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9 2012-04-06 00:59:24 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened issue 1049 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1049>
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23 2012-04-06 02:07:55 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: graingert opened issue 1050 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1050>
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25 2012-04-06 02:10:25 <graingert> luke-jr: simple pull https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1051
26 2012-04-06 02:11:05 <luke-jr> graingert: sorry, I only pull things someone else has already pulled.
27 2012-04-06 02:11:22 <graingert> ah who is the pull myster?
28 2012-04-06 02:11:54 <luke-jr> sipa, gmaxwell, gavin, jgarzik
29 2012-04-06 02:12:14 <graingert> awesome
30 2012-04-06 02:12:18 <luke-jr> I only do the stable branches, and I have a policy of only pulling fixes already in master
31 2012-04-06 02:12:53 <graingert> has sign message been backporteD?
32 2012-04-06 02:13:24 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: graingert opened pull request 1051 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1051>
33 2012-04-06 02:14:07 <luke-jr> graingert: signmessage was introduced to Bitcoin-Qt in 0.6.0
34 2012-04-06 02:14:15 <graingert> yes
35 2012-04-06 02:14:32 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
36 2012-04-06 02:14:36 <graingert> I presume you only backport fixes to stable
37 2012-04-06 02:14:54 <graingert> I guess if you backported features - it would just be dev >.>
38 2012-04-06 02:15:02 <luke-jr> right, just fixes
39 2012-04-06 02:15:06 <graingert> It's too early in the AM
40 2012-04-06 02:15:08 <luke-jr> and mandatory protocol changes
41 2012-04-06 02:15:14 <luke-jr> ie, BIP 30 and 16
42 2012-04-06 02:15:31 <graingert> I could practically feel prickle when you said that
43 2012-04-06 02:15:40 <luke-jr> ?
44 2012-04-06 02:15:43 <graingert> I could practically feel you *prickle when you said that
45 2012-04-06 02:16:06 <luke-jr> â¦
46 2012-04-06 02:16:12 <luke-jr> doesn't make any more sense :P
47 2012-04-06 02:16:16 <graingert> oh well
48 2012-04-06 02:16:23 <graingert> I was never any good at pointers
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52 2012-04-06 02:22:16 <gmaxwell> graingert: pulled.
53 2012-04-06 02:22:20 <graingert> woo
54 2012-04-06 02:22:57 <graingert> should probably have hijacked the example address...
55 2012-04-06 02:23:07 <graingert> oh well
56 2012-04-06 02:23:52 <gmaxwell> I wouldn't have pulled that. :)
57 2012-04-06 02:24:05 <gmaxwell> (well not without asking about it first.)
58 2012-04-06 02:24:17 <graingert> is there official policy of what the example addresses are?
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60 2012-04-06 02:26:12 <luke-jr> graingert: pulled
61 2012-04-06 02:26:14 <graingert> hang on
62 2012-04-06 02:26:19 <graingert> why is http://blockchain.info/tx-index/3618498/4005d6bea3a93fb72f006d23e2685b85069d270cb57d15f0c057ef2d5e3f78d2
63 2012-04-06 02:26:21 <graingert> confirmed?
64 2012-04-06 02:26:50 <luke-jr> graingert: in some orphan chain
65 2012-04-06 02:26:59 <graingert> 9 blocks deep?
66 2012-04-06 02:27:04 <luke-jr> probably
67 2012-04-06 02:27:07 <graingert> wat
68 2012-04-06 02:27:18 <graingert> is that a 9 block fork?
69 2012-04-06 02:28:00 <luke-jr> dunno
70 2012-04-06 02:28:25 <graingert> gmaxwell: can you shed any light?
71 2012-04-06 02:28:31 <graingert> I thought this would never hit 9 blocks?
72 2012-04-06 02:28:37 <gmaxwell> graingert: its an invalid address, used uniformly in the software I dunno where it comes from .. its like the sha1 of "bitcoin" or something I think.
73 2012-04-06 02:28:53 <graingert> oh
74 2012-04-06 02:28:57 <forsetifox> Longest fork has been like 5 blocks.
75 2012-04-06 02:28:58 <graingert> fair enough
76 2012-04-06 02:29:02 <gmaxwell> The confirmation number on that txn has showed all kinds of random values.
77 2012-04-06 02:29:06 <graingert> ah
78 2012-04-06 02:29:10 <graingert> okay
79 2012-04-06 02:29:20 <graingert> blockchain.info is being mad
80 2012-04-06 02:29:41 <gmaxwell> I'm going to pay off the blockchain.info people to put even more crazy stuff in the output, since y'all will apparently believe anything it says.
81 2012-04-06 02:29:45 <gmaxwell> :)
82 2012-04-06 02:29:54 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: we should probably make the example invalid or some real donation address IMO
83 2012-04-06 02:30:14 <graingert> make it the signing address for alerts
84 2012-04-06 02:30:32 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: it _is_ invalid.
85 2012-04-06 02:30:38 <graingert> as that's the "official" satoshi client address
86 2012-04-06 02:30:41 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: oh, ok
87 2012-04-06 02:30:42 <gmaxwell> $ ~/src/bitcoin/src/bitcoind validateaddress 1NS17iag9jJgTHD1VXjvLCEnZuQ3rJDE9L
88 2012-04-06 02:30:46 <gmaxwell> { "isvalid" : false
89 2012-04-06 02:30:48 <gmaxwell> }
90 2012-04-06 02:34:26 <gmaxwell> The longest fork I can find recently is 4, 173928-173931
91 2012-04-06 02:34:44 <graingert> how do you locate forks?
92 2012-04-06 02:35:10 <gmaxwell> They're in the kitchen, to the right of the sink.
93 2012-04-06 02:35:39 <graingert> no that's where they are
94 2012-04-06 02:35:42 <graingert> how do you locate them
95 2012-04-06 02:35:47 <gmaxwell> Metaldetector.
96 2012-04-06 02:36:01 <graingert> yes but that also detects pans
97 2012-04-06 02:36:03 <gmaxwell> (looking at both my logs, and at blockchain.info)
98 2012-04-06 02:36:28 <graingert> also it doesn't really locate, it detects
99 2012-04-06 02:37:09 <forsetifox> http://blockexplorer.com/q/reorglog
100 2012-04-06 02:37:37 <gmaxwell> graingert: you use an simple mark and sweep algorithim with the metal detector in the inner loop. :)
101 2012-04-06 02:37:56 <graingert> is there an OS blockexplorer yet?
102 2012-04-06 02:37:58 <forsetifox> Snarky devs. =P
103 2012-04-06 02:38:03 <gmaxwell> graingert: then a secondary test to classify pans vs forks vs gold nuggets
104 2012-04-06 02:38:24 <graingert> what about plastic forks?
105 2012-04-06 02:38:24 <gmaxwell> http://blockchain.info/orphaned-blocks?offset=50 is also handy
106 2012-04-06 02:38:34 <gmaxwell> graingert: imposters
107 2012-04-06 02:38:42 <gmaxwell> next you'll be asking about sporksâ¦
108 2012-04-06 02:38:50 <graingert> good point
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112 2012-04-06 02:40:10 <graingert> actually that's well defined: https://imgur.com/Qgc3K
113 2012-04-06 02:40:14 <graingert> a spork is a fork
114 2012-04-06 02:40:28 <graingert> and a SPALYD instanceof fork also
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124 2012-04-06 03:23:15 <finway> Seems mtgox slows down tx confirmation, because of poison BIP16 tx.
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131 2012-04-06 03:57:21 <gmaxwell> finway: Good morning, chicken little.
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186 2012-04-06 07:29:31 <paulo_> Hello
187 2012-04-06 07:29:51 <blinkbat> hji
188 2012-04-06 07:29:53 <blinkbat> hi
189 2012-04-06 07:30:01 forsetifox has quit (Quit: Page closed)
190 2012-04-06 07:30:40 <paulo_> was supposed to ask if DOSing the network was possible, just realized it's not
191 2012-04-06 07:30:48 <paulo_> oh wait
192 2012-04-06 07:31:07 <paulo_> what if I keep sending payments to myself? back and forth?
193 2012-04-06 07:31:12 <_W_> sure it's possible - it's just very big and distributed
194 2012-04-06 07:31:24 <paulo_> wouldn't that flood the network?
195 2012-04-06 07:31:36 <_W_> paulo_, there are lots of anti-spam features - once your transactions gets a low enough priority, and doesn't include a fee, they will not be relayed
196 2012-04-06 07:31:59 <_W_> I'm sure the wiki has something
197 2012-04-06 07:33:38 <_W_> (or not be relayed fast, not sure exactly how it works)
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234 2012-04-06 10:03:44 <pjorrit> you have more options of you mine your own transactions though
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253 2012-04-06 12:19:43 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin-Test build #245: FAILURE in 25 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin-Test/245/
254 2012-04-06 12:19:43 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: Locking system overhaul, add condition variables
255 2012-04-06 12:19:44 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: Condition variable for outbound connection slots
256 2012-04-06 12:20:37 <sipa> oh my
257 2012-04-06 12:20:57 <kinlo> you didn't just break it did you :p
258 2012-04-06 12:21:51 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
259 2012-04-06 12:22:55 <sipa> just an over-eager unit test
260 2012-04-06 12:29:17 <da2ce7> sipa: how is you BIP comming along?
261 2012-04-06 12:30:17 <sipa> da2ce7: the HD Cloud Enterprise wallets?
262 2012-04-06 12:30:35 <sipa> da2ce7: or BIP30?
263 2012-04-06 12:30:51 <da2ce7> :) the Buzzword HD Bitcoin "Gold Standard 2.0" Wallets?
264 2012-04-06 12:31:09 <sipa> yeah, i should finish it and get it implemented
265 2012-04-06 12:31:31 <da2ce7> he he
266 2012-04-06 12:31:35 copumpkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
267 2012-04-06 12:32:02 <da2ce7> sipa: http://torrentfreak.com/the-fight-against-copyright-enforcement-the-fight-for-civil-liberties-are-the-same-120404/ <- may like this article.
268 2012-04-06 12:36:00 <sipa> da2ce7: have you read lawrence lessig's "free culture" ?
269 2012-04-06 12:36:18 JRWR has joined
270 2012-04-06 12:36:20 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: please ping me whenever you're ready for rc3
271 2012-04-06 12:36:28 <da2ce7> not yet.
272 2012-04-06 12:37:07 cande has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
273 2012-04-06 12:43:36 <TD> hmm
274 2012-04-06 12:45:38 PK has quit ()
275 2012-04-06 12:47:17 <TD> ah, we kicked CIA out of bitcoin-dev
276 2012-04-06 12:47:26 copumpkin has joined
277 2012-04-06 12:47:27 <TD> i was just wondering why my commit notifications broke
278 2012-04-06 12:47:30 <TD> but i guess they just moved
279 2012-04-06 12:48:31 <luke-jr> TD: #bticoin-commits
280 2012-04-06 12:48:40 <TD> yes, isaw
281 2012-04-06 12:49:50 <TuxBlackEdo> damn
282 2012-04-06 12:49:57 <TuxBlackEdo> you guys are still up
283 2012-04-06 12:50:31 <TuxBlackEdo> yo quieres dormir
284 2012-04-06 12:50:33 <coingenuity> no u
285 2012-04-06 12:50:50 <coingenuity> yo tambien TuxBlackEdo
286 2012-04-06 12:51:12 <TuxBlackEdo> pero yo quiero veo pauly d project
287 2012-04-06 12:51:33 <coingenuity> XD
288 2012-04-06 12:51:48 <coingenuity> i have no idea bro
289 2012-04-06 12:52:01 <coingenuity> i will watch "swamp people" instead :P
290 2012-04-06 12:52:04 <TuxBlackEdo> hehe
291 2012-04-06 12:52:06 <TuxBlackEdo> i almost never talk in here
292 2012-04-06 12:52:17 <TuxBlackEdo> because i always think theres something important going on
293 2012-04-06 12:52:36 <coingenuity> there usually is, i just lurk mainly ;)
294 2012-04-06 12:52:56 <TuxBlackEdo> coingenuity, have you read gavin's blog about the vulnurability they recently fixed?
