1 2012-03-15 00:01:55 <Yeame> tcatm: here 188.138.99.157/stuff/qtvert16.png , could you remove sidebar border
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   3 2012-03-15 00:02:55 <Yeame> tcatm: samuel did a mockup without sidebar border and evertbody agree looks better
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   9 2012-03-15 00:17:08 <sipa> BlueMatt: the real solution to the exposure problem is only ever returning block hashes, and have utility functions to inspect them
  10 2012-03-15 00:17:28 <sipa> but that's probably too much of a change now
  11 2012-03-15 00:18:19 <BlueMatt> yea, thats way out of scope of cblockstore
  12 2012-03-15 00:18:55 <BlueMatt> and requires rearching a lot of stuff to read blocks from disk, etc
  13 2012-03-15 00:19:34 <luke-jr> sipa: or do like TxIndex :p
  14 2012-03-15 00:19:50 <[Tycho]> Hello devs/
  15 2012-03-15 00:19:52 <luke-jr> or even better, have an object that transparently fetches the data as needed
  16 2012-03-15 00:20:07 <BlueMatt> hi [Tycho]
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  19 2012-03-15 00:20:41 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: are you supporting BIP30 now ?
  20 2012-03-15 00:20:48 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: for about a week now
  21 2012-03-15 00:20:55 <[Tycho]> Amazing.
  22 2012-03-15 00:21:06 * luke-jr pokes nanotube again
  23 2012-03-15 00:21:09 <BlueMatt> uh, didnt the switchover already happen?
  24 2012-03-15 00:21:13 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: yeah :/
  25 2012-03-15 00:21:22 <BlueMatt> who wants to make a bip30-bad block to screw crappy miners?
  26 2012-03-15 00:21:24 <sipa> 20minutes ago
  27 2012-03-15 00:21:30 <luke-jr> stable finals are tagged, but nobody to upload them
  28 2012-03-15 00:21:40 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: expensive.
  29 2012-03-15 00:21:40 <[Tycho]> I have a cool new idea - I'm planning to post my TX fee policy on the site :)
  30 2012-03-15 00:21:44 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: want to buy it? :p
  31 2012-03-15 00:21:49 <BlueMatt> buy a block?
  32 2012-03-15 00:21:52 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: yeah
  33 2012-03-15 00:21:59 <BlueMatt> I think Ill pass
  34 2012-03-15 00:22:01 <Diablo-D3> a whole block?
  35 2012-03-15 00:22:15 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: has the power to do it, how about it?
  36 2012-03-15 00:22:24 <Diablo-D3> whats bip30?
  37 2012-03-15 00:22:25 <luke-jr> gmaxwell could even get paid to do it <.<
  38 2012-03-15 00:22:26 <BlueMatt> lets kill mining power ;)
  39 2012-03-15 00:22:35 <sipa> Diablo-D3: read it
  40 2012-03-15 00:22:36 <luke-jr> screw p2pool miners in the process
  41 2012-03-15 00:22:39 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: if someone would pay for such a thing...
  42 2012-03-15 00:22:40 <Diablo-D3> url?
  43 2012-03-15 00:22:43 <forsetifox> Heh.
  44 2012-03-15 00:22:51 <BlueMatt> oh, yea p2pool miners have to upgrade too...
  45 2012-03-15 00:22:51 <Diablo-D3> dude, if you screw p2pool, there goes like half the mining power
  46 2012-03-15 00:23:00 <BlueMatt> no where near half
  47 2012-03-15 00:23:08 <[Tycho]> Like 10% of deepbit ? :)
  48 2012-03-15 00:23:08 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: more relevant, they won't do the BIP 30 check on shares
  49 2012-03-15 00:23:09 <forsetifox> Last time I was on P2Pool they were only doing 300GHash.
  50 2012-03-15 00:23:19 <Diablo-D3> oh, btw, just fyi, p2pool has a perm spot in the top ten.
  51 2012-03-15 00:23:20 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: nor can they, really.
  52 2012-03-15 00:23:28 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: bias!
  53 2012-03-15 00:23:31 <BlueMatt> they are at 279GHs
  54 2012-03-15 00:23:51 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: true
  55 2012-03-15 00:23:52 <sipa> ;;google BIP 0030
  56 2012-03-15 00:23:53 <gribble> BIP 0030:2006 - Achieving ISO/IEC 20000. Management decisions ...: <http://shop.bsigroup.com/ProductDetail/?pid=000000000030143862>; BIP 0030 - Bitcoin: <https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0030>; Category:BIP - Bitcoin: <https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Category:BIP>
  57 2012-03-15 00:23:58 <luke-jr> lol
  58 2012-03-15 00:24:16 <BlueMatt> well atleast we're second
  59 2012-03-15 00:24:16 <sipa> Diablo-D3: ^
  60 2012-03-15 00:24:28 <Diablo-D3> which reminds me
  61 2012-03-15 00:24:31 <BlueMatt> heh, if you ,,(google bip 30) its right
  62 2012-03-15 00:24:32 <gribble> BIP 0030 - Bitcoin: <https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0030>; SCE - TOU-BIP Program Status: <http://www.sce.com/b-rs/large-business/event-status/tou-bip-event-status.htm>; SCE - Blocking History Chart: <http://www.sce.com/SC3/b-rs/large-business/event-status/blockinghistory.htm>
  63 2012-03-15 00:24:36 <Diablo-D3> I havent updated the list for whatever month this is
  64 2012-03-15 00:24:38 <BlueMatt> now were first :)
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  66 2012-03-15 00:25:40 <BlueMatt> forrestv: how badly would p2pool break if half its users were running on a bip30-bad chain and half werent
  67 2012-03-15 00:25:41 <BlueMatt> ?
  68 2012-03-15 00:25:49 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: sipa: gmaxwell: did you audit my BIP 16 backport yet? :p
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  70 2012-03-15 00:25:51 <BlueMatt> (and ran bip30)
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  72 2012-03-15 00:26:07 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: everyone'd get half
  73 2012-03-15 00:26:11 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: me, audit??? I didnt know C++ until like a year ago, why the hell would my audit be worth anything?
  74 2012-03-15 00:26:23 <Diablo-D3> bluematt: it wouldnt break it
  75 2012-03-15 00:26:29 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: more eyes, better
  76 2012-03-15 00:26:31 <Diablo-D3> because p2pool doesnt pay users
  77 2012-03-15 00:26:31 <sipa> you know the code
  78 2012-03-15 00:26:37 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: well obv people would be screwed, but does p2pool eg check that all users are mining on a common prev block?
  79 2012-03-15 00:26:38 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin does
  80 2012-03-15 00:26:42 <Graet> the top 9 Diablo-D3 ? :P
  81 2012-03-15 00:26:43 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: wrong
  82 2012-03-15 00:27:02 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: irrelevant
  83 2012-03-15 00:27:13 <BlueMatt> well if it did it would break worse
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  85 2012-03-15 00:27:21 <BlueMatt> my question is how badly would it break, not if it does
  86 2012-03-15 00:27:30 <Diablo-D3> wrong about what?
  87 2012-03-15 00:27:34 <Diablo-D3> p2pool _doesnt_ pay users
  88 2012-03-15 00:27:38 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: p2pool pays the same way Eligius pays, except PPLNS instead of SMPPS
  89 2012-03-15 00:27:40 <Diablo-D3> it uses gen tx spam
  90 2012-03-15 00:27:47 <sipa> forrestv: ^
  91 2012-03-15 00:27:50 <Diablo-D3> which is where luke stole his idea
  92 2012-03-15 00:27:55 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: logically, it would half the rewards
  93 2012-03-15 00:28:05 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: no u
  94 2012-03-15 00:28:11 * luke-jr stole that idea from puddinpop
  95 2012-03-15 00:28:17 <luke-jr> forrestv stole it from me if anything :p
  96 2012-03-15 00:28:25 <luke-jr> sipa: I don't think it's fixable
  97 2012-03-15 00:28:30 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: logically, if it was coded logically, but the devils are in the details...it may break worse...
  98 2012-03-15 00:28:32 <[Tycho]> Sadly I'm not evil enough to try that :)
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 100 2012-03-15 00:29:24 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: that was you who tried to send me a TX with empty vin or vout ? :)
 101 2012-03-15 00:29:28 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I think only if p2pool actually tries to prefer its own blocks
 102 2012-03-15 00:29:32 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: no
 103 2012-03-15 00:29:41 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: I wouldn't bother, since I know it wouldn't work.
 104 2012-03-15 00:29:46 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: probably, but thats why I was asking an expert on the subject ;)
 105 2012-03-15 00:30:52 <luke-jr> sipa: btw, master has a comment about removing the time-activation on BIP 16
 106 2012-03-15 00:30:56 <luke-jr> sipa: which isn't possible ever…
 107 2012-03-15 00:31:46 <sipa> luke-jr: indeed
 108 2012-03-15 00:32:38 <luke-jr> if only that idiot hadn't forked rc1 clients, it might have been :/
 109 2012-03-15 00:32:56 <BlueMatt> who, might I ask?
 110 2012-03-15 00:33:02 <luke-jr> dunno
 111 2012-03-15 00:33:10 <BlueMatt> link to comment?
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 113 2012-03-15 00:34:20 <luke-jr> ?
 114 2012-03-15 00:34:37 <BlueMatt> nvm
 115 2012-03-15 00:34:51 <luke-jr> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L1284
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 135 2012-03-15 01:11:26 <doublec> is there a bitcoin released version with bip 30 support?
 136 2012-03-15 01:11:33 <BlueMatt> no, only 0.6
 137 2012-03-15 01:11:40 <BlueMatt> dont even know if its in rc1
 138 2012-03-15 01:11:43 <BlueMatt> dont think so
 139 2012-03-15 01:11:44 <doublec> so people who only use releases are stuck?
 140 2012-03-15 01:11:45 <BlueMatt> probably in rc2
 141 2012-03-15 01:11:54 <BlueMatt> only miners really need to upgrade
 142 2012-03-15 01:12:00 <BlueMatt> but if you mine and you only use releases, yea
 143 2012-03-15 01:12:12 andytoshi has joined
 144 2012-03-15 01:12:14 <doublec> is there an announcement about needing to upgrade somewhere?
 145 2012-03-15 01:12:24 * BlueMatt hopes sipa made one
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 148 2012-03-15 01:15:18 <BlueMatt> sipa: oh, thanks for actually looking at cblockstore, btw
 149 2012-03-15 01:15:39 <BlueMatt> or reviewing some of it, at least
 150 2012-03-15 01:16:04 <Graet> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67738.0  and https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0030
 151 2012-03-15 01:16:25 <Graet> sipa also emailed most pools afaik
 152 2012-03-15 01:16:50 <Graet> i joined dev mailing list so i'd have more notice next time doublec
 153 2012-03-15 01:19:04 <doublec> no mention on bitcoin.org sadly
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 156 2012-03-15 01:22:29 <BlueMatt> when your paste of bitcoin running in dr. memory (valgrind for windows) is so big you exceed pastebin's max file size, you know bitcoin has too many errors...
 157 2012-03-15 01:22:56 <Diablo-D3> or dr memory sucks
 158 2012-03-15 01:23:02 <denisx> or both
 159 2012-03-15 01:23:09 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: got a better alternative?
 160 2012-03-15 01:23:32 <Diablo-D3> cash.
 161 2012-03-15 01:23:45 <BlueMatt> link?
 162 2012-03-15 01:23:48 <BlueMatt> thats kinda hard to google...
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 165 2012-03-15 01:29:45 <sipa> doublec: 0.5.3 is more or less released, and has bip30
 166 2012-03-15 01:31:39 <luke-jr> doublec: http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/bitcoin-0.5.3/
 167 2012-03-15 01:31:44 <luke-jr> sipa: did you push the tag btw?
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 169 2012-03-15 01:32:00 <BlueMatt> is 0.5.3 == 0.5.3rc4?
 170 2012-03-15 01:32:03 <luke-jr> yes
 171 2012-03-15 01:32:14 <luke-jr> I used a hard link on my webserver <.<
 172 2012-03-15 01:32:21 <Diablo-D3> fail
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 182 2012-03-15 01:54:53 <FaktioNN> If the value for bnProofOfWorkLimit was set to a very low number, it should create a very high target/low difficulty when compared to mainnet. Do such changes on a test chain require you to create a new genesis block, or is it possible to set the new worklimit with the same genesis block (would certainly make life easier)?
 183 2012-03-15 01:56:32 <theymos> You need a new genesis block unless you want to modify the difficulty adjustment code to make an exception for the genesis block.
 184 2012-03-15 01:56:58 <theymos> Actually, maybe not. I'm not sure whether Bitcoin actually checks the validity of the genesis block.
 185 2012-03-15 01:57:17 <BlueMatt> I think it may just compare to known hash and accept it
 186 2012-03-15 01:57:22 <BlueMatt> (its probably a checkpoint)
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 190 2012-03-15 01:59:11 <FaktioNN> Yeah, it certainly seems that way. I guess the flipside for it though is generating the new genesis block will be very quick with an extremely high starting target value.
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 195 2012-03-15 02:00:49 <forrestv> BlueMatt, if the majority of p2poolers are upgraded, all of the the unupgraded ones' shares will be orphaned. if a minority are upgraded, all of their shares will be orphaned
 196 2012-03-15 02:00:56 blumenkraft has joined
 197 2012-03-15 02:01:06 <BlueMatt> mmm, I was afraid of that
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 199 2012-03-15 02:01:16 <forrestv> p2pool has a prev_block check that is similar to bitcoin's "discourage blocks" feature
 200 2012-03-15 02:01:31 <BlueMatt> bitcoin doesnt have a discourage blocks feature...
 201 2012-03-15 02:01:49 <shaptiul> gavin has proposed block shunning
 202 2012-03-15 02:02:01 <BlueMatt> proposed, not added
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 205 2012-03-15 02:02:10 <luke-jr> forrestv: how does p2pool implement BIP 30? O.o
 206 2012-03-15 02:02:11 <forrestv> ah, okay, the proposed discourage blocks feature :P
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 208 2012-03-15 02:02:42 <luke-jr> forrestv: it requires a full node implementation…
 209 2012-03-15 02:03:20 <forrestv> luke-jr, ? p2pool will never generate duplicate transactions, and as long as the underlying bitcoind doesn't accept blocks with dups, there is no problem
 210 2012-03-15 02:03:27 h4ckm3th32nd has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 211 2012-03-15 02:03:39 <luke-jr> forrestv: and what if a p2pool user *does*?
 212 2012-03-15 02:03:48 <forrestv> does what?
 213 2012-03-15 02:03:52 <luke-jr> generate dupe txns
 214 2012-03-15 02:03:54 <[Tycho]> Nice TX http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/txlist/#184e372dc413ca4df478a9bc176723f310a9b90aa4b8042db32bb4471b505ee8
 215 2012-03-15 02:04:09 <forrestv> purposefully and maliciously, you mean?
 216 2012-03-15 02:04:12 <luke-jr> yes
 217 2012-03-15 02:04:14 <luke-jr> I suppose it's hard now, though
 218 2012-03-15 02:04:35 <forrestv> there are other attacks on p2pool that would have the same effect and would be much easier, such as just withholding block solutions
 219 2012-03-15 02:04:53 <luke-jr> true
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 222 2012-03-15 02:05:58 <forrestv> as long as a supermajority of bitcoin's hashing power implements bip 30, bip 30 shouldn't affect p2pool
 223 2012-03-15 02:06:44 <BlueMatt> well, shit...the rpc bug in bitcoin-qt.exe...well it looks like its been there since the start.  Its very easily reproduceable on anything >=0.5.0, but I cant get it to die in 0.4.1
 224 2012-03-15 02:07:20 <theymos> What RPC bug?
 225 2012-03-15 02:07:34 <BlueMatt> the random rpc crashing bug where calling rpc functions kills bitcoin-qt.exe
 226 2012-03-15 02:07:40 <BlueMatt> only on win32 and only bitcoin-qt, not bitcoind
 227 2012-03-15 02:08:20 <luke-jr> O.o
 228 2012-03-15 02:08:21 <theymos> Oh, OK. Was wondering if I was possibly affected.
 229 2012-03-15 02:08:32 <forrestv> thanks for working on that, BlueMatt :) any idea what's going on there?
 230 2012-03-15 02:08:56 <BlueMatt> no, Ive been running it through valgrind/dr. memory for a while now and I really cat find anything...
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 232 2012-03-15 02:09:53 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: stack trace?
 233 2012-03-15 02:10:00 <BlueMatt> nothing remotely useful
 234 2012-03-15 02:10:06 <luke-jr> :/
 235 2012-03-15 02:10:16 <BlueMatt> looks like it goes haywire before dying, overwriting stacks like mad
 236 2012-03-15 02:11:01 <luke-jr> does WinGDB support stepping backward?
 237 2012-03-15 02:11:01 <BlueMatt> I mean you can see from some of the errors, iirc someone saw an error in like an rpc function from the net thread or something really random like that
 238 2012-03-15 02:11:12 <BlueMatt> just stuff that should never, ever have appeared
 239 2012-03-15 02:11:37 <luke-jr> did you build with -O0 ?
 240 2012-03-15 02:11:42 <BlueMatt> yea
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 242 2012-03-15 02:12:05 <forrestv> BlueMatt, yeah, that was mine
 243 2012-03-15 02:13:32 <etotheipi_> what do you think is the best to identify whether a wallet.dat file is on testnet, mainnet, namecoin, etc?
 244 2012-03-15 02:13:50 <BlueMatt> oh, I did find the issue with qmake stripping when i dont want it to, there was a -Wl,s hiding in the link (ld -s == --strip-all)
 245 2012-03-15 02:14:05 <etotheipi_> the only thing I can find is that account names store the actual Base58 addr, and I can get it from that
 246 2012-03-15 02:14:05 <BlueMatt> so if I find the time, releasing debug symbols with the next release should be easily possible
 247 2012-03-15 02:14:29 <etotheipi_> (assuming at least one address has a name/label)
 248 2012-03-15 02:14:49 <luke-jr> http://undo-software.com/undodb_requestnoncommercial.html
 249 2012-03-15 02:14:55 <luke-jr> in case you want to use non-free sw
 250 2012-03-15 02:15:10 <luke-jr> err
 251 2012-03-15 02:15:13 <luke-jr> Linux only? O.o
 252 2012-03-15 02:15:28 <BlueMatt> thats no good :(
 253 2012-03-15 02:15:37 <BlueMatt> well, actually maybe could run it through wine, but...
 254 2012-03-15 02:15:48 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: how easy is it to reproduce?
 255 2012-03-15 02:15:55 <BlueMatt> very for me
 256 2012-03-15 02:15:59 <luke-jr> how?
 257 2012-03-15 02:16:34 <BlueMatt> I run a while [ true ]; do bitcoind -rpcuser... walletlock; done and a getwork and a getmemory pool in three terminals and it dies in seconds
 258 2012-03-15 02:16:52 <BlueMatt> (on most builds)
 259 2012-03-15 02:17:02 <luke-jr> http://wiki.jswindle.com/index.php/Winedbg
 260 2012-03-15 02:17:06 <BlueMatt> sometimes debug builds act differently, etc...but they all eventually die
 261 2012-03-15 02:17:07 <luke-jr> maybe see if you can do it in that
 262 2012-03-15 02:17:21 <BlueMatt> yea, Ive messed a bit with that, nothing particularly useful afaict...
