1 2012-04-01 00:00:40 <genjix> 2
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14 2012-04-01 00:12:42 <joehallofame> I really need some help. Whenever I try to send coins, it crashes and I just put about 30 in my wallet.
15 2012-04-01 00:13:14 <gmaxwell> joehallofame: what version of the software? what operating system?
16 2012-04-01 00:13:17 vigilyn has joined
17 2012-04-01 00:13:17 <TuxBlackEdo> try starting bitcoin with -rescan
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19 2012-04-01 00:13:27 <[Tycho]> Yay, fireworks !
20 2012-04-01 00:13:30 <gmaxwell> joehallofame: what exactly do you mean by crashes? does it lock up or go away completely?
21 2012-04-01 00:13:47 <joehallofame> I uploaded 6.0 but it still does it. If I type an incorrect password it says so, but if I type the correct one it crashes.
22 2012-04-01 00:14:05 <joehallofame> Goes completely away
23 2012-04-01 00:14:09 <TuxBlackEdo> -rescan
24 2012-04-01 00:14:35 <gmaxwell> oh hey, that bug
25 2012-04-01 00:14:57 <joehallofame> I hadn't used it for a while and typed the quite a few incorrect passwords. could that be it?
26 2012-04-01 00:14:59 <gmaxwell> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/955
27 2012-04-01 00:15:22 <BlueMatt> this crap again...?
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30 2012-04-01 00:15:55 <joehallofame> thanks gmaxwell, Ill read this and try it.
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37 2012-04-01 00:25:44 <Joric> can't reproduce
38 2012-04-01 00:28:13 t7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
39 2012-04-01 00:32:06 <sipa> BlueMatt: ah, i'm back
40 2012-04-01 00:32:17 <BlueMatt> hi sipa
41 2012-04-01 00:34:09 elkingrey has quit (Quit: Leaving)
42 2012-04-01 00:34:11 <genjix> sipa: you missed the passing.
43 2012-04-01 00:34:16 <Joric> why you're shutting down the client after encryption
44 2012-04-01 00:34:22 <genjix> the bitcoin network shut down.
45 2012-04-01 00:34:23 <sipa> genjix: wow, indeed!
46 2012-04-01 00:34:31 <sipa> wonderful
47 2012-04-01 00:34:43 <genjix> we moved onto facebook credits now. they're the future.
48 2012-04-01 00:34:50 <Joric> genjix, was it feds?
49 2012-04-01 00:35:07 <Joric> and who's the Mistery Miner
50 2012-04-01 00:35:25 <genjix> the mystery miner is a practioner of the venusian arts
51 2012-04-01 00:35:26 Lexa has joined
52 2012-04-01 00:35:48 <genjix> he prefers younger women though
53 2012-04-01 00:38:08 Sedra has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
54 2012-04-01 00:40:29 <da2ce7> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74917.0
55 2012-04-01 00:41:09 <da2ce7> Post about adding Firstbit's support to the Satoshi Bitcoin client.
56 2012-04-01 00:41:55 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: tragidy of the commonsbit you mean?
57 2012-04-01 00:42:14 <gmaxwell> Firstbit is horrific trash, which has added megabytes of useless bloat to the blockchain.
58 2012-04-01 00:43:05 Sedra has joined
59 2012-04-01 00:43:15 <gmaxwell> Some geniuses went and firstbit registered thousands and thousands of names from /usr/dict/words â so all of the short good ones are taken by them now, and worse, if you use an address which has one of those as a prefix your funds may be misdirected.
60 2012-04-01 00:43:46 <sipa> firstbit encourages static addresses, and blockchain bloat
61 2012-04-01 00:44:01 <Joric> why bloat?
62 2012-04-01 00:44:09 <joehallofame> gmaxwell? now that Ive read that I am even more depressed. is there anyway to get my coins outta my wallet now? It seems like that guy tried everything. I don't know how to do any of that.
63 2012-04-01 00:44:24 <da2ce7> well it is usefull for not typing out an entire bitcoin addrsss.
64 2012-04-01 00:44:29 <da2ce7> *addresss.
65 2012-04-01 00:44:37 <da2ce7> and making small qr codes.
66 2012-04-01 00:44:43 <Joric> what firstbit has added to the blockchain i don't get it
67 2012-04-01 00:44:44 <gmaxwell> e.g. your get 1Bobby72 but 1Bobby[Nz038].. is someone elses firstbits.. and someone sends coins to you but uses 1Bobby not realizing the 72 matters and they go to one of the dictionary spammers.
68 2012-04-01 00:45:08 <gmaxwell> Joric: many megabytes of people 'preregistering' names.
69 2012-04-01 00:45:29 <gmaxwell> joehallofame: It's very likely recoverable, but perhaps not trivally. First. Do you have any backups of your wallet?
70 2012-04-01 00:45:38 <joehallofame> nope
71 2012-04-01 00:45:43 <Joric> vanitygen should be much, much worse then
72 2012-04-01 00:46:15 <sipa> da2ce7: it is wrong that people are typing in random addresses at all
73 2012-04-01 00:46:15 <gmaxwell> Joric: ... no. Er, what you're saying makes no sense to me, perhaps I misunderstand you.
74 2012-04-01 00:46:33 <sipa> it should be URLs, or email-addresses, or clicking on a link, or downloading a file
75 2012-04-01 00:46:45 <da2ce7> well even with the massive ammounts of spam, a first-bits address is much more happly typed by hand than a full bitcoin address.
76 2012-04-01 00:46:55 <sipa> it should not be any random, and certainly not static, string of characters
77 2012-04-01 00:47:06 <sipa> not short or long
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79 2012-04-01 00:47:18 <joehallofame> I created a backup after, so I'm not sure that would help. And I am not sure that I did it right.
80 2012-04-01 00:47:50 <gmaxwell> joehallofame: it's good you made a backup, though it's probably not that helpful if it's after the problem.
81 2012-04-01 00:47:54 lunchtime is now known as luncht1me
82 2012-04-01 00:48:02 <sipa> joehallofame: there are wallet recovery tools
83 2012-04-01 00:49:51 <joehallofame> sipa: where can I find them. I read https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/955 are those what he used?
84 2012-04-01 00:49:59 <sipa> Joric: people generated thousands of addresses whose firstbits were short words, and sent microtransactions to them
85 2012-04-01 00:50:18 <sipa> Joric: unprunable, unusable, simply for the sake of having them registered
86 2012-04-01 00:52:18 <gmaxwell> ...Making both firstbits less useful: all the good short ones taken, more risk of misdirection on long ones with their prefixes registered, and sticking everyone else with more data to carry around.
87 2012-04-01 00:53:31 <Joric> sipa, doesn't that work for vanitygen as well
88 2012-04-01 00:53:45 <sipa> Joric: ?
89 2012-04-01 00:53:50 <gmaxwell> No.
90 2012-04-01 00:54:04 <gmaxwell> .... what do you think vanitygen does?
91 2012-04-01 00:54:11 <sipa> Joric: i have no problem with people generating thousands of addresses
92 2012-04-01 00:54:14 <sipa> not even billions
93 2012-04-01 00:54:21 <Joric> 'people generating thousands of addresses simply for sake of having them registered'
94 2012-04-01 00:54:23 <sipa> i have a problem with them creating transactions
95 2012-04-01 00:54:41 <gmaxwell> Joric: there is no "registration" with anything but firstbits.
96 2012-04-01 00:54:55 <sipa> simply for the sake of those addresses being present in the block chain first
97 2012-04-01 00:55:39 <Joric> first thing i've done with a vanity address i send 0.01 btc to it
98 2012-04-01 00:55:51 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: If your not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space)
99 2012-04-01 00:56:01 <gmaxwell> ... Why?????????????????????????????????????????????
100 2012-04-01 00:56:09 <gmaxwell> That serves absolutely zero purpose.
101 2012-04-01 00:56:18 <joehallofame> gmaxwell: About my problem on that link:: gavinandresen commented 5 days ago Consensus is this is a "we don't know how it happened but somehow the bits on your disk are not what they should be" problem that we can't reproduce. I moved the priority from high to medium, and removed the 0.6.0 milestone from this issue, but I think the only fix for problems like these will be a much better scheme for backing up and restoring
102 2012-04-01 00:56:26 <Joric> to get to the blockexplorer
103 2012-04-01 00:57:02 <gmaxwell> Joric: for what purpose? In any case, thats a bit of foolishness that most people don't engage in fortunately.
104 2012-04-01 00:57:21 <joehallofame> I guess what Im asking is am I screwed?
105 2012-04-01 00:57:26 <sipa> Joric: all this says to me is that people want a way to register addresses somewhere; fine, but don't use the block chain for having BBE function as that registration
106 2012-04-01 00:57:32 <Joric> i don't get why firstbits is any better than blockexplorer
107 2012-04-01 00:57:41 <sipa> Joric: ?
108 2012-04-01 00:58:19 <sipa> there's no difference; both are just using the block chain to register an address as something more manageable
109 2012-04-01 00:58:31 <gmaxwell> sipa: blockexplorer doesn't do that
110 2012-04-01 00:58:34 <gmaxwell> (AFAIK)
111 2012-04-01 00:58:43 <Joric> i mean confirming that the address is real
112 2012-04-01 00:58:44 <sipa> you can search for a prefix of an address
113 2012-04-01 00:58:47 <gmaxwell> The search doesn't return on address subtrings.
114 2012-04-01 00:59:10 <Joric> it does, for 6-char prefixes
115 2012-04-01 00:59:15 <gmaxwell> Joric: You can tell if an address is real by checking the checksum.
116 2012-04-01 01:00:01 <Joric> i just got lucky i didn't give a fuck about firstbits
117 2012-04-01 01:02:40 <MC1984> any p2sh txn yet?
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119 2012-04-01 01:02:59 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sipa opened pull request 1021 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1021>
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121 2012-04-01 01:06:25 <gmaxwell> sipa: hm. relaying v6 addresses when you don't speak it yourself sort of invites people to announce the whole ipv6 routable internet.
122 2012-04-01 01:06:50 <joehallofame> Im sorry for being impolite and asking again, but I tried some passwords and now when I use the right one my wallet closes out. Did I just lose a lot of money, or do I wait for another new version to come out (just uploaded 6.0 and my problems came with it) Should I try a wallet recovery like sipa suggested? It seemed like the link gmax sent someone tried that and he gave. Or hopefully it's on a timer thing and I can sen
123 2012-04-01 01:07:52 <gmaxwell> joehallofame: what version were you running before?