295 2012-04-06 12:52:59 <coingenuity> that, and these channel logs encourage less off-topic discussion :)
296 2012-04-06 12:53:12 <coingenuity> nope, i have not
297 2012-04-06 12:53:40 <TuxBlackEdo> good read: http://gavintech.blogspot.com/ <- that page, you dont have to click anything
298 2012-04-06 12:54:04 <coingenuity> lmfao
299 2012-04-06 12:54:07 <coingenuity> you know me well
300 2012-04-06 12:55:15 <TuxBlackEdo> also read the one about the bitcoin faucet getting hacked
301 2012-04-06 12:55:34 <TuxBlackEdo> he had his stuff hosted with linode as well
302 2012-04-06 12:55:35 <TuxBlackEdo> anyways
303 2012-04-06 12:55:40 Turingi has joined
304 2012-04-06 12:55:45 <TuxBlackEdo> off to watch some tv shows before passing out
305 2012-04-06 12:55:49 <TuxBlackEdo> later coingenuity
306 2012-04-06 12:55:50 <sipa> still up? it's 3pm here...
307 2012-04-06 12:56:02 <coingenuity> kk nn TuxBlackEdo
308 2012-04-06 12:56:03 <TuxBlackEdo> it's 6am here
309 2012-04-06 12:56:09 <TuxBlackEdo> lates
310 2012-04-06 12:56:14 <coingenuity> yer, imma zz im a minute too
311 2012-04-06 12:56:16 <coingenuity> paes
312 2012-04-06 12:56:19 <TuxBlackEdo> paes
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324 2012-04-06 13:28:30 <etotheipi_> anyone have a link to Gavin's multi-sig proposal?
325 2012-04-06 13:30:24 <luke-jr> BIP 12?
326 2012-04-06 13:30:42 <etotheipi_> luke-jr, no. gavin had put up a multi-sig escrow proposal
327 2012-04-06 13:31:09 Blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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331 2012-04-06 13:31:30 <etotheipi_> it was describing a way that two parties could execute an online purchase using multi-sig escrow
332 2012-04-06 13:35:44 JRWR has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
333 2012-04-06 13:36:44 JRWR has joined
334 2012-04-06 13:38:24 <riush_> https://gist.github.com/830ca16758fb9ad496d7 ?
335 2012-04-06 13:43:02 Diablo-D3 has joined
336 2012-04-06 13:46:00 tower has quit (Quit: | ReactOS - The FOSS alternative to MS Windows! | http://www.reactos.org/ | join #ReactOS |)
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342 2012-04-06 13:59:07 <etotheipi_> ahhh thanks riush!
343 2012-04-06 13:59:27 user_ has joined
344 2012-04-06 13:59:46 <etotheipi_> why doesn't that show up on Gavin's gist list?
345 2012-04-06 14:00:33 <riush_> seems to be a 'private' gist
346 2012-04-06 14:13:13 DanielChen has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
347 2012-04-06 14:15:58 * luke-jr organizes his files webroot
348 2012-04-06 14:16:13 <luke-jr> yay for mod_rewrite providing transparent URI-compatibility
349 2012-04-06 14:17:51 <freewil> cant tell if thats sarcasm or not
350 2012-04-06 14:18:09 <freewil> not sure what transparent URI-compatibility means
351 2012-04-06 14:19:21 copumpkin has joined
352 2012-04-06 14:21:14 minimoose has joined
353 2012-04-06 14:21:39 <luke-jr> freewil: eg http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/0.3.22-eligius_sendonly.patch
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357 2012-04-06 14:37:56 <freewil> luke-jr, what does that have to do with mod_rewrite
358 2012-04-06 14:43:33 tower has joined
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363 2012-04-06 14:53:48 <luke-jr> freewil: that link is obsolete. notice you're redirected :P
364 2012-04-06 14:54:17 <freewil> oh nice
365 2012-04-06 14:54:33 <freewil> i didnt even notice
366 2012-04-06 14:54:38 <freewil> thats how transparent it is
367 2012-04-06 14:55:30 <luke-jr> :p
368 2012-04-06 15:08:07 Blitzboom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
369 2012-04-06 15:08:47 <paulo_> why should I wait for confirmation?
370 2012-04-06 15:09:17 <luke-jr> paulo_: if you don't mind the risk of someone scamming you, don't.
371 2012-04-06 15:09:52 <luke-jr> paulo_: any fewer than 6 confirmations is subject to reversal (exponentially harder to do)
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376 2012-04-06 15:14:40 <paulo_> transactions with fees are prioritized, right?
377 2012-04-06 15:14:55 lou_ has joined
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379 2012-04-06 15:17:31 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
380 2012-04-06 15:18:57 <luke-jr> paulo_: depends on the fee
381 2012-04-06 15:22:07 Clipse has joined
382 2012-04-06 15:24:04 dr_win has joined
383 2012-04-06 15:26:24 <helo> it's more like transactions without insufficient fees may be ignored
384 2012-04-06 15:26:33 <helo> err with insufficient
385 2012-04-06 15:27:01 <helo> once you get over the threshold of "sufficient" fees, a higher fee is unlikely to help
386 2012-04-06 15:27:47 user_ has joined
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390 2012-04-06 15:38:51 <luke-jr> helo: except there are multiple thesholds
391 2012-04-06 15:40:20 <helo> i guess that's true... is there any way to know what the different thresholds are?
392 2012-04-06 15:40:52 <luke-jr> Eligius charges 4096 Satoshi per 512 bytes
393 2012-04-06 15:41:15 <luke-jr> stock bitcoind charges 50000 Satoshi per 1000 bytes, but has a "free area" for lower fees
394 2012-04-06 15:41:49 <luke-jr> older bitcoind charges 1000000 Satoshi per 1000 bytes, but has a free area
395 2012-04-06 15:42:09 <luke-jr> Deepbit charges 1000000 Satoshi per 1000 bytes, but has a larger-than-usual free area
396 2012-04-06 15:42:22 traviscj has joined
397 2012-04-06 15:42:37 <helo> so as long as the free area is not full, any transaction may be accepted there?
398 2012-04-06 15:43:56 <helo> does the free area often fill up?
399 2012-04-06 15:46:13 <luke-jr> Deepbit likes to spam, so yes
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415 2012-04-06 16:26:34 <Blitzboom> devs, what have you done http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-ever.png
416 2012-04-06 16:28:34 <TD> what's the issue?
417 2012-04-06 16:28:53 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Quitte)
418 2012-04-06 16:29:18 <Blitzboom> not really anything, i just hope it wonât drop too much
419 2012-04-06 16:29:47 <sipa> it won't
420 2012-04-06 16:30:12 bobke has joined
421 2012-04-06 16:30:15 <luke-jr> TD: BIP 16
422 2012-04-06 16:31:10 Rebroad has joined
423 2012-04-06 16:31:21 <TD> i know
424 2012-04-06 16:31:30 <TD> i meant, the recent drop doesn't look like anything we haven't seen before
425 2012-04-06 16:31:33 <TD> so what's the issue?
426 2012-04-06 16:32:00 <Rebroad> hi... I've found the cause of the blockchain taking weeks to download... even in version 6.0.0... I can raise an issue for it..
427 2012-04-06 16:32:19 <terry> rg: To be fair, it's been ~5 months into Litecoin's inception, and 10,000 litecoins are already worth more than several pizzas, while 10,000 bitcoins bought only two pizzas over one year into Bitcoin.
428 2012-04-06 16:32:20 <Rebroad> it's due to the way it handles recv error 10054
429 2012-04-06 16:32:22 <sipa> weeks....?
430 2012-04-06 16:32:26 <Rebroad> yes, weeks
431 2012-04-06 16:32:33 <terry> Goes to show just how much ahead of Bitcoin's growth curve Litecoin is.
432 2012-04-06 16:32:35 <sipa> what is error 10054?
433 2012-04-06 16:32:42 <Rebroad> you might remember me mentioning it some weeks ago
434 2012-04-06 16:32:50 <Rebroad> "socket recv error 10054"
435 2012-04-06 16:33:02 <terry> Wrong channel, sorry.
436 2012-04-06 16:33:05 <Rebroad> it's due to my ISP's bandwidth throttling
437 2012-04-06 16:33:11 <sipa> Rebroad: connection reset by peer
438 2012-04-06 16:33:18 <sipa> what wrong with how it's handled?
439 2012-04-06 16:33:20 <Rebroad> and the client doesn't notice how to deal with it
440 2012-04-06 16:33:31 <Rebroad> well, it does the getdata for blocks
441 2012-04-06 16:33:49 <Rebroad> and then while it's receiving them, the connection is RSTed... and the node doesn't re-getdata it
442 2012-04-06 16:34:02 <sipa> of course not, the connection is gone
443 2012-04-06 16:34:19 <TD> i think he means
444 2012-04-06 16:34:22 <TD> it doesn't getdata from any peer
445 2012-04-06 16:34:29 <TD> at least not until the next block
446 2012-04-06 16:34:38 <TD> Rebroad: why do you see so many more RSTs than normal? are you in china or something?
447 2012-04-06 16:34:39 <sipa> actually, i think it is, but not immediately
448 2012-04-06 16:34:39 <Rebroad> TD, correct
449 2012-04-06 16:34:47 <sipa> ah right, yes, there are several improvements possible
450 2012-04-06 16:34:56 <sipa> but i hope we can combine them with initial headers-only mode
451 2012-04-06 16:34:56 <Rebroad> TD, it's becoming more standard with UK ISPs these days
452 2012-04-06 16:35:24 <sipa> i really doubt your ISP has anything to do with it
453 2012-04-06 16:35:37 <TD> Rebroad: "more standard" ?
454 2012-04-06 16:35:38 <Rebroad> I thinnk the node should re-getdata it when the connection ends before it got what it asked for
455 2012-04-06 16:35:51 <TD> Rebroad: if your ISP is frequently resetting connections for no reason that's a really serious issue with that ISP
456 2012-04-06 16:35:56 <TD> have you talked to them about that?
457 2012-04-06 16:35:58 <Rebroad> sipa, I'm pretty sure it's my ISP.. it's why I often keep disconnecting from IRC also
458 2012-04-06 16:36:06 <TD> it may also be your wifi router, etc
459 2012-04-06 16:36:15 <TD> Rebroad: you could try MultiBit
460 2012-04-06 16:36:18 <Rebroad> TD, yes.. my bundle includes webbrowsing only, so anything else they try to block
461 2012-04-06 16:36:22 <TD> Rebroad: bitcoinj has some handling for this type of thing
462 2012-04-06 16:36:31 <helo> what isp?
463 2012-04-06 16:36:36 <Rebroad> T-Mobile
464 2012-04-06 16:36:37 <TD> Rebroad: oh wow. "web browsing only" internet? then there's no bug with bitcoin
465 2012-04-06 16:36:43 <TD> Rebroad: just get a better ISP. problem solved.
466 2012-04-06 16:36:48 <Rebroad> TD... not a bug per se..
467 2012-04-06 16:36:57 <helo> can you set up a ssh tunnel over port 80?
