1 2012-03-28 00:00:01 <sipa> with 4.7.4 instead of 4.8.0
   2 2012-03-28 00:00:09 pickett has joined
   3 2012-03-28 00:00:12 <BlueMatt> cntl-f source
   4 2012-03-28 00:00:43 <sipa> ah, missed that .tar.gz link
   5 2012-03-28 00:00:45 <sipa> indeed
   6 2012-03-28 00:02:01 <sipa> luke also had a different qt exe for 0.5.4rc2
   7 2012-03-28 00:02:36 <BlueMatt> oh...then why did it work for 0.5.3.1...
   8 2012-03-28 00:05:44 <luke-jr> sipa: https://github.com/luke-jr/bitcoin/compare/vfycompsig_0.5.0 look sane?
   9 2012-03-28 00:06:08 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: ?
  10 2012-03-28 00:06:50 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: the 0.5.3.1 exes were deterministic despite different qt's
  11 2012-03-28 00:07:05 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no, everyone who build 0.5.3.1 needed the same qt…
  12 2012-03-28 00:07:15 <luke-jr> or else it wouldn't have been secure
  13 2012-03-28 00:07:20 <BlueMatt> no, everyone built their own qt's
  14 2012-03-28 00:07:33 <BlueMatt> but the exes all matched
  15 2012-03-28 00:07:47 <sipa> luke-jr: looks good to me
  16 2012-03-28 00:08:12 <luke-jr> can I get a few ACKs on the concept of backporting compressed-key verifysig to 0.5?
  17 2012-03-28 00:09:08 <luke-jr> or at least someone who thinks it's a good idea? <.<
  18 2012-03-28 00:10:00 <sipa> i'm not convinced about the necessity of 0.5.x backports - are there reasons why someone would not upgrade to 0.6?
  19 2012-03-28 00:10:05 <BlueMatt> best way to phrase it: someone who dislikes the idea? ;)
  20 2012-03-28 00:10:16 <BlueMatt> then youll get just as many responses and you can assume everyone agrees
  21 2012-03-28 00:10:18 <sipa> (like, "i hate the Qt GUI", or "i hate forced fees", ...)
  22 2012-03-28 00:10:44 <sipa> but if there is a backport, it sounds right to backport verify message signatures
  23 2012-03-28 00:10:56 <luke-jr> sipa: because 0.6 is less tested
  24 2012-03-28 00:11:30 <luke-jr> sipa: production environments that don't need the new features shouldn't have to upgrade to 0.6
  25 2012-03-28 00:12:26 supson has joined
  26 2012-03-28 00:13:21 <gavinandresen> signing/verifying with compressed public keys is a new feature. If you need that new feature, you should upgrade to 0.6.
  27 2012-03-28 00:19:20 <sipa> 02:00:03 < Mini_> hey guys, i'd like to donate to developers whos clients i use. i had no problem with armory and electrum, but i can't  find core development team donate address. can someone send me a link to donation page? I can't find it on bitcoin.org
  28 2012-03-28 00:19:50 <BlueMatt> sipa: how many times has that question been answered?
  29 2012-03-28 00:19:58 <BlueMatt> also, why does gavinandresen not put up a donation address ;)
  30 2012-03-28 00:20:52 <gavinandresen> because I might get the lion's share of the donations and then I'd feel guilty and have to think about who deserves what.....
  31 2012-03-28 00:20:53 <BlueMatt> oh, sipa thats a good idea, make a p2sh address that it takes n/the core devs to sign...
  32 2012-03-28 00:22:23 <gavinandresen> If we can figure out some way of fairly distributing the donations to the people doing the work then I'd be all for having a p2sh donation address in the client, on the website, etc.
  33 2012-03-28 00:23:27 <BlueMatt> I was thinking more along the lines of bitcoin-foundation purchases, but Im not sure what those actually would be...
  34 2012-03-28 00:24:06 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: anything that encourages the non-fiat Bitcoin market?
  35 2012-03-28 00:24:12 <luke-jr> maybe mining equipment :P
  36 2012-03-28 00:24:26 <luke-jr> though those two are contradicting right now :/
  37 2012-03-28 00:24:27 <BlueMatt> to be operated by who? and the profits go back to the same address?
  38 2012-03-28 00:24:34 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: that's a good idea
  39 2012-03-28 00:25:03 <BlueMatt> yay, devs get the biggest mining pool now
  40 2012-03-28 00:25:08 <luke-jr> hehe
  41 2012-03-28 00:25:18 <sipa> well we could have a page with a list of contributors, what they do/did, and an address
  42 2012-03-28 00:25:24 <luke-jr> could always just hoard it to drive the price up, and only expense it when a dev has some kind of emergency
  43 2012-03-28 00:25:30 <BlueMatt> sipa: yuck...
  44 2012-03-28 00:25:40 <luke-jr> but that would be bad for my reputation cuz I have emergencies too often :/
  45 2012-03-28 00:25:42 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: oh, Im outta cash, I need some...
  46 2012-03-28 00:25:57 <BlueMatt> sipa: that gets way too complicated
  47 2012-03-28 00:26:02 <sipa> probably
  48 2012-03-28 00:26:02 <BlueMatt> sipa: oh, their address
  49 2012-03-28 00:26:07 <BlueMatt> still, thats a bit complicated
  50 2012-03-28 00:26:32 <luke-jr> we could just ask people to decide their "donation amount" is strictly for Bitcoin purchases, not cashing out ;)
  51 2012-03-28 00:26:38 diki has quit ()
  52 2012-03-28 00:26:54 <BlueMatt> heh, yea
  53 2012-03-28 00:26:56 <luke-jr> ie, "don't donate; spend it on bitcoin merchants!"
  54 2012-03-28 00:28:13 <mod6> :)
  55 2012-03-28 00:30:16 <gavinandresen> darn it, I thought I bookmarked an interesting programming team management website/service that let users decide how funds were split....
  56 2012-03-28 00:32:07 <luke-jr> HumbleBumble.com ?
  57 2012-03-28 00:32:29 <sipa> ?
  58 2012-03-28 00:32:43 <sipa> that doesn't look right
  59 2012-03-28 00:32:46 <BlueMatt> humblebundle?
  60 2012-03-28 00:33:12 <luke-jr> http://www.humblebundle.com/ *
  61 2012-03-28 00:33:14 <BlueMatt> if we got bitcoin in humblebundle (a gaming bundle)...
  62 2012-03-28 00:33:20 <BlueMatt> well many bundles
  63 2012-03-28 00:33:36 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I've mentioned a few times, it'd be nice if someone setup a Humble Bundle-alike using BitPay…
  64 2012-03-28 00:33:37 <copumpkin> MagicalTux said it might be coming soon
  65 2012-03-28 00:33:43 <BlueMatt> average linux payment _always_ beats windows/mac...
  66 2012-03-28 00:33:46 <luke-jr> and with only free games
  67 2012-03-28 00:34:53 <Blitzboom> copumpkin: yeah? afaik they pussied out because POSSIBLY ILLEGAL
  68 2012-03-28 00:35:28 <copumpkin> Blitzboom: last I heard they were waiting for mtgox's merchant services, which were just released recently, so I'm not sure
  69 2012-03-28 00:35:31 <Blitzboom> further down there … http://bitcoinmedia.com/the-effs-own-chilling-breeze/
  70 2012-03-28 00:35:49 <Diablo-D3> not this shit again.
  71 2012-03-28 00:35:54 <Blitzboom> hmm, what was "last"?
  72 2012-03-28 00:36:06 <Diablo-D3> and btw, if humble bundle does bitcoin, I will continue not to buy them.
  73 2012-03-28 00:36:10 <MagicalTux> copumpkin: good idea, we'll remind them we now have stuff for them
  74 2012-03-28 00:36:20 <Diablo-D3> seriously, the last thing I need is detriments to my productivity
  75 2012-03-28 00:36:20 <copumpkin> lol
  76 2012-03-28 00:36:31 localhost has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  77 2012-03-28 00:36:41 <Diablo-D3> productivity is a detriment to my productivity, I swear to god
  78 2012-03-28 00:38:07 <luke-jr> how about Armagetron, BZFlag, Freeciv, Frozen Bubble, Globulation 2, and Neverball ?
  79 2012-03-28 00:38:22 <luke-jr> <.<
  80 2012-03-28 00:38:32 <Diablo-D3> sucks, sucks, annoying as fuck, fun as a sdl perl demo, sucks, and sucks.
  81 2012-03-28 00:40:14 localhost has joined
  82 2012-03-28 00:40:40 <Diablo-D3> and throw in xonotic? guess what, all I'd be doing is buying my own code.
  83 2012-03-28 00:41:35 andytoshi has joined
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  86 2012-03-28 00:44:21 <ternit> My client is stuck at 5% synchronising the blocks for last 20 min, usualy it rushes to at least 60% after fresh install, any idea how to speed it up?
  87 2012-03-28 00:44:33 <Diablo-D3> ternit: leave it go.
  88 2012-03-28 00:44:47 <Diablo-D3> if its still busted after like an hour, restart it
  89 2012-03-28 00:44:56 <ternit> kk cheers
  90 2012-03-28 00:45:05 <sipa> ternit: which version?
