1 2012-04-02 00:04:12 <Blitzboom> To be "Zhou Tonged" is to be wiped out financially.
   2 2012-04-02 00:04:14 <Blitzboom> i love it
   3 2012-04-02 00:05:10 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
   4 2012-04-02 00:05:43 <nanotube> yea they even added a space and capitalization.
   5 2012-04-02 00:06:40 <sipa> glad they did at least keep the latin character transliterations
   6 2012-04-02 00:06:42 <sipa> -s
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   8 2012-04-02 00:09:23 <gmaxwell> Blitzboom: that criticism does us a great service.
   9 2012-04-02 00:10:49 <Blitzboom> yeah
  10 2012-04-02 00:10:57 <Blitzboom> it’s an awesome article
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  20 2012-04-02 00:42:23 <k9quaint> so whats the word on that fork?
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  22 2012-04-02 00:45:20 <Cory> Fork? :O
  23 2012-04-02 00:46:31 <k9quaint> there was a 4 block fork a while back
  24 2012-04-02 00:50:46 <Cory> Wow. Were 3 of them probably mined by the mystery miner?
  25 2012-04-02 00:57:47 <Graet> no
  26 2012-04-02 00:58:05 <Graet> ozcoin and slush had blocks, both were built on
  27 2012-04-02 00:58:18 <Graet> a non bip16 pool screwed up one fork
  28 2012-04-02 00:58:19 <Cory> Did MM build three blocks on ozcoin's?
  29 2012-04-02 00:58:40 <Graet> http://blockchain.info/orphaned-blocks
  30 2012-04-02 00:58:42 <Graet> no
  31 2012-04-02 00:58:49 <Cory> I guess I'm reading it wrong.
  32 2012-04-02 00:59:24 <Graet> from wehat i read ^^^^^^^^ up there blockchain.ingo was reporting incorrectly
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  57 2012-04-02 02:36:58 <Graet> http://blockchain.info/ here we go again? i hope not
  58 2012-04-02 02:37:46 <forsetifox> Transactions aren't put in orphans are they?
  59 2012-04-02 02:38:18 <forsetifox> This web page shows they are but that sounds like a very bad idea to me.
  60 2012-04-02 02:38:30 <doublec> Graet: ouch, would that be two of your recent blocks orphaned?
  61 2012-04-02 02:40:22 <gmaxwell> forsetifox: What you're saying makes no sense at all.
  62 2012-04-02 02:41:04 <gmaxwell> You don't know your block is going to be orphaned when you creat it. An orphan is just a block that didn't end up becoming part of the longest chain, because some other block at the same height did again.
  63 2012-04-02 02:41:24 <gmaxwell> Graet: what code are you running? 0.6 or one of luke's backports? or?
  64 2012-04-02 02:41:32 <forsetifox> Are transactions normally put in orphaned blocks?
  65 2012-04-02 02:41:57 <copumpkin> orphaned blocks are normal blocks
  66 2012-04-02 02:42:09 <copumpkin> orphaning is a property of how the network treats the block, not the block itself
  67 2012-04-02 02:43:16 <gmaxwell> oh this looks boring
  68 2012-04-02 02:43:56 <copumpkin> Graet: here we go again about what?
  69 2012-04-02 02:44:12 <copumpkin> oh, another duplicate?
  70 2012-04-02 02:44:18 <gmaxwell> ozcoin had a block race, but it appears to have won.
  71 2012-04-02 02:44:27 <gmaxwell> (lets see if a fork forms...)
  72 2012-04-02 02:45:35 <doublec> copumpkin: I assumed it was "here we go again, ozcoins last block was orphaned, looks like this one will be too"
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  75 2012-04-02 02:45:59 <copumpkin> oh okay
  76 2012-04-02 02:46:50 <gmaxwell> oh.. interesting!
  77 2012-04-02 02:46:55 <gmaxwell> both side have been extended.
  78 2012-04-02 02:47:37 <doublec> that makes for a confusing block list
  79 2012-04-02 02:47:50 <luke-jr> O.o
  80 2012-04-02 02:48:43 <da2ce7> lawl: https://twitter.com/#!/da2ce7/status/186645872933736449
  81 2012-04-02 02:48:47 <Graet> gmaxwell, look at blockchain.info now
  82 2012-04-02 02:48:53 <Graet> there are dupes everywhere
  83 2012-04-02 02:49:09 <gmaxwell> Again, MM is involved.
  84 2012-04-02 02:49:23 <gmaxwell> :-/
  85 2012-04-02 02:49:34 <Graet> http://blockchain.info/orphaned-blocks
  86 2012-04-02 02:49:37 <Graet> this is bullshit
  87 2012-04-02 02:49:38 <gmaxwell> Graet: what code are you running?
  88 2012-04-02 02:50:17 <Graet> checking
  89 2012-04-02 02:50:17 <doublec> so a 3 block fork again?
  90 2012-04-02 02:50:26 <luke-jr> someone wake up p2k :p
  91 2012-04-02 02:50:31 <gmaxwell> And again starting with Graet.
  92 2012-04-02 02:50:41 <gmaxwell> And again with MM extending Graet's earlier chain.
  93 2012-04-02 02:50:55 <luke-jr> is there anything wrong with Graet's block, per human analysis?
  94 2012-04-02 02:51:07 <doublec> is MM connected directly to Graet and getting their blocks first to build on
  95 2012-04-02 02:51:21 <luke-jr> doublec: Graet's finding the blocks first
  96 2012-04-02 02:51:35 <doublec> luke-jr: right, then MM builds on that
  97 2012-04-02 02:51:39 <gmaxwell> 04/02/12 02:22:15 ERROR: ConnectInputs() : 4005d6bea3 P2SH VerifySignature failed
  98 2012-04-02 02:51:43 <gmaxwell> 04/02/12 02:22:15 InvalidChainFound: invalid block=00000000000001bd778c  height=173957  work=281775367106871011598
  99 2012-04-02 02:51:53 <gmaxwell> Ahem.
 100 2012-04-02 02:52:08 <copumpkin> hmm
 101 2012-04-02 02:52:59 <luke-jr> http://blockchain.info/tx-index/3618498/4005d6bea3a93fb72f006d23e2685b85069d270cb57d15f0c057ef2d5e3f78d2
 102 2012-04-02 02:53:01 <luke-jr> wtf?
 103 2012-04-02 02:53:05 <luke-jr> input: OP_1 029c7187ecea7f09146820075c3a8de5d33ffbc293b63228ea1667c8d3796aff3f OP_1 OP_CHECKMULTISIG
 104 2012-04-02 02:53:21 <gmaxwell> Graet: I bet you if you keep mining those obviously broken blocks you can get people to chip in to replace the lost income since every time you do you manage to make a couple other miners extend your crap chain.
 105 2012-04-02 02:54:13 <nanotube> haha
 106 2012-04-02 02:54:20 <Graet> ohy ffrs
 107 2012-04-02 02:54:49 <forsetifox> Is that Austrailian for "Oh, $hit"?
 108 2012-04-02 02:54:53 <luke-jr> is e8c300c87986efa84c37c0519929019ef86eb5b4 the hash160 of 1?
 109 2012-04-02 02:55:00 <copumpkin> forsetifox: I think so
 110 2012-04-02 02:57:52 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: you have non-p2sh nodes running.
 111 2012-04-02 02:58:02 <gmaxwell> ?
 112 2012-04-02 02:58:04 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: are they really Deepbit?
 113 2012-04-02 02:58:09 <gmaxwell> Yea, fair point.
 114 2012-04-02 02:58:15 <luke-jr> I think MM is still relaying via Deepbit sometimes
 115 2012-04-02 02:59:33 <gmaxwell> Well, these blocks don't look like MM— they have txns (obviously since they're carring the bad one)
 116 2012-04-02 02:59:44 <gmaxwell> But yea, probably not deepbit.
 117 2012-04-02 02:59:51 <luke-jr> oh, true
 118 2012-04-02 02:59:56 <luke-jr> actaulyl
 119 2012-04-02 03:00:08 <luke-jr> the fact that deepbit relayed the blocks means deepbit is broken
 120 2012-04-02 03:00:10 <luke-jr> I think
 121 2012-04-02 03:00:35 <luke-jr> sounding like *some* backport has issues?
 122 2012-04-02 03:00:37 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: he may have just updated his relay nodes.
 123 2012-04-02 03:00:57 <gmaxwell> er NOT upgraded.
 124 2012-04-02 03:01:04 <gmaxwell> sorry. I'm tired apparently.
 125 2012-04-02 03:01:06 <luke-jr> maybe
 126 2012-04-02 03:01:15 <etotheipi_> luke-jr, isn't that script failing due to the OP_CHECKMULTISIG bug?
 127 2012-04-02 03:01:25 <etotheipi_> it needs an extra op-code at the beginning
 128 2012-04-02 03:01:44 <luke-jr> etotheipi_: it has one?
 129 2012-04-02 03:01:59 <etotheipi_> is the OP_1 PUBKEY OP_1 declaring 1-of-1
 130 2012-04-02 03:02:12 <etotheipi_> *isn't *?
 131 2012-04-02 03:02:54 <luke-jr> hmm
 132 2012-04-02 03:03:01 <luke-jr> yeah, how is that getting into *any* blocks? ;/
 133 2012-04-02 03:03:20 <luke-jr> 0day vuln in BIP16 backport?
 134 2012-04-02 03:03:21 <copumpkin> so Graet occasionally spits out a bad block?
 135 2012-04-02 03:03:55 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: no, all of his blocks are bad.
 136 2012-04-02 03:04:03 <copumpkin> how has nobody noticed that?
 137 2012-04-02 03:04:06 <gmaxwell> Because he keeps trying to reinsert http://blockchain.info/tx-index/3618498/4005d6bea3a93fb72f006d23e2685b85069d270cb57d15f0c057ef2d5e3f78d2
 138 2012-04-02 03:04:10 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: because he's only had two
 139 2012-04-02 03:04:14 <copumpkin> oh
 140 2012-04-02 03:04:20 <gmaxwell> And I looked at the first one and missed the transaction.
 141 2012-04-02 03:04:36 <etotheipi_> luke-jr, nm -- it's on the signature list you need the extra OP_0
 142 2012-04-02 03:04:39 <copumpkin> but blockchain.info says it's okay! it's even in green
 143 2012-04-02 03:04:39 <gmaxwell> Unfortunately he's not responded about _what_ code he's actually running.
 144 2012-04-02 03:04:59 <luke-jr> etotheipi_: that IS the scriptSig
 145 2012-04-02 03:05:19 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: blockchain.info is only very mildly smart.
 146 2012-04-02 03:05:37 <copumpkin> ah, so it doesn't have the full set of checks that it should?
 147 2012-04-02 03:06:24 <gmaxwell> I expect it shows everything as green.
 148 2012-04-02 03:06:51 <gmaxwell> I like how it says it has 5 confirmations.
 149 2012-04-02 03:07:13 <copumpkin> there's a list of things it rejected, though
 150 2012-04-02 03:07:14 <copumpkin> http://blockchain.info/rejected
 151 2012-04-02 03:07:25 <copumpkin> so I'd assume it isn't just accepting everything
 152 2012-04-02 03:07:53 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: all due to ConnectInputs failed .
 153 2012-04-02 03:08:13 <copumpkin> yeah
 154 2012-04-02 03:08:35 <gmaxwell> Graet: it would be really great if you'd tell us exactly what code you're running.
 155 2012-04-02 03:09:21 <gmaxwell> fwiw,
 156 2012-04-02 03:09:22 <gmaxwell> 04/01/12 14:56:41  195.72.201.1:8333  got inventory: tx 4005d6bea3a93fb72f00  new
 157 2012-04-02 03:09:25 <gmaxwell> 04/01/12 14:56:41 askfor tx 4005d6bea3a93fb72f00   0
 158 2012-04-02 03:09:28 <gmaxwell> 04/01/12 14:56:41  195.72.201.1:8333 sending getdata: tx 4005d6bea3a93fb72f00
 159 2012-04-02 03:09:31 <gmaxwell> 04/01/12 14:56:41 04/01/12 14:56:41 sending: getdata (37 bytes)
 160 2012-04-02 03:09:33 <gmaxwell> 04/01/12 14:56:42 04/01/12 14:56:42 received: tx (123 bytes)
 161 2012-04-02 03:09:36 <gmaxwell> 04/01/12 14:56:42 ERROR: AcceptToMemoryPool() : nonstandard transaction input
 162 2012-04-02 03:09:39 <gmaxwell> is the first time I saw that txn.
 163 2012-04-02 03:09:42 <copumpkin> ;;seen roconnor
 164 2012-04-02 03:09:42 <gribble> roconnor was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 2 weeks, 5 days, 8 hours, 19 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: <roconnor> gavinandresen: given it a very quick glance, it all seems plausible.  I've been trying to figure how to anonymize transactions using homomorphic encryption for a little while.
 165 2012-04-02 03:09:58 <luke-jr> I don't see how4005d6bea3a93fb72f006d23e2685b85069d270cb57d15f0c057ef2d5e3f78d2 could ever be valid
 166 2012-04-02 03:10:47 <Graet> gmaxwell, as soon as i can i will
 167 2012-04-02 03:10:56 <Graet> shutdown mining for now
 168 2012-04-02 03:10:58 <Graet> :(
 169 2012-04-02 03:11:38 <luke-jr> :/
 170 2012-04-02 03:11:41 <gmaxwell> unfortunately I don't have my .19 node running at the moment, so I can't see if it'll accept it.
 171 2012-04-02 03:12:20 <luke-jr> can we get the raw txn data anywhere?
 172 2012-04-02 03:12:55 <bitfoo> this is the best I could find: https://blockchain.info/tx-index/3618498/4005d6bea3a93fb72f006d23e2685b85069d270cb57d15f0c057ef2d5e3f78d2?show_adv=true
 173 2012-04-02 03:13:18 MrJiffy has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 174 2012-04-02 03:13:33 MrJiffy has joined
 175 2012-04-02 03:13:42 <luke-jr> we should get gavin or tcatm to send out an alert about now imo
 176 2012-04-02 03:13:58 <gmaxwell> huh?
 177 2012-04-02 03:13:59 <gmaxwell> No way.
 178 2012-04-02 03:14:02 <luke-jr> the risk of high-confirmation double-spends seems high
 179 2012-04-02 03:14:09 <gmaxwell> What would the alert say?
 180 2012-04-02 03:14:21 <luke-jr> not sure :/
 181 2012-04-02 03:14:26 <gmaxwell> I don't see any reason to think that the risk of high confirmation double-spends is high.
 182 2012-04-02 03:14:34 <luke-jr> but someone could easily use this situation to get a double-spend in
 183 2012-04-02 03:14:51 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: spend the output of the invalid txn
 184 2012-04-02 03:14:56 <doublec> gmaxwell: I have an old node running that asked for that transaction but didn't add to the memory pool due to not enough fees
 185 2012-04-02 03:15:08 <doublec> if I understand the debug.log correctly
 186 2012-04-02 03:15:47 <gmaxwell> I just started up .19 but it'll take a bit to sync up the chain.
 187 2012-04-02 03:15:57 <gmaxwell> (up to 100k now)
 188 2012-04-02 03:16:27 <gmaxwell> All my nodes that heard it rejected it.. but they're all ~0.6 vintage git trunk of some version or another.
 189 2012-04-02 03:16:36 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: check your logs?
 190 2012-04-02 03:16:47 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: no sign of it in Eligius's logs at all
 191 2012-04-02 03:16:50 <doublec> gmaxwell: http://pastebin.com/1RbeYVZJ
 192 2012-04-02 03:17:15 <gmaxwell> doublec: indeed, what version is that node?
 193 2012-04-02 03:17:16 <doublec> gmaxwell: running bitcoin version 31900
 194 2012-04-02 03:17:43 <gmaxwell> okay thats not helpful, in 319 the fees check is right after connect.
 195 2012-04-02 03:18:32 <gmaxwell> oh actually no..