124 2012-04-01 01:07:58 <sipa> gmaxwell: i know - but the alternative is getting a completely separate ipv6 network
125 2012-04-01 01:08:08 <joehallofame> 5.0
126 2012-04-01 01:08:10 <sipa> which will at least initially have difficulty finding pears
127 2012-04-01 01:08:52 <joehallofame> could I try 5.3.1
128 2012-04-01 01:09:52 <sipa> gmaxwell: i was wondering about having a reduced chance (like 5%) of accepting/relaying an ipv6 address if you don't support it yourself
129 2012-04-01 01:10:04 <sipa> or a rate limit, maybe
130 2012-04-01 01:10:11 <gmaxwell> erp. Where is the 0.5.4 download?
131 2012-04-01 01:10:21 <sipa> gmaxwell: 0.5.4 is not released afaik
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135 2012-04-01 01:10:40 <gmaxwell> Oh I thought luke finished it, ah.
136 2012-04-01 01:11:05 <BlueMatt> he wanted more testing of the bip16 backport, as it was pretty far from 1:1 of the original commit
137 2012-04-01 01:11:11 <gmaxwell> joehallofame: yes, I'd recommend trying that (make sure to shut down cleanly and make another backup copy of your wallet.dat file before doing anything else)
138 2012-04-01 01:11:27 <gmaxwell> joehallofame: please report back how it goes.
139 2012-04-01 01:11:44 <joehallofame> thank you sir.
140 2012-04-01 01:11:47 <joehallofame> I will
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142 2012-04-01 01:27:11 <sipa> gmaxwell: what would you suggest for ipv6 relaying?
143 2012-04-01 01:33:30 MrJiffy has joined
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145 2012-04-01 01:40:31 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: lack of testing
146 2012-04-01 01:41:11 <luke-jr> sipa: I like the idea of relaying all the time. Maybe limit IPv4-only nodes to relay only N% IPv6 tho?
147 2012-04-01 01:44:28 JRWR has joined
148 2012-04-01 01:44:31 <gmaxwell> sipa: I guess it should prioritize relaying nodes it has connected to.. and just limit the number of v6 addresses it relays.
149 2012-04-01 01:49:16 Snapman is now known as Snapman[afkers]
150 2012-04-01 01:49:35 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: TheBlueMatt reopened pull request 771 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/771>
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154 2012-04-01 01:54:44 <joehallofame> gmaxwell: he dude im back with no avail I downloaded the 5.3.1 version and it is still crashing and giving a runtime message.
155 2012-04-01 01:55:31 da2ce7 has joined
156 2012-04-01 01:56:35 <joehallofame> In case anyone else can help, I typed in the wrong passwords, and now when I type in the wrong one, my wallet crashes, and I just put a crapload of money in there and need to study linear algebra. Am I just screwed, is there any way to fix it.?
157 2012-04-01 01:58:02 <joehallofame> Or should I just say hey I guess I wont use this wallet anymore and study for my test. Does anyone know if its on a timer or anything, or will it always crash from now on?
158 2012-04-01 01:58:13 <BlueMatt> backup your datadir as it is now; do linear algebra, worry about your coins later
159 2012-04-01 01:58:45 <BlueMatt> the files will be in the same state when you are done studying and then you can work the issue out
160 2012-04-01 01:58:54 Snapman[afkers] is now known as Snapman
161 2012-04-01 01:58:56 <joehallofame> well put. Damn Gauss-Jordian Elimination.
162 2012-04-01 01:59:39 <joehallofame> Im going to still leave this up for a while, just in case SuperMan shows up.
163 2012-04-01 01:59:42 Snapman is now known as Snapman[afkers]
164 2012-04-01 02:00:09 Snapman[afkers] is now known as Snapman
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168 2012-04-01 02:09:17 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: when GitHub screws up, it's best not to try to fix it FWIW
169 2012-04-01 02:09:27 <BlueMatt> yea, Im not gonna bother
170 2012-04-01 02:09:30 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: last time I tried, it closed the pull irrevokably
171 2012-04-01 02:12:08 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: got a link for eulogy yet?
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184 2012-04-01 03:26:45 <luke-jr> someone who doesn't run a pool needs to do the honours :P
185 2012-04-01 03:26:53 <luke-jr> of breaking non-BIP16 pools
186 2012-04-01 03:34:50 <forsetifox> Will they disappear from the pie chart?
187 2012-04-01 03:36:36 <splatster> Tonight will be a fun night to see which pools neglected to support BIP16.
188 2012-04-01 03:37:21 <splatster> luke-jr: Could this cause a fork?
189 2012-04-01 03:37:24 <Graet> ars just got a block
190 2012-04-01 03:37:31 <luke-jr> splatster: it will.
191 2012-04-01 03:37:31 <gmaxwell> splatster: define fork?
192 2012-04-01 03:37:53 <Graet> not on blockchain.info
193 2012-04-01 03:38:18 <gmaxwell> splatster: So normally I'd reserver 'fork' for an irreconcilable difference. In this case, it will just cause non-bip16 nodes to get orphaned
194 2012-04-01 03:38:29 <gmaxwell> (but they won't build an alternative chain of any length)
195 2012-04-01 03:38:35 Hasbro has joined
196 2012-04-01 03:38:39 <splatster> i.e. One pool starts a split in the chain.
197 2012-04-01 03:39:01 <gmaxwell> splatster: well those kind of forks happen every day.
198 2012-04-01 03:39:54 <gmaxwell> Graet: I wonder if blockchain.info runs bip16 nodes and thus aren't displaying bip16 invalid blocks.
199 2012-04-01 03:40:30 <Graet> unsure gmaxwell , just noticed ars announced a block and looked at blockchain.info
200 2012-04-01 03:40:46 <gmaxwell> any idea what height that block is?
201 2012-04-01 03:40:51 <splatster> Shouldn't BIP16 support already be active? (I don't know what time zone bitcoind uses)
202 2012-04-01 03:41:10 <MC1984> unix
203 2012-04-01 03:41:11 <gmaxwell> splatster: yes. I don't understand why you ask?
204 2012-04-01 03:41:25 <Graet> <ArsBlock> >>>> New Block Number 173818 is Ars!
205 2012-04-01 03:41:25 <forsetifox> 173818
206 2012-04-01 03:41:32 <splatster> http://blockchain.info/block-index/201844/00000000000008a5097526239afca1d59e6e112aca135ab7dd5189b5fe9f0696
207 2012-04-01 03:41:44 <Graet> hmm it is there, older than i thought
208 2012-04-01 03:42:24 <gmaxwell> hey, neat I have a node that is behind.
209 2012-04-01 03:42:36 <splatster> Where is the p2sh TX? (if I am to understand that there is such a TX in there)
210 2012-04-01 03:42:59 <gmaxwell> ah.
211 2012-04-01 03:43:08 <gmaxwell> splatster: huh?
212 2012-04-01 03:43:16 <splatster> ah nvm
213 2012-04-01 03:43:21 <gmaxwell> P2SH tx are completely compatible with old nodes.
214 2012-04-01 03:43:36 * splatster shuts up
215 2012-04-01 03:44:24 <gmaxwell> hm. I had a node crash.
216 2012-04-01 03:44:45 <gmaxwell> 04/01/12 01:43:19 trying connection 188.40.93.82:8333 lastseen=-342567.9hrs
217 2012-04-01 03:44:45 <gmaxwell> 04/01/12 01:43:24 connection timeout
218 2012-04-01 03:44:45 <gmaxwell> 04/01/12 01:43:35 received getdata for: tx fb49c134332ed11372d9
219 2012-04-01 03:45:48 <gmaxwell> oh nevermind.. ran out of space.
220 2012-04-01 03:46:16 <gmaxwell> 3.2gbytes of DB logs. sweet.
221 2012-04-01 03:48:04 ByteCoin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
222 2012-04-01 03:50:28 <gmaxwell> and it can't recover from that either.. pretty sweet.
223 2012-04-01 03:51:51 <luke-jr> so Ars's last was invalid or not?
224 2012-04-01 03:52:14 <forsetifox> It was a long block, I think?
225 2012-04-01 03:53:21 <[Tycho]> What 173694 is doing here ? https://blockchain.info/orphaned-blocks
226 2012-04-01 03:54:09 <TuxBlackEdo> who runs blockchain.info?
227 2012-04-01 03:54:23 <[Tycho]> puik
228 2012-04-01 03:55:06 <TuxBlackEdo> piuk
229 2012-04-01 03:55:19 <[Tycho]> Yes, something like that
230 2012-04-01 03:55:19 <luke-jr> puke
231 2012-04-01 03:55:40 <splatster> Look at the orphans at 170059 on that page
232 2012-04-01 03:56:21 <[Tycho]> Yes, it was first BIP16 show
233 2012-04-01 03:57:37 <splatster> Ah, so that set of orphans was caused by adoption, or lack thereof, of BIP16?
234 2012-04-01 03:57:51 <[Tycho]> Yes
235 2012-04-01 03:58:34 <MC1984> fuck 1700062 was 3 orphans at once
236 2012-04-01 03:58:50 <luke-jr> 1700060 looks suspicious
237 2012-04-01 03:59:06 <luke-jr> why is Donate@Home's a whole 5 days later?
238 2012-04-01 03:59:20 <splatster> Weird...
239 2012-04-01 03:59:31 <luke-jr> â¦wt
240 2012-04-01 03:59:32 <luke-jr> f
241 2012-04-01 03:59:37 <luke-jr> 170061â¦
242 2012-04-01 03:59:38 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: because it was stuck on a fork.
243 2012-04-01 03:59:45 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: how?
244 2012-04-01 04:00:05 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: old miners should accept the new blocks
245 2012-04-01 04:00:21 <gmaxwell> chain screwed up from running 0.6.0rc1 at the time of the early broken p2sh txn.
246 2012-04-01 04:00:27 <luke-jr> also, why did Donate@Home's 170061 build on EclipseMC's 170060, and vice-versa?
247 2012-04-01 04:00:52 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: there were nodes running old git code that switch on p2sh at the original date. They formed a fork.