  91 2012-03-28 00:45:11 <ternit> 5.3.1
  92 2012-03-28 00:45:37 <Diablo-D3> btw, did 0.6.0 final ever come out?
  93 2012-03-28 00:45:50 <BlueMatt> no
  94 2012-03-28 00:45:53 <sipa> Diablo-D3: we're at rc5, if all goes well, 0.6.0 will be final in a few days
  95 2012-03-28 00:46:03 <Diablo-D3> remind me to upgrade when that comes out
  96 2012-03-28 00:46:30 <sipa> ternit: 0.6.0rc5 will be faster :)
  97 2012-03-28 00:46:43 <ternit> wish i knew before i dled ;/
  98 2012-03-28 00:46:46 <Diablo-D3> what sipa says is true
  99 2012-03-28 00:46:53 <Diablo-D3> ternit: oh like it matters, its just a few megs
 100 2012-03-28 00:47:01 <ternit> oh it moved im at 6%
 101 2012-03-28 00:47:16 <ternit> 16%*
 102 2012-03-28 00:47:51 <sipa> you won't lose the part of the blockchain that you've already downloaded if you restart
 103 2012-03-28 00:48:10 <ternit> btw you guys got any jobs for a non programmer ? Guinea pigs for new clients testing or something in those lines?
 104 2012-03-28 00:48:32 <Diablo-D3> ternit: someone was bitching about p2pool not having enough documentation, on the forums
 105 2012-03-28 00:48:59 <Diablo-D3> so theres something you could go do
 106 2012-03-28 00:49:19 <sipa> ternit: you're always welcome to run release candidates or git head, and report bugs
 107 2012-03-28 00:50:01 <ternit> cheers
 108 2012-03-28 00:50:12 <Diablo-D3> ternit: if you run from git, BACK UP YOUR WALLET.DAT FREQUENTLY
 109 2012-03-28 00:50:28 <Diablo-D3> and stack the backups just incase you accidently backup a broken one
 110 2012-03-28 00:50:33 <ternit> have to find out how git works 1st
 111 2012-03-28 00:50:39 <Diablo-D3> git is easy
 112 2012-03-28 00:50:48 <Diablo-D3> git clone git://url
 113 2012-03-28 00:50:55 <Diablo-D3> and then git pull to pull new shit
 114 2012-03-28 00:51:09 <sipa> first of all, which OS?
 115 2012-03-28 00:51:17 <ternit> Windows*
 116 2012-03-28 00:51:20 <sipa> and can you compile bitcoin yourself
 117 2012-03-28 00:51:26 <Diablo-D3> yuck
 118 2012-03-28 00:51:27 <Diablo-D3> windows
 119 2012-03-28 00:51:29 <sipa> probably not, in that case
 120 2012-03-28 00:51:33 * Diablo-D3 is tempted to say dont bother
 121 2012-03-28 00:51:55 <sipa> well, there have been quite a bit of windows-only errors lately, exactly because few people test those
 122 2012-03-28 00:52:09 <sipa> and the developers don't use them themselves
 123 2012-03-28 00:52:20 <Diablo-D3> sipa: that just leads me to believe windows should not be used.
 124 2012-03-28 00:52:23 <Diablo-D3> seriously.
 125 2012-03-28 00:52:32 <Diablo-D3> if the developers dont use windows, why should you?
 126 2012-03-28 00:53:02 <ternit> old habbits that you just can't change
 127 2012-03-28 00:53:08 <Diablo-D3> I dunno man
 128 2012-03-28 00:53:12 <Diablo-D3> my first computer ran DOS
 129 2012-03-28 00:53:16 <Diablo-D3> didnt even have windows
 130 2012-03-28 00:53:20 <ternit> i gave ubuntu a shot last night and wa sworst expirience ever
 131 2012-03-28 00:53:20 <BlueMatt> easier to boot up an ubuntu vm to build for windows than to build on windows...
 132 2012-03-28 00:53:36 <Diablo-D3> ternit: ubuntu is a pile of shit
 133 2012-03-28 00:53:44 <ternit> i agree
 134 2012-03-28 00:53:50 <Diablo-D3> seriously, I wish those fuckers would just diaf and quit fucking up linux
 135 2012-03-28 00:54:02 <Diablo-D3> people are exposed to ubuntu and think thats what linux really is
 136 2012-03-28 00:54:05 <sipa> i think ubuntu is doing quite well on the "just works (mostly)" front
 137 2012-03-28 00:54:06 <Diablo-D3> and never use it again
 138 2012-03-28 00:54:14 <Diablo-D3> ubuntu is a fucking microsoft front
 139 2012-03-28 00:54:15 <sipa> i don't like the standard gui stuff though
 140 2012-03-28 00:54:26 <BlueMatt> sipa: agreed and agreed
 141 2012-03-28 00:54:33 <Diablo-D3> anyone who gives a fuck about linux will run debian
 142 2012-03-28 00:54:41 <Diablo-D3> everyone else is some fedora loser.
 143 2012-03-28 00:54:44 <gjs278> lol ubuntu
 144 2012-03-28 00:54:44 <gmaxwell> Hey now!
 145 2012-03-28 00:55:04 <gmaxwell> I don't use debian because I like running software from this decade.
 146 2012-03-28 00:55:17 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: I use debian so I can run software from the next decade.
 147 2012-03-28 00:55:20 <gmaxwell> Everything in debian is whatever people were shipping in the 1960s or whatever.
 148 2012-03-28 00:55:28 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: wow troll much
 149 2012-03-28 00:55:28 <gjs278> if you were immortal you'd use gentoo because then it wouldn't matter how much extra time you spend doing things
 150 2012-03-28 00:55:32 <gmaxwell> And the unstable stuff is usually broken.
 151 2012-03-28 00:55:34 <Diablo-D3> debian is up do date on everything
 152 2012-03-28 00:55:35 <Diablo-D3> LOL
 153 2012-03-28 00:55:37 <Diablo-D3> _LOL_
 154 2012-03-28 00:55:41 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: you horrid troll you
 155 2012-03-28 00:55:49 <Diablo-D3> I've used debian unstable for the past decade
 156 2012-03-28 00:55:51 <Diablo-D3> _what_ broken shit
 157 2012-03-28 00:55:57 <gmaxwell> It's only effective trolling because its parially true. :)
 158 2012-03-28 00:56:18 <Diablo-D3> now, testing, sure, I'd give you that, testing gets broken because all the deb devs use sid exclusively
 159 2012-03-28 00:56:38 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: if I were immortal, I'd still not use -funroll-loops.
 160 2012-03-28 00:56:50 <gjs278> I dont unroll the loops I like them rolled
 161 2012-03-28 00:56:53 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: Id use -O0
 162 2012-03-28 00:57:00 <Diablo-D3> bluematt: thats even worse
 163 2012-03-28 00:57:08 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: poke?
 164 2012-03-28 00:57:14 <Diablo-D3> gcc devs say do not use -O0 because it can often produce garbage
 165 2012-03-28 00:57:20 <Diablo-D3> (since no one tests it)
 166 2012-03-28 00:57:31 <Diablo-D3> (sort of a theme going on here)
 167 2012-03-28 00:57:32 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: heh, not surprising
 168 2012-03-28 00:57:49 * luke-jr doesn't believe Diablo-D3, since -O0 is basically required for debugging sanely
 169 2012-03-28 00:58:00 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: dude
 170 2012-03-28 00:58:04 <Diablo-D3> you believe in a fucking magical sky god
 171 2012-03-28 00:58:17 <luke-jr> also because he's a troll*
 172 2012-03-28 00:58:32 <Diablo-D3> an invisible man in the sky that watches every person on earth, a round sphere that exists in three dimensional space, every single moment of every single day
 173 2012-03-28 00:58:32 <sipa> gcc -fomit-broken-code
 174 2012-03-28 00:58:48 <Diablo-D3> and then, at the end of their lives, judges them based on SHIT NO ONE HAS GIVEN A FUCK ABOUT FOR FOUR THOUSAND GODDAMNED YEARS
 175 2012-03-28 00:58:50 <gjs278> lol
 176 2012-03-28 00:59:09 <gjs278> I hate how they have no space after the f
 177 2012-03-28 00:59:12 <gjs278> I read it as funroll
 178 2012-03-28 00:59:15 <gjs278> that sounds fun
 179 2012-03-28 00:59:18 <gjs278> unrolling loops
 180 2012-03-28 00:59:26 <BlueMatt> gjs278: same here first time I saw it...
 181 2012-03-28 00:59:26 <Diablo-D3> funroll vomits.
 182 2012-03-28 00:59:29 <luke-jr> libiberty is a cute name.
