39 <nanotube> users who have chanop on the channel can generally use those.
665 2012-03-12 06:15:57 <nanotube> otherwise, i'd have to create accounts for your users, and give them op capability, and it'd be kind of a pita for me ;)
666 2012-03-12 06:16:00 <Raccoon> what's special about kban?
667 2012-03-12 06:16:05 <nanotube> ;;help kban
668 2012-03-12 06:16:06 <gribble> (kban [<channel>] [--{exact,nick,user,host}] <nick> [<seconds>] [<reason>]) -- If you have the #channel,op capability, this will kickban <nick> for as many seconds as you specify, or else (if you specify 0 seconds or don't specify a number of seconds) it will ban the person indefinitely. --exact bans only the exact hostmask; --nick bans just the nick; --user bans just the user, and (1 more message)
669 2012-03-12 06:16:07 <Raccoon> aye
670 2012-03-12 06:16:14 <nanotube> it bans the guy, then kicks him. and you can set a timeout
671 2012-03-12 06:16:18 <nanotube> so the ban will be lifted
672 2012-03-12 06:16:19 <Raccoon> ok
673 2012-03-12 06:16:21 <nanotube> after that many seconds
674 2012-03-12 06:16:45 <Raccoon> so similar to mIRC's /ban -ku3600 for 1 hour
675 2012-03-12 06:17:14 <Raccoon> eg, /ban -ku3600 #bitcoin-dev nanotube 2 (two is the mask type. *!*@full.host.tld)
676 2012-03-12 06:19:52 <Raccoon> my thought was just the context of invisible ops to prevent vanity
677 2012-03-12 06:20:06 <Raccoon> i can go through chanserv
678 2012-03-12 06:21:00 <nanotube> mmm well, i'm about to sleep, let's reconvene tomorrow. :)
679 2012-03-12 06:21:14 <nanotube> luke-jr: thanks for posting. :)
680 2012-03-12 06:24:14 <splatster> Is there a download available of the testnet blockchain?
681 2012-03-12 06:24:30 <splatster> I don't want to have to verify every single block
682 2012-03-12 06:26:22 <nanotube> suck it up and deal with it splatster :D
683 2012-03-12 06:26:28 <splatster> :O
684 2012-03-12 06:26:44 <splatster> That's not very nice :(
685 2012-03-12 06:27:44 <nanotube> yea, that was just a hopefully-amusing way of saying "i don't know of any site hosting testnet blockchain dumps" :)
686 2012-03-12 06:27:44 <freewil> splatster, http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/blockchain/
687 2012-03-12 06:27:58 <nanotube> that's mainnet freewil
688 2012-03-12 06:28:06 <splatster> freewil: That's not testnet
689 2012-03-12 06:28:07 <freewil> oh testnet? yeah dont know about that
690 2012-03-12 06:29:07 <splatster> 268 fucking days to go :(
691 2012-03-12 06:29:09 <splatster> FFS
692 2012-03-12 06:30:27 <freewil> lol wtf
693 2012-03-12 06:30:29 <nanotube> on the plus side, a lot of tn blocks are empty
694 2012-03-12 06:30:36 <nanotube> so it goes pretty fast for most of it
695 2012-03-12 06:31:45 <splatster> Ya, but it seems to be slowing down the farther along I get
696 2012-03-12 06:32:02 <freewil> what bitcoin version are you using
697 2012-03-12 06:32:12 <splatster> 0.6 rc2
698 2012-03-12 06:32:17 <freewil> ok nevermind
699 2012-03-12 06:32:42 <freewil> i know there was a change in 0.6.x that made the blockchain download get stuck in 0.5.x
700 2012-03-12 06:32:52 <freewil> .. on testnet that is
701 2012-03-12 06:33:12 <luke-jr> freewil: no, just <= 0.5.2
702 2012-03-12 06:33:18 <luke-jr> freewil: 0.5.3 has the same change
703 2012-03-12 06:33:21 <splatster> Only about 20,000 blocks to go!
704 2012-03-12 06:33:26 <freewil> ok what luke-jr said
705 2012-03-12 06:33:52 <luke-jr> 0.4.4 should also be good
706 2012-03-12 06:34:30 <luke-jr> anyhow, night
707 2012-03-12 06:34:41 <freewil> yeah 0.5.3.rc4 seems to be working fine for me on testnet
708 2012-03-12 06:35:03 Ahimoth_ is now known as Ahimoth
709 2012-03-12 06:41:14 c_k has joined
710 2012-03-12 06:46:35 c_k is now known as captain^k
711 2012-03-12 06:46:44 <splatster> Almost done!
712 2012-03-12 06:46:58 <splatster> yay!
713 2012-03-12 06:47:11 <splatster> Now let's see if I mine any blocks...
714 2012-03-12 06:47:37 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
715 2012-03-12 06:48:28 captain^k is now known as parker
716 2012-03-12 06:48:34 parker is now known as captain^k
717 2012-03-12 06:56:38 merde has joined
718 2012-03-12 06:58:42 libcoin1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
719 2012-03-12 07:05:30 <mcorlett> Helpful tips for accepting zero-confirmation payments? Is transactionradar.com any good?
720 2012-03-12 07:07:38 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
721 2012-03-12 07:10:33 agricocb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
722 2012-03-12 07:20:40 twobitcoins__ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
723 2012-03-12 07:24:45 Raccoon has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
724 2012-03-12 07:25:42 Raccoon has joined
725 2012-03-12 07:36:42 Raccoon has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
726 2012-03-12 07:38:07 Raccoon has joined
727 2012-03-12 07:50:02 larsivi has joined
728 2012-03-12 07:51:52 <captain^k> mcorlett: I think blockchain.info do something with their API that is pretty good
729 2012-03-12 07:52:51 libcoin has joined
730 2012-03-12 07:59:17 enquirer_ has joined
731 2012-03-12 07:59:17 enquirer has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
732 2012-03-12 07:59:18 enquirer_ has quit (Excess Flood)
733 2012-03-12 07:59:29 enquirer_ has joined
734 2012-03-12 07:59:30 enquirer_ has quit (Excess Flood)
735 2012-03-12 07:59:40 enquirer_ has joined
736 2012-03-12 07:59:41 enquirer_ has quit (Excess Flood)
737 2012-03-12 07:59:50 enquirer_ has joined
738 2012-03-12 07:59:51 enquirer_ has quit (Excess Flood)
739 2012-03-12 08:00:01 enquirer_ has joined
740 2012-03-12 08:00:02 enquirer_ has quit (Excess Flood)
741 2012-03-12 08:00:12 enquirer_ has joined
742 2012-03-12 08:00:12 enquirer_ has quit (Excess Flood)
743 2012-03-12 08:00:22 enquirer_ has joined
744 2012-03-12 08:00:23 enquirer_ has quit (Excess Flood)
745 2012-03-12 08:00:34 enquirer_ has joined
746 2012-03-12 08:00:35 enquirer_ has quit (Excess Flood)
747 2012-03-12 08:00:46 enquirer_ has joined
748 2012-03-12 08:00:48 enquirer_ has quit (Excess Flood)
749 2012-03-12 08:00:58 enquirer_ has joined
750 2012-03-12 08:00:59 enquirer_ has quit (Excess Flood)
751 2012-03-12 08:08:44 T_X has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
752 2012-03-12 08:12:44 da2ce7 has joined
753 2012-03-12 08:15:24 T_X has joined
754 2012-03-12 08:15:24 T_X has quit (Changing host)
755 2012-03-12 08:15:24 T_X has joined
756 2012-03-12 08:26:03 z310 has joined
757 2012-03-12 08:28:19 Zarutian has joined
758 2012-03-12 08:29:21 enquirer has joined
759 2012-03-12 08:30:43 TD has joined
760 2012-03-12 08:33:22 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
761 2012-03-12 08:38:38 Joric has joined
762 2012-03-12 08:44:40 Joric has quit ()
763 2012-03-12 08:45:21 safra has joined
764 2012-03-12 08:46:48 da2ce7 has joined
765 2012-03-12 08:47:25 t7 has joined
766 2012-03-12 08:48:26 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
767 2012-03-12 08:50:28 safra has quit (Quit: Leaving)
768 2012-03-12 08:51:38 chrisb__ has joined
769 2012-03-12 08:53:44 ThomasV has joined
770 2012-03-12 09:01:39 <mcorlett> captain^k: Some nice stuff there. Thanks.
771 2012-03-12 09:02:25 fimpfimp has joined
772 2012-03-12 09:07:36 Sedra has joined
773 2012-03-12 09:08:54 Sedra- has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
774 2012-03-12 09:10:04 splatster has quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
775 2012-03-12 09:16:16 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
776 2012-03-12 09:18:55 cande has joined
777 2012-03-12 09:23:18 iocor has joined
778 2012-03-12 09:26:06 iocor has quit (Client Quit)
779 2012-03-12 09:26:25 iocor has joined
780 2012-03-12 09:26:29 <t7> can i still use the client as a daemon?
781 2012-03-12 09:26:36 <t7> qt client*
782 2012-03-12 09:33:42 da2ce7 has joined
783 2012-03-12 09:37:02 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
784 2012-03-12 09:40:42 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
785 2012-03-12 09:43:47 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
786 2012-03-12 09:45:31 <mcorlett> t7: Yes. server=1 in your bitcoin.conf, or pass -server (I believe).
787 2012-03-12 09:45:39 Joric has joined
788 2012-03-12 09:46:43 marf_away has joined
789 2012-03-12 09:49:04 Joric_ has joined
790 2012-03-12 09:49:04 Joric_ has quit (Changing host)
791 2012-03-12 09:49:04 Joric_ has joined
792 2012-03-12 09:50:10 da2ce7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
793 2012-03-12 09:50:35 <t7> can i show the balance for an address in the client?
794 2012-03-12 09:50:50 cande has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
795 2012-03-12 09:51:07 <t7> or account
796 2012-03-12 09:51:16 cande has joined
797 2012-03-12 09:51:20 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
798 2012-03-12 09:51:56 Joric_ is now known as Joric
799 2012-03-12 09:52:02 <t7> i have a mish mash of accounts
800 2012-03-12 09:53:38 pklaus has joined
801 2012-03-12 09:55:06 iocor has joined
802 2012-03-12 10:05:35 dvide has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
803 2012-03-12 10:05:48 dvide has joined
804 2012-03-12 10:06:19 agricocb has joined
805 2012-03-12 10:09:18 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
806 2012-03-12 10:11:37 safra has joined
807 2012-03-12 10:20:26 <Raccoon> is there any valid reason for removing the GUI option and display for mining?
808 2012-03-12 10:23:51 danbri has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
809 2012-03-12 10:24:53 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
810 2012-03-12 10:26:23 Joric_ has joined
811 2012-03-12 10:26:23 Joric_ has quit (Changing host)
812 2012-03-12 10:26:23 Joric_ has joined
813 2012-03-12 10:27:36 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
814 2012-03-12 10:34:05 Joric_ has quit ()
815 2012-03-12 10:36:16 pickett has joined
816 2012-03-12 10:42:58 safra has quit (Quit: Leaving)
817 2012-03-12 11:10:34 RazielZ has joined
818 2012-03-12 11:12:53 rtznprmpftl has joined
819 2012-03-12 11:15:04 JRWR has joined
820 2012-03-12 11:18:14 mrsy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
821 2012-03-12 11:18:35 mrsy has joined
822 2012-03-12 11:23:25 d4de has joined
823 2012-03-12 11:23:25 d4de has quit (Changing host)
824 2012-03-12 11:23:25 d4de has joined
825 2012-03-12 11:27:12 da2ce7 has joined
826 2012-03-12 11:36:08 sacarlson has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
827 2012-03-12 11:36:18 sacarlson has joined
828 2012-03-12 11:40:48 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
829 2012-03-12 11:40:56 da2ce7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
830 2012-03-12 11:43:52 <Graet> is there a 0.5.3 tag for bitcoin, I either need a GIT tag or commit number anyone?
831 2012-03-12 11:46:11 sacarlson has joined
832 2012-03-12 11:46:39 <Graet> for bip30
833 2012-03-12 11:47:25 <sipa> Graet: 0.5.3 will be released very soon
834 2012-03-12 11:47:53 <sipa> 0.5.3rc4 (with BIP30) was tagged yesterday
835 2012-03-12 11:48:05 <Graet> cheers sipa :)
836 2012-03-12 11:52:47 <yellowhat> on testnet: com.google.bitcoin.core.VerificationException: Unexpected change in difficulty at height 46722: 1d0fffff vs 1c2336a4
837 2012-03-12 11:52:57 <yellowhat> is this to be expected?
838 2012-03-12 11:54:08 <luke-jr> Graet: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=68339.0
839 2012-03-12 11:54:52 gfinn has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
840 2012-03-12 11:55:04 <sipa> yellowhat: 0.6 changed the difficulty rules for testnet
841 2012-03-12 11:55:29 <sipa> bitcoinj is not yet adapted, maybe
842 2012-03-12 11:55:29 <yellowhat> that rule seems not yet to be incorporated in bitcoinj 0.4
843 2012-03-12 11:56:51 <Graet> thnx luke-jr
844 2012-03-12 12:03:31 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
845 2012-03-12 12:04:15 molecular has joined
846 2012-03-12 12:06:40 gfinn has joined
847 2012-03-12 12:20:34 twmz has quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
848 2012-03-12 12:20:44 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
849 2012-03-12 12:21:56 archo47 has joined
850 2012-03-12 12:26:24 JRWR has quit (Quit: BTC Welcome: 19QtYzmENUmqRhvjEvHsz785rqZ5RRcZG4)
851 2012-03-12 12:26:52 <yellowhat> sipa: is there any documentation about the exact diffculty rules for testnet? or do i have to consult the bitcoin-qt code?
852 2012-03-12 12:27:50 <yellowhat> is this in main.cpp:798 ? by chance?
853 2012-03-12 12:28:19 <yellowhat> ah i think i got it: main.cpp: 830
854 2012-03-12 12:30:19 finway has joined
855 2012-03-12 12:30:45 <finway> Was [Tycho] or Artforz mining with ASIC ?
856 2012-03-12 12:31:00 <finway> There are lots of 1 txes blocks
857 2012-03-12 12:31:20 twmz has joined
858 2012-03-12 12:31:26 <Diablo-D3> artforz was
859 2012-03-12 12:31:31 <finway> Slow down the 1st confirms.
860 2012-03-12 12:31:48 <Diablo-D3> some pools just reject tx that dont have fees
861 2012-03-12 12:31:52 <finway> with 2T hashs/s ?
862 2012-03-12 12:32:19 <finway> No,that's not some pools rejecting no fee txes.
863 2012-03-12 12:32:59 <finway> My tx has fee, but was ignored by block : 170811 170812 170813 170814
864 2012-03-12 12:33:09 <finway> That sucks.
865 2012-03-12 12:34:44 <finway> There are 19 1_tx_blocks in 86 blocks today, which means there're 2.4T hashs/s ASIC miner ?
866 2012-03-12 12:35:03 <finway> Seems they're growing.
867 2012-03-12 12:35:28 <finway> Look at block 170810-170814
868 2012-03-12 12:36:08 Joric has joined
869 2012-03-12 12:39:43 Flargles_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
870 2012-03-12 12:42:48 minimoose has joined
871 2012-03-12 12:44:23 Joric_ has joined
872 2012-03-12 12:44:23 Joric_ has quit (Changing host)
873 2012-03-12 12:44:23 Joric_ has joined
874 2012-03-12 12:45:02 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
875 2012-03-12 12:45:06 Joric_ is now known as Joric
876 2012-03-12 12:46:30 <finway> We are under attack...
877 2012-03-12 12:47:36 <Joric> surrender all your base are belong to us
878 2012-03-12 12:49:33 <finway> Joric, are you the secret 1_tx_block_miner ?
879 2012-03-12 12:50:25 <Joric> even if i was... no!
880 2012-03-12 12:50:34 danbri has joined
881 2012-03-12 12:51:48 agricocb has joined
882 2012-03-12 12:52:55 Joric_ has joined
883 2012-03-12 12:53:04 Joric_ has quit (Changing host)
884 2012-03-12 12:53:04 Joric_ has joined
885 2012-03-12 12:55:05 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
886 2012-03-12 12:58:26 slush1 has joined
887 2012-03-12 12:59:54 TD has joined
888 2012-03-12 13:01:06 smtmnyz_ is now known as smtmnyz
889 2012-03-12 13:01:39 <Graet> sipa, ozcoin is patched up, would you like email as well?
890 2012-03-12 13:03:41 Joric_ is now known as Joric
891 2012-03-12 13:09:50 Hunterbunter has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
892 2012-03-12 13:13:43 <finway> If 1_tx_blocks passes 50% hashrate, we'll never get to P2SH
893 2012-03-12 13:13:53 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
894 2012-03-12 13:14:21 <finway> Obviously, they don't upgrade.
895 2012-03-12 13:14:40 <Joric> finway, here http://goo.gl/v3vaB
896 2012-03-12 13:14:45 <Joric> i fucking love charts
897 2012-03-12 13:14:53 <Joric> this one took 5 minutes
898 2012-03-12 13:16:08 <finway> Joric, they exist all along ?
899 2012-03-12 13:16:26 <sipa> Graet: great! it's ok
900 2012-03-12 13:16:41 <Graet> :D
901 2012-03-12 13:18:41 <finway> Joric, thanks.
902 2012-03-12 13:19:25 iocor has joined
903 2012-03-12 13:20:00 has quit (Clown|!Clown@static-87-79-93-140.netcologne.de|Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
904 2012-03-12 13:22:15 datagutt has joined
905 2012-03-12 13:22:24 datagutt has quit (Changing host)
906 2012-03-12 13:22:25 datagutt has joined
907 2012-03-12 13:23:08 booo has joined
908 2012-03-12 13:23:46 paraipan has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
909 2012-03-12 13:24:16 <finway> Joric, seems you didn't stat March
910 2012-03-12 13:25:25 <finway> There are approximately 30 1_tx_blocks everyday, so the number must be 1000 per month or 400 in march till now.