248 2012-04-01 04:01:07 <gmaxwell> (and the p2sh enforcing side can't reorg onto the longer 'invalid' chain)
249 2012-04-01 04:01:15 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: yes, ok. but why would PoolA and PoolB build on competitors' forks?:
250 2012-04-01 04:01:41 <gmaxwell> I don't understand your confusion.
251 2012-04-01 04:02:03 <luke-jr> Donate@Home built on EclipseMC's fork, and EclipseMC built on Donate@Home's forkâ¦
252 2012-04-01 04:02:04 <gmaxwell> There was a fork created by nodes that enforced p2sh too early when someone mined an invalid p2sh txn (I assumed it was you, actually!)
253 2012-04-01 04:02:24 <luke-jr> no, that wasn't me
254 2012-04-01 04:02:39 <gmaxwell> oh, multiple nodes?
255 2012-04-01 04:02:52 <luke-jr> i c, maybe
256 2012-04-01 04:02:53 <splatster> 7 orphans between 170060, 170061, and 170062.
257 2012-04-01 04:02:56 <luke-jr> still a weird thing
258 2012-04-01 04:03:18 <gmaxwell> splatster: sure, it grew for a while.
259 2012-04-01 04:05:22 <k9quaint> clearly, it was a nefarious plot to take over the world
260 2012-04-01 04:05:25 <MC1984> wait so single orphan blocks happen quite regularly
261 2012-04-01 04:05:32 <gmaxwell> MC1984: sure.
262 2012-04-01 04:05:35 <luke-jr> yes
263 2012-04-01 04:05:39 <MC1984> isnt that bad
264 2012-04-01 04:05:40 <splatster> MC1984: yup
265 2012-04-01 04:05:44 <splatster> no
266 2012-04-01 04:05:46 <gmaxwell> it's about 1% of all blocks generated or so.
267 2012-04-01 04:06:23 <luke-jr> MC1984: the 10 minute avg was chosen to balance orphan rate with convenience
268 2012-04-01 04:06:31 <gmaxwell> MC1984: unless you've gone and invented faster than light communication while we were gabbing, there is no preventing of it.
269 2012-04-01 04:06:31 <MC1984> is it to do with block propagation times
270 2012-04-01 04:07:06 <MC1984> ok so if block time was cut to 5 mins, would orphans increase linerarly or more
271 2012-04-01 04:07:22 <gmaxwell> More.
272 2012-04-01 04:07:23 <MC1984> i think more?
273 2012-04-01 04:07:50 <MC1984> hm i wonder what the true optimal block time is
274 2012-04-01 04:08:04 <luke-jr> 10 mins :P
275 2012-04-01 04:08:15 <gmaxwell> Orphan rate is related to 1-e^(-1/block_time*propagation_delay).
276 2012-04-01 04:08:40 <MC1984> yeah didnt satoshi just decide on 10 mins though
277 2012-04-01 04:08:43 <luke-jr> or rather, de timtons (about 11 mins 15 secs)
278 2012-04-01 04:08:50 <MC1984> not like he ran simulations
279 2012-04-01 04:08:57 <gmaxwell> He almost certantly did.
280 2012-04-01 04:09:01 <gmaxwell> (run simulations)
281 2012-04-01 04:09:03 <MC1984> wat
282 2012-04-01 04:09:08 <luke-jr> MC1984: don't need to simulate when you can calculate
283 2012-04-01 04:09:15 <gmaxwell> Considering there is simulation code in the bitcoin paper for block race probabilities!
284 2012-04-01 04:09:27 <gmaxwell> (well, right)
285 2012-04-01 04:09:44 <luke-jr> heh, otoh sometimes simulation is actually easier too :p
286 2012-04-01 04:10:23 <MC1984> so 10 mins even really is mathematically optimal
287 2012-04-01 04:10:44 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: I like to solve things both via numerical methods/simulation and analytically, and then see if they agree. :)
288 2012-04-01 04:10:47 <luke-jr> I still think 11m15s would be better, but 10m is close enough <.<
289 2012-04-01 04:10:55 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: smart!
290 2012-04-01 04:12:07 <gmaxwell> MC1984: it's a tradeoff. There isn't really any single optimal value unless you first assume some preference for first confirmation speed vs orphaned blocks.
291 2012-04-01 04:13:10 <gmaxwell> and propation time will go up as bitcoin grows.
292 2012-04-01 04:13:47 <gmaxwell> (because to propagate you must validate, and as traffic increases it will take more work to validate... and the speed of light isn't getting any faster to offset that :))
293 2012-04-01 04:13:49 <MC1984> propagation is pretty dumb right
294 2012-04-01 04:13:52 <luke-jr> not so long as I know Deepbit's node IPs
295 2012-04-01 04:14:08 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: well, even there they validate on ingress.
296 2012-04-01 04:14:12 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: ⦠not including txns will offset that
297 2012-04-01 04:14:17 <MC1984> they all just blab every block they see to every other node they know about
298 2012-04-01 04:14:44 <gmaxwell> MC1984: it's smarter than just that.
299 2012-04-01 04:15:18 <gmaxwell> It tells them about it, but it only gives them the hash. Then nodes pull blocks by hash from the first neighbor to tell them about them.
300 2012-04-01 04:15:26 <gmaxwell> So the flooding takes fairly little bandwidth.
301 2012-04-01 04:16:03 <MC1984> well thats rather more efficient
302 2012-04-01 04:16:21 <MC1984> but propagation is still basically a cascade right
303 2012-04-01 04:16:52 <splatster> Why doesn't someone create a node to which all the pools connect so as to increase propagation among the mining pools?
304 2012-04-01 04:17:17 <gmaxwell> splatster: because mining pool operators mostly don't care.
305 2012-04-01 04:17:28 <gmaxwell> (otherwise they could just share IPs and peer directly with each other)
306 2012-04-01 04:17:53 <splatster> But wouldn't they want to prevent creating orphan blocks themselves?
307 2012-04-01 04:17:55 <MC1984> yeah id rather not have a cabal of pool ops
308 2012-04-01 04:18:40 <gmaxwell> splatster: there still will be orphan blocks.
309 2012-04-01 04:18:53 <splatster> But there would be less, no?
310 2012-04-01 04:18:59 <gmaxwell> Probably not measurably so.
311 2012-04-01 04:19:07 <splatster> hmm, okay
312 2012-04-01 04:19:36 <gmaxwell> Speed of light/networks is more of a factor.. keep in mind.. the bitcoin network nodes are order 8 plus.
313 2012-04-01 04:19:46 <splatster> I'm sure deepbit could care less about orphans seeing as how many blocks they mine a day.
314 2012-04-01 04:20:06 <gmaxwell> average path-length in a order 8 randomly wired network..
315 2012-04-01 04:22:07 <MC1984> is it randomly wired?
316 2012-04-01 04:22:20 <MC1984> early internet was moreso i think
317 2012-04-01 04:22:50 <MC1984> but theres only a handful of tier 1 carriers now and it goes from there
318 2012-04-01 04:23:01 <splatster> Couldn't someone effectively flush out a pool by filling up all it's connections with malicious nodes? (i.e nodes that give it false information)
319 2012-04-01 04:23:02 JRWR has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
320 2012-04-01 04:23:19 <MC1984> pools closed.jpg
321 2012-04-01 04:24:09 <gmaxwell> splatster: no.
322 2012-04-01 04:24:25 <gmaxwell> splatster: input and output are seperate and nodes always connect out too.
323 2012-04-01 04:24:41 <gmaxwell> also, a sane pool will operate multiple nodes, and the ones that actually mine only connect out.
324 2012-04-01 04:25:27 <gmaxwell> Heck my p2pool operation involves four nodes. (two mining nodes which only connect to my own nodes and a couple carefully vetted known pulls, and two public nodes)
325 2012-04-01 04:26:14 <MC1984> why you vet nodes
326 2012-04-01 04:26:22 <MC1984> isnt it spose to be zero trust
327 2012-04-01 04:26:25 <MC1984> thats the point
328 2012-04-01 04:27:12 <gmaxwell> MC1984: because I don't want them DOS attacking my performance sensitive nodes.
329 2012-04-01 04:28:33 <MC1984> why would someone dos a bitcoain dev
330 2012-04-01 04:28:36 <MC1984> haters gonna hate
331 2012-04-01 04:29:08 <gmaxwell> MC1984: there is a lot of freaky stuff out there.
332 2012-04-01 04:29:39 <MC1984> saying that why arnt exchanges and pools constantly dossing each other out of existence
333 2012-04-01 04:31:24 <gmaxwell> Why would that? Most acctacky things I've seen mostly just seem to be idiots screwing around... e.g. trying to build nodes to spy on the network and connecting to me a zillion times and such.
334 2012-04-01 04:31:55 <MC1984> take out the competition
335 2012-04-01 04:32:04 <forsetifox> BTCE is charging 1 US cent to post a message in chat now. LOLz
336 2012-04-01 04:32:15 <MC1984> its like asking why does one company lobby the govt to kill a competitor
337 2012-04-01 04:32:17 <[Tycho]> What chat ?
338 2012-04-01 04:32:25 <forsetifox> BTCE's chat.
339 2012-04-01 04:32:28 <forsetifox> "ATTENTION: 1 message in chat = 0.01$"
340 2012-04-01 04:32:31 <gmaxwell> hahah
341 2012-04-01 04:32:35 <[Tycho]> Never hear about it.
342 2012-04-01 04:32:36 <forsetifox> Good for them.
343 2012-04-01 04:32:38 <[Tycho]> *d
344 2012-04-01 04:32:47 <MC1984> wat?
345 2012-04-01 04:32:56 <gmaxwell> BTCE chat is like youtube comments most of the time.
346 2012-04-01 04:33:01 <forsetifox> Yeah.
347 2012-04-01 04:33:11 <forsetifox> Trolls or just people chatting about whatever.
348 2012-04-01 04:33:19 MrJiffy has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
349 2012-04-01 04:33:53 <[Tycho]> Also I wonder why btcex exchange is still used after all that story.
350 2012-04-01 04:35:17 <forsetifox> What story?
351 2012-04-01 04:35:38 <[Tycho]> The owner of btcex stole all his user's bitcoins.
352 2012-04-01 04:35:47 <gmaxwell> wha?
353 2012-04-01 04:36:17 <forsetifox> I think dev is screwing around with the chatters. =P
354 2012-04-01 04:36:21 <[Tycho]> It's a russian exchange, so that may be the cause why people don't know about it.