 263 2012-03-15 02:17:22 <BlueMatt> :(
 264 2012-03-15 02:17:36 <BlueMatt> the whole killing stacks before dying just kills debuggers...
 265 2012-03-15 02:18:10 <BlueMatt> and I dont have the patience to step through one instruction at a time with winedbg (its default)
 266 2012-03-15 02:18:27 <BlueMatt> Im considering whipping out ida in the next few days and really going at it, but only if I find the time
 267 2012-03-15 02:18:39 <BlueMatt> also, I have to go find a copy of ida again...
 268 2012-03-15 02:19:31 <doublec> BlueMatt: so bitcoind crashes as well as bitcoin-qt?
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 270 2012-03-15 02:19:34 <BlueMatt> no
 271 2012-03-15 02:19:38 <BlueMatt> only bitcoin-qt.exe
 272 2012-03-15 02:20:12 <BlueMatt> its bug #820 and #640 (99% sure they are dups)
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 278 2012-03-15 02:30:17 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: TheBlueMatt opened pull request 938 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/938>
 279 2012-03-15 02:31:53 h4ckm3 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 280 2012-03-15 02:32:03 _h4ckm3 is now known as h4ckm3
 281 2012-03-15 02:33:15 <BlueMatt> forrestv: how do you usually reproduce the error?
 282 2012-03-15 02:33:23 <BlueMatt> am I correct that p2pool will kill it quickly?
 283 2012-03-15 02:33:54 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 284 2012-03-15 02:35:58 <nanotube> what did i miss, you guys pinged something about 0.5.3?
 285 2012-03-15 02:36:07 xenland has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 286 2012-03-15 02:36:08 <forrestv> BlueMatt, i don't have much experience with it.. but it happened pretty quickly with p2pool in a VM when i last tried it
 287 2012-03-15 02:36:28 <BlueMatt> you dont happen to have a list of all the rpc commands p2pool calls?
 288 2012-03-15 02:36:43 <BlueMatt> or even better a list of calls it made on a particular run?
 289 2012-03-15 02:37:18 splatster has joined
 290 2012-03-15 02:38:00 <forrestv> during init: help, getinfo, validateaddress. once running: getwork, getblock, getmemorypool
 291 2012-03-15 02:38:13 <BlueMatt> mmm, thanks
 292 2012-03-15 02:38:14 tobtc has left ()
 293 2012-03-15 02:38:35 <forrestv> +getaccountaddress during init
 294 2012-03-15 02:38:39 BitByBit has joined
 295 2012-03-15 02:38:41 <BlueMatt> ok
 296 2012-03-15 02:39:10 <forrestv> i think it's safe to assume that it's not the ones during init, though, and it happens on builds without getblock
 297 2012-03-15 02:39:24 <forrestv> so getwork/getmemorypool
 298 2012-03-15 02:39:30 <BlueMatt> alright, thanks, Ill do some more reproduceing
 299 2012-03-15 02:40:04 <forrestv> BlueMatt, a good way to reproduce it is to call them while bitcoin is downloading blocks
 300 2012-03-15 02:40:38 <sipa> nanotube: yes, can you upload 0.5.3?
 301 2012-03-15 02:40:58 pickett has joined
 302 2012-03-15 02:42:44 <nanotube> sipa: sure, got me a link to the latest distribution files?
 303 2012-03-15 02:43:52 <luke-jr> nanotube: http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/bitcoin-0.5.3/
 304 2012-03-15 02:43:55 <luke-jr> nanotube: renames from rc4
 305 2012-03-15 02:44:18 <nanotube> so no changes from the rc4 at all, other than a rename of the archives?
 306 2012-03-15 02:44:52 <BlueMatt> hopefully the folder inside the archives got renamed too?
 307 2012-03-15 02:44:53 <nanotube> (iow, if i just rename the files over on the sf FRS rather than reuploading, (and make a new shasums to match), everything will be peachy?
 308 2012-03-15 02:45:02 <nanotube> ah i guess that's a good point ;)
 309 2012-03-15 02:45:03 <luke-jr> nanotube: right
 310 2012-03-15 02:45:12 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: oops, nope
 311 2012-03-15 02:45:17 <luke-jr> I can do that I guess
 312 2012-03-15 02:45:47 winterblack has joined
 313 2012-03-15 02:46:37 <nanotube> and i see we got the osx build too eh.
 314 2012-03-15 02:47:48 <BlueMatt> before I forget ^
 315 2012-03-15 02:47:59 shaptiul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 316 2012-03-15 02:47:59 <nanotube> heh
 317 2012-03-15 02:48:13 <BlueMatt> usually takes a day or two before that happens...
 318 2012-03-15 02:49:18 * BlueMatt has a hunch he may be narrowing down the rpc issue...
 319 2012-03-15 02:49:51 <nanotube> BlueMatt: hey btw, so i know how to verify gitian sigs for the win .zip, and the linux tgz. how would i do it for the .exe and the .dmg?
 320 2012-03-15 02:49:51 BitByBit has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com ))
 321 2012-03-15 02:50:12 <luke-jr> nanotube: afaik the dmg isn't gitian
 322 2012-03-15 02:50:16 <BlueMatt> there is no such thing as gitian zips, only the contents...
 323 2012-03-15 02:50:23 <BlueMatt> also, yea the mac one isnt done using gitian
 324 2012-03-15 02:50:24 shaptiul has joined
 325 2012-03-15 02:50:36 bitbybit has joined
 326 2012-03-15 02:50:39 <BlueMatt> you have to extract the contents in the way that gitian produces them to build/out in gitian-builder
 327 2012-03-15 02:50:48 <nanotube> BlueMatt: right, i mean, the zip and the tgz i can extract
 328 2012-03-15 02:50:57 <BlueMatt> the win32-setup.exe is one file in that folder
 329 2012-03-15 02:50:59 bitbybit has quit (Client Quit)
 330 2012-03-15 02:51:01 <nanotube> but how do i verify the exe and dmg?
 331 2012-03-15 02:51:01 <BlueMatt> and is removed before making the zip
 332 2012-03-15 02:51:07 <BlueMatt> you cant verify the dmg...
 333 2012-03-15 02:51:15 <nanotube> ok, and exe? just shove it into build/out?
 334 2012-03-15 02:51:19 <nanotube> and it'll work?
 335 2012-03-15 02:51:27 <luke-jr> right
 336 2012-03-15 02:51:35 <luke-jr> nanotube: exe and dmg are identical byte for byte, so you can upload them first :p
 337 2012-03-15 02:51:52 <luke-jr> tar.gz upload done…
 338 2012-03-15 02:51:54 <sipa> heh?
 339 2012-03-15 02:52:03 <BlueMatt> exe shouldnt be identical though
 340 2012-03-15 02:52:09 <BlueMatt> doesnt exe say version number in it?
 341 2012-03-15 02:52:21 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it doesn't say rc
 342 2012-03-15 02:52:27 <BlueMatt> oh, ok
 343 2012-03-15 02:52:28 <sipa> yes, but rcs do not have version number
 344 2012-03-15 02:52:56 <BlueMatt> nanotube: file hierarchy (and hashes, but gitian checks that) should match that which is found in the bitcoin-build.assert (eg https://github.com/bitcoin/gitian.sigs/blob/master/0.5.3rc4-win32/bluematt/bitcoin-build.assert )
 345 2012-03-15 02:53:04 <sipa> Starting from 0.6.0rc3, they do, by the way (somewhat)
 346 2012-03-15 02:53:06 <BlueMatt> so win32-setup.exe is in top level
 347 2012-03-15 02:53:24 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it'd be nice if the gitian-win32 did the final zip btw :p
 348 2012-03-15 02:53:26 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Light travels faster then sound, which is why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak)
 349 2012-03-15 02:53:34 <luke-jr> but then I guess it'd impede repacking like this
 350 2012-03-15 02:53:37 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: there are reasons we dont, but its a longer story
 351 2012-03-15 02:53:51 <BlueMatt> (gitian-downloader reasons)
 352 2012-03-15 02:53:53 <sipa> meh, my build script does everything
 353 2012-03-15 02:54:03 <BlueMatt> oh, shit, I need to make the setup an optional...
 354 2012-03-15 02:54:09 * BlueMatt needs a bitcoin todo list...
 355 2012-03-15 02:54:37 <luke-jr> nanotube: http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/bitcoin-0.5.3/ updated correctly
 356 2012-03-15 02:54:54 <BlueMatt> hah, Ive found the problem...now I just have to find the problem...
 357 2012-03-15 02:55:55 <nanotube> hm, there appears to be no 0.5.3 in the gitian.sigs repo... ?
 358 2012-03-15 02:56:02 <BlueMatt> its 0.5.3rc4
 359 2012-03-15 02:56:19 <BlueMatt> since the files are the same, no on bothered rebuilding
 360 2012-03-15 02:56:23 <nanotube> ah ic
 361 2012-03-15 02:56:52 Cablesaurus has joined
 362 2012-03-15 02:56:52 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
 363 2012-03-15 02:56:52 Cablesaurus has joined
 364 2012-03-15 02:57:47 <BlueMatt> who knows a lot about C++ exceptions?
 365 2012-03-15 02:57:55 <BlueMatt> (thats the problem with the win32 rpc)
 366 2012-03-15 02:57:58 <nanotube> so the dmg, anyone care to confirm the checksum of of the dmg? 90690d3838fc232124dcbb53c915ebbb613b1bba0a8a3e1d30a888af8787dc49 ? (since it appears that that's the only way to check it?
 367 2012-03-15 02:58:09 <BlueMatt> throw JSONRPCError is doing the funkyness
 368 2012-03-15 02:58:13 <nanotube> luke-jr: thanks redownloading
 369 2012-03-15 02:58:19 <BlueMatt> nanotube: have to ask gavin for that...
 370 2012-03-15 02:59:33 <luke-jr> nanotube: Gavin personally uploaded the DMG to SourceForge as rc4; I just downloaded it from there
 371 2012-03-15 03:00:04 <nanotube> ah ok.
 372 2012-03-15 03:00:09 * BlueMatt needs to back and refigure out how he does ppa uploads again...
 373 2012-03-15 03:00:39 <BlueMatt> sipa: have you pushed the tag yet?
 374 2012-03-15 03:01:07 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: you should make the debs gitian-built too
 375 2012-03-15 03:01:09 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: why did you update the debian change log again???
 376 2012-03-15 03:01:22 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: yea...thats a HUGE pita...
 377 2012-03-15 03:01:40 <BlueMatt> because I have no control of the build process
 378 2012-03-15 03:01:47 <BlueMatt> it has to be in a script that launchpad runs in a vm
 379 2012-03-15 03:01:49 <luke-jr> o
 380 2012-03-15 03:01:50 <BlueMatt> (I think(
 381 2012-03-15 03:01:51 <BlueMatt> )
 382 2012-03-15 03:02:05 <BlueMatt> I know it has to be run on their servers, Im pretty sure they are vms
 383 2012-03-15 03:02:58 <luke-jr> lame
 384 2012-03-15 03:03:09 <BlueMatt> kinda, but it forces sane build procedures
 385 2012-03-15 03:03:09 <Someguy123> hey where's gavin? the faucet is missing its donation address
 386 2012-03-15 03:03:13 <luke-jr> tcatm: ping
 387 2012-03-15 03:03:15 <Someguy123> https://freebitcoins.appspot.com/
 388 2012-03-15 03:03:28 <BlueMatt> arg, wtf does google think my ip is french (again)
 389 2012-03-15 03:03:32 h4ckm3 has quit (Disconnected by services)
 390 2012-03-15 03:03:48 _h4ckm3 has joined
 391 2012-03-15 03:03:51 <doublec> BlueMatt: is the exception handled anywhere or does it not reach that point?
 392 2012-03-15 03:04:09 <BlueMatt> doublec: havent done any research yet, I just finally narrowed it down to exceptions
 393 2012-03-15 03:04:30 <BlueMatt> and now Im distracted doing ppa uploads...
 394 2012-03-15 03:04:52 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
 395 2012-03-15 03:04:52 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: seriously, stop changing the debian changelog on releases...how many times have I said that?
 396 2012-03-15 03:05:51 <BlueMatt> also, why is the 0.5.3 entry marked jan 10?
 397 2012-03-15 03:07:36 Yeame has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 398 2012-03-15 03:11:22 <nanotube> BlueMatt: ok.... so here's the thing. i extracted the .zip into build/out/ (which got placed into 'bitcoin-0.5.3-win32' subdirectory.
 399 2012-03-15 03:11:41 <nanotube> then i copied in the setup.exe, and ran ./bin/gverify ....
 400 2012-03-15 03:11:46 <BlueMatt> gotta move everything up a folder
 401 2012-03-15 03:11:49 <sipa> BlueMatt, luke-jr: pusahed
 402 2012-03-15 03:11:51 <BlueMatt> (it shouldnt be in any subdir)
 403 2012-03-15 03:11:53 <nanotube> ah
 404 2012-03-15 03:11:58 <nanotube> let's try
 405 2012-03-15 03:13:44 <sipa> BlueMatt: is RPC broken on bitcoin-qt in general, or just on win32?
 406 2012-03-15 03:13:56 <BlueMatt> win32
 407 2012-03-15 03:14:30 <nanotube> BlueMatt: ok, so i moved everything up a dir, so that the -qt.exe and everything is in build/out
 408 2012-03-15 03:14:30 _h4ckm3 is now known as h4ckm3
 409 2012-03-15 03:14:40 <nanotube> i ran bin/gverify, and it said all a-ok
 410 2012-03-15 03:15:04 <nanotube> then... i went and modified the files (echo "bla" >> bitcoin-0.5.3-win32-setup.exe)
 411 2012-03-15 03:15:07 <nanotube> ran gverify again...
 412 2012-03-15 03:15:11 <nanotube> and it said everything a-ok
 413 2012-03-15 03:15:25 <nanotube> which leads me to suspect that something isn't right :)
 414 2012-03-15 03:16:16 <nanotube> so i guess the question is, what exactly is gverify actually checking?
 415 2012-03-15 03:17:41 <BlueMatt> hmm, it should be checking the files
 416 2012-03-15 03:17:50 <BlueMatt> maybe its only checking the sigs for you...
 417 2012-03-15 03:17:56 <BlueMatt> change one of the sigs and see what happens?
 418 2012-03-15 03:18:33 <nanotube> well, to 'check the sig' one must look at both the signature and the file... you can't 'check the sig' without referring to the file that was signed...
 419 2012-03-15 03:18:48 <BlueMatt> checks the sigs against each other I mean
 420 2012-03-15 03:19:11 <BlueMatt> change one of the hashes in a sig and see
 421 2012-03-15 03:19:14 <BlueMatt> and change a sig and see
 422 2012-03-15 03:19:39 <nanotube> ok, you mean the bitcoin-build.assert file?
 423 2012-03-15 03:19:43 <BlueMatt> yea
 424 2012-03-15 03:20:32 <nanotube> ok, changed the .assert, it said 'bad signature'. good
 425 2012-03-15 03:20:46 SomeoneWeird_ has joined
 426 2012-03-15 03:20:48 <nanotube> so it checks that your .assert.sig matches the .assert... but doesn't check the actual file hashes?
 427 2012-03-15 03:20:54 <nanotube> that seems rather ... useless.
 428 2012-03-15 03:21:13 SomeoneWeird_ has quit (Changing host)
 429 2012-03-15 03:21:13 SomeoneWeird_ has joined
 430 2012-03-15 03:21:14 <BlueMatt> hmm, thats odd I know I checked that it did a few days ago...
 431 2012-03-15 03:21:29 MrTiggr has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 432 2012-03-15 03:21:30 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 433 2012-03-15 03:21:44 <BlueMatt> one sec
 434 2012-03-15 03:21:47 SomeoneWeird has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 435 2012-03-15 03:21:47 <nanotube> ok
 436 2012-03-15 03:22:05 <sipa> devrandom: what gverify supposed to check exactly?
 437 2012-03-15 03:22:23 barmstrong has joined
 438 2012-03-15 03:22:43 <nanotube> well, at worst, i can just run sha256sum -c bitcoin-build.assert :)
 439 2012-03-15 03:22:59 <nanotube> after i know that the sigs match...
 440 2012-03-15 03:24:29 <nanotube> yea that works as a poor-man's solution :) until gverify starts verifying.
 441 2012-03-15 03:24:31 <BlueMatt> well sort of, you have to modify the files abit, but yea
 442 2012-03-15 03:24:38 <nanotube> nah, no need to modify
 443 2012-03-15 03:24:41 <nanotube> just cd to build/out
 444 2012-03-15 03:24:54 <nanotube> then sha256sum -c ../path/to/the/assertfile
 445 2012-03-15 03:24:55 <BlueMatt> that file has like deb shasums in it too...
 446 2012-03-15 03:25:00 <nanotube> yea, but i can ignore missing files
 447 2012-03-15 03:25:12 <BlueMatt> and I thought it had headers...
 448 2012-03-15 03:25:14 <BlueMatt> ok, well whatever
 449 2012-03-15 03:25:17 <nanotube> at the end it tells me a summary, how many files matched, how many missing.
 450 2012-03-15 03:25:19 <nanotube> yes it has headers
 451 2012-03-15 03:25:22 pickett has joined
 452 2012-03-15 03:25:34 <nanotube> but sha256sum is smart enough to ignore lines that don't look like <shasum> <filename>
 453 2012-03-15 03:25:35 <BlueMatt> oh, I guess shasum ignores crap it doesnt get
 454 2012-03-15 03:25:37 <BlueMatt> well then ok
 455 2012-03-15 03:25:39 <nanotube> yep
 456 2012-03-15 03:25:50 <nanotube> ok, i'll do that for now, until devrandom comes back and tells us about gverify :)
 457 2012-03-15 03:25:59 <BlueMatt> ppa building, well uploaded...will build soon
 458 2012-03-15 03:26:00 <nanotube> or modifies it to do it :)
 459 2012-03-15 03:26:23 <BlueMatt> gitian-downloader will do the checks...but it may not be so friendly to hack the zips to downloader-friendly form
 460 2012-03-15 03:27:24 <BlueMatt> arg, sometimes I really hate launchpad..."Will build in 2 hours"
 461 2012-03-15 03:27:26 <BlueMatt> wtf? seriously?
 462 2012-03-15 03:27:31 <BlueMatt> its not like you are that overloaded
 463 2012-03-15 03:27:45 <BlueMatt> and the fact that its not a queue, its just a 2 hour delay tells me you are just being a dick about it...
 464 2012-03-15 03:28:52 [7] has quit (Disconnected by services)
 465 2012-03-15 03:29:25 TheSeven has joined
 466 2012-03-15 03:29:54 userljh has joined
 467 2012-03-15 03:30:36 <nanotube> BlueMatt: so... just build your own debs and shove them up in an apt repo.
 468 2012-03-15 03:30:41 sgornick has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 469 2012-03-15 03:30:47 <nanotube> (as a bonus, you control the build process, so you can make it deterministic :) )
 470 2012-03-15 03:30:55 <BlueMatt> meh, but then I have to host it
 471 2012-03-15 03:31:15 <BlueMatt> and you lose the simplicity of telling people to "sudo apt-add-repository ppa:bitcoin/bitcoin" and have to tell them a url and pgp key...