468 2012-04-06 16:36:58 <Rebroad> but a non-consideration
469 2012-04-06 16:37:04 <Rebroad> ssh is also RSTed
470 2012-04-06 16:37:13 <Rebroad> ah.. port 80
471 2012-04-06 16:37:18 <Rebroad> possibly...
472 2012-04-06 16:37:34 <luke-jr> sipa: can you pull #987 plz? :p
473 2012-04-06 16:37:45 <Rebroad> but I think it would be worthwhile having the node re-get for whatever reason when the block download terminates prematurely
474 2012-04-06 16:38:10 <helo> they may rst everything, as http doesn't generally require persistent connections for long periods of time
475 2012-04-06 16:38:21 <sipa> luke-jr: meh
476 2012-04-06 16:38:40 <TD> Rebroad: sure. like i said, some clients do that already.
477 2012-04-06 16:38:46 <TD> Rebroad: but it doesn't sound like a critical issue
478 2012-04-06 16:39:02 <TD> Rebroad: basically you're violating the ToS on your internet connection and then wondering why you have a poor experience. bitcoin isn't intended to work in such circumstances.
479 2012-04-06 16:40:02 <helo> Rebroad: download the blockchain from sourceforge over http
480 2012-04-06 16:40:06 <gmaxwell> Rebroad: can you update that patch as sipa requested (rebase/collapse to one commit)
481 2012-04-06 16:40:34 <Rebroad> gmaxwell, I noticed sipa's comment. Unfortately I'm not quite familiar with git enough to remember how to :-s
482 2012-04-06 16:40:44 <Rebroad> I'm trying to get up to speed on git more...
483 2012-04-06 16:40:45 <luke-jr> Rebroad: "web browsing only" isn't internet service.
484 2012-04-06 16:41:23 <sipa> Rebroad: checkout the branch with those patches in
485 2012-04-06 16:41:45 <Rebroad> well.. luke-jr, I think T-Mobiles definition of internet is rather wonky... they talk about web browsing being different to "downloadng"
486 2012-04-06 16:42:54 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: what's the status of #1023?
487 2012-04-06 16:43:02 <luke-jr> Rebroad: false advertising is illegal
488 2012-04-06 16:43:04 <Rebroad> I suspect that this RST thing can affect the nodes I connect to just as much though, e.g. when I'm sending blocks
489 2012-04-06 16:43:05 <gmaxwell> Rebroad: okay, well after you figure it out and do that, I'll test your commit and pull it. If you can't figure it out, let me know and I'll give you a hand. (though at worse you could just reset back and redo the diff)
490 2012-04-06 16:43:34 <TD> Rebroad: what is the issue with you just buying a regular full internet connection, exactly?
491 2012-04-06 16:43:36 <gmaxwell> Rebroad: if you run bitcoin over tor or stunnel you should be fine. :(
492 2012-04-06 16:43:57 <Rebroad> TD, money
493 2012-04-06 16:44:39 <TD> are the savings really that big? i mean, slow internet isn't _that_ expensive.
494 2012-04-06 16:44:50 <TD> unless you live in the middle of nowhere and are using a mobile connection i guess
495 2012-04-06 16:44:55 <Rebroad> TD - I'm moving house soon, and the contracts are min 18months usually
496 2012-04-06 16:45:49 <etotheipi_> TD: I have had a terrible experience with "slow internet"
497 2012-04-06 16:46:04 <etotheipi_> both comcast and verizon refuse to give me *anything* less than $70/mo
498 2012-04-06 16:46:20 <etotheipi_> I asked for no phone, no cable, and the literally the slowest internet they had that wasn't dialup
499 2012-04-06 16:46:28 <etotheipi_> they said they had a promotion for $65
500 2012-04-06 16:47:12 <etotheipi_> and then continued to push their internet+cable+phone option for like $75/mo
501 2012-04-06 16:50:10 <etotheipi_> so my opinion is that there is no "cheap" internet option
502 2012-04-06 16:51:43 <blinkbat> move to where theres cheaper broadband?
503 2012-04-06 16:52:19 <etotheipi_> I live in a pretty "dense" area... I think it's just anti-competitiveness
504 2012-04-06 16:55:21 <luke-jr> sipa: oops, sorry, I forgot to push my rebased branchâ¦
505 2012-04-06 16:55:42 <etotheipi_> has there really only been 2 blocks on the testnet in the last week?
506 2012-04-06 16:55:42 <luke-jr> should merge cleanly now XD
507 2012-04-06 16:56:38 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: nah, sounds like you're stuck on the pre-0.6 fork of testnet.
508 2012-04-06 16:56:41 Cablesaurus has joined
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511 2012-04-06 16:56:56 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell: ahhhh thanks
512 2012-04-06 16:57:21 <etotheipi_> well, my testnet wallet says it's 0.6.0.6
513 2012-04-06 16:57:25 <gmaxwell> (testnet got new rules that let blocks with min difficulty happen when there are 'long' gaps)
514 2012-04-06 16:57:35 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: right ... but all your peers might be old nodes. :(
515 2012-04-06 16:57:54 <etotheipi_> oh well, luckily I don't need to send anything...
516 2012-04-06 17:00:17 <gavinandresen> of course, we deploy the new rule and it becomes uninteresting for people to drive up testnet difficulty so the rule isn't really needed....
517 2012-04-06 17:00:56 <Rebroad> may I ask why the bitcoin amounts rewarded per block jump from 50 BTC to 25 BTC rather than decrease smoothly per block?
518 2012-04-06 17:01:18 Cablesaurus has quit (Client Quit)
519 2012-04-06 17:01:19 <Rebroad> the sudden jump may have an impact on the bitcoin market/price, etc, which might not happen were it smooth
520 2012-04-06 17:01:21 <gavinandresen> just because.
521 2012-04-06 17:01:36 ThomasV has joined
522 2012-04-06 17:01:37 <Rebroad> not so much a -dev question, given it can't be changed now...
523 2012-04-06 17:02:01 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: I have some other priorities to figure out with Armory right now, but you're beginning to sway me on the escrow thing...
524 2012-04-06 17:02:32 <Rebroad> well.. it could.. but I guess the software would need to be changed to allow both systems to co-exist....
525 2012-04-06 17:02:36 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: cool. My main concern is that lots of escrows doesn't turn into lots of "lost" coins
526 2012-04-06 17:02:56 <etotheipi_> the only thing I don't like is the non-trivial need-to-find-a-miner-and-have-him-help-me-out step
527 2012-04-06 17:03:19 <etotheipi_> but if that is an exception instead of the standard... I'd go for it
528 2012-04-06 17:03:27 <sipa> etotheipi_: the obvious solution to that is re-enabling transaction replacement
529 2012-04-06 17:03:28 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: if both parties are honest and don't hack their clients to broadcast transactions when they're not supposed to, then that step shouldn't be necessary
530 2012-04-06 17:03:45 sje has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
531 2012-04-06 17:03:49 Rebroad has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
532 2012-04-06 17:04:04 <etotheipi_> sipa: I agree with you... but do you think that escrow tx should just not happen until then?
533 2012-04-06 17:04:40 <etotheipi_> maybe I'm just impatient :)
534 2012-04-06 17:04:44 <sipa> no, escrow is useful without it, imho
535 2012-04-06 17:05:07 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: I updated the gist this morning, by the way
536 2012-04-06 17:05:14 <sipa> and even if 0.6.1 would enable transaction replacement, without incentive it would take ages for the network and especially miners to incorporate it
537 2012-04-06 17:05:17 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: yeah I already started looking at it
538 2012-04-06 17:05:27 <gmaxwell> I think it's foolish to only focus on two party escrows. Three(+) party are much easier to do well.
539 2012-04-06 17:05:50 <gavinandresen> sipa: I think the only transaction replacement rule that makes sense is "a transaction with a higher fee replaces one with a lower fee."
540 2012-04-06 17:06:10 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: that's vulnerable to double-spending attacks
541 2012-04-06 17:06:11 <gavinandresen> sipa: because any other rule miners have an incentive to break.
542 2012-04-06 17:06:13 erle- has quit (Quit: erle-)
543 2012-04-06 17:06:16 <gmaxwell> And in most cases you can find someone to act as a party to arbritrate disputes.
544 2012-04-06 17:06:21 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: doesn't change outputs.
545 2012-04-06 17:06:31 <sipa> gavinandresen: true
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549 2012-04-06 17:06:38 <gmaxwell> (or at least contrain the outputs it changes)
550 2012-04-06 17:06:40 <luke-jr> "no output changes" would be safe, but not as flexible.
551 2012-04-06 17:06:53 <luke-jr> "only increases on outputs" would be better
552 2012-04-06 17:06:59 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: you could say " only ... ha yes.
553 2012-04-06 17:07:10 <sipa> the current rule is "the same prevouts"
554 2012-04-06 17:07:16 <sipa> and higher nSequence
555 2012-04-06 17:07:17 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: btw, Armory RAM-reduction is complete: so you can now try it out pretty easily on any system http://bitcoinarmory.com/index.php/building-armory-from-source
556 2012-04-06 17:07:25 <gavinandresen> If I'm a miner, I don't care about double-spends, I want the version of the transaction with the highest fee (or highest fee per kb or whatever the right measure is)
557 2012-04-06 17:07:52 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: If you don't care about the security of the network in general, yes.
558 2012-04-06 17:07:57 <etotheipi_> err.. easiest on Linux... just make sure (on any platform) that the Satoshi client is open and sync'd
559 2012-04-06 17:08:01 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: but nodes are also relayers, and most of them don't care about the fee.
560 2012-04-06 17:08:18 <gavinandresen> I don't think nodes should relay non-final transactions at all.
561 2012-04-06 17:08:29 Joric_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
562 2012-04-06 17:08:34 <luke-jr> I'm assuming nobody knows what is final and what isn't.
563 2012-04-06 17:08:40 <sipa> TD probably has some thoughts about this?
564 2012-04-06 17:08:50 <etotheipi_> I don't think miners should just allow arbitrary replacement of tx that would otherwise make it into the next block, even with fees
565 2012-04-06 17:08:54 <luke-jr> ie, send without a fee and hope it gets in normally; if not, resend in 12 hours with a fee
566 2012-04-06 17:08:59 <gavinandresen> (I was going to go grab lunch but this is an interesting conversation....)
567 2012-04-06 17:09:06 Joric_ has joined
568 2012-04-06 17:09:13 <Diablo-D3> [12:41:47] <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: what's the status of #1023?
569 2012-04-06 17:09:17 <Diablo-D3> why are you asking me?
570 2012-04-06 17:09:25 <luke-jr> because you tab-completed Dia<tab>
571 2012-04-06 17:09:27 <luke-jr> sorry
572 2012-04-06 17:09:32 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: what you think doesn't really matter, eventually the incentives will make miners maximimze their profits
573 2012-04-06 17:09:50 <sipa> miners do have an incentive to keep the network usable
574 2012-04-06 17:09:58 <sipa> not all may realize this
575 2012-04-06 17:10:23 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: I'm concerned about the extreme case:
576 2012-04-06 17:10:31 <sipa> but if you implement any rule that only in miner's direct advantage, we'll end up with a very spammy blockchain, i'm afraid
577 2012-04-06 17:10:45 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: don't underestimate the power of default.
578 2012-04-06 17:10:46 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
579 2012-04-06 17:10:48 phma has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
580 2012-04-06 17:10:52 <etotheipi_> I send someone 10000 BTC.... it's confirmed, then I create a conflicting tx with 200 BTC fee, and greedy miners go back a couple blocks and start double-spending for me
581 2012-04-06 17:11:15 <gmaxwell> Sure someone might change the code to accept any replacement that changes fees. but it's farly unlikely at least for a while.