911 2012-03-12 13:26:41 <sipa> t7: i knew i recognized your nick from somewhere when i saw you in #haskell :)
912 2012-03-12 13:26:56 <t7> i used to be erus`
913 2012-03-12 13:27:03 <t7> on haskell
914 2012-03-12 13:27:11 <sipa> ah, i see
915 2012-03-12 13:28:26 <sipa> ;;calc 30/144
916 2012-03-12 13:28:26 <gribble> 0.208333333333
917 2012-03-12 13:29:24 <finway> sipa, i think that's dangerous.
918 2012-03-12 13:29:53 <finway> unkown pool mining 1_tx_blocks with 20% of hashing power, and they are growing.
919 2012-03-12 13:30:32 <t7> conspiracy theory time
920 2012-03-12 13:30:43 <gmaxwell> I'm going start mining 1tx blocks just because watching finway panic is fun.
921 2012-03-12 13:30:49 slush1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
922 2012-03-12 13:31:16 paraipan has joined
923 2012-03-12 13:31:25 <Graet> i'm going to reduce free txn space and profit off all you that dont include txn :P
924 2012-03-12 13:31:37 <sipa> slush just updated his pool to BIP30
925 2012-03-12 13:31:37 <finway> t7: I hope after Joric finish his chart with the number of March, you'll still consider it's still a conspiracy.
926 2012-03-12 13:32:05 <finway> gmaxwell, can you calculate how much 1_tx_blocks in March ?
927 2012-03-12 13:32:21 <gmaxwell> finway: There may be an issueâ but that doesn't justify the unsound reasoning. Measure first, panic ater.
928 2012-03-12 13:32:28 <gmaxwell> s/ater/later/
929 2012-03-12 13:32:38 <finway> There about 100 1_tx_blocks in Feb,Jan,Dec,Nov,Oct
930 2012-03-12 13:33:00 <finway> There will be more than 500 in Mar
931 2012-03-12 13:33:18 <sipa> ok, do
932 2012-03-12 13:33:35 <finway> Maybe 1000
933 2012-03-12 13:33:35 <sipa> ok, so we have a botnet
934 2012-03-12 13:34:20 <finway> They will never include txes, and they will unlikely upgrade too, neither BIP16 nor BIP30
935 2012-03-12 13:34:23 <gmaxwell> So we we go by the botnet theory, â where it's profitable to not mine txn because storing them is noticable or requires a centeral point then there are a couple things we can do.
936 2012-03-12 13:34:34 <gmaxwell> finway: they don't need to upgrade.
937 2012-03-12 13:34:58 <gmaxwell> BIP16 means fairly little to a node that doesn't mine txn except it may get stuck on a fork.
938 2012-03-12 13:35:01 <finway> gmaxwell, you're right, they don't include txes.
939 2012-03-12 13:35:40 <finway> Do they care BIP30 ?
940 2012-03-12 13:35:59 <sipa> no
941 2012-03-12 13:36:14 <gmaxwell> For example, we could require the coinbase include a value that depends on the set of open txn. (e.g. h(prev) tells you which open txn to hash) Then you can't mine without access to the transactions.
942 2012-03-12 13:37:02 <gmaxwell> But .. that really only inhibits a very narrow class of antisocial minerâ I'd want to really know such a thing existed before expecting that.
943 2012-03-12 13:37:19 BiTn00b has joined
944 2012-03-12 13:37:47 <gmaxwell> We could also make it easier to include txnâ by exposing a getmemorypool like call from every node.
945 2012-03-12 13:38:09 <gmaxwell> Then a botnet miner could just pick random nodes to getmemorypool, and provide their own coinbase.
946 2012-03-12 13:39:05 <sturles> Have any of the coins from those 1 tx blocks been spent?
947 2012-03-12 13:39:15 <gmaxwell> sturles: "those"
948 2012-03-12 13:39:27 <gmaxwell> As if you can really tell whos is whos..
949 2012-03-12 13:40:11 <sturles> You can't be certain, but let's say any 1 tx block found at least three minutes after the previous block. It is very unlikely to be without txs.
950 2012-03-12 13:40:15 <gmaxwell> (The ideas could be combined such that H(prev+txn_I'm_including) tells you the open txn to hashâ so a botnet getmemorypooling nodes would have to include all the txn in order to benefit from using their database)
951 2012-03-12 13:40:19 <finway> sturles, unlikely
952 2012-03-12 13:40:35 <sturles> Yes.
953 2012-03-12 13:40:56 <finway> gmaxwell, only if the botnet's hashpower is lower than the supporting pool of this kind of change.
954 2012-03-12 13:41:13 <gmaxwell> finway: No, thats not relevant.
955 2012-03-12 13:41:22 <gmaxwell> I'm talking about protocol rues.
956 2012-03-12 13:41:31 <gmaxwell> Okay, my L key seems to be failing.
957 2012-03-12 13:41:37 <BiTn00b> can I submit a patch to force every client to send me all their bitcoin?
958 2012-03-12 13:41:38 <gmaxwell> or I'm turning chinese.
959 2012-03-12 13:41:53 <finway> haha
960 2012-03-12 13:41:59 <gmaxwell> BiTn00b: sure. It won't be accepted, but you can submit anything you want.
961 2012-03-12 13:42:00 <Joric> finway, added march http://goo.gl/MYAZb
962 2012-03-12 13:42:19 <BiTn00b> bummer... guess I'll have to figure out something more productive to do with my time
963 2012-03-12 13:42:30 <t7> BiTn00b: good luck dude, these guys hate change
964 2012-03-12 13:42:36 <finway> Joric, that's lower than i thought, but still rising. thanks.
965 2012-03-12 13:42:37 <gmaxwell> Joric: I'm not seeing anything there to cause panic.
966 2012-03-12 13:42:42 <Joric> 2012-03-01 to 2012-03-12 -> 151 1-tx blocks
967 2012-03-12 13:43:17 <Joric> everybody panic now
968 2012-03-12 13:43:32 <sipa> waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
969 2012-03-12 13:43:36 <sipa> done
970 2012-03-12 13:43:45 <finway> gmaxwell, it's 12 March, and there are more 1-tx blocks than whole Feb.
971 2012-03-12 13:43:55 <sipa> yes, so?
972 2012-03-12 13:44:15 <sipa> there is probably a botnet
973 2012-03-12 13:44:39 <sipa> i'll worry when it gets close to 50%
974 2012-03-12 13:44:46 <finway> Because it takes me merely one hour to get my first confirm, because block 170810-170814 ignore my txes.
975 2012-03-12 13:45:02 <sturles> 5 blocks in a row is a nice demonstration of power.
976 2012-03-12 13:45:22 <Joric> finway, detailed stats http://pastebin.com/aHQ5RKE1
977 2012-03-12 13:45:43 <Joric> probably would be 300 to the end of month
978 2012-03-12 13:46:07 <finway> Joric, can you make it 1 day ?
979 2012-03-12 13:46:13 <finway> only in 2012
980 2012-03-12 13:46:28 <Joric> i'll try
981 2012-03-12 13:46:45 <finway> maybe fee days ago.
982 2012-03-12 13:48:35 has joined
983 2012-03-12 13:49:20 JRWR has joined
984 2012-03-12 13:50:08 finway_ has joined
985 2012-03-12 13:50:37 <Joric> damn, i only implemented 1-month period so far it may take a while
986 2012-03-12 13:50:51 finway has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
987 2012-03-12 13:51:29 <finway_> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67634.0 This thread started on 6 March.
988 2012-03-12 13:52:10 <BiTn00b> does every client see every transaction, or only after its in a block?
989 2012-03-12 13:52:58 <finway_> in theory, only if mining pool don't hold fee txes.
990 2012-03-12 13:53:58 <Graet> http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2012/03/12/brainwallet-the-ultimate-in-mobile-money/
991 2012-03-12 13:54:26 peter345978 has left ()
992 2012-03-12 13:55:12 <BiTn00b> I see how a pool could refuse to propagate, but how could any one pool prevent other clients from propagating?
993 2012-03-12 13:55:57 <gmaxwell> finway: note that the change in rate happened at the same time the blockchain.info claims that deepbit was the sourceâ perhaps deepbit broke something.
994 2012-03-12 13:56:17 <gmaxwell> BiTn00b: they can't.
995 2012-03-12 13:56:27 <gmaxwell> BiTn00b: nor can they prevent the origin from telling many people.
996 2012-03-12 13:56:28 <helo> BiTn00b: btw, bitcoin nodes have no concept of clients, only transactions
997 2012-03-12 13:57:37 <gmaxwell> finway_: With respect to more-1tx-blocks todayâ you were sounding alarm bells about 1txn blocks days agoâ even though the graph from Joric shows its not abnormal. Have you ever heard the story of Chicken Little?
998 2012-03-12 13:59:14 <helo> regarding 'brainwallet'... when will type 2 determinstic wallets be in the reference client?
999 2012-03-12 13:59:31 <finway_> gmaxwell: no
1000 2012-03-12 13:59:43 <sipa> helo: i hope in 0.7.0
1001 2012-03-12 14:00:11 <finway_> There are more than 100 in 6 days, definitely abnormal.
1002 2012-03-12 14:00:17 <Joric> finway_, http://pastebin.com/aHQ5RKE1 detailed stats for 2012
1003 2012-03-12 14:00:59 <finway_> Joric, thanks, see, that's abnormal.
1004 2012-03-12 14:02:30 <finway_> According to BTCguild, The botnet will finally kill bitcoin.
1005 2012-03-12 14:02:35 <finway_> :(
1006 2012-03-12 14:02:50 <finway_> with their 1_tx_blocks.
1007 2012-03-12 14:03:14 <gmaxwell> What does "According to BTCguild" mean?
1008 2012-03-12 14:03:34 <sturles> finway_: They would need >> 50% for that.
1009 2012-03-12 14:03:42 <finway_> Who's that guy runing BTCguild.
1010 2012-03-12 14:03:42 <helo> the botnet just adds more confirmation to previous blocks. it doesn't have any kind of negative impact on anything...
1011 2012-03-12 14:03:44 <sturles> finway_: >> 50% of the total hashpower.
1012 2012-03-12 14:04:00 <sturles> finway_: Sustained. To deny transactions.
1013 2012-03-12 14:04:43 <sturles> So far it only slows down transactions. Or will when difficulty is increased due to higher hashrate.
1014 2012-03-12 14:05:11 <finway_> As the hashing power grows, it will make bitcoin network unusable.
1015 2012-03-12 14:05:32 <helo> that wouldn't be in the botnet owner's best interest
1016 2012-03-12 14:05:39 <finway_> Waiting for 1 confirm will be the pain in the ass.
1017 2012-03-12 14:06:24 <finway_> Bitcoin will be called SLOWcoin.
1018 2012-03-12 14:06:53 <Joric> heard solidcoin is 4 times faster
1019 2012-03-12 14:07:03 <Joric> turn all your worthless bitcoins into solidcoins
1020 2012-03-12 14:07:12 <sturles> Eligius is already doing that for no-fee transactions. It refuses to include them, unless it is a non-standard transaction from MtGox destroying coins.
1021 2012-03-12 14:07:58 <finway_> sturles, that's different, BOTNET fefuse all txes.
1022 2012-03-12 14:08:08 <gmaxwell> finway_: you don't know that it refuses all transactions.
1023 2012-03-12 14:08:13 <finway_> s/fefuse/refuse/
1024 2012-03-12 14:08:24 <sturles> I know. But not much different. I can't control the fee if I send from an exchange.
1025 2012-03-12 14:08:31 <finway_> gmaxwell, that will be obvious.
1026 2012-03-12 14:09:01 <Eliel> sturles: if the fee ends up being important for the speed, I'm quite sure the option will appear.
1027 2012-03-12 14:09:09 <finway_> See this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67634.msg787044#msg787044
1028 2012-03-12 14:09:36 Clipse has joined
1029 2012-03-12 14:09:44 <finway_> This https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67634.msg787062#msg787062
1030 2012-03-12 14:09:53 <helo> any reason to believe it is a botnet versus something else?
1031 2012-03-12 14:09:58 <finway_> And this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67634.msg787414#msg787414
1032 2012-03-12 14:10:15 <finway_> Oh, Clipse's here, he started the thread.
1033 2012-03-12 14:10:20 <sturles> helo: Behavior makes sense for a botnet. Not for much else.
1034 2012-03-12 14:10:49 <helo> the key is to find how the bots are getting the last block hash
1035 2012-03-12 14:10:54 <finway_> sturles, the question is why? now ?
1036 2012-03-12 14:11:25 <helo> i guess they could always be updated to get it from other sources, if their current source is broken
1037 2012-03-12 14:11:26 <sturles> finway_: I don't now, I don't have anything to do with it. :-)
1038 2012-03-12 14:11:38 <finway_> The mining code is old, and the botnet is old,
1039 2012-03-12 14:11:57 * sturles thinks one should follow the coins produced.
1040 2012-03-12 14:15:17 libcoin has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1041 2012-03-12 14:15:51 <finway_> maybe [Tycho] can find out who's this secret miner.
1042 2012-03-12 14:16:01 <finway_> s/miner/BOTNET/
1043 2012-03-12 14:16:13 <finway_> ;;seen [Tycho]
1044 2012-03-12 14:16:14 <gribble> Error: "Tycho" is not a valid command.
1045 2012-03-12 14:18:29 denisx has joined
1046 2012-03-12 14:21:01 <Joric> finway_, here, i made it as scary as possible http://goo.gl/IkYjZ your pleasure
1047 2012-03-12 14:21:10 <Joric> use it freely
1048 2012-03-12 14:21:32 <gmaxwell> Joric: did you make sure to set the minimum y to something other than 0?
1049 2012-03-12 14:21:48 <Joric> why
1050 2012-03-12 14:21:58 <Joric> i started from 0
1051 2012-03-12 14:22:06 <finway_> Joric, that's scary.
1052 2012-03-12 14:22:16 <gmaxwell> Aww, ecause doing so would further exagerate any change. :) You said you were trying to be maximally scarry.
1053 2012-03-12 14:22:19 cande has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1054 2012-03-12 14:22:58 <sturles> Joric: You certainly know how to abuse statistics, but you could make the Y axis logarithmic for extra credit. :-)
1055 2012-03-12 14:23:24 <luke-jr> perhaps we need a way to ensure miners are full nodes?
1056 2012-03-12 14:23:39 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: you mean this? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=68396
1057 2012-03-12 14:24:44 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: having the last block doesn't guarantee a full node
1058 2012-03-12 14:25:14 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: see the last sentence of my message
1059 2012-03-12 14:25:54 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: you could use the prev_hash to randomly select a (couple) txn to hash. But thats not required to break the botnet misbehavior.
1060 2012-03-12 14:26:24 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I'm thinking into the future
1061 2012-03-12 14:26:25 <Joric> finway_, note how it pulses in the end, the next peak would be 50 1-tx blocks a day, then probably 100
1062 2012-03-12 14:26:41 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: a botnet could easily track the last valid block, just as well as this tracks its hash'
1063 2012-03-12 14:26:44 <finway_> Joric, could be
1064 2012-03-12 14:27:04 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: "track the last valid block" ?
1065 2012-03-12 14:27:17 <finway_> strangulation attack.
1066 2012-03-12 14:27:19 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: have its nodes grab the last block just for this info
1067 2012-03-12 14:27:19 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: this requires hashing the _inputs_ which will be old txn.
1068 2012-03-12 14:27:25 <luke-jr> oh
1069 2012-03-12 14:27:30 <luke-jr> right, I see
1070 2012-03-12 14:27:42 <BiTn00b> luke, can I have your coding skills so I can contribute too?
1071 2012-03-12 14:27:49 <luke-jr> BiTn00b: �
1072 2012-03-12 14:28:01 <finway_> I think once we confirm that attack, we should make them illegal asap.
1073 2012-03-12 14:28:06 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: yea, I agree a random open txn would be better proof, but I'm concerned that it would make assumptions about how txn are stored that we don't want.
1074 2012-03-12 14:28:11 <BiTn00b> lolz... nm, I'm just bored =D
1075 2012-03-12 14:28:14 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: unfortunately, I'm biased against it, since Eligius manifests the same kind of behaviour for longpolls <.<
1076 2012-03-12 14:28:56 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: nah, this shouldn't be a problem for that.
1077 2012-03-12 14:29:00 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: no?
1078 2012-03-12 14:29:23 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: what I mean is, I precalculate a bunch of blank merkleroots to immediately let loose when I see a new block
1079 2012-03-12 14:29:29 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: oh, darn I dropped that partâ I initially wrote the message saying the block before last.
1080 2012-03-12 14:29:37 <luke-jr> ah
1081 2012-03-12 14:29:43 <luke-jr> block before last would work
1082 2012-03-12 14:29:47 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: but I didn't think it was required anymore if you weren't doing the random txn thing.
1083 2012-03-12 14:29:51 fimpfimp has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1084 2012-03-12 14:30:13 <gmaxwell> (I'd initially written block before last to give you time to find random txnâ you shouldn't need time here because you should validate the prior before extending it...)
1085 2012-03-12 14:30:42 <gmaxwell> But I guess I see your point.
1086 2012-03-12 14:32:12 <gmaxwell> I think from a rule perspective we don't want people mining on top of blocks they have not validate, so I'm perhaps not inclined to fix that in the proposal.
1087 2012-03-12 14:32:20 <gmaxwell> er have not validated.
1088 2012-03-12 14:32:37 <finway_> luke-jr: block before last would work --what happens when a reorg happens?
