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16 2012-04-12 00:51:29 <t7> bitcoin nodes refuse blocks from the future, right?
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19 2012-04-12 01:01:24 <ageis> yes
20 2012-04-12 01:01:31 <t7> also why hash twice?
21 2012-04-12 01:01:34 <t7> more secure?
22 2012-04-12 01:04:09 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: REALITY.SYS Corrupted: Re-boot universe? (Y/N/Q))
23 2012-04-12 01:04:48 <gmaxwell> t7: sufficiently far (2 hours) in the future
24 2012-04-12 01:05:04 plutonic has quit (Quit: plutonic)
25 2012-04-12 01:05:21 <t7> why doesnt everyone aim for ~2 hours in the future then?
26 2012-04-12 01:05:44 <gmaxwell> because it wouldn't do any good for them.
27 2012-04-12 01:05:51 <t7> ah difficulty is based on last 2 weeks txs
28 2012-04-12 01:05:54 <t7> not this week
29 2012-04-12 01:05:59 <t7> i mean this tx
30 2012-04-12 01:06:33 <sipa> difficulty is not based on transactions at all
31 2012-04-12 01:06:37 <gmaxwell> it's a maximum of .6% gain from that, and you lose that back the next cycle.
32 2012-04-12 01:06:50 <t7> blocks lol sorry
33 2012-04-12 01:07:41 <gmaxwell> e.g. if you put this block 2 hours in the future, then the this cycle will seem longer but the next will seem shorter, no net change if you average across both cycles.
34 2012-04-12 01:08:03 <gmaxwell> Also, at 2 hours out your blocks would not forward well.. not all the clocks are in sync.
35 2012-04-12 01:08:50 <sipa> still, seems to me that margin could have been chosen a lot smaller
36 2012-04-12 01:08:53 <sipa> like a few minutes
37 2012-04-12 01:08:59 <sipa> not that it matters much
38 2012-04-12 01:09:34 <luke-jr> probably meant to avoid DST trouble
39 2012-04-12 01:13:44 * sipa was not aware of any DST in unix timestamps
40 2012-04-12 01:13:52 <sipa> (but you're probably right)
41 2012-04-12 01:14:31 <gmaxwell> people frequently have their timezone/date(dst) wrong on systems but the clocks right...
42 2012-04-12 01:14:43 <gmaxwell> watching the network time come in I've seen many nodes which were almost exactly an hour off.
43 2012-04-12 01:19:26 <luke-jr> sipa: Windows uses local time for the system clock
44 2012-04-12 01:23:57 <sipa> luke-jr: i know, but why is that relevant? :)
45 2012-04-12 01:24:27 <gmaxwell> sipa: you can get awesome things like leaving the machine off across dst changes and it doesn't know if its been applied or not.
46 2012-04-12 01:24:40 <sipa> true
47 2012-04-12 01:31:11 verement has joined
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54 2012-04-12 02:05:52 <pigeons> I used to stay up until the change at 2am or whenever to see if they would replay the same tv shows
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61 2012-04-12 02:45:52 <splatster> I have a pretty serious problem.
62 2012-04-12 02:46:00 <luke-jr> we know
63 2012-04-12 02:46:07 <splatster> 100 BTC seem to have been sent without my knowing.
64 2012-04-12 02:46:14 <luke-jr> :o
65 2012-04-12 02:46:17 <splatster> I didn't import the addy or anything.
66 2012-04-12 02:46:51 <splatster> I turned on my computer and as the blocks were downloading I got a growl notification saying 100 BTC sent
67 2012-04-12 02:47:11 <luke-jr> did you leave a copy of your wallet anywhere?
68 2012-04-12 02:47:51 <Diablo-D3> splatster: I STOLE YOUR MONEIES
69 2012-04-12 02:47:55 * Diablo-D3 buys food :<
70 2012-04-12 02:48:16 <splatster> I had a copy in my dropbox, but it was encrypted with truecrypt, not in the public folder, blah blah blah.
71 2012-04-12 02:49:35 <enquirer> maybe trojan in your computer
72 2012-04-12 02:49:45 <Diablo-D3> lol macs
73 2012-04-12 02:49:58 <enquirer> stole your dropbox and tuecrypt passwords
74 2012-04-12 02:50:03 <splatster> I have a mac, and I don't download torrented software.
75 2012-04-12 02:50:13 <Diablo-D3> doesnt matter
76 2012-04-12 02:50:17 <Diablo-D3> theres a mac virus going around
77 2012-04-12 02:50:22 <luke-jr> splatster: Macs are the most vulnerable OS to hacking nowadays
78 2012-04-12 02:50:30 <Diablo-D3> it isnt a trojan
79 2012-04-12 02:50:35 <enquirer> macs are known to be contain trojans
80 2012-04-12 02:50:56 <Diablo-D3> yeah, they bust open and little steve jobs flood out
81 2012-04-12 02:51:08 <enquirer> because mac is for the blondes
82 2012-04-12 02:51:21 <splatster> Can you guys be serious about this?
83 2012-04-12 02:51:30 <Diablo-D3> nope.
84 2012-04-12 02:51:41 <enquirer> yeap
85 2012-04-12 02:51:47 <luke-jr> splatster: Diablo-D3 can't.
86 2012-04-12 02:52:13 <Diablo-D3> why did you even have 100btc?
87 2012-04-12 02:53:02 <splatster> Because I did.
88 2012-04-12 02:53:16 <enquirer> luke-jr is guilty; we would have 2 sigs already working if not for him
89 2012-04-12 02:53:43 <nanotube> enquirer: the extra discussion and deliberation were probably good.
90 2012-04-12 02:53:56 <luke-jr> enquirer: no u
91 2012-04-12 02:54:04 <nanotube> splatster: do you see that transaction in bbe etc?
92 2012-04-12 02:54:12 <nanotube> does that constitute your entire balance or just part of it?
93 2012-04-12 02:54:18 <luke-jr> enquirer: we'd have *better* multisig if BIP16 fanboys weren't so hard-headed :P
94 2012-04-12 02:54:18 <splatster> Part
95 2012-04-12 02:54:26 <splatster> bbe?
96 2012-04-12 02:54:29 <splatster> oh
97 2012-04-12 02:54:32 <nanotube> bitcoin block explorer :)
98 2012-04-12 02:54:33 <mod6> splatster: maybe ~/.bitcoin/debug.log has something to tell?
99 2012-04-12 02:54:44 <nanotube> do you recognize the destination address?
100 2012-04-12 02:55:03 <splatster> No, the destination addy is completely new to me.
101 2012-04-12 02:55:13 <splatster> Yes, it is in blockexplorer
102 2012-04-12 02:55:45 <luke-jr> splatster: txnid?
103 2012-04-12 02:59:53 <splatster> one sec
104 2012-04-12 03:00:04 <splatster> This is the addy the funds were sent to: 1AuL5JB6ykgNQzEuyWVQYw9Gh9Bh32f5C2
105 2012-04-12 03:01:11 <luke-jr> splatster: http://luke.dashjr.org/-splatster
106 2012-04-12 03:02:10 <splatster> Umm, what do I do there?
107 2012-04-12 03:02:14 <luke-jr> nothing, it's a 404
108 2012-04-12 03:02:21 <splatster> Ya
109 2012-04-12 03:02:49 <luke-jr> do you use Tor or anything?
110 2012-04-12 03:02:58 <splatster> Nope
111 2012-04-12 03:03:18 <luke-jr> is your wallet encrypted in bitcoin?
112 2012-04-12 03:03:23 <splatster> yes
113 2012-04-12 03:03:28 <luke-jr> hmmm
114 2012-04-12 03:03:39 <enquirer> are you blond?
115 2012-04-12 03:03:42 <luke-jr> you use Bitcoin-Qt?
116 2012-04-12 03:03:46 <splatster> luke-jr: yes
117 2012-04-12 03:04:13 <luke-jr> the only thing I can see as possibly happening is, you have a trojan
118 2012-04-12 03:04:21 <splatster> enquirer: I asked for you to be serious
119 2012-04-12 03:04:22 <luke-jr> splatster: when did you turn your PC on?
120 2012-04-12 03:04:49 <splatster> luke-jr: I just turned it on a half hour ago
121 2012-04-12 03:05:30 <luke-jr> splatster: when did you last unlock your wallet?
122 2012-04-12 03:05:41 <luke-jr> I presume not since booting this time?
123 2012-04-12 03:06:02 <splatster> 3 days ago
124 2012-04-12 03:06:35 <luke-jr> splatster: was your PC on at all today, before 30 mins ago?
125 2012-04-12 03:06:46 <splatster> Ya it was on this morning.
126 2012-04-12 03:07:06 <luke-jr> from what time, to what time?
127 2012-04-12 03:08:27 <enquirer> here's a free trojan scanner for macs http://www.freedrweb.com/drweb+mac+light/
128 2012-04-12 03:08:42 <splatster> From about 10 PM (23 hours ago) to 6 AM (15 hours ago)
129 2012-04-12 03:09:31 <luke-jr> OK, so this was stolen while it was off.
130 2012-04-12 03:09:41 <luke-jr> I'm going to stick to the trojan theory.
131 2012-04-12 03:10:09 <splatster> This is really, really bad
132 2012-04-12 03:10:48 <luke-jr> yes
133 2012-04-12 03:11:37 <splatster> That 100 BTC was the reserve funds for S²CM
134 2012-04-12 03:11:54 <luke-jr> splatster: know anyone in Germany?
135 2012-04-12 03:11:56 <splatster> ie. my own money meant to cover defaulting investments
136 2012-04-12 03:12:04 <splatster> luke-jr: Umm, no.
137 2012-04-12 03:12:23 <luke-jr> splatster: that's where it was transferred at
138 2012-04-12 03:12:36 <luke-jr> http://www.horlemann.de/ in fact
139 2012-04-12 03:14:37 Phoebus has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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144 2012-04-12 03:29:22 <splatster> luke-jr: It's weird that they didn't completely clear me out.
145 2012-04-12 03:29:37 <luke-jr> I concur.
146 2012-04-12 03:29:50 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
147 2012-04-12 03:31:20 <splatster> luke-jr: Maybe you could take a peek at the script that TX redeemed, could there have been something weird/wrong about it?
148 2012-04-12 03:32:44 <luke-jr> looks pretty normal
149 2012-04-12 03:35:39 bitfoo has joined
150 2012-04-12 03:41:23 <splatster> I'm still confused as to why they would only take the funds from one addy
151 2012-04-12 03:42:29 da2ce7 has joined
152 2012-04-12 03:42:58 <splatster> luke-jr: Could it be that they might have injected a key into my wallet?
153 2012-04-12 03:43:53 <luke-jr> splatster: rather unlikely without you knowing it
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162 2012-04-12 04:01:44 <splatster> luke-jr: Is it weird that the funds are just sitting there? I would think that after so many hours that they would be gone.
163 2012-04-12 04:02:00 <luke-jr> splatster: it's not been very long
164 2012-04-12 04:02:08 <luke-jr> only about 10 hours now
165 2012-04-12 04:05:38 <splatster> I have cleared out all remaining funds from my wallet and sent them to a trusted person.
166 2012-04-12 04:06:07 <splatster> So I'm gearing for reformatting the hard drive and starting completely fresh.
167 2012-04-12 04:06:09 <copumpkin> you should probably wipe your computer
168 2012-04-12 04:06:10 <copumpkin> yeah
169 2012-04-12 04:06:28 <luke-jr> I'd try to confirm the trojan first.
170 2012-04-12 04:06:32 <luke-jr> maybe dissect it
171 2012-04-12 04:06:50 <splatster> "confirm the trojan"
172 2012-04-12 04:07:01 <copumpkin> if you find it and it isn't a known thing, I wouldn't mind taking a look
173 2012-04-12 04:07:03 <splatster> Anywhere I might see some obvious signs
174 2012-04-12 04:07:10 <splatster> ok
175 2012-04-12 04:07:37 <copumpkin> check for weird processes running in the background, and I think one of them runs just as a loaded library in another program
176 2012-04-12 04:07:38 <copumpkin> "safari?"
177 2012-04-12 04:07:39 <splatster> I'm thinking about just greping for the addy
178 2012-04-12 04:08:03 <copumpkin> http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/04/05/150063548/security-company-says-about-600-000-macs-infected-with-trojan-virus
179 2012-04-12 04:08:13 <copumpkin> http://gizmodo.com/5899352/mac-flashback-trojan-find-out-if-youre-one-of-the-600000-infected
180 2012-04-12 04:08:29 <splatster> I haven't installed flash
181 2012-04-12 04:08:37 <splatster> (in the past year)
182 2012-04-12 04:08:43 <splatster> It came with the comp
183 2012-04-12 04:08:57 <lianj> ^^
184 2012-04-12 04:10:33 <doublec> splatster: it doesn't target just flash
185 2012-04-12 04:10:42 <splatster> Checked for the trojan, no signs
186 2012-04-12 04:10:48 <doublec> splatster: it can targets java vulnerability for example
187 2012-04-12 04:11:00 <splatster> Yes, I understand.
188 2012-04-12 04:11:35 <doublec> if it was a trojan I'd imagine you'd have been completely cleaned out anyway
189 2012-04-12 04:12:24 <lianj> or a kext
190 2012-04-12 04:12:39 Internet13 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
191 2012-04-12 04:14:45 <splatster> I guess I'm more worried about getting all my crap secured.
192 2012-04-12 04:14:58 <splatster> Are my GPG keys vulnerable?
193 2012-04-12 04:14:58 superjames has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
194 2012-04-12 04:16:36 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
195 2012-04-12 04:16:53 <splatster> luke-jr: ^
196 2012-04-12 04:17:24 <luke-jr> splatster: unknown.
197 2012-04-12 04:17:32 <luke-jr> splatster: depends on if you used them during the keylogging session
198 2012-04-12 04:18:14 <splatster> Yes, I did. In fact I used them to otc-auth before -qt had caught up on the blocks
199 2012-04-12 04:18:14 Internet13 has joined
200 2012-04-12 04:18:29 <BlueMatt> revoke and make new ones, Id say
201 2012-04-12 04:18:50 spq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
202 2012-04-12 04:19:20 <splatster> How can I prove that it's me who issues the new one?
203 2012-04-12 04:19:27 <splatster> (GPG ain't my thing)
204 2012-04-12 04:19:38 <BlueMatt> if your gpg key is compromised, you cant
205 2012-04-12 04:19:50 <BlueMatt> you can sign it with your old key, but if its compromised, well...