582 2012-04-06 17:11:17 <luke-jr> o.o
583 2012-04-06 17:11:20 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: true for now, but I expect there to be a lot more diversity in a year or three, and to see "Miner Special!" versions of the code....
584 2012-04-06 17:11:26 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: you can do way better than that.
585 2012-04-06 17:11:47 <sipa> gtg
586 2012-04-06 17:11:52 <luke-jr> etotheipi_: except a miner would need over 50% to do that
587 2012-04-06 17:11:55 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: use nlock time to make a sequence of depedant transactions which must be mined one block after another.. each giving 50 btc fee..
588 2012-04-06 17:12:08 <etotheipi_> luke-jr: not if it's the norm for miners to be greedy
589 2012-04-06 17:12:21 <etotheipi_> if most miners are following rules that take the greediest path, then ...
590 2012-04-06 17:12:42 <luke-jr> etotheipi_: after the first miner, other miners have no incentive to build on his fork
591 2012-04-06 17:13:00 <luke-jr> so that first miner has nothing to gain by trying, since he will fail
592 2012-04-06 17:13:02 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: under your logic none of them are mining right now because shooting banktellers in the head and taking their money has better short term payoffs.
593 2012-04-06 17:13:15 <etotheipi_> yeah yeah it's extreme, nm
594 2012-04-06 17:13:18 <gavinandresen> yes, nothing stops miners from behaving that way right now.
595 2012-04-06 17:13:59 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2095#comic
596 2012-04-06 17:14:06 <gavinandresen> (well, nothing except if they're a pool op and their users found out they'd soon find themselves with no hashing power)
597 2012-04-06 17:14:36 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: if the fee is high enough, they might not care :p
598 2012-04-06 17:15:08 <etotheipi_> anyways... the point was, I don't like the idea that any final-tx not in the blockchain yet will just be arbitrarily replaced by submitting a new one with a higher fee
599 2012-04-06 17:15:13 <gavinandresen> away for a while, my stomach is being noisy
600 2012-04-06 17:18:01 <etotheipi_> it would make 0-conf tx 100% useless, instead of just 90% useless
601 2012-04-06 17:20:16 phma has joined
602 2012-04-06 17:23:03 gp5st has joined
603 2012-04-06 17:24:45 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: more like 80% rather than 70% useless in my opinion.. They're still perfectly fine for people who you can go punch in the face if the rip you off.
604 2012-04-06 17:24:48 Joric has joined
605 2012-04-06 17:24:49 Joric has quit (Changing host)
606 2012-04-06 17:24:49 Joric has joined
607 2012-04-06 17:25:11 <MasterChief> hey, the wallet crypto is AES right
608 2012-04-06 17:25:29 <gmaxwell> (where 'punch in the face' is a stand-in for 'consequences they'll care about')
609 2012-04-06 17:25:44 <gmaxwell> MasterChief: Yes.
610 2012-04-06 17:25:45 Joric_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
611 2012-04-06 17:25:59 <MasterChief> is it salted
612 2012-04-06 17:26:05 <MasterChief> or is that a dumb question
613 2012-04-06 17:26:07 sgornick has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
614 2012-04-06 17:26:37 Cablesaurus has joined
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616 2012-04-06 17:26:37 Cablesaurus has joined
617 2012-04-06 17:27:44 <gmaxwell> MasterChief: It is.
618 2012-04-06 17:28:06 <gmaxwell> And strenghtened with >=25,000 rounds of iterated hashing.
619 2012-04-06 17:28:18 <gmaxwell> (usually much greater, depends on how fast your machine is)
620 2012-04-06 17:28:33 <MasterChief> what is the salt based on
621 2012-04-06 17:29:04 <helo> final-tx cannot be replaced, right?
622 2012-04-06 17:29:21 <helo> either before or after it is in the blockchain
623 2012-04-06 17:29:34 <gmaxwell> MasterChief: data stored in the file, as is always the case with salted passwords.
624 2012-04-06 17:31:59 t7 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
625 2012-04-06 17:32:39 t7 has joined
626 2012-04-06 17:34:09 <luke-jr> crap, master is broken? :/
627 2012-04-06 17:39:27 kish has joined
628 2012-04-06 17:41:46 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
629 2012-04-06 17:41:58 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell: the thing is that *anyone*, even dumb people can figure out how to swap a zero-conf tx if all they have to do is put a higher fee on it
630 2012-04-06 17:43:02 <luke-jr> 712fd182b72b0f5a1bcf843f171c29ec0a49b50f is the first bad commit
631 2012-04-06 17:43:07 <luke-jr> sipa: your fault! :P
632 2012-04-06 17:46:47 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: whats it not do? (yea.. that locking change scared me. :) )
633 2012-04-06 17:47:16 Joric_ has joined
634 2012-04-06 17:47:16 Joric_ has quit (Changing host)
635 2012-04-06 17:47:16 Joric_ has joined
636 2012-04-06 17:47:27 <gmaxwell> so, people in #bitcoin are saying that windows7 gives them a "this application is not responding, click here to punch yourself in the face (kill it even though its really working fine" during bitcoin startup.
637 2012-04-06 17:48:15 <pierre`> natural selection
638 2012-04-06 17:48:59 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
639 2012-04-06 17:49:33 gp5st has left ()
640 2012-04-06 17:50:28 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: test suite fails
641 2012-04-06 17:51:13 <luke-jr> test_bitcoin: test/util_tests.cpp:18: void util_tests::util_criticalsection::test_method(): Assertion `("break caught by CRITICAL_BLOCK!" && !fcriticalblockonce)' failed.
642 2012-04-06 17:51:14 <luke-jr> unknown location(0): fatal error in "util_criticalsection": signal: SIGABRT (application abort requested)
643 2012-04-06 17:51:42 Joric has joined
644 2012-04-06 17:52:09 Joric_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
645 2012-04-06 17:52:32 <gavinandresen> nice, unit tests doing their job...
646 2012-04-06 17:52:46 <luke-jr> ;)
647 2012-04-06 17:53:26 <luke-jr> my GNUmakefile automatically runs unit tests after every build
648 2012-04-06 17:54:35 <paulo_> what are the disadvantages if bitcoin used RSA?
649 2012-04-06 17:54:56 <luke-jr> paulo_: large signatures.
650 2012-04-06 17:55:05 <luke-jr> in terms of data-size
651 2012-04-06 17:55:58 <gmaxwell> paulo_: blockchain being something like 10x larger.
652 2012-04-06 17:56:46 _Fireball has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
653 2012-04-06 17:56:52 <gmaxwell> Also wallets being 10x larger.. also new addresses being slow to generate (though not that big a deal because that can happen in the background)
654 2012-04-06 17:57:28 _Fireball has joined
655 2012-04-06 17:57:38 * luke-jr wishes he could have used ECDSA for his PGP key
656 2012-04-06 18:02:27 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Quitte)
657 2012-04-06 18:09:09 barmstrong has joined
658 2012-04-06 18:09:19 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: any interest in merging #987 ? :p
659 2012-04-06 18:09:53 Cory has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
660 2012-04-06 18:10:02 PK has joined
661 2012-04-06 18:10:37 Nicksasa has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
662 2012-04-06 18:11:50 forsetifox has joined
663 2012-04-06 18:13:40 h4ckm3 has quit (Quit: changing servers)
664 2012-04-06 18:14:28 h4ckm3 has joined
665 2012-04-06 18:14:59 Cory has joined
666 2012-04-06 18:16:37 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: are you aware of any pending pulls that it will prevent from cleanly merging?
667 2012-04-06 18:21:58 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I'm aware of plenty of failed IPC-bug workarounds, but not aware of any that actually work sanely (Gavin NACK'd the last one IIRC)
668 2012-04-06 18:22:11 <gmaxwell> Okay.
669 2012-04-06 18:22:28 <luke-jr> that is, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1023
670 2012-04-06 18:22:53 <luke-jr> no actual "NACK" there, but that's how I interpreted it
671 2012-04-06 18:24:30 h4ckm3 has quit (Quit: changing servers)
672 2012-04-06 18:24:30 cypherdoc has joined
673 2012-04-06 18:24:43 Samuel has joined
674 2012-04-06 18:24:45 <Samuel> Hello
675 2012-04-06 18:25:04 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: Okay, Pulled.
676 2012-04-06 18:25:10 <gmaxwell> Happy good friday. ;)
677 2012-04-06 18:25:18 <luke-jr> thanks; you too :p
678 2012-04-06 18:25:35 h4ckm3 has joined
679 2012-04-06 18:27:31 Karmaon has joined
680 2012-04-06 18:29:37 Karmaon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
681 2012-04-06 18:30:43 <paulo_> is it possible to generate custom addresses ?
682 2012-04-06 18:30:54 <paulo_> or atleast something that makes sense
683 2012-04-06 18:31:26 <blinkbat> there are vanity address generators
684 2012-04-06 18:31:38 <paulo_> blinkbat: where?
685 2012-04-06 18:31:44 h4ckm3 has quit (Quit: changing servers)
686 2012-04-06 18:32:16 Karmaon has joined
687 2012-04-06 18:32:40 h4ckm3 has joined
688 2012-04-06 18:33:57 <paulo_> found it.
689 2012-04-06 18:35:18 Samuel has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
690 2012-04-06 18:36:13 gavinandresen has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
691 2012-04-06 18:43:16 <Diablo-D3> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3808343
692 2012-04-06 18:43:21 <Diablo-D3> everyone please upvote this comment
693 2012-04-06 18:46:17 <Joric> how many upboats so far?
694 2012-04-06 18:48:41 <Diablo-D3> none.
695 2012-04-06 18:48:46 <Diablo-D3> either that, or Im being massively downvoted
696 2012-04-06 18:48:49 <Diablo-D3> which happens
697 2012-04-06 18:49:06 <Diablo-D3> sometimes I feel like Im the only high karma user on HN that likes bitcoin
698 2012-04-06 18:50:39 occulta has joined
699 2012-04-06 18:51:13 freewil has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
700 2012-04-06 18:53:05 freewil has joined
701 2012-04-06 18:55:53 Z0rZ0rZ0r has joined
702 2012-04-06 19:01:32 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
703 2012-04-06 19:06:08 <upb> how many joricoats?
704 2012-04-06 19:06:52 _Fireball has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
705 2012-04-06 19:07:35 _Fireball has joined
706 2012-04-06 19:07:58 ab37 has joined
707 2012-04-06 19:10:26 T_X has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
708 2012-04-06 19:10:38 joehallofame has joined
709 2012-04-06 19:12:31 <joehallofame> sipa: hey dude this is joehallofame, the dude who still has coins I cant get to. Any new ideas, and is anyone else having this problem but me and the other guy gmax sent me a link to read about?
710 2012-04-06 19:12:56 <paulo_> since the address is essentially a hash of the public key, how will we find the public key given the hash?
711 2012-04-06 19:15:04 <luke-jr> paulo_: you won't.
712 2012-04-06 19:15:16 <helo> paulo_: we don't. the public key is sent as part of the transaction that sends the coin
713 2012-04-06 19:15:21 <gmaxwell> joehallofame: We found the bug.
714 2012-04-06 19:15:24 <luke-jr> joehallofame: sipa stepped out, but if you hang around he might be back
715 2012-04-06 19:15:24 <gmaxwell> (and fixed)
716 2012-04-06 19:15:28 <joehallofame> noh way
717 2012-04-06 19:15:29 <gmaxwell> But you won't be happy.
718 2012-04-06 19:15:41 <helo> how much coin was lost?
719 2012-04-06 19:15:46 <gmaxwell> helo: zero.
720 2012-04-06 19:15:49 <joehallofame> 61 are still in there
721 2012-04-06 19:16:04 <gmaxwell> joehallofame: the bug is that 1/256 invalid passphrases cause the crash. You've got the wrong passphrase.