 183 2012-03-28 00:59:49 <Diablo-D3> libpron is better
 184 2012-03-28 00:59:49 <gjs278> I will read it at fomit forever
 185 2012-03-28 01:00:02 <Diablo-D3> (mozilla internal image library)
 186 2012-03-28 01:01:38 Cablesaurus has joined
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 188 2012-03-28 01:01:38 Cablesaurus has joined
 189 2012-03-28 01:02:06 <gjs278> mozilla prides themselves in creating the projects that are impossible to build
 190 2012-03-28 01:02:25 <gjs278> I tried figuring out how to static compile libnss
 191 2012-03-28 01:02:27 <gjs278> it was imposisble
 192 2012-03-28 01:02:31 <gjs278> just to build any version
 193 2012-03-28 01:02:48 <Diablo-D3> well, whyat do you expect
 194 2012-03-28 01:02:57 <Diablo-D3> firefox descends from a deeply corporate code base
 195 2012-03-28 01:03:55 <gjs278> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Configuring_Build_Options
 196 2012-03-28 01:04:00 <gjs278> ./configure --enable-feature too hard
 197 2012-03-28 01:04:09 <Diablo-D3> yes, dude
 198 2012-03-28 01:04:13 <Diablo-D3> I used to run firefox from trunk
 199 2012-03-28 01:04:21 <Diablo-D3> Im well aware of how fucktarded the build process is
 200 2012-03-28 01:05:02 <gjs278> dropbear relies on nss to log you in
 201 2012-03-28 01:05:07 <gjs278> dropbear is supposed to be static
 202 2012-03-28 01:05:08 <gjs278> it's a lie
 203 2012-03-28 01:05:28 <gjs278> you have to copy in the libnss libraries... which can never be static so you have to copy in everything
 204 2012-03-28 01:06:19 <BlueMatt> just do it the mac way (tm): make the applications folders but show them in files in gui and folders in cli...
 205 2012-03-28 01:07:04 <BlueMatt> (and copy all your libs in the folder)
 206 2012-03-28 01:10:40 <luke-jr> Chromium is just as insane btw
 207 2012-03-28 01:11:10 * luke-jr wonders which is worse, the Mac way or the Windows way
 208 2012-03-28 01:11:19 <BlueMatt> both
 209 2012-03-28 01:11:45 <luke-jr> 0.6rc5 is taking forever to build on my N900 btw
 210 2012-03-28 01:11:51 <luke-jr> it's swapping like mad
 211 2012-03-28 01:12:21 <ternit> i used msysgit, now i got no clue how to build. Any help?
 212 2012-03-28 01:12:53 <BlueMatt> help...maybe, hope not really
 213 2012-03-28 01:13:01 <BlueMatt> (to getting it to build)
 214 2012-03-28 01:13:13 <luke-jr> ternit: nobody much builds on Windows period
 215 2012-03-28 01:13:26 <luke-jr> I think wumpus tests that it works occasionally, but that's it
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 218 2012-03-28 01:18:06 <BCBot>  Stats: http://bit.ly/bitcoin-irc-stats
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 228 2012-03-28 01:51:43 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: guess what
 229 2012-03-28 01:51:47 <Diablo-D3> code sucks
 230 2012-03-28 01:51:59 <Diablo-D3> thats the way the world is
 231 2012-03-28 01:52:03 <gjs278> yeah
 232 2012-03-28 01:52:03 <Diablo-D3> all code fucking sucks
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 236 2012-03-28 01:57:50 <gjs278> I should install plan9 right now and refuse to install anythng unless it was written by ken thompson
 237 2012-03-28 01:57:57 <gjs278> also I will only program in go
 238 2012-03-28 01:58:16 <Diablo-D3> dude
 239 2012-03-28 01:58:18 <Diablo-D3> go _sucks_
 240 2012-03-28 01:58:25 <Diablo-D3> its another one of these fucking google projects that need to die
 241 2012-03-28 02:02:15 <gjs278> cat-v eats go for breakfast
 242 2012-03-28 02:02:17 <gjs278> with rob pike
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 285 2012-03-28 03:33:39 <luke-jr> neofutur: k
 286 2012-03-28 03:35:02 <neofutur> so i have to git checkout git://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.git
 287 2012-03-28 03:35:07 <neofutur> no more ?
 288 2012-03-28 03:35:07 <luke-jr> no
 289 2012-03-28 03:35:17 <neofutur> or a special branch ?
 290 2012-03-28 03:35:43 <luke-jr> https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder first
 291 2012-03-28 03:35:52 zeiris has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 292 2012-03-28 03:36:03 <luke-jr> git://gitorious.org/+bitcoin-stable-developers/bitcoin/bitcoind-stable.git for stable tags
 293 2012-03-28 03:36:11 <neofutur> git clone https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder ?
 294 2012-03-28 03:36:51 <neofutur> wget https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder ?
 295 2012-03-28 03:37:00 <luke-jr> git://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder.git
 296 2012-03-28 03:37:04 Karmaon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 297 2012-03-28 03:37:10 <luke-jr> https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder has the setup instructions
 298 2012-03-28 03:37:34 <neofutur> ok got git://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder.git
 299 2012-03-28 03:38:24 <neofutur> ok I sudo apt-get install python-vm-builder qemu-kvm apt-cacher ; sudo service apt-cacher start
 300 2012-03-28 03:38:39 Karmaon has joined
 301 2012-03-28 03:38:49 <neofutur> grumph 34 dependencies to install ;(
 302 2012-03-28 03:40:44 <neofutur> bin/gbuild <package>.yml
 303 2012-03-28 03:40:49 <neofutur> what should i do there ?
 304 2012-03-28 03:41:03 <BlueMatt> ../bitcoin/contrib/gitian-descriptors/gitian.yml
 305 2012-03-28 03:41:07 <BlueMatt> or for a win32 build...
 306 2012-03-28 03:41:08 <luke-jr> [23:32:31] <luke-jr> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/release-process.txt
 307 2012-03-28 03:41:10 <BlueMatt> ../bitcoin/contrib/gitian-descriptors/gitian-win32.yml
 308 2012-03-28 03:41:22 <BlueMatt> and maybe add a -j4 -m4096 or similar
 309 2012-03-28 03:42:56 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: dooglus opened issue 999 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/999>
 310 2012-03-28 03:43:03 <neofutur> 2012-03-27 22:39:04,277 ERROR   : amd64 is not a valid architecture. Valid architectures are: i386 lpia
 311 2012-03-28 03:43:06 <neofutur> Traceback (most recent call last):
 312 2012-03-28 03:43:13 <neofutur> when trying to bin/make-base-vm
 313 2012-03-28 03:43:43 <luke-jr> so just do i386 I guess
 314 2012-03-28 03:44:26 <neofutur>  bin/make-base-vm  --arch=i386
 315 2012-03-28 03:44:26 <neofutur> unrecognized option --arch=i386
 316 2012-03-28 03:44:32 <devrandom> luke-jr: he won't be able to build the linux one
 317 2012-03-28 03:44:41 <devrandom> no equal sign
 318 2012-03-28 03:44:43 <neofutur> even if bin/make-base-vm -h
 319 2012-03-28 03:44:49 <neofutur> says --arch= is an option
 320 2012-03-28 03:44:53 <neofutur> ah ok
 321 2012-03-28 03:44:56 <devrandom> yeah, it's wrong, sorry
 322 2012-03-28 03:45:13 <neofutur> E: Failed getting release file http://127.0.0.1:3142/archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid/Release
 323 2012-03-28 03:45:16 <neofutur> , stderr:
 324 2012-03-28 03:45:32 <neofutur> oups
 325 2012-03-28 03:45:32 <BlueMatt> what version of ubuntu are you on?
 326 2012-03-28 03:45:33 <neofutur> sudo service apt-cacher start
 327 2012-03-28 03:45:47 <luke-jr> devrandom: you could do the 3rd build too ;)
 328 2012-03-28 03:46:17 <neofutur> latest LTS
 329 2012-03-28 03:46:37 <devrandom> sudo service apt-cacher-ng start
 330 2012-03-28 03:47:27 <devrandom> BlueMatt: I'm having issues generating a VM image
 331 2012-03-28 03:47:33 <BlueMatt> devrandom: :(
 332 2012-03-28 03:47:47 <BlueMatt> error?
 333 2012-03-28 03:48:04 <devrandom> I'm making another one right now, but the one I built an hour ago just hangs after "booting from disk"
 334 2012-03-28 03:48:13 <devrandom> (bios msg)
 335 2012-03-28 03:48:20 <BlueMatt> yuck
 336 2012-03-28 03:48:46 <devrandom> I'm on 11.10 - I don't recall if I built a VM since I upgraded
 337 2012-03-28 03:48:49 <neofutur> cant get apt-cacherto listen on 3142
 338 2012-03-28 03:48:51 <devrandom> what are you on?
 339 2012-03-28 03:49:05 <devrandom> neofutur: did you start apt-cacher-ng?
 340 2012-03-28 03:49:05 <neofutur> ah I ll try apt-cacher-ng
 341 2012-03-28 03:49:41 <devrandom> might need to remove apt-cacher too
 342 2012-03-28 03:49:56 <devrandom> BlueMatt: what OS are you using?