1089 2012-03-12 14:32:41 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: well, the ones I mentioned are validated. :p
1090 2012-03-12 14:32:52 <luke-jr> finway_: reorg doesn't change much here
1091 2012-03-12 14:33:05 <luke-jr> finway_: you can't lose the block-before-last without losing all the blocks built on it anyway
1092 2012-03-12 14:33:14 TD has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1093 2012-03-12 14:33:53 fimpfimp has joined
1094 2012-03-12 14:33:55 TD has joined
1095 2012-03-12 14:33:56 <finway_> Devs, kill the botnet, save bitcoin.
1096 2012-03-12 14:33:58 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: the difference is, in addition to validating the block, you have you make the merkleroots before mining on it
1097 2012-03-12 14:34:29 <luke-jr> finway_: I'm actually not too worried about it at its current size, though I think addressing it would help.
1098 2012-03-12 14:34:37 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: which should be so much cheaper than validating the block that it isn't funny.
1099 2012-03-12 14:34:45 <luke-jr> otoh, if it grows, killing it means a hardforkâ¦
1100 2012-03-12 14:34:49 <finway_> luke-jr: it's growing.
1101 2012-03-12 14:34:56 <luke-jr> so maybe we should start writing code for that forced hardfork
1102 2012-03-12 14:35:54 <finway_> luke-jr: considering there're only 30k*5850 legit mining power., BOTNET are much bigger,
1103 2012-03-12 14:36:07 fimpfimp has quit (Client Quit)
1104 2012-03-12 14:36:13 <finway_> Once they abuse GPU
1105 2012-03-12 14:36:32 <luke-jr> hmm
1106 2012-03-12 14:36:47 <denisx> the botnet hitting me has way over 100k nodes
1107 2012-03-12 14:36:55 <luke-jr> is there a way to detect its blocks?
1108 2012-03-12 14:37:18 <BiTn00b> regarding a hard fork, is there a testnet with hardfork features being developed and tested so they're ready to go when it's time to pull the trigger?
1109 2012-03-12 14:37:26 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: nah, the thing I proposed is not a hardfork, it can have the same deployment plan we talked about for the height.
1110 2012-03-12 14:37:37 <gmaxwell> BiTn00b: No. There are no hardfork features.
1111 2012-03-12 14:37:40 <luke-jr> maybe we should consider slowing it down with a 50% "attack", have pools block its slaves so long as they're using pools⦠to buy time
1112 2012-03-12 14:37:54 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: stop.
1113 2012-03-12 14:37:56 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: but if the botnet will eventually surpass 50%, we need to plan for a hardfork
1114 2012-03-12 14:38:02 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: you're letting chicken little panic you.
1115 2012-03-12 14:38:12 da2ce7 has joined
1116 2012-03-12 14:38:16 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: maybe ;)
1117 2012-03-12 14:38:32 ferroh has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1118 2012-03-12 14:38:40 <gmaxwell> at most your 1txn mystery miner is 16% of the hashrate.
1119 2012-03-12 14:38:47 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: right now, yes
1120 2012-03-12 14:39:09 <BiTn00b> hmm, the wiki page is unofficial then?
1121 2012-03-12 14:39:14 <gmaxwell> You have no data to expect it to become any greater.
1122 2012-03-12 14:39:24 <luke-jr> BiTn00b: Bitcoin is decentralized. EVERYTHING is unofficial.
1123 2012-03-12 14:40:12 <gmaxwell> BiTn00b: More importantly than 'official', none of that stuff is backed by anything but wishes, there is no codeâ and some of it may be crap that sane people would hate if they looked at it.
1124 2012-03-12 14:40:19 <BiTn00b> can't disagree with that. I was thinkign in a smaller context
1125 2012-03-12 14:40:29 <finway_> Can [Tycho] confirm the BOTNET thing?
1126 2012-03-12 14:40:39 <finway_> Or some secret ASIC miner.
1127 2012-03-12 14:40:41 <luke-jr> finway_: how could he possibly do that?
1128 2012-03-12 14:43:46 <finway_> luke-jr, the BOTNET/ASIC MINER likes to pass blocks to him.
1129 2012-03-12 14:43:51 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: he's the current origin of these blocks according to blockchain.info
1130 2012-03-12 14:44:02 <finway_> So blockchain identify these blocks "Deepbit"
1131 2012-03-12 14:44:08 <luke-jr> o
1132 2012-03-12 14:44:18 <luke-jr> I thought it was all some Swedish IP?
1133 2012-03-12 14:44:39 <helo> spain at one point
1134 2012-03-12 14:44:49 <finway_> spain , once.
1135 2012-03-12 14:45:25 SomeoneWeird is now known as SomeoneWeirdzzzz
1136 2012-03-12 14:45:57 <denisx> sipa: you did the new networking code for 0.6?
1137 2012-03-12 14:46:29 <sipa> denisx: most of it, yes
1138 2012-03-12 14:46:39 <DrHaribo> I don't think they are identified as Deepbit right now. Deepbit is looking like just 20% hash power.
1139 2012-03-12 14:47:02 <denisx> sipa: when I try to compile HEAD on my freebsd machine I need to add #include <netinet/in.h> to net base.cpp
1140 2012-03-12 14:47:35 <sipa> which #ifdef is needed around it?
1141 2012-03-12 14:47:44 <sipa> (feel free to submit a pull request)
1142 2012-03-12 14:48:02 <finway_> DrHaribo, see block 170830, 170810- 170814
1143 2012-03-12 14:48:37 <denisx> sipa: #ifdef __FreeBSD__
1144 2012-03-12 14:49:16 <sipa> #ifdef BSD
1145 2012-03-12 14:49:16 <sipa> #include <netinet/in.h>
1146 2012-03-12 14:49:17 <sipa> #endif
1147 2012-03-12 14:49:21 <sipa> that doesn't work?
1148 2012-03-12 14:49:46 <sipa> (from netbase.h)
1149 2012-03-12 14:50:12 <denisx> no
1150 2012-03-12 14:51:10 gavinandresen has joined
1151 2012-03-12 14:52:27 <denisx> BSD and FREEBSD does not work, it needs to be FreeBSD
1152 2012-03-12 14:54:42 finway_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1153 2012-03-12 14:54:59 <denisx> but I can't speak for the other BSDs
1154 2012-03-12 14:55:35 <sipa> i think we can do without the ifdef entirely
1155 2012-03-12 14:55:52 <sipa> if it's moved into the section for the other unices
1156 2012-03-12 14:56:25 BGL has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1157 2012-03-12 14:57:29 vragnaroda has joined
1158 2012-03-12 15:00:32 Turingi has joined
1159 2012-03-12 15:01:06 finway has joined
1160 2012-03-12 15:01:42 <finway> luke-jr, did you just mined 170836 ? It's 1_tx and marked "Eligius" by blockchain.info
1161 2012-03-12 15:01:51 <finway> :P
1162 2012-03-12 15:02:36 <denisx> blockchain can not see where the block comes from, it only sees who relays it
1163 2012-03-12 15:03:17 <luke-jr> finway: http://eligius.st/~artefact2/
1164 2012-03-12 15:03:47 <finway> luke-jr: ok, it's not.
1165 2012-03-12 15:04:33 <Graet> oohh maybe its p2poool
1166 2012-03-12 15:04:36 * Graet runs away
1167 2012-03-12 15:04:46 <sipa> ;;bc,calc 11500000*0.16/800
1168 2012-03-12 15:04:47 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 11500000*0.16/800 Khps, given current difficulty of 1496978.5950256 , is 88 years, 33 weeks, 3 days, 10 hours, 32 minutes, and 5 seconds
1169 2012-03-12 15:04:51 <sipa> ;;calc 11500000*0.16/800
1170 2012-03-12 15:04:51 <gribble> 2300
1171 2012-03-12 15:05:18 <finway> I remeber someone release an article says that botnet will kill bitcoin, don't remeber who.
1172 2012-03-12 15:05:33 <luke-jr> BTCGuild?
1173 2012-03-12 15:05:52 <finway> a paper, pdf
1174 2012-03-12 15:06:10 <Diablo-D3> heh
1175 2012-03-12 15:06:14 <Diablo-D3> not only did it not kill botnet
1176 2012-03-12 15:06:15 <Diablo-D3> er
1177 2012-03-12 15:06:17 <lianj> seems legit then
1178 2012-03-12 15:06:18 <Diablo-D3> not only did it not kill bitcoin
1179 2012-03-12 15:06:23 <Diablo-D3> but it helped its growth
1180 2012-03-12 15:06:54 <luke-jr> finway: good thing FPGAs are around then
1181 2012-03-12 15:07:19 <finway> luke-jr: the price are too low, and the FPGA are too expensive.
1182 2012-03-12 15:07:36 <finway> luke-jr, it's not cost-effective.
1183 2012-03-12 15:07:39 <luke-jr> finway: FPGA do better than GPUs at low price
1184 2012-03-12 15:08:26 <finway> luke-jr, but low price doesn't cover the FPGA investment.
1185 2012-03-12 15:08:51 <luke-jr> finway: it did before the botnet :P
1186 2012-03-12 15:09:13 sje has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1187 2012-03-12 15:10:23 <finway> Can someone check the 1_tx_blocks coins, are they spent ?
1188 2012-03-12 15:10:43 <finway> 150 blocks, about 7500 coins.
1189 2012-03-12 15:10:48 <finway> in March.
1190 2012-03-12 15:12:46 <finway> About 1000 conis per day, sounds like Artforz.
1191 2012-03-12 15:12:52 <finway> :P
1192 2012-03-12 15:12:54 <DrHaribo> Maybe it's the Fed stocking up on bitcoin in case the US dollar crashes. :P
1193 2012-03-12 15:13:20 <finway> DrHaribo, you wish, maybe it's JP Morgan.
1194 2012-03-12 15:13:48 merde has quit ()
1195 2012-03-12 15:13:51 <finway> It says JP Morgan has got an FPGA supercomputer
1196 2012-03-12 15:14:33 <finway> Maybe it's just an ASIC miner, it's too expensive to include txes, so they just don't.
1197 2012-03-12 15:14:51 <gmaxwell> finway: It's not expensive to include transactions.
1198 2012-03-12 15:15:07 <DrHaribo> None of the 150 blocks have transactions?
1199 2012-03-12 15:15:17 <finway> DrHaribo, none.
1200 2012-03-12 15:15:45 <finway> gmaxwell, they're not ? in circuit ?
1201 2012-03-12 15:15:49 <finway> in ASIC circuit.
1202 2012-03-12 15:16:01 <finway> plug-and-miner ASIC miner circuit.
1203 2012-03-12 15:16:30 <denisx> if they put transaction logic in an ASIC they are dumb
1204 2012-03-12 15:16:31 <gmaxwell> finway: No, including transactions has absolutely nothing to do with an ASIC mining circuit.
1205 2012-03-12 15:16:33 <finway> Maybe they just don't want to bother BIP16 or anything else.
1206 2012-03-12 15:16:51 <luke-jr> â¦
1207 2012-03-12 15:17:03 <luke-jr> finway: you're making ridiculous arguments.
1208 2012-03-12 15:17:18 <finway> luke-jr, ok, maybe they are botnet.
1209 2012-03-12 15:17:32 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: You just noticed?
1210 2012-03-12 15:17:49 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: no, I just felt I should put it bluntly to him so he doesn't waste his time more :p
1211 2012-03-12 15:17:50 <finway> ok, let's see if they are growing.
1212 2012-03-12 15:18:28 <DrHaribo> Anything interesting in the coinbases?
1213 2012-03-12 15:19:05 <luke-jr> DrHaribo: looks like old-style
1214 2012-03-12 15:19:30 <gavinandresen> sipa gmaxwell: Where are we on a 0.6rc3 ? Any major bugs that need to get fixed before spinning a release?
1215 2012-03-12 15:21:25 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: any harm in merging that wallet debug pull I recently sent?
1216 2012-03-12 15:22:55 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: did you fix the linebreaks I commented on?
1217 2012-03-12 15:23:19 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I didn't see an issue.
1218 2012-03-12 15:23:21 <gavinandresen> Looking at issues: 930 (limit impact of reorganizations) looks like the only critical issue
1219 2012-03-12 15:23:57 wasabi has joined
1220 2012-03-12 15:26:37 <gmaxwell> Sipa has asked me to look at that pull, but I didn't have any luck in reproducing the issue in order to test it.
1221 2012-03-12 15:26:46 <gmaxwell> I do think it needs to go in though.
1222 2012-03-12 15:27:38 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: what are the download goals for renaming 0.5.3rc4 to final? BIP30 "needs" no later than the 14th
1223 2012-03-12 15:28:28 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: as much testing as possible between now and then
1224 2012-03-12 15:29:04 <gavinandresen> at least a sanity-test ACK "I downloaded and ran and it worked" for each download
1225 2012-03-12 15:29:18 <luke-jr> k
1226 2012-03-12 15:32:45 <[imsaguy]> Is this still true? "You can use any arbitrary IP addresses with MapAddress, though some of the common non-routable ranges (10.*, 192.168.*) will not work due to a Bitcoin bug (reference?). 192.0.2.1-192.0.2.255 is the recommended range because it is both non-routable and compatible with Bitcoin."
1227 2012-03-12 15:33:07 <luke-jr> [imsaguy]: huh?
1228 2012-03-12 15:33:36 <[imsaguy]> Its listed on the Fallback_Nodes page in the wiki that those address ranges should be avoided
1229 2012-03-12 15:34:24 <Joric> a better chart, bars instead of lines http://goo.gl/kRYYP )
1230 2012-03-12 15:42:48 Habbie has quit (Quit: updates)
1231 2012-03-12 15:44:05 Habbie has joined
1232 2012-03-12 15:48:01 dvide has quit ()
1233 2012-03-12 15:53:48 JRWR has quit (Quit: BTC Welcome: 19QtYzmENUmqRhvjEvHsz785rqZ5RRcZG4)
1234 2012-03-12 15:54:16 <Diablo-D3> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMxTKoCW_9g&feature=youtu.be
1235 2012-03-12 15:56:07 <denisx> how can I see with the new getblock API call if this block is orphaned or not?
1236 2012-03-12 16:02:01 JRWR has joined
1237 2012-03-12 16:04:35 finway has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1238 2012-03-12 16:06:47 <gavinandresen> denisx: get it's height then ask for the block hash at that height using ... whatver that other rpc call is....
1239 2012-03-12 16:09:33 <gavinandresen> denisx: yeah, that's it-- getblock <hash> and then getblockhash <height> and if the hashes match then the block is in the best chain at the time the getblockhash call ran
1240 2012-03-12 16:09:51 <denisx> gavinandresen: ok, thanks
1241 2012-03-12 16:11:41 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Easy as 3.14159265358979323846...)
1242 2012-03-12 16:11:59 <[Tycho]> Is there something wrong with the bitcoin forum ?
1243 2012-03-12 16:12:25 <gavinandresen> [Tycho]: too many trolls?
1244 2012-03-12 16:12:37 <Graet> been timing out for me [Tycho]
1245 2012-03-12 16:12:47 <gavinandresen> oh, THAT kind of wrong
1246 2012-03-12 16:12:48 <[Tycho]> Graet: same here
1247 2012-03-12 16:13:01 libcoin has joined
1248 2012-03-12 16:13:08 <gavinandresen> yes, timing out for me too
1249 2012-03-12 16:14:43 <Graet> lol gavinandresen
1250 2012-03-12 16:16:02 <nanotube> haha
1251 2012-03-12 16:16:13 <[Tycho]> In the last hour my non-bip16 nodes found 6 blocks, but bip-16 ones found none. Looks like bip16 really brings bad luck.
1252 2012-03-12 16:17:45 <Graet> ty [Tycho] i'll use that excuse for our recnt run of luck lmao :P
1253 2012-03-12 16:19:29 erle- has joined
1254 2012-03-12 16:19:53 finway has joined
1255 2012-03-12 16:20:14 Zarutian has joined
1256 2012-03-12 16:20:30 <finway> [Tycho], did you mined a lot 1_tx blocks ?
1257 2012-03-12 16:20:40 <finway> :P
1258 2012-03-12 16:21:03 Tuxavant has quit (Quit: Disconnecting from stoned server.)
1259 2012-03-12 16:21:15 <[Tycho]> In my spanish DC ? No, it wasn't me.
1260 2012-03-12 16:21:19 Tuxavant has joined
1261 2012-03-12 16:21:45 <finway> [Tycho], seems they like you
1262 2012-03-12 16:21:46 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: there are now a bunch being emitted by your normal nodes according to blockchain.info.
1263 2012-03-12 16:22:23 <gmaxwell> And finway has been spazzing out about it all morning.
1264 2012-03-12 16:22:54 <Graet> morning?, last 24 hours i thought :P
1265 2012-03-12 16:22:57 <finway> gmaxwell, it's there about one week, you can't blame me.
1266 2012-03-12 16:22:59 <[Tycho]> I don't think that I changed something in that part recently.
1267 2012-03-12 16:23:22 <[Tycho]> May be there were no good TXes in memorypool.
1268 2012-03-12 16:24:08 <finway> [Tycho], are you building secret weapon? like ASIC boxes ?
1269 2012-03-12 16:24:12 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: we've gone from about 2.7% 1txn blocks to about 16% 1txn blocks, some with large apparent gaps. Seems unlikely.
1270 2012-03-12 16:24:23 <gmaxwell> finway: go give him list of blocks you think might have been his.
1271 2012-03-12 16:24:38 forsetifox has joined
1272 2012-03-12 16:24:43 <[Tycho]> gmaxwell: it's the MM doing this.
1273 2012-03-12 16:24:50 <[Tycho]> finway: yes.
1274 2012-03-12 16:25:23 <finway> [Tycho], mining at 2Thash/s ?
