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  4 2012-03-23 00:00:04 <sipa> that's just the database flushing
  5 2012-03-23 00:00:07 <rebroad> 158212 block took 8.3 seconds..
  6 2012-03-23 00:00:28 <rebroad> ah... no way to avoid flushing it I guess...
  7 2012-03-23 00:00:37 <rebroad> so if I kill -9 it, what happens to the db?
  8 2012-03-23 00:00:45 <sipa> it should survive that
  9 2012-03-23 00:00:50 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 10 2012-03-23 00:00:52 <sipa> but should is not will
 11 2012-03-23 00:01:19 <luke-jr> anyhow, I failed to recover from the segfault-within-gdb-print
 12 2012-03-23 00:01:24 <luke-jr> it shows up when the client starts now
 13 2012-03-23 00:02:10 <rebroad> wow, block 158249 took 35066ms
 14 2012-03-23 00:02:26 <rebroad> 36066ms
 15 2012-03-23 00:02:39 <luke-jr> sipa: any reason you can think of for pwalletMain->vWalletUpdated.empty() to fail? :/
 16 2012-03-23 00:02:56 <rebroad> I like the new address handling... :)
 17 2012-03-23 00:03:17 <rebroad> :q
 18 2012-03-23 00:03:22 <rebroad> oops, wrong window
 19 2012-03-23 00:03:24 <luke-jr> rebroad: ?
 20 2012-03-23 00:03:27 <sipa> emit dataChanged(index(0, Status), index(priv->size()-1, Status));
 21 2012-03-23 00:03:33 <sipa> what kind of C++ voodoo is that?
 22 2012-03-23 00:03:34 <luke-jr> my best guess atm is wallet->cs_wallet is locking
 23 2012-03-23 00:03:42 <luke-jr> sipa: it's not C++, it's Qt :P
 24 2012-03-23 00:03:59 <sipa> It's in .cpp file, thus it is C++.
 25 2012-03-23 00:04:10 <luke-jr> Qt uses .cpp for source too <.<
 26 2012-03-23 00:04:16 <sipa> huh?
 27 2012-03-23 00:04:25 <sipa> it preprocesses the files?
 28 2012-03-23 00:04:35 <luke-jr> not .cpp files. I'm not sure how the emit statement is implemented
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 30 2012-03-23 00:06:13 <sipa> probably macro stuff
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 32 2012-03-23 00:06:30 <rebroad> sipa: http://www.codingfriends.com/index.php/2010/03/04/qt-emit-a-signal/
 33 2012-03-23 00:07:22 Joric_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 34 2012-03-23 00:07:30 <rebroad> it's all new to me too, this emit stuff...
 35 2012-03-23 00:08:10 <luke-jr> LOL
 36 2012-03-23 00:08:17 <luke-jr> it's implemented by a #define emit (nothing)
 37 2012-03-23 00:08:35 <rebroad> nothing?
 38 2012-03-23 00:08:37 <luke-jr> yes
 39 2012-03-23 00:08:59 <luke-jr> IOW, you could leave it out… with this particular Qt implementation
 40 2012-03-23 00:09:02 minimoose has joined
 41 2012-03-23 00:09:08 <rebroad> is it a #pragma?
 42 2012-03-23 00:09:12 <luke-jr> no
 43 2012-03-23 00:10:24 <luke-jr> sipa: if wallet->cs_wallet is blocked, would listtransactions etc work?
 44 2012-03-23 00:10:31 <sipa> no
 45 2012-03-23 00:10:44 <sipa> RPC calls take cs_wallet lock
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 47 2012-03-23 00:10:47 <sipa> so they would block
 48 2012-03-23 00:10:49 <luke-jr> hmm
 49 2012-03-23 00:12:25 <sipa> but walletmodelstuffthing::update uses a TRY_CRITICAL_BLOCK
 50 2012-03-23 00:12:42 <sipa> so i wonder, what if update() was called exactly when cs_wallet was indeed locked
 51 2012-03-23 00:12:46 <sipa> it would be a no-op
 52 2012-03-23 00:12:50 <sipa> but would it be called again?
 53 2012-03-23 00:13:22 t7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 54 2012-03-23 00:15:58 <luke-jr> .empty() could return true before the data is correct
 55 2012-03-23 00:16:08 <luke-jr> and the .clear() afterward could wipe the new data
 56 2012-03-23 00:16:38 <luke-jr> the update itself seems to ignore transactions not in the wallet
 57 2012-03-23 00:16:47 <luke-jr> so if the data was simply not there yet, that could explain it
 58 2012-03-23 00:17:24 <luke-jr> but isn't the content of TRY_CRITICAL_BLOCK skipped if it fails to get the lock?
 59 2012-03-23 00:18:05 <sipa> yes
 60 2012-03-23 00:23:21 <luke-jr> hmmm
 61 2012-03-23 00:25:13 Snapman[afkers] is now known as Snapman
 62 2012-03-23 00:25:46 <sipa> and AddToWalletIfInvolvingMe correctly takes the cs_wallet lock
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 76 2012-03-23 00:58:40 <luke-jr> wtf?
 77 2012-03-23 00:58:46 <luke-jr> you can define methods on structs?
 78 2012-03-23 01:02:00 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 79 2012-03-23 01:03:01 <BlueMatt> that seems...wrong
 80 2012-03-23 01:03:22 triptyl has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 81 2012-03-23 01:04:35 <deoxxa> luke-jr: struct and class are pretty much identical
 82 2012-03-23 01:04:44 <deoxxa> struct has public members by default, class has private
 83 2012-03-23 01:04:47 <MagicalTux> a struct and a class is exactly the same thing internally
 84 2012-03-23 01:04:58 <deoxxa> (as long as we're talking about c++ here)
 85 2012-03-23 01:05:15 <BlueMatt> yea, makes sense, but from a linguistic pov, it still seems wrong
 86 2012-03-23 01:05:34 <BlueMatt> compu-linguistics :)
 87 2012-03-23 01:05:36 <deoxxa> class is really a specialisation of struct as far as i understand
 88 2012-03-23 01:06:10 bobke has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 89 2012-03-23 01:06:16 <deoxxa> considering they evolved from c structs
 90 2012-03-23 01:06:19 bobke has joined
 91 2012-03-23 01:10:55 <sipa> at least it's not java where enum elements are singleton classes
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 95 2012-03-23 01:14:28 <luke-jr> deoxxa: by the spec, or by G++?
