1 2012-03-22 00:00:06 <rebroad> sipa, I was just looking at your checklevel branch.. interesting stuff, although, I was curious to understand why the line "assert(pindexNew->pprev == pindexBest);" got removed.
   2 2012-03-22 00:00:22 Z0rZ0rZ0r1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
   3 2012-03-22 00:02:21 <gmaxwell> rebroad> hmm... my bitcoin client actually seems to download  < not entirely surprising.
   4 2012-03-22 00:02:46 <gmaxwell> rebroad: newer nodes will avoid advertising themselves until they're synced up— which should help that.
   5 2012-03-22 00:05:04 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: sorry, it's still uploading, 1 min
   6 2012-03-22 00:05:25 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: :(
   7 2012-03-22 00:06:05 darkee has quit (!~darkee@gateway/tor-sasl/darkee|Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
   8 2012-03-22 00:06:29 * luke-jr kicks his ISP
   9 2012-03-22 00:06:59 <luke-jr> can't wait till I move and have cable…
  10 2012-03-22 00:13:40 agricocb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  11 2012-03-22 00:14:42 theymos has joined
  12 2012-03-22 00:15:12 <kinlo> mmmz, seems there are still a few open issues for 0.6?
  13 2012-03-22 00:16:28 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: three words: college dorm internet
  14 2012-03-22 00:18:53 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: upload finished
  15 2012-03-22 00:19:00 darkee has joined
  16 2012-03-22 00:19:03 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: college dorm internet was the worst I ever experienced.
  17 2012-03-22 00:19:16 <BlueMatt> god its great here
  18 2012-03-22 00:19:23 <BlueMatt> 75mbps down no problem
  19 2012-03-22 00:19:42 <luke-jr> kinlo: 0.6 is waiting on: 946, 947, 964, and a fix for the IPC hang issue (at least)
  20 2012-03-22 00:19:57 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: sure, but when the entire dorm is trying to pull 10gbps…
  21 2012-03-22 00:20:15 * luke-jr setup a SOCKS proxy on the teachers' network <.<
  22 2012-03-22 00:20:27 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I never see less than like 10mbps down
  23 2012-03-22 00:20:30 <BlueMatt> on a terrible day
  24 2012-03-22 00:20:38 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/bitcoin-qt.exe is ready anyhow
  25 2012-03-22 00:20:54 <BlueMatt> already testing it
  26 2012-03-22 00:21:12 <BlueMatt> looks good afaict
  27 2012-03-22 00:21:35 <BlueMatt> the usual walletlock does nothing, so ack I guess
  28 2012-03-22 00:22:19 <theymos> When should I take down the red warning on the forum about the vulnerability?
  29 2012-03-22 00:24:25 <BlueMatt> in a year
  30 2012-03-22 00:24:35 <egecko> ;;bc,blocks
  31 2012-03-22 00:24:36 <gribble> 172260
  32 2012-03-22 00:24:43 <theymos> :/
  33 2012-03-22 00:24:52 <egecko> under a thousand blocks to go!
  34 2012-03-22 00:25:03 <luke-jr> theymos: when you upgrade from 0.3.15
  35 2012-03-22 00:25:04 * egecko cheers along the little server that could
  36 2012-03-22 00:25:21 <theymos> luke-jr: That might be even longer than a year! :)
  37 2012-03-22 00:25:45 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: Care to ACK cross-gitian build on https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/946
  38 2012-03-22 00:25:47 <luke-jr> ?
  39 2012-03-22 00:26:04 <kinlo> theymos: are you using more then the getblockpatch on your bitcoind?
  40 2012-03-22 00:26:11 <BlueMatt> theymos: wait, you are still mining on nodes based on 0.3.15???
  41 2012-03-22 00:26:33 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: he said nothing about mining :P
  42 2012-03-22 00:26:52 <kinlo> it's blockexplorer that's still on 0.3.15, am I correct? :)
  43 2012-03-22 00:27:03 <doublec> egecko: 1,000 blocks until what?
  44 2012-03-22 00:27:12 <luke-jr> he said everything was 0.5 except his GUI now <.<
  45 2012-03-22 00:27:23 <BlueMatt> ok, so theymos still uses 0.3.15 for his local nodes???why
  46 2012-03-22 00:28:27 <theymos> It's only used for my wallet, and I connect to the network through one of my other nodes. Don't even have it running most of the time.
  47 2012-03-22 00:30:11 <theymos> Initially I didn't upgrade to 0.3.19+ because I was lazy. Then I didn't want to upgrade because I didn't have time to check each addition to the source and didn't want to trust that each one was correct.
  48 2012-03-22 00:30:14 <BlueMatt> still, what about the features of qt?
  49 2012-03-22 00:30:33 <theymos> I don't need any of those features. (And the UI looks horrible.)
  50 2012-03-22 00:30:51 <BlueMatt> ...
  51 2012-03-22 00:30:51 <luke-jr> theymos: I know the solution!
  52 2012-03-22 00:30:59 <luke-jr> you should take 0.4.x and maintain wxBitcoin
  53 2012-03-22 00:31:11 <theymos> I've been thinking about it.
  54 2012-03-22 00:31:16 pebbles has joined
  55 2012-03-22 00:31:34 <theymos> I've barely looked at the GUI code, though.
  56 2012-03-22 00:32:12 <BlueMatt> heh
  57 2012-03-22 00:34:25 <doublec> write a curses inerface :)
  58 2012-03-22 00:34:38 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
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  63 2012-03-22 00:46:19 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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  76 2012-03-22 01:39:20 <egecko> ;;bc,blocks
  77 2012-03-22 01:39:21 <gribble> 172267
  78 2012-03-22 01:39:24 <egecko> W00T!
  79 2012-03-22 01:39:27 <egecko> all caught up!
  80 2012-03-22 01:41:01 dr_nix has joined
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  82 2012-03-22 01:44:29 <gmaxwell> might be prudent to run the new scanning code against the chain at http://us1.bitvps.com/blockchain/
  83 2012-03-22 01:44:58 <luke-jr> How does Windows System Restore (and Mac's equivalent) affect wallet.dat?
  84 2012-03-22 01:45:12 <gmaxwell> probably reverts it to an older state.
  85 2012-03-22 01:45:22 <luke-jr> :x
  86 2012-03-22 01:46:16 <BlueMatt> CBlockStore, as it turns out, does little for download speed due to wallet checking, but the stuff I wrote last night does: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/29653426/times.pdf
  87 2012-03-22 01:47:42 xenland has joined
  88 2012-03-22 01:48:52 <sipa> wth? i import a block file using loadblocks and checkblocks reproducible finds an error
  89 2012-03-22 01:49:23 <sipa> in block 91721
  90 2012-03-22 01:49:31 <BlueMatt> ...?
  91 2012-03-22 01:49:31 Snapman is now known as Snapman[afkers]
  92 2012-03-22 01:49:48 <sipa> wait
  93 2012-03-22 01:49:53 <sipa> duplicate transaction!
  94 2012-03-22 01:50:01 <sipa> that explains
  95 2012-03-22 01:50:18 <luke-jr> O.o
  96 2012-03-22 01:50:27 <SomeoneWeird> huh
  97 2012-03-22 01:50:31 <sipa> it's just my checker that is too strict
  98 2012-03-22 01:50:31 <luke-jr> BIP30 time isn't working?
  99 2012-03-22 01:50:43 <BlueMatt> dup txes used to be allowed
 100 2012-03-22 01:50:46 <gmaxwell> Well the check needs a height gate.
 101 2012-03-22 01:51:00 <sipa> luke-jr: no, it's my checker, see pullreq 972
 102 2012-03-22 01:51:16 <luke-jr> sipa: your checker doesn't use the same code for checking? :/
 103 2012-03-22 01:51:24 <sipa> it cannot
 104 2012-03-22 01:51:38 <sipa> bitcoin has only code for connecting blocks
 105 2012-03-22 01:51:48 <sipa> no code for checking whether connecting was done correctly
 106 2012-03-22 01:58:57 JRWR has quit ()
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 110 2012-03-22 02:05:20 barmstr__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 111 2012-03-22 02:07:24 rebroad has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 112 2012-03-22 02:11:10 <etotheipi_> splatster, torusjkl just posted some updated Armory compile-on-OSX instructions... please try it out
 113 2012-03-22 02:14:53 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
 114 2012-03-22 02:18:26 barmstrong has joined
 115 2012-03-22 02:18:27 MelMan_ has joined
 116 2012-03-22 02:21:43 triptyl has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 117 2012-03-22 02:21:47 JRWR has joined
 118 2012-03-22 02:24:13 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: mind telling me why this is stupid so I dont keep thinking its not: https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/commit/fbe074fbd599cad2467709f4f53ec2a93ad595b7
 119 2012-03-22 02:25:20 <BlueMatt> (aside from making it easy for an attacker to eat 20mb ram instead of 10)
 120 2012-03-22 02:26:49 <BlueMatt> sipa: ^
 121 2012-03-22 02:28:45 <sipa> BlueMatt: i don't think that's stupid; it's pretty idiotic to disconnect someone because *you* are sending him too much
 122 2012-03-22 02:30:00 <BlueMatt> damn, I was hoping I missed something...
 123 2012-03-22 02:30:03 <luke-jr> lol
 124 2012-03-22 02:30:21 <sipa> BlueMatt: maybe you did; what happens the send buffer does become to large?
 125 2012-03-22 02:30:36 <sipa> just not send? how will that ever get resolved?
 126 2012-03-22 02:30:38 <BlueMatt> afaict it cant...
 127 2012-03-22 02:30:50 <BlueMatt> just not send until it times out and disconnects
 128 2012-03-22 02:31:07 <BlueMatt> or send until it shrinks and keep processing
 129 2012-03-22 02:31:35 <sipa> don't send if send buffer too full, is what i read from the code; right?
 130 2012-03-22 02:31:47 <BlueMatt> dont add to send buffer if its too full
 131 2012-03-22 02:31:50 <sipa> ah
 132 2012-03-22 02:32:28 <BlueMatt> actually, dont process messages at all from that node until send buffer shrinks
 133 2012-03-22 02:34:19 <splatster> etotheipi_: Okay, I'll give it a shot.
 134 2012-03-22 02:34:25 <sipa> BlueMatt: the name of the commit is very confusing
 135 2012-03-22 02:34:49 <sipa> i'd call it "stop processing received messages while send buffer is full"
 136 2012-03-22 02:34:59 twobitcoins_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 137 2012-03-22 02:35:17 <BlueMatt> I usually write useful commitmsgs then remove words until it fits, so they sometimes get confusing...Ill reword, fix and pull request...
 138 2012-03-22 02:35:38 <splatster> etotheipi_: FYI, I'm on OS X 10.7, but I'll give it a shot.
 139 2012-03-22 02:35:40 <sipa> apart from that, not really an objection (though i'd need to look at it while awake)
 140 2012-03-22 02:35:46 twobitcoins_ has joined
 141 2012-03-22 02:36:02 <BlueMatt> heh, alright, well its based on cblockstore and since I dont feel like redoing it for master, it will wait for 0.7 anyway
 142 2012-03-22 02:37:20 erle- has quit (Quit: erle-)
 143 2012-03-22 02:39:22 triptyl has joined
 144 2012-03-22 02:40:28 <BlueMatt> well, damn: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/973
 145 2012-03-22 02:43:18 <luke-jr> 8b7d066	REMOVE BEFORE MERGE
 146 2012-03-22 02:43:44 <BlueMatt> thats because its in cblockstore, after that it will get removed
 147 2012-03-22 02:43:52 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: TheBlueMatt opened pull request 973 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/973>
 148 2012-03-22 02:43:55 <BlueMatt> well, maybe I should go ahead and pull that from cblockstore now...
 149 2012-03-22 02:44:19 <luke-jr> This regression also doesn't belong in it: e966607	Clean up getmininginfo's API.
 150 2012-03-22 02:44:28 <BlueMatt> how is that a regression?
 151 2012-03-22 02:44:35 <luke-jr> removes currentblocktx
 152 2012-03-22 02:44:38 <BlueMatt> it doesnt change the rpc-facing stuff
 153 2012-03-22 02:44:40 <BlueMatt> no it doesnt
 154 2012-03-22 02:44:51 <luke-jr> oh, I see it inside the CRITBLK
 155 2012-03-22 02:44:58 <BlueMatt> changes the order, yea
 156 2012-03-22 02:44:59 <luke-jr> nm
 157 2012-03-22 02:45:03 <luke-jr> still, not part of CBS
 158 2012-03-22 02:45:07 <BlueMatt> yes it is
 159 2012-03-22 02:45:11 <luke-jr> ?
 160 2012-03-22 02:45:24 <BlueMatt> the goal of cblockstore is to clean up apis to blockstore, that is a part of that
 161 2012-03-22 02:45:29 <luke-jr> o
 162 2012-03-22 02:45:49 Jamesz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 163 2012-03-22 02:46:44 <BlueMatt> alright remove "REMOVE BEFORE MERGE" from a few branches
 164 2012-03-22 02:47:09 pingdrive has joined
 165 2012-03-22 02:47:24 <luke-jr> is anyone working on the IPC bug?
 166 2012-03-22 02:47:28 <BlueMatt> s/remove/removed/
 167 2012-03-22 02:47:31 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: not afaik
 168 2012-03-22 02:47:35 <luke-jr> XD
 169 2012-03-22 02:47:53 * BlueMatt was going to at some point in the next couple days if no one else did...
 170 2012-03-22 02:49:21 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: have you ever reproduced it?
 171 2012-03-22 02:49:28 <luke-jr> no, isn't it Windows only?
 172 2012-03-22 02:49:31 <BlueMatt> yea
 173 2012-03-22 02:49:38 <BlueMatt> were you about to go work on it?
 174 2012-03-22 02:49:46 <BlueMatt> I thought you didnt do dev work on win64?
 175 2012-03-22 02:49:51 <luke-jr> I don't.
 176 2012-03-22 02:50:07 <BlueMatt> ah,well then Ill go see if I can reproduce it...
 177 2012-03-22 02:50:15 <luke-jr> it's semi-annoying, but it's not connected to tonal in any way, so I can't really justify spending time on it <.<
 178 2012-03-22 02:50:24 <BlueMatt> heh
 179 2012-03-22 02:50:26 eoss has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 180 2012-03-22 02:50:36 <BlueMatt> well it does block 0.6, so...
 181 2012-03-22 02:50:46 <BlueMatt> maybe Ill just replace boost with qt ipc
 182 2012-03-22 02:50:51 <luke-jr> <.<
 183 2012-03-22 02:51:07 <luke-jr> it would be ironic if you did, and then found out Qt wraps boost…
 184 2012-03-22 02:51:12 xenland has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 185 2012-03-22 02:51:16 <BlueMatt> heh, I wouldnt be surprised
 186 2012-03-22 02:51:22 MelMan_ has left ()
 187 2012-03-22 02:51:24 <BlueMatt> but hey, if they work around boost bugs for us, why not?
 188 2012-03-22 02:51:34 tomoj has joined
 189 2012-03-22 02:51:39 <luke-jr> well, you'd only find out if it had the same bug :p
 190 2012-03-22 02:51:45 <BlueMatt> heh, well ok
 191 2012-03-22 02:51:52 * luke-jr isn't convinced it's a boost bug yet, either.
 192 2012-03-22 02:51:59 <BlueMatt> may not be
 193 2012-03-22 02:52:42 <splatster> etotheipi_: Unfortunately, it didn't work :/ I can put some time into making it work in Lion (and maybe make a binary), but right now my upcoming GLBSE venture is my top priority.
 194 2012-03-22 02:55:54 <BlueMatt> why the hell is oom-killer getting invoked with 3g of memory dedicated to cache???
 195 2012-03-22 02:56:00 <BlueMatt> s/3g/4g/
 196 2012-03-22 02:56:52 Lexa has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 197 2012-03-22 02:58:35 <BlueMatt> goddamit kernel, stop killing chrome...
 198 2012-03-22 02:59:08 <SomeoneWeird> lol
 199 2012-03-22 02:59:15 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: something mmap()ed?
 200 2012-03-22 02:59:38 <jrmithdobbs> shows up as cache on linux even if actually mapped to real mem iirc
 201 2012-03-22 02:59:52 <BlueMatt> maybe virtualbox is doing that...I dunno whatever
 202 2012-03-22 03:01:25 SuprTiggr has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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 204 2012-03-22 03:09:24 SuprTiggr has joined
 205 2012-03-22 03:11:05 da2ce7 has joined
 206 2012-03-22 03:12:23 finway has joined
 207 2012-03-22 03:12:32 <finway> ping gmaxwell
 208 2012-03-22 03:12:38 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 209 2012-03-22 03:12:40 <finway> ;;ping gmaxwell
 210 2012-03-22 03:12:40 <gribble> pong
 211 2012-03-22 03:14:25 <gmaxwell> Yes?
 212 2012-03-22 03:14:28 SuprTiggr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 213 2012-03-22 03:16:34 sytse has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 214 2012-03-22 03:16:37 <finway> gmaxwell, i am restarting downloading the blockchain using 0.6.0rc4
 215 2012-03-22 03:17:18 <finway> What are the client doing if the CPU usage is 1%, and not downloading the blocks, and the hardisk did not work too.
 216 2012-03-22 03:17:30 <finway> no cpu, no network, no harddisk
 217 2012-03-22 03:18:01 <gmaxwell> finway: It's busying doing synchronous writes. It actually is IO, but it's not always (or obviously) reported as such.
 218 2012-03-22 03:18:09 <finway> every 500 blocks, there's a stop with no cpu working, no network working, no harddisk working.
 219 2012-03-22 03:18:11 <gmaxwell> (mostly spending time for the disk to cycle around)
 220 2012-03-22 03:18:19 <gmaxwell> finway: thats the database sync.
 221 2012-03-22 03:18:34 minimoose has joined
 222 2012-03-22 03:18:41 da2ce7 has joined
 223 2012-03-22 03:19:14 <gmaxwell> finway: take this pull and it will sync fairly fast: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/964
 224 2012-03-22 03:19:15 <finway> gmaxwell, so that's why blk0001.dat in ramdisk much faster ?
 225 2012-03-22 03:19:24 JRWR has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 226 2012-03-22 03:19:41 <luke-jr> #964 is part of next-test, if you need Windows build
 227 2012-03-22 03:19:55 <luke-jr> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=70580.0
 228 2012-03-22 03:20:20 <finway> gmaxwell, luke-jr, hah, that's awesome, thanks.
 229 2012-03-22 03:20:31 SuprTiggr has joined
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 231 2012-03-22 03:21:05 da2ce7 has quit (2!~da2ce7@gateway/tor-sasl/da2ce7|Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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 235 2012-03-22 03:22:13 <finway> I did a full block load (from a local file, using the loadblocks patch) on my laptop with these settings in 33 minutes.  -- really? in 33min ? that's super fast.
 236 2012-03-22 03:22:38 sytse has joined
 237 2012-03-22 03:25:29 <gmaxwell> finway: it's the same kind of performance we've long been getting on ramdisks.
 238 2012-03-22 03:25:56 <finway> Oh, never tried ramdisk
 239 2012-03-22 03:26:33 <finway> luke-jr, seems your site has been blocked by Chinese Great FireWall.
 240 2012-03-22 03:26:39 <luke-jr> finway: lol?
 241 2012-03-22 03:26:51 <finway> yeah
 242 2012-03-22 03:27:27 <luke-jr> why are you in China?