206 2012-04-12 04:19:55 <BlueMatt> still, do that,
207 2012-04-12 04:20:16 <BlueMatt> so, a. make new key, b. sign with old key, c. revoke old key
208 2012-04-12 04:20:19 <splatster> Well what's stopping someone from jumping in and claiming to be me?
209 2012-04-12 04:20:22 <BlueMatt> d. push them all to your favorite key server
210 2012-04-12 04:20:33 <splatster> ok
211 2012-04-12 04:20:37 <BlueMatt> nothing, thats why you do it now, so that later they are late to the party
212 2012-04-12 04:21:48 <splatster> Should I even do it on this comp?
213 2012-04-12 04:22:09 <BlueMatt> I wouldnt, but then...well you only lost stuff from one addr...
214 2012-04-12 04:22:16 <BlueMatt> which is...odd
215 2012-04-12 04:22:57 <luke-jr> splatster: btw, by "without you knowing it", I mean I presume you didn't import a key yourself
216 2012-04-12 04:23:29 <splatster> No, I have imported one key, however, but that was a different addy and it was some time ago.
217 2012-04-12 04:23:58 <luke-jr> do you know what addy?
218 2012-04-12 04:24:28 <splatster> Yes, the addy that I imported was my donations addy
219 2012-04-12 04:24:55 <splatster> 1PAiD5ACB37FHmLaapxU2Tj2mQCxoVvn4j <-- Kinda sorta vanity addy
220 2012-04-12 04:25:57 <splatster> BlueMatt: I'm not sure what to do. As of now I am going to backup my drive and nuke this comp ASAP
221 2012-04-12 04:26:25 <BlueMatt> backup gpg key first
222 2012-04-12 04:26:29 <BlueMatt> and other stuff, ofc
223 2012-04-12 04:27:49 superjames has joined
224 2012-04-12 04:37:45 <splatster> I'm going to have to go offline for a bit while I get everything going.
225 2012-04-12 04:38:20 <splatster> I have my phone on me, so send me an email (the one in my GPG key) if needed/urgent in the next few hours.
226 2012-04-12 04:40:06 superjames has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
227 2012-04-12 04:40:14 Internet13 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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229 2012-04-12 04:44:17 dvide has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
230 2012-04-12 04:45:55 Internet13 has joined
231 2012-04-12 04:46:05 <splatster> Well, maybe not.
232 2012-04-12 04:47:50 <splatster> The stolen funds have moved.
233 2012-04-12 04:48:25 <splatster> 20 or so minutes ago according to blockchain.info
234 2012-04-12 04:48:52 devrando1 has joined
235 2012-04-12 04:49:03 devrando1 has quit (Client Quit)
236 2012-04-12 04:49:05 <bitfoo> ouch
237 2012-04-12 04:49:09 <bitfoo> how much did you lose, splatster?
238 2012-04-12 04:49:20 <splatster> 100 BTC, *poof*
239 2012-04-12 04:49:28 <Diablo-D3> sigh
240 2012-04-12 04:49:31 <bitfoo> :(
241 2012-04-12 04:49:32 <Diablo-D3> I wish they were moving to me
242 2012-04-12 04:49:34 <Diablo-D3> but lets face it
243 2012-04-12 04:49:39 <Diablo-D3> nothing awesome like that ever happens
244 2012-04-12 04:50:07 <splatster> Diablo-D3: If they were moving to you, I would hope you would have the integrity to send them back
245 2012-04-12 04:50:18 devrando1 has joined
246 2012-04-12 04:50:21 <Diablo-D3> splatster: why?
247 2012-04-12 04:50:27 <Diablo-D3> why should I have any fucking integrity
248 2012-04-12 04:50:35 <Diablo-D3> integrity doesnt put food on the goddamned table does it
249 2012-04-12 04:50:48 devrando1 has quit (Client Quit)
250 2012-04-12 04:50:53 <Eliel> it does, actually. Just not directly.
251 2012-04-12 04:50:55 <splatster> Wow, that really makes me -not- trust you...
252 2012-04-12 04:51:17 <Diablo-D3> splatster: who cares, its not like I actually _do_ anything
253 2012-04-12 04:51:30 <splatster> If you did something like that, though, I would definitely offer you a reward and everyone would hold you up as a good person.
254 2012-04-12 04:51:41 devrando1 has joined
255 2012-04-12 04:51:50 <Diablo-D3> being a good person doesnt pay the bills.
256 2012-04-12 04:52:00 <splatster> Diablo-D3: **I Care**
257 2012-04-12 04:52:13 <Diablo-D3> CARING DOESNT PRODUCE MONEY
258 2012-04-12 04:52:28 <bitfoo> it produces happiness
259 2012-04-12 04:52:28 devrando1 has quit (Client Quit)
260 2012-04-12 04:52:38 <Diablo-D3> bitfoo: not to me it doesnt.
261 2012-04-12 04:52:56 <splatster> Diablo-D3: If you had 100 BTC stolen and they wound up with me, I would gladly send them back to you, even if I was starving
262 2012-04-12 04:52:57 <bitfoo> well, each for himself
263 2012-04-12 04:53:13 <Diablo-D3> splatster: I dont think Ive had 100 BTC in one spot for the past 2 years.
264 2012-04-12 04:53:26 <Eliel> Diablo-D3: caring makes it easier to make money. Of course, it's not the only thing that's needed.
265 2012-04-12 04:53:28 <Diablo-D3> hell, I dont think Ive EVER had 100 btc at once
266 2012-04-12 04:53:34 <splatster> Diablo-D3: Ah, sorry.
267 2012-04-12 04:54:07 superjames has joined
268 2012-04-12 04:54:12 <splatster> FYI, this addy looks somewhat active, so this person might have stolen more than just my money in this thing.
269 2012-04-12 04:55:15 dvide has joined
270 2012-04-12 04:55:19 <splatster> Stolen coins are at this addy: http://blockchain.info/address/13zrw56zQgh4oqP9xGambw5BaAS3UJy8S4
271 2012-04-12 04:55:35 <splatster> s/are at/were moved to/
272 2012-04-12 04:57:07 <MasterChief> Diablo-D3 complete lack of integrity gets you Detroit
273 2012-04-12 04:57:19 <MasterChief> enjoy your $500 real estate
274 2012-04-12 04:57:34 dvide_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
275 2012-04-12 05:00:30 verement has quit (Quit: verement)
276 2012-04-12 05:04:05 <splatster> Imma bounce in and out in a sec
277 2012-04-12 05:05:10 splatster has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
278 2012-04-12 05:05:31 splatster has joined
279 2012-04-12 05:05:38 <splatster> ok back
280 2012-04-12 05:07:35 <Cryo> how much was in your wallet
281 2012-04-12 05:07:50 <gjs278> over 9000
282 2012-04-12 05:07:53 plutonic has quit (Quit: plutonic)
283 2012-04-12 05:08:41 <splatster> gjs278: Stop trolling.
284 2012-04-12 05:08:52 <Cryo> ha, welcome to the Internet.
285 2012-04-12 05:08:57 <gjs278> splatster, what does it say about my trolling over
286 2012-04-12 05:09:01 <gjs278> [00:06] <gjs278> over 9000
287 2012-04-12 05:09:06 <gjs278> fuck
288 2012-04-12 05:09:08 <gjs278> level
289 2012-04-12 05:09:13 <Cryo> anyway, how much more than 100 was the wallet
290 2012-04-12 05:09:28 <splatster> 107.4 BTC was in the wallet, 100 BTC was stolen.
291 2012-04-12 05:09:53 <splatster> The remaining funds were sent to a trusted person.
292 2012-04-12 05:10:02 <splatster> The compromised wallet is empty.
293 2012-04-12 05:10:02 <Cryo> probably rounding to try to eliminate tracking
294 2012-04-12 05:10:12 <Cryo> if it were 107.4, that would have been easy to spot
295 2012-04-12 05:10:30 <splatster> I know the addy it was sent to, Cryo
296 2012-04-12 05:10:36 <splatster> I'm watching it right now.
297 2012-04-12 05:10:38 <Cryo> yeh, but there's nothing you can do
298 2012-04-12 05:11:03 <luke-jr> splatster: have you done the police report yet?
299 2012-04-12 05:11:07 <splatster> Ya, and there's nothing I could've done if they had stolen 107.4 BTC, either.
300 2012-04-12 05:11:12 <splatster> luke-jr: No.
301 2012-04-12 05:11:24 <splatster> And I hope you're joking.
302 2012-04-12 05:12:57 <splatster> luke-jr: Not sure if you saw, but the coins were moved off to a different addy, and it looks like the addy has been used for laundering in the past. Addy is 13zrw56zQgh4oqP9xGambw5BaAS3UJy8S4
303 2012-04-12 05:13:00 <Cryo> make sure you get the java 2012 -002 update from apple
304 2012-04-12 05:13:54 <sturles> Sounds like another dropbox victim to me. How strong was the passphrase?
305 2012-04-12 05:13:56 <Cryo> nice round numbers
306 2012-04-12 05:13:59 <splatster> Cryo: I'm nuking this comp. Right now I'm running salvage and backup and getting ready to start with a completely fresh install.
307 2012-04-12 05:14:12 <MasterChief> dropbox victim?
308 2012-04-12 05:14:24 <Cryo> you kept your wallet on dropbox?
309 2012-04-12 05:15:12 wasabi1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
310 2012-04-12 05:15:20 <splatster> sturles: Strong enough that it takes me a decent amount of time to type it. It has caps, numbers, symbols, abreviations, inside jokes from college, shit that can't be brute forced.
311 2012-04-12 05:16:10 <splatster> Cryo: A backup, yes. But it was encrypted many times over.
312 2012-04-12 05:17:34 <splatster> No passphrase is strong enough to beat a keylogger, though.
313 2012-04-12 05:18:17 <midnightmagic> splatster: the whole point of a revocation is that anyone with the secret key can revoke, and it doesn't matter that the secret key is compromised. there's no point at all in signing the new key, the signature will be marked as invalid as soon as other gnupg people receive your revocation. to properly reintroduce the new key, the idea is to enter it via the WoT: the other people who know you and sign keys in person and vouch for
314 2012-04-12 05:18:24 <midnightmagic> you.
315 2012-04-12 05:19:15 <midnightmagic> and then, again ideally, everyone is connected enough that the people here can verify through the wot sigs that the new key is yours.
316 2012-04-12 05:19:40 <Cryo> from now on, generate a revocation key
317 2012-04-12 05:19:42 <splatster> How can I prove me to be me without my GPG?
318 2012-04-12 05:19:52 <Cryo> same way you got people to sign it before
319 2012-04-12 05:20:40 <splatster> Revoking the key isn't that urgent, so I'd rather do it later just in case
320 2012-04-12 05:20:43 <Cryo> since you're on the machine, can you pastebin a few things for me?
321 2012-04-12 05:20:46 <midnightmagic> splatster: in person is best, with people you know. if you didn't know anyone you can phone and verify fingerprints with.. like a brother or friend or something..
322 2012-04-12 05:20:50 da2ce7 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
323 2012-04-12 05:22:01 da2ce7 has joined
324 2012-04-12 05:22:03 <Cryo> kextstat -l and ps -fecl
325 2012-04-12 05:22:15 <Cryo> see if there's anything that's easily spotted
326 2012-04-12 05:22:29 <splatster> ok
327 2012-04-12 05:25:10 <Cryo> my key is ancient, I have to open a crypt and beat a mummy to death
328 2012-04-12 05:25:34 <splatster> Cryo: Nothing there is at all suspicious.
329 2012-04-12 05:25:58 wasabi1 has joined
330 2012-04-12 05:26:08 <splatster> I've already combed through each process and it's open files/ports
331 2012-04-12 05:26:09 <midnightmagic> Cryo: well long as you don't have to burn the crypt, because then you'd have to start making demos
332 2012-04-12 05:28:08 <Cryo> I should check if my signers are even still alive.
333 2012-04-12 05:28:10 <Cryo> heh
334 2012-04-12 05:28:32 <midnightmagic> i would have loved to have fred fish' sig on an old key.
335 2012-04-12 05:28:40 <midnightmagic> oh well
336 2012-04-12 05:28:47 <Cryo> oh man, that's a name I haven't heard in ages. I miss him.
337 2012-04-12 05:29:19 <Cryo> though he apologized for typoing cryoutils into cyroutils
338 2012-04-12 05:31:53 <Cryo> splat, if you can't find anything, I'd be hard-pressed to proclaim you have a 0-day, since you did have a backup on dropbox.. that would be a potential culprit. If dropbox would provide access logs to that file, it might help find out if you were really compromised on your system
339 2012-04-12 05:32:00 _Fireball has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
340 2012-04-12 05:32:41 _Fireball has joined
341 2012-04-12 05:33:06 rcorreia has joined
342 2012-04-12 05:33:23 <splatster> Cryo: I'm far less concerned about the source of the compromise than I am of limiting the damage
343 2012-04-12 05:33:50 rcorreia_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
344 2012-04-12 05:34:32 <MasterChief> if you dont know how you got fucked how can you prevent it next time
345 2012-04-12 05:34:41 <Cryo> maybe bitcoin keys need signatures too :)
346 2012-04-12 05:34:59 <BlueMatt> 2-factor auth is coming
347 2012-04-12 05:35:08 <splatster> MasterChief: By not handling anything important on this comp.
348 2012-04-12 05:35:34 <luke-jr> Cryo: if the wallet wasn't encrypted, I'd say Dropbox is certain
349 2012-04-12 05:35:42 <MasterChief> i think the security myth of mac is coming to an end
350 2012-04-12 05:35:48 <luke-jr> the real question is, how did someone get his passphrase without a keylogger?
351 2012-04-12 05:35:52 <splatster> 100 BTC is only $500. Don't get me wrong, I'm pissed, but I could've had my identity stolen and my bank account hacked.
352 2012-04-12 05:35:55 <Cryo> I never believed that myth anyway :)
353 2012-04-12 05:36:16 <Cryo> or you could be arrested for child pron
354 2012-04-12 05:36:27 <Cryo> all sorts of things people can do on your machine to make your life hell.
355 2012-04-12 05:36:29 <MasterChief> maybe theres a 0day in the wallet encryption
356 2012-04-12 05:36:34 <splatster> luke-jr: The wallet does wind up in memory when it is unlocked, correct?
357 2012-04-12 05:36:57 <Cryo> unless mac and pc are treated differently
358 2012-04-12 05:36:58 <luke-jr> splatster: but you didn't unlock it around the time of the theft
359 2012-04-12 05:37:04 <Cryo> you'd see a rash of thefts
360 2012-04-12 05:37:19 <Diablo-D3> we just dont knoiw about it yet
361 2012-04-12 05:37:28 <splatster> I did unlock it soon after I rebooted my comp.
