1 2012-03-25 00:00:00 <etotheipi_> and I'll need to see what that was
  2 2012-03-25 00:01:26 <Joric> why you're always trying to use homebrew ) it's all already there you only have to download qt binaries )
  3 2012-03-25 00:02:25 <Joric> i didn't touch homebrew with a barge pole
  4 2012-03-25 00:02:38 <etotheipi_> Joric, what is with the closing-parentheses at the end of your msgs?
  5 2012-03-25 00:03:20 <splatster> etotheipi_: Tried to recompile
  6 2012-03-25 00:03:21 <splatster> CppBlockUtils.i:23: Error: Unable to find 'std_string.i'
  7 2012-03-25 00:03:21 <splatster> CppBlockUtils.i:24: Error: Unable to find 'std_vector.i'
  8 2012-03-25 00:03:39 <Joric> i just skip the eyes :)
  9 2012-03-25 00:05:35 <etotheipi_> splatster, that's a most-interesting error!
 10 2012-03-25 00:06:02 <splatster> wait there's more
 11 2012-03-25 00:06:11 <splatster> I'll put it on pastebin
 12 2012-03-25 00:06:23 <etotheipi_> something is wacky with your swig installation:  it's like saying in C++ "#include <math.h>" and it comes back and says "Sorry, no math.h"
 13 2012-03-25 00:06:39 <splatster> etotheipi_: http://pastebin.com/dG6J9RsA
 14 2012-03-25 00:06:40 <etotheipi_> splatster, I don't think I need any more...
 15 2012-03-25 00:06:47 <Joric> 'The following variation on Joric’s instructions were provided by user “TorusJKL” on the BitcoinTalk forums: (homebrew bullshit) no i didn't use homebrew
 16 2012-03-25 00:06:52 <splatster> there were errors before that
 17 2012-03-25 00:07:05 <etotheipi_> it throws a bunch of warnings, but those are fine
 18 2012-03-25 00:07:29 <etotheipi_> splatster, your issue is swig:
 19 2012-03-25 00:07:33 <splatster> ah ok
 20 2012-03-25 00:07:47 <splatster> what should I do then?
 21 2012-03-25 00:07:59 <etotheipi_> splatster, it very clearly is not setup right if it can't find std_string.i -- it's supposed to find that in the default swig installation paths
 22 2012-03-25 00:08:28 <etotheipi_> perhaps try to reinstall it...?
 23 2012-03-25 00:09:29 <splatster> ya
 24 2012-03-25 00:10:21 <etotheipi_> from the existing directions (which worked for some users), "brew install swig" using 10.6.8 and xcode 4.0.2 produced a good swig installation
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 27 2012-03-25 00:18:02 <Adzz> Hi, anyone there that can help with some questions i have about bitcoin?
 28 2012-03-25 00:22:47 <xenland> adzz: ask away mate
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 41 2012-03-25 00:47:22 <BlueMatt> because seriously, localhost connection reset???
 42 2012-03-25 00:47:59 <xenland> lawl
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 71 2012-03-25 01:57:46 <luke-jr> well, *new* addrman bug… :/
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 73 2012-03-25 02:03:56 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: luke-jr opened issue 982 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/982>
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 91 2012-03-25 03:04:10 <luke-jr> dooglus: !
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 96 2012-03-25 03:07:20 <sipa> luke-jr: bitcoin-qt deadlocks while being single threaded?
 97 2012-03-25 03:07:40 <luke-jr> sipa: yes, try the addr.dat I uploaded
 98 2012-03-25 03:09:54 <sipa> git head?
 99 2012-03-25 03:10:09 <luke-jr> yes
100 2012-03-25 03:11:15 <luke-jr> might run with -testnet just in case it matters
101 2012-03-25 03:11:28 <sipa> forbidden
102 2012-03-25 03:13:01 Tril has joined
103 2012-03-25 03:14:20 <luke-jr> sipa: ?
104 2012-03-25 03:14:27 <luke-jr> oh
105 2012-03-25 03:14:29 <sipa> 403
106 2012-03-25 03:14:45 <luke-jr> try now
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108 2012-03-25 03:15:35 <sipa> works perfectly
109 2012-03-25 03:16:49 <sipa> luke-jr: does encrypting a wallet work?
110 2012-03-25 03:16:55 <Tril> http://pastebin.com/tipH0r8M   - coderrr patch seems to use a qt4.7-ism. Latest qt on Debian squeeze is 4.6.4
111 2012-03-25 03:16:58 <sipa> that also causes a rewrite, which is where your deadlock occurs
112 2012-03-25 03:18:02 <luke-jr> sipa: the wallet is already encrypted
113 2012-03-25 03:18:31 <sipa> doesn't matter, since you can't start in this situation
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115 2012-03-25 03:18:47 <sipa> but in general, can you encrypt a new wallet (with a new addr.dat)?
116 2012-03-25 03:18:50 <luke-jr> Tril: mention it on his pullreq; other code uses it too, but inside #ifs
117 2012-03-25 03:20:04 <luke-jr> sipa: it seems to hang
118 2012-03-25 03:20:27 <luke-jr> wait no, it finally finished
119 2012-03-25 03:20:30 <luke-jr> so about a minute
120 2012-03-25 03:20:42 <luke-jr> no problems once finished
121 2012-03-25 03:28:06 <sipa> shouldn't take that long...
122 2012-03-25 03:28:37 <luke-jr> especially for a new wallet
123 2012-03-25 03:30:05 <knotwork> I jsut did git pull again and now it needs some new  CAddrMan:: thing, that I evidently do not have, where does one get it?
124 2012-03-25 03:30:19 * luke-jr peers at knotwork
125 2012-03-25 03:30:49 <knotwork> its only been a week or two since last I pulled so whatever it is must be somewhat new
126 2012-03-25 03:31:12 <sipa> knotwork: can you paste the exact error?
127 2012-03-25 03:31:18 <sipa> also, how do you build?
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131 2012-03-25 03:32:53 <knotwork> hand on its maybe just that my makefile.fedora is out of sync with latest makefile.unix I will make it fresh again hope I remember what is needed to change makefile.unix into makefile.fedora
132 2012-03-25 03:34:35 <knotwork> ah got it. thought is was some new dependency but its just new code my fedora makefile didnt know about
133 2012-03-25 03:35:00 <luke-jr> knotwork: best to use makefile.unix; I fixed it up for 0.5
134 2012-03-25 03:35:22 <luke-jr> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/570822/ is my GNUmakefile
135 2012-03-25 03:35:49 <knotwork> Fedora does not include correct crypto in its ssh libs, I have to use my own specially compiled dependencies
136 2012-03-25 03:36:20 <knotwork> so I have to add -I../../deps/include and -L../../deps/lib and also define the -mt suffix for boost-thread lib
137 2012-03-25 03:36:20 <luke-jr> …
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139 2012-03-25 03:36:48 <knotwork> there is some stupid patent thing about the elliptic curve algos so fedora leaves them out
140 2012-03-25 03:36:59 <luke-jr> knotwork: OPENSSL_INCLUDE_PATH OPENSSL_LIB_PATH BOOST_LIB_SUFFIX
141 2012-03-25 03:37:51 <knotwork> ah ok so maybe I just make a fedora-env.sh to set them up instead of a makefile.fedora
142 2012-03-25 03:38:08 * luke-jr prefers GNUmakefile so he can just run 'make'
143 2012-03-25 03:38:09 <luke-jr> :p
144 2012-03-25 03:38:42 <knotwork> yeah but that wont warn people its for fedora if I clone it into a git or something
145 2012-03-25 03:39:03 <luke-jr> sounds like your setup is more specific than fedora :p
146 2012-03-25 03:40:01 <sipa> knotwork: just add addrman.o
147 2012-03-25 03:41:14 <knotwork> well long ago there was some kind of guide to making your own ssl libs to work with it, that is where the ../../deps thing came from I think
148 2012-03-25 03:41:28 <knotwork> but Fedora is the only common distro I know of that actually needs it
149 2012-03-25 03:41:51 <sipa> fedora/redhat/centos all miss ecc-enabled openssl i believe
150 2012-03-25 03:42:19 <knotwork> oh ok
151 2012-03-25 03:42:50 <knotwork> used to be I also had to add libdl but havent had to lately
152 2012-03-25 03:45:28 <gmaxwell> http://people.xiph.org/~greg/openssl/fedora16/ < fwiw
153 2012-03-25 03:45:47 <luke-jr> lol
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205 2012-03-25 07:55:24 <weex> hello, i have a question about importprivkey in rpcdump.cpp
206 2012-03-25 07:55:48 <weex> i see that it causes the program to scan for wallet transactions starting from the genesis block
207 2012-03-25 07:56:27 <weex> would it be possible to speed it up by, if i know an address was just generated, setting that to start at a later block index?