 472 2012-03-15 03:33:42 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I've changed it exactly 0 times since you said it first
 473 2012-03-15 03:33:56 <BlueMatt> mmm, I didnt see the timestamp as jan6...
 474 2012-03-15 03:34:00 <BlueMatt> but whatever
 475 2012-03-15 03:34:22 booo has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 476 2012-03-15 03:34:37 <luke-jr> [23:05:21] <BlueMatt> also, why is the 0.5.3 entry marked jan 10? <-- where?
 477 2012-03-15 03:34:46 <BlueMatt> in contrib/debian/changelog
 478 2012-03-15 03:35:00 <nanotube> BlueMatt: you don't have to host it, just use sf.net frs. set up a project "bitcoin-ppa", and rsync your repo over to a dir on the frs. (i do that for another project i run)
 479 2012-03-15 03:35:17 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: probably because that's when I added it
 480 2012-03-15 03:35:30 <nanotube> yes, the instructions to add repository expand to two commands. "apt-add-repository deb repo line" and "apt-key add line"
 481 2012-03-15 03:35:35 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: mmm, whatever
 482 2012-03-15 03:35:37 <nanotube> but that's pretty minor.
 483 2012-03-15 03:36:00 <BlueMatt> nanotube: ah, well whatever, its simple enough to do it on launchpad and as a bonus its already set up :)
 484 2012-03-15 03:36:05 <nanotube> just fyi - if you do decide to go that way :)
 485 2012-03-15 03:36:30 <nanotube> yea if it works currently, that's fine.
 486 2012-03-15 03:36:43 <nanotube> just introduces an extra party to trust (namely, launchpad)
 487 2012-03-15 03:36:57 <sipa> people need to trust their OS anyway
 488 2012-03-15 03:37:10 <BlueMatt> launchpad == canonical == ubuntu...
 489 2012-03-15 03:37:14 <luke-jr> nanotube: how goes upload?
 490 2012-03-15 03:37:15 <sipa> and we do too... gitian builds are ubuntu
 491 2012-03-15 03:38:01 <nanotube> sipa: BlueMatt: compromising a single repo on launchpad to build bogus bitcoin binaries is a lot less discoverable than compromising the whole ubuntu OS so that it builds bogus bitcoin binaries. :)
 492 2012-03-15 03:38:13 <BlueMatt> true...
 493 2012-03-15 03:38:42 <nanotube> nobody sees what launchpad does behind the scenes. everyone sees what his os does (in aggregate :) )
 494 2012-03-15 03:38:45 <sipa> nanotube: it would be a very interesting and potentially profitable attack, still!
 495 2012-03-15 03:39:11 * BlueMatt agrees, its a great idea lets do it, now who wants to volunteer?
 496 2012-03-15 03:39:12 * luke-jr pokes nanotube
 497 2012-03-15 03:39:18 <nanotube> haha true, but to do that you'd have to compromise GCC or some such, and source code to all the standard packages is available. compromising launchpad can be completely secret.
 498 2012-03-15 03:39:33 <nanotube> luke-jr: yea working on it :) just got caught up with some conversations. hehe
 499 2012-03-15 03:39:41 <nanotube> anyway, just for your consideration, BlueMatt :D
 500 2012-03-15 03:39:48 <BlueMatt> compromising launchpad == compromising the build machines that actually build ubuntu packages...
 501 2012-03-15 03:40:03 <BlueMatt> well ~=
 502 2012-03-15 03:40:22 <BlueMatt> (AFAICT)
 503 2012-03-15 03:40:22 <sipa> BlueMatt: what if we'd just agree with all devs to introduce unsuspicious code in complex commits that steal people's coins disguised as "corrupted wallets" ?
 504 2012-03-15 03:40:39 <nanotube> BlueMatt: 'compromising' can also include "govt agency leaning on canonical". not so easy to do for the actual OS which includes source code.
 505 2012-03-15 03:40:39 <BlueMatt> sipa: lets do it
 506 2012-03-15 03:40:49 <nanotube> haha
 507 2012-03-15 03:40:58 <sipa> BlueMatt: we'll split based on number of contributed lines of code
 508 2012-03-15 03:41:21 <BlueMatt> nanotube: the launchpad bitcoin repo contains source code in the exact same way that ubuntu does for any other package, btw
 509 2012-03-15 03:41:32 <BlueMatt> sipa: nice
 510 2012-03-15 03:42:55 <nanotube> BlueMatt: even code to the launchpad website that does the deb building?
 511 2012-03-15 03:43:52 <luke-jr> sipa: not a fair measurement. your commits are smaller, but more valuable per line IMO
 512 2012-03-15 03:44:02 <BlueMatt> no, but that is open elsewhere, note that the code that launchpad uses to build is the same code (and same servers, or mirror servers) that does regular deb builds of eg gcc for ubuntu
 513 2012-03-15 03:44:09 <sipa> luke-jr: don't worry, i got plenty ;)
 514 2012-03-15 03:44:39 <BlueMatt> sipa: can we do the counting after cblockstore?
 515 2012-03-15 03:44:43 <luke-jr> lol
 516 2012-03-15 03:44:47 <luke-jr> I was about to mention that
 517 2012-03-15 03:45:10 <sipa> let's not encourage you to make it even more breaking :)
 518 2012-03-15 03:45:19 <BlueMatt> arg winedbg sucks...
 519 2012-03-15 03:45:22 <BlueMatt> heh
 520 2012-03-15 03:45:29 <sipa> (breaking in the sense of breaking other patches)
 521 2012-03-15 03:50:37 <BlueMatt> I take that back winedbg is GREAT, it doesnt debug the process you are running, it debugs something else, what I have nfc???
 522 2012-03-15 03:50:45 <BlueMatt> I think it may be debugging itself...or something?
 523 2012-03-15 03:51:06 <sipa> lol
 524 2012-03-15 03:51:42 <BlueMatt> if you call the ni "execute next assembly instruction"  command like 4 times, it continues to run the entire program without stopping, wtf???
 525 2012-03-15 03:52:24 <sipa> it seems to try to mimic windows?
 526 2012-03-15 03:52:38 <BlueMatt> I have nfc what winedbg is doing
 527 2012-03-15 03:52:57 <BlueMatt> mimicing the average code quality of windows apps maybe
 528 2012-03-15 03:52:59 <sipa> cool i didn't know near-field communication could do that
 529 2012-03-15 03:53:06 <forsetifox> Heh.
 530 2012-03-15 03:53:12 * sipa -> bed
 531 2012-03-15 03:53:16 <BlueMatt> gnight
 532 2012-03-15 03:55:29 userljh has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 533 2012-03-15 03:55:50 <BlueMatt> man winedbg, section Bugs-> "A lot."
 534 2012-03-15 03:56:12 <BlueMatt> fuck you
 535 2012-03-15 03:56:51 <luke-jr> lol
 536 2012-03-15 03:57:23 <luke-jr> try with --gdb?
 537 2012-03-15 03:57:43 <BlueMatt> tried that, insta-crash
 538 2012-03-15 03:58:02 <BlueMatt> "Internal crash at..."
 539 2012-03-15 04:01:34 <sipa> +
 540 2012-03-15 04:01:44 da2ce7 has joined
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 542 2012-03-15 04:02:02 da2ce7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 543 2012-03-15 04:04:08 <nanotube> ok, 0.5.3 is up.
 544 2012-03-15 04:04:26 <BlueMatt> nice
 545 2012-03-15 04:05:28 <luke-jr> tcatm: ping
 546 2012-03-15 04:06:49 <forsetifox> luke-jr: Should I just keep using the version you gave me to test since I can't go back to 0.5.3 without making another wallet?
 547 2012-03-15 04:07:15 <luke-jr> forsetifox: should be fine… I'd keep updating until 0.6.0 comes out tho
 548 2012-03-15 04:07:17 <sipa> forsetifox: are you running 0.6.0rc3?
 549 2012-03-15 04:07:27 <forsetifox> Let me check.
 550 2012-03-15 04:07:33 <BlueMatt> forsetifox: meh, just run 0.6.0rc3
 551 2012-03-15 04:07:53 <sipa> It's listed as 0.6.0.3 in the program
 552 2012-03-15 04:08:05 jjjrmy-m has joined
 553 2012-03-15 04:08:09 <forsetifox> It says "0.6.0-beta".
 554 2012-03-15 04:08:17 <sipa> In that case, no.
 555 2012-03-15 04:08:21 <jjjrmy-m> Does the guy who made instawallet one here?
 556 2012-03-15 04:08:30 <jjjrmy-m> *on
 557 2012-03-15 04:08:38 <sipa> jjjrmy-m: He's been here occasionally.
 558 2012-03-15 04:08:39 <sipa> jav
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 560 2012-03-15 04:10:18 * BlueMatt misses having a desktop with ida convenient...
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 576 2012-03-15 04:52:33 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: TheBlueMatt reopened pull request 938 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/938>
 577 2012-03-15 04:55:11 <devrandom> sipa: gverify checks that all sigs are valid and that they have compatible assertions - i.e same output files
 578 2012-03-15 04:56:06 gfinn has joined
 579 2012-03-15 05:01:46 <devrandom> sipa: it doesn't check the actual files.  It's only meant for builders, which supposedly generated their own assertion and their own files.  It's not a facility for checking others' builds.
 580 2012-03-15 05:01:52 <devrandom> nanotube: ^^
 581 2012-03-15 05:02:49 <nanotube> devrandom: heh i see. well... maybe a feature request? when we run with some argument like '-c', make it check the shasums on all files in build/out?
 582 2012-03-15 05:03:03 <devrandom> the downloader checks actual files.  If you need a builder-friendly utility, let me know and I'll look into it.
 583 2012-03-15 05:03:22 <nanotube> and throw out big scary warnings if (a) any of the sums don't match, or (b) any of the files in build/out are not present in assertion list.
 584 2012-03-15 05:03:30 <devrandom> nanotube: ok, that sounds straightforward.
 585 2012-03-15 05:03:52 <nanotube> cool :)
 586 2012-03-15 05:04:37 <devrandom> (but not tonight)
 587 2012-03-15 05:05:28 <nanotube> yea no hurry
 588 2012-03-15 05:05:46 <nanotube> i've already uploaded the 0.5.3 release today :)
 589 2012-03-15 05:06:20 <nanotube> just stick it on your todo list with some reasonable priority :D and thanks for the great work on gitian ;)
 590 2012-03-15 05:06:55 SomeoneWeird has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 591 2012-03-15 05:07:00 <devrandom> glad it's catching on :)
 592 2012-03-15 05:07:05 SomeoneWeird has joined
 593 2012-03-15 05:08:00 <nanotube> :)
 594 2012-03-15 05:08:30 <luke-jr> devrandom: if only it worked with a simple chroot…
 595 2012-03-15 05:09:52 <devrandom> luke-jr: I was thinking of implementing lxc support.  would that help?
 596 2012-03-15 05:10:05 <luke-jr> don't see any reason it should require LXC :P
 597 2012-03-15 05:10:12 <luke-jr> it's just a simple compile after all
 598 2012-03-15 05:10:18 <luke-jr> but sure
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 600 2012-03-15 05:11:12 <devrandom> some compilation scenarios might require root, and I'm worried about malicious software breaking out of chroot if they have root
 601 2012-03-15 05:11:31 <devrandom> I'd like gitian to work as a general build environment for untrusted software
 602 2012-03-15 05:12:43 * luke-jr can't see any reason they'd need root.
 603 2012-03-15 05:12:52 <luke-jr> Gentoo does all its building as a non-root user
 604 2012-03-15 05:13:13 <phantomcircuit> portage
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 623 2012-03-15 06:24:17 <[Tycho]> Who created a patch to prevent losing subcent change amounts as fees ?
 624 2012-03-15 06:24:29 Cablesaurus has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 625 2012-03-15 06:26:00 zeiris has joined
 626 2012-03-15 06:26:03 <chwergy> I don't know but I just found out about it
 627 2012-03-15 06:27:42 <Diablo-D3> I AM LOSING MONEYS?!
 628 2012-03-15 06:28:02 <Diablo-D3> WHAT SICK MAN MAKES ME LOSE MONEYS
 629 2012-03-15 06:28:13 * Diablo-D3 EATS SANDVICH, OM NOM NOM NOM
 630 2012-03-15 06:28:13 <forsetifox> You're losing monkeys?
 631 2012-03-15 06:28:24 <Diablo-D3> actually, I am eating a sandvich
 632 2012-03-15 06:28:25 terry has joined
 633 2012-03-15 06:29:00 <forsetifox> Did it break Deepbit, Tycho?
 634 2012-03-15 06:29:02 <copumpkin> I love sandvichen
 635 2012-03-15 06:29:04 <Diablo-D3> two slices of kayam balongna, two slices of white american, two sandvich long cut pickles, horshradish mustard
 636 2012-03-15 06:29:16 <[Tycho]> forsetifox: no.
 637 2012-03-15 06:29:39 <jm9000> Bologna and american? wtf?
 638 2012-03-15 06:29:51 <forsetifox> Good. I've been with your pool for a while and I've never seen so low of rewards on it for the last 12 hours. =/
 639 2012-03-15 06:30:28 <[Tycho]> forsetifox: bad luck happens sometimes.
 640 2012-03-15 06:30:36 <[Tycho]> Should average out anyway.
 641 2012-03-15 06:30:40 <forsetifox> It's never been this bad. O.O
 642 2012-03-15 06:30:57 <[Tycho]> No, I think it was already.
 643 2012-03-15 06:31:03 <jm9000> I see Kayam bologna is polish. Probably better than that American garbage.
 644 2012-03-15 06:31:06 <tcatm> luke-jr: pong
 645 2012-03-15 06:31:43 <[Tycho]> forsetifox: yesterday there was already 1 hour without any block in the chain, so bad luck happens with anything :)
 646 2012-03-15 06:32:07 <forsetifox> There's a bunch on there. Like 3-4 of them in the last 12 hours.
 647 2012-03-15 06:32:26 <[Tycho]> 3-4 of what ?
 648 2012-03-15 06:32:38 <forsetifox> More than 1 hour blocks.
 649 2012-03-15 06:32:59 <[Tycho]> Hmm, P2SH is at 45.5% atm... Would be funny to support it at 49.9% :)
 650 2012-03-15 06:33:16 <[Tycho]> forsetifox: I'm talking about the entire network.
 651 2012-03-15 06:33:19 <forsetifox> Yeah. I don't think it's ever been that high.
 652 2012-03-15 06:33:24 <forsetifox> Oh.
 653 2012-03-15 06:33:30 <forsetifox> Everyone is having bad luck?
 654 2012-03-15 06:33:37 <[Tycho]> forsetifox: sometimes.
 655 2012-03-15 06:33:58 <forsetifox> When stevie (was his name?) had the luck graphs the bad and good luck just cycled.
 656 2012-03-15 06:34:11 h4ckm3 has quit (Quit: changing servers)
 657 2012-03-15 06:34:21 <forsetifox> Looked like a very long sine wave on your pool and a normal sine wave on everyone elses.
 658 2012-03-15 06:34:31 <[Tycho]> There was one very nice site with pool luck graphs, but it's gone :(
 659 2012-03-15 06:34:43 <forsetifox> Yeah. Stevie I think was his name.
 660 2012-03-15 06:34:48 h4ckm3 has joined
 661 2012-03-15 06:34:49 <forsetifox> He disappeared.
 662 2012-03-15 06:34:49 <[Tycho]> I don't think so.
 663 2012-03-15 06:35:11 <forsetifox> Someone in btcguild probably knows who I'm talking about.
 664 2012-03-15 06:35:15 <[Tycho]> Going down atm: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-10k.png
 665 2012-03-15 06:35:28 <[Tycho]> The url was something like l0ss.net
 666 2012-03-15 06:35:53 <forsetifox> Yeah.
 667 2012-03-15 06:35:58 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Quit: changing servers)
 668 2012-03-15 06:36:30 <chwergy> is there a limit to the size of the blockchain?
 669 2012-03-15 06:36:50 <forsetifox> Don't think so.
 670 2012-03-15 06:36:55 <chwergy> o.o
 671 2012-03-15 06:36:56 <forsetifox> It's at over a gig now.
 672 2012-03-15 06:37:00 phantomfakeBNC has joined
 673 2012-03-15 06:37:09 <chwergy> thats quite the flaw
 674 2012-03-15 06:37:33 <forsetifox> It's necessary for bitcoin to work. Some other systems have shrunk theirs.
 675 2012-03-15 06:37:51 <chwergy> yeah it is... thats why it is a flaw.
 676 2012-03-15 06:38:12 <forsetifox> Do you even know what the block chain does?
 677 2012-03-15 06:38:53 <chwergy> Do you even know how much sense your idioms make?
 678 2012-03-15 06:39:05 <forsetifox> Do you always ask a question with a question? =P
 679 2012-03-15 06:39:19 <chwergy> Yes
 680 2012-03-15 06:39:45 <forsetifox> You should only judge something once you have all the data.
 681 2012-03-15 06:39:49 <chwergy> But I'm not socrates, so I don't always answer with a question.
 682 2012-03-15 06:40:03 <chwergy> well YOU don't even have all the data
 683 2012-03-15 06:40:16 <chwergy> I know what the block chain does
 684 2012-03-15 06:40:22 <chwergy> its not difficult to figure out
 685 2012-03-15 06:40:59 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Client Quit)
 686 2012-03-15 06:41:03 <chwergy> just saying.... for widespread adoption... it's quite the hurdle
 687 2012-03-15 06:41:17 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 688 2012-03-15 06:41:28 <forsetifox> It's minorly inconvenient once. When you install the bitcoin client.
 689 2012-03-15 06:41:32 <chwergy> though could have servers do all the heavy lifting with the block chain..
 690 2012-03-15 06:41:43 phantomfakeBNC has joined
 691 2012-03-15 06:41:57 <chwergy> but if it has no limit... it becomes an HDD size issue
 692 2012-03-15 06:42:23 dvide has joined
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 694 2012-03-15 06:42:33 <forsetifox> And HD's don't double each year, right?
 695 2012-03-15 06:42:48 <chwergy> theres a limit to that too.
 696 2012-03-15 06:43:05 <chwergy> Correction: theres a limit to that
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 698 2012-03-15 06:43:18 <chwergy> basically its mirroring the oil crisis
 699 2012-03-15 06:43:18 phantomfakeBNC has joined
 700 2012-03-15 06:43:41 <chwergy> we are running a infinite system on a finite resource base
 701 2012-03-15 06:43:54 h4ckm3 has joined
 702 2012-03-15 06:43:58 <forsetifox> Oh Odin. You've been alive 20 years and think you know everything?
 703 2012-03-15 06:44:09 <forsetifox> Guessing your age since you're in school still. =P
 704 2012-03-15 06:44:44 <[Tycho]> chwergy: you are using not the right client for widespread adoption
 705 2012-03-15 06:44:45 <Diablo-D3> I KNOW ALL
 706 2012-03-15 06:44:51 <Diablo-D3> I HAVE BEEN AROUND SINCE DAWN OF TIME
 707 2012-03-15 06:44:53 <forsetifox> Oh shush dark one.