 96 2012-03-23 01:14:50 SphericalCow has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 97 2012-03-23 01:14:58 <deoxxa> well, conceptually
 98 2012-03-23 01:15:06 <forrestv> is there an official currency symbol for testnet bitcoins?
 99 2012-03-23 01:15:10 <deoxxa> c++ was originally just "c with other stuff"
100 2012-03-23 01:15:28 <deoxxa> forrestv: that B with the line through it?
101 2012-03-23 01:15:31 <luke-jr> forrestv: TNB⃦? :p
102 2012-03-23 01:15:31 <sipa> forrestv: i've seen tnBTC
103 2012-03-23 01:15:40 <forrestv> i've used tBTC in p2pool
104 2012-03-23 01:15:53 <forrestv> hm
105 2012-03-23 01:15:55 <luke-jr> forrestv: the long one is tnBTC
106 2012-03-23 01:16:23 <deoxxa> ฿ is what i've seen
107 2012-03-23 01:16:28 <deoxxa> but it's for the thai baht
108 2012-03-23 01:16:31 luke-jr has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
109 2012-03-23 01:16:35 <BlueMatt> forrestv: we dont even have one for mainnet...
110 2012-03-23 01:16:41 luke-jr has joined
111 2012-03-23 01:16:42 <forrestv> BTC?
112 2012-03-23 01:16:47 <sipa> BTC is pretty accepted
113 2012-03-23 01:16:51 <BlueMatt> thats not a symbol, thats three letters...
114 2012-03-23 01:16:57 <BlueMatt> but I suppose that would be as official as anything
115 2012-03-23 01:17:14 <luke-jr> deoxxa: for BTC, B⃦ is pretty standard
116 2012-03-23 01:17:18 <luke-jr> deoxxa: but he asked about testnet
117 2012-03-23 01:17:22 <deoxxa> oh
118 2012-03-23 01:17:23 <deoxxa> my bad
119 2012-03-23 01:17:28 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: only you use that B
120 2012-03-23 01:17:30 <deoxxa> i totally didn't even see that
121 2012-03-23 01:17:36 <BlueMatt> Ive never seen anyone else use it...
122 2012-03-23 01:17:39 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: and favicons for virtually every site
123 2012-03-23 01:17:55 <luke-jr> and Bitcoin-Qt
124 2012-03-23 01:18:18 <BlueMatt> where in bitcoin-qt is that B
125 2012-03-23 01:18:23 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: the icon
126 2012-03-23 01:18:24 <forrestv> currency code, i guess. i was thinking about stock symbols, which are short uppercase abbreviations
127 2012-03-23 01:18:26 <BlueMatt> also, on what favicons?
128 2012-03-23 01:18:36 <luke-jr> bitcoin.org for starters
129 2012-03-23 01:18:41 <sipa> all bitcoin sites use the same favicon
130 2012-03-23 01:18:45 <BlueMatt> the icon is a bit more generic B with a line, not the B with an offcenter line
131 2012-03-23 01:18:56 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it's not offcenter.
132 2012-03-23 01:19:02 <luke-jr> it's a B with 2 lines through it
133 2012-03-23 01:19:02 <BlueMatt> B⃦
134 2012-03-23 01:19:09 <BlueMatt> hmmm, well xchat kills it then
135 2012-03-23 01:19:16 <luke-jr> or your font maybe
136 2012-03-23 01:19:17 <BlueMatt> so does chrome...
137 2012-03-23 01:19:23 <luke-jr> I agree we need better font support…
138 2012-03-23 01:19:31 <sipa> if i zoom in enough, i indeed see two lines
139 2012-03-23 01:19:39 <sipa> they don't go all the way through though
140 2012-03-23 01:19:40 <BlueMatt> and it wont even paste in libreoffice...
141 2012-03-23 01:19:58 <luke-jr> sipa: ?
142 2012-03-23 01:20:25 <sipa> they pass the bottom and the center part of the B, but not the top
143 2012-03-23 01:20:38 <luke-jr> sipa: that's a font thing
144 2012-03-23 01:21:21 <sipa> possibly
145 2012-03-23 01:21:41 <luke-jr> I'd make a TTF with a sane rendering, but I can't figure out how to do it in fontforge :/
146 2012-03-23 01:27:54 twmz_ has joined
147 2012-03-23 01:28:00 <luke-jr> anyone want to help me debug this thing more?
148 2012-03-23 01:28:41 <sipa> luke-jr: my android tablet shows your symbol as a normal B
149 2012-03-23 01:29:08 <sipa> luke-jr: i'd just wait wumpus' thoughts.on it
150 2012-03-23 01:29:17 vragnaroda has quit (Disconnected by services)
151 2012-03-23 01:30:08 <luke-jr> sipa: you should help me test by sending me lots of bitcoins
152 2012-03-23 01:30:09 <luke-jr> <.<
153 2012-03-23 01:32:30 <sipa> i'll gladly send you 10% of all bitcoins you send me
154 2012-03-23 01:32:35 zeiris has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
155 2012-03-23 01:33:04 <luke-jr> just 10%? :<
156 2012-03-23 01:33:25 <sipa> ok, 10.3%
157 2012-03-23 01:33:25 <BlueMatt> Ill do the same, but 11%!
158 2012-03-23 01:33:32 <sipa> woah
159 2012-03-23 01:33:42 <sipa> altruistic BlueMatt
160 2012-03-23 01:33:44 <luke-jr> make it 111% and we got a deal
161 2012-03-23 01:33:59 <sipa> that's in binary?
162 2012-03-23 01:34:06 <luke-jr> no
163 2012-03-23 01:34:12 <luke-jr> tonal
164 2012-03-23 01:34:14 <luke-jr> duh
165 2012-03-23 01:34:15 <BlueMatt> Ill send you 111% if you give it to me no-interest and dont set a pay-back date
166 2012-03-23 01:34:36 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: isn't that self-contradicting?
167 2012-03-23 01:34:49 <BlueMatt> only if you read it that way
168 2012-03-23 01:34:53 <sipa> luke-jr: is a tonal % a multiple of (decimal) 1/256?
169 2012-03-23 01:35:13 <luke-jr> sipa: well, tonal doesn't really use %
170 2012-03-23 01:35:19 <luke-jr> normally it'd just be 1.11 :p
171 2012-03-23 01:36:05 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
172 2012-03-23 01:36:22 <luke-jr> which I guess is decimal 106.64% <.<
173 2012-03-23 01:37:58 <luke-jr> 1.11 binary would be 175% :D
174 2012-03-23 01:38:53 <sipa> but 111% in binary is 0.07 decimal
175 2012-03-23 01:39:16 <luke-jr> no?