722 2012-04-06 19:16:05 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: which bug is this?
723 2012-04-06 19:16:15 <helo> in that case i expect him to be happy :)
724 2012-04-06 19:16:15 <luke-jr> o lol
725 2012-04-06 19:16:38 <helo> so he will need to use pywallet to extract the key and put it into another wallet?
726 2012-04-06 19:16:50 <luke-jr> helo: if he doesn't have the passphrase, he's screwed.
727 2012-04-06 19:16:54 <gmaxwell> helo: What are you talking about??
728 2012-04-06 19:17:04 <helo> sorry, i must have misunderstood... disregard :)
729 2012-04-06 19:17:09 T_X has joined
730 2012-04-06 19:17:40 <joehallofame> hmmm. well it bumped me out when I typed the correct one I thought. The same thing happened to that other guy.
731 2012-04-06 19:18:03 <joehallofame> But it could be I guess that I don't have the correct one.
732 2012-04-06 19:18:11 <gmaxwell> Exactly.
733 2012-04-06 19:18:20 <gmaxwell> Thats why I said you won't be happy.
734 2012-04-06 19:18:45 <joehallofame> don't worry I'm never happy, lol
735 2012-04-06 19:19:00 <gmaxwell> Basically 1 in 256 incorrect keys was believed to be correct by the software (but then caused a crash). So people who were trying multiple keys _thought_ they had it right but it was crashing.
736 2012-04-06 19:19:16 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
737 2012-04-06 19:19:54 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: do you know off-hand which commit fixed that?
738 2012-04-06 19:19:57 <gmaxwell> joehallofame: someone else showed up with it, and after telling him I really thought he had the incorrect keyâ he figured out the correct one, emptied his wallet then gave it to Sipa and I.. and sipa was able to use it to track down and fix the bug.
739 2012-04-06 19:20:32 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: e5c027b49b72d8245ebec26cb92d918377fd81e0
740 2012-04-06 19:20:49 <luke-jr> ahhh
741 2012-04-06 19:20:58 <luke-jr> I saw that, but didn't quite figure out what it was for :P
742 2012-04-06 19:21:01 cypherdoc has quit (Quit: Page closed)
743 2012-04-06 19:21:57 <joehallofame> hmm...is a key a complete try, or is it just part of one attempt (a letter or number) because there is no way I tried 256 times. Is that what you mean?
744 2012-04-06 19:22:20 <luke-jr> joehallofame: he means there's a 1 in 256 chance you'll get a crash instead of an error
745 2012-04-06 19:22:26 <luke-jr> for any given wrong passphrae
746 2012-04-06 19:22:30 <gmaxwell> joehallofame: It's like playing russian roulette. 1:256 chance.. but you could hit it on your first try.
747 2012-04-06 19:22:34 <joehallofame> gotcha
748 2012-04-06 19:22:40 molecular has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
749 2012-04-06 19:22:51 <gmaxwell> and any crashing wrong passphrase will always crash.
750 2012-04-06 19:23:02 <gmaxwell> (for that particular wallet)
751 2012-04-06 19:23:10 <paulo_> i just figured out how the bitcoin address works, genious.
752 2012-04-06 19:23:25 <joehallofame> so it'll work if I can figure out the correct one, is there any other way though?
753 2012-04-06 19:23:41 <luke-jr> paulo_: keep reading. we're in the middle of making it more complicated! :P
754 2012-04-06 19:23:58 <luke-jr> joehallofame: if there were any other way, it'd defeat the purpose of encryption :p
755 2012-04-06 19:24:05 <gmaxwell> joehallofame: No, sadly. As luke says.
756 2012-04-06 19:24:21 <gmaxwell> Someone could potentially make a tool to try faster.
757 2012-04-06 19:24:24 <joehallofame> right that makes sense.
758 2012-04-06 19:24:36 <luke-jr> (though I don't think it would be a bad idea to support 10-of-10 master keys, enabled by users when encrypting their wallet..)
759 2012-04-06 19:24:50 <t7> i have an encryption function which takes an integer from 0 to p (where p is HUGE). Whats an safe and efficient way to encrypt a [Word8]? at the moment i convert the [Word8] into a [Integer (Base p)] encrypt and convert back but this takes ages
760 2012-04-06 19:25:13 <paulo_> the vanity keygen bruteforces at about 2.8Mkeys/s. :)
761 2012-04-06 19:25:20 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, what's the encryption mechanism used
762 2012-04-06 19:25:28 molecular has joined
763 2012-04-06 19:25:31 <phantomcircuit> or rather
764 2012-04-06 19:25:40 <phantomcircuit> that's the password verification mechanism used
765 2012-04-06 19:25:49 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: AES.. but the important point is that the passphrase is first salted and strenghtened by iterated hashing.
766 2012-04-06 19:26:19 <ab37> \
767 2012-04-06 19:26:22 <gmaxwell> The verification is ... well, it was supposted to be checking a private key matches its public key.. but the AES block mode adds padding so you can check that.
768 2012-04-06 19:26:38 <joehallofame> well Im glad you guys figured out what was making the software crash.
769 2012-04-06 19:27:13 Slix` has joined
770 2012-04-06 19:27:21 <luke-jr> what do you guys think of a checkbox at the Encrypt Wallet dialog, "Allow consensus of 8 developers to decrypt wallet, in case I lose my passphrase", and a special alert "This client's wallet has been requested for recovery. If you did not request this, contact security@bitcoin.org NOW" ?
771 2012-04-06 19:27:22 <gmaxwell> joehallofame: Me too, but I'm sorry to hear you don't (yet) know your passphrase.. if you're unable to get it after some concerted trying, let me know and I'll make a fast cracking tool for you that might help.
772 2012-04-06 19:27:23 <joehallofame> thanks for helpin' and I am sorry I was wastin your time.
773 2012-04-06 19:27:36 <joehallofame> what a guy
774 2012-04-06 19:27:46 <joehallofame> thanks I will take you up on that.
775 2012-04-06 19:27:49 <gmaxwell> joehallofame: well, it wasn't a waste.
776 2012-04-06 19:27:54 <joehallofame> good
777 2012-04-06 19:28:23 <joehallofame> see ya gmax.
778 2012-04-06 19:28:23 <gmaxwell> joehallofame: hearing your sequence of events helped me become more confident of the cause and insist the next guy keep trying even though from just looking at the code it didn't look like it could be due to a wrong password.
779 2012-04-06 19:28:28 <gmaxwell> Later.
780 2012-04-06 19:29:11 Karmaon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
781 2012-04-06 19:29:29 <luke-jr> â¦
782 2012-04-06 19:29:37 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: Thats not what I'd do for recovery... but I wouldn't be totally opposed to some kind of recovery. I'd prefer to have some option to print out some recovery code or something.
783 2012-04-06 19:29:47 <joehallofame> ok good, ill try some more, I just have no clue what it could be, but I can try again, I could have sworn that that was the correct one finally, but who knows. See ya later and thanks again.
784 2012-04-06 19:29:51 Karmaon has joined
785 2012-04-06 19:29:57 joehallofame has quit (Quit: Page closed)
786 2012-04-06 19:29:59 <gmaxwell> The problem with any recovery though is that users won't use itâ because "that won't happen to me!"
787 2012-04-06 19:30:00 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: someone could write down their passphrase just as easily? :P
788 2012-04-06 19:30:06 <phantomcircuit> typedef std::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, secure_allocator<char> > SecureString;
789 2012-04-06 19:30:16 <phantomcircuit> strictly speaking that leaks passphrase length
790 2012-04-06 19:30:18 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: dunno, I'd use it if I ever encrypted my wallet
791 2012-04-06 19:30:29 <phantomcircuit> but probably in a sea of gibberish
792 2012-04-06 19:30:35 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: yes, but they've been trained to not do that.
793 2012-04-06 19:30:55 <luke-jr> sigh
794 2012-04-06 19:31:01 Slix` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
795 2012-04-06 19:33:06 <ab37> Is there any open source irc controlled bitcoin miner out there?
796 2012-04-06 19:33:10 <gmaxwell> plus a printout could also save all the important backup data once we have determinstic wallets, so its double good.
797 2012-04-06 19:33:21 <gmaxwell> ab37: what ... would you do with irc control?
798 2012-04-06 19:33:35 <paulo_> feature suggestions: a direct way to input private keys
799 2012-04-06 19:33:52 <ab37> control multi computers
800 2012-04-06 19:34:40 <gmaxwell> ab37: control them how?
801 2012-04-06 19:34:41 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin-Test build #246: STILL FAILING in 25 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin-Test/246/
802 2012-04-06 19:34:42 <BlueMattBot> luke-jr+git: Bugfix: Replace "URL" with "URI" where we aren't actually working with URLs
803 2012-04-06 19:34:50 Slix` has joined
804 2012-04-06 19:35:10 <gmaxwell> paulo_: we have that, though its not exposed in the GUI right now. Why do you want it?
805 2012-04-06 19:35:41 <paulo_> gmaxwell: for vanity addresses.
806 2012-04-06 19:35:54 <gmaxwell> (and actually, if we get the anticipated console-in-gui perhaps it'll never be directly in the gui.. you'd just use the console)
807 2012-04-06 19:36:12 <gmaxwell> paulo_: in any case, you can do it if you use the CLI.
808 2012-04-06 19:36:19 <paulo_> ok, thanks
809 2012-04-06 19:36:37 <paulo_> also, a wallet import in the GUI
810 2012-04-06 19:37:21 <paulo_> are backuped wallets encrypted?
811 2012-04-06 19:37:32 <luke-jr> jenkins could be more clear :/
812 2012-04-06 19:37:54 <luke-jr> paulo_: no
813 2012-04-06 19:38:27 ab37 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
814 2012-04-06 19:39:25 PK has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
815 2012-04-06 19:39:38 ab37 has joined
816 2012-04-06 19:39:55 PK has joined
817 2012-04-06 19:41:09 graingert has joined
818 2012-04-06 19:41:28 <graingert> in a multi user system is there any way to share the storage costs of the blockchain?
819 2012-04-06 19:41:57 <graingert> each user maintains a hash of each file it has checked
820 2012-04-06 19:42:03 <graingert> and add their file to shared storage
821 2012-04-06 19:42:44 <graingert> each file would be diffs of the blockchain
822 2012-04-06 19:42:58 <graingert> that way the actual tx data would be stored once
823 2012-04-06 19:44:17 Joric_ has joined
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827 2012-04-06 19:53:14 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, so it seems to me that a fairly simple mixing protocol would be sufficient if not optimal for bitcoin
828 2012-04-06 19:53:35 <phantomcircuit> mixers broadcast the other mixers they push to
829 2012-04-06 19:53:56 <phantomcircuit> people intending to mix onion route to their final destination mixer
830 2012-04-06 19:54:23 <phantomcircuit> mixers simply send a specific sized packet every second regardless of whats in it
831 2012-04-06 19:55:05 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
832 2012-04-06 19:56:10 paulo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
833 2012-04-06 19:56:51 <luke-jr> is there a legitimate use for mixing?
834 2012-04-06 19:57:08 <copumpkin> >_>
835 2012-04-06 19:57:30 <copumpkin> keeping other people's noses out of your business, regardless of who those people are
836 2012-04-06 19:58:09 <graingert> purchasing pork in muslim owned territories
837 2012-04-06 19:58:26 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: yes, You're in Saudi Arabia and want to donate to the Catholic church with the minimum risk of getting executed and thus leaving your children to starve.