 708 2012-03-15 06:44:59 <Diablo-D3> GOD WAS LIKE, DUDE, TAKE MY BEER, WATCH THIS
 709 2012-03-15 06:45:01 <chwergy> trying to understand this thing. If you don't have something to add; it doesn't give you a license to mock me.
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 713 2012-03-15 06:45:35 <chwergy> kwaitwhat tycho?
 714 2012-03-15 06:45:40 <forsetifox> You compared the blockchain to the oil crisis. What else am I gonna think?
 715 2012-03-15 06:45:53 <chwergy> erm. its a valid comparison
 716 2012-03-15 06:46:32 <Habbie> it's not - harddisk space is not something you consume irrevocably
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 718 2012-03-15 06:46:39 <Habbie> although OS growth sometimes looks that way ;)
 719 2012-03-15 06:46:40 <Diablo-D3> we import our bitcoins from foreign countries?!
 720 2012-03-15 06:46:43 h4ckm3th32nd is now known as h4ckm3
 721 2012-03-15 06:46:48 * Diablo-D3 invades saudi arabia!
 722 2012-03-15 06:47:04 <Diablo-D3> FUCK YEAH SEAKING!
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 724 2012-03-15 06:47:24 <jm9000> I prefer Mudkips
 725 2012-03-15 06:47:53 <Diablo-D3> I dont get pokemon
 726 2012-03-15 06:47:58 <chwergy> I'm saying HDD wont keep doubling in size
 727 2012-03-15 06:48:02 <Diablo-D3> it came to the US when I was like in 8th grade
 728 2012-03-15 06:48:08 phantomfakeBNC has joined
 729 2012-03-15 06:48:13 <Joric> what's the difference between a raven and a writting desk... erm... bitcoin blockchain and the oil crisis?
 730 2012-03-15 06:48:14 <Diablo-D3> like 2 years ago I finally got around to playing one
 731 2012-03-15 06:48:40 <Diablo-D3> I beat it in 2 days
 732 2012-03-15 06:48:43 <Diablo-D3> I dont get it =/
 733 2012-03-15 06:48:56 <jm9000> You gotta catch them all.
 734 2012-03-15 06:48:58 <chwergy> you must be the master of all Diablo
 735 2012-03-15 06:49:25 <jm9000> I hope Diablo 3 doesn't suck like 2 did.
 736 2012-03-15 06:50:09 <Diablo-D3> Joric: both have quills dipped in ink
 737 2012-03-15 06:50:12 <Diablo-D3> chwergy: nope
 738 2012-03-15 06:50:15 <Diablo-D3> cant stand the game
 739 2012-03-15 06:50:29 _h4ckm3 has joined
 740 2012-03-15 06:50:34 <Diablo-D3> my nick predates blizzard entertainment, co
 741 2012-03-15 06:51:10 <chwergy> I suppose i should have said "Diablo, you must be..."
 742 2012-03-15 06:51:14 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
 743 2012-03-15 06:51:31 <chwergy> anyone run an MC server?
 744 2012-03-15 06:51:32 <[Tycho]> chwergy: simple users should use light bitcoin clients that don't need to store the entire blockchain. Full client is for serious business and cryptogeeks.
 745 2012-03-15 06:51:44 <chwergy> oh :P
 746 2012-03-15 06:51:48 <chwergy> thanks tycho
 747 2012-03-15 06:52:09 <chwergy> finding the light bitcoin client is an issue for me i suppose..?
 748 2012-03-15 06:52:12 <chwergy> where to getget?
 749 2012-03-15 06:52:18 <[Tycho]> Bitcoin forum.
 750 2012-03-15 06:52:22 <forsetifox> Bitspinner or something is one?
 751 2012-03-15 06:52:32 <chwergy> oh i use that one on android
 752 2012-03-15 06:52:32 <bitfoo> chwergy: give electrum a try - http://ecdsa.org/electrum/
 753 2012-03-15 06:52:36 <[Tycho]> I think there are a lot already.
 754 2012-03-15 06:52:36 pickett has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 755 2012-03-15 06:52:44 <chwergy> thanks bitfoo
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 760 2012-03-15 06:53:38 <chwergy> though... how to manage wallet if i have a lite client on phone and one on computer?
 761 2012-03-15 06:53:52 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 762 2012-03-15 06:54:13 <forsetifox> Both of them would have the private key, I think?
 763 2012-03-15 06:54:22 <forsetifox> These guys would know better than I.
 764 2012-03-15 06:54:38 <chwergy> this is where it gets a little fuzzy for me
 765 2012-03-15 06:54:47 <chwergy> i just picked this up last night
 766 2012-03-15 06:54:58 <Graet> main wallet on pc, phone wallet just enough for every day use, lose phone, lose little
 767 2012-03-15 06:55:11 <chwergy> i thought that may be the case
 768 2012-03-15 06:55:21 <forsetifox> Graet is wise. Listen to him. =P
 769 2012-03-15 06:55:23 phantomfakeBNC has joined
 770 2012-03-15 06:55:31 <Graet> better than having all your funds on phone imo :)
 771 2012-03-15 06:55:35 <chwergy> so how to access wallet.dat when deling with bitspinner?
 772 2012-03-15 06:55:38 <Habbie> uh
 773 2012-03-15 06:55:40 <Graet> ty forsetifox lol
 774 2012-03-15 06:55:53 <Habbie> just make sure your pc has all keys and your phone has the few keys you want to have available for mobile usage
 775 2012-03-15 06:56:06 <Graet> i have to go pick kids up from school, gl chwergy
 776 2012-03-15 06:56:09 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
 777 2012-03-15 06:56:10 <Habbie> lose your phone, lose nothing; lose your phone, someone finds it before you move the funds for those keys, lose some
 778 2012-03-15 06:56:14 <chwergy> thanks graet
 779 2012-03-15 06:56:40 <chwergy> how to manage keys?
 780 2012-03-15 06:56:48 <chwergy> oh
 781 2012-03-15 06:56:57 <chwergy> unencrypt wallet.dat
 782 2012-03-15 06:57:03 <chwergy> and look inside?
 783 2012-03-15 06:58:51 <chwergy> it seems i cant unencrypt
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 787 2012-03-15 06:59:45 <[Tycho]> Use key export and import functions
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 790 2012-03-15 07:02:08 <chwergy> in electrum..
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 838 2012-03-15 08:36:11 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: ancow opened issue 939 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/939>
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 868 2012-03-15 09:38:55 <[Tycho]> Another hour without a block...
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 930 2012-03-15 11:28:39 <riush> i'm confused.. http://blockexplorer.com/tx/3a5e0977cc64e601490a761d83a4ea5be3cd03b0ffb73f5fe8be6507539be76c - are 0-value outputs really allowed? and more importantly, how can "1" be a valid script sig for that output??
 931 2012-03-15 11:30:21 <[Tycho]> Wow.
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 934 2012-03-15 11:37:43 <lianj> and what did we make wrong here, http://bitcoin.interesthings.de/script/3a5e0977cc64e601490a761d83a4ea5be3cd03b0ffb73f5fe8be6507539be76c:0 its false because the last value of the stack is not 1
 935 2012-03-15 11:37:44 archo47 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 936 2012-03-15 11:38:56 <lianj> last line of our Script.run is @stack.pop == 1. should it be different?
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 938 2012-03-15 11:40:24 <Graet> http://blockchain.info/address/1AJaMSZDGaANx1wd9u83DTznCxkdrJiK8
 939 2012-03-15 11:40:34 <Graet> interesting amount of fail there
 940 2012-03-15 11:41:37 <[Tycho]> It's luke
 941 2012-03-15 11:42:07 <[Tycho]> The first one in the list was sent by me
 942 2012-03-15 11:45:43 <[Tycho]> lianj: do you know where the bitcoin script interpreter checks for "1" ?
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 944 2012-03-15 11:46:45 <lianj> not sure, i was talking about my one :D and wonder if its correct after all
 945 2012-03-15 11:47:53 <[Tycho]> But this one is really good find - http://blockexplorer.com/tx/3a5e0977cc64e601490a761d83a4ea5be3cd03b0ffb73f5fe8be6507539be76c
 946 2012-03-15 11:49:12 <[Tycho]> Both 0 input AND 0 output.
 947 2012-03-15 11:49:31 <lianj> yes but why is it valid. its not valid in my runner http://bitcoin.interesthings.de/script/3a5e0977cc64e601490a761d83a4ea5be3cd03b0ffb73f5fe8be6507539be76c:0
 948 2012-03-15 11:49:36 <lianj> haha, yea that too!
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 950 2012-03-15 11:49:49 <riush> yea, that's spending the 0-value output (without a fee ;)
 951 2012-03-15 11:50:17 <[Tycho]> He can mine any TX without fees.
 952 2012-03-15 11:51:13 <[Tycho]> lianj: may be because your parser checks for "1", not for 0/empty ?
 953 2012-03-15 11:51:52 <[Tycho]> I really was thinking that 0-output is not allowed.
 954 2012-03-15 11:51:59 <riush> well, it pushes 1 to the stack, then pushes the data from the output to the stack, then checks if the last item is true-ish, which random data isn't
 955 2012-03-15 11:52:39 <[Tycho]> Why random data is not true ?
 956 2012-03-15 11:53:42 <lianj> so youre saying it should check is last item on the stack is 0 or empty stack and only then return false?
 957 2012-03-15 11:54:01 <[Tycho]> May be. Ask someone else.
 958 2012-03-15 11:54:11 <lianj> :)
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 960 2012-03-15 11:56:03 <[Tycho]> Amazing ! Looks like 0-outputs are possible. This opens a lot of opportunities to me.
 961 2012-03-15 11:56:26 <riush> hehe. putting data in the blockchain for free? ;)
 962 2012-03-15 11:57:02 <[Tycho]> I was expecting it to be disallowed, but actually only LACK of outputs is prohibited (but would be even better).
 963 2012-03-15 11:57:21 <[Tycho]> riush: well, no. I already can put any data there for free.
 964 2012-03-15 11:57:48 <lianj> [Tycho]: if i make that change, my tests fail at this assertion  Script.from_string("1 OP_DROP 2").run.should == false
 965 2012-03-15 11:58:03 <lianj> what do you guys think, should true or false be right :D
 966 2012-03-15 11:59:18 <[Tycho]> lianj: where is that script ?
 967 2012-03-15 11:59:53 <lianj> a made up one in my test suite
 968 2012-03-15 12:00:49 <[Tycho]> lianj: try it against real bitcoind and find out.
 969 2012-03-15 12:01:03 <[Tycho]> Even if bitcoind is wrong you should provide same result :)
 970 2012-03-15 12:01:37 <lianj> hehe
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 982 2012-03-15 12:21:52 <[Tycho]> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904583204576542851688284590.html
 983 2012-03-15 12:28:56 <TD> community currencies have a long history for local economic regeneration. see "the future of money" by bernard lietaer for some good discussions of this. brazil is also quite innovative, economically
 984 2012-03-15 12:33:48 Zarutian has joined
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 986 2012-03-15 12:34:25 <jjjrmy-m> Does anyone have an Instawallet account that's been used that I can borrow?
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 991 2012-03-15 12:38:03 <t7> yes
 992 2012-03-15 12:38:12 <t7> let me find the url
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 998 2012-03-15 13:02:32 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened issue 940 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/940>
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1002 2012-03-15 13:05:45 <denisx> how is it going with BIP30?
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1004 2012-03-15 13:06:53 <[Tycho]> Deployed and running
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1008 2012-03-15 13:08:54 <denisx> any news on the 1 transaction miner?
1009 2012-03-15 13:09:01 <[Tycho]> No.
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1012 2012-03-15 13:12:36 <ThomasV> denisx: maybe he wants higher fees
1013 2012-03-15 13:14:21 <ThomasV> someone should try transactions with 1btc fees, see if they go in these blocks
1014 2012-03-15 13:14:49 <[Tycho]> I doubt this.
1015 2012-03-15 13:14:58 <ThomasV> why?
1016 2012-03-15 13:15:21 <ThomasV> you think it's an attack?
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1018 2012-03-15 13:15:39 <[Tycho]> No. I think they don't include TXes for some technical reasons.
1019 2012-03-15 13:15:44 <[Tycho]> May be to save time.
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1021 2012-03-15 13:16:06 <Graet> or effort
1022 2012-03-15 13:17:40 <[Tycho]> Even stock bitcoind drops TXes if it has no time to process them.
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1024 2012-03-15 13:17:54 denisx_ is now known as denisx
1025 2012-03-15 13:18:30 <sipa> ;;bc,eligius
1026 2012-03-15 13:18:31 <gribble> 294205259.776
1027 2012-03-15 13:19:18 <[Tycho]> For example this block was created by me: https://blockchain.info/block-index/194033/0000000000000a123cd65bf68764bfd89adea84b66ea250c206d9c94c582d795
1028 2012-03-15 13:19:32 <sipa> wow, pool hash rates vary a lot quickly
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1030 2012-03-15 13:19:41 <sipa> [Tycho]: didn't you have 3900 a few days ago?
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1032 2012-03-15 13:20:00 <[Tycho]> 4000 is with GPUMAX on
1033 2012-03-15 13:20:18 <[Tycho]> Normal speed is 3600, as stated in topic
1034 2012-03-15 13:20:23 <sipa> ic
1035 2012-03-15 13:20:41 <[Tycho]> But the luck is more than 30% worse now.
1036 2012-03-15 13:21:11 <[Tycho]> sipa: did you saw this redeeming ? :) http://blockexplorer.com/tx/3a5e0977cc64e601490a761d83a4ea5be3cd03b0ffb73f5fe8be6507539be76c#i4652380
1037 2012-03-15 13:21:20 <[Tycho]> Unusual script.
1038 2012-03-15 13:21:34 <[Tycho]> And the first TX I see with both 0 input and output
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1043 2012-03-15 13:23:39 <sipa> [Tycho]: interesting
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1048 2012-03-15 13:27:59 <fiddur> What does the bitcoind rpc return if sendfrom is tried with too low transaction fee?    Looking at the code, I would guess -4 with the message "Error: This transaction requires a transaction fee of at least %s because of its amount, complexity, or use of recently received funds".  Catching the needed txfee in a string comparison though is not what I'd like to do...
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1051 2012-03-15 13:31:16 <sipa> fiddur: afaik it just adds a fee
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1053 2012-03-15 13:32:18 <fiddur> sipa: So I wont get here:  https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/wallet.cpp#L1197   ?
1054 2012-03-15 13:32:48 <fiddur> ...or is that just if the balance is too low to add the fee perhaps...
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1060 2012-03-15 13:36:45 <etotheipi_> is there a way to get the satoshi client to finally just give up on a Tx?  I finally got my satoshi wallet migrated into Armory, rescanned, and spent... the Satoshi client even sees it in the blockchain
1061 2012-03-15 13:37:05 <etotheipi_> but despite blocks in the blockchain conflicting with this mempool tx, it's still broadcasting...
1062 2012-03-15 13:37:21 <sipa> etotheipi_: yes, it assumes its own sends are unquestionably valid
1063 2012-03-15 13:37:35 <sipa> i've been meaning to fix that for a long time
1064 2012-03-15 13:37:45 <etotheipi_> is there a way to clear its memory pool?
1065 2012-03-15 13:37:56 <sipa> etotheipi_: restart it, but the memory pool is not the problem
1066 2012-03-15 13:38:13 <sipa> fiddur: sendmany uses CreateTransaction, not SendMoney
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1068 2012-03-15 13:41:10 <fiddur> sipa: I'm talking about sendfrom, not sendmany.
1069 2012-03-15 13:41:24 <sipa> fiddur: oh, i misread
1070 2012-03-15 13:41:45 datagutt2 is now known as datagutt
1071 2012-03-15 13:41:50 <fiddur> ...ever thought about adding e.g. doxygen docs to the code?  ..or constants for the JSONRPCError codes? :D
1072 2012-03-15 13:42:05 <sipa> wumpus maintains a doxygen somewhere
1073 2012-03-15 13:42:13 <sipa> and those constants are good idea
1074 2012-03-15 13:42:32 <sipa> any, it will add the (minimum) fee automatically, unless there is not enough balance for that
1075 2012-03-15 13:42:42 <fiddur> Ok.  Thanks.
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1077 2012-03-15 13:43:05 <sipa> etotheipi_: it comes from the wallet system, which works remarkably independently from the blockchain code
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1091 2012-03-15 14:08:57 <etotheipi_> so SIPA, is there a way to just get rid of those tx?
1092 2012-03-15 14:09:25 <etotheipi_> they're really irritating me, and there's conflicting tx in the blockchain already
1093 2012-03-15 14:10:08 <nanotube> gotta manually edit the wallet using some wallet tools and delete that tx
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1096 2012-03-15 14:11:00 <etotheipi_> ugh... well I did just write a wallet migration/extraction tool... so I'm digging through bsddb code anyway...
1097 2012-03-15 14:12:49 <Joric> etotheipi_, it's complicated
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1099 2012-03-15 14:13:29 <etotheipi_> I bet...
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1101 2012-03-15 14:13:59 <Joric> etotheipi_, even opensourced, bsddb it's not reverse-engineering friendly )
1102 2012-03-15 14:14:31 <etotheipi_> Joric, btw I got the full migration tool working based on your pywallet code
1103 2012-03-15 14:14:35 <etotheipi_> I'm going to send you 5 BTC
1104 2012-03-15 14:14:48 <Joric> omg 1JoricCBkW8C5m7QUZMwoRz9rBCM6ZSy96
1105 2012-03-15 14:16:14 <etotheipi_> I don't think I would've had the patience to figure it out, without your code
1106 2012-03-15 14:16:22 <etotheipi_> (the wallet-encryption stuff)
1107 2012-03-15 14:16:33 <sipa> etotheipi_: well, if you'd just remove the tx entries
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1109 2012-03-15 14:17:05 <Joric_> etotheipi_, thank you very much i've seen it hit the network already
1110 2012-03-15 14:17:19 <sipa> etotheipi_: or you could run my very outdated rejectedtx branch
1111 2012-03-15 14:17:22 <Joric_> i owe you a lot of beer
1112 2012-03-15 14:17:57 <etotheipi_> Joric_, no worries... this is the second or third time you've done something that explicitly helped out
1113 2012-03-15 14:18:04 <etotheipi_> (I think the first was OSX compiling)
1114 2012-03-15 14:18:17 <sipa> etotheipi_: https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/commit/70a01202cf3facdb251214ea12fae5a149f3b823
1115 2012-03-15 14:18:23 <sipa> but very likely not to merge anymore
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1117 2012-03-15 14:18:41 <etotheipi_> sipa, :(  I have a feeling I'd have to compile the Satoshi client to use that, right?
