1 2012-03-30 00:01:22 Z0rZ0rZ0r1 has joined
  2 2012-03-30 00:01:22 Z0rZ0rZ0r has quit (Disconnected by services)
  3 2012-03-30 00:01:22 Z0rZ0rZ0r1 is now known as Z0rZ0rZ0r
  4 2012-03-30 00:06:43 underscor has joined
  5 2012-03-30 00:08:56 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Not that there is anything wrong with that)
  6 2012-03-30 00:09:17 Someguy123 is now known as Someguy123[afk]
  7 2012-03-30 00:11:49 barmstrong has joined
  8 2012-03-30 00:13:10 SomeoneWeirdzzzz is now known as SomeoneWeird
  9 2012-03-30 00:23:37 forrestv is now known as Forrest
 10 2012-03-30 00:25:18 Forrest is now known as forrestv
 11 2012-03-30 00:33:22 supson has joined
 12 2012-03-30 00:34:41 JRWR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 13 2012-03-30 00:35:38 coingenuity has joined
 14 2012-03-30 00:36:41 localhost has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 15 2012-03-30 00:40:21 localhost has joined
 16 2012-03-30 00:42:40 wasabi2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 17 2012-03-30 00:48:50 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 18 2012-03-30 00:50:20 Cablesaurus has joined
 19 2012-03-30 00:50:20 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
 20 2012-03-30 00:50:20 Cablesaurus has joined
 21 2012-03-30 00:59:57 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: On the other hand, you have different fingers.)
 22 2012-03-30 01:02:48 Cablesaurus has joined
 23 2012-03-30 01:02:48 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
 24 2012-03-30 01:02:48 Cablesaurus has joined
 25 2012-03-30 01:03:03 da2ce7 has joined
 26 2012-03-30 01:05:29 wasabi1 has joined
 27 2012-03-30 01:07:31 Someguy123[afk] is now known as Someguy123
 28 2012-03-30 01:09:26 copumpkin has joined
 29 2012-03-30 01:14:17 asuk has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 30 2012-03-30 01:17:00 Someguy123 is now known as Someguy123[afk]
 31 2012-03-30 01:21:20 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: nanotube opened pull request 29 on bitcoin/bitcoin.org <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/pull/29> || nanotube opened pull request 28 on bitcoin/bitcoin.org <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/pull/28>
 32 2012-03-30 01:30:08 <gavinandresen> sipa: thanks, I put binaries up on sourceforge a while ago anticipating the sigs would match
 33 2012-03-30 01:32:04 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.)
 34 2012-03-30 01:33:45 Cablesaurus has joined
 35 2012-03-30 01:33:49 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
 36 2012-03-30 01:33:49 Cablesaurus has joined
 37 2012-03-30 01:34:17 barmstrong has joined
 38 2012-03-30 01:47:17 JZavala has joined
 39 2012-03-30 01:56:21 <sipa> gavinandresen: just realized that txn_checkpoint actually takes as argument the max number of log kbytes written, so the approximation with counting transactions is not ideal (though better than doing it via the number of blocks)
 40 2012-03-30 01:56:52 <gavinandresen> sipa: good thing 0.6 won't be our last release ever, then.
 41 2012-03-30 01:57:08 <gavinandresen> (i can live with not ideal for now)
 42 2012-03-30 02:05:59 Scully has joined
 43 2012-03-30 02:06:21 ageis has quit (Quit: http://ageispolis.net)
 44 2012-03-30 02:12:53 JRWR has joined
 45 2012-03-30 02:19:06 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 46 2012-03-30 02:25:56 k9quaint has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 47 2012-03-30 02:32:33 user has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 48 2012-03-30 02:43:06 stalled_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 49 2012-03-30 02:47:08 Detritus has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
 50 2012-03-30 02:57:34 ageis has joined
 51 2012-03-30 03:01:44 Detritus has joined
 52 2012-03-30 03:26:07 TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)
 53 2012-03-30 03:26:16 [7] has joined
 54 2012-03-30 03:39:21 stalled has joined
 55 2012-03-30 03:39:53 JRWR has quit (Quit: "If the dinosaurs had a space program, they'd still be here." - Ron Garan)
 56 2012-03-30 03:44:17 stalled has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 57 2012-03-30 03:47:41 ageis has quit (Quit: http://ageispolis.net)
 58 2012-03-30 03:49:14 ageis has joined
 59 2012-03-30 03:50:08 torsthaldo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 60 2012-03-30 03:55:01 stalled has joined
 61 2012-03-30 04:02:08 Z0rZ0rZ0r has quit (Quit: Wheeeee)
 62 2012-03-30 04:04:44 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 63 2012-03-30 04:07:44 Sedra- has joined
 64 2012-03-30 04:10:05 midnightmagic has quit (Quit: quit)
 65 2012-03-30 04:10:39 Sedra has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 66 2012-03-30 04:16:09 vigilyn has joined
 67 2012-03-30 04:18:11 midnightmagic has joined
 68 2012-03-30 04:24:03 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 69 2012-03-30 04:27:28 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 70 2012-03-30 04:31:18 bitfil has left ()
 71 2012-03-30 04:32:01 stalled_ has joined
 72 2012-03-30 04:34:43 stalled has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 73 2012-03-30 04:37:42 phungus has quit (Quit: leaving)
 74 2012-03-30 04:38:18 RazielZ has joined
 75 2012-03-30 04:39:47 phungi is now known as phungus
 76 2012-03-30 04:40:09 ELT has quit (Quit: leaving)
 77 2012-03-30 04:46:49 ELT has joined
 78 2012-03-30 04:57:30 phungi has joined
 79 2012-03-30 04:59:11 phungus is now known as phungio
 80 2012-03-30 04:59:17 phungi is now known as phungus
 81 2012-03-30 04:59:22 phungio is now known as phungi
 82 2012-03-30 05:01:04 k9quaint has joined
 83 2012-03-30 05:06:42 ThomasV has joined
 84 2012-03-30 05:15:00 minimoose has joined
 85 2012-03-30 05:24:33 dwon has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 86 2012-03-30 05:26:18 <BlueMatt> nanotube: git rebase
 87 2012-03-30 05:27:06 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 88 2012-03-30 05:27:47 tower has joined
 89 2012-03-30 05:30:41 Slix` has joined
 90 2012-03-30 05:41:22 cande has joined
 91 2012-03-30 05:43:53 ferroh2 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 92 2012-03-30 05:44:16 Cory has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 93 2012-03-30 05:44:42 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 94 2012-03-30 05:47:31 andytoshi has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 95 2012-03-30 05:48:23 Cory has joined
 96 2012-03-30 05:57:02 bonks has joined
 97 2012-03-30 05:57:16 bonks has left ()
 98 2012-03-30 06:03:16 Slix` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 99 2012-03-30 06:10:24 <ferroh> in the big long apt-get string in the readme-qt.rst file in the satoshi client dir,
100 2012-03-30 06:10:36 <ferroh> it doesn't mention miniupnpc as a necessary package
101 2012-03-30 06:10:48 <ferroh> might be helpful for some to include that in the string
102 2012-03-30 06:11:44 <ferroh> hmm.. although on the other hand, this still isn't building with that package installed grr
103 2012-03-30 06:16:01 da2ce7 has joined
104 2012-03-30 06:19:05 <ferroh> oh, i needed libminiupnpc-dev
105 2012-03-30 06:19:45 osmosis has joined
106 2012-03-30 06:24:53 twmz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
107 2012-03-30 06:24:58 twmz has joined
108 2012-03-30 06:25:06 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
109 2012-03-30 06:45:33 BTC_Bear is now known as BTC_Bear|hbrntng
110 2012-03-30 06:57:33 Joric has joined
111 2012-03-30 07:02:51 ThiagoCMC has joined
112 2012-03-30 07:04:12 t7 has joined
113 2012-03-30 07:04:26 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
114 2012-03-30 07:06:08 Joric_ has joined
115 2012-03-30 07:06:12 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
116 2012-03-30 07:11:46 Cory has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
117 2012-03-30 07:17:31 Joric has joined
118 2012-03-30 07:17:32 Joric has quit (Changing host)
119 2012-03-30 07:17:32 Joric has joined
120 2012-03-30 07:19:13 Cory has joined
121 2012-03-30 07:19:31 ThomasV has joined
122 2012-03-30 07:19:56 Joric_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
123 2012-03-30 07:27:27 BCBot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
124 2012-03-30 07:28:25 Ahimoth_ has joined
125 2012-03-30 07:28:51 Ahimoth has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
126 2012-03-30 07:28:53 Ahimoth_ is now known as Ahimoth
127 2012-03-30 07:29:52 t7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
128 2012-03-30 07:32:24 Joric_ has joined
129 2012-03-30 07:32:24 Joric_ has quit (Changing host)
130 2012-03-30 07:32:24 Joric_ has joined
131 2012-03-30 07:33:07 BCBot has joined
132 2012-03-30 07:34:23 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
133 2012-03-30 07:38:40 vragnaroda has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
134 2012-03-30 07:40:50 Joric has joined
135 2012-03-30 07:41:14 Joric_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
136 2012-03-30 07:45:46 Turingi has joined
137 2012-03-30 07:45:58 fiddur has joined
138 2012-03-30 07:54:28 Clipse has joined
139 2012-03-30 07:56:33 sneak has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
140 2012-03-30 07:58:29 k9quaint has joined
141 2012-03-30 07:58:29 wasabi1 has joined
142 2012-03-30 07:58:29 imsaguy has joined
