1 2012-03-20 00:00:05 <Matt_von_Mises> It wont show the balance alongside the transactions in the transaction statement
2 2012-03-20 00:00:12 Z0rZ0rZ0r1 has joined
3 2012-03-20 00:01:04 <Matt_von_Mises> My online bank statements show "Paid in", "Paid out", "Balance". That's the sensible way of doing it.
4 2012-03-20 00:01:35 <da2ce7> sipa: :) I worked you how do to the block signing without changing the block format :) http://pastebin.com/NS0dZTvZ
5 2012-03-20 00:01:41 <Eliel> That's actually a very good criticism. Worthy of putting up on the bug tracker.
6 2012-03-20 00:01:56 <da2ce7> *how to do.
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8 2012-03-20 00:02:48 <Matt_von_Mises> Does the bug tracker allow for criticisms?
9 2012-03-20 00:03:03 <luke-jr> da2ce7: ⦠why?
10 2012-03-20 00:03:08 <JFK911> sure, just put severity critical
11 2012-03-20 00:03:13 <JFK911> because it's criticism
12 2012-03-20 00:03:31 <da2ce7> luke-jr: becasue then the miner of a block can prove that they mined it.
13 2012-03-20 00:03:46 <da2ce7> making sites like blockchain.info much more reliable.
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15 2012-03-20 00:03:50 <Eliel> Matt_von_Mises: Actually, I'd suggest putting it up as a feature suggestion :)
16 2012-03-20 00:04:10 <Eliel> Matt_von_Mises: proposal to add the balance column there.
17 2012-03-20 00:04:23 <luke-jr> da2ce7: ⦠that's never been a problem afaik
18 2012-03-20 00:04:44 <da2ce7> only becasue nobody abuses it atm.
19 2012-03-20 00:04:53 <luke-jr> da2ce7: the problem is that miners often don't *want* you to know which blocks they mined
20 2012-03-20 00:05:10 <da2ce7> it would be nice to use cyptographic signtures, insted of IP address, or info in the coinbase.
21 2012-03-20 00:05:34 <da2ce7> luke-jr: no problem, they don't have to sign their block... or they can use a random key every time.
22 2012-03-20 00:05:37 <Matt_von_Mises> Eliel: Okay thanks. I might do that if I get round to it...
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34 2012-03-20 00:12:20 <sipa> da2ce7: why the limitation of the first public key?
35 2012-03-20 00:13:17 <Eliel> sipa: I think that's for pools that want to pay their miners from generation transaction.
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37 2012-03-20 00:13:36 <da2ce7> if you don't limit it to the first public key, then you can have many differnt 'owners' of the same block.
38 2012-03-20 00:14:04 <sipa> da2ce7: the signature will only match one key
39 2012-03-20 00:14:10 <dub> UI needs a search address book function
40 2012-03-20 00:14:39 <sipa> dub: that sounds useful; care to report it as an issue?
41 2012-03-20 00:14:43 BlueMatt has joined
42 2012-03-20 00:15:12 <da2ce7> sure... but what happens if there are 40 differnet generation payouts, to differnt keys, owned by differnt people. Then each of these keys could 'claim' to own the block.
43 2012-03-20 00:15:42 <sipa> So? Only one will succeed :)
44 2012-03-20 00:15:52 <luke-jr> â¦
45 2012-03-20 00:16:38 <Eliel> sipa: basically, limiting it to a single key allows the one who has control of what goes in there to claim it if they wish. Or at least prevent others from claiming it.
46 2012-03-20 00:17:06 <da2ce7> if you limit it to the first... then the miner, even if it is using generation payments, can do a dummy payment to himself, and include that genertaion payment as the first payment.
47 2012-03-20 00:17:38 <sipa> (the reason why i'm playing advocate of the devil is that there is something ugly about it: it requires the payout to be done to a public key; there is no reason why this will remain the state of the art in the future)
48 2012-03-20 00:18:03 <BlueMatt> " advocate of the devil" <-- heh, europeans...its devil's advocate
49 2012-03-20 00:18:12 <sipa> BlueMatt: thanks :)
50 2012-03-20 00:18:21 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: ironically, the office is in Europeâ¦
51 2012-03-20 00:18:25 Diablo-D3 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
52 2012-03-20 00:18:27 <sipa> ?
53 2012-03-20 00:18:38 <luke-jr> Devil's Advocate is an official position in the Catholic Church
54 2012-03-20 00:18:56 Diablo-D3 has joined
55 2012-03-20 00:18:59 <sipa> oh;i didn't mean to refer to that
56 2012-03-20 00:19:02 <luke-jr> :P
57 2012-03-20 00:19:22 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: wait, what??? what do they do?
58 2012-03-20 00:19:25 <luke-jr> their job is to argue against the cause to canonize someone a Saint; so kindof the same thing
59 2012-03-20 00:19:34 <BlueMatt> ah, heh funny
60 2012-03-20 00:19:53 <BlueMatt> that would kinda suck to have the job titled "devil's advocate" within the church...
61 2012-03-20 00:19:53 <luke-jr> for example, one dug up the adultery of Christopher Colombus when he was being considered
62 2012-03-20 00:20:39 <sipa> BlueMatt: as long as it is not "devil himself" :)
63 2012-03-20 00:20:43 <luke-jr> :p
64 2012-03-20 00:20:44 <da2ce7> sipa: Having the payment to a bitcoin address, or a explicitly defined public key is just an easy way to do it at first... However can you send a generation payment to a p2sh address anyway?
65 2012-03-20 00:20:56 <sipa> sure
66 2012-03-20 00:21:00 <luke-jr> da2ce7: ofc
67 2012-03-20 00:21:16 <luke-jr> but there's no reason you can't put a 0-output at the top
68 2012-03-20 00:21:17 <sipa> there is nothing special about coinbase outputs (except their maturity time)
69 2012-03-20 00:22:03 <da2ce7> can you make a payment of 0btc to a bitcoin address?
70 2012-03-20 00:22:11 <luke-jr> if I considered it useful, I'd propose allowing standard outputs and also OP_RETURN <pubkeyhash>
71 2012-03-20 00:22:15 <luke-jr> da2ce7: yes
72 2012-03-20 00:22:16 <da2ce7> or would that be counted as an invalid block?
73 2012-03-20 00:22:24 <luke-jr> da2ce7: I've done it from p2pool's 0-amount outputs
74 2012-03-20 00:23:22 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: db1a560 (origin-pull/862/head, matt/warnings) Fix compilation warning. <-- doesn't change warnings from mingw for me, with -Wallâ¦
75 2012-03-20 00:23:47 <luke-jr> (actually, in 0.5.x it makes more warnings since headers.h already defines _WIN32_WINNT
76 2012-03-20 00:24:07 <BlueMatt> well then dont backport it...
77 2012-03-20 00:24:32 <BlueMatt> it keeps mingw from redefining _WIN32_WINNT
78 2012-03-20 00:24:33 <luke-jr> sipa: what do you think of formally defining if(scriptPubKey[0] == OP_RETURN) spent = true; ?
79 2012-03-20 00:25:21 <da2ce7> then how about include a coinbase 0btc transaction to a bitcoin address as the first transactoin, that can be defined as the block 'signing key'
80 2012-03-20 00:25:22 <sipa> what for?
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82 2012-03-20 00:26:30 <da2ce7> that key then can be used to send a signed message "I own (block hash)"... If say [Tycho] owns that key, then that is a easy proof that the block was made by deepbit.
83 2012-03-20 00:27:29 <sipa> my "what for" was addressed to luke, actually :)
84 2012-03-20 00:27:42 <luke-jr> sipa: so there's a standard way to mark such transactions as immediatley prunable
85 2012-03-20 00:28:29 <luke-jr> sipa: for now, p2pool is spamming the unspent-outputs index with 0-amount data outputs
86 2012-03-20 00:28:55 <luke-jr> (obviously better would be not having the extra junk, but at least an OP_RETURN at [0] guarantees they can't be spent and don't need to be indexed)
87 2012-03-20 00:29:13 <sipa> Hmm; combined with amount==0 perhaps
88 2012-03-20 00:29:52 <sipa> it does require another backward-compatible update to be rolled out, and it's for something that has no practical advantage whatsoever right now
89 2012-03-20 00:29:55 <luke-jr> well, no matter the amount, it's unspendable
90 2012-03-20 00:30:03 <sipa> so it may be hard to sell it
91 2012-03-20 00:30:08 <luke-jr> sipa: I don't see why it'd need any update
92 2012-03-20 00:30:16 <luke-jr> oh, with BIP30 it might I guess :/
93 2012-03-20 00:31:14 <luke-jr> nuts, should have thought of this when BIP30 was being designed
94 2012-03-20 00:31:15 <luke-jr> oh well
95 2012-03-20 00:31:25 <sipa> i don't think it's a problem
96 2012-03-20 00:31:42 <sipa> no valid transaction can spend it
97 2012-03-20 00:32:02 <luke-jr> but it has to remain in the index forever, to invalidate blocks that try to include a dupe
98 2012-03-20 00:32:21 <sipa> ah, indeed
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121 2012-03-20 00:59:01 <bitcoinbuyer_> does anyone know why the bitdoind move call does not work??
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123 2012-03-20 01:00:11 <luke-jr> bitcoinbuyer_: works for me
124 2012-03-20 01:00:36 <bitcoinbuyer_> i've tried it on the command line and jsonrpc and neither calls move coins
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126 2012-03-20 01:00:51 <bitcoinbuyer_> Anythoughts on troubleshooting?
127 2012-03-20 01:01:32 <sipa> bitcoinbuyer_: you know what move is supposed to do?
128 2012-03-20 01:01:45 <bitcoinbuyer_> move from one user to another??
129 2012-03-20 01:01:54 <bitcoinbuyer_> in the same wallet
130 2012-03-20 01:01:58 <sipa> well, move from one accounts to another account
131 2012-03-20 01:02:06 <sipa> but it does not perform a transaction
132 2012-03-20 01:02:11 <bitcoinbuyer_> correct.
133 2012-03-20 01:02:33 <sipa> but getaccountbalance doesn't reflect the move you're doing?
134 2012-03-20 01:02:44 <bitcoinbuyer_> nope
135 2012-03-20 01:03:04 <bitcoinbuyer_> I get a TRUE response when I make the call from a command line
136 2012-03-20 01:03:09 <bitcoinbuyer_> but the coins dont' move
137 2012-03-20 01:03:21 da2ce7 has joined
138 2012-03-20 01:03:26 <luke-jr> listaccounts
139 2012-03-20 01:03:36 <sipa> ok, tell me exactly which calls you're doing, and i can try to reproduce?
140 2012-03-20 01:04:05 <bitcoinbuyer_> >./bitcoind user1, user2, 1, 1
141 2012-03-20 01:04:11 <bitcoinbuyer_> this returns TRUE
142 2012-03-20 01:04:19 <gmaxwell> 0_o
143 2012-03-20 01:04:25 <sipa> no comma's
144 2012-03-20 01:04:39 <gmaxwell> presumably there is a "move" in there somewhere?
145 2012-03-20 01:04:40 <bitcoinbuyer_> sorry that was the json rpc call with MOVE
146 2012-03-20 01:04:54 <bitcoinbuyer_> no comma from the command line
147 2012-03-20 01:04:56 <gmaxwell> and how are you determining that they aren't moving? what call are you doing?
148 2012-03-20 01:05:02 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
149 2012-03-20 01:05:07 <sipa> i asked for the exact call you're doing :)
150 2012-03-20 01:05:46 <bitcoinbuyer_> sorry AGAIN ./bitcoind move user1 user2 1 1
151 2012-03-20 01:05:58 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
152 2012-03-20 01:06:18 <bitcoinbuyer_> i get 'true' as a response. is that correct
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154 2012-03-20 01:06:22 <gmaxwell> bitcoinbuyer_: and you determine that it hasn't moved by?
155 2012-03-20 01:06:27 <sipa> looks right so far
156 2012-03-20 01:06:50 <bitcoinbuyer_> getaccountbalance
157 2012-03-20 01:06:53 <loktite> where the bitcoins at bro
158 2012-03-20 01:06:54 <gmaxwell> (what the second "1" for?)
159 2012-03-20 01:07:00 da2ce7 is now known as 2!~da2ce7@gateway/tor-sasl/da2ce7|da2ce7
160 2012-03-20 01:07:01 <bitcoinbuyer_> 1 confirmation
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162 2012-03-20 01:07:42 <sipa> since move allows creating negative balances, that fourth argument is meaningless
163 2012-03-20 01:08:22 <gmaxwell> yea, I'm confused by what that could possibly mean.
164 2012-03-20 01:08:36 <gmaxwell> I see the minconf in the help but it makes no sense to me.
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166 2012-03-20 01:10:52 <sipa> gmaxwell: move used to check that enough credit was left in the sending account
167 2012-03-20 01:11:35 <sipa> gmaxwell: and for that calculation, minconf selected transactions with how many confirmations to take into account
168 2012-03-20 01:12:00 <gmaxwell> ah
169 2012-03-20 01:12:42 <gmaxwell> that.. is still not quite sensible.
170 2012-03-20 01:12:47 <bitcoinbuyer_> so I checked balances on the command line and I now see movement. must be a error my use of the json rpc
171 2012-03-20 01:12:51 finway has joined
172 2012-03-20 01:13:04 * luke-jr ponders hacking Eligius to reject txns with unbalanced ifs
173 2012-03-20 01:13:05 <finway> Is there something wrong with sourceforge ?
174 2012-03-20 01:13:06 <bitcoinbuyer_> now I see negative balances. How is that bossible
175 2012-03-20 01:13:07 andytoshi has joined
176 2012-03-20 01:13:23 <sipa> luke-jr: where? inside blocks?
177 2012-03-20 01:13:29 <sipa> or just in accepttomemorypool?
178 2012-03-20 01:13:31 <luke-jr> sipa: into blocks
179 2012-03-20 01:13:33 <luke-jr> right
180 2012-03-20 01:13:45 <finway> Can't access http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/
181 2012-03-20 01:13:46 <luke-jr> bitcoinbuyer_: b = 0; a += 5; b -= 5;
182 2012-03-20 01:13:55 <luke-jr> finway: we just blocked you
183 2012-03-20 01:13:59 <gmaxwell> say a txn has a balance of 10. A txn comes in with 5 btc. you minconf=2 move 6. Then.. you minconf=2 move 6 again. Does it fail?
184 2012-03-20 01:14:17 <finway> luke-jr : but http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.5.3/bitcoin-0.5.3.1-win32-setup.exe/download is fine
185 2012-03-20 01:14:32 <luke-jr> â¦
186 2012-03-20 01:14:40 <sipa> gmaxwell: since 0.3.x something accounts can freely go negative, so minconf has no meaning anymore
187 2012-03-20 01:14:46 <luke-jr> finway: that was sarcasm
188 2012-03-20 01:15:00 <gmaxwell> sipa: ::nods:: I just don't see how it could ever have made sense.
189 2012-03-20 01:15:17 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: it's nice to record debts.
190 2012-03-20 01:15:29 <sipa> gmaxwell: spent coins are never counted
191 2012-03-20 01:15:29 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: 0_o
192 2012-03-20 01:15:32 <luke-jr> lol
193 2012-03-20 01:15:39 <finway> luke-jr: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.5.3/ says: We are unable to display the page you requested.
194 2012-03-20 01:15:42 <finway> Weird
195 2012-03-20 01:15:44 <sipa> gmaxwell: the question is just how many confirmation unspent ones must have before they are counted
196 2012-03-20 01:15:51 <gmaxwell> sipa: there is not spent coin. Two moves.
197 2012-03-20 01:16:06 <finway> Is sourceforge compromised ?
198 2012-03-20 01:16:16 <sipa> gmaxwell: ah, moves have no confirmations, so they are counted always
199 2012-03-20 01:16:25 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: I'm not saying that debts don't make sense, I'm saying minconf + move makes no sense.
200 2012-03-20 01:16:37 <sipa> gmaxwell: so the second move would fail, imho
201 2012-03-20 01:16:48 <finway> http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.5.3/ This link was from bitcointalk.org "Update Now"
202 2012-03-20 01:16:50 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: ok
203 2012-03-20 01:18:55 <BlueMatt> we should move to gitian-downloader ;)
204 2012-03-20 01:19:17 <sipa> gmaxwell: just confirmations and moves do make sense imho; what doesn't make sense in the picture is the fact that transaction can be reverted
205 2012-03-20 01:19:33 <sipa> gmaxwell: so there cannot be a guarantee they never go negative
206 2012-03-20 01:19:35 <bitcoinbuyer_> what is the difference in getbalance and "amount" returned by listreceivedbyaddress they don't match now
207 2012-03-20 01:19:52 <finway> I got my 0.5.3.1 stuck again...
208 2012-03-20 01:19:57 <finway> windows 7
209 2012-03-20 01:20:06 <finway> darn
210 2012-03-20 01:20:08 <sipa> bitcoinbuyer_: the sum of all listreceivedbyaddress's doesn't match getbalance?
211 2012-03-20 01:20:21 <BlueMatt> finway: reproduceable?
212 2012-03-20 01:20:27 <bitcoinbuyer_> not for the individual accounts
213 2012-03-20 01:20:28 <finway> Yes
214 2012-03-20 01:20:32 <BlueMatt> how>
215 2012-03-20 01:20:33 <BlueMatt> ?