362 2012-04-12 05:37:31 <Cryo> that's comforting :)
363 2012-04-12 05:37:36 <luke-jr> splatster: you said 3 days ago.
364 2012-04-12 05:37:37 barmstrong has joined
365 2012-04-12 05:37:47 <luke-jr> plus, it occured at 7:15 PM UTC
366 2012-04-12 05:37:49 <splatster> And if -qt has a memory leak...
367 2012-04-12 05:38:08 <Cryo> yeh, about -qt⦠I need free time to fix that.
368 2012-04-12 05:38:19 <splatster> luke-jr: My comp was off at that time.
369 2012-04-12 05:38:26 <luke-jr> splatster: my point exactly.
370 2012-04-12 05:38:30 <luke-jr> splatster: also, that's not a leak.
371 2012-04-12 05:38:37 <luke-jr> it's impossible to use keys without decrypting them in memory.
372 2012-04-12 05:39:14 <splatster> luke-jr: Bottom line is that my computer is infected.
373 2012-04-12 05:39:17 <splatster> Period.
374 2012-04-12 05:39:47 <splatster> With what, I don't know. How, I don't know. The extent of the damage, I don't know.
375 2012-04-12 05:39:56 <splatster> I do know that I have to nuke it ASAP.
376 2012-04-12 05:40:09 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: actually i think it might be possible to use them without decrypting them..
377 2012-04-12 05:40:32 <splatster> I'm making a clone for probing purposes and then this disk is gonna be zeroed out to hell.
378 2012-04-12 05:40:46 <midnightmagic> splatster: remember! only one pass is enough!
379 2012-04-12 05:41:01 <Cryo> meh, dd is faster
380 2012-04-12 05:41:46 <splatster> I think I might see about flashing the firmware, too.
381 2012-04-12 05:41:51 <copumpkin> has anyone considered setting up a non-profit "bitcoin foundation" that we can donate to (in a tax-exempt manner, with USD, or just with btc) to fund research and advance the project as a whole?
382 2012-04-12 05:42:04 <Cryo> flashing what firmware? what kind of mac is this? :)
383 2012-04-12 05:42:12 <midnightmagic> copumpkin: lots and often, even back to Dec '10 or so.
384 2012-04-12 05:42:31 <luke-jr> Cryo: every PC has firmware to flash.
385 2012-04-12 05:42:32 <splatster> Cryo: Macs have firmware. Firmware is essential to what makes a computer run.
386 2012-04-12 05:42:32 <copumpkin> did anything come of it? were there specific objections, or just nobody wants to deal with the legal shit?
387 2012-04-12 05:42:41 <Cryo> copumpkin, I think it would be more likely with a 1.0.0 release to show the group is "serious"
388 2012-04-12 05:42:50 <midnightmagic> splatster: if you're going that far, technically your ethernet card is a vector too. don't go too paranoid.
389 2012-04-12 05:42:52 <Cryo> splat, really? :)
390 2012-04-12 05:43:08 <copumpkin> Cryo: yep
391 2012-04-12 05:43:18 <midnightmagic> lol..
392 2012-04-12 05:43:32 <brwyatt> Don't newer Macs pretty much have OSX installed in Firmware?
393 2012-04-12 05:43:33 <Cryo> and USB fobs, and and and
394 2012-04-12 05:43:37 <brwyatt> At least a small amount?
395 2012-04-12 05:43:38 <copumpkin> brwyatt: not really :P
396 2012-04-12 05:43:48 <Cryo> no, that's the emergency/rescue partition
397 2012-04-12 05:43:49 <midnightmagic> Cryo: well I still remember who you are dude. :)
398 2012-04-12 05:43:53 <copumpkin> they have EFI
399 2012-04-12 05:43:53 <splatster> brwyatt: Kinda, not really
400 2012-04-12 05:43:59 <splatster> they have efi
401 2012-04-12 05:44:03 <splatster> damn
402 2012-04-12 05:44:04 <Cryo> midnightmagic, oh you're an old fart? refresh my brain!
403 2012-04-12 05:44:08 <brwyatt> If you boot it with a blank drive, it will connect to your network and download OSX from Apple or from your Time Capsule, won't it?
404 2012-04-12 05:44:12 <splatster> copumpkin beat me to it.
405 2012-04-12 05:44:13 <Cryo> I've lost so many braincells since back then
406 2012-04-12 05:44:27 <MasterChief> back in my day we called it bios
407 2012-04-12 05:44:42 <splatster> Apple has released updates that actually flash the EFI in the past.
408 2012-04-12 05:44:50 <midnightmagic> it's okay i'm in a new name you're not forgetting anything.
409 2012-04-12 05:44:54 <copumpkin> MasterChief: now it can connect to secured wi-fi networks :P
410 2012-04-12 05:45:08 <brwyatt> I think someone also found that Macs will connect to open WiFi networks in their pre-boot state too, won't they? I remember something about that... it involved an interesting UEFI memory bug.
411 2012-04-12 05:45:18 <splatster> EFI makes it look pretty :)
412 2012-04-12 05:45:36 <copumpkin> brwyatt: there's explicit support for it, especially now with the macbook airs
413 2012-04-12 05:45:40 <copumpkin> but it was there before
414 2012-04-12 05:45:44 <copumpkin> and I do remember it being exploitable
415 2012-04-12 05:46:08 <brwyatt> There are a lot of unpatched exploitable goodies.
416 2012-04-12 05:46:13 <MasterChief> so yah whats wrong with dropbox for wallets
417 2012-04-12 05:46:37 <splatster> copumpkin: I don't even remember how many times they have had an EFI update...
418 2012-04-12 05:46:43 <Cryo> there isn't enough encryption for me to put it on S3 or Dropbox
419 2012-04-12 05:47:07 <copumpkin> Cryo: rot13 60000 times
420 2012-04-12 05:47:07 <MasterChief> its AES
421 2012-04-12 05:47:18 <brwyatt> copumpkin: LOL
422 2012-04-12 05:47:30 <copumpkin> this is where the beauty of involutions comes in
423 2012-04-12 05:47:31 <Cryo> I'll take truecrypt on a dmg on a usb fob
424 2012-04-12 05:47:37 <Cryo> no way.. ROT26
425 2012-04-12 05:47:43 <Cryo> easier to remember the password.
426 2012-04-12 05:47:49 <splatster> copumpkin: No, I think rot26 30000 times would be better :P
427 2012-04-12 05:47:56 <copumpkin> oh ok :)
428 2012-04-12 05:48:02 <Cryo> 2x the rotation! must be more secure!
429 2012-04-12 05:48:32 <BlueMatt> openssl aes-256-cbc -d -in infile -out outfile
430 2012-04-12 05:48:40 <BlueMatt> easy as pie
431 2012-04-12 05:48:48 <copumpkin> pfft, cbc
432 2012-04-12 05:48:56 <copumpkin> real hax0rz use ecb
433 2012-04-12 05:49:12 <Cryo> but aes...
434 2012-04-12 05:49:27 <BlueMatt> copumpkin: yea...
435 2012-04-12 05:50:16 <Cryo> I'm tired of openssl having vulns too
436 2012-04-12 05:50:25 <BlueMatt> its plain aes
437 2012-04-12 05:50:38 <MasterChief> so yah whats wrong with dropbox for wallets really?
438 2012-04-12 05:50:54 <copumpkin> nothing, just don't symlink straight to your dropbox dir
439 2012-04-12 05:50:54 <BlueMatt> i have never heard of a vuln in plain aes methods in ossl...
440 2012-04-12 05:51:20 luke-jr has quit (Excess Flood)
441 2012-04-12 05:51:38 luke-jr has joined
442 2012-04-12 05:51:45 <splatster> Just for kicks I looked at MD2 on wikipedia: "Although MD2 is no longer considered secure, even as of 2010 it remains in use in public key infrastructures as part of certificates generated with MD2 and RSA."
443 2012-04-12 05:51:45 <MasterChief> an encrypted wallet is enver saved decrypted again though right
444 2012-04-12 05:51:46 <Eliel> MasterChief: nothing wrong as such, it's just quite easy to leak your wallet to someone who shouldn't have it that way :P
445 2012-04-12 05:51:47 phma has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
446 2012-04-12 05:52:53 <MasterChief> how though
447 2012-04-12 05:52:58 <phantomcircuit> splatster, MD2 is used by a good number of root certificates still
448 2012-04-12 05:53:15 <splatster> phantomcircuit: Am I the only who finds that... sad?
449 2012-04-12 05:53:23 <phantomcircuit> nope
450 2012-04-12 05:53:32 <phantomcircuit> but i've never been able to think of a way to exploit it
451 2012-04-12 05:53:33 <phantomcircuit> so
452 2012-04-12 05:53:34 <phantomcircuit> meh
453 2012-04-12 05:54:25 * splatster imagines if bitcoin were based off of MD2
454 2012-04-12 05:54:57 <Diablo-D3> we'd be done mining them by the end of the week.
455 2012-04-12 05:55:00 <copumpkin> some certs use nice exponents of 3, too
456 2012-04-12 05:55:06 <copumpkin> anyone ever implemented the bleichenbacher attack?
457 2012-04-12 05:55:19 <Diablo-D3> copumpkin: I wish someone would explain why the fuck an exponent of 3 is bad
458 2012-04-12 05:55:30 <Diablo-D3> because all I heard was some really bad WAAAAARGBLe
459 2012-04-12 05:55:42 <copumpkin> it's actually how we did the first iphone unlock
460 2012-04-12 05:55:59 <copumpkin> let me find you the original email about it
461 2012-04-12 05:57:11 <Cryo> heh, waarglbe gif of skydiver⦠most enlightening.
462 2012-04-12 05:59:13 <copumpkin> hmm, the email I used to refer to for it is nowhere to be found
463 2012-04-12 05:59:28 <Diablo-D3> copumpkin: <3 the fucking tubes
464 2012-04-12 06:00:03 <splatster> For MD4, "generating a collision is now as cheap as verifying it."
465 2012-04-12 06:00:11 <copumpkin> but basically it boils down to the fact that if you don't enforce the padding requirements on RSA (as many homegrown implementations, like those in modem firmwares, did), simply cubing the number won't necessarily cause you to "roll over" your modulus
466 2012-04-12 06:00:16 <copumpkin> you can pad the rest with junk
467 2012-04-12 06:00:40 <Diablo-D3> you know, that'd be a hilarious way of doing bitcoin
468 2012-04-12 06:00:41 <copumpkin> and sign things that should not have been signed, assuming the checker does not check the padding
469 2012-04-12 06:00:50 <Diablo-D3> take a collidable algo
470 2012-04-12 06:00:57 <Diablo-D3> diff is now producing x collisions
471 2012-04-12 06:01:36 <copumpkin> not sure if we used exactly bleichenbacher's attack, but it was basically taking advantage of what I described
472 2012-04-12 06:01:48 <copumpkin> (higher exponents would cause your modulus to actually become relevant)
473 2012-04-12 06:02:14 <copumpkin> 74^3 mod 10000000 is just 74^3, basically
474 2012-04-12 06:04:06 <Diablo-D3> ffffffffffff
475 2012-04-12 06:04:09 <Diablo-D3> thats _bad_
476 2012-04-12 06:04:57 <copumpkin> yeah, and it's actually made worse by higher-bit keys
477 2012-04-12 06:05:07 <copumpkin> since a bigger modulus gives you more room to screw around with
478 2012-04-12 06:05:47 <Diablo-D3> ppl r dum
479 2012-04-12 06:06:00 <copumpkin> so, usual advice applies: don't roll your own crypto, or if you do, make sure you understand why all the bits and pieces (like the fancy padding schemes in RSA) are in place
480 2012-04-12 06:06:16 <copumpkin> but really, just don't roll your own crypto :P
481 2012-04-12 06:06:19 <Diablo-D3> rolling your own crypto isnt even that bad
482 2012-04-12 06:06:29 <Diablo-D3> just make sure you understand the code you're cribbing off of
483 2012-04-12 06:06:35 <copumpkin> yeah, I guess :)
484 2012-04-12 06:06:41 <copumpkin> I guess it depends on the purpose of the crypto
485 2012-04-12 06:07:32 <copumpkin> if it's the kind of stuff that might be susceptible to timing or other side-channel attacks, you probably want to stick to something tried and tested
486 2012-04-12 06:07:56 <copumpkin> if it's just offline sig checking or stuff that doesn't have access to sensitive data, you can probably roll your own if you're careful
487 2012-04-12 06:08:39 <copumpkin> Diablo-D3: speaking of dum, do you know the major ingredient that made the Wii hackable?
488 2012-04-12 06:09:00 <Diablo-D3> japanese schoolgirls?
489 2012-04-12 06:09:01 <Cryo> people?
490 2012-04-12 06:09:03 <copumpkin> lol
491 2012-04-12 06:09:18 <copumpkin> they used strcmp on binary hash output to make sure you were legit
492 2012-04-12 06:09:28 <Diablo-D3> bfsdzhfdssgsdgsdtgwsetwstgg
493 2012-04-12 06:09:30 <Diablo-D3> eatgatawrtaetydudestusrusruy
494 2012-04-12 06:09:32 <Diablo-D3> wyteysysysrhysryhsrshysyhs
495 2012-04-12 06:09:52 <Diablo-D3> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW5CapRMkGQ
496 2012-04-12 06:09:56 <Diablo-D3> this is what I feel like right now
497 2012-04-12 06:09:57 <copumpkin> so you just needed to brute force until you found a hash that matched an arbitrarily short prefix + \0 of the verification key
498 2012-04-12 06:10:14 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
499 2012-04-12 06:10:15 <copumpkin> lol
500 2012-04-12 06:10:18 <splatster> Wow... just wow.
501 2012-04-12 06:12:02 <copumpkin> and the PS3 implemented all their crypto correctly except that their PRNG always spat out the same value
502 2012-04-12 06:12:24 <copumpkin> lots of gems out there
503 2012-04-12 06:12:36 <Diablo-D3> int rand() { return 3; }
504 2012-04-12 06:12:40 <splatster> Should I have Gox mark the coins as stolen? (I don't know if they even do anything about heists of coins)
505 2012-04-12 06:12:52 <Diablo-D3> splatster: just leave it be.
506 2012-04-12 06:12:54 <copumpkin> splatster: I think MagicalTux usually asks for a police report
507 2012-04-12 06:12:59 <Diablo-D3> yeah or that
508 2012-04-12 06:13:01 <splatster> ah.