176 2012-03-23 01:39:19 <luke-jr> well
177 2012-03-23 01:39:30 <luke-jr> if you mix it like that :p
178 2012-03-23 01:40:22 <h4ckm3> hey dudes, I have a question: I have backed up all my wallets regularly and regularly I check them. However today when I loaded a backed up wallet file the balance show zero and it is not encrypted, the addresses that I generated are there but none of the transactions?
179 2012-03-23 01:40:29 <h4ckm3> blockexplorer shows the correct balance for the address
180 2012-03-23 01:41:32 <sipa> is your block chain caught up?
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213 2012-03-23 02:27:00 <bx_> Looking for developers familiar with bitcoin and php/js/mysql.. Picking up some devs for a project. Thanks a bunch. If you know css/design; even better! -- Thanks!
214 2012-03-23 02:28:03 <andytoshi> i doubt you'll find people who like php or mysql here
215 2012-03-23 02:28:52 <deoxxa> > starting new project
216 2012-03-23 02:28:56 <deoxxa> > chooses php
217 2012-03-23 02:29:00 <deoxxa> BZZZZZT
218 2012-03-23 02:29:21 * BlueMatt kicks deoxxa for choosing php
219 2012-03-23 02:29:35 <deoxxa> urk, i'm not using php
220 2012-03-23 02:29:56 <sipa> 3:28:52 < deoxxa> urk, i'm not using php   <--- makes it really sound like it's a drug
221 2012-03-23 02:30:05 <BlueMatt> its not?
222 2012-03-23 02:30:07 <Joric> facebook uses php
223 2012-03-23 02:30:09 <sipa> did you buy it on silk road?
224 2012-03-23 02:30:15 <Joric> well, a better version of it
225 2012-03-23 02:30:25 <deoxxa> yea but i had it shipped to my own address so i'm not actually that anonymous
226 2012-03-23 02:30:26 <sipa> Joric: they wrote their own php->c compiler...
227 2012-03-23 02:31:05 <Joric> nasty
228 2012-03-23 02:31:16 <bx_> actually any language just pm me if you're interested
229 2012-03-23 02:31:17 <deoxxa> it's actually PHP to C++
230 2012-03-23 02:31:27 <andytoshi> i bet they aren't using actual php since they wrote their compiler
231 2012-03-23 02:31:29 <deoxxa> they have their own VM now as well
232 2012-03-23 02:31:39 <deoxxa> apparently it's horrid
233 2012-03-23 02:31:53 JZavala has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
234 2012-03-23 02:31:55 <sipa> they had this massive codebase in PHP, but it became too slow
235 2012-03-23 02:32:13 <sipa> so instead of rewriting it in a programming language, they decided to compile it to one ;)
236 2012-03-23 02:32:26 <deoxxa> heh
237 2012-03-23 02:32:31 <Joric> i used python/django lately mostly because of gae
238 2012-03-23 02:32:43 <Joric> should try ruby
239 2012-03-23 02:32:47 <deoxxa> i'm all about node.js lately
240 2012-03-23 02:33:15 <deoxxa> i find that i actually enjoy coding with node, instead of just enjoying the results
241 2012-03-23 02:33:27 <deoxxa> php used to be fun as well, but for some reason it's not anymore
242 2012-03-23 02:34:09 <andytoshi> php just starts to wear on you
243 2012-03-23 02:34:17 <andytoshi> the inflexibility and weird syntax
244 2012-03-23 02:34:20 rebroad has quit (Read error: No route to host)
245 2012-03-23 02:34:31 <andytoshi> always having to look up the parameter order for everything
246 2012-03-23 02:35:03 <sipa> the only good thing about php is its large set of very inconsistent but extensive library, which you know will be available on any system
247 2012-03-23 02:35:30 <andytoshi> yeah, but python's got it bear there i think
248 2012-03-23 02:35:31 <andytoshi> beat*
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254 2012-03-23 03:02:35 <andytoshi> ;;bc,blocks
255 2012-03-23 03:02:35 <gribble> 172430
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277 2012-03-23 05:02:03 <jrmithdobbs> hrm, why is the mac build targeting 10.5 when 10.5 and 32bit builds aren't supported by newest qt sdk?
278 2012-03-23 05:02:32 <luke-jr> "As of Qt 4.7, Qt supports Mac OS X versions 10.4 and up."
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281 2012-03-23 05:09:52 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: whats the volume like for 979?
282 2012-03-23 05:11:14 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: maybe 2 times per transaction at most
283 2012-03-23 05:11:28 <BlueMatt> per tx that is yours or per tx in a block?
284 2012-03-23 05:11:35 JRWR has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
285 2012-03-23 05:11:36 <luke-jr> basically after AddToWallet
286 2012-03-23 05:11:42 <luke-jr> tx that's yours
287 2012-03-23 05:11:53 <BlueMatt> oh, well thats a no-brainer then
288 2012-03-23 05:12:22 <BlueMatt> why the random block though?
289 2012-03-23 05:12:24 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: luke-jr opened pull request 979 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/979>
290 2012-03-23 05:13:16 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: scope for the string
291 2012-03-23 05:13:25 <BlueMatt> again, why?
292 2012-03-23 05:13:31 <luke-jr> so it falls out of scope…
293 2012-03-23 05:13:41 <BlueMatt> I know what a block does, but why bother?
294 2012-03-23 05:13:57 <luke-jr> it isn't a bother, just automatic for me
295 2012-03-23 05:14:07 <luke-jr> debating it is a bother ;p
296 2012-03-23 05:14:09 <BlueMatt> let it fall out of scope at the end of the function so that useful work gets done before you spend time deallocating your string
297 2012-03-23 05:14:52 <luke-jr> if it needed optimization, I'd make it common outside the loop
298 2012-03-23 05:15:05 <luke-jr> but I doubt it does
299 2012-03-23 05:15:24 <BlueMatt> meh, whatever, I just wondered if it actually served a purpose
300 2012-03-23 05:25:27 <bx_> Looking for developers familiar with bitcoin and php/js/mysql.. Picking up some devs for a project. Thanks a bunch. If you know css/design; even better! -- Thanks!
301 2012-03-23 05:26:41 <BlueMatt> oh, please dont go on repeat...
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309 2012-03-23 05:51:25 <jrmithdobbs> ;;bc,blocks
310 2012-03-23 05:51:25 <gribble> 172438
311 2012-03-23 05:51:40 <jrmithdobbs> 33 minutes?