 196 2012-04-02 03:21:43 <gmaxwell> so.. yea.. that error is after signature validation.. so...
 197 2012-04-02 03:23:49 <gmaxwell> I've compiled 0.3.19 without the fees. Lets see if it takes it.. (if it hears it. :( )
 198 2012-04-02 03:24:05 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: you're probably onto something with the voting-but-not-supporting thing actually
 199 2012-04-02 03:24:33 <luke-jr> no mentions of coinbaseflags or coinbaseaux in ecoinpool src
 200 2012-04-02 03:24:56 <luke-jr> which means p2k would have had to configure the flag in it independently from bitcoind
 201 2012-04-02 03:33:47 JZavala has joined
 202 2012-04-02 03:43:19 <gmaxwell> okay, Just an update.
 203 2012-04-02 03:43:28 <gmaxwell> My hypothesis is currently:
 204 2012-04-02 03:43:52 <gmaxwell> blockchain.info is being "smart" with p2sh transactions: it's decoding the inner script and displaying that instead of the real script.
 205 2012-04-02 03:44:27 <gmaxwell> ... And, with that assumption: the TXN in question is a really a p2sh spend although it doesn't look like one on blockchain.info.
 206 2012-04-02 03:44:57 <gmaxwell> Which is consistent with how my nodes rejected it: They say it fails full validation but it passes non-p2sh validation. Also consistent with it passing validation for doublec's 0.3.19.
 207 2012-04-02 03:45:33 <gmaxwell> The reason it fails is because the inner script (that we're seeing on blockchain.info) can't possibly be right. And couldn't possibly pass our validation code.
 208 2012-04-02 03:46:46 <gmaxwell> The only open question is to why ozcoin would accept that transaction. My theory is that ozcoin isn't really validating p2sh for some reason. Perhaps it just missing the code. As luke points out— the pool software it uses couldn't pass through the flag. So I can only assume the flag is hardcoded.
 209 2012-04-02 03:47:14 <Graet> yep thats why i'm trying to get onbto p2k but its night in eu
 210 2012-04-02 03:47:36 <gmaxwell> Graet: is there any chance you had updated code but hadn't restarted your node?
 211 2012-04-02 03:47:57 <Graet> p2k did restart when he patched
 212 2012-04-02 03:48:11 <Graet> i remember announcing it in the irc chan
 213 2012-04-02 03:48:21 <gmaxwell> Perhaps some chance he started the wrong copy up? (e.g. do you have multiple versions laying around?)
 214 2012-04-02 03:48:58 <Graet> not on the mining nodes
 215 2012-04-02 03:49:16 <Graet> we just have an empty bitcoiond just for mining
 216 2012-04-02 03:49:29 <Graet> empty as in no coins ever
 217 2012-04-02 03:50:42 <gmaxwell> the fact that you're the only "p2sh" node that extended that fork at least suggests that it's some problem specific to you. (whew)
 218 2012-04-02 03:50:50 <Graet> yes
 219 2012-04-02 03:51:03 <Graet> thast why i turned our nodes off until its resolved
 220 2012-04-02 03:52:50 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: timmerov opened issue 1024 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1024>
 221 2012-04-02 03:58:10 <nanotube> ooh, round issue number!
 222 2012-04-02 03:59:06 <gmaxwell> nanotube: geek  (I thought that too)
 223 2012-04-02 04:02:21 <nanotube> lol
 224 2012-04-02 04:02:53 <nanotube> i think it's fair to say that P(geek|hanging out on #bitcoin-dev) >> P(geek) :)
 225 2012-04-02 04:03:12 <doublec> Graet: do you use that erlang pool software?
 226 2012-04-02 04:03:18 <Graet> yes
 227 2012-04-02 04:03:21 <Graet> ecoinpool
 228 2012-04-02 04:03:26 <doublec> does that use getmemorypool and create it's own blocks?
 229 2012-04-02 04:03:35 <Graet> yes
 230 2012-04-02 04:05:05 <doublec> I don't see anything in their git repository about bip 16 support
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 233 2012-04-02 04:08:39 <Graet> p2k patched our bitcoinds, he has been busy on another (paying) project so he may not have updated yet
 234 2012-04-02 04:10:49 <gmaxwell> doublec: thus my guess above about the flag being hardcoded
 235 2012-04-02 04:11:02 <doublec> right
 236 2012-04-02 04:11:34 <gmaxwell> Graet: back when there was that issue with nodes getting orphaned a few weeks ago due to the p2sh taking effect too early for them, were you one of the impacted parties?
 237 2012-04-02 04:11:45 <Graet> no
 238 2012-04-02 04:12:10 <Graet> but we changed the deadline thing before that
 239 2012-04-02 04:12:29 <gmaxwell> Hm, okay. (my thinking there was if you were perhaps it was solved by turning it off completely, or incorrectly updating the deadline)
 240 2012-04-02 04:13:15 <Graet> someone thought one was us, but it was a mistake
 241 2012-04-02 04:13:24 <Graet> we made it thgru that one opk ;)
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 252 2012-04-02 05:27:44 <DBordello> Something appears to be up, multiple people are reporting bitcoin-qt not syncing this last block
 253 2012-04-02 05:28:08 <SomeoneWeird> probably because of the retarded split
 254 2012-04-02 05:28:29 <denisx> hi
 255 2012-04-02 05:28:48 <denisx> my bitcoind also not accepting this last block #173965
 256 2012-04-02 05:28:59 <DBordello> ooh, did BIP XX just go live?
 257 2012-04-02 05:29:13 <da2ce7> DBordello: yep.
 258 2012-04-02 05:29:15 <copumpkin> I just installed bitcoin-qt on a different computer and it's been stuck on a block from 241 days for ages now. Is the progress reporting messed up or is something wrong?
 259 2012-04-02 05:29:29 <copumpkin> (syncing for the first time)
 260 2012-04-02 05:30:48 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: whats the current height? (mouseover)
 261 2012-04-02 05:31:04 <copumpkin> 139647
 262 2012-04-02 05:31:08 <copumpkin> it's been there for ages
 263 2012-04-02 05:32:15 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: so, if the peer you were pulling from stops feeding (for whatever reason) it will get stuck until the next block on the network.
 264 2012-04-02 05:32:22 <gmaxwell> And there hasn't been a block for an hour.
 265 2012-04-02 05:32:26 <copumpkin> ah, fair enough
 266 2012-04-02 05:32:38 <copumpkin> gotta love these dry spells
 267 2012-04-02 05:33:00 <copumpkin> denisx: are you sure that isn't just bitcoin-qt reporting it's out of sync after a while, because there have been no blocks recently?
 268 2012-04-02 05:33:02 <copumpkin> I've seen mine do that
 269 2012-04-02 05:33:33 <twobitcoins> Block 173965 contains a funny transaction 4005d6bea3a93fb72f006d23e2685b85069d270cb57d15f0c057ef2d5e3f78d2 that keeps ending up in orphaned blocks.
 270 2012-04-02 05:33:33 <gmaxwell> denisx: why do you say its not accepting 173965?
 271 2012-04-02 05:33:42 <denisx> I see in debug.log that other peers have 173965
 272 2012-04-02 05:33:47 <twobitcoins> I don't quite understand what is up with that transaction and why it is causing forking though.
 273 2012-04-02 05:33:57 <gmaxwell> oh because it isn't.
 274 2012-04-02 05:33:59 <gmaxwell> Thats fine.
 275 2012-04-02 05:34:11 <gmaxwell> 173965 will get orphaned and life will go on.
 276 2012-04-02 05:34:52 <gmaxwell> Block from 50 BTC, I mentioned them in my eulogy.
 277 2012-04-02 05:35:10 <denisx> gmaxwell: I hope you'r right
 278 2012-04-02 05:35:16 * copumpkin sends Graet 100 btc to compensate him for the lost blocks
 279 2012-04-02 05:35:23 <copumpkin> that's how it works, right?
 280 2012-04-02 05:35:42 <gmaxwell> denisx: I've been right the ~5 other times its happened today.
 281 2012-04-02 05:36:13 <gmaxwell> denisx: the other peers that have 173965 are just nodes that aren't upgraded to enforce BIP16.
 282 2012-04-02 05:36:37 <denisx> which versions have BIP16?
 283 2012-04-02 05:36:58 <gmaxwell> 0.6 and older versions that have the backports appilied.
 284 2012-04-02 05:37:03 <gmaxwell> applied too.
 285 2012-04-02 05:37:20 <DBordello> wait, shouldn't it be impossible for the BIP 16 chain to get BEHIND the non BIP16 chain?
 286 2012-04-02 05:37:36 <DBordello> won't older clients reject BIP16 transactions?
 287 2012-04-02 05:37:43 <denisx> this is a hard cut
 288 2012-04-02 05:37:47 <gmaxwell> DBordello: You ... sound profoundly confused.
 289 2012-04-02 05:37:49 <denisx> a lot of pools will maybe die
 290 2012-04-02 05:37:52 <gmaxwell> There aren't two chains.
 291 2012-04-02 05:37:59 <DBordello> gmaxwell, I am, I am reading the wiki :)
 292 2012-04-02 05:37:59 <gmaxwell> denisx: almost all of them were upgraded.
 293 2012-04-02 05:38:13 <DBordello> gmaxwell, well, we can split
 294 2012-04-02 05:38:16 <gmaxwell> The named pools that didn't appear upgraded that I could find were Donate@Home, BTC Warp, Arsbitcoin, 50BTC, nmcbit, and Polmine
 295 2012-04-02 05:38:44 <gmaxwell> DBordello: not really, we'll orphan blocks if they contain invalid BIP16 spends. But they won't form their own fork at least not persistantly.
 296 2012-04-02 05:39:10 <gmaxwell> DBordello: the chain produced by the supermajority of BIP16 nodes is acceptable to the non-BIP16 nodes.
 297 2012-04-02 05:39:38 <DBordello> gmaxwell, but there are blocks that non-BIP 16 nodes will accept but the supermajority of BIP 16 nodes will orphan?
 298 2012-04-02 05:39:38 <gmaxwell> DBordello: the non-BIP16 nodes however, may produce/extend a chain which is not acceptable to the BIP16 nodes, and if they do those blocks will be orphaned.
 299 2012-04-02 05:39:43 <copumpkin> what would have to happen for the tree to fork permanently and break into separate currencies? is that even possible without a major implementation fork?
 300 2012-04-02 05:39:45 <gmaxwell> Correct.
 301 2012-04-02 05:39:49 <denisx> so if I find another 173965 the BIP16 pools will accept that?
 302 2012-04-02 05:39:52 <DBordello> gmaxwell, what kind of transaction would cause that?
 303 2012-04-02 05:40:07 <gmaxwell> denisx: sure, so long as it's a BIP16 valid block.
 304 2012-04-02 05:40:15 <gmaxwell> DBordello: 4005d6bea3a93fb72f006d23e2685b85069d270cb57d15f0c057ef2d5e3f78d2
 305 2012-04-02 05:40:23 <gmaxwell> https://blockchain.info/tx-index/3618498/4005d6bea3a93fb72f006d23e2685b85069d270cb57d15f0c057ef2d5e3f78d2?show_adv=true
 306 2012-04-02 05:40:25 <denisx> iam running 60006
 307 2012-04-02 05:40:49 <gmaxwell> unfortunately blockchain.info is too smart for our own good: it's decoding the BIP16 input there and only displaying the serialized script.
 308 2012-04-02 05:40:57 <gmaxwell> And that script is invalid as the day is long.
 309 2012-04-02 05:41:18 <DBordello> ./bitcoind gettransaction 4005d6bea3a93fb72f006d23e2685b85069d270cb57d15f0c057ef2d5e3f78d2
 310 2012-04-02 05:41:18 <DBordello> error: {"code":-5,"message":"No information available about transaction"}
 311 2012-04-02 05:41:25 <copumpkin> doesn't blockexplorer show it?
 312 2012-04-02 05:41:30 <gmaxwell> DBordello: yes, your upgraded node doesn't have it.
 313 2012-04-02 05:41:37 <DBordello> gmaxwell, interesting :)
 314 2012-04-02 05:41:56 <gmaxwell> Pre-BIP16 nodes accept it because they don't parse the seralized inner script, which is where the invalidity is.
 315 2012-04-02 05:42:22 <DBordello> ah
 316 2012-04-02 05:42:27 <gmaxwell> As you can see from that link, that txn has been mined 5 times today.
 317 2012-04-02 05:42:31 <DBordello> who is the jerk who made this transaction?
 318 2012-04-02 05:42:52 <copumpkin> DBordello: let me just write a VB GUI to find out
 319 2012-04-02 05:42:54 <gmaxwell> DBordello: it actually could have been an accident — its invalid in a way that could have arisen by mistake.
 320 2012-04-02 05:43:03 <DBordello> copumpkin, make sure it blames luke
 321 2012-04-02 05:43:48 <gmaxwell> (the reason it's invalid is actually a well known bug in bitcoin— checkmultisig pops consumes too many elements... so to use it you have to insert some padding, that txn lacks the padding.)
 322 2012-04-02 05:44:00 <gmaxwell> (it's not a bug that can be fixed without creating forking risk)
 323 2012-04-02 05:44:10 <copumpkin> boo :P
 324 2012-04-02 05:44:36 <gmaxwell> It's harmless in any case.
 325 2012-04-02 05:44:36 <forsetifox> Never seen that network graph look like that before. http://www.bitcoinwatch.com/
 326 2012-04-02 05:44:58 <denisx> someone found another 173965
 327 2012-04-02 05:44:59 <copumpkin> gmaxwell: but it makes every software engineer cringe :)
 328 2012-04-02 05:45:12 <gmaxwell> denisx: as expected.
 329 2012-04-02 05:45:30 <gmaxwell> Deepbit.
 330 2012-04-02 05:46:01 <gmaxwell> Now the fun bit will be the mysteryminer will extend the dead chain and burn a couple blocks uselessly.
 331 2012-04-02 05:46:18 <DBordello> gmaxwell, ah hah!  That should silence him for a while
 332 2012-04-02 05:46:32 <gmaxwell> DBordello: he's lost like .. 7 or 8 blocks today, I think.
 333 2012-04-02 05:46:42 <DBordello> gmaxwell, good, maybe he won't notice :)
 334 2012-04-02 05:46:47 <ELT> lol
 335 2012-04-02 05:46:55 <DBordello> blockchain.info is too awesome.
 336 2012-04-02 05:48:33 Slix` has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 337 2012-04-02 05:48:50 <DBordello> It looks like deepbit had 173948 orphaned?  How come?
 338 2012-04-02 05:49:19 <gmaxwell> DBordello: not a deepbit blocks.
 339 2012-04-02 05:49:30 <DBordello> gmaxwell, ah, okay, the "relayed by" fooled me
 340 2012-04-02 05:49:41 <gmaxwell> yea. ::nods::
 341 2012-04-02 05:49:50 <Cory> Does Deepbit report their blocks somewhere?
 342 2012-04-02 05:49:59 <gmaxwell> or if it is, it didn't show on the deepbit website, and it doesn't have p2sh in its coinbase like all the ones that show on the deepbit website.
 343 2012-04-02 05:50:07 <Cory> Ah.
 344 2012-04-02 05:50:31 <gmaxwell> (and thats why it was orphaned— it included 4005d6bea3a93fb72f006d23e2685b85069d270cb57d15f0c057ef2d5e3f78d2)
 345 2012-04-02 05:50:45 <DBordello> Have we had any multiple-block forks orphaned?
 346 2012-04-02 05:50:56 <gmaxwell> sure.
 347 2012-04-02 05:51:01 <gmaxwell> There was one with four blocks.
 348 2012-04-02 05:51:29 <Cory> It kept pace for four blocks?
 349 2012-04-02 05:51:38 <gmaxwell> thats how the MM is getting so screwed.. he doesn't mine any txn himself so he can't make an invalid block, but he can extend an invalid chain when someone else does!
