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  20 2012-04-03 00:54:44 <nanotube> Dingharlio: there's a brwyat on #bitcoin ...
  21 2012-04-03 00:54:55 MrJiffy has joined
  22 2012-04-03 00:54:57 <nanotube> did you send him an email?
  23 2012-04-03 00:55:06 <nanotube> he's asking for "adam@bitcoinmagazine.co.uk"
  24 2012-04-03 00:55:11 <nanotube> guess someone sent him an email. :)
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  29 2012-04-03 01:01:35 <brwyatt> Hey, I'm the unlucky guy who got assigned 71.123.170.150 on sunday...
  30 2012-04-03 01:01:39 splatster has joined
  31 2012-04-03 01:02:03 <brwyatt> (for lack of better words)
  32 2012-04-03 01:02:15 <brwyatt> #bitcoin said I should come in here.
  33 2012-04-03 01:02:21 denisx has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  34 2012-04-03 01:02:21 denisx_ is now known as denisx
  35 2012-04-03 01:02:33 <OneFixt> gmaxwell: ^
  36 2012-04-03 01:02:50 <OneFixt> nanotube: ^
  37 2012-04-03 01:02:58 <sipa> brwyatt: not sure how much we can still find out; bitcoin does not log IP addresses for most activity
  38 2012-04-03 01:03:22 <brwyatt> Well, I'm willing to help as much as I can...
  39 2012-04-03 01:03:47 <brwyatt> If my server or any of my computers (this is a home network) are infected, I want to make sure to stomp it out.
  40 2012-04-03 01:04:11 <brwyatt> I did also get an email about this BEFORE my IP changed to 71.123.170.150... So, I'm quite concerned.
  41 2012-04-03 01:05:45 dbe has joined
  42 2012-04-03 01:05:59 <nanotube> OneFixt: i'm the one who directed him here. but thanks :)
  43 2012-04-03 01:06:27 <nanotube> well, there's not necessarily any reason to believe there's compromise.
  44 2012-04-03 01:06:29 <OneFixt> just making sure =)
  45 2012-04-03 01:06:31 <nanotube> all nodes relay blocks.
  46 2012-04-03 01:06:40 <nanotube> (but it never hurts to check )
  47 2012-04-03 01:06:51 <brwyatt> Well, I also turned my bitcoin clients off on saturday
  48 2012-04-03 01:08:17 <brwyatt> (when I got the first email, and before the IP change to the much talked about one)
  49 2012-04-03 01:10:22 <luke-jr_> O.o
  50 2012-04-03 01:11:51 <Dingharlio> Hi Bryan, these guys are the ones who can help you. We spoke in email.
  51 2012-04-03 01:12:12 <Dingharlio> His IP relayed the 3 blocks mentioned earlier
  52 2012-04-03 01:12:19 <brwyatt> Dingharlio: so you are the one from today?
  53 2012-04-03 01:12:22 <Dingharlio> yes
  54 2012-04-03 01:12:25 <brwyatt> Alright
  55 2012-04-03 01:12:35 <brwyatt> Dingharlio: When were those blocks relayed?
  56 2012-04-03 01:12:40 <sipa> There's no reason to assume your node is infected by anything - relaying blocks is just normal operation.
  57 2012-04-03 01:13:03 <luke-jr_> sipa: he just said he quit Bitcoin before the IP
  58 2012-04-03 01:13:14 <sipa> Hmm...
  59 2012-04-03 01:13:16 <Dingharlio> 2012-03-31 08:02:19 , 8:04 and 8:51
  60 2012-04-03 01:13:40 <brwyatt> So, saturday...
  61 2012-04-03 01:13:52 <brwyatt> Interestingly, I did get an email about it on saturday as well
  62 2012-04-03 01:13:53 <Dingharlio> well it is possible he wasnt infected but was for some reason selected by the botnet to relay the blocks
  63 2012-04-03 01:14:41 dbe has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  64 2012-04-03 01:15:10 <Dingharlio> Were you still running the client at that time?
  65 2012-04-03 01:15:39 <brwyatt> For the first email? Yes. I shut them down shortly after reading that email.
  66 2012-04-03 01:16:31 <Dingharlio> That is the last one I know of. Its actually the only one I bothered checking to be honest. So that was your IP at the time and your bitcoin clients were active.
  67 2012-04-03 01:16:50 dbe has joined
  68 2012-04-03 01:17:55 <brwyatt> I'm pretty sure it was a different IP. The guy who emailed me accessed my site via the IP address. LEt me look it up real fast
  69 2012-04-03 01:20:47 <brwyatt> Actually, looks like it is actually the 71.123.170.150 IP address
  70 2012-04-03 01:20:59 <brwyatt> Perhaps it did not change
  71 2012-04-03 01:21:14 <brwyatt> I'm going to try and figure out the lease information
  72 2012-04-03 01:24:17 <brwyatt> (My father technically owns the network connection, my server is just in the DMZ and is the router for my subnet)
  73 2012-04-03 01:26:24 <brwyatt> Actually, appears I have things backwards.
  74 2012-04-03 01:26:43 <brwyatt> It did change on sunday, but it changed to 71.252.154.11 from the other one in question
  75 2012-04-03 01:27:02 <brwyatt> Sorry about that
  76 2012-04-03 01:29:10 <Dingharlio> Ok but your IP was the address in question when the blocks relayed from that IP tried to fork the chain. We might be able to find some useful information is what I am thinking.
  77 2012-04-03 01:29:20 <brwyatt> Yes
  78 2012-04-03 01:29:29 <brwyatt> Which is both good and bad news.
  79 2012-04-03 01:29:32 <sipa> Do you have a debug.log left from then?
  80 2012-04-03 01:29:40 <brwyatt> I may.
  81 2012-04-03 01:29:44 <brwyatt> let me check
  82 2012-04-03 01:29:57 <sipa> (it has no timestamps, so it may be... hard to locate)
  83 2012-04-03 01:30:34 <denisx> the default is no timestamps
  84 2012-04-03 01:31:01 <brwyatt> I'm assuming this is bitcoin's logs, correct?
  85 2012-04-03 01:31:06 <sipa> yes
  86 2012-04-03 01:32:16 <brwyatt> I'm not seeing anything that would have that in my home directory or /var/log
  87 2012-04-03 01:32:32 <denisx> look in .bitcoin
  88 2012-04-03 01:32:39 <denisx> in your home
  89 2012-04-03 01:33:35 <brwyatt> I don't have one... That was the first thing I looked for
  90 2012-04-03 01:34:04 <brwyatt> In either root's directory or my user directory
  91 2012-04-03 01:35:07 <Dingharlio> I dont have anything in my root bitcoin directory. I am guessing it is stored in user data
  92 2012-04-03 01:35:21 <denisx> what OS do you have?
  93 2012-04-03 01:35:26 <brwyatt> This is Debian
  94 2012-04-03 01:37:18 <brwyatt> I can provide that I was running 0.5.0
  95 2012-04-03 01:37:52 <luke-jr_> brwyatt: upgrade to 0.5.4 before using it again :p
  96 2012-04-03 01:37:56 <brwyatt> One instance of bitcoind which should have been running over Tor (but Tor has been off for a while anyway) and one instance of bitcoin-qt running in xpra
  97 2012-04-03 01:38:02 <brwyatt> luke-jr_: can do.
  98 2012-04-03 01:38:07 luke-jr_ is now known as luke-jr
  99 2012-04-03 01:38:41 <brwyatt> It needs an apt repo (if it doesn't already have one)
 100 2012-04-03 01:38:53 <brwyatt> Actually... let me check my bitcoin.conf(s)
 101 2012-04-03 01:40:06 <brwyatt> Yup, there it is. I had manually set the datadirs
 102 2012-04-03 01:40:39 toffoo has quit ()
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 104 2012-04-03 01:43:59 <brwyatt> It is 1.4GB... I'm assuming you won't need or want all of it
 105 2012-04-03 01:44:47 minjin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 106 2012-04-03 01:45:23 <Dingharlio> He found the log file guys... What do we want out of it?
 107 2012-04-03 01:46:22 <brwyatt> Dingharlio: It really helps to remember that you moved it manually so it resided all on your encrypted RAID. lol
 108 2012-04-03 01:46:42 dbe has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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 110 2012-04-03 01:47:35 <Dingharlio> Yes it always helps to know where you put your files when you go to look for them.
 111 2012-04-03 01:48:38 <brwyatt> I wrote scripts to help me mange starting bitcoin and all that, so I've never needed to remember. but yes, it does.
 112 2012-04-03 01:50:28 dbe has joined
 113 2012-04-03 01:51:19 <Dingharlio> Looking my log file Bryan I dont see any timestamps on the data but interestingly mine is only 192kb not 1.4gb
 114 2012-04-03 01:51:43 <brwyatt> Last 5000 lines should be enough though, right?
 115 2012-04-03 01:52:53 <Dingharlio> I am not the expert. They are here in this room. I would think the additional size might be due to the suspcious activity and the whole thing may be useful.
 116 2012-04-03 01:53:49 dbe has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 117 2012-04-03 01:53:49 <brwyatt> Maybe? I've tailed the last 5k lines, those are only 262.1KB
 118 2012-04-03 01:54:03 <brwyatt> We could always start with that.
 119 2012-04-03 01:54:09 <Dingharlio> Couldnt hurt
 120 2012-04-03 01:54:17 <brwyatt> DELETING IT>
 121 2012-04-03 01:54:24 <brwyatt> >>>
 122 2012-04-03 01:54:34 <brwyatt> Sorry, things are lagging a bit trying to load.
 123 2012-04-03 01:54:48 <brwyatt> *I don't plan on deleting it.
 124 2012-04-03 01:54:59 <Dingharlio> I figured you were being wise
 125 2012-04-03 01:55:35 <brwyatt> I was trying to open the file in GEdit... not a great idea, for the record.
 126 2012-04-03 01:55:45 <egecko> hehehe
 127 2012-04-03 01:56:05 <brwyatt> A lot of lines like: received getdata for: block 00000000000020a631eb
 128 2012-04-03 01:56:44 <luke-jr> brwyatt: I think the apt repo has 0.6.0 now
 129 2012-04-03 01:57:00 <brwyatt> luke-jr: I should probably add that repo, then.
 130 2012-04-03 01:57:06 <luke-jr> it's for Ubuntu tho, not Debian
 131 2012-04-03 01:57:18 <brwyatt> eh, I'm sure I could make it work.
 132 2012-04-03 02:02:00 <luke-jr> ;;bc,gen 1192000
 133 2012-04-03 02:02:01 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1192000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1626553.4813289 , is 0.737109135002 BTC per day and 0.0307128806251 BTC per hour.
 134 2012-04-03 02:05:11 <brwyatt> So I'm trying to determine, before sending, what all kinds of data is in debug.log
 135 2012-04-03 02:05:19 abracadabra has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 136 2012-04-03 02:05:45 <brwyatt> I assume it is just a log of all transactions that are broadcast to it and that it, in turn, sends out?
 137 2012-04-03 02:05:58 <luke-jr> brwyatt: everything
 138 2012-04-03 02:06:37 <brwyatt> Well, I think more my question is, does it log my addresses, does it log any transactions I've made, etc?
 139 2012-04-03 02:07:07 <luke-jr> yes
 140 2012-04-03 02:07:09 <brwyatt> Granted, I don't make many, and that info getting out isn't an issue... but, based on principle...
 141 2012-04-03 02:07:35 <brwyatt> How would I find that? I know when the last transaction I made was.... And that was a few weeks ago.
 142 2012-04-03 02:07:47 <brwyatt> So I could probably use that to narrow the time frame
 143 2012-04-03 02:07:56 <Dingharlio> Do you know the block number the transaction was made on?
 144 2012-04-03 02:08:44 <Dingharlio> I assume the file appends every time it receives new data and I see block data so if you know the block you should be able to know where to cut off. Depending on how long you have been infected, the moment of infection could have been recorded too but might be before that time frame
 145 2012-04-03 02:08:47 <brwyatt> 172102
 146 2012-04-03 02:09:43 <brwyatt> How is the block/transaction data logged?
 147 2012-04-03 02:09:50 Insti has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 148 2012-04-03 02:10:24 <Dingharlio> I am guessing that the height=xxxxxx is the block number. Can anyone confirm?
 149 2012-04-03 02:10:50 paraipan has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 150 2012-04-03 02:11:28 OneFixt has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 151 2012-04-03 02:11:55 <brwyatt> That appears to be correct... as far as I can see.
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 158 2012-04-03 02:21:02 <Dingharlio> Well we havent been corrected so lets assume we are right. How do you want to send us the file?
 159 2012-04-03 02:21:02 <brwyatt> Okay, so from the last mention of block 172102 until saturday when I turned it off is still 273,479 lines
 160 2012-04-03 02:21:15 <brwyatt> If you guys want that, I can provide it.
 161 2012-04-03 02:21:37 <brwyatt> I'll just post it up on my website, if y'all have no objections?
 162 2012-04-03 02:21:48 <Dingharlio> I don't see any problem with that.
 163 2012-04-03 02:22:37 Insti has joined
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 165 2012-04-03 02:24:04 <brwyatt> https://brwyatt.net/files/debug.log
 166 2012-04-03 02:24:08 vextr has joined
 167 2012-04-03 02:24:39 <brwyatt> That's the last 273,479 lines, and everything since block 172,102
 168 2012-04-03 02:25:24 <brwyatt> And from bitcoin-qt 0.5.0 on Debian 6
 169 2012-04-03 02:25:42 <Dingharlio> lol made my browser window crash. Lets see if I can download it directly.
 170 2012-04-03 02:26:44 <Dingharlio> Thank you Bryan, I hope we can get some useful information out of this
 171 2012-04-03 02:26:59 <brwyatt> If there is anything else you need, I can be contacted at gtalk: brwyatt@gmail.com AIM: brwyatt456 or email: webmaster@brwyatt.net (or from my site's contact page if you forget)
 172 2012-04-03 02:27:05 <brwyatt> Dingharlio: I hope it helps.
 173 2012-04-03 02:27:37 <brwyatt> I'll keep myself in these channels as well
 174 2012-04-03 02:28:16 <brwyatt> (in case I'm needed for anything, and for any information y'all might find)
 175 2012-04-03 02:28:17 <Dingharlio> If there is anything else needed I am sure the right person will contact you if you are around here.
 176 2012-04-03 02:28:30 <brwyatt> Thanks.
 177 2012-04-03 02:30:55 <Graet> interesting stuff, good on you for stepping up brwyatt :)
 178 2012-04-03 02:31:48 <brwyatt> Well, 1) if there is a problem on my network: I want to know about it 2) I care about the health and strength of the bitcoin network... so...
 179 2012-04-03 02:32:02 <brwyatt> I really had no choice but to try and help
 180 2012-04-03 02:32:10 <brwyatt> Or provide as much as I can to help
 181 2012-04-03 02:33:25 JZavala has joined
 182 2012-04-03 02:33:37 <Graet> true, but not everyone makes that chioce - for various reasons :)
 183 2012-04-03 02:36:37 <brwyatt> luke-jr: I authorized you, but forgot to add. Can you send me a message?
 184 2012-04-03 02:36:59 <luke-jr> brwyatt: … not possible lol
 185 2012-04-03 02:37:12 <brwyatt> Ah, there you are.
 186 2012-04-03 02:37:38 <brwyatt> I think maybe I added you under "buddies" or something instead of my "contacts" group
 187 2012-04-03 02:39:39 <denisx> which block are we looking for?
 188 2012-04-03 02:39:44 <denisx> 173484?