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1119 2012-03-15 14:19:04 <sipa> oh, certainly
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1122 2012-03-15 14:19:14 <sipa> but i'm quite sure it won't even compile anymore
1123 2012-03-15 14:19:22 <sipa> it's also on my todo list to update it ;)
1124 2012-03-15 14:19:31 <Joric_> etotheipi_, i'm trying to write faster indexing https://github.com/joric/pyblockchain/blob/master/cppblockchain.cpp
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1128 2012-03-15 14:20:27 <Joric> damn provider
1129 2012-03-15 14:20:29 <sipa> bah, was stupid, apparently i was in the wrong directory, with a 0.3.19 bitcoind in it, starting it, i got database errors... tried everything and eventually deleted my blockchain... then realized
1130 2012-03-15 14:20:38 <Joric> https://github.com/joric/pyblockchain/blob/master/cppblockchain.cpp  takes ~2 minutes to load entire blockchain / calculate balances without loading completely into ram
1131 2012-03-15 14:21:13 <Joric> i'm going to load blocks into 10mb buffer to avoid extra seekg while calculating tx hashes
1132 2012-03-15 14:21:17 <etotheipi_> Joric... what I do in Armory takes about 10-45s depending on your hardware, and about double that if I use mmap
1133 2012-03-15 14:21:49 <etotheipi_> the mmap solution is a medium-term solution that I am going to implement which allows me to let the system decide how much RAM to use
1134 2012-03-15 14:22:55 <Eliel> perhaps check the amount of RAM the system has on startup and choose between mmap and your current system based on whether there's enough memory?
1135 2012-03-15 14:23:08 <etotheipi_> Eliel, mmap basically already does that
1136 2012-03-15 14:23:27 <etotheipi_> on my system with 16 GB of RAM, using the mmap solution runs almost as smoothly as the current full-RAM
1137 2012-03-15 14:23:44 <etotheipi_> it just takes a little longer to do the initial scan (but it will rescan for new address balances in less than 1s after that)
1138 2012-03-15 14:23:49 Joric_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1139 2012-03-15 14:24:08 <Eliel> but didn't you just say mmap made it slower?
1140 2012-03-15 14:24:26 <sipa> it can be
1141 2012-03-15 14:24:37 <etotheipi_> it's a little bit slower
1142 2012-03-15 14:25:01 <etotheipi_> on a system with a lot of RAM, it's not really noticeable... it maybe goes from 20s load time to 30s load time
1143 2012-03-15 14:25:23 <etotheipi_> maybe not even that much... 25s?
1144 2012-03-15 14:25:26 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1145 2012-03-15 14:25:41 <Joric> i was thinking about exporting to sqlite https://github.com/joric/pyblockchain/blob/master/sqlite.py but it takes about 30 minutes )
1146 2012-03-15 14:25:48 <etotheipi_> where mmap makes a difference is on systems with 1 GB of RAM
1147 2012-03-15 14:25:54 <Eliel> is that one time thing or every startup? It's way too slow if it happens every time.
1148 2012-03-15 14:26:05 <Joric> and will probably weight a lot more than the blockchain itself
1149 2012-03-15 14:26:07 <etotheipi_> Eliel, atm it's every startup
1150 2012-03-15 14:26:31 <etotheipi_> that's why it's a "medium-term" solution... I need to mitigate the fact that the blockchain is soon not going to fit into *anyone's* RAM
1151 2012-03-15 14:26:42 <Eliel> yes, true.
1152 2012-03-15 14:26:45 <etotheipi_> then I'll work on something more robust and long-term
1153 2012-03-15 14:26:56 <etotheipi_> or integrate libcoin or something
1154 2012-03-15 14:27:33 <etotheipi_> but given how much I love data structures (it's a bizarre hobby), I might just rework it myself
1155 2012-03-15 14:27:54 <sipa> etotheipi_: what license is armory?
1156 2012-03-15 14:28:13 <etotheipi_> I really need a good PATRICIA tree impl in C++
1157 2012-03-15 14:28:25 <etotheipi_> sipa, ATM it's AGPL3
1158 2012-03-15 14:28:29 <sipa> ic
1159 2012-03-15 14:28:50 <etotheipi_> with dual-licensing negotiable
1160 2012-03-15 14:29:27 <etotheipi_> I may loosen it up later... but it's not easy to go back from less-restrictive to more-restrictive if I change my mind later
1161 2012-03-15 14:29:34 <sipa> true\
1162 2012-03-15 14:29:55 knotwork has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1163 2012-03-15 14:29:56 <sipa> etotheipi_: have you seen stanford's online crypto course?
1164 2012-03-15 14:30:15 <etotheipi_> sipa, I've heard about it from Raccoon's spamming :)
1165 2012-03-15 14:30:19 <sipa> haha
1166 2012-03-15 14:30:25 <Joric> PATRICIA tree omg i just used std::map (a self-balancing rb-tree if i remember right)
1167 2012-03-15 14:30:43 <etotheipi_> Joric, you know PATRICIA trees?
1168 2012-03-15 14:30:46 <etotheipi_> so few people do!
1169 2012-03-15 14:30:49 * sipa does
1170 2012-03-15 14:31:08 * Joric blinks
1171 2012-03-15 14:31:09 <sipa> it's a binary trie with 'compacted' branches, right?
1172 2012-03-15 14:31:09 <Joric> i do know
1173 2012-03-15 14:31:13 <Joric> now
1174 2012-03-15 14:31:23 <etotheipi_> I remember staying up all night with a buddy, about 16 hours straight, trying to figure out the "insert" function for a PATRICIA tree
1175 2012-03-15 14:31:35 <etotheipi_> (it was for a data-structures homework)
1176 2012-03-15 14:31:57 Joric_ has joined
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1178 2012-03-15 14:31:57 Joric_ has joined
1179 2012-03-15 14:32:00 <sipa> etotheipi_: the crypto couse is nice though; i'm already through the first week's lectures and exercises
1180 2012-03-15 14:32:03 <sipa> *course
1181 2012-03-15 14:32:21 <etotheipi_> sipa, maybe I should get over my pride and do it...
1182 2012-03-15 14:32:41 <etotheipi_> I have taken a grad-level course on crypto... but it never hurts to take more and risk learning something new :)
1183 2012-03-15 14:32:42 <sipa> (i don't expect to learn too much practically, but i like seeing some formalism behind crypto)
1184 2012-03-15 14:33:34 <sipa> i never had a course on crypto at the university; makes me wonder why i never tried to do it as an optional one though
1185 2012-03-15 14:33:58 <etotheipi_> I was able to fit it into my Applied Math master's
1186 2012-03-15 14:34:02 <etotheipi_> and totally worth it
1187 2012-03-15 14:34:16 <etotheipi_> I got to do my final project on WEP
1188 2012-03-15 14:34:35 <etotheipi_> that was fun:  WEP is a disaster, cryptographically...
1189 2012-03-15 14:34:38 <sipa> the first programming exercise was: here are some messages encrypted with the same one time pad, decrypt it
1190 2012-03-15 14:36:03 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1191 2012-03-15 14:36:18 <etotheipi_> I found it really helpful to use python+sage when we started doing RSA and ECC
1192 2012-03-15 14:36:35 Joric_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1193 2012-03-15 14:36:51 <etotheipi_> I'm going to try to find that final project one WEP -- it's comical how many problems there are with it
1194 2012-03-15 14:36:53 <sipa> If you've learned that much already, maybe the stanford course will have little to offer.
1195 2012-03-15 14:37:57 <sipa> etotheipi_: actually, the lecturer has already mentioned more than "WEP is a really nice thing, there are so many things wrong with it i can often refer to it as an example how not to do things"
1196 2012-03-15 14:38:00 Joric has joined
1197 2012-03-15 14:38:16 <sipa> *once
1198 2012-03-15 14:38:23 <Joric> 'in 2008 the GPL family was 70 percent of licenses. As of December of 2011, it was 57 percent.' http://www.cio.com/article/698663/How_Open_Source_Licenses_Affect_Your_Business_and_Your_Developers
1199 2012-03-15 14:39:08 bitlad has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1200 2012-03-15 14:39:49 <etotheipi_> sipa, yeah that's exactly how I feel about WEP... it's a perfect sandbox for playing with all the things that you can do wrong
1201 2012-03-15 14:39:52 iocor has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
1202 2012-03-15 14:40:32 <etotheipi_> my favorite attack was the fact that is uses just a simple XOR mask of the packets, and you know the structure, so you know where the IP address is in the packet
1203 2012-03-15 14:41:02 iocor has joined
1204 2012-03-15 14:41:27 <etotheipi_> so you can intercept the encrypted packets, flip some bits in the IP field, and have the router send it to one of your own IP addresses (it will decrypt it to send it externally)
1205 2012-03-15 14:44:00 <etotheipi_> and the WEP protocol doesn't require any consecutive IVs or anything... so you can replay a packet as many times as you want
1206 2012-03-15 14:44:01 sacarlson has joined
1207 2012-03-15 14:48:42 <etotheipi_> that's a fun first problem set
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1209 2012-03-15 14:50:31 <Joric> i like the westheimer's rule 'To estimate the time it takes to do a task: estimate the time you think it should take, multiply by two and change the unit of measure to the next highest unit. Thus, we allocate two days for a one hour task.'
1210 2012-03-15 14:52:13 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1211 2012-03-15 14:56:37 <luke-jr> tcatm: 0.5.3 is ready
1212 2012-03-15 14:56:54 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: I did that a long time ago
1213 2012-03-15 14:57:32 bitcoin-otc-uk has joined
1214 2012-03-15 14:58:31 <tcatm> luke-jr: There's a NACK from BlueMatt. Can you resolve that first (either get a consensus or remove that commit)?
1215 2012-03-15 14:58:53 <luke-jr> lianj: top stack just has to be non-zero to succeed
1216 2012-03-15 14:59:12 <luke-jr> Graet: that address is my "automatically try to spend everything" script
1217 2012-03-15 15:00:10 BlueMatt has joined
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1219 2012-03-15 15:00:25 <luke-jr> Joric: the total amount of GPL has still gone up, though.
1220 2012-03-15 15:01:18 <luke-jr> sipa: ping
1221 2012-03-15 15:02:07 <luke-jr> tcatm: I don't care strongly either way. I'll just remove it, unless sipa says it's fine :p
1222 2012-03-15 15:02:33 <luke-jr> tcatm: Matt's NACK is based on a false premise, though - by his rule, we'd need to remove Satoshi :p
1223 2012-03-15 15:03:35 tower has joined
1224 2012-03-15 15:03:41 sytse has joined
1225 2012-03-15 15:04:01 <gavinandresen> Satoshi can have write access to the github repo any time he asks.
1226 2012-03-15 15:04:21 <luke-jr> lol
1227 2012-03-15 15:04:50 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: you're welcome to answer instead of sipa, didn't realize you were here/active :p
1228 2012-03-15 15:05:03 <gavinandresen> I agree with Matt
1229 2012-03-15 15:05:27 <luke-jr> tcatm: removed the commit
1230 2012-03-15 15:06:25 <tcatm> merged.
1231 2012-03-15 15:08:08 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1232 2012-03-15 15:08:20 <lianj> luke-jr: empty stack is true too?
1233 2012-03-15 15:08:28 <luke-jr> lianj: no, empty stack is false
1234 2012-03-15 15:08:38 <Joric> stack is innocent
1235 2012-03-15 15:08:44 <lianj> ok thanks
1236 2012-03-15 15:08:51 <luke-jr> lianj: I think strictly speaking, you can get multibyte falses too
1237 2012-03-15 15:10:58 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: tcatm: on a bit more thought, I do disagree with Matt simply on the basis that bitcoin.org should not prefer a specific client :p
1238 2012-03-15 15:11:17 <luke-jr> but I guess that status quo takes more work to change than just the author list
1239 2012-03-15 15:12:59 <tcatm> I don't like hosting the rendered files statically on github anymore :/ There service hooks seem to be broken again and thus bitcoin.org is not updating.
1240 2012-03-15 15:13:12 <luke-jr> (and doesn't necessarily put me on the list, since Spesmilo isn't really maintained anymore)
1241 2012-03-15 15:13:22 <luke-jr> tcatm: I tried the manual hook
1242 2012-03-15 15:16:39 <luke-jr> tcatm: (it didn't work)
1243 2012-03-15 15:18:44 knotwork has joined
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1245 2012-03-15 15:18:44 knotwork has joined
1246 2012-03-15 15:19:46 <tcatm> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.github.com/blob/master/index.html has updated just fine.
1247 2012-03-15 15:20:21 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1248 2012-03-15 15:22:32 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1249 2012-03-15 15:23:06 datagutt_ is now known as datagutt
1250 2012-03-15 15:26:16 bitvampire has joined
1251 2012-03-15 15:28:28 <Joric> stallman approves http://bitcoinmedia.com/stallman-likes-bitcoin/
1252 2012-03-15 15:30:57 fiddur has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1253 2012-03-15 15:33:02 <gavinandresen> uh oh
1254 2012-03-15 15:34:50 <helo> "His statement that bitcoin is not currently anonymous by default but can be made anonymous is totally correct." <--- not what stallman said
1255 2012-03-15 15:35:05 <helo> "Bitcoin, I believe, can be used anonymously although it’s not inherently anonymous" <-- what he actually said
1256 2012-03-15 15:35:46 tower has joined
1257 2012-03-15 15:36:41 <[Tycho]> lianj: looks like I was right, the bitcoin wiki says "A transaction is valid if nothing in the combined script triggers failure and the top stack item is true (non-zero)"
1258 2012-03-15 15:40:35 bitvampire has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1259 2012-03-15 15:41:00 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1260 2012-03-15 15:44:00 tower has joined
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1262 2012-03-15 15:45:30 <sipa> luke-jr: what was it about?
1263 2012-03-15 15:47:11 <luke-jr> sipa: whether or not to add me to the developer list on bitcoin.org
1264 2012-03-15 15:47:36 phungus has joined
1265 2012-03-15 15:48:21 <sipa> ic
1266 2012-03-15 15:51:04 <bitcoin-otc-uk> Hi iam pleased to announce the launch of #bitcoin-otc-uk . Please take the time to have a look Thankyou.
1267 2012-03-15 15:51:27 <jrmithdobbs> please take the time to go fuck yourself
1268 2012-03-15 15:51:43 <luke-jr> bitcoin-otc-uk: sorry, we already have a channel for that
1269 2012-03-15 15:51:47 <luke-jr> it's called #bitcoin-otc
1270 2012-03-15 15:52:23 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: is that necessary? (i agree it's not very on-topic here, though)
1271 2012-03-15 15:52:48 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: sorry, pissy mood (shit goin down at work) and just glanced up and saw spam, it was not necessary or appropriate.
1272 2012-03-15 15:52:56 <jrmithdobbs> ;p
1273 2012-03-15 15:53:08 <gavinandresen> drama in the otc world would be a good discussion for #bitcoin, imho
1274 2012-03-15 15:53:11 <luke-jr> nor*
1275 2012-03-15 15:53:14 tower has quit (Disconnected by services)
1276 2012-03-15 15:53:30 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: do you have time to audit my BIP 16 backport by any chance?
1277 2012-03-15 15:53:41 tower has joined
1278 2012-03-15 15:53:45 <bitcoin-otc-uk> big charges exchangeing. for paypal in uk from US
1279 2012-03-15 15:53:58 <luke-jr> bitcoin-otc-uk: so?
1280 2012-03-15 15:54:02 <jrmithdobbs> bitcoin-otc-uk: go. away.
1281 2012-03-15 15:54:17 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: 0.5.something backport?  maybe-- although I'd much rather people just upgraded to 0.6
1282 2012-03-15 15:54:59 <sipa> Did BlueMatt get any progress on locating the win32-qt-rpc bug last night?
1283 2012-03-15 15:55:07 <luke-jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/w/bitcoind/luke-jr.git/commitdiff/b0dc119b75d5f0d19c9aef1047f6083f5b3de638
1284 2012-03-15 15:57:42 bitvampire has joined
1285 2012-03-15 15:57:42 <lianj> luke-jr: [Tycho]: yea, thanks again. fixed it in my runner
1286 2012-03-15 15:58:50 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1287 2012-03-15 16:00:38 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: if the goal is minimal support, then a much smaller patch is possible.  You just need the fully-verify BIP16 code from script.cpp, but treat BIP16 transactions as non-standard (don't put them in your memory pool, don't mine them)
1288 2012-03-15 16:01:10 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: hmm, good point
1289 2012-03-15 16:01:33 <luke-jr> (and the sigop counting)
1290 2012-03-15 16:02:02 <gavinandresen> If you assume nobody is going to waste time mining blocks with out-of-bounds BIP16 sigop counts then you could get away with not counting them....
1291 2012-03-15 16:02:29 <gavinandresen> (you would risk building on top of a bad block, though)
1292 2012-03-15 16:02:32 <sipa> that's the same as assuming nobody is going to mine invalid BIP16 transactions at all, no?
1293 2012-03-15 16:02:56 <sipa> (i.e. not backporting anything at all)
1294 2012-03-15 16:03:26 bitcoin-otc-uk has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1295 2012-03-15 16:04:16 forsetifox has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1296 2012-03-15 16:04:32 <gavinandresen> sipa:  I suppose the danger would be lazy miners who don't upgrade and have very-expensive BIP16-spending transactions in their memory pool... they might create a block that exceeds the max sigops number and not know it....
1297 2012-03-15 16:04:59 tower has joined
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1299 2012-03-15 16:05:45 <gavinandresen> So, yeah, the backport really needs to count BIP16 sigops, because otherwise an attacker could leverage a lazy miner to create blocks that the backported code might build on.
1300 2012-03-15 16:05:55 <sipa> Exactly.
1301 2012-03-15 16:06:27 <gavinandresen> (not an easy/cheap attack, since very-expensive-BIP16 transactions will have high fees....)
1302 2012-03-15 16:06:31 TD has joined
1303 2012-03-15 16:06:51 <sipa> Is there a 0.5.3 release announcement on the forums?
1304 2012-03-15 16:07:45 <sipa> (I'd like to do a BIP30-related post in the mining subforum, but preferably there is a release announcement to refer to)
1305 2012-03-15 16:10:08 <Joric> does blockchain contain orphaned blocks atm?
1306 2012-03-15 16:10:33 <luke-jr> sipa: wiaitng for bitcoin.org to update
1307 2012-03-15 16:11:01 <sipa> luke-jr: it is updated
1308 2012-03-15 16:11:01 <etotheipi_> Joric, you blockchain file may include invalid blocks... but someone redownloading the chain won't see them
1309 2012-03-15 16:11:05 <sipa> (you need to refresh)
1310 2012-03-15 16:11:18 <sipa> Joric: yes
1311 2012-03-15 16:11:46 <sipa> etotheipi_: depends what kind of invalidness
1312 2012-03-15 16:11:56 <sipa> (only unconnectable blocks, afaik)
1313 2012-03-15 16:11:58 <Joric> i mean while i'm parsing it should i build merkle tree or something? it's not enough to scan it consequently?
1314 2012-03-15 16:12:16 <sipa> Joric: not a merkle tree, just a tree
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1317 2012-03-15 16:14:07 <etotheipi_> Joric, the way I do it is that I read all blocks (headers) into a map indexed by their hash... then when I'm done I go through the map (in arbitrary order) and walk down the chain (using prevHash to get to the prev block)
1318 2012-03-15 16:14:37 <etotheipi_> then I stop once I either hit a hash I don't know, or the genesis block
1319 2012-03-15 16:15:15 <etotheipi_> it's a bit more complicated than that... but that's the gist of how I organize the chain and detect orphans
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1321 2012-03-15 16:16:25 <luke-jr> sipa: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=68895.0
1322 2012-03-15 16:16:49 <luke-jr> tcatm: ping, update forum version thing
1323 2012-03-15 16:17:10 <etotheipi_> Joric, here's the way I do it:  https://github.com/etotheipi/BitcoinArmory/blob/master/cppForSwig/BlockUtils.cpp#L2393
1324 2012-03-15 16:17:26 <etotheipi_> it takes less than 1/20 of a second to organize the chain once all the blocks are indexed in the map
1325 2012-03-15 16:18:00 <etotheipi_> that method also detects the longest chain
1326 2012-03-15 16:18:12 <etotheipi_> and marks any invalid branches
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1329 2012-03-15 16:26:27 BlueMatt has joined
1330 2012-03-15 16:27:56 <BlueMatt> wumpus: you dont happen to have an old build of bitcoin-qt.exe sitting around that was built on windows?