 350 2012-04-02 05:52:07 <DBordello> gmaxwell, hah
 351 2012-04-02 05:52:22 <gmaxwell> Cory: the first was ozcoin then three MM blocks. (he had a lucky run)
 352 2012-04-02 05:52:31 <Cory> Yikes.
 353 2012-04-02 05:52:41 <gmaxwell> he was _late_ on all of them but you only switch when the other chain is longer.
 354 2012-04-02 05:52:49 <gmaxwell> Not where there is a tine.
 355 2012-04-02 05:52:51 <gmaxwell> er tie.
 356 2012-04-02 05:53:04 <gmaxwell> so he kept extending the dead chain because the other one wasn't longer yet.
 357 2012-04-02 05:53:05 <Cory> Yeah. Soon all of the pools losing money will stop accepting those transactions, though.
 358 2012-04-02 05:53:25 <gmaxwell> nah, any pool losing money except ozcoin is dead at the wheel.
 359 2012-04-02 05:53:26 <DBordello> I bet this fixes itself in a hurry
 360 2012-04-02 05:53:33 roomservice has joined
 361 2012-04-02 05:53:41 <DBordello> What is the deal with ozcoin?
 362 2012-04-02 05:53:52 <DBordello> Graet doesn't strike me as someone to get caught by surprise
 363 2012-04-02 05:54:23 <gmaxwell> He thought he was upgraded. But it looks like the poolserver he uses can't actually copy the p2sh coinbase flag from bitcoin so it was simply hardcoded.
 364 2012-04-02 05:54:41 <gmaxwell> This may have been masking the running of non-p2sh node software.
 365 2012-04-02 05:54:51 <gmaxwell> luke-jr was looking into it.
 366 2012-04-02 05:55:42 <gmaxwell> us figuring out the problem was delayed by the fact that blockchain.info is effectively disguising p2sh transactions. :(
 367 2012-04-02 05:55:50 <denisx> deepbit found another one
 368 2012-04-02 05:55:50 <DBordello> ah, he was running the erlang poolserver.  I have played with it, it is pretty slick
 369 2012-04-02 05:56:33 fiddur1 has joined
 370 2012-04-02 05:56:36 <gmaxwell> denisx: yea, there you go. fork resolved.
 371 2012-04-02 05:56:45 <gmaxwell> it shouldn't get any longer.
 372 2012-04-02 05:56:55 <gmaxwell> (well, unless someone else just found a block now)
 373 2012-04-02 05:57:27 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: sync moving now?
 374 2012-04-02 05:57:45 <copumpkin> yep, thanks :)
 375 2012-04-02 05:58:01 Tril has joined
 376 2012-04-02 05:58:07 <ThomasV> gmaxwell: so the MM just lost 150 btc?
 377 2012-04-02 05:58:43 <gmaxwell> ThomasV: I don't know what the total is... I think he's lost more like 6 blocks today.
 378 2012-04-02 05:59:03 <gmaxwell> though he won't keep bleeding at quite that rate now that ozcoin is offline until its fixed.
 379 2012-04-02 05:59:26 <ThomasV> but he probably doesn't pay for electricity (if he is a botnet)
 380 2012-04-02 05:59:37 <Tril> it's normal to see tons of ORPHAN BLOCK when downloading the chain these days?
 381 2012-04-02 06:03:43 <Tril> oh I think it's just downloading them out of order?
 382 2012-04-02 06:05:13 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1025 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1025>
 383 2012-04-02 06:07:57 <gmaxwell> Tril: you got it!
 384 2012-04-02 06:14:31 toffoo has joined
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 386 2012-04-02 06:21:51 da2ce7 has joined
 387 2012-04-02 06:23:45 <gmaxwell> Blockexplorer is broken.
 388 2012-04-02 06:23:45 <gmaxwell> http://blockexplorer.com/block/00000000000001d181b4842f31c7c0d56b36f0da90bbc78a657b2eefa97d3d11
 389 2012-04-02 06:23:50 <gmaxwell> ^ it says that block doesn't exist.
 390 2012-04-02 06:24:05 <nanotube> also, there is no spoon.
 391 2012-04-02 06:24:06 <gmaxwell> It does, it's 958 http://blockchain.info/block-index/202232/00000000000001d181b4842f31c7c0d56b36f0da90bbc78a657b2eefa97d3d11 in the main chain.
 392 2012-04-02 06:24:37 <gmaxwell> And, also, it reveals that deepbit's stats page is based on blockexplorer... since the stats page is wrong about that block.
 393 2012-04-02 06:24:54 <forsetifox> 173970, another orphan.
 394 2012-04-02 06:25:10 <denisx> no
 395 2012-04-02 06:25:14 <ThomasV> nanotube: there is no spoon but there is a fork
 396 2012-04-02 06:25:28 <nanotube> ThomasV: ha! :)
 397 2012-04-02 06:25:31 <gmaxwell> forsetifox: yea. that was pointed out before in #bitcoin
 398 2012-04-02 06:25:54 <denisx> oh, yes
 399 2012-04-02 06:26:07 <gmaxwell> forsetifox: any block that contains https://blockchain.info/tx-index/3618498/4005d6bea3a93fb72f006d23e2685b85069d270cb57d15f0c057ef2d5e3f78d2?show_adv=true will be orphaned.
 400 2012-04-02 06:26:34 <gmaxwell> 'included in blocks' field gives you that nice graveyard.
 401 2012-04-02 06:27:04 <forsetifox> Ah, that's the strange one that ozcoin was getting.
 402 2012-04-02 06:28:12 <forsetifox> That hard coded opcode is causing the orphans gmaxwell?
 403 2012-04-02 06:28:22 <gmaxwell> ???
 404 2012-04-02 06:28:36 <gmaxwell> The transaction is invalid.
 405 2012-04-02 06:28:59 <forsetifox> What is it that's creating the orphans?
 406 2012-04-02 06:29:19 <gmaxwell> It's a p2sh spend (which you can't tell, because blockchain.info only shows you the inner script), and it misuses checkmultisig. The script there fails to validate.
 407 2012-04-02 06:29:27 <forsetifox> Gotcha.
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 410 2012-04-02 06:37:56 skeledrew has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 411 2012-04-02 06:39:54 <gmaxwell> sipa: is it possible that the people with the crashing wallets have the wrong passphrase... but its one that makes the private key decrypt to a null byte first... which is then read as zero length... and then things go pear-shaped?
 412 2012-04-02 06:40:13 <gmaxwell> (I ask because I haven't spent as much time staring at that code today as you have and I'm about to go to bed)
 413 2012-04-02 06:40:49 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 414 2012-04-02 06:44:56 <forsetifox> gmaxwell. Are you still here?
 415 2012-04-02 06:45:03 <gmaxwell> Yes.
 416 2012-04-02 06:45:11 <forsetifox> Why do some of the blocks only have one transaction?
 417 2012-04-02 06:45:32 <gmaxwell> Because sometimes there just aren't any transactions waiting.
 418 2012-04-02 06:45:37 <forsetifox> Ah.
 419 2012-04-02 06:45:44 <Habbie> and some miners just don't bother with including transactions
 420 2012-04-02 06:45:46 <gmaxwell> Especially when blocks come in rapid succession.
 421 2012-04-02 06:46:09 <gmaxwell> And as Habbie says— well, at least one appears to not include transactions.
 422 2012-04-02 06:46:48 <gmaxwell> There are also some (e.g. eligius) which won't mine zero fee transactions. (though eligius will mine transactions with infinitesmal fee, or ones handed to eligius by special arrangement)
 423 2012-04-02 06:50:49 <forsetifox> Can you explain "mining transactions"?
 424 2012-04-02 06:52:08 <Tril> forsetifox: it means they will attempt to put the transaction in a block
 425 2012-04-02 06:52:20 <Tril> if it does not have a fee, they will disregard it
 426 2012-04-02 06:52:38 <forsetifox> I think I get it.
 427 2012-04-02 06:53:03 <forsetifox> When I transfer funds to a Gox or whatever a pool has to pick that up and apply it to one of thier blocks?
 428 2012-04-02 06:53:22 <Tril> yes
 429 2012-04-02 06:53:26 <forsetifox> Sweet.
 430 2012-04-02 06:53:35 <forsetifox> Thanks for the information guys. =3
 431 2012-04-02 06:55:17 <forsetifox> So if someone is only mining transactions but not blocks how do they get the transactions into a block?
 432 2012-04-02 06:55:52 <Tril> you are always mining blocks.. you might want to check out the wiki.
 433 2012-04-02 06:55:59 <forsetifox> k
 434 2012-04-02 06:57:24 nikescar has joined
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 438 2012-04-02 07:15:41 <Graet> is -payscripthashtime=1333238400 obsolete with this 0.6 rc3?
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 442 2012-04-02 07:19:07 <Cory> More orphaned blocks.
 443 2012-04-02 07:19:15 danbri has joined
 444 2012-04-02 07:19:42 h4ckm3 has joined
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 446 2012-04-02 07:39:30 <Graet> ozcoin is back up with 0.6 bitcoin and other nupdates
 447 2012-04-02 07:39:58 <Cory> Yay!
 448 2012-04-02 07:40:40 <da2ce7> :)
 449 2012-04-02 07:40:56 <da2ce7> good on Graet and #ozcoin
 450 2012-04-02 07:41:47 <Graet> :)
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 460 2012-04-02 08:34:03 <[Tycho]> gmaxwell: no.
 461 2012-04-02 08:35:20 underscor has joined
 462 2012-04-02 08:37:12 <Graet> hi [Tycho]
 463 2012-04-02 08:37:16 DBordello has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 464 2012-04-02 08:41:18 <[Tycho]> Graet: hello.
 465 2012-04-02 08:41:47 <Graet> :)
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 474 2012-04-02 09:03:56 <[Tycho]> How that 4005d6be TX should be failed in debug.log ?
 475 2012-04-02 09:04:43 <[Tycho]> It would be better if I disabled mining of P2SH TXes at all...
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 485 2012-04-02 09:17:30 <[Tycho]> Anyone here ?
 486 2012-04-02 09:27:17 <sipa> yes
 487 2012-04-02 09:27:38 <sipa> wow, invalid P2SH spend, mined by ozcoin, and extended by MM?
 488 2012-04-02 09:27:51 <[Tycho]> sipa: should that TX be failed by ConnectInputs or something else ?
 489 2012-04-02 09:29:11 <Graet> 2 times iirc sipa
 490 2012-04-02 09:29:28 <Graet> updated properly now
 491 2012-04-02 09:29:49 <sipa> [Tycho]: by ConnectInputs, I'd say
 492 2012-04-02 09:30:20 <[Tycho]> Heh, shows both branches as orphaned :) https://blockchain.info/orphaned-blocks
 493 2012-04-02 09:31:19 <[Tycho]> I wonder who generates all that failed blocks if it's not OzCoin and MM
 494 2012-04-02 09:31:58 <Graet> p2pool node not updated ;)
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 499 2012-04-02 09:37:36 <TuxBlackEdo> really interesting stuff going on in the blockchain
 500 2012-04-02 09:37:38 <TuxBlackEdo> right?
 501 2012-04-02 09:37:54 <TuxBlackEdo> how does an invalid p2sh spend happen?
 502 2012-04-02 09:38:14 <TuxBlackEdo> and why doesn't the pool reject that transaction
 503 2012-04-02 09:38:18 <TuxBlackEdo> bad code or something?
 504 2012-04-02 09:39:34 <sipa> because it didn't upgrade
 505 2012-04-02 09:40:11 <sipa> that's exactly the problem: most miners reject it, but some don't
 506 2012-04-02 09:42:27 <TuxBlackEdo> the pool didn't update to 0.6.0?
 507 2012-04-02 09:42:42 <sipa> yes
 508 2012-04-02 09:42:52 <sipa> most pools run far from the latest version
 509 2012-04-02 09:43:12 <TuxBlackEdo> so in older versions of bitcoin p2sh spends were allowed?
 510 2012-04-02 09:43:16 <TuxBlackEdo> i am confused
 511 2012-04-02 09:43:38 <_W_> so should we expect incoming drama from miners now not making coin?
 512 2012-04-02 09:44:33 <[Tycho]> Graet: no, they don't have that much hashrate
 513 2012-04-02 09:44:41 <sipa> TuxBlackEdo: of, course BIP16 is only implemented in 0.6.0
 514 2012-04-02 09:47:51 <TuxBlackEdo> why isn't a p2sh transaction backwards compatiable in 0.6.0?
 515 2012-04-02 09:48:09 <sipa> that's the point: it is backward compatible
 516 2012-04-02 09:48:33 <sipa> the only way to make new features backward compatible is by making sure that old clients accept them
 517 2012-04-02 09:48:42 <sipa> you can only make the rules stricter
 518 2012-04-02 09:50:06 <TuxBlackEdo> so if ozcoin didn't include that p2sh transaction, their block would have been accepted by the network?
 519 2012-04-02 09:50:33 <Graet> yes x 2,
 520 2012-04-02 09:51:28 <TuxBlackEdo> i still don't understand, sipa said "it is backward compatible" yet their block didn't get accepted by the network...?
 521 2012-04-02 09:52:19 <TuxBlackEdo> sorry i am really trying to understand... thanks for trying to explain it to me
 522 2012-04-02 09:52:59 <sipa> TuxBlackEdo: old miners will see every BIP16 transaction as valid, new miners won't
 523 2012-04-02 09:53:22 <sipa> sorry; new miners will accept them only if they are valid BIP16 spends
 524 2012-04-02 09:57:17 <sipa> that way, it's not a problem if not everyone upgrades, as long as the majority does
 525 2012-04-02 09:57:59 <TuxBlackEdo> i am reading the bip16 page on bitcoin.it
 526 2012-04-02 09:58:12 TD has joined
 527 2012-04-02 09:58:46 <sipa> not sure how detailed that principle is explained there, but it's a general rule: if you want a new protocol rule, all it can do it make previously-valid things invalid, and not the other way around
 528 2012-04-02 09:59:34 <sipa> because what if a majority upgraded to allow something that was previously not allowed? older nodes would not accept the longest chain anyway, and end up on a permanent fork
 529 2012-04-02 10:02:16 <[Tycho]> 20 invalids since 01.04, wow
 530 2012-04-02 10:02:29 <TuxBlackEdo> why couldn't the client be written in a way where it would process protocol commands it does understand and ignore the ones it doesn't?
 531 2012-04-02 10:02:51 <sipa> TuxBlackEdo: everyone needs to agree on the blockchain
 532 2012-04-02 10:02:59 <sipa> you can't have anyone who ignores part of it
 533 2012-04-02 10:06:22 Clipse has joined
 534 2012-04-02 10:09:22 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 535 2012-04-02 10:12:30 sje has joined
 536 2012-04-02 10:12:30 sje has quit (Changing host)
 537 2012-04-02 10:12:31 sje has joined
 538 2012-04-02 10:17:19 conman has joined
 539 2012-04-02 10:20:23 <sturles> 20 invalid blocks due to invalid BIP 16 transactions included?
 540 2012-04-02 10:20:48 <[Tycho]> Yes.
 541 2012-04-02 10:21:21 <lh77> is this a problem?
 542 2012-04-02 10:21:45 <sturles> Wow!  Difficulty may even go down a notch then, unless people update fast.
 543 2012-04-02 10:21:54 <conman> pretty sure it will
 544 2012-04-02 10:22:11 <conman> the number of people who mine blindly unattended without thought is clearly high
 545 2012-04-02 10:23:40 <t7> :O
 546 2012-04-02 10:23:43 <t7> quick
 547 2012-04-02 10:30:36 graingert has joined
 548 2012-04-02 10:41:05 yellowhat_ has joined
 549 2012-04-02 10:41:37 yellowhat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 550 2012-04-02 10:41:46 yellowhat_ is now known as yellowhat
 551 2012-04-02 10:46:50 <[Tycho]> Hmm, mtgox fee is low again. Or it's a 1st april joke ?
 552 2012-04-02 10:47:13 <Graet> nah 1st birthday promotion
 553 2012-04-02 10:47:14 <conman> isn't it a bit late for that?