143 2012-03-30 08:03:34 tower has joined
144 2012-03-30 08:05:45 lh77 has joined
145 2012-03-30 08:12:50 cdecker has joined
146 2012-03-30 08:15:44 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
147 2012-03-30 08:19:01 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
148 2012-03-30 08:21:09 copumpkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
149 2012-03-30 08:22:22 cdecker has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
150 2012-03-30 08:22:47 copumpkin has joined
151 2012-03-30 08:34:31 sneak has joined
152 2012-03-30 08:36:02 Diablo-D3 has joined
153 2012-03-30 08:42:35 t7 has joined
154 2012-03-30 08:43:33 gjs278 has joined
155 2012-03-30 08:44:04 asuk has joined
156 2012-03-30 08:45:15 jeewee has joined
157 2012-03-30 08:47:40 Ahimoth_ has joined
158 2012-03-30 08:47:57 mrsy_ has quit (Quit: leaving)
159 2012-03-30 08:50:57 Ahimoth has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
160 2012-03-30 08:50:58 Ahimoth_ is now known as Ahimoth
161 2012-03-30 08:52:58 cdecker has joined
162 2012-03-30 08:54:25 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
163 2012-03-30 08:55:23 gjs278 has joined
164 2012-03-30 08:55:50 da2ce7 has joined
165 2012-03-30 09:01:00 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
166 2012-03-30 09:05:03 gjs278 has joined
167 2012-03-30 09:13:26 RazielZ has quit ()
168 2012-03-30 09:14:12 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
169 2012-03-30 09:15:02 pickett has joined
170 2012-03-30 09:30:16 asuk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
171 2012-03-30 09:30:29 asuk has joined
172 2012-03-30 09:44:09 graingert has joined
173 2012-03-30 09:51:30 Scully has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
174 2012-03-30 09:52:31 Scully has joined
175 2012-03-30 09:54:49 Cory has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
176 2012-03-30 09:57:51 Cory has joined
177 2012-03-30 09:58:07 RazielZ has joined
178 2012-03-30 10:02:00 Internet13 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
179 2012-03-30 10:03:40 Ahimoth_ has joined
180 2012-03-30 10:05:28 da2ce7 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
181 2012-03-30 10:06:42 da2ce7 has joined
182 2012-03-30 10:07:32 Internet13 has joined
183 2012-03-30 10:07:37 Ahimoth has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
184 2012-03-30 10:07:38 Ahimoth_ is now known as Ahimoth
185 2012-03-30 10:12:44 Joric_ has joined
186 2012-03-30 10:14:24 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
187 2012-03-30 10:18:06 Joric_ is now known as Joric
188 2012-03-30 10:21:18 dvide has joined
189 2012-03-30 10:22:43 <t7> dead in here...
190 2012-03-30 10:24:49 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
191 2012-03-30 10:25:14 gjs278 has joined
192 2012-03-30 10:25:16 Cory has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
193 2012-03-30 10:27:42 <sipa> often at this hour
194 2012-03-30 10:30:17 Joric_ has joined
195 2012-03-30 10:30:17 Joric_ has quit (Changing host)
196 2012-03-30 10:30:17 Joric_ has joined
197 2012-03-30 10:32:03 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
198 2012-03-30 10:33:50 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
199 2012-03-30 10:40:42 Nicksasa has joined
200 2012-03-30 10:40:42 Nicksasa has quit (Changing host)
201 2012-03-30 10:40:42 Nicksasa has joined
202 2012-03-30 10:47:27 Joric_ is now known as Joric
203 2012-03-30 10:49:45 <t7> do the devs accept donations?
204 2012-03-30 10:50:56 <t7> sipa are you formally proving something bitcoin related?
205 2012-03-30 10:55:31 vragnaroda has joined
206 2012-03-30 11:00:59 <sipa> not really; donations are certainly welcome, but there is no central donation box or something for the dev team
207 2012-03-30 11:01:18 <t7> (i saw something on your github)
208 2012-03-30 11:03:57 <coingenuity> sipa: just my 0.02, it'd be nice if there was
209 2012-03-30 11:04:06 <coingenuity> also @ gavinandresen jgarzik etc
210 2012-03-30 11:04:10 <coingenuity> :)
211 2012-03-30 11:04:55 <coingenuity> it'd be simply badass if a central dev donation system can create a full-time job for you guys
212 2012-03-30 11:14:48 occulta has joined
213 2012-03-30 11:18:12 Ahimoth_ has joined
214 2012-03-30 11:18:50 t7 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
215 2012-03-30 11:19:16 t7 has joined
216 2012-03-30 11:21:23 cdecker has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
217 2012-03-30 11:21:59 Ahimoth has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
218 2012-03-30 11:21:59 Ahimoth_ is now known as Ahimoth
219 2012-03-30 11:22:50 Cory has joined
220 2012-03-30 11:22:58 <Joric> i got ~25 btc from donations and bounties, mostly from etotheipi_ :)
221 2012-03-30 11:29:14 cdecker has joined
222 2012-03-30 11:34:15 cdecker has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
223 2012-03-30 11:43:36 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
224 2012-03-30 11:47:04 cdecker has joined
225 2012-03-30 11:57:34 <etotheipi_> Joric, haha... well you've been helpful, with both Satoshi wallet compiling and OSX stuff
226 2012-03-30 11:57:35 t7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
227 2012-03-30 12:00:58 JRWR has joined
228 2012-03-30 12:01:46 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: you might be interested in my 2-person escrow design notes: https://gist.github.com/830ca16758fb9ad496d7
229 2012-03-30 12:02:16 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: there's an idea at the bottom for funding client development (failed escrows go to client developers)
230 2012-03-30 12:02:43 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen, fantastic!  I'll read through it
231 2012-03-30 12:03:10 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen, I've got a few important upgrades, but then I'll be tackling multi-sig prob within the next month
232 2012-03-30 12:05:35 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen, any thoughts about using "deposits"?
233 2012-03-30 12:06:03 <etotheipi_> A wants to buy something for 10 BTC from B, so they select a "risk level":  30%, so A puts in 13 BTC and B puts in 3 BTC
234 2012-03-30 12:06:22 <etotheipi_> it would be a multi-input transaction to a multi-signature output
235 2012-03-30 12:06:29 <gavinandresen> I think that will be confusing for most people-- if YOU are paying ME, why do I have to pay???
236 2012-03-30 12:06:51 SomeoneWeird is now known as SomeoneWeirdzzz
237 2012-03-30 12:07:03 <gmaxwell> er. backupwallet rpc doesn't appear to be working.
238 2012-03-30 12:07:35 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen, admittedly, I haven't fully absorbed your post yet, i just noticed that wasn't part of it and I've seen it suggested quite a few times
239 2012-03-30 12:07:37 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened issue 1013 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1013>
240 2012-03-30 12:07:46 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: I never liked the backupwallet code, too much voodoo in there....
241 2012-03-30 12:09:23 <gmaxwell> bleh. It's writing it to the directory bitcoind was initially started from now... I'm pretty sure it didn't do that before.
242 2012-03-30 12:09:39 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen, the nice thing about that is that if you make the "risk level" >= 15%, you could have third-party arbitrators who get involved knowing that there's 30% already in the tx for them to take as a fee
243 2012-03-30 12:10:10 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: phew, you had me worried.  I think that IS the same behavior as always
244 2012-03-30 12:10:30 <etotheipi_> in the event of no dispute, A and B get their money back... but if there is, they appeal to the third-party who takes the X% extra as fee
245 2012-03-30 12:10:52 <etotheipi_> which also guarantees that both parties contributed to that fee
246 2012-03-30 12:11:08 <etotheipi_> it's not just one side who ends up paying for the arbitrator
247 2012-03-30 12:11:20 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: I'm all for Trying More Than One Way.  I just think it will be hard for people to understand the whole "We both have to deposit before the transaction starts" idea
248 2012-03-30 12:11:34 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen, fair enough
249 2012-03-30 12:12:21 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen, I liked the "elegance" of the idea because it allows for working with or without a third-party, and both original parties are invested in finishing the tx without a third-party
250 2012-03-30 12:12:37 <etotheipi_> but you are certainly right that it could be confusing
251 2012-03-30 12:14:50 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen, sorry I don't know enough about locktime... but does the LAZY_ALICE scenario actually work?
252 2012-03-30 12:15:19 <etotheipi_> I thought if you submit a transaction that has a final sequence number but a future locktime... it will just be accepted by the network and just can't be spent until locktime expires
253 2012-03-30 12:15:25 <gavinandresen> Sure.  All transactions must have locktime <= block.time
254 2012-03-30 12:15:26 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
255 2012-03-30 12:15:41 <sipa> gmaxwell: it does work with an absolute pathname, no?