 243 2012-03-22 03:28:25 <finway> luke-jr :(
 244 2012-03-22 03:28:56 <luke-jr> finway: you live in China?
 245 2012-03-22 03:29:31 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: ... no. Nevada but china provides his internet filtering.
 246 2012-03-22 03:29:58 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: how does that work?
 247 2012-03-22 03:30:17 <luke-jr> actually, maybe it's just because I block China from my VPS
 248 2012-03-22 03:30:29 <luke-jr> too many botnets there like to DDoS me
 249 2012-03-22 03:30:29 <JFK911> i knew he was a racist!!
 250 2012-03-22 03:31:39 <luke-jr> finway: what IP, and I can let you through it
 251 2012-03-22 03:31:54 <finway> luke-jr, nvm, i got it.
 252 2012-03-22 03:31:57 <luke-jr> k
 253 2012-03-22 03:32:11 <luke-jr> 1131K  149M DROP       all  --  *      *       0.0.0.0/0            0.0.0.0/0           set HongKong src
 254 2012-03-22 03:32:12 winterblack has joined
 255 2012-03-22 03:32:12 <luke-jr>   20M 2199M DROP       all  --  *      *       0.0.0.0/0            0.0.0.0/0           set China src
 256 2012-03-22 03:33:24 winterblack_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 257 2012-03-22 03:33:26 <finway> OK, there's less sotp time every 500 blocks.
 258 2012-03-22 03:34:48 <finway> And the cpu usage are always high, efficient
 259 2012-03-22 03:35:16 Cablesaurus has joined
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 261 2012-03-22 03:35:16 Cablesaurus has joined
 262 2012-03-22 03:36:43 <sipa> BlueMatt: small bug; if a key entry comes before the minversion entry in a wallet file, and you downgrade to 0.5 with compressed pubkeys, it will give a wallet corrupt error rather than a upgrade required error
 263 2012-03-22 03:36:51 <sipa> minversion should be checked first
 264 2012-03-22 03:36:55 <sipa> and ignored in the main loop
 265 2012-03-22 03:37:01 JRWR has joined
 266 2012-03-22 03:37:48 <BlueMatt> sipa: how did you get a minversion entry after a key?
 267 2012-03-22 03:38:11 <sipa> BlueMatt: i doubt you get them in order they are written
 268 2012-03-22 03:38:11 <BlueMatt> sipa: Im asuming in any reasonable encryption process doesnt do that? (or we would have seen it more often?
 269 2012-03-22 03:38:37 <BlueMatt> hmm, odd
 270 2012-03-22 03:39:06 <sipa> BlueMatt: it's because luke backported my key checking to 0.5
 271 2012-03-22 03:40:23 <BlueMatt> oh
 272 2012-03-22 03:40:43 <BlueMatt> does the same occur in 0.6?
 273 2012-03-22 03:41:05 <sipa> no, because 0.6 supports compressed pubkeys
 274 2012-03-22 03:41:14 <BlueMatt> (for 0.7-min wallets
 275 2012-03-22 03:41:15 <BlueMatt> )
 276 2012-03-22 03:41:44 <luke-jr> did I oops?
 277 2012-03-22 03:41:50 <sipa> luke-jr: no, not your fault
 278 2012-03-22 03:42:00 <BlueMatt> wait, why does this not work?
 279 2012-03-22 03:42:07 <BlueMatt> it should return DB_TOO_NEW fine...?
 280 2012-03-22 03:42:23 <sipa> BlueMatt: make a wallet in 0.6; it writes compressed pubkeys and puts minversion 59900
 281 2012-03-22 03:42:27 <sipa> downgrade to 0.5
 282 2012-03-22 03:42:27 <finway> I don't think i'll download the full blockchain in 30 minutes...
 283 2012-03-22 03:42:40 <luke-jr> finway: he didn't say download
 284 2012-03-22 03:42:42 <luke-jr> finway: he said load
 285 2012-03-22 03:42:49 <sipa> if the compressed key is loaded first (which is invalid according to 0.5.3.x) it will return corrupt db
 286 2012-03-22 03:43:00 <sipa> if the minversion entry is loaded first it will return db too new
 287 2012-03-22 03:43:09 <finway> luke-jr, what's the previous score ?
 288 2012-03-22 03:43:22 <BlueMatt> ahh, ok ofc
 289 2012-03-22 03:43:50 <sipa> i'd fix this in 0.6, except the problem cannot occur in 0.6 (but maybe useful for future upgrades)
 290 2012-03-22 03:44:13 <sipa> for the backports it's necessary though
 291 2012-03-22 03:44:13 <luke-jr> >_<
 292 2012-03-22 03:44:27 <BlueMatt> ahh
 293 2012-03-22 03:44:58 <sipa> so with the policy that only mainline patches end up in backports, we're forced to fix it in a version where the problem doesn't exist
 294 2012-03-22 03:45:11 triptyl has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 295 2012-03-22 03:45:15 <sipa> (though it's a code improvement anyway(
 296 2012-03-22 03:46:26 <finway> luke-jr, network is not the bottleneck of blockchain downloading ,right ?
 297 2012-03-22 03:46:34 <luke-jr> finway: it might be now?
 298 2012-03-22 03:46:51 <gmaxwell> finway: usually not, but with the fixes in it can be if your have a slow network or unlucky peers.
 299 2012-03-22 03:47:17 <sipa> unlocky first connections, mostly
 300 2012-03-22 03:47:21 <sipa> lucky
 301 2012-03-22 03:47:24 <finway> luke-jr, gmaxwell, got it, i'll report my full blockchain downloading time.
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 305 2012-03-22 03:55:35 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sipa opened pull request 974 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/974>
 306 2012-03-22 03:56:07 finway has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 307 2012-03-22 04:03:08 <splatster> What is the best way to run a "company" wallet separate from my personal wallet?
 308 2012-03-22 04:03:23 <luke-jr> another user?
 309 2012-03-22 04:03:28 imsaguy is now known as sticking_balls
 310 2012-03-22 04:03:34 sticking_balls is now known as imsaguy
 311 2012-03-22 04:04:31 <splatster> luke-jr: Logging in and out might become tedious but that's better than nothing.
 312 2012-03-22 04:04:56 <luke-jr> splatster: ssh?
 313 2012-03-22 04:05:13 <luke-jr> there's a -datadir cmdline option too I think
 314 2012-03-22 04:05:49 <splatster> ok
 315 2012-03-22 04:06:15 dr_nix has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 316 2012-03-22 04:09:04 TiggrBot has joined
 317 2012-03-22 04:09:41 <egecko> The news is out!  BitDozer is almost here! http://bit.ly/GIHz7r #bitcoin #ows #anonymous #occupywallstreet
 318 2012-03-22 04:09:49 <splatster> wait, couldn't I set the data directory to a mounted volume?
 319 2012-03-22 04:10:24 <splatster> luke-jr: ^
 320 2012-03-22 04:10:32 <luke-jr> egecko: who uses Windows Phone
 321 2012-03-22 04:10:36 <luke-jr> splatster: maybe
 322 2012-03-22 04:10:46 <splatster> luke-jr: No one uses windows phone.
 323 2012-03-22 04:10:47 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sipa opened pull request 975 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/975>
 324 2012-03-22 04:12:04 <splatster> luke-jr: And I could have (for example) an encrypted volume on a USB drive and then I could use it on any of my comps as long as I had -qt on it.
 325 2012-03-22 04:12:32 <luke-jr> splatster: if it were the same version
 326 2012-03-22 04:12:37 <splatster> yup
 327 2012-03-22 04:12:38 <luke-jr> splatster: could probably put the client on the USB too
 328 2012-03-22 04:13:18 dr_nix has joined
 329 2012-03-22 04:13:24 <splatster> And as long as I had appropriate builds for each OS, I could use it on any computer I know is secure.
 330 2012-03-22 04:14:01 <splatster> Thanks, luke-jr! Now I have a way to keep the fund's capital safe and separate from my shit.
 331 2012-03-22 04:14:47 <luke-jr> np
 332 2012-03-22 04:15:44 <splatster> of course, I would make a backup or two of the wallet, God forbid I lose the USB.
 333 2012-03-22 04:24:29 Neskia has joined
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 335 2012-03-22 04:32:38 finway has joined
 336 2012-03-22 04:34:10 <finway> now, the bottleneck is networking.
 337 2012-03-22 04:35:06 <finway> i've been stuck at 117965 for 2 min
 338 2012-03-22 04:36:20 <finway> i restart the client, and it pass
 339 2012-03-22 04:36:47 k9quaint has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 340 2012-03-22 04:41:54 <finway> One hour passed, and i've got 120k blocks
 341 2012-03-22 04:42:27 <finway> restarted 2 times.
 342 2012-03-22 04:43:02 <gmaxwell> You should probably stop restarting.
 343 2012-03-22 04:44:34 <finway> gmaxwell, why ?
 344 2012-03-22 04:45:08 <finway> close&restar the client helps
 345 2012-03-22 04:45:20 <captain^k> it shouldn't
 346 2012-03-22 04:45:32 <captain^k> maybe you are low on resources?
 347 2012-03-22 04:45:48 <captain^k> *system
 348 2012-03-22 04:45:56 <finway> captain^k  , yes , i am behind LAN,   only 8 connections.
 349 2012-03-22 04:47:40 <finway> I'm exicted about this patch. :)
 350 2012-03-22 04:48:54 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
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 353 2012-03-22 04:58:06 * BlueMatt is happy jgarzik showed up again recently...
 354 2012-03-22 05:03:10 zeiris has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 355 2012-03-22 05:03:35 <nanotube> he did?
 356 2012-03-22 05:05:52 skeledrew has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 357 2012-03-22 05:09:08 k9quaint has joined
 358 2012-03-22 05:14:55 <sipa> he
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 360 2012-03-22 05:18:51 <BlueMatt> he posted a couple of acks
 361 2012-03-22 05:18:55 <BlueMatt> not on irc...
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 369 2012-03-22 05:49:15 <nanotube> ah ic
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 386 2012-03-22 07:42:39 <bitcoinspot> any people from the netherlands here ?
 387 2012-03-22 07:46:06 <neofutur> if its to buy bitcoins better ask on #bitcoin-otc
 388 2012-03-22 07:51:07 <Graet> sturles, is if he's awake bitcoinspot
 389 2012-03-22 07:52:40 larsivi has joined
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 391 2012-03-22 07:59:38 <Habbie> bitcoinspot, sure
 392 2012-03-22 07:59:45 <Habbie> bitcoinspot, why?
 393 2012-03-22 08:01:38 gjs278 has joined
 394 2012-03-22 08:02:15 fiddur has joined
 395 2012-03-22 08:02:27 <bitcoinspot> @Habbie - i am running a dutch bitcoin site http://www.bitcoinspot.nl and am curious to find other bitcoin enthousiasts in holland, they seem a little scarce
 396 2012-03-22 08:03:13 <Habbie> looking good
 397 2012-03-22 08:04:36 cdecker has joined
 398 2012-03-22 08:08:42 <bitcoinspot> habbie: yeah, a ashame that the dutch-speaking audience is a little small :)
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 421 2012-03-22 09:09:37 <sturles> Graet: I'm from .no, not .nl. :-)
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 426 2012-03-22 09:15:47 <vegard> sipa I think is, though?
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 439 2012-03-22 09:57:19 <Graet> oh, my bad, sorry sturles
 440 2012-03-22 10:01:46 rebroad has joined
 441 2012-03-22 10:01:52 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 442 2012-03-22 10:02:24 <rebroad> sipa, did you say your checker (pull 972) is too strict...?
 443 2012-03-22 10:03:32 <rebroad> is it possible to have two log files? one for more verbose debugging and one for the non-looping stuff?
 444 2012-03-22 10:06:59 rodrigorcm has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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 455 2012-03-22 10:39:32 chloa has joined
 456 2012-03-22 10:40:04 <chloa> I need to know how to sort out a stuck transaction to my bitcoin waller
 457 2012-03-22 10:40:19 datagutt has joined
 458 2012-03-22 10:40:32 <chloa> Your client is stuck.
 459 2012-03-22 10:40:51 <chloa> how do i get my client unstuck?
 460 2012-03-22 10:41:21 g2x3k has joined
 461 2012-03-22 10:41:22 <chloa> i transfered bitcoins from intersango to my bitcoin wallet and it appears it has got stuck and i have to start again. can anyone help?
 462 2012-03-22 10:43:26 chloa has left ()
 463 2012-03-22 10:44:10 chloa has joined
 464 2012-03-22 10:44:26 <chloa> Can somebody help me which a question?
 465 2012-03-22 10:44:27 <freewil> chloa, what do you mean stuck
 466 2012-03-22 10:44:49 <chloa> The guy who is providing help has said my client is stuck
 467 2012-03-22 10:45:10 <chloa> the transaction never reached my bitcoin wallet as it normally does and this was 1 month ago
 468 2012-03-22 10:45:16 <freewil> stuck downloading blocks?
 469 2012-03-22 10:45:21 <freewil> what version are you running?
 470 2012-03-22 10:45:35 <freewil> you should be using 0.5.3
 471 2012-03-22 10:45:39 <chloa> You'll probably want to erase your current blockchain and start from the beginning. - the guy said this
 472 2012-03-22 10:45:39 <freewil> or 0.5.3.1 on windows
 473 2012-03-22 10:45:52 <chloa> im not too sure, i will need to check later...
 474 2012-03-22 10:46:13 <chloa> yes i assume stuck downloading blocks
 475 2012-03-22 10:46:47 <freewil> yeah you should downloaded the latest version of the bitcoin client first
 476 2012-03-22 10:46:58 <freewil> then you can restart the blockchain download if you need to
 477 2012-03-22 10:47:30 <chloa> will it still remember my transaction if i download the new one?
 478 2012-03-22 10:47:43 <chloa> what is the latest version and how do i get it?
 479 2012-03-22 10:47:59 <freewil> id make sure bitcoin is closed
 480 2012-03-22 10:48:08 <freewil> make a backup of your wallet.dat just to be safe
 481 2012-03-22 10:48:22 <freewil> http://bitcoin.org/
 482 2012-03-22 10:48:43 <chloa> how do i do this?
 483 2012-03-22 10:48:55 <freewil> are you on windows?
 484 2012-03-22 10:48:59 <chloa> yep
 485 2012-03-22 10:49:42 <chloa> how would i make a back up of my wallet? will i have to de install bitcoin then reinstall?
 486 2012-03-22 10:50:10 <freewil> just close bitcoin for now
 487 2012-03-22 10:50:21 <freewil> then you need to figure out where your wallet.dat file is stored
 488 2012-03-22 10:50:28 <freewil> C:\Documents and Settings\YourUserName\Application data\Bitcoin (XP)
 489 2012-03-22 10:50:33 <freewil> C:\Users\YourUserName\Appdata\Roaming\Bitcoin (Vista and 7)
 490 2012-03-22 10:50:40 <freewil> make a copy of that once you find it
 491 2012-03-22 10:51:33 <chloa> ok, copy it to another folder?
 492 2012-03-22 10:51:49 <freewil> yeah stick it in your my documents or somethin
 493 2012-03-22 10:51:52 <chloa> so once i have the new bitcoin downloaded it should start working again
 494 2012-03-22 10:52:03 <freewil> yeah it should
 495 2012-03-22 10:52:04 <chloa> thanks for helping
 496 2012-03-22 10:52:09 <freewil> this is just a precaution
 497 2012-03-22 10:52:30 <chloa> so blockchain will update and the 14 bitcoins should flow thru? they are just currently stuck at moment right?
 498 2012-03-22 10:53:21 graingert has joined
 499 2012-03-22 10:53:28 <freewil> yeah hopefully
 500 2012-03-22 10:53:39 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 501 2012-03-22 10:53:46 <freewil> if not you can close bitcoin
 502 2012-03-22 10:53:57 <freewil> and delete the blk*.dat files
 503 2012-03-22 10:54:08 <freewil> and reopen and it should restart the download
 504 2012-03-22 10:54:25 <chloa> many thankssss
 505 2012-03-22 10:54:48 MobiusL has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 506 2012-03-22 10:54:54 <freewil> no problem
 507 2012-03-22 10:55:32 gjs278 has joined
 508 2012-03-22 10:55:38 <chloa> i hope it works,
 509 2012-03-22 10:55:47 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 510 2012-03-22 10:56:08 <chloa> so guessing bitcoin needs to be downloaded frequently?
 511 2012-03-22 10:56:31 <freewil> the longer you go between block downloads the longer it'll take to update
 512 2012-03-22 10:57:05 <chloa> i see.
 513 2012-03-22 10:57:20 <chloa> where do you buy bitcoins and do u transfer them to bitcoin walet?
 514 2012-03-22 10:57:48 gjs278 has joined
 515 2012-03-22 10:57:57 <freewil> well you can buy them off someone
 516 2012-03-22 10:58:05 <freewil> looks like you already found where to buy them
 517 2012-03-22 10:58:13 <freewil> i mine them
 518 2012-03-22 10:58:54 <chloa> whats mine? sorry im new to this and eager to learn
 519 2012-03-22 10:59:31 <freewil> thats where you use most commonly a gpu to try to find the hash to solve a block
 520 2012-03-22 10:59:39 <freewil> if you solve a block you get bitcoins
 521 2012-03-22 10:59:56 <chloa> ahh ok.
 522 2012-03-22 11:00:03 <freewil> the chances of solving a block is like playing the lottery though
 523 2012-03-22 11:00:11 <chloa> where can i find a list of legitimate people selling bitcoins?
 524 2012-03-22 11:00:28 <freewil> so you can join a pool and get fractions of coins for contributing gpu power
 525 2012-03-22 11:00:29 <chloa> so people pay you to solve their blocks?
 526 2012-03-22 11:00:39 <freewil> yeah pretty much
 527 2012-03-22 11:00:50 <freewil> chloa, try #bitcoin-otc
 528 2012-03-22 11:01:27 <t7> mtgox
 529 2012-03-22 11:01:48 <freewil> thats another exchange like intersango
 530 2012-03-22 11:03:16 <chloa> cool, thanks
 531 2012-03-22 11:03:31 <chloa> intersango was free now its charging
 532 2012-03-22 11:05:24 <freewil> if you want to learn more there is a lot of useful info on the wiki https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Main_Page
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 539 2012-03-22 11:32:41 <sipa> vegard: it's.fixed now
 540 2012-03-22 11:40:15 underscor has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 541 2012-03-22 11:44:59 <rebroad> is it possible to make bitcoin report on what it's waiting for when the best block is still way behind the latest block? e.g. whether it's still calculating, or whether it's waiting to see a block on the network as a certain specification?
 542 2012-03-22 11:45:12 <rebroad> *of
 543 2012-03-22 11:48:44 <sturles> rebroad: tail -f ~/.bitcoin/debug.log
 544 2012-03-22 11:53:35 <rebroad> sturles, I always do that.. but it's certainly not clear from the log, at least to me anyway
 545 2012-03-22 11:54:05 <rebroad> Do these mean anything? :- ERROR: FetchInputs() : 110f7bfcb2 mapTransactions prev not found a54b61c111
 546 2012-03-22 11:54:06 <rebroad> ERROR: AcceptToMemoryPool() : FetchInputs failed 110f7bfcb2
 547 2012-03-22 11:54:50 <sturles> It is never waiting to see a block.  It either has it, downloads the block from someone announcing it, or it don't know about it.