355 2012-04-01 04:36:35 <[Tycho]> About the story, I mean.
356 2012-04-01 04:36:47 <gmaxwell> crazy!
357 2012-04-01 04:37:00 <gmaxwell> well, it's is (was?) the biggest exchange for litecoin.
358 2012-04-01 04:37:05 <jgarzik> btcex owner was crazy in a number of ways
359 2012-04-01 04:38:02 <[Tycho]> Popular opinion is that before the bubble peak he exchanged all the BTCs for USD, expecting BTC rate to crash soon, but instead the bubble happened and he wasn't able to exchange everything back.
360 2012-04-01 04:38:53 <[Tycho]> He also locked all the real-money accounts, but that was mostly solved later.
361 2012-04-01 04:42:58 <[Tycho]> May be it's because they allow LRUSD withdraws, but I'm not sure about that.
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369 2012-04-01 05:11:51 <nanotube> gmaxwell: it's true, it's all on the russian-side bitcoin talk forums. he basically defaulted on his depositors.
370 2012-04-01 05:12:05 <nanotube> back in the pre-price spike days.
371 2012-04-01 05:12:24 <gmaxwell> Hm. It's funny, I think I knew this at one point and then assumed it was someone else.
372 2012-04-01 05:12:28 <gmaxwell> Crazy.
373 2012-04-01 05:15:47 osmosis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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375 2012-04-01 05:19:13 <gmaxwell> oh god, someone in #p2pool though p2sh meant a new blockchain or something and was busily trying to sell all his non-p2sh bitcoins.
376 2012-04-01 05:20:49 <forsetifox> Heh.
377 2012-04-01 05:25:18 <nanotube> hopefully he didn't have much ;)
378 2012-04-01 05:27:33 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
379 2012-04-01 05:29:53 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
380 2012-04-01 05:30:47 <[Tycho]> p2pool just got orphaned. I wonder why...
381 2012-04-01 05:31:18 <gmaxwell> because it was late.
382 2012-04-01 05:31:30 <[Tycho]> And 50BTC block is not p2sh
383 2012-04-01 05:31:42 <[Tycho]> Why no one is sending funny p2sh TXes ?
384 2012-04-01 05:31:58 <gmaxwell> Yes sure, the p2pool block hit my nodes a good 30 seconds or so after the tying block.
385 2012-04-01 05:32:29 <[Tycho]> p2sh block is 1tx one somehow :)
386 2012-04-01 05:32:32 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: because that wouldn't make enough trouble.. better to wait a few days before doing it then the people that get hit won't make the connection as to why their blocks are being orphaned.
387 2012-04-01 05:32:49 Nesetalis has joined
388 2012-04-01 05:33:32 <[Tycho]> Do you think so ?
389 2012-04-01 05:33:34 <forsetifox> Heh.
390 2012-04-01 05:33:50 <[Tycho]> May be it's better when they don't have a clue yet
391 2012-04-01 05:33:55 tower has joined
392 2012-04-01 05:34:50 <gmaxwell> well, if I was sure of that I'd make the non-p2sh spoiler txn myself.
393 2012-04-01 05:35:31 <forsetifox> Forrest is in here. Doesn't he basically control that?
394 2012-04-01 05:39:42 <forrestv> control what?
395 2012-04-01 05:40:21 <gmaxwell> The orphaning of blocks.
396 2012-04-01 05:47:53 Karmaon has joined
397 2012-04-01 05:49:45 <forrestv> forsetifox, all i control is p2pool's implementation, and p2pool does close to the best it can to not get blocks orphaned (which really just means sending them to bitcoind as soon as they are received from the miner)
398 2012-04-01 05:52:41 <forsetifox> So who changes P2Pool to accept BIP30 stuff then?
399 2012-04-01 05:57:36 <gmaxwell> forsetifox: ... there is no change to p2pool for BIP30.
400 2012-04-01 05:58:43 <forsetifox> Could've sworn someone in here said BIP30 was going to kill p2pool.
401 2012-04-01 05:59:58 <gmaxwell> People say things ... they're not always right.
402 2012-04-01 06:15:53 <conman> oh noes someone on the internet is wrong
403 2012-04-01 06:15:54 Slix` has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
404 2012-04-01 06:18:49 kingkatari has joined
405 2012-04-01 06:19:13 <kingkatari> ok maybe someone can help me is anyone awake
406 2012-04-01 06:20:24 <kingkatari> I am trying to set up my linux ubuntu system to run bitcoin as a server so i can solo mine
407 2012-04-01 06:20:39 <kingkatari> and i need a lil help with a few of the conf settings
408 2012-04-01 06:22:24 <kingkatari> for solo mining do i set gen=0 or gen=1
409 2012-04-01 06:22:55 conman has left ("Leaving")
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413 2012-04-01 06:31:37 minimoose has joined
414 2012-04-01 06:33:56 <forsetifox> rpcallowip=your IP range rpcconnect=127.0.0.1 rpcport=8332 rpcuser=username rpcpassword=password server=1
415 2012-04-01 06:34:05 <forsetifox> That's for you king.
416 2012-04-01 06:35:00 <forsetifox> That's so the server can mine. If you want the others to mine just have them connect to the IP of the server computer.
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439 2012-04-01 08:19:52 <kish> "version" : 60006,
440 2012-04-01 08:19:52 <kish> "protocolversion" : 60000,
441 2012-04-01 08:19:52 <kish> "walletversion" : 10500,
442 2012-04-01 08:19:53 <kish> "balance" : 0.00000000,
443 2012-04-01 08:19:53 <kish> "blocks" : 170059,
444 2012-04-01 08:20:10 <kish> i am screwed: THAT is the latest git build
445 2012-04-01 08:20:19 <kish> but the blocks are STILL STUCK
446 2012-04-01 08:21:25 <Cory> How much of the netword supports BIP16?
447 2012-04-01 08:21:35 copumpkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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450 2012-04-01 08:23:04 copumpkin has quit (Client Quit)
451 2012-04-01 08:24:13 <Cory> (How much of the network accepts invalid spends of BIP16 transactions?)
452 2012-04-01 08:24:47 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
453 2012-04-01 08:24:49 fpgaminer has joined
454 2012-04-01 08:25:16 <sturles> 74% support BIP16.
455 2012-04-01 08:25:18 <sturles> http://blockchain.info/p2sh
456 2012-04-01 08:25:27 molecular has joined
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459 2012-04-01 08:36:40 <Cory> sturles: 74% vote in favor. Does that mean the rest accept invalid spends of BIP16 transactions?
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464 2012-04-01 08:55:40 <sturles> Yes, but when they do their blocks will not be accepted by the other nodes.
465 2012-04-01 08:57:47 Cory has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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470 2012-04-01 09:01:48 <Cory> Could the mining power of those who don't support BIP16 be easily removed from the network, then?
471 2012-04-01 09:04:47 T_X has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
472 2012-04-01 09:05:02 <sturles> Don't know if it is easy. Would require more knowledge than I have..
473 2012-04-01 09:07:15 Cory has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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485 2012-04-01 09:28:35 <SomeoneWeird> Cory, I don't see why not.
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494 2012-04-01 09:53:59 <midnightmagic> correction: 74% *report* supporting p2sh via the little string. there are more that support it but don't report it.
495 2012-04-01 09:54:49 pusle has joined
496 2012-04-01 09:54:50 <midnightmagic> removing them from the network would require that all participating nodes reject connectivity with the others.
497 2012-04-01 09:55:49 <Cory> Just broadcast invalid spends of BIP16 and they won't be able to contribute.
498 2012-04-01 09:56:07 <midnightmagic> that is actively destructive, and a disproportionate response.
499 2012-04-01 09:56:17 <midnightmagic> why douby screw them?
500 2012-04-01 09:56:23 <midnightmagic> er.. doubly..
501 2012-04-01 09:56:47 <Cory> Heh, I'm not advocating it. Just making sure it would be as easy as I thought.
502 2012-04-01 09:57:16 <doublec> someone will do it I'm sure
503 2012-04-01 09:57:42 <Cory> Can we estimate the percentage that actually support BIP16 (not necessarily report their support)?
504 2012-04-01 09:58:07 <midnightmagic> (my answer presupposes your premise)
505 2012-04-01 09:58:31 <midnightmagic> not by my understanding.
506 2012-04-01 09:59:25 <midnightmagic> perhaps detect complaints and estimate complaints:no complaints ratio?
507 2012-04-01 09:59:41 pklaus has joined
508 2012-04-01 09:59:42 <sipa> kish: just delete and redownload the chain
509 2012-04-01 10:00:06 <sipa> kish: blkindex.dat and blk0001.dat
510 2012-04-01 10:00:26 <sipa> it should not take long in 0.6
511 2012-04-01 10:00:58 <midnightmagic> sipa: kish: my fix for that also involved downloading a bootstrap block chain, so I didn't even have to download the whole of it. check the sourceforge bitcoin project downloads.
512 2012-04-01 10:04:24 <sipa> 0.7 will probably have an option to load a blockchain from a local blk0001.dat file, and rebuild the index from there
513 2012-04-01 10:04:37 <sipa> takes around half an hour for me
514 2012-04-01 10:05:00 <lh77> :
515 2012-04-01 10:05:02 <lh77> :/
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518 2012-04-01 10:41:34 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
519 2012-04-01 10:45:26 <kish> i got slow pc and slow internet sipa
520 2012-04-01 10:46:48 Clipse has joined
521 2012-04-01 10:47:13 <kish> i will die it over night
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533 2012-04-01 11:23:01 <sipa> gmaxwell: prioritize nodes it has connected to?
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535 2012-04-01 11:30:30 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1022 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1022>
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546 2012-04-01 12:05:52 <t7> 0.6 was an april fools
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550 2012-04-01 12:47:15 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1023 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1023>
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559 2012-04-01 13:18:10 <Blitzboom> can someone tell me a website that lists bitcoin nodes and their country?