256 2012-03-30 12:16:33 <gmaxwell> sipa: Yep. Weird. I thought it pulled the cwd from the calling rpc command if you didn't provide one— just must have been dumb luck on my part. Broke one of my scripts here. My error.
257 2012-03-30 12:16:35 <Joric> i remember they actually have, but it's not used atm, a whole uint32
258 2012-03-30 12:16:44 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: oh, but if a conflicting transaction comes in with no locktime what happens... good question
259 2012-03-30 12:18:51 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen, thanks ... I'm going to ponder this... and probably come back for more discussions about it later
260 2012-03-30 12:19:08 <etotheipi_> (for now I need to finish up Armory RAM-reduction and compressed public keys)
261 2012-03-30 12:19:40 <Joric> does client take lock_time into account? should delay transaction for a certain number of blocks if i remember right
262 2012-03-30 12:21:56 <sipa> Joric: number of blocks or timestamp
263 2012-03-30 12:23:19 <sipa> gavinandresen: afaik a locked transaction is not considered any less valid (so the conflicting one will be a conflict), just not yet acceptable into a block
264 2012-03-30 12:24:36 <etotheipi_> sipa, so it's really dependent on how long nodes keep it in their memory pool, then?
265 2012-03-30 12:24:47 <gavinandresen> sipa: I think you're right, but that seems wrong.
266 2012-03-30 12:25:08 <sipa> gavinandresen: the system to overrule that was transaction replacement, but that is disabled
267 2012-03-30 12:25:26 datagutt has joined
268 2012-03-30 12:25:31 <sipa> (afaik)
269 2012-03-30 12:25:44 <etotheipi_> how does Satoshi client deal with that?  will it receive the locked transactions, verify it, and then keep it in its memory pool forever?
270 2012-03-30 12:26:00 <sipa> i suppose, yes
271 2012-03-30 12:26:15 <sipa> looking at CTransaction::IsFinal, i notice something strange
272 2012-03-30 12:27:03 <sipa> a transaction with nLockTime in the future, but all its inputs at sequence number 0xFFFFFFFF, is considered final
273 2012-03-30 12:27:12 <sipa> ok, that's not too strange, actualle
274 2012-03-30 12:27:39 <etotheipi_> final means it can't be replaced
275 2012-03-30 12:27:42 <sipa> indeed
276 2012-03-30 12:28:10 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1014 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1014>
277 2012-03-30 12:28:37 <etotheipi_> so, it would work if you could somehow convince miners to include a conflicting tx into the blockchain before the locktime...
278 2012-03-30 12:28:46 <etotheipi_> but that conflicting tx would not propagate
279 2012-03-30 12:29:34 <etotheipi_> (by itself)
280 2012-03-30 12:34:03 <gavinandresen> Will have to think about this some more, but my initial thought is that transactions with lockTime more than (mumble) minutes in the future shouldn't go into the memory pool
281 2012-03-30 12:34:58 Ahimoth_ has joined
282 2012-03-30 12:35:09 <gavinandresen> Replacement could open up a DoS attack:  I could give you an almost endless stream of the same transaction, just decrementing lockTime, and get you to do an endless relay / ECDSA signature verification
283 2012-03-30 12:35:32 Ahimoth has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
284 2012-03-30 12:35:32 Ahimoth_ is now known as Ahimoth
285 2012-03-30 12:36:42 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen, perhaps replacement algorithm could check whether the replacing transaction actually uses different inputs... meaning the DoS attack requires you to sign as many messages as I have to verify
286 2012-03-30 12:37:09 <etotheipi_> err... check 1)  use different inputs?   check 2) verify signatures
287 2012-03-30 12:37:21 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: but LAZY_ALICE and DISPUTE both use the same input.
288 2012-03-30 12:37:41 <etotheipi_> oh wait...
289 2012-03-30 12:37:46 <etotheipi_> but they have to be re-signed
290 2012-03-30 12:37:55 <etotheipi_> I think that's already the case:  you change the locktime, you need a new sig
291 2012-03-30 12:38:07 BTC_Bear is now known as BTC_Bear|hbrntng
292 2012-03-30 12:38:13 <gavinandresen> true
293 2012-03-30 12:38:56 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
294 2012-03-30 12:40:32 <gavinandresen> There might still be some advantage to an attacker if they could pre-compute a gazillion signatures and then flood the network with them
295 2012-03-30 12:44:18 ThomasV has joined
296 2012-03-30 12:46:47 JRWR has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
297 2012-03-30 13:05:13 Z0rZ0rZ0r has joined
298 2012-03-30 13:18:05 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
299 2012-03-30 13:24:18 cdecker has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
300 2012-03-30 13:25:13 ThomasV has joined
301 2012-03-30 13:29:49 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
302 2012-03-30 13:36:54 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
303 2012-03-30 13:40:55 Nicksasa has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
304 2012-03-30 13:42:05 Nicksasa has joined
305 2012-03-30 13:45:49 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
306 2012-03-30 13:48:07 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen, I think there's a further problem in your proposal:  it looks like the LAZY_ALICE tx is a single point of failure for Alice
307 2012-03-30 13:48:27 Ahimoth_ has joined
308 2012-03-30 13:48:33 <etotheipi_> Once bob has that tx, he just doesn't do *anything*... doesn't send the merchandise, becomes unreachable
309 2012-03-30 13:48:43 <etotheipi_> and in 31 days time he gets the money
310 2012-03-30 13:48:54 <gavinandresen> Alice needs to send the DISPUTE transaction before then
311 2012-03-30 13:49:51 <etotheipi_> well then it's race to see which tx can make it into the blockchain first
312 2012-03-30 13:50:18 <gavinandresen> Yeah, I was thinking in the shower this morning that DISPUTE should have a hefty fee attached
313 2012-03-30 13:50:27 <etotheipi_> and the DISPUTE is really just to try to prevent Bob from screwing Alice (non-literally), Alice doesn't win anything other than prevent Bob from winning
314 2012-03-30 13:51:12 <gavinandresen> Sure, you could make it more complicated and have bob and alice fund the A+B and then have two versions of dispute that refunding to various people
315 2012-03-30 13:52:16 <etotheipi_> I think this is why we came up with the "deposit" method... because I don't see a clean way to do this unless both parties have investments in the tx that they get back if everything goes smoothly -- i.e. both have an incentive to just do things right and not get silly
316 2012-03-30 13:52:19 Ahimoth has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
317 2012-03-30 13:52:20 Ahimoth_ is now known as Ahimoth
318 2012-03-30 13:52:38 <gavinandresen> ok.  My case would be a "Bob deposits zero" degenerate case
319 2012-03-30 13:52:45 <etotheipi_> though it doesn't have a trigger in place if no one does anything... though the third-party is presumably very reliable
320 2012-03-30 13:54:20 <etotheipi_> I've seen a lot of fancy things that can be done with nlocktime&replacement if it was enabled... but it's not going to help me get something into Armory next month
321 2012-03-30 13:56:08 <gavinandresen> there aren't going to be reliable trusted third parties next month, either
322 2012-03-30 13:57:00 <etotheipi_> on the other hand, my proposed idea (amalgamated from the previous discussions on the forum) involves using an alternate hashcode to make sure that Alice puts in 1.X and Bob puts in 0.X into the same tx with A&B output
323 2012-03-30 13:57:16 <etotheipi_> I was actually in the process of writing it up...
324 2012-03-30 13:57:31 <gavinandresen> cool, I'd be interested in reading it
325 2012-03-30 13:57:46 <etotheipi_> it can be done without alternate hashcodes, but it's a couple extra steps because of change outputs, etc
326 2012-03-30 13:58:30 <etotheipi_> of course, I should triple-check that alternate hashcodes will be accepted as isStandard
327 2012-03-30 13:58:32 cande has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
328 2012-03-30 13:58:44 <Blitzboom> hm, will bitcoin.org  list alternative clients in the future?
329 2012-03-30 13:58:46 copumpkin has joined
330 2012-03-30 13:58:52 copumpkin has quit (Changing host)
331 2012-03-30 13:58:52 copumpkin has joined
332 2012-03-30 13:58:56 <gavinandresen> I'm still very skeptical that there will be many Alices that say "Sure, I'll put 11 BTC into this transaction when I'm paying 10BTC for something" or many Bob's who will say "Sure, I know Alice is paying me but I'm happy to chip in 1 BTC"
333 2012-03-30 13:59:36 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen, I agree, but I think it's not unreasonable if an appropriate explanation is given
334 2012-03-30 13:59:38 <gavinandresen> ... even if it is all phrased as "security deposit" ....
335 2012-03-30 14:00:33 <etotheipi_> and worst case, people who understand it will use it, and something else will crop up for those that don't understand/want to do it
336 2012-03-30 14:01:41 <gavinandresen> well, worst case is you implement it, six people love it to death but it confuses the heck out of six hundred people and causes you lots of customer support.
337 2012-03-30 14:01:51 <gavinandresen> Then you remove it and those six people hate you forever.
338 2012-03-30 14:01:59 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen, lol, fair enough
339 2012-03-30 14:02:32 <etotheipi_> though if you've seen Armory:  I tend to put endless warnings and explanations into all the dialogs to prevent users from even aiming their gun at their own foot, much less firing
340 2012-03-30 14:03:04 Clipse has joined
341 2012-03-30 14:03:04 <gavinandresen> I haven't tried Armory yet, but now that it is starting to work on the Mac....