 548 2012-03-22 11:54:58 <rebroad> and I'm also getting "ProcessMessage(alert, 192 bytes) FAILED"
 549 2012-03-22 11:55:20 <rebroad> sturles, can it request this block from other nodes?
 550 2012-03-22 11:55:25 lianj has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 551 2012-03-22 11:55:50 <sturles> This is a transaction where the inputs are unknown.  Your client is probably still downloading blocks or stuck.  What is your current block?
 552 2012-03-22 11:55:51 <sipa> yes it can, and it does
 553 2012-03-22 11:56:09 <rebroad> 134299
 554 2012-03-22 11:56:14 <sipa> actually, blocks are never sent without one requesting them
 555 2012-03-22 11:56:41 <sturles> ;;bc,block
 556 2012-03-22 11:56:41 <gribble> Error: "bc,block" is not a valid command.
 557 2012-03-22 11:56:43 <sturles> ;;bc,blocks
 558 2012-03-22 11:56:45 <gribble> 172340
 559 2012-03-22 11:57:06 <sturles> ^ this is the current block.  Your client is either downloading blocks or stuck.
 560 2012-03-22 11:57:14 <sipa> rebroad: you'll see "askfor block" in the log
 561 2012-03-22 11:57:19 <sipa> when it requests blocks
 562 2012-03-22 11:57:52 <rebroad> sipa, why isn't it requesting blocks then?
 563 2012-03-22 11:58:12 <rebroad> there are no "askfor block"s since the last best block
 564 2012-03-22 11:58:21 <sturles> Does it say "REORGANIZE" anywhere?
 565 2012-03-22 11:58:31 <rebroad> sturles, no
 566 2012-03-22 11:59:52 <sturles> Still at 134299
 567 2012-03-22 11:59:53 <sturles> ?
 568 2012-03-22 12:00:34 <rebroad> sturles, I've currently quit bitcoin-qt, but my main question was - what is it waiting for...? it's clearly not waiting for a block as it's not asked for it, so how do I tell what it is doing?
 569 2012-03-22 12:01:13 <sturles> By reading debug.log or checking the status messages.
 570 2012-03-22 12:01:41 <sturles> Since you qiut, it isn't doing anything right now. :-)
 571 2012-03-22 12:02:03 <sipa> rebroad: it is not "waiting"; the bitcoin protocol is asynchronous, it just exchanges messags under specific conditions
 572 2012-03-22 12:02:09 <rebroad> can it be made more user friendly by actually having a message somewhere to say "I'm now waiting for ....."
 573 2012-03-22 12:02:37 <sipa> rebroad: does quitting and reopening work?
 574 2012-03-22 12:02:38 <sturles> As sipa just wrote -- it isn't waiting.
 575 2012-03-22 12:02:39 <rebroad> sipa, maybe a better quesiton I can ask is: what does it need to do before it asks for a block?
 576 2012-03-22 12:02:48 <sipa> it needs to know it exists
 577 2012-03-22 12:02:59 _W_ has quit (Excess Flood)
 578 2012-03-22 12:03:03 <sipa> and for that, it needs to be told so
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 580 2012-03-22 12:03:13 <sipa> it can however ask from another node which blocks it does know about
 581 2012-03-22 12:03:18 <rebroad> ah.. ok.. now I'm geting somewhere... (with my understanding)... how does it find out it exists?
 582 2012-03-22 12:03:37 <sipa> every new blocks' announcement is forwarded
 583 2012-03-22 12:03:42 <sturles> It's peers tells it about it.
 584 2012-03-22 12:03:57 <sturles> It should be connected to at least 8 other nodes.
 585 2012-03-22 12:04:11 <rebroad> ok, but assuming I'm at block 134299, which is quite old... surely I should be able to ask "which block comes after block 143299"? no?
 586 2012-03-22 12:04:20 <sipa> it did
 587 2012-03-22 12:04:48 <sipa> but again: does quit/reopen help?
 588 2012-03-22 12:05:16 <rebroad> ok, so shall I assume no node has answered?.. ah.. I can restart it, but I'm mostly wanting to understand how it works rather than troubleshoot it
 589 2012-03-22 12:06:20 <rebroad> having seen it take close to 1 week so far to download the block chain, I am naturally keen to see this improved, and so am wanting to find the causes for the delays in getting up to date
 590 2012-03-22 12:06:25 <sipa> it will eventually re-request blocks, but if the normal process gets disturbed it may taker some time
 591 2012-03-22 12:09:19 <sipa> there are several improvements possible here
 592 2012-03-22 12:09:53 <sipa> and now that we've managed to speed up the indexing/verifying part of chain downloading, the network will likely become the bottleneck on many systems
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 596 2012-03-22 12:15:33 <rebroad> sipa, hmmm... so what are the possible explanations? 1) a bug? 2) there are no nodes connected that know the next block after 134299 (unlikely?)  3) network bandwidth saturated (no, I think not), 4) cpu saturated (no also)... 5) ?
 597 2012-03-22 12:15:55 <rebroad> I think it must be 1 or 5... right?
 598 2012-03-22 12:19:38 <sturles> I/O is usually the bottleneck when you have come that far in downloading the blockchain.  Is your disk very slow?
 599 2012-03-22 12:19:43 <rebroad> is it possible to view the current things askedfor, and when they were last requested?
 600 2012-03-22 12:20:00 <sturles> Yes, in debug.log.
 601 2012-03-22 12:20:03 <rebroad> sturles, what sort of disk I/O would it be doing?
 602 2012-03-22 12:20:13 <sturles> Check db.log as well for database errors.
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 604 2012-03-22 12:20:20 <rebroad> sturles, how do i see the time they were askedfor?
 605 2012-03-22 12:20:39 <rebroad> db.log is zero bytes in size
 606 2012-03-22 12:20:49 <sturles> You can't unless you tail it through a script which adds timestamps.
 607 2012-03-22 12:20:55 minimoose has joined
 608 2012-03-22 12:21:08 <rebroad> sturles, ah... that would be useful..
 609 2012-03-22 12:21:37 <sturles> It reads and writes the blockchain, sorting out transactions to make sure it has got everythin right.
 610 2012-03-22 12:22:20 <rebroad> what would be great would be a little window showing activity, like top, with a timestamp next to each thing
 611 2012-03-22 12:22:45 <rebroad> so i can see what has been askedfor and when, and what it's currently doing.. e.g. calculations, etc
 612 2012-03-22 12:25:49 <rebroad> I'm looking at util.cpp, it has one line that says "static FILE* fileout = NULL;", and then the next line says "if (!fileout)"!!! Why would it not be NULL?
 613 2012-03-22 12:28:52 <rebroad> sturles, no need for a script.. ./bitcoin-qt -logtimestamps
 614 2012-03-22 12:31:08 <rebroad> it would be nice if bitcoin could query environment variables instead of needing command line flags. e.g having BITCOIN_LOGTIMESTAMPS=TRUE would work also..
 615 2012-03-22 12:31:38 <sturles> It has a configuration file.
 616 2012-03-22 12:31:42 <rebroad> or a .bitcoinrc file, etc..
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 618 2012-03-22 12:31:57 <sturles> .bitcoin/bitcoin.conf
 619 2012-03-22 12:33:16 <rebroad> ah... yes.. thanks, sturles
 620 2012-03-22 12:33:34 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 621 2012-03-22 12:38:35 <rebroad> this is weird... why is it that when bitcoin-qt exit, my chrome window restores?!
 622 2012-03-22 12:39:52 graingert has joined
 623 2012-03-22 12:42:32 <sipa> did anyone ever know about the existance of -loadblockindextest ?
 624 2012-03-22 12:42:48 <sipa> it seems pointless, as -printblockindex does the same
 625 2012-03-22 12:43:01 user has joined
 626 2012-03-22 12:43:41 <rebroad> sipa, I don't think those flags are mentioned when doing a bitcoin-qt -help
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 628 2012-03-22 12:48:14 <rebroad> is it possible for an ISP, armed with the private key of a bitcoin wallet, to make the nodes of their ISP customers see a transaction from that wallet when the rest of the internet doesn't?
 629 2012-03-22 12:49:41 TD has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 630 2012-03-22 12:50:23 <sipa> everyone sees all transactions
 631 2012-03-22 12:51:37 TD has joined
 632 2012-03-22 12:51:39 <rebroad> sipa, in my example, the ISP has isolated their customers from the rest of the internet, so..
 633 2012-03-22 12:52:04 <rebroad> sipa, or perhaps in a limited way... so that they can attack their customers who use bitcoin..
 634 2012-03-22 12:52:08 <riush> in theory the isp could intercept the data and forward it only to its own customers
 635 2012-03-22 12:53:02 <rebroad> could they generate blocks that only their customers would see? or would the difficulty still be as difficult as if their customers' nodes were connected to the rest of the internet?
 636 2012-03-22 12:54:26 <riush> basically you mean 'can an isp own its bitcoin users'? - afais yes.
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 638 2012-03-22 12:54:52 <riush> at first, they would have to generate block just as hard as everyone else.. but if they isolated you from the network for the time it takes difficulty to go down, it becomes easier
 639 2012-03-22 12:55:15 agricocb has joined
 640 2012-03-22 12:55:19 <riush> but likely people would notice quickly and i doubt an isp would do that
 641 2012-03-22 12:56:46 <riush> and all it takes you to evade that is one encrypted tunnel
 642 2012-03-22 12:58:23 <rebroad> so if the ISP mined a block, but with a much lower difficulty, the node would recognise that the difficulty was wrong, right?
 643 2012-03-22 12:58:41 <riush> yes
 644 2012-03-22 12:59:03 <rebroad> how does a node tell what difficulty the blocks should be? could the ISP fiddle with this so that they can wait until the difficulty goes down and then mine them?
 645 2012-03-22 12:59:24 <rebroad> (forgetting for a moment, the possibility of an encrypted tunnel)
 646 2012-03-22 12:59:42 <rebroad> (assuming that their customers use the standard protocol that the ISP can sniff)
 647 2012-03-22 12:59:48 <gmaxwell> Can the bitcoin 101 be moved to #bitcoin? It's sort of flodding off the actual development talk here.
 648 2012-03-22 13:00:03 graingert has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 649 2012-03-22 13:00:17 <rebroad> gmaxwell, ok
 650 2012-03-22 13:00:28 graingert has joined
 651 2012-03-22 13:00:59 <riush> not sure i can explain that well.. basically there is a difficulty target which defines how much work has to be done for a block. now the nodes look at how many block are generated over time, and if there are more than 10 blocks per minute difficulty is raised, if tehre are less, it is lowered
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 653 2012-03-22 13:10:06 <sipa> I've made a list of all undocumented options in bitcoin:
 654 2012-03-22 13:11:29 <sipa> genproclimit, disablesafemode, checkblocks, flushwallet, loadblockindextest, printblocktree, printblockindex, printblock, testsafemode, drop,essagetest
 655 2012-03-22 13:11:49 <gmaxwell> logtimestamps is documented?
 656 2012-03-22 13:14:02 <sipa> yes
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 662 2012-03-22 13:39:14 <gmaxwell> coblee: Any reports on addrman? Has it been working out okay for litecoin?
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 665 2012-03-22 13:40:16 <sipa> gmaxwell: i commented on github on the commit
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 671 2012-03-22 13:59:59 <gmaxwell> 03/22/12 13:57:56 Added 45311 addresses from 0.0.0.0: 0 tried, 1984 new
 672 2012-03-22 13:59:59 <gmaxwell> 03/22/12 13:57:56 Loaded 1984 addresses
 673 2012-03-22 14:00:12 <gmaxwell> ^ that looks a bit odd— on a first startup of a node switching to addrman.
 674 2012-03-22 14:03:28 <sipa> Suggestions?
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 685 2012-03-22 14:45:23 <gmaxwell> sipa: I'd be a little concerned with enabling all the new tests by default— what if they start rejecting valid chains?  But enabling them in a warn only capacity would still be useful for troubleshooting and testing the tests.
 686 2012-03-22 14:46:29 <sipa> gmaxwell: technically, they will reject valid chains (i.e. chains that will not cause any problems), but i'm quite sure they will not reject any chains that are created by the software
 687 2012-03-22 14:47:17 graingert has left ()
 688 2012-03-22 14:47:21 <gmaxwell> Then perhaps I'm paranoid because I haven't even read the patch yet. :)
 689 2012-03-22 14:47:58 <sipa> (when spending an output, the location of the spending transaction is written; this information is not used for anything but debugging, but it allows for some extra consistency checks)
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 697 2012-03-22 14:58:54 * luke-jr pokes wumpus
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 704 2012-03-22 15:14:49 <luke-jr> "Due to the non-disclosure of security patch information from Oracle, we are forced to ship this upstream version update of MySQL 5.1 into all releases that carry MySQL 5.1. There are several known incompatible changes, which are listed below, taken from dev.mysql.com's changelogs, available here:http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/news-5-1-x.html"
 705 2012-03-22 15:14:50 <luke-jr> ouch
 706 2012-03-22 15:17:44 <kinlo> luke-jr: where do you read that?
 707 2012-03-22 15:17:52 <luke-jr> kinlo: Debian updates
 708 2012-03-22 15:17:57 <kinlo> oracle really does not like open source, or itselves
 709 2012-03-22 15:17:59 <kinlo> ic
 710 2012-03-22 15:18:16 <kinlo> well, let's hope debian switches far far away from oracle
 711 2012-03-22 15:18:23 <[Tycho]> I don't like SQL :)
 712 2012-03-22 15:18:59 <luke-jr> kinlo: I don't think Debian can stop offering MySQL that easily :P
 713 2012-03-22 15:19:12 <sipa> I do, but only for certain purposes (and prefer Postgresql)
 714 2012-03-22 15:19:19 <kinlo> luke-jr: why not?
 715 2012-03-22 15:19:25 <luke-jr> kinlo: lots of people use MySQL
 716 2012-03-22 15:19:46 <kinlo> luke-jr: there are plenty of forks of mysql, with proper support and with companies that understand open source
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 720 2012-03-22 15:20:04 <kinlo> luke-jr: they are drop-in replacements so I don't see the problem
 721 2012-03-22 15:20:20 <kinlo> [Tycho]: you're using flat files for everything?
 722 2012-03-22 15:20:59 <kinlo> luke-jr: in the end they will be using the same mysql database, just with new features developed by someone else...
 723 2012-03-22 15:21:04 <luke-jr> kinlo: and those have this security fix?
 724 2012-03-22 15:21:21 <kinlo> those have all the known security fixes fixed
 725 2012-03-22 15:21:52 <kinlo> luke-jr: you cannot arm yourself against zero-day exploits, and as long as oracle doesn't disclose the info, you can treat it as a zero-day exploit
 726 2012-03-22 15:22:14 <kinlo> it will only be a matter of time until someone figures out what the actual bug is and will write patches
 727 2012-03-22 15:22:48 <kinlo> perhaps something debian should have done, but it's oracle who's to blame here
 728 2012-03-22 15:23:06 <kinlo> sipa: postgresql is just too complex
 729 2012-03-22 15:23:13 <jrmithdobbs> kinlo: but how many smarter people will find the bug and sell it to govs/etc before someone nicely fixes it for the community? (see: forbes article on vupen this morning)
 730 2012-03-22 15:23:33 <kinlo> I've been advocating postgresql for ages, been using it since version 7.0 or so, but most people just get scared away
 731 2012-03-22 15:23:45 <sipa> kinlo: could be; i never used mysql really
 732 2012-03-22 15:23:55 <jrmithdobbs> if postgres is too complex you don't need an rdbms in the first place.
 733 2012-03-22 15:23:57 <jrmithdobbs> simple as that.
 734 2012-03-22 15:24:18 <sipa> that was back when mysql didn't provide real transaction isolation afaik
 735 2012-03-22 15:24:22 <kinlo> jrmithdobbs: well, I agree, but never ever underestimate the dangers of large amounts of stupid people
 736 2012-03-22 15:24:45 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: it still doesn't in all cases, heh
 737 2012-03-22 15:24:55 <jrmithdobbs> mysql is such a clusterfuck
 738 2012-03-22 15:25:43 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: i heard things improved over time, but never looked into it
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 741 2012-03-22 15:37:09 <egecko> http://www.tagelmoust.com/bitdozer/pressrelease
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 744 2012-03-22 15:38:58 <phantomcircuit> kinlo, postgresql isn't complex
 745 2012-03-22 15:39:03 <phantomcircuit> it works
 746 2012-03-22 15:39:08 <kinlo> phantomcircuit: I agree
 747 2012-03-22 15:39:08 <phantomcircuit> there is a difference
 748 2012-03-22 15:39:15 <kinlo> phantomcircuit: you don't have to convince me
 749 2012-03-22 15:39:17 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: our DBAs bitch endlessly about the few mysql dbs we have ;p
 750 2012-03-22 15:39:33 <kinlo> phantomcircuit: it's just some people just refuse to use it
 751 2012-03-22 15:39:47 <phantomcircuit> sipa, mysql is what you get when you take shit and throw millions of dollars at it
 752 2012-03-22 15:39:52 <phantomcircuit> ie it's still shit
 753 2012-03-22 15:40:03 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: but these days, outside of replication and active/active stuff mysql isn't absolutely horrible, but almost all of the code written to use it is ;p
 754 2012-03-22 15:40:03 SphericalCow has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 755 2012-03-22 15:40:47 <jrmithdobbs> select * from ...; WHY IS THIS SO SLOW *rolleyes*
 756 2012-03-22 15:41:35 <phantomcircuit> any non trivial query in mysql will need to be screwed with to trick mysql into using the proper indexes
 757 2012-03-22 15:41:40 <phantomcircuit> it's retarded
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 762 2012-03-22 15:43:34 <phantomcircuit> although to be fair i do have one query that is slow as fuck in postgresql
 763 2012-03-22 15:43:40 <phantomcircuit> but i doubt it would be any better in mysql
 764 2012-03-22 15:43:54 <phantomcircuit> (it's mostly my fault honestly)
 765 2012-03-22 15:44:22 <copumpkin> I love postgresql
 766 2012-03-22 15:44:33 <t7> me2
 767 2012-03-22 15:44:42 <t7> but i still think sql is retarded
 768 2012-03-22 15:44:56 <t7> i shouldnt have to write a search query as text in this day and age
 769 2012-03-22 15:45:15 <t7> haskell should have introspection and reflection and stuff
 770 2012-03-22 15:46:41 <sipa> t7: it #bitcoin-dev here, not #haskell :)
 771 2012-03-22 15:47:06 <t7> yeah but everyone in here seems to be in haskell too
 772 2012-03-22 15:47:54 <sipa> and writing your query as text: i'm quite sure that parsing the query takes much less time than building a query plan (which would be done dynamically anyway), and both are outweighed by the actual execution
 773 2012-03-22 15:48:05 <gavinandresen> sipa:  your -walletupgrade patch scares me.... is a simpler patch possible?