560 2012-04-01 13:18:21 <Blitzboom> there was one â¦
561 2012-04-01 13:18:49 <Blitzboom> i want to look for an increase in syrian nodes
562 2012-04-01 13:21:16 <[Tycho]> You can check TX sources at blockchain.info
563 2012-04-01 13:22:11 <genjix> Blitzboom: google bitcoin rowit stats
564 2012-04-01 13:22:14 genjix has left ()
565 2012-04-01 13:22:14 <Blitzboom> the website i meant was some graph with the nodes
566 2012-04-01 13:22:35 <Blitzboom> http://bitcoinstatus.rowit.co.uk/
567 2012-04-01 13:22:41 <Blitzboom> thanks
568 2012-04-01 13:23:13 <Blitzboom> too bad, not a single syrian node
569 2012-04-01 13:23:40 <Blitzboom> context: apparently the syrian central bankâs website was defaced: http://i.imgur.com/I9ao7.jpg
570 2012-04-01 13:23:48 <Blitzboom> with a bitcoin ad
571 2012-04-01 13:24:52 <SomeoneWeird> ha
572 2012-04-01 13:27:09 <upb> 'death squads'?
573 2012-04-01 13:27:16 <upb> is this defacement by the CIA or something
574 2012-04-01 13:27:35 <upb> fucking idiots
575 2012-04-01 13:27:58 MrJiffy has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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578 2012-04-01 13:35:35 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
579 2012-04-01 13:36:09 BTC_Bear is now known as BTC_Bear|hbrntng
580 2012-04-01 13:38:39 MrJiffy has joined
581 2012-04-01 13:53:41 tower has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
582 2012-04-01 13:57:09 * [7] wonders if there has been a poison transaction yet
583 2012-04-01 14:00:29 tower has joined
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586 2012-04-01 14:07:05 <kinlo> poison?
587 2012-04-01 14:07:25 <kinlo> you mean a bip17 one, to see if the blockchain splits?
588 2012-04-01 14:07:33 <sipa> bip16
589 2012-04-01 14:09:20 <kinlo> right
590 2012-04-01 14:09:28 <kinlo> still need to upgrade one wallet :/
591 2012-04-01 14:09:42 <sipa> one wallet, or one installation?
592 2012-04-01 14:10:02 <kinlo> one binary, which operates on one wallet
593 2012-04-01 14:10:24 <kinlo> but it isn't used for mining so I still have some time
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601 2012-04-01 14:29:04 <lh77> lolz
602 2012-04-01 14:32:12 copumpkin has joined
603 2012-04-01 14:39:30 <gmaxwell> kish: did you get yourself fixed yet?
604 2012-04-01 14:40:03 <gmaxwell> sipa: kish appears to be saying above that they're stuck on the "blocks" : 170059, fork even with latest git
605 2012-04-01 14:51:04 <sipa> gmaxwell: i noticee
606 2012-04-01 14:51:08 <sipa> d
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621 2012-04-01 15:27:17 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
622 2012-04-01 15:27:56 BTC_Bear is now known as BTC_Bear|hbrntng
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671 2012-04-01 17:25:41 Samuel has joined
672 2012-04-01 17:25:42 <Samuel> Hello!
673 2012-04-01 17:26:01 <sipa> wb Samuel
674 2012-04-01 17:26:17 <Samuel> yeah, I haven't checked in here in a while
675 2012-04-01 17:26:41 <Samuel> How is the design of the app coming along?
676 2012-04-01 17:27:02 <sipa> haven't seen many updates from tcatm anymore
677 2012-04-01 17:27:13 <Samuel> Oh... hmm
678 2012-04-01 17:27:17 <sipa> 0.6 has been released in the mean time
679 2012-04-01 17:27:55 <Samuel> Oh really? Any design changes?
680 2012-04-01 17:27:59 graingert has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
681 2012-04-01 17:28:33 graingert has joined
682 2012-04-01 17:28:52 <sipa> No, we were already doing 0.6 release candidates when you and tcatm starting redesigning.
683 2012-04-01 17:29:00 <user_> sipa: what do you think of my last commeent here: https://gist.github.com/830ca16758fb9ad496d7#comments
684 2012-04-01 17:29:41 <Cryo> ooh, I missed that 0.6.0 was released
685 2012-04-01 17:30:05 <sipa> user_: i should read the rest of the document first :)
686 2012-04-01 17:30:37 <Cryo> client should compel people to upgrade
687 2012-04-01 17:31:25 <user_> sipa: ok
688 2012-04-01 17:31:42 MC1984 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
689 2012-04-01 17:31:59 <sipa> Cryo: how would the client now?
690 2012-04-01 17:32:11 <sipa> *know
691 2012-04-01 17:32:27 <Cryo> sparkle is a good way, on the mac
692 2012-04-01 17:32:36 <Samuel> Question: Why is the delete button even there if you can't delete receiving addresses?
693 2012-04-01 17:32:38 <Cryo> checks a url on start up and compares version #
694 2012-04-01 17:33:58 <sipa> Cryo: checking a url implies a central authority
695 2012-04-01 17:34:09 <sipa> which can be hacked, ...
696 2012-04-01 17:34:29 fpgaminer has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
697 2012-04-01 17:34:33 <sipa> Samuel: there's recently been a pull request for fixing that
698 2012-04-01 17:34:36 <Cryo> no more than bitcoin.org is an authority
699 2012-04-01 17:34:39 p0s has joined
700 2012-04-01 17:35:04 <Cryo> I mean if you're gonna use that, might as well go all the way up the authority chain :)
701 2012-04-01 17:35:15 <tcatm> Samuel: http://188.138.99.157/stuff/qtvert17.png
702 2012-04-01 17:35:42 fpgaminer has joined
703 2012-04-01 17:35:46 <sipa> Cryo: true, but if bitcoin.org got hacked, and we would notice after an hour, probably not too many people will have the bad version
704 2012-04-01 17:36:04 <Samuel> Ahh, cool. But shouldn't the icon be white when the tab is selected?
705 2012-04-01 17:36:38 <sipa> Cryo: if an autoupdate system was infected, a very significant percentage of network nodes may be affected
706 2012-04-01 17:37:23 <Cryo> still sounds strawman
707 2012-04-01 17:37:24 <user_> tcatm: samuel: i think the btc numbers should be green
708 2012-04-01 17:37:34 <sipa> Cryo: there is talk about a system where updates would be signed by several developers, and the autoupdate system would check those
709 2012-04-01 17:37:48 <Samuel> user_ I don't think that would look good
710 2012-04-01 17:38:00 <t7> who has 44k BTC :3
711 2012-04-01 17:38:24 <sipa> t7: testnet
712 2012-04-01 17:38:37 <sipa> not real BTC
713 2012-04-01 17:39:21 <user_> tcatm: samuel: and what about a orange bitcoin icon near my balance. orange when is synchronized, and gray when not
714 2012-04-01 17:39:38 <Samuel> hmm
715 2012-04-01 17:39:40 <Samuel> maybe
716 2012-04-01 17:43:02 <gmaxwell> tcatm: are you also an xmonad user?
717 2012-04-01 17:43:37 <sipa> looks like it
718 2012-04-01 17:48:01 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
719 2012-04-01 17:49:40 <Samuel> I just came up with this splash screen design http://cl.ly/0F231k2L0B3H0X0R220P
720 2012-04-01 17:51:47 <Samuel> Anyone here?
721 2012-04-01 17:53:12 <sipa> sure
722 2012-04-01 17:53:21 <sipa> looks nice to me
723 2012-04-01 17:53:44 <Samuel> better than what we have now... that brown wallet is really ugly
724 2012-04-01 17:54:51 paulo_ has joined
725 2012-04-01 17:54:53 <paulo_> Hello
726 2012-04-01 17:55:09 <paulo_> does everyone in the network have a local copy of each and every transaction?
727 2012-04-01 17:55:58 hexTech has joined
728 2012-04-01 17:56:35 <sipa> paulo_: all full nodes, yes
729 2012-04-01 17:56:38 <twmz_> paulo_: yes
730 2012-04-01 17:57:28 <paulo_> won't that take up too much space? (or in the future)
731 2012-04-01 17:58:10 <twmz_> disk is cheap
732 2012-04-01 17:58:36 joehallofame has joined
733 2012-04-01 17:58:56 <twmz_> in the future non-full nodes may be more common
734 2012-04-01 17:59:10 <joehallofame> Please help me. I just put about 300 into my wallet, tried to send and when I type my password in it crashes.
735 2012-04-01 17:59:13 forsetifox has joined
736 2012-04-01 17:59:48 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: ASCII a stupid question, get a stupid ANSI!)
737 2012-04-01 18:00:13 <joehallofame> I have no back up before it started doing this, I have uploaded 6.0 and it still does it. The old version I was using was 5.0
738 2012-04-01 18:01:05 <gmaxwell> Losing 30 wasn't enough so you added another 270? :-/
739 2012-04-01 18:02:08 <joehallofame> Three hundred bucks not coins, and I just said 30 because I didn't want to seem like easy prey to a hacker.
740 2012-04-01 18:02:21 <sipa> ok
741 2012-04-01 18:02:23 <joehallofame> No gmax I have not added any since last night 61 bitcoins
742 2012-04-01 18:03:07 <gmaxwell> Unfortunately I'm not sure what to suggest now. You've tried the old version and the current version. Can you actually see the balance before you try to send?
743 2012-04-01 18:03:34 <joehallofame> Thanks for the help guys I know your tryin', yes I can see the balance of 61 coins.
744 2012-04-01 18:03:37 <sipa> joehallofame: which OS are you using?
745 2012-04-01 18:04:06 <joehallofame> I was using 5.0 when it happened, then I tried 6.0, then I tried 5.3.1
746 2012-04-01 18:04:25 <sipa> no, which operating system?
747 2012-04-01 18:04:37 <joehallofame> Oh shit sorry windows xp
748 2012-04-01 18:05:18 <gmaxwell> You wouldn't happen to have a Linux system handy would you? (this might be a windows specific bug)
749 2012-04-01 18:05:39 <joehallofame> No sir, I don't have the old penguin on standby.
750 2012-04-01 18:06:21 <joehallofame> That's a good point though, and if worse comes to worse, then I guess it will just sit there and hopefully you all can come up with something.
751 2012-04-01 18:07:05 <sipa> chances exist that you have a part of the wallet corrupted somehow
752 2012-04-01 18:07:20 <sipa> but this doesn't necessarily mean that the key corresponding to the funded address is bad
753 2012-04-01 18:07:42 <gmaxwell> The fact that it can distinguish a good and bad password indicates that the master key is fine.
754 2012-04-01 18:07:49 <gmaxwell> And that the wallet isn't totally unreadable.
755 2012-04-01 18:08:17 <sipa> indeed
756 2012-04-01 18:08:25 <joehallofame> I don't know what that means, but if you guys can fix it then you guys can have 10 coins a piece.