216 2012-03-20 01:20:37 <sipa> bitcoinbuyer_: of course not, you moved coins between them
217 2012-03-20 01:20:53 <finway> BlueMatt: No, i don't how, but it keep getting stuck on this computer...
218 2012-03-20 01:20:58 SomeoneWeirdzzz is now known as SomeoneWeird
219 2012-03-20 01:21:18 <finway> maybe some logs would help ?
220 2012-03-20 01:21:24 <BlueMatt> finway: on a particular chain, or even after clearing .bitcoin?
221 2012-03-20 01:21:29 <BlueMatt> or I guess AppData/Bitcoin
222 2012-03-20 01:21:39 <gmaxwell> sipa: I guess what I'm objecting to is that because the coins don't move just the balance, what happens when you do a bunch of small moves that would add up to the amount you have confirmed at a particular level.. how would it know to no longer allow you to move more?
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224 2012-03-20 01:22:27 <finway> BlueMatt: Where's the newest debug info , top or bottom ?
225 2012-03-20 01:22:31 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: you can move arbitrary values
226 2012-03-20 01:22:38 <luke-jr> finway: bottom
227 2012-03-20 01:22:38 <BlueMatt> bottom
228 2012-03-20 01:22:43 <bitcoinbuyer_> is it possible to delete unused addressed
229 2012-03-20 01:22:49 <sipa> bitcoinbuyer_: no
230 2012-03-20 01:23:22 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: yes, I know this. I'm going to give up nowâ the behavior is gone (though we should remove the minconf stuff from the help then..) I'm obviously failing to communicate tonight. :)
231 2012-03-20 01:23:39 <sipa> gmaxwell: i don't see your problem :)
232 2012-03-20 01:23:48 Ahimoth has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
233 2012-03-20 01:23:57 <sipa> maybe my brain is failing today
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237 2012-03-20 01:24:30 <bitcoinbuyer_> what am i moving with the move call??
238 2012-03-20 01:24:35 <sipa> bitcoinbuyer_: bits
239 2012-03-20 01:24:37 <luke-jr> bitcoinbuyer_: nothing.
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241 2012-03-20 01:24:43 <gmaxwell> I you have 1 old btc with many confirms. I add 100 btc in one confirm transactions. I move 1 btc with minconf=10 out. Passes. Then I do it again. Does it pass? If not, how did it know? If so, I just violated the requirement.
242 2012-03-20 01:24:46 <sipa> bitcoinbuyer_: you subtract something from one account and add it to another
243 2012-03-20 01:24:50 <sipa> bitcoinbuyer_: that is everything
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246 2012-03-20 01:25:02 <gmaxwell> bitcoinbuyer_: accounts are just bookkeeping.
247 2012-03-20 01:25:39 <bitcoinbuyer_> so currently in my wallet I have 2 btc
248 2012-03-20 01:25:56 <sipa> yes, and those 2 BTC are not touched in any way by the move command
249 2012-03-20 01:26:07 <bitcoinbuyer_> so what am i moving again??
250 2012-03-20 01:26:12 <sipa> numbers
251 2012-03-20 01:26:25 <sipa> as gmaxwell says: accounts are just bookkeeping
252 2012-03-20 01:26:37 <sipa> if you don't need bookkeeping, don't use the feature; it will confuse you
253 2012-03-20 01:26:55 <bitcoinbuyer_> yes very confusing
254 2012-03-20 01:27:07 <bitcoinbuyer_> is this written about anywhere.
255 2012-03-20 01:27:10 <gmaxwell> bitcoinbuyer_: it's like a checkbook where you are doing itemized account.. next to your balances you have names ... "food" "gas" so you can track your spending. You realize you screwed up so you move some funds from the food to gas column. No money actually moved, only your accounting.
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257 2012-03-20 01:27:24 <gmaxwell> s/itemized account/itemized accounting/
258 2012-03-20 01:27:26 <sipa> bitcoinbuyer_: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Accounts_explained
259 2012-03-20 01:27:35 <bitcoinbuyer_> excellent. thx
260 2012-03-20 01:27:39 <finway> luke-jr, BlueMatt, My mistake, it's 0.6 got stuck, not 0.5.3.1
261 2012-03-20 01:27:47 <sipa> finway: 0.6.0rc4?
262 2012-03-20 01:28:06 <finway> sipa: not rc4, rc1
263 2012-03-20 01:28:13 <finway> I'll try rc4
264 2012-03-20 01:28:13 <luke-jr> â¦
265 2012-03-20 01:28:17 <BlueMatt> still shouldnt get stuck...
266 2012-03-20 01:28:30 <BlueMatt> crash maybe, stuck not so much
267 2012-03-20 01:28:36 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I presume if he's trying ot use rc1 now, he probably neglected the mandatory p2sh time changes
268 2012-03-20 01:28:38 <finway> BlueMatt: it's the old problem
269 2012-03-20 01:28:48 <bitcoinbuyer_> so just to wrap up if I want to move my btc to on address to another I have to SEND it not move it. correct.
270 2012-03-20 01:28:51 <BlueMatt> chain stuck, or gui frozen?
271 2012-03-20 01:29:01 <finway> BlueMatt: gui frozen
272 2012-03-20 01:29:03 <sipa> finway: rc1 is known to get stuck
273 2012-03-20 01:29:09 <sipa> oh, gui frozen; that's different
274 2012-03-20 01:29:13 <finway> sipa: yeah, i konw
275 2012-03-20 01:29:21 <luke-jr> bitcoinbuyer_: yes
276 2012-03-20 01:29:26 <BlueMatt> that shouldnt happen, but Ive seen it a few places...
277 2012-03-20 01:29:28 <bitcoinbuyer_> Thanks for the insight!
278 2012-03-20 01:29:58 <luke-jr> weird. a transaction just showed up at my client with 23 confirmations off the bat
279 2012-03-20 01:30:29 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
280 2012-03-20 01:30:34 <gmaxwell> er, unless there was just one helluva reorg that shouldn't be possible.
281 2012-03-20 01:30:43 twmz has quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
282 2012-03-20 01:31:03 <BlueMatt> or if someone is just sending crap for the hell of it
283 2012-03-20 01:31:05 twmz_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
284 2012-03-20 01:31:26 forsetifox has quit (Quit: Leaving)
285 2012-03-20 01:31:29 <gmaxwell> No big reorgs in my logs.
286 2012-03-20 01:31:37 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: crap? Explain.
287 2012-03-20 01:31:51 <finway> BlueMatt, gui frozen on 0.6rc4 too
288 2012-03-20 01:31:54 <BlueMatt> sipa: bitcoin-qt: src/main.cpp:1462: bool CBlock::SetBestChainInner(CTxDB&, CBlockIndex*): Assertion `pindexNew->pprev == pindexBest' failed.
289 2012-03-20 01:32:01 <finway> Maybe it's not solved.
290 2012-03-20 01:32:14 <sipa> BlueMatt: you had that now?
291 2012-03-20 01:32:18 <BlueMatt> sipa: yes
292 2012-03-20 01:32:30 <sipa> great
293 2012-03-20 01:32:35 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: whats wrong with me sending you a tx that is already deep in the chain, or does bitcoin actually check thoroughly if it has a tx yet in txindex?
294 2012-03-20 01:32:37 <gmaxwell> stupendous.
295 2012-03-20 01:32:38 twmz has joined
296 2012-03-20 01:32:41 <BlueMatt> sipa: on a chain forwarded to me from jm9000
297 2012-03-20 01:32:43 <sipa> same problem imsaguy2 had, but he disappeared
298 2012-03-20 01:32:50 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: ... if it was deep in the chain you would _already_ have it.
299 2012-03-20 01:33:00 <sipa> BlueMatt: can you paste some debug.log?
300 2012-03-20 01:33:14 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: I assumed that luke meant that it just showed up in his txn list.
301 2012-03-20 01:33:19 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: does bitcoin bother to check?
302 2012-03-20 01:33:28 <BlueMatt> actually, no a node can send you a tx even if you dont request it
303 2012-03-20 01:33:31 <BlueMatt> ie even if its deep in the chain
304 2012-03-20 01:33:34 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: it won't show up in your txn list again.
305 2012-03-20 01:33:52 <BlueMatt> no, but it will in debug.log, which may be wher eluke saw it
306 2012-03-20 01:34:00 <gmaxwell> Fair enough.
307 2012-03-20 01:34:31 <BlueMatt> sipa: http://pastebin.com/m3RWDqWg
308 2012-03-20 01:34:39 <BlueMatt> sipa: you want the chain?
309 2012-03-20 01:34:49 <luke-jr> no recent reorg
310 2012-03-20 01:35:00 <luke-jr> my debug.log shows receiving the txn at 0-confirms
311 2012-03-20 01:35:05 <luke-jr> I suspect it may be just the GUI
312 2012-03-20 01:35:23 <luke-jr> ad5726f94d595f416c929134262ca8ec9cf7b6ca1a757fa82c060ca44868285c fwiw
313 2012-03-20 01:35:40 <luke-jr> it's also strange in the sense that this is an obsolete bounty address
314 2012-03-20 01:36:15 <finway> Ok, i think i can't get out, i'll paste the debug.log
315 2012-03-20 01:36:46 <BlueMatt> finway: you dont happen to be able to build bitcoin with DEBUG_LOCKORDER, do you?
316 2012-03-20 01:37:13 <finway> BlueMatt: I don't build bitcoin, i download the binaries.
317 2012-03-20 01:37:19 <BlueMatt> :(
318 2012-03-20 01:37:27 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: finway-china opened issue 956 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/956>
319 2012-03-20 01:38:01 <finway> I'll try on WindowsXP later this day.
320 2012-03-20 01:38:47 <finway> 0.5.3.1 are fine both on windozXP & windoz7
321 2012-03-20 01:38:48 upb has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
322 2012-03-20 01:39:01 <BlueMatt> let me get you a debug_lockorder build...one sec
323 2012-03-20 01:39:13 <sipa> BlueMatt: not necessary; found it
324 2012-03-20 01:39:22 <BlueMatt> sipa: nice, good to hear
325 2012-03-20 01:39:35 <sipa> the assertion is just too strong
326 2012-03-20 01:39:45 <BlueMatt> ah, well thats easy then
327 2012-03-20 01:39:52 <sipa> (i.e., it's not always satisfied, but it's also not necessary)
328 2012-03-20 01:40:53 JZavala has joined
329 2012-03-20 01:40:54 <sipa> BlueMatt: can you just remove the asserting, and see if it works?
330 2012-03-20 01:40:56 <sipa> i believe it will
331 2012-03-20 01:41:48 <luke-jr> sigh
332 2012-03-20 01:41:50 <luke-jr> so much for 0.6.0 final
333 2012-03-20 01:42:10 <sipa> luke-jr: that's what we have rc's for, right?
334 2012-03-20 01:42:30 <finway> Great
335 2012-03-20 01:43:04 <luke-jr> sipa: yeah, I guess
336 2012-03-20 01:43:06 <luke-jr> :p
337 2012-03-20 01:43:34 <finway> maybe diff 0.5.3.1 and 0.6.0rc4 gui part ? :P
338 2012-03-20 01:43:35 <BlueMatt> finway: mind trying http://dl.dropbox.com/u/29653426/bitcoin-qt.exe
339 2012-03-20 01:43:44 <BlueMatt> and see if you get LOCKORDER messages in debug.log
340 2012-03-20 01:44:08 <finway> BlueMatt: ok
341 2012-03-20 01:44:25 dwon has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
342 2012-03-20 01:45:09 <finway> I hate the GFW
343 2012-03-20 01:45:18 <sipa> GFW?
344 2012-03-20 01:45:28 <BlueMatt> sipa: seems to work fine...
345 2012-03-20 01:45:34 <finway> GreatFireWall
346 2012-03-20 01:45:49 <BlueMatt> yea, its going up just fine, REORGANIZE seemed to work fine too
347 2012-03-20 01:45:50 <sipa> ah
348 2012-03-20 01:45:59 <BlueMatt> they block dropbox?
349 2012-03-20 01:46:12 <finway> BlueMatt, proxying.
350 2012-03-20 01:46:21 * BlueMatt needs to get a good host...
351 2012-03-20 01:46:25 <finway> BlueMatt, yeah, they blocked.
352 2012-03-20 01:46:35 <sipa> host for?
353 2012-03-20 01:46:43 <BlueMatt> s/host/server somewhere so I can ran vms, etc/
354 2012-03-20 01:47:09 <sipa> ah
355 2012-03-20 01:47:12 <BlueMatt> sipa: tell me you couldnt find a use for a virtual host sitting in a datacenter somewhere
356 2012-03-20 01:47:34 <gmaxwell> sipa: you know, that thing where I say Tiananmen Square Massacre and he gets his TCP connection killed .. or perhaps Falun Gong.
357 2012-03-20 01:47:38 <BlueMatt> s/a use/a hundred uses/
358 2012-03-20 01:48:00 <sipa> gmaxwell: yes, sure
359 2012-03-20 01:48:16 marf_away has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
360 2012-03-20 01:48:23 <sipa> BlueMatt: heh, probably i could yes
361 2012-03-20 01:48:38 <finway> BlueMatt, seems i got the 'ORDER' word.
362 2012-03-20 01:48:54 <gmaxwell> Or perhaps it takes å
å (June 4), 天å®éäºä»¶?
363 2012-03-20 01:49:01 <sipa> finway: can you paste some lines around it?
364 2012-03-20 01:49:01 <BlueMatt> finway: well at least we have an issue, mind pasting the lines around it?
365 2012-03-20 01:49:30 <finway> yes, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/956
366 2012-03-20 01:49:50 twmz_ has joined
367 2012-03-20 01:50:39 <finway> gmaxwell, 4/6 is no longer so sensitive
368 2012-03-20 01:50:52 <finway> gmawell, things are changing.
369 2012-03-20 01:50:59 <sipa> finway: is there another instance?
370 2012-03-20 01:51:03 <sipa> this is a false positive
371 2012-03-20 01:51:14 <BlueMatt> yea, those are all TRY_...
372 2012-03-20 01:51:33 <BlueMatt> (we should really not mark TRY_CRITICAL... in DEBUG_LOCKORDER)
373 2012-03-20 01:51:40 <BlueMatt> finway: did that build freeze as well?
374 2012-03-20 01:52:07 <finway> sipa, BlueMatt, i've paste the newer debug.log, yes, it freeze .
375 2012-03-20 01:52:26 <sipa> BlueMatt: it should add TRY'ed CS'es to its stack, but not check them for conflicts
376 2012-03-20 01:52:40 <BlueMatt> yea
377 2012-03-20 01:52:42 <sipa> if you do a normal critical within a try, it counts
378 2012-03-20 01:53:23 <BlueMatt> yep, well I guess its not a CRITICAL_BLOCK deadlock...
379 2012-03-20 01:54:26 <sipa> my miner+p2pool has now been running for several hours on a valgrinded addrman bitcoind; not a single error (except some spurious bdb ones at startup)
380 2012-03-20 01:54:48 <finway> sipa, p2pool are growing again.
381 2012-03-20 01:55:06 <sipa> well, i only contribue 0.2 GH/s :)
382 2012-03-20 01:55:39 knotwork_ has joined
383 2012-03-20 01:56:43 * BlueMatt -> bbl
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389 2012-03-20 02:08:05 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: dooglus opened issue 957 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/957>
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440 2012-03-20 05:01:22 BlueMatt has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
441 2012-03-20 05:02:03 ThomasV has joined
442 2012-03-20 05:05:08 <copumpkin> if anyone remembers my question about getting notified about address activity: http://blockchain.info/api has it all
443 2012-03-20 05:05:22 <copumpkin> a nice websocket interface to subscribe to specific addresses
444 2012-03-20 05:06:32 BlueMatt has joined
445 2012-03-20 05:08:36 PsiliPharm has joined
446 2012-03-20 05:08:53 <deoxxa> ooh need
447 2012-03-20 05:08:54 <deoxxa> erm
448 2012-03-20 05:08:55 <deoxxa> neat
449 2012-03-20 05:10:41 Cory has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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453 2012-03-20 05:19:30 <tomoj> sweet, if you can rely on them..
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474 2012-03-20 07:15:42 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: xHire opened issue 958 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/958>
475 2012-03-20 07:18:16 gwillen has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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480 2012-03-20 07:33:51 <da2ce7> If you want to Buy or Sell Fish and other Seafood, Join #bitcoin-fishmonger :)
481 2012-03-20 07:35:34 * Graet checks to see if there is a #bitcoin-vegetarian for vegetable trade
482 2012-03-20 07:37:05 Ahimoth has joined
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486 2012-03-20 08:04:50 * Diablo-D3 checks to see if there is a #bitcoin-rape to hand out 40lb boxes of it
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510 2012-03-20 09:06:51 <t7> what makes the difficulty change?
511 2012-03-20 09:09:49 <Diablo-D3> magic.
512 2012-03-20 09:11:29 RazielZ has joined
513 2012-03-20 09:11:30 <t7> ive had 'magic' and 'magnets' ....
514 2012-03-20 09:12:58 <tomoj> see the 5th paragraph at https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block
515 2012-03-20 09:15:09 Raccoon has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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517 2012-03-20 09:19:35 sneak has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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527 2012-03-20 09:37:43 <t7> does a client download the blockchain from the newest to oldest?