 343 2012-03-28 03:50:29 <BlueMatt> 11.04
 344 2012-03-28 03:50:40 sytse has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 345 2012-03-28 03:50:56 <neofutur> apt-cacher-ng listen on 3142
 346 2012-03-28 03:51:14 <neofutur> but same error on bin/make-base-vm  --arch i386
 347 2012-03-28 03:51:36 <neofutur> devrandom: https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder said to use apt-cacher , not ng ;)
 348 2012-03-28 03:51:50 <BlueMatt> devrandom: what are you on?
 349 2012-03-28 03:51:51 <neofutur> but even after install and running apt-cacher-ng
 350 2012-03-28 03:52:06 <neofutur> 2012-03-27 22:46:41,778 ERROR   : Process (['/usr/sbin/debootstrap', '--arch=i386', 'lucid', '/tmp/tmpJEExig', 'http://127.0.0.1:3142/archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu']) returned 1. stdout: I: Retrieving Release
 351 2012-03-28 03:52:10 <neofutur> E: Failed getting release file http://127.0.0.1:3142/archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid/Release
 352 2012-03-28 03:52:24 <neofutur> but netstat sees its listening on 3142
 353 2012-03-28 03:53:05 <neofutur> cat /etc/lsb-release
 354 2012-03-28 03:53:05 <neofutur> DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu
 355 2012-03-28 03:53:05 <neofutur> DISTRIB_RELEASE=10.04
 356 2012-03-28 03:53:05 <neofutur> DISTRIB_CODENAME=lucid
 357 2012-03-28 03:53:07 <devrandom> maybe check its log
 358 2012-03-28 03:53:07 <neofutur> DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu 10.04.4 LTS"
 359 2012-03-28 03:53:16 <BlueMatt> devrandom: there seem to be a few vmbuilder bugs that can cause that in launchpad, depends on what version your host is though
 360 2012-03-28 03:53:34 <devrandom> BlueMatt: sigh...
 361 2012-03-28 03:53:52 <BlueMatt> yea, vmbuilder kinda sucks...
 362 2012-03-28 03:54:19 <neofutur> nothing in /var/log/apt-cacher-ng/apt-cacher.*
 363 2012-03-28 03:54:36 <neofutur> nothing in /var/log/apt-cacher/*
 364 2012-03-28 03:54:51 <devrandom> neofutur: is apt-cacher also installed?  maybe uninstall it
 365 2012-03-28 03:55:08 <BlueMatt> neofutur: what about /var/cache/apt-cacher...
 366 2012-03-28 03:55:29 <BlueMatt> and does http://127.0.0.1:3142/acng-report.html come up?
 367 2012-03-28 03:55:44 <BlueMatt> (useful stats page, btw, if you care about your apt-cacher-ng's performance)
 368 2012-03-28 03:55:45 <lianj> ubuntu is really fun huh? :P
 369 2012-03-28 03:56:07 <BlueMatt> hey, what other os has a build-vm-from-scratch script?
 370 2012-03-28 03:56:11 <neofutur> full log : http://pastebin.com/w4NFDGeY
 371 2012-03-28 03:56:15 <BlueMatt> (in a deterministic fashion)
 372 2012-03-28 03:56:19 <neofutur> ok i uninstall apt-cacher
 373 2012-03-28 03:56:43 <BlueMatt> neofutur: try looking for related vmbuilder bugs on launchpad
 374 2012-03-28 03:57:22 <neofutur> no time to track vmbuilder bugs sorry
 375 2012-03-28 03:57:31 <neofutur> i thought i was just building something
 376 2012-03-28 03:57:43 <devrandom> BlueMatt: latest make-base-vm worked apparently
 377 2012-03-28 03:57:43 <BlueMatt> why are you running gitian?
 378 2012-03-28 03:57:44 <neofutur> not installing 36 packages and debugging ubuntu ;(
 379 2012-03-28 03:57:44 <lianj> BlueMatt: arch, fedora
 380 2012-03-28 03:58:00 <BlueMatt> lianj: hmm, fun
 381 2012-03-28 03:58:17 <neofutur> hum i have an idea, he could try to use my default proxy
 382 2012-03-28 03:58:26 <neofutur> and thus not find 127.0.0.1
 383 2012-03-28 04:00:18 <neofutur> trying to remove the proxy from /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/76download
 384 2012-03-28 04:00:29 <devrandom> neofutur: did you make sure something is listening on 3142 after uninstalling apt-cacher?
 385 2012-03-28 04:01:13 <neofutur> http://127.0.0.1:3142/acng-report.html
 386 2012-03-28 04:01:15 <neofutur> works
 387 2012-03-28 04:01:27 <neofutur> yes its listening on 3142
 388 2012-03-28 04:01:38 <devrandom> ok
 389 2012-03-28 04:01:39 <neofutur> but removing the proxy from /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/76download is not enough
 390 2012-03-28 04:01:53 <devrandom> echo $http_proxy
 391 2012-03-28 04:02:17 <devrandom> tcpdump...
 392 2012-03-28 04:02:37 <devrandom> tcpdump -i lo -p 3142
 393 2012-03-28 04:02:46 <neofutur> also removed it from /etc/wgetrc
 394 2012-03-28 04:02:49 <neofutur> same problem
 395 2012-03-28 04:02:52 <devrandom> I mean : tcpdump -i lo port 3142
 396 2012-03-28 04:04:12 <neofutur> tcpdump see the traffic : http://pastebin.com/R7xaNyNs
 397 2012-03-28 04:04:32 <neofutur> when I run sudo bin/make-base-vm  --arch i386
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 403 2012-03-28 04:07:08 <neofutur> well i ll test when there will be a gentoo ebuild
 404 2012-03-28 04:07:08 <devrandom> I'll paste my cacher-ng config
 405 2012-03-28 04:07:15 <neofutur> gotta go
 406 2012-03-28 04:07:28 <neofutur> devrandom: go i ll give it a last try
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 410 2012-03-28 04:08:32 <devrandom> Remap-uburep: file:ubuntu_mirrors /ubuntu ; file:backends_ubuntu
 411 2012-03-28 04:08:47 <devrandom> there's no change from the distribution one
 412 2012-03-28 04:09:10 Tycale has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 413 2012-03-28 04:09:13 <devrandom> perhaps it needs a proxy in your net setup?
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 419 2012-03-28 04:10:12 <devrandom> I'm being kidnapped, talk to you later
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 421 2012-03-28 04:11:06 <neofutur> I tried to add
 422 2012-03-28 04:11:13 <neofutur> Acquire::http { Proxy "http://127.0.0.1:3142"; };
 423 2012-03-28 04:11:16 <neofutur> same result
 424 2012-03-28 04:11:39 <neofutur> well gotta go too
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 431 2012-03-28 04:29:20 <devrandom> back
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 433 2012-03-28 04:29:59 <devrandom> hm... getting a mismatch on linux 64bit bitcoind
 434 2012-03-28 04:32:41 <Karmaon> why can't i send bitcoins to my grandma
 435 2012-03-28 04:33:32 <nanotube> Karmaon: if your grandma has a computer, you should be able to.
 436 2012-03-28 04:33:39 <nanotube> if she doesn't... then that's why. :)
 437 2012-03-28 04:33:51 <Karmaon> nanotube: ah, that may be the reason
 438 2012-03-28 04:34:01 <nanotube> heh
 439 2012-03-28 04:35:06 <nanotube> she may be able to receive coins by calculating an ecdsa keypair, and making a valid address, using pencil and paper. but somehow i doubt she'll be able to figure that out if she doesn't have a computer :D
 440 2012-03-28 04:35:24 <ELT> gifted grandma
 441 2012-03-28 04:35:33 <Karmaon> yeah, i understnad my problem now
 442 2012-03-28 04:35:48 <nanotube> :)
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 449 2012-03-28 04:46:51 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,blocks
 450 2012-03-28 04:46:52 <gribble> 173222
 451 2012-03-28 04:48:33 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,blocks
 452 2012-03-28 04:48:34 <gribble> 173222
 453 2012-03-28 04:51:25 <nanotube> ;;bc,tslb
 454 2012-03-28 04:51:26 <gribble> Time since last block: 10 minutes and 18 seconds
 455 2012-03-28 04:53:20 andytoshi has joined
 456 2012-03-28 05:03:38 <devrandom> sipa: I'm consistently getting a different result for 64 bit bitcoind gitian build.  will push my signature anyway.
 457 2012-03-28 05:03:43 <devrandom> BlueMatt: ^
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 462 2012-03-28 05:38:18 <BlueMatt> devrandom: :(, alright I guess I need to spend some time making these scripts more deterministic...
 463 2012-03-28 05:38:25 <BlueMatt> anyway, Im off for now...
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 475 2012-03-28 05:58:57 <egecko> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/ is being blocked by OpenDNS for being infected with Conficker virus
 476 2012-03-28 06:01:19 <BTC_Bear> huh?
 477 2012-03-28 06:02:00 <egecko> if you use OpenDNS, and attempt to go to that address or pull an image from that address, you are prompted with a page that says:
 478 2012-03-28 06:02:01 <egecko> This host was blocked by OpenDNS in response to the Conficker virus, the Microsoft IE zero-day vulnerability, an equally serious vulnerability, or some other threat.  If you think this shouldn't be blocked, please email us at malware-block@opendns.com.