1275 2012-03-12 16:25:24 <finway> :P
1276 2012-03-12 16:25:59 <[Tycho]> Not yet.
1277 2012-03-12 16:26:50 wasabi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1278 2012-03-12 16:27:44 <[Tycho]> Hmm, 5 empty deepbit blocks in a row.
1279 2012-03-12 16:27:52 <finway> yeah
1280 2012-03-12 16:28:23 <[Tycho]> Well, may be gavin's patch broke something.
1281 2012-03-12 16:28:42 <finway> [Tycho], are these your blocks ?
1282 2012-03-12 16:28:53 bitlad has joined
1283 2012-03-12 16:28:54 <finway> did you check?
1284 2012-03-12 16:29:02 <[Tycho]> No
1285 2012-03-12 16:29:07 bitlad is now known as bitvampire
1286 2012-03-12 16:29:43 <[Tycho]> But you can check by comparing hashes of those blocks against my stats page
1287 2012-03-12 16:30:09 danbri has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1288 2012-03-12 16:31:05 bitvampire has quit (Client Quit)
1289 2012-03-12 16:31:17 <finway> No, they're not.
1290 2012-03-12 16:31:18 bitvampire has joined
1291 2012-03-12 16:31:38 <[Tycho]> How did you know ?
1292 2012-03-12 16:32:36 <finway> [Tycho], check your stat page, unless you lie.
1293 2012-03-12 16:32:50 <finway> s/you/they/
1294 2012-03-12 16:33:10 <[Tycho]> Well, may be MM is connected to my relays only.
1295 2012-03-12 16:33:49 <finway> [Tycho], you and Eligius
1296 2012-03-12 16:34:09 <[Tycho]> She is clever :)
1297 2012-03-12 16:35:03 <finway> She is.
1298 2012-03-12 16:35:28 erle- has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1299 2012-03-12 16:36:29 <kinlo> http://blockorigin.pfoe.be/ usually tells you who generated it
1300 2012-03-12 16:36:40 <kinlo> </shameless spam>
1301 2012-03-12 16:37:39 <gmaxwell> Deepbit. I guess its proven then. [Tycho] is the evil miner.
1302 2012-03-12 16:37:41 <[Tycho]> Some pools publish only block number which is bad idea and error-prone
1303 2012-03-12 16:39:00 <[Tycho]> kinlo: what is that asterisk for ?
1304 2012-03-12 16:39:25 <kinlo> blocks that are on the pools public sites by block number instead of a generation hash or blockhash
1305 2012-03-12 16:39:44 <kinlo> there have been pools that just calculate the blocknumber wrong in some way
1306 2012-03-12 16:39:59 <gmaxwell> kinlo: oh so you're not just guessing by IP?
1307 2012-03-12 16:40:01 <gmaxwell> haha
1308 2012-03-12 16:40:19 <kinlo> gmaxwell: I scrape webpages, as explained in the header
1309 2012-03-12 16:40:43 <gmaxwell> You expected me to READ?
1310 2012-03-12 16:40:47 <kinlo> it's just because blockchain.info does it based on ip address and is sometimes wrong
1311 2012-03-12 16:40:57 <kinlo> so this should fill in the gaps
1312 2012-03-12 16:41:14 dissipate has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1313 2012-03-12 16:41:23 <gmaxwell> kinlo: can you list the number of transactions on that page too without too much trouble?
1314 2012-03-12 16:41:29 <kinlo> gmaxwell: I know some people do
1315 2012-03-12 16:41:45 <kinlo> gmaxwell: not really, I just scrape the blockexplorer's page, would take me some time
1316 2012-03-12 16:41:57 <kinlo> this is 100% webscraping, no bitcoin client involved :)
1317 2012-03-12 16:42:10 <gmaxwell> Fair enough.
1318 2012-03-12 16:42:23 JRWR has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1319 2012-03-12 16:43:02 <finway> kinlo, digbtc.com did the same thing, but seems not working.
1320 2012-03-12 16:43:29 BlueMatt has joined
1321 2012-03-12 16:43:43 <denisx> kinlo: more to scrape for you: http://www.btcmp.com/blocklist
1322 2012-03-12 16:43:54 <kinlo> finway: I know, I wrote that before digbtc.com was online, so I abandoned the project before I entered all pools, but then digbtc.com got unreachable so I revived it a few weeks ago
1323 2012-03-12 16:44:20 <finway> kinlo, good!
1324 2012-03-12 16:44:39 <denisx> kinlo: if you want it as json I could also do that
1325 2012-03-12 16:44:49 pklaus has quit ()
1326 2012-03-12 16:44:52 <kinlo> denisx: it's your pool?
1327 2012-03-12 16:45:01 <denisx> yes
1328 2012-03-12 16:45:32 <luke-jr> Apparently Windows 7 is reporting "Program not responding" briefly during startup of 0.5.3rc4
1329 2012-03-12 16:45:44 <luke-jr> is the key checking much overhead?
1330 2012-03-12 16:46:28 <kinlo> luke-jr: usually, blockchain index loading and address loading is the big issue at startup
1331 2012-03-12 16:46:40 <kinlo> denisx: what is the official name of your pool?
1332 2012-03-12 16:46:49 <denisx> kinlo: btcmp.com
1333 2012-03-12 16:47:11 * luke-jr sighs at yet another misuse of "BTC" :p
1334 2012-03-12 16:47:23 <denisx> luke-jr: too late ;)
1335 2012-03-12 16:47:41 <kinlo> denisx: you're doing ajax, can't scrape that
1336 2012-03-12 16:47:48 <luke-jr> lol
1337 2012-03-12 16:48:01 <denisx> kinlo: ok, wait
1338 2012-03-12 16:51:11 <lianj> cant scrape ajax? oO
1339 2012-03-12 16:51:49 barmstro_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1340 2012-03-12 16:52:08 <luke-jr> harder to scrape simple Async ECMAScript <.<
1341 2012-03-12 16:52:13 <luke-jr> ie, fetch and eval
1342 2012-03-12 16:52:59 <lianj> why would you need to eval a json reply?
1343 2012-03-12 16:53:29 <luke-jr> lianj: who said it was JSON?
1344 2012-03-12 16:53:33 userjgf has joined
1345 2012-03-12 16:53:51 <luke-jr> could just as well be full fledged code
1346 2012-03-12 16:54:45 <denisx> it will be json soon
1347 2012-03-12 16:55:27 <denisx> i just need to explain my coder why there must not be usernames in it *sigh*
1348 2012-03-12 16:55:53 booo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1349 2012-03-12 16:55:57 <lianj> not sure what you were after, but http://btcmp.com/methods/pool/pool_get_stats is json
1350 2012-03-12 16:57:23 zeiris has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1351 2012-03-12 16:58:03 <denisx> kinlo: http://www.btcmp.com/api_get_blocklist?key=dummy&from_id=0&max_logs=100
1352 2012-03-12 16:58:09 t7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1353 2012-03-12 16:58:34 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: what does "first-class" even mean?
1354 2012-03-12 16:58:51 libcoin has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1355 2012-03-12 16:59:01 <[Tycho]> Cool, a new test for the bitcoin network ! :)
1356 2012-03-12 16:59:07 <BlueMatt> ?
1357 2012-03-12 16:59:25 <BlueMatt> you gonna increase your network spam?
1358 2012-03-12 16:59:30 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/first-class
1359 2012-03-12 16:59:47 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I know what it "means" but wtf does it mean in bitcoin?
1360 2012-03-12 16:59:53 <[Tycho]> No, I'm talking about the MM's new idea of 1-tx blocks.
1361 2012-03-12 16:59:57 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1362 2012-03-12 16:59:57 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: not second-class
1363 2012-03-12 16:59:58 <BlueMatt> "first-class-messaging" means nothing
1364 2012-03-12 17:00:33 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: the default is to treat it as a second-class feature, only available via the menu as if it's obscure
1365 2012-03-12 17:00:37 <kinlo> denisx: iek, json
1366 2012-03-12 17:00:42 <BlueMatt> it is obscure...
1367 2012-03-12 17:00:46 <BlueMatt> and should be obscure
1368 2012-03-12 17:00:46 <luke-jr> FIRST_CLASS_MESSAGING makes it a tab along with Send/Receive
1369 2012-03-12 17:00:48 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no.
1370 2012-03-12 17:00:58 <denisx> kinlo: not good
1371 2012-03-12 17:00:58 <kinlo> denisx: now I need to write a regular expression to filter the data out :)
1372 2012-03-12 17:00:59 <denisx> ?
1373 2012-03-12 17:01:30 <luke-jr> it "is" obscure because ordinary people *can't* use it yet.
1374 2012-03-12 17:01:32 archo47 has quit ()
1375 2012-03-12 17:01:34 <luke-jr> it shouldn't be.
1376 2012-03-12 17:01:39 <kinlo> nevermind, I've had to write so many regular expressions before, one more is no problem
1377 2012-03-12 17:02:06 <BlueMatt> and should be hard to access
1378 2012-03-12 17:02:13 <[Tycho]> JSON is cool sometimes.
1379 2012-03-12 17:02:16 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no, it should be regular use
1380 2012-03-12 17:02:38 <luke-jr> merchants should require you to sign an order summary
1381 2012-03-12 17:03:43 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: the use of message signing means you are using a work-flow that is not "correct" according to the recommended workflow that was suggested by satoshi
1382 2012-03-12 17:03:53 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no u
1383 2012-03-12 17:03:55 <BlueMatt> and that bitcoin is essentially designed for
1384 2012-03-12 17:04:17 fimpfimp has joined
1385 2012-03-12 17:04:18 * BlueMatt has yet to hear a reason why anyone should need to use message signing if they did everything "right" to begin with
1386 2012-03-12 17:05:26 wasabi has joined
1387 2012-03-12 17:05:42 <luke-jr> to confirm order details securely
1388 2012-03-12 17:06:08 <BlueMatt> if you do it "right" you already do
1389 2012-03-12 17:06:12 <luke-jr> to configure mining/investment accounts securely
1390 2012-03-12 17:06:24 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no
1391 2012-03-12 17:06:29 <BlueMatt> if you do it "right" you already do
1392 2012-03-12 17:06:38 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: your "right" is wrong :p
1393 2012-03-12 17:06:45 <BlueMatt> see: how every pool except eligius does it
1394 2012-03-12 17:07:19 <luke-jr> see: how every pool except Eligius has been hacked
1395 2012-03-12 17:07:27 <BlueMatt> uhhh...ok
1396 2012-03-12 17:07:29 <luke-jr> or at least has a vulnerability to be
1397 2012-03-12 17:08:02 * BlueMatt facepalm
1398 2012-03-12 17:08:11 <helo> bitcoin's private keys can be used for signing, handshakes... anything that PKI is used with
1399 2012-03-12 17:08:33 <luke-jr> helo: not encryption
1400 2012-03-12 17:08:51 <BlueMatt> helo: can != should
1401 2012-03-12 17:09:00 <helo> it would be pretty cool if their use for other purposes was allowed
1402 2012-03-12 17:09:14 <BlueMatt> they are, but that doesnt mean they should be
1403 2012-03-12 17:09:32 <BlueMatt> again, there is afaik ALWAYS a better way to do it
1404 2012-03-12 17:09:38 <helo> no comment on 'should'
1405 2012-03-12 17:10:09 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I presume you consider paying some trusted party for a SSL cert the "right way" to avoid MITM on orders?
1406 2012-03-12 17:10:57 <helo> luke-jr: they can be used for encryption indirectly via a handshake to exchange an AES key, can't they?
1407 2012-03-12 17:11:08 <luke-jr> maybe.
1408 2012-03-12 17:11:19 <helo> according to gmax they can, at least :)
1409 2012-03-12 17:11:26 <BlueMatt> yea, they could
1410 2012-03-12 17:11:34 JRWR has joined
1411 2012-03-12 17:11:40 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: there are better ways, but it isnt analogous
1412 2012-03-12 17:11:49 pusle has joined
1413 2012-03-12 17:12:07 <helo> it would be kind of neat to buy a VPS, and then use your private key to access the VPS
1414 2012-03-12 17:12:16 dikidera has joined
1415 2012-03-12 17:12:17 diki has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1416 2012-03-12 17:12:23 <BlueMatt> also, cas isnt /that/ bad, its bad but not /that/ bad
1417 2012-03-12 17:12:44 userjgf has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1418 2012-03-12 17:12:45 <BlueMatt> helo: ...or just use ssh key exchange...
1419 2012-03-12 17:13:35 <BlueMatt> with regular logins like every other site in existence does
1420 2012-03-12 17:17:33 CaptainDDL has joined
1421 2012-03-12 17:17:35 p0s has joined
1422 2012-03-12 17:23:01 <helo> if people are going to maintain extremely secure private keys, why not maximize the value by allowing them to be used in all situations that require security?
1423 2012-03-12 17:25:20 <BiTn00b> same reason you shouldn't use the same password for every site/service/account you have?
1424 2012-03-12 17:25:30 <helo> extending signmessage's justification leads to including GPG/PGP functionality within bitcoin
1425 2012-03-12 17:25:31 <Graet> so when its compromised all thier security is gone in one fell swoop?
1426 2012-03-12 17:26:43 <Graet> how "extremely secure private keys" are thewy really once you start spreading them around multiple places?
1427 2012-03-12 17:27:13 <helo> possibly more like "if it is uncompromised then everything is secure"
1428 2012-03-12 17:27:32 <helo> Graet: private keys aren't being spread anywhere... only public keys
1429 2012-03-12 17:28:18 <BlueMatt> in order for your finances to be semi-anonymous you have to keep your list of keys to yourself
1430 2012-03-12 17:28:32 <BlueMatt> you start using them for everything and you lose that property even more than it already is
1431 2012-03-12 17:29:21 <BlueMatt> in cases where you are going to use a key which you have already divulged (ie by paying them "from" that "address")
1432 2012-03-12 17:29:22 josephcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1433 2012-03-12 17:29:27 <BlueMatt> there are almost always better ways
1434 2012-03-12 17:29:46 josephcp has joined
1435 2012-03-12 17:29:59 <helo> one could create keypairs for specific uses/identities, just as people already do with bitcoin
1436 2012-03-12 17:30:29 <BlueMatt> ok, so then why use bitcoin keys for that?
1437 2012-03-12 17:30:38 <BlueMatt> why not just use pgp or some other existing ones?
1438 2012-03-12 17:30:44 <BlueMatt> s/ones/solution/
1439 2012-03-12 17:30:55 <midnightmagic> .. uh.. sipa's minireorg requires a fresh chain download..?
1440 2012-03-12 17:31:10 <midnightmagic> and if so, is there a place that offers the current blockchain for download?
1441 2012-03-12 17:31:27 pklaus has joined
1442 2012-03-12 17:32:03 <helo> BlueMatt: including that kind of functionality bitcoin clients might make them more valuable, leading to increased adoption
1443 2012-03-12 17:32:22 <BlueMatt> so we should include the kitchen sink too?:
1444 2012-03-12 17:32:42 <luke-jr> only if it includes free water
1445 2012-03-12 17:32:53 <midnightmagic> hey uh.. bluematt? is there a specific way to recover from the 170059 block stall that I'm missing?
1446 2012-03-12 17:33:14 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: don't use unreleased software without paying attention?
1447 2012-03-12 17:33:17 <BlueMatt> I havent been paying that much attention...ask sipa or someone
1448 2012-03-12 17:33:19 <helo> i guess "we" is kind of vague... i'd agree that the reference bitcoin implementation should probably stay focuses on bitcoin proper
1449 2012-03-12 17:33:22 <gavinandresen> midnightmagic: there's a good blockchain to block 170,000-something at https://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/blockchain/
1450 2012-03-12 17:33:39 <midnightmagic> thanks gavin.
1451 2012-03-12 17:33:46 <BlueMatt> there are daily snapshots on bitcoincharts somewhere...
1452 2012-03-12 17:33:54 <BlueMatt> http://eu1.bitcoincharts.com/blockchain/
1453 2012-03-12 17:34:02 finway has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1454 2012-03-12 17:34:06 userkhg has joined
1455 2012-03-12 17:34:32 <Raccoon> is there any valid reason for removing the GUI option and display for mining?
1456 2012-03-12 17:34:42 <luke-jr> Raccoon: because it doesn't work.
1457 2012-03-12 17:34:45 <BlueMatt> we did a long time ago..
1458 2012-03-12 17:34:57 <Raccoon> if it didn't work, the code and -gen wouldn't still be in there
1459 2012-03-12 17:35:01 <Raccoon> BlueMatt: i'm well aware
1460 2012-03-12 17:35:05 <luke-jr> Raccoon: ok, it works on testnet only
1461 2012-03-12 17:35:07 <BlueMatt> because its impossibly slow
1462 2012-03-12 17:35:09 <gavinandresen> The environmental police called and asked us to help save the environment by keeping people from wasting electricity
1463 2012-03-12 17:35:14 <helo> and from that perspective it kind of makes sense to not include signmessage in the reference client
1464 2012-03-12 17:35:20 wasabi2 has joined
1465 2012-03-12 17:35:21 <Raccoon> luke-jr: it works on normal net. using it now.
1466 2012-03-12 17:35:35 <luke-jr> helo: signmessage is part of standard Bitcoin use.
1467 2012-03-12 17:35:44 <luke-jr> Raccoon: how many blocks did you find?
1468 2012-03-12 17:35:46 <BlueMatt> helo: I dont think signmessage should be in the reference client...but then there are people who just broke their whole workflow to begin with and need it now...
1469 2012-03-12 17:35:49 <BlueMatt> like luke-jr
1470 2012-03-12 17:36:01 <Raccoon> BlueMatt: it's only slow today because of current hardware dichotomy that changes from year to next.
1471 2012-03-12 17:36:17 <BlueMatt> as long as gpus are faster than cpus for mining, it will be
1472 2012-03-12 17:36:24 <Raccoon> luke-jr: none yet. why do you ask?