208 2012-03-25 07:57:54 <weex> i'm interested in being able to see unconfirmed transactions from more than one bitcoind on the network and hoping importprivkey can help
209 2012-03-25 08:02:11 Cory has joined
210 2012-03-25 08:12:17 <weex> another way i'm looking at doing this is with libbitcoin, subvertx, and txrad but since i can already build bitcoind i'd like to start there
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235 2012-03-25 10:05:01 <Joric> sipa, https://github.com/joric/pywallet <- added compressed keys support as in 0.5.99 (private keys use your draft with 33-byte entries)
236 2012-03-25 10:05:52 <sje> anything in latest bitcoin that could be affecting my connections? i've had it off for a few weeks, just updated and rebuilt and i'm getting lots of orhpans from p2pool now...seems to be lack of connections into/out of bitcoind
237 2012-03-25 10:06:14 <sje> desktop has only shown 1 connection since the update
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243 2012-03-25 10:27:08 <wumpus> removing addr.dat might help
244 2012-03-25 10:27:44 <sje> i'll try that, cheers
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249 2012-03-25 10:41:04 <sje> grr...still no connections
250 2012-03-25 10:41:09 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: laanwj opened pull request 983 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/983>
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253 2012-03-25 11:42:25 <ThomasV> can we get a new block please?
254 2012-03-25 11:42:34 <SomeoneWeird> no
255 2012-03-25 11:42:36 <SomeoneWeird> >.>
256 2012-03-25 11:42:54 <Graet> hang on a minute - I'll just arrange one
257 2012-03-25 11:42:55 <Graet> :P
258 2012-03-25 11:42:59 <ThomasV> please..
259 2012-03-25 11:43:13 * Graet whips the workers
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262 2012-03-25 11:46:16 <ThomasV> do I have to mine it myself?
263 2012-03-25 11:46:29 Zarutian has joined
264 2012-03-25 11:46:35 <ThomasV> with my laptop cpu?
265 2012-03-25 11:46:45 <ThomasV> come on guys
266 2012-03-25 11:48:02 <Graet> looks like :(
267 2012-03-25 11:49:50 <ThomasV> why does it take 1h to get a block precisely when I am testing a function that does new block notification?
268 2012-03-25 11:50:19 <ThomasV> ah there it is
269 2012-03-25 11:50:59 <Graet> yep
270 2012-03-25 11:51:06 <Graet> wasnt me tho :(
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289 2012-03-25 13:11:15 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, sipa, two questions about how the deterministic wallet will work:  (1) You end up with money in your change chain... when you spend that, where does the change go?  Into the change chain again?  a new chain?  (2) If you have X in your primary chain and X in your change chain and you need to send 1.5X, the wallet has to pull from both chains...are you preventing this?
290 2012-03-25 13:16:03 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
291 2012-03-25 13:17:53 <gmaxwell> (1) yes, the change change— why not? and to do otherwise would cause accidental reuse of an address if someone is tracking the primary and sends at the same time. (2) It would spend from both as needed— there isn't any terrible harm if some change addresses are asscoiated.
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294 2012-03-25 13:27:21 <sipa> inputs are allowed to come from anyway, change outputs only go into a change chain
295 2012-03-25 13:27:26 <sipa> *anywhere
296 2012-03-25 13:28:00 <sipa> there are possible anonimity improvements to limit the number of different chains inputs are pulled from, but that's for later
297 2012-03-25 13:28:42 <sipa> sje: which version are you running?
298 2012-03-25 13:29:27 da2ce7 is now known as peterpan
299 2012-03-25 13:29:31 <sje> pulled master from git yesterday i think
300 2012-03-25 13:29:51 <sipa> how long did it take to get a connection?
301 2012-03-25 13:29:55 <sipa> without addr.dat
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303 2012-03-25 13:30:24 <sje> without the incoming port forwarded, it didn't get one in a couple of hours i think
304 2012-03-25 13:30:35 <sje> i forwarded the port...now it's got three
305 2012-03-25 13:30:56 <sje> been watching the logs and at least two of those were incoming...probably the third as well
306 2012-03-25 13:31:10 <sipa> hours?
307 2012-03-25 13:31:41 <sje> debug log is showing lots of addresses being tried, all timing out
308 2012-03-25 13:32:38 peterpan is now known as s2w
309 2012-03-25 13:33:12 <sje> at least an hour, i think two...dunno, been trying to help the wife with her course work...that's so random when it comes to making time fly :)
310 2012-03-25 13:33:40 <sipa> dns seeds must be returned bad seeds then
311 2012-03-25 13:34:20 <sje> the timeout seems pretty quick...i'm in AU
312 2012-03-25 13:34:41 <sipa> 5 seconds, you can change it with -timeout=
313 2012-03-25 13:35:11 <sje> hm...ping delay from being way over here is usually only a couple of hundred milliseconds...
314 2012-03-25 13:35:35 <sje> 5 seconds should be plenty
315 2012-03-25 13:37:32 <sje> i was getting heaps of orphans on p2pool also....might be trouble with my connection
316 2012-03-25 13:37:41 <Diablo-D3> oj?
317 2012-03-25 13:37:44 <Diablo-D3> oh?
318 2012-03-25 13:38:36 s2w is now known as da2ce7
319 2012-03-25 13:38:40 <sje> last run had 14 orphans out of 16 total 'won' shares
320 2012-03-25 13:38:59 <Diablo-D3> heh, I have zero shares atm
321 2012-03-25 13:39:05 <sje> this setup was working a few weeks ago, but turned it off 'cause of hot weather
322 2012-03-25 13:39:17 <sje> i updated bitcoin, p2pool, and cgminer
323 2012-03-25 13:39:28 tsche has joined
324 2012-03-25 13:39:34 <sje> and it's been crappy
325 2012-03-25 13:39:56 <sje> might be coincidence that i started up again when my connection is stuffed
326 2012-03-25 13:40:17 <sje> or the ISP started shaping bitcoin related traffic in the mean time...or something
327 2012-03-25 13:40:55 <sje> p2pool seemed to be making connections ok, incoming and outgoing
328 2012-03-25 13:41:07 <Graet> what isp?
329 2012-03-25 13:41:09 <sipa> no, without an addr.dat i'm also unable to get connections
330 2012-03-25 13:41:11 <sje> but bitcoin seems to not be able to make any outgoind
331 2012-03-25 13:41:24 <sje> Graet: optus
332 2012-03-25 13:41:25 <sje> :(
333 2012-03-25 13:41:33 <sje> too far from the exchange for adsl
334 2012-03-25 13:41:41 <Graet> ahh nk, yer who knows withn them ;)
335 2012-03-25 13:41:48 <Graet> ouch
336 2012-03-25 13:41:54 <sje> same with telstra though
337 2012-03-25 13:42:03 <sipa> wait, IRC connect failed?
338 2012-03-25 13:42:04 <sje> and those are my choices, here
339 2012-03-25 13:42:32 <Graet> :/
340 2012-03-25 13:42:35 <sje> sipa: how do i check that?
341 2012-03-25 13:43:10 <sje> Graet: back at ozcoin for the moment, suspecting the p2pool orphans were due to being too far away from most everyone else
342 2012-03-25 13:43:32 <Graet> ahh ok , hope we work good for you :)
343 2012-03-25 13:43:33 <sipa> sje: irc is deprecated disabled by default, i turned it on using -irc
344 2012-03-25 13:43:38 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
345 2012-03-25 13:43:40 <sipa> but it is very strange that it fails
346 2012-03-25 13:44:51 <sje> sipa: i did try it but not for very long...but yes watching all the connection timeouts in the debug log, it seems it has plenty of addresses to try
347 2012-03-25 13:45:00 <sje> even without irc
348 2012-03-25 13:46:03 <sje> Graet: ozcoin has always worked really well for me...only moved to p2pool to test it out, learn a little more about about distributed chains etc, a little to support the philosophy :)
349 2012-03-25 13:47:13 gjs278 has joined
350 2012-03-25 13:48:11 <sipa> sje: found my problem, proxy was set
351 2012-03-25 13:48:12 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
352 2012-03-25 13:49:08 <sje> ah...getinfo here shows no proxy
353 2012-03-25 13:49:17 <Graet> cool sje :D
354 2012-03-25 13:50:04 <sipa> sje: so, with no addr.dat, and all default settings, it still takes you hours to connect?