509 2012-04-12 06:13:11 <copumpkin> meaning he probably won't mark them as stolen unless you show him one
510 2012-04-12 06:13:52 <splatster> $500 isn't even worth the time of dealing with the cops and having a 0 chance of getting them back
511 2012-04-12 06:14:37 <copumpkin> yeah, frustrating though. Sorry it happened to you :/
512 2012-04-12 06:15:06 wasabi1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
513 2012-04-12 06:15:32 <splatster> Ya, I don't think I'll even be keeping anything important on my fresh install besides a copy of my GPG key.
514 2012-04-12 06:16:34 <MasterChief> what does marking coins as stolen do
515 2012-04-12 06:16:43 <splatster> Also, that's the other thing about BTC for me: all of the money I have in BTC, I didn't expect to have in the first place.
516 2012-04-12 06:17:01 <splatster> MasterChief: Not much other than that gox won't take them.
517 2012-04-12 06:19:05 <Eliel> gox will take them allright, they'll just not accept your being anonymous after that. As in, your account will be frozen until you provide identification.
518 2012-04-12 06:19:43 <splatster> Regardless, it isn't worth it.
519 2012-04-12 06:21:10 <splatster> Kinda sad to have my TX history go, though. :/
520 2012-04-12 06:23:36 <MasterChief> umm what if you randomly end up with marked coins
521 2012-04-12 06:25:44 <splatster> Anybody have some freelancing that pays 100 BTC ;)
522 2012-04-12 06:26:33 <splatster> JK, I'll earn it back like I earned all my coins in the first place.
523 2012-04-12 06:26:42 <MasterChief> so exchanges are policing bitcoin now?
524 2012-04-12 06:27:04 <[Tycho]> Some of them.
525 2012-04-12 06:27:11 <[Tycho]> ICBIT doesn't :)
526 2012-04-12 06:27:28 <gjs278> when I got scammed 16 coins
527 2012-04-12 06:27:31 <gjs278> back at the $18 level
528 2012-04-12 06:27:38 <gjs278> I found the guy's work and emailed him there
529 2012-04-12 06:27:38 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: does ICBIT comply with the relevant regulations?
530 2012-04-12 06:27:43 <gjs278> and his boss answered and he was fired
531 2012-04-12 06:27:48 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: what regulations ?
532 2012-04-12 06:27:55 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: standard banking regulations
533 2012-04-12 06:28:02 <luke-jr> KYC and such
534 2012-04-12 06:28:04 <MasterChief> shitty noss
535 2012-04-12 06:28:12 <[Tycho]> Currently we don't care about banking regulations.
536 2012-04-12 06:28:16 <gjs278> he actually paid me back 4 of the coins too
537 2012-04-12 06:28:20 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: so you operate illegally?
538 2012-04-12 06:28:24 <[Tycho]> Especially about KYC.
539 2012-04-12 06:28:25 <Cryo> meh KYC
540 2012-04-12 06:28:35 <Cryo> should mean keep your cash
541 2012-04-12 06:28:36 <gjs278> pretty sure tycho is russia
542 2012-04-12 06:28:38 <gjs278> or something
543 2012-04-12 06:28:44 <luke-jr> gjs278: so?
544 2012-04-12 06:28:51 <gjs278> so how would kyc apply to him
545 2012-04-12 06:28:59 <gjs278> only the c's in this case would be doing something wrong
546 2012-04-12 06:29:00 <luke-jr> Russia probably has KYC regulations
547 2012-04-12 06:29:03 <gjs278> maybe
548 2012-04-12 06:29:04 <[Tycho]> I'm not in USA, we don't have anything named KYC.
549 2012-04-12 06:29:07 <JFK911> I've never had KYC problems at a real bank. I'm pretty sure that's a scam for mtgox to trim their reserve fraction
550 2012-04-12 06:29:14 <MasterChief> because TEAM AMERICA WORLD POLICE
551 2012-04-12 06:29:26 <luke-jr> JFK911: you've never shown ID to your real bank?
552 2012-04-12 06:29:41 <[Tycho]> And the exchange is not operating in USA or Russia. Why would I follow those regulations ?
553 2012-04-12 06:29:45 <luke-jr> even if Russia doesn't have KYC regulations, US regulations apply if they do business with people in the US
554 2012-04-12 06:29:50 <gjs278> I just guessed russia
555 2012-04-12 06:29:57 <JFK911> Actually, my current banking arrangement has never seen my ID, and they have no physical address for me.
556 2012-04-12 06:30:08 <gjs278> tycho is currently on the moon, he was able to pay for a space shuttle with deepbit earnings
557 2012-04-12 06:30:20 <luke-jr> JFK911: I bet they have you flagged as "showed ID" on paper, at least.
558 2012-04-12 06:30:28 <JFK911> If they do, I didn't.
559 2012-04-12 06:30:35 <luke-jr> gjs278: regardless, doing business in the USA subjects you to USA regulations
560 2012-04-12 06:30:41 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: ok, so if you are US citizen and you can't use any service that don't have your ID then you may don't use it.
561 2012-04-12 06:30:49 <MasterChief> i bet he could buy glorious peoples buran shuttle
562 2012-04-12 06:31:03 <gjs278> good luck extraditing him
563 2012-04-12 06:31:13 <gjs278> they'll have agents just kill him in his sleep
564 2012-04-12 06:31:20 <gjs278> or lord of war him
565 2012-04-12 06:31:20 <luke-jr> XD
566 2012-04-12 06:31:23 <JFK911> yeah and i'd like to see mtgox get burned for not sending 1099's
567 2012-04-12 06:31:32 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: it doesnt work that way
568 2012-04-12 06:31:36 <JFK911> theres no regulation
569 2012-04-12 06:31:40 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: and mtgox wouldnt be able to send 1099s
570 2012-04-12 06:31:47 <Diablo-D3> bitcoins, financially, do not exist
571 2012-04-12 06:31:51 <luke-jr> JFK911: you didn't get your 1099?
572 2012-04-12 06:31:54 <Diablo-D3> and I dont think you meant 1099 either
573 2012-04-12 06:31:57 <JFK911> there are dollars in and dollars out
574 2012-04-12 06:32:01 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3: so this means that I should ban all US IPs ? :)
575 2012-04-12 06:32:02 <JFK911> i got no 1099
576 2012-04-12 06:32:09 <gjs278> you shouldnt have
577 2012-04-12 06:32:13 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: and most countries
578 2012-04-12 06:32:15 <JFK911> mtgox would email it to me or what? lol
579 2012-04-12 06:32:21 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: yes, unless you want your bank accounts closed and your house bombed by drone
580 2012-04-12 06:32:29 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: and the deepbit domain stolenm
581 2012-04-12 06:32:30 <gjs278> yes you are going to be droned one day
582 2012-04-12 06:32:43 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: it doesn't work that way.
583 2012-04-12 06:32:47 <luke-jr> yes it does
584 2012-04-12 06:32:56 <gjs278> you will be droned, then we will be droned for knowing you
585 2012-04-12 06:33:33 plutonic has joined
586 2012-04-12 06:33:34 <[Tycho]> luke-jr: ok. Forget about the exchange :)
587 2012-04-12 06:33:44 <JFK911> mtgox could 1099 if they wanted to, but they never collected any information from me that they'd need to do it
588 2012-04-12 06:33:54 <MasterChief> theyll take your domain minimum
589 2012-04-12 06:33:57 <JFK911> 1099 is just EDI
590 2012-04-12 06:34:06 <luke-jr> JFK911: have you used MtGox in a way that trigger their requirement to mail a 1099?
591 2012-04-12 06:34:20 <JFK911> i got many USD from it
592 2012-04-12 06:34:26 <gjs278> you can report it yourself really
593 2012-04-12 06:34:27 <JFK911> enough to buy a new car
594 2012-04-12 06:34:30 <gjs278> you dont need them to
595 2012-04-12 06:34:33 <luke-jr> JFK911: pretty sure you need a minimum withdrawl per month, or balance
596 2012-04-12 06:34:50 <luke-jr> JFK911: specifically, the maximums they let you withdraw without verifying
597 2012-04-12 06:34:54 <JFK911> i think the IRS will tell you its some dollars during a year
598 2012-04-12 06:35:13 <gjs278> the dollars is how much you made
599 2012-04-12 06:35:30 <gjs278> if you really only had bitcoins the only time I dont know what you'd have to do
600 2012-04-12 06:35:35 <luke-jr> JFK911: in other words, you *can't* trigger a 1099 requirement for them, unless you first provide the info they need to comply
601 2012-04-12 06:35:51 <JFK911> i've been 1099'd for less
602 2012-04-12 06:35:58 <luke-jr> optional != required
603 2012-04-12 06:36:15 <JFK911> now why would an accountant waste time with something he doesn't need?
604 2012-04-12 06:36:16 <Diablo-D3> yeah, theres a $400/no limit
605 2012-04-12 06:36:19 <luke-jr> I'm sure companies are free to send you a 1099 for any amount
606 2012-04-12 06:36:30 <luke-jr> JFK911: accountant? 1099s are most likely 100% computer automated.
607 2012-04-12 06:36:39 <Diablo-D3> you wont get a 1099 for less than $5
608 2012-04-12 06:36:46 m00p has joined
609 2012-04-12 06:36:59 <JFK911> it's EDI, but those datasets have to be audited in the future.
610 2012-04-12 06:40:45 cdecker has joined
611 2012-04-12 06:42:54 <JFK911> anyway, i'm done. i quit selling bitcoin related stuff
612 2012-04-12 06:43:34 <JFK911> my lawyer told me that because i know that silkroad exists and have a general idea of what it does, i could be liable to some federal law about helping people buy drugs on the internet
613 2012-04-12 06:43:47 <JFK911> by doing anything to further it
614 2012-04-12 06:44:08 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: yes, but then you can also no longer use tor, computers, the internet, USD
615 2012-04-12 06:44:20 <Diablo-D3> infact, even having water available is in violation of this law
616 2012-04-12 06:44:28 <Diablo-D3> water is often used in the manufacturing of drugs
617 2012-04-12 06:45:04 <JFK911> have you ever fought against the DoJ?
618 2012-04-12 06:45:12 <JFK911> it seems like something you want to do?
619 2012-04-12 06:46:29 <JFK911> for me, after having received this advice, setting up a mining pool or exchange would be much more dangerous for me than running "buywateronline.com"
620 2012-04-12 06:46:55 <Cryo> buy oil online!
621 2012-04-12 06:48:02 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: you'd be surprised
622 2012-04-12 06:48:09 <Diablo-D3> if the government wants to end you, _they dont need a reason_
623 2012-04-12 06:48:11 <JFK911> well, that's the nature of courts
624 2012-04-12 06:48:21 <Diablo-D3> everything you do is illegal according to federal law
625 2012-04-12 06:48:42 <JFK911> if you want to feed them, go right ahead, but i think it is a bad idea
626 2012-04-12 06:48:55 <splatster> "BuyWaterOnline.com is for sale (Buy Water Online) Click here to buy BuyWaterOnline.com for $2,695"
627 2012-04-12 06:49:01 <JFK911> haha $2700
628 2012-04-12 06:49:05 <Diablo-D3> wat
629 2012-04-12 06:49:05 <splatster> *facepalm*
630 2012-04-12 06:49:16 <JFK911> how about eWater.com ?
631 2012-04-12 06:49:18 <splatster> http://buywateronline.com/
632 2012-04-12 06:49:52 <splatster> JFK911: Yup, It's a real site, not for sale
633 2012-04-12 06:50:10 <JFK911> omg HAARP banner
634 2012-04-12 06:50:22 <JFK911> i see, it's water accessories, not water.
635 2012-04-12 06:50:28 <mod6> maybe waterforbitco.in
636 2012-04-12 06:50:50 <mod6> heheh
637 2012-04-12 06:51:04 zeiris_ has quit (Quit: segfault)
638 2012-04-12 06:51:22 zeiris has joined
639 2012-04-12 06:52:17 <gjs278> irc is probably illega
640 2012-04-12 06:52:19 <gjs278> l
641 2012-04-12 06:52:30 <JFK911> depends on what you do with it
642 2012-04-12 06:52:47 <splatster> This chat we are having right now is legal
643 2012-04-12 06:53:02 <gjs278> implyiing jfk did 9/11 is illegal
644 2012-04-12 06:53:29 <JFK911> ok smart guy, then who was the 20th hijacker?
645 2012-04-12 06:53:52 <Diablo-D3> john f kennedy
646 2012-04-12 06:53:57 <mod6> successful troll #20?
647 2012-04-12 06:54:15 <gjs278> you should ask your lawyer if you could get in trouble for your username
648 2012-04-12 06:54:21 <gjs278> I bet he could find a reason
649 2012-04-12 06:54:29 <JFK911> it had to be him. jackie said it wasn't his body lying in state
650 2012-04-12 06:54:41 <JFK911> if she were still here she'd tell us again
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658 2012-04-12 07:33:30 Snapman is now known as Snapman[afkers]
659 2012-04-12 07:35:50 <Graet> <gjs278> implyiing jfk did 9/11 is illegal << not in my country...
660 2012-04-12 07:35:52 capiscuas has joined
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662 2012-04-12 07:38:07 Snapman[afkers] is now known as Snapman
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668 2012-04-12 07:43:48 <gjs278> Graet what country are you in
669 2012-04-12 07:44:13 <gjs278> there's a 50% chance I may go to jail for just denying the holocause where you live
670 2012-04-12 07:44:49 <Graet> mm nup
671 2012-04-12 07:44:55 <Graet> guess again....
672 2012-04-12 07:46:21 <gjs278> keep that place a secret before it is ruined then
673 2012-04-12 07:46:32 <Graet> lol
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681 2012-04-12 08:21:00 pumpkin is now known as copumpkin
682 2012-04-12 08:26:24 <Joric> oddly enough but germany provides the most serious punishment against denying the holocaust
683 2012-04-12 08:30:00 <Joric> luckily you can't be sued in US due to the 1st amendment
684 2012-04-12 08:32:02 <MasterChief> why shouldnt people be able to deny the holocaust
685 2012-04-12 08:32:09 <MasterChief> everyone else is free to ostracise them
686 2012-04-12 08:32:22 <MasterChief> making freedom of speech exceptions is how it always starts
687 2012-04-12 08:35:12 Joric has quit ()
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689 2012-04-12 09:04:00 <da2ce7> sipa: how is you HD Wallet spec comming along?
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788 2012-04-12 13:28:02 <vvfff> bmr isnt working
789 2012-04-12 13:28:14 da2ce7 has joined
790 2012-04-12 13:32:02 PiZZaMaN2K is now known as PiZZaMaN2K|away
791 2012-04-12 13:32:08 <vvfff> helo?
792 2012-04-12 13:32:23 <alephozee> bmr?
793 2012-04-12 13:33:35 <helo> ?