528 2012-03-20 09:39:16 <tomoj> no
529 2012-03-20 09:39:20 <t7> is the difficulty calculated from the timestamp of every block before it?
530 2012-03-20 09:39:27 <t7> and the time now
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532 2012-03-20 09:40:44 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
533 2012-03-20 09:41:04 <tomoj> see https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Target too
534 2012-03-20 09:41:12 <tomoj> 3rd paragraph esp.
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542 2012-03-20 10:10:15 <rebroad> hi... I was just looking at LoadBlockIndex, and logging the height as it went through, and noticed that on my bitcoin-qt, there are 6 blocks it encounters twice...
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548 2012-03-20 10:23:03 <etotheipi_> rebroad, those are probably invalid blocks
549 2012-03-20 10:23:45 <etotheipi_> they don't get removed from the blockchain file on your system, even if they are ultimately determined to be invalid
550 2012-03-20 10:25:03 Raccoon has joined
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552 2012-03-20 10:25:09 <rebroad> etotheipi_, ah I see.. thanks... it is an interesting order in which they're all encoutered during LoadBlockIndex... seems random..
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554 2012-03-20 10:28:30 <rebroad> hmmm. I don't like how it takes over 3 minutes to LoadBlockIndex, and yet during that time the only way to kill bitcoin-qt is will a SIGKILL, uncleanly
555 2012-03-20 10:28:40 <rebroad> *with
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572 2012-03-20 11:15:27 <rebroad> I've made some changes to db.cpp and init.cpp that allow the bitcoin-qt to be exited while loading the block index... simple changes really.. what's the best way to offer them as patches...?
573 2012-03-20 11:16:18 <rebroad> (sorry for the noob question... I'm new to github, etc)
574 2012-03-20 11:17:07 <freewil> rebroad, if you have a github account, you can go to the bitcoin project page and fork it
575 2012-03-20 11:17:28 <freewil> then you can make a branch on your fork with your changes
576 2012-03-20 11:17:36 <freewil> and then submit a pull request back to the main project
577 2012-03-20 11:17:48 <rebroad> ah.. ok. thanks, freewil, so every developer has a fork.. ah I see. and then they are incorporated back into a main fork...
578 2012-03-20 11:18:01 <freewil> right
579 2012-03-20 11:18:12 <freewil> http://help.github.com/fork-a-repo/
580 2012-03-20 11:18:21 <rebroad> thanks. I'll give it a go.. and read that link. thanks!
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591 2012-03-20 11:42:56 <graingert> BlueMatt: would it be possible to get this working for bitcoin? https://secure.travis-ci.org/
592 2012-03-20 11:44:01 Raccoon has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
593 2012-03-20 11:44:56 <rebroad> freewil, hmmm. I'm having trouble git cloning.. it says "Permission denied (publickey).
594 2012-03-20 11:44:56 <rebroad> " - any ideas please?
595 2012-03-20 11:45:15 <graingert> you probably have denied permission, due to your publickey
596 2012-03-20 11:45:43 <rebroad> graingert, what do I need to do to get permission please?
597 2012-03-20 11:46:13 <graingert> you probably need to update your keys due to githubs security, issue
598 2012-03-20 11:46:23 <tomoj> maybe this is just google being creepy, but when _I_ google "Permission denied (publickey)", a github help page is the third result
599 2012-03-20 11:46:39 <rebroad> ok.. i would if I knew how to..
600 2012-03-20 11:46:53 <rebroad> ah, will try googling then!
601 2012-03-20 11:46:56 <graingert> tomoj: that's because github is the thing that brings people to use SSH the most now
602 2012-03-20 11:47:07 <tomoj> admittedly it isn't the right help page
603 2012-03-20 11:47:10 <graingert> lawl
604 2012-03-20 11:47:30 <rebroad> anyone know how I can update my keys please?
605 2012-03-20 11:47:48 <freewil> rebroad, https://github.com/settings/ssh
606 2012-03-20 11:47:55 <rebroad> thanks, freewil
607 2012-03-20 11:48:31 <tomoj> the setup guide should explain in more detail http://help.github.com/set-up-git-redirect
608 2012-03-20 11:50:13 <rebroad> fixed. brilliant. thanks!
609 2012-03-20 11:51:17 <rebroad> is there much difference to using rsa or dss?
610 2012-03-20 11:53:56 [Tycho] has joined
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613 2012-03-20 11:59:49 <graingert> !later tell BlueMatt would it be possible to get this working for bitcoin? https://secure.travis-ci.org/
614 2012-03-20 11:59:49 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
615 2012-03-20 12:02:42 ternit has joined
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617 2012-03-20 12:06:12 <max7890__> Hi! Im looking for small scripts/buttons/widgets for BTC purposes i.e. quick checking the balance of an address or donating - anybody knows?
618 2012-03-20 12:07:49 <graingert> try #bitcoin
619 2012-03-20 12:07:55 <graingert> max7890__: ^
620 2012-03-20 12:08:15 <max7890__> ok
621 2012-03-20 12:08:29 max7890__ has left ()
622 2012-03-20 12:08:54 <ternit> Is backing up wallet.dat on usb stick enough to recover the wallet in case it gets lost?
623 2012-03-20 12:09:50 <rebroad> hmmm, I notice that CWalletDB::LoadWallet isn't using key.IsValid anymore before returning DB_CORRUPT....
624 2012-03-20 12:10:40 Turingi has joined
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630 2012-03-20 12:14:56 <[Tycho]> ternit: yes.
631 2012-03-20 12:15:35 <ternit> cheers
632 2012-03-20 12:16:03 <[Tycho]> ternit: usually if your keypool is 100 keys then it will be enough for 100 send operations.
633 2012-03-20 12:18:15 <rebroad> ah... sorry, ignore my last comment.. I missed it had moved...
634 2012-03-20 12:19:14 ThomasV is now known as ThomasV_afk
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654 2012-03-20 12:35:30 <coingenuity> sort of off-topic mildly
655 2012-03-20 12:35:40 <coingenuity> anyone know why the dwolla API throws 500 errors at you?
656 2012-03-20 12:36:00 <coingenuity> im following the docs https://www.dwolla.com/developers/authentication <<here
657 2012-03-20 12:36:02 <coingenuity> to no avail
658 2012-03-20 12:38:50 <Diablo-D3> coingenuity: read the http spec on that one
659 2012-03-20 12:39:02 <Diablo-D3> errors in the 500s are reserved, generally, for backend fuckery
660 2012-03-20 12:39:11 <Diablo-D3> ie, its nothing you can fix, something horrible has happened
661 2012-03-20 12:39:39 <coingenuity> Diablo-D3: yeah, i'm pretty familiar with 500's actually :P
662 2012-03-20 12:39:49 <coingenuity> SOMETIMES a server will 'throw up' at you
663 2012-03-20 12:39:59 <coingenuity> just depending on the http headers you're sending
664 2012-03-20 12:40:06 <coingenuity> i.e. cryptox 'throws up'
665 2012-03-20 12:40:15 <coingenuity> so i hoped maybe it was something i had broken :/
666 2012-03-20 12:40:20 <Diablo-D3> I doubt it
667 2012-03-20 12:40:43 <Diablo-D3> dwolla surprisingly is pretty well done behind the scenes despite the fact they're all valley faggots
668 2012-03-20 12:40:55 <coingenuity> thats what my gut is saying as well, thanks for the opinion :)
669 2012-03-20 12:41:01 <Diablo-D3> (seriously, whoever invented ruby needs to be beaten with a potato in a sock)
670 2012-03-20 12:41:02 <coingenuity> i also do not mind dwolla,
671 2012-03-20 12:41:10 <coingenuity> EXCEPTING the fucking api, pardon my french
672 2012-03-20 12:41:20 <Diablo-D3> heh, API design is a fucking art
673 2012-03-20 12:41:25 <Diablo-D3> 99.9% of public apis are fucking shit
674 2012-03-20 12:41:28 <coingenuity> i've torn my hair out over that stupid API and the bajillion changes they make every day for the last ywo years
675 2012-03-20 12:41:30 <coingenuity> two*
676 2012-03-20 12:41:31 <Diablo-D3> because they basically let some fucking tool do it
677 2012-03-20 12:41:38 <freewil> wait what? valley faggots? ruby?
678 2012-03-20 12:41:39 <Diablo-D3> (literally or figuratively)
679 2012-03-20 12:41:47 <freewil> dwolla is based in des moines, iowa
680 2012-03-20 12:41:51 <freewil> and i think it uses C#
681 2012-03-20 12:42:06 <coingenuity> Diablo-D3: ill have to have you review my api one day
682 2012-03-20 12:42:12 <Diablo-D3> freewil: that doesnt stop them from being valley faggots, however
683 2012-03-20 12:42:18 <Diablo-D3> they're spreading everywhere like a disease
684 2012-03-20 12:42:21 att_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
685 2012-03-20 12:42:52 Raccoon has joined
686 2012-03-20 12:43:02 <Diablo-D3> coingenuity: and yeah, making changes frequently is bad
687 2012-03-20 12:43:14 <coingenuity> drives me batty
688 2012-03-20 12:43:18 <Diablo-D3> not that Im saying changes are bad, but they should be with reason and infrequently
689 2012-03-20 12:43:26 <coingenuity> their api documentation changed as well, for the worse... X_X
690 2012-03-20 12:43:33 <coingenuity> whaevah, /me is done griping
691 2012-03-20 12:43:35 <Diablo-D3> freewil: and no one uses c#
692 2012-03-20 12:43:37 <Diablo-D3> its largely a myth
693 2012-03-20 12:43:47 <freewil> thats what i heard too
694 2012-03-20 12:43:58 <Diablo-D3> infact, I dont think c# actually exists
695 2012-03-20 12:44:23 <Diablo-D3> I think in reality they're seeing swap gas or nazi ufos from the moon
696 2012-03-20 12:44:36 <freewil> Diablo-D3, do you ever sleep
697 2012-03-20 12:44:47 <Diablo-D3> funny you ask that, Im going to bed soon
698 2012-03-20 12:44:51 <freewil> what timezone are you
699 2012-03-20 12:44:54 <freewil> in
700 2012-03-20 12:45:11 <Diablo-D3> Tue Mar 20 08:44:32 EDT 2012
701 2012-03-20 12:45:12 <Diablo-D3> that one
702 2012-03-20 12:45:28 TheSeven has joined
703 2012-03-20 12:45:31 <freewil> lol me too, i was on at like 3 am and you were still on then
704 2012-03-20 12:45:34 <freewil> and you're still on now
705 2012-03-20 12:45:54 <freewil> to be fair my sleeping pattern has been like that too lately
706 2012-03-20 12:48:59 ThomasV_afk is now known as ThomasV
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733 2012-03-20 13:28:35 <t7> how does the qt client know how many block are in the blockchain before they are downloaded?
734 2012-03-20 13:30:19 <gmaxwell> The peers tell it in their version messages and it takes a median.
735 2012-03-20 13:30:45 MartianW has left ("Bye all.")
736 2012-03-20 13:31:40 <Eliel> "hupsista" http://www.mtv3.fi/uutiset/kotimaa.shtml/2012/03/1515299
737 2012-03-20 13:31:51 <Eliel> (sorry, wrong channel, although, the picture tells it all)
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742 2012-03-20 13:36:15 <t7> sexy
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747 2012-03-20 13:39:15 <rebroad> gmaxwell, i guess a load of mischievous nodes/peers could cause that number to be inaccurate...
748 2012-03-20 13:39:53 tucenaber has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
749 2012-03-20 13:39:57 <rebroad> why not just get the number from blockexplorer or some official(ish) website?
750 2012-03-20 13:40:06 <gmaxwell> rebroad: Yes, though it wouldn't cause any particular harm.
751 2012-03-20 13:40:12 pierre` has joined
752 2012-03-20 13:40:19 <rebroad> or a combination of the two..
753 2012-03-20 13:40:24 <rebroad> as a sanity check
754 2012-03-20 13:40:28 <gmaxwell> rebroad: so you want to make bitcoin clients connect to and depend on some centeralized service⦠Do you not see a problem with that?
755 2012-03-20 13:40:33 <rebroad> so it could report if it's wildly different..
756 2012-03-20 13:41:48 Raccoon has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
757 2012-03-20 13:42:17 <rebroad> to be honest, I struggle to understand what centralized means..
758 2012-03-20 13:42:29 <rebroad> is it specific to geographics?
759 2012-03-20 13:42:32 <gmaxwell> ...
760 2012-03-20 13:42:41 <rebroad> i.e. physical location?
761 2012-03-20 13:43:03 <rebroad> or maybe i mean e.g.
762 2012-03-20 13:43:08 <gmaxwell> rebroad: What you're suggesting would make it possible for the operator of the website to make a complete list of all bitcoin users. It would put them in a privleged position of manipulating the behavior of the clients.
763 2012-03-20 13:43:43 <rebroad> gmaxwell, it would? you mean by logging IP addresses?
764 2012-03-20 13:43:50 TD has joined
765 2012-03-20 13:44:14 <gmaxwell> rebroad: Yes.
766 2012-03-20 13:44:15 <rebroad> i think the client should always treat with skepticism any information gained from a centralized source..
767 2012-03-20 13:44:44 <rebroad> (if it ever accesses it, i mean... )
768 2012-03-20 13:45:14 <gmaxwell> No matter how skptical it is, it's better than the information leak. I'd rather just simply take back out the knows-the-height-in-advance feature, we did okay without it before.
769 2012-03-20 13:45:23 <rebroad> plus, it would only be the bitcoin users of that particilar client, so the site that client was downloaded from would already have that info of IP addresses also, wouldn't it?
770 2012-03-20 13:46:02 <rebroad> well... it can eastimate the height based on the 10 mins per block, right?
771 2012-03-20 13:46:16 <rebroad> based on the best block so far and its timestamp
772 2012-03-20 13:46:21 <gmaxwell> rebroad: noâ because no one is forced to download it from any particular site especially since the distribution is cryptographically signed.
773 2012-03-20 13:46:46 <gmaxwell> rebroad: yes, it couldâ or it could just not estimate it at all. Which is what it did before.
774 2012-03-20 13:47:08 <rebroad> what is the advantage in not estimating?
775 2012-03-20 13:47:42 <gmaxwell> rebroad: not being incorrect. This isn't essential functionality.
776 2012-03-20 13:49:35 bitlad has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
777 2012-03-20 13:50:35 <rebroad> i thought an estimate was usually intrinsically not accurate
778 2012-03-20 13:50:56 <rebroad> or do I mean precise
779 2012-03-20 13:51:01 <rebroad> I think I mean precise
780 2012-03-20 13:51:12 bitlad has joined
781 2012-03-20 13:51:34 <rebroad> they still have value otherwise why would estimates have been invented
782 2012-03-20 13:52:27 <rebroad> anyway, probably not worth getting into a philosophical debate about what things in life are essential or not..
783 2012-03-20 13:53:02 tucenaber has joined
784 2012-03-20 13:53:32 <rebroad> for me, bitcoins aren't essential... so therefore nothing to do with it is either..
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806 2012-03-20 14:54:46 <sipa> luke-jr: not a single error yet in addrman
807 2012-03-20 14:59:42 <sipa> running for 21 hours now
808 2012-03-20 15:02:09 bitlad is now known as bitvampire
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811 2012-03-20 15:09:04 <michaelmclees> http://blockexplorer.com/address/14yNrNcWAoyX4k9vdwYL2A6U424bK6THUN
812 2012-03-20 15:09:15 <michaelmclees> hey guys, i was wondering if someone could look at this for me
813 2012-03-20 15:09:52 <michaelmclees> this is an address for my bitcoin wallet on my android phone
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817 2012-03-20 15:10:14 <michaelmclees> the first transaction is me funding it from my desktop client, looks normal
818 2012-03-20 15:10:37 <michaelmclees> the following day, i spent 3.5 on something and sent it, bringing the balance to 1.233
819 2012-03-20 15:10:57 <michaelmclees> that transaction though, seems to be doing something strange
820 2012-03-20 15:11:20 ThomasV is now known as ThomasV_afk
821 2012-03-20 15:11:21 <sipa> you did a send-to-self?
822 2012-03-20 15:11:40 <michaelmclees> not that i was aware of
823 2012-03-20 15:11:47 <sipa> and blockexplorer first shows the receive and then the send
824 2012-03-20 15:11:54 <michaelmclees> correct
825 2012-03-20 15:11:56 <sipa> while they're actually simultaneous
826 2012-03-20 15:12:44 <michaelmclees> is this not strange though, because my balance reads 5.96 and this address has never had that much in it
827 2012-03-20 15:13:18 <michaelmclees> i guess the question is, is this common?
828 2012-03-20 15:13:31 <michaelmclees> or is it just how bitcoin wallet on android works
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832 2012-03-20 15:16:44 <Graet> michaelmclees, http://blockchain.info/address/14yNrNcWAoyX4k9vdwYL2A6U424bK6THUN looks better?
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835 2012-03-20 15:17:20 <michaelmclees> ahh, yes, that appears much better
836 2012-03-20 15:17:21 <michaelmclees> thanks
837 2012-03-20 15:17:59 <michaelmclees> also, quick question, i sent the last 1.233 to another address i have with no transaction fee just to see how long it would take to get confirmed
838 2012-03-20 15:18:14 <michaelmclees> its been a day, how long do people usually wait for that kind of thing?