757 2012-04-01 18:08:41 <joehallofame> Thats about all I could afford as a reward.
758 2012-04-01 18:08:41 <gmaxwell> ha, well, I want the software fixedâ not your coins. :)
759 2012-04-01 18:08:56 <joehallofame> :) that makes sense.
760 2012-04-01 18:09:23 <gmaxwell> can you run bitcoin from the command prompt and see if it prints anything when it crashes?
761 2012-04-01 18:09:43 <joehallofame> Ill try.
762 2012-04-01 18:09:47 <sipa> i'm afraid we're too late for fixing the software (or at least for detecting what caused it)
763 2012-04-01 18:10:06 <sipa> but maybe a recovery mode is possible to is more tolerant to wallet errors
764 2012-04-01 18:10:35 <joehallofame> Nos erit adepto eos, altera tempore. My family motto in latin.
765 2012-04-01 18:11:08 <joehallofame> what do I type in the command prompt?
766 2012-04-01 18:11:43 <gmaxwell> joehallofame: change to the directory where bitcoin is located and type bitcoin-qt.exe (sorry, I'm not much helpâ I am a complete idiot about windows)
767 2012-04-01 18:12:50 Cablesaurus has joined
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769 2012-04-01 18:12:50 Cablesaurus has joined
770 2012-04-01 18:13:03 <joehallofame> This is what windows said. "Runtime Error Program: C:\Program Files\Bitcoin\bitcoin-qt.exe This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way. Please contact the applicationâs support team for more information."
771 2012-04-01 18:13:16 <gmaxwell> hey, an assert?
772 2012-04-01 18:14:17 <gmaxwell> maybe it's just the keypool is corrupted.
773 2012-04-01 18:14:49 tucenaber has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
774 2012-04-01 18:15:12 <sipa> gmaxwell: if it's the same as that other issue, it's the assert for checking CSecret's length
775 2012-04-01 18:15:30 <gmaxwell> oh. :(
776 2012-04-01 18:15:50 <gmaxwell> joehallofame: in the appdata directory for bitcoin there should be a file called debug.log can you paste the last few lines from it (assuming you haven't restarted since the crash)
777 2012-04-01 18:15:52 <joehallofame> Wow im in dos and I feel like im in a time warp to 1990, Im goin to see if saved by the bell is on.
778 2012-04-01 18:16:12 splatster has quit (Quit: splatster)
779 2012-04-01 18:16:31 <gmaxwell> Wheres screeach when you need him? I bet he could fix this. ;)
780 2012-04-01 18:17:06 <sipa> who?
781 2012-04-01 18:17:10 <joehallofame> Well it's running in windows now that i started it in dos.
782 2012-04-01 18:17:22 <joehallofame> what do i type in dos to try to send?
783 2012-04-01 18:17:57 <gmaxwell> sipa: geeky character from the 1990s tv show joehallofame mentioned.
784 2012-04-01 18:18:04 <joehallofame> lol
785 2012-04-01 18:18:19 <tcatm> gmaxwell: Yes, that's a (heavily customized) xmonad :)
786 2012-04-01 18:18:57 <gmaxwell> joehallofame: Running with the gui was the expected behaviorâ I just had you start it from the commandprompt so we could see that message.
787 2012-04-01 18:19:18 <gmaxwell> joehallofame: make it crash again then open up the debug.log with wordpad and get the last few lines out
788 2012-04-01 18:22:13 <joehallofame> ok the last few lines are:
789 2012-04-01 18:23:18 <joehallofame> 0x000519a0: 01000000 10000300 01000010 68002000 ............. h
790 2012-04-01 18:23:30 <joehallofame> is that what you mean stuff like this?
791 2012-04-01 18:23:53 <sipa> that's unexpected
792 2012-04-01 18:24:05 <sipa> can you copy-paste the last few pages on a site like pastebit.com?
793 2012-04-01 18:24:22 <joehallofame> 0x000519b0: 01000004 00202000 20000100 0010a800 ..... .... ....
794 2012-04-01 18:25:01 <joehallofame> Yea dude, i can try but I cant copy it maybe ill take a screen shot.
795 2012-04-01 18:25:03 bobke has joined
796 2012-04-01 18:25:17 <sipa> are you sure you're in wordpad?
797 2012-04-01 18:25:31 <sipa> and that you opened debug.log?
798 2012-04-01 18:25:50 <sipa> in the bitcoin data directory?
799 2012-04-01 18:26:09 <joehallofame> no Im not I just clicked see error report, and then clicked seetechnical information about the error report.
800 2012-04-01 18:26:35 <joehallofame> can you walk me through that. I still have the command prompt up after i started it there, what should I type?
801 2012-04-01 18:28:20 MC1984 has joined
802 2012-04-01 18:28:26 <sipa> close the command prompt
803 2012-04-01 18:28:32 <joehallofame> done
804 2012-04-01 18:28:34 mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
805 2012-04-01 18:28:46 <sipa> go to start -> run
806 2012-04-01 18:28:55 <sipa> type this:
807 2012-04-01 18:28:56 <sipa> explorer %APPDATA%\Bitcoin
808 2012-04-01 18:29:08 <sipa> click run
809 2012-04-01 18:29:31 <joehallofame> done popped up window with debug in it.
810 2012-04-01 18:30:21 <t7> pro-tip: you dont need to type explorer
811 2012-04-01 18:30:21 <sipa> ok, open that debug.log file
812 2012-04-01 18:30:34 <sipa> t7: right; feel free to update https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Data_directory
813 2012-04-01 18:31:18 <joehallofame> sending getdata: tx 5270984d5e84de821025 sending getdata: tx 08f41749688a3dbcca61 IRC got join IRC got join
814 2012-04-01 18:31:26 <joehallofame> should it say something like that.
815 2012-04-01 18:31:32 <sipa> yes, that's it
816 2012-04-01 18:31:45 <sipa> now scroll down to the bottom, and copy-paste the last few pages to pastebin.com
817 2012-04-01 18:32:01 <joehallofame> you got it comin right up
818 2012-04-01 18:32:11 <sipa> joehallofame: i've just implemented a very quick "wallet recovery mode" patch for bitcoin; if i make you a windows build of it, would you consider trying it? (it's hardly tested, but it may save your wallet)
819 2012-04-01 18:33:10 <joehallofame> yea dude Ill give it a shot if you think there's a chance.
820 2012-04-01 18:33:30 Samuel has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
821 2012-04-01 18:34:17 <joehallofame> it's pasted, now what should I do to run the patch?
822 2012-04-01 18:34:47 <sipa> i'm building it, but that will take half an hour or so
823 2012-04-01 18:35:00 <sipa> what's the link to the debug.log paste?
824 2012-04-01 18:35:26 <joehallofame> im goin outside to smoke, wonderful, Ill check back in 45 min. Cool?
825 2012-04-01 18:35:42 <joehallofame> let me look for that debug link.
826 2012-04-01 18:35:55 JRWR has joined
827 2012-04-01 18:36:06 <sipa> just copy the url of the page your browser has open
828 2012-04-01 18:36:10 <joehallofame> http://pastebin.com/2LQfs8zd
829 2012-04-01 18:37:32 <joehallofame> have fun ill check in here in five min to see if you need anything before I go study for a bit.
830 2012-04-01 18:39:43 <sipa> ok, that's expected indeed
831 2012-04-01 18:48:56 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.)
832 2012-04-01 18:53:19 <joehallofame> Ok see you in about a half hour, and thank you so much for tryin to help, just really cool. I know you want the software to work, but the reward is still in effect. Thanks again sipa. See ya later.
833 2012-04-01 18:55:58 <user_> etotheipi_: you there?
834 2012-04-01 18:56:09 <etotheipi_> user_, yes I am
835 2012-04-01 18:57:00 <user_> what do you think of my last comment here: https://gist.github.com/830ca16758fb9ad496d7
836 2012-04-01 18:57:34 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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838 2012-04-01 18:58:50 <etotheipi_> user_, you just made me realize that I need to respond to both you and gavin in that thread...
839 2012-04-01 18:59:02 <etotheipi_> user_, but that is the general idea I was aiming for
840 2012-04-01 18:59:28 <etotheipi_> the difference is that the amount that goes in will be determined by the two parties as level of "risk", put more "deposit" in if there's more risk
841 2012-04-01 18:59:32 <user_> please, i would like your comment thhere
842 2012-04-01 18:59:48 <etotheipi_> third party would get involved that risk level has at least 15% "deposit" from both users
843 2012-04-01 19:00:26 <etotheipi_> user_, I believe bitdispute should get both deposits
844 2012-04-01 19:00:33 <etotheipi_> that way it is equally funded by both parties
845 2012-04-01 19:01:12 localhost has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
846 2012-04-01 19:01:50 <user_> hum
847 2012-04-01 19:02:49 <etotheipi_> user_, 20 BTC is the price... they agree on 20% "risk deposit", so Alice puts in 24 BTC, Bob puts in 4 BTC... they both get the 4 BTC back if it goes smoothly
848 2012-04-01 19:03:03 <etotheipi_> otherwise the third-party gets the 8 BTC for resolving the dispute
849 2012-04-01 19:03:19 <etotheipi_> and thus the dispute fee is paid for by both parties
850 2012-04-01 19:03:26 <user_> eetotheipi_: my english is not good, so i wouuld like you respond as a comment on gist page
851 2012-04-01 19:03:32 <etotheipi_> user_, okay
852 2012-04-01 19:04:29 paulo__ has joined
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854 2012-04-01 19:04:44 paulo__ is now known as paulo_
855 2012-04-01 19:04:55 localhost has joined
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857 2012-04-01 19:11:12 splatster has joined
858 2012-04-01 19:12:45 scottj_ has joined
859 2012-04-01 19:13:12 <user_> etotheipei_: as you can see i made a mistake on percentage. 2% of 20= 0.4
860 2012-04-01 19:15:51 <user_> etotheipi_: i don't uderstand why you think the charge fee should be paid by both parties
861 2012-04-01 19:16:47 comboy has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
862 2012-04-01 19:17:04 comboy has joined
863 2012-04-01 19:27:46 <sipa> joehallofame: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/builds/0.6.0-1-gc8bd77b/
864 2012-04-01 19:30:27 fpgaminer has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
865 2012-04-01 19:31:40 fpgaminer has joined
866 2012-04-01 19:31:55 <joehallofame> hey sipa Im back
867 2012-04-01 19:32:14 <sipa> joehallofame: install that
868 2012-04-01 19:32:21 <joehallofame> you got it.