 554 2012-04-02 10:47:38 <conman> april fools I mean
 555 2012-04-02 10:58:19 Joric has joined
 556 2012-04-02 11:05:50 ThomasV has joined
 557 2012-04-02 11:08:27 occulta has joined
 558 2012-04-02 11:13:09 SphericalCow has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 559 2012-04-02 11:14:36 datagutt has joined
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 561 2012-04-02 11:20:05 toffoo has quit ()
 562 2012-04-02 11:24:17 MrJiffy has joined
 563 2012-04-02 11:26:40 <sje> i'm still seeing all my outgoing connections time out - updated to latest git just now and did a clean and rebuild...
 564 2012-04-02 11:26:51 smoothie has quit (Quit: changing servers)
 565 2012-04-02 11:27:07 <sje> is there a log message that would should if my client was just trying to connect to itself? i.e. if my firewall rules were stuffed?
 566 2012-04-02 11:27:22 h4ckm3 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 567 2012-04-02 11:30:14 h4ckm3 has joined
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 570 2012-04-02 11:32:19 smoothie has joined
 571 2012-04-02 11:32:33 h4ckm3 has joined
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 573 2012-04-02 11:33:21 <sje> ffs that was it
 574 2012-04-02 11:33:25 * sje facepalm
 575 2012-04-02 11:34:24 <Joric> yeah
 576 2012-04-02 11:34:39 graingert has left ()
 577 2012-04-02 11:38:40 h4ckm3 has quit (Quit: changing servers)
 578 2012-04-02 11:39:41 h4ckm3 has joined
 579 2012-04-02 11:48:08 imsaguy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 580 2012-04-02 11:48:55 <[Tycho]> nmcbit just did it...
 581 2012-04-02 11:52:04 <Joric> [Tycho], are you hiring? i just figured i'm spending most of the time on bitcoins
 582 2012-04-02 11:53:02 <Joric> cs degree and shit
 583 2012-04-02 11:53:47 <conman> heh
 584 2012-04-02 11:54:08 <coingenuity> lol
 585 2012-04-02 11:54:28 <conman> shame I haven't got a cs degree and shit
 586 2012-04-02 11:54:35 <[Tycho]> No :)
 587 2012-04-02 11:54:37 <coingenuity> [Tycho]: is probably not hiring...since....his stuff runs mostly on autopilot ftw
 588 2012-04-02 11:54:38 <conman> I seem to just have the shit
 589 2012-04-02 11:54:42 MrJiffy has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 590 2012-04-02 11:54:46 <luke-jr> CS degree *is* crap
 591 2012-04-02 11:54:49 <coingenuity> same here, conman
 592 2012-04-02 11:55:00 <conman> not just the shit but tEh shit
 593 2012-04-02 11:55:45 <sje> CS degree is awesome - 4 years drinking beer :)
 594 2012-04-02 11:55:46 * conman keeps staring at opencl docs
 595 2012-04-02 11:56:34 <Graet> i managed to drink beer for more than 4 years, without getting a degree
 596 2012-04-02 11:56:35 <Graet> :P
 597 2012-04-02 11:56:40 <conman> lol
 598 2012-04-02 11:56:44 <sje> ha
 599 2012-04-02 11:57:00 <Graet> now i prefer rum :)
 600 2012-04-02 11:57:05 <sje> yeah i took a bit longer too - no need to rush those things
 601 2012-04-02 11:57:10 * conman prefers cognac
 602 2012-04-02 11:57:11 <Graet> :)
 603 2012-04-02 11:57:31 <sje> i did get my degree in the end but i blame my wife for that
 604 2012-04-02 11:57:33 <Graet> i looki forward to your shout conman :P
 605 2012-04-02 11:57:44 <sje> turns out the psychology people were waiting for me to write something 'nice'
 606 2012-04-02 11:57:45 <conman> gladly
 607 2012-04-02 11:58:42 <luke-jr> I continue to be amazed at all the people posting on the Ars thread "durr, pool is down?"
 608 2012-04-02 11:58:49 <conman> heh yeah
 609 2012-04-02 11:59:09 <Graet> +1 thier irc has been a bit constant too
 610 2012-04-02 11:59:36 <Graet> thanks for the new link to share, the other i was using wasnt so amusing :)
 611 2012-04-02 12:00:13 <Graet> ;;bc,nethash
 612 2012-04-02 12:00:13 <gribble> 11830.262935960041
 613 2012-04-02 12:00:17 h4ckm3 has quit (Quit: changing servers)
 614 2012-04-02 12:00:32 smoothie has quit (Quit: changing servers)
 615 2012-04-02 12:00:40 <conman> has dropped
 616 2012-04-02 12:00:45 <conman> looks like they didn't even have backups set
 617 2012-04-02 12:01:04 <conman> which doesn't surprise if they were mining blindly to begin with
 618 2012-04-02 12:01:11 <Graet> yep
 619 2012-04-02 12:01:14 h4ckm3 has joined
 620 2012-04-02 12:03:05 <Joric> i'm about to celebrate 10 years anniversary from teh graduation this summer
 621 2012-04-02 12:03:29 <Joric> gonna troll them saying i turned into christianity
 622 2012-04-02 12:04:41 <Joric> it's kindof modern now
 623 2012-04-02 12:05:02 <[Tycho]> What happened to ArsBitcoin ?
 624 2012-04-02 12:05:07 h4ckm3 has quit (Client Quit)
 625 2012-04-02 12:05:13 <conman> they did nothing
 626 2012-04-02 12:05:16 <conman> and then it crashed
 627 2012-04-02 12:05:26 <conman> and now it's both down and off the bip16 chain path
 628 2012-04-02 12:06:48 h4ckm3 has joined
 629 2012-04-02 12:07:05 <conman> Burning toad said he was planning on taking it down at some stage
 630 2012-04-02 12:07:11 <conman> looks like his hand was forced  now
 631 2012-04-02 12:09:04 Nicksasa has quit (Read error: No route to host)
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 644 2012-04-02 12:24:30 Joric_ is now known as Joric
 645 2012-04-02 12:30:01 occulta has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
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 651 2012-04-02 13:00:53 <sipa> gmaxwell: any valid encrypted record should decrypt to a 32-byte result
 652 2012-04-02 13:01:07 <sipa> even under a wrong key
 653 2012-04-02 13:07:44 p0s has joined
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 656 2012-04-02 13:13:25 gavinandresen has joined
 657 2012-04-02 13:16:28 <gmaxwell> sipa: yea.. N-am brainfart. I was thinking the keys were in base-58 encoded form, when I should have remembered they weren't just based on their length.
 658 2012-04-02 13:16:56 <user> gavinandresen: my comments here maake sense? https://gist.github.com/830ca16758fb9ad496d7
 659 2012-04-02 13:17:41 <sipa> gavinandresen: time to open 0.7.0's merge windows?
 660 2012-04-02 13:18:06 <gavinandresen> user: yes. Although that document is supposed to be all about 2-party escrow (3-party escrow will be like you describe, involving a website, I think)
 661 2012-04-02 13:18:13 <gavinandresen> sipa: yes
 662 2012-04-02 13:18:55 <gavinandresen> sipa: version number for the merge window period?  0.6.0.99 ?
 663 2012-04-02 13:18:56 <user> ok
 664 2012-04-02 13:19:38 <luke-jr> 0.6.99 makes more sense imo
 665 2012-04-02 13:20:50 <sipa> 0.6.99, indeed, as it will have more features than any stable branch we fork off 0.6.0 now
 666 2012-04-02 13:21:11 <gavinandresen> What new features?  I see... coin control stuff....
 667 2012-04-02 13:21:39 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: get my email? :P
 668 2012-04-02 13:21:49 <sipa> gavinandresen: well, that's not known yet, i just mean: everything in the 0.7 merge window will have new features, why 0.6.x will not
 669 2012-04-02 13:21:56 <sipa> *while
 670 2012-04-02 13:22:41 <gavinandresen> Well, that's what I'm asking: should the next release be 0.6.1, where we do lots of internal clean-ups but no major new features, or 0.7
 671 2012-04-02 13:23:23 <Blitzboom> will 0.7 have multisig tx in the GUI?
 672 2012-04-02 13:24:09 <gavinandresen> Blitzboom: unlikely
 673 2012-04-02 13:24:24 <gavinandresen> Blitzboom: .... but what do you mean when you say 'multisig' ?
 674 2012-04-02 13:24:24 <sipa> gavinandresen: Oh, that's also a possibility; what kind of cleanups were you thinking about?
 675 2012-04-02 13:24:54 <gavinandresen> sipa: there are a bunch of pull requests that are cleanups
 676 2012-04-02 13:25:08 <Blitzboom> transactions that will only be spent when multiple parties agree
 677 2012-04-02 13:25:40 <Blitzboom> what is mainly planned then for the next major release, if i may ask?
 678 2012-04-02 13:25:51 <gavinandresen> Blitzboom: that's what this conversation is about
 679 2012-04-02 13:25:59 <sipa> ok, first 0.6.0.99 then, pull cleanups, move to 0.6.1 (possibly release candidates, but hopefully nit many) 0.6.1.1, and then 0.6.99?
 680 2012-04-02 13:26:02 <Blitzboom> oh, okay :D
 681 2012-04-02 13:26:40 <sipa> wait, what? 50 pull requests open
 682 2012-04-02 13:26:49 karoles has joined
 683 2012-04-02 13:26:49 <gavinandresen> sipa: "we" could insist on cleaning up some longstanding bugs/issues, like the slow shutdown
 684 2012-04-02 13:27:09 <gavinandresen> sipa: and the reports of encrypted wallets crashing when unlocked
 685 2012-04-02 13:27:53 Nicksasa has joined
 686 2012-04-02 13:27:53 Nicksasa has quit (Changing host)
 687 2012-04-02 13:27:53 Nicksasa has joined
 688 2012-04-02 13:28:49 <gmaxwell> I like this plan.
 689 2012-04-02 13:28:54 <gavinandresen> sipa: So, in my mind, the first question is:  should the next release be bug-fix-and-cleanup only?  That'll make some people who want development to move faster unhappy.
 690 2012-04-02 13:29:17 <sipa> No, it may be time for that; as long as 0.6.1 doesn't take 4 months.
 691 2012-04-02 13:29:36 <luke-jr> does CBlockStore count as cleanup? :p
 692 2012-04-02 13:31:13 <gmaxwell> I think CBlockStore could be taken in a bug-fix-and-cleanup cycle— simply because it's not at all user/interface/network visible and could be backed out if it had any issues—, although I might lean a little against it.
 693 2012-04-02 13:31:44 <sipa> I've started testing blockstore and change a few things myself
 694 2012-04-02 13:31:50 <gmaxwell> Certantly CoinControl would not count as cleanup.
 695 2012-04-02 13:32:51 h4ckm3 has joined
 696 2012-04-02 13:32:57 <gavinandresen> I haven't looked at the difference between CBlockStore and Michael Gronager's refactoring(s)
 697 2012-04-02 13:33:16 <sipa> gavinandresen: libcoin is far far more intrusive
 698 2012-04-02 13:34:06 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: Did you figure anything out about Ozcoin's bitcoind?
 699 2012-04-02 13:34:26 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I fell asleep.
 700 2012-04-02 13:34:51 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: afaict, libcoin effectively reverts most cleanups since 0.4
 701 2012-04-02 13:35:34 <luke-jr> as much as I think their general direction is a good idea, I think it needs to be taken in steps
 702 2012-04-02 13:35:42 <sipa> gavinandresen: libcoin is mostly about splitting the code in a few layers, and reduce lock contention maximally (and though it seems well thought out, I'm still not convinced it's entirely safe; for example, he was not aware that reading a stl structure required a lock if it could be written to at the same time)
 703 2012-04-02 13:36:34 <gavinandresen> right, I'm just wondering if we like his block-chain abstraction better than Matt's
 704 2012-04-02 13:36:53 <gmaxwell> Probably time to run a lock profiler against bitcoin again with the bdb speedups...
 705 2012-04-02 13:37:16 <sipa> blockstore only moves globals from main (partially, it's not 100% yet) to a separate class, and adds a callback processor that runs in one (or more!) separate threads
 706 2012-04-02 13:38:37 <luke-jr> so are you guys decided on 0.6.1 vs 0.7.0?
 707 2012-04-02 13:38:49 <luke-jr> (so I can make the 0.6.0.x or 0.6.x stable branches)
 708 2012-04-02 13:39:09 <sipa> gavinandresen: i took me a few mails with him in private before i understood why acceptblock didn't need to take a lock
 709 2012-04-02 13:39:54 <sipa> it sounded safe afterwards, but understanding every single detail will take a lot of time
 710 2012-04-02 13:40:38 <gmaxwell> Personally I don't see a lot of value to removing locks that can't be shown to be either contended or in very frequent fastpath code.
 711 2012-04-02 13:41:16 <gavinandresen> sipa gmaxwell : I'm inclined to do a cleanup/bug-fix 0.6.1, with a target rc1 date in... oh, I dunno, 3 or 4 weeks ?
 712 2012-04-02 13:42:12 <gmaxwell> That would also give some time for actual features to get more developed— we don't really have a backlog of pull-ready features.
 713 2012-04-02 13:43:18 karoles has left ()
 714 2012-04-02 13:44:32 <gmaxwell> http://bitcoinstatus.rowit.co.uk/versions.html  < 3.24 still the single most popular listening version?
 715 2012-04-02 13:44:54 <luke-jr> I think 4005d6bea3 may need more attention.
 716 2012-04-02 13:45:08 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: why ?
 717 2012-04-02 13:45:24 <luke-jr> stable backport is giving me ERROR: ConnectInputs() : 4005d6bea3 VerifySignature failed
 718 2012-04-02 13:45:35 <luke-jr> 0.6 gives: ERROR: ConnectInputs() : 4005d6bea3 P2SH VerifySignature failed
 719 2012-04-02 13:45:35 <gmaxwell> It sould be.
 720 2012-04-02 13:45:38 <gmaxwell> Oh.
 721 2012-04-02 13:46:01 <sipa> gavinandresen: ok, but i'd try not to delay things further then
 722 2012-04-02 13:46:04 <luke-jr> so either our assumptions about 4005d6 are wrong, or there's something wrong with the stable backport
 723 2012-04-02 13:46:13 <gavinandresen> sipa: delay what things?
 724 2012-04-02 13:46:17 <luke-jr> has anyone managed to get a copy of the txn yet?
 725 2012-04-02 13:46:30 <gmaxwell> Does it even have any code for "P2SH VerifySignature failed"?
 726 2012-04-02 13:47:19 <gmaxwell> Okay, I have a 0.3.19 node which has AcceptToMemoryPool(): accepted 4005d6bea3
 727 2012-04-02 13:47:25 <gmaxwell> So I have it in memory. :)
 728 2012-04-02 13:47:32 <sipa> gavinandresen: have a 3-week merge window for 0.6.1, but if certain things aren't ready by then, don't delay rc1 further
 729 2012-04-02 13:47:47 <gavinandresen> sipa: ACK
 730 2012-04-02 13:48:21 <gavinandresen> sipa:  You can always pick 2 of 3 for a release:  features, quality, time.  For 0.6.1 we'll pick quality, time.
 731 2012-04-02 13:48:28 <gmaxwell> Frankly, I think the adoption curves would be helped by cutting some post 0.6 point releases even if they change very little.
 732 2012-04-02 13:48:29 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 733 2012-04-02 13:48:57 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: agreed.
 734 2012-04-02 13:50:23 <gavinandresen> So then we get to Blitzboom's question:  what features would we like to see for a 0.7 ?
 735 2012-04-02 13:51:26 * Blitzboom votes deterministic wallet
 736 2012-04-02 13:51:28 Joric_ has joined
 737 2012-04-02 13:51:39 <sipa> coin control, ipv6, deterministic wallets
 738 2012-04-02 13:51:42 <gavinandresen> I'd vote deterministic wallet with an automatic backup scheme
 739 2012-04-02 13:51:58 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 740 2012-04-02 13:52:03 <Blitzboom> would it be possible to connect it to dropbox and do encryption?