312 2012-03-23 05:52:24 <deoxxa> bx_: i'll bite - what have you got in mind?
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460 2012-03-23 12:53:47 <sipa> from v0.1.5 to v0.2.0: 35 commits
461 2012-03-23 12:53:58 <sipa> from v0.2.0 to v0.3.0: 47 commits
462 2012-03-23 12:54:09 <sipa> from v0.3.0 to v0.4.0: 639 commits
463 2012-03-23 12:54:19 <sipa> from v0.4.0 to v0.5.0: 454 commits
464 2012-03-23 12:54:31 <sipa> from v0.5.0 to HEAD: 278 commits
465 2012-03-23 12:55:21 <luke-jr> I'm not sure commits are more meaningful than LOC
466 2012-03-23 12:55:27 <luke-jr> especially since we're collapsing pullreqs
467 2012-03-23 12:56:17 * luke-jr wonders what happens if you graph commit rate with bitcoin price
468 2012-03-23 12:56:19 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 980 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/980>
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502 2012-03-23 14:23:28 <t7> can the blockchain be pruned or something
503 2012-03-23 14:23:45 <t7> everyone seems to not care about the fact its like 2 gig
504 2012-03-23 14:24:45 PsiliPharm has joined
505 2012-03-23 14:26:19 <sipa> most nodes can, but this hasn't been implemented yet
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507 2012-03-23 14:31:59 <helo> maybe it's good to keep it big right now, and optimize things to be able to handle a huge and unruly blockchain
508 2012-03-23 14:34:10 <helo> i suppose it's not necessary to avoid implementing pruning in order to optimize for unruly chain size
509 2012-03-23 14:34:21 <sipa> how do you mean?
510 2012-03-23 14:34:53 <helo> which statement are you asking about?
511 2012-03-23 14:35:46 <sipa> oh, i missed a line; nevermind
512 2012-03-23 14:37:03 <helo> i guess with oss projects people won't be inclined to invest their time in things that don't seem immediately pressing, so maybe it is necessary :)
513 2012-03-23 14:37:52 <sipa> i'm not sure that is different for commercial projects :)
514 2012-03-23 14:38:29 <sipa> "we need to refactor this code, it's a mess!" - "Not now, there's a release deadline coming up"
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516 2012-03-23 14:39:40 <freewil> i dont get all the complaints about the blockchain being 1gig
517 2012-03-23 14:40:04 <freewil> thats not that big and there are checkpoints available for download
518 2012-03-23 14:40:15 <t7> freewil: yeah but it cant grow forever :|
519 2012-03-23 14:40:17 <freewil> and the client has jsonrpc for creating thin clients
520 2012-03-23 14:40:29 <t7> unless it grows slower than boradband speed grows
521 2012-03-23 14:40:32 <t7> and ram
522 2012-03-23 14:41:00 <sipa> checkpoints have nothing to do with downloads, and downloading the blockchain without verifying is dangerous (you will not notice corruption, and could end up on a chain fork)
523 2012-03-23 14:41:01 <freewil> it doesnt need to grow bigger than broadband speed
524 2012-03-23 14:41:15 <freewil> you only need to download the whole thing once
525 2012-03-23 14:41:21 <sipa> and jsonrpc is currently not really usable for creating thin clients
526 2012-03-23 14:41:33 <freewil> why not?
527 2012-03-23 14:41:34 <t7> freewil: yeah but it will get to 20 gig
528 2012-03-23 14:41:35 k^^ has joined
529 2012-03-23 14:41:48 <t7> then joe avaerage aint gonna wait 3 days to download the block chain
530 2012-03-23 14:41:52 copumpkin has joined
531 2012-03-23 14:42:08 <sipa> joe average shouldn't be running a full node then
532 2012-03-23 14:43:03 <t7> well the number of full nodes will go down
533 2012-03-23 14:43:05 <t7> panic!
534 2012-03-23 14:43:17 <sipa> the number of full nodes, probably
535 2012-03-23 14:45:32 k^^ has quit (Client Quit)
536 2012-03-23 14:45:35 <t7> im gonna invent a new crypto currency with a block block instead of a block chain
537 2012-03-23 14:45:39 <t7> fixed size
538 2012-03-23 14:45:47 <t7> and fixed number of addresses
539 2012-03-23 14:45:59 <t7> blob block*
540 2012-03-23 14:46:10 <t7> block blob ?
541 2012-03-23 14:47:24 * luke-jr wonders if half-full-nodes are possible
542 2012-03-23 14:47:42 <luke-jr> ie, prune a random 50%, but provide the other 50% to other nodes
543 2012-03-23 14:49:26 <sipa> not with the current protocol
544 2012-03-23 14:49:53 <sipa> but that's not too hard to change if necessary
545 2012-03-23 14:50:04 <t7> who thought it would be a good idea to accept TXs sent to invalid addresses?
546 2012-03-23 14:50:39 <luke-jr> t7: it's impossible to know an address is invalid
547 2012-03-23 14:50:40 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
548 2012-03-23 14:50:44 <luke-jr> unless its basic form is wrong
549 2012-03-23 14:51:01 <sipa> invalid != non-existing
550 2012-03-23 14:51:49 <luke-jr> well, it's impossible to accept tx to truly invalid addresses :p
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553 2012-03-23 14:52:25 <t7> Can someone talk me through how transactions are sent (signed by the owner of the coin)
554 2012-03-23 14:52:47 <sipa> and regarding the ability to send to non-existing addresses: the basic probablem is that we consider them to be addresses rather than txout script templates
555 2012-03-23 14:53:05 <sipa> imho
556 2012-03-23 14:53:05 <t7> bob owns a coin, he send it to alice by setting the public address to alice's address (?) and signing with his private key
557 2012-03-23 14:53:15 <sipa> t7: that's it, yes
558 2012-03-23 14:53:21 <sipa> a bit more complex than that though
559 2012-03-23 14:53:36 <t7> how can alice verify that it has been signed by bob
560 2012-03-23 14:53:47 <sipa> ok, let me go into a bit more detail
561 2012-03-23 14:53:51 <t7> the hash of the new coin = something special?
562 2012-03-23 14:54:52 <sipa> a coin is a transaction output, it is identified by the hash of the transaction that created it + the number of the output (if transaction X has 3 outputs, those outputs are called X:0, X:1 and X:2)
563 2012-03-23 14:55:23 <luke-jr> t7: ever hear of public key cryptography?