1331 2012-03-15 16:28:37 <andytoshi> maybe it's time to haul Knuth out and read the chapters on searching/sorting
1332 2012-03-15 16:28:38 <andytoshi> with tape drives and their ilk :P
1333 2012-03-15 16:28:59 * BlueMatt feels like he may have missed part of the conversation...
1334 2012-03-15 16:29:47 <andytoshi> etotheipi_ and Joric were discussing blockchain organization
1335 2012-03-15 16:29:54 <BlueMatt> ah
1336 2012-03-15 16:30:19 <BlueMatt> sipa: "Did BlueMatt get any progress on locating the win32-qt-rpc bug last night?" afaict we are (somehow) building without exception support
1337 2012-03-15 16:30:27 <BlueMatt> still trying to figure out how/why
1338 2012-03-15 16:31:24 <etotheipi_> andytoshi, searching and sorting are my specialty!  although I could be doing better if I can find an acceptable PATRICIA tree implementation
1339 2012-03-15 16:32:14 <andytoshi> cool! i thought you were a physicist..
1340 2012-03-15 16:32:37 <etotheipi_> andytoshi, I am... but strangely, my favorite class in undergrad was a brutal data-structures class
1341 2012-03-15 16:32:40 tower has joined
1342 2012-03-15 16:33:12 larsivi has joined
1343 2012-03-15 16:33:25 <etotheipi_> I guess I do so much programming/problem-solving, that the optimizations from using the right data structures really made me happy
1344 2012-03-15 16:35:27 <etotheipi_> having to use binary search trees to organize tx data seems *sooo* inefficient
1345 2012-03-15 16:35:39 <etotheipi_> and it doesn't allow me to do prefix searching...
1346 2012-03-15 16:36:17 <sipa> search for the prefix's previous node, then iterate?
1347 2012-03-15 16:36:17 <etotheipi_> :)
1348 2012-03-15 16:37:38 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1349 2012-03-15 16:40:03 <sipa> etotheipi_: it's not optimally efficient, but at least it's O(log n)
1350 2012-03-15 16:40:44 <etotheipi_> so how do you do it in a binary search tree?  all my keys are 32 bytes, and I have a 5-byte prefix... I want to get all nodes that start with that prefix
1351 2012-03-15 16:40:53 sacarlson has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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1353 2012-03-15 16:41:13 <etotheipi_> first I have to make sure my operator< and == are written to accommodate this searching
1354 2012-03-15 16:41:36 <sipa> you can search for the first node that sorts after your prefix, right?
1355 2012-03-15 16:42:09 <sipa> and then do depth-first walking from there, until you hit a node that sorts after the prefix
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1360 2012-03-15 16:44:15 <etotheipi_> so I guess I could make it:  prefix0:  true, I can find the first item that is greater than <prefix>000000 and then do a sorted extraction of that branch up to <prefix>FFFFFFF
1361 2012-03-15 16:44:19 tower has joined
1362 2012-03-15 16:44:34 <sipa> yes, indeed
1363 2012-03-15 16:44:35 <etotheipi_> * err... skip the first line before "true"
1364 2012-03-15 16:45:11 <etotheipi_> the question is how to get that actually implemented using std::maps
1365 2012-03-15 16:45:18 <sipa> not only of that branch, right, you may need to go up after exploring the entire subbranch
1366 2012-03-15 16:45:31 <sipa> but if you only want the first match, you'll have it in one step
1367 2012-03-15 16:45:50 <sipa> (either it's immediately after <prefix>fffff, or it's not and you have a match)
1368 2012-03-15 16:46:23 <etotheipi_> that's straightforward if I wrote the map/tree class myself
1369 2012-03-15 16:46:39 <etotheipi_> I have to go check the documentation to see if I can do that with std::map
1370 2012-03-15 16:47:08 <etotheipi_> I think std::map is going to give me a yes/no whether "txHash" exists... no function for "get me the closest element..."
1371 2012-03-15 16:47:31 occulta has joined
1372 2012-03-15 16:47:32 <sipa> etotheipi_: there is, upper_bound
1373 2012-03-15 16:47:36 <etotheipi_> oh, you're right
1374 2012-03-15 16:47:47 <sipa> and then use ++ on the returned iterator
1375 2012-03-15 16:47:48 <etotheipi_> just found "lower_bound" and "upper_bound"
1376 2012-03-15 16:47:50 booo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1377 2012-03-15 16:48:11 <etotheipi_> so ++ will increment the iterator in sort-order?
1378 2012-03-15 16:48:14 <sipa> yes
1379 2012-03-15 16:48:22 <sipa> it does a DFS
1380 2012-03-15 16:48:34 <etotheipi_> (sorry, these are details of STL libraries that I was never sure about)
1381 2012-03-15 16:48:37 <sipa> afaik
1382 2012-03-15 16:49:01 <sipa> etotheipi_: well, i never wrote any serious C++ before I started with bitcoin
1383 2012-03-15 16:49:18 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1384 2012-03-15 16:49:27 <etotheipi_> strangely, we learned all sorts of crazy shit in the data structures class, and implemented everything by hand using pointers, templates, etc
1385 2012-03-15 16:49:42 <etotheipi_> but the instructor never showed us, or even mentioned that it was all avail in the STL
1386 2012-03-15 16:49:54 <etotheipi_> (well, most of it)
1387 2012-03-15 16:50:02 cande has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1388 2012-03-15 16:50:29 <sipa> maybe he didn't know :)
1389 2012-03-15 16:50:45 <etotheipi_> or maybe I skipped class that day...
1390 2012-03-15 16:50:49 <etotheipi_> :)
1391 2012-03-15 16:51:03 <etotheipi_> that was the most intense class I ever took
1392 2012-03-15 16:51:30 <etotheipi_> grading scale:  A=80%+, B=60%+, C=40%+, D=20%+
1393 2012-03-15 16:51:32 <etotheipi_> no curving
1394 2012-03-15 16:51:53 <sipa> what if you have 30%?
1395 2012-03-15 16:52:01 <etotheipi_> well then you got a D
1396 2012-03-15 16:52:02 <sipa> Oh, I missed the last +
1397 2012-03-15 16:52:31 <sipa> Is that unreasonable? (I'm not used to getting alphabetical characters as a grade)
1398 2012-03-15 16:52:50 <etotheipi_> all the tests were hand-written C++ methods like:  "Here's a variant of a red-black tree that does something special--write out a method for the level-order traversal of elements but skipping <blah>"
1399 2012-03-15 16:52:50 <andytoshi> yeah, a D is pretty bad
1400 2012-03-15 16:53:03 <andytoshi> usually won't let you get into courses that need it as a prerequisite
1401 2012-03-15 16:53:23 <andytoshi> etotheipi_: wow - my data structures class was a joke
1402 2012-03-15 16:53:32 <sipa> that sounds very reasonable to me, if you have less than 40%....
1403 2012-03-15 16:53:37 <etotheipi_> his scale was accurate though, the average on all the tests was 40%
1404 2012-03-15 16:53:38 <andytoshi> never show up, never learn C++, write the final in pseudocode, get an A
1405 2012-03-15 16:54:46 <sipa> (here the rule is basically get 50% for every course, with some small exceptions)
1406 2012-03-15 16:54:51 <etotheipi_> and for instance... you think you understand pointers, until he gives you a homework where you have to write the allocators and deallocators for int*[N]** and int[N}*[N]*
1407 2012-03-15 16:55:04 <sipa> etotheipi_: wow
1408 2012-03-15 16:55:17 <sipa> i never learned C++ at university even
1409 2012-03-15 16:55:19 <etotheipi_> but now I'm pretty sure I *do* understand pointers :))
1410 2012-03-15 16:55:27 <sipa> everything was Java
1411 2012-03-15 16:55:32 <etotheipi_> well that's why I took the course... because I never had formal C++
1412 2012-03-15 16:55:40 <etotheipi_> and I got a lot more than I bargained for
1413 2012-03-15 16:56:00 <andytoshi> everything was Java at my school too - that's why i went into pure math
1414 2012-03-15 16:56:15 <etotheipi_> I never understood how you do datastructures in Java
1415 2012-03-15 16:56:15 <andytoshi> no point spending money on a CS degree, when i wouldn't be leaning a damn thing
1416 2012-03-15 16:56:17 <etotheipi_> it doesn't use pointers
1417 2012-03-15 16:56:33 <etotheipi_> or do they just teach you how to use canned structures?
1418 2012-03-15 16:56:34 <andytoshi> from what i've seen of their homework assignments
1419 2012-03-15 16:56:37 <andytoshi> very badly
1420 2012-03-15 16:56:43 Davincij15 has joined
1421 2012-03-15 16:56:53 <sipa> etotheipi_: how do you mean Java has no pointers? *everything* is a pointer in Java ;)
1422 2012-03-15 16:57:03 <etotheipi_> well I have no Java experience
1423 2012-03-15 16:57:05 <sipa> Though without pointer arithmetic.
1424 2012-03-15 16:57:09 <andytoshi> sipa's got it - it's very confusing
1425 2012-03-15 16:57:44 <etotheipi_> well thanks for pointing out upper_bound and lower_bound... I will actually use that
1426 2012-03-15 16:57:48 <sipa> In C++ you at least can control value or reference semantics. In Java it's implicit.
1427 2012-03-15 16:58:09 t7 has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356])
1428 2012-03-15 16:58:09 <andytoshi> to be fair, in C++ a lot of stuff is still implicit
1429 2012-03-15 16:58:21 <etotheipi_> hehe, I use C++ for the same reason I drive a manual transmission:  I like full control over everything :)
1430 2012-03-15 16:58:40 <andytoshi> haha, i use C for that reason
1431 2012-03-15 16:58:56 <sipa> I used to think the same; bitcoin taught me otherwise.
1432 2012-03-15 16:59:08 <sipa> I really wouldn't want to write something like that in C anymore.
1433 2012-03-15 16:59:27 <andytoshi> it's a PITA, but i'd prefer it to C++ imho
1434 2012-03-15 16:59:29 <BlueMatt> sipa: an average scale is 90+% A, 80+% B, 70+% C, 60+% D
1435 2012-03-15 16:59:32 <andytoshi> but i'd prefer lisp or python even more
1436 2012-03-15 16:59:48 <BlueMatt> sipa: so, yea a 20% scale for each letter is pretty crazy
1437 2012-03-15 16:59:59 <BlueMatt> (though most classes are curved, so...)
1438 2012-03-15 17:00:03 <andytoshi> for lower-division courses, BlueMatt is right
1439 2012-03-15 17:00:07 <BlueMatt> well, yea
1440 2012-03-15 17:00:18 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1441 2012-03-15 17:00:19 <andytoshi> upper-div, sometimes you'll get profs assigning research problems
1442 2012-03-15 17:00:25 <andytoshi> like, unsolved research problems
1443 2012-03-15 17:00:25 <sipa> BlueMatt: i don't get how etotheipi_'s class was harder than; you told me now that in a normal class, you fail with 60%+?
1444 2012-03-15 17:00:51 <andytoshi> because in BlueMatt's sorta class, you can sleep through it and get 90%
1445 2012-03-15 17:01:03 <andytoshi> it's all common-sense stuff to anyone who's touched a computer
1446 2012-03-15 17:01:24 <sipa> i don't understand how that is related to the grading scale
1447 2012-03-15 17:02:03 <andytoshi> it's related in the sort of students it selects for
1448 2012-03-15 17:02:46 cande has joined
1449 2012-03-15 17:02:59 <andytoshi> your average high-school-teacher-track CS student won't touch a course with a 40% average
1450 2012-03-15 17:03:00 <sipa> it seems to me to be exactly the opposite, but i guess i am doomed to misunderstand the US ;)
1451 2012-03-15 17:03:02 <andytoshi> for fear of getting 0%
1452 2012-03-15 17:03:26 <andytoshi> it's a pretty funny place
1453 2012-03-15 17:03:43 <andytoshi> (i'm in canada, just extrapolating, but i know many americans and it doesn't seem too different)
1454 2012-03-15 17:03:55 BlueMatt has joined
1455 2012-03-15 17:04:14 <sipa> BlueMatt: i don't get how etotheipi_'s class was harder than; you told me now that in a normal class, you fail with 60%+?
1456 2012-03-15 17:04:46 <wumpus> BlueMatt: nope, but I can build one again
1457 2012-03-15 17:04:55 <BlueMatt> because if they have to change the grading scale to make it easier, then the class must be harder ;)
1458 2012-03-15 17:05:10 <BlueMatt> not that its harder to pass, but that the material is harder
1459 2012-03-15 17:05:14 <BlueMatt> wumpus: would you mind doing that?
1460 2012-03-15 17:05:21 <BlueMatt> I dont care how old, it just has to be bitcoin-qt
1461 2012-03-15 17:05:26 <BlueMatt> it can be 0.4.X for all I care
1462 2012-03-15 17:05:46 <wumpus> no problem, I'll see if I can get around to it later today
1463 2012-03-15 17:06:29 <wumpus> I suppose you it want to debug the walletlock problem?
1464 2012-03-15 17:06:39 <BlueMatt> yea, thats what Im looking at
1465 2012-03-15 17:07:08 <etotheipi_> in the US, almost every class uses 10% grading levels, with <60% == failing
1466 2012-03-15 17:07:13 forsetifox has joined
1467 2012-03-15 17:07:25 <etotheipi_> occasionally really hard classes will have custom scales
1468 2012-03-15 17:07:50 <etotheipi_> and almost all classes will curve:  if everyone failed a test, then the scale is adjusted to accommodate the fact that the test was too hard
1469 2012-03-15 17:08:21 <etotheipi_> in this case, the prof's attitude was "I taught you everything that is on these tests:  if you all failed it, then none of you were paying attention"
1470 2012-03-15 17:09:12 tower has joined
1471 2012-03-15 17:10:28 <Joric> andytoshi, i got a CS degree :P though now i see it was pretty lousy investment i could be a lawyer
1472 2012-03-15 17:11:09 <BlueMatt> well, except for some highschools that are still on the 7% scale (93%, 85%, ...)
1473 2012-03-15 17:11:09 <BlueMatt> (not 7 even, but ~7)
1474 2012-03-15 17:12:34 <tcatm> luke-jr: What "forum version thing"?
1475 2012-03-15 17:12:44 <luke-jr> tcatm: nm, that's for theymos
1476 2012-03-15 17:13:02 <tcatm> kk
1477 2012-03-15 17:13:12 <sipa> etotheipi_: but you only fail your course with <40, while BlueMatt fails with <60; how can that be harder?
1478 2012-03-15 17:13:27 <tcatm> Looks like bitcoin.org has been updated. Strange...
1479 2012-03-15 17:13:28 <sipa> *your be harder
1480 2012-03-15 17:13:33 <andytoshi> because the two courses will have different material, and different markers
1481 2012-03-15 17:13:49 <etotheipi_> sipa, it's because only super-hard classes adjust their grading scale that severely
1482 2012-03-15 17:14:05 <sipa> andytoshi: ok, but etotheipi_ used the grading scale as an argument that it was hard, while i just don't see it
1483 2012-03-15 17:14:11 <sipa> etotheipi_: ...
1484 2012-03-15 17:14:13 <etotheipi_> you're right, the numbers are kind of arbitrary, but the point is more about how severely deformed it is relative to other classes
1485 2012-03-15 17:14:14 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1486 2012-03-15 17:14:48 <sipa> i must be missing what A/B/C/D and 80/60/40/20 mean for you
1487 2012-03-15 17:14:52 <etotheipi_> if they don't use the {A,B,C,D,Fail}={90, 80, 70, 60, <60} scale, usually it's for a good reason
1488 2012-03-15 17:14:54 <Joric> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOtoujYOWw0 "can he live a normal life? No, he'll be an engineer"
1489 2012-03-15 17:15:05 <andytoshi> if the grading scheme is lower, the worse people tend to do, so the harder it must be, so only smart people must take it, so it'll be curved very hard
1490 2012-03-15 17:15:15 <andytoshi> or maybe the prof is just incomprehensible
1491 2012-03-15 17:15:33 <andytoshi> and only students who read texts independently can pass
1492 2012-03-15 17:15:54 <andytoshi> for example, i'm in a second-year "intro to quantum physics" class, in which the prof is going on about hilbert spaces and hermitian adjoints
1493 2012-03-15 17:16:03 <andytoshi> and i'm fine, since i'm a 4th-year maths major
1494 2012-03-15 17:16:05 <andytoshi> but nobody else is
1495 2012-03-15 17:16:22 <etotheipi_> and with such a scale, the instructor is basically declaring that the average student is going to fail to know half (or less) of the questions on the tests
1496 2012-03-15 17:16:28 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: do you reckon at least part of AreInputsStandard should be considered a DoS bugfix?
1497 2012-03-15 17:16:41 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: ie, make sure the input's scriptPubKey is "standard"
1498 2012-03-15 17:18:27 <etotheipi_> and when an instructor "curves" a test: it's always in the students' favor:  if everyone gets 95%, then everyone gets A's... but if everyone gets 60%... then he might adjust the scale to be 70% is A, 65% is B, etc
1499 2012-03-15 17:18:48 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: dunno, have more important things to think about
1500 2012-03-15 17:19:42 <etotheipi_> so a class that is explicitly uncurved means you get screwed if he misjudges and makes a test that is too hard
1501 2012-03-15 17:21:07 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1502 2012-03-15 17:21:47 <sipa> what does 'curving' mean in this context?
1503 2012-03-15 17:22:02 <etotheipi_> see 2 messages ago
1504 2012-03-15 17:22:54 <etotheipi_> sipa, it means the scale will be adjusted based on the average score (if necessary, to avoid too many people failing)
1505 2012-03-15 17:23:38 <sipa> ok, i begin to see
1506 2012-03-15 17:24:15 slush has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1507 2012-03-15 17:26:03 <TuxBlackEdo> hey guys
1508 2012-03-15 17:26:06 <TuxBlackEdo> its my birthday
1509 2012-03-15 17:26:10 <TuxBlackEdo> :D
1510 2012-03-15 17:26:15 <andytoshi> happy birthday
1511 2012-03-15 17:26:22 <TuxBlackEdo> thank you :D
1512 2012-03-15 17:26:26 <BlueMatt> happy birthday
1513 2012-03-15 17:26:32 <TuxBlackEdo> thanks :)
1514 2012-03-15 17:26:45 <TuxBlackEdo> beware the ides of march
1515 2012-03-15 17:26:47 <TuxBlackEdo> :P
1516 2012-03-15 17:27:32 <TuxBlackEdo> and andrew jackson's birthday
1517 2012-03-15 17:29:38 archo47 has quit ()
1518 2012-03-15 17:29:38 <Joric> thought his name is michael
1519 2012-03-15 17:30:32 t7 has joined
1520 2012-03-15 17:36:20 Turingi has joined
1521 2012-03-15 17:38:56 graingert has joined
1522 2012-03-15 17:41:31 tower has joined
1523 2012-03-15 17:41:40 rdponticelli has joined
1524 2012-03-15 17:44:34 tower has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1525 2012-03-15 17:45:13 Karmaon has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8-dev)
1526 2012-03-15 17:46:01 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1527 2012-03-15 17:46:06 pklaus has quit ()
1528 2012-03-15 17:46:41 pusle has joined
1529 2012-03-15 17:48:14 Karmaon has joined
1530 2012-03-15 17:49:52 <TuxBlackEdo> so
1531 2012-03-15 17:49:59 <TuxBlackEdo> what did you guys get me for my bday?