 189 2012-04-03 02:41:13 <Dingharlio> 173692-173694
 190 2012-04-03 02:41:56 <Dingharlio> Those are 3 I know for sure. There are also duplicates that were orphaned when the three were pushed on the network all at once. around 8:50
 191 2012-04-03 02:43:34 <Dingharlio> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67634.msg828776#msg828776 - More background information
 192 2012-04-03 02:44:20 <denisx> uniq debug.log > debug.log
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 202 2012-04-03 03:04:44 <Dingharlio> So I may have found something. Right before block 173692 there is a connection from 87.211.24.239:50750. All other connections are from port 8333 so that is the first red flag. I did a lookup on the ip and it comes back to a netherlands ip and is also blacklisted on zen.spamhaus.org like Bryans IP. I couldn't find any evidence of it being a Tor node either.
 203 2012-04-03 03:06:54 <Graet> Diablo-D3, gmaxwell will the top 9 pools be updated to top 10 again soon? nthe way ars is going it will propably drop out, i guess there would be a couple of pools appreciating the promotion :P
 204 2012-04-03 03:07:23 <denisx> I would like to get promotion! ;)
 205 2012-04-03 03:07:44 <Graet> me promotes denisx to sgt denisx
 206 2012-04-03 03:07:44 <Graet> :)
 207 2012-04-03 03:07:59 <denisx> sir, yes, sir
 208 2012-04-03 03:08:02 <BlueMatt> Dingharlio: when you say "blacklisted" by zen.spamhaus, what is the return code?
 209 2012-04-03 03:08:04 <Graet> hehe :)
 210 2012-04-03 03:08:11 <BlueMatt> because most of the ips in use are on the zen blacklist
 211 2012-04-03 03:08:53 <Dingharlio> I just did a basic check. Let me see if I can find the code. The interesting thing here is the port number. Also there is some weird time shifting table shortly after
 212 2012-04-03 03:10:04 <Dingharlio> BlueMatt: End-user Non-MTA IP addresses set by ISP outbound mail policy
 213 2012-04-03 03:10:16 knotwork has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 214 2012-04-03 03:10:20 <Dingharlio> so it doesn't sound like that might mean much.
 215 2012-04-03 03:10:27 <BlueMatt> in other words it is an end-user ip
 216 2012-04-03 03:10:43 <BlueMatt> ie an ip assigned to someone behind a regular average-joe internet connection
 217 2012-04-03 03:11:10 <Diablo-D3> Graet: I do the top 10
 218 2012-04-03 03:11:16 <Diablo-D3> I update it once a month
 219 2012-04-03 03:11:18 <BlueMatt> I mean, any botnet-hosted block sender would be, but it doesnt really indicate much
 220 2012-04-03 03:11:23 <Diablo-D3> I guess its almost time to update it again
 221 2012-04-03 03:11:30 <Graet> :)
 222 2012-04-03 03:11:41 <Graet> i think so man, sorta getting out of date ;)
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 230 2012-04-03 03:27:07 <Dingharlio> Hey should there be an IRC reference in the log file?
 231 2012-04-03 03:27:32 <Dingharlio> IRC Got Join after some weird errors and accepting an orphan transaction
 232 2012-04-03 03:29:32 <Dingharlio> It also appears right before block 173694 is referenced
 233 2012-04-03 03:33:32 <luke-jr> sounds like 0.5
 234 2012-04-03 03:33:33 <BlueMatt> yea, bitcoin uses irc as a bootstrap mechanism
 235 2012-04-03 03:33:46 <BlueMatt> (but it was disabled in 0.6, by default)
 236 2012-04-03 03:33:51 <BlueMatt> or was it 0.6?
 237 2012-04-03 03:37:56 abracadab is now known as abracadabra
 238 2012-04-03 03:39:49 <Dingharlio> it was 5.3
 239 2012-04-03 03:40:22 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Man who run behind car get exhausted)
 240 2012-04-03 03:41:03 <Dingharlio> I found another interesting IP address that connects around 173690 and strangely disconnects in a weird pattern right before 173695 is mentioned. The spamhaus comes back as an exploit computer and the IP is from the Ukraine.
 241 2012-04-03 03:41:30 <BlueMatt> fun
 242 2012-04-03 03:41:39 <Dingharlio> Code: CBL + customised NJABL.
 243 2012-04-03 03:41:59 <Dingharlio> 178.158.131.154:2811 for those who want to look it up
 244 2012-04-03 03:43:02 <Dingharlio> There is a socket receive error and the next log line is "disconnecting node 178.158.131.154:2811"
 245 2012-04-03 03:43:28 <gmaxwell> Dingharlio: Nothing you've pointed out so far is at all interesting as far as I can tell.
 246 2012-04-03 03:44:19 <Dingharlio> Ok well I am not the expert. I am just looking for patterns. I have now looked through the log file in question.
 247 2012-04-03 03:44:31 <Dingharlio> The part of the log file in question
 248 2012-04-03 03:46:26 <BlueMatt> if it is a botnet-based miner, and you did just find the ip of the person who sent you the block (no way to know, and it doesnt really look like it), then you just found the ip of one person who found the block, then you just found some random person in the Ukraine who is infected with a botnet
 249 2012-04-03 03:46:29 <BlueMatt> ok...
 250 2012-04-03 03:47:18 <gmaxwell> Luke has a patch to log the IP you recieve blocks from explicitly.
 251 2012-04-03 03:49:22 <Dingharlio> Do any pools use port 0?
 252 2012-04-03 03:50:01 <BlueMatt> there is no port 0
 253 2012-04-03 03:50:43 <Dingharlio> Then why are there lots of IP addresses with port 0
 254 2012-04-03 03:51:07 <Dingharlio> I even have them in my log so it isnt suspicious IMO
 255 2012-04-03 03:51:44 <BlueMatt> where do you see port 0 in your logs?
 256 2012-04-03 03:51:59 <Dingharlio> I have one IP with 0 port that isnt my ip address
 257 2012-04-03 03:52:09 <BlueMatt> you cant make a tcp port 0 connection using any standard system call I know of
 258 2012-04-03 03:52:25 <BlueMatt> though I think you could if you took a lot of time
 259 2012-04-03 03:52:37 <Dingharlio> AddAddress(189.69.218.77:0) - from my log.... if you search his log you will find a lot of port 0 connections if you search ":0"
 260 2012-04-03 03:53:02 <BlueMatt> AddAddress just means someone sent you that node's ip/port combo
 261 2012-04-03 03:53:48 <BlueMatt> it doesnt mean anyone has actually made/received a connection to/from that ip/port
 262 2012-04-03 03:54:39 <gmaxwell> I wonder if thats the addr flooding attack?
 263 2012-04-03 03:54:57 <BlueMatt> though you could make a tcp packet with port 0, I dont know that any routers/network stacks will like that
 264 2012-04-03 03:55:33 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: either that or someone was writing a client and wrote in buggy address exchanging
 265 2012-04-03 03:56:22 <gmaxwell> gah, this isn't helpful:
 266 2012-04-03 03:56:31 <gmaxwell> AddAddress()
 267 2012-04-03 03:56:31 <gmaxwell> AddAddress()
 268 2012-04-03 03:56:31 <gmaxwell> AddAddress()
 269 2012-04-03 03:56:48 <gmaxwell> Does addrman do that for other people is it that the result of some local patch I'm carrying on that node?
 270 2012-04-03 03:56:52 <BlueMatt> yes it is, it tells you there is a bug somewhere ;)
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 274 2012-04-03 03:58:10 <gmaxwell> oh nevermind that was looking at a 3.19 node
 275 2012-04-03 03:58:17 <BlueMatt> oh...
 276 2012-04-03 03:58:25 <BlueMatt> wait, you still run 0.3.19 nodes?
 277 2012-04-03 03:58:38 <BlueMatt> how big a testing setup do you have going there?
 278 2012-04-03 03:59:00 * BlueMatt still thinks we should hire gmaxwell away from wherever to make him qa lead
 279 2012-04-03 03:59:49 <gmaxwell> I only have 8 nodes at the moment. And a couple of them are production (mining)
 280 2012-04-03 04:00:06 <BlueMatt> thats 8 more than me...
 281 2012-04-03 04:00:44 <gmaxwell> I don't really have that much setup— I have a bunch of stuff half setup. E.g. I have the old nodes for the purpose of detecting chain disagreements between them and current nodes.. but haven't gotten to setting up alarms.
 282 2012-04-03 04:01:35 <BlueMatt> again, thats way more than I have
 283 2012-04-03 04:06:03 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
 284 2012-04-03 04:20:15 <Dingharlio> Does accepted connection mean that is officially a node that was connected to?
 285 2012-04-03 04:20:48 <BlueMatt> what does the line look like?
 286 2012-04-03 04:22:15 <Dingharlio> accepted connection 94.23.34.145:48054
 287 2012-04-03 04:22:25 <Graet> * BlueMatt still thinks we should hire gmaxwell away from wherever to make him qa lead << /me thinks this is one of the best ideas he's seen for a while
 288 2012-04-03 04:22:27 <Graet> :P
 289 2012-04-03 04:22:30 <BlueMatt> Dingharlio: yes
 290 2012-04-03 04:22:41 <Dingharlio> By the way the line before is "disconnecting node 94.23.34.145:56276"
 291 2012-04-03 04:22:47 <Dingharlio> same IP different port
 292 2012-04-03 04:22:53 <BlueMatt> Graet: I mentioned it back when there was talk of making a bitcoin foundation and getting a qt lead...
 293 2012-04-03 04:23:03 <BlueMatt> Graet: if only gmaxwell was unemployed...
 294 2012-04-03 04:23:07 <Graet> :D
 295 2012-04-03 04:23:09 <BlueMatt> (no offense gmaxwell)
 296 2012-04-03 04:23:27 <BlueMatt> Dingharlio: meh, connection was lost, a new one was made
 297 2012-04-03 04:23:28 <Graet> or a bitcoin foundation was big enough to lure him away
 298 2012-04-03 04:23:32 <BlueMatt> could happen for any number of reasons
 299 2012-04-03 04:24:00 <BlueMatt> Graet: though I know nothing of where gmaxwell actually gets paid to work, I would assume, based on what I've seen of his code, that he makes a pretty penny
 300 2012-04-03 04:24:09 <BlueMatt> or does xiph pay gmaxwell?
 301 2012-04-03 04:26:24 <BlueMatt> also, gmaxwell, what is up with the blue wikipedia background crap, it looks terrible...
 302 2012-04-03 04:26:56 <BlueMatt> wait, why is wikipedia not rendering right in chrome???
 303 2012-04-03 04:27:35 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
 304 2012-04-03 04:27:54 <Graet> ahh ok, fair enough BlueMatt :)
 305 2012-04-03 04:31:47 <BlueMatt> ok, Id assume he gets paid by xiph, "Gregory Maxwell, the designed and lead dev of the OGG container and the Vorbis audio and Theora video codecs"
 306 2012-04-03 04:32:06 <BlueMatt> also, gmaxwell, vorbis/theora kick ass
 307 2012-04-03 04:37:50 paulo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 308 2012-04-03 04:38:54 * gmaxwell tunes back in and wonders if Bluematt has a birthday upcoming or something. 
 309 2012-04-03 04:38:57 <gmaxwell> :)
 310 2012-04-03 04:39:15 <BlueMatt> na, you missed that a while back...
 311 2012-04-03 04:39:30 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell has several hats
 312 2012-04-03 04:39:55 <Diablo-D3> something something someting gaben is a bastard for not releasing half-life 3
 313 2012-04-03 04:40:44 <gmaxwell> In any case, I have a day job (I work for Juniper Networks). The Xiph work I do is just for fun and because I care about what it's accomplishing.  Theora is .. well. It's an old codec and does surprising well considering that it's more contemporary with mpeg2 than anything else.
 314 2012-04-03 04:41:08 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: does juniper hardware still suck?
 315 2012-04-03 04:41:20 <BlueMatt> oh, Juniper, now that I wouldnt have guessed...oh well
 316 2012-04-03 04:41:30 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: so when is Theora 2 coming out?
 317 2012-04-03 04:41:42 <Diablo-D3> they were trying to out-cisco cisco at one point
 318 2012-04-03 04:41:50 <gmaxwell> (I _could_ work full time on Xiph stuff, but — well, mozilla already employs 3/5 of the most active Xiph people, Redhat employs the other)
 319 2012-04-03 04:43:47 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: hm? Dunno what you're talking about actually— we've had no signficant hardware problems for many years (though, I never really deal with low end stuff or the firewalls, but even on those the issues have mostly been software)
 320 2012-04-03 04:45:43 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: I dunno, I just know a lot of people who work in the business of being juniper customers
 321 2012-04-03 04:46:23 <Diablo-D3> Ive heard enough people bitch older juniper stuff was better built
 322 2012-04-03 04:53:49 Dingharlio has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 323 2012-04-03 04:54:54 <Graet> i hang on another irc with a bunch of juniper fanboys :) there must be a lot of them in my state :)
 324 2012-04-03 04:58:51 <helo> opaque?
 325 2012-04-03 04:59:17 <BlueMatt> wait, jgarzik is selling his house?
 326 2012-04-03 05:01:18 <nanotube> for bitcoins?:)
 327 2012-04-03 05:02:20 asoltys has joined
 328 2012-04-03 05:02:55 <BlueMatt> if you make him an offer, Id assume
 329 2012-04-03 05:03:15 * BlueMatt just saw jgarzik post on his g+
 330 2012-04-03 05:03:27 <BlueMatt> (btw, if you dont follow what jgarzik links on his g+, its damn good stuff)
 331 2012-04-03 05:03:36 Turingi has joined
 332 2012-04-03 05:07:24 <Cory> Got a link?
 333 2012-04-03 05:07:41 ThomasV has joined
 334 2012-04-03 05:09:07 <nanotube> linky? :)
 335 2012-04-03 05:20:10 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Quitte)
 336 2012-04-03 05:40:38 <BlueMatt> sorry, I totally left right after posting that
 337 2012-04-03 05:40:42 <BlueMatt> nanotube, Cory: https://plus.google.com/105424721218711536033/posts
 338 2012-04-03 05:40:57 <Cory> Thanks!
 339 2012-04-03 05:41:00 <nanotube> haha thanks BlueMatt
 340 2012-04-03 05:41:35 * BlueMatt really hopes jgarzik's profile was publicly searchable and he didnt just post that...
 341 2012-04-03 05:41:44 <BlueMatt> oh well, I found him, it mustve been
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 347 2012-04-03 06:00:26 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: ?
 348 2012-04-03 06:00:44 dvide has quit ()
 349 2012-04-03 06:00:55 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: yes, I will accept bitcoins for my house
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 351 2012-04-03 06:08:28 <copumpkin> jgarzik: you know conrad parker?
 352 2012-04-03 06:08:39 <copumpkin> oh I guess not
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 425 2012-04-03 09:03:54 <UukGoblin> so is BIP16 live now?
 426 2012-04-03 09:04:01 <UukGoblin> the wiki still says "draft"
 427 2012-04-03 09:05:06 <conman> live it is
 428 2012-04-03 09:05:34 <conman> anyone mining should be mining with a bip16 compatible server
 429 2012-04-03 09:06:11 <Joric> i'm wondering if you had a full blown (uncompressed) 'vanity' address will future versions convert it to the compressed one? it will put the end to all vanity addresses
 430 2012-04-03 09:07:03 <Joric> (compressed and uncompressed pubkeys have different hash160)
 431 2012-04-03 09:10:59 <Joric> i mean, i heard some version of client tried to convert all keys in the wallet to 'compressed' ones
 432 2012-04-03 09:15:30 <conman> I"m guessing only if you enable upgrade wallet
 433 2012-04-03 09:15:39 <conman> wild guess only
 434 2012-04-03 09:16:15 <t7> how does a miner send proof of work to a pool?
 435 2012-04-03 09:16:25 <t7> what does the proof consist of?