342 2012-03-30 14:03:05 <etotheipi_> doesn't mean people won't just blindly click through the dialogs... but it should cut down on it
343 2012-03-30 14:03:22 <gavinandresen> Have you shipped end-user software products before?
344 2012-03-30 14:03:23 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen, I should have a RAM-reduced version this weekend for Linux&OSX
345 2012-03-30 14:03:41 <gavinandresen> (I'm very skeptical that users will read more than 7 words on any dialog box)
346 2012-03-30 14:04:00 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen, no I have not
347 2012-03-30 14:04:00 <gavinandresen> (ok, 7 is exaggerating.  140 characters.)
348 2012-03-30 14:04:05 <sipa> gavinandresen: i don't think people read unexpected dialog boxes at all
349 2012-03-30 14:04:10 <sipa> they're a nuisance
350 2012-03-30 14:04:31 <gavinandresen> ok ok ok ok
351 2012-03-30 14:04:32 <sipa> if there's a button dismiss, they will click it
352 2012-03-30 14:04:45 <gavinandresen> blah blah ok blah blah ok
353 2012-03-30 14:05:19 <etotheipi_> I guess I'm just not seeing a reliable way to implement the escrow without some negative financial reinforcement for both parties if they screw it up
354 2012-03-30 14:05:45 <sipa> so it's an escrew?
355 2012-03-30 14:05:53 <sipa> (sorry, bad joke)
356 2012-03-30 14:06:10 <etotheipi_> if Bob never puts anything in... then he can just trick Alice into dumping some coins into this A&B tx which he will subsequently ignore and then disappear
357 2012-03-30 14:06:12 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: There's a very good chance I'm wrong, I think lots of experimentation is needed.
358 2012-03-30 14:06:12 ThomasV has joined
359 2012-03-30 14:06:39 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: I am assuming Bob has a reputation
360 2012-03-30 14:06:48 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen, but we're talking trust-free
361 2012-03-30 14:06:56 <etotheipi_> or as close as we can get
362 2012-03-30 14:07:14 <etotheipi_> if Bob has a reputation, then perhaps the deposit can be 0% (a trivial case of the general solution)
363 2012-03-30 14:07:21 Joric_ has joined
364 2012-03-30 14:07:21 Joric_ has quit (Changing host)
365 2012-03-30 14:07:21 Joric_ has joined
366 2012-03-30 14:07:28 <etotheipi_> but if we're talking ebay or craigslist
367 2012-03-30 14:07:46 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: so practical matter:  are Alice and Bob's clients talking to each other in real-time to negotiate the deposit?
368 2012-03-30 14:08:00 <gavinandresen> Or do they somehow negotiate in advance?
369 2012-03-30 14:08:01 <jgarzik> coingenuity: I've never objected to people buying us beer :)
370 2012-03-30 14:08:33 <etotheipi_> ... I could just post all sorts of things and have people dump money into A&B transactions that I will never touch... or maybe come back later and extort the money "you're not going to see the money ever again anyway: but you can get half of it back if you sign this tx"
371 2012-03-30 14:09:32 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: sure, I absolutely see how the both-parties-deposit solution solves the Alice-doesn't-trust-Bob-at-all issue.
372 2012-03-30 14:09:47 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
373 2012-03-30 14:09:59 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: I just don't see how to make it easy enough for typical Alices and Bobs to understand.
374 2012-03-30 14:10:12 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen, I am not entirely clear on the interchange yet:  I had planned on BIP 0010 allowing people to manually send each other packets, and then it could be transitioned to client-based exchange later
375 2012-03-30 14:10:28 Joric_ is now known as Joric
376 2012-03-30 14:10:36 cdecker has joined
377 2012-03-30 14:11:08 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen, the escrow transaction will only be created by a single transaction that include inputs from both parties... no one party puts their money in before the other
378 2012-03-30 14:11:13 <gavinandresen> I think any solution that requires the payer to not be lazy won't work in practice.
379 2012-03-30 14:11:25 <etotheipi_> which means that both parties have financial interest in completing the transaction
380 2012-03-30 14:11:57 <etotheipi_> nothing motivates people to not be lazy like getting a refund
381 2012-03-30 14:12:10 <etotheipi_> but your point is not lost on me
382 2012-03-30 14:12:18 <gavinandresen> Meh.  Alice gets a laptop computer and then loses a couple bitcoins deposit because her computer caught on fire.
383 2012-03-30 14:12:34 <gavinandresen> Bob gets screwed...
384 2012-03-30 14:12:54 <etotheipi_> for small transactions, you can take that risk... for large transactions, that's what the third party is for
385 2012-03-30 14:13:44 <etotheipi_> they are part of the 2-of-3 tx, and will help one party recover money if the other party disappears... taking those same deposits as a fee
386 2012-03-30 14:14:02 <etotheipi_> and that also means that the third-party is then funded by both A and B
387 2012-03-30 14:14:11 <etotheipi_> as opposed to A or B funding it entirely
388 2012-03-30 14:14:38 <gavinandresen> So bob and alice have to both deposit AND agree in advance to an arbitrator?
389 2012-03-30 14:14:38 cande has joined
390 2012-03-30 14:14:57 <etotheipi_> you can't have a third-party arbitrator without prior agreement on who it will be
391 2012-03-30 14:15:25 <gavinandresen> Sure you can, the coins could stay in limbo in a two-sig-required transaction until both agree on where they go
392 2012-03-30 14:15:58 <gavinandresen> (and the 'where they go' could be a 3-sig-required transaction)
393 2012-03-30 14:16:04 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen, but that's a huge risk on a large tx for the exact reason you suggested:  one party could have an unexpected disaster (computer explosion, death, etc)
394 2012-03-30 14:16:30 <gavinandresen> true.
395 2012-03-30 14:16:41 <etotheipi_> I think it would be possible for someone to start a companyu
396 2012-03-30 14:17:00 <etotheipi_> the sole purpose of the company is to have a website where you can retreive and verify addresses belonging to that third party
397 2012-03-30 14:17:10 <etotheipi_> they don't even need to be aware that they are being included as a third-party on the tx
398 2012-03-30 14:17:28 <etotheipi_> but as long as there is at least 15% deposit from both parties as part of the tx, they can be contacted later to resolve the dispute
399 2012-03-30 14:17:43 <etotheipi_> and the money is already there to pay their fee
400 2012-03-30 14:18:46 <gavinandresen> We should stop talking and start designing/implementing.  There Will Be Dragons along the way, I'm sure....
401 2012-03-30 14:18:59 <etotheipi_> agreed... I'm running into them in my thought process right now
402 2012-03-30 14:19:17 <etotheipi_> but I've been thinking about this particular idea (blind third-party until needed) for a while
403 2012-03-30 14:19:27 <gavinandresen> yup.  that's why I put up the design gist, to shake out stuff like lockTime and the memory pool.....
404 2012-03-30 14:19:42 <etotheipi_> yeah yeah... formal documentation...
405 2012-03-30 14:19:46 <etotheipi_> :)
406 2012-03-30 14:20:20 <etotheipi_> I'll do it once I finish RAM-reduction in Armory (it's done, but the UI needs a lot of interface upgrades to accommodate)
407 2012-03-30 14:20:40 <gavinandresen> well, we could easily screw it up really badly by designing what we think is a cheat-proof system that turns out to be easily cheated
408 2012-03-30 14:21:15 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen, you know as well as I do that there is a threshold:  a lot of things can be threshed out through thought-experiments before going to the effort to implement and test
409 2012-03-30 14:21:29 <etotheipi_> but at some point you have no choice but to start implementing and testing
410 2012-03-30 14:21:59 <etotheipi_> I'm mainly looking for sanity checks on some of my ideas:  but I'll throw them into gists when I get some time to formalize them
411 2012-03-30 14:23:26 <Joric> did anyone manage to compile/run satoshi client on cellphones?
412 2012-03-30 14:24:13 <etotheipi_> speaking of formalization:  how is signature collection going to work with Satoshi?  is it kind of figure-it-out-on-your-own right now?  I think it would be great to iron out BIP 10 and clean up some of the terminology so that something exists before developers start doing their own things
413 2012-03-30 14:24:14 <sipa> i believe luke-jr compiled it for (on?) a N900
414 2012-03-30 14:24:25 <luke-jr> N900 isn't a cellphone tho
415 2012-03-30 14:24:38 <sipa> can you make calls with it?
416 2012-03-30 14:24:53 <etotheipi_> BIP 10 is already used in Armory's offline-transactions/cold-storage
417 2012-03-30 14:24:54 <luke-jr> sipa: same way you can on any other laptop
418 2012-03-30 14:24:56 <Joric> probably, for, 'on' is too hardcore
419 2012-03-30 14:25:05 <luke-jr> Joric: no, 'on' is correct
420 2012-03-30 14:25:09 <luke-jr> I run Gentoo.