 774 2012-03-22 15:48:42 <phantomcircuit> sipa, actually for even reasonably sophisticated queries the time to plan can be significant
 775 2012-03-22 15:48:54 <phantomcircuit> that's actually a very common mistake :)
 776 2012-03-22 15:48:57 <sipa> gavinandresen: worst case: it upgrades more than it should, i.e. the current behaviour :)
 777 2012-03-22 15:49:41 <sipa> gavinandresen: but now you can do something like start first time with -walletformat=40000 and be sure the created wallet will be readable by 0.4.0
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 780 2012-03-22 15:50:11 <gavinandresen> I like that feature.  It is the "maximum implicit version" that scares me
 781 2012-03-22 15:50:11 <sipa> anyway, yes, it can be easier probably, not sure if it will be cleaner
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 783 2012-03-22 15:50:38 <gavinandresen> Seems like a simple:  -walletformat applies only when you create a new wallet should work
 784 2012-03-22 15:51:32 <sipa> that's changing one line of code, but it may be useful, if you want to upgrade to one feature but not the very latest yet, for example
 785 2012-03-22 15:51:56 <sipa> -walletupgrade is the same as -walletversion=$CLIENT_VERSION
 786 2012-03-22 15:52:20 <gavinandresen> cool.  I don't understand what wallet.nWalletMaxVersion is for
 787 2012-03-22 15:52:32 <sipa> it's the maximum version the wallet is allowed to upgrade to
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 789 2012-03-22 15:52:51 <gavinandresen> That seems overly complicated
 790 2012-03-22 15:52:51 <sipa> the actual upgrade only happens when a particular feature is used (for example, generate a compressed pubkey)
 791 2012-03-22 15:53:05 [Tycho] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 792 2012-03-22 15:53:21 <gavinandresen> Why not just "a wallet has a version, it sticks to that version until you call -walletupgrade"
 793 2012-03-22 15:53:39 <sipa> that's the case
 794 2012-03-22 15:53:54 <gavinandresen> ... then why is nWalletMaxVersion persistent?
 795 2012-03-22 15:53:55 <sipa> (or use -walletformat)
 796 2012-03-22 15:53:59 <sipa> it's not
 797 2012-03-22 15:54:17 <sipa> may it needs a "memory only" comment
 798 2012-03-22 15:54:39 <sipa> *maybe
 799 2012-03-22 15:55:25 <sipa> one question: if i have a 0.3.19 wallet, load it into 0.6.0, and encrypt it, should it switch to using compressed pubkeys (which are an even more recent feature) as well?
 800 2012-03-22 15:55:26 <gavinandresen> OK-- I got scared because I had trouble following where nWalletVersion/nWalletMaxVersion and db.walletminversion (or whatever it is) all get set
 801 2012-03-22 15:55:39 <sipa> i'll try to add some comments
 802 2012-03-22 15:55:55 <gavinandresen> ...and it wasn't at all clear how the interacted.  Could the version be passed to the wallet constructor?
 803 2012-03-22 15:56:04 <gavinandresen> (the non-read-from-file one)
 804 2012-03-22 15:56:28 <gavinandresen> RE: 0.3.19 encrypted:  yes, I think it should always use the latest&greatest
 805 2012-03-22 15:56:37 <sipa> ok, that's the case now
 806 2012-03-22 15:57:20 <gavinandresen> RE: -walletupgrade == -walletversion=$CLIENT_VERSION:  maybe it should just be -walletupgrade with an optional version argument
 807 2012-03-22 15:58:16 <sipa> ok, that's possible
 808 2012-03-22 15:58:17 <gavinandresen> ... and error if you're trying to downgrade past db.minversion
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 814 2012-03-22 16:11:33 <sipa> gavinandresen: so if you start at first run with -walletupgrade=40000, you'll get a wallet that does not use compressed pubkeys
 815 2012-03-22 16:11:53 <gavinandresen> sounds good
 816 2012-03-22 16:12:23 <luke-jr> might make sense to parse v?\d\.\d\.\d format
 817 2012-03-22 16:12:24 <gavinandresen> (will be VERY handy for testing, I'm sure....)
 818 2012-03-22 16:12:56 <sipa> luke-jr: in the GUI, sure
 819 2012-03-22 16:13:13 <gavinandresen> yeah, not worth the coding effort for command-line usage
 820 2012-03-22 16:13:33 <gavinandresen> (and RPC getinfo will return the integer form)
 821 2012-03-22 16:19:35 <sipa> new version pushed
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 823 2012-03-22 16:20:02 <luke-jr> Can anyone build native Win32 besides wumpus?
 824 2012-03-22 16:20:11 <gavinandresen> great, I'll take a look.  I pulled addrman and check-minversion-first
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 827 2012-03-22 16:24:04 <sipa> is anyone up to coding a "Your wallet does not use the latest supported format. Do you want to upgrade? You will not be able to open your wallet in versions below X afterwards. [ Yes, upgrade] [ No, continue ]" ?
 828 2012-03-22 16:24:12 <sipa> dialog in qt?
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 830 2012-03-22 16:25:52 <luke-jr> sipa: that should probably wait for 0.7, since it requires all the translators
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 832 2012-03-22 16:26:33 <sipa> Ah, hmm.
 833 2012-03-22 16:26:36 <gavinandresen> yes, definitely 0.7
 834 2012-03-22 16:26:40 <sipa> Ok.
 835 2012-03-22 16:26:48 bow2snowman is now known as Mad7Scientist
 836 2012-03-22 16:27:21 <gavinandresen> sipa:  I think -walletupgrade should write a version to the wallet if !firstRun.  Otherwise, I have to generate a new key to get the new version number written to my old wallet, right?
 837 2012-03-22 16:29:17 <sipa> Yes, that's probably more intuitive (though you may end up with wallets that are able to be loaded in older versions, but fail to do so)
 838 2012-03-22 16:31:13 <gavinandresen> I think a common case will be somebody with a version 0 wallet wanting compressed keys, running -walletupgrade once, and then being really confused when the run again and still don't get compressed keys.
 839 2012-03-22 16:31:34 <gavinandresen> (well, not common, but common enough to worry about)
 840 2012-03-22 16:32:21 <sipa> Agree; i'll only do that for -walletupgrade and not for -walletupgrade=X, though (so you don't write -walletupgrade=50000, and it will fail to load in 0.4.1, even though no features were added in between)
 841 2012-03-22 16:32:35 <gavinandresen> sipa: ACK
 842 2012-03-22 16:33:05 <gavinandresen> (I'm 100% ok with =X being an undocumented "for testing only" feature)
 843 2012-03-22 16:36:33 agricocb has joined
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 845 2012-03-22 16:44:19 <sipa> gavinandresen: new version pushed; i'll do some tests later
 846 2012-03-22 16:44:44 <gavinandresen> sipa: great, thanks.  I'm testing -checkblocks now
 847 2012-03-22 16:46:30 maqr_ has quit (Quit: leaving)
 848 2012-03-22 16:54:35 <rebroad> my bitcoin-qt last got a best block over 30 minutes ago.. and last asked for one 8 minutes ago... last best block was 142418...
 849 2012-03-22 16:55:02 <rebroad> running a strace on it, it seems to be spending most of it's time dealing with EAGAIN results from reads...
 850 2012-03-22 16:56:15 <rebroad> ah.. it just asked for more blocks, 10 minutes later..
 851 2012-03-22 16:56:31 <rebroad> 10 minutes seems rather long to wait..
 852 2012-03-22 16:56:50 t7 has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 12.0/20120314195616])
 853 2012-03-22 16:56:50 <sipa> rebroad: if there's a new block, that's a queue for downloading its dependencies
 854 2012-03-22 16:56:58 <sipa> ;;bc,tslb
 855 2012-03-22 16:56:59 <gribble> Time since last block: 25 seconds
 856 2012-03-22 16:57:19 <rebroad> block 142419 is hardly "new"...
 857 2012-03-22 16:57:56 <sipa> but are you still stuck?
 858 2012-03-22 16:58:06 <sipa> or is it downloading now?
 859 2012-03-22 16:58:10 <rebroad> no, it's moved on..
 860 2012-03-22 16:58:14 <rebroad> it's at 142541 now
 861 2012-03-22 16:58:24 <rebroad> but I'm trying to work out why it's so slow..
 862 2012-03-22 16:58:30 <rebroad> can anything be done to speed it up?
 863 2012-03-22 16:58:40 <sipa> rebroad: which code version are you running?
 864 2012-03-22 16:58:48 <rebroad> perhaps making is ask more often than 10 minutes?
 865 2012-03-22 16:58:59 <sipa> it is NOT asking every 10 minutes
 866 2012-03-22 16:59:09 <sipa> if there's an announcement for a new block, and your client doesn't have its dependencies, it will request those
 867 2012-03-22 16:59:13 <rebroad> according to debug.log it was 10 minutes
 868 2012-03-22 16:59:34 <rebroad> ah...
 869 2012-03-22 16:59:58 BTC_Bear has joined
 870 2012-03-22 17:00:15 <rebroad> but surely it should already have seen announcements for blocks more recent than block 142418
 871 2012-03-22 17:00:21 <rebroad> (from previous runs)
 872 2012-03-22 17:00:44 <rebroad> doesn't it remember those announcements between instances of the process?
 873 2012-03-22 17:00:50 <sipa> no
 874 2012-03-22 17:00:58 <rebroad> oh.. why not?
 875 2012-03-22 17:01:17 <rebroad> that could save up to a 40 minute wait right there
 876 2012-03-22 17:01:17 <sipa> there's no point in it; it doesn't even remember them for more than some minutes, afaik
 877 2012-03-22 17:01:43 <sipa> it still needs to download them, and it's not not getting new announcements that causes your delay
 878 2012-03-22 17:01:45 <rebroad> avoiding 40 minutes of waiting seems like a point to me
 879 2012-03-22 17:02:36 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 880 2012-03-22 17:02:39 <sipa> did the previous block take 40 minutes?
 881 2012-03-22 17:03:19 <sipa> rebroad: the problem is that the downloading process is not parallellized, and that it doesn't manage it particularly well
 882 2012-03-22 17:03:37 <sipa> there are many improvements possible, but trust me, saving the announcements will not help
 883 2012-03-22 17:04:10 <rebroad> it would just be nice if upon running bitcoin-qt, it started downloading the blocks straight away, rather than waiting for the announcement of a new one
 884 2012-03-22 17:04:26 <rebroad> parallellized or not
 885 2012-03-22 17:04:46 * BlueMatt parallelized it a bit a few days ago...still working on the dos aspects of it though...
 886 2012-03-22 17:05:40 <sipa> rebroad: in almost every case that is what will happen, you probably just had bad luck trying a peer which went offline or didn't respond or is very slow
 887 2012-03-22 17:06:11 <sipa> rebroad: the clients requests blocks at startup, so it will get new announcements for all blocks it doesn't have
 888 2012-03-22 17:06:25 <sipa> but it's always possible that the other doesn't respond
 889 2012-03-22 17:06:35 <rebroad> sipa, well, bad luck or not.. it's enough that it's causing days to download the current blockchain... I just want to make it more friendly for people with similar net connections as me
 890 2012-03-22 17:07:16 <sipa> rebroad: yes, and i agree there are several improvements possible (btw, latest git has a patch that should make it a lot faster already)
 891 2012-03-22 17:07:33 <sipa> it is known that it is not optimal, but what you're suggesting will not fix that
 892 2012-03-22 17:08:23 occulta has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
 893 2012-03-22 17:08:48 * BlueMatt didnt read what rebroad was suggesting, but there are some serious improvements that really should happen to how we get blocks...
 894 2012-03-22 17:09:20 <BlueMatt> headers first, download from multiple peers, handle evil peers so it doesnt take days to get chain if the first peer doesnt like us
 895 2012-03-22 17:09:23 <BlueMatt>  etc, etc
 896 2012-03-22 17:09:36 <rebroad> also.. curious to know why nRequestTime is multiplied by 600000000.. seems like a lot of zeros in the debug.log for no apparent reason
 897 2012-03-22 17:10:35 <rebroad> BlueMatt, are you saying it's not using multiple peers currently?
 898 2012-03-22 17:10:56 <sipa> not really, no
 899 2012-03-22 17:11:00 <sipa> not for downloading blocks
 900 2012-03-22 17:11:17 <rebroad> erm..... ok....
 901 2012-03-22 17:11:40 <rebroad> and that's still trustworthy then?
 902 2012-03-22 17:11:48 <sipa> yes
 903 2012-03-22 17:12:01 <sipa> the problem is that downloading and verification and indexing and connecting happen at the same time, so you can't do more than one at the same time
 904 2012-03-22 17:12:07 <BlueMatt> its sane when it hears about new blocks, but  initial download almost entirely happens from one peer
 905 2012-03-22 17:12:25 <sipa> rebroad: it's simple: you always download a block from the peer that told you about it
 906 2012-03-22 17:12:48 <sipa> if you don't know a block's dependencies, you request those from the one who told you about the block
 907 2012-03-22 17:12:49 <rebroad> what sort of trouble could evil peers cause?
 908 2012-03-22 17:12:54 <sipa> none
 909 2012-03-22 17:13:05 <sipa> since you'll hear from the real blocks from other peers
 910 2012-03-22 17:13:06 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: FourthDr opened issue 977 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/977> || Diapolo opened pull request 976 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/976>
 911 2012-03-22 17:13:07 <BlueMatt> only delay your download
 912 2012-03-22 17:13:12 <rebroad> so, there's no such thing as an evil peer then?
 913 2012-03-22 17:13:16 <rebroad> ah, ok
 914 2012-03-22 17:13:17 <sipa> yes there is
 915 2012-03-22 17:13:23 <sipa> but their influence is limited
 916 2012-03-22 17:13:43 <rebroad> limited, but not negligible?
 917 2012-03-22 17:13:43 <sipa> if an attacker can surround you with bad peers, it becomes more dangerous
 918 2012-03-22 17:13:46 erle- has joined
 919 2012-03-22 17:13:46 <BlueMatt> it could slow your download significantly if they are the first peer you connect to, and are well connected themselves (ie usually are the first to give you notice of new blocks)
 920 2012-03-22 17:14:06 <sipa> but as long as you are connected to at least one good peer, you will always get the real chain
 921 2012-03-22 17:14:08 <rebroad> dangerous? what can happen if a node gets surrounded?
 922 2012-03-22 17:14:09 <BlueMatt> but even then one block from someone else first, and their hold on your download speed is gone
 923 2012-03-22 17:14:32 <sipa> rebroad: slow you down, put you an in invalid chain, ... (but they can't give you invalid transactions)
 924 2012-03-22 17:15:06 <rebroad> ah, but if I'm in an invalid chain, I could be the victim of a double-spend, right?
 925 2012-03-22 17:15:21 <sipa> yes
 926 2012-03-22 17:15:25 <rebroad> that's pretty serious..
 927 2012-03-22 17:15:34 <sipa> it is, but very hard to pull off
 928 2012-03-22 17:15:56 <rebroad> maybe this is another good reason why I ought to be able to have more than 8 connections..
 929 2012-03-22 17:16:33 <sipa> rebroad: your 8 outgoing connections are to peers you choose
 930 2012-03-22 17:16:35 <sipa> not your attacker
 931 2012-03-22 17:16:42 <sipa> the chance that they are all bad is very small
 932 2012-03-22 17:16:53 <rebroad> ah...  so an attacker can't influence the outgoing connections?
 933 2012-03-22 17:16:59 <sipa> a bit
 934 2012-03-22 17:17:02 <sipa> but not enough
 935 2012-03-22 17:17:39 <rebroad> i see... so is a node any more vulnerable by being able to receive incoming connections? I'd have thought not given they will stil have those 8 outgoing connections..
 936 2012-03-22 17:21:11 <BlueMatt> no, but you have to assume that all incomming connections are from your attacker
 937 2012-03-22 17:21:28 <BlueMatt> thus you still have to have enough outgoing no matter how many incoming connections you have
 938 2012-03-22 17:23:32 agricocb has joined
 939 2012-03-22 17:24:00 <rebroad> is bitcoin properly catering for the large number of people using internet connections that disallow incoming connections?
 940 2012-03-22 17:24:35 <rebroad> I'm getting the impression that incoming connections can make quite a difference, but it may be a false impression
 941 2012-03-22 17:24:50 <BlueMatt> they make no difference to the local user - just more bw used
 942 2012-03-22 17:25:02 <BlueMatt> but to the network - they make a world of difference
 943 2012-03-22 17:25:09 <BlueMatt> the more nodes that accept incoming connections, the beter
 944 2012-03-22 17:25:24 <BlueMatt> also, if your isp blocks ALL incoming connections, you arent on an isp
 945 2012-03-22 17:25:34 t7 has joined
 946 2012-03-22 17:25:37 <BlueMatt> you are on...I dunno, but its not the internet
 947 2012-03-22 17:25:39 <luke-jr> rebroad: where is this large number?
 948 2012-03-22 17:26:02 <rebroad> luke-jr, well, firstly, all people using T-Mobile..
 949 2012-03-22 17:26:04 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: yeah, I think people who have NSPs should start a class action suit for false advertising if they claim Internet service
 950 2012-03-22 17:26:10 <luke-jr> rebroad: nonsense, I have T-Mobile
 951 2012-03-22 17:26:14 <helo> many routers from isps use nat, which prevents incoming connections
 952 2012-03-22 17:26:21 <luke-jr> rebroad: the problem there is that Bitcoin-Qt is IPv4 only
 953 2012-03-22 17:26:22 <rebroad> luke-jr, mobile T-Mobile?
 954 2012-03-22 17:26:25 <luke-jr> rebroad: yes
 955 2012-03-22 17:26:39 <luke-jr> rebroad: I can accept incoming IPv6 connections just fine
 956 2012-03-22 17:26:40 <rebroad> luke-jr, how do you enable incoming connections?
 957 2012-03-22 17:26:47 <sipa> rebroad: the limitation of 8 outgoing connections is exactly because many people don't support incoming connections
 958 2012-03-22 17:27:06 <BlueMatt> rebroad: ok, if you are on a cell modem that doesnt allow incoming connections (fair enough, most dont) I would argue you arent on the internet
 959 2012-03-22 17:27:10 <sipa> (and also because it's not necessary)
 960 2012-03-22 17:27:14 <BlueMatt> you are on...
 961 2012-03-22 17:28:10 <luke-jr> rebroad: I don't. I just connect.
 962 2012-03-22 17:28:21 pusle has joined
 963 2012-03-22 17:28:25 <rebroad> luke-jr, using a dongle, or tethering?
 964 2012-03-22 17:28:34 <luke-jr> rebroad: netiher
 965 2012-03-22 17:28:48 <rebroad> luke-jr, how then?
 966 2012-03-22 17:28:53 <luke-jr> it's builtin to my laptop
 967 2012-03-22 17:28:55 <freewil> anyone know how many nodes mt gox has and whether they accept incoming connections
 968 2012-03-22 17:29:16 <luke-jr> freewil: #mtgox
 969 2012-03-22 17:30:02 <helo> is there a reason why i've received four mailing list digests today, two of which contain only one message?
 970 2012-03-22 17:30:23 t7 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 971 2012-03-22 17:30:30 <BlueMatt> sf sucks?
 972 2012-03-22 17:30:34 <luke-jr> helo: some messages were over 40k and required moderator to send them
 973 2012-03-22 17:30:59 <luke-jr> Gavin already complained at them
 974 2012-03-22 17:31:00 <helo> ahh right, they've quoted the entire thread
 975 2012-03-22 17:31:16 <helo> fair enough, thanks
 976 2012-03-22 17:31:37 t7 has joined
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 980 2012-03-22 17:45:36 <rebroad> erm.... why does chrome unminimise when bitcoin-qt exits? almost every time it does it
 981 2012-03-22 17:47:54 andytoshi has joined
 982 2012-03-22 17:48:30 <luke-jr> rebroad: what OS?
 983 2012-03-22 17:49:50 <rebroad> luke-jr, ubuntu 11.10
 984 2012-03-22 17:50:16 <helo> rebroad: are you using unity?