355 2012-03-25 13:50:12 <sipa> here it happens within seconds
356 2012-03-25 13:50:36 <sje> just since i updated from git yesterday
357 2012-03-25 13:50:53 t7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
358 2012-03-25 13:51:28 <sje> it connects reasonably quickly if i open the incoming port, but i've been running for over an hour now and have 3 connections i think all incoming
359 2012-03-25 13:52:05 <sje> running for over an hour with the incoming port open, that is
360 2012-03-25 13:52:38 <sje> and yeah, all default settings
361 2012-03-25 13:52:46 <sipa> and you deleted addr.dat before?
362 2012-03-25 13:52:54 <sje> yep
363 2012-03-25 13:53:06 <sipa> can you paste your debug.log?
364 2012-03-25 13:53:31 <sje> all of it?
365 2012-03-25 13:54:34 <sipa> first few hundred lines at the start of the last connect should be fine
366 2012-03-25 13:55:06 Turingi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
367 2012-03-25 13:57:09 <sje> sipa: http://pastebin.com/NHf4ETm7
368 2012-03-25 13:58:42 <sipa> any special settings in bitcoin.conf?
369 2012-03-25 14:00:03 <sje> nup, don't think i have one
370 2012-03-25 14:00:13 <sje> that would be in .bitcoin if i did wouldn't it/
371 2012-03-25 14:00:15 <sje> ?
372 2012-03-25 14:01:41 gjs278 has joined
373 2012-03-25 14:01:47 <Graet> yes
374 2012-03-25 14:02:00 <sje> then nope, don't have one
375 2012-03-25 14:02:23 <sipa> how can you access getinfo, in that case?
376 2012-03-25 14:02:37 <sipa> without rpcuser/rpcpassword
377 2012-03-25 14:03:08 <sje> i have it on another machine, with the same problem
378 2012-03-25 14:04:21 <sipa> no firewall problem?
379 2012-03-25 14:04:43 <sje> never had one before - usually allow all outgoing
380 2012-03-25 14:05:19 <sje> the server could probably use a reboot, silly wifi router i'm using for a hub could probably use power cycling :)
381 2012-03-25 14:06:32 <sje> i gotta crash though, and the wife is still making me turn it off at night atm...not quite chilly enough yet...so i might give the server and router a restart and fire up again tomorrow....will let you know
382 2012-03-25 14:06:47 <sje> thanks for looking into it
383 2012-03-25 14:12:12 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sipa opened pull request 984 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/984>
384 2012-03-25 14:15:28 <da2ce7> g2g bbs
385 2012-03-25 14:15:29 da2ce7 has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
386 2012-03-25 14:20:39 <sipa> etotheipi_: by the way, if #974 is merged, 0.6.0 will not use compressed pubkeys by default (only when starting a fresh wallet, using -upgradewallet, or encrypting)
387 2012-03-25 14:29:03 JRWR has joined
388 2012-03-25 14:36:07 <sipa> Joric: re compressed pubkeys: nice; you don't seem to look at minversion though (should be more informative than version, in the future)
389 2012-03-25 14:41:38 SomeoneWeird is now known as SomeoneWeirdzzzz
390 2012-03-25 14:49:20 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, so money spent from the change chain will send it's change back to the same chain?  doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of it?  And similarly, it seems that the longer you use the wallet, tons of change addresses are going to get linked back to the original chain since the wallet will frequently be pulling one output from each... this also seems to defeat the purpose of it
391 2012-03-25 14:51:30 <etotheipi_> I suppose you could try to optimize the wallet so it only pulls from one chain at a time if possible, but of course it can't always succeed
392 2012-03-25 14:52:47 <etotheipi_> sipa, why the change in compressed key support?  is there are problem with mixing them within a wallet?
393 2012-03-25 14:53:20 <Joric> sipa, yeah, i think i still have to write a proper DER serializer maybe even submit a patch to python-ecdsa
394 2012-03-25 14:53:38 <sipa> etotheipi_: not at all; it's just to prevent breaking backward compatibility (with older version, other programs, ...)
395 2012-03-25 14:53:56 <etotheipi_> ooh, yeah Luke mentioned that
396 2012-03-25 14:54:51 <sipa> it may become sort of a wallet versioning policy: opening a wallet in a newer version will not update its format, unless the user takes an explicit action from which he can expect such breaking (like encryption)
397 2012-03-25 14:55:07 <sipa> s/breaking/updating/
398 2012-03-25 14:57:38 da2ce7 has joined
399 2012-03-25 15:00:22 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Quitte)
400 2012-03-25 15:06:44 <etotheipi_> sipa, so that means that my wallet conversion tool will continue to work on old wallets, as long as it was never touched by any of the 0.6.0 pre-RC5 versions...?
401 2012-03-25 15:07:25 <etotheipi_> well, to clarify:  if 0.6.0rc3 was used on a wallet, and it generated any addresses:  it *did* use compressed keys, right?
402 2012-03-25 15:08:45 <sipa> yes
403 2012-03-25 15:08:46 diki has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
404 2012-03-25 15:09:01 <sipa> 0.5.99 up to git head do so
405 2012-03-25 15:09:12 diki has joined
406 2012-03-25 15:09:38 diki is now known as Guest3161
407 2012-03-25 15:14:05 <sje> sipa: fyi, rebooted server & router, checked firewall...still no luck...also it seems -listen=0 stops -irc from working?
408 2012-03-25 15:14:13 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: no because you're not learning about change addresses via some high latency process.
409 2012-03-25 15:14:20 <sje> tried with -timeout=10000, didn't help
410 2012-03-25 15:14:46 <sipa> sje: very strange, does an explicit -connect work?
411 2012-03-25 15:15:11 <sje> to any address?
412 2012-03-25 15:15:21 <sipa> to any that is likely to accept them
413 2012-03-25 15:15:26 <sipa> see http://bitcoin.sipa.be/seeds.txt for exaple
414 2012-03-25 15:15:35 <sje> ah thanks
415 2012-03-25 15:15:43 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, if you have one transaction that pulls 5 outputs from change chain and one address from the main chain, all those change chain addresses are now linked:  especially because they were used by the main chain originally
416 2012-03-25 15:16:19 <etotheipi_> it seems like, after doing dozens of transactions, depending on the tx amounts, you're going ot end up with like half of your change transactions identified/linked to the main chain
417 2012-03-25 15:16:20 <sipa> right, but that's not more than what you learn from inputs taken from randomly generated address, is it?
418 2012-03-25 15:16:21 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: they're linked, but also exausted.
419 2012-03-25 15:16:53 <sipa> i agree an improvement on anonimity is possible by reducing linking, but that seems independent
420 2012-03-25 15:16:56 <gmaxwell> sipa: well it can link (indirectly) e.g. two payments to main chain addresses which would otherwise be seperate.
421 2012-03-25 15:17:09 <gmaxwell> But thats unavoidable at least as a corner case.
422 2012-03-25 15:17:25 <gmaxwell> You always must have linking in order to spend all your money. :)
423 2012-03-25 15:17:43 <sipa> the question is what does someone who knows all your public address but not your change addresses learn
424 2012-03-25 15:17:43 <sje> sipa: first two on that list timeout also :(
425 2012-03-25 15:18:11 <etotheipi_> I guess I'm going back to beat this dead horse again... It seems like a marginal benefit to me
426 2012-03-25 15:18:24 <etotheipi_> with a lot of complexity to accommodate it
427 2012-03-25 15:18:49 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: I don't see how thats related to your question—
428 2012-03-25 15:18:53 <etotheipi_> many of your change addresses will end up identified unless you write some kind of system to optimize it
429 2012-03-25 15:19:07 <sje> nm...must be something i'm doing wrong...nite all
430 2012-03-25 15:19:36 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: of course, but thats universally true— many addresses will be linked if you're not making effort to minimize the linkage.
431 2012-03-25 15:19:37 <etotheipi_> and you will still link some anyway... so you're only hiding some of the change addresses, and you don't really get to decide which ones (it will be based on SelectCoins trying to construct future tx for you)
432 2012-03-25 15:20:00 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: we have support for completely controlling that, it's just a freestanding patch still.
433 2012-03-25 15:20:43 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, I'm planning how to accommodate your system in Armory, and sipa suggested I can just import it as two separate wallets
434 2012-03-25 15:20:50 <sipa> how will you distinguish change outputs from other outputs?