869 2012-04-01 19:32:28 <sipa> and when you're done, run it using "bitcoin-qt.exe -recover"
870 2012-04-01 19:32:36 <sipa> on the command prompt, without the ""
871 2012-04-01 19:33:39 RazielZ has joined
872 2012-04-01 19:34:49 <sipa> joehallofame: that will not fix your wallet in any way, though; it will just ignore errors it encounters
873 2012-04-01 19:35:06 <sipa> so things maybe be inconsistent afterwards, or weird errors may show up
874 2012-04-01 19:35:16 <sipa> but it may be enough for you to send your funds elsewhere
875 2012-04-01 19:37:06 <joehallofame> ok its installed, Ill report back.
876 2012-04-01 19:37:11 <scottj_> is there a python client?
877 2012-04-01 19:37:42 hexTech has quit (Quit: -)
878 2012-04-01 19:38:18 fpgaminer has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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880 2012-04-01 19:42:31 BTC_Bear is now known as BTC_Bear|hbrntng
881 2012-04-01 19:43:22 Maged has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
882 2012-04-01 19:44:33 <joehallofame> no dice, now it says that my correct password is incorrect. But on the bright side its not crashing anymore.
883 2012-04-01 19:46:03 <joehallofame> sipa: would it help if i ran debug again?
884 2012-04-01 19:46:04 <etotheipi_> scottj_, Armory is built mostly in python: http://bitcoinarmory.com/ (the underlying blockchain engine is C++ but 80% of the overall functionality is in Python)
885 2012-04-01 19:46:08 fpgaminer has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
886 2012-04-01 19:46:10 andytoshi has joined
887 2012-04-01 19:46:49 fpgaminer has joined
888 2012-04-01 19:47:07 datagutt has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
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891 2012-04-01 19:47:25 Cablesaurus has joined
892 2012-04-01 19:47:26 <sipa> joehallofame: sure you used the right password?
893 2012-04-01 19:47:55 <t7> formally verified bitcoin client written in coq or go home
894 2012-04-01 19:48:03 occulta has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
895 2012-04-01 19:48:10 <sipa> t7: talk to roconnor :)
896 2012-04-01 19:48:58 <user_> etotheipi_: we disagree in anything?
897 2012-04-01 19:49:37 <user_> etotheipi_: maybe my english is bad
898 2012-04-01 19:50:40 <user_> etotheipi_: both parties deposit, but who win the dispute is refunded. right?
899 2012-04-01 19:51:50 <etotheipi_> user_, you bring up an interesting point, but I don't have time to ponder it right now
900 2012-04-01 19:52:01 <user_> ok
901 2012-04-01 19:52:07 <etotheipi_> I'll be back on, later, we can talk then
902 2012-04-01 19:52:23 <joehallofame> sipa: no I am not sure. but last night I used every password I had and when I got the right one it booted me out. This is the exact same thing that happened to the other dude too ( the one that gmax sent me a link to read about), therefore I am pretty sure it was the correct one.
903 2012-04-01 19:53:17 <joehallofame> let me try again ill report back in a few.
904 2012-04-01 19:53:30 scottj_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
905 2012-04-01 19:54:22 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
906 2012-04-01 19:58:57 Cryo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
907 2012-04-01 19:59:15 <sipa> joehallofame: oh, my mistake; it's supposed to be -recovery, not -recover
908 2012-04-01 19:59:49 <joehallofame> ok hmmm. it opened and now it wasn't booting me, but Ill open it that way
909 2012-04-01 20:03:57 erle- has joined
910 2012-04-01 20:10:24 <joehallofame> sipa: hey, we're gettin somewhere maybe, now it says "error: transaction creation failed"
911 2012-04-01 20:10:48 <joehallofame> but no matter what password I type it says that.
912 2012-04-01 20:11:03 <sipa> if you use the wrong password, it will certainly say that
913 2012-04-01 20:11:21 <sipa> (since all wallet keys will look invalid, so it'll throw them all away)
914 2012-04-01 20:11:56 <joehallofame> it used to say, incorrect password ( a different error message ). Hmmmm.
915 2012-04-01 20:13:02 <joehallofame> and instead of bringing me back to the password box, it just brings me all the way out to the send coins page.
916 2012-04-01 20:13:25 <joehallofame> Im goin to eat a burrito but Ill be back in about 20 or so.
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933 2012-04-01 20:59:37 <paulo_> so transaction fees "destroy" coins and allows them to be recreated through mining?
934 2012-04-01 21:00:29 <splatster> Transactions fees are added to the block reward of the blocks they are contained in.
935 2012-04-01 21:00:37 <sipa> paulo_: that's one way to put it
936 2012-04-01 21:01:00 <sipa> but if you follow that reasoning, every transactions destroys its input coins, and recreates them in the form of outputs
937 2012-04-01 21:01:50 <splatster> The only way to truly destroy coins is to send them to an unredeemable output.
938 2012-04-01 21:02:24 <gmaxwell> splatster: what would you call it then when you make a block that takes less than the permitted subsidy?
939 2012-04-01 21:02:57 <splatster> gmaxwell: A miner being less than smart.
940 2012-04-01 21:03:11 Joric has quit ()
941 2012-04-01 21:03:32 <splatster> Would those coins be redeemable, gmaxwell?
942 2012-04-01 21:04:02 fpgaminer has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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949 2012-04-01 21:11:29 <sipa> splatster: yes
950 2012-04-01 21:11:46 <sipa> a miner can create a coinbase with a lower value than the permitted maximum
951 2012-04-01 21:13:21 JRWR has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
952 2012-04-01 21:13:21 darkee has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
953 2012-04-01 21:14:15 <paulo_> what was the first target?
954 2012-04-01 21:16:14 <paulo_> wait, just found it
955 2012-04-01 21:22:53 Joric has joined
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964 2012-04-01 21:39:48 <joehallofame> sipa: well I give, I have 61 in there. Thanks for tryin that new code, is there anything else you think I should try before I sign out?
965 2012-04-01 21:39:53 <paulo_> how does bitcoin find other nodes?
966 2012-04-01 21:40:21 fpgaminer has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
967 2012-04-01 21:40:57 <sipa> joehallofame: i'll make a more complete recovery patch later; for now, just keep a backup of your broken wallet.dat
968 2012-04-01 21:41:59 erle64- has quit (Quit: erle64-)
969 2012-04-01 21:42:46 <joehallofame> You got it, Ill check in later, and it's nice to see people who are really trying to help out. Worst case scenario is I just don't use a wallet and work straight from the place I use to transform cash anyway. Thanks again Im out.
970 2012-04-01 21:44:11 graingert has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
971 2012-04-01 21:44:41 graingert has joined
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973 2012-04-01 21:46:03 <gmaxwell> paulo_: it learns about them from nodes it has connected to.
974 2012-04-01 21:47:57 joehallofame has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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984 2012-04-01 22:06:47 <gmaxwell> 15:03 < makomk> http://blockchain.info/orphaned-blocks - curious.
985 2012-04-01 22:07:28 <gmaxwell> Looks like the orphaning has begun.
986 2012-04-01 22:08:42 RedEmerald has quit (Quit: RedEmerald)
987 2012-04-01 22:09:01 <forsetifox> Pools that have implimented BIP30 are orphaning?
988 2012-04-01 22:09:10 <gmaxwell> forsetifox: What are you talking about?
989 2012-04-01 22:09:18 <paulo_> what does it mean?
990 2012-04-01 22:09:34 <forsetifox> The red X above the pool name doesn't mean that pool got an orphan?
991 2012-04-01 22:09:38 <gmaxwell> And I'm incorrect, these all look normal as far as I can tell.
992 2012-04-01 22:09:47 <gmaxwell> forsetifox: Yes, but why did you mention BIP30?
993 2012-04-01 22:10:05 <forsetifox> That's why the orphans are happening?
994 2012-04-01 22:10:13 t7 has joined
995 2012-04-01 22:10:15 <gmaxwell> Bip30 only makes a difference in the presence of an overwriting attack, which will never happen now that it will be futile.
996 2012-04-01 22:10:30 <forsetifox> Alrighty then. Then why is the orphaning happening?
997 2012-04-01 22:10:43 <k9quaint> because the parents never wanted children
998 2012-04-01 22:10:51 <sipa> a 4-block long split is quite unheard of
999 2012-04-01 22:11:13 <gmaxwell> I can't see why it happened in this case though.
1000 2012-04-01 22:11:20 <forsetifox> Heh.
1001 2012-04-01 22:11:33 <sipa> might MM be involved?
1002 2012-04-01 22:13:33 BruceFagner is now known as terry
1003 2012-04-01 22:13:51 <gmaxwell> oh it's four now. It was three before.
1004 2012-04-01 22:14:21 <makomk> When I looked before, I'm pretty sure the other side was winning too.
1005 2012-04-01 22:15:33 <k9quaint> a statistical cluster? or does the fork really have that much hash power behind it?
1006 2012-04-01 22:16:10 <gmaxwell> I notice that the fork is all "50btc" according to blockchain.info and all 1txn blocks
1007 2012-04-01 22:16:52 <Diablo-D3> what happened?
1008 2012-04-01 22:16:57 <Diablo-D3> whats bip30?
1009 2012-04-01 22:17:17 <sipa> Diablo-D3: disallow duplicate transactions
1010 2012-04-01 22:18:03 <gmaxwell> Based on the fork topology I'd expect it to be ozcoin mined an invalid block and them MM (labled 50BTC here) extended it.
1011 2012-04-01 22:18:14 <sipa> gmaxwell: so, there was a block from ozcoin where kept MM building on, while the rest of the network accepted slush's alternative
1012 2012-04-01 22:18:22 <gmaxwell> but I don't see anything invalid in ozcoin's block.
1013 2012-04-01 22:18:43 lyspooner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120312181643])
1014 2012-04-01 22:19:03 <gmaxwell> And blockchain.info recieved slush's much laterâ but that may just be because blockchain.info's peers had mostly accepted ozcoin's and only propagated slush's once that side won.
1015 2012-04-01 22:19:31 <Diablo-D3> so is anything wrong or not?