 741 2012-04-02 13:52:26 <gavinandresen> I like the idea of it emailing an encrypted copy of the master root key to me
 742 2012-04-02 13:52:47 <sipa> gavinandresen: encrypted using your key, or their key? ;)
 743 2012-04-02 13:54:23 <gmaxwell> Yea, my ranking right now for new features would be: deterministic wallet, backup improvements, real IPv6 (we need some more networking cleanup too), and coin control  (my enthusiasm for coin control is slightly damped by how hard it is to test throughly)
 744 2012-04-02 13:54:47 <gavinandresen> ACK on the hard to test thoroughly...
 745 2012-04-02 13:54:53 <sipa> also, i'd like to see blockstore merged rather sooner than later, since it will break other pull requests anyway; but i'd like to go over some things with him first still
 746 2012-04-02 13:55:04 <gmaxwell> Blitzboom: if you like drooling over feature wishlists, https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/User:Gmaxwell/features
 747 2012-04-02 13:55:12 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: post-0.6 point releases could be from the stable repo if cleanups are omitted
 748 2012-04-02 13:55:21 <Blitzboom> gmaxwell: nice, thanks
 749 2012-04-02 13:55:25 <gmaxwell> Blitzboom: thats my personal list of things I'd like to see. Opinions may differ.
 750 2012-04-02 13:55:36 <Blitzboom> 1.0 is coming :P
 751 2012-04-02 13:56:09 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: can I connect to the node with 4005d6?
 752 2012-04-02 13:56:47 <sipa> something else for 0.7: tor/i2p hidden service support
 753 2012-04-02 13:57:51 <luke-jr> actually, #bitcoin-watch has it too
 754 2012-04-02 13:57:57 erle- has quit (Quit: erle-)
 755 2012-04-02 13:58:03 * luke-jr ponders how to get it
 756 2012-04-02 13:58:19 Joric_ has quit ()
 757 2012-04-02 13:58:29 <gmaxwell> sipa: yea, thats one reason I think of IPv6 as a goal— because it's needed for good onion integration.
 758 2012-04-02 13:58:39 <sipa> indeed
 759 2012-04-02 14:02:08 <gavinandresen> Wow, there are probably enough 0.6 nodes to ensure multisig transactions get relayed to a multisig-capable miner already....
 760 2012-04-02 14:03:03 smoothie has joined
 761 2012-04-02 14:03:05 <Blitzboom> perhaps it would be good to announce 0.6 in the forum news bar as well
 762 2012-04-02 14:04:53 <gavinandresen> Ok, just pushed:  Bump version to 0.6.0.99 for 0.6.1 merge window
 763 2012-04-02 14:05:56 <gavinandresen> afk for a while, sipa gmaxwell feel free to pull any obviously-should-be-pulled requests if you feel so inclined
 764 2012-04-02 14:09:19 <helo> gmaxwell: it looks like you are prepared to occupy the time of a slew of summer of code participants :)
 765 2012-04-02 14:10:22 <helo> oh, the deadline already passed heh
 766 2012-04-02 14:10:34 <gmaxwell> I've never had good expirence with GSOC — mostly they do enough work to get the first payment then vanish. Success varies.
 767 2012-04-02 14:11:05 <luke-jr> >_<
 768 2012-04-02 14:11:29 copumpkin has joined
 769 2012-04-02 14:11:58 <gmaxwell> The ffmpeg/libav folks have had good luck— but they get lots of applicants and make them complete a qualification task first (the qualification tast often being hard enough to be a GSOC task in its own right). This seems to work pretty well.
 770 2012-04-02 14:13:52 <copumpkin> ooh, talking about a bitcoin GSOC?
 771 2012-04-02 14:14:05 <sipa> too late for that already
 772 2012-04-02 14:14:10 <copumpkin> I know
 773 2012-04-02 14:14:13 <gmaxwell> We missed the window this year.. perhaps next.
 774 2012-04-02 14:14:14 <copumpkin> I kept asking about it a while back :)
 775 2012-04-02 14:14:27 <copumpkin> it'd be cool if next year worked though
 776 2012-04-02 14:16:06 denisx_ has joined
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 778 2012-04-02 14:17:44 denisx_ is now known as denisx
 779 2012-04-02 14:19:40 <helo> "Start as a SPV (lite) client, validate to become a full node in the background" very nice...
 780 2012-04-02 14:22:00 fiddur1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 781 2012-04-02 14:22:51 <luke-jr> hmm
 782 2012-04-02 14:23:13 <luke-jr> received getdata for: tx 4005d6bea3a93fb72f00
 783 2012-04-02 14:23:18 <luke-jr> but it doesn't send me the txn :/
 784 2012-04-02 14:23:47 <sipa> received getdata: someone requested that txn from you
 785 2012-04-02 14:25:31 <luke-jr> sipa: yes, I'm trying to get it from my node
 786 2012-04-02 14:25:38 <luke-jr> using wireshark :P
 787 2012-04-02 14:25:41 <sipa> gavinandresen: any opinion about the network version increase needed for the pong message?
 788 2012-04-02 14:26:12 <sipa> maybe it could be combined with some solution for the connect-twice-to-the-same-node problem, which probably also needs some network protocol change
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 793 2012-04-02 14:29:29 <luke-jr> any way to get the txn in gdb?
 794 2012-04-02 14:29:54 Nicksasa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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 796 2012-04-02 14:30:09 <gmaxwell> sipa: any thoughts on how to address that in a way that would still let you run e.g. a node on IPv4 and Onion and not trivally tell they were the same node?
 797 2012-04-02 14:33:53 <Diablo-D3> easy
 798 2012-04-02 14:33:56 <Diablo-D3> make bitcoin tor aware
 799 2012-04-02 14:34:12 <Diablo-D3> and give it a case of multiple personality
 800 2012-04-02 14:34:19 <sipa> gmaxwell: only thing i can come up with: have some message that carries a nonce message, with a TTL; nodes sometimes send out such a message to the network with TTL 2, and see if it returns?
 801 2012-04-02 14:34:47 <Diablo-D3> force the real IP side to ony repeat messages from real IP stuff
 802 2012-04-02 14:35:01 <Diablo-D3> and the tor side to only repeat tor messages
 803 2012-04-02 14:35:10 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: that would defeat the purpose of having a single node connected to both transports.
 804 2012-04-02 14:35:12 <Diablo-D3> but accept, internally, either, such as new block messages
 805 2012-04-02 14:35:18 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: not done yet
 806 2012-04-02 14:35:32 <Diablo-D3> ONLY repeat across the two if you haven't heard it from the other side yet
 807 2012-04-02 14:35:33 <gmaxwell> ah. only relay blocks across the boundary. hm. Interesting thought.
 808 2012-04-02 14:35:53 <Diablo-D3> infact
 809 2012-04-02 14:35:55 <Diablo-D3> do it automatically
 810 2012-04-02 14:35:56 <Diablo-D3> do like
 811 2012-04-02 14:36:15 <Diablo-D3> so many seconds after the creation of the block and no one on the other side as told yet
 812 2012-04-02 14:36:28 <Diablo-D3> so the entire IP side synchronizedly tells the tor side at the same time
 813 2012-04-02 14:36:33 <sipa> you could add a "network identifier" to Node objects, and relay only to Nodes with the same id
 814 2012-04-02 14:36:34 <Diablo-D3> like, say, 5 seconds
 815 2012-04-02 14:36:40 <Diablo-D3> or 10
 816 2012-04-02 14:36:59 <Diablo-D3> so in the noise you hide whos actually relaying and whos actually who
 817 2012-04-02 14:37:08 paulo_ has joined
 818 2012-04-02 14:37:38 <paulo_> what is the current size of the blocks?
 819 2012-04-02 14:37:50 <Habbie> if only blocks pass the boundary, and txns do not, what if there are not enough miners on the onion-side?
 820 2012-04-02 14:38:01 <Diablo-D3> Habbie: but blocks are just containers for txen
 821 2012-04-02 14:38:09 <Diablo-D3> oh, you mean txen that havent crossed yet?
 822 2012-04-02 14:38:12 <Diablo-D3> the same applies
 823 2012-04-02 14:38:15 <paulo_> it's still downloading, and it's over 8gb :|
 824 2012-04-02 14:38:22 <paulo_> oops
 825 2012-04-02 14:38:26 <paulo_> i meant, 800mb
 826 2012-04-02 14:38:35 <sipa> meh, no problem in relaying blocks over the boundary
 827 2012-04-02 14:38:44 <Diablo-D3> txen can be relayed the same exact way
 828 2012-04-02 14:38:48 <Diablo-D3> since its just another message
 829 2012-04-02 14:39:09 <Diablo-D3> relay it after so many seconds of hearing it if you havent heard it relayed to you from the opposide side yet
 830 2012-04-02 14:39:10 <luke-jr> let txns cross the boundary when at least 2 or 3 of your peers have inv'd it?
 831 2012-04-02 14:39:30 Ukyo has joined
 832 2012-04-02 14:39:34 <Diablo-D3> and reset the ttl as well if bitcoin uses those
 833 2012-04-02 14:39:36 Ukyo is now known as Ukto
 834 2012-04-02 14:39:57 <Diablo-D3> infact, ttls should not be strictly decremented
 835 2012-04-02 14:40:10 <Diablo-D3> they should be randomly decremented, including with negative values
 836 2012-04-02 14:40:15 <Diablo-D3> (ie, it might increase 1 or 2 sometimes)
 837 2012-04-02 14:40:25 <gmaxwell> There are no TTLs.
 838 2012-04-02 14:40:36 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: ahh, too bad really
 839 2012-04-02 14:40:46 <Diablo-D3> might need one if the network gets big enough
 840 2012-04-02 14:40:59 <gmaxwell> No, it's a flooding network...
 841 2012-04-02 14:41:07 <t7> how is difficulty calculated? time since genesis / number of blocks since genesis?
 842 2012-04-02 14:41:31 torsthaldo has joined
 843 2012-04-02 14:41:47 <sipa> t7: previous_difficulty * (two_weeks / time_last_2015_blocks_took), every 2016 blocks
 844 2012-04-02 14:42:19 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: yeah, but its smart enough to not repeat a message that its already repeated, right?
 845 2012-04-02 14:42:46 <sipa> it relays only invs, that are small
 846 2012-04-02 14:42:53 <sipa> the other side can request the data if necessary
 847 2012-04-02 14:43:14 <sipa> and there is a cache of recently relayed invs, so they are not resent
 848 2012-04-02 14:43:32 <t7> ah so its smoothed over 2 weeks
 849 2012-04-02 14:43:41 <t7> i thought it might be something like that
 850 2012-04-02 14:44:00 * Diablo-D3 almost wants to write his own bitcoin, though
 851 2012-04-02 14:44:09 <t7> Diablo-D3: me two
 852 2012-04-02 14:44:12 <sipa> what would you change?
 853 2012-04-02 14:44:17 <t7> a super minimal implementation
 854 2012-04-02 14:44:20 <Diablo-D3> sipa: take out the currency, honestly
 855 2012-04-02 14:44:36 <sipa> how do you mean?
 856 2012-04-02 14:44:53 <Diablo-D3> I want a generic messaging platform
 857 2012-04-02 14:45:00 <sipa> it's not
 858 2012-04-02 14:45:10 <Diablo-D3> it surprisingly is
 859 2012-04-02 14:45:12 <sipa> you can split the p2p layer and the blockchain layer and the transaction layer
 860 2012-04-02 14:45:26 <Diablo-D3> the blockchain layer isnt even a blockchain layer
 861 2012-04-02 14:45:31 <Diablo-D3> its a persistent synchronized storage layer
 862 2012-04-02 14:45:31 Nick_ has joined
 863 2012-04-02 14:45:33 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: there is basically nothing in bitcoin that you'd keep for a "generic messaging platform"
 864 2012-04-02 14:45:40 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: the ideas I would
 865 2012-04-02 14:45:50 <Diablo-D3> I really like how it cryptosigns messages with brute force
 866 2012-04-02 14:45:55 darkee has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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 870 2012-04-02 14:46:12 <gmaxwell> Without the currency part that brute force isn't reusable though.
 871 2012-04-02 14:46:27 <Diablo-D3> yes/no
 872 2012-04-02 14:46:34 <Diablo-D3> you have to spend so much cpu time just to talk
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 877 2012-04-02 14:47:09 <sipa> why bother, if with almost the same technology you can have a system for trading those cpu-time-spent tokens
 878 2012-04-02 14:47:17 <Diablo-D3> sipa: yes/no
 879 2012-04-02 14:47:25 <Diablo-D3> Im interested in other things
 880 2012-04-02 14:47:55 <Diablo-D3> although, yes, nothing stops me from doing a currency
 881 2012-04-02 14:48:07 <sipa> time :)
 882 2012-04-02 14:48:21 <Diablo-D3> technically.
 883 2012-04-02 14:48:35 <Diablo-D3> although the way I write code, Im often writing for multiple future projects anyhow
 884 2012-04-02 14:48:58 <t7> is the stack language in transactions a good idea?
 885 2012-04-02 14:49:35 <sipa> t7: i'd change it to a syntax-tree-evaluation system
 886 2012-04-02 14:49:46 <sipa> only expressions, basically
 887 2012-04-02 14:51:20 <helo> i thought syntax tree evaluation commonly uses a stack
 888 2012-04-02 14:51:44 <sipa> sure, that's how it could be implemented
 889 2012-04-02 14:52:01 <sipa> but only having an expression language makes things so much easier to analyse
 890 2012-04-02 14:52:18 <gmaxwell> The existing subsetting pretty much makes the stack language that... an expression langauge would have made it more clear.
 891 2012-04-02 14:54:27 <t7> i mean is it worth the bother
 892 2012-04-02 14:54:34 <gmaxwell> Yes.
 893 2012-04-02 14:54:34 <t7> why not just input and output
 894 2012-04-02 14:54:45 SphericalCow has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 895 2012-04-02 14:55:29 <gmaxwell> Because that would be very constraining and would deny the full vision of bitcoin— what good is a decenteralized currency if everything you want to do with it requires a centeralized service?
 896 2012-04-02 14:55:42 Turingi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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 898 2012-04-02 14:57:09 <t7> how are the scripts used at the moment?
 899 2012-04-02 14:57:31 <sipa> Hardly; but that will change
 900 2012-04-02 14:58:24 <gmaxwell> They are important for multisig, and p2sh of course.
 901 2012-04-02 14:59:28 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: I had a funny idea
 902 2012-04-02 14:59:43 <Diablo-D3> I should try it to see if it works for the lulz
 903 2012-04-02 15:00:02 <Diablo-D3> after Im done taking over the world, I mean
 904 2012-04-02 15:00:23 <Diablo-D3> a multiple past merging chain
 905 2012-04-02 15:00:31 <Diablo-D3> so a block can name multiple past blocks
 906 2012-04-02 15:01:52 <t7> do all transactions contain a script to only pay the recipient ?
 907 2012-04-02 15:02:14 <t7> i still dont know much about transactions or blocks
 908 2012-04-02 15:02:23 <gmaxwell> t7: all transactions contain a script. Normal ones are as you say...
 909 2012-04-02 15:03:14 <gmaxwell> People have written txns which are locked to people who provide a passphrase and ones that can be recieved by all.
 910 2012-04-02 15:03:47 <sipa> and ones that cannot be received at all
 911 2012-04-02 15:03:56 <gmaxwell> Indeed.
 912 2012-04-02 15:04:37 <paulo_> is the initial synchronization really supposed to take this long?
 913 2012-04-02 15:04:57 <gmaxwell> paulo_: It depends — and what version are you running?
 914 2012-04-02 15:05:06 <paulo_> the latest
 915 2012-04-02 15:05:11 <paulo_> just dl'ed it last night
 916 2012-04-02 15:05:19 <gmaxwell> 0.6?
 917 2012-04-02 15:05:26 <gmaxwell> The reason I ask is because its faster in 0.6.