421 2012-03-30 14:25:16 <etotheipi_> but for multi-sig and multi-client environments, it needs to be more rigorous and versatile
422 2012-03-30 14:25:26 <luke-jr> I run Gentoo on my N900
423 2012-03-30 14:26:24 <sipa> luke-jr: it's the size of a phone, and it has hardware to connect to the cell phone network; to me, that qualifies as a phone :)
424 2012-03-30 14:26:30 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: I don't know yet how signature collection will work.  Magically behind the scenes, I hope
425 2012-03-30 14:26:50 Someguy123[afk] is now known as Someguy123
426 2012-03-30 14:27:06 Turingi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
427 2012-03-30 14:27:10 <Joric> i just checked looks like n900 is little-endian
428 2012-03-30 14:27:16 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: by the way, did you see the other gist I've been working on:  https://gist.github.com/2217885
429 2012-03-30 14:27:21 <etotheipi_> well then I think we should make an effort to clean up BIP 10 or find an alternative:  so far it's worked very well, and gmaxwell came with a great security modification that makes it even more secure
430 2012-03-30 14:27:32 <luke-jr> Joric: ARM is LE by default, yes
431 2012-03-30 14:27:52 <luke-jr> sipa: all its earlier models didn't have cellular capabilities :P
432 2012-03-30 14:27:57 <etotheipi_> (gmaxwell's suggestion is already part of BIP 10 and used in Armory -- for including previous transactions so that input values can be verified by node without blockchain)
433 2012-03-30 14:27:58 <Joric> there were some endianness controversial parts if i remember right
434 2012-03-30 14:28:10 <luke-jr> Joric: Satoshi client does *not* work in BE
435 2012-03-30 14:28:36 Someguy123 is now known as Someguy123[afk]
436 2012-03-30 14:28:46 Someguy123[afk] is now known as Someguy123
437 2012-03-30 14:30:33 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
438 2012-03-30 14:31:16 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen, btw:  on the topic of of creating and exchanging public keys for 2-factor-auth -- that was part of my design goal with Armory wallets;  one device has full wallet A and watching-only B, another has full B and watch-only A... they both trivially create the same sequence of 2-of-2 addresses
439 2012-03-30 14:32:52 <gavinandresen> neat.  What's the easiest platform to get Armory running on?  Linux?
440 2012-03-30 14:33:22 copumpkin has joined
441 2012-03-30 14:33:28 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen, that 2-of-2 thing is not implemented yet
442 2012-03-30 14:33:39 <etotheipi_> but yes, Linux is pretty damned easy:  6 CLI commands
443 2012-03-30 14:33:50 <gavinandresen> darn, I was hoping you'd solve all the GUI issues for us
444 2012-03-30 14:33:58 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen,  :)
445 2012-03-30 14:33:59 <Diablo-D3> [10:26:37] <luke-jr> Joric: ARM is LE by default, yes
446 2012-03-30 14:34:09 <Diablo-D3> theres only three archs worthy of note that are whores
447 2012-03-30 14:34:14 <Diablo-D3> arm, powerpc, and mips
448 2012-03-30 14:34:20 <jgarzik> does anybody have python code that successfully verifies the block chain, including transactions?
449 2012-03-30 14:34:28 <luke-jr> I like bi-endian.
450 2012-03-30 14:34:28 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit did, didn't he?
451 2012-03-30 14:34:40 <Diablo-D3> you almost never see arm outside of LE, you almost never see powerpc out of BE, and mips is sort of a toss up
452 2012-03-30 14:34:43 <luke-jr> in theory, you can use BE for everything sane, and only compile the rare insane code for LE
453 2012-03-30 14:34:44 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen, all the wallet stuff under-the-hood can already do it... I just need to get my blockchain scanning updated with BIP 16 and make a UI
454 2012-03-30 14:34:50 <Diablo-D3> I think mips is the only OS linux supports both mipsel and mipsbe
455 2012-03-30 14:34:58 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen, http://bitcoinarmory.com/index.php/building-armory-from-source
456 2012-03-30 14:35:16 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: or I can just use libmowgli2
457 2012-03-30 14:35:21 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen, but if your linux box is short on RAM, wait a couple days
458 2012-03-30 14:35:21 * jgarzik finds libbitcoin to be a useless distraction, but a real pybitcoin that knows block chain and network would be nice.  I've tired of hacking ArtForz' half-a-node :)
459 2012-03-30 14:35:23 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: there is armbe ... debian linux used to be be, though they changed. I think the BE builds are still supported.
460 2012-03-30 14:35:35 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: they tried armbe but I think their armbe guy comitted suicide
461 2012-03-30 14:35:40 <helo> etotheipi_: a couple days? :D
462 2012-03-30 14:35:49 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: its really rare to see armbe out there though
463 2012-03-30 14:35:51 <etotheipi_> helo, I'm hoping to get a testing release out today
464 2012-03-30 14:35:59 <etotheipi_> (just for linux & osx)
465 2012-03-30 14:36:08 <helo> good news...
466 2012-03-30 14:36:13 agricocb has joined
467 2012-03-30 14:36:42 <Diablo-D3> http://git.atheme.org/libmowgli-2/tree/src/libmowgli/platform/machine.h
468 2012-03-30 14:36:49 <Diablo-D3> THE HORROR
469 2012-03-30 14:37:05 <Diablo-D3> oh I forgot, itanium can be either as well
470 2012-03-30 14:37:54 <Diablo-D3> I need to add avr32 to that
471 2012-03-30 14:37:55 <Diablo-D3> and amiga
472 2012-03-30 14:38:46 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: hey, you wouldnt happen to know how to do a double cas atomically with just cas would you?
473 2012-03-30 14:39:14 ferroh has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
474 2012-03-30 14:49:15 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, i have something that will sort of do that
475 2012-03-30 14:49:21 <phantomcircuit> but it needs a lot of work before it's useful
476 2012-03-30 14:49:48 graingert has left ()
477 2012-03-30 14:50:43 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
478 2012-03-30 14:51:11 Joric_ has joined
479 2012-03-30 14:51:14 Joric_ has quit (Changing host)
480 2012-03-30 14:51:14 Joric_ has joined
481 2012-03-30 14:51:17 Joric_ has quit (Client Quit)
482 2012-03-30 14:52:15 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
483 2012-03-30 14:54:26 JRWR has joined
484 2012-03-30 14:55:27 <gavinandresen> sipa jgarzik gmaxwell : I've already repackaged the rc6 binaries and am in the process of uploading them to SourceForge as 0.6.0 final
485 2012-03-30 14:57:26 pusle has joined
486 2012-03-30 15:00:01 <sipa> gavinandresen: what about #1012 ?
487 2012-03-30 15:00:41 <gavinandresen> known issue
488 2012-03-30 15:00:46 occulta has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
489 2012-03-30 15:01:45 <sipa> fair enough
490 2012-03-30 15:01:57 <gavinandresen> I don't think a 25 second versus 12 second shutdown time is a showstopper
491 2012-03-30 15:02:05 Ahimoth_ has joined
492 2012-03-30 15:02:14 <gavinandresen> Both are an order of magnitude longer than I'd like it to be....
493 2012-03-30 15:02:25 <sipa> no, but without indication, i fear many people will kill it, or shut down their computer before it completes
494 2012-03-30 15:03:53 <gavinandresen> I think it's time to ship 0.6 today
495 2012-03-30 15:05:34 Ahimoth has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
496 2012-03-30 15:05:35 Ahimoth_ is now known as Ahimoth
497 2012-03-30 15:08:13 * luke-jr wishes 0.5.4 had enough testing he could say the same
498 2012-03-30 15:11:02 <gavinandresen> hmmm, looks like god is trying to tell me something with this SHASUM: addda717badaab03394828af28dc2f8ace265b3b  bitcoin-0.6.0-win32.zip
499 2012-03-30 15:11:09 <gavinandresen> message garbled, though....
500 2012-03-30 15:11:31 sje has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
501 2012-03-30 15:11:39 <sipa> add a bad aab?
502 2012-03-30 15:11:59 <gavinandresen> rewrite Bitcoin in ada ?
503 2012-03-30 15:12:31 jeewee has quit ()
504 2012-03-30 15:12:36 <gavinandresen> I'm a bad dad ?
505 2012-03-30 15:13:21 <sipa> no: ada bad, a baf dc ace
506 2012-03-30 15:13:27 <gavinandresen> maybe if I took all the previous shasums from the previous releases, interpreted them as ascii, crossed out every 11'th letter.....
507 2012-03-30 15:13:31 <sipa> was ada lovelace from DC?
508 2012-03-30 15:14:57 <gavinandresen> Ok, I've run out of reasons NOT to announce a final 0.6.0 release.  Am I forgetting anything?
509 2012-03-30 15:16:53 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: go for it, Apr 1 is coming up
510 2012-03-30 15:17:23 <luke-jr> but I veto my vote on the matter, as I won't be here much for a few days
511 2012-03-30 15:17:54 Turingi has joined
512 2012-03-30 15:21:36 <gavinandresen> I know what I forgot to do, I forgot to tag the tree and change the tarball/zipball links in the release notes....