 436 2012-04-03 09:17:13 toffoo has quit ()
 437 2012-04-03 09:18:36 <Cory> "A share is awarded by the mining pool to the clients who present a valid proof of work of the same type as the proof of work that is used for creating blocks, but of lesser difficulty, so that it requires less time on average to generate."
 438 2012-04-03 09:20:44 datagutt has joined
 439 2012-04-03 09:21:14 <Joric> i don't like the idea when the same secret points to a different address, if only client link those addresses somehow
 440 2012-04-03 09:21:25 Clipse has joined
 441 2012-04-03 09:21:39 <Joric> *links
 442 2012-04-03 09:22:40 delt0r has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 443 2012-04-03 09:22:48 <Joric> if not, 'upgrading wallet' is pretty much like burning money
 444 2012-04-03 09:22:48 delt0r has joined
 445 2012-04-03 09:22:49 andytoshi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 446 2012-04-03 09:23:42 andytoshi has joined
 447 2012-04-03 09:25:50 <sipa> Joric: address cannot ever be converted
 448 2012-04-03 09:27:07 <sipa> Joric: pre 0.6.0rc5 there was an automatic upgrade where new addresses that were generated would be compressed ones
 449 2012-04-03 09:27:19 <sipa> but old keys are never touched
 450 2012-04-03 09:29:14 <Joric> does it mean the pre-generated address pool won't be touched as well?
 451 2012-04-03 09:29:15 luke-jr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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 453 2012-04-03 09:31:57 <sipa> gmaxwell: addrman should tell you where new addresses were received from, how many, and how many entries both tables have afterwards
 454 2012-04-03 09:33:09 <Eliel> so, with the compressed public keys, will the client now keep track of both ways of hashing the public keys into addresses?
 455 2012-04-03 09:33:50 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Lohoris opened issue 1027 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1027>
 456 2012-04-03 09:35:11 <sipa> Eliel: no, it's decided at generation time
 457 2012-04-03 09:35:43 <sipa> it would not be wise to use both addresses corresponding to a raw secret key
 458 2012-04-03 09:36:01 <sipa> that would mean two implicitly linked addresses
 459 2012-04-03 09:36:35 <JFK911> is that fork closed?
 460 2012-04-03 09:38:20 <sipa> Joric: the pool keys are no different; those that are already generated are not touched
 461 2012-04-03 09:38:39 <Joric> okay
 462 2012-04-03 09:39:17 <sipa> so if you run -walletupgrade now on an old wallet, it still takes 100 getnewaddress'es to start seeing compressed ones
 463 2012-04-03 09:41:27 <da2ce7> do you do a wallet upgrade if you change your wallet password?
 464 2012-04-03 09:41:44 <[Tycho]> Can anyone tell me the hash of block 174104, NOT from blockchaininfo ?
 465 2012-04-03 09:42:01 <sipa> da2ce7: change no, add yes
 466 2012-04-03 09:42:12 <da2ce7> hmm...
 467 2012-04-03 09:42:29 <[7]> [Tycho]: is blockexplorer OK? :P
 468 2012-04-03 09:42:56 <[Tycho]> [7]: Does it even works ?
 469 2012-04-03 09:43:26 <Joric> blockexplorer says 0000000000000029ba6dc285fa0b9b03460f145d6b7b8a358f2f6dfad5d800bd
 470 2012-04-03 09:43:27 <kinlo> 0000000000000029ba6dc285fa0b9b03460f145d6b7b8a358f2f6dfad5d800bd ? :)
 471 2012-04-03 09:43:32 <kinlo> that's what I have
 472 2012-04-03 09:43:50 <[7]> which matches blockchain.info
 473 2012-04-03 09:43:54 <[Tycho]> Hmm, looks like Slush orphaned me.
 474 2012-04-03 09:44:24 <Joric> whoa http://blockchain.info/blocks is full of collisions i see three or four
 475 2012-04-03 09:44:38 <[7]> [Tycho]: I spotted some weird blocks from you yesterday (or at least relayed by you apparently)
 476 2012-04-03 09:44:44 <[7]> where you basically orphaned yourself?
 477 2012-04-03 09:45:04 midnightmagic has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 478 2012-04-03 09:45:21 midnightmagic has joined
 479 2012-04-03 09:45:26 <[Tycho]> [7]: No, today is the first one, possibly.
 480 2012-04-03 09:46:02 <[7]> on blockchain.info, 174102 looks like such a one
 481 2012-04-03 09:46:08 <sipa> 0000000000000029ba6dc285fa0b9b03460f145d6b7b8a358f2f6dfad5d800bd according to my bitcoind
 482 2012-04-03 09:46:44 <[Tycho]> [7]: which 174102 ?
 483 2012-04-03 09:47:13 <[7]> that's what i mean, both are relayed by you according to blockchain.info
 484 2012-04-03 09:49:26 <[Tycho]> Yes, but at least one of them is not from me.
 485 2012-04-03 09:49:47 <[7]> ok, so that was just a display issue... fine
 486 2012-04-03 09:49:49 <[Tycho]> Blockchaininfo usually shows wrong info.
 487 2012-04-03 09:50:01 <[7]> there were some more of these yesterday which made them a bit suspicious
 488 2012-04-03 09:50:05 <conman> usually heh
 489 2012-04-03 09:50:38 <[Tycho]> LOTS of non-bip16 blocks were shown as Deepbit's 01.04
 490 2012-04-03 09:52:29 <[Tycho]> Joric: what BBE are you using ?
 491 2012-04-03 09:53:23 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 492 2012-04-03 09:53:48 <t7> anyone know a guide to public key crypto for programmers?
 493 2012-04-03 09:55:51 <t7> babbys first guide sorta thing
 494 2012-04-03 09:58:40 <Joric> [Tycho], blockexplorer.com
 495 2012-04-03 09:59:20 <[Tycho]> Wow, its working again.
 496 2012-04-03 10:02:26 conman has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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 508 2012-04-03 11:00:11 <kinlo> blockexplorer lagging behind?
 509 2012-04-03 11:00:14 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 510 2012-04-03 11:01:32 <djoot> Swedish translation file is in too bad a shape to be included IMO, lots of text showing up as 'amp;Blabla' because there are lots of instances of &amp;amp;Blabla in the source
 511 2012-04-03 11:01:38 <[7]> is there any way to easily figure out which bitcoind version some IP is running?
 512 2012-04-03 11:02:48 <djoot> also, how can I turn off localization for bitcoin-qt in windows? anyone?
 513 2012-04-03 11:04:27 yellowhat_ has joined
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 517 2012-04-03 11:10:21 <sipa> [7]: try http://bitcoin.sipa.be/seeds.txt
 518 2012-04-03 11:12:29 <[7]> isn't in there
 519 2012-04-03 11:12:41 <[7]> can't I just connect to that IP and ask it?
 520 2012-04-03 11:13:36 <sipa> yes
 521 2012-04-03 11:13:44 <sipa> use bitcoind -connect=<IP>
 522 2012-04-03 11:13:59 <sipa> the debug.log will tell you the network version (but not the client version)
 523 2012-04-03 11:14:29 <[7]> dammit, port not open on that IP
 524 2012-04-03 11:16:54 <denisx> [7]: you want to check all pools with your tool?
 525 2012-04-03 11:17:23 <[7]> no, I just have a particular suspocion what's currently happening with p2pool
 526 2012-04-03 11:17:27 <[7]> suspicion*
 527 2012-04-03 11:17:56 <[7]> there must be some miners who are running an old p2pool, but new bitcoind version, causing the p2pool sharechain fork to produce valid bitcoin blocks
 528 2012-04-03 11:18:12 <[7]> and among them is bitcoin syndicate with it's 5GH/s
 529 2012-04-03 11:21:11 <kinlo> sipa: is that list complete?
 530 2012-04-03 11:21:23 sacarlson has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 531 2012-04-03 11:21:37 sacarlson has joined
 532 2012-04-03 11:21:42 <sipa> kinlo: it's the dump of the database my crawler maintains
 533 2012-04-03 11:21:59 <kinlo> so how would that explain that my ip isn't in that list? :)
 534 2012-04-03 11:22:05 <sipa> it's up to date, but very unreachable nodes are banned
 535 2012-04-03 11:22:31 <kinlo> do you do nodes on other ports?
 536 2012-04-03 11:22:42 <sipa> yes
 537 2012-04-03 11:22:56 <sipa> 80.200.39.195:133330.00%0.37%10.61%11.56%3.52%60000 "/Satoshi:0.6.0.6/"
 538 2012-04-03 11:23:17 <kinlo> mmmz
 539 2012-04-03 11:23:24 <kinlo> so why are my clients not in the list
 540 2012-04-03 11:23:32 mmoya has joined
 541 2012-04-03 11:23:35 <sipa> 80.200.39.195:13333 0.00% 0.37% 10.61% 11.56% 3.52% 60000 "/Satoshi:0.6.0.6/"
 542 2012-04-03 11:23:43 Blitzboom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 543 2012-04-03 11:24:00 <sipa> kinlo: is it up, its connection slots not full, and reachable?
 544 2012-04-03 11:24:20 <kinlo> I'm looking at it
 545 2012-04-03 11:24:24 <kinlo> slots are 8 so not full
 546 2012-04-03 11:24:33 <kinlo> what is the default limit for max number of slots?
 547 2012-04-03 11:24:44 <sipa> 8 seems to imply you're not reachable :)
 548 2012-04-03 11:25:05 <sipa> (as the client makes 8 outgoing connections)
 549 2012-04-03 11:26:11 <kinlo> :)
 550 2012-04-03 11:26:20 <kinlo> got it, firewall issues
 551 2012-04-03 11:26:59 <kinlo> I didn't automated those firewalls yet :/
 552 2012-04-03 11:26:59 <sipa> if you're up, and haven't behaved very badly the past month, you'll probably end up in the list within an hour
 553 2012-04-03 11:28:21 <kinlo> I have been blocking incomming
 554 2012-04-03 11:28:25 <kinlo> but no more
 555 2012-04-03 11:31:47 Blitzboom has joined
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 559 2012-04-03 11:41:08 <sturles> 79.143.241.233:8333 100.00% 100.00% 99.72% 56.93% 17.84% 300 ""
 560 2012-04-03 11:41:34 <sipa> that's no satoshi client
 561 2012-04-03 11:41:34 <sturles> Is this Satoshi running the third alpha version of his client?
 562 2012-04-03 11:41:41 <sturles> Ah.
 563 2012-04-03 11:42:27 <sipa> actually, no, it could be
 564 2012-04-03 11:42:33 <sipa> v0.3.0
 565 2012-04-03 11:42:41 <sipa> had indeed client version number 300
 566 2012-04-03 11:44:28 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 567 2012-04-03 11:45:26 <sturles> 32300 is a popular client.  27.45% of the seed nodes.  Only 4.41% at 60000.
 568 2012-04-03 11:46:09 <sipa> sturles: that node seems to be running a fully functional node
 569 2012-04-03 11:46:36 <sipa> it may be an alternative implementation, or hacked to show a wrong version number, but at least it's working
 570 2012-04-03 11:47:21 ThomasV has joined
 571 2012-04-03 11:49:05 <sturles> Heh.  Someone probably had it to start at boot and forgot about it.  Could have a fat wallet from early mining, of course.
 572 2012-04-03 11:49:09 <sturles> 50300 was the first release with proper BIP 16 support, right?  In that case less than 11% of the seed nodes support BIP 16.
 573 2012-04-03 11:49:58 <sipa> sturles: 50400 and 60000
 574 2012-04-03 11:50:02 <sipa> 50300 does not have BIP16
 575 2012-04-03 11:50:08 sacarlson has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 576 2012-04-03 11:50:20 sacarlson has joined
 577 2012-04-03 11:51:17 <sturles> Less than 5% then.  Not impressive.  We are probably going to see those invalid blocks for a while.
 578 2012-04-03 11:51:52 <sipa> seed nodes != mining power
 579 2012-04-03 11:52:16 <sturles> Of course, but there still are a few solo miners out there.
 580 2012-04-03 11:56:20 ahihi2 has joined
 581 2012-04-03 11:57:26 lh77 has quit ()
 582 2012-04-03 11:58:44 <sturles> I waited for months to upgrade my workstation after "Generate coins" was removed from the menu on the GUI version.  I thought generating was removed completely, and it still generated a block now and then at 15 MHash/s.
 583 2012-04-03 11:59:21 <sturles> This may have been around 0.3.23, the most popular version.
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 589 2012-04-03 12:14:20 <sturles> 51% of the nodes are still at version 0.3.x.  31% at 0.5.x.  Only 4.43% at 0.6.x.
 590 2012-04-03 12:14:53 <lh77> im too lazy to upgrade :/
 591 2012-04-03 12:16:40 Joric has joined
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 593 2012-04-03 12:23:09 <Cory> Thankfully most nodes aren't submitting blocks, then.
 594 2012-04-03 12:24:15 <sturles> Yep.  Just getting confused by all the orphaned chains, possibly failing to reorganize.
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 612 2012-04-03 13:10:30 <imsaguy2> is testnet faucet broke?
 613 2012-04-03 13:11:08 <imsaguy2> I've requested coins, but they never arrive.  Further, there's a list of sent coins in the history of the faucet page, but they all show as errors.
 614 2012-04-03 13:11:16 <imsaguy2> Today in Chrome I get: You attempted to reach testnet.freebitcoins.appspot.com, but instead you actually reached a server identifying itself as *.appspot.com. This may be caused by a misconfiguration on the server or by something more serious. An attacker on your network could be trying to get you to visit a fake (and potentially harmful) version of testnet.freebitcoins.appspot.com.
 615 2012-04-03 13:11:16 <imsaguy2> You cannot proceed because the website operator has requested heightened security for this domain.
 616 2012-04-03 13:11:19 da2ce7 has joined
 617 2012-04-03 13:11:34 <imsaguy2> So it seems its having multiple issues :(
 618 2012-04-03 13:12:12 JRWR has joined
 619 2012-04-03 13:15:04 <t7> anyone know about rsa in here?
 620 2012-04-03 13:21:37 JRWR has quit (Quit: "If the dinosaurs had a space program, they'd still be here." - Ron Garan)
 621 2012-04-03 13:22:11 kish has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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 623 2012-04-03 13:24:50 <t7> how long does it take to check 2 ^ 32 hashes on a block>
 624 2012-04-03 13:25:00 erle- has quit (Quit: erle-)
 625 2012-04-03 13:25:34 <sipa> t7: on what hardware?
 626 2012-04-03 13:25:42 <t7> 2 ^ 32 / 700,000,000
 627 2012-04-03 13:25:59 <sipa> ;;calc 2**32 / 700000000
 628 2012-04-03 13:25:59 <gribble> 6.13566756571
 629 2012-04-03 13:26:05 <t7> 6 seconds?
 630 2012-04-03 13:26:25 <t7> wtf
 631 2012-04-03 13:27:17 <sipa> remember that when bitcoin was introduced, hashing speed of a typical computer was below 1 MH/s
 632 2012-04-03 13:27:39 <sipa> optimized algorithms and GPUs came years later
 633 2012-04-03 13:27:46 <t7> is that hashing the entire contents of a block
 634 2012-04-03 13:28:01 <t7> including txs and stuff?
 635 2012-04-03 13:28:30 <t7> no...
 636 2012-04-03 13:28:33 <sipa> no, only the header
 637 2012-04-03 13:29:11 <t7> how old can a timestamp be before its not accepted?
 638 2012-04-03 13:29:37 <JFK911> whats happening with these chain forks?
 639 2012-04-03 13:30:22 <sipa> t7: not older than the median of the past 11 blocks
 640 2012-04-03 13:40:56 <[7]> JFK911: they are being orphaned?