794 2012-04-12 13:34:32 <vvfff> black market reloaded
795 2012-04-12 13:43:47 PiZZaMaN2K is now known as away!~PiZZaMaN2@host-72-2-137-170.csinet.net|PiZZaMaN2K
796 2012-04-12 13:44:29 <Graet> so what?
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814 2012-04-12 15:07:15 <gavinandresen> Just me, or broken for everybody: src/qt/bitcoingui.cpp:391: error: âopenBitcoinActionâ was not declared in this scope
815 2012-04-12 15:13:04 Joric_ has joined
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818 2012-04-12 15:13:06 <sipa> works here
819 2012-04-12 15:13:37 <gavinandresen> it's an #ifdef MAC thing
820 2012-04-12 15:13:58 <gavinandresen> I'll push a fix in a minute....
821 2012-04-12 15:14:03 * luke-jr can't believe there are pages of people aruging over where to put protocol version constants.
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825 2012-04-12 15:21:02 <jgarzik> hrm
826 2012-04-12 15:21:22 <jgarzik> the build tree is growing a bunch of tiny .h files, several under 50 lines
827 2012-04-12 15:21:30 <jgarzik> that wants consolidation
828 2012-04-12 15:21:55 <jgarzik> 17 init.h
829 2012-04-12 15:21:55 <jgarzik> 13 irc.h
830 2012-04-12 15:21:58 <jgarzik> that's a bit silly
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834 2012-04-12 15:29:43 <gavinandresen> jgarzik : ?
835 2012-04-12 15:29:50 <gavinandresen> what build tree?
836 2012-04-12 15:30:43 <sipa> i suppose he means the source tree
837 2012-04-12 15:31:13 <gavinandresen> oh, init.h is only 17 lines long, not that there are 17 little init.h's
838 2012-04-12 15:31:29 <sipa> haha
839 2012-04-12 15:31:40 <gavinandresen> (I thought maybe the auto-generate-includes was doing something wacky)
840 2012-04-12 15:31:47 <gavinandresen> auto-generate-depends....
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842 2012-04-12 15:37:52 <MasterChief> .
843 2012-04-12 15:38:49 MasterChief is now known as MC1984
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850 2012-04-12 16:01:36 <TD> good afternoon
851 2012-04-12 16:02:17 underscor has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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854 2012-04-12 16:08:53 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: a new file for 3 lines of code (irc.h) seems like overkill
855 2012-04-12 16:10:02 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: obviously not a big deal, just... odd
856 2012-04-12 16:10:25 RazielZ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
857 2012-04-12 16:11:33 * jgarzik is really hoping bitcoin does not follow the "pedantic C++" route of two files for every class. There is a middle ground between way-too-big files (old bitcoin) and too-many-files (pedantic C++)
858 2012-04-12 16:12:29 <alephozee> i think we should have 2 files for every 5 lines of code
859 2012-04-12 16:12:31 <alephozee> :/
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866 2012-04-12 16:23:08 <TD> oh, pubsub is going away?
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868 2012-04-12 16:25:55 <gavinandresen> it is dead code right now. dead code belongs in git history....
869 2012-04-12 16:26:37 <[Tycho]> gavinandresen: hello.
870 2012-04-12 16:26:43 <gavinandresen> howdy tycho
871 2012-04-12 16:26:57 graingert has joined
872 2012-04-12 16:27:05 <[Tycho]> gavinandresen: can you give me a link to the commit that adds multisig redeeming functionality ?
873 2012-04-12 16:27:16 <[Tycho]> Can't see how to search at github...
874 2012-04-12 16:28:25 <gavinandresen> according to git blame it is commit e679ec96
875 2012-04-12 16:28:59 <TD> yeah
876 2012-04-12 16:29:18 <TD> well some of it is
877 2012-04-12 16:29:25 <TD> i thought you could actually set up pubsub topics and it'd work
878 2012-04-12 16:29:28 <TD> albiet, nobody ever tried it
879 2012-04-12 16:29:36 <TD> the ebay style gui was definitely unfinished though
880 2012-04-12 16:29:57 <[Tycho]> gavinandresen: how can I see it ?
881 2012-04-12 16:30:04 <gavinandresen> [Tycho]: the commit history is messy, though, because most of the work was done for OP_EVAL and then modified
882 2012-04-12 16:30:10 <gavinandresen> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/e679ec96
883 2012-04-12 16:30:23 <[Tycho]> Thanks.
884 2012-04-12 16:30:37 <gavinandresen> The core code is in script.cpp, IsMine() and Solver()
885 2012-04-12 16:30:53 <[Tycho]> BTW, do you know that I successfully redeemed a P2SH TX ? :)
886 2012-04-12 16:31:50 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
887 2012-04-12 16:31:51 <gavinandresen> great-- i've been meaning to send some through the main network and see how long it takes them to get mined, just haven't gotten around to it
888 2012-04-12 16:32:41 <[Tycho]> I had to force it because now it checks the inputs for being standard too...
889 2012-04-12 16:33:56 <[Tycho]> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/7eaa56d72ef929deaf1323b18c1781b87ba203c2653a5278840b43aaa3f8586d#o1
890 2012-04-12 16:34:45 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: nice! :)
891 2012-04-12 16:34:49 <[Tycho]> Now I'm trying to find out how to redeem a multisig with two separate signatures.
892 2012-04-12 16:41:30 <sipa> [Tycho]: sig1 p
893 2012-04-12 16:41:39 <sipa> [Tycho]: pub1 sig1 pub2 sig2 script
894 2012-04-12 16:42:22 <[Tycho]> I was talking about the process of signing.
895 2012-04-12 16:43:03 <[Tycho]> Two receiving parties can just tell each other their signatures ?
896 2012-04-12 16:43:10 <[Tycho]> Who will broadcast ?
897 2012-04-12 16:43:59 <[Tycho]> Hm, looks like there is no difference.
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908 2012-04-12 16:57:44 <jgarzik> ugh
909 2012-04-12 16:58:11 <jgarzik> coinpy source code spread out across four-deep levels of directories
910 2012-04-12 16:59:01 erle- has quit (Quit: erle-)
911 2012-04-12 16:59:08 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
912 2012-04-12 16:59:25 <jgarzik> script stuff is in coinpy-lib/src/coinpy/model/scripts/* and coinpy-lib/src/coinpy/lib/script/* and one or two other directories
913 2012-04-12 16:59:58 <sirk390> carfull :) i'm the one who wrote it lol
914 2012-04-12 17:01:30 pusle has joined
915 2012-04-12 17:01:40 <sirk390> the idea is to remove source code dependencies.
916 2012-04-12 17:02:06 <sirk390> most directories can be copied and reused independently
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919 2012-04-12 17:10:48 <wumpus> right, related functionality should be grouped together, but is is better to have unrelated functionality in separate files
920 2012-04-12 17:17:05 <jgarzik> sirk390: it's OOP overkill when you're spreading out script code across many files -and- directories. if you're not the primary developer, who has all this code in his head already :), it is painful to try and simply _read_ and understand such code, and trace through it.
921 2012-04-12 17:17:35 <jgarzik> yes, it's nicely organized. A German would be proud :)
922 2012-04-12 17:19:53 <sirk390> yes maybe sometimes it is a little overkill, but it is not finished yet
923 2012-04-12 17:20:09 <sirk390> and it will probably never be
924 2012-04-12 17:21:05 <sirk390> but I like the idea of splitting between the model and functionality
925 2012-04-12 17:22:37 <sirk390> I could indead merge "coinpy-lib/src/coinpy/lib/vm" and "src/coinpy/lib/script" somehow
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952 2012-04-12 19:09:34 <imsaguy> http://phil.lavin.me.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/opensource-fun.png
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959 2012-04-12 19:34:29 <jm9000> BlueMatt: I got another question about connections. Is keepalive currently being utilized by clients to see if connections are stale?
960 2012-04-12 19:36:19 <t7> what does a linux user use for contraception ?
961 2012-04-12 19:37:17 <jm9000> Linux
962 2012-04-12 19:38:44 datagutt has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
963 2012-04-12 19:43:20 <jm9000> I'm pretty sure that talking about Linux will turn off a female as fast as possible. I guess abstinence isn't really contraception, but it will work better.
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967 2012-04-12 20:20:24 ghastly has joined
968 2012-04-12 20:20:56 <ghastly> are confirmations shown by the client only from other nodes the client is connectected to?
969 2012-04-12 20:22:14 capiscuas has quit (Quit: Leaving)
970 2012-04-12 20:24:02 <TuxBlackEdo> confirmations is the number of blocks that your transaction has been included in
971 2012-04-12 20:24:43 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: dooglus opened pull request 1084 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1084>
972 2012-04-12 20:27:52 <TuxBlackEdo> rather, confirmations is the number of blocks that have been built upon the block that includes your transaction
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975 2012-04-12 20:30:55 <ghastly> TuxBlackEdo: Is this because the merkle root is included in newly found blocks?
976 2012-04-12 20:31:14 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
977 2012-04-12 20:31:44 <TuxBlackEdo> well every new block contains a hash for the previous root
978 2012-04-12 20:32:49 <TuxBlackEdo> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block <- explains it better then i could
979 2012-04-12 20:33:32 <TuxBlackEdo> previous block*
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982 2012-04-12 20:39:24 <BlueMatt> heh, wtf? the spacex ceo was on the daily show...
983 2012-04-12 20:39:43 <BlueMatt> also, didnt realize he founded spacex from his profits from founding paypal...
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989 2012-04-12 20:45:23 <ghastly> how does confirmation prevent double spending?
990 2012-04-12 20:45:49 <BlueMatt> it becomes hard to reverse the transaction with a second spend
991 2012-04-12 20:46:08 <BlueMatt> and thus you can trust that after its confirmed, no one will be able to reverse the tx with a double spend
992 2012-04-12 20:46:23 <BlueMatt> in terms of directly preventing double spends, it doesnt, really...everyone does that
993 2012-04-12 20:46:31 <BlueMatt> by checking every block they receive against double spends
994 2012-04-12 20:46:59 <BlueMatt> and you assume that no one is going to mine double spends because they would be wasting a /lot/ of cpu power
995 2012-04-12 20:47:19 cdecker has joined
996 2012-04-12 20:47:21 <gmaxwell> ghastly: comfirmation provides a total order of all transactions. Once you know the order of transactions you can validate for yourself that there are no double spends.
997 2012-04-12 20:47:37 <BlueMatt> ...or that
998 2012-04-12 20:48:09 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: thats a big misleading sounding. "you assume" sounds like you'll get tricked if they do. :) (No one would be tricked, because the software checks and rejects blocks that do)
999 2012-04-12 20:48:13 <gmaxwell> s/big/bit/
1000 2012-04-12 20:48:22 <BlueMatt> well, ok, yea
1001 2012-04-12 20:48:24 <ELT> i think there should be a simple wiki version of the current wiki
1002 2012-04-12 20:48:38 <BlueMatt> ELT: contributions welcome ;)
1003 2012-04-12 20:49:01 <ELT> ya, just gotta compile it and make sure its concise before i add anything
1004 2012-04-12 20:49:24 * BlueMatt is never good at explaining technical concepts...
1005 2012-04-12 20:49:39 <ELT> i explain using food concepts
1006 2012-04-12 20:49:42 <BlueMatt> (in response to gmaxwell)
1007 2012-04-12 20:49:56 <ELT> although not sure how that would go over on the wiki
1008 2012-04-12 20:50:08 <BlueMatt> food...interesting
1009 2012-04-12 20:50:58 <ELT> ya described the cpu pipeline as a restaurant ticket line and the kitchen as the processor
1010 2012-04-12 20:51:17 <BlueMatt> heh, sounds...close
1011 2012-04-12 20:51:25 <ELT> its close enough really
1012 2012-04-12 20:51:30 <BlueMatt> yea, by far
1013 2012-04-12 20:51:49 <ELT> but for bitcoin might be a challenge lol
1014 2012-04-12 20:52:00 <BlueMatt> yea...
1015 2012-04-12 20:52:40 <ELT> The pie represents the bitcoin economy, it is delicious, so eat the pie, don't question what or how it was made.
1016 2012-04-12 20:53:20 <BlueMatt> heh, perfect
1017 2012-04-12 20:53:34 Joric has joined
1018 2012-04-12 20:53:51 <ELT> well now im hungry
1019 2012-04-12 20:53:54 Diapolo has joined
1020 2012-04-12 20:54:01 <BlueMatt> same
1021 2012-04-12 20:54:10 <ghastly> is satoshi an organization?
1022 2012-04-12 20:54:18 <BlueMatt> no one knows
1023 2012-04-12 20:54:37 <copumpkin> I'm pretty sure satoshi knows
1024 2012-04-12 20:54:44 <ghastly> bitcoin just looks too well designed to be made by one person.
1025 2012-04-12 20:54:56 <ELT> i doubt that copumpkin
1026 2012-04-12 20:54:58 <copumpkin> hey, there's that bug in that opcode
1027 2012-04-12 20:55:04 <ghastly> i mean, the whitepaper.
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1029 2012-04-12 20:56:47 <jm9000> BlueMatt: Is keepalive currently being utilized by clients to see if connections are stale?
1030 2012-04-12 20:56:58 <ELT> should hire the csi people and find satoshi's reflection in the pdf imprinted off his monitor while he wrote it
1031 2012-04-12 20:57:04 <BlueMatt> what kind of clients, also, why tag me?
1032 2012-04-12 20:57:17 <BlueMatt> ELT: oh how I wish that could work...
1033 2012-04-12 20:57:34 <ELT> i don't cause i've written some papers in not so clothed moods
1034 2012-04-12 20:57:44 <BlueMatt> heh
1035 2012-04-12 20:58:21 <jm9000> Speaking more generally, but having desktop and mobile clients in mind. Because you know everything.
1036 2012-04-12 20:58:33 <BlueMatt> uhhh...yea...okkk
1037 2012-04-12 20:58:41 <BlueMatt> clients of what?
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1039 2012-04-12 20:58:55 <BlueMatt> bitcoin-> rpc? no, other stuff? keepalive???
1040 2012-04-12 20:59:08 <BlueMatt> http? well, what does that gave to do with bitcoin
1041 2012-04-12 20:59:12 <jm9000> Yeah, I guess I was a little vague there.
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1043 2012-04-12 20:59:53 <jm9000> I'm talking about the P2 connections between clients.
1044 2012-04-12 20:59:58 <jm9000> P2P
1045 2012-04-12 21:00:49 <jm9000> The change to add a nonce to the ping reply has been tumbling around in my head for a while.