435 2012-03-25 15:21:03 graingert has joined
436 2012-03-25 15:21:06 <sipa> there is never more than one transaction to it, in normal operation
437 2012-03-25 15:21:08 <etotheipi_> but that's confusing to the user
438 2012-03-25 15:21:18 <gmaxwell> sipa: because of jagged coins you can very often tell.
439 2012-03-25 15:21:27 <sipa> true
440 2012-03-25 15:21:43 <sipa> 55.18 -> 50 + 5.18 probably means 50 is the output
441 2012-03-25 15:21:51 <gmaxwell> (though there are ways to improve that)
442 2012-03-25 15:21:53 <etotheipi_> I guess I'm not seeing how you plan to implement it yourself, in a way that achieves your stated goal
443 2012-03-25 15:22:13 <gmaxwell> sipa: or more like 55.1234567 -> 54 and 1.1234567 :)
444 2012-03-25 15:22:24 <etotheipi_> (btw, Armory does have an optimization in it to try to make change indistinguishable)
445 2012-03-25 15:22:32 <sipa> nice
446 2012-03-25 15:22:46 <etotheipi_> I was quite proud of that... it's basically just comparing the number of trailing zeros on the two outputs (if expressed as satoshis)
447 2012-03-25 15:23:01 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: even if you're completely stupid about it seperating it decreases the leak. Optimizing for it decreases it further. And I just mentioned that coin controll patches that do this (As well as giving manual control)
448 2012-03-25 15:23:03 <etotheipi_> if the number of trailing zeros is approximately the same, give it a higher score
449 2012-03-25 15:23:23 <gmaxwell> (oh you mean jaggedness handling, K)
450 2012-03-25 15:23:33 <etotheipi_> and if there happens to be more trailing zeros on the change output, then extra credit for being deceptive :)
451 2012-03-25 15:24:17 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, I'm really not clear why the leaking is so important, especially when you're not necessarily reducing it much
452 2012-03-25 15:25:00 sje has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
453 2012-03-25 15:25:07 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_:  So, I think you should go back and reread the prior discussion we had on this. I don't really want to rehash it yet again.
454 2012-03-25 15:25:12 <etotheipi_> I guess it comes down to priorities:  I *personally* feel like it doesn't benefit me at all to have separate change outputs... you clearly believe it's important to have the option
455 2012-03-25 15:26:05 <sipa> assume that jaggedness is not a problem (since it sounds fixable), you can give someone your public chain, and he cannot (easily) know your real outputs
456 2012-03-25 15:26:14 <etotheipi_> I feel like it's not even close to being worth the extra complexity, when half your change outputs will end up linked, anyway
457 2012-03-25 15:26:51 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: I don't see why you think there is a lot of extra complexity here— just treat it as a second chain.
458 2012-03-25 15:27:12 <etotheipi_> because now you're talking about optimizing to minimize cross-chain linking
459 2012-03-25 15:27:54 <sipa> i think they are orthogonal improvements
460 2012-03-25 15:27:55 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: the optimizing is mostly orthogonal— it's useful with and without the change chain.
461 2012-03-25 15:28:21 <gmaxwell> morover, linking with chainge is strictly less bad— those addresses are all use-once for sure.
462 2012-03-25 15:29:58 <etotheipi_> requiring multiple chains to represent a single wallet and organize where coins from or go to is extra complexity to something that I feel should be fairly simple
463 2012-03-25 15:30:45 <etotheipi_> but like I said, I guess it comes down to priorities... I've heard your arguments about why it's important, but I disagree and would like to persuade you out of it...  but you'll do what you'll do and we can respectfully disagree
464 2012-03-25 15:31:45 graingert has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
465 2012-03-25 15:31:57 graingert has joined
466 2012-03-25 15:33:50 <sipa> privacy in bitcoin is a difficulty problem: there are various ways through which people may learn information about your wallet, and it may be impossible to hide everything
467 2012-03-25 15:33:55 <sipa> *difficult
468 2012-03-25 15:34:23 <sipa> but with a single-chain determinstic wallet, anyone who knows the public part of the chain, knows every payment you do
469 2012-03-25 15:34:45 <etotheipi_> they know every payment to that wallet
470 2012-03-25 15:34:52 <etotheipi_> *to/from
471 2012-03-25 15:34:55 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: the only argument I've seen against it is the (modest) complexity of tracking a seperate list of change. The argument for it— that it can improve privacy, isn't disputable only that the magitude of it may be small.
472 2012-03-25 15:35:14 <sipa> etotheipi_: indeed
473 2012-03-25 15:35:48 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: they knows the INs but not the outs with the seperated change.
474 2012-03-25 15:35:54 <sipa> splitting the chain in two is one step that at least makes it possible to hide things; there may be more necessary to achieve real privacy, but it's a necessary step if you want to share public determinstic wallets
475 2012-03-25 15:36:45 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, the argument against it is that it doesn't make sense... to me, you're splitting apart an "atomic unit" of Bitcoin operations in such a way that provides very little benefit... and any benefit you get from it could be done much simpler just by using multiple wallets
476 2012-03-25 15:36:48 <gmaxwell> And it's a change that can't be made later while keeping the wallets compatible.
477 2012-03-25 15:39:00 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: What is the atomic unit being split? Addresses should be independant and unrelated (to the greatest extent possible) in order to uphold the bitcoin privacy model.
478 2012-03-25 15:39:29 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
479 2012-03-25 15:39:51 <sipa> i believe a part of the dispute comes from the fact that we reason from the point of view of the current satoshi code, and etotheipi_ from the point of view from his client; for us, it's easier to add a second chain (since we have to add the first one still as well), for him it's easier to use two wallets
480 2012-03-25 15:40:24 <gmaxwell> I don't see why etotheipi_s code can't just treat this as two wallets.
481 2012-03-25 15:40:31 <gmaxwell> Foo and Foo (change)
482 2012-03-25 15:40:45 <etotheipi_> sipa, that's 20% of it for me... I don't want to make my code more complex to accommodate something that doesn't make sense to me
483 2012-03-25 15:41:00 <etotheipi_> and the reason I don't want to do that is that it would be confusing as hell to the users
484 2012-03-25 15:41:19 <sipa> depends how well your abstraction works
485 2012-03-25 15:42:02 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: IIRC You already depend on some crazy stuff to identify change in order to show a correct transaction register precisely because you lack this seperation.
486 2012-03-25 15:42:32 <etotheipi_> "crazy stuff" is just identifying which output has the higher change index
487 2012-03-25 15:42:35 <etotheipi_> *chainindex
488 2012-03-25 15:42:52 <etotheipi_> and only for transactions sent-to-self
489 2012-03-25 15:43:06 <sipa> etotheipi_: if you want to achieve the same effect, you'll need two wallets, and some way to create an automated transaction that spends any funds sent to the first one, to the second
490 2012-03-25 15:43:23 <sipa> that has the same anonimity effect, but requires more bitcoin transactions
491 2012-03-25 15:43:47 <etotheipi_> I don't want to do *any* automated transactions, ever
492 2012-03-25 15:44:12 <sipa> then how can you achieve the ability to give someone a public chain, without revealing all your payments?
493 2012-03-25 15:44:14 <etotheipi_> I don't want money moving while the user isn't looking... it looks suspicious
494 2012-03-25 15:44:34 <sipa> if you don't feel this is an important possibility, then i guess we have nothing left to discuss
495 2012-03-25 15:45:57 graingert has left ()
496 2012-03-25 15:46:34 <etotheipi_> you avoid revealing all your payments by using different wallets... and moving money between them as necessary
497 2012-03-25 15:46:50 <gmaxwell> (sorry, I'm tied up so I can't keep discussing now. :( )
498 2012-03-25 15:47:13 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, no worries... I should get back to development anyway
499 2012-03-25 15:47:38 <etotheipi_> if I'm exchanging watching-only wallets with my mom so that we can exchange money... I give her a dedicated watching-only wallet
500 2012-03-25 15:48:02 <etotheipi_> if I want the balance on that wallet is unimportant... only that payments were sent/received
501 2012-03-25 15:48:04 <gmaxwell> (I'm at the fsf members meeting right now— amusing sidebar with the FSF and creative commons bouncing bitcoin back and forth between each other)
502 2012-03-25 15:48:15 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, cool
503 2012-03-25 15:49:01 <sipa> etotheipi_: sure, that works too, but 1) it requires more transactions 2) it's harder for a user
504 2012-03-25 15:50:05 <sipa> while if it were done using two chains, and you have an "export watch-income-only chain" and a "export watch-income-and-sends-only chain", you don't need to explain the internal machinery
505 2012-03-25 15:50:48 <sipa> using better buzzword-compliant terminology, of course
506 2012-03-25 15:50:59 <etotheipi_> sipa, sounds pretty complicated to describe to the user
507 2012-03-25 15:51:23 <etotheipi_> as a user:  if I give someone a watching-only wallet, I expect that they will see all the transactions on it... that's why I gave it to them
508 2012-03-25 15:51:45 <sipa> harder than explaining him that he first needs to send all his income to another wallet, if he wants to maintain his privacy?