 985 2012-03-22 17:50:18 <rebroad> I thought when -connect was specified on the command line, that any addnodes in the bitcoin.conf would be ignored...
 986 2012-03-22 17:50:21 <rebroad> helo, yes
 987 2012-03-22 17:50:53 <helo> rebroad: and chrome from deb http://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/deb/ stable main?
 988 2012-03-22 17:51:09 <rebroad> helo, I think so, yes, the default ubuntu chrome
 989 2012-03-22 17:51:26 <helo> that's what i'm using at home, haven't noticed that before...
 990 2012-03-22 17:51:55 <rebroad> hmmm. I just quit it again, and it didn't do it this time..
 991 2012-03-22 17:52:22 <luke-jr> >_<
 992 2012-03-22 17:54:05 <rebroad> hmmmm..  bitcoin-qt -connect=moorlane.no-ip.com doesn't seem to work... looking at the debug.log, it's not even trying to connect...
 993 2012-03-22 17:55:11 <sipa> rebroad: add -dns
 994 2012-03-22 17:55:23 <sipa> by default it does not perform dns lookups
 995 2012-03-22 17:55:41 <gavinandresen> (on purpose, dns lookups are a potential privacy leak)
 996 2012-03-22 17:55:59 <rebroad> ah... thanks...
 997 2012-03-22 17:56:45 <rebroad> hmmm.. it's connected (twice, according to debug.log), but the last update in debug.log is about ThreadDNSAddressSeed exiting, and it seems to be doing nothing now.
 998 2012-03-22 17:57:23 <rebroad> I guess it's waiting for the announcment of a new block...
 999 2012-03-22 17:57:35 <sipa> are you fully synced now?
1000 2012-03-22 17:57:37 <rebroad> ho hum.. I love waiting..
1001 2012-03-22 17:57:45 <rebroad> sipa, no
1002 2012-03-22 17:58:03 <sipa> then it should continue sycning; which version are you running?
1003 2012-03-22 17:58:26 * luke-jr wonders what -dns does lookups for besides user-explicit stuff? O.o
1004 2012-03-22 17:58:30 <rebroad> 0.6.0.4-beta
1005 2012-03-22 17:58:45 <sipa> luke-jr: -addnode -connect -proxy afaik
1006 2012-03-22 17:59:22 <luke-jr> sipa: all of which the user specifies… so why an extra option? XD
1007 2012-03-22 17:59:44 <sipa> unsure; some people didn't want dns lookups even for those
1008 2012-03-22 17:59:53 <luke-jr> then they shouldn't provide a hostname?
1009 2012-03-22 18:00:03 * luke-jr scratches his head
1010 2012-03-22 18:00:25 <andytoshi> maybe dns lookups do not necessarily go through tor
1011 2012-03-22 18:00:29 * sipa never imaged luke-jr as having a head
1012 2012-03-22 18:00:31 <andytoshi> so to avoid mistakes
1013 2012-03-22 18:00:37 <BlueMatt> sipa: did you figure out what the addrman crashes were before merge, or were they too rarely reproduceable?
1014 2012-03-22 18:00:42 <luke-jr> on that note, I've been using addnode=relay.eligius.st for a while and never noticed it failed
1015 2012-03-22 18:00:59 <andytoshi> or if they're letting people remotely set -addnode parameters?
1016 2012-03-22 18:00:59 <luke-jr> andytoshi: well, then maybe it should be a Tor-specific default :P
1017 2012-03-22 18:01:01 <sipa> BlueMatt: i've been running my p2pool miner for 3 days on addrman in valgrind; not a single error
1018 2012-03-22 18:01:09 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: too rare I guess
1019 2012-03-22 18:01:23 <BlueMatt> there were changes made to addrman after the most recent crashes?
1020 2012-03-22 18:01:24 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I also ran addrman again locally, but didn't get a crash before Gavin merged it
1021 2012-03-22 18:01:26 <luke-jr> no
1022 2012-03-22 18:01:30 <BlueMatt> :(
1023 2012-03-22 18:01:42 <BlueMatt> well it looks like 0.6rc5 is gonna be a big one...
1024 2012-03-22 18:01:45 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: there's also a slight possibility something in next-test has bad interaction with it
1025 2012-03-22 18:01:50 <luke-jr> but I have no idea what that would be
1026 2012-03-22 18:02:13 <BlueMatt> I thought sipa said he saw a crash as well at one point or another?
1027 2012-03-22 18:02:16 <luke-jr> addrman is pretty distinct from everything else
1028 2012-03-22 18:02:55 <sipa> BlueMatt: reported by luke-jr
1029 2012-03-22 18:02:59 <sipa> that's the only one
1030 2012-03-22 18:03:07 <luke-jr> in any case, it seems rare enough that it shouldn't be a blocker for 0.6.0 IMO
1031 2012-03-22 18:03:07 <rebroad> luke-jr, that node disconnected me almost straight away...
1032 2012-03-22 18:03:08 <BlueMatt> mmm, ok well then I guess I feel fine about it...
1033 2012-03-22 18:03:12 <sipa> gavin had one before the lastest change
1034 2012-03-22 18:03:20 <luke-jr> rebroad: which one?
1035 2012-03-22 18:03:22 <BlueMatt> ok, well whatever
1036 2012-03-22 18:03:24 * BlueMatt -> class
1037 2012-03-22 18:03:27 <rebroad> relay.eligius.st
1038 2012-03-22 18:03:50 SphericalCow has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1039 2012-03-22 18:03:52 <rebroad> 22/03/12 18:01:36 trying connection 173.242.112.53:8333 lastseen=-342344.2hrs lasttry=-370122.0hrs
1040 2012-03-22 18:03:53 <rebroad> 22/03/12 18:01:36 connected 173.242.112.53:8333
1041 2012-03-22 18:03:53 <rebroad> 22/03/12 18:01:36 socket closed
1042 2012-03-22 18:03:53 <rebroad> 22/03/12 18:01:36 disconnecting node 173.242.112.53:8333
1043 2012-03-22 18:03:54 <luke-jr> rebroad: there's 2 IPs there
1044 2012-03-22 18:04:00 <luke-jr> try the other one :p
1045 2012-03-22 18:04:06 <rebroad> lol
1046 2012-03-22 18:04:24 h4ckm3 has quit (Quit: changing servers)
1047 2012-03-22 18:04:29 <rebroad> oh.. so the dns resolving isn't very.. erm.. complete....
1048 2012-03-22 18:05:46 <rebroad> hmmm. connection to just one node...  it's sending getdatas.. but seemingly not getting any
1049 2012-03-22 18:06:14 <rebroad> ah.. it just unminimised chrome again!
1050 2012-03-22 18:06:15 <sipa> can you run -debug and paste your log somewhere?
1051 2012-03-22 18:07:34 <rebroad> oooh. it like the eligius.st node :)
1052 2012-03-22 18:07:47 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1053 2012-03-22 18:07:51 <rebroad> sipa, this was when i was connecting to moorlane.no-ip.com node only...
1054 2012-03-22 18:08:04 <rebroad> sipa that it didn't seem to get any ProcessBlock: ACCEPTED
1055 2012-03-22 18:08:19 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Man who run behind car get exhausted)
1056 2012-03-22 18:08:51 <sipa> rebroad: doesn't matter; if it's really not catching up from anywhere, there may be a problem with your blockchain or some other bug
1057 2012-03-22 18:08:56 <sipa> i'd like to see the full log
1058 2012-03-22 18:09:01 <rebroad> sipa, ok
1059 2012-03-22 18:09:34 <rebroad> the unminimising of chome is both amusing and annoying :)
1060 2012-03-22 18:09:39 h4ckm3 has joined
1061 2012-03-22 18:10:44 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: #946 looks good
1062 2012-03-22 18:14:58 danbri has joined
1063 2012-03-22 18:16:12 <rebroad> sipa, shall I email it to you?
1064 2012-03-22 18:16:42 <sipa> rebroad: see pm
1065 2012-03-22 18:17:50 cdecker has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1066 2012-03-22 18:17:56 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: RE: addrman:  I think the DoS prevention benefit is worth the late-in-the-cycle risk.  I couldn't reproduce a crash, either (and I tried pretty hard)
1067 2012-03-22 18:18:30 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: had a chance to look at the boost::interprocess problem yet?  That and testing sipa's -walletupgrade are the only things left on my 0.6 list
1068 2012-03-22 18:19:07 specular has joined
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1071 2012-03-22 18:24:05 <sipa> gavinandresen: i don't get it; i pass -walletupgrade and GetBoolArg("-walletupgrade", false) returns false
1072 2012-03-22 18:25:34 <gavinandresen> sipa: I'm staring at the GetBoolArg code and I don't get it either....
1073 2012-03-22 18:25:43 <gavinandresen> sure one of those l's isn't a 1 ?
1074 2012-03-22 18:26:22 * sipa is blind
1075 2012-03-22 18:26:28 <sipa> -walletupgrade vs -upgradewallet
1076 2012-03-22 18:26:31 <sipa> preference?
1077 2012-03-22 18:26:37 <gavinandresen> that'd do it....
1078 2012-03-22 18:27:07 <sipa> -walletupgrade it is
1079 2012-03-22 18:27:09 <gavinandresen> we've got other verb-noun options, I think
1080 2012-03-22 18:27:17 <gavinandresen> -logtimestamps
1081 2012-03-22 18:27:23 <gavinandresen> -checkblocks
1082 2012-03-22 18:27:31 <gavinandresen> ... so I think -upgradewallet
1083 2012-03-22 18:27:52 <sipa> ok
1084 2012-03-22 18:28:33 <gavinandresen> (and then there's the oddball "-blocknotify" ....)
1085 2012-03-22 18:29:21 <luke-jr> it's not notifying the blocks though ;)
1086 2012-03-22 18:29:27 <gavinandresen> true
1087 2012-03-22 18:29:50 <gavinandresen> AFK for a while-- I'm packing to leave for a long weekend, but I'll bring along my gitian-capable laptop
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1090 2012-03-22 18:31:46 p0s has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1103 2012-03-22 19:07:46 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: don't merge my PGP key, I'm about to replace it
1104 2012-03-22 19:08:00 <luke-jr> 1kbit is apparently insufficient nowadays, so making a 16kbit one
1105 2012-03-22 19:08:56 erle- has quit (Quit: erle-)
1106 2012-03-22 19:14:17 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1107 2012-03-22 19:27:17 <andytoshi> has anyone tried compiling with clang?
1108 2012-03-22 19:27:31 <andytoshi> i'm trying to run the analyzer, and it's bombing out in the c++ headers :P
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1112 2012-03-22 19:35:49 <sipa> luke-jr: a 3072 bit key has +- the same security level as bitcoin's signatures
1113 2012-03-22 19:36:21 <luke-jr> sipa: o.o
1114 2012-03-22 19:36:35 <luke-jr> sipa: but I can change my Bitcoin keys easily
1115 2012-03-22 19:36:37 <luke-jr> :p
1116 2012-03-22 19:36:37 <andytoshi> oh, ECC
1117 2012-03-22 19:36:42 <luke-jr> sipa: I'll use 4096 for my subkeys
1118 2012-03-22 19:36:52 <jrmithdobbs> andytoshi: it doesn't build with clang
1119 2012-03-22 19:37:07 <jrmithdobbs> andytoshi: i futzed with it some and gave up
1120 2012-03-22 19:38:33 <sipa> luke-jr: i have a permanent 4k main key, and separate smaller subkeys for signing and encrypting
1121 2012-03-22 19:39:05 cande has joined
1122 2012-03-22 19:39:06 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: havent yet, I may take a look today, if not tomorrow
1123 2012-03-22 19:39:16 <sipa> i wish gpg supported ECC
1124 2012-03-22 19:39:16 <BlueMatt> damn tests to study for...
1125 2012-03-22 19:39:34 <andytoshi> jrmithdobbs: alright thanks, it's looking pretty thorny
1126 2012-03-22 19:39:52 <andytoshi> default c++ lib has c++0x crap that llvm doesn't understand, and the alternate one makes clang segfault
1127 2012-03-22 19:40:00 <andytoshi> so i'll just stay happy with cppcheck
1128 2012-03-22 19:40:07 <andytoshi> which gives 3 errors, none of them actual bugs
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1132 2012-03-22 19:40:51 <luke-jr> sipa: apparnetly it has since 2010…
1133 2012-03-22 19:41:09 <luke-jr> but only 256,384,521 bit
1134 2012-03-22 19:41:25 <BlueMatt> 521?
1135 2012-03-22 19:41:37 <sipa> 521 bit ECC = 15kbut RSA
1136 2012-03-22 19:41:41 <sipa> kbit
1137 2012-03-22 19:41:46 <sipa> yes, 521
1138 2012-03-22 19:41:50 <BlueMatt> oh...
1139 2012-03-22 19:42:07 <luke-jr> but ECDSA can't do encryption…
1140 2012-03-22 19:42:23 <sipa> ECIES can
1141 2012-03-22 19:43:06 <sipa> (which is ECDH+AES)
1142 2012-03-22 19:44:01 <andytoshi> what does ECDH stand for?
1143 2012-03-22 19:44:30 <BlueMatt> elliptic curve diffie hellman
1144 2012-03-22 19:44:38 <BlueMatt> iirc
1145 2012-03-22 19:44:39 <andytoshi> thx
1146 2012-03-22 19:44:48 <luke-jr> "The ECC support accomplished in this project was successfully merged into mainline GnuPG v.2 source tree in Feb 2011."
1147 2012-03-22 19:44:58 <luke-jr> so where is it? -.-
1148 2012-03-22 19:46:02 <phantomcircuit> probably in libgcrypt
1149 2012-03-22 19:47:08 <luke-jr> if I build gnupg from git and use ECC, will my keys/sigs work with older versions? <.<
1150 2012-03-22 19:47:21 <sipa> probably not
1151 2012-03-22 19:47:44 <andytoshi> ECC occurs exactly once in gcrypt.h (and never in gcrypt-module.h) fwiw
1152 2012-03-22 19:47:44 <BlueMatt> I would hope non-ecc keys would
1153 2012-03-22 19:48:01 <andytoshi> 1044 /* Return an S-expression with the parameters of the named ECC curve
1154 2012-03-22 19:48:04 <andytoshi> 1045    NAME.  ALGO must be set to an ECC algorithm.  */
1155 2012-03-22 19:48:06 <andytoshi> 1046 gcry_sexp_t gcry_pk_get_param (int algo, const char *name);
1156 2012-03-22 19:48:39 <andytoshi> oh, i see.. it has a ton of stuff
1157 2012-03-22 19:48:50 <andytoshi> if you set algo to EC_DSA, all the *_pk_* functions will use ECC
1158 2012-03-22 19:49:00 <andytoshi> so phantomcircuit is correct
1159 2012-03-22 19:49:20 <phantomcircuit> yeah
1160 2012-03-22 19:49:31 <phantomcircuit> there is a *ton* of stuff in libgcrypt that nobody ever uses
1161 2012-03-22 19:49:32 <phantomcircuit> lol
1162 2012-03-22 19:49:44 <andytoshi> i wonder if a bitcoin client could use gcrypt instead of openssl, and get around the licencing problems?
1163 2012-03-22 19:50:46 <luke-jr> probably
1164 2012-03-22 19:51:00 <BlueMatt> is gcrypt gpl or lgpl?
1165 2012-03-22 19:51:02 <andytoshi> actually, what is the point of libgcrypt when openssl already exists?
1166 2012-03-22 19:51:09 <andytoshi> lgpl
1167 2012-03-22 19:51:35 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: LGPL
1168 2012-03-22 19:51:35 <andytoshi> just gnu trying to fight the evil MIT and BSD licenses?
1169 2012-03-22 19:51:43 <BlueMatt> probably
1170 2012-03-22 19:51:48 <luke-jr> andytoshi: OpenSSL has licensing issues, it's not normal MIT/BSD
1171 2012-03-22 19:53:26 <luke-jr> bleh, I need to replace BIP17 with BIP16 in #bitcoin-watch
1172 2012-03-22 19:54:51 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
1173 2012-03-22 19:59:55 <luke-jr> anyone care to test a BIP16 txn on mainnet? <.<
1174 2012-03-22 20:00:05 <luke-jr> and/or review my code?
1175 2012-03-22 20:03:50 <luke-jr> https://gitorious.org/~Luke-Jr/bitcoin/luke-jrs-supybot-btcmonitor/commit/bf45ee2e0f7e6ef8bb731b9192cc7ee2a76c6de4
1176 2012-03-22 20:04:11 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
1177 2012-03-22 20:05:21 <luke-jr> oops https://gitorious.org/~Luke-Jr/bitcoin/luke-jrs-supybot-btcmonitor/commit/eabd3eb
1178 2012-03-22 20:06:01 andytoshi has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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1182 2012-03-22 20:11:13 <luke-jr> sipa: any opinion on whether 'a1a0469 More debug output for failed reorganizations' should be merged to stable?
1183 2012-03-22 20:15:49 Mr-saya1 has joined
1184 2012-03-22 20:16:11 <sipa> luke-jr: technically not a bug fix, but probably useful; go ahead
1185 2012-03-22 20:16:15 <Mr-saya1> hello ! i want something to be added into bitcoin charts website if its possible , can i request or what can i do ?
1186 2012-03-22 20:16:32 <sipa> tcatm: you operate bitcoincharts, no?
1187 2012-03-22 20:18:43 userjjg has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1188 2012-03-22 20:18:52 <Mr-saya1> i am a technical analyst and id really appreciate some thing added ,
1189 2012-03-22 20:18:59 userhgj has joined
1190 2012-03-22 20:19:50 <luke-jr> sipa: #948 depends on #930, right? any reason to rush them into stable before 0.6.0?
1191 2012-03-22 20:20:15 larsivi has joined
1192 2012-03-22 20:21:44 erle- has joined
1193 2012-03-22 20:22:36 <sipa> luke-jr: they are independent, but i wouldn't put 948 in stable yet
1194 2012-03-22 20:23:29 ovidiusoft has joined
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1196 2012-03-22 20:27:30 Mr-saya has joined
1197 2012-03-22 20:27:42 andytoshi has joined
1198 2012-03-22 20:28:16 <andytoshi> grr, stupid library making me re-enter my card number every few hours
1199 2012-03-22 20:28:23 <andytoshi> i have to disable tor and noscript to do it, too
1200 2012-03-22 20:29:46 Mr-saya1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1201 2012-03-22 20:35:49 MaxSan1 has joined
1202 2012-03-22 20:35:57 <MaxSan1> anyone about please
1203 2012-03-22 20:36:18 <MaxSan1> having a freak out here
1204 2012-03-22 20:36:26 <MaxSan1> think client has corrupted a few hundread of my coins
1205 2012-03-22 20:36:30 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1206 2012-03-22 20:36:45 <sipa> what do you see?
1207 2012-03-22 20:37:17 <andytoshi> the coins, i assure you, are safe -- the only thing that could be corrupted is your privkeys
1208 2012-03-22 20:37:24 <andytoshi> please back up wallet.dat before doing anything else
1209 2012-03-22 20:37:42 <MaxSan1> ok
1210 2012-03-22 20:37:53 <MaxSan1> I am using a USB secure drive as my cold storage
1211 2012-03-22 20:37:55 bitvampi_ has joined
1212 2012-03-22 20:37:59 <MaxSan1> only check it very infrequently
1213 2012-03-22 20:38:10 <MaxSan1> its runnign multibit
1214 2012-03-22 20:38:16 <andytoshi> hmm
1215 2012-03-22 20:38:20 underscor has joined
1216 2012-03-22 20:38:31 <MaxSan1> i sent 413 coins to to this a while ago
1217 2012-03-22 20:38:42 <andytoshi> to what address?