838 2012-04-06 19:58:31 <copumpkin> the whole "if you have nothing to hide" style of argument is kind of annoying
839 2012-04-06 19:58:37 <copumpkin> lol
840 2012-04-06 19:59:07 <graingert> I should say sharia not muslim owned
841 2012-04-06 19:59:42 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: In any case, it's not something that should be part of bitcoin proper. I agree with that. The bitcoin proper part of it would simply be a feature that says "relay this txn only to [HERE]", which is generally a reasonable feature. For the mixer [here] would just be a mixer gateway address.
842 2012-04-06 20:00:02 paulo_ has joined
843 2012-04-06 20:01:05 dr_win has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
844 2012-04-06 20:01:16 joehallofame has joined
845 2012-04-06 20:01:29 <joehallofame> where the fuck are you gmax and where can I send you some money to?????
846 2012-04-06 20:01:38 dr_win has joined
847 2012-04-06 20:01:56 <gmaxwell> joehallofame: hahaha
848 2012-04-06 20:01:57 <joehallofame> Im not takin no for an answer
849 2012-04-06 20:02:12 <joehallofame> you went above and beyond helpin my dumb ass out'
850 2012-04-06 20:02:13 traviscj has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
851 2012-04-06 20:02:15 <gmaxwell> joehallofame: I'm glad to hear you found you passphrase.
852 2012-04-06 20:02:21 <joehallofame> that's a lot of cash to me.
853 2012-04-06 20:02:38 <joehallofame> thank you so much I got 10 coins for you and 10 for mr sipa
854 2012-04-06 20:02:49 <joehallofame> How can I get em to ya?
855 2012-04-06 20:02:53 <graingert> that's a lot of coin
856 2012-04-06 20:02:59 <joehallofame> Im rollin in it
857 2012-04-06 20:03:20 <luke-jr> hmm, #bitcoin-watch is still running on 0.3.21.ljr2 :|
858 2012-04-06 20:03:34 <graingert> make sure nobody man in the middles your addresses
859 2012-04-06 20:04:29 <Joric_> looks like there's an error in bitcoinjs
860 2012-04-06 20:04:35 Joric_ is now known as Joric
861 2012-04-06 20:04:35 <luke-jr> joehallofame: 1KwDYMJMS4xq3ZEWYfdBRwYG2fHwhZsipa is sipa's address
862 2012-04-06 20:04:39 <luke-jr> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2786
863 2012-04-06 20:04:46 traviscj has joined
864 2012-04-06 20:05:03 <joehallofame> promise
865 2012-04-06 20:05:15 <Joric> https://github.com/bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-lib/blob/master/src/ecdsa.js <- check out lines 27-29, prefixes are messed up should be 0x03 and 0x02 accordingly
866 2012-04-06 20:05:20 <paulo_> do you see a world where everyone uses BTC ?
867 2012-04-06 20:05:25 Samuel has joined
868 2012-04-06 20:05:25 <Joric> please confirm
869 2012-04-06 20:05:31 <graingert> paulo_: #bitcoin
870 2012-04-06 20:05:49 <luke-jr> paulo_: honestly, no. it would kill local economies.
871 2012-04-06 20:05:55 <paulo_> oh, sorry.
872 2012-04-06 20:05:55 <Samuel> Any updates on the Bitcoin app design?
873 2012-04-06 20:06:05 <Joric> y.testBit(0) true means prefix 0x03
874 2012-04-06 20:06:27 <luke-jr> paulo_: just look at online work-bidding sites. India outbids first-world programmers all the time
875 2012-04-06 20:08:31 <gmaxwell> joehallofame: the address for sipa on bitcointalk.org should certantly be correct.
876 2012-04-06 20:08:58 <joehallofame> its sent
877 2012-04-06 20:09:02 <joehallofame> you got one?
878 2012-04-06 20:09:19 <gmaxwell> joehallofame: see private messages.
879 2012-04-06 20:09:20 <graingert> but you get terrible code back
880 2012-04-06 20:09:25 <joehallofame> You helped first but sipa wrote that big patch.
881 2012-04-06 20:10:40 <gmaxwell> joehallofame: how many tries did it take you?
882 2012-04-06 20:11:02 <joehallofame> like 12
883 2012-04-06 20:11:32 <gmaxwell> You're very generous, thanks.
884 2012-04-06 20:11:44 <joehallofame> It was written down as two passwords, that I use for different stuff but I put a new prefix on it, you are so welcome.
885 2012-04-06 20:12:27 <joehallofame> its just nice to see people who really try hard at what they do, I try to do that everyday too, so this is the least I could do.
886 2012-04-06 20:12:57 <joehallofame> See you later and tell sipa thanks.
887 2012-04-06 20:13:01 <BlueMatt> sipa: did you break build?
888 2012-04-06 20:13:04 <BlueMatt> http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin-Test/245/
889 2012-04-06 20:13:41 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: yes, welcome to being luke a few hours ago. :)
890 2012-04-06 20:14:17 <luke-jr> XD
891 2012-04-06 20:14:20 <joehallofame> You never know maybe someday I could use a code cracker like you mentioned ;)
892 2012-04-06 20:14:25 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: time for 0.5.4rc3?
893 2012-04-06 20:14:28 <joehallofame> peace
894 2012-04-06 20:14:30 joehallofame has quit (Quit: Page closed)
895 2012-04-06 20:16:34 Samuel has quit (Quit: Page closed)
896 2012-04-06 20:20:55 Slix` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
897 2012-04-06 20:22:47 dub has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
898 2012-04-06 20:24:09 dub has joined
899 2012-04-06 20:24:15 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: ah, sorry...
900 2012-04-06 20:35:03 forsetifox has quit (Quit: Page closed)
901 2012-04-06 20:40:49 Hasbro has quit (Changing host)
902 2012-04-06 20:40:49 Hasbro has joined
903 2012-04-06 20:44:29 <luke-jr> * [new tag] v0.4.5rc3 -> v0.4.5rc3
904 2012-04-06 20:44:31 <luke-jr> * [new tag] v0.5.0.6rc3 -> v0.5.0.6rc3
905 2012-04-06 20:44:32 <luke-jr> * [new tag] v0.5.4rc3 -> v0.5.4rc3
906 2012-04-06 20:45:38 Diapolo has joined
907 2012-04-06 20:47:03 <Diapolo> hi
908 2012-04-06 20:47:34 <luke-jr> Diapolo: hey, you should hang out here more :p
909 2012-04-06 20:48:23 <Diapolo> if I hang here I can't code ^^ and have less freetime ;)
910 2012-04-06 20:48:34 <Diapolo> I'm fine with URI btw. ^^
911 2012-04-06 20:48:39 <luke-jr> XD
912 2012-04-06 20:49:58 <Diapolo> could there be a problem with GetDataDir() and thread safety?
913 2012-04-06 20:56:38 forsetifox has joined
914 2012-04-06 21:01:49 JRWR has quit (Quit: "If the dinosaurs had a space program, they'd still be here." - Ron Garan)
915 2012-04-06 21:04:50 <luke-jr> well that's confusing. now we have 2 testnets?
916 2012-04-06 21:06:47 zibinhi has joined
917 2012-04-06 21:09:32 <Joric> someone ACK https://github.com/bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-lib/issues/6
918 2012-04-06 21:14:07 toffoo has joined
919 2012-04-06 21:18:14 <Diapolo> We have 2 testnets?
920 2012-04-06 21:18:16 <Diapolo> fork?
921 2012-04-06 21:18:31 <luke-jr> Diapolo: freenode testnet
922 2012-04-06 21:19:43 Joric_ has joined
923 2012-04-06 21:21:22 <paulo_> how do I import a private key through CLI?
924 2012-04-06 21:21:39 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
925 2012-04-06 21:22:01 <BlueMatt> you can in 0.6
926 2012-04-06 21:22:17 <paulo_> what's the command?
927 2012-04-06 21:22:28 <paulo_> i don't think it's in /?
928 2012-04-06 21:23:07 Joric_ is now known as Joric
929 2012-04-06 21:24:01 <BlueMatt> you have to do rpc
930 2012-04-06 21:24:09 <BlueMatt> you cant do it via cli arguments
931 2012-04-06 21:24:34 <paulo_> how do I do that?
932 2012-04-06 21:25:44 BurtyB has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
933 2012-04-06 21:25:59 <BlueMatt> launch bitcoin-qt or bitcoind with -rpcuser=user -rpcpassword=pass -server and then call bitcoind -rpcuser=user -rpcpassword=pass importprivkey ...
934 2012-04-06 21:28:15 * gmaxwell looks forwarded to an integrated console in the gui
935 2012-04-06 21:28:35 <sipa> BlueMatt: yes, i broke an over-eager unit testr
936 2012-04-06 21:28:48 <sipa> but i'm doing a further refactor of locking code
937 2012-04-06 21:28:57 <BlueMatt> ah, nice
938 2012-04-06 21:29:00 <sipa> so i'll fix it afterwards
939 2012-04-06 21:31:58 Karmaon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
940 2012-04-06 21:32:08 <luke-jr> sipa: 0.5.4rc3 is ready for building
941 2012-04-06 21:35:29 <Joric> why 0.5.4 when 0.6.0 is a current release?
942 2012-04-06 21:35:41 <luke-jr> Joric: 0.5 is more tested/stable
943 2012-04-06 21:36:09 <luke-jr> Joric: there's also a bitcoind 0.4.5rc3 just tagged, but it's even less mentioned :P
944 2012-04-06 21:37:00 <luke-jr> for production services, you don't necessarily want to take on the risk of an upgrade with features you don't need
945 2012-04-06 21:37:20 <luke-jr> (and if you use any custom patches, doing so would involve work to port them too)
946 2012-04-06 21:40:07 c00w has joined
947 2012-04-06 21:41:27 BurtyB has joined
948 2012-04-06 21:42:12 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sipa opened pull request 1052 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1052>
949 2012-04-06 21:42:24 <luke-jr> hmm, crap
950 2012-04-06 21:42:31 <luke-jr> 0.5.4rc3 isn't building for win32 :|
951 2012-04-06 21:42:39 <graingert> onoes
952 2012-04-06 21:43:10 nickname3243 has joined
953 2012-04-06 21:44:47 minimoose has joined
954 2012-04-06 21:45:01 * luke-jr ponders whether to overwrite the tags with fix, or tag v0.5.4rc3.1
955 2012-04-06 21:45:22 <sipa> don't worry, nobody will notice
956 2012-04-06 21:46:43 <luke-jr> :x
957 2012-04-06 21:46:57 <luke-jr> 473dce9..eb34b17 v0.5.0.6rc3 -> v0.5.0.6rc3
958 2012-04-06 21:46:58 <luke-jr> 2363932..5207267 v0.5.4rc3 -> v0.5.4rc3
959 2012-04-06 21:47:33 <Diapolo> luke-jr: what's wrong with the Win32 build?
960 2012-04-06 21:48:06 <luke-jr> Diapolo: I used sleep() in a backport, and apparently Win32 is lackingâ¦
961 2012-04-06 21:48:08 <sipa> nickname3243: can you ask here?
962 2012-04-06 21:48:16 <luke-jr> shouldn't affect master
963 2012-04-06 21:48:32 <nickname3243> okay
964 2012-04-06 21:50:46 <nickname3243> on bitcoin.it it says something about using ps3
965 2012-04-06 21:50:49 <nickname3243> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison
966 2012-04-06 21:51:08 <nickname3243> Sony Playstation 3 (FAT): Needs custom firmware. source source Running with 7th spu enabled and both ppe cores.