1046 2012-04-12 21:00:50 <BlueMatt> we dont ever kill connections, so I dont know what you mean by keepalive...
1047 2012-04-12 21:01:14 <BlueMatt> we dont bother to do any checks on connections aside from what tcp does and basic timeouts
1048 2012-04-12 21:01:17 <BlueMatt> iirc
1049 2012-04-12 21:01:37 <jm9000> Yes, I was talking about the TCP keep alive.
1050 2012-04-12 21:02:02 <BlueMatt> we dont manage that, the os does...
1051 2012-04-12 21:02:16 <BlueMatt> so, yes its used
1052 2012-04-12 21:02:26 <BlueMatt> the os will tell us if the tcp connection times out according to its timeout
1053 2012-04-12 21:03:34 <jm9000> The ping-pong request still seems redundant to me. If TCP will tell you if the connection is stale, then you only need to know if the client is busy. Why do a ping-pong request when you could just make the request out right?
1054 2012-04-12 21:04:05 <BlueMatt> we arent able to see what the results of tcp keepalives are
1055 2012-04-12 21:04:45 <BlueMatt> nor can we control them
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1057 2012-04-12 21:05:18 <BlueMatt> and they also dont tell us if the bitcoin node is slow (if we do do all the work to do them manually)
1058 2012-04-12 21:06:03 <BlueMatt> because the os responds to those, not the bitcoin node
1059 2012-04-12 21:06:05 enquirer has quit (Quit: back soon)
1060 2012-04-12 21:06:16 <BlueMatt> s/slow/busy/
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1062 2012-04-12 21:07:14 <jm9000> Busy nodes aside, can't it be assumed that the connection is open? Wouldn't the connection be dropped by the OS if it was stale?
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1064 2012-04-12 21:07:52 <BlueMatt> in a normal case, its usually safe, the primary motivation for the ping/pong stuff is for mobile
1065 2012-04-12 21:07:58 <BlueMatt> and there connections get...tricky
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1067 2012-04-12 21:09:54 <BlueMatt> and, yea the os will still drop the connection if its stale, but it takes a while to timeout
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1074 2012-04-12 21:10:17 <BlueMatt> and if you are sitting around sending requests to a connection before it times out you are wasting your time
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1086 2012-04-12 21:12:22 <ghastly> will there come a time when blocks are too difficult to make?
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1090 2012-04-12 21:12:39 <BlueMatt> the difficulty adjusts to keep them generated at ~constant time
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1097 2012-04-12 21:13:24 <ghastly> another question, what will be the motivation for block generation when all 21million coins are mined?
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1101 2012-04-12 21:13:35 <BlueMatt> transaction fees
1102 2012-04-12 21:13:38 <BlueMatt> (are paid to miners)
1103 2012-04-12 21:13:45 <Diablo-D3> ghastly: magic and goodwill
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1105 2012-04-12 21:13:58 <BlueMatt> but the transaction fees @ 21mill gets...complicated
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1107 2012-04-12 21:14:19 <Diablo-D3> I expect by then, in the year 2100, all disease will be cured, death will be a figment of the past
1108 2012-04-12 21:14:22 <BlueMatt> the motivations behind transaction fees and miners is complicated at that point
1109 2012-04-12 21:14:24 <Diapolo> I never understood, why the fees are not obligatory btw.
1110 2012-04-12 21:14:27 <Diablo-D3> and we'll be traveling the stars
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1113 2012-04-12 21:14:33 <Diablo-D3> Diapolo: they "are"
1114 2012-04-12 21:14:38 <BlueMatt> Diapolo: free market?
1115 2012-04-12 21:14:47 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin typically sorts by fee
1116 2012-04-12 21:14:52 <ghastly> or we may have destroyed ourselves by 2100
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1119 2012-04-12 21:14:59 <Diablo-D3> if a block becomes full, only the most profitable tx go in
1120 2012-04-12 21:15:15 * Diablo-D3 is glossing over the actual math that handles that
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1125 2012-04-12 21:15:50 <Diapolo> So not all fees for tx that get in a block are summed and distributed to the nodes that process the tx?
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1128 2012-04-12 21:16:08 <BlueMatt> only the miners
1129 2012-04-12 21:16:12 <Diablo-D3> Diapolo: no? its distributed to _the_ miner
1130 2012-04-12 21:16:20 <Diablo-D3> pools are the only way to split up rewards
1131 2012-04-12 21:16:23 <BlueMatt> tx fees are counted no differently than the 50 btc
1132 2012-04-12 21:16:26 <Diapolo> that was what I meant sorry
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1135 2012-04-12 21:16:44 <ghastly> so each block that is generated is "saved" with the transactions made after the previous block was found?
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1137 2012-04-12 21:16:58 <BlueMatt> thats the point of blocks
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1139 2012-04-12 21:17:02 <BlueMatt> they contain a list of txes
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1141 2012-04-12 21:18:05 <Diapolo> I had the idea, that simply running a node, who holds the chain and answers to requests and thus helps the network could get some of the tx fees.
1142 2012-04-12 21:18:21 <Diablo-D3> nope
1143 2012-04-12 21:18:25 <Diablo-D3> because that takes zero work
1144 2012-04-12 21:18:39 <Diablo-D3> and eventually only big mining companies will run full clients
1145 2012-04-12 21:18:48 * ghastly understands now
1146 2012-04-12 21:18:57 <Diablo-D3> ie, governments, banks, the amazon/walmarts, etc
1147 2012-04-12 21:18:57 <pjorrit> a bit more than zero, but there's tons of competition
1148 2012-04-12 21:20:22 <Diapolo> Btw. what brings the future in terms of the blockchain? It will grow very large I think ^^.
1149 2012-04-12 21:21:14 <Diapolo> more users, more tx, more coins ... more space needed for the BDB
1150 2012-04-12 21:22:44 <Diablo-D3> Diapolo: no
1151 2012-04-12 21:22:50 <Diablo-D3> eventually people will use bitcoin banks
1152 2012-04-12 21:23:05 <Diablo-D3> and the banks themselves will settle what they owe to each other more regularly
1153 2012-04-12 21:23:18 <Diapolo> big datacenters store the chain? sth. like that?
1154 2012-04-12 21:23:30 <Diablo-D3> thats not what I mean
1155 2012-04-12 21:23:42 <Diablo-D3> the blockchain wont grow if theres only a few hundred tx a day
1156 2012-04-12 21:23:56 <Diablo-D3> it WILL if theres millions or billions
1157 2012-04-12 21:24:46 <ghastly> how is the network kept from segmenting?
1158 2012-04-12 21:25:13 <Diablo-D3> ghastly: its not
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1160 2012-04-12 21:25:31 <Diablo-D3> but each node basically belongs to a network wide quorum, and they follow the longest chain
1161 2012-04-12 21:25:31 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1162 2012-04-12 21:25:37 <Diablo-D3> so if the chain forks, they follow the longest branch
1163 2012-04-12 21:25:56 <Diapolo> did that happen in the past?
1164 2012-04-12 21:26:05 <Diablo-D3> what, a massive split? once
1165 2012-04-12 21:26:14 <ghastly> when forks are discarded, are some payments reversed?
1166 2012-04-12 21:26:20 <Diablo-D3> ended up needing to be fixed with a one time rollback
1167 2012-04-12 21:26:26 <helo> ghastly: not in practice, but it is possible
1168 2012-04-12 21:26:27 <Diablo-D3> ghastly: not reversed: they never happened.
1169 2012-04-12 21:26:45 <Diablo-D3> and you need a fork that is over 6 blocks to double spend coins
1170 2012-04-12 21:27:01 <Diablo-D3> which is very goddamned impossible
1171 2012-04-12 21:27:34 <Diapolo> Diablo-D3: When did that happen in the beginning? Perhaps speaking in client version ;)?
1172 2012-04-12 21:27:56 <Diablo-D3> Diapolo: oh, like a year ago
1173 2012-04-12 21:28:05 <Diablo-D3> I forget why it happened though
1174 2012-04-12 21:28:10 Joric has joined
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1176 2012-04-12 21:28:10 Joric has joined
1177 2012-04-12 21:28:16 <Diablo-D3> ask sipa or gmaxwell
1178 2012-04-12 21:29:43 Joric_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1179 2012-04-12 21:30:35 <Diapolo> this should be in the books or in the Wiki ^^
1180 2012-04-12 21:30:40 <BlueMatt> it is
1181 2012-04-12 21:31:05 <Diablo-D3> it is
1182 2012-04-12 21:31:37 * BlueMatt cant find the page, its something like issues/events/etc
1183 2012-04-12 21:32:10 <gmaxwell> Incidents
1184 2012-04-12 21:32:21 <gmaxwell> But thats not a normal thing, it was a result of fixing a bug.
1185 2012-04-12 21:32:32 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1186 2012-04-12 21:32:36 <Diablo-D3> yeah
1187 2012-04-12 21:32:44 <Diablo-D3> its a one time thing as far as Im concerned
1188 2012-04-12 21:33:00 <gmaxwell> I'm not actually sure what the real question was above. The longest chain rule is in effect and there is forking happening every day.
1189 2012-04-12 21:33:17 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: what happens if theres a fork
1190 2012-04-12 21:33:19 <gmaxwell> But forks of longer lengths become exponentially less likely.
1191 2012-04-12 21:33:38 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: the longest chain wins eventually.
1192 2012-04-12 21:33:39 <Diablo-D3> I said if the fork is less than 6 blocks, theres nothing to worry about, you cant accidently get double spended on
1193 2012-04-12 21:33:57 <Diablo-D3> and I think the longest dead chain is 4 (after the incident, anyways)
1194 2012-04-12 21:34:11 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: only if you're waiting 6 blocks for all your confirmations.
1195 2012-04-12 21:34:18 <Diapolo> I was looking for the in german "Super GAU" in the history ... the biggest incident security wise.
1196 2012-04-12 21:34:22 <gmaxwell> Thats also a special case.
1197 2012-04-12 21:34:46 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: well yes
1198 2012-04-12 21:34:52 <Diablo-D3> if you're waiting less, you're a dumbass
1199 2012-04-12 21:35:08 <gmaxwell> No, you're not. Different transactions have different risks.
1200 2012-04-12 21:35:19 <gmaxwell> Diapolo: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Incidents#Value_overflow
1201 2012-04-12 21:35:47 <Diapolo> thanks :) reading...
1202 2012-04-12 21:36:54 <Diapolo> 184 billion bitcoins that would lower the value a bit ^^
1203 2012-04-12 21:39:15 <Diapolo> Were there any exploits in the client code that could be or were used for remote-code-exec?
1204 2012-04-12 21:39:37 <BlueMatt> none that anyone knows of afaik
1205 2012-04-12 21:40:43 BCBot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1206 2012-04-12 21:41:08 <Diapolo> I'm a bit afraid I must admit ...
1207 2012-04-12 21:41:20 Joric has joined
1208 2012-04-12 21:41:20 <gmaxwell> Afraid of what?
1209 2012-04-12 21:41:20 Joric has quit (Changing host)
1210 2012-04-12 21:41:20 Joric has joined
1211 2012-04-12 21:41:33 <Diapolo> that there are exploitable parts in it
1212 2012-04-12 21:41:36 <BlueMatt> thats why we have more than one client
1213 2012-04-12 21:42:06 <Diapolo> not in terms of network or BC security but client / user security
1214 2012-04-12 21:42:21 <gmaxwell> Diapolo: it's been quite extensively audited. It mostly makes use of safe types. All the threats implement their own stack randomization, in addition to the hardened complilation.
1215 2012-04-12 21:42:44 <BlueMatt> well yea, and Im afraid my browser has a vulnerability
1216 2012-04-12 21:42:45 <BlueMatt> but...
1217 2012-04-12 21:42:48 <gmaxwell> I think bitcoin is likely significantly better off in that respect than most software you run.
1218 2012-04-12 21:42:49 <ELT> people use vulnerable stuff in critical situations still now
1219 2012-04-12 21:43:03 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: pfft, i know every browser installed on this box has at least one
1220 2012-04-12 21:43:15 <BlueMatt> well, yea
1221 2012-04-12 21:43:21 caedes has joined
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1223 2012-04-12 21:43:21 caedes has joined
1224 2012-04-12 21:43:36 <Diapolo> that was no offense only a sorrow :)
1225 2012-04-12 21:43:55 <gmaxwell> s/threats/threads/
1226 2012-04-12 21:44:43 <jrmithdobbs> Diapolo: there could be some very weird very hard to trigger remote code exec issues but the way the clients' structured it's not likely that there's any low hanging fruit
1227 2012-04-12 21:45:29 <BlueMatt> "New Microsoft subsidiary formed to engage with open source community" anyone else think that represents a fundamental misunderstanding of how open source works at microsoft?
1228 2012-04-12 21:45:45 <BlueMatt> s/works at/works, at/
1229 2012-04-12 21:45:53 <Diapolo> I have buffer-overflows or perhaps casting problems in my mind, as the compiler throws quite a few warnings if some warnings get re-enabled, but I'm no security expert.
1230 2012-04-12 21:45:59 <_W_> BlueMatt, in parts of Microsoft, yes
1231 2012-04-12 21:46:11 <ghastly> interesting article: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contingency_plans
1232 2012-04-12 21:46:12 <Diapolo> Only wanted to hear what you think.
1233 2012-04-12 21:46:32 <BlueMatt> since when do we have Contingency Plans?
1234 2012-04-12 21:46:43 <gmaxwell> Diapolo: bitcoin runs clean through clang's static analysis. What warnings are you talking about?
1235 2012-04-12 21:47:12 <BlueMatt> _W_: I mean the decision to make a subsidiary specifically to deal with "the" oss community
1236 2012-04-12 21:47:20 <Diapolo> I guess I removed -Wno-sign-compare
1237 2012-04-12 21:47:30 <_W_> BlueMatt, yes, I got it
1238 2012-04-12 21:47:36 <jm9000> Can someone point me to the page that describes the actions taken when a client is too busy to fulfill a request?
1239 2012-04-12 21:47:46 <BlueMatt> jm9000: it queues it
1240 2012-04-12 21:47:52 <_W_> thing is, Microsoft is _huge_. There are parts of it that have no problem understanding how open source works
1241 2012-04-12 21:48:02 sirk390 has joined
1242 2012-04-12 21:48:02 <BlueMatt> _W_: well, yea
1243 2012-04-12 21:48:05 BCBot has joined
1244 2012-04-12 21:48:06 <jrmithdobbs> Diapolo: that's a bunch of useless warnings in the case of bitcoin where everything should be unsigned but gets passed into sys calls that expect signed chars, it's meh
1245 2012-04-12 21:48:19 <BlueMatt> _W_: then I guess I mean it represents a fundamental misunderstanding of how oss works at the top
1246 2012-04-12 21:48:19 <Diapolo> alright then
1247 2012-04-12 21:48:56 <Diapolo> What about that stack-protection thing on Windows, how much "safer" would this make the client really?