1473 2012-03-12 17:36:25 <BlueMatt> and I see no reason why that will ever change
1474 2012-03-12 17:36:28 <luke-jr> Raccoon: it doesn't work unless you find blocks
1475 2012-03-12 17:36:33 <midnightmagic> BlueMatt: thanks for the snapshot archive thingie too
1476 2012-03-12 17:36:50 <Raccoon> BlueMatt: I see no reason why that applies to satoshi's plan.
1477 2012-03-12 17:36:50 <BlueMatt> unless intel adds a bruteforce sha opcode
1478 2012-03-12 17:36:53 JRWR has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1479 2012-03-12 17:37:02 <Raccoon> luke-jr: plenty of people have found blocks with it.
1480 2012-03-12 17:37:10 <BlueMatt> Raccoon: what is the point of having an option that will do nothing?
1481 2012-03-12 17:37:12 <helo> luke-jr: how did the chicken-egg issue of signmessage in the client get solved? i.e. who started using it before it was supported to justify including it?
1482 2012-03-12 17:37:21 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: thank tcatm, he runs it
1483 2012-03-12 17:37:28 <[Tycho]> Signmessage is cool.
1484 2012-03-12 17:37:31 <luke-jr> helo: it was/is needed.
1485 2012-03-12 17:37:40 <BlueMatt> [Tycho]: doesnt mean it has legitimate uses
1486 2012-03-12 17:37:41 wasabi has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1487 2012-03-12 17:37:48 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1488 2012-03-12 17:37:50 <Raccoon> BlueMatt: if all people running the bitcoin client right now had -gen on, i'm pretty confident someone would discover a block at least once a month.
1489 2012-03-12 17:37:57 <BlueMatt> helo: luke-jr did, he designed eligius in such a way that signmessage was required to continue using it
1490 2012-03-12 17:38:03 <[Tycho]> BlueMatt: you can add a setting for showing it.
1491 2012-03-12 17:38:12 <Raccoon> Again, these are all invalid arguments.
1492 2012-03-12 17:38:21 <Raccoon> I asked for a valid argument for the feature's removal
1493 2012-03-12 17:38:35 <Raccoon> Not because "my computer is too slow to work it"
1494 2012-03-12 17:38:35 JRWR has joined
1495 2012-03-12 17:38:43 <luke-jr> Raccoon: because all computers are
1496 2012-03-12 17:38:49 <Raccoon> luke-jr: untrue.
1497 2012-03-12 17:38:56 <[Tycho]> I never mined at Eligius, but still think that message signing is cool.
1498 2012-03-12 17:39:00 <Raccoon> your use of the word 'all' is unfounded.
1499 2012-03-12 17:39:14 <gmaxwell> Raccoon: because people came into IRC many times _angry_ that they'd run for weeks/months with a hot power eating 100% cpu and hadn't gotten a single bitcent.
1500 2012-03-12 17:39:34 <Raccoon> what about Intel's new on die GPU / CPU combos
1501 2012-03-12 17:39:50 <Raccoon> what if those turn out to be 1000x faster than $700 ATI cards
1502 2012-03-12 17:40:02 <gmaxwell> er. they aren't.
1503 2012-03-12 17:40:03 <epscy> i'll be surprised
1504 2012-03-12 17:40:03 <helo> my $120 amd apu can pull 60Mhash :)
1505 2012-03-12 17:40:04 <gavinandresen> Raccoon: so go implement linux/mac/windows GPU p2pool mining and submit a patch.
1506 2012-03-12 17:40:06 <Raccoon> stll no reason to -remove- a feature
1507 2012-03-12 17:40:07 <[Tycho]> No way !
1508 2012-03-12 17:40:10 <BlueMatt> Raccoon: for the average person, you get a block once every 500 years or something else rediculous, thats like adding an option "bruteforce wallet passphrase" to the client
1509 2012-03-12 17:40:10 <BlueMatt> which is just stupid
1510 2012-03-12 17:40:10 <BlueMatt> yea, eventually someone will succeed, but its just stupid to add
1511 2012-03-12 17:40:11 <gmaxwell> And they wouldn't just magicaly be so without code to support them.
1512 2012-03-12 17:40:41 <BlueMatt> even if on-die gpus are fast enough to mine, the in-client stuff will still use the cpu, which is too slow
1513 2012-03-12 17:40:42 <gmaxwell> Raccoon: it was a feature that hurt users and created anger and complaints. And it's not removed, it's just made more advanced by being hidden in the gui.
1514 2012-03-12 17:40:46 <gavinandresen> ... I'd love to see the Create Bitcoins option come back in the client. But is has to be more than a very expensive lottery ticket.
1515 2012-03-12 17:40:53 <BlueMatt> on-die gpu != cpu stuff will be magically offloaded to the gpu
1516 2012-03-12 17:40:55 <midnightmagic> Raccoon: because it's so hugely slow that there's no point, it's slow even as a CPU miner (there are other CPU miners that do way better) and leaving it in the client meant that it was getting abused with disuse (because basically nobody uses it)
1517 2012-03-12 17:40:58 <gmaxwell> I agree with gavinandresen.
1518 2012-03-12 17:41:00 <Raccoon> BlueMatt: Every hash is a valid and equal opportunity to score a solution.
1519 2012-03-12 17:41:06 <Raccoon> EVERY hash is equal
1520 2012-03-12 17:41:25 <forsetifox> Heh.
1521 2012-03-12 17:41:27 <BlueMatt> well the consider me pro-choice on killing hashes
1522 2012-03-12 17:41:27 davex__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1523 2012-03-12 17:41:47 <Raccoon> Put it back into the client with a live view of statistic benchmark.
1524 2012-03-12 17:41:48 <epscy> every hash is equal before it is generated
1525 2012-03-12 17:41:54 <epscy> afterwards not so much
1526 2012-03-12 17:41:59 <[Tycho]> "Generate bitcoins" name is misleading as it implies something will be generated. You'd better call it "Support the network"
1527 2012-03-12 17:42:01 t7 has joined
1528 2012-03-12 17:42:13 <gavinandresen> Raccoon: "put it back" ... that's not the way open source works.
1529 2012-03-12 17:42:27 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: kinda annoying how you have that bias toward p2pool btw
1530 2012-03-12 17:42:35 <BlueMatt> if we re-add the option we get plenty of people complaining that it isnt working and get like 1% increase in network power
1531 2012-03-12 17:42:39 <BlueMatt> its no where near worth it
1532 2012-03-12 17:42:44 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: bias?
1533 2012-03-12 17:42:45 <Raccoon> gavinandresen: you mean *I* have to put it back, or I can't ask to have it put back because I'm a nobody/
1534 2012-03-12 17:42:53 <BlueMatt> p2pool is clearly much better for the network than other pools
1535 2012-03-12 17:43:01 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: than *most* other pools.
1536 2012-03-12 17:43:03 <BlueMatt> thats not bias, thats bias towards bitcoin
1537 2012-03-12 17:43:04 <Raccoon> gavinandresen: "Remove it" is also not how open source works.
1538 2012-03-12 17:43:07 <luke-jr> in the end, p2pool is just another pool
1539 2012-03-12 17:43:13 <BlueMatt> no, its really not
1540 2012-03-12 17:43:21 <luke-jr> p2pool is not any better for the network than Eligius, for instance.
1541 2012-03-12 17:43:21 <gavinandresen> If you want it put back, then make your arguments to "the community" and if you can convince "them" it is a good idea then it will bump up the priority list.
1542 2012-03-12 17:43:27 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: making generate pool is the only reasonable way to have it thereâ and a decenteralized pool is the only reasonable option. It doesn't have to be forrestv's p2pool, but it would be something much like it.
1543 2012-03-12 17:43:43 <epscy> Raccoon: open source isn't a democracy, if you don't like the way bitcoin client is maintained then you can fork it
1544 2012-03-12 17:43:51 <gavinandresen> If you implement it yourself or pay somebody to implement it then that also moves it up the list of things to include (unless it is complicated or will be hard to support going forward)
1545 2012-03-12 17:43:56 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1546 2012-03-12 17:43:58 <Raccoon> satoshi had a plan that all bitcoin clients had the capability to mine coins. He never dreamed of a CPU / GPU split.
1547 2012-03-12 17:44:02 <[Tycho]> Hmm, may be it will be a good idea to rename into "Deepbit p2p pool" :)
1548 2012-03-12 17:44:05 barmstrong has joined
1549 2012-03-12 17:44:14 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: you'll need to implement support for it first ;P
1550 2012-03-12 17:44:24 <gavinandresen> Right now, "Create coins" isn't anywhere close to the list of high priority things I'm personally going to spend any time working on or testing.
1551 2012-03-12 17:44:30 <[Tycho]> There is already lot of p2p stuff in the bitcoind.
1552 2012-03-12 17:44:30 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: you're welcome to adopt Eloipool to use my implementation ofc
1553 2012-03-12 17:44:38 <midnightmagic> gavinandresen: Is the issue re: the borked/forked chain I was on regarding the fact I was running cutting-edge? can I move "back" to a prior version and avoid the problem altogether somehow? just for my mining installations of course. i'll split my "main" or dev branch off to another place for experimentation.
1554 2012-03-12 17:45:06 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: ::sigh:: Go read the messages I sent to you. :( I explained why you got stuck.
1555 2012-03-12 17:45:24 <Raccoon> still not sure why the client doesn't have GPU mining, too
1556 2012-03-12 17:45:48 <BlueMatt> p2pool is clearly much better for the network than eligius or deepbit or any other traditional non-decentralized pool
1557 2012-03-12 17:45:48 <BlueMatt> Ill put it that way
1558 2012-03-12 17:45:48 <luke-jr> Raccoon: probably mining will return to GUI clients when the monolithic issue is overcome, IMO
1559 2012-03-12 17:45:59 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: Eligius supports decentralized mining now.
1560 2012-03-12 17:46:07 <Raccoon> luke-jr: and which is the monolithic issue?
1561 2012-03-12 17:46:07 <BlueMatt> Raccoon: actually, satoshi was very well aware that the gpu split was coming, he just didnt like it
1562 2012-03-12 17:46:12 <BlueMatt> there is a huge difference
1563 2012-03-12 17:46:17 <luke-jr> Raccoon: that the wallet and GUI are in a single program
1564 2012-03-12 17:46:23 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: how so?
1565 2012-03-12 17:46:27 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: you were on git-head (or 0.6rc1) prior to the BIP16 date move forward. A bip16 incompatible transaction made its way into the main chain and you got stuck. Because of some longstanding bugs in bitcoin upgrading to rc2 (or newer git) wasn't enough to fix some people.
1566 2012-03-12 17:46:32 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: same way p2pool is.
1567 2012-03-12 17:46:38 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: miners can make their own blocks
1568 2012-03-12 17:46:47 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: so its not eligius then its an alternate poolish
1569 2012-03-12 17:46:51 <BlueMatt> that has the same name?
1570 2012-03-12 17:46:56 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no, it's Eligius.
1571 2012-03-12 17:47:03 <[Tycho]> I wonder if we can use bad BIP16 TXes to make fun of MM :)
1572 2012-03-12 17:47:06 <BlueMatt> that doesnt explain anything
1573 2012-03-12 17:47:09 <Raccoon> BlueMatt: I didn't say he wasn't technically aware of it, just not keen that only special interest groups should have access to it.
1574 2012-03-12 17:47:12 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: just like with p2pool, individual miners cannot control the generation targets
1575 2012-03-12 17:47:14 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: thats still centeralized.
1576 2012-03-12 17:47:21 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: no more than p2pool is.
1577 2012-03-12 17:47:26 <gmaxwell> (though a big improvement!)
1578 2012-03-12 17:47:31 <tcatm> gavinandresen: Hey :) Did you see my work on improving bitcoin's GUI?
1579 2012-03-12 17:47:32 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: yes... more than p2pool is.
1580 2012-03-12 17:48:03 <BlueMatt> so...what users upload their list of txes with their hash power?
1581 2012-03-12 17:48:10 <BlueMatt> that is still much more centralized than p2pool
1582 2012-03-12 17:48:13 <gavinandresen> tcatm: I think so. I'm GUI-agnostic, sorely tempted quite regularly to split the GUI off as a separate project from core/bitcoind.....
1583 2012-03-12 17:48:28 <helo> if GPU mining was part of the client, p2pool could be made a lot more popular
1584 2012-03-12 17:48:36 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: it kinda already is, just not really
1585 2012-03-12 17:48:37 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: um, no. it's exactly the same as p2pool
1586 2012-03-12 17:48:43 <Raccoon> gavinandresen: I would applaud that effort
1587 2012-03-12 17:48:50 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: is there a link to the txn so I can scowl at whoever the miner was who put the non-bip00016 txn into their block?
1588 2012-03-12 17:48:50 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: so there is no central server?
1589 2012-03-12 17:49:07 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: that's irrelevant to Bitcoin's health.
1590 2012-03-12 17:49:18 <gmaxwell> it's relevant to the miners getting paid.
1591 2012-03-12 17:49:20 <BlueMatt> Raccoon: when p2pool matures more, chances are it will be included on bitcoin.org downloads, but readding cpu mining is just rediculous
1592 2012-03-12 17:49:31 facefox has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1593 2012-03-12 17:49:43 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: its very relevant if that central server can change something to double-spend or otherwise redirect mining power
1594 2012-03-12 17:49:44 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: sure.
1595 2012-03-12 17:49:48 <midnightmagic> gavinandresen: can you verify that your code signing key has fingerprint 2664 6D99 CBAE C9B8 1982 EF60 29D9 EE6B 1FC7 30C1 ?
1596 2012-03-12 17:49:53 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: if it cant, then I agree it is better
1597 2012-03-12 17:49:54 <Raccoon> BlueMatt: it never went away. it's just hidden from sight. and there's no reason it can't come with a disclaimer
1598 2012-03-12 17:49:55 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: p2pool can too.
1599 2012-03-12 17:50:03 facefox has joined
1600 2012-03-12 17:50:05 <BlueMatt> uh, no...it cant without users updating
1601 2012-03-12 17:50:20 <midnightmagic> Raccoon: If you maintain a fork somewhere with the feature re-enabled, I'll run it.
1602 2012-03-12 17:50:32 <midnightmagic> preferrably a feature branch on github...
1603 2012-03-12 17:50:44 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: which they have to, or they're cutoff.
1604 2012-03-12 17:50:47 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: IIRC http://blockchain.info/tx-index/3115497/6a26d2ecb67f27d1fa5524763b49029d7106e91e3cc05743073461a719776192
1605 2012-03-12 17:50:52 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: users can fork Eligius just as well
1606 2012-03-12 17:51:11 occulta has joined
1607 2012-03-12 17:51:17 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: meh, Im not gonna argue this crap with you, I dont care and you havent actually explained anything about how yours technically works
1608 2012-03-12 17:51:29 <BlueMatt> so I cant make an argument either way anyway
1609 2012-03-12 17:51:39 <[Tycho]> gmaxwell: why aren't you using normal BBE ?
1610 2012-03-12 17:51:40 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: BIP 22
1611 2012-03-12 17:51:49 <userkhg> tcatm: could you post link of last changes you made on ui?
1612 2012-03-12 17:51:49 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: miners call getmemorypool and build their own txns (validating against local bitcoind), feed shares back to the centeralized poolserver.
1613 2012-03-12 17:52:05 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: because I copied the link out of a message from gavin from a day ago.
1614 2012-03-12 17:52:06 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I see no bip22
1615 2012-03-12 17:52:10 <BlueMatt> https://github.com/genjix/bips
1616 2012-03-12 17:52:12 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: got it, thanks. :-)
1617 2012-03-12 17:52:18 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: blame genjix if that repo is outdated
1618 2012-03-12 17:52:30 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0022
1619 2012-03-12 17:52:30 <BlueMatt> I also dont see a pull so I blame you
1620 2012-03-12 17:52:45 <BlueMatt> as the bip process stated, you should pull request that repo FIRST
1621 2012-03-12 17:53:21 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: so in other words its a centralized p2pool so in other words, worse than p2pool for the network (but a big improvement over traditional pools) great
1622 2012-03-12 17:53:39 <gavinandresen> Man, daylight savings time makes me grumpy....
1623 2012-03-12 17:53:44 <tcatm> userkhg: https://github.com/tcatm/bitcoin/tree/new-gui
1624 2012-03-12 17:54:01 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: same here, though that may be more of jetlag than dst...
1625 2012-03-12 17:54:53 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it's identical to p2pool in terms of network health
1626 2012-03-12 17:54:54 ThomasV has joined
1627 2012-03-12 17:55:20 <userkhg> tcatm: no screenshot links?
1628 2012-03-12 17:55:26 Joric has quit ()
1629 2012-03-12 17:55:32 <tcatm> userkhg: http://188.138.99.157/stuff/qtvert14.png
1630 2012-03-12 17:55:47 <userkhg> thanks
1631 2012-03-12 17:55:51 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: no its not and if you are going to ignore reality, Im not gonna discuss anything
1632 2012-03-12 17:56:00 <BlueMatt> even p2pool users getting cut off is better than them mining on a forking chain
1633 2012-03-12 17:56:11 <BlueMatt> tcatm: damn that is looking nice
1634 2012-03-12 17:56:17 blumenkraft has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1635 2012-03-12 17:56:30 pklaus has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1636 2012-03-12 17:57:12 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: reality is, the only difference is p2pool *lacking* in ability to auto-update. gmaxwell already explained that there is no possibility of "mining on a forking chain"
1637 2012-03-12 17:57:14 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: if you don't include miners getting paid in health, I think luke is correct.
1638 2012-03-12 17:57:23 <[Tycho]> Why TX icons are THAT large ?