839 2012-03-20 15:18:30 <[Tycho]> 10+ mins
840 2012-03-20 15:18:47 <[Tycho]> Depends on the age and size of your coin
841 2012-03-20 15:19:28 <michaelmclees> hmm, well it has certainly been longer than that, guess ill just keep waiting
842 2012-03-20 15:21:12 <rebroad> Tycho, how does age of the coin affect how long it takes please?
843 2012-03-20 15:21:52 <sipa> rebroad: it can
844 2012-03-20 15:22:03 <sipa> age of input coins determines the priority
845 2012-03-20 15:22:26 <freewil> older = higher priority?
846 2012-03-20 15:22:30 <sipa> yes
847 2012-03-20 15:22:37 <[Tycho]> michaelmclees: can you show us your TX ?
848 2012-03-20 15:22:43 <rebroad> is the age of a coin based on how since it last was moved?
849 2012-03-20 15:22:52 <sipa> michaelmclees: blockchain.info does not know about your final transaction
850 2012-03-20 15:22:52 <michaelmclees> it doesn't show in the block explorer
851 2012-03-20 15:23:07 <sipa> blockexplorer only shows confirmed transactions
852 2012-03-20 15:23:23 <michaelmclees> the block explorers won't know about it until a miner confirms it, no?
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854 2012-03-20 15:23:45 <sipa> no, blockexplorer just doesn't show the memory pool
855 2012-03-20 15:23:49 <sipa> blockchain.info does
856 2012-03-20 15:24:17 <michaelmclees> so was the last transaction never really sent?
857 2012-03-20 15:24:43 <sipa> it certainly wasn't relayed
858 2012-03-20 15:24:46 djoot has quit (Quit: leaving)
859 2012-03-20 15:24:47 <sipa> what software created it?
860 2012-03-20 15:24:57 <rebroad> what is the "memory pool"? something different to the block chain?
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864 2012-03-20 15:25:17 <sipa> the memory pool is the list of transaction a node considers valid, but have not yet been mined
865 2012-03-20 15:25:19 <michaelmclees> android bitcoin wallet sent to bitcoin spinner, another android wallet
866 2012-03-20 15:25:26 <sipa> miners use this pool to create new blocks
867 2012-03-20 15:26:14 <rebroad> ah, thanks, sipa
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869 2012-03-20 15:28:17 <michaelmclees> http://blockchain.info/address/147TSsuai8N2L74MvapobH7spo7vs1xamA this is the bitcoin spinner address that was supposed to receive the coins
870 2012-03-20 15:29:07 <rebroad> just was looking at http://blockchain.info/ ... interesting... some miners are mining blocks with just 1 tx, whereas others have 30 or more... is Deepbit and Eligius, for example, chosing to mine only 1 tx blocks these days?
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872 2012-03-20 15:29:47 <michaelmclees> i think there is some talk on the forum of a large unknown miner who is mining empty blocks
873 2012-03-20 15:29:53 <rebroad> and we seem to have had almost twice as many blocks created in the last hour as are supposed to be created...
874 2012-03-20 15:29:58 <michaelmclees> no one can quite figure out why
875 2012-03-20 15:30:05 <sipa> rebroad: that's far from uncommon
876 2012-03-20 15:30:48 <rebroad> from the looks of it, Deepbit and Eligius are chosing to not include many txs in the blocks..... is this giving them any advantage?
877 2012-03-20 15:30:57 <sipa> no
878 2012-03-20 15:31:08 <sipa> also, why do you think that?
879 2012-03-20 15:31:11 <[Tycho]> Actually we are the opposite
880 2012-03-20 15:31:19 <sipa> "Relayed by" is not "Created by"
881 2012-03-20 15:31:25 <[Tycho]> Eligius doesn't include any free TXes at all.
882 2012-03-20 15:31:25 <rebroad> because they have only 1 tx whereas the surrounding blocks have 30 or more
883 2012-03-20 15:31:51 <[Tycho]> Deepbit mines more free TXes than anyone else
884 2012-03-20 15:32:10 <jrmithdobbs> and also produces 25% of the spam in the blockchain to make up for it
885 2012-03-20 15:32:11 <[Tycho]> (unless there is no time to process TXes, that happens sometimes)
886 2012-03-20 15:32:14 <jrmithdobbs> ;p
887 2012-03-20 15:32:28 <gavinandresen> You still consider any fee under 0.01 "Free", right Tycho?
888 2012-03-20 15:32:33 <[Tycho]> Yes.
889 2012-03-20 15:32:39 <michaelmclees> so is my free transaction lost to the ether?
890 2012-03-20 15:32:50 <[Tycho]> A couple of days ago I posted my fee policy
891 2012-03-20 15:33:05 <jrmithdobbs> michaelmclees: it'll get picked up eventually
892 2012-03-20 15:33:05 <sipa> michaelmclees: it would seem so; i don't know how your android application works, but it should retransmit the transaction occassionality
893 2012-03-20 15:33:08 <[Tycho]> gavinandresen: https://deepbit.net/help/6#6
894 2012-03-20 15:33:12 <rebroad> Tycho = deepbit?
895 2012-03-20 15:33:15 <sipa> rebroad: yes
896 2012-03-20 15:33:15 <gavinandresen> [Tycho]: great, thanks!
897 2012-03-20 15:33:18 <jrmithdobbs> rebroad: yes
898 2012-03-20 15:33:18 <[Tycho]> gavinandresen: are you Ok with it ?
899 2012-03-20 15:33:33 <michaelmclees> haha, one guy says yes, another says no
900 2012-03-20 15:33:47 <rebroad> so, if I join a mining pool, am I better off mining with a pool who mines free txs or one that mines only txs with fees?
901 2012-03-20 15:33:58 <jrmithdobbs> you're better off using p2pool
902 2012-03-20 15:34:08 <gavinandresen> [Tycho]: yes, absolutely OK with it.
903 2012-03-20 15:34:13 <jrmithdobbs> pools break the bitcoin threat model
904 2012-03-20 15:34:22 <jrmithdobbs> but w/e, not gonna start that argument
905 2012-03-20 15:35:04 <[Tycho]> gavinandresen: 0.0005 may be good against flood (not sure about that), but it's really like "0" to me in terms of priority.
906 2012-03-20 15:35:11 <rebroad> w/e?
907 2012-03-20 15:35:17 <jrmithdobbs> whatever
908 2012-03-20 15:35:33 <gavinandresen> [Tycho]: 0.0005 was set when bitcoins were more than $20 each and it looked like they might go to $100 or more
909 2012-03-20 15:35:43 tomoj has joined
910 2012-03-20 15:36:05 <sipa> gavinandresen: 22h already on miner+p2pool on valgrind addrman bitcoind; no errors yet
911 2012-03-20 15:36:08 <gavinandresen> ... which shows the problem with hard-coding fees into the client....
912 2012-03-20 15:36:12 <tomoj> how is block 172044's timestamp smaller than block 172045's?
913 2012-03-20 15:36:19 <sipa> tomoj: because it is?
914 2012-03-20 15:36:21 <tomoj> s/smaller/bigger/
915 2012-03-20 15:36:30 <rebroad> it would be good if there was a way for wallets to ascertain the fee system and report it to the user rather than people have to search about who the miners are, locate their website, and then read about it manually...
916 2012-03-20 15:36:33 <gavinandresen> sipa: no errors for me with AddrMan either, running for almost 24 hours
917 2012-03-20 15:36:34 <sipa> tomoj: (it's allowed, within certain bounds)
918 2012-03-20 15:36:39 <[Tycho]> I remember how fee amount skyrocketed when the first client with "forced" fees was released :)
919 2012-03-20 15:36:50 <gavinandresen> sipa: I think AddrMan should go into 0.6rc4
920 2012-03-20 15:36:56 <sipa> rc5 you mean
921 2012-03-20 15:37:07 <gavinandresen> Right! 5
922 2012-03-20 15:37:22 <[Tycho]> What AddrMan ?
923 2012-03-20 15:37:24 <sipa> gavinandresen: i also identified imsaguy's bug: it seems the assertion is too strong
924 2012-03-20 15:37:35 <luke-jr> I think AddrMan this late is asking for new crashes. And I'm scared of crashes a bit more after that last one. :|
925 2012-03-20 15:37:38 <sipa> [Tycho]: my rewrite of bitcoin's ip address management
926 2012-03-20 15:37:39 <rebroad> what version of bitcoin-qt is it I have when I use the git version please?
927 2012-03-20 15:37:44 <tomoj> hmm. block 172045 doesn't depend on block 172044?
928 2012-03-20 15:37:48 <imsaguy2> yay
929 2012-03-20 15:37:50 <luke-jr> otoh, if AddrMan solves a DoS concern, maybe it's worth it
930 2012-03-20 15:37:52 <[Tycho]> Also I was wrong about making fees affect TX priority.
931 2012-03-20 15:37:58 <tomoj> or people's clocks are just way out of sync..?
932 2012-03-20 15:38:00 <imsaguy2> so it wasn't a problem with my chain?
933 2012-03-20 15:38:09 <rebroad> what do you mean Tycho?
934 2012-03-20 15:38:17 <sipa> imsaguy2: well, there certainly is a problem with the chain you sent me
935 2012-03-20 15:38:26 <sipa> imsaguy2: what OS are you using?
936 2012-03-20 15:38:43 <imsaguy2> Longhorn x64
937 2012-03-20 15:38:52 <rebroad> huh.. Longhorn?!
938 2012-03-20 15:38:52 <sipa> you use precompiled binaries?
939 2012-03-20 15:38:57 <imsaguy2> yes
940 2012-03-20 15:39:03 <imsaguy2> rebroad: 2k8
941 2012-03-20 15:39:16 <sipa> imsaguy2: i'll build you one that should fix the problem
942 2012-03-20 15:39:20 <imsaguy2> kk
943 2012-03-20 15:39:22 <[Tycho]> rebroad: I was wondering why fee amount is not used in priority calculation.
944 2012-03-20 15:39:27 <rebroad> never heard of 2k8...
945 2012-03-20 15:39:32 <sipa> rebroad: 2008
946 2012-03-20 15:39:39 <imsaguy2> rebroad: Windows Server 2008
947 2012-03-20 15:39:42 <rebroad> nor 2008
948 2012-03-20 15:39:44 <rebroad> oh..
949 2012-03-20 15:41:25 <rebroad> I was wondering if someone could help.. I've created a fork of bitcoin and made some changes (to allow it to be killed during loading of block index)... I'm new to git though, so not quite sure how to do about submiting it back, etc.. is there a good web page detailing how to do this please?
950 2012-03-20 15:42:03 <gavinandresen> rebroad: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4571.0
951 2012-03-20 15:42:10 <rebroad> gavinandresen, thank you
952 2012-03-20 15:44:10 <rebroad> gavinandresen, in your post you have it as bitcoin-git.git, whereas I think mine is bitcoin.git, how did you add the -git to it please? I'm pretty sure when I clicked "fork" it stayed named as bitcoin.git
953 2012-03-20 15:44:57 <luke-jr> rebroad: the name isn't important
954 2012-03-20 15:50:52 <gavinandresen> I'd like to get all the High Priority issues resolved in the next day or two and into a rc5
955 2012-03-20 15:50:55 tobtc has joined
956 2012-03-20 15:51:09 tobtc has quit (Client Quit)
957 2012-03-20 15:51:31 <gavinandresen> sipa: with all the issues we've had with wallet.dat compatibility, I'm thinking that auto-upgrading wallets is a bad idea
958 2012-03-20 15:52:18 michaelmclees has quit (Quit: Page closed)
959 2012-03-20 15:52:33 Joric_ has joined
960 2012-03-20 15:52:33 Joric_ has quit (Changing host)
961 2012-03-20 15:52:33 Joric_ has joined
962 2012-03-20 15:52:56 <sipa> gavinandresen: you mean something like "Hey, it seems you wallet is still in the 0.3.24 format, would you like to upgrade it? You will not be able to open it using version below 0.6.0? [ Yes, Upgrade ] [ No, Quit ]"
963 2012-03-20 15:53:13 <imsaguy2> +1
964 2012-03-20 15:53:16 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
965 2012-03-20 15:53:48 <rebroad> ok... I've managed to push a branch to github... (https://github.com/rebroad/bitcoin/compare/LoadBlockIndexKillable) - i'm guessing it's probably not ok to quit as quickly as it does, but it's surely better than the alternative, which was kill -9ing it...
966 2012-03-20 15:54:00 <gavinandresen> sipa: Yes. Or, for 0.6, a command-line -upgradewallet that, first thing, rewrites a wallet to use compressed keys, non-padded keys
967 2012-03-20 15:54:41 <gavinandresen> sipa: Otherwise, have CWallet know what version it is and let the user continue using non-compressed, padded forever (until they decide to upgrade)
968 2012-03-20 15:54:58 <gavinandresen> New wallets would be latest version, of course
969 2012-03-20 15:56:03 <rebroad> a small change for my first dabble..... I would welcome any feedback.. would it be ok to do a pull request? (I think that's what it's called) for such a small change?
970 2012-03-20 15:57:35 <gavinandresen> rebroad: see doc/coding.txt, in particular "4 space indenting, no tabs"
971 2012-03-20 15:58:03 <sipa> gavinandresen: compressed keys does not need rewriting, but a boolean to enable them or not is not a problem
972 2012-03-20 15:58:09 <sipa> (it's only for new keys anyway)
973 2012-03-20 15:58:26 cande has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
974 2012-03-20 15:58:52 <gavinandresen> writing a compressed key to wallet.dat means bumping it's version-required number. That's what I want to avoid, unless the user asks for it
975 2012-03-20 15:59:52 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
976 2012-03-20 16:01:12 <sipa> gavinandresen: you want that -upgradewallet mechanism still for 0.6.0 (for compressed keys it's trivial, for padded keys a bit less)
977 2012-03-20 16:01:51 <gavinandresen> sipa: I think unpadded keys can wait
978 2012-03-20 16:01:54 <sipa> ok
979 2012-03-20 16:02:52 <gavinandresen> We should have a wallet versioning policy....
980 2012-03-20 16:02:57 <sipa> i think in that case a GUI pop-up question box would be nice as well (with the same effect as -upgradewallet)
981 2012-03-20 16:03:38 bitvampire has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
982 2012-03-20 16:03:38 <gavinandresen> Thinking out loud: should we give new users a way of creating old-format wallets?
983 2012-03-20 16:04:18 <sipa> imsaguy2: sorry for the delay; i'm building now
984 2012-03-20 16:04:19 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: yes
985 2012-03-20 16:04:23 <gavinandresen> I'm just thinking that tools like PyWallet might take a while to support changes we want make
986 2012-03-20 16:04:44 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: for that and for instances where people run luke's stable backports
987 2012-03-20 16:04:49 <jrmithdobbs> in "production"
988 2012-03-20 16:04:56 att_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
989 2012-03-20 16:04:58 <gavinandresen> I hate the word "stable
990 2012-03-20 16:05:18 bitvampire has joined
991 2012-03-20 16:05:18 <jrmithdobbs> well, ya, it's not really a great name, but you know what i mean
992 2012-03-20 16:05:26 <imsaguy2> sipa: there's no rush, this node is only for redundancy purposes
993 2012-03-20 16:05:30 <jrmithdobbs> stable should have had "s as well, sorry, heh
994 2012-03-20 16:05:45 <sipa> ok, so maybe a -walletformat=<NMUMBER> option; the default is the special value "keep", and there is another special value "upgrade", which is identical to $CLIENT_VERSION
995 2012-03-20 16:05:50 <gavinandresen> I do know what you mean, and the whole issue of "we're beta software so you should expect change" versus "we're trying to establish a currency so lets not change" is tough
996 2012-03-20 16:06:14 <imsaguy2> perpetual beta really isn't beta
997 2012-03-20 16:06:24 <sipa> imsaguy2: tell that to google!
998 2012-03-20 16:06:37 <imsaguy2> just because google does/did it, does not make it ok ;)
999 2012-03-20 16:06:41 <sipa> gavinandresen: and it means that the wallet will not be upgraded beyond that version (it will never be downgraded though)
1000 2012-03-20 16:06:59 <gavinandresen> I've given my criteria for out-of-beta: we're past the 50->25 transition, and I feel confident that my mom can run bitcoin and not lose coins accidently or to a virus
1001 2012-03-20 16:07:30 <imsaguy2> there will always be a chance for a virus
1002 2012-03-20 16:07:53 <sipa> imsaguy2: yes, but not necessarily a chance for losing coins to a virus
1003 2012-03-20 16:08:17 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: IMO, "we're beta software so you should expect change" for master, and "we're trying to establish a currency so lets not change" for stable :P
1004 2012-03-20 16:08:43 <sipa> luke-jr: for purely client-side issues, that policy is possible
1005 2012-03-20 16:08:51 <sipa> but there's more to it than that
1006 2012-03-20 16:08:57 <luke-jr> sipa: not *much* more
1007 2012-03-20 16:09:04 <imsaguy2> one could argue that as bitcoin becomes more 'mainstream', the chance for virus based bitcoin theft increases
1008 2012-03-20 16:09:14 <gavinandresen> speaking of which... I still need to review the BIP16 backport
1009 2012-03-20 16:09:17 <jrmithdobbs> imsaguy2: hence wallet crypto and such
1010 2012-03-20 16:09:41 <imsaguy2> jrmithdobbs: so long as there are end users, there's a risk of virus attacks.