1248 2012-04-12 21:49:01 sirk390 has quit (Client Quit)
1249 2012-04-12 21:49:30 sethman895 has joined
1250 2012-04-12 21:49:33 <BlueMatt> we still do stack randomization
1251 2012-04-12 21:49:45 <BlueMatt> but, yea stack protection would be nice
1252 2012-04-12 21:50:03 <Diapolo> you mean IMPLEMENT_RANDOMIZE_STACK?
1253 2012-04-12 21:50:23 <BlueMatt> yea
1254 2012-04-12 21:50:40 <jm9000> In terms of creating a "safer" client, would be a language like Java be more suited?
1255 2012-04-12 21:50:48 <Diapolo> I used that for my IPC work too ... at least I learned a lot :D.
1256 2012-04-12 21:51:12 <Diapolo> A JavaRE is much mor unsafe I would say ^^ at least on Windows.
1257 2012-04-12 21:51:18 <BlueMatt> bitcoin is pretty safe, but, yea a language like java tends to be "safer" (all the vulns in the jvm aside...)
1258 2012-04-12 21:52:02 <Diapolo> in terms of the sandbox idea you mean?
1259 2012-04-12 21:52:20 <Diapolo> or the lang in general?
1260 2012-04-12 21:52:21 <BlueMatt> yea, and java is harder to shoot yourself in the foot with
1261 2012-04-12 21:52:28 <BlueMatt> both
1262 2012-04-12 21:52:30 <jrmithdobbs> jm9000: tell the 500k mac users that java is safer
1263 2012-04-12 21:52:38 <BlueMatt> java isnt really that well "sandboxed" though
1264 2012-04-12 21:52:49 * lianj giggles
1265 2012-04-12 21:53:08 <jm9000> jrmithdobbs: Yes I heard about the flashback thing to.
1266 2012-04-12 21:53:14 <ghastly> initially, does the client only need the genesis block to build the chain?
1267 2012-04-12 21:53:24 <jrmithdobbs> jm9000: or the thousands of other exploits in java software
1268 2012-04-12 21:53:35 <ELT> do it in ADA
1269 2012-04-12 21:53:38 <Diapolo> at least we don't use any Flash HRHR
1270 2012-04-12 21:53:41 <jm9000> Didn't hear about that.
1271 2012-04-12 21:53:42 <BlueMatt> ghastly: that and a connection to someone else who has the chain
1272 2012-04-12 21:53:57 <BlueMatt> jm9000: java has a rich history of security vulnerabilities in the jvm
1273 2012-04-12 21:53:58 <Diapolo> and Genesis is hard-coded
1274 2012-04-12 21:54:15 <BlueMatt> (not quite as bad as flash, but still...)
1275 2012-04-12 21:54:19 Blitzboom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1276 2012-04-12 21:54:23 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: and invidual java apps, on the whole, tend to have horrible security track records too
1277 2012-04-12 21:54:29 <BlueMatt> well, yea
1278 2012-04-12 21:54:32 <Diapolo> I think Oracles JavaRE on Windows is more unsecure than Windows :D.
1279 2012-04-12 21:54:32 <jrmithdobbs> (since we're speaking in generalization)
1280 2012-04-12 21:54:38 Blitzboom has joined
1281 2012-04-12 21:54:38 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
1282 2012-04-12 21:54:38 Blitzboom has joined
1283 2012-04-12 21:54:44 <lianj> Diapolo: only the hash of it, or the block aswell?
1284 2012-04-12 21:54:54 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: thats like saying I think this browser is more insecure than that tv
1285 2012-04-12 21:54:58 <jrmithdobbs> lianj: just the hash is enough
1286 2012-04-12 21:55:01 <BlueMatt> Diapolo: *
1287 2012-04-12 21:55:11 <lianj> jrmithdobbs: i know ,)
1288 2012-04-12 21:55:21 <Diapolo> :-D
1289 2012-04-12 21:57:34 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1290 2012-04-12 21:57:35 random_cat has quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
1291 2012-04-12 21:58:09 <Diapolo> Another idea, is it possible to enable DEP and ASLR flags for the client? Like: http://www.ziki.com/fr/gcouprie+37899/post/enable-dep-and-aslr-with-mingw+10897502
1292 2012-04-12 22:00:04 random_cat has joined
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1294 2012-04-12 22:01:45 barmstro_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1295 2012-04-12 22:02:24 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,blocks
1296 2012-04-12 22:02:24 <gribble> 175418
1297 2012-04-12 22:02:27 barmstrong has joined
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1299 2012-04-12 22:06:53 caedes has joined
1300 2012-04-12 22:07:33 Diapolo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1301 2012-04-12 22:10:30 TD has joined
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1308 2012-04-12 22:17:52 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1309 2012-04-12 22:19:00 caedes has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
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1312 2012-04-12 22:25:22 <t7> 1 block every ten mins thats 1754180 mins since genesis
1313 2012-04-12 22:25:32 toffoo has joined
1314 2012-04-12 22:26:38 <t7> the math doesnt add up :3
1315 2012-04-12 22:26:54 <t7> because difficulty changed
1316 2012-04-12 22:27:24 <copumpkin> it should even out over time
1317 2012-04-12 22:27:40 <lianj> no, difficulty changed so it stays at about 10 minutes
1318 2012-04-12 22:27:42 <copumpkin> the difficulty change is what makes sure there is a block every 10 minutes
1319 2012-04-12 22:28:11 <copumpkin> the times leading up to difficulty increases/decreases are going to skew it a little
1320 2012-04-12 22:28:35 localhost has joined
1321 2012-04-12 22:29:47 <t7> well 1754180 mins ago was december 2008
1322 2012-04-12 22:30:33 <t7> not jan the 3rd
1323 2012-04-12 22:31:08 <t7> i guess thats because only the last 2 weeks being factored into difficulty
1324 2012-04-12 22:31:09 Joric_ is now known as Joric
1325 2012-04-12 22:33:25 CaptainDDL has joined
1326 2012-04-12 22:34:37 <graingert> t7: also there is a lower limit
1327 2012-04-12 22:34:48 <graingert> t7: in the early days blocks took longer than 10m
1328 2012-04-12 22:35:11 <gmaxwell> Oh we're finally ahead?
1329 2012-04-12 22:35:29 <graingert> ?
1330 2012-04-12 22:35:53 <gmaxwell> graingert: the limit moves the time in the opposity direction than t7 said above.
1331 2012-04-12 22:35:57 <graingert> wait that's wrong that explains the opposite error
1332 2012-04-12 22:36:06 <TuxBlackEdo> actually
1333 2012-04-12 22:36:07 <gmaxwell> We had under produced for a long time.
1334 2012-04-12 22:36:07 <TuxBlackEdo> ;;time [calc ([time %s]-([bc,blocks]*10*60))]
1335 2012-04-12 22:36:07 <gribble> 10:04 AM, December 11, 2008
1336 2012-04-12 22:36:13 <TuxBlackEdo> december 11th
1337 2012-04-12 22:36:19 <TuxBlackEdo> coincidence?
1338 2012-04-12 22:36:21 <graingert> when did it start?
1339 2012-04-12 22:36:26 <TuxBlackEdo> jan 9th
1340 2012-04-12 22:36:27 <[Tycho]> Wow, I found a block !
1341 2012-04-12 22:36:39 <graingert> [Tycho]: you operate a pool
1342 2012-04-12 22:36:44 <graingert> >.>
1343 2012-04-12 22:36:48 <graingert> of course you found a block
1344 2012-04-12 22:36:51 <gmaxwell> graingert: he's mining by hand these days, I hear.
1345 2012-04-12 22:36:59 <[Tycho]> I mean, with my own hardware.
1346 2012-04-12 22:37:00 <TuxBlackEdo> i was just about to say that
1347 2012-04-12 22:37:15 <graingert> [Tycho]: does your own hardware participate in the pool?
1348 2012-04-12 22:37:21 <[Tycho]> Yes.
1349 2012-04-12 22:37:33 <TuxBlackEdo> graingert, he doesn't mine on deepbit because of the fees
1350 2012-04-12 22:37:36 <graingert> [Tycho]: have you thought about nerfing p2pool with your hashpower
1351 2012-04-12 22:37:49 <[Tycho]> "nerfing" ?
1352 2012-04-12 22:37:59 <graingert> mining their metablock chain
1353 2012-04-12 22:38:05 <[Tycho]> What for ?
1354 2012-04-12 22:38:11 <graingert> to nerf them
1355 2012-04-12 22:38:18 <TuxBlackEdo> like a nerf gun?
1356 2012-04-12 22:38:23 <graingert> yes
1357 2012-04-12 22:38:26 <[Tycho]> I don't know what it is.
1358 2012-04-12 22:38:28 * BlueMatt thinks graingert is making up words...
1359 2012-04-12 22:38:50 <TuxBlackEdo> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ea/Maverickrev6.jpg/200px-Maverickrev6.jpg
1360 2012-04-12 22:38:55 <graingert> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerf_%28video_gaming%29
1361 2012-04-12 22:39:06 <BlueMatt> what does nerf have to do with mining
1362 2012-04-12 22:39:13 * BlueMatt knows what nerf guns are, he has one
1363 2012-04-12 22:39:35 <graingert> reduce the desirability or effectiveness of p2pool
1364 2012-04-12 22:39:41 * TuxBlackEdo shoots a nerf dart at gmaxwell's head
1365 2012-04-12 22:39:45 <graingert> nerf p2pool
1366 2012-04-12 22:40:06 <BlueMatt> s/ thinks graingert is making up words.../thinks graingert is making up new definitions for words/
1367 2012-04-12 22:40:11 * graingert reduces the desirability or effectiveness of gmaxwell's head
1368 2012-04-12 22:40:21 <jm9000> I bought the Maverick. My girlfriend did not like it, probably because I was shooting her.
1369 2012-04-12 22:40:24 <BlueMatt> dont do that, we need that brain
1370 2012-04-12 22:40:34 <TuxBlackEdo> it won't hurt him
1371 2012-04-12 22:40:36 <BlueMatt> jm9000: heh...
1372 2012-04-12 22:40:36 * graingert reduces the desirability of gmaxwell's head
1373 2012-04-12 22:40:43 <graingert> still effective
1374 2012-04-12 22:40:47 <graingert> less desirable
1375 2012-04-12 22:40:51 <BlueMatt> ok, but that still seems...mean?
1376 2012-04-12 22:40:59 <graingert> more effective
1377 2012-04-12 22:41:01 <TuxBlackEdo> not if everyone laughs
1378 2012-04-12 22:41:06 <graingert> at being less desirable
1379 2012-04-12 22:41:10 <BlueMatt> graingert: ok, well that I can get behind
1380 2012-04-12 22:41:10 <TuxBlackEdo> then it boost morale
1381 2012-04-12 22:41:32 <TuxBlackEdo> ok so back to the topic at hand
1382 2012-04-12 22:41:41 <graingert> TuxBlackEdo: nerfing p2pool?
1383 2012-04-12 22:41:41 * BlueMatt 's newegg order started as a couple of fans, now its two full computers...
1384 2012-04-12 22:41:46 Raziel_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1385 2012-04-12 22:41:54 <graingert> OMG I BOUGHT A RASPBERRY PI
1386 2012-04-12 22:41:56 <graingert> YAY
1387 2012-04-12 22:41:59 <BlueMatt> nice
1388 2012-04-12 22:42:04 <graingert> IKR
1389 2012-04-12 22:42:06 <TuxBlackEdo> how many mhash?
1390 2012-04-12 22:42:08 <graingert> £300 on ebay
1391 2012-04-12 22:42:11 * BlueMatt wishes newegg sold them so I could add a few there too
1392 2012-04-12 22:42:20 <graingert> BlueMatt: it's one per code
1393 2012-04-12 22:42:28 <graingert> BlueMatt: I'll sell you my PI
1394 2012-04-12 22:42:32 <BlueMatt> for?
1395 2012-04-12 22:42:34 <graingert> many bitcoin
1396 2012-04-12 22:42:44 <BlueMatt> that may be out of my price range...
1397 2012-04-12 22:42:50 <jm9000> We used to lave lots of Nerf guns at the jobs I had about 10 years ago. It started as one or two guns, but ended with about 20 and 0 work getting done each day.
1398 2012-04-12 22:42:52 <graingert> 22 million bitcoin
1399 2012-04-12 22:43:01 * BlueMatt goes back to play with his shiny new watercooled graphics card that arrived today
1400 2012-04-12 22:43:02 <TuxBlackEdo> ill sell you my rasberry pi for 1 mintchip
1401 2012-04-12 22:43:04 danbri has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1402 2012-04-12 22:43:10 <BlueMatt> s/play/stare at, since my computer is in another country.../
1403 2012-04-12 22:43:17 <TuxBlackEdo> BlueMatt, what kind of gfx card did you get?
1404 2012-04-12 22:43:21 <graingert> TuxBlackEdo: how many mintchip CAD is that worth?
1405 2012-04-12 22:43:26 <BlueMatt> gtx 680
1406 2012-04-12 22:43:28 <graingert> MCCAD
1407 2012-04-12 22:43:35 <BlueMatt> yea, yea not amd, but meh I dont mine anyway
1408 2012-04-12 22:43:44 <TuxBlackEdo> BlueMatt, wow I can only imagine how many bitcoins that will bring in
1409 2012-04-12 22:43:51 <BlueMatt> not many, its nvidia
1410 2012-04-12 22:43:57 <[Tycho]> Why would you need Raspberry Pi ?
1411 2012-04-12 22:43:59 <TuxBlackEdo> what games do you play?
1412 2012-04-12 22:44:03 <BlueMatt> (nvidias dont have the what is it, one op rotate?)
1413 2012-04-12 22:44:07 <BlueMatt> kills mining for them
1414 2012-04-12 22:44:13 <graingert> BlueMatt: £300 in BTC for RPI in next 14 days
1415 2012-04-12 22:44:19 <TuxBlackEdo> you play video games BlueMatt?
1416 2012-04-12 22:44:23 <jm9000> I had a water cooled system for a while. Stupid thing overheated once because the heat from the CPU caused bubbles, and the bubbles built up until it prevented the water from flowing.
1417 2012-04-12 22:44:25 <BlueMatt> graingert: I think Ill pass
1418 2012-04-12 22:44:29 <BlueMatt> TuxBlackEdo: yea
1419 2012-04-12 22:44:31 <BlueMatt> who doesnt?