 641 2012-04-03 13:42:53 <Tril> imsaguy2: try non-HTTPS:  http://testnet.freebitcoins.appspot.com loads okay. SSL wildcards don't extend to sub-levels deeper than 1 (x.appspot.com OK, y.x.appspot.com not OK)
 642 2012-04-03 13:43:22 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 643 2012-04-03 13:44:13 <luke-jr> JFK911: BIP16
 644 2012-04-03 13:50:34 <sipa> I've implemented a block chain database patch that does pruning (write-only, blkindex.dat/blk0001.dat is still used for the real checking)
 645 2012-04-03 13:50:39 <sipa> let's see how small it gets
 646 2012-04-03 13:51:38 <luke-jr> O.o
 647 2012-04-03 13:51:42 <imsaguy2> tril: thanks, a derp moment
 648 2012-04-03 13:51:52 <luke-jr> sipa: as in, it deletes the data, or just removes it from the index?
 649 2012-04-03 13:52:10 <imsaguy2> gavinandresen: the testnet faucet seems to be erroring on sends lately.
 650 2012-04-03 13:52:25 <sipa> luke-jr: it stores transaction, tx information and block headers, but not the blocks itself
 651 2012-04-03 13:52:41 <luke-jr> hmm
 652 2012-04-03 13:52:45 <gavinandresen> imsaguy2: thanks, I'll look into it later today
 653 2012-04-03 13:52:50 <sipa> and every 2016 blocks it deletes fully-pruned transactions and tx info
 654 2012-04-03 13:53:03 <imsaguy2> gavinandresen: no, thank you.
 655 2012-04-03 13:53:04 <sipa> that were already fully-pruned 2016 blocks earlier
 656 2012-04-03 13:53:43 <luke-jr> sipa: what do you think about partial pruning? ie, pick a random 75% of blocks to prune
 657 2012-04-03 13:54:04 <sipa> luke-jr: unsure...
 658 2012-04-03 13:54:07 <luke-jr> that way, even if all your peers are pruners, one is likely to still have the block you need
 659 2012-04-03 13:54:42 <sipa> i understand why satoshi didn't do a db with transactions in now: it's excessively slow (probably extremely bad locality, all random hashes)
 660 2012-04-03 13:58:47 <sipa> i don't get it: the database is barely a few megabytes in size now, and pruning transactions already takes several seconds
 661 2012-04-03 13:59:00 <t7> do i need to clear all my wallet etc if i start bitcoin with -testnet?
 662 2012-04-03 13:59:21 <sipa> t7: no, it uses a different data directory
 663 2012-04-03 14:00:00 Joric has joined
 664 2012-04-03 14:00:07 <imsaguy2> it makes a testnet folder in your normal data directory unless you point it elsewhere
 665 2012-04-03 14:03:47 <t7> the qr code stuff is awesome
 666 2012-04-03 14:03:52 <t7> good job guys
 667 2012-04-03 14:04:00 <t7> here 50 testnet coins for your trouble
 668 2012-04-03 14:06:54 <t7> the block header uses 4 bytes for difficulty
 669 2012-04-03 14:07:16 <t7> yet the target is 256 bit
 670 2012-04-03 14:07:19 <t7> wtf
 671 2012-04-03 14:07:22 copumpkin has joined
 672 2012-04-03 14:07:36 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Quitte)
 673 2012-04-03 14:07:56 ThomasV has joined
 674 2012-04-03 14:08:15 <sipa> t7: why waste 32 bytes for a number with only a few relevant digits?
 675 2012-04-03 14:08:32 <t7> how is it encoded?
 676 2012-04-03 14:08:42 <sipa> use the source, luke
 677 2012-04-03 14:08:47 <gavinandresen> yes, use the source....
 678 2012-04-03 14:08:50 <t7> im reading the wiki
 679 2012-04-03 14:09:26 <luke-jr> t7: it's a custom floating-point
 680 2012-04-03 14:09:38 <luke-jr> t7: 6 (hex) digits, plus exponent
 681 2012-04-03 14:09:46 <t7> oh bloody norah
 682 2012-04-03 14:09:56 <luke-jr> it's rounded at calculation
 683 2012-04-03 14:10:05 <t7> nothing is ever simple with bitcoin
 684 2012-04-03 14:10:08 <luke-jr> XD
 685 2012-04-03 14:11:57 m00p has joined
 686 2012-04-03 14:16:20 denisx_ has joined
 687 2012-04-03 14:16:32 denisx has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 688 2012-04-03 14:16:33 denisx_ is now known as denisx
 689 2012-04-03 14:19:19 <t7> are target hex chars allways f or 0 ?
 690 2012-04-03 14:20:56 <t7> no
 691 2012-04-03 14:22:27 <sipa> t7: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/bignum.h#L256
 692 2012-04-03 14:22:46 <t7> you guys roll your own bignum type?
 693 2012-04-03 14:23:13 <sipa> satoshi did; i wouldn't
 694 2012-04-03 14:23:41 fiddur has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 695 2012-04-03 14:24:05 <gmaxwell> hm? not really.. he wrapped the openssl one.
 696 2012-04-03 14:24:19 <sipa> oh, right
 697 2012-04-03 14:24:25 <sipa> but uint256 is a custom one
 698 2012-04-03 14:24:42 <t7> SetCompact mutates itself and returns itself... why.jaypeg
 699 2012-04-03 14:24:54 <t7> i really dont get some C++ coders
 700 2012-04-03 14:25:27 <luke-jr> t7: that's pretty standard, and for good reason
 701 2012-04-03 14:25:35 <luke-jr> a.SetCompact().SetFoo().SetBar()
 702 2012-04-03 14:26:01 <t7> why not make it immutable
 703 2012-04-03 14:26:29 <t7> b = a.Compact().Foo().Bar();
 704 2012-04-03 14:26:44 <luke-jr> sometimes that makes sense.
 705 2012-04-03 14:27:09 <sipa> entire pruned chain: 971 MB
 706 2012-04-03 14:27:17 <sipa> (chain + index)
 707 2012-04-03 14:28:26 <sipa> hmm, not entirely finished; will probably be closer to 1 GiB when finished
 708 2012-04-03 14:28:43 occulta has joined
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 710 2012-04-03 14:31:24 phma has joined
 711 2012-04-03 14:35:23 <sipa> 1022 MiB
 712 2012-04-03 14:39:39 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 713 2012-04-03 14:40:06 <gmaxwell> compared to?
 714 2012-04-03 14:40:29 <gmaxwell> (also you should dbdump | dbload your index for the comparison .. reduces mine by a very large amount)
 715 2012-04-03 14:41:02 <sipa> let me do that first
 716 2012-04-03 14:41:17 gjs278 has joined
 717 2012-04-03 14:41:44 sje has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 718 2012-04-03 14:42:12 <luke-jr> sipa: does it implement the scriptPubKey[0]==OP_RETURN check?
 719 2012-04-03 14:43:25 d4de has joined
 720 2012-04-03 14:43:45 <sipa> luke-jr: no
 721 2012-04-03 14:44:05 <sipa> just pruning fully-spent well-buried transactions
 722 2012-04-03 14:44:34 <t7> blockexplorer.com/testnet is a bit out of date then...
 723 2012-04-03 14:45:04 <sipa> gmaxwell: oh, wow
 724 2012-04-03 14:45:28 <sipa> reloaded blkindex.dat + blk0001.dat: 1,441,805K
 725 2012-04-03 14:45:51 <sipa> reloaded chain.dat (my thing): 803,749K
 726 2012-04-03 14:47:31 <t7> are 13k blocks not a big deal anymore?
 727 2012-04-03 14:47:41 <sipa> ?
 728 2012-04-03 14:48:00 <t7> txs*
 729 2012-04-03 14:48:47 <t7> lots of money moving about :3
 730 2012-04-03 14:48:50 <gmaxwell> sipa: ah, your chain.dat also benefited from being reloaded. I see.
 731 2012-04-03 14:49:43 <sipa> indeed
 732 2012-04-03 14:50:59 <sipa> now, there may be bugs in it, it's not tested whether it actually suffices to validate the chain
 733 2012-04-03 14:51:16 <sipa> it's just write-only to see what sizes you'd obtain
 734 2012-04-03 14:51:50 <gmaxwell> I still don't think thats a _big_ win... I guess next year it will be, however.
 735 2012-04-03 14:53:11 Sedra has joined
 736 2012-04-03 14:54:42 <sipa> also, chain.dat only contains connected transactions/blocks
 737 2012-04-03 14:54:59 <sipa> while all reorganized forks are still in blk0001.dat
 738 2012-04-03 14:55:54 <t7> how do i know if i generated a share or a block... if my hash meets the difficulty
 739 2012-04-03 15:07:27 <imsaguy2> gavinandresen, I was wrong about the faucet, its both blockexplorer and the android wallet that are having issues, I'll follow up with them.
 740 2012-04-03 15:07:49 <luke-jr> sipa: care to pull 934, 936, 987 ?
 741 2012-04-03 15:12:03 <gmaxwell> I pulled 934.
 742 2012-04-03 15:12:11 <luke-jr> thanks (didn't notice you were active)
 743 2012-04-03 15:12:41 <t7> is there a program to scan the blockchain and check the balance of an address?
 744 2012-04-03 15:12:51 <luke-jr> t7: blockchain.info? :p
 745 2012-04-03 15:13:22 <gmaxwell> 936,987 I'd want to test before pulling myself.
 746 2012-04-03 15:14:03 <t7> luke-jr: but i can receive from 1 address and send using another, right?
 747 2012-04-03 15:14:06 <luke-jr> 987 is basically a selective s/URL/URI/
 748 2012-04-03 15:14:13 <luke-jr> t7: no
 749 2012-04-03 15:14:32 <t7> ah the client just does it for me
 750 2012-04-03 15:14:47 <luke-jr> how can I find the version of Ubuntu install from CLI? :/
 751 2012-04-03 15:17:16 <helo> Ubuntu Server?
 752 2012-04-03 15:17:43 <helo> has there been any discussion of tighter integration between bitcoin and a linux distro such as ubuntu?
 753 2012-04-03 15:18:58 <helo> i.e. every ubuntu user is given the option to create an encrypted wallet, run a full/lightweight node, etc?
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 770 2012-04-03 15:58:45 Diapolo has joined
 771 2012-04-03 15:58:49 <Diapolo> hi all
 772 2012-04-03 15:58:50 phma has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 773 2012-04-03 15:59:54 <Diapolo> I have a question on the DB_LOG_AUTO_REMOVE setting introduced recently.
 774 2012-04-03 16:01:55 phma has joined
 775 2012-04-03 16:02:00 <Diapolo> Is it safe, if all log files get deleted from the database dir? Gavin wrote, that a 'catastrophic database recovery' is impossible anyway.
 776 2012-04-03 16:02:30 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Beware of programmers who carry screwdrivers.)
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 779 2012-04-03 16:06:50 <graingert> would it be better to launch the main window of the client, and use the status bar. Instead of a splash-screen?
 780 2012-04-03 16:07:30 <graingert> recent transaction balance etc can be serialized fairly simply, and loaded if the wallet.dat has not changed
 781 2012-04-03 16:09:21 barmstrong has joined
 782 2012-04-03 16:10:01 Sedra- has joined
 783 2012-04-03 16:10:28 <Joric> especially such a lousy splash screen
 784 2012-04-03 16:12:15 <graingert> no other piece of good software uses a splash screen
 785 2012-04-03 16:12:20 <graingert> eg eclipse
 786 2012-04-03 16:13:12 Sedra has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 787 2012-04-03 16:16:51 <lh77> i agree i dislike the splash screen
 788 2012-04-03 16:20:00 <graingert> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1028
 789 2012-04-03 16:20:10 <graingert> Joric: lh77: ^
 790 2012-04-03 16:21:14 <Joric> devs dissaprove +1s )
 791 2012-04-03 16:21:38 <graingert> Joric: ?
 792 2012-04-03 16:21:52 paulo_ has joined
 793 2012-04-03 16:22:12 <graingert> Joric: dym: "devs dissaprove of +1s :)"
 794 2012-04-03 16:22:36 <graingert> github needs upboat and downboat support
 795 2012-04-03 16:22:40 <graingert> on issues
 796 2012-04-03 16:23:15 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: graingert opened issue 1028 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1028>
 797 2012-04-03 16:23:23 <graingert> news!
 798 2012-04-03 16:23:32 pusle has joined
 799 2012-04-03 16:23:38 <graingert> >.>
 800 2012-04-03 16:24:04 <helo> suggested replacement for qrcode.png: http://helo.org/qrcode.png
 801 2012-04-03 16:24:24 <helo> the current qrcode icon just looks like a grey blur
 802 2012-04-03 16:24:24 pklaus has quit ()
 803 2012-04-03 16:24:51 <graingert> helo: needs white border
 804 2012-04-03 16:25:00 <helo> looks great in the client
 805 2012-04-03 16:25:00 <graingert> 1block
 806 2012-04-03 16:25:58 <graingert> what about icon-qrcode from bootstrap?
 807 2012-04-03 16:26:03 <graingert> http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/base-css.html
 808 2012-04-03 16:26:10 <graingert> ie glyphicons
 809 2012-04-03 16:27:07 <helo> that would work too
 810 2012-04-03 16:28:32 <graingert> it's probably a good idea to stick to system icons -> glyphicons -> custom icons
 811 2012-04-03 16:29:27 <helo> yeah...
 812 2012-04-03 16:29:43 <graingert> someone could stump up the $49 and get the SVGs included :p
 813 2012-04-03 16:29:57 <graingert> as they are royalty free
 814 2012-04-03 16:31:52 <graingert> Joric: lh77: it looks like laanwj likes it :D
 815 2012-04-03 16:32:59 <luke-jr> graingert: but are they free?
 816 2012-04-03 16:33:26 <luke-jr> (no)
 817 2012-04-03 16:34:00 <helo> is the qrcode icon resized to 16x16 on all platforms?
 818 2012-04-03 16:35:48 <graingert> luke-jr: the standard icons are https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/deed.en
 819 2012-04-03 16:36:00 <luke-jr> graingert: not SVG
 820 2012-04-03 16:36:09 <luke-jr> (also, CC BY 3.0 is non-free)
 821 2012-04-03 16:36:13 <graingert> luke-jr: and the full icons are royalty free if someone plumps the cash
 822 2012-04-03 16:36:16 imsaguy2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 823 2012-04-03 16:36:21 <graingert> MIT is similar to CC BY
 824 2012-04-03 16:36:25 <luke-jr> graingert: royalty-free != free
 825 2012-04-03 16:36:29 <graingert> true
 826 2012-04-03 16:36:31 <luke-jr> graingert: except minus the BY clause
 827 2012-04-03 16:36:41 <graingert> MIT requires the copyright notice
 828 2012-04-03 16:36:51 <luke-jr> not attribution, though
 829 2012-04-03 16:37:02 <graingert> The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.
 830 2012-04-03 16:37:07 <graingert> Copyright (c) <year> <copyright holders>
 831 2012-04-03 16:38:06 <luke-jr> hmm, I actually don't have CC-BY-3.0 on my license rejection list
 832 2012-04-03 16:38:14 <graingert> link?
 833 2012-04-03 16:39:01 imsaguy2 has joined
 834 2012-04-03 16:39:02 <luke-jr> http://scm.dashjr.org/websvn/filedetails.php?repname=portage-overlay-luke-jr&path=%2Ftrunk%2Fprofiles%2Flicense_groups.rejected
 835 2012-04-03 16:39:19 <luke-jr> it's not on my accepted list either: http://scm.dashjr.org/websvn/filedetails.php?repname=portage-overlay-luke-jr&path=%2Ftrunk%2Fprofiles%2Flicense_groups.rationale
 836 2012-04-03 16:39:30 <graingert> agpl
 837 2012-04-03 16:40:41 <luke-jr> ?