1016 2012-04-01 22:19:35 <sipa> gmaxwell: also, blockchain.info says about the blocks on the left that they are orphaned
1017 2012-04-01 22:19:48 <sipa> gmaxwell: while those on the right are claimed to be in the main chain
1018 2012-04-01 22:19:54 <sipa> the icons say differently
1019 2012-04-01 22:19:58 <makomk> blockchain.info seems to get that wrong on the actual block pages.
1020 2012-04-01 22:20:11 <gmaxwell> The output on the blockchain.info page isn't stable.
1021 2012-04-01 22:20:20 <gmaxwell> it just swapped left and right for me (again)
1022 2012-04-01 22:20:31 <gmaxwell> (but shows the MM side as losing still, which is right)
1023 2012-04-01 22:21:03 <k9quaint> deepbit will crush these uppity rebels!
1024 2012-04-01 22:21:06 <gmaxwell> I wonder if there were enough transactions in the real chain now that MM can't reorg back.
1025 2012-04-01 22:22:06 tower has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1026 2012-04-01 22:22:50 fpgaminer has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1027 2012-04-01 22:23:23 <makomk> I seem to recall MM was winning according to blockchain.info until Deepbit mined their own 173931, so who knows?
1028 2012-04-01 22:23:49 <gmaxwell> well the network is up to 173934
1029 2012-04-01 22:24:00 <gmaxwell> It'll be interesting to see if MM keeps extending that fork.
1030 2012-04-01 22:24:03 <makomk> Yeah.
1031 2012-04-01 22:24:03 graingert has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
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1034 2012-04-01 22:25:18 <[Tycho]> Wow, I see the fork !
1035 2012-04-01 22:25:52 <[Tycho]> But it's not p2sh-related ?
1036 2012-04-01 22:26:10 <gmaxwell> I don't see how it could be.
1037 2012-04-01 22:26:17 <gmaxwell> It could also be the result of people attacking the MM.
1038 2012-04-01 22:26:38 <gmaxwell> for it to be p2sh related there would have to be an invalid p2sh transaction in https://blockchain.info/block-index/202136/000000000000023df73ac98923e2de321db3e3396102ad5dcfe3b25f01a81f64
1039 2012-04-01 22:26:39 <[Tycho]> Or MM attacking people
1040 2012-04-01 22:27:03 fpgaminer has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1041 2012-04-01 22:27:30 <gmaxwell> (which would be surprising since the coinbase indicates p2sh support)
1042 2012-04-01 22:28:02 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: I can't see to what end.
1043 2012-04-01 22:28:16 fpgaminer has joined
1044 2012-04-01 22:28:16 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: (since his blocks have no txn)
1045 2012-04-01 22:28:26 danbri has joined
1046 2012-04-01 22:28:38 <gmaxwell> I suppose he could intentionally split the chain and then try to get ahead in an effort to find blocks without driving the difficulty up.
1047 2012-04-01 22:28:45 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1048 2012-04-01 22:29:03 <gmaxwell> but he doesn't have enough hash power to make that net profitable.
1049 2012-04-01 22:29:30 <[Tycho]> depth 4 is a bit disturbing.
1050 2012-04-01 22:30:22 <graingert> [Tycho]: ?
1051 2012-04-01 22:31:04 <[Tycho]> Length of orphaned branch.
1052 2012-04-01 22:31:08 <graingert> they are all 1tx
1053 2012-04-01 22:31:11 <graingert> how odd
1054 2012-04-01 22:31:19 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: the fact that it's all one node extending it makes it a little less so.
1055 2012-04-01 22:31:30 <[Tycho]> OzCoin's one is not.
1056 2012-04-01 22:31:44 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: e.g. his network connection going down before the slush/ozcoin split would create that.
1057 2012-04-01 22:31:46 <graingert> how do they know which is orphaned?
1058 2012-04-01 22:32:06 <graingert> !bc,stats
1059 2012-04-01 22:32:07 <gribble> Current Blocks: 173934 | Current Difficulty: 1626553.4813289 | Next Difficulty At Block: 175391 | Next Difficulty In: 1457 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 14 hours, 41 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1716268.57045631 | Estimated Percent Change: 5.51565565823
1060 2012-04-01 22:32:08 <gmaxwell> er before the slush/ozcoin split was resolved.
1061 2012-04-01 22:32:32 fpgaminer has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1062 2012-04-01 22:32:36 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1063 2012-04-01 22:33:23 <gmaxwell> I note that there have not been any '50btc' credited blocks since this fork.
1064 2012-04-01 22:33:41 tower has joined
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1066 2012-04-01 22:34:11 <graingert> ah there are higher blocks
1067 2012-04-01 22:34:30 <gmaxwell> graingert: sure. the fork looks resolved.
1068 2012-04-01 22:35:18 <graingert> slush/ozcoin?
1069 2012-04-01 22:35:38 <graingert> what are '50btc' credited blocks since
1070 2012-04-01 22:35:42 <graingert> what are '50btc' credited blocks
1071 2012-04-01 22:35:45 <graingert> are they not all of them
1072 2012-04-01 22:36:02 <gmaxwell> graingert: 50btc is the name of a pool.
1073 2012-04-01 22:36:18 <gmaxwell> But the MM's blocks are currently being called 50btc by blockchain.info (most likely)
1074 2012-04-01 22:36:30 <gmaxwell> Don't blame me for the confusing pool name.
1075 2012-04-01 22:36:55 <graingert> MM blocks?
1076 2012-04-01 22:37:06 Z0rZ0rZ0r1 has joined
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1078 2012-04-01 22:37:07 Z0rZ0rZ0r1 is now known as Z0rZ0rZ0r
1079 2012-04-01 22:39:50 <upb> MM = mossad miners
1080 2012-04-01 22:40:02 <upb> who mine with a zionist botnet
1081 2012-04-01 22:40:34 <makomk> gmaxwell: interestingly blockchain.info claims to have heard about the 1 tx version of block 173929 20 minutes before Donate@Home's, of 173930 25 minutes before Deepbit's, and of 173931 again 25 minutes before Deepbit's. That'd require unusually selective network failure on the part of the MM.
1082 2012-04-01 22:40:34 <graingert> zionist?
1083 2012-04-01 22:44:36 DBordello has joined
1084 2012-04-01 22:48:07 <DBordello> I am getting the following error now when I try to start bitcoind:
1085 2012-04-01 22:48:10 <DBordello> http://pastebin.com/fP4CreZK
1086 2012-04-01 22:48:18 <DBordello> Thoughts? Could it be due to a package update?
1087 2012-04-01 22:48:41 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1088 2012-04-01 22:48:50 <SomeoneWeird> DBordello, you have permission to bind to ports?
1089 2012-04-01 22:49:24 <DBordello> SomeoneWeird, I assume so.... I did before.
1090 2012-04-01 22:49:34 <DBordello> but that error seems to indicate otherwise
1091 2012-04-01 22:50:52 <DBordello> Hmmm, I see what is wrong. :)
1092 2012-04-01 22:51:35 <DBordello> I accidentally changed the rpc port to something too low, which I can't bind to :)
1093 2012-04-01 22:51:48 Slix` has joined
1094 2012-04-01 22:55:06 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1095 2012-04-01 22:57:01 <SomeoneWeird> ah
1096 2012-04-01 22:57:03 <SomeoneWeird> :)
1097 2012-04-01 22:57:24 <DBordello> Thank you for pointing out the obvious
1098 2012-04-01 22:57:24 <graingert> upb: zionist?
1099 2012-04-01 22:57:51 <upb> are you asking what zionist means?
1100 2012-04-01 22:58:03 <graingert> no just why you can have a zionist miner
1101 2012-04-01 22:58:08 <graingert> how*
1102 2012-04-01 22:58:10 <graingert> !google zionist
1103 2012-04-01 22:58:11 <gribble> Zionism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism>; A Definition of Zionism: <http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Zionism/zionism.html>; Zionist Organization of America.: <http://www.zoa.org/>
1104 2012-04-01 22:58:12 <TiggrBot> [zionist] http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ExKg8RgUS9gJ:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism+zionisthl=ct=clnk (Cached)
1105 2012-04-01 22:58:34 <graingert> a Jewish miner?
1106 2012-04-01 22:58:42 <upb> it is a botnet
1107 2012-04-01 22:58:52 <graingert> why would a jewish miner be a botnet?
1108 2012-04-01 22:59:03 <graingert> I can understand a botnet miner
1109 2012-04-01 22:59:14 <graingert> and I can understand a jewish miner (ish)
1110 2012-04-01 22:59:18 <graingert> but not both
1111 2012-04-01 22:59:20 <upb> haha
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1113 2012-04-01 23:03:53 copumpkin is now known as BTC_Teddybear
1114 2012-04-01 23:04:19 BTC_Teddybear is now known as copumpkin
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1119 2012-04-01 23:23:41 <Slix`> Zoinist takeover of bitcoin?
1120 2012-04-01 23:23:46 <Slix`> Zionist*
1121 2012-04-01 23:23:59 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1122 2012-04-01 23:24:31 <sipa> that's a pointer to a zionist?
1123 2012-04-01 23:29:54 danbri has joined
1124 2012-04-01 23:29:58 <kinlo> did anything change to the fee logic in 0.6?
1125 2012-04-01 23:30:44 <gmaxwell> No.
1126 2012-04-01 23:31:17 <kinlo> can't seem to create a transaction for 0.01 btc without fee on the testnet
1127 2012-04-01 23:32:37 Detritus has joined
1128 2012-04-01 23:34:59 amiller is now known as amiller`1115
1129 2012-04-01 23:45:39 <user_> reuters.com/article/2012/04/01/traders-bitcoin-idUSL6E8ET5K620120401
1130 2012-04-01 23:47:58 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1131 2012-04-01 23:49:21 random_cat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1132 2012-04-01 23:49:34 <sipa> interesting
1133 2012-04-01 23:51:39 random_cat has joined
1134 2012-04-01 23:53:34 paulo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1135 2012-04-01 23:55:13 t7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1137 2012-04-01 23:57:37 <nanotube> heh nice article
1138 2012-04-01 23:58:03 <sipa> i have not seen many articles that gave so many viewpoints
1139 2012-04-01 23:59:33 <Blitzboom> "Bitcoin is not going to fly because there is no central bank or power base. It's doomed to fail."
1140 2012-04-01 23:59:37 <Blitzboom> typical banker