 918 2012-04-02 15:05:40 <paulo_> yes, 0.6
 919 2012-04-02 15:05:41 <gmaxwell> In any case, it depends on your system and the peers you connect to.
 920 2012-04-02 15:05:42 <t7> i think my strongly normalising lambda calculus with hindley milner type inference would be more fun than a stack language :D
 921 2012-04-02 15:05:46 <gmaxwell> How long are you calling long?
 922 2012-04-02 15:05:46 <Diablo-D3> heh
 923 2012-04-02 15:05:51 <Diablo-D3> guess what I heard
 924 2012-04-02 15:06:21 <Diablo-D3> one of the major visa/mastercard merchant payment processors is down due to anonymous
 925 2012-04-02 15:06:25 <gmaxwell> t7: it's very important that the computation time be linear in the size of the code— or at least that it's trivially knowable and reliably boundable.
 926 2012-04-02 15:07:00 <t7> so the stack language has no jumps, i take it
 927 2012-04-02 15:07:05 <gmaxwell> t7: correct.
 928 2012-04-02 15:07:10 <t7> jump backs anyway
 929 2012-04-02 15:07:34 <gmaxwell> as the page says— "Bitcoin uses a scripting system for transactions. Forth-like, Script is simple, stack-based, and processed from left to right. It is purposefully not Turing-complete, with no loops. "
 930 2012-04-02 15:09:02 DBordello has joined
 931 2012-04-02 15:09:05 <t7> gmaxwell: are there any websites like blockchain.info that show the scripts for txs?
 932 2012-04-02 15:09:09 <gmaxwell> paulo_: in any case, taking an hour to a few wouldn't be surprising. Longer than that I'd like to know about.
 933 2012-04-02 15:09:15 <gmaxwell> t7: Yes, blockchain.info.
 934 2012-04-02 15:09:30 <gmaxwell> (and blockexplorer, fwiw)
 935 2012-04-02 15:09:36 <t7> ah sorry
 936 2012-04-02 15:11:38 <t7> whats 'coinbase'? :S
 937 2012-04-02 15:12:36 <[Tycho]> I wonder what pool continues to make orphans...
 938 2012-04-02 15:12:59 <Graet> hopefully not mine :p
 939 2012-04-02 15:13:04 <Graet> WILL FIND OUT SOON
 940 2012-04-02 15:13:05 <sipa> t7: the first transaction in a block, the one that is allowed to introduce new currency
 941 2012-04-02 15:13:07 <Graet> o0ops
 942 2012-04-02 15:13:08 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: 50BTC
 943 2012-04-02 15:13:22 <gmaxwell> I mentioned them in my eulogy.
 944 2012-04-02 15:13:36 <sipa> gmaxwell: eulogy?
 945 2012-04-02 15:13:46 <[Tycho]> gmaxwell: do you know their hashrate or stats page ?
 946 2012-04-02 15:13:49 Joric has joined
 947 2012-04-02 15:13:50 <[Tycho]> I doubt it.
 948 2012-04-02 15:13:56 Joric has quit (Changing host)
 949 2012-04-02 15:13:56 Joric has joined
 950 2012-04-02 15:14:10 <Graet> https://50btc.com/
 951 2012-04-02 15:14:50 <gmaxwell> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1550724
 952 2012-04-02 15:15:47 <sipa> haha
 953 2012-04-02 15:16:58 <t7> why is the nonce included in the block info :S why not the whole hash
 954 2012-04-02 15:17:14 <t7> i guess i dont understand about mining yet either
 955 2012-04-02 15:17:27 <sipa> what "whole hash" ?
 956 2012-04-02 15:17:29 <t7> i deserve a phd once i ingest all this crap
 957 2012-04-02 15:17:31 <gmaxwell> t7: Block info where?
 958 2012-04-02 15:17:42 <t7> on blockchain.info
 959 2012-04-02 15:17:52 <gmaxwell> It shows the block hash.
 960 2012-04-02 15:18:09 <sipa> http://blockchain.info/block-index/202421/000000000000001b2cffa108ab8a87402eddbe512561ef0fa867ddf24a38fec7
 961 2012-04-02 15:18:11 <t7> why the nonce
 962 2012-04-02 15:18:17 <gavinandresen> sipa: RE: pong network version increase:  seems to me it definitely merits a network version bump; I have no opinion on whether or not it should be bundled with other changes.
 963 2012-04-02 15:18:17 <t7> thats in the hash right?
 964 2012-04-02 15:18:33 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 965 2012-04-02 15:18:46 <sipa> the purpose of BIP14 was to disconnect the network version from the client version
 966 2012-04-02 15:19:03 <sipa> so there is certainly no need to let the network protocol number follow our versioning scheme
 967 2012-04-02 15:19:11 <gavinandresen> sipa: yup
 968 2012-04-02 15:19:53 <gavinandresen> pong could be PROTOCOL VERSION 60100 or 60001
 969 2012-04-02 15:21:21 <upb> noone deserves a phd for spoonfeeding
 970 2012-04-02 15:24:11 <sipa> gavinandresen: i've mailed the dev list about it
 971 2012-04-02 15:25:00 <gavinandresen> sipa: great, I'm composing a message about 0.6.1 / 0.7 release plans.
 972 2012-04-02 15:25:47 Zarutian has joined
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 974 2012-04-02 15:35:38 <t7> latest block is 43 mins old :|
 975 2012-04-02 15:36:35 <nameless> !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|44
 976 2012-04-02 15:36:36 <Graet> yes
 977 2012-04-02 15:36:39 <Graet> hurry up
 978 2012-04-02 15:36:40 <gmaxwell> Graet: I see you're up again.
 979 2012-04-02 15:36:40 nameless has left (!~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|)
 980 2012-04-02 15:36:40 nameless has joined
 981 2012-04-02 15:36:42 <Graet> :P
 982 2012-04-02 15:36:46 <Graet> yes gmaxwell :)
 983 2012-04-02 15:36:52 <nameless> !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|my hat went away
 984 2012-04-02 15:36:57 * nameless !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|shrugs
 985 2012-04-02 15:36:59 <Graet> nervously waiting the next blocks lol
 986 2012-04-02 15:37:10 <gmaxwell> Graet: well 4019 doesn't contain the transaction of doom.
 987 2012-04-02 15:37:22 <Graet> yay
 988 2012-04-02 15:37:24 <gmaxwell> Graet: so I assume you'll be fine.
 989 2012-04-02 15:37:27 <Graet> good news :)
 990 2012-04-02 15:37:46 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.)
 991 2012-04-02 15:38:55 <t7> whats the transaction of doom? :3
 992 2012-04-02 15:39:08 <gmaxwell> https://blockchain.info/tx-index/3618498/4005d6bea3a93fb72f006d23e2685b85069d270cb57d15f0c057ef2d5e3f78d2?show_adv=true
 993 2012-04-02 15:42:12 <Joric> 0.004 BTC ?
 994 2012-04-02 15:42:38 ovidiusoft has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 995 2012-04-02 15:42:40 <t7> why is doomy?
 996 2012-04-02 15:43:17 <gmaxwell> Because its invalid.
 997 2012-04-02 15:44:09 <t7> why?
 998 2012-04-02 15:44:12 <t7> input script?
 999 2012-04-02 15:44:16 <gmaxwell> Yes.
1000 2012-04-02 15:45:21 <t7> blockchain.info doesnt check the script ?
1001 2012-04-02 15:46:47 <t7> wow nearly an hour
1002 2012-04-02 15:46:58 <t7> 3 BTC says it more than 1 hour
1003 2012-04-02 15:48:56 <sipa> 𝔹
1004 2012-04-02 15:49:45 <Graet> eh shoulda taken that\
1005 2012-04-02 15:49:50 <Graet> woot it was us lmao
1006 2012-04-02 15:50:00 <t7> shit on it
1007 2012-04-02 15:50:24 Ukto has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1008 2012-04-02 15:51:51 darkee has quit (!~darkee@gateway/tor-sasl/darkee|Remote host closed the connection)
1009 2012-04-02 15:52:16 <t7> how does pooled mining work? couldnt you just cash in the block yourself if you found it?
1010 2012-04-02 15:52:24 darkee has joined
1011 2012-04-02 15:52:44 <Graet> nup
1012 2012-04-02 15:52:51 <Graet> or pooled minig wouldnt work
1013 2012-04-02 15:53:15 DBordello has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1014 2012-04-02 15:56:21 <Joric> every1 should be rewarded accordingly
1015 2012-04-02 15:56:48 <t7> do you only calculate half the hash or something?
1016 2012-04-02 15:56:54 <t7> i dont understand
1017 2012-04-02 15:57:03 <luke-jr> t7: the hash is based on the generated reward
1018 2012-04-02 15:57:11 <luke-jr> if you changed where the reward went, it'd hash different
1019 2012-04-02 15:57:19 <t7> ah i see
1020 2012-04-02 15:57:25 <t7> clever
1021 2012-04-02 15:58:01 sje has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1022 2012-04-02 15:58:32 t7 has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 12.0/20120321033733])
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1027 2012-04-02 16:10:07 <Zarutian> 0.6.0 already? damn, I dont keep up. Btw what is the gpg key which the developer sign satoshi bitcoin? (fingerprint prefered but keyid ok)
1028 2012-04-02 16:10:34 <luke-jr> Zarutian: depends on who does the release
1029 2012-04-02 16:10:41 <luke-jr> I think 0.6.0 was signed by Gavin
1030 2012-04-02 16:10:53 <luke-jr> 2664 6D99 CBAE C9B8 1982 EF60 29D9 EE6B 1FC7 30C1
1031 2012-04-02 16:12:00 Cablesaurus has joined
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1033 2012-04-02 16:12:00 Cablesaurus has joined
1034 2012-04-02 16:13:27 <Zarutian> luke-jr: key retrived. Thanks.
1035 2012-04-02 16:14:22 user has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1036 2012-04-02 16:18:23 wereHamster has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1037 2012-04-02 16:23:09 tg has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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1039 2012-04-02 16:27:47 <[Tycho]> Graet: but where is their block list ?
1040 2012-04-02 16:28:20 <Graet> PPS RATE: = "they dont need to show one" ?
1041 2012-04-02 16:28:30 <Graet> lots of pps pools do that
1042 2012-04-02 16:29:22 <luke-jr> lol
1043 2012-04-02 16:31:29 tg has joined
1044 2012-04-02 16:31:49 smoothie has quit (Quit: changing servers)
1045 2012-04-02 16:32:46 smoothie has joined
1046 2012-04-02 16:39:19 <Joric> last trade 4.99
1047 2012-04-02 16:40:05 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1048 2012-04-02 16:43:07 conman has joined
1049 2012-04-02 16:44:52 Turing_i has joined
1050 2012-04-02 16:45:02 t7 has joined
1051 2012-04-02 16:47:38 Turingi has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1052 2012-04-02 16:48:32 <[Tycho]> Graet: this pool is listed at http://blockorigin.pfoe.be/blocklist.php so there may be a list somewhere.
1053 2012-04-02 16:48:39 Turing_i has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1054 2012-04-02 16:48:49 <[Tycho]> Also the text on their main page suggests that it's a prop pool.
1055 2012-04-02 16:50:02 Turing_i has joined
1056 2012-04-02 16:50:03 <[Tycho]> BTW what happened to http://blockorigin.pfoe.be and BBE ?
1057 2012-04-02 16:52:08 <[Tycho]> Someone tested BIP30 ? :) http://blockexplorer.com/block/000000000000071e0569cad9425650f7222d1c4435a6e8a9aac60531ffdf45d1
1058 2012-04-02 16:52:29 Joric has quit ()
1059 2012-04-02 16:53:00 <[Tycho]> How it can be "an exact copy" if hash is different ?
1060 2012-04-02 16:53:49 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1061 2012-04-02 16:54:08 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: hash is same
1062 2012-04-02 16:54:15 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: BBE screws up when blocks are orphaned
1063 2012-04-02 16:55:27 <[Tycho]> It says "This transaction is an exact copy of 0cdfcd9303..."
1064 2012-04-02 16:56:55 <Habbie> bad choice of words, indeed
1065 2012-04-02 16:57:28 malaimo_ has quit (Quit: leaving)
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1070 2012-04-02 17:20:04 Diapolo has joined
1071 2012-04-02 17:20:32 <Diapolo> Hello everyone ... wow that's full here.
1072 2012-04-02 17:22:42 <luke-jr> hey Diapolo
1073 2012-04-02 17:23:05 <Diapolo> This is the official dev channel, right?
1074 2012-04-02 17:23:48 <gmaxwell> Greetings.
1075 2012-04-02 17:23:55 <gmaxwell> Yes. As official as anything with bitcoin is.
1076 2012-04-02 17:24:14 <gmaxwell> I'm very glad to see more people working on the GUI.
1077 2012-04-02 17:24:21 <Diapolo> Well I know a few names from Git discussions, so that's fine.
1078 2012-04-02 17:24:59 erle- has quit (Quit: erle-)
1079 2012-04-02 17:25:08 <gmaxwell> wumpus is laanwj.
1080 2012-04-02 17:25:30 <Diapolo> It's a good feeling to contribute ... and the core bitcoin stuff is nothing I really understand currently :D, so GUI and infrastructure help is fine.
1081 2012-04-02 17:26:30 roomservice has quit (Quit: Verlassend)
1082 2012-04-02 17:29:26 <t7> its all bits and bytes
1083 2012-04-02 17:30:29 <wumpus> hey Diapolo
1084 2012-04-02 17:30:34 <gmaxwell> Diapolo: can you put up a screenshot of your new progressbar?
1085 2012-04-02 17:30:48 <gmaxwell> (I only run the GUI when I need to test it...)
1086 2012-04-02 17:31:44 <Diapolo> Hey laanwj ;),
1087 2012-04-02 17:31:52 <Diapolo> Sure, will create one just a sec.
1088 2012-04-02 17:34:37 <Diapolo> see: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=s6j5er&s=5
1089 2012-04-02 17:34:54 lyspooner has joined
1090 2012-04-02 17:35:02 <Habbie> cool
1091 2012-04-02 17:35:53 <gmaxwell> Cool. I like the color. How does solid look?  (is the gradient visible when the bar is very low?)
1092 2012-04-02 17:36:15 <Diapolo> @wumpus to answer your Git question yes this overwrites OS default style for bars in the client
1093 2012-04-02 17:36:17 <Graet> i like the number :)
1094 2012-04-02 17:36:39 <luke-jr> look and feel should be left to the OS as much as possible
1095 2012-04-02 17:36:39 <Diapolo> by solid you mean only orange and no fading?
1096 2012-04-02 17:36:56 <gmaxwell> Diapolo: Yes.
1097 2012-04-02 17:37:01 <Diapolo> luke currently it's not possible to do that without the drawback you all know :-/
1098 2012-04-02 17:37:09 <wumpus> I think a gradient is nice (but indeed, starting from white on a white progress bar is asking for problems :-) )
1099 2012-04-02 17:37:26 <luke-jr> Diapolo: you *have* to override the style to add text?
1100 2012-04-02 17:37:28 <gmaxwell> FWIW, this is tcatm's WIP UI changes, http://188.138.99.157/stuff/qtvert14.png
1101 2012-04-02 17:37:36 <wumpus> luke-jr: yes, as much as *possible*
1102 2012-04-02 17:39:33 <Diapolo> gmaxwell, looks a bit like Win8 metro and I dislike Metro, but the layout is cleaner ... although I would keep the bottom bar
1103 2012-04-02 17:39:54 <wumpus> it'd probably be better to use a subtle gradient.. .orange to orange-ish
1104 2012-04-02 17:40:09 <[Tycho]> Metro is the best interface for plain people ever invented :)
1105 2012-04-02 17:40:12 <gmaxwell> Should the bar be N blocks remain or N or M?  the question we often ask people is "what height are you at"
1106 2012-04-02 17:40:30 <wumpus> it's better like this, only show one number
1107 2012-04-02 17:40:38 <gmaxwell> Okay, I'll take your word for it.