 838 2012-04-03 16:40:51 <graingert> you don't accept AGPL?
 839 2012-04-03 16:41:10 abbe has quit (Excess Flood)
 840 2012-04-03 16:41:12 <luke-jr> if it's not on either list, it usually means I haven't encountered a need for it.
 841 2012-04-03 16:41:18 <luke-jr> AGPL would end up on my accept list
 842 2012-04-03 16:41:39 <luke-jr> after a careful read ofc
 843 2012-04-03 16:41:51 <graingert> I think it's only one or two extra clauses
 844 2012-04-03 16:42:21 <luke-jr> yeah, I'm pretty sure it's fine
 845 2012-04-03 16:42:30 <helo> graingert: updated with white border ;)
 846 2012-04-03 16:42:31 <luke-jr> if it wasn't, I'd probably reconsider using it for Eloipool :P
 847 2012-04-03 16:42:43 <graingert> ever used GPL on your code?
 848 2012-04-03 16:43:02 <luke-jr> plenty
 849 2012-04-03 16:43:27 <graingert> you not worried about the laser sharks?
 850 2012-04-03 16:43:41 <luke-jr> ?
 851 2012-04-03 16:43:56 <Eliel> I think AGPL addition are necessary if the software is effectively a web server.
 852 2012-04-03 16:44:03 Clipse has quit (Quit: Clipse)
 853 2012-04-03 16:44:22 <graingert> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/10/torvalds_gpl_drm/
 854 2012-04-03 16:44:32 <Eliel> otherwise any company can just make improvements inhouse and not publish them as they're not redistributing the software :)
 855 2012-04-03 16:45:23 ashish has joined
 856 2012-04-03 16:45:33 <graingert> it depends how invested you are in free enterprise clause of GPL
 857 2012-04-03 16:45:37 <graingert> ie laser sharks
 858 2012-04-03 16:46:09 <luke-jr> Eliel: yep
 859 2012-04-03 16:46:22 <luke-jr> Eliel: Eloipool has builtin compliance even - it serves its own code
 860 2012-04-03 16:46:39 <graingert> I didn't think you had to do that?
 861 2012-04-03 16:46:46 <luke-jr> graingert: looks ancient
 862 2012-04-03 16:47:37 <luke-jr> graingert: also looks like FUD
 863 2012-04-03 16:47:50 <graingert> ?
 864 2012-04-03 16:47:53 <luke-jr> "and the GPLv2 just says that you have to give source code back." <-- it doesn't.
 865 2012-04-03 16:47:56 ThomasV_ has joined
 866 2012-04-03 16:47:59 <luke-jr> You cannot install it on your hardware (laser-equipped shark or otherwise) without also making sure that others can install another version
 867 2012-04-03 16:48:01 <luke-jr> ^ false
 868 2012-04-03 16:48:12 <graingert> that's the GPL3 isn't it
 869 2012-04-03 16:48:21 <luke-jr> no
 870 2012-04-03 16:48:24 ThomasV has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 871 2012-04-03 16:48:25 <graingert> oh
 872 2012-04-03 16:48:33 ThomasV_ has quit (Client Quit)
 873 2012-04-03 16:48:38 <luke-jr> GPLv2 says you have to give code to anyone who you give the software to
 874 2012-04-03 16:48:42 <graingert> damn, I need to re-license some of my code
 875 2012-04-03 16:48:50 <luke-jr> GPLv3 says you have to do that, and also allow that person to change it technologically
 876 2012-04-03 16:48:54 ThomasV has joined
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 878 2012-04-03 16:48:58 ThomasV has joined
 879 2012-04-03 16:49:05 Diapolo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 880 2012-04-03 16:49:17 <graingert> hang on GPLv2 doesn't allow you to adapt the code?
 881 2012-04-03 16:49:35 <luke-jr> so for example, you could sell a DVR with GPL-2 code, and give me that code, but make it impossible for me to install my modified build on the DVR
 882 2012-04-03 16:49:47 <luke-jr> with GPL-3, you're required to allow me to install my modification on my own DVR
 883 2012-04-03 16:50:06 <graingert> you used two terms
 884 2012-04-03 16:50:10 <graingert> the DVR and my own DVR
 885 2012-04-03 16:50:18 <graingert> are they the same object?
 886 2012-04-03 16:50:20 <luke-jr> yes
 887 2012-04-03 16:50:41 <luke-jr> with GPL-2, the manuf can prevent you from installing mods on your own DVR
 888 2012-04-03 16:50:44 <graingert> isn't that what "You cannot install it on your hardware (laser-equipped shark or otherwise) without also making sure that others can install another version" means?
 889 2012-04-03 16:50:46 <luke-jr> with GPL-3, they have to let you
 890 2012-04-03 16:51:06 <luke-jr> graingert: the thing is, GPL-3 only requires that the *owner* can install it on his hardware
 891 2012-04-03 16:51:21 <luke-jr> so, unless you're *selling* the laser-equipped sharks to someone else, it's the same deal as GPL-2
 892 2012-04-03 16:51:32 <graingert> the owner?
 893 2012-04-03 16:51:41 <wumpus> graingert: no, I don't like it. But I have other priorities. If it bothers you so much, submit a patch.
 894 2012-04-03 16:51:45 <graingert> you mean if you licensed the hardware eg sat box
 895 2012-04-03 16:51:47 <luke-jr> graingert: if you own the DVR, GPL-3 says they have to let you install mdos
 896 2012-04-03 16:51:48 <luke-jr> mods*
 897 2012-04-03 16:52:12 d4de has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 898 2012-04-03 16:52:24 <graingert> wumpus: chillax, it's just an issue
 899 2012-04-03 16:52:39 <luke-jr> graingert: what good is code and permission to modify it, if they make it impossible to install the modified version
 900 2012-04-03 16:52:42 d4de has joined
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 902 2012-04-03 16:52:42 d4de has joined
 903 2012-04-03 16:52:42 <luke-jr> ?
 904 2012-04-03 16:52:44 <graingert> luke-jr: I don't understand your difference between "owner" and "others"
 905 2012-04-03 16:53:08 <luke-jr> graingert: Joe Random User doesn't need to be able to install stuff on a device he doesn't own :P
 906 2012-04-03 16:53:23 <graingert> what about satellite boxes
 907 2012-04-03 16:53:27 <graingert> that are licensed not sold
 908 2012-04-03 16:53:46 <graingert> surely everyone will just license hardware
 909 2012-04-03 16:53:53 <graingert> rather than sell it
 910 2012-04-03 16:54:11 <graingert> and is that the only difference between "You cannot install it on your hardware (laser-equipped shark or otherwise) without also making sure that others can install another version" and what you are sayinbg
 911 2012-04-03 16:54:38 <graingert> if so I think you are a little bit too pedantic to call it false
 912 2012-04-03 16:56:07 <wumpus> graingert: yes, I don't mean it personally, but bitcoin is not exactly my dayjob and I get a bit tired of people acting like their issue is the most important in the world
 913 2012-04-03 16:56:16 <graingert> wumpus: I'm not
 914 2012-04-03 16:56:30 <graingert> I understand there are other issues, I just wanted to get it out there
 915 2012-04-03 16:56:53 <wumpus> in general, if your issue is really the most important in the world, I guess we can discuss payment :)
 916 2012-04-03 16:57:01 <graingert> sigh
 917 2012-04-03 16:57:05 <graingert> it's not
 918 2012-04-03 16:58:09 <gavinandresen> That's probably the most annoying thing about working on bitcoin-- people not understanding that THEIR priorities are probably not EVERYBODY's priorities.
 919 2012-04-03 16:58:42 <gavinandresen> ... and that the developer's priorities are going to trump theirs, because we're the ones doing the work.
 920 2012-04-03 16:58:51 <graingert> gavinandresen: It's like I demanded this feature at gunpoint or something
 921 2012-04-03 16:58:57 <graingert> what's going on?
 922 2012-04-03 16:59:01 <wumpus> gavinandresen: yeah it's a common problem in open source, unfortunately
 923 2012-04-03 16:59:06 <wumpus> graingert: it's not about you 
 924 2012-04-03 16:59:25 <gavinandresen> We're just tired of having long discussions about trivial features
 925 2012-04-03 17:00:00 <gavinandresen> (not saying your feature is trivial, I actually have no idea, haven't been paying attention)
 926 2012-04-03 17:00:02 <graingert> you don't need a long discussion. Peg it as a "Should" on moscow
 927 2012-04-03 17:00:06 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
 928 2012-04-03 17:00:19 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: from my perspective, it's pretty annoying that I *am* doing the work, but it often gets ignored because the person who has to click the merge button has different priorities ;)
 929 2012-04-03 17:00:31 <gavinandresen> (that's where you, graingert, say OK, thanks for all your hard work, hope you get around to it soon)
 930 2012-04-03 17:00:54 sgornick has joined
 931 2012-04-03 17:00:57 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: you don't listen to us when we say things like "NO TONAL"
 932 2012-04-03 17:01:04 <copumpkin> lol
 933 2012-04-03 17:01:08 cdecker has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 934 2012-04-03 17:01:26 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: only the tonal pullreq has tonal :p
 935 2012-04-03 17:01:41 <graingert> gavinandresen: I appreciate your work, but am offended that you feel I should have to thank you for it
 936 2012-04-03 17:01:41 <wumpus> many things are just that, stopgaps until someone implements something better... we're not lacking ideas, just time to implement them
 937 2012-04-03 17:01:43 <gavinandresen> sigh.  Fine.  No tonal, and no hexadecimal, either.
 938 2012-04-03 17:01:59 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: how does this relate to 99% of my pullreqs?
 939 2012-04-03 17:02:16 <gavinandresen> just an example of you being bull-headed and refusing to ever compromise.
 940 2012-04-03 17:02:58 <luke-jr> the contrary, IMO. I compromise all the time, but those are cases where you guys won't settle for anything short of your way.
 941 2012-04-03 17:03:10 <wumpus> in case of tonal, yes
 942 2012-04-03 17:03:31 <graingert> tonal as an option is fine imhiop
 943 2012-04-03 17:03:36 <graingert> imhop*
 944 2012-04-03 17:03:46 <graingert> but it should be implimented with the rest of i18n
 945 2012-04-03 17:03:49 <gavinandresen> then you don't understand UI design very well, imho
 946 2012-04-03 17:04:04 <wumpus> let's add options for things only 1 person on the world uses
 947 2012-04-03 17:04:25 <wumpus> since when has tonal to do with i18n? which country uses it?
 948 2012-04-03 17:04:26 Jarzilla has joined
 949 2012-04-03 17:04:35 <luke-jr> btw, I was talking mostly about stuff like coinbaser and the fee stuff :p
 950 2012-04-03 17:04:43 <gavinandresen> have we just been trolled?
 951 2012-04-03 17:04:48 <graingert> you read from the locale the number format needed
 952 2012-04-03 17:04:49 <wumpus> I guess
 953 2012-04-03 17:04:58 <graingert> and display that
 954 2012-04-03 17:05:05 <Jarzilla> Does ecoinpool allow more than 1 connection to a worker on an acccount?
 955 2012-04-03 17:05:17 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: you brought up tonal, not me :p
 956 2012-04-03 17:05:39 Joric has quit ()
 957 2012-04-03 17:05:41 <Graet> Jarzilla, yes
 958 2012-04-03 17:05:42 <luke-jr> Jarzilla: don't think anyone here knows the answer to that
 959 2012-04-03 17:05:48 <gavinandresen> jujitsu trolling, get your opponent to bring it up first....
 960 2012-04-03 17:05:49 <luke-jr> ah, Graet does
 961 2012-04-03 17:05:55 <Graet> works on ozcoin luke-jr
 962 2012-04-03 17:06:01 <Graet> :)
 963 2012-04-03 17:06:05 <Jarzilla> Awesome thanks man
 964 2012-04-03 17:06:09 <Graet> :)
 965 2012-04-03 17:06:10 * luke-jr notes he self-closed the tonal pullreq
 966 2012-04-03 17:06:38 <Jarzilla> PCE
 967 2012-04-03 17:06:44 Jarzilla has quit (Client Quit)
 968 2012-04-03 17:06:48 <luke-jr> PCE? O.o
 969 2012-04-03 17:07:33 <graingert> luke-jr: you should submit your tonal request to get it added as a QLocale option
 970 2012-04-03 17:07:51 andytoshi has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 971 2012-04-03 17:07:57 <luke-jr> graingert: glibc first, but it's a lot of work
 972 2012-04-03 17:08:02 <Graet> http://www.abbreviations.com/PCE got me :P
 973 2012-04-03 17:08:38 <wumpus> maybe first convince some dictator to use it in his country, the locales will follow
 974 2012-04-03 17:08:44 <luke-jr> graingert: the C standards and POSIX all assume decimal everywhere
 975 2012-04-03 17:08:55 <graingert> shocking
 976 2012-04-03 17:09:15 <luke-jr> wumpus: yeah, I guess that worked for SI
 977 2012-04-03 17:09:18 <wumpus> does the entire world use the decimal number system these days?
 978 2012-04-03 17:09:31 <wumpus> wow, at least something humanity can agree on. I'm surprised.
 979 2012-04-03 17:09:32 <luke-jr> wumpus: except for people who use tonal and dozenal
 980 2012-04-03 17:09:40 <luke-jr> not sure if there's any octal users
 981 2012-04-03 17:10:24 <wumpus> luke-jr: I wonder what got you into that
 982 2012-04-03 17:10:30 <graingert> totally think we should get roman numerals in as well
 983 2012-04-03 17:10:36 <graingert> and base e
 984 2012-04-03 17:11:07 <luke-jr> wumpus: hexadecimal seemed so obviously superior than decimal, but I didn't feel competent to make up a system on my own; so I went looking for an established preexisting one, and finally found it
 985 2012-04-03 17:11:12 * sipa feels ignored as a base-phi user
 986 2012-04-03 17:11:32 <luke-jr> amazingly, I think I found Tonal via a Slashdot comment
 987 2012-04-03 17:11:33 <wumpus> using roman numerals would be classy
 988 2012-04-03 17:11:55 <graingert> how is 4 represented on a clock
 989 2012-04-03 17:12:00 <graingert> don't google
 990 2012-04-03 17:12:01 <wumpus> luke-jr: yes, I saw there is actually a book about it
 991 2012-04-03 17:12:03 <sipa> IV
 992 2012-04-03 17:12:04 <graingert> it's cheating
 993 2012-04-03 17:12:06 <sipa> no, IIII
 994 2012-04-03 17:12:17 <graingert> sipa: did you cheat?
 995 2012-04-03 17:12:20 <luke-jr> graingert: "4"
 996 2012-04-03 17:12:20 <graingert> >.>
 997 2012-04-03 17:12:23 <wumpus> only three I's in a row are allowed right?
 998 2012-04-03 17:12:24 <graingert> luke-jr: sigh
 999 2012-04-03 17:12:29 <luke-jr> :D
1000 2012-04-03 17:12:32 <graingert> I meant a "roman" style clock
1001 2012-04-03 17:12:33 <sipa> graingert: no
1002 2012-04-03 17:12:37 <graingert> wumpus: nope
1003 2012-04-03 17:12:44 <graingert> wumpus: you are allowed to google images now
1004 2012-04-03 17:13:09 <sipa> any idea why?
1005 2012-04-03 17:13:13 <wumpus> I see it on wikipedia now, weird
1006 2012-04-03 17:14:30 <graingert> big ben is IV: http://i.imgur.com/MSWGE.png
1007 2012-04-03 17:14:37 <wumpus> tonal has a wikipedia article too, somehow not surprised to see luke-jr as author  :-)
1008 2012-04-03 17:14:43 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1009 2012-04-03 17:15:10 <luke-jr> *an* author :p
1010 2012-04-03 17:15:18 <wumpus> an, yes
1011 2012-04-03 17:17:54 <imsaguy2> this quote sums it up well "This first hexadecimal system, proposed in the 19th century, had no success at all."