1639 2012-03-12 17:57:25 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: miners can audit their payouts
1640 2012-03-12 17:57:50 <[Tycho]> You can show twice more TXes with normal icons.
1641 2012-03-12 17:58:04 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: sure, but I mean I can DOS the centeralized part and then none of the miners using you get paidâ because they won't get sharesâ though they'll keep mining.
1642 2012-03-12 17:58:27 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I'm assuming they failover to another pool if anything is wrong with their primary.
1643 2012-03-12 17:58:38 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: also, you can DoS p2pool too, and then the consequences are greater.
1644 2012-03-12 17:58:53 <luke-jr> if someone DoS attacks p2pool, miners *can't* failover⦠or do anything online
1645 2012-03-12 17:59:20 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: it's the same deal there at worst. And you can run darknet p2pool nodes, which you can't really do for yours.
1646 2012-03-12 17:59:37 rtznprmpftl has quit (Quit: leaving)
1647 2012-03-12 17:59:40 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: eh?
1648 2012-03-12 17:59:46 <BlueMatt> miners get paid in coinbases in both p2pool and eligius right?
1649 2012-03-12 17:59:52 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: yes
1650 2012-03-12 18:00:09 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: if someone DoS attacks p2pool, the miners' connections are gone
1651 2012-03-12 18:00:21 <BlueMatt> mmm, well whatever
1652 2012-03-12 18:00:24 <neofutur> isnt it possible to use https://github.com/cdhowie/Bitcoin-mining-proxy
1653 2012-03-12 18:00:34 <neofutur> to failover between p2pool and other pools ?
1654 2012-03-12 18:00:47 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: how do you ddos something who's address you simply don't know?
1655 2012-03-12 18:00:53 <neofutur> it works well for normal pools, dunno for p2pool
1656 2012-03-12 18:01:14 <gmaxwell> neofutur: sure, your miners can fail over from p2pool to something else?
1657 2012-03-12 18:01:32 <userkhg> Is it possible have plugins on satoshi client?
1658 2012-03-12 18:02:01 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: you know the address of everyone on p2poolâ¦
1659 2012-03-12 18:02:06 <gmaxwell> No you don't.
1660 2012-03-12 18:02:19 <gmaxwell> P2pool nodes don't have to announce.
1661 2012-03-12 18:02:26 <luke-jr> neofutur: should be fine on Eligius in decentralized mode
1662 2012-03-12 18:02:46 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: some do.
1663 2012-03-12 18:03:08 Cryo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1664 2012-03-12 18:03:19 <BlueMatt> userkhg: patches welcome
1665 2012-03-12 18:03:40 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: sure you want to make it easy to run arbitrary code in bitcoin-qt process space?
1666 2012-03-12 18:03:58 <BlueMatt> no, but that isnt the only way to do plugins
1667 2012-03-12 18:05:08 <BlueMatt> depends on what you want
1668 2012-03-12 18:05:46 yellowhat_ has joined
1669 2012-03-12 18:06:29 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1670 2012-03-12 18:07:16 pklaus has joined
1671 2012-03-12 18:07:25 Cryo has joined
1672 2012-03-12 18:07:25 Cryo has quit (Changing host)
1673 2012-03-12 18:07:25 Cryo has joined
1674 2012-03-12 18:07:32 <userkhg> tcatm: the sidebar is good. let see how will be the box's
1675 2012-03-12 18:07:51 yellowhat has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1676 2012-03-12 18:07:57 yellowhat_ is now known as yellowhat
1677 2012-03-12 18:12:44 <DrHaribo> Hmm, bitcoin blocks being created unusually fast right now?
1678 2012-03-12 18:13:21 wasabi2 is now known as wasabi
1679 2012-03-12 18:13:35 <BlueMatt> there is often quite a bit of variance in block generation speed
1680 2012-03-12 18:13:37 <BlueMatt> its random...
1681 2012-03-12 18:13:40 wasabi has quit (Changing host)
1682 2012-03-12 18:13:40 wasabi has joined
1683 2012-03-12 18:13:46 <copumpkin> three blocks in a row in less than a minute from deepbit wih no transactions in them?
1684 2012-03-12 18:14:05 <BlueMatt> wait, deepbit is generating blocks with no txes?
1685 2012-03-12 18:14:23 <copumpkin> well, it's relaying them :)
1686 2012-03-12 18:14:23 <copumpkin> http://blockchain.info/
1687 2012-03-12 18:14:30 <DrHaribo> It's that secret super miner again
1688 2012-03-12 18:14:32 <copumpkin> who knows what's actually going on
1689 2012-03-12 18:14:36 userkh has joined
1690 2012-03-12 18:14:36 <BlueMatt> meh, probably just peering with deepbit
1691 2012-03-12 18:14:39 <BlueMatt> or I hope so
1692 2012-03-12 18:14:42 <copumpkin> yeah
1693 2012-03-12 18:14:46 <BlueMatt> [Tycho]: you arent generating those, right?
1694 2012-03-12 18:14:50 <copumpkin> three in one minute though?
1695 2012-03-12 18:14:54 <copumpkin> with no txns
1696 2012-03-12 18:15:02 <[Tycho]> No, I don't think so.
1697 2012-03-12 18:15:14 <BlueMatt> well, if its within one minute it may be legitimate to have no txes anyway...
1698 2012-03-12 18:15:18 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: well if there are three in one minute then of course there are no txn.
1699 2012-03-12 18:15:38 <copumpkin> the first of the bunch had no transactions, either :P
1700 2012-03-12 18:15:41 <gmaxwell> You need to stop identifying this MM purely on the basis of having no txn. It's circular.
1701 2012-03-12 18:15:44 userkhg has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1702 2012-03-12 18:16:02 <gmaxwell> "the guy who never mines txn never mines txn" duh.
1703 2012-03-12 18:16:24 <[Tycho]> My last block was 20m ago
1704 2012-03-12 18:17:10 <[Tycho]> She will make my network percentage look bad on the pie chart :(
1705 2012-03-12 18:17:23 <BlueMatt> she?
1706 2012-03-12 18:17:25 <[Tycho]> MM
1707 2012-03-12 18:17:29 <BlueMatt> she?
1708 2012-03-12 18:17:41 <t7> anyone know any technical bitcoin talks? (video)
1709 2012-03-12 18:17:47 <Eliel> copumpkin: please stop just reporting txless blocks. Instead, report only txless blocks when there's txs waiting that are older than 1 minute.
1710 2012-03-12 18:17:49 <midnightmagic> mystery miner
1711 2012-03-12 18:17:57 <BlueMatt> she?
1712 2012-03-12 18:18:02 <[Tycho]> I was talking about Mystery Miner.
1713 2012-03-12 18:18:03 <copumpkin> Eliel: there aren't?
1714 2012-03-12 18:18:09 <BlueMatt> I know, but why she?
1715 2012-03-12 18:18:16 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: why not? english lacks a useful genderal neutral personal.
1716 2012-03-12 18:18:31 <BlueMatt> so why not they?
1717 2012-03-12 18:18:41 <BlueMatt> it/he
1718 2012-03-12 18:18:45 <t7> 'she' is a haskell thing
1719 2012-03-12 18:18:46 <BlueMatt> or just mm
1720 2012-03-12 18:18:47 <midnightmagic> people use "he" or "they" for that. they is grammatically incorrect (for a while yet probably) to refer to a singular.
1721 2012-03-12 18:19:05 <BlueMatt> is incorrect, but more descriptive
1722 2012-03-12 18:19:13 <midnightmagic> "she" is jarring
1723 2012-03-12 18:19:24 <copumpkin> it's not uncommon in certain academic circles
1724 2012-03-12 18:19:35 <[Tycho]> BlueMatt: use this - http://blockorigin.pfoe.be/
1725 2012-03-12 18:19:48 <BlueMatt> who runs that?
1726 2012-03-12 18:20:06 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: ::shrugs:: there are more important things to worry aboutâ if someone wants to use she, who cares?
1727 2012-03-12 18:20:09 <[Tycho]> kinlo stated that he is using block hashes provided by me, so it should be accurate
1728 2012-03-12 18:20:20 <BlueMatt> mmm, nice
1729 2012-03-12 18:20:24 <midnightmagic> "if your pool has mined a block and is not in this list please contact kinlo on freenode so we can add your pool."
1730 2012-03-12 18:20:46 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
1731 2012-03-12 18:20:51 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: It's not that I care. It just "is". And usually it means someone is deliberately choosing to do so.
1732 2012-03-12 18:21:25 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: sometimes people are trying to be more mindful of the gender biases in our language. It might be hopeless but it's not a bad thing.
1733 2012-03-12 18:21:44 <t7> gmaxwell: you swing too far the other way
1734 2012-03-12 18:21:45 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: No, never said it was bad. Just jarring.
1735 2012-03-12 18:22:23 <gmaxwell> t7: I'm not advocating it, just advocating being tolerant in what you recieve. :)
1736 2012-03-12 18:23:01 <midnightmagic> usually someone who is trying to be mindful will use "he or she" which is just being overly wordy
1737 2012-03-12 18:23:09 <BlueMatt> (s)he
1738 2012-03-12 18:23:17 <midnightmagic> sie
1739 2012-03-12 18:23:19 * midnightmagic ducks
1740 2012-03-12 18:23:28 <BlueMatt> no, thats germanic...
1741 2012-03-12 18:23:28 <forrestv> ze!
1742 2012-03-12 18:24:12 <t7> why not use 'one' like we done back in them olden days
1743 2012-03-12 18:25:24 <midnightmagic> t7: because it's too indefinite for this use. you can't refer to a specific person/entity with "one" without being formally inspecific/hypothetical/etc..
1744 2012-03-12 18:25:55 <t7> im gonna start using she now just because it gets on peoples nerves
1745 2012-03-12 18:27:52 <BlueMatt> it doesnt get on people's nerves, it piques their interest
1746 2012-03-12 18:28:00 sacarlson1 has joined
1747 2012-03-12 18:28:13 <BlueMatt> ie you used she, do you actually know that it is a she ie you know who they are
1748 2012-03-12 18:28:14 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1749 2012-03-12 18:28:23 Flargles_ has joined
1750 2012-03-12 18:30:04 <t7> has anyone created a diagram of the different parts of a bitcoin client/node ? (so that if i wanted to reimplement it i could do it part by part)
1751 2012-03-12 18:30:13 <t7> also did the bitcoin client test suit ever happen?
1752 2012-03-12 18:30:47 archo47 has joined
1753 2012-03-12 18:32:51 <t7> diagram/paper
1754 2012-03-12 18:33:10 Cablesaurus has joined
1755 2012-03-12 18:33:10 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
1756 2012-03-12 18:33:10 Cablesaurus has joined
1757 2012-03-12 18:33:34 <midnightmagic> t7: oh, it's you. i didn't recognise you at first.
1758 2012-03-12 18:33:35 <BlueMatt> yea, we have test suite, but it doesnt test some of the most important stuff like block reorg, etc
1759 2012-03-12 18:33:52 <BlueMatt> it only tests basic sanity
1760 2012-03-12 18:36:07 elkingrey has joined
1761 2012-03-12 18:39:53 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin-Test build #187: FAILURE in 5.4 sec: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin-Test/187/
1762 2012-03-12 18:39:53 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: Do not invoke anti-DoS system for invalid BIP16 transactions
1763 2012-03-12 18:39:54 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: Fix addrProxy setting
1764 2012-03-12 18:39:54 <BlueMattBot> * laanwj: Simplify MyGetSpecialFolderPath and fix possible buffer overflow (#901)
1765 2012-03-12 18:39:55 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: bitcoind changes to stop storing settings in wallet.dat.
1766 2012-03-12 18:39:55 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: Reworked QT settings
1767 2012-03-12 18:39:56 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: Store addrProxy port in settings
1768 2012-03-12 18:39:56 <BlueMattBot> * gavinandresen: Move BIP16 switchover time to April 1
1769 2012-03-12 18:39:57 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: Add mruset and use it for setInventoryKnown
1770 2012-03-12 18:39:57 <BlueMattBot> * gavinandresen: Do not start bitcoin: thread on OSX. fixes #889
1771 2012-03-12 18:39:58 <BlueMattBot> * fanquake: "February"
1772 2012-03-12 18:39:58 <BlueMattBot> * gavinandresen: DoS fix for mapOrphanTransactions
1773 2012-03-12 18:39:59 <BlueMattBot> * Matt Corallo: Fix release-process.txt for new deps zip.
1774 2012-03-12 18:39:59 <BlueMattBot> * gavinandresen: Updated Mac build process
1775 2012-03-12 18:40:00 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: Do not allow overwriting unspent transactions (BIP 30)
1776 2012-03-12 18:40:00 <BlueMattBot> * mastergizmo: fix typo src/net.cpp
1777 2012-03-12 18:40:01 <BlueMattBot> * greg: Resolves issue #922 - "wallet passphrase timeout of several years doesn't work"
1778 2012-03-12 18:40:46 <BlueMatt> sorry, that was in error
1779 2012-03-12 18:41:49 facefox has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1780 2012-03-12 18:42:26 facefox has joined
1781 2012-03-12 18:44:41 <sipa> and we have >50% mining power for BIP30
1782 2012-03-12 18:45:38 <userkh> tcatm: I think things like synchronizing, the "refresh" and status icon shouldn't appear on main window
1783 2012-03-12 18:45:53 BlueMattBot has quit ()
1784 2012-03-12 18:46:34 <userkh> tcatm: users when open satoshi client is able to use the client, right?
1785 2012-03-12 18:46:48 <userkh> or should
1786 2012-03-12 18:47:24 <userkh> newbie people don't want to care about synchronizing messages
1787 2012-03-12 18:47:47 <userkh> they just wan't to use it
1788 2012-03-12 18:47:56 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: what's bip30 again?
1789 2012-03-12 18:48:41 BlueMattBot has joined
1790 2012-03-12 18:48:45 <userkh> tcatm: i think this kind of things should be on a tab like network
1791 2012-03-12 18:49:03 <userkh> not on main window
1792 2012-03-12 18:49:17 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: the fix for the Russell O'Connor transaction overwrite attack.
1793 2012-03-12 18:49:26 <userkh> tcatm: understand?
1794 2012-03-12 18:49:45 <jrmithdobbs> ah ok
1795 2012-03-12 18:49:50 <tcatm> userkh: SYNCHRONIZING will disappear after the blockchain is up to date
1796 2012-03-12 18:50:38 pigeons has joined
1797 2012-03-12 18:52:06 <userkh> tcatm: today when i first start bitcoin client, i can't use it imediatally, right?
1798 2012-03-12 18:52:38 <tcatm> well, you'll need a blockchain
1799 2012-03-12 18:53:30 chao has joined
1800 2012-03-12 18:53:43 <userkh> tcatm: so probally we can't remove the synchronizing messages yet
1801 2012-03-12 18:53:54 <BlueMatt> absolutely cant
1802 2012-03-12 18:54:02 merde has joined
1803 2012-03-12 18:54:19 <gmaxwell> The fact that it shows when there has simply been a long interblock gap is a bit unfortunate.
1804 2012-03-12 18:54:36 <BlueMatt> well that shouldnt happen...
1805 2012-03-12 18:54:50 <BlueMatt> what is the delay time to trigger that atm?
1806 2012-03-12 18:54:56 <userkh> tcatm: why the refresh icon?
1807 2012-03-12 18:55:14 <gmaxwell> dunno but people were whining when we had a 45 minute block the other day.
1808 2012-03-12 18:55:17 <tcatm> userkh: So the users knows the client is being synchronized.
1809 2012-03-12 18:55:39 <BlueMatt> 45 minutes is too short, the delay for that should be like an hour or two...
1810 2012-03-12 18:56:00 <BlueMatt> or maybe not, meh whatever
1811 2012-03-12 18:56:13 <userkh> tcatm: but the synchronizing bar is to show client is being synchrinized
1812 2012-03-12 18:56:32 <userkh> tcatm: why the refresh icon
1813 2012-03-12 18:56:37 <gmaxwell> Yea, two hours would be a 6e-6 event.
1814 2012-03-12 18:56:55 <tcatm> userkh: That's a bit redundant, yes.
1815 2012-03-12 18:57:02 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: whats one hour?
1816 2012-03-12 18:57:15 <userkh> tcatm: when the synchronizing bar disappear, means is synchrinized
1817 2012-03-12 18:57:31 <gmaxwell> p=0.0024788 for one hour or greater. (.2%)
1818 2012-03-12 18:57:50 <gmaxwell> 90 minutes is 1.2e-4.
1819 2012-03-12 18:57:57 <userkh> tcatm: i think you could remove the refresh icon
1820 2012-03-12 18:58:10 <BlueMatt> .2% is fine, Id say 1% is should be the target
1821 2012-03-12 18:58:26 <BlueMatt> but maybe not SYNCRONIZING, instead like OUT OF SYNC or something
1822 2012-03-12 18:58:38 <gmaxwell> I dunno about .2% being okay.. thats 10 times a month.
1823 2012-03-12 18:59:24 <gmaxwell> 90 minutes is once every two months, two hours is once every three years or so.
1824 2012-03-12 19:00:15 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1825 2012-03-12 19:00:29 <sipa> every month seems acceptable to me
1826 2012-03-12 19:00:39 <tcatm> userkh: Let's focus on on more important changes first. I think the sidebar is quite good now :)
1827 2012-03-12 19:01:13 <userkh> tcatm: ok, just wanted to give my opinion
1828 2012-03-12 19:01:14 <sipa> gavinandresen: with 50% for BIP30, we should think about a new 0.6.0 rc, indeed
1829 2012-03-12 19:01:40 iocor has joined
1830 2012-03-12 19:02:08 <userkh> tcatm: did you do any work on box's?
1831 2012-03-12 19:02:15 iocor has quit (Client Quit)
1832 2012-03-12 19:02:40 <gavinandresen> sipa: my only question is whether or not to pull 930 for rc3. After a couple of tweaks, I think 'yes.'