1420 2012-04-12 22:44:34 <jm9000> Also it leaked INSIDE my case at one point.
1421 2012-04-12 22:44:35 <graingert> [Tycho]: why do you need a PS3?
1422 2012-04-12 22:44:37 <BlueMatt> but as to what, a bit of everything...
1423 2012-04-12 22:44:51 <graingert> [Tycho]: I bought it to hack
1424 2012-04-12 22:44:53 <TuxBlackEdo> BlueMatt, oh that's cool...
1425 2012-04-12 22:44:56 <BlueMatt> jm9000: well maybe your loop just sucked...
1426 2012-04-12 22:45:11 <jm9000> Yeah I'm pretty sure it did.
1427 2012-04-12 22:45:21 <jm9000> Even though it was a high rated kit at the time.
1428 2012-04-12 22:45:24 <[Tycho]> graingert: I don't.
1429 2012-04-12 22:45:36 <graingert> [Tycho]: surely you have things you don't need
1430 2012-04-12 22:45:40 <BlueMatt> TuxBlackEdo: on pc, mostly non-multiplayer games as I have no friends who play pc games...
1431 2012-04-12 22:45:49 <TuxBlackEdo> I can be your friend
1432 2012-04-12 22:45:54 <TuxBlackEdo> I won't even charge you
1433 2012-04-12 22:45:57 <BlueMatt> heh
1434 2012-04-12 22:46:14 <BlueMatt> well theres also the issue of me rarely paying for pc games
1435 2012-04-12 22:46:18 <BlueMatt> makes multiplayer hard...
1436 2012-04-12 22:46:29 <graingert> BlueMatt: sigh
1437 2012-04-12 22:46:40 <graingert> I rarely play PC games that I buy
1438 2012-04-12 22:46:40 * BlueMatt probably shouldnt have said that in a logged channel...
1439 2012-04-12 22:46:47 <graingert> so it makes up for it
1440 2012-04-12 22:46:58 <[Tycho]> Well, I don't need PS3 for sure, but I was surprised that there are tens of forum topics about that Pi on the bitcointalk.
1441 2012-04-12 22:47:00 <jm9000> If you have the money for two new computers, you probably can spare $30 for a game if you really wanted to.
1442 2012-04-12 22:47:01 <BlueMatt> graingert: heh, alright, keep buying games for me then
1443 2012-04-12 22:47:12 <BlueMatt> jm9000: actually, both new computers are for my parents...
1444 2012-04-12 22:47:23 <graingert> [Tycho]: Pi went viral
1445 2012-04-12 22:47:26 <BlueMatt> jm9000: well its either buy fancy new graphics cards/etc /or/ pay for games
1446 2012-04-12 22:47:36 * BlueMatt would rather play on full settings than pay for games
1447 2012-04-12 22:47:37 <graingert> [Tycho]: there are other mini linux pc that are better/cheaper it's just this one is famous
1448 2012-04-12 22:47:44 <jm9000> Games can drain a lot of time though. I lost half my childhood to them. Wish I could get that back.
1449 2012-04-12 22:47:47 <graingert> [Tycho]: as such it is /supported/ by fedora
1450 2012-04-12 22:47:53 <BlueMatt> jm9000: meh
1451 2012-04-12 22:47:58 <graingert> [Tycho]: all other boxes are a pain to get custom code working on
1452 2012-04-12 22:48:11 <[Tycho]> I mean that ARM and MIPS are funny and sometimes efficient for portable applications, but at home Intel Atom is just enough.
1453 2012-04-12 22:48:12 <graingert> [Tycho]: the demand is what makes it useful
1454 2012-04-12 22:48:24 <[Tycho]> I hope it's supported by your lunix things too.
1455 2012-04-12 22:48:34 <graingert> Lunix?
1456 2012-04-12 22:49:07 <Diablo-D3> right click on the github logo
1457 2012-04-12 22:49:14 <[Tycho]> That fedora
1458 2012-04-12 22:49:40 <jm9000> Tribes: Ascend is in free beta right now. I've been playing that for a couple weeks.
1459 2012-04-12 22:49:40 <graingert> Diablo-D3: nice
1460 2012-04-12 22:50:17 <t7> is anyo0ne selling raspberry pi yet?
1461 2012-04-12 22:50:38 <TuxBlackEdo> i just checked ebay
1462 2012-04-12 22:50:39 <TuxBlackEdo> no
1463 2012-04-12 22:50:42 <graingert> t7: I am
1464 2012-04-12 22:50:43 <[Tycho]> There are also funny x86 devices too.
1465 2012-04-12 22:50:57 <BlueMatt> since my first newegg order, Ive spent, on average $1.85/day on newegg :o
1466 2012-04-12 22:51:00 <t7> how much?
1467 2012-04-12 22:51:00 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@pool-71-252-154-11.dllstx.fios.verizon.net|brwyatt
1468 2012-04-12 22:51:06 <[Tycho]> Like Vortex86, which is about 5x8 cm. in sizr
1469 2012-04-12 22:51:19 danbri has joined
1470 2012-04-12 22:53:00 <jm9000> BlueMatt: Did you get in on the 50% Google Offer for Newegg a couple months back?
1471 2012-04-12 22:53:07 <BlueMatt> jm9000: no :(
1472 2012-04-12 22:53:35 minimoose has joined
1473 2012-04-12 22:56:26 <t7> i think im gonna have to write my webserver in C to get it to fit in 256 of ram
1474 2012-04-12 22:56:27 dr_win has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1475 2012-04-12 22:57:08 <BlueMatt> why are you writing a webserver?
1476 2012-04-12 22:57:12 * BlueMatt slaps t7
1477 2012-04-12 22:57:33 <t7> for my website
1478 2012-04-12 22:57:37 * BlueMatt slaps t7
1479 2012-04-12 22:57:44 <BlueMatt> thats like writing your own crypto
1480 2012-04-12 22:57:48 <t7> no one has written a webframework in c
1481 2012-04-12 22:57:49 <BlueMatt> ok, maybe not quite as bad, but still
1482 2012-04-12 22:58:00 * BlueMatt slaps t7
1483 2012-04-12 22:58:02 <t7> il just run in a chroot jail
1484 2012-04-12 22:58:06 <t7> safe as houses
1485 2012-04-12 22:58:09 <BlueMatt> ...
1486 2012-04-12 22:58:14 <BlueMatt> uhh...yea...
1487 2012-04-12 22:58:34 <t7> and not store any data i guess
1488 2012-04-12 22:58:40 <t7> lololol
1489 2012-04-12 22:58:48 <BlueMatt> read only drive
1490 2012-04-12 23:02:20 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1491 2012-04-12 23:03:32 barmstrong has joined
1492 2012-04-12 23:09:55 <sipa> t7: lighttpd?
1493 2012-04-12 23:10:18 <t7> yeah but i need more than static files
1494 2012-04-12 23:10:26 <t7> that would make for a boring site
1495 2012-04-12 23:11:30 <BlueMatt> good cgi + lighttpd?
1496 2012-04-12 23:11:47 <sipa> yesod?
1497 2012-04-12 23:12:11 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1498 2012-04-12 23:12:14 <gjs278> engine ex
1499 2012-04-12 23:12:15 <t7> allthough my current site written with snap runs in very little memory
1500 2012-04-12 23:12:26 <t7> im sccared it could balloon at any second
1501 2012-04-12 23:12:37 * sipa DoSses t7
1502 2012-04-12 23:12:46 <t7> its hosted on linode :)
1503 2012-04-12 23:13:05 <t7> http://tomcumming.co.uk/
1504 2012-04-12 23:13:10 <t7> do your worst
1505 2012-04-12 23:13:24 <BlueMatt> how can that not be static?
1506 2012-04-12 23:13:31 <BlueMatt> static + cronjob to generate content
1507 2012-04-12 23:13:46 <Joric> nice site!
1508 2012-04-12 23:13:47 <t7> yeah but i have login stuff on there
1509 2012-04-12 23:13:54 <t7> just commented out for now
1510 2012-04-12 23:14:02 <t7> send me btc!
1511 2012-04-12 23:14:04 <BlueMatt> you can have static with http login
1512 2012-04-12 23:14:11 <t7> watch the counter go up
1513 2012-04-12 23:15:16 midnightmagic has joined
1514 2012-04-12 23:15:41 rdponticelli has joined
1515 2012-04-12 23:17:57 ghastly has quit ()
1516 2012-04-12 23:19:22 <t7> i have a very regular increase in cpu usage on the hour, every hour
1517 2012-04-12 23:19:32 <t7> for like 20 mins
1518 2012-04-12 23:19:46 <t7> every 2 hours*
1519 2012-04-12 23:24:46 <gavinandresen> t7: be a Real Man, write it in assembler like Steve Gibson
1520 2012-04-12 23:24:58 <gavinandresen> (your web site, that is)
1521 2012-04-12 23:25:18 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen on after 5pm...wow
1522 2012-04-12 23:25:20 [Tycho]_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1523 2012-04-12 23:25:29 <BlueMatt> also, whats up gavinandresen, havent seen you in a long time
1524 2012-04-12 23:25:36 <gavinandresen> just about to disappear, have to pick up my son from baseball practice...
1525 2012-04-12 23:25:48 <BlueMatt> ah, enjoy
1526 2012-04-12 23:26:03 <t7> C is liek the universal assembly language
1527 2012-04-12 23:26:13 <BlueMatt> not really...
1528 2012-04-12 23:26:31 <gavinandresen> I agree with t7
1529 2012-04-12 23:26:34 <BlueMatt> writing in c and writing in assembly is a world apart difficulty wise
1530 2012-04-12 23:26:44 <gavinandresen> ... and I agree with matt
1531 2012-04-12 23:26:48 <t7> i agree with you there
1532 2012-04-12 23:26:54 <BlueMatt> functionalitywise maybe though
1533 2012-04-12 23:27:19 <BlueMatt> so I guess we agree :)
1534 2012-04-12 23:27:53 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
1535 2012-04-12 23:27:58 Joric_ has joined
1536 2012-04-12 23:27:58 Joric_ has quit (Changing host)
1537 2012-04-12 23:27:58 Joric_ has joined
1538 2012-04-12 23:29:48 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1539 2012-04-12 23:31:01 * BlueMatt discovered bitcoin thanks to steve gibson actually
1540 2012-04-12 23:31:20 <BlueMatt> fun fact of the day ^
1541 2012-04-12 23:32:19 <sipa> when was that?
1542 2012-04-12 23:32:35 <BlueMatt> http://twit.tv/sn287
1543 2012-04-12 23:32:45 <BlueMatt> feb 9 2011
1544 2012-04-12 23:33:00 <BlueMatt> well got into bitcoin because of that, discovered it on /. iirc
1545 2012-04-12 23:33:59 <Diablo-D3> fucking steve gibson
1546 2012-04-12 23:34:02 <Diablo-D3> you know whats hilarious?
1547 2012-04-12 23:34:08 <BlueMatt> steve gibson?
1548 2012-04-12 23:34:19 <Diablo-D3> I was making fun of that douchebag for trying to jumping on the bitcoin bandwaggon
1549 2012-04-12 23:34:55 <BlueMatt> everyone was at the time, or, most people missed it until a few months later
1550 2012-04-12 23:35:02 <BlueMatt> gibson was actually earlier than most...
1551 2012-04-12 23:35:03 copumpkin has joined
1552 2012-04-12 23:35:28 <Diablo-D3> he picked up on it because of shit like "crypto" and "pirates" and "hackers" and "drugs" and other shit
1553 2012-04-12 23:35:39 <Diablo-D3> its like hes living in his own private cyberpunk novel
1554 2012-04-12 23:36:13 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1555 2012-04-12 23:36:14 <midnightmagic> i wonder if he would be sad to see people talking about him like that.
1556 2012-04-12 23:36:25 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: I really woundnt be surprised if thats how he sees the world...
1557 2012-04-12 23:36:43 * BlueMatt wonders if hes here right now
1558 2012-04-12 23:36:45 <BlueMatt> lurking...
1559 2012-04-12 23:36:47 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: watch his shit show sometime
1560 2012-04-12 23:36:53 <Diablo-D3> its EXACTLY how he lives his life
1561 2012-04-12 23:37:02 <[Tycho]> May be it was William Gibson &
1562 2012-04-12 23:37:03 <[Tycho]> ?
1563 2012-04-12 23:37:11 <midnightmagic> i saw a few episodes, he's been.. exaggerating about stuff for quite some time. do you recall watching him go on about assembly?
1564 2012-04-12 23:37:17 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: no, and Im pretty sure they're not related either
1565 2012-04-12 23:37:28 <Diablo-D3> although it'd be fucking hilarious if they were distant cousins
1566 2012-04-12 23:37:55 <[Tycho]> William Gibson is somehow related to cyberpunk and so on.
1567 2012-04-12 23:38:04 <BlueMatt> he wrote neuromancer...
1568 2012-04-12 23:38:05 <Diablo-D3> and for the record gibsons, the kind you hack, are named after william, not douchebag mcfucknuts
1569 2012-04-12 23:38:08 <BlueMatt> (and others)
1570 2012-04-12 23:38:14 <midnightmagic> william gibson called me a batshit insane asshole one time. all I did is ask for a picture beside him.
1571 2012-04-12 23:38:23 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: daaaamn
1572 2012-04-12 23:38:25 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: sounds like him
1573 2012-04-12 23:38:30 <Diablo-D3> and coming from him, thats a complement
1574 2012-04-12 23:38:32 caedes has joined
1575 2012-04-12 23:38:34 <midnightmagic> i was crushed.
1576 2012-04-12 23:38:37 <BlueMatt> authors...
1577 2012-04-12 23:38:43 <midnightmagic> until i started following his twitter feed lol
1578 2012-04-12 23:38:57 <t7> scriptsig is the first part of a script
1579 2012-04-12 23:39:10 <t7> why?
1580 2012-04-12 23:39:15 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: yeah, I realised he says that to a lot of people. Except Americans. Americans he sucks up to.
1581 2012-04-12 23:39:38 Joric has joined
1582 2012-04-12 23:39:38 Joric has quit (Changing host)
1583 2012-04-12 23:39:38 Joric has joined
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1585 2012-04-12 23:41:41 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
1586 2012-04-12 23:41:46 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@pool-71-252-154-11.dllstx.fios.verizon.net|brwyatt
1587 2012-04-12 23:42:36 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
1588 2012-04-12 23:52:37 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1589 2012-04-12 23:54:48 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: dooglus opened issue 1085 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1085>
1590 2012-04-12 23:59:41 midnightmagic has quit (Quit: quit)