1012 2012-04-03 17:19:10 <copumpkin> luke-jr: do you have an exposition somewhere of why it is superior to existing hexadecimal notation?
1013 2012-04-03 17:19:48 <imsaguy2> read the wikipedia article
1014 2012-04-03 17:19:54 <imsaguy2> its a decent start
1015 2012-04-03 17:20:03 <copumpkin> I thought I had read it
1016 2012-04-03 17:22:17 erle- has joined
1017 2012-04-03 17:22:42 <luke-jr> copumpkin: tonal isn't merely notation, it's a complete system.
1018 2012-04-03 17:23:32 <copumpkin> yeah, I guess I'm asking why keep the old notation if 1) everyone's already used to the new notation 2) nobody can type or even read the old notation without special fonts that they probably won't have unless they're already proponents of the system
1019 2012-04-03 17:24:36 <luke-jr> copumpkin: Tonal is the old notation.
1020 2012-04-03 17:24:43 <luke-jr> err, misread
1021 2012-04-03 17:25:35 <luke-jr> copumpkin: everyone using Tonal, is used to the Tonal notation; furthermore, hexadecimal notation is inherently flawed for regular usage
1022 2012-04-03 17:26:29 <luke-jr> copumpkin: finally, changing notation is effectively creating a new system; if someone wanted to do that, there are other bigger problems with tonal that should be addressed first
1023 2012-04-03 17:26:41 <copumpkin> luke-jr: yeah, but I thought the goal was to appeal to a broader audience. I'm not vehemently opposed to using base-16 in more places, but I think it's unrealistic to expect me to start using PUA code points in things I expect other people to read
1024 2012-04-03 17:27:02 <copumpkin> pick-up artists? :O
1025 2012-04-03 17:27:08 <copumpkin> aha, private use areas! :)
1026 2012-04-03 17:27:26 <luke-jr> copumpkin: personally, I would prefer to not share *any* codepoints with decimal :p
1027 2012-04-03 17:28:02 <luke-jr> impossible to confuse the two if they used completely sets of digits
1028 2012-04-03 17:28:46 <copumpkin> luke-jr: I can understand that, but even with unshared code points, the glyphs are very similar for most of the digits shared with decimal, which seems like it could be confusing
1029 2012-04-03 17:30:23 <luke-jr> in any case, I see no immediate need to invent a new system
1030 2012-04-03 17:30:28 <luke-jr> tonal works fine for me
1031 2012-04-03 17:30:43 <copumpkin> :)
1032 2012-04-03 17:35:54 <wumpus> does tonal also support fractions and/or real numbers? or is it integers only?
1033 2012-04-03 17:38:07 <luke-jr> wumpus: of course
1034 2012-04-03 17:38:17 m00p has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1035 2012-04-03 17:38:17 <luke-jr> there are 4 fractional places in TBC
1036 2012-04-03 17:38:51 <wumpus> right
1037 2012-04-03 17:40:06 Jezzz has joined
1038 2012-04-03 17:42:30 forsetifox has joined
1039 2012-04-03 17:43:28 Cablesaurus has joined
1040 2012-04-03 17:43:28 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
1041 2012-04-03 17:43:28 Cablesaurus has joined
1042 2012-04-03 17:50:49 <Graet> https://blockchain.info/ fun and ghames again?
1043 2012-04-03 17:50:52 cande has joined
1044 2012-04-03 17:51:21 <Graet> deebit orphaned ozcoin then built on ozcoins block (or was relayed thru)
1045 2012-04-03 17:52:56 <Graet> 174162 and 174163
1046 2012-04-03 17:53:34 m00p has joined
1047 2012-04-03 17:55:20 <Cory> Why doesn't blockchain.info show a double arrow after 174161 like the other forks?
1048 2012-04-03 17:56:10 <Graet> good q :P
1049 2012-04-03 17:56:40 dvide has quit ()
1050 2012-04-03 18:04:00 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
1051 2012-04-03 18:08:57 agricocb has joined
1052 2012-04-03 18:08:58 agricocb has quit (Changing host)
1053 2012-04-03 18:08:58 agricocb has joined
1054 2012-04-03 18:11:48 <Graet> i'm thinking the longest chain has stopped and the shorter one will keep growing and become valid
1055 2012-04-03 18:16:45 TD has joined
1056 2012-04-03 18:17:57 Phoebus has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1057 2012-04-03 18:18:47 <Cory> Another 4-block fork. :/
1058 2012-04-03 18:19:07 <Diablo-D3> Graet: wouldnt that be hilarious
1059 2012-04-03 18:19:11 Phoebus has joined
1060 2012-04-03 18:20:02 Clipse has joined
1061 2012-04-03 18:20:57 <Graet> we just built on the norphan fork and won!!
1062 2012-04-03 18:20:59 <Graet> lmao
1063 2012-04-03 18:21:46 * pusle makes popcorn
1064 2012-04-03 18:22:29 <pusle> deepbit builds on both? uhm
1065 2012-04-03 18:23:19 <Graet> or blocks relayed thru deepbit
1066 2012-04-03 18:23:31 <Graet> bit hard to tell sometimes
1067 2012-04-03 18:24:26 <Graet> http://blockchain.info/orphaned-blocks as it should be now :P
1068 2012-04-03 18:27:35 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1069 2012-04-03 18:29:33 Ukto has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1070 2012-04-03 18:35:10 <wumpus> sipa,gavinandresen: #949 (VC2010 fixes) can go into 0.6.1? I've just rebased and verified that gitian win32 build still works
1071 2012-04-03 18:35:20 <gavinandresen> wumpus: sure
1072 2012-04-03 18:35:31 <wumpus> ok thanks
1073 2012-04-03 18:35:45 <gavinandresen> that's the kind of code cleanup I like to see....
1074 2012-04-03 18:37:05 <[Tycho]> Actually it's pretty easy to tell which are mine.
1075 2012-04-03 18:37:48 <luke-jr> 936,987 ?
1076 2012-04-03 18:39:41 <[Tycho]> But blockchaininfo's graphs are confusing
1077 2012-04-03 18:39:47 ELT has quit (Quit: leaving)
1078 2012-04-03 18:40:51 <[Tycho]> I mined 3 blocks in a row on top of OzCoin to win this fork.
1079 2012-04-03 18:43:02 <Graet> :D
1080 2012-04-03 18:43:17 <Graet> i watched :)
1081 2012-04-03 18:43:42 <Graet> then we put one on top lol
1082 2012-04-03 18:44:25 <[Tycho]> I lost only one block since 01.04, for unrelated reason.
1083 2012-04-03 18:44:58 <[Tycho]> But it's amazing that fireworks are still not ceased.
1084 2012-04-03 18:45:11 <luke-jr> in 2012, war was beginning
1085 2012-04-03 18:45:18 <luke-jr> <Graet> What happen⁉
1086 2012-04-03 18:45:26 <luke-jr> <[Tycho]> Someone set us up the bomb
1087 2012-04-03 18:46:14 <luke-jr> <Mystery Miner> Hello gentlemen. All your blocks are belong to us.
1088 2012-04-03 18:46:16 <Graet> but we defused it, all is good :P
1089 2012-04-03 18:46:38 <luke-jr> <Graet> ITS YOU!
1090 2012-04-03 18:46:55 <luke-jr> <[Tycho]> Prepare all rig. You know what to do!"
1091 2012-04-03 18:47:04 <Graet> shh luke-jr
1092 2012-04-03 18:47:06 <luke-jr> <.<
1093 2012-04-03 18:47:12 <Graet> you let out all my secrets :/
1094 2012-04-03 18:47:13 <Graet> lmao
1095 2012-04-03 18:47:32 <denisx> all your coinbase belong to us!
1096 2012-04-03 18:47:53 <[Tycho]> Graet: do you know what game he refers to ?
1097 2012-04-03 18:48:03 <Graet> no idea [Tycho]
1098 2012-04-03 18:48:08 * luke-jr facepalms
1099 2012-04-03 18:48:13 <Graet> lmao
1100 2012-04-03 18:48:17 <forsetifox> Old Japanese poorly translated game. Heh.
1101 2012-04-03 18:48:23 <[Tycho]> Graet: I suspected it.
1102 2012-04-03 18:48:29 <Graet> i play no games anymore
1103 2012-04-03 18:48:38 <forsetifox> Not even Fallout? =O
1104 2012-04-03 18:48:39 <Graet> aqnd cod was about all i did
1105 2012-04-03 18:48:43 <[Tycho]> No one played it, it's 8 bit for NES
1106 2012-04-03 18:48:57 <luke-jr> XD
1107 2012-04-03 18:49:04 <denisx> its from Zero Wing
1108 2012-04-03 18:49:43 <Cory> Nobody in this channel doesn't get it.
1109 2012-04-03 18:49:57 <luke-jr> Cory: except Graet
1110 2012-04-03 18:50:07 <Graet> oneday soon i will trifire some 6950s or xfire some 7970s and play some cod again lmao
1111 2012-04-03 18:50:20 <luke-jr> Graet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfwqvUPIRkg
1112 2012-04-03 18:50:21 <Graet> i'm old and ignorant of most games
1113 2012-04-03 18:50:48 <Cory> Graet: All your base are belong to us. You've heard that before.
1114 2012-04-03 18:51:01 <Graet> i mhave heard it yes
1115 2012-04-03 18:51:39 <luke-jr> Graet: this game is 1989
1116 2012-04-03 18:51:44 <[Tycho]> Last time I remember launching any game was the day when I get my first 5970 more than a year ago. Tried to run Portal and HL2 on it and then took it out to a mining rig :)
1117 2012-04-03 18:53:03 <Graet> 1989 hmm
1118 2012-04-03 18:53:07 <Cory> I'm sure those really taxed your 5970.
1119 2012-04-03 18:53:12 <denisx> I played crysis2 on three crossfired 5870 ;)
1120 2012-04-03 18:53:21 <Graet> just moved to th country
1121 2012-04-03 18:53:42 <Graet> i havent played a game since i had single 5770 :P
1122 2012-04-03 18:55:20 user_ has joined
1123 2012-04-03 18:59:17 Nesetalis has joined
1124 2012-04-03 19:01:24 <luke-jr> http://bitcoinstatus.rowit.co.uk/versions.html <-- I'd like to see this plot in stack form
1125 2012-04-03 19:06:26 <MC1984> 2 v7 nodes?
1126 2012-04-03 19:06:28 <MC1984> wtf
1127 2012-04-03 19:06:40 <MC1984> time travel mang
1128 2012-04-03 19:06:48 <Diablo-D3> MAN
1129 2012-04-03 19:06:51 <Diablo-D3> a lot of fuckers need to upgrade
1130 2012-04-03 19:07:21 <luke-jr> MC1984: next-test reports 7000000 protocol
1131 2012-04-03 19:07:28 <luke-jr> MC1984: due to the pong thing
1132 2012-04-03 19:07:43 <MC1984> what
1133 2012-04-03 19:07:56 <luke-jr> MC1984: that site only reports protocol versions, not clients
1134 2012-04-03 19:08:08 <MC1984> same thing?
1135 2012-04-03 19:08:10 <luke-jr> no
1136 2012-04-03 19:08:16 <luke-jr> not since 0.6
1137 2012-04-03 19:08:21 <MC1984> ok well protocol v7
1138 2012-04-03 19:08:23 <MC1984> TIME TRAVEL
1139 2012-04-03 19:08:31 merde has joined
1140 2012-04-03 19:08:32 <luke-jr> protocol v7 is currently claimed by v6 + pong reply
1141 2012-04-03 19:08:35 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1142 2012-04-03 19:08:47 <luke-jr> I know my node is one of those two :p
1143 2012-04-03 19:08:48 <MC1984> ok v6+ TIME TRAVEL
1144 2012-04-03 19:09:07 <MC1984> v6 came out 2 days ago
1145 2012-04-03 19:09:15 <luke-jr> MC1984: so?
1146 2012-04-03 19:09:59 <wumpus> there were already prereleases for a long time, which also had protocol version 6 I suppose?
1147 2012-04-03 19:10:07 <gmaxwell> MC1984: people have been deploying release candidates for a long time.
1148 2012-04-03 19:10:22 <luke-jr> MC1984: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=73945.0 reports proto v7
1149 2012-04-03 19:10:25 <MC1984> no, its obviously time travel
1150 2012-04-03 19:10:45 <luke-jr> MC1984: k, so time travel yourself with next-test :P
1151 2012-04-03 19:11:06 <MC1984> i have seent he future, mining a block is a capital crime
1152 2012-04-03 19:11:26 <luke-jr> in which jurisdiction?
1153 2012-04-03 19:11:38 <wumpus> with time travel you could very easily cheat on other miners
1154 2012-04-03 19:12:05 <luke-jr> wumpus: how?
1155 2012-04-03 19:12:37 erle- has quit (Quit: erle-)
1156 2012-04-03 19:12:48 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: khorben opened pull request 1029 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1029>
1157 2012-04-03 19:14:10 zeiris has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1158 2012-04-03 19:15:36 BurtyB has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1159 2012-04-03 19:15:42 <MC1984> Also note this is the first next-test that excludes my Coinbaser enhancement. Click here for details.
1160 2012-04-03 19:15:49 <MC1984> does that mean less bible verses?
1161 2012-04-03 19:16:20 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: do you still have that node with the poison txn?
1162 2012-04-03 19:16:35 <wumpus> luke-jr: good point, it doesn't really help to have the block chain of the future
1163 2012-04-03 19:16:52 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1164 2012-04-03 19:17:04 <luke-jr> wumpus: well, you could double-spend… just didn't see a miner-specific thing :p
1165 2012-04-03 19:17:11 <wumpus> heh
1166 2012-04-03 19:17:12 BurtyB has joined
1167 2012-04-03 19:17:29 <luke-jr> for that matter, does ANYONE here have a pre-P2SH node running?>
1168 2012-04-03 19:17:38 <luke-jr> running for at least a few days
1169 2012-04-03 19:17:41 <[Tycho]> Yes.
1170 2012-04-03 19:17:48 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: 0.5?
1171 2012-04-03 19:17:55 <[Tycho]> Why ? 0.3.X
1172 2012-04-03 19:17:59 <luke-jr> bleh
1173 2012-04-03 19:18:08 <luke-jr> 0.5 is the only way I know how to extract txn pool
1174 2012-04-03 19:18:13 forsetifox has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1175 2012-04-03 19:18:55 <Graet> i do but its not a mining node
1176 2012-04-03 19:19:18 <[Tycho]> I can extract TXes, but it's not in my memorypool.
1177 2012-04-03 19:19:26 DamascusVG has quit (Quit: I Quit - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p97zsQ51Rw)
1178 2012-04-03 19:19:35 <[Tycho]> Why do you want it ? Just encode it in P2SH again.
1179 2012-04-03 19:20:13 <luke-jr> Graet: every 0.5 has getmemorypool ;)
1180 2012-04-03 19:20:20 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: because nobody knows what it is
1181 2012-04-03 19:21:09 <luke-jr> Graet: can you see if you have 4005d6bea3 (check debug.log) ?
1182 2012-04-03 19:21:10 <[Tycho]> Blockchaininfo knows :)
1183 2012-04-03 19:21:19 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: but it doesn't let us get at the info
1184 2012-04-03 19:21:29 <[Tycho]> Have you tried to ask him ?
1185 2012-04-03 19:21:32 <luke-jr> no
1186 2012-04-03 19:21:41 <luke-jr> I'm impatient, and he responds slow. :P
1187 2012-04-03 19:21:54 <[Tycho]> Why do you think it's not just P2SH-encoded 1-of-1 multisig ?