1218 2012-03-22 20:38:45 <MaxSan1> now it says only 389.99 came
1219 2012-03-22 20:38:58 <MaxSan1> but the remaing split of to a different address
1220 2012-03-22 20:39:04 <MaxSan1> that my ORIGINAL client owns
1221 2012-03-22 20:39:18 <sipa> that's very normal
1222 2012-03-22 20:39:22 <andytoshi> do you have a blockexplorer link?
1223 2012-03-22 20:39:32 <MaxSan1> one moment
1224 2012-03-22 20:40:25 bitvampire has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1225 2012-03-22 20:41:21 <MaxSan1> http://blockexplorer.com/block/000000000000059457f9ce90b930967909d636f787c08bb5294a14bfb61433f0
1226 2012-03-22 20:41:27 <MaxSan1> second from the top
1227 2012-03-22 20:42:06 <andytoshi> yep, i see it
1228 2012-03-22 20:42:23 <andytoshi> your concern is the 1DYcK1CH address is not in your new wallet?
1229 2012-03-22 20:42:42 RazielZ has joined
1230 2012-03-22 20:42:47 <helo> that address is a DYcK...
1231 2012-03-22 20:43:00 <MaxSan1>  1DYcK1CHpNCM542gZRHb5gumqeDRSmcfUu: 25.9786
1232 2012-03-22 20:43:00 <MaxSan1>  1EEbPStbXpXsbeW7EmLU2xXNw6qntyDi52: 389.99993872
1233 2012-03-22 20:43:28 <MaxSan1> that 389.99 came through but is marked as "not spendable"
1234 2012-03-22 20:43:33 abracadabra has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1235 2012-03-22 20:43:38 <andytoshi> yes, the 25.9786 amount is change, which was sent back to the original wallet that you sent from
1236 2012-03-22 20:43:39 <andytoshi> marked by who?
1237 2012-03-22 20:43:45 <andytoshi> ;bc,blocks
1238 2012-03-22 20:43:45 <MaxSan1> multibit
1239 2012-03-22 20:43:52 <andytoshi> ;;bc,blocks
1240 2012-03-22 20:43:53 <gribble> 172395
1241 2012-03-22 20:43:54 <MaxSan1> its got balance
1242 2012-03-22 20:43:57 <MaxSan1> and available to spend
1243 2012-03-22 20:44:12 <luke-jr> sipa: look good? http://tinyurl.com/83lr2pk
1244 2012-03-22 20:45:01 <andytoshi> hmm, this may have to do with the BIP16 clusterfuck
1245 2012-03-22 20:45:09 <MaxSan1> well
1246 2012-03-22 20:45:12 <MaxSan1> look at this also
1247 2012-03-22 20:45:14 <andytoshi> so your coins are fine, your client just isn't sure of the blockchain status
1248 2012-03-22 20:45:31 <MaxSan1> Status: 6015 confirmations
1249 2012-03-22 20:45:31 <MaxSan1> Date: 02/03/2012 20:45
1250 2012-03-22 20:45:31 <MaxSan1> Source: Generated
1251 2012-03-22 20:45:31 <MaxSan1> Credit: 0.00944368 BTC
1252 2012-03-22 20:45:31 <MaxSan1> Net amount: +0.00944368 BTC
1253 2012-03-22 20:45:32 <MaxSan1> Generated coins must wait 120 blocks before they can be spent. When you generated this block, it was broadcast to the network to be added to the block chain. If it fails to get into the chain, it will change to "not accepted" and not be spendable. This may occasionally happen if another node generates a block within a few seconds of yours.
1254 2012-03-22 20:45:44 <MaxSan1> wtf is that? lol
1255 2012-03-22 20:46:27 <BlueMatt> so what is your problem?
1256 2012-03-22 20:46:42 <BlueMatt> multibit wont let you spend the 1EEbPS... coins?
1257 2012-03-22 20:46:50 <MaxSan1> yes ^^
1258 2012-03-22 20:46:56 <MaxSan1> 389.99 coins cant be used
1259 2012-03-22 20:47:09 <BlueMatt> the tx looks fine, multibit is just confused
1260 2012-03-22 20:47:30 <andytoshi> what block depth is your client at?
1261 2012-03-22 20:47:32 <MaxSan1> ok thats cool i can handle that
1262 2012-03-22 20:47:36 <MaxSan1> block dpeth?
1263 2012-03-22 20:47:44 <MaxSan1> 172395
1264 2012-03-22 20:47:53 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,blcocks
1265 2012-03-22 20:47:54 <gribble> Error: "bc,blcocks" is not a valid command.
1266 2012-03-22 20:47:56 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,blocks
1267 2012-03-22 20:47:57 <gribble> 172395
1268 2012-03-22 20:48:10 <andytoshi> hmm
1269 2012-03-22 20:48:24 <MaxSan1> it could be a bug in the client I guess
1270 2012-03-22 20:48:36 <MaxSan1> I guess il let the developer know when he is back.
1271 2012-03-22 20:48:42 <MaxSan1> aslongs the coins arent lost
1272 2012-03-22 20:48:44 <andytoshi> yeah
1273 2012-03-22 20:48:48 <MaxSan1> and my wallet isnt broken
1274 2012-03-22 20:48:49 <MaxSan1> im happy
1275 2012-03-22 20:48:51 <andytoshi> if you need to spend them, you could try the satoshi client
1276 2012-03-22 20:48:52 <MaxSan1> as AFTER that date
1277 2012-03-22 20:49:00 <andytoshi> or try redownloading the blockchain
1278 2012-03-22 20:49:01 <MaxSan1> i have sent another 100 BTC to that address
1279 2012-03-22 20:49:03 <MaxSan1> and its spendable
1280 2012-03-22 20:49:09 <BlueMatt> andytoshi: and import the multibit wallet how?
1281 2012-03-22 20:49:18 <MaxSan1> ^^
1282 2012-03-22 20:49:24 <andytoshi> export that specific keypair?
1283 2012-03-22 20:49:27 <andytoshi> can multibit do that?
1284 2012-03-22 20:49:31 <BlueMatt> nfc
1285 2012-03-22 20:49:38 <MaxSan1> I was going to maybe try armory
1286 2012-03-22 20:49:43 <MaxSan1> see if it can eat up my wallets
1287 2012-03-22 20:49:47 <MaxSan1> idont need to spend
1288 2012-03-22 20:49:50 <MaxSan1> but i dont want to loose
1289 2012-03-22 20:50:08 <andytoshi> as long as the privkey isn't lost (and it's not, if you managed to spend anything)
1290 2012-03-22 20:50:09 <andytoshi> you're fine
1291 2012-03-22 20:50:29 <BlueMatt> you assume the wallet isnt corrupted
1292 2012-03-22 20:50:33 <BlueMatt> there are no guarantees of that
1293 2012-03-22 20:50:38 <andytoshi> those coins bounced through a few addresses before getting to 1EEbPS, so there shouldn't be anything wrong with them
1294 2012-03-22 20:50:44 <BlueMatt> but if it says later ones are working
1295 2012-03-22 20:50:54 abracadab has joined
1296 2012-03-22 20:50:56 <BlueMatt> well I mean maybe the wallet is missing that privkey
1297 2012-03-22 20:51:00 <BlueMatt> maybe that privkey got corrupted
1298 2012-03-22 20:51:07 <BlueMatt> but probably not since later coins to that address work
1299 2012-03-22 20:51:09 <MaxSan1> I have a backup...
1300 2012-03-22 20:51:17 <MaxSan1> well I can try and send a small amount
1301 2012-03-22 20:51:20 <BlueMatt> anyway, Id ask the multibit devs or bitcoinj devs
1302 2012-03-22 20:51:20 <MaxSan1> to that specific address?
1303 2012-03-22 20:51:27 JZavala has joined
1304 2012-03-22 20:51:42 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1305 2012-03-22 20:52:06 molecular has joined
1306 2012-03-22 20:53:33 <MaxSan1> sent 0.0.1
1307 2012-03-22 20:53:44 <MaxSan1> have to wait for confirmation check it works
1308 2012-03-22 20:54:31 <MaxSan1> thanks for your support guys il let you know when  this confirms
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1319 2012-03-22 21:11:37 <sipa> luke-jr: i fail at @ gpg2 :)
1320 2012-03-22 21:12:56 luke-jr has quit (otg!~luke-jr@2001:470:5:265:222:4dff:fe50:4c49|Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1321 2012-03-22 21:13:28 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Quit: changing servers)
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1326 2012-03-22 21:20:58 <jrmithdobbs> andytoshi: i think it'd be a more interesting experiment to extend nacl's primitive support to include enough for bitcoin to use it
1327 2012-03-22 21:21:22 <jrmithdobbs> (it doesn't have our curve)
1328 2012-03-22 21:21:37 <sipa> let's just switch bitcoin to ed25519
1329 2012-03-22 21:21:42 <jrmithdobbs> agreed
1330 2012-03-22 21:21:52 <jrmithdobbs> but we can't just flip a switch for that ;p
1331 2012-03-22 21:22:25 <sipa> actually... modified ed25519 so it supports key recovery
1332 2012-03-22 21:23:20 <jrmithdobbs> why?
1333 2012-03-22 21:23:41 <gmaxwell> because key recovery significantly reduces the amount of data needed in transactions.
1334 2012-03-22 21:23:42 <sipa> they use the hash of the pubkey someone in the signing system
1335 2012-03-22 21:23:55 <sipa> which is not possible if you don't know it yet
1336 2012-03-22 21:24:19 <sipa> the paper explains why it's there, namely to prevent a malleability of signatures, but that isn't an issue for bitcoin afaik
1337 2012-03-22 21:24:47 <gmaxwell> sipa: I'd still feel better using address there (just to keep that limited property), but ::shrugs::
1338 2012-03-22 21:25:12 <jrmithdobbs> oh, I understand why we use it now, but is it really necessary? There's the size issue but all of the other arguments for it don't really apply to ed25519
1339 2012-03-22 21:25:26 <andytoshi> jrmithdobbs: do you have a link to nacl?
1340 2012-03-22 21:25:30 <jrmithdobbs> and was more satoshi being extra careful
1341 2012-03-22 21:25:31 <andytoshi> i suspect if i google it i'll get salt
1342 2012-03-22 21:25:34 <jrmithdobbs> andytoshi: nacl.cr.yp.to
1343 2012-03-22 21:25:48 <jrmithdobbs> andytoshi: ya, it's a clever but awful name
1344 2012-03-22 21:25:49 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: Size matters. A lot.
1345 2012-03-22 21:26:03 <jrmithdobbs> andytoshi: you'll actually find some stupid google scripting thing if you google, believe it or not
1346 2012-03-22 21:26:10 <gmaxwell> If it didn't I'd be insisting that the system get rid of this ecc crap and use lamport signatures. ;)
1347 2012-03-22 21:27:04 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: well, addresses are approx 32 bytes anyways, right? (refresh my memory)
1348 2012-03-22 21:27:45 <Joric> 20 bytes
1349 2012-03-22 21:28:18 <Joric> ripemd160((sha256^2(65-byte pubkey)))
1350 2012-03-22 21:29:46 <luke-jr> https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42980
1351 2012-03-22 21:30:04 <jrmithdobbs> so it's a 12 bytes difference between that and a ed25519 pubkey
1352 2012-03-22 21:30:48 <luke-jr> NaCL ftl
1353 2012-03-22 21:30:52 <luke-jr> NaCL is non-free
1354 2012-03-22 21:32:43 <andytoshi> luke-jr: i can't find any licensing info on NaCL's
1355 2012-03-22 21:32:46 <andytoshi> page
1356 2012-03-22 21:32:50 <jrmithdobbs> pub domain
1357 2012-03-22 21:33:38 <luke-jr> andytoshi: there's like 50 different licenses used in it
1358 2012-03-22 21:33:52 <andytoshi> that's the impression i get luke-jr
1359 2012-03-22 21:34:11 <andytoshi> if it's not explicitly pub-domain'd, coming out of the US i wouldn't touch it
1360 2012-03-22 21:34:19 <andytoshi> everyone who's name is on that page could sue us
1361 2012-03-22 21:34:24 <jrmithdobbs> it is and it's mostly not from the US
1362 2012-03-22 21:34:27 <luke-jr> including one that forbids distribution with a fee, one that only allows redistribution (ie, no modification), another than only allows use, etc
1363 2012-03-22 21:34:39 <andytoshi> can either of you cite stuff? :P
1364 2012-03-22 21:34:43 <jrmithdobbs> if there's one person in the US that understands how to correctly put something in the pub domain that is not a lawyer
1365 2012-03-22 21:34:46 <jrmithdobbs> it's djb
1366 2012-03-22 21:34:51 <jrmithdobbs> he's sued over it often enough
1367 2012-03-22 21:35:11 <andytoshi> if it were CC0, i'd be happy
1368 2012-03-22 21:35:21 <luke-jr> Copyright (C) 1993 C.W. Sandmann
1369 2012-03-22 21:35:23 <luke-jr> This file may be freely distributed as long as the author's name remains.
1370 2012-03-22 21:35:26 <luke-jr> *end of license*
1371 2012-03-22 21:35:33 <jrmithdobbs> andytoshi: my source is the landing page on nacl.cr.yp.to
1372 2012-03-22 21:35:45 <jrmithdobbs> The core NaCl development team consists of Daniel J. Bernstein (University of Illinois at Chicago), Tanja Lange (Technische Universiteit Eindhoven), and Peter Schwabe (Academia Sinica).
1373 2012-03-22 21:35:51 <luke-jr> (C) Copyright 1992 Eric Backus \n This software may be used freely so long as this copyright notice is left intact.  There is no warrantee on this software. *end of license*
1374 2012-03-22 21:35:56 <jrmithdobbs> NaCl was initiated under the CACE (Computer Aided Cryptography Engineering) project funded by the European Commission's Seventh Framework Programme (FP7), contract number ICT-2008-216499, running from 2008 through 2010. CACE activities were organized into several Work Packages (WPs); NaCl was the main task of WP2, "Accelerating Secure Networking". Work on NaCl at Technische Universiteit Eindhoven between 2008 and 2010 was sponsored by CACE.
1375 2012-03-22 21:36:24 <jrmithdobbs> also, djb's grant money is from NSF funded by fed gov so it *has* to be made free to the public
1376 2012-03-22 21:36:24 <luke-jr> Copyright (C) 1991 DJ Delorie \n All rights reserved. Redistribution and use in source and binary forms is permitted provided that the above copyright notice and following paragraph are duplicated in all such forms. This file is distributed WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. *end of license*
1377 2012-03-22 21:36:44 <andytoshi> i know DJ personally, i can work wit that one
1378 2012-03-22 21:36:55 <luke-jr> andytoshi: ask him to license his part freely plz
1379 2012-03-22 21:37:22 <andytoshi> would that do any good if there's still 20 other people to contact about the rest?
1380 2012-03-22 21:37:28 <luke-jr> I have no doubt the majority is free, but I'm not going to touch it with any non-free bits
1381 2012-03-22 21:37:33 Ahimoth has quit ()
1382 2012-03-22 21:37:39 <luke-jr> andytoshi: contact, or remove their parts
1383 2012-03-22 21:37:41 <jrmithdobbs> andytoshi: it explicitly says somewhere on the site that it's in the public domain
1384 2012-03-22 21:37:57 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: they can't public-domain others' works
1385 2012-03-22 21:38:08 <jrmithdobbs> andytoshi: scroll all the way down here: http://nacl.cr.yp.to/features.html
1386 2012-03-22 21:38:25 <sipa> luke-jr: have an ECC gpg key already?
1387 2012-03-22 21:38:36 <luke-jr> sipa: not making one unless I know it will work on other gpgs
1388 2012-03-22 21:38:46 <sipa> it won't
1389 2012-03-22 21:39:02 <sipa> most distro's are still on gpg 1
1390 2012-03-22 21:39:16 <andytoshi> i'll look into how much DJ could release when i get a chance
1391 2012-03-22 21:39:21 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: tell gnu to stop forcing it's projects to gpl3 and that might change ;p
1392 2012-03-22 21:39:22 <andytoshi> and bug him if it seems worthwhile
1393 2012-03-22 21:39:43 <andytoshi> but i only know him because i am a dev on the gEDA project, not through any real-life friendship or anything
1394 2012-03-22 21:39:49 splatster has joined
1395 2012-03-22 21:40:00 <andytoshi> and he gets pretty nervous about touching licensing issues
1396 2012-03-22 21:40:29 <luke-jr> crap, my genkey died when I crashed
1397 2012-03-22 21:40:40 <luke-jr> sipa: what? really?
1398 2012-03-22 21:40:51 <luke-jr> doesn't KDE *require* gpg2 now?
1399 2012-03-22 21:40:55 <sipa> gpg1 and gpg2 are quite separate projects it seems
1400 2012-03-22 21:41:50 darksk1ez has joined
1401 2012-03-22 21:41:55 <sipa> ah, ubuntu does have a gpg2 package
1402 2012-03-22 21:42:18 darksk1ez has quit (Client Quit)
1403 2012-03-22 21:42:35 <andytoshi> luke, i can't find DJ's name anywhere on NaCL's page, or the sources
1404 2012-03-22 21:42:40 <sipa> which does not include ECC it seems
1405 2012-03-22 21:42:41 <andytoshi> where did you get that copyright notice?
1406 2012-03-22 21:43:13 <jrmithdobbs> andytoshi: anyways, luke is just fear mongering as usual, they got explicit permission to public domain all of it. that was the entire point that CACE was trying to solve with funding it.
1407 2012-03-22 21:43:33 <jrmithdobbs> andytoshi: there's some artifacts left in a couple source files but it has all been explicitly public domain'ed
1408 2012-03-22 21:44:36 <luke-jr> andytoshi: /usr/portage/licenses/NEWLIB
1409 2012-03-22 21:44:48 <jrmithdobbs> andytoshi: you know that djb owns yp.to right? and i showed you a moment ago on the site where his name was on the main introduction page
1410 2012-03-22 21:45:49 <andytoshi> yeah, i can see 'public domain' in a few places, and no other licenses anywhere
1411 2012-03-22 21:45:54 <sipa> pub   521E/D5FB5805  created: 2012-03-22  expires: never       usage: C
1412 2012-03-22 21:45:57 <sipa> luke-jr: ^
1413 2012-03-22 21:45:59 <andytoshi> i do believe you, but copyright is serious business these days
1414 2012-03-22 21:46:02 <jrmithdobbs> andytoshi: ya, just luke fear mongering, like i said
1415 2012-03-22 21:46:27 <andytoshi> if luke has room to claim non-free, there is certainly a lawyer who'll try it
1416 2012-03-22 21:46:39 <andytoshi> and there is no LICENSE or COPYING file on the source
1417 2012-03-22 21:46:50 <jrmithdobbs> andytoshi: luke claims that catholics aren't christians too so I reject your premise ;p
1418 2012-03-22 21:47:23 <BlueMatt> ...