509 2012-03-25 15:52:26 <etotheipi_> sipa, users think in terms of wallets... subwallets is confusing
510 2012-03-25 15:52:38 <sipa> there is no subwallet from the point of view of the user
511 2012-03-25 15:52:53 <sipa> only whether or not he can observe payments
512 2012-03-25 15:53:20 <etotheipi_> sure there is, you just said there would be two different options for exporting a watchingonly wallet
513 2012-03-25 15:53:30 <sipa> yes
514 2012-03-25 15:54:42 <etotheipi_> and the option for exporting one chain doesn't necessarily even do what they want:  the person receiving it half the time doesn't know what outputs are change and which are not... I'm not sure how that benefits the user
515 2012-03-25 15:55:16 <sipa> i doubt you'll typically give it to a user; rather put it on a webserver that needs to generate unique receive addresses
516 2012-03-25 15:55:30 <sipa> though for some types of auditing it may be interesting, i suppose
517 2012-03-25 15:55:52 <etotheipi_> sipa, perhaps it comes down to this: to me, this sounds like something I would put under the advanced, or maybe even only Developer mode
518 2012-03-25 15:55:56 <etotheipi_> I think default should be one chain
519 2012-03-25 15:56:06 <etotheipi_> and users who understand and desire this functionality, can enable two chains
520 2012-03-25 15:56:43 <sipa> but it still requires doing a extra send-to-other-wallet explicitly, in your model
521 2012-03-25 15:57:15 <sipa> and a user who doesn't care about it, never sees (or even knows) about the idea of several subchains
522 2012-03-25 15:57:17 <etotheipi_> perhaps we need a specific use case, because I'm not sure why yours doesn't
523 2012-03-25 15:57:42 <etotheipi_> I need to actually lay this all out with two parties, multiple wallets and a use-case for it
524 2012-03-25 15:58:08 <sipa> ok, i'm a merchant, i have a full chain (both subchains, including private keys)
525 2012-03-25 15:58:12 <etotheipi_> perhaps there's something I'm really missing because I don't see the chain of events that would lead to yours not requiring extra transactions
526 2012-03-25 15:58:27 <sipa> i have a webserver running on linode, whom i do not trust
527 2012-03-25 15:58:51 <sipa> i want to give someone who breaks into my webserver as little information as possible
528 2012-03-25 15:59:24 <etotheipi_> so the server is just for generating addresses
529 2012-03-25 15:59:28 <sipa> indeed
530 2012-03-25 15:59:55 <sipa> what you suggest: create a separate wallet for the webserver, and move funds to your spending wallet
531 2012-03-25 16:00:15 <sipa> what we suggest: only export the public chain of a single wallet
532 2012-03-25 16:01:06 <etotheipi_> so how is the full wallet used?  to execute all transactions for your business, ever?
533 2012-03-25 16:01:20 <sipa> for example, or part of it
534 2012-03-25 16:01:38 copumpkin has joined
535 2012-03-25 16:01:51 <sipa> the difference: it's only one wallet, and the implicit transactions that move funds from the public chain to the internal chain are the same as the payments done themselves
536 2012-03-25 16:02:35 <etotheipi_> I guess, I've always been of the opinion that you'd be using separate wallets for each device/register
537 2012-03-25 16:02:42 <etotheipi_> anyway
538 2012-03-25 16:03:59 <etotheipi_> then you combine the money from individual wallets into some other wallet which is your primary wallet for business
539 2012-03-25 16:04:32 <etotheipi_> but I'll think on the webserver scenario, and see if I envision your idea as a replacement for the multi-wallets
540 2012-03-25 16:06:58 <etotheipi_> I guess I've mostly been thinking along the lines of regular users:  they use watching-only wallets for themselves, and would create separate watching-only wallets for different applications (like my mother-son exchange scenario)--it seems quite simple to grok and money management makes sense right away (even if it requires an extra transaction here and there)
541 2012-03-25 16:07:28 <etotheipi_> your usage scenario seems more targeted at developers
542 2012-03-25 16:07:30 <Tykling> guys, where do "comment" and "comment-to" go if specified when using sendfrom in the API ?
543 2012-03-25 16:07:59 <sipa> etotheipi_: it allows for an easier abstraction: a user who knows how to use it will more easily be able to learn how it is implemented internally, in your case
544 2012-03-25 16:08:29 <sipa> Tykling: in the wallet?
545 2012-03-25 16:08:44 <Tykling> sipa: right, it is only local info, correct ?
546 2012-03-25 16:08:47 <sipa> Tykling: yes
547 2012-03-25 16:08:52 <Tykling> sipa: thanks
548 2012-03-25 16:08:54 <etotheipi_> sipa, I'm going to lay out some specific use cases and examples usage scenarios... but I need to get back to RAM-reduction right now
549 2012-03-25 16:09:09 <sipa> etotheipi_: but not necessarily easier to use
550 2012-03-25 16:09:27 <etotheipi_> I'll come back when I have (1) conceded defeat (2) have something more specific to support not using them, or that it shouldn't be default
551 2012-03-25 16:09:34 <etotheipi_> *or
552 2012-03-25 16:09:50 <sipa> no need to concede defeat; it's just a different philosophy
553 2012-03-25 16:10:06 <gmaxwell> Yea. This isn't a war. :)
554 2012-03-25 16:10:09 <etotheipi_> sipa, it's very possible I just haven't thought through a full end-to-end usage scenario
555 2012-03-25 16:10:29 <sipa> you can support single-chain wallets, and allow import of a double-chain as two wallet imports
556 2012-03-25 16:10:42 <sipa> (with some manual intervention or not)
557 2012-03-25 16:11:27 <etotheipi_> sipa, my concern is that when a user imports a Satoshi wallet into Armory, it becomes two wallets and it doesn't make any sense why it's two wallet, and I don't see why it should be either... so that's why I'm arguing that "regular" wallets should be single chain unless the user explicitly selects dual chain
558 2012-03-25 16:12:14 <Tykling> one more question: when calling the bitcoind binary with api commands on the command line, does it set the exit code to non-zero if something goes wrong ? like insufficient balance to make a transfer ?
559 2012-03-25 16:12:17 <sipa> right; it becomes harder to maintain the abstraction for a user who wants to combine tools that have a different idea of what the abstraction is
560 2012-03-25 16:12:19 <etotheipi_> or you could argue, I should just support dual-chain wallets the same way if I don't want to induce that kind of confusion... both are valid
561 2012-03-25 16:13:02 <etotheipi_> perhaps it's just a difference in philosophy... somehow I'll find a way to merge them
562 2012-03-25 16:13:47 <Joric> sipa why not use 0x81 for compressed privkeys?
563 2012-03-25 16:14:11 <etotheipi_> Joric, I would very much enjoy that...
564 2012-03-25 16:14:36 <sipa> Joric: i did that initially, but believed it's wrong to call it a new version of private key, if there is no correspond new version of the public key
565 2012-03-25 16:14:41 <sipa> and there is no need for the latter
566 2012-03-25 16:14:53 <sipa> *corresponding
567 2012-03-25 16:14:59 <sipa> s/public key/address/
568 2012-03-25 16:17:09 <Joric> you probably right
569 2012-03-25 16:19:27 <Joric> i even believed that senior byte means private key
570 2012-03-25 16:21:11 <Joric> that addrtype byte probably needs detailed specification
571 2012-03-25 16:21:32 <sipa> it's a bit of a mess right now
572 2012-03-25 16:22:17 <Joric> e.g. ixcoin use addrtype 138
573 2012-03-25 16:23:09 <sipa> Tykling: try it
574 2012-03-25 16:26:04 <Joric> there was no private key type for ixcoin i had to fix overflow (138+128) & 255
575 2012-03-25 16:30:00 <Joric> it's not very bitset friendly, bits 6 and 5 already used by testnet 0x01101111 (111d)
576 2012-03-25 16:33:14 jan23 has joined
577 2012-03-25 16:33:28 <jan23> hello
578 2012-03-25 16:34:39 <jan23> after upgrading from 0.4.0 to 0.5.3 (qt) the GUI doesn't show any of my addresses, no transactions and zero value. any idea how to fix it?