513 2012-03-30 15:24:29 <Blitzboom> wow, loading blocks is extremely fast for me now
514 2012-03-30 15:24:42 supson has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
515 2012-03-30 15:24:51 <Blitzboom> 25% done in maybe 5 mins
516 2012-03-30 15:25:12 <Blitzboom> good job :D
517 2012-03-30 15:25:24 <sipa> Blitzboom: tell me if it completes in less than 31 minutes :)
518 2012-03-30 15:25:48 <Blitzboom> i’ll do it again to record the exact time
519 2012-03-30 15:26:28 <sipa> (that's how long it took me from a local file)
520 2012-03-30 15:28:27 <Blitzboom> the QR codes are a nice feature
521 2012-03-30 15:35:27 fiddur has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
522 2012-03-30 15:36:25 agricocb has joined
523 2012-03-30 15:36:26 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gavinandresen opened pull request 30 on bitcoin/bitcoin.org <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/pull/30>
524 2012-03-30 15:40:43 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
525 2012-03-30 15:41:29 pickett has joined
526 2012-03-30 15:44:44 Someguy123 is now known as Someguy123[afk]
527 2012-03-30 15:46:14 pierre` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
528 2012-03-30 15:49:49 RazielZ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
529 2012-03-30 15:51:17 RazielZ has joined
530 2012-03-30 15:53:59 Blitzboom_ has joined
531 2012-03-30 15:54:35 Blitzboom_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
532 2012-03-30 15:55:50 Blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
533 2012-03-30 16:08:02 Blitzboom has joined
534 2012-03-30 16:10:43 cdecker has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
535 2012-03-30 16:12:56 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
536 2012-03-30 16:15:35 Ahimoth_ has joined
537 2012-03-30 16:19:24 Ahimoth has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
538 2012-03-30 16:19:25 Ahimoth_ is now known as Ahimoth
539 2012-03-30 16:22:22 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: FWIW, BOOST_THREAD_USE_LIB makes zero difference to either compile output (build.log) or binaries, with 0.6.0rc5
540 2012-03-30 16:22:39 <luke-jr> (and the actual commit with it doesn't build)
541 2012-03-30 16:22:39 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
542 2012-03-30 16:25:17 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
543 2012-03-30 16:26:14 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not too sure.)
544 2012-03-30 16:28:02 ageis has quit (Quit: http://ageispolis.net)
545 2012-03-30 16:28:41 ageis has joined
546 2012-03-30 16:31:30 occulta has joined
547 2012-03-30 16:40:19 supson has joined
548 2012-03-30 16:42:56 BTC_Bear is now known as BTC_Bear|hbrntng
549 2012-03-30 16:45:31 RazielZ has joined
550 2012-03-30 16:46:08 finway has joined
551 2012-03-30 16:46:28 <finway> I think bitcoin.org missed something.
552 2012-03-30 16:47:06 <finway> At the top-right section, There's nothing behind "Latest version:"
553 2012-03-30 16:47:19 <finway> I guess there should be 0.6
554 2012-03-30 16:48:00 <finway> or 0.5.3.1
555 2012-03-30 16:50:24 <luke-jr> finway: well, Gavin just pushed 0.6.0 final out
556 2012-03-30 16:50:29 <luke-jr> so I presume it'll be fixed when that hits
557 2012-03-30 16:51:52 Cablesaurus has joined
558 2012-03-30 16:51:52 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
559 2012-03-30 16:51:52 Cablesaurus has joined
560 2012-03-30 16:51:54 <finway> Ok, i guess it's in middle-state
561 2012-03-30 16:53:53 <finway> luke-jr: is compressed pubkey less secure than long pubkey ?
562 2012-03-30 16:53:59 <sipa> finway: no
563 2012-03-30 16:54:06 <sipa> it's just a more efficient representation
564 2012-03-30 16:54:07 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
565 2012-03-30 16:54:41 <finway> sipa,thanks.
566 2012-03-30 16:55:05 <sipa> you can convert a compressed one into a normal one and vice-versa, one-to-one
567 2012-03-30 16:55:40 <finway> That's good.
568 2012-03-30 16:57:46 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: odd, I know it was required on some platform...
569 2012-03-30 16:59:51 <luke-jr> finway: note that converting between compressed and non-compressed changes the address, so bitcoind doesn't do it
570 2012-03-30 17:00:06 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: or maybe an older boost version
571 2012-03-30 17:00:41 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: do you recall if it was build errors, or some runtime or warnign thing?
572 2012-03-30 17:00:53 <luke-jr> if it was build errors, I can probably safely neglect the backport until someone hits it :P
573 2012-03-30 17:01:35 <luke-jr> or I guess it's safest to backport it once 0.6.0 is more adopted and it's tested
574 2012-03-30 17:01:47 Nicksasa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
575 2012-03-30 17:03:15 <finway> luke-jr: i hope i was a  C++  pro.
576 2012-03-30 17:03:33 <finway> then there wont be so many questions.
577 2012-03-30 17:03:41 <luke-jr> you wish?
578 2012-03-30 17:04:07 <finway> wish,hope, i can't tell the difference.
579 2012-03-30 17:04:22 Someguy123[afk] is now known as Someguy123
580 2012-03-30 17:04:36 <luke-jr> "wish" means you know it isn't reality; "hope" means something that may be future reality
581 2012-03-30 17:04:56 <finway> luke-jr, got it.
582 2012-03-30 17:05:01 <finway> wish
583 2012-03-30 17:05:45 <finway> though i barely know a little bit python.
584 2012-03-30 17:06:45 ThomasV has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
585 2012-03-30 17:07:20 <finway> are BIP30 supported by most miners ?
586 2012-03-30 17:08:16 <finway> Have we got duplicate coinbase txes to wipe non-BIP30-supports out?
587 2012-03-30 17:09:30 <luke-jr> finway: too expensive.
588 2012-03-30 17:10:34 <finway> heh
589 2012-03-30 17:14:48 <[Tycho]> :)
590 2012-03-30 17:15:27 <riush> [Tycho]: according to blockchain.info, deepbit just generated two empty blocks.. is that correct?
591 2012-03-30 17:17:02 <finway> lol, Donate@Home is generating bitcoins ?
592 2012-03-30 17:17:13 <finway> Oh, Donate@Home
593 2012-03-30 17:17:38 <[Tycho]> riush: use this: http://blockorigin.pfoe.be/blocklist.php
594 2012-03-30 17:18:25 <[Tycho]> May be its Deepbit and may be it's MM relaying her blocks via my external nodes.
595 2012-03-30 17:19:07 <riush> ah, i see. thanks
596 2012-03-30 17:19:38 <[Tycho]> Technically we can create empty blocks if round is shorter than 2 minutes.
597 2012-03-30 17:20:20 <etotheipi_> how is that two minutes measured?
598 2012-03-30 17:20:33 <luke-jr> etotheipi_: longpoll responses get empty blocks
599 2012-03-30 17:20:51 <luke-jr> whenever those miners fetch new work, they get full ones
600 2012-03-30 17:21:00 <etotheipi_> it's not a validation rule, just a "tendency" built into the nodes?
601 2012-03-30 17:21:01 <luke-jr> since work expires in 2 minutes, that's the max
602 2012-03-30 17:21:10 <luke-jr> etotheipi_: ?
603 2012-03-30 17:21:24 <luke-jr> sure
604 2012-03-30 17:21:50 <luke-jr> etotheipi_: Eloipool, at least, will begin sending longpoll works before it's finished calculating the new transaction merkle tree
605 2012-03-30 17:22:25 <etotheipi_> luke-jr, gotcha
606 2012-03-30 17:22:26 <luke-jr> though, it also sends a second longpoll when it's done with that
607 2012-03-30 17:29:49 finway has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
608 2012-03-30 17:33:53 p0s has joined
609 2012-03-30 17:34:05 <etotheipi_> could someone please send me some testnet coins?  I somehow don't have any!  n4jEBj2YxBwyFbwYWhHmbjXXN3ETNwr47T
610 2012-03-30 17:34:17 <etotheipi_> testing sweeping functions, etc, is difficult without coins
611 2012-03-30 17:36:09 bitcoin has joined
612 2012-03-30 17:36:11 <bitcoin> Receive coins>Show QR code>Request Payment... what does Request Payment do?