1419 2012-03-22 21:48:12 Ahimoth has joined
1420 2012-03-22 21:51:59 iocor has joined
1421 2012-03-22 21:53:44 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1422 2012-03-22 21:53:52 <luke-jr> I don't see NaCL's websites explaining licensing *at all*
1423 2012-03-22 21:54:49 <andytoshi> that is my concern - jrmithdobbs and djb can assure me until they're blue in the face, but i need something in writing, on all the sources
1424 2012-03-22 21:55:16 <t7> what are you doing with nacl?
1425 2012-03-22 21:55:26 <t7> also you should use the llvm nacl :)
1426 2012-03-22 21:55:29 <sipa> t7: putting it on my fries
1427 2012-03-22 21:55:42 <jrmithdobbs> andytoshi: if you have contact with djb it'd be cool if you'd bring it up/point it out to him and ask him to scrub the erroneous files
1428 2012-03-22 21:55:56 <jrmithdobbs> andytoshi: and add a copying file that explicitly says "All of this code is in the public domain."
1429 2012-03-22 21:55:57 <t7> sounds fatty
1430 2012-03-22 21:56:08 <andytoshi> nope, i only have contact with djd ;)
1431 2012-03-22 21:56:14 <jrmithdobbs> ah
1432 2012-03-22 21:56:35 <sipa> i copied the message from the website to the source dir, saying "Fetched from site [url] on [date]: public domain bla bla"
1433 2012-03-22 21:56:46 <jrmithdobbs> andytoshi: like I said, I'm 99.999% sure that anything saying something besides public domain is a missed scrubbing on import
1434 2012-03-22 21:57:03 <luke-jr> t7: llvm nacl doesn't require newlib?
1435 2012-03-22 21:57:15 <andytoshi> nothing says anything beside public domain - my concern is that it doesn't even say public domain
1436 2012-03-22 21:57:23 <andytoshi> and in CA/US/EUR, that means default copyright
1437 2012-03-22 21:57:25 <andytoshi> forever
1438 2012-03-22 21:57:31 <jrmithdobbs> andytoshi: it does at the distribution point
1439 2012-03-22 21:57:35 <t7> errr duno
1440 2012-03-22 21:57:46 <jrmithdobbs> andytoshi: Bottom of the page: http://nacl.cr.yp.to/features.html
1441 2012-03-22 21:57:54 <luke-jr> andytoshi: in Germany, even saying "public domain" is worthless
1442 2012-03-22 21:57:58 <luke-jr> since PD isn't legal there
1443 2012-03-22 21:58:08 <andytoshi> what a world
1444 2012-03-22 21:58:57 <andytoshi> i had a similar discussion (i think with luke) about my project, RamseyScript
1445 2012-03-22 21:59:07 <andytoshi> my solution was to put a CC0 note at the top of -every- source file
1446 2012-03-22 21:59:09 <andytoshi> https://github.com/apoelstra/RamseyScript
1447 2012-03-22 21:59:33 <jrmithdobbs> andytoshi: iirc there's case law that says that's unnecessary in every jurisdiction that matters
1448 2012-03-22 21:59:43 <jrmithdobbs> why everyone stopped doing it
1449 2012-03-22 22:00:34 triptyl has joined
1450 2012-03-22 22:01:16 <luke-jr> andytoshi: newlib-1.18.0.tar.gz/COPYING.NEWLIB
1451 2012-03-22 22:01:42 <andytoshi> newlib is a full libc, no?
1452 2012-03-22 22:01:45 <andytoshi> is it related to NaCL?
1453 2012-03-22 22:02:02 <BlueMatt> sipa: isnt that pom frits to you?
1454 2012-03-22 22:02:24 <sipa> BlueMatt: lol
1455 2012-03-22 22:03:03 <luke-jr> andytoshi: newlib is part of NaCL
1456 2012-03-22 22:03:06 <sipa> BlueMatt: we call it "frieten", derived from the french word "pommes frites" (fried potatoes)
1457 2012-03-22 22:03:19 <BlueMatt> ah, ok
1458 2012-03-22 22:03:21 <BlueMatt> still...not fries
1459 2012-03-22 22:03:53 <t7> freedom fries?
1460 2012-03-22 22:03:53 <sipa> BlueMatt: since the common language is english here, i thought translating might be appreciated
1461 2012-03-22 22:04:14 <BlueMatt> t7: heh
1462 2012-03-22 22:04:24 <sipa> btw, in US english they're called french fries, but they're belgian really ;)
1463 2012-03-22 22:04:31 <BlueMatt> knew that was coming
1464 2012-03-22 22:04:39 <sipa> wow, you knew!
1465 2012-03-22 22:04:52 <BlueMatt> I knew that there are regions of france that say the opposite ;)
1466 2012-03-22 22:04:55 <t7> there called chips over 'ere
1467 2012-03-22 22:05:10 <BlueMatt> and that belgians disagree...
1468 2012-03-22 22:05:13 <t7> cawd*
1469 2012-03-22 22:05:15 <sipa> haha
1470 2012-03-22 22:05:22 <BlueMatt> heh
1471 2012-03-22 22:06:18 <gmaxwell> next he's going to be pushing stroopwafel on us.
1472 2012-03-22 22:06:43 <andytoshi> luke-jr: newlib isn't mentioned anywhere on the NaCL page
1473 2012-03-22 22:06:43 <sipa> hell no
1474 2012-03-22 22:06:53 <andytoshi> and i know it's much bigger than just crypto
1475 2012-03-22 22:07:06 <andytoshi> it's used by the rockbox project, which does MP3 player firmware
1476 2012-03-22 22:07:23 <t7> is that still going?
1477 2012-03-22 22:07:31 <t7> i used to run ipod linux on my ipod
1478 2012-03-22 22:07:41 <t7> i ported a new emulator
1479 2012-03-22 22:07:44 <t7> nes*
1480 2012-03-22 22:08:02 <BlueMatt> oh the simple days of ipod linux...
1481 2012-03-22 22:08:15 <andytoshi> ipodlinux is -not- still going iirc
1482 2012-03-22 22:08:16 <BlueMatt> the iphone kinda ruined all that...
1483 2012-03-22 22:08:18 <t7> 1 hour battery life :)
1484 2012-03-22 22:08:29 <andytoshi> because they were competing with rockbox for developers, and apple kept attacking them
1485 2012-03-22 22:08:31 <luke-jr> andytoshi: according to http://functionsource.com/post/nacl-has-native-client-been-sweet-of-too-salty it can be replaced with glibc, but not supported
1486 2012-03-22 22:08:57 <andytoshi> i remember, they encrypted the firmware on gen-5 and up (nano gen-2) just to keep the ipodlinux people out
1487 2012-03-22 22:09:14 <andytoshi> that's why the nano's after that generation were slow as fuck and crashed all the time
1488 2012-03-22 22:09:16 <BlueMatt> apple really, really hates jailbreakers/ipodlinuxers/rockboxers/etc
1489 2012-03-22 22:09:27 <andytoshi> but i guess if you hate some segment of your market that much
1490 2012-03-22 22:09:29 <TheSeven> andytoshi: gen-6 and up to be correct
1491 2012-03-22 22:09:32 <andytoshi> hurting everyone is justifiable
1492 2012-03-22 22:09:34 denisx has joined
1493 2012-03-22 22:09:41 <andytoshi> i'm not a business nerd, i dunne
1494 2012-03-22 22:09:46 <BlueMatt> only if you are apple...
1495 2012-03-22 22:09:55 <BlueMatt> because they dont have to play by the rules ;)
1496 2012-03-22 22:09:56 <TheSeven> and no, the nanos aren't unstable at all
1497 2012-03-22 22:10:05 <TheSeven> only the 6th gen is, and that has been fixed by now
1498 2012-03-22 22:10:19 <andytoshi> i stopped touching anything apple after that fiasco
1499 2012-03-22 22:10:36 * TheSeven actually attacked them back and reverse engineered that crap :P
1500 2012-03-22 22:10:46 <andytoshi> oh, thanks :)
1501 2012-03-22 22:10:51 <andytoshi> i tried for a few days, then stopped bothering
1502 2012-03-22 22:11:07 <TheSeven> took us more than a year to break into the nano 2g
1503 2012-03-22 22:11:26 <TheSeven> but then we found an exploit on that one that worked on several other apple devices as well :P
1504 2012-03-22 22:12:09 agricocb has joined
1505 2012-03-22 22:12:22 <nanotube> all that effort and time spent making crapple devices more usable, and thus potentially more attractive to potential buyers, seems like it would have been better spent making competitor devices better instead :)
1506 2012-03-22 22:12:33 <TheSeven> they did their crypto part well, but used only symmetric stuff, and we were able to attack some highlevel code with a buffer overflow exploit and use that to sign our own firmware
1507 2012-03-22 22:12:46 <TheSeven> from that point on, they just had no way of keeping us out any more :)
1508 2012-03-22 22:13:10 <andytoshi> nanotube: the point is to tell apple, 'fuck you', i think
1509 2012-03-22 22:13:18 <TheSeven> nanotube: sadly most of their competitors aren't any better regarding that
1510 2012-03-22 22:13:21 <sipa> TheSeven: nice
1511 2012-03-22 22:13:46 <BlueMatt> TheSeven: they are getting better
1512 2012-03-22 22:13:47 <nanotube> TheSeven: all you need is /one/ that is better.
1513 2012-03-22 22:13:50 <BlueMatt> not apple, the others are
1514 2012-03-22 22:13:51 <andytoshi> TheSeven: cowon makes products that support OGG and FLAC out of the box
1515 2012-03-22 22:14:00 <TheSeven> (once we had a signed bootloader, we could just use that to sign whatever else, and they can't change the key)
1516 2012-03-22 22:14:04 <andytoshi> they don't encrypt their firmware, but all their datasheets are off in korea
1517 2012-03-22 22:14:10 <andytoshi> and not published much of anywhere
1518 2012-03-22 22:14:16 <t7> do the google nexus phone let you root them ?
1519 2012-03-22 22:14:20 <BlueMatt> yea
1520 2012-03-22 22:14:29 <nanotube> andytoshi: yes, there's the fun in it, true :) and good work TheSeven ;), just seems that if your goal is to stick it to apple, there are more effective avenues :)
1521 2012-03-22 22:14:33 <TheSeven> andytoshi: having had lots of issues with the flash data format on the cowon d2
1522 2012-03-22 22:14:48 <BlueMatt> a lot of android mfgs have come out in the past few months and unlocked bootloaders because people complained enough
1523 2012-03-22 22:15:00 <BlueMatt> s/last few months/last like 6 months/
1524 2012-03-22 22:15:31 <t7> BlueMatt which others?
1525 2012-03-22 22:15:36 <mod6> there are tons of vids on youtube on how to root your android and install cyanogenmod for example.
1526 2012-03-22 22:15:48 * TheSeven 's goal was to use be able to use this awesome hardware with awesome software, back when most competitors still produced those little nasty user-unfriendly thumbdrive-style MP3 players
1527 2012-03-22 22:15:52 <t7> yeah but they can patch exploitable firmwares
1528 2012-03-22 22:16:00 <andytoshi> TheSeven: i had those, but i thought they were my fault
1529 2012-03-22 22:16:09 <andytoshi> because i left the player in the rain all the time
1530 2012-03-22 22:16:12 <BlueMatt> t7: a ton of them
1531 2012-03-22 22:16:18 <BlueMatt> t7: htc, iirc moto
1532 2012-03-22 22:16:25 <BlueMatt> asus did a few models
1533 2012-03-22 22:16:30 <andytoshi> and on the S9, but that was because i was guessing SDCFG parameters to try and overwrite the firmware
1534 2012-03-22 22:16:33 <BlueMatt> samsungs are often unlocked by default
1535 2012-03-22 22:16:39 comboy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1536 2012-03-22 22:16:46 <BlueMatt> (I know mine is unlocked, just shows a warning icon if you use non-signed code)
1537 2012-03-22 22:16:47 comboy has joined
1538 2012-03-22 22:16:51 <TheSeven> didn't samsung unlock their bootloaders from the very beginning?
1539 2012-03-22 22:16:52 <t7> i thought Samsung were really anti rooting
1540 2012-03-22 22:17:00 <BlueMatt> they arent on mine
1541 2012-03-22 22:17:06 <BlueMatt> TheSeven: afaik, yea for the most part
1542 2012-03-22 22:17:31 <BlueMatt> samsung doesnt get close to helping rooters, but they dont bother trying to stop them either
1543 2012-03-22 22:17:40 mcorlett has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1544 2012-03-22 22:17:46 * BlueMatt is downloading a new rom right now...
1545 2012-03-22 22:17:58 paraipan has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1546 2012-03-22 22:18:14 <mod6> sweet. having a rooted android is the best way to go if you run the bitcoin client for android anyway.  otherwise you can't back up the wallet.dat.
1547 2012-03-22 22:18:16 parus has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1548 2012-03-22 22:18:21 <rebroad> in debug.log, I'm seeing lines saying "ERROR: ProcessBlock() : already have block...." - is this really an ERROR? or just info?
1549 2012-03-22 22:18:29 <mod6> and or torbot for android.
1550 2012-03-22 22:18:35 <BlueMatt> mod6: except it makes it easier for other apps to steal your wallet...
1551 2012-03-22 22:18:39 <TheSeven> when having a warranty case with my galaxy s2 I actually asked a samsung support guy whether there would be another sane method to just back up the contents of my phone before doing a factory reset to rule out that some settings are at fault (even though it was pretty clearly hardware damage)
1552 2012-03-22 22:18:42 <mod6> fair enough BlueMatt.
1553 2012-03-22 22:18:56 <t7> someone should release an arch linux phone
1554 2012-03-22 22:19:02 parus has joined
1555 2012-03-22 22:19:05 <TheSeven> and he also said that the only way to really backup and android phone is rooting it
1556 2012-03-22 22:19:13 <TheSeven> but they wouldn't accept the warranty case if I rooted it
1557 2012-03-22 22:19:22 <TheSeven> so I would just have to lose my data, no way around that
1558 2012-03-22 22:19:23 <rebroad> t7? arch linux? you don't mean arm linux do you?
1559 2012-03-22 22:19:31 <t7> allthough i would probably get laid even less when people see me using a terminal on my phone
1560 2012-03-22 22:19:32 <BlueMatt> yea, I dont think any mfgs accept warranties if you've rooted
1561 2012-03-22 22:19:34 <helo> i'm kind of interested in the ubuntu phone
1562 2012-03-22 22:19:44 Mr-saya1 has quit ()
1563 2012-03-22 22:19:47 <BlueMatt> t7: I use a terminal on my phone all the time!
1564 2012-03-22 22:19:55 <TheSeven> BlueMatt: I'm curious if they can detect a root-backup-unroot sequence though
1565 2012-03-22 22:20:06 <mod6> haha, t7 i always irc from my android. people look over and are like "wtf man."
1566 2012-03-22 22:20:08 <BlueMatt> on samsungs they keep a count of non-signed kernel flashes
1567 2012-03-22 22:20:11 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1568 2012-03-22 22:20:11 * pusle checks BlueMatts trash for condoms :P
1569 2012-03-22 22:20:17 <BlueMatt> TheSeven: so, on my specific galaxy s ii, yea
1570 2012-03-22 22:20:22 <helo> TheSeven: if done correctly, they can't
1571 2012-03-22 22:20:25 <TheSeven> that's what I expected
1572 2012-03-22 22:20:39 <andytoshi> rebroad: it's not really an ERROR, but on the code level it is
1573 2012-03-22 22:20:49 <andytoshi> in that we call the verify function, and it returns a failure code
1574 2012-03-22 22:20:50 <BlueMatt> when I boot into the flash mode, it says like flash count: XXX
1575 2012-03-22 22:20:52 <helo> TheSeven: i.e. checksums will match
1576 2012-03-22 22:21:13 <BlueMatt> TheSeven: though I can flash roms (with default kernels) without getting the count incremented
1577 2012-03-22 22:21:39 erle- has left ()
1578 2012-03-22 22:22:51 <TheSeven> how?
1579 2012-03-22 22:23:00 <BlueMatt> it just doesnt care if the kernel is signed
1580 2012-03-22 22:23:00 <sipa> mod6: purposes of my phone: 1) ssh client 2) wikipedia browser 3) alarm 4) clock
1581 2012-03-22 22:23:13 <BlueMatt> sipa: so...you never call/text anyone???
1582 2012-03-22 22:23:20 <sipa> BlueMatt: hardly
1583 2012-03-22 22:23:31 <mod6> sipa: good call. :)
1584 2012-03-22 22:23:35 <BlueMatt> though I do like how many beta-ics roms samsung has been leaking for my phone, they still havent released ics officially...
1585 2012-03-22 22:23:38 <sipa> people call me though
1586 2012-03-22 22:24:35 <BlueMatt> sipa: but, yea mine is something like 1) google reader 2) wikipedia 3) irc client 4) text/calls 5) clock 6)alarm
1587 2012-03-22 22:24:39 <t7> BlueMatt what you got?
1588 2012-03-22 22:24:41 <mod6> I have to say, when i travel for business google maps + gps has saved me a ton of times.
1589 2012-03-22 22:24:59 <BlueMatt> t7: samsung galaxy s ii epic 4g touch (sprint unlimited 4g wimiax :) )
1590 2012-03-22 22:25:13 <BlueMatt> I average like 2-4g/mo in data :)
1591 2012-03-22 22:25:34 <sipa> BlueMatt: probably the "being reachable" aspect is more important than actually doing/receiving calls
1592 2012-03-22 22:25:54 <BlueMatt> well, ok yea I guess its the same here
1593 2012-03-22 22:26:24 <rebroad> hmmm... how come more than one node sends me the same block? did I ask them both for it? was my node being impatient..?
1594 2012-03-22 22:26:26 ovidiusoft has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1595 2012-03-22 22:26:41 <sipa> rebroad: shouldn't happen
1596 2012-03-22 22:26:46 <BlueMatt> if its the lastest one -> because nodes announce those when they come in if you havent announced it
1597 2012-03-22 22:27:02 <BlueMatt> so if they come in at the exact same time before youve gotten a chance to dl/announce, it may happen
1598 2012-03-22 22:27:05 <sipa> BlueMatt: still, you get multiple announcements, but only getdata one
1599 2012-03-22 22:27:21 <BlueMatt> rebroad: you mean block inv or block?
1600 2012-03-22 22:27:52 <t7> i have a iphone 4s at the moment but i have to give it back when i leave my job, i think il get the galaxy nexus
1601 2012-03-22 22:27:53 Joric_ has joined
1602 2012-03-22 22:28:04 <rebroad> 22/03/12 22:25:33 received block 000000000000063eaa58
1603 2012-03-22 22:28:04 <rebroad> 22/03/12 22:25:33 ERROR: ProcessBlock() : already have block 153179 000000000000063eaa58
1604 2012-03-22 22:28:15 <rebroad> getting quite a few of those..
1605 2012-03-22 22:28:20 <BlueMatt> t7: yea, good choice, though I dont know, its gonna be pretty out of date pretty damn quick...
1606 2012-03-22 22:28:29 <BlueMatt> rebroad: ok, yea that shouldnt happen
1607 2012-03-22 22:28:34 <BlueMatt> the remote node is being a dick?
1608 2012-03-22 22:28:44 <t7> android 4 :O
1609 2012-03-22 22:28:53 <rebroad> should it increase its misbehaving score then?
1610 2012-03-22 22:28:58 <BlueMatt> t7: most recent phones have ics roms already
1611 2012-03-22 22:28:59 cande has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
1612 2012-03-22 22:29:10 <BlueMatt> rebroad: meh, its not much of a dos...