564 2012-03-23 14:55:54 <sipa> every transaction output carries a small script. when consuming a coin, you provide an input for that script that will make it evaluate to true
565 2012-03-23 14:56:01 BTC_Bear has quit (hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
566 2012-03-23 14:56:37 <sipa> if you have a typical send-to-address transaction, the script says: input a signature and a pubkey, the hash of the pubkey must be <address>, and the signature must be valid for this message with that pubkey
567 2012-03-23 14:56:37 <helo> mmmm coins
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569 2012-03-23 14:57:06 <sipa> when spending it, you provide you own pubkey + a signature on the spending transaction created by that pubkey
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571 2012-03-23 14:58:38 <t7> i need to write this down
572 2012-03-23 14:59:11 <sipa> t7: so a full transaction is something that says: a) consume these previous coins (and here are the inputs for their scripts, proving that i own them) b) create these new coins (each with a particular value, and a script)
573 2012-03-23 14:59:42 iocor has quit (Client Quit)
574 2012-03-23 15:00:51 <t7> what do inputs look like?
575 2012-03-23 15:00:53 <t7> (for scripts)
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594 2012-03-23 16:08:47 <jaydhx> how do i fix this vulnerability? download bitcoin again?
595 2012-03-23 16:13:06 <sipa> which?
596 2012-03-23 16:14:12 PsiliPharm has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
597 2012-03-23 16:14:39 <jaydhx> my friend said hacker can steal all my bitcoin
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614 2012-03-23 16:40:44 <helo> anything is possible
615 2012-03-23 16:41:50 <helo> thief can steal my money, bomb can explode my house
616 2012-03-23 16:43:42 <helo> there is a lot you can do to make it harder for hacker to steal all your bitcoin: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Wallet_Security_Dos_and_Don%27ts_(Windows)
617 2012-03-23 16:46:37 <helo> bah, shouldn't have turned off parts...
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679 2012-03-23 20:00:25 <vegard> accepted alert 1011, AppliesToMe()=1
680 2012-03-23 20:00:29 <vegard> what's that?
681 2012-03-23 20:01:01 <vegard> just before: version message: version 50301, blocks=26000
682 2012-03-23 20:01:03 <BlueMatt> you got the alert for bitcoin.org/critfix
683 2012-03-23 20:01:12 <vegard> is it telling me to upgrade?
684 2012-03-23 20:01:17 <BlueMatt> yea
685 2012-03-23 20:01:59 <vegard> thanks.
686 2012-03-23 20:02:13 <vegard> am I being punished by the network for using this version?
687 2012-03-23 20:02:34 wasabi has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
688 2012-03-23 20:02:37 <vegard> oooh. now I realised getinfo also shows this:     "errors" : "URGENT: security fix for Bitcoin-Qt on Windows: http://bitcoin.org/critfix"
689 2012-03-23 20:05:57 <BlueMatt> you arent being punished, its just a notification
690 2012-03-23 20:06:07 <specular> i recently sent myself some funds from MtGox and its been 30 minutes with it sitll at 0/unconfirmed, what should i do?
691 2012-03-23 20:06:19 wood has quit (Quit: Leave me alone. kthx)
692 2012-03-23 20:06:25 <vegard> specular: wait
693 2012-03-23 20:06:31 <specular> vegard: how long?
694 2012-03-23 20:06:35 <BlueMatt> specular: wait for eligius to get a block
695 2012-03-23 20:06:42 <BlueMatt> it should get confirmed by then (if not before)
696 2012-03-23 20:06:42 <specular> oh ok
697 2012-03-23 20:07:10 <vegard> once it gets into a block, it will get more confirms at a rate of approximately 6 per hour
698 2012-03-23 20:09:16 hyphaestus has joined
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708 2012-03-23 20:35:55 Someguy123 is now known as Someguy123[afk]
709 2012-03-23 20:37:54 Someguy123[afk] is now known as Someguy123
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712 2012-03-23 20:43:00 <specular> yay got a confirm, thanks guys
713 2012-03-23 20:43:03 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
714 2012-03-23 20:44:20 tcatm has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
715 2012-03-23 20:46:26 <[Tycho]> http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/413394_10150762950471804_622196803_11679184_619632210_o.jpg
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719 2012-03-23 20:49:08 <BlueMatt> [Tycho]: oh, wow that is amazing
720 2012-03-23 20:49:18 gribble has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
721 2012-03-23 20:49:23 <BlueMatt> (though not at all surprising)
722 2012-03-23 20:49:39 fpgaminer has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
723 2012-03-23 20:49:43 <[Tycho]> :)
724 2012-03-23 20:49:50 gribble has joined
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735 2012-03-23 21:00:50 mcorlett is now known as draco49
736 2012-03-23 21:01:11 talso has joined
737 2012-03-23 21:01:26 <vegard> ERROR: ConnectInputs() : 3263bb990c mapTransactions prev not found 814674b4ce
738 2012-03-23 21:01:29 <vegard> ERROR: ConnectInputs() : b7ad2e6e23 mapTransactions prev not found bac1131a39
739 2012-03-23 21:01:36 <vegard> is this normal?
740 2012-03-23 21:01:44 draco49 is now known as mcorlett
741 2012-03-23 21:02:22 <vegard> there was a whole sequence of them
742 2012-03-23 21:02:49 <BlueMatt> do you have a full chain?
743 2012-03-23 21:02:53 <vegard> yes.
744 2012-03-23 21:02:58 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,blocks
745 2012-03-23 21:03:12 <vegard>     "blocks" : 172522,
746 2012-03-23 21:03:34 <BlueMatt> how lomg has your node been online?
747 2012-03-23 21:03:41 <vegard> 247 days
748 2012-03-23 21:03:49 PsiliPharm has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
749 2012-03-23 21:04:14 <BlueMatt> you havent restarted bitcoind?
750 2012-03-23 21:04:16 <vegard> nope
751 2012-03-23 21:04:37 <vegard> er, well, I have in those 247 days, but not recently
752 2012-03-23 21:04:53 * BlueMatt is writing this on a keyboard without keys
753 2012-03-23 21:05:17 <vegard> the last time I started bitcoind was 31 days ago
754 2012-03-23 21:06:19 <BlueMatt> well maybe someone is just making fake txes...pretty odd, but...