579 2012-03-25 16:35:02 <Joric> the whole thing with compressed keys is rather questionnable i.e. why use another address for the same 32-byte secret
580 2012-03-25 16:35:41 <sipa> Joric: it's the only way to roll it out in a backward compatible way
581 2012-03-25 16:36:40 <sipa> jan23: hmm, strange. do you have a backup?
582 2012-03-25 16:36:58 <jan23> no :-(
583 2012-03-25 16:37:01 splatster has joined
584 2012-03-25 16:37:11 <sipa> make one now
585 2012-03-25 16:37:25 <jan23> yes!
586 2012-03-25 16:37:26 <sipa> and then try opening it in 0.4 again
587 2012-03-25 16:37:47 <jan23> and then?
588 2012-03-25 16:38:06 <sipa> well, are the transactions there?
589 2012-03-25 16:39:29 <jan23> the old 0.4 worked without a problem for several months. it showed the transactions. if i would open the old data with it, it will work. or do you mean go from 0.4 -> 0.5 -> 0.4 ?
590 2012-03-25 16:40:38 <sipa> if you don't have a backup 0.4 -> 0.5 -> 0.4 is the only option, right?
591 2012-03-25 16:41:17 <jan23> right. let me check...
592 2012-03-25 16:42:23 forsetifox has joined
593 2012-03-25 16:57:21 Nicksasa has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
594 2012-03-25 16:58:29 Nicksasa has joined
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598 2012-03-25 17:01:33 specular has joined
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600 2012-03-25 17:10:06 <jan23> sipa: when opening with 0.4: EXCEPTION: 22DbRunRecoveryException       DbEnv::open: DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database recovery       bitcoin in AppInit()
601 2012-03-25 17:10:08 <jan23> But i will try to find a backup...
602 2012-03-25 17:12:51 usertg has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
603 2012-03-25 17:20:19 ferroh has joined
604 2012-03-25 17:27:16 usertg has joined
605 2012-03-25 17:29:10 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: TheBlueMatt opened pull request 985 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/985>
606 2012-03-25 17:34:19 <jan23> sipa:  i will have the backup restored by tomorrow. any suggestion how to open it with 0.5.3?
607 2012-03-25 17:34:33 <sipa> it should just work
608 2012-03-25 17:34:47 <sipa> i'm just trying to find out why it didn't for you
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630 2012-03-25 19:10:53 bluemoon23 has joined
631 2012-03-25 19:10:57 <bluemoon23> hey
632 2012-03-25 19:10:57 <bluemoon23> hey
633 2012-03-25 19:11:04 <bluemoon23> oops
634 2012-03-25 19:17:30 <andytoshi> heya
635 2012-03-25 19:17:55 terry is now known as black_rg
636 2012-03-25 19:19:27 xenland has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
637 2012-03-25 19:20:31 <bluemoon23> can i buy bitcoins with a moneypak?
638 2012-03-25 19:22:08 <sipa> bluemoon23: ask in #bitcoin-otc
639 2012-03-25 19:22:25 <bluemoon23> k
640 2012-03-25 19:22:33 <bluemoon23> otc?
641 2012-03-25 19:24:29 <sipa> over the counter
642 2012-03-25 19:32:47 ThomasV has joined
643 2012-03-25 19:38:10 <BlueMatt> woo fixed #956 and #981 in a like 3 line patch to boost headers (can be done in bitcoin's gitian file)
644 2012-03-25 19:38:13 tower has quit (Disconnected by services)
645 2012-03-25 19:38:26 tower has joined
646 2012-03-25 19:39:00 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no way to handle it Bitcoin-Qt side/
647 2012-03-25 19:39:01 <luke-jr> ?
648 2012-03-25 19:39:49 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: maybeish, its probably easier to patch boost's source for now and file a boost bug report :(
649 2012-03-25 19:40:12 <BlueMatt> Im still trying to find the real root cause (something to do with how boost calls/win32 responds to api requests)
650 2012-03-25 19:40:33 <BlueMatt> but a pretty simple 3-line patch to cache values instead of always re-requesting them seems to work fine
651 2012-03-25 19:40:44 <luke-jr> O.o
652 2012-03-25 19:42:55 <BlueMatt> note that /all/ of boost::interprocess is in headers, so no need to modify boost+recompile, you just have to modify the headers
653 2012-03-25 19:44:48 <sipa> bah
654 2012-03-25 19:45:42 <BlueMatt> yea, thats what I thought
655 2012-03-25 19:46:17 <sipa> does diapolo's patch also fix the problem(s) ?
656 2012-03-25 19:46:46 <BlueMatt> his patch is a workaround for #956, not #981
657 2012-03-25 19:47:08 <BlueMatt> they are both caused by the same issue in boost, but are fairly different by the time we see them
658 2012-03-25 19:47:20 <sipa> what is the issue in 981?
659 2012-03-25 19:47:40 <sipa> oh, i see
660 2012-03-25 19:47:43 <BlueMatt> when we try to open the uri message_queue it fails
661 2012-03-25 19:47:47 <bluemoon23> hey
662 2012-03-25 19:47:52 <BlueMatt> so we can never actually send uris in the message_queue
663 2012-03-25 19:48:06 <sipa> it looked like a patch/improvement rather than a bug report
664 2012-03-25 19:48:40 <bluemoon23> when i try to install bitcoin the latest version it says "Runtime Error! Program: c:\program files\bitcoin\bitcoin-qt.exe This application has requested the Runtime to terminate in an unusual way. Please contact the applications support team for more informatioN" does nayone know how to fix?
665 2012-03-25 19:49:08 <BlueMatt> bluemoon23: thats a pretty generic error message, does your debug.log show anything at the end?
666 2012-03-25 19:50:11 Clipse-b has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
667 2012-03-25 19:50:22 <sipa> rc4 has a bug that manifests in reorganisations
668 2012-03-25 19:51:03 <BlueMatt> we really need to get an rc5 out...
669 2012-03-25 19:51:20 Visalleras has joined
670 2012-03-25 19:51:59 * BlueMatt is surprised in that he sees no way ipc could have /ever/ worked on win32, when I know I tested it because there were a few bugs I ended up fixing on win32...
671 2012-03-25 19:52:22 <sipa> maybe the bug was not present in earlier boost versions?
672 2012-03-25 19:52:28 <BlueMatt> maybe
673 2012-03-25 19:52:41 Visalleras is now known as shurnormal
674 2012-03-25 19:52:48 <BlueMatt> though I thought diapolo said he did testing on newer/older versions too, so...
675 2012-03-25 19:53:43 dwon has joined
676 2012-03-25 19:55:18 copumpkin has joined
677 2012-03-25 19:56:22 comboy has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
678 2012-03-25 19:59:28 <bluemoon23> debug shows nothing at the end
679 2012-03-25 20:00:37 shurnormal has quit (Quit: http://driedleaves.no-ip.org)
680 2012-03-25 20:01:31 <sipa> bluemoon23: paste it somewhere, please?
681 2012-03-25 20:01:41 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Few women admit their age.  Few men act theirs.)
682 2012-03-25 20:03:10 Clipse has joined
683 2012-03-25 20:05:08 <bluemoon23> when i try to install bitcoin the latest version it says "Runtime Error! Program: c:\program files\bitcoin\bitcoin-qt.exe This application has requested the Runtime to terminate in an unusual way. Please contact the applications support team for more informatioN" does nayone know how to fix?
684 2012-03-25 20:05:17 <bluemoon23> and ive tried older versions
685 2012-03-25 20:05:20 <bluemoon23> and get the same message
686 2012-03-25 20:05:56 <sipa> bluemoon23: yes, i've seen that, but what is in debug.log?
687 2012-03-25 20:08:04 <bluemoon23> rg
688 2012-03-25 20:08:19 <bluemoon23> debug.log?
689 2012-03-25 20:08:21 <bluemoon23> where is this found?
690 2012-03-25 20:08:35 <sipa> in the data directory
691 2012-03-25 20:09:03 Marf has joined
692 2012-03-25 20:09:04 <sipa> see https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Data_directory
693 2012-03-25 20:13:34 ovidiusoft has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
694 2012-03-25 20:20:52 <bluemoon23> debug folder is long
695 2012-03-25 20:20:56 <bluemoon23> i dont want to paste all of it here
696 2012-03-25 20:21:05 <sipa> just the last few pages is fine
697 2012-03-25 20:21:09 <bluemoon23> k
698 2012-03-25 20:21:12 <sipa> and not here, use pastebin.org
699 2012-03-25 20:22:07 <bluemoon23> Bitcoin version 0.5.3.1-beta
700 2012-03-25 20:22:08 <bluemoon23> Default data directory C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Application Data\Bitcoin
701 2012-03-25 20:22:08 <bluemoon23> Loading addresses...