1188 2012-04-03 19:23:11 <luke-jr> Graet: actually, your miner nodes' blk0001.dat would have it too :D
1189 2012-04-03 19:24:34 <Graet> miner nodes are 0.6
1190 2012-04-03 19:24:37 <djoot> any help? ERROR: ConnectInputs() : 4005d6bea3 P2SH VerifySignature failed
1191 2012-04-03 19:24:45 <luke-jr> djoot: no
1192 2012-04-03 19:24:53 <luke-jr> Graet: but they made blocks containing it in the past
1193 2012-04-03 19:25:08 <Graet> tru that
1194 2012-04-03 19:26:27 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: you should be able to easily find it on the network— but yes I still have that node up. Unfortunately I started it with listening disabled. :(
1195 2012-04-03 19:26:47 forsetifox has joined
1196 2012-04-03 19:27:01 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I can't, apparently nodes won't let you getdata old txns
1197 2012-04-03 19:27:30 <gmaxwell> hm? they should let you getdata unless its fallen out of their memory pool.
1198 2012-04-03 19:27:53 <gmaxwell> meh. it would kinda suck if the orphaning stopped and thus people didn't bother fixing their nodes, only to have it happen again weeks from now.
1199 2012-04-03 19:30:23 <nanotube> so anyone who's not mining but using an older version, would generally be "ok" ?
1200 2012-04-03 19:30:25 ThomasV has joined
1201 2012-04-03 19:30:38 <nanotube> as long as they wait for more confs than usual? :)
1202 2012-04-03 19:30:45 <gmaxwell> nanotube: Yes.
1203 2012-04-03 19:31:05 <gmaxwell> assuming they don't get stuck on one of these forks due to the reorg bug.
1204 2012-04-03 19:31:11 <Diablo-D3> top ten: deepbit, btcguild, slush, abc, maxbtc, bitlc, emc, eligius, p2pool, bitclockers
1205 2012-04-03 19:31:21 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
1206 2012-04-03 19:31:24 <nanotube> gmaxwell: when was the reorg bug fixed?
1207 2012-04-03 19:31:32 <Graet> abc is a pool?
1208 2012-04-03 19:31:44 <Diablo-D3> yes
1209 2012-04-03 19:31:54 <[Tycho]> Isn't it a proxy ?
1210 2012-04-03 19:31:57 <Graet> yes
1211 2012-04-03 19:32:00 <gmaxwell> Fortunately this doesn't appear to have happened yet— probably because most of the deadend forks.
1212 2012-04-03 19:32:07 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: What Graet said.
1213 2012-04-03 19:32:18 <Diablo-D3> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=33586.0
1214 2012-04-03 19:32:43 <gmaxwell> Poolhopping proxies shouldn't be listed in the count: (1) because their hashrate is double counted, (2) because their rate could be pure lies with no way of checking
1215 2012-04-03 19:32:49 <[Tycho]> AFAIK it's a hopping proxy
1216 2012-04-03 19:32:52 <Graet> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=33586.msg829111#msg829111 Diablo-D3
1217 2012-04-03 19:33:06 <Graet> they mine non ozcoin a *lot*
1218 2012-04-03 19:33:09 <Graet> on*
1219 2012-04-03 19:33:16 * Diablo-D3 shrugs
1220 2012-04-03 19:33:21 <Diablo-D3> if p2pool can be listed, so can they
1221 2012-04-03 19:33:38 <[Tycho]> p2pool is at least really mining
1222 2012-04-03 19:33:43 <Graet> ^^^
1223 2012-04-03 19:33:54 <[Tycho]> But ABCpool is not.
1224 2012-04-03 19:34:06 <Graet> why not list gpumax - they allegedly have >1ghash of power
1225 2012-04-03 19:34:10 <Diablo-D3> well, its either that, or I delete the thread and ban abcpool from the board.
1226 2012-04-03 19:34:17 <luke-jr> Graet: thash*
1227 2012-04-03 19:34:29 <Graet> oop correct luke-jr :)
1228 2012-04-03 19:34:37 <Diablo-D3> where is their thread
1229 2012-04-03 19:34:38 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: (0) p2pool is actually pooling hashrate, (1) p2pool's hashrate isn't double counted, (2) p2pool's rate can be validated by anyone.
1230 2012-04-03 19:34:50 <gmaxwell> s/hashrate/payments/ really but whatever.
1231 2012-04-03 19:35:16 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: and I'd lean towards punting proxy services, if it had to be one or the other.
1232 2012-04-03 19:35:18 topi` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1233 2012-04-03 19:37:34 * Diablo-D3 shrugs
1234 2012-04-03 19:37:38 <MC1984> dafuq is a pool proxy
1235 2012-04-03 19:37:57 <MC1984> how many abstractions away from the actual network are we gonna have
1236 2012-04-03 19:40:01 <Diablo-D3> top ten: deepbit, btcguild, slush, maxbtc, bitlc, emc, eligius, p2pool, bitclockers, ozcoin
1237 2012-04-03 19:40:59 <luke-jr> how about removing the top 3? :P
1238 2012-04-03 19:41:05 <luke-jr> they don't need any more miners
1239 2012-04-03 19:41:21 <Diablo-D3> okay, Ill do it for 50 btc.
1240 2012-04-03 19:43:55 <Diablo-D3> hrm
1241 2012-04-03 19:44:02 <Diablo-D3> I should shitlist maxbtc
1242 2012-04-03 19:44:17 <Diablo-D3> 465 ghash, 18 miners?
1243 2012-04-03 19:44:19 ForceMajeure has joined
1244 2012-04-03 19:44:56 <MC1984> ok according to http://bitcoinstatus.rowit.co.uk/versions.html half the current network is still on v324
1245 2012-04-03 19:45:06 <MC1984> no wonder block download is still toss
1246 2012-04-03 19:45:40 <gmaxwell> MC1984: hm?
1247 2012-04-03 19:45:55 <gmaxwell> 0.3.24 is post the fix against randomly hanging up on you.
1248 2012-04-03 19:46:00 tg has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1249 2012-04-03 19:46:37 <MC1984> well its just shit then
1250 2012-04-03 19:47:20 <MC1984> christ are there really less than 1000 proper nodes out there
1251 2012-04-03 19:47:51 zeiris has joined
1252 2012-04-03 19:48:07 <gmaxwell> MC1984: nah, sipa has a couple thousand in his dnsseed list.
1253 2012-04-03 19:48:47 <MC1984> there needs to be millions long term
1254 2012-04-03 19:49:42 <gmaxwell> Er, I don't agree with that.
1255 2012-04-03 19:49:50 <gmaxwell> Not millions at least.
1256 2012-04-03 19:50:17 <MC1984> why not
1257 2012-04-03 19:51:09 <gmaxwell> Because it would be realistic to support thousands of connections on dedicated nodes, though we don't today.
1258 2012-04-03 19:51:58 <MC1984> so you want to centralise the network
1259 2012-04-03 19:52:06 <gmaxwell> MC1984: ...
1260 2012-04-03 19:52:26 <gmaxwell> MC1984: having 100,000 public nodes would be the most distributed system ever built.
1261 2012-04-03 19:52:36 <gmaxwell> And yet it is still a far cry from millions.
1262 2012-04-03 19:52:46 <MC1984> 100k minimum then
1263 2012-04-03 19:52:58 <twmz> 5 trillion
1264 2012-04-03 19:53:00 <gmaxwell> And presumably if there are someday many millions of bitcoin clients, a fair portion of them will be thin and lite nodes that don't have any reason to connect to 8 nodes.
1265 2012-04-03 19:53:05 <twmz> if we are just randomly throwing out numbers...
1266 2012-04-03 19:53:32 <MC1984> it is important that its very very distributed
1267 2012-04-03 19:53:49 <wumpus> twmz: through spaaaace!
1268 2012-04-03 19:53:50 tg has joined
1269 2012-04-03 19:54:04 <MC1984> otherwise why not just rent an ec2 and throw up a single ledger on that and try an butter up the govt not to pull it
1270 2012-04-03 19:54:25 <MC1984> 100k nodes is a start id say
1271 2012-04-03 19:54:27 <gmaxwell> Sure. But there are many orders of magnitude possible that still meets the definition of very distributed.
1272 2012-04-03 19:54:29 <MC1984> long term
1273 2012-04-03 19:54:37 <twmz> you're over exagerating the situation, I think
1274 2012-04-03 19:54:41 <[Tycho]> "gmaxwell: 0.3.24 is post the fix against randomly hanging up on you." - what was that fix ?
1275 2012-04-03 19:54:46 <luke-jr> MC1984: Bitcoin is government-friendly.
1276 2012-04-03 19:54:59 <twmz> TOR is successfully avoiding government shutdown and they only have about 800 nodes
1277 2012-04-03 19:55:31 <wumpus> that's been done MC1984, see loom.cc
1278 2012-04-03 19:55:33 <MC1984> its not like theyve ever tried
1279 2012-04-03 19:55:44 <MC1984> + tor is quite useful to the feds anyway
1280 2012-04-03 19:55:45 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: older versions of bitcoin (0.3.19-0.3.23?) would hang up if a peer requested more than 10MB of blocks at once. Once the blocks started becoming large enough that started to cause problems (around block 100k or so).
1281 2012-04-03 19:56:19 <[Tycho]> gmaxwell: can you give me a link to the fix ? I want to check it.
1282 2012-04-03 19:58:24 <gmaxwell> wumpus: man, your QT merge really swisscheezed the git history.
1283 2012-04-03 19:58:29 <MC1984> wtf is loom.cc
1284 2012-04-03 19:58:54 <Graet> would an "orphaned" block like 174162 normally not show in wallet until fork is resolved?
1285 2012-04-03 19:59:02 <MC1984> also im sure the bittorrent dht is the largest distributed system in the world
1286 2012-04-03 19:59:07 <MC1984> probably 100 million nodes
1287 2012-04-03 20:00:03 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: It's commit 497317453422611a077f7f195eb193d3bb597a9c
1288 2012-04-03 20:00:15 <[Tycho]> Thanks.
1289 2012-04-03 20:00:26 <Diablo-D3> MC1984: loom is an an electronic payment service
1290 2012-04-03 20:01:40 <wumpus> yes, a completely centralized one
1291 2012-04-03 20:04:47 <wumpus> gmaxwell: yes it was quite a long-term merge... but not the worst thing that happened, it was already weird before that (for example, why is "First Commit" in there twice)
1292 2012-04-03 20:07:17 <MC1984> Decentralised electronic money systems include:
1293 2012-04-03 20:07:18 <MC1984> Ripple monetary system, a monetary system based on trust networks.
1294 2012-04-03 20:07:18 <MC1984> Bitcoin, a peer-to-peer electronic monetary system based on cryptography.
1295 2012-04-03 20:07:18 <MC1984> Loom, a digitally encrypted commodity exchange system, warehouse certificates that can be used as currency.[3]
1296 2012-04-03 20:07:26 <MC1984> wut
1297 2012-04-03 20:09:33 <wumpus> loom is not decentralized afaik, or it must be something recent
1298 2012-04-03 20:09:54 <Diablo-D3> its not
1299 2012-04-03 20:09:59 <Diablo-D3> loom has been around for quite some time
1300 2012-04-03 20:15:13 <MC1984> i dont get loom
1301 2012-04-03 20:17:19 <MC1984> seems like boilerplate contract maker to me
1302 2012-04-03 20:17:24 <nanotube> yea loom is basically a central db.
1303 2012-04-03 20:17:37 <nanotube> ripple is decentraliz-able, but not currently decentralized.
1304 2012-04-03 20:17:43 <nanotube> so ... i guess that just leaves bitcoin :)
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1314 2012-04-03 20:35:30 BTC_Bear is now known as BTC_Bear|hbrntng
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1316 2012-04-03 20:37:23 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
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1327 2012-04-03 21:00:38 <luke-jr> I can't guess the scriptSig for 4005d6bea3a93fb72f006d23e2685b85069d270cb57d15f0c057ef2d5e3f78d2
1328 2012-04-03 21:04:10 agricocb has joined
1329 2012-04-03 21:09:39 MBS has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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1334 2012-04-03 21:31:26 cande has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1335 2012-04-03 21:32:19 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: why ? You know the internal script of P2SH.
1336 2012-04-03 21:32:31 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: no, I don't.
1337 2012-04-03 21:32:43 <luke-jr> it's NOT OP_1 << vchPubKey << OP_1 << OP_CHECKMULTISIG
1338 2012-04-03 21:33:03 <[Tycho]> Why ?
1339 2012-04-03 21:33:25 Joric has joined
1340 2012-04-03 21:33:47 <[Tycho]> Do you have a supernode ? Can you just request this TX from everyone, especially from old versions ?
1341 2012-04-03 21:34:44 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Quitte)
1342 2012-04-03 21:34:46 pusle has quit ()
1343 2012-04-03 21:35:56 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: no version will give it to me this late
1344 2012-04-03 21:36:05 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1345 2012-04-03 21:36:08 <[Tycho]> Was it lost ?
1346 2012-04-03 21:36:21 <luke-jr> it's been in "no relay" status for a while
1347 2012-04-03 21:36:52 <luke-jr> the only way I can think of to get it, is to find a pre-BIP16 0.5 node and use getmemorypool
1348 2012-04-03 21:38:01 <sipa> luke-jr: see http://bitcoin.sipa.be/seeds.txt and look for /Satoshi:0.5.99/
1349 2012-04-03 21:47:02 ELT has joined
1350 2012-04-03 21:49:11 <gmaxwell> Yea, but getmemorypool is not exposed to the internets.
1351 2012-04-03 21:49:22 <gmaxwell> And I'm not running one.
1352 2012-04-03 21:49:34 <gmaxwell> Though I suppose I should just run every version.
1353 2012-04-03 21:50:45 mmoya has joined
1354 2012-04-03 21:53:32 <luke-jr> XD
1355 2012-04-03 21:57:08 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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1358 2012-04-03 22:01:34 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: dooglus opened pull request 1030 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1030>
1359 2012-04-03 22:02:54 brokenwallet has joined
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1364 2012-04-03 22:05:01 <brokenwallet> should corrupted wallet questions be asked here?
1365 2012-04-03 22:09:20 <t7> brokenwallet:  yeah i think so
1366 2012-04-03 22:09:44 <brokenwallet> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1024
1367 2012-04-03 22:10:20 <brokenwallet> that one seems active but old ones also exist https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/955
1368 2012-04-03 22:10:48 <brokenwallet> the weird part is i even have a backup that hasnt been touched since jan and that even crashes (but i've sent payment after jan)
1369 2012-04-03 22:11:19 <t7> brokenwallet: have you recovered the public and private keys?
1370 2012-04-03 22:11:27 <t7> that the important part
1371 2012-04-03 22:11:40 <brokenwallet> yes but they are encrypted
1372 2012-04-03 22:11:49 <brokenwallet> bitcointools (or whatever) runs without issue
1373 2012-04-03 22:12:09 <brokenwallet> and i tried various options using that tool, then tried the newly generated wallet with the same error
1374 2012-04-03 22:12:15 <gmaxwell> brokenwallet: How was your backup made? and have you tried using it with a completely virgin node? (e.g. no database files at all?)
1375 2012-04-03 22:12:49 <brokenwallet> it is just the wallet backed up gmaxwell, i know i've tried it on a virgin node (even diff computer) with the latest code
1376 2012-04-03 22:12:56 <brokenwallet> i cant remember if i've tried it with an older version yet
1377 2012-04-03 22:13:09 <gmaxwell> brokenwallet: Right, but how did you back it up?