1532 2012-03-15 17:50:32 * BlueMatt -> class
1533 2012-03-15 17:50:34 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1534 2012-03-15 17:50:40 PK_ has joined
1535 2012-03-15 17:51:09 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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1537 2012-03-15 17:52:46 occulta has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
1538 2012-03-15 17:55:51 <TuxBlackEdo> ok fine...
1539 2012-03-15 17:55:55 <TuxBlackEdo> i see how it is
1540 2012-03-15 17:56:11 <pusle> bitcoin.org is down?
1541 2012-03-15 17:56:23 <TuxBlackEdo> yep
1542 2012-03-15 17:56:29 <TuxBlackEdo> ;;web fetch http://bitcoin.org
1543 2012-03-15 17:56:33 <TuxBlackEdo> it's down
1544 2012-03-15 17:56:35 <gribble> timed out
1545 2012-03-15 17:56:35 <pusle> :&
1546 2012-03-15 17:56:41 <TuxBlackEdo> because you are all ignoring me
1547 2012-03-15 17:56:45 <sipa> bad github, bad
1548 2012-03-15 17:57:04 <TuxBlackEdo> nobody got me anything for my bday :(
1549 2012-03-15 17:57:15 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1550 2012-03-15 17:57:17 ThomasV has joined
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1557 2012-03-15 18:10:06 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1558 2012-03-15 18:10:07 <gavinandresen> bitcoin.org is up for me right now
1559 2012-03-15 18:10:29 <sipa> refresh?
1560 2012-03-15 18:10:31 <gavinandresen> yup
1561 2012-03-15 18:12:21 <Joric> set macosx size to ~15 mb already i don't want to submit another pull request for that )
1562 2012-03-15 18:13:13 <gavinandresen> sipa:  So I was thinking about single-transaction blocks, and maybe a rule to make it painful for the person generating them.  Something like:  If you see a transaction with inputs that are coinbases from unreasonable single-transaction blocks, don't accept it into your memory pool.
1563 2012-03-15 18:13:55 <Joric> bitcoin-0.5.3-macosx.dmg is 14.7 MB atm
1564 2012-03-15 18:13:57 <gavinandresen> ... where an "unreasonable single transaction block" is a block with lots of difficult, generated more than (say) two minutes after previous block, and just the coinbase txn
1565 2012-03-15 18:14:17 <phantomcircuit> it's up
1566 2012-03-15 18:14:29 Joric has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1567 2012-03-15 18:14:45 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, dont do dat
1568 2012-03-15 18:14:55 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: why not?
1569 2012-03-15 18:14:56 <phantomcircuit> unexpected consequences with the difficult calculation
1570 2012-03-15 18:14:59 <sipa> gavinandresen: i think it's too easy to avoid
1571 2012-03-15 18:15:04 Joric has joined
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1573 2012-03-15 18:15:04 Joric has joined
1574 2012-03-15 18:15:15 <phantomcircuit> you'll significantly increase the average time between blocks
1575 2012-03-15 18:15:18 <gavinandresen> sipa:  probably...
1576 2012-03-15 18:15:19 <sipa> they'll just start adding self-created back-and-forth transactions or i don't know what
1577 2012-03-15 18:15:38 <phantomcircuit> also blocks are actually very computationally cheap for clients
1578 2012-03-15 18:15:51 <phantomcircuit> so what's the point?
1579 2012-03-15 18:15:57 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1580 2012-03-15 18:16:05 <luke-jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/w/bitcoind/luke-jr.git/commitdiff/b2f0b7bf64ab82cf4f8fc3cca2e3bc208e153fb0
1581 2012-03-15 18:16:07 <luke-jr> ^ plz review
1582 2012-03-15 18:16:12 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: huh?  Not accepting txns from "smelly" blocks into your memory pool wont' affect generation at all
1583 2012-03-15 18:16:26 <loktigon> gavin rules!!
1584 2012-03-15 18:16:44 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, it will on the average discourage them from being incorporated into the blockchain
1585 2012-03-15 18:17:00 <gavinandresen> sipa: actually, an out-of-band list of "these are blocks/transactions that I want to shun" could work
1586 2012-03-15 18:17:36 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: right, that's the point.  Make it painful for the person who is creating single-transaction blocks because they're too lazy to do anything more complicated.
1587 2012-03-15 18:18:10 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: I'd rather see gmaxwell's fix.
1588 2012-03-15 18:18:15 <phantomcircuit> well the risk is minimal
1589 2012-03-15 18:18:20 <gavinandresen> sipa: ... then as blocks come in, if I see a block that doesn't remove any transactions from the memory pool I could vote that it be included
1590 2012-03-15 18:18:50 <gavinandresen> luke-jr:  I'd rather see gmaxwell's fix, too.
1591 2012-03-15 18:19:04 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, realistically though just get the pools to do that
1592 2012-03-15 18:19:14 <phantomcircuit> except then you have an intentional race to fork
1593 2012-03-15 18:19:25 <phantomcircuit> which is bad for a whole other set of reasons
1594 2012-03-15 18:19:29 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: I'm not following you at all.
1595 2012-03-15 18:19:42 mod6_ is now known as mod6
1596 2012-03-15 18:19:53 <gavinandresen> There's no fork risk in excluding transactions from your memory pool.  You'll still accept them if they DO make it into a block.
1597 2012-03-15 18:20:01 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, if any of the pools include the block in their chain you're basically stuck with it
1598 2012-03-15 18:20:24 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, you were talking about excluding the block from being the HEAD were you not
1599 2012-03-15 18:20:44 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: no, I'm talking about shunning transactions that spend coinbases from "smelly" blocks
1600 2012-03-15 18:21:00 <gavinandresen> (not relaying them, not including them in blocks I mine).
1601 2012-03-15 18:21:06 <phantomcircuit> that's even worse
1602 2012-03-15 18:21:14 <gavinandresen> It's a very gentle way of making life more difficult for lazy miners.
1603 2012-03-15 18:21:14 <phantomcircuit> you're basically making the coinbase unspendable
1604 2012-03-15 18:21:27 <sipa> it's a miner
1605 2012-03-15 18:21:27 TD has joined
1606 2012-03-15 18:21:28 <luke-jr> …
1607 2012-03-15 18:21:29 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: if they're mining, they'll eventually mine it themselves
1608 2012-03-15 18:21:39 <sipa> he has computation power, so they'll just mine it themselves
1609 2012-03-15 18:21:40 <gavinandresen> ... unless they're not including transactions in blocks!
1610 2012-03-15 18:21:47 <luke-jr> hahaha
1611 2012-03-15 18:21:48 <luke-jr> nice
1612 2012-03-15 18:21:50 <phantomcircuit> yeah maybe
1613 2012-03-15 18:21:51 <phantomcircuit> iono
1614 2012-03-15 18:21:53 <phantomcircuit> once a year
1615 2012-03-15 18:22:27 <gavinandresen> Yup.  As I said, the goal would be to make it painful enough somebody would think twice about creating bad-for-everybody-else blocks.
1616 2012-03-15 18:22:46 <andytoshi> well, people could demand fees to put smelly-coinbase transactions in their blocks
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1618 2012-03-15 18:23:00 <luke-jr> andytoshi: yeah, that's what I was just thinking
1619 2012-03-15 18:23:06 <andytoshi> still inconvienient, but not on the order of years
1620 2012-03-15 18:23:07 <luke-jr> I already shun some transactions with higher fee requirements
1621 2012-03-15 18:23:11 <gavinandresen> Sure.  That's another way of being painful....
1622 2012-03-15 18:23:14 <luke-jr> (ones that look like data)
1623 2012-03-15 18:23:18 <TuxBlackEdo> you could just make blocks only be able to get accepted if they have at least 50% of all transactions of the accepting nodes
1624 2012-03-15 18:23:28 <TuxBlackEdo> i mean all other nodes keep track of pending txns too, right?
1625 2012-03-15 18:23:41 <luke-jr> TuxBlackEdo: no
1626 2012-03-15 18:23:45 <sipa> that's very dangerous
1627 2012-03-15 18:23:47 <andytoshi> nobody knows the state of "all accepting nodes"
1628 2012-03-15 18:23:53 <TuxBlackEdo> so if there is 8 transactions, the new block should at least include 4 of those transactions
1629 2012-03-15 18:24:07 <TuxBlackEdo> to be accepted
1630 2012-03-15 18:24:08 <andytoshi> or else what?
1631 2012-03-15 18:24:17 <andytoshi> it sounds like you're suggesting forking the chain
1632 2012-03-15 18:24:23 <sipa> k
1633 2012-03-15 18:24:32 <sipa> that's a change that could be done by miner consensus
1634 2012-03-15 18:24:35 <TuxBlackEdo> or else it doesn't get accepted and doesn't propegate
1635 2012-03-15 18:24:43 <luke-jr> TuxBlackEdo: and what if all 8 of those are spam?
1636 2012-03-15 18:24:52 <luke-jr> TuxBlackEdo: punish the miner with good anti-spam?
1637 2012-03-15 18:25:26 <sipa> what about this: introduce a discouragement rule that counts the bitcoin-days-destroyed of a block
1638 2012-03-15 18:25:46 <andytoshi> i think gavin's goal here is to disincentivize lazy programmers
1639 2012-03-15 18:25:48 <gavinandresen> I like the punish-when-the-coinbase-is-redeemed because there's no chance of a chain fork.  And the "what to punish" criteria is flexible
1640 2012-03-15 18:25:49 <andytoshi> not deliberate attackers
1641 2012-03-15 18:26:03 <luke-jr> sipa: I'm going to make Eligius include a "send myself the entire buffer" in every block…
1642 2012-03-15 18:26:21 <gavinandresen> (e.g. create a really expensive-to-redeem block with transactions nobody else has seen might be a good "smelly" criteria)
1643 2012-03-15 18:26:24 <andytoshi> basically, once you've got code to accept transactions, there's no reason (computationally) not to accept them all
1644 2012-03-15 18:27:14 <sipa> luke-jr: meh, until people add a discouragment rule for "if-from-luke" ;)
1645 2012-03-15 18:27:23 <luke-jr> sipa: I don't use green addresses.
1646 2012-03-15 18:27:29 <sipa> Good.
1647 2012-03-15 18:28:01 <sipa> actually, it should be bitcoin-blocks-destroyed
1648 2012-03-15 18:28:02 <gavinandresen> sipa:  it's only effective if almost everybody agrees on the "what should be punished" rules
1649 2012-03-15 18:28:14 <sipa> so a later block has no inherent advantage
1650 2012-03-15 18:28:42 <TuxBlackEdo> why exactly is it a problem for miners to not include any transactions?
1651 2012-03-15 18:28:50 <luke-jr> TuxBlackEdo: see CLC
1652 2012-03-15 18:28:51 <TuxBlackEdo> other then longer confirmation times
1653 2012-03-15 18:29:07 <gavinandresen> TuxBlackEdo: just longer confirmation times.
1654 2012-03-15 18:29:11 <sipa> TuxBlackEdo: it makes the currency useless? (if everyone did it)
1655 2012-03-15 18:29:38 <luke-jr> it's a problem for me because I get paid less for mining :P
1656 2012-03-15 18:29:49 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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1658 2012-03-15 18:30:16 <TuxBlackEdo> well there is no way to fix the problem without forking the chain if new blocks don't follow certain rules... right?
1659 2012-03-15 18:30:47 <luke-jr> TuxBlackEdo: the problem is making those rules reasonable
1660 2012-03-15 18:31:21 <gavinandresen> TuxBlackEdo: no, we can influence incentives without changing the block rules
1661 2012-03-15 18:32:21 tower has joined
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1663 2012-03-15 18:34:00 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: sourceforge is recommending 0.5.2 over 0.5.3 O.o
1664 2012-03-15 18:34:50 <gavinandresen> luke-jr:  fixed
1665 2012-03-15 18:35:11 <gavinandresen> (might take sourceforge a few minutes to clear its cache)
1666 2012-03-15 18:36:39 <luke-jr> [13:52:30] <chem|st> fyi: a friend just got his bank account locked for trying to send money to intersango…
1667 2012-03-15 18:36:42 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1668 2012-03-15 18:38:04 <andytoshi> what country?
1669 2012-03-15 18:38:04 <Joric> bitcoin.org reports wrong size for bitcoin-0.5.3-macosx.dmg it's 14.7 MB, not ~8
1670 2012-03-15 18:41:12 <luke-jr> andytoshi: apparently Poland
1671 2012-03-15 18:41:25 <luke-jr> [14:37:00] <chem|st> reason for lockage was that the bank assumed a troyan on his computer and locked him out from his eBanking
1672 2012-03-15 18:43:09 <andytoshi> oh, sounds like just incompetence
1673 2012-03-15 18:44:20 rodrigorcm-afk has joined
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1677 2012-03-15 18:57:45 <etotheipi_> anyone know of a decent GUI for git management in Linux?
1678 2012-03-15 18:58:48 <andytoshi> nope, and i'd bet that none exists ;)
1679 2012-03-15 18:58:55 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1680 2012-03-15 18:58:56 <etotheipi_> of course it exists...
1681 2012-03-15 18:59:04 <etotheipi_> I'm just looking for recommendations... there's too many options
1682 2012-03-15 18:59:06 <TD> andytoshi: incompetence, or the bank has observed malware-driven transactions to intersango before :(
1683 2012-03-15 18:59:13 <andytoshi> wait, i'm lying ... one was mentioned in the progit book
1684 2012-03-15 18:59:16 <andytoshi> one moment
1685 2012-03-15 18:59:24 <TD> andytoshi: why it's even possible for malware to initiate bank wires is an open question. 2 factor auth isn't that hard
1686 2012-03-15 18:59:28 <etotheipi_> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1516720/git-gui-client-for-linux
1687 2012-03-15 18:59:34 user__ has joined
1688 2012-03-15 18:59:35 <andytoshi> TD: banks are ludicrously paranoid
1689 2012-03-15 18:59:54 <andytoshi> they probably read about bitcoin-mining trojans somewhere and freaked out
1690 2012-03-15 19:00:07 <TD> probably not
1691 2012-03-15 19:00:11 booo has joined
1692 2012-03-15 19:00:16 <TD> bank wires aren't typically reviewed by hand
1693 2012-03-15 19:00:30 <TD> and besides, what makes you think a  polish bank would know anything about intersango?
1694 2012-03-15 19:00:34 <andytoshi> no, but visa makes me change my card number 2-3 times a year
1695 2012-03-15 19:00:49 <andytoshi> my bank makes me change my debit card around once a year
1696 2012-03-15 19:00:51 <andytoshi> for crazy reasons
1697 2012-03-15 19:01:10 <andytoshi> "you bought a donut within 5km of a debit machine breach rumor
1698 2012-03-15 19:01:30 FaktioNN has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1699 2012-03-15 19:01:33 <TD> given that the numbers are fixed rotating them is good practice
1700 2012-03-15 19:01:34 tower has joined
1701 2012-03-15 19:01:36 <TD> that's why CCs expire
1702 2012-03-15 19:01:37 en729 has joined
1703 2012-03-15 19:01:39 FaktioNN has joined
1704 2012-03-15 19:01:45 <TD> though it'd be even better if they weren't such a ridiculously insecure mechanism to begin with
1705 2012-03-15 19:02:05 <andytoshi> i've never hit an expiry date before visa decided the card was bad
1706 2012-03-15 19:02:09 <andytoshi> very true
1707 2012-03-15 19:02:25 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Beware of programmers who carry screwdrivers.)
1708 2012-03-15 19:02:53 <andytoshi> i dunno, i think he transferred a weirdly large amount of money, which causes a manual check
1709 2012-03-15 19:03:07 <TD> could be
1710 2012-03-15 19:03:10 <TD> if you never did a bank wire befire
1711 2012-03-15 19:03:11 <TD> before
1712 2012-03-15 19:03:19 <andytoshi> which showed that he didn't normally transfer so much money, especially to this weird "bitcoin" outfit
1713 2012-03-15 19:03:19 <TD> no? i never had a CC be revoked on me
1714 2012-03-15 19:03:40 <andytoshi> hmm, maybe it's just a canada thing
1715 2012-03-15 19:04:02 <sipa> i never had a credit card :)
1716 2012-03-15 19:04:02 <andytoshi> or just a vancouver thing..
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1742 2012-03-15 19:56:24 <jjjrmy-m> jarpiain
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1747 2012-03-15 20:02:14 <jjjrmy-m> Okay, I need some help. I am looking to make an InstaWallet wrapper but would like to track Sent/Received transactions. I know I can get the received transactions, but how can I get the sent transactions?
1748 2012-03-15 20:05:38 ThomasV has joined
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1756 2012-03-15 20:20:36 <user__> tcatm: hi, i liked it: 188.138.99.157/stuff/qtvert16.png
1757 2012-03-15 20:20:57 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1758 2012-03-15 20:21:05 <user__> tcatm: could you just remove sidebar border?
1759 2012-03-15 20:21:22 pickett has joined
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1761 2012-03-15 20:27:37 Cory has quit ()
1762 2012-03-15 20:29:41 <jjjrmy-m> user__: ooh, what is that? looks nice
1763 2012-03-15 20:33:05 <jjjrmy-m> How do I put pictures into a button/input?
1764 2012-03-15 20:33:12 agricocb has joined
1765 2012-03-15 20:34:24 <Joric> i hate those + - icons
1766 2012-03-15 20:35:43 <Joric> they look linux-y
1767 2012-03-15 20:40:12 <_Fireball> Hey. Anyone familiar with Monitor Address patch?
1768 2012-03-15 20:43:28 molecular has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1772 2012-03-15 20:50:04 smtmnyz_ is now known as smtmnyz
1773 2012-03-15 20:50:52 <_Fireball> Ok, till tomorrow then. Bye.
1774 2012-03-15 20:50:55 _Fireball has quit (Quit:  HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC with a difference)
1775 2012-03-15 20:52:56 <graingert> gavinandresen: still no sigs on bitcoin builds?
1776 2012-03-15 20:53:28 <BlueMatt> graingert: of course there are sigs (on everything but mac)
1777 2012-03-15 20:53:38 RedEmerald has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1778 2012-03-15 20:53:41 <BlueMatt> graingert: https://github.com/bitcoin/gitian.sigs/
1779 2012-03-15 20:54:22 <graingert> BlueMatt: 0.5.3rc4 ?