702 2012-03-25 20:22:08 <bluemoon23> dbenv.open strLogDir=C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Application Data\Bitcoin/database strErrorFile=C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Application Data\Bitcoin/db.log
703 2012-03-25 20:22:08 <bluemoon23> Loaded 3033 addresses
704 2012-03-25 20:22:08 <bluemoon23>  addresses              3438ms
705 2012-03-25 20:22:08 <bluemoon23> Loading block index...
706 2012-03-25 20:22:09 <bluemoon23> LoadBlockIndex(): hashBestChain=00000000000005c94d53  height=136093
707 2012-03-25 20:22:09 <bluemoon23> ************************
708 2012-03-25 20:22:10 <bluemoon23> EXCEPTION: NSt8ios_base7failureE
709 2012-03-25 20:22:10 <bluemoon23> CAutoFile::read : end of file
710 2012-03-25 20:22:11 <bluemoon23> C:\Program Files\Bitcoin\bitcoin-qt.exe in Runaway exception
711 2012-03-25 20:22:51 <BlueMatt> ahh, bluemoon23 please post multi-line pastes to a site like pastebin.com and link it instead of pasting it in the chan...
712 2012-03-25 20:22:59 <BlueMatt> sipa/luke-jr should I pull request https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/commit/1b327daeb510d91c065ea3610c4b5740c743fffe
713 2012-03-25 20:23:16 <BlueMatt> or does someone want to do more digging into whats going on in boost's calls to the win32 api?
714 2012-03-25 20:23:19 <bluemoon23> here
715 2012-03-25 20:23:20 <bluemoon23> http://pastebin.com/c66KyCv1
716 2012-03-25 20:23:37 <sipa> bluemoon23: looks like your block database got corrupted
717 2012-03-25 20:23:51 <sipa> bluemoon23: try deleting (or moving away) blkindex.dat and blk0001.dat
718 2012-03-25 20:24:05 <sipa> and indeed, please don't paste more than 3 lines on IRC
719 2012-03-25 20:24:29 Nicksasa has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
720 2012-03-25 20:25:28 <bluemoon23> where can i find those two .dat files?
721 2012-03-25 20:25:33 <BlueMatt> in your datadir
722 2012-03-25 20:27:06 <BlueMatt> screw it: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/986
723 2012-03-25 20:29:02 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: TheBlueMatt opened pull request 986 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/986>
724 2012-03-25 20:31:15 <Joric> http://we.lovebitco.in/bitcoin-0.1.0.rar the best!
725 2012-03-25 20:31:25 <BlueMatt> ???
726 2012-03-25 20:31:41 <sipa> the original release?
727 2012-03-25 20:31:49 <Joric> source included
728 2012-03-25 20:32:04 <Joric> BitCoin v0.01 ALPHA Copyright (c) 2009 Satoshi Nakamoto
729 2012-03-25 20:32:06 <BlueMatt> there was a patch to go from 0.1.0 to the first one in git (like 0.1.3 or smth) a bit back
730 2012-03-25 20:32:21 <BlueMatt> it would be nice to get that patch somewhere in the git repo for history's sake...
731 2012-03-25 20:32:27 ageis has quit (Quit: http://ageispolis.net)
732 2012-03-25 20:32:28 <bluemoon23> where is the datadir
733 2012-03-25 20:32:36 MC1984 has joined
734 2012-03-25 20:32:41 <sipa> bluemoon23: you've already found debug.log in it
735 2012-03-25 20:32:43 <sipa> it's the same dir
736 2012-03-25 20:32:51 <bluemoon23> k im there
737 2012-03-25 20:32:58 <bluemoon23> looking for blkindex.dat
738 2012-03-25 20:33:17 <sipa> "looking for"?
739 2012-03-25 20:33:20 ageis has joined
740 2012-03-25 20:33:37 <bluemoon23> yeah to delete
741 2012-03-25 20:33:47 <sipa> just go to that directory, and delete it
742 2012-03-25 20:33:53 <bluemoon23> i am
743 2012-03-25 20:34:15 <bluemoon23> now what
744 2012-03-25 20:34:18 <bluemoon23> it shoudl run correctly
745 2012-03-25 20:34:45 <sipa> it'll download the blockchain again
746 2012-03-25 20:35:01 <bluemoon23> k
747 2012-03-25 20:35:16 <Joric> i wonder what's market.cpp
748 2012-03-25 20:35:52 <sipa> bluemoon23: first one in git is 0.1.5, afaik
749 2012-03-25 20:36:41 <bluemoon23> yay it worked
750 2012-03-25 20:36:44 <bluemoon23> thnx
751 2012-03-25 20:36:53 <bluemoon23> git?
752 2012-03-25 20:38:16 weex has quit (Quit: leaving)
753 2012-03-25 20:38:28 <BlueMatt> bluemoon23: I think he meant me ;)
754 2012-03-25 20:38:37 <sipa> i did!
755 2012-03-25 20:38:47 <BlueMatt> sipa: ah, well either way, it would be cool to get 0.1.0 in git somehow...
756 2012-03-25 20:39:02 <BlueMatt> not very useful, but cool...
757 2012-03-25 20:39:30 <sipa> i don't mind doing that, if there is some way of verifying that that is actually bitcoin 0.1.0 as released by satoshi
758 2012-03-25 20:39:41 <BlueMatt> theymos posted the commit
759 2012-03-25 20:39:49 <BlueMatt> s/commit/patch/
760 2012-03-25 20:40:13 <bluemoon23> why encrpyt/e
761 2012-03-25 20:40:15 <bluemoon23> "?
762 2012-03-25 20:40:55 <sipa> where do you see any mention of encryption?
763 2012-03-25 20:42:45 <BlueMatt> wait, not it wasnt theymos, who was it...
764 2012-03-25 20:42:49 <BlueMatt> s/not/no/
765 2012-03-25 20:43:19 <BlueMatt> Hal posted it
766 2012-03-25 20:43:22 <BlueMatt> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=68121.0
767 2012-03-25 20:44:29 <BlueMatt> well, no hal emailed it and others posted it...
768 2012-03-25 20:46:00 <sipa> i assume we could put 0.1.0 on git as a branch off 0.1.5
769 2012-03-25 20:46:13 <BlueMatt> yea, or just tag a commit that diffs 0.1.5 back to 0.1.0
770 2012-03-25 20:46:15 <sipa> not a branch in the git meaning, just in the dependency graph
771 2012-03-25 20:46:22 <BlueMatt> yea
772 2012-03-25 20:46:23 <sipa> exactly
773 2012-03-25 20:46:43 Cablesaurus has joined
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776 2012-03-25 20:47:04 <BlueMatt> ok, whats left for 0.6rc5 aside from uri crap?
777 2012-03-25 20:48:07 <BlueMatt> sipa: is #955 just a corrupted wallet that isnt (necessarily) our fault?
778 2012-03-25 20:48:33 <sipa> BlueMatt: looks like it
779 2012-03-25 20:48:57 <BlueMatt> and #950 is a no-go until 0.7?
780 2012-03-25 20:49:14 <BlueMatt> (I really prefer to not have yet another incompatible wallet change for 0.7...)
781 2012-03-25 20:49:34 <sipa> BlueMatt: i do (determinstic wallets) ;)
782 2012-03-25 20:49:45 <BlueMatt> oh, are you targeting det wallets for 0.7?
783 2012-03-25 20:49:49 <BlueMatt> in that case, I dont care
784 2012-03-25 20:50:26 <sipa> depends on the timing, i guess
785 2012-03-25 20:50:51 <BlueMatt> your  guess on when you'll have free time to code det wallets?
786 2012-03-25 20:51:42 <sipa> imho, 950 is possible after 974
787 2012-03-25 20:51:55 <sipa> but that needs gavin's approval
788 2012-03-25 20:52:41 <BlueMatt> yea, thats fine with me too
789 2012-03-25 20:52:41 occulta has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
790 2012-03-25 20:52:50 <BlueMatt> is gavin targeting 974 for 0.6 as well?
791 2012-03-25 20:53:17 <sipa> yes
792 2012-03-25 20:53:31 JZavala has joined
793 2012-03-25 20:53:53 <BlueMatt> mmm, well I suppose after that, we should be able to merge 950 fine in 0.7...
794 2012-03-25 20:55:13 <BlueMatt> so todo for 0.6rc is probably just 974, win32-ipc-crap and go?