613 2012-03-30 17:36:49 <luke-jr> etotheipi_: send 10 bTBC
614 2012-03-30 17:37:21 <etotheipi_> I don't want bTBC... :)
615 2012-03-30 17:37:35 <luke-jr> sent 10 ᵇTBC*
616 2012-03-30 17:37:50 <luke-jr> TN*
617 2012-03-30 17:38:15 <etotheipi_> well, thanks Luke
618 2012-03-30 17:38:34 <bitcoin> bong bitcoin
619 2012-03-30 17:39:27 <luke-jr> np
620 2012-03-30 17:41:14 Blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
621 2012-03-30 17:48:52 Blitzboom has joined
622 2012-03-30 17:48:52 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
623 2012-03-30 17:48:52 Blitzboom has joined
624 2012-03-30 17:54:21 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
625 2012-03-30 18:09:01 comboy has joined
626 2012-03-30 18:12:35 <lh77> ;;ticker
627 2012-03-30 18:12:35 <gribble> Best bid: 4.76333, Best ask: 4.76334, Bid-ask spread: 1.00000000005e-05, Last trade: 4.77, 24 hour volume: 33966, 24 hour low: 4.71699, 24 hour high: 4.83
628 2012-03-30 18:13:50 dvide has quit ()
629 2012-03-30 18:20:37 paraipan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
630 2012-03-30 18:21:02 <Diablo-D3> up vote: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3777335
631 2012-03-30 18:21:58 PK_ has joined
632 2012-03-30 18:22:31 PK_ is now known as PK
633 2012-03-30 18:23:46 paraipan has joined
634 2012-03-30 18:25:02 paraipan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
635 2012-03-30 18:27:44 <gjs278> ati drivers 12.3 makes every single font in my gtk apps one size too big
636 2012-03-30 18:27:53 <gjs278> I revert to 12.2 and everything is back to normal
637 2012-03-30 18:29:35 paraipan has joined
638 2012-03-30 18:30:08 smoothie has quit (Quit: changing servers)
639 2012-03-30 18:30:46 gavinandresen has joined
640 2012-03-30 18:31:22 smoothie has joined
641 2012-03-30 18:32:07 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Quit: changing servers)
642 2012-03-30 18:32:41 phantomfakeBNC has joined
643 2012-03-30 18:32:56 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
644 2012-03-30 18:33:43 phantomfakeBNC has joined
645 2012-03-30 18:33:51 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
646 2012-03-30 18:34:28 phantomfakeBNC has joined
647 2012-03-30 18:35:02 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
648 2012-03-30 18:35:37 phantomfakeBNC has joined
649 2012-03-30 18:36:15 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
650 2012-03-30 18:37:12 phantomfakeBNC has joined
651 2012-03-30 18:37:24 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
652 2012-03-30 18:38:06 phantomfakeBNC has joined
653 2012-03-30 18:38:14 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
654 2012-03-30 18:39:20 phantomfakeBNC has joined
655 2012-03-30 18:39:29 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I thought it was build errors, but meh...anyway dont bother backporting if you cant figure out why its necessary imo
656 2012-03-30 18:39:53 <BlueMatt> if it doesnt build for some people, it doesnt build...they can come ask why not
657 2012-03-30 18:39:55 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
658 2012-03-30 18:40:45 phantomfakeBNC has joined
659 2012-03-30 18:40:56 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
660 2012-03-30 18:46:56 phantomfakeBNC has joined
661 2012-03-30 18:47:13 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
662 2012-03-30 18:47:59 phantomfakeBNC has joined
663 2012-03-30 18:48:18 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
664 2012-03-30 19:12:56 vigilyn has joined
665 2012-03-30 19:14:13 smoothie has quit (Quit: changing servers)
666 2012-03-30 19:14:47 smoothie has joined
667 2012-03-30 19:18:55 dvide has joined
668 2012-03-30 19:22:11 terry is now known as BruceFagner
669 2012-03-30 19:28:47 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
670 2012-03-30 19:39:09 gjs278 has joined
671 2012-03-30 19:43:58 occulta has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
672 2012-03-30 19:49:30 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: If you can't laugh at yourself, make fun of other people.)
673 2012-03-30 19:53:57 osmosis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
674 2012-03-30 19:57:48 torsthaldo has joined
675 2012-03-30 19:59:09 Cablesaurus has joined
676 2012-03-30 19:59:09 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
677 2012-03-30 19:59:09 Cablesaurus has joined
678 2012-03-30 20:00:45 occulta has joined
679 2012-03-30 20:05:53 Clipse has quit (Quit: Clipse)
680 2012-03-30 20:09:02 denisx has joined
681 2012-03-30 20:12:25 ovidiusoft has joined
682 2012-03-30 20:16:14 JRWR has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
683 2012-03-30 20:16:40 JRWR has joined
684 2012-03-30 20:17:26 cande has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
685 2012-03-30 20:18:26 Scully has left ("Le Out")
686 2012-03-30 20:34:04 h4ckm3 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
687 2012-03-30 20:34:52 h4ckm3 has joined
688 2012-03-30 20:42:47 JRWR has quit (Quit: "If the dinosaurs had a space program, they'd still be here." - Ron Garan)
689 2012-03-30 20:44:41 h4ckm3 has quit (Quit: changing servers)
690 2012-03-30 20:48:39 h4ckm3 has joined
691 2012-03-30 20:50:40 ThomasV has joined
692 2012-03-30 20:53:36 phantomfakeBNC has joined
693 2012-03-30 20:53:51 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
694 2012-03-30 20:54:47 phantomfakeBNC has joined
695 2012-03-30 20:55:41 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
696 2012-03-30 20:55:59 molecular has joined
697 2012-03-30 20:56:18 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
698 2012-03-30 20:57:22 yellowhat has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
699 2012-03-30 20:58:09 phantomfakeBNC has joined
700 2012-03-30 20:58:17 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
701 2012-03-30 20:58:57 phantomfakeBNC has joined
702 2012-03-30 21:01:47 graingert has joined
703 2012-03-30 21:02:07 <graingert> BlueMatt: now that 6 wallets are incompatible with 5 wallets
704 2012-03-30 21:02:17 <graingert> can you upgrade the version of bdb?
705 2012-03-30 21:02:50 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Client Quit)
706 2012-03-30 21:03:45 phantomfakeBNC has joined
707 2012-03-30 21:04:31 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
708 2012-03-30 21:04:56 bitcoin is now known as TuxBlackEdo
709 2012-03-30 21:06:15 phantomfakeBNC has joined
710 2012-03-30 21:07:34 h4ckm3 has quit (Quit: changing servers)
711 2012-03-30 21:08:08 h4ckm3 has joined
712 2012-03-30 21:08:26 Slix` has joined
713 2012-03-30 21:10:14 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Client Quit)
714 2012-03-30 21:11:14 phantomfakeBNC has joined
715 2012-03-30 21:11:31 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
716 2012-03-30 21:11:53 Turingi has quit (Quit: Leaving)
717 2012-03-30 21:12:38 phantomfakeBNC has joined
718 2012-03-30 21:12:53 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
719 2012-03-30 21:13:32 phantomfakeBNC has joined
720 2012-03-30 21:14:37 Zarutian has joined
721 2012-03-30 21:14:56 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
722 2012-03-30 21:15:43 [7] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
723 2012-03-30 21:15:48 phantomfakeBNC has joined
724 2012-03-30 21:16:00 TheSeven has joined
725 2012-03-30 21:16:01 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
726 2012-03-30 21:17:08 phantomfakeBNC has joined
727 2012-03-30 21:17:15 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
728 2012-03-30 21:17:56 phantomfakeBNC has joined
729 2012-03-30 21:18:03 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
730 2012-03-30 21:18:49 nanotube is now known as bitcoin
731 2012-03-30 21:18:56 bitcoin is now known as nanotube
732 2012-03-30 21:19:51 Touko has joined
733 2012-03-30 21:20:00 smoothie has quit (Quit: changing servers)
734 2012-03-30 21:20:03 phantomfakeBNC has joined
735 2012-03-30 21:20:10 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
736 2012-03-30 21:20:13 <Touko> Whats the most complete mining pool software atm?
737 2012-03-30 21:20:50 phantomfakeBNC has joined
738 2012-03-30 21:21:05 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
739 2012-03-30 21:21:24 smoothie has joined
740 2012-03-30 21:21:59 <Touko> Damn it's quite in here.
741 2012-03-30 21:22:05 user has joined
742 2012-03-30 21:22:41 <Diablo-D3> Touko: everyone uses p2pool anyhow.
743 2012-03-30 21:22:56 <Touko> Still
744 2012-03-30 21:23:02 <Touko> its not the most efficient
745 2012-03-30 21:23:05 h4ckm3 has quit (Quit: changing servers)
746 2012-03-30 21:23:55 smoothie has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
747 2012-03-30 21:24:03 h4ckm3 has joined
748 2012-03-30 21:27:52 h4ckm3 has quit (Client Quit)
749 2012-03-30 21:28:18 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
750 2012-03-30 21:28:20 h4ckm3 has joined
751 2012-03-30 21:30:20 barmstrong has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
752 2012-03-30 21:32:16 barmstrong has joined
753 2012-03-30 21:33:19 phantomfakeBNC has joined
754 2012-03-30 21:33:26 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
755 2012-03-30 21:34:05 phantomfakeBNC has joined
756 2012-03-30 21:34:18 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
757 2012-03-30 21:34:39 Clipse has joined
758 2012-03-30 21:34:40 rebroad has joined
759 2012-03-30 21:34:51 rebroad has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
760 2012-03-30 21:35:07 phantomfakeBNC has joined
761 2012-03-30 21:35:19 rebroad has joined
762 2012-03-30 21:35:33 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
763 2012-03-30 21:35:38 rebroad has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
764 2012-03-30 21:36:07 rebroad has joined
765 2012-03-30 21:36:12 rebroad has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
766 2012-03-30 21:36:27 <BlueMatt> <graingert> BlueMatt: now that 6 wallets are incompatible with 5 wallets <-- they are?