967 2012-04-06 21:51:16 <luke-jr> nickname3243: it also says it's at a loss, not profit
968 2012-04-06 21:51:40 <nickname3243> okay,
969 2012-04-06 21:52:02 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
970 2012-04-06 21:52:35 <nickname3243> i was wondering how they got it working with all 7 spus instead of 6
971 2012-04-06 21:56:41 c00w has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
972 2012-04-06 21:56:41 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
973 2012-04-06 21:56:44 Joric_ has joined
974 2012-04-06 21:58:48 kish is now known as kosmic
975 2012-04-06 21:58:52 kosmic is now known as spice
976 2012-04-06 21:59:00 spice is now known as oracle
977 2012-04-06 21:59:05 oracle is now known as gaddafi
978 2012-04-06 21:59:42 <luke-jr> sipa: fwiw, BlueMatt had to use 'git fetch --tags stable' explicitly to get the update
979 2012-04-06 22:00:13 <sipa> luke-jr: does it build now?
980 2012-04-06 22:00:44 <luke-jr> sipa: well, I fixed the issue it had. my gitian seems slower than everyone else's, so it might be a while to know for sure
981 2012-04-06 22:01:20 <luke-jr> (this was my incentive behind win32-deps gitian ;)
982 2012-04-06 22:02:53 c00w has joined
983 2012-04-06 22:02:54 nickname3243 has quit ()
984 2012-04-06 22:03:19 c00w is now known as Guest78828
985 2012-04-06 22:03:40 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
986 2012-04-06 22:04:05 traviscj has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
987 2012-04-06 22:06:00 traviscj has joined
988 2012-04-06 22:06:03 gaddafi is now known as kish
989 2012-04-06 22:08:24 <sipa> luke-jr: building
990 2012-04-06 22:08:56 Guest78828 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
991 2012-04-06 22:11:49 copumpkin has joined
992 2012-04-06 22:19:23 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: damnit, let me troll them
993 2012-04-06 22:27:56 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: rebroad opened issue 1053 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1053>
994 2012-04-06 22:28:18 agricocb has joined
995 2012-04-06 22:28:44 PK has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
996 2012-04-06 22:29:15 PK has joined
997 2012-04-06 22:30:47 <sipa> i'd like to use git describe to generate a "build info" string, that's shown in the about box and a --version perhaps
998 2012-04-06 22:31:31 <sipa> one way to do so is having a build.h as part of the repository, with a static version number in it
999 2012-04-06 22:31:51 <sipa> but run a script at build time that checks whether .git is present, and if so, calls git describe to regenerate it
1000 2012-04-06 22:32:01 Z0rZ0rZ0r1 has joined
1001 2012-04-06 22:32:01 Z0rZ0rZ0r has quit (Disconnected by services)
1002 2012-04-06 22:32:16 <sipa> this would only work on non-windows systems though
1003 2012-04-06 22:32:24 <Diablo-D3> sipa: thats what I considered
1004 2012-04-06 22:32:29 <Diablo-D3> but it should check if git exists too
1005 2012-04-06 22:32:33 <sipa> agree
1006 2012-04-06 22:32:44 <Diablo-D3> you could do it all inside of ./configure too
1007 2012-04-06 22:32:52 <sipa> not that we have a configure
1008 2012-04-06 22:32:56 <Diablo-D3> just make sure your build.h is added ti .gitignore
1009 2012-04-06 22:33:02 <sipa> yeah
1010 2012-04-06 22:33:28 <luke-jr> sipa: make should be able to do it, I think
1011 2012-04-06 22:33:46 <Diablo-D3> make could do it too, but you'd be making rather gnuey makefiles
1012 2012-04-06 22:33:46 <luke-jr> use a phony target
1013 2012-04-06 22:33:54 <gmaxwell> I have autoconf rules for this in other projects...
1014 2012-04-06 22:34:28 <gmaxwell> what would be really slick is figuring out a way of making it work for builds from the github zip files of the source.
1015 2012-04-06 22:34:31 Joric has joined
1016 2012-04-06 22:34:31 Joric has quit (Changing host)
1017 2012-04-06 22:34:31 Joric has joined
1018 2012-04-06 22:34:41 Joric_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1019 2012-04-06 22:35:06 <Diablo-D3> easy
1020 2012-04-06 22:35:10 <Diablo-D3> dont use github zip files; )
1021 2012-04-06 22:36:02 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I suppose you could check the root dir name
1022 2012-04-06 22:36:17 <luke-jr> github annoyingly names it with a commit id
1023 2012-04-06 22:36:40 cdecker has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1024 2012-04-06 22:37:15 <sipa> luke-jr: it's not a problem whether it's doable - i know how to do it in a makefile and in qmake
1025 2012-04-06 22:37:31 <sipa> but whether there is a better solution that is more cross platform
1026 2012-04-06 22:38:20 <sipa> gmaxwell: well you can just have a static build.h in the repository
1027 2012-04-06 22:38:33 Joric_ has joined
1028 2012-04-06 22:38:33 Joric_ has quit (Changing host)
1029 2012-04-06 22:38:33 Joric_ has joined
1030 2012-04-06 22:38:51 <gmaxwell> sipa: well, the dirname will actually have the commit hash in it.
1031 2012-04-06 22:39:02 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1032 2012-04-06 22:39:07 * luke-jr notes the dirname approach doesn't work for Gitorious tarballs
1033 2012-04-06 22:39:17 <sipa> you could indeed test whether the directory name matches a certain pattern
1034 2012-04-06 22:39:22 <luke-jr> it's a shame the DVCS got rid of Svn's keywords stuff
1035 2012-04-06 22:40:12 <luke-jr> that would have worked nicely
1036 2012-04-06 22:41:49 <gmaxwell> I assume git has checkout hooks that could be used, but I likewise assume that github won't run them for those zips.
1037 2012-04-06 22:42:09 <sipa> what's a platform-independent way for getting the current directory name?
1038 2012-04-06 22:42:21 <luke-jr> git hooks have to be installed in every local git clone too
1039 2012-04-06 22:42:27 <sipa> $PWD sounds not entirely safe
1040 2012-04-06 22:42:40 Slix` has joined
1041 2012-04-06 22:42:58 <luke-jr> sipa: in what environment? :P
1042 2012-04-06 22:43:17 <sipa> unix-like
1043 2012-04-06 22:43:27 <sipa> i suppose that's the best you can ask for
1044 2012-04-06 22:43:28 <luke-jr> sh? make? qmake?
1045 2012-04-06 22:43:32 <sipa> sh
1046 2012-04-06 22:43:43 <luke-jr> I think $PWD works in any sh
1047 2012-04-06 22:44:14 <luke-jr> yes, POSIX specifies PWD as required for sh
1048 2012-04-06 22:44:55 datagutt has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1049 2012-04-06 22:47:41 <sipa> now, the github tarballs use a dirname of <projname>-<reponame>-<commitid>
1050 2012-04-06 22:47:50 <sipa> which doesn't give the latest tag
1051 2012-04-06 22:48:01 <luke-jr> 2b174289491deef839907f1812ddafa55f1b539763bd3e344f7506d8393872a6 bitcoin-0.5.4rc3-win32-setup.exe
1052 2012-04-06 22:48:25 <gmaxwell> sipa: at least we can manually resolve that.
1053 2012-04-06 22:48:32 JRWR has joined
1054 2012-04-06 22:48:44 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: only with an active network connection
1055 2012-04-06 22:48:52 <sipa> luke-jr: matches
1056 2012-04-06 22:49:50 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: I don't mean in the softare.. I mean when a user gives us their about info and it says "<projname>-<reponame>-<commitid>" we can still figure that out.
1057 2012-04-06 22:50:00 <sipa> or
1058 2012-04-06 22:50:14 <sipa> so i propose: move CLIENT_VERSION to a version.h, have a static build.h that just includes version.h, and a script that based on either git-describe or dirname+version.h that generates build.h
1059 2012-04-06 22:50:48 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: sure
1060 2012-04-06 22:51:23 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: we could also do something evil like embed the sha256 of every .cpp file :P
1061 2012-04-06 22:51:52 <gmaxwell> we can have a series of ifndef that builds CLIENT_VERSION out of a git-describe define, or failing that a dirname+existing_version.h or failing that just the static CLIENT_VERSION.
1062 2012-04-06 22:52:07 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: which would mostly just confirm that we don't know what they're running. :)
1063 2012-04-06 22:52:37 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: or use sha1 so we can look it up in git :p
1064 2012-04-06 22:58:12 traviscj has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1065 2012-04-06 22:58:44 <sipa> how are the four digits of the version number called?
1066 2012-04-06 22:58:51 <sipa> major, minor, revision, build?
1067 2012-04-06 22:58:54 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1068 2012-04-06 22:59:26 <luke-jr> major/minor/bugfix :p
1069 2012-04-06 22:59:29 <luke-jr> nanotube: ping
1070 2012-04-06 22:59:56 PK has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1071 2012-04-06 23:00:15 dwon has joined
1072 2012-04-06 23:00:27 PK has joined
1073 2012-04-06 23:03:45 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: when you're done... please confirm:
1074 2012-04-06 23:03:46 <luke-jr> e9a842018d3ce39b49db0e554969d82ae17284585b044a1cd391e79005cd226a bitcoin-0.5.4rc3-linux/bin/32/bitcoin-qt
1075 2012-04-06 23:03:48 <luke-jr> 2fdd1a158369272d8fc8be5bdce137f0cb5e54de80ee23174cd8be92ca5776a5 bitcoin-0.5.4rc3-linux/bin/32/bitcoind
1076 2012-04-06 23:03:49 Joric_ is now known as Joric
1077 2012-04-06 23:03:49 <luke-jr> cf67be7f71c02155854abc96570f8f87fa477e378ea1320fc62630316d52ce37 bitcoin-0.5.4rc3-win32/bitcoin-qt.exe
1078 2012-04-06 23:03:51 <luke-jr> 7af8fb1968360064f0250e88145a900f958f61623d73b868435732614d6031f4 bitcoin-0.5.4rc3-win32/daemon/bitcoind.exe
1079 2012-04-06 23:03:52 <luke-jr> 2b174289491deef839907f1812ddafa55f1b539763bd3e344f7506d8393872a6 bitcoin-0.5.4rc3-win32-setup.exe
1080 2012-04-06 23:03:54 <nanotube> luke-jr: pong
1081 2012-04-06 23:04:14 <luke-jr> nanotube: looks like we'll have 0.5.4rc3 ready for SF tonight, as soon as BlueMatt can confirm the SHA256s
1082 2012-04-06 23:04:21 <luke-jr> nanotube: http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/bitcoind/0.5.4/test/rc3/
1083 2012-04-06 23:06:05 <nanotube> luke-jr: ah ic. well i gtg soon, so i'll take a look when i'm back tonight/tomorrow.
1084 2012-04-06 23:06:30 <luke-jr> k
1085 2012-04-06 23:06:34 PK has quit (Dinner!~PK@pdpc/supporter/active/pk|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1086 2012-04-06 23:07:59 <sipa> luke-jr: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/builds/0.5.4rc3/
1087 2012-04-06 23:08:03 PK has joined
1088 2012-04-06 23:08:21 <luke-jr> sipa: thanks
1089 2012-04-06 23:09:11 * luke-jr actually cheated to get them on his webserver by wget'ing from sipa and rsyncing over it :P
1090 2012-04-06 23:09:21 <luke-jr> although, my upload shouldn't be too bad anymoreâ¦
1091 2012-04-06 23:10:17 Joric_ has joined
1092 2012-04-06 23:10:17 Joric_ has quit (Changing host)
1093 2012-04-06 23:10:17 Joric_ has joined
1094 2012-04-06 23:10:33 occulta has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
1095 2012-04-06 23:10:56 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1096 2012-04-06 23:15:32 <luke-jr> "Since key length and key structure vary and since the encryption engine does not use any mathematical algorithms, reverse engineering is impossible and guessing is not an option."