795 2012-03-25 20:55:26 <BlueMatt> oh and 977
796 2012-03-25 20:55:42 molecular has joined
797 2012-03-25 20:55:43 <BlueMatt> oh, what about 982
798 2012-03-25 20:56:17 <sipa> #977 is something for luke
799 2012-03-25 20:56:34 <BlueMatt> it doesnt effect master?
800 2012-03-25 20:56:38 <sipa> 982 looks serious, but i'm unable to reproduce
801 2012-03-25 20:59:16 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: is there any reason to leave the identifier "BitcoinURL", considering it's not for URLs?
802 2012-03-25 20:59:34 <BlueMatt> no, is there any reason to change it, considering the name doesnt effect anything?
803 2012-03-25 20:59:45 * BlueMatt thinks it might be better as qwrgrehtadsg
804 2012-03-25 21:01:09 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: if you want it changed, change it now though
805 2012-03-25 21:01:42 <BlueMatt> anyway, Im gonna go watch the game, see yall later
806 2012-03-25 21:01:49 <BlueMatt> (UNC v Kansas)
807 2012-03-25 21:02:55 mrsy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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812 2012-03-25 21:08:07 <luke-jr> sipa: #977 doesn't look like something for me. :p
813 2012-03-25 21:08:10 specular has quit ()
814 2012-03-25 21:09:31 <sipa> luke-jr: all 0.5.x backports seem to report as 0.4.0 ?
815 2012-03-25 21:09:46 <luke-jr> sipa: even 0.5.0 afaik
816 2012-03-25 21:10:24 <luke-jr> hmm, I suppose HEAD has it fixed
817 2012-03-25 21:10:32 <luke-jr> wonder where the problem is
818 2012-03-25 21:11:12 <sipa> i don't see how that problem can manifest
819 2012-03-25 21:11:17 <sipa> VERSION is correct
820 2012-03-25 21:11:33 <sipa> and qt/aboutdialog.cpp sets the text to FormatFullVersion
821 2012-03-25 21:11:55 pusle has quit ()
822 2012-03-25 21:12:38 JZavala has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
823 2012-03-25 21:14:03 Guest3161 is now known as diki
824 2012-03-25 21:14:50 <luke-jr> sipa: maybe he's actually running 0.4.0?
825 2012-03-25 21:15:32 <sipa> luke-jr: that's my guess
826 2012-03-25 21:15:35 <sipa> see issue
827 2012-03-25 21:16:02 Joric has quit ()
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829 2012-03-25 21:25:50 black_rg has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
830 2012-03-25 21:26:05 mcorlett has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
831 2012-03-25 21:28:45 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: sipa: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/987
832 2012-03-25 21:30:15 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: luke-jr opened pull request 987 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/987>
833 2012-03-25 21:30:24 black_rg has joined
834 2012-03-25 21:39:17 black_rg has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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838 2012-03-25 21:48:28 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
839 2012-03-25 21:48:29 <gribble> Current Blocks: 172871 | Current Difficulty: 1498294.3628165 | Next Difficulty At Block: 173375 | Next Difficulty In: 504 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 5 hours, 16 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1644857.08684646 | Estimated Percent Change: 9.78197126454
840 2012-03-25 21:52:12 dwon has quit (Quit: Leaving)
841 2012-03-25 21:52:22 skeledrex has joined
842 2012-03-25 21:53:12 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
843 2012-03-25 21:53:44 mndrix has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
844 2012-03-25 21:57:33 mndrix has joined
845 2012-03-25 22:00:52 <BlueMatt> luke-jr ny god, i thought you just meant the ipc name...
846 2012-03-25 22:01:07 <BlueMatt> But whatever...
847 2012-03-25 22:03:38 ELT has joined
848 2012-03-25 22:06:13 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I did, then when I was doing that I realized how bad it was! :P
849 2012-03-25 22:12:34 <sipa> BlueMatt, gmaxwell: any comment on #984 ?
850 2012-03-25 22:17:58 <luke-jr> sipa: any idea on the addr.dat lockup issue btw?
851 2012-03-25 22:23:12 <sipa> luke-jr: not really
852 2012-03-25 22:23:50 Joric has quit ()
853 2012-03-25 22:24:07 noagendamarket has joined
854 2012-03-25 22:26:44 <bluemoon23> k i went to the start menu
855 2012-03-25 22:26:58 <bluemoon23> after installing gpg
856 2012-03-25 22:27:13 <bluemoon23> typed in kleopatra says file cannot be found
857 2012-03-25 22:33:12 <bluemoon23> k i found nit
858 2012-03-25 22:41:40 JRWR has joined
859 2012-03-25 22:44:29 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
860 2012-03-25 22:47:23 GTRsdk has joined
861 2012-03-25 22:50:24 <GTRsdk> Must DNS seeds run on a VPS, or can it run on a normal (shared) web hosting service?
862 2012-03-25 22:50:49 <sipa> you need to be able to listen on the DNS port in some way
863 2012-03-25 22:51:00 <sipa> which is typically not possible in a web hosting service
864 2012-03-25 22:57:41 <neofutur> bluemoon23: not the good channel ;)
865 2012-03-25 23:14:10 <BlueMatt> sipa: as long as 3-7 days keeps it well below all other nodes, sure
866 2012-03-25 23:17:15 <Mad7Scientist> GTRsdk, net a web hosting service unless it provides a shell account
867 2012-03-25 23:17:23 <Mad7Scientist> and the shell account needs to allow < port 1024
868 2012-03-25 23:23:21 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
869 2012-03-25 23:25:54 Z0rZ0rZ0r has joined
870 2012-03-25 23:26:03 Guest4371 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
871 2012-03-25 23:29:20 Z0rZ0rZ0r1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
872 2012-03-25 23:32:57 <bluemoon23> hi
873 2012-03-25 23:33:04 <bluemoon23> im at the screen in kleopatra
874 2012-03-25 23:33:09 <bluemoon23> im trying to create a new certificate
875 2012-03-25 23:33:18 <bluemoon23> its asking me to enter the paraphrase and quality:
876 2012-03-25 23:33:26 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
877 2012-03-25 23:33:27 <bluemoon23> but i havent created one it says to enter the paraphrase
878 2012-03-25 23:33:30 <bluemoon23> but then pinetry
879 2012-03-25 23:33:32 <bluemoon23> pops up
880 2012-03-25 23:34:17 <luke-jr> bluemoon23: I think you're in the wrong channel
881 2012-03-25 23:34:28 * GTRsdk agrees
882 2012-03-25 23:34:30 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
883 2012-03-25 23:34:33 <bluemoon23> bitcoin dev
884 2012-03-25 23:34:38 <bluemoon23> rj
885 2012-03-25 23:34:44 <bluemoon23> what channel?
886 2012-03-25 23:34:54 <luke-jr> bitcoin is not kleopatra
887 2012-03-25 23:35:09 Keefe has joined
888 2012-03-25 23:35:35 Keefe is now known as Guest39853
889 2012-03-25 23:36:38 <bluemoon23> ok
890 2012-03-25 23:36:43 <bluemoon23> after i make up a backup
891 2012-03-25 23:36:46 <bluemoon23> now what
892 2012-03-25 23:37:01 <bluemoon23> in GPG4win
893 2012-03-25 23:37:11 <luke-jr> now you figure out what channel you're on topic in
894 2012-03-25 23:37:27 <luke-jr> because bitcoin development has nothing to do with gpg
895 2012-03-25 23:37:54 <bluemoon23> what chan
896 2012-03-25 23:38:09 <luke-jr> maybe #gnupg ?
897 2012-03-25 23:39:08 pickett has joined
898 2012-03-25 23:40:54 <GTRsdk> bluemoon23: If that isn't the right channel, maybe try using a search for a channel feature
899 2012-03-25 23:42:35 underscor has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
900 2012-03-25 23:44:02 JZavala has joined
901 2012-03-25 23:46:33 <bluemoon23> wheres serach chan feature
902 2012-03-25 23:46:36 <bluemoon23> ?????????
903 2012-03-25 23:47:12 <BlueMatt> in your irc client
904 2012-03-25 23:47:41 <copumpkin> bluemoon23: you sure you have enough question marks there? not sure I understand whether you asked a question or not
905 2012-03-25 23:53:19 graingert has quit (Quit: graingert)
906 2012-03-25 23:54:10 graingert has joined
907 2012-03-25 23:54:32 <luke-jr> bluemoon23: /msg alis list *kleopatra*
908 2012-03-25 23:55:23 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
909 2012-03-25 23:56:15 mndrix has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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