1108 2012-04-02 17:40:44 <wumpus> you can view X of Y by viewing the tooltip
1109 2012-04-02 17:41:05 barmstrong has joined
1110 2012-04-02 17:41:24 <wumpus> or opening the logging/rpc/diagnostic console window (but that's for 0.7 or 0.8)
1111 2012-04-02 17:41:28 <Diapolo> right, the tooltip is the debugging helper
1112 2012-04-02 17:41:54 <wumpus> still working on it
1113 2012-04-02 17:42:02 <Diapolo> @Tycho I don'l like iOS either ^^ I'm a techie and it's tooo simple
1114 2012-04-02 17:42:23 <gmaxwell> It's sometimes hard to get people to hover, but okay—  What happens when you get your first few connections? does it jump gtom 160000 blocks remain to 170k blocks remain? Is that okay?
1115 2012-04-02 17:42:46 <wumpus> yes it jumps in the beginning as it assesses the YY value
1116 2012-04-02 17:42:53 <Diapolo> it's jumping because of the hard coded check-point yes
1117 2012-04-02 17:42:53 <wumpus> I don't think that's a problem
1118 2012-04-02 17:42:56 * luke-jr wonders how to hover without a mouse.
1119 2012-04-02 17:43:17 <wumpus> it's only an estimate anyway
1120 2012-04-02 17:43:25 <luke-jr> how about an animated blocks-falling? <.<
1121 2012-04-02 17:43:32 <Diapolo> but way better than a % value ...
1122 2012-04-02 17:43:36 <wumpus> how about a flight simulator?
1123 2012-04-02 17:43:39 <wumpus> yes Diapolo way better
1124 2012-04-02 17:43:41 <gmaxwell> Okay. ::nods:: I didn't have an opinion on it being a problem, I was just making sure people were aware of the behavior.
1125 2012-04-02 17:43:48 <Diapolo> luke your comments seem rather unconstructive ^^
1126 2012-04-02 17:43:49 * luke-jr votes flight simulator
1127 2012-04-02 17:43:50 user__ has joined
1128 2012-04-02 17:44:05 <gmaxwell> It should be fractals based on the blockchain. :)
1129 2012-04-02 17:44:13 <wumpus> hehe
1130 2012-04-02 17:44:18 <Diapolo> mandelbrot
1131 2012-04-02 17:44:22 <gmaxwell> "oh look the blue block gobbled the red one"
1132 2012-04-02 17:44:33 <Habbie> 'poor blue orphan'
1133 2012-04-02 17:44:33 <wumpus> simulated organisms
1134 2012-04-02 17:44:35 <Habbie> 'he was so young'
1135 2012-04-02 17:44:36 <luke-jr> maybe pac-man?
1136 2012-04-02 17:44:50 <Diapolo> ^^
1137 2012-04-02 17:45:49 <Diapolo> http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=29ditu&s=5 (orange solid)
1138 2012-04-02 17:46:02 <wumpus> I'd also vote to keep the status bar, I don't really like moving the status icons to the top much
1139 2012-04-02 17:46:17 <gmaxwell> Oh, I like that. But I'm weird.
1140 2012-04-02 17:46:28 <wumpus> almost every program has a status bar at the bottom, why make it an alian
1141 2012-04-02 17:46:30 <wumpus> alien*
1142 2012-04-02 17:46:41 <Diapolo> I like the fading, but I guess if we 2 vote you would win as a core dev :-P.
1143 2012-04-02 17:47:05 <gmaxwell> Diapolo: my votes on GUI things certantly do not cout.
1144 2012-04-02 17:47:06 <wumpus> I like the gradient too but please make it subtle
1145 2012-04-02 17:47:07 <gmaxwell> er count.
1146 2012-04-02 17:47:24 <Graet> i like fractals
1147 2012-04-02 17:47:30 <gmaxwell> Yea, try a more subtle one? In any case, we're shedpainting.
1148 2012-04-02 17:47:36 <wumpus> yeah
1149 2012-04-02 17:47:40 <wumpus> our nice orange shed
1150 2012-04-02 17:47:42 <Diapolo> currently it is from transparent to orange
1151 2012-04-02 17:48:10 <Diapolo> transparent should be the window color and orange is the HTML tag for err orange ^^
1152 2012-04-02 17:48:34 <Diapolo> give me a HTML color code and I will try it out
1153 2012-04-02 17:48:49 <gmaxwell> try black->orange (problems for text? should the text be white?) or orange-red to orange?
1154 2012-04-02 17:48:56 <wumpus> orange-ish to orange
1155 2012-04-02 17:49:14 <Diapolo> gmaxwell ... may I say no to that one ^^
1156 2012-04-02 17:49:20 <wumpus> orange-red to orange <- right
1157 2012-04-02 17:49:34 <wumpus> black to orange wouldn't work with black test
1158 2012-04-02 17:49:41 <wumpus> text*
1159 2012-04-02 17:49:46 <wumpus> and it's not subtle either
1160 2012-04-02 17:50:07 <gmaxwell> wumpus: the status bar move isn't to the top really, its to the sidebar, and part of the rationale there— I think— is that generally we have a surplus of horizontal space in the interface.
1161 2012-04-02 17:50:31 ovidiusoft has joined
1162 2012-04-02 17:50:35 <wumpus> should  at least make it red to orange to yellow to to white to black then :-)
1163 2012-04-02 17:50:47 <[Tycho]> Diapolo: I tried iOS only for a few seconds :) Yes, Metro is not what I personally like (I prefer Windows Mobile ~5.5), but is the best possible interface. Also looks accordingly to Microsoft future vision :)
1164 2012-04-02 17:51:11 * luke-jr doesn't see why the OS style won't work :P
1165 2012-04-02 17:51:40 <helo> ^
1166 2012-04-02 17:51:45 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: if we add more standard accounting to the txn list, we lose a bit of horiz space
1167 2012-04-02 17:51:51 <gmaxwell> In any case, I'll hush— you've all got this.
1168 2012-04-02 17:51:51 <Diapolo> on Win7 I can't read the text if I activate the window, sipa had problems too ...
1169 2012-04-02 17:51:53 <luke-jr> ie, Credit, Debit, Balance
1170 2012-04-02 17:52:09 <wumpus> gmaxwell: I know, but I don't really like it. The icons look crammed in there.
1171 2012-04-02 17:52:22 <wumpus> luke-jr: no chance
1172 2012-04-02 17:52:44 <luke-jr> wumpus: O.o?
1173 2012-04-02 17:52:46 <wumpus> there will be no columns added to the transaction list
1174 2012-04-02 17:52:57 <Diapolo> Tabs are cool and a status bar, too :).
1175 2012-04-02 17:53:07 <gmaxwell> wumpus: there is a taste-gap here I think. I think the current interface looks like a sea of wasted space. And as I said, I'll suggest but I firmly believe my opinion on the GUI is almost worthless.
1176 2012-04-02 17:54:15 <wumpus> gmaxwell: that may be true but this is the other extreme... it starts to look cluttered
1177 2012-04-02 17:54:48 pjorrit has joined
1178 2012-04-02 17:54:52 <wumpus> gmaxwell: I agree wasting too much space is not good, but the other way is that it starts to look like a cockpit / engineering interface... most users are scared by that
1179 2012-04-02 17:55:04 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: as far as other columns, since the txn order isnt entirely meaningful, I dunno how wise that would be, even ignoring the interface.
1180 2012-04-02 17:55:34 <Diapolo> http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=33y5hyo&s=5 red - orange?
1181 2012-04-02 17:55:50 <gmaxwell> wumpus: mostly I'd prefer to achieve that by packing things while minimizing elements.
1182 2012-04-02 17:55:51 <wumpus> my bank also doesn't have separate columns for credit, debit, balance
1183 2012-04-02 17:55:56 <wumpus> paypal hasn't either
1184 2012-04-02 17:56:12 <wumpus> I really don't see the point
1185 2012-04-02 17:56:59 <gmaxwell> FUCK#@$K@#L$KJ#@IJU@#R
1186 2012-04-02 17:57:06 <wumpus> ?!?
1187 2012-04-02 17:57:24 <gmaxwell> (I tried to log into my bank to check and got locked out because it randomly asked me a useless @#$@# security question)
1188 2012-04-02 17:58:15 <gmaxwell> "What street did you grow up on?"  give me a break. Don't ask questions hackers are more likely to get right than I am.
1189 2012-04-02 17:58:31 <wumpus> wtf... indeed
1190 2012-04-02 17:59:07 <luke-jr> lol
1191 2012-04-02 17:59:18 <gmaxwell> So, a different bank account of mine has DATE Description Debit Credit Balance
1192 2012-04-02 17:59:39 copumpkin is now known as bigmeanie
1193 2012-04-02 17:59:51 imsaguy2 is now known as copumpkin
1194 2012-04-02 17:59:53 <wumpus> maybe it's a US thing then
1195 2012-04-02 18:00:01 copumpkin is now known as imsaguy2
1196 2012-04-02 18:00:08 <wumpus> mine has one column with a positive or negative amount, like bitcoin
1197 2012-04-02 18:00:49 <Diapolo> I think red - orange is ugly and my Bank account should have more money ^^.
1198 2012-04-02 18:01:04 <gmaxwell> Another account (this time a brokerage account) has Date Description Amount (green/red) NetCashBalance
1199 2012-04-02 18:01:51 <Diapolo> ... I'll be back, watching news the next 15 minutes!
1200 2012-04-02 18:02:09 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: A day without sunshine is like .... night)
1201 2012-04-02 18:03:06 <gmaxwell> Another brokerage account has Date Type Description Amount (green/-black)
1202 2012-04-02 18:03:27 bigmeanie is now known as copumpkin
1203 2012-04-02 18:05:38 <gmaxwell> In any case the debit/credit/balance view encouages a balance-sequence understanding which is incorrect for bitcoin.
1204 2012-04-02 18:12:29 LittleDuke has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1209 2012-04-02 18:19:07 <wumpus> because a block chain reorganization could change the sequence? (at least of recent transactions)
1210 2012-04-02 18:20:21 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1211 2012-04-02 18:23:40 <gmaxwell> Yes, — or otherwise relearning them from the chain. E.g. I think a rescan can do that.
1212 2012-04-02 18:24:27 <wumpus> right
1213 2012-04-02 18:24:58 <Diapolo> a yellow - orange fade looks also ugly
1214 2012-04-02 18:25:02 <wumpus> Diapolo: stop: 0 #ff8000, stop: 1 orange  is pretty nice and subtle imo
1215 2012-04-02 18:25:16 PK is now known as PK|dinner
1216 2012-04-02 18:25:19 <Diapolo> will try that :)
1217 2012-04-02 18:25:26 <wumpus> (orange is #ffa500 so it's really close)
1218 2012-04-02 18:25:47 <wumpus> just a bit more red
1219 2012-04-02 18:26:48 <Diapolo> so we have a red-orange left and an orange right, seems good and subtle
1220 2012-04-02 18:27:12 <wumpus> yes
1221 2012-04-02 18:27:26 <gmaxwell> Can something be done to make the gui out of sync indication a little less hyperactive?
1222 2012-04-02 18:27:27 dvide has joined
1223 2012-04-02 18:27:36 <Diapolo> I can commit that color, I'm fine with that ^^.
1224 2012-04-02 18:27:48 <wumpus> gmaxwell: hahaha
1225 2012-04-02 18:28:06 <Diapolo> You mean that spinning icon in the lower right? It's a movie.
1226 2012-04-02 18:28:16 <wumpus> let's make it into a spinning puppy
1227 2012-04-02 18:28:34 <Diapolo> or a rotating bitcoin
1228 2012-04-02 18:28:40 <wumpus> maybe it goes too fast though
1229 2012-04-02 18:28:46 <gmaxwell> hah, that wasn't actually what I was talking about. I mean that right now when the block gap goes over an hour it starts showing synchronizing.
1230 2012-04-02 18:29:18 <Graet> not my thing, but ponies seem popular mthese days, maybe a spinning pony :P
1231 2012-04-02 18:29:49 <wumpus> an hour is too soon?
1232 2012-04-02 18:29:59 <gmaxwell> increasing that to 90 minutes or so would make it only happen about 6.4 times per year. 120 minutes would be once per three years.
1233 2012-04-02 18:30:08 <wumpus> it's half an hour even
1234 2012-04-02 18:30:15 <gmaxwell> half!
1235 2012-04-02 18:30:18 <wumpus> maybe increase it to an hour first?
1236 2012-04-02 18:30:20 <wumpus> yes.
1237 2012-04-02 18:30:29 <wumpus>     if(secs < 30*60)
1238 2012-04-02 18:30:33 <gmaxwell> hah.. well at half an hour it should do it 7 times a day on average.
1239 2012-04-02 18:30:45 <gmaxwell> an hour is once every three days.
1240 2012-04-02 18:31:29 <Diapolo> so my pull request got an color update ... LOL
1241 2012-04-02 18:32:15 <Diapolo> fuck wrong branch -_-
1242 2012-04-02 18:32:35 <wumpus> let's increase it to 90 minutes then, I don't really see a problem with it (the only disadvantage is that you notice it later if you're not receiving new blocks, then again, it's not reliable this way anyway )
1243 2012-04-02 18:32:49 <gmaxwell> Right.
1244 2012-04-02 18:32:57 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1245 2012-04-02 18:37:04 <user__> diapolo: how the sycnhr.. bar will look on new gui?
1246 2012-04-02 18:38:33 <Diapolo> I don't know as I don't have access to that ... and I hope that will not get the final new design ;).
1247 2012-04-02 18:39:21 <user__> diapolo: do't you like that?
1248 2012-04-02 18:39:27 <user__> don't
1249 2012-04-02 18:39:39 <Diapolo> Guys I need help with that damn IPC thing ... testing code and working on it. I have been told not to open pull requests for unfinished code (which I understand, but did not know how to handle this).
1250 2012-04-02 18:40:00 <wumpus> boost::ipc is fatally broken on windows
1251 2012-04-02 18:40:08 <Diapolo> I'm not warm with the new design currently, so yes.
1252 2012-04-02 18:40:32 <Diapolo> Let's discuss a little wumpus.
1253 2012-04-02 18:40:44 <wumpus> I don't think there is a solution until upstream is fixed, seems gavin doesn't like the monkey patch :/
1254 2012-04-02 18:41:11 <gavinandresen> So don't use boost::ipc ....
1255 2012-04-02 18:41:27 <gavinandresen> Doesn't Qt have a cross-platform IPC mechanism?
1256 2012-04-02 18:41:32 <wumpus> nope
1257 2012-04-02 18:41:39 <Diapolo> I took me so many fucking hours to get it to that state ... only thing that needs fixing is the deadlock. The rest seems okay on Windows.
1258 2012-04-02 18:41:50 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: laanwj opened pull request 1026 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1026>
1259 2012-04-02 18:41:58 <wumpus> it can use dbus for ipc but that's not available on windows...
1260 2012-04-02 18:42:16 PK has quit (dinner!~PK@pdpc/supporter/active/pk|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1261 2012-04-02 18:42:38 <Diapolo> *says hello to Gavin*
1262 2012-04-02 18:43:17 <gavinandresen> I don't like monkey-patching because it is way too easy to forget that we monkey-patched, then upgrade to a later version of boost, and have Bad Things happen.
1263 2012-04-02 18:43:22 PK has joined
1264 2012-04-02 18:43:38 <wumpus> I *think* most windows program use a custom message with win32 SendMessage for IPC
1265 2012-04-02 18:43:51 <wumpus> special casing is not nice though
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1269 2012-04-02 18:44:01 <Diapolo> But that would create non platform independent code ...
1270 2012-04-02 18:45:04 <wumpus> the other option would be a local network socket... but that doesn't really feel secure
1271 2012-04-02 18:45:34 TD has joined
1272 2012-04-02 18:45:40 <Diapolo> What is worse, not be able to use URI handling on Win, which is a pretty cool feature or use a patch that makes it work and is known to the boost devs and get's hopefully fixed with 1.5?