1011 2012-03-20 16:09:46 bitvampire has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1012 2012-03-20 16:09:46 <luke-jr> https://github.com/luke-jr/bitcoin/commit/b2f0b7bf64ab82cf4f8fc3cca2e3bc208e153fb0 <-- BIP16 backport, in case the link got lost
1013 2012-03-20 16:09:55 <sipa> gavinandresen: ok, so except for wallet upgrading; any other pressing issues remaining?
1014 2012-03-20 16:10:07 <sipa> for rc5
1015 2012-03-20 16:10:11 <luke-jr> sipa: #946 if we don't want to see revival of the link exploit
1016 2012-03-20 16:11:09 bitvampire has joined
1017 2012-03-20 16:11:11 bitvampire has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1018 2012-03-20 16:11:21 <gavinandresen> sipa: afk for lunch for a bit, but I'm looking at all of the Priority High issues in the tracker
1019 2012-03-20 16:11:30 <sipa> #946 seems the right thing to do now the bug is disclosed, but BlueMatt probably knows the implications better
1020 2012-03-20 16:11:39 <rebroad> gavinandresen, I made the changes you mentioned, and others based on coding doc... I'll do the pull then shall I?
1021 2012-03-20 16:12:00 <rebroad> hope it's ok to do such low pri changes..
1022 2012-03-20 16:12:02 <sipa> rebroad: where's your git repo? i can have a look before you pull req
1023 2012-03-20 16:12:10 <jrmithdobbs> imsaguy2: noone said gavin's requirements were easy to meet. I think they're valid, though.
1024 2012-03-20 16:12:16 <rebroad> sipa: https://github.com/rebroad/bitcoin/compare/master...LoadBlockIndexKillable
1025 2012-03-20 16:12:31 <luke-jr> #954 looks like rc5 material too, but less urgent
1026 2012-03-20 16:12:33 <rebroad> I wasn't sure how disruptive a pull request was, so thought it better to check first..
1027 2012-03-20 16:12:50 <gavinandresen> rebroad: sure. Be sure to say how you tested, and if anybody else has tested, in the pull request
1028 2012-03-20 16:13:00 <luke-jr> rebroad: not at all, and you can revise it until someone pulls it
1029 2012-03-20 16:13:18 bitvampire has joined
1030 2012-03-20 16:13:36 <rebroad> luke-jr, gavinandresen, thanks for the info
1031 2012-03-20 16:13:37 <luke-jr> rebroad: it also makes a forum for discussing the pull and people can comment on specific lines, etc
1032 2012-03-20 16:14:15 <sipa> rebroad: there are some internal changes in the commits; can you remove those, or merge the two commits?
1033 2012-03-20 16:14:31 bitvampire has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1034 2012-03-20 16:14:44 <rebroad> sipa, sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by internal changes
1035 2012-03-20 16:15:28 graingert has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1036 2012-03-20 16:15:33 <rebroad> ah.. i see what you mean.. i need to merge by two commits..
1037 2012-03-20 16:15:38 <sipa> rebroad: in your first commit you do some things like adding comments and add code that doesn't match the style, and you fix it in the second
1038 2012-03-20 16:15:46 <rebroad> erm... will do as soon as I figure out how to.. :-s
1039 2012-03-20 16:15:47 <sipa> the overall change looks fine to me
1040 2012-03-20 16:16:07 <rebroad> wow.. cool. I wasn't expecting it to look fine already :)
1041 2012-03-20 16:16:36 <sipa> rebroad: i prefer using "git rebase -i upstream/master" for that, you'll get an editor in which you can select commits; make the second one a "fixup" for the second, and you're done
1042 2012-03-20 16:17:44 <sipa> you'll need to push -f to github afterwards, since you're overwriting history
1043 2012-03-20 16:17:52 <jrmithdobbs> rebroad: diff it to the previous commit, reset, nm sipas got you
1044 2012-03-20 16:18:31 occulta has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
1045 2012-03-20 16:19:46 <rebroad> hmmm. I did the rebase, but github looks unchanged... (also did a commit and a push again)
1046 2012-03-20 16:19:57 <jrmithdobbs> have to push -f
1047 2012-03-20 16:20:07 <jrmithdobbs> to force history overwrite
1048 2012-03-20 16:21:00 <rebroad> done a push -f but still looks the same in github :-s
1049 2012-03-20 16:21:20 <sipa> rebroad: what does git log show you
1050 2012-03-20 16:21:25 <sipa> what are the two top commits?
1051 2012-03-20 16:22:23 <rebroad> sipa, the same two that show in github..
1052 2012-03-20 16:22:30 graingert has joined
1053 2012-03-20 16:22:42 <sipa> ok, what did you see in the editor?
1054 2012-03-20 16:22:45 <sipa> also those two?
1055 2012-03-20 16:23:01 <luke-jr> fwiw, I'd do it this way: git reset --hard 28d0c4a4^; git diff 28d0c4a4^..5be86192 | patch -p1; git commit -c 28d0c4a4; git push -f
1056 2012-03-20 16:23:37 <rebroad> (but the merge was the one before those two...)
1057 2012-03-20 16:23:44 <rebroad> oh.. no.. someone else's merge
1058 2012-03-20 16:23:49 DiegoCerdan has joined
1059 2012-03-20 16:24:14 <rebroad> ah.. i didn't do a reset..
1060 2012-03-20 16:24:23 <sipa> rebroad: no need to reset
1061 2012-03-20 16:24:29 <sipa> (if you use rebase)
1062 2012-03-20 16:24:44 <sipa> which commits do you see?
1063 2012-03-20 16:25:31 <rebroad> ok, so I'm in rebase now, I see 28d0c4a and 5be8619
1064 2012-03-20 16:26:03 <sipa> what names do these have?
1065 2012-03-20 16:26:12 <luke-jr> wumpus: fwiw, my intent wasn't to bash minimize-to-tray :p
1066 2012-03-20 16:26:20 <rebroad> pick 28d0c4a Added ability to respond to signals during Block Loading stage.
1067 2012-03-20 16:26:20 <rebroad> pick 5be8619 Small change to allow user to exit during the loading of the block inde$
1068 2012-03-20 16:26:34 <rebroad> first time I rebased, I changed the desc of the 2nd to "fixup" or similar
1069 2012-03-20 16:26:49 <sipa> that's correct
1070 2012-03-20 16:26:55 <sipa> try it again, and save/exit editor?
1071 2012-03-20 16:27:10 <rebroad> ok, done..
1072 2012-03-20 16:27:37 <rebroad> I mean, the rebase is done, but how do I check it worked...?
1073 2012-03-20 16:27:42 <sipa> git log
1074 2012-03-20 16:27:51 <rebroad> ok, did that, it doesn't show though
1075 2012-03-20 16:27:59 <sipa> you should only see one commit now
1076 2012-03-20 16:28:21 <rebroad> I still see the two
1077 2012-03-20 16:29:00 <luke-jr> git reset --hard 28d0c4a4^; git diff 28d0c4a4^..5be86192 | patch -p1; git commit -ac 28d0c4a4; git push -f
1078 2012-03-20 16:29:11 <luke-jr> sipa: is it ok if he tries mine? :P
1079 2012-03-20 16:29:12 <rebroad> luke-jr, using that exact line?
1080 2012-03-20 16:29:24 <luke-jr> rebroad: yeah
1081 2012-03-20 16:30:54 <sipa> rebroad: did you change the description to fixup, or the action in front of it?
1082 2012-03-20 16:31:21 <sipa> (it's the "pick" that should be changed to "fixup")
1083 2012-03-20 16:31:35 <BlueMatt> sipa, gavinandresen 946 is fine by me, Id rather see qt-win32's gitian script get its output zip's version number incremented (since it is really fixing a qt but), but either way doesnt matter too much...
1084 2012-03-20 16:32:12 <sipa> BlueMatt: explain?
1085 2012-03-20 16:32:21 <gavinandresen> yes, I don't understand the issue
1086 2012-03-20 16:32:36 <sipa> imsaguy2: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/builds/0.6.0rc4-11-g9aa459b/
1087 2012-03-20 16:32:57 <rebroad> luke-jr, that's worked....
1088 2012-03-20 16:33:34 <BlueMatt> right now contrib/gitian-descriptors/qt-win32.yml outputs qt-win32-4.7.4gitian.zip, Id rather see it gets its version number incremented (to distinguish between versions prior to last friday and new, fixed, versions) because the fact that qt links mingw32 is, IMO, a qt bug
1089 2012-03-20 16:33:48 <BlueMatt> ie output qt-win32-4.7.4-gitian-2.zip or smth
1090 2012-03-20 16:33:56 <BlueMatt> but doing it in bitcoin-qt.pro is fine by me
1091 2012-03-20 16:33:58 Someguy123 is now known as Someguy123[afk]
1092 2012-03-20 16:34:09 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: you did test the -= in bitcoin-qt.pro in #946, right?
1093 2012-03-20 16:34:16 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: yeah
1094 2012-03-20 16:34:30 <luke-jr> I don't think we need to worry about trying to fix Qt's bugs IMO. Let Nokia handle that :p
1095 2012-03-20 16:34:37 <BlueMatt> though Id also like to see all the bug fixes surrounding this issue be an optional thing
1096 2012-03-20 16:34:37 Someguy123[afk] is now known as Someguy123
1097 2012-03-20 16:34:37 <luke-jr> so long as Bitcoin-Qt builds fine
1098 2012-03-20 16:34:45 <BlueMatt> (since it apparently isnt required when building on win32)
1099 2012-03-20 16:35:23 <gavinandresen> Why would or does linking matter with qt-win32-*.zip ? Don't we just get qt libraries from there?
1100 2012-03-20 16:35:39 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: qt-win32-*.zip provides the default value
1101 2012-03-20 16:35:53 <rebroad> My first ever git pull... I'm so proud :) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/959
1102 2012-03-20 16:35:54 <gavinandresen> So if it is broken, why would we use the default value?
1103 2012-03-20 16:35:55 <BlueMatt> we also get qmake from there, which sets the default LFLAGS
1104 2012-03-20 16:36:09 <BlueMatt> on win32 its not broken, xcompiling for win32 it is
1105 2012-03-20 16:36:17 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: git master hacks the default in Qt; #946 changes it in .pro
1106 2012-03-20 16:36:28 <BlueMatt> we can override it in bitcoin-qt.pro, or modify it in the qt build
1107 2012-03-20 16:36:34 cande has joined
1108 2012-03-20 16:36:45 <gavinandresen> Ok, now I understand, thank you. I agree changing the .pro is better.
1109 2012-03-20 16:36:48 <BlueMatt> doesnt matter much to me which, makes some sense to put it in the pro for people who dont use gitian, but I dont think thats more than one or two
1110 2012-03-20 16:37:31 <gavinandresen> Has anybody filed a bug against Qt about this yet?
1111 2012-03-20 16:37:31 <luke-jr> nice thing about qmake's -= operator is, if the bug isn't there, it does nothing ;P
1112 2012-03-20 16:37:31 <rebroad> I'm not sure if the patch -p1 did anything, but the rest did the trick.
1113 2012-03-20 16:37:38 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: afaik, no
1114 2012-03-20 16:37:45 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: i don't think anyone but you guys uses gitian
1115 2012-03-20 16:37:51 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: upstream Qt doesn't support it in the first place, but perhaps we could try
1116 2012-03-20 16:37:58 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I think linking -lmingw32 may be required in some cases
1117 2012-03-20 16:38:15 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: yea, nor do I think many people set up a xcompiling environment without it...
1118 2012-03-20 16:38:30 <BlueMatt> (-lmingw32 may be required building on win32, I dont know)
1119 2012-03-20 16:38:36 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: isn't -lmingwthrd the same library, but with threading support?
1120 2012-03-20 16:38:41 <BlueMatt> nfc
1121 2012-03-20 16:38:47 <gavinandresen> for the record, using a feature that's not supported by upstream Qt makes me very nervous. But I understand we need it to do the gitian thing....
1122 2012-03-20 16:38:58 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: just saying i think it should be in the pro
1123 2012-03-20 16:39:00 <sipa> which feaure?
1124 2012-03-20 16:39:06 <luke-jr> sipa: cross-compiling MingW
1125 2012-03-20 16:39:07 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: makes sense to me too
1126 2012-03-20 16:39:15 <sipa> ah
1127 2012-03-20 16:39:15 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: its half-supported...
1128 2012-03-20 16:39:26 <gavinandresen> ok, for the record, using a feature that is half supported.....
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1130 2012-03-20 16:39:30 <devrandom> (BlueMatt: agreed about versioning of the output)
1131 2012-03-20 16:39:31 <luke-jr> >_<
1132 2012-03-20 16:39:45 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: and I would prefer to xcompile it than keep going with one person building all the libs on one machine, even if it is aws...
1133 2012-03-20 16:39:54 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: rebroad opened pull request 959 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/959>
1134 2012-03-20 16:40:14 <BlueMatt> give me a sec, let me make a patch that makes me more happy...
1135 2012-03-20 16:40:29 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: ?
1136 2012-03-20 16:40:36 <BlueMatt> make it all optional...
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1138 2012-03-20 16:41:04 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I'd leave it enabled by default, since there's not likely a scenario where it hurts
1139 2012-03-20 16:41:19 <BlueMatt> is wumpus around?
1140 2012-03-20 16:43:03 <sipa> BlueMatt: do you happen to know what the earliest bitcoin version is that can deal with a 0.4.0-constructed wallet that doesn't use encryption?
1141 2012-03-20 16:43:21 <sipa> probably very old
1142 2012-03-20 16:43:33 <BlueMatt> if its encrypted, none, if its not encrypted...in theory 0.1
1143 2012-03-20 16:44:30 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: OK, pushed another commit onto #946 - is that OK?
1144 2012-03-20 16:45:27 <BlueMatt> oops, I was just gonna do that, but ok yea thats good, just check with wumpus if it breaks anything when built in qt creator on windows first though...
1145 2012-03-20 16:45:34 <luke-jr> this way, qmake MINGW_THREAD_BUGFIX=0 will disable the fix; otherwise, it's enabled
1146 2012-03-20 16:47:10 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: how about a nice long comment explaining what all the weird hackery is about in the .pro and gitian files?
1147 2012-03-20 16:47:40 <gavinandresen> ... because I know I'm going to forget what the issue is/was in two weeks.
1148 2012-03-20 16:48:19 Z0rZ0rZ0r has joined
1149 2012-03-20 16:48:23 <gavinandresen> (and I still don't understand why I might want to qmake MINGW_THREAD_BUGFIX=0)
1150 2012-03-20 16:49:04 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: BlueMatt is concerned that native Win32 builds might possibly not "need" the fixup for some reason
1151 2012-03-20 16:49:08 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: you may never not, Im not sure, but the bug never occured if you built in mingw on windows
1152 2012-03-20 16:49:15 <BlueMatt> and if you dont need it , enabling it may break something
1153 2012-03-20 16:50:07 <gavinandresen> okey doke. That should go in the comment.
1154 2012-03-20 16:50:34 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: #bitcoin-private please
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1158 2012-03-20 16:53:04 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: was there a reason to -D/-l ourselves rather than using -mthreads?
1159 2012-03-20 16:53:39 <BlueMatt> -mthreads forces dynamic linking of mingwthrd, so then you have to distribute mingwm10.dll as well...
1160 2012-03-20 16:53:47 <luke-jr> i c
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1162 2012-03-20 16:53:50 Raccoon` is now known as Raccoon
1163 2012-03-20 16:53:56 <sipa> ok, i prefer to avoid windows' dll hell :)
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1166 2012-03-20 16:55:14 <sipa> gavinandresen: if -walletupgrade or whatever equivalent is not given, should encryptwallet be disabled?
1167 2012-03-20 16:55:34 <sipa> or does the use of that command imply an upgrade to at least 40000?
1168 2012-03-20 16:56:03 <gavinandresen> Encrypting implies a wallet upgrade
1169 2012-03-20 16:56:05 <loktight> http://gavintech.blogspot.com/2012/03/full-disclosure-bitcoin-qt-on-windows.html good nfos
1170 2012-03-20 16:56:25 <gavinandresen> (I think the policy aught to be: don't upgrade wallet version unless the user does something explicit that would make them expect an upgrade)
1171 2012-03-20 16:56:37 <sipa> sounds very reasonable
1172 2012-03-20 16:56:38 <gavinandresen> (or, eventually, we'll tell them they have to and ask them to OK)
1173 2012-03-20 16:56:58 tucenaber has joined
1174 2012-03-20 16:57:02 <gavinandresen> loktight: thanks
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1177 2012-03-20 16:58:24 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: how's that comment?
1178 2012-03-20 16:58:37 <gavinandresen> RE: getting a rc5 out: I'm going to work a couple of high-priority issues this afternoon (Mac Growl -- cherrypicking/testing p2k's fix and Excess inventory during download)
1179 2012-03-20 16:58:58 <BlueMatt> anyone able to reproduce the gui freeze on win32?