1378 2012-04-03 22:13:12 <brokenwallet> i've tried my current wallet with older versions
1379 2012-04-03 22:13:14 <brokenwallet> copy/paste
1380 2012-04-03 22:13:18 <brokenwallet> wallet.dat only
1381 2012-04-03 22:13:19 <gmaxwell> Did you copy it while the node was running?
1382 2012-04-03 22:13:24 <brokenwallet> possibly
1383 2012-04-03 22:13:27 <brokenwallet> i cant remember
1384 2012-04-03 22:13:33 <gmaxwell> If so the backup may be no good.
1385 2012-04-03 22:13:57 <brokenwallet> but i've sent/received payments since then using the current wallet, and both wallets fail with the same error
1386 2012-04-03 22:14:09 <gmaxwell> You get an error?
1387 2012-04-03 22:14:27 <brokenwallet> yes https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1024
1388 2012-04-03 22:14:34 <brokenwallet> only when sending or trying to change passwords
1389 2012-04-03 22:14:44 <brokenwallet> i can see all the coins/transactions otherwise
1390 2012-04-03 22:15:00 <brokenwallet> and i also tried a bunch of passwords before this happened
1391 2012-04-03 22:15:00 <sipa> right, so one particular key is corrupted
1392 2012-04-03 22:15:13 <brokenwallet> probably sipa is there a way to tell which and strip it?
1393 2012-04-03 22:15:20 <brokenwallet> i didnt see that option with bitcointools
1394 2012-04-03 22:15:30 <sipa> you compile from source?
1395 2012-04-03 22:15:42 <sipa> or use a binary?
1396 2012-04-03 22:15:45 <brokenwallet> no but i could tomorrow
1397 2012-04-03 22:16:04 <brokenwallet> the comp i normally use it on is from win binary
1398 2012-04-03 22:16:35 <sipa> i have a very simple patch that checks all keys at decryption time, and ignores the faulty ones
1399 2012-04-03 22:16:46 <brokenwallet> sweet
1400 2012-04-03 22:17:04 <brokenwallet> sounds like that is what i need, and i hope the bad key isnt the one i use from my pool
1401 2012-04-03 22:19:38 <sipa> if you can wait a few minutes and trust me, i can give you a windows build
1402 2012-04-03 22:20:03 <t7> sipa: you build from unix?
1403 2012-04-03 22:20:19 <sipa> yes, i run gitian
1404 2012-04-03 22:20:41 <brokenwallet> ok, the sipa username looks legit. i cant remember how to check nickserv to see if it is registered. or even know if freenode does that
1405 2012-04-03 22:21:13 <t7> i woulnd trust him
1406 2012-04-03 22:21:15 <t7> ;)
1407 2012-04-03 22:21:25 <brokenwallet> it isnt a massive amount of coins in the first place, but i'll throw you a few if it works
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1409 2012-04-03 22:23:18 <sipa> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/builds/0.6.0-1-gc8bd77b/
1410 2012-04-03 22:23:45 <sipa> it's signed using the gpg key http://bitcoin.org/pieterwuille.asc
1411 2012-04-03 22:24:18 <brokenwallet> k give me a second
1412 2012-04-03 22:25:04 <brokenwallet> oh off topic, but why is the exe build for bitcoin always smaller than the zip?
1413 2012-04-03 22:25:29 <t7> i wondered this
1414 2012-04-03 22:26:12 <sipa> brokenwallet: better compression algorithm
1415 2012-04-03 22:26:43 stalled has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1416 2012-04-03 22:27:53 <sipa> brokenwallet: oh, you should run bitcoin with the -recovery option to enable the extra checking
1417 2012-04-03 22:28:14 <sipa> note that if you use a wrong password and -recovery, it will simply throw out *all* keys
1418 2012-04-03 22:28:23 <sipa> (the wallet is not modified, it's only in memory)
1419 2012-04-03 22:28:54 <brokenwallet> hmm the password that i was using that caused it to crash (that i thought was right) is claiming it is incorrect
1420 2012-04-03 22:29:14 <sipa> if you use -recovery it should never say your password is incorrect
1421 2012-04-03 22:29:27 <brokenwallet> ok i'll try that
1422 2012-04-03 22:29:41 <brokenwallet> would it say it is incorrect if one key is corrupted otherwise?
1423 2012-04-03 22:29:49 <sipa> maybe
1424 2012-04-03 22:29:52 <sipa> without -recovery, that build is just identical to 0.6.0
1425 2012-04-03 22:30:07 <sipa> (should be, it's hardly tested, but you should have a wallet backup anyway)
1426 2012-04-03 22:30:42 <brokenwallet> yeah dealing with this i have like 15 backups now in case i accidently overwrite something playing with all of these wallets
1427 2012-04-03 22:31:42 <brokenwallet> transaction creation failed
1428 2012-04-03 22:32:25 <sipa> ok, so it is trying to use a key that has been removed
1429 2012-04-03 22:32:49 <sipa> it's a very hacky patch that does not prevent the coin mechnanism from choosing those coins, or update the balance
1430 2012-04-03 22:32:54 <brokenwallet> yeah could be the wrong pass though i guess, but i figured it was the right one because the current stable release only crashes with that one pass
1431 2012-04-03 22:32:55 <sipa> i'll write a better patch later
1432 2012-04-03 22:33:15 <brokenwallet> is that assumption correct?
1433 2012-04-03 22:33:32 <sipa> it sounds very reasonable
1434 2012-04-03 22:34:34 Z0rZ0rZ0r1 has joined
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1436 2012-04-03 22:34:35 Z0rZ0rZ0r1 is now known as Z0rZ0rZ0r
1437 2012-04-03 22:35:05 <brokenwallet> k thanks for the help i'll play with it more a little later and let you know how it goes
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1440 2012-04-03 22:35:29 <gmaxwell> In every one of these crashing cases it appears that there is some ambiguity about it being the right passphrase.
1441 2012-04-03 22:35:50 <gmaxwell> I really suspect that some wrong passphrases decrypt to something that causes the crash... but I can't see how in the code.
1442 2012-04-03 22:35:54 <brokenwallet> gmaxwell probably because the precondition is a lot of password attempts
1443 2012-04-03 22:36:11 <brokenwallet> meaning people arent sure in the first place
1444 2012-04-03 22:36:24 Joric_ has quit ()
1445 2012-04-03 22:36:37 <gmaxwell> Maybe plus something gui and windows specific, because I tested thousands on it early in the feature's development.
1446 2012-04-03 22:36:47 <gmaxwell> Also, your expirence strongly contradicts that theory.
1447 2012-04-03 22:37:01 <gmaxwell> You have a backup from before the issue. You try that password once. It crashes.
1448 2012-04-03 22:37:59 <graingert> gmaxwell: it might be handy to store a checksum inside the encrypted data
1449 2012-04-03 22:38:23 <graingert> I'm unsure of the security implications of that
1450 2012-04-03 22:38:32 <gmaxwell> We effectively do (on accident in fact!)
1451 2012-04-03 22:38:48 <graingert> also I can't seem to create keys without unlocking the wallet
1452 2012-04-03 22:38:57 <graingert> I thought it used public key crypto to store keys
1453 2012-04-03 22:39:14 <graingert> so I should be able to add keys, but not read them once added
1454 2012-04-03 22:39:55 <brokenwallet> well if i dont make any progress i'll just send you guys the wallet to help development
1455 2012-04-03 22:39:56 <graingert> also I have a cache of 100 keys, presuambly the public keys of those are avaiable to the client - so surely I should be able to display those
1456 2012-04-03 22:39:59 <graingert> gmaxwell: ^
1457 2012-04-03 22:40:33 <graingert> by "create" I obviously mean fetch from keyqueue/pool and add new one to keyqueue/pool
1458 2012-04-03 22:42:07 <sipa> graingert: it is using symmetric encryption for the wallet
1459 2012-04-03 22:42:11 <graingert> damn
1460 2012-04-03 22:42:17 <sipa> so no, you can't add keys while being unlocked
1461 2012-04-03 22:42:24 <gmaxwell> Quite intentionally.
1462 2012-04-03 22:42:24 <graingert> well I should be able to fetch the pooled keys
1463 2012-04-03 22:42:34 <sipa> the pubkeys of the pool keys, yes
1464 2012-04-03 22:42:36 <gmaxwell> But you can fetch from the pool, so long as itns not empty.
1465 2012-04-03 22:42:46 <graingert> why does the interface not support this
1466 2012-04-03 22:42:47 stalled has joined
1467 2012-04-03 22:42:49 <graingert> gui*
1468 2012-04-03 22:43:01 <graingert> and why is it intentional?
1469 2012-04-03 22:43:24 <graingert> that I cannot create new keys without unlocking the wallet
1470 2012-04-03 22:43:26 eoss has joined
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1473 2012-04-03 22:43:34 <sipa> so someone can't add his own keys to your keypool
1474 2012-04-03 22:43:40 <graingert> good point
1475 2012-04-03 22:43:42 <sipa> if he has write access to your wallet
1476 2012-04-03 22:43:52 kreal- has joined
1477 2012-04-03 22:44:00 <gmaxwell> 15:41 < graingert> why does the interface not support this
1478 2012-04-03 22:44:01 <gmaxwell> ?
1479 2012-04-03 22:44:09 <gmaxwell> Why does it not support what?
1480 2012-04-03 22:44:17 <graingert> the gui doesn't support "creating" new keys when the wallet is locked
1481 2012-04-03 22:44:33 <graingert> it would then have to "top up" the keypool once unlocked
1482 2012-04-03 22:44:53 stalled has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1484 2012-04-03 22:45:40 <sipa> it cannot?
1485 2012-04-03 22:45:47 <graingert> last time I tried
1486 2012-04-03 22:46:18 <sipa> brokenwallet: i'm doing a new build
1487 2012-04-03 22:46:35 <gmaxwell> graingert: If so, thats a bug. It should only refuse if the keypool is empty (e.g. after 100 uses)
1488 2012-04-03 22:46:41 <sipa> should update your balance, and report in debug.log what is wrong with which keys
1489 2012-04-03 22:46:46 <graingert> well trying again
1490 2012-04-03 22:47:14 <graingert> gmaxwell: yep
1491 2012-04-03 22:47:21 <graingert> gmaxwell: bug
1492 2012-04-03 22:47:24 <graingert> gmaxwell: you try it
1493 2012-04-03 22:47:50 <graingert> maybe it won't let me add labels
1494 2012-04-03 22:47:55 <sipa> feel free to report it
1495 2012-04-03 22:48:27 <graingert> do you think it would prevent me from using it because I add a label?
1496 2012-04-03 22:48:30 <graingert> sipa: ^
1497 2012-04-03 22:48:41 <graingert> because it probably aught to
1498 2012-04-03 22:48:48 <sipa> no
1499 2012-04-03 22:49:20 <sipa> that should not be it - only the private keys are encrypted, so you should be able to get a new address out of the keypool and give it a label without unlocking
1500 2012-04-03 22:49:37 <graingert> can an attacker re-label addresses?
1501 2012-04-03 22:49:46 <graingert> do you think we should be signing each record?
1502 2012-04-03 22:50:33 <sipa> wallet encryption basically only protects against stealing of funds
1503 2012-04-03 22:50:51 <graingert> sipa: but it disallowes adding keys?
1504 2012-04-03 22:51:01 <graingert> bit it allows changing labels
1505 2012-04-03 22:51:06 <graingert> but*
1506 2012-04-03 22:51:09 <graingert> ie to other people
1507 2012-04-03 22:51:23 <graingert> what if I have a subscription, and someone changes the label of that key?
1508 2012-04-03 22:51:37 <sipa> good point
1509 2012-04-03 22:51:43 <graingert> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1031
1510 2012-04-03 22:51:47 <graingert> sipa: hax
1511 2012-04-03 22:51:54 <sipa> but solving that would require using assymetric encryption for the wallet
1512 2012-04-03 22:51:55 <graingert> sipa: it would be better to sign all records
1513 2012-04-03 22:51:59 <gmaxwell> Adding keys == stealing funds.
1514 2012-04-03 22:52:12 <gmaxwell> If I replace your keypool then your change will start going to addresses I control.
1515 2012-04-03 22:52:38 <graingert> good point, but I'll also have the privkeys
1516 2012-04-03 22:52:42 <gmaxwell> That is the fundimental reason for not enabling people without the passphrase to add keys.
1517 2012-04-03 22:52:59 <graingert> okay
1518 2012-04-03 22:53:13 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: graingert opened issue 1031 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1031>
1519 2012-04-03 22:53:15 <gmaxwell> graingert: so? You won't know you're compromise. I wait until enough of your funds end up in addresses I control and I steal it all in a single transaction.
1520 2012-04-03 22:53:26 <graingert> hmm
1521 2012-04-03 22:53:39 <gmaxwell> er. compromised.
1522 2012-04-03 22:53:41 <graingert> fair enough
1523 2012-04-03 22:53:45 <graingert> how about the label hack
1524 2012-04-03 22:53:56 <gmaxwell> I don't see how changing labels allows stealing funds.
1525 2012-04-03 22:54:07 <graingert> sipa: can you explain?
1526 2012-04-03 22:54:36 <gmaxwell> oh the address book.
1527 2012-04-03 22:54:46 <gmaxwell> Sorry— GUI only feature, I thought you were talking about accounts.
1528 2012-04-03 22:55:08 <graingert> I pay a monthly payment to "Boris". I have a key called "Boris" that I send a monthly payment to
1529 2012-04-03 22:55:10 <gmaxwell> Indeed, the address book should be secured against modification too.
1530 2012-04-03 22:55:26 <gmaxwell> (though— yuck— reusing keys stinks)
1531 2012-04-03 22:55:27 <graingert> "Evelyn" changes "Boris" to point to her key
1532 2012-04-03 22:56:18 <sipa> yeah, the address book should contain deterministic keychains at most ;)
1533 2012-04-03 22:56:24 <sipa> public ones, though
1534 2012-04-03 22:56:40 <graingert> Boris provides me with 12 keys. I label them "Boris0, Boris1, ..., Boris11"
1535 2012-04-03 22:56:55 <graingert> Evelyn, blah de blah evil
1536 2012-04-03 22:57:16 <graingert> can someone write it up, I'm off to bed
1537 2012-04-03 22:57:27 <graingert> sipa: :3
1538 2012-04-03 22:57:55 <gmaxwell> graingert: I understood a half dozen messages back.
1539 2012-04-03 22:58:18 <graingert> you said ew re-using addresses
1540 2012-04-03 22:58:24 <graingert> it's a problem even if you don't
1541 2012-04-03 22:58:44 <graingert> also a feature could be labelling a set of keys
1542 2012-04-03 22:58:54 <graingert> to enable monthly payments
1543 2012-04-03 22:58:55 <gmaxwell> I was making an aside comment: the behavior you were describing, but it's a tangent.
1544 2012-04-03 22:59:17 <graingert> an ordered set*
1545 2012-04-03 22:59:27 <gmaxwell> graingert: Public keychains would serve that purpose far better and more realistically.
1546 2012-04-03 22:59:56 <graingert> I don't know what those are. But I'm off to bed :(
1547 2012-04-03 23:00:01 <graingert> will google first thing tomorrow
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1555 2012-04-03 23:18:48 <sipa> brokenwallet: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/builds/0.6.0-1-g694cc14/
1556 2012-04-03 23:19:26 <sipa> run that with -recovery, and it should tell you in the debug output which keys were removed because of which reason, and it should update the balance
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1558 2012-04-03 23:23:31 <luke-jr> sipa: hope that dumps the priv key too? :P
1559 2012-04-03 23:24:03 <luke-jr> (ideally to another append-only file)
1560 2012-04-03 23:24:30 <sipa> luke-jr: no, it encrypts it with my public key, and then mails it ;)
1561 2012-04-03 23:24:37 <luke-jr> XD
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