1833 2012-03-12 19:03:19 <tcatm> userkh: Well, some very minor changes but not big design decisions yet.
1834 2012-03-12 19:03:45 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: I think we really should have 930 (or some version of it) for 0.6rc3 ... esp since there were rc1 nodes stuck (and probably are still a few...)
1835 2012-03-12 19:03:58 <userkh> tcatm: will you clone samuel ideas?
1836 2012-03-12 19:04:09 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1837 2012-03-12 19:04:11 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: yes. You had a chance to review/ACK it?
1838 2012-03-12 19:04:39 forsetifox has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1839 2012-03-12 19:04:40 tower has joined
1840 2012-03-12 19:04:46 <tcatm> userkh: Possibly. He hasn't done much on designing the tabs' contents, though.
1841 2012-03-12 19:05:07 <userkh> ok
1842 2012-03-12 19:05:11 Flargles_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1843 2012-03-12 19:05:30 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: my ack was withheld no not being able to actually reproduce the issue.
1844 2012-03-12 19:05:37 <sipa> gmaxwell, gavinandresen: i would like to see 930 survive a reorg to an invalid chain
1845 2012-03-12 19:05:58 forsetifox has joined
1846 2012-03-12 19:06:11 <sipa> it's been confirmed by people who were stuck to solve the issue, but it does change a rather fundamental part of the algorithm
1847 2012-03-12 19:07:50 <gavinandresen> sipa: what do you mean 'reorg to an invalid chain' ? how could that happen?
1848 2012-03-12 19:09:02 facefox has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1849 2012-03-12 19:10:02 <sipa> gavinandresen: 0.6.0rc1 nodes experienced thaty
1850 2012-03-12 19:10:12 facefox has joined
1851 2012-03-12 19:10:29 <sipa> they saw a longer chain, but remained on the old chain because the longer one was invalid
1852 2012-03-12 19:10:44 <gavinandresen> ah, you mean re-org to a previously invalid chain...
1853 2012-03-12 19:11:00 <sipa> no, to a still invalid chain
1854 2012-03-12 19:11:40 <sipa> i'd like to be sure that the block chain database remains consistent in that case (i'm pretty sure it will be)
1855 2012-03-12 19:12:38 iocor has joined
1856 2012-03-12 19:12:50 <gavinandresen> You could hack together a test on testnet pretty easily-- just comment out the "20 minute rule" code and re-download the testnet chain
1857 2012-03-12 19:12:52 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: because the date was changed everything went crazy and the reorg code didn't work as well as thought until sipa started looking at it
1858 2012-03-12 19:13:00 <gavinandresen> jrmithdobbs: yes, I know
1859 2012-03-12 19:13:04 <jrmithdobbs> so it needs to be tested more thoroughly and often
1860 2012-03-12 19:13:19 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1861 2012-03-12 19:13:30 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: good call on testnet testing.
1862 2012-03-12 19:13:32 facefox has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1863 2012-03-12 19:13:52 fimpfimp has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1864 2012-03-12 19:14:39 <gavinandresen> Actually, are there invalid BIP16 transactions in the testnet chain? -paytoscripthashtime=0 might be even easier....
1865 2012-03-12 19:15:01 facefox has joined
1866 2012-03-12 19:15:01 facefox has quit (Excess Flood)
1867 2012-03-12 19:15:22 larsivi has joined
1868 2012-03-12 19:16:16 iocor has quit (Client Quit)
1869 2012-03-12 19:19:11 <Zarutian> hmm.. bitcoin-qt for MacOS X quits after loading database indexes but before showing the ui. Deleting the database indexes doesnt help. (It usually did for older versions). Anyone care to give me some relating advice?
1870 2012-03-12 19:19:46 Flargles_ has joined
1871 2012-03-12 19:20:48 <luke-jr> Zarutian: version?
1872 2012-03-12 19:21:17 FACEFOX has joined
1873 2012-03-12 19:22:20 <Zarutian> luke-jr: cant recall exactly. think it is 0.5.3. Updated last time sometime in the january of this year.
1874 2012-03-12 19:22:31 BGL has joined
1875 2012-03-12 19:22:42 <luke-jr> 0.5.3 isn't even released for a few more daysâ¦
1876 2012-03-12 19:22:57 <luke-jr> pastebin the end of your debug.log
1877 2012-03-12 19:22:57 <Zarutian> then most defnitly it is 0.5.2
1878 2012-03-12 19:24:49 <Zarutian> here it is http://pastebin.com/uEgGzDz9
1879 2012-03-12 19:25:58 paraipan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1880 2012-03-12 19:27:42 <Zarutian> also got the problem report details from Apple's "Send Report" thingy
1881 2012-03-12 19:28:04 Karmaon has joined
1882 2012-03-12 19:29:49 <Zarutian> want that in a gluejar (pastebin) too?
1883 2012-03-12 19:31:01 <sipa> Zarutian: that looks related like something that was fixed in 0.5.3
1884 2012-03-12 19:31:47 <sipa> or was it?
1885 2012-03-12 19:32:08 <sipa> sec
1886 2012-03-12 19:32:21 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
1887 2012-03-12 19:33:16 <Zarutian> the crash report says it was an invalid exec access to address 0x00000000ffffff85
1888 2012-03-12 19:34:12 <sipa> luke-jr, gavinandresen: is issue 889 relevant in 0.5.x?
1889 2012-03-12 19:34:45 <sipa> seems not
1890 2012-03-12 19:34:57 <Zarutian> which is in an region mapped to /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib . Something tells me this is a function pointer gone astray
1891 2012-03-12 19:35:07 <sipa> looks like it, indeed
1892 2012-03-12 19:35:20 <BlueMattBot> Yippie, build fixed!
1893 2012-03-12 19:35:21 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin-Test build #189: FIXED in 46 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin-Test/189/
1894 2012-03-12 19:36:20 bitvampire has left ()
1895 2012-03-12 19:36:53 <gavinandresen> Zarutian: same problem as this: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/749 ?
1896 2012-03-12 19:38:10 <gavinandresen> Zarutian: ... and what version of OSX? 32 or 64 bit Mac? And if it's not the same as issue 749, please open a new issue.
1897 2012-03-12 19:38:54 <Zarutian> gavinandresen: very similiar. Splash screen window apears, says it load wallet, addresses, block index and says it is done doing that and then quits.
1898 2012-03-12 19:39:24 <Zarutian> bbl going to eat dinner
1899 2012-03-12 19:39:26 <gavinandresen> Ok. If you can compare notes with the other person having that issue it might help
1900 2012-03-12 19:43:14 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: rebroad opened issue 935 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/935>
1901 2012-03-12 19:47:30 Wack0 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1902 2012-03-12 19:52:08 iocor has joined
1903 2012-03-12 19:52:12 iocor has quit (Client Quit)
1904 2012-03-12 19:54:58 <sipa> bitclockers deployed bip30, got an orphan block, and then reverted the patch...
1905 2012-03-12 19:55:11 <sipa> while the code has 0 effect before march 15th
1906 2012-03-12 19:55:51 <kinlo> :)
1907 2012-03-12 19:56:14 <kinlo> how is march 15th done? based on time or just guessed on predicted blocknum?
1908 2012-03-12 19:56:30 pklaus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1909 2012-03-12 19:56:38 <sipa> based on timestamp in block
1910 2012-03-12 19:56:44 <kinlo> if times are out of sync, you could create small splits around that time - unless it's done on blocknum, or am I incorrect?
1911 2012-03-12 19:57:07 <sipa> the rule applies to any block whose timestamp is after the switchover time
1912 2012-03-12 19:57:12 <sipa> so it is unambiguous
1913 2012-03-12 19:57:28 <kinlo> k, thanks
1914 2012-03-12 20:02:41 <gmaxwell> sipa: kinda sad- the patch is super readable.
1915 2012-03-12 20:03:32 att has joined
1916 2012-03-12 20:04:30 <sipa> i told themn they just had bad luck
1917 2012-03-12 20:05:11 bitvampire has joined
1918 2012-03-12 20:05:25 <sipa> can someone mine a block on testnet?
1919 2012-03-12 20:06:35 att is now known as gilm
1920 2012-03-12 20:06:59 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Relax, its only ONES and ZEROS!)
1921 2012-03-12 20:07:33 <kinlo> isn't testnet's difficulty low?
1922 2012-03-12 20:07:51 <kinlo> my testnet is still 0.5 so I don't dare to run it :/
1923 2012-03-12 20:07:52 <sipa> yes, but i intentionally corrupted my blockchain
1924 2012-03-12 20:08:00 <sipa> so i can't extend it myself
1925 2012-03-12 20:09:33 <gavinandresen> sipa: I fired up a miner, should have a block in a minute or three
1926 2012-03-12 20:10:20 <sipa> thanks
1927 2012-03-12 20:13:06 <kinlo> I'm cpumining now too with 5.03 client
1928 2012-03-12 20:13:11 <kinlo> should be usefull, no?
1929 2012-03-12 20:14:01 <sipa> kinlo: you're extending an old chain, it won't help
1930 2012-03-12 20:14:20 <kinlo> wasn't 0.5.3 having the 0.6 stuff backported?
1931 2012-03-12 20:14:32 <sipa> oh, yes, indeed
1932 2012-03-12 20:15:10 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
1933 2012-03-12 20:15:19 BlueMatt has joined
1934 2012-03-12 20:17:08 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1935 2012-03-12 20:17:44 bitvampire has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1936 2012-03-12 20:19:50 <sipa> gavinandresen: ok, my testnet node with minireorg; disabled new rule, redownloaded chain, enabled new rule, waited for new block, large reorganization, and i'm now on 49720
1937 2012-03-12 20:20:40 <gavinandresen> good. (49721 just generated?)
1938 2012-03-12 20:20:45 <sipa> yes
1939 2012-03-12 20:21:00 <sipa> midnightmagic: you were stuck on 170059?
1940 2012-03-12 20:25:01 <jrmithdobbs> damned 170059
1941 2012-03-12 20:25:08 <midnightmagic> sipa: I was. the fastest recovery for me was to pull the 170000 chain download from sf, update to the latest head, rebuild, and restart.
1942 2012-03-12 20:25:30 <midnightmagic> sipa: it turns out sourceforge can supply me with like 6M/s downloads (!!)
1943 2012-03-12 20:25:30 <sipa> midnightmagic: my minireorg didn't work anymore?
1944 2012-03-12 20:25:58 <midnightmagic> sipa: I tried it, but in the main instance I was concerned about, bitcoin was finding a bad block back in the 168000 range and it was still generating db faults.
1945 2012-03-12 20:26:33 <midnightmagic> sipa: I *think* I kept the broken db.* files around, so if testing would be helpful, i have lots of machines, lots of hardware, I can do it with relatively little issue.
1946 2012-03-12 20:26:37 lyspooner has joined
1947 2012-03-12 20:26:47 <sipa> shouldn't be needed
1948 2012-03-12 20:27:14 <midnightmagic> k
1949 2012-03-12 20:28:34 <midnightmagic> sipa: thanks for making your patches available on github, btw
1950 2012-03-12 20:29:07 <midnightmagic> it helps me more to stare at code than try to understand from chatting w/ people.
1951 2012-03-12 20:32:51 winterblack has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1952 2012-03-12 20:39:20 booo has joined
1953 2012-03-12 20:40:31 FACEFOX has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1954 2012-03-12 20:43:17 FACEFOX has joined
1955 2012-03-12 20:44:23 denisx has joined
1956 2012-03-12 20:48:43 Cablesaurus has joined
1957 2012-03-12 20:48:43 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
1958 2012-03-12 20:48:43 Cablesaurus has joined
1959 2012-03-12 20:49:09 mortikia has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1960 2012-03-12 20:49:46 Rebroad has joined
1961 2012-03-12 20:49:49 <Rebroad> hi.. I want to run bitcoin-qt on windows, but my wallet now is in a format that needs >db4.8 - does this mean my only choice now is to use a new wallet file or compile bitcoin-qt myself?
1962 2012-03-12 20:50:00 <BlueMatt> yep
1963 2012-03-12 20:50:11 <sipa> you can dump the wallet file, and reimport it
1964 2012-03-12 20:50:17 <BlueMatt> oh, or that
1965 2012-03-12 20:50:20 <Rebroad> or can I extract stuff from the wallet file...?
1966 2012-03-12 20:50:23 <Rebroad> ah. yes.
1967 2012-03-12 20:50:25 <sipa> with db5.1_dump
1968 2012-03-12 20:50:33 <Rebroad> cool.. thank you
1969 2012-03-12 20:50:35 <sipa> and db4.8_load
1970 2012-03-12 20:50:48 <Rebroad> I will look into that. cheers
1971 2012-03-12 20:50:54 mortikia has joined
1972 2012-03-12 20:51:47 mortikia has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1973 2012-03-12 20:52:27 mortikia has joined
1974 2012-03-12 20:54:06 slush1 has joined
1975 2012-03-12 20:55:10 Rebroad has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1976 2012-03-12 20:56:18 slush has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1977 2012-03-12 20:57:39 BiTn00b has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356])
1978 2012-03-12 20:57:42 JRWR has quit (Disconnected by services)
1979 2012-03-12 20:57:52 JRWR has joined
1980 2012-03-12 21:01:43 danbri has joined
1981 2012-03-12 21:12:04 <Diablo-D3> http://www.regretsy.com/2012/03/12/paypal-does-it-again/
1982 2012-03-12 21:20:25 <neofutur> I love the cold money icon
1983 2012-03-12 21:22:31 sgornick has joined
1984 2012-03-12 21:24:17 occulta has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1985 2012-03-12 21:25:02 <BlueMatt> paypal really needs to get those review issues worked out
1986 2012-03-12 21:25:20 <BlueMatt> seems like every month now they are getting crap from one person or another on how they dealt with a particular situation
1987 2012-03-12 21:25:48 <Diablo-D3> yup
1988 2012-03-12 21:25:49 <Diablo-D3> which is why
1989 2012-03-12 21:26:00 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin is going to be ron paul's vice presidential picl
1990 2012-03-12 21:26:24 <BlueMatt> heh, ok Im waiting for that announcement
1991 2012-03-12 21:26:47 <Zarutian> gavinandresen: back, on further reading it seem that it isnt the same exact problem as https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/749 as that seems to be a error in relation to fork() call while in my case it is a corrupt pointer. Alloc/dealloc problems?
1992 2012-03-12 21:27:07 <Diablo-D3> SATOSHI FOR PRESIDENT
1993 2012-03-12 21:27:18 * Diablo-D3 puts on a green mask and a suit
1994 2012-03-12 21:27:30 occulta has joined
1995 2012-03-12 21:27:33 <Zarutian> Diablo-D3: president of what? the bitcoin community?
1996 2012-03-12 21:27:42 <Diablo-D3> of the world.
1997 2012-03-12 21:27:52 <Zarutian> real or imaginary?
1998 2012-03-12 21:28:09 <Diablo-D3> both!
1999 2012-03-12 21:28:19 <sipa> so, complex?
2000 2012-03-12 21:28:28 <Diablo-D3> sipa: :D
2001 2012-03-12 21:29:07 <sipa> naturally, that would integrally result in a really rational solution
2002 2012-03-12 21:29:45 <BlueMatt> math puns...
2003 2012-03-12 21:30:48 <Diablo-D3> glorious.jpg
2004 2012-03-12 21:31:12 <Zarutian> Diablo-D3: hypno-?
2005 2012-03-12 21:32:03 iocor has joined
2006 2012-03-12 21:32:35 cande has joined
2007 2012-03-12 21:38:14 <Diablo-D3> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_I2uQkGxIykM/TUI3OWUo3RI/AAAAAAAAOKg/-qGXyVZmZAA/s1600/glo+bf.jpg
2008 2012-03-12 21:43:37 <[Tycho]> What block it was ? https://blockchain.info/charts/transaction-fees?timespan=30days&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=
2009 2012-03-12 21:44:56 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2010 2012-03-12 21:47:02 <BlueMatt> wtf?
2011 2012-03-12 21:49:41 chrisb__ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2012 2012-03-12 21:50:02 <[Tycho]> I didn't noticed anything suspicious that day
2013 2012-03-12 21:50:46 <sipa> seems a bug
2014 2012-03-12 21:52:13 gilm has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015 2012-03-12 21:52:14 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2016 2012-03-12 21:52:44 <BlueMatt> that graph is calculated in a weird way, I just nexted through the list of blocks on blockchain.info for 2-25 and saw no fees that were out of the ordinary
2017 2012-03-12 21:52:51 marf_away has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2018 2012-03-12 21:52:53 <[Tycho]> I did the same :)
2019 2012-03-12 21:54:19 paraipan has joined
2020 2012-03-12 21:54:44 elkingrey has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2021 2012-03-12 21:55:14 pusle has quit ()
2022 2012-03-12 21:56:14 userkh has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2023 2012-03-12 22:00:14 hermeto-afk has joined
2024 2012-03-12 22:05:10 JRWR has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2025 2012-03-12 22:05:33 mologie has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2026 2012-03-12 22:05:49 ThomasV has joined
2027 2012-03-12 22:09:01 useruhg has joined
2028 2012-03-12 22:09:13 splatster has joined
2029 2012-03-12 22:13:42 FACEFOX has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2030 2012-03-12 22:14:04 hermeto-afk is now known as hermeto
2031 2012-03-12 22:14:41 FACEFOX has joined
2032 2012-03-12 22:17:09 occulta has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2033 2012-03-12 22:17:49 agricocb has joined
2034 2012-03-12 22:18:52 <sipa> gavinandresen: do you think any more testing of #930 is required?