 479 2012-03-28 06:02:17 sytse has joined
 480 2012-03-28 06:02:58 <BTC_Bear> gmaxwell: ^^
 481 2012-03-28 06:04:07 <gmaxwell> egecko: please email them and complain. It's obviously not.
 482 2012-03-28 06:07:51 <egecko> done
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 487 2012-03-28 07:00:14 elektriks is now known as osmosis
 488 2012-03-28 07:02:01 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened issue 1000 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1000>
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 500 2012-03-28 07:56:59 <Cory> \o/ Issue 1000!
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 504 2012-03-28 08:15:59 <vegard> is that something to celebrate? :-P
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 554 2012-03-28 11:56:11 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: ghazzo opened issue 1001 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1001>
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 574 2012-03-28 13:01:23 <sipa> BlueMatt: i built qt-win32 myself, and the resulting zip indeed differs, but 0.6.0rc5's exe didn't change
 575 2012-03-28 13:01:46 <sipa> so it seems qt build for 0.6.0rc5 is indeed deterministic despite nondeterministic qt build
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 588 2012-03-28 13:25:04 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1002 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1002>
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 603 2012-03-28 14:07:24 <sipa> this looks dangerous: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74447.0
 604 2012-03-28 14:11:01 <luke-jr> sipa: looks like the same addr.dat lockup?
 605 2012-03-28 14:11:15 <luke-jr> wouldn't rc4 ignore the addrman file and start from scratch?
 606 2012-03-28 14:12:19 <sipa> i assume no addrman record is ever written
 607 2012-03-28 14:12:40 <sipa> if it's similar to the lockup you experienced
 608 2012-03-28 14:14:47 slush has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 609 2012-03-28 14:17:06 <luke-jr> hmm
 610 2012-03-28 14:17:45 * sipa puts bdb in a spaceship headed for alpha centauri
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 613 2012-03-28 14:29:28 <twmz> sipa: I had the same problem.  "fixed" it by backing up and removing the massive existing addr.dat and leting bitcoind start fresh with a new one.
 614 2012-03-28 14:29:39 <twmz> this was last night with git HEAD, btw
 615 2012-03-28 14:29:57 fiddur has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 616 2012-03-28 14:31:20 <luke-jr> twmz: that's not a fix :p
 617 2012-03-28 14:31:31 <twmz> hence the "quotes"
 618 2012-03-28 14:32:29 <luke-jr> :p
 619 2012-03-28 14:34:05 <imsaguy2> but that's how they fix windows
 620 2012-03-28 14:34:10 <imsaguy2> format and start fresh
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 622 2012-03-28 14:41:27 <gavinandresen> sipa: there's obviously something we don't understand about bdb and multithreading...
 623 2012-03-28 14:41:54 <gavinandresen> sipa:  but: given that rewriting addr.dat is a one-time operation and there is a fairly easy workaround.... I'm tempted to live with it as a known issue
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 626 2012-03-28 14:52:31 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: sipa already fixed it I think
 627 2012-03-28 14:52:53 <gavinandresen> even better....
 628 2012-03-28 14:52:55 <sipa> ?
 629 2012-03-28 14:53:10 <sipa> luke-jr: i worked around your issue, but i never fixed bdb locking up
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 631 2012-03-28 14:53:18 <luke-jr> sipa: isn't it the same issue?
 632 2012-03-28 14:53:34 <gavinandresen> if it was, then it would be fixed in rc5
 633 2012-03-28 14:53:42 <sipa> yes, i assume so, still, the fix seems good enough for your problem, but not in all cases
 634 2012-03-28 14:53:47 <luke-jr> I thought the fix wasn't in rc5
 635 2012-03-28 14:53:57 <sipa> gavinandresen: btw, this is before any second thread is started
 636 2012-03-28 14:54:25 danbri has joined
 637 2012-03-28 14:54:31 <gavinandresen> sipa: yes, I know-- but the lockup was in a pthread method, which says to me that bdb THINKS there are multiple threads for some reason
 638 2012-03-28 14:54:46 <sipa> it's fine that it is aware of it
 639 2012-03-28 14:55:17 <sipa> but pthread_cond_wait should always be called in a while loop that tests for a condition that will at some later point be fulfilled
 640 2012-03-28 14:55:26 <sipa> which is obviously not the case here
 641 2012-03-28 14:55:55 <sipa> i wonder, could it be that the bdb files contain that much of an internal structure that they encode the locks that were taken by a (crashed) instance?
 642 2012-03-28 14:56:46 <gavinandresen> yes, something like that is what I was thinking might be happening
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 645 2012-03-28 15:01:21 <lh77> if i send bitcoins to an address, and its unconfirmed, can i close the client and have the coins still be sent?
 646 2012-03-28 15:01:27 diki has joined
 647 2012-03-28 15:02:22 <sipa> luke-jr: usually, yes
 648 2012-03-28 15:02:24 <sipa> eh, lh77
 649 2012-03-28 15:02:43 <lh77> oh nevermind
 650 2012-03-28 15:03:27 <luke-jr> lh77: depends on the rest of the network
 651 2012-03-28 15:03:53 <diki> someone needs to add the blocks downloaded / (no dividing obviously) total blocks in chain under the green bar when bitcoin is downloading blocks
 652 2012-03-28 15:04:14 <diki> this should erase the confusion of always stays 99%
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 654 2012-03-28 15:09:27 <diki> or, instead of that, showing how much blocks are left and decrease as needed, redrawing as needed
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 656 2012-03-28 15:16:00 <sipa> gavinandresen: i wonder if we should set DbEnv::set_lk_detect
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 658 2012-03-28 15:18:00 <gavinandresen> I think it defaults to DB_LOCK_RANDOM (according to my copy of the Berkeley DB book)
 659 2012-03-28 15:18:23 <sipa> yes, that's also in the online reference
 660 2012-03-28 15:18:49 <sipa> but it also says
 661 2012-03-28 15:18:51 <sipa> If no lock policy has yet been specified, set the lock policy to DB_LOCK_RANDOM.
 662 2012-03-28 15:19:08 <gavinandresen> wouldn't hurt to try: do you have a reproducible test case?
 663 2012-03-28 15:19:40 <sipa> i have luke's testnet dir, and can run using pre-rc5 code
 664 2012-03-28 15:21:14 <gavinandresen> I'll see if I can reproduce; I'll write an #ifdef DEBUG RPC method called 'crash' that does a dirty exit....
 665 2012-03-28 15:21:34 <gavinandresen> (no, that's dumb, I'll just kill -9....)
 666 2012-03-28 15:22:12 <sipa> if this fixes the problem in luke's case, i can ask Fordy to try a special build
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 668 2012-03-28 15:34:28 <sipa> gavinandresen: doesn't seem to help
 669 2012-03-28 15:36:08 <gavinandresen> Does running the db_deadlock util when it is locked up have any effect?
 670 2012-03-28 15:36:56 <devrandom> BlueMatt: I'm the only outlier re 64/bitcoind
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 672 2012-03-28 15:39:22 <sipa> gavinandresen: doesn't help at all
 673 2012-03-28 15:39:38 <sipa> (tried that a few days ago already)
 674 2012-03-28 15:40:01 <gavinandresen> ok.  So it isn't actually bdb deadlocking against itself, it is ... something else
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 680 2012-03-28 15:49:22 <sipa> gavinandresen: i give up
 681 2012-03-28 15:50:46 <gavinandresen> I don't blame you... every time I have to wade into bdb I feel like a Fortran programmer in the 1950's....
 682 2012-03-28 15:52:19 <gavinandresen> Ok, I see two options:  1. Document it as a known issue with upgrading, workaround is delete addr.dat.
 683 2012-03-28 15:52:54 <gavinandresen> Or 2. Remove the delete-old-entries entirely, see if that fixes the problem, and tell users they can recover disk space by removing their addr.dat if they care.
 684 2012-03-28 15:55:02 <gavinandresen> The only other 0.6 issue I see is translations.  I'm terrible at keeping track of whether or not we're synced with transifex, and how far behind transations are.
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 687 2012-03-28 15:57:25 <sipa> tcatm: ^
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 691 2012-03-28 16:06:43 <sipa> gavinandresen: there is a chance that Fordy's issue on the forum is different from luke's of course
 692 2012-03-28 16:07:45 <gavinandresen> yup-- it is at least slightly different
 693 2012-03-28 16:07:59 <BlueMatt> sipa: thats what was true for 0.5.3.1, but why have I heard differently from a few people?
 694 2012-03-28 16:08:09 <BlueMatt> <sipa> BlueMatt: i built qt-win32 myself, and the resulting zip indeed differs, but 0.6.0rc5's exe didn't change
 695 2012-03-28 16:08:12 <BlueMatt> re: that
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 707 2012-03-28 16:30:49 <gavinandresen> sipa BlueMatt :   http://bettermeans.com/    ... was the online tool I forgot to bookmark for better organizing / compensating development
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 716 2012-03-28 16:48:18 <luke-jr> sipa: why would it be unlikely to solve it?