1780 2012-03-15 20:54:39 <BlueMatt> rc4 == release
1781 2012-03-15 20:54:45 <graingert> release candidate
1782 2012-03-15 20:54:45 <BlueMatt> (in this case)
1783 2012-03-15 20:54:48 <graingert> ic
1784 2012-03-15 20:54:52 <gavinandresen> I didn't build 0.5.3rc4 so I didn't sign it....
1785 2012-03-15 20:54:53 <graingert> seems odd
1786 2012-03-15 20:55:05 <BlueMatt> well there were no bugs, so rc4 was released as final
1787 2012-03-15 20:55:08 <graingert> can they be linked off of the release notes?
1788 2012-03-15 20:55:11 <BlueMatt> no need to change anything if there is nothing wrong...
1789 2012-03-15 20:55:22 <graingert> no version bump?
1790 2012-03-15 20:56:57 <BlueMatt> there is no version embedded in the files, so no
1791 2012-03-15 20:57:00 <BlueMatt> just renamed the files
1792 2012-03-15 20:57:14 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Oops. My brain just hit a bad sector)
1793 2012-03-15 20:57:15 <graingert> where is the about text read from?
1794 2012-03-15 20:57:29 <graingert> ah that one is 0.5.3-beta
1795 2012-03-15 20:57:38 <graingert> rather than rc4
1796 2012-03-15 20:58:17 <BlueMatt> we dont usually put rcX in the about text
1797 2012-03-15 20:58:26 <graingert> fair enough
1798 2012-03-15 20:58:39 <graingert> they should still be linked off of http://bitcoin.org/releases/2012/03/14/v0.5.3.html
1799 2012-03-15 20:58:50 <graingert> afaik
1800 2012-03-15 20:58:55 <graingert> imhop*
1801 2012-03-15 21:00:48 <graingert> seems only the source is signed
1802 2012-03-15 21:00:55 JRWR has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1803 2012-03-15 21:01:21 <graingert> hmm
1804 2012-03-15 21:01:24 <BlueMatt> nope, exes are in there too
1805 2012-03-15 21:01:36 <BlueMatt> or a.outs depending on platform
1806 2012-03-15 21:01:50 <graingert> hmm, I think I just found a security hole in mozilla's pushState
1807 2012-03-15 21:01:56 <BlueMatt> (whats the proper term for a linux executable, because writing out linux executable is a bit long...)
1808 2012-03-15 21:02:45 <graingert> on github, press back at the same time press stumble-upon.
1809 2012-03-15 21:02:56 <graingert> then it looks like I'm on an ssl github page but I'm not
1810 2012-03-15 21:03:01 <graingert> BlueMatt: ELF
1811 2012-03-15 21:03:09 <graingert> bin ?
1812 2012-03-15 21:03:15 <BlueMatt> meh
1813 2012-03-15 21:03:17 <graingert> blob
1814 2012-03-15 21:03:27 <BlueMatt> bin blob maybe
1815 2012-03-15 21:03:43 <BlueMatt> though thats not descriptive either
1816 2012-03-15 21:03:50 <BlueMatt> whatever the linux exes are signed too
1817 2012-03-15 21:05:34 <luke-jr> FWIW, Eligius is running only 3 merges ahead of master now
1818 2012-03-15 21:05:38 <graingert> anyway it's generally discouraged because you "should" compile from source
1819 2012-03-15 21:05:56 <luke-jr> hub_mode_irc, eligius_blocker (acceptance rules), and free_relay
1820 2012-03-15 21:05:59 <graingert> hence why there is no name for them
1821 2012-03-15 21:06:03 <BlueMatt> true
1822 2012-03-15 21:06:11 <luke-jr> graingert: well, no
1823 2012-03-15 21:06:18 <luke-jr> you *should* use distro-provided binaries :P
1824 2012-03-15 21:06:23 <luke-jr> or packages anyhow
1825 2012-03-15 21:06:37 <luke-jr> only Debian and Gentoo have those afaik tho
1826 2012-03-15 21:06:38 <graingert> well yes, but historically it was always compile by hand
1827 2012-03-15 21:06:52 <graingert> slackware etc
1828 2012-03-15 21:07:05 <luke-jr> even Slackware had bins
1829 2012-03-15 21:07:10 <graingert> fair enough
1830 2012-03-15 21:07:32 <luke-jr> why does Debian testing still have 0.3.24? -.-
1831 2012-03-15 21:07:52 <BlueMatt> huh, last I checked it was 0.5.X
1832 2012-03-15 21:08:02 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: unstable has 0.5.2
1833 2012-03-15 21:08:08 <luke-jr> but you're not supposed to actually run that
1834 2012-03-15 21:08:08 <graingert> wget https://raw.github.com/bitcoin/gitian.sigs/master/0.5.3rc4/bluematt/bitcoin-build.assert -O - | grep "exe"
1835 2012-03-15 21:08:09 <BlueMatt> oh, yea wtf?
1836 2012-03-15 21:08:13 Diablo-D3 has joined
1837 2012-03-15 21:08:27 <luke-jr> maybe because of whatever's holding mips/ppc/s390/sparc back?
1838 2012-03-15 21:08:28 <BlueMatt> graingert: why would a linux exe be called *exe?
1839 2012-03-15 21:08:35 <graingert> BlueMatt: windows bin
1840 2012-03-15 21:08:35 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ah, that could be it
1841 2012-03-15 21:08:36 <luke-jr> I thought those never worked tho
1842 2012-03-15 21:08:45 <BlueMatt> graingert: different top-level dir for those
1843 2012-03-15 21:08:50 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: they didnt
1844 2012-03-15 21:08:59 <BlueMatt> may just be testsuite got added
1845 2012-03-15 21:09:21 <graingert> BlueMatt: when it's a mono app
1846 2012-03-15 21:09:28 <graingert> Tomboy.exe
1847 2012-03-15 21:09:54 <BlueMatt> well, ok
1848 2012-03-15 21:10:00 <graingert> anyway that's beside the point - are the windows bins signed? or am I just too dumb to find it
1849 2012-03-15 21:10:00 <BlueMatt> but we dont have any of those
1850 2012-03-15 21:10:08 <BlueMatt> yea, a different top level dir has those
1851 2012-03-15 21:10:18 <BlueMatt> gitian.sigs/master/0.5.3rc4-win32
1852 2012-03-15 21:10:21 <BlueMatt> instead of
1853 2012-03-15 21:10:24 <BlueMatt> gitian.sigs/master/0.5.3rc4
1854 2012-03-15 21:10:29 <graingert> durp
1855 2012-03-15 21:10:57 <graingert> awesome
1856 2012-03-15 21:11:44 <graingert> tcatm hosts the bitcoin.org site?
1857 2012-03-15 21:12:17 <luke-jr> no, GitHub does
1858 2012-03-15 21:12:26 <graingert> I mean manages
1859 2012-03-15 21:13:07 <graingert> also now that GitHub does ssl, can the downloads be hosted from https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/downloads
1860 2012-03-15 21:13:17 <graingert> github*
1861 2012-03-15 21:14:05 <BlueMatt> tcatm: sort of manages it, but several people can push to it
1862 2012-03-15 21:14:07 <BlueMatt> its a git repo
1863 2012-03-15 21:14:11 <graingert> I know
1864 2012-03-15 21:14:14 <gavinandresen> We tried github ssl downloads a few months ago and they were flaky...
1865 2012-03-15 21:14:23 <graingert> flaky ?
1866 2012-03-15 21:14:30 <graingert> :(
1867 2012-03-15 21:14:39 <gavinandresen> Timeouts when downloading, if I recall.
1868 2012-03-15 21:14:56 <graingert> well I guess they don't have the wide range of mirrors
1869 2012-03-15 21:15:04 <gavinandresen> I would like to move to ssl-only downloads
1870 2012-03-15 21:15:09 <BlueMatt> meh, sf's mirrors suck too
1871 2012-03-15 21:15:13 vigilyn has joined
1872 2012-03-15 21:15:13 <BlueMatt> (always so slow)
1873 2012-03-15 21:15:30 <graingert> dev sigs are better than ssl
1874 2012-03-15 21:15:42 <gavinandresen> agreed, but security in depth is a good thing
1875 2012-03-15 21:15:42 <BlueMatt> gitian-downloader :)
1876 2012-03-15 21:15:57 <graingert> how do you deliver gitian-downloader?
1877 2012-03-15 21:16:07 <graingert> with a one time pad?
1878 2012-03-15 21:16:10 <BlueMatt> sure
1879 2012-03-15 21:16:15 <graingert> how do you deliver the...
1880 2012-03-15 21:16:20 <graingert> wait a minute
1881 2012-03-15 21:16:55 <BlueMatt> everyone can check the source of gitian-downloader (its a python script) ;)
1882 2012-03-15 21:17:04 <BlueMatt> but you have to get valid copies of dev pgp sigs first...
1883 2012-03-15 21:17:06 <luke-jr> interesting…
1884 2012-03-15 21:17:07 <BlueMatt> now that one is tricky
1885 2012-03-15 21:17:39 <graingert> let me check some of your sigs...
1886 2012-03-15 21:17:49 <luke-jr> walletpassphrase('realpassphrase', 'any non-integer type') will unlock the wallet, and never unlock it ever
1887 2012-03-15 21:17:54 <luke-jr> err re-lock*
1888 2012-03-15 21:18:03 <luke-jr> and give an error message ;)
1889 2012-03-15 21:18:23 <BlueMatt> why are you calling it with a non-integer type?
1890 2012-03-15 21:18:26 <BlueMatt> bitcoind wont let you do that
1891 2012-03-15 21:18:41 <luke-jr> bitcoind 0.3.23 will
1892 2012-03-15 21:18:43 <BlueMatt> deliberately ignoring spec falls under "undefined behavior"
1893 2012-03-15 21:19:05 <BlueMatt> ok, well up-to-date copies wont
1894 2012-03-15 21:19:11 <graingert> Java vs Python philosophy debate, go!
1895 2012-03-15 21:19:19 <luke-jr> I actually put a number, and 0.3.23 sent it as a string :p
1896 2012-03-15 21:19:26 <gavinandresen> 0.3.23 didnt' have walletpassphrase
1897 2012-03-15 21:19:31 <BlueMatt> graingert: thats religion, not philosophy
1898 2012-03-15 21:19:34 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: but it still sends commands to 0.6
1899 2012-03-15 21:19:55 <luke-jr> Eligius runs custom code for the pool itself, but the PATH includes a standard build
1900 2012-03-15 21:20:28 <luke-jr> anyhow, just thought I'd mention the interesting behaviour
1901 2012-03-15 21:20:42 <luke-jr> might make sense to catch it early, and allow null for 'never relock'
1902 2012-03-15 21:22:10 <graingert> BlueMatt: /dev/sigh
1903 2012-03-15 21:22:22 <BlueMatt> heh
1904 2012-03-15 21:22:37 <graingert> BlueMatt: what's your key id?
1905 2012-03-15 21:23:13 <BlueMatt> 43E08E54
1906 2012-03-15 21:24:12 <BlueMatt> Key fingerprint = 0A82 5097 67C7 D4A5 D14D  A230 1AE1 D350 43E0 8E54
1907 2012-03-15 21:26:38 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1908 2012-03-15 21:26:39 <graingert> neither sipa, nor your keys are hosted on bitcoin.org and worse it's not that well trusted
1909 2012-03-15 21:27:03 <BlueMatt> I know sipa's is
1910 2012-03-15 21:27:15 <BlueMatt> but if you've downloaded a copy of bitcoin for quite a while, you already have our sigs ;)
1911 2012-03-15 21:27:21 <BlueMatt> its in contrib/gitian-downloader
1912 2012-03-15 21:27:26 <BlueMatt> well src/...
1913 2012-03-15 21:34:44 cande has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
1914 2012-03-15 21:35:03 <graingert> it seems https://keyserver.pgp.com thinks my key is revoked
1915 2012-03-15 21:35:20 <graingert> http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0x991C1A9F5F6EEC4F I did revoke some encryption keys
1916 2012-03-15 21:35:32 <graingert> ie sub keys
1917 2012-03-15 21:36:25 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: laanwj opened pull request 941 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/941>
1918 2012-03-15 21:36:57 <BlueMatt> damn wumpus that problem just wont go away
1919 2012-03-15 21:37:31 <wumpus> no, it won't
1920 2012-03-15 21:37:34 <wumpus> this is the final try
1921 2012-03-15 21:37:38 Samuel has joined
1922 2012-03-15 21:37:42 <Samuel> Hello
1923 2012-03-15 21:37:46 <wumpus> if this doesn't solve it I'll nuke it from orbit
1924 2012-03-15 21:37:53 <graingert> wumpus: minimize to tray is a bad anyway
1925 2012-03-15 21:37:57 <graingert> afaik
1926 2012-03-15 21:38:06 <graingert> close to tray makes some sense
1927 2012-03-15 21:38:24 roconnor has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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1929 2012-03-15 21:38:33 <graingert> but a lot of os's are moving to a separate indicator system
1930 2012-03-15 21:38:52 <graingert> or dock
1931 2012-03-15 21:38:58 <wumpus> it shouldn't be rocket science, but we've had three different implementations now and they all sucked in some way
1932 2012-03-15 21:39:10 <wumpus> yes, close to tray makes more sense, no argument there...
1933 2012-03-15 21:39:16 jjjrmy-m has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1934 2012-03-15 21:40:02 <wumpus> yes but don't forget most people are still running old OSes
1935 2012-03-15 21:40:38 <luke-jr> wumpus: show/hide toggle makes a lot of sense to me
1936 2012-03-15 21:40:49 <wumpus> luke-jr: that's a different issue
1937 2012-03-15 21:41:35 <wumpus> I agree, though... that's the next thing after minimize to tray works (or goes away)
1938 2012-03-15 21:41:49 winterblack has joined
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1940 2012-03-15 21:44:10 <graingert> and metro metro metro interface
1941 2012-03-15 21:44:52 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1942 2012-03-15 21:46:34 Samuel has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1943 2012-03-15 21:46:39 <wumpus> not really
1944 2012-03-15 21:50:46 bitvampire has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1945 2012-03-15 21:51:08 <gavinandresen> So BIP16 support has been above 60% for the last two days:  https://gist.github.com/2031410
1946 2012-03-15 21:51:22 <gavinandresen> ... but support over the last 1000 blocks is just under 50%.
1947 2012-03-15 21:51:39 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: rewrite Eligius's blocks to support and you've over 50%
1948 2012-03-15 21:51:54 <wumpus> it's crazy that there's so much fluctuation
1949 2012-03-15 21:52:35 <gavinandresen> I believe a couple of pools that were supporting BIP16 switched to old bitcoind's when they forgot to update -paytoscripthashtime
1950 2012-03-15 21:52:51 <gavinandresen> (and wasted time hashing on the invalid chain)
1951 2012-03-15 21:52:56 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: if it stays over 50% for the next week, I'd say just go with Apr 1
1952 2012-03-15 21:53:25 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: I agree-- asking people to slip the date again is painful and error-prone.
1953 2012-03-15 21:53:40 <gavinandresen> (one of the many lessons learned for next time.....)
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1955 2012-03-15 21:54:44 <graingert> luke-jr: nobody will believe the Apr 1st switchover
1956 2012-03-15 21:54:59 <gavinandresen> graingert: ?
1957 2012-03-15 21:55:05 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: because it's on Atheist's Day
1958 2012-03-15 21:55:29 <graingert> gavinandresen: are you away April Fool's day. My heart says nothing luke-jr
1959 2012-03-15 21:55:42 <gavinandresen> Oh, april fools day....
1960 2012-03-15 21:55:45 <graingert> aware*
1961 2012-03-15 21:55:48 hazek has joined
1962 2012-03-15 21:55:58 <luke-jr> I'm moving Apr 1
1963 2012-03-15 21:56:20 <graingert> the fool says in his heart anything other than "boom boom" because otherwise he would die
1964 2012-03-15 21:57:07 <graingert> the fool says in his heart anything other than "boom boom".  Because that fool would then die
1965 2012-03-15 21:57:09 <graingert> curse my grammar
1966 2012-03-15 21:57:34 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: I say we stick with apr 1, we can watch it closely and if it doesnt continue to be >50%, we can stop it sometime next week
1967 2012-03-15 21:57:40 <BlueMatt> but that shouldnt happen
1968 2012-03-15 21:57:45 <BlueMatt> there is no reason to switch again
1969 2012-03-15 21:57:57 <BlueMatt> that will just piss more people off..
1970 2012-03-15 21:57:57 <BlueMatt> .
1971 2012-03-15 21:58:16 bitvampire has joined
1972 2012-03-15 21:58:36 <gavinandresen> Agreed, April 1 it is.
1973 2012-03-15 21:59:29 <graingert> will miners that don't support P2SH fail after this day?
1974 2012-03-15 21:59:48 <[Tycho]> If we craft some special TXes for them
1975 2012-03-15 22:00:12 <[Tycho]> I have one unredeemed P2SH just in case
1976 2012-03-15 22:00:38 <BlueMatt> Im sure someone will craft such a tx
1977 2012-03-15 22:01:05 <graingert> ergo dropping the hash rate ?
1978 2012-03-15 22:02:05 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1979 2012-03-15 22:02:38 <BlueMatt> yea
1980 2012-03-15 22:03:00 <andytoshi> not for long, i expect
1981 2012-03-15 22:03:26 <BlueMatt> hopefully not
1982 2012-03-15 22:03:26 <andytoshi> presumably they had a reason to be mining in the first place, so they'll have a reason to move back in line with the network
1983 2012-03-15 22:03:29 p0s has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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1987 2012-03-15 22:06:03 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: use it to throw off MM
1988 2012-03-15 22:06:33 <[Tycho]> You can do it too.
1989 2012-03-15 22:06:53 <forsetifox> Doing that has something to do with giving up rewards from a block?
1990 2012-03-15 22:07:13 <[Tycho]> No, it's free
1991 2012-03-15 22:07:36 <[Tycho]> Making fun of BIP30 costs 50BTC
1992 2012-03-15 22:07:42 <forsetifox> Ah.. could've sworn I read that you had to give up a block (that you'd get bitcoins from) and change it somehow.
1993 2012-03-15 22:07:47 <[Tycho]> But BIP16 is cheap
1994 2012-03-15 22:07:51 <forsetifox> Gotcha.
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2016 2012-03-15 22:40:47 <user__> I agre that overview tab on client should be an embed webpage with bitcoin infoss like faq... something like the wiki
2017 2012-03-15 22:41:14 roconnor has joined
2018 2012-03-15 22:43:22 <[Tycho]> Eww, html in applications :(
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2038 2012-03-15 23:06:52 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoind-Sanitytest build #194: FAILURE in 1 hr 0 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoind-Sanitytest/194/
2039 2012-03-15 23:07:29 <BlueMatt> wat?
2040 2012-03-15 23:07:46 <BlueMatt> odd, "Blocks did not download fast enough to match the benchmark"
2041 2012-03-15 23:08:26 <BlueMatt> that benchmark should be pretty generous, let me try that again...
2042 2012-03-15 23:08:42 <forsetifox> >.>
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2063 2012-03-15 23:45:27 <luke-jr> wumpus: What was f94177367a5765f89be526837330459cf840747b about?
2064 2012-03-15 23:51:54 splatster is now known as plaster
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