1180 2012-03-20 16:59:08 <BlueMatt> apparently happens on anything 0.6rc1+
1181 2012-03-20 16:59:18 <sipa> can we first find out whether the qt mingwthread patching is necessary on windows?
1182 2012-03-20 16:59:29 <BlueMatt> rebroad: "Is there any documentation on PROTOCOL_VERSION I can refer to please? How is this decided and how does it cope with branches?" <--other than https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0014 not really
1183 2012-03-20 16:59:44 <BlueMatt> sipa: afaik only wumpus can answer that question
1184 2012-03-20 17:00:35 <sipa> ok
1185 2012-03-20 17:03:48 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: woops, forgot to push to github⦠https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/946/files has it now
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1190 2012-03-20 17:07:01 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: good, thanks.
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1205 2012-03-20 17:40:41 <imsaguy2> sipa: now it just errors out
1206 2012-03-20 17:40:45 <imsaguy2> no warning, no anything
1207 2012-03-20 17:40:58 <sipa> anything in debug.log?
1208 2012-03-20 17:41:15 <imsaguy2> "loading addresses" then "loading blockchain"
1209 2012-03-20 17:41:19 <imsaguy2> hold on, lemme look
1210 2012-03-20 17:41:26 <imsaguy2> haha
1211 2012-03-20 17:41:29 <imsaguy2> I just restarted it
1212 2012-03-20 17:41:33 <imsaguy2> and it seems to be working
1213 2012-03-20 17:41:45 <imsaguy2> 5 active connections and growing
1214 2012-03-20 17:41:49 <sipa> \o/
1215 2012-03-20 17:41:54 <imsaguy2> I'll still grab debug.log
1216 2012-03-20 17:43:29 <imsaguy2> on that chain I sent you, do you remember its block height?
1217 2012-03-20 17:44:23 <sipa> 170665 iirc
1218 2012-03-20 17:44:28 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
1219 2012-03-20 17:44:28 <gribble> 172058
1220 2012-03-20 17:45:31 <imsaguy2> I figured it out
1221 2012-03-20 17:45:37 <imsaguy2> it was 171565
1222 2012-03-20 17:45:57 <sipa> i only remembered the last two decimals it seems
1223 2012-03-20 17:47:09 <imsaguy2> no, I think you are right
1224 2012-03-20 17:47:32 <imsaguy2> wouldn't it be helpful to have the time/date be part of debug.log
1225 2012-03-20 17:47:45 <imsaguy2> "Started on:"
1226 2012-03-20 17:48:08 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1227 2012-03-20 17:48:11 <sipa> -logtimestamps
1228 2012-03-20 17:48:17 <imsaguy2> hah
1229 2012-03-20 17:48:17 <imsaguy2> ok
1230 2012-03-20 17:48:22 <imsaguy2> well, its too late for this one
1231 2012-03-20 17:48:29 <imsaguy2> the last load didn't dump an error
1232 2012-03-20 17:48:38 <imsaguy2> although a couple times ago there was one
1233 2012-03-20 17:48:47 <imsaguy2> but I don't know if it was from 2 weeks ago or from yesterday
1234 2012-03-20 17:50:59 * BlueMatt -> class
1235 2012-03-20 17:52:22 Ahimoth has joined
1236 2012-03-20 17:52:28 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gavinandresen opened pull request 960 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/960>
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1241 2012-03-20 18:02:56 <wumpus> sipa: no, it's not neccesary on windows
1242 2012-03-20 18:04:00 <sipa> wumpus: but does it harm on windows?
1243 2012-03-20 18:04:46 <wumpus> I don't know, it will probably work, but it's really a hack for cross-compiling
1244 2012-03-20 18:05:44 DiegoCerdan has left ("Konversation terminated!")
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1247 2012-03-20 18:11:36 <tcatm> http://188.138.99.157/stuff/qtvert17.png
1248 2012-03-20 18:12:42 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: laanwj opened pull request 961 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/961>
1249 2012-03-20 18:13:19 <matze> hi
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1255 2012-03-20 18:15:14 <wumpus> fixing it in the .pro should be a temporary solution only
1256 2012-03-20 18:15:14 coblee has joined
1257 2012-03-20 18:15:58 <luke-jr> wumpus: you mean, until Qt upstream has long-since fixed their mkspec?
1258 2012-03-20 18:16:22 <wumpus> we can patch the mkspec in the gitian build
1259 2012-03-20 18:16:55 <wumpus> ...evenually
1260 2012-03-20 18:16:58 <luke-jr> then it's broken for people who don't use gitian, and forces people to rebuild qt :p
1261 2012-03-20 18:17:00 <wumpus> it works this way so it's ok with me
1262 2012-03-20 18:17:23 <wumpus> well, people that don't use gitian generally don't cross-compile
1263 2012-03-20 18:17:49 <wumpus> if you use qt creator in windows there is no problem at all with threads or exceptions or anything like that
1264 2012-03-20 18:17:53 <luke-jr> why not?
1265 2012-03-20 18:17:57 <luke-jr> I cross-compile Qt stuff all the time
1266 2012-03-20 18:18:04 <wumpus> well then also patch qt
1267 2012-03-20 18:18:13 <wumpus> you're here so you know what you can do
1268 2012-03-20 18:18:18 <BlueMatt> tcatm: nice!
1269 2012-03-20 18:18:21 <luke-jr> and I know of at least one fork that doesn't use gitian to build Bitcoin-Qt
1270 2012-03-20 18:18:35 <luke-jr> it's just an unnecessary risk IMO
1271 2012-03-20 18:18:36 <BlueMatt> tcatm: I really like the left sidebar
1272 2012-03-20 18:18:44 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1273 2012-03-20 18:19:50 <wumpus> another option would be to make a build option for it and make it optional in the .pro, WORK_AROUND_BROKEN_QT_CROSS_COMPILE or so
1274 2012-03-20 18:20:24 <luke-jr> wumpus: the current pullreq has it optional
1275 2012-03-20 18:20:29 <wumpus> ok
1276 2012-03-20 18:20:34 <tcatm> BlueMatt: I think it takes too much space :/
1277 2012-03-20 18:21:01 <BlueMatt> tcatm: smaller fonts/icons would work too, but I likt it that big, personally
1278 2012-03-20 18:21:07 <wumpus> I think it's nice
1279 2012-03-20 18:21:16 <BlueMatt> the recent txes could still be a bit smaller, but...
1280 2012-03-20 18:21:16 JRWR has joined
1281 2012-03-20 18:21:18 <wumpus> only thing I don't like is the scroll bar on the right on the recent transactions
1282 2012-03-20 18:21:57 <wumpus> it's supposed to only show the last N transactions, not everything, there's the transactions tab for that
1283 2012-03-20 18:22:22 <sipa> I think the transaction list there is too large.
1284 2012-03-20 18:22:34 <sipa> (as in: the space occupied by a single item is too large)
1285 2012-03-20 18:22:42 <tcatm> My idea was to show all transactions that occured since the wallet was last opened.
1286 2012-03-20 18:22:50 <wumpus> there should not be a scroll bar at least
1287 2012-03-20 18:23:07 <wumpus> it's confusing, as if you can scroll the entire window
1288 2012-03-20 18:23:56 <tcatm> It's not the entire window; just the box on the right.
1289 2012-03-20 18:24:04 <wumpus> yes I know that, but it looks that way
1290 2012-03-20 18:24:30 <wumpus> I think people that want to see older transactions should simply go to the transactions tab
1291 2012-03-20 18:24:47 <luke-jr> https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-24889
1292 2012-03-20 18:25:08 <wumpus> nice luke-jr
1293 2012-03-20 18:25:32 <BlueMatt> thanks luke-jr
1294 2012-03-20 18:25:44 <wumpus> though you make it sound like a gcc issue
1295 2012-03-20 18:25:47 <luke-jr> feel free to vote it up ;)
1296 2012-03-20 18:25:55 <wumpus> doing that
1297 2012-03-20 18:25:56 <luke-jr> wumpus: I do?
1298 2012-03-20 18:26:06 Transisto has joined
1299 2012-03-20 18:27:09 <wumpus> well there's two problems as I understand 1) qt is broken 2) gcc is broken
1300 2012-03-20 18:27:50 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 962 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/962>
1301 2012-03-20 18:29:01 <wumpus> problem with qt is that they don't pass mthreads, problem with gcc is that mthread doesn't work with static compilation
1302 2012-03-20 18:29:51 <luke-jr> right
1303 2012-03-20 18:29:54 andytoshi has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5)
1304 2012-03-20 18:30:06 <wumpus> I've voted it up
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1309 2012-03-20 18:35:57 <sipa> ProcessMessage(verack, 0 bytes) : CHECKSUM ERROR nChecksum=e2e0f65d hdr.nChecksum=d9b4bef9
1310 2012-03-20 18:36:06 <sipa> i see this occasionally
1311 2012-03-20 18:36:45 iocor has joined
1312 2012-03-20 18:37:15 <BlueMatt> :(
1313 2012-03-20 18:37:30 <BlueMatt> I wish it said what the message was that failed...
1314 2012-03-20 18:38:16 <sipa> verack
1315 2012-03-20 18:38:23 <BlueMatt> oh...
1316 2012-03-20 18:38:54 graingert has joined
1317 2012-03-20 18:40:14 <matze> its hard time making software
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1320 2012-03-20 18:47:52 Snapman[afkers] is now known as Snapman
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1324 2012-03-20 18:56:15 <wumpus> well, nothing worth doing is easy is it :)
1325 2012-03-20 18:57:18 FACEFOX has joined
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1330 2012-03-20 19:15:36 <graingert> wumpus: not always true
1331 2012-03-20 19:15:51 <graingert> for example, snarky comments
1332 2012-03-20 19:16:21 ThomasV has joined
1333 2012-03-20 19:16:28 <graingert> and humorously self-referential comments
1334 2012-03-20 19:26:22 <matze> what does snarky mean ?
1335 2012-03-20 19:27:58 <usergff> tcatm: could you send again the link of last screenshot?
1336 2012-03-20 19:28:02 <matze> sarcastic k..
1337 2012-03-20 19:28:33 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1338 2012-03-20 19:28:42 <nanotube> ;;ud snarky
1339 2012-03-20 19:28:42 <gribble> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=snarky | A word that should be googled to find the definition as per direction from Dane Cook. It means short tempered or irritable.
1340 2012-03-20 19:28:50 larsivi has joined
1341 2012-03-20 19:30:44 <matze> k.. unbeherscht,reizbar.. thx
1342 2012-03-20 19:30:55 Joric has joined
1343 2012-03-20 19:32:32 <nanotube> heh dunno what those are. :) but if they have something to do with sarcasm, cynicism, and wit, then yes. :)
1344 2012-03-20 19:34:33 winterblack has joined
1345 2012-03-20 19:38:55 <BlueMatt> sipa: or someone, can you mark https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/956 as 0.6.0, Ive seen it several times, so it should be considered "confirmed" and really should be fixed before release
1346 2012-03-20 19:40:22 <usergff> anyone here have the link of last tcatm screenshot qtvert17
1347 2012-03-20 19:40:38 <BlueMatt> http://188.138.99.157/stuff/qtvert17.png
1348 2012-03-20 19:40:49 <sipa> BlueMatt: what about Diapolo's fix?
1349 2012-03-20 19:41:06 <usergff> thanks
1350 2012-03-20 19:41:07 <BlueMatt> sipa: ok, then we should confirm and add the workaround to AppInit2 or smth
1351 2012-03-20 19:43:52 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: look good besides those 2 things?
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1353 2012-03-20 19:44:58 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: yes; let me know when they're fixed and I'll do some sanity testing
1354 2012-03-20 19:45:39 pickett has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1355 2012-03-20 19:45:41 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: fixed in https://github.com/luke-jr/bitcoin/commit/bip16_0.4.x
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1358 2012-03-20 19:51:07 <gmaxwell> hehe. I saw pull 962 in my email and made a panic rush for the pull page "No!!!!!", I was happy to see everyone else beat me to it. :)
1359 2012-03-20 19:51:57 <BlueMatt> heh, damn -hubmode again...
1360 2012-03-20 19:53:49 Turingi has joined
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1365 2012-03-20 19:56:38 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: lol
1366 2012-03-20 19:57:10 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I actually maintain hub_mode_irc for Eligius still :p
1367 2012-03-20 19:57:57 <luke-jr> "connections" : 588,
1368 2012-03-20 19:57:57 <sipa> m
1369 2012-03-20 19:57:58 <sipa> nl
1370 2012-03-20 19:58:04 <sipa> join all channels?
1371 2012-03-20 19:58:08 <luke-jr> sipa: yes
1372 2012-03-20 19:58:20 pickett has joined
1373 2012-03-20 19:58:32 <luke-jr> (I did make sure the 0.3.23 version didn't merge easily with master before publishing my old code :P)
1374 2012-03-20 19:58:58 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: hub_mode_irc != hubmode
1375 2012-03-20 19:59:03 <BlueMatt> in fact, very, very different
1376 2012-03-20 19:59:08 <BlueMatt> actually, kinda opposite
1377 2012-03-20 19:59:31 <gmaxwell> I have a patch thats somewhat better than that... and also less burdening..
1378 2012-03-20 19:59:43 <BlueMatt> one makes a ridiculous number of outoing connection, the other one works to make many incoming connections
1379 2012-03-20 19:59:44 <gmaxwell> It joins two channels... and randomly hops every half hour or something like that.
1380 2012-03-20 19:59:58 vigilyn has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1381 2012-03-20 20:00:06 <gmaxwell> (because most peers only see you on joins, it's better to move around than to idle in many)
1382 2012-03-20 20:01:02 <sipa> gmaxwell: that should have been included in mainline when irc was not yet deprecated
1383 2012-03-20 20:01:33 <nanotube> hehe yea, a little late there with the great idea. :)
1384 2012-03-20 20:01:36 <gmaxwell> sipa: Well, I was thinking of submitting it around the time we decided to deprecate irc.
1385 2012-03-20 20:01:46 <nanotube> mm
1386 2012-03-20 20:01:54 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: we havent deprecated irc?
1387 2012-03-20 20:01:56 bitlad has joined
1388 2012-03-20 20:01:57 <gmaxwell> I still run it for the benefits of old nodes though.
1389 2012-03-20 20:02:01 bitlad has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1390 2012-03-20 20:02:20 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: We have, which is why I didn't bother submitting it.
1391 2012-03-20 20:02:26 <BlueMatt> ah
1392 2012-03-20 20:03:03 RazielZ has joined
1393 2012-03-20 20:04:25 bitvampire has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1394 2012-03-20 20:05:05 torsthaldo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1395 2012-03-20 20:05:06 <BlueMatt> "I got a monk guy, cool huh?"
1396 2012-03-20 20:05:15 <BlueMatt> heh
1397 2012-03-20 20:05:33 <tomoj> what are the non-deprecated methods of seeding? 'dns' seeding and the hard-coded list?
1398 2012-03-20 20:06:10 bitvampire has joined
1399 2012-03-20 20:06:24 <BlueMatt> yea
1400 2012-03-20 20:06:26 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: buttcoin opened issue 963 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/963>
1401 2012-03-20 20:08:18 <sipa> tomoj: and peer-to-peer addr exchange
1402 2012-03-20 20:08:26 torsthaldo has joined
1403 2012-03-20 20:08:34 <BlueMatt> thats not really seeding...but ok
1404 2012-03-20 20:08:46 <sipa> agree
1405 2012-03-20 20:08:57 <sipa> the command line is one, though
1406 2012-03-20 20:09:15 <BlueMatt> oh, yea -addnode
1407 2012-03-20 20:09:41 <gmaxwell> addr.txt too
1408 2012-03-20 20:09:48 <BlueMatt> we have an addr.txt?
1409 2012-03-20 20:10:00 <sipa> haha :D
1410 2012-03-20 20:10:11 <gmaxwell> Yes, unless I dreamed itâ the software looks for an addr.txt and does the expected thing.
1411 2012-03-20 20:10:17 <BlueMatt> nice
1412 2012-03-20 20:10:19 <tomoj> does the client try to connect to everyone it remembers at once when it starts up? I'm guessing no..
1413 2012-03-20 20:10:31 <tomoj> most recent n timestamps or something?
1414 2012-03-20 20:10:39 <BlueMatt> not all at once
1415 2012-03-20 20:10:40 <sipa> tomoj: no, at most one connection attempt simultaneously
1416 2012-03-20 20:10:47 <BlueMatt> but thats the idea
1417 2012-03-20 20:10:48 <sipa> and with a timeout of 5s
1418 2012-03-20 20:10:51 <gmaxwell> tomoj: it goes one at a time with a fast timeout. loosly sorted by most recently seen.
1419 2012-03-20 20:11:07 <tomoj> I see
1420 2012-03-20 20:11:41 <gmaxwell> I'd like to change thatâ only prefering recently seen for the first few connections then going to least recently tried for the rest.
1421 2012-03-20 20:12:01 <sipa> gmaxwell: addrman more or less does that
1422 2012-03-20 20:12:52 <sipa> actually, not really; it prefers succesfully tried older ones for the first, and new ones for the rest
1423 2012-03-20 20:14:04 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
1424 2012-03-20 20:15:24 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: sanity-testing Luke's BIP16 backport I'm downloading the blockchain from block 140,000, and getting 100% CPU usage (not disk I/O bound)
1425 2012-03-20 20:16:06 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: ... using a DB_CONFIG with set_flags DB_TXN_NOSYNC set_cachesize 1 500 1 and set_lg_bsize 100000
1426 2012-03-20 20:16:34 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: related to the BIP16 backport, or just in general?