 717 2012-03-28 16:48:31 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: why does it seem slightly different to you?
 718 2012-03-28 16:48:40 <luke-jr> afaict, it's exactly the same behaviour I saw
 719 2012-03-28 16:49:26 <gavinandresen> it must be slightly different because sipa's workaround that is in rc5 worked for your addr.dat.
 720 2012-03-28 16:49:57 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: meh, I still dont like the idea of developer compensation based on a vote for what % of work they did
 721 2012-03-28 16:50:28 <BlueMatt> it still misses many factors (like how do you factor in the amount of time they put in because they are a terrible/great coder vs the end result?)
 722 2012-03-28 16:51:45 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: figuring out how to compensate people for work they do is always hard, which is why I'm so hesitant to "monetize" development
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 724 2012-03-28 16:52:56 <BlueMatt> agreed
 725 2012-03-28 16:54:19 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: but sipa's workaround isn't in rc5, is it?
 726 2012-03-28 16:54:28 <gavinandresen> yes, it is
 727 2012-03-28 16:54:41 <luke-jr> oh
 728 2012-03-28 16:54:42 <luke-jr> hmm
 729 2012-03-28 16:54:54 <luke-jr> ah, a last-minute merge
 730 2012-03-28 16:55:29 <copumpkin> ninja merge
 731 2012-03-28 16:55:45 <luke-jr> :p
 732 2012-03-28 16:56:48 * luke-jr wonders what would happen if sipa just dumped the data to the file without the bdb mess
 733 2012-03-28 16:57:35 <luke-jr> or maybe a different filename, even. that should be safe?
 734 2012-03-28 16:57:55 <copumpkin> I love bdb
 735 2012-03-28 16:58:08 <copumpkin> my one complaint about it is that its queue access method only supports 32-bit identifiers
 736 2012-03-28 16:59:09 * Zarutian has a question: why does it take so long to quit the satoshi client?
 737 2012-03-28 16:59:19 <BlueMatt> bdb
 738 2012-03-28 16:59:32 * luke-jr suspects copumpkin is alone in his love for bdb
 739 2012-03-28 16:59:45 <copumpkin> lol
 740 2012-03-28 16:59:48 <BlueMatt> Zarutian: kinda hit the nail on the head there...
 741 2012-03-28 16:59:56 <BlueMatt> Zarutian: great timing on that question, btw
 742 2012-03-28 17:00:05 zeiris has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 743 2012-03-28 17:00:41 <Zarutian> BlueMatt: I was just going to free a bit of cpu and memory up for a while and the satoshi client still hasnt quit since I have given it quit command five minutes ago.,
 744 2012-03-28 17:00:47 t7 has joined
 745 2012-03-28 17:00:54 * luke-jr would kill it by now.
 746 2012-03-28 17:00:59 <BlueMatt> Zarutian: 5 minutes is a bit excessive...
 747 2012-03-28 17:01:05 <BlueMatt> Zarutian: what does debug.log show?
 748 2012-03-28 17:01:05 <gavinandresen> shutdown slowness isn't all bdb, there are also all sorts of Sleep()s that aught to be optimized away
 749 2012-03-28 17:01:18 <BlueMatt> and does your performance indicator of choice show it hitting disk alot?
 750 2012-03-28 17:01:25 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: well, true
 751 2012-03-28 17:02:06 * luke-jr hates hard-to-reproduce bugs
 752 2012-03-28 17:02:23 <Zarutian> BlueMatt: yes. And the strange thing is all this should be committed to disk already. (You can mmap files so when the pages containing the file are dirtied they are written directly out)
 753 2012-03-28 17:02:42 <BlueMatt> Zarutian: we dont do the work, bdb does
 754 2012-03-28 17:02:48 <luke-jr> Zarutian: you can't mmap huge files on 32-bit :p
 755 2012-03-28 17:02:58 <BlueMatt> and if you mmap blindly like that you still have to have logs that are written in order
 756 2012-03-28 17:03:08 <Zarutian> luke-jr: there are ways such as windowing/banking
 757 2012-03-28 17:03:09 <BlueMatt> or you run the risk of terrible corruption
 758 2012-03-28 17:03:30 <BlueMatt> also, I dont think every bitcoin user wants bitcoin to eat 5g ram
 759 2012-03-28 17:03:40 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: mmap doesn't actually put the file in memory :P
 760 2012-03-28 17:03:59 <Zarutian> it seems today's software in general has degraded in performance as hardware has increased in performance
 761 2012-03-28 17:04:24 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I know, but it can cause oom-killer problems (as I found out a few days ago...)
 762 2012-03-28 17:04:51 <luke-jr> Zarutian: very much
 763 2012-03-28 17:05:05 <luke-jr> Win 3.11 ran a heck of a lot faster than *any* OS today
 764 2012-03-28 17:05:47 <BlueMatt> uh...I wouldnt say that...
 765 2012-03-28 17:05:49 <BlueMatt> my comp sure as hell runs faster than win3.11 did
 766 2012-03-28 17:05:49 <BlueMatt> at least on the 1 machine I ever ran it on
 767 2012-03-28 17:05:56 * Zarutian 's favourite OSes are KeyKOS and Amiga/BeOS
 768 2012-03-28 17:06:20 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I don't recall waiting for command prompts on Win 3.11 at least
 769 2012-03-28 17:06:30 <BlueMatt> I do
 770 2012-03-28 17:06:39 <luke-jr> there's a distinct split-second delay between clicking the quicklaunch and seeing Konsole on KDE
 771 2012-03-28 17:06:46 <BlueMatt> I remember waiting atleast 5 minutes to boot
 772 2012-03-28 17:06:52 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: after boot I mean
 773 2012-03-28 17:06:58 * luke-jr still waits a good 5 mins to boot
 774 2012-03-28 17:07:06 <BlueMatt> you need to get yourself an ssd
 775 2012-03-28 17:07:21 <luke-jr> my experience with SSDs are ones slower than HDs :p
 776 2012-03-28 17:07:50 <BlueMatt> you need to get yourself a real ssd
 777 2012-03-28 17:08:10 <luke-jr> meh, I don't mind the 5 minute boot
 778 2012-03-28 17:08:15 <luke-jr> I just avoid booting.
 779 2012-03-28 17:08:16 <Zarutian> what we need is to put pressure on software makers not to use more cpu cycles and memory than is needed at that moment
 780 2012-03-28 17:08:24 <luke-jr> Zarutian: that costs more in developer time.
 781 2012-03-28 17:08:33 <BlueMatt> Zarutian: good luck with that
 782 2012-03-28 17:09:12 <BlueMatt> Zarutian: also, good luck trying to run even a really heavily optimized version of bitcoin on win3.1
 783 2012-03-28 17:09:38 <BlueMatt> just because we dont run as fast as we theoretically could doesnt mean we could optimize it 1000%
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 785 2012-03-28 17:09:54 <Zarutian> who said I would run win3.1 or such? smallness doesnt mean that the os is old
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 787 2012-03-28 17:10:26 <BlueMatt> s/win3.1/hardware that ran win3.1/
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 789 2012-03-28 17:10:38 <BlueMatt> or even any semi-old hardware
 790 2012-03-28 17:10:48 * luke-jr would be glad to work for someone funding a lightweight OS :p
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 794 2012-03-28 17:11:11 <Zarutian> BlueMatt: well software today is rapidly aproaching the point that any program you run will require a few gigs in memory. Even just simple stuff such as a text editor with no bells and whistles beyond what pico has
 795 2012-03-28 17:11:16 <luke-jr> actually, I wonder how light ReactOS is
 796 2012-03-28 17:11:46 <BlueMatt> Zarutian: uh...what text editors do you use?
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 799 2012-03-28 17:12:27 <BlueMatt> only thing thats true of that I know of is web browsers
 800 2012-03-28 17:12:29 <Zarutian> BlueMatt: on unix systems, pico. On MacOS TextWrangler. On Windows Notepad++
 801 2012-03-28 17:12:30 <BlueMatt> now those eat memory
 802 2012-03-28 17:12:31 <luke-jr> nano uses 692 KB
 803 2012-03-28 17:12:49 <luke-jr> kwrite uses 18 MB
 804 2012-03-28 17:12:51 <BlueMatt> Zarutian: well then textwrangler and notepad++ apparently suck, but those are filled with random features
 805 2012-03-28 17:13:07 <luke-jr> kate uses 39 MB
 806 2012-03-28 17:13:21 <BlueMatt> gedit 25MB
 807 2012-03-28 17:13:30 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: gedit is equivalent to kwrite :P
 808 2012-03-28 17:13:31 <Zarutian> BlueMatt: I have nothing against random features. Just they should stay on disk until used.
 809 2012-03-28 17:13:39 <BlueMatt> none of those are anywhere close to a gig, nor are they remotely unreasonable
 810 2012-03-28 17:13:48 <BlueMatt> Zarutian: ...