755 2012-03-23 21:06:38 <vegard> does the debug log contain any sensitive data? (I guess not)
756 2012-03-23 21:06:55 <BlueMatt> notish
757 2012-03-23 21:07:13 <BlueMatt> it says which txes are yours
758 2012-03-23 21:07:30 <vegard> http://pastebin.com/tESJXtU8
759 2012-03-23 21:08:04 gribble has joined
760 2012-03-23 21:08:11 user_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
761 2012-03-23 21:09:02 PsiliPharm has joined
762 2012-03-23 21:09:09 <BlueMatt> you got the alert for bitcoin.org/critfix
763 2012-03-23 21:09:16 nanotube has joined
764 2012-03-23 21:09:26 <vegard> now I got this: ERROR: ConnectInputs() : e4c0a28119 mapTransactions prev not found c56365a361
765 2012-03-23 21:09:27 <BlueMatt> oops...
766 2012-03-23 21:09:59 <BlueMatt> didnt mean to resend that, cleaning my keyboard
767 2012-03-23 21:11:41 <makomk> I think it may also be possible for you to receive transactions out of order.
768 2012-03-23 21:13:02 <vegard> aha
769 2012-03-23 21:13:10 <BlueMatt> that should be pretty rare unless someone is making txes one after another without even 1 confirmation (though possible_
770 2012-03-23 21:13:11 <BlueMatt> )
771 2012-03-23 21:13:23 gribble has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
772 2012-03-23 21:13:31 talso has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
773 2012-03-23 21:14:19 <BlueMatt> )
774 2012-03-23 21:18:16 nanotube has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
775 2012-03-23 21:19:02 pjwaffle has joined
776 2012-03-23 21:19:24 <pjwaffle> When I start bitcoin, it crashes with some visual c++ terminated runtime error
777 2012-03-23 21:19:52 <BlueMatt> care to paste it?
778 2012-03-23 21:20:02 <pjwaffle> Is there a more detailed log file?
779 2012-03-23 21:20:30 <BlueMatt> it wont have runtime errors...
780 2012-03-23 21:21:00 <pjwaffle> http://pastebin.com/GcGB6sSv
781 2012-03-23 21:21:05 <pjwaffle> That might be relevant
782 2012-03-23 21:21:17 <pjwaffle> That kept coming up later in the log, probably after I kept trying to start it
783 2012-03-23 21:21:29 <BlueMatt> but there may be something at the end of debug.loh
784 2012-03-23 21:21:57 <pjwaffle> There's 10 BTC at stake D:
785 2012-03-23 21:22:13 erle- has joined
786 2012-03-23 21:22:31 <vegard> your wallet is probably still safe, but you might consider backing it up
787 2012-03-23 21:22:36 <pjwaffle> Ok
788 2012-03-23 21:22:49 <pjwaffle> Well I haven't recieved it
789 2012-03-23 21:22:54 erle- has left ()
790 2012-03-23 21:23:02 <pjwaffle> Because the chain basically froze downloading at 77%
791 2012-03-23 21:23:07 user_ has joined
792 2012-03-23 21:23:08 <pjwaffle> Then I restarted it but it crashed
793 2012-03-23 21:23:34 <pjwaffle> I mean I know I recieved it
794 2012-03-23 21:23:41 <pjwaffle> Or rather, it was sent to me
795 2012-03-23 21:23:48 <pjwaffle> But is it in the wallet.dat?
796 2012-03-23 21:24:23 <vegard> your wallet.dat constains your secret keys, regardless of the status of the blockchain
797 2012-03-23 21:24:26 PsiliPharm has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
798 2012-03-23 21:24:40 <vegard> assuming this wallet is the one you used to generate the address that the 10 btc were sent to
799 2012-03-23 21:24:52 <pjwaffle> ok good
800 2012-03-23 21:24:53 <pjwaffle> thanks
801 2012-03-23 21:25:54 <pjwaffle> so now what?
802 2012-03-23 21:26:08 PsiliPharm has joined
803 2012-03-23 21:27:06 <vegard> I'd try moving the blkindex.dat and blk*.dat files somewhere else and get the chain again
804 2012-03-23 21:27:13 <pjwaffle> ok
805 2012-03-23 21:27:48 <pjwaffle> thanks
806 2012-03-23 21:27:53 <pjwaffle> works now
807 2012-03-23 21:28:11 <pjwaffle> I think my recieving address was preserved as well :D
808 2012-03-23 21:28:24 <vegard> maybe the devs would like to have a look at those files, I dunno
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830 2012-03-23 22:42:30 <sipa> BlueMatt: i probably need to write the exact policy enfotced by -upgradewallet somewhere.
831 2012-03-23 22:42:59 <BlueMatt> sipa: probably
832 2012-03-23 22:44:11 <sipa> Now, the form without parameter is easy, and the other form is considered expert usage.
833 2012-03-23 22:48:18 ThomasV_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
834 2012-03-23 22:49:16 <luke-jr> is there a patch to not relay jerk blocks out there?
835 2012-03-23 22:49:20 <luke-jr> sick of being accused of it
836 2012-03-23 22:49:49 <copumpkin> are jerk blocks the 1-txn ones?
837 2012-03-23 22:50:01 <sipa> wait until discouraging is merged, and add a discouragement rule
838 2012-03-23 22:50:03 <copumpkin> luke-jr: did you ever track down that bug?
839 2012-03-23 22:50:11 <luke-jr> copumpkin: which one?
840 2012-03-23 22:50:21 <copumpkin> the one I was flooding you yesterday trying to find
841 2012-03-23 22:50:25 <luke-jr> sipa: discourage isn't viable as-is. it needs a 0th stage.
842 2012-03-23 22:50:40 <luke-jr> copumpkin: nope ☹
843 2012-03-23 22:50:44 <copumpkin> aw
844 2012-03-23 22:51:00 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
845 2012-03-23 22:54:26 <sipa> BlueMatt: it's easy actually: -upgradewallet forces upgrade to latest versio, -upgradewallet=version allows (but doesn't force) upgrade up to that version, unless that cannot be satisfied by an explicit action. The default corresponds to -upgradewallet=someoldversion
846 2012-03-23 22:55:53 <sipa> maybe we need a -longhelp with a paragraph of help text per option instead of a single line
847 2012-03-23 22:55:58 da2ce7 has joined
848 2012-03-23 22:56:38 <BlueMatt> sipa: unless you run with -upgradewallet=50000 and encrypt your wallet, then you get a 0.6 wallet?
849 2012-03-23 22:59:14 <sipa> yes
850 2012-03-23 22:59:36 <sipa> well, anything less than 60000
851 2012-03-23 22:59:56 JRWR has joined
852 2012-03-23 23:00:13 <BlueMatt> seems like it shouldnt...