767 2012-03-30 21:36:31 phantomfakeBNC has joined
768 2012-03-30 21:36:36 rebroad has joined
769 2012-03-30 21:36:37 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
770 2012-03-30 21:36:41 rebroad has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
771 2012-03-30 21:37:13 rebroad has joined
772 2012-03-30 21:37:25 rebroad has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
773 2012-03-30 21:37:28 phantomfakeBNC has joined
774 2012-03-30 21:37:32 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
775 2012-03-30 21:37:34 <graingert> BlueMatt: yes when using the compressed keys
776 2012-03-30 21:37:51 datagutt has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
777 2012-03-30 21:37:53 rebroad has joined
778 2012-03-30 21:38:10 <BlueMatt> yea but they arent automaticall upgraded unless you make a new one
779 2012-03-30 21:38:21 phantomfakeBNC has joined
780 2012-03-30 21:38:21 rebroad has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
781 2012-03-30 21:38:43 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
782 2012-03-30 21:38:47 rebroad has joined
783 2012-03-30 21:39:49 rebroad has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
784 2012-03-30 21:40:01 phantomfakeBNC has joined
785 2012-03-30 21:40:05 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
786 2012-03-30 21:40:14 rebroad has joined
787 2012-03-30 21:40:38 phantomfakeBNC has joined
788 2012-03-30 21:40:43 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
789 2012-03-30 21:41:19 rebroad has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
790 2012-03-30 21:41:41 rebroad has joined
791 2012-03-30 21:42:20 phantomfakeBNC has joined
792 2012-03-30 21:42:23 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
793 2012-03-30 21:42:53 phantomfakeBNC has joined
794 2012-03-30 21:42:59 phantomfakeBNC has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
795 2012-03-30 21:43:42 phantomfakeBNC has joined
796 2012-03-30 21:44:03 <graingert> BlueMatt: I still think it might be the time to change wallet type
797 2012-03-30 21:44:12 <graingert> ie a major version upgrade
798 2012-03-30 21:45:20 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
799 2012-03-30 21:48:54 occulta has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
800 2012-03-30 21:50:03 pickett has joined
801 2012-03-30 21:50:25 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
802 2012-03-30 21:54:03 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
803 2012-03-30 21:54:21 Touko has left ()
804 2012-03-30 21:54:44 <coingenuity> jgarzik: next time you're in my hood i'll take you out for one :)
805 2012-03-30 21:56:34 lh77 has quit ()
806 2012-03-30 21:57:07 h4ckm3 has quit (Quit: changing servers)
807 2012-03-30 21:57:51 h4ckm3 has joined
808 2012-03-30 21:57:53 pusle has quit ()
809 2012-03-30 21:59:59 pickett has joined
810 2012-03-30 22:03:53 h4ckm3 has quit (Quit: changing servers)
811 2012-03-30 22:05:13 h4ckm3 has joined
812 2012-03-30 22:11:21 h4ckm3 has quit (Quit: changing servers)
813 2012-03-30 22:11:56 h4ckm3 has joined
814 2012-03-30 22:13:12 ThomasV has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
815 2012-03-30 22:14:39 graingert has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
816 2012-03-30 22:17:06 ThomasV has joined
817 2012-03-30 22:18:39 graingert has joined
818 2012-03-30 22:24:38 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
819 2012-03-30 22:25:36 ovidiusoft has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
820 2012-03-30 22:35:01 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
821 2012-03-30 22:35:34 h4ckm3 has quit (Quit: changing servers)
822 2012-03-30 22:36:14 h4ckm3 has joined
823 2012-03-30 22:38:18 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
824 2012-03-30 22:38:33 denisx has joined
825 2012-03-30 22:40:59 bitcoinbulletin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
826 2012-03-30 22:51:22 bitcoinbulletin has joined
827 2012-03-30 22:58:54 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
828 2012-03-30 23:00:35 <sipa> graingert: bitcoin 0.6 will *not* automatically upgrade your wallet
829 2012-03-30 23:00:52 <sipa> it will create new wallets that are incompatible with 0.5 though
830 2012-03-30 23:01:16 <graingert> sipa: hmm
831 2012-03-30 23:01:53 <graingert> sipa: in that case we will have to wait for there to be a sensible flat file format
832 2012-03-30 23:02:11 <graingert> that is exported to from the db
833 2012-03-30 23:02:26 <sipa> graingert: i've been working on a different wallet format though, but a binary one (that is however append-only during normal operation)
834 2012-03-30 23:02:58 <graingert> why not something like JSON that is read into an intermediary ?
835 2012-03-30 23:03:09 <sipa> how do you update it?
836 2012-03-30 23:03:32 <sipa> (i'm a large proponent of a json-based wallet interchange format, but not for the wallet itself)
837 2012-03-30 23:03:41 dwon has joined
838 2012-03-30 23:04:29 <sipa> graingert: there's also -upgradewallet by the way
839 2012-03-30 23:04:34 <graingert> sipa: you load the json into the db, then update the db then serialize the entire db to json and dump
840 2012-03-30 23:04:45 <graingert> on shutdown
841 2012-03-30 23:05:06 <sipa> that's possible, if it's loaded into memory entirely
842 2012-03-30 23:05:17 <sipa> (which it currently is indeed)
843 2012-03-30 23:05:21 <graingert> no you load the json into a db
844 2012-03-30 23:05:31 * sipa pukes
845 2012-03-30 23:05:33 <graingert> could be sqlite could in memory could be bdbd
846 2012-03-30 23:05:40 <gmaxwell> ugh
847 2012-03-30 23:05:40 <graingert> then dump afterwards
848 2012-03-30 23:06:27 <graingert> the db is a temporary file
849 2012-03-30 23:06:36 <graingert> the user never knows about it
850 2012-03-30 23:07:47 <graingert> eg how XML works, you take the XML put it into a DOM in memory, manipulate it and write back to disk
851 2012-03-30 23:08:09 <splatster> So using newer addys created by 0.6 will result in smaller TX size?
852 2012-03-30 23:08:35 <sipa> splatster: indeed, the spending of such coins is smaller
853 2012-03-30 23:08:43 <sipa> 32 per input
854 2012-03-30 23:08:45 <gmaxwell> Yes, spending funds sent to 0.6 wallets results in smaller txn.
855 2012-03-30 23:08:50 <sipa> bytes
856 2012-03-30 23:09:15 <sipa> getinfo tells you the wallet format, by the way
857 2012-03-30 23:09:26 <splatster> Then how could I have all my addys upgraded to the compressed format?
858 2012-03-30 23:09:35 <sipa> splatster: impossible
859 2012-03-30 23:10:04 <splatster> Impossible? Not even manually?
860 2012-03-30 23:10:05 <sipa> it only works for new addresses
861 2012-03-30 23:10:20 <sipa> no, changing the pubkey means changing the address
862 2012-03-30 23:10:25 <gmaxwell> I suppose you could at least upgrade the wallet and then getnewaddress until the pool is empty.
863 2012-03-30 23:11:15 <sipa> but since you have to keep the old address around anyway, converting is not better than just generating a new key
864 2012-03-30 23:11:29 <splatster> Can someone explain how this new format works?
865 2012-03-30 23:11:48 <splatster> Or at least how it is different?
866 2012-03-30 23:11:50 <sipa> old format: 0x04 + x + y
867 2012-03-30 23:11:59 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: When the chips are down, well, the buffalo is empty)
868 2012-03-30 23:12:11 welterde has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
869 2012-03-30 23:12:16 <sipa> new format: 0x02 + x (if y is even)
870 2012-03-30 23:12:32 <sipa> new format: 0x03 + x (if y is odd)
871 2012-03-30 23:13:07 <sipa> that information (x and the oddness of y) is enough to reconstruct y
872 2012-03-30 23:13:44 <splatster> Can the newer addresses be distinguished from the old ones?
873 2012-03-30 23:13:56 <sipa> addresses, no
874 2012-03-30 23:14:01 <sipa> public keys, yes
875 2012-03-30 23:15:35 SphericalCow has joined
876 2012-03-30 23:17:33 jandd_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
877 2012-03-30 23:18:13 da2ce7 has joined
878 2012-03-30 23:18:25 jandd has joined
879 2012-03-30 23:25:11 smoothie has joined
880 2012-03-30 23:27:33 <sipa> splatster: that's how it works: old nodes don't need to and cannot know they are sending to an address backed by a compressed public key
881 2012-03-30 23:27:56 <sipa> and old nodes consider their signatures valid
882 2012-03-30 23:28:13 <splatster> Ok, I think I get it now, thanks.
883 2012-03-30 23:33:30 <luke-jr> sipa: not entirely.
884 2012-03-30 23:33:40 <luke-jr> there was that verifymessage issue that deserves mention :p
885 2012-03-30 23:34:09 <sipa> true, but that has nothing to do with sending to an address
886 2012-03-30 23:37:30 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
887 2012-03-30 23:40:54 Cablesaurus has joined
888 2012-03-30 23:40:54 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
889 2012-03-30 23:40:54 Cablesaurus has joined
890 2012-03-30 23:47:37 osmosis has joined
891 2012-03-30 23:47:42 erle- has joined
892 2012-03-30 23:48:06 SphericalCow has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
893 2012-03-30 23:51:59 supson has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
894 2012-03-30 23:59:56 ThiagoCMC has left ("Leaving")