1097 2012-04-06 23:15:33 <luke-jr> lolwut?
1098 2012-04-06 23:18:18 <lianj> awesome :)
1099 2012-04-06 23:18:27 <_W_> haha quality
1100 2012-04-06 23:18:43 <copumpkin> I hate things that use mathematical algorithms
1101 2012-04-06 23:19:00 <Joric_> since pre-school
1102 2012-04-06 23:20:01 <sipa> luke-jr: ?
1103 2012-04-06 23:23:16 <Joric_> http://www.engr.mun.ca/~howard/crypto2012/crypto_snake_oil.pdf must be it
1104 2012-04-06 23:23:26 <Joric_> listed in 'Ridiculous Statements to
1105 2012-04-06 23:23:26 <Joric_> Sell Crypto Productsâ¦
1106 2012-04-06 23:24:54 <luke-jr> http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-9902.html#snakeoil
1107 2012-04-06 23:25:42 <Joric_> original letter http://www.shmoo.com/mail/cypherpunks/feb99/msg00268.html
1108 2012-04-06 23:25:45 Joric_ is now known as Joric
1109 2012-04-06 23:26:15 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: also
1110 2012-04-06 23:26:15 <Joric> site seems exprired
1111 2012-04-06 23:26:16 <luke-jr> 9efd080b0d726b396c7e5a0a9197f5f145716a83b57ce57ef72bcaa510a0fa9b bitcoin-0.5.4rc3-linux/bin/64/bitcoin-qt
1112 2012-04-06 23:26:18 <luke-jr> 7a09656ff8ba3163a9e4c9be186f937b91e1aafb87253b2f703db53606146ec1 bitcoin-0.5.4rc3-linux/bin/64/bitcoind
1113 2012-04-06 23:26:40 <Diapolo> I'm asking again, is GetDataDir() thread safe? I get some weird results, that seem to come from that function. Replacing it with a hard-coded path fixes it.
1114 2012-04-06 23:26:44 <Joric> 'Each record is SEPARATELY encrypted without
1115 2012-04-06 23:26:44 <Joric> Algorithms.
1116 2012-04-06 23:27:05 <Joric> without ALGORITHMS!
1117 2012-04-06 23:27:33 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: 2b174289491deef839907f1812ddafa55f1b539763bd3e344f7506d8393872a6 bitcoin-0.5.4-win32-setup.exe
1118 2012-04-06 23:27:33 <BlueMatt> cf67be7f71c02155854abc96570f8f87fa477e378ea1320fc62630316d52ce37 bitcoin-qt.exe
1119 2012-04-06 23:27:33 <BlueMatt> 7af8fb1968360064f0250e88145a900f958f61623d73b868435732614d6031f4 daemon/bitcoind.exe
1120 2012-04-06 23:27:40 <BlueMatt> e9a842018d3ce39b49db0e554969d82ae17284585b044a1cd391e79005cd226a bin/32/bitcoin-qt
1121 2012-04-06 23:27:40 <BlueMatt> 2fdd1a158369272d8fc8be5bdce137f0cb5e54de80ee23174cd8be92ca5776a5 bin/32/bitcoind
1122 2012-04-06 23:27:40 <BlueMatt> 9efd080b0d726b396c7e5a0a9197f5f145716a83b57ce57ef72bcaa510a0fa9b bin/64/bitcoin-qt
1123 2012-04-06 23:27:40 <BlueMatt> 7a09656ff8ba3163a9e4c9be186f937b91e1aafb87253b2f703db53606146ec1 bin/64/bitcoind
1124 2012-04-06 23:28:02 <luke-jr> Diapolo: it is not.
1125 2012-04-06 23:28:50 <Diapolo> Any idea for a quick fix to test?
1126 2012-04-06 23:29:05 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: looks good, thanks
1127 2012-04-06 23:29:08 <Diapolo> guess I'll got to bed first ^^ it's late
1128 2012-04-06 23:29:15 <luke-jr> Diapolo: get rid of the static bits
1129 2012-04-06 23:29:34 <luke-jr> nanotube: whenever you're ready, we have 3 confirmations on 0.5.4rc3 now
1130 2012-04-06 23:29:39 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: do you want sigs too, or is that good?
1131 2012-04-06 23:29:40 <Diapolo> will try that tomorrow, thanks
1132 2012-04-06 23:29:49 <Diapolo> good night
1133 2012-04-06 23:29:52 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: sigs can go to the repo as usual
1134 2012-04-06 23:30:12 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: you mean https://github.com/bitcoin/gitian.sigs ?
1135 2012-04-06 23:30:16 <luke-jr> yeah
1136 2012-04-06 23:30:23 <BlueMatt> will do
1137 2012-04-06 23:30:30 <luke-jr> looks like sipa didn't push his yet
1138 2012-04-06 23:30:58 * luke-jr wonders if he has access to push there
1139 2012-04-06 23:31:13 Diapolo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1140 2012-04-06 23:31:42 <sipa> oh right
1141 2012-04-06 23:32:00 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: did someone finally merge your key to contrib/gitian-downloader/
1142 2012-04-06 23:34:09 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: done
1143 2012-04-06 23:34:44 <luke-jr> ok, now I need to figure out *how* :P
1144 2012-04-06 23:34:57 <luke-jr> hopefully it doesn't mean rebuilding ⦠O.o
1145 2012-04-06 23:35:11 <BlueMatt> did you not gsign after building?
1146 2012-04-06 23:36:25 <luke-jr> I guess not
1147 2012-04-06 23:37:05 <luke-jr> if I recreate the build/out dir as it was, will that be enough to do so?
1148 2012-04-06 23:37:16 <sipa> i have a script for doing checkout+build+sign+package+checksum+sign, but if i specify a commit instead of a tag, it does not do gitian sigs
1149 2012-04-06 23:37:23 <sipa> i'll need to re-run it i guess
1150 2012-04-06 23:38:54 <BlueMatt> I think you /have/ to rebuild, just build/out isnt enough iirc
1151 2012-04-06 23:39:11 traviscj has joined
1152 2012-04-06 23:39:17 <BlueMatt> I forget where it stores the package list
1153 2012-04-06 23:39:27 <BlueMatt> and if result/ is generated on gsign or gbuild
1154 2012-04-06 23:39:49 <luke-jr> bleh, fine
1155 2012-04-06 23:39:54 <luke-jr> when 0.4.5rc3 finishesâ¦
1156 2012-04-06 23:40:48 Karmaon has joined
1157 2012-04-06 23:41:58 <gmaxwell> TD: http://mintchipchallenge.com/forum_topics/759 < bottom post here brutalizes mintchip
1158 2012-04-06 23:42:26 <TD> "While we appreciate your interest in the physical chip's trusted hardware, public-key infrastructure and encryption methods, we are not in a position to release that information at this time."
1159 2012-04-06 23:42:29 <TD> not surprised
1160 2012-04-06 23:42:59 Turingi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1161 2012-04-06 23:43:13 <gmaxwell> well interesting to see the the last of detailed information wasn't just oversight.
1162 2012-04-06 23:43:18 <gmaxwell> s/last/lack/
1163 2012-04-06 23:43:29 <TD> i wasn't expecting them to publish details of the hardware chips
1164 2012-04-06 23:43:37 <TD> argh
1165 2012-04-06 23:43:44 <TD> compiling gcc on darwin is an exercise in frustration
1166 2012-04-06 23:44:31 <Joric> special, canadian math
1167 2012-04-06 23:44:41 <sipa> neomath
1168 2012-04-06 23:44:50 Rebroad has joined
1169 2012-04-06 23:45:01 <luke-jr> TD: I'd be more interested in compiling Darwin GCC on Linux ;)
1170 2012-04-06 23:45:22 <Rebroad> hi. quick question. regarding re-orgs.. do they re-org to the heighest chain or the chain that required the most work to date?
1171 2012-04-06 23:45:26 <Rebroad> or neither?
1172 2012-04-06 23:45:30 <TD> Rebroad: most work
1173 2012-04-06 23:46:01 <Rebroad> oh.. as I read somewhere it was the "longest"...
1174 2012-04-06 23:46:03 <gmaxwell> Rebroad: the greatest sum work. You can't mine a chain of a million diff 1 blocks and get nodes to switch to it.
1175 2012-04-06 23:46:05 <Rebroad> but maybe I misread
1176 2012-04-06 23:46:15 <gmaxwell> Rebroad: longest in terms of work applied. :)
1177 2012-04-06 23:46:19 <Rebroad> gmaxwell, glad to hear that!
1178 2012-04-06 23:46:38 <gmaxwell> Also, the checkpoints and blockflooding anti-dos prevent you from running nodes out of diskspace by giving them such a chain.
1179 2012-04-06 23:48:56 <Rebroad> my 0.6.0.6-beta windows bitcoin-qt is behaving strange. it's always saying last block received 1 hour ago (even though it's had them more recently)
1180 2012-04-06 23:50:06 <Rebroad> also, I'm wondering, why does the debug show "askfor" - wouldn't something like "inv" be less misleading? "askfor" sounds like my node is asking for something
1181 2012-04-06 23:50:24 freewil has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1182 2012-04-06 23:51:04 <sipa> Rebroad: askfor means it received an askfor request, afaik
1183 2012-04-06 23:51:22 <sipa> a getdata request, i mean
1184 2012-04-06 23:51:43 <Rebroad> regarding the checkpointing you mentioned, gmaxwell, wouldn't this mean that perhaps some pruning of old data, e.g. spent whatsits, can be prunced from the blk files?
1185 2012-04-06 23:52:17 <Rebroad> sipa, I thought askfor meant it received an "inv" message, which is the node saying what it has, and the "getdata" means it asks for it
1186 2012-04-06 23:54:18 <gmaxwell> Rebroad: I don't see why you think that has anything to do with checkpoints.
1187 2012-04-06 23:54:25 toffoo has quit ()
1188 2012-04-06 23:54:26 <gmaxwell> You can prune independantly of that.
1189 2012-04-06 23:54:46 <Rebroad> gmaxwell, ah, i guess I don't understand what checkpoints are then
1190 2012-04-06 23:55:06 <luke-jr> Rebroad: optimizations for known history at time of release
1191 2012-04-06 23:55:26 <Rebroad> luke-jr, that's what I understood them to be
1192 2012-04-06 23:55:31 <gmaxwell> Rebroad: mostly they keep a isolated node which can't hear the real chain from being fed a totally fake one... so the security is no worse than your ability to fake the download site.
1193 2012-04-06 23:55:50 <gmaxwell> They also prevent people from filling up your disk with large junk chains.
1194 2012-04-06 23:56:28 zibinhi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1195 2012-04-06 23:56:54 freewil has joined
1196 2012-04-06 23:57:36 <gmaxwell> They don't replace the need to download and validate the chain historyâ because bitcoin is zero trust.. you don't trust that the other nodes have correctly processed the history, you audit it. (and you don't have to trust that the software works right, as you can audit it too) Of course the fact that any badness would be detected means no one tries any..
1197 2012-04-06 23:57:53 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1198 2012-04-06 23:58:12 <Rebroad> so, the first checkpoint is at 11111, right? does that mean someone could fill my disk with a junk chain from block 1 to 11110?
1199 2012-04-06 23:58:24 <Rebroad> and another from 11112 to 33332?
1200 2012-04-06 23:58:40 <Rebroad> (although presumeably a more difficult to generate one)
1201 2012-04-06 23:59:48 PK has quit ()
1202 2012-04-06 23:59:50 <Rebroad> I'm a bit baffled by how the number of zeros increases (i.e. less data) with each successive checkpoint..