853 2012-03-23 23:01:23 <sipa> gavin liked it that way: upgrade to latest and greatest as soon as something happens that implies old versions will be broken anyway
854 2012-03-23 23:01:36 barmstrong has joined
855 2012-03-23 23:01:53 <BlueMatt> well, fine by me, not a big deal either way
856 2012-03-23 23:01:56 <sipa> feel free to comment, it's easy to change
857 2012-03-23 23:03:17 JRWR has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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863 2012-03-23 23:17:50 hyphaestus has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
864 2012-03-23 23:17:53 <luke-jr> sipa: -help=<option> ?
865 2012-03-23 23:19:02 <splatster> luke-jr: -help has an input?
866 2012-03-23 23:19:08 <luke-jr> splatster: it could
867 2012-03-23 23:20:15 <splatster> I have finally found a use for unused blank CDs/DVDs.  wallet.dat backups
868 2012-03-23 23:20:47 <BlueMatt> splatster: you know CDs/DVDs have terrible shelf-life?
869 2012-03-23 23:20:59 <splatster> Really?
870 2012-03-23 23:21:07 <BlueMatt> compared to other media, yea
871 2012-03-23 23:21:09 <splatster> I don't use them as sole backups.
872 2012-03-23 23:21:29 <BlueMatt> unless you pay out the node for the long-term 1000 year backup CDs/DVDs
873 2012-03-23 23:21:37 <BlueMatt> of which there are like 2 mfgs iirc
874 2012-03-23 23:21:40 <BlueMatt> s/node/nose/
875 2012-03-23 23:22:01 andytoshi has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5)
876 2012-03-23 23:22:28 <splatster> Multiple USBs. Stored in Dropbox in the most secure way possible. Etc.
877 2012-03-23 23:22:36 knotwork_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
878 2012-03-23 23:22:40 <BlueMatt> dropbox?
879 2012-03-23 23:22:47 <BlueMatt> have you seen what happened to megaupload?
880 2012-03-23 23:22:56 <BlueMatt> usb's also dont have a great shelf-life tbh
881 2012-03-23 23:23:08 <BlueMatt> in fact, there are very few good shelf-life storage mediums
882 2012-03-23 23:23:11 <BlueMatt> tape drives
883 2012-03-23 23:23:20 <BlueMatt> expensive backup cds/dvds
884 2012-03-23 23:23:35 <splatster> Next you'll tell me that my paper wallets have terrible shelf life.  What else should I do?
885 2012-03-23 23:23:51 <BlueMatt> best bet: encrypt your backs, claim the password is easy to guess and disseminate, everyone will be passing your wallet backup around trying to crack it ;)
886 2012-03-23 23:24:01 <BlueMatt> paper is actually probably the best bet
887 2012-03-23 23:24:06 <BlueMatt> given a good paper+printer
888 2012-03-23 23:24:10 <BlueMatt> s/printer/ink/
889 2012-03-23 23:24:17 <BlueMatt> well, unless you have a fire
890 2012-03-23 23:24:27 <BlueMatt> so I guess that would be good paper+ink+fire-proof safe
891 2012-03-23 23:24:32 PsiliPharm has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
892 2012-03-23 23:24:36 <BlueMatt> ^ how I would do it if I cared
893 2012-03-23 23:25:05 <BlueMatt> instead I have copies of my wallet on hard drives everywhere in folders I forgot I had, mostly unencrypted <-- anyone who stole my laptop could take all my coins...
894 2012-03-23 23:25:11 darkskiez has joined
895 2012-03-23 23:25:14 <h4ckm3> what about cloud storage + bcrypt?
896 2012-03-23 23:25:21 <splatster> Well, what is your backup procedure.  I want to make sure my GLBSE fund's wallet is as secure as possible -before- we launch.
897 2012-03-23 23:25:36 <BlueMatt> h4ckm3: again, see: megaupload
898 2012-03-23 23:25:45 <BlueMatt> cloud storage is a good idea, but not as the only backup
899 2012-03-23 23:25:53 <BlueMatt> maybe like 10 providers would be nice, and wouldnt be hard to do
900 2012-03-23 23:25:58 PsiliPharm has joined
901 2012-03-23 23:26:01 <BlueMatt> splatster: I would go det wallet + paper backup
902 2012-03-23 23:26:02 <h4ckm3> like in your gmail
903 2012-03-23 23:26:08 <BlueMatt> h4ckm3: thats one
904 2012-03-23 23:26:26 <BlueMatt> splatster: that also offers some cool features like making new addresses without having the info to spend them on the server
905 2012-03-23 23:26:27 <h4ckm3> or paperwallet in secure note on lastpass?
906 2012-03-23 23:26:40 <deoxxa> > encrypt your backs, claim the password is easy to guess and disseminate, everyone will be passing your wallet backup around trying to crack it
907 2012-03-23 23:26:41 <deoxxa> genius
908 2012-03-23 23:26:44 <h4ckm3> +pgp
909 2012-03-23 23:26:54 <h4ckm3> ;)
910 2012-03-23 23:27:17 <splatster> det wallet?
911 2012-03-23 23:27:26 <BlueMatt> h4ckm3: I dont trust lastpass, as much as the site itself is secure, a highly motivated attack could make a phishing version of lastpass and sslstrip your connection, stealing all your coins...
912 2012-03-23 23:27:49 <BlueMatt> splatster: deterministic wallets, type-2 from this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=19137.0
913 2012-03-23 23:28:35 <BlueMatt> sipa has an implementation in the satoshi client and there is a compatible (iirc) one in armory, but neither are really finalized, so I would wait a while before using either
914 2012-03-23 23:29:07 <splatster> How secure is a 4096 RSA key?
915 2012-03-23 23:29:17 Z0rZ0rZ0r has joined
916 2012-03-23 23:29:22 <luke-jr> splatster: secure enough that it's used for all the bitcoin release signing
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919 2012-03-23 23:31:08 <splatster> Of course, I could send smickles the wallet so both of our backup methods would have to fail in order for the fund's bitcoins to truly be lost + most of the time the capital will be with some fixed-income bitcoin security.
920 2012-03-23 23:31:16 <luke-jr> anyone want to review? http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/w/bitcoind/luke-jr.git/commitdiff/61b6ec4c1119746d096d0071d498763595c54c4b
921 2012-03-23 23:31:24 <BlueMatt> splatster: "have fun trying to crack one before the universe ends" secure
922 2012-03-23 23:31:37 Z0rZ0rZ0r1 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
923 2012-03-23 23:32:15 <splatster> BlueMatt: But if I lose the private key for my RSA key, then my wallet is equally fucked, but the probability of both happening to be lost is so low, I think it will be safe.