1273 2012-04-02 18:46:01 <wumpus> let's go prod the boost developers :p
1274 2012-04-02 18:47:08 <Diapolo> ^^
1275 2012-04-02 18:47:18 * luke-jr goes to bring his sword and prod the nearest one.
1276 2012-04-02 18:47:24 smoothie has quit (Quit: changing servers)
1277 2012-04-02 18:47:35 <Diapolo> Go for a crit Luke!
1278 2012-04-02 18:47:49 <gavinandresen> Find a way for the monkey-patch to fail immediately and loudly if applied to the wrong version of boost and I'll reconsider
1279 2012-04-02 18:48:54 smoothie has joined
1280 2012-04-02 18:48:55 <Diapolo> To make it clear, by monkey patch you mean the edit in the boost .hpp files?
1281 2012-04-02 18:49:02 <gavinandresen> yes
1282 2012-04-02 18:49:24 <gavinandresen> monkey patching is modifying somebody else's code
1283 2012-04-02 18:49:46 <wumpus> at run time
1284 2012-04-02 18:49:55 <wumpus> for extra effect
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1289 2012-04-02 18:50:35 <Diapolo> got it, hmm
1290 2012-04-02 18:50:38 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: #if can do that
1291 2012-04-02 18:51:02 h4ckm3 has joined
1292 2012-04-02 18:51:15 <luke-jr> wumpus: runtime makes no sense, since boost::interprocess is entirely compile-time
1293 2012-04-02 18:51:16 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: #if and #error, I know....
1294 2012-04-02 18:51:51 <wumpus> luke-jr: in this case it makes no sense, but the best monkey-patches directly patch binary code :-)
1295 2012-04-02 18:51:56 <Diapolo> perhaps a #define or sth. like that, which forces an compilation with the unpatched version somehow
1296 2012-04-02 18:52:12 <wumpus> just make it fail hard with the wrong boost version
1297 2012-04-02 18:52:14 <gavinandresen> fine, whatever the term is for patching sources just before you build.  baboon patching.
1298 2012-04-02 18:52:28 <wumpus> gavinandresen: hehe
1299 2012-04-02 18:52:35 <Diapolo> compilation error ... yes
1300 2012-04-02 18:52:43 gfinn has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1301 2012-04-02 18:52:45 <wumpus> yes at compile time error
1302 2012-04-02 18:53:31 <Diapolo> the code changes are in tmp_dir_helpers.hpp
1303 2012-04-02 18:54:45 <Diapolo> + win32_api.hpp
1304 2012-04-02 18:58:48 <Diapolo> What about adding a #define BOOST_INTERPORCESS_BC_MONKEY_PATCH into the modified .hpp files and use #ifndef in the bc client code?
1305 2012-04-02 19:00:50 <wumpus> could be, but in that case it'd fail silently when the monkey patch fails and disable the url handling
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1307 2012-04-02 19:02:02 <gavinandresen> I think you want #ifndef BOOST_VERSION_whatever-the-version-is-that-should-be-monkey-patched   then fail hard.
1308 2012-04-02 19:02:27 <Diapolo> no we could add a call to monkey_patch_reminder(); which does not exists via #ifndef BOOST_INTERPORCESS_BC_MONKEY_PATCH
1309 2012-04-02 19:03:04 <Diapolo> this would generate a compilation error, as there is NO monkey_patch_reminder() ^^
1310 2012-04-02 19:03:32 <gavinandresen> That's what #error is for
1311 2012-04-02 19:03:57 <gavinandresen> I think boost has something for nice compile-time errors, too
1312 2012-04-02 19:04:11 <gavinandresen> afk for a while
1313 2012-04-02 19:04:21 <wumpus> later
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1315 2012-04-02 19:06:13 <Diapolo> Would that work? BOOST_STATIC_ASSERT(BOOST_INTERPORCESS_BC_MONKEY_PATCH); -> http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_49_0/doc/html/boost_staticassert.html
1316 2012-04-02 19:08:28 <Diapolo> seems to work :) nice
1317 2012-04-02 19:08:36 zeiris has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1318 2012-04-02 19:08:54 <Diapolo> #define BOOST_INTERPORCESS_BC_MONKEY_PATCH 1 in the editted files and BOOST_STATIC_ASSERT(BOOST_INTERPORCESS_BC_MONKEY_PATCH); in qtipcserver.h
1319 2012-04-02 19:09:25 <wumpus> or add this to the monkey patch:   #if BOOST_VERSION != 0x123456   #error Monkey patch only works for Boost X.X.X #endif
1320 2012-04-02 19:10:55 <wumpus> if you do a check in qtipcserver make sure that you only do it for win32
1321 2012-04-02 19:12:31 <Diapolo> right
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1323 2012-04-02 19:13:59 Diapolo_ has joined
1324 2012-04-02 19:14:11 <Diapolo_> damn that web irc thing timed out ...
1325 2012-04-02 19:15:33 phma has joined
1326 2012-04-02 19:15:41 <Graet> they do Diapolo :)
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1330 2012-04-02 19:16:26 <wumpus> on the #bitcoin channel people are also complaining about the web irc, seems a common problem
1331 2012-04-02 19:16:52 Diapolo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1332 2012-04-02 19:19:11 <Diapolo_> wumpus that pull request https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/986/files does the fix for 1.47 with 1.49 another file needs changes, too ... is there a chance to got to 1.49, because of the massive other under the hood fixes?
1333 2012-04-02 19:21:47 <wumpus> for 0.7.0, probably, for 0.6.1 I don't think we should change the boost version (but maybe bluematt has other opinion on this)
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1335 2012-04-02 19:23:52 <Diapolo_> I'm fine if it's not in 0.6.1, but it needs some love and I need help to verify my code works on other platforms, which I can't test :-/.
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1337 2012-04-02 19:28:30 <luke-jr> wumpus: IPC doesn't sound like a 0.6.1 thing anyway, is it?
1338 2012-04-02 19:28:46 <wumpus> I have no idea
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1340 2012-04-02 19:29:08 <Diapolo_> could you talk to him, I'm gonna go over the next minutes
1341 2012-04-02 19:29:20 <Diapolo_> I rebased the other pull request!
1342 2012-04-02 19:29:24 <wumpus> there was talk of it being in 0.6.1, given that boost could be fixed
1343 2012-04-02 19:29:29 <wumpus> I have to go too
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1347 2012-04-02 19:30:45 <Diapolo_> I'll be back sometime tomorrow ... it's nice here :).
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1353 2012-04-02 19:38:20 <Diapolo_> bye bye I'm off
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1358 2012-04-02 19:52:26 <helo> should mouseover from File->Sign Message address selection box say "The address to send the payment to", and be using the address book icon?
1359 2012-04-02 19:54:14 <helo> lazy copypasta
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1364 2012-04-02 20:02:17 <BlueMatt> wumpus: ,,(later tell Diapolo I dont have any opinion on boost version changes.  Id say keep it the same unless we have a very clear reason to upgrade for 0.6.1, 0.7, do what you want)
1365 2012-04-02 20:02:18 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
1366 2012-04-02 20:02:36 <BlueMatt> woo, fun way to send a message to one person online and another not at the same time :)
1367 2012-04-02 20:02:51 <BlueMatt> thanks nanotube
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1435 2012-04-02 20:41:50 <forsetifox> gavinandresen: Are you here?
1436 2012-04-02 20:42:03 <gavinandresen> yes
1437 2012-04-02 20:42:15 <forsetifox> How long does it take for a invalid block to show up as orphan?
1438 2012-04-02 20:42:38 <forsetifox> Because it looks like there's 2 valid chains now. 2 blocks deep that started with an invalid from ozcoin.
1439 2012-04-02 20:42:59 <forsetifox> 174051
1440 2012-04-02 20:43:00 Ahimoth has joined
1441 2012-04-02 20:43:40 <gavinandresen> I thought ozcoin fixed their bitcoind...
1442 2012-04-02 20:43:54 <forsetifox> Yeah. He said he did.
1443 2012-04-02 20:43:55 <twmz> the current forks started by 50btc
1444 2012-04-02 20:44:10 <twmz> ozcoin is on the "correct" side of the competing forks this time
1445 2012-04-02 20:44:15 welterde has joined
1446 2012-04-02 20:44:54 <twmz> the "incorrect" side of the fork has 50btc and the unupgraded p2pool fork and another MM block
1447 2012-04-02 20:45:45 <gavinandresen> That fork will lose soon.
1448 2012-04-02 20:46:04 <gavinandresen> ... where "soon" is sometime in the next few hours, almost certainly.
1449 2012-04-02 20:47:15 <gmaxwell> they're tied now.. no biggie.
1450 2012-04-02 20:47:22 <twmz> forsetifox: the answer to your original question is, "as long as it takes for another chain to be longer".  at this time, the two forks are of equal length.  but since >70% of the mining hash power is only going to extend the "correct" fork, it will eventually win.
1451 2012-04-02 20:47:48 <helo> poor little invalid miners
1452 2012-04-02 20:48:01 <forsetifox> nod twmz
1453 2012-04-02 20:48:06 <gmaxwell> We've had 15 of these forks now... all resolved neatly.
1454 2012-04-02 20:48:09 <helo> nice 25% reduction in mining difficulty for valid miners :)
1455 2012-04-02 20:48:16 <gavinandresen> You can lead their horse to water, but if they decided to get off the horse then....
1456 2012-04-02 20:50:46 <gmaxwell> helo: not that much.. since e.g. mm only extends already invalid chains, he doesn't start new ones.
1457 2012-04-02 20:51:12 bitcoinbulletin has joined
1458 2012-04-02 20:52:07 <gmaxwell> oh 50btc is 3% fee PPS... I guess thats why their miners haven't all left.
1459 2012-04-02 20:57:59 <sturles> Yep.  Send your hashes there!  Mine for the same income while lowering difficulty at the same time, and you are not even cheating!
1460 2012-04-02 20:58:05 <sturles> :-)
1461 2012-04-02 21:00:30 conman has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1462 2012-04-02 21:03:06 <gmaxwell> sturles: won't work so well when they can't make payments.
1463 2012-04-02 21:05:44 <sturles> They will fix it eventually, I hope..
1464 2012-04-02 21:07:46 BGL has joined
1465 2012-04-02 21:11:29 <Eliel> who is MM?
1466 2012-04-02 21:11:34 <Eliel> ... oh, mystery miner
1467 2012-04-02 21:11:38 * BlueMatt is MM
1468 2012-04-02 21:12:16 * BlueMatt was expecting more of a Spartacus moment there...
1469 2012-04-02 21:14:42 <gavinandresen> There we go, fork resolved.
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1471 2012-04-02 21:16:21 <forsetifox> Yeah. The orphaned blocks page seems to be more accurate than pulling up the individual block specs.
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1485 2012-04-02 21:36:29 <nanotube> BlueMatt: :D
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1491 2012-04-02 21:53:21 <gmaxwell> FWIW the p2pool on that dying fork is an unupgraded forked p2pool network.
1492 2012-04-02 21:53:44 <gmaxwell> (demonstrating for luke that forrestv doesn't have centreal control over p2pool— the users are free to screw themselves!)
1493 2012-04-02 21:55:21 dbe has joined
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1495 2012-04-02 21:56:50 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: thats not true
1496 2012-04-02 21:57:07 <Diablo-D3> he can just go ahead and tell bitcoin to reject less than version 4 of the p2pool protocol
1497 2012-04-02 21:57:08 <Diablo-D3> err
1498 2012-04-02 21:57:12 <Diablo-D3> tell p2pool
1499 2012-04-02 21:57:22 <Diablo-D3> which would completely cut them off altogether
1500 2012-04-02 21:57:32 <forrestv> they are cut off
1501 2012-04-02 21:57:56 <forrestv> and i have what you just proposed as a commit sitting locally that i intent to push soon
1502 2012-04-02 22:00:29 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: they're cut off— and still solving blocks.
1503 2012-04-02 22:01:29 <Diablo-D3> they're not cut off
1504 2012-04-02 22:01:31 <gmaxwell> and if not for the fact that they were cutoff for being broken with respect to p2sh— if it were just some pool policy thing, they'd keep on runing without issue so long as their operators wished to keep them so.
1505 2012-04-02 22:01:33 dlb76 has joined
1506 2012-04-02 22:01:38 <Diablo-D3> I still see version 3 connects in my logs
1507 2012-04-02 22:02:08 luke-jr_ has quit (Excess Flood)
1508 2012-04-02 22:02:21 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: nodes prior to 3.10 just get hung up on. Thats why they solved a different sharechain that didn't pay to any of the normal miers.
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1510 2012-04-02 22:05:04 <Diablo-D3> ahh
1511 2012-04-02 22:05:06 <Diablo-D3> the log is unclear
1512 2012-04-02 22:05:10 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt say its rejected
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1516 2012-04-02 22:17:50 <k9quaint> this is an interesting situation for examining how BTC resolves inconsistencies in the block-chain participants
1517 2012-04-02 22:20:18 <gmaxwell> I'm _really_ glad we had that accidental fork and found that reorg bug that sipa fixed.
1518 2012-04-02 22:20:29 <gmaxwell> Some of these forks have had a fair number of transactions.
1519 2012-04-02 22:21:04 <gmaxwell> of course, that means that some nodes still may get stuck— but at least the fix is out and widely deployed already.
1520 2012-04-02 22:21:50 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: wait wait wait
1521 2012-04-02 22:22:12 <Diablo-D3> the one where my bitcoin client decided to stop being part of the main chain until I nuked the chain and redownloaded?
1522 2012-04-02 22:22:49 <gmaxwell> Yes.
1523 2012-04-02 22:22:59 <gmaxwell> The bug that caused that is fixed now.
1524 2012-04-02 22:24:41 <Diablo-D3> that was a fucking shit bug.
1525 2012-04-02 22:24:47 <Diablo-D3> I wonder how many bitcoin users ragequit because of it
1526 2012-04-02 22:33:55 <gmaxwell> Probably ~none since you only would have been hit if you were running 0.6.0rc1 or git from around that time.
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1528 2012-04-02 22:36:53 <Diablo-D3> erm
1529 2012-04-02 22:36:58 <Diablo-D3> but I wasnt running 0.6.0 then
1530 2012-04-02 22:37:03 <Diablo-D3> 0.6.0 didnt exist yet
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1546 2012-04-02 23:30:21 <Dingharlio> The mystery miner IP address who tried to orphan the chain is 71.123.170.150 which comes back to a reverse lookup website of brwyatt.net and brwyatt.com. Has this come up before? The site appears to be a blogging/server site for Bryan Wyatt. I doubt finding our myster miner would be so easy but it is worth a mention.
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1549 2012-04-02 23:31:40 <denisx> this is motly only the adress which relayed the block
1550 2012-04-02 23:31:46 <denisx> mostly
1551 2012-04-02 23:31:46 <Dingharlio> good point
1552 2012-04-02 23:32:18 <Dingharlio> Same IP relayed all 3 of the latest blocks from MM
1553 2012-04-02 23:33:05 <denisx> ask this guy for the debug.log then! ;)
1554 2012-04-02 23:33:55 <Dingharlio> I wouln't know well enough to see a Bitcoin transaction relayed but one of you could.
1555 2012-04-02 23:37:32 MrJiffy has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1556 2012-04-02 23:42:01 <Dingharlio> The IP address is also registered as a spambot at zen.spamhaus.org
1557 2012-04-02 23:43:25 underscor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1558 2012-04-02 23:47:43 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1559 2012-04-02 23:48:54 <midnightmagic> lol botnet evidence, awesome.
1560 2012-04-02 23:50:59 <Joric> http://bitcoincharts.com shows network hashrate went down lately
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1562 2012-04-02 23:55:24 <BlueMatt> Not surprising given bip16
1563 2012-04-02 23:56:20 tower has joined
1564 2012-04-02 23:56:54 <BlueMatt> Though its really too early to tell how much we lost (dont think its much)