1427 2012-03-20 20:17:07 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: in general. My hypothesis is tweaking the database params will get fast blockchain downloads.
1428 2012-03-20 20:17:20 <gavinandresen> (and so far, so good)
1429 2012-03-20 20:18:27 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: btw, I assume there was a reason to move the "Safety limits" lower?
1430 2012-03-20 20:18:31 <luke-jr> https://github.com/luke-jr/bitcoin/commit/bip16_0.4.x#L0L377
1431 2012-03-20 20:19:20 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: man, you knowâ I played around a bunch with database settings with no luckâ but that was before the mlock fix on a system that suffered greatly from it. So you may be right.
1432 2012-03-20 20:20:23 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: too many variables to play with. But from this test, I think different environments for the wallet versus everything else might be a really big win
1433 2012-03-20 20:20:46 <gmaxwell> We could also change the settings just for the initial sync if we want to be extra conservative.
1434 2012-03-20 20:21:21 Turingi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1435 2012-03-20 20:21:29 <gavinandresen> Yes, although I'm not sure we can cleanly close and then reopen a DbEnv while we're running
1436 2012-03-20 20:21:49 <gavinandresen> (it'd be nice to make that work, though, so we we didnt' have to restart when encrypting the wallet)
1437 2012-03-20 20:22:50 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: sipa has a fancy append-only wallet formatâ¦
1438 2012-03-20 20:23:13 <sipa> luke-jr: needs more work still
1439 2012-03-20 20:23:23 <gmaxwell> one thing we'll have to improve is making sure that it behaves right when the databases are corruptâ also make it less likely to get killed rather than shutdown cleanly during initial sync.
1440 2012-03-20 20:23:33 <luke-jr> yeah, just saying in the long-term the bdb wallet issues should go away
1441 2012-03-20 20:23:43 <sipa> gavinandresen: does DB_TXN_WRITE_NOSYNC have the same performance?
1442 2012-03-20 20:23:55 <sipa> (it seems more safe than DN_TXN_NOSYNC)
1443 2012-03-20 20:23:57 <gavinandresen> I don't know, haven't tried.
1444 2012-03-20 20:24:19 <gavinandresen> Too many variables to play with.....
1445 2012-03-20 20:24:24 <sipa> but i'm in favor of moving away from bdb for wallets, yes
1446 2012-03-20 20:26:30 Cory has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1447 2012-03-20 20:26:35 * luke-jr wonders how much more space it would take to store an index of hash(scriptPubKey): (balance, txnlist)
1448 2012-03-20 20:28:37 <gavinandresen> I think I'd do it as hash(scriptPubKey): (txid, whichOutput)
1449 2012-03-20 20:30:04 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: RE: lower safety limits: lower where?
1450 2012-03-20 20:30:36 pusle has joined
1451 2012-03-20 20:30:42 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: in the codeflow
1452 2012-03-20 20:30:48 <luke-jr> it was moved down
1453 2012-03-20 20:31:27 <gavinandresen> it should probably be removed entirely; if the transaction IsStandard() then the safety limits aren't needed.
1454 2012-03-20 20:31:36 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: hash(scriptPubKey) will map to multiple outputs usually; storing an aggregate balance, plus the txnids should be sufficient I'd think
1455 2012-03-20 20:32:22 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: I suppose, but part of the reason for maintaining a stable branch is so people can avoid rebasing local patches often
1456 2012-03-20 20:32:31 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: I've always regretted storing aggregates in the database.
1457 2012-03-20 20:33:42 <luke-jr> hmm,ok
1458 2012-03-20 20:33:53 <luke-jr> I guess it can't be *that* slow to scan a bunch of known txnids
1459 2012-03-20 20:34:22 <gavinandresen> If it is, and you're re-scanning, then you should create a cache at an above-the-database level.
1460 2012-03-20 20:34:41 <gavinandresen> err, re-scanning repeatedly the same key....
1461 2012-03-20 20:35:47 <gavinandresen> Although even that might not be needed if your database or OS is smart about caching
1462 2012-03-20 20:36:02 agricocb has joined
1463 2012-03-20 20:36:14 <sipa> gavinandresen: ok, i'm testing DB_TXN_NOSYNC in combination with loadblocks
1464 2012-03-20 20:37:44 cande has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1465 2012-03-20 20:40:02 Cory has joined
1466 2012-03-20 20:40:17 <sipa> lg_bsize = 100000; 100k only?
1467 2012-03-20 20:40:44 andytoshi has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5)
1468 2012-03-20 20:40:53 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1469 2012-03-20 20:40:56 <gavinandresen> sipa: 100k was just the first value I tried
1470 2012-03-20 20:41:04 agricocb has joined
1471 2012-03-20 20:41:36 <luke-jr> hmm
1472 2012-03-20 20:41:44 <luke-jr> it's too bad you guys outran the old testnet chain.
1473 2012-03-20 20:41:55 <luke-jr> would've been nice for testing the BIP16 backport
1474 2012-03-20 20:43:17 <sipa> luke-jr: i may have a backup, with loadblocks you can do tests
1475 2012-03-20 20:43:36 <luke-jr> hmm
1476 2012-03-20 20:43:49 <luke-jr> actually
1477 2012-03-20 20:44:10 <luke-jr> since the blk file has orphans, wouldn't a non-backup work, so long as it saw the old chain first?
1478 2012-03-20 20:46:18 <makomk> BlueMatt: the info I could find suggested -lmingw32 is implicitly linked and that -lmingwthrd just needs to be linked before it. Meh.
1479 2012-03-20 20:47:39 <BlueMatt> makomk: ok great, sadly Im pretty sure we cant get anything linked before mingw32 thanks to qmake
1480 2012-03-20 20:48:10 <luke-jr> O.o
1481 2012-03-20 20:49:51 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1482 2012-03-20 20:49:55 <sipa> 132827 blocks imported in 5 minutes
1483 2012-03-20 20:50:14 cande has joined
1484 2012-03-20 20:50:17 molecular has joined
1485 2012-03-20 20:50:39 darkee has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1486 2012-03-20 20:51:40 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1487 2012-03-20 20:54:11 darkee has joined
1488 2012-03-20 20:54:11 Diablo-D3 has joined
1489 2012-03-20 20:58:04 <luke-jr> hmm
1490 2012-03-20 20:58:17 <luke-jr> mingwthrd is a 1-line lib
1491 2012-03-20 20:58:21 <luke-jr> int _CRT_MT = 1;
1492 2012-03-20 20:58:29 <BlueMatt> heh
1493 2012-03-20 20:59:22 <BlueMatt> might as well just -D_CRT_MT=1...
1494 2012-03-20 21:00:17 <sipa> a macro definition is not the same as a variable
1495 2012-03-20 21:00:50 <luke-jr> it isn't.
1496 2012-03-20 21:00:54 <BlueMatt> ok, so we might as well put in _CRT_MT = 1; in headers.h
1497 2012-03-20 21:00:56 <sipa> so unless you intend to recompile mingw32 to statically redefine _CRT_MT as 1, i think we should stick to linking mingthrd
1498 2012-03-20 21:00:57 <luke-jr> I'm not sure we can actually do that either
1499 2012-03-20 21:01:05 <luke-jr> sipa: probably safest
1500 2012-03-20 21:01:15 <BlueMatt> might as well != we should
1501 2012-03-20 21:01:21 <luke-jr> I suspect GCC may hard-code which .o file to use :/
1502 2012-03-20 21:01:59 <luke-jr> actually, maybe that's why we had to take -lmingw32 out
1503 2012-03-20 21:02:25 * luke-jr ponders how we're getting mingw32.a minus the one file setting _CRT_MT to 0
1504 2012-03-20 21:03:16 Cory has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1505 2012-03-20 21:04:37 <sipa> luke-jr: maybe the variable is uninitialized, and they hope it gets a different value from 1? ;)
1506 2012-03-20 21:04:47 Cory has joined
1507 2012-03-20 21:05:00 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1508 2012-03-20 21:05:05 <luke-jr> sipa: it's not.
1509 2012-03-20 21:05:19 <luke-jr> both .o files (in mingw32 and mingwthrd) provide a symbol with a value
1510 2012-03-20 21:05:21 <makomk> luke-jr: linker magic, I expect ;-)
1511 2012-03-20 21:05:26 <luke-jr> makomk: probably :<
1512 2012-03-20 21:05:47 Transisto has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1513 2012-03-20 21:05:54 <luke-jr> if it were me, I'd just have mingwthrd use an initializer function to set it to 1 :p
1514 2012-03-20 21:06:09 <luke-jr> (if it were me writing mingw, I mean)
1515 2012-03-20 21:06:41 en729 has joined
1516 2012-03-20 21:08:18 specular has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1517 2012-03-20 21:08:28 kish is now known as oracle
1518 2012-03-20 21:08:30 <sipa> ok, 3 tests with cache=100MiB, log=100MiB, logbsize=10MiB; loading blocks from a file on disk during 5 minutes; DB_TXN_NOSYNC, DB_TXN_WRITE_NOSYNC and neither all load around 130k blocks in that time
1519 2012-03-20 21:08:46 oracle is now known as kish
1520 2012-03-20 21:10:25 Transisto has joined
1521 2012-03-20 21:14:31 TransistOrg has joined
1522 2012-03-20 21:14:36 <sipa> loading blocks from a file does disable the normal flushing mechanism; if i don't disable that (=> flush every 500 blocks), it's significantly slower
1523 2012-03-20 21:14:42 Transisto has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1524 2012-03-20 21:16:06 marf_away has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
1525 2012-03-20 21:16:06 <sipa> maybe it's meaningful to decrease that flush frequency while before the last checkpoint
1526 2012-03-20 21:16:09 <gavinandresen> sipa: do you have a baseline measurement with default cache/log/etc ?
1527 2012-03-20 21:16:37 <sipa> gavinandresen: i'll do that too
1528 2012-03-20 21:18:25 <ternit> is there a Polish translation for bitcoin client?
1529 2012-03-20 21:19:07 ThomasV has joined
1530 2012-03-20 21:19:13 iocor has joined
1531 2012-03-20 21:19:48 <luke-jr> ternit: yes
1532 2012-03-20 21:20:26 <ternit> cheers, was just wondering
1533 2012-03-20 21:21:04 <sipa> 8:36 to load with high cache setting and DB_TXN_WRITE_NOSYNC, but normal flushing
1534 2012-03-20 21:21:23 <sipa> (133k, what the previous tests took 5:00 to do)
1535 2012-03-20 21:24:39 <sipa> gmaxwell: you still have those block downloading speed graphs somewhere?
1536 2012-03-20 21:25:58 <gavinandresen> Anybody know off the top of their heads what the gcc flag is to display the library search path?
1537 2012-03-20 21:26:10 TransistOrg has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1538 2012-03-20 21:26:51 <gavinandresen> never mind, -print-search-dirs....
1539 2012-03-20 21:29:49 matze has quit (Quit: good night)
1540 2012-03-20 21:31:38 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1541 2012-03-20 21:31:39 Transisto has joined
1542 2012-03-20 21:32:44 Joric_ has joined
1543 2012-03-20 21:33:06 twmz__ has joined
1544 2012-03-20 21:34:26 <gmaxwell> sipa: http://people.xiph.org/~greg/bitcoin-sync.png
1545 2012-03-20 21:34:29 erv has joined
1546 2012-03-20 21:35:09 twmz_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1547 2012-03-20 21:35:28 <gmaxwell> sipa: http://people.xiph.org/~greg/bitcoin-sync-speed.png
1548 2012-03-20 21:35:32 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1549 2012-03-20 21:35:48 twmz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1550 2012-03-20 21:36:01 <sipa> gmaxwell: thanks; seems that setting the cache setting this high makes my system approximately as fast as yours
1551 2012-03-20 21:36:30 Joric_ is now known as Joric
1552 2012-03-20 21:37:00 <gmaxwell> That sounds like fantastic news.
1553 2012-03-20 21:37:01 <sipa> when disabling flushing
1554 2012-03-20 21:37:35 <gmaxwell> I don't see any reason to flush before the highest checkpoint.
1555 2012-03-20 21:37:51 <sipa> meh, maybe every 10k blocks
1556 2012-03-20 21:38:10 <sipa> if you don't, you'll have a single flush of over 30s afterwards
1557 2012-03-20 21:40:21 <gmaxwell> I suspect the flushes make it slow because they seralize operation. e.g. everything stops while you wait for all the pending writes to get flushed out.
1558 2012-03-20 21:41:12 <sipa> 18 minutes already, with only disabled flushes
1559 2012-03-20 21:41:39 braunshedd has joined
1560 2012-03-20 21:42:36 <gavinandresen> I'm befuddled by bdb versioning....
1561 2012-03-20 21:42:58 <gavinandresen> What release did we switch from bdb 4.7 to bdb 4.8 ?
1562 2012-03-20 21:42:59 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i see no reason to flush at all
1563 2012-03-20 21:43:26 <phantomcircuit> the block chain and transaction tree saved on the client are really just a local cache of the network version
1564 2012-03-20 21:43:26 Joric_ has joined
1565 2012-03-20 21:43:29 Joric_ has quit (Changing host)
1566 2012-03-20 21:43:29 Joric_ has joined
1567 2012-03-20 21:46:17 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1568 2012-03-20 21:49:26 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: I think 0.4.0
1569 2012-03-20 21:49:34 cande has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
1570 2012-03-20 21:49:39 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: yup.
1571 2012-03-20 21:49:44 <luke-jr> but if it's important, don't trust me
1572 2012-03-20 21:49:54 <luke-jr> only about 55% sure
1573 2012-03-20 21:50:02 copumpkin is now known as DBorello
1574 2012-03-20 21:50:52 <gavinandresen> It was 0.4, I checked the release notes
1575 2012-03-20 21:51:47 diki has joined
1576 2012-03-20 21:51:53 DBorello is now known as DBordelIo
1577 2012-03-20 21:52:08 <diki> Is it possible for a slogan to be put in Bitcoin-QT in the title bar?
1578 2012-03-20 21:52:16 <diki> Just saying "Bitcoin Wallet" is kind of bland
1579 2012-03-20 21:52:59 <braunshedd> If you have an idea I'm sure it can be included
1580 2012-03-20 21:53:12 <diki> Perhaps something in the lines of "Bitcoin Wallet - Decentralized P2P Cryptocurrency"
1581 2012-03-20 21:53:29 <gavinandresen> "Bitcoin: Now With More Cowbell!"
1582 2012-03-20 21:53:36 <braunshedd> :P
1583 2012-03-20 21:53:46 <luke-jr> "Bitcoin-Qt <version>"
1584 2012-03-20 21:54:53 <ternit> what does Qt stand for ?
1585 2012-03-20 21:55:07 <braunshedd> Really its just asthestics, so it doesn't have much impact
1586 2012-03-20 21:55:20 <braunshedd> Qt is the graphics library they're using I think
1587 2012-03-20 21:55:24 <luke-jr> ternit: "cute"
1588 2012-03-20 21:55:25 <sipa> gavinandresen, gmaxwell: any other combination you want tested? http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-test.txt
1589 2012-03-20 21:55:32 specular has joined
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1591 2012-03-20 21:56:48 <phantomcircuit> sipa, essentially you're testing turning off write guarantees in bdb right
1592 2012-03-20 21:56:58 <phantomcircuit> but only for the main db and not for the wallet db
1593 2012-03-20 21:57:04 en729 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1594 2012-03-20 21:57:34 <sipa> phantomcircuit: LC and NS are for the entire bdb environnement; NF is only for blkindex.dat
1595 2012-03-20 21:58:14 <sipa> the only disadvantage of NS is that in case of a crash, more data may be lost (but still consistent)
1596 2012-03-20 21:58:38 <phantomcircuit> hmm
1597 2012-03-20 21:58:43 <sipa> NF creates larger/more log files, and a longer flush time afterwards, but that's all
1598 2012-03-20 21:58:57 <phantomcircuit> i definitely think the wallet db should be sync'd
1599 2012-03-20 21:58:58 <Joric_> sipa, how do you make 'large cache' ? fwrite wrapper or something ?
1600 2012-03-20 21:59:14 <sipa> Joric_: dbenv.set_cachesize
1601 2012-03-20 21:59:25 <phantomcircuit> sipa, yeah that's a very common optimization
1602 2012-03-20 21:59:35 <gavinandresen> You can put a DB_CONFIG file in your datadir
1603 2012-03-20 22:01:11 <sipa> i'm in favor of using a larger cache and disabling flushing (or significantly decreasing its frequency) for the block database
1604 2012-03-20 22:01:17 <gavinandresen> sipa: LC/NF looks to me like the sweet spot, and we could do that without separate environments for wallet versus blockchain, right?