924 2012-03-23 23:32:55 <BlueMatt> splatster: if you want to use released code (which I would obv highly suggest) I would go with a bitcoin-encrypted wallet, generate a ridiculously large keypool (depends on what kind of volume you need, but keep an eye on the keypool), then manually gpg or otherwise encrypt the wallet on top of the bitcoin encryption, and email to a few people, put it up on dropbox+wuala+...+...
925 2012-03-23 23:33:32 <BlueMatt> I would backup your rsa key's privkey (obv encrypted, using a different pass than the one used for your wallet) with the wallet
926 2012-03-23 23:33:44 <splatster> ok, that's what I'll do.
927 2012-03-23 23:33:53 <BlueMatt> and obv make all the backup methods run in a nicely pacakged script :)
928 2012-03-23 23:35:22 kish is now known as gadaffi
929 2012-03-23 23:35:28 <BlueMatt> oh, and make sure the bitcoin node that you use to send coins a. does not run an rpc server, unless it only listens on 127.0.0.1, b. connects to the bitcoin network through another server who's sole purpose in life is to run a bitcoin node between the internet and your node and c. to send coins, have the server put a list of to-be-sent coins on a flash drive and sneakernet it to your coin-holding node
930 2012-03-23 23:36:00 <BlueMatt> ^ what I would do if I had a $10k+ wallet
931 2012-03-23 23:37:02 <BlueMatt> sadly, that means payouts only happen when you sneakernet, but if you did that once when you come into work and once before leaving, it would be fairly reasonable
932 2012-03-23 23:37:24 <BlueMatt> or maybe have a large-holder and a small holder and scripts to move coins back and forth when the small-holders gets too low/high
933 2012-03-23 23:37:34 <BlueMatt> that way atleast you minimize your risk...
934 2012-03-23 23:37:34 gadaffi is now known as kish
935 2012-03-23 23:37:59 <splatster> BlueMatt: At todays prices, would definitely be handling several thousand $
936 2012-03-23 23:38:28 <BlueMatt> splatster: how often does the server pay people, ie would they be willing to wait 12+hours to get their payouts?
937 2012-03-23 23:39:10 <splatster> BlueMatt: TBH, the majority of the time, coins will be with the institutions the fund will be investing in.
938 2012-03-23 23:39:30 <splatster> So I'm not sure I need to go through all that.
939 2012-03-23 23:39:39 <BlueMatt> if yes: go with method one and sneaker-net the list of payouts every day.  if no: go with method 2 and have two nodes and only manually send from the high-holder
940 2012-03-23 23:40:10 <BlueMatt> splatster: if you move large amounts of coin, I would really suggest it...
941 2012-03-23 23:40:55 <splatster> BlueMatt: define "large amounts"  100 BTC? 200 BTC? 500 BTC?
942 2012-03-23 23:41:21 <BlueMatt> large amounts depends on how much risk you are willing to take
943 2012-03-23 23:41:57 <BlueMatt> a. are you insured b. how much are you willing to lose c. how much do you think attackers will go after you (not script kiddies, actual attackers)
944 2012-03-23 23:43:09 <BlueMatt> honestly, none of this, even though it may seem complicated, would take more than a day of work to set up, so its not /that/ bad
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950 2012-03-23 23:45:05 <splatster> BlueMatt: I really check my machine for malware so often, and I am relatively tech savy, I don't download stuff from BT on this machine, etc. that I think it's safe.
951 2012-03-23 23:45:10 <BlueMatt> and, at the end of the day, you are dealing with money/financial software.  this is the kind of setup any semi-reasonable bank would have and is required by pci (not that pci has really ever stopped incompetence, but it does provide a good basic, anyone should be doing this)
952 2012-03-23 23:45:21 <splatster> hmmm
953 2012-03-23 23:45:23 mologie_ has joined
954 2012-03-23 23:45:39 <BlueMatt> splatster: wait, you are gonna be running a large holding wallet on a machine which isnt dedicated to just running a bitcoin node?
955 2012-03-23 23:45:50 <BlueMatt> that should be the absolute minimum any bitcoin-based website should do
956 2012-03-23 23:45:58 <splatster> okay
957 2012-03-23 23:46:16 <BlueMatt> even if you dont do fancy sneakernetting or whatever, at least separate the bitcoin node
958 2012-03-23 23:46:32 <BlueMatt> (and have a sanity-checking proxy infront of your rpc interface)
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960 2012-03-23 23:46:55 <splatster> So I have to sign all TXs on an offline machine, setup bitcoind on a separate server, and relay those TXs to that server manually.
961 2012-03-23 23:47:06 <BlueMatt> (ie is this spending an unreasonable amount of coin, have I gotten too many requests over the past n seconds...)
962 2012-03-23 23:47:20 <BlueMatt> splatster: dont have to, that is what I would do if you have a lot of coin
963 2012-03-23 23:47:32 <BlueMatt> splatster: but you do pretty much have to run the bitcoin node which holds the coin on its own server
964 2012-03-23 23:47:51 <BlueMatt> or on a highly-locked-down webserver (though I really wouldnt recommend that one)
965 2012-03-23 23:49:19 <splatster> Would this be a bad thing to do: use -this- machine to boot up to an offline copy of OS X with a static blockchain, make the TXs there, put them on a USB, boot up on to my online main copy of OS X, and then relay those TXs?
966 2012-03-23 23:49:47 <BlueMatt> not at all, iirc that is what gavin (used to) do with his coins
967 2012-03-23 23:49:51 <BlueMatt> and is a pretty good system
968 2012-03-23 23:51:54 <BlueMatt> I would copy the chain+wallet over together though
969 2012-03-23 23:52:22 phantomfakeBNC has joined
970 2012-03-23 23:52:22 <BlueMatt> ie just keep a flash drive with your datadir and move that back and forth
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980 2012-03-23 23:57:47 <splatster> What's the proper way to get a TX from bitcoind and copy it to another copy of bitcoind on a diff machine and have the second copy relay the TX.
981 2012-03-23 23:57:53 <splatster> s/./?/
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984 2012-03-23 23:58:37 <luke-jr> splatster: not supported.
985 2012-03-23 23:59:20 <splatster> Okay so then how could I do the procedure I described above? (have one machine create/sign the TX and have a different one relay it)
986 2012-03-23 23:59:58 <luke-jr> write your own client