1613 2012-03-22 22:29:24 <BlueMatt> but, probably
1614 2012-03-22 22:29:38 <gmaxwell> the bigger question is why its happening.
1615 2012-03-22 22:29:41 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1616 2012-03-22 22:29:55 <mod6> what version are you running rebroad? or are you running HEAD?
1617 2012-03-22 22:29:55 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: modified remote node that is being a dick?
1618 2012-03-22 22:30:32 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: But why? no reason for that— makes it seem unlikely to me.
1619 2012-03-22 22:30:42 <BlueMatt> probably, but...
1620 2012-03-22 22:30:50 <andytoshi> rebroad: when you say "quite a few", do you mean 4-5? 10-20? a few hundred?
1621 2012-03-22 22:30:51 <sipa> or modified own code
1622 2012-03-22 22:30:52 <rebroad> 0.6.0.4-beta
1623 2012-03-22 22:30:58 <sipa> that sends more than one getdata? ;)
1624 2012-03-22 22:30:59 <BlueMatt> oh, we should print remote node client/version on connect
1625 2012-03-22 22:31:02 <BlueMatt> or do we?
1626 2012-03-22 22:31:12 <sipa> BlueMatt: version yes, client no
1627 2012-03-22 22:31:19 <BlueMatt> ok, we should
1628 2012-03-22 22:31:26 paraipan has joined
1629 2012-03-22 22:31:38 <andytoshi> there is concern that specific clients would get attacked
1630 2012-03-22 22:31:49 <andytoshi> it makes it easier for attackers to find targets if there is a known exploit
1631 2012-03-22 22:31:49 <BlueMatt> if we printed the info in debug.log?
1632 2012-03-22 22:32:00 <BlueMatt> its already out there, we are just printing it
1633 2012-03-22 22:32:05 <BlueMatt> thats not helpful to attackers
1634 2012-03-22 22:32:05 <andytoshi> if the remote node told us its name, we could attack it
1635 2012-03-22 22:32:24 <andytoshi> oh, i didn't realize it was already out there
1636 2012-03-22 22:32:26 <sipa> oh come on, i already publish that information on http://bitcoin.sipa.be/seeds.txt
1637 2012-03-22 22:32:27 <BlueMatt> I thought it did announce it?
1638 2012-03-22 22:33:03 <sipa> yes
1639 2012-03-22 22:33:03 <rebroad> andytoshi, hardly any point in having it if it's not used....
1640 2012-03-22 22:33:16 <mod6> nice sipa
1641 2012-03-22 22:33:27 pusle has quit ()
1642 2012-03-22 22:33:27 TD has joined
1643 2012-03-22 22:33:52 <rebroad> andytoshi, 1078
1644 2012-03-22 22:33:52 TD has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1645 2012-03-22 22:34:05 <rebroad> (in answer to your question)
1646 2012-03-22 22:34:11 TD has joined
1647 2012-03-22 22:35:04 <rebroad> (about how many occuranced of "already have" I've got so far)
1648 2012-03-22 22:35:22 <BlueMatt> TD: someone was asking earlier about a tx showing up in multibit as unspendable despite its fairly clear spendability, any clues?
1649 2012-03-22 22:35:35 <TD> "unspendable" ?
1650 2012-03-22 22:35:47 <BlueMatt> MaxSan1: ^
1651 2012-03-22 22:35:53 <BlueMatt> <MaxSan1> that 389.99 came through but is marked as "not spendable"
1652 2012-03-22 22:35:54 <andytoshi> i see 6399 in mine, so it's not too unusual..
1653 2012-03-22 22:36:04 <andytoshi> i think there's 3 full blockchain downloads in my log
1654 2012-03-22 22:36:17 <andytoshi> no, like 6
1655 2012-03-22 22:36:28 <BlueMatt> TD: I was just wondering if bitcoinj returns "not spendable" in some cases...
1656 2012-03-22 22:36:29 <andytoshi> because i was playing with sipa's fix for the block 170059 bug
1657 2012-03-22 22:36:37 <TD> if there are no confirmations
1658 2012-03-22 22:36:43 <andytoshi> but it is weird
1659 2012-03-22 22:36:48 <BlueMatt> its pretty deep in the chain
1660 2012-03-22 22:37:04 <t7> i have an idea for P2P $ -> BTC  exchange
1661 2012-03-22 22:37:17 <BlueMatt> another one?
1662 2012-03-22 22:37:38 <t7> yeah
1663 2012-03-22 22:37:38 <andytoshi> (btw, in net.cpp:506, we publish the client name)
1664 2012-03-22 22:38:00 <t7> and the maximum risk is %n or m BTC
1665 2012-03-22 22:38:04 <t7> where n and m is small
1666 2012-03-22 22:38:52 <t7> you do a series of transactions at max(%n, m BTC/$) back and forth until all the money is sent
1667 2012-03-22 22:39:11 <t7> it would work great with dwolla because its free to send money under $10
1668 2012-03-22 22:39:23 cdecker has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1669 2012-03-22 22:39:27 <t7> is that an old idea?
1670 2012-03-22 22:40:50 <BlueMatt> thats not a full exchange, thats a method of conducting trades...
1671 2012-03-22 22:41:05 <BlueMatt> not a bad one, but kinda a pita...
1672 2012-03-22 22:41:15 <BlueMatt> maybe tell people on #bitcoin-otc to start doing that...
1673 2012-03-22 22:41:27 <t7> yeah but automate it
1674 2012-03-22 22:41:43 <t7> then you can just scan the p2p net for people requesting what you need
1675 2012-03-22 22:42:03 <BlueMatt> <t7> then you can just scan the p2p net for people requesting what you need <-- uh...what?
1676 2012-03-22 22:42:05 <t7> the money sent each step will go up
1677 2012-03-22 22:42:09 <upb> and yes that is an old idea
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1680 2012-03-22 22:42:23 <andytoshi> in the end, you can't really do cash transactions in a P2P way
1681 2012-03-22 22:42:32 <t7> dwolla has an api
1682 2012-03-22 22:42:32 <andytoshi> because ordinary people can't push money into their computers
1683 2012-03-22 22:42:43 <t7> there must be others
1684 2012-03-22 22:42:55 <andytoshi> so it's not p2p, but requires dwolla accounts
1685 2012-03-22 22:43:05 <andytoshi> but i suppose if we had a standard API for such services
1686 2012-03-22 22:43:10 <BlueMatt> I like the "you can just scan the p2p net" yes, because setting up a p2p net that is secure, and that is hard to attack is no big deal...
1687 2012-03-22 22:43:11 <andytoshi> that'd be as p2p as can be
1688 2012-03-22 22:43:30 <BlueMatt> and that people publish what they want and can sell easily and such...
1689 2012-03-22 22:43:30 <t7> BlueMatt it doesnt need to be secure
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1693 2012-03-22 22:43:55 <andytoshi> t7: it does need to be secure
1694 2012-03-22 22:44:02 <andytoshi> any exploitability would be taken up by bots
1695 2012-03-22 22:44:12 <BlueMatt> and people running bots which offer things just to get the small %n/m on a minutely basis?
1696 2012-03-22 22:44:18 <MaxSan1> BlueMatt
1697 2012-03-22 22:44:23 <MaxSan1> just to let you know that 0.01 i sent
1698 2012-03-22 22:44:25 <MaxSan1> has confirmed
1699 2012-03-22 22:44:30 <MaxSan1> and is spendable to the same address
1700 2012-03-22 22:44:32 <t7> yeah but 1 cent of a few people isnt worth it
1701 2012-03-22 22:44:35 <MaxSan1> so im thinking it may be a bug in the client
1702 2012-03-22 22:44:38 <BlueMatt> did you send it from the same address?
1703 2012-03-22 22:44:57 <MaxSan1> i sent it from my regular to that address that has the 399
1704 2012-03-22 22:45:00 <MaxSan1> 389 or w/e
1705 2012-03-22 22:45:05 <BlueMatt> t7: if it comes into use, 1 cent every minute is worth setting up...
1706 2012-03-22 22:45:32 <andytoshi> even if security wasn't a problem, i don't think dwolla would like it
1707 2012-03-22 22:45:32 <BlueMatt> MaxSan1: well its either a bug in multibit, or the library it uses (which is developed by TD )
1708 2012-03-22 22:45:42 <andytoshi> if we were tranking their network with <$10 transactions
1709 2012-03-22 22:45:44 <t7> yeah but you could only do it a few times before the network transmit x amount of (hes a fraud) packets
1710 2012-03-22 22:45:44 <BlueMatt> they'd hate it
1711 2012-03-22 22:45:45 <andytoshi> to a swarm
1712 2012-03-22 22:46:01 <BlueMatt> t7: and now you have to make that secure...
1713 2012-03-22 22:46:03 <TD> i'm not sure then
1714 2012-03-22 22:46:13 <TD> rescanning the chain may help
1715 2012-03-22 22:46:34 <andytoshi> t7: you could setup a p2p cryptocurrency exchange
1716 2012-03-22 22:46:41 <andytoshi> between btc and litecoin, for example
1717 2012-03-22 22:46:42 <MaxSan1> aslongs my coins safe im happy
1718 2012-03-22 22:46:47 <MaxSan1> il let him know when hes back
1719 2012-03-22 22:46:48 <andytoshi> and that'd let you play with security infrastructure
1720 2012-03-22 22:46:51 <MaxSan1> thanks for the help guys
1721 2012-03-22 22:46:51 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1722 2012-03-22 22:47:05 <andytoshi> MaxSan1: np, good to hear your coins are safe!
1723 2012-03-22 22:47:36 <t7> the transfer rate would be really slow on bitcoin though, you could only do one step per 10 mins
1724 2012-03-22 22:47:47 <t7> it would take ages to get upto speed
1725 2012-03-22 22:47:57 <t7> hmmmm, back to the drawing board
1726 2012-03-22 22:48:18 <andytoshi> t7: bittorrent downloads take >10 minutes, mostly
1727 2012-03-22 22:48:30 <andytoshi> if the network had its own transactionradar system
1728 2012-03-22 22:48:40 <andytoshi> that'd eliminate egregious fraud
1729 2012-03-22 22:48:53 <andytoshi> and then verification would be easy to require
1730 2012-03-22 22:49:16 <t7> lets say the maximum risk was 1 cent or 5 %
1731 2012-03-22 22:49:16 <andytoshi> these are not simple problems, but they can certainly be overcome
1732 2012-03-22 22:49:24 <andytoshi> nope
1733 2012-03-22 22:49:29 <andytoshi> risk must be ~0
1734 2012-03-22 22:49:30 <t7> thats like 20 steps before i start increasing
1735 2012-03-22 22:49:53 <t7> 4 hours to speed up
1736 2012-03-22 22:50:05 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1737 2012-03-22 22:50:08 <upb> so
1738 2012-03-22 22:50:34 <upb> the adversary keeps following the protocol until the amount you send is big enough
1739 2012-03-22 22:51:07 <t7> upb then he has to send 95% of the value of my coins
1740 2012-03-22 22:51:13 <t7> or he gets 1 cent
1741 2012-03-22 22:51:22 etotheipi_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1742 2012-03-22 22:51:29 <t7> so i still get something
1743 2012-03-22 22:51:38 <t7> most of it
1744 2012-03-22 22:52:35 <andytoshi> t7: the central problem is, how can two people trade btc for ltc without any time at which one could renege and get everything
1745 2012-03-22 22:52:42 <andytoshi> if any such time exists, the risk is 100%
1746 2012-03-22 22:52:44 <andytoshi> else it is 0%
1747 2012-03-22 22:53:08 <andytoshi> the answer will certainly involve the contract system of each chain
1748 2012-03-22 22:53:31 <andytoshi> and is probably the sorta thing that'll seem obvious once you've got it ;)
1749 2012-03-22 22:54:54 tower has joined
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1751 2012-03-22 22:57:34 <t7> it will never work...
1752 2012-03-22 22:57:55 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1753 2012-03-22 22:58:30 <t7> might aswel keep the money in BTC anywat
1754 2012-03-22 22:58:47 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1755 2012-03-22 22:59:38 Snapman is now known as Snapman[afkers]
1756 2012-03-22 22:59:54 <luke-jr> andytoshi: no need to spend time making Bitcoin interoperate with scams better
1757 2012-03-22 23:00:19 Joric_ has joined
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1759 2012-03-22 23:00:19 Joric_ has joined
1760 2012-03-22 23:00:30 <andytoshi> well, i wasn't planning to ;) but i don't think litecoin is a scam
1761 2012-03-22 23:00:43 Joric_ has quit (Client Quit)
1762 2012-03-22 23:01:32 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1763 2012-03-22 23:02:29 <andytoshi> having said that, such a p2p exchange might be useful
1764 2012-03-22 23:02:39 <andytoshi> if, for example, online games want to have their own blockchains
1765 2012-03-22 23:02:54 <andytoshi> or corporate "points" nonsense
1766 2012-03-22 23:02:59 <rebroad> oh... SoftSetArg("-paytoscripthashtime", "1333238400"); // April 1 2012 has been removed... not waiting until 1st April then?
1767 2012-03-22 23:03:00 <t7> http://tomcumming.co.uk/ <- send me coins and watch the counter go up :)
1768 2012-03-22 23:03:58 <t7> oo since when does blaze make the html all correctly indented :)
1769 2012-03-22 23:04:19 <luke-jr> rebroad: it's a constant now.
1770 2012-03-22 23:04:20 <t7> spaces instead of tabs :|
1771 2012-03-22 23:05:54 <rebroad> luke-jr, still April 1st?
1772 2012-03-22 23:07:43 <splatster> http://blockchain.info/p2sh <- 70% of the past 1000 blocks are in support of p2sh
1773 2012-03-22 23:07:55 <BlueMatt> rebroad: locked to april 1st now
1774 2012-03-22 23:08:33 <gmaxwell> splatster: someone really needs to change that to list the p2sh _missing_ blocks.
1775 2012-03-22 23:08:45 <BlueMatt>  /nod
1776 2012-03-22 23:15:06 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
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1788 2012-03-22 23:42:37 <luke-jr> anyone want to help me debug #978
1789 2012-03-22 23:42:40 <luke-jr> probably time-sensitive
1790 2012-03-22 23:42:47 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: luke-jr opened issue 978 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/978>
1791 2012-03-22 23:43:41 semb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1792 2012-03-22 23:44:16 abracadab is now known as abracadabra
1793 2012-03-22 23:44:52 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: did you get AddToWallet in debug.log?
1794 2012-03-22 23:45:03 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: yes, see pasted portion
1795 2012-03-22 23:45:04 <BlueMatt> and did you -rescan?
1796 2012-03-22 23:45:09 <BlueMatt> oh...wtf?
1797 2012-03-22 23:45:24 <luke-jr> as I said, I don't want to fix my client, I want to find the problem :p
1798 2012-03-22 23:46:20 <rebroad> luke-jr, often my sentiment too :)
1799 2012-03-22 23:48:44 <luke-jr> oh wow
1800 2012-03-22 23:48:48 <luke-jr> Bitcoin-Qt polls for updates? -.-
1801 2012-03-22 23:49:16 <rebroad> luke-jr, it does?
1802 2012-03-22 23:49:17 <rebroad> where?
1803 2012-03-22 23:50:29 <luke-jr> TransactionTableModel
1804 2012-03-22 23:50:59 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: so it showed up?
1805 2012-03-22 23:51:05 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no
1806 2012-03-22 23:51:05 Turingi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1807 2012-03-22 23:51:13 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I'm just looking into it
1808 2012-03-22 23:51:17 <BlueMatt> also, can you stop, backup, try rescan, see if it works, then restore so you can fix it?
1809 2012-03-22 23:51:27 <sipa> i believe it will show up if you just restart
1810 2012-03-22 23:51:51 <sipa> you can test that: use backupwallet, copy to another datadir, and run another instance there
1811 2012-03-22 23:52:14 <sipa> rescan will not do anything, as the transaction is already AddToWallet'ed
1812 2012-03-22 23:52:25 <rebroad> sipa, but what would be the long term fix for luke-jr's issue?
1813 2012-03-22 23:52:36 <sipa> no idea, i don't know the gui code
1814 2012-03-22 23:52:50 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: this happens semi-often, and rescan always fixes it
1815 2012-03-22 23:53:04 <BlueMatt> :(
1816 2012-03-22 23:53:12 <rebroad> is it specific to the gui code?
1817 2012-03-22 23:53:14 <sipa> luke-jr: can you confirm that rescan is necessary?
1818 2012-03-22 23:53:15 <luke-jr> I'm building w/ debug so I can gdb it
1819 2012-03-22 23:53:26 <rebroad> luke-jr, did you run with -server?
1820 2012-03-22 23:53:27 <luke-jr> sipa: after I analyze the data structures ;)
1821 2012-03-22 23:53:30 <luke-jr> rebroad: yes
1822 2012-03-22 23:53:38 * BlueMatt always feels immense satisfaction turning on roaming data and knowing it doesnt cost extra :)
1823 2012-03-22 23:53:52 <luke-jr> I want to see what vWalletUpdated has
1824 2012-03-22 23:53:55 <sipa> luke-jr: you can check pwalletMain->mapWallet[txid]
1825 2012-03-22 23:54:00 eoss has joined
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1828 2012-03-22 23:54:18 <luke-jr> sipa: listtransactions shows it
1829 2012-03-22 23:54:26 <sipa> ok, good
1830 2012-03-22 23:54:48 <rebroad> not sure what's happened.. if it's the latest patches, but my block chain seems to be loading 100 times faster now
1831 2012-03-22 23:55:27 <rebroad> takes longer to flush blkindex.dat though...
1832 2012-03-22 23:55:54 darkee has quit (!~darkee@gateway/tor-sasl/darkee|Remote host closed the connection)
1833 2012-03-22 23:56:08 <rebroad> (if I interpret debug.log correctly)
1834 2012-03-22 23:56:17 <sipa> that's normal
1835 2012-03-22 23:56:27 <sipa> it flushes less frequently during download now
1836 2012-03-22 23:56:27 darkee has joined
1837 2012-03-22 23:56:27 <luke-jr> (gdb) printf "%d\n", pwalletMain->vWalletUpdated.empty()
1838 2012-03-22 23:56:29 <luke-jr> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
1839 2012-03-22 23:56:31 <luke-jr> -.--
1840 2012-03-22 23:56:36 <rebroad> wow.. it's taken over 90 seconds so far to quit..
1841 2012-03-22 23:57:15 <rebroad> 2.5 minutes to exit.. that's rather slow...
1842 2012-03-22 23:57:30 <sipa> you're exiting while downloading the chain?
1843 2012-03-22 23:58:05 <rebroad> sipa, yes
1844 2012-03-22 23:58:41 <sipa> in that case it's expected; but still, maybe we need a warning or something like that
1845 2012-03-22 23:58:57 <luke-jr> …
1846 2012-03-22 23:59:03 <rebroad> sipa, why is it expected please?
1847 2012-03-22 23:59:07 <luke-jr> did I do something stupid?
1848 2012-03-22 23:59:29 <rebroad> actually, ProcessBlock can sometimes takes 9 minutes.... so perhaps that ought to check for fShutdown/fRequestShutdown
1849 2012-03-22 23:59:46 <sipa> 9 minutes?
1850 2012-03-22 23:59:46 <rebroad> sorry. 9 seconds i meant
1851 2012-03-22 23:59:53 <sipa> oh, ok