 811 2012-03-28 17:14:04 <luke-jr> Zarutian: I don't mind QtGui being loaded into memory once for all GUI apps to share ;)
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 813 2012-03-28 17:14:38 <BlueMatt> Zarutian: I prefer not to wait a second when I click a tab because it has to go load that code from disk
 814 2012-03-28 17:14:56 <BlueMatt> and I dont mind spending 1/4% of my total memory to do it
 815 2012-03-28 17:14:56 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: Linux has disk cachign :P
 816 2012-03-28 17:15:05 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: not if its never been read
 817 2012-03-28 17:15:15 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: because you just used that feature for the first time today
 818 2012-03-28 17:15:33 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I propose that after the program starts, it read all the libraries it might use with disk priority idle
 819 2012-03-28 17:16:02 <luke-jr> (or better yet, just tell the kernel)
 820 2012-03-28 17:16:19 * luke-jr seems to recall some madvise syscall for informing Linux about potential reads
 821 2012-03-28 17:16:21 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: now that would be nice
 822 2012-03-28 17:16:21 <BlueMatt> also, Im sure someone has written code to do that somewhere...
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 825 2012-03-28 17:22:22 <BlueMatt> yay, we hit our 1000's bug/pull request
 826 2012-03-28 17:22:26 <BlueMatt> ...or is that a bad thing?
 827 2012-03-28 17:26:42 <luke-jr> just wait until 0x1000
 828 2012-03-28 17:26:44 <luke-jr> <.<
 829 2012-03-28 17:27:28 * luke-jr recalls a certain forum that counted posts in hexadecimal
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 831 2012-03-28 17:28:20 <BlueMatt> heh, we should do that
 832 2012-03-28 17:28:22 <BlueMatt> better yet, count in base58
 833 2012-03-28 17:29:54 <luke-jr> tonal*
 834 2012-03-28 17:31:03 <BlueMatt> no
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 844 2012-03-28 18:12:26 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: dooglus opened pull request 1003 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1003>
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 850 2012-03-28 18:24:13 <gmaxwell> hm.
 851 2012-03-28 18:24:39 <gmaxwell> sipa: So, I have a node now with 12 100 mb log fies.
 852 2012-03-28 18:24:50 <gmaxwell> This doesn't seem good.
 853 2012-03-28 18:25:33 <luke-jr> >_<
 854 2012-03-28 18:26:37 <gmaxwell> I was expecting there to only be 1/2 of them, except during initial sync where we were already getting 2gb of logs or so and there I expected the total number to not change.
 855 2012-03-28 18:26:56 <gmaxwell> http://pastebin.com/V8Kdd27H
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 858 2012-03-28 19:00:27 <t7> pastebin... really
 859 2012-03-28 19:01:44 <gmaxwell> t7: thank you for your informative contribution to the discussion!
 860 2012-03-28 19:07:32 <elkingrey> Anybody know if 0.6.0 is going to be released today?
 861 2012-03-28 19:07:45 <BlueMatt> probably not
 862 2012-03-28 19:08:04 <elkingrey> How come?
 863 2012-03-28 19:08:35 <BlueMatt> see the list at: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues?milestone=4&state=open
 864 2012-03-28 19:09:26 <elkingrey> Thanks!
 865 2012-03-28 19:09:52 <BlueMatt> also, probably others
 866 2012-03-28 19:09:58 <BlueMatt> but thats the list thats tagged 0.6
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 869 2012-03-28 19:21:21 terry is now known as jspham
 870 2012-03-28 19:22:14 <copumpkin> ;;seen theymos
 871 2012-03-28 19:22:14 <gribble> theymos was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 6 days, 18 hours, 50 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <theymos> I've barely looked at the GUI code, though.
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 888 2012-03-28 19:48:50 <sipa> gmaxwell: yes, i feared that when increasing the blkindex.dat flush
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 890 2012-03-28 19:49:31 <gmaxwell> sipa: I'm confused about that— because these logs weren't created during syncup (okay, the first probably was)
 891 2012-03-28 19:49:39 <sipa> i've thinking: maybe keep a global counter that increments with the size of all blocks written, and flush very N*dbcache or something
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 894 2012-03-28 19:49:56 <sipa> then again, i never entirely understood when logfiles are removed
 895 2012-03-28 19:53:43 <cluckcreek> Is there an easy way to get the amount received by an address that's not part of your wallet?
 896 2012-03-28 19:53:54 <BlueMatt> blockexplorer
 897 2012-03-28 19:53:56 <BlueMatt> or blockchain.info
 898 2012-03-28 19:54:17 paraipan has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 899 2012-03-28 19:54:51 <cluckcreek> I don't want to use a website
 900 2012-03-28 19:55:05 <gavinandresen> sipa: I think DBFlush() when shutdown is true:  dbenv.log_archive(&listp, DB_ARCH_REMOVE);
 901 2012-03-28 19:55:21 <cluckcreek> I'm trying to build something decentrallized.
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 905 2012-03-28 19:57:12 <luke-jr> cluckcreek: there's easy, and then there's build something. :P
 906 2012-03-28 19:57:59 <cluckcreek> heh
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 908 2012-03-28 19:58:19 <sipa> gavinandresen: yes, indeed
 909 2012-03-28 19:58:25 <sipa> i wonder whether we should call it more often
 910 2012-03-28 19:59:00 <gavinandresen> I thought we set an auto-remove flag, but I may be misremembering
 911 2012-03-28 19:59:17 <sipa> DB_ARCH_REMOVE
 912 2012-03-28 19:59:18 <sipa> Remove log files that are no longer needed; no filenames are returned. Automatic log file removal is likely to make catastrophic recovery impossible.
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 914 2012-03-28 19:59:33 <gavinandresen> ah, that's why we don't set that...
 915 2012-03-28 19:59:41 <sipa> but deleting files when no CDB instances are alive seems completely safe to me
 916 2012-03-28 19:59:58 <sipa> as it implies no transactions are active
 917 2012-03-28 20:00:09 <gavinandresen> yup
 918 2012-03-28 20:00:24 <sipa> let's try
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 922 2012-03-28 20:03:38 <gavinandresen> "Set the DB_LOG_AUTOREMOVE flag using DbEnv::set_flag method so that the moment a log file becomes removable, it gets removed automatically."
 923 2012-03-28 20:03:42 <gavinandresen> That's the flag I was thinking of
 924 2012-03-28 20:04:26 <gavinandresen> But AUTOREMOVE also makes catastrophic recovery impossible
 925 2012-03-28 20:05:12 <sipa> you can check in CDB::Close whether this was the last open db (actually, last open Txn should suffice, but let's try the easy way first)
 926 2012-03-28 20:05:22 <sipa> and then do a DB_ARCH_REMOVE
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 934 2012-03-28 20:26:37 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gavinandresen reopened issue 993 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/993>
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 938 2012-03-28 20:39:03 <sipa> gavinandresen:
 939 2012-03-28 20:39:05 <sipa> Where the environment was initialized with the DB_INIT_LOCK flag, calling DbEnv::close() does not release any locks still held by the closing process, providing functionality for long-lived locks. Processes that want to have all their locks released can do so by issuing the appropriate DbEnv::lock_vec() call.
 940 2012-03-28 20:39:29 <sipa> that sounds like luke's problem
 941 2012-03-28 20:39:41 <gavinandresen> ahh....
 942 2012-03-28 20:39:55 <sipa> lock_vec looks complicated though
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 944 2012-03-28 20:43:32 <gavinandresen> sipa: I was reading up on catastrophic db recovery versus simple db recovery-- I don't think we can ever do catastrophic recovery, because it requires access to all log files since the beginning of time.
 945 2012-03-28 20:47:33 <luke-jr> O.O
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 948 2012-03-28 20:51:10 <zooko> What's the status with that big miner that had ~10% of total and was ignoring transactions?
 949 2012-03-28 20:51:21 <zooko> Did it fall silent temporarily on about the 22nd of this month, by any chance?
 950 2012-03-28 20:51:34 underscor has joined
 951 2012-03-28 20:51:35 <BlueMatt> who cares?
 952 2012-03-28 20:51:41 molecular has joined
 953 2012-03-28 20:51:53 <gavinandresen> zooko does
 954 2012-03-28 20:52:23 <BlueMatt> ok, better phrasing: why does it matter?
 955 2012-03-28 20:53:01 <zooko> Hi Gavin!
 956 2012-03-28 20:53:06 <gavinandresen> Hey zooko
 957 2012-03-28 20:53:08 user_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 958 2012-03-28 20:53:18 <zooko> I'm exploring a hypothesis that a recent botnet takedown is related to aggregate mining rate.
 959 2012-03-28 20:53:20 <gavinandresen> There are still a fair number of 1-transaction blocks happening:  http://blockchain.info/blocks
 960 2012-03-28 20:53:26 <zooko> I think it probably does not.
 961 2012-03-28 20:53:38 <zooko> This is for publication on a cryptographers mailing list.
 962 2012-03-28 20:53:59 <zooko> Huh, there's a 1-txn block by donate@home?
 963 2012-03-28 20:54:03 <BlueMatt> ah, well that answers the question...
 964 2012-03-28 20:54:17 <gavinandresen> blockchain.info isn't accurate in reporting relayed blocks....