2035 2012-03-12 22:19:58 hermeto is now known as rodrigorcm
2036 2012-03-12 22:20:04 <gavinandresen> sipa: "works for me" -- and I think it is better than before
2037 2012-03-12 22:21:57 <splatster> gavinandresen: Is there an easy way to get mining on testnet on OS X 10.7?
2038 2012-03-12 22:22:33 <gmaxwell> sipa: I just pulled it in- it survived reorg (on both good and bad sides) on testnet for me.
2039 2012-03-12 22:22:35 <luke-jr> splatster: cgminer? :p
2040 2012-03-12 22:22:41 <gavinandresen> splatster: sure, just open bitcoin-qt.app --args -gen=1 -testnet
2041 2012-03-12 22:22:54 <splatster> Running /Applications/Bitcoin-Qt.app/Contents/MacOS/Bitcoin-Qt -testnet -gen=1 seems to be spinning wheels for nothing.
2042 2012-03-12 22:22:57 <splatster> hmm
2043 2012-03-12 22:23:02 <splatster> I'll try that instead
2044 2012-03-12 22:23:10 <kinlo> luke-jr: cgminer is hard to find for mac
2045 2012-03-12 22:23:16 <luke-jr> o
2046 2012-03-12 22:23:19 <BlueMatt> you probably wont get much cpumining on testnet either...
2047 2012-03-12 22:23:28 BlueMatt has left ("Ex-Chat")
2048 2012-03-12 22:23:35 <sipa> BlueMatt: sure you do, one block every 20 minutes :)
2049 2012-03-12 22:23:35 BlueMatt has joined
2050 2012-03-12 22:23:39 <kinlo> diablo's stuff is the most easy miner to get up and running on macosx
2051 2012-03-12 22:23:40 <sipa> BlueMatt: sure you do, one block every 20 minutes :)
2052 2012-03-12 22:23:44 <sipa> well, 21 minutes
2053 2012-03-12 22:23:50 <BlueMatt> ok, not much by my count...
2054 2012-03-12 22:23:53 <kinlo> BlueMatt: testnet's difficulty is still very low :)
2055 2012-03-12 22:24:01 <BlueMatt> at least not usefully much to do much testint
2056 2012-03-12 22:24:02 <BlueMatt> g
2057 2012-03-12 22:24:11 <sipa> gavinandresen, gmaxwell: so, 0.6.0rc3?
2058 2012-03-12 22:24:29 <splatster> 0.6 rc3 is already out there?
2059 2012-03-12 22:24:41 <splatster> damn, I need to update already
2060 2012-03-12 22:24:44 <BlueMatt> no
2061 2012-03-12 22:24:48 <splatster> oh
2062 2012-03-12 22:24:48 <BlueMatt> its not even tagged...
2063 2012-03-12 22:25:04 <sipa> unless there is some light on the windows bitcoin-qt crashes
2064 2012-03-12 22:25:06 <sipa> issue
2065 2012-03-12 22:25:16 <luke-jr> splatster: unless you want new stuff, stick to 0.4.x or 0.5.x :p
2066 2012-03-12 22:25:16 <gmaxwell> thats such a bummer of an issue.
2067 2012-03-12 22:25:37 <gavinandresen> that was an issue in rc1 and 2, right?
2068 2012-03-12 22:25:54 <gmaxwell> yes, and 0.5.x
2069 2012-03-12 22:26:00 <kinlo> there still are no windows devvers on the bitcoin project?
2070 2012-03-12 22:26:01 <gmaxwell> it's not a regression as far as we know.
2071 2012-03-12 22:26:17 <BlueMatt> has no one had the time to debug it in wine+valgrind?
2072 2012-03-12 22:26:56 <sipa> well, i have an actual windows here as well somewhere on that partition
2073 2012-03-12 22:26:57 [Prayer] has joined
2074 2012-03-12 22:27:07 <sipa> what would one need to install to be able to build and debug there?
2075 2012-03-12 22:27:14 <BlueMatt> gdb for windows
2076 2012-03-12 22:27:16 * sipa feels this will take time
2077 2012-03-12 22:27:29 * BlueMatt agrees
2078 2012-03-12 22:27:39 <BlueMatt> anyway, Ive gotta go write a paper, see yall later
2079 2012-03-12 22:27:50 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: is the issue reproducable in wine?
2080 2012-03-12 22:27:55 <BlueMatt> yes
2081 2012-03-12 22:28:16 <splatster> I have run OS X 10.8 on a VM already; bitcoin-qt looks to function properly.
2082 2012-03-12 22:28:30 <splatster> So that's one less headache for the dev team.
2083 2012-03-12 22:28:45 <sipa> splatster: good, which version?
2084 2012-03-12 22:29:03 <splatster> 0.5.2
2085 2012-03-12 22:29:13 <splatster> I wanted to stay away from bet versions on there
2086 2012-03-12 22:29:52 <splatster> Apple gives away free copies of OS X Server (which you need for VMs) if you are a member of the dev program.
2087 2012-03-12 22:30:12 <splatster> Although OS X 10.8 isn't much better :/
2088 2012-03-12 22:30:16 lyspooner has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2089 2012-03-12 22:30:30 <kinlo> I never had any issues with 0.5.2, still running snow leopard, but native, no vm stuff
2090 2012-03-12 22:31:08 <splatster> kinlo: I'm running OS X 10.7 on this MPB and I also have 10.8 in a VM
2091 2012-03-12 22:31:12 <gavinandresen> sipa: we should bump the version number so we can send alerts to pre-rc3 users
2092 2012-03-12 22:31:35 Sedra- has joined
2093 2012-03-12 22:31:49 <sipa> is that the client version or the network version?
2094 2012-03-12 22:32:02 <gavinandresen> (I was just trying to remember which one we want....)
2095 2012-03-12 22:32:05 <gavinandresen> client, I think
2096 2012-03-12 22:32:14 <sipa> yes
2097 2012-03-12 22:32:19 jamalaka has joined
2098 2012-03-12 22:32:44 <gavinandresen> can you do that? I'm in the middle of reconfiguring apache....
2099 2012-03-12 22:32:50 rodrigorcm is now known as rudrigorc2
2100 2012-03-12 22:33:38 Sedra has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2101 2012-03-12 22:33:48 mologie has joined
2102 2012-03-12 22:33:53 <sipa> gavinandresen: seems AppliesToMe uses PROTOCOL_VERSION
2103 2012-03-12 22:34:03 <sipa> not sure that is the best choice
2104 2012-03-12 22:35:08 <luke-jr> :|
2105 2012-03-12 22:35:09 <gavinandresen> sipa: yes, client version there would be better. Lets change that too with rc3
2106 2012-03-12 22:35:46 <sipa> except for code pre-0.6.0rc1, they have been identical for every release
2107 2012-03-12 22:35:58 * BlueMatt prefers client string+version, so that alt clients can use alert mechanisms to do useful things
2108 2012-03-12 22:36:06 <BlueMatt> though that would get kinda tricky...
2109 2012-03-12 22:36:13 <sipa> BlueMatt: there is a match on subversion as well
2110 2012-03-12 22:36:49 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2111 2012-03-12 22:38:32 gilm has joined
2112 2012-03-12 22:38:52 iocor has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
2113 2012-03-12 22:39:21 <BlueMatt> oh, then imo it is right, we have SubVer stuff handled so we can match client versions, then protocol_version can just be used for larger issues
2114 2012-03-12 22:39:53 <sipa> but protocol version changes will always be accompanied with a client version as well
2115 2012-03-12 22:39:59 darkee has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2116 2012-03-12 22:40:03 <sipa> so using the latter has more resolution
2117 2012-03-12 22:40:14 <BlueMatt> yes, and we already support using the latter...
2118 2012-03-12 22:40:16 darkee has joined
2119 2012-03-12 22:40:45 <sipa> you have to explicitly enumerate all subversions in that case
2120 2012-03-12 22:41:21 <sipa> gavinandresen: your opinion?
2121 2012-03-12 22:41:41 Cory has quit ()
2122 2012-03-12 22:41:42 iocor has joined
2123 2012-03-12 22:41:43 <BlueMatt> yea, but if you are going to set the version based on nMinVer and nMaxVer you need to also have a way to set strMinVer = "Satoshi/0.5" strMaxVer = "Satoshi/0.6"
2124 2012-03-12 22:41:53 <BlueMatt> I agree, enumeration is crap, but...
2125 2012-03-12 22:42:51 <gavinandresen> hang on, let me think....
2126 2012-03-12 22:43:09 SomeoneWeirdzzzz is now known as SomeoneWeird
2127 2012-03-12 22:43:24 Rebroad has joined
2128 2012-03-12 22:44:23 <[Prayer]> out of curiosity, why not a kill switch to prevent older clients from generating new transactions?
2129 2012-03-12 22:44:39 <[Tycho]> [Prayer]: why ?
2130 2012-03-12 22:44:43 <BlueMatt> thats pretty much what alerts are...
2131 2012-03-12 22:44:51 <BlueMatt> they still can, but it warns you not to
2132 2012-03-12 22:45:12 <[Prayer]> just an idle thought... I keep reading threads about new features not workign with old clients, or issues, or whatever
2133 2012-03-12 22:45:39 <[Tycho]> A malicious user can always create it manually.
2134 2012-03-12 22:46:03 <[Prayer]> true... you can never defeat pure stupidity or pure greed
2135 2012-03-12 22:46:58 <sipa> or an alternative client
2136 2012-03-12 22:47:06 JRWR has joined
2137 2012-03-12 22:47:08 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2138 2012-03-12 22:47:09 <sipa> or someone who strips out the kill switch from the code
2139 2012-03-12 22:47:24 <sipa> i believe such a fork would quickly exist
2140 2012-03-12 22:47:43 * [Tycho] just finished some nice strange TX generator :)
2141 2012-03-12 22:48:45 stochastic_ has joined
2142 2012-03-12 22:49:39 <gavinandresen> sipa: Ok, let's keep CAlert::AppliesToMe() as-is. Bump CLIENT_VERSION... I'm torn on whether or not to bump PROTOCOL_VERSION. Technically, the dup coinbase change is a protocol change, right?
2143 2012-03-12 22:50:38 <sipa> gavinandresen: no, the way I see it, PROTOCOL_VERSION is simple the peer-to-peer transport layer
2144 2012-03-12 22:50:50 <gavinandresen> ... that's why I'm torn....
2145 2012-03-12 22:51:46 <BlueMatt> in this case, since the alert really only needs to hit users of 0.6rc1, we can just do an alert with one enumerated subver, so its not a big deal either way imho...
2146 2012-03-12 22:51:49 <gavinandresen> But sipa is version-meister, so lets go with PROTOCOL_VERSION means the transport protocol
2147 2012-03-12 22:51:55 <Eliel> is there some reason not to bump it?
2148 2012-03-12 22:52:27 <BlueMatt> is there some reason to bump it?
2149 2012-03-12 22:52:57 <BlueMatt> ;)
2150 2012-03-12 22:53:20 <gavinandresen> Reason not to: what sipa said, PROTOCOL_VERSION is about bytes across the network
2151 2012-03-12 22:53:40 <gavinandresen> And as Matt says, we can still Alert if we need to
2152 2012-03-12 22:53:54 <Eliel> ok, so, there must be a reason to bump it since you're thinking about it.
2153 2012-03-12 22:54:00 <Eliel> what is it?
2154 2012-03-12 22:54:23 <gavinandresen> The alert mechanism makes it easy to target a range of PROTOCOL_VERSIONS
2155 2012-03-12 22:54:51 <gavinandresen> It can't target a range of CLIENT_VERSIONS (there's actually a TODO in the code about that....)
2156 2012-03-12 22:55:08 <BlueMatt> it sort of can, its just a really ugly hack to list them all...
2157 2012-03-12 22:56:23 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
2158 2012-03-12 22:57:11 rudrigorc2 is now known as hermeto
2159 2012-03-12 22:57:20 hermeto is now known as rudrigorc2
2160 2012-03-12 23:00:42 <useruhg> tcatm: you there?
2161 2012-03-12 23:01:57 denisx has joined
2162 2012-03-12 23:03:47 useruhg has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2163 2012-03-12 23:04:01 Rebroad has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2164 2012-03-12 23:04:04 userjgh has joined
2165 2012-03-12 23:04:44 <userjgh> tcatm: you there?
2166 2012-03-12 23:06:29 paraipan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2167 2012-03-12 23:07:19 paraipan has joined
2168 2012-03-12 23:07:28 mologie has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2169 2012-03-12 23:08:18 graingert has joined
2170 2012-03-12 23:08:34 Tykling has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2171 2012-03-12 23:10:10 rudrigorc2 has quit ()
2172 2012-03-12 23:10:11 Z0rZ0rZ0r1 has joined
2173 2012-03-12 23:10:49 Rebroad has joined
2174 2012-03-12 23:11:35 graingert has quit (Quit: graingert)
2175 2012-03-12 23:11:51 graingert has joined
2176 2012-03-12 23:12:32 <userjgh> tcatm: could add this kind of courve when the menu is selected: geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/n800os2k8_01.jpg
2177 2012-03-12 23:12:43 Z0rZ0rZ0r has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2178 2012-03-12 23:13:31 <userjgh> tcatm: i think is god remove the sidebar border too.
2179 2012-03-12 23:13:36 <userjgh> good
2180 2012-03-12 23:13:42 <luke-jr> fwiw, hashespersec is completely broken :P
2181 2012-03-12 23:17:06 <luke-jr> it checks nHPSTimerStart which is never set
2182 2012-03-12 23:18:11 <yellowhat> i'm stuck on one testnet issue
2183 2012-03-12 23:19:11 <yellowhat> looking at block 46728 there is a very low difficulty target - 472069796 according to the rules as i interpret it it should not be allowed
2184 2012-03-12 23:19:58 <sipa> yellowhat: 0.6.0 introduces a new rule that says that if the time between two blocks is more than 20 minutes, the difficulty of the second on is the minimum difficulty
2185 2012-03-12 23:20:13 <yellowhat> yes but i have two concerns:
2186 2012-03-12 23:20:42 <yellowhat> first the time between blocks was only 821 seconds
2187 2012-03-12 23:20:57 vigilyn has left ("Leaving")
2188 2012-03-12 23:21:06 <yellowhat> second, the diff target was even below the genesis block
2189 2012-03-12 23:21:22 vigilyn has joined
2190 2012-03-12 23:21:50 <sipa> minimum testnet difficulty corresponds to 1/16 of difficulty 1
2191 2012-03-12 23:22:22 <yellowhat> i have tried to port the change from bitcoin-qt to bitcoinJ si u took the code from main.cpp:830
2192 2012-03-12 23:22:40 <yellowhat> si u -> so i
2193 2012-03-12 23:25:39 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2194 2012-03-12 23:26:34 booo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2195 2012-03-12 23:30:10 danbri has quit (Read error: No route to host)
2196 2012-03-12 23:31:59 danbri has joined
2197 2012-03-12 23:32:13 Rebroad has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2198 2012-03-12 23:32:19 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2199 2012-03-12 23:32:40 mologie has joined
2200 2012-03-12 23:35:15 iocor has joined
2201 2012-03-12 23:35:46 <sipa> gavinandresen: so, maybe use client version XXYYZZRR for X.Y.Z rcR from now on?
2202 2012-03-12 23:35:49 skeledrew has joined
2203 2012-03-12 23:36:16 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
2204 2012-03-12 23:36:25 <gavinandresen> sipa: yes, I think that'd be a good policy. Although remember, you're the version king....
2205 2012-03-12 23:36:30 <sipa> or just put the rc number in strVersion?
2206 2012-03-12 23:37:06 <sipa> where is CLIENT_VERSION used?
2207 2012-03-12 23:37:15 <yellowhat> hmm going to sleep now. if you have any input on this i would be happy. for my tests, i have basically disabled all diffculty checks on testnet for now
2208 2012-03-12 23:37:32 Cory has joined
2209 2012-03-12 23:38:17 <sipa> gavinandresen: only for wallet compatibility checking, and version number generation, it seems
2210 2012-03-12 23:38:24 <gavinandresen> sipa: yep
2211 2012-03-12 23:40:58 <sipa> either we say: encode rc number in CLIENT_VERSION, but that will imply that finals need a special encoding as well (99 for example)
2212 2012-03-12 23:41:24 <sipa> another way is having a CLIENT_RELEASE_CANDIDATE macro, that is removed before final release
2213 2012-03-12 23:41:39 <sipa> and not encode it in the client version number itself
2214 2012-03-12 23:45:57 Cory has quit (Disconnected by services)
2215 2012-03-12 23:46:25 Cory has joined
2216 2012-03-12 23:50:11 archo47 has quit ()
2217 2012-03-12 23:50:15 <sipa> gavinandresen: i think I'd prefer something like 59991 for 0.6.0rc1, 59999 for 0.6.0rc9, 60000 for 0.6.0 final, ... but that's probably confusing
2218 2012-03-12 23:50:53 pierre` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2219 2012-03-12 23:51:22 <gavinandresen> I'm ok with 600003 being both rc3 and final. And I'm ok with the "rc-ness" not being in the GUI anywhere
2220 2012-03-12 23:52:12 smtmnyz_ has joined
2221 2012-03-12 23:52:13 smtmnyz has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2222 2012-03-12 23:52:38 Samuel has joined
2223 2012-03-12 23:52:46 <Samuel> Hello
2224 2012-03-12 23:52:50 <sipa> that's probably the easiest solution
2225 2012-03-12 23:53:15 <sipa> though if we're tracking rc's anyway, it is a bit of a shame not to show it
2226 2012-03-12 23:54:53 <sipa> gavinandresen: actually, in that case, that last digit does not need to correspond to rc's, but can be incremented whenever useful
2227 2012-03-12 23:54:58 <sipa> so, ACK
2228 2012-03-12 23:59:12 dikidera has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2229 2012-03-12 23:59:30 diki has joined