1605 2012-03-20 22:01:19 <sipa> i wouldn't use nosync
1606 2012-03-20 22:01:24 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1607 2012-03-20 22:01:25 <phantomcircuit> sipa, essentially if you let the log file grow to be much larger than normal you're saying that lookup time have a partially linear component (everything in the log is searched in O(n)) is a good trade off for avoiding the series of fsync calls required to collapse the log into the main db structure
1608 2012-03-20 22:01:53 <gavinandresen> (agreed with leaving sync alone)
1609 2012-03-20 22:02:06 <phantomcircuit> NOSYNC with a large log has almost no effect since you're doing sequential writes
1610 2012-03-20 22:02:55 <sipa> also, this is only a test to 133k, not one for the entire blockchain download
1611 2012-03-20 22:02:55 DBordelIo is now known as copumpkin
1612 2012-03-20 22:03:25 <sipa> maybe the working set becomes larger than 100 MiB after that, and you see a very strong slowdown
1613 2012-03-20 22:03:42 <phantomcircuit> sipa, it's possible that the increase in transactions will cause the trade off between lookup time and sequential/random write mix to chance
1614 2012-03-20 22:03:53 <phantomcircuit> it would probably be best to do a test all the way through
1615 2012-03-20 22:04:05 DBordello has joined
1616 2012-03-20 22:04:28 <Joric_> heh 133k is just 27.54% of the current blockchain
1617 2012-03-20 22:04:35 <Joric_> multiply values by 4
1618 2012-03-20 22:04:50 <sipa> Joric_: i'll be very happy if it's just by 4
1619 2012-03-20 22:04:59 braunshedd has quit ()
1620 2012-03-20 22:08:20 <DBordello> Any chance of sipa's pull request #841 getting merged anytime soon? (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/841)
1621 2012-03-20 22:08:45 Nicksasa has joined
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1623 2012-03-20 22:08:45 Nicksasa has joined
1624 2012-03-20 22:10:18 <tomoj> do you force push to your pull reqs?
1625 2012-03-20 22:10:33 en729 has joined
1626 2012-03-20 22:10:38 <tomoj> eh, wrong channel
1627 2012-03-20 22:10:56 <sipa> DBordello: 0.7 probably
1628 2012-03-20 22:11:31 <DBordello> sipa, gotcha. Maybe I will figure out how to pull it myself and give it a shot
1629 2012-03-20 22:12:17 specular has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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1632 2012-03-20 22:17:09 <gmaxwell> sipa: we could pull some generally applicable config tweaks now, and consider splitting the enviroment (or just dropping bdb wallets) later.
1633 2012-03-20 22:17:19 <sipa> gmaxwell: ack
1634 2012-03-20 22:18:34 <sipa> is +100 MiB just for database caching acceptable?
1635 2012-03-20 22:18:39 <sipa> as memory requirement?
1636 2012-03-20 22:18:50 <sipa> maybe make it configurable, for low-memory situations
1637 2012-03-20 22:19:59 <sipa> i'm now benchmarking a full blockchain load, with LC/NF
1638 2012-03-20 22:20:01 FACEFOX has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1639 2012-03-20 22:20:17 <gmaxwell> Soâ people already complain about the peak memory usage on VPS (esp with many incoming connections) ... but, speedups for this are really worth it.
1640 2012-03-20 22:22:12 forsetifox has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1641 2012-03-20 22:22:38 <gmaxwell> I don't think we need or want read caching (the OS will do it) but it doesn't appear possible to distinguish this with bdb.
1642 2012-03-20 22:22:50 agricocb has joined
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1644 2012-03-20 22:26:15 FACEFOX has joined
1645 2012-03-20 22:26:35 <BlueMatt> sipa: is it not already configureable - people can set the DB_CONFIG file or whatever it is
1646 2012-03-20 22:26:39 bluefirecorp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1647 2012-03-20 22:26:52 <sipa> BlueMatt: meh
1648 2012-03-20 22:28:17 FACEFOX has quit (Client Quit)
1649 2012-03-20 22:28:26 bluefirecorp has joined
1650 2012-03-20 22:28:33 <sipa> 11 minutes for 145k blocks
1651 2012-03-20 22:35:07 en729 has quit ()
1652 2012-03-20 22:35:52 TD has joined
1653 2012-03-20 22:37:05 <sipa> 19 minutes for 160k blocks
1654 2012-03-20 22:37:32 <usergff> how many people downlosd satoshi bitcoin app in a day?
1655 2012-03-20 22:37:44 <usergff> avereage
1656 2012-03-20 22:42:48 Nesetalis has joined
1657 2012-03-20 22:43:52 <gmaxwell> sipa: wow, thats .. better than the numbers I was getting I think!
1658 2012-03-20 22:43:57 Joric_ is now known as Joric
1659 2012-03-20 22:43:58 <gmaxwell> oh.. right.. checkpoint moved forward. :)
1660 2012-03-20 22:44:12 <gmaxwell> sipa: what disk is this on?
1661 2012-03-20 22:44:27 <DBordello> how long does the client take to compile on a *real* computer? My AWS micro instance is a bit slow
1662 2012-03-20 22:44:38 <sipa> gmaxwell: 750 GB, 5400k RPM, 2.5" laptop disk, on an encrypted filesystem
1663 2012-03-20 22:45:10 <DBordello> sipa, woah, nice speed improvement
1664 2012-03-20 22:45:24 <gmaxwell> <3
1665 2012-03-20 22:45:41 <sipa> sorry, 640GB
1666 2012-03-20 22:46:03 <gmaxwell> oh nevermind then!
1667 2012-03-20 22:46:26 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
1668 2012-03-20 22:46:27 <gribble> 172093
1669 2012-03-20 22:46:33 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1670 2012-03-20 22:46:54 <gmaxwell> sipa: it'll be a lot slower after the highest checkpoint... but thats okay.
1671 2012-03-20 22:47:15 <sipa> 170k blocks in 30.5 minutes
1672 2012-03-20 22:47:31 <sipa> (latest checkpoint is 168k(
1673 2012-03-20 22:48:21 <sipa> also, i still have flush-every-500-blocks after the last checkpoint; that's 10s everytime
1674 2012-03-20 22:49:19 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1675 2012-03-20 22:50:27 <sipa> etotheipi_: i wonder, if someone would create an invalid blockchain that does pass AcceptBlock (for example, double spend, but correct PoW), i assume armory will use it (since that is written to blk0001.dat)
1676 2012-03-20 22:51:57 FACEFOX has joined
1677 2012-03-20 22:52:27 <ternit> if i was to create a service with QandA about bitcoins would any of the devs take part in answering(from time to time) the questions or is to much to ask?
1678 2012-03-20 22:52:31 <sipa> gmaxwell: hmm, since 171939 it suddenly slowed down a lot
1679 2012-03-20 22:52:31 <gmaxwell> sipa: thats not even a navel gazing questionâ if I send it out of order it will end up there. e.g. send invalid block 10 then send 9.
1680 2012-03-20 22:52:59 <gmaxwell> sipa: changed where it was fetching from?
1681 2012-03-20 22:53:04 <sipa> no
1682 2012-03-20 22:53:22 <sipa> oh, yes, indeed
1683 2012-03-20 22:53:56 <tomoj> how many peers does the client download from at once?
1684 2012-03-20 22:54:01 <luke-jr> 1
1685 2012-03-20 22:54:22 <luke-jr> and no, making it more won't help
1686 2012-03-20 22:54:28 <gmaxwell> that'll be the next hurdle .. right now if it connects first to a node in africa connected via tin-can-and-string it will happily keep fetching from there until you get tired of it and restart. :)
1687 2012-03-20 22:54:45 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: well, it would help to switch peers if you happend to be hitting a slow one.
1688 2012-03-20 22:54:47 <tomoj> sorry, why won't it help? :)
1689 2012-03-20 22:55:05 <luke-jr> tomoj: because bandwidth isn't usually the problem
1690 2012-03-20 22:55:05 <gmaxwell> tomoj: because except in rare cases where you hit a really slow peer the peer speed is not the issue.
1691 2012-03-20 22:55:21 <tomoj> what is the issue?
1692 2012-03-20 22:55:28 <gmaxwell> tomoj: database activity.
1693 2012-03-20 22:55:35 <gmaxwell> Though it looks like sipa just fixed that...
1694 2012-03-20 22:55:36 <luke-jr> tomoj: verifying the data
1695 2012-03-20 22:55:47 graingert has left ()
1696 2012-03-20 22:55:56 <gmaxwell> and is now syncing in under 45 minutes on a laptop drive. \O/
1697 2012-03-20 22:56:18 <tomoj> I see
1698 2012-03-20 22:56:53 <sipa> gmaxwell: 36 minutes and 6 seconds
1699 2012-03-20 22:57:12 <BlueMatt> damn
1700 2012-03-20 22:57:20 <sipa> (note that most of it was using my -loadblock patch, from a local disk drive)
1701 2012-03-20 22:57:26 <BlueMatt> still
1702 2012-03-20 22:58:45 <tomoj> if you drop in a blk0001.dat and blkindex.dat, will the client assume they contain valid data?
1703 2012-03-20 22:58:51 <gmaxwell> tomoj: yes.
1704 2012-03-20 22:59:08 <gmaxwell> Why is why doing that is dangerous for the networkâ
1705 2012-03-20 22:59:32 <gmaxwell> if a blk0001.dat/blkindex.dat source gets corrupted data then all nodes started from it may fork off all at once at some point.
1706 2012-03-20 22:59:42 <Diablo-D3> my 7970 isnt here yet :<
1707 2012-03-20 22:59:45 <tomoj> yeah..
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1711 2012-03-20 23:00:45 <Joric> did you finally consider allocating another 100mb for bdb cache? :D
1712 2012-03-20 23:01:23 <gmaxwell> sipa: can you try again with that cache reduced to something like 25 MB? does it make a big difference?
1713 2012-03-20 23:02:35 * luke-jr ponders what blkindex has that a flatfile of positions wouldn't do
1714 2012-03-20 23:02:56 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: faster than O(N) lookups.
1715 2012-03-20 23:03:07 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: lookups by what?
1716 2012-03-20 23:03:25 <luke-jr> if we can survive with only lookups by heightâ¦
1717 2012-03-20 23:03:39 <gmaxwell> transaction ID, block hash.
1718 2012-03-20 23:03:43 <luke-jr> i c
1719 2012-03-20 23:04:28 <tomoj> how big (in kB) is the biggest block so far? any tool that can help answer questions like these?
1720 2012-03-20 23:06:02 <sipa> luke-jr: the most common operation in blkindex.dat is looking up whether a particular txout is spent
1721 2012-03-20 23:07:00 da2ce7 has joined
1722 2012-03-20 23:07:15 <sipa> currently blkindex.dat contains for each spending where it was spent
1723 2012-03-20 23:07:25 <sipa> that isn't used for anything but debug output
1724 2012-03-20 23:08:18 <gavinandresen> tomoj: https://github.com/gavinandresen/bitcointools would be easy to hack to give you stats like max block size (if you know python)
1725 2012-03-20 23:09:40 <sipa> gmaxwell: ok, i'll retry with 25 MiB now
1726 2012-03-20 23:10:01 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1727 2012-03-20 23:12:08 <gmaxwell> sipa: I asked because 25MiB would be a much more reasonable memory increase.. if it's even close I'd prefer going with that.
1728 2012-03-20 23:12:26 copumpkin has joined
1729 2012-03-20 23:14:06 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sipa opened pull request 964 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/964>
1730 2012-03-20 23:15:40 <luke-jr> what is it now?
1731 2012-03-20 23:16:26 <gmaxwell> 100.
1732 2012-03-20 23:16:37 <luke-jr> I mean mainline
1733 2012-03-20 23:16:43 <sipa> 256 KiB
1734 2012-03-20 23:16:51 <luke-jr> heck, I'd try 4 MB then >.>
1735 2012-03-20 23:17:01 <gmaxwell> I was just about to try 8...
1736 2012-03-20 23:17:45 <sipa> gmaxwell: my test is a merge of fastblocks and loadblock, with -loadblock=oldblk0001.dat -dbcache=25
1737 2012-03-20 23:17:48 <luke-jr> whatever it is, how about falling back to 256 KB if the last block was within the past 24 hours
1738 2012-03-20 23:17:53 <luke-jr> maybe even scale it?
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1740 2012-03-20 23:19:01 <sipa> the cache size cannot be changed while the db env is open
1741 2012-03-20 23:19:13 <luke-jr> sipa: so decide at startup?
1742 2012-03-20 23:19:29 <luke-jr> if we have 0 blocks, <max sane amount>; otherwise, <lesser sane amount>
1743 2012-03-20 23:20:26 <sipa> luke-jr: how do you know the number of blocks before opening the db? ;)
1744 2012-03-20 23:20:28 <etotheipi_> sipa, I don't understand your hypothetical situation... if it's got the correct proof of work and it's the longest chain, Armory will accept it
1745 2012-03-20 23:20:34 att_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1746 2012-03-20 23:20:43 <sipa> etotheipi_: ok
1747 2012-03-20 23:21:01 <gmaxwell> sipa: I'm pulling off a local fast node over gigabit ethernet.
1748 2012-03-20 23:21:21 <etotheipi_> Armory even handles arbitrary re-orgs... I spent like 2 weeks in MSVS debugger getting that shit right
1749 2012-03-20 23:21:53 <luke-jr> sipa: -.-
1750 2012-03-20 23:22:00 <etotheipi_> (ok, 2 weeks is an exaggeration... it was probably a really rough 3 days)
1751 2012-03-20 23:22:38 <sipa> luke-jr: i know, you could open and close again, but if 25 MiB or 8 or 4 attains a good speed, i wouldn't bother
1752 2012-03-20 23:23:50 <gmaxwell> I'm testing 4 now.
1753 2012-03-20 23:24:14 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: khorben opened pull request 965 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/965>
1754 2012-03-20 23:24:22 stalled has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1755 2012-03-20 23:24:23 <sipa> up to 145k, 25 seems neglectibly slower than 100
1756 2012-03-20 23:24:27 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
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1758 2012-03-20 23:25:27 <gmaxwell> 03/20/12 23:19:43 -> 03/20/12 23:24:30 < for 0-100k.
1759 2012-03-20 23:25:45 da2ce7 has quit (2!~da2ce7@gateway/tor-sasl/da2ce7|Remote host closed the connection)
1760 2012-03-20 23:25:46 <sipa> gmaxwell: did you change the flushing frequency?
1761 2012-03-20 23:26:00 <gmaxwell> sipa: this is your branch, plus the dbcache commandline option.
1762 2012-03-20 23:26:07 <sipa> ok
1763 2012-03-20 23:26:17 <gmaxwell> On a 7200 rpm 2tb sata drive.
1764 2012-03-20 23:26:27 <gmaxwell> with disk encryption.
1765 2012-03-20 23:26:40 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1766 2012-03-20 23:26:49 <sipa> i doubt disk encryption matters; filesystem encryption (in userspace) may...
1767 2012-03-20 23:27:08 <gmaxwell> So yea, ... does this cache setting matter at all? looks like 4mb is also going to be fast. I bet anything fast enough to get the first two levels of the btree indexes in ram is ~as fast as larger.
1768 2012-03-20 23:28:17 <sipa> gmaxwell: i don't think any test up to 100k is representational
1769 2012-03-20 23:30:52 <gmaxwell> well, it's still going.
1770 2012-03-20 23:31:53 <sipa> hmm, 160k in 18 minutes
1771 2012-03-20 23:31:58 <sipa> with 25 MiB
1772 2012-03-20 23:32:22 da2ce7 has joined
1773 2012-03-20 23:33:46 <tomoj> hmm "ERROR:root:Couldn't open blkindex.dat/main. Try quitting any running Bitcoin apps."
1774 2012-03-20 23:33:52 <tomoj> from bitcointools
1775 2012-03-20 23:34:26 <tomoj> found the issue
1776 2012-03-20 23:34:50 <tomoj> I mean, the github issue
1777 2012-03-20 23:35:43 <sipa> gmaxwell: btw, this is with 8 GiB RAM, about half of which is used by the OS for caching
1778 2012-03-20 23:36:02 <sipa> so it's quite possible i have the entire block chain database in ram already
1779 2012-03-20 23:36:30 <gmaxwell> sipa: obviously not the one you're writing. :)
1780 2012-03-20 23:37:36 <sipa> gmaxwell: you underestimate the non-causal caching abilities of the linux 3.0 kernel!
1781 2012-03-20 23:43:10 <gmaxwell> 03/20/12 23:19:43 -> 03/20/12 23:42:15 for height=137549
1782 2012-03-20 23:46:01 <rebroad> hi.. I was just reading about the problem with block 74638 and the overflow.... how was this fixed? Was it easy to rewind back one block so that it got regenerated? Why was everyone asked to delete their blk0001.dat files rather than just rewind back to block 74637...?
1783 2012-03-20 23:46:42 <rebroad> is there any value in creating the ability to rewind to block n in the client?
1784 2012-03-20 23:47:43 <rebroad> I presume that if everyone deleted their blk0001.dat then some people must have not done so as surely there'd have been no information of the blocks for the people who'd deleted the block index to redownload the blocks, right?
1785 2012-03-20 23:48:01 <sipa> my client locked up :S
1786 2012-03-20 23:50:42 <sipa> i did a full sync in less than 33 minutes with -dbcache=25, but when it started its normal operation, deadlock
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1789 2012-03-20 23:59:44 <gmaxwell> sipa: okay, yea.. so up to 40 minutes for height=150233 ... perhaps 4mb is too small. :)
1790 2012-03-20 23:59:58 Z0rZ0rZ0r1 has joined