 965 2012-03-28 20:54:21 <BlueMatt> zooko: there really isnt any way to know, 0-tx blocks happen all the time
 966 2012-03-28 20:54:23 <zooko> There was a big botnet taken down starting about Mar 22.
 967 2012-03-28 20:54:45 <zooko> The takersdown, Kaspersky labs and friends, claimed that it was doing bitcoin mining, but they gave no specifics and seemed a bit unclear on the concept.
 968 2012-03-28 20:54:49 <BlueMatt> 0-tx blocks when the time between blocks is large is rare, but also not unheard of
 969 2012-03-28 20:54:55 <zooko> There *was* a dip in aggregate mining power that day.
 970 2012-03-28 20:55:10 <zooko> But, it looks to me like the dip was an order of magnitude bigger than the botnet could have accounted for, even if it *was* doing mining.
 971 2012-03-28 20:55:27 <BlueMatt> Id look for 0-tx blocks when time between blocks is atleast 10 minutes
 972 2012-03-28 20:55:33 <BlueMatt> plot it and see what happens ;)
 973 2012-03-28 20:55:37 <zooko> Eh, that sounds like too much work. :-)
 974 2012-03-28 20:55:42 <zooko> Thanks for the answers!
 975 2012-03-28 20:56:28 <sipa> 120k blocks, 3x100 MiB log files
 976 2012-03-28 20:57:47 <gavinandresen> That's calling ARCH_REMOVE when there are no db handles open?
 977 2012-03-28 20:58:05 <sipa> gavinandresen: yes, and checkpoinging, resetting lsn, and closing all databases
 978 2012-03-28 20:58:20 <sipa> i would expect never more than a single log file anymore
 979 2012-03-28 20:58:25 <BlueMatt> is that good or bad? (i havent been paying attention to the bugs over the past day or two)
 980 2012-03-28 20:58:39 <sipa> unless the data in between two 5000-block blocks requires >100 MiB logs
 981 2012-03-28 20:58:57 <gavinandresen> I'm going to test DB_LOG_AUTOREMOVE  .... that seems simpler, and I think we don't lose anything
 982 2012-03-28 20:59:28 <sipa> meh, keeps growing, 134k blocks, 9 logs
 983 2012-03-28 20:59:41 <sipa> gavinandresen: i doubt that'll do much, bitcoin keeps all its databases open most of the time
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 987 2012-03-28 21:02:19 <sipa> no log files actually get deleted here
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 989 2012-03-28 21:04:02 <sipa> i don't think anything change, except that it actually seems to be flushing the log files at least
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 994 2012-03-28 21:07:44 <gavinandresen> sipa: http://imgur.com/nb3J2  is what the Berkeley DB book has to say about DB_LOG_AUTO_REMOVE... I'm trying it now with a fresh blockchain download
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 999 2012-03-28 21:12:36 <sipa> eh
1000 2012-03-28 21:12:36 <sipa> db.cpp:101:29: error: ‘DB_LOG_AUTOREMOVE’ was not declared in this scope
1001 2012-03-28 21:12:37 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: you bought the bdb book? nice
1002 2012-03-28 21:12:37 <sipa> AUTO_REMOVE seems to work, even though i copy-pasted the former from the documentation
1003 2012-03-28 21:12:37 <gavinandresen> yeah, don't know why the discrepancy....
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1008 2012-03-28 21:12:38 <sipa> doesn't seem to help a thing
1009 2012-03-28 21:12:38 <sipa> log files just remain there, unchanging
1010 2012-03-28 21:12:40 <gavinandresen> sipa: can you run db_stat -C A   on luke-jr's hanging-addr.dat-env ?
1011 2012-03-28 21:12:46 Snapman_ is now known as Snapman
1012 2012-03-28 21:13:18 <gavinandresen> (my db46_stat and db48_stat both complain about mismatched versions....)
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1014 2012-03-28 21:15:05 <sipa> db4.8_stat: Build signature doesn't match environment
1015 2012-03-28 21:15:21 <sipa> db5.1_stat: Program version 5.1 doesn't match environment version 4.8
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1017 2012-03-28 21:15:36 <gavinandresen> frickin frackin....
1018 2012-03-28 21:15:37 <luke-jr> O.o
1019 2012-03-28 21:16:28 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: do you have a db_stat or dbNN_stat that'll work?  Run it from the bad testnet/ directory -C A
1020 2012-03-28 21:17:03 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: safe to publish?
1021 2012-03-28 21:17:14 <gavinandresen> sure, it's just locking statistics
1022 2012-03-28 21:17:16 <luke-jr> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/572753/
1023 2012-03-28 21:17:53 <gavinandresen> looks like sipa's theory about exiting while locks are held is correct....
1024 2012-03-28 21:24:56 <sipa> hooray i got bdb to segfault
1025 2012-03-28 21:26:17 <gavinandresen> sipa:  could this be source of the addr.dat hang:  http://imgur.com/2E5gF
1026 2012-03-28 21:26:53 <sipa> gavinandresen: we don't use CDB
1027 2012-03-28 21:27:05 <sipa> eh, CDS, wait
1028 2012-03-28 21:27:11 <copumpkin> credit default swap
1029 2012-03-28 21:27:14 <gavinandresen> CDS is concurrent data store....
1030 2012-03-28 21:27:40 <sipa> i don't think we use that
1031 2012-03-28 21:27:56 <sipa> we use DB_INIT_LOCK instead of DB_INIT_CDB
1032 2012-03-28 21:28:06 <sipa> which means we can't do modifications on cursors
1033 2012-03-28 21:28:09 <gavinandresen> ah, right
1034 2012-03-28 21:29:11 * sipa proposes using base64-encoded JPEG files with visual text representing the block chain in them, loaded entirely into memory
1035 2012-03-28 21:29:19 <sipa> that cannot be harder than getting bdb to work right
1036 2012-03-28 21:34:56 <sipa> interesting: i've managed to make bdb shut down and reinitialize its environnemnt entirely every 5000 blocks
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1038 2012-03-28 21:35:39 <sipa> if i do a log_archive(DB_LOG_REMOVE) before closing, it segfaults when reopening
1039 2012-03-28 21:35:53 <gavinandresen> I thought you failed to manage to do that when we were trying to rewrite encrypted wallets?
1040 2012-03-28 21:36:38 <sipa> no, i believe that i did manage to do so back then as well, but that it didn't help a bit for preventing the hash
1041 2012-03-28 21:37:07 <sipa> ah, no, for luke's issue, not when CDB::Rewrite was added initially
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1043 2012-03-28 21:38:05 <sipa> But do you think he deletes a single log file, even with DB_LOG_AUTO_REMOVE on, and completely shutting down the bdb env every time?
1044 2012-03-28 21:38:08 <sipa> Noooooooo
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1046 2012-03-28 21:38:37 <sipa> maybe someone should look at my code, i'm getting too irritated
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1050 2012-03-28 21:47:18 <gavinandresen> DB_LOG_AUTO_REMOVE ain't doing squat for me, either, I'm up to 4 100M log files
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1052 2012-03-28 21:47:43 <gavinandresen> make that 5....
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1055 2012-03-28 22:00:45 <sipa> up to 153k blocks, with db logfiles of 1 MiB (maybe smaller logfiles, higher change that one can be removed? nope) = 1.8 GiB logfiles already
1056 2012-03-28 22:00:56 <sipa> not a single one removed
1057 2012-03-28 22:01:27 <egecko> opendns is no longer block bitcoin.spia.be
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1059 2012-03-28 22:01:34 <egecko> err block/blocking
1060 2012-03-28 22:01:53 <sipa> it blocked it before? :o
1061 2012-03-28 22:01:58 <egecko> yep
1062 2012-03-28 22:02:03 <egecko> started last night some time
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1064 2012-03-28 22:05:02 <luke-jr> sipa: maybe try bdb 5.2?
1065 2012-03-28 22:05:06 <luke-jr> sipa: perhaps it's improved
1066 2012-03-28 22:05:31 <sipa> meh
1067 2012-03-28 22:07:50 <sipa> luke-jr: i see nothing related to that in the changelog
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1071 2012-03-28 22:29:31 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: dooglus opened pull request 1004 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1004>
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1075 2012-03-28 22:42:39 <sipa> wth :S
1076 2012-03-28 22:42:48 <sipa> dooglus did it with the most trivial patch possible
1077 2012-03-28 22:42:56 <sipa> it actually deletes the files :S
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1079 2012-03-28 22:43:36 <luke-jr> lol
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1091 2012-03-28 23:09:23 <gmaxwell> sipa: doing it only evert 5k blocks probably doesn't make sense though— as you can see in my pastebin, old logs grow fairly fast even outside of initial download
1092 2012-03-28 23:10:48 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gavinandresen opened issue 1005 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1005>
1093 2012-03-28 23:12:40 <sipa> gmaxwell: i'm experimenting with counting the number of transactions updated, and flushing when that reaches a thresshold
1094 2012-03-28 23:12:47 <sipa> threshold
1095 2012-03-28 23:13:24 <sipa> and by ordering the code a bit differently, you can delete more
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